1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 18 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 580       Contents:" %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ?& Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ?& Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ?& Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? RE: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? RE: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? RE: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? RE: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation?4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk Re: Copy command...  ES40 12V BULK WARN Re: ES40 12V BULK WARN6 Re: ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again Re: Forcing alignment errors?  Re: Forcing alignment errors? L Re: Future VMS owners/plans, was:Re: More official info on Compaq/HP  mergerL Re: Future VMS owners/plans, was:Re: More official info on Compaq/HP  merger Re: Global symbol & Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors& Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors0 Re: Ingres (Was: Re: jobs? ingres vax/vms cobol) Kea v5.10j session hangs- Re: Linker64 producing un-INSTALLable images?  Mail-order service for Alphas?* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: Quotation for an AlphaServer 300 4/266, Re: Scott McNealy has no respect for Alpha's Re: Socket problem-URGENT   TCPIP HTTP EXITING BEFORE SOCKET7 TELNET sessions not closed, limit exceeded, how to fix? ; Re: TELNET sessions not closed, limit exceeded, how to fix?  Re: user authentification ! Utility to list Universal Symbols % Re: Utility to list Universal Symbols % Re: Utility to list Universal Symbols ; RE: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon! ; Re: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon! 8 VMS CELL BASED SESSIONS W/HTML ON BROWSERS COMMING SOON!A VMS server file sharing with W2K clients: NFS and Pathworks grief E Re: VMS server file sharing with W2K clients: NFS and Pathworks grief * Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication Re: VTEST on Alpha Re: VTEST on Alpha Re: writing to shared files  Re: writing to shared files  Re: writing to shared files  Re: writing to shared files  [MOZILLA] Applications ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:39:29 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com+ Subject: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ? 4 Message-ID: <C2256AE9.004AB775.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  7 We just moved this from a VAX running V6.2 to an Alpha. J The first backup command succeeds, but the second (syntax the same) fails.! Can anyone explain what is wrong?    $ show system/noprocess J OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node NODEX  18-OCT-2001 09:25:17.98  Uptime  4 19:28:07 $ show logical csdat$ 4    "CSDAT$" = "JAM315:[COSTDATA]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ show logical csbck$ 3    "CSBCK$" = "JAM350:[COSTBCK]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  $ show device jam350  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $1$DUA350:    (FDDI03)  Mounted              0  JAM350         1606895     6   4 $ type csdlyupd.log > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of CSLIB$ has been superseded $     ! : $     !---------------------------------------------------8 $     ! Copy following files to a directory that will be9 $     ! backed up to tape using the tape backup procedure : $     !--------------------------------------------------- $     ! 0 $  set prot=(o:rwed) csbck$:cd.dat,csbck$:cs.dat+ $  delete/log csbck$:cd.dat;,csbck$:cs.dat; ? %DELETE-I-FILDEL, JAM350:[COSTBCK]CD.DAT;1 deleted (470 blocks) B %DELETE-I-FILDEL, JAM350:[COSTBCK]CS.DAT;1 deleted (124270 blocks)0 %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 2 files deleted (124740 blocks) $     !  $  bac:==backup/log  $     ! $ $  bac csdat$:cd.dat; csbck$:cd.dat;3 %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created JAM350:[COSTBCK]CD.DAT;1 $ $  bac csdat$:cs.dat; csbck$:cs.dat;B %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening JAM350:[COSTBCK]CS.DAT; as output8   CS_TECHNICAL job terminated at 18-OCT-2001 03:12:57.07     Accounting information: O   Buffered I/O count:                204      Peak working set size:      10416 O   Direct I/O count:                 2691      Peak virtual size:         182288 O   Page faults:                       922      Mounted volumes:                0 O   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.30      Elapsed time:       0 00:00:23.89  $  $ help/message openout  .  OPENOUT,  error opening 'file-name' as output  &   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility  I   Explanation:  The Backup utility cannot open the specified output file.   M   User Action:  Determine why the file cannot be opened and repeat the backup                  operation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:45:46 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com/ Subject: Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ? / Message-ID: <00256AE9.005698AC.00@quegw01.btyp>   L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    I Well I can't offer a definitive reason for failure, as there isn't enough N information, but a couple of simple things to check would be firstly, does the@ file exist [CS.DAT] or is it open by another process or similar?  N What happens when you manually try to backup the file [outside this procedure]& and what happens if you COPY the file?  M As an aside, I might have expected to see a secondary error message after the  OPENOUT one.   Cheers   Steve Spires        4 norm.raphael@jamesbury.com on 10/18/2001 01:39:29 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) A From:      norm.raphael@jamesbury.com, 18 October 2001, 1:39 p.m.   " %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ?            7 We just moved this from a VAX running V6.2 to an Alpha. J The first backup command succeeds, but the second (syntax the same) fails.! Can anyone explain what is wrong?    $ show system/noprocess J OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node NODEX  18-OCT-2001 09:25:17.98  Uptime  4 19:28:07 $ show logical csdat$ 4    "CSDAT$" = "JAM315:[COSTDATA]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ show logical csbck$ 3    "CSBCK$" = "JAM350:[COSTBCK]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  $ show device jam350  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $1$DUA350:    (FDDI03)  Mounted              0  JAM350         1606895     6   4 $ type csdlyupd.log > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of CSLIB$ has been superseded $     ! : $     !---------------------------------------------------8 $     ! Copy following files to a directory that will be9 $     ! backed up to tape using the tape backup procedure : $     !--------------------------------------------------- $     ! 0 $  set prot=(o:rwed) csbck$:cd.dat,csbck$:cs.dat+ $  delete/log csbck$:cd.dat;,csbck$:cs.dat; ? %DELETE-I-FILDEL, JAM350:[COSTBCK]CD.DAT;1 deleted (470 blocks) B %DELETE-I-FILDEL, JAM350:[COSTBCK]CS.DAT;1 deleted (124270 blocks)0 %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 2 files deleted (124740 blocks) $     !  $  bac:==backup/log  $     ! $ $  bac csdat$:cd.dat; csbck$:cd.dat;3 %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created JAM350:[COSTBCK]CD.DAT;1 $ $  bac csdat$:cs.dat; csbck$:cs.dat;B %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening JAM350:[COSTBCK]CS.DAT; as output8   CS_TECHNICAL job terminated at 18-OCT-2001 03:12:57.07     Accounting information: O   Buffered I/O count:                204      Peak working set size:      10416 O   Direct I/O count:                 2691      Peak virtual size:         182288 O   Page faults:                       922      Mounted volumes:                0 O   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.30      Elapsed time:       0 00:00:23.89  $  $ help/message openout  .  OPENOUT,  error opening 'file-name' as output  &   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility  I   Explanation:  The Backup utility cannot open the specified output file.   M   User Action:  Determine why the file cannot be opened and repeat the backup                  operation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:27:59 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com/ Subject: Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ? 4 Message-ID: <C2256AE9.005A32A8.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  4 Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com on 10/18/2001 11:45:46 AM  , Please respond to Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc: 0 Subject:  Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ?        N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza >  > K > Well I can't offer a definitive reason for failure, as there isn't enough  > information,   What more would you want?   C > but a couple of simple things to check would be firstly, does the  > file exist [CS.DAT]   F The input exists (the error was opening output) and the old output was deleted above in the log.   . > or is it open by another process or similar? >   > Not open (As an aside, it happened at 3:12:57 in the morning).  P > What happens when you manually try to backup the file [outside this procedure]( > and what happens if you COPY the file?   Manual backup worked fine. > O > As an aside, I might have expected to see a secondary error message after the  > OPENOUT one.  , I agree.  Does BACKUP provide the secondary?   >  > Cheers >   7 The question remains, Can anyone explain what is wrong?    -Norm    > Steve Spires >       4 norm.raphael@jamesbury.com on 10/18/2001 01:39:29 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) A From:      norm.raphael@jamesbury.com, 18 October 2001, 1:39 p.m.   " %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ?            7 We just moved this from a VAX running V6.2 to an Alpha. J The first backup command succeeds, but the second (syntax the same) fails.! Can anyone explain what is wrong?    $ show system/noprocess J OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node NODEX  18-OCT-2001 09:25:17.98  Uptime  4 19:28:07 $ show logical csdat$ 4    "CSDAT$" = "JAM315:[COSTDATA]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ show logical csbck$ 3    "CSBCK$" = "JAM350:[COSTBCK]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  $ show device jam350  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $1$DUA350:    (FDDI03)  Mounted              0  JAM350         1606895     6   4 $ type csdlyupd.log > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of CSLIB$ has been superseded $     ! : $     !---------------------------------------------------8 $     ! Copy following files to a directory that will be9 $     ! backed up to tape using the tape backup procedure : $     !--------------------------------------------------- $     ! 0 $  set prot=(o:rwed) csbck$:cd.dat,csbck$:cs.dat+ $  delete/log csbck$:cd.dat;,csbck$:cs.dat; ? %DELETE-I-FILDEL, JAM350:[COSTBCK]CD.DAT;1 deleted (470 blocks) B %DELETE-I-FILDEL, JAM350:[COSTBCK]CS.DAT;1 deleted (124270 blocks)0 %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 2 files deleted (124740 blocks) $     !  $  bac:==backup/log  $     ! $ $  bac csdat$:cd.dat; csbck$:cd.dat;3 %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created JAM350:[COSTBCK]CD.DAT;1 $ $  bac csdat$:cs.dat; csbck$:cs.dat;B %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening JAM350:[COSTBCK]CS.DAT; as output8   CS_TECHNICAL job terminated at 18-OCT-2001 03:12:57.07     Accounting information: O   Buffered I/O count:                204      Peak working set size:      10416 O   Direct I/O count:                 2691      Peak virtual size:         182288 O   Page faults:                       922      Mounted volumes:                0 O   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.30      Elapsed time:       0 00:00:23.89  $  $ help/message openout  .  OPENOUT,  error opening 'file-name' as output  &   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility  I   Explanation:  The Backup utility cannot open the specified output file.   M   User Action:  Determine why the file cannot be opened and repeat the backup                  operation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:35:21 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> / Subject: Re: %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening ? 2 Message-ID: <txDz7.42919$Z2.645611@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  - <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in message . news:C2256AE9.005A32A8.00@jklh21.valmet.com... >...H > The input exists (the error was opening output) and the old output was > deleted above in the log.  >...  I I seem to recall, but maybe I am mistaken, there was a bug in BACKUP that K reported an error opening the output file when the error was really opening K the input file. It seems to me that it was an Alpha only, V7.something bug. K Like I said, I may be remembering something wrong, but do a quick check and % see if all patches are on the system.    --L "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with yourL eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long! to return."  -  Leonardo da Vinci L "When once you have tasted VMS, you will forever walk the earth knowing thatF a stable OS exists, for you have used it, and to its security you will& always long to return." - Not Leonardo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:06:07 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 5 Message-ID: <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  N >In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >Gunshannon) writes:2 >> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,9 >>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:  >> |> H >> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they started >> |> implementing >> |> new bits of VMS in C?  >> |>  >>  = >> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-)  > 5 >No, because programmers were more readily available.   O I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.  Aren't  I most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming of letting  K buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to be capable of  L controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in to write code  without thinking.   N Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  The former was M used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language of choice  # by Hunter when he moved from Macro.    But as Larry said ....   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:31:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? , Message-ID: <3BCEAF5E.66A897AB@videotron.ca>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:P > I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.  Aren'tJ > most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming of letting > buffer overruns occur?      M Actually, C is perhaps better than more conventional languages such as Basic, I Cobol, Fortran. It is more "natural" with C's pointers to use dynamically , allocated buffers than with older languages.  M But if the DOS/Nintendo generation programmers are brough up with a mentality N of pre-declaring character strings and don't ensure that they never try to putL more stuff in it than can fit, then that is poor programming, no matter what
 language.   L In other words, if your buffer is 256 bytes long but your IO request doesn'tB limit each IO to 256 characters, then you are begging for trouble.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:58:32 +0100 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 8 Message-ID: <qogtststo1poh7bo5fnm04b3aklkjda4o8@4ax.com>  F On 17 Oct 2001 21:30:01 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  a >In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:V2 >> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,9 >>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:o >> |> H >> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they started >> |> implementing >> |> new bits of VMS in C?  >> |>  >> S= >> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-)S >p5 >No, because programmers were more readily available.e  G I would maintain that you ought to hire programmers for O/S developmenteA (and even maintenance) based on their skills at understanding theoD fundamentals and their ability to code well in any language you gaveE them a couple of hours to learn.  So, you look for a good programmer,t? and then teach them (insert language of choice) when necessary.o     	Johnu -- V
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 09:09:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 3 Message-ID: <WzhKYVtkCEfv@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  o In article <qogtststo1poh7bo5fnm04b3aklkjda4o8@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:sH > On 17 Oct 2001 21:30:01 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > wrote: > b >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:3 >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,g: >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes: >>> |> oI >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they startedo >>> |> implementingq >>> |> new bits of VMS in C? >>> |> o >>> > >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-) >>6 >>No, because programmers were more readily available. > I > I would maintain that you ought to hire programmers for O/S development C > (and even maintenance) based on their skills at understanding theIF > fundamentals and their ability to code well in any language you gaveG > them a couple of hours to learn.  So, you look for a good programmer,sA > and then teach them (insert language of choice) when necessary.t  B That is an interesting theory, but not responsive to the question.  G The question was "Why do you think they started new bits of VMS in C?".b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:37:45 -0400T5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 1 Message-ID: <eHCz7.639$RL6.5811@news.cpqcorp.net>n  L I think it is a combination of things.  1)  It was made easier to do that onJ the VAX, although I certainly wrote some "interesting" kernel mode code onK VAX in C.  2) Engineers like to have skills that are transferable.  3) Long J term, it is easier to find people who already are profficient in C, not inI Bliss - and it eliminates one more thing that people need to learn beforej they are productive.    $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...G >In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.eduo (Bill Gunshannon) writes:A2 >> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,9 >>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:w >> |> H >> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they started >> |> implementing >> |> new bits of VMS in C?t >> |>" >>= >> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-)b > 5 >No, because programmers were more readily available.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:41:35 -0400o5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?c1 Message-ID: <NKCz7.640$RL6.5836@news.cpqcorp.net>   G At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?PH Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people who know, orG want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* anf appealing prospect.h  L Has nothing to do with the merits of the language.  Just its acceptance.  ItK would be like proposing to write some new VMS code in PL/1 - even though itrE may be just the right choice for the specific task - *someone* has tosF maintain it.  Again pointing to why using C for*new* code makes sense.      