1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 30 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 666       Contents:P Accuracy of future projections from DEC/CPQ, was: Re: Yahoo - IBM unseated in neP Re: Accuracy of future projections from DEC/CPQ, was: Re: Yahoo - IBM unseated i Re: alpha - ia64P Re: Bin Laden was Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64." Re: DCPS stopped, inactive problem! Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day ! Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day < RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group NeM RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) M Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) L RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands(NLCUG), Re: DSSI VAXcluster manual on line anywhere?- Excellent press release from Northrop Grumman 1 Re: Excellent press release from Northrop Grumman  Re: ftp performance  Re: ftp performance  Re: ftp performance  Re: ftp performance  Re: ftp performance  RE: ftp performance  Re: ftp performance  Re: ftp performance  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ?  Re: Future of VMS ? 4 Re: Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLT4 Re: Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLT HELP TYPE/HEADER5 Re: How to use Kermit within a VMS command procedure? , Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?, Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?, Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?7 IP over Decnet Q, was Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day ; Re: IP over Decnet Q, was Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day * Re: Just a reminder for tomorrow's webcast Layered Product Strangeness  Re: LNC02 cont.  Re: LNC02 cont. ! Re: logical names novice question K Re: looking for HSC50, RA81, star coupler, CIPCA, various manuals &  prints K Re: looking for HSC50, RA81, star coupler, CIPCA, various manuals &  prints P Re: looking for HSC50, RA81, star coupler, CIPCA, various manuals & prints print6 Re: New product allows VMS to become part of a PC Lan!6 Re: New product allows VMS to become part of a PC Lan! Re: new to VMS cxx question... Re: new to VMS cxx question...% Re: NT to Solaris Migration Promotion % Re: NT to Solaris Migration Promotion ( Re: Oracle 8i OCI problem with VAX BASICP PDP and envionment (Was : Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLT) DLT)( Re: Q: How to check if a file is opened? RAM for VAXstation 3100 " Re: RECALL does not work (& XDMCP)4 Re: Time for the Encompass US Inc CHAD-FREE Election	 RE: TLZ09 E Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)) ? Utility to deal with UCX Mail Server Stopping on Junk Email bug * Re: V7.2-2 in Canada? Release date in USA?P whats up?                                                                       4 Re: why not a communityDeveloped[tm] version of VMS?	 Re: xdmcp  Re: XPDF 0.93 - VMS versions  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:09:40 GMT G From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> Y Subject: Accuracy of future projections from DEC/CPQ, was: Re: Yahoo - IBM unseated in ne 6 Message-ID: <oyLN7.43642$xS6.73538@www.newsranger.com>  , On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:23:39 GMT, in articleH <LxrN7.496$zX1.1438268@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Terry C. Shannon wrote: >  > 6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message8 >news:d7791aa1.0111290602.4925344f@posting.google.com...4 >> "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org> wrote in message< >news:<qUeN7.92719$fm5.17025390@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>...G >> > "...At the top of the new list, created by IDC in cooperation with M >> > supercomputer users, is a 3,024-processor Compaq Computer machine called A >> > Terascale based at the Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center...."  >> > >> >M >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011128/tc/ibm_unseated_in_new_supercompute  >> > r_ranking_1.html  >>M >> I thought Alpha couldn't keep up to Itanium?  By the way, where is Itanium  >on  >> the list? > J >Itanium is nowhere on the list, it'll probably be several years before itM >makes a showing. Nobody ever said Alpha couldn't keep up with Itanium; CPQ's M >projections were that Alpha would lose its performance edge at or beyond the & >EV8 timeframe. Your mileage may vary. >   L Having seen all the IA64/Alpha future projection discussions here, one thing that I haven't seen mentioned:  I Is there any reason to believe that these performance projections are any I more accurate than the projections made in 1997(?) that the VMS installed ' base would fall to 250,000(?) by 2000 ?   E That latter projection always struck me as an attempt to hurry up the C collapse of the VMS market, in favour of more fashionable products.    Simon.  K PS: Who actually made that VMS projection ? Was it Palmer or someone else ?    --  @ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered a E truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:36:53 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: Accuracy of future projections from DEC/CPQ, was: Re: Yahoo - IBM unseated i < Message-ID: <pINN7.1044$zX1.1955743@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  L "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote in8 message news:oyLN7.43642$xS6.73538@www.newsranger.com.... > On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:23:39 GMT, in article > H > Having seen all the IA64/Alpha future projection discussions here, one thing   > that I haven't seen mentioned: > K > Is there any reason to believe that these performance projections are any K > more accurate than the projections made in 1997(?) that the VMS installed ) > base would fall to 250,000(?) by 2000 ?  > G > That latter projection always struck me as an attempt to hurry up the E > collapse of the VMS market, in favour of more fashionable products.   L Good point, Simon! The projected VMS decline was based on forecasts from oneH of the big US market research firms (and having worked for one of them aI decade ago, I can assure you that the numbers are like sausage: you don't G want to see what goes into them or how they are made) and were promoted < quite heavily by DEC during the "NT is Alpha's Saviour" era.  F Jesse Lipcon used the infamous Installed Base Decline slide during his3 plenary presentation at DECUS Europe in Copenhagen.   L The numbers proved to be false as the response of VMS customers to the Risky+ Affinity Scheme was "hell no, we won't go!"   F The current installed base is significantly lower than the 450K numberF Compaq marketeers continue to use, but it's definitely higher than the circa-1997 projection.  J CPU performance projections are likely to be somewhat more reliable, sinceJ they are predicated in part on laws of physics. The Alpha architecture hasK pretty much performed as advertised, albeit not in the originally scheduled H timeframe (EV6 slips, etc). Too soon to tell what will happen with IA64.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 01:59:10 -0500P From: "Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>" <monnier+comp.arch/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 , Message-ID: <5lk7w8922p.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>  2 >>>>> "eddie" == eddie  <NullVoid@att.net> writes:> > are basically stealing resources from others for themselves.  K I don't think any one of them intends to get their food and shelter without 9 working for it, so I'm not sure what you mean by "steal".      	Stefan   H PS: and by the way, there *is* plenty of food for everyone in the world.@ PPS: the 360 billions of dollars of the US military budget wouldC      cover a large bit of "the resources to help all of the world's       unfortunates".    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:17:10 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> Y Subject: Re: Bin Laden was Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64. + Message-ID: <3C07B106.83D0DC9B@hsc.vcu.edu>   C Thats ok, Shane I didn't hear it in the first place... (i'm hard of  hearing, you others...)    Jim  ;-D       Shane Smith wrote: >  > > Shane Smith wrote: > > > [snip]L > > > > Ok, try to convince me that the founder and head of an internationalH > >> terrorist group even deserves the courtesy of a trial.  Show me the@ > >> trial that condemned all the victums on September 11, 2001. > >>3 > >To stop Bin Laden becoming a martyr he has to be 8 > >discredited.  Over thousands of years one of the most7 > >effective methods of doing this is a fair and public 9 > >trial.  The judge listens to the evidence and what the  > .defendant says and decides. > ..etc / > > Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UK ! > > andrew.swallow@baesystems.com  > H > I just wanted to point out this attribution's misleading. I didn't say1 > that, I think it's from what I was replying to.  >  > Shane    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:04:19 +0100 < From: Eckhard Wich <Eckhard.Wich@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>+ Subject: Re: DCPS stopped, inactive problem : Message-ID: <3C0767B3.62B14F15@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  & --Boundary_(ID_vGlwF29F+cGitd63XwPS5w) Content-type: text/plain      & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:  G > Since our contractors have forced boots on DCPS printers, I have been J > having problems on my machines.  The contractors have absolutely no idea  N So the last change was a boot of your printers and after this all printer were6 down, right?  Without more details, my first guess is:  &    * - Did the printers *really* boot?F      -> $ REPLAY /ENA and check OPCOM messages on your boot nodes when$      rebooting a printer once again.J    * - What sort of printers are you using, which protocol? TCPIP, DECnet?N    * - Are the printers reachable ( $ TCPIP PING, $ MC LPS$CONSOLE for old DEC      LPSxxx)   Regards,   Eckhard Wich      & --Boundary_(ID_vGlwF29F+cGitd63XwPS5w) Content-type: text/html   > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp;) <p>paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: O <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Since our contractors have forced boots on DCPS printers,  I have been I <br>having problems on my machines.&nbsp; The contractors have absolutely  no idea</blockquote>I So the last change was a boot of your printers and after this all printer @ were down, right?&nbsp; Without more details, my first guess is: <ul> <li>+ - Did the printers *really* boot?&nbsp;<br> K -> $ REPLAY /ENA and check OPCOM messages on your boot nodes when rebooting  a printer once again.</li>   <li>J - What sort of printers are you using, which protocol? TCPIP, DECnet?</li>   <li>I - Are the printers reachable ( $ TCPIP PING, $ MC LPS$CONSOLE for old DEC  LPSxxx)</li> </ul>  Regards, <p>Eckhard Wich 
 <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;</html>   ( --Boundary_(ID_vGlwF29F+cGitd63XwPS5w)--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:49:51 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>* Subject: Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day' Message-ID: <3C07482F.8078EF29@home.nl>    Bob Ceculski wrote:   g > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<sblc0u0a68km04olakm5j0vcfqioabpp8f@4ax.com>... J > > On Tuesday evening an extremely well known organization who manage ourG > > corporate WAN installed new routing equipment locally. On Wednesday F > > morning the kit failed taking down all site external IP networking= > > plus ISDN backup systems -  a should not happen scenario.  > > G > > During various planning sessions I have argued for the retention of I > > DECNET Phase IV to certain key sites worldwide as opposed to shutting 1 > > down or transition to DECNET Phase V over IP.  > > G > > You guessed it DECNET connectivity remained up between Scotland and I > > France (which still had IP connectivity) allowing us to rapidly setup H > > captive TCPIP/DECNET relay logons on a VMS box in France to SET HOSTG > > into our European MANMAN systems in Scotland. Additionally VMS mail C > > over DECNET (once the corporate standard email) again became of  > > critical importance. > > , > > Glad I didn't cave in and drop Phase IV. > > J > > Yes I know there are serious issues we have to resolve with this "well" > > known organization" as well... > ; > decnet phase V over IP is a nightmare to setup and manage   
 Huh ??????M Just setup Decnet-plus for Local (standard install) and incl. TCPIP transport - Setup TCPIP as you would for normal TCPIP use  Include the PWIP driver.   Ready, very difficult .......        > ... TcpwaresN > decnet phase IV over IP and it is bullet proof and alot easier to manage ...J > it's like having a class B network over the internet ... also unlike theN > pwip drivers decnet OSI and multinet use, tcpware phase IV over IP is "true"F > decnet phase IV ... and decnet copies are bulletproof unlike ftp ...   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 10:47:30 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111301047.fa81376@posting.google.com>  M Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3C07482F.8078EF29@home.nl>...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >    > > = > > decnet phase V over IP is a nightmare to setup and manage  >  > Huh ??????O > Just setup Decnet-plus for Local (standard install) and incl. TCPIP transport / > Setup TCPIP as you would for normal TCPIP use  > Include the PWIP driver. >  > Ready, very difficult .......  >  > > ... TcpwaresP > > decnet phase IV over IP and it is bullet proof and alot easier to manage ...L > > it's like having a class B network over the internet ... also unlike theP > > pwip drivers decnet OSI and multinet use, tcpware phase IV over IP is "true"H > > decnet phase IV ... and decnet copies are bulletproof unlike ftp ...  F simple! why is everyone still on Phase IV?  Because they don't want to have to D type 5 commands in phase V to do what one command can do in phase IV ... @ and I guarantee you, setting up a "TRUE" decnet phase IV over IP
 connection in @ Tcpware is alot simpler than OSI, anyday, any year, takes me "4"E minutes, and that includes the firewall on top of it, both the decnet  security and the IP E firewall ... and becuase it runs as true decnet, it is crisper than a  PWIPD driver doing pseudo decnet ... we proved it in testing!  and because it runs E on tcpware which is vms kernel based, it runs even better compared to  either ucx or multinet!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:23:56 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Ne - Message-ID: <0033000043254968000002L082*@MHS>   D =0AI'd be listening but I'm trying to figure out what's on this tape= from 1994 from a system that no longer exists that had a disk ! configuration that I never saw...   F And there's the tape drive in another city whose error count increased2 from 17 to 51 overnight, but that's another story.  
