1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 28 Sep 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 540       Contents: Re: CETS2001 presentations Re: FTP over SSH on VMS  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  Re: Good bye VAX-6400's  HPaq Announces HP-UX Layoffs
 Re: Legato& Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy& Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy& Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy" Re: New company to be called "HP".# Starting DECwindows on DEC 3000-600  Thanks Re: VMS V7.2-2 vs V7.3/ Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1? / Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1? / Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1? / Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1? / Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2001 12:32:17 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) # Subject: Re: CETS2001 presentations 3 Message-ID: <fqlaYgVDtRZ3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <lOHs7.935$jW2.64184@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes: M > There is no longer a session note CD-ROM being produced.  Unlike the CD-ROM K > the sessions are now available a few days after the Symposium rather than  > weeks after the Symposium...  J Then may I suggest one be made. I've kept a stack of them in my desk, evenJ for the symposia I didn't get to go to. ANd when they came otu, I reviewedK the, for interesting material. As I said before, I had no problem geting my G company to pay the eighty-something bucks that DECUS used to charge for  these disks.  - There was a CD for CETS-2000, wasn't there???   K Sure, having them on the web for attendees is convenient. But are you going @ to keep them there forever? And make them available to everyone?  H If you provide me with a way of ordering one, for some reasonalbe price,/ I'll have the purchase order in the mail TODAY.   G The alternate is unreasonable, but is what I'm doing right now with the J DFWCUG 2001 presentations: downloading them ALL and burning my own CD. But8 there's only a few dozen of those, vs hundreds for CETS.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2001 09:59:14 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)  Subject: Re: FTP over SSH on VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0109280859.7ac297ea@posting.google.com>   b "Jan De Meyer" <jdm@ascure.com> wrote in message news:<3bb449ec$0$7113$4d4efb8e@news.be.uu.net>...G > Is anybody familiar with a good product for doing ftp over SSH-2 on a N > VMS-system (both server and client). Other suggestions for securing ftp on a > VMS are welcome too. >  > Thx, > Jan   A there is no such thing as secure ftp ... you can use an encrption B router or the last time i checked dec (i mean compaq) (i mean hp?)< had an encryption tool for rms files ... i think it is still
 available ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:12:39 +0100 ' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>   Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's> Message-ID: <elliott-63AF0A.18123928092001@corp.supernews.com>  $ In article <3bb4a031$1@news.si.com>,=  "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:   " >Our 11/725s are still in service.  Probably still booting up.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:24:24 -0400 - From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's0 Message-ID: <3BB4B248.9580A33E@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Brian Tillman wrote:N > got our first VAX in 1978 with, I think, VMS V2.0.  Our 11/725s are still in
 > service.  P Of all the VAXen I can think of, that strikes me as the LEAST desirable model toL keep around.  Why on earth did you choose such a feeble-minded machine?  DidN they also have that pathetically slow TU58 like the 750s?  You don't know painL until you have to boot up stand-alone BACKUP from 6 of those little suckers. (;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:31:40 +0100 & From: ChrisQ <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Good bye VAX-6400's- Message-ID: <3BB4B3FC.606E8C4E@aerosys.co.uk>    Brian Tillman wrote: > H > >When I started with VMS, the 64xx wasn't even a twinkle in a hardware > >engineers eyes. > > I > >11/750's for me.  They were used until well after the 6000 series were H > >released though, but that's another story. There's an 11/780 still in5 > >service I know about but that's yet another story.  > M > We've has 11/725s, 11/750s, 11/780s, 11/782s, 11/785s, 4100s, 4500s, 4600s, K > 6220s, 8520s, 8600s, 7000s, and numerous workstations (3100s, 4000s).  We N > got our first VAX in 1978 with, I think, VMS V2.0.  Our 11/725s are still in
