1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 523       Contents: alpha server ds10  Re: alpha server ds10  Alphaserver 8400 Re: Autogen phases ??  Re: Autogen phases ??  Re: DEC 3000-600 won't power up  Re: Decnet Copy problem  Re: Decnet Copy problem  Re: Decnet Copy problem  Re: Decnet Copy problem  Re: Decnet Copy problem 
 F$CVUI Syntax  Re: F$CVUI Syntax N Re: Floating Point (was: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?8 Hardware support link in VMS FAQ wrong, where to go now?< Re: Hardware support link in VMS FAQ wrong, where to go now? Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS  Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS 5 It's getting to that point - BASIC programmers needed 9 Re: It's getting to that point - BASIC programmers needed 9 Re: It's getting to that point - BASIC programmers needed 0 Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.10 Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.10 Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.10 Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1" Re: New company to be called "HP". Re: OT: World Trade Center Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center   Re: Performce of Java on OpenVMS5 Re: Problems with DECC SMG routines and Alpha VMS 7.3 & Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage& Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage& Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage& Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 5 Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?  Re: We are back from CETS  Re: We are back from CETS  Re: We are back from CETS  Re: We are back from CETS  Re: We are back from CETS  Which file to change!  Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 08:42:20 +1200 & From: A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> Subject: alpha server ds102 Message-ID: <01C14342.7EA48BE0@PATRICK.FSC.COM.FJ>  v Standalone boot is Ok for this machine.  The problem is when I connect it to the network, it creates bugcheck dump...   + The error is "Error mounting system device"   - any help/suggestions is very much appreciated    ab   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:18:16 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: alpha server ds101 Message-ID: <sY7q7.371$YP.16020@news.cpqcorp.net>   [ In article <01C14342.7EA48BE0@PATRICK.FSC.COM.FJ>, A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> writes:  : H :Standalone boot is Ok for this machine.  The problem is when I connect 0 :it to the network, it creates bugcheck dump...  : , :The error is "Error mounting system device"  H   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for the sorts of details that we need when    posting questions.     I'll ask here...     OpenVMS version?  3   Details of the SCSI or IDE storage configuration?   $   Details of the target system disk?  =   Is this "network" you are connecting to an OpenVMS Cluster?   G   I will assume the error message being reported is "%SYSINIT-E- error  (   mounting system device, status=value".  F   This SYSINIT error normally includes a (hexadecimal) status code, a C   status code which points more directly to the particular problem.   J   To translate the hexadecimal condition value into a text error message, A   please use sometime similar to one of the following approaches:        $ EXIT %Xvalue       $ MSG = f$message(%Xvalue)     $ SHOW SYMBOL MSG   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:19:40 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Alphaserver 8400 * Message-ID: <3BA90BEC.95D294A3@virgin.net>  F Can anyone tell me when the Alphserver 8400 was last orderable as new?A We've had  a proposal from a well known worldwide IT outfit which F involves an AS8400 (with four 5/625 processors ) specified as new. I'dA expected an ES40 (four processor 6/833) to be proposed or maybe a * GS80. Some dates would help me query this.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:18:30 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: Autogen phases ??1 Message-ID: <Wj5q7.352$YP.15851@news.cpqcorp.net>   Z In article <9oai9u$7qs3@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com> writes:L >What is the sequence of the start phase and end phase of the autogen when I >try to downsize my machine?  4 As already suggested, start by reading the output of @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN HELP  : You will probably want to clean out most of the entries in your MODPARAMS.DAT file(s).    --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:00:06 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Autogen phases ??1 Message-ID: <aP6q7.367$YP.15983@news.cpqcorp.net>   Z In article <9oai9u$7qs3@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com> writes:L :What is the sequence of the start phase and end phase of the autogen when I :try to downsize my machine?  K http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6017/6017pro_066.html#und_autogen     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:11:53 -0400 < From: Stephen Eickhoff <""operagost\"@e-mail.com (remove -)>( Subject: Re: DEC 3000-600 won't power up. Message-ID: <Ruaq7.781$8h4.12596@news.abs.net>   jason andrade wrote:  / >Stephen Eickhoff <operagost@email.com> writes:  > K >>I have one of these babies that hasn't been turned on for at least three  H >>years. I don't even get any lights or fans when I flip the switch. Is F >>there some sort of power interlock I should be looking for? Failing E >>that, can anyone give me hints on swapping the power supply from a  F >>working 400 I have into this unit? I think the extra speed would be  >>worth it.  >> > H >the power supplies do die - i've had to transplant a few between 3400s. > F >yes, the extra speed is noticeable - 133Mhz vs 175Mhz (30% faster..). >  > D >it's pretty simple to swap the power supplies - i haven't done thisE >for a while, but i think there's one or more screws which hold it in A >place and a few things it plugs into (motherboard, devices etc).  > ; >just document what was plugged into where and do the swap.  > G Looks like there's only a few dissimilar modular connectors. Should be  E easy: except my allen wrenches all fall too big or too small for the   screws holding it in. Grrr...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:35:58 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>  Subject: Re: Decnet Copy problem+ Message-ID: <VA.0000044d.105bc702@sture.ch>   B In article <9o8m83$dke1@imsp212.netvigator.com>, VMS Novice wrote: > I have added the line"M > IF F$MODE = "NETWORK" then EXIT in SYLOGIN, but the decnet copy still fail.  > ! Common mistake. That should read:   # IF F$MODE .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT            ^^^^^  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:41:41 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>   Subject: Re: Decnet Copy problem2 Message-ID: <QF5q7.29036$Z2.402303@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  - "Paul Sture" <paul@sture.ch> wrote in message % news:VA.0000044d.105bc702@sture.ch... D > In article <9o8m83$dke1@imsp212.netvigator.com>, VMS Novice wrote: > > I have added the line"I > > IF F$MODE = "NETWORK" then EXIT in SYLOGIN, but the decnet copy still  fail.  > > # > Common mistake. That should read:  > % > IF F$MODE .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT  >...   Actually  ' $ IF F$MODE() .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT    will work a lot better :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:47:48 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)  Subject: Re: Decnet Copy problem; Message-ID: <3ba8e854.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ( Carl Perkins (carl@gerg.tamu.edu) wrote:+ > "VMS Novice" <best@hotmail.com> writes...  > }I have added the line" N > }IF F$MODE = "NETWORK" then EXIT in SYLOGIN, but the decnet copy still fail. > M > The way it is written above, you are trying to use the symbol F$MODE (which O > is probably not defined) instead of evaluating the lexical function F$MODE(). D > Note that the trailing "()" is required to make it be the lexical.  C And the relational operator for string comparison is .EQS. , not =. 8 So it should read: IF F$MODE() .EQS. "NETWORK" THEN EXIT   cu,    Martin --  D                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de E  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 08:20:06 +0800 ' From: "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com>   Subject: Re: Decnet Copy problem0 Message-ID: <9obcg3$krj5@imsp212.netvigator.com>  H But the DECnet Copy still fail even I have change to the correct syntax.  8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message, news:QF5q7.29036$Z2.402303@nnrp1.uunet.ca.../ > "Paul Sture" <paul@sture.ch> wrote in message ' > news:VA.0000044d.105bc702@sture.ch... F > > In article <9o8m83$dke1@imsp212.netvigator.com>, VMS Novice wrote: > > > I have added the line"K > > > IF F$MODE = "NETWORK" then EXIT in SYLOGIN, but the decnet copy still  > fail.  > > > % > > Common mistake. That should read:  > > ' > > IF F$MODE .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT  > >... > 
