1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 27 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 538       Contents:9 ANN: ODS2 available -- reads ODS-2 disks on Windows, UNIX ) Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS ) Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS ) Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS ) Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS ) Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS ) Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS , Best Way to do Interprocessing Communication0 Re: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communication0 Re: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communication0 Re: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communication  Re: Cannot detect display device Re: CETS2001 presentations Re: CETS2001 presentations customer letter regarding RTR  DECmigrate on 2-node VMScluster # Re: DECmigrate on 2-node VMScluster # Re: DECmigrate on 2-node VMScluster ) DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? - RE: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?  Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: firewall & NAT desired Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's 0 Re: Good bye VAX-6400's; 8550 still going strong Re: Help with UNZIP.EXE ) Re: How to install Adobe Acrobat Viewer ? ) Re: How to install Adobe Acrobat Viewer ? , RE: Is it possible to set system-wide flags?! Re: Looking for help with a DTC01 & Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy Memory Usage Re: Memory Usage Re: Memory Usage Re: Need help with RMS Re: Need help with RMS Re: Need help with RMS Re: Need help with RMS Re: Need help with RMS Re: Really Unhackable...???? Re: Really Unhackable...????5 Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que? 9 Re: Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que? 9 Re: Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que? A Re: SNMP client software for OpenVMS (Alpha or VAX, Motif or CLI) ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ? ! Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?  RE: VAX disaster tolerance Re: VAX disaster tolerance5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel? 5 Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?  VT emulation on Linux + Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1? / Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?  Re: Watching the cookie crumble ! Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problems ! Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problems ! Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problems ! Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problems & Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software? Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center re: World Trade Center Re: World Trade Center' ZIP for VMS for a file 5 million blocks + RE: ZIP for VMS for a file 5 million blocks < Re: {HP,Compaq} user groups (was Re: CETS2001 presentations)< Re: {HP,Compaq} user groups (was Re: CETS2001 presentations)< Re: {HP,Compaq} user groups (was Re: CETS2001 presentations)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:09:18 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) B Subject: ANN: ODS2 available -- reads ODS-2 disks on Windows, UNIX1 Message-ID: <3bb35775.172825349@news.process.com>   # ODS2 is now available for download.   8 ODS2 is a program that will read VMS ODS-2 disks on VMS,4 Windows, and various UNIX systems.  ODS-2 provides a9 simple DCL-like interface to let you look at the contents : of an ODS-2 disk, as well as copy the files from the ODS-2: disk to the local system's disk.  This is an ideal program8 for those who have VMS CDs that they'd like to access on Windows and UNIX systems.   : ODS2 was written by Paul Nankervis.  This version includes; a number of changes by me, coordinated with and approved by > Paul.  An earlier version of ODS2 appeared on the VMS Freeware9 CD V4.  This release is ODS2 V1.3.  It has been tested on 7 VMS (both VAX and Alpha), Windows 2000, Tru64 UNIX, and  Solaris.  : You can download ODS V1.3 using any of the following URLs:   http://www.process.com/openvms/   4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip9 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip 0 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip5 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip   2 And on the other mirrors within the next 24 hours.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:07:15 +0200 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>2 Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS4 Message-ID: <9oufml$eoju2$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   I wrote:K >An early adopters kit of my port of ht://Dig 3.1.5 to OpenVMS is available F >at ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/vms/htdig-3_1_5-vms.zip (5.7 MB, includes source >and documentation).  L I'm sorry. That URL won't work from a browser, only works for anonymous FTP.K From a browser, use ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/000000/vms/htdig-3_1_5-vms.zip  .    Again: sorry for that.   cu,    Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:06:23 +0200 I From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= <jfp@altavista.net> 2 Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS- Message-ID: <3BB3244F.79A6A17B@altavista.net>    Thanks for your reply,   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > L > =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= (jfp@altavista.net) wrote:I > > I have indexed the same pages (7000 files, 300000 blocks) using htdig  > > and swish: > > 9 > > - swish: less than 4 minutes, index size 73000 blocks 3 > > - htdig: near 4 hours, index size 380000 blocks  > A > Can't comment on that, as I haven't tried swish in a long time.  >   # There is no comment, just a fact...     P > > one of the major difference is that swish can index directly file, and htdig$ > > retrieve file using http access. > M > Which bears the possibility to index a site not residing on the local host. B > And all the documents are indexed exactly as the user sees them. > M > > I have not found how to access file directly with htdig, may be it is not  > > possible ? > K > Please look up the "local_urls" configuration file keyword. I haven't yet E > touched the "local_user_urls" portion, so that probably won't work.  >   # Ok i will try this and post results   ; > > Using htsearch.exe interactively, i have two questions:  > > Enter value for words: > > Enter value for format:  > > & > > which generate a correct HTML file > > J > > but if i try it as a CGI (activation from the search.html, WASD 7.2) i > > have the following error:  > > E > > ERROR 502  -  External agent did not respond (or not acceptably). 2 > > Script did not provide an acceptable response. > K > I've seen this error if htsearch doesn't have access to any of the common > > or database files. Make sure these are owned by HTTP$SERVER. > G > HTTP status codes are a really *bad* indicator as to what went wrong. & > Error logs are much better for that. >   3 Maybe but in this case it is *exactly* the error...     L > > tracing the dialog between WASD and htsearch show the same string (EnterJ > > value for words:) send back to WASD which lead to the describe problem > E > The interactive portion only is activated if htsearch doesn't see a J > REQUEST_METHOD. I suggest to deactivate the "WWW_" CGI variables' prefixB > on the directory htsearch is in. I'll put that on the ToDo list. >   ' Thanks, work now, that was the problem.        Jean-Francois Pieronne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:19:57 +0200 I From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= <jfp@altavista.net> 2 Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS- Message-ID: <3BB3277D.3B3EC6E0@altavista.net>    Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 5 > Martin Vorlaender (martin@radiogaga.harz.de) wrote: N > > =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= (jfp@altavista.net) wrote:H > > > one of the major difference is that swish can index directly file,0 > > > and htdig retrieve file using http access. > > O > > Which bears the possibility to index a site not residing on the local host. D > > And all the documents are indexed exactly as the user sees them. > M > A related thought: Using ht://Dig with WASD HTTPd's Conan the librarian and J > HyperShelf, you can index the names in your libraries (not too useful, ID > guess), and all of your online documentation. Try that with SWISH. >   P Well, i am sorry if i have hit a nerve, i just try to find if i can reduce indexP time using HTDIG, if you are happy with many hours of processing, it's a problemN for me. And yes using SWISH-E you can index using HTTP access but currently is1 not supported on VMS (can be easily done)...  :-) P SWISH-E and HTDIG are two indexing packages which have both pros and cons, whereP is the problem to have several indexing package, after all there is VMSINDEX for a long time ? $ Please no proselytism and no flames.   Regards.   Jean-Francois Pieronne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:32:51 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMSL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2709011132510001@user-2ive6os.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3bb2187a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,  martin@radiogaga.harz.de wrote:   5 > Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote: A > > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> wrote: I > > > P.S.: Is there a way to set the LRL attribute *after* writing (i.e. M > > >       just before closing) the file? A file gets created by one program I > > >       (Stream_LF, LRL 32767), and then SOR$ted by another program - J > > >       which devours time and disk space. As a workaround, I insertedK > > >       a call to CONVERT which renders the file as (LRL less than 100) ) > > >       which helps the SOR$t (much).  > > F > > This begs the question:  why not create the file with the sensible" > > attributes in the first place? > G > Because I cannot know beforehand how long the records written will be D > (and BTW, I haven't yet found - in the pile of classes - the place > the file gets opened ;-)  E I think the bogus LRL is not the root problem.  It seems to be just a E symptom of C's tenuous understanding of RMS.  There are probably many C solutions, the first one that suceeded for me was getting away from 
 Stream_LF.  I > > In C, you can fopen with "rfm=var", "rat=cr".  I recently noticed the L > > miserable sort performance on C-created stream files, and this change to > > fopen cured it.  > 7 > I'll try that - as soon as I find the fopen, that is.    Happy hunting...   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:07:39 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)2 Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS; Message-ID: <3bb34ecb.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   3 Martin Vorlaender (martin@radiogaga.harz.de) wrote: . > Pat Rankin (rankin@eql14.caltech.edu) wrote:D > > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes.... > > >       A file gets created by one programI > > >       (Stream_LF, LRL 32767), and then SOR$ted by another program - J > > >       which devours time and disk space. As a workaround, I insertedK > > >       a call to CONVERT which renders the file as (LRL less than 100) ) > > >       which helps the SOR$t (much).  > > < > >      I don't know how to change the attributes when C or; > > C++ still has the file open, but if you get the routine > > > LYVMS_FixedLengthRecords() out of the lynx sources, you'll< > > find something which does the type of operation you want! > > after closing the file. [...]  > F > Which, of course, is as good. Thanks for the hint. I'll have a look.  H I have received a C routine from Ed James that comes out of Joe Meadow'sF FILE utility (thanks again, Ed). Probably the same code base (everyone' borrows from everyone else, right? :-).   D However, the easiest option to check was Robert Deininger's extendedE fopen() flags. As this works very well (after following the execution E paths to the fopen()s to modify, that is), I think I'll stay with it.   : But there's another place I need the setlrl() routine for.  & > > Now that I think about it, the RMS< > > routine SYS$MODIFY() might be able to handle this simple
 > > task too.  > ; > Errr, beg your pardon? There's no such routine in my copy ! > of the RMS Services Reference?!   ; Ahh, I've got it now: It's the IO$_MODIFY function of $QIO.  Seen it in the setlrl() code.    cu,    Martin --  G  Your mouse has moved.     | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4  Windows must be restarted | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deH  for the change to take    |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/;  effect. Reboot now? [OK]  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:56:29 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)2 Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.5 for OpenVMS; Message-ID: <3bb35a3d.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>    [This is a reply to two posts]  1 Jean Francois PIERONNE (jfp@altavista.net) wrote:  > Martin Vorlaender wrote:5 > > Jean Francois PIERONNE (jfp@altavista.net) wrote: K > > > I have indexed the same pages (7000 files, 300000 blocks) using htdig  > > > and swish: > > > ; > > > - swish: less than 4 minutes, index size 73000 blocks 5 > > > - htdig: near 4 hours, index size 380000 blocks  ... J > > > > one of the major difference is that swish can index directly file,2 > > > > and htdig retrieve file using http access. > > > K > > > Which bears the possibility to index a site not residing on the local L > > > host. And all the documents are indexed exactly as the user sees them. > > K > > A related thought: Using ht://Dig with WASD HTTPd's Conan the librarian N > > and HyperShelf, you can index the names in your libraries (not too useful,H > > I guess), and all of your online documentation. Try that with SWISH. > E > Well, i am sorry if i have hit a nerve, i just try to find if i can D > reduce index time using HTDIG, if you are happy with many hours ofH > processing, it's a problem for me. And yes using SWISH-E you can indexH > using HTTP access but currently is not supported on VMS (can be easily > done)...  :-)   D I am sorry if my reply sounded harsher than it was meant. But I feel( you're comparing apples to oranges here:  H on one side SWISH, a well established, no doubt well optimized, "simple"4 (isn't that what the first "S" stands for?) package,  A on the other side ht://Dig, freshly ported, work in progress, not A optimized at all, somewhat sophisticated (see the feature list at + http://www.htdig.org/require.html) package.l  E Optimization is on my toDo list, but it's near the end, after all theo# functionality has been implemented..  F > SWISH-E and HTDIG are two indexing packages which have both pros andH > cons, where is the problem to have several indexing package, after all& > there is VMSINDEX for a long time ?  > & > Please no proselytism and no flames.   (I had to look that up...;-)F I did not intend to flame. I apologize if you felt like that about it.D Nor did I intend to proselyte anyone - my port is too far from beingA complete, production-strength software. But I must say, I like itt" (like I liked SWISH at some time).  G > > > ERROR 502  -  External agent did not respond (or not acceptably).e4 > > > Script did not provide an acceptable response. > > M > > I've seen this error if htsearch doesn't have access to any of the commonT@ > > or database files. Make sure these are owned by HTTP$SERVER. > > I > > HTTP status codes are a really *bad* indicator as to what went wrong.s( > > Error logs are much better for that. > 5 > Maybe but in this case it is *exactly* the error...w  D I know, but that normally isn't enough to debug what goes wrong withI the "gateway" / CGI program. An error log, or capturing the communicationnD between CGI program and web server (like you did) is many times more$ helpful to diagnose what went wrong.   cu,a   Martin -- dF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deeF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 08:24:24 -05002 From: cochrane@encompasserve.org (Arthur Cochrane)5 Subject: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communication 3 Message-ID: <Z9PtggemdqWp@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  A     I am a system manager and not really a programmer. One of our K     application people sent me the message below and I do not know the best (     answer. Global Section, mailbox, ???  5     All help or pointers will be greatly appreciated.e  )     Question from application programmer:   K     We are trying to do our design for AEI for the Oracle Conversion and welB     were just getting some ideas in our head. Is there a way to doI     interprocessing communication between alpha processes like we do witheJ     DMQ with some other mechanism like MQ? We definitely don't want to use     the DMQ functionality.       Thank you,       Arthur CochraneC"     arthur-cochrane@nospam.csx.com     leave out nospam.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:32:22 GMTp? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)x9 Subject: Re: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communicatione0 Message-ID: <3bb32a1a.20549338@news.demon.co.uk>  A On 27 Sep 2001 08:24:24 -0500, cochrane@encompasserve.org (Arthurx Cochrane) wrote:  B >    I am a system manager and not really a programmer. One of ourL >    application people sent me the message below and I do not know the best) >    answer. Global Section, mailbox, ???g >b6 >    All help or pointers will be greatly appreciated. >h* >    Question from application programmer: >gL >    We are trying to do our design for AEI for the Oracle Conversion and weC >    were just getting some ideas in our head. Is there a way to do J >    interprocessing communication between alpha processes like we do withK >    DMQ with some other mechanism like MQ? We definitely don't want to use  >    the DMQ functionality.l >  >    Thank you,c >r >    Arthur Cochrane# >    arthur-cochrane@nospam.csx.comr >    leave out nospam.  D Do you want or need the 'queuing' capability in DMQ, or are all yourD communications essentially RPCs or transceives?  (In other words, doD all of your communications require that the receiver is currenlty up and active?)   Jim.   Jim Johnson  Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:37:03 -0400)# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>:9 Subject: Re: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communication-+ Message-ID: <3BB32B7F.E447B095@hsc.vcu.edu>e  B you want to know if they are talking processes on the same cpu, orG different... on a single-cpu machine, i'd use global sections. (fortran  common blocks?)   H you could also use mailboxes, requires reads/writes into memory areas...   JimD   Arthur Cochrane wrote: > C >     I am a system manager and not really a programmer. One of ourrM >     application people sent me the message below and I do not know the best-* >     answer. Global Section, mailbox, ??? > 7 >     All help or pointers will be greatly appreciated.r > + >     Question from application programmer:o > M >     We are trying to do our design for AEI for the Oracle Conversion and we D >     were just getting some ideas in our head. Is there a way to doK >     interprocessing communication between alpha processes like we do withVL >     DMQ with some other mechanism like MQ? We definitely don't want to use >     the DMQ functionality. >  >     Thank you, >  >     Arthur Cochrane $ >     arthur-cochrane@nospam.csx.com >     leave out nospam.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:44:55 -0000c- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)t9 Subject: Re: Best Way to do Interprocessing Communicationm7 Message-ID: <912984447warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>m  5 cochrane@encompasserve.org (Arthur Cochrane) wrote inr) <Z9PtggemdqWp@eisner.encompasserve.org>: e  B >    I am a system manager and not really a programmer. One of ourG >    application people sent me the message below and I do not know the . >    best answer. Global Section, mailbox, ??? >s6 >    All help or pointers will be greatly appreciated. >V* >    Question from application programmer: >fI >    We are trying to do our design for AEI for the Oracle Conversion andoF >    we were just getting some ideas in our head. Is there a way to doE >    interprocessing communication between alpha processes like we do I >    with DMQ with some other mechanism like MQ? We definitely don't wantr" >    to use the DMQ functionality. >m >    Thank you,. >  >    Arthur Cochrane# >    arthur-cochrane@nospam.csx.comS >    leave out nospam.    K If you're using DMQ now, one question to ask is what features?  Broadcasts kL in DMQ (or any other messaging middleware) are not trivially simulated with B mailboxes or global sections etc.  Resource management is another J significant feature of DMQ that would be significant work to emulate in a H roll-your-own messaging scheme.  Guaranteed delivery and failover would I likely be more complex yet.  If you're using all these features, realize gH they took man-years of development effort, something you're unlikely to  want to re-invent.  I So if you're dumping DMQ, and using a significant portion of its feature-rL set, you may wish to consider replacing it with an equivalent product, such  as MQ Series, Tibco, ...     ws   -- s   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)a The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:37:36 -0400f5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g) Subject: Re: Cannot detect display device 1 Message-ID: <oBIs7.725$YP.22059@news.cpqcorp.net>e  C Give us a little detail.  What version of VMS?  What is the device?   @ Kenneth wrote in message <9otq4j$qgo1@imsp212.netvigator.com>...I >I have downgrade my machine by restore the previous system image. When Ip try"L >to start the DEC Window, it will return cannot detect graphical device. How! >can I config the graphic device?  >' >o   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 07:52:33 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: CETS2001 presentationsu3 Message-ID: <6Sb3hrmEOYEw@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  \ In article <3BB23226.BF689132@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  I . And the "customers it cares about" are in small enough numbers now thatoO > Compaq doesn't need a conference to meet them, it just goes to their premises  > to visit them. >   H    Gee, they teleconned with us.  Were they supposed to fly all over the    word?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:43:13 GMTa& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com># Subject: Re: CETS2001 presentations 6 Message-ID: <lOHs7.935$jW2.64184@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  K There is no longer a session note CD-ROM being produced.  Unlike the CD-ROMEI the sessions are now available a few days after the Symposium rather thano weeks after the Symposium...  @ "Vance R. Haemmerle" <vance@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message& news:9ouej1$3cn@gap.cco.caltech.edu.... > In article <3BB2476B.CA9462F3@ui.urban.org>,+ > Jim Becker  <jbecker@ui.urban.org> wrote:  > >sI > >The idea of making CETS materials available to people who weren't able-D > >to attend has some definite attractions, but keep these points in > >mind:: > >1) There is a non-zero cost associated with doing this.G > >2) While there's a value proposition to those who want access to the7F > >materials, any proposal should also spell out the value proposition& > >for those who would bear the costs.H > >3) There's also the issue of "appropriate use" -- using the materialsC > >only in ways consistent with agreements and commitments (betweeni5 > >speaker & CETS, between Compaq & Encompass, etc.).a >sH >   At the DECUS convention in San Diego in '99, I only had a free Trade showI > pass but didn't register or attend the sessions and I was able to ordert the F > Session Notes CDrom for $85 at the booth.  All I needed was my DecusI > membership number.  What's different about CETS? Can't anyone order theo > Session Notes CDrom? >l > -- > Vance Haemmerlea > vance@alumni.caltech.edu >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:12:52 -0400e2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>& Subject: customer letter regarding RTR1 Message-ID: <ZsGs7.715$YP.21910@news.cpqcorp.net>P   Dear Newsgroup,l  H I just recieved this and wanted to post it right away.  Not everyone may have seen this yet.a  