 Seriously.   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 5:35 AM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Ne     F I'm self are working fulltime as a disaster recovery specialist on the OpenVMS level.H And I was too busy with testing of the recoverability of a customer to = go.   F And the reason I couldn't go was prove enough that there a very active
 interessed in & VMS-based disaster-tolerant solutions.  H If disaster-tolerant solutions were the prime objective then choose Ope= nVMS is the easy way out.  H The recovery ability of VMS is the better then any UNIX version, NT ver= sion,  Novell or OS/400 version.   H I have seen the recovery of a small MPE system and that was easier then=  VMS. % But MPE is not on the market anymore.   H I only have to say  "VMS-cluster" as prove that VMS is the of the best = on failsafe systems.2H And every where those are standing you can count, that site as interess= ed ins disaster-tolerant solution.   H So yes, there is a lot of installed base of disaster tolerance solution= s in the Dutch OpenVMS world.2 And only 86 persons of the world has time to come.     Jeroen van Dijk6 Uitwijkspecialistd Business Continuitye Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nla  " Getronics Infrastructure Solutions Botter 15-90 Postbus 2228 8203 AE  Lelystadq Tel  : +31 (0)320 266314 Fax:  +31 (0)320 266219d      @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0111271200.6811b142@posting.google.com...aB > > "Gerrit Woertman" <gerrit.woertman@hccnet.nl> wrote in message' > news:<9snu48$42p$1@news.hccnet.nl>...h= > > > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combinationl > of DECUS and	 > BENTUG)hH > > > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day about=  
 > Disaster > > > Tolerance. > >eB > > How did this go?  Did many attend?  Is there still much active6 > > interest in VMS-based disaster-tolerant solutions?H > > -------------------------------------------------------------------=  H > > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:=  H > > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O=   >  > Hello Keith! >o; > You are a little bit early with your question! However, It > appreciate yourw > interest!l >iH > I can tell you that we have 86 preregistered attendants, and we expec= tR > several more!K >i; > I will make sure that we (the NLCUG board) will publish an > short report after > Thursday.I > 
 > Regards, >C > Bart Zorn  >t >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:31:00 +0100 7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>eV Subject: RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG)O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6AFA@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   F I'm self are working fulltime as a disaster recovery specialist on the OpenVMS level.J And I was too busy with testing of the recoverability of a customer to go.  F And the reason I couldn't go was prove enough that there a very active interessed in ' VMS-based disaster-tolerant solutions.    K If disaster-tolerant solutions were the prime objective then choose OpenVMS  is the easy way out.  L The recovery ability of VMS is the better then any UNIX version, NT version, Novell or OS/400 version.   L I have seen the recovery of a small MPE system and that was easier then VMS.% But MPE is not on the market anymore.   I I only have to say  "VMS-cluster" as prove that VMS is the of the best onk failsafe systems.eL And every where those are standing you can count, that site as interessed in disaster-tolerant solution.l  K So yes, there is a lot of installed base of disaster tolerance solutions ini the Dutch OpenVMS world.2 And only 86 persons of the world has time to come. 			    Jeroen van Dijk  Uitwijkspecialist  Business Continuity  Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nli  " Getronics Infrastructure Solutions Botter 15-90 Postbus 2228 8203 AE  Lelystad  Tel  : +31 (0)320 266314 Fax:  +31 (0)320 266219r      @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0111271200.6811b142@posting.google.com... B > > "Gerrit Woertman" <gerrit.woertman@hccnet.nl> wrote in message' > news:<9snu48$42p$1@news.hccnet.nl>...n> > > > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combination  > of DECUS and	 > BENTUG).G > > > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day abouta
 > Disaster > > > Tolerance. > >:B > > How did this go?  Did many attend?  Is there still much active6 > > interest in VMS-based disaster-tolerant solutions?G > > -------------------------------------------------------------------wG > > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:aG > > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O  >  > Hello Keith! > < > You are a little bit early with your question! However, I  > appreciate youru > interest!w > H > I can tell you that we have 86 preregistered attendants, and we expect > several more!  > < > I will make sure that we (the NLCUG board) will publish a  > short report after > Thursday.e > 
 > Regards, >  > Bart Zorna >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:28:24 +0100s, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>V Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG)* Message-ID: <9u7u2q$gie$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  H Here is the brief summary of the Disaster Tolerance day organized by the NLCUG.  J As I said before, the slides will be available on www.nlcug.nl, but it mayF take some time because our ISP seems to have forgotten what service to. customers means, let alone Disaster Tolerance!  F There were about 100 people attending. We started off with two plenary	 sessions:o  H - Paulo Buijs, Xion Consulting, gave a good overview about what Disaster4 Tolerance is. Nothing really new for OpenVMS people!  I - Thomas Stamm, ING Bank IT Center, gave an overview what ING is doing ini  the field of Disaster Tolerance.  K After that, we continued with several paralell sessions. Since we are now atF joined Compaq User Group, there were both NonStop Himalaya and OpenVMSD related sessions. Other topics were storage, networking and even NT.   I attended the following:r  K - S.Vossepoel, R. van Riet, Sionet Solutions. Extractor/Replicator. This is4L a tool for Hot-Site Backup in Himalaya environments. Because I am an OpenVMSH bigot, the most noticeable difference with OpenVMS is the fact that thisH solution is based on a hot-standby technique and not on what we considerI normal, concurrent access. Hower, given the fact that solutions like thiseJ are being used in High Availability environments, I have no doubts that it meets such requirements.  I - Johan Michiels, Compaq Belgium. Cockpit Manager for OpenVMS. This is antG OpenVMS management services offering from Compaq in Belgium. It is sold G mostly in the Benelux. It was originally developed on top of Polycenter L Consolemanager. The current version supports both Consolemanagement productsI from CA, and Consolworks from Tecsys. In addition, Cockpit Manager can betG used without a console management product, but that is not recommended.aK Cockpit Manager can be used to monitor the entire OpenVMS Disaster ToleranttH configuration, including (but not limited to) systems, processes, disks,L shadowsets, Fibre Channel switches, HS* storage controllers, anything with aF serial console or which can be queried with SNMP or which can sen SNMPJ traps. An important feature of Cockpit Manager is the fact that it runs on OpenVMS!  E - Gerrit Woertman, Compaq the Netherlands. Gerrit gave an overview of I OpenVMS and Disaster Tolerance. Those who know Gerrit know that it was ano entertaining session!e  J - Jan Kippers, KPN Datacenter. NT in a business critical environment? KindL of hard to believe, but they do it! The techique they use resembles a littleJ bit what is used by SETIathome. You give a task to a (relatively) small NTL server and when it completes the task, it returns the results. When it dies,K that will be detected and the task is given to an other NT box. They use 40-K NT systems (the 1U rackmout Proliants). Since it is higly unlikely that alleK 40 NT boxes die at the same time, you have a high availability environment.pK However, it all depends on how you define High Availability! Anyway, it wase) a well presented and interesting session.i  G I will put a notice here when the slides are available on www.nlcug.nl.n  @ In conclusion, it was a well attended, lively and succesful day!   Regards,  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:36:14 +0100t7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>nU Subject: RE: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands(NLCUG)tO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6AFB@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>-  ? > > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combination of h > DECUS and BENTUG):@ > > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day  > about Disaster > > Tolerance.< > > If you are interested, the program (mostly in the Dutch  > language) can be# > > found at:  http://www.nlcug.nl/r > > @ > > When planning this event half a year ago, we didn't realize  > that this topic  > > would be that actual.t > * > You probably mean "current" ("aktuell"). > > > Yes, I suppose that any operating system which has survived  > two company H > buy-outs as well as the death of the architecture it was designed for / > (and vice versa) is pretty disaster-tolerant!d >   K Even if at this moment Compaq, HP or IBM stops the support on OpenVMS afteri
 a buy-out & it will go on to be disaster-tolerant.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:17:21 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: DSSI VAXcluster manual on line anywhere?n) Message-ID: <3C0794F1.CB2AB7E3@127.0.0.1>i   Robert DiRosario wrote:  > E > Only one end of the DSSI cable comes out of the case, so the system-) > needs to be at the end of the DSSI bus.4   < You can get tri link connectors that allow it to go mid way.  < There may be terminating resistors that need to be removed ?   -- 6( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com9   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:42:28 -0500g2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>6 Subject: Excellent press release from Northrop Grumman3 Message-ID: <b0MN7.2149$RL6.63578@news.cpqcorp.net>d  I MELBOURNE, Fla., Nov. 27, 2001 -- Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC)eI today announced the delivery of the next Block 20 E-8C Joint SurveillancedH Target Attack Radar System (Joint STARS) aircraft to the U.S. Air Force,H nearly two months ahead of schedule. This is the eighth consecutive E-8CA that the company's Integrated Systems sector has delivered early. J "We've worked hard to provide the U.S. Air Force with a very sophisticatedK airborne ground surveillance capability by applying advanced technology andGJ incorporating commercially developed processors. The teamwork exhibited byL the manufacturing line in Louisiana, the systems integrators in Florida, andJ our Electronic Systems partners in Connecticut has been outstanding," saidG Ralph D. Crosby Jr., corporate vice president and president of Northrop K Grumman Integrated Systems. "In addition to the great working relationshipssJ we enjoy with our suppliers, the successful application of Lean ManagementD principles has had a major impact on streamlining our production and delivery processes."  F The Block 20 E-8C's contain commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) technologyL computers for operating the Joint STARS surveillance equipment. CommerciallyL available computer systems provide the Air Force with increased reliability,I advanced technologies and increased processing power, all at a lower cost F per aircraft. Each airplane uses systems from Mercury Computer Systems9 (Nasdaq:MRCY) and Compaq Computer Corporation (NYSE:CPQ).-  I "The inclusion of dual-redundant Mercury RACE systems provides each Joint>K STARS aircraft with significant processing power for solving our customer'shH most demanding signal processing requirements," said Vince Mancuso, viceE president and general manager of Mercury Computer Systems' Government K Electronics Group. "Working closely with Northrop Grumman, Mercury providesoJ the Joint STARS aircraft with reliable, real-time computing power packagedL within fully integrated, COTS systems designed to meet the extreme space andL power consumption constraints and operating environments typical of airborne military applications."u  J "The use of commercially available technology, like Compaq's OpenVMS-basedK AlphaServer ES40CV systems in military surveillance and combat environments J that traditionally require highly specialized and customized systems, is aI testament to their performance, reliability and functionality," said Rich I Marcello, vice president and general manager of Compaq's High Performance  Systems Division.a  L Northrop Grumman's Integrated Systems sector is the prime contractor for theI E-8C Joint STARS. Norden Systems, a unit of Northrop Grumman's Electronic : Systems sector, manufactures the Joint STARS radar sensor.  J Airframe refurbishment and modification takes place at Integrated Systems'L Airborne Ground Surveillance and Battle Management (AGS&BM) Systems facilityJ in Louisiana. The Joint STARS radar and the computer systems are installedH at AGS&BM Systems Florida facility, where the team completes work on theG production aircraft with ground and flight-testing. AGS&BM Systems also H provides support to the user under a Total System Support ResponsibilityI (TSSR) contract. The TSSR effort is a unique partnership between Northrop.K Grumman and the Air Force to provide the most efficient support to the E-8C B Joint STARS fleet, maximizing operational availability and mission reliability.  J Northrop Grumman's Integrated Systems, headquartered in Dallas, Tex., is aL premier aerospace systems integration enterprise. Integrated Systems has theH capabilities to design, develop, integrate, produce and support completeF systems, as well as airframe subsystems, for airborne surveillance andG battle management aircraft, early warning aircraft, airborne electronici) warfare aircraft and air combat aircraft.u  K Northrop Grumman Corporation is a $15 billion, global aerospace and defense H company with its worldwide headquarters in Los Angeles. Northrop GrummanL provides technologically advance, innovated products, services and solutionsG in defense and commercial electronics, systems integration, informationeK technology, and non-nuclear shipbuilding and systems. With 80,000 employeeseJ and operations in 44 states and 25 countries, Northrop Grumman serves U.S.@ and international military, government and commercial customers.  I Compaq, the Compaq logo, AlphaServer and OpenVMS are trademarks of CompaqyK Information Technologies Group, L.P. Mercury RACE is a trademark of Mercurya Computer Systems, Inc.  