1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 08 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 500       Contents: A higher-level perspective Re: A higher-level perspective Re: A higher-level perspective Re: A higher-level perspective Re: A higher-level perspective Re: A very sad moment.!  Re: A very sad moment.!  Re: A very sad moment.!  Re: A very sad moment.!  Re: Big black helicopters  Re: Big black helicopters  Re: Big black helicopters  Re: Big black helicopters  Re: Big black helicopters  Re: Big black helicopters  Re: Big black helicopters  Charon-VAX Hobbyist , Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file2 Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable file Device names Re: Device names! Re: Digital Storage Works cabinet  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: ed/edt corrupting files  Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship?" HP Compaq Buyout Editorial Cartoon- HP/CPQ Merger Bad For All (Houston Chronicle) 1 Re: Passing arguments to Dec C program at runtime 1 Re: Passing arguments to Dec C program at runtime - Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001? - Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001? - Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?  Re: RIP Bill Gates Re: RIP Bill Gates Re: RIP Bill Gates SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS  Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS  Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS  Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS  Setting File Attributes   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:27:30 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> # Subject: A higher-level perspective ( Message-ID: <9ncdmj$p9q$1@pyrite.mv.net>  C The following article from the Houston Chronicle was just posted at G comp.unix.tru64.  The saddest part is how much the sentiments expressed  remind me of how DEC once was:  7 http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/1038069    Sept. 6, 2001, 6:23PM   . Sadly, Hewlett-Packard going 'Way' of dot-coms By MICHAEL S. MALONE  K For more than six decades, Hewlett-Packard has played a special role in the  life of Silicon Valley.   L It has always been the antipode, the counterpoint, to the Valley's excesses.J In a town of wildcatters and lone wolves, HP was the home of Little LeagueG coaches and den mothers. Good companies emulated HP; bad companies were G shamed by it. And when things went bad -- your company died or you grew L tired -- HP was sanctuary, where you could rest, retune your skills, unlearnE your selfishness, make a real contribution, then charge back out into  battle.   L Hewlett-Packard has also been a social contract unique in American industry.L It says to employees: Live up to the tenets of the HP Way and the company in1 turn will give you a fulfilling lifetime of work.   L Thousands of employees have done just that, some into the second generation." But that was before Carly Fiorina.  H Under her tenure, HP has been changing before our eyes into something weF know all too well. It is becoming just another Silicon Valley company:G massive layoffs, living from quarter to quarter, serving stock analysts G rather than customers, emphasizing pricing and market share rather than  innovation and profits.   F "We just have to trust that Carly knows what she's doing," one 20-yearH employee told me recently. Then he shook his head. "She's supposed to be- really smart, so there must be a plan there."   K But now, with this week's announcement of a buyout of Compaq, even the most J loyal HPer must be asking: Does Carly Fiorina have a clue what she's doingL with Hewlett-Packard? Does she understand that this is the jewel of American? industry she is toying with as if it is just some resume entry?   L The answer is: No. She didn't understand the company when she got there, andJ she doesn't understand it now. And she will soon kill the greatest company ever known.   G Harsh words, but they pale against the magnitude of what is going to be L lost. Fiorina's dwindling population of supporters -- computer retailers andK the inexcusably stupid HP board of directors -- say that she has no choice, > the world has changed and HP has to change with it. That these9 extraordinarily difficult times require radical measures.   F Oh? The economy was far worse in 1974, when HP chose to cut everyone'sK salary by 10 percent rather than undergo layoffs. That was radical. When HP I metamorphosed from an instrument company to a computing giant -- that was  real change.  L But the biggest myth of all is that the HP Way is somehow obsolete. In fact,, it is never more competitive than right now.  J The company Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard built was dedicated to producingK the most innovative, highest quality products possible for targeted markets L that needed them. For these products, customers would pay premium prices andK still feel they'd gotten a bargain. From this simple model, everything else J followed. You only stayed in markets where the model worked, and abandonedK those (especially the ones becoming commoditized) where it didn't. You took J the long view in all of your business planning, assuming that stock pricesG always followed success. And most of all, you trusted and retained your I employees, because only they fully understood both the technology and the 	 customer.   L The power of the HP Way has only been underscored by the dot-com debacle, inL which thousands of would-be Bills and Daves ignored everything but the stockH options and the Friday afternoon beer busts. A little more dedication to: real products and real profits would have changed history.  H Apparently they didn't learn the HP Way at Lucent either. Why else wouldI Fiorina throw away thousands of years of HP intellectual capital, chase a L dying, commodity market like PCs and make every decision as if she's got oneJ eye cocked on CNBC? Why else would she abandon the one business philosophy3 most other companies wish they had the guts to try?   H And now the Compaq deal. Fiorina has decided to bet Hewlett-Packard on aJ fading industry that her predecessors would have long since abandoned. AndH she is doing so by making HP the final link in a daisy chain of failure.  I Gloomy, dying DEC bets the ranch on a new computer chip and fails. It, in K turn, is bought by creepy, dysfunctional Compaq, which fails to effectively J absorb it. And now Hewlett-Packard buys this unhealthy, inassimilable messI in order to gain economies of scale in an industry where scale ultimately  doesn't matter.   1 It will fail. The market knows it. HPers know it.   E At least Fiorina will now find herself surrounded by people who don't I believe in the HP Way either. Together they can price-cut and lay off the  merged companies into oblivion.   I Still, mindful of the role HP has played in the history of Silicon Valley J and the electronics age, Carly Fiorina can perform one last service to the, memory of William Hewlett and David Packard.   She can name the new company   Compaq.   J Malone is a longtime Silicon Valley observer and editor-at-large of Forbes ASAP magazine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 12:00:06 +0100 & From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>' Subject: Re: A higher-level perspective - Message-ID: <3B99FA36.B587D41E@aerosys.co.uk>    Bill Todd wrote: > E > The following article from the Houston Chronicle was just posted at I > comp.unix.tru64.  The saddest part is how much the sentiments expressed   > remind me of how DEC once was: > 9 > http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/1038069  >  > Sept. 6, 2001, 6:23PM  > 0 > Sadly, Hewlett-Packard going 'Way' of dot-coms > By MICHAEL S. MALONE > M > For more than six decades, Hewlett-Packard has played a special role in the  > life of Silicon Valley.  > N > It has always been the antipode, the counterpoint, to the Valley's excesses.L > In a town of wildcatters and lone wolves, HP was the home of Little LeagueI > coaches and den mothers. Good companies emulated HP; bad companies were I > shamed by it. And when things went bad -- your company died or you grew N > tired -- HP was sanctuary, where you could rest, retune your skills, unlearnG > your selfishness, make a real contribution, then charge back out into 	 > battle.  > N > Hewlett-Packard has also been a social contract unique in American industry.  	 <snipped>     R If the disease has got to companies like HP, then US industry really is in seriousP trouble. IMHO, it will get a lot worse before it gets better, so long as companyZ management, greedy shareholders and Wall St fail to realise that employees are a companies= most valuable asset. Without them, there would be no company.   Y You can't expect highly creative engineers and others to produce world beating product if ; they constantly live in a climate of fear about their jobs.    Chris    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:46:55 -0400( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>' Subject: Re: A higher-level perspective K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080943570.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>   ! On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, ChrisQ wrote:    >  > I > If the disease has got to companies like HP, then US industry really is J > in serious trouble. IMHO, it will get a lot worse before it gets better,H > so long as company management, greedy shareholders and Wall St fail toK > realise that employees are a companies most valuable asset. Without them,  > there would be no company. > H > You can't expect highly creative engineers and others to produce worldJ > beating product if they constantly live in a climate of fear about their > jobs.  >   F Maybe it's time to form John Galt Industries and get them to buy Alpha	 and VMS!!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:40:24 GMT * From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com>' Subject: Re: A higher-level perspective 6 Message-ID: <IZqm7.651$Iw2.28397@petpeeve.ziplink.net>  E > The following article from the Houston Chronicle was just posted at I > comp.unix.tru64.  The saddest part is how much the sentiments expressed   > remind me of how DEC once was:  A Good article, Bill.  Yes, it reminds me of how DEC once was, too.   F I think the gist of it is tied up in "social contract".  Olsen and the' others who were in at the start in 1957 K never sat around and philosophized about what the social contract might be.  But, in the course of creatingI products and services that customers could get at a fraction of the price & charged by the big computer companies,4 they made a place where it was fun and safe to work.  I By "safe" I mean a whole lot more than free from industrial accidents.  I E mean safe from wholesale career destruction.  I mean something like a I "social contract".  I lament the loss.  But, if a social contract is ever F going to rise out of the ashes, it's going to be up to us to build the$ organizations that make it possible.  L More and more of us own stock for our retirement.  Maybe we have to begin toK move our stock money to places where the social contract is honored, in our H view.  There could be a cost in terms of ROI.  But it might be worth it.     -- Regards,     David Cressey      www.dcressey.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:14:07 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: A higher-level perspective ( Message-ID: <9ndg2i$knv$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com> wrote in message 0 news:IZqm7.651$Iw2.28397@petpeeve.ziplink.net...G > > The following article from the Houston Chronicle was just posted at K > > comp.unix.tru64.  The saddest part is how much the sentiments expressed " > > remind me of how DEC once was: > C > Good article, Bill.  Yes, it reminds me of how DEC once was, too.  > H > I think the gist of it is tied up in "social contract".  Olsen and the) > others who were in at the start in 1957 I > never sat around and philosophized about what the social contract might  be.   > But, in the course of creatingK > products and services that customers could get at a fraction of the price ( > charged by the big computer companies,6 > they made a place where it was fun and safe to work. > K > By "safe" I mean a whole lot more than free from industrial accidents.  I G > mean safe from wholesale career destruction.  I mean something like a K > "social contract".  I lament the loss.  But, if a social contract is ever H > going to rise out of the ashes, it's going to be up to us to build the& > organizations that make it possible. > K > More and more of us own stock for our retirement.  Maybe we have to begin  toI > move our stock money to places where the social contract is honored, in  our J > view.  There could be a cost in terms of ROI.  But it might be worth it.   I like that idea.   H But while DEC indeed provided a good (no, excellent) work environment upJ until at least the early '80s, the contract I found most important was notK the one with me but the one with customers (which, of course, also affected F me).  The HP approach of concentrating on building useful, innovative,C high-quality products and letting the stock price simply follow the H company's success rather than paying any direct attention to it was veryC much like KO's 'Do the right thing' motto (as normally expanded and H interpreted) - and the success of that approach was what made it easy to" treat employees like human beings.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:32:31 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au   Subject: Re: A very sad moment.!5 Message-ID: <01K83TCIZD0I004WQZ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Rob Young wrote:  @ >	I had a fully privileged account since Junior year at college.D >	Helping to run things the last two years.  Without that experienceD >	it would have been *much* harder to get started.  I always include< >	those two years when talking about my total experience...  > F >	Without privs , Digital News, Digital Review, poking and prodding, IG >	certainly wouldn't have learned a bit about system tuning and SYSGEN   >	etc., prior to graduating.  J I agree with Rob (versus Howard Shubs).  Any extra-curricular activity at H college/uni, if pertinent to a job application, is always germane.  The  better you look ....  N (Apart from when you come against that big show-stopper -- "You're too highly  qualified.")  
