1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 532       Contents:' c$main undefined in hello-world program  Re: CETS2001 presentations Re: cpio ported to OpenVMS? P CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to port 44P Re: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to porP Re: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to porP Re: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to por Re: Easter Egg Re: Easter Egg Re: Easter Egg Re: ftp login failure $ Re: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MB$ Re: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MB  HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MB$ Re: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MB# RE: I am Adam H. Kerman your master & Re: Ken Olsen (was World Trade Cente)r0 Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.10 Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1 Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center  Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center P PRESS Release - PRI to Support product on Compaq's future Itanium Based OpenVMS & Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage Re: Really Unhackable...???? Re: Really Unhackable...????' Running successfull txt2pdf on openVMS?   Re: Samba on OpenVMS protection. Sophos and PMDF  Re: Sophos and PMDF # Re: Uninstall global section in DCL  Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance RE: VAX disaster tolerance RE: VAX disaster tolerance RE: VAX disaster tolerance RE: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX DOCUMENT' Re: VAX DOCUMENT! Off Topic but On Tool ( Re: VAX-Alpha Migration: COBOL/BASIC/FMS" Whose Running The Oldest Software?& Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?& Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?& Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?& Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?& Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software? Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade CenterC Re: [OpenVMS] V7.2 VAX satellite doesn't find V7.3 Alpha bootserver : [VMScluster] Cross Architecture Boot with Cluster_Config ?> Re: [VMScluster] Cross Architecture Boot with Cluster_Config ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:36:31 -0700% From: 0vazan@st.fmph.uniba.sk (Bubak) 0 Subject: c$main undefined in hello-world program= Message-ID: <87266f0d.0109240936.74701e6e@posting.google.com>   ! I get this error from "link test" 3 LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol C$MAIN referenced A Along with C$PRINTF undefined and message details. "cc test" went 0 without errors. "test.c" is typical hello-world: #include <stdio.h>
 int main() {  printf("hello!\n"); 	 return 0;  }    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 04:11:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: CETS2001 presentations 3 Message-ID: <WTRHB4iK58qi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3BAEAD0A.F52209A2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  _ >> In article <9oj8tt$q6p$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "warren sander" <sander@ma.ultranet.com> writes: P >> > I didn't have time to 'htmlize' the cets presentations on friday. I will do: >> > that next week so you can view them with any browser. >>   >> Thanks.  Much appreciated.  > H > Second Larry's motion, but still have an issue with the attendees-only) > thing. Not nice. Really sucks, in fact.   > That is entirely different -- an issue with the CETS web site.  A Warren works for Compaq, and is talking about the VMS Development 4 web site, which presumably has no such restrictions.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Sep 2001 12:51:02 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) $ Subject: Re: cpio ported to OpenVMS?+ Message-ID: <9ona7m$5oq$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   ' In article <3BAEAB05.E7F1B137@fsi.net>, 4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> Arne Vajhj wrote:  |> >   |> > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  |> > > Arne Vajhj wrote: # |> > > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  |> > > > > Arne Vajhj wrote: " |> > > > > > Didier Morandi wrote:0 |> > > > > > > jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil wrote:L |> > > > > > > > Does any one have any info about a port of cpio to OpenVMS? |> > > > > > >1 |> > > > > > > W H A T   I S   CPIO ?????????????  |> > > > > >D |> > > > > > A common Unix utility. A very old Unix utility I think.
 |> > > > >C |> > > > > Seems to be compilation of (unsplit?), g(un)zip and tar.  |> > > >
 |> > > > ????  |> > > >- |> > > > CPIO is way older than GZIP/GUNZIP !  |> > > >= |> > > > And I do not think it is that related to TAR either.  |> > >* |> > > I guess no one told FreeBSD then... |> >  	 |> > ????  |> >   |> > Does FreeBSD claim that ? |>  3 |> Take a look at their downloadables, for example:  |>  C |> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.4-RELEASE/doc/  |>  J |> Notice there is doc.aa through doc.cd. Append these together into, say,2 |> doc.tgz, then unpack it like any other tarball. |>  G |> ...yet their installation system (which does *NOT* use install.sh in G |> that directory) uses cpio to read the segments sequentially and pipe ; |> them through gunzip to decompress and tar to un-archive.  |>     Uhhh.  I don't think so.     $ cat doc.??|cpio -itv|more * cpio: warning: skipped 54464 bytes of junk ?-wS--x-wt 18734 2850     33027    3903721051 Oct 24  2013 I\020+4\363\275\364\203\335\371n\241H&\302\332e~s\026M\003\37273\360\306\013\006!X\302s\346$G\256\224|G\007\253\272\245\313\242\220\020.\ \032\r\266\266~\247* cpio: warning: skipped 14455 bytes of junk  G Those files are not in cpio format and can not be read by cpio any more - than stanalone backup could read a tar file..   H Those files make up a compressed tarfile that has been run through splitI to break it up into smaller pieces easier to download reliably.  They can @ be extracted manually with the command: "cat doc.??|tar xzvf -".  J |> Been that way since I first started playing with it back around V2.2 or |> so.  B And, of course, I don't see what thgis has to do with cpio or it's? ancestery at all.  cpio was the archive format of choice on the A original System-V (and maybe even System-III, but my memory fails A me) where tar was the archive of choice under real BSD.  cpio was ; an improvement over the tar of that day as it was better at ? maintaining and restoring ownerships and permission accurately. < It also had the built in ability to move an entire directory= (the -p option) even between different physical devices.  tar : could be used to do this, but in a more cumbersome manner.: System-V had tar as well, however, as cpio (as the command6 indicates) was not really an archive format by design.   tar -- Tape ARchive  cpio -- CoPy Input to Output  C Being as the conclusion in this group is still that VMS isn't going E away any time soon (an opinion I am pleased to share), maybe I should  right a book: &               "Unix to VMS and back!!"A      A comprehensive guide to how commands on each system compare 8      and how to accomplish the same tasks under each OS.1      (maybe with some esoterica as margin notes!)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:58:57 +0200 . From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si>Y Subject: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to port 44 / Message-ID: <fyCr7.428$8v1.14614@news.siol.net>   I I just installed CSWS 1.1 on VMS 7.3. (default instalation, except apache  root is on different directory)   1 When I try to start the server, it does not work.    Process APACHE$00 is created.   L Then processes APACHE$000*** are created. Then APACHE$WWW* processes apeares and disapears.K Then APACHE$000* proceses also disaperas and reapears and all cikel repeats  in loop.  ! Here is an insert from error_log.     H Mon Sep 24 10:17:12 2001] [notice] Apache/1.3.14 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.21 Mod_JSD erv/1.1.1 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a configured -- resuming normal
 operationsD Import shared translation (APACHE$SHARED_SOCKET) status: 444, max: 0# import of shared socket failed: 444 J [Mon Sep 24 10:17:16 2001] [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could   not bind to port 443 D Import shared translation (APACHE$SHARED_SOCKET) status: 444, max: 0# import of shared socket failed: 444    APACHE$CONFIG.DAT looks:  " $ ty sys$startup:apache$config.dat ##, ##  WARNING: Do not edit this file yourself.6 ##  Configuration data file is built and maintained by* ##  SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]APACHE$CONFIG.COM;1 ### ##  Written 24-SEP-2001 10:38:40.97  ## VERSION                 1.0 6 PATH_PCSI               KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE]6 PATH_COMMON             KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE]F PATH_SPECIFIC           KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS]
 HTTPD_ARGS MOD_SSL                 YES  SYSTEM_LOGICALS         NO  4 I try with SYSTEM_LOGICALS YES first (same behavior)  < ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++' Log file from APACHE$000* processes is:   * $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server $ !  $ exit
 $ SET NOON7 $ IF F$TRNLNM ("APACHE$DEBUG") .NES. "" THEN SET VERIFY  $! ProcedureH KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.][000000]APACHE$$000.COM;1# $! Created Mon Sep 24 10:39:13 2001 = $ TEMP1 = F$PARSE(F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE"),,,,"NO_CONCEAL") B $ TEMP1 = F$PARSE(TEMP1,,,"DEVICE") + F$PARSE(TEMP1,,,"DIRECTORY")
 $ IF F$SEARCH L ("KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.][000000]APACHE$$LOGICALS.CO M") .NES. "" THEN -   L @KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.][000000]APACHE$$LOGICALS.COM# $! Created: 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.08 2 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$SPECIFIC -3   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] - #   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL) 0 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$COMMON -#   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.] - #   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL) . $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$ROOT -3   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] - 3   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL), APACHE$COMMON: 4 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$HTTPD_ARGS -	   "-DSSL" 5 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$CONFIG_FILE -    SYS$MANAGER:APACHE$CONFIG.DAT ( $ temp1 := APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COMC $ if (f$search(temp1) .nes. "") then @APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COM * $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server $ !  $ exit> $ SET NOVERIFY ! Required by CGI (else malformed header error)8   APACHE$WWW   job terminated at 24-SEP-2001 10:39:20.53     Accounting information: D   Buffered I/O count:               1521      Peak working set size: 11968 @   Direct I/O count:                  127      Peak virtual size: 181936>   Page faults:                       732      Mounted volumes: 0 C   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.97      Elapsed time:       0  00:00:06.84   @ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++& And log file from APACHE$00 process is  * $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server $ !  $ exit$ $!  Created: 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.17$ $ temp1 = f$environment("procedure")B $ temp1 = f$parse(temp1,,,"device") + f$parse(temp1,,,"directory")E $ @KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS]APACHE$$LOGICALS.COM # $! Created: 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.08 2 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$SPECIFIC -3   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] - #   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL) 0 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$COMMON -#   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.] - #   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL) . $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$ROOT -3   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] - 3   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL), APACHE$COMMON: 4 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$HTTPD_ARGS -	   "-DSSL" 5 $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$CONFIG_FILE -    SYS$MANAGER:APACHE$CONFIG.DAT ( $ temp1 := APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COMC $ if (f$search(temp1) .nes. "") then @APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COM * $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server $ !  $ exit> $ SET NOVERIFY ! Required by CGI (else malformed header error)A %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of APACHE$00 has been superseded   H ************************************************************************H ************************************************************************6 **  Starting APACHE$COMMON:[000000]APACHE$SERVER.COM;1 **  24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.36 H ************************************************************************H ************************************************************************    G 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.37   User: APACHE$WWW       Process ID:   00000390 J                           Node: KRONOS           Process name: "APACHE$00"  	 Terminal: ) User Identifier:    [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]  Base priority:      4 ( Default file spec:  APACHE$ROOT:[000000] Number of Kthreads: 1    Process Quotas:   Account name: AP_HTTPD F  CPU limit:                      Infinite  Direct I/O limit:       300F  Buffered I/O byte count quota:    199232  Buffered I/O limit:     300F  Timer queue entry quota:             609  Open file quota:        297F  Paging file quota:                246912  Subprocess quota:        20F  Default page fault cluster:           64  AST quota:              609F  Enqueue quota:                      2000  Shared file limit:        0F  Max detached processes:                0  Max active jobs:          0   Accounting information: A  Buffered I/O count:        44  Peak working set size:       2288 A  Direct I/O count:          25  Peak virtual size:         167504 A  Page faults:              159  Mounted volumes:                0   Images activated:           1)  Elapsed CPU time:          0 00:00:00.03 )  Connect time:              0 00:00:00.13    Authorized privileges:  NETMBX       TMPMBX   Process privileges: /  NETMBX               may create network device 2  TMPMBX               may create temporary mailbox   Process rights: +  APACHE$WWW                        resource    System rights:  SYS$NODE_KRONOS   Auto-unshelve: on    Image Dump: off    Soft CPU Affinity: off   Parse Style: Traditional   Home RAD: 0    Scheduling class name: none    Process Dynamic Memory Area L   Current Size (Kb)               128.00   Current Size (Pagelets)       256L   Free Space (Kb)                 114.18   Space in Use (Kb)           13.81L   Largest Var Block (Kb)          113.93   Smallest Var Block (bytes)     16L   Number of Free Blocks                6   Free Blocks LEQU 64 bytes       4   There is 1 process in this job:      APACHE$00 (*)    APACHE$ROOT:[000000]   =   APACHE$ROOT:[000000]   =   APACHE$COMMON:[000000], %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process APACHE$WWW_1 spawned. %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process apache$JServ_1 spawned ApacheJServ/1.1   8   APACHE$WWW   job terminated at 24-SEP-2001 10:39:26.12     Accounting information: D   Buffered I/O count:               1861      Peak working set size: 13136 @   Direct I/O count:                  396      Peak virtual size: 184992>   Page faults:                       807      Mounted volumes: 0 C   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:01.31      Elapsed time:       0  00:00:37.88      --  4 ----------------------------------------------------
 Gorazd Kikelj  OpenVMS system support Aster d.o.o. e-mail: gorazd.kikelj@aster.si www:  www.aster.si   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:23:06 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>Y Subject: Re: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to por , Message-ID: <3BAF098A.8060101@volkswagen.de>  = May be, that the Port 80 directive exists multiple times. The + installaiton guides has a section about it.      Gorazd Kikelj wrote:  K > I just installed CSWS 1.1 on VMS 7.3. (default instalation, except apacheH! > root is on different directory)W > 3 > When I try to start the server, it does not work.o >  > Process APACHE$00 is created.  > N > Then processes APACHE$000*** are created. Then APACHE$WWW* processes apeares > and disapears.M > Then APACHE$000* proceses also disaperas and reapears and all cikel repeatsn
 > in loop. > # > Here is an insert from error_log.  >  > J > Mon Sep 24 10:17:12 2001] [notice] Apache/1.3.14 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.21 > Mod_JSF > erv/1.1.1 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a configured -- resuming normal > operationsF > Import shared translation (APACHE$SHARED_SOCKET) status: 444, max: 0% > import of shared socket failed: 444tL > [Mon Sep 24 10:17:16 2001] [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: > couldo >  not bind to port 443:F > Import shared translation (APACHE$SHARED_SOCKET) status: 444, max: 0% > import of shared socket failed: 444R >  > APACHE$CONFIG.DAT looks: > $ > $ ty sys$startup:apache$config.dat > ##. > ##  WARNING: Do not edit this file yourself.8 > ##  Configuration data file is built and maintained by, > ##  SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]APACHE$CONFIG.COM;1 > ##% > ##  Written 24-SEP-2001 10:38:40.97O > ## > VERSION                 1.0 8 > PATH_PCSI               KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE]8 > PATH_COMMON             KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE]H > PATH_SPECIFIC           KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS] > HTTPD_ARGS > MOD_SSL                 YES  > SYSTEM_LOGICALS         NO > 6 > I try with SYSTEM_LOGICALS YES first (same behavior) > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++) > Log file from APACHE$000* processes is:  > , > $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server > $ !E > $ exit > $ SET NOON9 > $ IF F$TRNLNM ("APACHE$DEBUG") .NES. "" THEN SET VERIFYO > $! ProcedureJ > KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.][000000]APACHE$$000.COM;1% > $! Created Mon Sep 24 10:39:13 2001$? > $ TEMP1 = F$PARSE(F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE"),,,,"NO_CONCEAL")CD > $ TEMP1 = F$PARSE(TEMP1,,,"DEVICE") + F$PARSE(TEMP1,,,"DIRECTORY") > $ IF F$SEARCHFN > ("KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.][000000]APACHE$$LOGICALS.CO > M") .NES. "" THEN -I > N > @KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.][000000]APACHE$$LOGICALS.COM% > $! Created: 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.08E4 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$SPECIFIC -5 >   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] -I% >   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL) 2 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$COMMON -% >   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.] -I% >   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL)A0 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$ROOT -5 >   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] -@5 >   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL), APACHE$COMMON:e6 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$HTTPD_ARGS - >   "-DSSL"l7 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$CONFIG_FILE - ! >   SYS$MANAGER:APACHE$CONFIG.DATo* > $ temp1 := APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COME > $ if (f$search(temp1) .nes. "") then @APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COMu, > $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server > $ !9 > $ exit@ > $ SET NOVERIFY ! Required by CGI (else malformed header error): >   APACHE$WWW   job terminated at 24-SEP-2001 10:39:20.53 >  >   Accounting information:+F >   Buffered I/O count:               1521      Peak working set size: > 11968 B >   Direct I/O count:                  127      Peak virtual size: > 181936@ >   Page faults:                       732      Mounted volumes: > 0 E >   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.97      Elapsed time:       0O
 > 00:00:06.84N > B > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++( > And log file from APACHE$00 process is > , > $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server > $ !. > $ exit& > $!  Created: 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.17& > $ temp1 = f$environment("procedure")D > $ temp1 = f$parse(temp1,,,"device") + f$parse(temp1,,,"directory")G > $ @KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS]APACHE$$LOGICALS.COM % > $! Created: 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.08C4 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$SPECIFIC -5 >   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] -T% >   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL)S2 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$COMMON -% >   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.] -$% >   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL)t0 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$ROOT -5 >   KRONOS$DKB0:[EBUSINESS.APACHE.SPECIFIC.KRONOS.] - 5 >   /TRANSLATION=(CONCEALED,TERMINAL), APACHE$COMMON:h6 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$HTTPD_ARGS - >   "-DSSL"s7 > $ DEFINE/PROCESS/SUPERVISOR_MODE APACHE$CONFIG_FILE -*! >   SYS$MANAGER:APACHE$CONFIG.DAT** > $ temp1 := APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COME > $ if (f$search(temp1) .nes. "") then @APACHE$ROOT:[000000]LOGIN.COMR, > $ ! Login.Com for Apache HTTP (WWW) Server > $ !* > $ exit@ > $ SET NOVERIFY ! Required by CGI (else malformed header error)C > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of APACHE$00 has been superseded0 > J > ************************************************************************J > ************************************************************************8 > **  Starting APACHE$COMMON:[000000]APACHE$SERVER.COM;1 > **  24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.36CJ > ************************************************************************J > ************************************************************************ >  > I > 24-SEP-2001 10:38:48.37   User: APACHE$WWW       Process ID:   00000390mL >                           Node: KRONOS           Process name: "APACHE$00" >  > Terminal: + > User Identifier:    [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]D > Base priority:      4:* > Default file spec:  APACHE$ROOT:[000000] > Number of Kthreads: 1  >  > Process Quotas:  >  Account name: AP_HTTPDdH >  CPU limit:                      Infinite  Direct I/O limit:       300H >  Buffered I/O byte count quota:    199232  Buffered I/O limit:     300H >  Timer queue entry quota:             609  Open file quota:        297H >  Paging file quota:                246912  Subprocess quota:        20H >  Default page fault cluster:           64  AST quota:              609H >  Enqueue quota:                      2000  Shared file limit:        0H >  Max detached processes:                0  Max active jobs:          0 >  > Accounting information: C >  Buffered I/O count:        44  Peak working set size:       2288$C >  Direct I/O count:          25  Peak virtual size:         167504NC >  Page faults:              159  Mounted volumes:                0f  >  Images activated:           1+ >  Elapsed CPU time:          0 00:00:00.03 + >  Connect time:              0 00:00:00.13( >  > Authorized privileges: >  NETMBX       TMPMBX >  > Process privileges: 1 >  NETMBX               may create network device14 >  TMPMBX               may create temporary mailbox >  > Process rights: - >  APACHE$WWW                        resource  >  > System rights: >  SYS$NODE_KRONOS >  > Auto-unshelve: onb >  > Image Dump: off  >  > Soft CPU Affinity: off >  > Parse Style: Traditional > 
 > Home RAD: 0  >  > Scheduling class name: none1 >  > Process Dynamic Memory AreapN >   Current Size (Kb)               128.00   Current Size (Pagelets)       256N >   Free Space (Kb)                 114.18   Space in Use (Kb)           13.81N >   Largest Var Block (Kb)          113.93   Smallest Var Block (bytes)     16N >   Number of Free Blocks                6   Free Blocks LEQU 64 bytes       4 > ! > There is 1 process in this job:  >  >   APACHE$00 (*)0 >   APACHE$ROOT:[000000] >   =   APACHE$ROOT:[000000] >   =   APACHE$COMMON:[000000]. > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process APACHE$WWW_1 spawned0 > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process apache$JServ_1 spawned > ApacheJServ/1.1  > : >   APACHE$WWW   job terminated at 24-SEP-2001 10:39:26.12 >  >   Accounting information:aF >   Buffered I/O count:               1861      Peak working set size: > 131368B >   Direct I/O count:                  396      Peak virtual size: > 184992@ >   Page faults:                       807      Mounted volumes: > 0tE >   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:01.31      Elapsed time:       0 
 > 00:00:37.88  >  >  > -- > 6 > ---------------------------------------------------- > Gorazd Kikelj  > OpenVMS system support > Aster d.o.o.  > e-mail: gorazd.kikelj@aster.si > www:  www.aster.si >  >  >      -- O  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardse   Karl RohwedderB iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 E   E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.de4,           karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.de DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:36:35 +0200F. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si>Y Subject: Re: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to pora/ Message-ID: <GREr7.435$8v1.15126@news.siol.net>d  G "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in messagel& news:3BAF098A.8060101@volkswagen.de...? > May be, that the Port 80 directive exists multiple times. The - > installaiton guides has a section about it.: >r >T > Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > F > > I just installed CSWS 1.1 on VMS 7.3. (default instalation, except apache# > > root is on different directory)y > >c5 > > When I try to start the server, it does not work.c > >l! > > Process APACHE$00 is created.n > >VH > > Then processes APACHE$000*** are created. Then APACHE$WWW* processes apearesn > > and disapears.G > > Then APACHE$000* proceses also disaperas and reapears and all cikel  repeatsi > > in loop. > >e% > > Here is an insert from error_log.t > >l   Sorry no luck,  K I check all .conf files and there is no duplicate port or listen directivesAI in them. Then I try something else and find out, that when I have enabled D MOD_PERL, server does not run. If I disable mod_perl, server runs as	 expected.    but I need mod_perl.  9 Versions are PERL V5.005-03A2 and mod_perl CSWS_PERL V1.0n   best, Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:48:48 +0200t. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si>Y Subject: Re: CSWS - [crit] (48)address already in use  : make_sock: could not bind to por / Message-ID: <71Fr7.436$8v1.15224@news.siol.net>e   Hi   problem solved  4 When I instaled CSWS_PERL V1.0-1 problem disapeared.   best, Gorazd    9 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si> wrote in messageb) news:GREr7.435$8v1.15126@news.siol.net...  >tI > "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in messagee( > news:3BAF098A.8060101@volkswagen.de...A > > May be, that the Port 80 directive exists multiple times. The3/ > > installaiton guides has a section about it.  > >j > >c > > Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > >pH > > > I just installed CSWS 1.1 on VMS 7.3. (default instalation, except > apache% > > > root is on different directory)E > > >f7 > > > When I try to start the server, it does not work.i > > > # > > > Process APACHE$00 is created.h > > >oJ > > > Then processes APACHE$000*** are created. Then APACHE$WWW* processes	 > apeares! > > > and disapears.I > > > Then APACHE$000* proceses also disaperas and reapears and all cikelm	 > repeats@ > > > in loop. > > >a' > > > Here is an insert from error_log.n > > >s >- > Sorry no luck, >nB > I check all .conf files and there is no duplicate port or listen
