1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 04 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 492       Contents:5 180 days =  90 negotiating + 90 merging the companies * A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. RE: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. RE: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition. Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris  Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris  Another take on the acquisition " big arrays (was: Re: alpha - ia64)3 Re: C on EV6 (was Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issues)  C++ v6 "feature"* Compaq and HP  ?(Lan Console Prophecy) ;-), Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey drop, Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey drop, Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey drop) Re: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update ) Re: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update 
 Re: CPQ -> HP $ Re: DCL command file to requeue jobs$ Re: DCL command file to requeue jobs Digital and Alpha to Survive  Re: Digital and Alpha to SurviveP dir help ---%LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.NLB;1P Re: dir help ---%LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.N- European Merger Block (was Re: I hate Compaq) 1 Re: European Merger Block (was Re: I hate Compaq) 1 Re: European Merger Block (was Re: I hate Compaq)  good news from Intel) Re: Help with backup needed, in a bind... $ Re: Help with java server OpenVMS...# Heroix Robomon FILE_IO_LOAD error?? ) Re: How to install Adobe Acrobat Viewer ?  HP + Compaq  HP + Compaq = Compaq - DEC  HP + Compaq = How about Oracle ? HP and Compaq merging  Re: HP and Compaq merging  Re: HP and Compaq merging  Re: HP buying Compaq?  Re: HP buying Compaq?  Re: HP buying Compaq?  Re: HP buying Compaq?  Re: HP buying Compaq?  Re: HP buying Compaq? / HP press release on merger between Compaq an HP % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) % Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)  HP to Buy Compaq!  Re: HP to Buy Compaq!  Re: HP to buy Compaq!!!  Re: HP to buy Compaq!!!  Re: HP to buy Compaq!!!  HP-Compaq merger forum Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  IBM  <  >  Itanium IBM  buys HP RE: IBM  buys HP Re: IBM  buys HP Re: IBM  buys HPP Re: installing extensions to MOD_PERL (was Re: CSWS, MOD_PERL - anyone have HELL IT's Hannibals Re: IT's HannibalsB Jo Mcnally (just resigned as chair of Compaq UK) speaks to the BBC RE: KZCCA-CB problems. Re: KZCCA-CB problems. Re: KZCCA-CB problems. Letter from Capellas Re: More Alpha rubbish in print  Re: More Alpha rubbish in print 3 Re: New HP To Layoff 20,000 CPQ Per The-Advisor.com 3 Re: New HP To Layoff 20,000 CPQ Per The-Advisor.com  No mention of VMS in conference # Re: No mention of VMS in conference # Re: No mention of VMS in conference  Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?  Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?  Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ? 5 Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...)  Re: OVMS License3 Re: Serial Console? (was: Re: EV7 will never ship?) # Should have listened to Andrew Neff 8 Silly names (was: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail))< Re: Silly names (was: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail))) Re: Small DECterm Font & DECwindows Fonts  Re: some mozilla questions Re: some mozilla questionsA SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC  (versus virtual/logical disks), V7.3 Alpha E Re: SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC  (versus virtual/logical disks), V7.3 Alpha = Terry Knows... ??? Was: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update A Re: Terry Knows... ??? Was: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update 
 Terry Shannon  RE: Terry Shannon  Re: Terry Shannon  RE: Terry Shannon  Re: Terry Shannon  The Inquirer's initial take  Timeline Re: Timeline Re: Timeline Re: Timeline Re: Timeline Re: Timeline Re: Timeline TSM on VMS V7.3  Re: TSM on VMS V7.3  Re: TSM on VMS V7.3  Re: TSM on VMS V7.3  Re: Tunneling DECnet over IP  Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issues! Re: VMS'er Announces Java Product ( Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed2 Re: Why did compaq buy Digital in the first place?7 Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server? 7 Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server? 7 Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server? $ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:52:14 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>> Subject: 180 days =  90 negotiating + 90 merging the companies@ Message-ID: <20010904115214.10983.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Well  6 This is the real reason why Capellas said the "strong"3 change in Compaq will happen in 180 days (almost 90  days ago)...   So obvius, dont you think ?=20  
 Regards FC=20    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:53:42 -0400 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> 3 Subject: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition + Message-ID: <sb94a4b8.013@AAASMTA.aaas.org>   L We're fortunate to have some many Compaq employees who read this forum. If =K I've never done so in the past, thank you for your time and your patience =  with us.  J I'm curious to know what you think about the acquisition of your company =L by HP. As it gets later in the week, and information trickles in, I'd love =I to hear what the buzz is about how this affects Alpha (the architecture = I that was/is going to Intel), OpenVMS, Tru64, R&D, former DEC employees, = L (but not iPaq...I don't care to hear any news about what this does for the =H stupid iPaq). Additionally, I'm most interested in the human equation. =I 25,000 people are going to be laid off, and so for I haven't read where = J those bodies are coming from, and to be honest I'm worried about you guys.  I I guess what I'm asking is this: all of you H-Paq employees that are in = ) the loop, try and keep us in the loop.=20    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:40:12 -0400+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 7 Subject: RE: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition R Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4D49611@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,   K Well, the "interesting times" stuff sure applies this AM .. Next weeks CETS B will be an interesting hotbed of rumours, speculation and beer pub discussions.  J I am sure it will be some time before the ramifications really settle in.   G You are right that there will be jobs lost in specific area's from both E companies, but there will also likely be significant opportunities in  specific area's as well.   Which area's ?    L Tbd - to early to tell as this deal will need to be reviewed and approved byD all sorts of Govt and other regulatory types before it is finalized.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jeisensc@aaas.org] Sent: September 4, 2001 9:54 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 Subject: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition     J We're fortunate to have some many Compaq employees who read this forum. IfI I've never done so in the past, thank you for your time and your patience  with us.  K I'm curious to know what you think about the acquisition of your company by J HP. As it gets later in the week, and information trickles in, I'd love toI hear what the buzz is about how this affects Alpha (the architecture that K was/is going to Intel), OpenVMS, Tru64, R&D, former DEC employees, (but not H iPaq...I don't care to hear any news about what this does for the stupidF iPaq). Additionally, I'm most interested in the human equation. 25,000F people are going to be laid off, and so for I haven't read where thoseD bodies are coming from, and to be honest I'm worried about you guys.  K I guess what I'm asking is this: all of you H-Paq employees that are in the # loop, try and keep us in the loop.     ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 07:30:59 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition @ Message-ID: <20010904143059.23634.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  3 I am not an Compaq employee, but I work for Compaq. 5 Well, at least Petrobras dont care about it. I should 5 be working for IBM or EDS or Origin... they just need 4 me managing the OpenVMS systems until July, 2002 (my3 last month here). Even the OpenVMS Systems will run 1 until 2005 because of some "burocracy" of the SAP 5 systems, I dont want to stay here - I want vacations. 5 We from "Professional Services" are allways relegated 4 to the 2nd.....3rd plan....it will not change for us2 because Petrobras needs us puting their systems to1 work. If Compaq fails we will be working here for  another company.6 For example: I want the OVMS Cluster Course and I will paid by myself ! :-/=20 5 ABout the 25000, I think IBM, Sun, Dell and the other 6 companies will receive these employees which know  how# HP and Compaq works. Just this !=20   + This firing is feeding the market with good 
 profesionals.    Regards    FC=20             0 --- John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote:4 > We're fortunate to have some many Compaq employees3 > who read this forum. If I've never done so in the 6 > past, thank you for your time and your patience with > us.  >=20. > I'm curious to know what you think about the5 > acquisition of your company by HP. As it gets later 4 > in the week, and information trickles in, I'd love1 > to hear what the buzz is about how this affects 6 > Alpha (the architecture that was/is going to Intel),5 > OpenVMS, Tru64, R&D, former DEC employees, (but not 6 > iPaq...I don't care to hear any news about what this3 > does for the stupid iPaq). Additionally, I'm most 5 > interested in the human equation. 25,000 people are 1 > going to be laid off, and so for I haven't read 6 > where those bodies are coming from, and to be honest > I'm worried about you guys.  >=203 > I guess what I'm asking is this: all of you H-Paq 4 > employees that are in the loop, try and keep us in > the loop.=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:01:45 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition 3 Message-ID: <C16l7.1179$bB1.47593@news.cpqcorp.net>   K Hmmm.  I believe all the memo's say that we have to shut up while the meger I works its way through the legal mazes.  Besides, most of us know about as 8 much as anyone who picked up the newspaper this morning.  J For the time being, until the merger is complete, I believe it is business2 as usual, including executing the current roadmap.   _Fred   & John Eisenschmidt wrote in message ...J We're fortunate to have some many Compaq employees who read this forum. IfI I've never done so in the past, thank you for your time and your patience  with us.  K I'm curious to know what you think about the acquisition of your company by J HP. As it gets later in the week, and information trickles in, I'd love toI hear what the buzz is about how this affects Alpha (the architecture that K was/is going to Intel), OpenVMS, Tru64, R&D, former DEC employees, (but not H iPaq...I don't care to hear any news about what this does for the stupidF iPaq). Additionally, I'm most interested in the human equation. 25,000F people are going to be laid off, and so for I haven't read where thoseD bodies are coming from, and to be honest I'm worried about you guys.  K I guess what I'm asking is this: all of you H-Paq employees that are in the " loop, try and keep us in the loop.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:35:59 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition 8 Message-ID: <5is9ptg5huu0d6cpbsdtld2vvb4bttcmj4@4ax.com>  4 On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:01:45 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  L >Hmmm.  I believe all the memo's say that we have to shut up while the megerJ >works its way through the legal mazes.  Besides, most of us know about as9 >much as anyone who picked up the newspaper this morning.  > K >For the time being, until the merger is complete, I believe it is business 3 >as usual, including executing the current roadmap.   ? iPAQs are very good at holding real computerized roadmaps while E traveling. Perhaps Compaq could send us all a cellphone enabled  iPAQ 8 so that the Compaq roadmaps can be updated in real time.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:18:14 -05005 From: "Hipenbecker, Doug" <Hipenbecker.Doug@MBCO.COM> 7 Subject: RE: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition G Message-ID: <DD11CB6FEB21D41184510004ACA3715304C90880@mbsus228.mbc.com>   D Does this mean that the HP Journada I own is obsolete or is the iPAQ# obsolete...or do I know own a hPAQ?  :):):)   Doug Hipenbecker Miller Brewing   -----Original Message-----, From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]* Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:36 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisitionq    4 On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:01:45 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  L >Hmmm.  I believe all the memo's say that we have to shut up while the megerJ >works its way through the legal mazes.  Besides, most of us know about as9 >much as anyone who picked up the newspaper this morning.a > K >For the time being, until the merger is complete, I believe it is businessl3 >as usual, including executing the current roadmap.a  ? iPAQs are very good at holding real computerized roadmaps while E traveling. Perhaps Compaq could send us all a cellphone enabled  iPAQp8 so that the Compaq roadmaps can be updated in real time.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:24:42 +0200n< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition ( Message-ID: <3B95004A.60C7B1AC@home.com>  1 I could make better use of an six-Paq right now !e" A nice lager would be just fine... Jan-Erik Sderholm.S   "Hipenbecker, Doug" wrote: > F > Does this mean that the HP Journada I own is obsolete or is the iPAQ% > obsolete...or do I know own a hPAQ?A > :):):)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:21:38 +0100s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisitionc) Message-ID: <3B950DA2.61A5599@virgin.net>I   "Hipenbecker, Doug" wrote:  F > Does this mean that the HP Journada I own is obsolete or is the iPAQ% > obsolete...or do I know own a hPAQ?l > :):):)  H Asuuming the "i" really stands for Intel then I guess you have an iHP :)  M However I suspect iPAQ might be one of the few "Compaq sub-brands" (HP) whichm
 will survive.e   >b > Doug Hipenbecker > Miller Brewing >e > -----Original Message-----. > From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net], > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:36 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisitionn >a6 > On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:01:45 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"& > <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: > N > >Hmmm.  I believe all the memo's say that we have to shut up while the megerL > >works its way through the legal mazes.  Besides, most of us know about as; > >much as anyone who picked up the newspaper this morning.a > > M > >For the time being, until the merger is complete, I believe it is business 5 > >as usual, including executing the current roadmap.o >qA > iPAQs are very good at holding real computerized roadmaps whiletG > traveling. Perhaps Compaq could send us all a cellphone enabled  iPAQe: > so that the Compaq roadmaps can be updated in real time. >b > -- > Alan   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:32:33 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>o Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 : Message-ID: <Df0l7.8268$A24.1624683@news20.bellglobal.com>  L The issue of 32 vs. 64 bit integers (and 32 vs. 64 bit pointers) is a thornyK field indeed. Rather than pass along my 2 cents worth, here is a Compaq web(1 page with some documents relating to the subject.a  < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/vms_articles.html  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,l Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:16:00 +0100. From: "Ken Hagan" <K.Hagan@thermoteknix.co.uk> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64e@ Message-ID: <newscache$1ds4jg$ag9$1@firewall.thermoteknix.co.uk>    "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> wrote% > Then they are not 64-bit compilers.  >aF > They may generate code that executes on 64-bit machines and are ableF > to use 64-bit primitives, but, the term 64-bit compiler implies that< > the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit.  C Well, you could cross-post and ask on comp.std.c, but I don't thinks& the term has any standardised meaning.  B Most 64-bit Unices require 32-bit ints and 64-bit longs, and Win64B requires 32-bit ints and longs, so any compiler for these two OSes, would be brain dead if it used a 64-bit int.  A Most folks do call those OSes "64-bit" (as I have just done), andPB would probably call compilers that target them "64-bit compilers".  B Furthermore, there is no type between "short" and "int", so if you> want to offer 8,16,32 and 64-bit integers, you are pretty much7 forced to keep "int" at 32-bits, regardless of your OS.:  < I think Crays have 64-bit ints, but aren't they a bit wierd?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:25:12 GMTfN From: Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer) Subject: Re: alpha - ia64l0 Message-ID: <9n26lo$mpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  3 [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]q  " "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> writes:    - >"Dan Pop" <Dan.Pop@cern.ch> wrote in messageF  $ >Then they are not 64-bit compilers.  E >They may generate code that executes on 64-bit machines and are abledE >to use 64-bit primitives, but, the term 64-bit compiler implies thatd; >the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit.    By whose authority?   F Nearly everybody in the industry agrees that having a 64-bit "int" and? 64-bit "long" is a mistake and that it is more natural to have:      type 		sizeof(type)  char		1. short		2 int		4 long		8e	 void *		8S	 size_t		8 
 intptr_t	8  3 Or you're left with a whole in your type structure.'    : 64-bit means "uses a 64 bit address space and has a native; 64-bit integral type", at least in the part of the industry 9 I'm working in (not just Sun, but all 64-bit Unix vendorsi- except perhaps Cray use the same conventions)r   Casper --F Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related2 to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.? Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and mayu be fiction rather than truth.w   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:21:01 GMTtN From: Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer) Subject: Re: alpha - ia64 0 Message-ID: <9n26dt$mos$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  3 [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]   ! Dan.Pop@cern.ch (Dan Pop) writes:   a >In <fUNk7.8961$151.685880@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> writes:   M >>Second, you are missing a major point. If you have a 64-bit microprocessor,o >>thenL >>you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64L >>bits in length.                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  H >This is not true for the Alpha and IA-64 Unix compilers, which use the F >I32LP64 model (with the possible exception of the Alpha-based Crays).   And 64-bit Solaris/SPARC.n  E Of course, the choice doesn't depend on the CPU but depends on the OS2 ABI definition.o   Casper --F Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related2 to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.? Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and mayD be fiction rather than truth.3   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:37:28 GMToN From: Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer) Subject: Re: alpha - ia6430 Message-ID: <9n27co$n02$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  3 [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]_  1 andrew@gurney.reilly.home (Andrew Reilly) writes:N  A >It is certainly true that a very large quantity of existing code.= >has been written that uses int for array indices.  I haven'te= >looked, but I would expect this still to be the case in muchs= >"64-bit clean" code that runs successfully on today's 64-bite? >platforms.  I don't think that that makes it less 64-bit code,h> >either.  It just implies that the program documentation might< >have to indicate certain internal data-size limits.  And itA >might be a source for bugs.  For most applications, I think thata= >a wholesale 64-bit-index-ising of programs would be a wantone >pessimisation.n  > For many 64 bit computers, there's no difference between doing@ a 64 bit "add 1 to register" or a 32 bit one; the same register > and the same opcode would be used (as long as overflow doesn't matter)e  ? There must be use for arrays with large dimensions; Sun's firsti? 64 bit compilers didn't support arrays over 2GB but the currento	 one does.n   #include <limits.h>o   long huge[INT_MAX];r   main() {o }s  ) % cc -xarch=v9 -o largearray largearray.cd % size largearray & 2772 + 808 + 17179869192 = 17179872772  # (16GB bss; won't run on my desktop)      Casper --F Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related2 to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.? Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and mayc be fiction rather than truth.0   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Sep 2001 13:29:55 +0200  From: Per Ekman <pek@pdc.kth.se> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64M- Message-ID: <mjer8tnyz0s.fsf@toby.pdc.kth.se>t  1 andrew@gurney.reilly.home (Andrew Reilly) writes:.  0 > On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:06:35 GMT, eddie wrote: >iO > > Second, you are missing a major point. If you have a 64-bit microprocessor,a > > thenN > > you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64 > > bits in length.l > = > And for Alpha and IA-64, you would find one of those where?n= > Does Sun UltraSparc or SGI MIPS system compilers use 64-bit  > ints?  Do any?  A SGI doesn't, neither does the UXP/V compiler. Crays do, IIRC even ! char used to be 64 bits on Crays.S   *p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:27:17 +0200m& From: Bernd Paysan <bpaysan@mikron.de> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64e) Message-ID: <3B94BA95.EBBA19B3@mikron.de>:   Peter da Silva wrote:S > ( > In article <3B92AD21.269DA353@gmx.de>,, > Bernd Paysan  <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:L > > International sea law is old and established, it is the only law againstL > > piracy, slavery and other bad things that happend on the open sea before > > it was defined.o > L > You think they don't happen any more? In the Indian Ocean, the South China0 > Sea, and all points between they certainly do.  H Of course people do break laws, especially if the less civilized nationsA they live in don't care about what they do. International sea law.E certainly is "just" a convention, but civilized nations should followqB conventions even without being forced to (that's what's makes themF civilized). Some large nations lately think that being civilized isn'tC necessary any longer, because the only thing that matters is to win 3 elections, and then get the hands on the big money.m   --   Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"- http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:06:45 GMTc2 From: "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@nospam.yahoo.com.spam> Subject: Re: alpha - ia642= Message-ID: <pt3l7.92406$n75.23124918@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>a  9 "Ken Hagan" <K.Hagan@thermoteknix.co.uk> wrote in messaget: news:newscache$1ds4jg$ag9$1@firewall.thermoteknix.co.uk...D > Most 64-bit Unices require 32-bit ints and 64-bit longs, and Win64D > requires 32-bit ints and longs, so any compiler for these two OSes. > would be brain dead if it used a 64-bit int.  G Whoa! 32-bit ints *and* longs? So what would a 64-bit integer be callede under Win64?       Yousuf Khane   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 02:00:31 GMTs/ From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin)k Subject: Re: alpha - ia64e1 Message-ID: <9n1cjv$8oi$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>I  7 In article <slrn9p60jo.170h.andrew@gurney.reilly.home>,:1 Andrew Reilly <areilly@nsw.bigpond.net.au> wrote:  > A >The problem arises as soon as you want to manipulate an array ofa@ >something with more than 2G _elements_.  Sure, the start of theA >array is a 64-bit address, and address arithmetic has to be done-A >with address-sized integers, but C (at least) insists that arrayo< >indices are "int".  If int is only 32-bits, then you have a	 >problem.n8 >Question: how _do_ other languages handle this problem?  9 You should switch to FORTRAN if you want a language that k actually supports arrays  :-)u  = Most vendors of Fortran compilers for 64-bit systems have an n< option to set the "default integer" (which is used for array indexing) to 64 bits.   6 For the IBM XLF compiler, the option is "-qintsize=8".9 I seem to recall using "-i8" on SGI machines, though thatt has been a while now.... -- a9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.com F Senior Technical Staff Member     IBM POWER Microprocessor Development-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long ash1      someone else is willing to learn from them."    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 13:08:54 GMTa From: Dan.Pop@cern.ch (Dan Pop)t Subject: Re: alpha - ia64e* Message-ID: <9n2jp6$5h3$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  i In <pt3l7.92406$n75.23124918@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@nospam.yahoo.com.spam> writes:t  : >"Ken Hagan" <K.Hagan@thermoteknix.co.uk> wrote in message; >news:newscache$1ds4jg$ag9$1@firewall.thermoteknix.co.uk...DE >> Most 64-bit Unices require 32-bit ints and 64-bit longs, and Win64_E >> requires 32-bit ints and longs, so any compiler for these two OSesb/ >> would be brain dead if it used a 64-bit int.= >  >Whoa! 32-bit ints *and* longs?-   Reminds me of Alpha/VMS :-)u  6 >So what would a 64-bit integer be called under Win64?  G Probably some obscure name like __int64.  With a less obscure typedef, u8 like int64_t, if the implementation supports <stdint.h>.   Dan  -- Dan Pope CERN, IT Divisiona Email: Dan.Pop@cern.ch  ? Mail:  CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland,   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:13:31 GMTi7 From: george+spam@snork.capybara.org (George Coulouris)p Subject: Re: alpha - ia64e9 Message-ID: <%r4l7.7708$Op6.1514369@typhoon1.gnilink.net>F  P In article <pt3l7.92406$n75.23124918@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>, Yousuf Khan wrote:; > "Ken Hagan" <K.Hagan@thermoteknix.co.uk> wrote in message < > news:newscache$1ds4jg$ag9$1@firewall.thermoteknix.co.uk...E >> Most 64-bit Unices require 32-bit ints and 64-bit longs, and Win64mE >> requires 32-bit ints and longs, so any compiler for these two OSes,/ >> would be brain dead if it used a 64-bit int.s > I > Whoa! 32-bit ints *and* longs? So what would a 64-bit integer be called  > under Win64? >  >     Yousuf KhanP >  >   ; long long, __int64, LARGE_INTEGER, maybe some others .. :-)    -Georget   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:19:43 GMTi  From: "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64iF Message-ID: <3q5l7.7121$Uf1.544248@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  J "Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer" <Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com>; wrote in message news:9n26lo$mpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...-5 > [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]n >e$ > "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> writes:/ > >"Dan Pop" <Dan.Pop@cern.ch> wrote in messages& > >Then they are not 64-bit compilers.G > >They may generate code that executes on 64-bit machines and are ableeG > >to use 64-bit primitives, but, the term 64-bit compiler implies thatt= > >the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit.t > By whose authority?sH > Nearly everybody in the industry agrees that having a 64-bit "int" andA > 64-bit "long" is a mistake and that it is more natural to have:, > type sizeof(type)n > char 1	 > short 2u > int 4u > long 8
 > void * 8
 > size_t 8 > intptr_t 85 > Or you're left with a whole in your type structure.n< > 64-bit means "uses a 64 bit address space and has a native= > 64-bit integral type", at least in the part of the industry   ! Isn't that the same thing I said:-  = "the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit" ?   ; > I'm working in (not just Sun, but all 64-bit Unix vendorse/ > except perhaps Cray use the same conventions)6 > Casper   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 14:56:37 GMTh& From: zaitcev@yahoo.com (Pete Zaitcev) Subject: Re: alpha - ia64k= Message-ID: <slrn9p9qt6.aej.zaitcev@devserv.devel.redhat.com>     > From: eddie <NullVoid@att.net> > L > "Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer" <Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com>= > wrote in message news:9n26lo$mpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...n  > > > 64-bit means "uses a 64 bit address space and has a native? > > 64-bit integral type", at least in the part of the industrye > # > Isn't that the same thing I said:s > ? > "the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit" ?d  9 No. You said "default", which is int, and int is 32 bits.h; Casper said "available", which may be long. But the defaulte is 32.  3 And learn to trim quotations when doing follow-ups.u   -- Petei   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 14:31:00 GMTpN From: Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer) Subject: Re: alpha - ia64h0 Message-ID: <9n2oj4$sc8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  3 [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]u  " "eddie" <NullVoid@att.net> writes:    6 >> Or you're left with a whole in your type structure.= >> 64-bit means "uses a 64 bit address space and has a nativeD> >> 64-bit integral type", at least in the part of the industry  " >Isn't that the same thing I said:  > >"the native, default size for data and addresses is 64-bit" ?    B No, not unless you believe "long" classifies as "default" integralG object in C; the type that classifies as default is "int"; it is 32 bit-$ in most 64 bit Unix implementations.   Casper --F Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related2 to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.? Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and mays be fiction rather than truth.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 15:49:54 GMTP/ From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin)f Subject: Re: alpha - ia64a1 Message-ID: <9n2t72$kmc$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>   3 In article <ocYk7.17789$x84.4548089@ruti.visi.com>,e- Andy Isaacson <adi@pirx.hexapodia.org> wrote: 8 >In article <slrn9p8ce3.2lsq.andrew@gurney.reilly.home>,2 >Andrew Reilly <areilly@nsw.bigpond.net.au> wrote: >>eddie wrote:N >>> you buy a 64-bit compiler. With a 64 bit compiler, int would default to 64 >>> bits in length.T >>= >>And for Alpha and IA-64, you would find one of those where?r= >>Does Sun UltraSparc or SGI MIPS system compilers use 64-bity >>ints?  Do any?  9 The SGI MIPS Fortran compiler will use 64-bit integers ifz; you compile with the -i8 option.   I would not be surprised ; if the SGI IA64 Fortran compiler supported the same option.   = I don't remember if the SGI C compiler also has this feature.       > IBM's XLF/Fortran compiler uses "-qintsize=8" to select 64-bit integers.  h  > IBM's Visual Age for C++ compiler (which includes "C for AIX")> includes an option to force all default-sized literal integers@ to 64-bit ("-qlonglit").  Visual Age for C++ uses the LP64 model; when compiled in 64-bit mode, so "int" remains 32-bits, but,= "long" uses 64-bits.  I don't believe that Visual Age for C++c? has on option to set "int" to 64 bits (i.e., ILP64 mode), but I6 could be wrong there.....> -- h9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.comrF Senior Technical Staff Member     IBM POWER Microprocessor Development-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long asr1      someone else is willing to learn from them."a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:47:10 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> $ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris$ Message-ID: <3b94db9e$1@news.si.com>  D >"Sheep" may be a pejorative, but it is important for VMS to be ableB >to say they have an "Industry Standard" web server.  Even if someC >system manager chooses OSU or WASD, it may impress their boss thati% >Apache is available to fall back on.a  I Apache is no fallback if you don't run Alphas.  With OSU or WASD, even antE unimpressive MicroVAX 3800 can perform yeoman's work as a web server.t --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.compA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventW< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 17:42:49 GMTP1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)4$ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris: Message-ID: <9n33qp$r2l$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   Mark Daniel wrote: >t > Can't resist ... >u8 >   http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_1800.html  ) The first 2 tables on that web page show:n  D     C A C H E   D I S A B L E D            C A C H E   E N A B L E D=         requests/second                        request/second K Response Concurrent WASD OSU Apache     Response Concurrent WASD OSU Apache2G 0K       1          58   41  14         0K       1          301  46  15OG 0K       10         89   47  42         0K       10         382  64  21.G 64K      1          39   14  18         64K      1          83   18  13 G 64K      10         43   16  39         64K      10         98   21  31t  J Try running the OSU test with fileflags set 2 it's pre-3.9 of 3 instead ofF 7.  When bit 2 is set, the cache refresh logic includes a test againstE the file's expiration date field so that 'expired' files are given annM effective refresh time of zero.  A cache entry refresh is nearly as expensiveyD as reading the file since the file has to be accessed to check for aN changed modification date.  Due to a bug in the code, files with no expirationF date are treated as expired so you don't see much improvement from theO cache.  Keeping file flags at 3 skips the code path containg the bug so you getn full performance of the cache.      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:iL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:29:14 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>g( Subject: Another take on the acquisition( Message-ID: <9n32vk$8ap$1@pyrite.mv.net>  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/21445.html]   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 15:42:40 +020007 From: jthorn@mach.thp.univie.ac.at (Jonathan Thornburg)t+ Subject: big arrays (was: Re: alpha - ia64) 0 Message-ID: <9n2log$3hc$1@mach.thp.univie.ac.at>  7 In article <slrn9p6h0g.2hov.andrew@gurney.reilly.home>,e1 Andrew Reilly <areilly@nsw.bigpond.net.au> wrote:  >I can't> >think of any good uses for arrays with more than 2G elements, >off the top of my head   A People doing scientific computation often want to use much biggert arrays than that.o  F Way back in Jan 1998, someone posted to comp.sys.super about a Caltech group doing 4.75G point FFTs.   C Many of my colleagues are using arrays of 512*512*512*100 or so fornD black-hole-collision simulations (and will use larger arrays as soon+ as we get access to bigger supercomputers).t  C SGI has sold at least one Origin system with a terabyte of RAM, andnH given the customer (NASA) and the sort of work (numerical aerodynamics),> that will often be used for a modest number of huge 3D arrays.  3 We won't even get into what the spooks are doing...6   -- s) -- Jonathan Thornburg <jthorn@aei.mpg.de>>J    Max-Planck-Institut fuer Gravitationsphysik (Albert-Einstein-Institut),D    Golm, Germany             http://www.aei.mpg.de/~jthorn/home.htmlJ    "The first strike in the American Colonies was in 1776 in Philadelphia,C     when [...] carpenters demanded a 72-hour week." -- Anatole Beckt   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:28:37 GMT62 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)< Subject: Re: C on EV6 (was Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issues)3 Message-ID: <Fq6l7.1183$bB1.47498@news.cpqcorp.net>e  U In article <9mr8g4$jag2@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <best@hotmail.com> writes:iH :I am using EV5 processor and want to upgrade to EV6 (21264a) processor.G :Compaq says I need to recompile my C program with the C version 6.0 oreL :above. Does anyone out there has the problem in running your application inJ :EV6 which is compile with C below 6.0? Or do you have encounter any third1 :party product which is not compatiable with EV6?u  B   Older compilers could generate an instruction sequence which wasH   a violation of the Alpha architecure.  On Alpha microprocessors prior B   to the EV6 (21264) core, this instruction sequence architecturalD   violation was benign, but it can cause process-level hangs on EV6.  '   For details on this area, please see:e  <     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/21264/  D   While you will want to rebuild your code simply because the newer D   compilers are rather better at generating and optimizing code and A   the because newer compilers can (optionally) generate the added:E   byte-word instructions (see the OpenVMS FAQ), you will not have to  E   rebuild your code unless one of the errant " instruction sequences hF   is lurking in your code.  The above URL has further information and =   has a tool that can scan for the bad instruction sequences.   J   Oracle Rdb was also capable of generating the non-compliant instruction C   sequences, as it too included the errant version of the GEM code     generator.  D   This is specific to the Alpha architecture and to the core, and isG   not specific to any particular OpenVMS version.  All OpenVMS versions,G   that are supported on the EV6-class systems do not contain the errant4I   sequence.  For those folks that decide to run the tool against OpenVMS e=   and find it reporting the errant sequences, please re-read:   +     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/9/       freeware40/21264/21264_CONSIDERATIONS.TXT   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:57:17 +0200< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> Subject: C++ v6 "feature"l4 Message-ID: <9n21gr$4sum8$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   Hi all,t  D in the course of porting ht://Dig 3.1.5 to VMS (to have an "industry
 standard" ;-)tI search engine for CSWS), I stumbled over a "feature" of the DEC/Compaq/HPo C++tK compiler (version 6.2). The following makes CXXLINK bark over an unresolvedt
