1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 510       Contents: Re: Colorado t3000 - Tape Drive  Re: cpio ported to OpenVMS?  Re: DECW exit problem . Gartner: The Future of Server (incld. OpenVMS)# Government Securities Clearing Corp ' Re: Government Securities Clearing Corp ' Re: Government Securities Clearing Corp ' RE: Government Securities Clearing Corp ' RE: Government Securities Clearing Corp ' RE: Government Securities Clearing Corp 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) 3 Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) % Re: International Securities Exchange % Re: International Securities Exchange ( Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ???( Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ??? Re: Logging ftp visitors Re: Logging ftp visitors Re: Logging ftp visitors NETSCAPE 6(.1)NEXT on OpenVMS ?  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Performce of Java on OpenVMS Re: Rape me! Re: Rape me! Re: Rape me! RE: Rape me! Re: Rape me! rcp adds linefeeds? , remove  DQA0 drivers (EIDE disks) from VMS ?H Re: SMP and Cutler (Was: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise) Sporge attack (was: Rape me!) ! Submitting Batch Jobs from Apache : Re: The Register: For hire: Compaq's iPaq engineering team4 Were there any DECUS sessions yesterday (Wednesday)? Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade CenterF [OpenVMS V7.2-1] SHOW USER/SUB sometimes doesn't show all subprocessesJ Re: [OpenVMS V7.2-1] SHOW USER/SUB sometimes doesn't show all subprocesses  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 04:32:00 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>( Subject: Re: Colorado t3000 - Tape Drive@ Message-ID: <20010913113200.55231.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  # HP bought Colorado a long time ago. ' You should search in the HP site first.      Regards    FC=20 + --- A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote:  >=201 > I'm  looking for the driver (NT4) for the above - > device. Can anyone tell me where to get it?  >=20 > AB     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________- Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? ) Donate cash, emergency relief information 7 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:28:56 GMT ' From: rjh69u@usa.net (Richard Harrison) $ Subject: Re: cpio ported to OpenVMS?1 Message-ID: <3ba0dec5.710430114@news.fastnet.net>   2 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  ' >> > W H A T   I S   CPIO ?????????????  >>  : >> A common Unix utility. A very old Unix utility I think. > 9 >Seems to be compilation of (unsplit?), g(un)zip and tar.   D it's a much version of tar, the file format isn't as portable, but I* do have a vms port lying around somewhere.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:50:58 +0100 + From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com>  Subject: Re: DECW exit problem& Message-ID: <3ba09b2c$1@pull.gecm.com>   Just to answer my own post.   D Further investigation found that it only happened for one particularH user.  In that users [.DT] directory I found an ERRORLOG file.  In thereH it was complaining about some sort of protection problems with the [.DT]: sub-directories.  Deleting the [.DT] directory and all itsF sub-directories cured the problem.  When the user next logged on a new= [.DT] directory structure was created and all seems okay now.    HTH D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Group  Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.   6 "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message  news:3b9f7503$1@pull.gecm.com... > AlphaServer DS20E, 512MBE >    (OpenVMS 7.3 + all patches, DECW 1.2-6 + DECW EURO patch, TCP/IP  > Services 5.1 + latest patch) > D > On the server (graphic) console, logins are fine but when I select EXITC > to end the session the desktop starts to run down but the DECterm E > windows remain.  I can enter logoff commands to manually close them  but D > the DECW login screen does not reappear.  Any ideas where to look? >  > TIA F > ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------F > Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com > Air Systems Group  > Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>7 Subject: Gartner: The Future of Server (incld. OpenVMS) @ Message-ID: <20010913173630.54883.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  
 Just Click    I http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?id=3D324128&acsFlg=3DaccessBought      Regards    F=E1bio Cardoso    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________- Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? ) Donate cash, emergency relief information 7 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:46:10 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>, Subject: Government Securities Clearing CorpF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130838001.1163-100000@athena.csdco.com>  B The only trading today on Wall Street is in government securities.  > Is the back office for this the GSSC listed on the VMS success
 stories page?   I The WTC disaster is an excellent opportunity for VMS, a time where Compaq I can demonstrate a helpful and stable solution to people who are seriously  worried about DT issues.  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:42:13 -0400 + From: "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com> 0 Subject: Re: Government Securities Clearing Corp+ Message-ID: <9nqk53$lj5$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   / "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in message @ news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130838001.1163-100000@athena.csdco.com... > D > The only trading today on Wall Street is in government securities. > @ > Is the back office for this the GSSC listed on the VMS success > stories page?  > K > The WTC disaster is an excellent opportunity for VMS, a time where Compaq K > can demonstrate a helpful and stable solution to people who are seriously  > worried about DT issues.  L If Compaq have any taste, they won't talk about these successes for at least a year.  --
 John Saunders  jws@ma.ultranet.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:44:53 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>0 Subject: Re: Government Securities Clearing CorpF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130943490.4729-100000@athena.csdco.com>  F Suggest you read today's WSJ.  Would you rather people be lead into an, inferior solution out of fear and ignorance?  
 John Nebel    ) On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, John Saunders wrote:   1 > "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in message B > news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130838001.1163-100000@athena.csdco.com... > > F > > The only trading today on Wall Street is in government securities. > > B > > Is the back office for this the GSSC listed on the VMS success > > stories page?  > > M > > The WTC disaster is an excellent opportunity for VMS, a time where Compaq M > > can demonstrate a helpful and stable solution to people who are seriously  > > worried about DT issues. > N > If Compaq have any taste, they won't talk about these successes for at least	 > a year.  > -- > John Saunders  > jws@ma.ultranet.com  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:50:11 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 0 Subject: RE: Government Securities Clearing Corp9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEKNDEAA.tom@kednos.com>    which page?    > -----Original Message-----+ > From: John Nebel [mailto:nebel@csdco.com] , > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:45 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: Re: Government Securities Clearing Corp >  >  > H > Suggest you read today's WSJ.  Would you rather people be lead into an. > inferior solution out of fear and ignorance? >  > John Nebel >  > + > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, John Saunders wrote:  > 3 > > "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in message D > > news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130838001.1163-100000@athena.csdco.com... > > > H > > > The only trading today on Wall Street is in government securities. > > > D > > > Is the back office for this the GSSC listed on the VMS success > > > stories page?  > > > C > > > The WTC disaster is an excellent opportunity for VMS, a time   > where CompaqB > > > can demonstrate a helpful and stable solution to people who  > are seriously  > > > worried about DT issues. > > D > > If Compaq have any taste, they won't talk about these successes  > for at least > > a year.  > > -- > > John Saunders  > > jws@ma.ultranet.com  > >  > >  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:04:32 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>0 Subject: RE: Government Securities Clearing CorpF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130959030.4729-100000@athena.csdco.com>   Tom,  J I haven't got to the hard copy WSJ which is delivered across town.  LookedG at the on-line version.  Just search on "comdisco" if you have an ID on  www.wsj.com.   John Nebel      & On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Tom Linden wrote:  
 > which page?  >  > > -----Original Message------ > > From: John Nebel [mailto:nebel@csdco.com] . > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:45 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 > > Subject: Re: Government Securities Clearing Corp > >  > >  > > J > > Suggest you read today's WSJ.  Would you rather people be lead into an0 > > inferior solution out of fear and ignorance? > >  > > John Nebel > >  > > - > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, John Saunders wrote:  > > 5 > > > "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in message F > > > news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130838001.1163-100000@athena.csdco.com... > > > > J > > > > The only trading today on Wall Street is in government securities. > > > > F > > > > Is the back office for this the GSSC listed on the VMS success > > > > stories page?  > > > > E > > > > The WTC disaster is an excellent opportunity for VMS, a time   > > where CompaqD > > > > can demonstrate a helpful and stable solution to people who  > > are seriously   > > > > worried about DT issues. > > > F > > > If Compaq have any taste, they won't talk about these successes  > > for at least
 > > > a year.  > > > -- > > > John Saunders  > > > jws@ma.ultranet.com  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:21:58 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>0 Subject: RE: Government Securities Clearing CorpF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109131117120.7423-100000@athena.csdco.com>   9/13/2001 WSJ (Thursday)  H Page B5: "Companies Test System-Backup Plans As They Struggle to Recover
 Lost Data"  & On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Tom Linden wrote:  
 > which page?  >  > > -----Original Message------ > > From: John Nebel [mailto:nebel@csdco.com] . > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:45 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 > > Subject: Re: Government Securities Clearing Corp > >  > >  > > J > > Suggest you read today's WSJ.  Would you rather people be lead into an0 > > inferior solution out of fear and ignorance? > >  > > John Nebel > >  > > - > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, John Saunders wrote:  > > 5 > > > "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in message F > > > news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0109130838001.1163-100000@athena.csdco.com... > > > > J > > > > The only trading today on Wall Street is in government securities. > > > > F > > > > Is the back office for this the GSSC listed on the VMS success > > > > stories page?  > > > > E > > > > The WTC disaster is an excellent opportunity for VMS, a time   > > where CompaqD > > > > can demonstrate a helpful and stable solution to people who  > > are seriously   > > > > worried about DT issues. > > > F > > > If Compaq have any taste, they won't talk about these successes  > > for at least
 > > > a year.  > > > -- > > > John Saunders  > > > jws@ma.ultranet.com  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:49:29 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> < Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)8 Message-ID: <f8q0qtgam7158k06g807vuo7g69eardfhb@4ax.com>  . On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:11:10 GMT, "Duane Sand"" <duane.sand@mindspring.com> wrote:     > 2 >aspect of it to analysts at that January meeting. > > >I think they expected back then to be announcing a broad deal< >with Intel within a month or two.  This was 5 months before= >Fiorina and Capellas began discussions of adding a rebranded ; >HP-UX IPF machine to Compaq's server product portfolio for < >more complete coverage in the commercial datacenter market.  = But was Carly involved in the background even then? The first @ suggestion of HP buying Compaq came back around the same time inF speculation by analyst Andrew Neff (hope I got the name right) and wasD posted to this newsgroup. Did he just independently come up with theB idea or was it being floated to see what sort of response it got.?? Don't know anything about Andrew Neff but I'd like to know what + contact if any he had with HP/Intel/Compaq.   ? To really get to the bottom of this I suspect we'd have to have A pointed parabolic microphones  at some executive golf sessions or  similar sometime last year,   B At least it is now clear why Compaq took the replay of the webcastF offline for 48 hours and put it back in an edited format after reportsE were carried here. Still, even in the edited version, I believe there  is enough evidence.    > = >The Intel deal took many more months to finalize than Compaq @ >initially expected.  At Intel lawyers' insistence, they decided= >to go stealthy until the deal was fully detailed and signed. D >Luckily, they were able to stuff most of the cat back into the bag.@ >None of the analysts understood the import of Winkler's January< >NSK-->IPF statement.  