0 paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in message, <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>... >Larry Kilgallen wrote:  > H >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (BillA >>Gunshannon) writes:S3 >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>, : >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes: >>> |>I >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they startedf >>> |> implementingd >>> |> new bits of VMS in C? >>> |> >>>r> >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-) >>6 >>No, because programmers were more readily available. > G >I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.  Aren'tI >most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming of lettingmK >buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to be capable ofyL >controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in to write code >without thinking. >iJ >Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  The former wascF >used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language of choice$ >by Hunter when he moved from Macro. >. >But as Larry said ....j >: >Regards, PaddyE >T   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:57:24 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>u' Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation?e9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEDNDHAA.tom@kednos.com>i  B Well, Fred, you can lead or you can follow.  I note that IBM stillE does most of their coding in PL/S, a PL/I variant, why, because it isoJ more reliable and productive.  They take the time and money to train theirA engineers to use the language.  I guess you get what you pay for.s     > -----Original Message-----< > From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]* > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:42 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com:) > Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?m >c > I > At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?oJ > Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people who know, orI > want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* ana > appealing prospect.b >t> > Has nothing to do with the merits of the language.  Just its > acceptance.  ItsC > would be like proposing to write some new VMS code in PL/1 - even8 > though it9G > may be just the right choice for the specific task - *someone* has toSH > maintain it.  Again pointing to why using C for*new* code makes sense. >T >T >E2 > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in message. > <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>... > >Larry Kilgallen wrote:  > > J > >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu > (Billn > >>Gunshannon) writes:05 > >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,I< > >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes: > >>> |>K > >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they startedg > >>> |> implementingh > >>> |> new bits of VMS in C? > >>> |> > >>>a@ > >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-) > >>8 > >>No, because programmers were more readily available. > >sI > >I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.0 > Aren'tK > >most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming of lettinglB > >buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to be > capable ofC > >controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in to  > write code > >without thinking. > >KL > >Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  The former > wasMH > >used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language of > choice& > >by Hunter when he moved from Macro. > >d > >But as Larry said ....2 > >  > >Regards, Paddys > >  >  >1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:50:51 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? ) Message-ID: <3BCF086B.7AA01CA6@127.0.0.1>0   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?'J > Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people who know, orI > want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* anA > appealing prospect.h [cut]c  E While I'd agree with you Fred about Ada's "acceptance and use", it is-? also fair to say it's used [IME] almost exclusively in aircraft0E software. There were reasons for the initial decision, and reasons torG keep it there. There's quite a few nobodies keeping those somebodies upt in the air, literally!  @ It's all pretty much fly by wire, and Ada's pulling the strings.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comN   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:48:57 -0400e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?s1 Message-ID: <HODz7.649$RL6.5902@news.cpqcorp.net>o  K What part of IBM?  It's a pretty big company.  Somehow I can't imagine thateH significant amount of AIX are written in PL/1.  PL/1 is one of the firstJ languages I learned, but I wouldn't want to have to write operating system code in it.p  L We still have significant code written in Bliss.  But the amount of new code is on the decline.     Tom Linden wrote in message ...pC >Well, Fred, you can lead or you can follow.  I note that IBM stilleF >does most of their coding in PL/S, a PL/I variant, why, because it isK >more reliable and productive.  They take the time and money to train their.B >engineers to use the language.  I guess you get what you pay for. >n >m >> -----Original Message-----s= >> From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]m+ >> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:42 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >> Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? >> >>J >> At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?K >> Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people who know, ortJ >> want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* an >> appealing prospect. >>? >> Has nothing to do with the merits of the language.  Just its  >> acceptance.  ItD >> would be like proposing to write some new VMS code in PL/1 - even >> though itH >> may be just the right choice for the specific task - *someone* has toI >> maintain it.  Again pointing to why using C for*new* code makes sense.  >> >> >>3 >> paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in messaget/ >> <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>...  >> >Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> >K >> >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu  >> (Bill >> >>Gunshannon) writes:6 >> >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,= >> >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:-	 >> >>> |> L >> >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think they started >> >>> |> implementing >> >>> |> new bits of VMS in C?-	 >> >>> |>- >> >>>A >> >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-)s >> >> 9 >> >>No, because programmers were more readily available.L >> >J >> >I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.	 >> Aren'tdL >> >most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming of lettingC >> >buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to be.
 >> capable of-D >> >controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in to
 >> write codeC >> >without thinking.e >> >F >> >Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  The former >> wasI >> >used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language of 	 >> choicer' >> >by Hunter when he moved from Macro.c >> > >> >But as Larry said .... >> > >> >Regards, Paddy >> > >> >> >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:58:17 -0700h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ' Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEEADHAA.tom@kednos.com>n  G MVS and a lot of the systems software for one,  on AIX I think only the H compilers.  If you wouldn't want to write an OS in PL/I, I would suggest, that you may have forgotten the language :-}   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]* > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:49 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.) > Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?  >n > @ > What part of IBM?  It's a pretty big company.  Somehow I can't > imagine thatJ > significant amount of AIX are written in PL/1.  PL/1 is one of the firstL > languages I learned, but I wouldn't want to have to write operating system
 > code in it.n >eB > We still have significant code written in Bliss.  But the amount
 > of new codeP > is on the decline. >  >n! > Tom Linden wrote in message ...wE > >Well, Fred, you can lead or you can follow.  I note that IBM still H > >does most of their coding in PL/S, a PL/I variant, why, because it isA > >more reliable and productive.  They take the time and money to 
 > train theirnD > >engineers to use the language.  I guess you get what you pay for. > >t > >  > >> -----Original Message----- ? > >> From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com] - > >> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:42 AMv > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, > >> Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? > >> > >>L > >> At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?@ > >> Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people > who know, orL > >> want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* an > >> appealing prospect. > >>A > >> Has nothing to do with the merits of the language.  Just itsd > >> acceptance.  ItF > >> would be like proposing to write some new VMS code in PL/1 - even > >> though itJ > >> may be just the right choice for the specific task - *someone* has toK > >> maintain it.  Again pointing to why using C for*new* code makes sense.l > >> > >> > >>5 > >> paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in message'1 > >> <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>..., > >> >Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >> >3 > >> >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>,C > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edui
 > >> (Bill > >> >>Gunshannon) writes:8 > >> >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,? > >> >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:f > >> >>> |>nA > >> >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think  > they started > >> >>> |> implementing! > >> >>> |> new bits of VMS in C?r > >> >>> |>r > >> >>>C > >> >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-)  > >> >> ; > >> >>No, because programmers were more readily available.. > >> >L > >> >I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this. > >> Aren'tmC > >> >most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programmingm > of lettingE > >> >buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to ben > >> capable of F > >> >controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in to > >> write codeo > >> >without thinking.t > >> >H > >> >Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  The > former > >> wasK > >> >used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language ofe > >> choicet) > >> >by Hunter when he moved from Macro.e > >> > > >> >But as Larry said .... > >> > > >> >Regards, Paddy > >> > > >> > >> > >o >  >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:08:31 -0400t5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?t1 Message-ID: <i0Ez7.650$RL6.5686@news.cpqcorp.net>5  " It has been some 25+ years now ;-)     Tom Linden wrote in message ...tH >MVS and a lot of the systems software for one,  on AIX I think only theI >compilers.  If you wouldn't want to write an OS in PL/I, I would suggeste- >that you may have forgotten the language :-}a >n >> -----Original Message-----b= >> From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]K+ >> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:49 AM: >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >> Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? >> >>A >> What part of IBM?  It's a pretty big company.  Somehow I can't. >> imagine thatwK >> significant amount of AIX are written in PL/1.  PL/1 is one of the first F >> languages I learned, but I wouldn't want to have to write operating system >> code in it. >>C >> We still have significant code written in Bliss.  But the amount  >> of new code >> is on the decline.w >> >>" >> Tom Linden wrote in message ...F >> >Well, Fred, you can lead or you can follow.  I note that IBM stillI >> >does most of their coding in PL/S, a PL/I variant, why, because it istB >> >more reliable and productive.  They take the time and money to >> train theirE >> >engineers to use the language.  I guess you get what you pay for.g >> > >> >  >> >> -----Original Message-----@ >> >> From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]. >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:42 AM >> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma- >> >> Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?  >> >>g >> >>WG >> >> At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.m Why?A >> >> Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding peopler >> who know, orcJ >> >> want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* an >> >> appealing prospect.n >> >>oB >> >> Has nothing to do with the merits of the language.  Just its >> >> acceptance.  It0G >> >> would be like proposing to write some new VMS code in PL/1 - even> >> >> though itoK >> >> may be just the right choice for the specific task - *someone* has to L >> >> maintain it.  Again pointing to why using C for*new* code makes sense. >> >>  >> >>e >> >>a6 >> >> paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in message2 >> >> <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>... >> >> >Larry Kilgallen wrote:g >> >> >o4 >> >> >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, >> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu >> >> (Billm >> >> >>Gunshannon) writes:o9 >> >> >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,t@ >> >> >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes: >> >> >>> |>B >> >> >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you think >> they startedv >> >> >>> |> implementingu" >> >> >>> |> new bits of VMS in C? >> >> >>> |>	 >> >> >>>CD >> >> >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-) >> >> >>< >> >> >>No, because programmers were more readily available. >> >> >AG >> >> >I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language forn this.  >> >> Aren'tD >> >> >most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming
 >> of lettingeF >> >> >buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to be >> >> capable ofG >> >> >controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in tol >> >> write code >> >> >without thinking. >> >> >nI >> >> >Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  Thep	 >> former 	 >> >> wasiL >> >> >used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language of >> >> choice* >> >> >by Hunter when he moved from Macro. >> >> >  >> >> >But as Larry said ..... >> >> >  >> >> >Regards, Paddye >> >> >e >> >>. >> >>t >> > >> >> >|   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 12:17:42 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?e3 Message-ID: <Y$tiB$yIkMJe@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  T In article <3BCF086B.7AA01CA6@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J >> At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?K >> Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people who know, or J >> want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* an >> appealing prospect. > [cut]  > G > While I'd agree with you Fred about Ada's "acceptance and use", it islA > also fair to say it's used [IME] almost exclusively in aircrafth > software.h  B While that was formerly the case, Ada has also been widely adopted' for railroad/subway signalling systems.L  B The weak points are, for those of us in the US, it is not used for0 either air traffic control or medical equipment.  D Regarding the former, my impression of the reason for the deploymentB of NATO AWACS planes to US airspace is to take up the slack if theB ground-based air traffic control system goes belly up.  Terrorists? do not appear to me the most likely cause of problems with that  30 year old system.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:19:23 -0400@# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> ' Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation?h: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAMEGHDLAA.dallen@nist.gov>  " 	Actually Fred said PL/1 not PL/I.   > -----Original Message-----* > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]+ > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:58 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms) > Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation?s >  > I > MVS and a lot of the systems software for one,  on AIX I think only thenJ > compilers.  If you wouldn't want to write an OS in PL/I, I would suggest. > that you may have forgotten the language :-} >  > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com], > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:49 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComX+ > > Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?b > >t > >eB > > What part of IBM?  It's a pretty big company.  Somehow I can't > > imagine thatL > > significant amount of AIX are written in PL/1.  PL/1 is one of the firstN > > languages I learned, but I wouldn't want to have to write operating system > > code in it.L > >JD > > We still have significant code written in Bliss.  But the amount > > of new codeI > > is on the decline. > >c > > # > > Tom Linden wrote in message ... G > > >Well, Fred, you can lead or you can follow.  I note that IBM stillaJ > > >does most of their coding in PL/S, a PL/I variant, why, because it isC > > >more reliable and productive.  They take the time and money tol > > train their.F > > >engineers to use the language.  I guess you get what you pay for. > > >o > > >u! > > >> -----Original Message-----nA > > >> From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]o/ > > >> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:42 AMw  > > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. > > >> Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? > > >> > > >>N > > >> At the risk of offending Larry, Ada is probably the worst choice.  Why?B > > >> Well because almost nobody writes in Ada, so finding people > > who know, orN > > >> want to learn Ada to maintain the small amount of it in VMS is *not* an > > >> appealing prospect. > > >>C > > >> Has nothing to do with the merits of the language.  Just itsd > > >> acceptance.  ItH > > >> would be like proposing to write some new VMS code in PL/1 - even > > >> though itL > > >> may be just the right choice for the specific task - *someone* has toM > > >> maintain it.  Again pointing to why using C for*new* code makes sense.  > > >> > > >> > > >>7 > > >> paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in message.3 > > >> <01K9NQ6Z7GQQ0066Q8@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>...> > > >> >Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >> >5 > > >> >>In article <9ql5de$2q2r$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>,> > > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> > > >> (Bill > > >> >>Gunshannon) writes:: > > >> >>> In article <3BCCF601.6CC5030D@cableinet.co.uk>,A > > >> >>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:'
 > > >> >>> |>aC > > >> >>> |> ANyway, back to your original point, why do you thinki > > they started > > >> >>> |> implementing# > > >> >>> |> new bits of VMS in C?A
 > > >> >>> |> 
 > > >> >>>E > > >> >>> Maybe because it's the best language for the job??     :-)i	 > > >> >>u= > > >> >>No, because programmers were more readily available.a > > >> >N > > >> >I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.
