1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 28 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 662       Contents:+ Re: (OT) Can We Turn Down the Flames a Bit? P 4872           Would you like to lose weight while you sleep?                  1  C++ compiler and linker warnings$ Re: C++ compiler and linker warnings$ Re: C++ compiler and linker warnings Careful with Mozilla 0.9.6 Re: Careful with Mozilla 0.9.6 Re: Careful with Mozilla 0.9.6P Compaq OpenVMS and Proliant Clusters deliver the lowest Total Cost of Ownership , Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer), Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer), Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer), Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer), Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer), Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer), Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? ) FREE USA CALLS NOW! - DIAL (800) 306 5227 0 Future of Alpha [was Re: Special IPF-Inside ...] Future of VMS ? 4 Re: Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLT+ Re: Graphics cntrlr not recognized by 5.5-2 + Re: Graphics cntrlr not recognized by 5.5-2 ! Re: logical names novice question 6 Re: New product allows VMS to become part of a PC Lan!D New York City meeting - Porting OpenVMS to Itanium - you are invitedP re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon        Knows CompaqP re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows        CompaqP re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows        CompaqP Re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows        Compaq/ Re: Obtaining System Serial Number via Software @ Offtopic: cross platform portability tools - a study of autoconf6 onExchange announces OpenVMS-based Financial solutions; Open Source support levels, was: Re: OSU Webserver problems / Re: OpenVMS and minicopy... a note of thanks...  Re: OpenVMS book in bookstores- Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion - Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion - Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion - Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion - Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion * OT: Andrew Harrison : Alive & Still At SUN Re: PGP for OpenVMS ) Problem fseeking a 4.2 million block file $ Q: How to check if a file is opened?( Re: Q: How to check if a file is opened?( Re: Q: How to check if a file is opened?( RE: Q: How to check if a file is opened? remote connection and pathworks # RE: remote connection and pathworks 9 Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system.  RE: Some Multia Help needed E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org 5 Still Time to Vote on the SKC/Tru64.org IPF Survey #2  TRIBON (for shipbuilding) A Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))  Re: Undo disk Initialize Re: Undo disk Initialize Re: Undo disk InitializeD UNIX declared unsecure w/latest cert bug ... VMS only unhackable OS!H Re: UNIX declared unsecure w/latest cert bug ... VMS only unhackable OS! xdmcp 	 Re: xdmcp / Re: XML Test Problems & Java Performance Query.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:20:41 +0100 $ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>4 Subject: Re: (OT) Can We Turn Down the Flames a Bit?/ Message-ID: <XR3N7.40$BD4.4872@news.get2net.dk>   L IIRC, global warming was supposed to bring the ice age faster, at least back= in the 70's.  Since then it appears that the reverse is true.   ; "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> wrote in message 5 news:000001c17769$d1c7fae0$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8...  > . > Hell Michigan freezes over every winter!! :) >  > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]* > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:07 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 > Subject: Re: Can We Turn Down the Flames a Bit?  >  > J > In article <00A059FD.50AA5FA4@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG) > (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  > J > > The Eagles also said that they'd never reunite unless Hell froze over. > ) >    Hell, Indiana froze over circa 1954.  >    ------------------------------   Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:24:14 % From: 2414609travelincentives@aol.com Y Subject: 4872           Would you like to lose weight while you sleep?                  1 = Message-ID: <200111281249.UAA24244@firewall.hzguoshui.gov.cn>   6  As seen on NBC, CBS, CNN, and even Oprah! The health : discovery that actually reverses aging while burning fat, < without dieting or exercise! This proven discovery has even 9 been reported on by the New England Journal of Medicine.  : Forget  aging and dieting forever! And it's Guaranteed!      Click here:  http://ultimatehgh.81832.com  . Would you like to lose weight while you sleep! No dieting!  No hunger pains! No Cravings! No strenuous exercise! Change your life forever!    100% GUARANTEED!  + 1.Body Fat Loss            82% improvement. ( 2.Wrinkle Reduction     61% improvement.- 3.Energy Level               84% improvement. * 4.Muscle Strength         88% improvement.+ 5.Sexual Potency           75% improvement. * 6.Emotional Stability     67% improvement.0 7.Memory                        62% improvement.  ; ***********************************************************   . Click here to see another weight loss product: http://weighout.81832.com   , You are receiving this email as a subscriber$ to the Opt-In America Mailing List. . To remove yourself from all related maillists, just click here:/ mailto:pac2server@btamail.net.cn?Subject=REMOVE    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:49:33 +0100 8 From: Wolfgang Angenendt <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>) Subject: C++ compiler and linker warnings 3 Message-ID: <3C04EB6C.7F8A2E6F@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------9EEE64D6FDC085183B4133B6* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Hello,  ? I've installed an actual C++ compiler (V6.3-020) and the actual  DECwindow software (V1.2-6) E on a OpenVMS 7.2-1 system, but when I try to compile a C++ program, I  get  compiler and linker warnings.   $ A simple C++ example source code is:   #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>  #include <Xm/Xm.h>  8 int main (unsigned int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) { 
  exit (0); }    $ CXX test.cxx   extern XActivateScreenSaver( ......^ A %CXX-W-NOSIMPINT, omission of explicit type is nonstandard ("int"  assumed)= at line number 2000 in file SYS$COMMON:[DECW$INCLUDE]XLIB.H;1    extern XAddHost( ......^ A %CXX-W-NOSIMPINT, omission of explicit type is nonstandard ("int"  assumed)= at line number 2006 in file SYS$COMMON:[DECW$INCLUDE]XLIB.H;1    extern XAddHosts(  ......^ A %CXX-W-NOSIMPINT, omission of explicit type is nonstandard ("int"  assumed)= at line number 2013 in file SYS$COMMON:[DECW$INCLUDE]XLIB.H;1    ...    $ LINK test.obj % %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol: . %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$V60_MAIN_DISPATCH  D On an older OpenVMS system V6.1 the compilation is without warnings.   Can anyone help me?    Thanks W.Angenendt     & --------------9EEE64D6FDC085183B4133B6B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="angenendt.vcf"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable 9 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="angenendt.vcf" 0 Content-Description: Card for Wolfgang Angenendt   begin:vcard=20 n:Angenendt;Wolfgang tel;fax:(0208) 306 2981  tel;work:(0208) 306 2132 x-mozilla-html:FALSE" url:http://www.mpi-muelheim.mpg.de; org:Max-Planck-Institut f=FCr Kohlenforschung;Rechenzentrum ; adr:;;Kaiser-Wilhelm-Platz 1;46466 M=FClheim an der Ruhr;;;  version:2.1 , email;internet:angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de x-mozilla-cpt:;-29120  fn:Angenendt, Wolfgang	 end:vcard   ( --------------9EEE64D6FDC085183B4133B6--   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:40:02 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: C++ compiler and linker warnings 3 Message-ID: <EChSESifcZz1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <3C04EB6C.7F8A2E6F@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>, Wolfgang Angenendt <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de> writes:   > #include <stdio.h> > #include <stdlib.h>  > #include <Xm/Xm.h> > : > int main (unsigned int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) > {  >  exit (0); > }  >  > $ CXX test.cxx >  > extern XActivateScreenSaver(	 > ......^ C > %CXX-W-NOSIMPINT, omission of explicit type is nonstandard ("int" 
 > assumed)? > at line number 2000 in file SYS$COMMON:[DECW$INCLUDE]XLIB.H;1   F    Looks like Xm/Xm.h eventually includes Xlib.h, and Xlib.h is out ofC    date (doesn't have the C++ hooks).  For this simple example, you "    don't need stdio.h nor Xm/Xm.h.      > $ LINK test.obj ' > %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol: 0 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$V60_MAIN_DISPATCH > F > On an older OpenVMS system V6.1 the compilation is without warnings.      Use CXXLINK instead of LINK.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:58:48 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)- Subject: Re: C++ compiler and linker warnings ; Message-ID: <3c0517c8.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   9 Wolfgang Angenendt (angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de) wrote: . > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ! Please turn off MIME. Thanks you.   A > I've installed an actual C++ compiler (V6.3-020) and the actual A > DECwindow software (V1.2-6) on a OpenVMS 7.2-1 system, but when E > I try to compile a C++ program, I get compiler and linker warnings.  > & > A simple C++ example source code is: >  > #include <stdio.h> > #include <stdlib.h>  > #include <Xm/Xm.h> > : > int main (unsigned int argc, char *argv[], char *envp[]) > {  >  exit (0); > }  >  > $ CXX test.cxx >  > extern XActivateScreenSaver(	 > ......^ C > %CXX-W-NOSIMPINT, omission of explicit type is nonstandard ("int" 
 > assumed)? > at line number 2000 in file SYS$COMMON:[DECW$INCLUDE]XLIB.H;1  ...   4 Either modify the X include files (bad idea), or use0   $ CXX /WARNINGS=(DISABLE=(NOSIMPINT)) test.cxx   cu,    Martin --  D                        |  Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1   OpenVMS: When you    |  work: mv@pdv-systeme.de E   KNOW where you want  |     http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 8   to go today.         |  home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:39:02 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) # Subject: Careful with Mozilla 0.9.6 , Message-ID: <9u27r6$3tq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  F   I just wanted to warn people that if they install Mozilla 0.9.6 theyC might want to copy their bookmarks.html file to a safe place first. H Mozilla ate mine and I had to get mine from a backup.  There's also some4 other strange problems, like window focus problems.   @   Yes, I've reported these and some other bugs through bugzilla.   -- Vance Haemmerle  vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:40:29 -0500 * From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: Careful with Mozilla 0.9.6 ) Message-ID: <3C04F75D.8030203@compaq.com>    Vance R. Haemmerle wrote:   H >   I just wanted to warn people that if they install Mozilla 0.9.6 theyE > might want to copy their bookmarks.html file to a safe place first. J > Mozilla ate mine and I had to get mine from a backup.  There's also some6 > other strange problems, like window focus problems.  > B >   Yes, I've reported these and some other bugs through bugzilla. >  > -- > Vance Haemmerle  > vance@alumni.caltech.edu >   I That is odd.  I updated from 0.9.3 to 0.9.6 and didn't have any problems  L with my bookmarks.  I also haven't seen any problems with window focus, etc.   --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:44:41 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ' Subject: Re: Careful with Mozilla 0.9.6 0 Message-ID: <00A05B8A.87EEA161@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3C04F75D.8030203@compaq.com>, John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> writes: >Vance R. Haemmerle wrote: > I >>   I just wanted to warn people that if they install Mozilla 0.9.6 they F >> might want to copy their bookmarks.html file to a safe place first.K >> Mozilla ate mine and I had to get mine from a backup.  There's also some 7 >> other strange problems, like window focus problems.   >>  C >>   Yes, I've reported these and some other bugs through bugzilla.  >>   >> --  >> Vance Haemmerle >> vance@alumni.caltech.edu  >>   > J >That is odd.  I updated from 0.9.3 to 0.9.6 and didn't have any problems M >with my bookmarks.  I also haven't seen any problems with window focus, etc.   H Oh, I've seen a "focus" problem.  All of the guns scramble and leave me  with a blank, black screen!    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:21:35 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>Y Subject: Compaq OpenVMS and Proliant Clusters deliver the lowest Total Cost of Ownership  3 Message-ID: <Ho6N7.2042$RL6.62591@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dear Newsgroup,   5 This is good reading, I checked access from Netscape.    Sue     C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/techwise_1101.pdf    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:53:46 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer) 4 Message-ID: <3C04980A.4010005@swissonline.delete.ch>   Bill Todd wrote:  < > "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message3 > news:91668821Cwarrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97...  > - >>billtodd@metrocast.net (Bill Todd) wrote in 8 >><D4PM7.70514$uB.11455648@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>: >> >>= >>>"Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message 4 >>>news:91666EA00warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97... >>>o >>>... >>>s >>>6I >>>>I wouldn't expect much of this to be spent of OpenVMS marketing.  The H >>>>Intel/Compaq deal is based on processors, not OS's.  I suspect Q can7 >>>>spend the $$ on marketing Tru-64 - and likely will.e >>>>F >>>Did I miss a page lately?  Last I thought I knew, the Tru64 port to >>>Itanic was cancelled. >>> 	 >>>- bill  >>>MK >>More likely I missed a page Bill.  Did HP cancel it or Q?  The odds of HPo/ >>making the call seem to be dwindling of late.T >> > N > Sorry I can't give a citation off the top of my head, but I thought that theN > port had been publicly called off (at least in the sense of such a statementM > leaked by a Compaq manager in a position to do so authoritatively) in favor K > of the proposed post-merger 'convergence' of HP/UX and Tru64 (which seems.G > likely to mean HP/UX with some Tru64 goodies eventually cobbled on ifrN > possible).  Though I'm not sure how such a decision could be reconciled withE > my other impression that HP and Q were nominally supposed to remain F > competitors until the merger had been approved and continue on their > pre-merger courses.  > K > Anyone else have a solider recollection?  My guess would be that a stroll M > through the Inquirer and Register archives would turn up a hit.  I've addedeD > comp.unix.tru64 to the distribution, since people there are likely, > considerably better-informed in this area. >  > - bill >  >        In Compaq's Merger Q&A at   O http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/090401/qa_customer.html#HighPerformanceo   We find ...   l Q3: Obviously you can't go to market with two versions of UNIX--HP-UX and Compaq Tru64 UNIX. Which one wins?  i A: HP has a great general-purpose data center UNIX with broad ISV coverage and increasing share momentum.w  o Compaq has great UNIX clustering, RAS (reliability, availability, scalability) and performance characteristics,   n gaining share especially in high performance technical computing markets. Converging the best of each onto the  o next generation Itanium platform will provide our customers with the most robust enterprise UNIX on the market.        John McLeanU   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 06:02:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)u3 Message-ID: <3365gtgs7A7O@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  q In article <khYM7.269$zX1.664607@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:T > 8 > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message# > news:9turhm$805$2@joe.rice.edu...k- >>    http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htme >>    Compaq's secret VMS planse >>    Another mole squeaks >> > M > FWIW I have it on very reliable authority that there's a lot of veracity tohN > The Inq's latest foray into things VMS-related. The document is a tad dated,@ > but it is said by One Who Ought to Know to be *very* accurate.  A Aside from the reimbursement aspects, it pretty much follows whatcE was outlined on the ISV teleconference.  Sign up for the end-customerc8 teleconference to get an even more up-to-date rendition.  C (They try to call it a "webcast", but the "web" part doesn't really.$ work, based on a sample space of 2.)   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:30:48 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)r3 Message-ID: <GV0Wm1fd61VU@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  [ In article <3C045FA3.C91A0842@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:r > @ > *BUT* - does it reflect the attitude and direction(???) of top/ > management(???) at the Q? ...Curly? ...Carly?w > , > ...Dr. Howard? ...Dr. Fine? ...Dr. Howard?  E    Curly passed it to Shemp, but rumor has it Moe gets the last word.ID    Larry is has issued a press release that he's against the merger.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:34:30 GMTI= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer) 0 Message-ID: <00A05B78.57E8226A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <3365gtgs7A7O@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ar >In article <khYM7.269$zX1.664607@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >> .9 >> "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in messagev$ >> news:9turhm$805$2@joe.rice.edu.... >>>    http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htm  >>>    Compaq's secret VMS plans >>>    Another mole squeaksM >>>n >> eN >> FWIW I have it on very reliable authority that there's a lot of veracity toO >> The Inq's latest foray into things VMS-related. The document is a tad dated, A >> but it is said by One Who Ought to Know to be *very* accurate.  > B >Aside from the reimbursement aspects, it pretty much follows whatF >was outlined on the ISV teleconference.  Sign up for the end-customer9 >teleconference to get an even more up-to-date rendition.o >sD >(They try to call it a "webcast", but the "web" part doesn't really% >work, based on a sample space of 2.)e  J ISV stand for what? Intel System Vendors?  It certainly couldn't stand forJ Independent Software Vendors or, at least, the Independent Software VendorK that provides VMS software and uses VMS systems.  If it did, it would have  7 been accessible via the only supported VMS web browser.   J Until I begin to see Compaq making information available to ISVs doing VMSJ software via the VMS platforms the developers/vendors use, I can only con-I clude that the oft naysayed demise of VMS is neigh.  This includes access : to the CSA web site for which I cough up $600.00 per anum.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             nJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:47:56 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)V; Message-ID: <wO6N7.1164$29.1314421@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>v  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:3365gtgs7A7O@eisner.encompasserve.org...-F > In article <khYM7.269$zX1.664607@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C., Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > >i: > > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message% > > news:9turhm$805$2@joe.rice.edu..../ > >>    http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htma! > >>    Compaq's secret VMS plansr > >>    Another mole squeaks > >> > >iL > > FWIW I have it on very reliable authority that there's a lot of veracity toI > > The Inq's latest foray into things VMS-related. The document is a tad  dated,B > > but it is said by One Who Ought to Know to be *very* accurate. > C > Aside from the reimbursement aspects, it pretty much follows whatnG > was outlined on the ISV teleconference.  Sign up for the end-customerr: > teleconference to get an even more up-to-date rendition. >eE > (They try to call it a "webcast", but the "web" part doesn't really & > work, based on a sample space of 2.)  5 Umm, you must be referring to the infamous "Webinar."7  J The Inq's stuff is indeed dated. Try last August or earlier. Still, it's a
