1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 17 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 578       Contents:& Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin& Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin& Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin& Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: Alphaserver 1000a  Re: Alphaserver 1000a  re: AMD's Itanion 4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  Re: DECNET ping equivalent? C Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?) C Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?) 9 Re: Device Allocation and RWAST (was: Re: Stop a process) 3 Re: DS10 6/600's in stock with NEW VMS EIP Licenses 6 Re: ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again6 Re: ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS present now! Re: GBLPAGES in VMS V7.3 Re: Global symbol  Re: Global symbol  Re: Global symbol & Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors0 Re: Ingres (Was: Re: jobs? ingres vax/vms cobol) make files on OpenVMS  Re: make files on OpenVMS & More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger Re: MOZILLA 0.9.5 & Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections& Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections& Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections& Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections& Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections& Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections& Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections) multinet IP address and host.local change 5 OpenVMS Jobs (Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors) 9 Re: OpenVMS Jobs (Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors)  RAID RA3000 & H22agent2 Re: Slightly OT - how failed computers kill ships.2 Re: Slightly OT - how failed computers kill ships. Re: Stop a process Re: Stop a process  TCPIP HTTP EXITING BEFORE SOCKET Re: VMS & Unix connectivity " Re: VMS future, a sense of deja vu* Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication* Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication* Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication* Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # RE: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS # Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS  web site with ways to hack vms* Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centre* Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centre* Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centre writing to shared files   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2001 04:47 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) / Subject: Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin - Message-ID: <17OCT200104471916@gerg.tamu.edu>   ) medleyb@flash.net (Bert Medley) writes... L }I inherited a DecServer 3000 and some 9GB disks.  OpenVMS "sees" the disks K }and I can do a SHOW DEVICE /FULL but when I try to INIT it I get "invalid   }media format"  HELP!!!!!   I The typical reason for this is that you are running a version of VMS that  is insufficiently new.  D You didn't say what version you are running. If it is before V7 thenD this is probably the problem. I'd suggest going to at least 7.1-x orH newer.  The newer SCSI drivers which come with the newer versions of VMSF deal with random drives much better than the older versions, the newer the better.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:34:27 GMT % From: medleyb@flash.net (Bert Medley) / Subject: Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin : Message-ID: <Xns913D5764311medleybflashnet@207.115.63.150>  + bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in 2 <d7791aa1.0110161246.ce6b2cb@posting.google.com>:   1 >medleyb@flash.net (Bert Medley) wrote in message 9 >news:<Xns913C64773127medleybflashnet@207.115.63.150>...  G >> I inherited a DecServer 3000 and some 9GB disks.  OpenVMS "sees" the I >> disks and I can do a SHOW DEVICE /FULL but when I try to INIT it I get $ >> "invalid media format"  HELP!!!!! >   >are these vms compatible disks?5 >what is the exact vms init command you are entering?  >what version of vms? 2 >what firmware version are you running (pal code)? >are these scsi disks? > C >sounds like the disks are not supported or your firmware or device  >drivers need updated!   The vendor said they were )  INIT $!$DKB300: USER3  VMS 7.3  Latest firmware/PALcode  Yes    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:34:52 GMT % From: medleyb@flash.net (Bert Medley) / Subject: Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin < Message-ID: <Xns913D57766636Cmedleybflashnet@207.115.63.150>   I'm running OpenVMS 7.3   I Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in <3BCCF9F4.7FAE7F24  @cableinet.co.uk>:   >  >  >Fabio Cardoso wrote:  >>  0 >> What machine are you connecting these disks ? >>  7 >> Alpha ? Vax ? You should check if the controller and 2 >> firmware support these disks (model), and maybe >> these disks can be bad. >>   > 7 >Also check VMS version. If its a turbochannel alpha as G >I suspect then the VMS might be old enough to not support those disks.  > 
 >> Regards >>   >> FC - >> --- Bert Medley <medleyb@flash.net> wrote: 4 >>> I inherited a DecServer 3000 and some 9GB disks. >>> OpenVMS "sees" the disks6 >>> and I can do a SHOW DEVICE /FULL but when I try to >>> INIT it I get "invalid >>> media format"  HELP!!!!! >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:35:28 GMT % From: medleyb@flash.net (Bert Medley) / Subject: Re: -- Question from a newbie sysadmin < Message-ID: <Xns913D5790A5DC6medleybflashnet@207.115.63.150>  7 I'm running OpenVMS 7.3 and the latest firmware/PALcode   * carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in# <17OCT200104471916@gerg.tamu.edu>:    + > medleyb@flash.net (Bert Medley) writes... G > }I inherited a DecServer 3000 and some 9GB disks.  OpenVMS "sees" the I > disks }and I can do a SHOW DEVICE /FULL but when I try to INIT it I get $ > "invalid }media format"  HELP!!!!! > F > The typical reason for this is that you are running a version of VMS > that is insufficiently new.  > F > You didn't say what version you are running. If it is before V7 thenF > this is probably the problem. I'd suggest going to at least 7.1-x orF > newer.  The newer SCSI drivers which come with the newer versions ofF > VMS deal with random drives much better than the older versions, the > newer the better.  > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:44:36 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 8 Message-ID: <5jkqsts1h8soaq2um62d7cecb5ouggqvb1@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:00:11 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:     >  > K >Have you really looked at the *kernel*?  Not all the Windows cruft grafted M >on top of it?  In many ways it is a thing of beauty.  It is when you add the D >WIndows executive environment on top of it that the problems arise.  B And given how stable NT manages to be compared to the Win 95/98/MEB codebase it has to retain compatibility with it must be close to aB work of genius. Cutler is quoted in Showstopper as saying it would? have ben even better f he could have completed the work at DEC.      -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:52:21 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000a1 Message-ID: <yWgz7.590$RL6.5264@news.cpqcorp.net>   J The Mach64 is an ISA card (generally, although there may also have been anF EISA card - check the edge fingers to see which it is).  ISA cards areL configured manually in the ECU.  The ECU for VMS *has* all the proper things! on it to allow the configuration.   I Dimond (if I remember right) used to sell the S3 Trio64.  But pretty much # any S3 Trio64 based card will work.       G Dennis Grevenstein wrote in message <3BCCA33F.D24F9242@pcde.inka.de>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >>J >> The Mach64 should work.  What's the problem?  I would stick a Trio64 in it, F >> it is much simpler to configure (if you have a PCI slot available). > ? >The Mach64 does not work without the proper .CFG files for the  >EISA configuration utility.B >A Trio64 will be my next try. I will get an older card from Elsa.0 >I hope it's just the graphics chip that counts. >  >Dennis    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:27:28 +0200 . From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de> Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000a, Message-ID: <3BCDBF80.D5501DD7@pcde.inka.de>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > L > The Mach64 is an ISA card (generally, although there may also have been anH > EISA card - check the edge fingers to see which it is).  ISA cards areN > configured manually in the ECU.  The ECU for VMS *has* all the proper things# > on it to allow the configuration.   E Allright, but I don't have the proper ECU. I only have an old version A that does not contain the CFG file and that seems to be generally " too old. I found this README file:A http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/ecu/mach64_readme.txt   B It does not work when I copy the CFG file to another disk, becauseF the ECU wants to copy some files from the ECU disk that can't be found on my ECU disk. < Therefore I asked here for a recent version of the ECU disk.> The files that Kari sent me did not work at all, unfortunatly.   Dennis   --  @ Hi ,  I have a SiliconGraphics Indy station   and I want to know? if I can install something like OpenBSD or Solaris on it and if , Yes which version..  sparc, amiga, sun3..  ?>                                        read in comp.unix.admin   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:06:24 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>  Subject: re: AMD's Itanion6 Message-ID: <00A03A84.3956610A.4@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   > 3 > Do you know if AMD will launch their ouwn 64 bits % > processor compatible with Itanium ?  > " > Like, Athlon, Duron, Itanion ... >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   >    I believe the answer is no.   E What they are doing, "Hammer", is very interesting. It's  a processor E that extends the IA32 architecture to 64 bits without breaking 32-bit D binary compatibility. It's also got an on-die memory controller withI interprocessor bus built in. Object code aside, it seems to have imported * a lot of good ideas from the Alpha school.  H You'll find a lot of stuff about this processor on the net, and IMO it'sE got at least some chance of living up to the codename that AMD didn't  dare give it: "Iceberg".       	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."   = PS just spotted interview with AMD's Fred Weber about hammer: * www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/22278.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:49:22 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> = Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk $ Message-ID: <3bcdc4d4$1@news.si.com>  : What is there about ODS-5 that makes it undoable on a VAX? --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:53:47 -0400 2 From: "Gary E. Green" <gegreen@dra-consulting.com>$ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?8 Message-ID: <3bcd6501$0$35578$f92e4de5@news.stratos.net>  
 I usually use L "mcr ncp tell &nodename show exec" as at least a moral equivalent to "ping".   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 06:56:42 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110170556.76430edb@posting.google.com>   m "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> wrote in message news:<1GYy7.612$UD1.17078@news-west.eli.net>... E > Is there an equivalent to the unix ping for DECNET phase IV to test D > connectivity to a remote node without using TCP/IP?  I'm using DIR7 > NODE::DUAn:[DIR] but wonder if there's a cheaper way.  >  > -Frank Brown > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/   $ mcr ncp sh kno nod   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:38:38 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> $ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?/ Message-ID: <3BCDA56B.C7580425@cableinet.co.uk>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > o > "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> wrote in message news:<1GYy7.612$UD1.17078@news-west.eli.net>... G > > Is there an equivalent to the unix ping for DECNET phase IV to test F > > connectivity to a remote node without using TCP/IP?  I'm using DIR9 > > NODE::DUAn:[DIR] but wonder if there's a cheaper way.  > >  > > -Frank Brown > > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/ >  > $ mcr ncp sh kno nod  F nope, that just lists the nodes defined in the local database, surely.   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:13:32 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com$ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?/ Message-ID: <00256AE8.005EA0AC.00@quegw01.btyp>   L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    L Well, strictly speaking it DOES denote whether the node is reachable or not.   Cheers   Steve Spires        G Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> on 10/17/2001 03:38:38 PM     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) O From:      Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>, 17 October 2001, 3:38             p.m.    Re: DECNET ping equivalent?              Bob Ceculski wrote:  > ? > "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> wrote in message / news:<1GYy7.612$UD1.17078@news-west.eli.net>... G > > Is there an equivalent to the unix ping for DECNET phase IV to test F > > connectivity to a remote node without using TCP/IP?  I'm using DIR9 > > NODE::DUAn:[DIR] but wonder if there's a cheaper way.  > >  > > -Frank Brown > > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/ >  > $ mcr ncp sh kno nod  F nope, that just lists the nodes defined in the local database, surely.   -- Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   B Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:40:11 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> $ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?/ Message-ID: <3BCDB3DD.B6EDD5FA@cableinet.co.uk>   ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:  > N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza > N > Well, strictly speaking it DOES denote whether the node is reachable or not. > D but does it reach out and "touch" the requested node like ping does?B Maybe I am wrong and it does, can't test at the moment as I am VMS	 deprived.   @ Anyway, you don't get packet loss figures like you do with ping.   regards    > Cheers >  > Steve Spires > I > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> on 10/17/2001 03:38:38 PM  > " > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) Q > From:      Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>, 17 October 2001, 3:387 >            p.m.0 >  > Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:y > >nA > > "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> wrote in messagew1 > news:<1GYy7.612$UD1.17078@news-west.eli.net>...nI > > > Is there an equivalent to the unix ping for DECNET phase IV to test0H > > > connectivity to a remote node without using TCP/IP?  