1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 03 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 184       Contents: Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/2002 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel2 Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe Re: Blade architectures  British Summer Time   Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks$ Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks$ RE: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks$ Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks$ RE: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks$ Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks; Re: Could increasing kernel stack size improve performance?  DFWCUG April Meeting: 4/23/02  Disk Monitoring  RE: Disk Monitoring / Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C) / Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C) / Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C) / Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C)  Re: File IO query.( Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...)8 Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)8 Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)8 Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)8 Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)8 Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...) H7082 power supply Re: H7082 power supplyF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux IA64 is not the VAX 0 Info-VAX , Your first targeted e-mailing is FREED Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D RE: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D RE: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)D Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest) Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Memory Channel vs. CI  Re: Memory Channel vs. CI  Re: Memory Channel vs. CI @ New OpenVMS Training for System Managers: Awareness Announcement. Re: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes running. Re: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes running* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...P Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest         for OpenP Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest         for OpenP Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest         for OpenP OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest for         OpenVMS P Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest for         OpenP Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest for         Open= Re: Possible (mis)behavior of sys$manager:utc_time_setup.com? ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it  RAM for MicroVAX 3300 : Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!- Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON - Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON - Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON - Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON - Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64  UCX Routing Table grows  Re: UCX Routing Table grows 1 VMS boottime - how to calculate # of days running # Re: vms hobbyist licenseing problem   Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansP Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise  Class ClP Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class CluP Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...5 Your Health is Everything! Don't lose it! 59291914119 , [Q] How to set up flag pages on HP printers?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:08:02 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 4/200 ) Message-ID: <3CAAC672.1501D0F9@127.0.0.1>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  Thank you for the comments.   G I've a feeling to disable the CD-ROM you also need to detach the cables A from the back of the drive, but I may not be right on that point.   F > > I've not helped here I know, I've probably added more to consider.H > > Discovered by a colleagues numerous frustrated attempts to get a TLZ+ > > working in the lower part of the shelf.  > H > Did the actual SCSI controllers in that box even support a DAT drive ?  A Yes, We had a TLZ09 and a TLZ07 in the shelf, and we disabled the 8 CD-ROM. Worked fine. Performance not considered however.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:35:03 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel ) Message-ID: <3CAACCC7.4F5DCCDF@127.0.0.1>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > N > Just so folks know Warren ran a report on Monday and we have 150 submissions6 > from around the world.  Not bad for a couple of days  D Forget that contest, why not a "Guess who's boot it is" competition?  > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/images/large_boot.jpg   My submission is John Atoz.  :-)  --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 02:19:16 -0800 ) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204030219.1e53f852@posting.google.com>   m "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<Lnoq8.1775$fL6.36209@news.cpqcorp.net>... N > Just so folks know Warren ran a report on Monday and we have 150 submissions6 > from around the world.  Not bad for a couple of days >   I Many thanks - this looks interesting! I have one gripe BTW, and it is one # I have with *many* US web sites....   9 State: <drop down menu with US/Canada states listed only> K Country <drop down menu with US/Canada as well as _other_ countries listed>    State *not* being optional.   H Well, I guess I live in Sydney which is located in California which is aG state of Australia. Who am I to argue - people who design web templates 