You (Alan) understood it and reported  E Of course not. They are just highly recompensed crooks living off the D bent financial and commercial systems of the planet. As long as theyB can afford the coke/booze/women/yachts etc what do they care? OK IC exaggerate but by how much? I once refused to continue working as a C technical sales consultant for a particular company where the sales C director would snort a line of coke immediately before bullshitting0A customers about our future intents. That's business he would say.pF Maybe I'm just stupid and should give in and just line my own pockets.' Or , in this case, pocket my own lines.o  = >it on comp.os.vms, but this merely added a little fuel to ana6 >already noisy discussion of VMS futures. Folks in NSK< >development missed that statement entirely. It appears that6 >Shannon did not catch on or believe the implications.  F Terry's public pronouncements do not always entirely match his privateE views.  I feel I can point this out now as perhaps had he voiced them D in SKC rather than repeat the Compaq lies customers could have actedE in time to save things. I had email exchanges with Terry at the time.iA As recently as the London VMS technical days in May Terry told metF privately that he believed that Alpha would not survive and he said inF SKC "perhaps the light at the end of the (Alpha) tunnel is an oncomingE train." However he played this down for presumably commercial reasonst& and I think he crossed the line there.  ; >It appears that no large Alpha customers took notice then.   C As people told me at the time: "Why should we listed to people likenE you when the great Terry Shannon says otherwise". Terry betrayed them F but I think he may have felt that attempting to save Alpha would looseD VMS in the process out of Compaq spite so I can't entirely fault him if that was a motive.o  > >The timeline is inconsistent with Fiorina forcing a reluctant7 >Compaq to jump off the Digital Alpha boat.  Compaq wasd  F The announced timeliness... but it beggars belief that Carly and CurlyD didn't at least discuss the Andrew Neff suggestion that HP would buyF Compaq also made about the same time  - given how close Curly tells usE he was to Carly at the time. Even if it was only to laugh at it which  I doubt.  > >already eagerly jumping.  At most, Fiorina didn't try to push7 >Compaq back onto an Alpha-forever plan, and did invite 8 >a now ring-free Compaq to sit with HP at the big end of >the stately IPF boat. >r6 >Winkler's gaffe in pre-announcing the NSK redirection< >could now be a good thing, serving as public proof that the8 >eventual demise of Alpha was already certain before the: >HP dalliance began, even if we all didn't believe it yet. >s+ > ---  Duane Sand, not speaking for Compaq.w >  >  >p >e >o >p >( >s >r >) >p >e >t   -- Alan   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 09:51:00 GMTe From: jmfbahciv@aol.comn< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nq9f0$5oe$1@bob.news.rcn.net>r  , In article <3B9FB85C.B0647513@mediaone.net>,-    Bob Willard <bobwbsgs@mediaone.net> wrote:n >Bill Todd wrote:e >>  ( >> <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message % news:9nneua$gf4$2@bob.news.rcn.net...-= >> > In article <3ftrptcknbs4imrdjlds860a8s5tr454f7@4ax.com>,-. >> >    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:> >> > >On Tue, 11 Sep 01 08:02:33 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > >>iK >> > >>You are assuming that the writers (VMS) are still around.  Are they?u >> > >? >> > >Well obviously the oft mentioned Dave Cutler isn't there.  >> >D >> > I'll say this one more time.  Cutler wasn't a writer; he wasn't2 >> > a programmer; he was a manager that couldn't. >> i( >> One out of three isn't all that good. >>  I >> Cutler wasn't a tech writer, of course, but he did write a significantDI >> portion of the VMS V1 kernel code and was a pivotal force in managing t thatI >> release's successful creation (even though his management style could D take a >> toll on others).D >> D	 >> - billD >=C >Dave also personally wrote a lot of the SMP code for VMS, from hise >office in ZSO;    How do you know this?   2 > ..after Dick had said that VMS was ASMP forever.  ; Dick declared that right after he had his meetings with JMF- and TW who did do TOPS-10 SMP.  G >I contend that the SMPization of VMS is the work of a real programmer.c  @ I doubt it was Cutler who did the work; the timing is all wrong.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.m   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 09:54:04 GMTA From: jmfbahciv@aol.come< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nq9ko$5oe$2@bob.news.rcn.net>   4 In article <9no3r3$8t5h0$1@ID-69429.news.dfncis.de>,0    "Martin Nisshagen" <martin_xp@msn.com> wrote: >-K ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:9nneua$gf4$2@bob.news.rcn.net...m >cB >: I'll say this one more time.  Cutler wasn't a writer; he wasn't0 >: a programmer; he was a manager that couldn't. >m1 >Regardless how many times you repeat things for  ! >yourself it's quite obvious thats> >someone at AOL hasn't the slightest clue what he talks about.  9 It's she.  I also tangled with Cutler in 1971, 1972 and Il= was known as the TOPS-10 Den Mother.  The JMF in my user nameoA stands for James M. Flemming, a.k.a. JMF in the TOPS-10 listings.e: In the beginning of my DEC days, I had a lot of "exposure"< to Cutler.  Maybe you should reexamine your prejudices based on ISP sources.-   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 10:00:10 GMTo From: jmfbahciv@aol.comJ< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nqa05$5oe$3@bob.news.rcn.net>2  ( In article <9no2c4$37v$1@pyrite.mv.net>,+    "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:1 >lK ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:9nneua$gf4$2@bob.news.rcn.net... ; >> In article <3ftrptcknbs4imrdjlds860a8s5tr454f7@4ax.com>,n, >>    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:< >> >On Tue, 11 Sep 01 08:02:33 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> >>oI >> >>You are assuming that the writers (VMS) are still around.  Are they?- >> >= >> >Well obviously the oft mentioned Dave Cutler isn't there.  >>B >> I'll say this one more time.  Cutler wasn't a writer; he wasn't0 >> a programmer; he was a manager that couldn't. >-& >One out of three isn't all that good. > G >Cutler wasn't a tech writer, of course, but he did write a significant># >portion of the VMS V1 kernel code v  = Rumor has it that -11M was the core.  He may have done a good28 piece of that code before I started working there, 1971.  - > ...and was a pivotal force in managing thatB >release's successful creation a  5 This may be true.  But that would have been the firstD$ version and not subsequent versions.  C > ..(even though his management style could take a toll on others).    <grin>  I've dealt with him.     /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.=   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 08:06:38 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)3 Message-ID: <w8eiTQAywyl0@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  c In article <lqjI7JyV9DIh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:o > + > Have you tried VESTing the VAX compiler ?e >   H    No.  The Ada compiler environment (ACS libraries et. al.) is complex =    enough that I wasn't sure I could set up a copy of the VAXoF    environment successfully on an Alpha in a reasonable time.  I don'tG    know what the licensing issues are.  And when I started working withuE    Ada the only Alpha I had had an Ada compiler installed on it who'se(    environment I couldn't risk breaking.     B    Maybe I'll try it on one of my other Alphas and hope the result&    doesn't freak out Compaq's lawyers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:15:03 -0400i* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)) Message-ID: <3BA0B157.9000904@compaq.com>1   Bob Koehler wrote:J >    There's no rule that a Macro-32 compiler has to represent VAX R0 in aG >    CPU register, and there's plenty of registers on IA-64 to do it inc' >    anyhow, just don't use IA-64's R0.a >  > I Well, I wouldn't say plenty.  We could pick R31 or R26 with little or no  B impact on existing code.  This morning I'm leaning to mapping the I VAX/Alpha R8 onto R26 and mapping the VAX/Alpha R0 onto R8.  I might use uI the real R31 for the VAX/Alpha R1.  The VAX/Alpha R26 maps onto BR0.  We  E just have to make sure that the BLISS/C compilers do the mapping for  G user-defined linkages.  However, we've all been distracted in the last i	 few days.n     -- e John Reagann' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadern   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:57:44 -0500e+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> < Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)H Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130819090.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>  , On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  * > In article <9no2c4$37v$1@pyrite.mv.net>,- >    "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  > > M > ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:9nneua$gf4$2@bob.news.rcn.net...e= > >> In article <3ftrptcknbs4imrdjlds860a8s5tr454f7@4ax.com>,V. > >>    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:> > >> >On Tue, 11 Sep 01 08:02:33 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> >> K > >> >>You are assuming that the writers (VMS) are still around.  Are they?a > >> >? > >> >Well obviously the oft mentioned Dave Cutler isn't there.  > >>D > >> I'll say this one more time.  Cutler wasn't a writer; he wasn't2 > >> a programmer; he was a manager that couldn't. > >G( > >One out of three isn't all that good. > > I > >Cutler wasn't a tech writer, of course, but he did write a significanti% > >portion of the VMS V1 kernel code [ > ? > Rumor has it that -11M was the core.  He may have done a goodM: > piece of that code before I started working there, 1971.  C Cutler had written RSX-11A and brought it with him from DuPont.  HeuJ approved by hand every line of privileged code in 11M.  That was after '73F because that's when our family moved to MA.  11M was probably a littleI later, because Dad was somewhere else in DEC for a little while before hesF moved in the Mill to Central Engineering.  (Life Sciences Marketing, IF think -- very different than what Marketing is known for today -- theyF spent more time explaining to engineering how they needed this or that7 kind of I/O for A/D because of customer needs, etc...).r  F My Dad wrote the error logging database subsystem for -11M, and had toI negotiate with Cutler to justify the use of 2 _bits_ in a database.  I've C talked with him about Cutler and VMS quite a bit, but doubt he'd behG willing to spend much time on usenet to talk about it himself.  Dad was-D also on the VAX "B" design team, but I don't know as much about thatF (except that they had two "opposing" redundant design teams -- A wouldB come up with a plan and submit it to B, who would tear it apart.  H Anything that was finally left standing got in.) But, he was always veryG proud that the error logging was one of the big pieces of 11M that wentW% over to VMS.  (Relatively untouched.)k  A Cutler most certainly was a programmer.  At one time, it was very C difficult to code faster or smaller or more robustly than he could.n  J Little stories like his Red Rubber Stamp for the -11M project (designed toH be -11D in less memory) that said "Size *IS* Important" which was likelyH to be put on code that he could write smaller before returning it to theI author indicate that some did consider his management "style" abrasive.  W& But the VMS kernel was his brainchild.  J I'm not a fanatic Cutler-worshipper (or hater), but this belittling of hisH role is a puzzler, and is easy to prove wrong, if you talk to the peopleJ who were actually there, and if you keep engineering history separate fromG the history of Orifice Politics.  God only know what happened to any oftB the documents from the project -- they may be in VMS Engineering's= equivalent of the storage room at the end of "Indiana Jones".   / > > ...and was a pivotal force in managing thati! > >release's successful creation f > 7 > This may be true.  But that would have been the first & > version and not subsequent versions.  H You'd probably know better than I.  This doesn't explain much about whatH he did at DEC between '76 and '88 or '89 when he left.  I sense a lot of personal opinion in this.   E > > ..(even though his management style could take a toll on others).  >   > <grin>  I've dealt with him.    I He's an alpha-male who's usually quick to get several correct answers andNF decide which one he likes -- that's my spin.  Hrm... do people dislikeH that because it makes him too different from them, or too much the same? ;)   --  < I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,7 but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:09:24 -0500-+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu>c< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)H Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130901290.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>  , On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  ; > It's she.  I also tangled with Cutler in 1971, 1972 and Is? > was known as the TOPS-10 Den Mother.  The JMF in my user name C > stands for James M. Flemming, a.k.a. JMF in the TOPS-10 listings. < > In the beginning of my DEC days, I had a lot of "exposure"> > to Cutler.  Maybe you should reexamine your prejudices based > on ISP sources.a  ? Ah, I wish I'd read this before I replied to a later msg in the J thread.  I don't want to start and pissing contests, but Cutler and VMS as@ seen through the eyes of a 36-bit devotee are going to be, in anH historian's point of view, a less than desirable primary source.  You've seen the enemy, and it is him!   -- l< I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,7 but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:18:02 -0500n+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> < Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)H Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130910190.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>  , On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  . > In article <3B9FB85C.B0647513@mediaone.net>,/ >    Bob Willard <bobwbsgs@mediaone.net> wrote:2 > >2E > >Dave also personally wrote a lot of the SMP code for VMS, from his  > >office in ZSO;  >  > How do you know this?t > 4 > > ..after Dick had said that VMS was ASMP forever. > = > Dick declared that right after he had his meetings with JMFh  > and TW who did do TOPS-10 SMP.  