I'm using DIR; > > > NODE::DUAn:[DIR] but wonder if there's a cheaper way.t > > >  > > > -Frank Brown  > > > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/ > >  > > $ mcr ncp sh kno nod > H > nope, that just lists the nodes defined in the local database, surely. >  > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukd > D > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.    -- 6 Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  c  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of 5! my employers or service provider.r   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 12:38:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o$ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?3 Message-ID: <lyHalEodrI0U@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  e In article <3BCDB3DD.B6EDD5FA@cableinet.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:  >  > # > Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:l >> rO >> Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazac >> sO >> Well, strictly speaking it DOES denote whether the node is reachable or not.m >> oF > but does it reach out and "touch" the requested node like ping does?D > Maybe I am wrong and it does, can't test at the moment as I am VMS > deprived.a > B > Anyway, you don't get packet loss figures like you do with ping.  E DECnet does not support a user interface for sending isolated packetspC like UDP.  Therefore any packet loss will be recorded in your localf error counters.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:36:21 -0700e' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> L Subject: Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?)+ Message-ID: <3BCDA575.E36D2ED2@caltech.edu>i   Hoff Hoffman wrote:e  g > In article <3BCC6D12.D1121E5B@cableinet.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:e > :h > :Hoff Hoffman wrote: >oN > :>   I have worked with folks that have wanted to customize specific OpenVMSO > :>   components, and I have acquired the necessary sanction for and have theno/ > :>   provided the source code to these folks.s > : : > :do they replicate the VMS engineering build environment >xI >   No.  The build environment is very large and very complex, and I knowrK >   of only a handful of internal systems that have replicated it.  (I have7K >   one of these replicants, and am familiar with cloning the environment.)t  S Whatever happened to KISS?  Legend has it that pieces of VMS are written in about aeX dozen different languages.  That _may_ have made sense at one time, but it does not now.g Reducing this as far as possible, ideally to one (ANSI C?), would seem like a good idea. Then a port toe a newMZ platform would only require one or two compilers, and not 12.  And  OS developers wouldn'th have to work in so many different languages.  I've got nothing against variety, but in my own experience  e when I have to switch continuously between one language and another I tend to make many more mistakes-/ than when steadily programming in one language.7   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 11:08:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eL Subject: Re: Developers and End-Users? (was: Re: A free VMS implementation?)3 Message-ID: <tM88odMl1Hq2@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  U In article <3BCDA575.E36D2ED2@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:!  U > Whatever happened to KISS?  Legend has it that pieces of VMS are written in about afZ > dozen different languages.  That _may_ have made sense at one time, but it does not now.i > Reducing this as far as possible, ideally to one (ANSI C?), would seem like a good idea. Then a port to  > a newn\ > platform would only require one or two compilers, and not 12.  And  OS developers wouldn'tj > have to work in so many different languages.  I've got nothing against variety, but in my own experience > g > when I have to switch continuously between one language and another I tend to make many more mistakesm1 > than when steadily programming in one language.o  4 Languages should be used in their appropriate place.  8 I believe C++ is used in the GUI for controlling Galaxy.6 C++ would be inappropriate for the QIO system service.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:24:08 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)B Subject: Re: Device Allocation and RWAST (was: Re: Stop a process)1 Message-ID: <Igiz7.598$RL6.5263@news.cpqcorp.net>?  Z In article <9qk2bk$3hs4@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com> writes:G :Actually it's an SLS job, when I want to stop the job in the middle, IdL :delete the entry from the queue. But the entry will faill into the abortingK :state and the process sometimes falls into the RWAST state and sometime asaK :LEF, but the process will change to the suspend mode and the tape drive it1M :is allocating cannot be deallocated. If I try to dismount/abort/ov=check for-C :the tape drive, the drive will change to "mount dismounted" state.e  J   Please contact the Compaq Customer Support Center (CSC) for assistance, 4   as there is apparently an I/O getting lost here.    E   There is deliberately no direct way to resolve this, as OpenVMS hashI   detected and error and is effectively stuck in a self-protective state.cH   (Something in the hardware or in kernel-mode code has messed up here, E   and OpenVMS has detected the error and is trying to avoid crashing.tF   Unfortunately, a process that is stuck in run-down also "stuffs up"     the device allocation status.)  H   You are relatively unlikely to resolve this problem in this forum, as F   far more detail will be required than is likely possible for you to @   provide here.  Sometimes, access to a forced dump is required.  G   There have been kernel-mode hacks to forcibly deallocate an allocated-I   device, but the incidence of this problem on OpenVMS Alpha -- with the lH   current ECO kits are applied, when (mis)use of SHARE privilege is not E   involved, and when devices are at current firmware revisions -- is nB   comparatively low, hence the tools are not directly distributed.  H   The AMDS tool (and its replacement package, Availability Manager) can G   sometimes be used to resolve quota-related process hangs.  AMDS (and  H   AM) is licensed with OpenVMS, though the tool is separately installed.D   I strongly recommend all sites install and configure AMDS (or AM).D   Details are included in a manual in the OpenVMS documentation set.  $ :I am using VMS 7.2-1 on Alpha 8400.  K   The folks at the CSC will want to know rather more -- including specific nH   details of the process, the process quotas, the system configuration, I   the SLS version, the tape drive manufacturer and model, the tape drive ME   firmware version, the interconnect bus and controller involved, theeE   mandatory and related non-mandatory OpenVMS ECO kits that have beena&   applied to the system (if any), etc.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 14:55:06 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)< Subject: Re: DS10 6/600's in stock with NEW VMS EIP Licenses* Message-ID: <3bcd7faa$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  b In article <tsgm07ft2p3haa@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:B >We have 4 of these in stock - These are in extremely short supply >e, >In Unused condition with 12 months warranty >- >DS10 6/600-, >256MB DEC (not installed - for maintenance)1 >1GB Memory (Camintonn carries lifetime warranty)z6 >18GB 10KRPM U2SCSI (Seagate carries 3 Years warranty) >Ultra2 SCSI Controllers >High Speed CD ROM and FLoppy  >3DLabs Oxygen VX1 32MB PCIu >All Cabling includedb >LK46W-A2 VMS Style Keyboard >3 Button Mousee >h >Price each is $7599  5 Why is this system more expensive than your offer at:a  . 	http://www.islandco.com/specials/ds10-600.htm  * DS10/600/512MB/16GB SCSI/VX1/VMS-EIP	$63994 $1200 for 512MB RAM more doesn't seem appropriate...   Just curious   -- k< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888c< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:14:06 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)? Subject: Re: ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1710011314090001@user-2ive64e.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3BCCDEED.E200CC04@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"s <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Here's the URL:1 > O > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?1016tupmh >  > No mention of VMS.   It does mention VMS:  I "The ES45 is a four-way Unix server capable of running Compaq's Tru64 andi9 OpenVMS operating systems, as well as Linux, Kahle said."E   -- V Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:19:17 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t? Subject: Re: ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS present now!d8 Message-ID: <kjmqstgt2hjr1eu5403pasd778uqmoa3fl@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:29:17 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"y <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Here's the URL: >oN >http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?1016tupm >  >No mention of VMS.c   I just read it and it says:h  E "The ES45 is a four-way Unix server capable of running Compaq's Tru64 = and OpenVMS operating systems, as well as Linux, Kahle said."t  D Kalhle being "Jackie Kahle, vice president of marketing for Compaq's" high-performance system division."  A Has someone contacted them and had it corrected? If so well done.a    4 >Chalk up another one for Compaq marketing "no how". >0C >No misspelling there: Who's gonna market VMS? As they said in "The ) >Wizard of Oz", "Not nobody, not no how!"A   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 06:04:52 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t! Subject: Re: GBLPAGES in VMS V7.3,3 Message-ID: <e9OlHrh5GETQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <cV3z7.538$RL6.4519@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  K >   Another related change in V7.3: OpenVMS Engineering stuffed all of the aK >   pageable and the non-pageable OpenVMS executive into the same quantity bJ >   of memory formerly required for just the non-pageable executive -- we J >   got rid of the pageable memory requirements for the executive, and we I >   improved overall system performance by eliminating all paging of the m >   executive.   Presumably only on Alpha.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:29:30 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>h Subject: Re: Global symbol/ Message-ID: <tsrfvq2d92m7ef@corp.supernews.com>   > Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:M :>: You can also do an IF .NOT. $STATUS THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SOMETHING WENTt
 :>: WRONG"   :>Wouldn't you want   :>	if (.not. ($STATUS .and. 1))   D : Only if you like adding unnecessary processing to your procedures.   Unnecessary?  ' Isn't any even $STATUS value a failure?    -- r -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 12:41:27 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)2 Subject: Re: Global symbol3 Message-ID: <J15evkFaW2N3@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  a In article <tsrfvq2d92m7ef@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: @ > Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:O > :>: You can also do an IF .NOT. $STATUS THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SOMETHING WENTi > :>: WRONG" >  > :>Wouldn't you want " > :>	if (.not. ($STATUS .and. 1))  > F > : Only if you like adding unnecessary processing to your procedures. >  > Unnecessary? > ) > Isn't any even $STATUS value a failure?0   That is correct.  3 IF .NOT. $STATUS will detect any even status value.C  C Perhaps you are thinking of some other programming language instead. of DCL.  If so, it isn't Bliss.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:47:26 -0400w0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> Subject: Re: Global symbol5 Message-ID: <brjz7.69772$TW.367131@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>n  E Boolean IF constructs like these work like an implicit .AND. 1 .EQ. 1p  L IF X THEN is the same as IF X .AND. 1 .EQ. 1 THEN is the same as IF X .AND.1 THEN   I sometimes do things like: ? $ FOUND = F$SEARCH("SOMEFILE.LIS") .NES. ""       ! file existslI $ BIG = F$FILE("SOMEFILE.LIS","EOF") .GT. 1000    ! Bigger than 1000 blksD $ IF FOUND .AND. BIG THEN ...c   --   SyltremuI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)e> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  I "Michael Zarlenga" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> a crit dans le message news:i$ tsrfvq2d92m7ef@corp.supernews.com...@ > Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:J > :>: You can also do an IF .NOT. $STATUS THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SOMETHING WENT > :>: WRONG" >  > :>Wouldn't you want ! > :> if (.not. ($STATUS .and. 1))b >,F > : Only if you like adding unnecessary processing to your procedures. >p > Unnecessary? >n) > Isn't any even $STATUS value a failure?  >v > -- > -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:01:10 +0100v% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>C/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors08 Message-ID: <5thqstgjjrceas88jadnsgspovarqsqdd3@4ax.com>  A On 16 Oct 2001 07:50:01 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)n wrote:    G >you just hit the nail on the head ... windows will always be a client, I >but never a server environment ... unless they plan a rewrite after they  >get done with IIS ...  D And here I'll hit the nail on the head and say that Compaq sales areF *not allowed* to make a statement such as the one above.  And clueless= senior management outnumber technical senior management in my C experience. If Compaq (well DEC at the time) sales come in and tellwF non IT-literate management that NT is a better server OS than VMS thenC they believe them. My immediate previous employer got rid of VMS in D favour of NT/Alpha (hahah!) thanks to Compaq sales advising that was the way to go.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:22:46 +0100w% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorse8 Message-ID: <4liqstoobpn8cn82ab7r6vumh7a3jlrchb@4ax.com>  A On 16 Oct 2001 08:19:02 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)s wrote:  B >i am tired of hearing these price winers ... if you want the bestD >you have to pay for it ... vms and alpha are not commodity hardwareE >and software like pc junk ... and we are willing to pay for security D >and reliability and not have the nightmare of running 1000 nt boxesH >instead of one alpha like some idiot suggested in this topic previouslyJ >to be able to adequately support multiple users and instances of apps ...J >it's like the saying goes when it comes to security, reliability and ease; >of use ... you can pay me now, or pay me later (i.e. IIS)!t  F I know that, you know that and most of the readers of  c.o.v./info-vaxF know that but most of the IT industry takes advice from suppliers. andF it is over a decade since DEC really pushed VMS. Many of us, includingD me, carry the scars of fighting against DEC sales which explains ourE "attitude". Things did improve under Compaq and Rich Marcello but notyA as much as we (or I believe Marcello) would have liked. I left my E previous employer rather than be driven mad by NT but you can't chasef  a declining job market for ever.  