1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 11 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 506       Contents: Re: A very sad moment.!  Re: Any news from DECUS? Ben Rosen the real culprit?  Re: Big black helicopters ( cancel <3B9E356F.F0A0576C@aerosys.co.uk> Re: DECRAM in OpenVMS  Re: Device names Re: Device names emacs for the alpha/vms  Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? fissh SSH client for VMS Re: Future Of VMS ?  Re: Future Of VMS ?  Re: Future Of VMS ?  Re: Future Of VMS ? 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 7 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit 7 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq ! International Securities Exchange % Re: International Securities Exchange ( Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ???( Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ??? MicroVAX II - Test #3 (8)  Re: More VMS Wish List Items...  Re: moving app to x,y location Re: moving app to x,y location Re: moving app to x,y location/ new free utilities again (upd 10 & 11/sep/2001(  Re: OpenVMS on API's CS20 ?  Re: OpenVMS on API's CS20 ?  OT:: Re: World Trade Center - Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001? - Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?  Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS : Re: The Register: For hire: Compaq's iPaq engineering team VAX/VMS Debug instructions?  Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?  Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?  Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?  Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions? # Re: VaxStation 3100 Install Problem # Re: VaxStation 3100 Install Problem & Re: VMS 7.2 / CMU-IP6.6.5K FTP problem( VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies., Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies., Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies., Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies., Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies.5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? + Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?) + Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?) + Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?) + Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?) 3 RE: Where can I get a micro-Vax with vms in the UK?  World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:43:12 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: A very sad moment.!$ Message-ID: <3b9e3109$1@news.si.com>  A >how many people can say they've worked on a Perkin Elmer system?   H I can.  I developed some code on an IBM mainframe and then was sent withC this app to a customer of ours to install it on their Perkin-Elmer.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 12:21:22 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: Any news from DECUS? 3 Message-ID: <KUNlfdVJ5tN3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <eFbn7.130850$aZ.18343680@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes: I > Any inspiring speeches?  Any confidence building announcements?  Is the  > Update.Daily up on the web?   H I don't think anyone here would be inspired by mere speeches.  There wasF good technical information yesterday, but all sessions today have been2 cancelled due to events unrelated to Compaq or HP.  A Update.Daily on Monday was just a formal list of session changes;  nothing creative.   E I have been very pleased with the printed program and schedule (until  it got cancelled for Tuesday).  A One Compaq speaker said that of 200 semiconductor workers offered 4 jobs at Intel in the initial batch, only 1 declined.  2 There is (a little) other discussion on DECUServe.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:18:32 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> $ Subject: Ben Rosen the real culprit?8 Message-ID: <u4lrptk2ikvcct6etosv33q1gtvkt9rg2p@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:05:10 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  wrote:    K >I'm afraid you've arrived at this party just a bit late.  People have been K >doing this kind of thing, first with DEC, then with Compaq, for the better M >part of a decade now.  It doesn't work, and there's no indication that Carly I >is a cut above the people we've been dealing with before (not to mention : >even farther from any personal knowledge of the product).  C Perhaps the mistake we made was in not addressing communications to C Compaq founder Ben Rosen. According to the Wall Street Journal he's > the real driver behind all of this which is probably why CurlyD mentioned that he had talked this over with Ben Rosen in his memo toC staff. If so he's been made to carry the can. In any case Curly and B Rosey seem to be contradicting each other. Rosey also told the WSJC that this deal would go through come what may. Anyone know off-hand # what percentage of shares he holds?   F Another source suggested it to me like this: "Rosen just wants to cash
 in his chips"    >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:11:36 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au " Subject: Re: Big black helicopters5 Message-ID: <01K87ZHMSHS2004YPT@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   2 The anonymous politics200@hotmail.com again wrote:  D [And I have snipped, but retain what I believe to be relevant parts]  D >It's interesting, disheartening and more than a bit alarming that aD >citizen who expresses a desire for his or her country to govern its# >own affairs is labeled as a bigot.   J This is not what you originally wrote, and to which I replied.  Since you L mentioned my name, without any quotation, I have included my original reply + and your comment to which I took exception.    I said:   - >The anonymous politics200@hotmail.com wrote:  > , >[Amongst other things which I shall ignore] > B >>At the risk of insulting the Europeans who pay attention to thisF >>group, it's irrelevant what Europeans think of American law, whetherF >>we're talking about software or gun control or anything else.  TheirF >>opinion should carry no weight in this or any other discussion sinceD >>we are not obligated to acquiesce to their policies (nor should weD >>ever be).  Who cares if there are European "standards" for what isA >>considered a monoply ... reality is a better yardstick than the 9 >>whimsical notions of socialist-infiltrated governments.  > D >No offense intended to the many rational US "friends" here, but ... > L >Are you one of the remaining US bigots who believe they're the only country >in the world? > G >Forget about gun control, I would see that as internal to any country.  > K >The Microsoft software is a different issue.  They have offices and retail L >outlets in many/most countries.  And within each country they must abide by >that country's laws.  > L >You have just more-or-less stated that regardless of whichever country thatK >Microsoft trades in, they need only adhere to laws (and how much money was K >given to the incoming presidential candidate) made in US.  Bloody bigotted 
 >bullshit. >  >Paddy O'Brien  H The paragraph of yours was not a patriotic statement as you have become L alarmed about.  I concur that every citizen would expect such a desire, but H you have just stated more-or-less that if its not US, why should anyone L (specifically Europe) be allowed any opinions.  That is what I consider BBB.   And to your comment:  G >And why would the U.S. want to take cues from other nations around the  >world anyway? [snips]   I Probably because the US as a nation realises that it is not yet the only  H nation on this planet, though one US subject does nearly rule the world.   And to your comment:  G >You don't have to be a betting man to like the odds that Paddy O'Brien . >thinks the U.N. is a benevolent organization. [snips]   H I'm glad that you know me well enough to be prepared to take bets on my L beliefs.  I have obviously forgotten the memorable discussion we had over a 2 couple of beers regarding my conception of the UN.  F The snipping I did was party political ranting in line with the email K address.  I should get myself a hotmail account: vms2001-3001@hotmail.com,  M because I must admit I am somewhat a bigot myself in this aspect.  For those  N on this newsgroup who will still be around in 3001, I have a strong suspicion ) that I shall be around only in spirit :-)   K We are getting a lot of dog-eats-dog at the moment, and I have just become   part of it :-(  
 Paddy O'Brien    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:02:24 +0100 & From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>1 Subject: cancel <3B9E356F.F0A0576C@aerosys.co.uk> ? Message-ID: <8wqn7.20674$9h7.410687@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>   / This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 11:09:47 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: DECRAM in OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <FOJ04zZe8kI5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <5jDm7.4052$_J1.152740@nntp1.chello.se>, "Michael Sjgren" <mixi@chello.se> writes: > Dear wizards and magicians, L > A supplier of very specific software told me that DECRAM was necessary forN > good speed. The local IS/IT department says that the CACHE replaces the need
