1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 23 Oct 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 589       Contents: announcing BASEstar HMI 
 BACKUP ACCVIO  Re: BACKUP ACCVIO  Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL Re: Changing File Attributes Re: Changing File Attributes$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk4 Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system diskE dynamic_cast failure in Compaq C++ version 6.3 on VMS on DEC Alpha...  Re: ECC  Re: ECC , ES40 MS610-FA  $5799 4Gb Memory Original DEC) Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking " GETUAI and External Authentication& Re: GETUAI and External Authentication! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! Re: How know last system restart? ! RE: How know last system restart? $ HSZ40, KZPSA, AlphaStation 200 4/233# Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master  Re: I am changing jobs Re: I am changing jobs RE: I am changing jobs Re: I am changing jobs RE: I am changing jobs Re: I am changing jobs Re: I am changing jobs Re: I am changing jobs Re: It's Friday  Re: It's Friday  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged  Re: Mitnick Uncaged 2 Re: Mondays are More Exciting with TCPIP 5.0A ECO3* Re: More official info on Compaq/HP mergerA motifzone.net - the site for Open Motif Developers (monthly post) ) Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software ) RE: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software ) Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software 4 NIS (network  information  nameservice) in OpenVMS ?8 Re: NIS (network  information  nameservice) in OpenVMS ?" Re: OT: Let's make one thing clear Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in C Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in C Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged. Re: SNARJE Info Snagged." Re: SuperDLT on older (EV5) Alphas; Re: TELNET sessions not closed, limit exceeded, how to fix? D Re: The most hated country in the world ( was Re: Bomb The Mosques ) Re: TPU/EVE Spelling Checker" Re: VMS future, a sense of deja vuE Re: VMS server file sharing with W2K clients: NFS and Pathworks grief # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please # Re: Windows XP reality check please $ Re: Windows XP reality, check please$ Re: Windows XP reality, check please$ Re: Windows XP reality, check please$ Re: Windows XP reality, check please# WRITEBOOT and dual-boot bootblocks? ' Re: WRITEBOOT and dual-boot bootblocks? / Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port? & RE: X.25 profile documentation wanted.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:14:31 -0400 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>  Subject: announcing BASEstar HMI1 Message-ID: <clZA7.778$RL6.8547@news.cpqcorp.net>   ? We are please to announce the availability of the BASEstar HMI.     C BASEstar HMI (Human Machine Interface) is a PC based Graphical User L Interface (GUI) that allows you to visualize your manufacturing processes in
 real-time.  K It is a standards-based product that utilizes OPC (OLE for Process Control) C to communicate with one or more BASEstar OPC Servers as well as any J additional OPC Servers that you may be utilizing within your factory. ThisL means that a single graphic screen (mimic) can send / receive data to / fromJ a variety of OPC based sources within your Intranet. Plant personnel, suchK as operators, engineers, mangers, etc. can easily see status or problems at  a single glance.  D The BASEstar HMI is available for use with both BASEstar Classic and2 BASEstar Open through the use of their OPC Server.  G OPC servers are available for both BASEstar Classic, running on OpenVMS 4 Alpha, and BASEstar Open on all supported platforms.  E The BASEstar Classic OPC Server is the first implementation of OPC on 4 OpenVMS, opening up OpenVMS to anybody's OPC Client.  ) The getting started guide can be found at J http://communities.msn.com/BASEstar/files/BASEstar-HMI-Getting-Started.chm  D Save this file to disk on your PC and then just double click to view	 contents.   " Part numbers for BASEstar HMI are:  % QM-6QJAA-AA Bstr OP HMI WIN 1 SYS LIC   % QM-6QJAA-AB Bstr OP HMI WIN 5 SYS LIC   & QM-6QJAA-AC Bstr OP HMI WIN 10 SYS LIC  & QM-6QJAA-AD Bstr OP HMI WIN 50 SYS LIC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:27:14 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: BACKUP ACCVIO+ Message-ID: <VA.00000493.2b57f98f@sture.ch>    Alpha VMS V7.2-1H1  F Before I report this to CSC, anyone experiencing BACKUP ACCVIOs? I've G had it more than once now. Nothing relevant in the hardware error logs.   B One of my backups failed with an access violation on mounting the B second tape volume. Volume 2 was not initialized by the operation ( (still had a saveset from August on it).   From the logfile:   
 (23:12) $! (23:12) $    backup/noassist -&           DSA127:[*...]/since=backup -*           /ignore=(interlock,label_proc) -2           $1$MUA25:DSA127_SUN.bck /media=compact -C           /label=(03WSG0,03WSG1,03WSG2,03WSG3,03WSG4,03WSG5,03WSG6) 0 %BACKUP-I-RESUME, resuming operation on volume 2; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=0000000056415366, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000( (00:03) $    bck_stat   = "4/%X1000000C" (00:03) $    set noverify 7 Status of this backup-operation :        (Severity : 4)    Other details:  , Tape type TZ88 on HSJ50-AX controller HSJ27.G Disk being backed up is a 2 member shadowset. Each member consists of 3 : striped (9 GB) disks on HSJ50-AX controllers HSJ29, HSJ31.- Firmware version V57J-1 on these controllers.    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:27:21 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>  Subject: Re: BACKUP ACCVIO/ Message-ID: <3BD4E2FC.AC5D53D5@cableinet.co.uk>    Paul Sture wrote:  >  > Alpha VMS V7.2-1H1 > G > Before I report this to CSC, anyone experiencing BACKUP ACCVIOs? I've I > had it more than once now. Nothing relevant in the hardware error logs.  > C > One of my backups failed with an access violation on mounting the C > second tape volume. Volume 2 was not initialized by the operation * > (still had a saveset from August on it). >  > From the logfile:  >  > (23:12) $!  > (23:12) $    backup/noassist -( >           DSA127:[*...]/since=backup -, >           /ignore=(interlock,label_proc) -4 >           $1$MUA25:DSA127_SUN.bck /media=compact -E >           /label=(03WSG0,03WSG1,03WSG2,03WSG3,03WSG4,03WSG5,03WSG6) 2 > %BACKUP-I-RESUME, resuming operation on volume 2= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual < > address=0000000056415366, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000* > (00:03) $    bck_stat   = "4/%X1000000C" > (00:03) $    set noverify 9 > Status of this backup-operation :        (Severity : 4)  >  > Other details: > . > Tape type TZ88 on HSJ50-AX controller HSJ27.I > Disk being backed up is a 2 member shadowset. Each member consists of 3 < > striped (9 GB) disks on HSJ50-AX controllers HSJ29, HSJ31./ > Firmware version V57J-1 on these controllers.    Paul  7 presumably you have escalated this with Compaq support?   E In the meantime, depending on how mission critical this is, you might  needC to invest some time/effort inhouse on reproducing on test/dev/hired F in systems. Might also be a good time to review/test your DR strategy.  ? anyway, good luck. Good backups are needed in times like these. % If you need a hand, I need some cash.    regards.   >  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland    --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:28:27 -0500 , From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com># Subject: Re: BCC support in VMSMAIL 2 Message-ID: <9r2nu6$9gs$2@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>   Guy,J      BCC would be a nice addition, but what our customers really need is aK supported, functional smtp/mime compliant mailer without having to nuy PMDF J to get it.  Exchange is absolutely not an issue anywhere we work (even theI PC side uses a better system than that) but working compatibility (if not G full functionality) with older versions of VMSmail is necessary (if the H changes you make are not backported).  In other words if someone sends aK BCC'd mail to someone else on a V6.2 system, nothing screwy happens.   I'll G see the earlier mention of the PMDF mail program, and raise you a fully E functional and supported Pine (or equivalent) for VMS (with BCC :)...   F BTW, I've asked Process if there's any way they could sell/license theL client programs only (assuming they could be made to work without PMDF beingH there) but it doesn't look like that will happen (at least I never heard back about it).    Rich Jordan   < Guy Peleg wrote in message <3BD3EC5E.E683DA66@compaq.com>... >  >Hello All,  > B >Lately I have been playing with the idea of adding BCC support to	 >VMSMAIL. / >I would like to get your feedback about this :  >  .  .  . 
 >Guy Peleg >OpenVMS Engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:50:59 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Changing File Attributes ' Message-ID: <3BD4DB13.9CD0CD84@fsi.net>    John Laird wrote:  > 9 > On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:20:54 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >JF Mezei wrote: > >> > >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote: I > >> > > > Record format:      Stream, maximum 79 bytes, longest 79 bytes # > >> > > > Record attributes:  None  > >>M > >> > In VMS-land, the Stream record format means that records are separated O > >> > by a <CR><LF> pair (a.k.a. "DOS/Windows" format). A "binary" ("stream of E > >> > bytes") file is typically Fixed-512 with no record attributes.  > >>R > >> But a "stream" file in VMS is akin to a fixed format 512 byte one in terms of > >> contents. > > G > >Hhmm... well, for that matter, you can say the same of Stream_LF and D > >Stream_CR. A Fixed-512 file will be read as fixed-length 512 byteK > >records. A Stream file will be read as variable length records delimited F > >by <CR><LF> pairs. A Stream_LF file will be read as variable lengthG > >records delimited by <LF>. A Stream_CR file will be read as variable $ > >length records delimited by <CR>. > J > Check your doco.  Stream records are delimited by more than just a CR/LFB > pair.  A simple LF or FF will also act as terminators, so Stream% > includes Stream_LF as it turns out.   D You may find the output from the following procedure interesting, orD perhaps entertaining. The VMS-challenged can find the output at this URL:  1 http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/recfmt_log.txt   F The long and the short of it is: STM files exhibit behavior similar toH DOS/Win. That is, for STM files, it accepts <LF> alone in the absence ofD <CR>; however, the behavior was unexpected (by me). In such case, itH returns the <LF> as part of the data record, where <CR><LF> get stripped off.  2 Here's the proc. Hope it doesn't wrap too badly...   $ SET VERIFY $! $!	RECFMT.COM -	22-Oct-2001  $!9 $!	Create a small ASCII file, then CONVERT it and change   $!	its attributes.A $!	Use both DUMP/RECORD and EDT to illustrate how RMS interprets   $!	the record in each case.  $! $ COPY NLA0: STM.TXT $ DIRECTORY/FULL STM.TXT;  $ APPEND SYS$INPUT STM.TXT" This is a test stream format file.( It was created as a sequential/variable ! file and was CONVERTed to have a  ! [CR][LF] pair, a [CR] alone or a  % [LF] alone at the end of each record.  $ EOD  $ DIRECTORY/FULL STM.TXT;  $ CREATE STM.FDL FILE*         ORGANIZATION            sequential   RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yes $         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        none&         FORMAT                  stream $ EOD % $ CONVERT/FDL=STM.FDL STM.TXT STM.STM  $ DIRECTORY/FULL STM.STM;  $ DUMP/BLOCK=COUNT=1 STM.STM $ DUMP/RECORD STM.STM & $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STM.STM %WH  QUIT! $ SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STMLF STM.STM  $ DUMP/RECORD STM.STM & $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STM.STM %WH  QUIT! $ SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STMCR STM.STM  $ DUMP/RECORD STM.STM & $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STM.STM %WH  QUIT $ CREATE STMCR.FDL FILE*         ORGANIZATION            sequential   RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yes $         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        none)         FORMAT                  stream_cr  $ EOD ) $ CONVERT/FDL=STMCR.FDL STM.TXT STMCR.STM  $ DIRECTORY/FULL STMCR.STM;  $ DUMP/BLOCK=COUNT=1 STMCR.STM $ DUMP/RECORD STMCR.STM ( $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STMCR.STM %WH  QUIT# $ SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STMLF STMCR.STM  $ DUMP/RECORD STMCR.STM ( $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STMCR.STM %WH  QUIT! $ SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STM STMCR.STM  $ DUMP/RECORD STMCR.STM ( $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STMCR.STM %WH  QUIT $ CREATE STMLF.FDL FILE*         ORGANIZATION            sequential   RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yes $         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        none)         FORMAT                  stream_lf  $ EOD ) $ CONVERT/FDL=STMLF.FDL STM.TXT STMLF.STM  $ DIRECTORY/FULL STMLF.STM;  $ DUMP/BLOCK=COUNT=1 STMLF.STM $ DUMP/RECORD STMLF.STM ( $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STMLF.STM %WH  QUIT# $ SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STMCR STMLF.STM  $ DUMP/RECORD STMLF.STM ( $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STMLF.STM %WH  QUIT! $ SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STM STMLF.STM  $ DUMP/RECORD STMLF.STM ( $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND/NOJOURNAL STMLF.STM %WH  QUIT
 $ DELETE -F STM.TXT;,STM.FDL;,STM.STM;,STMCR.STM;,STMCR.FDL;,STMLF.STM;,STMLF.FDL; $ EXIT     --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 04:31:28 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: Changing File Attributes D Message-ID: <Ao6B7.1084532$ai2.82581671@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3BD4DB13.9CD0CD84@fsi.net...  > John Laird wrote:  > > ; > > On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:20:54 -0500, "David J. Dachtera" " > > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > >    ...   I > > >Hhmm... well, for that matter, you can say the same of Stream_LF and F > > >Stream_CR. A Fixed-512 file will be read as fixed-length 512 byteC > > >records. A Stream file will be read as variable length records 	 delimited H > > >by <CR><LF> pairs. A Stream_LF file will be read as variable lengthI > > >records delimited by <LF>. A Stream_CR file will be read as variable & > > >length records delimited by <CR>.  F That's what I remember (sorry for butting in, but if anyone else is asI confused as I am by this discussion of something I *think* I remember, it  may have some worth).    > > L > > Check your doco.  Stream records are delimited by more than just a CR/LFD > > pair.  A simple LF or FF will also act as terminators, so Stream' > > includes Stream_LF as it turns out.   I While I have some vague recollection that other 'vertical form effectors' C (such as LF or FF, maybe VT as well, and possibly even CRTL/Z) will H terminate a STM record (code I think I can remember writing but can't beJ certain I remember the details of), that's not the same as saying that STMG includes STM_LF, because the two will interpret the contents of records " differently as David demonstrated.  K In particular, in a STM file, while other VFEs may terminate a record, onlyKI the CR/LF pair is handled specially in the manner that LF is handled in alJ STM_LF file and CR is handled in a STM_CR file:  stripped on GET, inserted; (if not present explicitly in the record presented) on PUT.s  G OTOH, I also have this vague recollection that the record terminator issK returned in the RMS STV field and may also be appended to the record in theaI buffer (if the buffer is large enough) - but not included in the returnedaJ RSZ value.  So I can't remember *why* the non-default STM file VFEs appearK explicitly in the returned record, unless that's just what was necessary to-K make things work the way existing software expected (e.g., if they *didn't*eK appear there, then record-by-record file copy operations would have to grabaH them from the input file STV and stuff them into the output file buffer,G rather than just copy records blindly - and as long as nothing else got7H upset by this approach, then hey, why not?  it also may work better whenJ passing file data to unit-record devices, and correctly propagates recordsE with embedded non-default VFEs, albeit breaking them up into multiplee pieces).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 13:11:15 -0700< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingr= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0110221211.22b954b2@posting.google.com>s  s "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...sM > It's nice to see VMS mentioned at all, and in a positive way, in the press.eJ > But it's difficult to imagine that this article reflects any substantive( > change in its lingering-death warrant. >  > - bill  F Hey, you gotta start someplace...  We can only hope that it's a start,A now that OpenVMS has the real potential to have outlived Digital,n@ Compaq, HP, and Ultrix, OSF/1, D-Unix, Tru64, HPukes, and MPE...  ? If only we could do something about this pesky Windows-virus...    Aaron    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:36:41 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>O- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingr, Message-ID: <3BD48356.FABBB537@videotron.ca>   john nixon wrote:EK > This kind of article is exactly the kind we need.  Comments such as yoursI' > and J.F.'s do not help worth a twit. e  J Digital spent 8 years trying to kill VMS. Compaq spend the following yearsL ignoring (at best) VMS. And Compaq has seriously considered outright killingN VMS not too long ago. Getting folks to trust that VMS' future is anything moreL than a florified maintenance mode without any marketing will talk a lot more+ than just a few good articles in the press.p  K Winkler, Carly and Curly continue to state that they will focus on industrysM standard stuff. And that has more weight on one's option on the future of VMS A within the Carly&Curly show than any single article in the press.p  I The primary problem isn't with the public's perception of VMS, it is witheM Compaq and HP's perception of VMS. You can't sustantially change the public'seA perception before you fix the owning company's perception of VMS.c  N Didn't that article state that VMS might have to give up some of its niches ? K VMS has given up international funds transfers, one of its former 6 niches.cN And Compaq didn't mind because it expects most of these customers to choose anM NT solution which is becoming available. Another niche might go because HP-UXs, would be the choice solution for that niche.  I Oracle is implementing its own clustering capabilities so even on systemspI without decent clustering, customers might still benefit from clustering.