1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 22 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 588       Contents:< 200+ technical ebooks now available here http://61.9.151.215 <None>
 Re: <None>
 Re: <None> Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: A free VMS implementation? Re: ALGOL and 1022 database  BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL- CDD RDB + Datatrieve - what license do I need  Re: Changing File Attributes Re: Changing File Attributes$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk Re: DECNET ping equivalent?  Re: ECC  Re: ECC  Re: ECC % Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking ) Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking ) Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking ) Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking ) Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking  How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! RE: How know last system restart? ! RE: How know last system restart? 
 re:HP4100N Re: HP4100N  Re: HP4100N # Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master  I am changing jobs Re: It's Friday - Re: Linker64 producing un-INSTALLable images? - Re: Linker64 producing un-INSTALLable images? & Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy Re: Mitnick Uncaged  re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  RE: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged . Mondays are More Exciting with TCPIP 5.0A ECO3* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger# New C-Kermit 8.0 manpage + tutorial ) Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software  Re: Printing to NLA0:? Re: Runtime JAVA for openvms Re: Runtime JAVA for openvms Re: Runtime JAVA for openvms7 Re: SEDT problems on RedHat 7.1 (was Re: EDT for Linux)  SET FILE/ATTRIB in C Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in C Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in C Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.D Re: The most hated country in the world ( was Re: Bomb The Mosques ) Re: vms declared unhackable!* Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authentication$ vt420 soft characters example (drcs) Re: VTEST on Alpha, Re: We've burned our boats say Compaq and HP* RE: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centre# Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please / Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port? / Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port? / Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port?  [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!! # Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!! # Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!! # Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!! # Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:12:39 GMT - From: "onlinebooks" <onlinebooks@mybooks.com> E Subject: 200+ technical ebooks now available here http://61.9.151.215 @ Message-ID: <bqRA7.193638$bY5.913306@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  < 200+ technical ebooks now available here http://61.9.151.215   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 07:51:49 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: <None> 3 Message-ID: <yx02gahsk+wH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <CCDA7.844849$NK1.75447166@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  L > Indeed - they must read different media than I do, since most of what I've7 > seen about XP has been decidely cautious-to-negative.  >   F    Washington Post did a fairly good story on a look at XP last week. ?    Mostly MS still throwing around it's monopoly weight.  Major D    corporations (e.g. Kodak) were able to negotiate some changes to     monopolistic features.   E    The last item was the most interesting.  You have to "activate" XP G    withing so many days or it stops running (some vendors will activate I    it before shipping, activation is not the same as traditional customer     product registration).     G    Activation records you setup so you can't copy XP to another system  H    (violate MS Copyright).  XP won't run if it doesn't see the setup it     was activaterd for.    J    There's an implication that a memory upgrade, an additional hard disk, K    or a non-identical part swap may require a re-activation before XP will  (    run.  Further details were not given.  /    Maybe this will chase your CEO away from MS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:15:11 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: <None> D Message-ID: <PRVA7.1078737$ai2.81685906@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:yx02gahsk+wH@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   G >    The last item was the most interesting.  You have to "activate" XP I >    withing so many days or it stops running (some vendors will activate K >    it before shipping, activation is not the same as traditional customer  >    product registration).  > H >    Activation records you setup so you can't copy XP to another systemI >    (violate MS Copyright).  XP won't run if it doesn't see the setup it  >    was activaterd for. > K >    There's an implication that a memory upgrade, an additional hard disk, L >    or a non-identical part swap may require a re-activation before XP will* >    run.  Further details were not given.  G What I've read suggests that the activation may be tied to the BIOS (in K which case it will survive replacement of other hardware) or to some set of K hardware components, not all of which need be present.  So single-component A upgrades may not be a problem, but more ambitions revamps may be.   J The general reaction has not been positive, but whether it will suffice to  stifle sales remains to be seen.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:59:02 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: <None> + Message-ID: <VA.00000490.2a995b26@sture.ch>   F In article <yx02gahsk+wH@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler wrote:r > In article <CCDA7.844849$NK1.75447166@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > N > > Indeed - they must read different media than I do, since most of what I've9 > > seen about XP has been decidely cautious-to-negative.  > >  > H >    Washington Post did a fairly good story on a look at XP last week. A >    Mostly MS still throwing around it's monopoly weight.  Major F >    corporations (e.g. Kodak) were able to negotiate some changes to  >    monopolistic features.  > G >    The last item was the most interesting.  You have to "activate" XP I >    withing so many days or it stops running (some vendors will activate K >    it before shipping, activation is not the same as traditional customer  >    product registration).    > I >    Activation records you setup so you can't copy XP to another system  J >    (violate MS Copyright).  XP won't run if it doesn't see the setup it  >    was activaterd for.   > L >    There's an implication that a memory upgrade, an additional hard disk, M >    or a non-identical part swap may require a re-activation before XP will  * >    run.  Further details were not given. > K From snippets I've read, M$ increased the number of components which can be H swapped without triggering re-activation, but only after public protest.  % A further article from The Economist:   B http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=822234  5 Then there's the Passport stuff to worry about too...    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:26:29 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 1 Message-ID: <UVWA7.753$RL6.8333@news.cpqcorp.net>   K You can write good code and bad code in nearly any language.  The fact that H a lot of UNIX C code looks like a 5th grader wrote it (or sometimes like= line-noise) doesn't mean that the language itself is useless.   G I've written a lot of C, Bliss, and Macro-32 over the years working for J DEC/Compaq.  Given the *choice* for writing a new module, I would probablyL pick C as the language.  I can write and debug it faster, and when I'm done,E it will be maintainable by someone looking to fix a problem, or add a K feature - rather than trying to decode Bliss and figure out where I dropped  a dot.   _Fred   D Paul Repacholi wrote in message <877ktqp1az.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...0 >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > E >> I would not agree that it is a good basis for a choice.  Qualified A >> software engineers can adapt to any language.  I do understand @ >> Fred's comment about employees feeling ill-at-ease due to not# >> working in a "popular" language.  > 0 >"Goodbye" is a better answer to that 'problem'. >  >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., 8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076 / >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. G >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:34:00 GMT 5 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@REMOVETHISossc.net> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? D Message-ID: <I%WA7.1079596$ai2.81752599@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   You mean, .Fred    -John   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:UVWA7.753$RL6.8333@news.cpqcorp.net... H > You can write good code and bad code in nearly any language.  The fact thatJ > a lot of UNIX C code looks like a 5th grader wrote it (or sometimes like? > line-noise) doesn't mean that the language itself is useless.  > I > I've written a lot of C, Bliss, and Macro-32 over the years working for L > DEC/Compaq.  Given the *choice* for writing a new module, I would probablyH > pick C as the language.  I can write and debug it faster, and when I'm done, G > it will be maintainable by someone looking to fix a problem, or add a E > feature - rather than trying to decode Bliss and figure out where I  dropped  > a dot. >  > _Fred  > F > Paul Repacholi wrote in message <877ktqp1az.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...2 > >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > > G > >> I would not agree that it is a good basis for a choice.  Qualified C > >> software engineers can adapt to any language.  I do understand B > >> Fred's comment about employees feeling ill-at-ease due to not% > >> working in a "popular" language.  > > 2 > >"Goodbye" is a better answer to that 'problem'. > >  > >-- ? > >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., : > >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.C > >                                             West Australia 6076 1 > >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. I > >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:00:47 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 1 Message-ID: <aiYA7.771$RL6.8358@news.cpqcorp.net>   ( Or is it ..Fred?  Or maybe just Fred ;-)      ( John Gemignani, Jr. wrote in message ... >You mean, .Fred >  >-John > A >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message , >news:UVWA7.753$RL6.8333@news.cpqcorp.net...I >> You can write good code and bad code in nearly any language.  The fact  >that K >> a lot of UNIX C code looks like a 5th grader wrote it (or sometimes like @ >> line-noise) doesn't mean that the language itself is useless. >>J >> I've written a lot of C, Bliss, and Macro-32 over the years working forD >> DEC/Compaq.  Given the *choice* for writing a new module, I would probablyI >> pick C as the language.  I can write and debug it faster, and when I'm  >done,H >> it will be maintainable by someone looking to fix a problem, or add aF >> feature - rather than trying to decode Bliss and figure out where I >dropped	 >> a dot.  >> >> _Fred >>G >> Paul Repacholi wrote in message <877ktqp1az.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... 3 >> >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >> >H >> >> I would not agree that it is a good basis for a choice.  QualifiedD >> >> software engineers can adapt to any language.  I do understandC >> >> Fred's comment about employees feeling ill-at-ease due to not & >> >> working in a "popular" language. >> >3 >> >"Goodbye" is a better answer to that 'problem'.  >> > >> >--@ >> >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,; >> >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. D >> >                                             West Australia 60762 >> >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.J >> >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. >> >> >> >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 12:15:13 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 3 Message-ID: <MvMeuqechGI9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <aiYA7.771$RL6.8358@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: * > Or is it ..Fred?  Or maybe just Fred ;-)  0 At least it isn't    &(*Fred[53]).Kleinsorge[42]   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:23:32 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ' Subject: Re: A free VMS implementation? 1 Message-ID: <wDYA7.775$RL6.8472@news.cpqcorp.net>   . Of course not, _Fred is a macro definition ;-)    $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...D >In article <aiYA7.771$RL6.8358@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: + >> Or is it ..Fred?  Or maybe just Fred ;-)  > 1 >At least it isn't    &(*Fred[53]).Kleinsorge[42]    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:07:11 GMT $ From: P Duff <pduff@duff-family.com>$ Subject: Re: ALGOL and 1022 database/ Message-ID: <3BD40BEF.E3BBE416@duff-family.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > E > In article <1vjastcqtciaedqoi6mu08fp95tq9o6fls@4ax.com>, Alan Greig  > <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > D > > I think I recall reading many years ago that 1022 was the serialA > > number of the KL-10 the database was originally developed on.  > H > Whereas I believe it means the software ran on (PDP-)10s and (PDP-)20s > too (2).  1022.   A I don't monitor this group at all, in fact, I didn't know that it E existed until a former 1022 co-worker pointed it out to me yesterday. 4 Pursuant to this message and to the thread at large,6 a common guess that the name is borne of 10s and 20s, > is undone by the fact that when 1022 was developed there were  no DEC20s, only 10s. :( = I worked w/ SH co-founders Andy Garland and Charlie Houseman  ? for about 10 years. Although I asked them and other co-workers, 1 AFAIK they never revealed the source of the name.   7 Re: expiration date, it's not entirely straightforward  6 to defeat the date checking mechanism in that version,A since the date is checked in several stages, at different places e4 in the code, some of which happened at random times.7 If memory serves, there was one customer whose license t< required a copy that never expired, for whom I was directed 4 to write a patch to JFCL out the expiration checks. 4 No, I didn't keep a copy of the patch, so don't ask.   P Duff   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:52:30 +0200r& From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> Subject: BCC support in VMSMAIL * Message-ID: <3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com>  
 Hello All,  A Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support toV VMSMAIL.. I would like to get your feedback about this :   Do we really need this ?H Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ?a  - Thoughts comments and complaints are welcome.c  	 Guy Pelegp OpenVMS Engineeringk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:06:36 +0010k% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auc# Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILD5 Message-ID: <01K9TBCZ4EZM00658O@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Guy,  M As I live on VMS mail, I am only guessing vicariously.  Does BCC mean "blind  M carbon copy", which I believe is used extensively in Outlook, but not really :	 honoured.v   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:22:28 +0200e& From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL * Message-ID: <3BD3F364.B4CBF6DF@compaq.com>   Yes, BCC is Blind Carbon Copyl  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:   > Guy, > N > As I live on VMS mail, I am only guessing vicariously.  Does BCC mean "blindN > carbon copy", which I believe is used extensively in Outlook, but not really > honoured.i >u > Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:56:15 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk# Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILn+ Message-ID: <9r0u0f$5be$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  S In article <3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> writes:a >  >Hello All,  >aB >Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support to	 >VMSMAIL.n/ >I would like to get your feedback about this :o >E >Do we really need this ?3I >Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAILp >or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ? >a. >Thoughts comments and complaints are welcome. >f
 >Guy Peleg >OpenVMS Engineering >u  < If your going to do it then do it for all VMSMAIL messages. G VMSMAIL to Exchange ?????? Why on earth explicitly mention Exchange !!!xK Most sites using VMSMAIL will be using one of the TCPIP stacks to send mail 0 to all sorts of non-VMS boxes not just Exchange.    M However what you really need is to add in all the missing features to VMSMAIL N not just BCC support. See PMDF MAIL originally from Innosoft (www.innosoft.comM now from process wwww.pmdf.process.com) for what can and needs to be done to aD VMSMAIL. Full Docs on the facilities of PMDF MAIL are available from  I http://eljefe.innosoft.com:7633/doc/user_vms/book_6.html#chapter_pmdfmaile  M (Note. Process and Innosoft would probably be glad to have VMS MAIL rewritten K to provide all these features since they were forced into writing PMDF MaileN because of this lack in the first place - they were more interested in writing9 an MTA rather than writing and supporting a mail client).k    G There are probably a few other things which should also be considered. pJ For instance to enable the VMS MAIL store to be used with IMAP PMDF had toI implement external files in users directories to hold UID information etco    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 06:27:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)!# Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL!3 Message-ID: <o1nz1M$ZkElB@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  S In article <3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> writes:- >  > Hello All, > C > Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support tos
 > VMSMAIL.0 > I would like to get your feedback about this : >  > Do we really need this ?  A "Need" is a relative term.  To have any hope of appearing to be ae% useful mail program, BCC is required.1  J > Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL > or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ?b  < Certainly it must be in both the Mail-11 protocol and in the interface to SNMP.   What is Exchange ? :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 06:30:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL 3 Message-ID: <Rrnx+dV6Tnvb@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ] In article <01K9TBCZ4EZM00658O@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  > Guy, > O > As I live on VMS mail, I am only guessing vicariously.  Does BCC mean "blind wO > carbon copy", which I believe is used extensively in Outlook, but not really   > honoured.m  H Presumably any VMS implementation would be sufficiently robust as to useL separate transmissions for the public addressees and for each BCC addressee.  G The fact that other implementations might be flawed does not mean it is $ impossible to make it work securely.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:17:20 GMTn& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILm> Message-ID: <k7UA7.392713$aZ.78396922@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  K I would like to have the (BCC) feature, but exchange is useless to me.  HownJ about including the interface  to Lotus Notes.   I appreciate your effort.G Any effort to give VMS a  boost that management will see and understand:L gives us cynics pause to re-consider, but while you are at it, why don't youL solicit opinions on other features for VMSMAIL.  Currently, the only defenseL we have for it's lack of functionality is that it is free (with the purchaseL of VMS of course).  We can't even say it is getting better (can we????????).  L How about letting VMSMAIL support binary attachments?  Now that is something that would make me smile!   3 "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@compaq.com> wrote in messagei$ news:3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com... >o > Hello All, >tC > Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support to 