 > for DECRAM.  > Which is true?  A That depends entirely on the application and system tuning skill.    > IS DECRAM still out there?  & Yes.  Version 3.0 just came out.  See:  Q http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/LATEST_RELEASE_INFORMATION/248.29.HTML    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:39:05 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: Device names " Message-ID: <3b9e2202@news.si.com>  K >I have changed the node and volume names, and the node address, but the if  I J >use the command "show device do", it list the disks with the pre-deliverdJ >names i.e.  name$device,  I would like to change the name part of this to  >read the same as the node name.  , I believe that's based on the SCSNODE value. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:32:01 -0500 & From: "JR McKenzie" <mrjr@airmail.net> Subject: Re: Device names O Message-ID: <00CB0D6B350C9E97.92CB721279D31071.E96D9DE5AA7933D0@lp.airnews.net>   - Change your allocation parameter  back to "0" F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3b9e2202@news.si.com...J > >I have changed the node and volume names, and the node address, but the if > I L > >use the command "show device do", it list the disks with the pre-deliverdL > >names i.e.  name$device,  I would like to change the name part of this to" > >read the same as the node name. > . > I believe that's based on the SCSNODE value. > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent > > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:24:35 +0200 4 From: "Douglas Nichols" <d.nichols@publitec.vnu.com>  Subject: emacs for the alpha/vms4 Message-ID: <3b9dae25$0$212$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>  L Does anyone know where we/I can get a copy of emacs for the alpha machine? IE am quite fedup with the tpu editor, not that it is bad mind you. Just  preference.    thanks dn   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 09:32:43 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? H Message-ID: <y4pu8ykwro.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   8 > Consider all of the TCPIP applications, including NFS.% > Consider file formats such as TIFF  L > On the other hand, many other file formats (flash .swf files for instance) > assume a specific endianness  K These are the data structures that are documented in some way or the other, L and the applications that use them make allowance for the fact they might beC running on a wrong-endian system. However, such applications are an G infinitesimal fraction of all applications a ported DUNIX would have to K support, not to speak of latent bugs in little-endian code (e.g., passing a J 4-byte integer by reference to an argument declared to be 2 bytes in size)J that will immediately break on a big-endian system. It won't help your, or> rather HC's business to scold their customers for such lapses.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 07:46:53 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? 3 Message-ID: <D8Ml+ws6AEfh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <9nj1ku$djq$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B9CFB89.BC0F4FAD@videotron.ca... >  > ...  > I >> This is why I feel that the HP and Compaq funeral announcement is good  > newsJ >> for EV7 because I think that HP will keep Tru64 on Alpha while HP-UP isC >> upgraded on IA64 to allow painless migration from Tru64-Alpha to 
 > HP-UX-IA64.  > M > That this is what they plan to do now seems to be becoming clear.  What you M > still fail to grasp (despite several explanations) is that a migration from K > little-endian to big-endian is *by definition* not 'painless' (though how / > much pain occurs varies among installations).  > G    A migration from DEC (Compaq) compilers to HP compilers in itself is     painfull enough.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:02:14 +0200 $ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch>! Subject: fissh SSH client for VMS  Message-ID: <3b9dfd47$1@hcwe67>    Hi All,   L the authors of this software seem nor to be reachable anymore. Does somebody know about there whereabouts?    best regards   Jakob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:35:37 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: Future Of VMS ?8 Message-ID: <3fmrptsgtjqu74ab8l5nbc4df0s53vkvf2@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:31:49 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >  >Is MPE being ported to IA64 ?   No., -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:20:33 GMT 0 From: Peter.Corrigan@Computershare_no_spam.co.uk Subject: Re: Future Of VMS ?0 Message-ID: <3b9e0eff.18640413@news.demon.co.uk>  D Sorry to interrupt.. mind if I ask what the acronym MPE stands for ?   Thanks /Pete  , On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:31:49 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >Jerry Leslie wrote:& >> A friend and former coworker wrote:J >>   "When Carly publicly says it's valuable and what she will do with it. >>    Until then, assume dead."  >  >I woudln't go so far. > M >"Until then, assume VMS is put in essentially maintenance mode on Alpha only  >foir the next 10 years".  >  >  >Is MPE being ported to IA64 ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:24:05 GMT 1 From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi>  Subject: Re: Future Of VMS ?2 Message-ID: <01c13acd$62f2cab0$9b0ba8c0@rlhkikker>  ; Peter.Corrigan@Computershare_no_spam.co.uk wrote in article ' <3b9e0eff.18640413@news.demon.co.uk>... F > Sorry to interrupt.. mind if I ask what the acronym MPE stands for ? >  > Thanks /Pete >n Multiprogramming Executive  , http://www.hp.com/products1/mpeix/index.html   -Kari-   . > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:31:49 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:M >  > >Jerry Leslie wrote:( > >> A friend and former coworker wrote:H > >>   "When Carly publicly says it's valuable and what she will do with it.u! > >>    Until then, assume dead."  > >  > >I woudln't go so far. > > J > >"Until then, assume VMS is put in essentially maintenance mode on Alpha only > >foir the next 10 years".e > >e > >U  > >Is MPE being ported to IA64 ? >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:46:05 GMTn0 From: "P. Thompson" <thompson-nospam@new.rr.com> Subject: Re: Future Of VMS ?I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109111045400.3478-100000@malacandra.localnet>P  & On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Alan Greig wrote:  . > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:31:49 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:n >n > >a  > >Is MPE being ported to IA64 ? >e > No., > -- > Alan   MPE is being ported.   -- .* Leave the nospam in, correct email address   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 09:13:54 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>i< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)H Message-ID: <y4vgiqkxn1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N  M > On the one hand, it is clear that the June 25 announcement of the murder of 6 > Alpha was done according to the wishes/request of HP  K According to public statement by both Fiorina and Capellas, that is not the  case.    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 09:17:12 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>M< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)H Message-ID: <y4sndukxhj.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  , cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:  L > I thought the Itanium was in some sense compatible with PA-RISC.  Doesn't @ > that make "compatiblity and porting issues" a near no-brainer?  N The IA64 ISA shows quite some PA-RISC heritage, and HP has made sure that theyN can translate PA-RISC code to IA64 code in an efficient and performant way (asN such things go). Nonetheless, the low level stuff in an OS needs to be adaptedO to the new hardware. And there is the problem that with HP-UX being big-endian,eK a HP-UX system on IA64 will be mixed-endian (little-endian code, big-endian-A data), which takes some care in compilers and tools to get right.t   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:07:43 +0100 4 From: M.K.Horsburgh@damtp.cam.ac.uk (Mark Horsburgh)< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)D Message-ID: <slrn9prl2v.8qa.M.K.Horsburgh@krull.dialup.ntlworld.com>  . On 11 Sep 2001 09:13:54 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen8 <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > N >> On the one hand, it is clear that the June 25 announcement of the murder of7 >> Alpha was done according to the wishes/request of HPp > M > According to public statement by both Fiorina and Capellas, that is not the- > case.   I However, it _certainly_ must have been done with HPs acquiescence, at the.I very least. You can't possibly be in the midst of merger negotiations andND sell off a major part of your intellectual property and product lineG without getting the approval of the party you're negotiating with. That I would completely void any due diligence that was being done. You can just G imagine the scene... "Oh, we _did_ have the Alpha, but now we don't. Wes# gave it to Intel. I hope that's OK"o   Mark   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 11 Sep 01 08:02:33 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.como< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nkqb2$ast$3@bob.news.rcn.net>   ( In article <9nj27l$eb7$1@pyrite.mv.net>,+    "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:f >T; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message ' >news:3B9D047E.8BD4580F@videotron.ca...i >> OK, wild speculation: > % >It sounds more like complete drivel.o >E >>J >> Would it be possible that HP intends to merge VMS into HP-UX instead of >Tru64J >> ? Consider that VMS is a superset of Tru64. So if you're going to want  to >get= >> the best of clustering, DLM etc, why not get it from VMS ?p >0H >Because the 'convergence' of HP-UX and Tru64 is a fig-leaf to offer theE >otherwise-completely-abandoned Tru64 customer base - a fig-leaf thatdG >potentially requires just about zero implementation effort (though if   there E >are some Tru64 features that HP actually wants in HP-UX, so much the 	 >better).  >vG >By contrast, the combination of porting VMS to Itanic (something that e aloneaK >is projected to take around 3 years) *and* adding the effort to change it n toI >a big-endian system (work emphatically *not* contemplated in that 3-yearlK >estimate) *and* implementing a *complete* HP-UX facade on it (to the pointwE >that existing HP-UX manuals would correctly describe how to install,mH >configure, and use it) is so immense that no informed individual in his. >right mind would contemplate it for a second.  D You are assuming that the writers (VMS) are still around.  Are they?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:44:49 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> < Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)8 Message-ID: <3ftrptcknbs4imrdjlds860a8s5tr454f7@4ax.com>  8 On Tue, 11 Sep 01 08:02:33 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:     >aE >You are assuming that the writers (VMS) are still around.  