 Warm Regards,t   Suea  L ____________________________________________________________________________
 _____________r       September 27, 2001       Dear Valued Customer,   F Reliable Transaction Router (RTR) Version 4.1 is available now! RTR is software fault tolerant:  G transactional messaging middleware used to implement large, distributedR applications using  G client/server technology. This maintenance release of RTR V4.1 has been. designed to provide>  - the highest level of quality and reliability.g  L For over a decade, major financial exchanges and banks across the globe have
 relied on RTRo  J as the best and simplest method of providing 24 x 7 availability for their transaction-intensivea  
 applications.R  F As you may recall earlier in 2000, RTR V4.0 provided customers with an object-oriented interface,  L web based system management and transaction shadow performance enhancements. In addition,  L RTR for OpenVMS is no longer licensed as a separate product, but licensed as part of the OpenVMS   H operating system. RTR software support services will continue to be sold separately and are not beh  " part of operating system services.   New Partners!!   Twobyfour Software  K Our customers requested a way to manage RTR within their current Enterpriseo Management System   K (EMS), so we developed the RTR probe. The first release integrates with BMCi Patrol. Integration with  @ other EMSs will be made available on a case-by-case basis. Visit  www.twobyfour.com for additional   information.   Foliage Software Systems  H Foliage Software Systems, a leading custom software development services provider for  < high availability solutions. Foliage specializes in building0 mission-critical systems for financial services,  I retail, telecommunications and other clients. Foliage builds systems thato rapidly detect problems ands  L move - instantly and gracefully - to a redundant system. This is done with a programming component-  J model named FRTR (Foliage Reliable Transaction Router), that uses Compaq's RTR. FRTR now enables   I the high availability. Visit: www.foliage.com for additional information.1   Product Availability  F RTR is now available for customers on the following platforms: OpenVMS (AlphaT and VAXT), Tru64 UNIX,  J Sun Solaris, Windows 2000, Windows NT, Windows 98 and Windows ME. RTR V4.1 will ship on the Softwarer  < Product Libraries in the October - December 2001 time frame.  ? Please visit the RTR web site at anytime to download the latestd* documentation and provide us your valuable  . feedback http://www.compaq.com/rtr. Thank you!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:49:24 +0100 + From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com>b( Subject: DECmigrate on 2-node VMScluster& Message-ID: <3bb339f0$1@pull.gecm.com>  C I am trying to use the now freely available DECmigrate product on amG 2-node VMScluster.  The download site provides a license PAK which onlyiE installs sufficient units for one node to load the license at any onel@ time.  Does anyone have any ideas how I might be able to installG sufficient units to allow both machines to load the product at the samea time?    TIAvD ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Groupl Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:33:50 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s, Subject: Re: DECmigrate on 2-node VMScluster8 Message-ID: <hfh6rtkr5kuop8pg0vgbjmpoghse03dctl@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:49:24 +0100, "Tim Jackson"  <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote:  D >I am trying to use the now freely available DECmigrate product on aH >2-node VMScluster.  The download site provides a license PAK which onlyF >installs sufficient units for one node to load the license at any oneA >time.  Does anyone have any ideas how I might be able to install@H >sufficient units to allow both machines to load the product at the same >time?  A You are aware that DECMIGRATE license is only required to run the 9 initial VEST and is not required to run the vested image?1   >TIAE >------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------:E >Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.comf >Air Systems Group >Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd. >w >o   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:24:59 -0700 2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam>, Subject: Re: DECmigrate on 2-node VMScluster3 Message-ID: <9ovnf3$44h$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>   : I don't have an answer to your specific question, but note6 that DECmigrate (VEST) is designed only to work on VAX. images that were linked on VMS 5.5 or earlier.  4 Tim Jackson <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message  news:3bb339f0$1@pull.gecm.com...E > I am trying to use the now freely available DECmigrate product on aiI > 2-node VMScluster.  The download site provides a license PAK which onlytG > installs sufficient units for one node to load the license at any one B > time.  Does anyone have any ideas how I might be able to installI > sufficient units to allow both machines to load the product at the samei > time?n >i > TIA F > ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------F > Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com > Air Systems Group  > Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.m >A >y >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:01:31 -0400t- From: "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> 2 Subject: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?/ Message-ID: <tr61o2soc08f8d@corp.supernews.com>s   Hello All..e  H Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use. them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days).  L I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these types of problems also.i  J The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - and in their cases.n   Thanks in advance.   Todd Nelsone% Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PA , toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:35:38 +0200m2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?G Message-ID: <3bb30e48$0$43432$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   > "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag) news:tr61o2soc08f8d@corp.supernews.com... 
 > Hello All..p >eJ > Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use0 > them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days). >eH > I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these typesb > of problems also.  >'L > The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - and > in their cases.M >  > Thanks in advance. >T
 > Todd Nelson ' > Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PA*. > toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) com >a >m  K In your case I would have my tape-drive checked. Maybe a head-problem (somew erosion destroying he tapes).sH We have been using out tapes 50 times and up, an have had no problems at all.   regardst   Ren Schelbaum   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:21:12 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?8 Message-ID: <ri26rtkomgto10cegv7h72vk2eh63v988e@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:01:31 -0400, "Todd Nelson"   <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote:   >Hello All.. > I >Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use-/ >them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days).5 > M >I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these typese >of problems also.  D Something is seriously wrong. We've had virtually no failures on DLT> IV tapes cycled over 20 times so far,  I've seen DLT III tapes# reliably cycle for around 100 uses.e  F How exactly do they fail and are they all used in a common drive? What. make of DLT? I'd tend to suspect a drive fault  K >The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - and  >in their cases. >A >Thanks in advance.v >i >Todd Nelson& >Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PA- >toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) como >n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:39:27 +0200e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>.6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?) Message-ID: <3BB30FEF.3397DF28@gtech.com>m   Todd Nelson wrote:J > Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use0 > them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days). > N > I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these types > of problems also.  > L > The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - and > in their cases.    That is not natural.   And a real nasty problem.r  ) I would get the tape drives checked ASAP.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:53:20 -0400 - From: "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com>a6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?/ Message-ID: <tr689m6okjmu1a@corp.supernews.com>   G We are using MAXELL branded tapes in DS-TZ89N-VW DLT drives attached to. OpenVMS Alpha 4000s.+ We have two systems, and one drive on each.a  K Both Drives have been replaced at least twice in the past 3 years. One justd
 yesterday.  L All Compaq seems to tell me about the issue is that I should be using COMPAQA branded DLT Tapes... is this just a $$ scam or is this for real??t   Thanks all.y  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:ri26rtkomgto10cegv7h72vk2eh63v988e@4ax.com...3 > On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:01:31 -0400, "Todd Nelson"o" > <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote: >t > >Hello All.. > > K > >Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We user1 > >them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days).  > > I > >I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have thesej types: > >of problems also. >eF > Something is seriously wrong. We've had virtually no failures on DLT@ > IV tapes cycled over 20 times so far,  I've seen DLT III tapes% > reliably cycle for around 100 uses.' >sH > How exactly do they fail and are they all used in a common drive? What0 > make of DLT? I'd tend to suspect a drive fault >iI > >The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times -y ando > >in their cases. > >  > >Thanks in advance.n > >t > >Todd Nelson( > >Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PA/ > >toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) comp > >o >e > -- > Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 07:11:55 -0700 From: mpatt@bigfoot.com (Mal)u6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?= Message-ID: <5d328ddf.0109270611.31353e8f@posting.google.com>o   Todd,nB     They should last MUCH longer than that. In my last life we hadA tapes randomly selected for reuse from a scratch pool, it was notwB uncommon for tapes to have been used 10,20,30 times. It was a very, unusual occurence to have to throw any away.  B What sort of errors are you getting ? perhaps it's something else,8 here are a few things that I've come accross in my time:  ) 1. a bad batch of tapes - sent them back.:D 2. trying to use tapes that have got an RDB back on them will give aD parity (I think) error making it look like the tape's bad initialise the tape before reusing it.Z" 3. Dirty drives - clean the drive.D 4. Keeping the tapes near an electromagnetic source (though this wasD years ago on open reel tapes and I think the tape technology's moved/ on since then) - keep the tapes somewhere else.o        d "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<tr61o2soc08f8d@corp.supernews.com>...
 > Hello All..W > J > Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use0 > them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days). > N > I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these types > of problems also.m > L > The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - and > in their cases.a >  > Thanks in advance. > 
 > Todd Nelsonu' > Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PAt. > toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:27:36 +0200m0 From: "Jean-Luc RAYON" <jl.rayon@lacouronne.com>6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?, Message-ID: <9overj$iuh$1@reader1.fr.uu.net>  < We have tape used every week and we change them once a year.   JL RAYON  ? Todd Nelson <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> a crit dans le message : $ tr61o2soc08f8d@corp.supernews.com...
 > Hello All..  >-J > Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use0 > them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days). >nH > I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these typesu > of problems also.  >sL > The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - and > in their cases.a >h > Thanks in advance. >M
 > Todd Nelson ' > Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PA-. > toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) com >- >    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2001 14:49:21 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?, Message-ID: <9ove9h$12m2$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  B I took a while to respond to this as I was looking for a copy of aC white paper I read back when we first went with DLT IV for backups.bB Sadly I can't locate it, but maybe someone knows where it might beA on th net.  I think I first saw it at the benchmark Storage site.I  C Just as a summary, when we first decided to go with DLT I figured I B would use the tapes till they had been used the recommended numberF of times and then bulk erase them and use them as TK-50's and TK-70's.H But,,,,  According to the white paper I saw, they are good for thousandsF of uses.  I have a rotating set of three tapes that I use now and haveG had no problems with them after over a year, which means every tape hasd been re-written about 80 times.t   YMMV.u   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   :   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:57:50 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?8 Message-ID: <naf6rt8rjk2164rnjqlih0m8tk8g5m3vcv@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:53:20 -0400, "Todd Nelson"   <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote:  H >We are using MAXELL branded tapes in DS-TZ89N-VW DLT drives attached to >OpenVMS Alpha 4000s.b, >We have two systems, and one drive on each. >oL >Both Drives have been replaced at least twice in the past 3 years. One just >yesterday.t >tM >All Compaq seems to tell me about the issue is that I should be using COMPAQhB >branded DLT Tapes... is this just a $$ scam or is this for real??  C We don't usually buy Maxell DLTs but did get a job lot of them at a F cheap price last year. I've just checked and they don't have a failureC rate higher than any other types as far as we can see. Currently weeD tend to buy BASF tapes with no problems. We never buy Compaq brandedF tapes. When a tape fails what happens? Does it break? Can VMS read the. label? Parity errors? Same in both drives etc?  > Maybe you got a bad batch. How about buying a few from another! supplier and stress testing them.n   >Thanks all. >e3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message 3 >news:ri26rtkomgto10cegv7h72vk2eh63v988e@4ax.com...t4 >> On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:01:31 -0400, "Todd Nelson"# >> <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote:  >> >> >Hello All..l >> >L >> >Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  We use2 >> >them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days). >> >J >> >I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have these >types >> >of problems also.N >>G >> Something is seriously wrong. We've had virtually no failures on DLTrA >> IV tapes cycled over 20 times so far,  I've seen DLT III tapes_& >> reliably cycle for around 100 uses. >>I >> How exactly do they fail and are they all used in a common drive? Whate1 >> make of DLT? I'd tend to suspect a drive fault  >>J >> >The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times - >and >> >in their cases.u >> > >> >Thanks in advance. >> > >> >Todd Nelsoni) >> >Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PAn0 >> >toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) com >> > >> >> --h >> Alan  >q   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:39:30 -0500s- From: "Terry Harris" <tharri11@bellsouth.net> 6 Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?, Message-ID: <9ovfch01ifg@enews1.newsguy.com>  J Every tape maker gets a bad batch now and then.  Those Manell tapes shouldG have some sort of warranty on them.  I had a problem some time ago with K Maxell tapes for a different sort of drive.  I called their support number,rJ explained the problem, got an RMA, and sent them the tapes.  They replaced, the bad tapes quite promptly with good ones.  8 "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote in message) news:tr689m6okjmu1a@corp.supernews.com...eI > We are using MAXELL branded tapes in DS-TZ89N-VW DLT drives attached toi > OpenVMS Alpha 4000s.- > We have two systems, and one drive on each.l >dH > Both Drives have been replaced at least twice in the past 3 years. One just > yesterday. >lG > All Compaq seems to tell me about the issue is that I should be using  COMPAQC > branded DLT Tapes... is this just a $$ scam or is this for real??s >s
 > Thanks all.t >s4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:ri26rtkomgto10cegv7h72vk2eh63v988e@4ax.com...5 > > On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:01:31 -0400, "Todd Nelson"a$ > > <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote: > >o > > >Hello All.. > > >oI > > >Many of our DLT Tapes start to fail only after five or six uses.  Wed uset3 > > >them on a rotating basis (once every 26 days).  > > > K > > >I am wondering if this is a unique experience, or if others have theseT > typesb > > >of problems also. > >.H > > Something is seriously wrong. We've had virtually no failures on DLTB > > IV tapes cycled over 20 times so far,  I've seen DLT III tapes' > > reliably cycle for around 100 uses.  > > J > > How exactly do they fail and are they all used in a common drive? What2 > > make of DLT? I'd tend to suspect a drive fault > >rK > > >The tapes are stored in temperature controlled settings at all times -o > andt > > >in their cases. > > >  > > >Thanks in advance.  > > >a > > >Todd Nelson* > > >Systems Manager, County of Lehigh, PA1 > > >toddnelson (underscore) at hotmail (dot) com0 > > >m > >m > > -- > > Alan >n >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:30:35 -0400@> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>6 Subject: RE: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last?M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016023E4@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>e   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Todd Nelson [mailto:toddnelson_@hotmail.com], > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 8:53 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt8 > Subject: Re: DLT IV Tapes - How long should they last? > > > We are using MAXELL branded tapes in DS-TZ89N-VW DLT drives 
 > attached to  > OpenVMS Alpha 4000s.- > We have two systems, and one drive on each.d > > > Both Drives have been replaced at least twice in the past 3  > years. One justl > yesterday. > ? > All Compaq seems to tell me about the issue is that I should g > be using COMPAQpC > branded DLT Tapes... is this just a $$ scam or is this for real??  > 
 > Thanks all.m  - Why not purchase a few Compaq tapes and test?   > I had a similar problem, and similar response from Compaq.  I 4 was a bit taken back also, until I did some testing.  ? The tape you purchase from Compaq can be used to prove to Fielda> Support whether the issue is with the tape drive(s), or it is  the tape media being used.  > I will say that since there are fair number of times that the = tape media is the problem, I can understand Field Suppport's  
 attitude.    :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadwayo Albany, NY  12204- USA- 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com   ) I post personal opinion only, and all theG* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s). + One should also take note of the Electronico) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whichM+ imposes civil and criminal liability on any.( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:18:31 +0100 & From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk># Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desirede- Message-ID: <3BB2EEE7.CD646A12@aerosys.co.uk>n   Bob Koehler wrote: > D >    Looking for a firewall and NAT that run on top of OpenVMS AlphaD >    and Multinet.  All I can find is DEC's old firewall that ran on1 >    top of UCX, it doesn't claim to provide NAT.   > >    Or do I have to roll my own via a Multinet packet filter?  N Lowest cost way is via an scrap 486 or P75 with 8 or 16 megs, 2 network cards,E floppy boot (no hard disk needed) and the Linux Router Project files:-   http://lrp.ramhb.co.nz/main.htm   * http://www.georgetoft.com/linux/index.html  N I used the latter ready built version out of lazyness. Took a few hours to set9 up and has been running for months now without a glitch.    = If you do use this and need sample config files, let me know.a   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:26:38 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> # Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desired 9 Message-ID: <daDs7.9377$%r.2763867@news20.bellglobal.com>   3 "ChrisQ" <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> wrote in messager' news:3BB2EEE7.CD646A12@aerosys.co.uk...  > Bob Koehler wrote: > >pF > >    Looking for a firewall and NAT that run on top of OpenVMS AlphaF > >    and Multinet.  All I can find is DEC's old firewall that ran on3 > >    top of UCX, it doesn't claim to provide NAT.- >-@ > >    Or do I have to roll my own via a Multinet packet filter? > I > Lowest cost way is via an scrap 486 or P75 with 8 or 16 megs, 2 networko cards,G > floppy boot (no hard disk needed) and the Linux Router Project files:h >. [snip]  L A hardware firewall is a much better solution but will cost a bit (to a lot)L more than the 486 method just mentioned. First off, I would recommend tryingK to locate a surplus CISCO PIX firewall on eBay. People have installed theses6 things and let them run for 5 years without a problem.  G A guaranteed cheaper (US$105 at www.Amazon.com) solution is to by a new G LinkSys BEFSR41 which incorporates a 4 port Ethernet switch with a usermL configurable firewall. Mine is configured to log onto my ISP (I have ADSL inL my home) with my account number and password which means no PPPoE client s/wE running on machines behind the firewall. I used this same solution toyK connect 3 PC's in my sister's home to the LinkSys at 100 MHz while a 10 MHzoE DSL line is presented to the ISP (because of NAT, the ISP sees one PC H running three browser sessions rather than three PCs running one browserJ session each). At the same time, the machines behind the firewall all haveK Windows "file sharing" and "print sharing" enabled so the kids can transfer2