 > > >> Aren'teE > > >> >most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming  > > of lettingG > > >> >buffer overruns occur?  At least our VMS engineering seem to be  > > >> capable of-H > > >> >controlling such things, but they're not kids just brought in to > > >> write code2 > > >> >without thinking.e > > >> >J > > >> >Bliss and/or ADA would seem more appropriate for a secure OS.  The
 > > former
 > > >> wasM > > >> >used extensively (I believe) on VAX, and seemed to be the language ofs
 > > >> choice + > > >> >by Hunter when he moved from Macro.t > > >> > > > >> >But as Larry said .... > > >> > > > >> >Regards, Paddy > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >  > >g > >i >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:23:05 GMT[3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?d/ Message-ID: <3BCF0F5A.2027C33F@cableinet.co.uk>n   JF Mezei wrote:s > ( > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:R > > I would suspect (I'm biased :-) that C is the worst language for this.  Aren'tL > > most of the hacks into Microsoft inspired by poor programming of letting > > buffer overruns occur? > O > Actually, C is perhaps better than more conventional languages such as Basic,cK > Cobol, Fortran. It is more "natural" with C's pointers to use dynamicallyo. > allocated buffers than with older languages. >   D F90 has pointers, anyway some of us learned to use %VAL and %REF VMS extensions, F call $EXPREG or map a section or declare a huge buffer array in common to do it in F77.7 Bounds checking is also useful in development at least.e  O > But if the DOS/Nintendo generation programmers are brough up with a mentalitywP > of pre-declaring character strings and don't ensure that they never try to putN > more stuff in it than can fit, then that is poor programming, no matter what > language.b > N > In other words, if your buffer is 256 bytes long but your IO request doesn'tD > limit each IO to 256 characters, then you are begging for trouble.  7 this is where null terminated strings can be dangerous.o     -- z Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  O  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 12:40:32 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)d' Subject: RE: A free VMS implementation?n3 Message-ID: <k1cydU4vuJqg@eisner.encompasserve.org>V  ` In article <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAMEGHDLAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: > $ > 	Actually Fred said PL/1 not PL/I.  5 I suppose the difference between the two is Subset G.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:47:29 GMTm3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>u' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation?>/ Message-ID: <3BCF1523.19607174@cableinet.co.uk>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:   > D > While that was formerly the case, Ada has also been widely adopted) > for railroad/subway signalling systems.i > D > The weak points are, for those of us in the US, it is not used for2 > either air traffic control or medical equipment.  H yup, if I was deploying air traffic control it would be have triple siteE redundancy just like those airbuses have 3 independent flight control> systems.C I was very impressed at the reliability of the ADA realtime process> control F code-generator application I used back in HEP days. I seem to rememberC an error logging package called EMU that was also very reliable andu
 written in ADA.    > F > Regarding the former, my impression of the reason for the deploymentD > of NATO AWACS planes to US airspace is to take up the slack if theD > ground-based air traffic control system goes belly up.  TerroristsA > do not appear to me the most likely cause of problems with thato > 30 year old system.i   scary indeed.    regardsl    -- r Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  f  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of o! my employers or service provider.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:54:29 GMT * From: Joshua Cope <joshua.cope@compaq.com>= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system diskh* Message-ID: <3BCED14E.B5ED58BA@compaq.com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > < > What is there about ODS-5 that makes it undoable on a VAX?  A Mostly RMS. The RMS code streams are different enough between VAXsF and Alpha that it wasn't just a matter of checking it in both places; ? it would have required significant additional development. ThisoC would have come at the expense of some of the new features we were d? developing on Alpha at the time (like Galaxy), and the decisiony* was made to use those resources elsewhere.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:43:34 -0400r0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> Subject: Re: Copy command...5 Message-ID: <YICz7.69982$TW.368305@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>f   Either command works. L With BACKUP do not forget to use /OWNER=ORIGINAL and with COPY you will haveG to create the root directory on the destination. Subdirectories will be  created as files get copied.   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)l> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  H "Virginia Flores" <virginiaflores@msn.com> a crit dans le message news:* OE1348AoRbU2LRXNbN00001de52@hotmail.com...K Either the COPY command or the BACKUP command will work equally well.  Yourt English is fine.   -V ----- Original Message ----- From: valdemir To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd) Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:24 PM2 Subject: Copy command...    
 Hello all:  L  What's the right way to copy all files, directories and subdirectories from     a device to another device ?  ?   $ copy/log disk$100:[sales...]*.*;*  disk$200:[sales...]*.*;*   I    This command will create directory's tree in the device disk$c200: ???e      Thanks in advance...i  ?    (Please, be pacient with my little English knowledgement...)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:28:35 +0100d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>S Subject: ES40 12V BULK WARNo8 Message-ID: <qp7tstsng9qfov6otvl5lfhodgnhjdl8lv@4ax.com>  F Anyone with ES40s seen the LCD display "12V BULK WARN" appear on powerD up? The last time we powered down one of our ES40s it booted up withF "12V BULK WARN" on the LCD display. We called FS and they replaced theF power supply. We just had to power down this system for 24 hours again< prior to electrical work and on power up the system is againF displaying the same warning. The system is operating normally and I amE about to call field service again but am wondering if anyone else haseF seen this and could the problem be with a sensor rather than the powerF supply itself? Anyone else seen this warning and what did FS do to fix it?>   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 18 OCT 2001 15:37:33 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: ES40 12V BULK WARNw6 Message-ID: <18OCT01.15373355@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  = In a previous article, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:A  H ->Anyone with ES40s seen the LCD display "12V BULK WARN" appear on powerF ->up? The last time we powered down one of our ES40s it booted up withH ->"12V BULK WARN" on the LCD display. We called FS and they replaced theH ->power supply. We just had to power down this system for 24 hours again> ->prior to electrical work and on power up the system is againH ->displaying the same warning. The system is operating normally and I amG ->about to call field service again but am wondering if anyone else has H ->seen this and could the problem be with a sensor rather than the powerH ->supply itself? Anyone else seen this warning and what did FS do to fix ->it?-  F See table 7-2 (RMC error messages) in your owners manual. Also, to see@ the value of the +12V supply, get into RMC (CTRL[CTRL[RMC at theE console) and type ENV at the RMC prompt. It gives you a nifty displayeG of all the environmental values and blinks those that are out of range.a  H We had a "CPU0 VCORE WARN" recently. Those voltages are regulated on theH "PCI board" (the PCI motherboard) which is a real dog to remove. I can'tH imagine that the +12 is regulated any other place than the PS. I suppose2 it could be the +12 sensor too (wherever that is).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:47:55 -0400v5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ? Subject: Re: ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again 1 Message-ID: <JQCz7.641$RL6.5801@news.cpqcorp.net>f  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3BCE4F30.65D2AFE3@videotron.ca>...s   >aI >There is much less software available on VMS now, so I guess the port to.K >Itanium won't result in so many software apps not being ported. However, I>J >suspect that much of the 3rd party freeware applications won't make it toL >IA64. If customers don't move to IA64, the apps they maintain won't move to >IA64. >s    I What makes you sure that 3rd party freeware won't make it to Itanium?  OrlA that "freeware" is the item critical to our customers operations?    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 03:54:15 -07001 From: charles_gilley@hotmail.com (Charles Gilley)>& Subject: Re: Forcing alignment errors?= Message-ID: <a46e1a08.0110180254.5dc8dddf@posting.google.com>4  E Okay, now I know why my bad memory does not match reality.  The portslF and work I have done a while back were numerically intensive, so I had' a lot more mis-alignment opportunities.>   Thanks, Ryan, for the info.i   chgA  p Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.31.0110171558570.24669-100000@jaipur>...J > There isn't an alignment problem here.  Alignment means that the item is/ > at an address that is 'natural' for its size.e > ( > Quadword (8-bytes) on 8-byte boundary. > Longword on 4-byte boundary. > short on 2-byte boundary > char on 1-byte boundary. > J > TestFlag is a character array.  Depending on the Alpha chip you have, itF > can't directly access a single character anyway.  So the compiler isF > forced to do make code (probably in terms on logwords) to store yourL > value.  It doesn't matter what address the char is at.  It's 'slow' either > way. > $ > Now, this would make a difference: >  > struct _st > {e > 	char Date[6]; > 	int  foo; > .  > .s > .> > }> > H > It should make a different how quickly the computer accesses the 'foo', > element based on the /nomember_align flag. > ' > On 17 Oct 2001, Charles Gilley wrote:g > H > > Okay, I admit, it has been a few years since I had to deal with thisH > > issue.  However, I'm in an argument with someone and want to prove a? > > point about using the /nomember_align flag.  We have a huge = > > application with large #s of data structures of the form:> > >A > >   struct _st > >   {' > >     char Date[6];t > >     char TestFlag[1];s	 > >     .r	 > >     . 	 > >     .e > >   } TYPE_ST; > >n > >   TYPE_ST AdataStructure;o > >tG > >   Now, in this data structure, we have liberal amounts of character F > > arrays that must result in alignment issues.  Well, I thought theyI > > would if we use /nomember_align.  However, the C compiler is happy onnG > > the alpha, and performance tests indicate that the contents of thishI > > structure are aligned.  This is driving me nuts... where am I missing  > > it?  Shouldn't this: > >>( > >    AdataStructure.TestFlag[0] = 'Y'; > > G > > be misaligned (not on a quad word boundary) and thus slow the alphas	 > > down?> > >e > > chg  > >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:35:44 -04002* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>& Subject: Re: Forcing alignment errors?) Message-ID: <3BCEDAB0.7080900@compaq.com>J   Charles Gilley wrote:gF > Okay, I admit, it has been a few years since I had to deal with thisF > issue.  However, I'm in an argument with someone and want to prove a= > point about using the /nomember_align flag.  We have a huges; > application with large #s of data structures of the form:   ) There are 3 situations that you can have:a  E 1) The data is aligned and the compiler knows it.  In this case, the hI generated code is often a single instruction (with EV56 and later, there o are byte and word instructions)s  I 2) The data is not aligned and the compiler knows it.  In this case, the  H generated code is often on the order of 4-6 instructions long.  Loading C a quadword, masking, shifting, etc. and storing back the quadword. rI There are interesting situations with volatile and /GRANULARITY settings.   F 3) The data is not aligned, but the compiler thought it was.  You can H see these situations with pointers and parameters.  In these cases, the E generated code is the often the single instruction, but the hardward  I will take an unaligned exception.  Those are fixed up in the PAL code at -B the cost of a 100 instructions or more for getting into/outof the H exception code.  These are normally fixed up silently.  You can monitor = these in the debugger and also with several services such as r= SYS$START_ALIGN_FAULT_REPORT and SYS$PERM_REPORT_ALIGN_FAULT.      -- n John Reagank' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 06:32:54 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)U Subject: Re: Future VMS owners/plans, was:Re: More official info on Compaq/HP  mergerd= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110180532.7c1216a3@posting.google.com>y  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BCE0210.DDC7D5E7@videotron.ca>...t > Simon Clubley wrote:J > > Perhaps the port of VMS to IA64 will be completed, but just not by HP. > O > HP will not sell VMS as a viable operating system to a competitor. As long asII > VMS is able to generate profits even without marketing, then it will benO > allowed to live. But as with before, no marketing and VMS won't get mentionede > in corporate presentations.t > K > What they may do is to doneate VMS and its engineers to Microsoft to helpnP > shore up NT in the enterprise, justy like they donated the Alpha engineers andP > IP to Intel. But if they do that, it will be don with some assurances that VMSO > won't be marketed by the buyer (eg: buy only the IP and engineers, not the OSi > and custoemrs).a > P > Either way, VMS will continue to be supported for existing customers by HP forP > a good number of years, with HP probably trying to convince those customers to7 > migrate to NT once NT gauins sufficient capabilities.a  ? nt will never be on the level of vms ... the nt kernel is not adB multiple instance kernel, and that is one of the powers of vms ... dave cutler andaD bill gates have failed to convert (steal) the dec mica logic ... the thinnestF of clients already exist on vms ... buying 1000 nt boxes compared to 1 alphaWD like someone suggested on this board elsewhere is not the future ... vmsrE galaxies or unix environments are ... nt has nothing else to gain ...  it isnF and always will be a client ... all these dreamers that believe nt has betterF days ahead are just that ... dreamers ... nt security (what security?) will> never be on the level of vms ... blue screens will continue to flourish ...6 wake up nt dreamers ... its as good as it gets now ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:23:48 -0400m5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>iU Subject: Re: Future VMS owners/plans, was:Re: More official info on Compaq/HP  merger>1 Message-ID: <omDz7.648$RL6.5847@news.cpqcorp.net>   ! Bob Ceculski wrote in message ...s; >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message >     @ >nt will never be on the level of vms ... the nt kernel is not aC >multiple instance kernel, and that is one of the powers of vms ...c    K I love this logic.  You confuse the Windows Executive Environment, with the,