Are they?:  A Well obviously the oft mentioned Dave Cutler isn't there. He's attC Microsoft as are many other former DEC engineers. But enough of thehE remaining senior engineers (including a couple that go back to VMS V1iB I believe) have said  that they expect to be able to complete thisE port on time (if allowed) and I believe them. It would have helped ifwC Compaq hadn't just sold all of its compilers teams (including BLISSmE technology) to Intel as they must work closely on any porting project2 but that's a done deal now.   F Also keep in mind that VMS is still in active development and a lot ofE work has been done recently on the OS for the VMS 7.3 release and the 3 DII-COE Unix (spit) compatibility work for the DoD.k  E Porting from Alpha to IA64 shouldn't require anything like the effortuC needed for the VAX to Alpha port.  You might be amused to know thattE much of VMS is still written in Macro-32 which then is cross-compiledW to Alpha and soon IA64..     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:39:35 +0100a0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)* Message-ID: <3B9E0607.55F9E51B@uk.sun.com>   Jeffrey Boulier wrote: > + > In article <3B9CDE47.11C49F5F@mikron.de>, * > Bernd Paysan  <bpaysan@mikron.de> wrote:J > >The other question is: Will Tru64 be killed, too? HP already has HP-UX. > K > I'd say the future would be an HP-UX (with by far the larger market share K > and more work done to make it run on IA-64) obtaining some Tru64 featuresh > and compatibility flags. >   G HP-UX does have a much larger market share than Tru64 at the moment butyF it is also losing market share quicker than any other UNIX. The latestH IDC numbers show that HP's UNIX revenues dropped 10% more than the next G worst performer which was (you guessed it) Tru64. Because of this both bD HP-UX and Tru64 lost market share to Sun and to a lesser extent IBM.  B These numbers were compiled before the merger announcements and it@ will be interesting to say the least to see what effect the news! has on the next quarters numbers.n     Regardsm Andrew Harrisonw Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:15:50 +0100b% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> @ Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit8 Message-ID: <b0hrpt0h5m9qjv7tc1hqgm12qoi2t10u1u@4ax.com>  D On 10 Sep 2001 15:52:08 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:    E >	But he obviously can't speak of anything but Compaq plans.  When/ifn> >	he moves into his designated role at HP , one of two things:  E At the announcement conference I'm fairly sure Carly and Curly statedeF that the merger team including Blackmore would start work immediately.F Blackmore chose to write the memo from his current Compaq perspective.F Had he wished he could easily have spoken on behalf of the merger teamD but he pointedly did not. That doesn't mean that he does not believeF the plans will go through but it does suggest he is not willing to sayD anything at the moment that might cause further embarrassment later.B Which is also the view of the 'HP Insider' quoted by the Inquirer.@ The context of the 'insider' quote suggests he is fairly senior.     -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 11:24:08 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)D@ Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit3 Message-ID: <MdzU7nHNH1O7@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ` In article <b0hrpt0h5m9qjv7tc1hqgm12qoi2t10u1u@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F > On 10 Sep 2001 15:52:08 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  > F >>	But he obviously can't speak of anything but Compaq plans.  When/if? >>	he moves into his designated role at HP , one of two things:u > G > At the announcement conference I'm fairly sure Carly and Curly stateddH > that the merger team including Blackmore would start work immediately.H > Blackmore chose to write the memo from his current Compaq perspective.H > Had he wished he could easily have spoken on behalf of the merger team    G Statements in Anaheim are that under SEC rules he could _not_.  The twoTH companies must continue to compete.  A Tandem speaker was even unwillingH to speculate that HP would want to preserve the Tandem product line.  HeG put up a slide quoting some industry analyst who attributed 1.6 billion2E dollars of annual revenue to Tandem.  Then the speaker mentioned thatnD HP had no fault tolerant products of its own.  But that is as far as3 he would go, according to him because of SEC rules.$   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 06:21:07 -0600 * From: yyyc186@illegaltospam.mindspring.com Subject: Re: I hate Compaq; Message-ID: <3b9e024a$2$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>   / In <9ncakd$n76$1@pyrite.mv.net>, on 09/08/2001  7    at 01:35 AM, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> said:e    : >"aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net> wrote in message> >news:26fm7.3701$5r.351895@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...   >....m  5 >> They may not do some of the exotic things that IBMeM >> does, but then again, they can't, they have too much volume to rely on SOIvE >> wafers.  And where as AMD may only need a couple of Copper capable3I >> deposition machines, Intel would need a lot more, so much more that iti >wouldI >> totally backlog all of the equipment manufactures if it wasn't plannede >wello >> in advance.  H >While I agree with the other sentiments you expressed, this one puzzlesH >me. My impression was that processes like copper and SOI were generallyG >used only for a few high-end products, not one's entire product line. tE >And that AMD sold at least 1/4 as many IA32 processors as Intel doesdJ >(last figures I read for that market were 21%/79%).  And that if anythingJ >AMD sold a higher percentage of IA32 processors in the upper end of *its*F >market range than Intel sells in the upper-end of *its* market range.  J >So while it's easy to believe that Intel would require *somewhat* more inH >the way of fab machines than AMD, the need for a whole lot more (as you( >suggest above) is harder to understand.  J It's easy to understand.  They have a very low yield.  At one point it wasI 1 in 5 passed testing.  Of course they keep changing the test to let moreeF chips pass.  You remember the "SX" lines don't you?  Simply full sizedI chips that didn't pass testing.  I haven't looked at the Celeron but poops is "SX" idea in a new suit.n   >- billn       -- -; -----------------------------------------------------------2 yyyc186@mindspring.com; -----------------------------------------------------------:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 06:19:00 -0600m* From: yyyc186@illegaltospam.mindspring.com Subject: Re: I hate Compaq; Message-ID: <3b9e0182$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>F  J In <26fm7.3701$5r.351895@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, on 09/08/2001 >    at 02:10 AM, "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net> said:    8 ><yyyc186@illegaltospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message6 >news:3b98c8a8$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com...I >> No, just clueless pompous ass season again.  Eject your lead booty andaM >> check out the specs of AMD's new (<1year old) plant and the specs of IBM'slL >> copper.  More importantly check out the successfull stamping percentages.F >> Intel's copper process is turning out a lot of landfill fodder. >--  H >Hmm, gee that goes totally against the general industry perception thatH >Intel tends to have both the highest yields and the some of the fastestJ >transistors in the industry.  Intel may do some stupid things, but nobodyJ >in the industry honestly believes that Intel isn't on the cutting edge ofH >process technology.  They may not do some of the exotic things that IBMG >does, but then again, they can't, they have too much volume to rely onTG >SOI wafers.  And where as AMD may only need a couple of Copper capableeG >deposition machines, Intel would need a lot more, so much more that it E >would totally backlog all of the equipment manufactures if it wasn'tc >planned well in advance.f  F >So at times Intel may not be the early adopter of something, but that. >doesn't mean they aren't pushing other areas.J >And no I won't start talking about details of various vendor fabs.  But IG >will say it pretty much comes down to IBM and Intel being in the firste
 >tier, alone.a  H Intel isn't even in the running.  Instead of "perception" look at actualJ numbers.  Their yield is ca-ca poor.  Aparently they are sniffing a lot of* the glue they are supposed to be applying.     >Aaron Spink >not speaking for Intel J >I just wrote Compaq again.  At least I don't ever have to write HP.  That >would get really confusing.     -- r; -----------------------------------------------------------g yyyc186@mindspring.com; -----------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:33:47 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-* Subject: International Securities Exchange, Message-ID: <3B9E4AF9.DB9C07B3@videotron.ca>  H It will be interesting to see how quickly the ISE comes back up. I wouldG assume/hope that they have off-site disaster recovery since it is quitedG evident now that they won't be able to re-open their World Trade Centern offices for quite some time.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:47:20 GMTe& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>. Subject: Re: International Securities Exchange> Message-ID: <I6sn7.136726$aZ.19452840@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  K I think if I had a data processing operation in the WTC, I would be wishingMG that it was a VMS Cluster with a remote cluster facility right now. (OfAE course, that thought would not be foremost in my mind at the moment).   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B9E4AF9.DB9C07B3@videotron.ca...J > It will be interesting to see how quickly the ISE comes back up. I wouldI > assume/hope that they have off-site disaster recovery since it is quite I > evident now that they won't be able to re-open their World Trade Centerr > offices for quite some time. >d   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 07:50:07 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u1 Subject: Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ???.3 Message-ID: <GSVUOmVYZSHr@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  q In article <20010910191642.78295.