1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 496       Contents:. Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition a summing-up so far  Re: a summing-up so far  Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: alpha - ia64 Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris  Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris  Re: C++ v6 "feature"! Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff ! Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff ! Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff 2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file cpio ported to OpenVMS?  Re: DCL doubts...   Re: Digital and Alpha to Survive Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  eXcursion Question Re: eXcursion Question FW: User Friendly ' RE: How to backup a directory structure ' Re: How to backup a directory structure ' Re: How to backup a directory structure  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq C Re: Intel has released Hyper-threading for it's next gen processors G IT personal is just a commodity (was Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff) K Re: IT personal is just a commodity (was Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff) : OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft> Re: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft> Re: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft> Re: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft Pagefile questions Re: Pagefile questions Re: Pagefile questions Re: Pagefile questions Re: Pagefile questions Re: RIP Bill Gates Re: RIP Bill Gates Re: Status of Alpha # The analysts weigh in on the merger 
 User Friendly  VMS NFS and PC-NFS (Reflexion)" Re: VMS NFS and PC-NFS (Reflexion)5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? , Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed, Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed, Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed, Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed, Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed7 Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server? $ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq$ Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:12:53 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition * Message-ID: <3B975A35.451F7BB8@uk.sun.com>   Dirk Munk wrote: >  > "Hipenbecker, Doug" wrote: > H > > Does this mean that the HP Journada I own is obsolete or is the iPAQ' > > obsolete...or do I know own a hPAQ? 
 > > :):):) > >  > > Doug Hipenbecker > > Miller Brewing > >  > > -----Original Message-----0 > > From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]. > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:36 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > > Subject: Re: A Compaq Perspective on the HP Acquisition  > > 8 > > On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:01:45 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"( > > <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: > > P > > >Hmmm.  I believe all the memo's say that we have to shut up while the megerN > > >works its way through the legal mazes.  Besides, most of us know about as= > > >much as anyone who picked up the newspaper this morning.  > > > O > > >For the time being, until the merger is complete, I believe it is business 7 > > >as usual, including executing the current roadmap.  > > C > > iPAQs are very good at holding real computerized roadmaps while I > > traveling. Perhaps Compaq could send us all a cellphone enabled  iPAQ < > > so that the Compaq roadmaps can be updated in real time. >   ) Does the iPaq support hard real time ????    Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:49:25 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: a summing-up so far( Message-ID: <9n85sl$j61$1@pyrite.mv.net>  K Ken Farmer invited me to write up a point-of-view article for tru64.org for I those who don't follow the newsgroups.  I sent it to him last Sunday, and % you all know what happened on Monday.   I Submitted an update early this morning, but it hasn't yet appeared on the L Web site.  Since CETS is fast approaching and people are doubtless wonderingL what they'll find to talk about there, I've appended it below:  not much newG and somewhat less detail than has surfaced in the total discussion, but % sometimes detail can be overpowering.    - bill    	 Prologue:   F I sent this article to Ken the day before the HP acquisition offer wasL announced.  Since I believe that the issues it raises remain important, I'veB chosen not to modify a word of it in hindsight but rather to add aK postscript that attempts to tie those concerns into the new, wider picture.    - bill    ! Alpha:  What Was Compaq Thinking?     K Over two months have now elapsed since Compaq signed Alpha's death warrant, L but the reasoning behind the move remains as clouded as it was on June 25th.F Some people believe that it was a legitimate business decision, othersD believe that it was either monumentally incompetent or the result ofI behind-the-scenes forces unrelated to shareholder value, and the majority B are likely just uncertain and therefore at least somewhat worried.  K Ken Farmer invited me to present one side of this issue, since he felt that F people who do not follow the newsgroup discussions (many of which haveK occurred in comp.os.vms and comp.arch rather than in comp.unix.tru64) might G have missed the existence of significant disagreement with the official K Compaq view of things that has been aired at tru64.org.  He asked only that I I attempt to keep the presentation moderately balanced, and I have to say G that doing so will be a pleasant change from the often-heated newsgroup 
 interchanges.   J So I'll begin by summarizing Compaq's explanations for its Alpha decision,? and then try to explain the problems some of us have with those 
 explanations.      "Good-Bye, Old Paint"   I Compaq presented Alpha as a platform that had simply out-lived its value: J it cost money to develop, commanded only modest market share compared withF other server platforms, and showed little indication of improving thatI position in the future.  Given that Compaq claims that its most promising 9 future opportunities lie in service areas, it presented a E platform-consolidation strategy in which the next generation of Alpha K systems would be completed and brought to market, after which completion of I Tru64 and VMS operating system ports to IA64 would allow that platform to * take over the markets Alpha had satisfied.  K It's certainly possible to disagree with Compaq on Alpha's future potential F and profitability, since many believe that had Compaq made any seriousK effort to support and promote Alpha, even starting as late as June 24th, it K could have found Alpha more than worth keeping (since even being relatively K neglected it was still as profitable as any other Compaq business area, and F more profitable than most).  And it's also possible to disagree on theH future potential of Compaq's service business (especially the 40% annualL growth figure based upon the acquisition of new service companies supposedlyJ made possible by the money acquired from Intel as part of the Alpha deal),E given that Compaq has had three years to make the service business it 1 acquired from Digital bloom and has yet to do so.   J But corporations do need to be free to follow their visions, even possiblyD faulty ones, and if those were the only issues there would likely beE relatively little active discontent over Alpha's demise, though still 8 possibly a fair amount of regret for opportunities lost.     Shattered Commitments   I The pill that may be the hardest for many to swallow is the fact that the B June 25th announcement shattered the repeated, public, unequivocalJ commitments, both verbal and written, that Compaq has used since acquiringD Digital to encourage customers to commit their businesses to Alpha'sJ long-term future, including explicit commitments to that future's evolvingK performance and capacity.  These commitments were unambiguously spelled out H in a letter from two Compaq Vice Presidents (Bill Heil and Jesse Lipcon)L that was posted publicly on the Alpha Web site from September, 1999, throughF July, 2001 (i.e., it finally disappeared a month or so after Alpha was axed).  K Though Bill and Jesse left Compaq late last year, the letter remained - and K was used to demonstrate Compaq's public commitment to Alpha, right up until K the June 25th announcement, in presentations to customers by a wide variety I of Compaq functionaries including current Compaq VP&GM Rich Marcello.  It I was all the more forceful and convincing because it contained none of the G usual disclaimers about 'forward-looking statements that may or may not L actually come to pass':  it just said, effectively, "You can safely bet your< business on this future, because we are betting ours on it."  H Why would Compaq have gone out on such a limb?  The letter appeared justK after Compaq dropped support for Windows 2000 on Alpha (another instance in D which Compaq reassured customers that its support for a platform wasG absolutely solid right up until that support was dropped) and Microsoft K retaliated by dropping support for 64-bit Windows on Alpha.  Customers were I concerned that this might reflect questionable Compaq commitment to Alpha L itself, and the letter was meant to be the strongest possible assurance that this was not the case.  H And it was effective reassurance indeed.  Until June 25th, when, withoutH consulting customers to find out how to change these commitments in someK mutually-acceptable manner, Compaq simply broke them, unilaterally and with G no hint of apology.  That alone is sufficient reason for some customers H never to do business with current Compaq management again:  some minimalC level of trust is important to business relationships, and Compaq's   leadership just doesn't have it.  J I'll provide my copy of the letter for Ken to post if he feels he can:  itD was, after all, publicly posted for close to two years by Compaq.  AJ slightly sanitized version (possibly just an earlier draft) of this letter= still appears on the Compaq Web site, though less prominently K  http://www.compaq.com/hpc/news/news_alpha_sept99.html ):  it's just enough F milder in the last lengthy paragraph to significantly blunt its impact1 compared with the version that's no longer there.      Smoke, FUD, or Worse?   J Unfortunately, there's more.  In apparent attempts to justify a move whichL it must have known would engender major criticism, Compaq claimed that AlphaF in the future would have had "no substantial performance benefit" overF contemporaneous IA64 platforms (Rich Marcello, quoted in the June 26thE EETimes:  http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 ).  And Terry L Shannon plus members of both the VMS and Tru64 development groups publicizedA Compaq's internal assertions that the doubts about Alpha's future J performance potential (compared with IA64's) came from the Alpha engineersD themselves (I think there may also have been some more formal public= statement to this effect, but I can't find it at the moment).   F It wasn't long before said Alpha architects started to come forth (oneI publicly, more privately) to state that not only had they said nothing of J the kind but that in their opinion Alpha had every bit as much performanceK promise (and future advantage over IA64) as had been forecast for years and G explained in great detail in a 1999 Compaq white paper (alpha_ia64.pdf, K which can still, at least as of this writing, be found as one of the papers J at http://www.compaq.com/hpc/ref/ref_systems.html ; additional comparative; analysis can be found in Paul DeMone's 'Insider' columns at F www.realworldtech.com).  Later, a high-level Alpha development managerE responded internally to questions by stating that the move had been a 8 'business decision' rather than due to technical issues.  K Recently, it has been suggested (in http://www.theinquirer.net/27080104.htm D , an article which is disturbing in other respects as well) that theG decision to kill Alpha came from the CTO's office rather than from more I substantive portions of engineering.  So there are several possibilities, J none of them very attractive:  1) Marcello and his superiors were activelyK lying, 2) Marcello and his superiors were actively lied to, or 3) a pivotal D corporate decision was made on the basis of incompetently-researchedJ information that no one bothered to verify, despite the decision's clearlyH sensitive nature.  But, as in other areas, Compaq has issued no official. clarification since the announcement rhetoric.  H In a bizarre twist, concurrently with the above public claims of Alpha'sH newly-discovered inadequacy Compaq was more quietly (and inconsistently)I spreading rumors via employees (VMS VP Mark Gorham apparently among them) C that Intel had purchased the rights to Alpha technology to save the I faltering IA64 architecture, which would become so Alphabetized under the B covers that the result would be entirely acceptable to those Alpha- aficionados who might otherwise be upset (see E http://www.theinquirer.net/28060117.htm , plus comp.os.vms posts from K 'Alphaman' of that date).  This tactic was much more short-lived, however - 9 possibly because Intel got wind of it and was not amused.      Voodoo Economics  C Assertions were put forth by possible Crown Prince Mike Winkler (in F http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2780645,00.html andI picked up by other eager external voices, Mr. Shannon's first among them) K that the expense of continued Alpha development was simply not justifiable, F but while no internal voices have been raised up to contradict this itE appears to stand up to examination no better than the above-described  technical fig-leaves.   H Leaving aside the likelihood that any real effort to support and promoteK Alpha could have significantly expanded its market share and profitability, K existing VMS-related profit alone ($800 million annually as of a bit over a H year ago) far more than covers the $300 million annually Winkler claimedG Alpha development cost, let alone the annual $150 million quoted in the ! aforementioned Marcello interview D  http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105 ) which may be a moreH realistic estimate of what Compaq stands to save by canceling Alpha chipG development (and is also more consistent with the projected development L costs in the 1999 and 2000 annual reports).  Add in at least $400 million inB annual profit for Tru64-related system sales (a March Compaq slideK presentation listed VMS-related annual revenue as $4 billion and Tru64's as H $3 billion, so pegging Tru64's profit at half VMS's seems conservative),J plus a smidgeon for Alpha Linux system sales, and the Alpha business looksH healthier than any other Compaq has:  Tandem systems likely have similar@ margins, but at $2 billion annually according to the March slideI presentation less than 1/3 the Alpha revenue; PCs have barely broken even K for the past couple of years, and while 'industry-standard servers' grew in G revenue and profitability last year when the dot.com bubble burst their ' profits apparently disappeared with it.   I I could go on, but this is already getting rather lengthy.  Anyone hungry G for more details can find them in my July 19th comp.arch post rebutting D Terry's repeated assertions that Alpha development was "economically unsustainable".p     So, What Was Compaq Thinking?m  G The picture I've painted above is not a pretty one, strongly suggesting4J either staggering incompetence or blatant dishonesty (or both).  But whileD I've said as much in my more heated moments, there's still somethingK unsatisfying about not having any explanation for what might have motivatedm+ Compaq to be so unwise and/or so unethical._  L For years I've felt that Compaq's leadership really wasn't comfortable beingG responsible for significant technology, hardware or software.  At leastSL they've never seemed to devote any real effort to promoting it since EckhardF Pfeiffer was ousted.  Which at least raises the question in my mind ofJ whether the current leadership might be afraid of joining Pfeiffer if theyF were so rash as to pursue anything outside Compaq's traditional PC and! 'industry-standard server' space.   E An alternative to fear (of the BoD?) could be internal politics.  The G 'Compaq Classic' Houston contingent has, unsurprisingly, seemed to haveaH considerably more influence than those people acquired with Digital, andK using it to expand their own fiefdoms rather than in what might be the bestRE interests of the company as a whole it would hardly be unprecedented.t  G Then there's the bean-counter disease, of which the new interest in thepF service business could be a symptom.  Service industries don't requireF expensive development funding and technology responsibility, and sinceJ Compaq's service revenue was broken out from the associated system revenueL it has looked pretty attractive.  The fact that most of this service revenueI might dry up if Compaq hadn't sold the hardware in the first place may beM less evident to a bean-counter.   L And finally there's simple isolation.  Perhaps the people who make decisionsD just haven't a clue about the possible consequences:  after all, theE remaining Digital customers have put up with many years of neglect ordI outright mistreatment without bolting, so what reason is there to believeg they'll balk this time?B  F But while I'm fairly comfortable that I understand a lot of *what* hasK happened surrounding the Alpha debacle, I'm nowhere nearly as sure that any G of the above adequately explain *why* it occurred.  And while if Compaq J chooses to respond to this article it may be inclined to attempt some kindL of factual rebuttal, I suspect it would be better advised to provide insteadE details of the reasoning it applied to the process and any additionaleK insights it has developed in the months since:  whether Compaq is yet aware C of it or not, its survival may depend upon adequate answers to suchC
 questions.     Postscript:   D Well, the events of September 4th certainly add possibilities to theI speculations above.  But they don't eliminate the concerns about Compaq'stB integrity and competence, which is why I decided not to modify the# exposition but simply to add to it.-  L We now know that plans were afoot to merge with another company with an even* greater commitment to IA64 than Compaq hasL  http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/23/010823hnitanium.xml ) andK no option equivalent to Alpha as a fallback (PA-RISC could carry HP servers H for a few more years, but was never planned to carry them indefinitely).K Given the investment HP already has in IA64 (including running hardware ande< software), expecting it to embrace Alpha would be a stretch.  K However, that merely changes the question to why Compaq would *want* such arK merger.  If it thought that this would be a good deal for its stockholders, J all current evidence indicates that it was radically in error:  HP's stockI dropped 22% over the two days after the announcement, and Compaq's stock, H unlike that of most acquisition targets, dropped 16% as well; before theJ announcement, both were at or near 52-week lows, while two days later bothC were at 5-year lows; analyst reactions have been almost universally L negative, seeing no synergy in the deal but two years of confusion while theG merger (if it occurs) is sorted out and advising purchasers to consider K holding off on major commitments to products of either company until it has H become clear which product lines will survive consolidation; HP's credit rating was reduced ...  H For the Tru64 and VMS camps, the news does not appear to be good either.F "Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT, and Unix, according to
