1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 530       Contents:" Re: Are there alpha 21264a 733mhz?& cancel <3BAA267A.83C2F2B5@t-online.de>  Re: Dynamic DNS with TCP/IP V5.1 Re: emacs for the alpha/vms # Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master # Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master D Re: In times like these ... OpenVMS now more than ever for security!D Re: In times like these ... OpenVMS now more than ever for security! Re: Really Unhackable...???? Re: Really Unhackable...???? Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX DOCUMENT( RE: VAX-Alpha Migration: COBOL/BASIC/FMS Re: Which file to change!  Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade CenterJ Re: [OpenVMS V7.2-1] SHOW USER/SUB sometimes doesn't show all subprocesses? [OpenVMS] V7.2 VAX satellite doesn't find V7.3 Alpha bootserver C Re: [OpenVMS] V7.2 VAX satellite doesn't find V7.3 Alpha bootserver   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:05:27 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>+ Subject: Re: Are there alpha 21264a 733mhz? ' Message-ID: <3BAD97C7.82A1C12E@home.nl>   F I think there are. If I'm not mistaken they are used in the Wildfires.   hlee5 wrote:   > Hello, > L > Are there alpha 21264A 733Mhz cpu? If exists, what kind mother board  this
 > cpu fit to?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:38:44 +0200 ' From: A Razzak <Razzak.dar@t-online.de> / Subject: cancel <3BAA267A.83C2F2B5@t-online.de> / Message-ID: <9okoqb$7oe$03$1@news.t-online.com>   / This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 11:22:49 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)) Subject: Re: Dynamic DNS with TCP/IP V5.1 * Message-ID: <3bada9e9$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  T In article <3BAB82C8.2D3F0B12@mail.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet@mail.com> writes:H >I've just got TCP/IP V5.1 running under VMS V7.3 and I'm trying out theI >dynamic DNS update feature of DHCP and BIND.  The dynamic setting of the E >client name is working.  After I boot a client, I see the IP address K >defined for the client's name in a DNS lookup.  The inverse lookup doesn't A >work though.  There is a related message in the DHCP server log:  > H >DHCPREQUEST(selecting) from HW 00:50:e4:25:20:5d for IP 172.16.9.0: new >lease; >DDNS failed to create 172.16.9.0 PTR pbg3.tridentusa.com :  > E >A "dig -x 172.16.9.0" returns a non-existant domain error.  The zone L >configuration in tcpip$bind.conf to allow updates is identical for both theG >forward and the reverse zone, i.e. tridentusa.com and 16.172.in-addr.  J >There's no related message in the BIND server log.  My .ddnskeys file has >127.0.0.1 for both entries: > " >tridentusa.com          127.0.0.1" >16.172.in-addr.arpa     127.0.0.1 > 5 >Has anyone tried the dynamic DNS update feature yet?    Not really.   H I did DDNS with TCPIP V5 BIND on both zones (forward and reverse) and itI worked and works. It only claims RFC standard violations by the ADS names G (M$ uses underscores in some names like the global catalog entries) and I some DDNS requests logged a protocol error (most likely a few NT5 service G records - but we didn't find any records missing for a working domain).   K I did also setup a DHCP servers just like you, but it was only a quick shot J for a few minutes (until the stopped-working primary DHCP server got movedI from a NT4 to a NT5 system) and I didn't check for all aspects. It gave 4 J clients an IP address to work with and that was at this time all I wanted.L I did config it with the editor and the GUI and I also don't remember seeingH DDNS updates to the reverse zones, but I haven't looked for them though.   HIH    --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:18:28 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> $ Subject: Re: emacs for the alpha/vms- Message-ID: <9oknf4$jmt$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   ? Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheon@nospamcompaq.com> wrote:  : Douglas Nichols wrote:  O :> Does anyone know where we/I can get a copy of emacs for the alpha machine? I H :> am quite fedup with the tpu editor, not that it is bad mind you. Just :> preference. :>	 :> thanks  :> dn   2 : I know GNU Emacs is available for OpenVMS Alpha.  P : Looks like http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/emacsv1928/ mightH : get you what you want.  This is the Freeware disk supplied by OpenVMS.  N : I haven't downloaded from here, so I can't give further instructions, sorry.  / Got binaries on ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/emacs.   , Download 00README and emacs.bck/emacs.bck.gz   --   -Roar    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 02:31:33 -07002 From: Kid_indestructable_au@yahoo.com (TrainKid31), Subject: Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your master= Message-ID: <cec19c18.0109230131.6479d934@posting.google.com>   ? And just like every other dick head that has tried to take over < something in the 20th century. You will fall and be nothing.F Have a great time taking over Usernet. Im shore we will all make other newsgroups elsewhere.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:34:52 +0900  From: tm <tmoero@yahoo.com> , Subject: Re: I am Adam H. Kerman your masterD Message-ID: <tmoero-7B1419.18345223092001@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp>  = In article <cec19c18.0109230131.6479d934@posting.google.com>, 4  Kid_indestructable_au@yahoo.com (TrainKid31) wrote:  A > And just like every other dick head that has tried to take over > > something in the 20th century. You will fall and be nothing.H > Have a great time taking over Usernet. Im shore we will all make other > newsgroups elsewhere.    heh.	 'Usernet'    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:43:25 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>M Subject: Re: In times like these ... OpenVMS now more than ever for security! + Message-ID: <VA.00000457.0598bfc6@sture.ch>   @ In article <3BACC312.D04468E5@fsi.net>, David J. Dachtera wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:  > > N > > In article <9oga81$l7r$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote:R > > > In article <01092113585882@lto.locktrack.com>,  <Lorin@LockTrack.com> wrote:A > > > : Yes, I do agree... at least as far as my server-side apps ? > > > : are concerned.  Unfortunately, many of us are forced by @ > > > : circumstances or other things to use Windows-crap on ourC > > > : desktops, at home, etc., so we're no more immune to generic C > > > : security concerns than anyone else.  For example, one of my D > > > : staff got nailed big-time by Nimba this week... cost: 3 daysG > > > : elapsed to erradicate/restore his desktop and get back to work, # > > > : actually nearly 6 man-days.  > > > : L > > > It's happening everywhere, all the time.  Add it up.  When you finally! > > > can't take it any more see:  > > > 0 > > >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/safe.html > > > ; > > Thanks for the link. I'll recommend that folks read it.  > > O > > On a related tack, I came across the following article on moving to a Linux Q > > desktop as a replacement for Windows. This guy actually did it, and saved his ? > > client money too: http://robval.com/linux/desktop/index.asp  > J > Great stuff, Paul! Good hunting! Many thanx for this link. Got any more? > ' I got the link from a slashdot thread:  ? http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/20/1451219&mode=thread   Q I haven't bothered reading the complete thread, but it appears the jury is still   out.  P My primary interest was in getting off Windoze at home, but still being able to S read Office stuff when necessary. I've had a few stabs at it before, but they were  P pretty unsatisfactory. Earlier versions of Star Office were simply not up to it P IMNSHO, but I am now able to read all the Word documents and Excel stuff I have P lying around (so far anyway), and it was a very pleasant surprise to be able to D read the Powerpoint presentations which Hoff put up on Friday night.  O I won't claim it was easy, and ploughing through all the FAQ, README and HOWTO  P files can be _very_ frustrating. I believe I've got a much better deal now I've S switched from Red Hat to SuSe Linux (no doubt some Linux die hards might disagree,  N but it suits me) - far superior documentation and the problem of dependancies O highlighted in the article is solved with friendly prompts by the installation  M program. Tons of utilities to explore, and here again, the SuSe installation  M program works a treat, creating the correct environment (users, directories,  0 crontab entries etc) when you install a utility.  Q I'm still running Windows in parallel, but am now anticipating being able to can  0 it completely in the very near future. Yessssss!  S Could I recommend it at work? Not yet (we do have a lot of in-house Windows apps),  ) but it does look a promising alternative.    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:36:07 -0400 . From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com>M Subject: Re: In times like these ... OpenVMS now more than ever for security! . Message-ID: <3BAE0167.8931C37C@cablespeed.com>  A You might also like to look at FreeBSD and the ports and packages C collection.  Extremely simple installation and all dependenices are H provided or built.  In addition, FreeBSD supplies a Linux emulation mode8 which allows Linux USER mode apps. to run under FreeBSD.   Chuck McCrobie   Paul Sture wrote:  > B > In article <3BACC312.D04468E5@fsi.net>, David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Paul Sture wrote:  > > > P > > > In article <9oga81$l7r$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote:T > > > > In article <01092113585882@lto.locktrack.com>,  <Lorin@LockTrack.com> wrote:C > > > > : Yes, I do agree... at least as far as my server-side apps A > > > > : are concerned.  Unfortunately, many of us are forced by B > > > > : circumstances or other things to use Windows-crap on ourE > > > > : desktops, at home, etc., so we're no more immune to generic E > > > > : security concerns than anyone else.  For example, one of my F > > > > : staff got nailed big-time by Nimba this week... cost: 3 daysI > > > > : elapsed to erradicate/restore his desktop and get back to work, % > > > > : actually nearly 6 man-days. 	 > > > > : N > > > > It's happening everywhere, all the time.  Add it up.  When you finally# > > > > can't take it any more see:  > > > > 2 > > > >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/safe.html > > > > = > > > Thanks for the link. I'll recommend that folks read it.  > > > Q > > > On a related tack, I came across the following article on moving to a Linux S > > > desktop as a replacement for Windows. This guy actually did it, and saved his A > > > client money too: http://robval.com/linux/desktop/index.asp  > > L > > Great stuff, Paul! Good hunting! Many thanx for this link. Got any more? > > ( > I got the link from a slashdot thread:A > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/20/1451219&mode=thread  > R > I haven't bothered reading the complete thread, but it appears the jury is still > out. > Q > My primary interest was in getting off Windoze at home, but still being able to T > read Office stuff when necessary. I've had a few stabs at it before, but they wereQ > pretty unsatisfactory. Earlier versions of Star Office were simply not up to it Q > IMNSHO, but I am now able to read all the Word documents and Excel stuff I have Q > lying around (so far anyway), and it was a very pleasant surprise to be able to F > read the Powerpoint presentations which Hoff put up on Friday night. > P > I won't claim it was easy, and ploughing through all the FAQ, README and HOWTOQ > files can be _very_ frustrating. I believe I've got a much better deal now I've T > switched from Red Hat to SuSe Linux (no doubt some Linux die hards might disagree,O > but it suits me) - far superior documentation and the problem of dependancies P > highlighted in the article is solved with friendly prompts by the installationN > program. Tons of utilities to explore, and here again, the SuSe installationN > program works a treat, creating the correct environment (users, directories,2 > crontab entries etc) when you install a utility. > R > I'm still running Windows in parallel, but am now anticipating being able to can2 > it completely in the very near future. Yessssss! > T > Could I recommend it at work? Not yet (we do have a lot of in-house Windows apps),+ > but it does look a promising alternative.  >  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland    --   --    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 09:40:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: Really Unhackable...???? 3 Message-ID: <RPATeZCVF4jA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <homr7.180$F44.82278@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  K >> I have no complaint with the book -- just with repeating the story about F >> "default passwords" on VMS 12 years later as if it were still true. >>  K > Agreed, he was referring to 'simple' passwords such as family names, pet  J > names and so on, love, password, etc...  My point was the system admins M > that left the default 'simple' and obvious passwords in place.  Of course,  I > many of those systems were maintained by people who had work to do and  G > administration of a VAX was something thrown at them by a University   > science dept or such.   G There are known unaddressed security defects in VMS V4.*, and I believe H most sites have advanced beyond those.  Any upgrade beyond those require; changing the former "default" values for certain passwords.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:32:45 GMT " From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>% Subject: Re: Really Unhackable...???? 8 Message-ID: <homr7.180$F44.82278@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  C > In article <7s1r7.72$nz6.116317@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>, Art Rice  > <arice@myhouse.org> writes:  >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >>  F >>> In article <yuXq7.1463$T%.693905@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Art Rice >>> <arice@myhouse.org> writes:  >>>> Jack Patteeuw wrote:  >>> J >>>>> The most common VMS hack is a "wet hack" (convincing a human to give >>>>> up a password orJ >>>>> using a simple password for important accounts).  