 know best :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:03:10 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel 1 Message-ID: <3CAAE16E.3C9D42B5@BlueBubble.UK.Com>    Patrick Young wrote:  K > Many thanks - this looks interesting! I have one gripe BTW, and it is one % > I have with *many* US web sites....  > ; > State: <drop down menu with US/Canada states listed only> M > Country <drop down menu with US/Canada as well as _other_ countries listed>  >  > State *not* being optional.  > J > Well, I guess I live in Sydney which is located in California which is aI > state of Australia. Who am I to argue - people who design web templates  > know best :-)    One of my pet peeves too.   G However, you can choose the state to be "-----" i.e. one of the divider J lines :-)  That's what I did, and I'm sure my guesstimate is going to win.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 06:04:38 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel 3 Message-ID: <U4JGrWg4h$Sc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <3CAAE16E.3C9D42B5@BlueBubble.UK.Com>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:  > Patrick Young wrote: > L >> Many thanks - this looks interesting! I have one gripe BTW, and it is one& >> I have with *many* US web sites.... >>< >> State: <drop down menu with US/Canada states listed only>N >> Country <drop down menu with US/Canada as well as _other_ countries listed> >> >> State *not* being optional. >>K >> Well, I guess I live in Sydney which is located in California which is a J >> state of Australia. Who am I to argue - people who design web templates >> know best :-) >  > One of my pet peeves too.   A From the US, my pet web-form-state peeve is the requirement to go F down a long popup list of states to choose the two-letter abbreviation for the state in which I live.  B I am actually so intellectually advanced that I can _remember_ theD two letter abbreviation fo the state where I have lived for the past 40 years :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 06:01:58 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel 3 Message-ID: <WCNoAGXoV5Nw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <%Mwq8.12194$ml2.968128@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org> writes:@ >> "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message0 >> news:oSIo8.1639$fL6.31660@news.cpqcorp.net... >>> Dear Newsgroup,  >>> I >>> We now have a booting contest up on the web.  Give it your best shot. - >>> http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/  > C > How about encouraging 3rd party VMS vendors to continue the theme E > by having their own contests all of which can be easiy located from  > the VMSboot contest page?   A Likely some third parties are more equal when it comes to getting  early copies of Itanium VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:54:08 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger); Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel K Message-ID: <rdeininger-0304020754090001@1cust113.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   I In article <WCNoAGXoV5Nw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  F >In article <%Mwq8.12194$ml2.968128@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,* "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org> writes:A >>> "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message 1 >>> news:oSIo8.1639$fL6.31660@news.cpqcorp.net...  >>>> Dear Newsgroup, >>>>J >>>> We now have a booting contest up on the web.  Give it your best shot.. >>>> http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ >>  D >> How about encouraging 3rd party VMS vendors to continue the themeF >> by having their own contests all of which can be easiy located from >> the VMSboot contest page? > B >Likely some third parties are more equal when it comes to getting >early copies of Itanium VMS.   G That wouldn't stop them from having contests, however. In fact, it only 6 adds to the challenge of guessing the right date.  :-)  E If a vendor writes software in Ada, only a compile and link should be F necessary.  So I'd guess that such a vendor would ship product one day1 after receipt of GNAT for Itanium on VMS.  Right?    :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:29:22 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel ' Message-ID: <3CAB11C2.4090900@mmaz.com>    Nic Clews wrote:   >Sue Skonetski wrote:  > N >>Just so folks know Warren ran a report on Monday and we have 150 submissions6 >>from around the world.  Not bad for a couple of days >> > E >Forget that contest, why not a "Guess who's boot it is" competition?  > ? >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/images/large_boot.jpg  >  >My submission is John Atoz. >:-) > : Or rather, whose butt this boot should be applied too? :-)   Barry    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 07:04:22 -0800 ) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) ; Subject: Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel < Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204030704.445b48f@posting.google.com>  f Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message news:<3CAAE16E.3C9D42B5@BlueBubble.UK.Com>... > I > However, you can choose the state to be "-----" i.e. one of the divider  > lines :-)   7 I thought about that later and should have selected it.   > I would not mind if the states query was optional and included@ Australian states - how many countries have "states" anyway?. WeB have the "heavily taxed and corr..." variety (ie: New South Wales) for example :^0   A > That's what I did, and I'm sure my guesstimate is going to win.   = No, that only means they may be able to send the prize to the ) correct (non-US) address *if* you win :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:22:21 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe & Message-ID: <3CAB101D.5040405@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  1 > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:46:39 -0500, Brian Haley ! > <Brian.Haley@compaq.com> wrote:  >  >  >>jlsue wrote: >> >> >>>>Hum. >>>>L >>>>There are 13 Alphaserver systems in the top500 list, none of the configsH >>>>I have looked at that are listed use TruCluster. They do however run
 >>>>Tru64. >>>> >>>>4 >>>Just out of curiosity, which top500 list is this? >>> 1 >>www.top500.org - the TOP500 Supercomputer Sites  >> >> > C > Ah, okay.  Now I see.  This is a top500 based on the running of a  > benchmark (LINPACK). >        > > I take it that this is a more favorable benchmark than SPEC? >     = Well in this case yes its what they chose to use as a measure < BTW what did you think you were refering to when you refered to SPEC, int, fp, jbb, web.       Regards    Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:17:46 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures& Message-ID: <3CAB0F0A.1060204@sun.com>   Martin Heller wrote:  B > Shall I take a closer look at what's inside a Sun Cobalt RaQ XTR > Server ?? ;-)  >      If you like !!   Regards  Andrew Harrison      > M. Heller  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> >> >> Alexis Cousein wrote: >>, >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>  >>>>I >>>> Temperature is a big issue which is why most of the blades announced L >>>> are using relatively slow CPU's. Packaging is also an issue, bare boardI >>>> systems which some vendors are proposing are less safe to replace as # >>>> a FRU than canisterised units.2 >>>>C >>> And none announce at what *effective* speed they will run when e >>> everything'sF >>> packed and operating. A SpeedStep capable PIII mobile at 700MHz is1 >>> really only one running at *up to* 700MHz ;).M >>>I >> >>9 >> Lets hope the Intel blades arn't using a certain largen; >> disk manufacturers Drives. If the report in The Registero9 >> was true you would be combining a processor that mights: >> run at 700 Mhz but would prefer to run at somewhat less: >> than that with a disk that might run for 24 hours a day! >> but would prefer to run for 8.t >>7 >> Mind you you could have 2/3rds of your blade serverse7 >> turned off at any one time to ensure that the drivesq5 >> dont wear out and the CPU's run at a decent speed.e >>7 >> Now what was the point of a blade server, I forget ?n >> :):)o >> >>