 files etc.  : http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=20&grid=5L http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/electronics/B00004SB92/ tech-data/107-4072349-5129362 : http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/proxy_firewall.html  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,i Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:46:28 -0400e' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o# Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desiredb( Message-ID: <9ouvuu$fog$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:daDs7.9377$%r.2763867@news20.bellglobal.com...t   ...e  I > A guaranteed cheaper (US$105 at www.Amazon.com) solution is to by a new I > LinkSys BEFSR41 which incorporates a 4 port Ethernet switch with a user K > configurable firewall. Mine is configured to log onto my ISP (I have ADSL- inJ > my home) with my account number and password which means no PPPoE client s/wrG > running on machines behind the firewall. I used this same solution to:I > connect 3 PC's in my sister's home to the LinkSys at 100 MHz while a 10g MHzcG > DSL line is presented to the ISP (because of NAT, the ISP sees one PCtJ > running three browser sessions rather than three PCs running one browserL > session each). At the same time, the machines behind the firewall all haveD > Windows "file sharing" and "print sharing" enabled so the kids can transfer > files etc. >a< > http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=20&grid=5 > L http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/electronics/B00004SB92/ > tech-data/107-4072349-5129362 < > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/proxy_firewall.html  J As one who has recently been investigating such a configuration, I'd agree! but note that at least one sourceoG  http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/sharingcable.htm - see theTH section on product recommendations) has reported data integrity problems with that LinkSys box.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:20:52 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> # Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desiredn9 Message-ID: <9TDs7.9524$%r.2777889@news20.bellglobal.com>?  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9ouvuu$fog$1@pyrite.mv.net... >c [snip] >hL > As one who has recently been investigating such a configuration, I'd agree# > but note that at least one source I >  http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/sharingcable.htm - see theoJ > section on product recommendations) has reported data integrity problems > with that LinkSys box. >  > - bill >xF Yeah, I've been here before. This is a good info site but I've got oneI complaint about it; some of the gotcha-pages refer to problems which havetH been solved by subsequent firmware releases. When I bought my LinkSys inB 1999 it was delivered with firmware release 1.28. Since then, I'veK downloaded and reflashed my system and am currently running the very stableeG version 1.37. Yesterday (on 2001.09.26) LinkSys released firmware 1.40.   J p.s. LinkSys is not the only company releasing firmware upgrades for their products; they all do.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:23:37 +0100 & From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk># Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desiredh, Message-ID: <3BB30C39.87E7A1B@aerosys.co.uk>   Neil Rieck wrote:c >    > N > A hardware firewall is a much better solution but will cost a bit (to a lot)+ > more than the 486 method just mentioned. o  K Why ?. Have you actually looked at the lrp stuff before making such blanketeE statements ?. Or isn't a Linux solution expensive enough for you ?...    Chrise   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:46:34 -0700a* From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desirede) Message-ID: <3BB32DBA.53B9D9D4@yahoo.com>l   Neil Rieck wrote:h  5 > "ChrisQ" <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> wrote in message ) > news:3BB2EEE7.CD646A12@aerosys.co.uk...e > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > >gH > > >    Looking for a firewall and NAT that run on top of OpenVMS AlphaH > > >    and Multinet.  All I can find is DEC's old firewall that ran on5 > > >    top of UCX, it doesn't claim to provide NAT.t > >lB > > >    Or do I have to roll my own via a Multinet packet filter? > >mK > > Lowest cost way is via an scrap 486 or P75 with 8 or 16 megs, 2 networkv > cards,I > > floppy boot (no hard disk needed) and the Linux Router Project files:w > >i > [snip] > N > A hardware firewall is a much better solution but will cost a bit (to a lot)N > more than the 486 method just mentioned. First off, I would recommend tryingM > to locate a surplus CISCO PIX firewall on eBay. People have installed these,8 > things and let them run for 5 years without a problem. >(I > A guaranteed cheaper (US$105 at www.Amazon.com) solution is to by a new3I > LinkSys BEFSR41 which incorporates a 4 port Ethernet switch with a userT > configurable firewall.  P Second the motion on this.  If you already have a hub and only need the firewall you candM save a few bucks by getting the LinkSys BEFSR11 ($85 on yahoo).  I've run onem with my P home net work of 3 pc's and a network printer for a year or so with no problems.   Jimu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:56:36 -0500 . From: Duncan Brown <brown_du@eisner.decus.org># Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desirede/ Message-ID: <3BB33014.A3BDBF1@eisner.decus.org>m   James Gessling wrote:  >  > Neil Rieck wrote:  > 7 > > "ChrisQ" <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> wrote in messageh+ > > news:3BB2EEE7.CD646A12@aerosys.co.uk...  > > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > > >PJ > > > >    Looking for a firewall and NAT that run on top of OpenVMS AlphaJ > > > >    and Multinet.  All I can find is DEC's old firewall that ran on7 > > > >    top of UCX, it doesn't claim to provide NAT.o > > >sD > > > >    Or do I have to roll my own via a Multinet packet filter? > > >iM > > > Lowest cost way is via an scrap 486 or P75 with 8 or 16 megs, 2 network 
 > > cards,K > > > floppy boot (no hard disk needed) and the Linux Router Project files:k > > >e
 > > [snip] > >nP > > A hardware firewall is a much better solution but will cost a bit (to a lot)P > > more than the 486 method just mentioned. First off, I would recommend tryingO > > to locate a surplus CISCO PIX firewall on eBay. People have installed theses: > > things and let them run for 5 years without a problem. > >aK > > A guaranteed cheaper (US$105 at www.Amazon.com) solution is to by a newrK > > LinkSys BEFSR41 which incorporates a 4 port Ethernet switch with a user, > > configurable firewall. > R > Second the motion on this.  If you already have a hub and only need the firewall	 > you can-O > save a few bucks by getting the LinkSys BEFSR11 ($85 on yahoo).  I've run onei	 > with mysR > home net work of 3 pc's and a network printer for a year or so with no problems.  H Another vote for the BEFSR11 and a hub.  I have a couple of Alphas, someH PCs, some VXTs all networked in the house, all sharing access to the DSL> internet connection via a Linksys box.  I have mapped incomingF telnet/ftp/http to the VMS box, and everything else is blocked.  Works
 like a charm.e   Duncan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:30:56 -0400T- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>4# Subject: Re: firewall & NAT desired - Message-ID: <3BB35440.7E6A149E@bellsouth.net>a   Duncan Brown wrote:h   > James Gessling wrote:y > >d > > Neil Rieck wrote:e > >o9 > > > "ChrisQ" <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk> wrote in message - > > > news:3BB2EEE7.CD646A12@aerosys.co.uk...  > > > > Bob Koehler wrote:	 > > > > >bL > > > > >    Looking for a firewall and NAT that run on top of OpenVMS AlphaL > > > > >    and Multinet.  All I can find is DEC's old firewall that ran on9 > > > > >    top of UCX, it doesn't claim to provide NAT.s > > > >pF > > > > >    Or do I have to roll my own via a Multinet packet filter? > > > > O > > > > Lowest cost way is via an scrap 486 or P75 with 8 or 16 megs, 2 networkb > > > cards,M > > > > floppy boot (no hard disk needed) and the Linux Router Project files:n > > > >k > > > [snip] > > >eR > > > A hardware firewall is a much better solution but will cost a bit (to a lot)R > > > more than the 486 method just mentioned. First off, I would recommend tryingQ > > > to locate a surplus CISCO PIX firewall on eBay. People have installed theseo< > > > things and let them run for 5 years without a problem. > > >sM > > > A guaranteed cheaper (US$105 at www.Amazon.com) solution is to by a newcM > > > LinkSys BEFSR41 which incorporates a 4 port Ethernet switch with a user  > > > configurable firewall. > >yT > > Second the motion on this.  If you already have a hub and only need the firewall > > you canlQ > > save a few bucks by getting the LinkSys BEFSR11 ($85 on yahoo).  I've run one  > > with myrT > > home net work of 3 pc's and a network printer for a year or so with no problems. >rJ > Another vote for the BEFSR11 and a hub.  I have a couple of Alphas, someJ > PCs, some VXTs all networked in the house, all sharing access to the DSL@ > internet connection via a Linksys box.  I have mapped incomingH > telnet/ftp/http to the VMS box, and everything else is blocked.  Works > like a charm.  >e > Duncan  S And for those who want to run a webserver on that VMS box behind a BEFSR41 on PPPoEDU where the IP address changes constantly and you cannot get static IP addresses, there U is a solution.  Use something like WWW.ZONEEDIT.COM for free (if you don't use it too O much) Dynamic DNS service.  I will let you know in the next day or so how it isaS working... Until I can get a ddclient running under PERL on OpenVMS, I have a linuxt4 box getting the dynamic address from the router/hub.   Michael Austin DBA Consultant   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:09:30 +0000 (UTC)k& From: dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster)  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's5 Message-ID: <9ouqca$21iq$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>   J In article <9nid8c$7b0$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:L >We did that two months ago. The systems were bought in 1993 or so and neverK >had a hardware call. A two node 6310 CI cluster with SC008 and two HSC50's  >wasM >shut down. The systems cannot leave by the stairs so logistical problems aretA >at the moment the only reason that the cluster is still there...r  F Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how" did they get originally installed?  H My interest is a little more than merely academic - I run into this kindL of issue a few times a year :-) Right now I'm thinking about how to mothballH a 2000 pound machine for a few months in temporary storage until the bigJ move to another building. This is harder than I'd like, mostly because theH elevator only takes it out of the building; other route involves stairs,M and it's, well, a PITA. I'm hoping to be able to somehow roll it to the otherI' nearby room if I can get it over there.   I My dream has always been to work in a building where the computer room isd on the first floor. :-)L   -Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:42:44 GMTu0 From: "P. Thompson" <thompson-nospam@new.rr.com>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400'sJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109270741430.17402-100000@malacandra.localnet>  & On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Dan Foster wrote:  H > Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how$ > did they get originally installed?  < Our 6000's came in via crane through a trapdoor in the roof.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:46:11 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's@ Message-ID: <20010927134611.29377.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  0 The first DEC VAX I worked was a VAX 6420 ...=20 A long time ago !=20     Regards.   FC=20u5 --- "P. Thompson" <thompson-nospam@new.rr.com> wrote: ( > On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Dan Foster wrote: >=201 > > Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be0 > removed via stairs - how& > > did they get originally installed? >=204 > Our 6000's came in via crane through a trapdoor in > the roof.  >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DpL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3De F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazill fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dm  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.  http://phone.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:32:36 -0400 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>f  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's' Message-ID: <3BB32A7B.2590209@ohio.edu>t  L There is a device known as a "stair crawler" which we used some years ago toM move 1800 lb IBM mainframes out of a basement with no elevator.  This critter5M had treads like a tank driven by an electric motor under a flat platform.  IfiM the stairs are too steep, you need to have someone on the high end pulling on K straps to keep the box from tipping over backward off of the crawler's flattO platform.  If the weight is almost too much, you sometimes have to get in undermM the crawler's platform to fiddle with the drive.  I was glad I wasn't the one  who had to do that!i  #                                 RDP      Dan Foster wrote:1  L > In article <9nid8c$7b0$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:N > >We did that two months ago. The systems were bought in 1993 or so and neverM > >had a hardware call. A two node 6310 CI cluster with SC008 and two HSC50's  > >wasO > >shut down. The systems cannot leave by the stairs so logistical problems are C > >at the moment the only reason that the cluster is still there...a >MH > Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how$ > did they get originally installed? >oJ > My interest is a little more than merely academic - I run into this kindN > of issue a few times a year :-) Right now I'm thinking about how to mothballJ > a 2000 pound machine for a few months in temporary storage until the bigL > move to another building. This is harder than I'd like, mostly because theJ > elevator only takes it out of the building; other route involves stairs,O > and it's, well, a PITA. I'm hoping to be able to somehow roll it to the othery) > nearby room if I can get it over there.e >eK > My dream has always been to work in a building where the computer room isi > on the first floor. :-)e >  > -Dan   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:03:52 GMTt  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's8 Message-ID: <v7j6rt40k8vl3q9rje0gd6ikl862h6t8j6@4ax.com>  F Reminds me of a place I worked where the original UPS was put into theA basement.  It was placed there *before* completion of the buldingj5 (with a crane), and the building was built around it.l  E When it became too old and had to be removed, they used leadshot/ball C berings spread on the floor in order to "roll" it down the hall.  IdD can't recall how they got it up the staircase, but it must have been some bit of work.p  E They used the balls on the floor because a wheeled cart would lift it % too high to fit through the doorways.e  / On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:42:44 GMT, "P. Thompson"o# <thompson-nospam@new.rr.com> wrote:u  ' >On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Dan Foster wrote:e >hI >> Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how1% >> did they get originally installed?s >e= >Our 6000's came in via crane through a trapdoor in the roof.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:20:21 +0100.( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's( Message-ID: <3BB351C5.732FB18@127.0.0.1>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > / > The first DEC VAX I worked was a VAX 6420 ...s > A long time ago !p   Is that a long time ago?  E When I started with VMS, the 64xx wasn't even a twinkle in a hardware6 engineers eyes.y  F 11/750's for me.  They were used until well after the 6000 series wereE released though, but that's another story. There's an 11/780 still in 2 service I know about but that's yet another story.   -- 0( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:28:50 -0400N From: William_Bochnik@acml.com  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's> Message-ID: <OF1A3F6335.3A903F9C-ON85256AD4.005A7E8A@acml.com>  / 8650 circa 1988 - those were the days (sniffle)b      p                                                                                                                 p                     Nic Clews                                                                                   p                     <sendspamhere@                To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                                    p                     127.0.0.1>                    cc:                                                           p                                           Subject:     Re: Good bye VAX-6400's                                  p                     09/27/2001                                                                                  p                     12:20 PM                                                                                    p                     Please respond                                                                              p                     to Nic Clews                                                                                p                     <sendspamhere@                                                                              p                     127.0.0.1>                                                                                  p                                                                                                                 p                                                                                                                        Fabio Cardoso wrote: >m/ > The first DEC VAX I worked was a VAX 6420 ...e > A long time ago !    Is that a long time ago?  E When I started with VMS, the 64xx wasn't even a twinkle in a hardwaret engineers eyes.h  F 11/750's for me.  They were used until well after the 6000 series wereE released though, but that's another story. There's an 11/780 still ins2 service I know about but that's yet another story.   --( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma          F ______________________________________________________________________J  The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)K name above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentaF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication isdK strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contactwD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.3   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:09:51 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)o  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's7 Message-ID: <912984774warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>   ) dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster) wrote inh+ <9ouqca$21iq$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>:    D >In article <9nid8c$7b0$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> >wrote: G >>We did that two months ago. The systems were bought in 1993 or so and-F >>never had a hardware call. A two node 6310 CI cluster with SC008 and >>two HSC50's wasgA >>shut down. The systems cannot leave by the stairs so logisticalDF >>problems are at the moment the only reason that the cluster is still >>there... y >oG >Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - howo# >did they get originally installed?o >gI >My interest is a little more than merely academic - I run into this kindiD >of issue a few times a year :-) Right now I'm thinking about how toD >mothball a 2000 pound machine for a few months in temporary storageF >until the big move to another building. This is harder than I'd like,E >mostly because the elevator only takes it out of the building; other H >route involves stairs, and it's, well, a PITA. I'm hoping to be able toE >somehow roll it to the other nearby room if I can get it over there.i >cG >My dream has always been to work in a building where the computer roomf >is on the first floor. :-)  >l >-Dan   G I once heard of removing a large window on the 23rd floor, and using a a! crane to hoist from street level.    ws   -- (   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)n The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:12:32 -0400n- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>s  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's+ Message-ID: <sbb325d3.051@AAASMTA.aaas.org>n  F Very interesting. This is the first place I've ever worked where the =G IT/IS/MIS people weren't in the basement. We're on the 9th floor, and =6A lucky the biggest thing in our computer room is the phone switch.:  E >>> Warren Spencer <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> 09/27/2001 1:09:51 PM >>>o) dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster) wrote inR- <9ouqca$21iq$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>:=20y  D >In article <9nid8c$7b0$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl>
 >wrote:=20G >>We did that two months ago. The systems were bought in 1993 or so andrF >>never had a hardware call. A two node 6310 CI cluster with SC008 and >>two HSC50's wastA >>shut down. The systems cannot leave by the stairs so logisticaloF >>problems are at the moment the only reason that the cluster is still
 >>there...=20  > G >Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how # >did they get originally installed?a >dI >My interest is a little more than merely academic - I run into this kind D >of issue a few times a year :-) Right now I'm thinking about how toD >mothball a 2000 pound machine for a few months in temporary storageF >until the big move to another building. This is harder than I'd like,E >mostly because the elevator only takes it out of the building; otherrH >route involves stairs, and it's, well, a PITA. I'm hoping to be able toE >somehow roll it to the other nearby room if I can get it over there.a >pG >My dream has always been to work in a building where the computer roomd >is on the first floor. :-)a >a >-Dan   I I once heard of removing a large window on the 23rd floor, and using a=20h! crane to hoist from street level.I   ws   --=20    Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)o The Associated Press  K ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do =s I=20 **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:16:56 +0200e" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's( Message-ID: <9ovmse$fcn$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  G The computer room is on the top floor of the building. That floor house- elevator machinery,eF mains power equipment etc. and is smaller that the other three floors.J A narrow door gives access to the roof. To accomodate the 6310's, the door
 and its framecK were removed. A crane lifted the systems and we swung them until they could  be dropped just" inside the that hole.uJ Putting them in the computer room was easy... Our main computer room is on the ground floorK and you really appreciate your luck after installing equipment in buildingsf with difficult access.  