F Cutler was known for doing end runs around management.  When MarketingF tried to justify the price differential between RSX-11D and RSX-11M byE saying that the smaller -11M wouldn't access the entire memory of the I bigger pdp-11's, Cutler issued his own press release, both internally andnI externally, and said "They're lying to you -- 11M will do everything -11Do	 will do."s  I > >I contend that the SMPization of VMS is the work of a real programmer.f > B > I doubt it was Cutler who did the work; the timing is all wrong.  I Does that change if you consider that if he was convinced that it was theoI *RIGHT* thing to do (for VMS) he'd go do it himself anyway?  _That_ would J be vintage Cutler.  But I'm less clear on the dates of all this, so merely pose it as a devil's advocate.   -- n< I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,7 but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.r   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 11:54:44 GMTr From: jmfbahciv@aol.com < Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nqgmv$1hl$3@bob.news.rcn.net>s  H In article <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130901290.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>,/    Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote: - >On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:e >a< >> It's she.  I also tangled with Cutler in 1971, 1972 and I@ >> was known as the TOPS-10 Den Mother.  The JMF in my user nameD >> stands for James M. Flemming, a.k.a. JMF in the TOPS-10 listings.= >> In the beginning of my DEC days, I had a lot of "exposure"f? >> to Cutler.  Maybe you should reexamine your prejudices basedg >> on ISP sources. > @ >Ah, I wish I'd read this before I replied to a later msg in theK >thread.  I don't want to start and pissing contests, but Cutler and VMS asc< >seen through the eyes of a 36-bit devotee are going to be,   9 I wasn't a 36-bit devotee.  At the time I started workingu at DEC, I used all systems.s  
 > ...in anI >historian's point of view, a less than desirable primary source.  You'veu >seen the enemy, and it is him!   J The name Cutler never came up in our OS wars with VMS.  Now do you want toC piss on it again?  I'm very careful about stating what I know, whath was rumor, and what I conject.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.i   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 12:07:19 GMTa From: jmfbahciv@aol.comn< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nqheh$1hl$6@bob.news.rcn.net>h  H In article <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130901290.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>,/    Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote:d- >On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:K >p< >> It's she.  I also tangled with Cutler in 1971, 1972 and I@ >> was known as the TOPS-10 Den Mother.  The JMF in my user nameD >> stands for James M. Flemming, a.k.a. JMF in the TOPS-10 listings.= >> In the beginning of my DEC days, I had a lot of "exposure" ? >> to Cutler.  Maybe you should reexamine your prejudices basedg >> on ISP sources. > @ >Ah, I wish I'd read this before I replied to a later msg in theK >thread.  I don't want to start and pissing contests, but Cutler and VMS ase< >seen through the eyes of a 36-bit devotee are going to be,   ; I was not a devotee.  And I also happened to own DEC stock.m   <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.n   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 12:02:37 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.comr< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nqh5o$1hl$4@bob.news.rcn.net>s  H In article <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130819090.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>,/    Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote:r- >On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:p >f  * >Cutler most certainly was a programmer.    " That's right; he was a programmer.   > ..At one time, it was veryD >difficult to code faster or smaller or more robustly than he could. >oK >Little stories like his Red Rubber Stamp for the -11M project (designed toeI >be -11D in less memory) that said "Size *IS* Important" which was likelyiI >to be put on code that he could write smaller before returning it to theoJ >author indicate that some did consider his management "style" abrasive.  ' >But the VMS kernel was his brainchild.  >mK >I'm not a fanatic Cutler-worshipper (or hater), but this belittling of hisrI >role is a puzzler, and is easy to prove wrong, if you talk to the peopleB >who were actually there,   ; How do you think I know about what he did in the early 70s?     5 > ..and if you keep engineering history separate from$# >the history of Orifice Politics.  r  * Dammit.  I'm not talking about politics.    ) > ..God only know what happened to any oftC >the documents from the project -- they may be in VMS Engineering'st> >equivalent of the storage room at the end of "Indiana Jones".  = Probably.  One of the worst things that happened was ditchingvC the Document Retrieval System.  I haven't been able to find anybodya( who knows what happened to that archive.   >h0 >> > ...and was a pivotal force in managing that" >> >release's successful creation  >> '8 >> This may be true.  But that would have been the first' >> version and not subsequent versions.  >pI >You'd probably know better than I.  This doesn't explain much about whattI >he did at DEC between '76 and '88 or '89 when he left.  I sense a lot ofD >personal opinion in this.  ; I haven't given my personal opinion nor have I described myt personal dealings with him.e   >fF >> > ..(even though his management style could take a toll on others). >> s! >> <grin>  I've dealt with him.  t >gJ >He's an alpha-male who's usually quick to get several correct answers andG >decide which one he likes -- that's my spin.  Hrm... do people dislike I >that because it makes him too different from them, or too much the same?  >;)a >aB In his case, he dropped bits.  I had no problems with alpha males;< I've had heated discussions with them but no anal retentive . problems.  Cutler had other kinds of problems.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.n   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 12:05:37 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.comm< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nqhbb$1hl$5@bob.news.rcn.net>l  ) In article <3BA0B157.9000904@compaq.com>,i.    John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> wrote: >Bob Koehler wrote: K >>    There's no rule that a Macro-32 compiler has to represent VAX R0 in aoH >>    CPU register, and there's plenty of registers on IA-64 to do it in( >>    anyhow, just don't use IA-64's R0. >> , >>  J >Well, I wouldn't say plenty.  We could pick R31 or R26 with little or no C >impact on existing code.  This morning I'm leaning to mapping the eJ >VAX/Alpha R8 onto R26 and mapping the VAX/Alpha R0 onto R8.  I might use J >the real R31 for the VAX/Alpha R1.  The VAX/Alpha R26 maps onto BR0.  We F >just have to make sure that the BLISS/C compilers do the mapping for  >user-defined linkages.1  ? How do you verify that?  I'm not asking for detail...perhaps anr8 overview.  You can't possibly do it by hand or a filcom.  6 > ...  However, we've all been distracted in the last 
 >few days.   Good understatement.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.g   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 12:13:34 GMTr From: jmfbahciv@aol.como< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)+ Message-ID: <9nqhq8$1hl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>r  H In article <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109130910190.16972-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>,/    Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote:y- >On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:> >>/ >> In article <3B9FB85C.B0647513@mediaone.net>,i0 >>    Bob Willard <bobwbsgs@mediaone.net> wrote: >> >F >> >Dave also personally wrote a lot of the SMP code for VMS, from his >> >office in ZSO; u >> b >> How do you know this? >>  5 >> > ..after Dick had said that VMS was ASMP forever.a >> M> >> Dick declared that right after he had his meetings with JMF! >> and TW who did do TOPS-10 SMP.  > 8 >Cutler was known for doing end runs around management.    And his programmers.   > .. When MarketingtG >tried to justify the price differential between RSX-11D and RSX-11M by F >saying that the smaller -11M wouldn't access the entire memory of theJ >bigger pdp-11's, Cutler issued his own press release, both internally andJ >externally, and said "They're lying to you -- 11M will do everything -11D
 >will do."  A Wasn't that D was for disk?  I had the differences written a longp= time ago.  I probably gave those cheat sheets to my successore
 in the group.g   > J >> >I contend that the SMPization of VMS is the work of a real programmer. >> KC >> I doubt it was Cutler who did the work; the timing is all wrong.  > J >Does that change if you consider that if he was convinced that it was theJ >*RIGHT* thing to do (for VMS) he'd go do it himself anyway?  _That_ wouldB >be vintage Cutler.  But I'm less clear on the dates of all this,   ? And that's very important about who did what.  Just because one @ guy is manager of group does not imply that he did the work.  It8 does mean that he managed the production of the project.   > ...so merely >pose it as a devil's advocate.h   Sigh!    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.-   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 18:50:56 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e< Subject: Re: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)H Message-ID: <y47kv3xcen.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  - Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> writes:,  J > You'd probably know better than I.  This doesn't explain much about what9 > he did at DEC between '76 and '88 or '89 when he left. e   - VAXELN - PRISM6   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:44:01 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>. Subject: Re: International Securities Exchange* Message-ID: <3BA08DF1.193ED192@uk.sun.com>   emanuel stiebler wrote:o >  > Tom Linden wrote:/ > >p, > > I think Deutsche Bank owned the building > > J > AFAIRC, they tried to buy it. But they were not allowed to put a DB logo > on it, > so they gave up ;-)O  4 The WTC building is/was owned by the Port Authority.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2001 14:18:22 GMT From: bk4leg@aol.com (BK4Leg)D. Subject: Re: International Securities Exchange9 Message-ID: <20010913101822.13713.00000023@mb-ck.aol.com>t   rdeininger observed,7 >>"I think many brokerage firms were located in WTC."<<m  L Yes, including Cantor Fitzgerald which is a VMS shop.  I don't know if their data center was at WTC.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:00:39 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ???:) Message-ID: <3BA083C7.69F7DC3B@127.0.0.1>a   Warren Sander wrote: >  >[...]S > As for the 'blue' links rather than the white/black links that's a local functioniO > of the browser. If I override them in the <body> tag then somethings brake in O > the style sheets. I'm still looking at that but I really don't want to recodeh > 15,000 pages again..   Warren,C  A I maintain nearly 300 HTML pages, and my block and bulk edits areiH performed using the TECO SEARCH macro using the search/replace function,F plus writing my own tools in DCL. Many other tasks are automated usingD DCL including selective updates, live and copy verification and linkD validation. I'd be happy to discuss my techniques for maintaining my hobby site with you offline.   -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:46:02 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")1 Subject: Re: Is www.openvms.compaq.com   down ???f8 Message-ID: <00A01FC9.BF1C0AF9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  T In article <3BA083C7.69F7DC3B@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >Warren Sander wrote:r >> g >>[...]bT >> As for the 'blue' links rather than the white/black links that's a local functionP >> of the browser. If I override them in the <body> tag then somethings brake inP >> the style sheets. I'm still looking at that but I really don't want to recode >> 15,000 pages again. >e >Warren, >tB >I maintain nearly 300 HTML pages, and my block and bulk edits areI >performed using the TECO SEARCH macro using the search/replace function,BG >plus writing my own tools in DCL. Many other tasks are automated using E >DCL including selective updates, live and copy verification and linkhE >validation. I'd be happy to discuss my techniques for maintaining my  >hobby site with you offline.r  J Actually, that would be on-topic for this group, and I'd be interested to I hear about it.  (Link validation using DCL?  Have you figured out how to r get a useful status from lynx?)e   -- Alans    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056hM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:54:56 +0200g2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>! Subject: Re: Logging ftp visitorsoG Message-ID: <3ba05789$0$21924$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>g  4 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEJODEAA.tom@kednos.com...i= > Under 7.3 with tcpip5.1 is there a way to log anonymous ftp $ > logins by say, recording their IP?  ? There is a logical "SYS$REM_ID" which is "FTP_" followed by the , hex-representation of the source IP address.D You can use it in the login.com of this account (eg write it to some logfile)   Regardso   Ren Schelbaum   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:33:15 +0000 (UTC)g' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)l! Subject: Re: Logging ftp visitors + Message-ID: <9nq21b$n1n$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  | In article <3ba05789$0$21924$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>, "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes: >)5 >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> schrieb im NewsbeitragI4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEJODEAA.tom@kednos.com...> >> Under 7.3 with tcpip5.1 is there a way to log anonymous ftp% >> logins by say, recording their IP?h >M@ >There is a logical "SYS$REM_ID" which is "FTP_" followed by the- >hex-representation of the source IP address..E >You can use it in the login.com of this account (eg write it to somep	 >logfile)h >@ >Regards >: >Ren SchelbaumI >s >a  E The file sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_anonymous.log records thet information you need :-n   eg    > Alpha1:tail   sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_anonymous.log? 13-SEP-2001 04:26:56.77 User:anonymous ident:a@a.com logged out C 13-SEP-2001 04:49:48.33 User:anonymous logged in ident:a@a.com fromP Host:158.108.35.237iH 13-SEP-2001 04:49:50.10 User:anonymous ident:a@a.com status:000184C4 CWD dir:PUB:[ANONYMOUS].;i? 13-SEP-2001 04:49:52.76 User:anonymous ident:a@a.com logged out-C 13-SEP-2001 05:18:03.17 User:anonymous logged in ident:a@a.com from  Host:158.108.35.237y      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 09:24:46 -07001 From: bill.hall@nav-international.com (bill Hall)-! Subject: Re: Logging ftp visitorse= Message-ID: <f04a8177.0109130824.78a67efa@posting.google.com>e  Z david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) wrote in message news:<9nq21b$n1n$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...~ > In article <3ba05789$0$21924$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>, "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes: > >i7 > >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrage6 > >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEJODEAA.tom@kednos.com...@ > >> Under 7.3 with tcpip5.1 is there a way to log anonymous ftp' > >> logins by say, recording their IP?h > >SB > >There is a logical "SYS$REM_ID" which is "FTP_" followed by the/ > >hex-representation of the source IP address.MG > >You can use it in the login.com of this account (eg write it to somei > >logfile)j > >y