 > Actually > ) > $ IF F$MODE() .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT  >  > will work a lot better :)  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2001 20:52:02 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Decnet Copy problem3 Message-ID: <RMtfh9v2p7S9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   < And what is the error in the log file on the remote system ?  Z In article <9obcg3$krj5@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <chehon@netvigator.com> writes:J > But the DECnet Copy still fail even I have change to the correct syntax. > : > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message. > news:QF5q7.29036$Z2.402303@nnrp1.uunet.ca...0 >> "Paul Sture" <paul@sture.ch> wrote in message( >> news:VA.0000044d.105bc702@sture.ch...G >> > In article <9o8m83$dke1@imsp212.netvigator.com>, VMS Novice wrote:  >> > > I have added the line" L >> > > IF F$MODE = "NETWORK" then EXIT in SYLOGIN, but the decnet copy still >> fail. >> > >& >> > Common mistake. That should read: >> >( >> > IF F$MODE .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT >> >...  >> >> Actually  >>* >> $ IF F$MODE() .EQS. "NETWORK" then EXIT >> >> will work a lot better :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:02:16 +0100 $ From: "Paul Lowe" <lowe@clara.co.uk> Subject: F$CVUI Syntax5 Message-ID: <XY5q7.68620$y_3.4991153@nnrp3.clara.net>   I I wrote a DCL command file several years ago to convert a series of ASCII J values to their character counterpart.  I've long-since left the company IH wrote the code for, and need to rewrite it, but can't remember how I didD it!  can F$CVUI convert an ASCII value to its character counterpart?I I know that F$CVUI(0,8,"A") will give its ASCII value - whats the reverse  syntax?    Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2001 14:05 PDT + From: rankin@eql14.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)  Subject: Re: F$CVUI Syntax1 Message-ID: <19SEP200114053576@eql14.caltech.edu>   6 In article <XY5q7.68620$y_3.4991153@nnrp3.clara.net>,\)  "Paul Lowe" <lowe@clara.co.uk> writes... K > I wrote a DCL command file several years ago to convert a series of ASCII L > values to their character counterpart.  I've long-since left the company IJ > wrote the code for, and need to rewrite it, but can't remember how I didF > it!  can F$CVUI convert an ASCII value to its character counterpart?K > I know that F$CVUI(0,8,"A") will give its ASCII value - whats the reverse 	 > syntax?   8 $ X = "."	!make a symbol containing a string of length 1@ $ X[0,8] = 65	!store 8 bits of data into it starting at offset 0 $ show symbol X 	   X = "A"   2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:15:34 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)W Subject: Re: Floating Point (was: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ? 1 Message-ID: <G17q7.369$YP.15874@news.cpqcorp.net>   g In article <Q16q7.361$YP.15704@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Gaitan D'Antoni" <gaitan.dantoni@compaq.com> writes: 9 :"Phil Mendelsohn" <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message C :> Is H_float an omission, or equivalent to S, T, or X?  Does "deal M :> with" mean preserve precision, or "we know best how to round you into IEEE  :> format, trust us" ?  E   H float was not implemented in hardware on most VAX systems, and is /   not implemented in hardware on Alpha systems.   J   IEEE X is also not in hardware on Alpha nor on (IIRC) any current IA-64    platforms.  H   IEEE S and T are (mostly) in hardware on Alpha and on IA-64 platforms.  I   The IA-64 floating point registers have more bits (mantissa/significand H   and exponent) than any single- or double-precision VAX floating point    value.  I   If you have specific concerns, please raise them here or via email and  G   we will evaluate them during the design processes -- we want to make  I   dealing with any required floating point conversions as transparent as  	   we can.   I   If you want full binary data portability across various platforms, you  I   may/will want to convert the binary data over to text for the transfer. K   Alternatively, IEEE binary S and T floats are likely reasonably portable. H   (Another related binary data portability concern involves endian-ness.H   There are some interesting endian-related switches in IA-64, and some H   operating systems can apparently run fully bi-endian, with the setting#   selected on a per-process basis.)     H :I specifically did not include H_float in my slide because as of now weM :don't plan to support it on IPF. "Deal with" means that we expect to provide H :some combination of RTL, system service calls, compiler-generated code,J :etc... to do the conversions. We haven't worked all of the implementationL :details yet so I don't know if there are any conversion scenarios that will :result in a loss of precision.     H   To continue, we are working on compiler- and RTL-level mechanisms for G   floating point conversions.  When we have more specific statements on H   the floating point precision issues, we will provide them.  We expect J   to be able to provide this and other similar details prior to the first D   release of OpenVMS on IA-64 platforms (currently expected 2003H1).  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:39:09 -0400 # From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com> A Subject: Hardware support link in VMS FAQ wrong, where to go now? / Message-ID: <9oaoo8$kcv$1@license1.unx.sas.com>    In the VMS FAQ, SUPP2 says= Where can I get hardware self-maintenance support assistance? K The Compaq Assisted Services program is available to customers that wish to C maintain their own systems (self-maintenace), but that require some J assistance with acquiring hardware diagnostics, hardware manuals, and with hardware swaps and spares:%   http://www.digital.com/info/DAHOME/t  : As far as I can tell, this link doesn't go anywhere.  Does> anyone know where or how it has been superceded?  Specifically@ I'm trying to find the hardware diagnostic program for VAX CPUs,& which I believe is called HCORE.EXE...   --, Tom Cole, diagnostically challenged VAX user tom.cole@sas.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:02:34 GMT?2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: Hardware support link in VMS FAQ wrong, where to go now?t1 Message-ID: <uR6q7.368$YP.15741@news.cpqcorp.net>   U In article <9oaoo8$kcv$1@license1.unx.sas.com>, "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com> writes:a   :In the VMS FAQ, SUPP2 saysl> :Where can I get hardware self-maintenance support assistance?L :The Compaq Assisted Services program is available to customers that wish toD :maintain their own systems (self-maintenace), but that require someK :assistance with acquiring hardware diagnostics, hardware manuals, and withd :hardware swaps and spares:W& :  http://www.digital.com/info/DAHOME/  $   http://www.compaq.com/CAS-Catalog/  ; :As far as I can tell, this link doesn't go anywhere.  Does ? :anyone know where or how it has been superceded?  SpecificallyoA :I'm trying to find the hardware diagnostic program for VAX CPUs, ' :which I believe is called HCORE.EXE...q  F   Please remember to send along any corrections or suggestions for theE   OpenVMS FAQ to the bit-head that maintains the FAQ.  (Said bit-headC(   already has this correction, however.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:59:43 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>$ Subject: Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS? Message-ID: <20010919175943.3604.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>g   Well  . I imagine much more integration of OpenVMS and	 OpenView. 3 It was just an opinion ... in fact there is nothing 6 regardin OVMS in this article. But I believe everybody  3 in this news group should accept the merge and works for improve OpenVMS inside HP.   Regardst   FC=20a- --- Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote:A- > What does this article have to do with VMS?S >=20 > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >=20. > > I believe OpenVMS will have a shine future
 > > in HP. > >=20	 > > Click. > >=20 > >e >r= http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7215728.html?tag=3Dcd_mhF > >=20 > >=20 > >=20' > > Management software key to HP plansn > > By Stephen Shankland > > Staff Writer, CNET News.com % > > September 18, 2001, 10:40 a.m. PTn3 > > Hewlett-Packard's planned acquisition of Compaqi1 > > Computer has cast the spotlight on a drab butr4 > > increasingly important--and profitable--piece of5 > > management software used to administer everythingt > from& > > phone networks to storage systems. > >=204 > > OpenView, HP's banner product in the $20 billion5 > > management software market, already ties togethera2 > > disparate products from HP's product line. New2 > > enhancements mean it can be extended to Compaq/ > > products, better joining the two companies'l	 > product 4 > > lines and letting OpenView piggyback on Compaq's > heavy-* > > presence in the Windows server market. > >=201 > > In a recent memo on HP's planned acquisition,e > Compaq0 > > Chief Executive Michael Capellas singled out