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:.% > Compaq changed the OpenVMS homepage- >  > www.openvms.compaq.com=20: >  > What horrible ?=20 > 4 > Are you seeing in the left, a black background and3 > blue characters ? Is it to turn people blind ?=20  >   F    You must be using the wrong browser, or the wrong browser settings.<    Looks fine to me using Netscape Gold 3.0 on my VXT 2000+.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:01:42 -0400n) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com> 1 Subject: Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ??? * Message-ID: <3B9E3566.3070300@townisp.com>  A I just got a connection refused message when I tried to go there.n       Bob Koehler wrote:  s > In article <20010910191642.78295.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:  > % >>Compaq changed the OpenVMS homepage: >> >>www.openvms.compaq.com=20a >> >>What horrible ?=20 >>4 >>Are you seeing in the left, a black background and3 >>blue characters ? Is it to turn people blind ?=20h >> >> > H >    You must be using the wrong browser, or the wrong browser settings.> >    Looks fine to me using Netscape Gold 3.0 on my VXT 2000+. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:59:14 -0000r From: sword7@speakeasy.org" Subject: MicroVAX II - Test #3 (8)/ Message-ID: <tps65ipne75j2e@corp.supernews.com>e   Hello folks:  I I am implementing IPCR (Q22 register) interrupts for test #3 (stage 8).  dE Does anyone know its vector and interrupt (within IPL 14)?  I tested dF non-existant memory exception and it went so well (Test #3 (stage 7)).  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- -, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:25:49 -0400t' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> ( Subject: Re: More VMS Wish List Items...< Message-ID: <howard-87E077.08254811092001@enews.newsguy.com>  ' In article <3B9D81E7.55F51736@fsi.net>,f3  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:t  D > Well, 1024 pagelets is only a half-megabyte of symbol table space.I > Probably eat that up pretty quick with symbols/values you'll never use,  > unless the max. can be upped.a  I No biggie.  It'd use some kind of global memory resource accessed by DCL.     A > Could be useful, but I'd have to side with Larry K. that DCL isa, > inappropriate for such a task/application.  < I'm not disagreeing.  I'm just saying that it might be done. --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:39:19 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: moving app to x,y locationi) Message-ID: <3B9DDBC7.C421C1E4@127.0.0.1>d   upadhyaya wrote: >JN > what is the command to move a decwindows application(eg, clock) to specified > x and y coordinate on VMS.  ? In the clock, if you Options... Save Options... you will find a- DECW$CLOCK.DAT in yourF default login directory. Edit it, there is a line "Clock.geometry:..."H If you move the clock it will 'remember' where it was when you saved it.  H Other applications may be controlled from the command line, try invokingG with "$ MCR disk:[dir]prog -h", or, total worst possible case, read thep documentation. YMMV. -- c( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:02:49 +0010'% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au-' Subject: Re: moving app to x,y location 5 Message-ID: <01K881A4KRF60052YM@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Nic Clews wrote:   >upadhyaya wrote:s >>F >> what is the command to move a decwindows application(eg, clock) to 	 specified  >> x and y coordinate on VMS.o >w@ >In the clock, if you Options... Save Options... you will find a >DECW$CLOCK.DAT in yourDG >default login directory. Edit it, there is a line "Clock.geometry:..."eI >If you move the clock it will 'remember' where it was when you saved it.e  L Or you can move/size/colour, etc. the window on your screen and then do the  Save Options bit.n  I >Other applications may be controlled from the command line, try invoking H >with "$ MCR disk:[dir]prog -h", or, total worst possible case, read the >documentation. YMMV.c  M I have not found documentation on the parameters in the .DAT files for these  I windows applications.  If you've used VUIT, you can often make a guess.   I Similarly the documentation for the vue$ symbols that I have found seems  F scant and incomplete.  I've only been able to work out some and their ) function by reading the system com files.    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2001 10:26:27 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)p' Subject: Re: moving app to x,y location , Message-ID: <9nkosj$73m@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  0 In article <Othn7.107$YP.5265@news.cpqcorp.net>,# upadhyaya <ups@hotvoice.com> wrote:n >Hello,dM >what is the command to move a decwindows application(eg, clock) to specifiedi >x and y coordinate on VMS.   F   You can start most decwindow's applications with a size and starting6   location with the geometry switch, e.g. the clock...  *   $ mcr decw$clock -geometry 170x90+843+31  ?   Here the size is 170x90 and the x,y upper corner is (843,31).o   -- Vance Haemmerle  Lava Men cheer med vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:11:27 GMTa- From: franco.brunetta@libero.it (F. Brunetta)o8 Subject: new free utilities again (upd 10 & 11/sep/2001(1 Message-ID: <3b9dc660.92367026@cetus.cc.uniud.it>   1 I recently updated my site with some new utility:n  D FID, a simple utility to get a file name starting from its FID (File        Identification  number)  A UAI_Utilities: two good utilities (EXE and OBJ available) to  get F                      information from SYSUAF withouth using authorize.@                      Great for getting user information into DCL  	       procedures.   All free utilities.s  C Site address:         http://www.anzwers.org/trade/franco/vmsutils/e   Thanks for visiting.   Byeb   F.B.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:59:08 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS on API's CS20 ?8 Message-ID: <qljrpts9l8ergaq3qvm53cne07ghgss1jk@4ax.com>  5 On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:39:57 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"i$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:    K >Since it is a Tsunami-based EV6 system, I would guess that it would not be-G >too difficult, heck it might just look enough like a DS20 to boot witha >minimal changes.. >>K >But unless you are proposing to ship me one (to keep), I don't know of any30 >plans for VMS support of this box at this time.  ? I see it doesn't even support Tru64 however in the specs is thes
 following:   "True 64-Bit SolutionsE The CS20 is the most powerful, most cost-effective platform available & for Linux solutions  and is the newestE member of the API NetWorks family of servers that take full advantage   of Linuxs 64-bit architecture."  B "True 64-Bit Solutions" meaning Linux. Is someone at API sending a
 message here?a  E Oh well now we know how Compaq can port Tru64. They just rename theirt< True 64-Bit Linux as Tru64. Easy-peasy. Compaq make me sick.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:35:06 -0500 (CDT)e From: sms@antinode.org$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS on API's CS20 ?) Message-ID: <01091110350631@antinode.org>r  % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eA > I see it doesn't even support Tru64 however in the specs is thec > following: > [...]n  G    Back before the latest Alpha disruption, my employer (that is, I, att9 work) was looking at porting our primary application from G Solaris/UltraSPARC to something/Alpha, and did some research on the API:E CS20.  Mr. Tom Morris of API told me that "Although Tru64 runs on thep+ CS20, it isn't officially supported today."1  H    When you're trying to sell multiple (low-profile) rack-mount systems,E the extra ($1000 or so per unit) cost of Tru64 tends to encourage thenC preference for Linux.  Our typical installation is a set of four totE eight systems.  It adds up.  (Notice that Solaris is free for any boxh$ with a CPU count of eight or fewer.)  G    Our early tests suggested that a (Compaq test drive) DS20E was aboutcG twice as fast as an Ultra 60, and we were trying to get some quotationsbH from a distributor, but then the Alpha EOL announcement was made, and we2 decided that the whole effort was probably doomed.  G    The Compaq C compiler did find a bunch of problems in our code which @ had been missed by Sun's Forte compiler, and we found the endianG sensitivity in our bit-field declarations.  Thus, the exercise wasn't asC complete waste of time, but it was a disappointment to see what was-F probably the superior platform enter the tapering helical path leading
 to the sewer.n  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)mC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)iG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)n9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:11:44 -0400P) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com>c$ Subject: OT:: Re: World Trade Center( Message-ID: <3B9E37C0.70205@townisp.com>  H WW III is a bit extreme but I wouldn't mind seeing the terrorists wiped 