 > VMSMAIL.0 > I would like to get your feedback about this : >p > Do we really need this ?J > Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL > or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ?  >t/ > Thoughts comments and complaints are welcome.  >  > Guy Pelegr > OpenVMS Engineering. >  >t >v >e   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 08:07:32 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e# Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILe3 Message-ID: <LLeIQ7$ZiepW@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  S In article <3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> writes:a   > Do we really need this ?      Yes.t  J > Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL > or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ?o  >    What in the hell is Exchange and why is it relavent to VMS?  C    Certainly we need it VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL and VMSMAIL to/from SMTPn    (for all popular IP stacks).o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:50:28 -0400@2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILd* Message-ID: <3BD43234.718D15E6@oracle.com>   >Larry Kilgallen wrote:  > U > In article <3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> writes:d > >i > > Hello All, > >oE > > Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support toy > > VMSMAIL.2 > > I would like to get your feedback about this : > >  > > Do we really need this ? > C > "Need" is a relative term.  To have any hope of appearing to be aa' > useful mail program, BCC is required.y  / 	well I, for one, find VMS mail plenty 'useful't: without BCC.  Perhaps Larry uses mail for things different8 than I do so he requires BCC to be present in a 'useful'
 mail problem. / 	I'd vote that there are plenty of other things + that are actually useful long before "BCC".n   > L > > Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL! > > or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ?d > > > Certainly it must be in both the Mail-11 protocol and in the > interface to SNMP. >  > What is Exchange ? :-)   -- r> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:56:06 GMT-& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILo> Message-ID: <asWA7.392971$aZ.78542631@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:o1nz1M$ZkElB@eisner.encompasserve.org...-   snip >- > What is Exchange ? :-) >, endsnip0  H As I recall, Exchange is a program we used to use to read non-VMS tapes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:03:50 +0200e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILy' Message-ID: <3BD43556.20CE97AA@home.nl>   
 Hello Guy,  L I do think BCC would be very nice to have. I can think of several situationsK where it is desirable to send a copy of a message to a third party, withoutoH informing the person to which the e-mail is addressed. BCC is a standardK feature in Netscape / Mozilla too, so why not in VMS mail ?  For reasons ofiH uniformity I think it should function the same for all mail traffic, VMS
 mail or SMTP.,   regards,   Dirk     Guy Peleg wrote:   > Hello All, >fC > Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support toi
 > VMSMAIL.0 > I would like to get your feedback about this : >p > Do we really need this ?J > Do we need to have  BCC support sending messages from VMSMAIL to VMSMAIL > or VMSMAIL to Exchange only ?p >o/ > Thoughts comments and complaints are welcome.n >b > Guy Peleg  > OpenVMS Engineering    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:28:26 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> # Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL.1 Message-ID: <HXWA7.754$RL6.8401@news.cpqcorp.net>a  1 Don't forget to add it to DECwindows mail too ;-)   < Guy Peleg wrote in message <3BD3F364.B4CBF6DF@compaq.com>... >Yes, BCC is Blind Carbon Copy >f' >paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:  >  >> Guy,- >>H >> As I live on VMS mail, I am only guessing vicariously.  Does BCC mean "blindH >> carbon copy", which I believe is used extensively in Outlook, but not really >> honoured. >> >> Regards, Paddyi >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:59:02 +0200k  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILe+ Message-ID: <VA.0000048f.2a995a2c@sture.ch>   8 In article <3BD43556.20CE97AA@home.nl>, Dirk Munk wrote: > Hello Guy, > N > I do think BCC would be very nice to have. I can think of several situationsM > where it is desirable to send a copy of a message to a third party, without J > informing the person to which the e-mail is addressed. BCC is a standardM > feature in Netscape / Mozilla too, so why not in VMS mail ?  For reasons ofaJ > uniformity I think it should function the same for all mail traffic, VMS > mail or SMTP.  > L BCC is also useful for sending a group mail where you don't want to run the ( risk of one recipient spamming the rest.   ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:59:01 +0200r  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAILs+ Message-ID: <VA.0000048e.2a995873@sture.ch>n  J In article <asWA7.392971$aZ.78542631@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, John nixon  wrote:< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:o1nz1M$ZkElB@eisner.encompasserve.org...e >  > snip > >m > > What is Exchange ? :-) > >l	 > endsnip  > J > As I recall, Exchange is a program we used to use to read non-VMS tapes. >  $ help exchange    EXCHANGE  D      Invokes the Exchange utility (EXCHANGE), which manipulates massA      storage volumes that are written in formats other than thosef1      normally recognized by the operating system.   ?      EXCHANGE allows you to perform any of the following tasks:4        o  Create foreign volumes.k  .      o  Transfer files to and from the volume.  '      o  List directories of the volume.1  % And from Lance Wilkinson's signature:.  H "Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"  
 Hmm... :-) ___d
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandK   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 06:15:53 -0700+ From: paul_hallam@my-deja.com (Paul Hallam)n6 Subject: CDD RDB + Datatrieve - what license do I need= Message-ID: <e0f79ac8.0110220515.1352916f@posting.google.com>e  D We have been tasked with moving an old application from VAX to ALPHAB due to the split of the old Rover company into 3 seperate entities (MG-Rover, Ford & BMW).w  E This application uses CDD to store data structures which are compiledI into the Cobol programs  for execution.2 The application itself makes no use of CDD or RDB.= The support group for the application use datatrieve for datap# manipulation as and when necessary. E We need to keep costs to a minimum as this is an old application that  will just keep goingE for quite some time yet but will not require any further development.   B I believe we could do away with CDD and RDB but if we can get away with single user licensesg' it's not believed to be cost-effective.   < Can anyone confirm that I only need single user CDD, RDB and* Datatrieve licenses for the support group.D i.e. there is no hidden costs anywhere if the above is assumed to be true.G   Paul Hallamt   phallam@csc.com'   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:48:46 +010014 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>% Subject: Re: Changing File Attributes 8 Message-ID: <tmq7ttcoiteg4vpk79p7bev8m7e0jdvuo2@4ax.com>  7 On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:20:54 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"h <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >JF Mezei wrote: >> l >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote:-G >> > > > Record format:      Stream, maximum 79 bytes, longest 79 bytesg! >> > > > Record attributes:  None  >> jK >> > In VMS-land, the Stream record format means that records are separatedaM >> > by a <CR><LF> pair (a.k.a. "DOS/Windows" format). A "binary" ("stream ofrC >> > bytes") file is typically Fixed-512 with no record attributes.y >> sP >> But a "stream" file in VMS is akin to a fixed format 512 byte one in terms of >> contents. > E >Hhmm... well, for that matter, you can say the same of Stream_LF andoB >Stream_CR. A Fixed-512 file will be read as fixed-length 512 byteI >records. A Stream file will be read as variable length records delimited D >by <CR><LF> pairs. A Stream_LF file will be read as variable lengthE >records delimited by <LF>. A Stream_CR file will be read as variablen" >length records delimited by <CR>.  H Check your doco.  Stream records are delimited by more than just a CR/LF@ pair.  A simple LF or FF will also act as terminators, so Stream# includes Stream_LF as it turns out.      	Johnf -- f
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 07:50:18 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: Changing File Attributesq3 Message-ID: <xlrxenSWamUX@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  o In article <tmq7ttcoiteg4vpk79p7bev8m7e0jdvuo2@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:aJ > Check your doco.  Stream records are delimited by more than just a CR/LFB > pair.  A simple LF or FF will also act as terminators, so Stream% > includes Stream_LF as it turns out.n  H Well, it depends on whether you are reading or writing that Stream file.  = If you're writing, RMS puts a CRLF in for you as a delimiter.,  B If you're reading, RMS will interpret various character strings as delimiters.t  E The upshot of this is that RMS record-oriented access to Stream filesw! is not very safe for binary data.h   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:09:43 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingiA Message-ID: <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,  2 Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> wrote in message9 news:5.1.0.14.2.20011022050653.0432eaf0@mail.rbnsn.com...o >iI > This is a very interesting article that came via the ZDNet Tech update:c  / 'Interesting' is I suppose one applicable term.o  K VMS 'marketing director' Bob Blatz may get points for uncharacteristic zeal L for describing the over-400,000-strong/over-10,000,000-user VMS system base,L but ISTR Terry having indicated that this figure may be a bit out of date byJ now.  I'd be less suspicious if the rest of the article didn't read like aI freshman marketeer's output (which hardly reflects well upon the researchtL abilities of the 'journalist', but standards in that area are admittedly low these days).  H The statement that "a detailed road map, stretching into the foreseeableL future, addresses the concerns of current customers while keeping OpenVMS inC the horse race against other highly scalable and available big iron-A front-runners" neither indicates any understanding of recent (and.L regrettably frequent) Compaq perfidies in such future commitments nor of theG level of development required to stay current in this industry, and theyE reporter's confusion over the nature of what was sold to Intel hardlyeL increases one's appreciation of his factual acquaintance with the situation.  J Gorham's comments tend to reinforce my previous suspicions (based first onK his absurd statements to Alphaman just after the Intel deal and then on theME slides from his CETS presentation) that he's a weenie who's not to beaI trusted.  Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to statelG that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today's A offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.o  L And the statement "Intel is clearly beginning to level the playing field forG almost all OS contenders" in a column with the title 'Reality Check' isaF farcical.  The members of the Itanium architecture that can compete inC absolute performance in server-style environments (as distinct fromlL specialized technical areas where SPECfp performance is more applicable thanE SPECint) with POWER4 (and even EV7 and PA-RISC, with their dead-endedkL architectures) on the high end, existing x86 implementations on the low end,L and AMD's Hammer across the board have not yet appeared on Intel's road mapsF let alone been designed.  And if *price*-performance is the criterion, Itanium looks even worse.E  K It's nice to see VMS mentioned at all, and in a positive way, in the press. H But it's difficult to imagine that this article reflects any substantive& change in its lingering-death warrant.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:13:28 GMTg& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking > Message-ID: <sIWA7.392977$aZ.78559839@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  J As ususal, you are much more eloquent, informed and well researched than I am.e   However, you are wrong.o  I This kind of article is exactly the kind we need.  Comments such as yourstL and J.F.'s do not help worth a twit.  For years, the complaint was that  VMSJ was technically the best, but they could not buy a positive comment in theH press.  Here we get positive comments, and you blast them.  Who the hellJ cares if  he exagerated (or was just plain wrong) when he said memory willK be 300 times faster.  Articles like this help me get VMS projects approved.wL The more VMS projects that get approved, the more likely it will be for HPAQJ to take notice and keep investing in VMS. Since we do know that VMS is theL best OS for many things,  once it is installed, it will work well and do theI job.  Nobody is going to come back and ask me if the memory is really 300 
 times faster.0  K Other people from my company read this newsgroup as well.  All the negativeBH comments are taken right back to their managers.  Is it no wonder I haveL trouble getting things done. You are perpetuating a self fulfiling prophesy.  L If I were that author and I read your comments, I would not attempt to writeF a follow-up, unless it was to point out what a bunch of self-righteous tech-weenies VMS bigots are.  L How many times have we heard the phrase "It's the marketing, stupid".    YouI did mention at the end that it is nice to see VMS mentioned, but trashing = the whole article negates any positive that can come from it.t  J (I thi nk I have had too much coffee this morning,    I have worked on VMSL since 1981. (PDP's prior to that). I spent this weekend working on promotingI VMS in my Company. It pains me to see you keep complaining about everyoner( that says anything good or bad about it.  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee; news:HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...> >a4 > Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> wrote in message; > news:5.1.0.14.2.20011022050653.0432eaf0@mail.rbnsn.com...B > >aK > > This is a very interesting article that came via the ZDNet Tech update:u >o1 > 'Interesting' is I suppose one applicable term.e >tH > VMS 'marketing director' Bob Blatz may get points for uncharacteristic zealH > for describing the over-400,000-strong/over-10,000,000-user VMS system base, K > but ISTR Terry having indicated that this figure may be a bit out of date  byL > now.  I'd be less suspicious if the rest of the article didn't read like aK > freshman marketeer's output (which hardly reflects well upon the researchDJ > abilities of the 'journalist', but standards in that area are admittedly low( > these days). >xJ > The statement that "a detailed road map, stretching into the foreseeableK > future, addresses the concerns of current customers while keeping OpenVMSn inE > the horse race against other highly scalable and available big iron C > front-runners" neither indicates any understanding of recent (andVJ > regrettably frequent) Compaq perfidies in such future commitments nor of thehI > level of development required to stay current in this industry, and theiG > reporter's confusion over the nature of what was sold to Intel hardlyiC > increases one's appreciation of his factual acquaintance with the 
 situation. >gL > Gorham's comments tend to reinforce my previous suspicions (based first onI > his absurd statements to Alphaman just after the Intel deal and then onB thepG > slides from his CETS presentation) that he's a weenie who's not to bepK > trusted.  Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to stategI > that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'ssC > offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.n >eJ > And the statement "Intel is clearly beginning to level the playing field for0I > almost all OS contenders" in a column with the title 'Reality Check' isCH > farcical.  The members of the Itanium architecture that can compete inE > absolute performance in server-style environments (as distinct frompI > specialized technical areas where SPECfp performance is more applicablet thanG > SPECint) with POWER4 (and even EV7 and PA-RISC, with their dead-endedxI > architectures) on the high end, existing x86 implementations on the low  end,I > and AMD's Hammer across the board have not yet appeared on Intel's road( mapsH > let alone been designed.  And if *price*-performance is the criterion, > Itanium looks even worse.m >oF > It's nice to see VMS mentioned at all, and in a positive way, in the press.J > But it's difficult to imagine that this article reflects any substantive( > change in its lingering-death warrant. >, > - bill >u >e >@ >p   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 10:23:52 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)y- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge3 Message-ID: <fvGYfXN7yOJV@eisner.encompasserve.org>?  n In article <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >    > L > Gorham's comments tend to reinforce my previous suspicions (based first onM > his absurd statements to Alphaman just after the Intel deal and then on theeG > slides from his CETS presentation) that he's a weenie who's not to behK > trusted.  Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to state I > that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'seH                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^C > offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.n >   < 	That of course is impossible.  The writer may have left outA 	a single word like "percent".  And 300-500 percent faster memorym@ 	access speeds is very realistic at the 300% range (local memory? 	access in a multi-cpu Marvel) versus local memory access in a .7 	similarly configured (i.e. number cpu) UBMA* Starfire.n   				Robe  9 * Uniformly Bad Memory Access - Apologies to Aaron Spink.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:38:20 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking + Message-ID: <3BD43D6C.D6785ED3@bigfoot.com>o  F I think it's about credibility.  I'm sure you've heard the term "goingF out of style".  Well this mimmicks the machinations of standard CompaqG operating procedure when they are about to kill something (VMS port?). oD They make sure to lie enough to boost or maintain short-term revenueD just before the murder.  I wonder what they gave old Dave to write aG fluff article like this one?  And if your colleagues read this article, E and are even partially convinced, and it turns out to be the big pusheG before the VMS--->Itanium bloodletting, then YOU lose credibility along 2 with Compaq, because YOU should have known better.   HM   john nixon wrote:e > L > As ususal, you are much more eloquent, informed and well researched than I > am.  >  > However, you are wrong.o > K > This kind of article is exactly the kind we need.  Comments such as yoursnN > and J.F.'s do not help worth a twit.  For years, the complaint was that  VMSL > was technically the best, but they could not buy a positive comment in theJ > press.  Here we get positive comments, and you blast them.  Who the hellL > cares if  he exagerated (or was just plain wrong) when he said memory willM > be 300 times faster.  Articles like this help me get VMS projects approved.DN > The more VMS projects that get approved, the more likely it will be for HPAQL > to take notice and keep investing in VMS. Since we do know that VMS is theN > best OS for many things,  once it is installed, it will work well and do theK > job.  Nobody is going to come back and ask me if the memory is really 300  > times faster.- > M > Other people from my company read this newsgroup as well.  All the negativelJ > comments are taken right back to their managers.  Is it no wonder I haveN > trouble getting things done. You are perpetuating a self fulfiling prophesy. > N > If I were that author and I read your comments, I would not attempt to writeH > a follow-up, unless it was to point out what a bunch of self-righteous > tech-weenies VMS bigots are. > N > How many times have we heard the phrase "It's the marketing, stupid".    