 > OpenView5 > > as a "vital part" of the company's plans, fillingH > aS5 > > major gap in Compaq's ability to tie together allz > thec. > > components of a large customer's computing > > infrastructure.4	 > > (...)r > >=20 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DnM > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D > > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilr > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brM > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=. =3D=3D > >=206 > > __________________________________________________1 > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? - > > Donate cash, emergency relief information  > > 7 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/b     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Braziln fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dt  2 __________________________________________________- Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?E) Donate cash, emergency relief informationo7 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:43:17 +0200S From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3BA90364.5E7DA39D@home.nl>m  ! I love this quote in the article:'  G "When Digital was in its mode of burning the furniture, they got rid of  all the softwareH businesses," he said. "By the time they were bought by Compaq, there was
 nothing left.7    G "burning the furniture", a very nice way to describe way mr. Palmer ranm Digital.         Fabio Cardoso wrote:  , > I believe OpenVMS will have a shine future > in HP. >o > Clicko > = > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7215728.html?tag=cd_mha >o >o >3% > Management software key to HP plans  > By Stephen Shankland > Staff Writer, CNET News.com-# > September 18, 2001, 10:40 a.m. PTo1 > Hewlett-Packard's planned acquisition of Compaqn/ > Computer has cast the spotlight on a drab butp2 > increasingly important--and profitable--piece of8 > management software used to administer everything from$ > phone networks to storage systems. >-2 > OpenView, HP's banner product in the $20 billion3 > management software market, already ties togethero0 > disparate products from HP's product line. New0 > enhancements mean it can be extended to Compaq5 > products, better joining the two companies' producta8 > lines and letting OpenView piggyback on Compaq's heavy( > presence in the Windows server market. >e6 > In a recent memo on HP's planned acquisition, Compaq7 > Chief Executive Michael Capellas singled out OpenViewl5 > as a "vital part" of the company's plans, filling ah7 > major gap in Compaq's ability to tie together all the , > components of a large customer's computing > infrastructure.  > (...)  >  > =====r > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilz > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== >a4 > __________________________________________________/ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?h+ > Donate cash, emergency relief informationi9 > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:59:40 -0700i3 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>t> Subject: It's getting to that point - BASIC programmers needed> Message-ID: <190920011059405136%spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>  < My company, PageWeavers, uses the OSU webserver on Alpha VMS= to build ecommerce websites for small to mid-sized Sacramento0G California businesses. We're reaching the point where I need some help!m  B The skill sets that I need are specific: our server-side stuff is < written using BASIC and RMS files (with some minor DCL). Our= webserver is Dave Jones' fine OSU package. For SSL traffic we = use Purveyor (but are looking converting to CSWS RSN). If you > are a wiz at configuring OSU and/or CSWS that's a plus but not, a requirement. C programming is also a plus.  9 We'll begin with small contract-type jobs with a mutually5: agreed fixed price. If we work well together expect growth< and a steadier flow of work. You may use your own gear or we< can provide telnet access to a development system as needed.  B If you're interested, please drop me a note. To get a feel for the< kind of work we do, visit our website at www.pageweavers.com   Thanks for your time,l     -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers vms@PageWeavers.com.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:48:38 +0000 (UTC)t' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) B Subject: Re: It's getting to that point - BASIC programmers needed+ Message-ID: <9ob3rm$eb9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   t In article <190920011059405136%spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>, David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com> writes:= >My company, PageWeavers, uses the OSU webserver on Alpha VMSh> >to build ecommerce websites for small to mid-sized SacramentoH >California businesses. We're reaching the point where I need some help! >oC >The skill sets that I need are specific: our server-side stuff is  = >written using BASIC and RMS files (with some minor DCL). Ouri> >webserver is Dave Jones' fine OSU package. For SSL traffic we> >use Purveyor (but are looking converting to CSWS RSN). If you? >are a wiz at configuring OSU and/or CSWS that's a plus but nott- >a requirement. C programming is also a plus.a >e  < Any reason why you aren't using SSL with the OSU webserver ?@ There are good descriptions of how to set it up with openssl on  Robert Byer's pages at  E http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/openssl/openssl_contents.html-  -
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:24:53 -0700 3 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>tB Subject: Re: It's getting to that point - BASIC programmers needed> Message-ID: <190920011924533891%spencer@spaamfree.recneps.com>  ? > >My company, PageWeavers, uses the OSU webserver on Alpha VMSo@ > >to build ecommerce websites for small to mid-sized SacramentoJ > >California businesses. We're reaching the point where I need some help! > >dE > >The skill sets that I need are specific: our server-side stuff is e? > >written using BASIC and RMS files (with some minor DCL). Ourl@ > >webserver is Dave Jones' fine OSU package. For SSL traffic we@ > >use Purveyor (but are looking converting to CSWS RSN). If youA > >are a wiz at configuring OSU and/or CSWS that's a plus but not-/ > >a requirement. C programming is also a plus.m > >g > > > Any reason why you aren't using SSL with the OSU webserver ?B > There are good descriptions of how to set it up with openssl on  > Robert Byer's pages at > G > http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/openssl/openssl_contents.html, >  n > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  C I'm running a commercial enterprise. If I recall correctly, they'rev@ some legal barriers to using the SSL layer on OSU for my type of operation, not technical.e     -- Dave Spencert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:35:58 +02008  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1I+ Message-ID: <VA.0000044e.105bc893@sture.ch>t  C In article <3BA8B2D4.9040508@compaqnospam.com>, Mark Schafer wrote:u > Vance, > F > I suspect it's due to Java.  The new J2SDK uses dynamic heap memory I > allocation.  I had to raise PGFLQUO on all the accounts on the OpenVMS e0 > Java TestDrive.  I think that was new in V7.2. > H There were a load of pthreads patches with the various versions of Java = leading up to V7.2. They may well have affected the decision.a >  > Vance R. Haemmerle wrote:i > B > > Subject says it all, the next version of Mozilla (0.9.5?) willC > > require V7.2-1 and above.  After the first release, M10 all theeC > > way through 0.6, 0.8, the 0.9 series VMS versions V7.1, et. al.F> > > including 7.1-2 were supported.  Mozilla 1.0 was so close. > >  > > More suckiness from Compaq.S > >  > > -- > > Vance Haemmerlet > > vance@alumni.caltech.edu > >- >-   ___-
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandS   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:53:20 GMT:' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>19 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1.- Message-ID: <3BA8F724.F4590E9D@theblakes.com>c  B How many people are still on 7.1-2? Is it still in wide use? Prior& version support for it ends this year.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:59:15 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)w9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1r0 Message-ID: <00A024C5.A427709E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <3BA8F724.F4590E9D@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:aC >How many people are still on 7.1-2? Is it still in wide use? Priori' >version support for it ends this year.   J I am and I also have one box running UCX 4.2.  The latter because it has a( feature that was dropped in TCP/IP V5.0. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMF             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 SEP 2001 01:20:41 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1r6 Message-ID: <20SEP01.01204145@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  > system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:  , -> Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:E ->>How many people are still on 7.1-2? Is it still in wide use? Priors) ->>version support for it ends this year.l -> oL ->I am and I also have one box running UCX 4.2.  The latter because it has a* ->feature that was dropped in TCP/IP V5.0.  