1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 16 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 575       Contents: Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? RE: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? RE: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: Alphaserver 1000a , Re: Blast from past: shape of things to come$ Re: CETS presentations now availableB Re: CETS presentations now available (only if you ignore security)B Re: CETS presentations now available (only if you ignore security)  Re: CLD, how to expand keywords?0 Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk Re: DEC VAX Users C Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?) C Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?)  Re: Free IMAP4 server for UCX ? & Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& RE: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors0 Re: Ingres (Was: Re: jobs? ingres vax/vms cobol) Re: Installed VMS Images( Re: Microsoft Security Slipup of the Day  Re: Need VMS 1.5 C-Kermit binary) Preferred port for cluster communications - Re: Preferred port for cluster communications  Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs? Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs? Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs? Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs? Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs?, Re: Scott McNealy has no respect for Alpha's Re: Socket problem-URGENT  Re: syslog client  Re: VAX 6400 is down Re: VMS & Unix connectivity  Re: VMS & Unix connectivity  Re: VMS & Unix connectivity / Re: VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 produces ugly PCSI crash / Re: VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 produces ugly PCSI crash 3 Which source file was compiled to make this object? 7 Re: Which source file was compiled to make this object?  X programming tools (UIL etc)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? ? Message-ID: <20011015175254.5299.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>   - There is no need to develop a FreeVMS with=20   the arriving of Itanium Systems.  2 Should be good to have cheap licenses for OVMS and( develop. tools for these new systems.=20  2 With Alpha - I never understood why to control the6 licenses if you couldnt run this OS without an Alpha -5 a rare machine. And why the OS was / is so expensive. , OVMS and RDB should be bundled with Alpha...  4 But now with Itanium.... the OS and applicattions=20 can be sponsored.    Why reinvent the wheel ?  / FreeVMS is good to learn the internals of OVMS, - just this. Nobody thinks it will become a new  Linux.4 Should be better to integrate some FreeVMS functions inside an Linux....    Regards    FC=20   1 --- Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  wrote:2 > Nah.  We're not threatened.  We all know that to > implement a complete% > replacement that is bug-for-bug and * > feature-for-feature identical is next to& > impossible, it's just too big a job. >=20. > Now you can subset things, and try to define! > something other than "VMS" that 8 > you want to create, and perhaps make it achievable.=20 > Certainly the system, > services are well documented.  The library > interfaces.  The file system.  > Even DCL.  >=20" > But in the end, it won't be VMS. >=204 > Lots of people have said that if you took the core > of VMS (sort-of the 5 > single node, non-file system, non-cluster portions)  > and tried to rewrite it 0 > without compatability, and to fix some of it's > limitations, you would end up  > with the NT kernel.  >=202 > You could certainly take the NT kernel, sans the > Windows stuff, and use it 5 > as a kernel to build a replacement for the VMS user  > interfaces on top of it. >=20 >=20 >=20# > Keith Parris wrote in message ... 5 > >hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote  > in message/ > news:<_11x7.243$RL6.1689@news.cpqcorp.net>... 6 > >>   We asked about open-sourcing OpenVMS at the San > Diego sympoisium and5 > >>   rather surprisingly got negative feedback from  > the customers.  (I would5 > >>   not have believed it had I not been sitting in  > the same room.)  > > 3 > >I attended that same Birds-of-a-Feather session,  > and although I recall 2 > >a concern that open access to VMS sources might > make it easier for3 > >crackers, removing some of the "security through  > obscurity" VMS in 6 > >theory might enjoy today, the overall response from > the group seemed4 > >to be quite positive, as I recall.  Benefits were > seen in terms of6 > >education, allowing more people to learn more about
 > VMS and VMS 3 > >Internals (which would make it possible for more  > people to find (and 6 > >even possibly suggest fixes for) bugs in VMS), plus > the potential for 2 > >someone to take the effort to port VMS to other > architectures (folks, > >were thinking IA-32 or maybe AMD's 64-bit > architecture at the time, 4 > >not IA-64).  One option discussed was that Compaq > might consider6 > >releasing a CD with a buildable version of VMS code > (which would1 > >presumably contain at least a workable, usable  > subset of the full VMS' 
 > >features).  > > 6 > >I can imagine that folks from VMS Engineering could > come out of the 4 > >same BOF with very different impressions, perhaps > even feeling quite4 > >threatened by the prospect of an open-source VMS, > in several aspects, 
 > >including: 5 > >o  Potential loss of control over the direction of 
 > development 6 > >efforts, or potential splintering of VMS directions > and focus, and the5 > >potential for multiple competing VMS distributions  > as we see in the > >Linux space, > >o  Giving away trade secrets for software > algorithms that were never1 > >patented, or making it easier to evade patents 1 > >o  Ability for people to run VMS in commercial  > applications without4 > >buying software licenses or hardware from Compaq, > when such sales pay 1 > >VMS engineers' salaries and justify their jobs  > > 5 > >A compromise that might help a lot at this time of  > uncertainty in the2 > >user base (due to the Alpha annoucement and the > planned HP6 > >acquisition) might be for Compaq to set up a source > escrow arrangement1 > >for VMS to ensure that if Compaq, HP, or their  > successors ever decide4 > >to stop VMS development in the future (or sell it > to Microsoft like 1 > >Alpha to Intel), that the complete sources and  > build environment would 4 > >become available immediately under an open source > license at that 1 > >point in time.  That would provide significant  > reassurance to VMS3 > >users that VMS would survive even the worst-case  > scenario users might > >imagine.  > D >-------------------------------------------------------------------3 > >Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org |  > VMS consulting on:+ > >Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals,  > Performance, Storage & I/O >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:03:22 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? + Message-ID: <3BCB24EA.C254703E@caltech.edu>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:  ) > . Comparing ftp to COPY?  Unix can copy G > from machine to machine just like VMS does, You don't need to use ftp A > if the tha mchines share a security model (just like with VMS.)   E I agree with some of what you say, but ftp for COPY isn't much (if at 	 all) off.   I VMS/RMS/DECNET allow the same file syntax to be used transparently across 
 nodes.  So doing:  . $ program "access string"node::device:filename  N works pretty much without regard to what "program" is.   If proxies are set up
 you can leave N off the access string too.  Which makes COPY the usual choice for moving files from one VMS node to another. L However, on Unix "cp" cannot  normally move files from one node to another . cp can move across nodesL if NFS is used, just as COPY can move files across nodes without an explicitM node:: if those nodes are in a cluster and the disks are cross mounted. While L I think that rcp is probably the closest program in this regard to COPY, ftp, will often be the tool of choice - depending* on exactly what it is that you want to do.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:17:30 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> ' Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation? : Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAOECDDLAA.dallen@nist.gov>  N 	Well I've had several years experience in a CDC shop where "local mods" whereU common and vendor supported. I can only shudder at the thought of anyone recommending 9 such practices for anything other than experimental uses.   K 	The aforementioned shop lagged WAY behind on getting the local mods rolled S into the current release of the OS and was often faced with internal changes to the S OS that were incompatible with their local engineering marvels! A simple upgrade of V the OS required literally man years of effort to test (and possibly recode) each local7 mod before the system could be brought into production.   P 	Trying to maintain a reliable and high availability production system with such methods is IMNSHO sheer lunacy!    Dan   : > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]( > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 1:35 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?  >  > . > In article <3BC67EA0.4010506@tsoft-inc.com>,- >  David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > |>M > |> This is the problem.  A valid question would be "what is VMS" once more  I > |> than one copy was available.  I for one see this as a real disaster.  > K > Why??  It wasn't in the past and there is no reason why it should be now.  > A > Long before I even heard of VMS I was maintaining the Primos on B > Prime 850's and Exec-8 on Univac-1100's and in both cases we hadG > OS source and there were almost always locally written and maintained E > modifications.  UW-Madison was well known for the improvements they H > had made to Exec-8 and this never seemed to cause a problem.  EveryoneA > knew what was official and what was local and we dealt with it.  >  >  > |>  N > |> Note that the OS can be customized now, with user written device drivers K > |> and such.  If you don't like the way a VMS utility, COPY for example,  ( > |> works, you can write a replacement. > L > And the same would be true afterwards.  You couldn't expect HP (or whoeverI > ends out owning VMS int he long run) to debug your local code, but that E > wouldn't mean you couldn't get help with the parts that are theirs.  >  > |>  N > |> I am under the impression that some entity defines what Linux "is".  Not N > |> real clear on this.  Regardless, there would need to be some entity that ? > |> defined VMS as an OS, and any deviations would NOT be VMS.  > J > Someone would always own VMS and they would decide what was and what wasK > not a part of it.  If all ownership were given up, then all bets would be J > off.  But that would probably mean the real demise of VMS as we know it. >  > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:53:33 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 1 Message-ID: <NgGy7.457$RL6.3670@news.cpqcorp.net>   ` In article <tYO0XM1JVs3t@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:; :    I would applaud any move by DigiComHPaq to restore the G :automatic distribution of listings with update kits, but I'm certainly 6 :not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.  J   We've discussed adding these disks into the Compaq CSA program benefits.3   (I do not know the outcome of those discussions.)     H :>> The major _disadvantage_ of raw source availability is the resultingH :>> "locally modified" copies of VMS.  I would expect someone in Keith'sK :>> position, especially, would enjoy the fact that when a client says they I :>> have a machine running VMS it is really running (some version of) the  :>> official DEQ images. : 9 :    I doubt many of us want to heavily customize VMS,...      Don't bet on it.  G :                                                       but the listing H :were a great way to understand what was going on when problems occurredD :and to get "real world" sample code to better understand how to useI :system features ( of course it was also a great way to find undocumented  :features ).     True.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:18:00 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? + Message-ID: <3BCB37B4.EDA56CB2@cumulus.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3BC66704.DA793AD7@fsi.net>, 6 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > |>K > |> To re-iterate (yet again, see the sig.), open sourcing OVMS would be a M > |> futile gesture, at best. It's FAR too complex for the average UN*X-er to  > |> understand. Nuff said.  > |> >  > Dave, H >   I usually find myself in complete agreement with you but this has toI > be the biggest pile of tripe I have ever seen.  I realize this is a VMS J > group and that some level of prejudice should be expected, but you can'tG > possibly be serious about the above.  I am a UN*X-er and have been in F > this business since before VMS was even a gleam in Cutler's eye.  ToK > think that people working with VMS are the only competent computer people $ > is just to unbelievable for words. > E > And on a further note, I had some time this weekend so I decided to G > actually sit down and read Bourne's "UNIX for VMS users".  Now I know G > whare VMS people get all their really bogus ideas regarding Unix.  It H > turns out it is not from "The Unix haters handbook".  One could under-F > stand that, but this is supposed to be a serious book.  It is loadedF > errors and seems to have been written witht he same bias one usuallyG > finds here.  Not what one would expect from a serious book written by E > someone with his credentials.  I mean comparing awk to an editor is G > like comparing EDLIN to Pascal. Comparing ftp to COPY?  Unix can copy G > from machine to machine just like VMS does, You don't need to use ftp G > if the tha mchines share a security model (just like with VMS.)  Even D > his classifications.  awk, nroff, troff and tr as "file managementE > commands.  No wonder VMS people have such a warped understanding of  > VMS. > H > I have threatened to write a book in the past, this makes me even moreE > sure of the need for this.  Especially as more and more current VMS G > people are going to find that job market survival is going to require H > that they at least understand and can deal with the basic fundamentals