 McDonnell"  L http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.html?tag=pt.msnbc.feed..ne_7071K 077 ) hardly promises the VMS 'renaissance' that the latter group had hopediH for, while Capellas' statement that the idea for the merger arose duringJ discussions about Compaq licensing HP/UX makes his (let alone HP's) likelyG commitment to Tru64's future appear dubious at best (and since HP/UX isuG big-endian while Tru64 is little-endian, the likelihood of merging themSI compatibly seems slim).  Couple this with the porting hiatus during which'F neither Tru64 nor VMS will be available on a platform with a perceivedI future, plus uncertainties due to the merger itself (as mentioned above),i3 and additional customer attrition seems inevitable.g  I The situation thus appears less confused but considerably bleaker than itsK did prior to September 4th.  My guess is that for Tru64 and VMS to survive,eH the merger must fail, and fail relatively quickly.  The result of such aH failure could be a top-level Compaq management blood-bath, which doesn'tF strike me as a bad idea in any event, though an attitude-conversion ofJ Biblical proportions on their part could be equally acceptable.  I'll evenK go so far as to suggest that the only way Compaq is likely to survive is toiL revive Alpha:  the EV8 design was close to completion, the EV7 engineers areI still around (plus any who might return if there were some real guaranteerK that EV8 would become reality), Compaq retained Alpha development rights in A the deal it made with Intel (that's what supposedly made the dealeK FTC-friendly), and all the financial numbers still seem to suggest that anyeJ money spent on Alpha development will be amply repaid in increased profit.  J No, I don't really expect that to happen.  But nothing else on the horizonG looks as if it will save the company in anything like its current form.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 17:17:36 -0000a: From: rob@GTEDHCP-183.inetarena.com (Robert M. Riches Jr.)  Subject: Re: a summing-up so far: Message-ID: <slrn9pfbta.9vv.rob@GTEDHCP-183.inetarena.com>  I On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:49:25 -0400, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:x >i >Shattered Commitments >aJ >The pill that may be the hardest for many to swallow is the fact that theC >June 25th announcement shattered the repeated, public, unequivocal K >commitments, both verbal and written, that Compaq has used since acquiringvE >Digital to encourage customers to commit their businesses to Alpha'siK >long-term future, including explicit commitments to that future's evolvingrL >performance and capacity.  These commitments were unambiguously spelled outI >in a letter from two Compaq Vice Presidents (Bill Heil and Jesse Lipcon)oM >that was posted publicly on the Alpha Web site from September, 1999, throughsG >July, 2001 (i.e., it finally disappeared a month or so after Alpha wasa >axed).   : Mr. Todd, thank you for an enlightening explanation of the? history behind recent events.  The detail about "what" happenedC was/is very informative.  ? On the off chance it will be of some comfort to those who, liketA myself, admire the Alpha architecture, here's a little historicalb: perspective.  There is nothing unique about the failure ofA Digital and then Compaq management to adequately support superiordA technology, then the decision by said management to apparently dos< away with it.  There have been many similar instances in the< past, at least some of them including shattered commitments.  A In 1985, Intel taped out first silicon for implementations of twoe> 32-bit instruction set architectures: the 80386 and what would< later be known as the 80960.  The 960 taped out three months@ later than the 386, had about 1.4X the transistor count, and was5 roughly 2X as fast on benchmarks of the day.  The 960 A architecture was vastly technically superior to the pile of wartsv; by which X86 had incrementally evolved from the lowly 8008.e  A In 1989, Intel (and Siemens from Germany) hosted a huge dinner attA a Portland, Oregon hotel for a few hundred employees who had beenu? working on a joint project involving the 960 architecture.  The A hotel ballroom was decorated in a luxury cruise theme.  Employeesq; were told the new jointly-owned company, Biin, had the fullsA long-term commitment from both parent companies.  One year later, A Biin was put up for sale.  Six weeks after being put up for sale,s Biin was disbanded.p  ? In 1990, Ken Fine (division manager or something similar at theaA time) promised the 960 chip design group that there were no planso; to move 960 development to Arizona (from Oregon).  One yearp@ later, the same Ken Fine informed the same design group that 960' development would be moving to Arizona.r  @ Broken commitments to employees and customers are very common in9 the world of "business".  Maybe I'm a cynic, but the morep8 strongly a company or manager asserts their integrity or= commitment to something, the more I have learned to doubt the  truthfulness of the assertion.  > So, what is an admirer of superior technology to do?  Don't go: out on a limb on the basis of a commitment by a "business"> person.  Support the superior technology the best you can, and? try to make the world a better place, but as a practical matter"@ don't put yourself in jeopardy of serious harm if the "business"@ people break their commitments.  Even if we who support superior> technology lose one battle or two or three, we will survive to+ try to do something beneficial in the next.d  ? I sincerely wish good luck to all who are adversely affected byd recent news events.f  
 Robert Riches  richesr1@inetarena.com   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2001 09:33:39 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>s Subject: Re: alpha - ia64tH Message-ID: <y4ofoodb8s.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  , Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> writes:  = > As a result, and because most C programmers tend to be more ? > type-aware (or should be -- after all, they can declare theiro@ > own type and change it at the flick of a key if they want to),- > there's no -i8 flag for the C/C++ compiler.i  H The latter reason also applies to Fortran from F90 onwards. The compilerL switch in question changes the implementation of untyped integers (so-calledI "default INTEGER" type) only. (I'm sure you know that, but I don't reallye) C the difference to see in this respect.)g   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 19:28:20 +0010r% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aur Subject: Re: alpha - ia64p5 Message-ID: <01K810MNA0QQ004ROP@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>o   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:  - >Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> writes:t >o> >> As a result, and because most C programmers tend to be more@ >> type-aware (or should be -- after all, they can declare theirA >> own type and change it at the flick of a key if they want to),r. >> there's no -i8 flag for the C/C++ compiler. >oI >The latter reason also applies to Fortran from F90 onwards. The compiler4;                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ M >switch in question changes the implementation of untyped integers (so-calledeJ >"default INTEGER" type) only. (I'm sure you know that, but I don't really* >C the difference to see in this respect.)  5 A minor nit here, Jan, if I am reading you correctly.   L This is not part of the standard.  Flags, swiches, qualifiers, whatever are I vendor implementations.  Most vendors do seem to have this, but it could )# equally have been done in F77 days.a   Regards, Paddy  0 Apologies if I have misread what you are saying.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 19:46:05 +0010i% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aum Subject: Re: alpha - ia64d5 Message-ID: <01K8118NMOHE004UVA@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   , Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> writes:  = > As a result, and because most C programmers tend to be morei? > type-aware (or should be -- after all, they can declare theirc@ > own type and change it at the flick of a key if they want to),- > there's no -i8 flag for the C/C++ compiler..    F Apart from my minor nit-pick to Jan a few minutes ago, all of this is $ remarkably easy within standard F90.  G Define an integer_kind in a module and play with it willy-nilly.  Type iN definitions are all there and over-loading (not one of my favourite pastimes,  but some will enjoy it :-).   G Serious Fortran programmers are also aware of things like aliasing.  C  M programmers are never sure what that implies with pointer usage.  One of the nN few remaining bonuses that my Alpha Fortran compiler has over my C compiler - M but I'll stick with Fortran (fewer gotchas), and I've seen enough gotchas in  I some of our old Fortran routines.  At least I can recognise them as such.s   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:28:07 +0200n* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> Subject: Re: alpha - ia64d/ Message-ID: <3B975DC7.4090105@brussels.sgi.com>t   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:. >  (I'm sure you know that, but I don't really+ > C the difference to see in this respect.)p > < The difference is that many Fortran programs (in particular,: coming from Cray Unicos) tend to be type-agnostic, and use default kinds liberally.  ( It's much harder in C to try and pretend9 to be type agnostic (and those that do tend to use "long"eA to store "big" numbers), though, and as a result I've rarely seene7 C programs that have much of an issue with -i8 missing.t     -- t? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer>a) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems Engineero. SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2001 18:10:51 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>w Subject: Re: alpha - ia64nH Message-ID: <y48zfsxptg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  L The point was about user-defined types, which C has had from day 1 and which Fortran acquired with F90.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:41:33 +0200r= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> $ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris) Message-ID: <3B9760EC.9DFF3652@gtech.com>s   Gary wrote:oN > Does anyone have any performance information on this subject with respect to) > web server loading and hardware spec's?i   Try look at www.spec.org !  H PS: Good advice - avoid SPARC/Solaris at all cost. If you need Unix then=     go for Tru64 or AIX. Maybe even HP-UX. But never Solaris.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:57:19 +0100t0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS V Sun/Solaris* Message-ID: <3B9772AF.65709A14@uk.sun.com>   Gary wrote:  >  > Hi,w > N > Does anyone have any performance information on this subject with respect to) > web server loading and hardware spec's?  > % > All assistance greatly appreciated.s > 
 > Regards, >  > Gary.-     Tryn  # http://www.specbench.org/osg/web99/a  2 Ignore web96 results, its an out of date benchmark> which was badly skewed by some vendors use of Gigabit Ethernet
 Jumbo frames.l   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect:   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:41:51 +0200< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> Subject: Re: C++ v6 "feature"r4 Message-ID: <9n75rc$5i00l$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   I wrote:L >compiler (version 6.2). The following makes CXXLINK bark over an unresolved >reference:h ... K >My question is: Why doesn't the compiler generate a global definition fromy >the HtWordType.cc definition?  J And the answer is quite easy: because the compiler doesn't generate globalJ definitions for *private* static member variables. Moved the struct to the8 public part of the class, and voila: C++ compiler happy.   cu,r   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.dei One OS to bring them all      |t( http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:10:58 +01000 From: "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com>* Subject: Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff3 Message-ID: <9n806h$r24$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>t  I I think that the email must have been edited. I'm sure the "Warm regards"  should be "You're fired".u  I Classic Executive BS though. As far as I know this kind of email achievesn two objectives.y? 1) Reminding employees of where they stand by patronising them.  2) Ego stroking for the Exec.e  J On a slightly diff topic, doesn't anyone ever get upset with the fact thatK these letters are always talking about the employees as robot slaves ratherv than human beings ?    Cheers,h Rupert  0 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message$ news:3B953FB0.D47D9564@virgin.net...? > The Inquirer has a copy of the email from HP to Compaq staff:u >h) > http://www.theinquirer.net/04090116.htme >a > ==== >i >   Carly's memo to Compaq	 >   staffp >e" >   Got hold of Curly's email list >v* >   By Mike Magee, 04/09/2001 21:00:07 BST >m3 >   HERE'S THE TEXT OF CARLY'S "personal" letter to 8 >   Compaq employees, full of some high-flying thoughts,7 >   and the immortal line "I believe we will change thea9 >   world". This is top stuff. Apply an onion to your eyeq= >   before you start reading, or if you're British, make suree >   your upper lip is stiff.  >l > ===' > Full text at:n >P) > http://www.theinquirer.net/04090116.htmh > -- > Alan Greig >  >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:38:26 GMTu4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie)* Subject: Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff' Message-ID: <CTLl7.635$Oh1.7788@insync>u  / Rupert Pigott (Darkb00ng@btinternet.com) wrote:l :o : [snip] : H : On a slightly diff topic, doesn't anyone ever get upset with the fact L : that these letters are always talking about the employees as robot slaves  : rather than human beings ? :   D There are only carbon-based cost units and silicon-based cost units.   ------------------------------   Date: 06 Sep 2001 17:24:07 GMT' From: gardnert@logica.com (Tom Gardner)d* Subject: Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff> Message-ID: <Xns9114BBA81F08Bgardnertlogicacom@193.123.204.68>  3 "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com> wrote ini) <9n806h$r24$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>: o  A >I think that the email must have been edited. I'm sure the "Warme# >regards" should be "You're fired".r >aA >Classic Executive BS though. As far as I know this kind of emailt >achieves two objectives.b@ >1) Reminding employees of where they stand by patronising them. >2) Ego stroking for the Exec.  = One of Carly's early speeches was analysed on an HP internal n3 newsgroup using the tried and trusted technique of:x     	- pick a phrase, Xa     	- invert X to get not-X3     	- if not-X is rubbish, then X is content-free. @ Unfortunately most of her speech could be eliminated that way :(  F >On a slightly diff topic, doesn't anyone ever get upset with the factC >that these letters are always talking about the employees as robote" >slaves rather than human beings ?  = When they announced one of the cost-saving measures recently bA (probably the "encouraged to take vacation" measure, IIRC), they s posted two announcements:rB     	- one from Bill Hewlett announcing a 9-day fortnight in ~19713     	- one from Carly announcing the latest versiont   It was noticable that:?     	- Bill's memo was short and to the point, in plain Englishw?     	  and didn't attempt any "spin". It had the flavour of a  o     	  memo to a colleague.lE     	- Carly's memo, was long, contained words not in any dictionary,wE     	  made obscure references to "double downing" and "middle game".o5     	  It had the flavour of politician's propaganda.s  8 That was yet another straw that convinced me I ought to  consider leaving HP.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:07:19 +0200- From: "Tzachi Nissim" <tzachi@attunity.co.il>e; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file 0 Message-ID: <9n83iv$6lr$1@news.netvision.net.il>  K We've had to deal with the opposite problem - converting a variable file toh? stream_lf. We just created an fdl file for a stream_lf and usedC2 convert/fdl=... - wouldn't that work here as well?   Tzachi  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B96E38B.415B04C8@fsi.net...u > David Spencer wrote: > >aB > > How about a timeout over the take-under of HP by Compaq for an > > actual question :) > >pK > > I've got some files generated by a C program that are Stream_LF format.eK > > I'd like to write a BASIC program to read them. I've considered severals3 > > options but with little success in any of them.  > >)E > > Is there a CONVERT/FDL that works? Or perhaps someone has a niftyoH > > subroutine in C that I could call that would return the data line byC > > line? (I'm not a C programmer.) Or another worthy suggestion onh > > how I may solve my problem?t > > / > > All of this is happening on VMS Alpha 7.2-1a > >lF > > Many thanks to you all, now back to the Fear and Loathing of HP... >nD > Download http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ppf012.zip and look atH > PPF.BAS (executor portion of my Port-Print Facility (PPF) for use with  > VTs and compatible emulators). >tD > This seems to work for all known variants of record attributes andF > record formats, but I've been wrong before... It can't predict everyD > possible combination of embedded and implied carriage control in aJ > single file, but it should work with Stream, Stream_CR or Stream_LF just > fine within the known limits.- >e > -- > David J. Dachteral > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >p* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/'   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 17:15:07 GMTs* From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com>; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable filee6 Message-ID: <vaOl7.451$Iw2.27778@petpeeve.ziplink.net>  4 > > > 161905 byte record too large for user's buffer > >g@ > >   ^^^^^^ There is your problem, 32676 byte is the maximum !!  ) It sounds like you are indeed in trouble.l  D My understanding (which could easily be wrong) is that Stream-LF wasH intended for storing text files, using ASCII codes.  In stream-LF files,H the LF (Line Feed) character is used as a line terminator (or maybe as a line separator).  L When A program goes to read "records",  each record extends from the currentL file position up to the next LF character,  or to the end of file, whicheverK comes first.  If you have an entire file with no LF characters in it,  thenh you are indeed in trouble.  I Take a look at the program that writes the file.  Is it writing text?  Ifn1 not,  then we got trouble right there.  If it is,AI check to see if it's generating LF characters, periodically.  It might be , generating the LF by using the"/n" constructI in the output stream,  which the C runtime system should be converting tor/ LF.  If there is nothing in the writing programhL that generates LF characters in the file,  then that's probably why the file0 looks like one giant record when you analyze it.  G So,  if you can,  change the program that writes the file to divide theuJ output into "lines of text"  using the "new line" feature,  and see if theK resulting file is usable.  If the writing program is writing bytes that aree not ASCII characters, L you have to use another way, probably using RMS calls to generate one record