 nice read.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:43:00 GMT*4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer) ; Message-ID: <UJ6N7.1162$29.1312108@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>t  3 "Bob Marcan" <bob.marcan@aster.si> wrote in messaget" news:3C048520.3058B71E@aster.si... > The message was: >V1 > Tru64 port goes on, but will never be released.2  I That was the message I got at CETS2001. It makes sense to continue to themF port (it being essentially a done deal, and having booted back in Sept* anyhow) pending the outcome of the merger.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:49:58 GMT34 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)a; Message-ID: <qQ6N7.1166$29.1314474@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>o  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A05B78.57E8226A@SendSpamHere.ORG...K > In article <3365gtgs7A7O@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net< (Larry Kilgallen) writes:.G > >In article <khYM7.269$zX1.664607@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. , Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > >>; > >> "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message & > >> news:9turhm$805$2@joe.rice.edu...0 > >>>    http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htm" > >>>    Compaq's secret VMS plans > >>>    Another mole squeaks  > >>>t > >>D > >> FWIW I have it on very reliable authority that there's a lot of veracity toUJ > >> The Inq's latest foray into things VMS-related. The document is a tad dated,C > >> but it is said by One Who Ought to Know to be *very* accurate.Y > >MD > >Aside from the reimbursement aspects, it pretty much follows whatH > >was outlined on the ISV teleconference.  Sign up for the end-customer; > >teleconference to get an even more up-to-date rendition.w > >gF > >(They try to call it a "webcast", but the "web" part doesn't really' > >work, based on a sample space of 2.)t >vL > ISV stand for what? Intel System Vendors?  It certainly couldn't stand forL > Independent Software Vendors or, at least, the Independent Software VendorL > that provides VMS software and uses VMS systems.  If it did, it would have9 > been accessible via the only supported VMS web browser.   $ Oh. Guess VMS is dead for sure then!   >hL > Until I begin to see Compaq making information available to ISVs doing VMSL > software via the VMS platforms the developers/vendors use, I can only con-5 > clude that the oft naysayed demise of VMS is neigh.-  L Guess you must be right, then. VMS is dead, long live Netscape Version Zero.  L Funny thing: none of the Himalaya NSK users seem to complain about accessing the Web via Exploder....   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 02:04 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)aB Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?- Message-ID: <28NOV200102041148@gerg.tamu.edu>d  8 Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> writes... }John McLean wrote:  }>   }> Bob Ceculski wrote: }[snip]  }> >G }> > Marketing also has matching funds as part of the agreement, and wexG }> > have put a plan forward to leverage our H2 2001 marketing spendingxI }> > with Intel funds. We have a detailed communication plan rolling out,l: }> > and are working a large number of go to market plans. }> nE }> It sounds like Compaq plucking up the courage to make some kind of 0 }> commitment to VMS, albeit with Intel's money. }> e7 }Intel may be trying to escape from Microsoft, possibly- }as a contingency plan.y } 6 }Being paranoid, what instruction set does Microsoft's	 }Box use?l } 2 }Does it have a port that can be used to connect a3 }keyboard and printer?  Or are they waiting for the- }mark 2? }-- 8 }_______________________________________________________ }Andrew Swallow.  # The Xbox uses a 733MHz Pentium III.+  ? As far as I can tell (I havn't actually exampined one) the only1G ports on the thing are the 4 game controller ports (it should be fairlygG easy for them to make a keyboard and mouse that plugs into one of them)rC and a 10/100 ethernet port. Yep, the Xbox comes with ethernet - notVE that there is anything that will currently run on it that uses it for2H anything, but the intended use is to plug it into a broadband connection to the internet.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:35:54 +0000l- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>nB Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?1 Message-ID: <3C04BE0A.2726FC55@BlueBubble.UK.Com>e   Hoff Hoffman wrote:   I >   Various new boxes have arrived here in Engineering, and the engineers)G >   are now understandably swarming all over them... (The first goal of F >   any engineer has already been achieved: take each of the new boxesF >   apart and then see how it fits back together.  And -- I'm not sureE >   if this is a credit to the skills of the hardware or the software B >   engineers -- the boxes still worked after the reassembly.  :-)  J Aha !  But how many pieces did they have left over after the re-assembly ? :-)o  F >   We may soon have to officially close the OpenVMS Itanium bootstrapI >   contest submission window -- after the submission deadline, we can nofI >   longer accept your guesses for the date when OpenVMS first bootstraps  >   on Itanium.  :-)   Congratulations !t  	 Roy Omond. Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:25:54 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)TB Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?3 Message-ID: <A6EEt+Se7wSp@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  h In article <r9VM7.2016$RL6.62420@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > 6 >   Various new boxes have arrived here in Engineering  G    So did they settle on the HP boxes, or did Compaq actually find some3    chips that work?q  G >   We may soon have to officially close the OpenVMS Itanium bootstrap aJ >   contest submission window -- after the submission deadline, we can no J >   longer accept your guesses for the date when OpenVMS first bootstraps  >   on Itanium.  :-)  D    Since I assume all the cross compilers run on Alpha I assumed theD    first boot was 26-OCT-2001.	I should have known it took more than9    one day to read an Intel architecture reference.   8-)       I bid 18-DEC-2001.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:41:16 -0800 (PST)v. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>B Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?@ Message-ID: <20011128144116.48483.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  ) I just would like to know if we will haven+ the HP Lan Console in Intanium machines ...t   Just this is enough for me !=205   Regards1   FC=20H2 --- Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:5 > In article <r9VM7.2016$RL6.62420@news.cpqcorp.net>,R6 > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > >=20, > >   Various new boxes have arrived here in
 > Engineeringi >=206 >    So did they settle on the HP boxes, or did Compaq > actually find some >    chips that work?r >=206 > >   We may soon have to officially close the OpenVMS > Itanium bootstrap=20, > >   contest submission window -- after the# > submission deadline, we can no=20n2 > >   longer accept your guesses for the date when > OpenVMS first bootstraps=20  > >   on Itanium.  :-) >=202 >    Since I assume all the cross compilers run on > Alpha I assumed thew6 >    first boot was 26-OCT-2001.=09I should have known > it took more thanb8 >    one day to read an Intel architecture reference.=20 >  8-) >=20 >    I bid 18-DEC-2001.A >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dw F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilv fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?E Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.7# http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:41:25 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>B Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?@ Message-ID: <20011128144125.79748.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  ) I just would like to know if we will havee* the HP Lan Console in Itanium machines ...   Just this is enough for me !=20e   Regardsl   FC=20t2 --- Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:5 > In article <r9VM7.2016$RL6.62420@news.cpqcorp.net>,26 > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > >=20, > >   Various new boxes have arrived here in
 > Engineering> >=206 >    So did they settle on the HP boxes, or did Compaq > actually find some >    chips that work?7 >=206 > >   We may soon have to officially close the OpenVMS > Itanium bootstrap=20, > >   contest submission window -- after the# > submission deadline, we can no=20S2 > >   longer accept your guesses for the date when > OpenVMS first bootstraps=20> > >   on Itanium.  :-) >=202 >    Since I assume all the cross compilers run on > Alpha I assumed the 6 >    first boot was 26-OCT-2001.=09I should have known > it took more than 8 >    one day to read an Intel architecture reference.=20 >  8-) >=20 >    I bid 18-DEC-2001.a >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Ds F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?E Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.e# http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:32:17 GMTh  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>B Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?+ Message-ID: <3C051173.7EA0F3EA@prodigy.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:d > : > Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> writes... > }John McLean wrote:t > }> > }> Bob Ceculski wrote:	 > }[snip]d > }> >I > }> > Marketing also has matching funds as part of the agreement, and werI > }> > have put a plan forward to leverage our H2 2001 marketing spending#K > }> > with Intel funds. We have a detailed communication plan rolling out, < > }> > and are working a large number of go to market plans. > }>G > }> It sounds like Compaq plucking up the courage to make some kind ofa2 > }> commitment to VMS, albeit with Intel's money. > }>9 > }Intel may be trying to escape from Microsoft, possiblya > }as a contingency plan.i > } 8 > }Being paranoid, what instruction set does Microsoft's > }Box use?e > }o4 > }Does it have a port that can be used to connect a5 > }keyboard and printer?  Or are they waiting for thes
 > }mark 2? > }-- : > }_______________________________________________________ > }Andrew Swallowa > % > The Xbox uses a 733MHz Pentium III.l > A > As far as I can tell (I havn't actually exampined one) the onlyaI > ports on the thing are the 4 game controller ports (it should be fairly I > easy for them to make a keyboard and mouse that plugs into one of them)nE > and a 10/100 ethernet port. Yep, the Xbox comes with ethernet - notiG > that there is anything that will currently run on it that uses it for J > anything, but the intended use is to plug it into a broadband connection > to the internet. > 
 > --- Carl   Will it boot off the ethernet?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:07:54 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>B Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?; Message-ID: <e57N7.1167$29.1322004@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>a  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messaged: news:20011128144125.79748.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com...) I just would like to know if we will have"* the HP Lan Console in Itanium machines ...   Just this is enough for me !  I Well this would make sense as much of the development is being done on HPo Itanium boxes!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:32:44 GMTr/ From: "Telicall (800) 306 5227" <ffon@ffon.net>r2 Subject: FREE USA CALLS NOW! - DIAL (800) 306 5227+ Message-ID: <SAK.2001.11.28.mmhgonqp@truro>r   <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>: <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Email user,</FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Before you delete this email as junk, we are offering you FREE phone calls, immediately, no sign up just an (800) number to dial from anywhere in the USA.</FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All weekday calls* made between now and December 24th to any of the following countries are absolutely FREE!</FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>7 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Great Britain</FONT></DIV>L- <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>USA</FONT></DIV>90 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Canada</FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>Q <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Simply dial toll free on (800) 306 5227</FONT></DIV>e0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You will hear a dial tone and welcome announcement.  Simply dial in the full international number you wish to call followed by the # sign.</FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>6 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For example:</FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>q <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>to call (303) 555 5411 in Denver, CO, you would dial 00 1 303 555 5411#</FONT></DIV>uu <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>to call 020 7123 4567 in London, England you would dial 00 44 20 7123 4567#</FONT></DIV>"0 <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>? <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">iS <tr><td width="100%">____________________________________________________</td></tr>fD <tr><td width="100%"><small>Sent by MailMaster 2.0</small></td></tr> <tr><td width="100%"><small>FREE download at <a href="http://www.gaudy.net/mailmaster">www.gaudy.net/mailmaster</a></small></td></tr></table>S   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 09:53:08 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)9 Subject: Future of Alpha [was Re: Special IPF-Inside ...]t0 Message-ID: <9u2c64$6im$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  6 In article <FSYM7.172$s06.38481@typhoon2.gnilink.net>,% Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote: 6 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message= >news:PlXM7.149549$dk.11004922@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...e >eF >> The alternative is to force no port at all:  rather, take the Alpha	 >decision,0 >> and shove it right back down Compaq's throat. ><L >Bill all barbs aside - there is no way this is going to happen and all thatM >will happen from this Jihad of yours is the potential to inflict significantl >collateral damage on OVMS.t  D Agreed.  Up until the beginning of the year, it would have been justH possible for Alpha to have had a long-term future, though it was gettingI pretty unlikely.  Now, it isn't.  Well, it may be theoretically possible,i# but there isn't a realistic chance.s  F The key is NOT Compaq's dithering and blithering, but the dispersal ofC the Alpha team and the length of time that there has been little oraF no development (on the EV8) already.  By the time that the Alpha couldF be back as a leading architecture, most customers will have moved off.  F The best hope for Alpha succession is that HP's shareholders will turnE down the merger, and that Compaq or its receivers will sell the AlphacB to a company that will do something positive and long-term.  But IC doubt that it would be the Alpha as such, though it could well be aeE design that is compatible enough to make VMS porting straightforward.u  B [ To those who are not deeply into this area:  the difficulties ofE porting a modern system are NOT in the instruction set, as conversion'B is easy and most code is in reasonably clean high-level languages,D but in things like the exception handling and process control models used by the ISA. ]  + I am not optimistic, but there is a chance.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:03:38 +010071 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>M Subject: Future of VMS ?5 Message-ID: <3C0526FA.7A739645@swissonline.delete.ch>.  F My recent postings about Compaq have been quite negative and there's aG very good reason for this;  personally I believe that the best prospecttD of a future for VMS lies with killing the merger with HP dead in its tracks.    Why do I think this ?m  F 1.  There is no current indication that the merger will do anything atD all to improve the situation for VMS.  At best it looks like will beA more of the same (niche markets, no promotion, no press releases,DF retiring products ...etc.).  At worst it could be another e3000, maybe; not right away but some time in the not too distant future.s  D 2.  The current management of Compaq - the same individuals who willC have a strong influence on the merged company - are people who havesB directed billions of dollars into the product that makes the leastA profit, and neglected to make any serious efforts to market their"C best-earners.  To do this for one year would be unfortunate, but torE persist in doing this year after year really makes one question theirhD competence.  It looks like the stockmarket is also losing confidenceH because when Capellas took over the stock price was about $28, then roseF slowly to $35 (up 20%) but is now down at less than $10 (down 70% from
 that $35).  G 3.  The current roadmap expects the IPF processor to be on schedule andeD meet performance specifications but this must be regarded as wishful@ thinking when delivery is several years away.   Right now VMS isB slipping into "coasting" mode, no foot on the pedal, just driftingD along.  If IPF slips by even a few months (as is Intel's habit) thenG even more VMS users will desert it and quite possibly this will reach a.F point where it casts doubt upon the viability of the porting exercise.  H 4.  In direct terms the termination of Alpha and the move to IPF bothers@ me only because so many assumptions are being made about the IPFC processor.  (To call these assumptions baseless would be unfair, soVH perhaps overly-optimistic is the best description.)  Most alarming aboutH this transfer of technology is the flakiness of Compaq's justifications,G first commercial and then technical.  In both cases these were promptly D contradicted or counter-argued from within and without the company. A These poor justifications, which had to almost be squeezed out ofuG Compaq, have further eroded confidence in the company.  Their assertiongC that ISVs would be attracted to Intel/VMS is looking just as shaky.   G 5.  Even if Compaq management "got religion" (to use Winkler's words toRF Alan Greig), their collective credibility is less than 10% of zero andF the market would be extremely skeptical about any utterance of supportF for Compaq's high-end products.  If past events are a guide, a lack ofG market reaction would see Compaq declaring that there was no market forgG the high-end when in actual fact it no-one was buying their statements.r  H 6.  The abandoning of the merger should mean that Capellas is out on hisD ear, hopefully accompanied by the coterie who supported him.  I, forH one, would be very happy to see a bunch of over-paid under-achievers getF their marching orders.  In about 30 months Capellas has not managed toE check the slide in the performance of Compaq - this year alone, up to F 30th September Compaq has lost almost $1.8 million every day in the PC sector.   E 7.  If Capellas (et al) depart, the market will at least give the neweB management a chance to prove themselves, which means that Compaq'sB credibility rating would go from "negative" to "neutral", which of" course would be a big improvement.  D 8.   If Compaq sincerely lacks the will or motivation to do anythingG productive with VMS, then it should be made available to an alternativetG buyer as soon as practicable. If the merger goes ahead but in 12 months1E the new company decides to rid itself of VMS, the market value of theiG platform will have fallen even further and the job of restoring some of H its attractiveness becomes that much more difficult.  (A few weeks ago IA noticed a favourable response to the rumour of an IBM purchase ofoE Compaq.  This indicates to me that the posters to this newsgroup have H greater confidence in IBM's ability than Compaq's when it comes to doing something positive with VMS.)  l    H I want a new company management team to be responsible for VMS.  I don'tG care much if it still within Compaq but free of the wanton stupidity ofl? concentrating on the PC market, or if it in a whole new companybH somewhere.  I believe that without these changes we will continue to getB more of the same neglect that has dogged VMS for the last 5 years.     John McLeanh   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 14:12:21 GMT$ From: Chris Petersen <havoc@apk.net>= Subject: Re: Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLT?( Message-ID: <9u2rc5$13i$1@plonk.apk.net>  6 In comp.sys.dec Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:? : More evidence of the supposed 'synergies' HP's Carly has beengF : detailing to analysts seems to be emerging. In a feature on SuperDLTE : vs Ultrium in this week's "Computing" (UK) IDC and Gartner are both G : quoted as saying that DLT as originally developed by DEC and SuperDLTmH : as developed by Quantum will be dead end products after the HP merger.G : Supposedly DLT/SuperDLT sales are still mainly through Compaq brandedcC : products or related sales. WIth HP a co-developer of Ultrium both>C : Gartner and IDC predict that the new HP will phase out Compaq DLTuG : products in favour of Ultrium. Both further predict that Quantum willtC : not be able to keep SuperDLT alive without the backing of a major 	 : vendor.y  B : So there we have the final wreckage of yet another DEC developedC : technology. First flogged off by Palmer then nailed stone dead by ! : Curly's love affair with Carly.t  A : I think I'll setup an IT analysis company. Then I can rake in anG : fortune by simply inviting Carly and Curly for dinner then repeating,bG : for a fee of course,  whatever nonsense they whisper in my ear as "my  : predictions".h : -- : Alan  L I'll believe this one when I see it.  I just came off a 3 year contract at aJ major manufacturer's site in North Eastern Ohio.  We had a pretty good mixC of boxes, Compaqs, HP 9000 Unix machines, Dells, IBMs, and the onlybL consistent backup media format was DLT.  Never seen so many DLT drives in myJ life.  And I dealt with 3 other international locations of theirs that all8 specifically requested DLT drives with any new hardware.  K Heck, I spec'ed out some new HP 9000 A-class hardware for them a few monthseK back and HP wouldn't even offer me an Ultrium drive in their "Unix" storageHI lineup.  All they have for Unix & HP 3000-class machines are DATs and DLT K drives.  If this is going to happen HP's really going to have to get behind J Ultrium and push it, something they haven't done since they introduced the format 2-3 years ago...e  L I just can't see it happening, myself...Especially when HP just made a bunchE of hoopla over introducing their first SuperDLT drive very recently. tF Actually, I've seen a new SuperDLT drive mechanism out there recently,D instead of the traditional 5.25" full-height form factor it's a moreG reasonable half-height form factor like a DAT drive.  And I believe theoK mechanism was being built by a new manufacturer other than Quantum, though )B I can't quite recall the builder's name.  I will say that having aJ half-height drive available would dramatically expand the usability of theJ format, since there have been several servers over the years that I've notK been able to conveniently put a DLT drive into without going to an externalD drive.   ChrisD   -- 3 Chris Petersen? Systems Engineer, Industry Services, Unigraphics Solutions Inc.a% Co-founder, auctions.workstations.orge Email: havoc@apk.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:04:57 +0000-4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>4 Subject: Re: Graphics cntrlr not recognized by 5.5-28 Message-ID: <16d90ugdtacfe5leq9ht99rakge5acvnno@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:27:52 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"a$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  - >Are you using the built-in LCG, or the SPX? a  B There is built-in graphics on a 4000/60 ?  I thought only the 3100, models had on-board monochrome capabilities.     	Johna -- e
