1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 02 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 182       Contents: RE: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/2002 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel API for FTP  Re: API for FTP  Re: API for FTP  Re: API for FTP  Re: API for FTP + Compaqworkinggroup.org, new authentication? / Re: Compaqworkinggroup.org, new authentication?  Re: Corrupt SYSIOSDEF.TLB ' DDTMBUG  x CRASH x MAXPROCESSCNT  . . .  Re: DECC$RTLDEF.TLB question Re: DECC$RTLDEF.TLB question Re: File IO query.4 Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...) FW: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 FW: Memory Channel vs. CI * Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.* Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems./ Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"? / Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"? F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS Re: Memory Channel vs. CI  Re: Memory Channel vs. CI 	 Re: mysql 	 Re: mysql ) RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it + Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1 + RE: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1 / Re: RE: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1 + Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1 + Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1 4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-4 Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-# Re: TCPIP 5.0A no longer supported?  TELNETSYM ErrorsE Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64  VAX6000 Survey at OpenVMS.org   Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansP Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class CluP Re: White paper now available - Total Cost of Ownership for Enter prise Class Cl( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 04:05:05 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: RE: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 @ Message-ID: <20020402120505.92733.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>   Dijk    / I changed the shelfs ! I believe it is the lack 4 of terminator in the internal cable. I must look for3 it in some store, but as the server is in my family 4 apartment, 200 km from me (my job), I will try again just in two weeks !      Regards    FC  5 --- "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>  wrote:/ > You didn't see the disk, so place the disk on  > another place in the internal  > shelf. > 6 > Or buy an external scsi disk and boot from that one. > 3 > PKA0 is the internal scsi adapter and the PKB0 is  > the external.  > " > To boot type >>> boot dka400 0,0 > or >>> boot dka100 0,0 >  >  > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fabio Cardoso # > [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br] % > > Sent: vrijdag 29 maart 2002 23:07  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > > Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/200  > >  > > 	 > > David  > >  > > I will check the CDROM.... > >  > >  > > My >>> SHOW DEVICE shows me  > > 
 > > DKA400 > > DVA0 > > EWA0 > > PKA0 > > PKB0 > >  > > just these devices  !!!! > >  > >  > > Regards  > >  > > FC  3 > > --- "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  > wrote: > > > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > > > 2 > > > > Today I began the installation of my Alpha > 1000 > > > 4/200 % > > > > at home - my hobbist machine.  > > > > 3 > > > > It looks like ok, but it is not recognizing 2 > > > > my unique 2GB boot disk. So I ask you much > more2 > > > > experienced with this machine: Do I need a > > > terminator? / > > > > I opened the machine and didnt find any  > terminator > > > in. > > > > the SCSI cable (connection backplane). > > > > 5 > > > > The CD-ROM is DKA400. I believe the disk must  > be
 > > > DKA04 > > > > because it was configured in the SRM as boot > disk.  > > > # > > > What display do you get from:  > > >  > > > P0>>> SHOW DEVICE  > > > 6 > > > > As I received ii without any terminator I dont
 > > > know& > > > > if it is internal or external. > > > 4 > > > Maybe one or the other SCSI device is jumpered > for  > > > termination (check. > > > the CD-ROM - had that one happen to me). > > > 	 > > > --   > > > David J. Dachtera  > > > dba DJE Systems  > > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > > . > > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:% > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > >  > > 	 > > =====  > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > > 6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?1 > > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for  > Easter, Passover > > http://greetings.yahoo.com/  > >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?/ Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax  http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:56:53 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 ) Message-ID: <3CA9C6B5.23604169@127.0.0.1>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > A > In the AS 1000 series of servers, the SCSI address of any disks B > in the internal disk shelf is hard wired in the shelf backplane. > ? > DKA400 (the CD) is not one of the hard wired addresses in the @ > storage shelf. Now, if someone have opened the disk container,C > unpluged the address selection cable and then put jumpers in it's B > place, yes, you can get a address conflict. But this wouldn't be: > the first thing someone with a AS1000 should have to do. > F > I'd open the box and find out how the thing is actualy cabled. ThereE > is two SCSI controlers istalled, so if the cables are in place, and G > there is a working, supported disk installed, SHO DEV should show it.   A I'm not an expert here, but I'm fairly sure there are two ways of  cabling the storage.  F The internally mounted storageworks shelf has a disabled section whereC the CDROM ID should be, you can enable it, but it also disables the D CDROM of course. I believe there are some jumpers on the back of theF shelf backplane, but I'm not sure how intuitive they are. I think they3 can also be used to split the shelf in two as well.   B I've not helped here I know, I've probably added more to consider.D Discovered by a colleagues numerous frustrated attempts to get a TLZ' working in the lower part of the shelf.    Perhaps this'll help?   . http://www.compaq.com/info/GEA103/GEA103PF.PDF  H I notice there is a line drawn between ID 3 and 4 on the internal shelf.  ; Rest of the golden eggs: http://www.compaq.com/info/GECPQA/  --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:46:14 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> # Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 ' Message-ID: <3CA9EE66.A7E5C8E5@aaa.com>    Comments below.  Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Nic Clews wrote: > C > I'm not an expert here, but I'm fairly sure there are two ways of  > cabling the storage.  ; Yes, single or split bus using one or two SCSI controllers. 6 AFAIK, the system come factory installed as split bus.   > H > The internally mounted storageworks shelf has a disabled section whereE > the CDROM ID should be, you can enable it, but it also disables the  > CDROM of course.  E "Normaly" the CD is DKA400 and the shelf is DKA0-300 and DKB0-300, so  there  is no addres conflict.    5 > I believe there are some jumpers on the back of the H > shelf backplane, but I'm not sure how intuitive they are. I think they5 > can also be used to split the shelf in two as well.   H To split the bus (or rather join the bus, since split bus was "normal").> I'v never seen the jumper to disable DKA400, but I'v never had any need to do that either...      > D > I've not helped here I know, I've probably added more to consider.F > Discovered by a colleagues numerous frustrated attempts to get a TLZ) > working in the lower part of the shelf.   F Did the actual SCSI controllers in that box even support a DAT drive ?   >  > Perhaps this'll help?  > 0 > http://www.compaq.com/info/GEA103/GEA103PF.PDF > J > I notice there is a line drawn between ID 3 and 4 on the internal shelf. > = > Rest of the golden eggs: http://www.compaq.com/info/GECPQA/  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:53:03 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel ( Message-ID: <3CA9C5D2.80B01D47@ohio.edu>  E The form is broken on Macintosh Netscape 4.78 (you cannot specify the D minutes, only the month, day, and hour, which don't line up properlyF with the titles above them), but it works on Mac Internet Explorer 5.    				RDP      Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,  > G > We now have a booting contest up on the web.  Give it your best shot. + > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/  >  > Warm Regards,  >  > Sue    --  B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:11:09 +0200' From: "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com>  Subject: API for FTP% Message-ID: <3ca975ad$1@news.post.ch>   	 Hi There,   I just to make it sure: There is still no API for FTP on VMS? (compaq tcpip 	 services)    best regards   Jakob    --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion A and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:32:47 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: API for FTP8 Message-ID: <00A0BD77.23E047A7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  O In article <3ca975ad$1@news.post.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com> writes: 
 >Hi There, > J >just to make it sure: There is still no API for FTP on VMS? (compaq tcpip
 >services)    L But you can do that stuff programmatically with libwww in Perl, if you like.   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:03:37 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: API for FTP: Message-ID: <iegq8.1989$hU3.1353994@news20.bellglobal.com>  F But there is an FTP API in Process Software's TCPware product (for VAXD and/or Alpha). TCPware also has a TELNET API which can be pointed toL different ports to do different things like HTTP (reminds me of the HTTP API= in Windows which can be used to do other things like TELNET).   J I'm very surprised that Compaq hasn't added these two APIs because my team couldn't live without them.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   2 "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:3ca975ad$1@news.post.ch...  > Hi There,  > K > just to make it sure: There is still no API for FTP on VMS? (compaq tcpip  > services)  >  > best regards >  > Jakob  >  > --K > What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion C > and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my company  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:27:46 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: API for FTP, Message-ID: <3CA9B1D0.88DACD63@videotron.ca>  4 How did Digital implement the COPY/FTP  in VMS 7.2 ?  J Doesn't that give some big hint that there would be some form of FTP API ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 18:00:34 GMT  From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.com Subject: Re: API for FTP8 Message-ID: <7crjau0reklgh7m010bk30fvlqq3ae4tn8@4ax.com>  D On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:11:09 +0200, "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:  J >just to make it sure: There is still no API for FTP on VMS? (compaq tcpip
 >services)  ? if you're not interested in using Perl for this,  (ie Net::FTP) ! the FTSO api might be of interest     http://www.compaq.com/emea/ftso/   from ftso_api.h, ...  ** VMS platforms" **   link your application with :  **     - FTSO_API.OLB  **     - LIBFTSO.OLB **     - CFTSO_API.OLB **   ....  
 FTSO$FTSO( FTSO$InitAPI();  FTSO$EnterSession(   FTSO$CloseSession(   FTSO$NewJob (  FTSO$NewTask (   FTSO$SendJob(  FTSO$RemoveJob(  FTSO$CancelJob(  FTSO$StartJob(   FTSO$StopJob(  FTSO$GetTask( 
 FTSO$GetJob(   FTSO$GetJobInfo(   FTSO$SetDefault( FTSO$FindFirstJob (  FTSO$FindNextJob (   FTSO$FindCloseJob (  FTSO$FindFirstTask ( FTSO$FindNextTask (  FTSO$FindCloseTask (   FTSO$DeleteAlias(  FTSO$SetAlias(   FTSO$FindFirstAlias(   FTSO$FindNextAlias(  FTSO$FindCloseAlias(   FTSO$GetAlias(   FTSO$GetUser (   FTSO$SetUser (   FTSO$DeleteUser (  FTSO$EnableUser (  FTSO$DisableUser (   FTSO$FindFirstUser(  FTSO$FindNextUser(   FTSO$FindCloseUser(  FTSO$SetProxy (  FTSO$GetProxy (  FTSO$DeleteProxy (   FTSO$FindFirstProxy(   FTSO$FindNextProxy(  FTSO$FindCloseProxy(   FTSO$SetIdentity(  FTSO$GetIdentity (   FTSO$DeleteIdentity (  FTSO$FindFirstIdentity(  FTSO$FindNextIdentity(   FTSO$FindCloseIdentity(  FTSO$SetRPAUser(   FTSO$GetRPAUser (  FTSO$DeleteRPAUser (   FTSO$FindFirstRPAUser(   FTSO$FindNextRPAUser(  FTSO$FindCloseRPAUser(     ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 07:09:05 -0800 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)4 Subject: Compaqworkinggroup.org, new authentication?< Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0204020709.2da9463@posting.google.com>  F Just got a letter from compaqworkinggroup.org about the new instapoll;? since its about Himalaya I'm abstaining.  In any case it really F doesn't provide the type of answer I'd select if it was VMS instead of Himalaya....  F The message also says:  "You'll notice--we've made the Advocacy log inC easier than ever! Now just enter your email address to log into the F site-- no more ID or password is required-- to submit issues or review Compaq's responses."  C Does this perhaps mean that the longstanging complaints by some COVE> users about 'secure' browsers, cookies, and the like have been
 responded to?0   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 12:32:20 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)T8 Subject: Re: Compaqworkinggroup.org, new authentication?3 Message-ID: <37NBcZpxmOga@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  e In article <cc5619f2.0204020709.2da9463@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes: H > Just got a letter from compaqworkinggroup.org about the new instapoll;A > since its about Himalaya I'm abstaining.  In any case it reallyyH > doesn't provide the type of answer I'd select if it was VMS instead of > Himalaya.... > H > The message also says:  "You'll notice--we've made the Advocacy log inE > easier than ever! Now just enter your email address to log into the H > site-- no more ID or password is required-- to submit issues or review > Compaq's responses." > E > Does this perhaps mean that the longstanging complaints by some COVo@ > users about 'secure' browsers, cookies, and the like have been > responded to?-  & Well, it certainly is "interesting"...   	First try - Netscape   5 		Entered email address, it loaded 750 bytes and hunge   	Second try - Internet Explorern  & 	Entered email address, it took me to:  R http://www.compaqworkinggroup.org/Advocacy/Index.cfm?CFID=1968947&CFTOKEN=79639485  $ 	which has links to Compaq responses  " 	Third try - Netscape Communicator  ) 	Entered email address and it took me to:   I http://www.compaqworkinggroup.org/Index.cfm?CFID=1968981&CFTOKEN=46389696A  H which has nothing of the sort.  Clicked on Compaq Responses, and it tookG me to another page with no responses but talks about responses but does ' not show what Internet Explorer showed.d  , 	Tried again on Netscape, and it hung again.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:32:11 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>" Subject: Re: Corrupt SYSIOSDEF.TLB/ Message-ID: <uajtqmpqfnnnfe@corp.supernews.com>a   sms@antinode.org wrote:m  % > From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>:p >> [...]I >> While doing a fortran compile I got an error referencing to IO$V_RESET9> >> PARER*.  I extracted IODEF from SYSIOSDEF.TLB to IODEF.FOR. >> [...] > 3 >    Mine's in SYS$LIBRARY:FORSYSDEF.TLB, and says:a > / > !  XA (DR11-W) driver function modifier bits.  >             MAP ) >                 PARAMETER IO$S_WORD = 1 A >                 PARAMETER IO$V_WORD = 6                 !  Word6B >                 (interrupt)/block (DMA) mode specifier PARAMETER" >                 IO$S_SETFNCT = 1L >                 PARAMETER IO$V_SETFNCT = 9              !  Set "FNCT" bits; >                 in device CSR PARAMETER IO$S_DATAPATH = 1aG >                 PARAMETER IO$V_DATAPATH = 10            !  Change UBAeE >                 datapath (direct/buffered) PARAMETER IO$S_CYCLE = 1ML >                 PARAMETER IO$V_CYCLE = 12               !  Set "cycle" bit8 >                 in device CSR PARAMETER IO$S_RESET = 1I >                 PARAMETER IO$V_RESET = 13               !  Device resetu >                 specifier  >             BYTE %FILL (1) >             END MAPe > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > E >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)-E >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work),I >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)m; >    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)0 >   K AH!!!  Thank you very much!  I'll set in the value and the rest I can take IG care of.  I'll also take a look into forsysdef.tlb as well and see why kL things are separated out.  I'm using OpenVMS 6.2 and you are likely running + a later version of fortran and o/s as well.w   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 02:53:36 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>0 Subject: DDTMBUG  x CRASH x MAXPROCESSCNT  . . .@ Message-ID: <20020402105336.84900.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  + Yesterday one of my servers crashed because 1 there is a problem with DECDTM under OpenVMS 7.2.y- I am waiting for a new machine, so I will not0 upgrade it.   & The server crashed and saved the dump.  4 But, the crasher process was connected/connecting to6 other machine which was in the limit of MAXPROCESSCNT.  4 What happened ? The Oracle RDB of the other machine 3 began to shutdown by itself. And as I couldnt login.) in the machine I was forced to halt it...s   Anyone experienced it ?    RegardsW   FC     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazila fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?/ Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax  http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:20:12 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t% Subject: Re: DECC$RTLDEF.TLB questiont) Message-ID: <3CA95BAC.9E32EFC9@gtech.com>t   JF Mezei wrote:nM > I finally succeeded in installing the C++ 5.6 compiler. However, during the M > installation, contrary to what others have said here, the installation doesa' > overwrite a few DEC-C specific files.   3 Well - I told you to look out for DECC$RTLDEF.TLB !    O > Notably, the DECC$RTLDEF.TLB file.  On VAX, the CXX 5.6 dates from about 7.1.a6 > I have DEC-C which came with 7.2 on the bobbyist CD. > N > There are substantial differences in the two files. Notably, the CXX versionO > has modules such as FAB, XAB and all sorts of VMS specific stuff, not tied to B > the C run time library which the DECC provided TLB doesn't have.   I would try the biggest one.  M > The DEC-C install created sys$common:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF] which M > contains a lot of the .H modules. It contains 479 modules, whereas the .TLBr$ > provided by CXX contains only 404.2 > The DEC-C prodiced TLB contains only 75 modules.   That does not sound rigth !=  D The DEC C TLB and reference directory should contain the same files.  = Are you sure the reference directory was not created by CXX !   O > What exactly should the DECC$RTLDEF.TLB file contain ? Just the  C RTL stuff,=D > or should it also contain the VMS specific stuff such as FAB, ACL,( > EDT$ROUTINES, SSDEF, STARLET etc etc ?  . The last ones should be in SYS$STARLET_C.TLB !  O > My main concern is that of VMS-specifc stuff which may change from version tolO > versions. Since the CXX compiler is old, should I be worried that it would be- > missing stuff ?   