 Good luck,  
 Hans Vlems  1 Dan Foster <dsf@frontiernet.net> wrote in message / news:9ouqca$21iq$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net... L > In article <9nid8c$7b0$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:H > >We did that two months ago. The systems were bought in 1993 or so and never E > >had a hardware call. A two node 6310 CI cluster with SC008 and two  HSC50's  > >wasK > >shut down. The systems cannot leave by the stairs so logistical problemsa are C > >at the moment the only reason that the cluster is still there...8 >eH > Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how$ > did they get originally installed? >pJ > My interest is a little more than merely academic - I run into this kindE > of issue a few times a year :-) Right now I'm thinking about how tom mothballJ > a 2000 pound machine for a few months in temporary storage until the bigL > move to another building. This is harder than I'd like, mostly because theJ > elevator only takes it out of the building; other route involves stairs,I > and it's, well, a PITA. I'm hoping to be able to somehow roll it to thev othern) > nearby room if I can get it over there.' >nK > My dream has always been to work in a building where the computer room isr > on the first floor. :-)h >  > -Dan >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:19:24 +0200s" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's( Message-ID: <9ovn12$fk2$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  D I've seen equipment like that. But you still need some room to turn.E On narrow stairs that turn 180 degrees between floors it's no option.B' Other than that it's a great invention.a   Hans  6 Richard D. Piccard <piccard@ohio.edu> wrote in message! news:3BB32A7B.2590209@ohio.edu...WK > There is a device known as a "stair crawler" which we used some years ago  toG > move 1800 lb IBM mainframes out of a basement with no elevator.  Thisg critteriK > had treads like a tank driven by an electric motor under a flat platform.d IfL > the stairs are too steep, you need to have someone on the high end pulling onH > straps to keep the box from tipping over backward off of the crawler's flatK > platform.  If the weight is almost too much, you sometimes have to get in1 under.K > the crawler's platform to fiddle with the drive.  I was glad I wasn't theh one@ > who had to do that!  >t% >                                 RDPt >  >3 > Dan Foster wrote:d >hG > > In article <9nid8c$7b0$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl>s wrote:J > > >We did that two months ago. The systems were bought in 1993 or so and neveroG > > >had a hardware call. A two node 6310 CI cluster with SC008 and twoo HSC50'st > > >wasD > > >shut down. The systems cannot leave by the stairs so logistical problems areE > > >at the moment the only reason that the cluster is still there...s > >fJ > > Pardon - out of curiosity... if they can't be removed via stairs - how& > > did they get originally installed? > >aL > > My interest is a little more than merely academic - I run into this kindG > > of issue a few times a year :-) Right now I'm thinking about how ton mothballL > > a 2000 pound machine for a few months in temporary storage until the bigJ > > move to another building. This is harder than I'd like, mostly because theoL > > elevator only takes it out of the building; other route involves stairs,K > > and it's, well, a PITA. I'm hoping to be able to somehow roll it to ther other + > > nearby room if I can get it over there.c > >:J > > My dream has always been to work in a building where the computer room is > > on the first floor. :-)7 > >2 > > -Dan >e > --D > ==================================================================D > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University >  >b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:25:41 +02000" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>9 Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's; 8550 still going strong=( Message-ID: <9ovncs$gj6$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  E Ah the 11/750 and its slower nephew the 11/730. Now that was a way of  learningH to appreciate systems that could boot from disk directly instead from an emulatedI disk like the TU58. It made me wish for an 11/40 again, but that wasn't a  VAX.J Our 11/750's were replaced by an 8650, I wonder if those are still around.D Until last month we ran an 8550 but somebody threw away the PRO boot	 floppies.3? We still need access to that machine, anyone can copy us a set?   
 Hans Vlems  3 Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message=" news:3BB351C5.732FB18@127.0.0.1... > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >_1 > > The first DEC VAX I worked was a VAX 6420 ...o > > A long time ago !  >r > Is that a long time ago? >pG > When I started with VMS, the 64xx wasn't even a twinkle in a hardware  > engineers eyes.: >3H > 11/750's for me.  They were used until well after the 6000 series wereG > released though, but that's another story. There's an 11/780 still ind4 > service I know about but that's yet another story. >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:14:31 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>   Subject: Re: Help with UNZIP.EXE< Message-ID: <howard-F51899.12143127092001@enews.newsguy.com>  ' In article <3BB29E0D.E366999C@fsi.net>,m3  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:v  0 > > In article <9ot4vi$30ha$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>,7 > >  bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:o > > A > > > File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWE, Group:RE, World:1 > > > Access Cntrl List:  None  D > Hhmmm... I'd need to compare the directory protections against theH > current process UIC - SYSTEM owns the dir.'s, but both Group and WorldC > are denied write access. Something tells me it may be a privileges > problem in disguise.  O That's what the protection mask should address.  However, as SYSTEM and as the lL creator of the directories involved, which have O:RWE, he should be able to J put files in there.  This could be a bug in the version of UNZIP he's got. -- ? Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 12:04:44 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: How to install Adobe Acrobat Viewer ?* Message-ID: <3bb2f9bc$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  c In article <FC0aPPd9djIT@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:tF >In article <3B908B5E.50209@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:J >> I am trying to install the Acrobat Viewer following the instructions on >> oE >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/pdf_viewer.htmle >>  L >> However this page is a bit out of date, because it references to a older  >> version of Java.  >  >This works for me with 1.3.0:  / Did you already try it with the V1.3.1 (beta) ? + This one is required for JAVA in MOZILLA....   >$define classpath -E >  "/disk/dir/subdir/acrobat.jar:/disk/dir/subdir/MRJTookitStubs.zip"h1 >$java -mx32m "com.adobe.acrobat.Viewer" filenamez >mF >The MRJToolkitStubs.zip is available from Apple.  I don't know what's >triggering the call to it.   D I found it at http://developer.apple.com/java/download.html#softwareC in the MacIntosh Runtime for Java (MRJ) which is currenly at V2.2.5wK but I don't know how to unpack MAC binaries to get this one file extracted.d  0 Maybe you could share/offer this one file, too ?   -Peter  I PS: Steve, any chance that this might get included in the freeware area ?e2 I haven't checked the license situation, though... -- t< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 08:04:15 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s2 Subject: Re: How to install Adobe Acrobat Viewer ?3 Message-ID: <8ti++V0IQlGZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3bb2f9bc$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:R > 2 > Maybe you could share/offer this one file, too ? >   I    Copyright Apple, so I can't give it to you.  Any Mac can unpackit for  E    you.  When I posted before that I found it required someone posteddA    that it would be looked into.  It may somehow have been picked @    up by having that file in my classpath while I was installing    Mozilla.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:10:59 +0200e9 From: "Groen, N. (sl)" <Norbert.Groen@soz.pinkroccade.nl>e5 Subject: RE: Is it possible to set system-wide flags?o@ Message-ID: <7DE31FAF0D4FD211A4460000F87A853B0457623F@ASZMSG001>  I > > Now I have to setup flags (or semaphores) and events to lock acces to4 > thee > > section. > G > Use the SYS$ENQ system service.  Before writing, convert the lock to e6 > exclusive; when done, convert to null.  Works great. > G > You might want to include the node name in the name of the resource,  E > just in case you run the same programs on two nodes -- their locks  B > would collide (lock on node A would lock the section on node B). > H Thank you for the quick feedback. IIRC the ppl$ library uses that calls.L After months of programming and testing, I got failures and big lockups last week. E Yesterday I was out of any new ideas, about how to solve my problems.   J Now I have rewritten my mapping (attaching) section with better use of the0 function ppl$find_object_id and ppl$k_init_size.J I think this is gonna work, otherwise I maybe forced to use the underlying# (obscure) lib$enq, et al, routines.    Thanks,    Norbert    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:58:46 -0400e, From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>* Subject: Re: Looking for help with a DTC01( Message-ID: <3BB34CB6.585A93C6@osfn.org>   Al Kossow wrote: > W > From article <3BACD696.583067D9@osfn.org>, by "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>:   > > "Michael L. Umbricht" wrote: > >>J > >> When I turn the DTC01 on, a series of "touch tones" plays through the > L > A web search revealed that there are text versions of the DTC01 manuals atC > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/DECTALK/MANUAL/   H That site only contains info for the DECtalk software package.  There is no hardware info.    -mikeu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:03:56 -0400 0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca>/ Subject: Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacyn5 Message-ID: <xWIs7.62866$TW.342122@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>a  6 > Those still on VMS accept that it is a legacy systemK > with a not-so-bright future, but figured that it was still better to stayt onA > VMS and wait for an acceptable replacement to become available.   I I agree with this but there is no need to scare people off it to make its I decline go faster. For a moment I hoped that an "acceptable replacement:"_G was in development, but now that HP will throw away Tru64 all hopes areo gone.r  J Don't you find it stupid that Compaq took all the good stuff in OpenVMS toJ reproduce it in Tru64, and now HP will take all the good stuff in Tru64 to port it on MPE?pI What a loss of time. Having OpenVMS and Tru64 was good because there is a H strong market for Unix systems, and eventually when VMS users would haveB been convinced that Tru64 is as good/reliable as VMS (however withK unmeaningfull crappy - but effective - command language) they would be morer intent to switch.   J Now we have to wait for another cycle with the HP takeover, for MPE to getF as good as Tru64 (and a bit more). In the meantime, I hope no one willK conduct a deliberate campaign to get people scared of using VMS. It's stillrK the best OS around, and will be for a few years still. And as long as there J are supporters for it, the competition (is there such a thing still?) willH want to add the godd stuff (clustering etc) to their own OSes eventually& ending up with a suitable replacement.  J But in an ideal world, OpenVMS would be kept alive and well marketed as anE alternative to UNIXes and NT (the latter I do not even consider as anoI eventual replacement to VMS because of its bad architecture). There is no K way that one day we will only have one OS, for the same reason we have many > programming languages. There is no such thing as one fits all.   --   SyltremII http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)n> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  G "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> a crit dans le message news:e! 3BB22AEF.1F44E5CF@videotron.ca...h > Syltrem wrote: > >tH > > Why don't you post the email address of this guy so that we SPAM him with > > our complaints?o >s >hH > Why ? The guy is right.  Those still on VMS accept that it is a legacy systemK > with a not-so-bright future, but figured that it was still better to stayt onA > VMS and wait for an acceptable replacement to become available.t   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 09:34:54 -0700 From: mpayne@pfsc.com (Mark) Subject: Memory Usage(= Message-ID: <d27152c7.0109270834.6e470c68@posting.google.com>   C I am looking for the best way to show a summary of memory usage.  I-F know that I can do a show process to get a memory usage on that singleA process but I want to see everything that is in memory.  Example:0   user_1       2300 pages5 user_2       3800 pagese image1.exe   12000 pages .i .  .c  E Does anyone know of a program (freeware or not) that does this?  Am I 5 missing some basic monitor command that will do this?   ( We are running VMS 5.5.2 on an MVAX 3100   Thanx in advance   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:47:22 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Memory Usager) Message-ID: <3BB3581A.88D88823@127.0.0.1>e   Mark wrote:n > G > Does anyone know of a program (freeware or not) that does this?  Am I 7 > missing some basic monitor command that will do this?C  G Not exactly sure what you're asking to be displayed, but using F$GETJPIo3 and a little imagination you can get what you want.a  > Have you tried SYS$EXAMPLES::WORKING_SET.COM ? (Older versions WORKSET.COM ?)  H I've a hacked about version which gives me what I want to see, useful toE you, I dunno. To be honest its not really that simple, because sharedrH memory appears the number of times it is shared, potentially, so I thinkG you need to know what the question is before you know how to understandw the answer.m   -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 12:51:14 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s Subject: Re: Memory Usaget3 Message-ID: <MLngYS6FVw2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <d27152c7.0109270834.6e470c68@posting.google.com>, mpayne@pfsc.com (Mark) writes:E > I am looking for the best way to show a summary of memory usage.  IoH > know that I can do a show process to get a memory usage on that singleC > process but I want to see everything that is in memory.  Example:w >  > user_1       2300 pagesh > user_2       3800 pages  > image1.exe   12000 pages  # Physical memory or virtual memory ? ( Counting pages on the free list or not ?, Counting pages on the modified list or not ?  8 I am not sure why this information would be of interest.4 In general, usage will increase until you hit quota.C Making every user's quota extremely large just to get a measuremento is burdensome.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 06:02:48 -0700+ From: stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin)h Subject: Re: Need help with RMS < Message-ID: <fdd7874.0109270502.4bfd50f4@posting.google.com>  p hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires) wrote in message news:<ff921edf.0109261107.5e861be7@posting.google.com>...= > I am working on a database program for keeping track of ourn: > HobbesNet users and aiding in the process of registering> > accounts, and have run into a problem either with RMS or the> > software package I am using to access RMS.  At least I think> > it is a problem involving RMS; I can't make any sense of it.< > So I'm here to beg for help hoping someone will be able to > figure this out. > > > I'm using the RMS Interface package by Mark S. Frank which IA > found in Hunter Goatley's fileserv.  Calvin is running VMS 7.2.'  > If you have access to Fortran compiler, I suggest you use that; language sophisticated IO (at least compared to C) to writenE subroutines that access your indexed file. I have personnally done it. and it works perfectly.   2 I can give you more info and examples if you want.   Hope this helps  Stphane   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 10:18:01 -0700+ From: hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires)h Subject: Re: Need help with RMSm= Message-ID: <ff921edf.0109270918.5df52cb9@posting.google.com>o  ` JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BB25951.43F294F@videotron.ca>...N > For instance, when you initially load all records, you probably have the SEQ= > option in the RAB to indicate that each $GET is sequential.r   True.c  O > I suspect you may have sequential access set on that RAB and you might need atO > second RAB for direct/indexed access to the file. Does the update routine set-5 > the RAC field of the RAB to RAB$C_KEY or RAB$C_SEQ.0  F The RMS_FINDKEY routine changes the record access to KEY.  But just in case IB added a line to set the record access to KEY and recompiled and it	 still hasl the same problem.t  O > From the code snippets you gave, it looks like you have some wrapper routines O > that give you access to RMS services. You will need to look into those to seeu8 > what sort of record processing options are being used.  > The wrapper routines are a package by Mark S. Frank called RMS Interface.  ItC comprehensive.  I thought it might be a problem with RMS Interface,g but theiB test program I put together works, and I can't figure out why this code isd having such a problem.  ? I am quite curious why UPDATE returns a success code when it istE preceded by the GET (sequential) and then the FIND (keyed) (though itlA did not in fact succeed), and an error code (CHG) when it is onlyv preceded by a keyed FIND.   O > Look that the VMS documentation, in particular the RMS manual for the $UPDATE M > and $FIND routines , notably which fields are read (input) and set (output)t > for each of those routines.<  @ From the docs is looks like update doesn't input the RAC anyway.   Thanks for the suggestions,T