L Members of the news media may receive our releases via e-mail by registering4 at: http://www.northgrum.com/cgi-bin/regist_form.cgi  I LEARN MORE ABOUT US: Northrop Grumman news releases, product information,d8 photos and video clips are available on the Internet at:F http://www.northropgrumman.com. Information specific to the IntegratedC Systems sector is available at: http://www.iss.northropgrumman.com.w  - CONTACT:  Northrop Grumman Integrated Systemsp           Jim Stratfordm           (321) 726-7526   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:45:52 -0500E- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e: Subject: Re: Excellent press release from Northrop Grumman, Message-ID: <3C07B7BA.36BA73B8@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:H > The Block 20 E-8C's contain commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) technologyN > computers for operating the Joint STARS surveillance equipment. CommerciallyN > available computer systems provide the Air Force with increased reliability,K > advanced technologies and increased processing power, all at a lower coste > per aircraft.   I With wording like this, you wonder why Compaq insists on refusing to call:! Alpha and VMS "industry standard",   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:23:28 -0000 4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: ftp performanceB Message-ID: <1007112063.27933.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  0 Thanks for the suggestions - no help I'm afraid.J 1. Default extend quantity is set to 1000 blocks. I think mgftp is able toH preallocate the full file size anyway (I've been benchmaking with a 50Mb file).L 2. Yes, the cards are seen as 1000 & 100. I don't know how to persuade it to8 use the best all the time (short of unplugging the 100).G 3. I'm pretty certain we're not running on 10Mb. 800k/s would be beyond F saturation point I'd think. There is still some old 10Mb in one officeI (behind a switch), but all the core kit (which these machines all are) isoK running on switched 100 or better. But I'm not greedy - I'd be content if Is could get 800k/s to VMS.- Another test: Solaris to VMS (mgftp) 1100k/s.l9 So it would appear that the problem may not lie with VMS.eL Any more suggestions ? Or another newsgroup I should be asking in ? Please ?   Thanks,t Chrisd  8 "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us> wrote in message: news:1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D19@DOAISD02003...L > Make sure VMS sees the device at the speed you think.  If not show console
 > variableJ > ew*0_mode or ei*0_mode appropriately.  It/they should be probably be set to	 > fastFD.c > 
 > $ mcr lancpe > LANCP> show dev /char2 > Device Characteristics EWA0:) >                   Value  Characteristich) >                   -----  --------------4- >                    1500  Device buffer size * >                  Normal  Controller mode1 >                External  Internal loopback modee/ >       xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN address 1 >                          Multicast address lists/ >                 CSMA/CD  Communication mediume. >       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address2 >                      64  Minimum receive buffers2 >                     128  Maximum receive buffers- >                     Yes  Full duplex enablen2 >                     Yes  Full duplex operational* >             Unspecified  Line media typeH >                    1000  Line speed (mbps)   <------------------------ >  > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com]t. > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:46 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh  > > Subject: Re: ftp performance > >  > >t > > Chris Sharman wrote: > > >d> > > > We've got a ds20e connected via both a 100M card & a 1Gb > > card & a Mac file1 > > > server (100M only).j > > > [...]"# > > > Suggestions anyone ? Hunter ?j > >RH > > Because none of the transfer rates exceeds 800 KB/s, I guess, you're > > just sitting> > > on a 10Mb network, regardles of the cards you're using ... > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:29:04 -0000n4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: ftp performanceB Message-ID: <1007112381.15273.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  
 Oh mumble.J The Mac (100Mb card, connected to 100Mb switch) has negotiated itself down to 10Mb.   Sorry, Chrisb  ? "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messagea< news:1007112063.27933.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...2 > Thanks for the suggestions - no help I'm afraid.L > 1. Default extend quantity is set to 1000 blocks. I think mgftp is able toJ > preallocate the full file size anyway (I've been benchmaking with a 50Mb > file).K > 2. Yes, the cards are seen as 1000 & 100. I don't know how to persuade itu to: > use the best all the time (short of unplugging the 100).I > 3. I'm pretty certain we're not running on 10Mb. 800k/s would be beyondiH > saturation point I'd think. There is still some old 10Mb in one officeK > (behind a switch), but all the core kit (which these machines all are) isoK > running on switched 100 or better. But I'm not greedy - I'd be content if  It > could get 800k/s to VMS./ > Another test: Solaris to VMS (mgftp) 1100k/s.1; > So it would appear that the problem may not lie with VMS.tL > Any more suggestions ? Or another newsgroup I should be asking in ? Please ?r > 	 > Thanks,g > Chrisr >n: > "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us> wrote in message< > news:1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D19@DOAISD02003...F > > Make sure VMS sees the device at the speed you think.  If not show consoles > > variableL > > ew*0_mode or ei*0_mode appropriately.  It/they should be probably be set > to > > fastFD.s > >e > > $ mcr lancpe > > LANCP> show dev /char   > > Device Characteristics EWA0:+ > >                   Value  Characteristic-+ > >                   -----  --------------r/ > >                    1500  Device buffer sizea, > >                  Normal  Controller mode3 > >                External  Internal loopback mode 1 > >       xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN addressw3 > >                          Multicast address lista1 > >                 CSMA/CD  Communication medium,0 > >       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address4 > >                      64  Minimum receive buffers4 > >                     128  Maximum receive buffers/ > >                     Yes  Full duplex enable-4 > >                     Yes  Full duplex operational, > >             Unspecified  Line media typeJ > >                    1000  Line speed (mbps)   <------------------------ > >e  > > > -----Original Message-----5 > > > From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com]e0 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:46 AM > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come" > > > Subject: Re: ftp performance > > >e > > >e > > > Chris Sharman wrote: > > > > @ > > > > We've got a ds20e connected via both a 100M card & a 1Gb > > > card & a Mac filet > > > > server (100M only).t
 > > > > [...]s% > > > > Suggestions anyone ? Hunter ?g > > >aJ > > > Because none of the transfer rates exceeds 800 KB/s, I guess, you're > > > just sitting@ > > > on a 10Mb network, regardles of the cards you're using ... > > >h >i >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 08:05:02 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: ftp performance3 Message-ID: <d2ksJCoSCEEu@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  y In article <1007112063.27933.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> writes:t2 > Thanks for the suggestions - no help I'm afraid.L > 1. Default extend quantity is set to 1000 blocks. I think mgftp is able toJ > preallocate the full file size anyway (I've been benchmaking with a 50Mb > file).  H Neat trick when file size is not part of the ftp protocol.  Your typical! FTP dialogue goes something like:u   user:    FTP> put filename.dat@          (client allocates a free TCP port and starts listening) client:  PORT 1,2,3,4,5,6a% server:  200 PORT command successful.a client:  STOR filename.dat8          (server makes connection to the indicated port)$          (client accepts connection)C server:  150 ASCII data connection for filename.dat (1.2.3.4,7680). A          (client pours data from filename.dat out the connection)CA 	 (server sucks data from connection and puts it in filename.dat)tH          (client hits end-of-file on filename.dat and closes connection)C          (server sees the connection close and closes filename.dat)T server:  226 Transfer complete.g  F You are talking about a Windows FTP client pushing data at a VMS mgftp server, right?  E Given your subsequent test with Solaris able to drive VMS at 1100KB/siC I am forced to agree that default extend quantity is not the issue,c however.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:21:05 -0000i4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: ftp performanceA Message-ID: <1007129922.5682.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>n  J > Neat trick when file size is not part of the ftp protocol.  Your typical# > FTP dialogue goes something like:e  G Merely observing what mgftp actually does. I think it implements a sizeyG command itself. Whether it uses the directory/full command to determine.J remote size from other servers or what, I don't know, but where native vmsK ftp allocates 1000ish blocks at a time, mgftp allocates the exact amount upnH front. I observed this fetching the dce 3.0 u1 patch from Compaq - don't+ know which remote ftps it can do this with.   H > You are talking about a Windows FTP client pushing data at a VMS mgftp > server, right?  4 No. A VMS client pulling data from a Mac ftp server.E Comparison figures are either for the VMS client with Solaris; or for , Mac/Windows clients with the Mac ftp server.  L I've tried type ascii/image, various modes (only stream supported), passive,H various window sizes (4k-128k, 64k seems best, although the variation is small).c   Chrisa   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:28:21 -000014 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: ftp performanceA Message-ID: <1007130365.5895.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>a  E The mac in question now has a new network card, and is now definitelyr running at 100Mb. 8 I'm getting ftp throughput of around 220-240k/s (mgftp).J If I submit two ftp downloads simultaneously, they both achieve throughput7 of 220k/s, so there's no shortage of network bandwidth. & Solaris to VMS goes at around 1100k/s.( Mac-Mac & Mac to PC manage up to 800k/s.J None of them very impressive on a 100Mb network, but they'd be adequate: a* 50M file would take 1 minute instead of 5.1 I'm convinced this is an ftp performance problem.   ? "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messagei< news:1007112381.15273.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk... > Oh mumble.L > The Mac (100Mb card, connected to 100Mb switch) has negotiated itself down
 > to 10Mb. >  > Sorry, > Chris  >rA > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messager> > news:1007112063.27933.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...4 > > Thanks for the suggestions - no help I'm afraid.K > > 1. Default extend quantity is set to 1000 blocks. I think mgftp is ablee toL > > preallocate the full file size anyway (I've been benchmaking with a 50Mb
 > > file).J > > 2. Yes, the cards are seen as 1000 & 100. I don't know how to persuade it > to< > > use the best all the time (short of unplugging the 100).K > > 3. I'm pretty certain we're not running on 10Mb. 800k/s would be beyondeJ > > saturation point I'd think. There is still some old 10Mb in one officeJ > > (behind a switch), but all the core kit (which these machines all are) isJ > > running on switched 100 or better. But I'm not greedy - I'd be content if > Ih > > could get 800k/s to VMS.1 > > Another test: Solaris to VMS (mgftp) 1100k/s.t= > > So it would appear that the problem may not lie with VMS.nG > > Any more suggestions ? Or another newsgroup I should be asking in ?a Please > ?e > >t > > Thanks,s	 > > Chrise > > < > > "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us> wrote in message> > > news:1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D19@DOAISD02003...H > > > Make sure VMS sees the device at the speed you think.  If not show	 > consolea > > > variableJ > > > ew*0_mode or ei*0_mode appropriately.  It/they should be probably be set  > > to
 > > > fastFD.p > > >  > > > $ mcr lancpb > > > LANCP> show dev /char " > > > Device Characteristics EWA0:- > > >                   Value  Characteristict- > > >                   -----  --------------e1 > > >                    1500  Device buffer sizee. > > >                  Normal  Controller mode5 > > >                External  Internal loopback modea3 > > >       xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN addressi5 > > >                          Multicast address list 3 > > >                 CSMA/CD  Communication medium 2 > > >       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address6 > > >                      64  Minimum receive buffers6 > > >                     128  Maximum receive buffers1 > > >                     Yes  Full duplex enablee6 > > >                     Yes  Full duplex operational. > > >             Unspecified  Line media typeL > > >                    1000  Line speed (mbps)   <------------------------ > > >c" > > > > -----Original Message-----7 > > > > From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com]t2 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:46 AM! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com'$ > > > > Subject: Re: ftp performance > > > >l > > > >r > > > > Chris Sharman wrote:	 > > > > >nB > > > > > We've got a ds20e connected via both a 100M card & a 1Gb > > > > card & a Mac fileT > > > > > server (100M only).e > > > > > [...] ' > > > > > Suggestions anyone ? Hunter ?n > > > >mL > > > > Because none of the transfer rates exceeds 800 KB/s, I guess, you're > > > > just sittingB > > > > on a 10Mb network, regardles of the cards you're using ... > > > >a > >n > >b >e >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:46:16 -0700e- From: "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us>b Subject: RE: ftp performance@ Message-ID: <1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D1B@DOAISD02003>  G Have you done a capture to what your real TCP window size is during them* xfer?  The MAC may be negotiating it down.   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Chris Sharman [mailto:chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk]u) > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 7:28 AMi > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comf > Subject: Re: ftp performance >  > G > The mac in question now has a new network card, and is now definitelya > running at 100Mb. : > I'm getting ftp throughput of around 220-240k/s (mgftp).: > If I submit two ftp downloads simultaneously, they both  > achieve throughput9 > of 220k/s, so there's no shortage of network bandwidth.s( > Solaris to VMS goes at around 1100k/s.* > Mac-Mac & Mac to PC manage up to 800k/s.> > None of them very impressive on a 100Mb network, but they'd  > be adequate: a, > 50M file would take 1 minute instead of 5.3 > I'm convinced this is an ftp performance problem.p > A > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messageI> > news:1007112381.15273.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk... > > Oh mumble.8 > > The Mac (100Mb card, connected to 100Mb switch) has  > negotiated itself down > > to 10Mb. > >c