YouK > did mention at the end that it is nice to see VMS mentioned, but trashingi? > the whole article negates any positive that can come from it.o > L > (I thi nk I have had too much coffee this morning,    I have worked on VMSN > since 1981. (PDP's prior to that). I spent this weekend working on promotingK > VMS in my Company. It pains me to see you keep complaining about everyone0* > that says anything good or bad about it. > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message5= > news:HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...t > >a6 > > Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> wrote in message= > > news:5.1.0.14.2.20011022050653.0432eaf0@mail.rbnsn.com...r > > >aM > > > This is a very interesting article that came via the ZDNet Tech update:  > > 3 > > 'Interesting' is I suppose one applicable term.r > >oJ > > VMS 'marketing director' Bob Blatz may get points for uncharacteristic > zealJ > > for describing the over-400,000-strong/over-10,000,000-user VMS system > base,oM > > but ISTR Terry having indicated that this figure may be a bit out of dateC > byN > > now.  I'd be less suspicious if the rest of the article didn't read like aM > > freshman marketeer's output (which hardly reflects well upon the researchoL > > abilities of the 'journalist', but standards in that area are admittedly > lowe > > these days). > >tL > > The statement that "a detailed road map, stretching into the foreseeableM > > future, addresses the concerns of current customers while keeping OpenVMSh > inG > > the horse race against other highly scalable and available big irondE > > front-runners" neither indicates any understanding of recent (andeL > > regrettably frequent) Compaq perfidies in such future commitments nor of > thesK > > level of development required to stay current in this industry, and the)I > > reporter's confusion over the nature of what was sold to Intel hardlyIE > > increases one's appreciation of his factual acquaintance with thes > situation. > >DN > > Gorham's comments tend to reinforce my previous suspicions (based first onK > > his absurd statements to Alphaman just after the Intel deal and then ond > theaI > > slides from his CETS presentation) that he's a weenie who's not to beiM > > trusted.  Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to state K > > that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'seE > > offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.a > >aL > > And the statement "Intel is clearly beginning to level the playing field > forhK > > almost all OS contenders" in a column with the title 'Reality Check' is-J > > farcical.  The members of the Itanium architecture that can compete inG > > absolute performance in server-style environments (as distinct fromAK > > specialized technical areas where SPECfp performance is more applicablen > thanI > > SPECint) with POWER4 (and even EV7 and PA-RISC, with their dead-ended K > > architectures) on the high end, existing x86 implementations on the lowm > end,K > > and AMD's Hammer across the board have not yet appeared on Intel's roadn > mapsJ > > let alone been designed.  And if *price*-performance is the criterion, > > Itanium looks even worse.k > >DH > > It's nice to see VMS mentioned at all, and in a positive way, in the > press.L > > But it's difficult to imagine that this article reflects any substantive* > > change in its lingering-death warrant. > >e
 > > - bill > >. > >, > >t > >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:10:40 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingd> Message-ID: <kqYA7.143840$vq.33468755@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in messageC% news:3BD43D6C.D6785ED3@bigfoot.com...tH > I think it's about credibility.  I'm sure you've heard the term "goingH > out of style".  Well this mimmicks the machinations of standard CompaqH > operating procedure when they are about to kill something (VMS port?).  K When did the news of the cancellation of the VMS port to IPF come out? Must  have missed that one.5  F > They make sure to lie enough to boost or maintain short-term revenueF > just before the murder.  I wonder what they gave old Dave to write aI > fluff article like this one?  And if your colleagues read this article,eG > and are even partially convinced, and it turns out to be the big pushbI > before the VMS--->Itanium bloodletting, then YOU lose credibility alongn4 > with Compaq, because YOU should have known better. >   K If Compaq scuttles VMS, the game is over. What would replace all that juicyf5 high-margin revenue? Windoze? Linux? The PocketPC OS?t  K Compaq may do some Stupid Things (and indeed they have done so) but I doubti6 that they've called in Doc Kevorkian to deal with VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:53:54 -0400g2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinglL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2210011353550001@user-2ivea8a.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill<% Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:e    A > Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to state I > that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'ssC > offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.B    2 But that isn't quite what the article said, is it?  C "Somewhere in the 2004 timeframe, Compaq will ship 64-processor and,F perhaps 128-processor Alpha systems based on the EV7 processor family.F Code-named "Marvel," these are, Gorham says, "big honkin' systems withI lots of memory" that are very scalable, very modular, and very fast, witheE memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today's offerings."r  H He said EV7 processor _family_, not EV7.  That probably means the future$ EV79, or whatever they will call it.  J He also talked about 64- or128-CPU systems 3 years or so in the future.  II think there is plenty of room to speed up the entire memory subsystem.  IrG don't have the specs handy, but perhaps someone has numbers available. eI What is the maximum per-CPU memory bandwidth on today's EV7 chips, in thepF ideal situation where the memory subsystem has tons of cache and neverF makes the CPU wait?  How much better will EV79 be?  Now multiply theseI numbers by 64 or 128.  I can imagine improvements in memory throughput bycJ factors of 2 to 4 in _several_ areas -- perhaps an improvement of 10 to 201 times overall in 3 years, compared to the GS-320.n  H If he meant aggregate, system-wide memory bandwidth, not per-word accessG speed, I guess there will be a large improvment over the current GS-320aI systems.  Should a VP be able to explain the difference between speed anda# bandwidth?  Well, it would be nice.i  G At first I thought he might have meant 300 to 500 _percent_ faster thanaE now, but that seems too pessimistic to me.  300 to 500 _times_ faster  seems wrong.E Gorham's statement does need more explanation.  But I don't think you  represented it quite fairly.  G Since you sneer at Gorham's estimate as reported, what is your estimatep, for alpha server memory performance in 2004?   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:34:52 -0400e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>a= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disks$ Message-ID: <3bd458f7$1@news.si.com>  E >I suppose they could do it differently on VAX, but on Alpha there iscE >a single RMS image for both normal and extended file specifications.u& >That which gets changed, gets broken.  @ If it's not broken on an Alpha, why would it be broken on a VAX? --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com1A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comC= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent7< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:05:29 GMTe3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>w$ Subject: Re: DECNET ping equivalent?/ Message-ID: <3BD43520.99F0284A@cableinet.co.uk>y   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > 7 > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:u > H > > but does it reach out and "touch" the requested node like ping does?F > > Maybe I am wrong and it does, can't test at the moment as I am VMS
 > > deprived.e > D > > Anyway, you don't get packet loss figures like you do with ping. > 
 > OK then," > $ mc ncp sho node <foo> counters > if you will. > @ > When the node come up, it hellos the adjacent nodes. It or oneE > of its adjacent nodes MUST be a router except in the case of a fullaB > adjacent net. So the status is propergated via the routing info. > 4 > This is a real network, 'reachable' is for real ;)  < OK, I was being unduly pedantic and I am sorry. Steve Spires@ I believe did post about DTS and counters earlier in the thread.  ? I do fondly remember the days when once you go the MAIL> promptyE back after a send you knew the mail had been delivered to the remote t mailbox over DECNET.   -- e Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  g  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of ,! my employers or service provider.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:34:30 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n Subject: Re: ECC1 Message-ID: <i1XA7.755$RL6.8352@news.cpqcorp.net>i  F Generally systems VMS runs on have ECC with single bit correction, andK multi-bit detection.  Most systems will crash on a "hard" double bit error. H We do have memory scrubbing logic.  I don't remember if the 8600 had theD code in it to attempt to fail a process, or if it was just the 9000.  I We will be adding an indictment capability where the Compaq Analyze stuff K will tell us that a page is getting too many correctble errors, and we will E mark the page as bad for reboot, and remove it (if possible) from the  running system.I  < "Most" PC's use simple parity detection, without correction.      ? Andy Moskal wrote in message <3BD0A992.B351D471@zk3.dec.com>...eH >Hey Gary... what do you think of the following.   Didn't 8600 have some >double bit error recovery?i >i >-Andy >  >i9 >Excuse me?  What in the heck are you trying to say here?e >oI >The only "detectable" CPU "failure" that I know of is correctable bcachel >eI >errors, which indicate a failing bcache.  Any error that causes a CPU tor >notH >work correctly, or to simply stop executing, are generally catestrophic >onaE >Alpha - or on Itanium.  Even if the CPU failure doesn't take down or  >hangsG >the entire system, the entire system MUST be brought down, because yout >haveh@ >no way of knowing what damage the failed CPU may be doing (like >corruptingu	 >things).g > F >Defective memory WILL crash a system if it is an uncorrectable memory >errorG >on VAX, and on Alpha, and on Itanium.  The ONLY case where this is notn >true E >is the VAX 9000, which has special VMS logic to try and run down thet >failediF >address, and see if it can simply shoot a process, rather than crash. >uB >Alpha systems with ECC memory survive single bit errors.  So will	 >Itanium. D >You can build a Alpha system or a Itanium system with Parity memory >insteadH >of ECC - in which case the system will crash on a simgle bit error.  It >isoB >pretty unlikely you will ever see this on any server from Compaq. >,E >In fact, memory systems are being designed with Raid-5 technology tor >surviveA >multi-bit errors - somethig needed when you see max memory sizesm >reaching >  >1TB.  >t   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 18:56:44 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: ECCH Message-ID: <y47ktn1ulv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:c  K > We will be adding an indictment capability where the Compaq Analyze stuffPM > will tell us that a page is getting too many correctble errors, and we willcG > mark the page as bad for reboot, and remove it (if possible) from the  > running system.r  I The only case where you cannot are those parts of the page tables and thed? interrupt vectors that have to be physically contiguous, right?    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:03:59 -0400w5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t Subject: Re: ECC1 Message-ID: <alYA7.772$RL6.8507@news.cpqcorp.net>t  H Can't remove a page that is physically locked in memory, say by a device' driver, or that someone has PFN mapped.     $ Jan Vorbrueggen wrote in message ...8 >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >GL >> We will be adding an indictment capability where the Compaq Analyze stuffI >> will tell us that a page is getting too many correctble errors, and we  willH >> mark the page as bad for reboot, and remove it (if possible) from the >> running system. >eJ >The only case where you cannot are those parts of the page tables and the@ >interrupt vectors that have to be physically contiguous, right? >. > Jan    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:11:26 -0400"' From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com>t. Subject: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011022050653.0432eaf0@mail.rbnsn.com>e  G This is a very interesting article that came via the ZDNet Tech update:p    C >*** Welcome to ZDNet's Tech Update Today for October 22, 2001. ***n   [snip out ads...]t     >IN THIS ISSUE:p >s >REALITY CHECK# >* Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinga >s   [snip rest of TOC]   >REALITY CHECK >y! >Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge >i< >It's scalable, reliable, and enterprise ready. And with the> >move to Intel platforms, OpenVMS will become more affordable,; >too. David retracts his obituary of Compaq's venerable OS.m* >http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?154076:1596553   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:35:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h2 Subject: Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking, Message-ID: <3BD3E847.9FFBE03A@videotron.ca>   Ken Robinson wrote:e> > >It's scalable, reliable, and enterprise ready. And with the@ > >move to Intel platforms, OpenVMS will become more affordable,= > >too. David retracts his obituary of Compaq's venerable OS.r, > >http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?154076:1596553  L The problem with this article is that it is tainted by an enthousiastic talkE with the VMS grunts at the lower levels and is not supported by equalbJ "positive support" from the true decision makers at the high end of HP and Compaq (Winkler and up).  N Gorham and friends can say what they want, but when it comes down to it, it isM what Carly, Curly that make the big decisions based on advise from folks suchw as Winkler.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:25:18 +0010c% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aul2 Subject: Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking5 Message-ID: <01K9T9WS2KEQ006OCC@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>y   Hey, thanks Ken,  M This is good reading.  When you mentioned Dave, I thought at first you meant   our revered Mr. Mathog.e  M I've sent a quick email to Mr. Berlind thanking him for his positive support.t   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:06:40 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e2 Subject: Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking/ Message-ID: <tt8dg2179ja177@news.supernews.com>o  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BD3E847.9FFBE03A@videotron.ca... > Ken Robinson wrote:g@ > > >It's scalable, reliable, and enterprise ready. And with theB > > >move to Intel platforms, OpenVMS will become more affordable,? > > >too. David retracts his obituary of Compaq's venerable OS.I. > > >http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?154076:1596553 > I > The problem with this article is that it is tainted by an enthousiastich talkG > with the VMS grunts at the lower levels and is not supported by equaleL > "positive support" from the true decision makers at the high end of HP and > Compaq (Winkler and up). >eJ > Gorham and friends can say what they want, but when it comes down to it, it is J > what Carly, Curly that make the big decisions based on advise from folks such
 > as Winkler.9  L You don't think Carly and Curly will listen to what a VP has to say?  Why do you think they made him a VP?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:26:13 -0400i( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>2 Subject: Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking+ Message-ID: <3BD43A95.47A04453@bigfoot.com>    John Vottero wrote:r > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3BD3E847.9FFBE03A@videotron.ca... > > Ken Robinson wrote:aB > > > >It's scalable, reliable, and enterprise ready. And with theD > > > >move to Intel platforms, OpenVMS will become more affordable,A > > > >too. David retracts his obituary of Compaq's venerable OS.e0 > > > >http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?154076:1596553 > >MK > > The problem with this article is that it is tainted by an enthousiasticb > talkI > > with the VMS grunts at the lower levels and is not supported by equaliN > > "positive support" from the true decision makers at the high end of HP and > > Compaq (Winkler and up). > >eL > > Gorham and friends can say what they want, but when it comes down to it, > it issL > > what Carly, Curly that make the big decisions based on advise from folks > such > > as Winkler.r > N > You don't think Carly and Curly will listen to what a VP has to say?  Why do > you think they made him a VP?e  E The same reason a lot of other clueless CEO's make other people theirtC VP's-- Because they are "yes-men" who do not oppose them.  The same H reason a lot of people in this industry get promoted--because they don't
 say anything.    HM   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 09:37:50 -0700# From: torpeman@hotmail.com (Benito)a& Subject: How know last system restart?= Message-ID: <cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com>    Hello,  E Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, the $ VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2.   Can anybody help me.   Thanks & Regards.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:52:09 +0100m( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?) Message-ID: <3BD44EB9.28654809@127.0.0.1>'  
 Benito wrote:"G > Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, theh& > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2. >  > Can anybody help me.  H Welcome to VMS. DCL can help with this, not sure of your background, butF consider this command is 'peeking' a memory location. The WRITE should7 be self explanatory, and SYS$OUTPUT is, where to write.v  ' $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("BOOTTIME")e  ) Loads more fun ones where this came from.  -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:56:37 +0200x2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?G Message-ID: <3bd44e35$0$18120$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>*  6 "Benito" <torpeman@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag7 news:cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com...d > Hello, >eG > Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, thel& > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2. >t > Can anybody help me. >  > Thanks & Regards..   Hi!    There are two easy ways:  L 1.) if you have accounting enabled a "acc/fu/type=sysinit" will give you all rebootssK 2.) if not, do a "show system". you will have the uptime in the first line.-1 A little calculation will give you the boot-time.e   Regardsy   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:02:32 -0400m- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>r* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?+ Message-ID: <sbd418ef.039@AAASMTA.aaas.org>s  J I don't think VMS has anything like Unix uptime, but you can look at the =L top of SHOW SYS to see how long the system has been up. You can also check =K the date on the most currect SYS$STARTUP:OPERATOR.LOG (assuming it hasn't =sJ been rotated). The first entry in that should have the date and time the = system came up.   < >>> Benito <torpeman@hotmail.com> 10/22/2001 12:37:50 PM >>> Hello,  E I m new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, thee$ VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2.   Can anybody help me.   Thanks & Regards.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:06:27 +0200a= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>u* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?) Message-ID: <3BD45213.DE0EB860@dummy.com>i   On way :  ' $ write sys$output f$getsyi("BOOTTIME")h 25-JAN-2001 08:57:36.00K $    Jan-Erik Sderholm.   