(  I VMS cannot live on clustering alone for very long. It needs applications.a  ( > For years, the complaint was that  VMSL > was technically the best, but they could not buy a positive comment in the	 > press. e  M That is because they did not want positive comments in the press. The message K from Compaq/HP is pretty clear: if you're an existing large key customer of N VMS, you need not worry, we'll support you for years to come, but don't expectJ VMS to grow out of its few remaining niches or get any form of substantial4 marketing because VMS is not an industry standard OS   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 15:38:52 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)E- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 3 Message-ID: <Uqv9cwmDwgT6@eisner.encompasserve.org>,   In article <rdeininger-2210011353550001@user-2ivea8a.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:tI > In article <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill ' > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:t >  > B >> Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to stateJ >> that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'sD >> offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter. >  > 4 > But that isn't quite what the article said, is it? > E > "Somewhere in the 2004 timeframe, Compaq will ship 64-processor andLH > perhaps 128-processor Alpha systems based on the EV7 processor family.H > Code-named "Marvel," these are, Gorham says, "big honkin' systems withK > lots of memory" that are very scalable, very modular, and very fast, withhG > memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today's offerings."c > J > He said EV7 processor _family_, not EV7.  That probably means the future& > EV79, or whatever they will call it. >   ? 	Gotta watch it Robert.  Bill is most always right on technical @ 	issues and he is clearly right about that being incorrect.  The9 	author either got it wrong or Mark misspoke.  Either or.7   	As a for instance. @ 	Let's suppose memory access time today for a 4 processor box is@ 	in the neighborhood of 250-300 ns  (not unreasonable and mostly@ 	common actually).  If you had 100 times the decrease or speedup@ 	that would put it around 2 ns which is much faster than on-chip  	L2 access.  Clearly impossible.  L > He also talked about 64- or128-CPU systems 3 years or so in the future.  II > think there is plenty of room to speed up the entire memory subsystem. e  ? 	But not enough room to defeat physics.  Main memory access haseA 	the pesky overhead of lookups, etc.  There are tons of technical A 	info at www.tomshardware.com.  Finally, I believe for open pages G 	on EV7 the memory load was 30 ns but you would only have a few hundredeB 	pages open.  (Don't hold me to 30 ns... actually slide 17 of PeteA 	Bannon's original MPR presentation does indeed show a 30 ns loadcC 	to use on an already open page).  But average load of course wouldb< 	be much higher than 30 ns even with on-chip controllers ;-)   				Robo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:34:01 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingl, Message-ID: <3BD490C3.DA6BF5AF@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:2M > When did the news of the cancellation of the VMS port to IPF come out? Mustt > have missed that one.e  L CNN interrupted its 24/7 coverage of Anthrax panic with a "BREAKING NEWS" to announce this :-)  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)t    L To announce a cancellation of the port to IA64, Compaq/HP would have to meetJ with a sufficient number of customers and get them to agree to stay on VMSK without an IA64 port but perhaps with an extended Alpha commitment. If thatnJ were achievable, I think that Compaq could safely cut the port to IA64 andB maintain the remaining VMS userbase and the profits they generate.  J The 30 or so engineers working on IA64 port would then be able to focus on improving VMS instead.  L I don't know how much the port will cost HP/Compaq, but I suspect it will beM out of petty cash and as such, it would be silly to cancel that project, even-M if it doesn't eventually generate any revenue. I see the port to IA64 as a PR M exercise to prevent rumours that Compaq will kill VMS. This way, it is easieraN for Compaq to keep the existing VMS customers (and the profits they generate).  M > If Compaq scuttles VMS, the game is over. What would replace all that juicyb7 > high-margin revenue? Windoze? Linux? The PocketPC OS?   N Agreed. They can't scuttle VMS *yet*. But the writing is on the wall that theyI intend to scuttle it as soon as possible and get customer to move over to-L "industry standard" platforms. If Compaq/HP want to streamline their productM line, it is only fair to expect OS consolidation after they are done with the- server consolidation.   ; The question is when the "as soon as possible" will happen.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:04:18 -04002+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> - Subject: RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinguT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4010D711A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,n  G >>> but don't expect VMS to grow out of its few remaining niches or get(@ any form of substantial marketing because VMS is not an industry standard OS>>>  D Fwiw, expect to see almost every vendor stating support for industry0 standard technologies and that includes OpenVMS.  F In the past, that was a marketing term by most Wintel vendors, but the@ reality today is that the "industry standard" or, in some cases,B "perceived" industry standard technologies that many Customers areE looking for are for example : XML, LDAP, X.509, TCPIP, HTTP(S), J2EE, D Java, SOAP, X.500 (yes - still very much in use) etc. (and many moreD "eTerms" evolving)... Just look at all the different software vendorB sites and see how they promote their software being compliant with "industry standards".   H So, while I agree that "industry standard" may have meant something elseE in the past specific to HW, I would suggest that this means somethingp+ entirely different today to most Customers.   @ Imho, the best overall future solutions will be proprietary OS'sD (maximize OS use of HW for better RASS) that have tightly integrated@ "industry standard" software technologies for interoperating and8 complete compatibility with the rest of the universe.=20  F Course, if one defines proprietary as "developed and maintained by oneG vendor only", then all OS's are proprietary, but that is a never ending  rat hole discussion.   :-)"   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.m Professional Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660> Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] Sent: October 22, 2001 4:37 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingo     john nixon wrote: E > This kind of article is exactly the kind we need.  Comments such aso yourse) > and J.F.'s do not help worth a twit.=20l  D Digital spent 8 years trying to kill VMS. Compaq spend the following yearseD ignoring (at best) VMS. And Compaq has seriously considered outright killingl@ VMS not too long ago. Getting folks to trust that VMS' future is
 anything more G than a florified maintenance mode without any marketing will talk a lote more+ than just a few good articles in the press.o  B Winkler, Carly and Curly continue to state that they will focus on industryF standard stuff. And that has more weight on one's option on the future of VMSA within the Carly&Curly show than any single article in the press.t  D The primary problem isn't with the public's perception of VMS, it is withD Compaq and HP's perception of VMS. You can't sustantially change the public'sA perception before you fix the owning company's perception of VMS.f  D Didn't that article state that VMS might have to give up some of its niches ?=20oC VMS has given up international funds transfers, one of its former 6m niches.cD And Compaq didn't mind because it expects most of these customers to	 choose anpG NT solution which is becoming available. Another niche might go becauseE HP-UX!, would be the choice solution for that niche.  A Oracle is implementing its own clustering capabilities so even on  systemst= without decent clustering, customers might still benefit frome clustering.c  ; VMS cannot live on clustering alone for very long. It needs 
 applications.P  ( > For years, the complaint was that  VMSH > was technically the best, but they could not buy a positive comment in the  > press.=20i  E That is because they did not want positive comments in the press. The  message/H from Compaq/HP is pretty clear: if you're an existing large key customer ofG VMS, you need not worry, we'll support you for years to come, but don'tN expect> VMS to grow out of its few remaining niches or get any form of substantialD4 marketing because VMS is not an industry standard OS   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:46:33 GMTU* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingTD Message-ID: <J53B7.1081700$ai2.82307283@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  / john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messageM8 news:sIWA7.392977$aZ.78559839@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...L > As ususal, you are much more eloquent, informed and well researched than I > am.  >  > However, you are wrong.R  G That's always possible, though on the basis of past history improbable.R I'll try to explain below.   > K > This kind of article is exactly the kind we need.  Comments such as yours I > and J.F.'s do not help worth a twit.  For years, the complaint was thatE VMS=L > was technically the best, but they could not buy a positive comment in theJ > press.  Here we get positive comments, and you blast them.  Who the hellL > cares if  he exagerated (or was just plain wrong) when he said memory willC > be 300 times faster.  Articles like this help me get VMS projects 	 approved.P  I Quite likely true.  The question is whether this is a good thing or a bad  thing.  I > The more VMS projects that get approved, the more likely it will be forT HPAQ+ > to take notice and keep investing in VMS.M  H That's the assumption on which we part company, and the reason I'm still	 negative.   I VMS, more than any other single product, has kept Compaq afloat since theDI DEC acquisition, while its 'industry-standard server' business boomed andPI then burst with the .com bubble and its PC business went down the toilet. J So if anyone *should* have 'taken notice and kept investing in VMS', you'dG certainly think it would have been Compaq - especially given the 9% (ifd> that's the right figure) up-tick in VMS sales in 2000, despite4 characteristically negligible advertising that year.  F Did Compaq respond by starting to advertise VMS at least minimally and/ attempting to capitalize on its strengths?  No.u  G Did Compaq devote additional development resources to VMS to attempt to F enhance its applicability to the present marketplace?  No.  (My directG experience when sniffing around a new file system project less than two2D years ago was that it was having difficulty getting even shoe-stringG funding:  the VMS developers may still be putting up a brave front, buth, they're doing so without corporate support).  J Did Compaq take the major blow that dropping Alpha would have on VMS sales; into account?  Not to any degree that changed its decision.b  I It's about time you (and others like you) got it through their heads thatrL *nothing* is going to make Compaq's current management any more enthusiasticJ about VMS than it is now.  And since major portions of that management areB headed for HP if the merger succeeds, there's no joy there either.  K VMS is inexorably headed toward oblivion, and the only question is just howrC fast the train is going.  So my feeling is that the train should beaJ derailed - i.e., Compaq's management has to go, and the sooner the better.H This means that things have to get worse before they get better, but theF sooner they get worse, the better the chance that opportunities to get2 better on the other side won't have passed VMS by.  G We'll start to see this week just how badly Alpha sales are off (and ofeH course VMS sales along with them), unless Compaq hides the numbers.  AndH given that a full-fledged VMS port to Itanic won't complete until 2004 -K when the available Itanic hardware still won't be anything near competitiveeD in absolute performance nor in price/performance - VMS sales will beK depressed until at least 2005 - 6.  Do you *really believe* that Compaq (orpG HP) will pour any more money into VMS development over that period than I Compaq is today (neglecting the port, which is essentially cosmetic untilnL such time as Itanic provides a platform anyone would want to purchase)?  AndK do you really think that VMS will still be competitive 4 - 5 years from nowtE without such investment?  And do you really think that in the face ofVJ continually-dwindling sales, Compaq or HP will even invest as much as theyK are now, rather than just place VMS on life support for those already usingh it?i  K Maybe life-support is all you want.  Some of us want more, and the only waygH to get it is to change VMS's owner (since it's abundantly clear that theE current owner's attitude is set in concrete, after the past 3+ years'sI evidence and efforts to change it).  We can't expect VMS to thrive on its J own, because it needs a support organization (and that's one thing neitherI Compaq nor HP will relinquish) - so we need to drive out Compaq's currente management.   L That shouldn't be too difficult:  the merger is already on shaky ground, andJ if Compaq's investors won't reject it then HP's may well do so if Compaq'sK valuation doesn't match what HP has committed to pay.  And the conventionaltD wisdom is that if the merger falls, so does Curly (and with luck his henchmen along with him).8  G In the short term, therefore, VMS sales (or any other Compaq sales) are  *not* desirable.  H That's admittedly a fairly drastic solution, but what else is there?  ItL seems almost certain that other management, or other ownership, won't do anyK *worse* job with VMS than Compaq has or HP seems likely to.  And they might G do considerably better.  So the down-side is minimal (though admittedlyq< somewhat alarming), and the potential up-side is worthwhile.  L The alternative is to continue hoping for the best, which most people shouldG have realized by now just hasn't worked out well at all.  And to try torL sucker new customers into committing to VMS (in the desperate hope that thisG will *finally* make VMS's owner appreciate it) when they will more thannH likely live to regret that decision, which is ethically dubious as well.  G So I understand why you find my attitude painful, but suggest that it'se0 likely better grounded in reality than your own.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:12:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingd, Message-ID: <3BD4C3E1.6CA49D5D@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:H > In the past, that was a marketing term by most Wintel vendors, but theB > reality today is that the "industry standard" or, in some cases,D > "perceived" industry standard technologies that many Customers areG > looking for are for example : XML, LDAP, X.509, TCPIP, HTTP(S), J2EE,e     What is more important: + 	-the way you interpret "industry standard"e  I 	-the way customers perceive Carly and Curly's statements in a context ofr
 product line w 	 streamlining ?  K If she says "we'll concentrate on industry standard OPERATING SYSTEMS",  dom/ you still think your definition still applies ?l          J > So, while I agree that "industry standard" may have meant something elseG > in the past specific to HW, I would suggest that this means somethingv- > entirely different today to most Customers.   G But when customers try to interpret their vendor's true intentions withoL regards to support of the black-sheep operating system, the fact that CompaqK refused to include VMS in the "industry standard" category is an indication J that VMS is not included in the "industry standard" that Compaq-HP want to	 focus on.S  B > Imho, the best overall future solutions will be proprietary OS's) > (maximize OS use of HW for better RASS)y  K Yep, VMS on Alpha or VMS on VAX. OS and hardware designed to work together.r  N But in the end, quality isn't important to most corporations and they just buyN the cheapest junk with known quality issues because that is uindustry standardH and you can't go wrong by choosing the same thing that every one of your competitors is also choosing.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:20:15 GMTm* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingeD Message-ID: <yt4B7.1082659$ai2.82435708@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  = Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagenF news:rdeininger-2210011353550001@user-2ivea8a.dialup.mindspring.com...I > In article <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billr' > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  >  >iC > > Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to state K > > that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'syE > > offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.i >w > 4 > But that isn't quite what the article said, is it?  L Since I cut the quote directly from the article, I'm reasonably sure that it is.    > E > "Somewhere in the 2004 timeframe, Compaq will ship 64-processor andsH > perhaps 128-processor Alpha systems based on the EV7 processor family.H > Code-named "Marvel," these are, Gorham says, "big honkin' systems withK > lots of memory" that are very scalable, very modular, and very fast, with G > memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today's offerings."i > J > He said EV7 processor _family_, not EV7.  That probably means the future& > EV79, or whatever they will call it.  H The EV79 is projected to be mostly a process-shrink of the EV7, in whichK case while its clock rate may improve there's no reason to believe that its H memory-access latency will improve (though unrelated memory developmentsG over time could help a bit).  I'm not a memory sub-system expert, but IpH could imagine that memory bandwidth could improve by as much as the EV79J clock rate improves - but this is more like a factor of 2 than a factor of several hundred.   >uL > He also talked about 64- or128-CPU systems 3 years or so in the future.  IH > think there is plenty of room to speed up the entire memory subsystem.  9 There is - but hardly by 2.5 or more orders of magnitude.i     IiH > don't have the specs handy, but perhaps someone has numbers available.K > What is the maximum per-CPU memory bandwidth on today's EV7 chips, in the.H > ideal situation where the memory subsystem has tons of cache and neverH > makes the CPU wait?  How much better will EV79 be?  Now multiply these > numbers by 64 or 128.a  K I could have missed the 128-processor Alphas when I looked at the road maps)K in the recent CETS presentations:  were they still visible (I only remember4 64P configurations)?  H But be that as it may, if you're going to multiply EV79 bandwidth by theG number of processors, then when making comparisons you have to multiplyoK today's EV68 bandwidth by 32 (i.e., to compare system-to-system figures, ormC processor-to-processor figures, but not today's single processor tov tomorrow's 128P system).  4   I can imagine improvements in memory throughput byL > factors of 2 to 4 in _several_ areas -- perhaps an improvement of 10 to 203 > times overall in 3 years, compared to the GS-320.n  I I can imagine 10 - 20 as well, but, again, that's nothing like 300 - 500.e   >eJ > If he meant aggregate, system-wide memory bandwidth, not per-word accessI > speed, I guess there will be a large improvment over the current GS-320r