 > > Sorry,	 > > Chris  > >mC > > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messaget@ > > news:1007112063.27933.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...6 > > > Thanks for the suggestions - no help I'm afraid.@ > > > 1. Default extend quantity is set to 1000 blocks. I think  > mgftp is ableh > to7 > > > preallocate the full file size anyway (I've been r > benchmaking with a 50Mbn > > > file).= > > > 2. Yes, the cards are seen as 1000 & 100. I don't know c > how to persuadet > it > > to> > > > use the best all the time (short of unplugging the 100).> > > > 3. I'm pretty certain we're not running on 10Mb. 800k/s  > would be beyondm? > > > saturation point I'd think. There is still some old 10Mb c > in one office ; > > > (behind a switch), but all the core kit (which these k > machines all are)t > is> > > > running on switched 100 or better. But I'm not greedy -  > I'd be content > if > > Ir > > > could get 800k/s to VMS.3 > > > Another test: Solaris to VMS (mgftp) 1100k/s.w? > > > So it would appear that the problem may not lie with VMS.r> > > > Any more suggestions ? Or another newsgroup I should be 
 > asking in ?a > Please > > ?n > > >a
 > > > Thanks,n > > > Chrisn > > >n> > > > "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us> wrote in message@ > > > news:1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D19@DOAISD02003...? > > > > Make sure VMS sees the device at the speed you think.  3
 > If not show  > > console- > > > > variable> > > > > ew*0_mode or ei*0_mode appropriately.  It/they should  > be probably be > set  > > > to > > > > fastFD.s > > > >f > > > > $ mcr lancp  > > > > LANCP> show dev /charv$ > > > > Device Characteristics EWA0:/ > > > >                   Value  Characteristics/ > > > >                   -----  -------------- 3 > > > >                    1500  Device buffer size 0 > > > >                  Normal  Controller mode7 > > > >                External  Internal loopback mode 5 > > > >       xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN address 7 > > > >                          Multicast address lista5 > > > >                 CSMA/CD  Communication medium 4 > > > >       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address8 > > > >                      64  Minimum receive buffers8 > > > >                     128  Maximum receive buffers3 > > > >                     Yes  Full duplex enablew8 > > > >                     Yes  Full duplex operational0 > > > >             Unspecified  Line media type5 > > > >                    1000  Line speed (mbps)   l > <------------------------b > > > >g$ > > > > > -----Original Message-----9 > > > > > From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com]o4 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:46 AM# > > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > > > > > Subject: Re: ftp performance	 > > > > >n	 > > > > >t > > > > > Chris Sharman wrote: > > > > > >iD > > > > > > We've got a ds20e connected via both a 100M card & a 1Gb > > > > > card & a Mac file  > > > > > > server (100M only).  > > > > > > [...] ) > > > > > > Suggestions anyone ? Hunter ? 	 > > > > >V? > > > > > Because none of the transfer rates exceeds 800 KB/s,   > I guess, you're  > > > > > just sittingD > > > > > on a 10Mb network, regardles of the cards you're using ...	 > > > > >B > > >  > > >l > >e > >s >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:37:33 -0000a4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: ftp performanceB Message-ID: <1007138099.17648.0.nnrp-14.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  L That seems very likely - how do I do that (a) for the VMS transfer & (b) for( the other (Mac/Mac & Mac/PC) transfers ?H [I looked at TCPtrace, but I didn't really know what it was telling me.]   Thanks,  Chris0  8 "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us> wrote in message: news:1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D1B@DOAISD02003... > I > Have you done a capture to what your real TCP window size is during thel, > xfer?  The MAC may be negotiating it down. >C > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: Chris Sharman [mailto:chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk] + > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 7:28 AM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   > > Subject: Re: ftp performance > >e > >nI > > The mac in question now has a new network card, and is now definitelyf > > running at 100Mb. < > > I'm getting ftp throughput of around 220-240k/s (mgftp).; > > If I submit two ftp downloads simultaneously, they bothe > > achieve throughput; > > of 220k/s, so there's no shortage of network bandwidth. * > > Solaris to VMS goes at around 1100k/s., > > Mac-Mac & Mac to PC manage up to 800k/s.? > > None of them very impressive on a 100Mb network, but they'da > > be adequate: a. > > 50M file would take 1 minute instead of 5.5 > > I'm convinced this is an ftp performance problem.  > > C > > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in message'@ > > news:1007112381.15273.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk... > > > Oh mumble.9 > > > The Mac (100Mb card, connected to 100Mb switch) haso > > negotiated itself down > > > to 10Mb. > > >s > > > Sorry, > > > Chrisu > > >RE > > > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messagewB > > > news:1007112063.27933.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...8 > > > > Thanks for the suggestions - no help I'm afraid.A > > > > 1. Default extend quantity is set to 1000 blocks. I thinke > > mgftp is able2 > > to8 > > > > preallocate the full file size anyway (I've been > > benchmaking with a 50Mbr > > > > file).> > > > > 2. Yes, the cards are seen as 1000 & 100. I don't know > > how to persuade  > > it > > > to@ > > > > use the best all the time (short of unplugging the 100).? > > > > 3. I'm pretty certain we're not running on 10Mb. 800k/s  > > would be beyonde@ > > > > saturation point I'd think. There is still some old 10Mb > > in one officeM< > > > > (behind a switch), but all the core kit (which these > > machines all are)b > > is? > > > > running on switched 100 or better. But I'm not greedy -c > > I'd be content > > if > > > Ic  > > > > could get 800k/s to VMS.5 > > > > Another test: Solaris to VMS (mgftp) 1100k/s..A > > > > So it would appear that the problem may not lie with VMS.p? > > > > Any more suggestions ? Or another newsgroup I should beo > > asking in ?e
 > > Please > > > ?s > > > >  > > > > Thanks, 
 > > > > Chrisi > > > > @ > > > > "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us> wrote in messageB > > > > news:1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2D19@DOAISD02003...? > > > > > Make sure VMS sees the device at the speed you think.s > > If not show 
 > > > consolee > > > > > variable? > > > > > ew*0_mode or ei*0_mode appropriately.  It/they should  > > be probably be > > sets
 > > > > to > > > > > fastFD.a	 > > > > >E > > > > > $ mcr lancp  > > > > > LANCP> show dev /char & > > > > > Device Characteristics EWA0:1 > > > > >                   Value  Characteristic 1 > > > > >                   -----  -------------- 5 > > > > >                    1500  Device buffer size 2 > > > > >                  Normal  Controller mode9 > > > > >                External  Internal loopback mode 7 > > > > >       xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN address-9 > > > > >                          Multicast address listn7 > > > > >                 CSMA/CD  Communication mediumm6 > > > > >       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address: > > > > >                      64  Minimum receive buffers: > > > > >                     128  Maximum receive buffers5 > > > > >                     Yes  Full duplex enable-: > > > > >                     Yes  Full duplex operational2 > > > > >             Unspecified  Line media type4 > > > > >                    1000  Line speed (mbps) > > <------------------------ 	 > > > > >:& > > > > > > -----Original Message-----; > > > > > > From: emanuel stiebler [mailto:emu@ecubics.com]n6 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:46 AM% > > > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > > > > > > Subject: Re: ftp performance > > > > > >  > > > > > >a  > > > > > > Chris Sharman wrote:
 > > > > > > >IF > > > > > > > We've got a ds20e connected via both a 100M card & a 1Gb > > > > > > card & a Mac file ! > > > > > > > server (100M only).- > > > > > > > [...]0+ > > > > > > > Suggestions anyone ? Hunter ?a > > > > > >u@ > > > > > > Because none of the transfer rates exceeds 800 KB/s, > > I guess, you'rea > > > > > > just sittingF > > > > > > on a 10Mb network, regardles of the cards you're using ... > > > > > >r > > > >  > > > >r > > >g > > >s > >  > >I   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 10:56:04 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: ftp performance= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111301056.281d5f0f@posting.google.com>s  } "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1007053505.2905.0.nnrp-02.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>...eL > We've got a ds20e connected via both a 100M card & a 1Gb card & a Mac file > server (100M only).m4 > We can transfer files Mac to Mac at around 600k/s.1 > Mac to ie5.0/win2000 seems to be around 220k/s. 6 > Mac to ftpnetdrive/win2000 seems to be around 800k/s( > Mac to VMS is consistently 170-180k/s.M > This is using vms 7.3, tcp/ip 5.1-3, native ftp, mgftp2.6-5 (with & withouts= > sysprv, and with madgoat_ftp_window_size 64000 and 131072). $ > All in binary mode where possible.C > Nothing seems to have significant impact on the throughput rates.i# > Anything else to try or look at ?e >  > Suggestions anyone ? Hunter ?   M what kind of card do you have in the alpha machine?  we have had trouble with?; our alphas before running anything less than a DE500-BA ...    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 08:29:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)- Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <OPVA03vUiLLv@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  { In article <slrna0btrj.c5o.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>, bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) writes:c > O >         Don't forget that OpenVMS is only avalaible on VAX and APX. I believe L > that this system can be more used if it is avalaible on more architecture.I > Thus, I have restarted the old FreeVMS project. First, I was alone, buteH > we are currenty about 30. We are working on kernel, libraries and DCL,4 > and we have a SRM-like console which runs on i386. >   C    The page says the kernel is Posix, and FreeVMS is that plus DCL.e3    If that's really all you're doing, it ain't VMS.n   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 08:32:54 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <g$yd4GGDxpzz@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  i In article <3C06799B.E4B2085A@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:r  G > And I believe that the only truly encouraging sign to come out of all G > this deal with Intel is the fact that as the porting takes place, thei2 > hardware dependencies in VMS are being reduced.   F    The possibilities of a not-only IPF port have already been rumored,@    and the value of other potential processors have already been#    commented on as well as beat up.9  D    All of which reminds me of the IPF version discussions in some ofB    Mac's OS X documents.  I'm not waiting for it to ship, but it's    not a terrible idea.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:57:54 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?< Message-ID: <S7NN7.1041$zX1.1935979@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:g$yd4GGDxpzz@eisner.encompasserve.org...iC > In article <3C06799B.E4B2085A@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean ' <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:u >oI > > And I believe that the only truly encouraging sign to come out of all.I > > this deal with Intel is the fact that as the porting takes place, thea3 > > hardware dependencies in VMS are being reduced.  >iH >    The possibilities of a not-only IPF port have already been rumored,B >    and the value of other potential processors have already been% >    commented on as well as beat up.I >aF >    All of which reminds me of the IPF version discussions in some ofD >    Mac's OS X documents.  I'm not waiting for it to ship, but it's >    not a terrible idea.   J The folks in Spit Brook seem to share this opinion. I'm unaware of currentK VMS porting effort beyond the IPF project, but once VMS is on IPF, hardware.E dependency is a thing of the past. If another 64b architecture lookedbL attractive, there would be no technical reason why CPQ or HWPQ couldn't do a port.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Nov 2001 14:55:12 GMTB From: bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?6 Message-ID: <slrna0f7eg.gho.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>   Le 30 Nov 2001 08:29:26 -0600 2 Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> crivait :| >In article <slrna0btrj.c5o.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>, bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) writes: >>  P >>         Don't forget that OpenVMS is only avalaible on VAX and APX. I believeM >> that this system can be more used if it is avalaible on more architecture.tJ >> Thus, I have restarted the old FreeVMS project. First, I was alone, butI >> we are currenty about 30. We are working on kernel, libraries and DCL, 5 >> and we have a SRM-like console which runs on i386.> >>   > D >   The page says the kernel is Posix, and FreeVMS is that plus DCL.4 >   If that's really all you're doing, it ain't VMS.  < 	It's a starting point. We need more contributers to write aB real OS which can works on several architectures. Any help will be welcome.  	 	Regards,    	JKB   --  B Il s'est sans doute laiss impressionner par les cris d'orfraie du$ quarteron de fufopithques en furie.A -+- MB in: Guide du Cabaliste Usenet - Bien configurer son MB -+-    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:09:43 -0500n* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?) Message-ID: <3C07A137.2090605@compaq.com>l   Terry C. Shannon wrote:   " > but once VMS is on IPF, hardware$ > dependency is a thing of the past.    A You never remove hardware dependencies from operating systems by -I definition.  You can isolate them, you can abstract them, you might even  ' assume them, but you don't remove them.t    %  > If another 64b architecture looked A  > attractive, there would be no technical reason why CPQ or HWPQf  > couldn't do a port.  ) You must have one hell of a crystal ball.    --   John Reaganv' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadera   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:52:00 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <dZNN7.2169$RL6.63568@news.cpqcorp.net>'   Bill Todd wrote in message ... >a     SNIP  I >I can certainly speak for those who have aired similar views here, which K >appears to be a sizable fraction of the participants in this forum.  I canmJ >also speak for VMS's general invisibility in the larger world, both based onI >anecdotes reported frequently here and on countless industry articles by B >people one would really expect to know better referring to VMS as