 >> Regards >> >> Andrew Harrison >> >> >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:51:47 +01004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: British Summer TimeB Message-ID: <1017823930.25390.0.nnrp-12.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  9 OpenVMS Alpha 7.3, TCPIP (ucx) 5.1 eco 3, iupop3, mx 5.0.rD I dialled in to set Summer Time on Monday night (I thought it did it# automatically, but apparently not).   K Now everything (VMS, PCs) shows the right time, but email's arriving on PCsr" timestamped an hour in the future.  8 Here's all the logicals I can see ($ sh log *tim*,*tz*).) Anyone know what I've done wrong please ?i   Thanks,8
 Chris Sharman       "IUPOP3_CLIENT_TIMEOUT" = "10"6   "PWRK$PCFS_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:35.63"5   "PWRK$PCI_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:35.63"j;   "PWRK$STREAMSOS_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:36.50" +   "SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME" = "ffff2726a756d909"i?   "SYS$LOCALTIME" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]GB-EIRE."v&   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING" = "0"#   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "0"i   "SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME" = "GMT"g8   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.4.0/02"1   "SYS$TZDIR" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.USER]"h-         = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]"g   "TCPIP$BIND_TIMEOUT" = "...."    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:40:05 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranksb. Message-ID: <JCDq8.163743$af7.80630@rwcrnsc53>  K I thought that Compaq purged its ranks of the completely clueless, but suchnK apparently is not the case. A friend of mine who resells Compaq's family ofgK fine enterprise systems and storage recently had an encounter with a Compaq F employee who bears the title "Operations Manager." If this "OperationsK Manager" was a surgeon she'd be defrocked for malpractice. Seems she told avL manager for a leading distributor that she would not authorize a competitiveF allowance on a deal because "It is not Compaq's intention for Alpha to compete against an Intel box."  L Something tells me the "Operations Manager" in question is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.e   -- Terry C. Shannon. Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.  terryshannon@attbi.com http://www.openvms.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:24:18 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p- Subject: Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranksg, Message-ID: <3CAB1EA1.759F78C5@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: H > allowance on a deal because "It is not Compaq's intention for Alpha to  > compete against an Intel box." > N > Something tells me the "Operations Manager" in question is not the brightest > bulb in the chandelier.e  I Why do you accuse her of that ? What if she is merely following corporateu8 policy ? What if that is what she was told by her boss ?  K When you look at the Alpha "advertising" since June 25, it has been focusedrB only on the super computing and specialised applications (jstars).  K Remember that Compaq has some "deals" to help ease the transition from fast1M Alphas to slow IA64s. The fewer Alphas there are to convert, the better it isnH for Compaq. This is quite a reasonable policy. Alpha is dead, it is onlyM reasonable that Compaq will only want to sell it to those who absolutely need   it or those who already have it.  J If you look carefully, in the last year, I believe that Compaq has assuredK customers that Compaq would continue to support them. I do not believe that65 Compaq has made any commitments to push Alpha or VMS.r  D And this is perhaps VMS's fate: continued support, but no new sales.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:51:34 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> - Subject: RE: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CED00@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  ; >>> What if she is merely following corporate policy ? <<<<c  C Somehow I doubt that or our local office is guilty of not following G corporate policy ..allowances are typically based on the requirement tou win a deal - period.=20M   :-)u   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl Compaq Canada Corp.w Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20C Sent: April 3, 2002 10:24 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh- Subject: Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks      "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eH > allowance on a deal because "It is not Compaq's intention for Alpha to    > compete against an Intel box." >=20G > Something tells me the "Operations Manager" in question is not the=20b# > brightest bulb in the chandelier.a  ? Why do you accuse her of that ? What if she is merely following B corporate policy ? What if that is what she was told by her boss ?  C When you look at the Alpha "advertising" since June 25, it has beene@ focused only on the super computing and specialised applications	 (jstars).t  F Remember that Compaq has some "deals" to help ease the transition fromE fast Alphas to slow IA64s. The fewer Alphas there are to convert, theaD better it is for Compaq. This is quite a reasonable policy. Alpha isD dead, it is only reasonable that Compaq will only want to sell it to: those who absolutely need it or those who already have it.  B If you look carefully, in the last year, I believe that Compaq hasF assured customers that Compaq would continue to support them. I do notB believe that Compaq has made any commitments to push Alpha or VMS.  D And this is perhaps VMS's fate: continued support, but no new sales.