 > service. > --  P I did some work at Smiths in Basingstoke (UK) in the mid eighties and remember aP 750 that would support a dozen or more users doing 68k source code edits with noM problem. Quite a bit slower when compiling though. They also had one of those L old rack mount HP1000's racked up next to it that was used for simulation ofK 6800 code. Good company, some fine minds. I think the building has now been N pulled down to make way for a supermarket. Real engineering company site taken/ over by barrow boys - sad state of the world...    O Still have a 725 in the garage with BSD4.3, 3 megs (3 boards) memory, an emulex P UD33 and Fuji SMD 330 meg drive (remove RC25 and there's loads of room for driveP and psu) that took over a day to do a kernel build after first installation fromP tape back in the late 80's. Has delua network card and still looks just like any- modern unix box from a network point of view.    Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:34:25 -0400 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> % Subject: HPaq Announces HP-UX Layoffs + Message-ID: <sbb47c76.065@AAASMTA.aaas.org>   K HPaq is apparently laying off some of it's HP-UX engineers, some who were = ' hired away from AT&T Bell Labs in 1996.   L http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?siteid=3Dmktw&dist=3Dmktwmore&gui=. d=3D%7B5CF30A4C-FDDA-4F49-AEC5-C0ABB88DD257%7D   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:47:05 +0100 + From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Legato 8 Message-ID: <6mc9rtocrv5dmg6q7fu89uu0svgabb5b3c@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:48:56 +0200, "Marc Van Dyck"  <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote:   H >Has anyone in this audience some kind of experience with the Legato forJ >OpenVMS backup software ? Is it worth anything ? We are in an environment4 >where we do backups from OpenVMS disk farms (> 1TB)? >to StorageTek Eagle drives over SCSI muxes and extenders, in 3 I >6,000 cartridges silos. Currently using a combination of OpenVMS Backup, L >SLS, and DCSC. Unix and NT are now entering the game, and we need to chooseI >a backup software - Legato or Veritas - for them. Veritas has no OpenVMS L >solution, Legato does, but is it worthwile enough to influence our choice ?# >Thanks in advance for your advice.  >  >Marc. >    Hi Marc,  A Did quite a lot of work about a year or so ago with the Networker F Client for VMS. Client at the time was a big Legato user and wanted to+ add the OpenVMS systems in to the strategy.   B Digital/Compaq sold the product to a company called WumpusWare who8 still support it. Website is http://www.wumpusware.com .   My experience was this....  C backup/restores over a dedicated backup LAN functioned correctly. I E was able (during testing and in production) to recover full disks and C individual files from Legato backups. The only issue is that in the C case of a system disk, you have to re-install sufficient VMS to get F TCPIP and the Networker client available. You cannot do "backup/image" via Legato.   F We took local image backups of the system disk if anything was alteredD and then used that to boot the system from an alternate system disk.E Then restore the Legato backup and do an "mc writeboot" on the drive. - Then the restored system disk booted up fine.   C You can search the Legato backup history for particular versions of B files as you would with something like SLS dependant on the backupD retention cycle. You can restore to alternate locations as you would5 expect and it understands multiple versions of files.   E The main issue I found is that the Legato client is not very tolerant E of file system errors. We settled for a regular "analyze/disk/repair" E to prevent relatively inocuous file system errors causing problems to  the client.   @ In particular, file that were marked for delete but not actuallyC deleted caused the client to stop and loop back to the start of the @ backup and start again.....pretty much forever as far as I could tell!!!   B The Legato setup killed suspected stalled backups so I would get aD call next day that a backup had failed and usually a ana/disk/repair
 would fix it.   F Since I have finished working for that particular client the Networker6 product has been updated so some of this may be fixed.    C My real-life experience is that Legato works for OpenVMS bearing in F mind the points above. I never lost a system disk during that time but@ did test this out and never had any problems restoring files via Legato.   7 Oh, and the UNIX-like commands irritated me a bit......        Ray..    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2001 09:15:17 -0700+ From: Ian.williams@Xaman.com (Ian Williams) / Subject: Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy < Message-ID: <eab8a5cc.0109280815.fad53c9@posting.google.com>  [ Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<3BB3F311.5B86430C@bigfoot.com>...  