 > of Unix. >   F I find it very odd that IT pros aren't diversified in different o/ses.B When things cause a company to go belly-up, the IT pro has to put = something on the table for the next company to consider one. t Diversificatione4 of skills helps.  At least three o/ses for starters.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:17:40 -0500V, From: "Tony Scandora" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? + Message-ID: <9qfg95$tte$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>p  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:9qf6od$2ug9$2@info.cs.uofs.edu.... > In article <3BC67EA0.4010506@tsoft-inc.com>,- >  David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:s > |>L > |> This is the problem.  A valid question would be "what is VMS" once moreI > |> than one copy was available.  I for one see this as a real disaster.i >oK > Why??  It wasn't in the past and there is no reason why it should be now.a >DA > Long before I even heard of VMS I was maintaining the Primos oneB > Prime 850's and Exec-8 on Univac-1100's and in both cases we hadG > OS source and there were almost always locally written and maintainedeE > modifications.  UW-Madison was well known for the improvements theyeH > had made to Exec-8 and this never seemed to cause a problem.  EveryoneA > knew what was official and what was local and we dealt with it.i  J And back in those days, people were able to adjust their own carbeurators.H The complexity of the internals of VMS today is so much greater than theD internals of Primos, Exec-8, or RSX way back then that a justifiable comparison cannot be made.  G Even with the Linux kernel under the tight control of Mr. Torvalds, oneoL cannot expect system management tools or application installation proceduresJ developed for one distribution to work on another.  It's a fine system forB hackers, but do we really want that for VMS?  I, for one, want theK reliability and dependability that we have come to expect from The Real VMSeL Team, which is one of the most talented and consciencious groups of softwareJ professionals in the entire industry.  I would not want any version of VMS that was not certified by them.d  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541p scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2001 13:18:56 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)o' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?m, Message-ID: <Ke1pOLZ$660U@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  2 In article <NgGy7.457$RL6.3670@news.cpqcorp.net>, 8     hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  b > In article <tYO0XM1JVs3t@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:= > :    I would applaud any move by DigiComHPaq to restore theeI > :automatic distribution of listings with update kits, but I'm certainlyo8 > :not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen. > L >   We've discussed adding these disks into the Compaq CSA program benefits.5 >   (I do not know the outcome of those discussions.)= >   C    As an end-user that won't do me any good. Why would this just beaG seen as something for CSA members? Does Compaq not think that end-users G write code that needs that level of understanding as to what's going on C inside the black box? [ I know that others have suggested end-userstG can join the CSA program by being "creative" (lying) about their intent D to develop a commercial product, but that approach just doesn't seem
 right to me.]t  F    What is the problem with including them in the OS binaries kits? IsF it the cost of the disks, the loss of revenue from those customers whoD can afford the current subscription service or a desire to limit the= availability of the information (security through obscurity)?a   > J > :>> The major _disadvantage_ of raw source availability is the resultingJ > :>> "locally modified" copies of VMS.  I would expect someone in Keith'sM > :>> position, especially, would enjoy the fact that when a client says theynK > :>> have a machine running VMS it is really running (some version of) thei > :>> official DEQ images. > :i; > :    I doubt many of us want to heavily customize VMS,...e >  >   Don't bet on it. >   N    "many" is a relative term. I would bet that for every customer that intendsN to re-write substantial portions of VMS there are dozens who only want to lookF at what's going on ( or perhaps make some minor tweaks in a utility ).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:18:29 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?k' Message-ID: <3BCB52A5.8A7E4D0D@fsi.net>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 3 > In article <NgGy7.457$RL6.3670@news.cpqcorp.net>,t: >     hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > d > > In article <tYO0XM1JVs3t@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:? > > :    I would applaud any move by DigiComHPaq to restore the K > > :automatic distribution of listings with update kits, but I'm certainlyi: > > :not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen. > >eN > >   We've discussed adding these disks into the Compaq CSA program benefits.7 > >   (I do not know the outcome of those discussions.)d > >  > E >    As an end-user that won't do me any good. Why would this just beoI > seen as something for CSA members? Does Compaq not think that end-userslI > write code that needs that level of understanding as to what's going oneE > inside the black box? [ I know that others have suggested end-usersdI > can join the CSA program by being "creative" (lying) about their intent F > to develop a commercial product, but that approach just doesn't seem > right to me.]e > H >    What is the problem with including them in the OS binaries kits? IsH > it the cost of the disks, the loss of revenue from those customers whoF > can afford the current subscription service or a desire to limit the? > availability of the information (security through obscurity)?  >  > >dL > > :>> The major _disadvantage_ of raw source availability is the resultingL > > :>> "locally modified" copies of VMS.  I would expect someone in Keith'sO > > :>> position, especially, would enjoy the fact that when a client says theyoM > > :>> have a machine running VMS it is really running (some version of) the  > > :>> official DEQ images. > > : = > > :    I doubt many of us want to heavily customize VMS,...a > >c > >   Don't bet on it. > >, > P >    "many" is a relative term. I would bet that for every customer that intendsP > to re-write substantial portions of VMS there are dozens who only want to lookH > at what's going on ( or perhaps make some minor tweaks in a utility ).  6 I'm not sure that anyone wants to "re-write" anything.  H Posts appear here frequently from new and old posters/lurkers asking forH features - either new features or improvements to old ones. For example,A I'd _LOVE_ to the be the one to figure out how to add support forlE "scripted" input (command files, image data in .COM proc.'s, etc.) torH such things as HSCPAD. Without the code for HSCPAD, etc., of course, theD best anyone can hope for is a kludge like HSDSA-SCRIPT (don't get meC wrong - *VERY* useful program, just not consistent with VMS style).-  E I know, I know - "too many cooks". Dunno 'bout that, though. Seems tos work for *BSD, Linux, etc. ...   -- s David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:27:47 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? & Message-ID: <3BCB54D3.99A4A20@fsi.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > G > Nah.  We're not threatened.  We all know that to implement a completeuN > replacement that is bug-for-bug and feature-for-feature identical is next to& > impossible, it's just too big a job.  B That's only true if it matches your paradigm. I lack the technicalH knowledge skill to duplicate the VMS kernel. However, those are the onlyF "reasons" why "it's just too big a job". In my experience, persistenceD wins the day - the road to failure is the path of least persistence.  oN > Now you can subset things, and try to define something other than "VMS" thatK > you want to create, and perhaps make it achievable.  Certainly the systemhJ > services are well documented.  The library interfaces.  The file system. > Even DCL.y > " > But in the end, it won't be VMS.  D If it were 100% source-code compatible - everything compiles / links@ with no changes and produces identical performance, security andA reliability - I doubt that I would care whether the kernel and/oro/ underlying o.s. was Mach, Linux, *BSD, etc. ...e  oH > Lots of people have said that if you took the core of VMS (sort-of theM > single node, non-file system, non-cluster portions) and tried to rewrite ittN > without compatability, and to fix some of it's limitations, you would end up > with the NT kernel.n   Yecchh!i  rL > You could certainly take the NT kernel, sans the Windows stuff, and use itN > as a kernel to build a replacement for the VMS user interfaces on top of it.  C Dunno. I suspect it would still have a reliability gap, unless some 0 serious flaws in NT could be made more VMS-like.   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:36:01 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?f' Message-ID: <3BCB56C0.E8CF165C@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3BC66704.DA793AD7@fsi.net>,r6 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > |>K > |> To re-iterate (yet again, see the sig.), open sourcing OVMS would be agM > |> futile gesture, at best. It's FAR too complex for the average UN*X-er toe > |> understand. Nuff said.e > |> >  > Dave,oH >   I usually find myself in complete agreement with you but this has toF > be the biggest pile of tripe I have ever seen.  I realize this is a  > [snip]H > I have threatened to write a book in the past, this makes me even moreE > sure of the need for this.  Especially as more and more current VMSMG > people are going to find that job market survival is going to requiretH > that they at least understand and can deal with the basic fundamentals
 > of Unix.  @ My impression is that you're quite a few cuts above "the averageH UN*X-er". No doubt, serious kernel hackers would evenutally grasp it. MyE point was that to OpenSource VMS would not be a serious threat to it,oG though the profitability of commercial issues might suffer considerablya. if not differentiated from the "free" version.  G In deference to certain VMS customers, though, perhaps a "declassified"eF version of OVMS would be more suitable to OpenSource, leaving the moreD sensitive bits out, but still leaving a buildable kernel, libraries,G etc. Then, "VMS" could go back to being THE commercial VMS, and OpenVMSi$ could become the OpenSource version.  G "That's what I admire about you, Larry! That's why you're the brains ofs this outfit! You dream big!"/ -- Darrin Stevens to Larry Tate in "Bewitched".l   -- P David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:26:46 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>t' Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation? L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DD7E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]  E > Dunno. I suspect it would still have a reliability gap, unless somel2 > serious flaws in NT could be made more VMS-like.  L Am I the only one to find that sentence amusing?  "Introducing NT 8.0 -- now7 with serious VMS-like flaws..." could be the slogan. :)i   Regards,   Chrisi    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerh Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i 'o  h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:50:37 -0500|1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?1' Message-ID: <3BCB5A2D.54DABEDF@fsi.net>d   GreyCloud wrote: > H > I find it very odd that IT pros aren't diversified in different o/ses.C > When things cause a company to go belly-up, the IT pro has to puta> > something on the table for the next company to consider one.  G Answer: dilution of skills. The "IT pro" becomes a "jack of all trades,rG master of none". Easily marketable, but commanding much lower salaries.o  F > Diversification of skills helps.  At least three o/ses for starters.  C VMS, UN*X and WhineBloze - stilling down the variants and dialects,eB those are the three major ones, as I see it. OS/390 and OS/400 are4 "niche" items, IMO, similar to the view held of VMS.  H In the "attack of the killer viruses", MS's attempts to foist "XP" on an unsuspecting world (seetS http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/01/10/08/011008oplivingston.xml?1012frpm),s? and Gartner's condemnation of IIS, WhineBloze has, IMO, met itsmD "Waterloo" (reference to Napoleon, not the train station in London). MCSEs are a dime a dozen.   : So, that cuts it down to two major players - VMS and UN*X.  G Solaris, Linux, *BSD, etc. are really all different flavors of the same H thing - the same, but different. UN*X will, I'm sure, survive. GUIs will come and go, however.e  * VMS is rather a tough argument these days.  H In certain bastions, it may survive. Who will follow in the footsteps of# the VMS "giants" is anyone's guess.   5 ...IMHO. Of course, and as always, YMMV considerably.    -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:03:44 -04000( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? , Message-ID: <3BCB7960.5070906@tsoft-inc.com>  E The following is a much too simplified perspective on a subject that   cannot be simplified."   GreyCloud wrote:   > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) >>In article <3BC66704.DA793AD7@fsi.net>,c6 >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>|>K >>|> To re-iterate (yet again, see the sig.), open sourcing OVMS would be a M >>|> futile gesture, at best. It's FAR too complex for the average UN*X-er toa >>|> understand. Nuff said.f >>|> >> >>Dave,sH >>  I usually find myself in complete agreement with you but this has toI >>be the biggest pile of tripe I have ever seen.  I realize this is a VMS J >>group and that some level of prejudice should be expected, but you can'tG >>possibly be serious about the above.  I am a UN*X-er and have been inoF >>this business since before VMS was even a gleam in Cutler's eye.  ToK >>think that people working with VMS are the only competent computer peoplec$ >>is just to unbelievable for words.    H Several ways of looking at these statements.  Most of today's operating H systems are definitely 'far too complex' for the AVERAGE anybody, be it  VMS, Unix, or whatever.