 > >Regards > >e > >Ren Schelbaum1 > >  > >1 > G > The file sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_anonymous.log records the  > information you need :-u >  > eg >  > @ > Alpha1:tail   sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_anonymous.logA > 13-SEP-2001 04:26:56.77 User:anonymous ident:a@a.com logged outtE > 13-SEP-2001 04:49:48.33 User:anonymous logged in ident:a@a.com fromo > Host:158.108.35.237iJ > 13-SEP-2001 04:49:50.10 User:anonymous ident:a@a.com status:000184C4 CWD > dir:PUB:[ANONYMOUS].;tA > 13-SEP-2001 04:49:52.76 User:anonymous ident:a@a.com logged outnE > 13-SEP-2001 05:18:03.17 User:anonymous logged in ident:a@a.com frome > Host:158.108.35.237y >  >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  B TCPIP Services 5.1 ECO 2 adds the following additional ftp logging- cabaility as documented in the release notes:   % ECO D   1-JUN-2001      Alpha and VAXh           Images:c  8         TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE                     V5.1-15D           Problem:  @         Customer requested "extended" FTP server logging similar@         to the session logging that MultiNet provides in its log>         files created in user's home directory.  The FTP ChildB         process will now log session info, requests, and responsesA         in its SYS$LOGIN:TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.LOG file if the logicala2         TCPIP$FTPD_LOG_CLIENT_ACTIVITY is defined.  @         This logical can be defined on a system-wide basis by an=         administrator (so all users' FTP session logs includee>         extended logging), or by a user within their LOGIN.COM:         file (so just that user's FTP session logs include         extended logging).           Reference:  5         PTR 70-5-1661 / CFS.83150 / Req Id: NL_G01322t   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 15:33:42 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: NETSCAPE 6(.1)NEXT on OpenVMS ?( Message-ID: <3ba0b5b6@news.kapsch.co.at>  7 AFAIK, I once read an COMPAQ 'official' statement aboutn  > 	"NETSCAPE V6 will - when finished - be available for OpenVMS"  D because of the efforts of the MOZILLA/Seamonkey for OpenVMS project.  D Now, NETSCAPE V6.1 (Note: I don't count NETSCAPE V6.0 as a browser -C I call it bullshit) is out for some platforms, but not for OpenVMS.b What now ? Am I too impatient ?X  C Or is the fact, that MOZILLA 0.9.3 mostly doesn't run at all on alloE my test systems (ok, I did a upgrade from 0.9.2 which ran way better;0E and I still need to do a fresh install of 0.9.3 and see if that makes C a difference) and the fact, that MOZILLA still doesn't support JAVAlE on OpenVMS the great block on the road to NETSCAPE V6.x for OpenVMS ?   E Remember, NETSCAPE V3 is no longer 'supported' and so we are left nowk@ with freeware (LYNX, MOSAIC, ?) or betatests (MOZILLA) browsers.    O Colin, do you know of new 'official' Q statements regarding a WWW VMS browser ?i   TIAe   -- o< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:35:45 +0100u0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center* Message-ID: <3BA08C01.D21E2975@uk.sun.com>   Tom Linden wrote:p > G > I note in todays Wall street journal which lists the occupants of the< > buildings.9 > that Sun (services) was on floors 25-26 in South Tower.d >   9 They were, all the people I work with in that office got c7 out OK which is a huge relief. I cannot comment on the o$ rest of the staff on the two floors.   Regards  Andrew Harrison, Enterprise IT Architectt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:55:10 +0100e/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>(( Subject: re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center7 Message-ID: <00A01FE4.2AE66AD0.32@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>t   > Alan Greig wrote:w > >s > ... (snip) ... > > I > > I'll also bet they also didn't expect the towers to fall. After all aaH > > huge bomb at base level left the infrastructure intact. Somewhere inI > > the multiple hundreds of dead was probably what they were looking forzJ > > - possibly equivalent to the number killed in a heavy NATO strike. NotJ > > that that excuses anything but the designers of these buildings have aJ > > lot to answer for as well. It seems that multiple floors collapsing atH > > the impact levels onto the floors below cased a chain fracture rightI > > down the 'indestructible' steel tubes around which the infrastructure-D > > was bolted on. That analysis from structural engineers somewhere> > > amidst all the news coverage yesterday if I have it right.  H Personally I hold the exact reverse view: it was no coincidence that allI hijacked jets were big, long-haul with full fuel tanks. If it was to be a>O "symbolic" attack, that would have been unnecessary to plan for, and the attack L would not have been during normal working hours. I've little respect for anyD terrorists, but at least when the IRA bombed the city of London theyF did it in the late evening: they intended to destroy property, not to ( massacre as many innocents as possible.   K Someone asked earlier how you differentiate between a terrorist and someonedG fighting a war. This is how. In a war, you do the best you can to avoid D civilian casualties, whereas a terrorist of the worst sort seeks to K cause as many of them as he can and then hides behind a cloak of anonymity.l   > > D > > Nobody (even the fire dept) expected these buildings to collapseI > > completely and supposedly internal building stress indicators did notoH > > indicate a fatal integrity problem immediately after the collisions.I > > The same engineer said that if you wanted to bring the whole buildingeG > > down with more  certainty they should have crashed much lower down.tC > > With an old style construction skyscraper high level hits would D > > probably not have brought it down. Even if the hit was by a 767. > F > I believe the problem was the 1500 degree temperatures caused by theC > burning aviation fuel.  This softened the steel structures on the J > relevant floors and when one floor collapsed it put huge stresses on theG > softened steel of the next floor below, and that floor collapsing did>J > likewise to the next.  Eventually it reached a point where the weight ofJ > many floors caused the collapse of floors regardless of the state of the > steel. > H > The bomb in the basement car park did not result in temperatures beingD > sustained at this level and hence did not bring the tower(s) down. > F > I have no idea if the plans (or blueprints) of WTC were in the pubicF > domain.  If they are/were, these drawings could easily have provided1 > information which was useful to the terrorists.  > H > > Bet nobody builds anything with that design unmodified again and, ifI > > it turns out that this failure mode had been anticipated but ignored,rB > > then architects should face manslaughter charges for designingI > > buildings containing 50,000 people with this type of known flaw. When-C > > you are playing with 50,000 lives you must take everything intohI > > account. And if that's impossible then maybe we shouldn't build them.  > C > I don't believe it is possible to construct buildings which would.J > withstand those kinds of temperatures short of making them huge concrete > bunkers, at huge expense., >   C There was some analysis of the structural issues in my daily paper.3  A the design of the WTC had the support strength distributed around>L the outside of the building. It survived the initial impact (which must haveF destroyed a significant fraction of these columns) but did not surviveK the subsequent weakening caused by the heat of the fire. Quite possibly thefE designers made sure that it could survive a towering inferno with all B columns intact, but not with a hole smashed in both sides as well.C I'd guess that the horizontal beams bridging the gaps were softenedi< by heat until they could support the building above no more.  L Other skyscrapers put the vertical strength in a massive reinforced concreteJ core and relatively little in the walls. This design might have survived, J but has its own disadvantages. It would probably lead to collapse of some J fraction of the outer parts of the building immediately after the impact, E and it means that in the nightmare  case of the core being shattered  J (by a bomb?) the entire building would topple over rather than collapsing J in on itself, causing further massive damage and loss of life in adjacent I blocks. (Wasn't this the plan in the earlier car bomb attack on the WTC?)*  G Perhaps massive skyscrapers need to be build with both forms of supportbJ strength, but obviously that would cost more and maybe throw the economicsL of skyscrapers themselves into doubt. And now the depths to which terroristsK will sink are clear, I wonder whether big skyscrapers have a future at all.r   	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   h  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."l   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 07:56:59 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center3 Message-ID: <EMieHvT4VUal@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  R In article <3B9FC93F.2D17EC75@virgin.net>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  J > Easy for them to say that in hindsight but supposedly the building *was*M > designed to withstand an aircraft hit. In that case not taking into accounte4 > burning fuel made all their calculations useless.   @    I think they were inspired by the Empire State Building which.    withstood a direct accidental hit by a B17.  H    The fire caused by the B17 was put out before major structural damage    occurred.  E    The WTC supposedly were designed to withstand the impact of a 707. ?    All 4 aircraft hijacked Tuesday were much larger than a 707.u  H    Structural steel buildings are often designed to hold up a minimum ofG    2 hours in an intense fire, time for those who can to get out.  Both 3    towers stood up to the fires for over two hours.-  E    I rather doubt that sprinklers or water cooling for the structuralaH    steel would themsleves operate properly after the building sustained     so much damage.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:30:56 +0100k0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center* Message-ID: <3BA0A700.8FF60040@uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > _ > In article <3B9F4801.672076F3@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:. > >u > > Rob Young wrote: >  > >qM > >>         You will be very hard pressed to find similar acts by Christiansr3 > >>         as it is not supported by their faith.a > >> > >/H > > Kosovo, Muslims massacred, raped, burn't alive by "Christion" serbs. > > Bosnia, Dittot > >oI > > Possibly more relevant to this attack if it is Arab inspired, LebanonlG > > where christian militia backed by Israel, in turn backed by the US,nI > > raped, multilated and killed the Palestinian inhabitants of 2 refugeeh
