1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 22 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 587       Contents: Re: Changing File Attributes Re: Changing File Attributes Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged * Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger7 Re: SEDT problems on RedHat 7.1 (was Re: EDT for Linux) 7 Re: SEDT problems on RedHat 7.1 (was Re: EDT for Linux)  Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Strictly 4 Men Models ; Re: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon! ; Re: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon!  Re: VTEST on Alpha Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # RE: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:20:54 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Changing File Attributes ' Message-ID: <3BD39096.D2B70478@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > > > > Record format:      Stream, maximum 79 bytes, longest 79 bytes  > > > > Record attributes:  None > J > > In VMS-land, the Stream record format means that records are separatedL > > by a <CR><LF> pair (a.k.a. "DOS/Windows" format). A "binary" ("stream ofB > > bytes") file is typically Fixed-512 with no record attributes. > O > But a "stream" file in VMS is akin to a fixed format 512 byte one in terms of  > contents.   D Hhmm... well, for that matter, you can say the same of Stream_LF andA Stream_CR. A Fixed-512 file will be read as fixed-length 512 byte H records. A Stream file will be read as variable length records delimitedC by <CR><LF> pairs. A Stream_LF file will be read as variable length D records delimited by <LF>. A Stream_CR file will be read as variable! length records delimited by <CR>.    > STREAMLF     ... a.k.a. "UNIX" files ...    > or STREAMCR    ... a.k.a. "Mac" files ...  1 > would be the ones where VMS would automatically 4 > see an end of record when it get a CR, LF or CRLF   F Oops! Stream_CR = <CR> delimited. Stream_LF = <LF> delimited. Stream = <CR><LF> delimited!   $ > depending on the other attributes.  ? Really? What "other attributes" determine that? I may have been B misinformed by the documentation, by my own experience and by both DUMP/BLOCK and DUMP/RECORD.   O > The other suggestion of re-FTPing the file is good also, making sure that the K > file is transfered in TEXT/ASCII mode. But the poster woudl still have to U > convert it to a variable length record file afterwards. (with convert or with TPU).   * Thought you might find this interesting...  8 (Using Multinet V4.2 Rev A FTP client on OpenVMS V7.1-2)   WWW.DJESYS.COM>dir in*1 <Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list A -rw-rw-r--   1 httpd    site50       1684 Jul  1  2000 index.html  <Transfer complete.  WWW.DJESYS.COM>asc6 Type: Ascii (Non-Print), Structure: File, Mode: Stream( WWW.DJESYS.COM>get index.html index.html@ <Opening ASCII mode data connection for index.html (1684 bytes). <Transfer complete.  WWW.DJESYS.COM>^Z 	 <Goodbye. % DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir/fu index.html;    Directory DKA0:[DDACHTERA]  > INDEX.HTML;2                  File ID:  (7152,3,0)            . Size:            4/4          Owner:    [30,1]" Created:   21-OCT-2001 21:11:20.03& Revised:   21-OCT-2001 21:11:20.47 (1) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  D File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limitG Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 189 bytes 4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None   Total of 1 file, 4/4 blocks.  @ Got identical results using TCPware V5.3(?) on OpenVMS V7.2-1 on fsi.net's core server cluster.  G Don't have a UCX system accessible for comparison without dialling into  work.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 03:21:26 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> % Subject: Re: Changing File Attributes / Message-ID: <tt745mq94rn769@corp.supernews.com>   1 arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> wrote:   : I need to change it from this: ... @ : Record format:      Stream, maximum 79 bytes, longest 79 bytes : Record attributes:  None ... F : To varialble length format ( longest 79 bytes ) and carriage return,* : carriage return as the record attribute. : any hints?  E Easy answer: Edit it and save it.  It will be converted automagically  by TPU.   D Complex, technical answer: Use ANALYSE/FDL on a file with the proper? organization to get the FDL and then use that for CONVERT/FDL=.   F The CONVERT may or may not fix the fundamental difference between UnixE and VMS: CR/LF v. LF to mark EOL.  It might be simpler to use and FTP D client that will do the conversion for you when file type is ASCII.    --   -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:22:49 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged< Message-ID: <howard-58C1F3.15224921102001@enews.newsguy.com>  > In article <CXDA7.140633$vq.32543039@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,6  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  I > Kevin Mitnick, 38, imprisoned for breaking into the computer systems of C > America's leading telephone companies, told The Observer that the B > legislation proposed in the wake of the 11 September attacks was > 'ludicrous'...  L Well, from what I've heard, he may have a point.  That'd give him two, with  the one on the top of his head.  --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:56:58 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged> Message-ID: <eMFA7.140667$vq.32656298@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "Howard S Shubs" <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message6 news:howard-58C1F3.15224921102001@enews.newsguy.com...@ > In article <CXDA7.140633$vq.32543039@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,8 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > K > > Kevin Mitnick, 38, imprisoned for breaking into the computer systems of E > > America's leading telephone companies, told The Observer that the D > > legislation proposed in the wake of the 11 September attacks was > > 'ludicrous'... > H > Well, from what I've heard, he may have a point.  That'd give him two, with! > the one on the top of his head.   L Indeed the cause celebre (why on earth do little weasels like Mitnick attainK celebrity status?) may have a point about the legislation. There are things E that can't be legislated, morality and common sense being among them.   I Since the Govt. probably can read whatever it chooses, I simply make it a D point to have nothing to hide. Not that I do in the first place. ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:00:49 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged< Message-ID: <howard-504CB4.18004821102001@enews.newsguy.com>  > In article <eMFA7.140667$vq.32656298@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,6  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  K > Since the Govt. probably can read whatever it chooses, I simply make it a F > point to have nothing to hide. Not that I do in the first place. ;-}  ? Everyone has something to hide.  You just might not realize it.  --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:47:41 -0400 . From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged. Message-ID: <3BD388CD.C361C1D3@cablespeed.com>   Howard S Shubs wrote:  > @ > In article <eMFA7.140667$vq.32656298@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,8 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > M > > Since the Govt. probably can read whatever it chooses, I simply make it a H > > point to have nothing to hide. Not that I do in the first place. ;-} > A > Everyone has something to hide.  You just might not realize it.  > -- > Howard S ShubsF > "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"  F But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If its on computer,G its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it to yourself, is secure - E one can merely raise the level of effort required to obtain it.  Even H banks are not secure - they simply raise the level of effort required to6 break-in beyond what most people are willing to exert.  F I suspect that with the gov't, the level may be high indeed.  However,C 2048 or 4096 bit RSA encryption of absolute garbage might keep them  guessing ;)  --   --    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2001 22:39:18 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged3 Message-ID: <8khlgCS3xyaS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3BD388CD.C361C1D3@cablespeed.com>, Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:  > Howard S Shubs wrote:  >>  A >> In article <eMFA7.140667$vq.32656298@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, 9 >>  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  >>  N >> > Since the Govt. probably can read whatever it chooses, I simply make it aI >> > point to have nothing to hide. Not that I do in the first place. ;-}  >>  B >> Everyone has something to hide.  You just might not realize it. >> --  >> Howard S Shubs G >> "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"  > H > But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If its on computer,I > its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it to yourself, is secure - G > one can merely raise the level of effort required to obtain it.  Even J > banks are not secure - they simply raise the level of effort required to8 > break-in beyond what most people are willing to exert.  ? Putting something on a computer is not significantly more risky = than putting it into a notebook.  Some things are too complex  to memorize.  A Networking that computer to the outside world, on the other hand,  introduces a lot of risk.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:34:05 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged< Message-ID: <howard-08E714.23340421102001@enews.newsguy.com>  . In article <3BD388CD.C361C1D3@cablespeed.com>,0  Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> wrote:  H > But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If its on computer,I > its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it to yourself, is secure - G > one can merely raise the level of effort required to obtain it.  Even J > banks are not secure - they simply raise the level of effort required to8 > break-in beyond what most people are willing to exert.  H If they want to, they can break anyone.  Keeping it in your mind is not  complete protection. --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:24:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger , Message-ID: <3BD320E0.B8CD79A7@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote: / > "It would be hard to miss the recent surge of , >  excitement in the media regarding Windows' >  XP, Microsoft's broadly enhanced new  >  operating system.  