-  F As an example, start studying the VMS distributed lock manager.  Most E people will learn about concepts they never before considered during  D such an exercise.  A pretty complex and powerful tool for what most ? people consider something to arbitrate file and record locking.d  G Many things in today's operating systems have grown based upon diverse nF needs and requests, over a lengthly period of time.  Without exposure H over time to such, nobody could understand the whats and whys of an OS. G   Some may look at the 'kernel' and see some simplicity, but what good e is just the kernel of any OS?S  I As for the VMS prejudice, I have to point out that sometimes you have to  ? accept being judged on your actions and performance.  The vast hC differences between VMS and any other OS in the areas of security, aI robust features, reliability, and such do exist, and can be something to  H judge the difference between VMS developers and the developers of other G operating systems.  It doesn't say that the Un*x-ers are less capable, e+ but their actions don't indicate otherwise.p      H > I find it very odd that IT pros aren't diversified in different o/ses.D > When things cause a company to go belly-up, the IT pro has to put ? > something on the table for the next company to consider one.   > DiversificationV6 > of skills helps.  At least three o/ses for starters. >   F I would disagree with the above.  Nothing wrong with knowing multiple D things, but also nothing wrong with specalizing in something to the  point of being more capable.  A As for the issue of insuring your resume is in order, I find the lC practice disgusting.  If you're good enough, you will do well.  If vF you're not, then it's all bullshit anyway.  I've seen too many people I who were more interested in their resume than in their employer's needs. iI   I've also seen instances when this has hurt the employer.  I would not  I call such an employee honest.  You may guess that my perspective is that c6 of a consultant and employer, not that of an employee.   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2001 18:02:40 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)e' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?m= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0110151702.6f6f3f0e@posting.google.com>a  e nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote in message news:<Ke1pOLZ$660U@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>...r/ > [ I know that others have suggested end-usersnI > can join the CSA program by being "creative" (lying) about their intenttF > to develop a commercial product, but that approach just doesn't seem > right to me.]   F That was a problem with Digital's old ASAP program, which seemed to beC aimed only at resellers and software developers, and didn't seem tolE know what to do with someone like a consultant.  Compaq's CSA program  has no such problem.  F In terms of getting VMS listings, you don't have to be a CSA member toC get the listings, but paying the $600 per year membership fee gives-F you a 50% discount on the source listings license (regularly somethingD lik $2400, or $1200 with the discount), which more than pays for theB membership the first year.  After you purchase the source listingsE license, the update service costs between $700 and $800 per year -- IcA don't think there's a CSA discount on that, but I could be wrong..C ------------------------------------------------------------------- C Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:tC Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/On   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:31:07 GMTs" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?n+ Message-ID: <3BCBAB48.CC076E09@cumulus.com>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote: > > J > > I find it very odd that IT pros aren't diversified in different o/ses.E > > When things cause a company to go belly-up, the IT pro has to putg@ > > something on the table for the next company to consider one. > I > Answer: dilution of skills. The "IT pro" becomes a "jack of all trades,iI > master of none". Easily marketable, but commanding much lower salaries.m > H > > Diversification of skills helps.  At least three o/ses for starters. > E > VMS, UN*X and WhineBloze - stilling down the variants and dialects,oD > those are the three major ones, as I see it. OS/390 and OS/400 are6 > "niche" items, IMO, similar to the view held of VMS. > J > In the "attack of the killer viruses", MS's attempts to foist "XP" on an > unsuspecting world (seelU > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/01/10/08/011008oplivingston.xml?1012frpm),eA > and Gartner's condemnation of IIS, WhineBloze has, IMO, met itsaF > "Waterloo" (reference to Napoleon, not the train station in London). > MCSEs are a dime a dozen.i >   H MSCEs graduate from the Brothel in Bothell.  That's one field I wouldn't1 consider as I feel it puts a blot on ones record.l  < > So, that cuts it down to two major players - VMS and UN*X. > I > Solaris, Linux, *BSD, etc. are really all different flavors of the same(J > thing - the same, but different. UN*X will, I'm sure, survive. GUIs will > come and go, however.  > , > VMS is rather a tough argument these days. > J > In certain bastions, it may survive. Who will follow in the footsteps of% > the VMS "giants" is anyone's guess.l > 7 > ...IMHO. Of course, and as always, YMMV considerably.p >   D Well, I had to administer/program a VAX, Sun boxes, and do AutomatedC Test Engineering at the same time.  It helped me get all the way tor: retirement.  IBM VS ... ??  AS/400s are still plentiful inE county and city governments around here.  Just one I didn't have timel to get trained on.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:37:14 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?A+ Message-ID: <3BCBACB8.FDD1414C@cumulus.com>o   David Froble wrote:i > F > The following is a much too simplified perspective on a subject that > cannot be simplified.o >  > GreyCloud wrote: >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >l+ > >>In article <3BC66704.DA793AD7@fsi.net>,s8 > >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >>|>M > >>|> To re-iterate (yet again, see the sig.), open sourcing OVMS would be atO > >>|> futile gesture, at best. It's FAR too complex for the average UN*X-er tor > >>|> understand. Nuff said.  > >>|> > >>	 > >>Dave,sJ > >>  I usually find myself in complete agreement with you but this has toK > >>be the biggest pile of tripe I have ever seen.  I realize this is a VMScL > >>group and that some level of prejudice should be expected, but you can'tI > >>possibly be serious about the above.  I am a UN*X-er and have been indH > >>this business since before VMS was even a gleam in Cutler's eye.  ToM > >>think that people working with VMS are the only competent computer peoplee& > >>is just to unbelievable for words. > I > Several ways of looking at these statements.  Most of today's operatingmI > systems are definitely 'far too complex' for the AVERAGE anybody, be itm > VMS, Unix, or whatever.u > G > As an example, start studying the VMS distributed lock manager.  MostlF > people will learn about concepts they never before considered duringE > such an exercise.  A pretty complex and powerful tool for what most A > people consider something to arbitrate file and record locking.t > H > Many things in today's operating systems have grown based upon diverseG > needs and requests, over a lengthly period of time.  Without exposureeI > over time to such, nobody could understand the whats and whys of an OS. H >   Some may look at the 'kernel' and see some simplicity, but what good > is just the kernel of any OS?r > J > As for the VMS prejudice, I have to point out that sometimes you have to@ > accept being judged on your actions and performance.  The vastD > differences between VMS and any other OS in the areas of security,J > robust features, reliability, and such do exist, and can be something toI > judge the difference between VMS developers and the developers of otherbH > operating systems.  It doesn't say that the Un*x-ers are less capable,- > but their actions don't indicate otherwise.- > J > > I find it very odd that IT pros aren't diversified in different o/ses.E > > When things cause a company to go belly-up, the IT pro has to putl@ > > something on the table for the next company to consider one. > > Diversificationa8 > > of skills helps.  At least three o/ses for starters. > >l > G > I would disagree with the above.  Nothing wrong with knowing multiplenE > things, but also nothing wrong with specalizing in something to thet > point of being more capable. > B > As for the issue of insuring your resume is in order, I find theD > practice disgusting.  If you're good enough, you will do well.  IfG > you're not, then it's all bullshit anyway.  I've seen too many people J > who were more interested in their resume than in their employer's needs.J >   I've also seen instances when this has hurt the employer.  I would notJ > call such an employee honest.  You may guess that my perspective is that8 > of a consultant and employer, not that of an employee. >   F I got bit bad from Haldanes methods.  A real waste of money except one pointlH that they did bring up... networking.  I'd feel that one should go afterG what he loved doing.  All too often the employer gets burned because ofi a B too hyped up resume.  I've always kept mine very simple and to the point.C No more than one page.  After that I feel I'm wasting a prospectivem
 employers'C time.  I know employers don't have much time to talk to prospective 
 employees,E but a few references from people you already know helps a lot.  Don't  knowB if you have done that or not, but since I'm already retired I'd be
 interested= in the varying stories and experiences that you may have had.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:23:49 +0200s. From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de> Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000a* Message-ID: <3BCB8C25.978F4E@pcde.inka.de>   Hi,n   Derek Haining wrote: > U > My experience here is from dealing with Digital Personal Workstations.  The "a" and  > "au"P > boxes.  The "a" boxes had Alpha CPUs and were designed for running Windows NT.T > (If I understood the naming convention, the "i" series uses Intel CPUs.)  The "au" > boxesoO > had Alpha C PUs and were designed to run Unix (oh, and OpenVMS too).  Anyway,<L > the "a" boxes came with one graphics card, and the "au" came with another.  E I never heard about such a difference for Alphaservers. I guess the AFK only means some sort of an improvement as IIRC the A can take faster CPU's.> I am not sure however.  lU > You might check to see if the version of OpenVMS you are trying to run will supportt > theh > Mach64 card.  I have no idea.   D This card should be supported. It's on the list of supported optionsH and I read in an official README that you need the cfg files and the ECU to install this card.a@ I clearly works with Tru64. This box was running Unix and Oracle originally.lA Maybe I will try another card, but I definitly want an additional.H graphics card. The onboard framebuffer works with VMS, but only at 56Hz. It's a pain to work with.n   Dennis   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:09:46 -0500b1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y5 Subject: Re: Blast from past: shape of things to comet' Message-ID: <3BCB5EAA.B11B6FA0@fsi.net>    John Eisenschmidt wrote: >  > /*A >  * xmodmap - program for loading keymap definitions into server  >  *< >  * $XConsortium: exec.c,v 1.12 91/07/18 10:25:57 rws Exp $ >  *9 >  * Copyright 1988 Massachusetts Institute of Technologyd@ >  * Copyright 1987 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. Mountain View, CA. >  > I assume you're talking about the 1987 copyright? We could only be so lucky as to have Sun own everything. I doubt a company could be worse than Microsoft.n   SSSHHH!!! Don't jinx it!!    -- t David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:05:47 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Re: CETS presentations now availableD& Message-ID: <3BCB5DBB.2601A5F@fsi.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > K > Folks I have just received the following from Bill Horzempa.  Bill is the D > Compaq executive responsible for CETS from the Compaq perspective. > L > Go to www.cets2001.com <http://www.cets2001.com> and look on the left sideJ > for Public Catalog. Select public catalog. If you are already a registerN > portal user you can log in and then have access to the files. If you are notM > a registered portal user you need to create a portal account, which is freeeK > and then log in. We want people to register so we can send them CETS 2002-& > information as it becomes available.  ! Thanx for keeping us posted, Sue!    -- . David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:19:11 -0400a- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> K Subject: Re: CETS presentations now available (only if you ignore security)r( Message-ID: <3BCB36A3.340C7EF6@ohio.edu>  ] And for those who are bolder, and permit their browser more room, the following text appears:o  Y         "Also note that only attendees who actually registered for CETS 2001 will be ableh,           to access the presentation files."  +                                         RDPe     Larry Kilgallen wrote:  h > In article <tcDy7.434$RL6.3797@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:M > > Folks I have just received the following from Bill Horzempa.  Bill is theeF > > Compaq executive responsible for CETS from the Compaq perspective. >aG > I have determined this is an authentic message from CETS (see below).l >,N > > Go to www.cets2001.com <http://www.cets2001.com> and look on the left side. > > for Public Catalog. Select public catalog. >aF > That produces a blank page on a secured browser (no Java, JavaScript > or cookies enabled).   