 Scott Squires    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:47:38 -0700 2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam> Subject: Re: Need help with RMSt2 Message-ID: <9ovopk$39o$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  7 The problem you are encountering is probably located int9 the RMS_FINDKEY, RMS_GETSEQ, or RMS_UPDATE routine. Thesen5 routines are calling RMS and they are doing somethinga wrong.  9 Please note that several years ago, a very old latent buga7 was fixed in RMS.  When this bug was fixed, a number ofy5 applications broke, even though the applications were ; running successfully for years.  I forget the exact detailse6 but it involved RMS not verifying that a RAB field was9 initialized to zero.  This means that if application code 9 did not initialize every RAB field to zero that should be 7 initialized to zero, the program could run successfullyh6 on older versions of VMS but might fail on more recent9 versions.  The solution is to make sure all RAB, FAB, XABk! fields are correctly initialized.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:51:32 -0400=' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>= Subject: Re: Need help with RMS ( Message-ID: <9ovorj$5io$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Scott Squires" <hobbesnet@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:ff921edf.0109270918.5df52cb9@posting.google.com...    ...   A > I am quite curious why UPDATE returns a success code when it isaG > preceded by the GET (sequential) and then the FIND (keyed) (though it C > did not in fact succeed), and an error code (CHG) when it is onlyD > preceded by a keyed FIND.>  L I haven't looked at your code, so this may be a silly observation.  But thatJ said, what you describe above sounds as if the record buffer being used byL the UPDATE may contain trash if only FIND is used (since FIND doesn't returnD a record, just a context for a subsequent operation) but is suitably+ initialized when a GET precedes the UPDATE.a  E That would explain why the UPDATE thinks the key is changing, anyway. L Adding a bit of code prior to the UPDATE to check the record buffer contentsJ and make sure the key value there is what you believe it ought to be wouldH catch this (assuming that you indeed check the buffer that the UPDATE is using).o   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:57:59 -0400M' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>r Subject: Re: Need help with RMS ( Message-ID: <9ovp7m$5je$1@pyrite.mv.net>  > Oh - and do make sure the FIND specifies an *exact* key match.   - bill  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9ovorj$5io$1@pyrite.mv.net...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:36:04 GMT " From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>% Subject: Re: Really Unhackable...????r: Message-ID: <oiDs7.2237$mY4.749729@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Nic Clews wrote:   > Jack Patteeuw wrote:L >> The most common VMS hack is a "wet hack" (convincing a human to give up a >> password orG >> using a simple password for important accounts).  Read the book "The. >> Kukoo's (sp?)( >> Egg" about the "early days"  hacking. > G > From  what I remember about reading the book (Cuckoo's Egg), it was arJ > UNIX system with an accounting package, where there was some discrepancyF > between the systems' own, and a homebrew accounting package by a fewJ > cents which started the trail. I don't recall VMS systems being involvedJ > but tis about 8 years or more since I read the book, which reads well as > I do recall. > J The intrusions were primarily Unix systems although many VAX systems were L hit.  Once inside, the hacker was not really sure what to do because he had G no training in VAX.  On the VAX systems, he was more or less exploring.i   -- s Art Rice Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------* All opinions are my own and do not reflect* the views of the above mentioned employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:01:12 +0100k( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: Really Unhackable...????p) Message-ID: <3BB306F8.AC485BA2@127.0.0.1>i   Steven Whatley wrote:n > 0 > Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> wrote:J > > Read the book "The Kukoo's (sp?) Egg" about the "early days"  hacking. > F > Read the book years ago.  I though it was very good and interesting.H > There is also a "Hackers Guide to VMS" floating around.  But it prettyE > much requires the hacker to already have an account with the CMKRNL 
 > priviledge.   E I've read one or two hackers guides to VMS, and they make interestingeE reading, particularly how they apply generalism and assumptions aboutiD VMS by the way "they" observed particular configurations behaving. IE have not seen anything that is 'recent' though, what I read was based G around early versions of V5 and V4. What was most entertaining was whatj& they reckoned each privilege gave you.  H I've seen stuff that as you say requires privilege (or levels of) but itH discusses how to get 'further', but only sloppy or silly system securityH management practices would allow such abuse of a system. Todays "out theG box" VMS doesn't allow these weaknesses, unlike certain other operating  systems :-)t   -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:12:21 -0500 ( From: "Bill Ames" <billames@accunet.net>> Subject: Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que?/ Message-ID: <tr6jt6ab25tq83@corp.supernews.com>-  F Does anyone know how a batch que knows which scratch directory to use?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:33:28 +0000s  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comB Subject: Re: Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que?/ Message-ID: <00256AD4.0060745E.00@quegw01.btyp>b  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    N I think it users the default directory of the user/account the job runs under,' unless specified within the job itself.a   Steve Spires        < "Bill Ames" <billames@accunet.net> on 09/27/2001 04:12:21 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)-K From:      "Bill Ames" <billames@accunet.net>, 27 September 2001, 4:12 p.m.b  5 Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que?l        F Does anyone know how a batch que knows which scratch directory to use?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:39:57 -0400t% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> B Subject: Re: Scratch Directory's. How are the tied to a batch que?/ Message-ID: <tr6livre5meh27@news.supernews.com>.  . A batch queue doesn't use a scratch directory.  K For jobs running in a batch queue, it's the same as an interactive process.gJ SYS$SCRATCH is defined to be the same as SYS$LOGIN.  If you want to change, it, define SYS$SCRATCH to be somewhere else.  3 "Bill Ames" <billames@accunet.net> wrote in messagel) news:tr6jt6ab25tq83@corp.supernews.com...,H > Does anyone know how a batch que knows which scratch directory to use? >i >s >b >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:44:15 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>J Subject: Re: SNMP client software for OpenVMS (Alpha or VAX, Motif or CLI)@ Message-ID: <20010927114415.87204.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  # I dont know what do you really want-  . But there is a company which have SNMP Agents. MAy be they can help you.m   http://www.comtekservices.com:    * Or you wait for HP OpenVIew for OpenVMS=20 in a few months ! :-))))       Fabio C.    + --- Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote:n3 > I've been doing a lot of searching to no avail; I  > hope I haven't0 > missed something obvious and posted a faq as a > result.  Nothing in thep2 > VMS FAQ, freeware lists, google searches, or the > various VMS software6 > sites I can get to (an abbreviated list today; can't > get to the > European sites at all).h >=207 > Is there available SNMP _client_ software for VMS?=20h > Either3 > graphical/Motif or CLI-based would be useful, and- > Alpha more useful24 > than VAX; I can deal with compiling source, but do > not have time (for1 > this requirement) to attempt porting one of the  > Linux/Unix packages.=20.6 > Similarly, I did see mention of various PERL modules > (though they seem 5 > to require underlying code that would probably need  > to be ported) buto6 > really don't have time to try and get up to speed on > Perl.e >=200 > Multinet, TCPware, and UCX/TCPIP all have SNMP > servers, but outside ofk6 > one mention of an old CMU-SNMP package that a poster > talked about inm4 > 1996 or so (and considered obsolete then), no word > at all on a client.r >=200 > Thanks in advance.  An email response would be > great, but I'll be5 > following up here as well (so you don't have to say  > 'ask here, get an  > answer here, Hoff; I know :) >=20
 > Rich Jordann     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DaL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.e http://phone.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:10:22 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?) Message-ID: <3BB3172E.B8D66163@127.0.0.1>c   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat fromF > CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD does' > and installs flawlessly, including X.   C At a "car boot" in the UK ("garage sale" in the US?) I saw a RedHataD _Alpha_ CD on sale, for UKP 15 ($23), box, manuals. However I wasn'tG prepared to part with that much cash for it. I didn't take any detailedwH notes of the version though, but it didn't look recent. I haven't a clue) if the guy selling even knew what it was.n  F FWIW, IBM have partnered with a number of linux distributors to ensureD deployment on their architectures, and they have a team dedicated toB providing code to the source pool in general. The distributers areC RedHat, SuSE and turbolinux. (Caldera is also listed, but they onlye7 support limited architecture from IBM's point of view).u -- p( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comc   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2001 13:11:40 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?, Message-ID: <9ov8ic$1075$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <3BB280D1.A6A3FC81@fsi.net>, 4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |>J |> I'd love to ... as soon as someone provides wireless broadband out hereH |> in the boonies (no cable internet, too far from teh CO so no DSL, tooK |> far from Sears tower and/or no line of sight for either Sprint BroadBandeI |> Direct or GL National, IOLS isn't here yet). Funny - the "frontier" ofr@ |> suburban sprawl is already a good 60 miles west of here; yet,, |> technologically, we're still in the Styx. |> e  A Are you saying that you can't try it because of how long it would @ take to get the ISO image??  If that's the case, I'll be glad toC burn you a CD and mail it to you.  Which would you like 4.4 (if the:D Alpha version is available yet) or 4.3 (which I have used already)??   Email me with a USPS address.1   bill   -- 0J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:29:05 +0000 (UTC)R From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?+ Message-ID: <9ov9j1$73k$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>o  T In article <3BB3172E.B8D66163@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >Bill Gunshannon wrote:sG >> Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat fromeG >> CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD doess( >> and installs flawlessly, including X. >hD >At a "car boot" in the UK ("garage sale" in the US?) I saw a RedHatE >_Alpha_ CD on sale, for UKP 15 ($23), box, manuals. However I wasn'tsH >prepared to part with that much cash for it. I didn't take any detailedI >notes of the version though, but it didn't look recent. I haven't a cluei* >if the guy selling even knew what it was. > G >FWIW, IBM have partnered with a number of linux distributors to ensureaE >deployment on their architectures, and they have a team dedicated toaC >providing code to the source pool in general. The distributers are D >RedHat, SuSE and turbolinux. (Caldera is also listed, but they only8 >support limited architecture from IBM's point of view). >-- ) >Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences  >nclews at csc dot com  > Linux versions for Alpha have been on sale in London for ages.J eg The PC Bookshop Holborne , London certainly stocks SUSE Linux for Alpha- and I think they also stock RedHat for Alpha.-K I've yet to come across any stores selling Linux distributions for anythingm other than Intel or Alpha.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:23:25 GMTa, From: peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson)* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?6 Message-ID: <3bb3282f.8338015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>  F On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:10:22 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Bill Gunshannon wrote:tG >> Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat fromeG >> CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD doesh( >> and installs flawlessly, including X. >tD >At a "car boot" in the UK ("garage sale" in the US?) I saw a RedHatE >_Alpha_ CD on sale, for UKP 15 ($23), box, manuals. However I wasn't2H >prepared to part with that much cash for it. I didn't take any detailedI >notes of the version though, but it didn't look recent. I haven't a cluea* >if the guy selling even knew what it was. >e       try ebay       Peter Watkinson  peterw@u.genie.co.uk http://www.pwnavigate.com/% http://www.windsurf-international.com- http://you.genie.co.uk/peterw/$ http://www.freerider-classifieds.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:48:48 -0500D. From: Duncan Brown <brown_du@eisner.decus.org>* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?0 Message-ID: <3BB32E40.20C1CDFA@eisner.decus.org>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 2 > In article <3BB12FC4.9EF82881@yahoo.commercial>,6 >  Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> writes: > |>! > |> You want commercial support?  > |> > |> http://www.redhat.com! > |> http://www.wasabisystems.com  > |>K > |> I realize the second one is NetBSD not Linux... But it boots Alpha and I > |> VAX right from the CDROM.... Among many other platforms. Support andt$ > |> development services available. > F > Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat fromF > CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD does' > and installs flawlessly, including X.a  D My 13-year-old son just installed Redhat 7.1 on an AlphaServer 4100,< surely you can't be having that much trouble, heh heh heh...  F I did have to help him puzzle out one problem, maybe it's the one thatE bit you: if you follow the instructions for a boot command at the SRMrC prompt, it kernel panics.  We finally decided maybe it was droppingkC everything on the command line after it wrapped at 80 columns (even F though SRM is happy to parse it, even going so far as to prompt him toG continue when he forgot the closing double-quotes!)  The workaround wasoF to actually set the boot_osflags parameter to what it needed to be forD the CD install, which allowed him to avoid typing the -flags and itsB parameters on the boot line, which brought it under 80 characters.  D (Just to keep this on-topic for the newsgroup, I'm of course running, hobbyist VMS on the other AlphaServer 4100!)   Duncan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:50:26 -0700-* From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com>* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?( Message-ID: <3BB32EA2.93D307E@yahoo.com>   Nic Clews wrote:   > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > > Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat fromH > > CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD does) > > and installs flawlessly, including X.e >nE > At a "car boot" in the UK ("garage sale" in the US?) I saw a RedHataF > _Alpha_ CD on sale, for UKP 15 ($23), box, manuals. However I wasn'tI > prepared to part with that much cash for it. I didn't take any detailed J > notes of the version though, but it didn't look recent. I haven't a clue+ > if the guy selling even knew what it was.a >f  C The Redhat for Alpha 7.0 that I got (free) from the Compaq booth atu