B Hopefully the VMS-specific stuff is generated at installation timeG from STARLETSD.TLB, but at least some old C versions did not. Try check0 the kit.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:21:01 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> % Subject: Re: DECC$RTLDEF.TLB question ) Message-ID: <3CA95BDC.9614AD83@gtech.com>h   Tom Linden wrote:N: > Isn't this the sort of thing for which SDL was invented?    For the VMS specific stuff: yes.   But not for stdio.h etc..,   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:10:51 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: File IO query.u8 Message-ID: <jm0jauk2qgk2lh3h5nqaqmlo9d1rtucot7@4ax.com>  > On 1 Apr 2002 07:56:58 -0800, wingwong@witty.com (wing) wrote:   >Hi, > F >I have written a testing program to write 10000 records in a file. ItG >takes less than 4s. However, if I run 48 copies of the testing program G >at the same time (by submit it to a job queue), it takes >47s to writeh >10000 records.  >  >How to avoid this?t  B Don't do it? Seriously we need more info. unless this is just some bizarre April 1st troll.  D However disk striping and write-back cache immediately jump to mind.  = >I am using standard C to open a file with some VMS specifiedl# >attribute, the code is as follows.m > ? >::open(filename.c_str(), O_CREAT | O_APPEND | O_WRONLY, 00644,m >"shr=get", "rop = asy");n >eF >I have not called fsync in the testing program as I intent to let the >system to fsync the file. >  >Thanks in advance,  >e >Wingb   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 12:26:03 -0600o- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s= Subject: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)-3 Message-ID: <wSC4APUb2uDb@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  k In article <u1mq8.1771$fL6.36125@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:-  N > In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting Itanium...I > so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium willwI > boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot - + > written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-)e  B Fred is a real old-timer.  He does not know that the US governmentA withdrew $1000 bills from circulation many years ago :-)  He musteC have Compaq finance pestering him constantly to _please_ cash those  prior pay checks.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:35:15 +02007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>a# Subject: FW: Alphaserver 1000 4/200mO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6E0F@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>h  D You didn't see the disk, so place the disk on another place in the = internal shelf.r  4 Or buy an external scsi disk and boot from that one.  ? PKA0 is the internal scsi adapter and the PKB0 is the external.h    To boot type >>> boot dka400 0,0 or >>> boot dka100 0,0     > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]r# > Sent: vrijdag 29 maart 2002 23:07l > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/200h >=20 >=20 > David  >=20 > I will check the CDROM.... >=20 >=20 > My >>> SHOW DEVICE shows mei >=20 > DKA400 > DVA0 > EWA0 > PKA0 > PKB0 >=20 > just these devices  !!!! >=20 >=20	 > Regardsi >=20 > FC=20 8 > --- "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > >=205 > > > Today I began the installation of my Alpha 1000 	 > > 4/200a# > > > at home - my hobbist machine.u > > >=201 > > > It looks like ok, but it is not recognizinge5 > > > my unique 2GB boot disk. So I ask you much morer0 > > > experienced with this machine: Do I need a > > terminator?o8 > > > I opened the machine and didnt find any terminator > > in, > > > the SCSI cable (connection backplane). > > >=206 > > > The CD-ROM is DKA400. I believe the disk must be > > DKA08 > > > because it was configured in the SRM as boot disk. > >=20! > > What display do you get from:a > >=20 > > P0>>> SHOW DEVICE  > >=204 > > > As I received ii without any terminator I dont > > know$ > > > if it is internal or external. > >=206 > > Maybe one or the other SCSI device is jumpered for > > termination (check, > > the CD-ROM - had that one happen to me). > >=20	 > > --=20. > > David J. Dachtera  > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > >=20, > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/j >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3 > =aI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazili > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > =tI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=t =3D=3D >=204 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?@ > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/R >=20   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:43:40 +02007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>o" Subject: FW: Memory Channel vs. CIO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6E0B@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>i  ? The reason of end of life is also the reason of the high costs.   W CI is replaced by fiberchannel. The only reason to use CI is in a highend VAX clusters.=  p The other fact is that fiberchannel is fast, but not so robust as CI. Anyone that has knowledge of hardware you P learn to install CI, but for fiberchannel you also need knowledge of networking.  g Memory channel is only for cluster traffic. I have never seen in working so I can't tell much about it.=      @ > >Besides the speed, the major difference between CI and MC is  > that you can; > >hang disk controllers (HSCxx) off the CI. MC is only an F > inter-processor bus. > >U9 > >CI is ancient technology, but as such, it's extremely   > reliable. It also 7 > >offers fault-tolerant dual paths and the ability to   > connect/disconnect nodes= > >without affecting other, still operational nodes. CI will i > work with both- > >VAXen and Alpha systems, MC is Alpha only.t > > " > All true, but CI is end of life.@ > Sollution for Alpha: Fibrechannel for the storage, 100 Mb/sec 
 > or Gigabit h > ethernet for cluster traffic.e > 6 > >"InSoo Kim" <insoo.kim@compaq.com> wrote in message0 > >news:1o7q8.1736$fL6.34736@news.cpqcorp.net... > >n: > >>MC throughput is very high(100 MB/s) than CI(17 MB/s). > >>But CI cost is very high.  > >>Why?" > >>Is any other advantage for CI?# > >>Otherwise, disadvantage for MC?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 13:30:00 GMTr/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> 3 Subject: Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems. * Message-ID: <a8cboo$e4o$2@news1.Radix.Net>  G In comp.os.linux.x Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:o$ > Thomas Dickey wrote in message ...7 >>a few examples would be more informative than a rant.    ...i  M > I'll have to see if I can revive the system with my copy of the code on it.t   ;-)u     -- e= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>u http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 13:32:09 GMTh/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>03 Subject: Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems. * Message-ID: <a8cbsp$e4o$3@news1.Radix.Net>  # GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:p > Thomas Dickey wrote:  I >> #Reconstructed via infocmp from file: /usr/share/lib/terminfo/x/xtermcb; >> xtermc|xterm terminal emulator (color) @(#)xterm.ti 1.3,s  I > Yes, I was using Solaris 8 and the online docs explained how these are -L > formed and then compiled.  But I don't use Solaris 8 at this time.  Maybe ) > give docs.sun.com a  look-see perhaps??o  I actually I was referring to a detail which isn't documented anywhere that  google and friends can find.   -- T= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.comO ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 07:10:04 GMTa From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.com8 Subject: Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"?8 Message-ID: <tfliau8lhtldn5m669kbr9rjdu0hvlhdno@4ax.com>  C On 1 Apr 2002 14:46:26 -0800, hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires)D wrote:  = >I am writing a server that will talk to users through telnetrC >connections.  I was reading the TCPIP (UCX) programming manual andOA >noticed a small section about associating a socket with a telnetn@ >terminal and letting the TNDRIVER do all the fun telnet optionsG >negotiation and such; which then allows me to use all the terminal qioN? >functions on it (the terminal which is now associated with theO	 >socket).  > G >My question is, how do I create a "telnet terminal device" (referenced # >in the TCPIP programming manual at-] >http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/TCPIP_SOCKETS_API_SYS_SRVS.pdf,)E >pg 6-65) to bind the socket to?  I've searched the I/O users manual,5D >the TCPIP manual, and the master index but haven't found anything. @ >The TCPIP manual has examples for every chapter except for thisB >IO$_TTY_PORT function.  Anyways, any pointers, examples, or other? >places to go to find information would be greatly appreciated.. > D >My ip stack is Multinet 4.4 but I am writing this in UCX because itD >looks like all the stacks can emulate UCX now-a-days.  If anyone is@ >aware of any problems with this arrangement please let me know. >i >Thanks, >Scott Squires  . if creating a fixed number of permanent ports  from DCL,  will suffice, then:    	 $set noons< $If( f$getsyi( "CPU" ) .gt. 127 ) ! if alpha, assume UCX ... $Then        $ telnet /delete_session 100 $ deassign/sys/exec test_porte* $ telnet /create_session 10.0.0.1 8080 100& $ define/sys/exec   test_port TNA100:  $else ' $ multinet telnet /delete_nty=test_ports $ deassign/sys/exec test_port9 $ multinet telnet -@     /create_nty=( -j      permanent -     ,name=test_port -      ,table=lnm$system -c     ,mode=executive ) -u      /port=8080 -            10.0.0.1 $endif ! else of if alphan  ' I believe the newer multinets also had  ' a utility/tool for for this,   (NTYCP?)n    : ao far as doing this from a HLL,  there is a IO$_TTY_PORT F function described  in the I/O User's Reference Manual in the LAT port: driver section,  but I've not yet run across similar docs  for TNDRIVER.   U http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6136/6136pro_020.html#lat_port_driver_funcn  1 the multinet equivalent is (was) IO$_NETWORK_PTY rD (undoc'ed, afaik).  if you try http://groups.google.com/, you should turn up at least a few hits.   e.g.  , From: Jeff Schreiber <schreiber@process.com># Subject: RE: IO$_NTY function codesa Date: 2000/06/133 Message-ID: <009EB8E2.01835608.161@process.com>#1/1 F Organization: Info-Multinet<==>Vmsnet.Networks.Tcp-Ip.Multinet Gateway Mime-Version: + Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinets# X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing Listn  , "Fred Strauss" <fred_strauss@ap.org> writes: > F >We are in the process of converting our LAT based terminal servers toJ >TCP/IP. I am attempting to convert some software that uses LTA devices toA >use NTY devices and am trying to find analgous function codes tosF >(IO$_TTY_PORT | IO$M_LT_CONNECT) and (IO$_TTY_PORT | IO$M_LT_DISCON). >e= >I see in INETIODEF.H there are the following function codes:  >eC >#define IO$_NTY_CONN            (IO$_TTY_PORT | (2 << IO$S_FCODE)) C >#define IO$_NTY_CLOSE           (IO$_TTY_PORT | (3 << IO$S_FCODE))sC >#define IO$_NTY_FREE            (IO$_TTY_PORT | (4 << IO$S_FCODE))@ >u" >Can someone tell me what they do? >f    Is this what you're looking for?  C NTY_CONN         = 2              ; Startup a connection on the NTYt@ NTY_CLOSE        = 3              ; Close the current connection: NTY_FREE         = 4               ; Release permanent NTY  )                                     -Jeff    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 09:00:58 -0800 + From: hobbesnet@hotmail.com (Scott Squires)i8 Subject: Re: How do I create a "telnet terminal device"?= Message-ID: <ff921edf.0204020900.29c73d76@posting.google.com>N  $ Thanks for the responses, everybody.  F It appears that UCX doesn't have a user callable create-network-deviceE function (seems to make the documented IO$_TTY_PORT for telnet rather B useless... maybe that's just me), so I guess I'll be re-writing my? program using Multinet.  Multinet's IO$_NETWORK_PTY function is"E undocumented, but I found some examples on how to use it.  I wrote up 7 a quick little test program and it seems to do its job.c  
 Thanks again, 
 Scott Squiresf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:11:41 +0100-T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxe& Message-ID: <3CA9CA2D.1060403@sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:M   > Greg Cagle wrote:  > + >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:d >> >>>  >>>  >>> Paul Sture wrote:o >>>  >>>> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:u >>>>
 >>>>> We did?v >>>>>d >>>>J >>>> Nah, didn't miss it a bit. I do recall certain people noting that he K >>>> wasn't around to bash when they felt in a bad mood about something :-)l >>>> >>>n >>> @ >>> Or put another way I wasn't here to challenge some of the BS/ >>> that some people like to pass off as facts.0 >> >> >>3 >> Which begs the question - what ARE you here for?D >> > H > My best guess is to get Fred upset and disturb his work. I cannot see + > _any_ other purpose in his present posts.  >     " What exactly does Freddy boy do ??  8 Post Alphacide its a bit difficult to work out though it- isn't apparently anything remotely technical.r     Regardss   Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:33:06 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxo3 Message-ID: <u1mq8.1771$fL6.36125@news.cpqcorp.net>n  2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message <3CA9CA2D.1060403@sun.com>...i >o   snip   >>>o4 >>> Which begs the question - what ARE you here for? >>>n >>H >> My best guess is to get Fred upset and disturb his work. I cannot see, >> _any_ other purpose in his present posts. >> >e > # >What exactly does Freddy boy do ??h >:9 >Post Alphacide its a bit difficult to work out though ite. >isn't apparently anything remotely technical. >o >5  " Well, SunWipe(tm)...  let's see...  H I just finished writing and checking in the X11 drivers for USB mice andL keyboards for the Marvel release (Marvel will have no legacy ISA bus or junkG IO)... while I was at it I added "multi-seat" support to allow multiplerJ keyboards and mice and graphics devices to be used by independent users onK the same system.  I also threw in a hack to allow the thumbwheel to be used, on the USB mouse ;-)  L I manage the VMS graphics group, which is working on the ATI Radeon 7500 for+ the Marvel release along with other things.s  L In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting Itanium...G so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium will G boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot - ) written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-)a   Odds & Ends,F         plus answering a putz like you who apparently do little of any value.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 10:24:24 -0800l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxi= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204021024.3574fb68@posting.google.com>r   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CA1C358.70601@sun.com>...6 > Shouldn't you be working on a more plausible OpenVMS< > strategy than the one you currently have on offer. Believe= > me your commercial customers are not impressed. I have justa9 > come back from a meeting between a bank here in the UK, ; > Sun and an ISV, their SW runs on Solaris and OpenVMS, thet8 > ISV was told in no uncertain terms by the customer and< > un-prompted by anyone from Sun that Alpha is dead, OpenVMS= > is dead and they will not be paying to migrate to IA64. Theh< > intends to migrate the app from OpenVMS to Solaris we will > be assisting them. > < > The demise of Alpha was apparently the nail in the coffin. > ' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" A > > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message $ > > news:3CA0A40E.7070809@sun.com... > >   < unix in any form is "G A R B A G E" ... the facts don't lie!I by the way, did you comprehend yet why vms is unhackable?  here it is ...p  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:I > Sorry nice try but no cigar. In a number of cases OpenVMS was vunerablelI > to IP stack exploits, Compaq had posted response to CERT for both Tru64t9 > and OpenVMS, OpenVMS was listed as not being vunerable.  > B > Except that Compaqs own patch reports then listed a patch to fixH > the same vunerability. In otherwords the CERT response did not reflect  > OpenVMS's actual vunerability. > A > Security through obscurity which you are apparently arguing for?= > is one thing but this is not what has happened in the past.   E Andrew, I tried to explain this to you once before.  I must have usedyC words that were too big since you've completely failed to grasp the G concept.  I'll try once more, and I'll go slowly so follow along now...s  G OpenVMS is not now, nor has it ever been, vulnerable to any sort or anyeH type of IP exploit.  Why?  Because OpenVMS will completely ignore any IP2 packet it sees unless you add an IP product to it.  = There are multiple choices available when one wants to add IPeG functionality to VMS and you seem to be working very hard at convincingnH folks that one of those choices and VMS are the same thing.  'Tisn't so, though.C  H 1).  TCPIP services for OpenVMS, the product that is a port of the Tru64E unix IP stack, is one of the choices for VMS.  However, and I realize-H this will come as a shock to you, while Unix and VMS perform many of theB same functions, the implementation of those functions is differentA between the two systems.  One major difference is the handling of @ dynamic allocation of kernel-based data structures.  Why is thisH significant?  Because I can take two Alpha systems that are identical inH hardware, load Tru64 on one and VMS with TCPIP services on the other andG hit them with several DoS attacks designed to cause resource starvationaD of the host.  Result:  The unix box crashes, the VMS box keeps going@ (although sometimes its performance degrades until the attack isH blocked).  This is with that exact piece of code that you keep trying toF claim must make VMS exploitable because it made Tru64 exploitable.  It doesn't.  I can prove it.o  B 2). Multinet.  My product of choice.  I've already told you that IG configured a VMS system with multinet and ran IP attacks against it and F the system survived every one.  You chose not to believe me.  You evenF went so far as to claim I must not have known what I was doing or beenG fully aware of the network configuration when I ran the test.  Well, nooF one is denying your right to disbelieve me.  However, if you'd like toF visit sunny San Diego, I'll be happy to demonstrate why your disbelief
 is misplaced.o  G 3). UCX.  No longer a product, it has been retired.  It was, however, adE good example of what a bad product can do to a good system.  If you'daF like to claim that OpenVMS must not be as secure as is claimed becauseE of what could happen to a system that had UCX running on it, I've got C quite a few examples of applications that will prove the exact samekD thing about Solaris.  Or, perhaps, you are willing to concede that aH badly implemented product is not a reflection of the operating system it- runs on?  Good, then let's get past that one.f  G In short, Andrew, VMS lives up to its security reputation.  It has been H well-earned over many years through many trials.  Now, since the design,H development, and implementation of VMS is done by mere mortals, mistakesF have been known to happen.  The difference, you see, is that with VMS,G once the mistake is discovered it is fixed - the same cannot be said ofs Solaris.  G Aesop has a story to tell about people like you.  Go read the one aboutrG the fox trying to reach the grapes, it may help you realize the type of  impression you give people..  