 from the map.m  I Considering the magnitude of the attack, it is unlikely the true culprit  6 will claim responsibility because they fear reprisals.  F Without proof, the politicians will not authorize a counter attack so # once again the terrorists get away.v  6 This kind of thing makes me ashamed to be an American.  G Personally, I would like to see all terrorist organizations eliminated w' in the most aggressive manner possible.n         Fabio Cardoso wrote:   > My God >  > + > I think today the III World War begins...i >  >  >  >  >  > + > --- john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:  > 5 >>Just in case you guys at DECUS haven't heard yet,  u >>The two towers of the01 >>World Trade Center, and  the Pentagon have beenu >>attacked by suicideq0 >>airliners.   One tower at the trade center has >>collapsed.  Most likely,4 >>thousands are dead.  News is very sketchy, but the >>tragedy is clear.@ >>5 >>I feel  bad even asking this question, but I wonderk >>how much presence Compaq5 >>and/or HP might have in those buildings!  This is a. >>national disaster of the4 >>first magnitude and the effects will be pervasive. >> >> >> >  >  > =====e > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?M > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messengere > http://im.yahoo.coms >    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2001 15:57:46 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n6 Subject: Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?, Message-ID: <9nlc9q$1sqb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <q4NgP+Et+JPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e0  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:y |> In article <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080910310.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes:e |> >J |> > I'd like to suggest that any and all denizens of c.o.v who will be atF |> > CETS 2001 next week say "hi" to Bob Curley from the University ofF |> > Scranton.  All the sudden popularity should drive him nuts!!  :-) |>  H |> Can you give us a hint regarding what he looks like and what sessions |> he is likely to attend ?t  F Nope, afraid not.  But I figured like the conferences I used to get toD go to that the people would be wearing nametags that said where they
 were from.   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 12:27:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: Request: News and Updates from CETS 2001?3 Message-ID: <AikK3cG98GRP@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  ` In article <9nlc9q$1sqb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <q4NgP+Et+JPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>,82 >  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:{ > |> In article <Pine.LNX.4.10.10109080910310.3825-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes:d > |> >L > |> > I'd like to suggest that any and all denizens of c.o.v who will be atH > |> > CETS 2001 next week say "hi" to Bob Curley from the University ofH > |> > Scranton.  All the sudden popularity should drive him nuts!!  :-) > |>  J > |> Can you give us a hint regarding what he looks like and what sessions > |> he is likely to attend ?y > H > Nope, afraid not.  But I figured like the conferences I used to get toF > go to that the people would be wearing nametags that said where they > were from.  I Not at breakfast in the hotel where I met him and we talked about you :-)e   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2001 12:56:09 EDT! From: smithp01@mcrc16.med.nyu.edu   Subject: Re: SAMBA 2.0.3 in OVMS- Message-ID: <aTTPefqGH59f@mcrc16.med.nyu.edu>t  > I have a different problem.  I can unzip and LINK, no problem.  A However, the INSTALL operation crashes in the middle like this...d  = Creating codepage file /samba_root/lib/codepages/codepage.437tP %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=000000000000& 0012, PC=00000000000578B0, PS=0000001B/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsoN   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC    4  MAKE_SMBCODEPAGE  CVT_FILESPEC  vms_encode_filespecO                                         41518 0000000000000E00 00000000000578B0iO  MAKE_SMBCODEPAGE  STAT  vms_stat        5385 0000000000000048 0000000000081EA8hO  MAKE_SMBCODEPAGE  POSIXTIM  posix_stat  4518 00000000000015D4 000000000007D634-	 ...etc...-   This is AXP/VMS V7.3   --  L +------------ 8F EF 51 4E 4F 23 22 AF  6A 41 D6 C0 AE 31 B1 82 ------------+L |Ross Smith, Academic Computing (RCR), NYU-SoM, 550 First Ave, NY, NY 10016|L |E-Mail:  SMITHP01@MED.NYU.EDU   Phone:  (212)263-5356:  FAX: (212)263-8139|L +-------------- <http://www.med.nyu.edu/people/P.Smith.html> --------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:29:03 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>rC Subject: Re: The Register: For hire: Compaq's iPaq engineering teamt8 Message-ID: <6olrpts8pil6qve40dk3laveu2uuldr3k1@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:28:11 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o   >Jerry Leslie wrote:I >>    Compaq's iPaq PocketPC development team seems to be so unhappy withZJ >>    the upcoming merger with Hewlett-Packard, they have en masse offeredL >>    their services to the highest bidder on the online job search site The >>    Vault..."y >gG >That is funny since the iPaq is probably one of the few Compaq brandedeO >products that will survive with the same name. Perhaps the real reason is that9O >now that the ipaq has been built, the only remaining engineering to be done isS> >applying software patches to the microsoft provided software.  C I thought that the iPAQ might make it as well but recent reports onaD the *new* HP Journada seem to suggest it might actually be superior.> Also the new HP Journada uses the same Intel chip as the iPAQ.  F See the following HP press release and suddenly Compaq's iPAQ isn't so special any more...q  4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/06sep01a.htm  
 press release ( HP Unveils Powerful, New HP Jornada PDAs= First PDAs to Ship Based on Microsoft Pocket PC 2002 Software     PALO ALTO, Calif., Sept. 6, 2001  F Hewlett-Packard Company (NYSE:HWP) today announced shipment of two newB color personal digital assistants -- the first PDAs to feature theC robust Microsoft Pocket PC 2002 Premium Edition software. OfferinggD mobile professionals greater power and expandability, the HP Jornada@ 565 and 568 PDAs will be unveiled publicly for the first time at1 today's DEMOmobile conference in La Jolla, Calif.n  @ "HP envisions a world in which mobility radically transforms howC consumers and business professionals operate and manage their dailyoE lives," said Jean-Luc Meyer, worldwide marketing manager, HP EmbeddednE and Personal Systems Organization. "These new PDAs offer cutting-edgew9 technology to address the needs of mobile professionals."o  F "The HP Jornada 560 PDA series is one of the best designed yet to comeE to market," said J. Gerry Purdy, Ph.D., president and chief executiveh? officer, Mobile Insights, Inc., a market research firm based in F Mountain View, Calif. "All the desirable and leading technologies have> come together beautifully in one lightweight, thin device thatB optimizes productivity and entertainment capabilities for the mostB discriminating mobile professional. With the built-in CompactFlashC Type 1 extended slot, IT professionals are going to find it easy to5( adapt it to many enterprise situations."   Expandable and Versatile  E The HP Jornada PDAs offer mobile professionals a portable solution tocC maximize efficiency and provide the freedom to enhance productivityx; and personal creativity. Users can access critical business!F information, browse the Internet, check e-mail, communicate with otherB PDAs, PCs and printers, and capture, share and edit digital images while on the go(1)(2).  D (Note: Wireless Internet use requires separately purchased modem and> service contract. Check with service provider for coverage and: availability in your area. Not all Web content available.)  F Featuring a built-in CompactFlash Type 1 extended slot, the HP JornadaE PDAs allow users to add memory cards and optional accessories such assA wireless network solutions and the HP Pocket Camera. Unlike otherc< PDAs, HP's devices feature a removable/rechargeable 14-hour,E lithium-polymer battery and HP Safe Store, which offers an additionalt? 8 MB of FlashROM for backing up vital data and applications(3).h  F Providing increased versatility for the professional on the go, the HPE Jornada PDAs feature a vibrant, 16-bit front-lit TFT reflective color = screen for excellent indoor and outdoor viewing and an Intelt@ StrongARM 206 MHz high-performance processor for quick access to information.   Software Solutions  E Microsoft's latest Pocket PC operating system, Pocket PC 2002 Premium!F Edition, provides a robust suite of applications ideal for both mobileD professionals and enterprise customers. Applications include: PocketF Outlook, Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Pocket Internet Explorer, TerminalB Services Client, MSN Messenger, Microsoft Reader 2.0 and Microsoft& Windows Media Player 8 for Pocket PC.  F HP also has bundled an expansive suite of software solutions includingB Landware's OmniSolve, a popular business calculator, and Developer> One's CodeWallet Pro, for securely and conveniently organizing@ important personal and financial information. To further enhanceB enterprise users' efficiency, Certicom's MovianVPN supports a wideB range of popular VPN servers to enable secure remote access to the corporate Intranet(1).  ? Also included are HP Chai and HP Microchai software which allow = enterprise users to develop and run Java-based applications.-  & U.S. Availability, Pricing and Support  B The HP Jornada 565 and 568 PDAs are now shipping to retail outletsE with expected availability on Oct. 4 in North America. The HP Jornada ? 565 PDA features 32 MB RAM and has an estimated retail price ofa= $599(4). The HP Jornada 568 PDA features 64 MB RAM and has an " estimated retail price of $649(4).  F A $50 mail-in rebate is planned to be available for both products fromF Oct. 4 through the end of the year. Both PDAs are backed by a one-year limited warranty.   @ Additional information about HP Jornada PDAs and handheld PCs is' available at http://www.hp.com/jornada.c   About HP  E Hewlett-Packard Company -- a leading global provider of computing andnE imaging solutions and services -- is focused on making technology anddD its benefits accessible to all. HP had total revenue from continuingF operations of $48.8 billion in its 2000 fiscal year. Information about9 HP and its products can be found on the World Wide Web ate http://www.hp.com.  A (1) Wireless Internet use requires separately purchased modem andt> service contract. Check with service provider for coverage and9 availability in your area. Not all Web content available.y  @ (2) Photo capture requires separately purchased HP Pocket Camera