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:31:29 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Rankse< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204031031.7221ce8@posting.google.com>  j "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<JCDq8.163743$af7.80630@rwcrnsc53>...M > I thought that Compaq purged its ranks of the completely clueless, but such.M > apparently is not the case. A friend of mine who resells Compaq's family of M > fine enterprise systems and storage recently had an encounter with a CompaqwH > employee who bears the title "Operations Manager." If this "OperationsM > Manager" was a surgeon she'd be defrocked for malpractice. Seems she told asN > manager for a leading distributor that she would not authorize a competitiveH > allowance on a deal because "It is not Compaq's intention for Alpha to  > compete against an Intel box." > N > Something tells me the "Operations Manager" in question is not the brightest > bulb in the chandelier.E  G no wonder compaq is going broke, still fools believing that windoze andoD intel are the future ... please will someone w/some common business & sense and no ties to pc crowd buy vms!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:29:01 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> - Subject: RE: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEPCEKAA.tom@kednos.com>   , Dell is supposedly interested in servers :-)   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]w* > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComU/ > Subject: Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Ranks  >  > B > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message , > news:<JCDq8.163743$af7.80630@rwcrnsc53>...= > > I thought that Compaq purged its ranks of the completely b > clueless, but such= > > apparently is not the case. A friend of mine who resells   > Compaq's family ofB > > fine enterprise systems and storage recently had an encounter  > with a Compaq J > > employee who bears the title "Operations Manager." If this "Operations? > > Manager" was a surgeon she'd be defrocked for malpractice.   > Seems she told aC > > manager for a leading distributor that she would not authorize   > a competitivelJ > > allowance on a deal because "It is not Compaq's intention for Alpha to" > > compete against an Intel box." > > C > > Something tells me the "Operations Manager" in question is not C > the brightests > > bulb in the chandelier.  > I > no wonder compaq is going broke, still fools believing that windoze and F > intel are the future ... please will someone w/some common business ( > sense and no ties to pc crowd buy vms! >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:24:57 -0500, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>- Subject: Re: Cluelessness in the Compaq Rankse, Message-ID: <a8fhac023qi@enews4.newsguy.com>  J Can you be sure this is cluelessness on the part of one individual and not Compaq corporate policy?  J If the OS being put on that Alpha is OpenVMS, then it could be argued thatL there is no competitive equivalent in the Intel world.  Not that it would beL a good marketing plan, but at least it's a bit understandable.  On the otherL hand if it was an Alpha destined for a Unix environment (of any flavor) then  maybe she needs to be corrected.  K Then there's the possibility that since Alpha is essentially an end-of-lifeaF product maybe Compaq figures anyone that still wants one while they'reJ available should pay full price.  This would help decrease demand and make7 it easier to justify terminating the product line.  :-)s  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagen( news:JCDq8.163743$af7.80630@rwcrnsc53...H > I thought that Compaq purged its ranks of the completely clueless, but suchJ > apparently is not the case. A friend of mine who resells Compaq's family ofF > fine enterprise systems and storage recently had an encounter with a CompaqH > employee who bears the title "Operations Manager." If this "OperationsK > Manager" was a surgeon she'd be defrocked for malpractice. Seems she toldV aoB > manager for a leading distributor that she would not authorize a competitiveqH > allowance on a deal because "It is not Compaq's intention for Alpha to  > compete against an Intel box." >tD > Something tells me the "Operations Manager" in question is not the	 brightestn > bulb in the chandelier.r >w > -- > Terry C. Shannon0 > Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq' > Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc./ > terryshannon@attbi.com > http://www.openvms.org >a >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:08:24 -0500h1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>sD Subject: Re: Could increasing kernel stack size improve performance?2 Message-ID: <3CAB0CD8.9F06D02C@clarityconnect.com>  H I would not expect any performance improvement.  Typically drivers don'tH worry about the stack size, they just crash when they run out of it :*( G AMDS is a bit different this way.  If you have a large memory system ittA won't hurt to try it but I would be surprised if you were able ton measure any difference.e  	 JG wrote:  > B > Recently I logged a call to software support about an INVEXCEPTNF > bugcheck in IO_ROUTINES on a system running DEC AMDS.  Anyway, in anE > email response I saw an internal article that talked about problems>H > that occur on systems when the free space on the kernel stack got low,7 > usually due to a large number of active network I/Os.v > H > The interesting thing was the article said that the workaround to thisG > (already implemented) was to stall I/Os when the the kernel stack got D > low.  My bugcheck was apparently because this workaround made some? > assumptions that were not true in the case of the RM: driver.  > B > My real question is if this is true then would I see performanceD > improvements on systems running a webserver just by increasing theG > size of the kernel stack?  We have AlphaServer 1000s that seem to hitsH > a bottleneck serving cached graphics when there is plenty of free CPU.   -- aD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 12:43:28 -0600eC From: bruns@spam.encompasserve.org (Alan Bruns, Allied Electronics)S& Subject: DFWCUG April Meeting: 4/23/023 Message-ID: <Kc$AdeZsBR$l@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  D The Dallas/Ft Worth Compaq Users Group (DFWCUG) announces its April ? meeting.  It'll be the 4th Tuesday of April - the 23rd - at theeC usual spot: Lincoln Center III, 9th floor, at the southeast corner b> of LBJ freeway (I635) and the Dallas North Tollway, at 6:00PM.  B This month, Steve Smiley and John Wisniewski will be demonstratingA JABcast Instant Messenger Service, which will be available on the.> DFWCUG web page at http://www.dfwcug.org.  This is an instant = messaging product that works on VMS, which interoperates with72 AOL Instant Messaging and other instant messagers.  