 > > camps. > >rF > > Muslims do not have the monopoly on attrocity it is endemic. AfterD > > all we have had in the UK our own terrorist conflict between two" > > branches of the same religion. > >i > F >         Note the context... "similar acts by Christians as it is not$ >         supported by their faith." > L >         Such wickedness that you describe above runs contrary to Christian3 >         beliefs and a cursory reading shows that:  >   C It also runs contrary to the teachings in the Koran as it does for j most world religions.   I Sadly christians, muslims, jews, hindu's etc have been all been prepared DE to ignore the basic tenets of their religions or distort them to suit@ their " own political or idealogical ends.  G Muslims do not have a monopoly on this and to suggest that Christianitys2 has a better record is to try to re-write history.  B If you provide the right (wrong) conditions then you make it very A much easier for fringe interpretations of religious teachings to  	 flourish.a  G The basis for example of the Palestinian suicide attacks on Israel has cA as much to do with Socio Economics as it has to do with religion.t   regardse Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:24:41 +0100d/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>d( Subject: re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center7 Message-ID: <00A01FE8.4A75033A.48@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    >  > Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > I > > See an article on the BBC web site. Basically, a number of structuraliL > > engineers say they are surprised the towers held out that long. As noted > >s > J > Easy for them to say that in hindsight but supposedly the building *was*M > designed to withstand an aircraft hit. In that case not taking into accountoL > burning fuel made all their calculations useless. If all the engineers nowN > are surprised that it stayed up that long then why didn't they point out the; > flaw in assuming a plane without fuel in the first place?   M Actually it's quite sensible to assume not much fuel. I should think that the F worst-case scenario was considered to be a crippled airliner trying toC make an emergency landing at LaGuardia or JFK and failing. Such an .E airliner would be inbound (inplying a small fuel load), or would haveeC been at altitude with time to dump surplus fuel during its descent.tD (From memory, takeoffs go out over the ocean not towards Manhattan!)  K I doubt if a fully fuelled big jet crashing horizontally into the building  L under full power was considered realistic: a pilot would simply not let that happen.    	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnote- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   -  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."1   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 09:42:57 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)$( Subject: re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center3 Message-ID: <X3rqKJQkW83l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <00A01FE4.2AE66AD0.32@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:a  M > Someone asked earlier how you differentiate between a terrorist and someone5I > fighting a war. This is how. In a war, you do the best you can to avoidPF > civilian casualties, whereas a terrorist of the worst sort seeks to M > cause as many of them as he can and then hides behind a cloak of anonymity.c  E    That would label WW II British air forces as terrorists.  I am notRG    particulary happy with all the things they felt they had to do, but n.    I am not prepared to agree with that label.  G    I think you have to use judgment, not black and white pronouncements     when deciding these things.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:34:20 +0100g% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>8( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center8 Message-ID: <9tg1qtskg5b268odoiv6mcmsvtvdo868su@4ax.com>  / On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:24:41 +0100, Nigel Arnott$ <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:    L >I doubt if a fully fuelled big jet crashing horizontally into the building M >under full power was considered realistic: a pilot would simply not let that- >happen.  E Was the Empire State Building not struck deliberately when it was hitt, decades ago? Not sure so a genuine question.   >s >	Yours, >		Nigel Arnot. >		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                    >i8 >		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:32:50 +0100w% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center8 Message-ID: <edg1qtsv9bri6sstrero7qlk4knq9id273@4ax.com>  / On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:55:10 +0100, Nigel Arnot $ <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:  L >Someone asked earlier how you differentiate between a terrorist and someoneH >fighting a war. This is how. In a war, you do the best you can to avoidE >civilian casualties, whereas a terrorist of the worst sort seeks to mL >cause as many of them as he can and then hides behind a cloak of anonymity.  D So why did NATO bomb Serbian rail bridges during scheduled passengerE train times and not in the middle of the night? Does that make NATO a > terrorist organization? My guess is that it was thought highlyB unlikely a train would be on the bridge at any particular time but that turned out to be wrong.  E The terrorists picked rush-hour am as the busiest time at US airports.F as the most likely time to evade security according to most analysis I? have seen. But I'll agree maybe they did try to bring down bothrF buildings. In any case it was a horrendous crime whatever the planned.    H >Perhaps massive skyscrapers need to be build with both forms of supportK >strength, but obviously that would cost more and maybe throw the economics M >of skyscrapers themselves into doubt. And now the depths to which terroristsmL >will sink are clear, I wonder whether big skyscrapers have a future at all.  " That's really my question as well.   >  >	Yours, >		Nigel Arnot. >		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                    >d8 >		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:24:11 +0100r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center8 Message-ID: <ine1qtosqpc0ce7spcid65p41gn8l216i7@4ax.com>  F On 13 Sep 2001 07:56:59 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:    F >   The WTC supposedly were designed to withstand the impact of a 707.@ >   All 4 aircraft hijacked Tuesday were much larger than a 707.  D There's an interview with one of the architects of the towers on the CNN web site. Key points are  F 1) The building was designed to withstand an aircraft hit and yes theyF assumed smaller planes but that can't be justified even at the time ofF design. When did the 747 (never mind 767) start flying and when was it> designed? If the building was to withstand an aircraft hit andD advertised as such it should have been able to withstand the largestF aircraft on the design board or else the airplane proof claim dropped.  E 2) He was still surprised the building collapsed. Best guess was thatrC they didn't take the amount of fuel carried today and the damage itb? could do to the core into account. Reading between the lines (If; know...) I think he knew they should have even then. Quote:a  @ "HARRIS: As a member of the team, and having such insight to howD  this building was constructed, could you believe that a plane could bring these buildings down?l  > SWIRSKY: No, as a matter of fact, one of the rationales of the	 structureiF  of the building was that it would be built as a pipe. And that provedD itself to work during the explosion of 1993, when a hole was broughtE into the building, and it survived. But somehow, nobody could foresees# anything like (Tuesday's incident)"   E The words "somehow nobody could foresee" could be telling here. Seems / to suggest he knew they should have even then..     E 3) I have now seen several architects/engineers in the UK interviewed F on the subject. Being a little more distant I think they may feel more? able to speak right now and they all say somebody miscalculated C something somewhere. The combination of the burning fuel, the steel1< tube core fracturing on percussive impact from above and theD 'decouplers' between tube sections seem to be the main agreed points that need to be looked at.   >wI >   Structural steel buildings are often designed to hold up a minimum ofsH >   2 hours in an intense fire, time for those who can to get out.  Both4 >   towers stood up to the fires for over two hours.  ? No they didn't.  In fact I think one fell in less than an hour.nE Estimated 50% evacuation rate per tower was three hours (from anotherr' source and that;s what it took in 1993)-   >-F >   I rather doubt that sprinklers or water cooling for the structuralI >   steel would themsleves operate properly after the building sustained e >   so much damage.A   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:14:22 +0100.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center8 Message-ID: <i5j1qts9qm8nb3ldufjujvq190mo506kfp@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:24:11 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h wrote:    F >Estimated 50% evacuation rate per tower was three hours (from another  E That was without lifts I believe and lifts were partially operationaluE for some time below certain floors in one or both towers according tolD survivors. A number of them have said they were told not to take theA lifts but did so. Had they not done so they would have been dead.r     -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2001 15:35:54 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center' Message-ID: <9nqjoq$lmt$1@joe.rice.edu>   & Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote: : G : Was the Empire State Building not struck deliberately when it was hita. : decades ago? Not sure so a genuine question. :,3 No, it was an accident. Here's some refeence sites:o  &   http://www.msnbc.com/news/542060.asp+   http://www.thecityreview.com/tauranac.htmt'   http://planecrashinfo.com/unusual.htme  A The Mitchell B-25 medium bomber was the plane used in the raid ony Tokyo by Col Jimmie Dolittle.e   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:32:09 +0100s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center8 Message-ID: <qtj1qtgg8pnssg2atorfordbgfre5hqc72@4ax.com>  F On 13 Sep 2001 09:42:57 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   >IF >   That would label WW II British air forces as terrorists.  I am notH >   particulary happy with all the things they felt they had to do, but / >   I am not prepared to agree with that label.i  E I think the Dresden carpet fire-storm bombing was carried out jointlyiE by US and UK aircraft. First the UK wave then the follow-up US wave. e  ( A quick web search confirms this. Sample  Y http://www.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1942-1945/1945/chronology_1945_7.htmls  8 February 13-14: RAF and USAF Air Raids Devastate Dresden  @ British and American air raids virtually obliterated the city ofC Dresden. Estimates of the toll of civilian casualties ranged in thelC vicinity of 100,000. The author Kurt Vonnegut, a prisoner of war inrC Dresden, described the bombardment in his book Slaughterhouse Five.t= Remarking on the offensive, Winston Churchill commented, "ThesD destruction of Dresden remains a query against the conduct of Allied	 bombing."b>  Copyright 2001 Yad Vashem The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authoritye  H >   I think you have to use judgment, not black and white pronouncements >   when deciding these things.n   Agreed.  -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 19:08:59 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>t( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade CenterH Message-ID: <y4y9njvx04.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:r  J >    Structural steel buildings are often designed to hold up a minimum ofI >    2 hours in an intense fire, time for those who can to get out.  Bothv5 >    towers stood up to the fires for over two hours.h  D I think that isn't correct - it's more like 60 and 90 minutes, IIRC.  ; I read today the German standard requirement is 90 minutes.f   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 19:12:17 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>r( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade CenterH Message-ID: <y4vginvwum.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:e  H > 1) The building was designed to withstand an aircraft hit and yes theyH > assumed smaller planes but that can't be justified even at the time ofH > design. When did the 747 (never mind 767) start flying and when was it > designed?   H The WTC was built between 1966 and 1973; the 747 was rolled out in 1972,
 I believe.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:19:18 +0200r& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center* Message-ID: <3BA0EA96.9E85B8EF@dplanet.ch>  G I see from CNN that a senior executive in Sun was among those killed onr Tuesday.  ) My commiseration to you and your company.      John McLeand     andrew harrison wrote: >  > Tom Linden wrote:  > >eI > > I note in todays Wall street journal which lists the occupants of thel
 > > buildingsl; > > that Sun (services) was on floors 25-26 in South Tower.  > >v > : > They were, all the people I work with in that office got8 > out OK which is a huge relief. I cannot comment on the& > rest of the staff on the two floors. > 	 > Regardss > Andrew Harrisong > Enterprise IT Architectd   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 12:24:18 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center3 Message-ID: <UT4MW9FCSAWj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3BA0EA96.9E85B8EF@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:, > I > I see from CNN that a senior executive in Sun was among those killed on:
 > Tuesday. > + > My commiseration to you and your company.j  J A friend of mine works for Sun here in the Chicago area. He said he lost aL lot of friends Tuesday. Sun had 2 floors of the south tower, IIRC 23 and 24.  K It's hard to say this, but if "only" 3700 people are missing, then over 90% + of the people in the two buildings escaped.n   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 12:27:10 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)e( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center3 Message-ID: <qL3EUAJLyOwO@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <y4y9njvx04.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > K >>    Structural steel buildings are often designed to hold up a minimum ofoJ >>    2 hours in an intense fire, time for those who can to get out.  Both6 >>    towers stood up to the fires for over two hours. > F > I think that isn't correct - it's more like 60 and 90 minutes, IIRC. > = > I read today the German standard requirement is 90 minutes.b  J For a fire, maybe. For a jet impacting the building and dumping full tanksI of jet fuel i doubt it. I don't have the timeline in front of me, but theuI first tower hit did survive for about 90 minutes before it collapsed. The.K second one was hit lower, so there was more weight on the heated structure.@! It failed after about 60 minutes.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:13:16 -0400  From: William_Bochnik@acml.com( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center> Message-ID: <OF10EDF966.F71561FB-ON85256AC6.005E8448@acml.com>  ? I would think the assumption on these numbers would be if theree: was an office fire, not a full tank of jet fuel burning...    x                                                                                                                         x                     Jan Vorbrueggen                                                                                     x                     <jan@fsnif.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-                To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                      x                     bochum.de>                                          cc:                                             x                                                                 Subject:     Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center            x                     09/13/2001 01:08 PM                                                                                 x                                                                                                                         x                                                                                                                               / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c  ? >    Structural steel buildings are often designed to hold up an