 > systems.  & Large, yes.  300x - 500x?  Ridiculous.  A   Should a VP be able to explain the difference between speed and % > bandwidth?  Well, it would be nice.o  J He doesn't have to, but he doesn't get to *combine* them when discussing aH speed-up.  Either he meant 300 - 500 times the bandwidth (ridiculous) orK 300 - 500 times less latency (even more ridiculous).  But even if you *did*hI consider the bandwidth*(latency**-1) product, it *still* won't happen, ori anything like it.    >tI > At first I thought he might have meant 300 to 500 _percent_ faster thanhG > now, but that seems too pessimistic to me.  300 to 500 _times_ fasterT > seems wrong.G > Gorham's statement does need more explanation.  But I don't think yout > represented it quite fairly. >oI > Since you sneer at Gorham's estimate as reported, what is your estimateo. > for alpha server memory performance in 2004?  L It takes a great deal less knowledge to know that an assertion is ridiculousL than to come up with a close prediction oneself:  I'm hardly the best personI to ask.  But on the basis of Hammer's predicted (perhaps average) 140 ns.:I access time in a 4P ring configuration (max 2 hops to any memory) and 160mL ns. access time in an 8P semi-mesh configuration (max 3 hops to any memory),A latencies slightly under 100 ns. even to non-adjacent memory seemeH reachable - assuming that RAMBUS can achieve latencies comparable to DDR SDRAM.  I The only reference I can find to EV7's memory bandwidth is a 16-month-old J article by Paul DeMone at realworldtech.com, which pegs it at 12.8 GB/sec.H Since the processors have high-bandwidth interconnects as well, a singleJ processor might well be able to exploit memory connected directly to otherI processors over this interconnect and achieve a total memory bandwidth ofsF 44.8 GB/sec (the figure in his article last June) - but clearly if oneL processor is doing so, the others aren't accessing their own local memory atI all, so using the 12.8 GB/sec figure per processor seems more reasonable.n   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:52:53 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingW> Message-ID: <9Y4B7.145896$vq.33912152@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager> news:J53B7.1081700$ai2.82307283@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >t1 > john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messaget: > news:sIWA7.392977$aZ.78559839@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...L > > As ususal, you are much more eloquent, informed and well researched than Ir > > am.  > >l > > However, you are wrong.e >rI > That's always possible, though on the basis of past history improbable.e > I'll try to explain below. >  > >rG > > This kind of article is exactly the kind we need.  Comments such as  yours6K > > and J.F.'s do not help worth a twit.  For years, the complaint was thati > VMSeJ > > was technically the best, but they could not buy a positive comment in the2L > > press.  Here we get positive comments, and you blast them.  Who the hellI > > cares if  he exagerated (or was just plain wrong) when he said memory  willE > > be 300 times faster.  Articles like this help me get VMS projectsi > approved.i > K > Quite likely true.  The question is whether this is a good thing or a badg > thing. >SK > > The more VMS projects that get approved, the more likely it will be foro > HPAQ- > > to take notice and keep investing in VMS.m > J > That's the assumption on which we part company, and the reason I'm still > negative.s > K > VMS, more than any other single product, has kept Compaq afloat since theeK > DEC acquisition, while its 'industry-standard server' business boomed andoK > then burst with the .com bubble and its PC business went down the toilet.nL > So if anyone *should* have 'taken notice and kept investing in VMS', you'dI > certainly think it would have been Compaq - especially given the 9% (ifs@ > that's the right figure) up-tick in VMS sales in 2000, despite6 > characteristically negligible advertising that year. >tH > Did Compaq respond by starting to advertise VMS at least minimally and1 > attempting to capitalize on its strengths?  No.   I And therein lies the rub. The firm actually believes that it *did* do therI above, and no doubt can cite examples of advertising and promotion. But IgI have to agree, Compaq is way too circumspect in its approach to marketingcI and positioning. But the marketing and positioning is consistent with thei& self-defined "target markets"strategy.  L If the IPF port is successful (and there is no technical reason why it won'tC be so) VMS should enjoy a larger addressable market. Of course, thetG financial news that's coming out tomorrow after the market closes isn'toH gonna be too auspicious for VMS... or anything else in the HPSD and NSD.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:57:16 GMTf4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingo> Message-ID: <g05B7.145922$vq.33917340@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageM> news:yt4B7.1082659$ai2.82435708@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > ? > Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagedH > news:rdeininger-2210011353550001@user-2ivea8a.dialup.mindspring.com...K > > In article <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billn) > > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:W > >2 > >ZE > > > Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to stateoE > > > that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster thana today'sRG > > > offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter.e > >' > >y6 > > But that isn't quite what the article said, is it? > K > Since I cut the quote directly from the article, I'm reasonably sure thatt it > is.e >, > >cG > > "Somewhere in the 2004 timeframe, Compaq will ship 64-processor andbJ > > perhaps 128-processor Alpha systems based on the EV7 processor family.J > > Code-named "Marvel," these are, Gorham says, "big honkin' systems withH > > lots of memory" that are very scalable, very modular, and very fast, withI > > memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today's offerings."t > >hL > > He said EV7 processor _family_, not EV7.  That probably means the future( > > EV79, or whatever they will call it. > J > The EV79 is projected to be mostly a process-shrink of the EV7, in whichI > case while its clock rate may improve there's no reason to believe thaty itsrJ > memory-access latency will improve (though unrelated memory developmentsI > over time could help a bit).  I'm not a memory sub-system expert, but ImJ > could imagine that memory bandwidth could improve by as much as the EV79L > clock rate improves - but this is more like a factor of 2 than a factor of > several hundred.  G That seems correct. Whether Mark misspoke or was misinterpreted remainsn
 uncertain.   >h > >eK > > He also talked about 64- or128-CPU systems 3 years or so in the future.g I J > > think there is plenty of room to speed up the entire memory subsystem. >?; > There is - but hardly by 2.5 or more orders of magnitude.t  	 No doubt!m   >  >   IcJ > > don't have the specs handy, but perhaps someone has numbers available.I > > What is the maximum per-CPU memory bandwidth on today's EV7 chips, ina thetJ > > ideal situation where the memory subsystem has tons of cache and neverJ > > makes the CPU wait?  How much better will EV79 be?  Now multiply these > > numbers by 64 or 128.o >qH > I could have missed the 128-processor Alphas when I looked at the road mapsD > in the recent CETS presentations:  were they still visible (I only remember > 64P configurations)?  L Good point. While early Marvel collateral showed 128-way systems, the recentL roadmaps cite 64P boxes. I am told that the latest PID reflects 128P systemsH but don't know for sure. Given the Marvel design, if you can build a 64PL system, you ought to be able to scale it to 128P simply by adding additional 8P Marvel building blocks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:30:50 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge, Message-ID: <3BD4E469.D4D48A99@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:nN > If the IPF port is successful (and there is no technical reason why it won't6 > be so) VMS should enjoy a larger addressable market.  1 Why should it enjoy a larger adressable market ? m  M Compaq (and Digital before it) decided to restrict VMS to certain markets andtF decided to price Alpha so that it would not compete against the 8086.   L IA64 is coming out and will be restricted to certain markets (high end whereN milking of customers is expected). The 8086, no longer profitable, will remain< as a commodity for desktops with stiff competition from AMD.  H So far, IA64 stands to be just another Alpha, restricted to high end andK prevented from competing directly against the 8086. And while one can arguerL that if you look long enough into the future, you can see IA64 replacing theL 8086 on the desktop, you also have to consider that you cannot look that far into the future for VMS.  L I see absolutely nothing that would change VMS' status as a fringe OS hiddenN in the basement and allowed to play as long as it doesn't steal customers that could be served by NT.  L If Compaq/HP have intentions to widen VMS' horizons, then they should say soI clearly and stop stating that they would consolidate to industry standardtL stuff and not focus on proprietary solutions. (remember that Windows weeniesM consider Windows to be industry standard. It lacks the principal quality of apD prorpietary system: supportable quality OS so it can't possibly be a proprietary OS ;-)   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 22:58 CDTb' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)n- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking - Message-ID: <22OCT200122580782@gerg.tamu.edu>   6 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes...H }In article <HMVA7.113479$%B.8809579@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill& }Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: }  } B }> Aside from his obvious propensity for marketeer-speak, to stateJ }> that EV7 has "memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today'sD }> offerings" ranks pretty high on the technical-incompetence meter. }  } 3 }But that isn't quite what the article said, is it?q } D }"Somewhere in the 2004 timeframe, Compaq will ship 64-processor andG }perhaps 128-processor Alpha systems based on the EV7 processor family. G }Code-named "Marvel," these are, Gorham says, "big honkin' systems with J }lots of memory" that are very scalable, very modular, and very fast, withF }memory access speeds 300 to 500 times faster than today's offerings." } I }He said EV7 processor _family_, not EV7.  That probably means the futurer% }EV79, or whatever they will call it.i } K }He also talked about 64- or128-CPU systems 3 years or so in the future.  IdJ }think there is plenty of room to speed up the entire memory subsystem.  IH }don't have the specs handy, but perhaps someone has numbers available. J }What is the maximum per-CPU memory bandwidth on today's EV7 chips, in theG }ideal situation where the memory subsystem has tons of cache and nevereG }makes the CPU wait?  How much better will EV79 be?  Now multiply thesetJ }numbers by 64 or 128.  I can imagine improvements in memory throughput byK }factors of 2 to 4 in _several_ areas -- perhaps an improvement of 10 to 20u2 }times overall in 3 years, compared to the GS-320.   }Robert Deininger  }rdeininger@mindspring.com  E Considering that each EV7 has 8 Rambus channels, the total throughputpD is a lot. Assume 800MHz DRDRAM. This stuff is 16 bits wide. Thus theE maximum theoretical peak throughput for one CPU is 2 bytes at 800MHz fD for 8 channels giving 2*800*8 = 12.8 gigabytes (in the decimal senseF of the "giga" prefix rather than the binary sense) per second per CPU.E If every CPU in a 128 CPU system were hitting that peak throughput at D the same time, that would be a combined rate of 1638.4 gigabytes per second.e  F Of course, that would never actually happen for any significant periodI of time (even in the single CPU case it isn't likely to ever be sustainedhC for more than perhaps a few dozen clock cycles). But it is a really 
 large number.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 13:22:28 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk 3 Message-ID: <kXkQ4HWF84s2@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  b In article <3bd458f7$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:F >>I suppose they could do it differently on VAX, but on Alpha there isF >>a single RMS image for both normal and extended file specifications.' >>That which gets changed, gets broken.e > B > If it's not broken on an Alpha, why would it be broken on a VAX?  @ That is a faulty premise.  There were various defects introducedC with the advent of extended file specification processing on Alpha.k  F VMS Development is under the impression that their Alpha VMS customersE want innovation more than their VAX VMS customers.  There are surveyssB at each US DECUS symposium to give them feedback in these matters, albeit indirectly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:20:58 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system diskh, Message-ID: <3BD4B7EA.8060200@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  d > In article <3bd458f7$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: > G >>>I suppose they could do it differently on VAX, but on Alpha there islG >>>a single RMS image for both normal and extended file specifications.f( >>>That which gets changed, gets broken. >>>hB >>If it's not broken on an Alpha, why would it be broken on a VAX? >> > B > That is a faulty premise.  There were various defects introducedE > with the advent of extended file specification processing on Alpha.t > H > VMS Development is under the impression that their Alpha VMS customersG > want innovation more than their VAX VMS customers.  There are surveysuD > at each US DECUS symposium to give them feedback in these matters, > albeit indirectly. >   D Surveys can differ widely depending on how the questions are asked. E Should you ask the Alpha users if they want stability, I doubt there uH would be any to say 'No'.  If you ask either if they want new features, % many (VAX and Alpha) would say 'Yes'.   E To ask VAX users if they want stability, and equate a 'Yes' for that  H question to be an automatic 'No' for new features would show tremendous G bias.  I don't know what questions were asked.  I pretty sure that VMS oI software maintenance costs do not differ between VAX and Alpha.  I think iE that the VAX customers on software maintenance are getting the shaft.m   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 21:24:52 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk 3 Message-ID: <NokAVlIv8yl1@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  W In article <3BD4B7EA.8060200@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:u > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  I >> VMS Development is under the impression that their Alpha VMS customers H >> want innovation more than their VAX VMS customers.  There are surveysE >> at each US DECUS symposium to give them feedback in these matters,v >> albeit indirectly.m >>   > F > Surveys can differ widely depending on how the questions are asked. G > Should you ask the Alpha users if they want stability, I doubt there nJ > would be any to say 'No'.  If you ask either if they want new features, ' > many (VAX and Alpha) would say 'Yes'.e  D One aspect of the "indirectly" is the question about what version ofB VMS is being used.  I believe they get few Alpha customers runningA V6.1 but many VAX customers running V5.5.  If those VAX customers 9 wanted innovation more than stability they would upgrade.p  @ Granted, third party applications may hold some customers at old> VAX versions, but from the viewpoint of the market for VAX VMSA that is mearly another factor that goes into the "want" equation.rE There is less (percentage) demand for new features on VAX than Alpha.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:11:11 GMTp3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>g= Subject: Re: Converting an ODS-2 to an ODS-5 file system disk,/ Message-ID: <3BD4DF2E.3D94A2CB@cableinet.co.uk>0   David Froble wrote:m  rF > To ask VAX users if they want stability, and equate a 'Yes' for thatI > question to be an automatic 'No' for new features would show tremendoussH > bias.  I don't know what questions were asked.  I pretty sure that VMSJ > software maintenance costs do not differ between VAX and Alpha.  I thinkG > that the VAX customers on software maintenance are getting the shaft.'  a  C you have a point, but then, if, say, the IPF port of OpenVMS ALpha pH was augmented by a port to VAX and explicit support of 32 as well as 64 D bit architectures (which might actually be the best 1st step towardsA vms on 32 bit Intel platforms, if anyone cared), then the upgrade.D to, say, VMS 8.0 ne SuperOpenVmsThatWillFinallyRuleTheITWorld, wouldA probably be to much risk for those hanging onto their VAXen. Somee? of them havn't even upgraded to VMS 6, as I'm sure you realize.   > Some might argue that those still running on VAX have skimped ? on their TCO budget's by failing to keep up to date. However as 6 most of them probably were actively discouraged at the buisiness/marketting< level by their vendor from continuing investment in VMS then< I agree with your basic point that things should be done to ; bring them back on a positive heading with respect to VMS. h  C However, all this may well be moot due to architercural differencesGD between the platforms, and/or the development and testing budget(s).   regards- -- - Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  0  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of j! my employers or service provider.i   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 12:42:28 -07004 From: jemelter@rockwellcollins.com (James E. Melter)N Subject: dynamic_cast failure in Compaq C++ version 6.3 on VMS on DEC Alpha...= Message-ID: <29cc9a0a.0110221142.7ad69f53@posting.google.com>7  C Is anyone aware of any problems with using dynamic_cast<> in Compaqo	 C++ v6.3?,  D I am attempting to port a C compiler written originally in MicrosoftA C++ 6.0 to a DEC(Now Compaq) Alpha system hosted with OpenVMS 7.1pE using Compaq C++ v6.3 CXX compiler(whew). All C compiler source fileshC eventually compiled and linked after minimal tweaking, but failuresoB occur at runtime in code where the C++ dynamic_cast<> construct is8 used to downcast a base class pointer to a derived classE pointer(assertions fail). I've tried using the following to determine . if the typecast should work(alla Stroustroup):  D cout<<"====================================================="<<endl;8 cout<<"pParent type is "<<typeid(*pParent).name()<<endl;D cout<<"====================================================="<<endl;  F and the type is correct so the downcast should work, but the assertionC still fails in this code immediately following(Note that Child is ao subclass of Parent, obviously):d  2     Child *pChild= dynamic_cast<Child *>(pParent);     assert (pParent!