C I started out with PDP-10s and TOPS-10/TOPS-20. Where are they now?eF TOPS-20 was superior to Unix,  Microsoft and even VMS of the time (andC arguably in some ways superior to VMS even today). Where is it now? C wsmr-simtel20.army.mil was one of the last holdouts but even ".mil"r couldn't save it from DEC, -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:22:26 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>./ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors ) Message-ID: <3BCD4DD2.916CB894@gtech.com>n   Bob Ceculski wrote:fC > i am tired of hearing these price winers ... if you want the besteE > you have to pay for it ... vms and alpha are not commodity hardware F > and software like pc junk ... and we are willing to pay for security > and reliability7  @ Have you noted how VMS & Alpha are winning the competion against. wintel junk and discount Unixes like Solaris ?   :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:37:26 +0100.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>b/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsl8 Message-ID: <oujqsts92om1ovtkuhj6rdnmh1m3l39uvc@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:00:10 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge">$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:     >eI >VMS is never going to take over the world.  It had it's chance.  Digital G >blinked (a LONG time ago) and it's over.  But VMS *can* play a role in   D And here is where we disagree. I think VMS *can* still take over theF world. Slowly but surely with HPs backing. The DII-COE stuff is a stepB in the right direction here *and so is the IA64 port* (but not theC premature announcement about Alpha). As long as Compaq/HP policy is C that VMS can't expand out of its niche that will be self-fulfilling0F and c.o.v. will continue to be full of the type of comments (which I'mA sure must be painful to read if you work in VMS engineering) fromC> those of us unlucky enough not to work in a targeted niche whoE constantly wonder how much longer they can carry on working with VMS.cF And there are still a lot of us in that category. In fact it would not@ surprise me if *most* remaining VMS sites don't fit a particular niche.  J >specific areas, and specific markets.  You can buy into that or not.  ButL >aside from a few newsgroups, and pretty much the same handfull of people inH >them - the rest of the world doesn't seem to see this as the end of theL >world.  I have been talking to *real* customers, spending *real* money, whoK >just want information on timing, and plans, but who firmly plan on staying L >with VMS.  And yes, we have people buying Alpha today, and porting to AlphaL >today - knowing that down the road Itanium will be the platform.  The pointK >is that there IS a future.  And it isn't dependent on Compaq being able to  >sustain an Alpha business.o >e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:40:29 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> / Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsm8 Message-ID: <nbkqstgur2mei6ibshmcjotl76f5auiq7t@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:30:21 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >n? >Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messagep, >news:pd1z7.533$RL6.4757@news.cpqcorp.net...I >> Seems to me that both you and Bill are wasted - *you* should be CEO's.7 >HowJ >> is it that your raw pearls of wisdom have gone unnoticed?  At least you; >> should be the head of Strategy for a Fortune 50 company.a >nJ >Actually, at least some of those pearls were noticed but discarded, sinceK >they were presented to Capellas (and then redirected to Marcello) about 17h >months ago.   Bill,?  @ I think it is about time to repost this. Fancy doing so? I don'tB appear to have the final document immediately available although IF know I have it at home. Anyone else with a copy (or who can find it in/ a newsgroup search) feel free to post it again.      -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:09:29 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorst+ Message-ID: <9qjot9$mho$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>n  i In article <L_0z7.531$RL6.4740@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:e >tM >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message <9qhsnu$48u$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...pE >>In article <ZJZy7.519$RL6.4554@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge".& ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >>>eM >>>But I contend that most people, aside from the zealots, do not really care M >>>about the processor ISA.  They care about the price/performance - and thatlJ >>>only a handfull of people are way out on the leading edge of wanting to >payL >>>for absolute performance.  What they do care about is competetive pricingI >>>with competetive performance in the industry.  And that their softwaret >>>investment is protected.  >>>t >>: >>But that is the point. Itanium will not be a cheap chip.J >>Itanium is not IA32 !! Itanium will not take over the desktop - AMD will >>see to that. >>- >>See http://www.theinquirer.net/16100101.htm  >>& >>AMD's Hammer to smash Intel's Plans. >> >c >dE >IMHO.  In a few years, Intel and Microsoft will force IA32 to becomewF >obsolete so that they can churn the customer base and get new licenseJ >revenue, and new system sales.  Both depend on people buying new systems,L >and not holding onto old systems.  IMHO Hammer will die the death of Alpha,7 >Microsoft will give it limp support and let it fizzle.v > G >I would love to have continued to use Windows 3.1, but I was forced torK >Windows 95 - which also obsoleted my hardware.  I am now being battered toiJ >go to WIndows 2K, which will force me to abandon almost all of my currentM >hardware, and some software that I will need to abandon, or re-purchase.  IteJ >is no great stretch to see this same thing happen with Itanium.  It is inB >both Microsofts and Intels interest to force another great churn. >m  = There is no need for 64 bit on the desktop for maybe 5 years. M Intel and Microsoft ganging up to force a move to 64bit itanium would lead toe the biggest DOJ case ever.  I For Microsoft to support Hammer with its 64bit version of its windows OS E should be relatively simple.  I The HAL makes running descendents of the NT operating system on different  platforms relatively easy.  N The presence of AMDs 32bit chips will mean that it is extremely unlikely IntelK could just stop producing IA32 chips. Intel ceding the desktop to AMD would 1 be even more stupid that Compaq's recent actions.h  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:29:58 GMTi3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>./ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors / Message-ID: <3BCD9305.C2891E71@cableinet.co.uk>    Alan Greig wrote:e >    H > And there are still a lot of us in that category. In fact it would notB > surprise me if *most* remaining VMS sites don't fit a particular > niche.  tG certainly looking at the UK job market in detail art present there seem  to M9 be very few new deployments. I am wondering if there is a) govt/employer/agency@ conspiracy to kill whatever contract market remains after IR35.    regardso  d -- n Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of o! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:09:21 -0400m5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> / Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsG1 Message-ID: <wahz7.592$RL6.5300@news.cpqcorp.net>E  L david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message <9qjot9$mho$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... >7> >There is no need for 64 bit on the desktop for maybe 5 years.    I The job for Microsoft and Intel is to drive that need.  Most people don'tuJ "need" 1.5GHz systems, my 266MHz PII does a fine job on almost everything., But it is being forced to be obsolete by MS.  K >Intel and Microsoft ganging up to force a move to 64bit itanium would leadc to >the biggest DOJ case ever.  >I    , Not as long as the Republicans are in power.  I >For Microsoft to support Hammer with its 64bit version of its windows OSd >should be relatively simple.eJ >The HAL makes running descendents of the NT operating system on different >platforms relatively easy.l >s    I Heck, Alpha ran NT.  But that didn't make it succeed.  If Microsoft givesoI it's full support to it, then it will live, otherwise the 64-extension ofTL Hammer will be useless.  If MS throws itself into Itanium, it forces a churn of the 32-bit software.   I >The presence of AMDs 32bit chips will mean that it is extremely unlikelyA Intel L >could just stop producing IA32 chips. Intel ceding the desktop to AMD would2 >be even more stupid that Compaq's recent actions. >d    K Why?  All MS has to do is start producing 64-bit Itanium products, with thesH new features, play some licensing games to make the 32-bit stuff (now inF maintenance mode) more expensive, and you get a 3-5 year transition toA Itanium with the added bonus that you get to sell more SW and HW.t  J MS could easily say "we will put all our software on Itanium" and tell AMDJ that they can pay them if they want support for specific layered products.. Look at how little MS did for (free on) Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:24:39 -0700i' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>r/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors-+ Message-ID: <3BCDA2B7.DF734424@caltech.edu>r   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  C >  And yes, we have people buying Alpha today, and porting to AlphanB > today - knowing that down the road Itanium will be the platform.  O It will be _A_ platform, but it's really bad planning to assume that it will bet _THE_ platform, exceptM for maybe a year or two. The Q is getting out of the CPU business, so the VMSu engineers should at leastcE consider the advantages of finally making the OS effectively platform 
 independent..i    N You know, the reason that Intel can foist the Itanium on us is because it held a near monopolyaF on desktop (NOT server) chips for 15 years.   It seems to have escaped everyone's attention thateO other than the x86 series none of Intel's other CPUs have been a success.  That  is, they couldK leverage the monopoly, but never broke away from it.  Currently the Itaniumy costs roughly the same amount L as an Alpha (and the few systems I've seen start at a lot more than a DS10). Which is a long way:J of getting back to pointing out that the AMD Hammer line has a much better economic strategyeI than does the Itanium.  Assuming for the sake of argument that both chips$ actually work more ore? less as advertised and both companies stay afloat then we have:n   Hammer  Itaniume' Y              Y            fast 64 bit L Y              N            fast 32 bit /  runs old Windows 32 bit code wellI Y              Y            runs new Windows XP (or whatever) 64 bit wellv/ Y              N            viable desktop chipi  N Which means that at the end of 2002 Joe Consumer can upgrade his P3 desktop to a Hammer and keep his software, H but he can't upgrade to an Itanium and do the same thing.  So the Hammer potentially has a  lower unit9M cost than does the Itanium because it will sell in volume.  That doesn't meana- that Intel won't be selling a lot of P4s, butrL that does nothing for the unit price of the Itanium.   So servers built with Hammer's will potentiallyNN cost less than those built with Itaniums.  And they'll run more software - all+ the existing x86 code, apparently - it will K be years before the Itaniums specific versions of most software appears. OfsK course, there is the possibility that Intel can keep HP and Dell completely K AMD free (so much for the "free" market),  but that won't stop ASUS and thegJ others from building Hammer motherboards, and it won't stop any of us fromM going to any local computer store and ordering one.   That's how I buy my PCsu now in any case - it letsnI me pick exactly the components I want.  Something like 30% of the desktope* market comes through similar channels now,J and if in 2 years even half of that is running Hammer, and the rest of the& desktop market is P4s, then the Hammer8 production run will be vastly larger than the Itanium's.  M For that matter, even Apple will likely sells 10X more Power chips than Intel & will Itaniums, and with OS 10 they canI start leveraging that into the small server market and might expand theirp
 market share.i  O Alas the powers that be have long since decreed that VMS shall only run on huge 6 iron, which is really a pity because clusters of cheapM computers (Hammer's, PowerPC, whatever - CHEAP is the important thing)running:J VMS would have been attractive for a lot of current applications, and veryN attractive for future ones, such as distributed databases.  Instead there willM only be huge costly SMP machines - high margins, low market penetration - and 3 most people will never again set eyes on a VMS box.I   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:43:59 +0000 (UTC)N From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsa+ Message-ID: <9qk8vv$rk5$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  i In article <wahz7.592$RL6.5300@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  >sM >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message <9qjot9$mho$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...n >>? >>There is no need for 64 bit on the desktop for maybe 5 years.  >A > J >The job for Microsoft and Intel is to drive that need.  Most people don'tK >"need" 1.5GHz systems, my 266MHz PII does a fine job on almost everything.e- >But it is being forced to be obsolete by MS.n >eL >>Intel and Microsoft ganging up to force a move to 64bit itanium would lead >toa >>the biggest DOJ case ever. >> >  >e- >Not as long as the Republicans are in power.G >gJ >>For Microsoft to support Hammer with its 64bit version of its windows OS >>should be relatively simple.K >>The HAL makes running descendents of the NT operating system on different( >>platforms relatively easy. >> >  > J >Heck, Alpha ran NT.  But that didn't make it succeed.  If Microsoft givesJ >it's full support to it, then it will live, otherwise the 64-extension ofM >Hammer will be useless.  If MS throws itself into Itanium, it forces a churn  >of the 32-bit software. >m  M The difference is that the 32bit software already exists (and will run fastereK on Hammer than on Itanium if someone really does want a 64bit desktop box).mL Microsoft is already getting a bashing for trying to force its new licensingG policies on customers dropping support for all its 32bit apps would be SO suicidal. Putting even more "new features" on the 64 bit apps won't work eitheraJ because most companies have now woken up to the fact that the new featuresO (or bloatware) are not worth having. If for instance Microsoft were to make the L 64 bit version of word incompatible with the version available on the 32 bitM systems then most corporations would stick with the 32bit version since to do K otherwise would cost them a fortune in the midst of a recession as they are - forced to replace all their hardware at once.o        
