1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 04 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 491       Contents: Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris , Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey drop) Re: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update 	 CPQ -> HP ! HP and MPE and hope for VMS . . . ! HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)  HP to buy Compaq!!!  HP to Buy Compaq?  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq 3 Re: KZCCA-CB problems (UltraSCSI adapter for VAXes) 3 Re: KZCCA-CB problems (UltraSCSI adapter for VAXes)  Re: KZCCA-CB problems. Re: My VMS Wish List (features)  Re: My VMS Wish List (features) / New HP To Layoff 20,000 CPQ Per The-Advisor.com  Re: OpenVMS Products Prices  Re: OVMS License) Re: Small DECterm Font & DECwindows Fonts * Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayed* Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayed* Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayed* Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayed Re: Tunneling DECnet over IP  Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issues Re: VMS NT/win2000 similarities   WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 20:29:32 GMT  From: Dan.Pop@cern.ch (Dan Pop)  Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 * Message-ID: <9n0p7c$5n8$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  ` In <fUNk7.8961$151.685880@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> writes:  L >Second, you are missing a major point. If you have a 64-bit microprocessor, >then K >you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64 K >bits in length.                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   G This is not true for the Alpha and IA-64 Unix compilers, which use the  E I32LP64 model (with the possible exception of the Alpha-based Crays).    Dan  -- Dan Pop  CERN, IT Division  Email: Dan.Pop@cern.ch  ? Mail:  CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 20:56:06 GMT   From: "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 G Message-ID: <G7Sk7.10360$KV3.805918@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   , "Dan Pop" <Dan.Pop@cern.ch> wrote in message$ news:9n0p7c$5n8$1@sunnews.cern.ch...G > In <fUNk7.8961$151.685880@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> "eddie"  <NullVoid@att.net> writes: > > > >Second, you are missing a major point. If you have a 64-bit microprocessor,  > >then J > >you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64 > >bits in length. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  > H > This is not true for the Alpha and IA-64 Unix compilers, which use theG > I32LP64 model (with the possible exception of the Alpha-based Crays).   # Then they are not 64-bit compilers.   D They may generate code that executes on 64-bit machines and are ableD to use 64-bit primitives, but, the term 64-bit compiler implies that: the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit.   >  > Dan  > --	 > Dan Pop  > CERN, IT Division  > Email: Dan.Pop@cern.chA > Mail:  CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:09:04 +0000 (UTC)7 From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net (Douglas Siebert)  Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 + Message-ID: <9n0rhg$ge2$1@sword.avalon.net>   ) "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:   L >I wish I knew more about it so that I could have more of an opinion:  whileM >the Athlon core seems to demand some reasonable amount of respect, I haven't I >seen any projected performance figures for Hammer itself (do you know of  >any?).     H If you want hard information, I don't think any is out there that is not< under a very tight NDA.  If you want rumors and speculation:  X http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2001/august/010831_Model_3500/010831_Model_3500.htm  H FWIW, the speculation about an early release of the Hammer would put itsG release right at the time when AMD said it would until about six months F ago when they moved it back on their roadmaps from Q1 2002 to Q3 2002,I to "be in line with their ramp up of .13u SOI"  .13u bulk remains Q1 2002 I on their roadmap, for shrunk Athlons and Durons, which will then be moved  to SOI later in the year.    --H Douglas Siebert                          dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net  M I have discovered a remarkable proof which this .sig is too small to contain!    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:24:46 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 ) Message-ID: <01090317244607@antinode.org>     From: "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net>4 > "Dan Pop" <Dan.Pop@cern.ch> wrote in message [...]K > > > [...] With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64 bits in length.  > > > [...] J > > This is not true for the Alpha and IA-64 Unix compilers, which use theI > > I32LP64 model (with the possible exception of the Alpha-based Crays).  > % > Then they are not 64-bit compilers.  > F > They may generate code that executes on 64-bit machines and are ableF > to use 64-bit primitives, but, the term 64-bit compiler implies that< > the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit.  @    Oh, now I see.  A compiler for a 64-bit CPU is only a "64-bitD compiler" if "sizeof( int)" is 64.  Perhaps "NullVoid" is the resultD of a cranial inventory, as well as an e-mail user name.  A supremelyB appropriate choice, if I may say so.  Thanks for clearing that up.  @    One might ask, in a language which includes the types "char",G "short", "int", "long", and "long long", what "the native, default size G for data" actually means, but I'll refrain from asking, as I doubt that * I'd learn anything useful from the answer.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:43:30 GMT / From: andrew@gurney.reilly.home (Andrew Reilly)  Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 7 Message-ID: <slrn9p8ce3.2lsq.andrew@gurney.reilly.home>   . On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:06:35 GMT, eddie wrote:I > First, C does not require array indices to be int, please reference the 
 > attachedM > test program that I just wrote, compiled, and executed. It uses an unsigned  > longA > for the index and would allow access to 4,294,967,296 elements.   = The wonderful thing about airing one's ignorance in public is < that you are frequently given the opportunity to learn about  your misconceptions.  Thank you.  M > Second, you are missing a major point. If you have a 64-bit microprocessor,  > thenL > you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64 > bits in length.   ; And for Alpha and IA-64, you would find one of those where? ; Does Sun UltraSparc or SGI MIPS system compilers use 64-bit  ints?  Do any?  H > Third, just because you can not think of a need for large arrays means
 > nothing.  = This is very likely true, but I was hoping that someone would ? give me an example of such a use, rather than just pointing out  my obvious failing.   7 I take it that this was compiled on a "64-bit" machine?    > #define ARRAY_SIZE 100$ > void main(int argc, char *argv[] ) > { " > unsigned long array[ARRAY_SIZE]; > unsigned long i; >  > for(i=0; i<ARRAY_SIZE; i++)  >  { >  array[i] = 0; >  } > } // end main()   = Did you check the assembly code to make sure that the address 6 arithmetic was in fact being done to 64-bit precision?  @ It is certainly true that a very large quantity of existing code< has been written that uses int for array indices.  I haven't< looked, but I would expect this still to be the case in much< "64-bit clean" code that runs successfully on today's 64-bit> platforms.  I don't think that that makes it less 64-bit code,= either.  It just implies that the program documentation might ; have to indicate certain internal data-size limits.  And it @ might be a source for bugs.  For most applications, I think that< a wholesale 64-bit-index-ising of programs would be a wanton pessimisation.   --   Andrew   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 03:50:44 GMT , From: adi@pirx.hexapodia.org (Andy Isaacson) Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 3 Message-ID: <ocYk7.17789$x84.4548089@ruti.visi.com>   7 In article <slrn9p8ce3.2lsq.andrew@gurney.reilly.home>, 1 Andrew Reilly <areilly@nsw.bigpond.net.au> wrote: 
 >eddie wrote: M >> you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64  >> bits in length. > < >And for Alpha and IA-64, you would find one of those where?< >Does Sun UltraSparc or SGI MIPS system compilers use 64-bit >ints?  Do any?    Well, to be flip --   D If you buy an (Alpha-based) T3E you'll find that it uses 64-bit int.  . This matches (almost all) other Cray products.  1 Frankly, I don't understand Eddie's point, but...    -andy    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:04:36 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> $ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris. Message-ID: <3B94057C.BC574FB@wasd.vsm.com.au>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:
 8< snip 8<G > Provided you only have one CPU on which to run, a AST-driven approach F > (as I presume WASD uses) should be much more efficient on VMS than aJ > DECthreads approach.  It might even be better than a DECthreads approachG > using 2 CPUs.  At some count, however, having multiple CPUs and using D > DECthreads should surpass the AST-driven approach on a single CPU.  H Yes it does, and no argument with these statements.  The O/S overhead of@ managing the threads should diminish as more concurrency becomesD available.  The results were generated on a two CPU system (the onlyB multi-CPU we have) to try and be fair to OSU.  I would like to seeE results from a four or eight CPU system but so far no-one has donated F one to the WASD development pool.  The other big advantage with thread? technology is the single "thread" of source code obvious to the H developer.  AST programming ranges from simple to hair-tearing trying to> follow a path of execution through a substantial body of code.   --  # Non sinere illegitamus carborundum.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:04:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey drop , Message-ID: <3B940C6C.ED982191@videotron.ca>   Neil Rieck wrote: ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/02090110.htm   J Now, I found the following most interesting: (the above contains a companyE confidential document to help sales droids when fighting against IBM:   E * IBM feels the Power architecture will give them more opportunity to $ differentiate their UNIX solutions.    J * This move simplifies IBM's platform architectures and marketing. AIX and OS/400 will be on Power,,    and Linux plus Windows will be on Intel.     N When you put those statements up against the statements Compaq made to justifyI the Alpha murder, it makes for good comedy.  Funny how Compaq spins IBM's T decision with logic that is opposite to the logica used to justify the Alpha murder.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:26:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update, Message-ID: <3B941195.916C9ED5@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote: H > Terry seems to have caught the Compaq disease. If customers don't likeH > what you say then just ignore them or insult them. My opinion of Terry" > has nose-dived as well recently.  K While Mr Shannon may not have a high opinion of me (nobody does), I reserve M judgement. He has a business to run and he has to be good buddies with Compaq L (or appear to be) in order to get juicy bits of information. If his businessB was threathened by his criticism, then his criticisms had to stop.  