Read the book "The >>>>> Kukoo's (sp?) + >>>>> Egg" about the "early days"  hacking.  >>>>>  >>>>> Jack Patteeuw  >>>>> G >>>> Ahhhh, The old 'default' passwords?  What surprises me is how many 7 >>>> people reset the passwords 'back' to the defaults.  >>> : >>> No, not default passwords -- he said simple passwords. >>> @ >>> VMS has not had any default passwords for the past 15 years. >>> E >>> Of course anyone who sets a password back to what it was 15 years  >>> ago is looking for trouble.  >>> H >> Well, back when that book was written there were quite a few VAX that >> stillL >> had the default SYSTEM, FIELD, and USER  passwords set.  And the title is) >> "The Cuckoo's Egg" first printed 1989.  > J > I have no complaint with the book -- just with repeating the story aboutE > "default passwords" on VMS 12 years later as if it were still true.  > I Agreed, he was referring to 'simple' passwords such as family names, pet  H names and so on, love, password, etc...  My point was the system admins K that left the default 'simple' and obvious passwords in place.  Of course,  G many of those systems were maintained by people who had work to do and  E administration of a VAX was something thrown at them by a University   science dept or such.    --   Art Rice Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------* All opinions are my own and do not reflect* the views of the above mentioned employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 06:29:28 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance23 Message-ID: <kdxdc6DgvsZm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3BAD0826.15420.F4C9333@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:m  C > The real issue is:  Do you want to invest money to prepare for a A > disaster?   ? No, the issues are "How _much_ do you want to invest to preparer? for a disaster?" and "In what directions?".  Any company with a @ fault tolerant cluster is already investing quite a bit.  ShouldA they go for a third site, or a duplicate trained staff, or whoat?e  @ Note that with three sites, if one gets destroyed, you are stillB in the same position with respect to reinvestment -- having to put> together a new site.  Whoever is looking for VAXen today wouldC still be looking for VAXen if their policy was to maintain 14 sitesi8 and one of them got destroyed, bringing them down to 13.  B Having a site get destroyed is actually much more rare than having it temporarily unusable.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 06:31:50 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance-3 Message-ID: <jPIcF+ZbmnML@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  [ In article <3BAD0826.15420.F4C9333@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes: 2 > On 22 Sep 2001, at 18:24, Larry Kilgallen wrote:I >> But when half of your disaster-tolerant cluster goes away permanently, I >> you need more machines to regain your disaster-tolerant cluster.  ThissG >> is true even if your processing continues uninterrupted, and even if- >> the cause was a hurricane.1 > H > Agreed.  You have some incentive to have at least one "extra" machine  > at each site.t  ? In the case of the World Trade Center, an extra machine at eachh? site provides no benefit.  Having equipment for an entire third-@ duplicate site, even in storage, might help, although if it were? not in active use there would likely be some effort required toP  achieve current ECO levels, etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:40:06 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com># Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancen/ Message-ID: <3BAD9FE7.11724.119BC2C0@localhost>   / On 23 Sep 2001, at 6:29, Larry Kilgallen wrote:iD > Having a site get destroyed is actually much more rare than having > it temporarily unusable.  C I agree.  Even after a flood, the floor space is recoverable.  Not  D only does the equipment have to be replaced, but the new site might D not even be prepared for computers (raised floor, A/C, UPS, etc...).     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671n1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147$= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:39:15 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com># Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancet. Message-ID: <3BAD9FB3.2699.119AF925@localhost>  ( On 23 Sep 2001, at 1:45, JF Mezei wrote:C > > It seems weird, but you could still do this with Alpha, even if # > > you've never migrated to Alpha.bM > If a mission critical system is still on VAX, it is so for a reason. And ana9 > overnight migration to Alpha is probably not feasable.    E I didn't say "overnight".  But an application that can't be moved to eC Alpha could still be a part of a cluster with Alphas.  And they're d available new, off the shelf.f  ? > I can see 2 reasons for a mission critical site still on VAX: K > 	-plan to eventually migrate away from VMS so no effort to port to Alpha.iM > In the second case, such a diasster might prompt a quicker port to some newkC > platform unless rebuilding their cluster with vaxes is very easy.t  ? Some people don't have a "plan" -- just a wish.  So, they stop  F investing, hoping that this VMS stuff will just go away.  Trouble is,  it keeps working.n  O > But if your applications have not been certified or tested on Alpha, or if an.N > Alpha-VAX config has not been certified this may be a show stopper. RememberH > that a mission critical system with diasster tolerance is likely to beN > processing really important stuff, so chancing it with a new untested config > may not happen.   C Again, I'm not saying that you throw this together overnight.  But ?C testing a new configuration is going to happen, unless you replace v> the original site with equipment that's 100% identical to the 	 original.h    I > Would you be happy if your bank ran its funds transfers program on a PC  > emulator of VMS ?I  C Believe me, I've seen worse.  I know of some banks pushing dollars iB through Windows 95.  Bet your bank has lots of Windows boxes with  important applications on them.n     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671/1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147n= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com'   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:16:46 GMTo" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org># Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancem8 Message-ID: <i9mr7.175$F44.74754@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:  * > On 23 Sep 2001, at 1:45, JF Mezei wrote:D >> > It seems weird, but you could still do this with Alpha, even if$ >> > you've never migrated to Alpha.K >> If a mission critical system is still on VAX, it is so for a reason. Andt< >> an overnight migration to Alpha is probably not feasable. > F > I didn't say "overnight".  But an application that can't be moved toD > Alpha could still be a part of a cluster with Alphas.  