 Regards Paddy    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 07:12:24 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>   Subject: Re: A very sad moment.!B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010908070552.00aa8d50@ntbsod.psccos.com>  + At 10:43 PM 9/7/2001, Howard S Shubs wrote: C >In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010907222147.0230ce20@ntbsod.psccos.com>, ) >  Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:  > O > > Heck, if I could include student years, I would be doing this for 28 years,  > > mostly on DEC stuff. >  >So you're around 50.   J Not quite (but not far away).  I'm an Air Force Brat, and the base we wereK stationed at in England, allowed us in high school access to their computer J (IBM system) to do FORTRAN and BASIC programming via punch cards.  We alsoL had a very primitive system donated by Perkin Elmer to our school (teletypesJ and 32kb of memory) for BASIC programming (how many people can say they'veI worked on a Perkin Elmer system?).  In college, I count a lot of the time H on the computer as "professional time", since I was using it while doingI research for the physics department, doing real work (that was on a Xerox M Sigma 7 - replaced after I left by one of the first 11/780's ever installed).   2 But yeah, been doing this for a long time!  <grin>   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |lI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |eI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |.I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |iI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:21:56 -0400( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>  Subject: Re: A very sad moment.!K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080918200.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>w  ) On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Howard S Shubs wrote:w  D > In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010907222147.0230ce20@ntbsod.psccos.com>,) >  Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:o > O > > Heck, if I could include student years, I would be doing this for 28 years,r > > mostly on DEC stuff. >  > So you're around 50. >     Something wrong with that??  :-)   billC [Who's first computer job was operating and programming an IBM 1401tH in 1971 and has been admining Unix since 1980 none of it as a student!!]   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:40:25 GMTD* From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com>  Subject: Re: A very sad moment.!6 Message-ID: <JZqm7.652$Iw2.28397@petpeeve.ziplink.net>  L I got in earlier than you.  If I could count student years, I'd go back to a PDP-1l@ in the fall of 1962.    DEC was only five years old at the time.   -- Regards,     David CresseyO     www.dcressey.com   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 00:36 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)0" Subject: Re: Big black helicopters, Message-ID: <8SEP200100364566@gerg.tamu.edu>   eplan@kapsch.net writes...a }In article <jefhptg7bpoifitmvpdc28bat8vljd12r8@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: K }>On 7 Sep 2001 13:38:34 +0200, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:iN }>>May I humbly ask, what you use as Word, Excel and Powerpoint Alternatives ?M }>>I know of the (said to be very good) XESS spreadsheet (http://www.ais.com)oO }>>but it is not free. And _I_ still don't know any freeware reading PPT files.  }>H }>Star Office read a few basic power point presentations I through at it }>once.e } D }But Star Office is way too big for me to try to port it to OpenVMS. }Another one ? }  }-- = }Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651t  A The brand spanking new release of Star Office is aparently broken D up into separate applications instead of being one monolithic thing.D This would probably make porting easier as you could pick a part andF do just that part (well, that part plus any common shared parts) like,E for example, just the Powerpoint-equivalent part. Not that this meanse7 it would be easy - just easier than before (hopefully).p   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 08:19:35 GMTh9 From: politics2000@hotmail.com (politics2000@hotmail.com)h" Subject: Re: Big black helicopters: Message-ID: <3b99bf7b.427983836@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>  A What needs to be defined, evidently, is the purpose of anti-trusteB legislation.  Its intent is to protect CONSUMERS, not competitors,E from a monopoly.  The parade of "witnesses" in the Microsoft case had E very few (if any) dissatisfied customers.  Instead, we had competitortF after competitor complaining that Microsoft acted in an unfair manner.F An intensive and successful marketting campaign should not be confused with monopolistic practices.  E And what also needs to pointed out is that businesses and individuals C who put all their eggs into the Microsoft basket have to suffer thesE consequences of their actions.  I've never heard of an instance wherelD a prospective computer purchaser was coerced into buying an MS-based? PC at gunpoint.  They made their decisions on their own, and ifw< political bodies think that consumers are too stupid to knowC otherwise, then we should question the political bodies and not thet
 consumers.  @ At the risk of insulting the Europeans who pay attention to thisD group, it's irrelevant what Europeans think of American law, whetherD we're talking about software or gun control or anything else.  TheirD opinion should carry no weight in this or any other discussion sinceB we are not obligated to acquiesce to their policies (nor should weB ever be).  Who cares if there are European "standards" for what is? considered a monoply ... reality is a better yardstick than thee7 whimsical notions of socialist-infiltrated governments.n  E Keep in mind, I'm a much bigger fan of VMS than Microsoft (as evidentPC by the fact that I pay attention to this group), and it pains me to C see VMS slipping into obscurity.  However, we should not direct ouriF anger at a company who marketted their products better than DEC/CompaqD did (and it's doubtful HP will do any better).  Just because MS beat@ out VMS (and others) in the marketplace does not mean government intervention is required.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:07:39 +0010e% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au " Subject: Re: Big black helicopters5 Message-ID: <01K83SHOF842004X4N@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>s  , The anonymous politics200@hotmail.com wrote:  + [Amongst other things which I shall ignore]n  A >At the risk of insulting the Europeans who pay attention to thistE >group, it's irrelevant what Europeans think of American law, whetherbE >we're talking about software or gun control or anything else.  Their E >opinion should carry no weight in this or any other discussion sinceyC >we are not obligated to acquiesce to their policies (nor should we C >ever be).  Who cares if there are European "standards" for what isa@ >considered a monoply ... reality is a better yardstick than the8 >whimsical notions of socialist-infiltrated governments.  C No offense intended to the many rational US "friends" here, but ...t  L Are you one of the remaining US bigots who believe they're the only country 
 in the world?m  F Forget about gun control, I would see that as internal to any country.  K The Microsoft software is a different issue.  They have offices and retail  L outlets in many/most countries.  And within each country they must abide by  that country's laws.  L You have just more-or-less stated that regardless of whichever country that K Microsoft trades in, they need only adhere to laws (and how much money was eK given to the incoming presidential candidate) made in US.  Bloody bigotted l	 bullshit.o  
 Paddy O'Brieno   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:37:19 +0010t% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auk" Subject: Re: Big black helicopters5 Message-ID: <01K83TIHETR6004WQZ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Carl Perkins wrote:o  B >The brand spanking new release of Star Office is aparently brokenE >up into separate applications instead of being one monolithic thing.lE >This would probably make porting easier as you could pick a part andsG >do just that part (well, that part plus any common shared parts) like, F >for example, just the Powerpoint-equivalent part. Not that this means8 >it would be easy - just easier than before (hopefully).  M I have a vague memory from when Star Office was first to be GPL'ed that Hoff hG said that VMS engineering were considering looking into a port?  {That  ; sentence was not a question, but I'll make it into one :-).r   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 10:51:09 +01004 From: M.K.Horsburgh@damtp.cam.ac.uk (Mark Horsburgh)" Subject: Re: Big black helicoptersD Message-ID: <slrn9pjqgd.2u2.M.K.Horsburgh@krull.dialup.ntlworld.com>  \ On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 08:19:35 GMT, politics2000@hotmail.com <politics2000@hotmail.com> wrote:C > What needs to be defined, evidently, is the purpose of anti-trustpD > legislation.  Its intent is to protect CONSUMERS, not competitors,G > from a monopoly.  The parade of "witnesses" in the Microsoft case had G > very few (if any) dissatisfied customers.  Instead, we had competitoreH > after competitor complaining that Microsoft acted in an unfair manner.H > An intensive and successful marketting campaign should not be confused > with monopolistic practices.  F I agree that the legislation is intended to protect consumers, howeverA that has no bearing on how a prosecution is conducted. Anti-trust D legislation proscribes certain _behaviour_ and proving a company hasE behaved in a certain way need not involve it's customers in any way -HG particularly if you've got some juicy internal memos ;-). To paraphrasetJ you: A weak and pitiful prosecution should not be confused with innocence.  G > And what also needs to pointed out is that businesses and individualsaE > who put all their eggs into the Microsoft basket have to suffer thetG > consequences of their actions.  I've never heard of an instance where F > a prospective computer purchaser was coerced into buying an MS-basedA > PC at gunpoint.  They made their decisions on their own, and if5> > political bodies think that consumers are too stupid to knowE > otherwise, then we should question the political bodies and not the8 > consumers.  