 directivesK > in them. Then I try something else and find out, that when I have enabled F > MOD_PERL, server does not run. If I disable mod_perl, server runs as > expected.t >  > but I need mod_perl. >o; > Versions are PERL V5.005-03A2 and mod_perl CSWS_PERL V1.0t >  > best, Gorazd >n >e >h >w   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 03:47:30 -0700+ From: Nigel.White@sssltd.co.uk (Nige White)h Subject: Re: Easter Egg.= Message-ID: <39779b25.0109240247.36f3f596@posting.google.com>t  k Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message news:<howard-595C2A.23190621092001@enews.newsguy.com>... M > On the box that OpenVMS 7.2-2 and 7.3 come in (red and gray), take a close -L > look at the picture of the guy looking at the computer monitors.  See the 5 > monitor closest to the camera, and notice the logo.g > $ > Reported to CPQ earlier today. :-,   What is it?E   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 07:56:22 -0400e' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>" Subject: Re: Easter Egg < Message-ID: <howard-08B42D.07562124092001@enews.newsguy.com>  = In article <39779b25.0109240247.36f3f596@posting.google.com>, -  Nigel.White@sssltd.co.uk (Nige White) wrote:i  
 > What is it?>   It's a Sun logo.  L For those of y'all who -haven't- already told me this is Well Known, please M don't bother.  I've seen enough. <grin>  All I can say in my defense is that uD the people I spoke with at CPQ didn't seem to be aware of it either. -- e Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:50:18 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Easter Eggd/ Message-ID: <3BAF6410.1622D0D8@cableinet.co.uk>>   Nige White wrote:h > m > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message news:<howard-595C2A.23190621092001@enews.newsguy.com>...eN > > On the box that OpenVMS 7.2-2 and 7.3 come in (red and gray), take a closeM > > look at the picture of the guy looking at the computer monitors.  See the 7 > > monitor closest to the camera, and notice the logo.T > > & > > Reported to CPQ earlier today. :-, > 
 > What is it?g   its a Sun logo,    --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  p  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of a! my employers or service provider.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:30:12 +01001( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: ftp login failure) Message-ID: <3BAF0B34.B7E4F60B@127.0.0.1>4  $ system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > 5 > I have a user who can telnet in but can not ftp in.k  8 > He has a bog standard account, no access restrictions.> > I can both telnet in and ftp using my standard user account. >  > HELP!e > ? > Any clues as to what to look for would be deeply appreciated.e  H Case sensitivity. Some FTP implementations swap the case, or force case.E Even though VMS does the conversion, you can find that FTP manages tohD get a lowercase string presented to the password parser. "Too highly trained..."   F Try using quotes, or pairs of quotes around the password specificationF in an attempt to force the case. In my experience of using VMS to UNIX> and VMS to VMS (different FTP clients and servers) I have used9 "PASSWORD" and """PASSWORD""" to get around these issues.o  F Check the FTP logs, they may have more information, and also check theE way the username is presented, try experimenting with upper and loweraF case and see what effect that has reported in the logfile. May provide clues.  C It would be helpful if you described the server software and clientm software versions too.   -- l( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:46:10 -0500p+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu>s- Subject: Re: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MBnH Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109240843320.13828-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>   On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, sfm wrote:   + > Sorry folks but I am having a brain fart.a > C > What is the formula to translate free blocks into MB.  is it FreeO > Blocks / 1024 = Free MBs  E I doubt I'll be the first or only to answer, but haven't seen it yet.e  I 1 Block = 512 Bytes.  2 blocks = 1K.  So just divide by 2 (more or less.)    --  < I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,7 but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:35:16 -05000+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu>t- Subject: Re: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MBaH Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109240931450.13828-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>  , On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Ren=E9 Schelbaum wrote:   >=20@ > "Phil Mendelsohn" <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> schrieb im NewsbeitragD > news:Pine.SOL.4.20.0109240843320.13828-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu...# > > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, sfm wrote:a > > / > > > Sorry folks but I am having a brain fart.W > > > G > > > What is the formula to translate free blocks into MB.  is it Free0 > > > Blocks / 1024 =3D Free MBs > >AI > > I doubt I'll be the first or only to answer, but haven't seen it yet.. > >hL > > 1 Block =3D 512 Bytes.  2 blocks =3D 1K.  So just divide by 2 (more or = less.)A                                                               =20:   > Hi!1 >=20L > Actually you have to divide by 2000 or 2048, dependent on whether you say=  a" > meg is 1000 k or a meg is 1 k k.  F Of course that's what I meant.  The 3 zeroes get dropped instinctivelyI regardless of what my eye sees (in a file size), so thanks for keeping me0 honest.0   --=20 < I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,7 but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.D   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:26:02 GMT  From: sfm1115@bjc.org (sfm) ) Subject: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MB#1 Message-ID: <3baf3415.259331078@news.starnet.net>   ) Sorry folks but I am having a brain fart.t  A What is the formula to translate free blocks into MB.  is it Freer Blocks / 1024 = Free MB0   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:12:04 +0200U2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>- Subject: Re: HAving a Brain Fart on Blocks/MB G Message-ID: <3baf3e78$0$23790$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>   > "Phil Mendelsohn" <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> schrieb im NewsbeitragB news:Pine.SOL.4.20.0109240843320.13828-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu...! > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, sfm wrote:+ >+- > > Sorry folks but I am having a brain fart.  > > E > > What is the formula to translate free blocks into MB.  is it FreeO > > Blocks / 1024 = Free MBD >GG > I doubt I'll be the first or only to answer, but haven't seen it yet.A >.K > 1 Block = 512 Bytes.  2 blocks = 1K.  So just divide by 2 (more or less.)2 >$ > --> > I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,9 > but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.C >Y >    Hi!F  K Actually you have to divide by 2000 or 2048, dependent on whether you say aG  meg is 1000 k or a meg is 1 k k.   regardsO   Ren Schelbaum   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:40:35 -04002* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>, Subject: RE: I am Adam H. Kerman your master- Message-ID: <0033000036182280000002L002*@MHS>S   =0AUsenet, (n)  6 A loosely connected messaging system which enables one5 to display one's stupidity worldwide with astonishingS	 rapidity.C   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETS* > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 5:39 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET. > Subject: RE: I am Adam H. Kerman your master >E >OA > And just like every other dick head that has tried to take overC> > something in the 20th century. You will fall and be nothing.H > Have a great time taking over Usernet. Im shore we will all make othe= ro > newsgroups elsewhere.e >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:15:26 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e/ Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (was World Trade Cente)ri8 Message-ID: <tnttqt49ttumb2trpqjti7kc8r9cntshpu@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:52:28 -0400, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:    ' >I'm afraid to contemplate what's next.u >:G >Please, no suggestions, better be careful of what's asked for, it may i >happen.  F In that case: Ken Olsen puts in a bid for tor the "new HP" and renames+ the company "Digital Equipment Corporation"+  = Found this 1999 interview http://www.wbjournal.com/52499R.HTMo   Selected quote:H  C "What do you think about the way Digital was run by your successor,.B Robert Palmer, until the company was acquired by Compaq last year?  = Oh, you never ask a retired chairman what he thinks about hisBB successors. The one thing which, of course, changed, and the thingD which the board of directors never did understand was the way we ran9 the business units, where we gave responsibility. And the.D stockholders, analysts and the board got impatient with this idea ofA having individuals have responsibility, and the chairman [giving] F leadership but in a quiet way. They liked forceful, dynamic, decisive,D sometimes mean and cruel [leadership]. And so they criticized me forE not firing people and things like that. It's a new world now, and theP@ world of getting jobs done by people is gone. I still think it's better to work with people."     >DaveF   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:05:05 GMTM' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>@9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1H- Message-ID: <3BAF04C3.50B71D33@theblakes.com>E  ? No, the pthread upcall support isn't available on the VAX side.R   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:23:35 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.4 last one available on VMS V7.1*= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0109240923.46575387@posting.google.com>O  u system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote in message news:<00A024C5.A427709E@SendSpamHere.ORG>...*Y > In article <3BA8F724.F4590E9D@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:*E > >How many people are still on 7.1-2? Is it still in wide use? PriorI) > >version support for it ends this year.  > L > I am and I also have one box running UCX 4.2.  The latter because it has a* > feature that was dropped in TCP/IP V5.0.  E TCPWARE runs circles around UCX for both features and reliability ...rE TCPWARE is based on the VMS kernel, UCX is unix, and based on our webm serverE testing there sure is a difference in crispness ... SMTP is superior, = everything is ... So the question is, why are you runnig UCX?m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:11:50 -0400n' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>r( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center( Message-ID: <9ones4$lha$1@pyrite.mv.net>  B "David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in message, news:nS6vO+B3BOTyoD0jA29vyLUcefVO@4ax.com...G > On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:22:21 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>n > wrote: >e > > E > >"David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in messagen/ > >news:ziuqO+Gccw2pF6o5IjEAa4OPLand@4ax.com...N > >P > >... > > 5 > >>     From http://www.usconstitution.net/const.txtI > >>H > >> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a freeG > >> State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be  > >> infringed.M > >>D > >>     The meaning of the Militia at that time was all able-bodied > >> male citizens.  > > J > >Largely because all such, rather than specialized enforcement agencies, wereC > >assumed to take shared responsibility for the common protection.  > >o2 > >  Since the Bill of Rights primarily spells out? > >> rights, the proper meaning is exactly what the main clause ? > >> states, that the right of the people to keep and bear Armso > >> shall not be infringed. > > K > >The qualification 'well regulated', and the explanation 'being necessary  toL > >the security of a free State', make it clear that the intent of the right is5 > >for the common (as distinct from individual) good.u >r8 >     Absolutely not.  Why would a "collective" right be2 > defined in the middle of a document that defines6 > individual rights and government powers?  The answer7 > is there is no such thing as a collective right, only  > individual ones.  L Read what I wrote.  I didn't say anything about a 'collective right', simplyJ about the explicitly-expressed basis for the individual right, in contrastK to your assertion below ("The right is a proper right in that it stems from8J the right of self-defense, which stems from the right to self-ownership").   >3J > >Whether the explanation still holds is questionable.  