 Mark Berrymanb Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com Chief Network Engineer   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:37:28 -0000// From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>= Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS/ Message-ID: <uajk1oq32kggc7@corp.supernews.com>   9 Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote: - : On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Peter Watkinson wrote:r : [...]3E :>+Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelott> :>+having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable.E :>+Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or % :>+alpha processor in these machines?h  : :  At least the biggest lottery in Poland runs "under VMS"; : (GTech, really). Not so long ago definitely on VAX, todayv : I am not sure.  > Gtech is moving off VMS to Tru64 and IBM AIX.  The main reason? was not VMS unreliability but third-party software availabilitye> and pricing.  Prior to the move they had Unix and VMS and were? paying double licensing for products like Sybase.  The move wasi+ drivine by economics, not any VMS problems.t   -- h -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:39:21 -0000i/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>w Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS/ Message-ID: <uajk59r47c1cf0@corp.supernews.com>r  - Peter Watkinson <peterw@u.genie.co.uk> wrote:    : Hi,B  G : A few months ago I applied for a job on jobserve.com the UK's leadingnE : IT recruitment website for a junior VMS administrator type roll for-E : the UK's main lottery firm which I took to mean Camelot who run thetF : National Lottery. I didn't get the job! Anyway since then I've had aH : part time job working in a service station that has a lottery machine.D : Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelot  ; No, the central transaction systems run VMS.  The terminals = run whatever language the manufacturer specifies.  Gtech ter-1 minals run a modified C.      = : having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable.pD : Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or$ : alpha processor in these machines?  - Mostly Alpha, but some older systems are VAX.    --   -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:44:05 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>2 Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS/ Message-ID: <uajke51rfu5p4d@corp.supernews.com>H  5 John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:oN : In the early days, the UK lottery used to take *hours* to hint at the numberM : of winners after the draw was made.  For fun, I wrote a small program whichuG : uniquely identified each combination of draw numbers and so could (inaL : theory) maintain an in-memory count of how many of each unique combinationM : had been sold (assuming it could be fed with data fast enough to keep up in M : real time).  The memory usage is almost trivial, and the processing time to:L : permutate the winning numbers is seconds, so a "result" could be announcedN : on the same TV programme, but I never did offer to sell it.  (Couldn't thinkJ : of a suitable percentage of the gross turnover !)  I'm open to offers...  ? Gtech scans files the transaction files and outstanding tickets B files for winners, not memory.  The can find a winner and identify2 the store and other ticket details in a few hours.    H : My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored inL : "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to countI : the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of thef= : winner numbers and values has gone down since they started.d  ) Not in a database, in a transaction file.o  B In fact, all N systems' tapes must agree on the ticket details forA it to be validated.  Your system would allow a privileged user toc" hack a winning ticket into memory.   -- e -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:07:56 +02008= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t! Subject: Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMSs) Message-ID: <3CA958CC.5F4325C7@gtech.com>i   Tom Linden wrote:oG > > On VAX, Macro/32 is  "VAX Assembler". It happens to support macros; C > > hence, a "macro assembler"; thus, the name. On VAX, it's a 2GL.n > >tI > > On Alpha, Macro/32 is modified somewhat and is a compiler; that is, ai > > 3GL. > >oJ > > On Alpha, Macro/64 is "Alpha Assembler". It happens to support macros;; > > hence, a "macro assembler"; thus, the name. It's a 2GL.n  N > I don't think there are any rigorous definitions of what a 2GL or a 3 GL is;L > however, I would not characterize Macro/32 or C for that matter as 3GL.  I > tend3 > to associate 3GL with block structured languages.P  E Macro-32 on Alpha is a "special case". I would call it a 2GL languagen implemented in a 3GL compiler.  + I think that most people will call C a 3GL.y   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:13:47 +0200g= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> ! Subject: Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMSo) Message-ID: <3CA9845B.DBBCB7D2@gtech.com>a   Tom Linden wrote: N > I don't think there are any rigorous definitions of what a 2GL or a 3 GL is;L > however, I would not characterize Macro/32 or C for that matter as 3GL.  I > tend3 > to associate 3GL with block structured languages.t  @ And BTW, why do you not consider C a block structured language ?   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:27:26 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ! Subject: Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS_: Message-ID: <DAgq8.2081$hU3.1358286@news20.bellglobal.com>  L MACRO-32 (for VAX) didn't require a license. MACRO-64 (for Alpha) required a$ license for a while but is now free.  > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#macro64  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,o Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   8 "Mark Gutzwiller" <markg@earthling.net> wrote in message' news:3CA49295.E983503D@earthling.net...e > X-No-archive: yesA >oI > I'm sure this question is answered someplace in the VMS FAQ, but I justR > overlooked it. >vB > I am the proud owner of a VAX 3100-80 (MicroVAX VMS 6.1) system. > J > The hobbyist license includes MACRO-64. To me, this seems to be an Alpha
 > program. >/J > So my questions are: Is it an Alpha only license, and question #2, if it+ > is, how can I get a VAX MACRO-32 license?j >: > I have the CSD's to July '94.e >0? > So point me to the right place in the FAQ, and I'll be happy.r >i > --8 > Never trust any statistics, which you did not falsify. >i >V   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:03:33 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>a" Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI8 Message-ID: <a8cdpp$1cr$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  A I believe MC, like the CI is end of life.  Anyone hear otherwise?    Dave...Y  B "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote in messageI news:2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6E0B@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl...  >T >EA > The reason of end of life is also the reason of the high costs.C > K > CI is replaced by fiberchannel. The only reason to use CI is in a highend 
 VAX clusters.T >(G > The other fact is that fiberchannel is fast, but not so robust as CI.<) Anyone that has knowledge of hardware youaF > learn to install CI, but for fiberchannel you also need knowledge of networking.  > J > Memory channel is only for cluster traffic. I have never seen in working so I can't tell much about it. >  >  >4A > > >Besides the speed, the major difference between CI and MC is  > > that you can< > > >hang disk controllers (HSCxx) off the CI. MC is only an > > inter-processor bus. > > >o: > > >CI is ancient technology, but as such, it's extremely > > reliable. It alsog8 > > >offers fault-tolerant dual paths and the ability to > > connect/disconnect nodes> > > >without affecting other, still operational nodes. CI will > > work with both/ > > >VAXen and Alpha systems, MC is Alpha only.R > > >e$ > > All true, but CI is end of life.A > > Sollution for Alpha: Fibrechannel for the storage, 100 Mb/sec  > > or Gigabit! > > ethernet for cluster traffic.t > >u8 > > >"InSoo Kim" <insoo.kim@compaq.com> wrote in message2 > > >news:1o7q8.1736$fL6.34736@news.cpqcorp.net... > > >h< > > >>MC throughput is very high(100 MB/s) than CI(17 MB/s). > > >>But CI cost is very high.4
 > > >>Why?$ > > >>Is any other advantage for CI?% > > >>Otherwise, disadvantage for MC?.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 08:43:03 -0800 1 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)." Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204020843.12257a4d@posting.google.com>d  c "InSoo Kim" <insoo.kim@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<1o7q8.1736$fL6.34736@news.cpqcorp.net>...>8 > MC throughput is very high(100 MB/s) than CI(17 MB/s).  @ In addition to higher bandwidth, MC also has significantly lowerB latency for things like lock requests.  I measured lock latency at@ about 440 microseconds on CI, and about 120 microseconds on MC. D (Interestingly, on DSSI, another technology often deprecated because> of its low bandwidth (4 MB/sec) and considered old and slow, IB recently measured lock latency at about 330 microseconds, which isB actually better than CI.)  Latency on LANs was between 230 and 285@ microseconds.  MC even comes close to the speed of Galaxy SharedE Memory Interconnect, where I measured about 100 microseconds for lockH latency.   > But CI cost is very high.- > Why?  F Supply and demand.  In my observation, there has not yet been a reallyC good replacement for CI.  We thought Memory Channel was going to betF it, but MC has close to 3 times the host CPU overhead of CI, and can'tF connect to storage.  FC is fast and connects storage, but our hopes ofD sending SCS traffic over FC never materialized.  There are also someC features of MSCP-based storage (like Volume Shadowing assists) that D haven't yet been duplicated in FC or SCSI storage.  So old as it is,B slow as it is, CI is still sometimes the only effective choice for; some high-end cluster customers with very high availabilityeB requirements.  Folks who need more bandwidth or locking throughputF often just use multiple CI adapters and star couplers (even as many asD a dozen of them).  (On the other hand, using a combination of FC for> storage and LANs for SCS traffic meets the needs of many other customers.)t  E But in terms of prices, note that there's a lot of CI hardware on theeF used/refurbished market, which is considerably less expensive than new
 equipment.    > Is any other advantage for CI?! > Otherwise, disadvantage for MC?S  F If you have SMP systems, CI has Fast_Path capability, which allows youD to take interrupt workload off of the primary CPU (CPU 0) and spreadF it across other CPUs, to avoid saturation of CPU 0 in interrupt state.  D Fast_Path for Fibre Channel is in 7.3; Fast_Path for LAN adapters is slated for 7.3-1, last I heard.o  ; MC writes are done by having the Alpha CPU copy data into asF specially-mapped area of memory.  This copying by the CPU causes MC toE require about 2.5 times the CPU overhead of CI, where the CI hardware1 itself moves the data.  A CI allows longer cable lengths in general than MC (aside from thexE option of a 3-km fiber link between MC hubs).  CI allows 16 nodes per4! hub (star coupler), more than MC.r. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:55:47 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h Subject: Re: mysqlH Message-ID: <nThq8.33608$09u.14050@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 You might find an old version of Interbase somewhere.e It's very Rdb-like.   I Currently at version 6.5, I think that the last supported VMS version wasu v5.a    3 "Wim_K" <verledentijd@hotmail.com> wrote in messagem$ news:a882tt$deo$1@news1.xs4all.nl...L > Hello I'm looking for a freeware database, I was looking for mysql, but it > isn't ported to VMS. >S >r' > Is there something else I could use??h >e >e& > I hope that someone can help me out. >f > Many thanks in advance >n > WimC >u >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 13:10:28 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: mysqlH Message-ID: <85iq8.33612$09u.26021@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L Interbase  *used* to be available on VMS. Borland has made it 'open source'.F You might want to take a look at it - I rather liked it when were were$ evaluating it a number of years ago.  E Don't know if there are still any VMS-specific bits in the code-base.OF Perhaps an e-mail to Borland and a browse through the code might be in order.   --------------------  6 from http://www.inprise.com/interbase/ib6/ib6_faq.html    INTERBASE 6.0 Response to Recent Inquiries  = Q: Is Borland truly committed to the InterBase product line?r  C A: Yes. Borland continues to commit significant human and financial J resources to the ongoing development and support of InterBase. Borland hasG an entire product team, including Research and Development, QA testing, E Technical Support, Sales and Marketing to support InterBase's future.n  C Q: Why has Borland been so quiet since the initial open sourcing ofo
 InterBase?  G A: Based on strong customer demand, Borland has been working to certifyaJ InterBase 6 on a variety of platforms. With that accomplished, we now haveI the foundation to work more closely with InterBase customers and the openo source community.r  J Q: Why has Borland decided to continue development of InterBase after open sourcing it?  K A: InterBase is an integral part of Borland's line of development products,TH such as JBuilderT, C++BuilderT, DelphiT and KylixT. InterBase also has aI large customer base that lobbied Borland to continue to support InterBasee	 directly.t  4 Q: Does InterBase have any potential security flaws?  L A: No software is absolutely secure. However, in an effort to avoid any typeF of security breach, we continually test for possible security threats.I Platform specific security patches can be downloaded. We will continue touI enhance InterBase security on all fronts moving forward, and it should beaI noted that the "back door" flaw in our Certified and Open Source versions K that existed in previous versions of InterBase has been completely removed.r   Q: Will InterBase be free?  L A: The core source code for the open source version 6.01.6 will be availableH to download free from Source Forge. This is the only authorized locationG where InterBase source code can be found. The certified versions, whichrL include additional features and functionality, are available for purchase atF http://shop.borland.com. The certified Server Edition version includesG updated and tested InterClientT, IBXT, IBConsoleT, fully supported ODBCs connectivity and IBReplicatorT.e  0 Q: For which platforms is InterBase 6 certified?  8 A: InterBase 6 is certified for the following platforms:   Windows Operating System, 2000gA Windows Operating System, NT 4. 0 (w/ Service Pack 6a or higher) - Windows Operating System, Millennium Editiont Windows Operating System, 98.* Linux Operating System, Red Hat 6.2 and 7% Linux Operating System, MandrakeT 7.2h! Linux Operating System, SuSe 7.0 , Linux Operating System, TurboLinux 6.0, and% SolarisT Operating System, 2.6 and 7.   ( Q: How will InterBase be made available?  K A: InterBase will be made available in three versions: Open Edition, is theiJ source code only found on Source Forge; Desktop Edition, which includes anJ enhanced local version of the database is available via download only fromG http://shop.borland.com; and Server Edition, which includes updated andeI tested InterClient, IBX, IBConsole, fully supported ODBC connectivity andm< IBReplicator will be available from http://shop.borland.com.  @ Q: How much is the certified version of InterBase going to cost?  K A: We are keeping the already reasonable pricing and offering the same highsL standards of technical support that Borland offers across all product lines.7 Please see our current prices on the Borland shop site:  http://shop.borland.com.  C Q: Will there be a trial download (evaluation copy) for InterBase 6C certified edition?  J A: Yes, we are developing a downloadable trial version that will allow youH to evaluate the new features and functionality not available in the open source version.g  8 Q: Will the open source certified binaries be available?  I A: The binaries currently available on our web site are not certified andt will not be updated.  ' Q: Why is the Open version uncertified?s  G A: The open source code on Source Forge is always a "work in progress."uD Features and functionality tested there are experimental and offer aK development test bed for the certified versions. You are welcome to develophK and deploy at your own risk, subject to the terms and conditions of the IPLaE license. We encourage our community to participate in the Open SourceMI efforts and download and compile the open version, but our certification,rL load testing and final field testing is done on stable servers and the fullyK functional Borland compiled version. Certification is only provided for our  purchased deployable products.  > Q: How do I get involved with the Borland open source project?  L A: There are several news groups that Borland sponsors and maintains. We areL working to have these monitored not only by our Quality Assurance staff, but0 by our Research & Development engineers as well.  5 Q: Has licensing been added to the certified version?o  K A: Yes, licensing is now available in our Server Edition, as well as in thee Desktop Edition.  G Q: What types of issues are covered by the Technical Support Engineers?m  I A: Installation issues are free for customers with the certified version.nF Support options regarding installation and database issues in the Open# Edition are available for purchase.t  L Compilation and coding problems in the Open Edition cannot be supported, norF can we support options currently available for the previously releasedD non-certified Open Source binaries. We will not support the existingF binaries from the open source version, nor can we provide free installI support of the open source version. However, installation support will betK available using our various developer support fee based offerings. Finally,MK for a fee, we will support binaries you build yourself from the open source4E version, however, we will only support them to the extent that we canR, reproduce problems in the certified version.   Q: What versions are supported?d   A: Windows, Linux, and Solaris.>  : Q: Will there be free support for the open source version?  L A: Borland will post instructions on how you can build the binaries, but forH obvious reasons we cannot support the building of binaries from the open source version.o  > Q: Which platforms are supported by Borland Technical Support?  K A: Many versions of InterBase on a variety of platforms continue to be usedeJ by our customers. Consequently we provide support on a number of differentI platforms, including: Windows, Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, SCO, Novell, and" AIX.   J Q: What's the difference between the certified version and the Open Source version?  C A: The functionality is the same in the Open Source version and theeI certified version, but certain performance enhancements may not appear ini the open source version.  . The certified version will have the following:  C Complete QA certification of all modules and components involved inw	 InterBase K Cross platform testing permutations and combinations between Windows, Linux  and SolariseK Single to Multi-user load testing in high stressed and high load user count  Small to large database testingi$ Most current InterBase documentationE Licensing API (our VAR community and developers depend highly on thisn/ feature to deploy solutions based on InterBase)k  Silent Install using Install APIE Worldwide Customer Support and services from Borland will be ready to / support the product that they know is certified-/ JDBC (InterClient) and ODBC (Easysoft) drivers0 IBReplicator replication engine8J Best of breed companion tools and products that will be made more clear in
 the futureJ International versions of the certified product will be available based on demandH World class Rapid Application Development tools integration with BorlandK Developer tools (Delphi, Kylix, JBuilder, etc.) through IBX and InterClient   A Q: Does Borland host the source code for the open source version?   ' A: No, it can be found on Source Forge.         3 "Wim_K" <verledentijd@hotmail.com> wrote in messageh$ news:a882tt$deo$1@news1.xs4all.nl...L > Hello I'm looking for a freeware database, I was looking for mysql, but it > isn't ported to VMS. >z >a' > Is there something else I could use??  >d > & > I hope that someone can help me out. >u > Many thanks in advance >s > Wimc >  >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:20:19 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>r2 Subject: RE: Predictions - just for the hell of itT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFE@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Peter,  F While I obviously have no view of what specific issues you are talkingB about in Australia, and I will not state that the industry wide ITF downturn did not impact some aspects of services (like it did with allA services companies) I can say that local business issues are veryL country specific.=20  H Bottom line - making sweeping statements like Compaq Services "literally2 doesn't exist anymore..." is a huge fud statement.   Regards,   =20 
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Compaq Canada Corp.. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: Peter Quodling [mailto:quodling@bigpond.net.au]=20 Sent: April 2, 2002 1:34 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it    6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp net>...a	 > Peter -A$ > Wow, where did that fud come from? >=20 > ROTFL ...o >=20 > "rejecting new business?"r >=20G > ROTFL .. Man, would that statement ever get a round of laughs from=20d+ > Business Development folks we have in PS.s >=20F Actually, it's from an Ex Compaq PS Business Manager. You know, one ofH those lucky people that brings in 20 Million dollars worth of business aG year, and doesn't survive one of the purges. A Month a go, when he left:H compaq he had a 5 month front log of work, and a dozen people working inH his team.  That frontlog has now disappeared, and the last member of his team has been laid of.  E HAve a look at Compaq Australia, where at last count, around 120 have:& been laid off in the last month or so.  H > Like all Services groups from all companies, we would certainly not=20I > engage in every opportunity that came our way as it might might make=20oI > better sense to use a Partner, but we are certainly not turning away=20v, > business in area's of core competancies ..  E What we have seen is Partner's presenting business where the customer D wants to deal with compaq as a prime, but rather than subcontract it1 back to the Partner, CPQ is dumping the business.a  F > Care to state where this fud came from so we can correct the source?  B How's that? Send in Carly and Curly's thug squad to rough them up?   Peterf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:46:38 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it8 Message-ID: <qo2jau88a8if6p8dfljdinkbukdlkjsm2k@4ax.com>  0 On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:20:19 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:   >Peter,  >kG >While I obviously have no view of what specific issues you are talking C >about in Australia, and I will not state that the industry wide IT G >downturn did not impact some aspects of services (like it did with alltB >services companies) I can say that local business issues are very >country specific. . > I >Bottom line - making sweeping statements like Compaq Services "literally 3 >doesn't exist anymore..." is a huge fud statement.l  @ As a related point when we tried to used Compaq Services/DECmove@ whatever its called to redesign our computer room and repositionE systems (with as little as possible downtime) Compaq thought about it6E for a month or so then said they no longer had the resources to do it)F and passed us on to another company. Note: not subcontracted so Compaq income would be zero.   	 >Regards,> >e >  >Kerry Maing >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036o >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comR >M >r >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: Peter Quodling [mailto:quodling@bigpond.net.au] S >Sent: April 2, 2002 1:34 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itu >s >r7 >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageeI >news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorpr >net>...