= NULL);  F Isolating problematic code is difficult in this case because there areC so many source files(So far 87, just to isolate these two lines). IiE can say for sure that this code uses a lot of STL or Standard LibraryhB containers as well as the library string class. The source code isB basically littered with the dynamic_cast construct but I think theE failures are all related(this is only one case). It may not always beiB a bad thing to use dynamic_cast, but to me it seems like they over) used it(a somewhat lack of polymorphism).n  E Hopefully someone out there is aware of Compaq C++ 6.3 dynamic_cast<>a= limitations? Or maybe there is a workaround for this? Compaq?   % Thanks in advance for any assistance.m   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2001 05:27:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: ECC- Message-ID: <87itd7gybq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:i  D > Generally systems VMS runs on have ECC with single bit correction,F > and multi-bit detection.  Most systems will crash on a "hard" doubleE > bit error.  We do have memory scrubbing logic.  I don't remember iftD > the 8600 had the code in it to attempt to fail a process, or if it > was just the 9000.  ? VaxVMS would examine the page tables and: reload the page if it-; was RO, Kill the process if it was process private, or elsef the system.y  C The 8600 had some tricks to provide 'parity protection' for addressl6 errors as well. Don't know id the 9Ks did that at all.   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.u@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:33:03 GMTd( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: ECC' Message-ID: <GLn0F3.E8K@spcuna.spc.edu>   5 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:0> > "Most" PC's use simple parity detection, without correction.  G   That probably isn't true any more. Intel chipsets since at least the iG 430HX have offered ECC. Certainly, motherboard/system manufacturers areoH free to screw up the design, or ship a BIOS that can't enable it. One ofF the most popular boards, the Intel SE440BX and the later BX-2, offeredF ECC and was used as the base of many OEM systems, for example the DellD Dimension XPS R and T systems (and perhaps other Dimension systems).  D   Fortunately, RAM prices are low enough (and the sophistication of H modern memory modules is high enough) that "logic parity" isn't used anyH more. [It computed the parity bit each time a location was read, using a6 simple IC instead of saving the parity bit in memory.]  F   The Alphastation 200 4/233 (and presumably its close relatives) usedG a single parity bit for each 64-bit location (though the SIMMs each hadoH 33 bits, for a total of 66 bits instead 65, so the SIMMS would be inter- changeable).  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:00:26 -0400 0 From: "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com>5 Subject: ES40 MS610-FA  $5799 4Gb Memory Original DEC / Message-ID: <tt958td1u5oc9f@news.supernews.com>e   ES40 Memory   ' MS610-FA 4Gb Memory Original DEC  $5799s   Unused condition    $ 12 months warranty - in stock now !!   We sell Alpha systems & partsi http://www.islandco.com  sales@islandco.com Island Computers US Corp.f 2700 Gregory Streetu Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622s Fax: 912 201 0096h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:09:46 -0400b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d2 Subject: Re: Fwd: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking, Message-ID: <3BD47D09.D72E50E5@videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote:bR > > Gorham and friends can say what they want, but when it comes down to it, it isQ > > what Carly, Curly that make the big decisions based on advise from folks sucho > > as Winkler.i > N > You don't think Carly and Curly will listen to what a VP has to say?  Why do > you think they made him a VP?e  L How many VPs are there, and how many have got Carly and Curly's ears ? SeemsL to me that whatever title Winkler has, he has more weight in determining theF public policy with regards to OS strategy than people higher than him.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:15:10 GMT-) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)m+ Subject: GETUAI and External Authenticationa1 Message-ID: <3bd4c167.426863427@news.wcc.govt.nz>   	 Hi Chaps,3  F Pulled down GETUAI becasue I want to be able to provide Frontline with" a neat summary of a Users Account.  C Once of the things I wanted to show was the External AuthenticationeC flag. The version I obtained doesn't show this, so I tried updating 	 the code.nE Now I am NOT a Programmer. But, I did  get the program to Compile andeA accept the /EXTAUTH as a flag. Trouble is it doesn't work. Always 6 returns the same value whether the flag is set or not.  D So, either what have I missed (cocked up!) or is there a more recent version of GETUAI somewhere.  B For those with an interest in such things, differences between the	 files is:s UAIDEF.H
 UAIDEF.H;1   128   #pragma nostandard ******
 UAIDEF.H;5&   128   #define UAI$M_EXTAUTH 0X100000   129   #pragma nostandard ************ ************
 UAIDEF.H;1   153       } ;  ******
 UAIDEF.H;5B   154       unsigned uai$v_extauth : 1;         /* enable external authentication */f   155       } ;  ************ ************
 UAIDEF.H;1!   182   #define UAI$V_MONDAY    0n ******
 UAIDEF.H;5&   184   #define UAI$V_EXTAUTH       16!   185   #define UAI$V_MONDAY    0e ************   GETUAI ************
 GETUAI.C;1E   160       TEDef( "FILLM", UAI$_FILLM, build_int, 0, action_int, 0),h ******
 GETUAI.C;4<   160       TEFlag( "EXTAUTH", action_flag1, UAI$M_EXTAUTH),E   161       TEDef( "FILLM", UAI$_FILLM, build_int, 0, action_int, 0),  ************    GETUAI.CLDp ************ GETUAI.CLD;1>    40           qualifier FILLM, nonnegatable, value(required,
 type=$outsym)  ******
 ]GETUAI.CLD;2-@    40           qualifier EXTAUTH, nonnegatable, value(required,
 type=$outsym)n>    41           qualifier FILLM, nonnegatable, value(required,
 type=$outsym)2 *r  
 As usual TIA,d   Rob.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:32:06 GMTB) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)l/ Subject: Re: GETUAI and External Authentication 1 Message-ID: <3bd4c836.428606133@news.wcc.govt.nz>s  E On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:15:10 GMT, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)s wrote:    Ooopps hit the Send a bit early.> Running on VAX under VMS 7.2, with a very old version of the C	 compiler!h  
 >Hi Chaps, >iG >Pulled down GETUAI becasue I want to be able to provide Frontline witho# >a neat summary of a Users Account.p >sD >Once of the things I wanted to show was the External AuthenticationD >flag. The version I obtained doesn't show this, so I tried updating
 >the code.F >Now I am NOT a Programmer. But, I did  get the program to Compile andB >accept the /EXTAUTH as a flag. Trouble is it doesn't work. Always7 >returns the same value whether the flag is set or not.7 >oE >So, either what have I missed (cocked up!) or is there a more recent  >version of GETUAI somewhere.t >.C >For those with an interest in such things, differences between theb
 >files is:	 >UAIDEF.H  >UAIDEF.H;1d >  128   #pragma nostandardm >******l >UAIDEF.H;5 ' >  128   #define UAI$M_EXTAUTH 0X100000n >  129   #pragma nostandardi
 >************w
 >************  >UAIDEF.H;1  >  153       } ; >******m >UAIDEF.H;5wC >  154       unsigned uai$v_extauth : 1;         /* enable external  >authentication */ >  155       } ;
 >************u
 >************o >UAIDEF.H;1i" >  182   #define UAI$V_MONDAY    0 >******f >UAIDEF.H;5t' >  184   #define UAI$V_EXTAUTH       16G" >  185   #define UAI$V_MONDAY    0
 >************g >m >GETUAId
 >************  >GETUAI.C;1bF >  160       TEDef( "FILLM", UAI$_FILLM, build_int, 0, action_int, 0), >******  >GETUAI.C;4 = >  160       TEFlag( "EXTAUTH", action_flag1, UAI$M_EXTAUTH),bF >  161       TEDef( "FILLM", UAI$_FILLM, build_int, 0, action_int, 0),
 >************  >t > GETUAI.CLD
 >************t
 >GETUAI.CLD;1)? >   40           qualifier FILLM, nonnegatable, value(required,n >type=$outsym) >******  >]GETUAI.CLD;2A >   40           qualifier EXTAUTH, nonnegatable, value(required,  >type=$outsym)? >   41           qualifier FILLM, nonnegatable, value(required,e >type=$outsym) >* >a >As usual TIA, >t >Rob.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:02:38 GMTa7 From: "Lyle W. West" <lyle.west@childrenshc.org.nospam>-* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?6 Message-ID: <3BD418ED.2B468BF5@childrenshc.org.nospam>   Tom Linden wrote:  > , > Now, if I wanted to define in my login.com > = > uptime== the below text, how do I escape the double quotes?1 >  > >c+ > > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")n > >o   -- w, $ write sys$output "''f$getsyi("boottime")'" --  0 My opinions seldom reflect those of my employer.   Lyle W. West   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:19:59 -0600 ( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com>* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?+ Message-ID: <3BD4634F.3C1CE80B@ecubics.com>r  
 Benito wrote:a > G > Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, the & > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2.  G That's easy. Check/find the invoice for the machine. Usually, it is ther day you bought it ;-)D   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:48:11 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> * Subject: Re: How know last system restart?/ Message-ID: <tt8tvr67rh594e@corp.supernews.com>n  " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:, : Now, if I wanted to define in my login.com= : uptime== the below text, how do I escape the double quotes?m* :> $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")  6 uptime :== "write sys$output f$getsyi("""boottime""")"  1 Once inside "s, you have to use 2 ""s to get 1 ".    -- g -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:57:42 GMTe) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) * Subject: Re: How know last system restart?1 Message-ID: <3bd4b185.422797310@news.wcc.govt.nz>t  4 On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:56:37 +0200, "Ren Schelbaum"" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote:   >e7 >"Benito" <torpeman@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrags8 >news:cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com...	 >> Hello,r >>H >> Im new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, the' >> VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2.a >> >> Can anybody help me.h >> >> Thanks & Regards. >  >Hi! >u >There are two easy ways:y >nM >1.) if you have accounting enabled a "acc/fu/type=sysinit" will give you allh >rebootsL >2.) if not, do a "show system". you will have the uptime in the first line.2 >A little calculation will give you the boot-time.  1 Or SHOW SYSTEM/NOPROCESS gives just the top line.  >w >Regards >  >RenI >n >k   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 19:20:45 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)* Subject: Re: How know last system restart?< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0110221820.1fe9317@posting.google.com>  ! Reply to address given at bottom.   f Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message news:<tt8tvr67rh594e@corp.supernews.com>...$ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:. > : Now, if I wanted to define in my login.com? > : uptime== the below text, how do I escape the double quotes? , > :> $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime") > 8 > uptime :== "write sys$output f$getsyi("""boottime""")" > 3 > Once inside "s, you have to use 2 ""s to get 1 ".    Then why did you use 3?2   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanf afeldman & gfigroup.com    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 22:42 CDTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)w* Subject: RE: How know last system restart?- Message-ID: <22OCT200122424781@gerg.tamu.edu>y  ' "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes...e+ }Now, if I wanted to define in my login.comv } @ }uptime=3D=3D the below text, how do I escape the double quotes?  & The easiest way is not to do so, i.e.:  2 $ uptime :== Write Sys$Output F$GetSYI("BOOTTIME")  A If you really want to use the plain old "==" definition operator,h2 you can escape the double quotes by doubling them:  5 $ uptime == "Write Sys$Output F$GetSYI(""BOOTTIME"")"e   I prefer the former.   --- Carl   }> -----Original Message----- A }> From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com] * }> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 11:19 AM }> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- }> Subject: Re: How know last system restart?s }> }>@ }> In article <cb4a5b25.0110220837.4839931f@posting.google.com>,) }>  torpeman@hotmail.com (Benito) writes:r }> > Hello,s }> >M }> > I=B4m new in VMS and i need to know the last system boot date/time, the=- } ) }> > VMS is OpenVMS AXP Version V7.1-1H2.  }> > }> > Can anybody help me.n }> > }> > Thanks & Regards. }>* }> $ write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime") }> }    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2001 00:58:36 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)t- Subject: HSZ40, KZPSA, AlphaStation 200 4/233e3 Message-ID: <Q3L7FjXZCFGD@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  F I recently got ahold of an HSZ40 with some disk shelves and thought itD would be nice to set up a SCSI cluster with the HSZ in the middle atC home.  I've done this with HSZ50s and KZPSA controllers in 4100s ati work without problem.     C At home I have a pair of AlphaStation 200 4/233s, each with a KZPSAuE and the appropriate Y cables, etc.  The SCSI ID for machine A's KZPSA B is 5, machines B's is 6, and the HSZ is 7.  Both boxes are runningH V7.3, have the latest console firmware V7.0-9 and KZPSA firmware, A11.  0 The HSZ is running V31-F of the firmware (IIRC).  E When I try to get this to work the machines will crash at the consoleSF level, or they won't show any of the disks hanging off the HSZ (I have8 a couple of units defined at the HSZ SHOW UNIT level).    A The crashes usually have a footprint starting with something likea  3 Avanti System Machine Check Through Vector 00000660t, logout frame address 0x6048 code 0x100000205  D followed by pages and pages of various bits of stack and error info.B If they don't crash I will see the console complain something like the following...  " waiting for pkb0.6.0.13.0 to stop  CAM SCSI configuration error  C and only the controller will show up in a console SHOW DEV command.u  D Anyone have any luck hanging an HSZ40 off a KZPSA in an AS200 4/233?  E I've had it work with HSZ50s, AS200s, and KZPSAs in the past but thatsD was at an eariler console firmware level, earlier VMS version (whichB since I never get to bootland it should be moot) and, well, not an HSZ40.   TIA, MartymE (wanting to get a cabinet of flashing lights to make the propeller ong# my geek hat spin faster with glee!)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:53:48 GMTc) From: ahlstromc@home.com (Chris Ahlstrom)t, Subject: Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master> Message-ID: <wc3B7.107695$Pr1.27933266@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>  H While stuck in the full lotus position, Scam Report chanted this mantra:  " > Don't choke on your own swill...  + Shut up.  Don't talk to my master that way.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:06:07 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)o Subject: Re: I am changing jobsl0 Message-ID: <00A03E8B.2870A3DB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <U%YA7.776$RL6.8375@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes: >Dear Newsgroup, >PM >I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As of last week I am=M >now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and no longer part ofr >the OpenVMS Marketing group.i >dK >I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing as before, but I  >just wanted to let you know >l >Warm Regards, >  >Sue >P >n     Same pay, different title?  :)  7 Will you still be producing/editting the OpenVMS Times?o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc            tJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:28:58 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: I am changing jobs(> Message-ID: <KzZA7.143881$vq.33495948@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messageb+ news:U%YA7.776$RL6.8375@news.cpqcorp.net...  > Dear Newsgroup,o >nK > I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As of last week I1 amK > now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and no longer partD of > the OpenVMS Marketing group. > L > I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing as before, but I > just wanted to let you knowg   Hey Sue,  I Doesn't matter where you are on the dynamically reconfigurable org chart,e1 you will always be outstanding in your field! ;-}    cheers,e  
 charlie matco6   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:32:54 -0500e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s Subject: RE: I am changing jobs L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DDB1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net]i? > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message   ? > > I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As   > of last week I > am? > > now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and a > no longer part > of  > > the OpenVMS Marketing group.  > > > I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing  > as before, but I > > just wanted to let you know0  2 > Doesn't matter where you are on the dynamically  > reconfigurable org chart,D3 > you will always be outstanding in your field! ;-}e  - Yep -- Charlie Knows What_He's_Talking_About.    Regards,   Chrise    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developero Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");s 'e  a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:53:34 -0400a2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: I am changing jobsd1 Message-ID: <OVZA7.782$RL6.8661@news.cpqcorp.net>   