L Having said this, I would not be surprised if "Mike McGee" wasn't just a nomL de plume for Charlie Matco, this allowing all the juicy material to continueJ to flow without compromising Mr Shannon's official position inside Compaq.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:24:39 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: CPQ -> HP< Message-ID: <howard-B4236A.23243803092001@enews.newsguy.com>  ' HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA....!!!!   ! So what happens to Tru64 and VMS?  --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 00:53:30 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) * Subject: HP and MPE and hope for VMS . . .3 Message-ID: <1s8+RkL+n0UK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   A 	Over a year ago, several folks were generating a swirl of emails F 	penning a missive.  I saved every one of them.  One angle I attempted> 	to interject (and it wasn't part of the missive, rejected forF 	reasons noted below) was HP's handling of MPE and how that is a very A 	good thing.  As far as I can tell, this thread died on the reply  	to my main post in the thread.  	 = 	Point is, HP is apparently quite content to nurture the much 5 	smaller than VMS (but very loyal) base of MPE users.   = 	Reading and looking at context, we left it out as we weren't < 	positive of HP's reasons for nurturing MPE users.  The main 	counterpoint was:  D "I perhaps hastily jumped to the conclusion that you were advocatingL presenting this argument to Compaq, which was the context in which I repliedJ (and continue to assert) that it would be irresponsible to present such anL argument without *knowing* that it in fact had been the case (not to mentionK making us look like fools if in fact the situation was, say, that HP simply K miscalculated the continuing importance of MPE to its users and changed its ' mind once they made this point clear)."    	Later:   H "And it still makes me a bit nervous to be comparing VMS in any way withI something like MPE rather than with something like OS/390 or at least the  high-end Unixes."   H 	And that was good enough to leave it out of the missive (MPE's embrace  	by HP).  1 	The thrust of my argument, prior to that was/is:      > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rob Young  > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 > Subject: Re: MPE and POSIX  N The whys and wherefors are where the corporate decisions are at. But you raise# two very interesting possibilities:   * 1) [MPE] Retained Because users complained  5 2) Retained Because MPE hordes leaving to competition   J I suspect but can't confirm some of each. In similar situations I've heardN rumors to the effect very large customers have called up IBM/HP/Digital in theK past and demanded certain features and functionality and sure enough things O happen. Perhaps Dugey can chime in with specifics. Also, complaints could be to O the effect: "Drop MPE and we will never buy another HP product, bet on that." I E have personally seen several threats along those lines trotted out to M comp.os.vms occasionally. I don't see where 1) and 2) are mutually exclusive.    	Later I wrote:     L Point is HP treats their loyal MPE customers quite well (find a reference onF the HP website where MPE is dead-ended or legacy) in fact it is ratherN interesting that MPE related links at HP include businessservers.hp.com . Look at their success stories:a  2 <http://businessservers.hp.com/success/index.html>  G Look at an example of their e-commerce initiatives for their legacy MPEM platform, rebranded the e3000:  > <http://businessservers.hp.com/solutions/internet/mohawk.html>  N "The housing application typically includes as many as 2,000 listings. The SAMF contains about 600,000 student records dating back to the mid-70s. TheN information is stored in TurboImage and Allbase databases housed in an HP-3000G host. For the future, Ms. Gris and Mr. Mason hope to make the college'so< continuing education catalogue available via the Internet. "  C Maybe some of this is hokey or a stretch but you get the impressionn@ that MPE and the e3000 isn't dead, far from it. As it moves into the 21st century:l  I <http://businessservers.hp.com/products/bussvrs/e3000misc/CSY000B1N.html>a  L I believe the whole point of our missive is some of initiative that is foundH even in the lowly e3000 is lacking on the VMS front. And yeah, drawing aO parallel or dredging up MPE stuff may not make total sense but from a corporatepN committment standpoint we can find great support in HP's attitude towards MPE.O One other point, HP seems committed to pushing MPE to a Web back-end... similareN thinking must be swirling all around other heritage OS engineering departments (OS/390 for sure).   ---t 				Robh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 22:45:38 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d* Subject: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail), Message-ID: <3B94403C.6EFE9FD1@videotron.ca>   Sorry for the unfriendly URL:n-http://www.globeandmail.ca?frameid=1&providerid=112&uid=10237805/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/D,C/20010903/whpcompaq?hub=homeBN&tf=tgam/realtime/fullstory.html&cf=tgam/realtime/config-neutral&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&slug=whpcompaq&date=20010903&archive=RTGAM&site=Front&ad_page_name=breakingnewsw ##G Hewlett-Packard Co. is expected to announce that it has acquired Compaq-J Computer Corp. for $26-billion (U.S.), the New York Times reported Sunday  night on its Web site.  M  The newspaper said that the deal would form a firm that  would almost rival gN International Business Machines Corp. of Armonk,  N.Y. in revenue. It's a moveJ made Hewlett-Packard of  Palo Alto, Calif. and Compaq of Houston, Tex. seeC their profits fall as the technology  slowdown hits. More  to come.l ##  J Is this for real ? It would make sense when you think about it. (and wouldK explain Compaq's rapid switch in Alpha policy by killing it knowing that itl5 would shortly be owned by HP who "owns" IA66 in part.e  K Now, the wording seems to indicate that this is a done deal ? I checked the H date and it isn't April 1. Can anyone provide details on what the actualE status ? Should it be "has agreed to buy" instead of "has acquired" ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 03:01:55 GMT-. From: "Bonnie Fisher" <B.J.FISHER@prodigy.net>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)C Message-ID: <DuXk7.17119$Hw1.2241808634@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>.   Same info from NY Times:  8 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html  B Implies that it is virtually done and _will_ be announced Tuesday.    8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B94403C.6EFE9FD1@videotron.ca... > Sorry for the unfriendly URL:n >.L http://www.globeandmail.ca?frameid=1&providerid=112&uid=10237805/servlet/RTGL AMArticleHTMLTemplate/D,C/20010903/whpcompaq?hub=homeBN&tf=tgam/realtime/fulL lstory.html&cf=tgam/realtime/config-neutral&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&slug=wI hpcompaq&date=20010903&archive=RTGAM&site=Front&ad_page_name=breakingnewse > ##I > Hewlett-Packard Co. is expected to announce that it has acquired CompaqeK > Computer Corp. for $26-billion (U.S.), the New York Times reported Sundayo > night on its Web site. >mH >  The newspaper said that the deal would form a firm that  would almost rivaleK > International Business Machines Corp. of Armonk,  N.Y. in revenue. It's a0 moveL > made Hewlett-Packard of  Palo Alto, Calif. and Compaq of Houston, Tex. seeE > their profits fall as the technology  slowdown hits. More  to come.  > ## >@L > Is this for real ? It would make sense when you think about it. (and wouldJ > explain Compaq's rapid switch in Alpha policy by killing it knowing that it7 > would shortly be owned by HP who "owns" IA66 in part.i >eI > Now, the wording seems to indicate that this is a done deal ? I checkeda the J > date and it isn't April 1. Can anyone provide details on what the actualG > status ? Should it be "has agreed to buy" instead of "has acquired" ?/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 03:17:29 GMTb* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)+ Message-ID: <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>   > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive?   Bonnie Fisher wrote: >  > Same info from NY Times: > : > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html > D > Implies that it is virtually done and _will_ be announced Tuesday. > : > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B94403C.6EFE9FD1@videotron.ca...! > > Sorry for the unfriendly URL:  > >-N > http://www.globeandmail.ca?frameid=1&providerid=112&uid=10237805/servlet/RTGN > AMArticleHTMLTemplate/D,C/20010903/whpcompaq?hub=homeBN&tf=tgam/realtime/fulN > lstory.html&cf=tgam/realtime/config-neutral&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&slug=wK > hpcompaq&date=20010903&archive=RTGAM&site=Front&ad_page_name=breakingnews6 > > ##K > > Hewlett-Packard Co. is expected to announce that it has acquired CompaqoM > > Computer Corp. for $26-billion (U.S.), the New York Times reported Sundayl > > night on its Web site. > >eJ > >  The newspaper said that the deal would form a firm that  would almost > rivalcM > > International Business Machines Corp. of Armonk,  N.Y. in revenue. It's am > moveN > > made Hewlett-Packard of  Palo Alto, Calif. and Compaq of Houston, Tex. seeG > > their profits fall as the technology  slowdown hits. More  to come.f > > ## > >.N > > Is this for real ? It would make sense when you think about it. (and wouldL > > explain Compaq's rapid switch in Alpha policy by killing it knowing that > it9 > > would shortly be owned by HP who "owns" IA66 in part.t > >pK > > Now, the wording seems to indicate that this is a done deal ? I checkedt > the L > > date and it isn't April 1. Can anyone provide details on what the actualI > > status ? Should it be "has agreed to buy" instead of "has acquired" ?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:33:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail), Message-ID: <3B944B67.9B9D84A0@videotron.ca>  L I was just wondering during a long bicycle ride today (against strong winds)L how low Compaq's stock would have to go before something happened (take over8 or  Capelles kicked out). I guess I have the answer now.    G Will Winkler get the shaft ? perhaps he can go work for Palmer at AMD ?r  ( HP-UX vs Tru64 will be most interesting.  K Will Carly see VMS as diffentiator worth pushing, or will it continue to be  ignored/tolerated ?a  ( I am quite happy to see Compaq disapear.  N However, this time, I continue to consider VMS to be dying, until HP proves it5 will really push VMS. Pointless to raise false hopes.n  H This will prove a more interesting merger on a worlwide basis since bothL Digital and HP have worldwide presence. When Compaq acquired Digital, CompaqL didn't really have to close significant offices/facilities worldwide becauseC it didn't have much outside the USA. But now, both have significanttL sales/operations in many countries, so a lot of combining and elimination of duplication becomes possible.r  M I feel better about having an HP Microvax II compared to a Compaq Microvax IIs  J On the other hand, it is clear that it was Carly who told Capellas to killI Alpha. (Just like Pfeiffer had told Palmer to get rid of may of Digital's & limbs, including the Alpha FAB plant).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 03:41:58 GMT"& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)9 Message-ID: <a4Yk7.5830$mC2.2717676@typhoon2.gnilink.net>o  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B944B67.9B9D84A0@videotron.ca...G > I was just wondering during a long bicycle ride today (against strongn winds)I > how low Compaq's stock would have to go before something happened (taken over: > or  Capelles kicked out). I guess I have the answer now.  