1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 04 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 552       Contents: Re: Alternate vendor memory. Re: Alternate vendor memory.? Attunity Pledges Support For Compaq's Enterprise Server Roadmap  Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?  Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit? E Re: Compaq revenue goes down $1 Billion, warns of loss in 3rd Quarter  DECnet 7.3 with VMS 7.2 on VAX" Re: DECnet 7.3 with VMS 7.2 on VAX- Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? 6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)6 Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)
 Free VAX 3400 : How to mount an ISO9660 CD under OpenVMS v1.5-1H1 (Alpha)?> Re: How to mount an ISO9660 CD under OpenVMS v1.5-1H1 (Alpha)?K Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER! K Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER! K Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER! K Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER! = Re: IBM goes after Sun ? (was Sun goes after Alpha user base) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?) C Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)   Re: Letter from Michael Cappelas  Re: Letter from Michael Cappelas  Re: Letter from Michael Cappelas, Re: Locate Filename containing logical block, Re: Locate Filename containing logical block' Re: Mac OS X 10.1 sees PATHWORKS shares  Re: Memo:  Quota Setting Re: Memo:  Quota Setting Re: Memo:  Quota Setting* Re: Need help with $QIO calls in C program* Re: Need help with $QIO calls in C program0 No more OpenVMS products from Vector  Networks ? Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?   OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001$ Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001$ Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001$ Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001$ Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001$ Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001 Re: Pathworks on Win2000 Re: Pathworks on Win2000 Re: Pathworks on Win2000 Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS??  Re: PGP for OpenVMS?? . Re: Problem with vms712_update-v0300 download.. Re: Problem with vms712_update-v0300 download." Re: Public domain VMS clustering ? Re: Question on VMS Virus  RE: Ram Disk for VMS?   Re: Reset error account on Alpha  RE: Reset error account on Alpha  Re: Reset error account on Alpha? Re: Sales Office Appearances (was: Compaq revenue goes down...) " Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base UCX FTP over WIN2k VPN problems  Re: VAX 7000's Re: VAX 7000's RE: VAX disaster tolerance RE: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance$ VMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 7.3.3 and 7.3.4 vms files on floppy  Re: vms files on floppy  RE: vms files on floppy  Re: vms files on floppy 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 07:51:55 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>% Subject: Re: Alternate vendor memory. ' Message-ID: <GKo8IJ.6sD@spcuna.spc.edu>     Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:= > The problem is, there is no such thing as "Kingston memory" A > Kingston buys memory from several sources, and sticks their own  > brandname & partnumber on it.   F   So? DEC has always done the same thing - the last letter (the "Y" inI "M####-XY" indicated what memory manufacturer's chips were on the board). G In fact, they charged more for out-of-warranty repair on some versions, F simply because later on they found that manufacturer's chips were less	 reliable.   J > So a certain Kingston partnumber may contain memory modules from brand X) > one day, and from brand Y the next day.   H   Now you're being a little fast and loose with the term "module". ThereJ are 3 components in a ready-for-sale SIMM - the memory chips, the PC boardG they are mounted on, and the assembly/testing/warranty (well, actually  H these days there are things like the SPD on there, but that isn't really
 relevant).  H   At one end you have all of these being produced by one company (a chipF manufacturer). Generally you only see those parts for the really high-F volume stuff. Memory for DEC widgets doesn't even show up on the radarI screen of those manufacturers. By the way, this is the reason you see odd H things like Cisco Catalyst 6500 switches using notebook PC memory - it's8 so Cisco can get chip-manufacturer-built memory modules.  I   Next you have companies like Kingston and Smart Modular, who buy memory E chips in bulk from selected manufacturers and place those parts on PC F boards they designed and tested. At the bottom, you have companies whoD buy whatever memory chips they can get (often from manufaturers withH lesser reputations for quality, or parts rejected by the other SIMM man-E ufacturers) and put them on PC boards they buy elsewhere, either as a ; generic item or as an overrun from some other manufacturer.   H   All three of these could have quality ranging from excellent to awful.J The more a manufacturer has control over the whole process, the better andI more consistent the end result is likely to be. But there isn't much dif- < frence between a high-end assembler and a chip manufacturer.  G > Go for modules from a 'real' manufacturer, like Camintonn or Dataram, J > these companies were even supported by Compaq (once). Camintonn has a UK	 > office.   H   Sorry to disappoint you, but those folks (and they are good folks) areI just assemblers of other manufacturers' memory chips, just like Kingston. E They concentrate more on "niche" markets (like DEC stuff) than places F like Kingston, but that isn't relevant to whether they make the memory
 chips or not.   4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:16:34 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: Alternate vendor memory. ' Message-ID: <3BBC9972.A18E4013@home.nl>    Terry Kennedy wrote:  " > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:? > > The problem is, there is no such thing as "Kingston memory" C > > Kingston buys memory from several sources, and sticks their own ! > > brandname & partnumber on it.  > H >   So? DEC has always done the same thing - the last letter (the "Y" inK > "M####-XY" indicated what memory manufacturer's chips were on the board). I > In fact, they charged more for out-of-warranty repair on some versions, H > simply because later on they found that manufacturer's chips were less > reliable.   M You're absolutely right, but at least it was visible from the partnumber that M different brand of chips were used, or different speed sometimes (60 ns or 70  ns).   >  > L > > So a certain Kingston partnumber may contain memory modules from brand X+ > > one day, and from brand Y the next day.  > J >   Now you're being a little fast and loose with the term "module". ThereL > are 3 components in a ready-for-sale SIMM - the memory chips, the PC boardH > they are mounted on, and the assembly/testing/warranty (well, actuallyJ > these days there are things like the SPD on there, but that isn't really > relevant).  K That is very relevant, because many memory (=DIMM) manufacturers don't fill L their SPD with acurate information. In that case a system may not be able toN use the right settings for its memory access.  Some companies even use another companies manufucturer code.     >  > J >   At one end you have all of these being produced by one company (a chipH > manufacturer). Generally you only see those parts for the really high-H > volume stuff. Memory for DEC widgets doesn't even show up on the radarK > screen of those manufacturers. By the way, this is the reason you see odd J > things like Cisco Catalyst 6500 switches using notebook PC memory - it's: > so Cisco can get chip-manufacturer-built memory modules. > K >   Next you have companies like Kingston and Smart Modular, who buy memory G > chips in bulk from selected manufacturers and place those parts on PC " > boards they designed and tested.  I No, Kingston may buy complete DIMM's from a manufacturer and sell them as G Kingston. So the same Kingston partnumber may refer to totaly different J modules with hopefully the same characteristics (even if the specs are the same).      ' > At the bottom, you have companies who F > buy whatever memory chips they can get (often from manufaturers withJ > lesser reputations for quality, or parts rejected by the other SIMM man-G > ufacturers) and put them on PC boards they buy elsewhere, either as a = > generic item or as an overrun from some other manufacturer.  > J >   All three of these could have quality ranging from excellent to awful.L > The more a manufacturer has control over the whole process, the better andK > more consistent the end result is likely to be. But there isn't much dif- > > frence between a high-end assembler and a chip manufacturer.  N True, but DIMM modules with the same chips from one company may differ quite a@ lot from a DIMM module with the same chips from another company.   >  > I > > Go for modules from a 'real' manufacturer, like Camintonn or Dataram, L > > these companies were even supported by Compaq (once). Camintonn has a UK > > office.  > J >   Sorry to disappoint you, but those folks (and they are good folks) are7 > just assemblers of other manufacturers' memory chips,   M I know, there are just a dozen (?) or so memory chip manufacturers. I saw IBM F chips on Camintonn modules. On the other hand those chips also come inH qualities, So one manufacturer may use first choice, and another may use second choice chips.     > just like Kingston. G > They concentrate more on "niche" markets (like DEC stuff) than places H > like Kingston, but that isn't relevant to whether they make the memory > chips or not.   L I never claimed these companies make the chips. They make the memory modulesN containing the chips. But again, even if the same chips are used, there may beC a lot of difference between two different brands of memory modules.        >  > 6 >         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com4 >         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:18:22 -04002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>H Subject: Attunity Pledges Support For Compaq's Enterprise Server Roadmap2 Message-ID: <9c_u7.1072$YP.25932@news.cpqcorp.net>  I On September 25, Attunity issued a press release announcing their support H for Compaq's server move to the Itanium(tm) processor family. OpenVMS is3 specifically referenced in the release. Please see:   - http://www.attunity.com/news/pr/20010925a.asp     to view the release.    ------------------------------    Date: 04 Oct 2001 19:59:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?- Message-ID: <87d74362gf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ( peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:  . > In article <3BBABA98.2B4C0D77@videotron.ca>,1 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   C > > This is why I strongly suspect that HP-UX will survive and will & > > just receive new stuff from Tru64.  0 > Including, as Terry implies, the Tru64 kernel?  2 > Tru64 has a very BSD-ish API. What's HP/UX like?  F It is like, ummmm HPUX...  Well, almost like HPUX! It has warts in oddF places. Not odd, out of the way ones, but right where it bites all the7 time! Binning the HP oddities whould be a big PLUS IMO.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 08:03:16 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?3 Message-ID: <NzTsTlJ+H8KC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <9pgh03$mt0@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > 2 > Tru64 has a very BSD-ish API. What's HP/UX like? >   H    HP-UX is SVID on the outside, but it's supposed to have a BSD kernel.*    (Must have given them something to do).   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 08:05:14 -0700 / From: on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) N Subject: Re: Compaq revenue goes down $1 Billion, warns of loss in 3rd Quarter= Message-ID: <b2faac46.0110040705.3cc74aab@posting.google.com>   A There's one reason for this - and that's the manner in which they 6 treat their customers - you do wrong - you get burned.   Rick        e nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote in message news:<nNTNTEeRiygL@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>... / > In article <9pc86s$jti@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,  : >    vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes: > N > >   Compaq is blaming it on a Typhoon affecting shipments and the Sept. 11thH > > attack (3 weeks from Quarter end).  Come on Compaq, how much of this: > > is due to the Alpha murder at the end of last quarter? > L >   None of it, of course. Haven't you heard Compaq say that their customersB > are 100% behind the dumping of this uncompetetive technology ;-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 02:06:03 -0400* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>' Subject: DECnet 7.3 with VMS 7.2 on VAX . Message-ID: <3BBBC40B.13588.D871772@localhost>  @ I upgraded DECnet/OSI from 7.2 to 7.3 on a VAX that has VMS 7.2 < installed.  Now, no matter what I do, DECnet will not start.  F Was this a bad idea?  Can I back up to DECnet 7.2?  Or must I install  VMS 7.3?     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:35:48 +0200 = From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl> + Subject: Re: DECnet 7.3 with VMS 7.2 on VAX 5 Message-ID: <3BBC2D74.9CF611FB@contrastmediagroep.nl>    "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > A > I upgraded DECnet/OSI from 7.2 to 7.3 on a VAX that has VMS 7.2 > > installed.  Now, no matter what I do, DECnet will not start. > G > Was this a bad idea?  Can I back up to DECnet 7.2?  Or must I install 
 > VMS 7.3?  H V7.3 of decnet will not run on VMS V7.2. You should be able to remove it and reinstall 7.2:  C $ product remove decnet_osi ! check this name with 'prod show prod' 9 $ product install decnet_osi/source=where_your_v72_kit_is   H And if you had installed any eco's on V7.2 you need to reinstall them as& well. After this a reboot is required.   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:04:44 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?( Message-ID: <3BBC7A8C.E37E72B@127.0.0.1>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  F > I've had good luck with a VHS eraser that Radio Shack sells (or soldI > about 8 years ago). Not much of a duty cycle, I've not needed it *THAT* 6 > often or for much volume (one or two cart.'s, tops).  E As an aside, even bulk VHS erasers have difficulty erasing the "HiFi" B soundtrack recorded with the video signal. Interestingly, the HiFiD signal is written to the tape, then partly erased by the (following)H video signal, its called, or was called depth recording. The VHS machine0 is designed to pick up this partly erased track.  : While the pictures may be gone, some of the audio remains.   YMMV.a -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 03:49:42 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)n@ Message-ID: <20011004104942.49403.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  8 I've read in a news over the internet that there is a=200 movement to create an "open hardware" like "open operating systems".b/ May be Altera can help in this, developing a=20e/ "programable processor" os somekind of similar.c- i dont know how is the complexity of creating 4 a chip, but I believe it is not so complex nowadays.- Example: Lantronix developed a small chip forS networking devices.S     Regardsp   FC=20     1 --- Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:a1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:S >=20, > > Surely the microprocessors used to drive > microwaves or watchesS3 > > aren't built with 13 micron copper technology ?M > There must be some2 > > FABs around that could still build VAX chips ? > =20H0 > > Also, if IBM has a FAB capable of 13 micron, > couldn't that same FAB3 > > technically build a VAX with a design that only  > required 30 micron > > precision ?a >=203 > One of the sad facts of life is that your digitals > design can fail?6 > on a faster process :( So you need to verify that it > will work?/ > and be able to tweek it if a wheel falls off.s >=20 > --=20p0 > Paul Repacholi                               1 > Crescent Rd.,u0 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                         =20 > Kalamunda.3 >                                              West: > Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.2 > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has > been, always will be.r     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DsL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3De F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazils fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/mon= th. # http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:06:38 +0200 < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance) ( Message-ID: <3BBC42BE.903AB93D@home.com>  1 Why not a 64-bit "Programable Data Processor" :-)?   A fine name could be PDP-64...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.G   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > 7 > I've read in a news over the internet that there is a?2 > movement to create an "open hardware" like "open > operating systems". . > May be Altera can help in this, developing a1 > "programable processor" os somekind of similar. / > i dont know how is the complexity of creatingo6 > a chip, but I believe it is not so complex nowadays./ > Example: Lantronix developed a small chip forA > networking devices.  > 	 > Regardsw >  > FC >u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 08:41:29 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>A? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)r2 Message-ID: <1OYu7.1062$YP.25994@news.cpqcorp.net>  L I think Charron running on Alpha, and later Itanium, is a better choice thanJ trying to FAB a VAX.  And from what I understand, there is a lot more to aI new chip process and it doesn't lend itself to simply trying to print old- designs onto it.    = JF Mezei wrote in message <3BBB6C2B.3AC8CD2B@videotron.ca>...r >Hoff Hoffman wrote:I >>   around) but the semiconductor manufacturing processes that were used L >>   to fabricate the VAX chips such as NVAX+ are themselves no longer used. > F >But if HP were to have a garage sale and I were to buy all of the VAX patents,K >designs etc for $1, couldn't I go to Intel, Motorolla etc and tell them tot' >make me a few thousand customs chips ?# >"L >Surely the microprocessors used to drive microwaves or watches aren't builtG >with 13 micron copper technology ? There must be some FABs around thatu couldr >still build VAX chips ? >rD >Also, if IBM has a FAB capable of 13 micron, couldn't that same FABC >technically build a VAX with a design that only required 30 micron  precision ?  > I >Wouldn't the VAX become incredibly cheap because it wouldn't be built onr theoI >latest and greatest FABs and not cost much more than the small CPU on mye bike >computer ?e   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 06:18:39 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)m@ Message-ID: <20011004131839.26578.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  ' Charon VAX is excessivly expensive !=20r    . I would suggest them to make a partneship with1 VMWare to improve their product and reduce the=20r price...     Regardsn   FC=20i1 --- Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  wrote:6 > I think Charron running on Alpha, and later Itanium, > is a better choice thane3 > trying to FAB a VAX.  And from what I understand,h > there is a lot more to a0 > new chip process and it doesn't lend itself to > simply trying to print old > designs onto it. >=20 >=20 > JF Mezei wrote in messageh% > <3BBB6C2B.3AC8CD2B@videotron.ca>...h > >Hoff Hoffman wrote:2 > >>   around) but the semiconductor manufacturing > processes that were used3 > >>   to fabricate the VAX chips such as NVAX+ aret > themselves no longer used. > > 5 > >But if HP were to have a garage sale and I were tot > buy all of the VAX