 reference:   [- HtWordType.h -] class HtWordType {h public:n!   friend int HtIsWordChar(int c);s private:   static struct InnerStatics   {o     ...e   } statics; }j   inline int HtIsWordChar(int c) {-"   ... uses HtWordType::statics ... }1   [- HtWordType.cc -]u #include "HtWordType.h"y  - HtWordType::InnerStatics HtWordType::statics;g   [- StringMatch.cc -] #include "HtWordType.h"e   ... uses HtIsWordChar() ...t    E When linking with StringMatch.obj (and HtWordType.obj), CXXLINK can'tt resolvei HtWordType::statics.   The release notes back this:  4 4.4 Undefined Global Symbols for Static Data MembersI When a static data member is declared, the compiler issues a reference toa theiC external identifier in the object code, which must be resolved by ae definition.   J My question is: Why doesn't the compiler generate a global definition from the0 HtWordType.cc definition?a  K Or: How to change the HtWordType::statics definition so that it can resolve  thej
 reference?  I Or: How to implement a work-around (best without removing the "inline" as> theser@ are character test functions - likely to be called quite often)?    Thanks in advance for any hints.   cu,a   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.det One OS to bring them all      |a( http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:42:29 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>3 Subject: Compaq and HP  ?(Lan Console Prophecy) ;-)l@ Message-ID: <20010904114229.55221.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>  & Finally we will have HP Lan Console=20 in Compaq machines ! :-)))   I think I was prophetic !=20   Regards        =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DiL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilB fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com2   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:24:23 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>.5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey dropx: Message-ID: <Z70l7.8266$A24.1622941@news20.bellglobal.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B940C6C.ED982191@videotron.ca... > Neil Rieck wrote: + > > http://www.theinquirer.net/02090110.htmb >>L > Now, I found the following most interesting: (the above contains a companyG > confidential document to help sales droids when fighting against IBM:  >cG > * IBM feels the Power architecture will give them more opportunity tos% > differentiate their UNIX solutions.t >iL > * This move simplifies IBM's platform architectures and marketing. AIX and > OS/400 will be on Power,- >    and Linux plus Windows will be on Intel.3 >w >eH > When you put those statements up against the statements Compaq made to justifyrK > the Alpha murder, it makes for good comedy.  Funny how Compaq spins IBM'siH > decision with logic that is opposite to the logica used to justify the
 Alpha murder.0  I Now that Alpha is as good as dead, IBM sales people probably see a largerHK marketplace for POWER technology. What's next? HP announcing no end of lifee in sight for PA-RISC?.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:21:48 +0100t0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey dropn* Message-ID: <3B94C75C.CBA74FFD@uk.sun.com>   Neil Rieck wrote:  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B940C6C.ED982191@videotron.ca... > > Neil Rieck wrote:m- > > > http://www.theinquirer.net/02090110.htma > >6N > > Now, I found the following most interesting: (the above contains a companyI > > confidential document to help sales droids when fighting against IBM:r > >nI > > * IBM feels the Power architecture will give them more opportunity toD' > > differentiate their UNIX solutions.e > > N > > * This move simplifies IBM's platform architectures and marketing. AIX and > > OS/400 will be on Power,/ > >    and Linux plus Windows will be on Intel.n > >i > >hJ > > When you put those statements up against the statements Compaq made to	 > justifytM > > the Alpha murder, it makes for good comedy.  Funny how Compaq spins IBM'seJ > > decision with logic that is opposite to the logica used to justify the > Alpha murder.b > K > Now that Alpha is as good as dead, IBM sales people probably see a largernM > marketplace for POWER technology. What's next? HP announcing no end of life8 > in sight for PA-RISC?  >   : No HP are buying Compaq in a 25 billion dollar Stock Swap.  ? Carly will be CEO Mike President and the deal will be completede early 2002.i   Regards  Andrew Harrisonm Enterprise IT Architectn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:16:06 -04002 From: "Gary E. Green" <gegreen@dra-consulting.com>5 Subject: Re: Compaq's Spin on IBM's AIX Monterey drop 8 Message-ID: <3b94dc62$0$93673$f92e4de5@news.stratos.net>    And in the same  Compaq posting:E >* IBM does not have a good track record of laying out a strategy andaJ sticking with it. IBM programs typically last two years or less before theF strategy >changes. This makes it difficult for IBM's customers to plan
 long-term.  I >* With IBM decommitting AIX on Intel and HP's UNIX business fading fast,sH events are coming together to make Compaq's Tru64 UNIX the future leader >for UNIX on Intel.t  L >* Compaq welcomes IBM's Intel platform customers who were 'dropped' by this move.   K The whole dance becomes even funnier (in a "no, no, cut your wrist longwaysnJ and not crossways" sort of way) when you compare with following portion of@ Capellas memo to the troops annoucing HP's acquistion of Compaq:  C >"...But we have two significant gaps in our portfolio that make it:L difficult for us to be truly recognized as a major player in the enterprise.J One is a leadership >position in data center UNIX. On the plus side, we'reD competitive in some key segments of the UNIX market. Tru64 UNIX is aG technical leader, and we've >been gaining market share. But our overalleB position is not broad enough, particularly in the data center...."  F For entire memo, see http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/21444.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:52:31 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 2 Subject: Re: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update8 Message-ID: <0129ptohhaent6fs809c9lm29kjedctl81@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 11:27:43 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"l <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >  >tH >So Compaq will go on believing that it's always right and the market isI >always wrong, their stock price will tank, and who knows - maybe someonee8 >like me can pick up OVMS & Co. at a bankruptcy auction. >-& >Good things come to those who wait...   Yes, HP it seems!P -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:54:31 GMTs  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>2 Subject: Re: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update8 Message-ID: <tfj9ptk96i710a34krudq85m95e2delj4v@4ax.com>  D Well, I guess we all have our answer today on the sudden turn-around2 in the Alpha business.  Wow!  Is it ever a doozie!  E One  real burning question left is:  What will Terry Shannon call hisd publication now?    E On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:23:58 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o wrote:   >>2 >"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message3 >news:anLj7.1361$cJ1.247928@typhoon1.gnilink.net...m >>2 >> "- bill" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message: >> news:841e9c22.0108301720.52039f3b@posting.google.com...A >> > To refresh your memory:  Compaq broke the written, explicit,hK >> > unequivocal commitments to Alpha's future expressed in the 'commitmenteE >> > to Alpha' letter from Jesse Lipcon and Bill Heil that was postedCD >> > prominently on Compaq's Web site until well after the June 25thK >> > announcement.  In case you never saw that letter during the 2 years orCG >> > so it was there, you can find a copy that I posted to comp.arch on-J >> > August 19th under the "I hate Compaq" thread (a thread not started byJ >> > me, by the way), since some people there seemed to be unfamiliar withJ >> > the letter and it had finally disappeared from the Web site.  SimilarJ >> > commitments were made to many individual customers as well, of courseH >> > - right up to June 25th (see an August 27th post from Alan Greig inI >> > the same thread for just one example among many).  Compaq broke them,6 >> > all without any hint of apology, let alone shame. >>- >> You have repeatedly claimed Compaq "lied".a >SB >I'm beginning to think that you have severe reading-comprehensionM >difficulties.  The paragraph above has nothing directly to do with lies:  it"L >explicitly addresses the 'broken commitments' portion of what you asked forJ >details about (though, as Jan pointed out in his response, the letter wasK >used, right up to June 25th, to *support* subsequent lies told by Compaq).t >n >... >eJ >> The fact is was posted after June 25th does not mean someone knew the 2 >year I >> old letter was there and intentionally left it posted.  Who knows if I H >> search Compaq's web site I might find an old page talking about their >> commitment to the PDP-11. >nG >Again, see Jan's response:  not only was Compaq well aware that it wasnG >there, but it consistently used it to bolster subsequent statements of- >commitment. >0 >>L >> You set the standard that Compaq "lied" (known falsehoods) and you failed >toa# >> meet the standard with this one.q >2@ >No, you just failed to meet minimal standards of comprehension. >' >>G >> > Compaq attempted to justify the decision by asserting that Alpha's K >> > engineers had told it that Alpha would have difficulty keeping up with K >> > IA64's performance.  One Alpha architect has stated publicly that this H >> > was an outright double-lie (i.e., no such statement was made by theE >> > Alpha engineers, nor do they concur with its content:  Alpha was E >> > chugging right along the path laid out for it years ago, with noKH >> > unexpected recent hiccups - until Compaq pulled out the rug on JuneA >> > 25th), and other Alpha architects (plus one high-level Alpha K >> > development manager) have privately agreed with him.  Not one has comeg) >> > forward to support Compaq's version.h >>G >> You will have to point me to where one of these Alpha architect saide >this - : >> forgive if I don't have blind faith in your statements. >rK >What I don't forgive you for is your failure to make even minimal attemptstK >to become familiar with the material under discussion before wading in andnK >suggesting that people who *have* made that effort don't know what they'rea >talking about.d >tM >If you didn't see them at the time, you can search comp.arch and comp.os.vmspH >for posts from Brannon Batson as easily as I can:  I suggest you do so. >  >  Also I need your L >> reference to where Compaq said it would have trouble "keeping up" becauseG >> from day one I heard it as Compaq would have trouble maintaining itsaL >> performance edge over IPF three generations out.  What I was told is veryG >> different than what you claim Compaq said - there is a major between-E >> "keeping up" and "maintaining its performance edge".  It was never@
 >expressedA >> to me as Alpha falling behind but instead IPF closing the gap.$ >yK >The latter is as much a lie as the former, according to private statements-M >made by the Alpha engineers in question to multiple people (at least to PaulhK >DeMone and myself, plus I think to Bob Kaplow).  And you may find explicitaM >public statements by Brannon to that effect, though I'm not sure now whetherg >they were public or private.> > C >There was also a private, internal statement by a high-level AlphaoK >development manager that the decision to drop Alpha was made for business,a >not technical, reasons. > M >While the suggestion that Alpha would have difficulty keeping up was made ataL >some point, I don't have the patience to wade through Google trying to findK >it.  So let's just call the contention that Alpha couldn't have retained a 9 >significant performance lead a lie and leave it at that.  >a >>M >> My understanding of what drove the decision was more than pure chip speed.nM >> I was told upfront that it was at the system performance level that became 
 >> the issue.u >iI >All the more reason for Compaq to retain the advantages Alpha gave it inaL >that area - e.g., EV7's on-chip glue, which would have given EV8 continuingL >*system* advantages over the competition in addition to EV8's new features. >sJ >Alpha's advantages weren't only in on-chip speed, but in integration thatH >enhanced overall system speed.  Now they're stalled as of EV7, and will- >appear in IA64 (if at all) years after that.e >rA >  Remember Alpha's performance advantage was both its chip speed-K >> and the fact that it was 64 bit.  What the team saw who was building thedJ >> follow-on to the Wildfire was the IPF systems would close in on Alpha's >> systems in the future >7B >Bullshit.  The Wildfire follow-on is Marvel, which will enjoy theL >performance advantages of EV7's on-chip glue and thus draw farther ahead ofL >IPF in real-world use rather than lose ground.  EV8 showed every promise ofK >even greater performance differentiation in server applications due to SMTrK >(with no loss of ground even in single-threaded use, due to its ability toC >use 8-wide issue there).e >u6 > - it was never ever expressed to me as Alpha systems# >> would have trouble "keeping up".  >>M >> I seriously disagree with your statement as to what Compaq claimed - I see 0 >> no lie here. Plus the article you quote belowH >> (http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 ) backs up what I said >> above...c >>= >>     "This is a very bold move for us," said Rich Marcello,a6 >>     vice president and general manager for Compaq's3 >>     performance systems group. He noted that they6 >>     Alpha road map extended for several more years,9 >>     but that starting around 2004, when the chip woulda: >>     have competed head-to-head against Intel's Itanium,D >>     its performance advantage would begin to erode significantly.; >>     "When we looked at our road map and overlaid it withq: >>     Intel's road map, we found there was no substantial? >>     performance benefit," he said. "Basically, we are sayingrB >>     that we couldn't differentiate ourselves at the CPU level." >>H >> ... he did not say that there was a problem with "keeping up" he said >there2 >> was a problem with maintaining the "advantage". > M >The phrase 'no substantial performance benefit' is quite a bit stronger thaneD >the allegation that the advantage might erode somewhat - but to all >appearances both are false. >eF >The advantages (on-chip glue for RAMBUS and SMP) that EV7 enjoys overD >McKinley, and those that EV8 would have added (SMT plus wider-issueI >single-thread performance were biggies, but there may have been others),4H >plus the absence of any new indication of post-McKinley enhancements toM >IA64, plus the arguments advanced in Compaq's own alpha-vs.-IA64 white paperSM >(alpha_ia64.pdf), make it reasonable to call Rich's statements lies:  he wasoJ >certainly well aware of all these factors (having been using them to sell8 >Alphas for years), and made no attempt to address them. >- >>H >> > Inconsistently, Compaq also, via employee newsgroup posts and via aF >> > discussion Mark Gorham and VMS engineers had with 'Alphaman' (seeB >> > c.o.v. posts the week of the announcement), stated that AlphaH >> > technology would be used to 'rescue' the failing IA64 architecture,J >> > resulting in technology equivalent to what Alpha otherwise would haveK >> > been - and in a time-frame that would benefit the VMS port by the timesB >> > it was completed.  This lie was so incompetent (and likely soI >> > unwelcome when Intel heard about it) that it died out very quickly -aC >> > but it nonetheless happened, and Compaq is accountable for it.  >>M >> Internal newsgroup postings - give me a break.  Compaq (not individuals intJ >> newsgroups) has never publically said, that I have seen, that the Alpha >team  >> would "rescue" IPF. >eM >You're free to call Alphaman a liar, but I'd suggest that having Mark GorhamWC >do so would be more appropriate, since to all appearances you knowe( >absolutely nothing about the situation. >lM >And as for newsgroup postings, you have Compaq to thank for not having otherm: >more formal discussion forums to depend upon for answers. >o >... >e7 >> I would want to see the exact Mark Gorham statement.o >sK >As I suspect would a lot of people, including me.  Why not ask him to takee- >the initiative in breaking Compaq's silence?d >e >  As far as what mostL >> employees (not Compaq but employees) said the week of the announcement it >> should be ignored.h >iD >Funny - at least one of them went so far as to say that he had been >authorized to speak.s >  >... >oH >> > And Compaq presented Alpha development costs as being unsupportableJ >> > (see a June 27th eWeek interview with Winkler, plus additional drivelB >> > from Terry and others - including you).  I responded to theseK >> > assertions in a July 19th posting in the c.o.v. "Alpha:  an invitationoF >> > to communicate" thread, plus other smaller supporting posts sinceD >> > then, and, again, no one has stepped forward with contradictoryI >> > evidence to suggest that this was not yet another Compaq lie (though1G >> > an EETimes story - http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 - F >> > suggests that Winkler's statement that Alpha's annual developmentF >> > costs were $300 million was yet another lie, and the R&D spendingD >> > projections in Compaq's own annual reports tend to support that >> > suspicion). >>M >> My understanding is the costs came from all of Alpha _systems_ development3I >> and NOT just the cost of pure chip development.  For example each time_D >> Compaq needed to burn a new set of ASIC's for the Wildfire duringL >> development the cost was about one million dollars per batch - those costK >> start to add up very quickly.  It is not just the chip - it is the total3E >> cost of maintaining the server development effort unique to Alpha.' >>L >> Did Winkler say "Alpha's annual development costs" or did he say "Alpha'sF >> annual _chip_ development costs".  There is a big difference there. >Please3/ >> point me to the source of the Winkler quote.o > J >I did:  the June 27th eWeek article I mentioned above.  Here's the quote: >gM >'According to Winkler, just to design and develop future generation of AlphalK >was costing Compaq $300 million a year, he said. "That's no small change,"t
 >he said.' >e
 >and the URL:rC >http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2780645,00.html  >pK >However, since Compaq's server-development expenses are at least currentlyoH >slated to continue (e.g., its 'commitment' to develop Marvel-style IA64L >servers, though exactly what that means is not clear, given that so much ofH >Marvel's attraction derives from EV7's on-chip glue features which seemG >impossible to add to IA64 before 2005 at the earliest), including sucheH >expenses in the figure above would seem disingenuous at best, but couldK >explain the factor-of-2 discrepancy between the EETimes cost estimate (andn+ >the Compaq annual reports') and Winkler's.  >e >> >> > Clear enough for you now? >>J >> All that is clear Bill is that your conclusions are based upon the spin >youJ >> have attached to Compaq's actions and not what Compaq has actually been
 >> saying. >uJ >Why *anyone* would treat what Compaq says at this point as significant isG >not at all obvious.  But its statements in the Heil/Lipcon letter werefK >entirely unambiguous, so at least in that case my conclusions are based onr >*exactly* what Compaq said. > > >  You haven't backup up your case that Compaq "lied" (willfulK >> misrepresentation) and several statements you made above are contrary tof >> what I heard from Compaq. >rI >So?  Why do you believe Compaq rather than, say, the Alpha engineers whouI >vigorously and without a single dissenting voice deny what Compaq claimso# >they told it?  Please be specific.s >M2 >  They only claim above you have that holds water2 >> is that Compaq's commitment to Alpha changed... >wG >There's a not-very-subtle difference between one's internal feeling ofaE >'commitment' to a platform and one's external, explict, written, andt# >repeated commitments to customers.m >  >- bill' >  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 05:20:56 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: CPQ -> HP@ Message-ID: <20010904122056.19202.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>    Tru64 will change name again ...  0 Do you trust in an unix which changed name three3 (four) times ? :-) Probably it will become HP-TrUX.   ' Ok, VMS changed once  ! VMS -> OpenVMS.p0 VMS and MPE will be in the same Business Area, I believe !=20   Rgards   FC=20-  , --- Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:) > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA....!!!!g >=20# > So what happens to Tru64 and VMS?m > --=20n > Howard S Shubs2 > "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you > have good backups!"      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dc F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.comt   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:27:06 -0700 + From: Kor.Rinkens@libertel.nl (Kor Rinkens) - Subject: Re: DCL command file to requeue jobsf= Message-ID: <6a144f39.0109040427.69cff487@posting.google.com>   x "Airnews" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> wrote in message news:<DAC100152F603D79.3FAB745C8999546F.87C96A7F18847D20@lp.airnews.net>...M > Thought I saw a command file that would re-create in a DCL script all of hen6 > jobs queued in a system... that way one could changeL > "_$1$Dua10:[Foo]Test.Dat;37" to _$1$Dga1276:[Foo]Test.Dat;"  and re-submitL > them after zapping the queue file... thinking an OpenVMS upgrade that usesN > this for cases where jobs are queued and they need to completely restructure > the queue file...:  C You can write a dcl.com file. You have to use the lexical f$getqui,-F with this lexical  you can read all jobs defined on one or more queues in your system.   E With the input from f$getqui you read, you can build a new submit.comhC file. After an application upgrade for example, you can remove your5A old jobs and submit your new jobs with the submit.com. Be user to ' remove the ;37 in ; in your submit.com.   E If you have to change the directory you can do that in the submit.comk with your editor.a  E Once i made such a job for about 30 queues with about 300 jobs in it.-' Maybe i have the job at home on a tape.    Regards kore   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:26:18 -04000 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca.spammenot>- Subject: Re: DCL command file to requeue jobsa5 Message-ID: <vm6l7.57927$TW.306430@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>.   I have a .COM that does this.   L I use it when we buy newer disks and move the contents of an old disk to theG new one. Also when I update a .Com and it's already waiting on a queue.a  L It is on my website at http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem/prog_library.htm and it is called RESUBMIT.COMo  E Parameter P3 = old,new to specifiy old and new disk. It will resubmit:L whatever job that references the old disk with command file name or log file name.  --   Syltreme; http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site)     9 "Airnews" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> a crit dans le message news:tD DAC100152F603D79.3FAB745C8999546F.87C96A7F18847D20@lp.airnews.net...J > Thought I saw a command file that would re-create in a DCL script all of he6 > jobs queued in a system... that way one could changeL > "_$1$Dua10:[Foo]Test.Dat;37" to _$1$Dga1276:[Foo]Test.Dat;"  and re-submitL > them after zapping the queue file... thinking an OpenVMS upgrade that usesB > this for cases where jobs are queued and they need to completely restructurer > the queue file...h >a >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:29:12 -0400- From: "www.islandco.com" <sales@islandco.com>S% Subject: Digital and Alpha to Survivea/ Message-ID: <tp9vro7hbaru38@news.supernews.com>-  L I wonder if the "digital" logo and the Alpha name will come back to life now that HP is purchasing Compaq  L HP being a more Scientific company, I am sure holds a lot of respect for the Digital of yester-decade.e  / HP could do a lot by rekindling the DEC badge -g    F Hope they keep the discounts in check also - good for us resellers :0)   DAVIDb   -- David B Turner	 Sales Dptt Island Computers US Corporatione 2700 Gregory Streete	 Suite 180n Savannah GA 31404f Tel: 912 447 6622( Fax: 912 201 0096t sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htmr   We sell Alpha's !l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:17:13 -0700s' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>o) Subject: Re: Digital and Alpha to Survivei+ Message-ID: <3B950C99.18B96678@caltech.edu>s   "www.islandco.com" wrote:   N > HP being a more Scientific company, I am sure holds a lot of respect for the > Digital of yester-decade.l >w  M HP is no more scientific than any other computer vendor.  The Scientific partm of HP was spun offL as Agilent a while back.  The HP that exists now is all the computer related parts, including the printer division.t   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:21:22 -0700j8 From: michaelandbarbarayoung@hotmail.com (Michael Young)Y Subject: dir help ---%LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.NLB;1.= Message-ID: <c59f611e.0109040721.1bc6cf4d@posting.google.com>a   Hi all,   F Can anyone tell me what I've done wrong here using dir in a .com file?C I can't make any sense of the error msg.  I'm using dir twice here. F Once to display the files before the purge command is used.  Once more< to display the file after the old versions have been purged.  = Works the 1st time, returns a %LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error openingdE SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.NLB;1 as input-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient 5 privilege or file protection violation error the 2nd.w   See below & thanks in advance          $p $a $ TYPE PTF.COM !PTF.COM ->PURGE TEMP FILES'" !CLEANS UP ROUTINELY UPDATED FILES !  $ON WARNING THEN EXITv2 $DIR TEMP.TXT, CUSTOMERS.TXT, SUPPLIERS.TXT, *.COM $PURGE TEMP.TXTf $PURGE CUSTOMERS.TXT $PURGE SUPPLIERS.TXT $PURGE *.COM2 $DIR TEMP.TXT, CUSTOMERS.TXT, SUPPLIERS.TXT, *.COM $    $o $  $ @PTF  % Directory ESONIC$DKB200:[WPG_MICHAEL]   ; TEMP.TXT;29         CUSTOMERS.TXT;106   CUSTOMERS.TXT;105  o SUPPLIERS.TXT;21F SUPPLIERS.TXT;20    2.COM;12            DEFKEYS.COM;11      FIND.COM;4/ PR.COM;11           PTF.COM;4           X.COM;2i   Total of 11 files.D %LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.NLB;1 as input? -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violationo $    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 19:37:46 +0200e, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>Y Subject: Re: dir help ---%LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.Ni& Message-ID: <3B95116A.CFDD1AD0@gmx.ch>   Michael Young wrote:   > $ TYPE PTF.COM > !PTF.COM ->PURGE TEMP FILESt$ > !CLEANS UP ROUTINELY UPDATED FILES > !n > $ON WARNING THEN EXITe4 > $DIR TEMP.TXT, CUSTOMERS.TXT, SUPPLIERS.TXT, *.COM > $PURGE TEMP.TXTa > $PURGE CUSTOMERS.TXT > $PURGE SUPPLIERS.TXT > $PURGE *.COM4 > $DIR TEMP.TXT, CUSTOMERS.TXT, SUPPLIERS.TXT, *.COM > $a > $  > $T > $ @PTF > ' > Directory ESONIC$DKB200:[WPG_MICHAEL]e > ; > TEMP.TXT;29         CUSTOMERS.TXT;106   CUSTOMERS.TXT;105w > SUPPLIERS.TXT;21H > SUPPLIERS.TXT;20    2.COM;12            DEFKEYS.COM;11      FIND.COM;41 > PR.COM;11           PTF.COM;4           X.COM;2, >  > Total of 11 files.F > %LIBRAR-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]NCS$LIBRARY.NLB;1
 > as inputA > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violationi > $    A few comments:   H 1. All HP OpenVMS DCL command procedure lines should start with a dollar sign, even commented lines.r  < 2. Obviously you have some DCL verbs redefined, as the PURGE4 demonstrates (/KEEP=2 defined within the PURGE verb)  > 3. May I suggest you give understandable names to your command) procedures instead of PTF, 2, X, PR etc.?t  # Could you post a $ show symbol DIR?o   D. -- n> ==============================================================> 4-sep-2001: one of the three happiest days of my whole life...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:40:53 GMT6& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>6 Subject: European Merger Block (was Re: I hate Compaq)9 Message-ID: <VJ5l7.7878$Op6.1542236@typhoon1.gnilink.net>m  I My guess is the Europeans are getting close to touching off a major tradewJ war. The GE/Honeywell merger raised red flags because the blocked a mergerJ of US based companies that the US regulators had cleared.  It appears thatJ the EU is applying a higher standard to US only based company mergers thanI EU/EU or EU/US based company mergers.  It may or may not be the Compaq/HPcI merger but there are folks in Congress taking note and there are a lot ofu. folks in Congress from California and Texas...    2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:76n9pt8155jor2ooeuq306rqf79vl5b6lq@4ax.com...E > On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:57:02 GMT, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote:n >sI > >Well, I guess as of this morning we can all stop worrying why you hatee
 > >Compaq. >pA > Interestingly some UK news agencies are reporting that European>/ > regulators are hinting they might block this.f > onsider it s	 > >R.I.P.a > >  > >c > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:57:56 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d: Subject: Re: European Merger Block (was Re: I hate Compaq)8 Message-ID: <bqq9pt065186n266g3kg72olhst2l79bj1@4ax.com>  B On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:40:53 GMT, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:  J >My guess is the Europeans are getting close to touching off a major tradeK >war. The GE/Honeywell merger raised red flags because the blocked a mergermK >of US based companies that the US regulators had cleared.  It appears thatiK >the EU is applying a higher standard to US only based company mergers thaneJ >EU/EU or EU/US based company mergers.  It may or may not be the Compaq/HPJ >merger but there are folks in Congress taking note and there are a lot of/ >folks in Congress from California and Texas...   @ Perhaps if US regulators still had teeth the European regulatorsF wouldn't need to keep stepping in? But I agree ultimately this sort ofE thing could spark off a trade war and considering the great Europe/US C banana trade war has just ended maybe both sides would like to playm for higher stakes.   >> Alanh >b   -- Alan   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:42:49 +0000 (UTC)/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> : Subject: Re: European Merger Block (was Re: I hate Compaq)2 Message-ID: <999625376.496782@haldjas.folklore.ee>  2 In comp.arch Jeff Killeen <Jeff@idm-io.com> wrote:K > My guess is the Europeans are getting close to touching off a major tradeCL > war. The GE/Honeywell merger raised red flags because the blocked a mergerL > of US based companies that the US regulators had cleared.  It appears thatL > the EU is applying a higher standard to US only based company mergers thanK > EU/EU or EU/US based company mergers.  It may or may not be the Compaq/HPaK > merger but there are folks in Congress taking note and there are a lot off0 > folks in Congress from California and Texas...  I Unless you haven't been paying attention - US and EU have been in variousrH states of trade war for last several years over various kinds of issues, inc. bananas.    -- o 	Sandero   +++ Out of cheese error +++u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:09:28 -04002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: good news from Intelc3 Message-ID: <286l7.1180$bB1.47552@news.cpqcorp.net>u  F folks you may know some of the names listed in the press announcement.  E             Intel Appoints Four New Fellows, Names New Vice PresidentoL             Former Compaq Employees Join Intel as Part of ItaniumT Processor	 AgreementmH             SANTA CLARA, Calif., Aug. 30, 2001 - Intel Corporation todayL announced that four individuals have been appointed to the company's highestI technical position, Intel Fellow. The new Intel Fellows are Joel S. Emer, I Tryggve Fossum, William J. Grundmann and P. Geoffrey Lowney. In addition,oF Intel today announced that Daniel J. Casaletto has been appointed vice$ president, Intel Architecture Group.  L             Today's appointments are the result of the recent agreement withK Compaq Computer Corporation to transfer key enterprise processor technologybK to Intel and consolidate Compaq's entire 64-bit server family on the IntellE ItaniumT microprocessor family. The four Fellows and newly named vice>J president are among more than 200 former Compaq microprocessor engineeringL and design employees who have already joined Intel as part of the agreement.I The addition of this group of highly skilled technical personnel will addcL substantially to the strength of Intel Itanium Processor family development.               New Intel FellowssJ             Joel Emer is director of microarchitecture research at Intel'sL Massachusetts Microprocessor Design Center (MMDC) in Shrewsbury, Mass. Emer,J 47, is responsible for leading research in 64-bit microarchitecture designI at the MMDC. He received a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering inaL 1974 and his master's degree in 1975, both from Purdue University. He earnedH a doctorate in electrical engineering from the University of Illinois in8 1979. Emer holds nine patents with three others pending.J             Tryggve Fossum is director of microarchitecture development atB the Intel MMDC. Fossum, 56, is responsible for leading the team ofB architects helping to develop the next generation of Intel ItaniumL processors. Fossum received a Cand Mag degree in science from the UniversityL of Oslo in 1968. He earned his master's and doctorate degrees in mathematicsL from the University of Illinois in 1970 and 1972, respectively. Fossum holdsL 27 patents on various aspects of computer design -- including floating pointF processing, multithreading and cache organization technologies -- as a/ result of his work on VAX and Alpha processors.c  K             William Grundmann is director of design technologies at Intel'seH MMDC. Grundmann, 49, is responsible for specification and development ofK design methodology and computer-aided design (CAD) tools for microprocessortH design. He received his bachelor's degree in electrical engineering from@ Oklahoma State University in 1974. Grundmann holds five patents.  E             Geoff Lowney is the director of compiler and architecture4F advanced development at the Intel MMDC. Lowney, 48, is responsible forE advanced compiler technology in future Intel Itanium processor familyfK products. Lowney received his bachelor's degree in mathematics and master'spL and doctorate degrees in computer science from Yale University in 1975, 1978J and 1983, respectively. He holds six patents with an additional six patent disclosures filed.               New Vice PresidentH             Daniel Casaletto is vice president of the Intel ArchitectureJ Group and general manager of the Intel Massachusetts Microprocessor DesignJ Center. In this role, Casaletto, 51, has managerial responsibility for allG research and development activities at the MMDC. Casaletto received hisYK bachelor's and master's degrees in electrical engineering from Northeasterni* University in 1972 and 1976, respectively.D             Intel, the world's largest chip maker, is also a leadingL manufacturer of computer, networking and communications products. Additional@ information about Intel is available at www.intel.com/pressroom.  L             Intel is a trademark of Intel Corporation or its subsidiaries in& the United States and other countries.  F             * Other marks and brands may be claimed as the property of others.i            #               More in this categorye#               Corporate Informatione  "               Contact Corporate PR         *      begin 666 spacer.gif= K1TE&.#EA`0`!`( ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````!``$```("1 $`.P``a `  ends  " begin 666 related_links_boxtop.gif= M1TE&.#EAE0`9`,0?```S____S.CHNO^9`,_9__S\_]C8K;6UD?/SPEM]_,7%0= MGOO[R2%/_W:1__VW/A-*];;%_^WQ__W]RJ.V_S]F_XZD_^/H__;VQ(&0LLW-t= MI-_?LRU+VYF&D/W=BOBB'O__S"'Y! $``!\`+ ````"5`!D```7_X/=)G3.<o= M:*JN;.N^<"S/=-U^E^-Q&^#_P*!P2"P:C\BD\H>X+"2!J'1*K5JC`XGNL>QZ>= MO^!P4-!\7L]H;,?#%;O?\+"&?(&F[]2!@Q/O^_]"!AI-=GB&)SU#$Q",C E&e= M$Q1%%))+D4$00I=$F8 ^&7-UAJ,G11$0#:D5!16F#46,71&O0 5"!(]$MIX`u= M"@9D"Z.'`ZY #1$^#(L5##ZS/@F,K0`)! 0-S0`5$)O0C S/M4()S:_;$S^[0= M``RTVQ"58+[ PGBE1.$^$P0`%*<-$ 4D/2-@(14$"P`F1#@ER<*U5=,.5M!7u= M@%8Z(<\*$)CP#QF 70D*/"* "F(8>0B"_]%+8V](!)*,K#4C,$T;PF>=?.R*g= ME7!?,ELA?S"H&$3=CXRY`$209&M"@6Q/?5"HZ06ERI5G6F)$E<HITT:,;#VC3= M0. E@9V=K($5R=.919T87QG->!9=O@*G[,;[E1(K&JU!\ '8^#&5X5>SAL)#i= MZX/D86R+@ C^&)?R4;D3AB;EUZ#L2;Y7_58!+/EM+)(_.BMM0$&=4Q\\)R#\B= MN2XJ-:+B`LLM;3DDA:&YOU@5?87T92#ZUKV$0+#90 O,"2);]6[PJ;*YG%HKD= M^_;CPN\*=Q]7MXI!6481]'9A,)SX:&)@*& ;(C_;CP3SU[$6LI]7LE1B)(!2_= M(>Y)89Q_""88Q-4#&( B@"@%3G&@@A3RPJ "H! 2H83P5>@A+PPD@ &&H!$8 = MX0D:&*" `@>TZ.*+,,8HXXPTUFCCC3CF> ")H82VX0D"I)C!BD06:>212":Ie= MY)),-NGDDQAF( @P)IXX``)!IFC EEQVZ>678(8IYIADEFFFF1K,0>6&>0QP-= M`0)8"B#GG'36:>>=>.:IYYY\]NDG&654^>,`"UQ@*)R()JKHHHPVZNBCD$8Jt= MZ:1-.&$&FVU*H*D$"W3JZ:>@ABKJJ*26:NJIJ**ZJ:"8GH#IJ[#&^NH`(0``j !.P``e `g end    begin 666 bullcream.gif8= M1TE&.#EA!0`*`*(``````/______S/^9`/^E'?_7F__Z\____R'Y! $```<`m) <+ `````%``H```,.*+K<SJ:0$H>5=LQ,)4T`.P``4 `8 end7   begin 666 boxbottom.gif.= M1TE&.#EAE0`&`,0``/__S/^9`/_____YO__RLO^Y3O^Y4/_?J_^E'/^F&O_9s= M?__9@?^Y1__Y[_^L*/^Y3?_?KP``````````````````````````````````l= M`````````````````````````"P`````E0`&```%1F `C&1IGFBJKFSKOG"\s= M$H$HWWBN[[RY&+:><$@LN@8(2-#(;#IQ`T=!L'Q:KUB"(O%H4&O@L'A,+IO/t -Z+1ZS6Z7&0>!/ 0`.P``a `t ends   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:54:03 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e2 Subject: Re: Help with backup needed, in a bind...$ Message-ID: <3b94dd3b$1@news.si.com>   >Booting a TK50 takes a while.  D Though not as much time as booting a TU58 on a VAX-11/725!  Making a/ bootable TU58 with STABACKIT takes even longer!e --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventb< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:49:59 -0500-- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r- Subject: Re: Help with java server OpenVMS... 3 Message-ID: <dwWgEhlAVcAR@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  r In article <D94B7AA731337DB3.46D48A11D2AC8ED7.9AADD2232CFB54A2@lp.airnews.net>, Kuff@Tessco.Com (Hal Kuff) writes:G >     We would like a remote java application to instantiate an OpenVMS I > process and run an image passing up to 4096 bytes to the image ... that:J > program will open some files and access a database, then send back up to > 4096 bytes...= > M >     There's BEA, Attunity, Connx, something called Concerto from Xology....c@ > Anyone doing this with these tools or others in the field now? >   B    W're doing similar with raw TCP/IP sockets.  The JRE provides a! Socket class and related classes.i   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 06:48:53 -07008! From: bmollo@my-deja.com (bmollo) , Subject: Heroix Robomon FILE_IO_LOAD error??< Message-ID: <8fe5937.0109040548.68676362@posting.google.com>   Hello,  F I'm playing with the Robomon Enterprise Management monitoring softwareD and have stumbled upon an error that not even Heroix corp can figureE out.  I seem to be having a very large FILE_IO_LOAD error/warning andd) is reported in the Robomon Event Monitor.i  C Now, I'm running Robomon on a Win2k machine with 256MB RAM and duel0E 400Mhz CPUs with a 4GB HD.  We have tried this product on a number ofcC different machines and still come up with the same errors/warnings.p  F I know of one sure way to by pass this warning but I would rather not.3  It's done by setting the Max File I/O Rate higher.P  D Also, to verify that I've been recieving high IO rates I checked theC Performance application that comes with win2k and using the counter 7 for "Data File Operations/sec" to monitor the IO rates.l  F If anyone has any comments or solutions it would be much appericated!  Please, Email with any tips! Thanks,0 -B.o   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:48:10 -05009- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c2 Subject: Re: How to install Adobe Acrobat Viewer ?3 Message-ID: <FC0aPPd9djIT@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  E In article <3B908B5E.50209@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:eI > I am trying to install the Acrobat Viewer following the instructions on9 > D > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/pdf_viewer.html > K > However this page is a bit out of date, because it references to a older a > version of Java. >    This works for me with 1.3.0:t   $define classpath -fD   "/disk/dir/subdir/acrobat.jar:/disk/dir/subdir/MRJTookitStubs.zip"0 $java -mx32m "com.adobe.acrobat.Viewer" filename  E The MRJToolkitStubs.zip is available from Apple.  I don't know what'se triggering the call to it.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:04:23 +0200  From: "Pete" <pete@ipartners.pl> Subject: HP + Compaq- Message-ID: <9n28va$hli$1@news2.ipartners.pl>C  L http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&d@ ist=yhoo&guid=%7BBD3A0D20%2D4F38%2D4454%2DB8CB%2DD13FE927677B%7D   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: HP + Compaq = Compaq - DECo@ Message-ID: <20010904162427.37993.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  