 'defunct',K >'legacy', 'VAX/VMS', and various other ways (often in the past tense) that H >I'd have to dig out but have no difficulty remembering having seen (our< >advocacy group last year was collecting them at one point). >m2 >  Stop turning your *personal* feelings into some+ >> generalization about how everyone feels.  >1G >Stop assuming the worst without having a clue about what I'm basing myI >statements on.o >o >  Or are you assering that the G >> narrow cross section of people who read this newsgroup, and the evend >smallerD >> number who actually write in it - provide all the input you need? >8C >No - see above.  And next time, try asking before making a fool of 	 yourself.u >:    H Please educate me - oh great sage.  What is that I need to ask you?  You have not uttered anything new.  K It is interesting to note that I continue to get personal mail from readers2I of cov, who would rather not enter the "Who can Bill call an idiot today"aK club by writing in this forum.  Oh, and they happen to be actual customers.    _Fred    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:04:42 -0500r5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>. Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <79ON7.2170$RL6.63640@news.cpqcorp.net>I  A David Froble wrote in message <3C06C4C3.6060005@tsoft-inc.com>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >o > = >> I also believe VMS will be fine regardless of the outcome.m >> >> _FRed >nE >Fred has stated this opinion multiple times now.  In pretty much the F >same manner each time.  I'm beginning to get a feeling that it may be( >more than it may appear on the surface. >m    J It is just my opinion.  I've lived through every doom and gloom predictionH made over the last decade about the future of VMS.  While some have comeH partially true, none of the dire predictions have materialized, and many were flat out wrong.  K VMS is a very profitable business, though smaller than it was at it's peak. L *I* find it highly unlikely that *any* possible outcome would result in it'sK sudden (say less than a decade) demise.  And I think I have thought of moreh- worst-case scenerios than any presented here.   H I only write in this forum occasionally, because the voices of gloom andF doom seem to dominate (which is human nature - the negative viewpoints# always seem to have louder voices).C   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:11:34 -0500t5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <zfON7.2171$RL6.63639@news.cpqcorp.net>y   Brannon Batson wrote in message 4 <4495ef1f.0111291814.74e481a8@posting.google.com>...9 >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in messaget/ news:<Icosn97NYW9m@eisner.encompasserve.org>...CD >> In article <3C06799B.E4B2085A@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean' <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:r >>J >> > I also want to point out that current porting is to IA64 and is _not_ toH >> > the target IPF platform which is still 2, 3, 4 .. ? years away.  It mustI >> > be reasonable to assume that some degree of change would be required H >> > between IA64 and (whatever), but perhaps that change will be minor. >>2 >> There were changes from 21064 to 21164 as well. >MF >I'd like to point out (without passing judgement) that you seem to beE >equating Alpha's philosophy on instruction set changes with Intel's.  >     L I think that we had a reasonable good process to debate changes to the AlphaK instruction set.  None-the-less, this did not shelter us from changes (even-B when it was't the instruction set, but the *implementation* of theL instruction set - or platform implementations) in the OS, and sometimes down to effecting user code.0  G The x86 instruction set, and the changes to it over time were even morepH successful (business wise) than the VAX instruction set - and maintainedL binary compatability over a very long period of time (in fact, Microsoft hasC had more to do with breaking binary compaability that the x86 ISA).   J I can easily imagine changes to the IA64 ISA over time, but it wouldn't beF prudent for Intel to make incompatable changes that would break binaryL compatability for user level code.  The OS, on the other hand will always beA more sensitive to changes in both the privledged architecture and - platforms - which was also the case on Alpha.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:25:04 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?, Message-ID: <3C07B2DC.334A0D6D@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:E > VMS itself was already in a "how can we grow these segments" mode. s  K Customers see "Compaq is narrowing the number of segments VMS is allowed to]L compete in and the poor VMS management/engineers are trying to survive in an ever smaller pool".D   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:18:46 -0500w5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>T Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <jmON7.2172$RL6.63558@news.cpqcorp.net>h  " BERTRAND Jol wrote in message ... >Le 30 Nov 2001 08:29:26 -06003 >Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> crivait :.8 >>In article <slrna0btrj.c5o.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>,D bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) writes: >>>uI >>>         Don't forget that OpenVMS is only avalaible on VAX and APX. Ip believef@ >>> that this system can be more used if it is avalaible on more
 architecture. K >>> Thus, I have restarted the old FreeVMS project. First, I was alone, butSJ >>> we are currenty about 30. We are working on kernel, libraries and DCL,6 >>> and we have a SRM-like console which runs on i386. >>>  >>E >>   The page says the kernel is Posix, and FreeVMS is that plus DCL. 5 >>   If that's really all you're doing, it ain't VMS.  >C= > It's a starting point. We need more contributers to write a C >real OS which can works on several architectures. Any help will be 	 >welcome.. >     J IMHO - a "freeVMS" project would do well to use a widely available kernel,C such as Linux.  While replicating the VMS API's, utilities and user I interface.  Providing source level compatability for "many" applications.eG This ignores, of course, issues like availability of languages like DECs5 Fortran, BLISS, and anything with old DEC-extensions.D  K Yes, it's not "VMS", but writing true OS support for multiple platforms and I architectures is a great deal of very technical work... and not somethingn3 that really lends itself to part time contribution.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:21:40 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <0pON7.2173$RL6.63683@news.cpqcorp.net>   = John Reagan wrote in message <3C07A137.2090605@compaq.com>...s >Terry C. Shannon wrote: >e# >> but once VMS is on IPF, hardwareb% >> dependency is a thing of the past.a >n >aA >You never remove hardware dependencies from operating systems bymI >definition.  You can isolate them, you can abstract them, you might evenk( >assume them, but you don't remove them. >V    G Yup.  OpenVMS will take a next step in abstracting some of the hardware F dependencies.  But it would be foolish to assume that porting to a new, architecture becomes some type of cake walk.   > & > > If another 64b architecture lookedB > > attractive, there would be no technical reason why CPQ or HWPQ > > couldn't do a port.C >3* >You must have one hell of a crystal ball. >     L The question always has been having a business reason, more than a technical reason.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:56:09 -0500/5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <mVON7.2175$RL6.63558@news.cpqcorp.net>c  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C07B2DC.334A0D6D@videotron.ca>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:sE >> VMS itself was already in a "how can we grow these segments" mode.  > L >Customers see "Compaq is narrowing the number of segments VMS is allowed toJ >compete in and the poor VMS management/engineers are trying to survive in an >ever smaller pool".  J Actually, it is a strategy that says "we have strengths in these segments,K make sure we keep them and increase our share in them".  It doesn't exclude J business outside of the segment focus, and includes the ability to add new+ segments when a market opportunity is seen.   L There is no business that we "are not allowed to compete in" - but there areK parts of the overall Compaq business where OpenVMS is weak, and other partslJ of Compaq are strong - and it would make little or no sense to try to sell OpenVMS into it.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 11:14:15 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?3 Message-ID: <Evl44P$I097K@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  \ In article <3C07B2DC.334A0D6D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:F >> VMS itself was already in a "how can we grow these segments" mode.  > M > Customers see "Compaq is narrowing the number of segments VMS is allowed to N > compete in and the poor VMS management/engineers are trying to survive in an > ever smaller pool".a  @ 	The number of segments has actually increased.  Compare new and> 	old VMS swoop insignias for instance.  And no, I can't recall  	the one segment that was added.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:41:19 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>  Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?5 Message-ID: <3C07C4BF.1B2F9734@swissonline.delete.ch>p   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  .... > L > It is just my opinion.  I've lived through every doom and gloom predictionJ > made over the last decade about the future of VMS.  While some have comeJ > partially true, none of the dire predictions have materialized, and many > were flat out wrong. > M > VMS is a very profitable business, though smaller than it was at it's peak.0N > *I* find it highly unlikely that *any* possible outcome would result in it's) > sudden (say less than a decade) demise.1    @ That sounds like it is said with "Digital logic" and not "CompaqA logic".  I suspect that many of us feel that "Compaq logic" is an0 oxymoron most of time.     John McLeane   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:20:27 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?0 Message-ID: <00A05D2A.3D65DE34@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <mVON7.2175$RL6.63558@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:-> >JF Mezei wrote in message <3C07B2DC.334A0D6D@videotron.ca>... >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote:F >>> VMS itself was already in a "how can we grow these segments" mode. >>M >>Customers see "Compaq is narrowing the number of segments VMS is allowed tocK >>compete in and the poor VMS management/engineers are trying to survive in  >ant >>ever smaller pool".v >iK >Actually, it is a strategy that says "we have strengths in these segments,aL >make sure we keep them and increase our share in them".  It doesn't excludeK >business outside of the segment focus, and includes the ability to add newe, >segments when a market opportunity is seen. >eM >There is no business that we "are not allowed to compete in" - but there arerL >parts of the overall Compaq business where OpenVMS is weak, and other partsK >of Compaq are strong - and it would make little or no sense to try to sell  >OpenVMS into it.v  G I've already forwarded my comment on what I am about to share with you zG here to Sue Skonetski with a reqest that she forward it "up the ladder". so to speak.  G I received the following "comment" from a major/large software providert7 concerning future support of their products on OpenVMS.s  I >* The manufacturer is no longer committed to continue new development ofe8 >this product [VMS] ...apparently it is on it's way out.  I You can't continue selling VMS when software houses have formulated their  own beliefs about your product.l  I A stronger proponent for VMS than myself you will not find but VMS cannoteJ survive if misinformation is permitted -- thanks to COMPAQ for their lack-* luster promotion of it -- to drown it out.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMM            rJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:38:36 GMTc4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?< Message-ID: <MmQN7.1068$zX1.2004317@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A05D2A.3D65DE34@SendSpamHere.ORG... <snip> >eI > I received the following "comment" from a major/large software providerp9 > concerning future support of their products on OpenVMS.e > K > >* The manufacturer is no longer committed to continue new development ofe: > >this product [VMS] ...apparently it is on it's way out. >oK > You can't continue selling VMS when software houses have formulated their ! > own beliefs about your product.  >nK > A stronger proponent for VMS than myself you will not find but VMS cannot'L > survive if misinformation is permitted -- thanks to COMPAQ for their lack-, > luster promotion of it -- to drown it out. >e  