 at a time.  3 If none of this works, then I'm out of suggestions.l     -- Regards,     David Cresseyb     www.dcressey.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 19:28:46 +0200 < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable fileo' Message-ID: <3B97B24E.91AE351@home.com>s  7 Isn't the important thing here that the "Record Format"63 attribute in the file header correspond with what'sn actualy *in* the file ?   : *If* the file is a UNIX-style-text-file with only a single; <LF> as line terminator/separator, then it's important thati< the file header also reports "Stream-LF" as "Record Format".  = When I have similar problems they are most of the time solved , by doing a SET FILE/ATTRIB=(...) <the-file>.  8 Now if one *have* to have a file with some other format,7 you have to copy the records by some method between theb< two files. Or use some tool (such as "awk") that can process: the file and substitute a <CR><LF> pair for each <LF>. And7 then also update the file header with SET FILE/ATTRIB !o   Jan-Erik Sderholm.n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:17:11 -0400  From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil  Subject: cpio ported to OpenVMS?0 Message-ID: <01090612171193@beast.dtsw.army.mil>   Hello,  ; Does any one have any info about a port of cpio to OpenVMS?t  $ Thanks for any help you can provide.  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919t; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919 5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 02:51:35 -0700a0 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg) Subject: Re: DCL doubts...= Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0109060151.4b378415@posting.google.com>e  8 Assuming one has a decent VTxxx emulation, the following; small improvements to Mr. Dachtera's example might be nice v to add.   L $ ESC[0,8]==27                  !set terminal Escape code for VT100 commands> $ CSI*VT :== "''ESC'["          !introduces a Control Sequence; $ UNDER*VT:== "''CSI'4m"        !sets underlined characters-H $ NORM*VT:== "''CSI'0m"         !sets all character attributes to normal1 $ ONEUP*VT :==  "''CSI'1A"      !jump up one linea $!! $ UNDLN = "                     "s $ ULLEN = F$LENGTH( UNDLN )h $ CTRLH[0,8]=8' $ BKSPC = F$FAO( "!''ULLEN'*''CTRLH'" )w< $ PRMPT = "Please enter your name: " + UNDER + UNDLN + BKSPC* $ READ SYS$COMMAND UNAME/PROMPT="''PRMPT'" $! $ SAY ONEUP,NORM $ show symbol UNAMEe $ exit      ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3B96E7CC.60A5D78D@fsi.net>... > "Valdemir J. Santos" wrote:t > > < > > I'd like create a DCL procedure to data entry like this: > > - > >  Please enter your name: ________________t > > D > >  My question: How can I put a underline in DCL ? It's possible ? >  > Try this:n >  > $ UNDLN = "________________" > $ ULLEN = F$LENGTH( UNDLN )  > $ CTRLH[0,8]=8) > $ BKSPC = F$FAO( "!''ULLEN'*''CTRLH'" )n6 > $ PRMPT = "Please enter your name: " + UNDLN + BKSPC, > $ READ SYS$COMMAND UNAME/PROMPT="''PRMPT'" > + > Tested on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2, no patches.s > G > Note, however, that this will not prevent the user from entering moreo. > characters than the length of the underline.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 08:53:18 GMTe. From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au>) Subject: Re: Digital and Alpha to Surviven8 Message-ID: <2beept4pcqf3i5uj1gt0i9e11kd4b690op@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:26:23 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >GreyCloud wrote:n >>   >> Burnie M wrote: >> eE >> > On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:25:28 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 3 >> > ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:  >> >W >> > >In article <3B957D1B.DA10D654@home.com>, GreyCloud <drholland10@home.com> writes:c >> > >>Alan Greig wrote: >> > >>d >> > >>> GreyCloud wrote:e >> > >>>
 >> > >>> >
 >> > >>> >0 >> > >>> > How much do you know about Capellas??F >> > >>> > He is going to be the president and CEO of this new merger. >> > >>>Y >> > >>> No he isn't. He will be president but the HP CEO will be the CEO of the combinedw >> > >>> company called HP.- >> > >>> >> > >>> --K >> > >>> Alan Greigl >> > >>oV >> > >>Maybe the gal on FoxNews and also the ones at TechTv have gotten it wrong then. >> > >T >> > >Maybe they have.  (CNN and both the Compaq and HP websites have the Fiorina as" >> > >CEO, Capellas as Pres info.) >> > >
 >> > >-- Alany >> > > >> >G >> > Compaq staff need to 'feel' for a time that Compaq has some say so-  >> > Capellas is in for a while. >> >; >> > My money is on 6 months till the golden handshake tho.e >> iT >> That's about what I give too.... I expect Carly to give Capellas the Golden Bone. >l4 >...or perhaps vice-versa, if you take my meaning...    F We he has had a bit of practise doing it so its only fitting he should be receiving it now.  C Interesting that some (ex Digital) Compaq staff are looking at thist= positively as some of them seem to believe they are getting ao1 management that understands systems not just PCs.f   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 07:55:19 GMTo- From: forkosh@panix2.panix.com (John Forkosh)a$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files) Message-ID: <9n7a57$cjk$1@news.panix.com>   3 Hoff Hoffman (hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam) wrote:.1 : forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) writes:3D : :Just installed vms7.2 on a vs4000/60 and started using ed/edt.... :eA :   <discussion of apparent attribute incompatibility/corruption>i :eC : :     What's going on???  And if it is a file attributes problem,uH : :how can I change the default format saved by ed/edt?  Would stream/lf : :be the best for text files? :rI :   The EDT editor was superceded by the TPU (EVE, etc) editor some time eG :   ago, and is comparatively limited in its features and capabilities.e5 Yes, but my fingers have grown accustomed to edt, andi  I haven't had a need to migrate.  F :   Please post a DIRECTORY/FULL of the file -- both before and after.4 Here's  dir/full test.txt;0  I typed from vs display, (vs is completely standalone for time being)4 ----------------------------------------------------3 TEST.TXT;6                    File ID:  (2680,13,0)w- SIZE:            1/9	      Owner:    [SYSTEM]f etc. File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughD File attributes:    Allocation: 9, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limitH Record format:      Variable length, maximum 255 bytes, longest 48 bytes4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None etc.  F Above file was created by ed/edt; only difference is "maximum 0 bytes" when created by ed.s  D But further investigation suggests that file itself isn't corrupted.H Rather, it's some kind of smg$ (or other display-related) problem ed/edtA is exhibiting.  I created (using ed) a file with 48-byte lines ofP the form5      1. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.e5      2. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.o	      etc.o0 ed/edt worked fine until file got up to 5 lines,4 at which point it displayed lines 1-4 okay, and then.      5. The quick brown fox jumped over the la; and a piece of its [EOB] indicator concatanated after that.   8 But, as long as I didn't actually edit the file, I could; let ed/edt write a new version, and that file would be okayr3 (I deciphered dumps, and located 00030, 48 decimal,w4 counts between lines, and all were okay).  Moreover,: ed was able to pick up new version okay, even after ed/edt6 wrote it from a mangled display.  So I'm guessing it's< some kind of smg$-related problem that ed/edt is exhibiting.  > I'm running vs with S3 up, and a Wyse-285 plugged in mmj port,9 running as Device_Type: VT400_Series (I tried various andD; sundry combinations with same result), and set term/inquireiA in login.com.  Also tried setting crfill and lffill with no luck.v Any suggestions?  Thanks,  John (forkosh@panix.com)   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 08:28:38 GMTd- From: forkosh@panix2.panix.com (John Forkosh)a$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files) Message-ID: <9n7c3m$d8k$1@news.panix.com>   0 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: : John Forkosh wrote:+ : > B : > Just installed vms7.2 on a vs4000/60 and started using ed/edt.K : > Files are created as variable length, max 255, cr/lf (as per dir/full).k :vE : I don't understand that. Is the file being listed as Record format:eF : Stream, or Record format: Variable with Record attributes:  Carriage : return carriage control?@ As per previous followup, here's  dir/full typed from vs display4 ---------------------------------------------------- File organization:  SequentialD File attributes:    Allocation: 9, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limitH Record format:      Variable length, maximum 255 bytes, longest 48 bytes4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None  C : > But on re-editing, screen displays file, but edt's bound cursorr> : I don't find SET CURSOR BOUND in the line-mode HELP for EDT.9 Sorry, I didn't say that first thing I do is change mode.s  D : > sees an eol in the middle (not exact middle) of displayed lines.G : Can you define "eol"? Do you mean that a <CR><LF> pair appears in thee : middle of the line? > For example, if I move cursor to first character of line after? a "corrupted" line, and then press <-- left arrow, cursor moves B to somewhere in the "middle" of previous line (as it's displayed),> rather than to cell following last character of previous line.  F : > Trying to edit further loses the text past eol, and messes up file1 : > in various and sundry other complicated ways.,  H : Sorry, you'll have to be a bit more specific. Anything you can post by+ : cut-and-paste would be a large help here. F Wish I could... vs is standalone for time being.  From what I've seen,F it'll take me a while to figure out how to network it to (Linux) pc's.E Meanwhile, I'm running it with S3 switch up and Wyse terminal plugged-A into mmj port.  I'll try plugging port into pc running kermit, orLC something like that, instead.  That should be quicker, but probablyl, won't run keypad emulation very well at all.   : (CTRL+W will refresh the : screen in Change mode, BTW.)B Right; I'd forgotten all about it.  As I press it again and again,> display still "messes up" beginning at same point, but does itC in slightly different variations -- loses more or fewer characters,? or lines, etc -- at each press.e  A : >      Without /edt, everything works fine and dandy, but files-/ : > are created with a max 0 (rather than 255).aJ : Not usually a problem, unless some program really "breaks the rules" and : takes things too literally.g   : >  So I tried dumping4B : > files and interpreting the 2-byte counts that I think are used? : > in this format.  But I couldn't decipher dump definitively.u : That's O.k. Takes practice...   C As per previous followup, file actually looks okay now that I spent A some more time to figure out dump.  Seems to be a display-relatedvA problem of some sort rather than a file corruption problem as I'de initially guessed.  D : >      What's going on???  And if it is a file attributes problem,9 : > how can I change the default format saved by ed/edt? f : You don't. : > Would stream/lf- : > be the best for text files? 6 : Not really. SEQ/VAR would be the only choice, AFAIK.  @ : EDT was supposedly made obsolete by TPU, but I've yet to see aI : sufficiently faithful TPU-based EDT emulator for my needs. TPU has sometH : nasty bahaviors, also, that have caused me big problems (and much lost : sleep) in the past.tC I've grown accustomed to edt, so would prefer to have it available.hD But I was _really_ worried about possible file corruption situation.  J : EDT can be used in batch, also, where TPU cannot without a great deal of : programming and effort, IMO.   Thanks for help, John (forkosh@panix.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 15:34:06 +0200 * From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files* Message-ID: <3B977B4E.2020300@tzora.co.il>  = This strikes a familiar chord from back in the mists of time.c9 Try the edit/edt on a _real_ VT - just as a double-check.h9 I have a recollection of some emulators getting mixed up.h5 Also "set term/inq" does not always do all it should.g   ~Mike-   John Forkosh wrote:-  5 > Hoff Hoffman (hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam) wrote:h3 > : forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) writes:eF > : :Just installed vms7.2 on a vs4000/60 and started using ed/edt.... > :tC > :   <discussion of apparent attribute incompatibility/corruption>r > :a > @ > I'm running vs with S3 up, and a Wyse-285 plugged in mmj port,; > running as Device_Type: VT400_Series (I tried various andw= > sundry combinations with same result), and set term/inquirerC > in login.com.  Also tried setting crfill and lffill with no luck.r > Any suggestions?  Thanks,i > John (forkosh@panix.com) >      --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.I? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* E Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337tC    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"IE ---------------------------------------------------------------------p* ------ GEEK CODE BLOCK (Version: 3.1)-----( GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++' N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t X- tv-- b+  DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@o* ---------- END GEEK CODE BLOCK  ----------   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 08:10:02 -0700p- From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman) $ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files< Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0109060710.b61aee1@posting.google.com>  ^ forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) wrote in message news:<9n4rv7$bed$2@news.panix.com>...@ > Just installed vms7.2 on a vs4000/60 and started using ed/edt.I > Files are created as variable length, max 255, cr/lf (as per dir/full).rA > But on re-editing, screen displays file, but edt's bound cursor-B > sees an eol in the middle (not exact middle) of displayed lines.D > Trying to edit further loses the text past eol, and messes up file/ > in various and sundry other complicated ways. ? >      Without /edt, everything works fine and dandy, but filesvA > are created with a max 0 (rather than 255).  So I tried dumpingi@ > files and interpreting the 2-byte counts that I think are used= > in this format.  But I couldn't decipher dump definitively.    Did you try DUMP/RECORD?  ? If you wish to interpret DUMP/BLOCK, then variable length fileseD contain a two-byte header prefix for each line. This prefix containsF the number of characters in the line. At the end of the line, you willD find another 2-byte prefix that contains the number of characters in that line. And so on.   F You can also try $ TYPE filename.ext to see the contents of the file.   B >      What's going on???  And if it is a file attributes problem,G > how can I change the default format saved by ed/edt?  Would stream/lfw& > be the best for text files?  Thanks, > John (forkosh@panix.com)   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant afeldman@gfigroup.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:00:42 -0500 From: Hauser@Fauske.comc Subject: eXcursion QuestionmF Message-ID: <4E1C1F1AC66D3743BC95ACBC8DA96726023256@server.FAUSKE.COM>  H A Fortran generated executable is launched from my "LOGIN.COM" file. TheJ executable requests some information from the user at login time. While itI works fine from a VT type terminal and from local DECterms running on vaxaI and alpha workstations, it fails on PC's connected via eXcursion V3.0.571vE with the application being $create/terminal/detached. It seems that anK connection is made, but the terminal window never appears on the PC screen.tG If I remove the executable launch from my LOGIN.COM everything works aslJ expected. Is there any way to make this work? VMS version is V7.2-1. Motif version is 1.2-5.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:19:28 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> Subject: Re: eXcursion Question-, Message-ID: <3B973FA0.31856AA0@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Hauser@Fauske.com wrote: > J > A Fortran generated executable is launched from my "LOGIN.COM" file. TheL > executable requests some information from the user at login time. While itK > works fine from a VT type terminal and from local DECterms running on vaxlK > and alpha workstations, it fails on PC's connected via eXcursion V3.0.571aG > with the application being $create/terminal/detached. It seems that aaM > connection is made, but the terminal window never appears on the PC screen.lI > If I remove the executable launch from my LOGIN.COM everything works ashL > expected. Is there any way to make this work? VMS version is V7.2-1. Motif > version is 1.2-5.i  @ Your login.com is executed twice when creating an X-window based
 session.   Recoding to use something like:d  5 $ IF F$MODE() .EQS. "INTERACTIVE" THEN RUN executableo  E will probably solve your problem.  In fact, if your login.com has any6H code that interacts with a terminal (e.g., SET TERM/INQUIRE) or with the? user, you should verify that you are in INTERACTIVE mode beforei> executing it.  I'll bet, for example, that you don't want your. executable to run when you submit a batch job.  