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >  > > I wrote to Xaman: E > > > Just curious as why you are bad mouthing VMS at this time. With L > > > renewed assaults against M$-based systems, this is the perfect time to8 > > > be promoting secure, stable platforms such as VMS. > >  > > ...to which they responded:  > > > David  >    > > > Thank you for note.  >   L > > > We are great fans of VMS here and think it is one of the most scalableI > > > and robust platforms available, your mail prompted us to review the G > > > content of our WEB site and I have to admit there was some poorly H > > > worded copy that inferred that VMS had no future in manufacturing,K > > > this is certainly not the intent, our business is predicated upon the > > > > platform and the last thing we would do is bad mouth it. > H > The above paragraph, A.K.A "spin", or in the vernacular of pool sharksJ > and billiards players: "ENGLISH" - small wonder coming from a U.K. firm. >  > > > J > > > The philosophy is simple, we have some excellent VMS skills in house? > > > and as anyone that has worked with VMS before knows it is E > > > fantastically scalable in terms of support and manageability. A H > > > considerable number of companies however, for there own commercialG > > > reasons are moving away which gives the System managers a limited J > > > future in a receding market. We however are investing heavily in ourI > > > technical teams training and skill sets to ensure VMS is around for  > > > some time. > > > L > > > I would welcome your views on the topic and if you would like to visitG > > > the Xaman office you are more than welcome, be assured VMS is our  > > > future too.  > > > 
 > > > Regards  > > > 	 > > > Ian  > > >  > > > Ian Williams > > >  > > > Chief Technology Officer > > >  > > > XAMAN Plc. > >  > > -- > > David J. Dachtera  > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > , > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/       
 Gentlemen,  D We have clearly caused some consternation with our remarks regardingB Manufacturing and VMS. These where intended to generate a reactionC from our target market, the wording of the copy on the web site may D have been somewhat inappropriately aggressive on an operating systemA that a significant part of our business is predicated. To certain A audiences the message clearly missed the point we where trying to 
 establish.  D  As part of our offering we, in the main, move users from VAX VMS toC alpha/VAX mixed platforms. As you can see our history is VMS and we , have built a considerable business upon VMS.  D I note some sceptical remarks have been raised, but would do no moreC than extend my offer to anyone within the group to come and discuss @ with us our capability and philosophy or a general debate on the future of VMS.    D As a team we have a great deal of experience with VMS and have greatD regard for the platform. We have instructed our marketing departmentC to change our collateral to better reflect our offering and welcome  any further comment.  E I would also like to thank David for forwarding my reply to the group @ and assure you that we are as passionate about VMS as all of you) clearly are! (not spin; or even English!)    Regards    Ian    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:45:10 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>/ Subject: Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacy + Message-ID: <3BB4B726.7BA0B54A@bigfoot.com>   E All jabbing aside, I thought the original text cited by Allen to be a B well-grounded, responsible summary of the fate of VMS.  No prudentF company having a current or former investment in VMS would not provideE alternatives to its customers in a timely fashion.  Your company does B plan to stay in business after all, and it is wise to provide yourB customer base with the freedom to move to platform(s) which do notH include a roller coaster ride of alleged support.  Although all of us inE c.o.v. do care for VMS dearly, some members of this newsgroup haven't E given up the ghost yet.  I hope fate is kind to these true believers, F however with the comedy team of Capellas and Fiorina as the headlinersD in this "new" HP show, the odds don't look good.  Even Tru64 and NSKE look like they might be "exiting stage left" especially amid cries of & "Viva La Linux" coming from the crowd.  G Providing migration paths to Unix is quite understandable, and although F I do understand why you offer the "Microsoft environment" solutions, IA think that the companies who choose this route will ultimately be @ disappointed (especially in terms of reliability).  At least the@ customers choosing the MS route will still be able to keep their0 hardware when they switch yet again, to Linux :)     HM     Ian Williams wrote:  > ] > Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<3BB3F311.5B86430C@bigfoot.com>...  > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > >  > > > I wrote to Xaman: G > > > > Just curious as why you are bad mouthing VMS at this time. With N > > > > renewed assaults against M$-based systems, this is the perfect time to: > > > > be promoting secure, stable platforms such as VMS. > > > ! > > > ...to which they responded: 