And they're > available new, off the shelf.4 > @ >> I can see 2 reasons for a mission critical site still on VAX:K >> -plan to eventually migrate away from VMS so no effort to port to Alpha.tJ >> In the second case, such a diasster might prompt a quicker port to someH >> new platform unless rebuilding their cluster with vaxes is very easy. > @ > Some people don't have a "plan" -- just a wish.  So, they stopG > investing, hoping that this VMS stuff will just go away.  Trouble is,e > it keeps working.e > J >> But if your applications have not been certified or tested on Alpha, orL >> if an Alpha-VAX config has not been certified this may be a show stopper.L >> Remember that a mission critical system with diasster tolerance is likelyE >> to be processing really important stuff, so chancing it with a newn" >> untested config may not happen. > D > Again, I'm not saying that you throw this together overnight.  ButD > testing a new configuration is going to happen, unless you replace? > the original site with equipment that's 100% identical to them > original.  >  > J >> Would you be happy if your bank ran its funds transfers program on a PC >> emulator of VMS ? > D > Believe me, I've seen worse.  I know of some banks pushing dollarsC > through Windows 95.  Bet your bank has lots of Windows boxes withu! > important applications on them.n >  > K Scary thought. But ACI Worldwide, who now handles the BASE 24 product that yI used to be exclusively a Tandem product, now markets modules that run on   Windoz NT, called Winpay.         -- c Art Rice Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------* All opinions are my own and do not reflect* the views of the above mentioned employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:26:04 GMTl" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org># Subject: Re: VAX disaster toleranceo8 Message-ID: <0imr7.177$F44.77977@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Island Computers wrote:o   > Maybey > H > Perhaps decentralizing IT departments; say develop an IT department inJ > somewhere unheard of like here in Savannah GA - good cheap power,  largeH > population of graduates, southern salaries (around 60% of the National" > Average) and a few good schools.G > We are in a hurricane evacuation area but only within 30 miles of thee	 > coast -aI > Cable + Wireless have a major installation in Jax FL that services thisW( > area - wireless T1 speeds no problem -@ > I would have thought this would actually be the perfect place. > > > My thoughts - not those of the Savannah Chamber of Commerce. >  > -- > David Turner  H Maybe that is why PaymentTech and Chase have large centers in Tampa and D Raymond James Financial has its world Headquarters in Clearwater/St  Petersburg, FL.  e --   Art Rice Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------* All opinions are my own and do not reflect* the views of the above mentioned employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:41:35 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2309011041350001@user-2ivebk3.dialup.mindspring.com>  B In article <3BACD302.16274.E7CF77D@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:t  A > Why anyone would want to locate a data center in the middle of rG > Manhattan is beyond me.  I've heard tales that some data centers run rH > VMS and are clustered to backup sites in New Jersey, which makes more  > sense.  J It seems that few, if any, of the high-profile financial data centers wereH in the WTC.  They are spread out across the whole of lower Manhattan and beyond.i  J The American Stock Exchange is close-ish to the WTC, and is/was within theG evacuation area.  As of the beginning of last week, they were borrowing1I space at the NYSE.  The ASE's equipment was assumed to be intact; I don'tR% know about power and other utilities.m  A Jersey City and Brooklyn are favorite sites for the other half ofeH dual-site VMS clusters in the Manhattan financial world.  I expect theseF cluster will gradually spread out over wider areas, since VMS has beenJ adding fiberchannel capabilities.  Some NYC firms seem to lag a bit on VMSH versions, so they don't all have the wide-area cluster capability at the moment.S  F > But with communications so cheap now, why have the computers in the H > city, anyway?  When you look at the price per square foot (maybe it's F > per square millimeter in big cities to reduce sticker shock), being ) > in the countryside makes perfect sense.L  A My impression is that communication is cheap, but ultra-reliable, G redundant-everything, physically-separated-data-path communications are H not so cheap.  And putting these into service between Manhattan and say,E Columbus or Atlanta, might be rather non-trivial.  No matter how many G fibers you have leaving lower Manhattan, you might have trouble finding D some that DON'T go through the basement of the Verizon building, forC example.  And your disaster-time "spare" fibers might also be under F contract as spares for the phone company, the cell phone system, and aI dozen miscellaneous ISPs.  And the technicians who are supposed to do the H work to put your spares on-line might be, well, a little bit overworked.  E I expect many firms will rework their disaster plans in the weeks andm
 months ahead.r  F Of course, the advantage of having a local data center in Manhattan is* that it is close to the people who use it.  F From here, it looks like the financial companies in NYC that depend onJ reliable transaction processing did a pretty good job with disaster prep. B Remote data centers, communications, and backups seem to have beenD adequate to allow Wall Street to start up in less than a week.  SomeD (all?) of the exchanges could have opened earlier except for safety,J personnel and basic infrastructure problems.  Perhaps some had data-centerJ problems that couldn't be resolved until the Monday after, and the SEC mayD have held them all back util the slowest could open, so that all the2 markets restarted the same day.  Just speculating.  H Telephone and internet service in and around NYC were MUCH less prepared? for the disaster.  The system is still sick now, 12 days later.   D Another problem should not be a surprise.  Much PC-type data was notJ backed up at all, or there was no off-site backup.  Cantor Fitzgerald, forB example, who lost a terrible fraction of their people in the towerG collapse, also lost their whole U.S. personnel database, and presumablyI much more data.   H > My "data center" is a very low-profile target, I have DSL, and I only 0 > walk down one flight of stairs to get to work.  % And where is your remote data center?e   -- p Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 10:11:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancee3 Message-ID: <BDJds5ctjN+R@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-2309011041350001@user-2ivebk3.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:c    C > My impression is that communication is cheap, but ultra-reliable,oI > redundant-everything, physically-separated-data-path communications areuJ > not so cheap.  And putting these into service between Manhattan and say,G > Columbus or Atlanta, might be rather non-trivial.  No matter how many0I > fibers you have leaving lower Manhattan, you might have trouble findingRF > some that DON'T go through the basement of the Verizon building, for