 > patents,. > >designs etc for $1, couldn't I go to Intel,  > Motorolla etc and tell them to) > >make me a few thousand customs chips ?  > >h6 > >Surely the microprocessors used to drive microwaves > or watches aren't built 3 > >with 13 micron copper technology ? There must bea > some FABs around thath > couldn > >still build VAX chips ? > > / > >Also, if IBM has a FAB capable of 13 micron,  > couldn't that same FAB2 > >technically build a VAX with a design that only > required 30 micron
 > precision ?i > >u6 > >Wouldn't the VAX become incredibly cheap because it > wouldn't be built on > thee2 > >latest and greatest FABs and not cost much more > than the small CPU on my > bike
 > >computer ?e >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DwL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D- F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dt  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/mon= th.,# http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:27:04 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)n8 Message-ID: <mkoortsh4pah6r4hh07m7v5ahbcvrrgfpp@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 4 Oct 2001 08:41:29 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  M >I think Charron running on Alpha, and later Itanium, is a better choice thanrK >trying to FAB a VAX.  And from what I understand, there is a lot more to anJ >new chip process and it doesn't lend itself to simply trying to print old >designs onto it.b  D I have heard that Intel retain the capacity to FAB 80286 processors.D Possibly because these are still installed new in some military specE kit. If Intel kept this capability then perhaps so should Compaq have D - not by themselves but maybe they could have contracted Intel to do5 it for them. I could have been misinformed of course.b   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:27:36 GMTM2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)i2 Message-ID: <Id%u7.1076$YP.26063@news.cpqcorp.net>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   @ : Surely the microprocessors used to drive microwaves or watches2 : aren't built with 13 micron copper technology ?   ?   Yep, and the manufacturers involved make gazillions of these C1   (relatively simple and purpose-designed) chips.n  C : There must be some FABs around that could still build VAX chips ?   C   The semiconductor designs and the masks are tweaked to match the sF   particular fab processes and characteristics used.  With the DIGITALE   Hudson fab lines, the fab process was tweaked to match the design,  E   too.  (I fully expect Intel tweaks both the design and the line to  E   raise the yeilds, to improve the performance of the design, and to IG   reduce the production costs.  If you can manage all three at once...)n  E : Also, if IBM has a FAB capable of 13 micron, couldn't that same FABmD : technically build a VAX with a design that only required 30 micron
 : precision ?   H   Could a VAX chip be built?  Sure.  Is it simply a case of pulling someI   archive media off a shelf somewhere and loading it into a semiconductorr    process control system?  No.    G   Is fabbing a VAX going to be an inexpensive project?  Definitely not.   J   Does a market exist for new VAX systems?  There is certainly some demand   for this.  (But how much?)  J   Does a market exist for new VAX microprocessors and new designs?  Donno.   Probably.  (Again, how much?)   J   Is there a big enough market to justify starting up a VAX design effort?  H   What will be the price of the microprocessor chip?  (This includes theL   production costs, as well as the up-front costs of the design, the design @   team, the design and process testing, the system design, etc.)  F   Do alternatives -- software emulators or upgrade paths -- exist?  If4   so, how will you (successfully) compete with them?  G   Will you be able to recoup the investment, particularly competing in hE   a market where Intel can push its semiconductor designs into (huge)yE   volume production, and can tweak its designs and its lines?  (IntelcI   parallels Henry Ford in this regard -- the Model T was not a remarkablepJ   design in many ways, it was Ford's ability to produce huge volumes that +   was at the core of the design's success.)t   	--i  I   There is an on-going pattern in the newsgroup of considering technologyaJ   issues in preference to business issues, though the business issues are H   central to any such discussion.  (Heck, I too prefer to discuss and toJ   work on the new technologies, but the business aspects are what permits G   me to acquire and to work on the new technology.  If you can't figure H   out how to make money on something, well, you must get quite creative &   when acquiring the necessary money.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:27:30 -0400h2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>? Subject: Re: Fabbing new VAX? (was: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)t* Message-ID: <3BBC8DF1.BD3024FD@oracle.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > & > Charon VAX is excessivly expensive !  8 	I'd argue that charon vax is very reasonable.  comparedA to the cost of owning and maintaining an old vax system, it seemss@ like having a brand-new fast PC with current fast disks would beA a great deal from most angles (maintenance, power, cooling, etc).z> charon vax would also potentially be a lot less expensive thanC having to reengineer q-bus interfaces and/or re-write applications.f   > 0 > I would suggest them to make a partneship with0 > VMWare to improve their product and reduce the
 > price... > 	 > Regardsm >  > FC3 > --- Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s > wrote:8 > > I think Charron running on Alpha, and later Itanium, > > is a better choice thanh5 > > trying to FAB a VAX.  And from what I understand,  > > there is a lot more to a2 > > new chip process and it doesn't lend itself to > > simply trying to print old > > designs onto it. > >  > >  > > JF Mezei wrote in messageW' > > <3BBB6C2B.3AC8CD2B@videotron.ca>...  > > >Hoff Hoffman wrote:4 > > >>   around) but the semiconductor manufacturing > > processes that were used5 > > >>   to fabricate the VAX chips such as NVAX+ areB > > themselves no longer used. > > >e7 > > >But if HP were to have a garage sale and I were tos > > buy all of the VAX > > patents,0 > > >designs etc for $1, couldn't I go to Intel," > > Motorolla etc and tell them to+ > > >make me a few thousand customs chips ?V > > >h8 > > >Surely the microprocessors used to drive microwaves > > or watches aren't builtt5 > > >with 13 micron copper technology ? There must be  > > some FABs around that 	 > > could4 > > >still build VAX chips ? > > >c1 > > >Also, if IBM has a FAB capable of 13 micron,f > > couldn't that same FAB4 > > >technically build a VAX with a design that only > > required 30 micron > > precision ?h > > >e8 > > >Wouldn't the VAX become incredibly cheap because it > > wouldn't be built on > > the 4 > > >latest and greatest FABs and not cost much more > > than the small CPU on my > > bike > > >computer ?a > >e > >8 >  > =====o > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?P > NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.% > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1c   -- s> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 08:10:44 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> Subject: Free VAX 3400> Message-ID: <R%_u7.47850$T%4.903702@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>  J A customer came by the other day and gave us an old MicroVAX 3400 that had@ been gathering dust in their warehouse.  The info I have is 28MBI (16MB+8MB+4MB onboard), DSSI disks (400MB system disk, 1GB in an extra BA?L expansion box), CXY serial boards with octopus cables (not sure if 8 or 16),J a SCSI tape controller and VT320 console.  It's dusty but was running when: shut down about 2 years ago.  No software and no warranty.  K There are a few miscellaneous parts with it:  a DELNI, two VXT terminals in L unknown condition (just tested, they did power up and load the VXT software,L both have 16MB), and whatever else is in the boxes from the warehouse, looks7 like some beat up printers and a nice RJ45 patch panel.D  I The deal is you haul it away, from Las Vegas Nevada.  Send me an email ifa you are interested.t    Jack Peacock  peacock@simconv.comi   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 06:36:37 -0700 , From: dframeli@aus.telusa.com (Dale Frameli)C Subject: How to mount an ISO9660 CD under OpenVMS v1.5-1H1 (Alpha)?c= Message-ID: <de844d64.0110040536.397e9247@posting.google.com>t  F I'm having a problem mounting and accessing an ISO9660 compliant CDROME disc under OpenVMS v1.5-1H1 (Alpha).  After checking the online help,o> I tried several variations of the mount command.  For example:  & >MOUNT/SYSTEM/MEDIA=CDROM DKA0: KERMIT- >MOUNT/SYSTEM/MEDIA=CDROM ALPHA1$DKA0: KERMIT>$ >mount/override=id/media=cdrom dka0:  E   Each command failed with the same error message "User has no access F to magnetic tape file on !AD!/."  What is !AD!/???  DKA0: is my CD-ROMD device.  Privledges are set to all...  Below is an example, any helpA would be greatly apprisciated.  Please respond to me directly at:r dframeli@aus.telusa.com.   Thanks,k Dale     TELGC> sho dev d  F Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans MntiF  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count Cntn. ALPHA1$DKA0:            Online wrtlck        0F ALPHA1$DKA200:          Mounted              0  DISK$SAP       1235844	   132   1rF ALPHA1$DKA300:          Mounted              0  AVMS1H1015      940956	   289   1C. DAD0:                   Online               0   TELGC> set proc/priv=all  * TELGC> mount/override=id/media=cdrom dka0:D %MOUNT-F-NOFILACC, user has no access to magnetic tape file on !AD!/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:36:09 GMT92 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)G Subject: Re: How to mount an ISO9660 CD under OpenVMS v1.5-1H1 (Alpha)?a2 Message-ID: <Jl%u7.1078$YP.26115@news.cpqcorp.net>  > In article <de844d64.0110040536.397e9247@posting.google.com>, . dframeli@aus.telusa.com (Dale Frameli) writes:G :I'm having a problem mounting and accessing an ISO9660 compliant CDROMy% :disc under OpenVMS v1.5-1H1 (Alpha).l  H   Please upgrade.  V1.5-1H1 is a limited hardware release that is eight H   years old this month, and it was replaced by OpenVMS Alpha V6.1 about :   seven years ago.  Support for V1.5-1H1 ended circa 1995.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:28:17 -04002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>T Subject: Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER!2 Message-ID: <sl_u7.1073$YP.26045@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob,  J I just wanted to let you know that I sent your note to the VMS engineeringI group here in ZK today.  Talk about making a persons day.  Thank you veryu2 much for posting this note.  We feel the same way.  
 Warm Regards,C   Suer  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0109291946.256c80b1@posting.google.com...DG > I AM TIRED OF READING THESE LAME BRAIN SO CALLED VMS USERS SAYING VMSCF > TIME IS COMING ... THAT OTHER OS'S ARE CATCHING UP ... WHAT OS'S AREG > CATCHING UP???  UNIX IS A HACK CITY WISH I WAS VMS OS, AND SURELY YOU3H > DON'T MEAN WINDOWS??? I JUST SPENT 3 DAYS TRAINING ON WINDOWS ADVANCEDH > SERVER 2000 AND IT CRASHED 3 TIMES WHILE IN CLASS!  GARTNER GROUP JUSTK > PUT OUT A WARNING TO ABANDON IIS IMMEDIATELY!  I HAVE BEEN ON VMS NOW FOR-H > OVER 15 YEARS AND HAVE YET TO HAVE AN OS CRASH!  WINDOWS IS AND ALWAYSG > WILL BE A CLIENT ... DAVE CUTLER HAS FAILED TO MAKE WINDOWS LIKE VMS!nF > GARTNER SAYS IIS IS HACK CITY AND NEEDS REWRITTEN AND THAT COMPANIESK > WORRIED ABOUT SECURITY SHOULD LOOK AT NEW ALTERNATIVES ... WELL I ALREADYnF > AM ON THE MOST SECURE OS ON THE WORLD ... VMS ... MY COUSIN RECENTLYH > WENT TO THE DEPT. OF DEFENSE TO SELL NETWORK PRODUCTS AND SAID VMS WASG > ALL OVER THE PLACE ... IT HAS JUST WENT INTO THE JSTARS PLANE THAT ISAH > RIGHT NOW FLYING OVER AFGANISTAN ... THE MILITARY ISN'T STUPID ... ANDL > NEITHER AM I ... VMS WILL BE AROUND THRU 2015 AND MAYBE LONGER ... IT ALSOI > IS THE BEST WEB SERVER AROUND ... AND ALL THESE IDIOTS ARE ON THIS SITEaD > SAYING SOON WE WILL HAVE TO PORT TO UNIX OR WINDOWS CAUSE THEY ARE CATCHINGL > UP?  HELLO!!!  WHAT HAVE THESE PEOPLE BEEN SMOKING?  YOU GO AHEAD AND PORTI > TO WINDOWS AND IIS AND UNIX ... I WILL STICK WITH THE MILITARY AND STAYwI > ON VMS ... AND WE WILL SEE WHO GOES BALD FIRST!  SECURITY, RELIABILITY,cI > CLUSTERING ARE WHAT VMS IS ALL ABOUT, AND NO ONE IS GOING TO COME CLOSEr  > FOR A LONG LONG TIME!  PERIOD!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:50:57 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>rT Subject: Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER!2 Message-ID: <AH_u7.36404$Z2.527234@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messagea, news:sl_u7.1073$YP.26045@news.cpqcorp.net... > Bob, >gL > I just wanted to let you know that I sent your note to the VMS engineeringK > group here in ZK today.  Talk about making a persons day.  Thank you verya4 > much for posting this note.  We feel the same way. >...  L How about sending it to all of the marketing and sales people. If I could beH so bold to speak for others, I would say that most of the people in thisL newsgroup feel the same way. We need to get the marketing people feeling the( same way and get this out to the masses.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 17:21:31 +0200 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)T Subject: Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER!* Message-ID: <3bbc7e7b$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  b In article <AH_u7.36404$Z2.527234@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:> >"Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message- >news:sl_u7.1073$YP.26045@news.cpqcorp.net...- >> Bob,1 >>M >> I just wanted to let you know that I sent your note to the VMS engineeringeL >> group here in ZK today.  Talk about making a persons day.  Thank you very5 >> much for posting this note.  We feel the same way.n >>...2 > M >How about sending it to all of the marketing and sales people. If I could beuI >so bold to speak for others, I would say that most of the people in this M >newsgroup feel the same way. We need to get the marketing people feeling thep) >same way and get this out to the masses.i  % And don't forget the C-level folks...i   -- 0< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:21:59 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>cT Subject: Re: I WILL QUIT USING VMS WHEN THE MILITARY DOES - IN 2015 OR MAYBE LONGER!8 Message-ID: <nivorts69s6svcbb2903f6v28rqf5nfetj@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:50:57 -0400, "Peter Weaver"l <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:n  > >"Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message- >news:sl_u7.1073$YP.26045@news.cpqcorp.net...  >> Bob,a >>M >> I just wanted to let you know that I sent your note to the VMS engineeringiL >> group here in ZK today.  Talk about making a persons day.  Thank you very5 >> much for posting this note.  We feel the same way.  >>...h > M >How about sending it to all of the marketing and sales people. If I could be I >so bold to speak for others, I would say that most of the people in thisDM >newsgroup feel the same way. We need to get the marketing people feeling thea) >same way and get this out to the masses.e  ? Exactly! In fact why not forward it to Capellas and Winkler for=. comment? That's a serious question by the way.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:26:28 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>F Subject: Re: IBM goes after Sun ? (was Sun goes after Alpha user base)* Message-ID: <3BBC9BC4.3A35D271@dplanet.ch>  D Check The Inquirer report at http://www.theinquirer.net/04100106.htm  $ There's strange happenings afoot ...   John McLeant     Andrew Harrison wrote: >  > cjt & trefoil wrote: >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:0 > > >19 > > > "Dan Foster" <dsf@frontiernet.net> wrote in message 5 > > > news:9p966a$2gau$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net...I2 > > > > In article <3B713EBB.CDA83D5E@uk.sun.com>,: > > > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:N > > > > >> some time next year or early 2003, EV7 is likely to.  When will Sun > > > figure. > > > > >> out how to make a cache that works?