But the extension ofE > >the right is sufficiently unambiguous that attempting to change it1 withoutp7 > >enacting a Constitutional amendment would be unwise.- > >- > >>D > >>     The right is a proper right in that it stems from the rightC > >> of self-defense, which stems from the right to self-ownership.: > >.I > >The wording in the Constitution quite clearly indicates that the righta stems @ > >from the right/obligation of *community* defense (see above). >  >     No.  See above.0   Yes.  See above.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:17:04 +0100i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center) Message-ID: <3BAF3250.5057B4DC@127.0.0.1>-   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > John Saunders wrote: > > = > > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message8+ > > news:87u1xvldwe.fsf@prep.synonet.com...o3 > > > "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com> writes:. > > >tN > > > > You are referring to "Behind the Veil", a special report by Saira Shah > > ofO > > > > Independant Television News in London. Yesterday's showing was a repeatp7 > > > > airing - it originally aired several weeks ago.  > > > > N > > > > Given that Ms. Shah works for ITN, I doubt the piece was made for CNN. > > >a' > > > Wasn't it a Channel 4 production?f > >tK > > Not as far as I know (considering I don't know which "Channel 4" you're  > > referring to). > > > Is not "Channel 4" the UK equivalent of the US's PBS (Public > Broadcasting System)?e  H Channel 4 is one of the independent terrestrial TV companies financed by> advertising. They have no studios of their own, the building /F transmission suites comprise only continuity suites and the ability toA show film and video, with banks and banks of video tape machines.eE OpenVMS plays a roll in their broadcasting operation (certainly a fewnH years ago not sure about now). They can also take 'live' feeds, but most" of their 'shows' are commissioned.  E (Admittedly the technology may have changed since I looked around the  place)  D Both ITV and Channel 4 use ITN, which is a news service also feedingA radio (formerly IRN) and there is also a 24 hour ITN news channelWF similar to the BBC news24. (Ive not paid enough attention to Channel 53 to know but I think they are ITN sourced news too).   E ITN have news presenters that appear only on one channel or the othera+ typically, but reporters on either or both.r  F ITN produced documentaries appear on either ITV (1) or C4 depending onF the target audience and material. I would hesitate drawing comparisonsE between the channels, but ITV is more mainstream, where C4 broadcasts H more 'questionable' material. C4 finds itself typically being questioned) by broadcasting regulators more than ITV.   D Documentaries for each channel can also be independently produced as well.f  D This is NOT to say that anything broadcast on C4 has less value, but> they take more risks and are prepared to show things with less( consideration to gaining viewer ratings.  > web sites http://itn.co.uk/ http://channel4.com/ (can't verify
 currently)  ( I hope that explains it reasonably well. --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:06:26 -0400e5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> ( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center2 Message-ID: <nS6vO+B3BOTyoD0jA29vyLUcefVO@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:22:21 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>d wrote:   >IC >"David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in messagem- >news:ziuqO+Gccw2pF6o5IjEAa4OPLand@4ax.com...n >o >... >W3 >>     From http://www.usconstitution.net/const.txt- >>F >> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a freeE >> State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not beD
 >> infringed.9 >>B >>     The meaning of the Militia at that time was all able-bodied >> male citizens.n >:M >Largely because all such, rather than specialized enforcement agencies, were A >assumed to take shared responsibility for the common protection.  >t0 >  Since the Bill of Rights primarily spells out= >> rights, the proper meaning is exactly what the main clauseg= >> states, that the right of the people to keep and bear Arms- >> shall not be infringed. > L >The qualification 'well regulated', and the explanation 'being necessary toM >the security of a free State', make it clear that the intent of the right ise3 >for the common (as distinct from individual) good.6  6     Absolutely not.  Why would a "collective" right be0 defined in the middle of a document that defines4 individual rights and government powers?  The answer5 is there is no such thing as a collective right, onlyo individual ones.  K >Whether the explanation still holds is questionable.  But the extension of K >the right is sufficiently unambiguous that attempting to change it withoutu5 >enacting a Constitutional amendment would be unwise.- >- >>B >>     The right is a proper right in that it stems from the rightA >> of self-defense, which stems from the right to self-ownership.- > M >The wording in the Constitution quite clearly indicates that the right stemss> >from the right/obligation of *community* defense (see above).       No.  See above.o   >>E >>     As far as the constitutionality of all the gun laws, that's ane >> entirely different subject. >f@ >The phrase 'well regulated' is quite suggestive in this regard. >s >- bille >m >,  ;     The right of self-defense is even more suggestive.  See. also the 9th Amendment:   E The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be d= construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.e  7 This clearly means what it says: while the Constitution-= enumerates rights, it does not mean the ones here are all the  rights there are..   David R. Beattyf   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:21:50 +0000e  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com( Subject: Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Center/ Message-ID: <00256AD1.0059E59D.00@quegw01.btyp>c  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    L Not really - it's just the 4th mainstream terrestrial TV channel after BBC1,M BBC2, ITV. We also have Channel 5, which I think might be more like PBS, as I. recall PBS [a long time ago].e   Cheers   Steve Sh        E "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> on 09/22/2001 04:11:56 PMo    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)dO From:      "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>, 22 September 2001, 4:11             p.m.V   Re: OT:: Re: World Trade Centerr         John Saunders wrote: >"; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messages) > news:87u1xvldwe.fsf@prep.synonet.com...c1 > > "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com> writes:m > >gL > > > You are referring to "Behind the Veil", a special report by Saira Shah > ofM > > > Independant Television News in London. Yesterday's showing was a repeata5 > > > airing - it originally aired several weeks ago.c > > >CL > > > Given that Ms. Shah works for ITN, I doubt the piece was made for CNN. > >a% > > Wasn't it a Channel 4 production?r > I > Not as far as I know (considering I don't know which "Channel 4" you're  > referring to).  < Is not "Channel 4" the UK equivalent of the US's PBS (Public Broadcasting System)?0   -- David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsv http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:22:09 -0400n2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>Y Subject: PRESS Release - PRI to Support product on Compaq's future Itanium Based OpenVMS  1 Message-ID: <xjHr7.543$YP.18436@news.cpqcorp.net>P   Thought you might be interested-   sue-H ________________________________________________________________________  + PRI Automation to Support Flagship Softwarev>                      Product on Compaq's Future ItaniumT-Based&                      OpenVMST Platform  =                          Long-Term  Strategic Decision to use % Industry-Standard Technology Platforme@                           Expected to Provide Virtually non-stop# Manufacturing Operations  for PRI'sSG                                             Semiconductor Customer Baset  I                      Billerica, MA - September 21, 2001 - PRI Automation,t Inc. (Nasdaq: PRIA,/E                      TSE:PRJ), a global leader in advanced automatione" systems, software and services forL                      the semiconductor industry, has announced its intention to continue use of Compaq G                      Computer Corporation's OpenVMST platform. PRI willy  migrate its industry-leading andI                      award-winning PROMIS manufacturing execution system  (MES) software product tonK                      future Compaq ItaniumT -based OpenVMS systems. PROMIS,n the industry's mostnF                      mature and feature-rich MES software platform, is! central to PRI Automation's P300T I                      factory management integrated software solution that- provides a complete CIM D                      system for semiconductor and integrated circuit manufacturers.  H                      "We will support Compaq's OpenVMS platform into the foreseeable future and in factC                      have several important updates that we will ber% announcing soon that will continue to I                      add value to the PROMIS product set as semiconductorr manufacturing transitions toL                      300mm wafers," said Jim Golden, vice president, Factory Management Software for7                      PRI.e  I                      "OpenVMS is proven in manufacturing systems all overe the world owing to itsI                      reliability, scalability and excellent performance,"+$ said Richard Vatcher, vice presidentK                      of PRI's Software Division. "It will continue to allowB  the PROMIS dual machine and highG                      availability modules to provide virtually non-stopt manufacturing operations to our1L                      OpenVMS customer base. With Compaq's commitment to port OpenVMS to the IntelrK                      Itanium processor family, this will ensure that PROMISa will be a viable solution forF&                      many more years."  F                      PRI will be one of the first suppliers to receive Compaq's OpenVMS Itanium-basedK                      hardware to begin the port. Both Compaq and Intel haver committed significant jointlJ                      resources and technology in bringing Compaq operating system environments andSH                      applications portfolios to Itanium-based enterprise servers.  D                      Mark Gorham, vice president of Compaq's OpenVMS Software Group said "Compaq-F                      considers PRI to be a leading supplier of OpenVMS manufacturing software for theK                      semiconductor industry and we've had a long and valuedR relationship with them to C                      bring FAB productivity solutions to our mutualt  customers. With PRI's PROMIS MESJ                      software and services, and Compaq's OpenVMS operating system, semiconductorlA                      manufacturers worldwide have realized 24x365-& availability and scalability, enablingH                      them to more effectively compete and win in today's aggressive markets. I believe)I                      that PRI Automation's decision to support OpenVMS onS the Intel Itanium processor G                      family platform, as well as the Compaq AlphaServer' platform, gives customers thesI                      highest levels of investment protection as well as a  clear roadmap well into the 0                      current decade and beyond."  )                      About PRI Automation9  F                      PRI Automation, Inc., headquartered in Billerica," Massachusetts, is a leading globalE                      supplier of advanced factory automation systems,q software, and services that C                      optimize the productivity of semiconductor ands& precision electronics manufacturers asL                      well as OEM process tool manufacturers. PRI is the only company to provide a tightlyK                      integrated and flexible hardware and software solutiona that optimizes the flow ofK                      products, data, materials and resources throughout thee production chain. The B                      company has thousands of systems installed at# approximately one hundred locationseJ                      throughout the world. For more information, visit PRI online at www.pria.com.b  *                      Safe Harbor Statement  F                      This release includes forward-looking statements,5 including, without limitation, statements relating torL                      the expected benefits of PRI Automation products. These) forward-looking statements are subject to.L                      risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results, to differ materially from those expressed or?                      implied by such statements. Such risks and 6 uncertainties include the manner in which the customerK                      uses the products and integrates them with third-partyc' components and the following additionalhG                      factors: the downturn in the semiconductor capitalr+ equipment industry is harming our business;hK                      fluctuating demand for our products makes it difficulta+ to manage our business efficiently; we haverF                      reduced our workforce in response to the industry0 downturn and reduced demand for our products andF                      our smaller workforce may be inadequate to handle) increased demand for our products; we mayb@                      continue to experience delays and technical7 difficulties with new product introductions such as ournH                      TurboStocker product; 300mm technology, in which we, have invested heavily, is being