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:26:22 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r4 Subject: Re: Graphics cntrlr not recognized by 5.5-23 Message-ID: <lp7N7.2049$RL6.62697@news.cpqcorp.net>o  I Turns out that WINDOW_SYSTEM was set to zero (which still worked on 5.5-2  :-o)  7 The VS2000 and VS3100 had built in monochrome graphics.m  L The VS4000 had the LCG graphics engine built into the memory controller.  ItK was a brilliant design for a system with a slow CPU.  The thing that lookedIJ like a graphics card, was actually a board that contained the video memoryF and RAMDAC - which allowed a number of configurations (for instance, aC 4-headed version was done, as well as one that could interface to a  multi-sync monitor).  C The SPX/GT was a add-on graphics card that plugged in where the LCG3G memory/RAMDAC card went, and overrode the LCG capabilities and added 3DMG capability.  The SPX became more-or-less standard on the VS4000-60 over= time.D   _Fred=  K John Laird wrote in message <16d90ugdtacfe5leq9ht99rakge5acvnno@4ax.com>..._6 >On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:27:52 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"% ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:h >i- >>Are you using the built-in LCG, or the SPX?c >pC >There is built-in graphics on a 4000/60 ?  I thought only the 31001- >models had on-board monochrome capabilities.  >j >: > John >--V >John LairdI >Yezerski Roper Ltde   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:46:12 -0500e- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>t* Subject: Re: logical names novice question( Message-ID: <3C0530F1.AD9E8239@ohio.edu>  I Once upon a time, on a VAX long since retired, we had both Tektronix 4010aK emulating terminals and ReGIS graphics terminals.  We didn't have enough ofdG either type for the number of students who should use them, so we got aiM licensed copy of the source code for PLOT-10 (which, in my limited experience K at the time, set a new extreme for FORTRAN spaghetti-code) and made anothercO copy that had all the same subroutines and arguments, but which generated ReGISaO output.  Each subroutine library got built into a sharable executable.  One was,O then linked to the program code by way of a logical name.  When you sat down totM run the program, all it took was redefining that logical name in order to useo the other type of terminal.   #                                 RDP_     Pino Gargiulo wrote:  L > Recently I've got hold of a Vaxstation 3100 and started learning VMS, even > if from readinglK > this group there seems not a great use of this knowhow in the future 8-).r >(H > I'm really impressed by the flexibility of logical names and tables if > compared to UnixN > environment variables. However I cannot imagine situations where I could use
 > the fullK > potentials, such as using different access modes, private tables etc. The  > only situation= > that comes to my mind is some real secure environment where  > users/application needL > to be kept isolated. But doing this would require probably lost of effort. >7E > Any body care to give me an example of sofisticate use of logicals?: >: > TIAs >S > /PGf   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:36:22 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n? Subject: Re: New product allows VMS to become part of a PC Lan!-3 Message-ID: <LKB0LPX64wO1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <d7791aa1.0111271509.4f1bf490@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  E > Just ran across this amazing product as we were looking to make ourc > AlphaiA > VMS system part of our local PC Lan and ran across this amazingb
 > product ...>G > they also have a product that allows VMS pc disk access ... amazing! r	 > here isy& > the link if anyone is interested ...  H    Nothing like being 15 years behind the times, and 10 years behind the    freeware.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:49:25 -0500c2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>M Subject: New York City meeting - Porting OpenVMS to Itanium - you are invited 3 Message-ID: <zr9N7.2056$RL6.62787@news.cpqcorp.net>e  J Just so you know Gaitan is a technical director in the OpenVMS EngineeringK group and a great person as well, Chris is my new manager and you will likee him as well.  3 If you can attend this I would highly recommend it.   
 Warm Regards,    SueO      F ______________________________________________________________________  J New York Metro Encompass Local Users Group (LUG) will meet on Dec. 6, 2001  K featuring a presentation on "Porting OpenVMS to Itanium." This is part of a>  J series of forums focusing on AlphaServer and OpenVMS related topics hosted by   Compaq and the LUG.>  K Anyone interested in these Compaq technologies, including Compaq customers,   F resellers and employees may attend. See below for how to pre-register.  J The event will take place at the Compaq office in Manhattan, 2 Penn Plaza, 8thn  J Floor, New York City, in the Pacific Conference room on Thursday, Dec 6th,  
 between 1-3PMN   Agenda:t  3 1:00- 1:10 Welcome and Introductions - Lynne Hummel1  ' 1:10- 1:30 Alpha Roadmap - Lynne Hummel_  2 1:30- 1:40 LUG /Encompass Business - Gary McCready  7 1:40- 2:40 Porting OpenVMS to Itanium - Gaitan D'Antoni<  * 2:40- 2:50 Discussion topics - Chris Brown  E 2:50- 3:00 Local OpenVMS service and support - Compaq Global Servicesa  H Lynne Hummel is the High Performance Sales Specialist and Alpha Business  J Manager for NYC Financial Accounts at Compaq. She will be reviewing recent  $ announcements and the Alpha roadmap.  B Gaitan D'Antoni and Chris Brown are Technical Directors in OpenVMS  I Engineering. They join us from Nashua, NH and will be presenting Compaq'so plans"  E for porting OpenVMS to Itanium. Gaitan will review schedules, layeredd product2  - software, tools and other topics of interest.r  J Gary McCready is an employee of Securities Industry Automation Corporation ande  I is planning to organize the NYC Metro LUG. He will be able to address the   J benefits of membership, dues structure, and the plans for the location and  K content of future NYC Metro LUG meetings. Come prepared to share your idease with   Gary.h  L Compaq has a comprehensive Global Services Group which delivers remedial and  G consulting services for OpenVMS customers. We will provide a very brief. overview  < of our capabilities to serve customers in the NY Metro area.  2 To reserve your place at this event, send email to  D Barbara.Hunt@compaq.com. You will be met by a Compaq employee at the  F security desk at the entrance to the building. Should you arrive late,  C please call our reception desk at 212-856-2000 for an escort. Lightr   refreshments will be served.  5 Please forward this invitation to your colleagues whol  D may be interested in attending. For additional information about the	 Encompassa  L NY Metrolocal user group, please send email go NYMLUG@McCready.com. For more  & information on Encompass, please visit  + http://www.decus.org/encompass/index.shtml.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:31:54 -0500i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comY Subject: re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon        Knows Compaqs4 Message-ID: <C2256B12.0049FBC8.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  P I always referred to that as "Pregnant woman syndrome" - attempting to produce a baby int" one month by involving nine women.  N This is often invoked when a delivery date is selected and advertised and only then is thelO analysis done to determine how much work and how much time are actually needed.3        5 sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk on 11/28/2001 06:24:59 AM   - Please respond to sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comb cc:eL Subject:  re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows       Compaq at www.tru64.org)         >k* > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Jeff Killeen wrote: >tE > > At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake?S > >  >tJ > Good question. Having been married and divorced twice I am familiar only > with the Two Woman Mistake!t >.  K The "nine woman" mistake: thinking that you can make a baby in one month bye getting nine women pregnant.  # the old ones are the best ones ....p        Yours,n           Nigel Arnote"           NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK  ?           "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:24:59 +0100o/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>oY Subject: re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows        Compaqs7 Message-ID: <00A05B90.29453183.16@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>k   > * > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Jeff Killeen wrote: > E > > At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake?  > >b > J > Good question. Having been married and divorced twice I am familiar only > with the Two Woman Mistake!  >   K The "nine woman" mistake: thinking that you can make a baby in one month bys getting nine women pregnant.  # the old ones are the best ones ....M   	Yours,i
 		Nigel Arnotn- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   l  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."t   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 07:25:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows        Compaqm3 Message-ID: <G2NOxMyhUrFJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  i In article <00A05B90.29453183.16@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:  >> y+ >> On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Jeff Killeen wrote:l >> gF >> > At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake? >> > >> iK >> Good question. Having been married and divorced twice I am familiar onlya >> with the Two Woman Mistake! >> a > M > The "nine woman" mistake: thinking that you can make a baby in one month byd > getting nine women pregnant.  E For the relevant IA64 multiprocessor issue raised, just think back totB when 6 VUPs was the fastest VAX DEC could make.  Their speakers atB DECUS made suggestions about "parallelizing" your applications, toF which my question was, "when will the Ada compiler be parallelized ?".  E The same issue is true for modern CPUs.  Multiprocessors do not solveh> the speed issue where the underlying problem is single-stream.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:44:11 -0500h# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>sY Subject: Re: nine women (was: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows        Compaq + Message-ID: <3C04F83B.D3B50EA5@hsc.vcu.edu>   2 Was that Henry the Eight who found that out??? ;-D  7 Jim Agnew, who may be a history-challenged Virginian...i   Nigel Arnot wrote: >  > > , > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Jeff Killeen wrote: > > G > > > At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake?m > > >  > >aL > > Good question. Having been married and divorced twice I am familiar only > > with the Two Woman Mistake!v > >  > M > The "nine woman" mistake: thinking that you can make a baby in one month byt > getting nine women pregnant. > % > the old ones are the best ones ....  >  >         Yours, >                 Nigel Arnote* >                 NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK > G >                 "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:43:03 GMTp  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>8 Subject: Re: Obtaining System Serial Number via Software8 Message-ID: <ttba0uohf7p6f02mnl92qi9dru3da3jhsi@4ax.com>  6 On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:45:51 +0100, "Dijk, Jeroen van"% <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote:m   >f@ >> We were also asked for serial numbers. Serial number from theA >> board that actually contains the CPU might be your best bet ifn@ >> no labels exist on the outside of the box. This seems strange> >> unless you built yourself a system using a bare motherboard >> (i.e.: PC164), etc. >> > J >It is not so strange. If you have a box that is upgraded you end up with ; >the serial number of the old cpu standing on the outside.   >iK >The components has unique serial numbers, but that is not the case for thee >system. >oJ >Normally the serial number of the system is equal to the first processor, >but it is wise I >the write down the serial number at the moment you have the chance or atG >every upgrade.  > I >Please don't issue license keys that check on serial numbers, unless youc >have 24/7 helpdesk : >that can issue new license keys with in a hour or faster. >sJ >Because everytime a hardwarecomponent is replaced is a new license key is	 >needed. uI >And very often replacement is a repair action to minimize the downtime. r >e  E On some VAX systems, the ID would change when you upgrade firmware asp well.   F Add to this the problem with vendors who key off of the MAC address ofC the NIC.  Thish as been a big problem in some sites where NICs haveeE died in the middle of the night.  Unfortunately, when you customer is>E on Eastern time, and the vendor who generates the keys are on Pacific 2 time, you're guaranteed at *least* 1/2-day outage.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqa- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:21:13 -0600e0 From: Patrick Spinler <spinler.patrick@mayo.edu>I Subject: Offtopic: cross platform portability tools - a study of autoconfa( Message-ID: <3C051D09.FF5FCA2F@mayo.edu>  H From time to time the topic of porting tools of unix origin to VMS comesD up in this newsgroup.  Often the "portability" package "autoconf" isH cited as a major problem in getting the package under discussion running on VMS.t  0 Those following these topics may find this paperF http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~ezk/research/amu/autoconfiscating_amd.htmlB of interest.  It chronicals one package maintainer's experience in? porting his package (amd - the Berkeley auto mounter daemon) to 	 autoconf.I  C While the particular package ported is likely of little interest tocH VMSers his conclusions are still interesting.  For instance, as a resultE of autoconfing, he was able to reduce his code size from 49k lines tolG 30k lines, and reduce his code's conditional complexity (as measured bylG the number of C "#ifdef" statements per hundred lines of code) from 9.7I per hundred to 6.5 per hundred.a  C After reading this, I'd draw the conclusion that unix based packageaG authors have a powerful motivation for autoconfing their code, and thatcC we in the VMS world are likely to be stuck with having to deal with A this.  It seems likely that we'll either have to make ourselves a.H working autoconf facility, provide some similar package that runs on VMSF but is compellingly better enough to tempt authors away from autoconf,= or be stuck in our current "unix code == hell" statis for thei indeterminate future.    -- Pat   -- n?       This message does not represent the policies or positionsl1 	     of the Mayo Foundation or its subsidiaries.f3   Patrick Spinler			email:	Spinler.Patrick@Mayo.EDU '   Mayo Foundation			phone:	507/284-9485e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:18:18 -0500l2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>? Subject: onExchange announces OpenVMS-based Financial solutionsu3 Message-ID: <Dl6N7.2041$RL6.62126@news.cpqcorp.net>r  7 URL works on Netscape, did not check Internet explorer.-   sue-    ) http://www.onexchange.com/press112601.asp4  B                                                 NEXCHANGE DELIVERS
 ELECTRONICG                                                    CLEARING AND TRADINGr	 SOLUTIONS@E                                                     ON COMPAQ OPENVMSe SOFTWAREJ                                                    onExchange Clearing and Trading Systems F                                                       Now Available on Compaq OpenVMSL                                                         AlphaServer Platform	 to Enable-J                                                     Highly-Reliable 24x365 Performance forcI                                                        Clearinghouses and7	 Exchanges.  K                                                    Cambridge, MA - November 
 26, 2001 -H                                                    onExchange, Inc., the leading providerC                                                    of comprehensive  derivatives clearingI                                                    and trading technologya and services tod@                                                    regulated and over-the-counter (OTC)K                                                    markets, today announcede
 a businessA                                                    and technologyg relationship with3B                                                    Compaq Computer Corporation toE                                                    deliver electronicD clearing and tradingC                                                    solutions to the  derivatives markets onL                                                    Compaq's OpenVMS software	 operatingn:                                                    system.  E                                                    Today, derivativesc clearinghouses,sG                                                    exchanges, banks and- other-H                                                    organizations running applications on@F                                                    the powerful Compaq OpenVMSEH                                                    operating system, can benefit fromJ                                                    onExchange's Extensible ClearingH                                                    System and Extensible Trading Engine.e?                                                    The system'se  ! straight-through-processing (STP)sK                                                    methodology enables truea	 real-timeuI                                                    processing by clearing  and settling aI                                                    trade as soon as it isW matched.  G                                                    As a result of closen engineering and labtC                                                    work between thei
 companies,A                                                    onExchange has  successfully deployedfD                                                    its Java standard clearing system andrL                                                    trading engine, using the BEA WebLogicF                                                    Server, on Compaq's OpenVMSdK                                                    AlphaServer systems. The 	 ease with L                                                    which onExchange was able
