1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 02 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 181       Contents:% Re: Analyse/system like tool for unix 2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel Re: Checksum goes cpu bound  Corrupt SYSIOSDEF.TLB  Re: Corrupt SYSIOSDEF.TLB  DEC C and C++ compatibility ) Re: EMC / Symmetrix information requested 5 Re: Flash plugin now available for Mozilla on OpenVMS D FREE!!! E-mail->SMS, WWW->SMS,  SMS-Games!!! Welcome to WWW.4SMS.ORG Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad 
 HELP question  Re: HELP question  Re: HELP question + How do I create a "telnet terminal device"? / Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"? / Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"? + Re: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board  Re: I need any useful utility  Re: Itanium troubles Memory Channel vs. CI  Re: Memory Channel vs. CI  Re: Memory Channel vs. CI  Re: Migration Tool	 Re: mysql ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it  Re: simple ftp command file . Re: SNMP question (finding modem's IP address). Re: SNMP question (finding modem's IP address). Re: SNMP question (finding modem's IP address)4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :- TCPIP 5.0A no longer supported? # Re: TCPIP 5.0A no longer supported? E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64   Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 12:02:30 -0800 * From: dfreybur@yahoo.com (Doug Freyubrger). Subject: Re: Analyse/system like tool for unix= Message-ID: <7960d3ee.0204011202.7f4b91c0@posting.google.com>    Michael Heiming wrote: > Anamika wrote: > C > > Is there a analyse/system like tool for unix. I mean as good as E > > it is on VMS with comparable features. Any kind of unix would do.  > D > Every vendor has another tool, you need to be more specific about D > the OS you use, to get a helpful answer and perhaps point out the = > features you have on VMS and need/want on your *nix system.   @ In particular, pick a feature and Unix will have it whenever VMS> has it.  The feature will be implemented with different tools.  > You need to discuss what you want to do, and then we can help.@ Saying that something on VMS is fabulous has little meaning in aB forum that everyone is expected to know Unix and noone is expected; to know VMS, thus your question as it is phrased has little = meaning.  I can tell you like VMS.  Shrug, I liked VMS when I B first moved from VMS to Unix long ago.  I never stopled liking VMSA but in the end I learned that everything available on VMS is here 7 on Unix and then some once I've learned the dictionary.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 21:08:30 +02004 From: "Jan van Mastbergen" <jvmastbe@*nospam*wxs.nl>; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel * Message-ID: <a8abdd$8al$1@reader07.wxs.nl>  A Hmmm, is this contest open to US residents only? Over here in the K Netherlands, we don't have any states that the postal service would want to L know about. Additionally, I keep getting complaints that required fields are& empty while they definitely are *not*.   Jan   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message4 news:48Ko8.42319$44.16052544@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net... > A BOOT POOL! Great idea!!! > L > Herewith we have conclusive proof that not everyone in marketing is asleep > at the switch! > ? > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message / > news:oSIo8.1639$fL6.31660@news.cpqcorp.net...  > > Dear Newsgroup,  > > I > > We now have a booting contest up on the web.  Give it your best shot. - > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/  > >  > > Warm Regards,  > >  > > Sue  > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:30:27 -05000 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel 3 Message-ID: <Er3q8.1725$fL6.34520@news.cpqcorp.net>   E The limitations have to do with getting legal compaq and intel etc to K approve the contents. Go ahead and enter. we are looking at what we can do.    -warren    --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingK Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@remove.compaq.com L 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself ,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------        ? "Jan van Mastbergen" <jvmastbe@*nospam*wxs.nl> wrote in message $ news:a8abdd$8al$1@reader07.wxs.nl...C > Hmmm, is this contest open to US residents only? Over here in the J > Netherlands, we don't have any states that the postal service would want toJ > know about. Additionally, I keep getting complaints that required fields are ( > empty while they definitely are *not*. >  > Jan  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message6 > news:48Ko8.42319$44.16052544@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net... > > A BOOT POOL! Great idea!!! > > G > > Herewith we have conclusive proof that not everyone in marketing is  asleep > > at the switch! > > A > > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message 1 > > news:oSIo8.1639$fL6.31660@news.cpqcorp.net...  > > > Dear Newsgroup,  > > > K > > > We now have a booting contest up on the web.  Give it your best shot. / > > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/  > > >  > > > Warm Regards,  > > > 	 > > > Sue  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:54:48 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)$ Subject: Re: Checksum goes cpu bound3 Message-ID: <sO3q8.1728$fL6.34497@news.cpqcorp.net>   r In article <NZlp8.3223$lh5.150501421@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, "Bonita Fisher" <B.J.Fisher@Prodigy.net> writes:K :(I know that the checksum command is undocumented and unsupported, but the  :question anyway)  : H :We use checksum to check changes to a file during an anti-virus scan inI :incoming mail (details don't really matter).  Twice in the past week, we M :arrived in the morning to find that the process doing a checksum had run for K :6 hours (rather than more like 6 seconds) over night (thus backups did not F :finish ...).  This behavior is not completely unknown, but has anyone! :discovered any solution or help?  :  :We are OpenVMS 7.2-1 on Alpha.   !   Not much to go on here, really.   G   As for CHECKSUM itself, a DIRECTORY/FULL for the target file, and an  F   idea of what part of the CHECKSUM image is looping -- a list of someH   of the PCs from SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUOUS might be useful, for instance.C   (We need enough to reproduce the problem, if there is any hope of E   fixing it -- either details, or a BACKUP saveset of the file, etc.) E   The installation and use of the AMDS or Availability Manager tools  <   would be useful for spotting any lock collisions, as well.  G   The above paragraph should not be construed to indicate that CHECKSUM ;   can or will be fixed -- I can't promise that will happen.   I   I will assume you know this CHECKSUM tool is not the recommended means  G   to scan for this stuff -- for various reasons, not the least of which    is the simplistic checksum.   H   MD5 provides a rather more robust checksum -- I'd point you at the FAQH   for an MD5 tool, but I've just checked the URL for MD5 within the FAQ,:   and the link has apparently rotted.  The new MD5 URL is:  @     http://www.support.compaq.com/svctools/md5-instructions.html    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 20:48:08 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> Subject: Corrupt SYSIOSDEF.TLB/ Message-ID: <uaidi98h8r8d06@corp.supernews.com>   G While doing a fortran compile I got an error referencing to IO$V_RESET  ; PARER*.  I extracted IODEF from SYSIOSDEF.TLB to IODEF.FOR.   F The comment line "! XA (DR11-W) driver function modifier bits" is the J approximate location in IODEF.FOR.  What I find is PARAMETER IO$S_RESET = I 1. And the next line is PARAMETER IO$V_RESET PARER*.   This is where the  8 error is.  Does anybody know what IO$V_RESET is set to??   Obviously, PARER* is junk.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:54:27 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org" Subject: Re: Corrupt SYSIOSDEF.TLB) Message-ID: <02040122542763@antinode.org>   # From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>:  > [...] I > While doing a fortran compile I got an error referencing to IO$V_RESET  = > PARER*.  I extracted IODEF from SYSIOSDEF.TLB to IODEF.FOR.  > [...]   1    Mine's in SYS$LIBRARY:FORSYSDEF.TLB, and says:   - !  XA (DR11-W) driver function modifier bits.              MAP '                 PARAMETER IO$S_WORD = 1 f                 PARAMETER IO$V_WORD = 6                 !  Word (interrupt)/block (DMA) mode specifier*                 PARAMETER IO$S_SETFNCT = 1X                 PARAMETER IO$V_SETFNCT = 9              !  Set "FNCT" bits in device CSR+                 PARAMETER IO$S_DATAPATH = 1 `                 PARAMETER IO$V_DATAPATH = 10            !  Change UBA datapath (direct/buffered)(                 PARAMETER IO$S_CYCLE = 1X                 PARAMETER IO$V_CYCLE = 12               !  Set "cycle" bit in device CSR(                 PARAMETER IO$S_RESET = 1Q                 PARAMETER IO$V_RESET = 13               !  Device reset specifier              BYTE %FILL (1)             END MAP   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:49:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> $ Subject: DEC C and C++ compatibility, Message-ID: <3CA91C01.87CC284E@videotron.ca>   OK, did my homework:   VAX VMS 7.2    DEC C 6.0 (from hobbyist CD) C++ 5.6C (from DEC's ftp site)   The actors:   ) [1] DEC C's  SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLB" < [2] DEC C's  SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]*.h ( [3] C++.s    SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLB   [1] has 75 modules [3] has 404 modules M [2] has 404 files  (75 of which had 2 versions, total 479 files in directory)     N Interestingly, there were differences found between DEC-C's [1] and C++'s [3], notably the following modules:	 	BUILTINS 5 			PAL_PROBER uses "offset" as middle argument in C++ 7 			PAL_PROBER uses "length" as middle argument in DEC C ) 			_popcnt, _poppar, _leadz, _trailz are:  					__int64 in C++  					unsigned __int64 in DEC-C   	CTYPE( 			_ctypet (*decc$$ga___ctypet) in DEC-C% 			_ctypet (decc$$ga___ctypet) in C++    		but later on: 2 			extern const unsigned int __ctypet []; in DEC-CI 			extern const unsigned int *__ctypet ; in C++ (comments added above it)      	IF_TRNSTAT L 		59 differences. Mostlty stuff such as u_char in DEC-C and __u_char in C++.   	IN6 		u_int for DEC-C  		__u_int for C++  	NAMSER  		u_char, u_long in DEC-C  		__u_char, __u_long in C++  		34 differences  G NOTE: in none of those files where there are differences, are there any N comments to indicate which is more recent. (no differences found in comments).    J NOTE: of the 75 files which have 2 versions in the [2] directory, the sameH differences exist between the ;1 and ;2 version, with the second version& matching what the C++ .TLB  installed.  L NOTE: the second version in that directory seems to have been created by theN C++ installation, even though the C++ installation makes no mention that files+ would have been modified in that directory.   M I will have to do some additional work to figure out which of these files are  more recent.  E The C++ 5.6C VMSINSTAL procedure is most certaintly flawed and poorly L documented. it should warn that it is about to squash files that may be moreE recent. Do not specify the "purge files installed" if you install it.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 15:05:49 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 2 Subject: Re: EMC / Symmetrix information requested= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0204011505.44af0701@posting.google.com>   i "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<mZjp8.1584$Ba.2127549@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>... 2 > Does anyone have experiences with EMC in general  F Here's one EMC customer's recent experience (and although the hardwareC involved was EMC's Clariion, not Symmetrix, it does demonstrate the : company's attitude toward customers and product problems):,   http://www.gunbroker.com/user/Announce.asp   "01/20/2002 = These last two days have been the worst two days we have ever F experienced at GunBroker.com. Our EMC disk array, which is supposed toC guarantee 100% uptime, failed.  It took EMC 24 hours to get it back F online, and when they got it back online they corrupted our database.". ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:51:44 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>> Subject: Re: Flash plugin now available for Mozilla on OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3CA849D0.48941C26@Mvb.Saic.Com>   John Reagan wrote: >  > John Reagan wrote: > > Hmmm...  > > I > > Doesn't work for me on any of those pages.  It doesn't show up in the  > - > OK, I found my problem down in some logs...  > 0 > The .SO file fails to load and gets the error: > < > %SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image > C > I'm running V7.2-1.  Must not be new enough.  What is the minimum F > version of OpenVMS that I need?  Can it be relinked against an older# > version so more folks can use it?   E My build system is a VMS V7.3 system using Motif V1.2-6.  I will grab C the necessary shareable libraries from a Motif 1.2-5 system and try + linking against them and repost the plugin.2  
 Mark Berryman2   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 02:58:37 GMTu) From: support@4sms.org (Free SMS Support)nM Subject: FREE!!! E-mail->SMS, WWW->SMS,  SMS-Games!!! Welcome to WWW.4SMS.ORGg. Message-ID: <a8b6ot$m1p$2529@dipt.donbass.net>   Absolutelly FREE!!!   Y Multilanguage, multiSMSservice gate  www.4sms.org : English, Germany Finnish, Russian!!! a  & Send SMS FREE more than 50 countries!    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 03:53:48 GMTA1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad' Message-ID: <3CA92DAB.A3E27D6F@fsi.net>e   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CA13AB7.CA7970B1@fsi.net...R > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > >eB > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > > news:3CA12FEB.C70B2BFC@fsi.net...C > > > > "Stuart, Ed" wrote: 	 > > > > >yN > > > > > Looks like IBM hires marketing firms that deliver.  The back page of > thefL > > > > > current issue of Computerworld has an ad for their eserver series. > TheN > > > adM > > > > > says "Runs UNIX. Runs LINUX. And runs runs runs runs runs runs...."  > ANA > > > > > concept like this would have worked well for OpenVMS onB > AlphaServers.l > > > > K > > > > Nah - might have made them a pile of money, which is the last thingl? > > > > anyone at the Q wants to see either OVMS or Alpha do...o > > >lL > > > Umm, I would venture to guess that Mark Gorham, Sue Skonetski, and the > UsuallJ > > > Compaq Lurkers in comp.os.vms would like to see VMS make big bags of > > > money... > >rL > > Well, Sue and the ng denizens (sounds like a musical group, eh?) I couldJ > > see. From Mark G.('s level) on up, I see no evidence to support such a