 LinuxWorldC (late August) booted and installed on my XP900 without any problem.n   JimS   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2001 15:17:40 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)l* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?, Message-ID: <9ovfuk$13fl$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  0 In article <3BB32E40.20C1CDFA@eisner.decus.org>,1  Duncan Brown <brown_du@eisner.decus.org> writes:m |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:h |> > t5 |> > In article <3BB12FC4.9EF82881@yahoo.commercial>,89 |> >  Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> writes:r |> > |>U$ |> > |> You want commercial support? |> > |>c |> > |> http://www.redhat.comd$ |> > |> http://www.wasabisystems.com |> > |>nN |> > |> I realize the second one is NetBSD not Linux... But it boots Alpha andL |> > |> VAX right from the CDROM.... Among many other platforms. Support and' |> > |> development services available.o |> >  I |> > Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat fromNI |> > CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD doesu* |> > and installs flawlessly, including X. |> aG |> My 13-year-old son just installed Redhat 7.1 on an AlphaServer 4100,e? |> surely you can't be having that much trouble, heh heh heh...A  F I didn't say it wouldn't install, I said it wouldn't install right outF of the box, something that the Alpha version of FreeBSD did.  The onlyG box I have available for testing it right now has to also run primarily-H VMS, so I am not likely to start changing SRM setting to make Linux run.H based on my experience in the x86 world, I would take FreeBSD over LinuxE anyway, so I am not likely to expend much effort on this at all.  ForeI those who do run Linux on Alpha and are curious, I have an AS2100 and the E problem seems to be with the SCSI.  Once the kernel starts to boot it-F starts printing SCSI timeout messages and does this forever. (Well, at least for as much as 10 hours.)R   |> nI |> I did have to help him puzzle out one problem, maybe it's the one that>H |> bit you: if you follow the instructions for a boot command at the SRMF |> prompt, it kernel panics.  We finally decided maybe it was droppingF |> everything on the command line after it wrapped at 80 columns (evenI |> though SRM is happy to parse it, even going so far as to prompt him toIJ |> continue when he forgot the closing double-quotes!)  The workaround wasI |> to actually set the boot_osflags parameter to what it needed to be foryG |> the CD install, which allowed him to avoid typing the -flags and itsrE |> parameters on the boot line, which brought it under 80 characters.u  C Don't think this is the problem, but if it were, it would be enoughcE to make it unusable as changing these flags would affect booting VMS.s- Not gonna happen.  Linux just isn't worth it.    |> lG |> (Just to keep this on-topic for the newsgroup, I'm of course runningm/ |> hobbyist VMS on the other AlphaServer 4100!)i  G Being a Unixoid from way back and a relatively recent (couple of years)-D VMS Sysadmin, I can honestly say if Linux were the only Unix I would
 only run VMS.e   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2001 15:21:25 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)b* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?, Message-ID: <9ovg5l$13fl$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ( In article <3BB32EA2.93D307E@yahoo.com>,-  James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:c |> |> hF |> The Redhat for Alpha 7.0 that I got (free) from the Compaq booth at
 |> LinuxWorldkF |> (late August) booted and installed on my XP900 without any problem. |>  F As I said in a previous message, I have an AS2100.  If I get a machineE freed up and a little time, I may try to force it to work.  But based H on my own personal experience, given a choice between FreeBSD and Linux,C I am not likely to expend much time or effort on making Linux work.t   bill   -- uJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:50:56 -0500e. From: Duncan Brown <brown_du@eisner.decus.org>* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?0 Message-ID: <3BB34AE0.46406375@eisner.decus.org>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 2 > In article <3BB32E40.20C1CDFA@eisner.decus.org>,3 >  Duncan Brown <brown_du@eisner.decus.org> writes:n > |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:h > |> >7 > |> > In article <3BB12FC4.9EF82881@yahoo.commercial>,a; > |> >  Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> writes:g	 > |> > |>u& > |> > |> You want commercial support?	 > |> > |>  > |> > |> http://www.redhat.comD& > |> > |> http://www.wasabisystems.com	 > |> > |>3P > |> > |> I realize the second one is NetBSD not Linux... But it boots Alpha andN > |> > |> VAX right from the CDROM.... Among many other platforms. Support and) > |> > |> development services available.  > |> >K > |> > Actually, I have yet to find any Linux CD (including the REDHat from@K > |> > CETS) that will boot right out of the box on my Alpha.  FreeBSD doesA, > |> > and installs flawlessly, including X. > |>I > |> My 13-year-old son just installed Redhat 7.1 on an AlphaServer 4100,oA > |> surely you can't be having that much trouble, heh heh heh...? > H > I didn't say it wouldn't install, I said it wouldn't install right outH > of the box, something that the Alpha version of FreeBSD did.  The onlyI > box I have available for testing it right now has to also run primarilysJ > VMS, so I am not likely to start changing SRM setting to make Linux run.  F Well, the boot_osflags setting is only required to make the CD installG routine run.  After that a normal boot command (worst case with "-flagseH 0") works fine for Linux, so you could set boot_osflags back to whatever makes VMS happy.  J > based on my experience in the x86 world, I would take FreeBSD over LinuxG > anyway, so I am not likely to expend much effort on this at all.  For-K > those who do run Linux on Alpha and are curious, I have an AS2100 and theaG > problem seems to be with the SCSI.  Once the kernel starts to boot itpH > starts printing SCSI timeout messages and does this forever. (Well, at! > least for as much as 10 hours.)t  D Is your controller a plain SCSI controller, or a RAID controller (egG SWXCR)?  There are some firmware issues to solve before you can use the H SWXCR under Linux.  (I have one, and haven't solved them yet, so we just9 used two RZ29s attached to a FW SCSI controller for now.)e  E > Don't think this is the problem, but if it were, it would be enoughtG > to make it unusable as changing these flags would affect booting VMS. / > Not gonna happen.  Linux just isn't worth it.   G Like I said, it's just a temporary workaround needed to get the installoF routine to run.  For all I know you could shorten some of the elementsD of the boot command enough to get it to fit in 80 columns some other way.  I > Being a Unixoid from way back and a relatively recent (couple of years)lF > VMS Sysadmin, I can honestly say if Linux were the only Unix I would > only run VMS.i  H VMS is the best O/S ever made, period.  I sure wish the whole world knew that.u  C I ran OSF/1...er Digital Unix on a bunch of 2100's and 4100's a few H years ago and I have to admit it was pretty darn good, for a Unix.  That AdvFS is like magic!  C My son can blunder his way around VMS because that's where he first @ learned how to write C programs.  But what would be the point ofF teaching him how to administer VMS?!  It won't exist for the most partD by the time he could use those skills in a career.  Now it seems theH same will be true of Tru64.  So Linux it is.  And from what I've seen ofG it so far it's not at all a bad personal O/S.  No idea if it's ready to;B take on the tasks I used to ask of Digital Unix (business-critical8 server stuff) but I could guess the answer is "not yet."   Duncan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:06:19 GMTB  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?8 Message-ID: <1hj6rt88i8mg9qag90b0bu10gf3knao261@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:28:49 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"t <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Funny - the "frontier" of> >suburban sprawl is already a good 60 miles west of here; yet,* >technologically, we're still in the Styx.   Wouldn't that get kinda wet?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:38:33 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: SuSE Linux Desupports ALPHA ?) Message-ID: <3BB35609.CD5A05DE@127.0.0.1>o   Peter Watkinson wrote: > F > >At a "car boot" in the UK ("garage sale" in the US?) I saw a RedHatG > >_Alpha_ CD on sale, for UKP 15 ($23), box, manuals. However I wasn't  > 
 > try ebay  F Oh, i like car boots. last weekend on a 'computer' stall, this guy hadC an ESS badged SCSI table top drive, I recall paying quite a lot fornH these third party devices for VMS boxes a few years ago. I like browsing through other peoples' junk. w  F Radio Rallies are great too. At a local one a few years back, I boughtH an RD51 for GBP 1 labelled a 'doorstop' because they couldn't figure outD what it was. Fits my PDP 11/23 just fine! I also saw a whole load of Rainbows, but I wasn't tempted.e  D I've picked up RRD42 caddies, DLT4's (again for a quid!), AUI to TP,A cables, all similar prices. The best bit is a mate of mine got an-F L4004-CF, 64 MB of VAX 4000 memory in a job lot of bits he paid just 2 GBP for!   -- d( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:20:00 +01008* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com># Subject: RE: VAX disaster tolerancevM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E3E3@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>n  J The machines in question control hardware which will never run faster thanL it does now. The suppliers of the control software do have new versions, butD they run on Windows NT. Rewriting our interface module wouldn't takeI particularly long, it would just be expensive, plus we don't want to movee. critical systems over to NT (Can't think why).J We requested a cost for porting everything to Alpha's instead, but as I've3 said, the cost was 'silly' compared to the benefit.CK The cost of having spare 3100-40's on the shelf is minimal - I bought a joba0 lot of 6 for 100 pounds, complete with licenses.   Andrew RobinsonS   -----Original Message-----: From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com] Sent: 25 September 2001 17:48n To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi# Subject: Re: VAX disaster toleranceo    E Your problem does not seem to be the cost to "port to Alpha", but the.G question is - what happens if something stops working?  Are you forever0D dependent on code that can't be reproduced?  That would make me very nervous.      $ Andrew Robinson wrote in message ...J >We use VAXes in a Business Critical environment - We can't modify some ofG >the legacy code without having to reinvent the wheel, due to a portioneI >having been written in-house without proper control over source code (We  are  >not unusual in that one!).FK >The cost of porting to Alpha's, when the licenses, programming & man hoursiJ >are involved, just aren't justifiable. We don't need the processing power ofK >Alpha's, so what is our motive to spend X amount for no business benefit ?c >  >Regards >n >Andrew Robinson >  >-----Original Message----- 6 >From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br] >Sent: 24 September 2001 13:56 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ >Subject: Re: VAX disaster tolerance >o >s/ >Using a "legacy"  platform as Mission Criticaly, >is not what we can say - a safe investment. >e. >It is why I ask people here why do they still >using VAXes...  >b. >In my opinion the upgrades should be the best >choice for these old systems. >I4 >How can I rebuild a cluster after a disaster if the1 >boards are not available anymore in the market ?e! >Why people still using PDPs ????i >o2 >It is a non responsable act inside the companies. >r >n >Regards >E >FCx >r ><SNIP>n   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:28:54 -0700 (PDT)s. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: Re: VAX disaster toleranceM@ Message-ID: <20010927112854.69840.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  4 What about "dont find your hardware anymore" after a/ disaster and your production will be stopped=20 2 beacuse th IT staff cant replace VAX or PDP parts.    ( It is a question of vision x investment.     Regards7   FC=20    --- Brian Tillmanl, <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:1 > >Using a "legacy"  platform as Mission Critical . > >is not what we can say - a safe investment. > >a0 > >It is why I ask people here why do they still > >using VAXes...i >=206 > How about "because the mission-critical apps we need > don't run on an AlphaU/ > or PC"?  How about "it would cost millions of1 > dollars to get the FAA tor6 > recertify the software we have if we were to port it > to another > architecture"? > --+ > Brian Tillman                   Internet:n > tillman_brian at si.comh6 > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at > swdev.si.com4 > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified > to prevent5 > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at"p
 > with "@"2 >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my	 > company- >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D8L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilG fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dc  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.m http://phone.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:57:47 +0100X% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?8 Message-ID: <6km5rt8d47k2uel8hku2unisoubg3pga31@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:50:10 GMT, rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edul (Rick Millhollin) wrote:   >lD >possibly best but is the most expensive.  I'll mention also that myE >SCS traffic is relatively light.  I gather from this discussion thatoF >relative  performance is (low -> high) CI, Gig, MC.  I'm not clear onD >how to judge relative CPU 0 loads.  Any additional words of wizdom?  > Others have said similar but  don't even consider MC unless anA extremely competent VMS cluster technical consultant reviews youriD configuration and then recommends it together with justification. ItE is a dead end technology and will be outperformed by Gigabit EthernetoA in almost all circumstances. As you say SCS traffic is relativelys0 light there seems no reason to even think of MC.  
 >Thanks...   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:34:55 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?) Message-ID: <3BB30EDF.7E315695@127.0.0.1>c   Bob Kaplow wrote:-I > Is any one currently running a production VMScluster using FibrechanneliJ > storage and memory channel interconnect? Has any one migrated from CI toJ > Fibrechannel / memory channel? Any advice from someone who has done this
 > already?  F I've read the thread so far and presume you are in posession of a copy= of Verrel's presentation comparing cluster interconnect speed A comparisons and the various recommendations being discussed here,o8 particularly around MC and other interconnect selection.  A I would say it is important that you understand what your clustertF traffic comprises. While it is true there is no (forseen) inprovementsF or developments to MC, it definitely has advantages over Gigibit, thatE it is HALF the latency and DOUBLE the throughput for locking traffic.tF CPU costs are slightly higher for Gigabit than MC for small amounts ofH locking, but reverse for higher locking traffic. Will this impact _your_ environment?  D It is very difficult to predict how the workload of a current system@ will behave on a new configuration. It is important to realise aF balance. SAN and fibrechannel storage is so very much faster, that theH old transfer diagram comparing the logical and physical delay is gettingB rewritten. While in an overall general scheduling mixed world, theF delays interleave, run concurrently, the overall processing behavoiourC can very easy change, the emphasis shifts, and a bottleneck appears C where you didn't expect it, or it is even created as a byproduct ofw# another performance characteristic.   H e.g. if your locking traffic is governed by the CI output rate, when theH SAN removes the brakes. that locking could be very significant, and whatD you could realise from the SAN may be limited because the latency ofH cluster traffic figures so highly in the operation, and end up with idleG CPU cycles which would not be significantly dented by an interconnects'l demands.  G OK I fully appreciate I'm talking a scenario that may not exist in youraE case, but in your position I would be trying to figure out what wouldhB happen if IO latency dropped to zero, CPU speed was 'infinite' andF memory was unlimited, make the considerations individually, then maybeC combine scenarios and try to figure out what may happen. It is alsoaC important to take into account the knock on effects, such as CPU0'sR> role, but with the ability to offload this work as others have; mentioned, the picture can change from what you may expect.i  E Gone are the days of just putting faster and bigger hardware in placeoG and expecting a uniform and 'linear' improvement overall. (If they everi even existed).  E Know your workload is the advice I'd give. At the beginning of this In@ describe it as a balancing act. We have been performing some SANG testing, and we had some very odd results where removing all the brakesoE under stress conditions actually impaired performance. The nearest we E have gotten to an explanation so far is that we lost the 'streaming',aA and the stop-start behaviour introduced by doing other things too0C quickly upset the balance. (We're talking to VMS engineering in the - appropriate areas so I won't expand it here).t  F Only you will know your workload Bob, correlate the whole picture. I'mH posing an alternate view for your consideration, I'm not prepared to say6 I'm right and others are wrong in what they have said. -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:47:18 -0400 * From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com>> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?