 to certifyA                                                    on the OpenVMS  environmentbL                                                    demonstrates the strength of theF                                                    onExchange solution design and theE                                                    suitability of theh OpenVMS environment,J                                                    and BEA WebLogic Server
 as a platformcE                                                    for J2EE-compliant  solutions. TheG                                                    onExchange system isc available toE                                                    OpenVMS users now.@  D                                                    Today's financial exchanges depend onoL                                                    continuous, uninterrupted	 access towL                                                    critical applications and data. As@                                                    exchanges and clearinghouses move toF                                                    24x365 availability worldwide, there is5G                                                    an increased need to- maintain uptime ofK                                                    the underlying operatingo systems.K                                                    onExchange's trading andr clearingJ                                                    solutions on the Compaq OpenVMSaK                                                    operating system benefite from theB                                                    highly-reliable performance and disasterJ                                                    tolerance capability of the OpenVMS_K                                                    operating system and its)K                                                    industry-leading cluster  technology.s  I                                                    "The relationship withd
 onExchangeJ                                                    further strengthens the
 leadershipK                                                    position Compaq holds ato the heart ofK                                                    the derivatives clearingl and trading <                                                    industry. State-of-the-art solutionsH                                                    designed by companies such as0A                                                    onExchange, ins combination with theG                                                    core capabilities ofu reliability, security,I                                                    and scalability of thea OpenVMS K                                                    environment, will enable 
 our mutualG                                                    customers to delivern	 real-time G                                                    performance to theire constituents," saidTD                                                    Mark Gorham, vice president ofK                                                    Compaq's OpenVMS Systemsa Group.F                                                    "I'm delighted that onExchange'sJ                                                    electronic clearing and trading solutionJ                                                    is now available to the growing numberH                                                    of clearinghouses and exchanges."   I                                                    "The OpenVMS operatinge
 system is theoJ                                                    acknowledged leader forC                                                    enterprise-scale  computing and InternetI                                                    solutions; the OpenVMS  system is usedA                                                    extensively ino derivatives,E                                                    clearinghouses andr	 exchangesmK                                                    worldwide. We expect ourl
 ExtensibleH                                                    Clearing System to be widely adoptedK                                                    by these OpenVMS users,"  said EdaL                                                    Cuoco, COO and co-founder ofL                                                    onExchange. "Compaq has a strongB                                                    presence in the clearinghouse andoH                                                    exchanges market, and this relationship D                                                    will enable us to increase onExchange's L                                                    foothold as we extend our riskJ                                                    management technologies
 to OpenVMS:                                                    users."  G                                                    About the onExchange  DerivativessG                                                    Clearing and Tradingu Systemsn  K                                                    onExchange systems bringf fullJ                                                    derivatives trading and clearingK                                                    capabilities to existingl futures and OTCtF                                                    exchanges and their clearinghouses. G                                                    Designed as a set ofs
 integratedJ                                                    Internet-based modules, the systems L                                                    accommodate a broad range ofK                                                    customizable unregulateda
 and regulated.L                                                    derivatives products such as futures,mE                                                    options, swaps and  forwards within anC                                                    STP environment.   E                                                    The systems enabled traders, clearing K                                                    members and back-officess
 to manage alltH                                                    trading activity in a single real-timeK                                                    system, including seeing  live P&L andG                                                    risk updates, manage- credit and tradingL                                                    permissions in real-time, handleF                                                    real-time give-ups, allocations anda;                                                    notices.n  J                                                    onExchange's technology is beingL                                                    adopted by both regulated and OTC E                                                    clearinghouses and 	 exchangess=                                                    worldwide.a  C                                                    About onExchange D                                                    onExchange, Inc., providesL                                                    comprehensive derivatives exchangeD                                                    and clearinghouse capabilities to"D                                                    regulated and OTC
 marketplaces.lK                                                    onExchange also providess
 regulatoryE                                                    expertise, product  design, marketing-L                                                    and professional services to its partnerD                                                    marketplaces. All onExchange systemsE                                                    can be implementedg modularly or in auI                                                    comprehensive trading,e clearing and risk K                                                    management solution. Thef
 Company isE                                                    privately held ando headquartered inC                                                    Cambridge, Mass.s  I                                                    The Company's Web siteb
 address isF                                                    www.onexchange.com.  >                                                    onExchange, digitalDerivatives, onClear.L                                                    and RealTime Clearing are
 service marks F                                                    of onExchange, Inc.  ;                                                    CONTACT:   ?                                                    Nancy Macedo3C                                                    onExchange, Inc. ?                                                    617-665-9100sI                                                    nmacedo@onexchange.comc  K                                                    Davida Dinerman or Lauraf SextonK                                                    Schwartz Communications,e Inc.?                                                    781-684-0770a   onexchange@schwartz-pr.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:22:35 GMT G From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> D Subject: Open Source support levels, was: Re: OSU Webserver problems6 Message-ID: <vy5N7.40660$xS6.67646@www.newsranger.com>  . On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:31:41 +0000, in article? <imf70uka3oprsacapbithh5vimf5itfg60@4ax.com>, Alan Greig wrote:s >eB >On 27 Nov 2001 07:02:28 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) >wrote:  >u] >>Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3C03656A.7716F6EF@gtech.com>...l >d< >>> Since when has it become practice to make phone calls to1 >>> authors of freeware when you have a problem ?  >>>  >>> Arne >>H >>if you need answers and you are dead in the water and not getting any,
 >>then youH >>go to the horses mouth as they say in Texas ... I called him once withH >>a question and he politely answered ... it is his software, if he will >i@ >I agree that, especially in a university environment, it is notF >unreasonable to expect the odd phone call about a product you releaseC >or support for free. I certainly used to get the odd phone call tot: >help with setting up ANU News and had no problem with it. > G >I know that Richard Stallman used to encourage phone calls back in his D >DECUS days - recall it all began with EMACS for the PDP-10 (TOPS-20; >and ITS not Bottoms-10 as RMS called it somewhat unkindly)g >--  >Alan0  G This discussion is of interest as I have been considering some projectsxE (as a way of learning new languages/toolkits/OS environments/etc) andcE then possibly releasing some of them under a GPL license in case theye could be useful to others.  F One of my main concerns has been how much support is expected from the2 author and much time does this generally take up ?  G What are the experiences of the various Open Source authors/maintainersnH here ? I am also interested in hearing any specific bad experiences that you may have had.r   Simon.   -- s@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered a E truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:28:29 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS and minicopy... a note of thanks...3 Message-ID: <VC5N7.2037$RL6.62486@news.cpqcorp.net>    John,n  4 I have sent your note to all of OpenVMS Engineering.  
 Warm Regards,  Sueu    I "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> wrote in messagemG news:3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016025A3@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM... 7 > I would just like to take a moment to thank those whom5 > did the work on including the minicopy feature intoe > volume shadowing of OpenVMS. >h: > For my site, we typically see 6 to 8 hours to accomplish; > full shadow copies.  With the minicopy feature, our testst9 > thus far have shown that it only takes 15 to 30 minutes	 > for remaking our shadowsets. > < > Thanks go to OpenVMS Engineering for continuing to provide* > a superior product, and on enhancing it. >  > Back To Lurking, >e > :) jck > John Koska > Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -$ >   A Member of the LexisNexis Group > 1275 BroadwayD > Albany, NY  122042 > USAc > 518-487-3255 > John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.comc >k+ > I post personal opinion only, and all theo, > disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That* > includes, I speak for myself only and my+ > views in no way represent my employer(s). - > One should also take note of the ElectronicN+ > Communications Privacy Act of 1986, which - > imposes civil and criminal liability on anyA* > person who intentionally intercepts "any* > wire, oral or electronic communication."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:42:31 -0500l- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS book in bookstores ( Message-ID: <3C052205.64E338AA@ohio.edu>  H Because of the stability of VMS, I would expect that a book on 7.1 would) be thoroughly useful for quite some time.                    RDP      Bernard Straehl wrote:   > Hi > > > I'm looking for books on OpenVMS. There is one that might beE > interesting: "Sethi J: Open VMS Performance Management" that shouldcH > have been published in 2000. But it wasn't, but why? Does any one have > an explanation? D > Just the one published 1995 is still available but this one treatsG > just till VMS 7.1 and we have in our company OpenVMS 7.3 running. Can H > anyone give me a hint on newer books treating this version of OpenVMS? >  > thanks   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:10:03 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion) Message-ID: <3C04D41B.6C91BC92@127.0.0.1>o   Keith Brown wrote: >  > John Santos wrote: >    > > - > > Hmmm...  Sharks eat penguins, don't they?  > >  > $ > Sharks eat just about anything ;-) >   ) Any sharks been spotted near Redmond? :-)    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:39:10 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion* Message-ID: <3C04F70E.9C75C2F@hsc.vcu.edu>  D There was this murder case in Australia where apparently a shark was caught by an aquarium.E They have a fiendish ability to eat something, tuck it away, preserven= it, and digest other things later, and NOT the previous meal.   E Six months later, the shark barfs up a human arm, preserved enough to  see that it was CUT off.  H followint the tattos on the arm, they back-tracked, caught and convicted the killers.  D I have no idea if this is true or not, but it makes a good story!!!!   Jim    Keith Brown wrote: >  > John Santos wrote: > - > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Fabio Cardoso wrote:  > > 3 > >> I dont know if do you agree, but I feel a lackn > >> of identity in OpenVMS. > >>3 > >> In the lauch of  OpenVMS for Itanium I suggest , > >> to create an official logo for OpenVMS. > >>7 > >> Should be a new "Shark" or even a Intel like logo:  > >>( > >> "Itanium powers OpenVMS"... etc ... > >>7 > >> What do you think ? In these times of Penguins and 3 > >> "Windows" logos, I believe it is important for 9 > >> OpenVMS : even a standard font to write OpenVMS - noo  > >> Coca Cola fonts please ! :) > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> FC  > >p- > > Hmmm...  Sharks eat penguins, don't they?  > >  > $ > Sharks eat just about anything ;-) >  > --
 > Keith Browni > kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:45:45 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion@ Message-ID: <20011128144545.26628.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  / Yes it is true. Another day I read in a news=20 ' that some fisherman openend a shark and * discovered a human head inside the animal.    0 But I am talkin serious about the "OpenVMS Logo" or somethin similar ...=202 I dont know if it is the right time to think about0 this, but if the merger of HP happens, should be a good moment.       Regards    FC=20 ( --- Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> wrote:/ > There was this murder case in Australia where  > apparently a shark was > caught by an aquarium.5 > They have a fiendish ability to eat something, tuck  > it away, preserveu0 > it, and digest other things later, and NOT the > previous meal. >=203 > Six months later, the shark barfs up a human arm,  > preserved enough to  > see that it was CUT off. >=205 > followint the tattos on the arm, they back-tracked,  > caught and convicted > the killers. >=205 > I have no idea if this is true or not, but it makes  > a good story!!!! >=20 > Jimm >=20 > Keith Brown wrote: > >=20 > > John Santos wrote: > >=20/ > > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Fabio Cardoso wrote:  > > > 5 > > >> I dont know if do you agree, but I feel a lack  > > >> of identity in OpenVMS. > > >>5 > > >> In the lauch of  OpenVMS for Itanium I suggest . > > >> to create an official logo for OpenVMS. > > >>3 > > >> Should be a new "Shark" or even a Intel like  > logo:  > > >>* > > >> "Itanium powers OpenVMS"... etc ... > > >>5 > > >> What do you think ? In these times of Penguinsp > and 5 > > >> "Windows" logos, I believe it is important for 6 > > >> OpenVMS : even a standard font to write OpenVMS > - no" > > >> Coca Cola fonts please ! :) > > >> > > >> Regards > > >>	 > > >> FC  > > > / > > > Hmmm...  Sharks eat penguins, don't they?p > > >  > >=20& > > Sharks eat just about anything ;-) > >=20 > > -- > > Keith Browns > > kbrown780@isd.net      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?E Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.h# http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 17:14:07 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)d6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion+ Message-ID: <9u360v$224$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  ) In article <3C04D41B.6C91BC92@127.0.0.1>, +  Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:n |> |> m, |> Any sharks been spotted near Redmond? :-) |>    = Nope.  they avoid the area for the same reason they don't eat  lawyers, professional courtesy.M   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:08:40 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS for Itanium: Marketing Suggestion; Message-ID: <Y57N7.1168$29.1322313@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messageh: news:20011128144545.26628.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com..., Yes it is true. Another day I read in a news' that some fisherman openend a shark and * discovered a human head inside the animal.  4 Hmmm... did the human head have big front teeth? ;-}   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 18:47:58 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 3 Subject: OT: Andrew Harrison : Alive & Still At SUN ' Message-ID: <9u3bgu$9v7$4@joe.rice.edu>  Keywords: andrew,harrisonw  C I got a reply from Andrew from an email to Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM. ? He's switched offices and doesn't have access to a NNTP server.   = He was surprised that Fred Kleinsorge really asked about him.    --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:41:10 -0800! From: msalapic@yahoo.com (mislav)  Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS= Message-ID: <be17736d.0111281041.12594bcc@posting.google.com>   = i am naval architecture engineer and i want to find manual of E TRIBON.if it possible answer send me on my mail: mislav_385@yahoo.coms
 thank you     m hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<NDVM7.2019$RL6.62489@news.cpqcorp.net>... _ > In article <9u0v9n$dk4@news.or.intel.com>, "Mike O'Malley" <mike.l.omalley@intel.com> writes: H > :Can someone please point me to the location of a PGP port to OpenVMS. > C >   According to google, some of the following will be of interest:  > 0 >     http://finerty.net/pjf/crypto/vms-pgp.html+ >     http://www.pl.pgpi.org/platforms/vms/C: >     http://www.radiusnet.net/crypto/archive/pgp/vax-vms/- >     http://www.antinode.org/dec/sw/pgp.htmlnL >     http://www.funet.fi/pub/crypt/cryptography/pgp/OLD/vax-vms/README.html	 >     ...a > K >   Various of the existing (busted) PGP links in the FAQ and these new PGPlL >   URLs were recently forwarded to the clown that is currently maintaining L >   the OpenVMS FAQ, so that folks (well, those folks that do actually read B >   the FAQ :-) don't encounter this (particular) confusion again. > M >   You'll also want to look at/for GnuPG, as well.  I do not know if a port  ( >   of that tool exists for OpenVMS yet. >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:44:53 -0800( From: steve_p@trigent.com (Steve Porter)2 Subject: Problem fseeking a 4.2 million block file= Message-ID: <4983a326.0111281044.688c9ddd@posting.google.com>    Hello,  ? I have an application that performs an fseek on a file that has-E recently grown to be 4.2 million blocks.  The VMS version is 7.1; theiF application uses DEC C V6.0-001. Does anybody know of any issues fseekF has accessing a file this large?  Since fseek expects a signed int forA the offset, will there be a problem if the offset passed in is so @ large it 'overwrites' the sign bit?  Will this affect subsequentA fseeks, assuming all fseeks start from the beginning of the file?   