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2001 13:22:52 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)gK Subject: Re: CETS presentations now available (only if you ignore security)e, Message-ID: <ppM8+ddkuJe+@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  X In article <3BCB36A3.340C7EF6@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes: > _ > And for those who are bolder, and permit their browser more room, the following text appears:  > [ >         "Also note that only attendees who actually registered for CETS 2001 will be able4. >           to access the presentation files." >   Z    That part is not correct. I was able to access the presentation files after registering\ as a user ( I take it that's a feature and not a bug ). Now I just need to find time to pore through them all.N      ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:12:59 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> ) Subject: Re: CLD, how to expand keywords?i2 Message-ID: <fzGy7.41311$Z2.616706@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  > "Anders Wallin" <anders_wallin@altavista.com> wrote in message6 news:6cc41c7.0110150550.6b7c9b22@posting.google.com...E > I am using the CLI$ interface from a C-program invoked as a foreignp command. >  > When I issue the command >   >    $ TEST TESTFILE.A /TYPE=REL >...  F I don't know about C, but in Fortran I would code something like this;  & istatus = cli$present ('type.release')B if (istatus .eq. %loc (cli$_present)) type *, 'RELEASE is present'@ if (istatus .eq. %loc (cli$_absent)) type *, 'RELEASE is absent'F if (istatus .eq. %loc (cli$_defaulted)) type *, 'RELEASE is defaulted'   --L "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with yourL eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long! to return."  -  Leonardo da VincihL "When once you have tasted VMS, you will forever walk the earth knowing thatF a stable OS exists, for you have used it, and to its security you will& always long to return." - Not Leonardo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:08:35 -0700eE From: "Richard Wolff" <RWOLFF.CG-POST.SELKIRK@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca>s9 Subject: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk 1 Message-ID: <sbcadfeb.003@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca>M   --=_91CB6C4B.50315D35 * Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablen  7 How do I convert an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk?      --=_91CB6C4B.50315D35t+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1s+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>L <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"= >s@ <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>J <BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt Tahoma; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">How = do I=20 < convert an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk?</BODY></HTML>   --=_91CB6C4B.50315D35--    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:40:26 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk 1 Message-ID: <eJIy7.470$RL6.4198@news.cpqcorp.net>h  y In article <sbcadfeb.003@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca>, "Richard Wolff" <RWOLFF.CG-POST.SELKIRK@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca> writes:e ..  G   Please turn off MIME and HTML when posting.  Thanks!  (Your one-line tH   question turned into fourteen lines of HTML stuff when it was posted.)  8 :How do I convert an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk?  '   Assuming OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 or later:        $ SET VOLUME/STRUCT=5 ddcu:o  E   I am, however, somewhat concerned that you are asking this question E   as there are other considerations -- an OpenVMS manual on Extended n?   File Specifications and related ODS-5 topics is available at:O  ?     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6536/6536PRO.HTMLa      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:43:42 -0400j% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>h= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system diskt/ Message-ID: <tsmm4fonfehm5d@news.supernews.com>p  % You can't use ODS-5 on a system disk.   H "Richard Wolff" <RWOLFF.CG-POST.SELKIRK@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca> wrote in3 message news:sbcadfeb.003@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca...t7 How do I convert an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk?0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:16:29 GMTg2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system diske1 Message-ID: <1fJy7.472$RL6.4212@news.cpqcorp.net>s  W In article <tsmm4fonfehm5d@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:'& :You can't use ODS-5 on a system disk.  H   That is clearly one interpretation of the question, but I'd guess thatH   was not the interpretation that was intended.  (The potential for thisK   ambiguity is certainly part of the expected results of a terse question.)-K   If this is a system disk, however, your comments and your interpretation lI   are quite correct -- the use of the ODS-5 disk volume structure is not D9   officially supported for use as an OpenVMS system disk.r  G   The salient restrictions here exist within the Primitive File System nH   (PFS) that is used to bootstrap OpenVMS, and OpenVMS Engineering will I   probably be supporting the use of ODS-5 on the system disk on a future oK   release of OpenVMS Alpha.  (I *think* this was part of the DII COE work, sK   the DII COE platform uses ODS-5 disks for most everything.)  If you want gI   to try using a system disk configured using the ODS-5 file structure ontJ   existing OpenVMS releases, follow the ODS-2 rules for the files and the G   directories that are accessed via PFS, and you will probably find theOI   configuration will work -- I know of several OpenVMS systems that have .;   successfully been bootstrapped from an ODS-5 system disk.t  F   Of course, this configuration is not officially supported and might 
   well break.l  I :"Richard Wolff" <RWOLFF.CG-POST.SELKIRK@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca> wrote in 4 :message news:sbcadfeb.003@casgrpws.selkirk.bc.ca...8 :How do I convert an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk?    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:46:53 GMTw2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: DEC VAX Users1 Message-ID: <xaGy7.456$RL6.3974@news.cpqcorp.net>p  r In article <9q6t3l$knp$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "David Tarbox-Cooper" <David.Tarbox-Cooper@bcs.org.uk> writes:@ :Can anybody tell me a legitimate, or otherwise, way to identify& :companies/sites still using DEC VAXs.  F   Compaq has information around for OpenVMS VAX customers with active K   support contracts and such, if this is (as you say) a legitimate request.aG   We also obviously have customers around that are running (often olderuH   releases) without support contracts, as well.  (If this is part of theG   research for a commercial product for use on OpenVMS, the Compaq CSA c+   program folks might be of interest here.)w  I   Various self-reported means and various commercial surveys are around, i
   as well.  H   Details of customers using ULTRIX, Linux, and other operating systems E   that run on VAX hardware may be somewhat more difficult to acquire..D   (There are a number of operating systems that run on VAX hardware,G   I have obviously assumed OpenVMS VAX, based on the newsgroup chosen.)t  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:08:21 GMTv2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)L Subject: Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?)1 Message-ID: <9fIy7.469$RL6.4198@news.cpqcorp.net>u  ` In article <Ke1pOLZ$660U@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:3 :In article <NgGy7.457$RL6.3670@news.cpqcorp.net>, e9 :    hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  :ac :> In article <tYO0XM1JVs3t@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:s> :> :    I would applaud any move by DigiComHPaq to restore theJ :> :automatic distribution of listings with update kits, but I'm certainly9 :> :not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.t :> sM :>   We've discussed adding these disks into the Compaq CSA program benefits.l6 :>   (I do not know the outcome of those discussions.) :> c :nD :   As an end-user that won't do me any good. Why would this just beH :seen as something for CSA members? Does Compaq not think that end-usersH :write code that needs that level of understanding as to what's going on :inside the black box?  L   In my own personal experience, most end-user customer sites don't develop M   code, though there is often some amount of site-specific or vendor-providedaN   customization of commercial applications that occurs at these sites.  Those M   end-user customer sites that do tend to develop user-mode application code.tN   There are certainly some very talented folks at specific end-user sites and I   obviously some of these folks actively develop privileged-mode code forfJ   OpenVMS, but -- again, in my own personal experience -- these sites are #   the exception and not the rule.  f  G   Most customer sites that are developing code are developing internal eD   packages and are particularly also developing products for resale.  C :                     [ I know that others have suggested end-userslH :can join the CSA program by being "creative" (lying) about their intentE :to develop a commercial product, but that approach just doesn't seemr :right to me.]  2   Why lie when you can develop and sell a package.  H   The Compaq programs target the developers and the programmers -- theseF   are the folks that are producing applications for resale on OpenVMS.  C   CSA is the Compaq program that targets the commercial applicationlD   developers, and it provides for licenses and packages that are of    interest to developers.      K :> :>> The major _disadvantage_ of raw source availability is the resultinglK :> :>> "locally modified" copies of VMS.  I would expect someone in Keith's N :> :>> position, especially, would enjoy the fact that when a client says theyL :> :>> have a machine running VMS it is really running (some version of) the :> :>> official DEQ images.  :> :< :> :    I doubt many of us want to heavily customize VMS,... :>   :>   Don't bet on it.r : O :   "many" is a relative term. I would bet that for every customer that intends O :to re-write substantial portions of VMS there are dozens who only want to looky :at what's going on...       Don't bet on it.    C   And just to keep the discussion interesting, there also exists a oE   contingent of customer folks that do not want to receive the extra  C   CD-ROM disks.  (What do you do with the disks you don't want and  F   don't need?  Skeet?  Trash?)  I heard from folks that wanted to cut C   down the numbers of pieces in the CD-ROM kits that they received.d    4 :( or perhaps make some minor tweaks in a utility ).    H   A tweak is only minor if it doesn't eventually mess something else up.  I   Given what fallout I've seen from what I thought were some minor tweakseG   to OpenVMS, I've learned that the only tweaks that are minor are the UK   ones that are entirely invisible, or that we don't ship.  (eg: We changedcM   the global section names that were used "behind" the INSTALL utility, back oC   in V6.2.  This was to permit us to fail before we deinstalled thetF   previous image, and to permit the same filename to be installed fromG   more than one directory.  When we made this change, we found several  H   developers that were using information gleaned from displays and from J   the source listings, and that were mapping directly into various of the     sections of installed images.)   	--e  L   There is no good answer here, and I will say that neither the open source :   approach nor the existing source approaches are working.   	--d  J   I have worked with folks that have wanted to customize specific OpenVMS J   components, and I have acquired the necessary sanction for and have then*   provided the source code to these folks.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2001 16:27:36 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)yL Subject: Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?), Message-ID: <m6TwcgeELo7i@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  2 In article <9fIy7.469$RL6.4198@news.cpqcorp.net>, 8     hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > E > :                     [ I know that others have suggested end-usersfJ > :can join the CSA program by being "creative" (lying) about their intentG > :to develop a commercial product, but that approach just doesn't seemd > :right to me.] > 4 >   Why lie when you can develop and sell a package. > D     Develop is not the problem, sell is. My employer (an educationalD institution) is not in the business of selling software, though over> the years we've given away some substantial software to other C institutions. The market for that is of course dwindling along with.B the interest in VMS by educational institutions ( though I think IG can safely claim that software I developed was instrumental in bringingt% another site back to VMS from Unix ).e  D     How about giving a price break on the listings to CSLG customers5 (based on the educational value to listings provide)?s  J >   The Compaq programs target the developers and the programmers -- theseH >   are the folks that are producing applications for resale on OpenVMS. > #     again, "resale" is the problem.i  E >   CSA is the Compaq program that targets the commercial application-F >   developers, and it provides for licenses and packages that are of  >   interest to developers.c >   G     Yes, and unfortunately there is no comparable program for end-usersrI developing software for their own use. We're stuck in that vacuum between ( "hobbyists" and "commercial developers".   > :hQ > :   "many" is a relative term. I would bet that for every customer that intendseQ > :to re-write substantial portions of VMS there are dozens who only want to look  > :at what's going on... >  >  >   Don't bet on it.   > E    OK, I'll just speak for myself. I don't want to re-write VMS - I'deD like the listings for informational purposes. I used to utilize themE regularly when the fiche was included - I've had no access since theneG because the cost of the listings CD subscription service is more than Id; can justify. It doesn't appear the CSA program is any help.l  E >   And just to keep the discussion interesting, there also exists a eG >   contingent of customer folks that do not want to receive the extra o >   CD-ROM disks.o  '    How many disks are we talking about?   5 >  (What do you do with the disks you don't want and =  >   don't need?  Skeet?  Trash?)  4    I prefer Christmas decorations or drink coasters.