 Sad but true.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Nov 2001 13:57:48 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-= Subject: Re: Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLTm, Message-ID: <9u838s$2cem$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <9u735q$r4v$2@odo.ecs.umass.edu>,0  Joe Heimann <heimann@nog.ecs.umass.edu> writes: |>  N |> I don't know about HP, but IBM is selling SuperDLT drives already and listsM |> them as "In Stock" on their website.  The following page has a list of the.K |> various technology drives IBM is selling including DLT, the link for ther( |> SuperDLT drive is about halfway down: |> P; |>       http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/eserver/xseries/tape.htmlv |> lJ |> Of course, at a list price of $5999, it is not on my shopping list yet. |> t  H You know, when we outgrew our DAT drive here the same attitude surfaced.F DLT was just too expensive.  Until the building air conditioning brokeD over a weekend raising the temperature in the computer room close toF 100 deg. and frying the disk farm (that tended to run hot in the firstD place.)  The only real question is: What is the value of your data??   billB PS.  Just a a matter of curiosity, all my PDP and VAX systems withB RA disks and Fuji Eagles rode it out just fine. Most of the modern SCSI and IDE disk cooked.e   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:07:14 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Re: Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLTe) Message-ID: <3C07A0A2.D26B18D8@127.0.0.1>i   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > D > PS.  Just a a matter of curiosity, all my PDP and VAX systems withD > RA disks and Fuji Eagles rode it out just fine. Most of the modern > SCSI and IDE disk cooked.r  H Reminds me of the time I was managing a system with AES installed. I had6 a call from one of the overnight team at DEC hardware:  C "The RA drive reported the temperature at 42.6 degrees and has shut, down."  @ Among the many uses for a VMS system is a warning device for air conditioning breakdown!t  ? Did I ever tell you the story when our VMS box detected a fire?    -- T( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comf   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:44:42 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: HELP TYPE/HEADERi; Message-ID: <01KBBLF5O2RW90YLDV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r   TYPE  	   /HEADERc           /HEADERr         /NOHEADER   F      Specifies whether a header line is placed at the top of each file:      that is displayed with the TYPE /PAGE=3DSAVE command.  C First, this reminded me of a pet peeve: HELP should consistently=20 H indicate what the default is (it does this sometimes, but not in this=20	 example).   G Second, I wanted TYPE to do something else, namely suppress the file=20oI name when typing a list of files (normally, this is useful, but it has=20tK always annoyed me that the file name is NOT displayed for the first file=20 F in the list---anyone know why)?  Although it seems that the /HEADER=20L qualifier is only intended for use with the /PAGE=3DSAVE qualifier (which, =  K I think, was introduced in 6.X), I tried TYPE/NOHEADER (no /PAGE=3DSAVE,=20o) not even /PAGE) and it did what I wanted.e  
 Questions:=20   8 Is there any hope of HELP becoming even more consistent?  K Is the fact that I get what I want a) coincidence, b) expected behaviour=202G which got left out of HELP or c) a real "undocumented feature" which=20y shouldn't be relied on?i  H When was /HEADER introduced?  (If before /PAGE=3DSAVE, what does HELP=20/ TYPE/HEADER say on such an old version of VMS?)1     --=200H Phillip Helbig              Email ........... helbphi@sysdev.exchange.deJ Deutsche B=F6rse Systems AG   Email ... Phillip.Helbig@Deutsche-Boerse.comH Xetra/Eurex Operations      Tel. ...................... +49 69 2101 4921H 60485 Frankfurt am Main     Fax ....................... +49 69 2101 3411  H My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer and, no, I don't=20 have any stock tips for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:39:02 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i> Subject: Re: How to use Kermit within a VMS command procedure?, Message-ID: <3C07B621.43E03A24@videotron.ca>  ( re: using kermit in a command procedure:  ( $define/user/nolog sys$command sys$input $run kermit.exea set line TXC1: set speed 38000s etcr SEND myfile.txtn exit $write sys$output "done"  N Another way to do this is to have kermit invoke a script and let the script do all the processing  K I don't think that the old kermit-32 has access to cli symbols and logicalseJ for its scripting, but you can still define a logical name "myfile" beforeF invoking kermit and in kermit, you use a command such as "send myfile"   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 08:49:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?e3 Message-ID: <TTkCL9zQALew@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <9u4usr$jph$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: > Hello, > J > dragging a command-procedure or a program from the file manager over theK > "install icon" item in a CDE workspace adds the icon to the correspondingiN > menu. But as soon as I log out and log in again the icon has disappeared andL > I have to reinstall it again. I tried to save my current session, but thisL > didn't change anything. Thus, how can I make my change permanent? OpenVMS # > 7.1-2 and Decwindows-Motif 1.2-5.  >   H    Yep, fails regularly.  Went back to MWM.  Don't feel to bad.  CDE wasD    put together at HP, and it has similar problems on HP-UX.  FollowE    the directions on how to customize your desktop and watch it fail.o  D    HP used to do good instrumentation, good hardware, flashy looking5    user interfaces, but they never could do software.        And that's the future of VMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:25:28 -0500s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 5 Subject: Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?t3 Message-ID: <BsON7.2174$RL6.63665@news.cpqcorp.net>   K After having had to help some people on the COE project in customization of,I the desktop (of which I knew nothing).  My suggestion is to get a copy of)J some good CDE documentation, and hand edit the appropriate files - some ofC which will be in your [.DT] directory, and for all users in the CDE  directories.   _Fredi    Bob Koehler wrote in message ...J >In article <9u4usr$jph$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:	 >> Hello,a >>K >> dragging a command-procedure or a program from the file manager over thenL >> "install icon" item in a CDE workspace adds the icon to the correspondingK >> menu. But as soon as I log out and log in again the icon has disappeared- and-H >> I have to reinstall it again. I tried to save my current session, but thisL >> didn't change anything. Thus, how can I make my change permanent? OpenVMS$ >> 7.1-2 and Decwindows-Motif 1.2-5. >> > I >   Yep, fails regularly.  Went back to MWM.  Don't feel to bad.  CDE wasrE >   put together at HP, and it has similar problems on HP-UX.  FollowoF >   the directions on how to customize your desktop and watch it fail. > E >   HP used to do good instrumentation, good hardware, flashy looking 6 >   user interfaces, but they never could do software. >g! >   And that's the future of VMS?F >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:09:55 GMTA= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)B5 Subject: Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?n0 Message-ID: <00A05D28.C4B2F2F9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <BsON7.2174$RL6.63665@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:pL >After having had to help some people on the COE project in customization ofJ >the desktop (of which I knew nothing).  My suggestion is to get a copy ofK >some good CDE documentation, and hand edit the appropriate files - some oftD >which will be in your [.DT] directory, and for all users in the CDE
 >directories.c  = Hand editting would be an option of the CDE weren't anal and e< pedantic about the format.  I can open files in the [.DT...]0 directories and then save them out.  CDE whines. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            cJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:22:42 +0000c( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>@ Subject: IP over Decnet Q, was Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day) Message-ID: <3C077A12.608F0465@127.0.0.1>    Dirk Munk wrote: e > Bob Ceculski wrote:w  = > > decnet phase V over IP is a nightmare to setup and manage  >  > Huh ??????  H He's talkin' TCPWARE. I prefer Multinet but that's another story.... But I have a question....    > > ... TcpwaresP > > decnet phase IV over IP and it is bullet proof and alot easier to manage ...L > > it's like having a class B network over the internet ... also unlike theP > > pwip drivers decnet OSI and multinet use, tcpware phase IV over IP is "true"H > > decnet phase IV ... and decnet copies are bulletproof unlike ftp ...  B Does the IP [any flavour] connection benefit from Decnet security?  F Telnet (e.g.) to some place, and your password goes plaintext (without
 kerberos).  @ Is this plaintext protected by using tunelling / IP over Decnet?   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 10:35:39 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Re: IP over Decnet Q, was Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111301035.51214e43@posting.google.com>w  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3C077A12.608F0465@127.0.0.1>...  > Dirk Munk wrote: y > > Bob Ceculski wrote:e >  a? > > > decnet phase V over IP is a nightmare to setup and manage- > >  > > Huh ?????? > J > He's talkin' TCPWARE. I prefer Multinet but that's another story.... But > I have a question....V >  > > > ... TcpwaresR > > > decnet phase IV over IP and it is bullet proof and alot easier to manage ...N > > > it's like having a class B network over the internet ... also unlike theR > > > pwip drivers decnet OSI and multinet use, tcpware phase IV over IP is "true"J > > > decnet phase IV ... and decnet copies are bulletproof unlike ftp ... > D > Does the IP [any flavour] connection benefit from Decnet security? > H > Telnet (e.g.) to some place, and your password goes plaintext (without > kerberos). > B > Is this plaintext protected by using tunelling / IP over Decnet?  P we are talking decnet over IP here ... telnet without ssh is not a good idea ...L w/decnet over IP all decnet node security is available ... combine that withJ the layering under tcp and a firewall and it is almost encryption like ...J pretty hard to break according to Process softwares Tcpware people ... andL I guarantee Tcpware based on the vms kernel is faster than multinet which isM unix kernel based, and we proved it in web testing ... Tcpware has a more vmsj feel also, not unix (gag!) ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:28:58 +010001 From: Enrico Badella <enrico.badella@softstar.it>r3 Subject: Re: Just a reminder for tomorrow's webcastl+ Message-ID: <3C07434A.CAF5147F@softstar.it>m  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > j > In article <CCvN7.2119$RL6.63271@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:L > >Just so you know over 400 people have signed up for this.  If you want toH > >attend you need to register.  I would not waste much time registering
 > >either. > >' > >Warm Regards, > >e > >Sue > / > Well, I failed the browser check.  Surprised?-  F I managed to register only using m$ crapware... sigh... not a go start   e.  H ========================================================================H Enrico Badella                       email:   enrico.badella@softstar.itA Soft*Star srl                                 eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.itiH InterNetworking Specialists          tel:     +39-011-746092            < Via Camburzano 9                     fax:     +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy   K   Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,h4   manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manualsJ ==========================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:44:21 -0500d- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>s$ Subject: Layered Product Strangeness+ Message-ID: <sc077f31.025@AAASMTA.aaas.org>-  H After the "Is it DEC C or is it Me?" question, I decided to update the = compiler we're using.i  
 $ cc /version,& DEC C V5.7-004 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1  L That came from the 7.1 Layered Product kit, since I couldn't find my 7.2-1 =L layered product kit. I also figured while I was at it, I'd update COBOL on =0 this system, which also came from the 7.1LP set.  K Since I couldn't find my LP cds for 7.2-1, I called our VAR and ordered a =h= new set. And what did I get? A complete 7.3 media set. Swell.a  J The 7.1 LP set is like 11 cds, but 7.3 only came with 2. I checked those =F two, and all there are only about 8 things on them (DECDFS, DECAMDS, = DWMOTIF, DECRAM, PATHWORKS).=20   G So I found I had a complete 7.2-1 media kit I'd never opened (duh). I =wH cracked it open, and it had a LP cd. I checked the docs in it, and the =D only think on the list remotely compiler related is DEC C/C++ XPG4 =
 Libraries.  L Where are all the compilers? Where are the rest of the layered products?=20=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:32:09 +0100 - From: Serge ZANGHERI <serge.zangheri@sema.fr>p Subject: Re: LNC02 cont.' Message-ID: <3C0735F8.2D4F3E2D@sema.fr>   " well, ok I did it with time sorry.g Actually, all the configuration are in Switzerland, I really don t know how it is connected physically.f] This is the first time I work with DCPS and LNC02 and we are connected over there with modem.g; It s not so easy to check rapiddly and efficiently... sorryu@ But, with the last answer of paul I think I know where I am now. Thanx to all of you. Serge   ) "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" a crit :'  p > In article <291120011055404468%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> writes:9 > >In article <3C0643AC.D34BC4A5@sema.fr>, Serge ZANGHERI " > ><serge.zangheri@sema.fr> wrote: > >{...snip...}sI > >What is the connection type you are using to this printer?  It must beoH > >either AppleTalk or serial, as IP connections to this type of printer& > >were not supported until DCPS V1.4. > H > I asked this guy to explain this after his first posting.  Unless I'veG > missed the posting, I do not believe he has compied with the request.e >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  >nK >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fieryMK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesa   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:34:09 +0100S- From: Serge ZANGHERI <serge.zangheri@sema.fr>l Subject: Re: LNC02 cont.' Message-ID: <3C073671.18AB63EE@sema.fr>g  / Thanks for all of that, I forward to my client.  Thank you very much really.o Sergem   Paul Anderson a crit :l  8 > In article <3C06667A.2F07AF1E@sema.fr>, Serge ZANGHERI! > <serge.zangheri@sema.fr> wrote:e >lA > > I always did print /que=lnc02 login.com     (never a PS file)  >uI > By the time your LOGIN.COM gets to the printer, it's PostScript becauseo( > the DCPS ANSI translator converted it. >mQ > > The DCPS$startup P5 parameter : /default=nofeed or feed.  (chapter 3.5 in the 8 > > MGUIDE). I really don t know if i have to change it. >-+ > I've never had to fiddle with this value.  >mM > > I already check with this contact at compaq : the lnc02 system release isyI > > 1.1.1 rev.:3.11, the  version : 2011.26 rev:.2, the test build : 2.1.> > E > You are running the latest printer code.  Look for the network code.C > version.  The latest two versions are 5.23 and 5.49 (test build).l >g= > > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE DCPS$PURGE_TIME "0 hh:mm:ss.00"e >wD > This is a possible performance issue and appears unrelated to your