 I am for now.e   suee  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A03E8B.2870A3DB@SendSpamHere.ORG...C > In article <U%YA7.776$RL6.8375@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski"i$ <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes: > >Dear Newsgroup, > > L > >I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As of last week I amL > >now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and no longer part of > >the OpenVMS Marketing group.o > >nK > >I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing as before, butt IS > >just wanted to let you know > >  > >Warm Regards, > >  > >Sue > >p > >w >k >m  > Same pay, different title?  :) >e9 > Will you still be producing/editting the OpenVMS Times?o >2 > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >4K >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fierysK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:20:17 -0400t* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: I am changing jobsU- Message-ID: <0033000039142708000002L082*@MHS>0   =0ATo steal from Dr. Seuss:2   "I wish you ran the zoo."-   Regards,   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ( > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 2:20 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET! > Subject: RE: I am changing jobsn >y >aC > In article <U%YA7.776$RL6.8375@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski"l7 > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes: >Dear Newsgroup,s > > = > >I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  Ass > of last week I amt= > >now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group ands > no longer part ofa > >the OpenVMS Marketing group.s > >e? > >I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing asd > before, but Iu > >just wanted to let you know > >g > >Warm Regards, > >a > >Sue > >- > >- >- >-  > Same pay, different title?  :) >19 > Will you still be producing/editting the OpenVMS Times?  >j > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > ? >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn 
 > to my fieryn; >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" --n > Calvin & Hobbes  >=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:42:42 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: I am changing jobsp1 Message-ID: <6x%A7.789$RL6.8733@news.cpqcorp.net>a  p In article <00A03E8B.2870A3DB@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: :Same pay, different title?  :)e  G   Same job, same lunch table, different boss.  Donno about her pay. :-)t  8 :Will you still be producing/editting the OpenVMS Times?  D   Sue is doing most everything she was doing before -- including herF   exemplary work on the OpenVMS Times and the Ambassadors' program -- G   but now she directly works for and directly reports into the OpenVMS  /   Engineering group's engineering organization.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:09:34 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>L Subject: Re: I am changing jobsi' Message-ID: <3BD4DF6E.F43C101E@fsi.net>p   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,u > N > I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As of last week I amN > now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and no longer part of > the OpenVMS Marketing group. > L > I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing as before, but I > just wanted to let you know-   Congrats on your new gig, Sue!   --   David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:51:33 -0400n' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org>a Subject: Re: I am changing jobs2+ Message-ID: <3BD50565.1DF67F0@ui.urban.org>h  ; Whew! When I saw the subject, I thought you were moving on.l   Congratulations, Sue.t   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,O > N > I just wanted to let you know that I am changing jobs.  As of last week I amN > now part of the OpenVMS Technical Field Programs group and no longer part of > the OpenVMS Marketing group. > L > I will still be doing pretty much the same the same thing as before, but I > just wanted to let you knowa >  > Warm Regards,i >  > Suet   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/) ' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)e. ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:25:05 GMT1/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)  Subject: Re: It's Friday9 Message-ID: <3bd4b854.171012628@news.directvinternet.com>w  A My 4 year old daughter has her own VMS account on my AlphaStation;F 400/233.  She likes to type "letters" and can spell her own name, so IB set it up to open the editor for her when she logs in.  It's a lotB safer than letting her have at it on the Win95 box.  I still don'tD know how she has changed some of the things she has on that machine.   SteveA  F On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:39:27 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Hans Vlems wrote:> >> I'd say he has VMS well integrated into his family life.... >>  < >> Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message > 0 >> Do you have wife, children, mother, dogs ????! >> Dont you go out to the movie ?U7 >> Dont you go out to walk in the park or ride a bike ?q >> i$ >> My God.... you are VMS addicted ! > E >Yes I have a wife, and a child of 2 who I let "use" my computer (sheTE >likes the mouse clicking and some CDroms). When she is old enough toq> >understand I will teach her the ways of VMS, a few years yet. > & >We have two cats, we live with them! , >Is shopping counted as a leisure activity?  >Addicted to VMS? Maybe! >l >-- ) >Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciencesu >nclews at csc dot com   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAB StevenU@POBoxes.coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:15:23 GMTc3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>e Subject: Re: It's Friday/ Message-ID: <3BD4E02E.E15CB083@cableinet.co.uk>    "Steven P. Underwood" wrote: > C > My 4 year old daughter has her own VMS account on my AlphaStationpH > 400/233.  She likes to type "letters" and can spell her own name, so ID > set it up to open the editor for her when she logs in.  It's a lotD > safer than letting her have at it on the Win95 box.  I still don'tF > know how she has changed some of the things she has on that machine. >  > Steves  eE thats windows for you, you've got to remember its a Personal computersE with a capital P which means its YOURS and NOONE ESLE MESSES WITH IT.  Othwerwise all bets are off.  B OK. I havn't tried NT/2000/ME/XP at home, and I don't want to, I'm scared. E Too much change, not like a VMS upgrade:-). I have better uses for mye time and money.    -- v Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of l! my employers or service provider.,   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:06:24 GMTtF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged1 Message-ID: <Q6_A7.784$RL6.8667@news.cpqcorp.net>-  ` In article <URP8WpoVumTS@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:  K >    If this comes to pass what happens when the goverment gets their hands7C >    on a file of garbage they are convinced is something you have  H >    encrypted? Will they jail you until you tell them how to make sense >    of the garbage? ;-)  ; Some people would say this already happens with the IRS ando  various tax form instructions...   -- n(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have aa5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.i   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2001 00:42:44 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged% Message-ID: <9r2ee4$bht@web.nmti.com>   ) In article <3BD43451.8C37D8D8@127.0.0.1>,-* Nic Clews  <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:H > I guess what I'm trying to say nothing is guaranteed. Air gaps have to > be watertight.  H Some cynical firewall company has started selling an "air gap firewall".  I Near as I can tell it's a proxy server that's only electrically connectednH to one side of the network at a time. Which is, of course, no safer than a regular proxy.   -- t+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.nE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2001 00:44:55 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged% Message-ID: <9r2ei7$bjk@web.nmti.com>-  / In article <3BD444D6.698CAFEF@cableinet.co.uk>,g5 Tim Llewellyn  <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:tI > what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture?n  K Heh. My wife periodically asks me for the root password at work. She hasn't   managed to get it out of me yet.  O (incidentally, it now appears that Mata Hari may have been innocent of treason)p   -- =+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.yE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 20:17:47 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged3 Message-ID: <9g9dCh0AD56a@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  N In article <9r2ei7$bjk@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:1 > In article <3BD444D6.698CAFEF@cableinet.co.uk>,o7 > Tim Llewellyn  <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: J >> what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture? > M > Heh. My wife periodically asks me for the root password at work. She hasn'tn" > managed to get it out of me yet.  E That's a good reason for leaving your yellow sticky notes at work :-)-   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 20:16:30 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)A Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged3 Message-ID: <U6oNtSRHL+Iu@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  N In article <9r2ee4$bht@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:+ > In article <3BD43451.8C37D8D8@127.0.0.1>,m, > Nic Clews  <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:I >> I guess what I'm trying to say nothing is guaranteed. Air gaps have toe >> be watertight.t > J > Some cynical firewall company has started selling an "air gap firewall".  C There may even be two such vendors, starting at least two years ago  for the first.  K > Near as I can tell it's a proxy server that's only electrically connected J > to one side of the network at a time. Which is, of course, no safer than > a regular proxy.  ) Yes, it is a horrible misuse of the term.wN That's marketing, and thus inappropriate for discussion in a VMS newsgroup :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:27:31 -0400a' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>e Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged< Message-ID: <howard-0CB66B.21273122102001@enews.newsguy.com>  H In article <y4d73f1v7u.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,I  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:.  + > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes:I > J > > > In which case you presumably rate stego more highly than crypto? ;-)2 > > Why not do both?  Encrypt first, then hide it. > @ > Just so. Would be happy to sell you something appropriate 8-).   LOL! -- s Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 12:58:06 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.062469.killspam.00be (Wayne Sewell)a Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged. Message-ID: <qbfsMUar11dM@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  ` In article <URP8WpoVumTS@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:1 > In article <3BD388CD.C361C1D3@cablespeed.com>, y5 >    Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:1 >> .I >> I suspect that with the gov't, the level may be high indeed.  However, F >> 2048 or 4096 bit RSA encryption of absolute garbage might keep them >> guessing ;) > K >     Wasn't there a proposal that it would be a criminal offence to refuseMI >     to hand over the keys to an encrypted document when asked for them?: > L >     If this comes to pass what happens when the goverment gets their handsD >     on a file of garbage they are convinced is something you have I >     encrypted? Will they jail you until you tell them how to make senseo >     of the garbage? ;-)o >     O That might be a way to get rid of billy and his spawn once and for all.  ForgetoL the antitrust stuff.  Convince the gubmint that the particular garbage filesN known as Windows 95/98/NT/2000/whatever contain encrypted terrorist manuals, aM complete list of all terrorists in the world, their current locations,  their J bank account numbers, and the favorite kiddie porn of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.     -- oO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxd: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)rO ===============================================================================sH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:21:04 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>b Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged/ Message-ID: <3BD4E183.9B85CB7B@cableinet.co.uk>g   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > P > In article <9r2ei7$bjk@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:3 > > In article <3BD444D6.698CAFEF@cableinet.co.uk>,y9 > > Tim Llewellyn  <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: L > >> what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture? > >dO > > Heh. My wife periodically asks me for the root password at work. She hasn'to$ > > managed to get it out of me yet. > G > That's a good reason for leaving your yellow sticky notes at work :-)s  H you mean you don't mentally encrypt what you write on those sticky notes before you take them home :-)    -- e Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  o  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of i! my employers or service provider.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:39:28 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aug Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged5 Message-ID: <01K9UC5BS3N6006PXN@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>i   Peter da Silva wrote:m  0 >In article <3BD444D6.698CAFEF@cableinet.co.uk>,6 >Tim Llewellyn  <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:J >> what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture? >eL >Heh. My wife periodically asks me for the root password at work. She hasn't! >managed to get it out of me yet.i   Is she a foreign agent?e  B It also gives a new meaning to safe sex -- password protection :-)   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:58:20 GMTa3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>e Subject: Re: Mitnick Uncaged. Message-ID: <3BD4EA3F.EDF650C@cableinet.co.uk>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >  > Peter da Silva wrote:  > 2 > >In article <3BD444D6.698CAFEF@cableinet.co.uk>,8 > >Tim Llewellyn  <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:L > >> what about "pillow talk"? Does being seduced by a spy count as torture? > >sN > >Heh. My wife periodically asks me for the root password at work. She hasn't# > >managed to get it out of me yet.  >  > Is she a foreign agent?  > D > It also gives a new meaning to safe sex -- password protection :-)  E yes, but back on topic, Peter, if you were running VMS you could havet	 given her F OPER and a decent helpdesk application ages ago and if she isn't a spy really (:-))H then that would probably keep your wife happy and out of your UAF etc at the same time.  F All in the best of humour, (I hope) obviously. Execept that the decent	 helpdesk t& application seems to be sadly lacking.   -- Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:36:55 GMT 4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>; Subject: Re: Mondays are More Exciting with TCPIP 5.0A ECO3 @ Message-ID: <rz_A7.201193$bY5.922416@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   John,s  J You should not have had to replace these files.  If you have a log of yourC installation or more information on the problem, can you post that?o   Matt.0  8 "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote in message% news:sbd3f31f.008@AAASMTA.aaas.org...aK I know the release notes for ECO3 are a little long, and maybe I skimmed it G a little too briskly, but did I miss the part about replacing all of mys( configuration files and my printcap.dat?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:11:57 GMTe0 From: Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net>3 Subject: Re: More official info on Compaq/HP merger / Message-ID: <3BD461AE.67DE7706@ne.mediaone.net>    JF Mezei wrote:e > K > What has surprised me was no visible action by Microsoft to help with thee/ > disasters (donations to those funds etc etc).?  G In the interest of fair reporting (not that that's an RFC or anything), B Gates coughed up $10M in the first day or two which would be a few# days' interest on MS' cash-on-hand.r   --  M Monty Brandenberg, Software Consultant                              MCB, Inc. M mcbinc@world.std.com                                          P.O. Box 426188-M mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net                              Cambridge, MA  02142-0021z 617.864.6907   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 20:53:29 GMT! From: Mark Hatch <mhatch@ics.com> J Subject: motifzone.net - the site for Open Motif Developers (monthly post)' Message-ID: <3BD48747.B2279C6D@ics.com>m  D The Motif Zone (http://www.motifzone.net) is the center of a growingH community of open source developers dedicated to the ongoing developmentG and maintenance of Open Motif. In the last 12 months, the MotifZone has B hosted over 500,000 downloads of Open Motif and processed over 30+G Million website hits. With over 4,000 registered members, the MotifZonetE provides an unique site that combines the talents of mission critical > application developers with the innovations of the open source
 community.  A The latest binaries and sources of Open Motif, as well as related.B software, are hosted at the MotifZone and are freely available forE downloads. An anonymous CVS tree is also provided to those that wouldrD like to enhance or just learn more about the GUI toolkit that is theH industry standard on UNIX workstations. In addition, the MotifZone hosts3 the official Open Motif defect tracking system too.e  E A number of community efforts are underway at the MotifZone to extendr  and improve Motif. Specifically: - Embedded Open Motifa - Themes for OpenMotifH - Autoconfigure building of sources (for those preferring an alternative	 to imake)r
 - Tooltips  H For developers looking to program using the Motif toolkit, the MotifZone@ offers the Internet's largest collection of reference materials,E tutorials, technical articles and formal documentation on X and Motif H programming. Hundred's of links are provided to both commercial and open( source tools that can speed development.  A The Open Help Forums provides a selection of channels for postingnG questions and receiving help from your peers. The signal-to-noise ratiobG of these channels is high with questions typically being "on-topic" andsE none of the usual "get rich quick" scams seen on the comp.x.windows.* @ newsgroups. The use of nicknames for  identification provides anH effective barrier to spammers that comb the newsgroups looking for email