J Really  ? I think it will be rather easy to miss it since the media are so/ focused on Bin Laden and friends as well as the I icing-sugar-in-enveloppes-panic. Bill Gates must really be jealous at Bin D Laden since Bin Laden won the media-attention war and Gates lost it.  I What has surprised me was no visible action by Microsoft to help with the . disasters (donations to those funds etc etc).   L I can just see it: "At  Microsoft, we crash everyday, so to us, the crashing6 of the WTC is just like any other day" :-) :-) :-) :-)  > > It has all the appearances of a recycled Win95 launch to me.  @ Well, Windows 2000 was a dud, and I suspect XP will be the same.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 04:13:27 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger - Message-ID: <877ktou4yg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  C > From a technical standpoint there's nothing insurmountable in the E > IPF Consolidation. Marketing, messaging, and positioning remain the  > gating factors.   @ Plus 'details'. Like no CI for clusters, so if you currently runA 4-5 CI starts to cluster to a bunch of 7000 vaxen, hope you enjoy $ running it all over 10Mb ethernet :(  ? And will VMS still be C2 equivalent as installed? Or will there ? be a special 'secure' option/version? Execute only is also gone & I saw in one of the CETS session bits.  > Plus, there is the minor detail of Intel getting the sucker to7 fly. I'd rather put money on a SMT x86 if I had to bet.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:27:32 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger > Message-ID: <UcGA7.140681$vq.32686887@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:877ktou4yg.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > E > > From a technical standpoint there's nothing insurmountable in the G > > IPF Consolidation. Marketing, messaging, and positioning remain the  > > gating factors.  > B > Plus 'details'. Like no CI for clusters, so if you currently runC > 4-5 CI starts to cluster to a bunch of 7000 vaxen, hope you enjoy & > running it all over 10Mb ethernet :(  L Well, given the age and declining installed base of VAXen, I wouldn't expectL CI support to be at the head of the priority queue. After all, you don't see$ too much Q-Bus support these days...   > A > And will VMS still be C2 equivalent as installed? Or will there A > be a special 'secure' option/version? Execute only is also gone ( > I saw in one of the CETS session bits.  I A good question for OpenVMS Engineering, but according to the Big Dogs in J Spit Brook, there will be no feature deprecation. What's more, the IPF andL Alpha variants of OpenVMS should be functionally identical: no "code freeze"L as with OpenVMS Alpha (the first OpenVMS Alpha release was based on VMS 5.4;K VAX/VMS continued to gain features while the Alpha port was going on, hence @ OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha were not functionally equivalent).   > @ > Plus, there is the minor detail of Intel getting the sucker to9 > fly. I'd rather put money on a SMT x86 if I had to bet.  >   F Something apparently is flying: the Tru64 folks are using Blazer boxes< today; the NSK crowd is porting on a different IPF platform.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:45:31 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger = Message-ID: <%lHA7.376$b47.99470@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   = Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message,8 news:UcGA7.140681$vq.32686887@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >a; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagei) > news:877ktou4yg.fsf@prep.synonet.com...    ...S  B > > Plus, there is the minor detail of Intel getting the sucker to; > > fly. I'd rather put money on a SMT x86 if I had to bet.  > >2 >7H > Something apparently is flying: the Tru64 folks are using Blazer boxes> > today; the NSK crowd is porting on a different IPF platform.  F I think Paul may have been using the phrase in the sense 'get it up toL speed' rather than merely 'get it off the ground'.  SMT x86, single-core andK then dual-core Hammer, dual-core PA-RISC (or was it dual-core MIPS?  eithereJ should be interesting), and EV7 certain hold the promise of blowing ItanicL out of the water for the foreseeable future (i.e., until real fruit is borneJ from the Alpha engineering transplant in the second half of the decade) inE terms of both absolute performance and even more so price/performance J (unless the expected low-end POWER4 fails to materialize and HP and CompaqE try to milk PA-RISC and EV7 despite competition from Hammer, x86, ando low-end POWER4).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:28:49 -0500b1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergere' Message-ID: <3BD38461.B84703E9@fsi.net>t   JF Mezei wrote:b >  > Paul Sture wrote:s1 > > "It would be hard to miss the recent surge of-. > >  excitement in the media regarding Windows) > >  XP, Microsoft's broadly enhanced newj > >  operating system. > L > Really  ? I think it will be rather easy to miss it since the media are so1 > focused on Bin Laden and friends as well as thelK > icing-sugar-in-enveloppes-panic. Bill Gates must really be jealous at Bin0F > Laden since Bin Laden won the media-attention war and Gates lost it.  F Received in my wife's AOL inbox from a co-worker, to the tune of HarryF Belafonte's "Day-o" (animated ala "South Park", with musical and vocal; accompaniment - surprisingly good production, considering):y   PAY-o, PAY-AY-AY-o# Payback come when we drop de bombs!    