G Hi Brian. Which feature is that? They've restored several "features" in D V5.1 that V5.0 dropped. The lack of SYS$REM_ID in V5.0 was one of my< show stoppers and the only reason for me to keep UCX around.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2001 14:02:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i+ Subject: Re: New company to be called "HP". 3 Message-ID: <SkChwBnZXg9j@eisner.encompasserve.org>n   In article <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF054@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>, John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> writes:v > Statement from HP says:oL > "We expect to complete the merger in the first half of next year and, when: > completed, we will then do business under the HP name. " > I saw this on The Register.A  4 That was part of the initial group of announcements.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:50:43 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> # Subject: Re: OT: World Trade Centern* Message-ID: <3BA90523.1BB6451D@virgin.net>   John Vottero wrote:r  M > One tactic was to look at who had people call the airline to check on them. I > If no one called to see if you were on the plane, you became a suspect.   N I repeat this only because it was broadcast and not to say it is true but. ITNM News in the UK (6:30pm  Wednesday) had a clip of an interview with the fatherdM of one of the named hijacker pilots (Atta? Purely from memory haven't checkedeN so name could be wrong). He said that his son had phoned him two days later toL tell him he was safe but would not tell him where he was. Perhaps his fatherI just couldn't accept his son could have done this. In any case his father0: appeared genuinely shocked and upset at what had happened.  L I guess the authorities will also be investigating the possibility that someD terrorists may have switched identities to hamper the investigation.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:36:55 -0400f' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>-( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center( Message-ID: <9oaohb$mfa$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Mvg+uKJeb4hV@eisner.encompasserve.org...iL > In article <9o99t4$9s5$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:e > >  >pF > >> To my (admittedly limited) knowledge, the U.S. does not foment or, > >> support terrorism. Neither does Canada. > >(J > > The kinds of things some U.S. citizens like you and Rob have suggested couldsK > > be considered realistic (though perhaps 'regrettable') options, such asgJ > > turning Afghanistan into a heap of glowing rubble, qualify as 'raining downI > > indiscriminate terror' in the minds of civilized people.  But I agreei that IB > > don't know of any similar sentiments from North of our border. > >e >C> > I have not and will not advocate what you stick above.  ThatA > is *very* disingenuous of you Bill.  There was minor collateral = > damage in Iraq and it showed up on the evening news.  A fewfE > smart bombs weren't so smart and regrettably innocents died.  A fewt@ > folks were unfortunate enough to be crossing bridges when they= > were bombed.  But the vast majority of action occurred away.A > from civilians and at night with F-117 and the like to minimizeI > civilian casualties.  ? Let's examine your concept of 'minimizing civilian casualties':s  I 9/13:  "I anticipate 4-6 months of cruise missiles, smart bombs and B-52seI prior to the mopping up."  Against a few hundred terrorists?  That soundscA more like saturation-bombing against a civilian population to me.t  F 9/13:  "Watch and wait.  Watch and wait.  I suspect that the Gulf  WarC effort may become a walk in a park in comparison."  Another massivenJ over-reaction if only terrorists (or even the formal Afghan military, such8 as it is) are the target:  they must really be Supermen.  I 9/14:  "Of course the difference is you have to keep them pinned down forrG 6-12+ months, hammer all trade routes to and from ... When/if an actioniJ occurs irregardless of who it is, expect many months of stand off launchesH and A10 and Apache harrassment of pack mule resupplies, etc."  CertainlyE enough for 100K casualties at least:  just who do you think they are?o  K 9/15, responding to my statement that "The problem with the suggestion that-? we can somehow just kill *everyone* who might object to such anoH indiscriminate response is that for every uninvolved party you kill, theJ rest of their family and circle of friends is likely to get rather upset":  K "This is silly ...  In a war, you don't stop at nothing.  A boxing match isaK ended of your opponent is severely injured and looks like he is headed thate! way.  This isn't a boxing match."n  J 9/16:  "But the vicious circle that could result wasn't/isn't something weL asked for.  We can pretty much be certain that 1-2 years from now terroristsK *won't* be operating out of Afghanisitan (assuming no infrastructure at alliH is left).  That's a nasty conclusion ... The sad thing is that innocentsH will suffer."  Nasty and sad indeed, but apparently acceptable to you as' long as you express appropriate regret.=  L 9/17:  "...whoever does whatever they do they will surely understand that weL will be hard after them and it will no doubt be far worse than anything theyK do here."  You never did explain exactly how it could be far worse (without.H inflicting heavy civilian casualties to make it so) when I called you on	 that one.h  I 9/17:  "Tell us the humane thing to do.  Tell us about the humane acts of J Sept. 11th.  Inhumane would be more descriptive."  Which appears to you to1 mean it's therefore all right to respond in kind.w  J 9/17, responding to "Wiping out the pitiful Taliban government, such as it5 is, won't make the area any more or less hospitable":o  L "There is an airport.  There is electricity.  There are trucks larger than 1G ton in size.  There are bridges.  There are fuel depots.  There is cellpI phone communications, etc."  All of which the civilian population dependsm9 upon a good deal more than bin Laden's organization does.i    G You haven't contemplated the use of nuclear weapons against the massivewJ Afghan threat:  I used that example because the person I was responding toA directly was Dave, who had.  But it's zealots like you, and thoseoG responsible for the attack on Sept. 11th, who give religion a bad name.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:51:06 GMT=# From: GreyCloud <mist@malarkey.com> ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center, Message-ID: <3BA8EA0D.43E35B3E@malarkey.com>   David Beatty wrote:  > H > On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 04:45:29 GMT, GreyCloud <mist@malarkey.com> wrote: > " > <most or previous posts snipped> > D > >Would it be possible to confiscate Bin Ladens funds??  The SEC isK > >investigating into those that knew in advance of the WTC and looking fors> > >those who intended to sell short to make money off of this. > < >     Possible but not wise strategically.  It appears there3 > were large put orders on both American and United 7 > within a week of the WTC/Pentagon attacks.  I've alsoo4 > heard an unconfirmed rumor that Bin Laden invested6 > in insurance regarding the WTC.  As a spokesman said9 > on CNN last night, follow the money trail and see whereU > it leads.  >   6 Quite true.  That was sort of what I was leading into.? Cool heads should take a very close look at the data.  Binnies'-8 money, for all that he has, is held in various places...? but I don't think he keeps it under his mattress.  By ferretingOA thru the records with some smart IT professionals we may possiblyt@ put a stop to terrorism... without money they won't even be ableD to buy a twinkie anywhere.  Arms sales is another lucrative businessB that should be discouraged, but I feel it will be a difficult task to stop arms sales.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:03:45 +0200a& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center* Message-ID: <3BA8FA21.7209EA13@dplanet.ch>   GreyCloud wrote: >  > David Beatty wrote:  > >eJ > > On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 04:45:29 GMT, GreyCloud <mist@malarkey.com> wrote: > >.$ > > <most or previous posts snipped> > > F > > >Would it be possible to confiscate Bin Ladens funds??  The SEC isM > > >investigating into those that knew in advance of the WTC and looking forf@ > > >those who intended to sell short to make money off of this. > >w> > >     Possible but not wise strategically.  It appears there5 > > were large put orders on both American and United 9 > > within a week of the WTC/Pentagon attacks.  I've also.6 > > heard an unconfirmed rumor that Bin Laden invested8 > > in insurance regarding the WTC.  As a spokesman said; > > on CNN last night, follow the money trail and see wheres