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  J >>The presence of AMDs 32bit chips will mean that it is extremely unlikely >IntelM >>could just stop producing IA32 chips. Intel ceding the desktop to AMD wouldt3 >>be even more stupid that Compaq's recent actions.s >> >o >pL >Why?  All MS has to do is start producing 64-bit Itanium products, with theI >new features, play some licensing games to make the 32-bit stuff (now inwG >maintenance mode) more expensive, and you get a 3-5 year transition toaB >Itanium with the added bonus that you get to sell more SW and HW. >vK >MS could easily say "we will put all our software on Itanium" and tell AMD K >that they can pay them if they want support for specific layered products.d/ >Look at how little MS did for (free on) Alpha.  >m >  >w >o   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 10:19:39 -0400+ From: randall.burlew@srs.gov (Randy Burlew) 9 Subject: Re: Ingres (Was: Re: jobs? ingres vax/vms cobol)i, Message-ID: <2001Oct17.101939.13130@srs.gov>  E In article <sbcad767.041@AAASMTA.aaas.org>, jeisensc@aaas.org says...  >d0 >Ahh, another product who's sad story ends with: >W9 >"And then Computer Associates bought them <DOT DOT DOT>"t >l= >I have heard of Ingres but never had the pleasure to use it.  >-  6 Computer Associates has not marketed Ingres very well,7 but they have done as much in that regard as either ASKj4 or Relational Technology did, and they have actively developed the product.  2 I think Ingres is the perfect database product for8 VMS on the Alpha. A poorly marketed technically superior7 database system on poorly marketed technically superiora4 hardware with a poorly marketed technically superior operating system. Perfect. ;)a   Randyu. **********************************************. not necessarily representing the views of WSRC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:10:57 +0200-, From: "Schild Niklaus" <schin@hta-bi.bfh.ch> Subject: make files on OpenVMS* Message-ID: <9qk722$qvm$1@rex.ip-plus.net>   Hi there  L I'm looking for some informations about how to write makefiles (make.com andK descript.mms) . I have an example which I don't understand. My search aboutcJ any documentation about makefiles on VMS was not successfull. Does someone' know where I can find infos about this?m  
 thanks Nik   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:52:26 GMTI2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: make files on OpenVMS1 Message-ID: <eHiz7.600$RL6.5274@news.cpqcorp.net>a  Y In article <9qk722$qvm$1@rex.ip-plus.net>, "Schild Niklaus" <schin@hta-bi.bfh.ch> writes:H  L :I'm looking for some informations about how to write makefiles (make.com...  H   make.com would imply DCL.  As such, please see the DCL Dictionary and E   the OpenVMS User's Guide in the OpenVMS documentation set for basicsD   DCL programming information, and (plug alert) the Guide to WritingE   Real Programs in DCL programming book available from Digital Press.   L :descript.mms) . I have an example which I don't understand. My search about? :any documentation about makefiles on VMS was not successfull. i  G   make, mmk, mms (part of the DECset package), gmake, and such are all fH   referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ.  Each of these tools tends to have its G   own idiosyncracies and its own syntax options.  Each tool has its ownr   documentation.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:01:27 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-/ Subject: More official info on Compaq/HP merger08 Message-ID: <bnvqst4nhgo5524ckm19rbjhmg3uku8rih@4ax.com>  E There's a huge amount of information on the proposed merger available7D at http://quicken.elogic.com/sec_filings.asp?defview=FULL&ticker=cpqE of SEC filings by Compaq relating to the merger. Some of the postings.A are available elsewhere but some are internal only. Here's just ar taster:   F "Compaq and HP are delivering solutions that drive Windows 2000 higherA into the enterprise. We are also strong believers in .NET and the?@ opportunity to change the nature of enterprise computing and Web? services. Microsoft is one of our most strategic partnerships."i  F Personally I'm am not happy at all that the new company want to changeD the face of enterprise computing by driving windows 2000 higher intoA that environment but there we have it in black and white. Not thet@ slightest surprise to me to see a statement like that of course.6 Winkler made this comment back in January after all...  = Anyone still think the "new HP" intends to push UNIX and VMS?      -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:52:05 GMT ' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)g3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger$/ Message-ID: <3bcd8b5d.3975767@news.charter.net>$   Alan,n  E I'm with you.  I've had it with the effects of Microsoft's near-totaleB domination of the industry.  One only needs to look at Microsoft'sA track record in dealing with viruses and other security issues to>C realize that reliance on Microsoft products leaves one wide open to>E even more cyber-terrorism.  And I choose my words intentionally here.cE And then there's the lack of reliability in defect-infested Microsofte- products.  And all too numerous design flaws.w  ? More and more, I'm starting to think rogue thoughts like Linux,f@ Netscape, and StarOffice on the desktop, and wondering about theE viability of a business emphasizing non-Microsoft commodity products.iF Many years ago, people said you can't be fired for buying IBM.  Sadly,. you can't be fired for buying Microsoft today.  8 Does Microsoft get a seat on the merged HP-Compaq board?  
 ... Ben Myers   C On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:01:27 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n wrote:   > F >There's a huge amount of information on the proposed merger availableE >at http://quicken.elogic.com/sec_filings.asp?defview=FULL&ticker=cpqnF >of SEC filings by Compaq relating to the merger. Some of the postingsB >are available elsewhere but some are internal only. Here's just a >taster: >hG >"Compaq and HP are delivering solutions that drive Windows 2000 higher B >into the enterprise. We are also strong believers in .NET and theA >opportunity to change the nature of enterprise computing and Webn@ >services. Microsoft is one of our most strategic partnerships." >oG >Personally I'm am not happy at all that the new company want to changeaE >the face of enterprise computing by driving windows 2000 higher into B >that environment but there we have it in black and white. Not theA >slightest surprise to me to see a statement like that of course.n7 >Winkler made this comment back in January after all...g > > >Anyone still think the "new HP" intends to push UNIX and VMS? >  >e >--. >Alan   	 Ben Myerss Spirit of Performance, Inc.v 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451  tel: 978-456-3889  eFax: 810-963-0412 n  PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:09:50 +0100b% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger 8 Message-ID: <4s3rsts4htk1burqhv4r07o92kgtdkspgt@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:01:27 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r wrote:  C There's some really astonishing logic in some of these filings as I @ read through them. The Aberdeen Group which seems to support the merger says the following:  # "CENTER OF FOCUS: WINDOWS AND INTELgC The largest share of Compaq's profits over the past three years has 	 come fromhD its enterprise server business (Himalaya and Alpha-based OpenVMS and Tru64mF UNIX). During that time, HP has focused primarily on its PA-RISC-based HP-UX C business. However, the bread and butter of the new HP may very well 	 reside in E its Wintel business -- that is, if the new HP adopts most of Compaq'so WintelC strategy. And that means building on its superior channel and Inteld serverE product line." - then goes on to justify why the new HP should preferw the Wintel path,  C So the Aberdeen Group confirms what we already know. VMS, Tru64 and-B NSK keep Compaq afloat but the new HP  should follow Compaq's lossC making WIntel strategy. Astonishing. Wonder how much Sun are payings them :-(  C Incidentally the next edition of Inform is already available in thei< SEC filings even though it isn't yet on the Compaq web site.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:19:48 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger,8 Message-ID: <2k4rstcvgd3e5ie0sh5k843605dcgf5v1u@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:01:27 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>g wrote:  > And it gets worse. Here is the Aberdeen groups recommendations8 concerning the Tru64 ports to Itanium and the VMS ports:  E "First, the port of Tru64 UNIX to Itanium should not be completed....nD ...Second, the port of OpenVMS to Itanium should not be completed."   / They do suggest that the NSK port be completed.a  F And this is the report that Carly has praised in press statements!!!!!E I suggest Compaq staff press for a statement on Carly's praise of thelE Aberdeen groups analysis when it contains statements like the above. t   More of this nonsense at http://quicken.elogic.com/sec_grab.asp?ticker=CPQ&faddr=edgar%2Fdata%2F714154%2F0000912057%2D01%2D535049%2Etxt&fkey=0000912057%2D01%2D535049&ftype=425 -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:04:52 -0600p( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger,+ Message-ID: <3BCD9E14.C40CE0C2@ecubics.com>    Ben Myers wrote:  A > More and more, I'm starting to think rogue thoughts like Linux,-B > Netscape, and StarOffice on the desktop, and wondering about theG > viability of a business emphasizing non-Microsoft commodity products.   ; Just in case you missed it the last time it was sent here :u  - http://www.robval.com/linux/desktop/index.asp    Pretty good summary !n   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2001 15:34:44 GMT. From: Gerhard Schneider <gs@ilfb.tuwien.ac.at>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergere, Message-ID: <9qk8ek$256$1@news.tuwien.ac.at>  9 In comp.unix.tru64 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:e > @ > And it gets worse. Here is the Aberdeen groups recommendations: > concerning the Tru64 ports to Itanium and the VMS ports: >    I love the paragraph:p  K First, the port of Tru64 UNIX to Itanium should not be completed. HP/Compaq D should quickly develop a plan to migrate Tru64 UNIX users to HP-UX.    No comment..  6                                                     GS   -- aL Gerhard Schneider                               e-Mail: gs@ilfb.tuwien.ac.atI Institute of Light Weight Structures (E317)     Tel.:   +43 1 58801 31716pI Vienna University of Technology / Austria       Fax:    +43 1 58801 31799eM A-1040 Wien, Gusshausstrasse 27-29              http://ilfb.tuwien.ac.at/~gs/s   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2001 16:08:16 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)a3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergern' Message-ID: <9qkadg$dro$1@joe.rice.edu>   & Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote:E : On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:01:27 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h : wrote: :t@ : And it gets worse. Here is the Aberdeen groups recommendations: : concerning the Tru64 ports to Itanium and the VMS ports: :lG : "First, the port of Tru64 UNIX to Itanium should not be completed....6F : ...Second, the port of OpenVMS to Itanium should not be completed."  :c1 : They do suggest that the NSK port be completed.o :XH : And this is the report that Carly has praised in press statements!!!!!G : I suggest Compaq staff press for a statement on Carly's praise of thePG : Aberdeen groups analysis when it contains statements like the above. n :aB Note the reference to "migration path" in the following article...  4    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7460040.htmlD    HP's Fiorina predicts smooth merger ride -  Tech News -  CNET.com  D    "Our competitors are saying the only thing they can say: 'They'reI    going to blow the integration; they'll be distracted," Fiorina told an     industry conference.n  G    "I would not anticipate a huge distraction," she said. "You ought tosH    expect that very soon after the merger closes--a month--everyone willI    know who their account team is and what their migration path will be."M?                                                  ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^   I and recall this article, where H-P's Jim McDonnell, said that the merged u> HP would converge to Windows, Linux, and some dialect of unix:  4    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.html=    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech News -  CNET.come  $    HP to have merger map in 100 days    By Michael Kanellos    Staff Writer, CNET News.com"    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT  H    Like a newly inaugurated president, the new Hewlett-Packard is giving5    itself 100 days to flesh out its strategic vision.k  H    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide marketing for the businessG    customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that the transition team chargednB    with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq Computer will try to?    formalize a strategy for how the new company will operate in     relatively short order.    .    .    .G    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. BecauselE    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiplerE    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,i8    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others.  G    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according toxI    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road map-B    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio    without alienating them..."  G Given hints about VMS possibly running on IBM's PowerPC, IBM's apparentxM decision not to release AIX for Intel IA64, it wouldn't be much of a suprise  5 for HP to kill off or sell OpenVMS, Tru64, and HP-UX.p  H IBM could be the buyer for VMS and/or Tru64 to have a platform for IA64.I You think IBM might have had a represntative at Carly, Curly, and Craig'sj "love in" 18 months ago ?     H Craig Barrett has said merger of HP & Compaq is a good move, which isn't# surprising, since Intel has gotten:g     o PA-RISC designers from HP    o ALPHA designers from Compaq    o Compiler gurus from Compaq.o    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:20:43 GMT ' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)s3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergere/ Message-ID: <3bcdbdc0.1569485@news.charter.net>f  D Hmm.  Did Carly hire the Aberdeen Group, an "independent" consulting- group, to tell her what she wanted to hear???   