 > problem. >e4 > > When communications problems arise with a serial6 > > or raw TCP/IP interconnect, the symbiont will keep6 > > listening for up to 4 minutes before disconnecting7 > > from the printer. Therefore, under some conditions,s7 > > the device is not released immediately after a STOPe# > > /QUEUE/RESET command is issued.a > >t! > > Can I decrease these values ?  > I > I am intimately familiar with this timeout due to recent work I've beenrF > doing.  This is hardcoded and, incidentally, will be lowered in DCPS > V2.1.r > E > This would not affect your situation unless you were issuing a STOP ' > /QUEUE /RESET command after each job.a >m > Paul >A > -- >  Paul Anderson >   OpenVMS Engineeringo >   Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:21:02 -0800y* From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com>* Subject: Re: logical names novice question) Message-ID: <3C07BFFE.B80F3533@yahoo.com>|   Dave Greenwood wrote:   N > In a previous article, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:3 > > On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 04:40:09 GMT, Tim Llewellyn * > > <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: > >d9 > > >Oh dear you reminded me of PLOT10 and Tek 4010's :-)A > >BJ > > All those lovely arithmetic IF and computed GOTO statements.  At leastD > > it was compact, efficient, and worked !  And the source code was > > available. >eI > Hey - I've still got (a few) folks who still use PLOT10 on VMS and evene' > Unix (we did a port).  Scary, really.e >I > Dave > --------------; > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVtJ > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself  O I confess, in 1981 when I had a Tek 4016 (Big storage tube) in my office at ther oil M company I thought it was just the best.  Talk about advanced technology, wow!C9 Ran PLOT10 on the CDC6400 as well as the 11/780.  Sigh...-   Jim-   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 07:50:08 -0800) From: gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin)mT Subject: Re: looking for HSC50, RA81, star coupler, CIPCA, various manuals &  prints= Message-ID: <4f886957.0111300750.3953a421@posting.google.com>A  ` Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> wrote in message news:<3C07461B.61C9C5B@peoplepc.com>... > Eric Smith wrote:E > > I > > I'm looking for HSC50s, RA81s, star couplers, and the CIPCA CI-to-PCItK > > host adapter or CMD CPC-6610.  Anyone have some available?  Preferrably= > > on the US west coast.  >  > ( > How about a dumpster in the mid west ?   Eric --o  4 There is a lot of VAX Hardware documentation out on.   http://vax.sevensages.orga  A I may have a HSC50 manual, the "cheat sheet" card and maybe, just = maybe an RA81 manual in the pile.  Send me a private email toAF gmm@cottageland.spam_nyet.net.  adjusting for the no spam qualifier of course.,    A PS Jack "PeoplePC" Patteeuw has your employer finally given up on3B their VMS systems?  Did you do some dumpster diving?  Is that 7000D heating your basement? I got 3 of my ex-employers dumpster bombs andF two of Jim's.  Now most of it is parts supporting a VAXstation 4000-90 and an Alpha XL300.t  	   -- Gary)   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 10:55:43 -08003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>,T Subject: Re: looking for HSC50, RA81, star coupler, CIPCA, various manuals &  prints0 Message-ID: <qhzo54qea8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  / Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> writes:m( > How about a dumpster in the mid west ?  C I doubt I can get to said dumpster before it's emptied.  Perhaps if97 someone were to take the equipment out of the dumpster?.  4   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 03:40:59 -0500 - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> Y Subject: Re: looking for HSC50, RA81, star coupler, CIPCA, various manuals & prints printf+ Message-ID: <3C07461B.61C9C5B@peoplepc.com>w   Eric Smith wrote:  > G > I'm looking for HSC50s, RA81s, star couplers, and the CIPCA CI-to-PCI I > host adapter or CMD CPC-6610.  Anyone have some available?  Preferrablyi > on the US west coast.e    & How about a dumpster in the mid west ?   -- x  
 Jack Patteeuws   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:17:52 +0000t. From: Roger Barnett <roger@natron.demon.co.uk>? Subject: Re: New product allows VMS to become part of a PC Lan!l1 Message-ID: <wZkaLLAA5tB8Ew2A@natron.demon.co.uk>n  ? In article <LKB0LPX64wO1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehleru" <koehler@encompasserve.org> writes? >In article <d7791aa1.0111271509.4f1bf490@posting.google.com>, -+ >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:e >rF >> Just ran across this amazing product as we were looking to make ourH >> Alpha VMS system part of our local PC Lan and ran across this amazing >> product ...H >> they also have a product that allows VMS pc disk access ... amazing!  >gI >   Nothing like being 15 years behind the times, and 10 years behind thes
 >   freeware.     F I don't think these are especially new products from Vector Networks -% in general they're pretty smart guys.h     [ senior_moment F     when I first met their founders they were developing Motorola 6809C     based systems using cross development from a PDP-11/23 running t     RSX-11M in the back bedrooms /senior_moment ]    
 Roger Barnette   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 10:39:53 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Re: New product allows VMS to become part of a PC Lan!p= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111301039.64c289cc@posting.google.com>g  g Roger Barnett <roger@natron.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<wZkaLLAA5tB8Ew2A@natron.demon.co.uk>...uA > In article <LKB0LPX64wO1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler $ > <koehler@encompasserve.org> writesA > >In article <d7791aa1.0111271509.4f1bf490@posting.google.com>, n- > >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:2 > >LH > >> Just ran across this amazing product as we were looking to make ourJ > >> Alpha VMS system part of our local PC Lan and ran across this amazing > >> product ...J > >> they also have a product that allows VMS pc disk access ... amazing!  > >-K > >   Nothing like being 15 years behind the times, and 10 years behind the  > >   freeware.  >  > H > I don't think these are especially new products from Vector Networks -' > in general they're pretty smart guys.r >  >  > [ senior_moment>H >     when I first met their founders they were developing Motorola 6809E >     based systems using cross development from a PDP-11/23 running o! >     RSX-11M in the back bedroomt > /senior_moment ] >  >  > Roger Barnetto  L actually, they are not new, as they said they had been around since '94, butK besides DEC and Q always spouting pathworks, this is the first I have heardc% of it, and I think it is really neat!D   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 07:55:15 -0800/ From: jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com (jeremy lakey)e' Subject: Re: new to VMS cxx question...n= Message-ID: <70a82a12.0111300755.74d4eaeb@posting.google.com>e    Thanks for the quick reply Craig  % Wow, UNIX paths on VMS, crazy stuff..r7 ok, that works for includes in the SRC directory, but..e  & I've got includes that look like this %    #include <dom/DOM_DOMDocument.hpp>-   dom is a subdirectory of SRC  9 and it's still not locating them in the subdirectories...n any thoughts here?     "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-3FD246.16375629112001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>...H > Rather surprisingly, a VMS filespec does not appear to be a supported # > value for the /include qualifier:n >  > $ help cxx/include >  > CXX  > ( >   /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY=(pathname [,...]) > @ >      /NOINCLUDE_DIRECTORY               D=/NOINCLUDE_DIRECTORY > F >      Provides an additional level of search for user-defined includeG >      files.  Each pathname argument can be either a logical name or aa6 >      legal UNIX-style directory, in a quoted string. > <snip> > 7 > So, it looks like you either need to define a logical  > = > $ define myincdir $1$DGA41:[EBUS.XML.XERCES-C-SRC1_3_0.SRC]r > $ cxx/include=myincdir >  > or use UNIX filespec syntaxd > 9 > $ cxx/include="$1$DGA41/EBUS/XML/XERCES-C-SRC1_3_0/SRC"i > H > Note that it is not customary (and in some cases just wrong) to refer C > to a disk by its physical device name.  There may be one or more 4) > logical names that would be preferable.. >  > ? > In article <70a82a12.0111290855.2f59ef57@posting.google.com>, 3 >  jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com (jeremy lakey) wrote:n > < > > I've got the compaq xml libraries loaded...   they're at > > $1$dga41:[ebus.xml]d > > * > > how do i include that path as headers? > > D > > cxx /include_directory=$1$DGA41:[EBUS.XML.XERCES-C-SRC1_3_0.SRC] > > testxml.cppr > > A > > does not work... i've tried to define it as a system include:  > > $show logical cxx*I > >    "CXX$SYSTEM_INCLUDE" = "$1$DGA41:[EBUS.XML.XERCES-C-SRC1_3_0.SRC]"d > > J > > that doesn't work..  i'm new to cxx and vms (as in just this week new)G > > but i've read all the documentation at www.openvms.compaq.com i cane? > > find and other than using /include_directory i'm still lostn > > * > > any help would be greatly appreciated. > > 
 > > Thanks > >  > > Jeremy Lakey > > Software Architect > > NDC Health   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:53:50 -0000 2 From: seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel)' Subject: Re: new to VMS cxx question...@; Message-ID: <slrna0fedd.127.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>,  O On 30 Nov 2001 07:55:15 -0800, jeremy lakey <jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com> wrote:o! >Thanks for the quick reply Craign >a& >Wow, UNIX paths on VMS, crazy stuff..8 >ok, that works for includes in the SRC directory, but.. >o' >I've got includes that look like this a& >   #include <dom/DOM_DOMDocument.hpp> >n >dom is a subdirectory of SRC  >e: >and it's still not locating them in the subdirectories... >any thoughts here?a >eF I ran into the same problem.  I found that relative paths in the /inc 0 clause don't work.  The path must be absolute.    H What worked for me was to make a VMS logical, for example, "home" which J pointed to a higher level in the directory tree, then home can be used as 5 if it were a root level directory name.  For example,r  7 cxx /inc=("/home/include","/home/apps/include") app.cppr  K then the includes as <dom/...> will work against the paths in the /inc justaB as you would expect.  DOM_DOMDocument.hpp would be found either as) /home/include/dom/DOM_DOMDocument.hpp or I* /home/apps/include/dom/DOM_DOMDocument.hppJ I also found that I sometimes had to put the names in quotes as shown, but I don't know why.t  O The key is that the top level directory name /home can be a VMS logical name.  iG (I am assuming your system is 7.x, I don't know about earlier systems.)o   HTH    --  D --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 220D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:14:00 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>:. Subject: Re: NT to Solaris Migration Promotion, Message-ID: <3C07B045.7F781E10@videotron.ca>   Simon Clubley wrote:B > That's too optimistic. :-) To tie this to another c.o.v. thread: > M > General VMS marketing is as likely as an insurance company agreeing to selle > life insurance to Bin Laden.  M Considering how good Ossama has been at evading the vast armies, I'd say thatoK this is still too optmistic. Besides, if you insure him for 20 million, you=L can always tell Powel his location and get $25 million from the USA govt, so$ you end up gaining $5 million bucks.  G General VMS marketing is as likely as Bill Gates admitting his sins andc! dumping Windows in favour of VMS.a   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Nov 2001 16:50:34 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)7. Subject: Re: NT to Solaris Migration Promotion' Message-ID: <9u8dcq$qtg$2@joe.rice.edu>r  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: :cI : General VMS marketing is as likely as Bill Gates admitting his sins and=# : dumping Windows in favour of VMS.- :-G He admitted that MS software crashes too much and is too hard to use...   M    http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/2001-11-12-comdex-gates.htm.  =    http://money.cnn.com/2001/11/12/technology/gates_software/e9    Gates admits software crashes too much - Nov. 12, 2001       Microsoft focuses on basics"    November 12, 2001: 7:44 a.m. ETF    Bill Gates admits software crashes too much and is too hard to use.  H   "NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Bill Gates issued a confession to the computerH    world this weekend, saying Microsoft's software crashes too often and>    is too hard to use, according to a published report Monday.  E    The founder, chairman, and chief software architect of the world'siH    largest maker of personal computer software said he has been focusingB    on the issue of reliability for the last three months and he isI    working on a company-wide memo to reinforce this concept, according to 
    USA Today.   G    "There are areas where Microsoft needs to improve," Gates was quoted=F    as saying in an interview with the newspaper. "We're doing a little    bit of a mea culpa on this."o  B    In addition to focusing on reliability, Gates said the computerG    industry will turn to so-called computer tablets, devices that are agH    cross between a laptop and a personal digital assistant (PDA). At hisF    annual speech to the Comdex computer trade show in Las Vegas, GatesG    unveiled tablet versions from Compaq Computer, Toshiba, Fujitsu, and     Acer..."e   but he also mislead Nokia...  '    http://www.msnbc.com/news/664454.aspe    Microsoft's isle of denialm  7    Antitrust settlement changes nothing but perspectiveo