 Thanks, Steve    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 04:52:18 -08001 From: dmitry_bessonov@yahoo.com (Dmitry Bessonov) - Subject: Q: How to check if a file is opened? = Message-ID: <a85679c0.0111280452.1a072458@posting.google.com>e  F A file is opened and can be seen in SHOW DEVICE/FILES output. Is thereE a way to determine in DCL command procedure, if the file is opened onE. this node or not? I thought it can be done viaA F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("filespec","LOCKED") but apparently it's not: I 4 tried it on the file that is opened by a process butD F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("filespec","LOCKED") returns "FALSE". I don't wantF to redirect output of SHOW DEVICE/FILES to a file. Any help is greatly appreciated,   Dmitry Bessonovc Commerzbank (Eurasija) SAO IT Services  14/2 Kadashevskaya nab.  Moscow 109017 Russia -------------------------------  dmitry.bessonov@commerzbank.com  Phone: +7 095 797 4837   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:39:19 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: Q: How to check if a file is opened? ) Message-ID: <3C04E907.1644B987@127.0.0.1>    Dmitry Bessonov wrote: > H > A file is opened and can be seen in SHOW DEVICE/FILES output. Is thereG > a way to determine in DCL command procedure, if the file is opened on 0 > this node or not? I thought it can be done via  ? It the file is opened using DCL, an F$TRNLNM("logical-name") is 
 non-blank.   e.g.  + $ OPEN/READ datafile disk:[dir]filename.ext  ... 4 $ IF F$TRNLNM("datafile").NES."" THEN CLOSE datafile  G Perhaps if your application also uses a logical name, you can translate 4 that logical for that processes' logical name table?   -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:15:58 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)g1 Subject: Re: Q: How to check if a file is opened? 3 Message-ID: <ngfJnGkB5JF2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3C04E907.1644B987@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Dmitry Bessonov wrote: >>  I >> A file is opened and can be seen in SHOW DEVICE/FILES output. Is there H >> a way to determine in DCL command procedure, if the file is opened on1 >> this node or not? I thought it can be done viaa > A > It the file is opened using DCL, an F$TRNLNM("logical-name") isi > non-blank. >  > e.g. > - > $ OPEN/READ datafile disk:[dir]filename.extS > ... 6 > $ IF F$TRNLNM("datafile").NES."" THEN CLOSE datafile > I > Perhaps if your application also uses a logical name, you can translate-6 > that logical for that processes' logical name table? >   @ 	I used to do that one... but then stumbled upon the more better) 	way.  I always have something like this:s   	$ close/nolog datafiles, 	$ open/read datafile disk:[dir]filename.dat  = 	All these are running in batch so it works.  If interactive,f@ 	of course you would place a close/nolog after the open.  Saves  	keystrokes.   				Rob-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:31:59 -0500.* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>1 Subject: RE: Q: How to check if a file is opened?h- Message-ID: <0033000042947307000002L072*@MHS>>  % =0AHere's an example of how I did it.b  5 I wanted it to *not* be open, so I used .nes. to make  that option come up first.    It's kinda kludgy, but it works.  A $ show dev/files/nosystem/out=3Dxtmp.txt disk_that_the_file_is_on : $ search/nooutput xtmp.txt filename_you_want_to_know_about  $ file_search_status =3D $status* $ if file_search_status .nes. "%X00000001" $ then  9   [then filename_you_want_to_know_about doesn't appear ina9    the search, which means that the file *isn't* opened.]h   $ else     [file is open]   $ endife   $ delete/nolog xtmp.txt;*.   Hope this helps,   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe* Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:53 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET1 Subject: RE: Q: How to check if a file is opened?      Dmitry Bessonov wrote: > H > A file is opened and can be seen in SHOW DEVICE/FILES output. Is ther= eiH > a way to determine in DCL command procedure, if the file is opened on=  0 > this node or not? I thought it can be done via  ? It the file is opened using DCL, an F$TRNLNM("logical-name") iss
 non-blank.   e.g.  + $ OPEN/READ datafile disk:[dir]filename.extn ..4 $ IF F$TRNLNM("datafile").NES."" THEN CLOSE datafile  H Perhaps if your application also uses a logical name, you can translate=  4 that logical for that processes' logical name table?   --( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:24:58 +0100a. From: "Eric Chatelard" <piper.lyon@wanadoo.fr>( Subject: remote connection and pathworks% Message-ID: <9u2vn2$ptf$1@wanadoo.fr>e   Hi,m  E I'm still trying to make a remote connection via a PC running Windowsg' 98/TCPIP to an alpha server running VMSn% 7.1-2 Tcp/IP 5.0 and Pathworks V6.0B. . I thought that this was not a hard job to do !  J I've defined the logical  PWRK$KNBDAEMON_DEVICE  to PP0 ( i am not sure if PP0 is right or not ).* The modem is connected to serial line TTA0D I've defined two ip address for my alpha ( 192.168.1.100 for ewa-0 ,9 12.12.12.202 for PP0 and the same subnet 255.255.255.0 ). 6 I've added to Lmhost file the remote PC's ip and name.  K I can connect to my server and open a telnet session or ftp but i can't seey@ the share >> net view \\myserver >> err 53 computer unreachable.     Thanks for help.   Eric   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:43:24 -0700p- From: "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us>i, Subject: RE: remote connection and pathworks@ Message-ID: <1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D09@DOAISD02003>  K Pathworks binds to the first TCP interface that it sees, it can only run on  one interface.     > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Eric Chatelard [mailto:piper.lyon@wanadoo.fr]m, > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:25 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn* > Subject: remote connection and pathworks >  >  > Hi,t > G > I'm still trying to make a remote connection via a PC running Windows ) > 98/TCPIP to an alpha server running VMSs' > 7.1-2 Tcp/IP 5.0 and Pathworks V6.0B.i0 > I thought that this was not a hard job to do ! > > > I've defined the logical  PWRK$KNBDAEMON_DEVICE  to PP0 ( i  > am not sure if > PP0 is right or not )., > The modem is connected to serial line TTA0F > I've defined two ip address for my alpha ( 192.168.1.100 for ewa-0 ,; > 12.12.12.202 for PP0 and the same subnet 255.255.255.0 ).f8 > I've added to Lmhost file the remote PC's ip and name. > > > I can connect to my server and open a telnet session or ftp  > but i can't seeiB > the share >> net view \\myserver >> err 53 computer unreachable. >  >  > Thanks for help. >  > Eric >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:25:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tB Subject: Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system., Message-ID: <3C0501DE.A565744C@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:8 > > Where is Andrew?  Come on?  We need the expert here.  L > It's entirely possible that he's merely decided that Compaq's actions haveM > succeeded in making VMS sufficiently irrelevant that spending any more timee > here would be a waste. .    G But wouldn't he at least posted a "I TOLD YOU SO" before leaving ??????-   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 14:38:47 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a$ Subject: RE: Some Multia Help needed, Message-ID: <9u2stn$2v7t$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  @ I may not have been clear about what my PCI riser looks like, so1 I have put a couple of pictures up on my webpage:j0    http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Multia/side1.jpg0    http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Multia/side2.jpg  H If you look at these, you can clearly see the locations where it appearsF a 50pin berg connector and a PCI connector could be put.  You can alsoH see where the ribbon cable for the internal drive was pulled off.  ThereF does not appear to be any other empty locations on the board, so can IF assum that all the necessary glue is present and putting connectors onG this riser would functional??  In particular, I am looking for a way toiK have external SCSI so I can put a CDROM on it (and likely external disks as > they are very likely easier to deal with than internal disks.)  
 Thanks again.l   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:14:05 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>nN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C048DFF.BF7DD1D6@cableinet.co.uk>    John McLean wrote:  uH > - VMS people are in short supply, what's the point in keeping a box if% > they can't get the people to run its >   H If VMS people are in such short supply then how come rates in the UK are lower E than for unix or Oracle DBA positions, and how come you can't get VMSF work in the 4 city without prior banking experience at the moment?   -- s Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of -! my employers or service provider.5   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:33:16 +0010R' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>iN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org5 Message-ID: <01KB8WW1OCJM000V2P@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>h   John McLean wrote:   H > - VMS people are in short supply, what's the point in keeping a box if% > they can't get the people to run iti  J From what I've read of David Dachtera's posts, it's the job opportunities H not the people which are in short supply.  Other than David, there must 9 surely be a lot of other consultants unable to find work.    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:06:11 +0000h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org) Message-ID: <3C04B713.6E082E24@127.0.0.1>r   Jeff Killeen wrote:h  M > Let me wrap-up with this  - assume Compaq delivers on its promise that IA64 N > is only a compile away and delivers IA64 based servers running OVMS or Tru64N > that is equal to or better than the competition in price performance.  GrantN > the assumption for the moment.  Do you think many will care that OVMS is nowI > running on IA64 versus Alpha.  If it is only a  recompile away, and thedE > price performance is there, what rational business reason would anyn@ > unemotional person have for caring it is not running on Alpha?  D In the solution delivery world in which I live this is so true. ThisC extends _well_outside_ the VMS world to intel compatible solutions,tD where alternatives exist, there is very little brand loyalty in thisH business. The port to the Intel architecture is good news, because it isF extending where VMS can be used. Our UNIX world is similarly affected.  H Some, no, most of our clients couldn't care less if VMS was running on aG Bambleweeny-57 with a really hot cup of tea. Same applies to M$ Wx[xx]. F In some cases they don't even care what the application is, never mind the underlying OS.  H Apart from the one that "_can't_wait_" for VMS to be available on Intel.   -- D( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:43:42 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgA Message-ID: <yd3N7.76195$uB.12000753@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>s  @ "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message) news:3C048DFF.BF7DD1D6@cableinet.co.uk...  >a >  > John McLean wrote: > J > > - VMS people are in short supply, what's the point in keeping a box if' > > they can't get the people to run itD > >3 >$J > If VMS people are in such short supply then how come rates in the UK are > lowereG > than for unix or Oracle DBA positions, and how come you can't get VMS 
 > work in the>6 > city without prior banking experience at the moment?  L I don't know the answer, but it *could* be because  a) VMS is so stable thatH as long as you don't commit to doing anything new with it (and who wouldJ given the way its owner treats it?) it requires really minimal shepherdingL and/or  b) many remaining users are loath to put much money or effort into aI platform they are moving away from dependence on as fast as they can.  AsmJ for the requirement for non-VMS experience as well, that could follow fromI the second point (given an alternative, a company wouldn't choose to hire.K someone without skills that would be useful for an indefinite period - evenhI a contractor is someone with whom a potentially on-going relationship hase( more value than a known short-term one).  D That's the demand side of the death-spiral.  The supply side is moreJ obvious:  seeing the decreased interest in VMS and funding development andA advertising less because of it, rather than recognizing that withiI *increases* in development and promotion the still-lucrative market would > instead expand (and the demand-side death-spiral be reversed).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:54:09 +0100e$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <kk4N7.46$BD4.5085@news.get2net.dk>-   Fred,-  J "Not fair" ?  I do not think this is accurate and would like to understandG why you think it is so.  My "argument" as such is that Bill does a muchtH better job of "arguing" than Jeff, and that Jeff's opt-out is ad hominemG attack. This is the classic retreat of the intellectually bankrupt whenoF faced with argument such as Bill for the most part presents.  Jeff hasJ continued in the same vein despite my (and others) admonishments. I rejectH this form of argument (attack) as invalid per se (see my previous post).  I "Self importance" ?  Which part of my message indicated that ?  If you dopD not like my prose, say so, however having a more than a monosyllabicI vocabulary is a sign of many things, none of which is the aforementioned.pJ Also, I am not the only one who has admonished the antagonists for abusingE each other.  Otherwise I do not understand from where you derive this  comment.  I "Compulsion" ?  I think objectively, the set of compulsive individuals in J this thread, exclude myself.  The evidence (number and frequency of posts)J is clear and unequivocal.  At least up until now, the antagonists have letL very few comments go unanswered - except Jeff seems to have failed to answer mine.   J "Justified" ?  If I felt the need to justify something which I know on theK basis of the evidence - exactly two posts, available for everyone to read -f> is clearly untrue, then I would use those 2 posts as evidence.    L Please read first major section of my first post as if it was the first postK you read in this thread - clear your mind.  Then read Jeff's response.  You-K find precious little rational or logical response to the commentary, merelySF a rehash of what Jeff has said many times about the "substance" of hisJ position.  My post was largely (though not completely), specifically *not*L about the substance of his or Bills position but about how they (and others)L have been going about it.  There is exactly zero substantive response to theJ ACTUAL post.  Equally, there has been exactly zero response to my responseI to Jeff's said non-repsonse.  In fact, only a later post claiming he willoI not respond, apparently deriding me for anonymity.  Just call me Pavel if G you would like a name to hang on me, though I like Dr. Dweeb better.  IlE postulate his inability/unwillingness to respond as indicative of hissK inability and/or unwillingness to indulge in an abstract debate - one aboutrF form not substance.  I will be happy to be proved wrong on this point.  H It is blatantly obvious (at least to me, and I believe any dispassionateI observer) that he either did not read, did not understand or chose not to K understand (and thus ignore) the substance of my post and my reply.  PleasepL point to contrary evidence in Jeff's post - I may have missed it.  I set himB up, he fell in head first and was drowned - figuratively speaking.  K Finally, you might note that if I have sided with either of the antagonistspI analyses in any substantive way, it has been with Jeff on his substantive L thesis that customers do not care about the underlying CPU (though with someK minor modification of the expected final outcome) and with Bill in terms of I ability to clearly formulate and substantiate his position.  I think BillsI does a better job of deconstruction of the CompaQ spin than Jeff, becausebE Jeff does not try - he believes it to start with.  A dubious point of- departure for debate.,  K Later posts from Jeff where he again throws disparaging commentary at Bills:L "ex-DEC" credential, his inability to distinguish between Digital and CompaQI and the list goes on and on and on are sufficient for me at least to takeiB the same moral/intellectual high ground, and dismiss his very weakB arguments - even though I might agree with final opinion/analyses.   Back to work ...   Dweeb.@ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:ukTM7.2011$RL6.62015@news.cpqcorp.net...d > Ah, but not fair - > H > How are we to tell if your self importance, and compulsion to show how& > intellectual you are - is justified? >rK > So far your argument is based on your belief that Jeff isn't competent tod, > argue with you on some intellectual level. >  >  >  > ! > Dr. Dweeb. wrote in message ...a > >Bill, > > > > >I do not believe we are acquainted.  The world is very big. > >: > >I have responeded to Jeff.i > >nK > >I apologise for the pseudonym.  I thought it better to be nameless while4& > >inserting myself into the "debate". > >h > >p.. > >>8 > >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message> > >news:sLRM7.76176$8q.10299019@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...K > >> I'd thank you privately, if your email address weren't fabricated, for F > >> taking the time to present in detail what I often haven't had the