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:02:01 -0400 From: <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: FW: User FriendlyK Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75004BC5895@rlghncst625.usps.gov>-  ) Hey!!! *I* suggested PackPaq yesterday!!!    I demand royalties!e   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----0 From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:47 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: User Friendly    ; There is a reference to the new HP/Compaq/Digital/Tandem in > today's User Friendly cartoon at http://www.userfriendly.org/.   David R. Beattyo   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:26:01 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>0 Subject: RE: How to backup a directory structure- Message-ID: <0033000034349398000002L082*@MHS>!  3 =0AIf it's a system disk, might I suggest /NOALIAS?H   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET . > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:34 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET2 > Subject: RE: How to backup a directory structure >m >i > Lyndon Bartels wrote:w > >9 > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > > >e> > > > I want to do a disk-to-disk backup. But I don't want the > disks, I wanti? > > > to copy over the directory and sub-directory structure...  > > > " > > > Any good ways of doing that? > > >D	 > > > Tiao > > >? > > > Lyndon > > F > > I'm sorry about my previous posting. In my verve to post, I didn't > > thoroughly proof-read. > >"H > > What I meant was, I want to replicate the directory structure of on= eC5 > > disk onto another. I don't want the files in eache9 > > directory/sub-directory (see "I don't want the disks"e > above. oops) Just  > > the directory tree.e > >m! > > I hope that makes more sense.o > > > > > The contents of the directories are short term, and can be > lost, but if< > > the disk were to be lost, or moved, or whatever, all the > directories,E > > and subdirectories need to be present for the application to work.D > > correctly..... So I really only need to be able to replicate the > > directory structure. > >G > > Any thoughts?> > H > Well, yeah, actually BACKUP might do that, but to try it, ya gotta do=   > the unthinkable: >>; > $ BACKUP ddcu:[000000...]*.*/EXCLUDE=3D[000000...]*.*;* ->' > ddcu:[000000...]*.*/BY_OWN=3DORIGINAL, >e > I've found that@ >eH > $ BACKUP SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0...]*.*;*/EXC=3D[SYS0.SYSCOMMON...]*.*;* = -e > saveset_filespec/SAVE> >>F > ...produces some interesting results. Try it - you may be surprised. >i? > I regret I don't have what I need here to try it out for you.> >>< > If you only need to do it once, let BACKUP copy the files, > then do this > to the target disk:c >e0 > $ DELETE ddcu:[000000...]*.*;*/EXCLUDE=3D*.DIR > & > Another possible variation might be: >n? > $ BACKUP ddcu:[000000...]*.DIR/EXCLUDE=3D[000000]000000.DIR ->' > ddcu:[000000...]*.*/BY_OWN=3DORIGINALp >a% > Dunno. One of these oughtta work...> >E > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsa > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i >=   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 07:20:18 -0700a- From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman).0 Subject: Re: How to backup a directory structure= Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0109060620.2b706bd2@posting.google.com>   d Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message news:<3B96827D.2FCC123D@pressenter.com>... > Lyndon Bartels wrote:a > >  [SNIP]F > What I meant was, I want to replicate the directory structure of one3 > disk onto another. I don't want the files in eachoI > directory/sub-directory (see "I don't want the disks" above. oops) Just  > the directory tree.i >  > I hope that makes more sense.: > I > The contents of the directories are short term, and can be lost, but iffG > the disk were to be lost, or moved, or whatever, all the directories,cC > and subdirectories need to be present for the application to worknB > correctly..... So I really only need to be able to replicate the > directory structure. >  > Any thoughts?h    , $ BACKUP DISK1:[TOPDIR...]*.DIR DISK2:[*...]  3 will duplicate just the directories in [TOPDIR...].b  5 (Replace TOPDIR with the name of your top directory.)?  / $ BACKUP DISK1:[DIR1.DIR2.DIR3...] DISK2:[*...](  1 will do the same for all subdirectories of DIR3. t   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmana afeldman@gfigroup.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 15:10:53 GMTt  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>0 Subject: Re: How to backup a directory structure8 Message-ID: <g24fpt4cqlh1f1jps238iio768a0ce7kmc@4ax.com>  ! Well, first, I'd do it like this:-  % disk1 is old disk, disk2 is new disk:-  4 1.  Preserve top-level directories/protections/acls:E    $ BACKUP DISK1:[000000]*.DIR DISK2:[000000]*.DIR/BY_OWNER=ORIGINALn   2. Backup the directories:     $ BACKUP DISK1:[*]*.DIR -r& 	      DISK2:[*...] /BY_OWNER=ORIGINAL  ) I'm pretty sure that'll do what you need.n    7 On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:38:47 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Lyndon Bartels wrote: >> a >> Lyndon Bartels wrote: >> >K >> > I want to do a disk-to-disk backup. But I don't want the disks, I wante> >> > to copy over the directory and sub-directory structure... >> >! >> > Any good ways of doing that?  >> > >> > Tia >> > >> > Lyndonr >> sE >> I'm sorry about my previous posting. In my verve to post, I didn'tt >> thoroughly proof-read.a >>  G >> What I meant was, I want to replicate the directory structure of one 4 >> disk onto another. I don't want the files in eachJ >> directory/sub-directory (see "I don't want the disks" above. oops) Just >> the directory tree. >> e  >> I hope that makes more sense. >>  J >> The contents of the directories are short term, and can be lost, but ifH >> the disk were to be lost, or moved, or whatever, all the directories,D >> and subdirectories need to be present for the application to workC >> correctly..... So I really only need to be able to replicate thel >> directory structure.  >> o >> Any thoughts? >pF >Well, yeah, actually BACKUP might do that, but to try it, ya gotta do >the unthinkable:n >t8 >$ BACKUP ddcu:[000000...]*.*/EXCLUDE=[000000...]*.*;* -$ >ddcu:[000000...]*.*/BY_OWN=ORIGINAL >a >I've found that >mE >$ BACKUP SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0...]*.*;*/EXC=[SYS0.SYSCOMMON...]*.*;* -u >saveset_filespec/SAVE > E >...produces some interesting results. Try it - you may be surprised.l >d> >I regret I don't have what I need here to try it out for you. >aH >If you only need to do it once, let BACKUP copy the files, then do this >to the target disk: >p- >$ DELETE ddcu:[000000...]*.*;*/EXCLUDE=*.DIRo >p% >Another possible variation might be:e >p< >$ BACKUP ddcu:[000000...]*.DIR/EXCLUDE=[000000]000000.DIR -$ >ddcu:[000000...]*.*/BY_OWN=ORIGINAL >i$ >Dunno. One of these oughtta work...   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2001 09:24:59 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>i Subject: Re: I hate CompaqH Message-ID: <y4wv3cdbn8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  * nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  @ > You don't need to do that!  WATFIV, for example, checked array= > bounds and argument values (which, in Fortran, are semanticl > constraints) at run-time.  n  I The language standard doesn't mandate such checks, so it is a quality-of- I implementation issue. All compilers I know support such checks. Some eveneL support checking for uninitialised variables and similar things at run time.  @ > However, the real issue is that it forbids aliasing but not in7 > such a way that it can be detected at compile-time.     I True. But then, occam2 tries to do that, but left out the mechanisms thateM allow the programmer to tell the compiler, "trust me, I know what I am doing,eM these two arguments will not alias at run time". And the performance of alias N checking in the initial compiler for anything but toy programs (in particular,K for anything that made serious use of arrays) was abysmal. But I did and dol consider it useful.a  E > Therefore the only way that erroneous aliases can be detected is ato > run-time.   I As long as you have indepedent compilation, it's very difficult to do thevI necessary interface checking completely at compile time. occam2 could do bN this because it didn't have Fortran's "dusty decks" to cope with and thereforeC could mandate that the programmer supply the necessary information.    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2001 09:26:02 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e Subject: Re: I hate CompaqH Message-ID: <y4u1ygdblh.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  , Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> writes:  F > > Most serious benchmarks require an announced shipping date in the  > > not-too-distant future. B > Quite. I was referring to benchmarks for machines where I expect> > Compaq to bid EV7/Marvel at least for part of the bid (givenG > timeframes), and you'd expect, if EV7s in Marvels really were runningsI > (and in quantity) on anything close to a production system, that peopledD > would rely on the real hardware rather than projections from EV6x.  K Yes, that is clear. You do whatever is needed to convince the customer 8-).a   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2001 09:29:08 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>c Subject: Re: I hate CompaqH Message-ID: <y4r8tkdbgb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  6 "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth.net> writes:  @ > So? Given the new political developments, is the EV7 still on?M > What about the supposed contractual obligations for computer upgradeability : > that seemed to argue that it would need to be delivered?# > Now that Compaq is to be no more?f  K That doesn't void the contractual obligations, if any. The only way to voidoL contractual obligations is to die, and for your heirs to reject the heirloomH - but that is an all-or-nothing, as well as a do-or-die proposition 8-).   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:23:18 +0200a* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> Subject: Re: I hate Compaq/ Message-ID: <3B975CA6.7080506@brussels.sgi.com>e   Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:# > Now that Compaq is to be no more?i > :)C Given the termns of the merger, the new entity (called HP, althoughn; I'm referring to it as Haitche-paq internally ;) ) inherits  the obligations of Compaq.     -- .? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer>1) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems Engineera. SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 15:55:21 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>L Subject: Re: Intel has released Hyper-threading for it's next gen processors( Message-ID: <3B978E58.7E1CA3F@127.0.0.1>   Warren Spencer wrote:t > H > billtodd@foo.mv.com (Bill Todd) wrote in <9moka3$9r2$1@pyrite.mv.net>: >  > >@8 > >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message& > >news:3B8F50CF.E5EE41A0@127.0.0.1... > >> mist dragon wrote:0 > >> > > >> > Look at > >> >D > >> > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2809007,00.html > >> >J > >> > While not exactly the same as SMT planned for future gens of Alpha,# > >> > still quite close isn't it ?s > >># > >> Now thats a surprise isn't it.n > >hI > >No - at least not if the technology is the 'Jackson' that's been beingr  > >talked about for a while now. > >uL > >It seems to be only 2-way rather than 4-way (as EV8 was scheduled to be),J > >and there was no mention of the ability to use more functional units toF > >widen single-thread issue (as EV8 would have).  But it does tend toG > >underscore the thesis that SMT fits easily into an OOO architecture.  > > 	 > >- billi > >o > >>M > >> It is a pity that Paul DeMone is not going to be writing more because as8E > >> technical details emerge I'd be interested to read his analysis.-  pH > I'd venture a guess that this capability has been laying dormant untilI > Intel procured the intellectual property rights from Compaq.  I'd bet arI > nickel (maybe more) this feature was part of the legal squabble between-# > Intel and Compaq a few years ago.0  B Gosh. That took a long time to work out didn't it. I didn't say itF though, but I'm glad someone made the observation. Perhaps this threadB was ignored because people found something else to try to be angry about.  : It's probably lucky we only have one room for an argument. -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:18:25 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>P Subject: IT personal is just a commodity (was Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff)@ Message-ID: <20010906141825.77662.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  4 In my personal opinion IT people is just a commodity5 for these CEOs .... they dont thin in their families,h1 etc ! Should be better to have robots working for  them.n  0 I would like to have an option of second career., The universities shoulnd gratuate so many IT0 professionals nowadays. The market is "stopped".0 It is just creating people to be fired tomorrow.6 Would be better more architects, doctors, etc. like 203 years ago ! Just people to work with the tools, ande not   "people to create the tools".=20  
 Regards=20   FC=202      3 --- Rupert Pigott <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com> wrote:t3 > I think that the email must have been edited. I'me > sure the "Warm regards"  > should be "You're fired".o >=204 > Classic Executive BS though. As far as I know this > kind of email achieves > two objectives.?/ > 1) Reminding employees of where they stand by  > patronising them.k > 2) Ego stroking for the Exec.O >=203 > On a slightly diff topic, doesn't anyone ever get- > upset with the fact that6 > these letters are always talking about the employees > as robot slaves rather > than human beings ?1 >=20	 > Cheers,8 > Rupert >=202 > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message& > news:3B953FB0.D47D9564@virgin.net...3 > > The Inquirer has a copy of the email from HP toa > Compaq staff:l > > + > > http://www.theinquirer.net/04090116.htmo > >E > > =3D=3D=3D=3D > >  > >   Carly's memo to Compaq > >   staffn > >d$ > >   Got hold of Curly's email list > >i, > >   By Mike Magee, 04/09/2001 21:00:07 BST > >n5 > >   HERE'S THE TEXT OF CARLY'S "personal" letter toe0 > >   Compaq employees, full of some high-flying > thoughts,m5 > >   and the immortal line "I believe we will changey > the 2 > >   world". This is top stuff. Apply an onion to
 > your eye5 > >   before you start reading, or if you're British,  > make sure " > >   your upper lip is stiff. =B5 > >n
 > > =3D=3D=3D  > > Full text at:i > >e+ > > http://www.theinquirer.net/04090116.htmi > > -- > > Alan Greig > >r > >  >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DbL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dn F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazila fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D.  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 08:52:32 -0700d+ From: Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com>sT Subject: Re: IT personal is just a commodity (was Re: Carly's email to Compaq staff)1 Message-ID: <3B979BC0.77394094@email.sps.mot.com>s  J I have co-workers who are going to the IT cram schools. They don't care i= f theyJ learn anything. All they want is a diploma that most companies recognize = as aJ 4-year degree. It's probably the only way some of them will ever see a co= llegehJ degree!  I have been scanning the job sites (monster.com, dice.com, etc,)=  andJ am discovering that most of the IT computer jobs that required 4-year deg= reesJ now list a high school diploma as a minimum requirement. Of course the wa= ges6J are also starting to degrade because of the number of people and educatio= neJ requirements. So... it would seem logical that CEOs would consider IT emp= loyeesJ commodities just like the worker units that work in manufacturing. There = are a-J lot of people (with less experience, less education) out there that are m= ore % than willing to work for lower wages.o   Lindai   Fabio Cardoso wrote:  6 > In my personal opinion IT people is just a commodity7 > for these CEOs .... they dont thin in their families,m3 > etc ! Should be better to have robots working forr > them.o >.2 > I would like to have an option of second career.. > The universities shoulnd gratuate so many IT2 > professionals nowadays. The market is "stopped".2 > It is just creating people to be fired tomorrow.8 > Would be better more architects, doctors, etc. like 205 > years ago ! Just people to work with the tools, andi > nots > "people to create the tools".t >b	 > Regardst >T > FC > 5 > --- Rupert Pigott <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com> wrote:b5 > > I think that the email must have been edited. I'mN > > sure the "Warm regards"k > > should be "You're fired".i > >y6 > > Classic Executive BS though. As far as I know this > > kind of email achieves > > two objectives. 1 > > 1) Reminding employees of where they stand byp > > patronising them.d! > > 2) Ego stroking for the Exec.  > > 5 > > On a slightly diff topic, doesn't anyone ever get  > > upset with the fact that8 > > these letters are always talking about the employees > > as robot slaves rather > > than human beings ?m > >w > > Cheers, 
 > > Rupert > >e4 > > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message( > > news:3B953FB0.D47D9564@virgin.net...5 > > > The Inquirer has a copy of the email from HP to. > > Compaq staff:h > > >t- > > > http://www.theinquirer.net/04090116.htmn > > >  > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D > > >  > > >   Carly's memo to Compaq
 > > >   staff  > > > & > > >   Got hold of Curly's email list > > >e. > > >   By Mike Magee, 04/09/2001 21:00:07 BST > > >e7 > > >   HERE'S THE TEXT OF CARLY'S "personal" letter tol2 > > >   Compaq employees, full of some high-flying
 > > thoughts,t7 > > >   and the immortal line "I believe we will changeh > > they4 > > >   world". This is top stuff. Apply an onion to > > your eye7 > > >   before you start reading, or if you're British,0