 > > claim. > M > How well do you know Mark? I see no reason why he wouldn't want VMS to make  > big bags of money,  G ...until that conflicts with the desires/dictates of his higher-ups, inA@ which case I would expect that he would retrench and protect his position. I could be wrong...i  ; > he's the VP in charge of the product. Also one of the keye) > supporters of the VMS Hobbyist program.0  B Wish we could find a "key supporter" of an "Affordable Program", a8 "Marketing Program", an "OpenVMS/IA32 Program", etc. ...  L > So I would submit that one should be looking a bit higher on the org chart > than the Mark Gorham level.   F Agreed. However, that becomes a bit like the cold war unless you're an% insider of some kind - which I'm not.    --   David J. Dachtera6 dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/2   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 03:56:36 GMT01 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad' Message-ID: <3CA92E55.26BADC18@fsi.net>a   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:M > C > "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messagei, > news:3CA20170.21D27221@blueyonder.co.uk... > >  > >u > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:T > > >gB > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > > news:3CA12FEB.C70B2BFC@fsi.net...- > > > > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:-K > > > > Nah - might have made them a pile of money, which is the last thing(? > > > > anyone at the Q wants to see either OVMS or Alpha do...  > > >-L > > > Umm, I would venture to guess that Mark Gorham, Sue Skonetski, and the > UsualmJ > > > Compaq Lurkers in comp.os.vms would like to see VMS make big bags of > > > money... > >nH > > just how are they going to do that without targeting new or recently > > discarded markets? > J > Good question. Perhaps VMS Marketing has a Better Answer, because I sure > don't! ;-}  B Who wouldn't love to be the "fly on the wall" when the "Stupid VMSF Tricks" are being spawned in the board rooms and the hallowed halls of the Q...   -- a David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/V   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 06:47:25 GMTc- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-d08lxBsm3OXv@localhost>k  5 On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:04:15 UTC, "Terry C. Shannon" t <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:    > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:6E$KGaxL9Onh@eisner.encompasserve.org...eA > > In article <d7791aa1.0203270623.4664bc0a@posting.google.com>,1, > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > >"L > > > I still don't understand why IBM didn't step in and make a hostile bidN > > > for Q ... w/alpha vms tru64 they would have ruled the high end world ... > >tK > >    IBM is quite certain they already own the world.  That's why they're < > >    one of the few companies Bill Gates cant push around. > > H > Well, it seems to me that IBM had a rawthuh unpleasant experience with2 > Micro$oft some years back. T'was an OS/2 Moment. > L > At least IBM is smart enough to keep Micro$oft at arm's length rather than" > playing the role of organ donor. >   B I keep thinking about the bit in the film 'Pirates of the Valley' A where Gates does his deal with IBM and the IBM man says that the cB hardware is where the money is. IBM is still trying to prove that D statement. I suspect there interest in Linux is because it supports 
 that theory. e   -- e Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:28:25 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: HELP question, Message-ID: <3CA9090A.C9E9445F@videotron.ca>  & $ HELP HINTS Operators   (VAX VMS 7.2)  L It says that to indicate a negative number one uses "--" and to subtract one
 uses "--".  M Is that an error in the documentation ? Or some quirk in HELP that prevents a  single - from appearing?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 20:15 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)- Subject: Re: HELP question, Message-ID: <1APR200220152794@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...e' }$ HELP HINTS Operators   (VAX VMS 7.2)e } M }It says that to indicate a negative number one uses "--" and to subtract onem }uses "--".m } N }Is that an error in the documentation ? Or some quirk in HELP that prevents a }single - from appearing?   A It could lead to some pretty gruesome errors, too, if you were to- try to do it that way:   $ a=1- $ b=2- $ write sys$output --a 1e $ write sys$output a--bn 3w  9 negative negative 1 is 1, and 1 minus -2 is 3, after all.m  ? Single "-" characters appear in other places in the help, so ite isn't that.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:38:29 -0500y2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: HELP questionI Message-ID: <rdeininger-0104022238290001@1cust7.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>c  5 In article <3CA9090A.C9E9445F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeio% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e  ' >$ HELP HINTS Operators   (VAX VMS 7.2)l >vM >It says that to indicate a negative number one uses "--" and to subtract one  >uses "--".s > N >Is that an error in the documentation ? Or some quirk in HELP that prevents a >single - from appearing?e  E It's certainly an error.  Probably something to do with the tool that.E generates plain text from the document source.  Still broken in Alphai
 V7.3, BTW.  J (AFAIK, the same source file generates the DCL Dictionary manual, and muchA of the DCL help.  The HINTS entry may be a special case.  The DCL2I dictionary seems to be sending me off to read the OpenVMS User's Manual.):  I Have you reported the error via the official channels?  Each manual has anA "Reader's Comments" section in the Preface, which gives email and.E snailmail addresses.  The email address is openvmsdoc@compaq.com .  IhH believe there is still time to get corrections into the pipeline for theJ V7.3-1 release.  If you hurry.  I think it is safe to send comments on the. DCL help topics via the documentation address.   Posting here doesn't count.,   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 14:46:26 -0800u+ From: hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires)k4 Subject: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"?= Message-ID: <ff921edf.0204011446.21bacf6b@posting.google.com>e  < I am writing a server that will talk to users through telnetB connections.  I was reading the TCPIP (UCX) programming manual and@ noticed a small section about associating a socket with a telnet? terminal and letting the TNDRIVER do all the fun telnet options F negotiation and such; which then allows me to use all the terminal qio> functions on it (the terminal which is now associated with the socket).  F My question is, how do I create a "telnet terminal device" (referenced" in the TCPIP programming manual at\ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/TCPIP_SOCKETS_API_SYS_SRVS.pdf,D pg 6-65) to bind the socket to?  I've searched the I/O users manual,C the TCPIP manual, and the master index but haven't found anything.  ? The TCPIP manual has examples for every chapter except for thismA IO$_TTY_PORT function.  Anyways, any pointers, examples, or othera> places to go to find information would be greatly appreciated.  C My ip stack is Multinet 4.4 but I am writing this in UCX because ittC looks like all the stacks can emulate UCX now-a-days.  If anyone is ? aware of any problems with this arrangement please let me know.w   Thanks,m
 Scott Squiress   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:08:38 GMT.2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)8 Subject: Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"?3 Message-ID: <WL5q8.1732$fL6.34388@news.cpqcorp.net>n  k In article <ff921edf.0204011446.21bacf6b@posting.google.com>, hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires) writes:-= :I am writing a server that will talk to users through telnet- :connections...l  E   Oh, like the new telnet-based web browser that's shipped today? :-)iF   On OpenVMS, you can invoke this new web browser using the following 
   command:  "     $ telnet WebserverIpAddress 80    d> :My question is, how do I create a "telnet terminal device"... ..D :My ip stack is Multinet 4.4 but I am writing this in UCX because itD :looks like all the stacks can emulate UCX now-a-days.  If anyone is@ :aware of any problems with this arrangement please let me know.  H   In TCP/IP Services, the OpenVMS FAQ section "How can I set up reverse :   telnet (like reverse LAT)?" should answer your question.  G   You will have to ask Multinet for details on that implementation, andS6   for details on how Multinet might create the device.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:40:17 -0600RC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> 8 Subject: Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"?H Message-ID: <craig.berry-D66858.23401701042002@news.directvinternet.com>  3 In article <WL5q8.1732$fL6.34388@news.cpqcorp.net>, 4  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:  @ > In article <ff921edf.0204011446.21bacf6b@posting.google.com>, / > hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires) writes:1  @ > :My question is, how do I create a "telnet terminal device"... > ..F > :My ip stack is Multinet 4.4 but I am writing this in UCX because itF > :looks like all the stacks can emulate UCX now-a-days.  If anyone isB > :aware of any problems with this arrangement please let me know. > J >   In TCP/IP Services, the OpenVMS FAQ section "How can I set up reverse < >   telnet (like reverse LAT)?" should answer your question.  & In Multinet look at TELNET/CREATE_NTY.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 04:40:52 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>4 Subject: Re: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board+ Message-ID: <3CA9368B.C11523AC@prodigy.net>.   David Mathog wrote:  >  > John Smith wrote:m > >i+ > > HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Boardn, > > Last Updated: April 01, 2002 07:39 AM ET > L > > In a statement, HP said the board's decision not to nominate Hewlett wasO > > based on his adversarial relationship with the company, as evidenced by hisEJ > > recent litigation against HP. It also cited concerns about his lack of > > candor and issues of trust.  > R > Well, they can't hardly say they're dumping him because he disagrees with Carly,L > can they?  U.S. BOD elections are a joke most of the time anyway - the BODN > picks the candidates and they run unopposed.  The only way alternative ideasM > get onto a board is when somebody buys enough stock to force the company to_H > give them one or more seats.  The thing is, Hewlett and the parties he > represents7 > are way past the point at which that normally occurs.  > P > It will be interesting to see how the stockholders vote on the candidates thatR > are listed on the ballot.  Normally BOD elections are a foregone conclusion - ifL > you're on the ballot, you're in.  This year might be different.  If I heldH > that stock I'd vote no on all candidates (since its impossible to voteO > for somebody else.) HP won't be putting on the full court press (150$M?) like4 > theyO > did for the merger (which was half paid for, in essence, by the 50% who voted B > against the merger) and retribution may be meted out by the PO'dN > shareholders on the losing side of the merger debate.  For instance, whetherI > or not the merger goes through Fiorina is up for election.  It's withindG > the realm of possiblity that she might be voted off of the BOD.  EveniI > some of the big players who voted for the merger may have enough doubtsv4 > in her ablities to vote that way (ie, Merger good, > Carly Bad). This voteiG > will take place 4/26/02 which is close enough given the uncertaintiesuC > in the votes and the ongoing legal action that the merger may notT > have closed by then. > 8 > Am I ever glad I don't work for HP or own their stock! > P > > While it is almost unheard-of to have a director take actions such as WalterJ > > Hewlett has taken, equally it is almost unheard-of to have the largestP > > shareholder  of a company not represented on the board, especially when that+ > > stake is as large as the Hewlett Trust.  > J > Exactly.  Which sets up yet another opening for legal action against HP. > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu  J Once it's a penny stock, he'll be able to buy enough additional shares to  take control.  <g>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:36:36 +0200sB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>& Subject: Re: I need any useful utility7 Message-ID: <3CA8EF04.46A7@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>    Kim, In Soo wrote: >  > Hi.  > 7 > Would you send me any kind of useful openvms utility?n= > If you have any useful utility/command procedure and useful 5 > information for openvms, plesase send and teach me.c  ) Tidy is a HTML check and cleanup utility t.  http://home.wanadoo.nl/erens/openvms/tidy.htm   -- - ME Posted by news://news.nb.nus   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 06:47:28 GMT-- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)m Subject: Re: Itanium troublesM5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-OZ5jTyKeempV@localhost>o  5 On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:19:57 UTC, "Terry C. Shannon" S <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:   	 ..Snip...a  F > > are shipped to software vendors starting next week.  If Intel missF > > that one, there is no chance that it will reach production systems > > this summer. > >SL > > >But, again, why don't we know by now?  Isn't this thing supposed to hit' > > >volume ship in a couple of months?u > > H > > 'Summer 2002' is the official date.  A good many OEMs were told thatH > > meant June 2002, but I doubt there is a hope in hell of that, thoughC > > as far as I know none of the OEMs have been told of a slippage.V > L > Well, "Summer" doesn't officially begin (in the Northern Hemisphere) until > June 21...  E Hey that's my trick. Although, I always use 'end of autumn' (dec 21) -D so I suppose it's alright really :-). Actually, I did once complete F the Q/A of our cross-assembler suite at 12:35 21-Dec. The machine was  rundown for Xmas at 13:00...   -- e Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:59:34 +0900( From: "InSoo Kim" <insoo.kim@compaq.com> Subject: Memory Channel vs. CI3 Message-ID: <1o7q8.1736$fL6.34736@news.cpqcorp.net>-  6 MC throughput is very high(100 MB/s) than CI(17 MB/s). But CI cost is very high.a Why? Is any other advantage for CI? Otherwise, disadvantage for MC?2   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:23:43 GMTh( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>" Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI- Message-ID: <PC8q8.199521$q2.17631@sccrnsc01>   I Besides the speed, the major difference between CI and MC is that you cansL hang disk controllers (HSCxx) off the CI. MC is only an inter-processor bus.  G CI is ancient technology, but as such, it's extremely reliable. It also L offers fault-tolerant dual paths and the ability to connect/disconnect nodesH without affecting other, still operational nodes. CI will work with both* VAXen and Alpha systems, MC is Alpha only.  	 Mark Levyi SMAi  3 "InSoo Kim" <insoo.kim@compaq.com> wrote in messages- news:1o7q8.1736$fL6.34736@news.cpqcorp.net...m8 > MC throughput is very high(100 MB/s) than CI(17 MB/s). > But CI cost is very high.  > Why?  > Is any other advantage for CI?! > Otherwise, disadvantage for MC?o >m >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 07:48:04 +0200i From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI& Message-ID: <3CA94614.7080900@home.nl>   Mark E. Levy wrote:   J >Besides the speed, the major difference between CI and MC is that you canM >hang disk controllers (HSCxx) off the CI. MC is only an inter-processor bus.  > H >CI is ancient technology, but as such, it's extremely reliable. It alsoM >offers fault-tolerant dual paths and the ability to connect/disconnect nodesnI >without affecting other, still operational nodes. CI will work with bothg+ >VAXen and Alpha systems, MC is Alpha only.p >e  All true, but CI is end of life.I Sollution for Alpha: Fibrechannel for the storage, 100 Mb/sec or Gigabit e ethernet for cluster traffic.    >a > 