 Benito wrote:- >  > Hello, > G > Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, theR& > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2. >  > Can anybody help me. >  > Thanks & Regards.0   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 01 10:18:31 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com.* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?( Message-ID: <zKtBRA0aMirb@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com>,h&  torpeman@hotmail.com (Benito) writes: > Hello, > G > Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, thet& > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2. >  > Can anybody help me. >  > Thanks & Regards.a  ' $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:29:19 -0700m# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>"* Subject: RE: How know last system restart?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHKDHAA.tom@kednos.com>e  * Now, if I wanted to define in my login.com  ? uptime=3D=3D the below text, how do I escape the double quotes?    > -----Original Message-----@ > From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com]) > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 11:19 AMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comf, > Subject: Re: How know last system restart? >r >o? > In article <cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com>,l( >  torpeman@hotmail.com (Benito) writes:
 > > Hello, > >'L > > I=B4m new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, the=  ( > > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2. > >t > > Can anybody help me. > >t > > Thanks & Regards.1 > ) > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")g >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:50:06 -0400t- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> * Subject: RE: How know last system restart?+ Message-ID: <sbd4241b.083@AAASMTA.aaas.org>e  1 LOL - I just spent 10 minutes screwing with that.c  8 $UPTIME =3D=3D "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI(""BOOTTIME"")"  ; >>> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 10/22/2001 1:29:19 PM >>>i* Now, if I wanted to define in my login.com  ? uptime=3D=3D the below text, how do I escape the double quotes?m   > -----Original Message-----C > From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com]=20.) > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 11:19 AMi > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com=20, > Subject: Re: How know last system restart? >m >p? > In article <cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com>,i( >  torpeman@hotmail.com (Benito) writes:
 > > Hello, > >-I > > I m new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, thet( > > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2. > >R > > Can anybody help me. > >S > > Thanks & Regards.e >g) > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")e >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:47:26 GMTm  From: "mhr" <mreilly36@home.com> Subject: re:HP4100N ; Message-ID: <2kWA7.13480$Mn1.738255@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com>o  J Anyone using HP4100N printer overTCPIP with postscript capabiity via DCPS?0 which volume of DCPS with VMS(axp)7.2-1. Thanks.3                                                 mhr.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:40:16 +0200 , From: Theo Jakobus <Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> Subject: Re: HP4100N) Message-ID: <3BD43DE0.8010407@iaf.fhg.de>y  
 mhr wrote:  L > Anyone using HP4100N printer overTCPIP with postscript capabiity via DCPS?2 > which volume of DCPS with VMS(axp)7.2-1. Thanks.5 >                                                 mhrb >    yes!  0 DCPS license is now part of the OpenVMS license.: Start with: http://www.compaq.com/info/SP4415/SP4415PF.PDF  ( In SYS$STARTUP:DCPS$STARTUP.COM we have:E $ DEFINE /EXECUTIVE_MODE /SYSTEM DCPS$HP_POST_C129_TCPIP_NO_SYNC TRUEt% $ @sys$startup:dcps$execution_queue -n:      HP_POST_C129_TCPIP -      ! P1 - Execution queue nameM      IP_RawTCP/153.96.129.102:9100 - ! P2 - Interconnect protocol/device namehC      DCPS_LIB -                ! P3 - Logical name for library(ies)s>      "DATA=AUTO" -             ! P4 - Default queue parameters>      "/NOSEPARATE" -           ! P5 - Default queue qualifiersN      "" -                      ! P6 - Communication speed(serial devices only)<      "" -                      ! P7 - Device characteristics3      ""                        ! P8 - Verify on/off  $f     Regards,   -- y  ; ***********************************************************w; *                                                         *C; *  Theo Jakobus                                           *s; *  Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Angewandte Festkoerperphysik  *e; *  Tullastr. 72                                           *-; *  D-79108 Freiburg                                       *i; *  Germany                                                *s; *  Phone:   +49-(0)761-5159-325                           *y; *  FAX :    +49-(0)761-5159-200                           *u; *  e-mail:  Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de                       *e; *  http://www.iaf.fhg.de                                  *e; *                                                         *c; ***********************************************************c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:07:38 -0400i0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: HP4100N; Message-ID: <221020011207386151%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>y  6 In article <3BD43DE0.8010407@iaf.fhg.de>, Theo Jakobus  <Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> wrote:   > mhr wrote: > N > > Anyone using HP4100N printer overTCPIP with postscript capabiity via DCPS?, > > which volume of DCPS with VMS(axp)7.2-1. >e > yes! > 2 > DCPS license is now part of the OpenVMS license.< > Start with: http://www.compaq.com/info/SP4415/SP4415PF.PDF > * > In SYS$STARTUP:DCPS$STARTUP.COM we have:G > $ DEFINE /EXECUTIVE_MODE /SYSTEM DCPS$HP_POST_C129_TCPIP_NO_SYNC TRUEn  E The HP LaserJet 4100 printer is not yet officially supported by DCPS,hC although as Theo notes it does work.  If you want tray selection tok? work, you'll want to follow the instructions in the OpenVMS FAQ   :    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/faq_frames/faq.htm  F section MGMT51, to fiddle with your device control libraries and queue< setup.  Use the LPS$$HPLASERJET4000_* modules to replace the LPS$$UNRECOGNIZED_* modules.   Paul   -- t  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringn   Compaq Computer Corporationc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:20:23 GMT $ From: Scam Report <dogshit@bama.com>, Subject: Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master4 Message-ID: <Xns9142553C0BB8DNAACP1369@24.9.139.141>    Don't choke on your own swill...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:51:47 -0400 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: I am changing jobsr1 Message-ID: <U%YA7.776$RL6.8375@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dear Newsgroup,b  L I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As of last week I amL now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and no longer part of the OpenVMS Marketing group.  J I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing as before, but I just wanted to let you knowc  
 Warm Regards,g   Suey   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:39:27 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: It's Friday) Message-ID: <3BD3E94F.ACB3D535@127.0.0.1>l   Hans Vlems wrote:l= > I'd say he has VMS well integrated into his family life....w > ; > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagel  / > Do you have wife, children, mother, dogs ????h  > Dont you go out to the movie ?6 > Dont you go out to walk in the park or ride a bike ? > # > My God.... you are VMS addicted !n  D Yes I have a wife, and a child of 2 who I let "use" my computer (sheD likes the mouse clicking and some CDroms). When she is old enough to= understand I will teach her the ways of VMS, a few years yet.   % We have two cats, we live with them! c+ Is shopping counted as a leisure activity? a Addicted to VMS? Maybe!    -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:48:33 +0200t& From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: Linker64 producing un-INSTALLable images?* Message-ID: <3BD3EB71.8D3CCD9E@compaq.com>   Hi,o  > My name is Guy Peleg and I ther Linker developer. LINKER64 had< some interesting "features" in it. LINKER64.EXE and LINK.EXED were merged in V7.3 to one LINK.EXE image. Many bugs have been fixed4 in V7.3 and even more are fixed in VMS73_LINKER kit.  < So try V7.3 (don't look for LINKER64.EXE) if this won't help$ escalate through the support center.   GuyM   Shane Smith wrote:  G > Hi folks, it's the return of the Shane. I'm not regularly surfing thei* > group again yet, but I'm back in action. >ZF > I have run into something rather odd. We have a fairly large programC > that gets linked, and is normally installed with /read, /head and H > /share. This works for us on 6.2 and 7.2.. One of our customers, who'sI > on 7.2 and has installed the ADB073 kit including the LINKER64 package,cJ > links it with exactly the same link options. For him it puts some psectsG > in P2 space, causing the INSTALL utility to throw it out with the (asrI > far as I can see) undocumented error NOINST64BIT. Unfortunately because D > of his environment he has to link it himself, and when he bypasses? > LINK64 and uses LINK the NOINST64BIT goes away but he gets anhA > inexplicable subscript out of range out of the resulting image.3 >EJ > There are only a few instructions in the OPT file relating to the psectsI > in question, of the form PSECT={psect_name},SOLITARY. (These predate my G > arrival here, but apparently they're there for alignment purposes.) IaJ > figure this has to have something to do with it. However, I haven't beenJ > able to track down any documentation on LINK64 to see how it treats them. > or if there's a way to change the behaviour. >tE > Does anyone know anything that might help me find the solution? Cani? > anyone point me to the right documentation, or send it to me?c >s > Shaneh >w >  #####	 > #-O-O-#s	 > #  L  #, >  #===# >   ###    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:24:39 -0700l$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>6 Subject: Re: Linker64 producing un-INSTALLable images?0 Message-ID: <01C15ADB.810EC110@sulfer.icius.com>  G Thanks very much Guy. I appreciate your taking the time to help me out..G It's also nice to hear from an unfamiliar Compaq name here - welcome to  the group, Guy.t   Shaneu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:00:28 GMTi+ From: BeanCounter <loopback@mailserver.net> / Subject: Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy 5 Message-ID: <Xns91425C080DD60BC99FUKU23@24.9.139.141>o  H XP = Xceedingly Pricey...  Just another never-to-be-finished throw-away I product.  After the aggravation we had (still have...) with the Office2K pI line, we're going to hold off on XP anything.  The licensing alone would .> cost us more than our entire Win9X/NTWS Office97 deployment.    0 Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in % news:87wv28tjrn.fsf@prep.synonet.com:l  3 > "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net> writes:e > = >> > > > We shouldn't have to ask them, we should be told, by  >> > > > COmpaq/HP.  > G >> > > Divulging customer confidences is not the way to keep customers.t > F > A luverlyy bit of case law here is, if you use a customer reference,B > it must be a full and non-misleading disclosure.  So if you usedD > a site that migrated back, you would have to say so or be done for% > 'misleading and deceptive conduct'.t > @ > BTW, folks may be interested in the articles on TheRegister orB > over at theinquirer (and probably at /. and most everywhere elseD > by now) about a Finish city chocking at the cost of XP and looking > at StarOffice. >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 11:21:25 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>- Subject: Re: Mitnick UncagedH Message-ID: <y41yjw58tm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  0 Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:  H > But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If its on computer,I > its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it to yourself, is secure -lA > one can merely raise the level of effort required to obtain it.f  M Using a filesystem that encrypts everything with a sufficiently large RSA/... K key, and the key or passphrase to it in your head, will raise that level to M requiring torture of the owner. At that point, any other method is as or lessa secure.p   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:12:25 +0100q/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>c Subject: re: Mitnick Uncaged6 Message-ID: <00A03E72.E48FA7A1.2@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   > M > > Since the Govt. probably can read whatever it chooses, I simply make it a H > > point to have nothing to hide. Not that I do in the first place. ;-} > A > Everyone has something to hide.  You just might not realize it.r  D In which case you presumably rate stego more highly than crypto? ;-)   	Yours,n
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   s  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:39:34 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>H Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged< Message-ID: <howard-51D93D.08393422102001@enews.newsguy.com>  6 In article <00A03E72.E48FA7A1.2@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>,1  Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:i  F > In which case you presumably rate stego more highly than crypto? ;-)  . Why not do both?  Encrypt first, then hide it. -- 0 Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:07:12 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged) Message-ID: <3BD419FF.F67D0FB9@127.0.0.1>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  > > Howard S Shubs wrote:s > >>J > > But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If its on computer,K > > its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it to yourself, is secure -iI > > one can merely raise the level of effort required to obtain it.  EvenrL > > banks are not secure - they simply raise the level of effort required to: > > break-in beyond what most people are willing to exert.  E I have a computer security book. It says at the beginning there is nokH such thing as computer security. I like this book. It addresses risk and$ how to mitigate, there are no cures. This therefore is very true.  nA > Putting something on a computer is not significantly more risky9? > than putting it into a notebook.  Some things are too complexn > to memorize. > C > Networking that computer to the outside world, on the other hand,  > introduces a lot of risk.   F Again I agree with the first para, but the second, in most cases, does% not necessarily introduce more risk. y  C If you have the console, physical access, kiss bye bye to security. H Datacentre systems have an advantage that physical security measures canH be put in place, card keys, security guards, etc. This would not preventC confident and clever imposters (stolen, dupicated IDs) but only thej> systems in place could protect a computer in such a situation.  G When you say notebook, what do you mean? The sort that is operated by ai@ pencil and pages turned by hand, or a portable electronic rodent@ controlled computer? (Doesn't matter, if it was intentional your wordplay was nice.)t  C Either have the same risk, if you get physical access. Lets say yourE wrote it down in some fancy cipher, or used an electronic equivilent. E How long would it take a machine to decode machine data, or break the > written code by hand from those stolen papers? Then again, theE protection offered only has to match or exceed the useful life of the  data.s  A (If you're using PGP you can make it harder ensuring your private0? keyring is nowhere near the encrypted data, but leave a keyringnG protected by a simple password/phrase, then you're almost defeating the 9 power of encryption and reducing it to a simple password)u  H Lets consider confidential paper file in a filing cabinet, gain physical access, that is it.