 >> Peter -% >> Wow, where did that fud come from?o >>   >> ROTFL ... >> s >> "rejecting new business?" >> DF >> ROTFL .. Man, would that statement ever get a round of laughs from , >> Business Development folks we have in PS. >> mG >Actually, it's from an Ex Compaq PS Business Manager. You know, one of I >those lucky people that brings in 20 Million dollars worth of business acH >year, and doesn't survive one of the purges. A Month a go, when he leftI >compaq he had a 5 month front log of work, and a dozen people working iniI >his team.  That frontlog has now disappeared, and the last member of hise >team has been laid of.e >fF >HAve a look at Compaq Australia, where at last count, around 120 have' >been laid off in the last month or so.a >cG >> Like all Services groups from all companies, we would certainly not  H >> engage in every opportunity that came our way as it might might make H >> better sense to use a Partner, but we are certainly not turning away - >> business in area's of core competancies ..  >oF >What we have seen is Partner's presenting business where the customerE >wants to deal with compaq as a prime, but rather than subcontract it 2 >back to the Partner, CPQ is dumping the business. > G >> Care to state where this fud came from so we can correct the source?s >nC >How's that? Send in Carly and Curly's thug squad to rough them up?C >r >Peter   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:36:34 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it, Message-ID: <3CA9B3DF.C1561D9A@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:eG > systems (with as little as possible downtime) Compaq thought about itCG > for a month or so then said they no longer had the resources to do itoH > and passed us on to another company. Note: not subcontracted so Compaq > income would be zero.e  N I have always seen 2 Digitals. The one that dealt with me, and the "dream" oneJ that had all the great stuff, red carpets, visits from sales critters etc.L When I was at a bank, getting the salescritter to come and help prevent someH department from kicking the vax out was impossible. Yet, I hear of otherJ customers who had available to them full resources from Digital, could getM some of the Mass. engineers to make technical presentations to their folks to) push for a new product.4  M When I asked for such a tech presentation to push the DECNET/SNA stuff to the-I bank's IT technicians and managers, all I got was some local guy who knew-J little about the product and wasted everyone's time. Yet, at DECUS events,6 you'd meet other customers who had incredible service.  M My view is that Mr Main is part of the "dream" Digital, while the rest of the = world has progressed to the one and only Digital I ever knew.v  D Had it not been for DECUS where I saw a version of Digital I had notN encounterered, I probably would have never been keen on pushing Digital, seingN its potential, and fighting to try to get the level of service that I had seen
 other get.  M I really see VMS as being downsized to the level of Tandem when each customer N is a well known entity and when they have announcements to make, they go visitK those customers individually because there aren't that many. At least thoseMM customers will get good service and other customers are getting the hint that85 Compaq isn't interested in having them stay with VMS.   M That is the message I get. If that is not the message Compaq wants me to get,o& it is up to Compaq to change its ways.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 06:56:06 -0800 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>p2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it( Message-ID: <a8cgq60un5@drn.newsguy.com>  7 In article <3CA9B3DF.C1561D9A@videotron.ca>, JF says....P >>I have always seen 2 Digitals. The one that dealt with me, and the "dream" oneK >that had all the great stuff, red carpets, visits from sales critters etc.YM >When I was at a bank, getting the salescritter to come and help prevent sometI >department from kicking the vax out was impossible. Yet, I hear of otherdK >customers who had available to them full resources from Digital, could get,N >some of the Mass. engineers to make technical presentations to their folks to >push for a new product.  O Yes there were two Digitals. One was called DEC and was outstanding, the lattereM incarnation turned itself on its head and renamed itself Digital. Much of thelL old DEC culture survived for many years and islands of it still exist today.N Ironically VMS engineering and the not quite dead yet Alpha and Storage designI teams represent the last coherent part of DEC culture still alive. IronicgG because VAX/VMS then Alpha was to be the driver behind the new Digital.CP Helpfully Gordon Bell has made available DEC's suicide note on his Microsoft web site ataG http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/VAX%20Strategy%20c1979.pdfe  P Although much of the document makes sense what is clear is that DEC and Bell hadI lost touch with the customer. The document sets out the policy of dumpingsP multiple architectures and operating systems in favour of (at that time) VAX andM VMS with the logic being that they would piss off fewer customers by droppingiI products bit by bit and most would accept the 'replacement' offerings. ItrO already contains sentences along the lines of "key customers are in favour" andr7 "we simplify things for them" etc, etc. Sound familiar?r  O From that point onwards DEC changed from a company responsive to customer needs P to one which attempted to drive the customer where it wanted them to go. To makeM matters worse it then changed that direction every few years. First VMS, thencK Unix then NT, now goodness knows where. Customers who wanted diversity wereiL dismissed as whiners or sore losers and many drifted away looking elsewhere.J Twenty years of this has ingrained it so deeply that multiple analysts and< customers just have no belief in anything Compaq says today.  P At first the drift was slow and the strategy appeared to work. Digital did buildL VAX and VMS up but too slowly and it kept it way overpriced and took a long,F long time to realise it had to keep software functionality up with theO competition. It relied on the DEC name and culture selling systems as it slowlypL decimated that very culture. The low end and mid range competition caught upK and, even when Digital could still have played the game, it rolled over and? died.I  O Finally it convinced itself "there is no future in being different" and broughtdN about its own demise. The strategy that once boosted VMS into the stratosphereO has now almost come full circle. VMS and Alpha are now in the same position the.J DEC-10 and DEC-20 line were in at the time of the Gordon Bell paper (circaO 78/79). Gordon Bell the father of both the 36 bit line (PDP-6/10/20) and the 32bK bit line authored the document which will finally likely kill VMS as it didnM TOPS-10/20. It could not be more appropriate that both he and Dave Cutler areoM now at Microsoft given that the document says that the plan will help Digitals# compete with emerging PCs. Ooops!!!c  M The final, ultimate irony is that Microsoft itself may finally fall victim torJ the same "one OS fits all" strategy as more and more folk choose not to beO driven and go for Linux. Some (in alt.sys.pdp10 especially) might not agree butoM I still believe a portable VMS can have a healthy future as well. But does HPvM and Compaq management. The answer has to be "no" unless they finally overturnbL Bell's nearly a quarter of a century old policy paper. And perhaps MS shouldP embrace other architectures as well if it wants to last longer than the 40 or so years DEC/Digital managed.  N >When I asked for such a tech presentation to push the DECNET/SNA stuff to theJ >bank's IT technicians and managers, all I got was some local guy who knewK >little about the product and wasted everyone's time. Yet, at DECUS events,o7 >you'd meet other customers who had incredible service.i >eN >My view is that Mr Main is part of the "dream" Digital, while the rest of the> >world has progressed to the one and only Digital I ever knew.  O Yep, much of the face of Digital we see in comp.os.vms reflects the little leftiO of the old DEC. I'm x-posting this so some may not agree but my memory tells mevM it is so. In fact some of the current VMS team were there in the PDP-10 days.aP When our current Alpha cluster was installed two years ago, Compaq FS turned outN in force and I met three engineers I had known from my DEC-20 days as a young,K innocent programer 20 years ago. They could all document every single wrongiO headed decision DEC ever made. They are not listened to and instead a new bunchoL of incompetents is appointed to run the company every few years. I really doM feel sorry for the highly enthusiastic Compaq employees who continue to stick M their heads above the parapet even as they get shot at. And I know I do it to G but that's because the real culprits won't defend themselves in public.e  E >Had it not been for DECUS where I saw a version of Digital I had notlO >encounterered, I probably would have never been keen on pushing Digital, seing O >its potential, and fighting to try to get the level of service that I had seenr >other get.u  P DECUS until last year did still look a lot like the DECUS of 1980. Where it goes from here who knows.  N >I really see VMS as being downsized to the level of Tandem when each customerO >is a well known entity and when they have announcements to make, they go visittL >those customers individually because there aren't that many. At least thoseN >customers will get good service and other customers are getting the hint that6 >Compaq isn't interested in having them stay with VMS. >BN >That is the message I get. If that is not the message Compaq wants me to get,' >it is up to Compaq to change its ways.o  
 Well said!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:14:47 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 4 Subject: Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1: Message-ID: <Mogq8.2047$hU3.1355934@news20.bellglobal.com>  H Last year we moved from VAX to Alpha and had to abandon FAXSR because weG couldn't find Alpha binaries. In fact, OMTOOL was telling us to buy thei1 Windows-NT version and use a PC as a FAX gateway.f  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,e Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/m   *****n  1 <Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com> wrote in message : news:OF446AAE8F.EEF7F462-ON86256B8E.00614D07@midata.com...  8 Does anyone know if FAXSR 4.1-027 will run on VMS 7.3-1?  E We are currntly running FAXSR 4.1-027 on Alpha VMS 7.1-2.  We will benJ upgrading to VMS 7.3-1.  OMTOOL no longer supports their FAXSR product forB VMS, and will not answer any questions on it for the VMS platform.  G If you have tried to use this product on VMS 7.3-1, please let me know.d    
 Thank you,   Briony Schreiber Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:43:08 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> 4 Subject: RE: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CECE3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: FAX solutions on OpenVMS.d  C For those that want a FAX solution not susceptible to the virus andsH hacker attack of the day and that can be available if one system is down@ for whatever reason, then there is an OpenVMS based alternative:  + http://www.networkingdynamics.com/Compu.htmo   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Compaq Canada Corp.r Professional Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----1 From: Neil Rieck [mailto:n.rieck@sympatico.ca]=20' Sent: April 2, 2002 6:15 AMb To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml4 Subject: Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1    H Last year we moved from VAX to Alpha and had to abandon FAXSR because weG couldn't find Alpha binaries. In fact, OMTOOL was telling us to buy the-1 Windows-NT version and use a PC as a FAX gateway.r  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,u Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/s   *****B  1 <Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com> wrote in messagei: news:OF446AAE8F.EEF7F462-ON86256B8E.00614D07@midata.com...  8 Does anyone know if FAXSR 4.1-027 will run on VMS 7.3-1?  E We are currntly running FAXSR 4.1-027 on Alpha VMS 7.1-2.  We will be F upgrading to VMS 7.3-1.  OMTOOL no longer supports their FAXSR productF for VMS, and will not answer any questions on it for the VMS platform.  G If you have tried to use this product on VMS 7.3-1, please let me know.'    