 > > it leads.d > >e > 8 > Quite true.  That was sort of what I was leading into.A > Cool heads should take a very close look at the data.  Binnies'l: > money, for all that he has, is held in various places...A > but I don't think he keeps it under his mattress.  By ferretingsC > thru the records with some smart IT professionals we may possibly B > put a stop to terrorism... without money they won't even be ableF > to buy a twinkie anywhere.  Arms sales is another lucrative businessD > that should be discouraged, but I feel it will be a difficult task > to stop arms sales._  E Now that's interesting.  There was a recent move - led by the Swiss InG think - to stop or greatly reduce arms sales throughout the world.  Ther@ idea was that a reduction in sales will should stop a lot of the violence and civil unrest.  G IRC, most countries supported the idea ... but the US voted against it.      John McLeang   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2001 15:41:17 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center3 Message-ID: <cemWYZ+tFo$E@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  R In article <9oaohb$mfa$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:Mvg+uKJeb4hV@eisner.encompasserve.org...rM >> In article <9o99t4$9s5$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>(	 > writes:k >> > >>G >> >> To my (admittedly limited) knowledge, the U.S. does not foment or'- >> >> support terrorism. Neither does Canada.i >> >K >> > The kinds of things some U.S. citizens like you and Rob have suggestedd > couldiL >> > be considered realistic (though perhaps 'regrettable') options, such asK >> > turning Afghanistan into a heap of glowing rubble, qualify as 'raining  > downJ >> > indiscriminate terror' in the minds of civilized people.  But I agree > that IC >> > don't know of any similar sentiments from North of our border.i >> > >>? >> I have not and will not advocate what you stick above.  That-B >> is *very* disingenuous of you Bill.  There was minor collateral> >> damage in Iraq and it showed up on the evening news.  A fewF >> smart bombs weren't so smart and regrettably innocents died.  A fewA >> folks were unfortunate enough to be crossing bridges when theyr> >> were bombed.  But the vast majority of action occurred awayB >> from civilians and at night with F-117 and the like to minimize >> civilian casualties.e > A > Let's examine your concept of 'minimizing civilian casualties':  > K > 9/13:  "I anticipate 4-6 months of cruise missiles, smart bombs and B-52spK > prior to the mopping up."  Against a few hundred terrorists?  That soundssC > more like saturation-bombing against a civilian population to me.  >   5 	Ummmm...  That is exactly the line-up and a similar C  	timeframe used in the Gulf War.  	 	Next....   H > 9/13:  "Watch and wait.  Watch and wait.  I suspect that the Gulf  WarE > effort may become a walk in a park in comparison."  Another massiverL > over-reaction if only terrorists (or even the formal Afghan military, such: > as it is) are the target:  they must really be Supermen. >   < 	Walk in the park because they are deep in the ground and inI 	very rough terrain.  The Iraqis were in the middle of the desert.  They eD 	might as well had targets painted on their equipment/men.  Next....    K > 9/14:  "Of course the difference is you have to keep them pinned down fordI > 6-12+ months, hammer all trade routes to and from ... When/if an actionoL > occurs irregardless of who it is, expect many months of stand off launchesJ > and A10 and Apache harrassment of pack mule resupplies, etc."  CertainlyG > enough for 100K casualties at least:  just who do you think they are?t >   1 	Where are you getting 100K casualties?  Next....t  M > 9/15, responding to my statement that "The problem with the suggestion thatnA > we can somehow just kill *everyone* who might object to such anlJ > indiscriminate response is that for every uninvolved party you kill, theL > rest of their family and circle of friends is likely to get rather upset": > M > "This is silly ...  In a war, you don't stop at nothing.  A boxing match isrM > ended of your opponent is severely injured and looks like he is headed thata# > way.  This isn't a boxing match."e >   A 	That's right.  You don't stop until one side surrenders and the	 B 	winning side gets to dictate terms of surrender.  Whether it getsA 	to that is not a certainty.  Whether our adminstration vacilatesl; 	and backs off from such a large anti-terrorist campaign ist> 	another thing.  However, public statements about "war against? 	terrorism" are still flittering about.  Perhaps as you suggestlA 	in other posts, the language is easing up.  I am not seeing thatl& 	, here is Rumsfield in today's paper:  
 Exec Summary:h  M        "We intend to put them on the defensive, to disrupt terrorist networkscM and remove their sanctuaries and their support systems," Rumsfeld said. "This $ will take a long, sustained effort."  C http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52744-2001Sep18.htmla  J    Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, alluding to the planning in both M countries, said the United States is preparing "a very broadly based campaign O to go after the terrorist problem where it exists." And in an indication of thefO breadth of military action being contemplated by the administration in response1K to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, Rumsfeld toldlD reporters that the U.S. military would "use the full spectrum of our capabilities."M        "I think of it in the sense of self-defense, and there is nothing thateF inhibits the United States of America from defending itself," Rumsfeld said.-M        While Pentagon officials stressed no decisions have been made, sourcessH said Rumsfeld and other senior officials are considering a wide range ofN options for attacking suspected terrorists and their supporters in AfghanistanL and elsewhere. Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia has been harboring SaudiO exile Osama bin Laden, who the U.S. government says is its prime suspect in theS3 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.jN        The options range from small-scale raids using Special Forces troops toM airstrikes and cruise missile barrages, officials said. In addition to direct M military action, the administration is considering a variety of intelligence,tE economic and diplomatic actions to disrupt terrorist networks and the : governments that support or tolerate them, officials said.M        "We intend to put them on the defensive, to disrupt terrorist networksPM and remove their sanctuaries and their support systems," Rumsfeld said. "This $ will take a long, sustained effort."L        The Pentagon's planning reflects some of the political and geographicM difficulties confronting the administration as it contemplates what PresidentSO Bush has called a new kind of war against a shadowy, stateless enemy. The planscJ are a radical departure from operations such as the 1991 Persian Gulf War,K which involved a massive buildup of troops and heavy weapons, and will relyr& instead on smaller, more mobile units.   Next....    L > 9/16:  "But the vicious circle that could result wasn't/isn't something weN > asked for.  We can pretty much be certain that 1-2 years from now terroristsM > *won't* be operating out of Afghanisitan (assuming no infrastructure at allpJ > is left).  That's a nasty conclusion ... The sad thing is that innocentsJ > will suffer."  Nasty and sad indeed, but apparently acceptable to you as) > long as you express appropriate regret.a >   B 	Come on.  Go out and read about what is being planned and talking? 	about.  President Bush is referred above and elsewhere saying:l  G "Bush has called a new kind of war against a shadowy, stateless enemy."n  ? 	You might be able to say I am jumping to conclusions.. when/if4C 	something takes place it won't be small and innocents will suffer.cF 	Not unlike Iraq were there a number of civilian casualties.  Not many? 	, but still there.   And yes, very regrettable.  Not nearly as A 	sad as the 5000+ that died in New York and Washington.  Next....     N > 9/17:  "...whoever does whatever they do they will surely understand that weN > will be hard after them and it will no doubt be far worse than anything theyM > do here."  You never did explain exactly how it could be far worse (withoutsJ > inflicting heavy civilian casualties to make it so) when I called you on > that one.k  ; 	That quote above was in response to John McLean who wrote:   G > Would sir like his next terorist attack to be biological or nuclear ?e   	I replied:c  G         I don't prefer flavors.  But whoever does whatever they do they:E         will surely understand that we will be hard after them and it >         will no doubt be far worse than anything they do here.   --  B 	A classic example of our British Champion's tactics.  Lift quotesB 	that are trimmed in such a manner to lose all context.  Nice try.? 	How could it be far worse?  The host country loses most thingst? 	resembling modern conveniences.  Bridges, fuel, power, etc. ast, 	you bring up below in another lift quote...  	 	Next....    > K > 9/17:  "Tell us the humane thing to do.  Tell us about the humane acts of L > Sept. 11th.  Inhumane would be more descriptive."  Which appears to you to3 > mean it's therefore all right to respond in kind.B >   F 	Don't expect direct civilian attacks like what happened on September D 	11th.  Our response will be far more measured.  But can you have a F 	humane war?  Kind?  No.  And no, we won't be responding in kind.  We C 	won't be deliberately murdering innocent civilians as a matter of dB 	policy, or you can surely expect the poll ratings to drop.  Poll?F 	Will of the people which is translated into their elected leadership.E 	And Nixon and crew finally got the message and troops were withdrawnn 	from Vietnam circa 1972.s    L > 9/17, responding to "Wiping out the pitiful Taliban government, such as it7 > is, won't make the area any more or less hospitable":i > N > "There is an airport.  