Hey, Mr. Taliban,h turn over bin Laden,# Payback come when we drop de bombs!a   --   David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:32:44 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergera' Message-ID: <3BD3854C.9207244E@fsi.net>t   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagen) > news:877ktou4yg.fsf@prep.synonet.com... : > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > >oG > > > From a technical standpoint there's nothing insurmountable in the-I > > > IPF Consolidation. Marketing, messaging, and positioning remain thea > > > gating factors.: > >MD > > Plus 'details'. Like no CI for clusters, so if you currently runE > > 4-5 CI starts to cluster to a bunch of 7000 vaxen, hope you enjoyi( > > running it all over 10Mb ethernet :( > N > Well, given the age and declining installed base of VAXen, I wouldn't expectN > CI support to be at the head of the priority queue. After all, you don't see& > too much Q-Bus support these days...  E Then again, the only Q-bus CI card(s) were third-party - nothing fromf DEC for that market.   -- b David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:16:49 GMTu" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger + Message-ID: <3BD3AD22.B3EB34DF@cumulus.com>t   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:P > >e > > Paul Sture wrote:E3 > > > "It would be hard to miss the recent surge of 0 > > >  excitement in the media regarding Windows+ > > >  XP, Microsoft's broadly enhanced new, > > >  operating system. > >eN > > Really  ? I think it will be rather easy to miss it since the media are so3 > > focused on Bin Laden and friends as well as thenM > > icing-sugar-in-enveloppes-panic. Bill Gates must really be jealous at BinjH > > Laden since Bin Laden won the media-attention war and Gates lost it. > H > Received in my wife's AOL inbox from a co-worker, to the tune of HarryH > Belafonte's "Day-o" (animated ala "South Park", with musical and vocal= > accompaniment - surprisingly good production, considering):g >  > PAY-o, PAY-AY-AY-o% > Payback come when we drop de bombs!h >  > Hey, Mr. Taliban,  > turn over bin Laden,% > Payback come when we drop de bombs!  >   * http://www.madblast.com/oska/humor_bin.swf   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:55:28 -0000i/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>i@ Subject: Re: SEDT problems on RedHat 7.1 (was Re: EDT for Linux)/ Message-ID: <tt72l0pveaooc4@corp.supernews.com>d  4 In comp.os.vms Lee Roth <leeroth@my-deja.com> wrote:F : To all that replied: I'll fuss with SEDT rebuild for a little while,9 : but if I have no success I'll try jed or barry's emacs.l  9 There's also GNU Emacs, available from http://www.gnu.orgn  B When I last went through the process, it was trivial to compile it and get it working for VMS.r   --   -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 03:09:43 -0000i/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>o@ Subject: Re: SEDT problems on RedHat 7.1 (was Re: EDT for Linux)/ Message-ID: <tt73fn1liai35a@corp.supernews.com>   4 In comp.os.vms Lee Roth <leeroth@my-deja.com> wrote:A : SEDT editor is at: http://www.ultranet.com/~anker/sedt/sedt.htm0  G : Now for my problem: The pre-compiled binary that comes in the 'linux' E : SEDT tar set used to run fine under RedHat 6.2, but won't run under  : RedHat 7.1 - example:c   :  $ ls -l sedt ? :  -rwx--x--x    1 roth     roth       183210 Feb  5  1996 sedt- :  [roth@dev2 s]$ ./sedt* :  bash: ./sedt: No such file or directory :  [roth@dev2 s]$   G This is something fundamental ... either protection or the way the bashG shell invokes executables.   :  [roth@dev2 s]$ ./builde? :  cc -O -DUNIX -DTERMCAP -DANSIC -DLINUX   -c -o vars.o vars.cy* :  vars.c:291: parse error before `My_UID'D :  vars.c:291: warning: data definition has no type or storage class* :  vars.c:293: parse error before `My_GID'D :  vars.c:293: warning: data definition has no type or storage class :  make: *** [vars.o] Error 1   " : The offending code in vars.c is:   :    284  #if defined(UNIX) $ :    285  char Defined_Terminal[80];1 :    286          /*User supplied terminal type*/e :    287  int Org_Width=0;0 :    288          /*Original width of terminal*/ :    289  int Same_Character=0;t  :    290  int Saved_Character=0; :    291  uid_t My_UID;t% :    292   /*UID of current process*/. :    293  gid_t My_GID;s% :    294   /*GID of current process*/w :    295  #endif  ? You have two typedefs missing, one for uid_t and one for gid_t.a= C typedefs are just a shorthand way for programmers to defineM7 and use their own types, based on standard C datatypes.o  < grep all the *.c and *.h files supplied with the product for   	typedef.*[ug]id_t  @ Find the file(s) and then look at any #if/#endif wrappers around? the typedefs to see why they're not being used by the compiler..  C If you're doing this for you and not for republication, a quick fixnB would be to see what the typedefs are and then just put them into D the C module that needs them.  That would be faster and simpler (andD less prone to creating more problems) than playing around with build defines.     : Lee (an old fart from DEC)  : Hi, Lee. The name sounds familiar.  I'm also an ex-DECcie.   -- a -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:21:21 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>c! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.l/ Message-ID: <tt6m3p6oqdh5d6@news.supernews.com>V  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageh8 news:YpDA7.140469$vq.32510689@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >n3 > "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messagee; > news:BaBA7.426764$8c3.75973218@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...nJ > > I am trying to assemble a proposal to put an application our our Alpha VMSp? > > system.  In order to push this proposal I need to do a coste justification;E > > alas, without the E-store, or Business Link, I cannot get all thee pricing  > IoL > > need.  Does anyone happen to have the list price of SNARJE for VMS for aJ > > workstation (ES40 /dual 833 mhz processors).  If I can get even a good > guessEF > > for this today (Sunday), I can have a proposal to submit tomorrow. > >4 >nK > Ah yes, additional evidence that Compaq's Web sites are the apotheosis ofMA > squatulence. Thanks to a reseller friend at Sequel Data Systemsn; > (www.sequeldata.com) we have the following information...i >cL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----* > QL-10UAE-AA  Compaq SNA Remote Job Entry >w4 >  Estim. Lead Time (Business Days) - 1 Day Shipment  I That estimated lead time is the time from ordering until shipment.  Sincek@ the demise of the E-Store it takes 60 to 90 days to get a price.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:42:28 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.5> Message-ID: <8QKA7.141428$vq.32961076@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:tt6m3p6oqdh5d6@news.supernews.com...eA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messaget: > news:YpDA7.140469$vq.32510689@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > >e5 > > "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message = > > news:BaBA7.426764$8c3.75973218@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com....L > > > I am trying to assemble a proposal to put an application our our Alpha > VMS1A > > > system.  In order to push this proposal I need to do a costk > justification;G > > > alas, without the E-store, or Business Link, I cannot get all thee	 > pricings > > IsL > > > need.  Does anyone happen to have the list price of SNARJE for VMS for a2L > > > workstation (ES40 /dual 833 mhz processors).  If I can get even a good	 > > guess<H > > > for this today (Sunday), I can have a proposal to submit tomorrow. > > >y > >.J > > Ah yes, additional evidence that Compaq's Web sites are the apotheosis ofC > > squatulence. Thanks to a reseller friend at Sequel Data Systems.= > > (www.sequeldata.com) we have the following information...  > >a >aL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ----, > > QL-10UAE-AA  Compaq SNA Remote Job Entry > >l6 > >  Estim. Lead Time (Business Days) - 1 Day Shipment > K > That estimated lead time is the time from ordering until shipment.  SincedB > the demise of the E-Store it takes 60 to 90 days to get a price. >O  K Yep. The only way I managed to get a price in 60 to 90 minutes was by goingtL through a reseller. She had an inordinately difficult time getting the info,4 which should be readily available to all and sundry.  H Maybe the HP acquisition will result in online services that don't suck.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 00:55:20 +0100 , From: "Strictly 4 Men" <inf@strictly4men.nl> Subject: Strictly 4 Men Models+ Message-ID: <B7F91EF8.48490D@[192.168.1.4]>1  J Hello,                                 Amsterdam, Monday, October 22, 2001  ? I would like to announce new web site of Strictly 4 Men Models.m  C Fashion Models and Escort Models are available for your pleasure onb Strictly Models web site.    http://www.strictly4men.nl  J For more info please send an email to info@strictly4men.nl and ask for me.     Yours sincerely    April Summer   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:53:28 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>0D Subject: Re: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon!' Message-ID: <3BD38A28.E74FAADE@fsi.net>   A Andy: This may look like an attack - it's not; it's intended as aeC reality/sanity check. The wording is a bit gruff, out of necessity.    Andy Stoffel wrote:  > [snip]/ > And by this point we all know who most of thea1 > negative posters are and why they are that way.   , Feel free to enlighten us with your insight.  , > For some it's too late.... a $1000 Itanium( > based OpenVMS desktop dropped on their > desk TOMORROW wouldn't help.  H ...unless my employer can get the same Itanic system, fully licensed forG commercial (profit-generating) purposes at the same affordable (there'slH *THAT* word again!) price. Remember - I *CAN* put a competitor's non-VMS? system in that same place on less than an hour's notice (it's atE ten-minute cab ride to/from CDW) for circa. that price range. In that/C sense, yes, it *IS* much too late and many thousands of dollars too  short.  G In another thread, I believe I mentioned that some associates and I are ? looking into starting up a wireless ISP to serve the areas that6H currently can't get any other broadband services, wireless or wired. TheH question came up whether we should use OpenVMS-based systems in our coreE servers. I had to be honest with them and tell them that the start-up D costs for such a configuration would likely be prohibitive given ourG start-up nature, though such stability and security would be in keepingEF with our mission statement: to provide impeccable QoS and incomparable uptimes.  . > Others, myself included, are just glad to be. > able to continue to use VMS and hope OpenVMS1 > Engineering is given a fair chance at moving usn0 > to IPF if that's what it will take to keep VMS2 > alive.... no senility here.... just a few cynics > to keep us on our toes.....i  5 Cynicism is one thing, and not necessarily unhealthy.   E The need to support myself and my family makes infeasible the idea of D putting my career on hold until the Q/HP gets their collective stuff	 together.M   -- U David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems2 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 04:50:39 GMT,* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net>D Subject: Re: VMS cell based sessions w/HTML on browsers coming soon!D Message-ID: <zANA7.1073720$ai2.81325140@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  = "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message h! news:3BD38A28.E74FAADE@fsi.net...wC > Andy: This may look like an attack - it's not; it's intended as a E > reality/sanity check. The wording is a bit gruff, out of necessity.-  C See your response as an attack ? No.... I will have to say that in TB some ways I've been fairly luck in job choice. Over the years I've5 actually managed to move more & more INTO VMS insteadeC of away from it. So it's possible I'm more upbeat because of that. e   > Andy Stoffel wrote:4
 > > [snip]1 > > And by this point we all know who most of the23 > > negative posters are and why they are that way.n > . > Feel free to enlighten us with your insight.  8 You'll have to pardon me for not naming specific people.< I don't see any value in that. And the value of my insight ?8 Given the diversity of people who appear on comp.os.vms,8 and my experience in a very small niche of the small VMS9 niche... I don't see myself as very insightful other than 4 not being blind to those who appear to have given up< and inflict their negativity on the rest of us and those who8 are obviously still positive about VMS but have given up on it having a future....t  7 > Cynicism is one thing, and not necessarily unhealthy.   D But there's a difference in being a cynic (or a skeptic, of which we? seem to have more than our fair share in comp.os.vms) and being A so negative as to drive away useful discussion or (the opposite) a7 being so sensitive that every message becomes an attacks that wasn't necessary.  < > The need to support myself and my family makes infeasible B > the idea of putting my career on hold until the Q/HP gets their  > collective stuff together.  D And I wouldn't suggest that at all..... This isn't some religion or < exclusive group that won't welcome you (or anyone else) back; if you wander away for a while because you've had to evolvep2 for the sake of survival while some of us didn't.   * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  : Someday..... what better way to run a home than with VMS ?   -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:35:05 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: VTEST on Alphaf' Message-ID: <3BD385D9.EB6CCC39@fsi.net>t  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > [snip]O > And you must remember that his products always work -- for him.  Kdollars andm > Kdollars and Kdollars ....  . I would have thought that to be K$, M$ and G$.   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:30:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f( Subject: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <3BD32238.55FFAAF3@videotron.ca>  G OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XPn operating system.l  K What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there arerK serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clusteringi
 etc etc) ?  ; What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?z   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:25:47 GMTe' From: Steve Thompson <smt@twcny.rr.com>d, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check pleaseI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110211526040.6840-100000@ibmbox.vgersoft.com>   $ On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, JF Mezei wrote:  I > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XPn > operating system.l >aM > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there aretM > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clustering  > etc etc) ? >r= > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?l  F Well, the first seven letters are the same; only the last two changed.   s-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:33:14 GMTh* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please+ Message-ID: <3BD33F4B.47E188EB@prodigy.net>n   JF Mezei wrote:  > I > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP- > operating system.2 > M > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there arejM > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clusteringE > etc etc) ? > = > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?e  O I think the difference is that this time Microsoft might not give you a choice.   L If Windows 98, ME and 2000 become unavailable, and you want a new PC from a 6 major vendor, you may become a de facto adopter of XP.  G Any choice as long as it's the one from which they make the most money.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:57:54 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please> Message-ID: <6NFA7.140669$vq.32657143@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  7 "cjt & trefoil" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in messageo% news:3BD33F4B.47E188EB@prodigy.net...e > JF Mezei wrote:d > >sK > > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XPa > > operating system.- > >iK > > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there  are/C > > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of thingsw (clustering/ > > etc etc) ? > >-? > > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?r > I > I think the difference is that this time Microsoft might not give you am choice.e >gK > If Windows 98, ME and 2000 become unavailable, and you want a new PC fromF az8 > major vendor, you may become a de facto adopter of XP. >hI > Any choice as long as it's the one from which they make the most money.W  K That is the best one-line description of Micro$oft marketing practices I've 