adopted moreL                      slowly than we expected and competition for early 300mm* orders is intense; our lengthy sales cycleJ                      makes it difficult to anticipate sales; our operating0 results fluctuate significantly in response to aJ                      variety of factors; delay in our shipment of a single2 significant order could substantially decrease ourJ                      sales for a period; the application of new accounting, guidance under SEC Staff Accounting BulletinE                      number 101 will result in delayed recognition oft0 revenues from our factory automation systems; weC                      typically charge a fixed price for our factory 6 automation systems and therefore, we are vulnerable toJ                      cost overruns; we have a limited number of customers,! we do not have long-term purchaseeA                      agreements with our customers, and the loss,f1 cancellation or delay of an order by any of these K                      customers could harm our business; we must continuallyt& improve our technology and develop newD                      products to remain competitive; demand for less1 expensive semiconductor is increasing pressure tosB                      reduce our prices; industry consolidation and0 outsourcing could reduce the number of availableK                      customers; our operations outside North America expose % us to special risks of doing businessiI                      internationally; our investments in the Asia-Pacific 1 market may not be successful; we face significant H                      competition from other automation companies; future/ acquisitions may disrupt our operations; we areuJ                      increasingly dependent on subcontractors and one or a$ few suppliers of certain components,K                      subassemblies and manufacturing processes; the failure"* of our key suppliers to deliver componentsF                      on time could harm our business; we depend on our/ executive officers and other key personnel; ourlL                      software products may contain defects that could result* in claims and harm our business; we may beI                      unable to protect our proprietary technology; others>. might claim that we infringe their technology;C                      rising energy costs may increase our operatingg0 expenses; we are subject to pending class actionJ                      securities litigation that could be costly to defend,. divert the attention of our management and, ifC                      determined adversely to us, seriously harm our-- business; and other factors identified in our D                      registration statement on Form S-3, file number0 333-60180, filed with the SEC on May 3, 2001. WeG                      assume no obligation to update any forward-lookingu$ statements included in this release.  ;                                                       # # #w  H                      PROMIS is a registered trademark of PRI Automation,* Inc. Compaq, the Compaq logo, AlphaServer,E                      and OpenVMS are trademarks of Compaq Informatione. Technologies Group, L.P. Intel and Itanium areJ                      trademarks of Intel Corporation. All other trademarks* contained herein are the property of their'                      respective owners.       3                      For more information, contact:t  #                      Media Contact: 1                      Stauch, Vetromile & Mitchelln"                      Dave Anderson!                      401-438-0614l'                      dave@svmmarcom.com B                                                       PRI Contact:J                                                       PRI Automation, Inc.F                                                       Michelle Goodall FaulknerH                                                       978-670-4270 x3161H                                                       mfaulkner@pria.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 08:47:26 -0700! From: hemanir@yahoo.com (Anamika)m/ Subject: Re: Question: Limiting Processor Usage)= Message-ID: <5130f039.0109240747.749ecebe@posting.google.com>o  J You can experiment with authorize and modify the CPUTIME of the UID of theD process. If the process is currently authorized for a certain amount- of CPUTIME, decrease it and see what happens. ) more help can be found in Authorize util.e    g Jim Valley <jim_v50@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message news:<Xns91218AF0981Ajimv50NOSPAMcom@140.99.99.130>...i > Hello all, > O > Is there any way I can limit the PERCENTAGE of processor used by a process?  d > K > I have a process that spikes every couple of minutes while it performs a oJ > query, but I'd like to limit it to use only 10% of the processor at any 
 > given time.d >  > Thanks and kind regards, >  > Jime   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:16:44 +0100h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: Really Unhackable...????e) Message-ID: <3BAF080C.194E8F53@127.0.0.1>    Jack Patteeuw wrote:W > The most common VMS hack is a "wet hack" (convincing a human to give up a password or T > using a simple password for important accounts).  Read the book "The Kukoo's (sp?)' > Egg" about the "early days"  hacking.   E From  what I remember about reading the book (Cuckoo's Egg), it was aeH UNIX system with an accounting package, where there was some discrepancyD between the systems' own, and a homebrew accounting package by a fewH cents which started the trail. I don't recall VMS systems being involvedH but tis about 8 years or more since I read the book, which reads well as I do recall.   -- w( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comF   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 07:47:03 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r% Subject: Re: Really Unhackable...????o3 Message-ID: <ILR+JKJyMkia@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  T In article <3BAF080C.194E8F53@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > G > From  what I remember about reading the book (Cuckoo's Egg), it was a,J > UNIX system with an accounting package, where there was some discrepancyF > between the systems' own, and a homebrew accounting package by a fewJ > cents which started the trail. I don't recall VMS systems being involvedJ > but tis about 8 years or more since I read the book, which reads well as > I do recall. >   G    There is a paragraph or two about having multiple operating systems tF    being good.  Automated attacks propogating from one UNIX system to D    the other had also tried themselves against VMS and failed.  The B    notion was simply that an attack against OS A would likely fail6    against OS B, so at least some systems would be OK.  <    IIRC VMS was specifically mentioned (my copy is at home).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:21:48 -0400e( From: "Thomas Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>0 Subject: Running successfull txt2pdf on openVMS?/ Message-ID: <tqujvbbdbtmk04@corp.supernews.com>n  K Is anyone running the txt2pdf conversion utility (converts txt files to pdfgG files) successfully on OpenVMS?  I installed C and installed txt2pdf as H indicated in the instructions and I get all kinds of compilation errors.+ Does anyone have an exe file I can acquire?i   Thanks,  Tom Steuver    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:06:03 +0200 & From: "pj" <PeterJan.Rusch@Compaq.com>) Subject: Re: Samba on OpenVMS protection.u1 Message-ID: <m5Hr7.540$YP.18409@news.cpqcorp.net>b   Btw I do not use ACL's.h   Still  not working.e  . digital.com compaq.com hp.com wat's in a name.  ) Its Openvms that counts and will survive.e   gr,i   PJ   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 07:30:59 -0700! From: russ@gordon.edu (manrubble)  Subject: Sophos and PMDF= Message-ID: <53e4993e.0109240630.16b4eb79@posting.google.com>l   Alpha 1200, 512mb, Openvms 7.2 
 PMDF 5.2.x  E We are testing Sophos Vsweep for thirty day's.  Currently it is setupe> to run as a batch.    To date it has eradicated approx. 60,000E infected e-mails (we have over 1500 students so this doesn't surprisecC me).   My question to the tech's at Sophos was, "How do I integrateaB PMDF with VSWEEP so files are scanned before the reach the user(s). mailbox."  They told me to check with Process.  F Has anyone integrated Sophos and PMDF successfully?  I assume it's viaD the conversion channel, but I was wondering if there is another way.  
 best regards,2   russ   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:56:01 -0600 (MDT)l" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> Subject: Re: Sophos and PMDFF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109240847250.6556-100000@athena.csdco.com>  C It works fine - the below is right out of Process web site with thee2 exception that the virii and headers are archived.   pmdf.cnf   ! Rewrite rule for testing ! : testing.csdco.com                        $U%$D@tcp-testing  ) tcp_testing smtp single_sys queue stoppeda TCP-TESTINGf   conversions.  & in-channel=*; out-channel=tcp_testing;#  in-type=application; in-subtype=*;--  parameter-symbol-0=NAME; parameter-copy-0=*;C3  dparameter-symbol-0=FILENAME; dparameter-copy-0=*;e/  message-header-file=2; original-header-file=1;h  override-header-file=1;!  command="@pmdf_table:vsweep.com"    in-channel=*; out-channel=*;#  in-type=application; in-subtype=*;h-  parameter-symbol-0=NAME; parameter-copy-0=*;l3  dparameter-symbol-0=FILENAME; dparameter-copy-0=*; /  message-header-file=2; original-header-file=1;i  override-header-file=1;!  command="@pmdf_table:vsweep.com"/  
 vsweep.com  # $ vsweep:==$pmdf:[vsweep]vsweep_axp, $ run pmdf_exe:unique_id= $ vsweep 'INPUT_FILE'/ff/ns/il/macv/output=vs-'unique_id'.lis:7 $ if sweep$_status .nes. "SWEEP$_VIRUS" then goto cleane' $ copy 'INPUT_FILE' pmdf:[vsweep.virii]H, $ copy 'INPUT_HEADERS' pmdf:[vsweep.headers]. $ copy 'MESSAGE_HEADERS' pmdf:[vsweep.headers]0 $ copy pmdf_table:delete_virus.txt 'OUTPUT_FILE' $ define/job OUTPUT_TYPE TEXTu! $ define/job OUTPUT_SUBTYPE PLAIN  $ define/job OUTPUT_MODE TEXTF! $ define/job OUTPUT_ENCODING NONE  $ delete vs-'unique_id'.lis; $ exit $! $ clean:# $ rename 'INPUT_FILE' 'OUTPUT_FILE'  $ delete vs-'unique_id'.lis;  
 John Nebel      On 24 Sep 2001, manrubble wrote:   > Alpha 1200, 512mb,
 > Openvms 7.2  > PMDF 5.2.x > G > We are testing Sophos Vsweep for thirty day's.  Currently it is setupB@ > to run as a batch.    To date it has eradicated approx. 60,000G > infected e-mails (we have over 1500 students so this doesn't surprisegE > me).   My question to the tech's at Sophos was, "How do I integraterD > PMDF with VSWEEP so files are scanned before the reach the user(s)0 > mailbox."  They told me to check with Process. > H > Has anyone integrated Sophos and PMDF successfully?  I assume it's viaF > the conversion channel, but I was wondering if there is another way. >  > best regards,  >  > russ >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:22:32 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> , Subject: Re: Uninstall global section in DCLH Message-ID: <y4wv2pngl3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  I > :Is the section written to disk a last time when it is deleted (installa > :ou $dgblsc)? 7 >   I tend to use $updsecw before deleting the section.   3 That is wearing a belt _and_ suspenders, is it not?    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:41:07 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>t# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancenH Message-ID: <y4ofo1nfq4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   E > If your traders are in Manhattan but your main and backup sites areiN > off-island, it means that your day-to-day operations die whenever there is aM > communication problem. If your data center is in same building as traders,  3 > you remove a potentially weak link in your chain.w  M In addition (and though it may seem cynical), your data centre isn't much usea& if you no longer have users to use it.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:40:03 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> # Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancelH Message-ID: <y4r8sxnfrw.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   G > I know someone in the Boston area whose extra-cost "separate routing"iD > circuits to the midwest a few years ago were both knocked out by aD > single construction incident in the New York City/New Jersey area.  I Did they put a penalty clause such as "if ever a single incident leads toSN circuit failure, you have to pay back all the extra cost for seperate routing" in the contract?   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:42:27 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>f# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancetH Message-ID: <y4lmj5nfnw.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   G > > You can also cluster with Charon-VAX systems running on cheap PC's. 4 > > I've tested that, and it does work quite nicely.I > Would you be happy if your bank ran its funds transfers program on a PC  > emulator of VMS ?d  / AFAIK, the emulator now also runs on VMS Alpha.i   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:21:50 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance 8 Message-ID: <00A02828.219CBE97@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   In article <y4lmj5nfnw.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:0 >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > H >> > You can also cluster with Charon-VAX systems running on cheap PC's.5 >> > I've tested that, and it does work quite nicely.tJ >> Would you be happy if your bank ran its funds transfers program on a PC >> emulator of VMS ? >t0 >AFAIK, the emulator now also runs on VMS Alpha.  