 NT Kernel.   Sheesh.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:41:48 +0100C3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>u Subject: Re: Global symbol. Message-ID: <9qmmge$6m9$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>  ; "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote in message / news:brjz7.69772$TW.367131@tor-nn1.netcom.ca... G > Boolean IF constructs like these work like an implicit .AND. 1 .EQ. 1M >oG > IF X THEN is the same as IF X .AND. 1 .EQ. 1 THEN is the same as IF Xn .AND.1 > THEN >o > I sometimes do things like: A > $ FOUND = F$SEARCH("SOMEFILE.LIS") .NES. ""       ! file existstK > $ BIG = F$FILE("SOMEFILE.LIS","EOF") .GT. 1000    ! Bigger than 1000 blks  > $ IF FOUND .AND. BIG THEN ...u >s  / Another handy one I figured out works this way:m  ! $ EXISTS == """"" .NES. F$SEARCH"e  B You can then do (note the apostrophe - doesn't work without it...)  & $ IF 'EXISTS("*.TMP") THEN DEL *.TMP;* or:t= $ IF .NOT. 'EXISTS("APPLICATION.COM") THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT -e'  "Program APPLICATION.COM not found..."    Similarly, you could have:  " $ DEFINED == """"" .NES. F$TRNLNM"  $ SYM_SET == """"" .NES. F$TYPE"   and so on...  	 -Malcolm.l     > -- >c	 > SyltremjK > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)t@ > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address >r   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2001 23:56:34 -07006 From: philipp.lewis@deutsche-boerse.com (philip lewis)/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsf= Message-ID: <4ad76487.0110172256.28f1951b@posting.google.com>r  A Am I the only one that has actually bothered to read the thousande+ pages of judgments, findings of fact etc. ?l  C Last time I looked MS were still in the "guily as sin" bucket.  TheeF game is definitely not over and only Bursen-Marstellar and MS actually3 believe the spin they have produced on this matter.a  E Now it could be that the remedy ends up being like the bristol case -oC a $1 fine, or like the Caldera settlement (yep, read all that stuffa= too) where a paltry $100m for gross indiscretions was the "norE admission of guilt but we will pay this amount to prove our innocencea of this specious claim" remedy.r  F However, there will be a remedy judgement.  The parties have been sentD to forced mediation.  The "guilt" of MS has been legally established? and upheld on appeal essentially in toto.  The only question isuF remedy, where appeals were unhappy with procedure, not the guilt of MS or the proposal.  E It may get much more interesting yet, and for those of us who live inp9 Europe, the grumblings from the EU appear on the horizon.-   ciao p e bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<9ql5le$2q2r$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>...l- > In article <9qjot9$mho$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,e# >  david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:B > |>R > |> Intel and Microsoft ganging up to force a move to 64bit itanium would lead to > |> the biggest DOJ case ever.  > P > Microsoft has already tested those waters and found they have nothing to fear. >  > bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:54:12 -0400n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors 1 Message-ID: <DWCz7.642$RL6.5861@news.cpqcorp.net>e  L david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message <9qk8vv$rk5$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... >>K >>Heck, Alpha ran NT.  But that didn't make it succeed.  If Microsoft givesfK >>it's full support to it, then it will live, otherwise the 64-extension ofyH >>Hammer will be useless.  If MS throws itself into Itanium, it forces a churna >>of the 32-bit software.f >> >oG >The difference is that the 32bit software already exists (and will runt fasterL >on Hammer than on Itanium if someone really does want a 64bit desktop box).C >Microsoft is already getting a bashing for trying to force its newa	 licensingrG >policies on customers dropping support for all its 32bit apps would beoI >suicidal. Putting even more "new features" on the 64 bit apps won't workh eitherK >because most companies have now woken up to the fact that the new features L >(or bloatware) are not worth having. If for instance Microsoft were to make theyI >64 bit version of word incompatible with the version available on the 32u bit K >systems then most corporations would stick with the 32bit version since top doL >otherwise would cost them a fortune in the midst of a recession as they are. >forced to replace all their hardware at once. >e    K Lots of complaining... but has that translated into MS making *any* move tosL back down from it?  Despite still being in the middle of trying to negotiate a anti-trust settlement?  L All MS has to do is make it painful to continue to use 32-bit versions, justI like Win98 and beyond obsoleted all the old DOS and Windows code that rant
 for years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:58:33 -0400e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processors,1 Message-ID: <J_Cz7.643$RL6.5831@news.cpqcorp.net>   $ David Masterson wrote in message ... >>>>>> david20  writes:  >1D >> If for instance Microsoft were to make the 64 bit version of wordE >> incompatible with the version available on the 32 bit systems thennC >> most corporations would stick with the 32bit version since to doeE >> otherwise would cost them a fortune in the midst of a recession aso9 >> they are forced to replace all their hardware at once.f >sA >Incompatible how?  There were a lot of incompatibilities betweenpA >Word97, Word98, and Word2000.  Many companies had to keep Word97,B >around until they could get all their desktops converted to W2000G >because the claimed "backward-compatibility" wasn't.  The advantage ofoE >being a big monopoly is that Microsoft could ignore all the "little"qF >company's complaints long enough that they would be forced to upgrade3 >(and everyone is a "little" company to Microsoft).e >s    I You bet.  I was fat, dumb, and happy with Word 6.0 (or whatever), but theaE Company I work for has to keep in sync with things, and the corporatemK standard *required* me to upgrade MS Office.  Within a few months, I expectdI to be forced to W2K (which is now the corporate standard) from Windows 95 K (which is perfectly OK for my needs), which will probably require me to geteG a new laptop and a new desktop PC.  Which is *exactly* what both MS and- Intel want to be the result.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:04:43 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>l/ Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorss1 Message-ID: <t4Dz7.644$RL6.5751@news.cpqcorp.net>t  & Dubya to DOJ:  Setlle this damn thing.  L Come on.  The administration in power has a lot of clout on just how far DOJJ takes this sort of thing.  The settlement will be a lot like the last one,K lot of smoke, and it will be business as usual.  Sure, Dell will be able toe. put AOL on the default desktop - some victory.      D Bill Gunshannon wrote in message <9ql5ro$2q2r$5@info.cs.uofs.edu>...2 >In article <wahz7.592$RL6.5300@news.cpqcorp.net>,9 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:h >|>r- >|> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in messagen" <9qjot9$mho$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... >|> > J >|> >Intel and Microsoft ganging up to force a move to 64bit itanium would lead >|> to >|> >the biggest DOJ case ever.D >|> >T >|>3 >|>@0 >|> Not as long as the Republicans are in power. >|>  >iC >Short memory??  The Microsoft case was started and ended under thesB >Democrats.  By the time the Republicans got there the decision toC >let them run roughshod over the industry had already been made andDD >with it all the precedent Microsoft will ever need remain powerful. >  >billr >w >--sK >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvessE >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.r >University of Scranton   |l? >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:15:21 GMTp3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> / Subject: Re: Higher prices for Alpha processorsm/ Message-ID: <3BCF0D9C.91041B72@cableinet.co.uk>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageR; > news:NF1z7.513798$Lw3.31489676@news2.aus1.giganews.com...e > >vB > > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message/ > > news:pd1z7.533$RL6.4757@news.cpqcorp.net...nL > > > Seems to me that both you and Bill are wasted - *you* should be CEO's. > > How M > > > is it that your raw pearls of wisdom have gone unnoticed?  At least youh> > > > should be the head of Strategy for a Fortune 50 company. > >-M > > Actually, at least some of those pearls were noticed but discarded, since@N > > they were presented to Capellas (and then redirected to Marcello) about 17 > > months ago.  > N > Indeed they were. In addition to Michael Capellas, Bill Heil was a recipient > of the aforementioned pearls.e  @ I guess the problem was they were free pearls. Is it too late to retrospectivelyr bill Compaq for them?r   :-)n   (thats a smiley btw) --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  t  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of e! my employers or service provider.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:49:19 -0000'- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)t9 Subject: Re: Ingres (Was: Re: jobs? ingres vax/vms cobol)-7 Message-ID: <913E6C45Fwarrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>   3 rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam (Randy Park) wrote inj> >Ingres was a major database company back in the 80s and earlyD >90s.  If I remember correctly Ingres was originally developed in an= >academic environment and then taken commerical by Relationalw@ >Technology in Alameda (Oakland) California.  In its early years; >VMS was it's main development platform.  After significantA= >market success the company's name was changed to Ingres.  In:> >the early 90s it fell into financial trouble and was acquiredC >by ASK Computer Systems.  A few years later ASK got into financialt> >problems and was acquired by Computer Associates.  I think CA; >just milked the product and didn't do much marketing.  The  >last version I used was 6.4.r  F The original source tree (from Berkeley) that spawned Ingres is still J evolving in the open source space. It's now called PostgreSQL, and can be  had free at www.postgresql.org.t  I I've downloaded it (Linux version), built it (from source), installed it eG and run it on Redhat 6.2 and Slackware 7.1.  It has an ODBC driver for   Windoze clients.   ws   -- e   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer); The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 08:08:04 -0700$ From: ewilts@mediaone.net (Ed wilts)! Subject: Kea v5.10j session hangsI= Message-ID: <e12df3dd.0110180708.288e5cc7@posting.google.com>   F I am having a recurring problem with session hangs on Kea! V5.10j (theC latest version).  Attachmate won't talk to me without a maintenancetE contract.  I'm runnnig W2K and at least one other workstation here in[% my company has the identical problem.   C The problem is relatively easy to duplicate:  Simply start typing at@ very large file and do a ^C in the middle of it.  Sometimes justC letting it go without interrupting it will also hang it, but the ^CiD seems to trigger it more frequently.  When the session hangs, you'reE forced to do a session disconnect (Tools/Connection/Disconnect).  ThesC problem is more prevalent on my VMS sessions than my Linux sessionss8 but that could be because I use VMS far more than Linux.  C Has anyone else experienced this problem?  Any solutions or ideas? eF E-mail replies would be appreciated but I will watch for follow-ups as well.    Thanks,h	    .../Ed  mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:35:33 GMTe1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>r6 Subject: Re: Linker64 producing un-INSTALLable images?1 Message-ID: <3BCF0519.CEDAB92@clarityconnect.com>f  G This appears to be a bug in the LINKER64.EXE.  There is a patch kit fornF V7.3 but none for V7.2.  The customer should log a call to their localB CSC and request an elevation be done to acquire a new LINKER64.EXE image.   Shane Smith wrote: > G > Hi folks, it's the return of the Shane. I'm not regularly surfing thee* > group again yet, but I'm back in action. > F > I have run into something rather odd. We have a fairly large programC > that gets linked, and is normally installed with /read, /head and H > /share. This works for us on 6.2 and 7.2.. One of our customers, who'sI > on 7.2 and has installed the ADB073 kit including the LINKER64 package,rJ > links it with exactly the same link options. For him it puts some psectsG > in P2 space, causing the INSTALL utility to throw it out with the (astI > far as I can see) undocumented error NOINST64BIT. Unfortunately because.D > of his environment he has to link it himself, and when he bypasses? > LINK64 and uses LINK the NOINST64BIT goes away but he gets aneA > inexplicable subscript out of range out of the resulting image.o > J > There are only a few instructions in the OPT file relating to the psectsI > in question, of the form PSECT={psect_name},SOLITARY. (These predate myeG > arrival here, but apparently they're there for alignment purposes.) IFJ > figure this has to have something to do with it. However, I haven't beenJ > able to track down any documentation on LINK64 to see how it treats them. > or if there's a way to change the behaviour. > E > Does anyone know anything that might help me find the solution? Cane? > anyone point me to the right documentation, or send it to me?F >  > Shanee >  >  #####	 > #-O-O-#r	 > #  L  #a >  #===# >   ###D   -- vD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 09:02:53 -0700# From: tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) ' Subject: Mail-order service for Alphas? = Message-ID: <793af3df.0110180802.3d1bd040@posting.google.com>a  = Are there any service centers where you can ship an Alpha fort hardware repairs?y  @ We went off of contract recently, and I was trying to figure out? the cheapest way to get repairs.  We have some spares, so I can 2 stand to wait a few weeks to a service turnaround.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:36:21 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergery8 Message-ID: <933tst8q98lntrr1bv6rj2fv4qk4jlq5gv@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:00:09 GMT, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote:  O >I think somebody here said Carly had spoken favorably of this Aberdeen report.fM >If that's so, it could perhaps be considered an endorsement of the report's i