 ... Ben Myers   C On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:19:48 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i wrote:  D >On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:01:27 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> >wrote:r > ? >And it gets worse. Here is the Aberdeen groups recommendationst9 >concerning the Tru64 ports to Itanium and the VMS ports:H >eF >"First, the port of Tru64 UNIX to Itanium should not be completed....E >...Second, the port of OpenVMS to Itanium should not be completed." i > 0 >They do suggest that the NSK port be completed. >bG >And this is the report that Carly has praised in press statements!!!!!bF >I suggest Compaq staff press for a statement on Carly's praise of theF >Aberdeen groups analysis when it contains statements like the above.  >  >More of this nonsense atm >http://quicken.elogic.com/sec_grab.asp?ticker=CPQ&faddr=edgar%2Fdata%2F714154%2F0000912057%2D01%2D535049%2Etxt&fkey=0000912057%2D01%2D535049&ftype=425  >--  >Alan   	 Ben Myersl Spirit of Performance, Inc.m 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451c tel: 978-456-3889h eFax: 810-963-0412 o  PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:53:52 -0400i; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>u Subject: Re: MOZILLA 0.9.5$ Message-ID: <3bcdc5e2$1@news.si.com>   >The new version is available:L >http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla0.9.5/mozilla-openvms-al pha-m095.sfx_axpexec   But it doesn't run on a VAX. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.commA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comm= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:10:35 +0200), From: Theo Jakobus <Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de>/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections ' Message-ID: <3BCD2EEB.10405@iaf.fhg.de>w   Craig A. Berry wrote:W  E > The newest version of Mozilla still has problems if you install it @@ > under the SYSTEM account and then try to run it from another, I > non-privileged account.  It gives the "Starting..." message, chugs for  H > a bit, and then just quits with no error messages.  By using security 8 > auditing, I determined that the following files under F > SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA] are installed with protections other than what  > they need: > * >                            has     needs* > component.reg              W:RE    W:RWE( > [.components]xpti.dat      W:      W:R* > [.components]xptitemp.dat  W:RE    W:RWE > D > Once I change the protections, Mozilla runs fine.  I suspect most J > people don't encounter this because they run from the same account they G > install from and thus own the files, but if this doesn't get fixed I *J > bet it will generate a lot of support calls when Mozilla 1.0 is finally F > released.  In any case, it would be nice to get a NOPRIV error when < > Mozilla can't even start due to a file protection problem. > J > Quite possibly write access is not really needed for one or more of the I > files that currently requires it, so it may be that the right thing to tD > do here would involve a code change as well as (or instead of) an  > installer change.u >   0 If you didn't already use BUGZILLA for feedback.     Regards, --    ; ***********************************************************-; *                                                         *l; *  Theo Jakobus                                           *O; *  Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Angewandte Festkoerperphysik  * ; *  Tullastr. 72                                           *s; *  D-79108 Freiburg                                       *t; *  Germany                                                *w; *  Phone:   +49-(0)761-5159-325                           * ; *  FAX :    +49-(0)761-5159-200                           *o; *  e-mail:  Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de                       * ; *  http://www.iaf.fhg.de                                  *i; *                                                         *p; ***********************************************************i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:40:43 GMTt' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>a/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protectionso- Message-ID: <3BCD602A.6B3ABD90@theblakes.com>c  , As Theo says, this needs moving to Bugzilla.  I The protections on all the files should be correct, by default. I've just.% done clean M0.9.5 install and I have:   : $ dir /sec sys$common:[mozilla]*.reg,[mozilla...]xpti*.dat   Directory SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA]  G COMPONENT.REG;1      [A1,SYSTEM]                      (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)    Total of 1 file.  ) Directory SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA.COMPONENTS]-  G XPTI.DAT;1           [A1,SYSTEM]                      (RWED,RWED,RE,RE) G XPTITEMP.DAT;1       [A1,SYSTEM]                      (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)P   Total of 2 files.   & Grand total of 2 directories, 3 files. $   D So the question is, why was the protection different on your system?  5 If you take this to Bugzilla we'll pursue it further.L   Colin.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 06:11:03 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections 3 Message-ID: <t7I1VDx1tRC1@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  W In article <3BCD602A.6B3ABD90@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:a  K > The protections on all the files should be correct, by default. I've justu' > done clean M0.9.5 install and I have:n   <snip>  F > So the question is, why was the protection different on your system?  @ Are the protections explicitly specified in the PCSI .PDF file ?  ? If not, could it be defaulting to the RMS default on the systemi
 in question ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:09:35 GMTr' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>"/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protectionsl- Message-ID: <3BCD74FB.C08D30E6@theblakes.com>e   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  B > Are the protections explicitly specified in the PCSI .PDF file ?   No.   A > If not, could it be defaulting to the RMS default on the system$ > in question ?   Y No. Well, it shouldn't be. Mozilla does NOT specify any protection on its "file" commandsyW in its PCSI description file. The default protection is meant to be "protection public"s& which is (S:RWED, O:RWED, G:RE, W:RE).   Colin.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 08:01:56 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protectionss3 Message-ID: <9mk7mDJp2em5@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  W In article <3BCD74FB.C08D30E6@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > C >> Are the protections explicitly specified in the PCSI .PDF file ?f >  > No.  > B >> If not, could it be defaulting to the RMS default on the system >> in question ? > [ > No. Well, it shouldn't be. Mozilla does NOT specify any protection on its "file" commandsrY > in its PCSI description file. The default protection is meant to be "protection public"n( > which is (S:RWED, O:RWED, G:RE, W:RE).  " Perhaps then it is defect in PCSI.  E But it would be interesting if the original submitter would repackage=; the kit, adding the protections, and see if it still fails.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:37:22 GMT'3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>g/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protections / Message-ID: <3BCDA524.D8DFF448@cableinet.co.uk>N   Colin Blake wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > D > > Are the protections explicitly specified in the PCSI .PDF file ? >  > No.s > C > > If not, could it be defaulting to the RMS default on the system  > > in question ?c > [ > No. Well, it shouldn't be. Mozilla does NOT specify any protection on its "file" commandsvY > in its PCSI description file. The default protection is meant to be "protection public" ( > which is (S:RWED, O:RWED, G:RE, W:RE). >  > Colin.  H default file protections are ultimately controlled by a SYSGEN parameter
 RMS_FILEPROT..A This might psosibly explain why you are seing differences betweeno systems.   regards  -- : Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  2  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:14:33 GMTi' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>3/ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.5 and file protectionsd- Message-ID: <3BCDBC78.33636224@theblakes.com>i  ] The manual (http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/5952/5952pro_008.html#file) says "SetseZ the file protection to (S:RWED, O:RWED, G:RE, W:RE), giving general users read and execute access. This is the default".   = It doesn't say anything about using the system's RMS default.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:53:24 -0700b( From: "mrauscher" <pobox-1@comports.com>2 Subject: multinet IP address and host.local change( Message-ID: <9qk9hi$lni$1@news.orst.edu>  C We've recently changed the IP (multinet) address of our VMS cluster K machines. Because the cluster is behind a firewall and the addresses of thetJ cluster members on the external DNS server are not the same as the addressE on the cluster interfaces, we want each cluster member to resolve the,I qualified names of the other members from its own host.local table ratherSL than using the DNS. After changing the interface IP addresses and making the; appropriate changes to the host.local, we do the following:m   $multinet host_table compile $@multinet:install_databases $@multinet:start_serverg $@multinet:start_smtpy  I Everything looks fine, but when we ping or otherwise try to access one ofaL the other members via its name in the host.local, the machine appears to notC be using its host.local (which is specified as the first source for4F resolution) but going directly to the DNS, and therefore returning the* external, and therefore the wrong address.  G Any tips on what we're doing wrong, or how we can force the machines tocE reference their own host.local tables before going to the DNS server?t   TIA.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:36:53 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>> Subject: OpenVMS Jobs (Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors)@ Message-ID: <20011017103653.23633.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>   Yes !=20  6 I know about 5 sysadmins in Brazil (incl. me) who work/ with OpenVMS. The great customers are migratingb5 to Unix and NT...Most of my old companies migrated ori6 have just the essencial systems running under OpenVMS.  1 My natural way is to migrate. Itf the things dont0 change.9  / Or... if the Brazilian Navy decides to put some-1 Alphas inside our new-used carrier (any frenchman  here?).t  4 We will convert the French Foch in the Brazilian Sao5 Paulo, so the the Navy will buy milions in electronice
 equipment.  4 If I had the oportunity to put some Alphas there, by my own :-))) $$$$$$$     Regards    FC=20e    2 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote:n4 > > nt will never be on the level of vms ... are you > forgetting why peoplet > > are still on vms?=20 >=204 > The number of people still on VMS is going down as > competing systems are 5 > getting closers and closer, they meet more and more5 > of customer's needs. >=20 >=202 > > another plus!  vms will be around thru 2015 or > longer and the militarye  > > will be the primary users=20 >=206 > Yep, just like the military probably was the primary > user of DG's dead AOS-VS2 > until just recently when they switched to VMS on > their JSTARs planes. >=20. > >along with us smart IT managers like myself6 > > that aren't idiots ... nt catch vms, what have you > been smoking?l >=201 > "smart" is the wrong word. "LUCKY" is the righte > word. Lots of smart IT1 > managers don't have the luxury of being able to  > choose the best possible3 > solution , no matter what its price is. Many must  > follow corporate edicts that6 > require only industry standard solutions, and others > have budgets that prevente3 > them from buying VMS. And many more can't buy VMS0 > because the application they > need doesn't run on VMS.     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DtL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3De F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil/ fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DO  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 07:07:19 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: Re: OpenVMS Jobs (Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors)= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110170607.4a089af5@posting.google.com>   v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20011017103653.23633.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>... > Yes !  > 8 > I know about 5 sysadmins in Brazil (incl. me) who work1 > with OpenVMS. The great customers are migrating 7 > to Unix and NT...Most of my old companies migrated orr8 > have just the essencial systems running under OpenVMS. > 3 > My natural way is to migrate. Itf the things dontc	 > change.N > 1 > Or... if the Brazilian Navy decides to put some 3 > Alphas inside our new-used carrier (any frenchmani	 > here?).  > 6 > We will convert the French Foch in the Brazilian Sao7 > Paulo, so the the Navy will buy milions in electronicd > equipment. > 6 > If I had the oportunity to put some Alphas there, by > my own :-))) $$$$$$$ >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   >  > 4 > --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > > Bob Ceculski wrote:^6 > > > nt will never be on the level of vms ... are you >  forgetting why people > > > are still on vms?  > > 6 > > The number of people still on VMS is going down as > > competing systems are07 > > getting closers and closer, they meet more and moree > > of customer's needs. > >  > > 4 > > > another plus!  vms will be around thru 2015 or >  longer and the military  > > > will be the primary users  > > 8 > > Yep, just like the military probably was the primary > > user of DG's dead AOS-VS4 > > until just recently when they switched to VMS on > > their JSTARs planes. > > 0 > > >along with us smart IT managers like myself8 > > > that aren't idiots ... nt catch vms, what have you > > been smoking?c > > 3 > > "smart" is the wrong word. "LUCKY" is the rightr > > word. Lots of smart IT3 > > managers don't have the luxury of being able to  > > choose the best possible5 > > solution , no matter what its price is. Many must   > > follow corporate edicts that8 > > require only industry standard solutions, and others > > have budgets that preventn5 > > them from buying VMS. And many more can't buy VMSf  > > because the application they > > need doesn't run on VMS. >  >  > =====, > =========================  > =h > F?io dos Santos Cardosou > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilr > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > =========================n > =  > 4 >                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?. > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com  9 if you need an app that can't be bought ... you write it!-@ we use synergy dibol as our accounting systems have migrated all? the way back from the mcba pdp11 rsts/e dibol days ... all appsaB can be written and should be to take advantage of vms capabilities@ if there is no other vendor solution ... like i said before, vmsD is not a commodity os like windows ... if you want the best you haveC to pay for it ... actually the cost overall of running an alpha vms @ system is in the long run way less than running multiple windowsD boxes ... and that doesn't factor in security ... so you can pay nowB or pay later (IIS, blue screens, 80% of your time spent installing, patches, code red, nimda, need i say more?)