 Just imagine:e  . The Federal Regulators decide to permit the=20- merging of HP and Compaq , with the condition,3 of Compaq, dissociate the Alpha related business...n" And it becoming Digital again !=20   Wake up F=E1bio !=20   RegardsY           =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DEL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DT F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilE fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:33:25 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: HP + Compaq = How about Oracle ?1@ Message-ID: <20010904173325.84724.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   How about Oracle ?=20-  + I would like to read something from Oracle.1, To know how will be the relationship between
 them and HPQ.>  % What about IBM's Informix+DB2 merge ?I  2 Is there a ORacle for MPE ? Like Oracle RDB (small0 number of customers) ? Why not port MPE users to	 OpenVMS ?    Hmm... to early to suppose!=20       =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DEL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DS F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DT  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com;   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:23:31 -0400;) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com>e Subject: HP and Compaq merging* Message-ID: <3B949D93.9020608@townisp.com>  < The morning news just stated that HP and Compaq are merging.  ? Does anyone know details on this and what it will mean for VMS?o   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:48:01 -0500d- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s" Subject: Re: HP and Compaq merging3 Message-ID: <FoLgmpbVVyYs@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  V In article <3B949D93.9020608@townisp.com>, Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com> writes:> > The morning news just stated that HP and Compaq are merging. > A > Does anyone know details on this and what it will mean for VMS?1  ? Well, those people who read before writing know what is written-- in the many _other_ threads on this topic :-):   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:46:27 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>" Subject: Re: HP and Compaq merging@ Message-ID: <20010904114627.83105.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  4 There is no information regarding any interest of HP3 in OpenVMS,  just the larger (???) customer base ofn Compaq/DEC.U  8 The 450.000 ghost systems and 10 milion ghost users !=20   Regards    FC=20t    . --- Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com> wrote:5 > The morning news just stated that HP and Compaq areq
 > merging. >=203 > Does anyone know details on this and what it willa > mean for VMS?n >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DnL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dj F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:15:33 +01001% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i Subject: Re: HP buying Compaq?8 Message-ID: <g5h9ptoqc3jamub0b7jt2ifk9dr4edeuq2@4ax.com>  D On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:51:49 +0100, ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> wrote:     >iZ >As someone else mentioned in another group, HP may have wanted access to Alpha technologyW >as backup in case IA64 is late or (more likely) is underwhelming in performance terms.m  E I think you're just being silly now. You are suggesting that HP wantspD the Alpha technology in case the McKinley HP designed IA64 flops butA allowed Compaq to transfer all the engineers to Intel first. ComeoD on!!!  Capellas admits in a memo to staff that the takeover has beenA actively discussed for thee months and that some contact has beena/ maintained between HP and Compaq for 18 months.h  [ >It's not just the chip itself that has to be ready. It has to be designed into systems andsW >all the OS's, development tools etc need to to be ready and fully debugged for IA64 astZ >well before they can start selling boxes. Why reinvent the wheel, when all this is ready,X >available and reliable for Alpha, with years of development and experience behind it ?.T >Wouldn't surprise me at all if Alpha arises from the ashes in some form or another.   Keep taking the medicine...      >-= >It's been quite a morning, for earthshaking tech news ;-)...  >l >Chris   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:59:53 +0100a& From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> Subject: Re: HP buying Compaq?- Message-ID: <3B94D049.CE550AE5@aerosys.co.uk>t   Alan Greig wrote:c > F > On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:51:49 +0100, ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> > wrote: >  > >r\ > >As someone else mentioned in another group, HP may have wanted access to Alpha technologyY > >as backup in case IA64 is late or (more likely) is underwhelming in performance terms.r > G > I think you're just being silly now. You are suggesting that HP wantsnF > the Alpha technology in case the McKinley HP designed IA64 flops butC > allowed Compaq to transfer all the engineers to Intel first. Come F > on!!!  Capellas admits in a memo to staff that the takeover has beenC > actively discussed for thee months and that some contact has beenm1 > maintained between HP and Compaq for 18 months.D  U Trouble with all this type thread is that it degenerates into self abuse and wishfull W thinking and I suppose i'm as guilty as anyone else. Still haven't got over the killing X off of Alpha, nor the breakup of Dec, for that matter. There are few high tech companiesY that I have an all round respect for any more and losing even one of the remaining few isn unpalatable.   > ] > >It's not just the chip itself that has to be ready. It has to be designed into systems andnY > >all the OS's, development tools etc need to to be ready and fully debugged for IA64 as.\ > >well before they can start selling boxes. Why reinvent the wheel, when all this is ready,Z > >available and reliable for Alpha, with years of development and experience behind it ?.V > >Wouldn't surprise me at all if Alpha arises from the ashes in some form or another. >  > Keep taking the medicine...C >   V What medicine is that Alan ?. After the news of the past couple of months, believe me, _anything_ is possible...>   Chrisn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:02:56 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t Subject: Re: HP buying Compaq?8 Message-ID: <1ln9pt41cgt95la86rdhm4ui5jfkt89etf@4ax.com>  D On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:59:53 +0100, ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote:   >> Keep taking the medicine... >> o >EW >What medicine is that Alan ?. After the news of the past couple of months, believe me,s >_anything_ is possible...  D I should have put a smiley there I guess. I know anything's possible3 given recent events but *likely*. I don't think so.e   >  >Chris   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:45:03 +0100i& From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> Subject: Re: HP buying Compaq?- Message-ID: <3B94E8EF.345CDB23@aerosys.co.uk>e   Alan Greig wrote:  > F > On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:59:53 +0100, ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> > wrote: >  > >Alan Greig wrote: >   > >> Keep taking the medicine... > >> > >cY > >What medicine is that Alan ?. After the news of the past couple of months, believe me,a > >_anything_ is possible... > F > I should have put a smiley there I guess. I know anything's possible5 > given recent events but *likely*. I don't think so.7 >  >  > -- > Alan  X Well, as it's that sort of day, how about a bit more speculation ?. Since Intel now holdW all the cards (Working, debugged Alpha and vapourware IA64), if IA64 is late or doesn't S cut the mustard, they could in theory and in collaboration with Microsoft and Hpaq,sZ release Win2000 on Alpha with a whole raft of applications. Remember that there is Windows on Alpha already.m  V Where this leaves Tru64 and VMS is anybody's guess. Nowhere long term I would think...   Chrisl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:52:28 +01007+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>  Subject: Re: HP buying Compaq?' Message-ID: <3B94F8BC.88DB37E5@iee.org>v  
 ChrisQ wrote:n/ > Where this leaves Tru64 and VMS is anybody's d+ > guess. Nowhere long term I would think...p  ' True. I merely observe that HP already  $ have their own Unix (HP-UX). I don't& know whether MPE and VMS would be seen# as competitors or as complementary.i   Time will tell.9   Antonioi   -- e   ---------------w- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:16:48 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: HP buying Compaq?* Message-ID: <3B950C80.AA900E70@virgin.net>   "antonio.carlini" wrote:   > ChrisQ wrote:e0 > > Where this leaves Tru64 and VMS is anybody's- > > guess. Nowhere long term I would think...a >l( > True. I merely observe that HP already& > have their own Unix (HP-UX). I don't( > know whether MPE and VMS would be seen% > as competitors or as complementary.e >i  F And as we run ManMan and that runs on only two platforms - MPE and VMSE - I find that a very interesting question right now. Especially as we.D are considering moving our few remaining MPE ManMan sites to VMS. Or were...s   >i > Time will tell.d >a	 > Antonioe >o > -- >  > ---------------e/ > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:08:50 -04002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>8 Subject: HP press release on merger between Compaq an HP3 Message-ID: <Ju3l7.1166$bB1.47356@news.cpqcorp.net>e  F HEWLETT-PACKARD AND COMPAQ AGREE TO MERGE, CREATING $87 BILLION GLOBAL TECHNOLOGY LEADER7E Will Offer Businesses And Consumers Most Complete Set Of Products And_; Services, With Commitment To Open Systems And Architectures:  L Will Have #1 Worldwide Positions In Servers, PCs and Hand-helds, and ImagingL and Printing; Leading Positions In IT Services, Storage, Management Software  E Companies Expect Annual Cost Synergies Of Approximately $2.5 Billion;$> Transaction Expected To Be Substantially Accretive In Year One0 PALO ALTO, CA and HOUSTON, TX, September 3, 2001    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  J Hewlett-Packard Company (NYSE: HWP) and Compaq Computer Corporation (NYSE:K CPQ) announced today a definitive merger agreement to create an $87 billionDL global technology leader. The new HP will offer the industry's most completeI set of IT products and services for both businesses and consumers, with aHH commitment to serving customers with open systems and architectures. TheL combined company will have #1 worldwide revenue positions in servers, accessI devices (PCs and hand-helds) and imaging and printing, as well as leadingHB revenue positions in IT services, storage and management software.  H The merger is expected to generate cost synergies reaching approximatelyH $2.5 billion annually and drive a significantly improved cost structure.G Based on both companies' last four reported fiscal quarters, the new HPJL would have approximate pro forma assets of $56.4 billion, annual revenues ofJ $87.4 billion and annual operating earnings of $3.9 billion. It would alsoF have operations in more than 160 countries and over 145,000 employees.  K Carly Fiorina, chairman and chief executive officer of HP, will be chairman3E and CEO of the new HP. Michael Capellas, chairman and chief executiveuH officer of Compaq, will be president. Capellas and four other members ofF Compaq's current Board of Directors will join HP's Board upon closing.  J "This is a decisive move that accelerates our strategy and positions us toG win by offering even greater value to our customers and partners," said_F Fiorina. "In addition to the clear strategic benefits of combining twoF highly complementary organizations and product families, we can createL substantial shareowner value through significant cost structure improvementsJ and access to new growth opportunities. At a particularly challenging timeK for the IT industry, this combination vaults us into a leadership role withbJ customers and partners -- together we will shape the industry for years to come."  L Capellas said, "We are creating a new kind of industry leader -- one foundedL on customer success, world-class engineering, and best of breed products andK services. In sharp contrast to our competitors, we are committed to leading I the industry to open, market-unifying architectures and interoperability,lK which reduce complexity and cost for our customers. With this move, we will=1 change the basis of competition in the industry."   H Under the terms of the agreement, unanimously approved by both Boards ofL Directors, Compaq shareowners will receive 0.6325 of a newly issued HP shareL for each share of Compaq, giving the merger a current value of approximatelyA $25 billion. HP shareowners will own approximately 64% and CompaqaL shareowners 36% of the merged company. The transaction, which is expected toH be tax-free to shareowners of both companies for U.S. federal income tax. purposes, will be accounted for as a purchase.  K The transaction is expected to be substantially accretive to HP's pro formauI earnings per share in the first full year of combined operations based onpF achieving planned cost synergies. Cost synergies of approximately $2.0D billion are expected in fiscal 2003, the first full year of combinedH operations. Fully realized synergies are expected to reach a run rate ofJ approximately $2.5 billion by mid-fiscal 2004. These anticipated synergiesD result from product rationalization; efficiencies in administration,J procurement, manufacturing and marketing; and savings from improved directE distribution of PCs and servers. Subject to regulatory and shareownerhJ approvals and customary closing conditions, the transaction is expected toI close in the first half of 2002. In connection with the transaction, both J companies have adopted shareowner rights plans; information on these plans@ will be filed today with the Securities and Exchange Commission.  A The merged entity will be headquartered in Palo Alto and retain asH significant presence in Houston, which will be a key strategic center of/ engineering excellence and product development.   K The new HP will be structured around four operating units that build on the E companies' similar go-to-market and product development structures to F provide clear customer and competitive focus. Leadership and estimatedK revenues (calculated by combining the two companies' trailing four reportedl  fiscal quarters) are as follows:    G   a.. A $20 billion Imaging and Printing franchise to be led by Vyomesha@ Joshi, currently president, Imaging and Printing Systems, of HP.G   b.. A $29 billion Access Devices business to be led by Duane Zitzner,-. currently president, Computing Systems, of HP.E   c.. A $23 billion IT Infrastructure business, encompassing servers,-L storage and software, to be led by Peter Blackmore, currently executive vice) president, Sales and Services, of Compaq.sL   d.. A $15 billion Services business with approximately 65,000 employees inI consulting, support and outsourcing to be led by Ann Livermore, currentlyi president, HP Services.hI The chief financial officer of the combined entity will be Robert Wayman,2G chief financial officer of HP. The integration team will be led by WebbeI McKinney, currently president of HP's Business Customer Organization, andt/ Jeff Clarke, chief financial officer of Compaq.i  A Fiorina concluded, "Clearly, the potential of this combination is I compelling, but we understand the magnitude of the challenge and the needDK for discipline and speed. We're helped by the fact that both companies havepK been pursuing similar organizational structures and sales force models, and=D there is immense talent resident in both organizations. We have doneF comprehensive integration planning and have clear metrics to drive ourG success. We are committed to achieving the synergies we have identified L while maintaining our competitive position and momentum in the marketplace."  0 Investment Community and Media Event Information  G The companies will host a meeting for the investment community Tuesday,1F Sept. 4, at 9 a.m. EDT at the Equitable Building in New York City, 787L Seventh Avenue (between 51st & 52nd streets) in the Auditorium, Lower Level.I Those unable to attend may listen by calling (888) 849-9184 (US) or (212)fK 896-6074 (international), using reservation number: 19649821. The event canbJ also be accessed via audiocast at www.hp.com or www.compaq.com. The slidesI used for this presentation will be available on each company's website 10DJ minutes prior to the start of the event. A replay will be available for 14C days following the meeting at (800) 633-8284 (US) or (858) 812-6440oI (international), using reservation number: 19649821. There will also be a=I question and answer session for the media at 10:30 a.m. EDT following theYI analyst meeting, also in the Equitable Auditorium. Those unable to attende@ may participate by calling (888) 754-3420 (US) or (212) 676-5416J (international), using reservation number: 19650338. The event can also beH accessed via audiocast at www.hp.com or www.compaq.com. A replay will beK available for 14 days following the meeting at (800) 633-8284 (US) or (858) = 812-6440 (international), using reservation number: 19650338.S  
 Fact Sheet  E A fact sheet related to the merger is attached to this press release.e    Calculation of Combined Revenues  I The statements of combined revenues in this release and the attached factrG sheet are estimates and have been calculated by adding similar categorybD information from the companies' separate filings with the SecuritiesL Exchange Commission for each of their past four fiscal quarters. Because theI companies have different fiscal year-ends, these estimates do not track atJ matching time period. The measurement method described above may result inG amounts that differ from amounts resulting from other methodologies thed  companies may use in the future.   About HP  E Hewlett-Packard Company -- a leading global provider of computing andiI imaging solutions and services -- is focused on making technology and itseK benefits accessible to all. HP had total revenue from continuing operationshF of $48.8 billion in its 2000 fiscal year. Information about HP and its: products can be found on the World Wide Web at www.hp.com.   About Compaq  F Compaq Computer Corporation is a leading global provider of enterpriseL technology and solutions. Compaq designs, develops, manufactures and marketsF hardware, software, solutions and services, including industry-leadingL enterprise storage and computing solutions, fault-tolerant business-criticalD solutions, communication products, and desktop and portable personalI computers that are sold in more than 200 countries. Information on Compaq_= and its products and services is available at www.compaq.com.b  + Additional Information and Where to Find Ite  J HP intends to file a registration statement on Form S-4 in connection with? the transaction, and HP and Compaq intend to mail a joint proxy L statement/prospectus to their respective stockholders in connection with theI transaction. Investors and security holders of HP and Compaq are urged to.K read the joint proxy statement/prospectus when it becomes available becauseaK it will contain important information about HP, Compaq and the transaction.eH Investors and security holders may obtain a free copy of the joint proxyD statement/prospectus (when it is available) at the SEC's web site atL www.sec.gov. A free copy of the joint proxy statement/prospectus may also beK obtained from HP or Compaq. HP and its executive officers and directors maytD be deemed to be participants in the solicitation of proxies from theF stockholders of HP and Compaq in favor of the transaction. InformationI regarding the interests of HP's officers and directors in the transaction H will be included in the joint proxy statement/prospectus. Compaq and itsH executive officers and directors may be deemed to be participants in theJ solicitation of proxies from the stockholders of HP and Compaq in favor ofI the transaction. Information regarding the interests of Compaq's officers D and directors in the transaction will be included in the joint proxyK statement/prospectus. In addition to the registration statement on form S-4rI to be filed by HP in connection with the transaction, and the joint proxy-I statement/prospectus to be mailed to the stockholders of HP and Compaq iniC connection with the transaction, each of HP and Compaq file annual,-J quarterly and special reports, proxy and information statements, and otherK information with the SEC. Investors may read and copy any of these reports, L statements and other information at the SEC's public reference rooms locatedK at 450 5th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., 20549, or any of the SEC's othereH public reference rooms located in New York and Chicago. Investors shouldF call the SEC at 1-800-SEC-0330 for further information on these publicJ reference rooms. The reports, statements and other information filed by HPL and Compaq with the SEC are also available for free at the SEC's web site atK www.sec.gov. A free copy of these reports, statements and other informationc' may also be obtained from HP or Compaq.      HP/COMPAQ FACT SHEET Transaction Summary:  '       Structure: Stock-for-stock merger   =       Exchange Ratio:  0.6325 of an HP share per Compaq share   /       Current Value:  Approximately $25 billionf  >       Ownership:  HP shareholders 64%; Compaq shareholders 36%         Accounting:  Purchasev  +       Expected Closing:  First half of 2002e      	 Overview:m    J   a.. Creates an $87 billion global technology leader, with the industry'sE most complete set of IT products and services for both businesses andv
 consumers.J   b.. New HP would be the #1 global player in servers, imaging & printing,D and access devices (PCs & hand-helds), as well as Top 3 player in IT* services, storage and management software.A   c.. The combination furthers each company's commitment to open, K market-unifying systems and architectures and aggressive direct and channel  distribution models.F   d.. Combined company can create substantial shareowner value through@ significant cost structure improvements and access to new growth opportunities.L   e.. Transaction expected to be substantially accretive to pro forma EPS in' first full year of combined operations.HH   f.. The merger is expected to generate cost synergies of approximatelyE $2.0 billion in fiscal 2003, the first full year of operations; fully>I realized synergies are expected to reach a run rate of approximately $2.5  billion by mid-fiscal 2004..F   g.. New HP would have operations in more than 160 countries and over 145,000 employees.       Key Facts 1       (last 4 qtrs): HP Compaq Pro Forma Combinedi         Totalt;       Revenues  $47.0 billion  $40.4 billion  $87.4 billion 9       Assets  $32.4 billion  $23.9 billion  $56.4 billion1       Operatingr8       Earnings  $2.1 billion  $1.9 billion  $3.9 billion     Leadership:g    =   a.. Board of Directors: 5 Compaq directors to join HP Board 9   b.. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer: Carly Fiorinao!   c.. President: Michael Capellasr,   d.. Chief Financial Officer: Robert Wayman'   e.. Imaging & Printing: Vyomesh JoshiA#   f.. Access Devices: Duane Zitznerp(   g.. IT Infrastructure: Peter Blackmore   h.. Services: Ann Livermoreh    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 00:59:39 -0500t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <e9ugnhdc$kzR@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <3B946933.59EB9D89@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:S >> > 3) A really "fun" Encompass convention!  Is there enough time to explain this?a >   = 	Nit... I didn't pen the above but the cut and paste makes itr 	look like I did.    			Rob   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 06:21:16 GMT2. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)D Message-ID: <wp_k7.7284$IP6.540792@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:6l$g15makwrE@eisner.encompasserve.org...a; > In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoile <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:B > > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive? > C > The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Havingr* > too many of those is counter-productive. >u OS/400, OS/390, Linux, Windows   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 06:20:34 GMTe* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)+ Message-ID: <3B9472F0.5FF925F3@prodigy.net>s  O Cute.  But how compact will it become to achieve the cost savings they project?    "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote:  > J > I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be$ > renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-) >  > > -----Original Message-----< > > From: leslie@clio.rice.edu [mailto:leslie@clio.rice.edu]) > > Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2001 14:24d > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComM2 > > Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail) > >e > > 2 > > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: > > :  > > : Is this for real ? > > :. > > 
 > > Yes... > > : > >   http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htm; > >   HP Press Release: Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Agree too > > Merge, Creating * > >   $87 Billion Global Technology Leader > >D > > --Jerry Leslie > >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:41:07 +0200< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)4 Message-ID: <9n1t21$4mupi$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>  
 Bill wrote...v, >"Jerry Hudgins" <jerry@e-farm.com> wrote... >> JF Mezei wrote: >> > Is this for real ?  >># >> Appears to be.  The NYT link is:m >>; >> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.htmlm >l >Or from the horse's mouth:  >e5 >http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htmT  ! And now also on the Compaq pages:0  8 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001090402.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 02:57:07 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)' Message-ID: <9n1tue$b4$1@pyrite.mv.net>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B944B67.9B9D84A0@videotron.ca...   ...e   > Will Winkler get the shaft ?  H Don't bet on it:  the NYT article says Capellas will be President of theG merged entity, so it sounds as if HP is buying into Compaq's managementeJ competence (for what reason God only knows).  The only other Compaq honchoD mentioned explicitly was Pete Blackmore - but if Capellas was deemed5 acceptable, then I don't see why Winkler wouldn't be.p   >a* > HP-UX vs Tru64 will be most interesting.  J I'm betting on HP/UX, mostly because my guess is that the bottom will dropL out of the Tru64 market now (due to even more uncertainty) even if it hadn't" already (due to the Alpha fiasco).  K Also, if Tru64 has indeed already given most of its goodies to Linux, thereeH just isn't much to differentiate it any more - and while the same may beG true for HP/UX, at least it already presumably runs on the hardware the I combined corporation sees as important for the future, so if it can avoid K the cost of porting Tru64 (even though that cost may not be very large) andr& 'consolidate' in the process, why not?   >uJ > Will Carly see VMS as diffentiator worth pushing, or will it continue to be > ignored/tolerated ?r  K If I had to bet, I'd say neither.  At least the statement NYT attributes totL her ("This is a decisive move that accelerates our strategy and positions usG to win") is worthy of Capellas in its vacuity, and the little I've beenlD aware of her performance over the past couple of years hasn't seemed impressive.u  L I hope I'm wrong (and know far less about HP than I do about Compaq), but atI first glance this appears to be a marriage of two incompetents.  I'd haverK said HP was only faltering (not out-right incompetent) until today, but theeJ combination of purchasing Compaq at well over its market cap and retainingJ Compaq's management suggests that HP may be as clueless and floundering as
 Compaq is.  I If so, expect VMS to wither sooner rather than later:  after all, if thisyL has been in the works for months, then HP certainly had advance knowledge ofI the Alphacide and would have scarcely allowed it had it considered VMS ann important asset.   ...   J > This will prove a more interesting merger on a worlwide basis since bothG > Digital and HP have worldwide presence. When Compaq acquired Digital,a CompaqF > didn't really have to close significant offices/facilities worldwide becausehE > it didn't have much outside the USA. But now, both have significanteK > sales/operations in many countries, so a lot of combining and eliminationw of > duplication becomes possible.a  C Yes, but it raises the question of what *new* assets HP thinks it'snI acquiring for its $25 billion that it didn't have already.  Certainly notnC Alpha (which it clearly didn't want - and probably was happy to get G something from Intel for that Intel might not have readily given to itsiL already-existing IA64 partner), probably not the Alpha customer base (unlessL HP is as clueless as Compaq about the likelihood of retaining most of it forI any significant period of time), probably not Compaq's PC business eitherrH (if Compaq couldn't turn a profit with it, why would HP feel better ableJ to?), and Compaq's service business isn't in great enough shape to commandL that kind of money.  That leaves StorageWorks as the only obvious plum - butH not a large enough plum to account for more than a few $billion at most.  G The HP work environment always used to be much more compatible with thedG traditional DEC work environment than the Compaq environment was, but I K don't know if that's still true today.  Other than that, what's the up-sidedJ here?  I'm not asserting that there isn't one, but the "*Anything* must beL better than Compaq!" argument won't fly with Compaq management still sharing9 the helm - and other benefits aren't immediately obvious.n  J Later:  Just read the WSJ and CNN articles, and note that they're about asH pessimistic as I was above (and for similar reasons).  The WSJ statementL "Ms. Fiorina was a star saleswoman at Lucent when she was tapped to run H-P"E is hardly reassuring in an industry where a real understanding of theiH underlying technology and how customers depend upon it is still vital to= success - especially during a down-turn like the current one.   I HP's own press release mostly stresses the improved cost structure of thedI combined entity - seemingly buying into the Compaq philosopy that all oneeG has to do is cut costs, rather than actually figure out how to generatekJ business, and starting with 'product rationalization', i.e., consolidationD (good luck VMS).  And then Carly joined Capellas in some airhead-CEO? statements lacking any obvious foundation in objective reality.r  G Not reassuring at all - even before allowing for the mess that the meretG process of merging would cause even if the participants were healthy to. start with.i   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 03:15:03 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>f. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)' Message-ID: <9n1v02$t5$1@pyrite.mv.net>a  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:flkPhONOge+S@eisner.encompasserve.org...eG > In article <9n1j3e$2kv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, vance@alumni.caltech.edui (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:   ...e  I > 1) The announcement of the phase out of Tru64 UNIX and no port to IA-64  >hD > NO!  A nice roadmap showing where HP/UX comes together with Tru64.  C And very likely in no material way differing from the statement youe5 responded to (so the "NO!" isn't really appropriate).n   >m> > > 2) An acceleration of the timeline for the demise of Alpha >tC > No.  Customer assurances.  You'd see hopping mad CIOs and whatnotc2 > raging for months on end if they drop that ball!  L Yes.  Compaq obviously did the honorable thing and took the heat of droppingK Alpha before the acquisition so that the new merged entity wouldn't have tolG later (when the defunct 'Compaq' name could be assigned all the blame).v  A I had doubts that *Compaq* wanted to expose McKinley to the nastytJ comparisons that EV7 seems likely to raise:  do you really believe that HPL will?  At a minimum, expect EV7 to be delayed until a shrunk, cache-expandedK Madison improves IA64 performance enough to be slightly less than laughable0L in comparison (something Compaq already appeared to be working on, given the4 continuing stretch in published EV7 delivery dates).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 03:56:50 -0400- From: "Jerry Eckert" <JAEckert@bellsouth.net> . Subject: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <006001c13517$280942a0$f9c1b5d8@SYST01>n  & Hewlett-Paqital has a nice ring to it.   -----Original Message-----? From: Barratt, Chris (FMC) [mailto:Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au]o) Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 1:44 AMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt. Subject: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)    H I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be" renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 07:59:02 GMTh+ From: rsmith@arel.com.in-au-domain (rsmith)e. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail). Message-ID: <9n21k6$2a$1@thebe.syd.dav.net.au>  , Official announcement from the HP website...  4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htm   Russell Smith. Arel Asia Pacifict   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:02:58 +0200d< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)( Message-ID: <3B948AB2.1A028DE3@home.com>  , "HP" + "Compaq" = "FC"  ("Fiorina-Capellas")   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:17:32 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)8 Message-ID: <jq29ptsgmnlausgkgu8qqqluq8j0bo0vp1@4ax.com>  , On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:33:21 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:p   >mO >However, this time, I continue to consider VMS to be dying, until HP proves itt6 >will really push VMS. Pointless to raise false hopes.  F The former head of Compaq UK (left 4 weeks ago) was interviewed on theD BBC this morning. He described it as a very sad day for someone suchD as him who had been with Compaq almost since day 1. Interestingly heE said that HP were interested in the "mainframe technology that Compaq E bought from Tandem" and in manufacturing Wintel PCs more economicallym< using their combined might. No mention of ex-DEC technology.  C Interview should be online later today (www.bbc.co.uk/today) replay = latest "Today" program from 1hr 50mins for next ten minutes, t  * Oh, 25,0000 job losses reported as well...  @ Hey, DECUS needs to find another new name now. Can I suggest theB Microsoft Users Group (or MUG) so that we don't have to go through@ another couple of intermediate name changes before we get there? -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:50:21 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>p. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail): Message-ID: <kw0l7.8272$A24.1628154@news20.bellglobal.com>  8 "rsmith" <rsmith@arel.com.in-au-domain> wrote in message( news:9n21k6$2a$1@thebe.syd.dav.net.au... >n. > Official announcement from the HP website... >h6 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htm >C > Russell Smith. > Arel Asia Pacificr >i  / Wow. Here we go again. Digital -> Compaq -> HP!r  L My employer had a brain damaged policy of only buying from HP or SUN. So letI me get this straight; the way to open doors is for a little Company to bep taken over by a larger one?i  G And does this news item qualify for Capellas' statement that "you won'taD recognize Compaq in 180 days"? Will Mike Magee have to take down his9 Capellas Countdown Clock ( http://www.theinquirer.net/ ).p  J If being Caesar is like holding a wolf by the ears, then Capellas may haveJ found the only way to let go of the wolf would be to pass it over to Carly :-)   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,k Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:27:03 +0100,% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)8 Message-ID: <ar39ptsknksgdtr7updpiupk0oaihc1iue@4ax.com>  C On 3 Sep 2001 23:16:50 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e wrote:  D >	NO!  A nice roadmap showing where HP/UX comes together with Tru64.  B Rob, would you please stop talking about roadmaps as if they had aE lifetime of more than a few weeks. I'd have thought even you wouldn'tmD have had the guts to point at yet another changed roadmap right now.   >t= >> 2) An acceleration of the timeline for the demise of Alpha  >.C >	No.  Customer assurances.  You'd see hopping mad CIOs and whatnoto2 >	raging for months on end if they drop that ball! >MQ >> 3) A really "fun" Encompass convention!  Is there enough time to explain this?  > @ >	Now, that is a good point!  Enough time to explain it?  Sure!! >uB >	Do you think they got together the first time this past weekend?D >	Rumors of this merger have been flying around for quite some time.; >	Compaq "obviously" took steps recently to make it happen.i  B Yes, they took the step of being totally incompetent and unable to* survive on their own. That made it happen.   >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 05:07:44 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>s. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail): Message-ID: <DM0l7.8273$A24.1632210@news20.bellglobal.com>  = Hey here's a thought; will Carly revive PA-RISC or Alpha EV8?aK I always found her a little skeptical of the relationship with Intel (whichi she inherited)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,t Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:59:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail), Message-ID: <3B94A605.5F0653C7@videotron.ca>   "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote: J > I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be$ > renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)  ' Hewlett-Packard-Tandem-Digital  (HPTD).y  2 "Compaq" brings nothing to HP that HP didn't have.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:59:19 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"). Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)8 Message-ID: <00A01876.0E16620E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  X In article <3B9451F3.A6EE0112@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes: >Rob Young wrote:  >>  [ >> In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:rC >> > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive?a >> > >> eL >>         The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Having3 >>         too many of those is counter-productive.a >> e& >>                                 Rob >- >... or maybe just Windows.-   I don't believe it.-  @ I have no inside information whatsoever, but here's my thinking:  K What does HP want with Compaq?  It doesn't need another company that can't :G build PCs profitably; it doesn't need another services organization; iteJ probably doesn't need the iPAQ when it has the Jornada.  I think what it  M wants is the enterprise customers (and the expertise) that came with Compaq'suC purchases of Tandem and Digital.  [I suppose it could want Proliant J servers; I haven't heard much about HP's offerings in that space, but thatL doesn't seem like it's enough to spend multiple millions on when they could K have probably licensed Proliants and rebadged them if they wanted to.]  TheHJ only value I can see in there - especially now that Alpha is gone - is the enterprise stuff.n  H (Much of that expertise is gone, but Compaq hasn't screwed up the TandemN customers much and has grown the VMS customer base a little.  Tru64 developers+ can either go away or join the HP/UX team.)w  J HP has more of a clue about being an enterprise vendor, and maybe they canK put Compaq's assets to good use.  I simply don't believe that they're naive K enough to think - as the companies that merged and became Unisys did - that-G they'd keep all their revenue and stay as big as the two companies werem separately.i  J So this might, possibly, if we're lucky, turn out to be good news.  PlentyD of room for internal politics to screw things up, plenty of room forJ ill-advised cost-cutting, but it might work out (especially if HP sees the revenue figures for VMS).   F I note that CNN says Capellas becomes President of the merged company,G although Fiorina is CEO.  I don't know what that means in the long run,m/ or if either one will be there in the long run.d   -- Alant  O ===============================================================================:0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056lM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210sO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 06:13:58 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail), Message-ID: <3B94A94C.573881BC@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:E > Yes, but it raises the question of what *new* assets HP thinks it's5= > acquiring for its $25 billion that it didn't have already. @    H In terms of the wintel business, I think that *IF* they can combine bothI businesses, there should be synergies in terms of volumes (less costly tocM build, better negotiating power with vendors), they will also be #1 in PCs sohJ from a marketing point of view, they will have an edge over Dell, and HP,sW better distribution for retail sales will be helped by ever greater volume of machines.-  M *IF* they can lower the fixed costs per unit, lower the parts costs, assemblyaL and distribution costs , then their PC business will be more cost productiveB (not sure if we shoudl say profitable or less of a money loser !).  N On the other hand, internal wars and all the uncertaintly may make this happenH during the integration way too far into the future and that far into the5 future, who knows what the PC business will be like ?g    J HP gets from Tandem the high profile customers and NSK technology. It getsI clustering and the VMS engineers, it also gets stuff such as the all-in-1pL engineers (are there any left ?) which may help HP rebuilt an office packageE to rival MS Office. (justy one example, apply to each layered producto Digital/Tandem had). s  L Mostly though, I think that the real value is the customers. Those customersH that were about to dump Compaq because of the Alpha murder were probablyK heading to HP, the next best "enterprise" company after Compaq. This may intM fact be good news to Sun and IBM if HP doesn't hanle VMS and Tru64 and Tandem L with tender loving care because all 3 have a major port to IA64 coming (with0 VMS and Tru64 further hirt by the Alpha murder).      F > (good luck VMS).  And then Carly joined Capellas in some airhead-CEOA > statements lacking any obvious foundation in objective reality.e  L Capellas s downgraded to President. He may be offered some CEOship somewhereM else and leave HP pretty soon. Besides, as an accountant, perhaps "president"t) is closer to his peter's principle level.a   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:29:24 -0500l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <f6F1b+WLMBmk@eisner.encompasserve.org>(  X In article <3B9451F3.A6EE0112@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> t[ >> In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:eC >> > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive?t >> > >> pL >>         The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Having3 >>         too many of those is counter-productive.n >> r& >>                                 Rob >  > ... or maybe just Windows.  D I don't think Rob meant those that are making money _for_Microsoft_.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:32:34 -0500l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) . Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <nKRFihGyLz63@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <kw0l7.8272$A24.1628154@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  I > And does this news item qualify for Capellas' statement that "you won'ttF > recognize Compaq in 180 days"? Will Mike Magee have to take down his; > Capellas Countdown Clock ( http://www.theinquirer.net/ ).s  C He should, since the thing never has worked from a secured browser.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 11:35:56 +0100y/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> . Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)6 Message-ID: <00A018BE.39D74BE5.7@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   > >eE > > The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Having , > > too many of those is counter-productive. > >o  > OS/400, OS/390, Linux, Windows >    VMS?  % Don't write VMS's obituary just yet. w  L Though it's very much a hostage caught up in what I suspect will soon becomeH a very bloody civil war in the CHomPhaq executive suites. A good outcomeA requires that HP management come out on top, that they recognise rE what  they've got in VMS (which Compaq singularly failed to do), and oG that they are capable of managing multiple overlapping solutions (like  7 IBM clearly can, and neither Digital nor Compaq could).s   	Yours,o
 		Nigel Arnotn- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   r  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."t   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 03:29:26 -0700i8 From: babiarz at endor .com <babiarz_member@newsguy.com>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)) Message-ID: <9n2ae602i1e@drn.newsguy.com>s  7 In article <3B94A605.5F0653C7@videotron.ca>, JF says...e >t >"Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote:K >> I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it bed% >> renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)i >n( >Hewlett-Packard-Tandem-Digital  (HPTD). >u3 >"Compaq" brings nothing to HP that HP didn't have. E Maybe HP relized that IA-64 was not going to hack it. Just maybe theye; are looking at alpha to differentiate the enterprise markete   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:07:23 +0100+ From: "Pye, Graham" <Graham.Pye@COMPAQ.com>g. Subject: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)P Message-ID: <F5949552111A66489D2D578D92B369720174382F@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:dL <<< It also gets stuff such as the all-in-1 engineers (are there any left ?)   Yes, thanks.  C Graham Pye (ALL-IN-1 Engineering - I won't add a company name :-) )g   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Sep 2001 14:09:50 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>:. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)H Message-ID: <y4u1yjcg35.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:s  O > *IF* they can lower the fixed costs per unit, lower the parts costs, assemblytN > and distribution costs , then their PC business will be more cost productiveD > (not sure if we shoudl say profitable or less of a money loser !).  L I see no way HP-Compaq can compete with Dell in this space. Dell has reducedL inventory from 6 to 4 days. Can you see any of the other companies moving atM that pace? For IBM, the loss of the PC division is a strategically calculatedm< loss. For the others, it's a major part of their business...  L > HP gets from Tandem the high profile customers and NSK technology. It getsK > clustering and the VMS engineers, it also gets stuff such as the all-in-1dN > engineers (are there any left ?) which may help HP rebuilt an office package > to rival MS Office.   I With HP's downplaying (or even killing? I though I read something in thatg- vein) of OpenMail, this seems quite unlikely.a   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:43:24 GMTr. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)= Message-ID: <M%3l7.155000$k7.38886888@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>   L "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote= in message news:00A01876.0E16620E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...  : = > HP has more of a clue about being an enterprise vendor, ...   J Horse-Puckey.  I've dealt with HP on and off for a couple decades now, andK they are going downhill rapidly.  Their gear used to be quality -- now it's3L replete with incompatibility.  Their service used to be okay -- now it rots.  I My latest exercise with them is still on-going (now in its third week); acK brand new HP LaserJet 4100DTN is stalling irregularly.  When it does, I caniI verify that I can no longer ping the network card.  I swap out componentspI (wires, hub ports, wall jacks) all to no avail.  It's definitely the cardoC going bad.  I use the URL in HP's printed manual that came with the1F printer -- 404, not found.  Okay, I go hunting for the page myself andK eventually find something.  When I try to submit an online support request,nL the CGI script bombs.  I call on the phone, wait 10 minutes on hold; presentE my situation, get put on hold, switched to another person, present my F situation AGAIN, bring another "network specialist" online, present myL situation AGAIN!  And their solution?  "Uh, you're running an old version ofL the firmware -- why don't you update it?"  After updating the firmware (duh,H okay, I'll play by your rules just so I can get a replacement) it failedH again.  Our "enterprise network printer" has now been offline for 6 days' waiting for a replacement network card.u  J I have no faith whatsoever in HP-anything.  The news today simply makes me: laugh, although I wish Capellas was ejected as Palmer was.  E I hate to think of an OpenVMS system offline for 6 days waiting for asL network card.  But I really don't think that'll be a problem -- OpenVMS willF whither away in a dark dusty obscure corner of the new Hewlett PaQard.  ! so this is how it ends...  *sigh*e Aarone --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/H "The supersonic boom should hit you in just a few seconds." (Apollo 440)   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:17:40 -0500o- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <l4+AvwzSmDBZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <flkPhONOge+S@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:.d > In article <9n1j3e$2kv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:  J >> 1) The announcement of the phase out of Tru64 UNIX and no port to IA-64 > E > 	NO!  A nice roadmap showing where HP/UX comes together with Tru64.   I    A look at IA-64 makes it appear that both big endian and little endianuF    apps could run at the same, time, provided both APIs existed to the    kernel (can be done).  .    I highly doubt HP will find it worth doing.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:28:18 -0500i+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <2MoFtGbUjub8@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  u In article <wp_k7.7284$IP6.540792@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:S > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:6l$g15makwrE@eisner.encompasserve.org...e< >> In article <3B94480A.957AFB99@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoil  > <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:C >> > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive?o >>D >> The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Having+ >> too many of those is counter-productive.e >>  > OS/400, OS/390, Linux, Windows >  >   A The ones that are making money.  Count on a unified Unix.  Havingo& too many Unixes is counter-productive.   				Robc   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:31:35 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)@. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)3 Message-ID: <EEYIdYX9UtAu@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  F    I've used HP software and found it to be at the opposite end of theF    spectrum from DEC's.  I rank HP with CA for company reputation fromG    my own experience.  HP is a hardware company, slapping UNIX on theirp7    hardware allows them to sells systems at lower cost.d  H    For the record:  no one need send me T-shirts, umbrellas, or bouncing    balls with the HP logo.  F    I now join the ranks of those who hope to see VMS spun off as/to an    independent vendor.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 08:29:42 -0700e: From: peter.sugden@barclaysmercantile.co.uk (Peter Sugden). Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)= Message-ID: <6cc55e03.0109040729.430b049e@posting.google.com>n  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3B94A605.5F0653C7@videotron.ca>...s > "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote:oL > > I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be& > > renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-) > ) > Hewlett-Packard-Tandem-Digital  (HPTD).e > 4 > "Compaq" brings nothing to HP that HP didn't have.  O The new company to be fair to Hewlett-Packard and Compaq ltd will probable be ai combination of the two names.u' So its likely to be Hewlett-Packard ltdi   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:56:11 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>r. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)( Message-ID: <9n2th6$28e$1@pyrite.mv.net>  E "babiarz at endor .com" <babiarz_member@newsguy.com> wrote in messageC# news:9n2ae602i1e@drn.newsguy.com...e9 > In article <3B94A605.5F0653C7@videotron.ca>, JF says...  > >0  > >"Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote:J > >> I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be' > >> renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)> > >B* > >Hewlett-Packard-Tandem-Digital  (HPTD). > >n5 > >"Compaq" brings nothing to HP that HP didn't have. G > Maybe HP relized that IA-64 was not going to hack it. Just maybe theyH= > are looking at alpha to differentiate the enterprise market   B And so they let all the EV8 developers go to Intel just before the acquisition offer?   I don't think so.A   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:09:16 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>C. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)+ Message-ID: <3B94FCAC.D8BAC40B@caltech.edu>.   cjt & trefoil wrote:  @ > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive?  G None, other than Windows and Linux, which neither one owns or controls.w  P After spending _way_ too much for Compaq and then many, many years trying to sew togetherQ this Frankenstein's monster of a company, the whole thing will collapse under itsa own weight, M finally crushed in the marketplace by more nimble, and more importantly, lesse self preoccupied, companies.  N But that's only if the deal actually goes through.  My bet is that this mergerK will never complete in  its current form.  It is anticompetitive on so manynK levels it makes my head spin.  There's just no way that the US and EuropeaneN agencies aren't going to come down on this one really hard.  At the very least they could requireN a spinoff of one or the other PC company (go to many PC stores and all you seeN are Compaq's and HPs), and possibly something similar in the enterprise arena,M maybe even in the handheld area as well.  And that's the only way that VMS iso+ going to survive this - spun off somewhere.b  M The stockholders are going to have to approve this as well, and if I was one,nM I'd  vote NO on spending $25 Billion to buy Compaq and the world of hurt thatsN will go along with that.  If it were $3 Billion it might fly (keep most of theP the engineers, all of the service contracts, and fire/shut down everything else)Q and it might be a deal worth closing.  But  25 Billion dollars for a company thatyQ has recently shed all of its valuable technology, and most of its best employees, M and isn't even profitable, nor likely to be so in the near future?  It's justhP plain nuts.  This deal is so bad it makes Quaker's purchase of Snapple look like a stroke of genius!p   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu  Q *********************************************************************************-  B *                                                              RIHQ Compaq                                                                          *t  Q *********************************************************************************g   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:09:11 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)@ Message-ID: <20010904160911.64835.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  2 HP wants to become a Services Company, like Compaq( was saying for a long time - stange no ?2 There isnt the Interest of technology development.2 They want to Integrate technologies. So, they dont2 need a processor plant. IBM still researching, but  Motorola develops the PowerPC...   REgardsf   FC=20m    * --- Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: >=206 > "babiarz at endor .com" <babiarz_member@newsguy.com> > wrote in message% > news:9n2ae602i1e@drn.newsguy.com...f3 > > In article <3B94A605.5F0653C7@videotron.ca>, JFt	 > says...o > > >i" > > >"Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote:6 > > >> I guess the company will continue to retain the > HP name, but could ith > be) > > >> renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)  > > >t, > > >Hewlett-Packard-Tandem-Digital  (HPTD). > > >e1 > > >"Compaq" brings nothing to HP that HP didn'tt > have. 5 > > Maybe HP relized that IA-64 was not going to hackr > it. Just maybe theys- > > are looking at alpha to differentiate then > enterprise market  >=204 > And so they let all the EV8 developers go to Intel > just before thei > acquisition offer? >=20 > I don't think so.s >=20 > - bill >=20 >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DlL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dl F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazild fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dp  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.comP   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:12:51 -0700o' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>d. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)+ Message-ID: <3B94FD83.B81EFD59@caltech.edu>r   Jeff Killeen wrote:b  < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B944B67.9B9D84A0@videotron.ca...I > > I was just wondering during a long bicycle ride today (against strongT > winds)K > > how low Compaq's stock would have to go before something happened (takeg > over< > > or  Capelles kicked out). I guess I have the answer now. >uM > Don't bet on it - Carly Fiorina has also been under heavy fire - we may seei' > both of them gone within 18 months...a  < If this doesn't go through, especially if it doesn't because the HP shareholders reject it,N it's curtains for both of them.   And most of the Directors should be hung out to dry too, becausec? they must have signed off on this hare brained scheme as well.,1   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech..edur   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:42:31 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)* Message-ID: <3B950477.EAB47566@uk.sun.com>   David Mathog wrote:  >  > Jeff Killeen wrote:p > > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3B944B67.9B9D84A0@videotron.ca...K > > > I was just wondering during a long bicycle ride today (against strongn
 > > winds)M > > > how low Compaq's stock would have to go before something happened (take> > > over> > > > or  Capelles kicked out). I guess I have the answer now. > >'O > > Don't bet on it - Carly Fiorina has also been under heavy fire - we may see-) > > both of them gone within 18 months...  > > > If this doesn't go through, especially if it doesn't because  > the HP shareholders reject it,P > it's curtains for both of them.   And most of the Directors should be hung out > to dry too, becauselA > they must have signed off on this hare brained scheme as well.,s >    We live in interesting times.   7 When HP failed to buy PWC it was aledged that the real ?9 reasons for the failure were that the major shareholders n: were very concerned that swallowing PWC would distract HP 9 from what they thought was the more pressing issue of how-8 to restructure the companys core businesses. Publically , it was blamed on the increased cost of PWC.   5 Since this HP's market position has not improved and M4 it will be interesting to see what the shareholders  reaction is to the deal.  5 The market doesn't seem that keen HP's market cap is n5 down ~14%, Compaqs is also down while IBM, Sun, Dell  7 and Gateway are up. They are expecting Dell to benefit t' from this in the PC space particularly.'     Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecto   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:02:33 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)* Message-ID: <3B950929.4AD0E05A@virgin.net>  Q > The new company to be fair to Hewlett-Packard and Compaq ltd will probable be ae > combination of the two names.D) > So its likely to be Hewlett-Packard ltdi  d Perfectly true. It's actually going to be just Hewlett Packard. They also seem to want to promote itG initially as the "New HP". Sort of like New Labour in the UK I guess :(9   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:25:11 -0700C+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>i. Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)( Message-ID: <3B950E77.4B645D08@mmaz.com>   cjt & trefoil wrote:  @ > Which of the many OS's the two are involved with will survive?  L Maybe HP VMS will have a better chance now...  Boy, talking about going fullJ circle, my first computer 25 years ago was an HP 2000G with a teletype and
 paper-type...z   BarryA   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOi  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:17:03 -0700P+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>e Subject: HP to Buy Compaq!( Message-ID: <3B950C8F.FAC97CCB@mmaz.com>  I http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html?pagewanted=printe  3 Amazing, now what could this mean to the future?!?!k   Regards,   Barry-     --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO-  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:40:47 +0100C% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u Subject: Re: HP to Buy Compaq!* Message-ID: <3B95121F.E3DD6F93@virgin.net>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:  K > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04DEAL.html?pagewanted=prints >l5 > Amazing, now what could this mean to the future?!?!i >b  K CA will still have to keep referring to DEC ManMan and HP ManMan as callingn9 them HP ManMan and HP ManMan might get a tad confusing :)l  L [Barry is a ManMan user and CA still refer to ManMan on VMS as DEC ManMan inB all communications in case anyone wonders what I am talking about]   >v
 > Regards, >t > Barryc >u > -- >oA > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOg > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:34:01 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>b  Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq!!!/ Message-ID: <tp9pir7bas28bd@news.supernews.com>l  : "Alan E. Feldman" <afeldman@gfigroup.com> wrote in message7 news:af1e4ce6.0109032022.2b567334@posting.google.com...-) > WOAH!!! Just in case you haven't heard:2 >MI > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/09/03/hewlett.packard.compaq.ap/index.htmlC >aE > Carly Fiorina, the chairman and chief executive of Hewlett-Packard,.1 > will become the new company's chairman and CEO.  >n? > Please keep all communications with the new CEO (and other HP6C > personnel) polite, civil, etc. Let's be sure to make a good firste > impression! Be careful.. > E > And now, for better or worse, it's time for a whole nuther round of, > Future-of-VMS threads! >  > HP-VMS anyone? >u   It's now called HoPenVMS.3   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:08:14 -0600t From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>m  Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq!!!' Message-ID: <3B94E04E.E1D42CA8@srv.net>T  C Now that we know of the HP buying Compaq, and the fact that HP is alC main developer of the IA64 chip, doesn't the decision to drop Alphat for IA64 take on a new meaning?I   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > ) > WOAH!!! Just in case you haven't heard:t > I > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/09/03/hewlett.packard.compaq.ap/index.html  > E > Carly Fiorina, the chairman and chief executive of Hewlett-Packard,o1 > will become the new company's chairman and CEO.p > ? > Please keep all communications with the new CEO (and other HP,C > personnel) polite, civil, etc. Let's be sure to make a good firsth > impression! Be careful.i > E > And now, for better or worse, it's time for a whole nuther round ofa > Future-of-VMS threads! >  > HP-VMS anyone? >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanu > afeldman@gfigroup.comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:09:42 GMTs* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>  Subject: Re: HP to buy Compaq!!!+ Message-ID: <3B94EEE9.93A7E34E@prodigy.net>i   John Vottero wrote:s > < > "Alan E. Feldman" <afeldman@gfigroup.com> wrote in message9 > news:af1e4ce6.0109032022.2b567334@posting.google.com...f <snip> > >y > > HP-VMS anyone? > >  >  > It's now called HoPenVMS.h   With the emphasis on HoPe ?i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:20:17 GMT.& From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org> Subject: HP-Compaq merger forum/> Message-ID: <ly4l7.60318$xj.12581977@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>  H I've put up an HP-Compaq merger forum.  Post some thoughts there for the  non-newsgroup reading community.  	 HP-Compaq-) http://www2.tru64.org/phorum/list.php?f=81   Ken4   -- Ken Farmer, kfarmer@tru64.org. Tru64.org, http://www.tru64.orgH Tru64.org Newsletter:a< http://www2.tru64.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registration   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 07:34:18 GMTo( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: I hate Compaq0 Message-ID: <9n205q$f5b$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <3TrXw7YHG7FQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:c >In article <3B93EE72.5E3561E@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>, Toon Moene <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl> writes:e >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >> e? >>> If 30% of nasty problems can be made to go away by reducing = >>> optimization, you indeed have compiler problems.  I doubtP> >>> this is consistent across all compiler vendors.  (The fact< >>> that I have not encountered this level on any particular; >>> compiler doesn't prove much, since the software I writei >>> is different from yours.)i >> eK >> Hmmm, that's not my experience as the maintainer of g77.  Between 80 andrH >> 90 % of all errors reported by users as "optimisation errors" (in theG >> sense that they "go away when using less or no optimisation") are in@  >> fact user programming errors. >> i@ >> It's just that non-optimised code is often very forgiving ... >g> >Understood.  I was assuming thorough investigation had proven; >it was not a problem in the code being compiled, since the ? >description was of an environment where things were thoroughly-	 >checked.e  ? Yes, that is so.  I quite agree that 90% of the "compiler bugs" B reported to me are actually user errors, but I am referring to theB ones that that I localise enough to say "That can't be right!" but8 have not necessarily identified precisely what is wrong.  B If we stick to the ones that I have identified, then my experience> is roughly as stated for Fortran.  However, for C, the largest@ category is where the standard is ambiguous or inconsistent, andA the implementor and user have interpreted it differently - I call > these errors in the C standard, which does not make me popular1 with the Committee, as many are deliberate (sic)!s  = Notice, however, that I am talking about HIGH optimisation of-B complex codes, as important in HPC and SMP coding and (in the near? future) for EPIC and possibly Pentium 4 multi-threading.  There ? are many fewer problems seen in the lower optimisations typical > of g77 and even gcc use, as well as when compiling very simple@ kernels (like the BLAS).  But the times they are a-changing ....  < In particular, optimisation for most forms of parallelism is@ particularly prone to throw up such problems, as you are relying@ on the precise boundaries of what aliasing is legal and illegal.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:46:21 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: I hate Compaq3 Message-ID: <dlvi+6M3qpUx@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  [ In article <9n205q$f5b$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:   > > In particular, optimisation for most forms of parallelism isB > particularly prone to throw up such problems, as you are relyingB > on the precise boundaries of what aliasing is legal and illegal.  C Are there standards ambiguities regarding aliasing, or are compilera? vendors going beyond what is safe ?  Ada95 seems to have rathere; complete mechanisms for determining the safety of aliasing.t   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 11:02:57 GMTD( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: I hate Compaq0 Message-ID: <9n2cd1$pru$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <dlvi+6M3qpUx@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i/ Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: 4 |> In article <9n205q$f5b$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, - |> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  |> -A |> > In particular, optimisation for most forms of parallelism is E |> > particularly prone to throw up such problems, as you are relying E |> > on the precise boundaries of what aliasing is legal and illegal.  |> iF |> Are there standards ambiguities regarding aliasing, or are compilerB |> vendors going beyond what is safe ?  Ada95 seems to have rather> |> complete mechanisms for determining the safety of aliasing.  > My guess is that Ada95 is probably pretty good, as it has been@ said to be by some people who are clued-up, but I should be very2 surprised if there weren't quite a few loose ends.  = Fortran 90 is fairly clean as long as you use SOLELY standard.< Fortran.  As soon as you use things like Cray pointers, MPI,? OpenMP, POSIX threads, most forms of shared memory or interruptI? handling, you start getting into deep water.  And, for explicitT7 parallelism, you are always using at least one of them.e  @ C is, of course, unspeakable.  It has some gross ambiguities and? even inconsistencies, even in the strictly conforming subset oftA the language.  And ALL of those categories that I described abovel> turn over stones that let out nasty, slimy, venomous problems.> Ignoring the aspect that some of them are explicitly undefined
 behaviour.  ? Reports are that C++ is little better than C.  Java, of course,e) is effectively an unoptimisable language.n     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679f   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 07:05:43 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: I hate Compaq3 Message-ID: <ClOAA54Qvjfm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <9n2cd1$pru$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:i > 5 > In article <dlvi+6M3qpUx@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:h6 > |> In article <9n205q$f5b$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, / > |> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:* > |>  C > |> > In particular, optimisation for most forms of parallelism ispG > |> > particularly prone to throw up such problems, as you are relying G > |> > on the precise boundaries of what aliasing is legal and illegal.* > |> *H > |> Are there standards ambiguities regarding aliasing, or are compilerD > |> vendors going beyond what is safe ?  Ada95 seems to have rather@ > |> complete mechanisms for determining the safety of aliasing. > @ > My guess is that Ada95 is probably pretty good, as it has beenB > said to be by some people who are clued-up, but I should be very4 > surprised if there weren't quite a few loose ends. > ? > Fortran 90 is fairly clean as long as you use SOLELY standarda> > Fortran.  As soon as you use things like Cray pointers, MPI,A > OpenMP, POSIX threads, most forms of shared memory or interrupttA > handling, you start getting into deep water.  And, for explicit 9 > parallelism, you are always using at least one of them.   A So does the Fortran 90 standard require that implementations havei/ a mode that will reject non-standard features ?e   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Sep 2001 14:12:51 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>c Subject: Re: I hate CompaqH Message-ID: <y4r8tncfy4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:r  C > So does the Fortran 90 standard require that implementations haven1 > a mode that will reject non-standard features ?   N Yes, at least for certain syntactic deviations from the standard. In practice,K all compilers I know of have a switch that will report standards violations3L (usually as warnings, and you usually have the ability to turn warnings into errors).   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 12:24:00 GMTi( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: I hate Compaq/ Message-ID: <9n2h50$j2$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>_  H In article <y4r8tncfy4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:.2 |> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: |> eF |> > So does the Fortran 90 standard require that implementations have4 |> > a mode that will reject non-standard features ? |> FQ |> Yes, at least for certain syntactic deviations from the standard. In practice,@N |> all compilers I know of have a switch that will report standards violationsO |> (usually as warnings, and you usually have the ability to turn warnings into  |> errors).p  B Unfortunately, most of the issues that I was describing are either> semantic or outside the language altogether :-(  Few languages@ require checking of the former (on efficiency and practicability@ grounds) and none can of the latter, clearly.  As far as I know,= Fortran has no required run-time checks in the aliasing area.s  A Ada certainly has more required semantic checking, but it used to = be moderately incompatible with performance, and it certainlysA doesn't have any checking of things like MPI's constraints.  This,@ is not a theoretical limitation, but is a consequence of bolting@ a library (MPI) onto a language with a different semantic model.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:57:02 GMT.  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> Subject: Re: I hate Compaq8 Message-ID: <lmj9ptk31drosu2t53fpoaodrhrq2lab2l@4ax.com>  F Well, I guess as of this morning we can all stop worrying why you hate Compaq.k   R.I.P.    C On Sat, 01 Sep 2001 19:23:00 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aun wrote:   >Jan.n > ) >>paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:g >>2 >>> Read comp.risks 17/08/2001 Risks Digest 21.61. >>L >>Of course I have. I thought comp.risks were required reading for every one >>in the field!? >mN >*We* might consider it so, but my experience shows me that not everyone else 	 >does :-)s >eH >Experience also shows me that not all VMS managers/administrators read 3 >c.o.v, nor Fortranners read c.l.f or the F90 list.t >  >Regards, Paddyn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:54:57 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r Subject: Re: I hate Compaq8 Message-ID: <76n9pt8155jor2ooeuq306rqf79vl5b6lq@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:57:02 GMT, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote:C  G >Well, I guess as of this morning we can all stop worrying why you hatet >Compaq.  ? Interestingly some UK news agencies are reporting that Europeant- regulators are hinting they might block this.o onsider it s >R.I.P.o >w >h -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Sep 2001 17:34:22 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: I hate CompaqH Message-ID: <y4bskrm0ld.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  * nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  D > Unfortunately, most of the issues that I was describing are either@ > semantic or outside the language altogether :-(  Few languagesB > require checking of the former (on efficiency and practicability
 > grounds)  B Well, sematic checking really is difficult - I have yet to see the, DWIM computer, or the mind-reading compiler.  9 > and none can of the latter, clearly.  As far as I know,e? > Fortran has no required run-time checks in the aliasing area.-  F It doesn't need any, because it doesn't allow any problematic cases of
 aliasing.    	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 15:52:09 GMT-( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: I hate Compaq0 Message-ID: <9n2tb9$b4f$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>   In article <y4bskrm0ld.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:- |> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:a |> rG |> > Unfortunately, most of the issues that I was describing are eitheryC |> > semantic or outside the language altogether :-(  Few languages-E |> > require checking of the former (on efficiency and practicabilityy