-  G I don't think you can use an argument about knowing what you are doing,tG if you consider a theif highly trained to evade physical security, or adH hacker trained in knowing how to get into a system, if that indeed means? getting physical access, then someone is there to get the data.j  D Heck if someone is determined enough they could do a ram raid on theH side of the datacentre, grab the disk volumes you need and fit them intoB a prepared operating system to recover the data. Maybe if it's notE underground, or significantly overground, but determination may breedO ingenuity. r  F In summary, preventing people getting their hands on whatever is beingG physically protected is probably the most important in security. People G have the threat of life being taken from them in extreme cases, and thec bank above is an example.   C Turning to networks, a system using encrypted data, securely lockednG away. It is difficult to  prevent 'inside' jobs, you'd hope vetting andeH interviewing would save you. From an external point of view if there areH no holes in system security, then what is to stop someone being taken at* gunpoint and forced to reveal a password?   H Alright, a little extreme. Most operating systems employ a good passwordH encryption system, but TELNET and FTP without kerberos allows plain textF to fly between LAN sniffers. Less complicated maybe stealing somethingG else that is password protected and discover that password, how many ofMH us truly use different and unrelated password for all password protected systems?  E And finally, console security, nice little IP capable terminal server-F with break enabed console access, perhaps while you're puzzing over anF odd crash dump, someone has opened a door so they can steal your data. Console on a plate.g  F But to throw in some hope, stealth plays a large part in protection. AA notebook case is an advertisement, so, don't use a notebook case.O  E VMS has secondary passwords, the correct use is for two persons to beiE present in unlocking access to data, but you're relying on overridingt accounts being secure also.l  F I'm sorry for being doom and gloomy, but security is only as strong asB the weakest link. Fitting good locks and bolts to a door with weak( hinges may lull you into false security.  G I know I'm probably preaching to the converted, but I'd rather you toldbB me to stop waffling rather than you wake up to discover a security& breach. Nice thread, threw my 0.02 in.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:34:41 -0400.* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Mitnick Uncaged- Message-ID: <0033000039085381000002L012*@MHS>a  A =0AOne of my favorite quotes on the subject is by Winn Schwartau:   H "Anyone who says their system is bulletproof is either lying or stupid.= "m   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh( > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 9:25 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: RE: Mitnick Uncaged >, >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >  > > > Howard S Shubs wrote:f > > >>? > > > But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If itsy > on computer,7 > > > its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it tot > yourself, is secure -h: > > > one can merely raise the level of effort required to > obtain it.  Even; > > > banks are not secure - they simply raise the level oft > effort required to< > > > break-in beyond what most people are willing to exert. > H > I have a computer security book. It says at the beginning there is no=  7 > such thing as computer security. I like this book. It$ > addresses risk and& > how to mitigate, there are no cures. > This therefore is very true. >3C > > Putting something on a computer is not significantly more riskyPA > > than putting it into a notebook.  Some things are too complex" > > to memorize. > > E > > Networking that computer to the outside world, on the other hand,  > > introduces a lot of risk." > H > Again I agree with the first para, but the second, in most cases, doe= s & > not necessarily introduce more risk. >tE > If you have the console, physical access, kiss bye bye to security. = > Datacentre systems have an advantage that physical security* > measures can> > be put in place, card keys, security guards, etc. This would
 > not prevent E > confident and clever imposters (stolen, dupicated IDs) but only thee@ > systems in place could protect a computer in such a situation. > ; > When you say notebook, what do you mean? The sort that is  > operated by a B > pencil and pages turned by hand, or a portable electronic rodentB > controlled computer? (Doesn't matter, if it was intentional your > wordplay was nice.)5 >0E > Either have the same risk, if you get physical access. Lets say you H > wrote it down in some fancy cipher, or used an electronic equivilent.=  H > How long would it take a machine to decode machine data, or break the=  @ > written code by hand from those stolen papers? Then again, theH > protection offered only has to match or exceed the useful life of the=   > data.  >uC > (If you're using PGP you can make it harder ensuring your private1A > keyring is nowhere near the encrypted data, but leave a keyring4; > protected by a simple password/phrase, then you're almost: > defeating the ; > power of encryption and reducing it to a simple password)t >p< > Lets consider confidential paper file in a filing cabinet, > gain physical  > access, that is it.a >o> > I don't think you can use an argument about knowing what you > are doing,: > if you consider a theif highly trained to evade physical > security, or a= > hacker trained in knowing how to get into a system, if thats > indeed meansA > getting physical access, then someone is there to get the data.s > F > Heck if someone is determined enough they could do a ram raid on the< > side of the datacentre, grab the disk volumes you need and > fit them into/D > a prepared operating system to recover the data. Maybe if it's notH > underground, or significantly overground, but determination may breed=   > ingenuity. >RH > In summary, preventing people getting their hands on whatever is bein= g 8 > physically protected is probably the most important in > security. People: > have the threat of life being taken from them in extreme > cases, and the > bank above is an example.t > E > Turning to networks, a system using encrypted data, securely lockedy= > away. It is difficult to  prevent 'inside' jobs, you'd hope,
 > vetting and:= > interviewing would save you. From an external point of view> > if there are; > no holes in system security, then what is to stop someonen > being taken at+ > gunpoint and forced to reveal a password?I > < > Alright, a little extreme. Most operating systems employ a > good passwordr? > encryption system, but TELNET and FTP without kerberos allows  > plain textH > to fly between LAN sniffers. Less complicated maybe stealing somethin= go= > else that is password protected and discover that password,-
 > how many ofa7 > us truly use different and unrelated password for alln > password protected
 > systems? >'H > And finally, console security, nice little IP capable terminal server=  H > with break enabed console access, perhaps while you're puzzing over a= naH > odd crash dump, someone has opened a door so they can steal your data= .l > Console on a plate.h > H > But to throw in some hope, stealth plays a large part in protection. = A C > notebook case is an advertisement, so, don't use a notebook case.f >aH > VMS has secondary passwords, the correct use is for two persons to be=  H > present in unlocking access to data, but you're relying on overriding=   > accounts being secure also.  >eH > I'm sorry for being doom and gloomy, but security is only as strong a= stD > the weakest link. Fitting good locks and bolts to a door with weak* > hinges may lull you into false security. >-9 > I know I'm probably preaching to the converted, but I'd0 > rather you told D > me to stop waffling rather than you wake up to discover a security( > breach. Nice thread, threw my 0.02 in. >a > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot com4 >=   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 08:53:53 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged3 Message-ID: <oWnnV8gZ7GiB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3BD419FF.F67D0FB9@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  B >> Putting something on a computer is not significantly more risky@ >> than putting it into a notebook.  Some things are too complex >> to memorize.n >> hD >> Networking that computer to the outside world, on the other hand, >> introduces a lot of risk. > H > Again I agree with the first para, but the second, in most cases, does' > not necessarily introduce more risk. 7  ? There is no network security nearly so effective as an air gap.   E > If you have the console, physical access, kiss bye bye to security.eJ > Datacentre systems have an advantage that physical security measures canJ > be put in place, card keys, security guards, etc. This would not preventE > confident and clever imposters (stolen, dupicated IDs) but only theI@ > systems in place could protect a computer in such a situation.  ? Whatever physical security measures you introduce, they are nots> any less effective for a computer than for a notebook in a the same physical location._  * > When you say notebook, what do you mean?  & A notebook is something made of paper.- Are you too young to remember notebooks ? :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:59:29 +0100d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged) Message-ID: <3BD43451.8C37D8D8@127.0.0.1>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:A > There is no network security nearly so effective as an air gap.m  A Agreed, but I'd add that it may be no more of a guarantee to data B security, and the network protection could be better than physical protection.   B Here's an example. In a bank that I use occasionally, it was beingD refurbished a little while ago, and, I guess to foster good customerF relations during the building work, a nice helpful notice board sayingG sorry for the inconvenience, but look at the plans of what it will lookaG like when it's finished, and a nice copy of the architects work, public-E areas and 'secure' areas. This, on public view, would allow potentialnF weaknesses to be examined and exploited. Useless air gap. (I did speakA with the manager expressing my concerns, and it was removed quiteo	 rapidly).e  A > Whatever physical security measures you introduce, they are notd@ > any less effective for a computer than for a notebook in a the > same physical location.h  & Spot on Larry, hadn't considered that.  C However, cynically, I could wheel a cabinet out and claim me and my.E crooked friend are repairing this refrigerator, where a notebook does.D not often resemble such a humble appliance. How many security guards recognise a GS80 at 25 yards?d  E "Falcon and the snowman" is a fine film, not only for the Pat Metheny>@ soundtrack, but based on a true story showed how the air gap wasG breached. I also like the "Mission Impossible" TV series, 60 minutes ofe imaginitive scheming.f  F Another true story - at a certain place I won't confirm or deny I everG worked, two youngish gents entered site in their vehicle and parked up.vG They were challenged by security, not for their ID's but where they hadg; parked. They moved the car and carried on in. What air gap?e  F I guess what I'm trying to say nothing is guaranteed. Air gaps have to be watertight.  , > > When you say notebook, what do you mean? > ( > A notebook is something made of paper./ > Are you too young to remember notebooks ? :-)a  D I was once told by my chemistry teacher that a spider with inky legsF could write better than me. My notebook had a number of burn marks and3 chemical stains, not entirely innocently obtained. f -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 09:00:33 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)t Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged, Message-ID: <URP8WpoVumTS@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  / In article <3BD388CD.C361C1D3@cablespeed.com>, t3    Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:o > H > I suspect that with the gov't, the level may be high indeed.  However,E > 2048 or 4096 bit RSA encryption of absolute garbage might keep them2
 > guessing ;)m  I     Wasn't there a proposal that it would be a criminal offence to refuseeG     to hand over the keys to an encrypted document when asked for them?   J     If this comes to pass what happens when the goverment gets their handsB     on a file of garbage they are convinced is something you have G     encrypted? Will they jail you until you tell them how to make sensei     of the garbage? ;-)t   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 11:09:42 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)	 Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged3 Message-ID: <lgTf4LN5mG+9@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  T In article <3BD43451.8C37D8D8@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  B >> Whatever physical security measures you introduce, they are notA >> any less effective for a computer than for a notebook in a thet >> same physical location. > ( > Spot on Larry, hadn't considered that. > E > However, cynically, I could wheel a cabinet out and claim me and mytG > crooked friend are repairing this refrigerator, where a notebook does"F > not often resemble such a humble appliance. How many security guards > recognise a GS80 at 25 yards?e  D Of course those security guards who _could_ recognize a refrigeratorC are likely not to look in the lettuce drawer (or between the piping:& to the condenser) to find my notebook.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:12:32 GMT,3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>t Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged/ Message-ID: <3BD444D6.698CAFEF@cableinet.co.uk>    Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > 2 > Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes: > J > > But only a fool would put on computer.  My saying "If its on computer,K > > its not secure."  Nothing, short of keeping it to yourself, is secure -tC > > one can merely raise the level of effort required to obtain it.o > O > Using a filesystem that encrypts everything with a sufficiently large RSA/...hM > key, and the key or passphrase to it in your head, will raise that level totO > requiring torture of the owner. At that point, any other method is as or lesst	 > secure.u >   G what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture?    regardsr   -- , Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  o  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of p! my employers or service provider.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:24:35 +0000s: From: pol@read.the.sig.coz.this.is.invalid (Paul S. Brown) Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged8 Message-ID: <slrn9t8i23.sua.pol@screamer.newtonsols.net>  Q On 22 Oct 2001 09:00:33 -0700, Malcolm Dunnett <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote:b0 >In article <3BD388CD.C361C1D3@cablespeed.com>, 4 >   Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes: >> oI >> I suspect that with the gov't, the level may be high indeed.  However,rF >> 2048 or 4096 bit RSA encryption of absolute garbage might keep them >> guessing ;) >oJ >    Wasn't there a proposal that it would be a criminal offence to refuseH >    to hand over the keys to an encrypted document when asked for them? >eK >    If this comes to pass what happens when the goverment gets their handsoC >    on a file of garbage they are convinced is something you have 'H >    encrypted? Will they jail you until you tell them how to make sense >    of the garbage? ;-) >   G See UK - Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIP) Act. It exists and nom0 police force in the country knows how to use it.   Paul   -- l Being a geek is a state of mindf, Being paid to be a geek is a state of utopia 	- pol@geekstuff.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:30:02 +0100d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged) Message-ID: <3BD4498A.21840AA9@127.0.0.1>g   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  F > Of course those security guards who _could_ recognize a refrigeratorE > are likely not to look in the lettuce drawer (or between the pipingn( > to the condenser) to find my notebook.  	 ROTFLMHO!    -- d( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comM   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 18:43:33 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: Mitnick UncagedH Message-ID: <y4d73f1v7u.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ) Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes:t  H > > In which case you presumably rate stego more highly than crypto? ;-)0 > Why not do both?  Encrypt first, then hide it.  > Just so. Would be happy to sell you something appropriate 8-).   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 18:46:42 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: Mitnick UncagedH Message-ID: <y4adyj1v2l.