 accessory.  F (3) Estimated battery life without backlight, actual battery life will vary based on usage.   (4) Actual prices may vary.-  A Microsoft and Windows are U.S. registered trademarks of Microsoft@ Corp.q  C Intel is a U.S. registered trademark Celeron is a U.S. trademark ofe Intel Corp.o  2 Java is a U.S. trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc.  B This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve? risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other thaniA statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed1@ forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions? include the possibility that the market for the sale of certaineF products and services may not develop as expected; that development ofA these products and services may not proceed as planned; and othernB risks that are described from time to time in HP 's Securities andD Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited to the annualF report on Form 10-K for the year ended Oct. 31, 2000, and subsequentlyE filed reports. If any of these risks or uncertainties materializes oroD any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differD materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no> obligation and does not intend to update these forward-looking statements.u    A >However, I wouldn't put a lot of credence to such a news tidbit./   Maybe you might now? -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:18:56 +01001< From: "Rob Chambers" <robert.chambers@nospam.baesystems.com>$ Subject: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?& Message-ID: <3b9db76d$1@pull.gecm.com>  F Can anyone refer me to a URL or (shudder) a book on how to use the VMS5 debugger, particularly with regard to VAX Fortran 77?T  
 AtDhVaAnNkCsEs   RobI --1 "Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."k3     -- John Lehman, Secretary of US Navy, 1981-1987    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:12:19 -0000e From: sword7@speakeasy.org( Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?/ Message-ID: <tprvt3ehifrndb@corp.supernews.com>e  ; Rob Chambers <robert.chambers@nospam.baesystems.com> wrote:hH > Can anyone refer me to a URL or (shudder) a book on how to use the VMS7 > debugger, particularly with regard to VAX Fortran 77?W  E Yes, I had some expierence with VAX debugger because I used that for t@ my programming courses at Gallaudet Univ.  For more information,G enter 'help' and select which compiler and link.  I believe that /DEBUGr- can be used for compiler and link commands.     $ For example if my memory is correct:   CC/DEBUG   file.c- LINK/DEBUG file.obj- RUN/DEBUG  file.exe1   -- Tim Stark   -- 0, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:30:24 -0400i' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>s( Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?< Message-ID: <howard-FE0890.08302411092001@enews.newsguy.com>  & In article <3b9db76d$1@pull.gecm.com>,>  "Rob Chambers" <robert.chambers@nospam.baesystems.com> wrote:  H > Can anyone refer me to a URL or (shudder) a book on how to use the VMS7 > debugger, particularly with regard to VAX Fortran 77?a  M http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html#ovmsdocset and see the options n" next to "OpenVMS Debugger Manual". -- r Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 08:42:58 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org( Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?3 Message-ID: <pstLO5GqCRAI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <3b9db76d$1@pull.gecm.com>, "Rob Chambers" <robert.chambers@nospam.baesystems.com> writes:mH > Can anyone refer me to a URL or (shudder) a book on how to use the VMS7 > debugger, particularly with regard to VAX Fortran 77?u  4 Well, there's always the standard documentation set.  " http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   To get started try:o  ) $ FORTRAN yourfile /DEBUG   [/NOOPTIMIZE]- $ LINK yourfile /DEBUG $ RUN yourfile ... debugger starts ...a   DBG> SET MODE SCREEN  I   Puts your terminal into a windowing mode with source code in one panel,8=   debugger commands in another and program output in a third.8   DBG> SET MODE NOSCREEN  F   If program output is cluttering your display, you might want to exit   full screen mode.    DBG> G  C   Lets your program run normally.  The debugger will regain controlmA   if the program exits, encounters an exception or hits a defined0   breakpoint or watchpoint.   ?   If you press control-Y and then type $ DEBUG at the resultingt7   dollar sign prompt, the debugger will regain control.s  
 DBG> S [n]  #   Steps forward by one line of codet  "   Or by n lines if you feel lucky.   DBG> S /INST  3   Steps forward by one machine language instructione   DBG> E variablenamee     Examines a variablet  C   In general, in the debugger, variable names use the syntax of the D   current selected language.  And that language will be the languageE   in which the main routine is compiled.  The debugger knows the data 9   type of the variable and will display it appropriately.    DBG> DEP variablename = valuel  E   Again, the value is generally specified in the syntax of the source @   language.  You won't use deposit much, but it is nice when you
   need it.   DBG> SET BREAK routinename  ,   Sets a breakpoint at the named subroutine.  C   Caution:  Since Fortran convention uses the function name for the,F   function return value, you can't set a break point on the subroutineC   name when you're in the subroutine.  While in the subroutine, theeH   subroutine name will be interpreted as the name of the data cell where   the return value is stored.e  E   There are ways around this, but you need to learn about modules andC   scopes and ways to qualify which meaning of a symbol is intended.BD   The debugger does an adequate job of taking care of that stuff for&   you.  Don't worry about it too much.   DBG> SET BREAK %LINE n  4   Set a breakpoint on line n of the current routine.   DBG> SET WATCH variablename   D   Sets a watch point on a particular variable.  If it gets modified,=   the program will stop and the debugger will regain control.s  D   This is implemented by write-protecting the page[s] containing theB   variable in question and handling the resulting access violationB   exceptions by unprotecting the page, single stepping through theD   faulting instruction, looking for a change in the watched variableG   and then reprotecting the page.  In other words, it can be a CPU hog.>  :   Darned handy though -- "who is stepping on my variable?"   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:22:57 -0700n' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i( Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Debug instructions?+ Message-ID: <3B9E2C51.57630D56@caltech.edu>a   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:n  g > In article <3b9db76d$1@pull.gecm.com>, "Rob Chambers" <robert.chambers@nospam.baesystems.com> writes: J > > Can anyone refer me to a URL or (shudder) a book on how to use the VMS9 > > debugger, particularly with regard to VAX Fortran 77?e >o6 > Well, there's always the standard documentation set. >t$ > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ >| > To get started try:a >|+ > $ FORTRAN yourfile /DEBUG   [/NOOPTIMIZE]- > $ LINK yourfile /DEBUG > $ RUN yourfile > ... debugger starts ...  >g > DBG> SET MODE SCREEN >lK >   Puts your terminal into a windowing mode with source code in one panel, ? >   debugger commands in another and program output in a third.q >@  g If you're running on a DecTerm when you start the program the X11 version of the debugger will start upne automatically.  You still have access to all the DBG> commands but you can do most things with a pull1 down menu or button click.a  h I was quite fond of the GUI debugger, although DEC/Compaq never (last I looked) took the reasonable nextb step of letting it edit source code and rebuild the program from within the debugging environment.g That is, go to a fully integrated development environment.  The Sun "Forte" product (aka WorkShop) usesnb Nedit for this purpose.  When you launch the environment you view the code insided nedit (which my editor of choice ontg all X11 based systems) and they've added a couple of extra pull down menues so that you can control the c debugging features from within nedit, setting breakpoints, and so forth.   It's much easier to moveue around the code inside Nedit than it was in the VMS GUI debugger.  Still, even the Sun environment iseh not quite as slick as Metrowerks or one of the other fully integrated development platforms one finds ond PCs, but it's definitely an improvement  to be able to find a bug, fix the bug right then and there,, rebuild, and rerun, all within the one tool.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 04:41:15 -07009 From: martin.kevin@partner.commerzbank.com (Kevin Martin)E, Subject: Re: VaxStation 3100 Install Problem= Message-ID: <91d7e898.0109110341.53d1e7f4@posting.google.com>C  O There is a little dip switch on the backup of the vaxstation 3100 to change the : boot console from the graphic display to the console port.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 04:50:42 -07009 From: martin.kevin@partner.commerzbank.com (Kevin Martin)0, Subject: Re: VaxStation 3100 Install Problem= Message-ID: <91d7e898.0109110350.33117a44@posting.google.com>2  * http://vaxarchive.org/hw/vs3100/index.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:03:04 +0200 2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>/ Subject: Re: VMS 7.2 / CMU-IP6.6.5K FTP problem/G Message-ID: <3b9db677$0$22684$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>-  2 "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag% news:9n8ugh$7cn$1@bob.news.rcn.net...rG > I have a vaxstation 4000/90 with vms7.2 and DECW and CMU TCP/IP 6.6.5eK > loaded.  When I ftp in it downlaods files from the VAX fast, (10BaseT hub J > with one BNC and many) twisted pair ports.  However anything I upload to the L > Vax is SLOW.  Iam not an expert and on the LINUX box with hash on it seemsF > to burst out the first 10k but the rest is on the order 1k/min.  Any ideas? >> > Dave >e >c Hi!   G Have you checked out if the interface is set to "half duplex" ? If not, B throughput drops dramatically if you connect it to a hub (which by definition is hald duplex)!v   regardse   Ren Schelbaum Datakom Austria GesmbH   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:55:07 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 1 Subject: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies.t8 Message-ID: <kcqrptcqrj97nusckav7rfs2avfsbndimn@4ax.com>  D The Inquirer has a copy  of slides from DECUS/CETS. Looks like Tru64E dies as an actively developed product within two years to be replacedl* by  a "Converged Enterprise Itanium Unix".  = VMS, on the other hand. seems to have accelerated the portingnF timetable as an initial port based on VMS 7.3 is now scheduled to shipD in H1CY03 (no mention of this as an ISV only release). VMS Alpha andF VMS Itanium are scheduled to ship a new synchronized Vn (where n might> be 8?) in H!CY04. That's the sort of thing we need to see - an) aggressive schedule from VMS engineering.u  F So based on current Compaq roadmaps VMS *will* outlive Tru64. Outlived DEC, and outlived Compaq.e  C Please nobody assume  I have changed my views as I have always saidu@ that if one OS survived I expected it to be VMS. And my views onE 'roadmaps' have been made clear. Now we just need HP to avoid pullingi@ the plug and someone to market it rather than milk existing tied