K Don't bet on it - Carly Fiorina has also been under heavy fire - we may see"% both of them gone within 18 months...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 03:45:35 GMTi1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial>o. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)0 Message-ID: <3B944D0C.53A997E7@yahoo.commercial>   JF Mezei wrote:t > L > Is this for real ? It would make sense when you think about it. (and wouldM > explain Compaq's rapid switch in Alpha policy by killing it knowing that it07 > would shortly be owned by HP who "owns" IA66 in part.n >   C Wow! That would add a sense of irony to my Digital UNIX "Y W8 4 HP"0 keychain... :)   -- n Ed Wensell III" http://www.geocities.com/ewensell35 E-mail address slightly bunged. You've been warned...    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 22:52:16 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <6l$g15makwrE@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  X In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:@ > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive? >   B 	The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Having) 	too many of those is counter-productive.-   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 03:51:10 GMTa3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)S. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail), Message-ID: <9n1j3e$2kv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  , In article <3B94403C.6EFE9FD1@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e >Sorry for the unfriendly URL:  I   It's also the top story on the New York Times website: www.nytimes.com.e  K >Is this for real ? It would make sense when you think about it. (and would L >explain Compaq's rapid switch in Alpha policy by killing it knowing that it6 >would shortly be owned by HP who "owns" IA66 in part.    C   Basically, it is the only outcome for a company that has lost thenK will to compete, makes it very hard to purchase their products, can't honornK its own commitments and have lost their core competency.  So much for theirt 180-day reorganization.  s  E   I also can't really think of another product where customers wishedTC another company sold the product rather than the company that does.   N   I think Capellas was doing a "Palmer" when Compaq announced the end of AlphaM in favor of HP/Intel technology so that it can be more easily acquired by HP.fE I'll bet they didn't say that in their NDAs.  Some things I'd expect:-  G 1) The announcement of the phase out of Tru64 UNIX and no port to IA-64f: 2) An acceleration of the timeline for the demise of AlphaN 3) A really "fun" Encompass convention!  Is there enough time to explain this?    L >Now, the wording seems to indicate that this is a done deal ? I checked theI >date and it isn't April 1. Can anyone provide details on what the actual F >status ? Should it be "has agreed to buy" instead of "has acquired" ?  A   It's on the cover of Tuesday's NY Times, not exactly April 1st.i  NG   Nice how these things assume that the shareholders will just be sheepnM and vote for any merger.  But like me, I'm assuming shareholders will be gladb! to get rid of their Compaq stock.e  M   One can only hope that when HP decides what Compaq employees to "rightsize"tM when they take over they can get rid of the incompentents, not that it reallyt matters.   -- Vance Haemmerleo vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 03:59:47 GMT0* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)+ Message-ID: <3B9451F3.A6EE0112@prodigy.net>d   Rob Young wrote: > Z > In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:B > > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive? > >o > K >         The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Having(2 >         too many of those is counter-productive. > % >                                 Robh   ... or maybe just Windows.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 23:16:50 -0500e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <flkPhONOge+S@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  b In article <9n1j3e$2kv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:. > In article <3B94403C.6EFE9FD1@videotron.ca>,1 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:2 >>Sorry for the unfriendly URL:u > K >   It's also the top story on the New York Times website: www.nytimes.com.2 > L >>Is this for real ? It would make sense when you think about it. (and wouldM >>explain Compaq's rapid switch in Alpha policy by killing it knowing that it!7 >>would shortly be owned by HP who "owns" IA66 in part.- >  > E >   Basically, it is the only outcome for a company that has lost the M > will to compete, makes it very hard to purchase their products, can't honornM > its own commitments and have lost their core competency.  So much for theirn > 180-day reorganization.  g > G >   I also can't really think of another product where customers wished E > another company sold the product rather than the company that does.  > P >   I think Capellas was doing a "Palmer" when Compaq announced the end of AlphaO > in favor of HP/Intel technology so that it can be more easily acquired by HP.HG > I'll bet they didn't say that in their NDAs.  Some things I'd expect:t >    	Well , no kidding!e  I > 1) The announcement of the phase out of Tru64 UNIX and no port to IA-64t  C 	NO!  A nice roadmap showing where HP/UX comes together with Tru64.a  < > 2) An acceleration of the timeline for the demise of Alpha  B 	No.  Customer assurances.  You'd see hopping mad CIOs and whatnot1 	raging for months on end if they drop that ball!t  P > 3) A really "fun" Encompass convention!  Is there enough time to explain this?  ? 	Now, that is a good point!  Enough time to explain it?  Sure!!i  A 	Do you think they got together the first time this past weekend?tC 	Rumors of this merger have been flying around for quite some time.y: 	Compaq "obviously" took steps recently to make it happen.   				Robn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 04:23:54 GMTn& From: Jerry Hudgins <jerry@e-farm.com>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)* Message-ID: <3B94575C.27A10A8E@e-farm.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Is this for real ?    Appears to be.  The NYT link is:  8 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 04:53:33 GMTe) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)a. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)' Message-ID: <9n1mod$qd2$2@joe.rice.edu>   . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: :t : Is this for real ? p :    Yes...  6   http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htmG   HP Press Release: Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Agree to Merge, Creatingt&   $87 Billion Global Technology Leader   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:16:01 GMT. From: "Bill" <billmuy@home.com>h. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)? Message-ID: <lsZk7.34575$MK5.21543455@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>a  3 "Jerry Hudgins" <jerry@e-farm.com> wrote in messagei$ news:3B94575C.27A10A8E@e-farm.com... > JF Mezei wrote:e > >  > > Is this for real ? > " > Appears to be.  The NYT link is: >q: > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html   Or from the horse's mouth:  4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:20:29 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>m. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)( Message-ID: <9n1o98$m8b$1@pyrite.mv.net>  7 "cjt & trefoil" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in messaget% news:3B9451F3.A6EE0112@prodigy.net...i > Rob Young wrote: > >i= > > In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil0 <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:D > > > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive? > > >  > >dE > >         The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.k Having4 > >         too many of those is counter-productive. > >I' > >                                 Rob  >a > ... or maybe just Windows.  G Don't confuse HP's management with Compaq's (or DEC's before it):  theyhB likely have some understanding of the inadequacy of Windows in the enterprise.0  K HP's own Unix is kind of ho-hum, and they may find Tru64 a bit strange, andtI Linux is gaining ground like gang-busters (but still has a ways to go yet,K before it's enterprise-ready).  The *safest* thing to do right now for themoJ in the Unix space might be just to wait at least a moment and see how fastE Linux matures and how badly the decision to kill Alpha hits the Tru64tK customer base (if Tru64 sales tank, as may well have already occurred, thentE dropping it and grabbing what technology can be transferred will be a E no-brainer to the point that they shouldn't even generate much of anyl customer resentment).e  I Probably ditto with their decisions about VMS - at least if they have any-B better understanding of its potential as an asset than Compaq did.  F Unlike Compaq, HP has a history of dealing with being a large, diverseI corporation.  It *may* be able to juggle its new assets better than theiriK previous owner.  OTOH, times are tight, and the inclination to cut anythinglH that doesn't seem certain to provide good, immediate returns may be hardI even for a competent company to resist - especially with assets it reallyC doesn't understand much yet.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:40:11 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail), Message-ID: <3B946933.59EB9D89@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:R > > 3) A really "fun" Encompass convention!  Is there enough time to explain this?  L Perhaps the HP users groups can start to provide VMS "support" worldwide.  IN think that the folks running the VMS hobbysit programme shoudl contact that HP# users group to get things rolling. n  L Since the breakup of DECUS around the world with some chapters on their own,N each having their onw name, I think that HP might be able to provide a unifiedJ structure that makes sense and can serve folks in many more countries that: just the token list of ex-DECUS chapters that still exist.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:14:13 +0930: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>. Subject: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)N Message-ID: <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F808545257C929@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>  H I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be" renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)     > -----Original Message-----: > From: leslie@clio.rice.edu [mailto:leslie@clio.rice.edu]' > Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2001 14:24  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) >  > 0 > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: > :w > : Is this for real ? a > :l >  > Yes... > 8 >   http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htm: >   HP Press Release: Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Agree to  > Merge, Creatingn( >   $87 Billion Global Technology Leader >  > --Jerry Leslie >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 21:22:35 -0700w- From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman)b Subject: HP to buy Compaq!!!= Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0109032022.2b567334@posting.google.com>   ' WOAH!!! Just in case you haven't heard:A  G http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/09/03/hewlett.packard.compaq.ap/index.htmlo  C Carly Fiorina, the chairman and chief executive of Hewlett-Packard,e/ will become the new company's chairman and CEO.@  = Please keep all communications with the new CEO (and other HPtA personnel) polite, civil, etc. Let's be sure to make a good firstl impression! Be careful.   C And now, for better or worse, it's time for a whole nuther round ofe Future-of-VMS threads!   HP-VMS anyone?   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmana afeldman@gfigroup.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 21:39:20 -0700h3 From: antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au (Antony Wardle)- Subject: HP to Buy Compaq?< Message-ID: <fe52053.0109032039.45e1525b@posting.google.com>   From the New York Times websiteH8 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html  5 Hewlett-Packard to Acquire Compaq in $25 Billion Deale& By ANDREW ROSS SORKIN and FLOYD NORRIS  D Hewlett-Packard will announce on Tuesday that it is acquiring Compaq? Computer for $25 billion in stock in a bold move to grow as therE computer business struggles with shrinking sales, executives close top# the negotiations said Monday night.   D The merger, if completed, would produce a company with total revenueF only slightly less than those of I.B.M., the largest computer company.E But both Hewlett-Packard and Compaq have recently seen revenues slidehD and profits plunge because of a computer industry slowdown, and both have announced job cuts.  ? For Carleton S. Fiorina, who became chief executive of Hewlett-gE Packard in 1999 when she was hired away from Lucent Technologies, thenA acquisition amounts to a renewed bet on the computer business andiA particularly a new operating system for computer servers that wasbA developed by Intel and Hewlett-Packard. Compaq is the other largerF company that has announced it plans to use that technology, which willB compete with technologies developed by Sun Microsystems and I.B.M.@ Late last year, Hewlett-Packard had tried to move in a different> direction that emphasized services by acquiring the consultingD operations of PricewaterhouseCoopers, the large accounting firm. But7 that plan fell apart as Hewlett's stock price declined.i> Compaq, which is based in Houston, began in 1982 as a maker ofB personal computers. It became a phenomenal success in its first 15> years but has stumbled more recently amid severe price wars in personal computers.d  : Its 1998 acquisition of Digital Equipment, itself once theF second-largest computer maker, has not been viewed as a great success.  A Investors in both Compaq and Hewlett-Packard have suffered in the:A current decline in technology stocks, although Compaq's woes havecB taken a greater toll. That stock is down 76 percent from its peak,D reached in early 1999, while Hewlett- Packard is off 66 percent from its peak, reached last summer.  E While the executives involved in the talks said that an agreement hadrA been reached that provided for Hewlett-Packard to acquire Compaq,lE exact terms of the offer were not disclosed. They said, however, that E a premium is being offered for Compaq's stock, which closed Friday atnE $12.35, down 34 cents, while Hewlett- Packard shares fell 19 cents to  $23.21.i  D The executives said that Ms. Fiorina would become chairman and chiefB executive of the combined company, which will be based in Hewlett-D Packard's home town of Palo Alto, Calif., while Michael D. Capellas,= Compaq's chairman and chief executive, will become president.w< Spokesmen for both companies declined to comment last night.  C When announced job reductions, of 8,500 jobs at Compaq and 9,000 atdC Hewlett-Packard, are completed, employment at the companies will bee= about 62,800 at Compaq and 87,000 at Hewlett-Packard. FurthernB reductions seem likely, as executives said that they expect annual2 cost savings of $2.5 billion within several years.  F In its most recent 12 months, Hewlett-Packard reported revenues of $47C billion, while Compaq had revenues of $40 billion. The combined $87oE billion is close to the $90 billion reported by I.B.M., and far above-C the $33 billion for Dell Computer, which now ranks fourth and wouldi) move to third if the merger is completed.oF In its most recent financial report, for the nine months through July,> Hewlett-Packard said its revenues were down 5 percent from theF comparable period a year earlier, to $33.7 billion. But its net incomeD fell 82 percent to $506 million. Compaq, reporting on the six months@ through June, said revenues fell 13 percent to $14.2 billion. ItC suffered a net loss of $201 million for the period, compared with a.2 profit of $684 million in the same period of 2000.  C Compaq had hoped that Digital Equipment technology would provide it F with a competitive edge in new generations of computer servers. But itA recently chose to not use that technology and instead go with the 2 technology developed by Hewlett-Packard and Intel.  ? Both Hewlett-Packard and Compaq have been hurt by price wars in = personal computers, where it has been difficult for makers to D differentiate themselves when all except Apple Computer are offering! operating systems from Microsoft.b  = Many in the industry hope that the trend toward decentralized A computing, in which great computing power migrated to desktops indE homes and offices, will reverse itself as a new Internet-based systemlA uses racks and racks of powerful computers known as servers whose B computing power will be called on by computers and cellular phonesA around the world. If that vision is realized, then a major battlegF looms over which maker of servers is able to gain a dominant position.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 22:56:18 +0200 , From: Toon Moene <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl> Subject: Re: I hate Compaq3 Message-ID: <3B93EE72.5E3561E@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>i   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  = > If 30% of nasty problems can be made to go away by reducing-; > optimization, you indeed have compiler problems.  I doubth< > this is consistent across all compiler vendors.  (The fact: > that I have not encountered this level on any particular9 > compiler doesn't prove much, since the software I writej > is different from yours.)w  H Hmmm, that's not my experience as the maintainer of g77.  Between 80 andE 90 % of all errors reported by users as "optimisation errors" (in thedD sense that they "go away when using less or no optimisation") are in fact user programming errors.i  = It's just that non-optimised code is often very forgiving ..."   -- nG Toon Moene - mailto:toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl - phoneto: +31 346 214290s6 Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG  Maartensdijk, The NetherlandsG Maintainer, GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.htmleE Join GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)o   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 16:17:35 -0500e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: I hate Compaq3 Message-ID: <3TrXw7YHG7FQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  b In article <3B93EE72.5E3561E@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>, Toon Moene <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >> If 30% of nasty problems can be made to go away by reducing< >> optimization, you indeed have compiler problems.  I doubt= >> this is consistent across all compiler vendors.  (The fact ; >> that I have not encountered this level on any particular : >> compiler doesn't prove much, since the software I write >> is different from yours.) > J > Hmmm, that's not my experience as the maintainer of g77.  Between 80 andG > 90 % of all errors reported by users as "optimisation errors" (in thehF > sense that they "go away when using less or no optimisation") are in > fact user programming errors.h > ? > It's just that non-optimised code is often very forgiving ...m  = Understood.  I was assuming thorough investigation had provens: it was not a problem in the code being compiled, since the> description was of an environment where things were thoroughly checked.   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Sep 2001 18:02:07 -0400P From: "Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>" <monnier+comp.arch/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> Subject: Re: I hate Compaq, Message-ID: <5ln14ckk68.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>  : >>>>> "Nick" == Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes:@ > projects showed that was false in the 1970s.  However, ANOTHER? > myth developed in the 1980s that such things could be writteneB > ENTIRELY in a high-level language, and it is that myth that I am > referring to.   K That "myth" is quite alive, thank you.  The US' DoD seems interested in it. J Check out "proof carrying code", "typed assembly language" and a few other
 such friends.   ? > But, firstly, there is always that 1% and, secondly, there ise= > always the problem of code-generation errors unless the ISAR > itself provides the checking.y  7 That's the idea: type-check the output of the compiler.e     	Stefano   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:23:26 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>B Subject: Re: I hate Compaq, Message-ID: <3B9402DD.EE2D3BA8@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:B > I just don't infer "SMT-EPIC will never work" from the base that? > "Microsoft has trouble making things work".  Others have less = > trouble.  Perhaps because they waste less time implementingq > virus-enabling technology.  M This raises an interesting potential problem for Microsoft. If, for instance,iK Linux is better able to take advantages of the IA64 fancy features while NTsB isn't ready yet, this may eventually start to show up as a serious@ disadvantage for NT against rivals running on the same platform.  M So my guess is that Microsoft will want to find a way to make it work just soo3 that NT doesn't end up last in the IA64 benchmarks.s   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 18:41:50 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>< Subject: Re: KZCCA-CB problems (UltraSCSI adapter for VAXes)' Message-ID: <GJ3nxq.3F4@spcuna.spc.edu>b  ' Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes:tP > And one more question, what's the relationship between Nemonix & Intraserver? O > The device is described by the installation manual as an Intraserver product,6I > but the board itself and the CD-ROM have Nemonix written all over them.   N   At the time I saw the board (the DECUS Symposium in Providence) it was brandN new and both Intraserver and Nemonix were showing it, with Nemonix saying "youH can buy this from Digital" and Digital saying "nope, never heard of it".  L   My impression is that Intraserver does contract design/manufacturing for aK bunch of folks as well as marketing their own line of cards. This card usedaK to be available for purchase from Intraserver, but that stopped a long timeiM ago. The Intraserver home page now says "Copyright 2001 LSI Logic" so I guess  Intraserver got bought.-  K   Regarding problems with the card/software, I've never run one but I don't.I know of any issues with the bus they're attaching to (the KFDDB bus), and.M Intraserver has been making lots of PCI cards with essentially the same partsoJ (the Compaq KZPCM-DA for Alphas is pretty much the same thing) so I assumeK there isn't a problem with the hardware, either. That leaves it as a driverrH issue, which I think is likely as this is the only VAX card/driver that K Intraserver made, and the driver internals are rather different between VAX.