 > example.  E I know someone in the Boston area whose extra-cost "separate routing"eB circuits to the midwest a few years ago were both knocked out by aB single construction incident in the New York City/New Jersey area.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:46:27 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance + Message-ID: <3BAE11E2.760291B@videotron.ca>h   Robert Deininger wrote:fH > Of course, the advantage of having a local data center in Manhattan is, > that it is close to the people who use it.  N Perhaps one of the biggest reasons to have the data centr near to the users isJ to remove one link in the chain, reducing the number of things that can go wrong: communications.  C If your traders are in Manhattan but your main and backup sites are L off-island, it means that your day-to-day operations die whenever there is aN communication problem. If your data center is in same building as traders, you- remove a potentially weak link in your chain.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:41:21 +0200g< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com> Subject: Re: VAX DOCUMENTi( Message-ID: <3BADCA61.5AA7791C@home.com>   Secret ?% I just took right out of the manual !t I never test it myself...p	 Jan-Erik.1   Steve Thompson wrote:  > 0 > On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: > 1 > > If you use DECdoc with at least version 3.2 :" > >v3 > > $ DEFINE DOC$HTML_OPTIONS "MANUAL_SEGMENTATION"  > > 8 > > (This will make the body of your SGML file to becomeB > > one (large) HTML file. The Index will will be a separate file.@ > > You can than add <html_segment>("apples") tags to split your" > > HTML output wherever you want. > K > Mmm, interesting. I have been a big user of DECdoc for many years, and am>K > currently using version 3.3. Under this version, and under 3.2 before it,oJ > I was never able to get these options to do anything. Please reveal your
 > secrets! >  > Stevec   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:53:09 -0400,+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>u1 Subject: RE: VAX-Alpha Migration: COBOL/BASIC/FMSST Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4010D708A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Norm,9  D >>> Does anyone have any tips on what compiler options we should use= and/or what to watch out for when recompiling the pieces? >>>t  G A few references which might be helpful with any VAX to Alpha migration  -f  A http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html (Good info  written by Neil Rieck)  D http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6459/6459PRO.HTML (VAX to Alpha Migration documentation)  @ http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/index.html (Info on DECmigrate)h   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----D From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com [mailto:norm.raphael@jamesbury.com]  Sent: September 20, 2001 1:03 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp- Subject: VAX-Alpha Migration: COBOL/BASIC/FMSd          0 We have an app that we need to migrate that uses FMS, COBOL, and BASIC.  2 Does anyone have any tips on what compiler options/ we should use and/or what to watch out for whene recompiling the pieces?s       -Norme   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 06:33:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)"" Subject: Re: Which file to change!3 Message-ID: <zesTgdFwAjkI@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  h In article <55f85d77.0109221900.7a79ea1@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:p > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<pFpq7.425$YP.16396@news.cpqcorp.net>...J >> the window manager can (and often does) change it before it gets to the
 >> server. >> i > @ > Yes, and this has been somewhat of an annoyance to me. I noted? > that with CDE "The new desktop for OpenVMS" (someone _has_ tot= > change that login message, it's getting a bit dated now :-)-  D So what are they going to change it to ?  Presumably the reason they7 don't call it CDE is that it is not full CDE-compliant.X   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:03:20 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: World Trade Centers, Message-ID: <3BAD6D18.6080202@tsoft-inc.com>   Martin Knoblauch wrote:>   > Bob Koehler wrote: > e >>In article <3BAA17F3.85558C07@TeraPort.de>, Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de> writes:t >>
 >>I wrote: >> >>>>American precedent:  ThomascI >>>>   Jefferson signed a declaration of war against the Barbary pirates.  >>>> >>>>G >>> I think here we tend to disagree. Unless you can find a nation or aeB >>>nation-leader who "ordered" the WTC attack, you are not at war. >>>i; >>   What nation do you think Barbary pirates qualifies as?- >> > F >  That is the problem. They are just that - criminals that need to beH > prosecuted. But there is not coutry that they represent. So you cannot > have a war.  >  > Martin    $ Maybe some definition problems here.  A If a 'WAR' can only happen between 2 governments and established : countries, then:  " 1) no, we cannot have a war,  and,# 2) let's get rid of governments :-)0  G However, if an enemy, and I will claim here that you can have an enemy aE that is not a country or government, if an enemy has so aroused your  : ire, you can have what many people could consider a 'WAR'.  H Frankly, if the US never identifies the specific culprits, it's a minor E issue, except for those who can only think of revenge.  What is more tG important is that the action has gotten the attention of many who were  B quite content to stick their head in the sand and ignore problems E affecting other people.  There now appears to be an almost universal -F feeling in the US that what happened on September 11, 2001 must never C happen to any people anywhere ever again.  If actions are taken to oH insure this (as much as is possible) then I feel that would be a better ) outcome than revenge on any perpetrators.i  D Any such initiative would be a 'WAR'!  A war against terrorism, and D would/should include activities that prevent anyone from ever being I desperate enough to commit such an act, as well as whatever is necessary tI to insure that such people can never again find a 'home' from which they    can plot and train and whatever.  I As for many references to 'collateral damage', I feel that there is zero fG tolerance for such, and I think that most Americans feel the same way. -& Any such would just be more terrorism.  H Now that I've preached the 'lets be prudent' line, I will say this.  If H perpetrators are identified, then we (hopefully the world, but for sure I the USA) should go after them, "no holds barred" and "no quarter given"!  G   If they have friends that wish to protect them, then those 'friends'  K are equally guilty, and are also subject to sanctions, permanent sanctions!    Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:12:22 GMT / From: "Randall Burlew" <rkburlew@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: World Trade CentertD Message-ID: <Wclr7.8606$W83.808614@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9ojmhp$pa2$1@pyrite.mv.net... >hL > I find it more than offensive that some people seem to believe we have theK > right to act without regard for many of the precepts we normally claim to L > hold sacred simply because we're mad as hell and therefore somehow removedL > from such constraints.  When the subject at hand is the casual destructionF > of innocent people in large numbers, I feel little compunction about7 > letting, and some obligation to let, that anger show.n   I have no problem with this-  L > But I don't believe I've done so indiscriminately.  If you feel otherwise, I8J > suspect it's because you've seen what I've said through the veil of yourG > emotional reaction.  And since I'm the one who has been promoting the-6 > virtues of discussion, I'll try to help sort it out.  B You have been promoting the virtues of discussion that agrees with@ you. You are also very condescending to people that do not agree2 with you. That does not promote discussion at all.  > > > You have no problem separating the Iraqi populace from the= > > authorities and quite rightly say that the people are notiB > > responsible for their government's action but you (and others): > > are unwilling or unable to grant us the same courtesy. > L > Of course I'm not:  we *are* responsible for our government's actions to a > *far* greater degree.  >aJ > We have the right to criticize it openly, and assemble for such purpose. >cL > We elect our leaders, who are thus at least periodically accountable to us3 > and at least somewhat responsive because of that.p  F There is precious little difference between Democrats and Republicans.E Look at what our Democratic & Republican leaders are saying. Is thereeD one iota of difference between the two? What has President Bush done! that Al Gore would not have done?t  E > We have the capacity to stop this country's internal economy in its  tracks, A > using entirely legal mechanisms that would not permit any legal> retribution,F > in a matter of hours should we unite as a group to do so (with a fewF > exceptions legally protected from work stoppage that would not alone sufficee > to keep things running).  G This is the only thing that might have even the remotest possibility ofi working.   >n > >t( > > One example out of many, from below:K > > > (and more so on a personal level, given our responsiblity for our ownr > > > country's actions) > >'K > > If I am responsible for my country's actions, then cannot everyone else 4 > > be held accountable for their country's actions? > K > No:  the situation is completely different in the U.S. than in, say, IraqlB > (see above for a few examples).  Many people, including me, takeI > considerable pride in this.  But the reasons that give us pride give usW > responsibility as well.h >A >  That statement is oneE > > of many that you have made that grants some sort of justification A > > to the terrorists acts, whether you like to admit it our not.p >aE > If that statement *seems to you* to grant some justification to themI > terrorist acts, that simply indicates that you have failed to grasp the-D > difference between simple causation (a concept devoid of any value! > judgement) and 'justification'.u  G If the individual citizen shares the guilt or blame for the governmentstE action, then any attitude or reprisals directed at the government can B also be directed at the individuals. Moreover, if an individual isH responsible for a group's action, then a lot of bigotry is justified. If> there happens to be a higher statistic of crime committed by aF certain ethnic group, then I am justified in fearing, hating, etc. theG entire group. That is the basis of all bigotry and it is the foundatione of your defense.  F  I will repeat. We have a responsibility. We are not responsible. This is not a subtle distinction.   >  The mostcE > > you can say is that we have a responsibility to try to change ourn) > > country's actions that we deem wrong.  >nL > That's a somewhat subtle distinction, but I do agree with it.  However, if@ > you wish to make that distinction, it implies that we have theL > responsibility to evaluate our country's actions for merit or lack thereof > and react appropriately.  ! Yes. I will agree with the above.   B > I don't believe most people do that (especially when it comes toI > international affairs which *appear* not to affect them at all), and iniJ > failing to do so such people become responsible for the *continuance* ofH > actions our country takes throughout the world.  The kinds of examples I'veJ > given of activities we, as individuals, share responsibility for are notE > random acts we haven't had time to react to (had we been paying any F > attention at all):  they've been going on for many years or decades.  K Apparently, you move in different circles than I do. One of the things thatiJ really irks me is you think you have the right to speak for all Americans.K You don't have the foggiest idea what I or millions of others Americans do.  This is shear bigotry.  G > That description applies to me as much as many:  I may feel generally K > uncomfortable with my limited awareness of what goes on in the world, butr InL > seldom take the time to learn more about it and actually do more than voteL > for people I believe may help change it.  Right-wingers call that 'liberalH > guilt' and disavow any such responsibility at all, while continuing to feelK > free for our country to throw its weight around in whatever manner it mays > feel like.  B I know conservatives and liberals who are good people and aware ofG what goes on in the world. I suppose your term right-winger is supposedb? to be some sort of in insult against my conservative friends...   L > There's another subtle aspect to our responsibility:  at least some of theG > oppression directly or indirectly supported by our government and our L > businesses contributes to our own affluence.  So turning a blind eye to itK > has an uncomfortable element of self-interest as well as simple laziness.i  I There are a lot of people in this country that do not turn a blind eye tot. anything. Can't you get that through you head?   >  Anything beyond that and youaE > > open the door to make everyone fair game, especially since almostaF > > every country has some sort of blood on their hands. We might just2 > > as well kill everyone off and be done with it. >oJ > While that seems in some degree to be the direction we're now headed in,! > that's not what I've advocated.s >eI > Being responsible for something in no way *justifies* arbitrarily harshoG > retribution:  punishment appropriate to the crime is the basis of oure systemL > of law, which also makes fine distinctions between accidents, contributory: > negligence, *reckless* negligence, and willful misdeeds.  B It justifies bigotry. After that you are on a very slippery slope.  