 addresses.  H And of course, the MotifZone provides the usual collection of feeds fromC sites like Freshmeat, Slashdot and Linux Today so that you can stayh. current with the latest changes in technology.  < The Motif Zone is sponsored by Integrated Computer SolutionsD (http://www.ics.com), providers of GUI development tools for X/Motif developers.S  E ICS will offer its next public training on Motif and X programming in-H Washington DC, December 3-7. Send email to training@ics.com for details.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 19:53 CDTb' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 2 Subject: Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software- Message-ID: <22OCT200119530985@gerg.tamu.edu>l  1 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...oi }In article <d7791aa1.0110201803.344b18d9@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  } H }> that isn't what it looked like to me ... i know many people that workG }> in caps ... vms doesn't normally care ... and i like caps, esp. whenaK }> programming ... mcba dibol got me started ... and i like it!  and i knowtI }> a lot of other people that like and work w/caps also ... w/vms this is. }> not something new!e }  }VMS is not case sensitive.e }  }English is. } + }Please learn to capitalize your sentences.o }  }This is not a "board".o } J }To some it is a newsgroup, to others a mailing list, but never a "board". }  }Learn to use the language."    2 Everybody was a neophyte to newsgroups originally.  8 That said, I think the inadvertent comedy comes from his "this is not something new!"  C He's right. All caps is not something new. It is old. Very old. AllcD caps has not been the way to go for a long time - probably a good 20D years. I recall using mixed case on VMS when I first used it back inF late 1982. At that time (and in that place) there were some people who0 still used all caps. That was then, this is now.  E It's been so long since it was common that anything in all caps looksj weird to me, and has for years.   G And then there's the typographical convention in places like this that, A since typefaces are not under your control, capitals are used for B emphasis in small doeses and are considered to be like shouting in large doses.  F As far as programming goes, in languages that are not case sensitive IK tend to use mixed case for comments, lowercase for all my stuff (variables,cG function names, etc), capitalize the languages statements (i.e. "Open")tH and "intercap" compound statements ("EndIf" in DCL, for example) and useF all upper case for fixed key words, constants, and labels. So I end up+ with things like (using DCL as an example):N  * $ now = F$CVTime("","ABSOLUTE","DATETIME")   But maybe that's just me.n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:24:16 -0700w$ From: "Brad Hughes" <brad@tgsmc.com>2 Subject: RE: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software9 Message-ID: <IBEOIOAGLFJNHHCJKBLFGEFFCAAA.brad@tgsmc.com>-        > -----Original Message-----;     > From: Carl Perkins [mailto:carl@gergl1.gerg.tamu.edu]N,     > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 5:53 PM     > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com78     > Subject: Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software
     >[...]M     > And then there's the typographical convention in places like this that,cG     > since typefaces are not under your control, capitals are used for H     > emphasis in small doeses and are considered to be like shouting in     > large doses.  @ And then there's the bandwidth issue:  since capital letters areB larger they use up more bandwidth.  It's a waste of electrons.  :)   Brad   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:18:26 GMTP3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>n2 Subject: Re: New to OpenVMS - Looking for software/ Message-ID: <3BD4E0E6.BB5AD4EB@cableinet.co.uk>"   Carl Perkins wrote:y  hH > all upper case for fixed key words, constants, and labels. So I end up- > with things like (using DCL as an example):4 > , > $ now = F$CVTime("","ABSOLUTE","DATETIME") >  > But maybe that's just me.s  A if its any consolation, I'm a bit like that too, depending on the2 limitationsi of the language.  7 However, usenet/infovax is not a programming language. t  F However, also, Bob, I actually don't really care whether you caps lock: all the time or not. Keep on doing it if thats your thing.   > 
 > --- Carl   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  a  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of s! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:02:40 -0200 (EDT)e From: becherini@vortex.ufrgs.bry= Subject: NIS (network  information  nameservice) in OpenVMS ? , Message-ID: <01102216023953@vortex.ufrgs.br>  : Received:	by vortex.ufrgs.br (V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2 Alpha)+ From:		Fabio Becherini <becherini@ufrgs.br>i Reply-to:	<becherini@ufrgs.br>< Comments:	@vortex.ufrgs.br, vortex(46.451)::, psi%........::2 References:	BR, TCHE, UFRGS, CPD network, Cia-INFO- Organization:	Cia-INFO /DRS /CPD-UFRGS /UFRGSo< ____________________________________________________________     	Hi !M   	Do you know if is it possible- 	to run NIS (network information nameservice)o
 	in OpenVMS ?m  ( 	If yes, both as a client and a server ?   	Our environment is:  9   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0Ae1   on a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2d   	Best regards,  <   __________________________________________________________=  |                                                          |-=  | Fabio Becherini                 Fabio.Becherini@ufrgs.br |0=  |                              Webmaster, Postmaster UFRGS |M=  |                          Grupo de Apoio a Aplicacoes WEB |o=  |                 Grupo de Suporte a Sistemas Operacionais |P=  | Centro de Atendimento a Incidentes de Seguranca da UFRGS |e=  |     Coordenacao da Cia-INFO (c) Ophicin@ das Informacoes |o=  |__________________________________________________________|c=  |                                                          |h=  |    CPD-UFRGS - Centro de Processamento de Dados da UFRGS |f=  |                                Divisao de Rede e Suporte | =  |                Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul |2=  |                     (55)(51) 3316-5041 / 3331-1215 (fax) |l=  |   Rua Ramiro Barcelos, 2574 - Porto Alegre - RS - Brasil |I=  |__________________________________________________________|.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:39:47 GMT34 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>A Subject: Re: NIS (network  information  nameservice) in OpenVMS ?.@ Message-ID: <7C_A7.201248$bY5.922494@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   Fabio,  D There is not a Compaq NIS solution for VMS.  (I haven't searched the freeware or public domain).w  L What others have done in this regard is to use LDAP or NT Domains.  Not sure4 if either of these are possibilities for you though.   Matt.   , <becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br> wrote in message& news:01102216023953@vortex.ufrgs.br...< > Received: by vortex.ufrgs.br (V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2 Alpha), > From: Fabio Becherini <becherini@ufrgs.br>  > Reply-to: <becherini@ufrgs.br>> > Comments: @vortex.ufrgs.br, vortex(46.451)::, psi%........::4 > References: BR, TCHE, UFRGS, CPD network, Cia-INFO/ > Organization: Cia-INFO /DRS /CPD-UFRGS /UFRGS > > ____________________________________________________________ >u >e > Hi ! >r > Do you know if is it possiblem. > to run NIS (network information nameservice) > in OpenVMS ? >n) > If yes, both as a client and a server ?r >m > Our environment is:g > ; >   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0Ai3 >   on a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2e >n > Best regards,. > > >   __________________________________________________________? >  |                                                          |-? >  | Fabio Becherini                 Fabio.Becherini@ufrgs.br |4? >  |                              Webmaster, Postmaster UFRGS |e? >  |                          Grupo de Apoio a Aplicacoes WEB |p? >  |                 Grupo de Suporte a Sistemas Operacionais |n? >  | Centro de Atendimento a Incidentes de Seguranca da UFRGS | ? >  |     Coordenacao da Cia-INFO (c) Ophicin@ das Informacoes |I? >  |__________________________________________________________|v? >  |                                                          |t? >  |    CPD-UFRGS - Centro de Processamento de Dados da UFRGS |t? >  |                                Divisao de Rede e Suporte |e? >  |                Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul |f? >  |                     (55)(51) 3316-5041 / 3331-1215 (fax) |n? >  |   Rua Ramiro Barcelos, 2574 - Porto Alegre - RS - Brasil |u? >  |__________________________________________________________|o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:44:12 GMT 0 From: "Xeno Chauvin" <arfulbrank@houston.rr.com>+ Subject: Re: OT: Let's make one thing cleare9 Message-ID: <wy%A7.3431$NP1.294289@typhoon.austin.rr.com>s  ; "Dennis Miller Sucks" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message . news:Xns914257DC2BFADK732J78A5@24.9.139.141...L > Isn't that the purpose of politics in the first place?  The world would beH > a better place if politicians and lawyers suddenly disappeared off the face > of the earth.=  ? That's just what Osama, the Mullahs, and the Taliban think too.n( Autocracy is good, THEOCRACY is perfect!: I do agree that politicians and lawyers are a drain on any" society but  they have their uses.< IF populations (citizens) got their heads out of their asses5 and did their own "politicking" then we wouldn't need=4 "politicians". The laws would (?) be less convoluted1 and we wouldn't need some ninny to "read" for us.e Xeno   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:09:36 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in CM1 Message-ID: <Q9_A7.785$RL6.8447@news.cpqcorp.net>e  ] In article <5wSA7.78$La5.3760@news.get2net.dk>, "Allan Hansen" <abh@cortexconsult.dk> writes:oB :Does anyone have an example of how to do the equivalent of an SETF :FILE/ATTRIB=(RFM:FIX etc...) in a C program (not by using system() or
 :similar) ???u  H   I certainly have that stuff around that does this (and stuff that goesI   directly after the XQP), but some background on the particular problem  G   might also be useful -- it might well be possible to create the file iG   "correctly" within the C code rather than resetting it, for instance.n  G   (Also, the OpenVMS version and platform, since that can be involved.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:18:38 -00004/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>t! Subject: Re: SET FILE/ATTRIB in C:/ Message-ID: <tt939etdttctc4@corp.supernews.com>   3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:l_ : In article <5wSA7.78$La5.3760@news.get2net.dk>, "Allan Hansen" <abh@cortexconsult.dk> writes:eD : :Does anyone have an example of how to do the equivalent of an SETH : :FILE/ATTRIB=(RFM:FIX etc...) in a C program (not by using system() or : :similar) ???   J :   I certainly have that stuff around that does this (and stuff that goesK :   directly after the XQP), but some background on the particular problem aI :   might also be useful -- it might well be possible to create the file II :   "correctly" within the C code rather than resetting it, for instance.e  I :   (Also, the OpenVMS version and platform, since that can be involved.)e  < Excellent point ... C programmers can use "rfm=fix", "mrs=",< etc. on the fopen() or create() function calls.  The options9 are not listed in HELP CC RUN CREATE but I have seen them < listed in the DEC C manual that comes on CD and presume they7 can also be found on http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/r   -- V -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:51:02 GMTi3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)e! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.A- Message-ID: <GKTA7.5$M3.40@news-srv1.fmr.com>h  	 Hi Terry,e  F I'm assuming that this is one of the "hot items" that showed up in theR compaqworkinggroup on-line surveys this past spring and summer.  Any feedback from2 COMPAQ regarding fixing this long-standing issue??   Thanks,v Bradc In article <l9ki8SjIX1SP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:rA >Then Terry Kennedy deserves a finders fee for the $1 item CompaqxC >just told me did not exist, but now has shipped once Terry gave mew >the part number.t >> >Larry Kilgallen >ud >In article <MlEA7.4$M3.26@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: >> Hi Terry, >> y[ >> Will you get a "finder's fee" from COMPAQ if they make the sale on this particular item?d >> . >> ;-) >> a	 >> --Brad x >> In article <YpDA7.140469$vq.32510689@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >>>u4 >>>"john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message< >>>news:BaBA7.426764$8c3.75973218@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...O >>>> I am trying to assemble a proposal to put an application our our Alpha VMS:O >>>> system.  In order to push this proposal I need to do a cost justification;eN >>>> alas, without the E-store, or Business Link, I cannot get all the pricing >>>IM >>>> need.  Does anyone happen to have the list price of SNARJE for VMS for a K >>>> workstation (ES40 /dual 833 mhz processors).  If I can get even a gooda >>>guessG >>>> for this today (Sunday), I can have a proposal to submit tomorrow.  >>>> >>>-L >>>Ah yes, additional evidence that Compaq's Web sites are the apotheosis ofB >>>squatulence. Thanks to a reseller friend at Sequel Data Systems< >>>(www.sequeldata.com) we have the following information... >>> O >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>---- + >>>QL-10UAE-AA  Compaq SNA Remote Job Entryt >>>h5 >>> Estim. Lead Time (Business Days) - 1 Day Shipmentp. >>>Includes 1-Year Product Foundation Warranty >>>PAK Delivery Method: Paper  >>>o >>>oH >>> NET TOTAL AMOUNT                                           $1,671.00 >>>r >>>Hope this helps!e >>>t >>>Terry Shannon1 >>>Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq ( >>>Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc. >>>  >>>o >> Bradford J. Hamiltonc# >> bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home)   >> brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work) >>  > >> "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's" >-- O >==============================================================================mJ >The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingK >     offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willdJ >     I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsI >     to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival  >     of the online community.",O >==============================================================================u Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)S  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2001 03:22:07 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.l- Message-ID: <871yjvcwf4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c  w > In article <8QKA7.141428$vq.32961076@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:n  L > > Maybe the HP acquisition will result in online services that don't suck.  H >    I doubt it.  When I was buying HP workstations even experienced HP I >    sales folk couldn't order a system by looking at their own catalogs.o  3 Probably trying to figure out where to fit windows.g  ? Best I've had, and I am not joking at all, is one of the morons  ask who made HP UX...d   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.,@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 15:36:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)X! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.f3 Message-ID: <$q5g8aI7VKDR@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  / Well, Compaq decided to shut down BusinessLink.a  F They didn't make it clear whether that was a reaction to the fact that customers liked it.r   Larry Kilgallene  c In article <GKTA7.5$M3.40@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:g > Hi Terry,l > H > I'm assuming that this is one of the "hot items" that showed up in theT > compaqworkinggroup on-line surveys this past spring and summer.  Any feedback from4 > COMPAQ regarding fixing this long-standing issue?? > 	 > Thanks,a > Brade > In article <l9ki8SjIX1SP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: B >>Then Terry Kennedy deserves a finders fee for the $1 item CompaqD >>just told me did not exist, but now has shipped once Terry gave me >>the part number. >> >>Larry Kilgallen  >>e >>In article <MlEA7.4$M3.26@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:o
 >>> Hi Terry,g >>> \ >>> Will you get a "finder's fee" from COMPAQ if they make the sale on this particular item? >>>  >>> ;-)e >>> 
 >>> --Brady >>> In article <YpDA7.140469$vq.32510689@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:i >>>>5 >>>>"john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messageb= >>>>news:BaBA7.426764$8c3.75973218@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...IP >>>>> I am trying to assemble a proposal to put an application our our Alpha VMSP >>>>> system.  In order to push this proposal I need to do a cost justification;O >>>>> alas, without the E-store, or Business Link, I cannot get all the pricingc >>>>IkN >>>>> need.  Does anyone happen to have the list price of SNARJE for VMS for aL >>>>> workstation (ES40 /dual 833 mhz processors).  If I can get even a good	 >>>>guesseH >>>>> for this today (Sunday), I can have a proposal to submit tomorrow. >>>>>a >>>>M >>>>Ah yes, additional evidence that Compaq's Web sites are the apotheosis of C >>>>squatulence. Thanks to a reseller friend at Sequel Data Systemsa= >>>>(www.sequeldata.com) we have the following information...t >>>>P >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>----, >>>>QL-10UAE-AA  Compaq SNA Remote Job Entry >>>>6 >>>> Estim. Lead Time (Business Days) - 1 Day Shipment/ >>>>Includes 1-Year Product Foundation Warranty  >>>>PAK Delivery Method: Paper >>>> >>>>I >>>> NET TOTAL AMOUNT                                           $1,671.00r >>>> >>>>Hope this helps! >>>> >>>>Terry Shannont2 >>>>Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq) >>>>Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.  >>>> >>>> >>> Bradford J. Hamilton$ >>> bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home)! >>> brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)d >>> ? >>> "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"u >>-- RP >>==============================================================================K >>The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything L >>     offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willK >>     I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningseJ >>     to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival  >>     of the online community."P >>============================================================================== > Bradford J. Hamilton" > bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) > brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)  > = > "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's". --  N ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything J      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsiH      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:29:29 GMTy4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: SNARJE Info Snagged.f> Message-ID: <Zc0B7.144571$vq.33586910@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  @ "Bradford J. Hamilton" <sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com> wrote in message' news:GKTA7.5$M3.40@news-srv1.fmr.com...w > Hi Terry,i > H > I'm assuming that this is one of the "hot items" that showed up in theF > compaqworkinggroup on-line surveys this past spring and summer.  Any