E Well, if you think that control can only be exerted at gunpoint, thentA you're woefully ignorant. Microsoft has constructed all sorts of  B barriers to entry into it's market - enough to give it an _unfair_H advantage in that market and that is illegal - in America and in Europe.F Why is it illegal? It's illegal in order to protect consumers, becauseB it is in the consumers best interest to have some competition in aI marketplace. The anti-trust legislation doesn't legislate for competitionfD - impossible unless the government got into the business of startingI competing companies. So, it does the next best thing. It legislates for anG fair market, so if a competing company starts up it can't be stifled byk monopoly power.e  B > At the risk of insulting the Europeans who pay attention to thisF > group, it's irrelevant what Europeans think of American law, whetherF > we're talking about software or gun control or anything else.  TheirF > opinion should carry no weight in this or any other discussion sinceD > we are not obligated to acquiesce to their policies (nor should weD > ever be).  Who cares if there are European "standards" for what isA > considered a monoply ... reality is a better yardstick than thed9 > whimsical notions of socialist-infiltrated governments.   G Oh please... where do I begin with this? First, at no point during thisoC discussion have I, or anyone else AFAIR, made an attack on AmericancK politics - I could, quite easily, but I didn't. Second, we've had to put updI with rants from you and TTK Ciar about gun control, as if it had anythingoK to do with the issue. Third, American anti-trust law is quite strong enoughnK to deal with abuse of monopoly power - and some of it has been around sincerF the 1890 and has been used against the likes of Standard Oil, AmericanF Tobacco Company and AT&T. This is not a new issue in the US and it hasG _nothing_ to do with European standards. Fourth, if we're talking aboutsI what laws should be (which we weren't but never mind) then we're engagingsF in a _moral_ debate, which should not respect any national boundaries.  D Fifth and final point, which has essentially nothing to do with thisG discussion, but nevertheless... I take exception to your statement thatoG European opinion should carry no weight within the US. This is patently F false. If we were to accept that argument then US opinion should carryB no weight in China, Kosovo or Afghanistan. It is a statement of USJ foreign policy that it's voice and, in the case of Kosovo, the boot printsH of it's soldiers should be felt in these countries. Like it our not, youH need interact with the rest of the world and part of that interaction isF necessarily involves some sort of give and take. In the case of the EUH and the US this is normally conducted in a reasonably civilised manner, E between diplomats. In the case of, say, the US and Panama it has beenaG conducted with soldiers. The idea that the opinions of one country havenA no bearing on others is facile. My apologies to other readers for E bringing this _extremely_ off topic paragraph in, but I just couldn'to let this stand.   G > Keep in mind, I'm a much bigger fan of VMS than Microsoft (as evidentcE > by the fact that I pay attention to this group), and it pains me to E > see VMS slipping into obscurity.  However, we should not direct oursH > anger at a company who marketted their products better than DEC/CompaqF > did (and it's doubtful HP will do any better).  Just because MS beatB > out VMS (and others) in the marketplace does not mean government > intervention is required.r  G The important word in this paragraph is "marketplace". The intention ofoG the _American_ anti-trust legislation is to ensure that there is a fairf? marketplace - in order to protect consumers. I do agree that MS G marketing would steamroller DEC/Compaq's non-existent marketing even in G a fair market, but we should always maintain the market in such a staterH that if HP suddenly pulled up the socks of VMS marketing then they would' have a fair chance of being successful.l   Mark (A New Zealander)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:43:18 +0200o, From: Toon Moene <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>" Subject: Re: Big black helicopters4 Message-ID: <3B9A2076.91871BD9@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>   Mark Horsburgh wrote:   F > Fifth and final point, which has essentially nothing to do with thisI > discussion, but nevertheless... I take exception to your statement thate8 > European opinion should carry no weight within the US.  E I think you make this far more complicated than necessary.  We (i.e.,lG *we* as Europeans) are a large fraction of the consumers of US computer1H technology.  All four computers in this house are of US manufactury.  AsF consumers, we should be protected by the US anti-trust laws.  If thoseH laws are not sufficient to protect us, we have to invent our own laws to protect us.o   End-of-argument.   -- aG Toon Moene - mailto:toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl - phoneto: +31 346 214290t6 Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG  Maartensdijk, The NetherlandsG Maintainer, GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.htmlaE Join GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 16:28:29 GMTe" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>" Subject: Re: Big black helicopters9 Message-ID: <NGrm7.478$hH4.250480@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>m   TTK Ciar wrote:y   > ) > Once upon a time, Jan Vorbrueggen said:  >>= >>politics2000@hotmail.com (politics2000@hotmail.com) writes:d >>E >>> By definition, a monopoly is when the public is not given another2H >>> choice.  Well, we do have other choices ... VMS, UNIX, Linux ... andE >>> any Windows user can go to shareware.com and get Netscape or some. >>> other browser for free.  >>H >>You might as well say "we can go and write our own compiler, operating6 >>system and browser to be completely Microsoft-free". > G >   Well, yes.  We have done that.  I have been 100% microsoft-free for C > many years, running gcc, gdb, perl, freebsd, linux, XFree86, KDE,oE > Netscape, Lynx, Mutt, et al.  The only software I've wanted which IeG > haven't been able to find for free is something with the same kind ofuD > functionality as MS-Project (though, I would prefer something that' > doesn't suck as badly as MS-Project).o >   L And if I could find a decent Wyse 50 and Tandem 6530 (not the expensive BSI ? product for Linux), I would be free of Microshaft too, finally.s   -- . Art Rice Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------* All opinions are my own and do not reflect* the views of the above mentioned employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 10:05:22 -0500s( From: jkclausen@yahoo.com (John Clausen) Subject: Charon-VAX Hobbyist, Message-ID: <3b9a33b2_4@corp.newsgroups.com>  3 Does anyone have a copy of the Charon-VAX Hobbyist?aB I can't find it anywhere and I keep hearing great things about it.     Thanks,a   John      > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!t> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:24:47 +0010-% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au-5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPn5 Message-ID: <01K83T2XES1U004YIS@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>e  , >Well, here's a quote from today's NY Times: >5D >"But as soon as Compaq announced that it had reached a deal to makeE >America Online its featured online service, Microsoft announced thatsF >if PC makers chose to place any competing software or services on theD >desktop screen, they had to put three Microsoft icons on as well --G >one for the Internet Explorer browser, one for Microsoft Media Player,i' >and one for its MSN Internet service."u > D >Therefore, I don't think that Compaq scored any brownie points with3 >this one. And MS is clearly being "bossy" as well.   e >Disclaimer: JMHO  >Alan E. Feldman  M I don't think "bossy" is quite the right word.  And since they have now been oN kissed on the four cheeks by your new President's administration, aren't they H allowed to do anything they damned well like?  Bill Gates in the newest : version of the Charlie Chaplin movie "The Great Dictator".   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:17:23 -0400( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPcK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080915380.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>m  % On 7 Sep 2001, Alan E. Feldman wrote:   u > Dave Harrold <DRHarrold.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<dntpot8f7pbk85cvvo9o0v61dppb8i5887@4ax.com>...s > >  > - > Well, here's a quote from today's NY Times:2 > E > "But as soon as Compaq announced that it had reached a deal to makepF > America Online its featured online service, Microsoft announced thatG > if PC makers chose to place any competing software or services on theEE > desktop screen, they had to put three Microsoft icons on as well --rH > one for the Internet Explorer browser, one for Microsoft Media Player,( > and one for its MSN Internet service." > E > Therefore, I don't think that Compaq scored any brownie points witht4 > this one. And MS is clearly being "bossy" as well.  I Maybe MS should get a law passed like the language law in Quebec.  If youoL put any none MS icons on the desktop, the MS ones have to be bigger and have larger fonts!!  :-)8   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:18:34 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP , Message-ID: <3B9A36C8.62476131@videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:E > "But as soon as Compaq announced that it had reached a deal to makeBF > America Online its featured online service, Microsoft announced thatG > if PC makers chose to place any competing software or services on therE > desktop screen, they had to put three Microsoft icons on as well --,H > one for the Internet Explorer browser, one for Microsoft Media Player,( > and one for its MSN Internet service." > E > Therefore, I don't think that Compaq scored any brownie points withc4 > this one. And MS is clearly being "bossy" as well.  L 1- Have you noticed the Radio Shack ads on US TV ? They push Compaq machinesJ that come with some free subscription to MSN. So while there may be an AOL@ icon on the desktop, there is a better deal with MSN in the box.  