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  5 Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:n  I > what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture?o  G No, that comes under the subheading "stupidity", which is of course thec+ subheading most used for security breaches.e   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2001 01:42:22 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged- Message-ID: <87adyjd11d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  D > Here's an example. In a bank that I use occasionally, it was beingF > refurbished a little while ago, and, I guess to foster good customerA > relations during the building work, a nice helpful notice board F > saying sorry for the inconvenience, but look at the plans of what itF > will look like when it's finished, and a nice copy of the architectsD > work, public areas and 'secure' areas. This, on public view, wouldF > allow potential weaknesses to be examined and exploited. Useless airC > gap. (I did speak with the manager expressing my concerns, and it  > was removed quite rapidly).o  ; Nice to hear that there is *some one* with half a clue Nic.a  B Long ago, I was in a govt dept at their front counter. On the wallC facing me was a list of logon IDs and passwords for the IBM... ThiseD was pointed out to them as somewhat dumb. No effect. Took a photo of it. Water off a ducks back...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:20:49 -0400M- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>v7 Subject: Mondays are More Exciting with TCPIP 5.0A ECO3,+ Message-ID: <sbd3f31f.008@AAASMTA.aaas.org>o  J I know the release notes for ECO3 are a little long, and maybe I skimmed =L it a little too briskly, but did I miss the part about replacing all of my =( configuration files and my printcap.dat?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 04:11:12 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergerb, Message-ID: <3BD3D497.BB88F42A@videotron.ca>   GreyCloud wrote: > > Hey, Mr. Taliban,a > > turn over bin Laden,' > > Payback come when we drop de bombs!t > >l > , > http://www.madblast.com/oska/humor_bin.swf   Thank you !e   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:42:31 +0000 (UTC)m9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> 3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergero- Message-ID: <9r1b8n$lde$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>t  < In comp.os.vms Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:8 : "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  D :> From a technical standpoint there's nothing insurmountable in theF :> IPF Consolidation. Marketing, messaging, and positioning remain the :> gating factors.  B : Plus 'details'. Like no CI for clusters, so if you currently run   CI have been PCI for a while.y2 The current cluster tech Memory Channel, also PCI.  C : 4-5 CI starts to cluster to a bunch of 7000 vaxen, hope you enjoy & : running it all over 10Mb ethernet :(  E There's max 96 nodes in a cluster. (Or so it was last time I checked)h  % I saw the :( but didn't quite get it.g   -- e
 -Roar Throns    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 16:34:36 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz), Subject: New C-Kermit 8.0 manpage + tutorial5 Message-ID: <9r1hqs$him$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>   F As part of the C-Kermit 8.0 package (coming soon) we've put together aJ first draft of an all-new manual page and tutorial for the Unix version ofI C-Kermit.  So far it's just in HTML format -- conversion to nroff will beoI postponed to the last possible moment.  Who knows, maybe an html-to-nroffg< and/or html-to-texinfo converter will come to light by then.  J We hope the new page is a lot more helpful than the old one.  Comments andH suggestions are welcome, but it's already quite long for a Unix man page) and we don't want to make it much longer.d  F The HTML is rudimentary except it includes some tables.  It looks fineF in Netscape and IE versions going back to 2.0; not so great (but still legible) in Lynx:w  .   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckututor.html  > A plain-text version (dumped from Netscape) is available here:  9   ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/text/ckututor.txtd  E Maybe there will also be a ckvtutor.html for VMS (which could then besK dumped to plain text and from there converted to VMS Help format), but only I when some VMS fanatic out there takes sufficient umbrage at the fact thatt& Unix got a tutorial and VMS didn't :-)   - Frankt   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:37:05 GMTe3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>y2 Subject: Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software/ Message-ID: <3BD43C87.6B74FE5B@cableinet.co.uk>t   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > i > "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote in message news:<w9Rz7.319$G%4.20961@ozemail.com.au>...  > > <all snipped> * > > they only wanted you to use lower case > > Phil > G > that isn't what it looked like to me ... i know many people that work,F > in caps ... vms doesn't normally care ... and i like caps, esp. whenJ > programming ... mcba dibol got me started ... and i like it!  and i knowH > a lot of other people that like and work w/caps also ... w/vms this is > not something new!  = sure, however on Usenet using all caps is generally construed  to be SHOUTING!,   regards    --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of m! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:59:29 GMTf- From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rickdyson@home.com>o Subject: Re: Printing to NLA0:?n( Message-ID: <3BD40A1B.79A72C10@home.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Why dont you : >  > $ STOP/QUE/RESET queue > 8 > It is simple. You dont print, but yiu have the jobs in/ > the queue and you can delete them after ! ! !   A 	Yes, the suggestions to setup a queue to a disconnected port andaG then clean out the queue would work.  But I did not want to increase my,K management tasks, but make them easier. :)  I don't want to have to monitoru	 that too.w  ? 	I will look into the Null Symbiots that were suggested and tryr one of them!  0 	Thanks to all of you for the quick suggestions.   Rick   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2001 23:11:31 -0700' From: piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers)b% Subject: Re: Runtime JAVA for openvmsl= Message-ID: <be44b12d.0110212211.4db6fbb1@posting.google.com>n  [ Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3BC8872E.3BC0990A@gtech.com>...  > Piet Timmers wrote: = > > Can anyone tell me where to get java runtime for openvms.NR > > I have tried http://www.digital.com/java but this does not work at the moment. > 7 > http://www.compaq.com/java/ is the correct start URL.e > , > It was down yesterday, but it is up today.  5 Ok, it is up now, but where to find java for OpenVMS?r   >  > Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 12:20:06 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: Runtime JAVA for openvms * Message-ID: <3bd3f2d6$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  g In article <be44b12d.0110212211.4db6fbb1@posting.google.com>, piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers) writes:o\ >Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3BC8872E.3BC0990A@gtech.com>... >> Piet Timmers wrote:> >> > Can anyone tell me where to get java runtime for openvms.S >> > I have tried http://www.digital.com/java but this does not work at the moment.  >> o8 >> http://www.compaq.com/java/ is the correct start URL. >> e- >> It was down yesterday, but it is up today.t >e6 >Ok, it is up now, but where to find java for OpenVMS?   Newest (JAVA2 V1.3.1) pieces: M JAVA JDK, JAVA FASTVM. JAVA NETBEANS, CSWS_JAVA is already out (some in beta) M JAVA JRE (subset of SDK), JAVA plugin (for MOZILLA) is said to come very soonu  . http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.htmlC http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.htmla< http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/  ) http://www.compaq.com/java/faq/index.htmloB http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/pdf_viewer.html  http://members.tripod.com/~vnsh/   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 03:37:50 -0700/ From: Andreas.Stiller@eds.com (Andreas Stiller)a% Subject: Re: Runtime JAVA for openvmsn< Message-ID: <6754352a.0110220237.edddc57@posting.google.com>   > > 9 > > http://www.compaq.com/java/ is the correct start URL.i > > . > > It was down yesterday, but it is up today. > 7 > Ok, it is up now, but where to find java for OpenVMS?  >  > >  > > Arne  E You have to go to "Alpha Systems" and then follow the tiny "download"sC link on the left-side frame. This page has still something for VMS.n) Probably they want to hide the VMS-stuff.   # Or you use the link posted before: ,0 <http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html>   Andreas    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 21:19:41 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: SEDT problems on RedHat 7.1 (was Re: EDT for Linux)- Message-ID: <87k7xnlslu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   1 Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:g  6 > In comp.os.vms Lee Roth <leeroth@my-deja.com> wrote:A > : To all that replied: I'll fuss with SEDT rebuild for a little B > : while, but if I have no success I'll try jed or barry's emacs.  ; > There's also GNU Emacs, available from http://www.gnu.org   ! Emacs v21 has just been released.   D > When I last went through the process, it was trivial to compile it > and get it working for VMS.s   !! a   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:24:50 +0200u+ From: "Allan Hansen" <abh@cortexconsult.dk>  Subject: SET FILE/ATTRIB in Cr/ Message-ID: <5wSA7.78$La5.3760@news.get2net.dk>   A Does anyone have an example of how to do the equivalent of an SETaE FILE/ATTRIB=(RFM:FIX etc...) in a C program (not by using system() ore similar) ???  % That would be very much appreciated !s   Allanu Cortex Consult A/S   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 08:11:36 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u! Subject: Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in CM3 Message-ID: <f9HUlUhwH0Tn@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  ] In article <5wSA7.78$La5.3760@news.get2net.dk>, "Allan Hansen" <abh@cortexconsult.dk> writes:dC > Does anyone have an example of how to do the equivalent of an SET G > FILE/ATTRIB=(RFM:FIX etc...) in a C program (not by using system() orb > similar) ??? >   D    Basically you $OPEN the file, change the FAB, and $CLOSE it.  See,    Joe Meadow's FILE utility for an example.  ?    Or just call routines in the FILE utuility from your C code.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:39:24 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>v! Subject: Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in Co/ Message-ID: <tt8fdc8popt574@corp.supernews.com>t  * Allan Hansen <abh@cortexconsult.dk> wrote:C : Does anyone have an example of how to do the equivalent of an SET G : FILE/ATTRIB=(RFM:FIX etc...) in a C program (not by using system() or+ : similar) ???  ' : That would be very much appreciated !D  = Simple answer: use system("SET FILE/ATTRIB=(RFM:FIX etc...)") @ in the C program.  Takes about 10 seconds to code, a few seconds to execute per file.  < Complicated (will take at least a week to code unless you've> done this before) - but much more efficient - answer: use RMS.  ? See the Records Management Services manual for details on using  RMS to do what you need :o  <  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/4523/4523PRO.HTML  = I've done the latter, many years ago, when I had something tot> prove (and learn).  I would choose the simpler solution today,? unless I absolutely had to go with RMS for run-time efficiency.t   -- k -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:20:28 GMT-3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)1! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. - Message-ID: <MlEA7.4$M3.26@news-srv1.fmr.com>M  	 Hi Terry,d  X Will you get a "finder's fee" from COMPAQ if they make the sale on this particular item?   ;-)<   --Bradu In article <YpDA7.140469$vq.32510689@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:u >"2 >"john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message: >news:BaBA7.426764$8c3.75973218@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...M >> I am trying to assemble a proposal to put an application our our Alpha VMSiM >> system.  In order to push this proposal I need to do a cost justification; L >> alas, without the E-store, or Business Link, I cannot get all the pricing >IK >> need.  Does anyone happen to have the list price of SNARJE for VMS for asI >> workstation (ES40 /dual 833 mhz processors).  If I can get even a goodi >guessE >> for this today (Sunday), I can have a proposal to submit tomorrow.  >> >yJ >Ah yes, additional evidence that Compaq's Web sites are the apotheosis of@ >squatulence. Thanks to a reseller friend at Sequel Data Systems: >(www.sequeldata.com) we have the following information... >gM >----------------------------------------------------------------------------0 >----l) >QL-10UAE-AA  Compaq SNA Remote Job Entryo >b3 > Estim. Lead Time (Business Days) - 1 Day Shipment , >Includes 1-Year Product Foundation Warranty >PAK Delivery Method: Paper  >h >eF > NET TOTAL AMOUNT                                           $1,671.00 >n >Hope this helps!e >r >Terry Shannon/ >Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaqp& >Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc. >  >u Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)I  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 06:22:06 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. 3 Message-ID: <l9ki8SjIX1SP@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  @ Then Terry Kennedy deserves a finders fee for the $1 item CompaqB just told me did not exist, but now has shipped once Terry gave me the part number.   Larry Kilgallen   c In article <MlEA7.4$M3.26@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:1 > Hi Terry,0 > Z > Will you get a "finder's fee" from COMPAQ if they make the sale on this particular item? >  > ;-)1 >  > --Bradw > In article <YpDA7.140469$vq.32510689@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:k >>3 >>"john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messagec; >>news:BaBA7.426764$8c3.75973218@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...,N >>> I am trying to assemble a proposal to put an application our our Alpha VMSN >>> system.  In order to push this proposal I need to do a cost justification;M >>> alas, without the E-store, or Business Link, I cannot get all the pricing- >>IyL >>> need.  Does anyone happen to have the list price of SNARJE for VMS for aJ >>> workstation (ES40 /dual 833 mhz processors).  If I can get even a good >>guess F >>> for this today (Sunday), I can have a proposal to submit tomorrow. >>>. >>K >>Ah yes, additional evidence that Compaq's Web sites are the apotheosis of-A >>squatulence. Thanks to a reseller friend at Sequel Data Systemsu; >>(www.sequeldata.com) we have the following information...j >>N >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>----* >>QL-10UAE-AA  Compaq SNA Remote Job Entry >>4 >> Estim. Lead Time (Business Days) - 1 Day Shipment- >>Includes 1-Year Product Foundation Warranty  >>PAK Delivery Method: Paper >> >>G >> NET TOTAL AMOUNT                                           $1,671.00s >> >>Hope this helps! >> >>Terry Shannon 0 >>Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq' >>Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.R >> >> > Bradford J. Hamilton" > bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) > brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work). > = > "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"y -- wN ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingiJ      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningscH      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 07:55:55 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.n3 Message-ID: <PiDynACp21pg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <8QKA7.141428$vq.32961076@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:f > J > Maybe the HP acquisition will result in online services that don't suck. >   F    I doubt it.  When I was buying HP workstations even experienced HP G    sales folk couldn't order a system by looking at their own catalogs.l   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 21:25:54 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. - Message-ID: <87g08blsbh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  J > Maybe the HP acquisition will result in online services that don't suck.  ) Never had to deal with HP have you Terry.n   -- m< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:51:48 GMT:4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.s> Message-ID: <8oWA7.143694$vq.33400972@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  @ "Bradford J. Hamilton" <sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com> wrote in message' news:MlEA7.4$M3.26@news-srv1.fmr.com...o > Hi Terry,o >6I > Will you get a "finder's fee" from COMPAQ if they make the sale on thise particular item? >8 > ;-)@  L Nope. Nor will the reseller in question. Just seemed like the thing to do at	 the time.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:53:08 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.i> Message-ID: <opWA7.143695$vq.33402372@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageI' news:87g08blsbh.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >cL > > Maybe the HP acquisition will result in online services that don't suck. >r+ > Never had to deal with HP have you Terry.( >s  G Umm, other than with their competitive analysis and strategy folks, no.    Uh-oh...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:32:10 GMTG. From: Dennis Miller Sucks <nospam@hotmail.com>M Subject: Re: The most hated country in the world ( was Re: Bomb The Mosques )e4 Message-ID: <Xns9142573B16A1BK732J78A5@24.9.139.141>  F I guess if you say something often enough you'll believe it sooner or L later.  If everyone hates us so much, why does everyone want to come here?     ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:03:22 GMTs3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>/% Subject: Re: vms declared unhackable!t/ Message-ID: <3BD434A1.C70717B3@cableinet.co.uk>    Bob Ceculski wrote:l > D > for those who didn't catch this, it is on compaqs openvms site ...% > i hope carly at hp is reading this!  > = > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/openvmstimes.pdfd >   [snip]s  4 wow, someone in Compaq may actually be listening :-)   -- ; Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  )  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of -! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:41:33 +0100.+ From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com>t3 Subject: Re: VMS7.3,AS7.3 & external authenticationt& Message-ID: <3bd3d91d$1@pull.gecm.com>  @ "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNOSP@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message+ news:l2iz7.597$RL6.5309@news.cpqcorp.net...  > 8 > "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message  > news:3bcc8857@pull.gecm.com...E > > System is DS10 & DS20E VMScluster running VMS 7.3 and AS 7.3 as a: BDCN0 > > for a domain where the PDC is an NT4 server. > >31 > > "NT" usernames are hostmaped to VMS accounts.e > > F > > External authentication is set for the users but those users whose "NT"H > > username is > 15 characters cannot logon to their VMS accounts via aF > > terminal emulator, while all others work fine.  I thought the max. "NT"$ > > username size was 20 characters. > >.H > That would be what we call a bug.  Its fixed in V7.3-ECO1 which I hope toF > release for distribution from the CSCs in the next day or so.  It'll be > availablekF > via traditional channels a couple weeks later.  Give the CSC a call, ande > they( > should be able to get you the ECO kit. >o
 > Regards, >  > Brad McCusker  > OpenVMS Engineeringe! > Littleton MA and Nashua NH, USAp >e >M  8 Thanks for your reply.  I'll be getting the update asap.  D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Groupo Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.1   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 18:52:27 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)p- Subject: vt420 soft characters example (drcs) ! Message-ID: <4H8e8gZJ7DqY@ludens>f   Hi,   ( there is a little utility to demonstrate7 the vt420 DRCS (dinamically redefinable character sets)u  3 I looked for any vt420 soft character demonstrationt* but I couldnot find any. So I wrote it :-)  # In the package there is some files:I2 support DCL command files (generates escape codes)# a demo file (nice flying butterfly)o     I hope you enjoy it :-)g  	 guidelet:i8 http://ludens.elte.hu/ftp/vms/freeware/vt420drcs001.txt    kit17 http://ludens.elte.hu/ftp/vms/freeware/vt420drcs001.zip:  A (also avaiable with traditioanal anonymous ftp at ludens.elte.hu)f   Regards, Adam Maulis    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:56:39 +00009  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com Subject: Re: VTEST on Alpha / Message-ID: <00256AED.0057993E.00@quegw01.btyp>   > --0__=ZIKulbSJIdOFsbwQuQdu9HTitJGj7mayQ2bYs4qEDq0ejDuI8L61756Y* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline   L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza     Wasn't aware of this!   P I've just contacted Cyrano in the UK regarding this, as we use a number of theirM products [VTEST, VIDEO, VTIMER and SYSTEL, which they support, and upon whichm  Talking Pages in the UK resides.  9 Waiting for someone from Cyrano [UK] to get back to me...i   Thanks for the info.   Steve Spires        4 Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> on 10/20/2001 09:40:58 AM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)CA From:      Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>, 20 October 2001, 9:40 a.m.v   Re: VTEST on Alpha      > --0__=ZIKulbSJIdOFsbwQuQdu9HTitJGj7mayQ2bYs4qEDq0ejDuI8L61756Y, Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inlined! Content-transfer-encoding: base64i    L DQpJbiBhcnRpY2xlIDxZNXB6Ny45NTE4JGN5Ljc2NTg5NUBuZXdzcmVhZDIucHJvZC5pdGQuZWFyL dGhsaW5rLm5ldD4sIFBhdWwNCkRlbm5pcyB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGV5IGFsbCwNCj4NCj4gV2UncmUgL dXNpbmcgYSBEVE0gdHlwZSBwcm9kdWN0IGNhbGxlZCBWVEVTVCBvbiBvdXIgVkFYZXMuICBXZSdyL ZSBwb3J0aW5nIHRvDQo+IEFscGhhIGJ1dCB3ZSBjYW4ndCBnZXQgaG9sZCBvZiB0aGUgb3JpZ2luL YWwgcHJvcHJpZXRvciBvZiB0aGUgcy93IHRvIHNlZSBpZg0KPiBpdCdzIGF2YWlsYWJsZS4NCj4NL Cj4gSGFzIGFueW9uZSBoZXJlIChhKSB1c2VkIGl0IChiKSBrbm93IGlmIGEgdmVyc2lvbiBleGlzL dHMgZm9yIEFscGhhIGFuZCAoYykNCj4ga25vdyBob3cvd2hlcmUgaXQgY2FuIGJlIGFjcXVpcmVkL Pw0KPg0KSSBoYXRlIHRvIGJyaW5nIGJhZCBuZXdzLCBidXQgeWVzdGVyZGF5IEkgZGlzY292ZXJlL ZCB0aGF0IEN5cmFubyBmaWxlZCBmb3INCmxpcXVpZGF0aW9uIG9uIDktT2N0LTIwMDEuIFNlZSBoL dHRwOi8vY3lyYW5vLmNvbS9uZXdzL29jdDEwMDFfZnIuaHRtbCBmb3INCmNvbmZpcm1hdGlvbiBvL ZiB0aGF0LCBhbHRob3VnaCBpdCdzIGluIEZyZW5jaCBhbmQgbGVnYWxlc2UgYXQgdGhhdC4NCg0KL SGVyZSdzIHdoYXQgSSBmb3VuZCBieSBwbHVnZ2luZyB0aGUgUmV1dGVyIGNvZGUgQ1lSQV9MTiBpL bnRvIGEgZmluYW5jaWFsDQpuZXdzd2lyZToNCg0KPkZyb20gOS1PY3QtMjAwMQ0KDQpQQVJJUyAoL QUZYKSAtIExlIGdyb3VwZSBDeXJhbm8sIHNw6WNpYWxpc+kgZGFucyBsZXMgbG9naWNpZWxzIGRlL DQp0ZXN0LCBhIGFubm9uY+kgbWFyZGkgcXUnaWwg6XRhaXQgY29udHJhaW50IGRlIHNlIG1ldHRyL ZSBlbiBsaXF1aWRhdGlvbiwgbGENCnNvY2npdOkgbifpdGFudCBwbHVzIGVuIG1lc3VyZSBkZSBmL YWlyZSBmYWNlIOAgc2VzIG9ibGlnYXRpb25zIOAgcGFydGlyIGRlDQpsYSBmaW4gZHUgbW9pcyBkL J29jdG9icmUuDQoiQXVjdW5lIGRlcyBkaWZm6XJlbnRlcyBwaXN0ZXMg6XR1ZGnpZXMgZW4gdnVlL IGRlIHBlcm1ldHRyZSDgIGxhIHNvY2npdOkgZGUNCmZpbmFuY2VyIHNhIHDpcmlvZGUgZCdvYnNlL cnZhdGlvbiBldCBkZSBwculzZW50ZXIgdW4gcGxhbiBkZSBjb250aW51YXRpb24NCm4nbm90IGFiL b3V0aSIsIGNvbnN0YXRlIGxlIGdyb3VwZS4NCkwn6XRhdCBkdSBtYXJjaOkgZXQgbCdleHRy6m1lL IHBydWRlbmNlIGRlcyBzb2Np6XTpcyBkZSBjYXBpdGFsLXJpc3F1ZSBuJ29udA0KcGFzIHBlcm1pL cyBkZSBj6WRlciBsZXMgYWN0aWZzIG5vbi1zdHJhdOlnaXF1ZXMgZXQgZGUgZOlnYWdlciBhaW5zL aSBsZXMNCm1veWVucyBkZSBmaW5hbmNlbWVudCBu6WNlc3NhaXJlcyDgIGxhIHBy6XNlbnRhdGlvL biBkdSBwbGFuIGRlIGNvbnRpbnVhdGlvbiwNCmV4cGxpcXVlIG5vdGFtbWVudCBDeXJhbm8uDQpFL biBtYWksIGxhIHNvY2npdOksIGNvdOllIGF1IE5vdXZlYXUgTWFyY2jpIGRlIGxhIEJvdXJzZSBkL ZSBQYXJpcywgYXZhaXQNCmTpauAgYW5ub25j6SBsYSBtaXNlIGVuIHBsYWNlIGQndW4gcGxhbiBzL b2NpYWwgY29uY2VybmFudCBxdWVscXVlIDI1DQpwZXJzb25uZXMuDQpBIGwnaXNzdWUgZGUgY2UgL cGxhbiBzb2NpYWwsIGxhIHNvY2npdOkgZGV2YWl0IGNvbXB0ZXIgOTAgc2FsYXJp6XMuDQpMZSB0L aXRyZSBhdmFpdCDpdOkgc3VzcGVuZHUgZW4gY291cnMgZGUgam91cm7pZSwgZGFucyBsJ2F0dGVuL dGUgZCd1bg0KY29tbXVuaXF16S4NCg0KSGVyZSdzIGEgcm91Z2ggdHJhbnNsYXRpb24gb2YgdGhhL dCwgc29ycnkgaWYgaXQgc291bmRzIGEgYml0IHN0aWx0ZWQsIGJ1dCBpdA0KX2lzXyBTYXR1cmRhL eSBtb3JuaW5nIDotKQ0KDQotLS0tLS0tDQpQQVJJUyAoQUZYKSAtIFRoZSBncm91cCBDeXJhbm8sL IHNwZWNpYWxpemluZyBpbiB0ZXN0IHNvZnR3YXJlLCBhbm5vdW5jZWQgb24NClR1ZXNkYXkgdGhhL dCBpdCB3YXMgb2JsaWdlZCB0byBwdXQgaXRzZWxmIGluIGxpcXVpZGF0aW9uLCB0aGUgY29ycG9yL YXRpb24NCmJlaW5nIHVuYWJsZSB0byBmYWNlIGl0cyBvYmxpZ2F0aW9ucyBmcm9tIHRoZSBlbmQgL b2YgdGhlIG1vbnRoIG9mIE9jdG9iZXIuDQoNCiJOb25lIG9mIHRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgcm91dGVzL IGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgdG8gYWxsb3cgdGhlIGNvcnBvcmF0aW9uIHRvIGZpbmFuY2UNCml0c2VsZiBhL bmQgdG8gcHJvZHVjZSBhIGNvbnRpbnVhdGlvbiBwbGFuIGhhdmUgcmVzdWx0ZWQiLCBub3RlIHRoL ZSBncm91cC4NCg0KVGhlIHN0YXRlIG9mIHRoZSBtYXJrZXQgYW5kIHRoZSBleHRyZW1lIHBydWRlL bmNlIG9mIGNhcGl0YWwtcmlzayBjb3Jwb3JhdGlvbnMNCmhhdmUgbm90IGFsbG93ZWQgdXMgdG8gL ZGl2ZXN0IG91cnNlbHZlcyBvZiBub24tY29yZSBzdHJhdGVnaWVzIGFuZCByZWxlYXNlDQpmdW5kL cyBmb3IgYSBjb250aW51YXRpb24gcGxhbiwgZXhwbGFpbiBDeXJhbm8uDQoNCkluIE1heSwgdGhlL IGNvcnBvcmF0aW9uLCBxdW90ZWQgb24gdGhlIE5ldyBNYXJrZXQgb2YgdGhlIFBhcmlzIEJvdXJzL ZSwgaGFkDQphbHJlYWR5IGFubm91bmNlZCBhIHJlZHVuZGFuY3kgcGxhbiBmb3Igc29tZSAyNSBwL ZXJzb25zLiAgQXQgdGhlIG91dGNvbWUgb2YNCnRoaXMgcmVkdW5kYW5jeSBwbGFuLCB0aGUgY29yL cG9yYXRpb24gd291bGQgaGF2ZSBoYWQgOTAgc3RhZmYuIFRoZSBzaGFyZXMgaGFkDQpiZWVuIHN1L c3BlbmRlZCBpbiB0aGUgY291cnNlIG9mIHRoZSBkYXksIHBlbmRpbmcgYSBzdGF0ZW1lbnQuDQoN@ Ci0tLS0tLS0NCg0KDQpfX18NClBhdWwgU3R1cmUNClN3aXR6ZXJsYW5kDQoNCg0K  @ --0__=ZIKulbSJIdOFsbwQuQdu9HTitJGj7mayQ2bYs4qEDq0ejDuI8L61756Y--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:37:46 -0600e- From: "Dan Notov" <dannoHATES_SPAM@large.com>c5 Subject: Re: We've burned our boats say Compaq and HPa/ Message-ID: <tt8f8v5vo8iu29@corp.supernews.com>D  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaget: news:Lh_z7.72328$%B.5567487@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >f8 > Dan Notov <dannoHATES_SPAM@large.com> wrote in message* > news:tt0n1536sng73@corp.supernews.com... > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:iaPp8D6hZb$f@eisner.encompasserve.org... : > > > In article <3bcf1ba9$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman"1 > > <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: H > > > >>It was an initiative to render Windows NT "industrial strength." > > > >hH > > > > Thanks for explaining "SCULPTOR" but to whome does "well-dressed
 > > gentlemani# > > > > of Italian heritage" refer?  > > >- > > > >>   EP    <<- > > >e	 > > > Robc > > Eckhard Pfeiffer?r > G > No - at least his accent sure didn't *sound* Italian.  I still wonderSI > whether he would made significantly better use of what he got from DEC.i >y > > Enrico Pesatori? >r9 > May he swim with and be eaten - slowly - by the fishes.   2 Sorry, but one can only *sleep* with the fishes...   Couldn't resistn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:40:11 +0100x* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>3 Subject: RE: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centre.M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E41B@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>M  H Unfortunately even when the IT Manager does know better, the 'in-flight'J magazine's sell a dream to the directors and bean counters, that forces ITI Managers down a path they don't want to go (if they want to stay Managers J that is). Whilst the impossible dream is being sold by good marketing, andJ people believe it, IT Managers all over the world will have to install and2 use c..p software just to keep those people happy.   Andrew RobinsonW   -----Original Message-----6 From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com] Sent: 17 October 2001 16:40c To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn3 Subject: Re: Windows Fails To Storm the Data Centre-   <snip>@ > > > Given Microsoft's track record to-date on "reliability and
 suitability",rD > > > this is wishful thinking without further technology donations. > > >rJ > > > The pro-Microsoft PHBs are fond of saying "Well, NT is where VMS 3.x was".UI > > > A fairer comparision is to compute the age of WNT/W2K/WXP, and thens lookK > > > to see where VMS was after that many years. VMS 3.x is still ahead of   > > > today's NT in reliability. > > >dL > > > If Microsoft takes over computing, it's because the companies who sell= > > > both Microsoft systems and competing products allow it.r > > > : > > > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own) >5J > actually, its kind of funny ... i get a lot of good laughs listening andF > watching all the problems it managers are having and putting up withF > because they don't know any better ... or they refuse to learn about+ > things other than what they already know!r   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 11:42:03 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please* Message-ID: <3bd3e9eb$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  X In article <3BD33F4B.47E188EB@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >> .J >> OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP >> operating system. >>  N >> What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there areN >> serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clustering
 >> etc etc) ?r >> a> >> What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ? >sP >I think the difference is that this time Microsoft might not give you a choice.  ' You (should) always have the choice ;-)e  M >If Windows 98, ME and 2000 become unavailable, and you want a new PC from a a7 >major vendor, you may become a de facto adopter of XP.   2 And this is exactly a reason for no more new PCs !  J Maybe new processors on new motherboards to replace older/slower/defectiveH ones in the existing PC, but surely no more complete new PC system boxes$ or the M$ license problem bites you.  G And you can also replace CD Drives with DVD Drives, and 40GB disks with-J 180GB disks and 32MB graphic cards with 128MB graphic cards and ZIP drivesL with JAZ drives at some later time. But this is again no new PC in licensing terms.  L Or is M$ already at the stage where the license is bound to a processor chip instead of a system ?A   Resist M$ !!   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 08:01:41 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)=, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please3 Message-ID: <jPqTEdCKICho@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <3BD38A02.30BD4053@cablespeed.com>, Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:iJ > Can one relate this new license scheme to the existing license scheme ofH > OpenVMS?  Seems to me that one beef this newsgroup has always had withG > OpenVMS is the licensing of OS and layered products, etc.  Of course,=J > the "downfall" of OpenVMS is not due to licensing policies alone, but itJ > seems that those policies have had their effect.  One can only hope that  > the same applies to Microsoft. >   E    If I add memory or hard disk to a VMS system, I just boot and run.<B    Maybe I'll autogen and/or init the disk, but meanwhile it's all&    thier and everything keeps working.  C    There's an implication that if you do either of these on your XPtC    system it stops running until you get a go ahead from Microsoft.eB    You may have to contect your software vendor for every hardware$    upgrade and perhaps some repairs.    -   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:55:33 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please> Message-ID: <FrWA7.143699$vq.33404044@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  / "GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in messager% news:3BD3AA7B.EC758606@cumulus.com...d  J > Too bad some company can't make a home version of vms. At least it would > be stable.  K Well, the DFWCUG offers the OpenVMS Hobbyist License. And when the IPF port G is completed, there will be an IPF version of said license. Hence it isoB theoretically possible that VMS will run (although unsupported and% unqualified) on generic IPF hardware.-  < This of course does not address the apps availability issue.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:04:04 -0400n% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>$, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <tt8dbab4ksr02a@news.supernews.com>n  / "GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in message % news:3BD3AA7B.EC758606@cumulus.com...d > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >t > > JF Mezei wrote:t > > >iJ > > > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP > > > operating system.e > > >-G > > > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Arem	 there are E > > > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of thingsi (clustering  > > > etc etc) ? > > >@A > > > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?> > >eK > > Personally, I'd starting grabbing up all those W/9x distro.'s that come<2 > > up on eBay, if you wish to stay on WhineBloze. > >aI > > Expect a major up-surge in the popularity of WhineBloze alternatives.  > >a >iJ > Too bad some company can't make a home version of vms. At least it would > be stable.  K There is a home version of OpenVMS.  It just costs about 5 times as much as  Windows.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:30:59 -0000m/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> , Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <tt8etjetciki7f@corp.supernews.com>g  / Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> wrote: J : Can one relate this new license scheme to the existing license scheme ofH : OpenVMS?  Seems to me that one beef this newsgroup has always had withG : OpenVMS is the licensing of OS and layered products, etc.  Of course, J : the "downfall" of OpenVMS is not due to licensing policies alone, but itJ : seems that those policies have had their effect.  One can only hope that  : the same applies to Microsoft.  A The XP activation agent is the single reason why I am refusing tovB use XP on my new system.  And I know 2 others who feel exactly the	 same way.:  D I suppose a general feeling of being boiled slowly (like the prover-D bial frog in the pot of warm water) by Microsoft has something to do with this, too.-  C Soon I will booting Linux as well as ME.  With luck, I will be abler4 to use that O/S for most of my time spent on the PC.  C One big difference (IMO) : unlike DEC/VMS, Microsoft keeps crankinglC up the heat with every new release.  And I think this will continuenC unabated until enough people jump out of the pot to precipitate no-c ticeable revenue drops.c   -- t -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:31:54 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>w, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <tt8evaqmeg6v97@corp.supernews.com>   $ John Vottero <John@mvpsi.com> wrote:M : There is a home version of OpenVMS.  It just costs about 5 times as much asg