C John says the meeting will be conducted "On the Internet, live froml Lincoln Center."  4 Other topics to be discussed at the meeting include:  < 	o Ideas for DFWCUG's 20th anniversary celebration in August0 	o A trip to DEFCON10 planned by several members* 	o Soliciting DFWCUG Speakers for CETS20027 	o A road trip planned for the Texas-wide HP User Groupy 	  meeting in Houstonv   Hope to see you there!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:30:58 -0700m  From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> Subject: Disk Monitoring8 Message-ID: <pkemau865sahie27e9jfdbm50a5ugolo9b@4ax.com>   Hi all,s  E  I was asked to create a disk i/o monitoring and I was REALLY wanting D to avoid doing a monitor disk to an output file and read it in.  AreD there lexicals that can return disk io? I'm specifically looking for queue length.  Thanks!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:58:36 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>o Subject: RE: Disk MonitoringT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E16@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Jon,  : As a suggestion, you might be interested in the following:   Performance API's for OpenVMS:C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html    Performance profiling tool-P> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/dcpi/index.html   Regardsp  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----* From: Jon [mailto:jsmyth69@hotmail.com]=20 Sent: April 3, 2002 12:31 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, Subject: Disk Monitoring     Hi all,o  H  I was asked to create a disk i/o monitoring and I was REALLY wanting toG avoid doing a monitor disk to an output file and read it in.  Are thereuD lexicals that can return disk io? I'm specifically looking for queue length.  Thanks!   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 05:53:14 -0600R- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)!8 Subject: Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C)3 Message-ID: <7jc660X2$hld@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  _ In article <873e96d6.0204021732.52e9b12a@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes:uI >> >I have written a testing program to write 10000 records in a file. ItgJ >> >takes less than 4s. However, if I run 48 copies of the testing programJ >> >at the same time (by submit it to a job queue), it takes >47s to write >> >10000 records. >> > >> >How to avoid this? >> tE >> Don't do it? Seriously we need more info. unless this is just somek >> bizarre April 1st troll.  >> lG >> However disk striping and write-back cache immediately jump to mind.  >>  C > How to avoid disk striping and write-back?, says on the open fileg > option or in OS level. > H > I am writing a server in openvms.  In which, around 70 servers will beE > run at the same time and each needs to write its own log for audit.wG > And, I suspect that the bottleneck may be on the file system, thus, Ib > do this testing.  @ The bottleneck may very well be the disk system, or to put it in? different terms, the bottleneck may be your application design.>  H > I am also try fstream, it taks 20s(much beeter) to write 10000 recordsC > for each of 48 testing programs.  However, the file is locked and F > could not be read.  Is there any way to open a file with fstream for
 > share read?r  C That is C terminology, which makes me suspect you may be accustomeduB to some other operating system.  There is a significant difference@ between VMS and certain other operating systems in that VMS saysB data has been written only when it is really on the disk hardware.B Differences like that can make a significant difference in timing.? Try doing the math, based on your "record" size (I didn't thinkrA C had support for record-based files in its native file support).e9 How long does it take to write that many times to a disk?t  D > Moreover, I am thinking of using global session to pass the log toH > another server to do the logging.  Please suggest some hints to start.  : I don't know what "global session" is, but having a single< process do the log writing sounds like a good idea.  To send; the data from the 70 worker processes to the logger process 6 I would recommend the ICC services provided by current versions of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:00:30 +0200G9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>08 Subject: Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C)' Message-ID: <3CAAEEDE.93FCBBE9@aaa.com>]  D Will *each* process realy write *10000* log entries each 4 seconds ?B What is the *real* expected interval between two writes to the log file from each server process ?:  A I'll bet that it doasn't matter if you write 10000 log entries in3 1 sec, 1 min or 1 hour...h   Jan-Erik Sderholm  a > In article <873e96d6.0204021732.52e9b12a@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes:CK > >> >I have written a testing program to write 10000 records in a file. ItnL > >> >takes less than 4s. However, if I run 48 copies of the testing programL > >> >at the same time (by submit it to a job queue), it takes >47s to write > >> >10000 records. > >> > > >> >How to avoid this? > >>   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 06:23:59 -0800C From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)o8 Subject: Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C)= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0204030623.5ffd2aa2@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<7jc660X2$hld@eisner.encompasserve.org>...a > In article <873e96d6.0204021732.52e9b12a@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes: K > >> >I have written a testing program to write 10000 records in a file. IteL > >> >takes less than 4s. However, if I run 48 copies of the testing programL > >> >at the same time (by submit it to a job queue), it takes >47s to write > >> >10000 records. > >> > > >> >How to avoid this? > >>  G > >> Don't do it? Seriously we need more info. unless this is just some  > >> bizarre April 1st troll.t > >> bI > >> However disk striping and write-back cache immediately jump to mind.l > >> wE > > How to avoid disk striping and write-back?, says on the open file? > > option or in OS level. > > J > > I am writing a server in openvms.  In which, around 70 servers will beG > > run at the same time and each needs to write its own log for audit.dI > > And, I suspect that the bottleneck may be on the file system, thus, Ie > > do this testing. > B > The bottleneck may very well be the disk system, or to put it inA > different terms, the bottleneck may be your application design.  > J > > I am also try fstream, it taks 20s(much beeter) to write 10000 recordsE > > for each of 48 testing programs.  However, the file is locked anddH > > could not be read.  Is there any way to open a file with fstream for > > share read?m > E > That is C terminology, which makes me suspect you may be accustomedeD > to some other operating system.  There is a significant differenceB > between VMS and certain other operating systems in that VMS saysD > data has been written only when it is really on the disk hardware.D > Differences like that can make a significant difference in timing.A > Try doing the math, based on your "record" size (I didn't thinkiC > C had support for record-based files in its native file support).o; > How long does it take to write that many times to a disk?e > G For each process (copy), it takes about 20s.  And yes, I am new to VMS.r  F > > Moreover, I am thinking of using global session to pass the log toJ > > another server to do the logging.  Please suggest some hints to start. > < > I don't know what "global session" is, but having a single> > process do the log writing sounds like a good idea.  To send= > the data from the 70 worker processes to the logger process 8 > I would recommend the ICC services provided by current > versions of VMS.  ( Would you please provdie you an example?   Thanks in advance,   Wing   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 09:29:54 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y8 Subject: Re: File IO query (Parallel write speed from C)3 Message-ID: <mQDORASdr0Fb@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  _ In article <873e96d6.0204030623.5ffd2aa2@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes:oj > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<7jc660X2$hld@eisner.encompasserve.org>...b >> In article <873e96d6.0204021732.52e9b12a@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes:  K >> > I am also try fstream, it taks 20s(much beeter) to write 10000 recordstF >> > for each of 48 testing programs.  However, the file is locked andI >> > could not be read.  Is there any way to open a file with fstream fori >> > share read? >> eF >> That is C terminology, which makes me suspect you may be accustomedE >> to some other operating system.  There is a significant differencehC >> between VMS and certain other operating systems in that VMS saysbE >> data has been written only when it is really on the disk hardware.1E >> Differences like that can make a significant difference in timing.CB >> Try doing the math, based on your "record" size (I didn't thinkD >> C had support for record-based files in its native file support).< >> How long does it take to write that many times to a disk? >>  I > For each process (copy), it takes about 20s.  And yes, I am new to VMS.c  ? VMS certainly supports shared writing to files, although my owna; approach would be to use RMS or QIO calls rather than the Cy? runtime library.  But I have serious reservations as to whether"< a significant performance improvement would result, compared to the central logger approach.a  G >> > Moreover, I am thinking of using global session to pass the log todK >> > another server to do the logging.  Please suggest some hints to start.' >> e= >> I don't know what "global session" is, but having a singlee? >> process do the log writing sounds like a good idea.  To sendi> >> the data from the 70 worker processes to the logger process9 >> I would recommend the ICC services provided by currenth >> versions of VMS.i > * > Would you please provdie you an example?  < I don't have any programs that use this, but if you have any> specific questions, I am sure people would be happy to answer.< In phrasing your questions, please specify which sections of: the ICC documentation you are looking at.  If you are only< looking at the ICC System Service documentation, please also< see the Programming Concepts documentation before asking any= questions.  That is on the documentation CDROM that came withX VMS at:.  > 	file:///VMSDOC073/v73/5841/5841pro_008.html#intra_cluster_sec   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:36:25 GMT<* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: File IO query.sB Message-ID: <dcGq8.208507$Gf.19449732@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  , "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message7 news:873e96d6.0204010756.2fbfc587@posting.google.com...g > Hi,t >hG > I have written a testing program to write 10000 records in a file. ItrH > takes less than 4s. However, if I run 48 copies of the testing programH > at the same time (by submit it to a job queue), it takes >47s to write > 10000 records. >e > How to avoid this?   Sorry I missed this earlier.  J Larry is likely correct that your problem is that the way you're using VMSK is causing a separate write to the disk for each record:  200 writes/secondnJ is about what you'd expect from a disk, given that only rotational latencyF is involved (assuming no other significant disk activity is going on).  L He's also correct in suggesting that a central logging process will help - aD lot.  The way to implement it is to use RMS asynchronous I/O (or twoJ separate threads working with each other) such that you can accumulate newK log records from the rest of the world while writing the previous batch andaG then submit the new batch while accumulating the next batch.  This way, G you'll be able to write records at a significant fraction of the disk'snI actual streaming-write capabilitiy (one batch per revolution, rather thanoK one record per revolution as you're getting now) - assuming you use a largeiE enough RMS buffer to avoid performing multiple disk writes per batch.   L If you need even more speed, use RMS 'placement control' to position the logL file on the outer cylinders of the disk (and make it contiguous).  There areJ conditions where delaying your writes a bit to accumulate enough to nearlyD fill an entire disk track might improve things slightly, but only atD boundary rates (i.e., higher or lower rates will avoid the problem).  J I assume you're fsyncing after each log write to make sure it gets to diskK immediately  (as a transactional log would).  If you don't need to do that,dH then you can just accumulate as many log records as will fit in your RMSL buffer before a disk write occurs - and if you use multiple RMS buffers (agaK in, each should be fairly large:  if 127 blocks is still the limit, use it,sJ else more like 128 KB - 256 KB) and the 'multi-buffering' option you won'tJ even need a second thread (since RMS will do the writes transparently eachK time a buffer fills, IIRC).  