 >Mark Levy >SMA >u4 >"InSoo Kim" <insoo.kim@compaq.com> wrote in message. >news:1o7q8.1736$fL6.34736@news.cpqcorp.net... >e8 >>MC throughput is very high(100 MB/s) than CI(17 MB/s). >>But CI cost is very high.d >>Why?  >>Is any other advantage for CI?! >>Otherwise, disadvantage for MC?d >> >> >  >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:33:49 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Migration Tool ' Message-ID: <3CA8C42D.8BF9E840@Free.fr>t  ? send me mail with your questions, config, strategy, I may help.t   D.   Suhas wrote: > M > Is there a tool which can help in migration from TRU64unix to HP-UX. If yesiE > please provide me links to sites which can give me more informationC   -- oH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670H 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Apr 2002 12:46:18 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: mysql- Message-ID: <87eli0t49x.fsf@prep.synonet.com>M  * "Wim_K" <verledentijd@hotmail.com> writes:  E > Hello I'm looking for a freeware database, I was looking for mysql,t > but it isn't ported to VMS.w   ' > Is there something else I could use??    Have you looked at Mimer?  http://www.mimer.com   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 13:47:11 -0800b. From: quodling@bigpond.net.au (Peter Quodling)2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it< Message-ID: <7106a72f.0204011347.780aaed@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C9C66BA.42EBE1B0@videotron.ca>...t > Paul Repacholi wrote:II > > Part of the Q4 results could well have been folks who needed replaced I > > kit, and wanted it *NOW*, to hell with the cost. Getting a hundred ortI > > so 7K vaxes at short order should provide a small profit for some one  > > for instance.s > E > Didn't that Quarter also have a big blip dues to a sale at Tandem ?l > L > By the way, i read some news article from some HP guy who said that the HPE > services division will be well below expextations for this quarter.h  F I have seen on a couple of very major accounts, instances of HP trying@ to pre-poach Compaq Hardware Sales in the lead up to the merger.  C As for HP buying into the Compaq professional services business, its? literally doesn't exist anymore. They (Compaq) have had massiveiF layoffs and are rejecting new business. I think the few that remain inD senior positions, are posturing for as comfortable a fall from grace as possible.  D Personally, as a Compaq Stockholder, I am also wondering why I stillC haven't received my Proxy paperwork, in spite of repeated requests.o   Peter    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:10:03 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>r2 Subject: RE: Predictions - just for the hell of itT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Peter -C  G >>> As for HP buying into the Compaq professional services business, iteG literally doesn't exist anymore. They (Compaq) have had massive layoffsiE and are rejecting new business. I think the few that remain in seniorI@ positions, are posturing for as comfortable a fall from grace as possible.<<<  % Wow, where did that fud come from?=20d  	 ROTFL ...?   "rejecting new business?"r  B ROTFL .. Man, would that statement ever get a round of laughs from, Business Development folks we have in PS.=20  C Like all Services groups from all companies, we would certainly notyD engage in every opportunity that came our way as it might might makeD better sense to use a Partner, but we are certainly not turning awayB business in area's of core competancies .. PS OpenVMS VAX to AlphaD migrations are certainly going well right now in Canada (and US fromD what I heard). We have 4 major VAX to Alpha engagements right now inE Eastern/Central that I am aware of and I do not deal with the Westerne part of Canada.5  H Outsourcing services stuff is also going well from what I have heard.=20  D Care to state where this fud came from so we can correct the source?   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.I Professional Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: Peter Quodling [mailto:quodling@bigpond.net.au]=20 Sent: April 1, 2002 4:47 PMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it    8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( news:<3C9C66BA.42EBE1B0@videotron.ca>... > Paul Repacholi wrote:tC > > Part of the Q4 results could well have been folks who needed=20rJ > > replaced kit, and wanted it *NOW*, to hell with the cost. Getting a=20J > > hundred or so 7K vaxes at short order should provide a small profit=20 > > for some one for instance. >=20E > Didn't that Quarter also have a big blip dues to a sale at Tandem ?  >=20H > By the way, i read some news article from some HP guy who said that=20F > the HP services division will be well below expextations for this=20
 > quarter.  F I have seen on a couple of very major accounts, instances of HP trying@ to pre-poach Compaq Hardware Sales in the lead up to the merger.  C As for HP buying into the Compaq professional services business, it6G literally doesn't exist anymore. They (Compaq) have had massive layoffs E and are rejecting new business. I think the few that remain in seniora@ positions, are posturing for as comfortable a fall from grace as	 possible.e  D Personally, as a Compaq Stockholder, I am also wondering why I stillC haven't received my Proxy paperwork, in spite of repeated requests.o   Petern   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 22:34:22 -0800y. From: quodling@bigpond.net.au (Peter Quodling)2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it< Message-ID: <7106a72f.0204012234.cc5a568@posting.google.com>   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...r	 > Peter -h% > Wow, where did that fud come from? u >  > ROTFL ...o >  > "rejecting new business?"  > D > ROTFL .. Man, would that statement ever get a round of laughs from, > Business Development folks we have in PS.  > F Actually, it's from an Ex Compaq PS Business Manager. You know, one ofF those lucky people that brings in 20 Million dollars worth of businessD a year, and doesn't survive one of the purges. A Month a go, when heB left compaq he had a 5 month front log of work, and a dozen peopleE working in his team.  That frontlog has now disappeared, and the last $ member of his team has been laid of.  E HAve a look at Compaq Australia, where at last count, around 120 haves& been laid off in the last month or so.  E > Like all Services groups from all companies, we would certainly notrF > engage in every opportunity that came our way as it might might makeF > better sense to use a Partner, but we are certainly not turning away, > business in area's of core competancies ..  E What we have seen is Partner's presenting business where the customereD wants to deal with compaq as a prime, but rather than subcontract it1 back to the Partner, CPQ is dumping the business.t  F > Care to state where this fud came from so we can correct the source?  B How's that? Send in Carly and Curly's thug squad to rough them up?   Petera   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:29:05 +0000 (UTC)* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)$ Subject: Re: simple ftp command file0 Message-ID: <a8bfj1$3n3$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  X In article <3CA08A3A.7010807@arcor.de>, "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de> writes:* >$ ftp/user=lumpi/passw=grrzbrrgl nnn.nn.n
 >put test.dat- >exit- >$ exit- >  >should do it.  	 Also try:e  8 $ copy/ftp/ascii test.dat nn.nn.nn.nn"lumpi grrzbrrgl"::   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edun   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:08:09 +0000 (UTC)2 From: lewisnospam@omega.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)7 Subject: Re: SNMP question (finding modem's IP address):. Message-ID: <a8ap8p$irn$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes in article <3C9F95AB.14D55CCE@videotron.ca> dated Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:25:13 -0500:mI >Thanks. But rather hard to use the snmp_request if you don't know the ip0 >address of the modem :-(o  6 >http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/82/261454  , * >scroll down after the debate/disclaimers.  K SNMP has no broadcast capability.  You need the IP address to make it work.n  J CMU has a basic client-side VMS implementation which includes SNMPWALK.  I2 got it from these places but I can't see them now.  5 ftp://ftp.net.cmu.edu/pub/snmp/cmu-snmp-V1.14.tar.gz.vA ftp://ftp.net.cmu.edu/pub/snmp/snmpapps/cmu-snmpapps-V1.4.tar.gz.t  K A DOCSIS modem is a pretty low-level device.  It doesn't need an IP addressTI except for SNMP and TFTP.  When your computer (or NAT router) sends out a:J broadcast DHCP request, the modem just forwards it.  I doubt you'll see an# IP address under normal conditions.3  E At the risk of helping somebody who wants to steal bandwidth from hisw  neighbors, I'll just say RTFcmM.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgi> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:29:15 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 7 Subject: Re: SNMP question (finding modem's IP address)a, Message-ID: <3CA8ED26.FF7ABC2F@videotron.ca>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:tG > At the risk of helping somebody who wants to steal bandwidth from hish" > neighbors, I'll just say RTFcmM.  I My ISP provides 0 support if you have problems when you have more than one windows PC connected (eg: lan).s  M I spent WEEKS on the phone with them (45 minut wait each time) 2 years ago to J get the *&?%*? modem to work. They had omitted to tell me that their modemN will only deal with the first 3 ethernet adresses it sees, so any traffic fromN the 4th ethernet address just gets dumped. So when my 4th machine (mac)b triedK to send a DHCP request, there was never any answer. The ISP kept blaming myfN mac, my lan etc etc. And I had absolutely no tools to test the modem at my end! to prove that my lan worked find.d  K I don't care about the tricks to increase download speeds, I just want some J way to test the modem and get any type of response so that the next time I6 have problems, I can confront the ISP with more facts.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 03:49:46 GMTh" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)7 Subject: Re: SNMP question (finding modem's IP address)o, Message-ID: <3cad28af.16005396@news.ptd.net>  K On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:05:53 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i wrote:   >system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:h+ >> JF> I know the modem's ethernet address.l >>  ? >> So check your arp cache for the IP -> ethernet relationship.i >> kL >> Also, the article you reference in the supplied URL states that the modem& >> address is typically 192.168.100.1.  ' not knowing anything about SNMP, but...   N if an address in the range of 192.168.x.x is what is expected, then this small Java program might help:   import java.io.*;u import java.net.*;   public class PrintIP {       static InetAddress ia;     static InetAddress[] array;      ,     public static void main(String[] args) {
         try {t,             ia = InetAddress.getLocalHost();=             System.out.println("getLocalHost() says->" + ia);a             ?             array = InetAddress.getAllByName(ia.getHostName()); 4             for (int i = 0; i < array.length; i++) {8                 System.out.println(i + "->" + array[i]);
             } ,         } catch (UnknownHostException uhe) {$             System.out.println(uhe);	         }a     }u   }:  * It should work with any Java version:      javac "PrintIP.java" java "PrintIP"  M If I'm off track here, then please let me know how it's not returning what isl wanted.u   >y >Arp remains empty. M >I used ethermon to trace anything coming out of modem. After a minute or twoeM >or the modem trying over the coax (which is disconnected), it starts to sendeM >an arp REQUEST every 30 seconds. The arp request provides 127.0.0.2 for BOTH C >requestor and requested IP adresses. Is there a meaning for this ?m >jJ >my local lan is set in a 10.0.0.* subnet. Would the VMS arp table contain+ >entries for hosts not on the same subnet ?o   --     Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartelS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:31:17 +0200w- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> = Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-s' Message-ID: <3CA8C395.2440D999@Free.fr>   P AFAIK, DTSS changes the time if is has a DTSS server somewhere. I have... sorry,O I had at work an Alpha satellite in cluster with some other workstations, and IaO quickly disabled DTSS client as I got thousand of error messages saying that noo server was available...r   My two    D.   Bart Zorn wrote: >  > Paul Sture wrote:  > > Dirk Munk wrote: > >f! > >>Jean-Franois PIRONNE wrote:s > >> > >>