N 2-Just because Compaq announces that it gets advertising money from AOL to putN its logo on the desktop doesn't mean that Compaq also won't put the "standard"I stuff that comes with windows does it ? Or did they strike an "exclusive"mD rights with AOL that prevents them from putting MSN on the desktop ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:30:39 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPe, Message-ID: <3B9A399C.52F62D54@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:K > Maybe MS should get a law passed like the language law in Quebec.  If youoN > put any none MS icons on the desktop, the MS ones have to be bigger and have > larger fonts!!  :-)n   ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 09:39:39 +0200i< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable filee' Message-ID: <3B99CB3B.6D0D366@home.com>,   Hi. ; Just FYI, if you need to convert <LF> (aka. UNIX-text file)h? into <CR><LF> pairs, you could just ZIP it with the "-l" switchu4 (see below) and then just unzip your converted file.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.u     $ zipMG Copyright (C) 1990-1997 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly, = Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko. % Type 'zip "-L"' for software license. = Zip 2.2 (November 3rd 1997). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"hH zip [-options] [-b path] [-t mmddyyyy] [-n suffixes] [zipfile list] [-xi list]uD   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list, whiche<   can include the special name - to compress standard input.B   If zipfile and list are omitted, zip compresses stdin to stdout.D   -f   freshen: only changed files  -u   update: only changed or new files.B   -d   delete entries in zipfile    -m   move into zipfile (delete files)F   -R   recurse into directories     -j   junk (don't record) directory nameseG   -0   store only                   -l   convert LF to CR LF (-ll CR LFe to LF)8   -1   compress faster              -9   compress betterH   -q   quiet operation              -v   verbose operation/print version info<   -c   add one-line comments        -z   add zipfile commentF   -@   read names from stdin        -o   make zipfile as old as latest entryoC   -x   exclude the following names  -i   include only the following  namesiG  "-F"  fix zipfile("-FF" try harder) "-D"  do not add directory entriesuG  "-A"  adjust self-extracting exe  "-J"  junk zipfile prefix (unzipsfx) F  "-T"  test zipfile integrity      "-X"  eXclude eXtra file attributesH  "-V"  save VMS file attributes     -w   append version number to stored nameF   -e   encrypt                      -n   don't compress these suffixes   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 09:53:23 +0200- From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable filen' Message-ID: <3B99CE73.92E3949A@home.nl>p   Bob Koehler wrote:  i > In article <%g1m7.30342$836.3557404@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:i >iN > > Many people are under the impression that characters like <cr> and/or <lf>0 > > are found in "RMS based" OpenVMS text files. >aH > Nonsense.  RMS supports stream files, if that's what the user desires.F > C, C++, and Java based code default to stream-lf files, all done viaI > RMS.  EDT and TPU don't default to stream files, but since both use RMShH > they can read stream files anyhow and EDT will write new versions that. > way if the old version was written that way. >cI > > Text files that are created without using RMS may have embedded paperII > > commands and no line length information. The only way to use BASIC to-I > > convert a text file produced by "C" is to read in 512 byte blocks (ifcL > > possible), extract only what you need, then use PRINT statements to disk7 > > which will create a proper RMS formatted text file.t >82 > Back to reality:  C accesses it's files via RMS.  d True and not true. C does access files by RMS, but uses block-IO. C definitely does not do record-IOk (unless specific RMS calls are done). This is very easy to proof. Take a Stream-LF file that is input for ash C-program, change the file attributes to 512 bytes, no-CR etc. (like a .exe file), and you will see thatj the C-program happily swallows this file. Change the file (with convert) to a VAR file, and your C-program will be very unhappy.n     > RMS is what makesnG > files accessable to a variety of languages even though they're not incE > the format that language was designed around.  I've exchanged filescI > between a variety of C, Fortran, Ada, and Java programs.   BASIC shouldc > play well, too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 10:13:56 +0200y From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable filet' Message-ID: <3B99D344.C57DAB45@home.nl>.  L It'great that you found a workaround. It's clear now that your file actuallyL wasn't a Stream-LF file. But as I mentioned before this is the standard typeM of file C produces on VMS, regardless of the true content of the file. If youvM dump the file, you should be able to find the record delimiter(s) that are ineF use. If it is <CR> or <CR><LF>,  you should be able to change the fileG attributes so that you don't need C-runtime calls. I a way it is a morenI elegant solution to change the characteristics of the file to reflect its 4 true contents, than to use the c-runtime workaround.   David Spencer wrote:  K > > I've got some files generated by a C program that are Stream_LF format.gK > > I'd like to write a BASIC program to read them. I've considered severalm3 > > options but with little success in any of them.  >oG > To bring these threads up to date, here's what I learned and what hast > happened.o >tC > Despite the many attempts, converting the file that I have simply H > doesn't seem to work. I can get a variable file but I still can't readB > it. The reason is that the data truly is in a stream format withB > only <cr> characters separating the lines. Regardless of the RMS9 > attributes, gets to the file return 32768 byte records.s >fE > Yesterday I received a _very_ useful piece of code from Jeff RamioneA > that makes use of DEC C runtime library calls. The approach was F > brilliant (at least to me, as I wouldn't have thunk of it). The code@ > sample he sent uses DECC$FOPEN, FCLOSE and FREAD to access theC > file and retrieve the records. The concept was workable and now I)# > have a successful project online.t >a9 > Many thanks to all who offered suggestions and replies.e >r > -- Dave Spencerd   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:50:52 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable filem; Message-ID: <Pipm7.30295$A24.3896971@news20.bellglobal.com>   + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messageh! news:3B99CE73.92E3949A@home.nl...g >c   [snip]   >tE > True and not true. C does access files by RMS, but uses block-IO. C   definitely does not do record-IOJ > (unless specific RMS calls are done). This is very easy to proof. Take a" Stream-LF file that is input for aH > C-program, change the file attributes to 512 bytes, no-CR etc. (like a! .exe file), and you will see thatoJ > the C-program happily swallows this file. Change the file (with convert)! to a VAR file, and your C-programi > will be very unhappy.  >a  K Mostly true. I'd think that fprintf would qualify as record i/o but this is C probably not what you had in mind. But let me add one point to yournE statement; how much of RMS is used depends on how the file was openednC (compare "fopen" to "open" to "sys$open") and then, how the data iss	 accessed.r  J Many (not all) "C" programmers got their start on PC's in the 80s and 90s.K Some developed some bad habits on those underpowered machines which they'veaG carried to bigger systems. I've met more than a few "C" programmers wholH never use fopen etc. because it is less efficient than open etc. This isK basically true, but these poor devils are bypassing the efforts of the army C of software engineers who developed all the higher layer i/o calls.d  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,w Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:27:28 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>e; Subject: Re: Converting a stream_lf file to a variable filey; Message-ID: <5Irm7.21757$%G5.1650230@news20.bellglobal.com>d  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message5 news:Pipm7.30295$A24.3896971@news20.bellglobal.com...i   [snip]   >pJ > Mostly true. I'd think that fprintf would qualify as record i/o but this isE > probably not what you had in mind. But let me add one point to yourrG > statement; how much of RMS is used depends on how the file was openedbE > (compare "fopen" to "open" to "sys$open") and then, how the data is  > accessed.  >e  K Since this discussion is getting rtaher technical, more precise language on.J my part is required. In my response to Durk Munk I should have stated that; "fprintf" qualifies as "non-block i/o" (a.k.a. stream i/o)..  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,l Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:41:15 -00000 From: "Dave Cole" <daveandrosie@picknowl.com.au> Subject: Device namese: Message-ID: <newscache$q4fcjg$1zb$1@maggie.netlink.com.au>  L I have an Alpha that was delivered with the operating system already loaded,K I am now doing some reconfiguring to incorporating it into our network.   IpJ have changed the node and volume names, and the node address, but the if II use the command "show device do", it list the disks with the pre-deliverdtI names i.e.  name$device,  I would like to change the name part of this tot read the same as the node name.   > As far as I can find I can use the Allocate command  "AllocateK device-name[:][logical-name[:]]",but I would like some advice as to whethero I am right.u   Thanks in advance  Dave.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 12:54:51 GMTr. From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: Device namest8 Message-ID: <1a5kpt4j8mf1cc3sl3trahfus8do7bqbf3@4ax.com>  & Have you changed SCSNODE (in SYSGEN) ?    . On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:41:15 -0000, "Dave Cole"% <daveandrosie@picknowl.com.au> wrote:4  M >I have an Alpha that was delivered with the operating system already loaded,gL >I am now doing some reconfiguring to incorporating it into our network.   