 > > make sure $ > > >   your upper lip is stiff. =B5 > > >  > > > =3D=3D=3D  > > > Full text at:S > > >[- > > > http://www.theinquirer.net/04090116.htm  > > > -- > > > Alan Greig > > >  > > >u > >o > >t >s > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DtK > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazild > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brK > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=b =3D=3D >n4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?J > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messe= nger > http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 14:52:36 GMT ) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)gC Subject: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft-' Message-ID: <9n82jk$8lb$1@joe.rice.edu>a Keywords: microsoft,no_breakup  7 http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/topstory2/1037408r6 Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>G Subject: Re: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsofth@ Message-ID: <20010906160537.86566.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   Break MS for what ?e    ' I dont know why this paranoid about MS.s And it is arriving here in .BR  0 Do they have a real concurrent ? No 5 years ago.0 Before the Linux "paranoid" there was not a real0 concurrent. Nobody tried. Nobody wanted to be MS. concurrent. Everybody was satisfied to be a MS2 partner. So they grew up. Well, there is Apple,=202 but it is another story. There was Amiga - cheaper5 machines and a cheap OS,  better than Linux for "homet5 appliances" and "education". Gateway bought the AmigaD' license and today it is a soft company.e  4 The Workers Party and Linux Companies are dening the5 Gov. to buy 230.000 PCs with Windows 98 to the publicS5 schools. Of course for TCO purpose I would prefer Sune5 Rays from Sun Microsystems. But the brazilians prefer / the easy things, and we are fully adapted to MS-. Windows. Linux is for "technicians" only.  For4 specialized users which knows what is a "partition",0 ls -al, awk, grep and such things from the "Open6 Consortium". For them to be a IT professional you must6 know this salad of letters. Instead of improve the GUI4 and create "plug-play" mechanisms to make the things  become easier for the customers.  6 As I said a long time ago: if MS didnt exist we should4 be using 3270 terminals to read this "BITNET" group.   Regardsr   FC=20D        . --- Jerry Leslie <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote: >o7 http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/topstory2/1037408 . > Bush administration drops effort to break up	 Microsoftn     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dd F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilr fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dr  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.com>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:39:12 -0400+ From: "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com>sG Subject: Re: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up Microsoft>+ Message-ID: <9n8cc9$2bm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>o  ; "P. Thompson" <thompson-nospam@new.rr.com> wrote in messageoD news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0109061235001.11090-100000@malacandra.localnet...* > On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Fabio Cardoso wrote: >c: > > As I said a long time ago: if MS didnt exist we should8 > > be using 3270 terminals to read this "BITNET" group. >WB > The internet became what it is in spite of m$ not because of it.  D It seems to me that the existence of a very large number of personalE computers with modems, TCP/IP and PPP, made a substantial difference.  --
 John SaundersY jws@ma.ultranet.com*   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 17:36:55 GMTs0 From: "P. Thompson" <thompson-nospam@new.rr.com>G Subject: Re: OT: Bush administration drops effort to break up MicrosoftoJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109061235001.11090-100000@malacandra.localnet>  ( On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Fabio Cardoso wrote:  8 > As I said a long time ago: if MS didnt exist we should6 > be using 3270 terminals to read this "BITNET" group.  @ The internet became what it is in spite of m$ not because of it.  7 BITNET died out before M$ had any internet to speak of.-   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Pagefile questionss@ Message-ID: <20010906141142.18877.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  	 HP Peoples    , I created a report by AUTOGEN and I have the1 information below regarding to the PAGEFILES use.y/ I would like to reduce  the number of PAGEFILEs,5 spreaded in my disks. May I just create two PAGEFILEsa4 in two different disks adding the usage sizes of all3 in a new files ? I think the number of PAGEFILES is 6 excessive - it was a VAX/VMS heritage. Nowadays I have  # Alphaservers 4100 with 4 GB of RAM.t      Page and Swap file calculations:  --------------------------------   PAGEFILE1_SIZE information (fort& DISCO01:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE1.SYS;1):         Feedback information. 5            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500r2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 2673602            PAGEFILE1_SIZE will be modified to hold 1199500 blocks   PAGEFILE2_SIZE information (forg& DISCO02:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE2.SYS;1):         Feedback information. 5            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500a2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1278082            PAGEFILE2_SIZE will be modified to hold 1199500 blocks   PAGEFILE3_SIZE information (forn& DISCO03:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE3.SYS;1):         Feedback information.c5            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500b2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1188002            PAGEFILE3_SIZE will be modified to hold 1199500 blocks       PAGEFILE4_SIZE information (for & DISCO04:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE4.SYS;1):         Feedback information.r5            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500u2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1344642            PAGEFILE4_SIZE will be modified to hold 1199500 blocks   PAGEFILE5_SIZE information (for>& DISCO05:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE5.SYS;1):         Feedback information.a5            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500s2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1523042            PAGEFILE5_SIZE will be modified to hold 1199500 blocks   PAGEFILE6_SIZE information (forV& DISCO06:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE6.SYS;1):         Feedback information.s5            Old value was 859900, New value is 1199500 2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1240162            PAGEFILE6_SIZE will be modified to hold 1199500 blocks   PAGEFILE7_SIZE information (for-& DISCO07:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE7.SYS;1):         Feedback information.u5            Old value was 859900, New value is 1199500c2            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 122464L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=	 =3D=3D=3Ds       =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DtL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Da F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilf fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dt  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 17:10:01 +0200o2 From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de> Subject: Re: Pagefile questionso+ Message-ID: <3B9791C9.4010609@arcormail.de>   7 Yes, you may reduce the numbers of Pagefiles! We mostlyh8 user one file on a separate disk. If you add a line like? PAGEFILE =3D 0 and SWAPFILE =3D 0 then AUTOGEN will stop trying. to resize them.e   Thomas   Fabio Cardoso wrote:   > HP Peoplem >=20 >=20. > I created a report by AUTOGEN and I have the3 > information below regarding to the PAGEFILES use.-1 > I would like to reduce  the number of PAGEFILEs57 > spreaded in my disks. May I just create two PAGEFILEsj6 > in two different disks adding the usage sizes of all5 > in a new files ? I think the number of PAGEFILES is.8 > excessive - it was a VAX/VMS heritage. Nowadays I have >=20% > Alphaservers 4100 with 4 GB of RAM.t >=20 >=20" > Page and Swap file calculations:" > -------------------------------- >=20! > PAGEFILE1_SIZE information (forg( > DISCO01:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE1.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.n7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500e4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 2673604 >            PAGEFILE1_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >=20! > PAGEFILE2_SIZE information (fort( > DISCO02:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE2.SYS;1): >         Feedback information. 7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500e4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1278084 >            PAGEFILE2_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >=20! > PAGEFILE3_SIZE information (for)( > DISCO03:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE3.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.a7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500I4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1188004 >            PAGEFILE3_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >=20 >=20 >=20! > PAGEFILE4_SIZE information (fori( > DISCO04:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE4.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.a7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500b4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1344644 >            PAGEFILE4_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >=20! > PAGEFILE5_SIZE information (fort( > DISCO05:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE5.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.a7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500e4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1523044 >            PAGEFILE5_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >=20! > PAGEFILE6_SIZE information (for-( > DISCO06:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE6.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.a7 >            Old value was 859900, New value is 1199500 4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1240164 >            PAGEFILE6_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >=20! > PAGEFILE7_SIZE information (fora( > DISCO07:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE7.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.h7 >            Old value was 859900, New value is 1199500o4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 122464K > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=sL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DuK > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0 =3D=3D > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilh > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brK > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D >=204 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?J > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messe= nger > http://im.yahoo.comk >=20     --=20O9 Thomas H. Pauli, Hammersteinstr.19, 14199 Berlin, Germany-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 10:18:15 -0500t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h Subject: Re: Pagefile questionss3 Message-ID: <4J90RQoqHk43@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <20010906141142.18877.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:p  B 	One major gotcha... a process can at most use 4 pagefiles (unless; 	this has changed, sorry no reference handy).  I got bit byt? 	a site that thought.. "hey , let's make a bunch of them", theyMF 	had 10.  Came a time a large process ran up maxed out the 4 pagefilesA 	that were mapped (they were unequal sizes and unfortunately this-! 	process didn't map a large one).   : 	Those pagefiles (from max used) probably aren't that hot.  = 	I'd consolodate to 4 across 2 RAID1 volumes.  Your pagefilesy= 	are on RAID?  Preferrably write-back cache enabled RAIDsets.o3 	If not, you have 7 single points of failure below.   B 	(I am assuming that you can verify I/O of pagefiles over a periodE 	of days, this may not be easy to isolate without a performance tool.=? 	If they are on their own volume you can probably run MONI DISK=> 	and summarize.  If not, you may not be able to zero in unlessB 	I am overlooking or forgetting a technique.  Point is.. you don'tA 	want to saturate your pagefiles with I/O if you can avoid it and. 	it appears you can)._   					Rob     > HP People_ >  > . > I created a report by AUTOGEN and I have the3 > information below regarding to the PAGEFILES use.a1 > I would like to reduce  the number of PAGEFILEs 7 > spreaded in my disks. May I just create two PAGEFILEs56 > in two different disks adding the usage sizes of all5 > in a new files ? I think the number of PAGEFILES iss8 > excessive - it was a VAX/VMS heritage. Nowadays I have > % > Alphaservers 4100 with 4 GB of RAM.o >  > " > Page and Swap file calculations:" > -------------------------------- > ! > PAGEFILE1_SIZE information (forr( > DISCO01:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE1.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.h7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500m4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 2673604 >            PAGEFILE1_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks > ! > PAGEFILE2_SIZE information (forO( > DISCO02:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE2.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.o7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500s4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1278084 >            PAGEFILE2_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks > ! > PAGEFILE3_SIZE information (forp( > DISCO03:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE3.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.f7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500n4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1188004 >            PAGEFILE3_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks >  >  > ! > PAGEFILE4_SIZE information (for ( > DISCO04:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE4.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.s7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500 4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1344644 >            PAGEFILE4_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks > ! > PAGEFILE5_SIZE information (for ( > DISCO05:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE5.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.d7 >            Old value was 860000, New value is 1199500e4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1523044 >            PAGEFILE5_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks > ! > PAGEFILE6_SIZE information (fort( > DISCO06:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE6.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.s7 >            Old value was 859900, New value is 1199500 4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 1240164 >            PAGEFILE6_SIZE will be modified to hold > 1199500 blocks > ! > PAGEFILE7_SIZE information (forr( > DISCO07:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE7.SYS;1): >         Feedback information.h7 >            Old value was 859900, New value is 1199500 4 >            Maximum observed usage (blocks): 122464N > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=N > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D  >  >  >  > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D  > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brN > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3Dt > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?N > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger= >  > http://im.yahoo.come   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 11:47:12 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Pagefile questionsn3 Message-ID: <qv7gcAUiBp7U@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <4J90RQoqHk43@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:3 > s > In article <20010906141142.18877.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:n > D > 	One major gotcha... a process can at most use 4 pagefiles (unless/ > 	this has changed, sorry no reference handy)._    On Alpha it has gone away.  See:  8 file:///VMSDOC073/v73/6620/6620pro_004.html#large_pf_sec   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 12:43:45 -0500-+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: Re: Pagefile questionsi3 Message-ID: <idDmqXNjoEzJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <qv7gcAUiBp7U@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:fc > In article <4J90RQoqHk43@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:f >> tt >> In article <20010906141142.18877.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes: >> fE >> 	One major gotcha... a process can at most use 4 pagefiles (unlessf0 >> 	this has changed, sorry no reference handy). > " > On Alpha it has gone away.  See: > : > file:///VMSDOC073/v73/6620/6620pro_004.html#large_pf_sec  ? 	Thanks Larry.... and yes they were VAXes that had the problem.c   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:34:28 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o Subject: Re: RIP Bill Gatesf8 Message-ID: <o5deptkrfpd64eab1oecvikk72u2ffu143@4ax.com>  B On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:29:42 GMT, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:   >O3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messageu3 >news:a3acpt0mmkb09dso07g68ljqfg834547ev@4ax.com... F >> I'll be bloody happy if they do but numerous Compaq apologists haveE >> been spinning that Compaq intended to compete with Microsoft using.D >> Alpha and VMS/Tru64 ever since the cancellation of Alpha/NT. BothG >> myself and Bill seem to have had a better track record of predictingeI >> the future than those who said Compaq would compete against Microsoft.  >cB >Do you know what the expression "Waiving the bloody shirt" means?  ? Have you heard the expression "sticking your head in the sand"?t -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 05:33:44 -0500"- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: RIP Bill Gates 3 Message-ID: <1He$JJlrlU7J@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  Q In article <3B9702BD.F0A643B4@aster.si>, Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si> writes:  > Bill Todd wrote: >> e; >> "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote in messagey( >> news:sb95e23e.044@AAASMTA.aaas.org... >> t >> ... >  >> sI >> No more or less than it meant when they were available on separate butDN >> respectable hardware platforms.  In particular, since HP/UX is a big-endianH >> system and Tru64 is a little-endian system, any real consolidation isM >> guaranteed to produce a winner and a loser (and it's not clear that either_N >> has enough to contribute to the other for any technology transfer to be anyC >> more efficient than developing desired facilities from scratch).. >> . >> >	 >> - bill- > . > Both systems will be ported to Titanium. So?  B Which can run big-endian or little-endian, but perhaps not both atD the same time.  Even if it could, having end-user programs "declare"B whether they are expecting a big endian or a little endian machine would be an incredible kludge.  F Each company was planning on using IA-64 in the endian-mode compatible with their heritage.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:01:08 -0400- From: "www.islandco.com" <sales@islandco.com>s Subject: Re: Status of Alpha/ Message-ID: <tpf3e1722ed9a4@news.supernews.com>s  ; "Burnie M" <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> wrote in messageu2 news:7kjdptso4b45br291cmqgk4q9mcrl7l0pm@4ax.com...B > Yes, but don't worry about it. You missed something much bigger. >e >oB > On 5 Sep 2001 09:15:57 -0700, net2res@aol.com (Bob Sikes) wrote: > 
 > >Hello All,  > >s6 > >I noticed while flipping thru the postings, someone8 > >mentioned the end of Alphas?    I have been knee deep9 > >in code for the past two years...did I miss something?l > >eA > >Sorry, I'm still getting over KO leaving...Best To All!!   Bobg    @ Yeah.. John Lennon was shot and they brought back Rockford Files   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 10:19:31 -0700o' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>e, Subject: The analysts weigh in on the merger+ Message-ID: <3B97B023.23E1E478@caltech.edu>0  @ Seems like only Carly and Cappy think this merger's a good idea.  E The slight silver lining to this debacle has been some amusing quotes@ from financialF analysts, folks I don't usually associate with a lots of yucks.  These two were in theoD LA Times yesterday, the links will probably fail after a day or two.  = http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-090501carly.storyI  C   Asked whether he would rather see HP led by Fiorina or Compaq CEOlC    Michael Capellas, one analyst asked for anonymity, then groaned.S  =   "Those are my only choices?" he said. "I pick [IBM CEO] Lout