 > > > > David  > >  > > > > Thank you for note.  > > N > > > > We are great fans of VMS here and think it is one of the most scalableK > > > > and robust platforms available, your mail prompted us to review the I > > > > content of our WEB site and I have to admit there was some poorly J > > > > worded copy that inferred that VMS had no future in manufacturing,M > > > > this is certainly not the intent, our business is predicated upon the @ > > > > platform and the last thing we would do is bad mouth it. > > J > > The above paragraph, A.K.A "spin", or in the vernacular of pool sharksL > > and billiards players: "ENGLISH" - small wonder coming from a U.K. firm. > >  > > > > L > > > > The philosophy is simple, we have some excellent VMS skills in houseA > > > > and as anyone that has worked with VMS before knows it is G > > > > fantastically scalable in terms of support and manageability. A J > > > > considerable number of companies however, for there own commercialI > > > > reasons are moving away which gives the System managers a limited L > > > > future in a receding market. We however are investing heavily in ourK > > > > technical teams training and skill sets to ensure VMS is around for  > > > > some time. > > > > N > > > > I would welcome your views on the topic and if you would like to visitI > > > > the Xaman office you are more than welcome, be assured VMS is our  > > > > future too.  > > > >  > > > > Regards  > > > >  > > > > Ian  > > > >  > > > > Ian Williams > > > >   > > > > Chief Technology Officer > > > >0 > > > > XAMAN Plc. > > >t > > > -- > > > David J. Dachtera  > > > dba DJE Systemse > > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > >V. > > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:% > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o >  > Gentlemen, > F > We have clearly caused some consternation with our remarks regardingD > Manufacturing and VMS. These where intended to generate a reactionE > from our target market, the wording of the copy on the web site maySF > have been somewhat inappropriately aggressive on an operating systemC > that a significant part of our business is predicated. To certainnC > audiences the message clearly missed the point we where trying tof > establish. > F >  As part of our offering we, in the main, move users from VAX VMS toE > alpha/VAX mixed platforms. As you can see our history is VMS and wee. > have built a considerable business upon VMS. > F > I note some sceptical remarks have been raised, but would do no moreE > than extend my offer to anyone within the group to come and discussfB > with us our capability and philosophy or a general debate on the > future of VMS. > F > As a team we have a great deal of experience with VMS and have greatF > regard for the platform. We have instructed our marketing departmentE > to change our collateral to better reflect our offering and welcomes > any further comment. > G > I would also like to thank David for forwarding my reply to the groupdB > and assure you that we are as passionate about VMS as all of you+ > clearly are! (not spin; or even English!)h > 	 > Regardsh >  > IanD   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:52:32 -0400e( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>/ Subject: Re: Major VMS reseller says VMS legacyo+ Message-ID: <3BB4B8E0.1AB18ED9@bigfoot.com>   A A thousand pardons for the misspelling Mr. Greig: Alan vs. Allen.r   Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > G > All jabbing aside, I thought the original text cited by Allen to be aCD > well-grounded, responsible summary of the fate of VMS.  No prudentH > company having a current or former investment in VMS would not provideG > alternatives to its customers in a timely fashion.  Your company doeswD > plan to stay in business after all, and it is wise to provide yourD > customer base with the freedom to move to platform(s) which do notJ > include a roller coaster ride of alleged support.  Although all of us inG > c.o.v. do care for VMS dearly, some members of this newsgroup haven't2G > given up the ghost yet.  I hope fate is kind to these true believers,rH > however with the comedy team of Capellas and Fiorina as the headlinersF > in this "new" HP show, the odds don't look good.  Even Tru64 and NSKG > look like they might be "exiting stage left" especially amid cries off( > "Viva La Linux" coming from the crowd. > I > Providing migration paths to Unix is quite understandable, and although H > I do understand why you offer the "Microsoft environment" solutions, IC > think that the companies who choose this route will ultimately beoB > disappointed (especially in terms of reliability).  