 > > > > >>	 > > > > >.> > > > > >We did some time ago. The ecache on E10Ks and smaller@ > > > > >UltraII based machiens has been modified. This happened > > > > >late last year. > > > >uI > > > > Hmm. From published reports that I've read, Sun went as far as toeI > > > > 'request' that early sites with the ecache fixes do so under NDA?  > > > >,@ > > > > If true (in whatever form), that sure wasn't impressive. > > >fO > > > I reported this matter a couple of years ago, back when disgruntled UE10KDL > > > users set up a "Disgruntled UE10K Users" Web site. Jaikumar Vijayan atM > > > ComputerWorld ran the story in midsummer 2000. Sun was not amused abouth< > > > being outed, but they ultimately resolved the problem. > > >t > > > >cK > > > > My understanding is that it took Sun quite a while to get an handledI > > > > on the whole thing - admittedly I still don't know what the cause J > > > > is to this day, but it's sounding like a general chip design issue/ > > > > that just didn't get caught in testing.r > > >uM > > > The cache in the 400MHz and 440MHz UltraSparc II CPUs didn't have errorhO > > > correction capability. As noted about, the more recent CPUs do not suffer  > > > from this deficiency.i > >eR > > That in and of itself might not have been serious, as I understand it, had oneS > > of their suppliers not produced cache that was especially susceptible to cosmicd8 > > rays, and in a year of exceptional sunspot activity. > >t > D > I don't know about the Sunspot activity, however one of the ecacheC > suppliers had a much, much lower failure rate than the other due.l >  > >r > > Murphy's law.t > 	 > Regardso > Andrew Harrisono > Enterprise IT Architectb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:04:10 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>L Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)) Message-ID: <3BBC341A.C2E22B3E@127.0.0.1>n   Alan Greig wrote:yL > The port is undeniably the right thing to do. It's about two years since IJ > posted that VMS must be ported to IA64 or die when Compaq killed Alpha -L > something I always expected after the termination of Alpha/NT. Just didn'tL > expect the announcement quite this soon. It's the ending of Alpha that was  > wrong - not the VMS IA64 port.   Well, yes and no.r  H You can't honestly say that Alpha was stopped dead in its tracks becauseD we haven't had the EV7 systems, they are still due for delivery withC EV79 in the 2003 2004 timeframe. EV8, and EV9, EV10 has stopped. Son? we've effectively got a "stopping distance" and a warning. As IdE mentioned before, would anyone have supposed that the introduction oflG Alpha would have 'killed' the VAX? Well it happened, and I can tell you G there are people non too happy with that, they expected the VAX to live 1 on and on, beyond _my_ retirement. Not happening.sE So they adopt Alpha and take advantage of the migrationary kludges tosF have their "VAX in an Alpha". With what is happening now, these peopleH have realised, today, that their multi million future investment in VMS,D NOT the hardware, is protected by thinking in a platform independentE way. The CETS presentations give some of the details of how to handlenE the Alpha to Itanium transition, in addressing this they also realisecF they have to bury the VAX. (And anything that 'locks' you into Alpha).  C The most important thing is, they know this _now_, today. OK, it isSC extra effort, more work, but this stands them in good stead for the , future. Works on Alpha, will also work on X.  G Why do I say X? Well check out Clair Grants presentation from CETS, themF last slide "Portable OpenVMS". I guess it's open and now in the publicD domain that this is "more than a port to IA-64". (Disclaimer: I knowG there is no commitment, I didn't say it, I guess Clair didn't commit toFE it either, but I wasn't at CETS, but it _was_ in his slides. I was ineF possession of  "this strong rumour" over which I bit my tongue a while back.)  @ Itanium not fast enough for you sir? Well, run it on the Power4.  H Take a look at the write ups by Paul DeMone, but with the above in mind,H when Paul was writing about the Power4, and comparing it to EV8, the EV8C would be given a run for its money, and any delivery failures wouldqH probably see Alpha falling back in the performance stakes. Although that+ wasn't said, it was implied in the article.r  F I accept that the Power4 itself may also have a rival, as yet unnamed,< hence the ? for the platform architecture in Clair's slides.  D Pain and gain, but lets not forget the confidence building. Just howG exciting do you want this to get? I appreciate you're feeling pain from F this Alan, but I see a lot more reasons to be positive. It really is aH waste of time arguing about the performance of Itanium, because there is% no commitment to _keep_ VMS on IA-64!BH (I'm on the verge of getting my wrists slapped posting this, so I'll addF that this is my opinion and industry observation, and 'commitment' was not discussed).t --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 04 Oct 2001 18:50:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>L Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)- Message-ID: <87pu8365mu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:    > Nic Clews wrote:  s? > > The more and more I understand about the 'port', the more ItC > > realise it was the right thing to do. I also appreciate this isi > > the time to get ouri  BD > The port is undeniably the right thing to do. It's about two yearsC > since I posted that VMS must be ported to IA64 or die when CompaqnE > killed Alpha - something I always expected after the termination ofaE > Alpha/NT. Just didn't expect the announcement quite this soon. It'se= > the ending of Alpha that was wrong - not the VMS IA64 port.   B This is insane. The port is stupid, it only makes any sense if youB have the death of alpha as a given. It is the best of a bad bunch,B but by no means is it 'right'. Notice how things are already beingC cut back and removed? Come '04 there will be little left I suspect._       -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:12:08 +0100@% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>rL Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)8 Message-ID: <qmeort81kk6q42b4io6vkltl6fo4tsvkif@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:04:10 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:    E >Pain and gain, but lets not forget the confidence building. Just howtH >exciting do you want this to get? I appreciate you're feeling pain fromG >this Alan, but I see a lot more reasons to be positive. It really is aiI >waste of time arguing about the performance of Itanium, because there iso& >no commitment to _keep_ VMS on IA-64!I >(I'm on the verge of getting my wrists slapped posting this, so I'll addoG >that this is my opinion and industry observation, and 'commitment' wasp >not discussed).   Nic,  C There is a difference between what VMS engineering might like to doeD and what Compaq/HP will allow. No matter what is seemingly signed inC blood it can be cancelled. May take some money or the company goingtD out of business but it can happen. Forcing an architecture change onE users as opposed to *adding* to the portability is not what VMS couldtB have done with right now. Nor Compaq for that matter. That;s why IE started arguing for an IA64 port two years ago - not because I didn'tc@ like Alpha but because I didn't trust Compaq to take care of itsC future. I am well aware of where Marcello would like to take VMS asTD I've talked to him directly about it. Before he started sticking hisE fingers in his ears that is. I am equally sure that Capellas does not C share the same vision for VMS's future as Marcello. And THAT IS THE 
 PROBLEM!!!  E Take their current disastrous performance. Either Alpha sales droppedoD somewhat due to recent announcements or else there was no effect. IfE no effect then Compaq's disaster can be attributed to the Wintel side E of the business alone.  The correct business model would have been tonF build up the profitable side. Not alienate vendors and customers. EvenB if some, such as yourself are happy, I could't give a damn about a@ portable VMS with no application support for anything my company& needs. At least not in my current job.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Oct 2001 19:53:56 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>L Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)- Message-ID: <87hetf62p7.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > Alan Greig wrote: N > > The port is undeniably the right thing to do. It's about two years since IL > > posted that VMS must be ported to IA64 or die when Compaq killed Alpha -N > > something I always expected after the termination of Alpha/NT. Just didn'tN > > expect the announcement quite this soon. It's the ending of Alpha that was" > > wrong - not the VMS IA64 port.   > Well, yes and no.   B > You can't honestly say that Alpha was stopped dead in its tracks@ > because we haven't had the EV7 systems, they are still due forC > delivery with EV79 in the 2003 2004 timeframe. EV8, and EV9, EV10 C > has stopped. So we've effectively got a "stopping distance" and auE > warning. As I mentioned before, would anyone have supposed that theeF > introduction of Alpha would have 'killed' the VAX? Well it happened,C > and I can tell you there are people non too happy with that, theySA > expected the VAX to live on and on, beyond _my_ retirement. Not  > happening.  @ I don't think many expected the Vax to soldier on except for oddE cases, and folks with Q/Unibus interfaces that could not be replaced.I  G > So they adopt Alpha and take advantage of the migrationary kludges to7H > have their "VAX in an Alpha". With what is happening now, these peopleJ > have realised, today, that their multi million future investment in VMS,F > NOT the hardware, is protected by thinking in a platform independentG > way. The CETS presentations give some of the details of how to handle@G > the Alpha to Itanium transition, in addressing this they also realisetH > they have to bury the VAX. (And anything that 'locks' you into Alpha).  8 Problem one here... There are 3 groups of Vax users now;   1 Home users 2 Developers of SWC 3 Those with SW or HW that is NOT and won't be available for alpha. )   And that won't be on the itanic either.   > The first, well... The second can live with a performance hit.  F So, what do 7000 Vax owners do about clusters of vaxes and Alphas?  CID is out, not to be on itanic, so good bye shared storage unless KeithC does the HS03 :) FDDI and 10BaseX are the only cluster interconectsDF that will run on Alpha, Vax, or itanic. So if you are in the possitionE of running a big cluster with multiple CIs, Vax only SW etc, you willIF be screwed solidly, royally and right where it hurts. Don't expect theE 'performance garantee' to cover you either. Or q or unibus itanics...E   -- D< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.I@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:36:22 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> L Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)8 Message-ID: <gllortcopj15f72sp75db73f6lf5eq6b2a@4ax.com>  E On 04 Oct 2001 18:50:33 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>R wrote:  ( >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >  >> Nic Clews wrote:O > @ >> > The more and more I understand about the 'port', the more ID >> > realise it was the right thing to do. I also appreciate this is >> > the time to get our > E >> The port is undeniably the right thing to do. It's about two years D >> since I posted that VMS must be ported to IA64 or die when CompaqF >> killed Alpha - something I always expected after the termination ofF >> Alpha/NT. Just didn't expect the announcement quite this soon. It's> >> the ending of Alpha that was wrong - not the VMS IA64 port. > C >This is insane. The port is stupid, it only makes any sense if youuC >have the death of alpha as a given. It is the best of a bad bunch,   F But the death of Alpha is a given now. I think it was a given even two4 years ago but of course that's a matter of opinion.   C >but by no means is it 'right'. Notice how things are already being D >cut back and removed? Come '04 there will be little left I suspect.  F And I suspect you're right there as well unfortunately. But that's why> we need to keep the pressure on Compaq now to try and avoid itA becoming a certainty. Despite Compaq's managements dislike of oursE attacks on their competence my opinion is that it does more good than7D harm. Of course management would like us to shut up. If they thoughtE the customer base was completely docile we'd have seen the end of VMSl1 announced by now. In my humble opinion obviously.>   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:46:54 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> L Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)( Message-ID: <9pi3m2$cm2$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageu# news:3BBC341A.C2E22B3E@127.0.0.1...l > Alan Greig wrote:eL > > The port is undeniably the right thing to do. It's about two years since IlL > > posted that VMS must be ported to IA64 or die when Compaq killed Alpha -G > > something I always expected after the termination of Alpha/NT. Just  didn'tJ > > expect the announcement quite this soon. It's the ending of Alpha that wasS" > > wrong - not the VMS IA64 port. >a > Well, yes and no.V  G While you may not have meant it this way, the above is exactly correct:-G yes, announcing the death of Alpha was wrong, but no, the VMS IA64 portlI wasn't particularly right (unless you assume Alpha was going away and VMS ' needed a refuge - any port in a storm).    ...-   > these peopleJ > have realised, today, that their multi million future investment in VMS,F > NOT the hardware, is protected by thinking in a platform independentG > way. The CETS presentations give some of the details of how to handleo! > the Alpha to Itanium transition   G Exactly:  *existing* VMS customers have some protection and an arguablyoA viable path for continuing to use VMS, as long as they don't neede  L a) platform performance that follows the curve they had expected it to (it'sJ likely to be pretty flat for several years after EV7 appears - assuming itI does - while IA64 struggles to catch up with EV7's on-chip SMP and memorywI glue features in perhaps 2005 and then to move toward an EV8-like core in  the 2006 - 2007 time frame) or  L b) much in the way of VMS enhancements (since VMS engineering will be prettyG much dedicated to getting the port out the door for at least the next 2-D years - and depending upon *any* kind of longer-term commitment fromH cHomPaq, especially given the apparent continuity of the existing Compaq, management, would be really, really stupid).  & , in addressing this they also realiseH > they have to bury the VAX. (And anything that 'locks' you into Alpha). >aE > The most important thing is, they know this _now_, today. OK, it isjE > extra effort, more work, but this stands them in good stead for theD	 > future.<  I Well, for that subset of existing customers who meet the above conditions.L *and* who don't decide that if they have to port anyway a port to some otherH platform in whose future they may have more confidence might be a betterL choice, anyway.  That could be (SWAG) as little as 20% of the existing base,G or as high as 50%:  even if it's as high as 70% (dream on), can this be  considered *good* news?e  K Especially when combined with the dampening effect on *new* customer use of.C VMS caused by its availability for the next several years only on a H declared-dying hardware platform.  Terry used to maintain that somethingK like 15% of VMS sales (or customers?) were new each year:  it would be very L interesting to see how many new customers VMS attracts over the next 2 yearsJ (assuming its owners survive that long), and whether the existing-customerE defection rate (which was about the same, given the reported relative J stability of the VMS population) increases after the initial hit caused by the Alphacide.  %  Works on Alpha, will also work on X.r >eI > Why do I say X? Well check out Clair Grants presentation from CETS, thewH > last slide "Portable OpenVMS". I guess it's open and now in the publicF > domain that this is "more than a port to IA-64". (Disclaimer: I know > there is no commitment  L What if there were?  Would anyone believe it if they didn't see accompanyingD funding?  Until one sees Compaq actually spending money on somethingK VMS-related, it seems pretty safe to assume that their statements are aimed B solely at retaining current volume:  after all, Alpha's future was5 proclaimed rock-solid right up until the end of June.t  1 , I didn't say it, I guess Clair didn't commit to G > it either, but I wasn't at CETS, but it _was_ in his slides. I was intH > possession of  "this strong rumour" over which I bit my tongue a while > back.) > B > Itanium not fast enough for you sir? Well, run it on the Power4. > J > Take a look at the write ups by Paul DeMone, but with the above in mind,J > when Paul was writing about the Power4, and comparing it to EV8, the EV8E > would be given a run for its money, and any delivery failures wouldIJ > probably see Alpha falling back in the performance stakes. Although that- > wasn't said, it was implied in the article.o  F EV8 seemed a more versatile and more efficient (in chip area and powerG consumption) approach than Power4, but in server use the two might havelH offered similar single-die performance (and Power4 will still leave IA64K eating its dust - unless the dust has settled by the time IA64 gets there).   K But splitting the high-performance-sensitive part of the market with Power4aK would have still allowed Alpha volumes to grow substantially over what theytL have been - leaving aside the other markets where the combination of Alpha'sG speed (making it more cost-effective even where raw performance was not K critical) and its unique OS strengths could have allowed its volume to growv
 many-fold.  = What Compaq loses by axing Alpha is the very real synergy and H differentiation offered by that combination.  VMS and Tru64 offer uniqueE features:  hobble them with a dog like IA64 and people have to choosetJ between features and performance, whereas on a thorougbred like Alpha they? get to offer the best performance *and* the best functionality.w   >sH > I accept that the Power4 itself may also have a rival, as yet unnamed,> > hence the ? for the platform architecture in Clair's slides.  J Don't be silly:  the reason for the '?' is that Compaq has tied its futureH solely to Intel and that mention of any other hardware platform would beK considered treason.  The only reason that door was left open at all (though.I anonymously) was because of the intense negative reaction to IA64 and thexI hope that some customers might accept the faint hint of an alternative as  encouraging.   >lF > Pain and gain, but lets not forget the confidence building. Just howI > exciting do you want this to get? I appreciate you're feeling pain fromn9 > this Alan, but I see a lot more reasons to be positive.I  0 Then you're either very biased or very gullible.  < Compaq has repeatedly taken every opportunity to move towardK 'industry-standard' hardware and software offerings and/or slash investments in any other areas:w   1.  NT on Alpha.  = 2.  VMS promotion (after its brief flowering under Pfeiffer).n  I 3.  VMS development (modest to start with, and now even more so given theh demands of the port).P  : 4.  Tru64 port to IA64 (now killed for the *second* time).   5.  Alpha itself.a  @ 6.  Storage offerings not needed by 'industry-standard' servers.  E (That's just off the top of my head - feel free to add to this list.)i  F No rational observer could reasonably believe that Compaq views VMS asF anything more than a cash cow to be milked dry and fed only minimally.K While Alpha was still perceivable as a viable platform choice by customers,lK there existed at least some hope that VMS might 'prove itself' to Compaq as J worthy of better treatment, but the Alphacide effectively killed that:  ifK Compaq didn't appreciate VMS's pre-Alphacide revenue and profit, there's no  chance at all now.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 11:59:09 -0500t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nL Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)3 Message-ID: <jHQR9CkVBXNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <3BBB65A3.441056A8@virgin.net>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >  >  > Nic Clews wrote: > I >> The more and more I understand about the 'port', the more I realise it K >> was the right thing to do. I also appreciate this is the time to get ourn > L > The port is undeniably the right thing to do. It's about two years since IJ > posted that VMS must be ported to IA64 or die when Compaq killed Alpha -L > something I always expected after the termination of Alpha/NT. Just didn'tL > expect the announcement quite this soon. It's the ending of Alpha that was  > wrong - not the VMS IA64 port.  1 Alpha does not end until people stop buying them.t  D Compaq says EV8 would not be cost-effective, since by the time it is$ release, IA64 would be close enough.  : I expect EV7 to last quite a bit longer than Compaq plans.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:10:36 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>,L Subject: Re: Itanium and Bi-endianism (was: Re: Ben Rosen the real culprit?)( Message-ID: <9pi52h$eh2$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:jHQR9CkVBXNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org...0   ...   3 > Alpha does not end until people stop buying them.   E No, Alpha ends when cHomPaq stops selling them - just like VAX ended.s   >hF > Compaq says EV8 would not be cost-effective, since by the time it is& > release, IA64 would be close enough.  = And Compaq lies through its teeth - though no surprise there.<   >i< > I expect EV7 to last quite a bit longer than Compaq plans.  J And I expect EV7 to be lucky to get out the door at all (i.e., to be a lotF shorter-lived than Compaq *states*, which may or may not relate at all closely to what it *plans*).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 08:42:36 -0700w' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i) Subject: Re: Letter from Michael Cappelaso+ Message-ID: <3BBC836C.3C1C8E8D@caltech.edu>w  - _firstname_@lr_dot_los-gatos_dot_ca.us wrote:n   >b1 >  Cpq has a very bad reputation among the peopleA? > who use, administer, plan/specify/recommend, and purchase VMSsD > machines.  Many of Cpq's own customers think (whether justified orB > not) that Cpq is a bunch of habitual liers. Being distrusted and2 > disliked by your own customers is a big problem.  H It isn't just Compaq's VMS customers who have problems with this outfit. PC magazine doesD user surveys every year and this time around the Q came out with the lowest possible gradehG for desktops, portables, and some other category I don't remember. Theyt eked out an averagee$ grade in PC servers.  Here's a link:  D http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s%253D1564%2526a%253D7559,00.asp  H (Warning, it's about a thousand times easier to read this article in the