IK >have changed the node and volume names, and the node address, but the if I J >use the command "show device do", it list the disks with the pre-deliverdJ >names i.e.  name$device,  I would like to change the name part of this to  >read the same as the node name. >u? >As far as I can find I can use the Allocate command  "AllocatemL >device-name[:][logical-name[:]]",but I would like some advice as to whether >I am right. >o >Thanks in advance >Dave. >W   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:07:18 -0400 3 From: mike & cheryl marshall <tmarshall04@snet.net>.* Subject: Re: Digital Storage Works cabinet( Message-ID: <3B98E2A6.F901B714@snet.net>  ? i'll get the model when i get back to work and post it...thankss   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > mike & cheryl marshall wrote:0 > >cK > > I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this but thought I'd take a8J > > chance. I came across a Storage Works cabinet for the DLT tapes but itL > > looks like a caddy or something is missing from the unit. The unit seemsL > > functional but there is nothing for the tapes to sit in to be fed to theJ > > machine. any ideas? I'm new to most of this stuff so any help would be > > appreciated...thanks >xE > Any model numbers or something else you can tell us? "StorageWorks"n > "DLT" isn't much to go on. >A > -- > David J. Dachteran > dba DJE Systems- > http://www.djesys.com/ >s* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 10:02:22 GMTr- From: forkosh@panix2.panix.com (John Forkosh):$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files) Message-ID: <9ncqbe$h99$1@news.panix.com>   ! John Santos (JOHN@egh.com) wrote:t7 : Could this be a console terminal driver problem?  Seen : below:= Sounds about consistent with my additional tests (see below),,8 except that a Win-NT box running KEA emulator (as vt420)? worked completely okay when plugged into vs's mmj port as opa0.w? It's only the physical Wyse-285 that messes up when plugged in.-< Is that observation consistent with terminal driver problem?  $ : On 6 Sep 2001, John Forkosh wrote:/ : > Mike Rechtman (rechtman@tzora.co.il) wrote:gC : > : This strikes a familiar chord from back in the mists of time.u? : > : Try the edit/edt on a _real_ VT - just as a double-check. ? : > : I have a recollection of some emulators getting mixed up.o; : > : Also "set term/inq" does not always do all it should.  : > : ~Mikec : > 9 : > Bingo.  Couldn't get a real VT, but used KEA emulatoro7 : > running on a Win-NT box, and that worked perfectly.t< : > Do you know any combination of settings for a Wyse (285)6 : > that works okay?  Thanks for clarifying situation, : > John (forkosh@panix.com) : >  : > : John Forkosh wrote:n; : > : > Hoff Hoffman (hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam) wrote::9 : > : > : forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) writes:tL : > : > : :Just installed vms7.2 on a vs4000/60 and started using ed/edt....	 : > : > :sI : > : > :   <discussion of apparent attribute incompatibility/corruption>l	 : > : > :lF : > : > I'm running vs with S3 up, and a Wyse-285 plugged in mmj port,A : > : > running as Device_Type: VT400_Series (I tried various andaC : > : > sundry combinations with same result), and set term/inquirefI : > : > in login.com.  Also tried setting crfill and lffill with no luck. ! : > : > Any suggestions?  Thanks,1  : > : > John (forkosh@panix.com)  F : Over the last few versions (post v7.1 or .2? on both VAX and Alpha),F : I've had random screen problems in TECO in screen mode (4,7:w mode). :.B : I think Alpha V7.2 was the worst, and things have improved a lotE : in v7.2-1 & V7.3.  Since TECO isn't supported, I haven't complainedk : about it.  :i= : Anyway, the current problems seem to be worse on (and maybeP< : exclusively on) the console port.  I wonder if the problem4 : is really a flow-control problem in the OP driver?< I tried various handshaking settings on Wyse, with no effect: on its behavior.  Even "no handshake" has no effect, maybe< suggesting that op driver wasn't respecting protocol anyway.7 But I also set crfill=lffill=9, trying to "emulate" it,a and that also had no effect.   : (I'veo9 : also seen problems using a DECterm, both locally (Alphao< : console) and served by a DEC Unix workstation (V4.0d), but= : these problems occur much less often.  Problems are usuallyG9 : of the form of the cursor displaying one line down frome< : where it should be, scraps of old text left on the screen,. : and the scrolling regions getting messed up.7 Sounds more or less like what I've observed.  I've also.9 lost text, i.e., lines that I know are in the file aren'te displayed, e.g.,3    1. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. 3    2. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. 3    3. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.a3    4. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.c3    5. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.i3    6. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.h3    7. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.a3    8. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.  in the filer becomesn3    1. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.w3    2. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.t3    3. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.i3    4. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.sI    5. The quick brown fox jumped over the la6.he lag7d over the lazy dog.a)    ---and further messed up below this---a on the screen.@      If I write this to a new version of the file _immediately_,A without any editing, the new version is okay.  If I try doing any E editing, the new version is corrupted, pretty much like the displayedO
 screen image.o  
 : (4,7:w mode ; : splits the screen into two scrolling regions, a large one > : at the top to display the text and a small one at the bottom; : for command input.  When the scrolling regions get messedt: : up, the command window scrolls up into the text window.): I set Wyse to vt52 mode, and that worked okay.  Of course,7 keypad and other functionality didn't work quite right, 9 but file displayed exactly as it should, with no problems>2 at all.  The next step up, vt100, has the problem.< (I can't recall offhand whether stbm is implemented on vt100 or only in vt220 and better.)   : : The problems when using DECTerm occur very rarely, maybe7 : once every few weeks when using TECO constantly.  The-6 : problems on a real VT420 on a VAX/Alpha console port6 : (OPA0:) occur almost every time I try to use TECO in9 : that environment.  TECO seems to work fine when used ons8 : a VT420 connected via a LAT terminal server (DECserver4 : 200 & 700), and while telnet'ed or SET HOSTed from : another node.y4 All I could try was  set host 0  from opa0, and that5 didn't work any better (I didn't expect it would, butS gave it a try anyway).  6 : I don't use EDT, but your problems sound similar and : may have a common cause.3 Any solution?  Thanks for additional clarification,y John (forkosh@panix.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:41:23 +0100 & From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files- Message-ID: <3B99F5D3.280F904B@aerosys.co.uk>i   John Forkosh wrote:, > # > John Santos (JOHN@egh.com) wrote:-9 > : Could this be a console terminal driver problem?  Seet
 > : below:? > Sounds about consistent with my additional tests (see below), : > except that a Win-NT box running KEA emulator (as vt420)A > worked completely okay when plugged into vs's mmj port as opa0.eA > It's only the physical Wyse-285 that messes up when plugged in. > > Is that observation consistent with terminal driver problem? >   R Would think that it's unlikely to be a terminal driver problem if it works with anW emulator, more likely to be Wyse firmware bug. I know this is obvious, but are you surenU you have the Wyse set up for X-on/X-off flow control, 2 wire data and no rts/cts flowl
 control ?.   Chrisn   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 12:00:15 GMTl- From: forkosh@panix2.panix.com (John Forkosh)r$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files) Message-ID: <9nd18f$j65$1@news.panix.com>   ' ChrisQ (lightwork@aerosys.co.uk) wrote:s : John Forkosh wrote: % : > John Santos (JOHN@egh.com) wrote:"; : > : Could this be a console terminal driver problem?  Seet : > : below:A : > Sounds about consistent with my additional tests (see below),f< : > except that a Win-NT box running KEA emulator (as vt420)C : > worked completely okay when plugged into vs's mmj port as opa0.eC : > It's only the physical Wyse-285 that messes up when plugged in.3@ : > Is that observation consistent with terminal driver problem? : >   @ : Would think that it's unlikely to be a terminal driver problemD : if it works with an emulator, more likely to be Wyse firmware bug.C : I know this is obvious, but are you sure you have the Wyse set up.G : for X-on/X-off flow control, 2 wire data and no rts/cts flow control?i : Chris,  ; Comm stuff looks okay to me.  Could be a firmware bug.  Butv: ed/tpu (eve) works perfectly.  Of course, I'm not sure how< differently they manage the screen.  I tried setting Wyse to< "display controls" rather than "interpret controls", but got1 too confused to make much useful sense out of it.e John (forkosh@panix.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 14:50:41 +0100a& From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: ed/edt corrupting files- Message-ID: <3B9A2231.FC95A72F@aerosys.co.uk>h   John Forkosh wrote:R >    > = > Comm stuff looks okay to me.  Could be a firmware bug.  But < > ed/tpu (eve) works perfectly.  Of course, I'm not sure how> > differently they manage the screen.  I tried setting Wyse to> > "display controls" rather than "interpret controls", but got3 > too confused to make much useful sense out of it.r > John (forkosh@panix.com)  U It's not only how the screen is managed, but the data rate in terms of line or screenaX clear, area update, scroll etc, which may take longer with the Wyse terminal's firmware.U What baud rate are you using and have you tried a lower rate to see if that cures thenX problem ?. Reason I ask is that it does look like you are getting data overrun, from the4 example you posted, hence the flow control question.  V My experience is probably years out of date, but the only terminals I found to to workV consistently and without error on Dec systems were Dec's own. I guess you have tried a$ VT2xx / 3xx / 4xx series terminal ?.   Chrise   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 06:46:10 GMT53 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>t! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?y3 Message-ID: <3B99BEB2.9C0CF0C9@mcmail.maricopa.edu>t  /   Interesting article on the inquirererer...er.,     er.s  D   Seems to imply (actually state forthrightly) that HP/UX OS will be1 ported to the alpha. Could be a misquote, though.   -  But what does seem to be fairly explicit is:l  F   "Through the convergence of the best of both HP-UX and Tru64 UNIX we5 will deliver the industry's leading enterprise UNIX."a  B   Personally, I have more hope for EV7 and VMS under HP than underF Compaq. Compaq's buying of Digital sort of made me think of Tonka toysH buying Boeing. About the highest level of engineering that Compaq seemedD to be interested in was in box design. HP, however, has some serious experience in engineering.  A   At a very minimum they will have some inkling of what they havetD bought. I don't think that Compaq ever really knew what they had, or what to do with it.e  