7 That's what it says on the demo CD I picked up at CETS.i   -- Alann  O ===============================================================================s0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210,O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 05:56:01 -0700 (PDT)a. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancen? Message-ID: <20010924125601.2352.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>e  . Using a "legacy"  platform as Mission Critical+ is not what we can say - a safe investment.t  - It is why I ask people here why do they still  using VAXes...=20e  - In my opinion the upgrades should be the bestw  choice for these old systems.=20  6 How can I rebuild a cluster after a disaster if the=200 boards are not available anymore in the market ?  Why people still using PDPs ????  1 It is a non responsable act inside the companies.      Regards    FC=20h    2 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:6 > After the WTC disaster, someone posted a note asking > for anyone with a certaind6 > vax model number to eventually rebuild their cluster > now that they had lost) > the node(s) in the destroyed buildings.s >=205 > I am curious as to what policies corporations wouldm > have with regards to6 > end-of-lifed hardware in disaster tolerant  /mission > critical systems.r >=206 > While a vax cluster may be built as mission critical > disaster tolerant system. > and last a very long time, what happens when# > replacement hardware is no longerf > available ?=20 >=205 > A disaster may very well allow you to switch to thed > backup site easily, butt5 > when the time comes to rebuild your main site, what  > will you do ? A migration3. > to another platform (Alpha or Intel) will be > necessary, right ? >=206 > Would corporations insist that current VAXes used in > a mission critical bee1 > migrated to Alpha as soon as VAX hardware is no  > longer available from theo4 > vendor, would they tolerate buying second hand VAX > machines as replacemenst in 3 > case one fails, or would they remain blind to theh > problem until a disaster1 > happens and they realise they can't replace the  > loast machines ?     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DiL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=  http://im.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 06:15:28 -0700 (PDT)f. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancee? Message-ID: <20010924131528.8870.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>    In my personal opinion,r  - after this disaster at WTC the companies willi) think much more in outsource their sites. , So, they will give to Compaq or HP all their6 datacenters to manage the OpenVMS systems for example.0 What mean thei will suggest change the platform.     Regardse   FC=20e  / --- "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:i2 > On 22 Sep 2001, at 18:24, Larry Kilgallen wrote:3 > > But when half of your disaster-tolerant clusterl > goes away permanently,) > > you need more machines to regain youru" > disaster-tolerant cluster.  This- > > is true even if your processing continues  > uninterrupted, and even if > > the cause was a hurricane. >=203 > Agreed.  You have some incentive to have at least  > one "extra" machine=20 > at each site.e >=202 > It seems weird, but you could still do this with > Alpha, even if=20 3 > you've never migrated to Alpha.  Alphas can sharer > SCSI disks with=206 > VAX, providing an extra data path to critical shared > files.  You can=20. > even boot VAX cluster members from an Alpha. >=206 > You can also cluster with Charon-VAX systems running > on cheap PC's.  =20n2 > I've tested that, and it does work quite nicely. >=205 > You might depend on your hardware vendor to come upe > with a=20t5 > replacement machine.  Now (and at regular intervals  > in the future)=20s1 > would be a good time to make sure your hardware, > vendor *has* some=20( > machines sitting on a shelf somewhere. >=20 >=204 > The real issue is:  Do you want to invest money to > prepare for a=20 > disaster?  >=202 > Most companies don't put their money where their > mouth is.  That's=205 > something for their shareholders to ask at the next  > annual meeting...t >=20 >=20 > --Stan >=20 > ----------6 > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363 =20 > Fax: +1 614 868-16713 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147g, > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com     =20 > http://www.stanq.com >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dt F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?L Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger=  http://im.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:29:39 +0200v7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@getronics.com> # Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerance O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6790@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   ? > >> > You can also cluster with Charon-VAX systems running on  
 > cheap PC's. 7 > >> > I've tested that, and it does work quite nicely. = > >> Would you be happy if your bank ran its funds transfers c > program on a PC- > >> emulator of VMS ? > >S2 > >AFAIK, the emulator now also runs on VMS Alpha. > 9 > That's what it says on the demo CD I picked up at CETS.g  : The emulator only runs for MicroVaxes and not for VAX7800.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:27:48 +0200r7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@getronics.com>i# Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerance O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C678F@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>i   > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Vorbrueggeni: > [mailto:jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de]' > Sent: maandag 24 september 2001 10:41p > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd% > Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancee >  > 1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:d > G > > If your traders are in Manhattan but your main and backup sites are = > > off-island, it means that your day-to-day operations die - > whenever there is a,: > > communication problem. If your data center is in same  > building as traders, R5 > > you remove a potentially weak link in your chain.3 > : > In addition (and though it may seem cynical), your data  > centre isn't much usei( > if you no longer have users to use it.  2 It sounds cynical, but you can always hire users, 2 but it takes more time to build up the datacenter.  @ Also the users can walk out of the building and are saved first,: but the datacenter(s) is/are always left in the building.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:45:59 +0200r7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>r# Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerance O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6791@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>s  ? Why should you upgrade if the mission critical part is still=20c= running for ten years. In bussiness there is the golden rule.  "Never change a winning team."  = The only thing you need to do is to have a spare sets or haven- a contract with a partner that has spares.=20n  A If you keep upgrading just because the manufactor is takenover oriE started a new product line. A lot of money is wasted and companies=20b? take decisitions based on money and not on what is responsable.h  A If they took it on responsibility, we would have a cleaner world.h       > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]I' > Sent: maandag 24 september 2001 14:56  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr% > Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerancel >=20 >=200 > Using a "legacy"  platform as Mission Critical- > is not what we can say - a safe investment.g >=20/ > It is why I ask people here why do they stillt > using VAXes...=20h >=20/ > In my opinion the upgrades should be the best " > choice for these old systems.=20 >=208 > How can I rebuild a cluster after a disaster if the=202 > boards are not available anymore in the market ?" > Why people still using PDPs ???? >=203 > It is a non responsable act inside the companies.1 >=20 >=20	 > RegardsT >=20 > FC=20< >=20 >=204 > --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:8 > > After the WTC disaster, someone posted a note asking > > for anyone with a certainr8 > > vax model number to eventually rebuild their cluster > > now that they had lost+ > > the node(s) in the destroyed buildings.e > >=207 > > I am curious as to what policies corporations wouldy > > have with regards to8 > > end-of-lifed hardware in disaster tolerant  /mission > > critical systems.o > >=208 > > While a vax cluster may be built as mission critical > > disaster tolerant system0 > > and last a very long time, what happens when% > > replacement hardware is no longere > > available ?=20 > >=207 > > A disaster may very well allow you to switch to the  > > backup site easily, buti7 > > when the time comes to rebuild your main site, what- > > will you do ? A migration90 > > to another platform (Alpha or Intel) will be > > necessary, right ? > >=208 > > Would corporations insist that current VAXes used in > > a mission critical be 3 > > migrated to Alpha as soon as VAX hardware is not > > longer available from thee6 > > vendor, would they tolerate buying second hand VAX > > machines as replacemenst inv5 > > case one fails, or would they remain blind to theM > > problem until a disaster3 > > happens and they realise they can't replace thei > > loast machines ? >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D. > =eI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=u =3D=3D > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > =sI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D >=204 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with=20w& > Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:02:53 +0100m* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com># Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerance M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E3D6@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   I We use VAXes in a Business Critical environment - We can't modify some ofnF the legacy code without having to reinvent the wheel, due to a portionL having been written in-house without proper control over source code (We are not unusual in that one!).J The cost of porting to Alpha's, when the licenses, programming & man hoursL are involved, just aren't justifiable. We don't need the processing power ofJ Alpha's, so what is our motive to spend X amount for no business benefit ?   Regards-   Andrew Robinson    -----Original Message-----5 From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]c Sent: 24 September 2001 13:56v To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu# Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance/    . Using a "legacy"  platform as Mission Critical+ is not what we can say - a safe investment.o  - It is why I ask people here why do they stillU using VAXes... v  - In my opinion the upgrades should be the bestw choice for these old systems.   4 How can I rebuild a cluster after a disaster if the 0 boards are not available anymore in the market ?  Why people still using PDPs ????  1 It is a non responsable act inside the companies.i     Regards!   FC a   <SNIP>   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 11:02:43 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) # Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance 3 Message-ID: <j1ZXp+3v3PhG@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  b In article <tqpigq36b3cn57@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:M > Strangely enough - We have had 3 calls from Compaq already (different partseI > of the organisation) looking for 7800 parts and systems - as have otherw/ > vendors with whom we deal on a regular basis.tJ > Seems Compaq (unlike the Digital we all knew and loved) have carried the' > JUST IN TIME concept to WAY TOO LATE.y > L > The fact that people had these big beasts under maintenance suggests to meM > that Compaq ought to have had a few "Hot-Spares" ready to be either trucked-' > or flown in within a few hours noticer >  > Not so it seems....i > DT >   E This was one of the many reasons we changed hardware support vendors.nF The one we are currently using has one of each type of machine we haveD under contract _running_ at their location.  That way when somethingF breaks they have a hot spare that was working when they pulled it out  to bring it to our location.     ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 01:30:01 -0700( From: andrew@akplus.com (Andrew Kendall) Subject: Re: VAX DOCUMENT-= Message-ID: <2c1abc0a.0109240030.128be1c4@posting.google.com>n  + Thank you, Jan-Erik, you solved my problem.   4 Defining the logicals didn't work, but including the, <HTML_OPTIONS>(MANUAL_SEGMENTATION) tag did.   Well done and thanks again.p   Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:47:19 +0100b, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX DOCUMENT! Off Topic but On Tool1 Message-ID: <pwCr7.520$YP.18196@news.cpqcorp.net>n  J Does anyone have a pointer to a command procedure called PRETTY.COM, whichK reformats SDML in standard ways (the standard is its own, but at least it'smG consistent)? It's not on the freeware CD; maybe it was just an internal- tool.-   Thanks   be  I ps - As many replies have implied, but none has said explicitly, the nameaD 'VAX DOCUMENT' applied only to V2.1 and earlier. The current name is 'DECdocument'.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 10:26:50 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: VAX-Alpha Migration: COBOL/BASIC/FMSa= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0109240926.3e7fb211@posting.google.com>b   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4010D708A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...r > Norm,  > F > >>> Does anyone have any tips on what compiler options we should use? > and/or what to watch out for when recompiling the pieces? >>>- > I > A few references which might be helpful with any VAX to Alpha migrationn > -h > C > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html (Good infoa > written by Neil Rieck) > F > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6459/6459PRO.HTML (VAX to  > Alpha Migration documentation) > B > http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/index.html (Info on