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:14:56 GMT 4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>( Subject: Re: Free IMAP4 server for UCX ?@ Message-ID: <klIy7.169905$bY5.794712@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  K For an official answer, send mail to TCP/IP product manager.  (Send me maila if you need contact details).y  J Also, V5.2 release is part of COE (spoken of elsewhere in this newsgroup).4 So the next version for general consumption is V5.3.   Matt.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:41:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsr, Message-ID: <3BCB5812.31B746F3@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > IMHO, this is pure BS.  We continue to sell Alphas into new accounts, andlN > continue to get new sales every day on Alpha.  The Business Critical SystemsN > division is focused on selling Alphas.  There IS NO let up in trying to sellH > Alpha, which would be foolish since we will not have a competetive IPF8 > offering (with EV68 or EV7 or EV79) for quite a while.    K Business Critical Systems is a division in the basement. The real Compaq islG shoving 8086 servers down customers throats. And any Alpha sale is done5M *despite* Compaq. For the VMS and Business Critical systems groups, Alpha mayrM not be dead yet, but higher up and in the sales areas it is dead and not evenT3 worth mentioning to customers during presentations.C  K When was the last time that Compaq publicly announced how much profit Alphay and VMS generated for Compaq ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:48:49 GMTc* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsL@ Message-ID: <RtLy7.16134$%B.2052129@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:BrEy7.440$RL6.3822@news.cpqcorp.net...o   ...r  3 > We continue to sell Alphas into new accounts, andtF > continue to get new sales every day on Alpha.  The Business Critical Systems I > division is focused on selling Alphas.  There IS NO let up in trying toe sellH > Alpha, which would be foolish since we will not have a competetive IPF8 > offering (with EV68 or EV7 or EV79) for quite a while.  H So IPF won't be competitive until some time after EV79, eh?  Which meansG about the time EV8 would have shipped, in which case it seems extremely5I likely that IPF wouldn't have been competitive then either, for some even: longer period.  L Can this be the same Fred K. who so eloquently supported the party line thatJ Alpha couldn't have maintained a sufficient performance advantage over IPFH to justify continued development?  Sure sounds as if you're saying aboveL that Alpha could have easily held onto at least its own markets (which couldJ have been expanded significantly with even minimal effort) against IPF for- at least 5 - 6 years, had EV8 been completed.I   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:39:34 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>-/ Subject: RE: Higher prices for Alpha processors-T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4010D70F1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,f  C As stated in previous thread, not selling Alpha's until competitivee5 flavours of IPF are available would be ridiculous.=20a  H Does not HP still continue to market and sell PA very agressively today? Of course they do.=20i  G What Customer will migrate to a new platform that has not proven itselfa) to be better than their current platform?n  F How many VAX Customers jumped on the first Alpha system that came out?F (A:a few) How many waited until faster Alpha's came out? (A:much more), How many are still on VAX's? (A:quite a few)  H Bottom line is that like most migrations, some will find it advantageousG to move quickly, some will take their time and move at their discretion E when their business requirements dictate it and some will likely stayt for a long time on Alpha./  H What percentages will actually occur in each category will depend on howB well the various IPF servers perform when they are released in the
 future.=20  @ >>> Business Critical Systems is a division in the basement. <<<  1 Yep, $857M sales mean nothing to Compaq  - right?    :-)   1 http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011001/dam007a_1.htmll HOUSTON, Oct. 1 /PRNewswire/F "Compaq AlphaServer Systems Chosen As Platform for GTSI's $857 Million Army Contract"  < http://inline.compaq.com/news/newscpq/marketing/gtsi1001.asp  G Compaq and GTSI Corp. on Monday announced that our AlphaServer  systems B will be the computer platform for GTSI's five-year, Maxi-Minis andF Databases  (MMAD-G) U.S. government contract valued at as much as $857 million.  C Or how about the sale of 20 OpenVMS based ES40's for use in the Air- Forces J-STARS aircraft:8 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001080602.htmlB "Known as Block 20 E-8C Joint Strategic Target Attack Radar SystemG (J-STARS), the plane uses 20 Compaq AlphaServerT ES40CV systems runningq the OpenVMST operating system.  F Or how about the recent $100M NSK SABRE win (also moving to IPF by the way)D http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001082801.html (August 28)  H At a time when x86 profits are declining, I suspect wins like this would  not go unnoticed in any company.   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.e Professional Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660, Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] Sent: October 15, 2001 5:42 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorst     Fred Kleinsorge wrote:G > IMHO, this is pure BS.  We continue to sell Alphas into new accounts,i andeF > continue to get new sales every day on Alpha.  The Business Critical SystemstF > division is focused on selling Alphas.  There IS NO let up in trying to sellkH > Alpha, which would be foolish since we will not have a competetive IPF8 > offering (with EV68 or EV7 or EV79) for quite a while.    H Business Critical Systems is a division in the basement. The real Compaq isG shoving 8086 servers down customers throats. And any Alpha sale is donewC *despite* Compaq. For the VMS and Business Critical systems groups,b	 Alpha mayaH not be dead yet, but higher up and in the sales areas it is dead and not even3 worth mentioning to customers during presentations.r  E When was the last time that Compaq publicly announced how much profita Alpha: and VMS generated for Compaq ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 01:51:50 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsl, Message-ID: <3BCBCAF3.D9323503@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:E > As stated in previous thread, not selling Alpha's until competitivef4 > flavours of IPF are available would be ridiculous. > J > Does not HP still continue to market and sell PA very agressively today? > Of course they do.  M The difference is that Compaq never wanted to sell Alpha, they wanted to sell I Wintel servers. The June 25 announcement removed any wind left in Alpha'smM sales, except for those who have no choice because they need Alpha's peculiar:( capabilities that don't exist on wintel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:07:33 -0500q1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i9 Subject: Re: Ingres (Was: Re: jobs? ingres vax/vms cobol)u' Message-ID: <3BCB5E25.E20916DA@fsi.net>b   John Eisenschmidt wrote: > 1 > Ahh, another product who's sad story ends with:u > : > "And then Computer Associates bought them <DOT DOT DOT>"  G Indeed - one of the most dreaded death sentences a software product cank receive.   -- e David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:13:52 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Installed VMS Imagesu1 Message-ID: <QzGy7.459$RL6.3902@news.cpqcorp.net>V  h In article <KiGx7.68795$TW.360822@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes: :$ install:==$installo :$ install add vmounte  L   That recommendation contains very outdated syntax for the INSTALL utility.  K   The foreign command syntax was replaced some time ago -- the old INSTALL nI   command syntax was replaced in the (as it was then known) VAX/VMS V4.0 -H   release, and INSTALL was later promoted to a full DCL verb -- with no 9   need for the foreign command syntax -- in VAX/VMS V5.0.?  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:22:47 GMTD  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>1 Subject: Re: Microsoft Security Slipup of the Day:8 Message-ID: <77omstorck69jrr631hjq6de2f7ljr7fjl@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 21:27:51 GMT, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote:   >GreyCloud wrote:d >> h >> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >> aH >> > > Just because Afghanistan is a primitive country doesn't mean thatL >> > > their operatives don't have the ability to exploit Microsoft security2 >> > > holes from someplace like Iraq, Libya, etc. >> >P >> > True. Scumbag Bin Laden and his verminous filth are wise to ways of No Such6 >> > Agency and ply their murderous trade accordingly. >> cI >> Which brings up a question: How do they know so much about NSA and thee >> methods involved??p >> Moles perhaps?? >eI >I think bin Laden was trained by the CIA, to help him fight the Soviets.  >s4 >It's easy enough to turn such knowledge against us.  E But why are all these people that the CIA trained as inept as the CIAl	 trainers?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:41:58 +0100i3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>y) Subject: Re: Need VMS 1.5 C-Kermit binary / Message-ID: <9qfam6$sdj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>c  = "Frank da Cruz" <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> wrote in message / news:9q76m6$sn1$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...r >cL > For somebody who has VMS 1.5-1H1 and UCX 3.0.  Evidently the binary I have > here:  >nC >   ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/bin/ckv192-axp-vms10-ucxxx.exe  > J > is not really what it claims to be, because when they start it, it says: >e; >   ALPHA1:000000>run DKA300:[UTILITIES.SYSTEM]KERMIT.EXE;1 + >   %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image ) >   DKA300:[UTILITIES.SYSTEM]KERMIT.EXE;1hD >   -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file DKA300:[UTILITIES.SYSTEM]KERMIT.EXE;1@ >   -IMGACT-F-NOTNATIVE, image is not an OpenVMS Alpha AXP image > K Hmm. I think it may have been *me* who compiled that binary (it was AXP/VMSeK 1.something and UCX 3.something, but well, it was seven years ago so memory G is a bit hazy). The system I compiled it on ended up in a skip. Sigh...o  J IIRC it was version 1.5 of VMS when I compiled it. It definitely worked (IK tested it before sending it to you), so I suspect some sort of error in thee file transfer here.:  L Of course, although I did compile and send it to you (I remember that much),* you might have used someone else's binary.   -Malcolm8 (back then I would have been mcscs2mm@zippy.dct.ac.uk :)  I > They don't have a C compiler so can't build it themselves.  If you have I > and Alpha with VMS 1.5 or earlier and with DEC C, could you pls contactn > me?  Thanks. >d	 > - Frankn   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 01 13:57:03 EDT From: grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu2 Subject: Preferred port for cluster communications/ Message-ID: <$C+Qjjp2cnnJ@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>T  F We just installed an HSG80 on our VMScluster (alphas).  Performance is5 MUCH better than old CI/HSJ40 (two dual-controllers).e  G To support the cluster traffic being over the LAN instead of the CI, wefF added a second 100 Mbit Ethernet to each CPU.  And, we put these on on2 isolated net, connecting only the cluster systems.  J I found something in the OpenVMS FAQ (MGMT47) which says it is possible toM change the weight on the various ports so that the system will preferentiallyh3 do cluster communications on the preferred ports.  S  K   Each port has a "Load Class" associated with it. ... an adjustment to thet#   load class values is required ...p  L I find the examples for turning off a particular bus completely, but nothingL on how to change the weights -- which we would prefer so the system can fall back if necessary.    Does anyone know how to do this?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2001 17:38:42 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)s6 Subject: Re: Preferred port for cluster communications= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0110151638.3b884cb1@posting.google.com>-  U grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote in message news:<$C+Qjjp2cnnJ@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>...nH > We just installed an HSG80 on our VMScluster (alphas).  Performance is7 > MUCH better than old CI/HSJ40 (two dual-controllers).-  A Just out of curiosity, did you also consider an upgrade to HSJ50s ? (quite cheap nowadays) or HSJ80s?  Was the HSJ80 upgrade optioncF actually more expensive than the HSG80s plus all the FC infrastructure- (FC switches, adapters, cables) they require?n  I > To support the cluster traffic being over the LAN instead of the CI, we-H > added a second 100 Mbit Ethernet to each CPU.  And, we put these on on4 > isolated net, connecting only the cluster systems.  C At this point, you've speeded up the I/O operations.  By moving SCS6F traffic to the LAN, I assume you have in mind to take advantage of theC lower latency of LANs for locking traffic compared with CI.  Do you F see symptoms of locking bottlenecks or performance problems (i.e. highB lock queues, SCS credit waits on VMS$VAXcluster SYSAP connections,3 lots of processes in RWSCS state lots of the time)?t  D BTW, having a dedicated LAN rail for cluster traffic is an excellent0 idea when you are using the LAN for SCS traffic.  L > I found something in the OpenVMS FAQ (MGMT47) which says it is possible toO > change the weight on the various ports so that the system will preferentiallyt5 > do cluster communications on the preferred ports.    > M >   Each port has a "Load Class" associated with it. ... an adjustment to theu% >   load class values is required ...t > N > I find the examples for turning off a particular bus completely, but nothingN > on how to change the weights -- which we would prefer so the system can fall > back if necessary. > " > Does anyone know how to do this?  C If you're running 7.3, you can use the new SCACP program -- see the E 7.3 System Management Utilities manual.  For a good summary of SCACP, E see Verell Boaen's presentation on SCACP from either www.cets2001.org  or www.dfwcug.org (DFW Days).l  ? In case you're not running 7.3, the CSC has available a program = written by Kevin Jenkins of VMS Sustaining Engineering calleduE PORT_CLASS_SETUP, which can change the load class values and redirectsE SCS connections differently than the default SCS priorities.  The waysE the program works is to temporarily set the Load Class rating for ther? interconnect to a value you specify for an SCS port you specifyiE (presumably a higher value for the PEA0 device if you want VMS to use C the LAN in preference to the CI), and then lies to SCS and tells itI= that a new interconnect has just been discovered, and to move D connections to that interconnect if it has a higher Load Class valueF than that of the interconnect presently in use.  After the connections> are shifted, the program sets the Load Class value back to the original value, as I recall.  @ You could also turn off SCS connections over the CI (or DSSI) byC setting PANOPOLL to 1 or by setting PAMAXPORT to a value lower thantD the lowest host-node CI ID, but then you couldn't fail back to CI in* the event of failure of both LAN adapters.C ------------------------------------------------------------------- C Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:cC Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:58:33 GMTc+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>D Subject: Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs?e+ Message-ID: <3BCB37FF.2418E19C@ins-msi.com>r  @ The RRD50 has a Qbus interface, the KRQ50. It is an MSCP device." I think the RRD40 is a SCSI drive.  ; Some versions (all?) of VMS will not install from an RRD50.o  