 --Carl Nelsonl  D p.s. Here's the article URL: http://www.theinquirer.org/07090102.htm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:35:51 -0400( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?tK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080933310.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>a  & On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Carl Nelson wrote:  1 >   Interesting article on the inquirererer...er.. >  >   er.  > F >   Seems to imply (actually state forthrightly) that HP/UX OS will be3 > ported to the alpha. Could be a misquote, though.t >   I A question for any of our resident Alpha engineering experts. I have seen)E mentioned a number of times the concept that the Alpha can run eitherfG big-endian or little-endian.  Is there any performance impact on either-5 one or would it perform equally well in either mode??   ' Not really important, but I am curious.    bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:28:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?L, Message-ID: <3B9A3909.54E84C0C@videotron.ca>   Carl Nelson wrote:D >   Personally, I have more hope for EV7 and VMS under HP than underH > Compaq. Compaq's buying of Digital sort of made me think of Tonka toys > buying Boeing. d  	 Good one.a  : >About the highest level of engineering that Compaq seemedF > to be interested in was in box design. HP, however, has some serious > experience in engineering.  J Is that really the case ? Weren't the "brains" of HP spun off in Agilent ?K Isn't Agilent the one with all the engineering brains to build high qualityaM instruments ? (Is it agilent that now builds those reverse polish calculatorsh ? (do they still make them ?).  N Seems to me that what is left of HP is more or less a copycat image of Compaq:M primarily a wintel box maker with a succesful printer division and an attemptu> at keeping what is left of their original enterprise business.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:58:58 GMT 3 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>s! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?o3 Message-ID: <3B9A4043.B0EA696B@mcmail.maricopa.edu>.   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   >-K > A question for any of our resident Alpha engineering experts. I have seen.G > mentioned a number of times the concept that the Alpha can run eitherbI > big-endian or little-endian.  Is there any performance impact on eitherN7 > one or would it perform equally well in either mode??P >7) > Not really important, but I am curious.i >  > bill >p  >   I'm not an Alpha engineering expert, but I play one on TV...  M   I seem to remember, from snips of code in the architecture handbook and theyK compiler writer's guide, that there is a one or two instruction penalty forbL big-endian access under certain circumstances. IIRC these were mainly in theL case of certain unaligned memory access sequences. With aligned access thereH were no differences, and with most, if not all, of the non-memory access+ sequences there were no differences at all.-  L   So, depending on how well aligned your data was and how often you twiddledK your unaligned data, the penalty could be anywhere from nothing at all to a- few percent.  J   I seem to remember some portion of the address calculation that twiddledK some bits in the formation of the virtual address generated if the chip wastE in big-endian mode, but left them untouched if in little-endian mode.y  F   There would be some code that would need to be modified for registerI manipulation that varies from big to little, but I don't seem to rememberoJ thinking that it was much different performance-wise. Pretty much the same" amount of fiddling in either case.   --Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 16:38:13 GMTt3 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>A! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?n3 Message-ID: <3B9A4977.4564C18D@mcmail.maricopa.edu>    JF Mezei wrote:m   > Carl Nelson wrote:F > >   Personally, I have more hope for EV7 and VMS under HP than underJ > > Compaq. Compaq's buying of Digital sort of made me think of Tonka toys > > buying Boeing. >g > Good one.4 >f< > >About the highest level of engineering that Compaq seemedH > > to be interested in was in box design. HP, however, has some serious > > experience in engineering. >IL > Is that really the case ? Weren't the "brains" of HP spun off in Agilent ?M > Isn't Agilent the one with all the engineering brains to build high qualityhO > instruments ? (Is it agilent that now builds those reverse polish calculatorst  > ? (do they still make them ?).  N   I really don't know. But high-end instruments and calculators are not reallyF what I was talking about. I meant more on the order of experience withL engineering computer systems. At least above the level of "buy a cpu from A,Q mother board from B, disk from C, OS from Microsoft, and put it allllll together"aP engineering. More along the lines of "The Crossbar for our Superdome system usesJ a 400Mhz nonblocking protocol and is implemented in a six-layer copper, 18M million transistor custom IC"... which was developed inhouse. Not exactly the. same as choosing case colors.    >  >kP > Seems to me that what is left of HP is more or less a copycat image of Compaq:O > primarily a wintel box maker with a succesful printer division and an attempto@ > at keeping what is left of their original enterprise business.  Q   HP has experience with large and involved engineering projects. It's managementnM grew up in a company which was predicated more on engineering than marketing. Q Sort of makes me think of Digital with an actual marketing department. Compaq was P little more than an assembly and marketing arm of Intel & Microsoft. They didn'tQ grow up with engineers who would walk into a manager's office and say "We need atcI least five months exclusive access to twenty million dollars of computingrO hardware to verify the cache coherency protocol across the crossbar for our xyz-P project" without blinking. Or needing eight meetings just to get a vague idea ofG what the engineer was asking for, and then five more to turn them down.9  M   They also have a marketing division which knows how to sell something othersK than pretty boxes. And a sales force which already sells large systems, and K doesn't have to go from selling <$1,000 boxes to >$1,000,000 systems on the  say-so of a memo from on high.  J   IMHO, the problems Alpha & VMS have been experiencing were not technicalP problems as much as they were managerial, marketing and sales problems. I see HPO as correcting these problems fairly effectively. How much they can salvage from@M the Compaq-Digital trainwreck, and how much they *will* salvage remains to bes seen.e   --Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:08:55 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>i! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? ( Message-ID: <9ndj9b$oj7$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ "Carl Nelson" <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu> wrote in message- news:3B9A4977.4564C18D@mcmail.maricopa.edu...k >p >e > JF Mezei wrote:k >  > > Carl Nelson wrote:H > > >   Personally, I have more hope for EV7 and VMS under HP than underL > > > Compaq. Compaq's buying of Digital sort of made me think of Tonka toys > > > buying Boeing. > >z
 > > Good one.w > >:> > > >About the highest level of engineering that Compaq seemedJ > > > to be interested in was in box design. HP, however, has some serious  > > > experience in engineering. > >aL > > Is that really the case ? Weren't the "brains" of HP spun off in Agilent ?sG > > Isn't Agilent the one with all the engineering brains to build highc qualityTE > > instruments ? (Is it agilent that now builds those reverse polish  calculatorss" > > ? (do they still make them ?). > I >   I really don't know. But high-end instruments and calculators are notn reallyH > what I was talking about. I meant more on the order of experience withK > engineering computer systems. At least above the level of "buy a cpu fromT A,I > mother board from B, disk from C, OS from Microsoft, and put it allllllh	 together"mF > engineering. More along the lines of "The Crossbar for our Superdome system uses L > a 400Mhz nonblocking protocol and is implemented in a six-layer copper, 18K > million transistor custom IC"... which was developed inhouse. Not exactly  thew > same as choosing case colors.?  K Compaq acquired that same kind of experience when it acquired DEC.  And one.I should note that this experience wasn't being put to all that good use attE DEC before that acquisition, so its existence is no guarantee of good  top-level management.t   >  > >o > >cJ > > Seems to me that what is left of HP is more or less a copycat image of Compaq:)I > > primarily a wintel box maker with a succesful printer division and anm attemptoB > > at keeping what is left of their original enterprise business. >eH >   HP has experience with large and involved engineering projects. It's
 managementD > grew up in a company which was predicated more on engineering than
 marketing.  L Unfortunately, it's not that clear that its *current* management did.  CarlyG may have come from Lucent, but she was a sales type (and still seems to2J think that all she has to do is sell this merger, regardless of whether it actually makes any sense).  H > Sort of makes me think of Digital with an actual marketing department.