 minimum of> >    2 hours in an intense fire, time for those who can to get
 out.  Both5 >    towers stood up to the fires for over two hours.f  > I think that isn't correct - it's more like 60 and 90 minutes, IIRC.o  ; I read today the German standard requirement is 90 minutes.H        Jan          F ______________________________________________________________________  : The information contained in this transmission may contain< privileged and confidential information and is intended only< for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the< intended recipient,  or an employee or agent responsible for9                   delivering this message to the intendeds)                   recipient,  any review,n?                   dissemination, distribution or duplication ofo$                   this communication<                   is strictly prohibited. If you are not the%                   intended recipient,c@                   please contact the sender immediately by reply$                   e-mail and destroy5                   all copies of the original message.f   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 10:12:02 -0700& From: meetkrishnas@hotmail.com (krish)% Subject: Performce of Java on OpenVMSa= Message-ID: <19e2ed27.0109130912.73ba3278@posting.google.com>a   Hello,  E We have developed a GUI for one of our product using Java. When i waslE testing this GUI on an OpenVMS ALPHA7.2-1 with JVM 1.3.0, i found the E performance to be abysmal.Every buttom click would take a few minutestF to respond and display the contents on the screen. I observed the sameE behaviour on all other JVM,like 1.2 flavours(our GUI required JVM 1.2aB or more).But,the same GUI when run on a Windows machine, perform's very efficiently.H  D Initially my machine had a Physical memory of 64MB. Relating the badD GUI performance to the Physical memory constraint, i increased it toF 96MB. But this did not prove any improvement. Subsequently i installed- Java Fast VM for 1.3.0, but nothing improved.D  < I would appreciate if someone can advice me on any tuning orC improvement to the system, that will improve the performance of thek GUI.   Regardsa Krisho   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:22:42 -0400 ) From: Steve Martin <ecprod@bellsouth.net>u Subject: Re: Rape me! - Message-ID: <3BA0A512.31804596@bellsouth.net>i   "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:t  7 > Don't try to compile frantically while you're moaning 7 > alongside a bright desktop.  Some ethernets confront,s9 > disrupt, and proliferate.  Hey, robots transport aroundy0 > unlimited data centers, unless they're opaque.   (snip)  5 Anyone know what this garbage is all about? I've beenu6 seeing it on many newsgroup postings in several groups lately... Hmmmm.................   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:43:14 +0200g/ From: "Jonathan" <jonathan@nospam-tricolon.com>: Subject: Re: Rape me!d* Message-ID: <tq1ag6g5ojdv5d@news.demon.nl>  9 > > Don't try to compile frantically while you're moaning 9 > > alongside a bright desktop.  Some ethernets confront,d; > > disrupt, and proliferate.  Hey, robots transport arounde2 > > unlimited data centers, unless they're opaque. >  > (snip) > 7 > Anyone know what this garbage is all about? I've beeni8 > seeing it on many newsgroup postings in several groups! > lately... Hmmmm................  >s  G Doesn't it have anything to do with a virus? I read that the W95.Hybrid I posts to newsgroups, so that other infected computers can 'update' to the - lastest libraries of the virus or something!?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:46:31 -0400R- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>g Subject: Re: Rape me!n+ Message-ID: <sba0727b.096@AAASMTA.aaas.org>:  J This looks similar to messages that go out on Jam Echelon day. Mine from =2 1999: http://eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/bubbles.html  / Quite possible after ESR's statement yesterday: H http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=3D01/09/11/2048256&mode=3Dthread  A >>> Steve Martin <ecprod@bellsouth.net> 09/13/2001 8:22:42 AM >>>t "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:o  7 > Don't try to compile frantically while you're moaningu7 > alongside a bright desktop.  Some ethernets confront,l9 > disrupt, and proliferate.  Hey, robots transport aroundi0 > unlimited data centers, unless they're opaque.   (snip)  5 Anyone know what this garbage is all about? I've beent6 seeing it on many newsgroup postings in several groups lately... Hmmmm................r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:53:13 +0100s8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Rape me!IN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF04B@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  H Best place for garbage is in the bin - immediately and don't wonder why.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:20:02 GMTA* From: "Rod Smith" <rodsmith@rodsbooks.com> Subject: Re: Rape me!t1 Message-ID: <m3iqn9.2tg.ln@speaker.rodsbooks.com>-  < In article <3BA0A512.31804596@bellsouth.net>, "Steve Martin" <ecprod@bellsouth.net> wrote:i   > "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:O > D >> Don't try to compile frantically while you're moaning alongside aF >> bright desktop.  Some ethernets confront, disrupt, and proliferate.F >> Hey, robots transport around unlimited data centers, unless they're
 >> opaque. >  > (snip) > D > Anyone know what this garbage is all about? I've been seeing it on5 > many newsgroup postings in several groups lately...  > Hmmmm................   5 I've forgotten the name for it, but it's basically ann= artifically-generated string of words that follows some basic'B grammatical rules. Spammers often use it to evade spam filters; byB tacking this gibberish onto the end of a spam, and using differentA gibberish in different newsgroups, the posts will be different invH different groups, so automated spam filters that cancel excessive cross-$ or multi-posting will miss the spam.  C Somebody else suggested it has something to do with a virus. AFAIK, H that's not the case, although it's conceivable that a virus or worm that/ spreads via newsgroups would use the technique.e   -- (! Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.comh http://www.rodsbooks.com1 Author of books on Linux & multi-OS configurations   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:39:36 GMTt% From: geary@bermuda.io.com (Big Bird)o Subject: rcp adds linefeeds?C Message-ID: <cj5o7.308028$NK1.28755626@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>g  D I've get files with a fixed record format on our VMS (7.2-1) machineE that I'm trying to copy to an HPUX machine using rcp (TCP/IP Services, 5.0a).  C Apparently, rcp adds a linefeed character after every record. I caniF find no mention of this `feature' in the documentation. How can I tell rcp to stop molesting my file?  $ This is the file I'm trying to copy.  % $ dir/ful RIP_SH_NONMTR_51_59-10.DAT r  : Directory DISK$DEV_USER:[GEARYM.KBUILD.PROGRAM.ME_SELECT]   3 RIP_SH_NONMTR_51_59-10.DAT;1 File ID: (259753,1,0)  " Size: 229/276 Owner: [MIS,GEARYM] ! Created: 30-MAR-2001 10:38:24.61 c$ Revised: 6-APR-2001 16:57:13.26 (3) ! Expires: 13-SEP-2001 15:50:26.93 s Backup: 9-SEP-2001 22:22:37.16 d Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization: Sequential  Shelved state: Online   Caching attribute: Writethrough V File attributes: Allocation: 276, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, No version limit - Record format: Fixed length 272 byte records f Record attributes: None  RMS attributes: None t Journaling enabled: None a< File protection: System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World:  Access Cntrl List: None  Client attributes: None   ! Total of 1 file, 229/276 blocks. a    
 Mark Geary --       "Build high for happiness."t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:52:56 +0200o0 From: "Alfons Grammer" <Alfons.Grammer@force.de>5 Subject: remove  DQA0 drivers (EIDE disks) from VMS ?r/ Message-ID: <9nq6o2$ob3$05$1@news.t-online.com>:  J With current AXP21264 systems the IRQs 14, 15 are used for the EIDE disks, DQA0/1, DQB0/1.uL I have to use these irqs for an parallel I/O interface, as I did in the past) with AXP21064 and AXP21164 based systems.t  + I removed the EIDE device at SRM console byf!     >>> isacfg -rm -slot 0 -dev 6lL and expected, that then the DRQ driver would not be loaded by VMS ( v. 7.1-2J with patches/upgrades). However, the DQA/DQB devices are still there after reboot, with err count = 1.y  I How can I remove the DQ devices permanently from VMS? I want to be shure,-L that I can't get any conflicts between DQ and the parallel interface driver.  	 -- Alfonsu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:47:57 GMTe? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)mQ Subject: Re: SMP and Cutler (Was: HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)r0 Message-ID: <3ba0aa93.16429904@news.demon.co.uk>  @ On 12 Sep 2001 16:05:02 -0500, brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote:  , >Bob Willard <bobwbsgs@mediaone.net> writes: >> Bill Todd wrote:s >>> J >>> Cutler wasn't a tech writer, of course, but he did write a significantN >>> portion of the VMS V1 kernel code and was a pivotal force in managing thatP >>> release's successful creation (even though his management style could take a >>> toll on others). >>> 
 >>> - bill >> eE >> Dave also personally wrote a lot of the SMP code for VMS, from his1@ >> office in ZSO; after Dick had said that VMS was ASMP forever.I >> I contend that the SMPization of VMS is the work of a real programmer.t > D >Perhaps, but in a very quick (3 minute) search of the listings fromG >V5.0 in the [SYS] facility, Cutler's name does not show up in the edit C >history (yes, I'm aware that support was latent in V4.7, but thoserL >listings aren't currently available).  At the time that SMP was being added= >(1985 through 1988), I believe he was working with Prism.   c >nA >Yes, the SMPization of VMS was the work of real programmers, but ( >Cutler (apparently) wasn't one of them. >sE Indeed he wasn't.  The SMP project was largely the work of Bill LaingtD and Rod Gamache (both now with Microsoft), and Mike Harvey (now with Oracle).   >--  >uN >Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com   Jim.     Jim Johnson  Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:09:00 GMT . From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>& Subject: Sporge attack (was: Rape me!)= Message-ID: <wS4o7.62312$xb.32471276@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>n  + Steve Martin  <ecprod@bellsouth.net> wrote:   , >Anyone know what this garbage is all about?  H I am the target of Hipclone sporge injected into News via an open serverI in Moscow; check the Path headers. Just killfile articles with the domaine sovam.com anywhere in the Path.@  L Sporge is typically injected into News via Russian servers administered in a. haphazard manner. They don't care to block it.  G You need to recognize this for what it is, an attack on Usenet meant tofH disrupt conversations in a variety of newsgroups. If any of it was TRUE,L you certainly shouldn't be mailing or posting a response. You need to ignoreI it, else you end up doing exactly what the extremely vicious troll wants.0  I For further information on Hipcrime and sporge attacks, see the newsgroup1 news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:09:21 +0200e( From: Matthias Koch <koch@weblab-edv.de>* Subject: Submitting Batch Jobs from Apache, Message-ID: <3BA10461.BF4C118@weblab-edv.de>   Hi!   G For a combination of a VAX-Application with CSWS I create a DCL command D file from a web form which is then submitted into a VAX batch queue.G Therefore I allowed the account APACHE$WWW batch access. But there must H be another privilege I have to grant: The job ist submitted successfully# but not executed. The logfile says:n  ; %SYSTEM-NOTALLPRIV, not all requested privileges authorized:  ; Unfortunately it is not clear, which privileges are needed.R    @ Another solution would be submitting the job as a different user (something like SUID in unix). i   Any help is appreciated.   Thanks,l Matthias   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:56:59 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>C Subject: Re: The Register: For hire: Compaq's iPaq engineering teame+ Message-ID: <3BA0E55B.427376F0@bigfoot.com>S   [snip]  B I am currently developing an application for the Pocket PC OS, andF having looked around at all of the PDA's, I can tell you that The iPAQH was not particularly impressive.  Specifically, it's display is not veryG bright at all.  I intended to use Casio's E-125 PDA for deployment of a-E system due to it's incredibly bright TFT display with 65K colors.  ItsG puts all of the other PDA displays that I looked at, to shame.  It is adF bit heavier and bulkier than the iPAQ, but for the need my system willB address, it's not a concern.  Maybe I'll take a look at the new HPG devices when they hit the stores.  Also, I wish someone would produce a F PDA with a built-in (not add-on) PCMCIA slot that does not cost an arm