 > patienceJ > >> to.  Given your 20+ years in the DECpaq world, do we know each other? > >YourdI > >> prose (and pseudonym) reminds me a bit of one RH I once worked with.S > >> > >> - bille > >>5 > >> "Dr. Dweeb." <Dweeb@nospam.com> wrote in messager. > >> news:6NQM7.98$G53.9276@news.get2net.dk... > >> > >> > >> > >  > >e >o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:54:20 +0100m$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <uk4N7.47$BD4.5264@news.get2net.dk>r   Excellent post.a  J When evaluating the quality of an assertion about an unknown future, it isJ often wise to examine previous assertions from the same source, if only toI understand the historical perspective.  A consistent pattern of behaviournK and result (wild claims and non-delivery in this case) should send warningso to the prudent.    Dweeb.4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:27NOV200121484900@gerg.tamu.edu...,1 > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes...tI > }In article <26NOV200123190199@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carla Perkins) writes:3 > }> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes...a7 > }> }"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagen+ > }> }> I know enough of Fenwick to know...a > }> }>h< > }> }> 1) He had the data and folks outside of Compaq don't > }> }I > }> }But the Alpha engineering team certainly did, and without exception- they7 > }> }have said that Compaq's assertions were bullshit.t > }>A > }> Not only that, but he also clearly didn't have all the data.  > }>C > }> Half of the info involved is about the IPF. The information heeE > }> had on this must have been what *Intel* told him, as I seriouslyp@ > }> doubt that he was given unrestricted access to their actualB > }> detailed design information, status reports, etc. It is clearB > }> that Intel has been spewing huge quantities of misinformationB > }> about the IPF for a long time (like, say, when the processorsE > }> would actually be available, what the clock speeds would be, andN= > }> what the performance at any given clock speed would be).l > }> > }o > } Misinformation?  So what!r >l* > So anybody who believes them is a moron. >lG > } Maybe they only hit 15 GHz in a few years instead of 20.  But IntelsJ > } is openly talking about 20 GHz in their Terahertz project... Terahertz > } by decade end. > D > So what? First, see my response just up above. Note that they wereG > "openly talking" about the Itanium several years before they actuallygG > managed to build one. Talk is cheap (or perhaps you still beleive thepE > roadmaps Compaq talked about for the Alpha prior to the Alphacide -hH > when is EV8 coming out again?). Also, Intel has no monopoly on processK > technology (IBM often demonstrates new things before Intel does). Besides G > which, Alpha doesn't have to match them. It doesn't match them *now*,aG > and it is faster than the Itanium. What technology (as in things like5H > process size, SOI, copper interconnect, etc.) is EV68 built with? WhatJ > technology is Itanium built with? You'll find that the Alpha is at leastI > a full generation behind, I think it's probably more like 2 behind. Yetn > it is faster.r > I > } What might have taken place was serious NDA with process technologies B > } , nevermind other things.  Take any CPU out there and pump GHz= > } at it , hang fast caches off it and you have a contender.2 > } Rob2 >@D > Ah, I see. That's all you have to do. So tell us: if it is so easyE > to do this, why is it that Itanium came out at such a low MHz level-E > and why is it that McKinley has had the speed it will be introducedsE > at reduced from the originally talked about 1.4GHz down to probably:> > 1.0GHz? Do you really think 1.0GHz is pumping the GHz at it? >rA > And while you're at it, tell us this: if it is so easy, why wasPF > Merced some 5 years late (and, even with an extra 5 years to work on > it, still slow)? >tG > Perhaps the reason is this: it is easy to post messages to newsgroupsAF > saying "all you have to do is...", but it is not easy to actually doF > it. Intel's record with the IPF is pitifully bad. Their demonstratedE > ability to acurately indicate how well it will do in the future hastE > been pitifully bad. Anybody who uses what Intel says about how fasteJ > their chips will be years in the future to make decisions in the present
 > is a moron.u > E > As long as you're believing people who tell you things that are notcF > believable, here's another one for you. In 6 years I will personallyE > invent a CPU that will outperform anything Intel makes at that time F > by a factor of 17 times and it will use a quarter the power and costE > less than half as much to produce. Now you should go tell everybody4G > that Intel is doomed since they won't be able to keep up - after all,nF > somebody you have no reason to believe, and plenty of reason not to, > told you so. >i
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:54:27 +0100e$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <Bk4N7.48$BD4.5117@news.get2net.dk>:  I Please tell us the answer, I do not have the time to look, and I would be  interested to know.e   Dweeb 9 "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net> wrote in messagea@ news:KvZM7.10527$WC1.1306358@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... >u3 > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagel3 > news:8gLM7.2434$zf.233455@typhoon2.gnilink.net...uH > > The issue isn't whether Alpha would have stayed ahead.  The issue is wouldtI > > have Alpha stayed ahead by enough so that the business reward equaled  bothF > > the business risk and the business investment that went along with > > continuing Alpha.  > >t > J > Oh, that is simple.  Look at Intel pricing for Itanium or high end xeon.J > Now calculate what the Compaq cost per part was for Alpha.  You may come up > with interesting numbers.  >e
 > Aaron Spinks" > not speaking for Compaq or Intel >x >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:55:02 +0100)$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <8l4N7.49$BD4.5154@news.get2net.dk>s  L Sadly, I have known many very good VMS consultants and I am the last who nowH works with VMS.  Indeed a number of them actually work *for* rather thanG just with the products of the Great Vole of software.  Good talent lostt# because they have families to feed.s  E As I commented before, CompaQ incompetence and duplicity has had, and.6 continues to have, a direct affect on our livelihoods.  K Try doing a search at Jobsrerv.com for "VMS" and take note of the number ofcK and type of positions offered.  Mostly permanent and/or operator positions.tL This is surely a sign that VMS is not "flavour of the month" for developmentD dollars.  I will not get into the discussion of why, this is just an observation.   Dweeb.2 <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message/ news:01KB8WW1OCJM000V2P@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au...  > John McLean wrote: >eJ > > - VMS people are in short supply, what's the point in keeping a box if' > > they can't get the people to run itd >oK > From what I've read of David Dachtera's posts, it's the job opportunitiesKI > not the people which are in short supply.  Other than David, there must.; > surely be a lot of other consultants unable to find work.r >u > Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:53:52 +0000a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org) Message-ID: <3C04D050.1A601A83@127.0.0.1>r   Alan Greig wrote:o >   ? > Nothing in Doug Williams presentation on the Alpha-IPF switcheH > suggested that the Alpha could not continue to outpace the IA64 for atG > least the next three years. In fact, when pressed, Doug admitted thattF > they could probably keep Alpha ahead of the game (but not by much heF > said) for between five and ten years had they executed the EV8 plan.   Alan,I  G Do you recall where Doug talked (briefly) about patent infringement? He E spoke about the original Digital-Intel fiasco, and did say two of ther@ patents were his, but he also, sort-of under his breath, mumbled something around EV8.   G It was also when he was mentioning Alpha engineers moving [of their ownnG accord] to AMD and Intel, among other chip manufacturers. Personally, I = guess that is another factor, with the chip business being so G competitive. I doubt Alpha engineers wouldn't be so mercenary as not to H turn down a nice paycheque, and didn't Doug indicate / intimate this had been happening?v  C (Not trying to justify anything, but I'd love to see a "Rock Familyt< Trees" equivalent of processor designs and the people in the bands^H^H^H^H^H design teams). -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:06:57 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <By3SEWQlq8KJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>V  W In article <27NOV200121484900@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:s   > I > }	What might have taken place was serious NDA with process technologiesMB > }	, nevermind other things.  Take any CPU out there and pump GHz= > }	at it , hang fast caches off it and you have a contender.s
 > }				Rob > D > Ah, I see. That's all you have to do. So tell us: if it is so easyE > to do this, why is it that Itanium came out at such a low MHz levelbE > and why is it that McKinley has had the speed it will be introducedeE > at reduced from the originally talked about 1.4GHz down to probablyg> > 1.0GHz? Do you really think 1.0GHz is pumping the GHz at it? >   : 	I don't believe I used the word "easy" anywhere in there.  A > And while you're at it, tell us this: if it is so easy, why wasoF > Merced some 5 years late (and, even with an extra 5 years to work on > it, still slow)?   	Merced is Dead.   > G > Perhaps the reason is this: it is easy to post messages to newsgroupsnF > saying "all you have to do is...", but it is not easy to actually doF > it. Intel's record with the IPF is pitifully bad. Their demonstratedE > ability to acurately indicate how well it will do in the future hasrE > been pitifully bad. Anybody who uses what Intel says about how fast-J > their chips will be years in the future to make decisions in the present
 > is a moron.o >   8 	Past history is not an indicator of future performance.  E > As long as you're believing people who tell you things that are nothF > believable, here's another one for you. In 6 years I will personallyE > invent a CPU that will outperform anything Intel makes at that timepF > by a factor of 17 times and it will use a quarter the power and costE > less than half as much to produce. Now you should go tell everybodynG > that Intel is doomed since they won't be able to keep up - after all,aF > somebody you have no reason to believe, and plenty of reason not to, > told you so. >   - 	Let me guess... you used to work for Elbrus?2   				Rob1   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:14:04 -0500I- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3C04FF3B.A293FE59@videotron.ca>   John Santos wrote:@ > work fine.  So how do all the Alphas at initial boot time knowB > which situation will prevail, and start doing all the stuff that > won't work with VAXes?  N Ok fair point, VMS on alpha has to be aware that VMS on VAX is a "few versionsH behind" since it doesn't have many of the new things and as such it must? support the ability to allow a VAX to participate in a cluster.f  K But I don't see this as an IA64-ALPHA issue, I see this as a "VMS on VAX ise lagging behind" issue.  K Again, since the code base for Alpha and IA64 is supposedly going to be the I same, any existing VAX support on Alpha for clustering will inherently behL present on IA64. And if it breaks on IA64, shouldn't it logically also break
 on Alpha ?  N And is this issue a subtle hint that VMS on VAX will soon be considered matureN and will no longer be tweaked to remain compatible with subsequent versions ofM VMS on IA64, and eventually it will not be able to cluster with it, just likeoM too old a VMS version on one node prevents it from participating in a clustert3 made up of nodes running a younger version of VMS ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:33:31 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3C0503C9.5488110C@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:sM > Maybe Todd is finally getting it.  Are you willing to acknowledge that whattN > the market values is the amount of computing punch for the dollars expended?L > If your answer is no then why would the market care about your assumption?  H In the past, corporations viewed computing in the same way as building aK tower. You know the building will last a long time so you need to have verysH strong foundations and a very good design that will keep the tower up noF matter what weather comes, and you will also have to have the means toM renovate floors and perhaps add a few more floors later on. And then once allrC of the structure is done and proven solid, you add the decorations.a  G In the past, the folks knew that initially all the money spent would goeN towards less interesting stuff such as structural beams, concrete, digging forK foundations etc. But they realised that such work was necessary to ensure agI long term success of the tower and that they wouldn't have to rebuild onew every couple of years.  J But now, the short term nature of Wall Street Casino tells folks that theyK must get the latest and cheapest ASAP and make sure that it's get the bellsnG and whistles. They no longer concentrate on building a strong long term M foundation anymore. And people have gotten used to re-installing Windows fromm+ scratch whenever some application crashes. s  I But guess what, even if they must rebuild their buildings every couple of I weeks, they still are the ones who are first with the bells and whistles,aI while the serious shops build rock solid long term strategies where thosec( bells and whistles will only come later.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:14:26 +0000r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>dN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <7dv90usl7oebkbc0c1vk0f58e5rbps8ar0@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:53:52 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >o >Alan, >fH >Do you recall where Doug talked (briefly) about patent infringement? HeF >spoke about the original Digital-Intel fiasco, and did say two of theA >patents were his, but he also, sort-of under his breath, mumbledh >something around EV8.  A Yes I remember he mumbled something about EV8 but wasn't too if IiD misheard. If you heard as well then I guess he said it. Wonder if he1 was a senior EV8 designer who stayed with Compaq.t      D >(Not trying to justify anything, but I'd love to see a "Rock Family= >Trees" equivalent of processor designs and the people in theo >bands^H^H^H^H^H design teams).u  A Now that would be interesting. Could get almost as complex as theu "Yes" family tree....t -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:45:12 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>IN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3C050685.1C8CFADB@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:i1 > > tells me it won't be "only a recompile away".  > I > If Compaq induces significant pain into this game over - OVMS will die.   M Compaq is aware that if it takes THE decision to officially kill VMS, that it G will retain just a small percentage of customers with the vast majorityo/ flocking to vendors not associated with Compaq.t  G But consider a situation where Compaq announces a port to IA64 and some L "commitment" to VMS, but when customers consider their own internal costs ofG doing such a migration, they consider perhaps ditching their old legacy M solution and going with a mainstream package, at that point, they will not be7K so angry at Compaq and Compaq then stands a much better chance at retaining-6 these customers and selling them an NT based solution.    M The way I see it, when Compaq bought Digital, it emprisoned its customers andaL will now proceed with releasing only those willing to go to NT. Meanwhile itN continues to feed the prisoners just enough to prevent a mass revolt which mayG lead to an escape attempt whcih would result in Compaq losing them. ThetL problem is that while the VMS customers are emprisonned in the bowels of the ship, the ship is sinking...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:06:16 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org6 Message-ID: <YX7N7.608$h24.58835@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C0503C9.5488110C@videotron.ca...J > In the past, corporations viewed computing in the same way as building aH > tower. You know the building will last a long time so you need to have veryJ > strong foundations and a very good design that will keep the tower up noH > matter what weather comes, and you will also have to have the means toK > renovate floors and perhaps add a few more floors later on. And then oncet all E > of the structure is done and proven solid, you add the decorations.f  J Let me share with you what the typical USA Fortune 100 CIO would say about this...e  L 1) Strong foundations were viable when technology lifecycles were 3-5 years.( Today they can be as short as 18 months.  < 2) Applications, and not base technology, are the key today.  K 3) If delaying deploying an application, that gives my business competitiver? advantage, is delayed by preserving the design of my current IT G infrastructure I have cost my business major lost opportunity costs andaK potentially market share.  The cost of that far out weighs any other issue.   I The important part isn't whether you agree with the above.  The importantlJ part is know the senior management of IBM, Compaq, HP, and SUN are gettingD their market input from IT professionals who think like the above...    K > But guess what, even if they must rebuild their buildings every couple of  > weeks,  K And if you were an IT supplier would you view that as a good thing or a badd thing?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:13:14 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>iN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org5 Message-ID: <3C051B2A.AC429BC3@swissonline.delete.ch>e   Tim Llewellyn wrote: ...t  P > If VMS people are in such short supply then how come rates in the UK are lowerS > than for unix or Oracle DBA positions, and how come you can't get VMS work in thet6 > city without prior banking experience at the moment?  4 Probably a chiken-and-egg scenario but in reverse.    F VMS people leave the business but sites don't drop VMS ==> higher pay > Sites drop VMS but VMS professionals don't leave ==> lower pay  B There's probably been a reasonable oscillation on both sides for aG number of years ut right now I woud guess that Compaq's statements haveaE tipped the balance somewhat.  