    Gerstner."S   ande  7 http://www.latimes.com/business/la-000071663sep05.storyE  +    "This is like leaning two drunks againstP&     each other to get them to stand up/     straight," said Lou Mazzucchelli, a partnerl+     with Ridgewood Capital Management. "Thes)     odds of it working out approaches theS     infinitesimal."t   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu  I *************************************************************************i  ' *                  RIH Compaq (H != HP)v *eI *************************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:11:13 -0400i5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>: Subject: User Friendly2 Message-ID: <YHWXOwOyEVxbvkU5qnPuBvttVznM@4ax.com>  ; There is a reference to the new HP/Compaq/Digital/Tandem in0> today's User Friendly cartoon at http://www.userfriendly.org/.   David R. BeattyE   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:45:47 +0200$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch>' Subject: VMS NFS and PC-NFS (Reflexion)  Message-ID: <3b9761eb$1@hcwe67>    Hello,  K can someone explain in detail, what it needs to access a VMS Disk, exportedAK with NFS, to be accessed by a PC (NT) using the Reflexion tool. In our case K the VMS Disk can be accessed without problem from Linux or True64 Machines,0K but Reflexion always comes back saying: Cannot read targets file system (orSH similar). We are using HPs (:-)) TCPIP Services for VMS. Ping works fine from the PC.   best regards   JakobS   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:51:54 +0200< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>+ Subject: Re: VMS NFS and PC-NFS (Reflexion) 4 Message-ID: <9n7v1s$5t9ja$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   Jakob Erber wrote...L >can someone explain in detail, what it needs to access a VMS Disk, exportedL >with NFS, to be accessed by a PC (NT) using the Reflexion tool. In our caseL >the VMS Disk can be accessed without problem from Linux or True64 Machines,L >but Reflexion always comes back saying: Cannot read targets file system (orI >similar). We are using HPs (:-)) TCPIP Services for VMS. Ping works fineD
 >from the PC.=   (assuming UCX on the VMS side)  L NFS is based on UID/GID which the *ix machines have and the PC doesn't have.  K To supply UID/GID to PCs is the PCNFS service's task; it connects VMS users=C with a UID/GID (and eventually a hostname). See $ TCPIP ADD PROXY ._  K One caveat: you need to have a proxy entry for UCX$NOBODY, mapped to -2/-2.n   cu,g   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deuJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:42:44 GMTa" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?; Message-ID: <EVEl7.1211$ht1.1097739@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>    Rob Young wrote:  E > In article <9n702f$7li$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (JerryS > Leslie) writes:i7 >>    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.htmld@ >>    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech News -  CNET.com >>  ' >>    HP to have merger map in 100 days? >>    By Michael KanellosF! >>    Staff Writer, CNET News.comX% >>    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT  >> sK >>    Like a newly inaugurated president, the new Hewlett-Packard is giving:8 >>    itself 100 days to flesh out its strategic vision. >> fK >>    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide marketing for the businessiJ >>    customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that the transition team chargedE >>    with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq Computer will try to1B >>    formalize a strategy for how the new company will operate in >>    relatively short order.0 >>    .Y >>    .F >>    .1J >>    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. BecauseH >>    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multipleH >>    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,; >>    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others.E >> FJ >>    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according toL >>    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road mapE >>    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfoliol! >>    without alienating them..."_ >> i >  > Let's see....I > < > HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple server! > operating systems, for example:0 > - > Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS, HP-UX and Tru64s   Rob, You forgot NSK.  Again.   >  > Converges to:Z >  > Linux, NT and Unix >  > and eventually converges to: >  > Linux, Windows 2000  > F > After all, even IBM points out Linux is the future and AIX long term" > will morph into Linux I suppose. > B > That's fine by me.  Here is a clue to make sure that is a smoothC > transition and won't alienate your customer base you are about toc > inherit, Mr. McDonnell...f > < > 1)  Gather much data and feedback from existing customers.; > 2)  Consult with senior management, top-notch consultantsN > and VIP customers.> > 3)  Make sure "eventually" works out to be at least 20 years > for OpenVMS.? > 4)  Add an additional 10 years to "eventually", just in case.I > E > Why?  VMS migrations haven't gone well in the past.  No indicationseC > they will go well in the future.  Alienating that large installed G > base could be bothersome to your overall profits, nevermind revenues.3 >  > Rob3 >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 01:48:50 -0500=+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)3> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?3 Message-ID: <a1o8FULab49I@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  ` In article <EVEl7.1211$ht1.1097739@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> writes: > Rob Young wrote: > F >> In article <9n702f$7li$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry >> Leslie) writes:8 >>>    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.htmlA >>>    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech News -  CNET.come >>> ( >>>    HP to have merger map in 100 days >>>    By Michael Kanellos" >>>    Staff Writer, CNET News.com& >>>    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT >>> L >>>    Like a newly inaugurated president, the new Hewlett-Packard is giving9 >>>    itself 100 days to flesh out its strategic vision.s >>> L >>>    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide marketing for the businessK >>>    customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that the transition team chargedrF >>>    with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq Computer will try toC >>>    formalize a strategy for how the new company will operate int >>>    relatively short order. >>>    . >>>    . >>>    .K >>>    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. Because I >>>    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiplesI >>>    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,n< >>>    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others. >>> K >>>    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according toIM >>>    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road mapcF >>>    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio" >>>    without alienating them..." >>>  >> h >> Let's see.... >> u= >> HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple serveru" >> operating systems, for example: >>  . >> Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS, HP-UX and Tru64 >  > Rob, You forgot NSK.  Again. >   @ 	Yep.  Funny , McDonnell did too.  Guess NSK nor MPE doesn't fit? 	into his plans either. and/or a subset of the OSes are part ofE* 	the discussion and others are safe (NSK).     				RobG   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:52:04 GMTd" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?; Message-ID: <o2Fl7.1216$ht1.1107831@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>    Rob Young wrote:  F > In article <EVEl7.1211$ht1.1097739@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Art Rice > <arice@myhouse.org> writes:  >> Rob Young wrote:  >> -G >>> In article <9n702f$7li$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (JerryC >>> Leslie) writes:F9 >>>>    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.html B >>>>    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech News -  CNET.com >>>>  ) >>>>    HP to have merger map in 100 daysL >>>>    By Michael Kanelloso# >>>>    Staff Writer, CNET News.com_' >>>>    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PTY >>>> GF >>>>    Like a newly inaugurated president, the new Hewlett-Packard isA >>>>    giving itself 100 days to flesh out its strategic vision.s >>>> oD >>>>    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide marketing for theH >>>>    business customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that the transitionH >>>>    team charged with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq ComputerE >>>>    will try to formalize a strategy for how the new company will * >>>>    operate in relatively short order.	 >>>>    .l	 >>>>    .d	 >>>>    . L >>>>    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. BecauseJ >>>>    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multipleJ >>>>    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,= >>>>    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others.i >>>> oL >>>>    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according toJ >>>>    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product roadK >>>>    map that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio # >>>>    without alienating them..."L >>>>   >>>  >>> Let's see....  >>> > >>> HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple server# >>> operating systems, for example:  >>> / >>> Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS, HP-UX and Tru649 >> N >> Rob, You forgot NSK.  Again.  >> m > A > Yep.  Funny , McDonnell did too.  Guess NSK nor MPE doesn't fit @ > into his plans either. and/or a subset of the OSes are part of+ > the discussion and others are safe (NSK).S >  >  > Rob  >  > J A lot can happen over 30 years.  Since ex-HP engineers developed Guardian 4 (NSK), it's a bit ironic how things have turned out.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 19:04:09 +0010=% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auD> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?5 Message-ID: <01K80ZRO3KXU004TSZ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>D   Rob Young wrote:? >		3)  Make sure "eventually" works out to be at least 20 years  >			for OpenVMS.@ >		4)  Add an additional 10 years to "eventually", just in case. >=E >	Why?  VMS migrations haven't gone well in the past.  No indications=C >	they will go well in the future.  Alienating that large installed G >	base could be bothersome to your overall profits, nevermind revenues.i   Rob,  ; I'm not sure whether I am agreeing or disagreeing with you.-  L Your points 3 and 4 are unrealistic.  But you might also be suggesting that.  N According to reports I have read (and have seen cited here), the young loving  couple are both about 46.a  J I cannot see either of them wanting to see this "marriage of convenience"  beyond their retiring ages.t  I The dynamic Carly will want to push the demise of OS's she finds against i% their roadmap as quickly as possible.O  J In another thread, I suggested that our wonderful VMS engineers are going E through what I went through -- writing code that would never come to :$ fruition.  It was hell knowing that.  1 My sympathies to Fred, Hoff, Andy, amonst others.-  I Needless to say, let's hope that some of the big vendees will (can) have Y something to say.:  I I'm too small to have any influence on someone who earns $3.7 million US.    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:52:02 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?) Message-ID: <3B975552.2E1B2DE2@127.0.0.1>7   Jerry Leslie wrote:a > & >    HP to have merger map in 100 days >    By Michael Kanellos  >    Staff Writer, CNET News.com$ >    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT >>    .cI >    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. Because G >    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple G >    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,-: >    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others. > I >    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according tofK >    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road map2D >    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio  >    without alienating them..."  C The writer is wrong, and you're reading the wrong things into this.>  B I cannot and will not discuss my sources, but yet again c.o.v. are panicking over nothing.p  C You'll have to accept my word, but if it's not good enough for you,eH don't spend time arguing with me, retrain yourself, if you think that isG your personal future. If you want to flame someone, flame the writer ofsH the article, and get him to prove what he/his source claims with respect, to VMS. His email is on the page referenced.  B Personally I'll be wheeled out the door from 'a VMS site' into theC crematorium, I'll have a little plate that says "Nic P Clews, Fatal0F bugcheck dd-mm-yyyy". I work on VMS, I'm not employed to fix marketing issues.   & You're entitled to your point of view. -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comb   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:40:30 GMTd= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)A> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?0 Message-ID: <00A01A2F.AAD78E5B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3B975552.2E1B2DE2@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >Jerry Leslie wrote: >> l' >>    HP to have merger map in 100 dayss >>    By Michael Kanellosa! >>    Staff Writer, CNET News.coml% >>    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PTr >>>    .J >>    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. BecauseH >>    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multipleH >>    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,; >>    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others.i >> cJ >>    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according toL >>    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road mapE >>    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolior! >>    without alienating them..."- >-D >The writer is wrong, and you're reading the wrong things into this. >aC >I cannot and will not discuss my sources, but yet again c.o.v. are7 >panicking over nothing. > D >You'll have to accept my word, but if it's not good enough for you,I >don't spend time arguing with me, retrain yourself, if you think that isiH >your personal future. If you want to flame someone, flame the writer ofI >the article, and get him to prove what he/his source claims with respectc- >to VMS. His email is on the page referenced.  >nC >Personally I'll be wheeled out the door from 'a VMS site' into theeD >crematorium, I'll have a little plate that says "Nic P Clews, FatalG >bugcheck dd-mm-yyyy". I work on VMS, I'm not employed to fix marketings >issues.  F ROTFLMAO!!!  I love it.  There couldn't be a more suitable epitaph for4 a VMS bigot!  Slight correction thought: dd-mmm-yyyy   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM2            lJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes@   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:35:40 -0700y+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>e> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?( Message-ID: <3B977BAC.636844D9@mmaz.com>   Rob Young wrote:  D >         HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple server) >         operating systems, for example:y >y5 >         Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS, HP-UX and Tru64a >  >         Converges to:  >r >         Linux, NT and Unix >t& >         and eventually converges to: >  >         Linux, Windows 2000d  U Not that I'm happy about the future of VMS, because I haven't been for some time, butlS at least in this scenario that you propose MS won't be the winner either.  Why?  MSoV wants to push aside all OS's for their XP and I don't know about anyone else here, butU the idea of a software 'lease' rather than a perpetual license is unacceptable not to T mention their pain in this ass registration process.  That said, there leaves little else than Linux...   Regards,   Barry-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 08:38:46 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?3 Message-ID: <v$A8Gqmp7Tbu@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  T In article <3B975552.2E1B2DE2@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Jerry Leslie wrote:  >> -' >>    HP to have merger map in 100 daysS >>    By Michael Kanellosm! >>    Staff Writer, CNET News.comu% >>    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT  >>>    .J >>    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. BecauseH >>    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multipleH >>    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,; >>    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others.l >> cJ >>    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according toL >>    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road mapE >>    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio0! >>    without alienating them..."l > E > The writer is wrong, and you're reading the wrong things into this.  > D > I cannot and will not discuss my sources, but yet again c.o.v. are > panicking over nothing.o >    Nic,  ? 	We are all a wee bit nervous.  And when someone gets somethingt8 	so glaringly wrong, it only exascerbates the situation.  < 	I am going to bookmark that article and when I come to find+ 	out different let Mr. Kanellos know about.o  < 	And yes I trust you... your reputation is still pretty much 	intact in my opinion.   				Robc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:50:23 -0400d) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com> > Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?* Message-ID: <3B977F1F.9010206@townisp.com>  9 This does not say which version of Unix will be selected.    Odds are TRU-64 will also die.    * Between VMS and TRu-64, what will be left?  	 Nothing!!2     Jerry Leslie wrote:   6 >    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.html? >    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech News -  CNET.coms > & >    HP to have merger map in 100 days >    By Michael Kanellos  >    Staff Writer, CNET News.com$ >    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT > J >    Like a newly inaugurated president, the new Hewlett-Packard is giving7 >    itself 100 days to flesh out its strategic vision.  > J >    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide marketing for the businessI >    customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that the transition team chargedjD >    with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq Computer will try toA >    formalize a strategy for how the new company will operate ine >    relatively short order. >    . >    . >    .I >    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. Because G >    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple>G >    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,g: >    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others. > I >    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according tobK >    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product road mapcD >    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio  >    without alienating them..." >  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:23:05 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?@ Message-ID: <20010906152305.59825.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  	 HP Peoples    1 When the first Itanium systems will be released ?   5 I  think in the future HP-UX and Tru64 will be ported>% to a "HP Linux" or a kind of similar.t   Lets see....    a) HP must port HP-UX to Itanium  b) HP must port Tru64 to Itanium  1 Well, if HP will port these two Unixes, I believec) they will not just recompilate the OS ando