* Message-ID: <3BB31FD6.3DBF556A@Compaq.com>  # That one would be fun to qualify...m   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > q > In article <fteh3dZegGg8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:ae > > In article <4phK+ha$Nnld@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: L > >>      Shame you can't stick a rack somewhere other than that datacenter.J > >>      If you could, you could easily and fairly cheaply create a faultG > >>      tolerant cluster (i.e. stay within a single mode fibre run of-I > >>      say 1500-3000 feet) and run MC over it.  Even though MC has itsi > >.K > > I'd love to do that. We do have 2 other data centers. One is 1727 mileseA > > away, the oher 1375. Juat a bit outside the cluster specs :-)9 > A > If DEQ gave you 1727 miles, you'd probably ask for the moon :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:05:58 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?8 Message-ID: <4o86rtc3tqsud2dqpl7aloq7kejshfsjok@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:34:55 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   > B >I would say it is important that you understand what your clusterG >traffic comprises. While it is true there is no (forseen) inprovements G >or developments to MC, it definitely has advantages over Gigibit, thateF >it is HALF the latency and DOUBLE the throughput for locking traffic.  C Can you recall (or have you investigated) if the locking throughput#D with multiple Gigabit Ethernet interfaces installed can be increased> beyond that of MC? I can't recall if that was discussed in the presentation or not.    G >Only you will know your workload Bob, correlate the whole picture. I'msI >posing an alternate view for your consideration, I'm not prepared to sayF7 >I'm right and others are wrong in what they have said.c   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 09:02:57 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?3 Message-ID: <mC4SwSpsii7l@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  ` In article <6km5rt8d47k2uel8hku2unisoubg3pga31@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:E > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:50:10 GMT, rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu  > (Rick Millhollin) wrote: >  >>E >>possibly best but is the most expensive.  I'll mention also that mybF >>SCS traffic is relatively light.  I gather from this discussion thatG >>relative  performance is (low -> high) CI, Gig, MC.  I'm not clear onyE >>how to judge relative CPU 0 loads.  Any additional words of wizdom?  > @ > Others have said similar but  don't even consider MC unless anC > extremely competent VMS cluster technical consultant reviews yourhF > configuration and then recommends it together with justification. ItG > is a dead end technology and will be outperformed by Gigabit EthernetiC > in almost all circumstances. As you say SCS traffic is relativelya2 > light there seems no reason to even think of MC. >   ; 	Plenty of reasons as I hinted to Bob and he concurred.  IfsD 	your network is not very robust or undergoing upgrade (cough cough C 	cough, again) you certainly don't want to rely on it.  You can do fE 	point to point MC.  You can also use fibre, single-mode, go quite a p9 	distance with that too and again no network involvement.k  > 	Snippet of conversation this morning:  "Did your systems have> 	a burp last night?"   "No - I say, why do you ask?"  "Because> 	xxxx department lost connectivity for 10 minutes last night."  D 	A few back and forths with me adding "a burp" isn't very technical,? 	tell me what you mean, etc... and trust me... always a mysteryo@ 	involved in these issues.  I like mysteries in hardback covers,
 	not at work.   " > don't even consider MC unless anC > extremely competent VMS cluster technical consultant reviews your.C > configuration and then recommends it together with justification.s  A 	Interesting.  There are some interesting back and forths in this ? 	forum... and this is one of the more interesting.  Of course ,uC 	folks that are and have been successfully running MC chime in.  I  A 	think you don't want to touch MC if you are doing massive SCS asm? 	Keith points out, you saturate the primary CPU.  Regarding MC,r+ 	Keith stated the other day to this thread:m  F "Considering that you have only two nodes at present, the odds of thisF being a problem are probably actually fairly small.  If you don't haveD CPU 0 saturation problems (as is the case in many smaller clusters),D MC can work very well, with lock latencies 1/4 that of CI, and about* 1/2 that of using a LAN for lock traffic."  = 	So it isn't just a point to point benefit but also a latency' 	benefit.  I like MC.    				Robd   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:51:04 +0100s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?8 Message-ID: <mke6rto5rvj9uhndmr5t4quunq5mg3v05s@4ax.com>  D On 27 Sep 2001 09:02:57 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  < >	Plenty of reasons as I hinted to Bob and he concurred.  If  B I wasn't talking about Bob's requirements though. My comment was aF follow-up to Rick with light lock traffic. I was quite explicit in not* addressing the comment to Bob's situation.  F >	your network is not very robust or undergoing upgrade (cough cough  D >	cough, again) you certainly don't want to rely on it.  You can do F >	point to point MC.  You can also use fibre, single-mode, go quite a   E Err, you can do point to point GE and I would strongly agree that youSE don't run heavy cluster traffic over the corporate ethernet backbone!r  B >	Interesting.  There are some interesting back and forths in this@ >	forum... and this is one of the more interesting.  Of course ,D >	folks that are and have been successfully running MC chime in.  I B >	think you don't want to touch MC if you are doing massive SCS as@ >	Keith points out, you saturate the primary CPU.  Regarding MC,, >	Keith stated the other day to this thread:  C If you already have MC in-house then stick with it but if you don'tnD then I doubt it should be recommended for new installations - unlessF you *really* need it. My feeling is that it may not have a long active. life in front of it  - if for no other reason.   >SG >"Considering that you have only two nodes at present, the odds of thisrG >being a problem are probably actually fairly small.  If you don't havetE >CPU 0 saturation problems (as is the case in many smaller clusters),eE >MC can work very well, with lock latencies 1/4 that of CI, and about + >1/2 that of using a LAN for lock traffic."y >P> >	So it isn't just a point to point benefit but also a latency >	benefit.  I like MC. >e >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:44:37 +0100b( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>> Subject: Re: VMScluster using fibrechannel and memory channel?) Message-ID: <3BB34965.C72F2E5E@127.0.0.1>e   Alan Greig wrote:  > H > On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:34:55 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >  > >nD > >I would say it is important that you understand what your clusterI > >traffic comprises. While it is true there is no (forseen) inprovementsgI > >or developments to MC, it definitely has advantages over Gigibit, thatsH > >it is HALF the latency and DOUBLE the throughput for locking traffic. > E > Can you recall (or have you investigated) if the locking throughput'F > with multiple Gigabit Ethernet interfaces installed can be increased@ > beyond that of MC? I can't recall if that was discussed in the > presentation or not.  F My comparison  of the Gigabit vs. MC was taken from Verell's slides. IG don't recall either if it was mentioned. However VMS is evolving around E the performance issue of cluster communications (MSCP vs QIO, lockingc@ messaging, others) so I think his slides should be regarded as aC snapshot which may change for future versions. I wonder is multipler? gigabits will help, if they are switched by one switch. I don'te% personally know enough about gigabit.  -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:49:46 -0700c; From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com>  Subject: VT emulation on Linux5 Message-ID: <3BB32E7A.AEBF2558@digitalsynergyinc.com>-  E Has anyone found a good (and free) VT emulation for Linux? The best I  have been ableF to find is Eterm but it has some bugs in switching between numeric and application 
 keypad modes.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:47:03 +0100g% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s4 Subject: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?8 Message-ID: <pe06rto1gvi88n7bucir0vnfts3f4l1qml@4ax.com>  D According to the Inquirer a Compaq internal document states that theA ES45 will come with a one year warranty instead of the three yearyB warranty provided with the ES40. Anyone confirm or deny this? DoesF Compaq have an employee specifically tasked to dream up ways of making: their products seem more PC like and less Enterprise like?  D Most commercial users probably uplift the warranty to 4 hour supportD anyway and end-users who don't probably take the three year warrantyD into account in purchasing decisions - I know this is often the case  for educational use for example.  C Here's what The Inquirer claims Compaq say about the ES45 warranty:o' http://www.theinquirer.net/27090101.htm   D "Warranty for the AlphaServer ES45 is 1/1/1, which includes one yearE parts and labor with on-site Next Business Day (NBD) response 8:00 AMaA  5:00 PM, M-F. Please note this is a change from the previous ESo' family warranty of 3/3/3 for the ES40."4   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:15:52 -0400a- From: "www.islandco.com" <sales@islandco.com>28 Subject: Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?/ Message-ID: <tr6jjt9j9a1736@news.supernews.com>e   Well  / We're getting better and better every day huh??o   Alan  L It's time to start lookin gover here for hardware - Compaq is trying to makeL you purchase a maintenance contract for the system anyway - so buy an unused or refurbished system instead.   David   2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:pe06rto1gvi88n7bucir0vnfts3f4l1qml@4ax.com... >uF > According to the Inquirer a Compaq internal document states that theC > ES45 will come with a one year warranty instead of the three year D > warranty provided with the ES40. Anyone confirm or deny this? DoesH > Compaq have an employee specifically tasked to dream up ways of making< > their products seem more PC like and less Enterprise like? >pF > Most commercial users probably uplift the warranty to 4 hour supportF > anyway and end-users who don't probably take the three year warrantyF > into account in purchasing decisions - I know this is often the case" > for educational use for example. > E > Here's what The Inquirer claims Compaq say about the ES45 warranty:B) > http://www.theinquirer.net/27090101.htm= >3F > "Warranty for the AlphaServer ES45 is 1/1/1, which includes one yearG > parts and labor with on-site Next Business Day (NBD) response 8:00 AMnC > - 5:00 PM, M-F. Please note this is a change from the previous ESm) > family warranty of 3/3/3 for the ES40."  >, > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:16:42 -0500s- From: "Terry Harris" <tharri11@bellsouth.net>s( Subject: Re: Watching the cookie crumble, Message-ID: <9ovhi001lqa@enews1.newsguy.com>  E In a report I saw one analyst likened the deal to "two drunks leaningsL against each other in a attempt to remain vertical".  Its been a while sinceL I saw the article so the quote may be more of a paraphrase, but that was the jist.   4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3BAA31CE.A5F081D8@caltech.edu...aE > HP and Compaq stock prices have been collapsing at an alarming rate I > since the merger was announced.  Compaq was trading under $8/share whenyD > I last looked.  It's a sick metaphor, and it's not exact, but it'sJ > almost as if these two pillars of the computer industry are somehow likeG > the two towers of the WTC.   I can't get the image of "HP" painted onhJ > one,  "Compaq" painted on the other, out of my head.  The collapse won'tG > be quite so complete, and  mercifully nobody's going to die, but veryrJ > nearly the same number of people will be displaced.  Meanwhile Carly andD > Curly are yacking up a storm of unsupported positive spin, tellingJ > everybody everywhere that everything will be alright.  More or less likeJ > the poor misguided (and probably deceased) soul who went on the intercomI > and told the fleeing workers to return to their offices.   While CompaqmH > and HP weren't blown up by terrorists, being sunk by bad management is. > still a rotten thing to happen to a company. >sG > How low can they go?  When Compaq gets down to $5/share do the boardsu" > finally give up this folly, sackJ > their CEOs, and try something that makes sense?  If HP gets down too farH > does somebody buy them,  tear out the profitable printer business, andJ > flush the rest of it?  Ditto for Compaq with regard to Tandem and maybe,J > VMS?  Or is it the express elevator all the way to the basement for both > companies? >o
 > Regards, >i > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu >e >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:09:08 +1200k# From: Kevin Waugh <waugh@met.co.nz> * Subject: Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problems( Message-ID: <3BB2D094.8090100@met.co.nz>  
 Kat wrote:   > Hello, > K > Have a ESL9326 -- and getting the robot working automated with MRU/robot sC > is not proving fun or easy.  I have seen this error but found no cA > answers. No matter what I set the GK device to (we have 3 SCSI nD > interfaces active, but moving to FCTC later) they come up as "not 
 > responding"o > K > The silo works manually of course, and the tape library has been working pK > for months. No one ever configured the robot for acfess through vms.  On   > 3 machines I have: >  > mkb100, mkb200 > mkc100, mkc200 > mkc300, mkc400 >  > respectiively. > H > I have tried on all systems -- gkb101, gkc101 and gkc301 and no luck.. >  > Any ideas? >  > thanks > Katm > Z I remember having trouble getting the robot software to work with our TLK891 mini library.     The documentation was wrong.  @ Tape device MKC400 the docs said to use GKC400 for robot device.   We had to use GKC0 Here is the startup command.      $ !! ROBOT$STARTUP.COM;1 $ !!= $ !! Robotic tlk891 for tape drive mkc400: using gkc0 insteadi $ !! $ !y $ NEW_PRIVS = F$SETPRV("ALL") 7 $ mc sysman io connect gkc0:/driver=sys$gkdriver/noadapi! $ NEW_PRIVS = F$SETPRV(NEW_PRIVS)n $ exit     Hope this helps. Kevin.   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2001 08:42:31 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)y* Subject: Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problems/ Message-ID: <9ouopn$10$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>e  
 Kat wrote:K > Have a ESL9326 -- and getting the robot working automated with MRU/robot nC > is not proving fun or easy.  I have seen this error but found no iA > answers. No matter what I set the GK device to (we have 3 SCSI nD > interfaces active, but moving to FCTC later) they come up as "not 
 > responding"n > K > The silo works manually of course, and the tape library has been working cK > for months. No one ever configured the robot for acfess through vms.  On x > 3 machines I have: >  > mkb100, mkb200 > mkc100, mkc200 > mkc300, mkc400 >  > respectiively. > H > I have tried on all systems -- gkb101, gkc101 and gkc301 and no luck.. >  > Any ideas?  N Most likely the robot has its own SCSI-address. You need to create a GK deviceL for the robot. In case the robot has its own address the GK device is GKxy00M where x is the SCSI-bus (A, B or C in your case) and y is the SCSI-address ofiK the robot. In rare cases the robot uses the same address as the drive but a L different logical unit number (LUN). Only in this case something like GKB101D will be correct. This example means SCSI bus B, SCSI-ID 1 and LUN 1.; In order to diagnose your problem more specifically tell us5( - how many drives does your library have - how many robotsr5 - how is it physically connected (via SCSI I assume?)e   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:56:31 -0600 (MDT)1" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>* Subject: Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problemsF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0109270633170.5324-100000@athena.csdco.com>   Kat,  I The below is based on an ATL P2000 (Compaq ESL9198SL) which I believe hasn similar connectivity.n  F Unlike the small (TZ887) libraries, the robot has its own address, and% is not the tape drive address plus 1.s  H Use the operator control panel to see what the SCSI address of the robotG is or set it as you want.  Make sure that the SCSI cable for one of thedI drives is connected to the robot which has a separate set of ports on theeG library I/O bulkhead.  The SCSI interface card on the robot's backplaneeH may have a terminator on it, so put it at the end of the chain or remove that internal terminator.e  K Then  $ MCR SYSMAN IO CONNECT GKannn:/DRIVER=SYS$GKDRIVER/NOADAPTER        i  D Setting the logical mru_robot /sys /exe in systartup_vms.com  helps.  