 |> > grounds)T |> @E |> Well, sematic checking really is difficult - I have yet to see them/ |> DWIM computer, or the mind-reading compiler.h  > You don't need to do that!  WATFIV, for example, checked array; bounds and argument values (which, in Fortran, are semantica? constraints) at run-time.  Ditto Delft Algol, Cobol and Ada and A overflow.  Yes, it is hard, but it is not impossible to check the - semantic constraints defined by the language.0  < |> > and none can of the latter, clearly.  As far as I know,B |> > Fortran has no required run-time checks in the aliasing area. |> .I |> It doesn't need any, because it doesn't allow any problematic cases ofe
 |> aliasing. .   !!!!!w  : Forbidding something is not the same as requiring it to be9 detected, whether at compile-time or run-time.  One couldE< equally well say that a language need not require any syntax; error diagnostics, because it doesn't allow any problematicn	 cases :-)r  ; Returning to Fortran aliasing, I could debate the existencea< of problematic cases, but they are pretty minor and obscure.> However, the real issue is that it forbids aliasing but not in> such a way that it can be detected at compile-time.  Therefore9 the only way that erroneous aliases can be detected is at 	 run-time.-     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679d   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 05:08:18 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: IBM  <  >  Itaniumn@ Message-ID: <20010904120818.34753.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  / Do you belive now IBM as an Itanium sponsor?=20H5 Or they will give a help to the PowerPC technologies?m  6 The Compaq+HP merge is the reason of the afandon of=20 the Monterey project  ! ! !=20     Regards,   FC=20t   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilS fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D1  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 05:15:01 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: IBM  buys HP @ Message-ID: <20010904121501.37164.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  % Oops ! This message traveled in a newm0 Cisco Interspace-time router developed after the0 aquistion of Lucent and Juniper technologies,=204 and jumped into a black hole and returned 5 years in the past...l   Regard   F=E1bio Cardoso    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilr fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dl  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:31:03 +01005 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com>s Subject: RE: IBM  buys HP3P Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080101DDE5B4@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  F Perhaps in the same freaky world IBM will buy CHomPaq and turn it into CHIMPaq-     	Oliver    -----Original Message-----5 From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]:) Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 1:15 PM7 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms Subject: IBM buys HP    % Oops ! This message traveled in a news0 Cisco Interspace-time router developed after the0 aquistion of Lucent and Juniper technologies,=204 and jumped into a black hole and returned 5 years in the past...r   Regard   F=E1bio CardosoH   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DtI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=- =3D=3D F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil( fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=t =3D=3D  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?C Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! =,	 Messenger  http://im.yahoo.comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:34:32 GMTb& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> Subject: Re: IBM  buys HPe3 Message-ID: <YD5l7.3$Vx1.3246@typhoon2.gnilink.net>s  B Count your blessing - it could have been Dell takes over Compaq...  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messageo: news:20010904121501.37164.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com...% Oops ! This message traveled in a newe0 Cisco Interspace-time router developed after the- aquistion of Lucent and Juniper technologies,"4 and jumped into a black hole and returned 5 years in the past...g   Regard  
 Fbio Cardosoa   =====> ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?K Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messengerk http://im.yahoo.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:49:38 -0400a- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>s Subject: Re: IBM  buys HPh+ Message-ID: <sb94b1da.021@AAASMTA.aaas.org>n  F See, that was even more unlikely than HP taking over Compaq. Dell is =H strictly a PC maker, and they're busy depleting their cash in a war of = attrition with Gateway.l  J I would have thought someone like IBM would have been more likely to buy =H them...it's along the same vein as their acquisition of Informix. They =I could migrate Tandem customers to Z90 (Formerly 390), or leave them be. =sL They could buy the Tru64/VMS user base and migrate them to RS/6000 running =J AIX (and face it, while we like VMS, a lot of managers don't. If someone =L offered them a smooth transition path from an OS they don't understand and =L whose future is somewhat questionable to AIX or OS/390, I think they'd get = a pretty big buy in).=20  I On the other hand, Cisco hasn't bought anything in a couple months. Two =aJ years ago it would have been even money they'd have bought Compaq to own = the patents on DECNET.  ? >>> "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> 09/04/2001 10:34:32 AM >>> B Count your blessing - it could have been Dell takes over Compaq...  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20010904121501.37164.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com...% Oops ! This message traveled in a new:0 Cisco Interspace-time router developed after the- aquistion of Lucent and Juniper technologies,i4 and jumped into a black hole and returned 5 years in the past...    Regard   F=E1bio Cardoson   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DgL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dl F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br=20hL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?C Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! =5	 Messengera http://im.yahoo.com=20   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Sep 2001 23:34:11 -0700-/ From: andreas.stiller@eds.com (Andreas Stiller)rY Subject: Re: installing extensions to MOD_PERL (was Re: CSWS, MOD_PERL - anyone have HELL$= Message-ID: <e8f4a56a.0109032234.3d054342@posting.google.com>o   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0151B.868A73E1@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...) npacking and building any DBD::* drivers.t >  > PERLBUILD.MODULES.DBI> > PERLBUILD.MODULES.DBI>mms>M > %MMS-F-GWKNOPRN, There are no known sources for the current target  [.BLIB.  > ARCH.AUTO.DBI]DRIVER.XST   You have to say $ MMS ALL  (bug in perl 5.5)e    	 > CC/DECCgJ > /Include=[]/Standard=Relaxed_ANSI/Prefix=All/Obj=.obj/List/Machine/DefinR > e=(,DBI_NO_THREADS,,DBI_NO_THREADS,"VERSION=""1.15""","XS_VERSION=""1.15""")/Inc> > lude=(perl_root:[lib.VMS_AXP.5_00503.CORE])/Optimize  PERL.cP > %DCL-W-VALREQ, missing qualifier or keyword value - supply all required valuesK > %MMS-F-ABORT, For target PERL.OBJ, CLI returned abort status: %X00038150.cP > -CLI-W-VALREQ, missing qualifier or keyword value - supply all required values > PERLBUILD.MODULES.DBI>   You have to edit the makefile:@ Find the plave where the wrong CFLAGS are defined, searching for( DBI_NO_THREADS and remove the lonely ","  & Then it works (at least it did for me)   Regardsf Andreasu   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: IT's Hannibalsi@ Message-ID: <20010904172620.83162.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Well     Compaq ate Tandemi Compaq ate DEC
 HP ate Compaq    Who will be the next ?   IBM will eat Sun Dell will eat Gatewaye Microsoft will eat Oracleo   :-)))s     Regardsa   FC=20i   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:45:49 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)m Subject: Re: IT's Hannibalst0 Message-ID: <00A018D0.5E9578C2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <20010904172620.83162.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:m >Wellr >e >m >Compaq ate Tandem >Compaq ate DECr >HP ate Compaq >, >Who will be the next ?> >o >IBM will eat Suna >Dell will eat Gateway >Microsoft will eat Oracle >  >:-)))  0 ... and we'll all wind up eating what flies eat.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc            nJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:06:40 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eK Subject: Jo Mcnally (just resigned as chair of Compaq UK) speaks to the BBC 8 Message-ID: <5rg9pto8bfktcseen49orsb1igga78f0ia@4ax.com>  K http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1520000/audio/_1524261_compaqhp07_mcnally.rame     -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 00:33:53 -0700* From: "Welsh, John" <John.Welsh@Avnet.com> Subject: RE: KZCCA-CB problems. G Message-ID: <FD833ACB0214D511B9B20004ACC5766B010A6581@asia01.avnet.com>   J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13513.F2F35A90m Content-Type: text/plain   Jeremy,@: 	Thanks for the info.    Even though its not supported we 7 	are trying to get it running anyway for the 100Mb NIC.o  > 	It does look like a driver issue.  An ewdriver comes with the> 	kit but I have not yet figured out how to load the driver and 	associate it with the card.  8 	I can use sysgen and connect ewa0 /driver=ewdriver  but( 	I have no adapter to associate it with.   	I will keep on trucking..   Regards, John Welsh.-	 =========-   > -----Original Message----- > From:	Welsh, John % > Sent:	Monday, 3 September 2001 5:27: > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 > Subject:	KZCCA-CB problems.k >  > 
 > Hi Gang, > 	fD > 	I am trying to install a KZCCA-CB  adapter into VAX4000-705A and < > 	am having difficulty trying to get the 100MB NIC working. > 6 > 	The card is a Compaq product and is manufactured by > 	Intraserver.r > @ > 	I have installed the Intraserver software ( VAXSCSI_016 ) kit< > 	and the PKWdriver seems to be running for the FWDiff port7 > 	but am unable to get DECNET or TCPIP to see the EWA0e" > 	device.The VMS version is V7.1. > ! > 	Any help would be appreciated.l > 
 > John Welsh.  > ========== > john.welsh@avnet.com >  >  >  >  >   ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13513.F2F35A90m Content-Type: text/htmlw+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">h <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =a charset=3Dus-ascii">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2654.19">r% <TITLE>RE: KZCCA-CB problems.</TITLE>  </HEAD>c <BODY>  A <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jeremy,</FONT> H <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =E SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks for the info.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Even = # though its not supported we </FONT>aH <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =E SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">are trying to get it running anyway for the =e 100Mb NIC.</FONT>  </P>  G <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =-D SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It does look like a driver issue.&nbsp; An = ewdriver comes with the</FONT>H <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =H SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">kit but I have not yet figured out how to load = the driver and</FONT>.H <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =: SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">associate it with the card.</FONT> </P>  G <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =s; SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I can use sysgen and connect ewa0 =y# /driver=3Dewdriver&nbsp; but</FONT>hH <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =F SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I have no adapter to associate it with.</FONT> </P>  G <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" = 7 SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I will keep on trucking.</FONT>  </P>  B <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Regards,</FONT>F <BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">John Welsh.</FONT>& <BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =1 FACE=3D"Arial">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT>s </P> <UL>B <P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>I <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =n+ SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Welsh, John </FONT>RI <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =2< SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Monday, 3 September 2001 5:27</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =.F FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =+ FACE=3D"Arial">Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>s <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =)I FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=i< </B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">KZCCA-CB problems.</FONT> </P> <BR>  0 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi Gang,</FONT>1 <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20r? <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 = E FACE=3D"Arial">I am trying to install a KZCCA-CB&nbsp; adapter into =r VAX4000-705A and </FONT>? <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =tA FACE=3D"Arial">am having difficulty trying to get the 100MB NIC =i working.</FONT>- </P>  > <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =A FACE=3D"Arial">The card is a Compaq product and is manufactured =g	 by</FONT>b? <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =h" FACE=3D"Arial">Intraserver.</FONT> </P>  > <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =H FACE=3D"Arial">I have installed the Intraserver software ( VAXSCSI_016 = ) kit</FONT>? <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =oE FACE=3D"Arial">and the PKWdriver seems to be running for the FWDiff =n port</FONT>e? <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =l@ FACE=3D"Arial">but am unable to get DECNET or TCPIP to see the = EWA0</FONT>t? <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 = 5 FACE=3D"Arial">device.The VMS version is V7.1.</FONT>  </P>  > <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =4 FACE=3D"Arial">Any help would be appreciated.</FONT> </P>  3 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">John Welsh.</FONT>nG <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT>e= <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">john.welsh@avnet.com</FONT>  </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </UL>> </BODY>' </HTML>y) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13513.F2F35A90--c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:34:50 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r Subject: Re: KZCCA-CB problems.l$ Message-ID: <3b94e6cb$1@news.si.com>  1 ><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi Gang,</FONT>o2 ><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20@ ><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =F >FACE=3D"Arial">I am trying to install a KZCCA-CB&nbsp; adapter into = >VAX4000-705A and </FONT> @ ><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =B >FACE=3D"Arial">am having difficulty trying to get the 100MB NIC = >working.</FONT> ></P>M   Don't post MIME.  I I have a Nemonix 100 MB NIC installed in a VAX 4000-600A.  It works greateI execpt for one thing: the drivers don't load until well into the VMS boot F sequence.  Thus, it can't be used for cluster communications.  ClusterI traffic will flow through the board only after the drivers load, which isuK too late.  I have VMS configured to use it for DECnet, TCP/IP, and LAT, butm, still run the cluster traffic over the FDDI.  @ At any rate, here's an excerpt from my SYS$STARTUP:SYCONFIG.COM:   $ mcr config_pci 100f clusters $!5 $!    The following line equates esa0 to ewa0 so that 5 $!    existing network applications can find the fastD $!    ethenet port.= $! $ define/sys/exec esa0 ewa03 --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comrA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com3= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:19:31 -0700-+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>: Subject: Re: KZCCA-CB problems.s( Message-ID: <3B950D23.5CFFF032@mmaz.com>  & --------------B29A4ACAD97C068C26106881* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      "Welsh, John" wrote:  
 > Hi Gang, >rF >         I am trying to install a KZCCA-CB  adapter into VAX4000-705A > and C >         am having difficulty trying to get the 100MB NIC working.s > = >         The card is a Compaq product and is manufactured by3 >         Intraserver. >DG >         I have installed the Intraserver software ( VAXSCSI_016 ) kitnC >         and the PKWdriver seems to be running for the FWDiff port=> >         but am unable to get DECNET or TCPIP to see the EWA0) >         device.The VMS version is V7.1._ >o( >         Any help would be appreciated.  G The NIC is disabled per Compaq.  I have been poking around to see if it C is possible to get it working and one problem that I believe I have0G noticed is that there is not MAC for the NIC.  Perhaps the driver couldM/ be loaded to use a hardcoded, arbitrary number?8   Regards,   Barryc   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOm  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028-    & --------------B29A4ACAD97C068C26106881) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitb  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp; <br>"Welsh, John" wrote:M <blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Hi Gang,</font></font>dP <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>IQ am trying to install a KZCCA-CB&nbsp; adapter into VAX4000-705A and</font></font>=R <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>amD having difficulty trying to get the 100MB NIC working.</font></font>R <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>The= card is a Compaq product and is manufactured by</font></font>&j <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Intraserver.</font></font>P <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>II have installed the Intraserver software ( VAXSCSI_016 ) kit</font></font>2S <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>and C the PKWdriver seems to be running for the FWDiff port</font></font>2S <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>but > am unable to get DECNET or TCPIP to see the EWA0</font></font>Z <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>device.The" VMS version is V7.1.</font></font>R <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Any5 help would be appreciated.</font></font></blockquote>o  F <p><br>The NIC is disabled per Compaq.&nbsp; I have been poking aroundI to see if it is possible to get it working and one problem that I believenF I have noticed is that there is not MAC for the NIC.&nbsp; Perhaps the@ driver could be loaded to use a hardcoded, arbitrary number?<br> <br> Regards, <p>Barry <p>--aF <p>Barry Treahy, Jr&nbsp; *&nbsp; Midwest Microwave&nbsp; *&nbsp; Vice President &amp; CIOaD <p>E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028 <br>&nbsp;</html>t  ( --------------B29A4ACAD97C068C26106881--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:32:51 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i Subject: Letter from Capellasr8 Message-ID: <3re9pt8qqofs4reeqmj9qk0kfvtkfrqh1r@4ax.com>  * There's a letter from Capellas to staff at1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/21444.htmlg  B No mention of VMS. Also Ben Rosen pop up at the end interestingly. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:33:31 +0200S= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a( Subject: Re: More Alpha rubbish in print) Message-ID: <3B94D82B.21F3F83E@gtech.com>h   andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote: > > andrew harrison wrote:? > > > According to the latest windows survey StarOffice now has ; > > > 15% of the Office market ahead of Corel and Lotus but/ > > > behind MS Office.  > >  > > URL please ? > - > It was a poll done by Windows 2000 magazineo > F > http://www.win2000mag.com/Poll/Index.cfm?QID=198&Action=PreviousPoll > E > Obviously it is only based on their magazine/web readers responses.e  B 1284 readers of a magazine that (based on the headlines) is rather? technical does not sound as a good indicator for how the officer applicationr market in general are.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:30:57 +010030 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>( Subject: Re: More Alpha rubbish in print* Message-ID: <3B9501C1.1BC60B29@uk.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > =D   > andrew harrison wrote: > > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > > > andrew harrison wrote:A > > > > According to the latest windows survey StarOffice now has = > > > > 15% of the Office market ahead of Corel and Lotus buts > > > > behind MS Office.= > > >- > > > URL please ? > >-/ > > It was a poll done by Windows 2000 magaziner > >tJ > > http://www.win2000mag.com/Poll/Index.cfm?QID=3D198&Action=3DPreviousP= oll( > >eG > > Obviously it is only based on their magazine/web readers responses.0 > =@  D > 1284 readers of a magazine that (based on the headlines) is ratherA > technical does not sound as a good indicator for how the officeL
 > applicationD > market in general are. > =     @ As I said its only based on their readers responses, now where =  : is the URL for the OpenVMS is the bestest OS based on an =  5 online poll with rather less than 1284 responses ????    Regardst Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 11:48:07 GMTc From: dragon <dragon@vt82.nuts>,< Subject: Re: New HP To Layoff 20,000 CPQ Per The-Advisor.com) Message-ID: <3B94C040.7436A4BC@vt82.nuts>]   (1)i3   http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7046410.htmlwJ The combined entity will be based in Palo Alto, Calif., HP's hometown, andJ retain a "significant presense" in Houston, where Compaq is headquartered.   (2)w% By Peter Henderson, Reuters, 9/4/2001 L Under the terms of the merger, which would rank as one of the largest in theK technology field, Compaq shareholders would receive 0.6325 shares of HP for G each share owned. That values Houston-based Compaq at $14.68 a share, auC nearly 19 percent premium to its closing price of $12.35 on Friday.-   =rant== K Compaq had relocated many DECies to Houston.  Are they supposed to relocates to Palo Alto now?2: In the last round of layoffs, they are mostly from ex-DEC,F vms/alpha-related.  How much DECies stuff will be moved to the new HP?< 20k employees mentioned would really wipe out the NE DECies.   Jerry Leslie wrote:    > From:  >20 >    http://www.the-adviser.com/Articles/HP2.htm >DD >   "BREAKING NEWS-   The hotel sites were booked only two nights in4 >    advance and the trail led right to Wall Street. >iJ >    Tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. EDT at the Equitable Building in New York City,F >    HP and Compaq will formerly present merger plans for the combined >    companies._ >oJ >    HP and Compaq confirmed that their boards have agreed on a definitiveK >    merger. The name of the Company will HP, the merger team led mostly byaH >    HP management and upon conclusion, the combined companies will haveH >    No. 1 worldwide revenue positions in servers, access devices (PCs &) >    hand-helds), and imaging & printing.e >0B >    Initial feedback from Compaq's executives is that this is "anK >    acquisition by HP." Preliminary job cuts will are expected to drive at A >    least $2.5 billion in savings (we estimated $4 to $5 billionlF >    realistically based on a preview of tommorow's presentation).  AtH >    least 20,000 employees, primarily from Compaq, are expected to lose >    their jobs quickly."r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:30:24 -0700'+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>m< Subject: Re: New HP To Layoff 20,000 CPQ Per The-Advisor.com( Message-ID: <3B950FB0.A94A1457@mmaz.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:    > AtH >    least 20,000 employees, primarily from Compaq, are expected to lose >    their jobs quickly."a  J Good, perhaps the brilliant folks that shot themselves (and many of us) inJ the head with the announcement of the death of Alpha will be at the top of the list...c   Barrye   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:47:26 +01000% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>.( Subject: No mention of VMS in conference8 Message-ID: <n2q9pt0pbs9a9af0ndne72aqc5gimpsuja@4ax.com>  = During the premiere of the Mike and Carly show today Unix was E mentioned NT and the PC market was mentioned, Himalaya was mentioned,mC iPAQ was mentioned, printers, storage all got a look-in but VMS wasm1 not mentioned once unless anyone knows different.    Only to be expected I suppose.  C One interesting point is that Carly said they had discussed getting B out of the PC market completely but ruled it out. She did say thatD they intended to concentrate on the enterprise but that could easilyD mean IA64/Win64 given that she listed Intel and Microsoft as the new HP's number one partners.t -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:35:08 GMT=& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>, Subject: Re: No mention of VMS in conference5 Message-ID: <Mw6l7.12$Vx1.47443@typhoon2.gnilink.net>c   Was there any mention of MPE?   2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:n2q9pt0pbs9a9af0ndne72aqc5gimpsuja@4ax.com... > ? > During the premiere of the Mike and Carly show today Unix was G > mentioned NT and the PC market was mentioned, Himalaya was mentioned, E > iPAQ was mentioned, printers, storage all got a look-in but VMS wass3 > not mentioned once unless anyone knows different.t >e  > Only to be expected I suppose. > E > One interesting point is that Carly said they had discussed gettinglD > out of the PC market completely but ruled it out. She did say thatF > they intended to concentrate on the enterprise but that could easilyF > mean IA64/Win64 given that she listed Intel and Microsoft as the new > HP's number one partners.E > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:24:21 +0100=% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>C, Subject: Re: No mention of VMS in conference* Message-ID: <3B950E44.BF861CCD@virgin.net>   Jeff Killeen wrote:    > Was there any mention of MPE?D >A  K No but MPE has been in retirement mode for a long time. Just customers keepOG buying it. HP have been phoning MPE customers recently asking them what;K their future plans were. My guess is that VMS will outlive MPE for numerousn reasons.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:03:52 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>T& Subject: Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?8 Message-ID: <l459ptg9vj9h69umri74bea0f051ruo7qi@4ax.com>  @ On 3 Sep 2001 11:22:41 -0700, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:N   >B8 >  (Conspiracy theory for the day: do you suppose Compaq; >was already planning on scrapping Alpha in favour of Intelf6 >way back when they killed the Win2K on Alpha project?; >The decision certainly makes more sense in light of recentF >developments.)C  ? Yes. I said exactly that back at the time as a deja search willbB reveal: I said "I do not have a warm fuzzy feeling beyond EV7"  orB something like that. Many others said similar and Compaq respondedE with multiple statements of commitment to Alpha. Notably never signed;B by Capellas of course. Meanwhile Gartner et al. reported that theyD expected Compaq to drop Alpha for IA64 because the Compaq board told% them the truth but lied to customers.   D I then argued heavily for an IA64 VMS port so that it would be readyB when Compaq pulled the Alpha plug. Terry Shannon responded that it2 would never happen unless Compaq open-sourced VMS.  C Also at the time of the Alphacide I said this makes no sense at all"7 unless something else is in the works such as a merger.T  F Still trying to figure out exactly what I make of this. WIll watch the webcast at 9am EDT."   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:09:20 +0100B% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>:& Subject: Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?8 Message-ID: <of69pto3ptaur7ogb53itdhnebg68hvtn7@4ax.com>  @ On 3 Sep 2001 16:13:13 -0700, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:I   >. Some MachiavellianI8 >entity within Compaq ( from the Intel side of the house; >presumably ) could certainly have been pulling strings allpI >along to bring Compaq to this conclusion. OTOH it could all be explained/> >by simple incompetence or ( as others have alleged ) a naieveE >trust in Microsoft as a partner. I don't suppose we'll ever know for; >sure which it was.  ;   or d) All of the above."   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:11:23 +0100>% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s& Subject: Re: NT or w2k on alpha 1200 ?8 Message-ID: <3j69pts8ncsflker1a10tunveodu9uafuc@4ax.com>  @ On 3 Sep 2001 16:20:53 -0700, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:=  ; >   For us mere mortals it seems a version more recent thane7 >beta ( was it Release Candidate 1? ) is not to be had.;  ? It has ben reported several times that copies of the Gold final C release were made available within Microsoft and that there are ftpE# sites where this could be obtained.s   >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:28:50 +0100<0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>> Subject: Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...)* Message-ID: <3B950142.95B5BC4C@uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > D > andrew harrison wrote in message <3B869991.108C0BC9@uk.sun.com>... > >>F > >>   Byte-word can also greatly help native code execution, and this > >>   is the normal case. > >> > >>7 > >Like for example Cobol, better tell poor old Fred heI# > >is confused and needs your help.l > >a >   2 Do you remember what this thread is about ????????  I I suggested that the environment that Compaq will find themselves in (HP 3G now) is very different to the one that they were in when the VAX->Alpham migration was effected.>  D I suggested that having control over the ISA and the implimentation F of that ISA allowed Compaq to add support to that ISA for the OS's and0 applications that they were migrating to Alpha.   D Despite your rather pathetic descent into name calling all you have D actually done is confirmed that this was the case. Byte/Word access B was added according to you to improve NT performance (others have ? also suggested FX!32 perf as well and your sales people at the C@ time suggested Cobol as well). Other posters have also confirmedB that instructions were added specifically to support VESTED apps.   @ So what are you objecting to, all you have done is confirmed my  origional posting.  > Of course Compaq will become part of HP and HP do have a much ? greater influence over the IA64 ISA than Compaq would have, any > bets on HP persuading Intel to allow them to add instructions . to the IA64 ISA to help OpenVMS run on IA64 !!   regardso Andrew HarrisonuN > Look wing nut.  Byte/Word access was not provided initially because the chipE > designers felt that there would be a performance issue with it.  InTN > addition, they felt IO was heading in the direction of smart controllers and
 > all DMA. > L > It turns out that byte/word access wasn't the problem they thought it was,L > and PIO is still quite common.  The reason byte IO was added was that codeJ > size could be reduced, performance could sometimes be improved, but mostL > importantly of all - NT drivers did not need to be modified to swizzle IO. > E > It wasn't done because of Cobol performance issues, or VESTed imagenN > performance.  I'm sure that overall code size and performance was however, aF > help in making the decision a no-brainer (a no brainer that had much > discussion).   -- - Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:23:08 GMTu3 From: sy18889@COYOTE.FMR.COM (Bradford J. Hamilton). Subject: Re: OVMS License-0 Message-ID: <0xSk7.83$4W2.205@news-srv1.fmr.com>  	 Hi Peter,r  ; I was able to run Mozilla successfully on Alpha OVMS 7.2-1,n5 with up-to-date patches (Digital PWS 433au hardware).s  ? I am now running it on Alpha OVMS 7.3, same hardware.  It is a v@ little slow at times, but it is as stable as "pre-beta" software  can be (Mozilla 0.8, 0.9.1,2,3).   --Brad  g >In article <3b93b12b.13042812@news.cable.ntlworld.com>, peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) writes: > >On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:32:19 GMT, peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter >Watkinson) wrote: <snip> >a@ >also sometimes the software is said to be Open vms 7.2.1 or 7.2E >released i beleive in 1999. My question is will Mozilla run on 7.2.xh5 >on alpha or does it require the latest version -7.3?d > 
 > regards, >p >i >Peter Watkinson >peterw@u.genie.co.ukt >http://www.pwnavigate.com/s& >http://www.windsurf-international.com >http://you.genie.co.uk/peterw/ % >http://www.freerider-classifieds.com  Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)   ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"4   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:12:32 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)< Subject: Re: Serial Console? (was: Re: EV7 will never ship?)3 Message-ID: <Ab6l7.1181$bB1.47645@news.cpqcorp.net>:  N In article <9mqpid$jfj@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:4 :In article <sxvj7.1013$bB1.45502@news.cpqcorp.net>,4 :Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: ..N :>   With IA-32, there is an existing remote management API widget available, H :>   though this is apparently a remote GUI-based interface, not serial. :rI :The very idea of a Windows-only GUI-based remote management system beingpJ :in any way a replacement for a command-line based serial console is quite :unreal. ..L :A DL running UNIX or a RTOS at a lights-out facility with a modem link overK :third-world phone lines isn't going to benefit from your "GUI-based remote& :management API".b  J   You might not like it and might not need it, or you might prefer anotherH   appproach or another solution.  Others do prefer a GUI-based approach.  F   In geographies without an existing wire-line structure, wireless andC   satellite are the technology approaches most often chosen -- withnG   lower start-up costs than a wire-line approach, that approach is moreaE   often preferable to stringing copper (or glass fiber).  Globalstar,sI   Iridium (yes, they're still around) and other vendors now offer hybrid eF   satellite and (for instance) CDMA (cellular) phones, for instance.  L   Various vendors also offer higher-bandwidth wireless/satellite solutions,    of course.  D :Digital used to be a powerhouse in the realtime industry, you know.  E   There are many things that many existant and many non-existant (or mE   merged) companies used to be, you know.  Further, while the astute nF   reader will clearly strives to learn from history (eg: comp.risks), A   the mistakes are often far more educational than the successes.b    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:29:02 +0100q% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a, Subject: Should have listened to Andrew Neff8 Message-ID: <ovh9ptgqb0ma8mr2j40g68cbdpcvbmfa0a@4ax.com>  > So did Andrew Neff have some inside knowledge even in January?   >Search Result 1& >From: Alan Greig (agreig@my-deja.com)> >Subject: Re: ***** INSANITY ***** READ IS IMPORTANT - OR NO ? >Newsgroups: comp.os.vms5 >View: Complete Thread (4 articles) | Original Formath >Date: 2001-01-17 07:20:37 PST >V$ >On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:13:11 -0300,+ >fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:v >S >>Click  >>I >>http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-4500953-0.html?tag=st.ne.1002.lthde >>' >>May be ... Hp should buy Compaq ! ! !  >> >>RIDICULOUS ! ! ! >> >  >0E >What I find more ridiculous is the reports of other analysts resposeo >to this suggesion:  >iF >"Bear Stearns PC analyst Andrew Neff after the bell Tuesday fired offA >what he called a "manifesto," recommending massive and immediatehG >consolidation of the major U.S. PC vendors. Some of his contemporariesr >strongly disagreed. . >... >...G >"Needham & Co. analyst Charles Wolf said the report was the "height of A >stupidity" and an overreaction tainted by the current woes of PC 	 >stocks. s >...7 >Wolf said none of Neffs proposed mergers make sense. V >=B >"Why would HP buy Compaq?" he said. "What do they buy? Theyd get< >nothing. Theres no technology there... This is insanity."  > @ >So one market analyst suggests HP should buy Compaq and another) >responds that Compaq has no technology."e >dD >There's Compaq failing to get the message across again about Alpha, >VMS, Storageworks etc...  >t >--  >Alan Greign >0   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 11:02:41 +0100n/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>0A Subject: Silly names (was: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail)))7 Message-ID: <00A018B9.946BF542.44@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>r   > J > I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be$ > renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-)  H My suggestion is CHomPaq, as there will be a lot of chomping and hacking
 going on ....p   	Yours,t
 		Nigel Arnot2- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:40:27 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>CE Subject: Re: Silly names (was: RE: HP to buy Compaq (Globe and Mail))1/ Message-ID: <tp9puso775n097@news.supernews.com>0  4 And, of coarse, OpenVMS will now be called HoPenVMS.  < "Nigel Arnot" <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote in message1 news:00A018B9.946BF542.44@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk...P > >HL > > I guess the company will continue to retain the HP name, but could it be& > > renamed Hewlett-Compackard ?   :-) >eJ > My suggestion is CHomPaq, as there will be a lot of chomping and hacking > going on ....  >s > Yours,