 magazine).  0 One paragraph says (note: E is the worst score):  @                        Compaq earns all E's, just as it does for
 desktops, butiG                        there's no easy statistic that explains Compaq's H                        ongoing woes. Among a dozen drill-down repair andH                        technical-support questions on the survey, Compaq isC                        mostly average. But the overall satisfactionf question?                        yields below-average scores in all threes subsections.  I The explanation that they missed  is that while the Q's performance isn'tp numericallyeF much worse than some others, they have a unique talent for pissing off their customers.C It feels sometims like  Q management graduated from the Don Ricklesy Business Academy.e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:12:29 -0500, From: "Tony Scandora" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov>) Subject: Re: Letter from Michael Cappelase+ Message-ID: <9pi1pf$skh$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>8  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BBBF2EC.C128D169@videotron.ca.../ > _firstname_@lr_dot_los-gatos_dot_ca.us wrote:o >...G > By downsizing the VMS customer base, keeping only the most profitablei ones,CE > Compaq can then claim on having higher profit per VMS customer, andt
 perhaps by@ > keeping only a few customers, it can also downsize its support infrastructureG > and provide more personalised service to the few remaining customers.  ThoseoL > customers would get better service and Compaq wouldn't have to worry about > tons of small customers. >yE > In other words, the way I see it, Compaq is turning VMS into an NSK8 businessF > model with a very small but highly profitable customer base that get > specialised service.  K What's wrong with that?  Most of the markets that made Digital's glory daysoH moved to SunOS, IRIX, or others a long time ago, or to Windows, never toK move back.  Face facts.  Not only is Windows the market leader, but WindowsnL 2000, even if still lacking features and reliability VMS had years ago, is aH respectable operating system on its own terms, Windows XP is better, andI Visual Studio is a nicer and more productive development environment thaneI EVE or LSE and compilers.  I would rather see Compaq conquer markets they I can conquer and make money doing so than to be an also-ran in a commoditylJ market dominated by one vendor and customers who put price as their number  one product selection criterion.  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541o scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:01:23 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>l) Subject: Re: Letter from Michael Cappelas.( Message-ID: <9pi4h7$deq$1@pyrite.mv.net>  7 "Tony Scandora" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov> wrote in messaget% news:9pi1pf$skh$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov...a< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3BBBF2EC.C128D169@videotron.ca...   ....  G > > In other words, the way I see it, Compaq is turning VMS into an NSK 
 > businessH > > model with a very small but highly profitable customer base that get > > specialised service. >y > What's wrong with that?t  J Nothing, for the set of customers that fit that description.  However, VMSI is a far more versatile system than is represented by that niche, and haslL far more potential for market share and profit - and a current customer base2 that would like to see it grow rather than shrink.  4   Most of the markets that made Digital's glory daysJ > moved to SunOS, IRIX, or others a long time ago, or to Windows, never toA > move back.  Face facts.  Not only is Windows the market leader,C  I Bullshit.  Windows dominates the market only on desktops (where VMS nevereL was a contender in the first place, much as some people might have wished itL to be).  It is strong in workstations but hardly undisputed, and the same inK low-end servers (where it is the leader but where Linux is moving up fast).sD And in 'embedded' applications it's still struggling for acceptance.  E Windows is nowhere in high-end servers or high-performance computing.     but WindowsL > 2000, even if still lacking features and reliability VMS had years ago, is atJ > respectable operating system on its own terms, Windows XP is better, andK > Visual Studio is a nicer and more productive development environment thann > EVE or LSE and compilers.I  J Which likely means that VMS would never enjoy anything like the breadth ofA applications that Windows does, unless it provides a sufficientlyhL Unix-compatible environment to inherit them from open source efforts.  Fine:K the non-desktop environments where VMS shines don't need anything like that B breadth, though improved development facilities are always a plus.  0   I would rather see Compaq conquer markets they% > can conquer and make money doing sof  H Which is all most people disgusted at Compaq's actions have been asking.F VMS conquered the markets it enjoys *in spite of* first DEC's and thenH Compaq's efforts to hobble it, and could have done much better with even modest encouragement.p  &  than to be an also-ran in a commodityL > market dominated by one vendor and customers who put price as their number" > one product selection criterion.  I A description which does not apply to the markets VMS and Alpha were moste" attractive in, up until June 25th.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:20:38 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com5 Subject: Re: Locate Filename containing logical block 4 Message-ID: <C2256ADB.0049032F.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  O First, my thanks to all who areparticipating.  While, I still do not understand  what/ is happening, we may yet get to an explanation.i  K Let me recap a little.  This is a VAX V6.2 local SCSI system-disk shadowsetm pair. K The error is logged either by BACKUP/IMAGE from another node in the clusterBJ or dump/block=(start=3361593,count=1) dsa12: from any node in the cluster.J (We get the LBN from analysis by running DECevent (DIAG) on the errlog.sys file.)  M This shadowset was created during an upgrade of the disk pair from RZ26L's to F RZ28M's by backup/IMAGE from the shadowset to one RZ28M which was thenL booted, followed by a shadowcopy to the other RZ28M, with subsequent removal of the RZ26L's.l  N The forced-error block yesterday found it's way into the accountng.dat file on the system.,L I created a new accountng.dat, renaming the one with the forced-error block. Then I madeiN a new copy of that using convert/fdl and deleted the one with the forced-error block.  A At no time during this procedure was the error count incremented.m  P I then did an analyze/disk/read/repair on the shadowset, and it found nothing to report.tB I then executed the dump command, and the error count incremented.  L I really do not know what to try next,  As Keith says, the forced-error flag should be on bothvL disks.  I though, though, that deleting the file with the forced-error block should make thetP block go out-of-use and a new logical block be assigned, which seems not to have	 happened.y   -Norme        6 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com on 10/03/2001 11:52:27 PM  . Please respond to keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comu cc:n6 Subject:  Re: Locate Filename containing logical block        K Paul (sic) sent me an e-mail showing the extents of INDEXF.SYS, and the badM? block was nowhere in there, so it can't be a backup home block.o  - JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote O > In the case of a shadowset, , I realise that the error log would give detailseO > about the read error on the actual physical disk, but would the user actuallyaP > be told about such an errior if the boock can be read succesfully from another > drive in the set ?  A If Shadowing finds an uncorrectable read error on one member of awC shadowset, and it can read the data successfully from another validtC member, it revectors the bad sector and overwrites it with the good D data from the other disk at that time, which clears the forced-error< flag, so there would be no forced-error flag left around for subsequent reads.u  D The fact that a shadowset contains a sector with a Forced-Error FlagD would normally indicate that at least at one point in the past thereD was only one member in the shadowset, and there was an uncorrectable> read error on that sector at that time (because the odds of anF uncorrectable read error on two or more separate physical disks at the same time are quite low).o  D Then how could a multi-member shadowset contain a forced-error flag?A If Shadowing is doing a full copy operation from a single disk toiB another disk and comes across a forced-error-flagged sector on the: source disk, it dutifully replicates that sector, with theB forced-error flag set, on the output volume.  That way a shadowsetD always provides the semantics of a single disk: always returning theE same data (and error, in this case) regardless of which member of the  shadowset is read.  K > The original poster mentioned something about backup. Does Backup somehowiO > bypass some of the shadowing layer to access more information from the actual  > hard drives ?a   I doubt that this is the case.  A Could it be the file is marked-for-delete, and thus DFU SEARCH ishC ignoring it?  Could the block be incorrectly marked allocated?  ForuC either of these cases, an ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR pass followed by someMB operation to overwrite all free space (e.g. by writing a file thatB takes up all free blocks on the disk) might clear the forced-error flag on that block.cC -------------------------------------------------------------------sC Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:wC Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/Ov   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:23:42 +0200o& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>5 Subject: Re: Locate Filename containing logical blockw* Message-ID: <3BBC9B1E.B2173609@dplanet.ch>  B Some years ago I had a show-stopping bug on a shadowset.  The onlyF explanation I could think of was that one disk effectively said "I canH get that", the controller said "OK" and then the disk was unable to so. 3 Result was a hung I/O despite it being a shadowset.r  E What happens if you drop one member out of your shadowset ?  Does theo= problem still occur ?  And if you drop the other member out ?   D Try dismounting one disk, mounting it without the OVER=SHADOW (whichH will put it in read-only), then try  the DUMP command.  Then put it backG into the shadowset.  (Unfortunately with the VMS version you are on, itr$ will do a complete "catch-up" copy.)  ? If this was the "bad" disk, the copy may take the problem away.d  C If the problem is still present, drop the other disk and repeat them" above.  Let us know what you find.     Good luck !    John McLean       ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:d > V > First, my thanks to all who areparticipating.  While, I still do not understand what1 > is happening, we may yet get to an explanation.. > S > Let me recap a little.  This is a VAX V6.2 local SCSI system-disk shadowset pair. M > The error is logged either by BACKUP/IMAGE from another node in the clusterhL > or dump/block=(start=3361593,count=1) dsa12: from any node in the cluster.L > (We get the LBN from analysis by running DECevent (DIAG) on the errlog.sys > file.) > O > This shadowset was created during an upgrade of the disk pair from RZ26L's to H > RZ28M's by backup/IMAGE from the shadowset to one RZ28M which was thenN > booted, followed by a shadowcopy to the other RZ28M, with subsequent removal > of the RZ26L's.  > \ > The forced-error block yesterday found it's way into the accountng.dat file on the system.Z > I created a new accountng.dat, renaming the one with the forced-error block. Then I madeW > a new copy of that using convert/fdl and deleted the one with the forced-error block.  > C > At no time during this procedure was the error count incremented., > Z > I then did an analyze/disk/read/repair on the shadowset, and it found nothing to report.D > I then executed the dump command, and the error count incremented. > ` > I really do not know what to try next,  As Keith says, the forced-error flag should be on both^ > disks.  I though, though, that deleting the file with the forced-error block should make theR > block go out-of-use and a new logical block be assigned, which seems not to have > happened.6 >  > -Norm4 > 8 > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com on 10/03/2001 11:52:27 PM > 0 > Please respond to keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com >  > To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comt > cc:y8 > Subject:  Re: Locate Filename containing logical block > M > Paul (sic) sent me an e-mail showing the extents of INDEXF.SYS, and the bad A > block was nowhere in there, so it can't be a backup home block.  > / > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrotelQ > > In the case of a shadowset, , I realise that the error log would give detailstQ > > about the read error on the actual physical disk, but would the user actually'R > > be told about such an errior if the boock can be read succesfully from another > > drive in the set ? > C > If Shadowing finds an uncorrectable read error on one member of a@E > shadowset, and it can read the data successfully from another validwE > member, it revectors the bad sector and overwrites it with the goodeF > data from the other disk at that time, which clears the forced-error> > flag, so there would be no forced-error flag left around for > subsequent reads.e > F > The fact that a shadowset contains a sector with a Forced-Error FlagF > would normally indicate that at least at one point in the past thereF > was only one member in the shadowset, and there was an uncorrectable@ > read error on that sector at that time (because the odds of anH > uncorrectable read error on two or more separate physical disks at the > same time are quite low).c > F > Then how could a multi-member shadowset contain a forced-error flag?C > If Shadowing is doing a full copy operation from a single disk to D > another disk and comes across a forced-error-flagged sector on the< > source disk, it dutifully replicates that sector, with theD > forced-error flag set, on the output volume.  That way a shadowsetF > always provides the semantics of a single disk: always returning theG > same data (and error, in this case) regardless of which member of theh > shadowset is read. > M > > The original poster mentioned something about backup. Does Backup somehowrQ > > bypass some of the shadowing layer to access more information from the actualo > > hard drives ?o >   > I doubt that this is the case. > C > Could it be the file is marked-for-delete, and thus DFU SEARCH isqE > ignoring it?  Could the block be incorrectly marked allocated?  ForsE > either of these cases, an ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR pass followed by somehD > operation to overwrite all free space (e.g. by writing a file thatD > takes up all free blocks on the disk) might clear the forced-error > flag on that block.eE > ------------------------------------------------------------------- E > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:-E > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O<   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 08:06:38 GMTe3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)a0 Subject: Re: Mac OS X 10.1 sees PATHWORKS shares0 Message-ID: <9ph5ae$f26$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  n In article <021020011315108829%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> writes:B >Since upgrading to Mac OS X some months ago, I've been without myA >OpenVMS file shares, served by PATHWORKS for OpenVMS (Macintosh)e= >software.  OS X 10.0 had AppleTalk for printers but only didt# >AppleTalk-over-IP for file shares.r >rC >I just received my 10.1 upgrade kit and upgraded this morning, andpC >voila!  I can now see all my OpenVMS file shares just like I couldn >under Mac OS 9 and earlier. >vE >Perhaps NFS is a better long-term solution, and may be faster, but ItH >only got half-way to getting it to work between the Mac and OpenVMS andH >never got around to completing the configuration.  Now I don't have to!   Thanks for the tip!w     Christoph Gartmann  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 07:55:33 -0500'- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t! Subject: Re: Memo:  Quota Setting 3 Message-ID: <hK4ySGNzbGIz@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  a In article <3BBB1DA2.6EDEB041@BlueBubble.UK.Com>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:k   > Why make work for yourself ?  H    What, me work?  I'm using a DCL based utility (DSKUSG.COM) we got as -    "freeware" from DEC on my second 11/780.  n  D    Back in '81 I added a couple things to it and all I've done since-    then is run it.  This is on VMS, you know.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 07:58:18 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i! Subject: Re: Memo:  Quota Settinge3 Message-ID: <EEsXUFBtBaHW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <3BBB45B7.3A9848D7@cableinet.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:i >  fE > you mean having system managers is not REALLY going out of fashion,e% > like the market currently suggests?-  F    We've had attempts to replace system managers with problem desks.  J    Fortunately we never tried to teach them how to restore a VMS backup.  K    It didn't take us long to chase the PC-heads off our AIX system, either.-  ?    You should have seen one of them react when my Mac spoke up.l  ?    Problem solving is only one small part of system management.l   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 13:11:07 GMTI) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)h! Subject: Re: Memo:  Quota Settingf' Message-ID: <9phn5b$pba$1@joe.rice.edu>n  . Bob Koehler (koehler@encompasserve.org) wrote:@ : In article <3BBB45B7.3A9848D7@cableinet.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn ) : <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:e : >   G : > you mean having system managers is not REALLY going out of fashion,p' : > like the market currently suggests?n :nH :    We've had attempts to replace system managers with problem desks.  L :    Fortunately we never tried to teach them how to restore a VMS backup.  M :    It didn't take us long to chase the PC-heads off our AIX system, either.o :)K To a PC-head, "restore" and "backup" are soemthing they're unfamiliar with,eD since Windows doesn't have any standard way of backup and restoring.  ( The three "R"s of Microsoft support are:  	   o RetryL
   o Reboot
   o Reinstallm   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:42:21 -04002 From: "Gary E. Green" <gegreen@dra-consulting.com>3 Subject: Re: Need help with $QIO calls in C programs8 Message-ID: <3bbc68f4$0$93669$f92e4de5@news.stratos.net>  G I didn't see in your listing the routine where you actually receive thehH "message". (If it's there and I didn't see it, humble apologies.  Darned
 bifocals! 8).   K One of the holes to fall in to when doing TCP communications (especially if I you happen to be used to DECnet!) is that there are *NO* messages in TCP.LG What's sent may be a message but what's received is a byte stream.  TheaJ octets come out of the "pipe" in the order they went in...but there are no guaranties about grouping.  E Thus, your application must be designed to handle "partial messages",tK "multiple messages" (i.e., more than one message arrives clumped together),  and combinations of the above.  G You are likely to run into "partial message" issues if you have a "fairhL amount" of message traffic, a single AST posted on the receiving QIO, and do) a fair amount of processing at AST-level.l  K To cope with this, you'll need an application-layer protocol that gives younJ the necessary information to cope with "partial messages" (e.g., a messageH header that gives you the expected number of bytes for this message) andG explicit code in the AST routine to manage the incoming byte stream and 3 assemble messages for the rest of your application.-  F The way I've usually seen this done is to have a message buffer with aI sliding "window"  -- incoming bytes are tacked on to the end of a buffer;2K the number of bytes received compared against the number required to have aVJ sensible header; if we have a sensible header , the header is examined forI number of bytes expected; if we have enough bytes for a sensible message,SL then the message is captured and the buffer window is slid to the end of the; message. lather rinse repeat. (well, you get the idea here)    Hope this helps some   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:04:44 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>u3 Subject: Re: Need help with $QIO calls in C program / Message-ID: <troukfng1rlfe5@news.supernews.com>a  J I don't think you want to call sys$qioW in an AST.  When you get a connectH AST you should allocate a data structure and call sys$qio to do the readI with a completion AST.  Pass a pointer to the allocated data structure astJ the AST param.  In the read complete AST, you call sys$qio to do the writeL with another completion AST, etc. etc.  Also, in the connect AST routine youK should queue another connect so that another client could connect while thei' first client read as still outstanding.i  E The way you've written it, multiple clients will stack up, there's noe multithreading possible.  > Also, you will want to add /REENTRANCY=AST to your CC command.  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagem( news:3BBB9514.3C1A2B4B@pressenter.com... > Hello, >t1 > Alpha VMS v7.2-1 and v7.2-2 (with various ECOs)w+ > TCP/IP v5.0a and v5.1 (with various ECOs)i > DEC C v6.2 >lJ > I'm looking for some help in writing a tcp/ip client server application. >d@ > And, before anything else, no, this is NOT a homework project. >tH > I started by writing a couple simple programs, a client and server, to > provea@ > the concept and to test my logic. (I've tried to attach them.) >rH > My idea is have the server listen, whenever a connection request comes > in, anH > AST fires off, takes the connection and gets the data from the client, > andpI > sends back an acknowledgement. Otherwise, the server is in HIBER state.rJ > Consuming minimal resources. The client is the active part; it fires up, > getsH > the server's address, and gets the user input. It sends the request to > the ' > server and waits for acknowledgement.t >mH > I've written both applications, and they both work. And they do what I > want > themI > to do. But I'm concerned. I'm not sure I've written the applications to  > be& > as efficient and robust as possible. >a* > I chose to use the AST approach so I canH > handle multiple clients. I thought that by keeping the listener highlyE > available, and by firing off an AST to handle the actual connection D > communication, I could have multiple clients. Keeping the listener > available asB > much as possible is important. I want to be certain that the AST > instanceseA > won't interfere with one another. (Assuming multiple copies areh > simultaneously