At least theB > customers choosing the MS route will still be able to keep their2 > hardware when they switch yet again, to Linux :) >  > HM >  > Ian Williams wrote:  > >0_ > > Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<3BB3F311.5B86430C@bigfoot.com>...0  > > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > > >. > > > > I wrote to Xaman:rI > > > > > Just curious as why you are bad mouthing VMS at this time. With P > > > > > renewed assaults against M$-based systems, this is the perfect time to< > > > > > be promoting secure, stable platforms such as VMS. > > > >a# > > > > ...to which they responded:s > > > > > Davidt > > >s > > > > > Thank you for note.n > > > P > > > > > We are great fans of VMS here and think it is one of the most scalableM > > > > > and robust platforms available, your mail prompted us to review the0K > > > > > content of our WEB site and I have to admit there was some poorly L > > > > > worded copy that inferred that VMS had no future in manufacturing,O > > > > > this is certainly not the intent, our business is predicated upon theeB > > > > > platform and the last thing we would do is bad mouth it. > > >0L > > > The above paragraph, A.K.A "spin", or in the vernacular of pool sharksN > > > and billiards players: "ENGLISH" - small wonder coming from a U.K. firm. > > >7	 > > > > >sN > > > > > The philosophy is simple, we have some excellent VMS skills in houseC > > > > > and as anyone that has worked with VMS before knows it is I > > > > > fantastically scalable in terms of support and manageability. A-L > > > > > considerable number of companies however, for there own commercialK > > > > > reasons are moving away which gives the System managers a limitediN > > > > > future in a receding market. We however are investing heavily in ourM > > > > > technical teams training and skill sets to ensure VMS is around forl > > > > > some time.	 > > > > >,P > > > > > I would welcome your views on the topic and if you would like to visitK > > > > > the Xaman office you are more than welcome, be assured VMS is our  > > > > > future too. 	 > > > > >a > > > > > Regardsa	 > > > > >4
 > > > > > Iano	 > > > > >y > > > > > Ian Williams	 > > > > > " > > > > > Chief Technology Officer	 > > > > >m > > > > > XAMAN Plc. > > > >o
 > > > > -- > > > > David J. Dachterar > > > > dba DJE Systemse > > > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > > > 0 > > > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:' > > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > >- > > Gentlemen, > >-H > > We have clearly caused some consternation with our remarks regardingF > > Manufacturing and VMS. These where intended to generate a reactionG > > from our target market, the wording of the copy on the web site mayeH > > have been somewhat inappropriately aggressive on an operating systemE > > that a significant part of our business is predicated. To certainiE > > audiences the message clearly missed the point we where trying to- > > establish. > >-H > >  As part of our offering we, in the main, move users from VAX VMS toG > > alpha/VAX mixed platforms. As you can see our history is VMS and we70 > > have built a considerable business upon VMS. > >:H > > I note some sceptical remarks have been raised, but would do no moreG > > than extend my offer to anyone within the group to come and discussbD > > with us our capability and philosophy or a general debate on the > > future of VMS. > >nH > > As a team we have a great deal of experience with VMS and have greatH > > regard for the platform. We have instructed our marketing departmentG > > to change our collateral to better reflect our offering and welcomea > > any further comment. > > I > > I would also like to thank David for forwarding my reply to the group,D > > and assure you that we are as passionate about VMS as all of you- > > clearly are! (not spin; or even English!)  > >  > > Regardsi > >t > > Ianf   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2001 12:38:14 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) + Subject: Re: New company to be called "HP".a3 Message-ID: <GNxHWc6RXdEo@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  o In article <K+86y1$dcrvg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:vk > In article <3BA87A33.3A42FAEE@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:l >> John Macallister wrote: >>> Statement from HP says:nN >>> "We expect to complete the merger in the first half of next year and, when< >>> completed, we will then do business under the HP name. " >>> I saw this on The Register.a >>   >> Is that new ????  >> pB >> It is not a real merger. HP are buying Compaq. Just like Compaq; >> bougth Digital. Ofcourse the company will be called HP !t > N > I couldn't find it any where on the ZD website, but the 9/19? issue of eWeekO > had a great cartoon, calling the new company "ChOMpAQ", with the "hp" letterseG > in lowercase and HP blue, with the rest in upper case and Compaq red.a > H > The caption read something like "seperate we <???>, together we bite!"  L OK, it's in front of me now. At the top the title is "The marketing campaignJ Mike & Carly rejected". On one side of the ChOMpAQ logo are charactures ofI Mike and Carly. On the other side is some sort of wolf-like creature. THef> text under the logo reads "Divided we fall, together we bite."  L > If someone does find a link to the cartoon anywhere, PLEASE post it and/or > email me a pointer!c   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2001 12:23:38 -05001 From: Graham Allan <allan@physics.umn.edu.nospam>l, Subject: Starting DECwindows on DEC 3000-600/ Message-ID: <w53hetnp6ud.fsf@crail.spa.umn.edu>l  G I just added an old DEC 3000m600 to our cluster, running VMS 7.2-1 (andhI the most recent patch bundle). It's a standard ethernet satellite type ofsF configuration, and there are similar hardware nodes already present inG the cluster. For some reason this system won't start DECwindows at bootgF time, even though WINDOW_SYSTEM=1 in MODPARAMS.DAT, and all the SYSGENJ parameters (which I know of) seem ok. The video card is the standard/basicG PMAGB-B, and DECwindows does start ok if I run sys$startup:decw$startup9 manually...   J In a flash of inspiration I checked the console settings, and found it hadI SERVER=ON (once upon a time in a past life, this box had no video and wasoI used with a serial console). I was sure setting this to OFF might fix it,8! but alas I was wrong - no change!   H Is there anything obvious I might have missed - could VMS have made someJ kind of setting based upon the console SERVER=ON at the time the satellite
 was added?   Graham -- eI -------------------------------------------------------------------------  Graham Allan9 School of Physics and Astronomy - University of MinnesotaoI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:26:56 GMTm From: sfm1115@bjc.org (sfm)  Subject: ThanksB/ Message-ID: <3bb4a4bd.5059795@news.starnet.net>   " For the help, it is now 100mb.....     Shawnu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:07:30 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h Subject: Re: VMS V7.2-2 vs V7.3 1 Message-ID: <n72t7.793$YP.22701@news.cpqcorp.net>v  $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ... >lA >This has been discussed many times before.  V7.2-6C1 technically A >is not DII COE, it is a release of VMS on which DII COE can run. ? >DEQ have said that a future regular VMS release will have thatw@ >capability as well, bringing various Unix-style capabilities to >the VMS customer base.s >rE >DII COE is some software owned by the US Government that runs on topnC >of an operating system.  It is not likely to be released by the USuB >Government to general users, but from what I have heard it is not" >something most people would want.  K In general, you are absolutely correct.  However, there are some aspects of E the DII/COE environment that might be useful in environments that arehH primarily UNIX.  It gives a common look & feel to both UNIX and VMS, and0 allows the same managment interfaces to be used.  J But for the time being, the DII/COE product is a US-only, limited product.  A The O/S features will merge into the mainline in the near future.J   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:52:44 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>8 Subject: Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?< Message-ID: <wV1t7.35797$vq.8339411@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3BB49AE1.11074788@caltech.edu...w > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:h >i5 > > Guess the goal right now is to minimize the entryaG > > price for the ES45 while ensuring that service revenues grow in theh future.  > >l >iJ > Well, assuming that they were perviously loading the full price of those two $ > years service into the sale price,K > and will take it out (exactly) now, then it's just renaming the cash flowi andc- > its a neutral change as far as the customercL > is concerned.  However, if they truncate the warranty and do not lower theD > price of the hardware an equivalent amount it is a price increase.  L I haven't looked at pricing (don't have access to sufficiently detailed infoH at this point) but I suspect CPQ didn't lower the price by an equivalentK amount since the ES45 is brand new iron. ES40 prices allegedly will be cut, D so it's even more difficult to assess the net impact of the services sleight-of-hand.