 Compaq wasK > little more than an assembly and marketing arm of Intel & Microsoft. They7 didn'tK > grow up with engineers who would walk into a manager's office and say "Wee need atyK > least five months exclusive access to twenty million dollars of computingyI > hardware to verify the cache coherency protocol across the crossbar forc our xyzoJ > project" without blinking. Or needing eight meetings just to get a vague idea of I > what the engineer was asking for, and then five more to turn them down.  >-I >   They also have a marketing division which knows how to sell somethingt other I > than pretty boxes. And a sales force which already sells large systems,  and I > doesn't have to go from selling <$1,000 boxes to >$1,000,000 systems onk the   > say-so of a memo from on high. >wL >   IMHO, the problems Alpha & VMS have been experiencing were not technicalK > problems as much as they were managerial, marketing and sales problems. I  see HP2 > as correcting these problems fairly effectively.  L The only way to correct the problems with Alpha is to resurrect it, which HPL has already said they don't plan to do (in their statement that they plannedD to observe the nature of the Intel deal).  That may well be the onlyL feasible way to correct the problems with VMS as well, since by the time VMSG is available on IA64 there may be too few customers left for it to be as going proposition.   - bill    How much they can salvage fromeL > the Compaq-Digital trainwreck, and how much they *will* salvage remains to be > seen.t >  > --Carl >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 17:46:56 GMTe2 From: ap333@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Marvin Kaplansky)+ Subject: HP Compaq Buyout Editorial Cartoon / Message-ID: <9ndlig$mcc$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>n  H There was a rather good editorial cartoon in Friday's Ottawa Citizen. ItI shows a large frog labelled Hewlett Packard swallowing another large frog  labelled Compaq.  H The HP frog is thinking: "You know, now that I think of it, I'm not even
 that hungry".d  , The cartoon, by Cameron Cardow, is online at' www.syndicam.com/cartoons/cartoons.htmla     Marvin Kaplansky   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 05:59:58 GMT:) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)F6 Subject: HP/CPQ Merger Bad For All (Houston Chronicle)' Message-ID: <9ncc4u$ddm$2@joe.rice.edu> & Keywords: hp,compaq,merger,acquisition   From:?  6 http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1039632  F   "If there was ever a bad idea turned into an awful deal, this is it.F    Here are two companies struggling in a depressed technology market,C    both seemingly lost in an increasingly stark wilderness. Neithere2    company is healthy enough to swallow the other.  E    Want another analogy? Try this: If you've got someone in danger of E    drowning, you don't dispatch another non-swimmer to the rescue..."r   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:17:12 +0200 * From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>: Subject: Re: Passing arguments to Dec C program at runtime* Message-ID: <3B99E218.6080309@tzora.co.il>  = Just to get this clear: Did you enter the device as "ddcu:" ?i7 You should translate it to your local disk device name,h e.g "disk$user1:" in your case.o  3 Apologies if I've misread / misunderstood you here..   ~Mikee   Barry Skidmore wrote:     F > %CLI-F-OPENOUT, error opening DDCU:[skidmore.programs.pi]test.obj;as > output > 	}C > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type forA > operation at line number 9 inc, > disk$user1:[skidmore.programs.pi]test.c;2.    E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*pE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"tE ---------------------------------------------------------------------n* ------ GEEK CODE BLOCK (Version: 3.1)-----( GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++' N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t X- tv-- b+  DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@m* ---------- END GEEK CODE BLOCK  ----------   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 17:04:53 GMTd, From: bjskidmore@macbbs.com (Barry Skidmore): Subject: Re: Passing arguments to Dec C program at runtime0 Message-ID: <3b9a4f6b.155397771@news.iquest.net>  1 On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:17:12 +0200, Mike Rechtmani <rechtman@tzora.co.il> wrote:. Mike,F  ? Yes, I missunderstood the purpose of "ddcu" and used it insteado/ of "disk$user1:"  Thanks for the clarification.    Barryv  > >Just to get this clear: Did you enter the device as "ddcu:" ?8 >You should translate it to your local disk device name,  >e.g "disk$user1:" in your case. >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:16:53 +0010n% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auo6 Subject: Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?5 Message-ID: <01K83ST4P49E004V5R@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>a   Ken Fairfield wrote:  ? >   I'd like to request that any and all denizens of c.o.v. who = >will be at CETS 2001 next week(?), if at all possible, would ; >you please post daily News and Updates from "on the scene" 8 >here so that those of us not present can stay informed?  L As an "out-of-towner" never likely to be able to get to any of these US (or 4 even UK/European) events, I too would be interested.  L OT.  Since the Atlantic is know as "the pond", what is the Pacific known as?   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 12:23:48 +0200r  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>6 Subject: Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?+ Message-ID: <VA.00000432.4bd43a38@sture.ch>e  = In article <01K83ST4P49E004V5R@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>,  wrote:s > Ken Fairfield wrote: > A > >   I'd like to request that any and all denizens of c.o.v. whoC? > >will be at CETS 2001 next week(?), if at all possible, woulde= > >you please post daily News and Updates from "on the scene"H: > >here so that those of us not present can stay informed? > N > As an "out-of-towner" never likely to be able to get to any of these US (or 6 > even UK/European) events, I too would be interested. >iK Me too. I did consider attending, but cost apart, it would have eaten into C some long overdue holidays.d  N > OT.  Since the Atlantic is know as "the pond", what is the Pacific known as? > * Big Pond? Isn't www.bigpond.com an Oz ISP? ___w
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:12:16 -0400( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>6 Subject: Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080910310.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>m  / On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Kenneth H. Fairfield wrote:E  @ >    I'd like to request that any and all denizens of c.o.v. who> > will be at CETS 2001 next week(?), if at all possible, would< > you please post daily News and Updates from "on the scene"9 > here so that those of us not present can stay informed?h >   E I'd like to suggest that any and all denizens of c.o.v who will be athA CETS 2001 next week say "hi" to Bob Curley from the University ofeA Scranton.  All the sudden popularity should drive him nuts!!  :-)t   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   (   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 16:17:18 GMT & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: RIP Bill Gatest% Message-ID: <9ndgae$m9u@web.nmti.com>s  O In article <9n3t8t$b6e$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote::M > Tru64 suffers in this acquisition from being the technology of the acquireewM > rather than the acquirer, from competing with an existing Unix owned by therN > acquirer, from being a little-endian system that won't easily be melded withL > the acquirer's big-endian system, from being currently available only on aI > lame-duck hardware platform, and from already having given a lot of itsm# > differentiating goodies to Linux.    ISTR IA64 is little-endian.   J And if you think Tru64 has given away most of its differentiating goodies,K well, you haven't been paying attention. Where's Linux clustering? Beowulf?e2 And either of AdvFS or UFS are better than Ext2fs.   -- I+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.lE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."aL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2001 17:09:31 GMTo* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Subject: Re: RIP Bill Gatesa2 Message-ID: <9ndjcb$c24$1@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>  % In article <9ndgae$m9u@web.nmti.com>,R) 	peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:4Q > In article <9n3t8t$b6e$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:rN >> Tru64 suffers in this acquisition from being the technology of the acquireeN >> rather than the acquirer, from competing with an existing Unix owned by theO >> acquirer, from being a little-endian system that won't easily be melded withaM >> the acquirer's big-endian system, from being currently available only on a J >> lame-duck hardware platform, and from already having given a lot of its$ >> differentiating goodies to Linux. >  > ISTR IA64 is little-endian.  > L > And if you think Tru64 has given away most of its differentiating goodies,+ > well, you haven't been paying attention. t  $ > Where's Linux clustering? Beowulf?  K What about MOSIX or Compaq's SSI-Linux and CI-Linux?  Granted, the last twoeK are in early development and based on the Nonstop cluster for unixware, bute, I can't believe there's not some bleed over.    4 > And either of AdvFS or UFS are better than Ext2fs.  I Based on what?  I've never had any problems with ext2.  In any case, with J IBM's JFS and SGI's XFS now available, there are plenty of filesystems for5 linux which are equal to or better than UFS & AdvFS. n      