 and Alpha.      Sorry I can't be of more help.  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:32:22 +0930l% From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au>-< Subject: Re: KZCCA-CB problems (UltraSCSI adapter for VAXes)* Message-ID: <3B941A0E.52C3AB0F@vsm.com.au>   Hello Terry,  N >   My impression is that Intraserver does contract design/manufacturing for aM > bunch of folks as well as marketing their own line of cards. This card used7M > to be available for purchase from Intraserver, but that stopped a long timepO > ago. The Intraserver home page now says "Copyright 2001 LSI Logic" so I guessy > Intraserver got bought.   M Their web site says they were acquired by LSI in mid-2000.  It looks from the-@ Nemonix web site that they too have had a management reshufffle.  M >   Regarding problems with the card/software, I've never run one but I don'tMK > know of any issues with the bus they're attaching to (the KFDDB bus), andrO > Intraserver has been making lots of PCI cards with essentially the same parts L > (the Compaq KZPCM-DA for Alphas is pretty much the same thing) so I assumeM > there isn't a problem with the hardware, either. That leaves it as a drivereI > issue, which I think is likely as this is the only VAX card/driver thatnM > Intraserver made, and the driver internals are rather different between VAXr > and Alpha.  M I haven't heard the term "KFDDB bus" before.  The documentation with the card  describes it as the "CDAL bus".i  M I suspect the driver, too.  I've saw similar behaviour with the graphics cardnK in my AlphaStation: attempts by DECwindows to store certain screen patternsaL would crash the system, and it required a power-off to reset the card beforeM the system would boot again.  (To be more precise it would boot, but crash ass soon as DECwindows started.)  N We can live with the current behaviour of the SCSI card (i.e. power-off beforeM booting) since we don't boot often and the 3rd-party DSSI-based controlled totK which our existing drives are connected is getting less reliable every day.p           Jeremy Begga  =   +---------------------------------------------------------+n=   |             VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.             |n=   |                  http://www.vsm.com.au/                 |l=   |        "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"       |s=   |---------------------------------------------------------|f=   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au | =   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    |r=   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      | =   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    |y=   +---------------------------------------------------------+i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 00:18:20 GMT-) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)0 Subject: Re: KZCCA-CB problems.i0 Message-ID: <3b941c6a.15330554@news.wcc.govt.nz>   John,m  A Others have pointed out the issues of the Ethernet card not being 
 supported.  E We had one of these cards connected to a VAX 4000-705A, serving diskso to the rest of a mixed cluster.uD We experienced frequent crashes which Compaq traced back to problems% with the PKWDriver being MSCP Served.rC Problems mainly under load, especially if the Alphas were hammering 
 the disks.  E We finally had to ditch the set up and retreated to HSD Served disks.h  F I do not believe the problems will surface in a non-cluster situation.6 They may not surface in a single architecture cluster.   Rob. Te      0 On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 00:25:52 -0700, "Welsh, John" <John.Welsh@Avnet.com> wrote:-    	 >Hi Gang,  >	C >	I am trying to install a KZCCA-CB  adapter into VAX4000-705A and .; >	am having difficulty trying to get the 100MB NIC working.a >M5 >	The card is a Compaq product and is manufactured by2 >	Intraserver. >a? >	I have installed the Intraserver software ( VAXSCSI_016 ) kitm; >	and the PKWdriver seems to be running for the FWDiff port 6 >	but am unable to get DECNET or TCPIP to see the EWA0! >	device.The VMS version is V7.1.e >   >	Any help would be appreciated. >o >John Welsh. >==========  >john.welsh@avnet.comC >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:57:34 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ( Subject: Re: My VMS Wish List (features)0 Message-ID: <00A01811.3A72787F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <3B93BAFD.DBF3151C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:r >Guy Peleg wrote:- >> -	 >> David,- >> -L >> I'm the DCL maintainer, some of the features you requested should be very
 >> easy toL >> implement. Out of curiosity, why do you need the $CREATE/MAILBOX comand ? >> eD >> We will discuss your sugesstions internally and will update soon. >2C >As Larry and Brian noted, there is no way to create a permanent or,0 >otherwise persistent mailbox in DCL at present. >eC >There are, as Brian noted, some games that can be played to make a C >temporary mailbox persist until no longer needed. DEFMBXBUFQUO andvG >DEFMBXMXMSG are dynamic parameters, but changing them on the fly would E >be messy and would require privileges - I really wouldn't want a DCLu0 >proc. twiddling sys. param.'s like that anyway. > H >There are some processes that are just too complex to be expressed in a8 >single PIPE command as some might want to attempt, IMO. >lE >Thanx for your note. It's nice to know that requests do get noticed,-$ >even if they cannot all be granted. >gH >Wanna drive Andy buggy? Ask him what it would take to make BACKUP writeI >to or read from a mailbox or pipeline (as in PIPE-ing a saveset to stdinBC >of ZIP or BZIP, or vice-versa). T'would come in all kinds of handyrE >trying make a hobbyist's layered product distro fit on as few as two5 >CDs.n > H >Larry also noted a distaste for DCL "programs". One of his major fortesB >seems to be security. Gives one pause to consider if DCL could beG >"fitted" with a mechanism whereby by DCL proc.'s could be "executable"n >given "E" access, but not "R".  >I
 >For example:e >c: >Proc. DO_THIS.COM belongs to [100,110] and has protectionC >(RWE,RWED,RE,E) (or similar security using ACL entries) and can berG >executed by a process whose UIC is [300,477] with no more priv.'s than G >TMPMBX and NETMBX. That is, [300,477] being non-privileged and outsideeF >the owner's group can execute the proc, but SET VERIFY is ineffectiveF >(or generates a $SEVERITY 0 (warning) error) and cannot TYPE or PRINT) >the proc. or otherwise examine the text.e >e+ >This would parallel UN*X's "x" permission.  >e >Just a thought... >hI >....and related thought: could DCL possibly support an option to reflectn& >the "line" on which an error occured? >. >Example (access RE):eB >(Procedure attempts to OPEN a file protected against the process)E >%CLI-E-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationsB >-CLI-I-ATLINE, at line 237 in ddcu:<dir>DO_THIS.COM;17 at depth 2 >t >Example (access E):A >(Procedure attempts to SET VERIFY without R access to the proc.)fE >%CLI-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violatione1 >-CLI-I-ATLINE, at line 1 in procedure at depth 4e >r >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/n >i) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:e  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    + The MPA0: device can be easily creaed with P   $ OPEN/READ/WRITE xyzzy MPA0:r  D but it has certain characteristics that a mailbox does not that make its use somewhat limited.   B I don't think that the underlying mechanism need be a mailbox (MB)A or a pipe (MP) device.  I think that what would appease those re-hC questing this would be some *supported* mechanism for DCL interpro-  cess communication.v       --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMT            eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 16:13:50 -0500i- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n( Subject: Re: My VMS Wish List (features)3 Message-ID: <Bd0UiE5uFh6U@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  p In article <00A01811.3A72787F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  D > I don't think that the underlying mechanism need be a mailbox (MB)C > or a pipe (MP) device.  I think that what would appease those re- E > questing this would be some *supported* mechanism for DCL interpro-d > cess communication.s  ) Such as, to be modern, an ICC capability.c   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:38:45 GMTi) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)e8 Subject: New HP To Layoff 20,000 CPQ Per The-Advisor.com' Message-ID: <9n1pd5$si0$2@joe.rice.edu>o Keywords: hp,compaq,layoffs    From:b  .    http://www.the-adviser.com/Articles/HP2.htm  B   "BREAKING NEWS-   The hotel sites were booked only two nights in2    advance and the trail led right to Wall Street.  H    Tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. EDT at the Equitable Building in New York City,D    HP and Compaq will formerly present merger plans for the combined
    companies.t  H    HP and Compaq confirmed that their boards have agreed on a definitiveI    merger. The name of the Company will HP, the merger team led mostly byuF    HP management and upon conclusion, the combined companies will haveF    No. 1 worldwide revenue positions in servers, access devices (PCs &'    hand-helds), and imaging & printing.e  @    Initial feedback from Compaq's executives is that this is "anI    acquisition by HP." Preliminary job cuts will are expected to drive at ?    least $2.5 billion in savings (we estimated $4 to $5 billioneD    realistically based on a preview of tommorow's presentation).  AtF    least 20,000 employees, primarily from Compaq, are expected to lose    their jobs quickly."C   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:39:12 -0500, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Products Prices2 Message-ID: <9n1baa$gb7$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3B93BCEC.9B7BE17E@fsi.net>...r >Fabio Cardoso wrote:e >>( >> In the Inquirer there is a news about- >> OpenVMS products prices... 15 to 30 up ???s >>* >> http://www.theinquirer.net/03090104.htm	 >>  .....r >t >No, you got it right. >rA >Compaq just doesn't get the whole "affordable" thing, I guess...- > .....- >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/e    F Back in May I posted a query about increased prices from the q for VMSF products; my boss told me that the distributors we buy from had jumpedL prices on basically all VMS related products, and said they were following aJ 'q' price increase.  At the time informed sources stated that that had notD happened, and in fact I was mildly chewed on for 'starting a rumor'.  I Given that the article said the price increase happened "not long before" J Capella's Big Day in June, I wonder if those distributors were in the knowG about something coming and pulling a gas station act (raising prices tom! their customers in anticipation).t   Rich Jordanw   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 13:01:43 -0500o- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: Re: OVMS License-3 Message-ID: <UGpoYDdFkU7g@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  f In article <3b93b00b.12754484@news.cable.ntlworld.com>, peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) writes: >  >  >  > Hi,g >  > H > Periodically Open VMS software comes up for sale on Ebay. Sometimes itG > says that no License is included. Do you require a license to install:H > and use this software or will it run just fine without a license. This > is for hobbyist use only.3  , The software will not run without a license.  ? If your purpose is hobbyist, you should get a hobbyist license,e since it is free.i  > Unless, of course, you have an ulterior motive of boosting the world economy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:14:03 GMTd+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>e2 Subject: Re: Small DECterm Font & DECwindows Fonts< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0109031110130.1440-100000@jaipur>  ' On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Terry Murphy wrote:rM > My next question is, where do fonts come from? My DECwindows display is set.L > to a Linux machine, but even when I enter fonts that are available on thatJ > machine (the 12 point DEC terminal, for example, is available and usableM > from the Linux machine) I get an error if they're not available. Typically,cN > in the Unix world, the font comes from the server side, not the client side,J > but here they seem to be coming from the the client side. Is this indeed+ > true by default, and how can I change it?h  J Yes, the fonts live with the X Server just like in Unix.  On the VMS side,G they are stored in SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSFONT...].  Unix and VMS use the samepG font file formats, so if you want to transfer fonts back and forth, you5I may do so.  I didn't have the DEC terminal fonts on my Linux X server, soaE I copied then from the VMS machine to a directory on my Linux box ande$ added the directory to my font path.   -Ryans   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:19:34 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>"3 Subject: Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayedn, Message-ID: <3B941001.E91A3EF2@videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:" >  > FYI.) > http://www.theinquirer.net/03090104.htmr  I Delated to November ofthis year. In itself, I would say: So What ? Aren'tn# delays in chips de-facto standard ?e  I However, in light of the alpha murder announcement, I wonder if the delayoJ might not be artificial to allow some of the older Alpha inventories to goF down/sell ? *IF* sales of Alpha dropped significantly after the murderL announcement, then Compaq might not want to obsolete the expensive inventoryE it might have of Alphas. So delaying the newer chip would make sense.r  L Consider that Alpha has dropped out of the competition, so it doesn't matterN it if lags in performance etc etc. It is there only to help existing customers% increae capacity to existing systems.r   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 20:55:32 -0500b+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c3 Subject: Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayedu3 Message-ID: <J7DqK29My34N@eisner.encompasserve.org>N  \ In article <3B941001.E91A3EF2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:s >> h >> FYI.s* >> http://www.theinquirer.net/03090104.htm > K > Delated to November ofthis year. In itself, I would say: So What ? Aren't % > delays in chips de-facto standard ?R >    	But the opposite may be true:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/2506alpha.htm  O Tru64 is DII COE listed, making it a 20-year availability kind of thing. If VMSaI is still to be COE listed, the Pentagon might get a little cross. The NSAiK (National Security Agency) may also not be too happy. Will it still roll intK ES45 servers, as it has been doing for a while? We think that Vax VMS usersa: would like to know the impact of this on their plans, too.  C 	If early 1GHz ES45s are going to "prior commitments" , (i.e. very y> 	large nameless customers), that would constrain their public ? 	availability.  After all, a poor showing is inconsistent with:n  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/03090104.htmf  I "in the meantime Compaq made its figures and sold many many of the Alpha i0 systems in the quarter up to the end of August."   				Robt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:03:36 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 3 Subject: Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayed ( Message-ID: <9n1n9i$lhn$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:J7DqK29My34N@eisner.encompasserve.org...e   ...l  1 > After all, a poor showing is inconsistent with:s >e) > http://www.theinquirer.net/03090104.htm  >'J > "in the meantime Compaq made its figures and sold many many of the Alpha2 > systems in the quarter up to the end of August."  E You're still not reading for content, Rob:  the *complete* quote was:r  J "we just hope that La Intella is taking very good care of those engineers,J and that in the meantime Compaq made its figures and sold many many of the6 Alpha systems in the quarter up to the end of August."  I So while Mike *hopes* (unless he's exercising his well-known penchant for-J sarcasm) that Compaq's Q3 targets will be met, he gives no indication thatK he knows anything about it (nor may the rest of us, possibly even after thenG quarterly reports are filed if they follow Compaq's usual coyness aboute# revealing the details of bad news).d   - bill   >e > Robo >    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 00:12:49 -0500p+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)C3 Subject: Re: The Inquirer : 1GHz ES45 Alpha delayedo3 Message-ID: <f1fp8ElEVV11@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  R In article <9n1n9i$lhn$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:J7DqK29My34N@eisner.encompasserve.org...n >  > ...t > 2 >> After all, a poor showing is inconsistent with: >>* >> http://www.theinquirer.net/03090104.htm >>K >> "in the meantime Compaq made its figures and sold many many of the Alphat3 >> systems in the quarter up to the end of August."i > G > You're still not reading for content, Rob:  the *complete* quote was:i > L > "we just hope that La Intella is taking very good care of those engineers,L > and that in the meantime Compaq made its figures and sold many many of the8 > Alpha systems in the quarter up to the end of August." > K > So while Mike *hopes* (unless he's exercising his well-known penchant forwL > sarcasm) that Compaq's Q3 targets will be met, he gives no indication thatM > he knows anything about it (nor may the rest of us, possibly even after theiI > quarterly reports are filed if they follow Compaq's usual coyness about % > revealing the details of bad news).h >   ; 	Ouch.  That was brutal on my part.  You are right.  It wasb= 	me overlooking the word "that".  If you leave "that", out ite 	reads like this:n  O "It's all good stuff, and we just hope that La Intella is taking very good careeH of those engineers, and in the meantime Compaq made its figures and soldG many many of the Alpha systems in the quarter up to the end of August."S  E 	Seeing August in there doesn't help at all either.  I've got turned /D 	around more than once on his sentence constructs.  But yes, I blew  	that one badly!   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 14:44:41 -0700 < From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>% Subject: Re: Tunneling DECnet over IP3) Message-ID: <3B93F9C9.476ABD19@intel.com>-   "Michael L. Umbricht" wrote:   > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > v > > In article <twDj7.297$_I.534633@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes: > > :-B > > :...The solution so far is to stick UNIX boxes running VTUN[1]Q > > :between the remote DECnet segments to tunnel the DECnet over the Internet...4 > > :cP > > :I've been looking at the DECnet over IP information in the TCPIP and DECnetQ > > :manuals, and as far as I can tell, all it really does is allow you to use IPvP > > :addresses and such with your DECnet aware apps to connect to remove systems > > :over TCPIP. > > K > >   Correct.  This mechanism does not particularly attempt to encapsulate ( > >   DECnet, it uses IP as a transport. > F > I think that what we're looking for in HECnet is a virtual DECnet IVD > line/circuit over IP.  It should be transparent to the user at theC > command line, ie. sending mail to host:: or seeing what nodes are  > currently connected.   [...]0  @ In case people have been talking past each other, and to clarify" some of what's been said before...  = Process Software's IP products, Multinet and TCPware, supporti@ what they call PhaseIP, which is DECnet IV tunneled over IP.  It@ requires PhaseIP on both ends of the link (for those connections> going over TCP/IP) and it does NOT interoperate with DECnet V.  A DECnet-Plus (the current phase V release) supports NSP (phase IV)u6 and OSI (phase V) protocols.  In addition, it supports? DECnet-over-IP plus use of IP DNS servers.  Near as I can tell,o> this TCPIP support is part of the OSI stuff, although it's not? entirely clear.  With DECnet-Plus, you need to have NSP enabledtC to talk to phase IV nodes.  (However, you can configure DECnet-Plusj@ to use TCPIP only without any OSI routers on the network.)  Also= note that if you want to use DECnet-over-IP under DECnet-Plus ; through a firewall, you need the corresponding port enabledlB (which port number I can't recall at the moment).  I don't believe> that's necessary with PhaseIP, but I could easily be mistaken.  @ The upshot is that, for wide-area DECnet, you need either a pair> of DECnet-Plus nodes on the either end, or a pair of "PhaseIP"@ nodes on either end, but you can NOT have DECnet-Plus on one end2 and PhaseIP on the other; they won't interoperate.      -Ken  --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:46:02 -0400D- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issues , Message-ID: <3B940828.A68B485E@videotron.ca>   John Santos wrote:E > Normally, no you don't have to recompile.  However, there was a bugmB > in some old compilers (actually in the GEM optimizer) that couldD > generate incorrect code sequences.  These sequences worked fine on, > EV5 and before, but could break on an EV6.  E That is most interesting. I always thought "alpha is alpha is alpha".g  L But then, when you consider all the fancy stuff Alpha does with out of orderF execution, branch prediction etc, I guess it becomes easy to see how aT compiler could generate code that doesn't run properly on a later version of a chip.    # This brings the following question:   L Will IA64 ever make use of all the fancy features found on Alpha, and if so,N will this cause shrinkwrapped software to be "wrong" if it executes on a later version of IA64 ?b   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:52:26 GMTI= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n( Subject: Re: VMS NT/win2000 similarities0 Message-ID: <00A01810.826BF89B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  % The biggest similarity of them all...   B Both OpenVMS and Windows NT are bing replaced by Windows 2000.  :( --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMF            iJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:55:57 GMTo& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>) Subject: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqe9 Message-ID: <1pXk7.5770$mC2.2688974@typhoon2.gnilink.net>N  ! Hewlett-Packard Agrees to Acquire) Compaq Computer in Stock Swapp4 By NIKHIL DEOGUN, GARY MCWILLIAMS and MOLLY WILLIAMS* Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL    6 The cutthroat computer price war may soon get tougher.  K In a deal that would jolt the sputtering computer industry, Hewlett-PackardiK Co. has agreed to acquire Compaq Computer Corp. in a stock-swap transactionaH that values Compaq at about $26 billion, people familiar with the matterF say. Both boards have approved the transaction, and an announcement isF expected Tuesday. The deal would result in a combination of two of the: biggest names in computers, printers and computer servers.  J At its most basic, the deal would bring Compaq, the world's No. 2 maker ofL personal computers, under the umbrella of H-P, a distant No. 3, allowing theH combined entity to be bigger than and better able to compete with leaderK Dell Computer Corp. But the deal would also have implications beyond the PC E industry, which is witnessing one of its worst downturns in years. ItTI threatens to bring the PC price war to the world of computer services and  storage networks.m  L Under terms of the deal, Hewlett-Packard would swap about 0.63 of its sharesE for each share of Compaq. At 4 p.m. Friday in New York Stock Exchange0J composite trading, shares of Hewlett-Packard were down 19 cents at $23.21,H while Compaq's stock was off 34 cents at $12.35. Both stocks hit 52-weekJ lows on Friday, and Compaq shareholders would get only a modest premium of roughly 19% for their stock.  J H-P Chief Executive Carleton "Carly" Fiorina, 46 years old, would continueH to be CEO of the combined company, according to people familiar with theH matter. Michael D. Capellas, Compaq's 46-year-old chief executive, wouldG serve as president. Five representatives of Compaq are expected to join- Hewlett-Packard's board.  F A spokeswoman for Hewlett-Packard declined to comment. A spokesman for' Compaq couldn't be reached for comment.P  G Increasingly, the personal computer companies -- squeezed in their corecC low-margin business -- are trying to move onto the turf occupied by2K International Business Machines Corp. and Sun Microsystems Inc. by focusing I on higher-margin computer services work, such as helping companies set up.D and maintain their computer networks. The combination would create aJ computer services giant. Both companies have been trying unsuccessfully toL reach critical mass in their services operations for the last several years.  K Amid relentless price-cutting in their computer operations, each has turnedtK to acquisitions with varying degrees of success. For instance, H-P recentlyvK agreed to acquire Comdisco Corp.'s disaster-recovery operations but saw its K talks to buy the consulting-services business of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLC"H fall apart last year. Compaq, which entered the services business with aI splash when it acquired Digital Equipment Corp. in 1998, has made severalrH small services buys since then but was outbid in its pursuit of Proxicom Inc.   Searching for a Strategy  I Beyond their similar product lines, both H-P and Compaq have struggled to-H find a workable strategy after losing share in the computer markets thatG early on made each company successful. But with their stocks near lows, C neither has the wherewithal to match IBM or the specialist servicesmL companies such as Electronic Data Systems Corp. In many ways, executives may8 have felt they had no alternative but to combine forces.  I The two companies expect $2.5 billion in annual cost savings within a few.H years. Both Compaq and H-P are facing enormous profit pressures but haveH been reluctant to get out of the PC game entirely since that would be anH admission of defeat. On paper, the deal would create the world's largestK supplier of PCs and server computers. The combined company would hold a 19%rL share of the global PC business, leapfrogging current leader Dell, which hasH about a 13% world-wide share. The deal is expected to immediately add to9 H-P's earnings in large part because of the cost savings.d  F What's more, the new company would hold 37% of the market for powerfulI server computers that run corporate computer rooms, a market which CompaqeH currently leads. That share would be more than double the current No. 2,D Dell. Both H-P and Compaq have struggled to halt the inroads of DellI Computer in PC servers and of IBM in sales of large-computers running the1K Unix operating system. In the quarter ended June 30, Compaq's share of U.S.:K server shipments fell 26% and H-P's share fell 25%, while Dell and IBM weretK the sole big-company gainers, according to Gartner Inc., a Stamford, Conn.,  market research firm.   F The combined companies' market strength would likely provoke antitrustB scrutiny. In PCs, for instance, the two control two-thirds of U.S.E retail-store sales in the wake of the departures of IBM, Packard BellsE Electronics and Acer America. Compaq also has been one of the largestt> customers of Lexmark International Inc., an H-P printer rival.  J Even if the government does not block the deal outright, its investigationJ could take many months to complete and require divestitures of overlappingL product lines. Justice Department officials could not be reached for comment
 Monday night.r  K Hewlett-Packard is likely to get some tough questions from Wall Street. Its K credibility is already shaky, and becoming the world's biggest maker of PCs G at a time when the personal-computer market is suffering would probablynL prompt some analysts to scratch their heads. Integrating two giant companiesC would be a distraction for management and could leave rank-and-filel@ employees wondering about surviving the inevitable cost cutting.  J And with their businesses under attack from Dell, IBM and others, this mayE not be an ideal time to be focused internally. Indeed, some observerscH suggest that after Compaq acquired Digital Equipment three years ago itsJ businesses suffered from a distracted management: market shares in PCs andJ workstations initially rose, then fell sharply. The Digital Equipment dealJ and others point to the computer industry's spotty track record of mergersC and acquisitions and may create a show-me sentiment on Wall Street.   H The proposed deal comes at a time of weak demand for personal computers.K Market researchers expect the U.S. PC shipments to shrink 10% this year and-A world-wide shipments to fall for the first time in 15 years. ThatrI contraction has forced Compaq and H-P to slash employment and costs in anG) effort to match Dell's cost efficiencies.0  K Yet the deal would leave the PC as critically important to the combination.wJ Compaq gets nearly half its revenue from PCs, and H-P counts on PCs and PCE servers for 25% of its sales. And PCs aren't a money-maker for either L company. Last quarter, H-P lost an estimated $150 million on its PC businessK while Compaq lost $155 million. The companies had combined PC and PC-servero sales of $32 billion last year.p  I Unlike Dell, both remain dependent on dealers and retailers for a sizabletL chunk of their PC sales. What's more, corporate and home PC buyers have beenI shunning major new purchases for nearly a year. Businesses are stretchingcH out purchases, holding onto PCs for four years instead of the three-yearL replacement that had been the norm. At home, purchases of PCs have given wayL to digital cameras and other add-ons as buyer found that few programs demand the latest chips.v  C The move is a bold and risky bet for Ms. Fiorina, the former LucentuE Technologies Inc. executive who was brought in to succeed veteran H-PBI executive Lew Platt in July 1999. The first outsider to run the venerableeG company, Ms. Fiorina is trying to transform it into a more wide-rangingeC purveyor of computers, software and services for its core corporate 
 customers.  K Ms. Fiorina was a star saleswoman at Lucent when she was tapped to run H-P.sL The company was splitting itself in two to spin off the test and measurementK business, now called Agilent Technologies Inc., and Ms. Fiorina was seen ast: the fresh manager who was needed to help push H-P forward.  K Ms. Fiorina has consolidated businesses, trimming the number of independentiG reporting units; she has also tried to shake up the company's sometimes L slow-moving culture and make managers more accountable. Still, it has been aJ rough road, and the turmoil facing all computer makers has exacerbated herK task of turning around the company, which had $49 billion in revenue in thea  fiscal year ended Oct. 31, 2000.  J Today, the company is grappling with a slowing world-wide economy that hasD crimped spending by big customers. H-P has had to repeatedly warn ofJ disappointing results, and it is cutting 6,000 jobs to cope with decliningJ sales. Some analysts and industry watchers had speculated that Ms. FiorinaK might be in danger of being replaced, though the H-P board has continued to$L support her openly. Others said she would have a few more years to prove her strategy was the right one.e  J H-P was late to the consumer PC business in the mid-1990s. It wasn't untilH 1995, after Compaq, IBM, Apple Computer Inc. and others had targeted theK home PC market, that H-P followed suit with the Pavilion model. The companyqK leveraged its strong brand name in printers and corporate PCs and racked up:J huge growth in the home market. H-P increased market share by 50% for manyF quarters and moved from almost nothing to being one of the top home PC makers.a  K Still, when prices started plummeting in the late 1990s, led by competition"L from Dell and Compaq, H-P scrambled to keep costs down and stay competitive.C Recently, some analysts have been calling for H-P to get out of PCsoI altogether because it is a low-margin commodity business. IBM has alreadyfL pulled out of the consumer PC business. H-P said last month, though, that itK saw value in the PC business, even though it lost money in that unit in the- most recent quarter.  K Ms. Fiorina has continually looked for acquisitions in the services sector.YF Though it accounts for just 15% of Hewlett-Packard's annual sales, theI services business is one of its few bright spots: It's the only unit thatt3 showed a rise in sales in the fiscal third quarter.   G The deal shows how limited the options were for the two executives. Mr.KI Capellas, the Compaq CEO, has struggled to stem PC losses while searchingsK for a strategy that encompasses the varied operations of the company, which K had 2000 revenue of $42.4 billion. Since taking over in August 1999, he hash% restructured the company three times.   A His first year in office, he cut staff and combined the company'shG big-computer and services units to attack corporate markets for bundledeK software and services. He also launched a crusade to have Compaq consideredfH a "cool" purveyor of consumer electronics. By 2000, he shifted gears andF focused the company's units on taking advantage of the then-burgeoning? Internet, killing off several marketing efforts to sell bundledi