 applications.h3 They will create a new OS, and why not Linux-like ? 4 What is the main difference between a brand Unix and5 Linux ? There are so many similiarities. If the greati2 Unix word is "portability", it is not difficult to3 think HP porting both OSes to "HP Linux". IBM is=20 2 making strong investments in Linux. HP will go the same way. Obvius.n  " c) HP Must port OpenVMS to Itanium  3 Probably they will do it, but I think HP should notl5 port OpenVMS to Itanium. Should be easier for them=20 0 stay with Alpha fora long time for this OS. They should4 create a "modular" cabinet with the possibilities of3 use of Alpha and IA64 just changing the processors.c6 Should be a NUMA like with the possibility to use both3 processors. Do you think it is possbible ? They can 4 share the same bus, and devices, but they cant share3 the processing. In a 4 processors NUMA for example,d5 2 Alpha processors  for OpenVMS and 2 IA64 processorsI. for HP Linux or Win64. I think I am flying :-)  ' d) Microsoft will port Win64 to Itaniumo    2 Obvius, recontracting the old Alpha/NT developers.     REgardsb   FC=20o  . --- Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com> wrote:1 > This does not say which version of Unix will be- > selected.e >=20  > Odds are TRU-64 will also die. >=20 >=20, > Between VMS and TRu-64, what will be left? >=20 > Nothing!!a >=20 >=20 > Jerry Leslie wrote:L >=20 > >  =203 > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.html95 > >    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech Newsw
 > -  CNET.como > >=20( > >    HP to have merger map in 100 days > >    By Michael Kanellos" > >    Staff Writer, CNET News.com& > >    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT > >=202 > >    Like a newly inaugurated president, the new > Hewlett-Packard is giving 1 > >    itself 100 days to flesh out its strategich	 > vision.s > >=201 > >    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide0 > marketing for the business3 > >    customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that theP > transition team chargeds1 > >    with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq> > Computer will try to3 > >    formalize a strategy for how the new companye > will operate in  > >    relatively short order. > >    . > >    . > >    .1 > >    HP's transition plan will have to tackle ao > number of issues. Becauser5 > >    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible fori > supporting multipleh4 > >    server operating systems, for example: Linux, > Windows NT, OpenVMS,4 > >    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among	 > others.P > >=204 > >    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT > and Unix, according to5 > >    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming upd > with a product road mapi- > >    that will push customers toward a morei > streamlined OS portfolio" > >    without alienating them..." > >=20 > >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil. fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D>  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.coml   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:39:00 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>-> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?( Message-ID: <9n858t$ie6$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagei# news:3B975552.2E1B2DE2@127.0.0.1...7 > Jerry Leslie wrote:n > > ( > >    HP to have merger map in 100 days > >    By Michael Kanellos" > >    Staff Writer, CNET News.com& > >    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT	 > >>    . K > >    HP's transition plan will have to tackle a number of issues. BecauselI > >    of the merger, HP finds itself responsible for supporting multiple>I > >    server operating systems, for example: Linux, Windows NT, OpenVMS,>< > >    HP-UX and Compaq's own version of Unix, among others. > >oK > >    Eventually, HP will converge toward Linux, NT and Unix, according to.I > >    McDonnell. The challenge will lie in coming up with a product roada map F > >    that will push customers toward a more streamlined OS portfolio" > >    without alienating them..." >sE > The writer is wrong, and you're reading the wrong things into this.  > D > I cannot and will not discuss my sources, but yet again c.o.v. are > panicking over nothing.a  G Maybe, maybe not.  For example, a post on the merger forum at tru64.orgy states:>      Author: itsover (---.compaq.com) Date:   09-06-01 03:46  L As heared internally from one of the great players, tru64 will be stopped asK soon as possible and the service support organisation behind compaq will ben* cutted down to 1/2 or 1/3 of the manpower.C all central organisations will be set free (marketing, sales etc.).s  H openvms will be dead also. an outsourcing contract is not in discussion.C instead a fee to the government will be paid to get rid of this os.e   thanks michael....    H Now, you could be right, or s/he could be right, or both of you could beI full of crap.  The record of those claiming to have inside information on  such issues is hardly good.>   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 04:00:30 -0700n  From: alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.)5 Subject: Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeed>< Message-ID: <88599d89.0109060300.4a0a05e@posting.google.com>  h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<fSg0PIb2A$jW@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j > In article <3.0.5.32.20010904162543.00a0dab0@pop.shentel.net>, Jim Jennis <jhjennis@shentel.net> writes: > > Hi VMS Colleagues! > > N > > I am waiting to see war break out between OpenVMS and MPE/ix camps as well > > as Tru64 v HP-UX.  > >  > G >    The war is over.  Tru64 lost.  That was clear from everything thatjE >    happened yesterday.  The two CEOs claim to have started talking  ? >    because Compaq saw itself doing poorly in the UNIX market.	 > G >    IMHO Tru64 is a much better UNIX than HP-UX, but the sales figuresM! >    vote Tru64 the weakest link.r > E >    What I heard and liked yesterday was a compete against Microsofte >    statement.N  F Can someone pls enlighten me as to what "MPE" is? I have been in a VMS cocoon for a long time.b   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 06:50:10 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n5 Subject: Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeedu3 Message-ID: <2EAvCsEQpoa8@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  _ In article <88599d89.0109060300.4a0a05e@posting.google.com>, alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) writes:aj > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<fSg0PIb2A$jW@eisner.encompasserve.org>...k >> In article <3.0.5.32.20010904162543.00a0dab0@pop.shentel.net>, Jim Jennis <jhjennis@shentel.net> writes:O >> > Hi VMS Colleagues!s >> > dO >> > I am waiting to see war break out between OpenVMS and MPE/ix camps as welli >> > as Tru64 v HP-UX. >> > o >> rH >>    The war is over.  Tru64 lost.  That was clear from everything thatF >>    happened yesterday.  The two CEOs claim to have started talking @ >>    because Compaq saw itself doing poorly in the UNIX market. >> nH >>    IMHO Tru64 is a much better UNIX than HP-UX, but the sales figures" >>    vote Tru64 the weakest link. >>  F >>    What I heard and liked yesterday was a compete against Microsoft >>    statement. > H > Can someone pls enlighten me as to what "MPE" is? I have been in a VMS > cocoon for a long time.e  E It is Hewlett-Packard's non-Unix "legacy" operating system, as VMS is F for Compaq.  I use the term "legacy" in the sense outline by my wife's former boss:  9 	Legacy : a.  Stuff that works and is used in production.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 07:57:43 -0500i- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r5 Subject: Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeedC3 Message-ID: <Bfk1ISEjuWWz@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  R In article <3B9674AA.CD2357B4@virgin.net>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > a > I agree it is possible to put a positive interpretation on some of the statements and you couldrc > conclude that HP intends to compete head on with Microsoft in the datacentre but has thrown a fewn/ > bones at MS to keep them confused for a bit. l  E    I think what they really intended was to find some nice words thatgF    would keep the investors happy.  This doesn't mean technical people;    should count on a certain interpretation of those words.u   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 07:58:20 -0500l- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeedi3 Message-ID: <Nvd+uHheCNRx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <88599d89.0109060300.4a0a05e@posting.google.com>, alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) writes:  > H > Can someone pls enlighten me as to what "MPE" is? I have been in a VMS > cocoon for a long time.   "    HP's non-UNIX operating system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:40:38 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 5 Subject: Re: Why continue with VMS - new hope, indeedr8 Message-ID: <o4vept0uqrmj03upjnphvcjtggm5odcbld@4ax.com>  E On 6 Sep 2001 07:57:43 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)E wrote:   >rF >   I think what they really intended was to find some nice words thatG >   would keep the investors happy.  This doesn't mean technical peoplee< >   should count on a certain interpretation of those words.  C Last I checked the stock prices of both Compaq and HP they had both  failed big time with that goal.a -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:43:48 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) @ Subject: Re: Will Mozilla ever run without crashing DECW server?0 Message-ID: <00A01A1F.5D3A9E1B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <9n6vkd$k27@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:1 >In article <00A019AC.56F7772D@SendSpamHere.ORG>, ? >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:  >>= >>As for the SYS$MANAGER:DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG, here it is:o >>4 >> 4-SEP-2001 23:19:20.1 Hello, this is the X serverG >>This is the DECwindows X11 display server for OpenVMS AXP V7.1-990529 ' >>		compiled on May 29 1999 at 12:43:24o >>Main address = 00028770o >  >[...] >d, >>Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_glx,- >>extension name: glx, entry address 00630180r0 >>Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_X3D_PEX,1 >>extension name: X3D-PEX, entry address 007242D8s2 >>Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_decstereo,3 >>extension name: decstereo, entry address 007E6058e >u >[...] >f3 >>DECWINDOWS DigitalEquipmentCorp. AXP, Release 7.1 7 >>Shareable Image DDX GY, InitOutput loaded at 00A030B0m >y >[...] > M >>Screen 0: depth 24, vclass PseudoColor not allowed, using 8-bit PseudoColor G >>Screen 0  sfb+/TGA  revision # 4   32 bits/pixel  16719296 bytes VRAMe& >>Compiled on May 29 1999, at 12:49:396 >>ffbvmsScreenInit: Call the Default Colormap Creation/ >>ffbvmsScreenInit: Exit from init with successe# >>glScreenInit: Drawlib not loaded.l& >>GLExtensionInit: glScreenInit failed% >>tm_device_init: Drawlib not loaded. ) >>PexExtensionInit: DD_DEVICE_INIT failed- >- >[...] > 2 >> 4-SEP-2001 23:19:32.3 Calling the dispatcher...O >> 5-SEP-2001 10:17:39.6 Connection d1c8830 is closed by Txport (status = 20e4)  >> 5-SEP-2001 15:38:00.6 7 >>Fatal server error:  >> 5-SEP-2001 15:38:00.7  / >> 5-SEP-2001 15:38:00.8 %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abortl >>[ >>Unrecoverable server internal error (error code = 44) found, terminating all connections.S >P@ >>Again, OpenVMS V7.2-1, TCP/IP V5.0A, ZXLp-E3, 384MB of memory. > K >  I see you have Open3D installed (from the extensions).  What version arenG >you running?  It looks like OpenGL and PEX have problems initializing.' >eD >  The version which last "supports" the ZXLp-E3 is 4.4, but that isG >only supported on OpenVMS V7.1 et. al.  Of course, I'm not sure if thetK >hardware support for the ZLXp-Ex is latent in the 4.9x versions so it may '! >have no bearing on your crashes.n  G Hmm.  I'll wait to hear from Fred or Hoff on this but you may be right.c  I I'm getting tired of this non-supported graphics game in VMS.  I've been -H on a search for a year for a "supported" adapter for a 1200 and now it'sI looking like one that *was* supported (shipped with the unit in fact) may  no longer supported. i  H DEC -> CPQ -> HP... Alpha euthanasia... questionable graphics support...I You've really got to love VMS to stick with it in light of all this crap!  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl            >J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesB   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:18:59 GMTu" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq>; Message-ID: <nzEl7.1164$ht1.1075899@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>>   andrew harrison wrote:   > Rob Young wrote: >> NK >> In article <gurman-520E88.23474703092001@news.crosslink.net>, "Joseph B.p# >> Gurman" <gurman@ari.net> writes:w( >> >     Just saw this story on CNN.com. >> >K >> >     VERY odd, after seeing at least one (if not several) business-pagedE >> > columns adivisng HP to get out of the PC and server business andoF >> > concentrate on their core business --- printers. But I guess that2 >> > wouldn't be big enough for Ms. Fiorina's ego. >> >I >> >     My first reaction on seeing the news was that the worst large PCuJ >> > company, Dell, and the next to worst large unix company, Sun, will beF >> > the only ones left standing if there are a couple of bad years toL >> > follow. I can only shudder to think what people who couldn't figure out. >> > what to do with HP will think of OpenVMS. >> >I >>         This is so funny.  I'm sitting here chuckling.  Their combinedTF >>         revenues are $87 billion dollars.  It will take a decade ofG >>         screw-ups and tremendous Sun growth to reach parity.  Relax.t >>   > D > Do you remember HP's purchase of Apollo. Prior to HP buying ApolloE > Sun was the largest Workstation vendor, Apollo second and HP third..D > After the purchase the combined HP/Apollo workstation division wasF > the largest workstation vendor for only 1 quarter and 18 months intoB > the deal all HP had ended up doing was eliminating a competitor. > A > This may not happen in this case but it is also highly unlikelyd? > that the combined HP-Compaq revenues will be equal to the suml> > of the parts. It has never happened in the past, either with! > Compaq->Digital or with Unisys.h   UniWHO?  (sorry, couldn't resist.)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:48:27 GMT " From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqe; Message-ID: <%_El7.1214$ht1.1103883@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>    Bob Kaplow wrote:   H > In article <Wx3l7.174$8x1.252150@typhoon2.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" > <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:sH >> Dell likely forced the day of recognizing for both Compaq and HP.  ItJ >> placed both in the position of either having to dramatically shrink (by
 >> pullingG >> back their PC business) or do something drastic.  But what is likelyUK >> responsible for the merger is Unix.  Compaq's strategy required a stronga? >> data center Unix and Tru64 wasn't getting there fast enough.t >> i? >> DigitalTandemCompaqApolloHP Inc. now has a truly credible...- >> - >>     - Unix Platform >>     - Storage Solution:! >>     - Mainframe Class Platform  >>     - Services Group> >>     - Mangement Softwaree >>     - PC Platform >>     - Handheld Platform >>     - Printer businesse > K > And other than printers, what on that list dod Compaq not have as of lastrJ > week? Do you really think that not having a world class printer businessK > has kept Compaq down? Does DELL have a printer business? Or anything elseID > on that list other than a PC business? Does IBM have one any more? > J > And a really revolting collection of patches. We run Tru64 and HPUX sideJ > by side. HP has done a great job of making DEC, and for the past 3 yearsL > Compaq, look REAL GOOD. Around here, the joke is that HP stands for HourlyJ > Patches. There's got to be a 2 order of magnitude difference between theL > number of patches needed to keep HPUX up and running compared to Tru64. MyL > counterparts who've come from other backgrounds tell me that Tru64 is MUCHG > easier to use and manage than Sun, and HP worse. It's a night and dayt
 > difference.e > K Hmmm, I see that here also.  My K2000 rarely needs attention. I chuckle as rH I watch three Unix admins running themselves ragged applying patches to L HP-UX and SCO.  (Funny, the PBX is running Red Hat 5.2 and isn't due for an E upgrade til next month.  And that only because new hardware is being h added.)s   <Major snippage>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:50:47 +0100& From: "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaq 1 Message-ID: <9n7a23$slu$1@uranium.btinternet.com>u  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9n3016$5l2$1@pyrite.mv.net... >r3 > "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com> wrote in messageo/ > news:9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com...e >= > ...d >aD > > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 will stilll; > > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though.  >0H > Depends on how large a portion of the VMS customer base sticks around.G > Which in turn depends in part on HP's willingness to complete EV7 and  EV7x.  >hE I expect that the new HP will be pretty much forced into providing ani EV7CH class processor by some high ranking customers.  As you know VMS is usedG for some critical functions within government/military.  Not to mention H telecoms, etc.  Hopefully there will be enough customers left to warrant the IA64 port.   > ...i >tD > > By combining the HP and Compaq PC business, and making huge cost cuts,d= > > it is likely that the PC business sector will break even.v >eD > Perhaps.  But this could likely have been the case individually as well, orC > close enough that the difference wouldn't be noticeable.  There's 	 certainly.G > no indication of any real synergy from the combination, just possiblet slightE > reductions in fixed overheads by increases in volumes already largee enough= > to have accomplished most of what reductions were possible.,  H I agree with what you are saying.  I believe that the PC business is the- least reason for combining the two companies.    >e >   As you knowc+ > > Compaq is a lot more than a PC builder.n >o7 > Not since June 25th.  Except for the Tandem division.  >i! >   Compaq have great technology, C > > both hardware and software, especially at the enterprise level.  >tD > Again, as of June 25th they threw most of that (except for Tandem) away.3  F I don't agree.  Obviously the Alpha processor is an incredible device,B but unfortunately that will soon be history :(  Tru64 has the bestF clustering support of any UNIX.  The Alphaserver QBB crossbar switched> architecture is amongst the best high end technology currentlyB available.  Compaq have leading storage technology.  The IA64 dealC didn't throw these things away.  Hopefully the new HP will have thet= sense to nurture these technologies when merging them with HPhE technologies.  Clustering is becoming ever more important, and HP are G currently lacking in this area.  (and the Tandem technology is just notD= available elsewhere.  I can see why HP would want to buy it)..   >>? > > Unfortunately the Compaq name has continued to be much more 