 > >>>Hi Paul,  > >>>hU > >>>My VMS station had successfully changed time, and I have the same configuration.i > >>>lQ > >>>You can check if the SYSGEN parameter AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is correctly set to 1.3 > >>>c > >>J > >>Very odd. My V7.3 system has AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV set to 0, and the logicalI > >>SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME is not set, and still the time was changed to DST.SK > >>(DTSS running, and NTP as well, NTP is getting the time from a server).1 > >> > >LK > > Strange. There is something not quite right here. I should perhaps have F > > left DTSS running, or configured it instead of NTP to use the time. > > server. Oh, SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME is defined: >  >         [ . . . ]a > G > AFAIK, when you have DTSS running, it takes control of the clock. NTP I > can't change the time any more. The DST changing just works (well, DTSSnI > just works ;-), and that's why your system changed to DST. However, NTP G > will not adjust the clock any more. Maybe it complains somewhere in ar
 > logfile! >  > Bart Zorn    -- oH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670H 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:31:57 -0800a0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-n, Message-ID: <3CA8533D.4D967E14@Mvb.Saic.Com>  F Well, I certainly to pretend to be Hoff but the following is all there	 is to it:e  ? On any system where DTSS server is installed, you will find then following files:  , $ dir SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS]*ntp*    + Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS]u  ? DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.C;1                   DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.EXE;1a/ RUN_NTP_TP.COM;1    START_DETACHED_NTP_TP.COM;1   2 Place the executable image in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE].G Edit the RUN_NTP_TP.COM file to reflect your NTP servers and then placelC both files in SYS$MANAGER (or SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR], if appropriate).   F Invoke SYS$MANAGER:START_DETACHED_NTP_TP.COM somewhere near the end ofF your VMS startup procedures (which gives the DTSS server itself enough% time to get started and settle down).w  B I've been running this for years.  It not only gives me an instant@ change to/from daylight savings, but it keeps this system's timeF synchronized with no effort on my part and also provides a DTSS server for the rest of my VMS systems.a  
 Mark Berryman0     > Dirk Munk wrote: > I > Yes, that was my impression too. That way we can combine the advantagesgF > of DTSS with the use of a NTP timeserver. Maybe Hoff can tell us how > this is done ? >  > Martin Vorlaender wrote: > - > >Bart Zorn (B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl) wrote:o > >mI > >>AFAIK, when you have DTSS running, it takes control of the clock. NTPg# > >>can't change the time any more.- > >> > >-J > >That is not strictly true. While the NTP TCP/IP service won't work withF > >DTSS in effect (or any other software that tries to use the $SETIMEJ > >system service), one could write a time provider for DTSS that utilizesF > >NTP. AFAIK, this has been done - I just can't remember the details. > >l > >cu, > >  Martiny > >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:54:30 GMTC8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-p3 Message-ID: <aO3q8.1727$fL6.34388@news.cpqcorp.net>8  h In article <4x3q8.1726$fL6.34504@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: ..I >:>>I tried running SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM manually and it did  >:>>not change the time. > D >  I think there was a bug reported (and fixed) in this area.  ThereA >  was definitely a discussion of this -- search for the keywords6E >  daylight_savings and hammond in the old comp.os.vms postings, and  C >  you should find it.  There might be (is?) an ECO available, too.-  < There is a bug in V7.3 *ONLY* (not older or newer versions).  5 The fix is in VMS03_DTSS-V0100 or VMS73_UPDATE-V0100.- (Or so I have been told.)0  C I do not know if the problem reported (did not change the time) is jB attributable to this bug, but this fix SHOULD be installed on V7.3@ systems *BEFORE* running SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM.  The6 version shipped with V7.3 does not do the right thing.   -- oK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:36:16 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-H3 Message-ID: <4x3q8.1726$fL6.34504@news.cpqcorp.net>b  G In article <3CA796D9.9070203@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:v      Please review the OpenVMS FAQ.   :Jean-Franois PIRONNE wrote: :S
 :>Hi Paul, :>D :>My VMS station had successfully changed time, and I have the same  :>configuration. s :>N :>You can check if the SYSGEN parameter AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is correctly set to 1. :>H :Very odd. My V7.3 system has AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV set to 0, and the logical G :SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME is not set, and still the time was changed to DST. yH :(DTSS running, and NTP as well, NTP is getting the time from a server).  E   To get the time to switch, you must be running DTSS or DCE DTSS on -C   older releases (and have it configured to change to/from DST), ormE   you must be running V7.3 and have AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV enabled.  Detailss   are in the FAQ.t  B :>You can also check if the logical SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME is defined.  D   Please do not look directly at the logical names -- please use theE   documented interfaces.  If you look within the DST implementation,  A   you risk making incorrect assumptions -- and the implementation A   tends to be specific to the particular OpenVMS version.  Pleaser?   read the OpenVMS FAQ for details on how to set this stuff up.d  K :>If this logical is not defined then your system is probably not setup for  :>daylight savings time.> :>Enable it using the procedure SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM  3   Correct.  Please see the FAQ for further details.o   :>Jean-Franoise :> :>Paul Sture a crit : :>F :>>Well, my Linux box, alarm radio and video have successfully changed! :>>time, but NOT my VMS Boxes :-(   .   Please pick one of the following approaches:  ;     o read the OpenVMS FAQ, and follow the directions therew  @     o upgrade to the current OpenVMS release and enable auto-DST  B     o search the archives for the "occasional" discussions of this       over the past decades.  B     o please connect the OpenVMS system to the same time-base usedA       by your other devices, and configure OpenVMS to use it. :-)c    H :>>Unfortunately that may mean some boxes at work too, but I have yet toJ :>>confirm that... having implemented NTP recently we had the common senseK :>>not to do it on production until the time change today was seen to work.-  K :>>Situation at home: Alpha VMS 7.3 with TCP/IP 5.1 (with DNVOSIECO01 V7.3)2D :>>I disabled DTSS and have been running NTP. The FAQ talks of a newK :>>mechanism to change time with 7.3, but does not go into detail with 7.3.m  J   I guess I'll have to add that to the FAQ -- pending that update, please D   read the OpenVMS V7.3 documentation, it goes into details on this.  ( :>>The time did not change this morning.  H   And it should not have.  Why?  Well, applications can assume that the J   time is monotomically increasing -- a surpisingly common assumption. :-)M   This is why the NTP and DTSS clocks "drift", and particularly why we don't wK   enable the auto-DST by default -- clearly you believe that your site can iJ   withstand the system time dropping back by one hour, but I expect other H   sites might not have the same flexibility.  We know of customer sites G   that have the time value in index file keys, and the fall DST switch u9   can easily lead to duplicate key errors in these files.i  H :>>I tried running SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM manually and it did :>>not change the time.s  C   I think there was a bug reported (and fixed) in this area.  Therea@   was definitely a discussion of this -- search for the keywordsD   daylight_savings and hammond in the old comp.os.vms postings, and B   you should find it.  There might be (is?) an ECO available, too.  J :>>The FAQ says this about NTP: "(NTP will want to try to "drift" the timeI :>>(see TIME6), and will find the daylight savings time switch-over to be 5 :>>far too large to "drift". Hence the NTP restart.)"s  K   NTP does not handle DST, and does not provide the "ker-chunk" change-over:H   that is expected/required here.   It drifts the time to the new value.E   Further, a one-hour shift is outside the limit for drifting, as NTPoG   (by default) assumes that there is a rogue timeserver active and willeA   (correctly) refuse to process the time-shift of this magnitude. G   Since this is apparently unclear within the current FAQ text, I will oC   attempt to make this rather more clear in the next edition -- onewL   existing reference to this is as follows: "Examples of these applications K   include the need to restart the NFS client and (yes) NTP. (NTP will want  M   to try to "drift" the time (see TIME6), and will find the daylight savings oL   time switch-over to be far too large to "drift". Hence the NTP restart.)".6   I'll add some similar text to the new TIME7 section.    I :>>Situation at work: Alpha VMS 7.2-1H1, TCP/IP V5.0A. DTSS disabled, andoD :>>NTP running. I need to go in to work to see what has happened - IH :>>suspect nothing. On a fine sunny Sunday (yeah - planning lunch on theJ :>>balcony! Even if it does mean putting a coat on), I don't need this :-(  J   Get off V7.2-1H1.   Get to V7.2-2.  Get off TCP/IP V5.0A.   Get to V5.1.  H   If you want automatic change-over of DST, you must upgrade to OpenVMS F   V7.3 and enable the auto-DST stuff, or you must use the DST command H   as procedure described in the FAQ.  You must also have DST and TZ set 5   correctly, using the sequence described in the FAQ.-  H   Again, please review the OpenVMS FAQ.  Once you have read and followedI   the FAQ details and the FAQ instructions -- and if you should continue n:   to have DST-related problems -- then please let me know.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:27:54 GMTA2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-n3 Message-ID: <uh4q8.1729$fL6.34534@news.cpqcorp.net>s  _ In article <3CA8533D.4D967E14@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:d  @ :On any system where DTSS server is installed, you will find the :following files:  :p- :$ dir SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS]*ntp*  : , :Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS] :c@ :DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.C;1                   DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.EXE;10 :RUN_NTP_TP.COM;1    START_DETACHED_NTP_TP.COM;1    G   DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.C was not available for a while, and was only fixedwK   to work with newer NTP in very recent DECnet-Plus kits -- in other words,.H   you will likely find an old and buggy version, no version, or the new K   provider version, depending on which version of DECnet-Plus release (and r+   whether or not DECnet-Plus) is installed.    	--T  M   Starting in OpenVMS V7.3, OpenVMS takes over all DST maintenance functions aI   from DECnet-Plus -- part of the "fun" of this area in previous releasesaI   involved having a collection of Compaq and third-party packages -- all tK   trying to (mis)manage DST.  This includes multiple databases, mechanisms,eH   limitations, and definitions.  It got ugly, too.  The C RTL exited theF   TDF-fray starting with OpenVMS V7.0, TCP/IP Services with V5.0, and <   DECnet-Plus with the V7.3 release and with OpenVMS V7.3...  H   Again, please read and heed the discussion in the FAQ -- I've tried toG   provide one (big) write-up on this, because this topic arises twice a G   year.  Suggestions and updates to this or other FAQ text are welcome  I   -- as I've mentioned elsewhere, I've a new edition of the FAQ underway.r    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:48:52 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>h= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-l/ Message-ID: <3CA8D5C4.8060707@xs4all.nospam.nl>t   Mark Berryman wrote:H > Well, I certainly to pretend to be Hoff but the following is all there > is to it:o > A > On any system where DTSS server is installed, you will find thea > following files: > . > $ dir SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS]*ntp* >  > - > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS]  > A > DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.C;1                   DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP.EXE;1 1 > RUN_NTP_TP.COM;1    START_DETACHED_NTP_TP.COM;16 > 4 > Place the executable image in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE].I > Edit the RUN_NTP_TP.COM file to reflect your NTP servers and then placeoE > both files in SYS$MANAGER (or SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR], if appropriate).o > H > Invoke SYS$MANAGER:START_DETACHED_NTP_TP.COM somewhere near the end ofH > your VMS startup procedures (which gives the DTSS server itself enough' > time to get started and settle down).t > D > I've been running this for years.  It not only gives me an instantB > change to/from daylight savings, but it keeps this system's timeH > synchronized with no effort on my part and also provides a DTSS server! > for the rest of my VMS systems.e >  > Mark Berryman  >  >  >  >>Dirk Munk wrote: >>I >>Yes, that was my impression too. That way we can combine the advantages F >>of DTSS with the use of a NTP timeserver. Maybe Hoff can tell us how >>this is done ? >> >>Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> >>- >>>Bart Zorn (B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl) wrote:e >>>  >>>{I >>>>AFAIK, when you have DTSS running, it takes control of the clock. NTP # >>>>can't change the time any more.  >>>> >>> J >>>That is not strictly true. While the NTP TCP/IP service won't work withF >>>DTSS in effect (or any other software that tries to use the $SETIMEJ >>>system service), one could write a time provider for DTSS that utilizesF >>>NTP. AFAIK, this has been done - I just can't remember the details.  , Yes, there is a DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP module in " SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS].G Mark, care to tell us which version of OpenVMS and TCP/IP services you nD are running? I have used the example program for many years, but it F broke with TCP/IP V5.0. I have discussed this with TCP/IP engineering F and they provided an updated version of the program, which works with  VMS V7.3 and TCP/IP v5.1.   I Engineering said they might put the updated version in the examples with -9 the next version of TCP/IP. Maybe we all should ask them!0   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn<   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:02:01 -0800a0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-m, Message-ID: <3CA87669.1F15D4B2@Mvb.Saic.Com>  - > Yes, there is a DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP module ino$ > SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS].H > Mark, care to tell us which version of OpenVMS and TCP/IP services youE > are running? I have used the example program for many years, but it G > broke with TCP/IP V5.0. I have discussed this with TCP/IP engineering>G > and they provided an updated version of the program, which works withm > VMS V7.3 and TCP/IP v5.1.u  < VMS V7.3 and Multinet V4.4.  I have systems running with theF DTSS$PROVIDER_NTP module that came with VMS V7.1 and some with the one= that came with VMS V7.3 (use the one from V7.3, it's better).$  H I was unaware that these broke with any version of TCP/IP services, they haven't broken with Multinet.   E Doing things the way I do them allows the VMS system to act as a timeoB server using both DTSS and XNTP to the entire corporation.  If youH simply want to sync your VMS system, I'd follow Hoff's advice and follow the FAQ.  