 Brian Wheelers bdwheele@indiana.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:22:59 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o Subject: Re: RIP Bill Gatese( Message-ID: <9ndk3q$ps1$1@pyrite.mv.net>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message  news:9ndgae$m9u@web.nmti.com...-J > In article <9n3t8t$b6e$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:F > > Tru64 suffers in this acquisition from being the technology of the acquireeK > > rather than the acquirer, from competing with an existing Unix owned byg the K > > acquirer, from being a little-endian system that won't easily be melded  withL > > the acquirer's big-endian system, from being currently available only on apK > > lame-duck hardware platform, and from already having given a lot of itsg% > > differentiating goodies to Linux.t >e > ISTR IA64 is little-endian.h  H IA64 is bi-endian, as are Alpha and Power (don't know about SPARC).  ButJ HP-UX is big-endian, and Tru64 is little-endian, and never the twain shallK meet (at least not without significant non-transparent pain to at least one 	 of them).e   >nL > And if you think Tru64 has given away most of its differentiating goodies,* > well, you haven't been paying attention.  D I suspect you're the one who hasn't been paying attention.  Compaq'sD open-source project is in the process of porting single-system-image, clustering facilities to Linux, for example.   > Where's Linux clustering?l  F Linux clustering is everywhere, though admittedly not yet as mature asJ Tru64's.  A group of Tru64 developers formed Mission Critical Linux over aK year ago and have a product out.  Other products exist for Web service (no,iH they're not full-function clusters IMO, but they do that job well).  I'mK hardly an expert on the overall state of clustering on Linux, but know thatiH HPC cluster facilities like Beowulf have recently been joined by several> high-availability clustering approaches, with more on the way.  	  Beowulf?c4 > And either of AdvFS or UFS are better than Ext2fs.  L And XFS is probably better than any of them - and was released on Linux lastK May.  AIX's JFS is also a respectable filesystem, and was released on LinuxyH recently.  I like a lot of what's in Reiserfs too, but AFAIK it's not asL ready for commercial use yet.  Ext3fs may or may not yet be product-quality,F but should eliminate most objections to Ext2fs in an upward-compatible manner.    - bill   >w > --- >  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.dG >   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."p; >                                                        --s nicolai@esperi.org >          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:17:13 -0400e3 From: mike & cheryl marshall <tmarshall04@snet.net>n Subject: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS( Message-ID: <3B98E4F9.88B39EC6@snet.net>  G ok...i got SAMBA 2.0.3, unzipped it in a dir, looked at the readme...iteG said to type @LINK, then @INSTALL...but at both of these commands i get0C %RMS-W-RTB, 512 byte record too large for user's buffer...what am ib missing?...thanks in advance Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 17:49:51 +0200 < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>  Subject: Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS( Message-ID: <3B9A3E1F.116D8036@home.com>  = The text files don't seem to have been stored as they should.-; What command in LINK.COM or INSTALL.COM gave these errors ?0   What UnZip do you use ?lG Check if your UnZip have any option that might be of interest such as :g! "-a  auto-convert any text files" B That option is from "UnZip 5.40 of 28 November 1998, by Info-ZIP".  * Could you post the link to the SAMBA kit ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   mike & cheryl marshall wrote:  > I > ok...i got SAMBA 2.0.3, unzipped it in a dir, looked at the readme...it I > said to type @LINK, then @INSTALL...but at both of these commands i get E > %RMS-W-RTB, 512 byte record too large for user's buffer...what am iv > missing?...thanks in advance > Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 12:08:57 -0400 3 From: mike & cheryl marshall <tmarshall04@snet.net>l  Subject: Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS( Message-ID: <3B98F119.18D9BF6A@snet.net>  I ftp://ftp.samba.org/pub/samba/bin-pkgs/vms/...here is the link... i think J that i might have messed up because i unzipped the files on a PC and ftp'dJ them to the alpha...being impatient and not wanting to try and use the VMS
 unzip programe   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:   ? > The text files don't seem to have been stored as they should.p= > What command in LINK.COM or INSTALL.COM gave these errors ?e >v > What UnZip do you use ? I > Check if your UnZip have any option that might be of interest such as : # > "-a  auto-convert any text files" D > That option is from "UnZip 5.40 of 28 November 1998, by Info-ZIP". >n, > Could you post the link to the SAMBA kit ? >e > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >n > mike & cheryl marshall wrote:v > >dK > > ok...i got SAMBA 2.0.3, unzipped it in a dir, looked at the readme...itiK > > said to type @LINK, then @INSTALL...but at both of these commands i get G > > %RMS-W-RTB, 512 byte record too large for user's buffer...what am ie  > > missing?...thanks in advance > > Mike   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 16:53:22 GMTm1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial>   Subject: Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS0 Message-ID: <3B9A4BB5.B3244374@yahoo.commercial>   mike & cheryl marshall wrote:i > K > ftp://ftp.samba.org/pub/samba/bin-pkgs/vms/...here is the link... i think L > that i might have messed up because i unzipped the files on a PC and ftp'dL > them to the alpha...being impatient and not wanting to try and use the VMS > unzip programh  - Did you FTP all the files across in bin mode?y   -- a Ed Wensell III" http://www.geocities.com/ewensell35 E-mail address slightly bunged. You've been warned...i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:40:27 GMTo* From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com>  Subject: Setting File Attributes6 Message-ID: <LZqm7.653$Iw2.28397@petpeeve.ziplink.net>  H This is an offshoot of the thread concerning how to read a file that was written with embeddedaH <cr> characters as line markers but was inappropriately set to Stream-LF form.o  H I'm David, but not David Spencer,  the person with the original problem.  H > So probably all you (david) needed to do was to set the file format to > to stream_cr withe >d) > $ set file/attribute=RFM:STMCR file.txt  > 7 > and anything that uses RMS should be able to read it.e >m  J This is the best answer so far, provided it works.  As somebody else said,) making the file attributes agree with thel> file contents is more elegant than resorting to special calls.   It's also more robust, IMO.k  G Now, I want to talk about two cases where I've used "set attributes" or&" "convert/fdl"  to get what I want.  C The first case is the famous "VMS BACKUP save set that has lost itsa  attributes"  case.  For example,E and VMS SAVESET has been FTPed to a file serve on the net, for publichC download.  Then, it's been FTPed to another VMS site.  But the filetF attributes show that it's a file made up of 512 byte records,  and VMS BACKUP can't read it.d  F My solution was kind of BS,  but it worked!  I just found out what the% default record size of VMS BACKUP is,sH and set the file attributes to be fixed length records of that size.  ItH worked!  BACKUP was able to list and extract the contents of the savesetH just fine.  The length I ended up using was 63 * 512 bytes, IIRC.  I gotC that length by just making a saveset and looking at the attributes.   A This solution, together with some kind of documentation about itsnI limitations,  ought to be in a VMS FAQ site somewhere on the web.  People$L are always coming up with savesets that were stored on Unix systems, and areG now unusable.  Less so now than a few years back, but it still happens.o  H The second case involves files served up by a LAN file server running onG VMS.  I very sorry, but I don't remember the SW, much less the version,,J that provided the file service.  Anyway, it made all the files on a volumeC visible to desktop systems, like Windoze machines, on a TCP/IP lan.   I You would think that such an arrangement would eat up Stream-LF.  But NO!P$ The danged file server was providingJ control characters that would make the average dumb program on the desktopJ choke.  An example of program that would choke was MS Access.  We has someI software, called SQR  (since bought up by BRIO)  that generated Stream-LF  output.r  D Somebody had a complicated MS-DOS program to fix up the mess,  but I discovered a cleaner way.nL If you used an appropriate "convert/fdl"  command to produce a "vanilla RMS" file,  with variable lengthgL records and implicit carriage control,  it turns out the network file server3 served these files up over the network beautifully.   J Apparently the file server was treating the file as containing ASCII text,L and not just a bag of bytes.  I wish I could dig up the details,  so I couldI put this into  a FAQ,  too.  People are always stumbling over this one, I  think.  J So, what do you think?  Are these problems sufficiently common to be FAQs?. Do my solutions belong in the answers to them?                         -- Regards,     David Cresseyu     www.dcressey.com- "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messageF0 news:1010907163900.64342B-100000@Ives.egh.com...   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.500 ************************