 ever seen.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:18:52 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <tt6luvhnbmmh79@news.supernews.com>   H For  a business environment, virtually nothing has been improved.  RightF now, XP is only for desktops, the server version hasn't been released.  G I upgraded from 2000 to XP and it feels more like a downgrade.  I can't H think of one thing that's actually improved.  The one feature that I wasK looking forward to was the ability to be logged on to more than one account I and quickly switch between them.  Now I've found out that this only workspD for home and workgroup environments, if you're in a domain it is not
 available.  J One key change that I can think of is the product activation.  You have toJ activate within 60 days or it stops working.  I haven't activated yet so II don't know how much information they want.  I'm going to delay activatingeJ until after I add memory, otherwise I may have to activate twice and incur( the wrath of the Redmond License Police.  ? I'm glad I didn't pay for this "upgrade".  (MSDN subscription).v  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BD32238.55FFAAF3@videotron.ca...I > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP- > operating system.e >oI > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are theren are A > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of thingse (clustering7 > etc etc) ? >s= > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:29:34 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>r, Subject: RE: Windows XP reality check pleaseT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4010D7114@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,l   re: XP vs other OS's ..r  F For W2K desktop users, there will likely not be much incentive to move? to XP. For other W9x/ME users, it may be something to consider.h   Some press reviews:n? http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-7501958-0.html?tag=3Dtp_prc    G Biggest potential issue I have heard  (second hand mind you, so need toIF confirm) with XP is the new licensing scheme ie. it uses keys that youA need to contact MS to get. They are apparently tied to the HW yousD install it on, so to re-install that license on another desktop, one3 would have to contact MS again and get another key.:  * Perhaps others can verify if this is true?   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.n Professional Services2 Voice: 613-592-4660p Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] Sent: October 21, 2001 3:30 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( Subject: Windows XP reality check please    G OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XPf operating system.p  G What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are therer are ? serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things  (clusteringt
 etc etc) ?  ; What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:44:08 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please> Message-ID: <IRKA7.141438$vq.32962802@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:tt6luvhnbmmh79@news.supernews.com...lJ > For  a business environment, virtually nothing has been improved.  RightH > now, XP is only for desktops, the server version hasn't been released. >.I > I upgraded from 2000 to XP and it feels more like a downgrade.  I can'taJ > think of one thing that's actually improved.  The one feature that I wasE > looking forward to was the ability to be logged on to more than oneg accountsK > and quickly switch between them.  Now I've found out that this only worksnF > for home and workgroup environments, if you're in a domain it is not > available. >.L > One key change that I can think of is the product activation.  You have to. > activate within 60 days or it stops working.  A IMHO the Risky Activation Scheme is bad juju, not an improvement!p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:23:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <3BD38334.DF1EC49E@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:rC > IMHO the Risky Activation Scheme is bad juju, not an improvement!n  H Is it just me, or do I smell the downfall of Microsoft because of that ?  