 Mark Berrymane   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 18:55 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) = Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :- , Message-ID: <1APR200218552899@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes...tQ }AFAIK, DTSS changes the time if is has a DTSS server somewhere. I have... sorry,aP }I had at work an Alpha satellite in cluster with some other workstations, and IP }quickly disabled DTSS client as I got thousand of error messages saying that no }server was available... } 	 }My two t }  }D.G  @ If you want a bit of comedy, just enable one of the systems as a> server. Then you'll get error messages about there not being aB "global server" instead (or in addition, particularly if you don't= tell the clients to expect only 1 server). Now that's comedy.-  C (I never did configure a global server, but I suspect that it wouldB@ just complain about there not being a "star system server", thenF "galactic server", then "universal server",  then "whatever-is-bigger-' than-a-universe server", ad infinitum.)t  I The thing is a phenomenal pain in the posterior regions of one's anatomy.T  F NTP, on the other hand, was trivial to set up: put a some lines sayingE "server IP-name" type stuff in some configuration files (one file perAF system, naturally), start it up, and Bob's your uncle.  (Although I doF still get slightly excessive number of messages from it - every time aE node actually starts clearing a new time correction there are severaltE messages about losing synchronization and selecting new synch sourcesoD which typically ends up being, not too surprisingly, the same one itI was already using. The difference is that it is actually working, insteadwG of giving lots of messages and not working. There is probably somethingdE you can put in the config file to make it quieter, or not loose synchsE so often maybe, but I havn't cared enough to track it down as long as H it actually works. Six or eight messages for each node every one to fourC hours isn't so bad. It wouldn't be that much but the XP900 makes antG unusally bad clock: it falls behind by several seconds per day when notvH corrected, possibly as much as a minute on a particularly bad day, which@ is why I wanted to start synchronizing time in the first place.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:10:02 +0200,- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> = Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :- ' Message-ID: <3CA94B3B.11DE03C8@Free.fr>w   Carl Perkins wrote:f  H > NTP, on the other hand, was trivial to set up: put a some lines sayingG > "server IP-name" type stuff in some configuration files (one file pert8 > system, naturally), start it up, and Bob's your uncle.7                                    ********************-% Thank you, I didn't know that one :-)3& In French, we say "et roule ma poule".  N Looks like your NTP stuff is similar to a network time synchronisation system,N as the one I have for my Macintosh. Again, if truth does not come from VMS, it comes from the Mac (re: :-).   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:22:53 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>d= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-b' Message-ID: <3CA94E3E.1FD16F46@Free.fr>e  P People, don't worry, Hoff is not a computer-aided-instruction piece of hardware. I did meet him. He is real :-)  L And I would add that my box runs 7.3. I found yesterday that the time didn'tN change. Thanks to Paul Sture's thread, I ran SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM, IO choosed CET, I said "yes, we have now DST enabled" and Bob became my uncle :-))l   D.     Hoff Hoffman wrote:o    > Please review the OpenVMS FAQ. > Details are in the FAQ.hF > Please read the OpenVMS FAQ for details on how to set this stuff up.) > Please see the FAQ for further details. 7 > read the OpenVMS FAQ, and follow the directions there : > The FAQ talks of a new mechanism to change time with 7.3B > Since this is apparently unclear within the current FAQ text,...C > you must use the DST command as procedure described in the FAQ.   W > You must also have DST and TZ set correctly, using the sequence described in the FAQ. ' > Again, please review the OpenVMS FAQ.zJ > Once you have read and followed the FAQ details and the FAQ instructions   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:07:21 GMT ( From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@attbi.com>( Subject: TCPIP 5.0A no longer supported?9 Message-ID: <tn8q8.4328$Ba.3268103@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>   J I called in for help with an FTP problem last week and was told that there
 was basicallyoG nothing they could do since engineering no longer supports TCPIP V5.0A.A  E This caught me by surprise.  Has anyone seen this mentioned anywhere?A   Regards, Tomh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 07:42:41 +0200t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.0A no longer supported?& Message-ID: <3CA944D1.5040801@home.nl>  G Could wel be. TCPIP V5.0A is a part of VMS V7.2-1, and that version is g( (or will be) no longer supported either.B An upgrade to VMS V7.2.2, which is basically V7.2.1 with a lot of 3 patches, will also include a upgrade to TCPIP V5.1.   : There are two supported VMS 7.x versions, V7.2.2 and V7.3.   Regards, Dirk   Tom Simpson wrote:  K >I called in for help with an FTP problem last week and was told that there  >was basicallyH >nothing they could do since engineering no longer supports TCPIP V5.0A. >aF >This caught me by surprise.  Has anyone seen this mentioned anywhere? >o	 >Regards,i >Tom >p >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:04:23 -0800o0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <3CA84CC7.7307C067@Mvb.Saic.Com>   John Smith wrote:  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca... > > K > > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines and eliminate 8 > > product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. > >tL > > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain a good@ > > portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way. > >aF > > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the
 > integrationaG > > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoffs > additionalM > > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus onw > itsh > > core incompetancies. > L > The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it first isK > that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that are sold toeI > run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase has killedhL > their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. Informix doesn't. IngresJ > doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number > are.   [remainder snipped]i  H I can't speak for the others but Ingres runs on the VMS V7.3 system just a few doors down from me.l  
 Mark Berrymana   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 14:09:56 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-643 Message-ID: <xIqrX2Xe1pJk@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  _ In article <3CA84CC7.7307C067@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:e ]> John Smith wrote:  M >> The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it first istL >> that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that are sold toJ >> run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase has killedM >> their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. Informix doesn't. IngresiK >> doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number  >> are.  >  > [remainder snipped]o > J > I can't speak for the others but Ingres runs on the VMS V7.3 system just > a few doors down from me.  >  > Mark Berrymans  < That may just be that you have scared it into submission :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 19:43:31 -0000>= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>oN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-646 Message-ID: <20020401194331.12942.qmail@gacracker.org>  8 On 1 Apr 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:   <snip>  G >the only customers that would migrate from vms to any other hp productd >would be fools and idiots!t  J C'mon Bob! It's clear you're another of us VMS bigots, but many people areK in the position of having to make, or accept, decisions such as a migrationc	 from VMS.   H As I see it, the biggest problem with VMS is the perceived commitment ofJ the current, and potential owners. Compaq should be shot for their failureG to market the OS, and HP have been silent about it suggesting they willi follow this lead.t  I Calling someone an idiot for suggesting a migration from a platform whichr8 is not promoted on its strengths is far from reasonable.     Doc. -- >6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netp   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:14:00 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>tN Subject: RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,g  > Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.  1 Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)h< http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=3D915 CA IngresH http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -F potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high! availability features of OpenVMS)tE http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htm  Mimer/OpenVMS Guide-C http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.html Cache on OpenVMSdC benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their plans to support- OpenVMS on Itanium as well)r   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.f Professional Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20f Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64C      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca... >SB > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines and=20@ > eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. >OH > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain a=20C > good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way.1 > D > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the integrationrE > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoff 
 additionalH > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus   > on itsn > core incompetancies.  G The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it first-D is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that areH sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase hasA killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. InformixdF doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number are.  D So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.H Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64@ etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another averageH performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. OnceG Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOLcG the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers tooH new customers =3D no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle or Rdb =3D no VMS.-  D You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CAF would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.  F Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendB over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:35:02 GMT0# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64H Message-ID: <Wv3q8.22993$dVT.21769@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you aL license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost like tryingL to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you want a reliable web server.*          6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. John,   > Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.  1 Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)t: http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=915 CA IngresH http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -F potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high! availability features of OpenVMS)DE http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htm  Mimer/OpenVMS GuidehC http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.html Cache on OpenVMSiC benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their plans to supporte OpenVMS on Itanium as well)v   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Corp.r Professional Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660> Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComnH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64>      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca... > ? > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines ands@ > eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. > E > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain aoC > good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way.u >cD > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the integrationME > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoffV
 additionalH > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus   > on its  > core incompetancies.  G The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it firstdD is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that areH sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase hasA killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. Informix F doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number are.  D So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.H Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64@ etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another averageH performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. OnceG Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOLaG the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers tosF new customers = no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle or