 > Nigel Arnot8 > NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK > 7 > "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:46:02 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>f2 Subject: Re: Small DECterm Font & DECwindows Fonts3 Message-ID: <RO5l7.1175$bB1.47602@news.cpqcorp.net>   J Fonts are server side entities.  So when set display to the Linux box, theL font comes from the Linux box.  DECterm may want a font with specific naming@ conventions (as well as specific characters in specific places).     Terry Murphy wrote in messager7 <_DOk7.2153$eu.829831327@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>...aK >I am looking for a small DECterm font that I can use on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha,pJ >so I can fit a whole DECterm into a 640x480 VNC window. I tried using theJ >default small font (-DEC-Terminal-Medium-R-Normal--14-*-*-*-*-*-*) but it isL >a little bit too big. Whenever I tried any smaller size of that font, I gotL >an error saying it wasn't available. I tried "fixed", and the size is fine,H >but it doesn't support the special DEC fonts. Is there a smaller font IE >could use (12 point of the DEC terminal font would definitely work)?i >hL >My next question is, where do fonts come from? My DECwindows display is setK >to a Linux machine, but even when I enter fonts that are available on thatlI >machine (the 12 point DEC terminal, for example, is available and usabletL >from the Linux machine) I get an error if they're not available. Typically,G >in the Unix world, the font comes from the server side, not the client0 side,0I >but here they seem to be coming from the the client side. Is this indeedR* >true by default, and how can I change it? >c >Thanks, >Terry >0 >. >A   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:01:09 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: some mozilla questionsp3 Message-ID: <V06l7.1178$bB1.47614@news.cpqcorp.net>o  G In article <3B901D1A.3060106@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:hJ :1. Is it possible to change the screen resolution of Motif on a Personal 
 :workstation?1  B   Um, specifically which graphics controller?  (I'd suggest takingC   a quick look at the OpenVMS FAQ, since it has an introduction to gD   this area.  Also, several graphics controller settings are posted    at the Ask The Wizard area.)  9 :2. The date in Mozilla news and mail is in US/UK format sJ :(month/day/year). I would like to have it in continental European format J :(day/month/year). On a windooz pc the format is usualy determined by the : :"Regional Settings". But there is no such thing in VMS...  @   Um, yeah, there is such a mechanism on OpenVMS.  Two, in fact.  K   See the C Run-time Library (RTL) manual in the OpenVMS documentation set eK   -- this is the OpenVMS C manual and *not* the C documentation -- for the eJ   C mechanisms for establishing Locale, etc.  For the OpenVMS mechanisms, B   see the OpenVMS Programming and System Management documentation.  @   That said, I do not know of Mozilla will pick up the settings.A   (As Mozilla is based on the C RTL, those settings would be the     first target.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:16:07 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>a# Subject: Re: some mozilla questions - Message-ID: <3B94FDD5.8F2165F8@theblakes.com>h  ( This issue is being worked in bug #97875  1 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=978756   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:34:12 GMTe From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com J Subject: SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC  (versus virtual/logical disks), V7.3 Alpha8 Message-ID: <0869ptkfir216jfjnf4rn12527utql5ssc@4ax.com>  % After upgrading to V7.3,  i'm seeing 9  .  -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failed6  -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported    by device for  this function  5 in a few instances, where/when output is directed to  2 a 'virtual' disk (via Glenn Everhart's VDDRIVER), < or a 'logical' disk  (via Jur van der Burg's LDDRIVER v6.3).  3 Example instances in which I've seen this, so far, -1 have been during a (RTR Vv4) PRODUCT INSTALL and 5? during some (all?) process dumps (ie, after a SET PROCESS/DUMP)   @ 1st thing, obviously, is to look into updated drivers (if avail)7 and/or figure out the mods needed for 64 bit addresses.m  + But maybe there was some other work-around  A I was overlooking.  Rather doubt it,  but thought I'd ask anyway,a@  in case someone else had ran across these same issues recently)      5 %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ...iC %SYSTEM-F-IMGDMP, dynamic image dump signal at PC=000000000017ABA0,s PS=0000001Bh7 %PROCDUMP-E-WRITEERR, error writing VDA9:[TMP]RTR.DMP;1d- -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failed"B -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported by device for
 this functioniC %SYSTEM-F-IMGDMP, dynamic image dump signal at PC=000000000017ABA0,l PS=0000001B.7 %PROCDUMP-E-WRITEERR, error writing VDA9:[TMP]RTR.DMP;1m- -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failedoB -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported by device for
 this function6    @ %PROCDUMP-E-WRITEERR, error writing LDA1:[PROD.GDAT]ACCVIO.DMP;1- -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failed B -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported by device for
 this functiont; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtualo: address=0000000000000000, PC=FFFFFFFF8098A6A8, PS=0000001B/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows99   image    module    routine             line      rel PCa abs PC      >                                             0 0000000000000000 FFFFFFFF8098A6A8>  ACCVIO  ACCVIO  main                    2829 0000000000000100 0000000000020100>  ACCVIO  ACCVIO  __main                     0 000000000000006C 000000000002006C>                                             0 FFFFFFFF802513F4 FFFFFFFF802513F4           image name: "VDDRIVER"(         image file identification: "X-3"+         image file build identification: ""d/         link date/time:  4-OCT-1998 09:39:23.30a'         linker identification: "A11-39"i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:05:13 -0400  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>eN Subject: Re: SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC  (versus virtual/logical disks), V7.3 Alpha' Message-ID: <3B94DF99.DFD92556@gce.com>i  M There are versions of vddriver that will not generate the complaint about nonl6 64 bitness. Look for a later one on recent sigtapes...  I Turns out a new FDT entry was added. The newer alpha vddrivers have that.r      LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com wrote: > & > After upgrading to V7.3,  i'm seeing > 0 >  -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failed7 >  -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supportedv  >   by device for  this function > 6 > in a few instances, where/when output is directed to3 > a 'virtual' disk (via Glenn Everhart's VDDRIVER), > > or a 'logical' disk  (via Jur van der Burg's LDDRIVER v6.3). > 4 > Example instances in which I've seen this, so far,2 > have been during a (RTR Vv4) PRODUCT INSTALL andA > during some (all?) process dumps (ie, after a SET PROCESS/DUMP)r > B > 1st thing, obviously, is to look into updated drivers (if avail)9 > and/or figure out the mods needed for 64 bit addresses.> > , > But maybe there was some other work-aroundC > I was overlooking.  Rather doubt it,  but thought I'd ask anyway,yB >  in case someone else had ran across these same issues recently) > 7 > %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ...iE > %SYSTEM-F-IMGDMP, dynamic image dump signal at PC=000000000017ABA0,e
 > PS=0000001BX9 > %PROCDUMP-E-WRITEERR, error writing VDA9:[TMP]RTR.DMP;1n/ > -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failedfD > -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported by device for > this function E > %SYSTEM-F-IMGDMP, dynamic image dump signal at PC=000000000017ABA0,i
 > PS=0000001Bg9 > %PROCDUMP-E-WRITEERR, error writing VDA9:[TMP]RTR.DMP;1e/ > -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failedyD > -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported by device for > this functions > B > %PROCDUMP-E-WRITEERR, error writing LDA1:[PROD.GDAT]ACCVIO.DMP;1/ > -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failediD > -SYSTEM-F-NOT64DEVFUNC, 64-bit address not supported by device for > this functionc= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtuale< > address=0000000000000000, PC=FFFFFFFF8098A6A8, PS=0000001B1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsp; >   image    module    routine             line      rel PC6 > abs PC@ >                                             0 0000000000000000 > FFFFFFFF8098A6A8@ >  ACCVIO  ACCVIO  main                    2829 0000000000000100 > 0000000000020100@ >  ACCVIO  ACCVIO  __main                     0 000000000000006C > 000000000002006C@ >                                             0 FFFFFFFF802513F4 > FFFFFFFF802513F4 >   >         image name: "VDDRIVER"* >         image file identification: "X-3"- >         image file build identification: ""d1 >         link date/time:  4-OCT-1998 09:39:23.30d) >         linker identification: "A11-39"r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:14:54 -0400o- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> F Subject: Terry Knows... ??? Was: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update+ Message-ID: <sb949ba8.075@AAASMTA.aaas.org>n  I I suggest something more generic. Perhaps "Terry knows stuff" or "Terry =e7 knows a lot" or "Terry knows Digital Compaq Tandem HP".   I Who's to say there isn't another merger in the pipe? We all thought the =JD idea of HP and Compaq was crazy. Give this economic downturn (see: =K recession) another year or so. After all, here in the US we're stuck with =o the shrub for another 3 years.  8 >>> jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> 09/04/2001 8:54:31 AM >>>D Well, I guess we all have our answer today on the sudden turn-around2 in the Alpha business.  Wow!  Is it ever a doozie!  E One  real burning question left is:  What will Terry Shannon call his2 publication now?    E On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:23:58 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>0 wrote:   >M2 >"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message3 >news:anLj7.1361$cJ1.247928@typhoon1.gnilink.net...e >>2 >> "- bill" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message: >> news:841e9c22.0108301720.52039f3b@posting.google.com...A >> > To refresh your memory:  Compaq broke the written, explicit,WL >> > unequivocal commitments to Alpha's future expressed in the 'commitment=  E >> > to Alpha' letter from Jesse Lipcon and Bill Heil that was postedrD >> > prominently on Compaq's Web site until well after the June 25thJ >> > announcement.  In case you never saw that letter during the 2 years = orG >> > so it was there, you can find a copy that I posted to comp.arch on,J >> > August 19th under the "I hate Compaq" thread (a thread not started byJ >> > me, by the way), since some people there seemed to be unfamiliar withJ >> > the letter and it had finally disappeared from the Web site.  SimilarJ >> > commitments were made to many individual customers as well, of courseH >> > - right up to June 25th (see an August 27th post from Alan Greig inI >> > the same thread for just one example among many).  Compaq broke themg6 >> > all without any hint of apology, let alone shame. >>- >> You have repeatedly claimed Compaq "lied".a > B >I'm beginning to think that you have severe reading-comprehensionL >difficulties.  The paragraph above has nothing directly to do with lies:  = itJ >explicitly addresses the 'broken commitments' portion of what you asked = fordJ >details about (though, as Jan pointed out in his response, the letter wasD >used, right up to June 25th, to *support* subsequent lies told by = Compaq). >r >... > J >> The fact is was posted after June 25th does not mean someone knew the 2 >yearoI >> old letter was there and intentionally left it posted.  Who knows if I H >> search Compaq's web site I might find an old page talking about their >> commitment to the PDP-11. > G >Again, see Jan's response:  not only was Compaq well aware that it wasfG >there, but it consistently used it to bolster subsequent statements ofd >commitment. >r >>G >> You set the standard that Compaq "lied" (known falsehoods) and you =  failed >tod# >> meet the standard with this one.e >s@ >No, you just failed to meet minimal standards of comprehension. >e >>G >> > Compaq attempted to justify the decision by asserting that Alpha'ssH >> > engineers had told it that Alpha would have difficulty keeping up = withH >> > IA64's performance.  One Alpha architect has stated publicly that = thisH >> > was an outright double-lie (i.e., no such statement was made by theE >> > Alpha engineers, nor do they concur with its content:  Alpha was-E >> > chugging right along the path laid out for it years ago, with noQH >> > unexpected recent hiccups - until Compaq pulled out the rug on JuneA >> > 25th), and other Alpha architects (plus one high-level AlphapH >> > development manager) have privately agreed with him.  Not one has = come) >> > forward to support Compaq's version.  >>G >> You will have to point me to where one of these Alpha architect saide >this -e: >> forgive if I don't have blind faith in your statements. >dD >What I don't forgive you for is your failure to make even minimal = attemptsI >to become familiar with the material under discussion before wading in =A andIE >suggesting that people who *have* made that effort don't know what =  they're  >talking about.h >DC >If you didn't see them at the time, you can search comp.arch and =, comp.os.vmsaH >for posts from Brannon Batson as easily as I can:  I suggest you do so. >w >  Also I need your0F >> reference to where Compaq said it would have trouble "keeping up" = becauseIG >> from day one I heard it as Compaq would have trouble maintaining itsfI >> performance edge over IPF three generations out.  What I was told is =s veryG >> different than what you claim Compaq said - there is a major betweenrE >> "keeping up" and "maintaining its performance edge".  It was never 
 >expressedA >> to me as Alpha falling behind but instead IPF closing the gap.d > L >The latter is as much a lie as the former, according to private statements=  J >made by the Alpha engineers in question to multiple people (at least to = PaulD >DeMone and myself, plus I think to Bob Kaplow).  And you may find = explicitG >public statements by Brannon to that effect, though I'm not sure now =r whether  >they were public or private.k >aC >There was also a private, internal statement by a high-level AlphaaC >development manager that the decision to drop Alpha was made for =e	 business,i >not technical, reasons. >wL >While the suggestion that Alpha would have difficulty keeping up was made = atI >some point, I don't have the patience to wade through Google trying to =a findK >it.  So let's just call the contention that Alpha couldn't have retained =i a)9 >significant performance lead a lie and leave it at that.  >  >>H >> My understanding of what drove the decision was more than pure chip = speed.H >> I was told upfront that it was at the system performance level that = became
 >> the issue.h >iI >All the more reason for Compaq to retain the advantages Alpha gave it in C >that area - e.g., EV7's on-chip glue, which would have given EV8 =p
 continuingD >*system* advantages over the competition in addition to EV8's new =	 features.h >oJ >Alpha's advantages weren't only in on-chip speed, but in integration thatH >enhanced overall system speed.  Now they're stalled as of EV7, and will- >appear in IA64 (if at all) years after that.n >.A >  Remember Alpha's performance advantage was both its chip speedeI >> and the fact that it was 64 bit.  What the team saw who was building =p theiJ >> follow-on to the Wildfire was the IPF systems would close in on Alpha's >> systems in the future >eB >Bullshit.  The Wildfire follow-on is Marvel, which will enjoy theK >performance advantages of EV7's on-chip glue and thus draw farther ahead =  ofK >IPF in real-world use rather than lose ground.  EV8 showed every promise =- ofI >even greater performance differentiation in server applications due to =n SMT@J >(with no loss of ground even in single-threaded use, due to its ability = to >use 8-wide issue there).e >c6 > - it was never ever expressed to me as Alpha systems# >> would have trouble "keeping up".o >>K >> I seriously disagree with your statement as to what Compaq claimed - I =n see 0 >> no lie here. Plus the article you quote belowH >> (http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 ) backs up what I said >> above.... >>= >>     "This is a very bold move for us," said Rich Marcello,O6 >>     vice president and general manager for Compaq's3 >>     performance systems group. He noted that thel6 >>     Alpha road map extended for several more years,9 >>     but that starting around 2004, when the chip woulde: >>     have competed head-to-head against Intel's Itanium,D >>     its performance advantage would begin to erode significantly.; >>     "When we looked at our road map and overlaid it with(: >>     Intel's road map, we found there was no substantial? >>     performance benefit," he said. "Basically, we are saying B >>     that we couldn't differentiate ourselves at the CPU level." >>H >> ... he did not say that there was a problem with "keeping up" he said >there2 >> was a problem with maintaining the "advantage". > J >The phrase 'no substantial performance benefit' is quite a bit stronger = thanD >the allegation that the advantage might erode somewhat - but to all >appearances both are false. >sF >The advantages (on-chip glue for RAMBUS and SMP) that EV7 enjoys overD >McKinley, and those that EV8 would have added (SMT plus wider-issueI >single-thread performance were biggies, but there may have been others),jH >plus the absence of any new indication of post-McKinley enhancements toI >IA64, plus the arguments advanced in Compaq's own alpha-vs.-IA64 white =. papertK >(alpha_ia64.pdf), make it reasonable to call Rich's statements lies:  he =a waswJ >certainly well aware of all these factors (having been using them to sell8 >Alphas for years), and made no attempt to address them. >t >>H >> > Inconsistently, Compaq also, via employee newsgroup posts and via aF >> > discussion Mark Gorham and VMS engineers had with 'Alphaman' (seeB >> > c.o.v. posts the week of the announcement), stated that AlphaH >> > technology would be used to 'rescue' the failing IA64 architecture,J >> > resulting in technology equivalent to what Alpha otherwise would haveH >> > been - and in a time-frame that would benefit the VMS port by the = timeB >> > it was completed.  This lie was so incompetent (and likely soI >> > unwelcome when Intel heard about it) that it died out very quickly -oC >> > but it nonetheless happened, and Compaq is accountable for it.. >>L >> Internal newsgroup postings - give me a break.  Compaq (not individuals = inJ >> newsgroups) has never publically said, that I have seen, that the Alpha >team  >> would "rescue" IPF. > H >You're free to call Alphaman a liar, but I'd suggest that having Mark = GorhamC >do so would be more appropriate, since to all appearances you knowd( >absolutely nothing about the situation. >pI >And as for newsgroup postings, you have Compaq to thank for not having =- other-: >more formal discussion forums to depend upon for answers. >n >... >a7 >> I would want to see the exact Mark Gorham statement.  >eH >As I suspect would a lot of people, including me.  Why not ask him to = take- >the initiative in breaking Compaq's silence?3 >F >  As far as what mostK >> employees (not Compaq but employees) said the week of the announcement =r it >> should be ignored.  >-D >Funny - at least one of them went so far as to say that he had been >authorized to speak.s >o >... >cH >> > And Compaq presented Alpha development costs as being unsupportableJ >> > (see a June 27th eWeek interview with Winkler, plus additional drivelB >> > from Terry and others - including you).  I responded to theseL >> > assertions in a July 19th posting in the c.o.v. "Alpha:  an invitation=  F >> > to communicate" thread, plus other smaller supporting posts sinceD >> > then, and, again, no one has stepped forward with contradictoryI >> > evidence to suggest that this was not yet another Compaq lie (thougheG >> > an EETimes story - http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 -uF >> > suggests that Winkler's statement that Alpha's annual developmentF >> > costs were $300 million was yet another lie, and the R&D spendingD >> > projections in Compaq's own annual reports tend to support that >> > suspicion). >>C >> My understanding is the costs came from all of Alpha _systems_ =  developmentoI >> and NOT just the cost of pure chip development.  For example each time,D >> Compaq needed to burn a new set of ASIC's for the Wildfire duringI >> development the cost was about one million dollars per batch - those =r costG >> start to add up very quickly.  It is not just the chip - it is the =" totalEE >> cost of maintaining the server development effort unique to Alpha.t >>E >> Did Winkler say "Alpha's annual development costs" or did he say =  "Alpha'sF >> annual _chip_ development costs".  There is a big difference there. >Pleaset/ >> point me to the source of the Winkler quote.C >4J >I did:  the June 27th eWeek article I mentioned above.  Here's the quote: >EI >'According to Winkler, just to design and develop future generation of =i AlphaeD >was costing Compaq $300 million a year, he said. "That's no small = change,"
 >he said.' > 
 >and the URL:OF >http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2780645,00.html=20 >FC >However, since Compaq's server-development expenses are at least = 	 currently H >slated to continue (e.g., its 'commitment' to develop Marvel-style IA64K >servers, though exactly what that means is not clear, given that so much =8 ofH >Marvel's attraction derives from EV7's on-chip glue features which seemG >impossible to add to IA64 before 2005 at the earliest), including such0H >expenses in the figure above would seem disingenuous at best, but couldH >explain the factor-of-2 discrepancy between the EETimes cost estimate = (and+ >the Compaq annual reports') and Winkler's.e >f >> >> > Clear enough for you now? >>J >> All that is clear Bill is that your conclusions are based upon the spin >youJ >> have attached to Compaq's actions and not what Compaq has actually been
 >> saying. >uJ >Why *anyone* would treat what Compaq says at this point as significant isG >not at all obvious.  But its statements in the Heil/Lipcon letter werevJ >entirely unambiguous, so at least in that case my conclusions are based = on >*exactly* what Compaq said. >n> >  You haven't backup up your case that Compaq "lied" (willfulJ >> misrepresentation) and several statements you made above are contrary = to >> what I heard from Compaq. >sI >So?  Why do you believe Compaq rather than, say, the Alpha engineers who I >vigorously and without a single dissenting voice deny what Compaq claimsr# >they told it?  Please be specific.r >l2 >  They only claim above you have that holds water2 >> is that Compaq's commitment to Alpha changed... > G >There's a not-very-subtle difference between one's internal feeling ofgE >'commitment' to a platform and one's external, explict, written, ande# >repeated commitments to customers.s >h >- billo >y >s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:48:58 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>aJ Subject: Re: Terry Knows... ??? Was: Conference: CETS-2001 Detailed Update/ Message-ID: <tp9qerdf93jeaa@news.supernews.com>e   I suggest "Shannon's Nose".   8 He's always sniffing out rumors about lots of companies.  8 "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote in message% news:sb949ba8.075@AAASMTA.aaas.org...0G I suggest something more generic. Perhaps "Terry knows stuff" or "TerryS7 knows a lot" or "Terry knows Digital Compaq Tandem HP".O  L Who's to say there isn't another merger in the pipe? We all thought the ideaH of HP and Compaq was crazy. Give this economic downturn (see: recession)L another year or so. After all, here in the US we're stuck with the shrub for another 3 years.  8 >>> jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> 09/04/2001 8:54:31 AM >>>D Well, I guess we all have our answer today on the sudden turn-around2 in the Alpha business.  Wow!  Is it ever a doozie!  E One  real burning question left is:  What will Terry Shannon call hisC publication now?    E On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:23:58 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o wrote:   >n2 >"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message3 >news:anLj7.1361$cJ1.247928@typhoon1.gnilink.net...y >>2 >> "- bill" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message: >> news:841e9c22.0108301720.52039f3b@posting.google.com...A >> > To refresh your memory:  Compaq broke the written, explicit,8K >> > unequivocal commitments to Alpha's future expressed in the 'commitment0E >> > to Alpha' letter from Jesse Lipcon and Bill Heil that was posted0D >> > prominently on Compaq's Web site until well after the June 25thK >> > announcement.  In case you never saw that letter during the 2 years or G >> > so it was there, you can find a copy that I posted to comp.arch oneJ >> > August 19th under the "I hate Compaq" thread (a thread not started byJ >> > me, by the way), since some people there seemed to be unfamiliar withJ >> > the letter and it had finally disappeared from the Web site.  SimilarJ >> > commitments were made to many individual customers as well, of courseH >> > - right up to June 25th (see an August 27th post from Alan Greig inI >> > the same thread for just one example among many).  Compaq broke themr6 >> > all without any hint of apology, let alone shame. >>- >> You have repeatedly claimed Compaq "lied".  > B >I'm beginning to think that you have severe reading-comprehensionI >difficulties.  The paragraph above has nothing directly to do with lies:w itL >explicitly addresses the 'broken commitments' portion of what you asked forJ >details about (though, as Jan pointed out in his response, the letter wasK >used, right up to June 25th, to *support* subsequent lies told by Compaq).u >n >... >nJ >> The fact is was posted after June 25th does not mean someone knew the 2 >year2I >> old letter was there and intentionally left it posted.  Who knows if IfH >> search Compaq's web site I might find an old page talking about their >> commitment to the PDP-11. >"G >Again, see Jan's response:  not only was Compaq well aware that it was2G >there, but it consistently used it to bolster subsequent statements ofo >commitment. >x >>L >> You set the standard that Compaq "lied" (known falsehoods) and you failed >to # >> meet the standard with this one.p > @ >No, you just failed to meet minimal standards of comprehension. >  >>G >> > Compaq attempted to justify the decision by asserting that Alpha'stK >> > engineers had told it that Alpha would have difficulty keeping up withhK >> > IA64's performance.  One Alpha architect has stated publicly that thisaH >> > was an outright double-lie (i.e., no such statement was made by theE >> > Alpha engineers, nor do they concur with its content:  Alpha waseE >> > chugging right along the path laid out for it years ago, with nodH >> > unexpected recent hiccups - until Compaq pulled out the rug on JuneA >> > 25th), and other Alpha architects (plus one high-level Alpha K >> > development manager) have privately agreed with him.  Not one has comeo) >> > forward to support Compaq's version.e >>G >> You will have to point me to where one of these Alpha architect saide >this -g: >> forgive if I don't have blind faith in your statements. > K >What I don't forgive you for is your failure to make even minimal attemptstK >to become familiar with the material under discussion before wading in andoK >suggesting that people who *have* made that effort don't know what they're* >talking about.t > A >If you didn't see them at the time, you can search comp.arch and2 comp.os.vmsmH >for posts from Brannon Batson as easily as I can:  I suggest you do so. >t >  Also I need yoursL >> reference to where Compaq said it would have trouble "keeping up" becauseG >> from day one I heard it as Compaq would have trouble maintaining itslL >> performance edge over IPF three generations out.  What I was told is veryG >> different than what you claim Compaq said - there is a major betweenaE >> "keeping up" and "maintaining its performance edge".  It was never>
 >expressedA >> to me as Alpha falling behind but instead IPF closing the gap.a >rK >The latter is as much a lie as the former, according to private statementsyH >made by the Alpha engineers in question to multiple people (at least to PaulK >DeMone and myself, plus I think to Bob Kaplow).  And you may find explicittE >public statements by Brannon to that effect, though I'm not sure nowu whethere >they were public or private.e >nC >There was also a private, internal statement by a high-level Alpha K >development manager that the decision to drop Alpha was made for business,e >not technical, reasons. >lJ >While the suggestion that Alpha would have difficulty keeping up was made atL >some point, I don't have the patience to wade through Google trying to findK >it.  So let's just call the contention that Alpha couldn't have retained ae9 >significant performance lead a lie and leave it at that.t >  >>F >> My understanding of what drove the decision was more than pure chip speed.F >> I was told upfront that it was at the system performance level that became
 >> the issue.t >aI >All the more reason for Compaq to retain the advantages Alpha gave it inhL >that area - e.g., EV7's on-chip glue, which would have given EV8 continuingL >*system* advantages over the competition in addition to EV8's new features. >fJ >Alpha's advantages weren't only in on-chip speed, but in integration thatH >enhanced overall system speed.  Now they're stalled as of EV7, and will- >appear in IA64 (if at all) years after that.  >rA >  Remember Alpha's performance advantage was both its chip speedeK >> and the fact that it was 64 bit.  What the team saw who was building thetJ >> follow-on to the Wildfire was the IPF systems would close in on Alpha's >> systems in the future >mB >Bullshit.  The Wildfire follow-on is Marvel, which will enjoy theL >performance advantages of EV7's on-chip glue and thus draw farther ahead ofL >IPF in real-world use rather than lose ground.  EV8 showed every promise ofK >even greater performance differentiation in server applications due to SMTtK >(with no loss of ground even in single-threaded use, due to its ability ton >use 8-wide issue there).I >n6 > - it was never ever expressed to me as Alpha systems# >> would have trouble "keeping up".r >>I >> I seriously disagree with your statement as to what Compaq claimed - I  seeA0 >> no lie here. Plus the article you quote belowH >> (http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 ) backs up what I said >> above...e >>= >>     "This is a very bold move for us," said Rich Marcello,l6 >>     vice president and general manager for Compaq's3 >>     performance systems group. He noted that thei6 >>     Alpha road map extended for several more years,9 >>     but that starting around 2004, when the chip wouldr: >>     have competed head-to-head against Intel's Itanium,D >>     its performance advantage would begin to erode significantly.; >>     "When we looked at our road map and overlaid it witha: >>     Intel's road map, we found there was no substantial? >>     performance benefit," he said. "Basically, we are saying B >>     that we couldn't differentiate ourselves at the CPU level." >>H >> ... he did not say that there was a problem with "keeping up" he said >there2 >> was a problem with maintaining the "advantage". >pH >The phrase 'no substantial performance benefit' is quite a bit stronger thanD >the allegation that the advantage might erode somewhat - but to all >appearances both are false. >dF >The advantages (on-chip glue for RAMBUS and SMP) that EV7 enjoys overD >McKinley, and those that EV8 would have added (SMT plus wider-issueI >single-thread performance were biggies, but there may have been others),7H >plus the absence of any new indication of post-McKinley enhancements toG >IA64, plus the arguments advanced in Compaq's own alpha-vs.-IA64 white  paperaI >(alpha_ia64.pdf), make it reasonable to call Rich's statements lies:  heo wasuJ >certainly well aware of all these factors (having been using them to sell8 >Alphas for years), and made no attempt to address them. >s >>H >> > Inconsistently, Compaq also, via employee newsgroup posts and via aF >> > discussion Mark Gorham and VMS engineers had with 'Alphaman' (seeB >> > c.o.v. posts the week of the announcement), stated that AlphaH >> > technology would be used to 'rescue' the failing IA64 architecture,J >> > resulting in technology equivalent to what Alpha otherwise would haveK >> > been - and in a time-frame that would benefit the VMS port by the timehB >> > it was completed.  This lie was so incompetent (and likely soI >> > unwelcome when Intel heard about it) that it died out very quickly -aC >> > but it nonetheless happened, and Compaq is accountable for it.w >>J >> Internal newsgroup postings - give me a break.  Compaq (not individuals inJ >> newsgroups) has never publically said, that I have seen, that the Alpha >teamr >> would "rescue" IPF. > F >You're free to call Alphaman a liar, but I'd suggest that having Mark GorhamC >do so would be more appropriate, since to all appearances you knowt( >absolutely nothing about the situation. >lG >And as for newsgroup postings, you have Compaq to thank for not havingf other : >more formal discussion forums to depend upon for answers. >t >... >a7 >> I would want to see the exact Mark Gorham statement.r >aK >As I suspect would a lot of people, including me.  Why not ask him to takev- >the initiative in breaking Compaq's silence?d >( >  As far as what mostL >> employees (not Compaq but employees) said the week of the announcement it >> should be ignored.w >dD >Funny - at least one of them went so far as to say that he had been >authorized to speak.a >a >... > H >> > And Compaq presented Alpha development costs as being unsupportableJ >> > (see a June 27th eWeek interview with Winkler, plus additional drivelB >> > from Terry and others - including you).  I responded to theseK >> > assertions in a July 19th posting in the c.o.v. "Alpha:  an invitationgF >> > to communicate" thread, plus other smaller supporting posts sinceD >> > then, and, again, no one has stepped forward with contradictoryI >> > evidence to suggest that this was not yet another Compaq lie (thoughAG >> > an EETimes story - http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 -tF >> > suggests that Winkler's statement that Alpha's annual developmentF >> > costs were $300 million was yet another lie, and the R&D spendingD >> > projections in Compaq's own annual reports tend to support that >> > suspicion). >>A >> My understanding is the costs came from all of Alpha _systems_  development I >> and NOT just the cost of pure chip development.  For example each time=D >> Compaq needed to burn a new set of ASIC's for the Wildfire duringL >> development the cost was about one million dollars per batch - those costK >> start to add up very quickly.  It is not just the chip - it is the totaloE >> cost of maintaining the server development effort unique to Alpha.h >>L >> Did Winkler say "Alpha's annual development costs" or did he say "Alpha'sF >> annual _chip_ development costs".  There is a big difference there. >Pleasen/ >> point me to the source of the Winkler quote.  >hJ >I did:  the June 27th eWeek article I mentioned above.  Here's the quote: > G >'According to Winkler, just to design and develop future generation of  Alpha K >was costing Compaq $300 million a year, he said. "That's no small change,"n
 >he said.' >t
 >and the URL:iC >http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2780645,00.htmlt > K >However, since Compaq's server-development expenses are at least currentlyhH >slated to continue (e.g., its 'commitment' to develop Marvel-style IA64L >servers, though exactly what that means is not clear, given that so much ofH >Marvel's attraction derives from EV7's on-chip glue features which seemG >impossible to add to IA64 before 2005 at the earliest), including suchuH >expenses in the figure above would seem disingenuous at best, but couldK >explain the factor-of-2 discrepancy between the EETimes cost estimate (andt+ >the Compaq annual reports') and Winkler's.i >  >> >> > Clear enough for you now? >>J >> All that is clear Bill is that your conclusions are based upon the spin >youJ >> have attached to Compaq's actions and not what Compaq has actually been
 >> saying. >tJ >Why *anyone* would treat what Compaq says at this point as significant isG >not at all obvious.  But its statements in the Heil/Lipcon letter were K >entirely unambiguous, so at least in that case my conclusions are based on  >*exactly* what Compaq said. >u> >  You haven't backup up your case that Compaq "lied" (willfulK >> misrepresentation) and several statements you made above are contrary to  >> what I heard from Compaq. >uI >So?  Why do you believe Compaq rather than, say, the Alpha engineers whooI >vigorously and without a single dissenting voice deny what Compaq claimsl# >they told it?  Please be specific.a > 2 >  They only claim above you have that holds water2 >> is that Compaq's commitment to Alpha changed... > G >There's a not-very-subtle difference between one's internal feeling ofnE >'commitment' to a platform and one's external, explict, written, andn# >repeated commitments to customers.  >h >- billc >i >C   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:33:27 GMTd& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Terry Shannon< Message-ID: <HK4l7.32763$aZ.8571078@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  : Does anyone else on this board miss Terry Shannon?   I do.  " He wasn't always right.  (who is)?0 He didn't always tell all he knew. (he couldn't)E He couldn't speak  ill (too much or too frequently or too harshly) of K Compaq, even when he knew they deserved it (can you say "burning bridges").o  L But he always had access to more info than I ever did, and he understood the5 importance of it.  And he was always a VMS supporter.eH There is a lot of bitterness on this board for people that may not be asJ smart, or as informed, or most importantly of the same opinion as the restJ of you, but if we all agreed on everything, then the board would be prettyE boring and useless.  (That is also partly why I enjoy seeing Andrew'sa posts).h  J I have voiced some pretty weak opinions on this board, and I have receivedK some well deserved lashings (thank you Bill), but this board is where I gethL most of my "inside" knowledge.  Without Terry's input, I feel less informed.K I just wish I could afford his news letter, or that my boss would not laughtK when I ask her to buy it.  Why would they pay for a subscription that mighte- hurt their case to get rid of VMS altogether.   3 I would like to hear from others that feel as I do.bJ I would also like to hear some apologies from those that pissed off Terry.K I wouldn't expect them to say they were wrong,  just a word of appeasement.a  0 Of course, I would also like to hit the lottery.  J On another note, the reality is setting in.   (1) Alpha is dead.  (2) I amG going to go without at least one annual "Decus" trip for the first time H since the early 80s in Vegas.  I think I will be in deep depression nextE week, so any flames I get for this message will be of little relative- impact.-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:57:23 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Terry Shannon- Message-ID: <0033000034119708000002L082*@MHS>@  1 =0APerhaps his next newsletter should be entitled    'Shannon Knows MoreThanYouDo.'  . (note:  it's a collective you- if it came from%  the South it'd be 'MoreThanY'allDo'.s   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETu, > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:18 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: Terry Shannon >h >d< > Does anyone else on this board miss Terry Shannon?   I do. > $ > He wasn't always right.  (who is)?2 > He didn't always tell all he knew. (he couldn't)H > He couldn't speak  ill (too much or too frequently or too harshly) of=  9 > Compaq, even when he knew they deserved it (can you sayt > "burning bridges").a >s? > But he always had access to more info than I ever did, and hel > understood the7 > importance of it.  And he was always a VMS supporter.1< > There is a lot of bitterness on this board for people that > may not be ase8 > smart, or as informed, or most importantly of the same > opinion as the resto< > of you, but if we all agreed on everything, then the board > would be prettywH > boring and useless.  (That is also partly why I enjoy seeing Andrew's=  	 > posts).p >b> > I have voiced some pretty weak opinions on this board, and I > have receivede> > some well deserved lashings (thank you Bill), but this board > is where I get? > most of my "inside" knowledge.  Without Terry's input, I feela > less informed.= > I just wish I could afford his news letter, or that my bosst > would not laugh>5 > when I ask her to buy it.  Why would they pay for ac > subscription that might9/ > hurt their case to get rid of VMS altogether.  >r5 > I would like to hear from others that feel as I do.e: > I would also like to hear some apologies from those that > pissed off Terry.h= > I wouldn't expect them to say they were wrong,  just a wordd > of appeasement.l >o2 > Of course, I would also like to hit the lottery. >7< > On another note, the reality is setting in.   (1) Alpha is > dead.  (2) I am.> > going to go without at least one annual "Decus" trip for the > first time: > since the early 80s in Vegas.  I think I will be in deep > depression next H > week, so any flames I get for this message will be of little relative=  	 > impact.h >=   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:24:36 -0500 (CDT)r& From: Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org> Subject: Re: Terry Shannon- Message-ID: <01K7XP6UDWWE0006TI@SEMATECH.Org>t  ; >Does anyone else on this board miss Terry Shannon?   I do.u   [snip]  J Yes, I do.  I miss his insight and his humor.  I don't blame him for beingJ pissed off because of the flames slung his way lately.  I'd really like to hear his take on the HP buyout.b  L ============================================================================6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575 9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600  2706 Montopolis Drive K Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech.aB     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98 L ============================================================================   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:27:59 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: RE: Terry Shannon@ Message-ID: <20010904162759.92137.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  * I believe he should rename the newsletter:   "Shannon knows IBM"...  7 In the way the things are going, the first computing=20s+ company in the world will be the lastest to>( close/disappear ... at least until 2099.   Regardse   FC=20 / --- WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:  >=200 > Perhaps his next newsletter should be entitled >=20  > 'Shannon Knows MoreThanYouDo.' >=200 > (note:  it's a collective you- if it came from' >  the South it'd be 'MoreThanY'allDo'.d >=20 > WWWebb >=20 > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt. > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:18 AM$ > > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC;# > Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt > > Subject: Terry Shannon > >  > >i6 > > Does anyone else on this board miss Terry Shannon?	 >   I do.  > >a& > > He wasn't always right.  (who is)?4 > > He didn't always tell all he knew. (he couldn't)6 > > He couldn't speak  ill (too much or too frequently > or too harshly) of3 > > Compaq, even when he knew they deserved it (can 	 > you sayq > > "burning bridges").a > > 5 > > But he always had access to more info than I evert