 feedback frome4 > COMPAQ regarding fixing this long-standing issue??  I Yes, IIRC Compaq's squatulent Web presence was an item of interest in theC$ www.compaqworkinggroup.org survey...   The response last Spring was.../  K The inputs from the advocacy program have highlighted our users frustrationMK and loss of time associated with the inability to quickly find the data youi" are looking for on Compaq websites  I .Compaq today is revamping their web infrastructure and user interface toi; ensure a dramatically improved web experience for our users5  A .We plan to move information on older products and technology, as_( appropriate, to support sites on our web  K .Our new web plans include improved tools for doing business with Compaq oni
 our web sites   
 .Stay Tuned!!u   For what it's worth...   terry s    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 12:43:55 -0700< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)+ Subject: Re: SuperDLT on older (EV5) Alphase= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0110221143.4ac14675@posting.google.com>d  s JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) wrote in message news:<9pifun$s9a$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>... J > We want to replace the trusty TZ88 DLT drive on our AS 800 with a CompaqF > SuperDLT drive (with an Ultra 2 SCSI interface card).  Compaq hasn'tL > qualfied the drive with the AlphaServer 800, but have no reason to believe& > it won't work.  The OS is VMS 7.2-1. > M > Has anybody tried with combination that experienced unforseen difficulties?PK > Would the 11 MB/sec transfer rate on the SDLT present a problem if backup_M > can't feed it that fast (I don't see anything in the specs about dual speed9 > support).m  C I'm interested too, but want to put it on an AlphaStation 500.  ThewD specs say that it will work in either LVD or SE mode; anyone know ifC the standard SE interface on the AS500 will fit the bill?  I'm alsoC% curious about data starvation issues.   ; Basically, my need is for compatibility, not just capacity.d   Aaroni   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 20:52:07 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)D Subject: Re: TELNET sessions not closed, limit exceeded, how to fix?) Message-ID: <9r20tn$rse$1@hecate.umd.edu>f  K I posted comp.os.vms about this problem last week.  As a quick refresh, thebG problem is that the count of active incoming telnet sessions sometimes xM does not get decremented when a user logs out.  The user's process and its TNOJ device goes away, but the BG device stays.  Eventually the telnet limit is- reached and no one can log in via that means.   H One respondant (Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) suggested thatG I replace the files TCPIP$INETACP.EXE and TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE.  He said:r  * >I had this same problem a few months ago.2 >The CSC gave me a TCPIP patch. You should contact >Compaq. >A* >My operating system is OpenVMS 7.2 and my >TCPIP Services is 5.0A - ECO 3_ >_$ >I applied the TCPIP$INETACP.EXE and# >TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE and SOLVED !!!!   G This person could not supply me with the name of the patch, however.  I I checked Compaq's web site and noticed a patch named TCPIPALP_E03A51 (file,I DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0501-153-4.PCSI) that has the following descriptioncH in it under the heading "Corrections for COMPAQ TCP/IP Services V5.1 NET* Images", ECO 2 updates, ECO L (web address@ http://ftp1.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2-2/tcpip/5.1/ tcpipalp_e03a51.README):   ECO L_   Problem:9 	When a Server process created for a Listen service exits : 	we fail to detect the process termination.  This can lead= 	to undeleteable BG devices hanging around as well as hanging  	client processes.  	 Solution:a= 	In the routine PROCESS_CREATE_LISTEN, we were not using the l; 	proper termination mailbox in most cases.  A simple fix to3# 	this routine resolves the problem.R  
 Reference:. 	PTR 70-5-1632 / CFS.82526 / Req Id: MGO67116A   ---_  : Does anyone know if this is the patch that does the trick?  I The problem is, this patch is for OpenVMS 7.2-2 and TCPIP V5.1, while I'm + running OpenVMS 7.1-2 and TCPIP 5.0A ECO 3.:  K Does anyone know if the images for this particular fix have been backportednH to the level of VMS I'm running?  If so, where can I find them?  If theyE are available only on a trial basis, I'll accept them like that.  I'deK rather get such images from a trusted source, though, rather than someone'se anonymous ftp site.a  E Otoh, the above ECO L may not be the correct fix.  After all, it only G replaces TCPIP$INETACP.EXE, not TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE.  Maybe someone elseT0 knows which patch is correct, and can inform me?   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:39:51 +0100l: From: "hassani youssouf&toko suzuki" <maore@freenet.co.uk>M Subject: Re: The most hated country in the world ( was Re: Bomb The Mosques )-: Message-ID: <3bd47676_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>  / because muslims are filthy pathetic scroungers.F; "Dennis Miller Sucks" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in messagep. news:Xns9142573B16A1BK732J78A5@24.9.139.141...G > I guess if you say something often enough you'll believe it sooner orvL > later.  If everyone hates us so much, why does everyone want to come here?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:45:56 -0400l' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org>a% Subject: Re: TPU/EVE Spelling Checkere, Message-ID: <3BD50414.2A393556@ui.urban.org>  D Within EVE, HELP SPELL says in part: "Runs DECspell (if installed on your system)."  : You can get DECspell from the OpenVMS Freeware CD or from:9 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/index.htmlt  C I'm not aware of medical dictionaries (not my area), but if you canaB get a list of words spelled correctly into a plain text file (justF words and white space, no punctuation), DECspell can use it. You might do something like this:n/ $ spell /format medical.txt /output=medical.lgpo@ (where .lgp is the default file type for DECspell dictionaries).   Christopher Jovais wrote:a >  > Greetings, > I > I know this has been discussed over the years but I didn't find much inRE > the FAQ and the old DECUS site only talked about DECspell with EDT.mG > What is currently available as far as a spelling checker for TPU/EVE?<J > Is anyone aware of a medical dictionary that has been utilized under the	 > editor?D >  > Many thanks.J > ________________________________________________________________________ > J >  Christopher Jovais                   e-mail: cjovais@radiology.ucsf.edu > < >  tel: 415-502-5323                       fax: 415-502-5836J > ________________________________________________________________________   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/) ' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/) . ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:56:01 GMT  From: foobar+ Subject: Re: VMS future, a sense of deja vu,1 Message-ID: <3bd4871e.21127529@enews.newsguy.com>T  ? 	Man, if u were at war and your weapons were ran by a computer,e  would u bet your life on windoz?  @ On 15 Oct 2001 13:42:13 GMT, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote:  * >Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:J >: you are forgetting the military which is a large vms base ... and they O >: are not giving up vms security and reliability for windows??? IIS??? no way!  >:G >Except for the U.S. Navy's belief that Microsoft will save them money:t > 1 >   http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.htmle% >   GCN: Navy carrier to run Win 2000i >aF >  "Lockheed Martin officials selected Microsoft as a subcontractor onH >   July 13, said Rich Lockwood, director of advanced naval and command,D >   control, communications, computers and intelligence programs forA >   Lockheed Martin Naval Electronics and Surveillance Systems inj >   Moorestown, N.J. >,I >   Working with Windows 2000 and its successor operating systems "shouldlJ >   reduce lifecycle crewing and maintenance costs, as well as procurementI >   costs," he said. "They will be running Windows or `Son of Windows' by " >   the time this ship deploys." " > / >But there may still be some hope for the Navy:  >a5 >   http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7488925.htmly: >   Navy joins open-source effort -  Tech News -  CNET.com >nJ >  "The U.S. Naval Oceanographic Office, which relies on Linux for many ofI >   its information-gathering activities, has linked with the Open SourceiI >   Software Institute (OSSI) to study how the Navy might improve its usesC >   of open-source programs. A cooperative research and developmentnI >   agreement between the two organizations is designed both to produce apH >   technical report and recommendations and to create links between the5 >   software industry and the Department of Defense."z >o >--Jerry Lesliea   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:08:59 -0700o< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>N Subject: Re: VMS server file sharing with W2K clients: NFS and Pathworks grief) Message-ID: <3BD498FB.EC006F5B@intel.com>    Ben Armstrong wrote:   > Hi,h >oC > We're looking for file sharing solutions in an evolving VMS + W2K-
 > network. >-@ > We have implemented for some time Pathworks V5.0F ECO 2 with aI > Compaq-supplied patch that enables it to work with earlier W2K systems.pF > However, Service Pack 2 or higher for W2K (which presumably means XPI > too) breaks authentication. This is a known problem and the recommended . > fix is apparently to upgrade to Pathworks 7. >tJ > Well, licensing for Pathworks 7 would be rather costly, so we're lookingG > for a reliable low-cost solution to offer file shares from VMS to W2Kc > clients.  Any suggestions?  G     I know well the V5.0F problems.  I recently completed an upgrade toxF V6.0C-ECO (which is really V6.0D, but never mind...).  I've never beenC a Pathworks proponent, in fact, I actively resisted it at my formereD employer in favor of an NFS solution.  Turns out that 6.0D is prettyD nice, using server-based licensing is pretty cost effective, and youD don't suffer from the <LF><CR> disease.  V6.0D, while not officiallyC supported with W2K SP2 does _work_ correctly with W2K SP2.  It alsos2 gets rid of the ugly "GUI" of V5.0 and previous...  F     Note that if you go the NFS root, beware that ACLs can cause a lotD of trouble, and all your old Pathworks shares have Pathworks ACLs onF them.  Multinet has a logical name to disable processing VMS ACLs.  OfC course, that defeats the reason the (non-Pathworks) ACLs are there!:       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:01:36 GMTh" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please+ Message-ID: <3BD46E74.ACB9CD56@cumulus.com>n   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote: > K > > Yes, it's true.  But if you buy a new machine with XP pre-installed itsI > > not an issue.w > >yC > > The whole thing centers on their paranoia over software piracy.d > = > wasn't one of the reasons Windows became so popular becauseoA > it was so "easy" to pirate? Not that I ever have anything to doo? > with pirate software myself, btw. Look at Cubase in the musica5 > software market for another example of this effect.n >   D I know... warez (sp?) has XP already cracked from what I understand.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2001 13:00:21 -0700< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich), Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0110221200.28ca09ac@posting.google.com>5  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BD32238.55FFAAF3@videotron.ca>...$I > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XP  > operating system.y > M > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there are M > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clustering8 > etc etc) ? > = > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?g  E From Microsoft's site (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/) I've beenn< able to glean this list of "new features" that either a) putD technology into Windows that is not a function of the OS (e.g., ZIP,A firewall), b) put technology into Windows that has an establishedrC commercial presence by other software vendors (thereby removing 3rdnE party's added value) (e.g., firewall, CD writing), c) breaks existingnE long-time established standards (usually through the 2nd or 3rd phase>A of EEE*) (e.g., Apple QuickTime), or d) breaks existing standards. through omission (e.g. TWAIN).  A (And on a personal note, I can only feel really, really good thataA Compaq and Microsoft killed NT on Alpha now, after looking at ther following list.)  C * EEE = Embrace, Extend, Extinguish -- MS's way to destroy industrynD standards and cross platform interoperability/compatibility and take control of a technology.     The list....   Windows XP "features">0 - ZIP file compression (goodbye WinZip & PKware)% - Data encryption (goodbye PGP & GPG)l- - CD writing (goodbye CDRWIN and CD Composer)a' - Firewall (goodbye Sygate and Wingate)s- - NAT/Internet connection sharing (bye again)>% - Remote desktop (goodbye PCanywhere)e. - Instant Messaging (goodbye ICQ/AIM/Yahoo IM)4 - TWAIN standard (goodbye all you low-cost scanners)F - Scanning and digital photography manipulation (hello, M$'s preferred photo printers)t   IE 6 (included with XP)>% - Embedded QuickTime web pages broken & - Embedded Real media web pages broken - Java   Media Player (included with XP)C8 - automatic conversion of MP3's to proprietary MS format  F That's just for a starter, after a quick perusal of the features list.D  I can only wonder if there will be legal repercussions from some ofD these companies that see their livelihood assimilated by the Borg of/ Redmond.  Not that it did Netscape much good...>   AaronE   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:27:14 +0200c  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please+ Message-ID: <VA.00000492.2b57f70e@sture.ch>   S In article <8af17fe1.0110221200.28ca09ac@posting.google.com>, Aaron Sakovich wrote:ac > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BD32238.55FFAAF3@videotron.ca>...oK > > OK, Microsoft is attempting to trumpet its new revolutionary Windows XPo > > operating system.A > > O > > What is radically different in XP than in previous versions ? Are there are=O > > serious imporvements in terms of an "enterprise" side of things (clusteringe > > etc etc) ? > > ? > > What about on desktops, are there any significant changes ?e > G > From Microsoft's site (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/) I've beens> > able to glean this list of "new features" that either a) putF > technology into Windows that is not a function of the OS (e.g., ZIP,C > firewall), b) put technology into Windows that has an established=E > commercial presence by other software vendors (thereby removing 3rdnG > party's added value) (e.g., firewall, CD writing), c) breaks existingnG > long-time established standards (usually through the 2nd or 3rd phase=C > of EEE*) (e.g., Apple QuickTime), or d) breaks existing standardsl  > through omission (e.g. TWAIN). > C > (And on a personal note, I can only feel really, really good thatuC > Compaq and Microsoft killed NT on Alpha now, after looking at thei > following list.) > E > * EEE = Embrace, Extend, Extinguish -- MS's way to destroy industryiF > standards and cross platform interoperability/compatibility and take > control of a technology. > 
 > The list...= >  > Windows XP "features"-2 > - ZIP file compression (goodbye WinZip & PKware)' > - Data encryption (goodbye PGP & GPG)n/ > - CD writing (goodbye CDRWIN and CD Composer)f) > - Firewall (goodbye Sygate and Wingate)h/ > - NAT/Internet connection sharing (bye again)y' > - Remote desktop (goodbye PCanywhere)e0 > - Instant Messaging (goodbye ICQ/AIM/Yahoo IM)6 > - TWAIN standard (goodbye all you low-cost scanners)H > - Scanning and digital photography manipulation (hello, M$'s preferred > photo printers)A >  > IE 6 (included with XP)g' > - Embedded QuickTime web pages broken ( > - Embedded Real media web pages broken > - Java > ! > Media Player (included with XP)k: > - automatic conversion of MP3's to proprietary MS format > H > That's just for a starter, after a quick perusal of the features list.F >  I can only wonder if there will be legal repercussions from some ofF > these companies that see their livelihood assimilated by the Borg of1 > Redmond.  Not that it did Netscape much good...n >  > Aaroni >l  L From http://www.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2001/10/08/file_monopoly/index1.html  B "The trouble is, even if some court orders Microsoft to throw RealC Player into the Windows package, it doesn't make much difference iftE most users can't figure out how to switch the default player of music.A files from Windows Media to Real. When Joe User clicks on a music G file, even if he likes Real Player and prefers to use it, Windows MediacD Player will open and play the file. Unless Joe is a power user or anD extremely persistent fellow, he will eventually give up on Real. TheI competitor's software will sit on the hard drive, unused, while Microsofti takes over yet another market."p   ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:49:13 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <3BD48645.40D522A5@videotron.ca>   Michael Zarlenga wrote:hE > One big difference (IMO) : unlike DEC/VMS, Microsoft keeps crankingME > up the heat with every new release.  And I think this will continueeE > unabated until enough people jump out of the pot to precipitate no-  > ticeable revenue drops.d  L Since Windows 95 that was introduced with much fanfare and people queuing upL at midnight to buy their copies,haven't successive releases of windows drawn# less and less attention and sales ?   . Didn't Windows 2000 provide lacklustre sales ?  J Is it possible that XP sales will be limited to sales of new home PCs withM enterprises wiping out XP from newly purchased machines and installing  older $ NT versions from their own library ?  L Will the sale of 8086 machines WITHOUT AN OS start to grow ? Is Dell allowedI to sell a PC without Windows installed at a proce lower than one that hasi	 windows ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:00:43 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <3BD488F7.6362E703@videotron.ca>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:= > wasn't one of the reasons Windows became so popular becausea > it was so "easy" to pirate?   A Yep. The market for those "cheap and affordable"  PCs was full ofIG basement-shops who assembled many PCs and installed the same version of C Windows and Office on all of them and sold them at very low prices.   I XP hopes to kill that market. Perhaps this is one reason comanies such as M Compaq are happy because that strategy will boost sales and remove a downwardh! pressure component for PC prices.t  M Microsoft will stop growing. It needs to find a way to make itself profitable  without growth.3  I We may hope that this XP strategy may backfire and kill Microsoft. But ifcN there is one thing Bill Gates is good at is marketing and convincing crowds toJ buy his inferior product. It is reasonable to expect Gates to know exactlyN where the limit is and that his XP strategy won't go over that limit and won't start a mass exodus.