 Rdb = no VMS.g  D You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CAF would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.  F Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendB over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:44:48 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> N Subject: RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,   G >>> It's almost like trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS2/ when you say you want a reliable web server.<<<s   Hey, that's easy.=20  > CSWS, OSU or WASD .. And perhaps even Purveyor (right Bob?)=20  D CSWS offers Galaxy shared memory support and file system support forG saving state information, apache$specifc and apache$common cluster fileh access etc.=20  D Put a rack of DS10's in place and change 1 file in apache$common andE they automatically all take advantage of this as it is the same file.aC For server specific files, put the file in apache$specific. Put twoGG racks in place for multi-site load balancing (one at each site) againstv= a multi-site, load balanced active-active clustered database.o   Surely you knew this - right?o   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Corp.v Professional Services- Voice: 613-592-4660i Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20e Sent: April 1, 2002 3:35 PM" To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-H Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64h    F Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you aE license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost likemH trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you want a reliable web server.          6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .e John,e  > Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.  1 Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)l< http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=3D915 CA IngresH http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -F potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high! availability features of OpenVMS)oE http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htmtF Mimer/OpenVMS Guide http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.htmlC Cache on OpenVMS benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their , plans to support OpenVMS on Itanium as well)   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.n Professional Services, Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-643      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca... >sB > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines and=20@ > eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. >yH > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain a=20C > good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way.u >.D > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the integration E > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoffV
 additionalH > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus   > on its0 > core incompetancies.  G The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it firstlD is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that areH sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase hasA killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. InformixtF doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number are.  D So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.H Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64@ etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another averageH performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. OnceG Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOL G the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers tohH new customers =3D no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle or Rdb =3D no VMS.o  D You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CAF would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.  F Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendB over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:07:37 -0500m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <3CA8CBFD.954A1E3F@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:J >         The VMS user base is 10 times the size of MPE.  HP/Compaq surelyB >         wouldn't want to generate 10 times as many Tim O'Neills.  H Digital's "Affinity" achieved one big goal: get rid of the remaining VMSA customers who could easily and quickly migrate and leave Digital.   L What is left of the active VMS customer base is a relatively small number of@ large sites with big investments in VMS hardware/infrastructure.  N Now, june 25 has made the hardware investment moot is is forcing all remainingL customers to consider their future. Those are the customers who survived theK first wave of exodus in the early 90s, and the Palmer Affinity campaign. Sos0 they are not likely to be so emotional about it.  H What was most significant about June 25 was that Compaq visited its mostC valued customers to inform them of the news and hand-hold them withgI <speculation> sufficient "incentives" to help them with the transition tooL Intel's slower chip. And Compaq was able to claim that most of its customers! were happy with the Alpha murder.   N If Compaq now thinks it has found a way to handle customers in such a way thatK they will stay even with bad news, then killing VMS no longer means instantsB loss of the customers who matter (eg: generate those VMS profits).  N Also, remember that killing VMS next week, doesn't mean VMS stops working nextJ week. It might involve a few more versions while VMS goodies are ported toM Tandem and Unix. And it might involve lots of incentives to help the valuabledI VMS customers move to the new platform and finally get peace of mind thato their investment is now safe.t  K Carly mentioned a 3 year roadplan. One possibility is that VMS will survivetL those 3 years, giving HP time to consolidate its Unix platforms, after which it may then deal with VMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 15:29:01 -0600i+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)fN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-643 Message-ID: <RqKZkTHvI7jF@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  \ In article <3CA8CBFD.954A1E3F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > > And it might involve lots of incentives to help the valuableK > VMS customers move to the new platform and finally get peace of mind thatt > their investment is now safe.e  2 	It is about $$$, in several different directions:  Z http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=qlrYXXqIesv3%40eisner.encompasserve.org&output=gplain  6 	Can I have another go at this from a different angle?  9 	Stealing a line .... reminds me of a Clinton saying fromp= 	recent history:  "For the chilrun"  Meaning, let's set asidelA 	reason and hold to a cause.  Never mind business sense, "we love1@ 	our customers so much we want to do what is absolutely best forC 	them."  BARF!  That doesn't work from a couple angles and I'm sureJ= 	the MPE folks have some opinion... how about a few wrinkles:f  = 		1)  If they didn't want to be on MPE , they would have left  			it long ago.v  ; 		2)  It will affect your balance sheet one way or another,t/ 			to say you are ignoring the balance sheet isr. 			disingenuous at best.  You are in business.  @ 		3)  What about customers spending large sums of money to come : 			off major MPE custom applications that have worked well2 			for a couple decades.  OH... I GET it!  As long$ 			as it isn't *your* balance sheet!  ; 		4)  The hope is to save as many as they can and keep themy4 			as HP customers.  The real downer is a percentage' 			will go away mad , like this fellow:     ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275878.htmls  M "In my agency within the U.S. Department of Defense, we make extensive use of-L HP 3000 systems," said Tim O'Neill, of the U.S. Army's Aberdeen Test Center.N "One certainty for our agency is that if they eliminate the 3000, we will then% act to eliminate our 9000s as well.  u  O "If HP thinks we will 'migrate' from MPE to HP-UX, they are mistaken," he said, I referring to the operating systems associated with the two server lines. e  A 	Sour grapes on his part?  Maybe he isn't relishing all the extrac7 	work ($$$) involved to come off MPE.  See 3) above.       ===p  C 	They could *give* the hardware away and free assistance in portingd? 	but Mr. O'Neill won't be placated.  He is going to spend a lotl- 	of his (Army's) own money coming off of MPE.   ? 	For entrenched applications that are OS ingrained, there isn'taE 	an easy migration path.  If what you are using has been working welllA 	for 5, 10, 20 years you certainly don't get excited about comingi= 	off of it.  Especially if it gains you little, and costs yout$ 	a boatload of money in the process.   	And so while you say:  > > And it might involve lots of incentives to help the valuableK > VMS customers move to the new platform and finally get peace of mind thatl > their investment is now safe.0  = 	Most folks don't get excited if the salesman is throwing in  A 	a free oil change as an incentive to tempt you to buy a new car,f= 	as your old one "sure looks old" (but runs fine).  But it istC 	actually worse than that, as you can't get the old engine repairedwC 	any more and actually have to switch cars.  So instead of spendingt< 	$50000 to get a new "engine" to keep running your old apps,> 	you have to spend $2.9 million to get your old apps to run onB 	totally foreign hardware/engine.  Make up your own silly analogy.  D 	But from my perspective.... that is exactly where Tim O'Neill is at@ 	today and why the very strong disincentive to stay with HP kit.? 	If he is going to spend millioins and inform senior managementiB 	he *MUST* spend millions, he is no doubt going to recommend going: 	to someone other than HP... and if it is his decision, HPG 	must shudder at the thought of him (and folks like him) showing up in u6 	the press detailing their migration away from HP kit.   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:11:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <3CA8DB09.6BAFDD20@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:Q > "If HP thinks we will 'migrate' from MPE to HP-UX, they are mistaken," he said,nJ > referring to the operating systems associated with the two server lines.  K Yes, that is the initial reaction. But when you look at what is left of themL active VMS customer list, I suspect that the initial "fuck HP" reaction willL be replaced by accountants telling them that HP still provides the best bangG for the buck especially with whatever deals HP will provide to make theo transition easier.  M And in the cases where the corporation has few VMS systems and lots of HP andaK Compaq gear, the "Fuck HP" reaction by the VMS department may not have muchnC impact because the corporation has too much HP/Compaq gear in othere/ departments to warrant the "fuck HP" mentality.f  K The big question is whether the integration team had access to each other's F customer lists to evaluate what percentage of VMS customers have large@ investments in HP and Compaq gear, as well as the Digital stuff.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:07:19 GMT6# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64H Message-ID: <rS4q8.23337$dVT.11849@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Kerry,  K I know all this.  I've been using VMS since 1980, and other DEC gear beforei that.d  K The issue I'm grousing about is the fact that when a customer comes calling L on Compaq for a reliable, cost effective solution, it's Proliant and WindowsJ that's the first solution shown, then perhaps (in the past now) Tru64, and finally VMS, in that order.d  A You, and a very *small* number of your Compaq cohorts are in fact J knowledgeable enough to discuss in an intelligent manner the merits of VMSI with prospective and current customers, But there aren't enough of you tof sustain the product.  L Without the critical mass of installed sites, new sales to a wide and variedH customer base, no sane ISV is going to spend the money to develop/market apps/tools for VMS.o  J It isn't enough to have 400 'global' accounts, because the global accountsH all want the ISV's to bend over on pricing. ISV's need a large number ofL unrelated customers who can't rape them. Unfortuantely, that means they relyL on Compaq to get VMS systems in the door in the first place, and with CompaqH not doing that in a serious way we get caught in the vicious 'what comesH first' cycle. No apps = no VMS sales, no VMS sales = no apps. In far tooK many app/tool categories, users have only 1 choice rather than the plethora0# of apps/tools available under unix.o  G Look, I greatly appreciate ALL you do in this ng, and I'm sure that youaI carry yourself with the same dignity and professionalism in your dealings_F with every customer and prospect you encounter. I just wish Compaq hadF 10,000 more like you who would sell VMS diligently. I wish that CompaqH understood that there is a huge number of former VMS customers who wouldL come back if they had some real belief that they weren't going to be shafted if they did. That's the rub.      6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. John,0  G >>> It's almost like trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMSn/ when you say you want a reliable web server.<<<    Hey, that's easy..  ; CSWS, OSU or WASD .. And perhaps even Purveyor (right Bob?)v  D CSWS offers Galaxy shared memory support and file system support forG saving state information, apache$specifc and apache$common cluster fileu access etc.t  D Put a rack of DS10's in place and change 1 file in apache$common andE they automatically all take advantage of this as it is the same file. C For server specific files, put the file in apache$specific. Put twonG racks in place for multi-site load balancing (one at each site) against,= a multi-site, load balanced active-active clustered database.t   Surely you knew this - right?    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] Sent: April 1, 2002 3:35 PMA To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComnH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64D    F Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you aE license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost likesH trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you want a reliable web server.          6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .O John,   > Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.  1 Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)f: http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=915 CA IngresH http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -F potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high! availability features of OpenVMS)sE http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htmiF Mimer/OpenVMS Guide http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.htmlC Cache on OpenVMS benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their:, plans to support OpenVMS on Itanium as well)   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant1 Compaq Canada Corp.A Professional Services. Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64f      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca... >=? > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines ando@ > eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. >sE > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain a C > good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way.i > D > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the integrationyE > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoffo
 additionalH > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus   > on itsy > core incompetancies.  G The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it firsttD is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that areH sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase hasA killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. Informix F doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number are.  D So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.H Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64@ etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another averageH performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. OnceG Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOLwG the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers tomF new customers = no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle or
 Rdb = no VMS.b  D You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CAF would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.  F Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendB over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:09:17 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64C Message-ID: <xM5q8.374181$uv5.31693136@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>a  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:3EGIGrzIH3go@eisner.encompasserve.org...y7 > In article <3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > John Smith wrote:eJ > >> Killing VMS is one of those things that doesn't make sense, but I bet it'lld > >> happen anyway.= > > K > > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines and eliminates8 > > product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. > > L > > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain a good@ > > portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way. > >rF > > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the integrationiG > > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layofff
 additionalJ > > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus on its > > core incompetancies. >a >o; > It doesn't make sense no matter how you slice it.  Again:o >t >uL http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=qlrYXXqIesv3%40eisner.encompasserve.org &output=gplain  C Citing one of your own posts doesn't increase the authority of your  argument, I'm afraid.M   ...d  + > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275878.htmla >oL > "In my agency within the U.S. Department of Defense, we make extensive use ofF > HP 3000 systems," said Tim O'Neill, of the U.S. Army's Aberdeen Test Center.AK > "One certainty for our agency is that if they eliminate the 3000, we willO then% > act to eliminate our 9000s as well.  >rK > "If HP thinks we will 'migrate' from MPE to HP-UX, they are mistaken," het said,SJ > referring to the operating systems associated with the two server lines. >vB > Sour grapes on his part?  Maybe he isn't relishing all the extra5 > work ($$$) involved to come off MPE.  See 3) above.  >a > ===S >rB > The VMS user base is 10 times the size of MPE.  HP/Compaq surely: > wouldn't want to generate 10 times as many Tim O'Neills.  L Surely?  Given that Compaq has likely *already* generated well over 10 timesD as many Tim O'Neills by first scrubbing NT on Alpha (after earnestlyI affirming its long-term commitment) - plus the attendant loss of Win64 on-J Alpha, then scrubbing Alpha itself (after, of course, even more earnestly,K repeatedly, and publicly affirming its long-term commitment), then enteringiI into a merger/buy-out which guarantees that yet more of its product linesaD will be 'pruned' from the resulting entity, and finally (despite itsI assurances that the merger wouldn't change any of the consequences of theaL Alphacide deal) announcing that Tru64 wouldn't be ported to Itanic after allL (hence that it would die along with Alpha), your absolute conviction that itL wouldn't alienate its customers yet again seems somewhat difficult to find a
 basis for.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 20:06:20 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)eN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-643 Message-ID: <KfgcOC+hxWHw@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  \ In article <3CA8DB09.6BAFDD20@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  C > But when you look at what is left of the active VMS customer listo  ? 	Oh... you mean that tiny group that makes up nearly $4 billions? 	in total revs and several hundred million in profit each year?h   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 20:13:47 -0600e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)eN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-643 Message-ID: <ibBFTz6dkDqx@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  p In article <xM5q8.374181$uv5.31693136@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >     , >> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275878.html >>M >> "In my agency within the U.S. Department of Defense, we make extensive used > ofG >> HP 3000 systems," said Tim O'Neill, of the U.S. Army's Aberdeen Teste	 > Center.yL >> "One certainty for our agency is that if they eliminate the 3000, we will > then& >> act to eliminate our 9000s as well. >>L >> "If HP thinks we will 'migrate' from MPE to HP-UX, they are mistaken," he > said,@K >> referring to the operating systems associated with the two server lines.9 >>C >> Sour grapes on his part?  Maybe he isn't relishing all the extraa6 >> work ($$$) involved to come off MPE.  See 3) above. >> >> === >>C >> The VMS user base is 10 times the size of MPE.  HP/Compaq surelyf; >> wouldn't want to generate 10 times as many Tim O'Neills.  > N > Surely?  Given that Compaq has likely *already* generated well over 10 timesF > as many Tim O'Neills by first scrubbing NT on Alpha (after earnestly& > affirming its long-term commitment)   4 	I came across one Alpha NT box in the last 6 years.B 	How many people were actually using it?  Any idea about installed@ 	base size?  It couldn't have amounted to much and probably made- 	the decision to scratch it that much easier.t   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:21:14 -0500w1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>eN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-642 Message-ID: <3CA9159A.3B0A32A1@firstdbasource.com>   Rob Young wrote:= >         I came across one Alpha NT box in the last 6 years.tK >         How many people were actually using it?  Any idea about installednI >         base size?  It couldn't have amounted to much and probably madea6 >         the decision to scratch it that much easier.    B At one time, a very large company that got their start in DelawareE making gun powder was head down the AlphaNT road whole-hog.  then theeD rug got ripped out from under them...  Now they are primarily Compaq2 WiNTel. (and a few VAXES and Alphas running OVMS).   --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #26116377 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)3 704-236-4377 (Mobile)O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:07:21 -0800e' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>e) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planse+ Message-ID: <3CA8AFE9.705150EA@caltech.edu>m   Jakob Erber wrote: > 3 > We are also planning to migrate to Tru64, resons:s% > 1) End of support for Sybase on VMSe? > 2) End of support for Ada83 on VMS after migration to Itaniumx > M > we asume, that porting from Tru64 to what UNIX comes after the merger, willl > not be such a big effort.d   You're kidding, right?  $ Why migrate twice when once will do?  E Tru64 is already under the wheels of the truck - merger or no merger.E  G Unless you absolutely must recycle the existing high end Alpha hardware G you'd (both) be much better off moving to AIX, Solaris, or HPUX.  (Even5% Linux, if that will do it for you.)  e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:09:12 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansl& Message-ID: <3CA8B058.8030603@home.nl>   Jakob Erber wrote:  2 >We are also planning to migrate to Tru64, resons:$ >1) End of support for Sybase on VMS> >2) End of support for Ada83 on VMS after migration to Itanium >cL >we asume, that porting from Tru64 to what UNIX comes after the merger, will >not be such a big effort. >a  H You could be very wrong there. Just the effort it can take to move from H one sub-version of a Unix OS to another of the same OS (incl Tru64) can E be quite enough to forget all those plans for a VMS > Unix migration.i   >  >g
 >best regardss >  >Jakob >t; >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:.. >pgtgau0ljqcn9ndlcltv91rls04rr5gv2p@4ax.com... >eD >>On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) >>wrote: >> >>[posted and mailed]s >>D >>>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 ClusterI >>>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0 F >>>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or; >>>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanksn >>> A >>Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to G >>migrate to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away?oH >>Last I checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish inF >>favour of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd beC >>inclined to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's H >>recent behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but >>start a migration now? >>E >>Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustmC >>Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something criticalt
 >>missing? >>2 >>Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at: >> >>M >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_ARCHITE 
 >CTURE.RAM >n >>-- >>Alan >> >e >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:58:36 +0200a From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansb& Message-ID: <3CA8BBEC.6040807@home.nl>  I The problem is most likely the absence of Oracle Forms 6.0 or 6i on VMS.  H You will have to go for a web enabled application. That's fine, because G that is what Oracle wants anyhow, but many software developers are not n ready yet for such a migration.a   Alan Greig wrote:   C >On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston)7 >wrote:  >m >[posted and mailed] >sC >>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 ClusteroH >>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0E >>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this orc: >>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks >> >g@ >Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want toF >migrate to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away?G >Last I checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish iniE >favour of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd bemB >inclined to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq'sG >recent behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but  >start a migration now?f >uD >Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustB >Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical	 >missing?e >t1 >Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at:  >iV >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_ARCHITECTURE.RAM >--  >Alane >n   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2002 20:04:06 GMT' From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planse) Message-ID: <a8aefm$ar6$2@nyheter.crt.se>   A In comp.os.vms Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:' > Jakob Erber wrote: >> o4 >> We are also planning to migrate to Tru64, resons:& >> 1) End of support for Sybase on VMS@ >> 2) End of support for Ada83 on VMS after migration to Itanium >>  N >> we asume, that porting from Tru64 to what UNIX comes after the merger, will >> not be such a big effort. >> g    D > And you could be wrong... moving between Unixes is not as straightI > forward as it seems.  Did you know for instance, that due to this fact,l  E Moving with the right tools and proper made code is not that painful.b  R Have a look at all those Open Software projects that only needs a ./configure;make> if you want argements. And some of them are quite complex too.  I > Oracle has a porting team for each platform.  And since the baseline is4J > Sun Solaris, everything else is sometimes weeks or months behind becauseF > of the difficulty in doing those "other" ports. Unix != Unix.  Never2 > has. Never will. -- and the same goes for Linux.  W Again, throwing code together is one thing. Creating a portable and standards-compliantf piece of software(art) another.a  G > Sybase has been in bad shape for a long time.. a lot of people I knowa2 > wonder how long they will be able to hang on....     >> best regardsn >> n >> Jakob > -- h
 > Regards,  9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163s9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comh > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)l > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)n     --   Peter Hkanson         iK         IPSec  Sverige      (At the Riverside of Gothenburg, home of Volvo)-J            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out.& 	   Remove "icke-reklam" and it works.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:35:29 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>n) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Alan,h  @ Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMSG (available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platform. -'  H The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC =3D Oracle Parallel Server) isH direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT platformsH is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of dealing with raw devices etc.  G Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file system E for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch,f- print queues, user files, config files etc ..9   :-)n  F Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in aH multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick in.F We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now because of8 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects.=20  @ Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site.  