 > did, and heo > > understood the. > > importance of it.  And he was always a VMS > supporter.2 > > There is a lot of bitterness on this board for
 > people that  > > may not be as 5 > > smart, or as informed, or most importantly of theg > same > > opinion as the rest 4 > > of you, but if we all agreed on everything, then > the boardy > > would be prettyi3 > > boring and useless.  (That is also partly why IM > enjoy seeing Andrew'si > > posts).l > > 3 > > I have voiced some pretty weak opinions on thisn > board, and I > > have receiveds5 > > some well deserved lashings (thank you Bill), but  > this board > > is where I get3 > > most of my "inside" knowledge.  Without Terry'sg > input, I feeli > > less informed.2 > > I just wish I could afford his news letter, or > that my boss > > would not laughd5 > > when I ask her to buy it.  Why would they pay forI > at > > subscription that mightr1 > > hurt their case to get rid of VMS altogether.l > >c3 > > I would like to hear from others that feel as Ii > do.p1 > > I would also like to hear some apologies from> > those that > > pissed off Terry.h5 > > I wouldn't expect them to say they were wrong,=20l
 > just a wordi > > of appeasement.e > >a4 > > Of course, I would also like to hit the lottery. > >e5 > > On another note, the reality is setting in.   (1)i
 > Alpha is > > dead.  (2) I amh3 > > going to go without at least one annual "Decus"t > trip for the > > first time4 > > since the early 80s in Vegas.  I think I will be	 > in deepe > > depression next 6 > > week, so any flames I get for this message will be > of little relative > > impact.E > >n     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D6L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilw fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:22:38 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>s Subject: Re: Terry Shannon( Message-ID: <9n32j7$7qv$1@pyrite.mv.net>  3 "Drew Shelton" <drew@sematech.org> wrote in messageu' news:01K7XP6UDWWE0006TI@SEMATECH.Org...r= > >Does anyone else on this board miss Terry Shannon?   I do." >  > [snip] >oL > Yes, I do.  I miss his insight and his humor.  I don't blame him for beingL > pissed off because of the flames slung his way lately.  I'd really like to! > hear his take on the HP buyout.a  I The problem with Terry for close to a year has been that rather than justcH being careful not to say too much ill of those who feed him information,I he's been actively in their hip pocket, promoting their views rather thanf+ conveying what unbiased information he can.i  L No apologies from this quarter, I'm afraid.  But I also miss what he used to be.'   - bill   >  >iL ============================================================================8 > Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org; > VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575m; > Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600a > 2706 Montopolis DrivetC > Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, notw	 Sematech.mD >     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"K >                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98t > L ============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:39:28 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r$ Subject: The Inquirer's initial take8 Message-ID: <c7f9ptocqn86u0ilqgbd79av5i5m42g9rs@4ax.com>  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/04090101.htmh   Selected quote:b  F "Our goal is to transform Compaq, and to do it over the next 180 days" - Mike Capellasa  C MIKE CAPELLAS' remainining ninety days of woe took a different turnmE late yesterday after HP announced it was buying Compaq for around $26y billion or so.  F It makes the whole affair so much simpler, now that Compaq has got ridC of its extraneous baggage - read peoples' jobs and top technology - 9 that we wonder it took Capellas so long to dispose of it.o  > We wonder what's goung to become of Terry Shannon. He edited aE newsletter called Shannon knows DEC, then adapted and started ShannonlC knows COMPAQ. Surely he won't be changing it to Shannon knows HP? s     The Inquirer  2001 Breakthrough  Publishing Ltd   All rights reserved.  ' Discuss this story on our Message ForumV
 Back to Frontt         -- Alan   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 07:08:43 -0600 (MDT)" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> Subject: Timeline>F Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109040703120.1820-100000@athena.csdco.com>  J From what has been posted here and in the Register and Inquirer it appearsJ that the decision to port VMS was made while negotiations between HP and Q
 were ongoing.d  G I'd like to hear Terry's take on this, but the implication is that it'sh' part of the plan, barely, but in there.o   Feel free to correct me :)  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:24:06 GMTu& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> Subject: Re: Timelinem9 Message-ID: <WB4l7.7710$Op6.1518491@typhoon1.gnilink.net>t  , Compaq claims the timeline was as follows...  $     1) Compaq decides to move to IPF  /     2) HP contacts Compaq about licensing HP-UXi  2     3) HP-UX discussion triggers merger discussion  L ...Compaq said nothing about there being any cause and effect between #1 andJ #2 but did say there was a cause and effect between #2 and #3.  There willK be those in this newsgroup who will claim this is not true - the fact is no C one who is likely to post in this newsgroup was a party to this andiK therefore no one can say with authority what happened.  Someone will reportdF what has been said and others in the black helicopter crowd will claim= otherwise.  At least the account above sounds very plausible..  I For those who have been following Compaq's strategy announcements for thepJ last 6 months Unix and Services were key to all those announcements.  OnceL one keys in on that the above scenario rings true and the strategy pre-dates	 events...       / "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in messageG@ news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0109040703120.1820-100000@athena.csdco.com... > L > From what has been posted here and in the Register and Inquirer it appearsL > that the decision to port VMS was made while negotiations between HP and Q > were ongoing.i >.I > I'd like to hear Terry's take on this, but the implication is that it'se) > part of the plan, barely, but in there.e >i > Feel free to correct me :) >t > John Nebel >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:04:08 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: Timelines8 Message-ID: <son9pt883p232ptpqrv83oapickq7g6nci@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 07:08:43 -0600 (MDT), John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>u wrote:   > K >From what has been posted here and in the Register and Inquirer it appearsaK >that the decision to port VMS was made while negotiations between HP and QP >were ongoing.  B Yes, seems like it. Suggests HP may have ok'd it. I don't know yet what to read into this.a  H >I'd like to hear Terry's take on this, but the implication is that it's( >part of the plan, barely, but in there. >i >Feel free to correct me :), >  >John Nebel    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:13:45 +0100/% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>H Subject: Re: Timelines8 Message-ID: <2rn9pt0cbgte8dd1rm7ki4a6nn6f4hif2o@4ax.com>  B On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:24:06 GMT, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:  - >Compaq claims the timeline was as follows...n >a% >    1) Compaq decides to move to IPFv >f0 >    2) HP contacts Compaq about licensing HP-UX >l3 >    3) HP-UX discussion triggers merger discussioni    B Bollocks!!!!! Where did you get that from? Capellas and Carly haveE said in the conf-call/webcast that they have been discussing this forsF *many* months (more than three on an extremely serious basis accordingC to Capellas) and that some discussions started as long as 18 months E ago. Some questioners have tried to tie down a date but they wouldn'tpF budge on that point except to say they've been talking for a long timeC and saw possibilities 18 months ago. Carly said she was amazed theysC were able to discuss it for so long without a leak. Except maybe tow  analyst  Andrew Neff in January?  C Actually I suppose your timeline could be correct in a 'conspiracy'qD mode if you assume that Compaq decided to move to IPF two years ago./ If that's what you are suggesting then I agree.s  M >...Compaq said nothing about there being any cause and effect between #1 andyK >#2 but did say there was a cause and effect between #2 and #3.  There will L >be those in this newsgroup who will claim this is not true - the fact is noD >one who is likely to post in this newsgroup was a party to this andL >therefore no one can say with authority what happened.  Someone will report  B I'm sorry but Michael Capellas and Carly Fiorina just have said so with authority.n    G >what has been said and others in the black helicopter crowd will claim > >otherwise.  At least the account above sounds very plausible.   If you are gullible yes..M   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:11:45 GMT7& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> Subject: Re: Timelineo4 Message-ID: <Ra6l7.6$Vx1.30213@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:2rn9pt0cbgte8dd1rm7ki4a6nn6f4hif2o@4ax.com...D > On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:24:06 GMT, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> > wrote: >t/ > >Compaq claims the timeline was as follows...y > > ' > >    1) Compaq decides to move to IPFh > >e2 > >    2) HP contacts Compaq about licensing HP-UX > >p5 > >    3) HP-UX discussion triggers merger discussionr >o > D > Bollocks!!!!! Where did you get that from? Capellas and Carly haveG > said in the conf-call/webcast that they have been discussing this fornH > *many* months (more than three on an extremely serious basis accordingE > to Capellas) and that some discussions started as long as 18 monthsiG > ago. Some questioners have tried to tie down a date but they wouldn'taH > budge on that point except to say they've been talking for a long timeE > and saw possibilities 18 months ago. Carly said she was amazed theyfE > were able to discuss it for so long without a leak. Except maybe tot" > analyst  Andrew Neff in January? >sE > Actually I suppose your timeline could be correct in a 'conspiracy' F > mode if you assume that Compaq decided to move to IPF two years ago.1 > If that's what you are suggesting then I agree.e  G I will listen to the conference a little later but Capellas said in thee stuff I saw was...  > 1) The IPF decision was made before any discussion of a merger  B 2) He and Carly had been both on a personal and professional levelL discussing and working together on various issues during the past 18 months.  F 3) That what trigger the merger discussion was Carly suggesting Compaq license HP-UX.  I Did you actually hear one of them say they had been discussion the merger K for the last 18 months?  Or are you _assuming_ that if they had discussions.0 over 18 months it must have been about a merger?  K > >...Compaq said nothing about there being any cause and effect between #1t and H > >#2 but did say there was a cause and effect between #2 and #3.  There willK > >be those in this newsgroup who will claim this is not true - the fact isg noF > >one who is likely to post in this newsgroup was a party to this andG > >therefore no one can say with authority what happened.  Someone will@ report >mD > I'm sorry but Michael Capellas and Carly Fiorina just have said so > with authority.r  F I will listen but that will be at odds with what was said elsewhere...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:24:23 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: Timelinek8 Message-ID: <s2s9ptgtv0j73gou9j0cp3drvrbta70g5m@4ax.com>  B On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:11:45 GMT, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:      J >Did you actually hear one of them say they had been discussion the mergerL >for the last 18 months?  Or are you _assuming_ that if they had discussions1 >over 18 months it must have been about a merger?p  E They said they had discussed the merger for "many months" (Carly) andeC greater than "three months" Michael. They said that they recognizedlB the possibilities very early on. Unlike some other deals they saidC that this one had been worked out in detail between the two of themeD long before anyone else knew. A question from the 'floor' at the endE tried to get them to be more specific but all they would say was that C they couldn't give an exact date when mutual admiration turned intoaE merger - it just happened sometime between three months and 18 monthst ago.    E >> I'm sorry but Michael Capellas and Carly Fiorina just have said sol >> with authority. >lG >I will listen but that will be at odds with what was said elsewhere...a  B And as I've suggested the two accounts are consistent if the AlphaC decision was taken considerably earlier than currently admitted. At F least some strong evidence points to it being taken around the time of the end of Alpha/NT.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:58:18 GMTn& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> Subject: Re: Timelinen6 Message-ID: <_C8l7.68$Vx1.148160@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:s2s9ptgtv0j73gou9j0cp3drvrbta70g5m@4ax.com...D > On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:11:45 GMT, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> > wrote: >t >< >wL > >Did you actually hear one of them say they had been discussion the mergerB > >for the last 18 months?  Or are you _assuming_ that if they had discussionss3 > >over 18 months it must have been about a merger?  >dG > They said they had discussed the merger for "many months" (Carly) andlE > greater than "three months" Michael. They said that they recognized=D > the possibilities very early on. Unlike some other deals they saidE > that this one had been worked out in detail between the two of themaF > long before anyone else knew. A question from the 'floor' at the endG > tried to get them to be more specific but all they would say was that6E > they couldn't give an exact date when mutual admiration turned intoSG > merger - it just happened sometime between three months and 18 months  > ago.   After listening to the tape...  F Carly did say "many months" and it was in the context of responding toF newspaper reports of them working together.  In other words it was theK context of their working relationship and not statement as to how long theyu worked on the merger.n  H They also said they recognized they had a shared vision early on and theL possibilities where IT was headed.  This was in the context of seeing people0 moving from hotbox buys to end to end solutions.  K Michael did especially state that the decision to rationalize on the single9K platform (retire Alpha) "was made without knowing this was coming and looks= even better now"  J They did respond to a "when did this start question" - the response was itJ started when Carly contacted Michael over licensing intellectual property. They gave no time frame.  J Alan I agree the time line is very tight - if they have been talking aboutF an actual merger for more than 3 months the numbers don't add up.  OneL assumes the IPF decision was made in very late May or very early June.  I boI ils down to one issue - do you believe Capellas is a liar? If so then yousL can discount his statement the decision was made before hand.  I am sure theJ black helicopter will see this a Compaq made a deal with HP that if Compaq$ dumps Alpha HP would acquire them...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:51:33 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: TSM on VMS V7.3- Message-ID: <3B948805.36322E59@volkswagen.de>   7 Hs anybody tried using TSM (V2.1-07) with OpenVMS V7.3.   [ The installation fails with unsupported DECnet/VMS Version, but when upgrading a VMS system,% with TSM installed, TSm seems to run.  --    - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl Rohwedder               hC iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig tA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 E  E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.de  +          karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.des DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:06:07 +0200 < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com> Subject: Re: TSM on VMS V7.3( Message-ID: <3B948B6F.B84E27D9@home.com>  0 Is this the (now free) Terminal Server Manager ?3 I hope that someone at Compaq can take this versiont& test out of the kit if it runs anyway.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   Karl Rohwedder wrote:  > 9 > Hs anybody tried using TSM (V2.1-07) with OpenVMS V7.3.s > ] > The installation fails with unsupported DECnet/VMS Version, but when upgrading a VMS systeml' > with TSM installed, TSm seems to run.  > --   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 04:35:11 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>l Subject: Re: TSM on VMS V7.3: Message-ID: <6i0l7.8269$A24.1625139@news20.bellglobal.com>  D Yes TSM is free. For more info (including the license) please check:L http://www.compaq.com/support/digital_networks_archive/servers/tsm/index.htm lm  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,a Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/3  6 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@home.com> wrote in message" news:3B948B6F.B84E27D9@home.com...2 > Is this the (now free) Terminal Server Manager ?5 > I hope that someone at Compaq can take this version=( > test out of the kit if it runs anyway. >3 > Jan-Erik Sderholm._ >_ > Karl Rohwedder wrote:_ > >o; > > Hs anybody tried using TSM (V2.1-07) with OpenVMS V7.3.s > > H > > The installation fails with unsupported DECnet/VMS Version, but when upgrading a VMS system) > > with TSM installed, TSm seems to run.b > > --   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:46:22 +0200m: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: TSM on VMS V7.3- Message-ID: <3B9494DE.138CE908@volkswagen.de>r  . Yes, it is the now free TerminalServerManager.  L I have 'patched' the installation kit to use the VMS V7.2 OLB's for linking.  U The kit then installs fine :-), the IVP runs correctly but since my test system is ink] a IP-only LAN segment, I can only TEST unreachable servers, which shows 'server unreachable'.s   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t > 2 > Is this the (now free) Terminal Server Manager ?5 > I hope that someone at Compaq can take this versiona( > test out of the kit if it runs anyway. >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.i >  > Karl Rohwedder wrote:a > >B; > > Hs anybody tried using TSM (V2.1-07) with OpenVMS V7.3.= > >=_ > > The installation fails with unsupported DECnet/VMS Version, but when upgrading a VMS system ) > > with TSM installed, TSm seems to run.a > > --   --    - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl Rohwedder               6C iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig  A Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843aE  E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.de  +          karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.de/ DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 06:19:35 GMT-3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)9% Subject: Re: Tunneling DECnet over IPi, Message-ID: <9n1rpn$5pt@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ) In article <3B93F9C9.476ABD19@intel.com>,4; Kenneth H. Fairfield <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com> wrote: A >The upshot is that, for wide-area DECnet, you need either a pairo? >of DECnet-Plus nodes on the either end, or a pair of "PhaseIP"iA >nodes on either end, but you can NOT have DECnet-Plus on one endr3 >and PhaseIP on the other; they won't interoperate.i    D   You didn't mention the DECnet-over-IP circuit that Multinet offersA which is different from PhaseIP.  PhaseIP is more like the DECnetpA protocol using an IP connection but the DECnet-over-IP circuit iso* DECnet packets encapsulated in IP packets.  I   If you have two DECnet networks with a Phase IV router running MultineteE on each which are connected by a DECnet-over-IP circuit, then it acts D like one large DECnet network.  The DECnet routers route the trafficG through the circuit.  The other DECnet machines in either network don'tVF need to run Multinet or even be on the Internet, only the routers that- have the connection to both networks need it.m   -- Vance Haemmerlec vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:40:16 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>d) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issuesp3 Message-ID: <rJ5l7.1174$bB1.47606@news.cpqcorp.net>   J The problem with executables is that depending on what language and linkerJ options were used, it can be very difficult to determine what is code, and
 what is data.n  8 If it comes back clean - the SMP problem is NOT present.  J If you run the program and find Compaq supplied images reporting potentialE problems, the odds are very high that what happened is that data in aoK section marked executable was evaluated.  We cleaned up the very few placesoH that there were problems (mostly in threads and in SMP synchronization).  J The program is there to evaluate *your* code.  The actions you should takeL if you find a potential problem is to get the map and listing files and findJ the code in question.  Unless you are doing atomic operations - like C asmH sections, you should be OK.  The other big offender was a very old Bliss	 compiler.a   _Fred   @ Kenneth wrote in message <9mugkj$qlc1@imsp212.netvigator.com>...J >I have scan all the executable in the system. However, some of the systemH >binaries will return me the "Potential Alpha Violation" (I am using VMSJ >7.2-1). And what Compaq reply me that this is only a freeware only, so...F >and they have certified the compatibility of VMS 7.2-1 on EV6. So the resultL >is if it returns error, it doesn't necessarily an error, and if it does notD >returns an error, it does not mean it really have no error. And the+ >conclusion is the tool is not much useful.0 >0 >h7 >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messagedL >news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4D49603@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net.. .e7 >> As a fyi, the program John is referring to is called. >> sys$system:SRM_CHECK.EXEt >>= >> Additional information can be found at: (Section 8 pg.8-1)  >>L >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_73_REL_NOT E- >> S.pdf >> >> Regards,  >>
 >> Kerry Main  >> Senior Consultant >> Compaq Canada Corp. >> Professional Services >> Voice: 613-592-4660 >> Fax  :  819-772-7036a >> Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com  >> >> >> -----Original Message-----e* >> From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com]" >> Sent: September 1, 2001 8:05 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >> Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 compatibility issues >> >>% >> On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Kenneth wrote:n >>L >> > I am using EV5 processor and want to upgrade to EV6 (21264a) processor.K >> > Compaq says I need to recompile my C program with the C version 6.0 oroA >> > above. Does anyone out there has the problem in running your  applicationc >> in,H >> > EV6 which is compile with C below 6.0? Or do you have encounter any >third5 >> > party product which is not compatiable with EV6?g >>F >> Normally, no you don't have to recompile.  However, there was a bugC >> in some old compilers (actually in the GEM optimizer) that couldeE >> generate incorrect code sequences.  These sequences worked fine onnG >> EV5 and before, but could break on an EV6.  The newer compilers havepF >> this bug fixed, so recompiling guarantees it won't bite you.  ThereF >> is also a program you can run which will scan an image and tell youI >> if the invalid code sequences occur.  (It can get false positives fromiJ >> data that looks like code.)  I can't remember the name of this program,3 >> but it should be in the V7.0-V7.2 release notes.  >>F >> If you are only intending to run your programs on your new EV6, youD >> can recompile with the right optimization switches and get betterD >> performance.  (If you optimize for EV6 and run the resulting .EXEA >> on EV5, it will work, but it might be slower than it would runk& >> un-optimized or optimized for EV5.) >>D >> Generally 3rd party products are compiled without optimization orD >> with generic optimizations, to get performance that is acceptableD >> everywhere rather than great performance on some systems and poorB >> performance on others.  Something that is specifically intendedB >> for high performance might be shipped either as source (compileC >> on-site) or as multiple object libraries optimized for differenttD >> systems, or as multiple .EXE's.  We usually ship object libraries >> for the most flexibility. >> >> --  >> John Santos >> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.l >> 781-861-0670 ext 539  >h >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:06:11 -0400a# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>e* Subject: Re: VMS'er Announces Java Product+ Message-ID: <3B94D1C3.56D7D56C@hsc.vcu.edu>.  9 Congratulations!!!!!  espcially on making it so open...  -   Don Sykes wrote: > H > I know this is off topic, but since I've been a VMS developer for > 15F > years, I think I'm entitled to this one time posting. Besides it was% > tested on VMS, as well as M$/NT/98.  > I > You can download a free, or evaluation copy from my OpenVMS website at: # > http://alphase.com/aex/Order.htmle > ' > -------------------------------------  > J > ALPHA SOFTWARE EXPRESS, LLC  LAUNCHES ITS FLAGSHIP JAVA SOFTWARE PRODUCTB > FOR GENERAL DESIGN WORK AND MANAGEMENT OF CAD/CAM/CAE DOCUMENTS. > $ > SAN RAFAEL, CA -- Aug. 28, 2001 --G > Alpha Software Express, a supplier of OpenVMS and Java based softwarepJ > today announced the formal launch of its flagship product for the designI > and management of drawings primarily, but not exclusively, intended fors > engineering markets. > D > CAD Object Manager - Version 1.0, provides an inexpensive means toJ > create and manage engineering and architectural designs. Its unique JavaJ > implementation allows it to run on virtually any platform - e.g. Windows@ > 95/98/NT/XP, Linux, Mac OS, OpenVMS, etc. It provides documentH > management functions, like drawing check-out and check-in, as well as,: > user ownership features like privilege token assignment. > D > Using this product, each object included in a design may be eitherI > simple (a circle, image, etc.) or complex (a set of simple objects tiednE > together as a single unit). Complex objects can also have names andC  > other user defined attributes. > E > With CAD Object Manager many users can take part in the design of a G > product without fear of others, inappropriately, altering their work.sF > This is provided by assigning specific protections to each and every/ > object as well as to the document as a whole.C > E > Costs are variable, depending upon the features selected and future F > licensing options. During this introductory period only, the versionG > with the fewest features and options is available for free. A versionvI > with all possible features and options costs  $500. It can be purchasedaE > and downloaded on line at http://alphase.com/aex/Announcement.html.n > @ > "This is the first, full CAD application available on the JavaI > platform... I am very excited about this new area of opportunity", saidt. > Don Sykes, the company's principal engineer. > G > Abdullah Ahmed-Falol, Supervisor of Public Safety Systems in Oakland,eH > CA, added, "I am glad ... you were able to bring CAD Object Manager toI > completion. ... The Oakland Police CAD System, which you designed, is atJ > living proof that your design and software delivery is impeccable, and IB > am sure your new software release will be one of a kind. Bravo." > # > About Alpha Software Express, LLCv > I > Incorporated in 2000, Alpha Software Express was a natural outgrowth ofi/ > Alpha Software Engineering founded in 1992 toaF > provide OpenVMS application services to a variety of customers, likeA > Digital Equipment, Borland International and the Oakland PoliceoJ > Department. The system we designed and developed for the Oakland PD backE > in 1992 continues to provide highly reliable 911 emergency dispatche( > operations today, on a 24x7x365 basis. >  > About Don Sykest > G > As a Bay Area software engineer and application developer for over 25wD > years, Don Sykes has provided significant software support to such/ > companies as: Bechtel Group, Bank of America,eB > S&W Foods, Oracle, United Airlines and American President Lines.H > He also developed and installed CAD software for such clients as Shell/ > Oil(UK), Hong Kong Electric and Dow Chemical.h >  > Visit: www.alphase.com.I > 
 > CONTACT: > Alpha Software Express > 1380 Lincoln Ave > 415-457-8532 > ase@alphase.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:27:23 -0400s. From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com>1 Subject: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeede. Message-ID: <3B950EFB.E2E0094D@cablespeed.com>  H Now, maybe, with this merger, maybe, maybe some of the business types at" Compaq will be seeking employment!  E Wishful thinking that HP may actually possibly market and try to grow<@ the OpenVMS market place.  I know nothing of HP, but maybe their( business types are better than Compaq's!  D Or it could just be dealing with the devil you don't know instead ofH dealing with the devil you do...  But the devil we do know surely wasn'tE fitting the bill when it comes to OpenVMS.  Perhaps HP will have earsoE AND will listen or maybe they'll just come out and say - migrate fromh OpenVMS to something else.  ! Could it be - OpenVMS on PA-RISC?    Well, for now, I'm dancin'   Chuck McCrobie   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:28:52 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>h; Subject: Re: Why did compaq buy Digital in the first place?e2 Message-ID: <8siUO6v6CQ0tEai+1ijT2Ev=WW96@4ax.com>  ( Looks like you are getting your wish ...  = On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:31:31 GMT, peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Petere Watkinson) wrote:t   >  >b >oG >VMS and Tru64 need to be sold to someone who knows how to take care ofcD >a niche product better. If Alpha is a non-exclusive deal with Intel3 >bring that back to and continue the port to Ia64. . >  >e >i >n >  >Peter Watkinson >peterw@u.genie.co.ukt >http://www.pwnavigate.com/ & >http://www.windsurf-international.com >http://you.genie.co.uk/peterw/o% >http://www.freerider-classifieds.comg   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:31:32 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>v@ Subject: Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server?3 Message-ID: <eB5l7.1173$bB1.47543@news.cpqcorp.net>x   Have you filed a bug report?    . Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote in message' <00A015CC.96181474@SendSpamHere.ORG>...i4 >In article <z%Sj7.1077$bB1.45935@news.cpqcorp.net>,4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:< >>In article <3B8F8EBD.6D9EF51A@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman$ <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:' >>:Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:t >>:>B >>:> I downloaded the 0.9.3 Mozilla, installed it, and started it. >>:>- >>:> Poof.  DECWindows server still bugs out.h >>:>B >>:> Any chance of ever getting a newer working browser for VMS??? >>:eJ >>:I'm still willing to help you debug why it does that.  I've got mozillaI >>:running on at least 10 different systems and the DECwindows server has   >>:never crashed on any of them. >> >>K >>  I too have not seen the Mozilla browser stackdump DECwindows -- while IhC >>  have occasionally seen Netscape Navigator take out OpenVMS, the 	 incidence J >>  of that once-a-month bucheck has been greatly reduced (or eliminated?)L >>  after I have applied various ECOs -- I haven't seen one of these crashesJ >>  in months.  (The bugcheck was a machine check, and apparently involved! >>  the graphics device drivers.)V >>4 >>  OpenVMS version, platform, graphics widget, etc? >l > J >OpenVMS V7.2-1, AlphaStation 200 4/233, ZLXp-E3, 384MB RAM, lots and lotsE >of SCSI disk space, and entire RZ29B devoted to pagefile, DECWindows  V1.2-5,-J >TCP/IP 5.0A, and SYSGEN and SYSTEM processes quotas at rediculous levels.K >We've gone through this exercise with every version of Mozilla and never anJ >solution.   I also ran Mozilla on another machine with the display set toK >the AS200 4/233 described above and the DECW server crashes.  Resources...  >I don't think so. >= >--83 >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001T VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >3J >  "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fieryJ >  intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes >f   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:51:48 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) @ Subject: Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server?0 Message-ID: <00A018C0.71097A1B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <eB5l7.1173$bB1.47543@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  >Have you filed a bug report?   G With DECompaq?  No.  There has been a report of this with nearly every l+ incarnation/release of Mozilla for OpenVMS.o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            sJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbeso   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:14:37 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o@ Subject: Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server?3 Message-ID: <_57l7.1187$bB1.47740@news.cpqcorp.net>l  . Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote in message' <00A018C0.71097A1B@SendSpamHere.ORG>... F >In article <eB5l7.1173$bB1.47543@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:M >>Have you filed a bug report? > G >With DECompaq?  No.  There has been a report of this with nearly every0, >incarnation/release of Mozilla for OpenVMS. >@   >w  K Do you have any information from previous reports?  Who was your contact ate Compaq for the bug report?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 03:32:12 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqt( Message-ID: <9n2008$7vh$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:wPnHyUluL3x5@eisner.encompasserve.org...oJ > In article <gurman-520E88.23474703092001@news.crosslink.net>, "Joseph B.  Gurman" <gurman@ari.net> writes:   ...s  J > >     Right. I can't see why this makes sense for anyone: both companiesI > > have huge PC inventories no one wants, server sales are off, and lookw6 > > what happened when Compaq tried to digest Digital. > >u >r& > Compaq got great stuff with Digital.  H It sure did.  And proceded to trash most of it.  NT on Alpha, then AlphaH itself.  Some of the knives in the back for VMS stopped, but no one evenJ bandaged the wounds let alone performed any active rehabilitiation.  Tru64G got a small amount of attention and started to grow noticeably, but not J enough to be worth considering protecting Alpha for.  Storage has recentlyL been getting exactly the wrong kinds of attention, and the services businessL that was supposedly a large part of the reason for the DEC acquisition is noC star performer (unless you compare it with other Compaq disasters).    >  It was necessary.  F It certainly was necessary for DEC, to keep Palmer from riding it intoE Chapter 11.  It may even have been necessary for Compaq - but only ifuH Pfeiffer had been allowed to capitalize on the acquired assets, which he wasn't.   