 > DECmigrate)  > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantp > Compaq Canada Corp.  > Professional Servicesn > Voice: 613-592-4660M > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----F > From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com [mailto:norm.raphael@jamesbury.com]" > Sent: September 20, 2001 1:03 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComV/ > Subject: VAX-Alpha Migration: COBOL/BASIC/FMSC >  >  >  >  > 2 > We have an app that we need to migrate that uses > FMS, COBOL, and BASIC. > 4 > Does anyone have any tips on what compiler options1 > we should use and/or what to watch out for whent > recompiling the pieces?  >  >  >  > -Norms  F WE MIGRATED VAX DIBOL TO ALPHA SYNERGY DIBOL AND HAD ZERO PROBLEMS ...3 WAS EVEN EASIER THAN MOVING PDP DIBOL TO VAX DIBOL!p RMS IS RMS ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:35:59 GMT 8 From: Jonathan McCormack <McCormackJ@BelfastCity.Gov.UK>+ Subject: Whose Running The Oldest Software? $ Message-ID: <1103_1001327759@itgs17>   We had a full systems shutdown over the weekend to get some electrical work done on the Server floor.  While shutting down our systems we came across an old  ~ VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.  It is used basically to run and compile some legacy software that we supply.   It is running....=  
 VMS V5.5-1
 CMU IP V6.6-5=	 DCPS V1.0-
 COBOL V5.2 PATHWORKS V4.2-1  @ All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well.  1 So, is anybody running older software than me? :)o   Jonathan McCormack3 Educational Bodies Senior Technical Support Analyst  Belfast City Council ISB! http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/isb    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:48:22 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> / Subject: Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software? ) Message-ID: <3BAF2B96.3C51FBA6@gtech.com>r   Jonathan McCormack wrote:a > We had a full systems shutdown over the weekend to get some electrical work done on the Server floor.  While shutting down our systems we came across an old > VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.  It is used basically to run and compile some legacy software that we supply. >  > It is running....l >  > VMS V5.5-1 > CMU IP V6.6-5t > DCPS V1.0t > COBOL V5.2 > PATHWORKS V4.2-1 > B > All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well. > 3 > So, is anybody running older software than me? :)s  ? There are often machines stuck at the last minor version withinl a major version.   So there will be:    - many VMS 6.2 systems   - some VMS 5.5-2 systems   - a few VMS 4.7 systemsl   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:02:27 -0400a- From: Michael Austin <firstdbasource@att.net>y/ Subject: Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?n' Message-ID: <3BAF2EE2.7C121260@att.net>3  S I have a client running an app that was ported from pdp in 1989 on a 3400 w/VMS5.1.o& I am porting it to Alpha /OpenVMS 7.3.   Mike   Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Jonathan McCormack wrote:s > > We had a full systems shutdown over the weekend to get some electrical work done on the Server floor.  While shutting down our systems we came across an old > > VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.  It is used basically to run and compile some legacy software that we supply. > >= > > It is running....= > >= > > VMS V5.5-1 > > CMU IP V6.6-5=
 > > DCPS V1.03 > > COBOL V5.2 > > PATHWORKS V4.2-1 > > D > > All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well. > > 5 > > So, is anybody running older software than me? :)3 >DA > There are often machines stuck at the last minor version within_ > a major version. >? > So there will be:N >   - many VMS 6.2 systems >   - some VMS 5.5-2 systems >   - a few VMS 4.7 systems- >- > Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 09:20:12 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen):/ Subject: Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?23 Message-ID: <2+qAgXuvdenK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1103_1001327759@itgs17>, Jonathan McCormack <McCormackJ@BelfastCity.Gov.UK> writes:t > We had a full systems shutdown over the weekend to get some electrical work done on the Server floor.  While shutting down our systems we came across an old r > VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.  It is used basically to run and compile some legacy software that we supply. >  > It is running....u >  > VMS V5.5-1 > CMU IP V6.6-5s > DCPS V1.0n > COBOL V5.2 > PATHWORKS V4.2-1 > B > All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well. > 3 > So, is anybody running older software than me? :)     I run VMS V5.3-1 on one machine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:48:32 -0700n% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>s/ Subject: Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?,) Message-ID: <3BAF55D0.54D48E41@rdrop.com>p   Jonathan McCormack wrote:I > 7 > While shutting down our systems we came across an olda2 > VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.B > All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well.  H Ironic that the best advertising you can give a system is that it ran so- well it's managers forgot about it.  *sigh*.so   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Sep 2001 16:40:53 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)r/ Subject: Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software?h+ Message-ID: <9onnml$cn0$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>s  ) In article <3BAF55D0.54D48E41@rdrop.com>,h(  Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: |> Jonathan McCormack wrote: |> > r: |> > While shutting down our systems we came across an old5 |> > VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.lE |> > All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well.= |>  K |> Ironic that the best advertising you can give a system is that it ran so 0 |> well it's managers forgot about it.  *sigh*.s  D How true.  I don't remember which newsgroup it came up in, but thereE was mention a while back about someone coming accross a PDP-11 in the=D back corner of a computer room at a Denver Lockheed-Martin facility.D It was apparently running the HVAC for the facility and no one thereB could remember for how long that had been the case.  The operators never went near it.=  D My oldest system in regular use here is running Ultrix-11 and if youC count making binaries of Kermit as production, then it's still in ah production environment.  :-)  B My oldest VMS is MicroVMS-4.5, but it's not up all the time but it7 has been run off-and-on since I came here 15 years ago.k  :     [I have older machines, but I would not consider them <      "production".  Of course, this begs the question is any'      academic use really "production"?]e   bill   -- AJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:52:28 -0400a( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: World Trade Center-, Message-ID: <3BAEBC0C.9000901@tsoft-inc.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > David Froble wrote:e >  >>[snipped]o >> > F > Hey! David Froble! How are you doing, sir??!! Haven't seen ya 'round > these parts for a while now. >  >   I Actually, at times I haven't been around.  I have look-ed in at times to tE take the temperature of what's going on.  After the assassination of sH Alpha, I was throughly disgusted, said f**k it, and spent all free time H flying and any time with computers was strictly work.  Then the HP deal D was way too much for me.  Disgust heaped upon disgust.  At least my E prediction of Compaq being toast due to loss of credibility happened e3 rather quickly, but it appears not for that reason..  H The WTC think really shock me up, and all flying being suspended, spent G a bit more time with the computers.  Seeing Bill and Rob back at their mG periodic attempts to see how far apart they could appear was enough to r' get me to abandon prudence and join in.a   So observations on this thread:   C Bill's right about unintended consequences.  The death toll amount nH Afgans fleeing the cities and being stopped at the borders could easily H surpass that in NY.  That's appalling!  The US government's best course = would be to place helping save these lives above any revenge.e  F I cannot believe Rob truly believes that wholesale and indiscriminate @ retalitation is right and proper.  He's not that kind of person.  F So, these two opposing forces get together, and totally polarize what * could have been some meaningful discourse.  F Guess I'm just rambling because the situation has me so upset.  Guess  that goes for many of us.s   DEC being bought by Compaq.w+ Compaq thinking commitments are just noise.k Compaq killing Alpha.u HP buying Compaq.s WTC.G Some ultralight pilot (nobody I knew) just killed himself at the local i airport.  & I'm afraid to contemplate what's next.  F Please, no suggestions, better be careful of what's asked for, it may  happen.w   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:03:07 -0400m' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e Subject: Re: World Trade CenterM( Message-ID: <9omi7n$s6g$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : "Randall Burlew" <rkburlew@earthlink.net> wrote in message? news:Hsyr7.10296$W83.974360@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9olmag$8gq$1@pyrite.mv.net... > > >pL > > > There is precious little difference between Democrats and Republicans. > >e > > I don't agree. > D > OK. Tell me how perfect Bill Clinton's foreign policy was. Tell meE > what party got us involved in Vietnam. Tell me with a straight facec > how good the Democrats are.   H It's clear I can't tell you anything.  So I'll stop wasting time trying.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:23:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: World Trade Centert, Message-ID: <3BAEDF4A.82BD895A@videotron.ca>   Dave Weatherall wrote:F >              you're going through  a process that most of the Brit'sH > and some of the other Europeans in the forum have experienced over the > last 20/30 years or more.s  K But rarely have the actual acts been filmed/shown live from so many angles,tN and rarely have so many humans seen other humans fall to their death. And thisL disaster was in slow motion compared to the bombs that go boom in one secondS and then it is over. This event was over an hour long with progressive destruction.   L The footage was worthy of hollywood mega productions. So much so that when IM first saw the footage without really knowing what was happening, I thought itoM was hollywood simulations. It wasn't until I realised that it was in fact for F real that it dawned on me what had actually happened. Gotta give it toA Hollywood: their simulations of bombs/explosions are pretty good.X    M And it is not only those who perished, but also those who were unfortunate totK witness this first hand. Seeing folks on the street react to the horror was L just as depressing as watching the things fall and realise what was going on% inside (people being crushed/burned).3  M And while nobody is willing to talk about it, think of any survivors stuck inyJ the rubble way below who may have felt very lucky to survive the collapse,3 only to slowly suffocate or worse, starve to death.D  G Just before the pope came to Montreal, there was a bomb are the central_I railway station. It caused emergency actions to secure the pope along thenN route (welding manholes, removing rubbish bins etc). But a couple weeks later,L even the railway station had returned to normal (minus the storage lockers).  L But this disaster is of armageddon proportions. Not only the actual  footageK of the WTC crashes and collapse, but of the economic collapse caused by theVJ USA's reaction of declaring WAR on an unknown ennemy. Airlines now have toK struggle because the USA government has decided to brag about how long thisrM war would last and how they couldn't reveal publicly where they would attack.tP The uncertainty and long term "war alert" will just put everything else on hold.  J Insurance companies have failed and stopped insuring airlines because theyL cannot know where war will breakout and thus cannot evaluate the risk of warL for individual cities. In the rest of the world, governments have to step inI with little warning to save their airlines. The stock market which wasn't L doing well, has tanked significantly.  Interest rates are very low. And that is just the beginning.  M I am sorry to say that the terrorists have succeeded far more than they couldeN have hoped.  I would rather have the USA government focus on getting life backJ to normal and rebuild the world trace centre and adjoining buildings (withH covert operations to hunt down Bin laden) rather than the USA governmentJ promising war and revenge. And to make matters worse, racist behaviour hasH begun in the USA with murders of non-whites, as well as non-whites beingM prevented by airline pilots from travelling in their planes and racial slurrsr made against others.  