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:00:10 GMTa' From: Steve Thompson <smt@twcny.rr.com> 8 Subject: Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109281300001.5914-100000@ibmbox.vgersoft.com>0  , On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Terry C. Shannon wrote:   >c6 > "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message' > news:3BB49AE1.11074788@caltech.edu...a > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i > >e7 > > > Guess the goal right now is to minimize the entrymI > > > price for the ES45 while ensuring that service revenues grow in thev	 > future.V > > >d > >pL > > Well, assuming that they were perviously loading the full price of those > twot& > > years service into the sale price,M > > and will take it out (exactly) now, then it's just renaming the cash flowc > andt/ > > its a neutral change as far as the customertN > > is concerned.  However, if they truncate the warranty and do not lower theF > > price of the hardware an equivalent amount it is a price increase. >eN > I haven't looked at pricing (don't have access to sufficiently detailed infoJ > at this point) but I suspect CPQ didn't lower the price by an equivalentM > amount since the ES45 is brand new iron. ES40 prices allegedly will be cut,aF > so it's even more difficult to assess the net impact of the services > sleight-of-hand.  J Even if the total change in price is zero, maintenance $$$ often comes outI of a different pot than new hardware $$$, and a change like this may well 2 make new hardware purchases easier for some folks.   -s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:19:16 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>8 Subject: Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?< Message-ID: <oi2t7.35987$vq.8354948@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "Steve Thompson" <smt@twcny.rr.com> wrote in messageC news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0109281300001.5914-100000@ibmbox.vgersoft.com...g >SL > Even if the total change in price is zero, maintenance $$$ often comes outK > of a different pot than new hardware $$$, and a change like this may well 4 > make new hardware purchases easier for some folks. >   = Good point. Anything to minimize the entry price is goodness.g   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:28:31 +0000 (UTC)t From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk8 Subject: Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?+ Message-ID: <9p2bvv$7t3$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   s In article <Pine.LNX.4.33.0109281300001.5914-100000@ibmbox.vgersoft.com>, Steve Thompson <smt@twcny.rr.com> writes:u- >On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Terry C. Shannon wrote:t >mK >Even if the total change in price is zero, maintenance $$$ often comes outpJ >of a different pot than new hardware $$$, and a change like this may well3 >make new hardware purchases easier for some folks.. >  >-s  > I And harder for others. Moving from VAX to Alphas was often made easier byhK showing the lower maintenance costs - the three year warranty being a major E saving. Some moves were funded entirely from the maintenance savings.   J Could it be that Compaq are positioning themselves so that when VMS, TRU64H ship on IA64 (with 3 year warranties) there will again be a push to move based on maintenance savings ?  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leadersr CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2001 10:42:10 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)h8 Subject: Re: Warranty on ES45 reduced from 3 years to 1?, Message-ID: <4oHjj5R0cTEl@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  = In article <oi2t7.35987$vq.8354948@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,  :     "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   > 6 > "Steve Thompson" <smt@twcny.rr.com> wrote in messageE > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0109281300001.5914-100000@ibmbox.vgersoft.com...  >>M >> Even if the total change in price is zero, maintenance $$$ often comes out:L >> of a different pot than new hardware $$$, and a change like this may well5 >> make new hardware purchases easier for some folks.g >> > ? > Good point. Anything to minimize the entry price is goodness.  > H   Not necessarily. It's often easier to get a larger one-time allocationF (eg new purchase) than get an ongoing budget increase. I suspect thereA will be as many customers who find a purchase harder with a loweri! initial price/higher maintenance.e  I   Perhaps the change has something to do with the HP takeover. WarrantiesiH are an "unfunded liability" in accounting terms and HP may prefer to getC the service revenues as an ongoing stream rather than taking on theiC warranty responsibility on systems being sold while Compaq is still  and independant entity.h  G   Does this change apply to all Alpha systems sold from now on or is itu specific to the ES45?i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.540 ************************