 > active.) >.H > I don't want to keep i/o connections open and "locked" any longer thenH > necessary. Nor do I want to waste resources unnecessarily creating and
 > deleting > i/o connections either.b > I > I looked through TCPIP$EXAMPLES:*.C files, and I've been reading at thehG > manuals. Particularly the TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Sockets API ande > System > Services Programming manual. >e> > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73FINAL/6529/6529pro.html > F > In Chapter 2: I used figure 2-1 for a model but added looping on the > client$ > <side, and AST on the server side. >nB > I guess my base questions are: How did I do? Did I call the QIOs > correctly? AndH > in the correct sequences? Am I doing too much? Not enough? Am I on the > right  > track? >aG > Anyway, using the examples as starting a starting, I came up with the- > attached programs. >- >-  > Thank-you for looking at them. >n > Lyndon >u > --I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.  >  > J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt. >     L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----     > /* tcpip-client-sock.c > ; > This program is the client portion. It does the following  >0 > 1. Creates socket. > 2. Binds socket. > 3. Starts looping. > 4. Get's user input. > 5. sends connection request. > 6. Writes data to socket.e > 7. Waits for acknowledgment.  > 8. Goes back to loop beginning > 9. Deletes socket. > 10. exits. >l > */ >  >-7 > #include <descrip.h> /* define OpenVMS descriptors */1 >99 > #include <efndef.h> /* define 'EFN$C_ENF' event flag */c >R: > #include <in.h> /* define internet related constants, */! > /* functions, and structures */f5 > #include <inet.h> /* define network address info */F4 > #include <iodef.h> /* define i/o function codes */ >t9 > #include <lib$routines.h> /* define library routines */r >s? > #include <netdb.h> /* define network database library info */l > < > #include <rmsdef.h> /* define rms functions, structures */ >p= > #include <ssdef.h> /* define system service status codes */r8 > #include <starlet.h> /* define system service calls */8 > #include <stdio.h> /* define standard i/o functions */= > #include <stdlib.h> /* define standard library functions */o< > #include <string.h> /* define string handling functions */9 > #include <stsdef.h> /* define condition value fields */v > D > #include <tcpip$inetdef.h> /* define tcpip/ip network constants */! > /* structures, and functions */s >f > /* >  *  NAMED CONSTANTSl >  */y >y1 > #define BUFSZ 1024 /* user input buffer size */,5 > #define SERV_PORTNUM 12345 /* server port number */o6 > #define max_msg_len 256 /* maximum message length */ >i >t3 > #define $ARRAY_DESCRIPTOR(name,size,array_name) \o  >     char array_name[ size ]; \& >     struct dsc$descriptor_s name = \4 > { size, DSC$K_DTYPE_T, DSC$K_CLASS_S, array_name } >l >e > /* >  *  Structure definitionsd >  */e > 
 > struct iosb  >     { /* i/o status block */8 >     unsigned short status; /* i/o completion status */B >     unsigned short bytcnt; /* bytes transferred if read/write */9 >     void *details; /* address of buffer or parameter */. >     }; >d > struct itemlist_2 , >     { /* item-list 2 descriptor/element */+ >     unsigned short length; /* length   */O2 >     unsigned short type; /* parameter type;   */1 >     void *address; /* address of item list   */e >     }; >- > struct sockchary, >     { /* socket characteristics buffer  */+ >     unsigned short prot; /* protocol   */@& >     unsigned char type; /* type   */. >     unsigned char af; /* address format   */ >     }; >1 >1 >v > /* >  *  FORWARD REFERENCES >  */w >s% > int main(void); /* client main   */M? > void get_serv_addr( void * ); /* get server host address   */y >o >a > int main(void) > {g > * > struct iosb iosb; /* i/o status block */D > struct sockchar conn_sockchar; /* connect socket char buffer    */G > struct itemlist_2 serv_itemlst; /* server item-list 2 descriptor   */bE > struct sockaddr_in serv_addr; /* server socket address structure */- >d9 > unsigned int status; /* system service return status */t7 > unsigned short conn_channel; /* connection channel */a > @ > $DESCRIPTOR( inet_device, /* string descriptor with logical */= >      "TCPIP$DEVICE:"); /* name of internet pseudodevice  */n >sE > $DESCRIPTOR(prompt_string_desc,"DATA TO SEND TO SERVER (<CTRL/Z> to  terminate) >>> ");@ > $ARRAY_DESCRIPTOR(write_buffer_desc,max_msg_len,write_buffer);% > int done = FALSE; /* Loop Flag   */n >n > char inbuffer[BUFSZ];u > unsigned int inbuflen=BUFSZ; >  > /*3 >  *  init connection socket characteristics bufferp >  */s >n# > conn_sockchar.prot = TCPIP$C_TCP;l& > conn_sockchar.type = TCPIP$C_STREAM;' > conn_sockchar.af   = TCPIP$C_AF_INET;r >m > /*( >  *  init server's item-list descriptor >  */  >k3 > memset( &serv_itemlst, 0, sizeof(serv_itemlst) );t, > serv_itemlst.length = sizeof( serv_addr );$ > serv_itemlst.address = &serv_addr; >S > /*, >  *  init server's socket address structure >  */t >a- > memset( &serv_addr, 0, sizeof(serv_addr) );y) > serv_addr.sin_family = TCPIP$C_AF_INET;l/ > serv_addr.sin_port   = htons( SERV_PORTNUM );s% > get_serv_addr(&serv_addr.sin_addr);n >c > /* >  *  assign device socket >  */m >eG > status = sys$assign( &inet_device, /* device name                  */o8 >      &conn_channel, /* i/o channel                  */, >      0, /* access mode                  */- >      0); /* not used                     */  > " > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     {aA >     printf( "Failed to assign i/o channel to TCPIP device\n" );  >     exit( status );t >     }i >p > /*G >  *  Loop forever, getting user input, and sending it across the TCPIPe >  *  connection.v >  */e >e > while ( !(done) )a >     {n3 >     write_buffer_desc.dsc$w_length = max_msg_len;e >     status = lib$get_input(e > &write_buffer_desc,  > &prompt_string_desc,# > &write_buffer_desc.dsc$w_length);a >y >     /*1 >      * If at end of file (user typed <ctrl/z> )n >      * send exit signal 	 >      */- >- >     if (status == RMS$_EOF)O > {01 > strcpy(write_buffer_desc.dsc$a_pointer,"exit"); % > write_buffer_desc.dsc$w_length = 4;  > done = TRUE; > }g >D > /* >  *  create connection socket >  */  >s0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */) >    IO$_SETMODE, /* i/o function code */i" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */h >    0, /* ast parameter */s2 >    &conn_sockchar, /* p1 - socket char buffer */ >    0,0,0,0,0); /* p2 - p6 */ >3 > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )o >     status = iosb.status;h >B" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { , >     printf( "Failed to create socket\n" ); >     exit( status );e >     }i >p >     /*' >      *  Initiate connection to servert	 >      */t > = >     printf( "Initiated connection to host: %s, port: %d\n",h; > inet_ntoa(serv_addr.sin_addr),ntohs(serv_addr.sin_port));h >o4 >     status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */( >        conn_channel, /* i/o channel */, >        IO$_ACCESS, /* i/o function code */& >        &iosb, /* i/o status block */% >        0, /* ast service routine */d >        0, /* ast parameter */r >        0, /* p1 */ >        0, /* p2 */5 >        &serv_itemlst, /* p3 - remote socket name */n >        0,0,0); /* p4 - p6 */ >w" >     if (status & STS$M_SUCCESS ) > status = iosb.status;u >c& >     if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) > { + > printf( "Failed to connect to server\n");h > exit( status );r > }l >  >     /*- >      *  Connection established with server;n+ >      *  now attempt to send user's input.d	 >      */  >c4 >     status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */! > conn_channel, /* i/o channel */ ( > IO$_WRITEVBLK, /* i/o function code */ > &iosb, /* i/o status block */  > 0, /* ast service routine */ > 0, /* ast parameter */+ > write_buffer_desc.dsc$a_pointer, /* p1 */a* > write_buffer_desc.dsc$w_length, /* p2 */ > 0,0,0,0); /* p3 - p6 */a >s# >     if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )  > status = iosb.status;r >n& >     if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) > { . > printf( "Failed to write to connection.\n"); > exit(status);f > }a >s >  >     /*< >      *  Message sent. Wait for acknowledgement from server	 >      */c >l4 >     status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */! > conn_channel, /* i/o channel */ ' > IO$_READVBLK, /* i/o function code */r > &iosb, /* i/o status block */f > 0, /* ast service routine */ > 0, /* ast parameter */' > &inbuffer, /* input buffer address */l% > inbuflen, /* input buffer length */c > 0,0,0,0); /* p3 - p6 */r >t# >     if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )t > status = iosb.status;i >c& >     if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) > {b: > printf( "Failed to read data from server connection\n"); > exit(status);  > }w > / >     printf( "Data received: %s\n", inbuffer);  >m > /*  >  *  shutdown connection socket >  */  >t0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */9 >    IO$_DEACCESS|IO$M_SHUTDOWN,  /* i/o function code */r" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */t >    0, /* ast parameter */h >    0,0,0, /* p1 - p3 */d4 >    TCPIP$C_DSC_ALL, /* p4 - discard all packets */ >    0,0); /* p5 - p5 */ >m > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )a >     status = iosb.status;r >a" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { 8 >     printf( "Failed to shutdown server connection\n"); >     exit(status);@ >     }e >.. > printf( "Connection to server shutdown.\n"); >s > /* >  *  close connection socket  >  */a >m0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */* >    IO$_DEACCESS, /* i/o function code */" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */  >    0, /* ast parameter */   >    0,0,0,0,0,0); /* p1 - p6 */ >e > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )m >     status = iosb.status;B >K" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { + >     printf( "Failed to close socket.\n");e >     exit(status);< >     }3 >4 > printf( "Socket Closed.\n"); >  > }l >e > /* >  *  deassign device socket >  */  >n& > status = sys$dassgn( conn_channel ); > " > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { + >     printf( "Failed to close socket.\n");e >     exit(status);  >     }e >. >  > return SS$_NORMAL; > }e >o >a > void  > get_serv_addr( void *addrptr ) > {i > char buf[BUFSZ]; > struct in_addr val;  > struct hostent *host;  >  > while ( TRUE ) >     {f& >     printf( "Enter remote host: " ); >o3 >     if ( fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), stdin) == NULL )e > { * > printf( "Failed to read user input\n" ); > exit( EXIT_FAILURE );r > }e >e >     buf[strlen(buf)-1] = 0;  >j$ >     val.s_addr = inet_addr( buf ); >D& >     if ( val.s_addr != INADDR_NONE ) > { 2 > memcpy( addrptr, &val, sizeof(struct in_addr) ); > break; > }@ >l( >     if ( (host = gethostbyname(buf)) ) > {c: > memcpy( addrptr, host->h_addr, sizeof(struct in_addr) ); > break; > }t >     }o > }u >f    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----     > /* >aK > This program is a tcpip server process. It starts. Creates a output file.o ThenL > goes to sleep. While it is sleeping, any tcpip messages that come into theL > computer on the port 12345, awakens an ast. Any non-null text sent to that portI > is printed to the file. Then the process goes back to sleep again. Onceu the L > exit signal is recieved, the process awakens, closes the output file, then > exits. >t > */ >- > /* >  * INCLUDE FILES:- >  */- >-C > #include <descrip.h>                /* define OpenVMS descriptors  */ >nF > #include <efndef.h>                 /* define 'EFN$C_ENF' event flag */ >sK > #include <in.h>                     /* define internet related constants,l */B >                                     /* functions, and structures */D > #include <inet.h>                   /* define network address info */B > #include <iodef.h>                  /* define i/o function codes */ >  > #include <lib$routines.h>  >tH > #include <netdb.h>                  /* define network database library info */v >iK > #include <ssdef.h>                  /* define system service status codesi */D > #include <starlet.h>                /* define system service calls */F > #include <stdio.h>                  /* define standard i/o functions */J > #include <stdlib.h>                 /* define standard library functions */I > #include <string.h>                 /* define string handling functions  */F > #include <stsdef.h>                 /* define condition value fields */ >r > #include <tcpip$inetdef.h> >l >  > /* >  * NAMED CONSTANTS:e >  */p >c5 > #define MBUFSIZE 128 /* size of a message buffer */o > #define MBUFQUO 384a1 > #define SERV_BACKLOG 1 /* server backlog     */ ? > #define SERV_PORTNUM    12345           /* server port numberc */ >t >A > /* >  * Structure definitions >  */r > 
 > struct iosbm >     { /* i/o status block */8 >     unsigned short status; /* i/o completion status */A >     unsigned short bytcnt; /* bytes transfered if read/write */ 9 >     void *details; /* address of buffer or parameter */e >     }; >  >i > struct itemlst_2K >     {                                   /* item-list 2 descriptor/element  */3 >     unsigned short length;              /* length  */; >     unsigned short type;                /* parameter typet */A >     void *address;                      /* address of item listt */ >     }; >t > struct itemlst_3K >     {                                   /* item-list 3 descriptor/element  */3 >     unsigned short length;              /* lengthu */; >     unsigned short type;                /* parameter typet */A >     void *address;                      /* address of item lists  */ G >     unsigned int *retlen;               /* address of returned lengthu */ >     }; >i > struct sockchariJ >     {                                   /* socket characteristics buffer */5 >     unsigned short prot;                /* protocol  */1 >     unsigned char type;                 /* typel */; >     unsigned char af;                   /* address formats */ >     }; >i > I > struct itemlst_3 client_itemlst; /* client item-list 3 descriptor    */a: > struct iosb iosb; /* i/o status block                 */H > struct sockaddr_in client_addr; /* client socket address structure  */F > struct sockaddr_in serv_addr; /* server socket address structure  */G > struct itemlst_2 serv_itemlst; /* server item-list 2 descriptor    */  >hE > unsigned short conn_channel; /* connect inet device i/o channel  */wG > unsigned short listen_channel; /* listen inet device i/o channel   */i >a/ > char inbuffer[MBUFSIZE]; /* message buffer */f@ > unsigned int inbuflen=MBUFSIZE; /* length of message buffer */B > char outbuffer[MBUFSIZE]; /* server data buffer               */L > unsigned int  outbuflen = MBUFSIZE; /* length of server data buffer     */ >  > FILE *message_file;v >l > void connectast(); >i > int main (void) {n >n > 4 > fprintf(message_file,"I'm going to sleep now.\n");+ > int one = 1; /* reuseaddr option value */n >e9 > unsigned int status; /* system service return status */m > D > unsigned int client_retlen; /* returned length of client socket */ > /* address structure */n >eB > struct sockchar listen_sockchar; /* listen socket char buffer */ >f >aH > struct itemlst_2 sockopt_itemlst; /* sockopt item-list 2 descriptor */I > struct itemlst_2 reuseaddr_itemlst; /* reuseaddr item-list 2 element */u >I >  >t@ > $DESCRIPTOR( inet_device, /* string descriptor with logical */= >      "TCPIP$DEVICE:" ); /* name of internet pseudodevice */m >i >  > /*/ >  *  init listen socket characteristics buffer  >  */a >,% > listen_sockchar.prot = TCPIP$C_TCP; ( > listen_sockchar.type = TCPIP$C_STREAM;) > listen_sockchar.af   = TCPIP$C_AF_INET;n >  > /*( >  *  init reuseaddr's item-list element >  */  >b, > reuseaddr_itemlst.length  = sizeof( one );0 > reuseaddr_itemlst.type    = TCPIP$C_REUSEADDR;# > reuseaddr_itemlst.address = &one;) >. > /*) >  *  init sockopt's item-list descriptor  >  */" >y8 > sockopt_itemlst.length  = sizeof( reuseaddr_itemlst );, > sockopt_itemlst.type    = TCPIP$C_SOCKOPT;/ > sockopt_itemlst.address = &reuseaddr_itemlst;P >E > /*( >  *  init client's item-list descriptor >  */u >.7 > memset( &client_itemlst, 0, sizeof(client_itemlst) ); 0 > client_itemlst.length = sizeof( client_addr );( > client_itemlst.address = &client_addr;) > client_itemlst.retlen = &client_retlen;  >s > /*, >  *  init client's socket address structure >  */t > 1 > memset( &client_addr, 0, sizeof(client_addr) );y >s > /*( >  *  init server's item-list descriptor >  */o >c- > serv_itemlst.length  = sizeof( serv_addr );g+ > serv_itemlst.type    = TCPIP$C_SOCK_NAME; $ > serv_itemlst.address = &serv_addr; >s > /*, >  *  init server's socket address structure >  */o >m- > memset( &serv_addr, 0, sizeof(serv_addr) );n. > serv_addr.sin_family      = TCPIP$C_AF_INET;4 > serv_addr.sin_port        = htons( SERV_PORTNUM );1 > serv_addr.sin_addr.s_addr = TCPIP$C_INADDR_ANY;n >h > /* >  *  assign device socketst >  */e > 6 > status = sys$assign( &inet_device, /* device name */) >      &listen_channel, /* i/o channel */- >      0, /* access mode */* >      0); /* not used */  >s" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     {oD >     printf( "Failed to assign i/o channel(s) to TCPIP device\n" ); >     exit( status );  >     }  >s >s6 > status = sys$assign( &inet_device, /* device name */' >      &conn_channel, /* i/o channel */k >      0, /* access mode */t >      0); /* not used */l > " > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     {OD >     printf( "Failed to assign i/o channel(s) to TCPIP device\n" ); >     exit( status );  >     }< >h > /* >  * create a listener sockets >  */  >f0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */& >    listen_channel, /* i/o channel */) >    IO$_SETMODE, /* i/o function code */e" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */s >    0, /* ast parameter */i4 >    &listen_sockchar, /* p1 - socket char buffer */ >    0,0,0, /* p2 - p4 */c0 >    &sockopt_itemlst, /* p5 - socket options */ >    0); /* p6 */c >t > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )e >     status = iosb.status;  >l" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { 5 >     printf( "Failed to create listener socket\n" );a >     exit( status );o >     }u >< > /*7 >  *  bind server's internet address and port number tot3 >  *  listen socket; set socket as a passive socketi >  */< >i0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */& >    listen_channel, /* i/o channel */) >    IO$_SETMODE, /* i/o function code */y" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */R >    0, /* ast parameter */b >    0,0, /* p1 - p2 */_0 >    &serv_itemlst, /* p3 - local socket name */0 >    SERV_BACKLOG, /* p4 - connection backlog */ >    0,0); /* p5 - p6 */ >; > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )  >     status = iosb.status;P >," > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { 3 >     printf( "Failed to bind listener socket\n" );  >     exit( status );  >     }  >  >n >n> > if ((message_file = fopen("socket-output.txt","w")) == NULL) >     {;) >     perror ("fopen socket-output.txt");  >     exit (EXIT_FAILURE); >     }  >p> > fprintf(message_file, "Program started. Awaiting input.\n"); >i > /*' >  *  accept a connection from a clientt >  */; > : > printf( "Waiting for a client connection on port: %d\n",% >         ntohs(serv_addr.sin_port));f >eH > fprintf( message_file,"Waiting for a client connection on port: %d\n",& >          ntohs(serv_addr.sin_port)); >o/ > status = sys$qio( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */*& >    listen_channel, /* i/o channel */4 >    IO$_ACCESS|IO$M_ACCEPT, /* i/o function code */" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */+ >    &connectast, /* ast service routine */t >    0, /* ast parameter */s >    0,0, /* p1 - p2 */ 3 >    &client_itemlst, /* p3 - remote socket name */b0 >    &conn_channel, /* p4 i/o channel for new */ > /* connection */ >    0,0); /* p5 - p6 */ >t > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )s >     status = iosb.status;  > /*" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     {k9 >     printf( "Failed to establish listener channel.\n");t >     exit( status );s >     }n > */& > printf("I'm going to sleep now.\n");4 > fprintf(message_file,"I'm going to sleep now.\n"); >t > /* Go into hibernation */C > status = SYS$HIBER();  > if (status != SS$_NORMAL)s >     LIB$SIGNAL(status);n >e >" > /* After being awakened */ > /* Close test file */; > < > printf("Received termination Signal... Shutting down.\n");K > fprintf(message_file, "Received termination Signal... Shutting down.\n");i > fclose(message_file);  >  > /* >  *  close listen sockett >  */t >s' > printf("Closing listener socket.