    OPINION    By Brock N. Meeks    MSNBC  I   "WASHINGTON, Nov. 28 -- A little noticed confidential e-mail written byr?    Bill Gates and introduced, almost as an afterthought, by the.G    government during the waning hours of its antitrust case against the:B    company, shows that the bruising trial had little effect on theD    Microsoft's penchant for double-dealing and adherence to softwareF    skullduggery to attain competitive advantage. And it's just a smallG    example of why the current settlement offer does nothing to actuallyrE    hold Microsoft accountable for having been found guilty of being af    predatory monopoly.      [ snip ]e  B           Gates then admits he purposefully mislead -- a less kindH    observer would say "lied" -- to Ollila about Microsoft's research andB    development advances, in hopes of persuading Nokia to work with    Microsoft and not others..."e     --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:56:17 -0500-' From: John Hook <jhook@regenstrief.org> 1 Subject: Re: Oracle 8i OCI problem with VAX BASICr/ Message-ID: <3C0773E1.9B9EADFB@regenstrief.org>7   Jim,   Thanks for your quick reply.  D As a follow up, I was able to at least get my little test program toF work. It looks like something changed in the call to ORLON. By passing5 the string length BY VALUE the call succeeds on 8.1.7   ) This line works on 7.3 but fails on 8.1.7 G CALL ORLON(LDA(1) BY REF, HDA(1), UNAME BY REF, LEN(UNAME), PWD BY REF,r LEN(PWD), 0)  ) This line works on 8.1.7 but fails on 7.3eH CALL ORLON(LDA(1) BY REF, HDA(1), UNAME BY REF, LEN(UNAME) BY VALUE, PWD BY REF, LEN(PWD) BY VALUE, 0)I  
 Thanks again,  John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:34:51 +0100 = From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> Y Subject: PDP and envionment (Was : Gartner and IDC say HP will effectively kill DLT) DLT)1) Message-ID: <3C07990B.59D97091@dummy.com>r  + Regarding PDP's and environment problems...   = I once had a PDP 11/84 in a computer room with windows to the > outside. During one winter storm, one of the windows was blown? open during the night. An operatior noticed this in the morningo9 and closed the window. No problems so far with the PDP...w  < Now, when the window was open, the temp in the computer room7 got below 0 deg C (freezing point) and the water based i< heating equipment got frozen (and of course sprung leak, but3 since it was froozen nothing happend at that time).O  ; OK, so 15 mins later, when the heater thaw out, the heatinga5 equipment started to leak hot water, and the computer 9 room turned into a Finish steam sauna. The whole mess wasi@ discovered when the water started pouring down the stair-well...  > When I got into the computer room, I could hardly see anything? through all the steam. The hot water (aprox 60 deg C) sprinkledAD the roof and dripped down all over the PDP rack and the RL02 drives.  D In fact, the users didn't know anything until I hitted the emergency7 stop button and broke the power to the computer room....   Jan-Erik Sderholm.c       Bill Gunshannon wrote: > D > PS.  Just a a matter of curiosity, all my PDP and VAX systems withD > RA disks and Fuji Eagles rode it out just fine. Most of the modern > SCSI and IDE disk cooked.4 >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 03:48:12 -0800& From: bes@pbsbank.ch (Bernard Straehl)1 Subject: Re: Q: How to check if a file is opened? = Message-ID: <76f61726.0111300348.67b4f834@posting.google.com>   _ WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message news:<0033000042947307000002L072*@MHS>...a$ > Here's an example of how I did it. > 7 > I wanted it to *not* be open, so I used .nes. to makei > that option come up first. > " > It's kinda kludgy, but it works. > A > $ show dev/files/nosystem/out=xtmp.txt disk that the file is on-< > $ search/nooutput xtmp.txt filename you want to know about  > $ file search status = $status, > $ if file search status .nes. "%X00000001" > $ then > ; >   [then filename you want to know about doesn't appear in-; >    the search, which means that the file *isn't* opened.]k >  > $ else >  >   [file is open] > 	 > $ endifn >  > $ delete/nolog xtmp.txt;*m >  > Hope this helps, >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt, > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:53 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET3 > Subject: RE: Q: How to check if a file is opened?t >  >  > Dmitry Bessonov wrote: > > I > > A file is opened and can be seen in SHOW DEVICE/FILES output. Is ther" >  eI > > a way to determine in DCL command procedure, if the file is opened onl >   2 > > this node or not? I thought it can be done via > A > It the file is opened using DCL, an F$TRNLNM("logical-name") ise > non-blank. >  > e.g. > - > $ OPEN/READ datafile disk:[dir]filename.extv > ..6 > $ IF F$TRNLNM("datafile").NES."" THEN CLOSE datafile > I > Perhaps if your application also uses a logical name, you can translate  > 6 > that logical for that processes' logical name table?  C Why do you not use the PIPE cmd (depends on VMS version of course)?  bye Bernardr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:25:18 +0100r. From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de>  Subject: RAM for VAXstation 3100, Message-ID: <3C0788BE.F3B3B1D0@pcde.inka.de>   Hi,   9 will RAM taken out of a VAXstation 3100/30 work in a /38? ; I heard different answers. Does anybody here know for sure?    TIA  Dennis   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 04:32:08 -0500-- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>r+ Subject: Re: RECALL does not work (& XDMCP) , Message-ID: <3C075218.376308C7@peoplepc.com>   "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > / > On 29 Nov 2001, at 19:35, Hoff Hoffman wrote:cL > >   This is documented and intentional behaviour.  RECALL and SET HOST andL > >   a few other DCL commands are intended (only) for interactive use only. > 9 > Which is why XDMCP logins should be set as INTERACTIVE?b   No !  L The XDMCP "non-interactive" login only effects the SYSUAF fields that record4 the last interactive and non-interactive login time.  H Once a login via XDMCP is completed, all DECterms show up as INTERACTIVE5 processes and RECALL and SET HOST work "as expected".B   -- a  
 Jack Patteeuwn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:29:56 -0500l; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>9= Subject: Re: Time for the Encompass US Inc CHAD-FREE Electionu$ Message-ID: <3c07b407$1@news.si.com>  > >Does this mean that Encompas will not be mailing out ballots?  K No , it doesn't.  I received mine in the mail yesterday, filled it out, and> faxed it back. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 30 Nov 01 13:12:14 +100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)S Subject: RE: TLZ09* Message-ID: <9u7t30$2a6q$1@gwdu67.gwdg.de>  ; In Article <howard-DCC8E8.22475529112001@enews.newsguy.com>3) Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes:l/ >What are the features of this 4mm tape device?m   It's a DDS2 drive:  O Magtape MPIW03$MKA500:, device type DEC TLZ09, is online, allocated, deallocategO     on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-oriented device,>L     served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is enabled, controllerG     supports compaction (compaction enabled), device supports fastskip.f  O     Density                     DDS2    Format                        Normal-11        --  I This message does not represent the policies of the Max-Planck-Institute.sB Joseph "Sepp" Huber, MPI Physik, http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:39:08 GMT.  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>N Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))8 Message-ID: <iv9f0u46qm7gsf7c0gqltek7eaqhf7h1jn@4ax.com>  : On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:25:45 +0100, zessin@decus.de wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:eI >> I would also add that, although I have no personal experience in HP-UXtE >> matters, I have heard that HP-UX is fairly difficult/tricky to add3 >> drivers for.  >>E >> There's something in there as a way of explanation for the lack of ? >> HP-UX SecurePath drivers for the StorageWorks SAN offerings.i >>I >> I have no personal knowledge of any of this, only a rumor I heard onceh >> upon a time., >dH >I haven't worked with HP-UX either, but Compaq has SecurePath Version 3: >for it _now_ and the list of features doesn't look bad...C >    http://www.compaq.com/products/sanworks/secure-path/hp-ux.html   E Right, it just took quite a bit longer than any other platform... andkA I believe there was a reason for that time-lag that goes into ther technical area of the OS.d  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqt- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:20:03 -0800d& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>H Subject: Utility to deal with UCX Mail Server Stopping on Junk Email bug/ Message-ID: <u0fjcd9vp2tn52@corp.supernews.com>r  C Here's a utility I wrote to deal with the problem that the UCX MailtF server has with large junk emails that come in without line breaks andA stop the mail queues.  It only works with a single set of queues.eD It submits itself to batch and checks every 15 minutes for a problemA and if it finds one, deletes the top job in the queue, copies therI email to a temp directory for later perusal, emials you, and then deletesi: those files in the UCX mail directory.  You can get it at:  9     http://www.rdperf.com/vms_stuff/check_mail_queues.com   F You configure a few symbols at the top that are specific to your site.     Rick Cadruvi...x   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:47:18 GMTd- From: michael.greenNOSP@Mvideotron.ca (MikeG) 3 Subject: Re: V7.2-2 in Canada? Release date in USA?j0 Message-ID: <3be2eaa3.175634889@news.compaq.com>   Peter,D the discrepancy may have to do with the fact that Terry probably has> his OpenVMS on MDDS (media & docs) service which shipped this A version 7.2-2 on September 30th, and you may receive your updatesnD through Consolidated Distribution CD services which having a longer " cycle does not ship till Nov 19th.? Both the dates mentioned above are U.S. ship dates, so tack on cE 2 weeks for the Canadian version and you have a likely explaination.     Mike Green (eh!)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:45:19 -0500  From: edfyb@aol.comEY Subject: whats up?                                                                        0 Message-ID: <E169m6Z-0003U1-00@7serv.rsecur.com>  ? Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by 9  (edfyb@aol.com) on Friday, November 30, 2001 at 06:45:19nK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------   u: Hey, what's up, yall?  I found a site and if you want to meet people and talk to people on webcam, you should check this out.  They're now giving members totally free memberships!    You don't even need your own webcam.  You can watch live videos of family, friends, or anybody!  What is there to lose?<br><a href="http://lllil.com/livewebcam">http://lllil.com/livewebcamk <br><br><br><br></a>To take yourself off my mailing list <a href="http://lllil.com/list-off>click here</a>.<br><br><br>521905482  K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------n   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Nov 2001 14:25:51 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t= Subject: Re: why not a communityDeveloped[tm] version of VMS?v, Message-ID: <9u84tf$2cem$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <00A05C76.AFA9766C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,O  winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:o |>O |>                       It's just that Linux got a charismatic personality outpP |> in front and got the press.  It's not that it's better, it's that it's known. |> s  G Yeah, can you imagine where VMS would be today if it had half the pressc" and hype that Linux has received??   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 04:23:15 -0500u- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>- Subject: Re: xdmcp, Message-ID: <3C075003.12716A68@peoplepc.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:r > J >   Feeling rather busy and rather jaded today, maybe no one has explainedL >   to the children why (not) showing up as "interactive" is such a criticalM >   problem?  No offense, but -- based solely on what was posted here -- this-J >   does look like a fairly minor bug in the grand scheme...  If this is aI >   critical problem, then I'm surprised to see the discussions here in a I >   newsgroup and not via the customer support center and then via one of>K >   the folks that formally tracks problem reports and problem resolutions.   M In the "Grand Scheme of Things (in VMS)" this **IS** a minor bug.  However ataL our site, where we expire accounts annually, the last interactive login timeH delta to the expiration date is used to trigger a warning message of theK impending doom !  Also, (if I remember correctly) I believe that XDM loginseN were actually allowed after the expiration date.  Geting COMPAQ to acknowledgeH that this is a real bug and will be "fixed in a [not too distant] future release" is the issue.    G > :Not a bug, but would sure be nice if we could put up a better splashvA > :screen than "Username: Password:" with no graphic background !j > I >   Splash screens and background graphics tend to get me and a few othereK >   folks into trouble.  (I'll just leave it at that. :-)  It might be nicekI >   to add an enhancement that permits a user to customize the display if   >   one does not already exist,   L And that is just the point.  The folks in VMS who implemented XDMCP went 1/2M way (well actually about 1/10).  This functionality is well documented in theoH man pages of xdm on Tru64 under the section titled "MOTIF AUTHENTICATIONN WIDGET".  It also appears that many other resources that are typically definedK in /usr/var/X11/xdm/Xresources and used by /usr/shlib/X11/libXdmDecGreet.sodD are not implemented such as dxlogin.bitmapFile, dxlogin.greeting and dxlogin.greeting2.  H dtgreet does the same task in the CDE world, but is not well documented.  M All I really would like is the "standard" login screen that is displayed on auK VMS workstation, displayed on the remote X display server.  The monochrome,rK logo-less display looks very unprofessional, and just adds to the fire thatrC "VMS is dead", which all know ain't true (last time I checked ;) ).n     -- m  
 Jack Patteeuwi   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2001 13:18:38 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)w% Subject: Re: XPDF 0.93 - VMS versionse! Message-ID: <gbrSiB+9SUT2@gaelic>   % In article <3c03ea9d$1@news.si.com>, t= "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:c) >>http://decwarch.free.fr/pspdf.html#XPDFo > L > The link ftp://ftp2.cnam.fr/decwindows/xpdf-093-vaxbin.zip doesn't seem to > work, though.c   It works actually.   PatrickG --O ===============================================================================eN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.666 ************************