 Thank you,   Briony Schreiber Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 04:16:48 -0800i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-8 Subject: Re: RE: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1( Message-ID: <a8c7fg08kf@drn.newsguy.com>  
 In articleP <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CECE3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, says...i >o >Re: FAX solutions on OpenVMS. >MD >For those that want a FAX solution not susceptible to the virus andI >hacker attack of the day and that can be available if one system is down A >for whatever reason, then there is an OpenVMS based alternative:  >r, >http://www.networkingdynamics.com/Compu.htm  P And I can personally recommend GoldFax which has reliably been sending thousands/ of faxes a week from VMS for us for many years.n  9 http://www.gold-fax.com/products/goldfax/VMS/gfVMmain.htm    >Regards >n >Kerry Maini >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036q >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comw >, >d >-----Original Message-----i2 >From: Neil Rieck [mailto:n.rieck@sympatico.ca]=20 >Sent: April 2, 2002 6:15 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >Subject: Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1v >  >nI >Last year we moved from VAX to Alpha and had to abandon FAXSR because weoH >couldn't find Alpha binaries. In fact, OMTOOL was telling us to buy the2 >Windows-NT version and use a PC as a FAX gateway. >  >Neil Rieck, >Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >Ontario, Canada.e" >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ >  >***** >e2 ><Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com> wrote in message; >news:OF446AAE8F.EEF7F462-ON86256B8E.00614D07@midata.com...  >c9 >Does anyone know if FAXSR 4.1-027 will run on VMS 7.3-1?s > F >We are currntly running FAXSR 4.1-027 on Alpha VMS 7.1-2.  We will beG >upgrading to VMS 7.3-1.  OMTOOL no longer supports their FAXSR product G >for VMS, and will not answer any questions on it for the VMS platform.3 >0H >If you have tried to use this product on VMS 7.3-1, please let me know. >  >  >Thank you,t >e >Briony Schreibera >Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com> >  >T   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 07:01:51 -0800 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)4 Subject: Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0204020701.2bffe8b3@posting.google.com>   F Also Goldfax by DPD (www.dpd.com or www.gold-fax.com) which we've usedF for many years (in fact after testing and discarding Omtool FaxSR overC its inability to handle HP/PCL emulation properly).  The NT versioneD gets most of the coverage on their site, but we have Goldfax running@ under both OpenVMS VAX and Alpha, versions 6.1 through 7.3, with@ overall good results (we do not use it for PCs though so I can't comment on that capability).     "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CECE3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...  > Re: FAX solutions on OpenVMS.N > E > For those that want a FAX solution not susceptible to the virus and J > hacker attack of the day and that can be available if one system is downB > for whatever reason, then there is an OpenVMS based alternative: > - > http://www.networkingdynamics.com/Compu.htm- > 	 > Regardsr >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanta > Compaq Canada Corp.0 > Professional Services@ > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Neil Rieck [mailto:n.rieck@sympatico.ca] 5 > Sent: April 2, 2002 6:15 AMp > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-1 >  > J > Last year we moved from VAX to Alpha and had to abandon FAXSR because weI > couldn't find Alpha binaries. In fact, OMTOOL was telling us to buy theP3 > Windows-NT version and use a PC as a FAX gateway.s >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,h > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/a >  > *****t > 3 > <Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com> wrote in messagec< > news:OF446AAE8F.EEF7F462-ON86256B8E.00614D07@midata.com... > : > Does anyone know if FAXSR 4.1-027 will run on VMS 7.3-1? > G > We are currntly running FAXSR 4.1-027 on Alpha VMS 7.1-2.  We will beAH > upgrading to VMS 7.3-1.  OMTOOL no longer supports their FAXSR productH > for VMS, and will not answer any questions on it for the VMS platform. > I > If you have tried to use this product on VMS 7.3-1, please let me know.t >  >  > Thank you, >  > Briony Schreiber  > Briony.Schreiber@metavante.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:24:58 +0100e- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>u4 Subject: Re: Seek information on FAXSR and VMS 7.3-11 Message-ID: <3CA9DB5A.F19A30BE@BlueBubble.UK.Com>    Alan Greig wrote:s   > In articleR > <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CECE3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main,	 > says...y > >C  > >Re: FAX solutions on OpenVMS. > >rF > >For those that want a FAX solution not susceptible to the virus andK > >hacker attack of the day and that can be available if one system is downjC > >for whatever reason, then there is an OpenVMS based alternative:. > >D. > >http://www.networkingdynamics.com/Compu.htm >wR > And I can personally recommend GoldFax which has reliably been sending thousands1 > of faxes a week from VMS for us for many years.  >n; > http://www.gold-fax.com/products/goldfax/VMS/gfVMmain.htm   + And I can personally recommend PMDF-FAX ...y  0 See:   http://www.process.com/tcpip/pmdffax.html  	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:53:01 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-o) Message-ID: <3CA9716D.56355F27@127.0.0.1>    Michael Austin wrote:l > F > Excuse me, but isn't the Daylight savings time the first *Sunday* inH > *April* -- which isn't until next week - April 7th -- at least that is@ > what it is here in the USA... Unless you guys are different...  G Hey try this. Not only do we cope with East and West coast USA time foroC North America (including Mountain Time), Europe and GB-Eire and theD@ consequential hour out for a week, but we combine it in a globalB operation with Australia, who's clocks go BACK it being their fall	 (autumn).   D It is the telephone switching systems that give us the headache, notD being dug out of bed cos there's someone more awake elsewhere on theD planet is a great concept, apart from the poor folks in Colorado :-)6 (Sorry guys, but you do a great job when we need you).   -- f( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:06:39 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-t, Message-ID: <3CA9ACDD.9FE5373E@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:m > R > People, don't worry, Hoff is not a computer-aided-instruction piece of hardware.  > I did meet him. He is real :-)  M How do you know Hoff didn't clone his brain to some VMS host at digital ? ThewK real Hoff may in fact already be in florida while his cloned counterpart isrO truly stuck 24/7 in some alpha box below a desk somewhere in massachussets. :-)l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:49:26 +00002 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :-e4 Message-ID: <20020402134926.A12322@eisenschmidt.org>   --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlinee+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablet  L You know, that's not as funny as it sounds. When I was first getting starte=L d I had the 'pleasure' of subcontracting to a large defense contractor here=L  in DC. The manager I reported to at my sub was never on site, we always ju=L st spoke on the phone. In fact, when I went for my interview he wasn't in t=L he office, and none of the other people I worked with had ever met him. We =L always used to get his voice mail ("Your call is being answered by AUDIX").=L  I finally convinced myself that he was just a plug-in for AUDIX, and that =L they had only licensed him for one incoming port on the T1. If he (or rathe=L r, the software that was him) was speaking to someone you got his voicemail= =20d  L I was there for about 4 months before I found another job. My last day was =L a Friday, and the Tuesday before who shows up to the client site but good o=L ld George, my manager. By that point I had built him up to be such an amazi=B ng piece of software that the human I met was, well, unimpressive.  L Unless the Voices are Mistaken, JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) Wro= te:a > Didier Morandi wrote:i > >=20L > > People, don't worry, Hoff is not a computer-aided-instruction piece of =	 hardware.p" > > I did meet him. He is real :-) >=20L > How do you know Hoff didn't clone his brain to some VMS host at digital ?=  TheL > real Hoff may in fact already be in florida while his cloned counterpart = isL > truly stuck 24/7 in some alpha box below a desk somewhere in massachusset= s. :-)   --=20r/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>s6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2   --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw' Content-Type: application/pgp-signature  Content-Disposition: inlineu   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----y Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)r* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE8qbbmH5fmozfjvvIRApWqAJ9OGfoqOVPvll8abIdtCFbASnkTfgCgjD3W W/wLq4z9ao7FHjMPlQHQooo= =6Nlaa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----i   --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw--   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 14:28:13 GMTu8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)= Subject: Re: Spring Forward, Fall Back - unfortunately not :- 3 Message-ID: <1ejq8.1755$fL6.36071@news.cpqcorp.net>l  # Repeating a previoius suggestion...i  5 On OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 (and later) systems the commandr  (     @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM SHOW  < will display information about time and time zone, including9 the setting of the new system parameter, AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV..  A By default, AUTO_DLIGHT_SAVE is off (0).  This preserves pre-V7.3 C behaviour, and avoids any problems, such as date-stamps. when time /' abruptly switches forward/back an hour.   I If you want the new behaviou, automatic daylight/standard time switching,n you should place the line        AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV = 1o  < in MODPARAMS (for all nodes in a cluster) and run AUTOGEN.    F There is some processing that is done differently at startup dependingF on whether AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is on or off.  I am not certain, but it mayL be necessary to re-boot.  Note that if you set time to test AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV,0 it will NOT work correctly if you set time BACK.   -- oK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAlH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:56:26 -0500l1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>a, Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.0A no longer supported?2 Message-ID: <3CA9C69A.EA58F027@clarityconnect.com>  G Please see the information at the following page and click on the Priorb, Version Support that applies to your locale.  6 http://www.compaq.com/services/software/ss_mature.html   Tom Simpson wrote: > L > I called in for help with an FTP problem last week and was told that there > was basicallyrI > nothing they could do since engineering no longer supports TCPIP V5.0A.D > G > This caught me by surprise.  Has anyone seen this mentioned anywhere?- > 
 > Regards, > Tomy   Jillye   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:36:59 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: TELNETSYM Errorsy? Message-ID: <20020402183659.3082.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>s  / I still having problems with TELNETSYM printerse in a specific network segment.  - Today I received the following message in ontc& of the printer. !!!! Any suggestions ?  4 Tue Apr  2 14:36:02 2002, perp_read_ast IOSB status: network partner disconnecte  d logical link4 Tue Apr  2 14:36:02 2002, output: operation canceled4 Tue Apr  2 14:36:02 2002, output: operation canceled4 Tue Apr  2 14:36:02 2002, output: operation canceled2 Tue Apr  2 14:36:02 2002, output_routine has no IO channel.0 Tue Apr  2 14:36:02 2002, The output buffer that couldn't be sent follows.a" Output Buffer Dump: (Length = 256) ===========\ D\ D\ A6                                                                         \ D\ Dt \ Av   End of Output Buffer Dumpr   =====g ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?/ Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxt http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:16:11 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>nN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-648 Message-ID: <s9siaugfifkpv8f5f0fna4pdou1f5mn51o@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:09:17 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >- >-M >Surely?  Given that Compaq has likely *already* generated well over 10 timespE >as many Tim O'Neills by first scrubbing NT on Alpha (after earnestlygJ >affirming its long-term commitment) - plus the attendant loss of Win64 onK >Alpha, then scrubbing Alpha itself (after, of course, even more earnestly,aL >repeatedly, and publicly affirming its long-term commitment), then entering  @ Here is a message I received on 1st June 2001 following email toD Richard Marcello regarding problems obtaining Alphaserver literature; from Compaq. It is worth pointing out that we are no longerAC considering Alpha/Tru64 for the SAP application below. Prior to the > response quoted below I received  a direct reply  from RichardB Marcello cc'd to Richard.George (Compaq UK Alpha business manager) saying O  	 "Richard,u% Can you help Alan get the right data?d   thanks,n Rich"y  F An interesting phrase given that I am led to believe that both RichardB George and Rich Marcello knew "the right data" by that point.. YetA still I was told by their underlings "over Compaq's commitment to-@ Alpha. there is no question as far as we are concerned regarding Compaq's commitment "m  A Rob, as I've asked you many times before, given Compaq's previous F written assurances (such as the one quoted below) why should I believeF a single word said now? You don't have an answer to that because there is no possible answer.     From Martin.Riley@compaq.com' Subject: Alphaserver Material Requestedm Date: 01/06/2001 11:35   Alan,e  F many thanks for taking the time to highlight the issue over materials. We theF AlphaServer group in Reading are seriously concerned in addressing the market@ places perception over Compaq's commitment to Alpha. there is no question as faroD as we are concerned regarding Compaq's commitment but we must ensure	 that thisiF is backed up by action from all areas of contact within Compaq. I willE personally see that appropriate materials are sent out, as long as wev have not* passed the sell by date on this situation.  A Please let me know your telephone number so we can discuss how tou
 retrieve this-> to the benefit of all concerned and addresses of where to send materials to.  I+ will take up the call centre issue as well.c   Regardsk   Martin  , AlphaServer Partner Marketing Manager, UK&I. Compaq Computer Ltd.   > Mobile:    07785 270435D$ >  eMail:    Martin.Riley@compaq.com  - From: GREIG, ALAN [mailto:alan_greig@fmc.com]c  # Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:46 PMV   To: Marcello, Richard (ZKO)n  4 Subject: Serious Alphaserver problems with Compaq UK           Richard,  @ A couple of days ago I requested Compaq UK send me all available
 literature   on  D Alphaserver and Storageworks products so I would have copies to give to our  C Norwegian IT group. I stated explicitly and very clearly that I did  not want   PC  B literature. I also stated explicitly that there could be a sizable orderS  	 involved.o  ? Today a letter arrived "thank you for contacting.... pleased to  enclose the    information you requested"  @ Trouble was the enclosed contents are ten assorted brochures for	 Proliant,t   iPAQ,p  ? Armada and TaskSmart. No mention of Alphaserver or Storageworkst	 anywhere.d  C On Monday I am supposed to try and convince our Norwegian operationd that   Compaq  F is serious about Alpha technology. How can I when Compaq do their best to   provea  
 otherwise.  > The letter was signed Tony Deans. Director Call Centre (Compaq Glasgow) and   an  E email just received tells me that we have been assigned a new accounta   managerc  F (Andrew Dickinson also Compaq Glasgow). As yet I have not been able to   contacta  
 him by phone.P  C Note: the number I originally called was the UK call centre on (UK)a 0845 270  F 4845 which is the number given on the back of the May 2001 Alphaserver   brochure  D from the UK Alphaserver group (Reading). So you call this number for follow   up  D info and receive Intel handouts in return. And I am told that Compaq senior  F management continue to wonder why customers are not convinced they are fullye  F behind Alpha. They should try being a customer for a while. If current Alpha   B customers get sent PC only handouts then it is very clear that non Alphaa  E customers will never see the Alpha literature *EVER* . Is this Compaqe  
 management  E again proving that they really do want to keep Alphaserver technologya off in   ac  @ corner or just continuing Compaq sales mismanagement? Either way highly  	 damaging.g    Hope you can address this issue.  
 Alan Greig   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:24:10 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>hN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-648 Message-ID: <fntiau88hg58cc1i6v5pid8b0r5o4h3hmv@4ax.com>  C On 1 Apr 2002 20:13:47 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)- wrote:   >e5 >	I came across one Alpha NT box in the last 6 years.(C >	How many people were actually using it?  Any idea about installede  B My you must have led a sheltered life :) We still have two runningD Ansys (finite element analysis) here and were considering purchasingC up to 40 NT XP1000s for this plant alone. (Ansys had already killedtE the VMS port on advice from Compaq not to "confuse the market place")s@ Potential up to 1000 worldwide. At my previous employer (AbertayD University Dundee) we had a number of Alpha NT Network servers whichA DEC advised us had a longer term future than VMS. Must I give then quote again?  A >	base size?  It couldn't have amounted to much and probably maden. >	the decision to scratch it that much easier.  F That's what DEC and Compaq just keeps telling itself but with a bigger5 lie every time. Working its way up to VMS bit by bit.h   >u >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:29:20 +0100r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-648 Message-ID: <nauiau81cqi8ckpmbhfe8pff4rp2d1igte@4ax.com>  0 On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:44:48 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:   >:E >CSWS offers Galaxy shared memory support and file system support foreH >saving state information, apache$specifc and apache$common cluster file
 >access etc. M >SE >Put a rack of DS10's in place and change 1 file in apache$common and F >they automatically all take advantage of this as it is the same file.D >For server specific files, put the file in apache$specific. Put twoH >racks in place for multi-site load balancing (one at each site) against> >a multi-site, load balanced active-active clustered database.  0 Which is why www.compaq.com runs on VMS eh? Even/ www.openvms.compaq.com is just a single system.e   >c >Surely you knew this - right? >6	 >Regards,7 >d >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036p >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comp >d >  >-----Original Message-----e* >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]  >Sent: April 1, 2002 3:35 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to  >IA-64 >  > G >Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you a F >license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost likeI >trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you wantt >a reliable web server.1 >e >g >D >3 >D7 >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message I >news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.. >net.. >. >John, > ? >Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.o >t2 >Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb); >http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=915 CA IngresfI >http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -dG >potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high " >availability features of OpenVMS)F >http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htmG >Mimer/OpenVMS Guide http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.htmlxD >Cache on OpenVMS benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their- >plans to support OpenVMS on Itanium as well)l > 	 >Regards,  >e >b >Kerry Main- >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036> >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comF >  >k >-----Original Message-----s) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]i >Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PMu >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha toe >IA-64 >7 >- >t; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messagey' >news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca...n >>A >> It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines and cA >> eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix.o >>G >> It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain a hD >> good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way. >>E >> Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that thec >integrationF >> isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoff >additionalsI >> staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus  >f >> ond >its >> core incompetancies.c > H >The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it firstE >is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that are I >sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase hasDB >killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. InformixG >doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent,r >but a huge number are.  >iE >So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.oI >Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64 A >etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another averagedI >performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. OnceaH >Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOLH >the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers toG >new customers = no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle ore >Rdb = no VMS. > E >You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CAnG >would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.o >sG >Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendiC >over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.d >  >m >u   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:57:08 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>nN Subject: RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E01@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  3 <<< Which is why www.compaq.com runs on VMS eh? >>>h  F Nope. That decision was made by other business units within Compaq.=20  H Like many decisions made by many depts in any large company, the reasons? for choosing a particular technology are often not based on the.% technology itself. No surprise there.u  D Does that mean the reasons for choosing a particular technology will" also apply to all other Customers?  F Of course not. Every Customer has to evaluate technology options based on their own requirements.  ; >>> Even www.openvms.compaq.com is just a single system.<<<.  6 And for its requirement, serves its purpose very well.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant- Compaq Canada Corp.= Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660: Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----/ From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]=20l Sent: April 2, 2002 4:29 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4H Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64o    H On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:44:48 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:   >oH >CSWS offers Galaxy shared memory support and file system support for=20H >saving state information, apache$specifc and apache$common cluster file   >access etc. >-H >Put a rack of DS10's in place and change 1 file in apache$common and=20I >they automatically all take advantage of this as it is the same file.=20eG >For server specific files, put the file in apache$specific. Put two=20jH >racks in place for multi-site load balancing (one at each site) against  > >a multi-site, load balanced active-active clustered database.  G Which is why www.compaq.com runs on VMS eh? Even www.openvms.compaq.coma is just a single system.   >( >Surely you knew this - right? >n	 >Regards,F >  >Kerry Mainu >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036  >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comr >y >m >-----Original Message-----N) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]y >Sent: April 1, 2002 3:35 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to >IA-64 >f >0J >Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you a=20I >license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost like=20wG >trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you=20h >want a reliable web server. >D >H >A >  > : >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message=20H >news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp >. >net.h >. >John, >S? >Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.e >o5 >Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)=20 @ >http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=3D915 CA Ingres=20J >http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release=20G >- potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain=20 * >high availability features of OpenVMS)=20F >http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htmG >Mimer/OpenVMS Guide http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.htmltG >Cache on OpenVMS benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their=209- >plans to support OpenVMS on Itanium as well)e >f	 >Regards,  >  >l >Kerry Maind >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036s >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comt >  >  >-----Original Message-----n) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]e >Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha=20s	 >to IA-64n >i >e >o> >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message=20' >news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca...0 >>@ >> It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines andA >> eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix.l >>F >> It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain aD >> good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way. >>E >> Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the0 >integrationF >> isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoff >additional0F >> staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and=20 >> focus >l >> on  >its >> core incompetancies.p >tH >The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it first  H >is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that are=20H >sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase=20I >has killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. Informix=20 J >doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent,=20 >but a huge number are.  >tH >So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.=20F >Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers.=20J >IA-64 etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another average=20G >performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products.=20pD >Once Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS,=20I >they'll EOL the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of=20eG >db servers to new customers =3D no reason to continue to develop for =2 VMS.   >No Oracle or Rdb =3D no VMS.@ >rH >You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CA=20G >would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.i >NJ >Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bend=20C >over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.t >  >c >s   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:21:51 -0500,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>oN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <3CA9B06D.8B1D6070@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:tH > An interesting phrase given that I am led to believe that both RichardD > George and Rich Marcello knew "the right data" by that point.. YetC > still I was told by their underlings "over Compaq's commitment toaB > Alpha. there is no question as far as we are concerned regarding > Compaq's commitment "     M But did they explicitely state that the commitment was to continue to developRL Alpha ? Perhaps to them, there was no question as far as they were concerned+ that Compaq was committed to Alpha's death.   G Of course, at the time you read those emails, you saw "commitment" as acL commitment to continue Alpha. But in hindsight, their selection of words was quite interesting.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Apr 2002 06:08:14 -0800r( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204020608.29b853a7@posting.google.com>    "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...n > John,r > I > >>> It's almost like trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMSi1 > when you say you want a reliable web server.<<<n >  > Hey, that's easy.  > > > CSWS, OSU or WASD .. And perhaps even Purveyor (right Bob?)  >   
 that's right!q   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:14:01 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-640 Message-ID: <3CA9D765.CCC5D6BE@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:e    > J > As I see it, the biggest problem with VMS is the perceived commitment ofL > the current, and potential owners. Compaq should be shot for their failureI > to market the OS, and HP have been silent about it suggesting they willR > follow this lead.n  eC Realistically, if they WANT to turn VMS around, they are gonna have A to get down on their knees and grovel about how much of a mistake  affinity etc was.r   Regardsp   -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:55:57 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64H Message-ID: <xolq8.34908$09u.18711@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Kerry,  K I know all this.  I've been using VMS since 1980, and other DEC gear beforel that.n  K The issue I'm grousing about is the fact that when a customer comes callingaL on Compaq for a reliable, cost effective solution, it's Proliant and WindowsJ that's the first solution shown, then perhaps (in the past now) Tru64, and finally VMS, in that order..  A You, and a very *small* number of your Compaq cohorts are in facthJ knowledgeable enough to discuss in an intelligent manner the merits of VMSI with prospective and current customers, But there aren't enough of you ton sustain the product.  L Without the critical mass of installed sites, new sales to a wide and variedD customer base, not enough sane ISV's are going to spend the money to" develop/market apps/tools for VMS.  L It isn't enough for Comapq to have 400 'global' accounts, because the globalG accounts all want the ISV's to bend over on pricing. ISV's need a largeoL number of unrelated customers who can't rape them. Unfortuantely, that meansJ they rely on Compaq to get VMS systems in the door in the first place, andH with Compaq not doing that in a serious way we get caught in the viciousL 'what comes first' cycle. No apps = no VMS sales, no VMS sales = no apps. In far too K many app/tool categories, users have only 1 choice rather than the plethora # of apps/tools available under unix.r  L And when that sole choice is that software category is expensive, or doesn'tE offer advanced features or keep up with changes in the industry, thenyL management says ' why are we doing this??'. We can advance all the argumentsH we want about security, reliability, ease of management, etc..'til we'reF blue in the face, but in the end, managment will say that we can throwB another body at the problem (ie. a junior/senior unix developer orE administrator) because they are pissed-off at having to deal with the I bullshit Compaq business strategy towards OpenVMS is (or appears to be tol8 the VAST majority of the still remaining VMS customers).  G Look, I greatly appreciate ALL you do in this ng, and I'm sure that youtI carry yourself with the same dignity and professionalism in your dealingseF with every customer and prospect you encounter. I just wish Compaq hadF 10,000 more like you who would sell VMS diligently. I wish that CompaqH understood that there is a huge number of former VMS customers who wouldL come back if they had some *real* reasson to believe that they weren't going4 to be shafted by Compaq if they did. That's the rub.  F I have a favor to ask - post the personal e-mail addresses of Capella,H Winckler, et al in this forum and we'll all flood their inboxes with ourJ complaints. Why? Because there aren't enough good guys like you calling onJ customers everyday, because  Houston doesn't understand that they've got a problem.  L Compaq has been behaving like many of the PC/low-end software companies whenK you call their support lines with a complaint - the call centre person says H that they aren't allowed to take complaints and forward them up the foodK chain. Ergo, management doesn't hear about thing it should because a lot ofeL those customers get sufficently pissed off at the experience that they don'tL bother to make the 2nd or 3rd call required to get the message upstairs. WhyK should we have to do that? So, since your managers don't listen to you, andnD theirs don't listen to them, give us the contact info and we'll tellJ Capellas to his face. If he doesn't like what his customers are saying, heA can fix it, or quit and give the job to somebody who will fix it.t      6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. John,   G >>> It's almost like trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMSl/ when you say you want a reliable web server.<<<r   Hey, that's easy.s  ; CSWS, OSU or WASD .. And perhaps even Purveyor (right Bob?)1  D CSWS offers Galaxy shared memory support and file system support forG saving state information, apache$specifc and apache$common cluster filem access etc.r  D Put a rack of DS10's in place and change 1 file in apache$common andE they automatically all take advantage of this as it is the same file.yC For server specific files, put the file in apache$specific. Put two G racks in place for multi-site load balancing (one at each site) againstt= a multi-site, load balanced active-active clustered database.y   Surely you knew this - right?1   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Compaq Canada Corp.i Professional Services5 Voice: 613-592-4660F Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] Sent: April 1, 2002 3:35 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComdH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64e    F Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you aE license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost like H trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you want a reliable web server.          6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .  John,   > Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.  1 Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)o: http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=915 CA IngresH http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -F potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high! availability features of OpenVMS)tE http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htm-F Mimer/OpenVMS Guide http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.htmlC Cache on OpenVMS benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their , plans to support OpenVMS on Itanium as well)   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.o Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComtH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64       : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca... >>? > It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines andM@ > eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix. >oE > It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain alC > good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way.n >SD > Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the integration E > isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoffp
 additionalH > staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focus   > on itse > core incompetancies.  G The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it first D is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that areH sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase hasA killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. Informix F doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent, but a huge number are.  D So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.H Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64@ etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another averageH performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. OnceG Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOL-G the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers to@F new customers = no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle or
 Rdb = no VMS.I  D You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CAF would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.  F Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendB over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:42:55 +0100.T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64& Message-ID: <3CA9DF8F.5050309@sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  ^ > In article <3CA8DB09.6BAFDD20@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >  > C >>But when you look at what is left of the active VMS customer liste >> > A > 	Oh... you mean that tiny group that makes up nearly $4 billion5A > 	in total revs and several hundred million in profit each year?- > 	 > 				Robs >     E Rob where do you think most of the profits and revenues come from ???  Hardware ??          Nob Software ??          NoT Services ??          Yes  > Its the anuity based revenues that are the largest part of the; pie and the most profitable and these are the revenues that ; are least effected decommitment from a product line. If youe< are 1 year into a 3 year service contract on a platform that; will take 2 years to turn off your revenue stream is pretty B safe in the short term. HP's management could realistically assumeA that OpenVMS services revenues would remain relatively boyant ande) profitable some time after OpenVMS's EOL.i  < If you were looking for a quick rationalistion PR win, while< waiting for the next big thing to come along to distract the8 analysts which would not kill your profitability OpenVMS9 would be very high up my list along with Tru64. If eithero> goes so does the other because in the short term the economics% don't work without a shared platform.S     Regardsa   Andrew HarrisonC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:37:52 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <3CA9EC6F.6A453D4D@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:aL > complaints. Why? Because there aren't enough good guys like you calling onL > customers everyday, because  Houston doesn't understand that they've got a
 > problem.  E Houston is fully aware of what is going on. And it is right on targetdE according to their plans. You may not agree with their plan, but theyb understand what is going on.  N > Compaq has been behaving like many of the PC/low-end software companies when0 > you call their support lines with a complaint   M That is because Compaq *IS* a PC company. Always been, and will be to the endoM in a few weeks. Pfeiffer was fired for trying to do otherwise. Capellas isn't:P stupid. He can't get fired for choosing Microsoft and pretending to imitate IBM.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 18:22:26 GMTi( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>& Subject: VAX6000 Survey at OpenVMS.org= Message-ID: <CFmq8.2583$pe6.1822987@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>S  G This survey is at the request of Compaq HPS (High Performance Systems)./  D The audience for this questionnaire are VAX installed base customers
 worldwide.  I This simple 6 question survey is to help Compaq understand the number and I geographic dispersement of VAX6000 series machines in use today, how they F are being used and basic reason(s) why customers are staying with this particular technology.  ' The survey will be up until April 15th.m  9 http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Survey_Introduction   7 Send comments or questions to:  kfarmer at openvms.org.r     --  
 Ken Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPTC.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:23:19 +0200.= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>l) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansS) Message-ID: <3CA95C67.D73D17E9@gtech.com>    Alan Greig wrote: D > On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) > wrote:D > >We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 ClusterI > >environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0lF > >running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or; > >similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks0 > A > Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want tohG > migrate to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away?nH > Last I checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish inF > favour of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd beC > inclined to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq'sdH > recent behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but > start a migration now?  
 I 100% agree.e  F Unless you are very keen on doing platform migrations, then you should@ wait and see the dust settle, before doing something like this !   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:14:41 +0200' From: "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com>c) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planst% Message-ID: <3ca97681$1@news.post.ch>=  # Or straight back to mainfraime, no?l   --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninionnA and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyS    : "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag% news:3CA8AFE9.705150EA@caltech.edu...o > Jakob Erber wrote: > >i5 > > We are also planning to migrate to Tru64, resons:c' > > 1) End of support for Sybase on VMSnA > > 2) End of support for Ada83 on VMS after migration to Itaniuma > >tJ > > we asume, that porting from Tru64 to what UNIX comes after the merger, will > > not be such a big effort.z >< > You're kidding, right? >o& > Why migrate twice when once will do? >oG > Tru64 is already under the wheels of the truck - merger or no merger.o >nI > Unless you absolutely must recycle the existing high end Alpha hardwarebI > you'd (both) be much better off moving to AIX, Solaris, or HPUX.  (Evenb% > Linux, if that will do it for you.)b >h
 > Regards, >" > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:16:39 +0200' From: "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com>s) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans % Message-ID: <3ca976f7$1@news.post.ch>e  K We are not switching compiler vendor to stick with Ada83, we think Gnat AdapI is more at home at Unix, then on VMS. Compaq not supporting Ada83 on VMS,i# was actually only the last tricker.A   regardsn   Jakobt   --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion-A and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyB    @ "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag- news:Qu9734LzGenC@eisner.encompasserve.org...2K > In article <3ca8907e$1_1@news.tiscalinet.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <no@spam.com>m writes:n5 > > We are also planning to migrate to Tru64, resons:@' > > 1) End of support for Sybase on VMSnA > > 2) End of support for Ada83 on VMS after migration to Itaniumo >lC > If you are switching compiler vendors to stay with Ada83, that is B > a mistake.  The (many) reasons to stay with Compaq Ada relate to@ > the fact that I have existing code (and build procedures) thatF > are well tested with that compiler, not due to language enhancements > in Ada95.b   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:09:55 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>.) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlanswT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DFD@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Dirk,h  C I am not saying there is not room for improvement, but the folks ateF Oracle doing the OpenVMS specific work have improved a great deal over. what was available in the past. As an example:    D >>> And what is even worse, try to find some kind of manual or whiteB paper telling you how to set up Oracle applications on VMS in this
 situation.<<<-  C From Metalink (Oracles Tech Database) - Oracle 9i Release Notes for  OpenVMS:=20c   +++    Platform-Specific Documentation-  A The Oracle9i Administrator's Reference for Alpha OpenVMS, and themE Oracle9i Installation Guide for Alpha OpenVMS are available online on7E the Oracle9i software CD-ROM. To access the documentation in HTML and0$ PDF formats, use any web browser.=20 ..  8 Oracle9i includes online documentation for the following OpenVMS-specific guides:=20   ( Oracle9i Release Notes for Alpha OpenVMS- Oracle9i Installation Guide for Alpha OpenVMSo4 Oracle9i Administrator's Reference for Alpha OpenVMS   +++o  , Also, reference the following from MetaLink: Doc ID: Note:156484.16? Subject: VMS: System tuning recommendations for new 8i/9i RDBMSu   +++ , Also, reference the following from MetaLink: Doc ID: Note:156294.1a  E Hard copy guides are not included in the release kit. Order hard-copyo+ documents using the following part numbers:t  D A90868-01 Oracle9i Server and Tools Administrator's Guide, Release 1$           (9.0.1) for Alpha OpenVMS.A A90869-01 Oracle9i Installation Guide Release 1 (9.0.1) for Alphaa OpenVMS.F A90870-01 Oracle9i Release Notes, Release 1 (9.0.1) for Alpha OpenVMS.= A95129-01 Oracle Real Application Cluster Addendum, Release 1r$           (9.0.1) for Alpha OpenVMS. ++++   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantu Compaq Canada Corp.h Professional Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----( From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]=20 Sent: April 2, 2002 1:30 AMV To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planso    F Again, that is all true. But no matter which of these solutions one=20F takes, the simple matter remains that it is not possible to setup a=20H simple bread-and -butter Oracle application on VMS anymore, the same way  H as you would do it with Unix. And that is a very, very weak point for=20D VMS. Try to explain this to customers, account managers, software=20- developers etc. Almost impossible I'm afraid.   I And what is even worse, try to find some kind of manual or white paper=20oJ telling you how to set up Oracle applications on VMS in this situation.=20H There is nothing there, not from Oracle, not from Compaq. Customers have  I to find out for themselves. We do get nice letters from Oracle telling=20eH us that their products will be supported on VMS, but this problem is not  ? addressed. Doesn't this sound like a marketing problem to you ?   D For (upgrade) customers the present situation looks like a doctor=20H telling his patient in a cheerful way "Hey, we will take away your legs,  B but have you seen those smart wheelchairs they have these days ?".   Regards,   Dirk   =20    Main, Kerry wrote:   >Dirk, >bJ >Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps on=20I >OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) to=20aE >use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced=20   >Oracle OPS back end on OpenVMS. >eE >If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fully=20aH >protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as the=20H >back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail over=20H >only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers on=201 >OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database.r >hG >Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have in=20d- >place and how much availability you require.n > 	 >Regards,a >h >Kerry Maint >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036  >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.coms >n >l >-----Original Message-----n& >From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] >Sent: April 1, 2002 4:41 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >t >rE >That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional OracleyH >Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of=20H >support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or you  H >need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is  F >a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need to >AG >migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 ory@ >Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !! >eH >Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at=20 >the >l	 >moment).n >1	 >Regards,a >$ >Dirka >  >y >Main, Kerry wrote:k >d >>Alan,f >>B >>Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMS@ >>(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platform >>-t >>I >>The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC =3D Oracle Parallel Server) =a isC >>direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT=20CJ >>platforms is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of=20 >>dealing with raw devices etc.K >>E >>Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file=20l >>system >> >]G >>for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch,T/ >>print queues, user files, config files etc ..  >> >>:-)A >>H >>Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in aI >>multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick=20 A >>in. We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now  becausee >> >w: >>of 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects. >>B >>Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site. >>G >>Reference: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/V >>@ >>Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need fullH >>read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all=20I >>sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests=20tD >>across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume a=20G >>active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS=20i	 >>offers.n >>G >>Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oraclec3 >>9i RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment.a >>