 >conclusions.e  C I've been trying to relocate Carly's comments on the Aberdeen GroupmB report. I think it may have been an interview on Techweb (or maybeD even MSNBC...) and I don't seem to be able to find video archives. IC know I came across it somewhere as that's what made me try and find  the report in the first place   E The comment was something like: "Well initially all the analysts wereaD extremely negative but as we work with them and explain our strategy@ they begin to see our vision. The Aberdeen Group for example hasC recently produced a very positive report." This suggests to me thatcD the Aberdeen Group report was produced after Carly spoke to them andA may, indeed, reflect her thinking - wrongheaded though it may be.a  E It s interesting to see the latest filing of Carly talking to GartnerpD quotes Gartner as saying that they initially believed the deal wouldA not go through but now that they "understood the dynamics" (ie itlB would be forced through) they had changed that opinion. They don'tF seem to have changed their opinion that it isn't a very good idea as I see it.      >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   >> ,N >> Compaq and HP seem to have filed darn near every bit of writing that's been$ >> done on the proposed acquisition.  F Hmm, I'll be extremely surprised to find The Register and The InquirerB reports filed. Wonder it any SKC stuff is there? These filings areB definitely selective. Perhaps I'll try and provide a break-down ofF filings if I have time over the weekend. A quick search of most of theD documents posted in the last month finds no third party reports withC anything encouraging to say about the VMS port. I will be happy forg0 pointers to anything positive I may have missed.   >>  M >> As for the credibility of the various market research/analyst firms, thererK >> was a recent "Analyzing The Analysts" write-up in one of the trade press 
 >> organs.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:01:44 +0100s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergerO8 Message-ID: <6i9tstsvripqvkk70o67gl8s6udkogg8ib@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:29:29 -0400, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  wrote:  M >They are clearly confused if they think they should dump OpenVMS so they canM6 >focus on telling OpenVMS customers how good HP-UX is.  D Carly tells us she has been talking to analysts and explaining theirD strategy. *If* Carly told the Aberdeen Group that she does not see aF future for VMS then the Aberdeen Group would not be at all confused inE suggesting that this be made public as soon as possible once HP takesA( over to get the bad news out of the way.  @ That does not mean to say I don't think it would be stupid but IF suspect it is Carly's stupidity which the Aberdeen Group are trying toE make the best of. Do you honestly get the impression Carly has a clue"C from reading her press statements? A common theme among analysts isrA that the only reason Carly and Curly are holding on to their jobsr@ right now is because they have "reset the clock" by starting the merger.o   >1 >>H >> Obviously I think it's a suicide note but does anyone seriously think
 >Curly and >> Carly have a clue?n >> >> >> >. >> > Q5: WILL YOU CONTINUE TO SUPPORT OPENVMS? >> >H >> > A: Yes. We have a loyal installed base of OpenVMS users and we will	 >continued >> > ton >> > >>M >> I've been given the same promises about TOPS-20, Alpha/NT and Alpha itselfe >byi* >> DEC/Compaq. Turned out to be worthless. >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:43:39 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergeru+ Message-ID: <3BCEB252.28CC1AA@videotron.ca>e   Alan Greig wrote: F > Carly tells us she has been talking to analysts and explaining theirF > strategy. *If* Carly told the Aberdeen Group that she does not see aH > future for VMS then the Aberdeen Group would not be at all confused inG > suggesting that this be made public as soon as possible once HP takesb* > over to get the bad news out of the way.  M Capellas also doesn't see a future in VMS, but he was no so stupid as to kill-F VMS outright. He knows that if he can sway a certain percentage of VMSJ customers to eventually go to NT, then it is worth maintaining VMS on lifeK support to keep those customers until NT is judged to be good enough. If hetN kills VMS outright, he knows that he will lose all VMS customers who will send% all of their business to competitors.   J Had Carly been planning this Compaq anihilation long before, it could haveK been conceivable to have seen Compaq kill VMS, sending all VMS customers toS/ competitors, most of which may have gone to HP.   M But now that the game has been announced, if either Compaq or HP announce therL death of VMS, they are ensured that customers will go to IBM, SUN or Dell or even NCR/Futjitsu/others.p  N So, just because Carly doesn't see a future for VMS doesn't mean that she willF kill VMS. It does mean a status quo for VMS: no marketing, and it will continue to be ignored.i   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 06:42:39 -0700% From: a.greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergerr< Message-ID: <af3b9b31.0110180542.537c52f@posting.google.com>  ` JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BCEB252.28CC1AA@videotron.ca>...  P > So, just because Carly doesn't see a future for VMS doesn't mean that she willH > kill VMS. It does mean a status quo for VMS: no marketing, and it will > continue to be ignored.t  E All true but the advice from the Aberdeen Group is not that HP shouldkF immediately kill VMS. It is that HP should terminate the port to IA64.C That way VMS could continue on active development for, say, anotheroD five years or more but Alpha only. If Carly intends to kill VMS comeE what may then I maintain that the Aberdeen Group's recommendations do C make sense. If she doesn't then their suggestions are nonsense. I'd:D bet she has already talked to them. That's what she's been doing for the last month after all.f  D And again I will re-iterate that the Aberdeen Group's report appearsB to be the most comprehensive third party analysis filed by Compaq.F Despite suggestions to the contrary the filings are not just a generalE collection of all analysis since the proposed merger was announced asnF I've now ploughed through most of it. The vast majority of the filingsC are Compaq/HP internal Q+As and/or speeches by Carly and Curly. TheoE only VMS commitment comes in a statement from Compaq and that will bem' worthless once Compaq no longer exists.t  A If the Aberdeen Group report is full of crap then why have CompaqdE bothered drawing attention to it? I hope Compaq/HP did not commissionr it.o -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 09:03:40 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergerg3 Message-ID: <3rO3MM3sjs09@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  d In article <af3b9b31.0110180542.537c52f@posting.google.com>, a.greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes:b > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BCEB252.28CC1AA@videotron.ca>... > Q >> So, just because Carly doesn't see a future for VMS doesn't mean that she willdI >> kill VMS. It does mean a status quo for VMS: no marketing, and it wille >> continue to be ignored. > G > All true but the advice from the Aberdeen Group is not that HP shouldcH > immediately kill VMS. It is that HP should terminate the port to IA64.E > That way VMS could continue on active development for, say, another F > five years or more but Alpha only. If Carly intends to kill VMS comeG > what may then I maintain that the Aberdeen Group's recommendations donE > make sense. If she doesn't then their suggestions are nonsense. I'dtF > bet she has already talked to them. That's what she's been doing for > the last month after all.l > F > And again I will re-iterate that the Aberdeen Group's report appearsD > to be the most comprehensive third party analysis filed by Compaq.H > Despite suggestions to the contrary the filings are not just a generalG > collection of all analysis since the proposed merger was announced aslH > I've now ploughed through most of it. The vast majority of the filingsE > are Compaq/HP internal Q+As and/or speeches by Carly and Curly. The G > only VMS commitment comes in a statement from Compaq and that will beu) > worthless once Compaq no longer exists.  > C > If the Aberdeen Group report is full of crap then why have CompaqeG > bothered drawing attention to it? I hope Compaq/HP did not commissionn > it.s  @ 	They (Compaq + HP) are in a classic catch-22.  If they pull the? 	plug on the port VMS->Itanium it will be a rush for the exits. > 	From experience they know the landing zone won't be Compaq/HP 	platforms/hardware.  @ 	Any other time, they might risk it.  But at this stage, marginsB 	are declining everywhere.  EMC likes to highlight bad earnings onG 	Sept. 11th event.  But their quarter-over-quarter revs went from $2.3 l 	billion to $1.2 billion:<  5 http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20011017S0016a  @ 	Certainly can't blame that on a single event... and they don't.  ? 	The small problem for VMS is of course it makes money.  In ther= 	face of declining margins in many segments, it wouldn't makeC: 	sense to throw significant decline in the VMS business byD 	cancelling its port to IA64 and spiralling those >> profits << into= 	the ground.  Somebody must think the cancel of the IA64 portc? 	of VMS makes sense.  I often agree with analysts, but that onen? 	sounds pretty silly no matter which angle you look at it from.u   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 09:12:35 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger 3 Message-ID: <nTZdldtrOkf1@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  d In article <af3b9b31.0110180542.537c52f@posting.google.com>, a.greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes:  C > If the Aberdeen Group report is full of crap then why have Compaq,# > bothered drawing attention to it?a  4 Because the bottom line was favorable to the merger.  , That is not something easy for them to find.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:43:47 +0200w: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0110181634070.12399-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  & On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Alan Greig wrote:  > >+Bob Ceculski wrote:AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM ... THESE PEOPLE,$ >+> CEOS AND GROUPS ARE INFILTRATINGC >+> MICROSOFTS COMPETITION AND DESTROYING THEIR SUPERIOR TECHNOLOGYa [...]y= >+And that is the amazing thing. The article I have quoted ist' >+ from an SEC filing by Compaq itself!r  9  Really. But the "Practice Area" may be important: 'Linuxo6 and Unix' and 'Windows' analyst estimates the value of5 VMS... really, probably with the point "I don't thinks. why anyone uses anything that I don't know" :>3  He/she *knows* that VMS is a source of money, evens1 if most of the money was sometime throwed out to t AlphaWindows... :[    Regards - Gotfryd   -- pE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEk. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:31:03 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger)8 Message-ID: <gcststknmcbc1q4be5cgubo6q8g3g0i72s@4ax.com>  D On 18 Oct 2001 09:03:40 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:    @ >	The small problem for VMS is of course it makes money.  In the> >	face of declining margins in many segments, it wouldn't make; >	sense to throw significant decline in the VMS business by8E >	cancelling its port to IA64 and spiralling those >> profits << into:> >	the ground.  Somebody must think the cancel of the IA64 port@ >	of VMS makes sense.  I often agree with analysts, but that one@ >	sounds pretty silly no matter which angle you look at it from.  E I know it doesn't make sense but I argue that almost no decision made E by DEC/Compaq in the last ten years makes sense - that;s why they gotlD into so much trouble. Madness. The Aberdeen Group point out that VMSC is profitable and then calculate that HP will lose the user-base inuF time anyway so they might as well get the bad news out of the way now.D Recall that one of the justifications Compaq used for dropping AlphaE was they couldn't keep up with the cost - yet even the Aberdeen GroupsA say that the alpha division (together with NSK) is Compaq's *mostn profitable* division.e  D I have said repeatedly and consistently over the last few years thatD the real problem is that DEC and Compaq (and it seems HP) are run byD complete and utter idiots. I wish they weren't. I think the industryE agrees. Just compare HP and Compaq's stock price (against its 52 weekh@ high) with IBMs and see what the market thinks of IBM managementD versus Carly and Curly. The alternative to them being idiots is thatB they are in the effective pay of Microsoft. Either way - not good.  F Gartner and the Aberdeen Group etc can hardly say point blank that theE management team are clueless but they manage to suggest it quite wellu in my humble opinion.e  F But nobody will stand up at a shareholders meeting and say "Given thatF current management has proved its total incompetence why are you still here?"  F Remember what Carly said when asked why she was so sure the deal wouldC go through: "Because we've burnt our boats". Incredible, absolutelynC incredible. Maybe Bill Gates subjects all his important visitors tod@ some high doses of gamma radiation to the head when they visit.  -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 11:47:35 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergert3 Message-ID: <+TQdsPkNw0V2@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  ` In article <gcststknmcbc1q4be5cgubo6q8g3g0i72s@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F > On 18 Oct 2001 09:03:40 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  > A >>	The small problem for VMS is of course it makes money.  