Any site that was undecided before June F 25th has probably made up its mind and I suspect that if they were notA totally commited to VMS for some major part of their business ...      John  & PS.  Sorry about the delayed response.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:34:58 -0500l5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>lN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <%h9N7.2054$RL6.62621@news.cpqcorp.net>t   Dr. Dweeb wrote in message ... >Fred, >hK >"Not fair" ?  I do not think this is accurate and would like to understandiH >why you think it is so.  My "argument" as such is that Bill does a muchI >better job of "arguing" than Jeff, and that Jeff's opt-out is ad hominem H >attack. This is the classic retreat of the intellectually bankrupt whenG >faced with argument such as Bill for the most part presents.  Jeff hasrK >continued in the same vein despite my (and others) admonishments. I rejecteI >this form of argument (attack) as invalid per se (see my previous post).h >o  J >"Self importance" ?  Which part of my message indicated that ?  If you doE >not like my prose, say so, however having a more than a monosyllabiclJ >vocabulary is a sign of many things, none of which is the aforementioned.K >Also, I am not the only one who has admonished the antagonists for abusinglF >each other.  Otherwise I do not understand from where you derive this	 >comment.  >s  L First, you insert yourself as the arbiter in a debate.  Concentrating on theE ability of each individual to mount a defense of each position.  This.I argument has been raging for months, and has long since past the point oft rational dialogue.  G Your schoolmaster attitude, and condescension towards someone who has aoK point of view - no matter how well you believe it is articulated - sets your. up for the accusation of being self-important.    J >"Compulsion" ?  I think objectively, the set of compulsive individuals inK >this thread, exclude myself.  The evidence (number and frequency of posts)5K >is clear and unequivocal.  At least up until now, the antagonists have leteF >very few comments go unanswered - except Jeff seems to have failed to answer >mine. >r    K That remains to be seen - as we do not know your identity.  However, I will E grant that I skip about 70% of these posts - especially when half wayoJ through the threads the subject becomes a debate of response to terrorism.  K >"Justified" ?  If I felt the need to justify something which I know on thesL >basis of the evidence - exactly two posts, available for everyone to read -? >is clearly untrue, then I would use those 2 posts as evidence.  >m >DH >Please read first major section of my first post as if it was the first postL >you read in this thread - clear your mind.  Then read Jeff's response.  YouL >find precious little rational or logical response to the commentary, merelyG >a rehash of what Jeff has said many times about the "substance" of hishK >position.  My post was largely (though not completely), specifically *not* E >about the substance of his or Bills position but about how they (andn others)eI >have been going about it.  There is exactly zero substantive response toe thedK >ACTUAL post.  Equally, there has been exactly zero response to my responser >to Jeff's said non-repsonse.e  H I cannot effectively argue with Bill Todd, or you over the merits of theJ decision - both the good and ill - mostly because I am handcuffed by beingH an employee of Compaq, and not being in a position to provide non-publicJ information - as well as not being privvy to all the information that went into the decision.  H On the other hand, neither can Bill, Jeff, or anyone else in this forum.F What each has, is a smattering of real and imagined "facts" as well as
 suppositions.   . >  In fact, only a later post claiming he willJ >not respond, apparently deriding me for anonymity.  Just call me Pavel ifH >you would like a name to hang on me, though I like Dr. Dweeb better.  IF >postulate his inability/unwillingness to respond as indicative of hisL >inability and/or unwillingness to indulge in an abstract debate - one aboutG >form not substance.  I will be happy to be proved wrong on this point.  >s    H I hate debate in the abstract.  I am a horrible at debate in general.  I think most people are.  I >It is blatantly obvious (at least to me, and I believe any dispassionate J >observer) that he either did not read, did not understand or chose not toL >understand (and thus ignore) the substance of my post and my reply.  PleaseI >point to contrary evidence in Jeff's post - I may have missed it.  I setd himEC >up, he fell in head first and was drowned - figuratively speaking.  >eL >Finally, you might note that if I have sided with either of the antagonistsJ >analyses in any substantive way, it has been with Jeff on his substantiveH >thesis that customers do not care about the underlying CPU (though with someL >minor modification of the expected final outcome) and with Bill in terms ofJ >ability to clearly formulate and substantiate his position.  I think BillJ >does a better job of deconstruction of the CompaQ spin than Jeff, becauseF >Jeff does not try - he believes it to start with.  A dubious point of >departure for debate. >     J So what exactly is it that is being debated?  Bill Todd's position is thatJ the Alpha architecture is being prematurely ended by management who eitherD are incompetent, or who are conspiring in some way with Intel and/orL Microsoft to kill the architecture as a competetive threat.  His reaction toF this is to insist that on that basis Compaq should not be trusted, andH unless Alpha is resurrected and management sacked, that customers should abandon OpenVMS.  L Bill's position is that information comming from Compaq is all "spin".  ThatL any information that has become available was designed to justify a decision' already made for more sinister reasons.   J It became obvious that my previous attempts to explain why the decision isK good long term for OpenVMS are unimportant to those with the loud voices inTJ this forum.  I personally am not "happy" about Alpha being phased out, butD it isn't the end of the world.  I can accept that those who made theB decision had valid business reasons, backed by technical analysis.  L >Later posts from Jeff where he again throws disparaging commentary at BillsF >"ex-DEC" credential, his inability to distinguish between Digital and CompaQJ >and the list goes on and on and on are sufficient for me at least to takeC >the same moral/intellectual high ground, and dismiss his very weakxC >arguments - even though I might agree with final opinion/analyses.  >e    J But since Bill's positions rely on what he believes are the motives of theH decision makers, leads one to question the motives of someone who is theC loudest critic in this forum, but who has little or no stake in it.   Disgruntled is a word that fits.  L I have a personal, financial, and emotional stake in seeing OpenVMS continueL into the future.  I am close enough to the management of OpenVMS to say thatF there are no conspiracies *here* in which we are saying one thing, yetI planning something else - like the demise of OpenVMS or of EV7 or Marvel.o  K I have talked to Brannon offline, and understand his position.  I have alsowJ listed to Dave and others explain their positions.  Each has a valid pointH of view.  The decision may be right or wrong, but it is made.  I believeH that despite having been an Alpha bigot since working on V1.0 of OpenVMSL Alpha - that the right long term decision was reached.  I have no great loveK for the Itanium ISA, I expect to be swearing nightly about it while getting L us to the initial boot.  But frankly it isn't all that important in the long run.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 17:56:08 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9u38fo$3cv$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   5 In article <01KB8WW1OCJM000V2P@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>,h*  <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> writes: |> John McLean wrote:t |>  K |> > - VMS people are in short supply, what's the point in keeping a box ifh( |> > they can't get the people to run it |> sM |> From what I've read of David Dachtera's posts, it's the job opportunities  K |> not the people which are in short supply.  Other than David, there must '< |> surely be a lot of other consultants unable to find work.  F We have three (1 veteran who's name most here would recognize and 2 heG has trained) and 15-20 application level programmers working on our VMShG systems now.  What do you think most of them will do when this becomes,nH once again, a Blue shop??  I know of no other VMS shops around here thatG could possibly absorb them.  (The only other VMS shops I know of around A here have either no staff or a single person doing everything.)     * What do you suppose these people will do??G   a) leave the area?  (most of them were born here and jave lived theirnF                        entire lives here outside of going to college.)E   b) re-train onto the IBM??  (most probably hope this option will at 1                                least be offered.)p&   c) start a new career at McDonalds??  C Even taking onto consideration the relatively small segment of thisDD market held by VMS, I don't think most people, even those here, haveC really considered how many people in how many scattered places this  is going to impact.s   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:22:57 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org? Message-ID: <5Y9N7.54128$RG1.29120013@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>r   > Alan Greig wrote:eA > > Nothing in Doug Williams presentation on the Alpha-IPF switchhJ > > suggested that the Alpha could not continue to outpace the IA64 for atI > > least the next three years. In fact, when pressed, Doug admitted thateH > > they could probably keep Alpha ahead of the game (but not by much heH > > said) for between five and ten years had they executed the EV8 plan.   "Nic Clews" wrotet > Alan,u >oI > Do you recall where Doug talked (briefly) about patent infringement? HetG > spoke about the original Digital-Intel fiasco, and did say two of therB > patents were his, but he also, sort-of under his breath, mumbled > something around EV8.  >rI > It was also when he was mentioning Alpha engineers moving [of their own I > accord] to AMD and Intel, among other chip manufacturers. Personally, I ? > guess that is another factor, with the chip business being sohI > competitive. I doubt Alpha engineers wouldn't be so mercenary as not torJ > turn down a nice paycheque, and didn't Doug indicate / intimate this had > been happening? ...2  ? The patent settlement between Digital and Intel, in which Intel = purchased the StrongArm product & team and Alpha foundry, andt@ committed to fab Alpha chips for awhile, included a clause where@ Intel committed to also give jobs to Digital's Alpha chip designD team in the future, if and when Digital decided to drop that effort.@ Compaq inherited those off-loading rights.  That clause is still1 in effect this year, but expires in 2002 or 2003.   ? I imagine this colored Compaq's decisions about how and when to < scale back on Alpha chip design efforts, and maybe on how to< partner with other companies.  It allowed most folks to feel1 somewhat better about firing so many good people.r@ But it likely wasn't a dominant factor; I can't imagine Capellas> letting personal welfare of one team affect the business plan.  ? It's also interesting that HP announced a similar offloading ofd: their PA-RISC and IPF chip design teams to Intel, sometime5 between Compaq's Alphacide announcement and the jointl merger announcement.  8 For HP to unconditionally burn their PA-RISC bridges now7 says something about their expectation about future IPF:4 performance & schedules, based on far better insider7 information than the public has.  They've been burnt by>> Intel many times in the Merced effort, but are being confident5 about future parts anyhow.  Are HP's system designersi5 continuing to be gullible about Intel roadmaps, or do 4 they know things are turning out far better than the5 pessimists say?   Compaq has made identical decisionse5 (and began those before any merger flirting).  Eithero5 both HP and Compaq are gullible about Intel's roadmapC claims, or neither is.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:47:25 GMTo3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>nN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C053063.E8CE4AC1@cableinet.co.uk>y   John McLean wrote: >  Thanks for your comments John.    ( > PS.  Sorry about the delayed response.  8 No problemo. My ISP's news server in on Solaris and they> have long standing performance problems they are attempting to> solve by limiting the number of news client connections. Thus,5 only at off-peak times can I read news at the moment.s  ? sigh. Bob the Builder, can he fix it NO, can he bodge it, SURE.    -- l Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:01:23 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>> Subject: Still Time to Vote on the SKC/Tru64.org IPF Survey #2; Message-ID: <TD9N7.1222$29.1381183@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  
 Greetings,  E Ken and I have extended the current survey for a couple more weeks totJ attract more votes. If you have the inclination and a couple of minutes to( spare, please participate in the survey.  C Based on the suggestions we've received, we'll compile a new surveysJ reflecting some of the proposed questions that have come forth from Usenet	 denizens.   @ Thanks for your participation thus far, it is truly appreciated!   cheers,    terry sn   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:47:59 -0800! From: msalapic@yahoo.com (mislav) " Subject: TRIBON (for shipbuilding)= Message-ID: <be17736d.0111281047.59a70d73@posting.google.com>a  F i need manual of program TRIBON.if someone can help me about that send me mail:mislav_385@yahoo.com mislav   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:52:48 +0000l+ From: John McNulty <knode1@jmtl.com-nospam> J Subject: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))/ Message-ID: <u09rjsk16gpo96@corp.supernews.com>t   John McLean wrote:  K > Q3: Obviously you can't go to market with two versions of UNIX--HP-UX ando$ > Compaq Tru64 UNIX. Which one wins? > L > A: HP has a great general-purpose data center UNIX with broad ISV coverage  > and increasing share momentum. > C > Compaq has great UNIX clustering, RAS (reliability, availability,s/ > scalability) and performance characteristics,     K This puzzles me.  Ok, I accept the fact that HP have a greater Unix market aM share, but why, when HP-UX  doesn't have Tru64's reliability and scalability ,L features.   Is it technically better in some aspect that pleases the market @ more?   Or is it purely down to corporate culture and marketing?  # I know next to nothing about HP-UX..   John   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 08:33:47 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sN Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))3 Message-ID: <8Si2txoX6h77@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ] In article <u09rjsk16gpo96@corp.supernews.com>, John McNulty <knode1@jmtl.com-nospam> writes:e  M > This puzzles me.  Ok, I accept the fact that HP have a greater Unix market VO > share, but why, when HP-UX  doesn't have Tru64's reliability and scalability oN > features.   Is it technically better in some aspect that pleases the market B > more?   Or is it purely down to corporate culture and marketing?  D    HP can market.  Often they first entered via folks who rellied on    their instrumentation.t  % > I know next to nothing about HP-UX.p      Lucky you.  PH-UX, OK?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:34:49 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>lN Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)), Message-ID: <3C051224.4A2BB9CC@videotron.ca>   John McNulty wrote: L > This puzzles me.  Ok, I accept the fact that HP have a greater Unix marketN > share, but why, when HP-UX  doesn't have Tru64's reliability and scalabilityM > features.   Is it technically better in some aspect that pleases the markethB > more?   Or is it purely down to corporate culture and marketing?  @ Both HP-UX and Tru64 have to do migration to that now intel toy.  M HP-UX has many more customers than Tru64. So while they may embed many of thefD "system" functiosn available in Tru64 into HP-UX, my bet is that theI application and user interface will remain HP-UX so that HP-UX can reallyrM simply recompile. It will be the Tru64 folks who will have to port their appst= to HP-UX (but in many cases, those apps already exist there).m  M Why is someonone on Tru64 ? Well, some percentage are on Tru64 because it hastN clustering that is better than other unixes.  Move that bit to HP-UX and HP-UXN has clustering that is better than other unixes. So where will those customers move ? to HP-UX.  L I think that SUN should buy Compaq. cannabalise the PC business alltogether,L and then merge Tru64 with Solaris and also push VMS. Sun would then have theI momentum to battle Microsoft. Heck, it could do a reverse Compaq: get thet= Compaq wintel customers to migrate off NT and to VMS or Unix.e   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2001 16:45:35 GMT From: jfc@mit.edu (John F Carr)sN Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))@ Message-ID: <3c0514af$0$3935$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>  < In article <3C051224.4A2BB9CC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote:  N >Why is someonone on Tru64 ? Well, some percentage are on Tru64 because it hasO >clustering that is better than other unixes.  Move that bit to HP-UX and HP-UX O >has clustering that is better than other unixes. So where will those customerse >move ? to HP-UX.h  < Moving clustering to HP-UX may take years of work by a large> team of senior software engineers.  That's what it took to get> clustering working on Tru64.  (That's _after_ there was a code? base to start from, although I'm not sure starting with nothingp would have been slower.)   -- e     John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)n   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:49:29 +0000 (UTC)n From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.ukN Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))+ Message-ID: <9u34ip$oo7$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>o  \ In article <3C051224.4A2BB9CC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >John McNulty wrote:   >sN >Why is someonone on Tru64 ? Well, some percentage are on Tru64 because it hasO >clustering that is better than other unixes.  Move that bit to HP-UX and HP-UX O >has clustering that is better than other unixes. So where will those customersA >move ? to HP-UX.h >   L I don't have any direct experience with HP-UX however the number of reported7 security bugs appears to be much higher than for Tru64.t- They are often posted to comp.security.misc .i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex university   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:20:23 GMTs. From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>N Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))? Message-ID: <r19N7.54018$RG1.29054927@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>a   "JF Mezei" wroteB > Both HP-UX and Tru64 have to do migration to that now intel toy. > H > HP-UX has many more customers than Tru64. So while they may embed manyM > of the "system" functions available in Tru64 into HP-UX, my bet is that thesK > application and user interface will remain HP-UX so that HP-UX can reallyyO > simply recompile. It will be the Tru64 folks who will have to port their appssG > to HP-UX (but in many cases, those apps already exist there).     ...e   The starting question is,mC Will the merged Unix be big-endian, like PA-RISC and IPF HP-UX are,s or little-endian, like Tru64? H The IPF hardware can do both, even at same time for different processes,C but no practical OS will ever be bi-endian in its raw file support.   G One camp of users or the other will be losers, in having to fix endian- F sensitive nonportable source code before doing the "just a recompile",E even if both sets of APIs are supported, and in not having the optioniG for a binary translator for unchanged PA-RISC or Alpha binary programs.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:46:54 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>N Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)); Message-ID: <yN6N7.1163$29.1314057@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>h  8 "John McNulty" <knode1@jmtl.com-nospam> wrote in message) news:u09rjsk16gpo96@corp.supernews.com...  > John McLean wrote: >eI > > Q3: Obviously you can't go to market with two versions of UNIX--HP-UX  andw& > > Compaq Tru64 UNIX. Which one wins? > >lE > > A: HP has a great general-purpose data center UNIX with broad ISVn coverage" > > and increasing share momentum. > >hE > > Compaq has great UNIX clustering, RAS (reliability, availability,r1 > > scalability) and performance characteristics,o >h >iL > This puzzles me.  Ok, I accept the fact that HP have a greater Unix marketB > share, but why, when HP-UX  doesn't have Tru64's reliability and scalability F > features.   Is it technically better in some aspect that pleases the marketB > more?   Or is it purely down to corporate culture and marketing? >i  H As per my writings---those which have caused much abuse and angst in theH newsgroups--I believe that T64 is a technically superior solution. WhileJ it's easy for me or any analyst to pontificate and to spend other people'sK money, I think the best solution is to rename T64 HP-UX and to leverage theoL Intel porting dollars to persuade the HP-UX ISVs to port their apps to HP-UXJ Post-Millennium Edition. The result would be a Unix with a modern, modular kernel.a  K The HP way will more likely involve grafting the goodness of Tru64 onto thebH long-in-tooth HP-UX kernel. This will give Sun, IBM, et al a competitive- knockoff: nice clustering, antiquated kernel.n  
 Just my $0.02r   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 05:38:28 -0800 From: vmae@themail.com (Van)! Subject: Re: Undo disk Initializeo< Message-ID: <a954c96.0111280538.58ce153b@posting.google.com>  u system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote in message news:<00A0456F.C7A4E7D9@SendSpamHere.ORG>...aV > In article <3BDFF7FB.A6739EE7@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > >Piyush Avichal wrote:  Q > >> Does anyone know of any software or know how to undo the initialization of ahT > >> disk. One of our users has accidently initilized an optical disk. It hasnt been8 > >> written to so the data should still be on the disk. >  > $ BACKUP  ;) >  > B > >Why are you giving users enough privileges to initialise disks? > + > PeeCee or unix admin background no doubt.h > I > >There's no UNFORMAT command available. My first stab at recovering the G > >data would be to create a partition identical in size to the optical I > >disk, do a BACKUp/physical, then try a number of the freeware UNDELETEnJ > >programs. Providing they don't depend on the INDEXF.SYS and can pick up, > >the file headers, you may have some luck. > H > Nearly all of the VMS undelete utilities rely upon the INDEXF.SYS fileJ > being intact.   During a "DELETE", the bitmaps are modified but the file. > header data remains more or less unchanged.  > I > Having no INDEXF.SYS to tie things together, it would be a *monumental*nJ > task to scavenge the disk block by block to associate the data that each4 > contains with some previously defined association.  C Hi! You try to use the program R-STUDIO for restoring files on youroD disk. It can create image files for an entire disk or its part. SuchE image files can be processed like regular disks. It restores files onrA damaged or deleted partitions and compressed files (NTFS, NTFS5).nA For more information about R-STUDIO look site http://www.r-tt.come
 Good luck!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:14:18 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>! Subject: Re: Undo disk Initializey) Message-ID: <3C04F13A.71B03E72@127.0.0.1>w  
 Van wrote: > E > Hi! You try to use the program R-STUDIO for restoring files on yourdF > disk. It can create image files for an entire disk or its part. SuchG > image files can be processed like regular disks. It restores files onnC > damaged or deleted partitions and compressed files (NTFS, NTFS5).aC > For more information about R-STUDIO look site http://www.r-tt.com  > Good luck!  B We're talking real disks with data integrity, usually protected by privilege, not toy systems. :-vt   -- l( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:52:02 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Undo disk Initialize 3 Message-ID: <SC8N7.2052$RL6.62714@news.cpqcorp.net>m  [ In article <a954c96.0111280538.58ce153b@posting.google.com>, vmae@themail.com (Van) writes:ev :system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote in message news:<00A0456F.C7A4E7D9@SendSpamHere.ORG>...W :> In article <3BDFF7FB.A6739EE7@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  :> >Piyush Avichal wrote: R :> >> Does anyone know of any software or know how to undo the initialization of aU :> >> disk. One of our users has accidently initilized an optical disk. It hasnt beeno9 :> >> written to so the data should still be on the disk.o :> m :> $ BACKUP  ;)g :> e :>  C :> >Why are you giving users enough privileges to initialise disks?  :> s, :> PeeCee or unix admin background no doubt. :> eJ :> >There's no UNFORMAT command available. My first stab at recovering theH :> >data would be to create a partition identical in size to the opticalJ :> >disk, do a BACKUp/physical, then try a number of the freeware UNDELETEK :> >programs. Providing they don't depend on the INDEXF.SYS and can pick upl- :> >the file headers, you may have some luck.  :>  I :> Nearly all of the VMS undelete utilities rely upon the INDEXF.SYS file K :> being intact.   During a "DELETE", the bitmaps are modified but the fileE/ :> header data remains more or less unchanged. p :> gJ :> Having no INDEXF.SYS to tie things together, it would be a *monumental*K :> task to scavenge the disk block by block to associate the data that eachu5 :> contains with some previously defined association.s :uD :Hi! You try to use the program R-STUDIO for restoring files on your@ :disk. It can create image files for an entire disk or its part.    G   I've sent off-line mail to the poster of the above, as this R-STUDIO h:   package is irrelevent and inappropriate in this context.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2001 07:02:57 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)M Subject: UNIX declared unsecure w/latest cert bug ... VMS only unhackable OS!t= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111280702.60006ac9@posting.google.com>d  C looks like this latest nasty unix cert bug may require a rewrite asn far as6 the CDE is concerned ... VMS still unhackable ... read  : http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2001/1119unix.html?docid=6945   Unix bugged?  ! By Ellen Messmer and April JacobsA Network World, 11/19/01   E Internet Security Systems last week sounded the alarm about a seriousPC security weakness it says is associated with Unix software from sixrD vendors: Sun, Compaq, Hewlett-Packard, Caldera, SGI and IBM. But theA vendors and ISS are in sharp disagreement about the nature of thei problem and how to fix it.  C The problem, which was also highlighted in a security advisory fromiC CERT, is that hackers can use a buffer-overflow attack to gain roothE control of the Unix servers. The fear is that attackers could exploitm? the server in a manner not unlike the way hackers exploited thetD Microsoft Web server to create the computer worms Code Red and Nimda that wreaked havoc recently.  B But Unix vendors disagree with some of security software firm ISS'B findings. HP and ISS disagree on the versions of HP-UX that need a@ patch, while Sun says there isn't a problem at all. But Caldera,F Compaq, HP and IBM say they had a patch for the problem. The resultingA morass of opinion is making it nearly impossible for Unix systemsy0 administrators to get a handle on the situation.  F "If vendors know there is a problem, they should be issuing patches asE quickly as possible, because if companies find out they knew about itTB and didn't do anything, there will be a lot of upset people," says2 Dave Anderson, senior systems engineer at Verizon.  C "We're definitely interested in knowing about software flaws," sayse@ Neil Singer, IT administrator at Sandia National Labs. "We wouldF prefer to hear about the problem before there are patches if need be."  A For its part, ISS urged network managers to follow vendor advice,nE pointing out that turning off the Common Desktop Environment (CDE) or 3 a specific component could break Unix applications.e  D Caldera is downplaying the flaw, saying Unix vulnerabilities crop upA from time to time, and the goal is just to fix them as quickly ast= possible. "This is something we try to expedite as quickly ase) possible," says Caldera CTO Drew Spencer.r  E But contradictions abound. ISS says HP's latest versions of HP-UX, 11s@ and 11i, are vulnerable and should be patched. But HP vehemently
 disagrees.  8 "HP's 11 and 11i versions of HP-UX already have built-inC buffer-overflow protection as well as intrusion detection, so these-C users don't have to worry about this problem," says Ram Appalaraju,iA director of marketing for HP-UX. Earlier legacy versions that ISSm< cited need a patch, and HP has one, Appalaraju acknowledges.  E Dan Ingevaldson, ISS team leader for the division called X-Force that-B uncovers new security vulnerabilities, says ISS is sticking to its@ contention that HP-UX 11 and 11i either need a security patch orE should have the CDE disabled. "It's an oversight on HP's part, and HP@: is dead wrong on this," Ingevaldson says. The dispute over2 vulnerabilities can "turn a little ugly," he adds.  F However, ISS says its main testing of CDE vulnerability was on the Sun Solaris platform.a  @ "We don't have the resources to do all of these Unix platforms," Ingevaldson says.s  ? However, the buffer-overflow protection in HP-UX 11 - which ISSlF asserts it has defeated in the past anyway - does not protect the CDE, he says.  C Sun is reluctant to acknowledge the Unix CDE flaw affected Solaris.sF Sun says it is still investigating the security problem, adding it mayC never have a patch for Solaris. Sun recommends following the advicetB from ISS and CERT to turn off the at-risk CDE component called the% subprocess control server, or dtspcd.-  B "Can we confirm it affects our systems? The answer now is no," Sun" spokesman Russell Castronova says.  ? However, he notes that "root access to Unix is a big deal," andhD Solaris users might want to take heed of the workaround CERT and ISSB recommended to disable the CDE. At the same time, ISS told network+ managers to look to the vendors for advice.m   Risky businessE A recently discovered buffer-overflow vulnerability could let hackers-F take control of the following Unix systems unless their common desktop? environment component is disabled or a software patch is added.   e   At risk:   &#8226; IBM AIX 4.3, 5.1  * &#8226; Caldera OpenUnix 8.0, UnixWare 7  F &#8226; Hewlett-Packard HP-UX 10.10, 10.20, 10.24, 11.00, 11.04, 11.11 &#8226; Sun Solaris 7, 8  > &#8226; Compaq Tru64 Digital Unix 4.0F, 40G, 5.0a, 5.1, 5.1a   &#8226; Unspecified SGI Unix     Not at risk:  0 &#8226; Cray UNICOS, UNICOS/mk and Crayu Tools  ( &#8226; Fujitsu UXP/V operating system     SOURCE: ISS AND CERT    (   E There are many versions of Solaris, and creating patches for them allyA is a challenge, especially because of the need to test patches togE ensure they don't affect applications, Castronova says. Sun soon willr> substitute software called Gnome for CDE, he adds, though thisA wouldn't help anyone with the CDE security issue that Sun was notl quite ready to address.r  C Meanwhile, Joel Berman, Compaq's director of competitive marketing,oF says his company has never been able to reproduce the supposed flaw in	 its labs.a  C ISS has known about the CDE security vulnerability for a month, butoD wanted to hold off disclosing the problem until mid-December to give? vendors time to make patches, Ingevaldson says. IBM says it wasCA notified of the problem on Oct. 30, instituting a fix soon after.-  B But when Caldera spoke about the problem publicly on the NTbugtrak. mailing list last week, ISS sounded its alarm.  F One reason ISS feels this flaw is serious is because the CDE componentE is usually turned on by default. That's unless the net manager does av2 custom installation of Unix and turns the CDE off.  F Ingevaldson says a different CDE vulnerability related to its ToolTalkC component discovered a few years ago became one of the most popular,& hacker exploits between 1999 and 2000.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:06:38 +0100 1 From: Enrico Badella <enrico.badella@softstar.it>kQ Subject: Re: UNIX declared unsecure w/latest cert bug ... VMS only unhackable OS! + Message-ID: <3C0527AE.6BD90906@softstar.it>    Bob Ceculski wrote:U > E > looks like this latest nasty unix cert bug may require a rewrite asa > far as8 > the CDE is concerned ... VMS still unhackable ... read  G I use Solaris & AIX daily, VMS only as a hobbyist, but can't understandtE why people use something like CDE instead of fvwm or similar... maybetL just for the windoze feeling..... however there are still admins that insistL in having CDE on DMZ machines.. just a lost war, I no longer try to convince them it is bad   e.  H ========================================================================H Enrico Badella                       email:   enrico.badella@softstar.itA Soft*Star srl                                 eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it H InterNetworking Specialists          tel:     +39-011-746092            < Via Camburzano 9                     fax:     +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italya  K   Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, 4   manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manualsJ ==========================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:09:06 GMTi& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: xdmcp? Message-ID: <C_7N7.153670$zK1.42148406@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>t  7 I have not been able to find this on DSN or in the FAQ.   L Is XDMCP  (X Display Manager Control Protocol) supported on current versions? of VMS?  All I found on VMS was an article from 1993 saying NO.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:40:05 +0000 (UTC)- From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: xdmcp+ Message-ID: <9u3415$oc9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>)  h In article <C_7N7.153670$zK1.42148406@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:8 >I have not been able to find this on DSN or in the FAQ. >tM >Is XDMCP  (X Display Manager Control Protocol) supported on current versions.@ >of VMS?  All I found on VMS was an article from 1993 saying NO. >1 >n  D I think it has been supported on Multinet and tcpware for some time.< Compaq's TCPIP services (AKA UCX) has finally caught up and ( supports it with DEC TCPIP SERVICES 5.1.   UCX SH SERVICE XDM  L Service             Port  Proto    Process          Address            State  O XDM                  177  UDP      TCPIP$XDM        0.0.0.0             Enabled     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:01:39 -0800 * From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: XML Test Problems & Java Performance Query.) Message-ID: <3C050A63.C40F44C6@yahoo.com>l   Rob Buxton wrote:x  	 > Hi All,  >r > Java SDK 1.3.0-2 > OpenVMS 7.2-1e > UnZip 5.42 >a >N >a2 > XMLDOCUMENTSCANNER$TRAILINGMISCDISPATCHER.CLASS; >g > Is there any way round this?  H I do my (limited) java playing on an ods-5 volume.  You pretty much need to anyway becauseSC of the mixed case thing.  For some stupid reason the java inventorsM decided a class MyClass needsr8 to be in a file MyClass.java.  What an extrodinary pain.   Jims   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.662 ************************