!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:27:40 +0100d4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: RAID RA3000 & H22agent B Message-ID: <1003307113.11066.0.nnrp-12.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  J I see in the manuals that I can do all sorts of clever stuff with pagers & my PC on this.0 Can I just get emailed when there's a problem ??   Thanks,a Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:37:11 -0700e* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>; Subject: Re: Slightly OT - how failed computers kill ships.o? Message-ID: <GChz7.184304$Rb.6022227@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>b  @ "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message) news:3BCCFB91.1E4856EB@cableinet.co.uk...t > C > you wouldn't want to run out of swapfile space in such situationsy	 > either.  >tG I would think that type of application (keeping bombs from hitting your/G ship) would justify enough memory to never require swapping.  Real time0L systems with mandatory fast response times generally preclude paging delays.    Jack Peacockr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:55:05 GMTe3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>I; Subject: Re: Slightly OT - how failed computers kill ships. / Message-ID: <3BCDA94C.50B28983@cableinet.co.uk>l   Jack Peacock wrote:t > B > "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message+ > news:3BCCFB91.1E4856EB@cableinet.co.uk...l > >hE > > you wouldn't want to run out of swapfile space in such situations- > > either.s > >pI > I would think that type of application (keeping bombs from hitting yournI > ship) would justify enough memory to never require swapping.  Real time N > systems with mandatory fast response times generally preclude paging delays. >    Jack Peacocki  E of course, thats how I'd do it too. My point is that even VMS must beo well configured and maintained.   regards- -- - Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:55:48 +0800o' From: "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com>t Subject: Re: Stop a processl0 Message-ID: <9qk2bk$3hs4@imsp212.netvigator.com>  F Actually it's an SLS job, when I want to stop the job in the middle, IK delete the entry from the queue. But the entry will faill into the aborting.J state and the process sometimes falls into the RWAST state and sometime asJ LEF, but the process will change to the suspend mode and the tape drive itL is allocating cannot be deallocated. If I try to dismount/abort/ov=check forB the tape drive, the drive will change to "mount dismounted" state.  L Can this kind of process be stopped without rebooting the system and how can I deallocate the tape drive.  # I am using VMS 7.2-1 on Alpha 8400.   ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageu+ news:zQ_y7.521$RL6.4355@news.cpqcorp.net...d< > In article <9qhp37$jq72@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com> writes:IL > :If I cannot stop the process by STOP PROCE/ID=XXX, is there any other way IaK > :can stop the process, just like UNIX to use kill -9 to force the processt to > :die?d >rA >   As STOP/ID=pid does what you want, I will guess that you have  encounterediK >   a process stuck in a mutex (mutual exclusion) or miscellaneous resourceoH >   wait (mwait) state.  Is this the case here?  Does the target process showL >   up as MWAIT or RWAST or other scheduling state on a SHOW SYSTEM command? >* > -- > D >   Please do not specify a command from another operating system in	 isolation L >   as your desired goal, please let us know what you want to do and why youG >   want to do it -- in this case, I've used kill -9, so I know what it  does. L >   But in the general case, folks might not be familiar with any particularK >   command -- the more details and the more background you provide on your-E >   goal(s), the more likely you will get a solution to your problem.  > F >   When posting a question, please remember to include details -- the shorter L >   your question, the less likely that an the answer will address the topicJ >   that you intended.  Please remember to include the OpenVMS version andI >   platform, the exact command used, error message(s) (if any) seen, ande any K >   other relevent information -- such as the details of the target process: inK >   this particular case.  For additional details on the background detailsm/ >   often required, please see the OpenVMS FAQ.. > L >   Put another way, if you ask a terse question, you should expect to get aK >   terse answer.  You might not get an answer to the question you intended[ >   to ask, too. >  >i( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 08:44:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Stop a processt= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110170744.6b3afea2@posting.google.com>-  _ "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com> wrote in message news:<9qhp37$jq72@imsp212.netvigator.com>...KM > If I cannot stop the process by STOP PROCE/ID=XXX, is there any other way IVM > can stop the process, just like UNIX to use kill -9 to force the process too > die?   $ stop/id=pid#   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:09:59 +0100t8 From: "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk>) Subject: TCPIP HTTP EXITING BEFORE SOCKET R Message-ID: <FFDBA0B630B5D211954E0008C70D240D05B6CAA6@elsoxfs12304.elsevier.co.uk>   Hi, we are running D7 DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0Aa6 on a AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB running OpenVMS V7.2-1  - The Http service is enabled  TCPIP> sho serv http/fu 
 Service: HTTPl State: Enabled' Port: 80 Protocol: TCP Address: 0.0.0.0r, Inactivity: 5 User_name: HTTPD Process: HTTP Limit: 1 Active: 0 Peak: 1 File: TCPIP$SERVICEh
 Flags: Listenx Socket Opts: Rcheck Scheck Receive: 0 Send: 0
 Log Opts:  Log file:      not defined Security Reject msg: not defined  Accept host: 0.0.0.0 Accept netw: 0.0.0.0 TCPIP> sho dev/service=http/fu/ Device_socket: bg2696 Type: STREAM LOCAL REMOTEc
 Port: 80 0 Host: 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0n Service: HTTP   o RECEIVE SEND Queued I/O 0 0 Q0LEN 0 Socket buffer bytes 0 0i& QLEN 0 Socket buffer quota 32768 32768 QLIMIT 5 Total buffer alloc 0 0 ( TIMEO 0 Total buffer limit 262144 262144 ERROR 0 Buffer or I/O waits 0 0a! OOBMARK 0 Buffer or I/O drops 0 09 I/O completed 78 0 Bytes transferred 0 0n  t Options: ACCEPT REUSEADR State: PRIV  RCV Buff: None SND Buff: None  r6 We cannot access the website, we could before a reboot; The nameserver resolves fine we are getting console message    $ Message from user INTERnet on COUGAR3 INTERnet ACP detected HTTP exiting before 'socket'    o  Any suggestions are very welcome    Regardsf Paul Paul Hansford    VMS System Manager         Elsevier Science Ltd h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:57:53 +0100D% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i$ Subject: Re: VMS & Unix connectivity8 Message-ID: <54lqstk8r4rbel582jmm2569psm7kgc51r@4ax.com>  - On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:24:33 +0100, "Malcolm"i* <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:    G >One thing I am thinking of is setting up interconnectivity between thecM >NetApp and VMS. I am toying with the idea of setting up NFS access to the NT J >home directories from the VMS system. Looks like this would be complex (IM >want to set up write access, so I'd need to set up a lot of NFS proxies...). I >Once I have it done, I could set it up with NT: or NT_HOME: as a logicallH >name, and users could dump database reports directly into their NT homeK >drives from the database application... The intention though is to "merge"e  B Further to Malcolm's comments we also evaluated Pathworks AdvancedE Server to provide this functionality and, indeed, do make limited use F for this purpose. Unfortunately niggling little problems (such as direC upload speed due to deferred ack issues and other mysterious littleeE problems such as CCmail following over with post-offices on Pathworks A servers) forced us to rule it out. A considerable number of other C sites have told me that they chucked Pathworks due to its upload to-F server speed on fast networks but Compaq gave the problem low-priorityA for far too long. Told it is scheduled to be fixed in an upcomingg= release. Yes I am aware of the TCPIP SET PROT TCP/NODELAY_ACKw< workaround but that is not appropriate in all circumstances.  F I'll also re-iterate what Malcolm said that it is surprising the levelB of support NFS client on VMS gives for emulating a VMS file system these days.a  I >the Unix and NT home directories on the NetApp box, so I'll have to wait- >till that's sorted out first. >2L >Does anyone have any programs to read /etc/passwd, compare the real name inI >a SYSUAF.LIS file with that in the Unix password file, and create an NFS J >proxy if the two match using the UID and GID from the Unix password file?H >Just wondering... (that approach would take care of about 70-75% of the >work) >t
 >-Malcolm. > K >[*] Although RMS is probably irrelevant here, since DBMS bypasses RMS filecL >organisation (Record format: Undefined) - as long as you could consistently% >read what you wrote it would work...i >> --D >> >> Jack Patteeuw >t   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:14:52 +0200l& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>+ Subject: Re: VMS future, a sense of deja vua$ Message-ID: <3BCDBC8C.52BF@c-lab.de>   Greg Cagle wrote:, >    > G > First, I completely agree that HP threw away a lot of good technologyeE > with the Apollo merger. But keep in mind that Domain, beautiful and K > elegant as it was, was competing in the Unix space and was a non-standardtE > solution. The NFS implementation, to choose just one example, was anD > joke: so was the Unix API support and the X server. Often the bestD > solution will not survive because an alternative has more mind and> > market share (see Apple vs. Windows for another data point). >   H Exactly that was the problem: Apollo's whole transparent network system,F with processes spawned magically on other nodes while the UI was stillE at yours, distributed filesystem with working locking concept and all F that, not to mention the (professional!) user friendly GUI was at thatE time flatly competing with the rest of the UNIX-dominated workstationf> market. There was no valuable differentiating feature like theH clustering and reliabilty, etc, that gave/gives VMS still a niche in theF market. Yes, NFS was dodgy and only useable when HP had bought Apollo.H The UNIX API 'emulation' on the other hand was pretty good with SR 10.3.F And well the X server suffered the same problem as the many PC-based X> servers: different graphics model, so performance of X sucked.1 Still, many good ideas went down the trash can...     D > So they went about making sure the CAD and CAE apps were ported toF > HP-UX, and stopped investing in Domain. The reality of the situationE > is that Apollo was damn near dead anyway and had lost the standards A > war. And, as long as Domain was locked into the 68K platform it  > was all over anyway. >   D Not to mention the price problem. '90/91, when Sun came out with theG SS1, SS1+ and soon the SS2, they were cheaper than an equivalent DN4500rG or even DN5500, but still almost twice as fast! Apollo's RISC processor ? in the DN10000 was a very late design, and the DN10000 was verytE expensive. It's multi-chip design was still at a stage of Sun's early ! RISC designs, the 4/280 and such.k  B > Besides, at the time we were all told OSF/1 was going to replace= > both HP-UX *and* Domain. Good thing we didn't believe THAT.  >   B Oh yes, I can remember a HP salesdroid spectacle where they nearly? promised to finally to away with their almost as propieratry asaG Domain/OS HPsUX 9.X extensions and embrace a more 'standard' set of APIy and tool behaviour. Blahblah...       A > But to balance things out we are now all stuck with the Windowsr= > Registry which *also* came from Domain, or so rumor has it.t >   H rgyd? Perhaps, but this was only for access control. System and softwareG configuration wasn't contained in the Domain registry. Perhaps M$ hiredMB also some AIX guys, who planted that vile idea into NT, who knows.      G > And that's the key - it's not necessarily about feature sets but also H > about market segments and software vendor coverage. I don't think it's' > necessarily as simple as it might be.n >   H On the other hand, Apollo also had their critical customers: there was aH rumor that part of aviation control was runnig on Domain/OS/Aegis... And it is still supported by HP.     -- r* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:21:28 +0100 + From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> 3 Subject: Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authenticationp& Message-ID: <3bcd2ee0$1@pull.gecm.com>  6 "Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message, news:3bccc2d4.1395162147@news.wcc.govt.nz...3 > On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:30:52 +0100, "Tim Jackson"s  > <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote: >rH > >System is DS10 & DS20E VMScluster running VMS 7.3 and AS 7.3 as a BDC/ > >for a domain where the PDC is an NT4 server.  > >i0 > >"NT" usernames are hostmaped to VMS accounts. > >oE > >External authentication is set for the users but those users whose  "NT"G > >username is > 15 characters cannot logon to their VMS accounts via arE > >terminal emulator, while all others work fine.  I thought the max.v "NT"# > >username size was 20 characters.  > >r
 > >Any ideas?  >  > Not really but...  >pC > Why do you use Host Mapping? are you're NT Usernames different tot > their VMS Counterparts?y >eA > Here we have External Authentication, but because the Usernamese5 > between VMS & NT are the same we have no Host Maps.  > F > Does anything show up under Opcom, I would have thought there'd be aF > Login Failure recorded somewhere, this might indicate what was going > wrong. >n > Rob. > >  > >TIAG > >------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------aG > >Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.comy > >Air Systems Group > >Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd. > >. > >K > >  >   H That's right, the NT user names are "very" different from the VMS names.  H When we switched on debugging to OPCOM it reported unknown username, butA didn't say whether it was the NT or VMS name that was causing ther problem!  A I've tried using the different logon syntaxes(?) i.e. NTusername, D domainname\NTusername and NTusername@domainname, all with no further success.  B It seems very suspicious to me that upto 15 works and greater thanE doesn't, as a count of 15 fits into an unsigned byte and greater thann needs at least a word.  D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Groupe Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.n   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 06:07:32 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l3 Subject: Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication 3 Message-ID: <ib1wO2Mp8jg7@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  T In article <3bcd2ee0$1@pull.gecm.com>, "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> writes:  D > It seems very suspicious to me that upto 15 works and greater thanG > doesn't, as a count of 15 fits into an unsigned byte and greater thany > needs at least a word.   Buy one of the newer machines,3 where a count of 127 fits into an unsigned byte :-)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:49:14 -0400t+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> 3 Subject: Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication?1 Message-ID: <H_fz7.578$RL6.5201@news.cpqcorp.net>1  6 "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message  news:3bcd2ee0$1@pull.gecm.com...8 > "Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message. > news:3bccc2d4.1395162147@news.wcc.govt.nz...5 > > On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:30:52 +0100, "Tim Jackson"a" > > <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote: > >aJ > > >System is DS10 & DS20E VMScluster running VMS 7.3 and AS 7.3 as a BDC1 > > >for a domain where the PDC is an NT4 server.  > > >J2 > > >"NT" usernames are hostmaped to VMS accounts. > > >TG > > >External authentication is set for the users but those users whose7 > "NT"I > > >username is > 15 characters cannot logon to their VMS accounts via atG > > >terminal emulator, while all others work fine.  I thought the max.n > "NT"% > > >username size was 20 characters.t > > >y > > >Any ideas?  > >l > > Not really but...p > >iE > > Why do you use Host Mapping? are you're NT Usernames different to  > > their VMS Counterparts?e > >mC > > Here we have External Authentication, but because the Usernamesi7 > > between VMS & NT are the same we have no Host Maps.- > > H > > Does anything show up under Opcom, I would have thought there'd be aH > > Login Failure recorded somewhere, this might indicate what was going