In the ? >>	face of declining margins in many segments, it wouldn't make < >>	sense to throw significant decline in the VMS business byF >>	cancelling its port to IA64 and spiralling those >> profits << into? >>	the ground.  Somebody must think the cancel of the IA64 portHA >>	of VMS makes sense.  I often agree with analysts, but that oneIA >>	sounds pretty silly no matter which angle you look at it from.  > G > I know it doesn't make sense but I argue that almost no decision madeiG > by DEC/Compaq in the last ten years makes sense - that;s why they gotF > into so much trouble.    	Blanket statement.  Not true.  B 	Digital divested themselves of disk drives to Quantum in a timely2 	fashion.  There are tons of other good decisions.  . Madness. The Aberdeen Group point out that VMSE > is profitable and then calculate that HP will lose the user-base in-H > time anyway so they might as well get the bad news out of the way now.  C 	Dumb advice.  No one can afford to take that kind of hit inside ofsB 	an 18 month timeframe.  If the intention is to kill VMS off, theyD 	better kill it off over a 10 year timeframe.  IBM posted surprisingE 	growth in Z series (mainframes) so maybe even some clueless analystsoG 	might understand there is a market for non-NT based Enterprise OSes.  nF 	Might be hard figurin' for them but they will eventually stumble upon 	some facts and get a clue.   ? 	So again... stopping port to IA64 for VMS makes no sense as itcA 	will absolutely arrest VMS sales and force a rapid exit to other8G 	platforms.  Digital learned a sore lesson from the Ultrix->MIPS->Alpha B 	fiasco.  A ditching of VMS->IA64 will make that fiasco look tame.E 	There would be dozens of very large IT departments that would refusesB 	to deal with HP/Compaq if VMS->IA64 goes in the toilet.  Aberdeen@ 	is clueless on that one.  The kid that penned that portion must 	be pretty ingrown.m  F > Recall that one of the justifications Compaq used for dropping AlphaG > was they couldn't keep up with the cost - yet even the Aberdeen GroupcC > say that the alpha division (together with NSK) is Compaq's *mosto > profitable* division.  >   > 	Not sure how that ties into to an VMS->IA64 migration debate.A 	What are you getting at?  (i.e. I am inquiring ... not mocking).e   > H > Remember what Carly said when asked why she was so sure the deal wouldE > go through: "Because we've burnt our boats". Incredible, absolutelynE > incredible. Maybe Bill Gates subjects all his important visitors torB > some high doses of gamma radiation to the head when they visit.  >g  - 	It will go through because it has to.  Okay.t  C 	Idea is of course Win2K follow-ons get Enterprise.  I do know I amuD 	seeing very large applications on NT today.  In a few years insteadA 	of 30 NT boxes to run the app, we see server numbers similar to tE 	Unix/NSK/VMS to run apps and the strategy is that HP/Compaq will be I? 	well positioned.  The problem is that NT wasn't the answer but C 	don't underestimate the Borg.  The Borg can afford to re-write anddE 	re-write NT/2000/2005 until they get it right.  $20 billion in cash   	goes a long ways you know.u   				Robt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:11:50 GMTs3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>f3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergera/ Message-ID: <3BCF0CC9.84C5BFD5@cableinet.co.uk>m   John Vottero wrote:t  eN > They are clearly confused if they think they should dump OpenVMS so they can7 > focus on telling OpenVMS customers how good HP-UX is.  >    E why, its obviously been a very sucessful buisiness for them recently?rF I guess we are hoping that when its HP VMS this will change. I like to dream sometimes.  G Only VMS contract in Bristol so far this month is porting a Fortran app: to hpux.   Nice work, Alan.   -- i Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of 8! my employers or service provider.O   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 11:36:47 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: Re: Quotation for an AlphaServer 300 4/266p* Message-ID: <3bcea2af$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  L In article <9qkmo8$1c4$1@kadath.deep.it>, Cthulhu <noone@nowhere.it> writes:G >How much do you think I can offer for an AlphaServer 300, model 4/266,  >64 MB RAM, 2 x 1GB HDD?I >No monitor, maybe keyboard and mouse (maybe - does it have PS/2 ports?).s >lG >Is it able to run OpenVMS + DECwindow in some working way with only 64o7 >MB RAM, or is it at least exapndable with common DIMM?p   $100 would be my maximum YMMV   -- r< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888a< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 06:50:55 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Scott McNealy has no respect for Alpha'se= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110180550.42063259@posting.google.com>?  z "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<6_qz7.130282$vq.28809903@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>...7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea? > news:TJZy7.772802$NK1.69883572@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  > >l7 > > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message ; > > news:d7791aa1.0110160601.3767a5c4@posting.google.com...o; > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ? >  news:<JeLy7.15958$%B.2037405@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... ; > > > > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei= > > > > news:d7791aa1.0110150531.781567@posting.google.com...  > > > >n > > > > ...u > > > >VM > > > > > why don't you wake up ... after looking at the itanium spec resultsh	 >  anyonepM > > > > > could see itanic was a dud ... intel had to buy alpha to be able to 	 >  have aeN > > > > > "working" 64 bit platform ... alpha will live on with the intel logo > > > > > on it! > > > >hF > > > > There's really no effective way to reply to someone so clearly >  convinced >  ofiL > > > > his misconceptions.  But the vast preponderance of opinion of people	 >  almosthG > > > > certainly far better informed than you are is that Intel has nos >  intentionE > > > > whatsoever of doing anything with the Alpha implementation ors >  instructionK > > > > set, but just wanted its engineers and some design features (and to,% > > > > eliminate it as competition).t > > > >  > > > > - bill > > >tE > > > wrong!  they needed the compilers and some other key pieces ...  > >nN > > No, they needed the compiler *expertise* to build Itanic back-ends (though3 > > the existing front-ends will likely be useful).u > >rD > > > the new itanic has to be all things to all people so some modsE > > > will need to made to vms (port), but i guarantee the new itanict; > > > will be very close to the never to be made ev8 alpha!OG > > > otherwise, intel will never sit in a high end shop ... why do youRG > > > think comps like cerner and the dod are going along with this ...5H > > > because now intel can provide alpha technology cheaper than compaqF > > > which means cheaper boxes ... this is what i have been told fromD > > > someone high up in the vms group ... unless you think they are > > > lying! > > N > > They are lying, and you are gullible.  And while it is possible that IntelK > > may want to incorporate EV8-inspired features like OOO and SMT into themL > > Itanic architecture (which is not at all the same thing as rebadging andN > > shipping EV8 itself), they couldn't ship such a product before 2006 at theK > > earliest - though they might be able to incorporate peripheral featurest >  likeb1 > > EV7's on-chip glue for MP and memory by 2005.s > >e > D > Consistent with what I've heard. Glueless SMP and memory bandwidthK > enhancements should appear in post-Madison IPF chips. Chances are slim to > > none that INTC will jettison IPF for the Alpha architecture.  E if that is true then intel will never be anything more than a client,p	 a backendiE want-a-be ... alpha ev68 and ev7 will serve us well for many years tol come ...D amd hammer will surpass intel chips if intel does not take advantage of alphaB designs which means ibm will rule the corporate world backend, not intel!? itaniums current design (epic) will not perform well in smp anda parallel environments ... ibm knows thisl  5 http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20010701S0001u   taken from above article ...  = IBM officials cite such concerns as one reason the company isPE committed to its PowerPC RISC chip architecture. They also argue that E Itanium, designed to run multiple operating systems, is a jack of allbD trades but master of none. "If you have a team that not only designs? your chip, but also designs your software, you end up with muchbD tighter integration, and that's crucial in markets where performanceA and availability are paramount," says Joel Tendler, IBM's programm* director for development of the RISC chip.  F which is why ibm continues in the risc market ... the high end ... and intels% without alpha will never be high end!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:23:12 +0200 = From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl> " Subject: Re: Socket problem-URGENT5 Message-ID: <3BCE9F80.1CA7FB34@contrastmediagroep.nl>t   mergoktas@erdemir.com.tr wrote:e  N > When I have above picture from UCX, I still able to receive data from client > side, / > but ofcourse can not send data to the client.r  F Why do you think this is a UCX problem? Maybe the client stops reading from the socket.   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:52:38 +0100m8 From: "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk>) Subject: TCPIP HTTP EXITING BEFORE SOCKET R Message-ID: <FFDBA0B630B5D211954E0008C70D240D05B6CAAC@elsoxfs12304.elsevier.co.uk>   Hi, we are running i7 DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0As6 on a AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB running OpenVMS V7.2-1  g The Http service is enableda TCPIP> sho serv http/fus
 Service: HTTPH State: Enabled' Port: 80 Protocol: TCP Address: 0.0.0.0 , Inactivity: 5 User_name: HTTPD Process: HTTP Limit: 1 Active: 0 Peak: 1 File: TCPIP$SERVICEa
 Flags: Listens Socket Opts: Rcheck Scheck Receive: 0 Send: 0
 Log Opts:  Log file:      not defined Security Reject msg: not definedC Accept host: 0.0.0.0 Accept netw: 0.0.0.0 TCPIP> sho dev/service=http/fu/ Device_socket: bg2696 Type: STREAM LOCAL REMOTEM
 Port: 80 0 Host: 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0e Service: HTTP   e RECEIVE SEND Queued I/O 0 0 Q0LEN 0 Socket buffer bytes 0 0s& QLEN 0 Socket buffer quota 32768 32768 QLIMIT 5 Total buffer alloc 0 0r( TIMEO 0 Total buffer limit 262144 262144 ERROR 0 Buffer or I/O waits 0 0S! OOBMARK 0 Buffer or I/O drops 0 0- I/O completed 78 0 Bytes transferred 0 0n    Options: ACCEPT REUSEADR State: PRIVn RCV Buff: None SND Buff: None   6 We cannot access the website, we could before a reboot; The nameserver resolves fine we are getting console messagem  y$ Message from user INTERnet on COUGAR3 INTERnet ACP detected HTTP exiting before 'socket'    n  Any suggestions are very welcome  y Regardsl Paul Paul Hansford  d VMS System Manager         Elsevier Science Ltd     ------------------------------   Date: 18 Oct 2001 17:02:59 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)@ Subject: TELNET sessions not closed, limit exceeded, how to fix?) Message-ID: <9qn203$f0d$1@hecate.umd.edu>-  O Hello, I have a problem with incoming telnet on my system.  I'm running OpenVMSlH V7.1-2, TCP/IP V5.0A - ECO 3, on a Digital Personal Workstation (Alpha).  O The problem is that, under some circumstances, when a user who is logged in viaoL telnet logs out or is disconnected, the count of the number of active telnetJ sessions does *not* get decremented.  The count I refer to is shown by theN command TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL .  The Active and Peak values sometimesM decrease, as they should, or stay the same.  In the latter case this'll causeeM them to just keep increasing until the limit of 50 is reached and we can't dos any more work.    I Also, the command TCPIP SHOW DEVICE only shows 16 BG devices, but the DCL1O command SHOW DEVICE BG shows 34 devices (not counting the template device BG0),i0 so there are 18 bogus BG devices hanging around.  I My system used to not do this.  A week ago (Oct 10) I installed the patchSO TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113, which is ECO 3; that's the only change I made.  The problem N I describe above showed up Oct 16 or 17.  I was able to continue doing work byO doing a STOP/NET and a START/NET, which reset the count and cleared out all then bogus BG devices.  s  L Has anyone else seen this problem?  If so, what is the fix, if any?  I can'tK imagine this being left around to fester, so there must be a fix somewhere.o/ Any other suggestions as temporary workarounds?m   Here's some sample output:    $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL  - Service: TELNET=-                            State:     Enabled=G Port:               23     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0MK Inactivity:          1     User_name: not defined     Process:  not defined.C Limit:              50     Active:     13             Peak:      13=    File:         not defined- Flags:        Listen Rtty   1% Socket Opts:  Keepalive Rcheck Scheckr0  Receive:         3000     Send:            3000  C7 Log Opts:     Actv Dactv Conn Error Logi Logo Mdfy Rjctg  File:        not definedc  0 Security  Reject msg:  not definedr  Accept host: 0.0.0.0t  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0b   $ TCPIP SHOW DEVICEe=                             Port                       Remotee< Device_socket  Type    Local  Remote  Service           Host  C   bg6119      STREAM      23   49152  TELNET           129.2.163.75tC   bg6134      STREAM      23   49153  TELNET           129.2.163.75eC   bg6226      STREAM      23   49152  TELNET           129.2.162.77sC   bg6325      STREAM      80    1507                   193.232.6.18aC   bg6327      STREAM      80    1508                   193.232.6.18 C   bg6328      STREAM      80    1509                   193.232.6.18tC   bg6329      STREAM      80    1510                   193.232.6.18oC   bg6331      STREAM      80    2857                   65.199.99.92tC   bg6335      STREAM      80    2859                   65.199.99.92o>   bg6685      STREAM      79       0  FINGER           0.0.0.0>   bg6686      STREAM     512       0  REXEC            0.0.0.0>   bg6687      STREAM     513       0  RLOGIN           0.0.0.0>   bg6688      STREAM     514       0  RSH              0.0.0.0>   bg6689      STREAM      25       0  SMTP             0.0.0.0>   bg6690      STREAM      23       0  TELNET           0.0.0.0>   bg6696      DGRAM      570       0                   0.0.0.0>   bg6699      DGRAM      123       0  NTP              0.0.0.0>   bg6700      DGRAM      123       0  NTP              0.0.0.0>   bg6701      DGRAM      123       0  NTP              0.0.0.0>   bg6703      STREAM      80       0                   0.0.0.0>   bg6708      STREAM    6000       0                   0.0.0.0   $ SHOW DEVICE BG  . Device                  Device           Error.  