There is electricity.  There are trucks larger than 1I > ton in size.  There are bridges.  There are fuel depots.  There is cellfK > phone communications, etc."  All of which the civilian population dependsv; > upon a good deal more than bin Laden's organization does.n >   B 	Perhaps the "civilian government" should have considered the longC 	term consequences of hosting Mr. Bin Laden.  They counted the cost A 	and went ahead anyhow.  Now it appears they may have made a very 5 	bad calculation, if you could call it that.  Next...c   > I > You haven't contemplated the use of nuclear weapons against the massive L > Afghan threat:  I used that example because the person I was responding toC > directly was Dave, who had.  But it's zealots like you, and thosemI > responsible for the attack on Sept. 11th, who give religion a bad name.o >   E 	Anyone that mentions nuclear in the context of any sort of response,i@ 	really should be ignored along the posts of "Bomb the Mosques."' 	Inflamed - poorly directed rhetoric.  a  F 	Zealotry?  Come on.  Just trying to deflect Leftist propaganda.  You B 	call that zealotry?  Why not go back and read some of those poll D 	results.  It isn't about zealotry,  It isn't about revenge.  It is  	about Justice.t  > 	Your idea of Justice would be to sit them down, talk to them,F 	educate them, listen to them.  Apparently, 80%+ of Americans say the + 	proper response is to strike back at them.    				Robc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:00:15 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center' Message-ID: <9ob0u3$hs$1@pyrite.mv.net>n  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:cemWYZ+tFo$E@eisner.encompasserve.org...o   ...   A > Zealotry?  Come on.  Just trying to deflect Leftist propaganda.i  K Rob, you're not just an idiot:  calling anything you disagree with 'leftist , propaganga' qualifies you as a real asshole.     YouoB > call that zealotry?  Why not go back and read some of those pollD > results.  It isn't about zealotry,  It isn't about revenge.  It is > about Justice.  L Bullshit.  Justice isn't a matter of polls, but of judgement.  Any group whoJ can give one set of answers for how a situation is likely to change in theI presence of a military response and a completely inconsistent set for how J it's likely to change in the absence of one isn't qualified to be listened to.    >s? > Your idea of Justice would be to sit them down, talk to them,dF > educate them, listen to them.  Apparently, 80%+ of Americans say the, > proper response is to strike back at them.  J And they're just as wrong as when a similar percentage were supporting ourI well-intentioned but ill-advised efforts in Vietnam.  But we'll fix that,I just as we did then.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2001 19:29:33 -0700& From: meetkrishnas@hotmail.com (krish)) Subject: Re: Performce of Java on OpenVMSn= Message-ID: <19e2ed27.0109191829.3fc06741@posting.google.com>i  [ Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3BA86015.65CC79AB@gtech.com>...o > krish wrote:I > > We have developed a GUI for one of our product using Java. When i waseI > > testing this GUI on an OpenVMS ALPHA7.2-1 with JVM 1.3.0, i found thesI > > performance to be abysmal.Every buttom click would take a few minuteseJ > > to respond and display the contents on the screen. I observed the sameI > > behaviour on all other JVM,like 1.2 flavours(our GUI required JVM 1.2nF > > or more).But,the same GUI when run on a Windows machine, perform's > > very efficiently.d > > H > > Initially my machine had a Physical memory of 64MB. Relating the badH > > GUI performance to the Physical memory constraint, i increased it toJ > > 96MB. But this did not prove any improvement. Subsequently i installed1 > > Java Fast VM for 1.3.0, but nothing improved.e > > @ > > I would appreciate if someone can advice me on any tuning orG > > improvement to the system, that will improve the performance of the  > > GUI. > 7 > How much memory in the Windows PC you compared with ?c >  > 128 MB ? 256 MB ?s > < > Both 64 and 96 MB RAM are way too little to do heavy Java. > ; > But since 64->96 did not even help, then you should firsto > try and check quotas.  >  > Java needs a lot of memory.a > ? > And normal VMS Alpha quotas which were fine for f.ex. VMS 6.2n > are just way too low.w >  > Arne  < Yes, i have been running my GUI on a 256MB windows machine.   B And I should not be comparing 64MB with 256MB. Since i dont have aD windows machine with 64MB RAM, i am trying to get one to compare the
 performce.  C I will get back to you folks once i do the testing on the 64MB RAM.a  ' Thanks for all you time and suggestion.a   -Krish   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:55:28 -0400h2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>> Subject: Re: Problems with DECC SMG routines and Alpha VMS 7.3* Message-ID: <3BA94C8F.10D1AB94@oracle.com>   jauffret wrote:  > 	 > Hi all,tF > we have an old tool with SMG$ routines (lang C) that runs with Alpha. > VMS 7.1.2 system and not with Alpha VMS 7.3. > Decc version is 6.0.) > Compilation option : "cc /STANDARD=VAXCa7 > /WARNING=(INF=UNINIT1,NOINF)/ASSUME=NOALIGNED_OBJECT/m > NOMEMBER_ALIGNEMENT /NOOPT": > F > The problem is that the routine smg$select_from_menu does'nt wait my	 > choice.r  - 	ummmm - I think that you'll need to be quited4 a bit more explicit about the problem.  what are the3 parameters being passed?  is there a return status?>   > ' > Perhaps, somebody knows this problem.  >  > Thanks for your help   --  > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:20:52 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usagen1 Message-ID: <oe6q7.365$YP.15956@news.cpqcorp.net>e  b In article <Xns91218AF0981Ajimv50NOSPAMcom@140.99.99.130>, Jim Valley <jim_v50@NOSPAM.com> writes:  N :Is there any way I can limit the PERCENTAGE of processor used by a process?   :eJ :I have a process that spikes every couple of minutes while it performs a I :query, but I'd like to limit it to use only 10% of the processor at any a :given time.  K   Yes.  OpenVMS V7.3 and later includes support for allocating percentages oG   of the available processor time to group(s) of application processes.rG   Control of this is via enhancements that were made to SYSMAN in V7.3.r  I   That said, I'd also look at simply dropping the process priority below  K   that of the other active processes, and let the application compete with  J   other (often higher priority) active processes for the available cycles.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:31:27 -0400n* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>/ Subject: Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usagem. Message-ID: <3BA8D66F.22643.ABF48C0@localhost>  P > :Is there any way I can limit the PERCENTAGE of processor used by a process?   > M >   Yes.  OpenVMS V7.3 and later includes support for allocating percentages eI >   of the available processor time to group(s) of application processes.dI >   Control of this is via enhancements that were made to SYSMAN in V7.3.i  E A tantalizing hint, but I wasn't able to find anything in the SYSMAN i/ documentation.  A little more detail, please...s     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671h1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147i= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comn   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2001 17:08:05 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a/ Subject: Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage 3 Message-ID: <7c3P5ZORMBC2@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  [ In article <3BA8D66F.22643.ABF48C0@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:mQ >> :Is there any way I can limit the PERCENTAGE of processor used by a process?    >>  N >>   Yes.  OpenVMS V7.3 and later includes support for allocating percentages J >>   of the available processor time to group(s) of application processes.J >>   Control of this is via enhancements that were made to SYSMAN in V7.3. > G > A tantalizing hint, but I wasn't able to find anything in the SYSMAN z1 > documentation.  A little more detail, please...a  = 	file:///VMSDOC073/v73/6620/6620pro_001.html#class_scheduling    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:35:59 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usagee1 Message-ID: <j59q7.373$YP.15975@news.cpqcorp.net>l  [ In article <3BA8D66F.22643.ABF48C0@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:rQ :> :Is there any way I can limit the PERCENTAGE of processor used by a process?  a :>  N :>   Yes.  OpenVMS V7.3 and later includes support for allocating percentages J :>   of the available processor time to group(s) of application processes.J :>   Control of this is via enhancements that were made to SYSMAN in V7.3. : G : A tantalizing hint, but I wasn't able to find anything in the SYSMAN  1 : documentation.  A little more detail, please...h     $ mc sysmano SYSMAN> help     Information available:  F   @          ALF        ATTACH     CLASS_SCHEDULE        CONFIGURATIONL   DEFINE     DISKQUOTA  DO         EXIT       IO         LICENSE    OverviewI   PARAMETERS RESERVED_MEMORY       SET        SHOW       SHUTDOWN   SPAWN F   STARTUP    SYS_LOADABLE          Sys_Parameters        Usage_Summary   Topic?    