 > > wrong. > >D > > Rob. > > >9 > > >TIAI > > >------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------bI > > >Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.coml > > >Air Systems Group  > > >Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd. > > >h > > >i > > >  > >h >sJ > That's right, the NT user names are "very" different from the VMS names. >uJ > When we switched on debugging to OPCOM it reported unknown username, butC > didn't say whether it was the NT or VMS name that was causing thea
 > problem! > C > I've tried using the different logon syntaxes(?) i.e. NTusername,hF > domainname\NTusername and NTusername@domainname, all with no further
 > success. >@D > It seems very suspicious to me that upto 15 works and greater thanG > doesn't, as a count of 15 fits into an unsigned byte and greater than- > needs at least a word. >,F > ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------F > Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com > Air Systems Group' > Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.o >h >o   Tim,  H NT usernames can indeed be up to 20 characters in length and should work with external authentication.c  G Out of curiousity, what do you see in the PDC's security event log? TheeH event information will include the username that was used during a logonF failure. Does it show the complete username or one that was truncated?  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS Engineeringn Compaq Computer Corporationh
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:02:10 -0400e5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNOSP@Mcompaq.com> 3 Subject: Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authenticationi1 Message-ID: <l2iz7.597$RL6.5309@news.cpqcorp.net>t  6 "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message news:3bcc8857@pull.gecm.com...G > System is DS10 & DS20E VMScluster running VMS 7.3 and AS 7.3 as a BDCe. > for a domain where the PDC is an NT4 server. >i/ > "NT" usernames are hostmaped to VMS accounts.  >dI > External authentication is set for the users but those users whose "NT" F > username is > 15 characters cannot logon to their VMS accounts via aI > terminal emulator, while all others work fine.  I thought the max. "NT" " > username size was 20 characters. >II That would be what we call a bug.  Its fixed in V7.3-ECO1 which I hope to G release for distribution from the CSCs in the next day or so.  It'll bes	 available H via traditional channels a couple weeks later.  Give the CSC a call, and they& should be able to get you the ECO kit.   Regards,  
 Brad McCusker  OpenVMS Engineeringe Littleton MA and Nashua NH, USA    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:21:27 +0400b4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>( Subject: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <3BCD2367.5971327A@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi All!nS 	I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will be  greatly appreciated.   	TIA.t   -- t Cheers,lF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222eE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:13:15 +0100a7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com>a, Subject: RE: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMSH Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE01529093@reaes2.sema.co.uk>   Hi.-  I I read your message on the mailing list. This is exactly what we do, so IiF have forwarded your email on to the customer service manager who looks" after our east European customers.  D Let me know how you get on. It would be interesting to find out what somebodyK from outside the company thinks of us, whether you decide to use us or not.a  K I will leave you to judge what you think of the product - all I will say isc that the6 telecoms support engineers are the best in the world!!  
 Good luck.  
 Regards, Johnh John Powersv+ SchlumbergerSema  Telecoms Support Engineer2     -----Original Message-----9 From: Ruslan R. Laishev [mailto:Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU]  Sent: 17 October 2001 07:21t To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt( Subject: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS     Hi All!pB 	I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will be greatly appreciated.   	TIA..   -- d Cheers,.F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222eE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222aF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +    K ___________________________________________________________________________tB This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of   SchlumbergerSema. M If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this0I email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or L- copying of this email is strictly prohibited.e  z If you have received this email in error please notify the SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.K ___________________________________________________________________________    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:41:54 +0400e4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <3BCD4452.51CFA92C@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi John, 	is there any pointer to docs ?e     "POWERS, John" wrote:s >  > Hi.e > K > I read your message on the mailing list. This is exactly what we do, so IcH > have forwarded your email on to the customer service manager who looks$ > after our east European customers. > F > Let me know how you get on. It would be interesting to find out what
 > somebodyM > from outside the company thinks of us, whether you decide to use us or not.n > M > I will leave you to judge what you think of the product - all I will say ist
 > that the8 > telecoms support engineers are the best in the world!! >  > Good luck. >  > Regards, John 
 > John Powersn- > SchlumbergerSema  Telecoms Support EngineerI >  > -----Original Message-----; > From: Ruslan R. Laishev [mailto:Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU]s > Sent: 17 October 2001 07:21o > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt* > Subject: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS > 	 > Hi All! K >         I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, anyn > pointers will be > greatly appreciated. >  >         TIA. >  > --	 > Cheers,tH > +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+G >  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222vG >  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222eH > +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm + > M > ___________________________________________________________________________nC > This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the I > individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented arePF > solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of > SchlumbergerSema.-O > If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thiseJ > email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or/ > copying of this email is strictly prohibited.' > | > If you have received this email in error please notify the SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.M > ___________________________________________________________________________    -- v Cheers,-F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222tE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:57:39 +0400.4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <3BCD6423.F181D511@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi Alan,U 	the SMS-ing you described is sort of paging, and it's not allow to writting SMS from  cell-phone, is not ?   Alan Greig wrote:, > 9 > On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:21:27 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev"b# > <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:e > 
 > >Hi All!\ > >       I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will be > >greatly appreciated.t > G > I've used the Ckermit TAP scripts to send SMS messages before. If the C > cellphone company you use provides a TAP ( Telocator AlphanumericaE > Protocol) dial-up interface then the kermit APAGE script will work.uE > Alternatively some providers have email to SMS or web/SMS gateways.e > 6 > Here's the header info from the Kermit sample script >  > ;i > ; File APAGE.KSC > ; Version 4.0( > ;p? > if < \v(version) 700000 end 1 C-Kermit 7.0 or later required.t > B > ; TAP/IXO alphanumeric paging script for Kermit 95 and C-Kermit.F > ; Authors: F. da Cruz and C. Gianone, Columbia University, September > 1996.e > ;m4 > ; For use with C-Kermit 7.0 / K95 1.1.17 or later.B > ; For a detailed explanation, consult "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed.,
 > pp.454-456.h > ;r >  > >       TIA. >  > -- > Alan   -- t Cheers,aF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222dE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222oF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:25:35 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <sqmqstsooilia7ugdgkjepn1hf8s9up4l7@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:21:27 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev"a! <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:    >Hi All!T >	I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will be >greatly appreciated.8  E I've used the Ckermit TAP scripts to send SMS messages before. If theoA cellphone company you use provides a TAP ( Telocator Alphanumeric2C Protocol) dial-up interface then the kermit APAGE script will work.tC Alternatively some providers have email to SMS or web/SMS gateways.s  4 Here's the header info from the Kermit sample script   ;' ; File APAGE.KSC
 ; Version 4.0a ;a= if < \v(version) 700000 end 1 C-Kermit 7.0 or later required.i  @ ; TAP/IXO alphanumeric paging script for Kermit 95 and C-Kermit.D ; Authors: F. da Cruz and C. Gianone, Columbia University, September 1996.  ;e2 ; For use with C-Kermit 7.0 / K95 1.1.17 or later.@ ; For a detailed explanation, consult "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed., pp.454-456.  ;      >	TIA.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:41:47 +0200 7 From: "Rene RENE.SCHELBAUM" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>w, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMSG Message-ID: <3bcd6e35$0$58180$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>o  E "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> schrieb im Newsbeitragr* news:3BCD2367.5971327A@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU...	 > Hi All!nL > I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will bel > greatly appreciated. >s > TIA. >  > --	 > Cheers,nH > +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+G >  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222uG >  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222oH > +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   Hi!S  I We are using a Software provided by the austrian subsidiary of Scientific9 Games (www.scigames.com) It is working fine.c& Our contact is HESHMATPOUR@scigames.at   Regards-   Rene Schelbaum Datakom Austria GesmbH   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:22:20 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <49qqst0dgkklehv5raq5qgn85ker7emfbe@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:57:39 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev"e! <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:J  	 >Hi Alan,tV >	the SMS-ing you described is sort of paging, and it's not allow to writting SMS from >cell-phone, is not ?f  E It entirely depends on the cellular network provider. At least two of D the UK cell service providers were able to provide me with a dial-upF number using the TAP pager protocol which interfaced with SMS. There'sE very little difference after all in sending a text message to a pager D and a text message to a phone. At least one other provider could not= provide such an interface but did point me at an alternative.      >Alan Greig wrote: >> a: >> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:21:27 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev"$ >> <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote: >> u >> >Hi All! ] >> >       I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will bea >> >greatly appreciated. >> wH >> I've used the Ckermit TAP scripts to send SMS messages before. If theD >> cellphone company you use provides a TAP ( Telocator AlphanumericF >> Protocol) dial-up interface then the kermit APAGE script will work.F >> Alternatively some providers have email to SMS or web/SMS gateways. >> r7 >> Here's the header info from the Kermit sample scriptK >>   >> ; >> ; File APAGE.KSCT >> ; Version 4.0 >> ;@ >> if < \v(version) 700000 end 1 C-Kermit 7.0 or later required. >> iC >> ; TAP/IXO alphanumeric paging script for Kermit 95 and C-Kermit. G >> ; Authors: F. da Cruz and C. Gianone, Columbia University, Septembert >> 1996. >> ;5 >> ; For use with C-Kermit 7.0 / K95 1.1.17 or later.aC >> ; For a detailed explanation, consult "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed.,o >> pp.454-456. >> ; >>   >> >       TIA.  >> ' >> --  >> Alan1   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:03:43 +0400-4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <3BCD739F.BAF6BFC2@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi Rene,. 	sorry, I cannot find SMS product at the site.   "Rene RENE.SCHELBAUM" wrote: > G > "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> schrieb im Newsbeitrag , > news:3BCD2367.5971327A@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU... > > Hi All!rN > > I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers	 > will bem > > greatly appreciated. > >v > > TIA. > >t > > -- > > Cheers,kJ > > +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+I > >  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222,I > >  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222-J > > +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm + >  > Hi!z > K > We are using a Software provided by the austrian subsidiary of ScientificH > Games (www.scigames.com) > It is working fine.n( > Our contact is HESHMATPOUR@scigames.at > 	 > Regards$ >  > Rene Schelbaum > Datakom Austria GesmbH   -- . Cheers, F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222 E  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222dF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:06:11 +0400r4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <3BCD7433.AEE6A55D@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>  S 	We are mobile phone company, and we need to interoperate with MSC with a TCAP/SS7.e   	Anyway thanks for the info.   Alan Greig wrote:s > 9 > On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:57:39 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev" # > <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:e >  > >Hi Alan,i^ > >       the SMS-ing you described is sort of paging, and it's not allow to writting SMS from > >cell-phone, is not ?e > G > It entirely depends on the cellular network provider. At least two of,F > the UK cell service providers were able to provide me with a dial-upH > number using the TAP pager protocol which interfaced with SMS. There'sG > very little difference after all in sending a text message to a pager-F > and a text message to a phone. At least one other provider could not? > provide such an interface but did point me at an alternative.m >  > >Alan Greig wrote: > >>< > >> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:21:27 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev"& > >> <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote: > >>