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:04:56 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please, Message-ID: <3BD489F4.B34984C9@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote:,L > > Too bad some company can't make a home version of vms. At least it would > > be stable. > >n > # > It's called the hobbyist program.P  M But you need to renew your license every year, and not everyone has access toiN the hobbyist programme. You need to have some membership number in some cloudyL organisation that replaced what used to be DECUS but only exists in the USA.  B I would much rather see DFWLUG who are to be applauded, lauded andI congratulated for offering this service accept ANYONE and issue their ownI/ membership numbers that you could use to renew.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:43:01 GMTe3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>a, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please. Message-ID: <3BD4D88E.B5CA948@cableinet.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:$ >  > David Froble wrote:eN > > > Too bad some company can't make a home version of vms. At least it would > > > be stable. > > >c > >t% > > It's called the hobbyist program.l > O > But you need to renew your license every year, and not everyone has access to5P > the hobbyist programme. You need to have some membership number in some cloudyN > organisation that replaced what used to be DECUS but only exists in the USA. > D > I would much rather see DFWLUG who are to be applauded, lauded andK > congratulated for offering this service accept ANYONE and issue their own 1 > membership numbers that you could use to renew.4  E also, if say, you develop a neat home automation software package forr VMS E or whatever for your own amusement on hobbyist, you can't then decidehF you want to help enlighten the world to VMS by marketting it to othersA who are running the hobbyist program at home because they got theU hardwareG AND their home/small buisiness use VMS licences cheap enough to make it A practicable. That's how I understand it anyway, of course I am noe lawyer.o  F This is one reason I have yet to sucumb to a home hobbiest system. I'mH scared I might develop something I or someone else might want to market  on it.     --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  t  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of t! my employers or service provider.c   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2001 21:36 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)g, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please- Message-ID: <22OCT200121363170@gerg.tamu.edu>r  1 koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes...h` }In article <3BD38A02.30BD4053@cablespeed.com>, Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:K }> Can one relate this new license scheme to the existing license scheme ofEI }> OpenVMS?  Seems to me that one beef this newsgroup has always had withrH }> OpenVMS is the licensing of OS and layered products, etc.  Of course,K }> the "downfall" of OpenVMS is not due to licensing policies alone, but it K }> seems that those policies have had their effect.  One can only hope that ! }> the same applies to Microsoft._ }> _ } F }   If I add memory or hard disk to a VMS system, I just boot and run.C }   Maybe I'll autogen and/or init the disk, but meanwhile it's all/' }   thier and everything keeps working.c } D }   There's an implication that if you do either of these on your XPD }   system it stops running until you get a go ahead from Microsoft.C }   You may have to contect your software vendor for every hardwareT% }   upgrade and perhaps some repairs.p  I This is not quite the case. You are allowed some number of changed before0J you have to call MS and reactivate, and that number is aparently somethingH like 4 or 5 (or maybe even 6) component changes. MS also claims that youL can reactivate several times before they start to get suspicious of piratingL (which would make sense - if you are selling a pirated version, you'd expect; to see a bunch of activations with the same serial number).c  B It is not clear what counts as a change, but it looks to be fairlyA loose. I.E. if you swap your video card, that is a change. If yourC swap it a second time, it appears that this may still count as only D one change since only one component is different than the originallyB activated configuration (although it is not clear to me if this isA the case or not - it should be as it would be easier to write the0A software to do it this way). So if you are allowed 5 changes, youeC could swap your video card, swap your hard drive, add a second hardeE drive, swap your CD for a DVD, and add memory (and you could swap anyiG of the already swapped parts for other parts, or add even more memeory,aH without it counting as another part - that is, if they are comparing theD current configuration to the original configuration rather than just4 incrementing a counter each time something changes).  G If you exceed the limit of changes, it is just another connection to MSSH (via the net or a phone call) to reactivate. This may be irritating, butB it isn't likely to be a problem for most people. I expect that theC vast majority of PC owners never change anything, and those that dooD usually only change maybe three things: adding memory, upgrading the? video card, adding a second hard drive or swapping the existing  one for a bigger one.y  D I don't know what swapping motherboards counts as under this scheme.C It might require reactivation regardless of what else did or didn't.C change (and if it doesn't, it could still count for a good 3 thingsPF or more changeing since you usually also change at least the processorE and memory when you change the motherboard). Again, this is not clear D to me. I'm no XP expert - I've payed some attention to news about itE and fiddled with the Pro version for a few minutes a couple of times.sF I havn't done an activation. There are currently two XP systems on ourH net so one of the occasions was to mess with it to figure out how to getE them to talk to the Samba server I'm running on VMS - which isn't tooeH hard to do (but the connection is slow (the W2K buffer size negotiation C patch might improve that, but I havn't gotten around to it yet) andiH occasionally disconnects requiring reentering the password, and possiblyD username, for no known reason, usually when left running overnight).  G If you buy a system with the OS already installed, it is supposed to ber( "pre-activated", saving you the trouble.  C If you buy XP via corporate licensing, you are not supposed to haveDE to activate at all, ever. (This seems like a huge hole in their Great,C Software Pirate Detection Scheme. If you are a pirate, you can justfE nab a corporate licensed version and reprdouce them all you want, andtB your pirated version has an advantage over the commercial version:2 "New! Improved! No product activation necessary!")  C As far as using it goes, my limited exposure indicates that it doesrB boot faster and shut down faster, even compared to W2K. (Actually,E shutting down faster is a good thing - turning the computer off whilesB it is in the "saving data to disk" stage is one of the most commonF methods of corrupting data on an NT system other than crashes. The oneE time my OS was rendered unbootable on my home system was probably duenG to this - it's a pity that the two dialog boxes are not more different,nJ like say bright red for the "saving data" dialog box.) The GUI is prettierK and there are a veriety of changes to the explorer which novices and casual F users may find beneficial (but which I would probably tend to shut offH by switching back to the "old style" setting). There is some more accessH to registry settings for a bunch of things via means other than going inI with the registry editor and hunting down the setting you need to change.oG (The changes needed to get Samba to work were all done via the securityrC policy thingy.) The installation process is smoother than NT, maybe-E moreso than W2K but I can't tell (both have better hardware detectiondE and less fiddling with loading drivers from outside sources than NT -e@ they've got a lot of 3rd party drivers on the installation CD).   H So far, that is about all I've noticed that is different from NT or W2K.G (Although my exposure to W2K is limited - I use it at home, but at workwE there aren't any so I've used only the one instance - and my exposurelJ to XP is a lot less but on more different systems (3, which isn't a lot).)  D For the most part, I don't see anything wrong with it (in comparisonC to other MS OSes) other than the somewhat minor nuisance of producteD activation. All in all, if your other choice is W95/98/Me then XP isC probably a good thing. If your other choice is NT, XP may be a goodtB thing. If your other choice is W2K, XP is probably pointless (but,C easier to get starting real soon now) unless you want some specificrA thing that XP has (like faster booting and shutdown) or unless XPrD turns out to really be significantly more stable (although W2K isn'tE actually very bad in this department, at least for desktop use - minehA has only crashed on me due to video driver flakyness when playinga 3D video intensive games).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:42:34 GMTq3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>a, Subject: Re: Windows XP reality check please/ Message-ID: <3BD4E68D.63D1A754@cableinet.co.uk>n  % Carl, you have some very good points.b  = However, don't you worry about what extra baggage they've hadiB to add to the kernel to implememt this scheme and their competence+ and implementing and testing it adequately?P  G   Carl Perkins wrote:d >   D a whole load of reasons why Bob Koehler was being a bit too paranoid  about what this thread is about.    n --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of o! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:16:28 -0600 ( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com>- Subject: Re: Windows XP reality, check pleased+ Message-ID: <3BD4627C.32B0C621@ecubics.com>    John Vottero wrote:P > N > A DS10 with an OpenVMS license will cost you about $6,000 to $7,000.  If youK > already have the hardware, an OpenVMS license costs roughly $1,000.  Bothr7 > numbers are about 5 times the cost of a Wintel setup.e   Are you sure ?$ How much is a itanium system today ? How much is win2000 ?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:24:49 -0400e% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>m- Subject: Re: Windows XP reality, check pleaseo/ Message-ID: <tt8sk2fugho21a@news.supernews.com>4  5 "emanuel stiebler" <emu@ecubics.com> wrote in message.% news:3BD4627C.32B0C621@ecubics.com...o > John Vottero wrote:i > >eL > > A DS10 with an OpenVMS license will cost you about $6,000 to $7,000.  If youoG > > already have the hardware, an OpenVMS license costs roughly $1,000.s Both9 > > numbers are about 5 times the cost of a Wintel setup.n >n > Are you sure ?& > How much is a itanium system today ? > How much is win2000 ?f  L If we start talking about Itanium systems then the hardware cost for OpenVMS7 and Windows is equal.  Windows XP Home Edition is $200.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:28:54 GMT * From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>- Subject: Re: Windows XP reality, check pleaseh* Message-ID: <3BD4B9F9.A569AE9@prodigy.net>   John Vottero wrote:h > 7 > "emanuel stiebler" <emu@ecubics.com> wrote in messagee' > news:3BD4627C.32B0C621@ecubics.com...r > > John Vottero wrote:d > > >uN > > > A DS10 with an OpenVMS license will cost you about $6,000 to $7,000.  If > you I > > > already have the hardware, an OpenVMS license costs roughly $1,000.  > Both; > > > numbers are about 5 times the cost of a Wintel setup.  > >A > > Are you sure ?( > > How much is a itanium system today ? > > How much is win2000 ?k > N > If we start talking about Itanium systems then the hardware cost for OpenVMS9 > and Windows is equal.  Windows XP Home Edition is $200.   . Does Window XP Home Edition run on an Itanium?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:31:17 -0400i( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: Windows XP reality, check pleaset, Message-ID: <3BD4BA55.9040107@tsoft-inc.com>   John Vottero wrote:s  7 > "emanuel stiebler" <emu@ecubics.com> wrote in messagen' > news:3BD4627C.32B0C621@ecubics.com...  >  >>John Vottero wrote:C >>K >>>A DS10 with an OpenVMS license will cost you about $6,000 to $7,000.  If( >>>y > youo > F >>>already have the hardware, an OpenVMS license costs roughly $1,000. >>>$ > Both > 8 >>>numbers are about 5 times the cost of a Wintel setup. >>>d >>Are you sure ?& >>How much is a itanium system today ? >>How much is win2000 ?  >> > N > If we start talking about Itanium systems then the hardware cost for OpenVMS9 > and Windows is equal.  Windows XP Home Edition is $200.p >  >  >  >   B A VMS home edition (hobbyist) license is free.  The media is $30,  including shipping.s   Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:22:27 GMT,2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: WRITEBOOT and dual-boot bootblocks?1 Message-ID: <7e%A7.786$RL6.8716@news.cpqcorp.net>J  E   The OpenVMS WRITEBOOT utility writes a boot block, a data structuresC   which permits the hardware system to locate and load the OpenVMS sE   operating system bootstrap.  Specifically, it permits a VAX consoleaD   to locate VMB.EXE, an Alpha system to locate APB.EXE, and an IA-64$   system to locate the (expurgated).  C   The utility and the current VAX and Alpha boot block formats are -E   compatible, and can coexist on the same disk -- though there is no  E   support for an OpenVMS system disk that provides both VAX and AlphatE   architecture bootstraps.  The format of the IA-64 boot block is not E   compatible with the existing VAX and Alpha boot block contents, andt,   cannot coexist within the same boot block.  C   Does anybody actually use this dual-format boot block capability?p  F   It would simplify my development work if I can assume that the boot ?   block on any particular system disk is architecture-specific.   @   I *will* be providing the ability to write a boot block acrossB   architectures -- a VAX will be able to write an Alpha boot blockD   on a disk, and you can freely clobber your Alpha system disk boot /   block with an IA-64 format boot block, etc.     F   This question is specific to the real usefulness of having both VAX ;   and Alpha boot block contents within the same boot block.f    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:42:20 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: WRITEBOOT and dual-boot bootblocks?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2210012042210001@user-2ive6ab.dialup.mindspring.com>  1 In article <7e%A7.786$RL6.8716@news.cpqcorp.net>,i$ hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:    E >   The utility and the current VAX and Alpha boot block formats are iG >   compatible, and can coexist on the same disk -- though there is no lG >   support for an OpenVMS system disk that provides both VAX and Alpha  >   architecture bootstraps. I   ..snip..  H >   This question is specific to the real usefulness of having both VAX = >   and Alpha boot block contents within the same boot block.   G As you said, there is no support for dual-architecture boot disks, so IuG have trouble seeing how anyone could find dual-architecture boot blocks I useful.  I always assumed this was a hook meant to support a feature thatn never got implemented.  J Are you asking for a brave soul who has actually built a dual-architectureJ boot disk by hand?  That seems like a nasty job; at least one architectureE would have to be diverted away from the SYS$COMMON directory tree.  I D guess it could be made to work, but installations and upgrades would likely be painful.  I If VMS had the concept of "fat binaries" like MacOS, one could envision a = SYS$COMMON tree filled with image files that worked on eithereG architecture.  Or, if the default file names were different for vax andnH alpha (.EXE and .OBJ for vax; .AXE  and ABJ for alpha, for example), the8 files could coexist happily in the "normal" directories.  D For the non-MacOS-aware folks in the group, MacOS "fat binaries" areD executable programs that contain both 68k and PowerPC code, with theI correct code selected at run time.  PowerPC Macs have always been able to:G run 68k executables in emulation mode (actually dynamic recompilation).:  J Come to think of it, VMS "fat binaries" would be very useful, even if theyG only supported Alpha and IPF.  It might also be useful to support imageeF sections optimized for different generations within the same processorJ family, in the same image file.  Is this a practical thing to implement in a future version of VMS?   -- y Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:08:29 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)s8 Subject: Re: X server and SET DISPLAY on different port?0 Message-ID: <00A03E9C.40AC6E10@SendSpamHere.ORG>  H I've managed to "patch" the DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP.EXE on Alpha such that H the server will respond on a different port and a SET DISPLAY will cause= apps to communication on this new port.  Works great locally.o  G I'm trying to launch a DECW terminal on my machine from another VMS boxnH behind a firewall.  I'm using a port (80) that is open through the fire-G wall (80) and the VMS box on my side does not have a web server.  I caniG see the BG device created on my side when a run an X app remotely but I $ never see any traffic on the device.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            gJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesw   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:34:37 -0500-2 From: "Dong, Jerry" <Jerry.Dong@CreditUnion.mb.ca>/ Subject: RE: X.25 profile documentation wanted. @ Message-ID: <41BA1DE44D6FD21199DA0000E8665C04020E88CF@EXCHANGE1>  L Is this an X.25 client (the OpenVMS and Tru64 systems) / server (the DECnis)K configuration or are the Alphaservers cabled into the DECnis's WAN card viab X.25 adapters?  I Other than configuring a custom profile, you may want use the profile foreD your local PSDN (since I'm in Canada, I use Datapac).  Unless you'reI connecting to a public network, you can probably configure your DTE's anyf9 way you want as long as the corresponding DTE/DCEs match.i  7 Note: Latest version of the DECnis software is v4.1-9B.v   Jerryi   -----Original Message-----% From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]_ Sent: October 20, 2001 2:53 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm+ Subject: X.25 profile documentation wanted.n    H A the moment I am working on some X.25 connections, using Decnis routers8 (latest software version, 4.1.1), VMS 7.2 and Tru64 5.1.E We are using a private X.25 network, and I'm trying to find the right H profile for this network. It used to be that Compaq had a nice book withD the names and settings for all X.25 profiles that they supplied, but that was around 1987 or so. H These days I can't find any information about the profiles I can choose,G not the names and not the contents of the profiles. Furthermore I wouldoH like to know what is in the profiles, except for the obvious things likeH window sizes and other configurable items. Are there any settings in the2 profiles that can not be changed by NCL commands ?   Regards,   Dirk   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.589 ************************