 customers. -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:00:15 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>5 Subject: Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies.b@ Message-ID: <20010911120015.34690.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  0 This is the natural way of the Unix convergence.% Finally Unix is becoming "Unique".=20x5 It is obvius the migration of Tru64 and HPUX to a newa6 Unix...What are the real technical differences between2 Linux and Unix today ? Oracle can run in Linux and3 dozens of Unixes.This "Converged Enterprise Itaniumi3 Unix" will be Linux compatible ? Or may be the besth3 pieces of Tru64 and HPUX technologies - I hope fromb HPUX less patches.  1 At the end, HP will have one "Unix", which I hope 2 become a "Linux", MPE and OpenVMS.  These two last specialized operating systems.  . SRI should seriously think in a CHARON-MPE :-)  4 HP Should give a help to OpenVMS and migrate the MPE customers to OpenVMS.n   Regardsv   FC=20           * --- Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: >=205 > The Inquirer has a copy  of slides from DECUS/CETS.t > Looks like Tru642 > dies as an actively developed product within two > years to be replaced, > by  a "Converged Enterprise Itanium Unix". >=203 > VMS, on the other hand. seems to have accelerated 
 > the portingo6 > timetable as an initial port based on VMS 7.3 is now > scheduled to shipb. > in H1CY03 (no mention of this as an ISV only > release). VMS Alpha anda6 > VMS Itanium are scheduled to ship a new synchronized > Vn (where n mighti4 > be 8?) in H!CY04. That's the sort of thing we need
 > to see - ans+ > aggressive schedule from VMS engineering.l >=200 > So based on current Compaq roadmaps VMS *will* > outlive Tru64. Outlived  > DEC, and outlived Compaq.u >=204 > Please nobody assume  I have changed my views as I > have always said6 > that if one OS survived I expected it to be VMS. And
 > my views ono6 > 'roadmaps' have been made clear. Now we just need HP > to avoid pulling4 > the plug and someone to market it rather than milk > existing tiedk > customers. > -- > Alan     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dr  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:07:19 +0100,( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies.l) Message-ID: <3B9DFE77.D766A430@127.0.0.1>n   Alan Greig wrote: H > So based on current Compaq roadmaps VMS *will* outlive Tru64. Outlived > DEC, and outlived Compaq.a   Alan,t   OpenVMS is truly legacy.   Collins 2 in 1 dictionary:  4 "Legacy n. bequest; thing handed down to successor".  eE > Please nobody assume  I have changed my views as I have always saidaB > that if one OS survived I expected it to be VMS. And my views onG > 'roadmaps' have been made clear. Now we just need HP to avoid pullingHB > the plug and someone to market it rather than milk existing tied > customers.  E Your comments are very poignant. HP have hopefully observed all this,aG and with gentle, structured, intelligent and non agressive support fromo$ 'us here' that can become a reality.   -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:55:44 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>b5 Subject: Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies.r8 Message-ID: <c31sptktl23hb6fsbr2rmnt5pd1gojttoe@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:07:19 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >vF >Your comments are very poignant. HP have hopefully observed all this,H >and with gentle, structured, intelligent and non agressive support from% >'us here' that can become a reality.e  F I have no current gripe with HP and I'm prepared to give them a chanceA but not with any great expectations given past experience. As forrC Compaq though.... PC clowns. Perhaps Pfeiffer did have a vision forsC Alpha but got struck down by Rosen. Capellas seems to have kept hist= job by taking the flack for Rosen's decision to shut up shop.d -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 12:24:24 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e5 Subject: Re: VMS Itanium port speeded up. Tru64 dies.e3 Message-ID: <8Hw4jmTb+tt2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <kcqrptcqrj97nusckav7rfs2avfsbndimn@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > F > The Inquirer has a copy  of slides from DECUS/CETS. Looks like Tru64G > dies as an actively developed product within two years to be replacedm, > by  a "Converged Enterprise Itanium Unix". > ? > VMS, on the other hand. seems to have accelerated the portingcH > timetable as an initial port based on VMS 7.3 is now scheduled to shipF > in H1CY03 (no mention of this as an ISV only release). VMS Alpha and    It is an early adopters release.  N ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingtJ      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsiH      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 10:12:03 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)0> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?3 Message-ID: <DyeoHlyVuSJR@eisner.encompasserve.org>?  N In article <VA.00000438.004a6199@sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes:> > In article <3B9BC392.24B2AB5E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: >> Paul Sture wrote:V >> > I'd suggest that it is a _much_ larger deal. Not just application data files, butV >> > system files. Accounting, UAF and audit files spring immediately to mind, but whyT >> > stop there? Backup savesets, RMS internal structures, the file system itself... >> > g9 >> > Then all the system services and RTL stuff. Shudder!c >>  M >> OK, if you forget about compatibility with old little endian machines, andfI >> just care about converting your OS to run in big endian mode. Wouldn'tc3 >> compilers take care of the vast majority of it ?s >>T > Such things should be in the _implementation_ of the compiler, and I would expect Q > that strongly typed languages such as Ada would cope very well at this task. I .U > honestly don't have enough experience with C to be an impartial judge in that area   > :-)e  K The problem is not in what is obvious to the compiler, but with assumptionsxK the programmer might have made.  This is not entirely impossible in Ada but- certainly is much worse in C.-  J I asked the question at Sr. Vice President Howard Elias' keynote yesterdayJ (Anaheim DECUS) and he said they were studying alternatives.  He seemed to$ be quite prepared for that question.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:44:18 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i4 Subject: Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?)8 Message-ID: <hpmrptgso7f4ke6l8g6f98g3a4cjq9je2n@4ax.com>  D On 11 Sep 2001 00:12:04 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:    E >        Sure... why not?  I guess trying to determine truth value ofeH >        statements like:  "Is MPE being ported to IA64?" before FUDDing, >        up takes all the fun out of things. >t6 >http://www.hppro.com/pages/article.asp?ArticleID=1640  D If you read the quote below you will notice that it says "Were (sic)E bringing over a whole raft of applications under binary compatabilityuC (sic) mode." It does then say "some have been recompiled" but it is-D clear to MPE users that this is no port. It's just using the PA-RISC emulation ability of the IA64.   >iO >Jim Carlson, HPs Director of Marketing for IA-64 systems, says, "Were bringing M >over a whole raft of applications under binary compatibility mode. Some haveLN >been recompiled and developed just for the system but many will run as strictL >binaries." Carlson adds that this parallels what HP did years ago with the H >[MPE/ix-based] HP 3000, in the transition from CISC to RISC technology.  9 So some MPE apps will be emulations of an emulation. Wow!U    4 >        Ummmm.. their plan for MPE from the outset! > ? >        Finding the above information took all of 30 seconds. o  B But you actually have to read what it says not what you want it to say.   >> -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:47:14 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 4 Subject: Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?)8 Message-ID: <maurpt0cfmgre102ll7uav8ico2t8ej97q@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:44:18 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e wrote:  E >If you read the quote below you will notice that it says "Were (sic)eF >bringing over a whole raft of applications under binary compatabilityD >(sic) mode." It does then say "some have been recompiled" but it isE >clear to MPE users that this is no port. It's just using the PA-RISCm >emulation ability of the IA64.   A Sorry about picking up on the spelling. I thought that was in the D original HP document which you quoted and that would have been worthC pointing out. Rapidly typed usenet messages I consider exempt as my  own speeling proves :)   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 08:10:23 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 4 Subject: Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?)3 Message-ID: <IumzEsTgPwnX@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  ` In article <hpmrptgso7f4ke6l8g6f98g3a4cjq9je2n@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F > On 11 Sep 2001 00:12:04 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  > F >>        Sure... why not?  I guess trying to determine truth value ofI >>        statements like:  "Is MPE being ported to IA64?" before FUDDingt- >>        up takes all the fun out of things.  >>7 >>http://www.hppro.com/pages/article.asp?ArticleID=1640u > F > If you read the quote below you will notice that it says "Were (sic)G > bringing over a whole raft of applications under binary compatability E > (sic) mode." It does then say "some have been recompiled" but it iseF > clear to MPE users that this is no port. It's just using the PA-RISC  > emulation ability of the IA64. >   ? 	Sigh... you know I waste more time tracking down nuances.  The A 	port of MPE to IA64 has been underway for a number of years now.wA 	What you are seeing is a unique feature of HP systems on IA64 inaG 	that native (to PA-RISC) will run uncompiled on IA64 OSes.  Of course,tB 	because of *difficulties* or performance reasons , you recompile.  ? 	By the way, do you think for ANY OS and ANY architecture that  > 	you would be able to take OS X CD , a new target architecture@ 	ARCH Y and stick CD X in a Y machine and boot up?  Meaning:  noA 	matter how involved HP was/is with Itanium all their OSes had ton 	be >>ported<< to Itanium.  1 	Note my retort to JF.  His FUD is clearly wrong.n   >>P >>Jim Carlson, HPs Director of Marketing for IA-64 systems, says, "Were bringingN >>over a whole raft of applications under binary compatibility mode. Some haveO >>been recompiled and developed just for the system but many will run as strict M >>binaries." Carlson adds that this parallels what HP did years ago with the  I >>[MPE/ix-based] HP 3000, in the transition from CISC to RISC technology.w > ; > So some MPE apps will be emulations of an emulation. Wow!T >  	r; 	Yes.  And as part of regression testing a few VESTed earlyU 	VAX binaries run on Alpha.a   > 5 >>        Ummmm.. their plan for MPE from the outset!n >>@ >>        Finding the above information took all of 30 seconds.  > D > But you actually have to read what it says not what you want it to > say. >   # 	Or in your case, read in too much.   7 	I leave the MPE to IA64 porting effort as an exercise.    				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:03:38 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 4 Subject: Re: Weak FUD (Was: Re: The Future of VMS ?)8 Message-ID: <6t4sptk809idi134oe0lqfq6uk54fp07s6@4ax.com>  D On 11 Sep 2001 08:10:23 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:   >t >,@ >	Sigh... you know I waste more time tracking down nuances.  TheB >	port of MPE to IA64 has been underway for a number of years now.B >	What you are seeing is a unique feature of HP systems on IA64 inH >	that native (to PA-RISC) will run uncompiled on IA64 OSes.  Of course,C >	because of *difficulties* or performance reasons , you recompile.f  A Could you point me at a reference URL that says that MPE is beingeC natively ported to IA64 as opposed to just running in compatibilityeC mode? I've talked to some MPE users and they are not aware of this.eC They are aware that MPE is expected to run on the IA64 in emulationnF mode perhaps with some native tweaks but nobody seems to know anything@ about a native port. I couldn't immediately see anything to thisD effect on the HP web site either (although a news flash popped up inE one of my browser windows about a plane crashing into the world trader8 centre then we lost most of our Internet connections viaE geographically separate firewalls. Wonder if that was connected). The9D full context of the quote you gave did not even *specifically* referB to MPE if you read the whole thing and I see nothing in it that is? inconsistent with MPE running in emulation mode. Unless you are-B suggesting it is more likely that the emulated apps refer to HP-UX rather than MPE.    @ >	By the way, do you think for ANY OS and ANY architecture that ? >	you would be able to take OS X CD , a new target architecturetA >	ARCH Y and stick CD X in a Y machine and boot up?  Meaning:  no-B >	matter how involved HP was/is with Itanium all their OSes had to >	be >>ported<< to Itanium.a  C If by porting you mean fiddle with the boot code to boot on IA64 inbE emulation mode then I agree. But that's not what I call a port. If soeF I've been porting TOPS-20 to IA32 by tweaking bits of the monitor (OS)D to better handle the emulated PDP-10 (Bob Supnik) system. Never everF thought I'd get the chance to hack (in the old sense with DDT) TOPS-20D again (former admin of  DECSYSTEM-2060 KL-10B serial number  2172) .F It brought tears to my eyes to see "System restarting....wait" for the< first time in over a decade. Reminded me how much I miss it.  t >e$ >	Or in your case, read in too much.  E Yep I do and that's why I have a far, far, far better track record ofs? predicting Compaq's future actions than you. However I have notfD followed HP as closely as Compaq and I am happy if you can genuinely pleasantly surprise me.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:34:39 +01005+ From: "Pye, Graham" <Graham.Pye@compaq.com>n< Subject: RE: Where can I get a micro-Vax with vms in the UK?P Message-ID: <F5949552111A66489D2D578D92B3697201D66681@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  K <<<< I have the hobbyist license and included in the PAKs a re a bunch withcE <<<< the names ALLIN1-MAIL-*   Is that a normal ALL-IN-1 license PAK?   C The PAK ALLIN1-MAIL might be MailWorks, which was (bizarrely) namednK ALL-IN-1/Mail at one time. I say bizarrely because the two products have noHK technology (software) in common, and both development groups thought it was  a dumb idea :-)s  < Here's the list of ALL-IN-1/Office Server licence PAK names:  C 	ALLIN1, ALLIN1-NOMR, ALLIN1-CORE, ALLIN1-STARTER, ALLIN1-PERSONAL,e< 	ALLIN1-CORE-PERSONAL, ALLIN1-STARTER-PERSONAL, ALLIN1CLSVR,6 	ALLIN1CLSVR-PERSONAL, ALLIN1-USER,  ALLIN1-NOMR-USER, ALLIN1-CORE-USER,e& 	ALLIN1-STARTER-USER, ALLIN1CLSVR-USER  3 Most of these licences are really seen in the wild.M  2 Graham (ALL-IN-1 Engineering, <Some Company Name>)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:21:53 GMTa& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: World Trade Center-> Message-ID: <56pn7.134887$aZ.19327508@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  I Just in case you guys at DECUS haven't heard yet,   The two towers of the C World Trade Center, and  the Pentagon have been attacked by suicide2G airliners.   One tower at the trade center has collapsed.  Most likely, D thousands are dead.  News is very sketchy, but the tragedy is clear.  L I feel  bad even asking this question, but I wonder how much presence CompaqL and/or HP might have in those buildings!  This is a national disaster of the2 first magnitude and the effects will be pervasive.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:44:50 -0700 (PDT)o. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: World Trade Centero@ Message-ID: <20010911154450.80980.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>   My God    ) I think today the III World War begins...E            ) --- john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:e7 > Just in case you guys at DECUS haven't heard yet, =20  > The two towers of thei1 > World Trade Center, and  the Pentagon have beenp > attacked by suicide/0 > airliners.   One tower at the trade center has > collapsed.  Most likely,4 > thousands are dead.  News is very sketchy, but the > tragedy is clear.0 >=205 > I feel  bad even asking this question, but I wonder  > how much presence Compaq5 > and/or HP might have in those buildings!  This is ai > national disaster of the4 > first magnitude and the effects will be pervasive. >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil0 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=   http://im.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:01:51 +0100o& From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> Subject: Re: World Trade Center - Message-ID: <3B9E356F.F0A0576C@aerosys.co.uk>3   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > My God > + > I think today the III World War begins...o > + > --- john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:i5 > > Just in case you guys at DECUS haven't heard yet,3 > > The two towers of theD3 > > World Trade Center, and  the Pentagon have been_ > > attacked by suicide_2 > > airliners.   One tower at the trade center has > > collapsed.  Most likely,6 > > thousands are dead.  News is very sketchy, but the > > tragedy is clear.e > >,7 > > I feel  bad even asking this question, but I wonderr > > how much presence Compaq7 > > and/or HP might have in those buildings!  This is aF > > national disaster of the6 > > first magnitude and the effects will be pervasive. > >w > >o >  > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - BrazilL > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?M > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger  > http://im.yahoo.com    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2001 16:44:44 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie). Subject: Re: World Trade Centern' Message-ID: <9nlf1s$eqa$1@joe.rice.edu>   % john nixon (jnixon@cfl.rr.com) wrote:aK : Just in case you guys at DECUS haven't heard yet,   The two towers of the E : World Trade Center, and  the Pentagon have been attacked by suicide-I : airliners.   One tower at the trade center has collapsed.  Most likely, F : thousands are dead.  News is very sketchy, but the tragedy is clear. : G : I feel  bad even asking this question, but I wonder how much presence F : Compaq and/or HP might have in those buildings!  This is a national D : disaster of the first magnitude and the effects will be pervasive.  E If conventional news sites cannot be reached, this one has a summary:v     http://www.airdisaster.com/a   http://216.234.186.183/a  8 Most high-rise buildings in Houston have been evacuated.   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2001 12:26:05 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s Subject: Re: World Trade Centerw3 Message-ID: <42e7leMlgjL$@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  g In article <56pn7.134887$aZ.19327508@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes: K > Just in case you guys at DECUS haven't heard yet,   The two towers of theuE > World Trade Center, and  the Pentagon have been attacked by suicidej > airliners.  N Anyone at the DECUS Symposium who had not heard it learned when they cancelled all the sessions for Tuesday.w   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.506 ************************