 and a leg.   HM  E > I thought that the iPAQ might make it as well but recent reports onfF > the *new* HP Journada seem to suggest it might actually be superior.@ > Also the new HP Journada uses the same Intel chip as the iPAQ. > H > See the following HP press release and suddenly Compaq's iPAQ isn't so > special any more...  > 6 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/06sep01a.htm >  > press releasel* > HP Unveils Powerful, New HP Jornada PDAs? > First PDAs to Ship Based on Microsoft Pocket PC 2002 Softwaret > " > PALO ALTO, Calif., Sept. 6, 2001 > H > Hewlett-Packard Company (NYSE:HWP) today announced shipment of two newD > color personal digital assistants -- the first PDAs to feature theE > robust Microsoft Pocket PC 2002 Premium Edition software. OfferingpF > mobile professionals greater power and expandability, the HP JornadaB > 565 and 568 PDAs will be unveiled publicly for the first time at3 > today's DEMOmobile conference in La Jolla, Calif.l > B > "HP envisions a world in which mobility radically transforms howE > consumers and business professionals operate and manage their dailybG > lives," said Jean-Luc Meyer, worldwide marketing manager, HP EmbeddedtG > and Personal Systems Organization. "These new PDAs offer cutting-edge0; > technology to address the needs of mobile professionals."  > H > "The HP Jornada 560 PDA series is one of the best designed yet to comeG > to market," said J. Gerry Purdy, Ph.D., president and chief executive3A > officer, Mobile Insights, Inc., a market research firm based inoH > Mountain View, Calif. "All the desirable and leading technologies have@ > come together beautifully in one lightweight, thin device thatD > optimizes productivity and entertainment capabilities for the mostD > discriminating mobile professional. With the built-in CompactFlashE > Type 1 extended slot, IT professionals are going to find it easy to * > adapt it to many enterprise situations." >  > Expandable and Versatile > G > The HP Jornada PDAs offer mobile professionals a portable solution torE > maximize efficiency and provide the freedom to enhance productivity = > and personal creativity. Users can access critical business H > information, browse the Internet, check e-mail, communicate with otherD > PDAs, PCs and printers, and capture, share and edit digital images > while on the go(1)(2). > F > (Note: Wireless Internet use requires separately purchased modem and@ > service contract. Check with service provider for coverage and< > availability in your area. Not all Web content available.) > H > Featuring a built-in CompactFlash Type 1 extended slot, the HP JornadaG > PDAs allow users to add memory cards and optional accessories such as C > wireless network solutions and the HP Pocket Camera. Unlike otherr> > PDAs, HP's devices feature a removable/rechargeable 14-hour,G > lithium-polymer battery and HP Safe Store, which offers an additionalhA > 8 MB of FlashROM for backing up vital data and applications(3).r > H > Providing increased versatility for the professional on the go, the HPG > Jornada PDAs feature a vibrant, 16-bit front-lit TFT reflective color ? > screen for excellent indoor and outdoor viewing and an Intel_B > StrongARM 206 MHz high-performance processor for quick access to > information. >  > Software Solutions > G > Microsoft's latest Pocket PC operating system, Pocket PC 2002 PremiumaH > Edition, provides a robust suite of applications ideal for both mobileF > professionals and enterprise customers. Applications include: PocketH > Outlook, Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Pocket Internet Explorer, TerminalD > Services Client, MSN Messenger, Microsoft Reader 2.0 and Microsoft( > Windows Media Player 8 for Pocket PC. > H > HP also has bundled an expansive suite of software solutions includingD > Landware's OmniSolve, a popular business calculator, and Developer@ > One's CodeWallet Pro, for securely and conveniently organizingB > important personal and financial information. To further enhanceD > enterprise users' efficiency, Certicom's MovianVPN supports a wideD > range of popular VPN servers to enable secure remote access to the > corporate Intranet(1). > A > Also included are HP Chai and HP Microchai software which allowa? > enterprise users to develop and run Java-based applications.o > ( > U.S. Availability, Pricing and Support > D > The HP Jornada 565 and 568 PDAs are now shipping to retail outletsG > with expected availability on Oct. 4 in North America. The HP JornadavA > 565 PDA features 32 MB RAM and has an estimated retail price ofo? > $599(4). The HP Jornada 568 PDA features 64 MB RAM and has any$ > estimated retail price of $649(4). > H > A $50 mail-in rebate is planned to be available for both products fromH > Oct. 4 through the end of the year. Both PDAs are backed by a one-year > limited warranty.M > B > Additional information about HP Jornada PDAs and handheld PCs is) > available at http://www.hp.com/jornada.t > 
 > About HP > G > Hewlett-Packard Company -- a leading global provider of computing and-G > imaging solutions and services -- is focused on making technology and F > its benefits accessible to all. HP had total revenue from continuingH > operations of $48.8 billion in its 2000 fiscal year. Information about; > HP and its products can be found on the World Wide Web atr > http://www.hp.com. > C > (1) Wireless Internet use requires separately purchased modem ando@ > service contract. Check with service provider for coverage and; > availability in your area. Not all Web content available.i > B > (2) Photo capture requires separately purchased HP Pocket Camera > accessory. > H > (3) Estimated battery life without backlight, actual battery life will > vary based on usage. >  > (4) Actual prices may vary.: > C > Microsoft and Windows are U.S. registered trademarks of Microsofto > Corp.f > E > Intel is a U.S. registered trademark Celeron is a U.S. trademark ofe
 > Intel Corp.d > 4 > Java is a U.S. trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc. > D > This news release contains forward-looking statements that involveA > risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other thangC > statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed.B > forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptionsA > include the possibility that the market for the sale of certaincH > products and services may not develop as expected; that development ofC > these products and services may not proceed as planned; and other0D > risks that are described from time to time in HP 's Securities andF > Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited to the annualH > report on Form 10-K for the year ended Oct. 31, 2000, and subsequentlyG > filed reports. If any of these risks or uncertainties materializes orRF > any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differF > materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no@ > obligation and does not intend to update these forward-looking
 > statements.t > C > >However, I wouldn't put a lot of credence to such a news tidbit.t >  > Maybe you might now? > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:03:01 GMTo& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>= Subject: Were there any DECUS sessions yesterday (Wednesday)? > Message-ID: <Vf1o7.145982$aZ.21795089@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  E Any there any highlights you can share with those of us that were not  lucky(???) enough to attend?   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 02:23:16 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)y Subject: Re: World Trade Centerg3 Message-ID: <WSCLr82dtF9W@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  S In article <3BA03D05.7EF20CB2@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:    > J > Unfortunately the Mid-east situation and others around the world all getG > back to a larger issue of resorting to violence to solve problems and-@ > disputes rather than calm and rational discussion.  Sure theseF > discussions are not easy but the alternative is far more unpleasant. >  >    	"Calm and rational discussion"t 	e? 	It is as if we are having a bit of a disturbance in the schoolo> 	yard and little Billy smashed Timmy in the head with his fist@ 	because Timmy wouldn't share his soccer ball.  Bad Billy!  Bad! 	"Now let's talk it out..."n  9 	Do you understand that Osama Bin Ladin is out to destroyo: 	us?  Have you read any of his interviews?  How about this< 	for a nice overview of the man that we need to have a "calm 	and rational discussion" with:g  8 Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview by Peter Arnett   H BIN LADIN: After the collapse of the Soviet Union in which the US has noK mentionable role, but rather the credit goes to God, Praise and Glory be toaM Him, and the Mujahidin in Afghanistan, this collapse made the US more haughtynO and arrogant and it has started to look at itself as a Master of this world andlN established what it calls the new world order. It wanted to delude people thatL it can do whatever it wants, but it can't do this. It leveled against me andN others as many accusations as it desired and wished. It is these (accusations)O that you mentioned. The US today as a result of the arrogant atmosphere has setnM a double standard, calling whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. ItuO wants to occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose on us agents to rule-O us based not on what God has revealed and wants us to agree on all these. If we M refuse to do so, it will say you are terrorists. With a simple look at the USaO behaviors, we find that it judges the behavior of the poor Palestinian children)D whose country was occupied: if they throw stones against the IsraeliN occupation, it says they are terrorists whereas when the Israeli pilots bombedK the United Nations building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children and O women, the US stopped any plan to condemn Israel. At the time that they condemn L any Muslim who calls for his right, they receive the highest top official ofI the Irish Republican Army (Gerry Adams) at the White House as a political L leader , while woe, all woe is the Muslims if they cry out for their rights.L Wherever we look, we find the US as the leader of terrorism and crime in theK world. The US does not consider it a terrorist act to throw atomic bombs atiN nations thousands of miles away, when it would not be possible for those bombsN to hit military troops only. These bombs were rather thrown at entire nations,M including women, children and elderly people and up to this day the traces ofdG those bombs remain in Japan. The US does not consider it terrorism wheniO hundreds of thousands of our sons and brothers in Iraq died for lack of food ornL medicine. So, there is no base for what the US says and this saying does notL affect us, because we, by the grace of God, are dependent on Him, Praise andN Glory be to Him, getting help from Him against the US. As for the last part ofN your question, we are fulfilling a duty which God, Praise and Glory be to Him,N decreed for us. We look upon those heroes, those men who undertook to kill theN American occupiers in Riyadh and Khobar (Dhahran). We describe those as heroesO and describe them as men. They have pulled down the disgrace and submissivenessbN off the forehead of their nation. We ask Allah, Praise and Glory be to Him, to accept them as martyrs.     * 	Do you see how much insanity is in there?  C 	Poor starving Iraqis?  Who invaded Kuwait, you wannabe revisionistv 	historian!l  E "The US does not consider it a terrorist act to throw atomic bombs atiN nations thousands of miles away, when it would not be possible for those bombsN to hit military troops only. These bombs were rather thrown at entire nations,M including women, children and elderly people and up to this day the traces ofe those bombs remain in Japan"  3 	Hiroshimo/Nagasaki card?  Why isn't that familiar!n  9 	Bombing in Riyadh and Allah will accept them as martyrs?6    	America... leader in terrorism:  M "Wherever we look, we find the US as the leader of terrorism and crime in theW world."o   	Give me a break.  i  C 	Calm and rational discussion?  I don't think there is any rationalo 	thinking there.   				Robi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:38:37 +0200n$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> Subject: Re: World Trade Centern Message-ID: <3ba0627e$1@hcwe67>   	 well put.   J > My limited acquaintance with the history of the region strongly suggestsI > that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.  But I'll let peoplee, > better-educated in this area address that. >e > - bill >a >r >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 04:20:01 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>' Subject: Re: World Trade Centeri( Message-ID: <9npq56$q7t$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:WSCLr82dtF9W@eisner.encompasserve.org...d   ...5    > "Calm and rational discussion"  K Yup.  Are you saying you won't participate?  Then don't complain when otherr8 avenues of expression take its place, such as Tuesday's.   ...d  : > Do you understand that Osama Bin Ladin is out to destroy; > us?  Have you read any of his interviews?  How about thisy= > for a nice overview of the man that we need to have a "calmg  > and rational discussion" with: >z9 > Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview by Peter Arnett  >.J > BIN LADIN: After the collapse of the Soviet Union in which the US has noJ > mentionable role, but rather the credit goes to God, Praise and Glory be toG > Him, and the Mujahidin in Afghanistan, this collapse made the US more3 haughty7G > and arrogant and it has started to look at itself as a Master of thiso	 world andyK > established what it calls the new world order. It wanted to delude peoplee thatJ > it can do whatever it wants, but it can't do this. It leveled against me andeB > others as many accusations as it desired and wished. It is these