 : Windows.  & How much is that and what's it called?   -- a -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 15:29:03 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)d, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <9r1dvv$2nsa$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  > In article <FrWA7.143699$vq.33404044@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,7  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:d |> bG |>                                                And when the IPF portM> |> is completed, there will be an IPF version of said license.  ! And HP has confirmed this where??    bill   -- .J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:02:14 GMT:3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>4, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <3BD4426C.9AE11D43@cableinet.co.uk>i   GreyCloud wrote:  cI > Yes, it's true.  But if you buy a new machine with XP pre-installed itso > not an issue.S > A > The whole thing centers on their paranoia over software piracy.o  ; wasn't one of the reasons Windows became so popular becauseb? it was so "easy" to pirate? Not that I ever have anything to dod= with pirate software myself, btw. Look at Cubase in the musicl3 software market for another example of this effect.a   regardse   -- r Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  s  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:38:13 -0400g( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <3BD43D65.7000803@tsoft-inc.com>   GreyCloud wrote:   > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >>J >>>OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP >>>operating system. >>>aN >>>What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there areN >>>serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clustering
 >>>etc etc) ?a >>> > >>>What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ? >>>iI >>Personally, I'd starting grabbing up all those W/9x distro.'s that come00 >>up on eBay, if you wish to stay on WhineBloze. >>G >>Expect a major up-surge in the popularity of WhineBloze alternatives., >> >> > J > Too bad some company can't make a home version of vms. At least it would > be stable. >   ! It's called the hobbyist program.a   -- r4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:19:24 -0400k% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>s, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <tt8l92hem7nqab@news.supernews.com>S  < "Michael Zarlenga" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message) news:tt8evaqmeg6v97@corp.supernews.com...l& > John Vottero <John@mvpsi.com> wrote:L > : There is a home version of OpenVMS.  It just costs about 5 times as much as > : Windows. >y( > How much is that and what's it called? >l  L A DS10 with an OpenVMS license will cost you about $6,000 to $7,000.  If youI already have the hardware, an OpenVMS license costs roughly $1,000.  Bothp5 numbers are about 5 times the cost of a Wintel setup.G   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:22:09 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please> Message-ID: <5BYA7.143845$vq.33474030@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:9r1dvv$2nsa$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...@ > In article <FrWA7.143699$vq.33404044@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,9 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:j > |>I > |>                                                And when the IPF portl@ > |> is completed, there will be an IPF version of said license. > # > And HP has confirmed this where??G  J It's not HP's call until the proposed acquisition is consummated. AssumingI that consummation actually takes place, it won't happen until, say, Aprilj 2002 at the earliest.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:30:12 -0700G% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>k, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please) Message-ID: <3BD457A4.BC8D6FAA@rdrop.com>v   John Vottero wrote:t > > > "Michael Zarlenga" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message+ > news:tt8evaqmeg6v97@corp.supernews.com...X( > > John Vottero <John@mvpsi.com> wrote:N > > : There is a home version of OpenVMS.  It just costs about 5 times as much > as > > : Windows. > >z* > > How much is that and what's it called? > >2 > N > A DS10 with an OpenVMS license will cost you about $6,000 to $7,000.  If youK > already have the hardware, an OpenVMS license costs roughly $1,000.  Bothp7 > numbers are about 5 times the cost of a Wintel setup.0  D Datapoint- I've an AS1200 I picked up for $2800, but that's not yourH typical workstation.  A DPWS433-600 would make a reasonable workstation,H and can be had for a few hundred (certainly less than $1000 USD) and theB Hobbyist program is free, assuming you can get your hands on media, elsewhere, or $50USD (?) for hobbyist media.  F Of course, you have to renew your hobbyist licenses every year; but at= least you don't have to fork $$$ to MS while you're doing it.u  D And, of course, that's used hardware, but you know what? I expect myF used equipment to last longer than the PC (Phaulty Crap) sitting on myG desk now.  Already has, in fact, as I had to replace the motherboard inw' it last spring, at less than 18 months.G   -- 2+ Dean Woodward   |    # include <sigquote.h>W deanw@rdrop.com |QD ----------------+---------------------------------------------------= '66 Duc 250 - '85 Yam FJ1100 - '00 Kaw KLR650 - '01 Apr Falcor   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:55:48 -0400G* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please' Message-ID: <3BD45DA4.10407@compaq.com>G   Bob Koehler wrote:  G >    If I add memory or hard disk to a VMS system, I just boot and run.XD >    Maybe I'll autogen and/or init the disk, but meanwhile it's all( >    thier and everything keeps working. > E >    There's an implication that if you do either of these on your XP-E >    system it stops running until you get a go ahead from Microsoft.tD >    You may have to contect your software vendor for every hardware& >    upgrade and perhaps some repairs.    E According to what I've read, you can add memory, disks, etc. without iC needing to reregister.  I haven't seen the exact algorithm however..  G This situation exists on OpenVMS if you upgrade your CPU.  If you have 1I capacity-based licenses, you may have to go to Compaq to buy more units. eF   Or if you install something twice, you should go back and buy a 2nd  license.  : Also, after 60-days, you can install XP on another system.  I I don't see much of a problem with the XP scheme.  I'm building a new PC e> for home and I have no reservations about installing XP on it. -- e John ReaganU' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:45:18 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a8 Subject: Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port?0 Message-ID: <00A03E55.F5BC5B17@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <00A03C1F.B4F4B513@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:N >Is it possible to run the DECwindows server such that it will use a differentN >port (a port other than port 6000)?  If so, can a SET DISPLAY command then be! >directed to this new port?  How?.  ' I hate responding to my own pust but...h  H I have been able to get 1/2 of the equation solved.  I was able to patchF DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP.EXE to get the DECWindows server on my machine toH listen and respond on a port other than 6000.  I would have thought thatH the patches I made to this image would have a SET DISPLAY also using the6 new port number I've assigned to it but it does not.    G Anybody here familiar with where DECWindows applications get theit porte number assignment?     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMR            -J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:09:56 +0200 . From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk>8 Subject: Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port?; Message-ID: <3bd4350c$0$271$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>e  H Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A03E55.F5BC5B17@SendSpamHere.ORG...J > In article <00A03C1F.B4F4B513@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG' (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:bF > >Is it possible to run the DECwindows server such that it will use a	 different H > >port (a port other than port 6000)?  If so, can a SET DISPLAY command then be # > >directed to this new port?  How?r  
 If you say  ;     $ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node=<node>/server=<n>   9 the applications will attempt to connect to port 6000+<n>        Best regards     Jesper Naura   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:16:43 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-8 Subject: Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port?0 Message-ID: <00A03E73.7E2A755D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <3bd4350c$0$271$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>, "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> writes: > I >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message,+ >news:00A03E55.F5BC5B17@SendSpamHere.ORG...eK >> In article <00A03C1F.B4F4B513@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORGe( >(Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:G >> >Is it possible to run the DECwindows server such that it will use ah
 >differentI >> >port (a port other than port 6000)?  If so, can a SET DISPLAY commandi >then be$ >> >directed to this new port?  How? >  >If you sayr >f< >    $ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node=<node>/server=<n> >o: >the applications will attempt to connect to port 6000+<n> >  >    Best regardsr >    Jesper Naur   How about port 100?    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            oJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbese   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:22:04 +0200B7 From: Alain Chappuis <alain.chappuis@medecine.unige.ch>M( Subject: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!!1 Message-ID: <3BD40F6C.2DB1EFEB@medecine.unige.ch>P   Hello,; I just installed the new version of Mozilla 0.9.5 under ones: Alpha Dec 3000-M600 OVMS 7.2-1. This product work fine ;-)  9 But when Mozilla is sleeping it take ~30% of my CPU Time?   ? Is there any body have one explanation for this problem or have  seeing this same problem?    Thanks in advance.   Alainp -- aD  +----------------------+------------------------------------------+D  | Alain Chappuis       | Responsable: E-mail; cmu.unige.ch        |D  | Analyste             | WEB    : www.medecine, ebn, jid, Sifm    |D  | Universite de Geneve | E-mail : Alain.Chappuis@unige.ch         |D  | Centre Medical Univ. | Phone  : +41 (22) [70]25.073             |D  | 1, Rue Michel-Servet | FAX    : +41 (22) 347.33.34 ou 702.58.58 |K  | CH-1211 Geneve 4     | http://ebn.unige.ch/www/alain.html       |       oD  +----------------------+------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 08:12:42 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s, Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!!3 Message-ID: <NdrvhpkNyzX5@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  k In article <3BD40F6C.2DB1EFEB@medecine.unige.ch>, Alain Chappuis <alain.chappuis@medecine.unige.ch> writes:e > Hello,= > I just installed the new version of Mozilla 0.9.5 under onee< > Alpha Dec 3000-M600 OVMS 7.2-1. This product work fine ;-) > ; > But when Mozilla is sleeping it take ~30% of my CPU Time?t >       Written for PC's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:21:13 +0200a, From: Theo Jakobus <Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de>, Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!!) Message-ID: <3BD42B59.4070007@iaf.fhg.de>C   Alain Chappuis wrote:m   > Hello,= > I just installed the new version of Mozilla 0.9.5 under oneW< > Alpha Dec 3000-M600 OVMS 7.2-1. This product work fine ;-) > ; > But when Mozilla is sleeping it take ~30% of my CPU Time?l > A > Is there any body have one explanation for this problem or haveA > seeing this same problem?. > $ PWS500au, OpenVMS 7.3, Mozilla 0.9.5   Logged in at about 9am $ SHOW SYSTEM/PROC=MOZILLAI OpenVMS V7.3  on node IAF021  22-OCT-2001 16:15:25.37  Uptime  7 00:06:31oN    Pid    Process Name  State    Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts  PagesO 00000566 MOZILLA        HIB      6    244500   0 00:01:36.17      8952   8237 M- $-Q I checked my e-mail using MOZILLA, so about 2min CPU time for 7 hours isn't bad. r- So something isn't ok with your installation.e     Regards, --    ; *********************************************************** ; *                                                         *c; *  Theo Jakobus                                           *z; *  Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Angewandte Festkoerperphysik  *p; *  Tullastr. 72                                           *e; *  D-79108 Freiburg                                       *v; *  Germany                                                *i; *  Phone:   +49-(0)761-5159-325                           * ; *  FAX :    +49-(0)761-5159-200                           * ; *  e-mail:  Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de                       *g; *  http://www.iaf.fhg.de                                  *B; *                                                         *j; ***********************************************************    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:45:35 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> , Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!!- Message-ID: <3BD4310B.D5290886@theblakes.com>-  G The CPU consumed when "idle" depends upon what you're making Mozilla doaB when its "idle". For example, leave Mozilla on a page with lots ofD animated graphics, and you'll see that kind of CPU usage. But if youF leave Mozilla on a "static" page, then CPU usage should come way down.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:35:00 -0400b* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>, Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] Burner of CPU time!!!) Message-ID: <3BD458C4.4090207@compaq.com>   G In the past when Mozilla wanted to load some plugin (Flash seems to be pI the most popular), it went into a loop when I clicked on "Cancel" in the tI "Do you want to download the plugin" box.  Recent versions don't do this i (at least in my experience).   --   John Reaganr' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderu   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.588 ************************