 >>Regards, >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultant  >>Compaq Canada Corp.a >>Professional Servicesi >>Voice: 613-592-4660C >>Fax  :  819-772-7036 >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >> >> >>-----Original Message-----. >>From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] >>Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0+ >>Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansc >> >>D >>On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) >>wrote: >> >>[posted and mailed]t >>G >>>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster=20kH >>>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster=20 >>>5.0 >>>  > F >>>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or; >>>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks  >>>mD >>Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to=20	 >>migrate  >> >sF >>to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last IH >>checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favour  H >>of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined  D >>to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent=20G >>behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start  at >> >o >>migration now? >>E >>Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustuF >>Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical=20
 >>missing? >>2 >>Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at: >>H >>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_A >>Rl >>CO >>HITECTURE.RAMt >>-- >>Alan >> >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:34:15 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>b) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansr8 Message-ID: <a02jaukov27062kvs95sj6qie8n55qj461@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:05:14 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  wrote:   >@F >Just a pity when we asked Compaq about the feasibility of running SAPG >on Tru64 with a load balanced VMS Oracle OPS back end, SAP, Oracle andaE >Compaq all replied "not supported". Can't you hear these nails beingI4 >hammered into the coffin by your lords and masters?  E Oh,  and  talking of "lords and masters", were not Michael Capellas'se? last three employers SAP, Oracle and Compaq funnily enough? But B obviously he has no influence with any of them. Or perhaps he justF doesn't give a flying duck about VMS. Nah, couldn't be the last option	 could it?7   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:05:14 +0100.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans 8 Message-ID: <u40jausr6oo764onvafcnd916f28riu9fb@4ax.com>  0 On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:56:17 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:   >Dirk, >rG >Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps ondF >OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) toI >use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced Oracle  >OPS back end on OpenVMS.   E Just a pity when we asked Compaq about the feasibility of running SAPeF on Tru64 with a load balanced VMS Oracle OPS back end, SAP, Oracle andD Compaq all replied "not supported". Can't you hear these nails being3 hammered into the coffin by your lords and masters?a  B >If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fullyE >protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as the E >back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail overfE >only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers onc1 >OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database.t >gD >Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have in- >place and how much availability you require.   E Strangely we consider whether the configuration is actually supportedh? more important than whether you can somehow cobble it together.S   > 	 >Regards,  >r >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036e >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comg >l >y >-----Original Message------' >From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] 6 >Sent: April 1, 2002 4:41 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >l > F >That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional Oracle F >Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of I >support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or you gI >need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is sI >a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need toa >tH >migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 or @ >Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !! >rI >Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at thet >r	 >moment).s > 	 >Regards,n >r >Dirkg >  >t >Main, Kerry wrote:- >- >>Alan,- >>C >>Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMS eI >>(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platform2 >>-e >>I >>The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC = Oracle Parallel Server) is  A >>direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT aH >>platforms is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of  >>dealing with raw devices etc.a >>I >>Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file systemo >,H >>for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch, / >>print queues, user files, config files etc ..l >> >>:-)i >>I >>Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in a  G >>multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick aI >>in. We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now becausem > : >>of 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects. >>B >>Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site. >>G >>Reference: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/7 >>A >>Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need full jF >>read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all G >>sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests  B >>across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume a E >>active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS  	 >>offers.e >>H >>Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle 3 >>9i RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment.m >>
 >>Regards, >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultantk >>Compaq Canada Corp.  >>Professional Servicesv >>Voice: 613-592-4660P >>Fax  :  819-772-7036 >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >> >> >>-----Original Message-----. >>From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] >>Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + >>Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansn >> >>D >>On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) >>wrote: >> >>[posted and mailed]m >>D >>>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 ClusterI >>>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0c >RG >>>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or  ; >>>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanksi >>>s >>I >>Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to migratee >sG >>to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last I eI >>checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favour  I >>of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined  B >>to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent I >>behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start af >  >>migration now? >>F >>Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trust D >>Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical 
 >>missing? >>2 >>Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at: >>I >>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_ARb >>Co >>HITECTURE.RAMh >>-- >>Alan >>   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:38:19 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>u) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CECE2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  ? >>> Strangely we consider whether the configuration is actuallyh? supported more important than whether you can somehow cobble ite together.<<<  H The config's I stated in the previous thread are supported by Oracle ie.B mid tier NT/UNIX app servers with VMS back end Oracle databases or+ BEA/IONA app servers with Oracle back ends.r   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantb Compaq Canada Corp.f Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----/ From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]=20w Sent: April 2, 2002 5:05 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans4    H On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:56:17 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:   >Dirk, >mJ >Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps on=20I >OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) to=20aE >use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced=20   >Oracle OPS back end on OpenVMS.  H Just a pity when we asked Compaq about the feasibility of running SAP onC Tru64 with a load balanced VMS Oracle OPS back end, SAP, Oracle andKD Compaq all replied "not supported". Can't you hear these nails being3 hammered into the coffin by your lords and masters?A  E >If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fully=20sH >protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as the=20H >back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail over=20H >only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers on=201 >OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database.r >eG >Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have in=20c- >place and how much availability you require.n  E Strangely we consider whether the configuration is actually supportedn? more important than whether you can somehow cobble it together.l   > 	 >Regards,l >  >Kerry Mainv >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036y >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comi >c >e >-----Original Message-----e& >From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] >Sent: April 1, 2002 4:41 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >m >sE >That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional OraclelH >Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of=20H >support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or you  H >need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is  F >a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need to >sG >migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 or1@ >Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !! >oH >Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at=20 >the >e	 >moment).0 > 	 >Regards,p >M >Dirk1 >0 >r >Main, Kerry wrote:  >s >>Alan,d >>B >>Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMS@ >>(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMS platform >>-  >>I >>The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC =3D Oracle Parallel Server) =- isC >>direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT=20 J >>platforms is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of=20 >>dealing with raw devices etc.a >>E >>Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file=20m >>system >mG >>for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch,l/ >>print queues, user files, config files etc ..y >> >>:-)  >>H >>Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in aI >>multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick=20pA >>in. We have a number of Customers currently looking at this nown becausea >r: >>of 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects. >>B >>Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site. >>G >>Reference: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/i >>@ >>Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need fullH >>read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all=20I >>sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests=20uD >>across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume a=20G >>active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS=20a	 >>offers.v >>G >>Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle 3 >>9i RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment.i >>
 >>Regards, >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultant  >>Compaq Canada Corp.t >>Professional Servicese >>Voice: 613-592-4660e >>Fax  :  819-772-7036 >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >> >> >>-----Original Message-----. >>From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] >>Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma+ >>Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansi >> >>D >>On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston) >>wrote: >> >>[posted and mailed]e >>G >>>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster=20bH >>>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster=20 >>>5.0 >iF >>>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or; >>>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks1 >>>- >>D >>Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to=20	 >>migrateM >aF >>to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last IH >>checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favour  H >>of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined  D >>to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent=20G >>behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but starta a  >y >>migration now? >>E >>Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustnF >>Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical=20
 >>missing? >>2 >>Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at: >>H >>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_A >>R1 >>Cn >>HITECTURE.RAMM >>-- >>Alan >>   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:15:29 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planse, Message-ID: <3CA9AEEF.BC884110@videotron.ca>   Dave Weatherall wrote:1 > Because you've got the hardware already, maybe.   M But that hardware is needed to run your business on VMS while you work on they* converted applications on a new target OS.  N Lets assume that your company wants to stay with HP. Your best bet would be toK wait until HP-UX is available/stable on the slow IA64 thing, at which pointlF you would start to port.  You might also want to wait for some form ofK confirmation of whether HP-UX will be little or big endian on IA64 onc  thes! bits from Tru64 are "integrated".n  N Perhaps in a few weeks, Carly will clear some of the mud, but right now, thereL is way too much uncertainty to make any commitments to HP/Digital platforms.  M If you must port NOW, then choose a platform you can count on, and that meansr Solaris or IBM's AIX.o   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:55:31 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planss+ Message-ID: <a8cd8j$1f1$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>c  ` In article <pgtgau0ljqcn9ndlcltv91rls04rr5gv2p@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:C >On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston)t >wrote:s >2 >[posted and mailed] >WC >>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 ClusterrH >>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0E >>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this ori: >>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks >,  E We'll be doing something similar soon but haven't really started yet.s  @ >Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want toF >migrate to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away?G >Last I checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish inME >favour of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd belB >inclined to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq'sG >recent behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production buti >start a migration now?n >uD >Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustB >Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical	 >missing?s >y  N In our case the fact that Tru64 won't be ported to IA64 doesn't really matter.O (Personally I'd have been much happier if Compaq had continued supporting Alpha + since I doubt IA64 has much future anyway).tG In three or four years time we'll move to something else either anotheraN Unix or (Some in management probably really believe this) the latest Microsoft OS.rM The driver for Tru64 was it being an Oracle tier one port and Oracle's use ofn= the Tru64 clustering software + applications being available.iM The driver from VMS is applications. (The idea of using VMS as a backend with 3 UNIX as the middle tier cuts no ice unfortunately).V   N If we were starting to look again today then we might reconsider Tru64 but the" decisions were made sometime ago.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    K Disclaimer: The opinions represented above are personal opinions and do not>5 represent the official views of Middlesex University.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:24:06 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>n) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansnT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E05@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   David,  A >>> The driver for Tru64 was it being an Oracle tier one port andnB Oracle's use of the Tru64 clustering software + applications being available. <<<  @ And where did Tru64 cluster sw come from? Hint - a subset of VMSD Clustering. Keep in mind that Oracle 9i RAC new feature is basicallyF direct IO to a clustered file system - something OpenVMS has had for a1 long time and from which Oracle OPS began on. :-)u  F One also has to look at items like clustered batch systems, user files etc ..  C On the applications side, with the growing popularity of Java among7H ISV's (SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle and list goes on..) and Universities, theE platform choice becomes much less of an issue and one is more free toS@ choose the OS based on issues like RASS issues and multi-site is  becoming a critical requirement.  H Of course, basic HW/SW replication (and their risks) might be acceptableE for your environment, but if higher availability is required, ask any H other vendor how they plan to implement Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS)F in a multi-site active-active cluster. Hint - if they use the "R" word9 (replication) then it is not an active-active cluster.=20w  E And while many on this list talk about a lack of OpenVMS programmers,d; with Universities moving to replace C and C++ with Java, itlA automatically positions a whole bunch more future programmers ford& OpenVMS (and other OS's of course).=20  D Reference: While Java is not without issues, the following does show some strong trends:aB http://news.com.com/2009-1001-868454.html?tag=3Ddd.ne.dtx.nl-sty.0  < Quote>  "That trend is reflected in academia as well. At theF Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the computer science departmentB in 1997 replaced Microsoft's C++ with Java as the primary software> language that students are required to learn. This spring, theE University of California at Berkeley offered 25 Java courses and only  seven on Microsoft languages.r  A "In my mind, Java is rapidly going to displace all the languages,SF particularly C++," MIT associate professor Daniel Jackson said, notingE that undergraduate students are increasingly teaching themselves some7G Java even before attending his classes. In two years, the College Board-H will switch from C++ to Java for the computer science advanced placementD tests that high school students take to get credit for college-level courses." <end quote  7 Case in point - recent new Java apps certed on OpenVMS: ) http://www.onexchange.com/press112601.aspi< http://www.lutris.com/company/pressReleases/Press020204.html0 http://www.dataglider.com/solutions/openvms.html3 http://www.imsurenetwork.com/Solutions_B2BFlex.htmla   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp., Professional Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----C From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk]=20d Sent: April 2, 2002 8:56 AMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com)) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansi    C In article <pgtgau0ljqcn9ndlcltv91rls04rr5gv2p@4ax.com>, Alan Greig  <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:C >On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston)a >wrote:> >  >[posted and mailed] > F >>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster=20H >>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster 5.0  H >>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this or=20: >>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks >   E We'll be doing something similar soon but haven't really started yet.a  H >Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to migrate  H >to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last I=20J >checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favour=20J >of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclined=20C >to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent=20pH >behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start a   >migration now?e >:G >Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trust=20iE >Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical=20e	 >missing?a >t  F In our case the fact that Tru64 won't be ported to IA64 doesn't reallyF matter. (Personally I'd have been much happier if Compaq had continuedH supporting Alpha since I doubt IA64 has much future anyway). In three orC four years time we'll move to something else either another Unix ortF (Some in management probably really believe this) the latest MicrosoftA OS. The driver for Tru64 was it being an Oracle tier one port and B Oracle's use of the Tru64 clustering software + applications beingF available. The driver from VMS is applications. (The idea of using VMSE as a backend with UNIX as the middle tier cuts no ice unfortunately).e =20aF If we were starting to look again today then we might reconsider Tru64, but the decisions were made sometime ago.=20    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    G Disclaimer: The opinions represented above are personal opinions and dot9 not represent the official views of Middlesex University.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 18:56:45 +0200R From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans & Message-ID: <3CA9E2CD.1070400@home.nl>   Kerry,  C I agree these books are an improvement. I've printed and read them u> partly.  In fact we have even "cracked" the Oracle 9i generic I documentation CD in such a way that it can be accessed from VMS with the  " help of Compaq Secure Web Server. I (copy ISO9660 CD to ODS5 LD device. Since that will change the directory dG names, run a script that will patch all URL's in the HTML files to the >I correct directory name). We can produce a VMS Oracle 9i documentation CD  	 now :-) .o  E But we are not talking about improvement here. The problem is that a oI vital part of a conventional Oracle application setup (the forms server) aI has been removed from the product set. And we are left in the dark about  I the question how to set up an application in this new situation. That is  @ were my pain is. Setting up Windooz or Unix front ends is not a B solution. In many cases there is absolutely no reason to keep the I database on VMS in such a situation. And don't forget about the costs to  I keep the front-end systems up too. And if Compaq doesn't understand this iG problem, than Compaq has a very big problem itself. Over the past year sF or so I have tried to make this clear to you, to other Compaq people, D and even in person to Mark Gorham during a long talk I had with him.  F I don't mind advising customers to go for a web based solution, but I F really would like to have some idea how to set it up with VMS. I like C new techniques, I like to implement them, I like to advice them to iE customers. But I also like software suppliers to give me a good idea yH about what to do, and what to advise.  So please Compaq and Oracle, get G your act together and tell us how to set up Oracle web applications on SG VMS now that Oracle Forms 4.5 has been retired. Otherwise you (Compaq) 0 will loose customers !!    Regards,   Dirk     Main, Kerry wrote:   >Dirk, >pD >I am not saying there is not room for improvement, but the folks atG >Oracle doing the OpenVMS specific work have improved a great deal over2/ >what was available in the past. As an example:i >t >lD >>>>And what is even worse, try to find some kind of manual or white >>>>C >paper telling you how to set up Oracle applications on VMS in this  >situation.<<< > D >From Metalink (Oracles Tech Database) - Oracle 9i Release Notes for