K > Most of the things I feel the American public can be held responsible foriI > fall into the first two categories, where responsibility may be as muchoI > moral as legal (e.g., even when an accident occurs that injures others, J > those involved really should try to understand any steps they could take to > avoid another occurrence). >t > >sI > > Another one is when you said that if the government did something you-H > > didn't like (I cannot remember the exact something), it would almostJ > > be enough to drive you to consider domestic terrorism. If that doesn'tJ > > give implicit justification to the terrorists, I don't know what does. >tI > A point that may be appropriate to make at this point is that there's as bit K > of terrorist in *anyone* who believes that some goals must be attained ateL > whatever cost.  That includes people who believe that large-scale militaryL > action is appropriate where no concentrated military threat exists, peopleL > who would consider slaughtering the families of terrorists as a deterrent,F > and people like me who believe that there are some (I hope extremelyF > unlikely) actions that my country *could* take that would have to be/ > actively resisted as strenuously as possible.t >eH > The hypothetical action I "didn't like" was large-scale use of nuclearL > weapons to wipe out entire populations in multiple countries.  I respondedE > that this would justify whatever actions were necessary to stop it. J > Unfortunately, the physical means we use to carry out such actions oftenJ > aren't accessible, so what must be destroyed is the *will* to continue -H > which is precisely the situation terrorists face (a perceived absolute need2 > to respond without the means to do so directly). >pL > Would I actually start trying to wipe out large numbers of people here whoJ > had no direct involvement if that appeared to be absolutely the only way toK > stop such indiscriminate slaughter abroad?  I don't know:  that's playingmL > God to a degree that makes me doubt my ability to choose correctly, thoughG > it doesn't seem to slow down others much when it comes to 'collateralsL > damage' in some remote country.  I do know that I truly wish that whateverI > such damage was inflicted on other uninvolved parties would be divinelyeJ > inflicted, individual for individual, on U.S. citizens as well - since IG > believe that would lead to a considerable (and appropriate) change inR > approach on our part.   J I was wrong here. You are giving explicit justification to the terrorists. Thanks for making it clear.a  J  > > > > While things are never even, or fair, those poor powerless people have< > > > > the same chance as the rest of the world to prosper. > > >tI > > > The economic and social seas in which we all swim vary greatly fromn oneaH > > > place to another - and if you happen to be born in a nutrient-poor part > ofL > > > those seas, it's far harder to 'prosper' than if you happen to be born > inG > > > the U.S. or many other developed countries with at least somewhati > > > enlightened governments. > > >y > > >   That they don't is= > > > > not the fault of the USA.  Not in any meaningful way.1 > > >0K > > > Sometimes not, sometimes so.  If our government supports a repressive:
 > > regimeI > > > in their country, incontrovertibly so.  If our businesses support a E > > > repressive regime in their country, certainly so at least 'in ah > meaningfulI > > > way'.  If our government or businesses significantly and negativelyDH > > > interfere in the internal workings of their country, even under an
 > > otherwiseIL > > > decent regime, we're also at some fault.  And if our government and/orF > > > businesses support some other country that affects their country > > negatively/ > > > in such ways, we're not blameless either.t > >hE > > Again, like so many times in this thread, you are taking what thed> > > government does and and casting blame on the citizens. WhyI > > cannot the same thinking be used to justify an assault on Afganistan?p >nK > Again, the Afghan population didn't elect their leaders and have far less-H > direct and indirect control over them - even if they had much detailedH > understanding of what they were doing, which given the almost complete lack/ > of infrastructure in the country is unlikely.F >01 > > I'm sure you don't want to go down that road.> >oG > I'll gladly go down that road:  I don't think you understand where ita leads. >o  L You don't understand my points. I suspect you are not even trying to. If youE can blame everyone in a group of people for the actions (or preceivedrG actions) of a few, you have justified most of the bigotry that has everw existed.  J > As far as 'justifying an assault on Afghanistan', there is a qualitativeI > difference between intra-national and inter-national behavior - largelyEI > because we haven't yet figured out how to apply one set of standards top therL > entire world, and thus as a practical matter allow nations a great deal ofB > internal autonomy because there's no obvious better alternative. >mK > There are exceptions, such as the actions in Kosovo.  But such exceptions G > are approached warily (IIRC it took something like 8 months before an/ actualL > military response to that situation occurred) and require a high degree of0 > *international* accord before action is taken. >oF > The Taliban government may well have a lot to answer for internally,K > possibly to the point that some similar action should be taken there - if6 a:G > similar level of international accord can be reached, rather than theiK > decidedly nervous expressions of support we've bullied people into givingn onB > short notice in the current situation (I referred elsewhere to a
 31-countryG > Gallup poll that found people in *most* of them thought internationalt legals> > rather than military action was appropriate in this matter). >aK > But the Taliban have virtually no effect on the rest of the world:  their J > 'external' offense in our eyes is refusing to expel bin Laden (a man andF > organization that helped them both during the resistance against the SovietJ > occupation and later in the Taliban's ascent to power), which is passiveJ > rather than active and does not in itself justify a full-scale invasion. >lF > If the Taliban refused to hand him over after being offered credibleL > evidence of his guilt, I suspect we could garner plenty of support for theF > use of the *minimum* - i.e., 'surgical' - military force required to extractu? > bin Laden - and I'd agree that it was justified if such broad5