 John Nebel   On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Kat wrote:a   > Hello, > N > Have a ESL9326 -- and getting the robot working automated with MRU/robot is L > not proving fun or easy.  I have seen this error but found no answers. No L > matter what I set the GK device to (we have 3 SCSI interfaces active, but 8 > moving to FCTC later) they come up as "not responding" > K > The silo works manually of course, and the tape library has been working aM > for months. No one ever configured the robot for acfess through vms.  On 3   > machines I have: >  > mkb100, mkb200 > mkc100, mkc200 > mkc300, mkc400 >  > respectiively. > H > I have tried on all systems -- gkb101, gkc101 and gkc301 and no luck.. >  > Any ideas? >  > thanks > Katy >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:04:20 GMTl' From: Steve Thompson <smt@twcny.rr.com>s* Subject: Re: weird MRU/scsi robot problemsI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109271002310.1660-100000@ibmbox.vgersoft.com>.  & On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, John Nebel wrote:   > [...] E > Then  $ MCR SYSMAN IO CONNECT GKannn:/DRIVER=SYS$GKDRIVER/NOADAPTERn >MF > Setting the logical mru_robot /sys /exe in systartup_vms.com  helps.  J I just wanted to point out that apparently you should not define MRU_ROBOTI (or any other MRU_xxx logical name) in this way if you use ABS with MDMS. J This is from the MDMS 3.0B release notes. I don't know what happens if youJ do have it defined; I did, and nothing bad seemed to happen (well, nothing! out of the ordinary, anyway :-)).t   Steveg   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:46:45 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>Y/ Subject: Re: Whose Running The Oldest Software? 9 Message-ID: <ZnDs7.9409$%r.2767375@news20.bellglobal.com>   F Prior to the Y2K thing, I was asked to upgrade VMS on two systems in aJ sister department so they could install the Y2K patches for VMS-5.5-2. TwoI nodes in one VAX Cluster was sitting at VMS-5.2 (and had been up for overeI 800 days) while another stand-alone system was sitting at VMS-5.4 and hadt been up for over 600 days).   F p.s. this group is notoriously cheap (they don't install upgrades) andI paranoid (they flipped out when I suggested upgrading to VMS-6.2 just fors< more stability) but their 800 day up time speaks for itself.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,s Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/d  E "Jonathan McCormack" <McCormackJ@BelfastCity.Gov.UK> wrote in messagec news:1103_1001327759@itgs17...H > We had a full systems shutdown over the weekend to get some electricalG work done on the Server floor.  While shutting down our systems we came 
 across an old.K > VaxStation 4000 VLC that we had forgotten about.  It is used basically tog4 run and compile some legacy software that we supply. >s > It is running....  >b > VMS V5.5-1 > CMU IP V6.6-5  > DCPS V1.0e > COBOL V5.2 > PATHWORKS V4.2-1 >eB > All old stuff, but it was up for 482 days and does the job well. >n3 > So, is anybody running older software than me? :)A >o > Jonathan McCormack5 > Educational Bodies Senior Technical Support Analyste > Belfast City Council ISB# > http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/isb- >-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:18:46 -0400i' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: World Trade Center ( Message-ID: <9ouna0$a5p$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagee& news:3BB1448B.2010100@tsoft-inc.com...   ...y  H > I have sympathy for the plight of these Afgans.  However, their flightG > was not caused by any military or terrorist act of the US Government.gF > No where will you find any mention by the government of any proposedG > action against innocent afgan citizens.  Maybe they fled because theydD > expected the US to do what they would do if the balance of nuclearH > weapons was reversed.  In that scenario, who's showing more restraint? >gB > Get off this topic Bill, it was not caused by the US government.   Utter bullshit.o  L If I load a shotgun, point it at you, and say I'm going to shoot because I'mJ damn mad and there are people standing near you I suspect may be to blame,6 then it's *not* my fault if you get hurt running away?  G Let's take a different example that you may see in a somewhat different J light.  A terrorist plants a bomb in a large, public building, and 'phonesJ in a warning to the Mayor's office that it's set to explode in 30 minutes.K Or maybe just *says* he's planted a bomb.  An emergency evacuation of largeoG public buildings in the city ensues.  People are injured, possibly somen seriously.  Who's at fault?y  B We've made very explicit and irresponsible threats (major militaryG build-ups, lots of talk of war, 'infinite' justice until even the hawkssI realized how sickening that phrase was, specific references to 'countrieslI that harbor terrorists' rather than the far more exacting 'countries that K *support* terrorists', specific discussions of the military difficulties oftD Afghanistan).  People are acting on our obvious ability and apparentJ enthusiasm to carry those threats out.  We're at fault for what happens toK that vast majority of them who are innocent of any connection to the attackeE but still have very legitimate reason to fear our threatened actions..   >  >jF > > And, of course, fanning the flames domestically has contributed to creatingI > > an environment in which U.S. Arabs now live in fear, a growing number: haveD > > actually had their persons, businesses, and/or places of worship	 attacked,iK > > and at least two, including one person (a Sikh) who just *looked* a bitt like > > an Arab, have been killed. >t > H > These actions are very sad, and not supported by the US government, orH > US citizens.  A few radical elements exist in the US also, in case youG > weren't aware of that fact.  Had a KKK rally at the county courthouseuJ > this summer.  Ever been to one of those Bill.  Kind of makes the rest of( > us look more reasonable by comparison.  K Not lately it doesn't.  And instead of taking steps to limit the generality G of the radical sentiments to those actually involved in the attack, theeL government fanned them with war hysteria and expanded them to include anyone3 and everyone with even a suspicion of a connection.)  L Change the cast of characters to one that did not include the government andL it wouldn't take that aggressive a prosecutor to start looking at charges of criminal irresponsibility.   >l >kK > > Dubya's 'domestic rhetoric' (and that of his Cold Warrior re-treads) isc@ > > morally reprehensible and possibly criminally irresponsible. >2 >eI > How far will we need to extend the left field fence to get you into thei
 > stadium?  L You think this is a fucking game?  I don't give a shit where the stadium is, but I know where *I* am.   ...a   > When the government H > doesn't fall to your low expectations, you seem incapable of accepting > that seeming fact.  J The government already fell significantly below my low expectations.  It'sK now starting to seem to be making at least some efforts to climb out of thesG hole it jumped into so enthusiastically.  While that's better than somer6 scenarios, it hardly excuses the initial incompetence.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:48:30 -0400r' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>r Subject: Re: World Trade Centern( Message-ID: <9oup1q$b8n$1@pyrite.mv.net>  6 "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com> wrote in message% news:9oqs7k$2rd$1@bob.news.rcn.net...l   ...e  H > I never once heard the Administration say we were going to war againstD > Afghanistan. We were always going to war against terrorists. WhichD > terrorists wasn't clearly communicated at first, but it was alwaysG > terrorists. Remember that in his first remarks about 911 he said thata0 > America had been attacked by faceless cowards?  5 You apparently haven't been listening very carefully.h  B Indeed, Dubya's first reaction was (appropriately) to go after theK terrorists responsible for the attack and 'bring them to justice'.  After a G couple of days, this expanded into a 'war on terrorism' in general, andEF either at the same time or shortly thereafter expanded also to includeK 'those countries that harbor terrorists' (a considerably fuzzier definitioncL than 'those governments that support terrorists', which would have generated' far less fear and far wider agreement).e  J The most recent excess was the public statement (IIRC in his CongressionalI appearance) to the countries of the world that "Either you're with us, orn@ you're with the terrorists" - which not only is a megalomaniacalJ proclamation of American righteousness to the exclusion of any other pointH of view on how to deal with terrorism but in the context of the previousL statements pretty strongly suggests the sentiment "Support what we're doing,C whatever that may be, or we'll come after you as we go after them."i   ...h  F > The Press don't seem very pleased with the restrictions they've been under.L > And someone today actually asked Rumsfeld whether the DOD would lie to the9 > Press. I don't think we're "using" the media very much.u  H I don't claim to have information from inside the head of the person whoI asked Rumsfeld that question, but my impression was that it may well haveIB indicated that the press *already* felt manipulated by the initialF statements that so strongly suggested an imminent and massive military< strike and the subsequent major back-off from that position.   ...   0 > At the very least we're going to clean out theJ > training camps in Afghanistan and assure ourselves that bin Laden reallyH > isn't there. Also, during the time we're in there (after defeating theL > Taliban), we'll probably be able to get some good intellegence from people* > who are no longer afraid of the Taliban. >0H > I also suspect that the Taliban is stupid enough to fight, which means) > they're going to be massively defeated.l  L Please explain how you reconcile the above statements with the first of yourL paragraphs I quoted above.  I've never heard any assertions that the TalibanK themselves were terrorists or indeed interested in much of anything outside J Afghanistan - but here you talk about fighting and defeating them.  To theK extent that Afghanistan has a government, it's the Taliban, so if you go tovK war with them, it's difficult to avoid going to war with Afghanistan.  ThatmJ will not only generate at least some external support for their governmentJ but seems likely to consolidate internal support from the dominant portionF of the Afghan population that seems otherwise to be pretty apolitical,I because if the world has learned anything about Afghanistan over the lasttE century or so it's that they really, really don't like to be invaded.l  K I don't like a lot of what I've read about the Taliban, but doing somethingdG about them does not fall under the range of reasonable responses to therJ WTC/Pentagon attack unless they make themselves impossible to avoid.  ThatB means that we must go beyond 'non-negotiable demands' (which, withG characteristic arrogance, included some, such as release of all foreignuK prisoners, that had *absolutely no* connection with the 'war on terrorism'),J that we refuse to 'discuss', and if diplomacy fails then build a coalitionJ (rather than bully some countries into nominal support) to perform a truly international 'police' action.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:24:53 -0400r+ From: "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com>f Subject: Re: World Trade Centerl+ Message-ID: <9ov5s0$ecv$1@bob.news.rcn.net>g  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9oup1q$b8n$1@pyrite.mv.net... >o8 > "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com> wrote in message' > news:9oqs7k$2rd$1@bob.news.rcn.net...- >-  <snip>-2 > > At the very least we're going to clean out theL > > training camps in Afghanistan and assure ourselves that bin Laden reallyJ > > isn't there. Also, during the time we're in there (after defeating theG > > Taliban), we'll probably be able to get some good intellegence froms people, > > who are no longer afraid of the Taliban. > > J > > I also suspect that the Taliban is stupid enough to fight, which means+ > > they're going to be massively defeated.a >)I > Please explain how you reconcile the above statements with the first ofu yourF > paragraphs I quoted above.  I've never heard any assertions that the TalibanrE > themselves were terrorists or indeed interested in much of anything  outside L > Afghanistan - but here you talk about fighting and defeating them.  To theJ > extent that Afghanistan has a government, it's the Taliban, so if you go toG > war with them, it's difficult to avoid going to war with Afghanistan.t ThatL > will not only generate at least some external support for their governmentL > but seems likely to consolidate internal support from the dominant portionH > of the Afghan population that seems otherwise to be pretty apolitical,K > because if the world has learned anything about Afghanistan over the lastRG > century or so it's that they really, really don't like to be invaded.n  G The Taliban, not the Afghan people are harboring terrorists. Therefore,eL we're going to go after the Taliban. We're not going to start bombing random villages, though..  K Afghanistan does not have a government - they have a gang of thugs. KillinggK the members of this gang will not constitute a war against Afghanistan, and ) certainly, not against the Afghan people.h  F Besides, war is stressful. Those stresses might very well fracture theG Taliban along stress lines already established by the divisions amongstI them.n  C > I don't like a lot of what I've read about the Taliban, but doingp	 something I > about them does not fall under the range of reasonable responses to thegF > WTC/Pentagon attack unless they make themselves impossible to avoid.  F I agree. But I conditioned my remark on the idea that they are "stupid9 enough to fight". Those who don't fight, we won't attack.    > ThatD > means that we must go beyond 'non-negotiable demands' (which, withI > characteristic arrogance, included some, such as release of all foreign A > prisoners, that had *absolutely no* connection with the 'war oni terrorism')rL > that we refuse to 'discuss', and if diplomacy fails then build a coalitionL > (rather than bully some countries into nominal support) to perform a truly  > international 'police' action.  J I agree that the "foreign prisoners" have nothing to do with terrorism. OnK the other hand, if their trial continues, they're likely to be found guiltyi? and expelled anyway. That would be an easy out for the Taliban.   G As to non-negotiable terms, I agree with that. We want them to focus onaL doing what they were told to do, and not on weaselling out of it. We've toldK them clearly what they have to do, and given them time to figure out how to-H get it done. They're welcome to quibble with us over how to get it done. --
 John Saunders  jws@ma.ultranet.com    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2001 12:35:57 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: World Trade Centerm+ Message-ID: <9ov6fd$urs$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>-  ' In article <3BB27FA9.4A7A4A9A@fsi.net>,e4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> <I |> There was a report on the business news as I was driving home from thePB |> train today. Seems some folks traded heavily before the attack,I |> positioning themselves to profit from drops in airline stocks. However H |> much they may say they hate capitalism, they sure seem to embrace itsH |> benefits, if there's even a shred of truth to the implications of the |> reported findings.t |>    D If you can, find either a recording or a transcript of the interviewB with Walter Cronkite that aired at half-time of this past Monday'sE football game. (At least it aired ont he station I was listening to.)eA He seems to be of the opinion that this has a lot more to do withoE economics than religion.  An opinion I strongly share.  Religion justmF makes an excellent smokescreen, helps make you look rightous and makes8 it easy to find fanatical suckers to do your dirty work.   bill   -- vJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:29:01 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>o Subject: re: World Trade Centera7 Message-ID: <00A02AE9.371CEAB7.32@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    > > M > > But even leaving that aside, it's already been sufficiently disturbing tosN > > frighten millions of Afghans to the point that something like a million ofM > > them, ranging from very young to very old, have taken off for the borders N > > (which they may or may not know are nominally closed) with only that whichI > > they can carry or, for the more fortunate ones, stuff into a vehicle.@ > > K > > Afghanistan has some pretty rough country.  If 'only' a bit under 1% of.J > > those people die as a result of our rhetoric, it will have killed moreO > > innocent people than were killed two weeks ago - before we've actively doneG > > a damn thing.  >  > I > I have sympathy for the plight of these Afgans.  However, their flight tH > was not caused by any military or terrorist act of the US Government. G > No where will you find any mention by the government of any proposed hH > action against innocent afgan citizens.  Maybe they fled because they E > expected the US to do what they would do if the balance of nuclear iH > weapons was reversed.  In that scenario, who's showing more restraint? > B > Get off this topic Bill, it was not caused by the US government. >   J Though I mostly agree with what Bill says, I have to agree with the above.@ The humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan is created by nature, and made far worse by the Taliban. e  H Many ordinary Afghans are starving, and until recently were supported byD international relief agencies within their own country. Of late, theD Taliban have thrown those agencies out of the country, claiming thatG they are working as spies for the USA, and they *claim* that the people.I are fleeing the country in fear of the USA. Our media have fallen for it.d  C Consider: those people did not flee the Russians, whose bombardmenteL of Afghanistan was about as intensive as anything we might concievably throwE at them, also less accurate and less disciplined. Back then, they hadrE a country they were proud of and food to eat. They beat the Russians, B and the British before them, and many other invaders before them.   C In reality, they are fleeing *starvation*, towards the neighbouring J countries and borders where the relief agencies may still be able to help.E That starvation is primarily a natural disaster, and their government H does not allow them access to the aid that the rest of the world offers.  + Now a real shocker that I only just learnt..  M Vines have some of the deepest roots of any plants, and if vines are grown indJ an area they raise the water table and make the cultivation of other crops
 possible.   F Afghanistan was until recently a country full of vinyards. (Grapes forB eating, not wine-making, of course). But prohibiting the making ofF wine wasn't good enough for the Taliban. They have cut down and burned' the vinyards wherever they found them. o  F And the water table has fallen, and the people are starving. It is notL wholly a natural disaster. It is (unintentionally?) inflicted by the Taliban on the people of Afghanistan.    Nigel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:59:38 -0700 * From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: World Trade Centero) Message-ID: <3BB330CA.722630AB@yahoo.com>e   Paul Repacholi wrote:   / > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  >dK > >       And to describe George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, DonaldnK > >       Rumsfield , The Senate 96-0 and Congress 420-1 as "simple minded"n> > >       pretty much sums up things.  How about that, 520+ ofP > >       our leadership on one side and Bill Todd and that lady from California > >       on the other side. >n8 > No brainer win to the good lady, and Bill from here... >t  I That lady if Barbara Lee from the 9th district that includes Berkeley andeC Oakland California.  And I'm damned proud to be represented by her..   Jimr   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 08:31:38 -0700& From: dorrt@sutterhealth.org (tr dorr)0 Subject: ZIP for VMS for a file 5 million blocks< Message-ID: <59b7bbb8.0109270731.b7e3686@posting.google.com>  O I am trying to ZIP a file that is 5 million blocks in size and receive an error'9 shown below. When ziping smaller files, no error results.t* Is there a limit to size of files for ZIP?L The version of ZIP is Zip 2.0 (Sept 7th 1993). Perhaps a more recent version would handle 5 million blocks?F Has anyone experienced this type of problem with ZIP and a large file?    Total of 1 file, 5590620 blocks.2 PROD1>zip -j 20010524_4654.zip 20010524_4654.BCK;1   adding: 20010524_4654.bckP& zip warning: no such file or directoryP zip warning: could not open for reading: DKB100:[000000.EDI_ARCHIVE]20010524_465 4.BCK;1h zip warning: zip file emptya   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:00:32 +0100e7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com>n4 Subject: RE: ZIP for VMS for a file 5 million blocks= Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE01529080@REAES2>w  F I think you are out of luck. I would recommend as a good read. I would recommend../  , http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/FAQ.html  3 In particular, your problem is described in faq 22.   E It describes the file size limitations. Not good news for you though.    -John        -----Original Message-----< From: dorrt@sutterhealth.org [mailto:dorrt@sutterhealth.org] Sent: 27 September 2001 16:32  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComK0 Subject: ZIP for VMS for a file 5 million blocks    I I am trying to ZIP a file that is 5 million blocks in size and receive ana error 9 shown below. When ziping smaller files, no error results.k* Is there a limit to size of files for ZIP?L The version of ZIP is Zip 2.0 (Sept 7th 1993). Perhaps a more recent version would handle 5 million blocks?F Has anyone experienced this type of problem with ZIP and a large file?    Total of 1 file, 5590620 blocks.2 PROD1>zip -j 20010524_4654.zip 20010524_4654.BCK;1   adding: 20010524_4654.bck & zip warning: no such file or directory( zip warning: could not open for reading:' DKB100:[000000.EDI_ARCHIVE]20010524_465c 4.BCK;1a zip warning: zip file emptyd    K ___________________________________________________________________________ B This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of e SchlumbergerSema. M If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thisiI email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or i- copying of this email is strictly prohibited.t  z If you have received this email in error please notify the SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.K ___________________________________________________________________________-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:12:55 GMTb/ From: "David J. Wilson" <davidjwilson@home.com>nE Subject: Re: {HP,Compaq} user groups (was Re: CETS2001 presentations)m( Message-ID: <3BB2D16B.91C2BD9E@home.com>   Greg Cagle wrote:n  F > Regarding the future of DECUS and Interex, I believe discussions are@ > being held, but that's about all I know. I myself believe thatG > preserving this type of conference is critical to serving the members,* > of whatever organization we end up with.  ? 	As Interex, Encompass and the other related groups are all nownD independent of their vendors, I think it's imperative that we take a very= proactive approach and decide what *we* want as a user group.l  E 	Then we need to be much more "in-Mike's-face" about the relationship C with the new corporation, rather than just waiting to find out whatt Carly is going tol
 do with us...a     -- e David J. Wilsont$ Canadian Association of Compaq Users davidjwilson@home.comb   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2001 02:40:29 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eE Subject: Re: {HP,Compaq} user groups (was Re: CETS2001 presentations) 3 Message-ID: <OxFriNVF4ChN@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  Z In article <3BB2D16B.91C2BD9E@home.com>, "David J. Wilson" <davidjwilson@home.com> writes:  A > 	As Interex, Encompass and the other related groups are all now F > independent of their vendors, I think it's imperative that we take a > very? > proactive approach and decide what *we* want as a user group.p  9 Unlike (US) DECUS, TUG seems to have (some) working SIGs.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:49:38 -0700 ( From: "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com>E Subject: Re: {HP,Compaq} user groups (was Re: CETS2001 presentations)l/ Message-ID: <tr6bji97hd9qf3@corp.supernews.com>e  h "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message news:OxFriNVF4ChN@eisner.encompasserve.org...\ > In article <3BB2D16B.91C2BD9E@home.com>, "David J. Wilson" <davidjwilson@home.com> writes: >lB > > As Interex, Encompass and the other related groups are all nowH > > independent of their vendors, I think it's imperative that we take a > > veryA > > proactive approach and decide what *we* want as a user group.  >t; > Unlike (US) DECUS, TUG seems to have (some) working SIGs.s   As does Interex.   --
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.538 ************************