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:06:22 -0400 3 From: "Gaitan D'Antoni" <gaitan.dantoni@compaq.com> > Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?1 Message-ID: <Q16q7.361$YP.15704@news.cpqcorp.net>   8 "Phil Mendelsohn" <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote in messageB news:Pine.SOL.4.20.0109181217160.17428-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu...% > On 18 Sep 2001, Keith Parris wrote:u >dG > > In the CETS2001 session on "Porting OpenVMS Applications to Itaniuma/ > > Processor Family" there was a slide saying:e > >  > > "So, what's different? > >r > > * Floating-point data typess9 > >   - Itanium processor family supports IEEE float onlypH > >   - All compilers should be able to deal with F, D, G, S, T and X (S" > > and T are native IEEE formats)) > >   - Document forthcoming with detailst > >   - Tell us what you need" > >iC > > So it appears programs (and files) which use VAX floating-pointgH > > formats will be supported on Itanium.  Presumably there will be someH > > level of adverse performance impact, but things should at least work > > without converting to IEEE., >iB > Is H_float an omission, or equivalent to S, T, or X?  Does "dealL > with" mean preserve precision, or "we know best how to round you into IEEE > format, trust us" ?c >nG I specifically did not include H_float in my slide because as of now weeL don't plan to support it on IPF. "Deal with" means that we expect to provideG some combination of RTL, system service calls, compiler-generated code, I etc... to do the conversions. We haven't worked all of the implementationnK details yet so I don't know if there are any conversion scenarios that will  result in a loss of precision.   Gaitan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:14:48 -0400a* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>> Subject: Re: VMS To Be Squeezed Out Of HP's Strategic Vision ?) Message-ID: <3BA8EEA8.6050203@compaq.com>    Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > B > Is H_float an omission, or equivalent to S, T, or X?  Does "dealL > with" mean preserve precision, or "we know best how to round you into IEEE > format, trust us" ?n >  >   D As Brian and others mentioned, you don't have H_floating support on H Alpha today (actually VEST could translate and emulate H_floating) with C the compiler suite.  X_floating on Alpha today is totally software mE emulated.  We expect to provide the same level of support on Itanium n systems.   -- t John Reagant' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadero   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:35:57 -0400r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>l" Subject: Re: We are back from CETS2 Message-ID: <tA5q7.29034$Z2.401840@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   >...K > they come in to us. Also note that only attendees who actually registeredo> > for CETS 2001 will be able to access the presentation files. >...  I DECUS used to be about sharing information; now Compaq wants to only sellm information.  F If I send in my registration fee now, will you let me view the session notes?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:48:46 -0400t- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> " Subject: Re: We are back from CETS( Message-ID: <3BA8E887.E0822A1A@ohio.edu>   Sue,  L         I hope that in the not too distant future that the majority of theseO materials will be made available to everyone, or at least every DECUS^H^H^H^H^HsH Encompass member, not just those who expected to be able to attend CETS.                   RDPo     Sue Skonetski wrote:  ) > Just received this from the CETS folks.u >nN > Presentations from Compaq Enterprise Technical Symposium 2001 available now! > N > Many of the presentations that were given or were slated to be given at CETSI > 2001 are now available on line. Follow the directions below to find youuN > preferred presentations. Note that not all presentations are available; someN > speakers do not want their materials posted, and other speakers weren't ableN > to check in at the conference. We will continue to post new presentations asK > they come in to us. Also note that only attendees who actually registeredr> > for CETS 2001 will be able to access the presentation files. >bF > 1. Visit the portal site www.cets2001.com <http://www.cets2001.com>. >o > 2. Log in to the portal. >eC > 3. Select the option "Build My Schedule" from the left-hand menu.a >a) > 4. Select the option "Session Catalog."n > M > 5. You can search for specific sessions if you like, shortening the list of  > sessions to wade through.i >aN > 6. When you get the list of sessions, look for the document icon next to theM > session ID numbers. The sessions with that icon have presentation materialsd > posted on this portal. >hL > 7. Select your desired session and click on the document icon. This brings2 > up an index of files available for that session. >i+ > 8. Select the files you want to download.  >n > "    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2001 13:59:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: We are back from CETS3 Message-ID: <jxNteAVqSqu$@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  b In article <tA5q7.29034$Z2.401840@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:  K > DECUS used to be about sharing information; now Compaq wants to only sell  > information.  A Please do not blame Compaq for the actions of the CETS committee.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:07:27 +0200s& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>" Subject: Re: We are back from CETS* Message-ID: <3BA8FAFF.D1DD6771@dplanet.ch>  F Does this mean that the details of the VMS Alpha to IPF transition areF only available to the attendees at CETS and not to the rest of the VMS
 community ?     E Is this Compaq's way of looking after its loyal bunch of supporters ?h   John McLeans     Sue Skonetski wrote: > ) > Just received this from the CETS folks.  > N > Presentations from Compaq Enterprise Technical Symposium 2001 available now! > N > Many of the presentations that were given or were slated to be given at CETSI > 2001 are now available on line. Follow the directions below to find you N > preferred presentations. Note that not all presentations are available; someN > speakers do not want their materials posted, and other speakers weren't ableN > to check in at the conference. We will continue to post new presentations asK > they come in to us. Also note that only attendees who actually registered > > for CETS 2001 will be able to access the presentation files. > F > 1. Visit the portal site www.cets2001.com <http://www.cets2001.com>. >  > 2. Log in to the portal. > C > 3. Select the option "Build My Schedule" from the left-hand menu.e > ) > 4. Select the option "Session Catalog."a > M > 5. You can search for specific sessions if you like, shortening the list ofL > sessions to wade through.l > N > 6. When you get the list of sessions, look for the document icon next to theM > session ID numbers. The sessions with that icon have presentation materialsa > posted on this portal. > L > 7. Select your desired session and click on the document icon. This brings2 > up an index of files available for that session. > + > 8. Select the files you want to download.- >  > "    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 23:04:01 GMTv= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)9" Subject: Re: We are back from CETS0 Message-ID: <00A024C6.4ED4F157@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <3BA8FAFF.D1DD6771@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:  >iG >Does this mean that the details of the VMS Alpha to IPF transition arelG >only available to the attendees at CETS and not to the rest of the VMSr >community ?    H The details of the VMS Alpha to IPF transition weren't available to CETSH attendees either!  VMS engineering is _still_ exploring the requirementsI of the port.  Most of what you might have read here was also disseminatedtI in Anaheim.  Nothing was earth-shattering at CETS save for last Tuesday's  horrific event.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             tJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:14:34 +0530i$ From: "upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com> Subject: Which file to change!1 Message-ID: <uBdq7.378$YP.16078@news.cpqcorp.net>a   Hi ,: I am using a X windows emulator to connect to VMS machine.1 I am facing a problem with the following command.a  '   create/term/detach/wind=(x=100,y=100)r  H I have tested this scenario on couple of VMS machines.  On one of them IL have been able to position the decterm at the specified coordinates. WhereasJ on  another machine I am not able to position the decterm at the specified coordinate.t@ (Note I am using a X windows emulator to connect to VMS machine.B Both these machines use same version of DecWindows Motif and VMS.)  J  Is there any configuration that needs to be done on the VMS side for this1 command to work properly on an X Window emulator?c  F I strongly think that this problem is a configuration issue. Would you( please help us in resolving the problem?  