 internationald > support existed. >a > >KJ > > > Turning your back on responsibility doesn't make it go away - but it canaK > > > easily make those you're injuring feel even angrier while at the same  > timeI > > > feeling less able to do anything about it by non-violent means.  It J > > > certainly appears to be what drives at least *some* individuals over the ; > > > edge into terrorism, and others into supporting them.  > > C > > Is what our government does ever a reason for terrorism against H > > our citizens? This is just plain, unreasoning bigotry you are trying. > > to justify, and bigotry leading to murder. >tF > Again, you're confused between causation and justification.  What isJ > *justified* is a great deal of anger, not a randomly homicidal response.  F That is not what you said above in your response to a possible nuclear# scenario. I think you are confused.    >iL > Unfortunately, when you get a large number of people extremely angry, someE > of them won't be very picky about how they respond (e.g., there's av growingfJ > number of reprisals - several hundred reported as of yesterday - againstB > people who just *looked like* Arabs in this country that have noC > 'justification' whatsoever - but the news media call this 'almoste+ > unavoidable' because of human nature...).e  G I see you like to pick out the worst possible comment by the news media F and trot it out as what the entire media has been saying. I have heard9 repeated calls for tolerance, from the President on down.o  E But then, according to you anybody in a group can be held responsible 0 so if they belong to that ethnic group, too bad.   > > >   Remember, alleL > > > > those who think talking is better, (which it is), that you have thatE > > > > capability because of the blood and lives of countless peoplet > throughoutK > > > > the history (sometimes good, sometimes not so good) of our country.mE > > > > Nobody handed us any freedoms, our ancestors fought for them.e > > >sI > > > Some people are in a far better position to fight for their freedomn thanI > > > others.  During the American Revolution, we had a large, relativelye > free, L > > > and moderately affluent population, with access to inexhaustible localJ > > > resources and a fair amount of existing armaments, spread across one of > > theoL > > > larger colonies in the world, available to fight an enemy which had toI > > > travel 3,000 miles across an ocean just to engage us.  By contrast,n the K > > > Iraqi people, to pick a current example, are faced with an indigenous-
 > > tyrantL > > > backed by a local army that's one of the larger standing armies in theE > > > world, ready and willing to use mass weapons such as poison gas$ against4 > > its2L > > > own population, and lack both weapons to fight with and the ability to& > > > organize without being detected. > > I > > By your own statement below the Iraqis are responsible for what their E > > country does. I don't believe that, but it shows how muddled yourt thinking > > is.i >yL > You'll have to expand on your reasoning here:  from the words you've used,- > I'd say it's you whose thinking is muddled.s >cF >  Do you seriously believe I have any more of a chance to change whatA > > the US does than any Iraqi does in changing their government?  >eH > 100%.  If you think you don't, it seems there's a great deal about our$ > country that you don't appreciate. > > K > > > Sitting back and proclaiming that such people have only themselves to 	 > > blameAB > > > for not changing their predicament really isn't appropriate,
 especiallyG > > > given that  a) we provided a great deal of the backing for Iraq'ss
 > militaryK > > > establishment not all that long ago and  b) we failed to eliminate iti
 > > during5 > > > the Gulf war when we had a good opportunity to.  > >e > > I didn't do either.p >c< > I was responding specifically to an implication of Dave's. > 2 >  Blaming me and other US civilians doesn't wash. > J > You've a right to your opinion, but that doesn't make it correct.  WhileC > there's nothing like a degree of 'blame' that would *justify* then> > WTC/Pentagon attack, there is non-negligible responsibility.  < Again, you have already said more than enough to justify it.   >e >  LikelL > > I said earlier, if individual citizens can be held accountable or blamed > inI > > any way for their governments actions, then you have went a long wayse$ > > toward justifying any terrorism. >tB > Incorrect.  But it does help *explain some causes* of terrorism.  E Read what I have written. Try to understand, instead of just brushinge7 it aside and giving me a rehash of your argument again.t   Randyr   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 14:38:41 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)S Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.2-1] SHOW USER/SUB sometimes doesn't show all subprocessese( Message-ID: <3badd7d1@news.kapsch.co.at>   In article <y4sndrvw0v.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:H >If the subprocess is in fact a detached process, that might explain it.; >Or does a SHOW PROCESS listing show it is in the job tree?   % Seems, I didn't make it clear enough.pH They were subprocesses, they were shown in the job tree, and SHOW SYSTEM0 listed them with the "S" at the end of the line.  % Only SHOW USER/SUB didn't list them !i  = Now, I'm on V7.3 and expect to see what problems are there...   K Thanks for responding (at least one of you folks seems to have such problems, - and one another I've seen - on V7.2-1 too)   -- l< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 16:39:14 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)H Subject: [OpenVMS] V7.2 VAX satellite doesn't find V7.3 Alpha bootserver* Message-ID: <3badf412$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  , Just a quick question before I reread my FM.  L I upgraded my Alpha bootserver from V7.2-1 to V7.3 and now my still V7.2 VAXG satellite doesn't boot any longer (can't find disk server - MOP is ok).o  D Mixed version V7.3 and V7.2 and architecture is said to be possible,' so, please, what did I miss obviously ?   6 btw, the Alpha satellites did boot without problems...   -- h< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888a< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2001 19:46:20 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] V7.2 VAX satellite doesn't find V7.3 Alpha bootserver* Message-ID: <3bae1fec$1@news.kapsch.co.at>   In article <rdeininger-2309011237310001@user-2ivebk3.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:pC >In article <3badf412$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net wrote:h/ >> Just a quick question before I reread my FM.  >> lO >> I upgraded my Alpha bootserver from V7.2-1 to V7.3 and now my still V7.2 VAXuJ >> satellite doesn't boot any longer (can't find disk server - MOP is ok).  ) %VAXcluster, no connection to disk servern  G >> Mixed version V7.3 and V7.2 and architecture is said to be possible, * >> so, please, what did I miss obviously ? >> e9 >> btw, the Alpha satellites did boot without problems...o >iH >Take a close look at the MSCP* parameters on the disk servers.  Are theJ >required disks really being served?  In some cases the default parametersK >are not what you need, and an upgrade might have snuck those defaults backo >into the system.r  # That was my first guess, of course:I   $ sysgen sh mscpM MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0      16384 Coded-valu  M MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          0         0         15 Bit-Encode eM MSCP_BUFFER                  1024       1024       256         -1 Coded-valu  M MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2        128 Coded-valu  N MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         0 2147483647 Seconds    D  H But I don't see what parameters might be wrong, and why they only affect- the VAX client and not the Alpha clients too.   < The disk is from an HSJ and all disks are served as usual...   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888c< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.530 ************************