Name                   Status           Count. BG0:                    Mounted              0. BG3165:                 Mounted              0. BG6119:                 Mounted              0. BG6134:                 Mounted              0. BG6226:                 Mounted              0. BG6331:                 Mounted              0. BG6335:                 Mounted              0. BG6336:                 Mounted              0. BG6338:                 Mounted              0. BG6342:                 Mounted              0. BG6683:                 Mounted              0. BG6685:                 Mounted              0. BG6686:                 Mounted              0. BG6687:                 Mounted              0. BG6688:                 Mounted              0. BG6689:                 Mounted              0. BG6690:                 Mounted              0. BG6696:                 Mounted              0. BG6697:                 Mounted              0. BG6699:                 Mounted              0. BG6700:                 Mounted              0. BG6701:                 Mounted              0. BG6702:                 Mounted              0. BG6703:                 Mounted              0. BG6707:                 Mounted              0. BG6708:                 Mounted              0. BG6710:                 Mounted              0. BG6949:                 Mounted              0. BG7039:                 Mounted              0. BG7043:                 Mounted              0. BG7663:                 Mounted              0. BG7707:                 Mounted              0. BG8858:                 Mounted              0. BG9328:                 Mounted              0. BG9792:                 Mounted              0. BG9807:                 Mounted              0. BG9817:                 Mounted              0. BG9952:                 Mounted              0  O Note how there are BG devices listed by DCL without a corresponding entry shown F by TCPIP SHOW DEV.  As an example of a bogus one, here a SHOW DEV/FULL  P Device BG9952:, device type unknown, is online, mounted, record-oriented device,#     network device, mailbox device.   O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  1hO     Owner process   "TCPIP$INET_ACP"    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        00002ADD    Dev Prot    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLgO     Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 256s  J The process TCPIP$INET_ACP has a whole slew of BG devices allocated to it.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edue   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:27:07 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>D Subject: Re: TELNET sessions not closed, limit exceeded, how to fix?@ Message-ID: <20011018172707.88990.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  ) I had this same problem a few months ago.u1 The CSC gave me a TCPIP patch. You should contact  Compaq.   ) My operating system is OpenVMS 7.2 and myK TCPIP Services is 5.0A - ECO 3  ' I applied the TCPIP$INETACP.EXE and =20e" TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE and SOLVED !!!!     Regardsr   FC=20t/ --- Lawrence Bleau <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote: 4 > Hello, I have a problem with incoming telnet on my > system.  I'm running OpenVMS5 > V7.1-2, TCP/IP V5.0A - ECO 3, on a Digital Personals > Workstation (Alpha). >=205 > The problem is that, under some circumstances, wheno > a user who is logged in vian6 > telnet logs out or is disconnected, the count of the > number of active telnett3 > sessions does *not* get decremented.  The count Ie > refer to is shown by the6 > command TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL .  The Active > and Peak values sometimest5 > decrease, as they should, or stay the same.  In theM > latter case this'll causey4 > them to just keep increasing until the limit of 50 > is reached and we can't do > any more work. =20 >=206 > Also, the command TCPIP SHOW DEVICE only shows 16 BG > devices, but the DCL. > command SHOW DEVICE BG shows 34 devices (not$ > counting the template device BG0),2 > so there are 18 bogus BG devices hanging around. >=205 > My system used to not do this.  A week ago (Oct 10)b > I installed the patchR5 > TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113, which is ECO 3; that's the only  > change I made.  The problem.6 > I describe above showed up Oct 16 or 17.  I was able > to continue doing work byl3 > doing a STOP/NET and a START/NET, which reset theS > count and cleared out all the  > bogus BG devices. =20b >=204 > Has anyone else seen this problem?  If so, what is > the fix, if any?  I can'tP4 > imagine this being left around to fester, so there > must be a fix somewhere.1 > Any other suggestions as temporary workarounds?u >=20 > Here's some sample output: >=20" > $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL > =20e > Service: TELNET / >                            State:     Enablede8 > Port:               23     Protocol:  TCP          =20 >  Address:  0.0.0.08 > Inactivity:          1     User_name: not defined  =20 >  Process:  not defined8 > Limit:              50     Active:     13          =20 >  Peak:      13 > =20m > File:         not definedu > Flags:        Listen Rtty: > =20m' > Socket Opts:  Keepalive Rcheck ScheckS2 >  Receive:         3000     Send:            3000 > =20i4 > Log Opts:     Actv Dactv Conn Error Logi Logo Mdfy > Rjct >  File:        not definedO > =20+
 > Security >  Reject msg:  not defined6 >  Accept host: 0.0.0.0l >  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0o >=20 > $ TCPIP SHOW DEVICEm8 >                             Port                   =20
 >   Remote8 > Device_socket  Type    Local  Remote  Service      =20	 >    Host- >=208 >   bg6119      STREAM      23   49152  TELNET       =20 >   129.2.163.758 >   bg6134      STREAM      23   49153  TELNET       =20 >   129.2.163.758 >   bg6226      STREAM      23   49152  TELNET       =20 >   129.2.162.778 >   bg6325      STREAM      80    1507               =20 >   193.232.6.188 >   bg6327      STREAM      80    1508               =20 >   193.232.6.188 >   bg6328      STREAM      80    1509               =20 >   193.232.6.188 >   bg6329      STREAM      80    1510               =20 >   193.232.6.188 >   bg6331      STREAM      80    2857               =20 >   65.199.99.928 >   bg6335      STREAM      80    2859               =20 >   65.199.99.928 >   bg6685      STREAM      79       0  FINGER       =20 >   0.0.0.0 8 >   bg6686      STREAM     512       0  REXEC        =20 >   0.0.0.0%8 >   bg6687      STREAM     513       0  RLOGIN       =20 >   0.0.0.0n8 >   bg6688      STREAM     514       0  RSH          =20 >   0.0.0.068 >   bg6689      STREAM      25       0  SMTP         =20 >   0.0.0.0h8 >   bg6690      STREAM      23       0  TELNET       =20 >   0.0.0.0a8 >   bg6696      DGRAM      570       0               =20 >   0.0.0.0 8 >   bg6699      DGRAM      123       0  NTP          =20 >   0.0.0.0h8 >   bg6700      DGRAM      123       0  NTP          =20 >   0.0.0.0 8 >   bg6701      DGRAM      123       0  NTP          =20 >   0.0.0.0i8 >   bg6703      STREAM      80       0               =20 >   0.0.0.0f8 >   bg6708      STREAM    6000       0               =20 >   0.0.0.0h >=20 > $ SHOW DEVICE BG >=200 > Device                  Device           Error0 >  Name                   Status           Count0 > BG0:                    Mounted              00 > BG3165:                 Mounted              00 > BG6119:                 Mounted              00 > BG6134:                 Mounted              00 > BG6226:                 Mounted              00 > BG6331:                 Mounted              00 > BG6335:                 Mounted              00 > BG6336:                 Mounted              00 > BG6338:                 Mounted              00 > BG6342:                 Mounted              00 > BG6683:                 Mounted              00 > BG6685:                 Mounted              00 > BG6686:                 Mounted              00 > BG6687:                 Mounted              00 > BG6688:                 Mounted              00 > BG6689:                 Mounted              00 > BG6690:                 Mounted              00 > BG6696:                 Mounted              00 > BG6697:                 Mounted              00 > BG6699:                 Mounted              00 > BG6700:                 Mounted              00 > BG6701:                 Mounted              00 > BG6702:                 Mounted              00 > BG6703:                 Mounted              00 > BG6707:                 Mounted              00 > BG6708:                 Mounted              00 > BG6710:                 Mounted              00 > BG6949:                 Mounted              00 > BG7039:                 Mounted              00 > BG7043:                 Mounted              00 > BG7663:                 Mounted              00 > BG7707:                 Mounted              00 > BG8858:                 Mounted              00 > BG9328:                 Mounted              00 > BG9792:                 Mounted              00 > BG9807:                 Mounted              00 > BG9817:                 Mounted              00 > BG9952:                 Mounted              0 >=205 > Note how there are BG devices listed by DCL without! > a corresponding entry shown)3 > by TCPIP SHOW DEV.  As an example of a bogus one,m > here a SHOW DEV/FULL >=201 > Device BG9952:, device type unknown, is online,u" > mounted, record-oriented device,% >     network device, mailbox device.  >=204 >     Error count                    0    Operations > completed                  18 >     Owner process   "TCPIP$INET_ACP"    Owner UIC  =20 >                   [SYSTEM]7 >     Owner process ID        00002ADD    Dev Prot  =20  > S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLr1 >     Reference count                1    Defaulto! > buffer size                 256e >=203 > The process TCPIP$INET_ACP has a whole slew of BGT > devices allocated to it. >=20 > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.eduu     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D0 F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilR fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dw  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:48:52 GMTa3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>-" Subject: Re: user authentification/ Message-ID: <3BCEF956.FF8B899F@cableinet.co.uk>P   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 5 > Hoff Hoffman (hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam) wrote:s8 > > martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:8 > > :Hoff Hoffman (hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam) wrote:; > > :> Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> writes:r2 > > :> :Depending on the language you plan to use:K > > :> :1  call SYS$HASH_PASSWORD with the users parameters and the enteredd > > :> :passwordD > > :> :2  get the quadword password field from the SYSUAF ($GETUAI), > > :> :3  compare the two quadword results. > > :>. > > :>   The crackers will love this approach. > > :nJ > > :The only problem they'll have is that you need privileges for step 2. > > J > >   Actually not, depending on exactly what you are up to.  You *really*D > >   need to be careful here, lest you expose more than you expect. > H > Without privileges, one account can be hacked (I agree that is one tooK > many) *if* the setup is "one UIC .eq. one user". With GRPPRV, one group'sbJ > accounts. You need SYSPRV or BYPASS to access all SYSUAF accounts. Did I > miss anything?  C if the account has group id less than MAXSYSGRP (? spelling) systeme	 parameter F then the account has automatic SYSPRV. I guess you covered that really but itsn worth remembering.   regardsd    r -- e Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of G! my employers or service provider.i   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 07:35:35 -0700& From: a08@black1.org.uk (Andrew Black)* Subject: Utility to list Universal Symbols= Message-ID: <8b43ad65.0110180635.77815340@posting.google.com>   E I have the recollection that there is a utility to list the universalc@ symbols exported by a shareable image but I can't track it down.  D I am trying to get a warm feeling that a new version of the image isC compatable with the existing on (and hence I can used images linkedP against the old one).p   Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:50:29 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e. Subject: Re: Utility to list Universal Symbols0 Message-ID: <00A03B53.8C3D4D9D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <8b43ad65.0110180635.77815340@posting.google.com>, a08@black1.org.uk (Andrew Black) writes:F >I have the recollection that there is a utility to list the universalA >symbols exported by a shareable image but I can't track it down.e >rE >I am trying to get a warm feeling that a new version of the image isuD >compatable with the existing on (and hence I can used images linked >against the old one). >t >Thanks1   $ ANALYZE/IMAGEh   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            CJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:22:43 -0700l* From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: Utility to list Universal Symbols) Message-ID: <3BCF01D3.30A66C52@yahoo.com>r  
 How about:  @ $ pipe anal/image sys$share:sortshr | search sys$input "symbol:"   Jimr   Andrew Black wrote:m  G > I have the recollection that there is a utility to list the universal B > symbols exported by a shareable image but I can't track it down. > F > I am trying to get a warm feeling that a new version of the image isE > compatable with the existing on (and hence I can used images linked  > against the old one).  >  > Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 11:00:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: RE: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon!3 Message-ID: <5ILoCcc5EahQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <d7791aa1.0110180701.4a1b3757@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:B > ERICOM, THE COMPANY THAT SUPPORTS POWERTERM FOR PATHWORKS IS NOW