\n");. >t0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */& >    listen_channel, /* i/o channel */* >    IO$_DEACCESS, /* i/o function code */" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */t >    0, /* ast parameter */n  >    0,0,0,0,0,0); /* p1 - p6 */ >e > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )  >     status = iosb.status;t >d" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     {d+ >     printf( "Failed to close socket\n" );_ >     exit( status );T >     }v >d > /*! >  *  deassign all device sockets  >  */v >d( > printf("Deassigning i/o channels.\n");& > status = sys$dassgn( conn_channel ); >=! > if ( (status & STS$M_SUCCESS) )e, >     status = sys$dassgn( listen_channel ); > " > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { F >     printf( "Failed to deassign i/o channel(s) to TCPIP device\n" ); >     exit( status );! >     }  >$ > exit( EXIT_SUCCESS );  > }r >f > void connectast(void) {n > 9 > unsigned int status; /* system service return status */p > : > char exitstr[5]; /* Exit string to signal end of exec */ >s/ > printf("Entering Connection AST routine.\n");h= > fprintf(message_file,"Entering Connection AST routing.\n");h >m9 > printf("Accepted connection from host: %s, port: %d\n",e? > inet_ntoa(client_addr.sin_addr),ntohs(client_addr.sin_port));tG > fprintf(message_file,"Accepted connection from host: %s, port: %d\n", ? > inet_ntoa(client_addr.sin_addr),ntohs(client_addr.sin_port));$ >F > /*+ >  *  connection established with a client;"1 >  *  now attempt to read data on this connection  >  */T >;0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */* >    IO$_READVBLK, /* i/o function code */" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */b >    0, /* ast parameter */ ) >    &inbuffer, /* p1 - buffer address */a' >    inbuflen, /* p2 - buffer length */  >    0,0,0,0); /* p3 - p6 */ >0 > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )f >     status = iosb.status;  > " > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { ? >     printf( "Failed to read data from client connection\n" );k >     exit( status );t >     }  >  > inbuffer[0,iosb.bytcnt] = 0;) > printf("Data received: %s\n",inbuffer); 7 > fprintf(message_file,"Data received: %s\n",inbuffer);% >"# > strcpy(outbuffer,"acknowledged");t  > outbuflen = sizeof(outbuffer); >  > /* >  *  Write data to client >  */a >/0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */+ >    IO$_WRITEVBLK, /* i/o function code */ " >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */  >    0, /* ast parameter */0* >    &outbuffer, /* p1 - buffer address */( >    outbuflen, /* p2 - buffer length */ >    0,0,0,0); /* p3 - p6 */ >s > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )s >     status = iosb.status;s >u" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { > >     printf( "Failed to write data to client connection\n" ); >     exit( status );n >     }h >w > K > printf( "Data sent: %s\n", outbuffer ); /* output server's data buffer */ I > fprintf(message_file,"Data sent: %s\n", outbuffer ); /* output server'sn data buffer */ >V > /*  >  *  Shutdown connection socket >  */t >s0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */  >    IO$_DEACCESS|IO$M_SHUTDOWN, > /* i/o function code */ " >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */C >    0, /* ast parameter */s >    0,0,0, /* p1 - p3 */ 4 >    TCPIP$C_DSC_ALL, /* p4 - discard all packets */ >    0,0); /* p5 - p6 */ >a > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )  >     status = iosb.status;r >k" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     { 9 >     printf( "Failed to shutdown client connection\n" );a >     exit( status );  >     }E >B* > printf("Connection Socket Shutdown.\n");8 > fprintf(message_file,"Connection Socket Shutdown.\n"); >s > /* >  *  Close Connection Socket  >  */a >e0 > status = sys$qiow( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */$ >    conn_channel, /* i/o channel */* >    IO$_DEACCESS, /* i/o function code */" >    &iosb, /* i/o status block */! >    0, /* ast service routine */  >    0, /* ast parameter */v  >    0,0,0,0,0,0); /* p1 - p6 */ >  > if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )e >     status = iosb.status;  >*" > if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) >     {t+ >     printf( "Failed to close socket\n" );a >     exit( status );, >     }h >e( > printf("Connection Socket Closed.\n");6 > fprintf(message_file,"Connection Socket Closed.\n"); >  > strcpy(exitstr,"exit");i >*$ > if (strcmp(inbuffer,exitstr) == 0) >     {*& >     printf("strcmp equals zero.\n"); >     status = SYS$WAKE(0,0); 3 >     if (status != SS$_NORMAL) LIB$SIGNAL(status);S >     } 
 >     else >     {s. >     printf("strcmp does not equal zero.\n"); >  >  >     /*+ >      *  accept a connection from a client 	 >      */s >u> >     printf( "Waiting for a client connection on port: %d\n", ntohs(serv_addr.sin_port) );K >     fprintf(message_file,"Waiting for a client connection on port: %d\n",  ntohs(serv_addr.sin_port) ); >  >     /*! >      *  Create another listener/	 >      */b >*3 >     status = sys$qio( EFN$C_ENF, /* event flag */*) >       listen_channel, /* i/o channel */07 >       IO$_ACCESS|IO$M_ACCEPT, /* i/o function code */ % >       &iosb, /* i/o status block */ . >       &connectast, /* ast service routine */ >       0, /* ast parameter */ >       0, /* p1 */s >       0, /* p2 */46 >       &client_itemlst, /* p3 - remote socket name */4 >       &conn_channel, /* p4 i/o channel for new  */ > /* connection */ >       0, /* p5 */a >       0); /* p6 */ > # >     if ( status & STS$M_SUCCESS )e > status = iosb.status;t >a >) >     /*& >     if ( !(status & STS$M_SUCCESS) ) > {a5 > printf( "Failed to establish listener channel.\n");r > exit( status );u > }_	 >      */  >     }h	 > return;t > }  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 06:21:42 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>9 Subject: No more OpenVMS products from Vector  Networks ?F@ Message-ID: <20011004132142.98536.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  3 Today I was checking the OpenVMS partners homepages - and discovered that Vector Networks dont have,4 the links of OpenVMS products (LANUtil and LANPrint) They changed the homepage...  2 But the old link to OpenVMS products still working  5 http://www.vector-networks.com/products/index_vms.htm    Do you know anything ??????-     REgards-   FC=20-     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dp  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/mon= th. # http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1C   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 06:27:13 -0700f< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)& Subject: Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0110040527.42feae9e@posting.google.com>e  _ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BBBD430.D09C9EA@fsi.net>.../ > Tom Linden wrote:  > > @ > > Try posting your query on alphant@lyris.sunbelt-software.com > I > C'mon, guys, enough with the guessing games - is this a mailing list ornG > what? How does one "post a query", or is it YAML (yet another mailinga > list)?  9 Well, _this_ is a newsgroup.  Or is it a mail list?  Or an$ newsmailgrouplist?  but I digress...  D Instructions for joining our mail list (alphant) and a nice web formF for joining and perusing (gee, you could search the archives, too, butF I don't think you'll find an explicit pointer there) are available at:  Z  http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/scripts/lyris.pl?enter=alphant&text_mode=0&lang=english  8 (yuh, sorry for the long url, you may need to splice it)  ? And while I'm on the topic, things are looking pretty rosey forNA getting alphant.com back online here in the near future.  Huzzah!e   Best regards to all, AaronF   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:24:58 +0200V2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>) Subject: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001s+ Message-ID: <3BBC7F49.6F50215A@digital.com>s    The newest FAQ is up in HTML on + http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/faq.htmn  9 Please let me know about errors in sytax, appearance etc. 9 On matters of content please refer to the FAQ maintainer.    Mike -- iE ----------------------------------------------------------------------E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*rF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:23:52 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) - Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001 0 Message-ID: <00A0304F.82B951BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <3BBC7F49.6F50215A@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> writes:! >The newest FAQ is up in HTML on  , >http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/faq.htm >/: >Please let me know about errors in sytax, appearance etc.: >On matters of content please refer to the FAQ maintainer.  4 Can you provide the URL for a NO FRAMES version too?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM2            ;J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:32:18 -0400e- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>I- Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001u( Message-ID: <3BBC80FC.B2B196B0@ohio.edu>  ` Those who have frames-capable browsers can see the link for the frames-free version in the upper< right corner.  For the others, you can go there directly, to  8             http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/data.htm  T but be patient, the whole FAQ is one 470 KByte file, so it may take a while to load!  #                                 RDP     & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  b > In article <3BBC7F49.6F50215A@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> writes:" > >The newest FAQ is up in HTML on. > >http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/faq.htm > >d< > >Please let me know about errors in sytax, appearance etc.< > >On matters of content please refer to the FAQ maintainer. >e6 > Can you provide the URL for a NO FRAMES version too? >E > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt >sK >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fierycK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:46:59 +0200_* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>- Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001t* Message-ID: <3BBC9283.7040808@tzora.co.il>   Sorry,3 The no-frames version (one _humungeous_ file) is inl DATA.HTM in the same directory.   8 If you do manage to load the frames version there should: be a pointer to the no-frames file in the upper right box.9 The no-frames version has a pointer to the frames versions! somewhere in the first few lines.    Mike  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:  b > In article <3BBC7F49.6F50215A@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> writes: > " >>The newest FAQ is up in HTML on - >>http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/faq.htme >>; >>Please let me know about errors in sytax, appearance etc.e; >>On matters of content please refer to the FAQ maintainer.o >> > 6 > Can you provide the URL for a NO FRAMES version too? >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs
 >            cL >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery K >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesC >  >      --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- ; Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not (
 even that.? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* / Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice d (home):(972)-2-99083377    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes a another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------** ------ GEEK CODE BLOCK (Version: 3.1)-----( GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++' N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t X- tv-- b+n DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@o* ---------- END GEEK CODE BLOCK  ----------   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:36:58 +0200i* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>- Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001o* Message-ID: <3BBC9E3A.3080106@tzora.co.il>  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:  Z > In article <3BBC80FC.B2B196B0@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:    E > FYI, the [No-Frame] "link" does not work with Netscape 3.03 on VMS.s     ??? Thats strange, because -5 (a) all the editing (and checking) was done on a VAX  & 4000-90, VMS V6.2 + Netscape 3.03, and; (b) The upper right frame source has not changed for a few f
 versions now.s  - Are you setup to disable JavaScript, perhaps?    Mike     > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM 
 >            mL >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery K >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesp >  >      -- sE ---------------------------------------------------------------------a; Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not n
 even that.? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*(/ Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice = (home):(972)-2-99083377    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes I another 80%"E --------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------ GEEK CODE BLOCK (Version: 3.1)-----( GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++' N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t X- tv-- b+  DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@)* ---------- END GEEK CODE BLOCK  ----------   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 17:08:57 GMT)= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)l- Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ - 2nd. October, 2001S0 Message-ID: <00A0305E.30E83BFA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <3BBC80FC.B2B196B0@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:a >Those who have frames-capable browsers can see the link for the frames-free version in the uppern= >right corner.  For the others, you can go there directly, to  >09 >            http://eisner.encompasserve.org/vms/data.htm  >tU >but be patient, the whole FAQ is one 470 KByte file, so it may take a while to load!  >i$ >                                RDP  5 Thanks... and it only took about 2-3 seconds to load.   C FYI, the [No-Frame] "link" does not work with Netscape 3.03 on VMS.w --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMS             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes"   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 01:00:16 -0700d From: axica@yahoo.com (Safir)l! Subject: Re: Pathworks on Win2000s= Message-ID: <e85d7983.0110040000.56e126b6@posting.google.com>t  { "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1002157254.24747.0.nnrp-08.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>...cL > An interesting issue using Pathworks on Win 2000. It seems that the normal= > method of getting licences is no longer supported underW2K./ > K > We cannot get DecNet over TCP/IP working as our license server has an old!K > TCPWare cludge of using 2 IP addresses, so need to resort to client based" > licensing. > # > Any ideas how this can be setup ?   * Do you really need to use Decnet over IP ?  N You can connect to the PW server using the native TCP/IP stack of windows 2000" Nothing to install on windows 2000  = On the VMS server, depending on the version of the PW server, I either you don't start the license server or you put some licenses in the(4 server-based group ---> you don't need client based.  4 On the other hand if you want client based licensing< you must install PAthworks 32 7.2 on the windows 2000 client( It includes the client license requester   htht   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:43:48 +0200: From: "Armin Leitner" <armin.leitner@dr-wagner.jet2web.at>! Subject: Re: Pathworks on Win2000eG Message-ID: <3bbc3d9f$0$33462$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>_  2 Safir <axica@yahoo.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:2 e85d7983.0110040000.56e126b6@posting.google.com...> > "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message> news:<1002157254.24747.0.nnrp-08.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>... >*6 > On the other hand if you want client based licensing> > you must install PAthworks 32 7.2 on the windows 2000 client* > It includes the client license requester >/ > hthu  + AFAIK Pathworks 32 7.2 does not run on W2K.    Armin0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:29:26 -0400* From: "Chris Moore" <moore_mc@hotmail.com>! Subject: Re: Pathworks on Win200002 Message-ID: <X70v7.36448$Z2.527735@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  J I am currently using an IBM Thinkpad w/Win2000 running Pathworks 7.2 QUITE effectively   E "Armin Leitner" <armin.leitner@dr-wagner.jet2web.at> wrote in message A news:3bbc3d9f$0$33462$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at..." >a4 > Safir <axica@yahoo.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:4 > e85d7983.0110040000.56e126b6@posting.google.com...@ > > "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message@ > news:<1002157254.24747.0.nnrp-08.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>... > > 8 > > On the other hand if you want client based licensing@ > > you must install PAthworks 32 7.2 on the windows 2000 client, > > It includes the client license requester > >  > > htha >p- > AFAIK Pathworks 32 7.2 does not run on W2K.d >s > Armin  >t >l   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 08:40:18 -0000(3 From: Doc.Cypher <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org>s Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??5 Message-ID: <20011004084018.5058.qmail@gacracker.org>t  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  A On 3 Oct 2001, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:fI >In article <cdPu7.28998$d44.6665004@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>, :6 >    "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> writes: >VD >> I'm looking for PGP for OpenVMS Alpha.  I've checked the VMS faq,F >> NAI's site and Deja News and had no luck locating a current versionA >> of this utility.  Most of the VMS links to PGP sites are dead.& >>  A >> The only thing I found is v2.6.3.  Is that a useable revision?  >a3 >   I'm using 2.6.3 and it seems to work just fine.P  E It is restricted to 1024 bit keys, this should be sufficient for mostaH purposes but UNIX and PC versions now offer 2048 bit keys (and sometimes higher).  J In addition, you will not be able to use Diffie-Hellman keys which are the/ default on a lot of modern PGP implementations.B  G GnuPG has been ported to VMS, but I am unaware of where you can get it.c     Doc. - -- o6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO7uYcsriC3SGiziTAQGSQAf8C2mu+IwBYp+ZqhHM4vizS3Qqt3NHRYqZ@ 3aIQ3vfbjF+Dp3Vus8YxDN+MgFO2xsNN1pI6z2aw3PnXj/Ph8TOwBAhsOdOudhIo@ xnCT3GDgKhsCIQtc8fThyWXQtNuSg+tBKxDXewQKoxH9W9MFzoxQCuyP4LmKPM5B@ wV7hxcOMspvpnA7EghWvkSqZvAI1M5FAW+ipQgWzePHkXNQf7jBaQFDOem+pD4nc@ r/rncRTs0684lToPTtb9nSnRUy4Pd8QBK57JxZiokl67akl6guguANQZ3CTwEERd8 W1QTZWAe5YUPxiPaAMLpY/WP5+zHthkDYJ1kFlga3rysiPKXDp8kDw== =zlUs  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----e   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 06:21:35 -0700;< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich) Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0110040521.120f7b2a@posting.google.com>   ~ "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<cdPu7.28998$d44.6665004@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>...C > I'm looking for PGP for OpenVMS Alpha.  I've checked the VMS faq, E > NAI's site and Deja News and had no luck locating a current versiond@ > of this utility.  Most of the VMS links to PGP sites are dead.   Tom,  D PGP on VMS is ancient history.  Look at the port of GnuPG that David% Mathog did -- the kit's available at:s  >  http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zip  D This is much better, much more current, and totally open/unlicensed.   AaronC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:31:35 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>s Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??$ Message-ID: <3bbc72ec$1@news.si.com>  H >GnuPG has been ported to VMS, but I am unaware of where you can get it.  7 Right where all the Gnu software is: www.gnu.org.  See:5  ' http://www.gnu.org/directory/gnupg.htmls --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comb= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent*< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:34:18 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>3 Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??$ Message-ID: <3bbc738f$1@news.si.com>  ( >http://www.gnu.org/directory/gnupg.html   Also http://www.gnupg.de/i -- fA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com.A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comw= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 08:05:39 -0700r' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>a Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??+ Message-ID: <3BBC7AC3.A82E3E64@caltech.edu>D   Aaron Sakovich wrote:_   > "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<cdPu7.28998$d44.6665004@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>...E > > I'm looking for PGP for OpenVMS Alpha.  I've checked the VMS faq,-G > > NAI's site and Deja News and had no luck locating a current versionhB > > of this utility.  Most of the VMS links to PGP sites are dead. >2 > Tom, >gF > PGP on VMS is ancient history.  Look at the port of GnuPG that David' > Mathog did -- the kit's available at:m >a@ >  http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zip  M Seqaxp is defunct, only the name lingers on as an alias to a Solaris machine.g% I kept that software though, it's at:s  E    http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/openvms/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zipA  F > This is much better, much more current, and totally open/unlicensed. >a  I Since I'm now living without VMS, it's also completely unsupported by me.j   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 17:25:24 +0200,* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??* Message-ID: <3bbc7f64$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  U In article <3BBC7AC3.A82E3E64@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:aJ >Since I'm now living without VMS, it's also completely unsupported by me.  