 > >> >Hi All!o_ > >> >       I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will be  > >> >greatly appreciated. > >>J > >> I've used the Ckermit TAP scripts to send SMS messages before. If theF > >> cellphone company you use provides a TAP ( Telocator AlphanumericH > >> Protocol) dial-up interface then the kermit APAGE script will work.H > >> Alternatively some providers have email to SMS or web/SMS gateways. > >>9 > >> Here's the header info from the Kermit sample scriptn > >> > >> ; > >> ; File APAGE.KSC  > >> ; Version 4.0 > >> ;B > >> if < \v(version) 700000 end 1 C-Kermit 7.0 or later required. > >>E > >> ; TAP/IXO alphanumeric paging script for Kermit 95 and C-Kermit. I > >> ; Authors: F. da Cruz and C. Gianone, Columbia University, September 
 > >> 1996. > >> ;7 > >> ; For use with C-Kermit 7.0 / K95 1.1.17 or later.vE > >> ; For a detailed explanation, consult "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed.,  > >> pp.454-456. > >> ; > >> > >> >       TIA.t > >> > >> --e	 > >> AlanB >  > -- > Alan   -- n Cheers,CF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222kE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222oF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:22:20 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n, Subject: Re: Wanted:SMS Center under OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <105rstka80tlf5cknnlbok8frn7dkdt2nf@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:06:11 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev" ! <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:s   >eT >	We are mobile phone company, and we need to interoperate with MSC with a TCAP/SS7. >l >	Anyway thanks for the info.k  D That makes a huge difference!! I assumed you just wanted to send SMS from VMS   >Alan Greig wrote: >> I: >> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:57:39 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev"$ >> <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote: >> I >> >Hi Alan,_ >> >       the SMS-ing you described is sort of paging, and it's not allow to writting SMS from  >> >cell-phone, is not ? >>  H >> It entirely depends on the cellular network provider. At least two ofG >> the UK cell service providers were able to provide me with a dial-up1I >> number using the TAP pager protocol which interfaced with SMS. There'sWH >> very little difference after all in sending a text message to a pagerG >> and a text message to a phone. At least one other provider could not @ >> provide such an interface but did point me at an alternative. >>   >> >Alan Greig wrote:| >> >>r= >> >> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:21:27 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev" ' >> >> <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:( >> >>1 >> >> >Hi All!` >> >> >       I looking for Short Message Service soluting for the OpenVMS, any pointers will be >> >> >greatly appreciated.S >> >> K >> >> I've used the Ckermit TAP scripts to send SMS messages before. If therG >> >> cellphone company you use provides a TAP ( Telocator AlphanumericeI >> >> Protocol) dial-up interface then the kermit APAGE script will work.5I >> >> Alternatively some providers have email to SMS or web/SMS gateways.. >> >>s: >> >> Here's the header info from the Kermit sample script >> >>t >> >> ;i >> >> ; File APAGE.KSC >> >> ; Version 4.0  >> >> ;.C >> >> if < \v(version) 700000 end 1 C-Kermit 7.0 or later required.h >> >>eF >> >> ; TAP/IXO alphanumeric paging script for Kermit 95 and C-Kermit.J >> >> ; Authors: F. da Cruz and C. Gianone, Columbia University, September >> >> 1996.c >> >> ;e8 >> >> ; For use with C-Kermit 7.0 / K95 1.1.17 or later.F >> >> ; For a detailed explanation, consult "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed., >> >> pp.454-456.  >> >> ;O >> >>  >> >> >       TIA. >> >>R >> >> --
 >> >> Alan >> M >> --a >> Alan    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 09:12:03 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: web site with ways to hack vmsh< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110170812.896c064@posting.google.com>  ( here is a site with ways to hack vms ...  . http://manson.vistech.net/ht_root/Hack-VMS-faq  = they are mostly all the result of not setting up and securing3= your vms system properly, but they may help you think of some = things you may have never thought of securing ... notice theyM: are asking for a way to run com routines thru vms mail ... i don't think so!_   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:26:58 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>r3 Subject: Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centrea) Message-ID: <3BCD4EE2.C93CB514@gtech.com>    Jerry Leslie wrote:yC >    Observers believe that Windows 2000 Datacenter Server will seetG >    increased adoption by customers as they come to accept Microsoft'sgJ >    claims of reliability - the company is aiming the operating system at9 >    mission-critical environments, such as data centres.e  J > Given Microsoft's track record to-date on "reliability and suitability",@ > this is wishful thinking without further technology donations. > L > The pro-Microsoft PHBs are fond of saying "Well, NT is where VMS 3.x was".J > A fairer comparision is to compute the age of WNT/W2K/WXP, and then lookG > to see where VMS was after that many years. VMS 3.x is still ahead of  > today's NT in reliability.  C I think there are a basic flaw in the logic "OK - maybe MS softwarelC are not ssecure and reliable today, but it will be next year, so wen shouldE switch to it now": MS software are not getting better - it is getting. worse  over time !!!!   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:36:10 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e3 Subject: Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centreu+ Message-ID: <3BCD5F0D.8BEC0D0@videotron.ca>    Arne Vajhj wrote:E > I think there are a basic flaw in the logic "OK - maybe MS softwareeE > are not ssecure and reliable today, but it will be next year, so wenN > should switch to it now": MS software are not getting better - it is getting > worse over time !!!!  H The sheep paradigm. Might as well jump off the bridge with everyone elseN because if you don't, you'll be left alone without any software since everyone' is jumping off the bridge to follow MS.   F I am sorry to say that this mentality does have some value. If you areL building an IT infrastructure, you will want to choose one which will last aN long time, has significant enough market share to attract all the "compatible"M software that you will need, is backed by a company whom you do not fear willhM drop the product etc. You will also choose a platform where it is easy to get_K workers, and where you get plenty of affordable shrinkwrapped software. YouhN will also make a popular choice because it is easier to justify that selectionQ to your superiors rather than selecting some obscure platform nobody knows about.   M So, even if in the short term, you may have more problems due to the platformaF not being very mature, if that platform shows a lot of potential, thenJ choosing it now to start building your long term infrastucture is not that8 stupid even if it costs you lots of headaches initially.  M Interestingly, Microsoft's insistence in constantly renaming its products andkN claiming revolutionary changes doesn't really help its image in the enterprise> market. Companies prefer a nice evolution of the same product.  M And it is a real shame that corporations don't look back a bit more. When youeG look at messaging on Microsoft platforms, how many complete changes didbJ corporations go through since the early LAN mails systems started on DOS ?J (cc:mail, MS-Mail, Lotus-Notes, Exchange etc) with each change requiring aK major incompatible change. If you look at VMS, Digital had a single productLK that was able to evolve from a character cell interface in the 1980s to webgN based and POP/IMAP right now, while still maintaining character cell interfaceM as well we the in-between client-server stuff. When you think about it, it isnN quite a potent advantage for a corporation that could have grown and evolved aM single email backbone in a 20 year timeframe instead of constantly restartingo from stractch.  N Unfortunatly, Digital chose to push Microsoft bloatware instead of pushing itsK own and showing the world how a properly engineered product can evolve withI5 you without having to constantly re-invent the wheel.l  M One thing you have to give to Microsoft: Marketing and Mind Share.  And BillywL Gates is also patient. He knew he wouldn't concquer the world overnight. ButM NT has already done one hell of a giant leap into the IT industry and as long M as NT (or whatever its name this week) continues to move forwards and upwardst4 in the enterprise, I think that Billy will be happy.  M Microsoft needed a serious chip for its "NT mainframes". It had bet on Alpha,eK but clearly, Compaq wasn't interested in Alpha so Microsoft now has to wait.L for IA64 before having any hopes of penetrating the high end market. So I amN not worried about stories of its data-centre edition not having taken over the world **YET**.  I **IF** microsoft gets its act together in the next couple of years, it is,H poised to beat Unix for one good reason: by having its proprietary OS itL controls, Microsoft is theoretically able to do much more to advance it thanL any Unix vendor who is somewhat limited in what they can do to improve theirC unix while keeping" unix compatibility" with all the other vendors.g  X Imagine what the VMS engineers will be able to do to NT once they are sold to Microsoft.  F Dismissing NT as a cheap , low quality buggy OS is a big mistake in myN opinion. Unlike VMS, NT has a bright assured future. Microsoft will eventuallyL get it right and so far, none of the big vendor (escept Sun and Oracle) have* had the guts to publicly blast Microsoft.   M The disapearance of Compaq is a good thing for Sun and IBM because there willvN be one less Microsoft-ass-licker. With only HP and Dell left to push NT in theL enterprise, the others will have a greater chance to blast NT and push their more serious offerings.   M However, if HP gets desperate enough and sells ist VMS engineers to MicrosoftoJ (similar to how Compaq sold its Alpha engineers to Intel), it will give NT some new life.  J One question which will start to be asked in the not too distant future isN whether Microsoft can actually be profitable in its current sales paradigm andI whether it can last long enough to continue funding NT until it is matureK$ enough to be taken really seriously.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 08:40:22 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data CentreR< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110170740.e849480@posting.google.com>  i "ClaudeVMS" <unix@dev.null> wrote in message news:<S46z7.64974$w62.39588900@news1.denver1.co.home.com>...eK > It is very depressing to see the worlds' best operating system sitting onn > thehI > sidelines while the Spartans (NT) and the Legless Wonders (UNIX) battleaL > to provide what was available in 1978 under VMS - many more times reliable > at that!!! >  >  >  > 8 > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message# > news:9qibog$h45$1@joe.rice.edu...1	 > > From:t > >r= > >    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2096347,00.htmltI > >    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - Windows fails to storm the data centrea > >i$ > >   "11:38 Monday 1st October 2001- > >    Computerwire.com  Source: Computerwire.K > >    So far, Microsoft's high-end Windows Datacenter Server hasn't been a-I > >    success. It will be a while before IT managers trust their largest- > >    systems to Microsoft: > > M > >    Microsoft's high-end answer to Unix - Windows Datacenter Server - willuJ > >    fail to see widescale adoption until late in 2002, nearly two yearsD > >    after its launch, because of concern among customers over the6 > >    operating system's reliability and suitability. > >    . > >    . > >    .E > >    Observers believe that Windows 2000 Datacenter Server will seerI > >    increased adoption by customers as they come to accept Microsoft's L > >    claims of reliability - the company is aiming the operating system at; > >    mission-critical environments, such as data centres.l > >fG > >    One reason for growing acceptance could come as more third-partyeG > >    applications and hardware configurations are certified under thefJ > >    Windows Datacenter Program - a year old this month. Ten ISVs and 12K > >    OEMs are already certified, with more expected in coming months, andaG > >    applications and hardware configurations are undergoing rigorouse > >    testing..." > >  > >ML > > Given Microsoft's track record to-date on "reliability and suitability",B > > this is wishful thinking without further technology donations. > >yN > > The pro-Microsoft PHBs are fond of saying "Well, NT is where VMS 3.x was".L > > A fairer comparision is to compute the age of WNT/W2K/WXP, and then lookI > > to see where VMS was after that many years. VMS 3.x is still ahead ofe > > today's NT in reliability. > >>J > > If Microsoft takes over computing, it's because the companies who sell; > > both Microsoft systems and competing products allow it.e > >a8 > > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  H actually, its kind of funny ... i get a lot of good laughs listening andD watching all the problems it managers are having and putting up withD because they don't know any better ... or they refuse to learn about) things other than what they already know!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:50:41 +0200 7 From: Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de>S  Subject: writing to shared files5 Message-ID: <3BCDC4F1.95EF58F3@EDV-Berater-Online.de>6  E With DCL there is a command SET OUTPUT_RATE. I use this with detachedtB processes to look continuously at output from the program running.  C I tried to get the same effect with log files directly written by a1D program developped in FORTRAN. However, I was not successful. I used> OPEN (USEROPEN=function) and tried several options in the FAB.  ? Does anyone know which bits have to be set in which FAB fields?    Thanks.S   Lothar Geyer   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.578 ************************