 Reference:: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/  > Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need fullC read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all2D sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests? across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume aeB active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS offers.t  H Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle 9i. RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.n Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----/ From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]=20i Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planst    B On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) wrote:   [posted and mailed]   E >We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster=20uJ >environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0=20G >running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or=20i9 >similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks   G Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to migratepD to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last IF checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favourF of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined? to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent G behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start ae migration now?  C Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustOA Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something criticale missing?  0 Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at:  H http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_ARC
 HITECTURE.RAMr -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:40:33 +0200a From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansn& Message-ID: <3CA8D3D1.1070800@home.nl>  E That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional Oracle vE Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of -H support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or you H need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is I a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need to sG migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 or a? Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !!<  I Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at the i moment).   Regards,   Dirk     Main, Kerry wrote:   >Alan, >gA >Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMS H >(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platform >- >sG >The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC = Oracle Parallel Server) ismI >direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT platformsoI >is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of dealing with  >raw devices etc.r >sH >Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file systemF >for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch,. >print queues, user files, config files etc .. >m >:-) >fG >Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in aoI >multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick in.?G >We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now because ofe7 >9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects.   >rA >Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site.8 >h >Reference:I; >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/t >i? >Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need fullyD >read-write access to all the database files from all servers in allE >sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requestsa@ >across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume aC >active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMSs >offers. >iI >Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle 9il/ >RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment.m >f	 >Regards,  >a >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036m >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.come >  >v >-----Original Message-----r. >From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]  >Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >t >aC >On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston)o >wrote:n >r >[posted and mailed] > D >>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster I >>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0 lF >>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or : >>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks >> >aH >Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to migrateE >to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last IiG >checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favouriG >of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined @ >to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recentH >behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start a >migration now?4 >eD >Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustB >Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical	 >missing?  >u1 >Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at:u >mI >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_ARCs >HITECTURE.RAM >--s >Alanh >r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:56:17 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>m) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansuT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFA@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Dirk,T  F Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps onE OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) toiH use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced Oracle OPS back end on OpenVMS.=20m  A If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fullyiD protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as theD back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail overD only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers on0 OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database.  C Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have int, place and how much availability you require.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional ServicesE Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]=20 Sent: April 1, 2002 4:41 PMy To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comk) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans     G That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional Oracle=20iG Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of=20eJ support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or you=20J need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is=20H a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need to  I migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 or=20t? Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !!   H Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at the   moment).   Regards,   Dirk     Main, Kerry wrote:   >Alan, >nD >Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMS=20H >(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platform >- >aH >The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC =3D Oracle Parallel Server) = is=20 B >direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT=20I >platforms is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of=20g >dealing with raw devices etc. >oH >Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file system  I >for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch,=20t. >print queues, user files, config files etc .. >  >:-) >wJ >Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in a=20H >multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick=20H >in. We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now because  9 >of 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects.h >uA >Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site.T >4F >Reference: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/ > B >Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need full=20G >read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all=20 H >sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests=20C >across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume a=20 F >active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS=20 >offers. > I >Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle=20i2 >9i RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment. >i	 >Regards,a >g >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036j >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com  >n >  >-----Original Message-----@- >From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]p >Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AMs >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >  > C >On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston)  >wrote:  >e >[posted and mailed] > C >>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster H >>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0  H >>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or=20: >>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks >> >kH >Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to migrate  H >to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last I=20J >checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favour=20J >of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined=20C >to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent=20eH >behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start a   >migration now?I >oG >Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trust=20tE >Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical=20y	 >missing?) >a1 >Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at:w >sH >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_AR >C >HITECTURE.RAM >--t >Alann >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:29:39 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans & Message-ID: <3CA94FD3.7050703@home.nl>  D Again, that is all true. But no matter which of these solutions one D takes, the simple matter remains that it is not possible to setup a I simple bread-and -butter Oracle application on VMS anymore, the same way wF as you would do it with Unix. And that is a very, very weak point for B VMS. Try to explain this to customers, account managers, software - developers etc. Almost impossible I'm afraid.   G And what is even worse, try to find some kind of manual or white paper  H telling you how to set up Oracle applications on VMS in this situation. I There is nothing there, not from Oracle, not from Compaq. Customers have nG to find out for themselves. We do get nice letters from Oracle telling wI us that their products will be supported on VMS, but this problem is not  ? addressed. Doesn't this sound like a marketing problem to you ?@  B For (upgrade) customers the present situation looks like a doctor I telling his patient in a cheerful way "Hey, we will take away your legs, oB but have you seen those smart wheelchairs they have these days ?".   Regards,   Dirk    e   Main, Kerry wrote:   >Dirk, >hG >Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps ongF >OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) toI >use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced Oracle  >OPS back end on OpenVMS.  >vB >If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fullyE >protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as theyE >back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail overlE >only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers ono1 >OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database.t >uD >Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have in- >place and how much availability you require.o >h	 >Regards,  >  >Kerry Maint >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036- >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com  >p >0 >-----Original Message-----c' >From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] r >Sent: April 1, 2002 4:41 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >n >rF >That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional Oracle F >Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of I >support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or you  I >need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is iI >a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need toi >bH >migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 or @ >Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !! > I >Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at thet >e	 >moment).h >o	 >Regards,  >o >Dirk; >e >f >Main, Kerry wrote:A >s >>Alan,e >>C >>Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMS .I >>(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platforme >>-r >>I >>The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC = Oracle Parallel Server) is !A >>direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT  H >>platforms is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of  >>dealing with raw devices etc.r >>I >>Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file systeme >> >kH >>for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch, / >>print queues, user files, config files etc ..h >> >>:-)  >>I >>Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in a wG >>multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick 3I >>in. We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now becausee >> >A: >>of 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects. >>B >>Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site. >>G >>Reference: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/, >>A >>Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need full nF >>read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all G >>sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests uB >>across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume a E >>active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS '	 >>offers.  >>H >>Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle 3 >>9i RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment.a >>
 >>Regards, >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultanth >>Compaq Canada Corp.h >>Professional Servicesr >>Voice: 613-592-4660r >>Fax  :  819-772-7036 >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >> >> >>-----Original Message-----. >>From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] >>Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn+ >>Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansu >> >>D >>On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) >>wrote: >> >>[posted and mailed]k >>D >>>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 ClusterI >>>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0t >>>  >eG >>>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or p; >>>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thankse >>>iI >>Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to migrates >> >eG >>to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last I WI >>checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favour  I >>of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined lB >>to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent I >>behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start aC >> >o >>migration now? >>F >>Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trust D >>Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical 
 >>missing? >>2 >>Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at: >>I >>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_AR5 >>C0 >>HITECTURE.RAMv >>-- >>Alan >> >)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 06:47:29 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)n) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansa5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-3d0YkMLp1vHq@localhost>y  D On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:16:57 UTC, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>  wrote:  % > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, JF Mezei wrote:a >  > > Jakob Erber wrote:7 > > > We are also planning to migrate to Tru64, resons:)) > > > 1) End of support for Sybase on VMScC > > > 2) End of support for Ada83 on VMS after migration to Itaniumf > > >-Q > > > we asume, that porting from Tru64 to what UNIX comes after the merger, willa > > > not be such a big effort.s > >nP > > Since Alpha will live until at least the start of a reasonable IA64 box, whyO > > not wait a year or two to see how the whole Compaq fisco pans out, at whichOQ > > point you will be in a much better position to decide what is the best targete > > for your port. > H > Why postpone the inevitable??  The datacenter here started considering> > alternatives within days of the announcement of Alpha's EOL. >  > >-P > > Furthermore, if you wait before starting your port, you will then be dealingP > > with an HP that will be under pressure not to lose customers and may be in aF > > better position to get better prices for your forced move to Unix. > K > That assumes customers who are displeased with Compaq are not going to beu > equally displeased with HP.m >  > >nO > > Secondly, since Tru64 is deader than VMS at this point in time, assume that 2 > > Sybase support on Tru64 will drop quickly too. > >u > K > I must admit, considering that Tru64 already has been announced as having K > no future and VMS is still just an unknown, I can't understand why anyonea > would move in that direction.   / Because you've got the hardware already, maybe.3   -- e Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.181 ************************