 Oh my god.1 Donate him an cheap/modern Alpha, please, ASAP !!t   :-)u   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888t< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:31:08 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??2 Message-ID: <0h%u7.1077$YP.25996@news.cpqcorp.net>  | In article <8af17fe1.0110040521.120f7b2a@posting.google.com>, alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich) writes:E :PGP on VMS is ancient history.  Look at the port of GnuPG that Davidc& :Mathog did -- the kit's available at: : ? : http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zipt  <   GPG kit pointers were included in the current OpenVMS FAQ.  E   If anyone finds updated pointers to PGP kits -- beyond what I have -F   included in the October FAQ -- please let me know.  The same requestC   holds for other GPG pointers, other (unrelated) URL updates, etc.-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 15:26:25 -0000M3 From: Doc.Cypher <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org>  Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??6 Message-ID: <20011004152625.17007.qmail@gacracker.org>  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  E On 4 Oct 2001, alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)M wrote:; >"Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote in message D >news:<cdPu7.28998$d44.6665004@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>...D >> I'm looking for PGP for OpenVMS Alpha.  I've checked the VMS faq,F >> NAI's site and Deja News and had no luck locating a current versionA >> of this utility.  Most of the VMS links to PGP sites are dead.o >u >Tom,j >:E >PGP on VMS is ancient history.  Look at the port of GnuPG that Davido& >Mathog did -- the kit's available at: >r? > http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zip   ) That link comes up as Forbidden for me :(r     Doc. - --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO7uYcsriC3SGiziTAQHDzAgArHwPLvcFoJxMVJR9bseX1p1EzA9nF9NM@ s8Nikufhnd4yyh1ZW3b/Sk3t/7g+2qDIRAr5WaHiLqsXkFvQsqeNy5b6mgE7hzIX@ oY0qsR07VcUUlftUJ233KJwLcaZHREU0zkLKhUCVxQD19aZNs7st+yg8eUgkz/Wi@ 2382bMeiOG1D1XWQFGB1KuQnMtvitUZxif4LRBOIm+DxdPGjfY44tYMRzPG3g4it@ mQKiqzUqkCBLLixOCKRqUUHGyBsRtUfmON7HaJUUzfM48vu/QF71qQVhx/DggI+P8 Qbv9Ptv/GS+PxMIVZhlF1eCiS/kM5e0xOwgSA5kDn7x5mqL4iB7Unw== =AsFpF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:27:29 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>I Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS??/ Message-ID: <3BBC8D8E.D73768CC@cableinet.co.uk>o   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > W > In article <3BBC7AC3.A82E3E64@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:=L > >Since I'm now living without VMS, it's also completely unsupported by me. >  > Oh my god.3 > Donate him an cheap/modern Alpha, please, ASAP !!  >  > :-)m >   e* Why? He'll probably just slap linux on it.   :-)  --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  -  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of R! my employers or service provider.j   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:25:26 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com7 Subject: Re: Problem with vms712_update-v0300 download.h/ Message-ID: <00256ADB.003EC1F0.00@quegw01.btyp>e  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    4 Thanks for all the offered solutions to the problem.  N I had downloaded what I thought was the correct file SEVEN times over the lastF couple of days, all of which produced the same end result as I posted.  O Today, I had another go, and to my surprise, rather than a 200+Kb file, I get a J 20+Mb file! This, as you will NOT be surprised to know, works as expected!  O Don't know where the problem was - seemed like I was getting just enough of theAN file for the DCX part to work when I ran it, but none of the meat of the file.  B Should have realised the compression couldn't have been THAT good!   Cheers   Steve Ss        ; "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> on 10/03/2001 09:24:00 PMu    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)"G From:      "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>, 3 October 2001, 9:24 p.m.-  . Re: Problem with vms712_update-v0300 download.        / Do you FTP directly from your OpenVMS computer?a  - using tcp/ip services?   - using other vendor?  F or do you FTP to a pc workstation first and then copy to OpenVMS etc.?  / Be certain to use binary instead of ASCII copy.    Jim Strehlow, JimS@data911.com Data911 Systems Manager- Alameda, CA-  / "Let them do their worst. We will do our best."E    - <Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com> wrote in message+) news:00256ADA.005453F4.00@quegw01.btyp...- >X, > Problem with vms712_update-v0300 download.I > When I download this file from the .au ftp site via the Compaq website,  the file- > I get has the following characteristics ...t   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 14:31:29 +02002* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)7 Subject: Re: Problem with vms712_update-v0300 download.c( Message-ID: <3bbc56a1@news.kapsch.co.at>  R In article <00256ADB.003EC1F0.00@quegw01.btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writes:M >Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazat5 >Thanks for all the offered solutions to the problem.. > O >I had downloaded what I thought was the correct file SEVEN times over the last G >couple of days, all of which produced the same end result as I posted.  > P >Today, I had another go, and to my surprise, rather than a 200+Kb file, I get aK >20+Mb file! This, as you will NOT be surprised to know, works as expected!a > P >Don't know where the problem was - seemed like I was getting just enough of theO >file for the DCX part to work when I ran it, but none of the meat of the file.- >-C >Should have realised the compression couldn't have been THAT good!r  - I think I posted exactly this some weeks ago.   E I also had a incomplete download (caused by my firewall !!) which the F DCX compression (RUN x.DCX_EXE) didn't detect and produced an unusableF PCSI kit which I then tried to install (I think it was TCPIP V5.1-152) and bounced.  F Some of the folks producing/offering VMS kits for download already didG listen to my (and surely some/many other posters here) suggestion for a-I self extract ZIP (because of better compression and platform independant)- packaging method.-  K Obviously the VMS engineering patch kits folks do still not belong to them.a   -- R< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888H< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:35:47 +0000 (UTC)9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> + Subject: Re: Public domain VMS clustering ?t- Message-ID: <9phojj$oo5$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>n    ClaudeVMS <unix@dev.null> wrote: : Hey Hey Hey!!!  F I assume you have at least one VMS Internals and Data Structures book?  A : VMS specific "stuff" is making it into the public domain. Go totG : http://www.freevms.org and you will see the projects I have uncoveredA  B Why not use Mach as a basis? I think someone is trying to do that.< (And maybe is thinking of running a F11*ACP (4.x-ish) there)  1 Some might say you may need a more detailed plan?   4 : that are in fact moving VMS features into Linux!!!  $ Do not forget ftp.lp.se::[.free-vms]: It has a string library (descriptors!) among other things.   What about security features?5 (See classifications atm6 http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.html)- What about using http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/?4F (But as a start, cutting out /tmp and using string descriptors without, null-terminations will probably help a lot?)  
 -Roar Thronsi   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 06:59:05 -0700/< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)" Subject: Re: Question on VMS Virus= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0110040559.1ca80847@posting.google.com>s  Q david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<9pcjm6$k67$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...t > = > Could you give a pointer to where these VMS hack sites are.  >  > David Webb  5  http://www.phreak.org/archives/security/faqs/vax.txtf  B It's dated (with all the standard implications and disclaimers dueD dated material), but this is a common file that is the root of other docs on the net.   Aaron    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:29:28 +01002 From: "Atkinson, Robert" <RATKINSON@tbs-ltd.co.uk> Subject: RE: Ram Disk for VMS?I Message-ID: <9114940C5E0FD31186950008C7B9A602B68AD8@coexch.tbs-ltd.co.uk>n   Fabio,> 	although I do program in many languages, we do not have a 'C'J compiler on our Alpha, or anyone who can write in 'C'. I would not be ableI to give much help to this group, so I think it's not right that I try and0 organize it!  L I may, however, try and get some interest going in some circles and see what can be acheived.   Rob.   -----Original Message-----5 From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]e Sent: 03 October 2001 18:00t To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn Cc: Robert Atkinsone Subject: Re: Ram Disk for VMS?     I am not a developer but...I  5 Why dont you create an OpenVMS Development Task Force- ?-6 There are a lot of people here developing in different6 ways ... This is a newgroup and mainly: it is a group.     Regardsw   Fc=20i4 --- Robert Atkinson <ratkinson@tbs-ltd.co.uk> wrote:1 > > I took a look at GKN's RAMDRIVER again and it0! > shouldn't be too much effort=20e3 > > to port it to Alpha.  I'll take a stab at it ifj > nobody objects.  >=205 > It's a shame some more of the older VAX stuff isn't." > ported - anyone wanna volunteer?     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DiL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dw F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil0 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.p http://phone.yahoo.com    D ********************** N O T I C E *********************************  F This information transmitted is intended only for the person or entityG to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged1D material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,E or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by personse< or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.  G If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete allV copies of the message.  F This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept forG the presence of computer viruses, however we cannot guarantee that thisf# message is free from such problems.&  F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:14:18 +0100t4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>) Subject: Re: Reset error account on Alphaf8 Message-ID: <sg6ort0rk8qii0v2kt2v0u52gnmakja3ua@4ax.com>  @ On Wed, 03 Oct 2001 16:54:25 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:e  I >>Lest you think I am pulling you up, your own supplied sda/delta hack is C >>one of the marked messages in the cov folder in my newsreader :-)w >  >:)i > ' >... and have you had need to use it?  P   Need, no.  Occasion, yes ;-)     	JohnB   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:19:58 GMTu= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)Q) Subject: RE: Reset error account on AlphaL0 Message-ID: <00A0303E.3359CE90@SendSpamHere.ORG>  v In article <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHOECLFLAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>, arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> writes:L >I tried that and it has crashed every single one of my Alphas .. careful :)   ZDEC crashed your system?    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             PJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesP   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:18:02 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com) Subject: Re: Reset error account on Alpha 4 Message-ID: <C2256ADB.005EC166.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  	 Hi Jilly,.   Is it 1.2 or 1-003?  ======================= ,         .TITLE  ZDEC Zero Device Error Count         .IDENT  /1.2/t     ;++a     ;d     ; Title:/     ;   ZDEC.MAR - Zero-out device error count.p     ;W     ; Version:
     ;   1-003i =======================c   I get this error on V7.1-2   =======================- $ macro/list zdec-  <         $MPDEVDEF       ; Symbols for multipath information. ^t) %AMAC-E-UNRECSTMT, unrecognized statementc9 at line number 78 in file SYS$COMMON:[SYSMAINT]ZDEC.MAR;1o           .END    ZDEC ^d; %AMAC-E-PREVERROR, previous errors prevent further analysish: at line number 416 in file SYS$COMMON:[SYSMAINT]ZDEC.MAR;1   =======================h
 or without =======================  $ link/map/full/sysexe zdec & %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 4 undefined symbols:* %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         DEV$V_MPDEV_MEMBER- %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SUD$PS_MPDEV_NEXT_UCBt0 %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SUD$PS_MPDEV_PRIMARY_UCB" %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         UCB$PS_SUD8 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol UCB$PS_SUD referenced+         in psect $LINKAGE offset %X00000120 ;         in module ZDEC file SYS$COMMON:[SYSMAINT]ZDEC.OBJ;2.@ %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol DEV$V_MPDEV_MEMBER referenced+         in psect $LINKAGE offset %X00000150e;         in module ZDEC file SYS$COMMON:[SYSMAINT]ZDEC.OBJ;2iF %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol SUD$PS_MPDEV_PRIMARY_UCB referenced+         in psect $LINKAGE offset %X00000158v;         in module ZDEC file SYS$COMMON:[SYSMAINT]ZDEC.OBJ;2tC %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol SUD$PS_MPDEV_NEXT_UCB referenced"+         in psect $LINKAGE offset %X00000160t;         in module ZDEC file SYS$COMMON:[SYSMAINT]ZDEC.OBJ;2, =======================0	 Comments?aL I assume the statements labeled "##vax" need to be exchanged for a VAX, yes?          2 jilly@clarityconnect.com on 10/03/2001 04:23:57 PM  * Please respond to jilly@clarityconnect.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com8 cc:6* Subject:  Re: Reset error account on Alpha        ,         .TITLE  ZDEC Zero Device Error Count         .IDENT  /1.2/      ;++e     ;j     ; Title:/     ;   ZDEC.MAR - Zero-out device error count.      ;.     ; Version:
     ;   1-003s     ;e     ; Facility:,      ;   System Management Tools.     ;o     ; Abstract: C     ;   This program zeros-out the device error count stored in thetA     ;   UCB for a particular device. This is useful when you wishp5     ;   reset this value without booting the machine.S     ;m7     ;   THIS PROGRAM IS UNSUPPORTED AND PROVIDED AS IS,t     ;   USE AT OWN RISK.     ;a     ;   Building sequence:     ; !     ;           $ macro/list zdece+     ;           $ link/map/full/sysexe zdec      ;      ;   Calling sequence:s     ;e,     ;           $ ZDEC := $mydev:[mydir]ZDEC*     ;           $ ZDEC [/OVERRIDE]  device   [snip]%         .SBTTL  Symbols, Macros, Data0  -         .LIBRARY        /SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLB/u   [snip]<         $MPDEVDEF       ; Symbols for multipath information.   [snip]  '     ;## vax     CALLS   #3,G^LIB$TPARSE E         CALLS   #3,G^LIB$TABLE_PARSE    ; Alpha version of LIB$TPARSE, [snip]   --H Jilly     - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY@      - jilly@clarityconnect.com               - Brett Bodine fan;      - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com            - since 1975 or son0      - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:08:51 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>"H Subject: Re: Sales Office Appearances (was: Compaq revenue goes down...)8 Message-ID: <119ortgf2v4dqv6oueo60frf0utn4rpojd@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 03 Oct 2001 20:36:51 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff. Hoffman) wrote:e   >1 >1J >  Put another way, what would you think if you visited a sales office forJ >  a computer vendor and found a wide variety of older gear out front, andJ >  older gear sporting various color schemes and operating system versions  E I'd think here's a company with reliable kit which will serve me wello for years to come.  J >  and vendor labels, etc.  (Ignoring discussions around meeting rooms and+ >  access to hot desks for travelers, etc.)c  A Would that be concentrative, scheduled, touchdown, spontaneous or F formal meeting rooms  and with or without nomadic tables and migration chairs?-  ! Come on Hoff.  The memo posted at-E http://www.theinquirer.net/03100104.htm can't really be defended even.$ if some of the underlying logic can.   >-O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------fO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    -O > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------gM >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com0   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:34:20 +0100-) From: Andrew Harrison <andrew@uk.sun.com>h+ Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user basea* Message-ID: <3BBC574C.8678DF2A@uk.sun.com>   cjt & trefoil wrote:   > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:> > >l7 > > "Dan Foster" <dsf@frontiernet.net> wrote in messagea3 > > news:9p966a$2gau$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net...i0 > > > In article <3B713EBB.CDA83D5E@uk.sun.com>,8 > > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:L > > > >> some time next year or early 2003, EV7 is likely to.  When will Sun
 > > figure, > > > >> out how to make a cache that works? > > > >> > > > >A< > > > >We did some time ago. The ecache on E10Ks and smaller> > > > >UltraII based machiens has been modified. This happened > > > >late last year. > > >lG > > > Hmm. From published reports that I've read, Sun went as far as to7G > > > 'request' that early sites with the ecache fixes do so under NDA?3 > > >7> > > > If true (in whatever form), that sure wasn't impressive. > >EM > > I reported this matter a couple of years ago, back when disgruntled UE10KxJ > > users set up a "Disgruntled UE10K Users" Web site. Jaikumar Vijayan atK > > ComputerWorld ran the story in midsummer 2000. Sun was not amused about : > > being outed, but they ultimately resolved the problem. > >  > > >hI > > > My understanding is that it took Sun quite a while to get an handlecG > > > on the whole thing - admittedly I still don't know what the causebH > > > is to this day, but it's sounding like a general chip design issue- > > > that just didn't get caught in testing.h > > K > > The cache in the 400MHz and 440MHz UltraSparc II CPUs didn't have erroreM > > correction capability. As noted about, the more recent CPUs do not suffer  > > from this deficiency.H >lP > That in and of itself might not have been serious, as I understand it, had oneQ > of their suppliers not produced cache that was especially susceptible to cosmics6 > rays, and in a year of exceptional sunspot activity. >   B I don't know about the Sunspot activity, however one of the ecacheA suppliers had a much, much lower failure rate than the other due.-       >6 > Murphy's law.u   Regardse Andrew Harrisonl Enterprise IT Architectc   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:17:55 -0400, From: "Rod Prince" <prince_at_wserv_dot_com>( Subject: UCX FTP over WIN2k VPN problems/ Message-ID: <1002212717.303813@night.wserv.com>u  I I am using a Win2K box to establish a VPN connection to a remote site (10rJ miles away).  I have configed the local Alpha (500au, VMS 7.2-1, UCX 5.0A,F ECO 3) to route the 10.114.0.0 traffic to the WIN2k Box, which in turnG routes to the remote site. Yea, I know there is probably better ways topL establish a VPN, but I don't get to pick, the remote MIS department controlsK the incoming line, and they only use/support Windows VPN clients, and thats  they end of the discussion.t  L With the WIN2K VPN up and connected, Telnet & ping work great from the localL AXP to any of the remote AXP & VAX's.  FTP will connect but can not transferF files.  I can verify that it is connected, with any number of CD & DIRE commands.  I see the expected files.  When I enter a GET, PUT or SEND I command, FTP attempts to open a data connection to the WIN2K VPN address.  Why is it doing this?h   This is what I see (on the AXP)a  
 $ftp black- 220 black FTP server (version v4.1-12) Ready.S Connected to BLACK.  Name+ 331 Username "username" requires a passwordr	 Password:w 230 User logged in FTP> zip.zip 200 TYPE set to IMAGEe 200 PORT command successfule6 150 Opening data connection for zip.zip (n.n.n.n:1033)C %SYSTEM-F-CONNECFAIL, connect to network object timed-out or failedt    H After looking at things for a bit, I figured out that the n.n.n.n is theH address the WIN2K box has for its VPN connection.  At this point I don'tL really know what to blame.  My first reaction is that the FTP client is justC plain wrong since it clearly states its trying to talk to the wrong J interface, but then maybe the WIN2K routing software is not quite correct,F either way I can't being to understand why the client would connect toK system A and then try to open a connection on different system.  Now I know J that the FTP client is connected because I can issue CD & DIR commands andH see the expected files on the remote system, I just can't transfer files :-(.    