 Jeff Campbell  n8wxs@arrl.net   sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:- >  > Hello folks: > E > Does anyone have RDD40/RDD50 CD-ROM specs (characteristics) for VAX.H > system?  I am looking for that for booting facility (my VAX emulator). >  > Thank you! >  > -- Tim Stark >  > --4 > Timothy Stark   <><     Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgL > --------------------------------------------------------------------------G > "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, thatnJ > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.0 > Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:58:44 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs?r1 Message-ID: <UdHy7.467$RL6.4297@news.cpqcorp.net>d  Y In article <3BCB37FF.2418E19C@ins-msi.com>, Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> writes:d :sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:  F :> Does anyone have RDD40/RDD50 CD-ROM specs (characteristics) for VAXI :> system?  I am looking for that for booting facility (my VAX emulator).e  K   Q-bus VAX systems generally know about the Mass Storage Control Protocol -L   (MSCP) class driver and the UQSSP (Unibus, QBus Storage System Port) port J   device bootstraps, and about the tape (TMSCP; Tape Mass Storage Control D   Protocol) equivilent.  For diagnostics and such, the memory-based '   (ROM-based bootstraps) are an option.   5   You would thus need to emulate the UQSSP interface.   G   The KRQ50 (Q-bus RRD50 controller), KDA50 (RA/DSA Q-bus controller), tG   KFQSA (Q-bus DSSI widget) and RQDXn (Q-bus RD/DSA controller) series i%   widgets are all UQSSP port devices.h  G   Unfortunately, information and specifications for MSCP and for UQSSP  D   and related are not particularly easy to acquire -- most of these #   documents are (still) restricted.t  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:40:33 GMTy( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs?c' Message-ID: <GL9qzL.At1@spcuna.spc.edu>w  4 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> writes:I >   Unfortunately, information and specifications for MSCP and for UQSSP eF >   and related are not particularly easy to acquire -- most of these % >   documents are (still) restricted.i  G   Hoff, can we put this misinformation to rest once and for all? Take aoJ look at the price file, where you can find QP905-GZ, "UDA50 PROG V1.0 DOC I KIT-ARCHI", $74, and QP906-GZ, "DSA CONTROLLERS V1.0 DOC KIT", $107. BothhF of these are discontinued parts, but that is due to a lack of interestG since no DEC DSA controllers have been manufactured for many years now.lK When they were available, anyone could order them - I have a set somewhere.o  H   Further, DEC contributed the entire Ultrix DSA stack (including the CII drivers) to Berkeley. Some of that showed up (in a bastardized form, withA< the port/class distinctions removed) in later 4BSD releases.  H   Others have used the available information to produce device drivers -7 for example, Steve Schultz added TMSCP support to 2BSD.m  I   As far as I have ever been able to determine, DEC never had any problemeE with people writing drivers for DEC controllers - they did want theiroJ "pound of flesh" (in the form of a patent royalty) if someone built a non- DEC MSCP controller.  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:23:19 GMTC2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs?O1 Message-ID: <X5Ly7.477$RL6.4420@news.cpqcorp.net>   R In article <GL9qzL.At1@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:5 :Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> writes: J :>   Unfortunately, information and specifications for MSCP and for UQSSP G :>   and related are not particularly easy to acquire -- most of these .& :>   documents are (still) restricted. :8B :  Hoff, can we put this misinformation to rest once and for all?   I   This is news to me.  (I really wouldn't mind being wrong here, too. :-)/  N :Take a look at the price file, where you can find QP905-GZ, "UDA50 PROG V1.0 N :DOC KIT-ARCHI", $74, and QP906-GZ, "DSA CONTROLLERS V1.0 DOC KIT", $107. BothG :of these are discontinued parts, but that is due to a lack of interestAH :since no DEC DSA controllers have been manufactured for many years now.L :When they were available, anyone could order them - I have a set somewhere.  G   From what I have gathered, the MSCP specifications were available fora3   a brief interval, but access was then restricted.d  J   The former is listed as a programming kit for the UDA50 itself, but the A   latter (QP906-GZ) is listed as HSC50 maintenance documentation.   5   Do these documents include the MSCP specifications?o  J :  As far as I have ever been able to determine, DEC never had any problemF :with people writing drivers for DEC controllers - they did want theirK :"pound of flesh" (in the form of a patent royalty) if someone built a non-e :DEC MSCP controller.p  K   AFAIK, the MSCP and related specifications and the SCS/CI specifications     are still restricted.  g  6   I've sent an inquiry along to the cluster architect.  J   If these documents are no longer restricted, I'll drop a copy of what I K   have onto the next Freeware, and the folks at DFWCUG might have (or might    want) a copy.n  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:12:51 GMTq( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs?0' Message-ID: <GLA3LF.GBs@spcuna.spc.edu>t  4 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> writes:D > :  Hoff, can we put this misinformation to rest once and for all?  > K >   This is news to me.  (I really wouldn't mind being wrong here, too. :-)v  H   I've been responding similarly each time this comes up. But now that I have your attention... 8-)  P > :Take a look at the price file, where you can find QP905-GZ, "UDA50 PROG V1.0 P > :DOC KIT-ARCHI", $74, and QP906-GZ, "DSA CONTROLLERS V1.0 DOC KIT", $107. BothI > :of these are discontinued parts, but that is due to a lack of interesthJ > :since no DEC DSA controllers have been manufactured for many years now.N > :When they were available, anyone could order them - I have a set somewhere. > I >   From what I have gathered, the MSCP specifications were available fors5 >   a brief interval, but access was then restricted.2  H   There was an internal training kit which was briefly available but wasH then pulled. The QP's I list above were available for a number of years,H before being discontinued for obsolescence. It should be possible to getJ it via the archived document reprint service (if Compaq still offers that). as it _did_ make it into the Kodak POD system.  L >   The former is listed as a programming kit for the UDA50 itself, but the C >   latter (QP906-GZ) is listed as HSC50 maintenance documentation.a >o7 >   Do these documents include the MSCP specifications?a  H   There is a great deal of overlap in those two kits. While I don't haveI 'em handy right now, the second one includes everything in the first plustA a HSC reference card. It definitely isn't the HSC service manual.h  I   These were more of a "so, this is how you write a driver" as opposed to M "here is how the controller is designed", but that's reflected in the titles.oJ The only info that was censored on them was host-initiated BBR, which onlyG applied to the Q-bus products (which weren't the primary focus of thesee manuals, anyway).c  L > :  As far as I have ever been able to determine, DEC never had any problemH > :with people writing drivers for DEC controllers - they did want theirM > :"pound of flesh" (in the form of a patent royalty) if someone built a non-e > :DEC MSCP controller.- >-M >   AFAIK, the MSCP and related specifications and the SCS/CI specifications z >   are still restricted.  -  K   Well, look at the stuff in 4BSD. There's two sets of [T]MSCP stuff there,hF stuff that Chris Torek did and stuff that DEC supplied. As an example,N http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/astaff/reference/4.3network2/sys/vax/vax/tmscp.h says:   A /**************************************************************** A  *                                                              * A  *        Licensed from Digital Equipment Corporation           *oA  *                       Copyright (c)                          *oA  *               Digital Equipment Corporation                  *dA  *                   Maynard, Massachusetts                     * A  *                         1985, 1986                           *pA  *                    All rights reserved.                      *sA  *                                                              *dA  *        The Information in this software is subject to change * A  *   without notice and should not be construed as a commitment *tA  *   by  Digital  Equipment  Corporation.   Digital   makes  no *-A  *   representations about the suitability of this software for * A  *   any purpose.  It is supplied "As Is" without expressed  or *M  *   implied  warranty. 					*  *								*dA  *        If the Regents of the University of California or its *i;  *   licensees modify the software in a manner creating  	*u<  *   diriviative copyright rights, appropriate copyright  	*A  *   legends may be placed on  the drivative work in addition   *l$  *   to that set forth above. 					*  F   That file is directly from the Ultrix source tree - it even includes/ an Ultrix version id as well as a Berkeley one.0  8 >   I've sent an inquiry along to the cluster architect. >tL >   If these documents are no longer restricted, I'll drop a copy of what I M >   have onto the next Freeware, and the folks at DFWCUG might have (or mighta >   want) a copy.S  J   For any previously-unreleased documents, it may be that noone is willingG to take the time to make sure no new information is disclosed. But eveneC getting the discontinued QP's on the Freeware discs would be great.   4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:32:41 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: Scott McNealy has no respect for Alpha'su@ Message-ID: <JeLy7.15958$%B.2037405@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  3 Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 5 news:d7791aa1.0110150531.781567@posting.google.com...l   ...f  L > why don't you wake up ... after looking at the itanium spec results anyoneL > could see itanic was a dud ... intel had to buy alpha to be able to have aF > "working" 64 bit platform ... alpha will live on with the intel logo > on it!  K There's really no effective way to reply to someone so clearly convinced of K his misconceptions.  But the vast preponderance of opinion of people almostHI certainly far better informed than you are is that Intel has no intentionrI whatsoever of doing anything with the Alpha implementation or instruction C set, but just wanted its engineers and some design features (and toi eliminate it as competition).    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:18:31 GMTt4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>" Subject: Re: Socket problem-URGENT@ Message-ID: <HoIy7.169907$bY5.794575@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   No idea.   But...  1 >DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V3.3q) >on a VAX 4000-400 running OpenVMS V5.5-2n  = Thought of upgrading to something more current and supported?t   Matt.s   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2001 15:23:23 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)- Subject: Re: syslog client3 Message-ID: <a+HT6FKb2f2B@eisner.encompasserve.org>P  ? Found it, downloaded it, ran it.  Worked like a charm!  Thanks!e  L In article <9q9pra$cl6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:N > In article <9q9pb6$bbk$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:c >>In article <orA23cuwK$LG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:h= >>>Does anyone have pointers to where I could get some C codet> >>>to do a syslog client for Alpha VMS?  Multinet has a syslogA >>>daemon that can be started and used to receive syslog stuff.  e> >>>I'd like to have programs be able to send stuff to it from @ >>>a C program.  Also, if I had syslog stuff I could get closer 4 >>>to finishing a Big Brother server for Alpha VMS.  >>> D >>>(aside 1, see bb4.com for Big Brother info, a highly configurable0 >>>freeware web based system monitoring utility)G >>>(aside 2, I posted this on the multinet news group a couple of days f  >>>ago and no one has responded) >>>n