 associatedA > > with PCs and Proliant servers, than Alphaservers and Himalayae servers. > . > And, as it turns out, with very good reason. >5F > > Also, until recently, it seemed that Compaq didn't know what to do with, > > it's enterprise technology and services. >eH > No:  Pfeiffer gave some indication that he did in fact know what to do withB > them.  It's only post-Pfeiffer that Compaq has proved absolutely incompetent A > in that area, and it's only become worse with time, not better.l  F I'm not so sure Pfeiffer really knew how to take Tandem to market.  It. is doing much better now than a few years ago.   >  >   Hopefully under HP, theu7 > > enterprise business will have a better stewardship.t >tC > If HP cared at all about Compaq's assets in that area (other thanh Tandem),G > it wouldn't have allowed Compaq to give them to Intel two months ago.  WithD > Alpha's death warrant, VMS's and Tru64's future was seriously, and probably > fatally, crippled.  G IMHO I think HP do care about some of the technologies in Tru64 and the-C Alphaserver.  That is NOT the same as keeping Tru64 and Alphaserver D alive in their present form of course.  I think the new HP will feel- burdened by VMS, but they have to support it.o   > E > > Also, remember that HP had a big hand in the development of IA64.,H > > Basically they bet their high end server business on this.  With theD > > Compaq/Intel deal, ex Alpha engineers will have a big say in the future > > development of IA64. >.G > Except almost all of the EV8 engineers are already at Intel, with thelG > promise that those EV7 engineers who are still at Compaq will be freei to go F > there as soon as their EV7 chores are done.  HP may well hasten that date,eD > but if it were interested in the Alpha engineers itself it, again, wouldn't? > have allowed the EV8 group to be siphoned off just before the9 acquisition. >s. >   Future IA64 processors should have all the  > > features HP and Compaq want. >gD > It sounds as if you haven't a clue about the nature of what you'reG > suggesting.  This acquisition doesn't in any way alter the difficultye ofF > merging Alpha's technology with EPIC, nor make it any more likely to occur,. > let alone any sooner if it ever does at all.  H I wasn't implying anything of the kind.   From your last two comments, IG think you missed my point.  HP needed a PA Risc replacement.  They needdC the replacement to be cheap (so not solely designed/manufactured byaG them) and it needs to have leading technologies to be at the top of theeG performance curve.  Now when IA64 was just an Intel/HP joint effort, HP D got the first of these benefits, but as we all know, the IA64 is notH exactly the fastest general purpose processor out there.  Now that IntelG have the superior Digital engineers on board, the IA64 should evolve to0C have the leading processor technologies.  The new HP will be mostlyuG competing with IBM and Sun in the UNIX space.  So it will be IBM/Power4ED versus Sun/Sparc versus HP/IA64.  I think HP/IA64 have a much better! chance now than a few months ago.o   >e* >   A combined HP and Compaq should enableH > > IA64 to make big inroads into Sun SPARC and IBM Power4 server sales. >oC > And why is that?  The acquisition has just made VMS's and Tru64'se futureG > even more uncertain than it already was, so no improvement there.  It  willG > occupy the management of both companies for the next year or so, justi as theC > DEC acquisition did, which will hardly make them more competitiveT (ratherl > the opposite).  E I don't think IBM and Sun were very worried by the Alpha/Tru64 due tokC its small market share.  Due to its datacentre position HP probably.G worried them a bit more, but I can imagine IBM and Sun both laughing atfH the IA64 design and UX.  Before the Alpha deal, IA64 was a joke, now theB future is looking much better.  HP have great datacentre exposure,D Compaq have great technical computing exposure etc..  Combined, theyF "could" have a broader market appeal.  Granted, they could mess up big style.0 I agree that uncertainty could wreck everything.   >  >   InG > > the hardware business, server sales, especially at the high end, ish were& > > good margins are still being made. >-8 > Until Compaq screwed up Alpha's future two months ago. >m > >h! > > So this is my take on things:rB > > PCs and Wintel servers - consolidation of models.  Will becomeA > > profitable again.  This should provide good DELL competition.C >5; > Neither has shown any ability to provide such competition 
 individually: > > together, they'll quite possibly be even less able to do so.  E Possibly wishful thinking on my part, sorry.  I just don't like Dell.c   >tF > > UNIX - I can't see a future for separate HP-UX and Tru64 operatingF > > systems.  I guess they will merge over time into one OS.  How this fitsE > > in with the port of Tru64 from Alpha to IA64 is interesting.  Thee fact@ > > that UX already runs on IA64 may be an indicator of a future	 strategy;-E > > add Tru64 capabilities/compatibility on top of UX?  Sun should beo > > nervous about this.B >KC > I'm sure they're just quaking in their boots, rather than rubbings their F > hands thinking about all the new business that is about to be scared theiraF > way (beyond that which they're already picking up from the June 25th > fallout).n  G Lol.  I am sure they are rubbing their hands thinking about all the newiG business that is about to be scared their way very soon.  I was talking- about longer term.   >0G > > OpenVMS - I guess that the IA64 port will still go ahead.  I cannotW seen: > > OpenVMS being actively developed in the future though. >uF > One point on which we agree (though the port is at least as shaky as it was > already).K >lF > > Himalaya - HP don't have an equivalent product.  I think this will be e H > > the least affected business unit.  Hopefully, HP will accelerate theF > > resurgence of this platform.  Himalaya can take business away from SunaA > > and IBM at the high end.  Just look at the recent Sabre deal.  >lF > Not clear how much market-share expansion is possible there:  it's a kind of G > specialized platform.  But if HP has any sense at all, it won't screwn it upe# > (even Compaq knew enough not to).l >v > - bill  = The perception that Himalaya is just a specialist platform isaH misconceived.  A lot of the misconception has been due to the failure ofF Compaq to tell the Tandem story over the last several years.  RecentlyB they have started to say the right things.  The Himalaya is a veryG "open" system to develop applications for, has a very low TOTAL Cost ofeE Ownership and of course has the Nonstop fundamentals of Availability,>= Scalability and Reliability.  Himalayas do require specialist9E systems managers, DBAs and operators, although the last is relatively8D quick to learn.  However, nowadays, application developers need very= little specialist Himalaya knowledge to develop applications.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:07:34 +010070 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqd* Message-ID: <3B9758F6.AE28DA50@uk.sun.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > A > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagey9 > news:Ajsl7.19617$zj5.4929373@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...( > >t9 > > "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com> wrote in message 4 > > news:b3pl7.428$Iw2.27188@petpeeve.ziplink.net...* > > > > Pissing off a 450K user base would% > > > > not be a wise thing to do....T > > >aM > > > I agree.  But I also remember what DEC did to the 36 bit computing usero > > base > > > somewhere around 1980. > > >tK > > > Completely unnecessary, and completely unwise, but the way they went.t > > Same > > > today. > >sI > > Rose Ann Giordano said that fully 95 percent of the customer base wasCN > > retained after the jupiter project was cancelled.  I doubt things would go > > so well with vms!m > G > I regret that we are on violent agreement on this one. But a point too# > consider. HP has yet to kill MPE.h >   7 Sort of, mpe/ix has been on life support for some time.i  9 HP have only recently added support for 1-4 CPU N4000/552 4 which has been available for 2 years, they also only support up to 4 CPU's   5 These are now apparently the largest servers as well o/ as they havn't added support for the SuperDome e or the V Class machines either.   < It very much lags HP-UX in terms of platform support and in 9 this respect is very unlike OpenVMS which seems to have an& reasonable level of parity with Tru64.   Regardsr Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:38:34 GMTe" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqb6 Message-ID: <_eJl7.8$7G6.37172@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Daza wrote:t   > 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9n3016$5l2$1@pyrite.mv.net... >>4 >> "Daza" <blahblah@btinternet.com> wrote in message0 >> news:9n26g8$9oj$1@neptunium.btinternet.com... >> >> ... >>E >> > I imagine that the one time cost of porting OpenVMS to IA64 willi > stilln< >> > make sense.  Don't expect any new functionality though. >>I >> Depends on how large a portion of the VMS customer base sticks around. H >> Which in turn depends in part on HP's willingness to complete EV7 and > EV7x.  >>G > I expect that the new HP will be pretty much forced into providing anh > EV7 J > class processor by some high ranking customers.  As you know VMS is usedI > for some critical functions within government/military.  Not to mentiontJ > telecoms, etc.  Hopefully there will be enough customers left to warrant > the IA64 port. >  >> ... >>E >> > By combining the HP and Compaq PC business, and making huge coste > cuts,e> >> > it is likely that the PC business sector will break even. >>E >> Perhaps.  But this could likely have been the case individually asg
 > well, orD >> close enough that the difference wouldn't be noticeable.  There's > certainlyaH >> no indication of any real synergy from the combination, just possible > slightF >> reductions in fixed overheads by increases in volumes already large > enough> >> to have accomplished most of what reductions were possible. > J > I agree with what you are saying.  I believe that the PC business is the/ > least reason for combining the two companies.h >  >> >>   As you know, >> > Compaq is a lot more than a PC builder. >>8 >> Not since June 25th.  Except for the Tandem division. >>" >>   Compaq have great technology,D >> > both hardware and software, especially at the enterprise level. >>E >> Again, as of June 25th they threw most of that (except for Tandem)t > away.H > H > I don't agree.  Obviously the Alpha processor is an incredible device,D > but unfortunately that will soon be history :(  Tru64 has the bestH > clustering support of any UNIX.  The Alphaserver QBB crossbar switched@ > architecture is amongst the best high end technology currentlyD > available.  Compaq have leading storage technology.  The IA64 dealE > didn't throw these things away.  Hopefully the new HP will have thee? > sense to nurture these technologies when merging them with HP G > technologies.  Clustering is becoming ever more important, and HP are I > currently lacking in this area.  (and the Tandem technology is just notm? > available elsewhere.  I can see why HP would want to buy it).e >  >>@ >> > Unfortunately the Compaq name has continued to be much more > associatedB >> > with PCs and Proliant servers, than Alphaservers and Himalaya
 > servers. >>/ >> And, as it turns out, with very good reason.e >>G >> > Also, until recently, it seemed that Compaq didn't know what to do  > with- >> > it's enterprise technology and services.  >>I >> No:  Pfeiffer gave some indication that he did in fact know what to doi > withC >> them.  It's only post-Pfeiffer that Compaq has proved absolutelyt
 > incompetentoB >> in that area, and it's only become worse with time, not better. > H > I'm not so sure Pfeiffer really knew how to take Tandem to market.  It0 > is doing much better now than a few years ago. >  >> >>   Hopefully under HP, the8 >> > enterprise business will have a better stewardship. >>D >> If HP cared at all about Compaq's assets in that area (other than
 > Tandem),H >> it wouldn't have allowed Compaq to give them to Intel two months ago. > WithE >> Alpha's death warrant, VMS's and Tru64's future was seriously, ando
 > probably >> fatally, crippled.  > I > IMHO I think HP do care about some of the technologies in Tru64 and the E > Alphaserver.  That is NOT the same as keeping Tru64 and AlphaserveroF > alive in their present form of course.  I think the new HP will feel/ > burdened by VMS, but they have to support it.l >  >>F >> > Also, remember that HP had a big hand in the development of IA64.I >> > Basically they bet their high end server business on this.  With the E >> > Compaq/Intel deal, ex Alpha engineers will have a big say in thet > future >> > development of IA64.  >>H >> Except almost all of the EV8 engineers are already at Intel, with theH >> promise that those EV7 engineers who are still at Compaq will be free > to go G >> there as soon as their EV7 chores are done.  HP may well hasten that  > date, E >> but if it were interested in the Alpha engineers itself it, again, 
 > wouldn't@ >> have allowed the EV8 group to be siphoned off just before the > acquisition. >>/ >>   Future IA64 processors should have all the ! >> > features HP and Compaq want.t >>E >> It sounds as if you haven't a clue about the nature of what you're0H >> suggesting.  This acquisition doesn't in any way alter the difficulty > ofG >> merging Alpha's technology with EPIC, nor make it any more likely too > occur,/ >> let alone any sooner if it ever does at all.  > J > I wasn't implying anything of the kind.   From your last two comments, II > think you missed my point.  HP needed a PA Risc replacement.  They needlE > the replacement to be cheap (so not solely designed/manufactured bycI > them) and it needs to have leading technologies to be at the top of thetI > performance curve.  Now when IA64 was just an Intel/HP joint effort, HPsF > got the first of these benefits, but as we all know, the IA64 is notJ > exactly the fastest general purpose processor out there.  Now that IntelI > have the superior Digital engineers on board, the IA64 should evolve tolE > have the leading processor technologies.  The new HP will be mostlyhI > competing with IBM and Sun in the UNIX space.  So it will be IBM/Power4 F > versus Sun/Sparc versus HP/IA64.  I think HP/IA64 have a much better# > chance now than a few months ago.a >  >>+ >>   A combined HP and Compaq should enablenI >> > IA64 to make big inroads into Sun SPARC and IBM Power4 server sales.  >>D >> And why is that?  The acquisition has just made VMS's and Tru64's > futureH >> even more uncertain than it already was, so no improvement there.  It > willH >> occupy the management of both companies for the next year or so, just > as theD >> DEC acquisition did, which will hardly make them more competitive	 > (ratherr >> the opposite).  > G > I don't think IBM and Sun were very worried by the Alpha/Tru64 due toeE > its small market share.  Due to its datacentre position HP probably I > worried them a bit more, but I can imagine IBM and Sun both laughing ateJ > the IA64 design and UX.  Before the Alpha deal, IA64 was a joke, now theD > future is looking much better.  HP have great datacentre exposure,F > Compaq have great technical computing exposure etc..  Combined, theyH > "could" have a broader market appeal.  Granted, they could mess up big > style.2 > I agree that uncertainty could wreck everything. >  >> >>   IneH >> > the hardware business, server sales, especially at the high end, is > were' >> > good margins are still being made.2 >>9 >> Until Compaq screwed up Alpha's future two months ago.9 >> >> >" >> > So this is my take on things:C >> > PCs and Wintel servers - consolidation of models.  Will become5B >> > profitable again.  This should provide good DELL competition. >>< >> Neither has shown any ability to provide such competition > individually:g? >> together, they'll quite possibly be even less able to do so.L > G > Possibly wishful thinking on my part, sorry.  I just don't like Dell.n >  >>G >> > UNIX - I can't see a future for separate HP-UX and Tru64 operatinglG >> > systems.  I guess they will merge over time into one OS.  How thisi > fitsF >> > in with the port of Tru64 from Alpha to IA64 is interesting.  The > factA >> > that UX already runs on IA64 may be an indicator of a futureo > strategy;'F >> > add Tru64 capabilities/compatibility on top of UX?  Sun should be >> > nervous about this. >>D >> I'm sure they're just quaking in their boots, rather than rubbing > theirvG >> hands thinking about all the new business that is about to be scared  > their G >> way (beyond that which they're already picking up from the June 25th  >> fallout). > I > Lol.  I am sure they are rubbing their hands thinking about all the newpI > business that is about to be scared their way very soon.  I was talking  > about longer term. >  >>H >> > OpenVMS - I guess that the IA64 port will still go ahead.  I cannot > seeA; >> > OpenVMS being actively developed in the future though.m >>G >> One point on which we agree (though the port is at least as shaky asH > it was >> already). >>G >> > Himalaya - HP don't have an equivalent product.  I think this willc > be > erI >> > the least affected business unit.  Hopefully, HP will accelerate the$G >> > resurgence of this platform.  Himalaya can take business away fromo > SuntB >> > and IBM at the high end.  Just look at the recent Sabre deal. >>G >> Not clear how much market-share expansion is possible there:  it's ah	 > kind of H >> specialized platform.  But if HP has any sense at all, it won't screw > it upe$ >> (even Compaq knew enough not to). >>	 >> - billP > ? > The perception that Himalaya is just a specialist platform is-J > misconceived.  A lot of the misconception has been due to the failure ofH > Compaq to tell the Tandem story over the last several years.  RecentlyD > they have started to say the right things.  The Himalaya is a veryI > "open" system to develop applications for, has a very low TOTAL Cost ofoG > Ownership and of course has the Nonstop fundamentals of Availability,c? > Scalability and Reliability.  Himalayas do require specialist.G > systems managers, DBAs and operators, although the last is relativelycF > quick to learn.  However, nowadays, application developers need very? > little specialist Himalaya knowledge to develop applications.  > K As you stated, the Himalaya platform is misconcieved.  In the begining, it PJ (NSK/Guardian)was designed for Transaction Processing and stayed that way J for many years.  The NonStop/VLX/CLX and K series machines were very slow K at batch processing.  With the introduction of Server Net and the S-series  F machines, all of that has changed.  They are "open" to a point.  Very % inexpensive compared to the old days.i  G With a good Administrator, it is true that the operator's job 'can' be eJ relativly easy.  If a developer is working in a Pathway environmet (still H the most efficient use of the system) he/she does have some specialized L skills to learn.  Other than Pathway, development is relativly easy. As far G as DBAs are concerned, Since NonStop SQL is simply built on top of the lJ native Enscribe database,  it is much easier to manage than Oracle.  And, ) has none of the overhead that Oracle has..   Just my 2 cents worth.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2001 12:04:05 -0500e9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)t- Subject: Re: WSJ reporting HP will buy Compaqn3 Message-ID: <glIIDuuPo5Su@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ] In article <3B9758F6.AE28DA50@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:i> > It very much lags HP-UX in terms of platform support and in ; > this respect is very unlike OpenVMS which seems to have aa( > reasonable level of parity with Tru64.    M Did Andrew just say something nice about the company formerly known as DEC???f   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.496 ************************