 Rod Prince princ@wserv_dot_comm C&S Software, Inc.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 08:03:53 -0700p/ From: on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles)o Subject: Re: VAX 7000's < Message-ID: <b2faac46.0110040703.a50cfae@posting.google.com>   Steve,  =          I've posted multiple calls to various support.  I'velA contacted everybody I can think of in our regional area, and I've E contacted Howard Elias - Senior VP of Business Critical systems.  The C standard procedure is to send you a letter saying that you have onex' year until that machine is end of life.n  C With our environment there is NO WAY that one year is enough time. .B Through talking with Mr. Elias Compaq agreed to 15 months notice. ; That's still not enough time.  We run our ENTIRE productiony? environment off this two node cluster, and we have THOUSANDS of C applications running here.  We just can't jump to any platform even  alpha just like that.i  C         I used to be in the CSC -  and I know all the canned CompaqE answers.   Rick          l hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<xtGu7.1017$YP.25359@news.cpqcorp.net>...G > Our engineering and build clusters (for both OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS  < >   Alpha) incorporate multiple VAX 7000 series boxes, FWIW. >  > > > Rick Nickles" <on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com> wrote in message < >    news:b2faac46.0110030603.18ac43a1@posting.google.com... > J > : I'm trying to find out what the installed base of the VAX 7000 line isL > : currently to try to figure out an approximate time that this machine is  > : going to go end of life. > G >   That's really a question for the Compaq hardware services folks to nI >   answer, since they have the spares and the contracts and the details.o > H >   There are typically customer advisories provided well ahead of when @ >   systems start to transition to end-of-hardware-service-life. > J >   If you expect to need hardware support over a very long term, I would F >   be looking at maintaining a cache of spares locally, and at local D >   maintenance capabilities including the Compaq Assisted Services H >   program, and at negotiating for extended support contracts with the F >   Compaq hardware support folks.  Again, this if you expect to need G >   hardware support for these systems over a very long term -- longer  @ >   than services folks will typically be maintaining the boxes. > I >   In addition, I would also look at what is involved at migrating your mJ >   applications to OpenVMS Alpha or (depending on your schedule and your I >   requirements) to OpenVMS on IA-64.  This is an obvious alternative to : >   the long-term maintenance of older hardware platforms. > J >   NONE OF THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO IMPLY THAT HARDWARE SERVICES FOR THIS M >   PLATFORM WILL BE ENDING SOON.  (I don't know that.)  The hardware supportaN >   decision is something that the Compaq services folks decide, based on the L >   availability of and the "burn rate" of spares and based on the business L >   considerations around continued hardware support.  Again, I do not know J >   the schedule and the plans -- if any, of course -- for the end of the J >   VAX 7000 series service.  (Nor do I know the platform installed base.) >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:34:03 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VAX 7000'so2 Message-ID: <%b0v7.1080$YP.26215@news.cpqcorp.net>  n In article <b2faac46.0110040703.a50cfae@posting.google.com>, on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) writes:  D :With our environment there is NO WAY that one year is enough time. C :Through talking with Mr. Elias Compaq agreed to 15 months notice. 2  :That's still not enough time.    D   One year (or longer) advance notice of some future end-of-service <   life for the particular system model(s) involved, that is.  = :                                We run our ENTIRE productiona@ :environment off this two node cluster, and we have THOUSANDS ofD :applications running here.  We just can't jump to any platform even :alpha just like that.  A   It appears that your current approach involves the need to havetC   external hardware service -- is one year enough time to spool up DA   your own maintenance program?  (If not, I'd certainly consider 3D   starting some related activities -- such as acquiring and caching ?   of spare parts -- ahead, should you be considering continued tB   operations of these systems after the end-of-service life.  End D   of service life does not mean that the systems will stop working, G   though it means that various parts will be more difficult to acquire.cD   Other related activities, such as the acquisition of the hardware G   diagnostics and of staff maintenance training can likely be resolved     within the interval.)n  D   I will assume you are already looking at and already starting the B   groundwork for a migration to another (newer) platform.  eg: to @   OpenVMS Alpha or to some of the other and obviously available    platform choices.n  C   I will assume you are also considering what will be involved witheG   self-maintenance and (as mentioned) with the acquisition of your own *G   cache of spare parts and your own access to hardware repair services.-A   (Either via the assisted services program, or via other means.)i1   Or with the acquisition of third-party service.:  @   I will also assume you have considered what fallbacks and whatE   procedures and hardware auxillaries are needed, should the primary aC   computer system(s) be unavailable.  Redundant systems or service kC   bureaus or a couple of spare systems used for parts salvage, etc.t  E   Further, I will assume you have done what you believe is necessary  F   to reduce the exposure to common causes of damage to electronics -- D   events such as power spikes and sags, roof leaks, fires, and HVAC    failures.M  D :        I used to be in the CSC -  and I know all the canned Compaq	 :answers.s  G   I have not received training on the "canned Compaq answers" here.  I >E   am operating on what I know about running and upgrading systems and E   applications, on the typical and historical engineering and supporttI   practices (both DIGITAL/Compaq and based on my experience from (way :-)uH   back when I was a customer), and on what I would personally recommend.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:12:05 +02007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>=# Subject: RE: VAX disaster toleranceeO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6856@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   D I think that there is no market for new VAXen, because why do you=20< want an 32 bit processor if you can have 64 bits processors.  G But there is still a market for support for the VAXen and refurbished =  VAXen=20A for the migration of the old VAXsoftware to a little bit faster =t
 processors or=20u# an extra member in a vaxcluster.=20Z  C The license for support on VAXen and selling refurbished VAXen is =o
 already=20 given away by Compaq.=20  A But maybe it would not be so bad idea to sell the license and the=# knowhow to build VAX processors.=20== I don't think that anyone wants to make new VAXprocessors,=20eD but the patents around the VAX have still some golden eyes in it.=20   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]L% > Sent: woensdag 3 oktober 2001 18:55- > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComU% > Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerance$ >=20 >=20
 > A VAX... >=20/ > Why Compaq dont give the VAX license to be=20E3 > built by another vendor ? If the VAXes are reallyD. > needed in the market. Example: Mentec should" > build a 1U VAX for rackmount.=20 >=203 > Today an iPaq has much more power in VUPs than=20D" > the last VAX launched years ago. >=20 > I suggest a VAXpaq :-) >=202 > I believe all the VAX users should migrate to=205 > Alpha or Itanium.... but if they say they cant ok !F > Lets believe in them ...=20_1 > But is dangerous for the companies to stay withs1 > old hardware and old parts, refurbishing boardsM. > etc ...  Ok, ok you know what are you doing. >=20 >=20	 > Regardse >=20 > FC=20  >=20 >=207 > --- "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>@ > wrote:4 > > You can as easy as replacing an alpha with a new4 > > alpha, replacing a VAX with a bigger faster VAX. > >=20 > > Done that, been there. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > > JF Mezei wrote:C8 > > > > That is the problem isn't it ? You don't want to > > waste=20 > > > money replacingM5 > > > > hardware that still does the job just for theo > > sake of=20 > > > having the latest. But/ > > > > then, you also don't want to get a rudeb > > awakening because=20 > > > you can no longer 6 > > > > get replacement machines after a disaster even > > though you=20e > > > didn't realise that / > > > > problem as your configuration was still  > > supported. > > >=20# > > > Exactly. These days you don't # > > > need an identical replacement % > > > (unless you are the military or & > > > run a nuclear power plant etc.). > > >=20& > > > Most businesses could replace=20# > > > an Alpha with a newer Alpha - ) > > > there are not that many specialised  > > > interfaces any more. > > >=20& > > > However, when you are running=20+ > > > on an architecture that can no longerY* > > > be produced economically (e.g. VAX -( > > > I won't include PDP-11 since there& > > > are compatibles available!) then' > > > you need to at least have a plan!E > > >=20
 > > > Antonio  > > >=20 > > > --=20  > > >=20 > > > ---------------m3 > > > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgj > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dr > =oI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil, > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > =mI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=w =3D=3D >=204 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?5 > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.a > http://phone.yahoo.com >=20   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:42:10 +02007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>d# Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerancedO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6857@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>'  K I agree with Recover-all is not a business continuity service, because they  don't include yearly> testing of the continuity, but it more then a financial thing.K The response time is 72-hours to place (other) equipment at the location of,
 the customer.c  ( That is what compaq tells at their site.< http://www.compaq.com/services/available/av_recover_all.html    K I don't what to believe what compaq tells on their site or what people tell' in this newsgroup.F But if I'm the only one that responses on the included message, I have' believe that what is told here is true.-   				   Jeroen van DijkF Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl      > -----Original Message-----: > From: Steve Reece [mailto:SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk]# > Sent: dinsdag 2 oktober 2001 1:35o > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComS% > Subject: Re: VAX disaster toleranceo >  > E > Not sure if anyone has respondedto this or not yet so here goes....4 > @ > It's important to bear in mind what the aim of Recoverall is.  >  It is NOT? > a business continuity service or disaster recovery service.  j
 > There is not< > provision within Recoverall to have a mobile machine room  > rolling out of> > Compaq within 4 hours to get your site up and running again.@ > What Recoverall does provide is an insurance policy to get youC > equivalent kit or cash for the kit that you've lost in a disastere+ > scenario.  i.e. it's an insurance policy.W > ? > Payout on Recoverall can be up to 90 days after the disaster.? >  > Steve. >  >  > Keith Parris wrote:  > > > > > For those who are really serious about disaster recovery,  > Digital (andD > > now Compaq) sell a service called Recover-All, which promises to> > > replace equipment lost in a disaster.  This service isn't 
 > included insG > > a regular hardware service agreement; with that, they only agree tohA > > service the equipment if it breaks, not to replace it if it'si > > destroyed by a disaster.G > > -------------------------------------------------------------------rG > > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:uG > > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/Oy >  > -- h@ > "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were  > rent likeiG > a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. C > Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"g' > 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 04:00:33 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancee@ Message-ID: <20011004110033.58871.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>   Well  3 I just gave an example of a 1U VAX - I was thinking,4 in the possibilities to integrate in the same mother1 board, ethernet, scsi, and all the I/O interfaces  needed for VAXes.i       Regardst   FC=20 6 --- "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >=20 > > A VAX... > >=20. > > Why Compaq dont give the VAX license to be5 > > built by another vendor ? If the VAXes are reallyr0 > > needed in the market. Example: Mentec should( > > build a 1U VAX for rackmount. [snip] >=204 > Well, a VAXstation 4000/VLC is tad bigger than 1U, > and needs shelf, > but... >=20 > --=200 > David J. Dachterau > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ >=20* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D,L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilP fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DW  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/mon= th.o# http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:21:01 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com- Subject: VMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 7.3.3 and 7.3.4T/ Message-ID: <00256ADB.003E598B.00@quegw01.btyp>a    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc: L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  $ VMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 7.3.3 and 7.3.4    M Is anyone running any combination of the above? If so, have they had the okayo1 from Oracle, or are you running it 'unsupported'?t   Cheers   Steve Sc     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.  O Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT. Registered 0 in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.  M Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1a@ 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:06:20 +0900& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> Subject: vms files on floppy+ Message-ID: <9phipd$mm9$1@news2.kornet.net>l  K Does anyone know how to create/backup vms text files on a floppy and use itg' on a PC either running win NT or 95/98?oG Does it have to be init in a special way?  I also noticed on one of our H application program allowed us to save data in a MS DOS format.  Does itE mean that I have to format on a PC first before save it to this disk?o Thank you in advance Paul   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:23:20 +02002 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>  Subject: Re: vms files on floppyG Message-ID: <3bbc61fb$0$59686$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   7 "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> schrieb im Newsbeitraga% news:9phipd$mm9$1@news2.kornet.net...rJ > Does anyone know how to create/backup vms text files on a floppy and use it) > on a PC either running win NT or 95/98?kI > Does it have to be init in a special way?  I also noticed on one of ourdJ > application program allowed us to save data in a MS DOS format.  Does itG > mean that I have to format on a PC first before save it to this disk?a > Thank you in advance > Paul >e >l  E .... a long, long time ago there used to be a utility called exchangeeL which - as far as I remember supported this - don't know if it still exists.   Ren   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:08:38 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: vms files on floppy- Message-ID: <0033000037302962000002L022*@MHS>    =0ALook for MGPCX.  . It will allow you to read/write VMS files to a DOS-formatted floppy.h  / If it's not on the freeware CD, it's on the webs4 somewhere. (Is the MadGoat archives at Process now?)  $ Thanks again, Hunter, it's a keeper.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs* > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 9:39 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET" > Subject: RE: vms files on floppy >e >m9 > "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag ' > news:9phipd$mm9$1@news2.kornet.net... = > > Does anyone know how to create/backup vms text files on ae > floppy and use > it+ > > on a PC either running win NT or 95/98?o= > > Does it have to be init in a special way?  I also noticedh > on one of our ; > > application program allowed us to save data in a MS DOSn > format.  Does it> > > mean that I have to format on a PC first before save it to > this disk? > > Thank you in advance > > Paul > >v > >a >rH > .... a long, long time ago there used to be a utility called exchange=  = > which - as far as I remember supported this - don't know ifS > it still exists. >M > Ren? >=   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2001 14:02:40 GMTn) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)s  Subject: Re: vms files on floppy' Message-ID: <9phq60$rsq$1@joe.rice.edu>n  % David Lee (phongle@kornet.net) wrote:oJ : Does anyone know how to create/backup vms text files on a floppy and use, : it on a PC either running win NT or 95/98?I : Does it have to be init in a special way?  I also noticed on one of ournJ : application program allowed us to save data in a MS DOS format.  Does itG : mean that I have to format on a PC first before save it to this disk?V : Thank you in advance : Paul      MGPCX%       Version:      V2.1, 29-OCT-1997o<       Description:  Read and write MS-DOS floppies under VMS7       Author:       MadGoat Software (Madison, Goatley)-      Architecture: VAX,AXP  > Available via anonymous ftp from ftp.process.com as MGPCX.ZIP; cd to [.VMS-FREEWARE.FILESERV]  ? See this article why ftp's from a browser can be a "bad thing":.  1   http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.54.html#subj6n&   The Risks Digest Volume 21: Issue 54  '   Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:43:09 -0700o'   From: Scott Renfro <scott@renfro.org>o=   Subject: Did download failures increase Code Red's success?   4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:28:51 +0100f( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?) Message-ID: <3BBC6413.F747F305@127.0.0.1>e   Bob Kaplow wrote: M > In my case this is kind of boring, since this disk has a cluster size of 9,vH > there  isn't anything in the first three buckets. This distribution isM > pretty typical, but IF I had a cluster size of 1, you'd probably see rathertH > than more files in each bucket as the size got smaller, a peak at someN > point. The peak is the place it was recommended to set your cluster size to. > N > For example if the three zeros above were  983, 3762, and 8219 then the peakL > value 8219 would correspond to the 4-7 block size. That would be the valueI > I'd set my cluster size to. Sometimes you'll find a disk with a bimodalsI > distribution, especially if you've got very different workloads storinghD > files on the disk. I used to see that with SAS, where both command: > procedures and huge data sets existed onthe same device.   Bob,  H Thank you for that, it's obvious now. I guess it would be nice to have aA program which you could move the file size ranges into meaningful D cluster size boundaries, and have "offshoot" information which would report the 'wasted' space.  + Perhaps I just want the moon on a stick :-)t   Future version of DFU? -- m( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:35:09 +0100i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?) Message-ID: <3BBC658D.533F6190@127.0.0.1>l   Bob Kaplow wrote:cI > > Somewhere in the back of my mind i remember something about higher IOrN > > rates due to smaller cluster sizes. It must be possible to find an optimumK > > but it's probably not just 'the smaller the better'. I would seek for ayL > > somewhat larger size that can hold most of your files in one cluster butC > > doesn't have its drawbacks in performance for the larger files. P > > Probably the cluster size of 9 blocks isn't bad at all in the given example. > H > High IO rate due to small cluster sizes would mean fragmented files. IM > prevent that by setting extent to 1024 on most of my volumes. And of coursekM > by running a defragger. My nasty 36 GB disk with over a million files has adC > cluster size of 4 and is NOT badly fragmented. It does have otherqM > application induced problems with a few HUGE directories that I'm currentlyo0 > beating folks over the head with a 2x4 to fix.  G In a former life I deliberate picked a cluster size of 8 due to the way G the database engine talked to its datafiles, it had a fixed size buffer D just a few bytes less than 8*512. I guess this is a specialised case though, but it worked a treat.  M > Well, it *IS* SYS$SYSDEVICE! The big files include INDEXF.SYS, STARLET.OLB,-L > ERRLOG.SYS, ACCOUNTNG.DAT, OPERATOR.LOG, and some riff-raff that I need to% > clean up when I get a round tuit...:  F Oh!, I've got one of those! [round tuit] I'll scan it and put it on my= website, but I've never had the time to use it. Its sat on myr& Alphastation under a pile of post-its. -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.552 ************************