K The problem is that Bush Jr and his cabinet cannot publicly admit that theytM have no idea how they can get Bin Laden (assuming they actually have proof itrL was him). The USA has tried multiple times in the past to get him and failedM each time. The only way they can succeed is to get others to fetch Bin Laden.tQ And the USA is using all its naval might to scare other nations into cooperating.p  K The problem is that doing so also scares the economy and gives the citizensc; false hopes that this will be solved easily with firepower.e    L It isn't a naval aircraft carrier with jet fighters that will get Bin Laden,J but someone like James Bond and in the end, they won't be able to announceN that the USA killed Bin Laden and friends because such an operation would haveK been very covert (and illegal as per current USA rules, so the "James Bond"o' would probably be from another nation).   G The USA is putting on a big show of force to threathen other nations to N cooperate or else. That is a step in the right direction, except that the showM of force is hurting the economy of the USA and other countries because of the0 threats of war.p  M While the media praised Bush Jr's speech last week, I had 2 problems with it.4N First, he purposefully omitted mentioning Canada in his speech, even though weK closed our airspace to please the USA, causing much harm to our economy andNK airlines, as well as hosted about 20,000 passengers stranded in Canada, but-L the UK and other countries who hadn't lifted a finger so far and got all the praise.   N But more importantly, he focused his speech on efforts to bring justice to theD terrorists instead of bringing the USA back to normalcy and economicS prosperity. As was said during his father's last campaign: IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID.     M If you really want to defeat the terrorists, you have to ignore them and just K rebuild ASAP and get back to normal life.  (Again with covert operations topL get to them, and celebrate only once you have proven that they have been put out of action).    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 09:54:28 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o Subject: Re: World Trade CenterXH Message-ID: <y4zo7lnhvv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:i  H > >  That is the problem. They are just that - criminals that need to beJ > > prosecuted. But there is not coutry that they represent. So you cannot > > have a war. N >    But we already did.  Therefor it set a precedent, and we can do it again.  K You're not alone in the world, you know. Call it what you please, but don'tlB expect you partners in combat to accept it as a "war" in the sense  international law uses the word.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:22:23 +0100T% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t Subject: Re: World Trade Centerm8 Message-ID: <9hutqt8dn75uq0djvjg5i23pq9v9va7804@4ax.com>  , On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:23:22 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:f    M >It isn't a naval aircraft carrier with jet fighters that will get Bin Laden,MK >but someone like James Bond and in the end, they won't be able to announcemO >that the USA killed Bin Laden and friends because such an operation would haveML >been very covert (and illegal as per current USA rules, so the "James Bond"( >would probably be from another nation).  C UK press has reported that British SAS troops (special forces) havea1 engaged Taliban units within Afghanistan already.s  N >While the media praised Bush Jr's speech last week, I had 2 problems with it.O >First, he purposefully omitted mentioning Canada in his speech, even though weSL >closed our airspace to please the USA, causing much harm to our economy andL >airlines, as well as hosted about 20,000 passengers stranded in Canada, butM >the UK and other countries who hadn't lifted a finger so far and got all theO  C See above. Also note that the UK has over 25,000 ground troops plus : naval and RAF task forces in the region for an 'exercise'.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:37:02 +0100S& From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> Subject: Re: World Trade Center - Message-ID: <3BAF1ADE.B6FD5B24@aerosys.co.uk>.   Randall Burlew wrote:  > 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9olmag$8gq$1@pyrite.mv.net... > > >rL > > > There is precious little difference between Democrats and Republicans. > >: > > I don't agree. > D > OK. Tell me how perfect Bill Clinton's foreign policy was. Tell meE > what party got us involved in Vietnam. Tell me with a straight face- > how good the Democrats are.0 >   P Well, he nearly pulled off a peace settlement in the Middle East and contributedJ greatly to the peace process in Northern Ireland, something many here (incG myself) in the UK are very gratefull for. Many here are also not reallyoM concerned with the entrails of his private life, would think it none of theireK business anyway, are bemused by the moral hypocrisy and think that overall,w: think he had a positive effect on the state of the world.   P In the end, it's not the party that does the work, it's the individuals within aN party that get the job done. Party names, like religions and other ism's don't3 matter and exist only to provides collective focus.w  & And no, BC isn't perfect, are you ?...   Chrish   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 07:56:51 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: World Trade Centero3 Message-ID: <t0g9s1cGwAm$@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <y4zo7lnhvv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:C > I >> >  That is the problem. They are just that - criminals that need to be1K >> > prosecuted. But there is not coutry that they represent. So you cannotr >> > have a war.  O >>    But we already did.  Therefor it set a precedent, and we can do it again.  > M > You're not alone in the world, you know. Call it what you please, but don'teD > expect you partners in combat to accept it as a "war" in the sense" > international law uses the word. >   C    I don't care what they call it, as long as they help.  Meanwhile.     we'll call it what we please.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Sep 2001 13:27:29 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: World Trade Center + Message-ID: <9oncc1$5oq$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>?  H In article <y4zo7lnhvv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,J  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: |>N |> You're not alone in the world, you know. Call it what you please, but don'tE |> expect you partners in combat to accept it as a "war" in the sensee# |> international law uses the word.j  C So, what your saying then is that according to international law it@D isn't a war unless it is between two distinct and legally (accordingC to international law) established countries??  That of course meansfB there never was an American War of Independance from England.  NorC has there ever been a civil war anywhere in the world.  It's reallys? wonderful what you can do when you stop using words as everyonetC understands them and start applying your own meanings.  Anything isp truly possible.   < War is war and calling a tea party isn't going to change it.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:14:55 -0500e+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu>3 Subject: Re: World Trade CenteroH Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0109240847020.13828-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>  & On 24 Sep 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:  J > In article <y4zo7lnhvv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,L >  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > |>P > |> You're not alone in the world, you know. Call it what you please, but don'tG > |> expect you partners in combat to accept it as a "war" in the senseB% > |> international law uses the word.n > E > So, what your saying then is that according to international law it F > isn't a war unless it is between two distinct and legally (accordingE > to international law) established countries??  That of course means A > there never was an American War of Independance from England.  a  D You know, it's interesting that you bring this up, Bill.  There is aH strategic and tactical similarity between terrorism (in general) and theE strategy and tactics of the New England militias in the RevolutionarytC war.  I think it was the first fighting against the British general H Burgoyne where the colonial militias were forced to fight a guerilla warH to go up against the far superior numbers and discipline of the British.  B In fact, it was considered an act of terrorism to fire directly atH officers -- something the militias did regularly with intent to kill andI confuse the British and their chain of command.  In fact, IIRC (not beingnJ a Rev. War scholar), these sorts of tactics helped to turn it into the war8 of attrition that the British were not willing to fight.  I Certainly not the whole story, but I do hope that the powers that be haveaH learned from this and other incidents in the past.  ("He who forgets theJ pasta is doomed to reheat it.") If insufficient analysis is devoted to theI motivation (i.e., the *perception* of U.S. Foreign Policy in points East)lE of said attackers, some histories may choose to use a word other than $ terrorism to describe recent events.  J Oh, and by the way, would someone point out to the media that a Free pressI is intended to prevent the government from oppressing our *own* citizens,-G but not necessarily anyone else?!  Is not the preservation of life moreeC important to the cause of Freedom than the sale of newspapers or TVBF ads?  If it is really felt that ships must be deployed in this sort ofG nonsense, it is farcical to defend the loose lips that might sink them.g  / Ah well, thank goodness for the lake cottage.      --  < I liked HP before computers, and at one time I liked Compaq,7 but I liked DEC better than HP and Compaq put together.t   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2001 00:48:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: World Trade Centere- Message-ID: <87hetsr0vy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   > David J. Dachtera wrote:  o > > David Froble wrote:o  
 > >>[snipped]   D > Bill's right about unintended consequences.  The death toll amountB > Afgans fleeing the cities and being stopped at the borders couldD > easily surpass that in NY.  That's appalling!  The US government'sB > best course would be to place helping save these lives above any
 > revenge.   To give a comparison...a  F Every month, the sanctions on Iraq kill about 6000s women and children4 in Iraq, mostly in the Kurdish and southern sectors.   -- g< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 06:14:25 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] V7.2 VAX satellite doesn't find V7.3 Alpha bootserver= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0109240514.4eb42099@posting.google.com>   A Can any Alpha systems which are not on CI see the VAX system diskp served to them?u  F What are the device names of the VAX and Alpha system disks?  Is thereE any node in this cluster running 7.1-2 or earlier?  What is the valuesF of ALLOCLASS on the bootserver node(s), and does it match the value onD the HSJ(s) serving the VAX disk?  If there's a 7.1-2 or earlier nodeD in the cluster, you may have to set bit 8 in MSCP_SERVE_ALL to serve& disks of different allocation classes.C -------------------------------------------------------------------wC Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:dC Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/Ot   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 15:11:16 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: [VMScluster] Cross Architecture Boot with Cluster_Config ?o* Message-ID: <3baf30f4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  ; Configuring and running a VMScluster is not new technology. 7 Mixed Architecture Cluster is also also not really new.c  F But Cross Architecture Boot (booting VAX from Alpha or Alpha from VAX)B was unsupported since day one (for VAX satellites you needed a VAXD bootserver and for Alpha satellites you needed an Alpha Bootserver -> eg. an OpenVMS upgrade still needs directly attached disks andC CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM can only manipulate the current system disk) andaE only did work if you do all modifications the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM doestG by hand. Eg. the directory structure and especially the MOP database...a   eg. a VAX client looks like:3     Tertiary Loader { SYS$SYSTEM:TERTIARY_VMB.EXE }v;     System Image { "@NET$NISCS_LAA(DISK$VAXVMS:<SYS11.>)" }h    while an Alpha client looks likeC     System Image { "@NET$NISCS_LAA(DISK$AXPVMS:<SYS43.>,APB.EXE)" }i    H Are there any plans for supporting Cross-Archtitecture (fully with CrossF Configuration) VMSclusters ? Or does it already work and I only missedG it because the last time I used the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM directly was thea5 time when the Alpha got introduced in the early 90. ?t  : If not, won't OpenVMS IPF require to change/support this ?   TIAp   -- o< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2001 11:47:43 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)oG Subject: Re: [VMScluster] Cross Architecture Boot with Cluster_Config ?u3 Message-ID: <fV0zDFjuWFOV@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <3baf30f4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:e= > Configuring and running a VMScluster is not new technology.t9 > Mixed Architecture Cluster is also also not really new.  > H > But Cross Architecture Boot (booting VAX from Alpha or Alpha from VAX)D > was unsupported since day one (for VAX satellites you needed a VAXF > bootserver and for Alpha satellites you needed an Alpha Bootserver -  >    Your out of date, quite a bit.  Cross architecture boot was=    unsupported ON day one, but was made available soon after.   G    You need a VAX system disk to boot a VAX and an Alpha system disk tovF    boot an Alpha, but they can be served by any server in the cluster.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.532 ************************