   ProbablyA > as necessary as this merger.  Offline much of these issues have C > been discussed by rank amateurs.  Essentially, a merger like thisn
 > was forced.   I Not if Compaq hadn't been so unbelievably incompetent in managing what it J already owned.  That's what makes the comparison to the DEC acquisition so appropriate.  6   PCs are killing folks.  Dell is responsible for thisF > merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/CompaqC > may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be ae > big plus.c  K Bullshit.  More like two non-swimmers pulling each other down in the middleeH of a lake, when if separated they might have had at least some chance of floundering to shore.u   ...o  @ > The engineering talent in a combined HP/Compaq is an excellent( > thing.  This should be a great merger.  L Guess you must figure this news is almost as good as the Alphacide was.  AndI I suspect you'll be about equally effective in convincing the rest of us.o   - bill   >j > Rob: >S   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:19:26 +0100& From: "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqp3 Message-ID: <9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>e  4 "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@ari.net> wrote in message7 news:gurman-520E88.23474703092001@news.crosslink.net...p% >     Just saw this story on CNN.com.r >rH >     VERY odd, after seeing at least one (if not several) business-pageB > columns adivisng HP to get out of the PC and server business andC > concentrate on their core business --- printers. But I guess thatn/ > wouldn't be big enough for Ms. Fiorina's ego.e > F >     My first reaction on seeing the news was that the worst large PCG > company, Dell, and the next to worst large unix company, Sun, will besC > the only ones left standing if there are a couple of bad years to  follow.dF > I can only shudder to think what people who couldn't figure out what to# > do with HP will think of OpenVMS.c  F I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will still7 make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though.t   >oC >     In the interests of full disclosure, a couple of weeks ago, Ip endedhF > 14 years of VMS workstation use when I replaced a 660au with a Power Maci? > G4/867. (We still have a couple of other OVMS workstations in,D > mission-critical functions and an OVMS server.) I can't think of aC > reason for looking back, especially if this marriage takes place.t >tC > > Hewlett-Packard is likely to get some tough questions from Wallo Street.iF > > Its credibility is already shaky, and becoming the world's biggest maker ofE > > PC at a time when the personal-computer market is suffering would> probablyF > > prompt some analysts to scratch their heads. Integrating two giant
 > > companies>G > > would be a distraction for management and could leave rank-and-fileLD > > employees wondering about surviving the inevitable cost cutting. >lH >     Right. I can't see why this makes sense for anyone: both companiesG > have huge PC inventories no one wants, server sales are off, and look 4 > what happened when Compaq tried to digest Digital. >lF >     I guess when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping.... for > competitors. >e >     Bewildered,p >b >                   Joe Gurman  F By combining the HP and Compaq PC business, and making huge cost cuts,F it is likely that the PC business sector will break even.  As you knowF Compaq is a lot more than a PC builder.  Compaq have great technology,? both hardware and software, especially at the enterprise level.>F Unfortunately the Compaq name has continued to be much more associatedF with PCs and Proliant servers, than Alphaservers and Himalaya servers.G Also, until recently, it seemed that Compaq didn't know what to do withoA it's enterprise technology and services.  Hopefully under HP, then3 enterprise business will have a better stewardship.eA Also, remember that HP had a big hand in the development of IA64.rD Basically they bet their high end server business on this.  With theG Compaq/Intel deal, ex Alpha engineers will have a big say in the futurem@ development of IA64.  Future IA64 processors should have all theD features HP and Compaq want.  A combined HP and Compaq should enableH IA64 to make big inroads into Sun SPARC and IBM Power4 server sales.  InH the hardware business, server sales, especially at the high end, is were" good margins are still being made.   So this is my take on things: > PCs and Wintel servers - consolidation of models.  Will become= profitable again.  This should provide good DELL competition.sB UNIX - I can't see a future for separate HP-UX and Tru64 operatingG systems.  I guess they will merge over time into one OS.  How this fits>F in with the port of Tru64 from Alpha to IA64 is interesting.  The factF that UX already runs on IA64 may be an indicator of a future strategy;A add Tru64 capabilities/compatibility on top of UX?  Sun should ber nervous about this.hG OpenVMS - I guess that the IA64 port will still go ahead.  I cannot see 6 OpenVMS being actively developed in the future though.E Himalaya - HP don't have an equivalent product.  I think this will bebD the least affected business unit.  Hopefully, HP will accelerate theF resurgence of this platform.  Himalaya can take business away from Sun= and IBM at the high end.  Just look at the recent Sabre deal.c   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 05:38:23 -05003- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq 3 Message-ID: <c6++ipTJBb9o@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com> writes:  H > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will still9 > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though.   B I am not inclined to place much faith in someone who does not sign their name.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:11:34 GMTP& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy CompaqA7 Message-ID: <Wx3l7.174$8x1.252150@typhoon2.gnilink.net>   8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:wPnHyUluL3x5@eisner.encompasserve.org...o > Dell is responsible for thisF > merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/CompaqC > may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be as > big plus.   L Dell likely forced the day of recognizing for both Compaq and HP.  It placedH both in the position of either having to dramatically shrink (by pullingD back their PC business) or do something drastic.  But what is likelyH responsible for the merger is Unix.  Compaq's strategy required a strong< data center Unix and Tru64 wasn't getting there fast enough.  < DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. now has a truly credible...       - Unix Platformm     - Storage Solution     - Mainframe Class Platform     - Services Group     - Mangement Software     - PC PlatformC     - Handheld Platformt     - Printer business  E ...hopefully DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. will be smart enough toiL develop a culture that lets it star strategic technologies rise to their ownK level without, having them held back by legacy tactical technologies, whileoL allowing the legacy tactical technologies to function as a business on theirL own.  Digital was never very good at this.  IBM has always been very good at this...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:39:28 +0100e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqd* Message-ID: <3B94CB80.D544FF7B@uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > k > In article <gurman-520E88.23474703092001@news.crosslink.net>, "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@ari.net> writes:e' > >     Just saw this story on CNN.com.e > >aJ > >     VERY odd, after seeing at least one (if not several) business-pageD > > columns adivisng HP to get out of the PC and server business andE > > concentrate on their core business --- printers. But I guess thatD1 > > wouldn't be big enough for Ms. Fiorina's ego.t > >oH > >     My first reaction on seeing the news was that the worst large PCI > > company, Dell, and the next to worst large unix company, Sun, will beEM > > the only ones left standing if there are a couple of bad years to follow.oK > > I can only shudder to think what people who couldn't figure out what ton% > > do with HP will think of OpenVMS.f > >oH >         This is so funny.  I'm sitting here chuckling.  Their combinedE >         revenues are $87 billion dollars.  It will take a decade ofdF >         screw-ups and tremendous Sun growth to reach parity.  Relax. >   C Do you remember HP's purchase of Apollo. Prior to HP buying Apollo  C Sun was the largest Workstation vendor, Apollo second and HP third.vC After the purchase the combined HP/Apollo workstation division was tE the largest workstation vendor for only 1 quarter and 18 months into O@ the deal all HP had ended up doing was eliminating a competitor.  @ This may not happen in this case but it is also highly unlikely > that the combined HP-Compaq revenues will be equal to the sum = of the parts. It has never happened in the past, either with n Compaq->Digital or with Unisys.l     Regards  Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architect,   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:04:07 -0500e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqb3 Message-ID: <6UFonqOD$k44@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  R In article <9n2008$7vh$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:   >  >>  It was necessary.s > H > It certainly was necessary for DEC, to keep Palmer from riding it intoG > Chapter 11.  It may even have been necessary for Compaq - but only if J > Pfeiffer had been allowed to capitalize on the acquired assets, which he	 > wasn't.. >  >   ProbablyB >> as necessary as this merger.  Offline much of these issues haveD >> been discussed by rank amateurs.  Essentially, a merger like this >> was forced. > K > Not if Compaq hadn't been so unbelievably incompetent in managing what it L > already owned.  That's what makes the comparison to the DEC acquisition so > appropriate. >   B 	Actually, here is the reasoning from today's Wall Street Journal:  @ 	"But with their stocks near lows, neither has the werewithal toE 	match IBM or the specialist services companies such as EDS.  In manyyF 	ways, executives may have felt they had no alternative but to combine	 	forces.".  G 	We can disagree with the thinking and it is speculation.... but littledB 	else makes for a good story.  I'm sure they will have their story 	to tell when the dust settles.     8 >   PCs are killing folks.  Dell is responsible for thisG >> merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/Compaq/D >> may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be a >> big plus. > M > Bullshit.  More like two non-swimmers pulling each other down in the middle-J > of a lake, when if separated they might have had at least some chance of > floundering to shore.j >   > 	Well... that's not Wall Street's read.  Maybe you can pick up$ 	the paper and read it for yourself.   > ...  > A >> The engineering talent in a combined HP/Compaq is an excellentn) >> thing.  This should be a great merger.R > N > Guess you must figure this news is almost as good as the Alphacide was.  AndK > I suspect you'll be about equally effective in convincing the rest of us., >   A 	I don't have to.  If it is a done deal, we live with it , right?r   				Rob-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:01:25 -0500d9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)s- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq 3 Message-ID: <e$VgoFSR+e18@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  a In article <bFxifxyuCz12@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:tl > In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010903222336.00aaa008@ntbsod.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:8 >> OK, Terry and/or Sue - what does it all mean...?????? >> a >  > Terry, >  >  > 	Shannon Knows Digital > 	Shannon Knows Compaqa > 	Shannon Flat out Knows!  (*)r   	Shannon, NO DEC   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 14:17:00 GMT # From: dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com - Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaql+ Message-ID: <9n2nos$nck$1@bob.news.rcn.net>V  W On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:55:57 GMT, in comp.os.vms, Jeff Killeen <Jeff@idm-io.com> wrote:t# > Hewlett-Packard Agrees to Acquirel > Compaq Computer in Stock Swap,6 > By NIKHIL DEOGUN, GARY MCWILLIAMS and MOLLY WILLIAMS, > Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL  C Let me be the first to suggest a new name for the combined company:i	   cHomPaqr? capitalization as shown.  It would always be abbreviated as HP.a   -- m? Dale Dellutri -- dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com (no Q's, no X's)a   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:20:26 -0500-9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)A- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy CompaqI3 Message-ID: <bhA$comH7DdD@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  a In article <bFxifxyuCz12@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:-l > In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010903222336.00aaa008@ntbsod.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:8 >> OK, Terry and/or Sue - what does it all mean...?????? >> W >  > Terry, >  >  > 	Shannon Knows Digital > 	Shannon Knows Compaq< > 	Shannon Flat out Knows!  (*). >  > 			Rob >  > ' > (*)  Saves on letterhead and whatnot!     L Speaking of which, it would seem that Shannon hasn't known anything since 10I July, or at least hasn't sent out any newsletters since then. Unless I've- fallen off his list somehow...   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 09:36:28 -0500A9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)o- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqw3 Message-ID: <J+zzXXMrdvdk@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ` In article <Wx3l7.174$8x1.252150@typhoon2.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:N > Dell likely forced the day of recognizing for both Compaq and HP.  It placedJ > both in the position of either having to dramatically shrink (by pullingF > back their PC business) or do something drastic.  But what is likelyJ > responsible for the merger is Unix.  Compaq's strategy required a strong> > data center Unix and Tru64 wasn't getting there fast enough. > > > DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. now has a truly credible... >  >     - Unix Platformr >     - Storage Solution  >     - Mainframe Class Platform >     - Services Group >     - Mangement Software >     - PC Platformt >     - Handheld Platform- >     - Printer business  I And other than printers, what on that list dod Compaq not have as of last L week? Do you really think that not having a world class printer business hasH kept Compaq down? Does DELL have a printer business? Or anything else on? that list other than a PC business? Does IBM have one any more?n  K And a really revolting collection of patches. We run Tru64 and HPUX side by>E side. HP has done a great job of making DEC, and for the past 3 years J Compaq, look REAL GOOD. Around here, the joke is that HP stands for HourlyH Patches. There's got to be a 2 order of magnitude difference between theJ number of patches needed to keep HPUX up and running compared to Tru64. MyJ counterparts who've come from other backgrounds tell me that Tru64 is MUCHE easier to use and manage than Sun, and HP worse. It's a night and dayd difference.   L The only thing HPUX has over Tru64 is market share and application base. TheL reason we've got all the HP boxes is to support applications that just don't run on Tru64. Much less VMS :-(y  L And I can't see the combined company supporting HPUX, Tru64, and Linux. Much less all of those AND VMS :-(t  K There was very little overlap in the Compaq-DEC deal. The only thing reallyeI dumped was the DEC PC business, which never was much. I don't see that inwK HP-Compaq. Almost EVERYTHING is duplicated. OK, HP has printers, and Compaq  has DEC Storageworks.y  L I don't see both SuperDome and WildFire surviving. Similarly down the ladderJ frm midrange to desktop. I'd expect to continue to see Proliant servers inG the LAN area. But I can't see a combined HP-Compaq competing any better J against Dell than either did before. Maybe they could acquire Gateway next	 month :-(e  K But it really makes things clear why Alpha was killed off this summer. JustoJ like DEC dumping the FAB so they could sell the rest to Compaq, Compaq hasG lopped off another family jewel to make the deal with HP. I wonder whati> piece will go before the whole mess gets sold to someone else?  J [this message posted from a terminal emulator running on a WinDell peecee]   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:20:17 +0100r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqh8 Message-ID: <lno9ptccsh55rhm36f00q0ljebtk2kopfu@4ax.com>  C On 4 Sep 2001 09:04:07 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h wrote:     >sB >	I don't have to.  If it is a done deal, we live with it , right?  = No it isn't as Capellas and Carly have admitted thanks to theo regulators.- >- >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:55:32 GMTe( From: Steve Leibel <stevel@bluetuna.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy CompaquB Message-ID: <stevel-854592.10555204092001@nyctyp01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>  9 In article <1pXk7.5770$mC2.2688974@typhoon2.gnilink.net>,.(  "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:  # > Hewlett-Packard Agrees to Acquiree > Compaq Computer in Stock Swap-6 > By NIKHIL DEOGUN, GARY MCWILLIAMS and MOLLY WILLIAMS, > Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL >  >     E And so Tandem, which was started by HP alumni in 1974, returns to HP.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:39:24 +0100a0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq * Message-ID: <3B94F5AC.6105D289@uk.sun.com>   Jeff Killeen wrote:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:wPnHyUluL3x5@eisner.encompasserve.org...   > > Dell is responsible for thisH > > merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/CompaqE > > may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be ac
 > > big plus.a > N > Dell likely forced the day of recognizing for both Compaq and HP.  It placedJ > both in the position of either having to dramatically shrink (by pullingF > back their PC business) or do something drastic.  But what is likelyJ > responsible for the merger is Unix.  Compaq's strategy required a strong> > data center Unix and Tru64 wasn't getting there fast enough. > > > DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. now has a truly credible... >  >     - Unix Platform    		Tru64, HP-UX, Linuxe   >     - Storage Solution  , 		Storage works, HDS, SHARK, HP Fibre arrays    >     - Mainframe Class Platform   		WildFire, SuperDomee   >     - Services Group   		Compaq Services, HP PS.    >     - Mangement Software  ! 		HP OpenView, Compaq Insight etcn   >     - PC Platform    		Dittoi   >     - Handheld Platforme   		Jornado, Ipaq    >     - Printer business  + 		Hurrah a single product group where theref 		isnt much commonality.  < The point of this is both companies had all the elements you= covered in your list, with the possible exception of printingtA before the HP purchase so if this was the purpose of the purchase ) it seems to be a mistake from the start.       Regardsg Andrew Harrisoni Enterprise IT Architectn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:09:30 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqe( Message-ID: <9n2ua4$3e6$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:6UFonqOD$k44@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <9n2008$7vh$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:s   ...r  C > >> The engineering talent in a combined HP/Compaq is an excellentn+ > >> thing.  This should be a great merger.e > >rK > > Guess you must figure this news is almost as good as the Alphacide was.r And I > > I suspect you'll be about equally effective in convincing the rest ofr us.l > >  >iB > I don't have to.  If it is a done deal, we live with it , right?  K No:  people always have choices.  This deal will affect a lot of them, justl as the Alphacide did.b   - bill   >  > RobR >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:09:17 GMTc& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqe9 Message-ID: <N07l7.8143$Op6.1572114@typhoon1.gnilink.net>e  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messageL$ news:3B94F5AC.6105D289@uk.sun.com... > Jeff Killeen wrote:X > >T< > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:wPnHyUluL3x5@eisner.encompasserve.org...6" > > > Dell is responsible for thisJ > > > merger as much as the economy.  By combining and slashing, HP/CompaqG > > > may actually be able to make "break even" in PCs which would be ar > > > big plus.h > > I > > Dell likely forced the day of recognizing for both Compaq and HP.  Itp placedL > > both in the position of either having to dramatically shrink (by pullingH > > back their PC business) or do something drastic.  But what is likelyL > > responsible for the merger is Unix.  Compaq's strategy required a strong@ > > data center Unix and Tru64 wasn't getting there fast enough. > >e@ > > DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. now has a truly credible... > >0 > >     - Unix Platform  >g > Tru64, HP-UX, Linuxy >l > >     - Storage Solution >r, > Storage works, HDS, SHARK, HP Fibre arrays >9" > >     - Mainframe Class Platform >c > WildFire, SuperDomei >b > >     - Services Group >l > Compaq Services, HP PS.  >  > >     - Mangement Software >o! > HP OpenView, Compaq Insight etcl >  > >     - PC Platformc >n > Dittoc >n > >     - Handheld Platformc >e > Jornado, Ipaqa >  > >     - Printer business >h+ > Hurrah a single product group where there  > isnt much commonality. >1> > The point of this is both companies had all the elements you? > covered in your list, with the possible exception of printing5C > before the HP purchase so if this was the purpose of the purchaser* > it seems to be a mistake from the start.  L While there was overlap clearly there were winner and losers.  Lets take oneJ that shouldn't start a religious war - the iPAQ handheld was clearly doingI better in the marketplace than the HP handheld - which bring me to what Ie said before...  F "...hopefully DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. will be smart enough toL develop a culture that lets it star strategic technologies rise to their ownK level without, having them held back by legacy tactical technologies, while L allowing the legacy tactical technologies to function as a business on theirL own.  Digital was never very good at this.  IBM has always been very good at this..."  K From that list above you posted they have to run with the likely winners inc, the marketplace (e.g. HP-UX versus Tru64)...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:21:05 +0100& From: "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq 1 Message-ID: <9n2v6p$6kc$1@uranium.btinternet.com>e  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:c6++ipTJBb9o@eisner.encompasserve.org...n< > In article <9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "Daza"! <blahblah@btinternet.com> writes:l >sD > > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will still0; > > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though.p >uD > I am not inclined to place much faith in someone who does not sign
 > their name.4  D Does knowing someone's name somehow invoke personal knowledge of theD qualities of that person?  I wish that were true, life would be veryH easy.  Besides, the name that I wish to be known by is my choice.  Also,A if a name is so important, why not publish a contact name on youru company website?  E And yes, I am using a dummy email address, as I never want to receive E unsolicited email.  I notice that you choose to avoid using your realrC email address and use a Spamcop.net account in an attempt to filtereB unsolicited email.  However, you have given enough details in yourG posting to figure out (automatically) likely candidates for your domainf and mailbox name.   D Seeing as you work for a VMS security products organisation, I wouldD have thought you would appreciate securing electronic addresses from unwanted eyes?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:38:52 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>i- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqr( Message-ID: <9n3016$5l2$1@pyrite.mv.net>  1 "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com> wrote in messagei- news:9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com...o   ...o  H > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will still9 > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though.e  F Depends on how large a portion of the VMS customer base sticks around.K Which in turn depends in part on HP's willingness to complete EV7 and EV7x.i   ...s  H > By combining the HP and Compaq PC business, and making huge cost cuts,; > it is likely that the PC business sector will break even.e  K Perhaps.  But this could likely have been the case individually as well, oreK close enough that the difference wouldn't be noticeable.  There's certainly:L no indication of any real synergy from the combination, just possible slightJ reductions in fixed overheads by increases in volumes already large enough; to have accomplished most of what reductions were possible."  
   As you know.) > Compaq is a lot more than a PC builder.   5 Not since June 25th.  Except for the Tandem division.f     Compaq have great technology,IA > both hardware and software, especially at the enterprise level.r  H Again, as of June 25th they threw most of that (except for Tandem) away.  H > Unfortunately the Compaq name has continued to be much more associatedH > with PCs and Proliant servers, than Alphaservers and Himalaya servers.  , And, as it turns out, with very good reason.  I > Also, until recently, it seemed that Compaq didn't know what to do withh* > it's enterprise technology and services.  K No:  Pfeiffer gave some indication that he did in fact know what to do with'L them.  It's only post-Pfeiffer that Compaq has proved absolutely incompetent? in that area, and it's only become worse with time, not better.h     Hopefully under HP, thee5 > enterprise business will have a better stewardship.m  J If HP cared at all about Compaq's assets in that area (other than Tandem),K it wouldn't have allowed Compaq to give them to Intel two months ago.  WithsK Alpha's death warrant, VMS's and Tru64's future was seriously, and probablyi fatally, crippled.  C > Also, remember that HP had a big hand in the development of IA64.mF > Basically they bet their high end server business on this.  With theI > Compaq/Intel deal, ex Alpha engineers will have a big say in the futureo > development of IA64.  E Except almost all of the EV8 engineers are already at Intel, with the K promise that those EV7 engineers who are still at Compaq will be free to goMJ there as soon as their EV7 chores are done.  HP may well hasten that date,K but if it were interested in the Alpha engineers itself it, again, wouldn'tTJ have allowed the EV8 group to be siphoned off just before the acquisition.  ,   Future IA64 processors should have all the > features HP and Compaq want.  B It sounds as if you haven't a clue about the nature of what you'reH suggesting.  This acquisition doesn't in any way alter the difficulty ofK merging Alpha's technology with EPIC, nor make it any more likely to occur,p, let alone any sooner if it ever does at all.  (   A combined HP and Compaq should enableF > IA64 to make big inroads into Sun SPARC and IBM Power4 server sales.  H And why is that?  The acquisition has just made VMS's and Tru64's futureJ even more uncertain than it already was, so no improvement there.  It willL occupy the management of both companies for the next year or so, just as theI DEC acquisition did, which will hardly make them more competitive (rathern the opposite).     InJ > the hardware business, server sales, especially at the high end, is were$ > good margins are still being made.  6 Until Compaq screwed up Alpha's future two months ago.   >g > So this is my take on things: @ > PCs and Wintel servers - consolidation of models.  Will become? > profitable again.  This should provide good DELL competition.l  G Neither has shown any ability to provide such competition individually:I< together, they'll quite possibly be even less able to do so.  D > UNIX - I can't see a future for separate HP-UX and Tru64 operatingI > systems.  I guess they will merge over time into one OS.  How this fitsdH > in with the port of Tru64 from Alpha to IA64 is interesting.  The factH > that UX already runs on IA64 may be an indicator of a future strategy;C > add Tru64 capabilities/compatibility on top of UX?  Sun should bea > nervous about this.c  G I'm sure they're just quaking in their boots, rather than rubbing theireJ hands thinking about all the new business that is about to be scared theirD way (beyond that which they're already picking up from the June 25th	 fallout).2  I > OpenVMS - I guess that the IA64 port will still go ahead.  I cannot seeO8 > OpenVMS being actively developed in the future though.  L One point on which we agree (though the port is at least as shakey as it was	 already).   G > Himalaya - HP don't have an equivalent product.  I think this will benF > the least affected business unit.  Hopefully, HP will accelerate theH > resurgence of this platform.  Himalaya can take business away from Sun? > and IBM at the high end.  Just look at the recent Sabre deal.-  L Not clear how much market-share expansion is possible there:  it's a kind ofK specialized platform.  But if HP has any sense at all, it won't screw it upa! (even Compaq knew enough not to).r   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:19:40 GMTf4 From: Bill Honaker <nospam_bhonaker@xidsoftware.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq 8 Message-ID: <pe0aptcvt594nlr3hfb1211m9cnkiadh6o@4ax.com>   <clip>   >h! >>     - Mainframe Class Platformu >e >		WildFire, SuperDome >.A Since this has been cross posted, I'd like to recommend one other'& option. with my best regards to Sabre:  	 Himalaya.T  ) IMHO, more 'mainframe' class than either.    Bill Honaker Chief Technology Officer XID Software, Inc.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 11:44:13 -0500m+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq 3 Message-ID: <MinTK1ihFwoz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3B94F5AC.6105D289@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:h     >>     - Storage Solutions > . > 		Storage works, HDS, SHARK, HP Fibre arrays     	HDS is Hitachi. 	Shark is IBM's product.% 	StorageWorks is the big winner here.I   > ! >>     - Mainframe Class Platformv >  > 		WildFire, SuperDome  >   ( 	They become one when IA64 gets healthy.   >>     - Services Group, >  > 		Compaq Services, HP PS.q >  >>     - Mangement Softwaree > # > 		HP OpenView, Compaq Insight etce >   : 	Very good when these come together.  Seems OpenView would 	subsume Insight Manager.t   >>     - PC Platform > 	 > 		DittoT >  	chomp chomp chomp   >>     - Handheld Platform >  > 		Jornado, Ipaqi >    	Ipaq.   >>     - Printer businessa > - > 		Hurrah a single product group where there  > 		isnt much commonality. >    	Yes.k  > > The point of this is both companies had all the elements you? > covered in your list, with the possible exception of printinghC > before the HP purchase so if this was the purpose of the purchaseX+ > it seems to be a mistake from the start. N >   1 	You overlooked storage.  HP is a distant player:-  8 SAN Supplier Unit Market Share, 2000 (Gartner Dataquest) Compaq 49% e Sun 14%  EMC 11%  HP 7%  Dell 3%  IBM 2% A HDS 1% R   Others 13% c  ? 	Yes, these figures are highly debatable and often are.  But HP 0 	is seldom referred to as a storage heavyweight.   				Robw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:55:51 -0600n% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> - Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010904105404.00ace578@ntbsod.psccos.com>  & At 10:44 AM 9/4/2001, Rob Young wrote:  : >         You overlooked storage.  HP is a distant player: >C9 >SAN Supplier Unit Market Share, 2000 (Gartner Dataquest)p >Compaq 49%d >Sun 14% >EMC 11% >HP 7% >Dell 3% >IBM 2%  >HDS 1%d >w >Others 13%i  D Most of HP's storage stuff is (or at least was) Data General and EMCG (although I think they had a falling-out with EMC a year or so ago).  I-4 don't think they do much of their own storage stuff.   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+bI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |4I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |-I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+0   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Sep 2001 12:14:34 -0500u- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq13 Message-ID: <9xMAt+Nz1$op@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  Z In article <9n2v6p$6kc$1@uranium.btinternet.com>, "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com> writes:< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:c6++ipTJBb9o@eisner.encompasserve.org... = >> In article <9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "Daza",# > <blahblah@btinternet.com> writes:7 >>E >> > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will0 > still2< >> > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though. >>E >> I am not inclined to place much faith in someone who does not sign9 >> their name. > F > Does knowing someone's name somehow invoke personal knowledge of theF > qualities of that person?  I wish that were true, life would be veryC > easy.  Besides, the name that I wish to be known by is my choice.g   And who I trust is mine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:14:47 GMT * From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqc* Message-ID: <3B950C36.230BCA8@prodigy.net>  L Furthermore, does seeing a name on an e-mail mean that a person by that name
 posted it?   Daza wrote:  > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:c6++ipTJBb9o@eisner.encompasserve.org...t> > > In article <9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, "Daza"# > <blahblah@btinternet.com> writes:  > >xF > > > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will > stillk= > > > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though.o > > F > > I am not inclined to place much faith in someone who does not sign > > their name.  > F > Does knowing someone's name somehow invoke personal knowledge of theF > qualities of that person?  I wish that were true, life would be veryJ > easy.  Besides, the name that I wish to be known by is my choice.  Also,C > if a name is so important, why not publish a contact name on yourh > company website? > G > And yes, I am using a dummy email address, as I never want to receivecG > unsolicited email.  I notice that you choose to avoid using your realeE > email address and use a Spamcop.net account in an attempt to filtertD > unsolicited email.  However, you have given enough details in yourI > posting to figure out (automatically) likely candidates for your domaini > and mailbox name.e > F > Seeing as you work for a VMS security products organisation, I wouldF > have thought you would appreciate securing electronic addresses from > unwanted eyes?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.492 ************************