 >>>Thanks, >>>Marty >>M >>There is already a public domain SYSLOG daemon for VMS (both VAX and Alpha)p; >>which works with UCX / DEC TCPIP Services (written in C).hA >>I can't recall where I got it from but you can pick it up from , >>% >>ftp://ftp.mdx.ac.uk/vms/syslogd.zipt >> >> >>David Webb >>VMS and Unix team leader >>CCSS >>Middlesex University >  > N > Didn't notice that you wanted a syslog client. However this daemon does alsoM > include a client called LOGGER so that you can test the daemon (again the Cp > source is included). > - > From the documentation (syslogd_ucx.doc) :-n > E > 6. Use LOGGER.EXE to send a message to syslogd and see if it works.i >    For example:t > ! > $ LOGGER:==$your_exe:logger.exer# > $ LOGGER "This is a test message"e >  >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 04:58:50 GMT . From: Chris Bailey <cbailey@nospam.cander.net> Subject: Re: VAX 6400 is downn8 Message-ID: <3ffnst0e6coos6grv367gpn9nul246sj2j@4ax.com>  C Dumb suggestion here,  Check to see if there is any sound deadeningtF foam around the airflow area.  I've seen the adhesive that holds it inC place start breaking down which allows it to temporarily come loose F and block the airflow partially.  The real trick here is that when youF check the foam, it's always laying down nice and neat.  You can tug onD it and it feels like it's firmly attached.  However, heat, vibrationD and massive airflow causes it to come loose and block off the air.    , Dumb suggestion, but might be worth a look.       A On 14 Oct 2001 23:52:48 -0700, hwong@my.ismart.net (hwong) wrote:t  G >Thanks for all the suggestions. We have in fact replaced all the powerl@ >regulators on top of the XMI cage already, but checking the airE >passages to make sure the regulators are being cooled properly seemsl >to make good sense. >r >We will try that tonight. >r` >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BC8DDB1.17402C3@fsi.net>... >> Zelmo Kitowski wrote: >> > rN >> > Have you tried changing out any of the regulators?  I know you said powerO >> > controller, but the regulators on top of the XMI cage fail once in a greatuN >> > while.  Try swapping them one at a time to see if you can isolate the badL >> > one.  Sounds like a sensor, switch or power regulator. These are pretty& >> > good old boxes for the most part. >>  J >> Yeah - I had a problem like that. What happened to us was dust built upD >> in the air passages and prevented the regulators for being cooledK >> properly. Upon removable of the bad one, the dust had to be back-flushedeJ >> out with one of those "jet dusters" (we didn't have an air hose handy).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:11:40 GMTr4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>$ Subject: Re: VMS & Unix connectivity@ Message-ID: <giIy7.169901$bY5.794828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  H > Presumably TCP/IP is running on your Sun machine, and the answer would > be NFS over FTP.    K Of course that shoud say NFS "or" FTP.  NFS does not run over FTP.  HowevermJ NFS can be configured to run over either UDP or TCP, but thats more detail than is needed here.  8 For seemless filesharing, then NFS is the better choice.  K You will need to decide which system will be your NFS server and which willeG be your NFS client.  Refer to the TCP/IP for OpenVMS Network Management 0 Guide for information on configuring NFS on VMS.  K One point to keep in mind is that since NFS is a UNIX (well Sun) invention,lL it identifies users via a UID/GID pair.  The UNIX-style UID/GID is mapped toJ a VMS user via an NFS proxy.  So if you have a VMS username DUMBLY and theJ equivalent user on your Sun is DORE with a UID/GID=143/10, then on VMS you$ will need to add an NFS proxy using:  4     $ TCPIP ADD PROXY DUMBLY/UID=143/GID=10/HOST=SUN  I If you are an NFS Client, then whilst logged in as user DUMBLY, issue theu following type of command:  >     $ TCPIP MOUNT DNFS0: DATA DATA /HOST=SUN /PATH="/usr/data"  H If you are a NFS Server, then you need to make the VMS disks appear like/ UNIX volumes.  To do this issue something like:t  "     $ TCPIP MAP "/data" DISK$DATA:(     $ TCPIP ADD EXPORT "/data" /HOST=SUN  D There's plenty of other options, and you will need to read the TCPIP5 Management Guide to understand all the possibilities.r   Matt.D   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 01:29:43 GMTQ% From: Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net>g$ Subject: Re: VMS & Unix connectivity+ Message-ID: <3BCB8F62.C940A811@pacbell.net>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------500628084F4F0D68B8BB12EA* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   : From VMS TCPIP you could Export "/path/name" vms_file_name4 then from Unix side, do an NFS mount, or visa-versa.? Details are in Part 5 of the Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS- Management at E http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73FINAL/6526/6526pro_contents.htmldH Warning. This can be tricky depending upon such variables as whether you use container files,  F or export a whole disk and if you're using ODS-5 or ODS-2 disks, etc. 6 Suggest you read carefully, try it, then ask for help.	 Good luckl Dono       David Lee wrote: > G > I am trying to network my Alpha ES-40 running VMS 7.2 and Ultra Sparc N > running Solaris 2.6 together but not sure how to do it.  On my Alpha, I have! > both Decnet and TCP/IP running,fL > how would I set it up on these two machines so they can share their disks? >  > Thank you in advance& --------------500628084F4F0D68B8BB12EA- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;1  name="alphase.vcf"t Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykes   Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="alphase.vcf"y   begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Dona x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Alpha Software Express, LLCe
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1n" email;internet:alphase@pacbell.net title:WebmasterI fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcardo  ( --------------500628084F4F0D68B8BB12EA--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:03:48 -0400t- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>d$ Subject: Re: VMS & Unix connectivity, Message-ID: <3BCB9584.BDCDCDE8@peoplepc.com>   Matt Muggeridge wrote: <snip>M > You will need to decide which system will be your NFS server and which willt > be your NFS client.  h <snip>  J Well, actually, no you don't.  It is possible to configure your VMS and/orL Unix system to be both a NFS server and a client of each other.  It amy seem, strange but it can be done and it does work.     -- -  
 Jack Patteeuw-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:53:59 -0400c  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>8 Subject: Re: VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 produces ugly PCSI crash4 Message-ID: <1011015144352.471A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, David Spencer wrote:e  u > In article <121020012241417591%spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>, David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com> wrote:n > P > > Title pretty much says it all. I'm running an Alpha workstation (AS 255/300)P > > with VMS 7.2-1. Tried to install the update and get the attached crash. I'veQ > > updated other systems without difficulties. There's obviously something amissiK > > with my configuration, but what?? Hints would be most appreciated... :)d > >  > > -- Dave Spencer  > >  > > $ product install *0 > > > > >    1 - CPQ AXPVMS CSWS V1.1                Layered Product> > >    2 - CPQ AXPVMS PERL V5.5-3A2            Layered ProductI > >    3 - DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0       Patch (maintenance update)w$ > >    4 - All products listed above > >    5 - Exito > > A > > Choose one or more items from the menu separated by commas: 3i > > , > > The following product has been selected:I > >     DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0          Patch (maintenance update)t > > " > > Do you want to continue? [YES] > > $ > > Configuration phase starting ... > > R > > You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and forS > > any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency requirements.r > > = > > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0: OpenVMS V7.2-1 UPDATE V3.0e > >   > > Execution phase starting ...z > > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=000000000000014C, PC=00000000001074D8, PS=0000001B3 > > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsrN > >   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC: > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_CONTROL  spiu_trim_idle_productsS > >                                          7681 0000000000001E58 00000000001074D8<A > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_CONTROL  spiu_collate_product_executioneS > >                                          8653 0000000000003450 0000000000108AD0 : > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_CONTROL  spiu_initiate_executionS > >                                          9574 000000000000465C 0000000000109CDC-6 > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_TOTAL  spiu_form_total_orderS > >                                          7387 00000000000033D4 0000000000116BA4G0 > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_API_OPERATIONS  spiu_installS > >                                          8113 00000000000026F4 00000000000C7EA4n- > >  PCSI$MAIN  UICOMMON  UIexecute_operation(S > >                                         20686 0000000000002540 0000000000044CE0y. > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  DCLconfigureS > >                                         21589 0000000000000D0C 000000000003746C,5 > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  process_DCL_commandZS > >                                         25082 0000000000007F74 000000000003E6D4 - > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  process_DCL S > >                                         25268 00000000000085B8 000000000003ED18iS > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  main      27242 000000000000C028 0000000000042788tS > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  __main        0 0000000000000094 00000000000367F4wS > >                                             0 FFFFFFFF82F213D4 FFFFFFFF82F213D4b > > $w > 7 > I should have included my product history. Here goes:u >  > $ product show histgR > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------K > PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIMEoR > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------R > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PCSI V1.0         Patch       Install     25-SEP-2001 21:30:35  " Okay, you've got the PCSI patch...  R > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PTHREAD V1.0      Patch       Install     09-DEC-1999 16:17:30R > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_SYS V1.0          Patch       Install     04-DEC-1999 10:23:44R > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_F11X V1.0         Patch       Install     04-DEC-1999 10:23:09R > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2-1   Full LP     Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1           Platform    Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10            Full LP     Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1               Oper System Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1-2   Full LP     Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1-2           Platform    Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V1.0    Patch       Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32R > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21              Full LP     Remove      21-AUG-1999 17:46:36R > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5           Full LP     Install     29-JUL-1999 21:49:37R > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4           Full LP     Remove      29-JUL-1999 21:49:37R > DEC AXPVMS VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V1.0    Patch       Install     29-JUL-1999 21:35:25R > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Reconfigure 07-JAN-1999 00:02:17R > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1-2   Full LP     Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1-2           Platform    Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21              Full LP     Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1     Full LP     Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1             Platform    Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.1-12              Full LP     Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1                 Oper System Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59R > DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.1-1           Full LP     Install     25-JUN-1998 12:22:16R > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1     Full LP     Install     24-JUN-1998 23:34:18R > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4           Full LP     Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09R > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1             Platform    Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09R > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.1-12              Full LP     Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09R > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1                 Oper System Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09R > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- -------------------- >  0 > 31 items found > $q >  > Thanks again,s >  > -- Dave Spencer   C The only other thing that comes to mind is a corrupted or truncated B PCSI file.  (Not transfered in binary mode, or the FTP died in theE middle and left a short file.)  VMSINSTAL kits were backup save-sets,uB so you had the XOR groups and CRC checks to verify it was complete7 and intact, but I don't know if PCSI has an equivalent.   > Another thing that can bite you...  Some versions of somethingB on Windows (Internet Exploder?) will download a ".PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE"? file as ".PCSI" (truncates the file type at the "-".  So if you @ download to a PC and then FTP it to your Alpha, you might end upB with a .PCSI file that isn't one.  You need to run it to expand itB back to a .PCSI file.  (Rename the compressed executable first, so$ that you and it don't get confused!)  ? You did say that you had installed the update on other systems,e> so unless you downloaded it again, you probably do have a good? file, but I'm posting this just in case, and for the benefit of.