 With regards,B	 Upadhyaya    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:56:45 GMT # From: GreyCloud <mist@malarkey.com>i Subject: Re: World Trade Centerb, Message-ID: <3BA8EB60.7F42C588@malarkey.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > 2 > "GreyCloud" <mist@malarkey.com> wrote in message( > news:3BA82AE1.C6E9A06D@malarkey.com... >  > ...1 > = > > That petition.... I wouldn't recommend anyone signing it.nE > > Sort of like giving your name and phone number to a telemarketer.iF > > Only we wouldn't know who gets the list or for what real purposes. > > This one is scary. > M > While I suppose that signing could be an invitation to who knows what kindseN > of solicitations, I don't yet have a sufficiently jaundiced view of the U.S. > government to be *scared*. > L > But I didn't particularly agree with some of its wording, and I've already3 > sent Dubya a polite email expressing my concerns.     B I'd rather not be on anyones' list during these times.  I'm afraid8 that all of this may lead to another era of McCarthyism.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:07:53 -0400a% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>o Subject: Re: World Trade Centero/ Message-ID: <tqhr8d9i0omh65@news.supernews.com>u  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in message $ news:3BA82951.D3EE5F31@dplanet.ch... >  [snip] >lH > Any idea how the authorities decided who the 18 alleged hijackers wereF > ?  (I use the term alleged because it looks like there is some doubtE > about the young Palestinian.)  Were the surnames a give away or waso > there something else ? >h  K One tactic was to look at who had people call the airline to check on them. G If no one called to see if you were on the plane, you became a suspect.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:59:52 +0200e& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> Subject: Re: World Trade Center * Message-ID: <3BA8F938.908810C3@dplanet.ch>   Robert Deininger wrote:u > F > In article <3BA77A28.81EB68F3@dplanet.ch>, mcleanj@dplanet.ch wrote: > K > > No Jan, a lot of people in the USA are still busy living out the cowboypJ > > westerns of the 1950's.  (A reversion to childhood ideas ?)  They wantL > > to form a posse and hunt bin Laden down.  Wanted Dead or Alive.  If he'sE > > alive we'll try him and then hang him.  Maybe it really is just am! > > lynch-mob that we are seeing.  > F > Have you ever been to the U.S., asshole?  Recently?  Spend much timeK > here?  You act like you know the people, but your words prove that you do  > not. > H > You take cheap shots at an entire nation, based on what you see on TV?  F I respond to the media reports (CNN, NBC, BBC, The Times etc.) becauseF that is what is presented to us in Europe and to the rest of the world in general.e  H You're saying it's not a posse ?  The Bush Administration is busy tryingD to get support - in trrops or logistics - from all other countries. $ That's damn near a posse in my book.  F As Bill said, Dubya said, "You know the Dead or Alive posters from the! old West ?  Well it's like that."l  H Not a lynch-mob ?  You're joking !  The trail may lead towards bin LadenE but there remains some vital gaps that evidence cannot fill.  There'sb> other candidates being considered also, such a possible BagdadD connection or even an associate of bin Laden (but that still doesn'tH mean bL was involved).  Despite all this there's a vast number of people* in the USA who want to attack Afghanistan.  G The most dangerous man in the USA today appears to be Defense SecretarycF Rumfeld !  He's working very hard with the likes of CNN to ensure that there will be a war.     > K > > Underlying it all is their infallible (or infantile) righteousness thatsI > > they couldn't have possibly done anything to make people angry.  Theyi> > > believe such an idea to be to preposterous to contemplate. > L > Wrong.  It appears you've just described a typical European mentality, but1 > then I'm only going by what I read in the news.n  F So are you saying that I am wrong and that either the USA has examinedC its foreign policy and decided that it was completely justified andiH no-one could possibly be upset by it, or that the USA will examine it in the near future ?-   > I > > There's a few sane voices but they are being drowned out by those whoNG > > just want to shoot or bomb something somewhere and to hell with thea > > possible consequences. >  > Wrong.  G Oh come on !  I've seen reports of someone agitating for the marines tolF hit Pakistan, trash that country and then trash Afghanistan.  The restD of the Islamic countries are effectively saying "Try that and you'llF have us to contend with as well".  In case you haven't realised, theseE countries know that it would be stupid to fight a conventional battlefG against US forces and that terrorism would be their best option.  I bet C if they set their minds to it, the number of deaths last week couldr become insignificant.)  E Now you might think I am over-generalising American attitudes.  Sorry H but the media reports, coupled with postings to this newsgroup, indicateG that voices of reason are being shouted out in the clamour for military G action.  Some see it as a show of strength, others as a crusade, othersnG as retaliation.  They try to justify it every which way, but is still aMD demand that someone's blood be spilled somewhere and, according to a% certain faction, as soon as possible.s     John McLean3   > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com3   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 01:05:54 GMTs) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)f Subject: Re: World Trade Center 0 Message-ID: <3ba93dca.17600357@news.wcc.govt.nz>  D You want to enlighten me on what Treaty obligations NZ opted out of?    NZ participated in the Gulf War./ NZ has offered troops for the current conflict.   E Are you referring to the fact we refused to let Nuclear warships into : our nuclear free ports. The U.S. embargoed us as a result.F U.S. trade sanctions are still in place for some goods. The U.S. court: has ruled in NZ's favour but we're not holding our breath.  E On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:05:12 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  Deininger) wrote:   O >In article <3ba6a3e1.20248996@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote:W >  >TF >> New Zealand contributes to these escapades but has not yet been the+ >> target of an attack by fundamentalists. u ><I >NZ just walked away from its treaty obligations to the US.  I'm sorry toeK >report that that seems to have generated a LOT of bad feeling here, and it E >won't soon be forgotten.  In a sense, you've already surrendered.  I F >truely hope none of your thuggish neighbors cast a greedy eye in yourF >direction.  Your government has spit on one of your best friends, andA >we'll likely be slow to answer the phone the next time you call.e >uG >The main thing preventing a boycott of goods from NZ is that folks arepD >having trouble identifiying what you send us. Kiwi fruits have been= >suggested, but AFAIK, they are mostly home-grown these days.. >  >--  >Robert Deiningerr >rdeininger@mindspring.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.523 ************************