 > PORTING THEeG > FOLLOWING PRODUCTS THAT WILL ALLOW TRADITIONAL VMS VT CELL BASED APPS9 > TO BEEE > RUN AS A SESSION IN A WINDOWS BROWSER PLUS WILL BE ABLE TO ADD HTMLMH > FUNCTIONALITY IN A SIDE OR TOP BAR ... AND IT SUPPORTS BOTH 80 AND 132 > COLUMNB > DISPLAYS ... ALSO THE HTTP VT SESSION WILL BE ABLE TO BE SECURED
 > EITHER WITH E > SSHV2 OR HTTPS (SSL) ... ALSO WILL HAVE PEEK & SPY CAPABILITIES AND 	 > BROWSER2@ > MANAGEMENT TO SET UP USER AND SESSION SECURITY ... WOW, WHAT A
 > PRODUCT!  3 But how many people want a VT05 terminal emulator ?1   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:19:25 GMT9* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net>D Subject: Re: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon!@ Message-ID: <hiDz7.52763$%B.4364996@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:5ILoCcc5EahQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...E? > In article <d7791aa1.0110180701.4a1b3757@posting.google.com>,M-    bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:g/ > > ERICOM, THE COMPANY THAT SUPPORTS POWERTERM . > > FOR PATHWORKS IS NOW PORTING THE FOLLOWING > > PRODUCTS   [snip]  5 > But how many people want a VT05 terminal emulator ?0  @ Was that the last terminal from DEC that didn't have lowercase ?   -Andy-   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 08:01:48 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: VMS CELL BASED SESSIONS W/HTML ON BROWSERS COMMING SOON!0= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0110180701.4a1b3757@posting.google.com>   @ ERICOM, THE COMPANY THAT SUPPORTS POWERTERM FOR PATHWORKS IS NOW PORTING THE E FOLLOWING PRODUCTS THAT WILL ALLOW TRADITIONAL VMS VT CELL BASED APPS0 TO BE9C RUN AS A SESSION IN A WINDOWS BROWSER PLUS WILL BE ABLE TO ADD HTMLnF FUNCTIONALITY IN A SIDE OR TOP BAR ... AND IT SUPPORTS BOTH 80 AND 132 COLUMN@ DISPLAYS ... ALSO THE HTTP VT SESSION WILL BE ABLE TO BE SECURED EITHER WITH C SSHV2 OR HTTPS (SSL) ... ALSO WILL HAVE PEEK & SPY CAPABILITIES AND  BROWSERn> MANAGEMENT TO SET UP USER AND SESSION SECURITY ... WOW, WHAT A PRODUCT!E THIS WILL GIVE VMS A WHOLE NEW LIFE AS THE SALES REP SAID THEY HAVE Ae LOT OF: INTEREST BUILDING ... CALL TRACEY CILIBERTI (888) 769-7876 W/QUESTIONS!   http://www.ericom.com/ptj.aspG  ( http://www.ericom.com/host_publisher.asp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:13:26 GMT * From: Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>J Subject: VMS server file sharing with W2K clients: NFS and Pathworks grief1 Message-ID: <slrn9su3dl.m40.ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>7   Hi,   A We're looking for file sharing solutions in an evolving VMS + W2K  network.  > We have implemented for some time Pathworks V5.0F ECO 2 with aH Compaq-supplied patch that enables it to work with earlier W2K systems. D However, Service Pack 2 or higher for W2K (which presumably means XPG too) breaks authentication. This is a known problem and the recommended , fix is apparently to upgrade to Pathworks 7.  H Well, licensing for Pathworks 7 would be rather costly, so we're lookingE for a reliable low-cost solution to offer file shares from VMS to W2K  clients.  Any suggestions?  E We initially thought perhaps we could use NFS and tried VMS 7.2-1 and D TCP/IP 5.1 ECO 2 with all the latest patches as our NFS server.  But4 we've had nothing but grief trying to get it to fly.  D For the client side, we're using Windows Services for UNIX 2.0 whichD includes Microsoft NFS Gateway.  We have been unable to even connectA using that product and TCP/IP Services 5.1.  We have also tried aSG variety of other NFS clients on W2K all with similar results, includingr) Hummingbird (tried both NFSv2 and NFSv3).   H Just as a point of reference, we tried a Linux client to ensure that theD VMS NFS server was functional, and found that it could connect as anB anonymous NFSv2 user without any trouble.  (Ideally, we would likeE username mappings, but are starting out simple, testing with just the  anonymous user.)  C Compaq tells us that they use Hummingbird NFS clients with the samePH versions of VMS and TCP/IP as we are trying without any trouble and haveE concluded that it "must be a Windows problem" and have referred us toaF Microsoft.  My Windows technical people here tell me that getting helpC out of Microsoft isn't going to be easy or cheap.  My hunch is thatm5 they'll end up pointing their fingers back at Compaq.c  G So where do we go from here?  Has anyone implemented a VMS server + W2KaF client file sharing solution successfully that doesn't require forkingG out hefty license fees for a Pathworks upgrade?  Are there alternativese we have overlooked?I  
 Ben ArmstrongAD p.s. Yes, I know there is a Samba for VMS.  But I understand that it?      has its own authentication issues with W2K.  Not that thislG      entirely rules it out for our purposes, but we're concerned, giventC      how much effort we've put into NFS so far with no success yet,3C      about switching ships mid-channel, how much time it will take, G      and compounded with that, how much functionality we'd have to give B      up (that last one a moot point if it turns out to be the only      viable solution ;)s --  G       Ben Armstrong                -.       Medianet Development Group,nE       BArmstrong@dymaxion.ca         `-.    Dymaxion Research LimitediH       <URL: http://www.dymaxion.ca/>    `-  Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:32:06 -0400s- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> N Subject: Re: VMS server file sharing with W2K clients: NFS and Pathworks grief, Message-ID: <3BCF1216.E9FAB854@peoplepc.com>   Ben Armstrong wrote: >  > Hi,i > C > We're looking for file sharing solutions in an evolving VMS + W2Ks
 > network.  L Try Samba (www.samba.org)  There is a port for VMS (may be back a rev or 2).  K We are currently using Samba On Tru64 and Win2k systems can connect with nocN problem (or additional apps installed on the Win2K boxes).  Actually Win2k and5 NT seem to work better than Win98 in our environment.o  ' Other here are also using Samba on VMS.v   -- 2  
 Jack Patteeuwn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:32:03 +0100 + From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com>o3 Subject: Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentications& Message-ID: <3bcf0f79$1@pull.gecm.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:ib1wO2Mp8jg7@eisner.encompasserve.org... 6 > In article <3bcd2ee0$1@pull.gecm.com>, "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> writes:  >=F > > It seems very suspicious to me that upto 15 works and greater thanD > > doesn't, as a count of 15 fits into an unsigned byte and greater than > > needs at least a word. >   > Buy one of the newer machines,5 > where a count of 127 fits into an unsigned byte :-)t  G It's not a newer machine I need, but a newer brain!!  I was thinking of  a nibble(?) half a byte.  D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Group  Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:20:10 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com Subject: Re: VTEST on Alphac/ Message-ID: <00256AE9.004EC178.00@quegw01.btyp>E  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza     Hi,4  P We use a product called VTEST [on Vax and Alpha] and if it's the same product isO produced by Cyrano [http://www.cyrano.com] and I think is now just called TEST.    Cheers   Steve Spires        @ "Paul Dennis" <comedyox@earthlink.not> on 10/18/2001 12:10:32 AM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) M From:      "Paul Dennis" <comedyox@earthlink.not>, 18 October 2001, 0:10 a.m.g   VTEST on Alpha         Hey all,  K We're using a DTM type product called VTEST on our VAXes.  We're porting to K Alpha but we can't get hold of the original proprietor of the s/w to see if  it's available..  J Has anyone here (a) used it (b) know if a version exists for Alpha and (c)" know how/where it can be acquired?   TIA, pd.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:49:41 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)P Subject: Re: VTEST on Alpha 0 Message-ID: <00A03B53.6F8D0FDF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <00256AE9.004EC178.00@quegw01.btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writes:M >Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  >g >0 >Hi, >AQ >We use a product called VTEST [on Vax and Alpha] and if it's the same product is P >produced by Cyrano [http://www.cyrano.com] and I think is now just called TEST. >  >Cheers0 > 
 >Steve Spires   H Cyrano had been marketting a product for feigning the VMS time calls forG Y2K testing.  I checked out a demo and it was sorely lacking and poorly G implemented.  If they're responsible for VTEST, I'd reconsider its use.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbeso   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:34:03 +0200G7 From: Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> $ Subject: Re: writing to shared files5 Message-ID: <3BCE77DB.CE5D4771@EDV-Berater-Online.de>6   Larry Kilgallen schrieb: > q > In article <3BCE073F.10D45E12@EDV-Berater-Online.de>, Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> writes:G > > Larry Kilgallen schrieb: > >>t > >> In article <3BCDE4F9.915C6975@EDV-Berater-Online.de>, Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> writes:O > >> > So I will have to call sys$flush after every write - and there is no way 1 > >> > to tell RMS once to save all data on disk?  > >>D > >> Presumably you are concerned about the effort the computer mustB > >> make to make two calls, rather than the effort the programmer! > >> must make to code two calls.  > >oF > > I am not concerned about the the two calls the AXP and VMS have to > > handle. L > > However, if there are a lot of WRITE statements in the program I have toI > > code a lot of calls to SYS$FLUSH and the probability to forget one is 	 > > high.n > D > If there is no way to force this through RMS setting (and I am notD > convinced on that), the proper software engineering approach wouldA > be to remove _all_ WRITE statements and replace them with calls H > to a new subroutine that does a WRITE followed by a call to SYS$FLUSH.  B I agree - and in this case we do so. However, if you need a lot ofG different FORMAT statements this will take you to the FAO routine which  a not very handy.n   Lothar Geyer   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:35:46 +0200e7 From: Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> $ Subject: Re: writing to shared files5 Message-ID: <3BCE7842.A7EF8685@EDV-Berater-Online.de>=   Joe schrieb: > v > Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> wrote in message news:<3BCE073F.10D45E12@EDV-Berater-Online.de>... > > Larry Kilgallen schrieb: > > > u > > > In article <3BCDE4F9.915C6975@EDV-Berater-Online.de>, Lothar Geyer <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> writes: P > > > > So I will have to call sys$flush after every write - and there is no way2 > > > > to tell RMS once to save all data on disk? > > >1E > > > Presumably you are concerned about the effort the computer mustCC > > > make to make two calls, rather than the effort the programmer0" > > > must make to code two calls. > >aF > > I am not concerned about the the two calls the AXP and VMS have to > > handle. L > > However, if there are a lot of WRITE statements in the program I have toI > > code a lot of calls to SYS$FLUSH and the probability to forget one is 	 > > high.i > C > Depending on the needs of the application I suppose one could not=F > worry about calling sys$flush after each write. Rather one could setB > up a timer to expire at regular intervals (sys$setimr). The sole@ > purpose of this timer request would be to then call sys$flush. >  > Joe-  C I think that's also the way DCL uses. And it's simple to implement.t   Lothar Geyer   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Oct 2001 06:03 CDT3' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t$ Subject: Re: writing to shared files- Message-ID: <18OCT200106032011@gerg.tamu.edu>   4 "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes...K }call sys$flush with the RAB address as a oarameter (you get get it in your< }useropen routine).t } G }Don't have an example at hand. Lookup the documentation, all is there.: }--l }Syltrem  E If you don't want to use a useropen routine, you can use FOR$RAB(lun)  to get the address of the RAB.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:52:15 +0100>4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: writing to shared files8 Message-ID: <5katstk1f60qm1noj7f0phippc5gh5a1rr@4ax.com>  0 On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:35:46 +0200, Lothar Geyer+ <Lothar.Geyer@EDV-Berater-Online.de> wrote:l > 
 >Joe schrieb:  >>D >> Depending on the needs of the application I suppose one could notG >> worry about calling sys$flush after each write. Rather one could setWC >> up a timer to expire at regular intervals (sys$setimr). The solecA >> purpose of this timer request would be to then call sys$flush.h >gD >I think that's also the way DCL uses. And it's simple to implement.  E It is how DCL does it - SYS$OUTPUT is a process-permanent file so the " RAB is always available and valid.  D You mentioned USEROPEN, and this would be a good place to set up theF regular timer.  Pass the RAB address to $SETIMR as the timer-id and it; will be passed on to the AST routine as the (only) argument7F (alternatively, you can either store the RAB in common, or use for$rabF if you have the lun).  Take care if the package uses timers elsewhere,H as there might be a careless call to $CANTIM which can cancel all timers5 all too easily (a horrible flaw in the design, imho).      	John  --  
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Oct 2001 17:12:40 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: [MOZILLA] Applications ?-* Message-ID: <3bcef168$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  G In NETSCAPE V3 there have been two different tabs called "Applications".G (with TELNET, TN3270, RLOGIN, ...) and "Helpers" (MIME and file types).L  M In MOZILLA there is in "Preferences" a menu "Navigator" "Helper Applications"rL which only seem to do MIME and file types (and even that still not perfect).  K I may be blind or miss something obvious, but for me it seems, that MOZILLA M doesn't offer a way to use telnet://aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd/ or rlogin://ee.ff.gg.hh/g URLs.e   Any comments ?   -- e< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888n< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.580 ************************