K It seems to me that Microsoft has realised that its past business practiceseN were not profitable. And with its stock performance now gone, it can no longerK pay with employees with stock options (removing "payroll" from the expenses.M section of the company). So if MS now must dish actual cash to pay employees,-N it needs to raise additional revenus. And with people no longer conditioned toM buy the brand new version of X as soon as it comes out, my feeling is that MSf/ saw the need to change the way it gets revenus.o  M Now, if it fails, it may start the downfall of Microsoft because it will have-H trouble generating significant profits as time goes. And if it succeeds,J customers won't be bliondly buying Microsoft products and freeware such asM StarOffice may start to really eat into MS's marketshare, eventually bringingc down Microsoft.a  K I find it very odd that companies such as Dell and Compaq wanted so much tonM depend on a single Microsoft supplier. Any company that has a success that ismW way too high is bound to fall back on the ground very very hard. (Nortel for instance).B  7 Is Microsoft's demise starting with this new strategy ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:52:50 -04001. From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please. Message-ID: <3BD38A02.30BD4053@cablespeed.com>  H Can one relate this new license scheme to the existing license scheme ofF OpenVMS?  Seems to me that one beef this newsgroup has always had withE OpenVMS is the licensing of OS and layered products, etc.  Of course,oH the "downfall" of OpenVMS is not due to licensing policies alone, but itH seems that those policies have had their effect.  One can only hope that the same applies to Microsoft.   JF Mezei wrote:r >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: E > > IMHO the Risky Activation Scheme is bad juju, not an improvement!  > J > Is it just me, or do I smell the downfall of Microsoft because of that ? > M > It seems to me that Microsoft has realised that its past business practicesmP > were not profitable. And with its stock performance now gone, it can no longerM > pay with employees with stock options (removing "payroll" from the expenses9O > section of the company). So if MS now must dish actual cash to pay employees, P > it needs to raise additional revenus. And with people no longer conditioned toO > buy the brand new version of X as soon as it comes out, my feeling is that MSb1 > saw the need to change the way it gets revenus.  > O > Now, if it fails, it may start the downfall of Microsoft because it will have J > trouble generating significant profits as time goes. And if it succeeds,L > customers won't be bliondly buying Microsoft products and freeware such asO > StarOffice may start to really eat into MS's marketshare, eventually bringinge > down Microsoft.r > M > I find it very odd that companies such as Dell and Compaq wanted so much toaO > depend on a single Microsoft supplier. Any company that has a success that isfY > way too high is bound to fall back on the ground very very hard. (Nortel for instance).i > 9 > Is Microsoft's demise starting with this new strategy ?    -- : --    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:30:08 -0500S1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>!, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please' Message-ID: <3BD392C0.FA7C91A7@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:a > I > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XPn > operating system.  > M > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there aredM > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clusteringo > etc etc) ? > = > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?r  G Personally, I'd starting grabbing up all those W/9x distro.'s that comeI. up on eBay, if you wish to stay on WhineBloze.  E Expect a major up-surge in the popularity of WhineBloze alternatives.g   -- r David J. DachteraC dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:03:54 GMTh" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please+ Message-ID: <3BD3AA1C.2EF5C5AF@cumulus.com>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > JF,s >  > re: XP vs other OS's ..  > H > For W2K desktop users, there will likely not be much incentive to moveA > to XP. For other W9x/ME users, it may be something to consider.e >  > Some press reviews:s? > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-7501958-0.html?tag=tp_prn > I > Biggest potential issue I have heard  (second hand mind you, so need tosH > confirm) with XP is the new licensing scheme ie. it uses keys that youC > need to contact MS to get. They are apparently tied to the HW youfF > install it on, so to re-install that license on another desktop, one5 > would have to contact MS again and get another key.u > , > Perhaps others can verify if this is true? >   G Yes, it's true.  But if you buy a new machine with XP pre-installed itss
 not an issue.i  ? The whole thing centers on their paranoia over software piracy.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:05:29 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please+ Message-ID: <3BD3AA7B.EC758606@cumulus.com>.   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:p > >wK > > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP  > > operating system.m > >dO > > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there arebO > > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clusteringn > > etc etc) ? > > ? > > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?2 > I > Personally, I'd starting grabbing up all those W/9x distro.'s that comen0 > up on eBay, if you wish to stay on WhineBloze. > G > Expect a major up-surge in the popularity of WhineBloze alternatives.  >   H Too bad some company can't make a home version of vms. At least it would
 be stable.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.587 ************************