 posterity.   HTH.   -- b John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:30:39 +0200y  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>8 Subject: Re: VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 produces ugly PCSI crash+ Message-ID: <VA.0000047f.0785857d@sture.ch>i  G In article <1011015144352.471A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos wrote:n+ > On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, David Spencer wrote:u > w > > In article <121020012241417591%spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>, David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com> wrote:- > > R > > > Title pretty much says it all. I'm running an Alpha workstation (AS 255/300)R > > > with VMS 7.2-1. Tried to install the update and get the attached crash. I'veS > > > updated other systems without difficulties. There's obviously something amiss M > > > with my configuration, but what?? Hints would be most appreciated... :)- > > >  > > > -- Dave Spencero > > >  > > > $ product install *t > > > @ > > >    1 - CPQ AXPVMS CSWS V1.1                Layered Product@ > > >    2 - CPQ AXPVMS PERL V5.5-3A2            Layered ProductK > > >    3 - DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0       Patch (maintenance update) & > > >    4 - All products listed above > > >    5 - Exit  > > > C > > > Choose one or more items from the menu separated by commas: 3: > > > . > > > The following product has been selected:K > > >     DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0          Patch (maintenance update)> > > > $ > > > Do you want to continue? [YES] > > > & > > > Configuration phase starting ... > > > T > > > You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and forU > > > any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency requirements.b > > > ? > > > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0: OpenVMS V7.2-1 UPDATE V3.0s > > > " > > > Execution phase starting ...| > > > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=000000000000014C, PC=00000000001074D8, PS=0000001B5 > > > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followseP > > >   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC< > > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_CONTROL  spiu_trim_idle_productsU > > >                                          7681 0000000000001E58 00000000001074D8PC > > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_CONTROL  spiu_collate_product_executiontU > > >                                          8653 0000000000003450 0000000000108AD0 < > > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_CONTROL  spiu_initiate_executionU > > >                                          9574 000000000000465C 0000000000109CDCl8 > > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_ORDER_TOTAL  spiu_form_total_orderU > > >                                          7387 00000000000033D4 0000000000116BA4_2 > > >  PCSI$SHR  SPIU_API_OPERATIONS  spiu_installU > > >                                          8113 00000000000026F4 00000000000C7EA4g/ > > >  PCSI$MAIN  UICOMMON  UIexecute_operation U > > >                                         20686 0000000000002540 0000000000044CE0 0 > > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  DCLconfigureU > > >                                         21589 0000000000000D0C 000000000003746CX7 > > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  process_DCL_command4U > > >                                         25082 0000000000007F74 000000000003E6D4 / > > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  process_DCLsU > > >                                         25268 00000000000085B8 000000000003ED18sU > > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  main      27242 000000000000C028 0000000000042788oU > > >  PCSI$MAIN  SPIU_COMMAND_VMS  __main        0 0000000000000094 00000000000367F4iU > > >                                             0 FFFFFFFF82F213D4 FFFFFFFF82F213D4n > > > $f > > 9 > > I should have included my product history. Here goes:  > >  > > $ product show hist,T > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------M > > PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIMEcT > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PCSI V1.0         Patch       Install     25-SEP-2001 21:30:35 > $ > Okay, you've got the PCSI patch... > T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PTHREAD V1.0      Patch       Install     09-DEC-1999 16:17:30T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_SYS V1.0          Patch       Install     04-DEC-1999 10:23:44T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS721_F11X V1.0         Patch       Install     04-DEC-1999 10:23:09T > > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2-1   Full LP     Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1           Platform    Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10            Full LP     Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1               Oper System Install     21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1-2   Full LP     Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1-2           Platform    Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V1.0    Patch       Remove      21-AUG-1999 18:05:32T > > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21              Full LP     Remove      21-AUG-1999 17:46:36T > > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5           Full LP     Install     29-JUL-1999 21:49:37T > > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4           Full LP     Remove      29-JUL-1999 21:49:37T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V1.0    Patch       Install     29-JUL-1999 21:35:25T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Reconfigure 07-JAN-1999 00:02:17T > > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1-2   Full LP     Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1-2           Platform    Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21              Full LP     Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Install     06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1     Full LP     Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1             Platform    Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.1-12              Full LP     Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1                 Oper System Remove      06-JAN-1999 23:22:59T > > DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.1-1           Full LP     Install     25-JUN-1998 12:22:16T > > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.1     Full LP     Install     24-JUN-1998 23:34:18T > > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4           Full LP     Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09T > > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1             Platform    Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09T > > DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.1-12              Full LP     Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09T > > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1                 Oper System Install     24-JUN-1998 23:28:09T > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- -------------------- > >  - > > 31 items found > > $  > >  > > Thanks again,  > >  > > -- Dave Spencerr > E > The only other thing that comes to mind is a corrupted or truncatedfD > PCSI file.  (Not transfered in binary mode, or the FTP died in theG > middle and left a short file.)  VMSINSTAL kits were backup save-sets, D > so you had the XOR groups and CRC checks to verify it was complete9 > and intact, but I don't know if PCSI has an equivalent.e > @ > Another thing that can bite you...  Some versions of somethingD > on Windows (Internet Exploder?) will download a ".PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE"A > file as ".PCSI" (truncates the file type at the "-".  So if youtB > download to a PC and then FTP it to your Alpha, you might end upD > with a .PCSI file that isn't one.  You need to run it to expand it > back to a .PCSI file.  o  E I'll note that I've seen this misnaming behaviour using Netscape too.i    - > (Rename the compressed executable first, so & > that you and it don't get confused!) >8A Sound advice. The default for the decompressed file is version ;1aF so if you've gone through a few iterations, the resultant file may notJ be the highest version number, so you get the installation errors all over again.  A > You did say that you had installed the update on other systems, @ > so unless you downloaded it again, you probably do have a goodA > file, but I'm posting this just in case, and for the benefit of8 > posterity. >  > HTH. >-   ___-
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:34:40 GMTc, From: "Paul Dennis" <comedyox@earthlink.not>< Subject: Which source file was compiled to make this object?C Message-ID: <AgLy7.3575$cy.286657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>    Hello,  I We've got an object library to port but many sets of source files for it.d   CALSS.  If I do this --n  + $ libr/extr=<module>/out=<module> <library>a $ ana/obj/out=1.anae $ cc <qualifiers> <source> $ ana/obj/out=2.ana <source> $ diff 1.ana 2.ana  F -- for each module, can I expect a DIFFERENCES to reveal only the fileF name/date-time differences if the source file I select is the one that produced the original object?s  K Am I gonna have to dive into the VAX Object Language appendix of the Linkern manual to resolve this?c  I I am compiling with the same version of the compiler as the one that made,H the object in the library (VAX C V3.0) and using the same version of VMS	 (V5.4-3).s   Thanks for any and all help, .pd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 01:38:00 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m@ Subject: Re: Which source file was compiled to make this object?, Message-ID: <3BCBC7B6.93EF2937@videotron.ca>   Paul Dennis wrote:K > We've got an object library to port but many sets of source files for it.1  J Had to do those for an old Data General system a few years ago. About 1000L source files in various directories that had been maintained by some student9 over the years, multiple copies of everything everywhere.u  N I matched source to executable by dates of the files. When there were multipleL files in different directories with the same date as the executable, I wouldL then use DIFF and use my judgement to decide which one most likely to be the
 real file.  L For the file definition modules, I "mechanically" converted them to FMS formL descriptions and used ALL-IN-1 to map the form to the data and verified that) the file formats matched the actual data.d  M To match the dates of the executables and files, I used ALL-IN-1 datasets andEJ scripts to generate an index of source files for each executable,  showingM file name and dates allowing me to view contents, DIFF the files etc etc, and0H once I had identified the most likely candidate, that file would then beM copied to the new production area after having automatically been modified tor4 add comments on where the file originally came from.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 01:54:26 -04007- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>S& Subject: X programming tools (UIL etc), Message-ID: <3BCBCB8F.85CEAF9C@videotron.ca>  K Are there tools to create UIL files with WISYWIG interface, or is one truly_6 expected to create UIL files with just a text editor ?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.575 ************************