 (accusations) I > that you mentioned. The US today as a result of the arrogant atmosphere  has settL > a double standard, calling whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. ItL > wants to occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose on us agents to ruleK > us based not on what God has revealed and wants us to agree on all these.o If we L > refuse to do so, it will say you are terrorists. With a simple look at the USH > behaviors, we find that it judges the behavior of the poor Palestinian childrenF > whose country was occupied: if they throw stones against the IsraeliI > occupation, it says they are terrorists whereas when the Israeli pilotst bombedI > the United Nations building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children  and I > women, the US stopped any plan to condemn Israel. At the time that theyo condemnoK > any Muslim who calls for his right, they receive the highest top officialc ofK > the Irish Republican Army (Gerry Adams) at the White House as a politicalaF > leader , while woe, all woe is the Muslims if they cry out for their rights.SJ > Wherever we look, we find the US as the leader of terrorism and crime in the J > world. The US does not consider it a terrorist act to throw atomic bombs atJ > nations thousands of miles away, when it would not be possible for those bombsrG > to hit military troops only. These bombs were rather thrown at entire  nations,L > including women, children and elderly people and up to this day the traces ofI > those bombs remain in Japan. The US does not consider it terrorism when.I > hundreds of thousands of our sons and brothers in Iraq died for lack ofn food orPJ > medicine. So, there is no base for what the US says and this saying does nothJ > affect us, because we, by the grace of God, are dependent on Him, Praise and H > Glory be to Him, getting help from Him against the US. As for the last part ofeK > your question, we are fulfilling a duty which God, Praise and Glory be to  Him,L > decreed for us. We look upon those heroes, those men who undertook to kill theeI > American occupiers in Riyadh and Khobar (Dhahran). We describe those as  heroesB > and describe them as men. They have pulled down the disgrace and submissivenessH > off the forehead of their nation. We ask Allah, Praise and Glory be to Him, tom > accept them as martyrs.h >h >h+ > Do you see how much insanity is in there?r  E Frankly, it sounds rather like you:  significant amounts of religioussK folderol that's not well-based in the religions you profess to honor (i.e., L religious extremism rather than religious centrism), a liberal sprinkling ofG half-truths that can, unfortunately, impress the gullible as the entire0E truth, and a complete refusal to entertain, let alone actually try tosC understand, an opposing viewpoint (probably because both of you are - absolutely certain that God is on your side).l  H Sure, trying to carry on a rational discussion with someone like that isI hard.  I know from personal experience that trying to carry on a rationaloK discussion with *you* is hard.  Unfortunately, when you combine people likeaA you with people like bin Laden, the rest of us have to suffer theD consequences too.   D So since it's not practical to lock all people like you and him awayE somewhere safely isolated from the rest of us and wait until the dustrJ settles, the rest of us *try* to get you to talk rather than fight.  If itK can come as close to working, as it did under Rabin, between foes as bitterdJ as the Israelis and the Palestinians have recently been, then there's hope for anyone.o   > D > Poor starving Iraqis?  Who invaded Kuwait, you wannabe revisionist > historian!  @ It wasn't the *starving* Iraqis:  Iraq's military was reasonablyJ well-provisioned.  And our own intelligence assessment was that Saddam wasH sufficiently unpopular that his own people (the ones that *are* starving2 now) would get rid of him and save us the trouble.  L Problem was, enough of his military survived Desert Storm and remained loyalI to him that a popular uprising wasn't really feasible - and they're stillnK the ones getting what food there is.  So we punished the Iraqi people (longaI after it became abundantly clear that starving them wasn't going to cause K the uprising either) for not doing the job we hadn't, and across the regionoL our popularity went 'way down (and to some degree Saddam's may have gone up) as a result.  K There's no revisionist history here, or even necessarily any contradiction:oL just a view from a different place, and one that looks at different parts ofJ society.  Fail to understand and try to deal with that other view, and you2 get the opportunity to deal with the consequences.  L America affects the entire world, constantly and profoundly.  Sometimes it'sI for the good, sometimes not - and regardless of whether the net effect isbI positive, it's not spread around *evenly*, so there are many parts of theJE world where the local net effect is negative.  There is a very common H tendency for people in America, if they're aware of this at all, just toL shrug their shoulders, say "That's the way the cookie crumbles", and proceedI to ignore the situation.  Events like Tuesday's are possibly the only way H that the otherwise powerless affected peoples can tell us that we simplyI can't do that, since we just seem to be too busy with our own concerns tos pay much attention otherwise.t  " *That's* why talking is important.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:17:50 +0200o& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> Subject: Re: World Trade Centert* Message-ID: <3BA0EA3E.6C9B63E2@dplanet.ch>   Hi Rob,e  , Quick summary of my rather lengthy response:  E - Strip away some of the rhetoric and Bin Ladin has some valid points @ - BL has neither the political or economic strength to change US7 thinking but he does have the resources to use violencelG - I hope that the US response is more intelligent than violent revenge; E I hope that many deaths from Tuesday morning are not in vain and thatpF they bring into being a new respect for the views of all people of the world.    " Now for some detailed comments =85  G Peeling the religious fervour and rhetoric from Bin Ladin's response toeC a question from Peter Arnett and we find some interesting things ..e  E "The US today as a result of the arrogant atmosphere has set a doubleVD standard, calling whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. ItG wants to occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose on us agentsoF to rule us based not on what God has revealed and wants us to agree onB all these. If we refuse to do so, it will say you are terrorists."  B - Probably true.   Be a "friend" of the US and one is treated very? differently to a country that refuses to follow the USA line ofe thinking.  =      D " With a simple look at the US behaviors, we find that it judges theF behavior of the poor Palestinian children  whose country was occupied:E if they throw stones against the Israeli occupation, it says they arerD terrorists whereas when the Israeli pilots bombed the United NationsF building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children and women, the US$ stopped any plan to condemn Israel."  G - True =85 or if this incident isn't true then I am sure that others ino2 the same conflict will equally fit this sentiment.    G "At the time that they condemn any Muslim who calls for his right, they D receive the highest top official of the Irish Republican Army (GerryF Adams) at the White House as a political leader, while woe, all woe is. the Muslims if they cry out for their rights."  D - True (but I wonder about the nature of those rights).  From what IC have read, Adams may not have pulled the trigger in various acts ofhD sectarian violence but he metaphorically supplied the bullets.  ManyE Muslims have done less than this and yet the attitude towards them is  very very different.    G "The US does not consider it a terrorist act to throw atomic bombs at =l  H nations thousands of miles away, when it would not be possible for thoseD bombs to hit military troops only. These bombs were rather thrown atF entire nations, including women, children and elderly people and up to5 this day the traces of  those bombs remain in Japan.".  C - True.  With current knowledge and analysis it is not difficult tosC question the wisdom of using the atomic bomb on a country which wasaH already substantially beaten into submission.  (But I am also aware thatG the consequences of long-term radiation were not fully understood, thatuF the bombing may have avoided any kind of protracted battle, that there8 was political expediency in bombing Japan =85 and so on)  H "The US does not consider it terrorism when hundreds of thousands of our= sons and brothers in Iraq died for lack of food or medicine."f  A - True.  The sanctions against Iraq have meant a lack of food andtG medicine and this has meant death to many people.  In reality sanctions F have little impact on their target and usually only manage to polariseC public opinion.  Look at Cuban sanctions and what they have done too US-Cuban relations. ='      - >   Do you see how much insanity is in there?a  ? Yes.  Very little.  Lots of religious fervour, but not a lot of @ insanity.  Bin Ladin looks at the situation from a far different perspective than you do.    E Bin Ladin does not have the political or economic status to influencelD the decisions and attitudes of the USA and it would seem that he hasA resorted to financing acts of violence in order to oppose what he % percieves as the pressure of the USA.)  H I am not saying that he is in any way justified in taking this approach,@ only that I think his grievances have some element of substance,* especially when seen from his perspective.    G His comments about US injustices cannot be denied.  The USA attempts tosF demand that other countries follow the US line of thinking and it alsoF shows an arrogance when other countries want the USA to follow theirs.  H The USA is demanding that other countries comply with US law and it doesF things like arrest foreign nationals on arrival in the USA for actionsF they committed within their own countries even when those actions wereF within the laws of that country.  The US has chosen to renege on KyotoE agreements and in doing so has effectively told the rest of the worldaE that it does not care about the impact that its actions have on other D countries.  For many years the USA has attempted to manipulate other@ countries through the removal of democratically elected heads ofA government such as President Allende in Chile, and supported manys@ corrupt dictatorships such as those in various African and SouthB American countries, the former Shah of Iran, Pol Pot and his KhmerE Rouge, and the USA even supported Bin Ladin for his opposition to ther" Russian occupation of Afghanistan.  B The US might be the "world police" but they should be treating allE people/countries/systems equally rather than show strong bias towardstD their "friends".  The failure to condemn Israel for shooting unarmedF people but the rapid condemnation of others for lesser offences is notG only unfair but it reduces the credibility of the US in the eye of muchaG of the world.  As many people have said, if the roles were reversed andvC it was Palestine attacking Israel, US condemnation and interventiona would have been very swift. =d    H Nothing can justify the extent of Tuesday's violent attacks but one mustG understand that there are very good reasons why many people are angeredo0 by injustices in US policies at home and abroad.    B I can only hope that the US reaction to these acts of terrorism isF responsible and appropriate. At the present time there is far too muchF talk of revenge for the attacks and far too little about understanding why this could have happened.a  H Violent retaliation against a small group of people will generate only a@ tiny sense of revenge and will do little to change a world where5 violence seems to be the only option for many people.h  H As a friend of mine so eloquently put it, unless attitudes change, theseG recent events will simply raise the bar for terrorists everywhere.  She H was effectively saying that in future terrorists might resort to nuclear weapons to make their point.    D The USA must learn to act with proper respect for all countries, allH individuals and all kinds of Beliefs. Yes, this cuts both ways and otherH countries/systems/religions must also learn the same lessons, both at anB international level and, just as importantly, at a national level.  ? The only way to engender this respect is through discussion andwG understanding. Rational agreement to disagree is a far better situation.? than violence because the respectful disagreement maintains theeH communication channel and permits the development of mutually acceptable compromises.  H (The desire to discuss and understand should never be seen as a weaknessH because it is the only way towards a more mature, sane and safe world. =   For everyone.)    ? If lessons are not learnt and attitudes do not change, then the ; thousands of deaths on Tuesday could be completely in vain.t       John McLean    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 15:44:42 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)O Subject: [OpenVMS V7.2-1] SHOW USER/SUB sometimes doesn't show all subprocessesk* Message-ID: <3ba0b84a$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  3 I recently noted a problem on my VMScluster where ae  % 	$ SHOW USER/BATCH/FULL/INTER/NET/SUB   H didn't list all subprocesses. I didn't do any lengthy tests, because I'mI back from vacation and have a long list to do (and even a OpenVMS upgrade * to V7.3 is on it on a prominent position).  K But I did notice it, because it have been 2 of my own subprocesses on local I node (1st was a SPAWNed NETSCAPE. 2nd was a MPEG_PLAY created by NETSCAPEiJ which looped and I wanted to STOP/ID= it) weren't listed, while many otherG (sub)processes got listed as expected (SHOW SYSTEM listed all of them).i  O Seems, one of my lately installed ECOs (VMS721_AUDSRV V1.0, VMS721_LIBRTL V3.0,eM VMS721_MANAGE V2.0, VMS721_RMS V2.0, VMS721_SYS V10.0 und VMS721_UPDATE V3.0)i is the culprit.g   Am I alone ?   -- l< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2001 19:30:08 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>:S Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.2-1] SHOW USER/SUB sometimes doesn't show all subprocessestH Message-ID: <y4sndrvw0v.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  G If the subprocess is in fact a detached process, that might explain it.r: Or does a SHOW PROCESS listing show it is in the job tree?   	Jan   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.510 ************************