 applications.i  H This year, with a PC price war in full force, Mr. Capellas was forced toK reorganize again, combining Compaq's business and home-PC units, pulling inaH its development efforts and curbing its Internet operations. In June, heI announced a new corporate focus -- bundle services, hardware and software  for big corporate customers.  K At H-P, Ms. Fiorina has struggled with delays in getting some products out,tF which has let rivals gain ground. The company has missed forecasts forG several quarters in a row and has said it doesn't yet see an end to thes1 slack demand for computers and consumer products.n  I To compensate for the falling demand, H-P has been slashing costs, askingeK all its workers to volunteer for a temporary 10% pay cut and instituting an I Internet-based procurement system to take $100 million out of next year's4K expenses. H-P is also trimming the number of contract manufacturers that itc uses to four from 20.   K -- Robin Sidel in New York and John Wilke in Washington contributed to thisr article.  @ Write to Nikhil Deogun at nik.deogun@wsj.com, Gary McWilliams atD gary.mcwilliams@wsj.com and Molly Williams at molly.williams@wsj.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:47:47 -0400g) From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@ari.net>g- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq4= Message-ID: <gurman-520E88.23474703092001@news.crosslink.net>i  #     Just saw this story on CNN.com.s  G     VERY odd, after seeing at least one (if not several) business-page  A columns adivisng HP to get out of the PC and server business and eB concentrate on their core business --- printers. But I guess that - wouldn't be big enough for Ms. Fiorina's ego.   E     My first reaction on seeing the news was that the worst large PC nF company, Dell, and the next to worst large unix company, Sun, will be I the only ones left standing if there are a couple of bad years to follow.oH I can only shudder to think what people who couldn't figure out what to ! do with HP will think of OpenVMS.h  H     In the interests of full disclosure, a couple of weeks ago, I ended I 14 years of VMS workstation use when I replaced a 660au with a Power Mac h> G4/867. (We still have a couple of other OVMS workstations in C mission-critical functions and an OVMS server.) I can't think of a oA reason for looking back, especially if this marriage takes place.e  J > Hewlett-Packard is likely to get some tough questions from Wall Street. N > Its credibility is already shaky, and becoming the world's biggest maker of L > PC at a time when the personal-computer market is suffering would probablyE > prompt some analysts to scratch their heads. Integrating two giant I > companieswE > would be a distraction for management and could leave rank-and-file B > employees wondering about surviving the inevitable cost cutting.  G     Right. I can't see why this makes sense for anyone: both companies pF have huge PC inventories no one wants, server sales are off, and look 2 what happened when Compaq tried to digest Digital.  E     I guess when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping.... for d competitors.       Bewildered,d                     Joe Gurman   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 23:06:16 -0500n+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqo3 Message-ID: <wPnHyUluL3x5@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  i In article <gurman-520E88.23474703092001@news.crosslink.net>, "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@ari.net> writes: % >     Just saw this story on CNN.com.e > I >     VERY odd, after seeing at least one (if not several) business-page lC > columns adivisng HP to get out of the PC and server business and sD > concentrate on their core business --- printers. But I guess that / > wouldn't be big enough for Ms. Fiorina's ego.k > G >     My first reaction on seeing the news was that the worst large PC rH > company, Dell, and the next to worst large unix company, Sun, will be K > the only ones left standing if there are a couple of bad years to follow. J > I can only shudder to think what people who couldn't figure out what to # > do with HP will think of OpenVMS.  > ? 	This is so funny.  I'm sitting here chuckling.  Their combined < 	revenues are $87 billion dollars.  It will take a decade of= 	screw-ups and tremendous Sun growth to reach parity.  Relax.r  K >> Hewlett-Packard is likely to get some tough questions from Wall Street. -O >> Its credibility is already shaky, and becoming the world's biggest maker of nM >> PC at a time when the personal-computer market is suffering would probablyDF >> prompt some analysts to scratch their heads. Integrating two giant  >> companiesF >> would be a distraction for management and could leave rank-and-fileC >> employees wondering about surviving the inevitable cost cutting.( > I >     Right. I can't see why this makes sense for anyone: both companies  H > have huge PC inventories no one wants, server sales are off, and look 4 > what happened when Compaq tried to digest Digital. >   B 	Compaq got great stuff with Digital.  It was necessary.  Probably@ 	as necessary as this merger.  Offline much of these issues haveB 	been discussed by rank amateurs.  Essentially, a merger like thisB 	was forced.  PCs are killing folks.  Dell is responsible for thisE 	merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/CompaqUC 	may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be a n
 	big plus.  G >     I guess when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping.... for e > competitors. >   ? 	The engineering talent in a combined HP/Compaq is an excellent ' 	thing.  This should be a great merger.h   				Roba   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 04:13:25 GMTe* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqe+ Message-ID: <3B945524.A6CB0658@prodigy.net>m   Jeff Killeen wrote:l > # > Hewlett-Packard Agrees to Acquiref > Compaq Computer in Stock Swapm6 > By NIKHIL DEOGUN, GARY MCWILLIAMS and MOLLY WILLIAMS, > Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL >  <snip>K > The two companies expect $2.5 billion in annual cost savings within a fewe	 > years. t  / Is that a euphemism for laying off, say, 25000?i   <snip>  H > The combined companies' market strength would likely provoke antitrustD > scrutiny. In PCs, for instance, the two control two-thirds of U.S.G > retail-store sales in the wake of the departures of IBM, Packard BelldG > Electronics and Acer America. Compaq also has been one of the largesta@ > customers of Lexmark International Inc., an H-P printer rival. > L > Even if the government does not block the deal outright, its investigationL > could take many months to complete and require divestitures of overlappingN > product lines. Justice Department officials could not be reached for comment > Monday night.n >  <snip>  & ... and in the meantime, what happens?  I > The deal shows how limited the options were for the two executives. Mr.eK > Capellas, the Compaq CEO, has struggled to stem PC losses while searchingoM > for a strategy that encompasses the varied operations of the company, which M > had 2000 revenue of $42.4 billion. Since taking over in August 1999, he has ' > restructured the company three times.- >  <snip>  ) Another half dozen reorgs ought to do it.i   Yikes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 04:17:13 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqa3 Message-ID: <dBYk7.1$8x1.1686@typhoon2.gnilink.net>a   More details...i  1 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7046410.htmlu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 22:23:51 -0600a% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>n- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy CompaqtB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010903222336.00aaa008@ntbsod.psccos.com>  5 OK, Terry and/or Sue - what does it all mean...??????e  ) At 10:17 PM 9/3/2001, Jeff Killeen wrote:t >More details... >s2 >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7046410.html   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+eI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |iI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |rI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |kI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 23:32:47 -0500r+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaql3 Message-ID: <bFxifxyuCz12@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  j In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010903222336.00aaa008@ntbsod.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:7 > OK, Terry and/or Sue - what does it all mean...??????e >    Terry,     	Shannon Knows Digital 	Shannon Knows Compaqf 	Shannon Flat out Knows!  (*)l   			Rob    % (*)  Saves on letterhead and whatnot!v   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:37:15 -0400C- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqi, Message-ID: <3B946883.3F7616F5@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:H >         This is so funny.  I'm sitting here chuckling.  Their combinedE >         revenues are $87 billion dollars.  It will take a decade ofrF >         screw-ups and tremendous Sun growth to reach parity.  Relax.      K Microsoft gew very fast, even with its crappy software. Don't underestimatet5 Dell. Compaq did and Compaq will soon cease to exist.n  N Also, Once combined, do not expect to see the total HP revenus to include both3 those of HP-classic and Compaq-Classic. (see later)f  M Few mergers are actually profitable. And they take time before *any* tangiblegK benefit from the merger starts to really materialise in terms of the bottom I line. The combined company will be in layoffs mode for the next couple of H years, will shutdown many dupliocate facilities etc etc. It will shrink.  L When Air Canada bought Canadian airlines, it was bragging about becoming theL world's 10th largest airline and the merger giving it some 700 million bucksG in benefits very soon. But now that they are hemoraging money, they are J blaming the merger for all the additional costs of integrating everything.      B >         Compaq got great stuff with Digital.  It was necessary.   N It got offices that can provide local support, customers and the call centres.L The rest was clearly expandable judging by Compaq's track record. Whether HP= sees potential in Digital's products is the big question now.   K >         was forced.  PCs are killing folks.  Dell is responsible for thismN >         merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/CompaqK >         may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be ad >         big plus.   J It depends on whether HP can provide to Compaq stuff that Compaq didn't doK well and if Compaq can provide to HP stuff it couldn't do well. If both areIH inept at marketing, the unified company will also be inept at marketing.  H >         The engineering talent in a combined HP/Compaq is an excellent/ >         thing.  This should be a great mergers  L What is left of Compaq's enginering that is. I wonder why the compiler folks@ went to Intel instead of being absorbed by HP during the buyout.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.491 ************************