 >OpenVMS:  >e >+++ >b  >Platform-Specific Documentation >rB >The Oracle9i Administrator's Reference for Alpha OpenVMS, and theF >Oracle9i Installation Guide for Alpha OpenVMS are available online onF >the Oracle9i software CD-ROM. To access the documentation in HTML and# >PDF formats, use any web browser. ) >..  >l9 >Oracle9i includes online documentation for the followingO >OpenVMS-specific guides:  >c) >Oracle9i Release Notes for Alpha OpenVMSa. >Oracle9i Installation Guide for Alpha OpenVMS5 >Oracle9i Administrator's Reference for Alpha OpenVMSt >g >+++ >n- >Also, reference the following from MetaLink:p >Doc ID: Note:156484.1@ >Subject: VMS: System tuning recommendations for new 8i/9i RDBMS >  >+++- >Also, reference the following from MetaLink:r >Doc ID: Note:156294.1 > F >Hard copy guides are not included in the release kit. Order hard-copy, >documents using the following part numbers: >:E >A90868-01 Oracle9i Server and Tools Administrator's Guide, Release 1f% >          (9.0.1) for Alpha OpenVMS.oB >A90869-01 Oracle9i Installation Guide Release 1 (9.0.1) for Alpha	 >OpenVMS. G >A90870-01 Oracle9i Release Notes, Release 1 (9.0.1) for Alpha OpenVMS. > >A95129-01 Oracle Real Application Cluster Addendum, Release 1% >          (9.0.1) for Alpha OpenVMS.e >++++w >r	 >Regards,  >  >t >Kerry Maina >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036a >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com7 >x >  >-----Original Message-----O' >From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] i >Sent: April 2, 2002 1:30 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >  > E >Again, that is all true. But no matter which of these solutions one sE >takes, the simple matter remains that it is not possible to setup a  I >simple bread-and -butter Oracle application on VMS anymore, the same wayS >lG >as you would do it with Unix. And that is a very, very weak point for PC >VMS. Try to explain this to customers, account managers, software f. >developers etc. Almost impossible I'm afraid. > H >And what is even worse, try to find some kind of manual or white paper I >telling you how to set up Oracle applications on VMS in this situation. iI >There is nothing there, not from Oracle, not from Compaq. Customers haves >uH >to find out for themselves. We do get nice letters from Oracle telling I >us that their products will be supported on VMS, but this problem is not  >a@ >addressed. Doesn't this sound like a marketing problem to you ? >iC >For (upgrade) customers the present situation looks like a doctor  I >telling his patient in a cheerful way "Hey, we will take away your legs,t > C >but have you seen those smart wheelchairs they have these days ?".. >>	 >Regards,c >h >Dirkw >p >  >o >Main, Kerry wrote:h >s >>Dirk,a >>I >>Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps on dH >>OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) to D >>use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced ! >>Oracle OPS back end on OpenVMS.a >>D >>If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fully G >>protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as the oG >>back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail over 1G >>only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers on C2 >>OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database. >>F >>Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have in . >>place and how much availability you require. >>
 >>Regards, >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultante >>Compaq Canada Corp.  >>Professional Servicesi >>Voice: 613-592-4660V >>Fax  :  819-772-7036 >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >> >> >>-----Original Message-----' >>From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]  >>Sent: April 1, 2002 4:41 PMg >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + >>Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansi >> >>F >>That's all very true Kerry, but the absence of a conventional OracleG >>Forms Server is a big problem. (Forms 4.5 is old and will run out of  I >>support one of these days.) This means you need a web interface, or youa >> >rI >>need Windows or Unix front end systems. Not an easy choice, and this is  >> >(G >>a weak point in the Oracle VMS product line. (I know, because we need  >> >ton >tH >>migrate 12 applications from Oracle 7.1.x  & VMS 6.2 > Oracle 8.1.7 orA >>Oracle 9.0.1 & VMS 7.2.2 or VMS 7.3. This is a major problem !!  >>G >>Oracle 9.01 is only certified on VMS 7.2.1, not for 7.2.2 or 7.3 (at u >>the  >>
 >>moment). >>
 >>Regards, >> >>Dirk >> >> >>Main, Kerry wrote: >> >>>Alan, >>>eC >>>Just to add some additional info on why Oracle 9i RAC on OpenVMSmA >>>(available since Oct 2001) is a good candidate for the OpenVMSe >>>t	 >platformf >r >>>- >>>:I >>>The big new feature in Oracle 9i RAC (RAC = Oracle Parallel Server) isMB >>>direct IO to a clustered file system which for the UNIX and NT I >>>platforms is a really big deal as it gets away from all the issues of m  >>>dealing with raw devices etc. >>>aD >>>Course, OpenVMS has had a proven mission critical clustered file 	 >>>systemd >>>nH >>>for many years now - not only for the database files, but also batch,0 >>>print queues, user files, config files etc .. >>>i >>>:-) >>>hI >>>Also, once one starts looking at Oracle 9i RAC (or Oracle 8i OPS) in asH >>>multi-site environment, the benefits of OpenVMS really start to kick B >>>in. We have a number of Customers currently looking at this now >>>l >because >t; >>>of 9/11 concerns and/or large IT consolidation projects.o >>>aC >>>Consolidation 101 states you never consolidate to just one site.  >>>fH >>>Reference: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/ >>>fA >>>Keep in mind that for Oracle 9i RAC (again OPS), you need full G >>>read-write access to all the database files from all servers in all oH >>>sites at the same time. One can not load balance connection requests C >>>across sites with HW or SW replication schemes as they assume a 0F >>>active-passive environment - not an active-active one like OpenVMS 
 >>>offers. >>>sH >>>Ask the competition how they will implement full load balanced Oracle4 >>>9i RAC over a simple 10km multi-site environment. >>>w >>>Regards,8 >>>2
 >>>Kerry Main8 >>>Senior Consultant >>>Compaq Canada Corp. >>>Professional Services >>>Voice: 613-592-4660 >>>Fax  :  819-772-7036i >>>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comn >>>m >>>u >>>-----Original Message-----X/ >>>From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]  >>>Sent: April 1, 2002 10:12 AM  >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >>>Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >>>e >>>eE >>>On 28 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0800, jjohnston@scvl.com (James Johnston)n	 >>>wrote:r >>>o >>>[posted and mailed] >>>lF >>>>We are starting the process of migrating our Open VMS 7.2 Cluster G >>>>environment running ORACLE 8.1.7 to Tru64 UNIX 5.1a and TruCluster   >>>>5.0M >>>>G >>>>running Oracle 9iRAC.  Does anyone have migration plans for this ori< >>>>similar.  If so it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks >>>>C >>>Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want to s
 >>>migrate >>>nG >>>to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away? Last ItI >>>checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish in favourm >>>g > I >>>of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be inclinedy >>>e > C >>>to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq's recent tH >>>behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but start >>>s >a >e >>>migration now?n >>>eF >>>Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustE >>>Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical a >>>missing?p >>>n3 >>>Real Media presentation on the future of VMS at:p >>>tI >>>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/OPENVMS_ON_ITANIUM_As >>>R >>>C >>>HITECTURE.RAM >>>--h >>>Alant >>>u >n   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:05:38 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planse+ Message-ID: <a8cod1$54e$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E05@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes: >David,i > B >>>> The driver for Tru64 was it being an Oracle tier one port andC >Oracle's use of the Tru64 clustering software + applications beingS >available. <<<o >lA >And where did Tru64 cluster sw come from? Hint - a subset of VMS1E >Clustering. Keep in mind that Oracle 9i RAC new feature is basicallynG >direct IO to a clustered file system - something OpenVMS has had for aw2 >long time and from which Oracle OPS began on. :-) >iG >One also has to look at items like clustered batch systems, user files  >etc ..  >c  I True enough but it's been a while since VMS was a tier 1 port for Oracle.m  I (Ironically on our academic alphas where I provide an Oracle database for-L teaching I upgraded to VMS 7.3 expecting that Oracle would put out Oracle 9iK on that first - instead I am stuck using Oracle 8i because Oracle has still7O to certify Oracle 9i for VMS 7.3 although they have certified it for VMS 7.2-1.o )     D >On the applications side, with the growing popularity of Java amongI >ISV's (SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle and list goes on..) and Universities, theeF >platform choice becomes much less of an issue and one is more free toA >choose the OS based on issues like RASS issues and multi-site is ! >becoming a critical requirement.w >e  C In this instance the driving force to unix is Oracle and peoplesoftcM applications. They have either already or are in the process of being droppednO on VMS by Oracle and Peoplesoft. Note: Here I am talking about the applications M not the backend database (though in the case of Sybase which we also ran withvL our library application on VMS the dropping of the database led to a move to Sun).a  N Java is great for the future - however to get reasonably good performance thatJ is probably the longer future. I've yet to here of any near term plans for? Oracle Financials for instance to be totally rewritten in Java.tI Even then you need to convince Oracle, Peoplesoft etc to certify that thec= applications will run on VMS and that they will support them.t  K Compaq sounded the death Knell for these type of systems when they told theh3 vendors that VMS was just for the database backend.o       L We are now committed to TRU64 for our peoplesoft system having purchased theK system. We are probably commited to TRU64 for our Financial system - thoughc< there has been some soul searching over the future of TRU64.         PS.   N Unless things change radically in three or four years time when we do need to I replace these systems I certainly will not be arguing for a move to HPUX.e    e   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      G Disclaimer: The opinions represented above are personal opinions and do 9 not represent the official views of Middlesex University.2   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:43:23 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>l) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansBT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E08@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  E >>> True enough but it's been a while since VMS was a tier 1 port fory
 Oracle.<<<  H True. The Oracle OpenVMS statement is Tier 1 (Tru64 UNIX) + 90 days. AndF if one does not take into account the long 6 week mfging process whichE is common to all platforms, they have made this goal for the last fewt	 releases.u  A >>> Java is great for the future - however to get reasonably goode2 performance that is probably the longer future.<<<  E Well, I agree that there is definitely room for improvement, but eache? new release does get better. Here is recent statement from SAP:0H http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,5099254,00.h tml>  F >>> Compaq sounded the death Knell for these type of systems when they? told the vendors that VMS was just for the database backend.<<<e  G Well, there has been some poor marketing in the past, but that does notyH mean one can not correct errors either e.g. OpenVMS has been doing quiteC a bit lately with BEA (middleware application leader), IONA, Lutris0 Application Servers.=20l  H Course, many Customers are only now starting to ask themselves "how do I@ make my App Servers more available from a multi-site perspectiveB (keeping in mind that an overall solution is only as strong as theH weakest link. Big (read huge) holes in most current multi-tier solutions I have seen.  > Question - how are your current Oracle Financial or PeopleSoftD Application Servers protected from a business continuity (datacenterG went up in flames last night, but everything else is fine) perspective?   D >>> Even then you need to convince Oracle, Peoplesoft etc to certify@ that the applications will run on VMS and that they will support them.<<<  F Huge, huge difference in effort is required to cert a Java applicationF on a platform vs. port the native code to that other platform. Typical/ example is week(s) vs many months of effort.=20   H Again, I'm not saying mistakes have not been made. However, there is allC sorts of change happening in the industry (Java based applications,tD multi-site cluster requirements exponential increases, huge focus onF security and ultra-high availability, very few Cust's have any fundingE for big bang, redo everything migrations) so one does need to keep aniH eye on all of these happenings if one is to make an intelligent decision for the future.a   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----C From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk]=20t Sent: April 2, 2002 12:06 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr) Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planst    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E05@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>/ , "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:b >David,d >oB >>>> The driver for Tru64 was it being an Oracle tier one port andF >Oracle's use of the Tru64 clustering software + applications being=20 >available. <<<l >aD >And where did Tru64 cluster sw come from? Hint - a subset of VMS=20H >Clustering. Keep in mind that Oracle 9i RAC new feature is basically=20J >direct IO to a clustered file system - something OpenVMS has had for a=202 >long time and from which Oracle OPS began on. :-) >)J >One also has to look at items like clustered batch systems, user files=20 >etc ..u >i  A True enough but it's been a while since VMS was a tier 1 port fore Oracle.i  E (Ironically on our academic alphas where I provide an Oracle databaseeF for teaching I upgraded to VMS 7.3 expecting that Oracle would put outD Oracle 9i on that first - instead I am stuck using Oracle 8i becauseD Oracle has still to certify Oracle 9i for VMS 7.3 although they have certified it for VMS 7.2-1.  )=20    G >On the applications side, with the growing popularity of Java among=20rH >ISV's (SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle and list goes on..) and Universities,=20J >the platform choice becomes much less of an issue and one is more free=20G >to choose the OS based on issues like RASS issues and multi-site is=20.! >becoming a critical requirement.  >l  C In this instance the driving force to unix is Oracle and peoplesoftwE applications. They have either already or are in the process of beingdF dropped on VMS by Oracle and Peoplesoft. Note: Here I am talking aboutG the applications not the backend database (though in the case of Sybase E which we also ran with our library application on VMS the dropping of # the database led to a move to Sun).t  = Java is great for the future - however to get reasonably goodeG performance that is probably the longer future. I've yet to here of anye@ near term plans for Oracle Financials for instance to be totallyH rewritten in Java. Even then you need to convince Oracle, Peoplesoft etcC to certify that the applications will run on VMS and that they willo
 support them.   G Compaq sounded the death Knell for these type of systems when they tolda7 the vendors that VMS was just for the database backend.c      =20H We are now committed to TRU64 for our peoplesoft system having purchasedH the system. We are probably commited to TRU64 for our Financial system -C though there has been some soul searching over the future of TRU64.a         PS.a  E Unless things change radically in three or four years time when we dot
 need to=20C replace these systems I certainly will not be arguing for a move too HPUX.    =20a =20a
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      G Disclaimer: The opinions represented above are personal opinions and dof9 not represent the official views of Middlesex University.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:17:49 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu & Message-ID: <3CA9D9AD.1070104@sun.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote:  N > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/enterprise_tco/enterprise_	 > tco.pdfeG > Detailed comparison of the Total Cost of Ownership of four RISC-BasedaL > Cluster Solutions Designed to Provide High Availability.  The four systems> > are Compaq OpenVMS , HP9000, IBM RS/6000 and Sun Enterprise. > J > Please note that this was not done by Compaq, but by Tech Wise Research. >  > Warm Regards,v >  > Suee >  >  >      How very dissapointing.E  ; This is just a rehash of the origional OpenVMS TCO analysis-A which was trashed last time comprehensively and sadly it uses the1" same technique to prove its point.   Technique 1.    F Over inflate the relative size of the one system while underinflating G the size of the competition. Overinflation and underinflation depending F on who commisions the TCO analysis. This tactic is the same as the oneC MS and Digital indulged in when trying to prove the "wondefull" TCOAC of NT on Alpha. Never mind that no apps ran on the platform look ato the TCO.  
 Exhibit A.  C A GS320 is not equivalent to a Sun F15000, HP SuperDome or IBM P690AH it just does not compare, CPU capacity, I/O bandwidth, memory, benchmarkG results. For example a  Sun F6800 has better apps performance than the  H GS320 as does an IBM P680. By virtually any measure you chose to use the? GS320 is a mid range system by anyone elses standards (with theaH exception of SPECint and SPECfp) which no one uses to measure commercial
 performance).   < Since HW cost and SW licensing costs are a key part of a TCO; analysis its very important to compare like with like. Comes; back with new numbers when you have moved the GS320 down to,> the mid range. You could also include the Sun V880 rather thanA the F3800, it is less flexible and has fewer RAS capabilites thanwF the F3800 but given the company you have placed it in (GS80, P660 etc)G the V880 is more than capable (but hang on its very cheap) Its half they@ price of the GS, HP and IBM boxes and it qualifies for workgroup SW licences.     Technique 2.  ? Introduce a "key" measure based on an undisclosed set of sample> data.o  
 Exhibit B.  = Where did the downtime numbers for each vendor come from pray : tell. I know for a fact that IBM, HP and Sun don't publish> the numbers. Assuming the TechWise survey actually used CompaqG supplied data where did the rest come from. What survey was this based r! on, what was the sample size etc.n   Technique 3t  5 Divide the results of technique 1 with the results ofa6 technique 2 to produce conclusive evidence of whatever9 you like. Multiply them together if you like, square themr) and divide by 5, the answer is always 42.f  6 I would not hesitate to recommend this paper are light5 reading material to any of the customers I deal with.-   Indedentally the URL isr  U http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/enterprise_tco/enterprise_tco.html S       Regardsj Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:07:03 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>Y Subject: Re: White paper now available - Total Cost of Ownership for Enter prise Class Cl>& Message-ID: <3CA9D727.5040009@sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  q > In article <d%qo8.110066$Gf.10454551@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > < >>"Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageN >>news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C1BA@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. >>.. >>M >>>Now if someone could just get this type of message to the folks outside ofo >>>this group. >>>,N >>Just to reinforce the evidence of the severity of the problem (not that many >>here likely doubt it): >>N >>http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid5_gci538346,	 >>00.html  >>F >>"Storage execs rate Unix, OS/390 as most reliable operating systems" >>J >>NT came in a distant third, by the way.  Guess what wasn't there at all. >> >> > ? > 	Not to be patroizing but you are usually real good with youraC > 	references.  This one spends too much time talking about OS/400.,/ > 	Smells like an IBM sponsored ad^H^H article.r > * > 	Sponsorship?  You don't say!  Why sure! >     7 Who do you think payed for the Techwise TCO "Study" ???e   Regardsi Andrew Harrison     ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/27030210.htmt >  > Intel funded anti-AMD paper  > , > AMD calls for meeting with Aberdeen Group ( > By Mike Magee, 27/03/2002 12:06:47 BST > P > A REPORT THAT THE Aberdeen Group published about AMD's performance rating (PR)O > scheme was compiled without the analyst ever consulting the chip firm, it hasi
 > emerged. > 	 > 				Rob  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:26:54 +0100pT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...a& Message-ID: <3CA9DBCE.9080603@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:.  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > I >>Sorry nice try but no cigar. In a number of cases OpenVMS was vunerablevI >>to IP stack exploits, Compaq had posted response to CERT for both Tru64 9 >>and OpenVMS, OpenVMS was listed as not being vunerable.o >>B >>Except that Compaqs own patch reports then listed a patch to fixH >>the same vunerability. In otherwords the CERT response did not reflect  >>OpenVMS's actual vunerability. >>A >>Security through obscurity which you are apparently arguing forr= >>is one thing but this is not what has happened in the past.  >> > G > Andrew, I tried to explain this to you once before.  I must have used E > words that were too big since you've completely failed to grasp thePI > concept.  I'll try once more, and I'll go slowly so follow along now...e > I > OpenVMS is not now, nor has it ever been, vulnerable to any sort or anynJ > type of IP exploit.  Why?  Because OpenVMS will completely ignore any IP4 > packet it sees unless you add an IP product to it. > ? > There are multiple choices available when one wants to add IPlI > functionality to VMS and you seem to be working very hard at convincingnJ > folks that one of those choices and VMS are the same thing.  'Tisn't so,	 > though.a > J > 1).  TCPIP services for OpenVMS, the product that is a port of the Tru64G > unix IP stack, is one of the choices for VMS.  However, and I realizevJ > this will come as a shock to you, while Unix and VMS perform many of theD > same functions, the implementation of those functions is differentC > between the two systems.  One major difference is the handling ofTB > dynamic allocation of kernel-based data structures.  Why is thisJ > significant?  Because I can take two Alpha systems that are identical inJ > hardware, load Tru64 on one and VMS with TCPIP services on the other andI > hit them with several DoS attacks designed to cause resource starvation>F > of the host.  Result:  The unix box crashes, the VMS box keeps goingB > (although sometimes its performance degrades until the attack isJ > blocked).  This is with that exact piece of code that you keep trying toH > claim must make VMS exploitable because it made Tru64 exploitable.  It > doesn't.  I can prove it.a >     B Sorry matey try again, OpenVMS with the VMS IP stack was vunerable8 to just the attacks you claim it was not. LAND, Teardrop etc all knocked OpenVMS out.  @ You may have patched OpenVMS to remove the vunerability and they= are fixed in the latest version of the IP stack but this doesn? not alter the fact that they were vunerable and I don't need too> run a test to prove it because it says so in Compaqs own patch reports.    D > 2). Multinet.  My product of choice.  I've already told you that II > configured a VMS system with multinet and ran IP attacks against it and)H > the system survived every one.  You chose not to believe me.  You evenH > went so far as to claim I must not have known what I was doing or beenI > fully aware of the network configuration when I ran the test.  Well, noeH > one is denying your right to disbelieve me.  However, if you'd like toH > visit sunny San Diego, I'll be happy to demonstrate why your disbelief > is misplaced.a >     C Nice try but not the point. Who gives a rats arse if Multinet isn't D vunerable. Now days no customer expects to have to buy an additionalA layered 3rd party product to get IP support in an OS and very fewtC customers would be impressed with the idea that you need to do thiss* because the vendors own product is broken.     Regardsd   Andrew HarrisonS   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.182 ************************