How much of this you can do through C (without J dealing explicitly with RMS FABs and RABs), and how much of what you can'tI do through C you can do through using DCL to set up before running your Ce program, I'm not sure.   Hope that helps,   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 04:36:32 -0800 , From: don.braffitt@compaq.com (Don Braffitt)1 Subject: Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...)e< Message-ID: <14c5ce2f.0204030436.275d76a@posting.google.com>  c "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c0m> wrote in message news:<a6ven1$24g$1@paris.btinternet.com>...iJ > I notice that Fortran now also offers full support for 64 bit addresses.G > Would you happen to know what's happening with any other languages intI > particular COBOL. We have C, MACRO-32 and now Fortran. Do you ever comen% > across Don Braffit in your travels?    Hi Richard,w  F Compaq COBOL supports access to data using 64 bit addresses on OpenVMS Alpha via USAGE IS POINTER-64e  K   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/cobol/cobrm_015.htm#index_x_486    - Don Braffitt6   Compaq COBOL and SORT project leader (Alpha and VAX)   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:33:24 -0700 (MST)" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>A Subject: Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...) G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0204030615200.14931-100000@athena.csdco.com>t  % On 2 Apr 2002, Larry Kilgallen wrote:o  m > In article <u1mq8.1771$fL6.36125@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:a > P > > In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting Itanium...K > > so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium willuK > > boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot -n- > > written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-)a > D > Fred is a real old-timer.  He does not know that the US governmentC > withdrew $1000 bills from circulation many years ago :-)  He mustHE > have Compaq finance pestering him constantly to _please_ cash those. > prior pay checks.f >     I For a real $1,000 bill see http://www.money.org/paper/lt1000ser70690.html H on a web site that runs on VMS.  Is that distinguished looking gentleman3 on the left Fred contemplating really big problems?u  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:59:00 +0200$9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>UA Subject: Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)h' Message-ID: <3CAB18B4.D70973D9@aaa.com>s  ? Oh, just for no reason at all, anyone know a good, high quality  color printer ?6   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h   John Nebel wrote:  >  > K > For a real $1,000 bill see http://www.money.org/paper/lt1000ser70690.html J > on a web site that runs on VMS.  Is that distinguished looking gentleman5 > on the left Fred contemplating really big problems?c >  > John Nebel   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 09:31:13 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)dA Subject: Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)s3 Message-ID: <FlFrAHYp+362@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  l In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0204030615200.14931-100000@athena.csdco.com>, John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> writes:' > On 2 Apr 2002, Larry Kilgallen wrote:a > n >> In article <u1mq8.1771$fL6.36125@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >> -Q >> > In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting Itanium...oL >> > so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium willL >> > boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot -. >> > written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-) >>  E >> Fred is a real old-timer.  He does not know that the US governmentoD >> withdrew $1000 bills from circulation many years ago :-)  He mustF >> have Compaq finance pestering him constantly to _please_ cash those >> prior pay checks. >> c >  > K > For a real $1,000 bill see http://www.money.org/paper/lt1000ser70690.html1J > on a web site that runs on VMS.  Is that distinguished looking gentleman5 > on the left Fred contemplating really big problems?p  < Possibly, but I think his cubicle looks a little too neat...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:19:20 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> A Subject: Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...)e3 Message-ID: <0aFq8.1804$fL6.36902@news.cpqcorp.net>:  F No.  Actually I did.  Since it was a *joke* I wanted to avoid actually% having someone do something stupid...,    $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...F >In article <u1mq8.1771$fL6.36125@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:n >oD >> In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting
 Itanium...J >> so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium willJ >> boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot -, >> written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-) >uC >Fred is a real old-timer.  He does not know that the US government7B >withdrew $1000 bills from circulation many years ago :-)  He mustD >have Compaq finance pestering him constantly to _please_ cash those >prior pay checks.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:14:00 -0800e. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)A Subject: Re: Fred Kleinsorge at work (formerly HP's viewpoint...) = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0204031014.57b2f407@posting.google.com>o  p "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<0aFq8.1804$fL6.36902@news.cpqcorp.net>...H > No.  Actually I did.  Since it was a *joke* I wanted to avoid actually' > having someone do something stupid...g    F On Car Talk (on NPR) they regularly ask their listeners (both of them,D as they themselves would say!) to write their answers to this week'sC puzzler on the back of a $20 bill, and once even noted that the newwD bills have much more whitespace on which to write! Actually, they'veD expanded that to things like "write your answer on the back of a 36"F [fill in your favorite brand] HDTV set, with 5.1 channel sound, triple PIP, blah, blah, blah..."a  4 And yes, they have a web site with the obvious name.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanr" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com     > & > Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...H > >In article <u1mq8.1771$fL6.36125@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"( >  <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > >mF > >> In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting
 >  Itanium...tL > >> so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium willL > >> boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot -. > >> written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-) > > E > >Fred is a real old-timer.  He does not know that the US government D > >withdrew $1000 bills from circulation many years ago :-)  He mustF > >have Compaq finance pestering him constantly to _please_ cash those > >prior pay checks.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 07:10:50 GMT.- From: John Forkosh <forkosh@panix1.panix.com>h Subject: H7082 power supplye) Message-ID: <a8e9tq$ho4$1@news.panix.com>e  . Can I use an H7082-AA in place of an H7082-AB?, Seems so from specs, but I haven't been able1 to verify that pin-out voltages are all the same.-
 Thanks, John.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:43:43 +01005( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: H7082 power supplyi) Message-ID: <3CAAEAEF.765C4C48@127.0.0.1>C   John Forkosh wrote:* > 0 > Can I use an H7082-AA in place of an H7082-AB?. > Seems so from specs, but I haven't been able3 > to verify that pin-out voltages are all the same.r > Thanks, John.b  H The difference I believe between the -AA and the -AB is that the -AB can3 run on 100v to 240v AC and the -AA is 120v AC only.7  E Email me if you want the pinout voltages (but obviously they are both  the same from my source).t -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:46:35 +0100tB From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux-& Message-ID: <3CAB07BB.8020509@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:30 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyd5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:t >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>H >>>On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:16 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >>><andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>>s >>>g >>>. >>> C >>>>One attribute of technical people is generally an understandingo@ >>>>of what they indevidually know and don't know. This facility> >>>>seems to have deserted you, it seems to have happened soon >>>>after the merger.i >>>> >>>>1 >>>My vote for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002.d >>>  >>>  >>3 >>You are nominating yourself obviously. Or had youu2 >>forgotten your long and dishonourable history of. >>not having much of a clue in a public forum. >> > B > Andy boy, you are such a joke.  My history is of providing true,H > accurate technical information about VMS and VMSclusters... except forE > the few, unfortunately necessary side-trips to deal with this tripe  > from you.  >     3 Sorry matey but you and I know that this isn't trueo6 nor it it even funny. Remind yourself who you work for3 before you post again it will save you looking like  a T**D in public.    Regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:42:54 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux.& Message-ID: <3CAB06DE.6030403@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:57:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:  >  >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>O >>>Hey Sun wipe.  You doing this on billable time?  Why not go and write a real  >>>cluster product.a >>>  >>>h > 8 >>Now thats what I would call a quality, adult response.8 >>Do you want me to start calling you Freddy Baby, seems >>like it.:):):) >> > F > Okay, another note for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002.  Strangely( > enough, both are from the same author. > B > Andy boy, you're such a hypocrite.  And just fyi, since I use anF > off-line newsreader, I have all messages in this group posted in theC > last few months.  Interestingly enough, the FIRST person in thesehC > discussions to start name-calling and personal attacks was YOU!!!hA > Up until that time, while there were disagreements, most peoplevA > recognize that much of the discussions are a matter of personal 
 > opinion.      7 Who do you work for again ?? Ohh I forgot from the high 9 moral tone you have just tried to assume I thought it wase# some other company and not ChomPaq.o  ; If you want rude just contemplate what your customers think-? about you. Your memory is short if you have forgotten Alphacidei: Compaction and all the other things that have been done to shaft your customers.s  ? And there is no wiggling out of this, you are responsible along 9 with the rest of the Choir to a greater or lesser degree.o  @ Who amongst the Choir trumpeted the 25 year life span commitment? made by Digital for Alpha when the whole project was hemoragings= money at a rate the vastly accelerated the demise of Digital.n  7 Who was it who flamed the people who questioned this ??a  > Who amongst the Choir repeated half facts and Marketing BS fed> to them. Great examples of this are statements like Sybase and? Oracle are really interested in OpenVMS because of Galaxies andiB GAlaxies will take over the world. The first part of the statement@ was false neither Oracle or Sybase had expressed any interest in> Galaxies and subsequent actions by both parties only reinforceB this. The second was a prediction that never materialised, in fact! Galaxies have sunk without trace.r  D Who amongst the Choir predicted that WildFire would sweep all before it.   > Who amongst the Choir complained that suggesting that WildFireD would need to use a cluster in a box to perform was false and FUD ??  D Who amongst the Choir whispered that despite public lack of interest@ in OpenVMS by board members that the whole program was alive and well ?  @ Who amongst the Choir proclaimed Alpha for ever Itanic never and@ backed these up with roadmaps and other marketing "collateral" ?  D It is a sad fact that the Choristers most involved in this excercise@ are now the ones who have embraced the new religion of "Industry@ Standard Computing" in the shortest time. They are also the ones> most involved in humming the new tune to the masses out there.  B You were part of all of this which if looked at in hindsight looks? like one decade long shafting of the OpenVMS and Tru64 customere bases.  > So don't assume a high moral tone here, it only makes you look more ridiculous than normal.   Regards  Andrew Harrison>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:51:58 +0100SB From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxp& Message-ID: <3CAB08FE.8060607@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message > <3CA9CA2D.1060403@sun.com>...k >  >  > snip >  > 4 >>>>Which begs the question - what ARE you here for? >>>> >>>>H >>>My best guess is to get Fred upset and disturb his work. I cannot see, >>>_any_ other purpose in his present posts. >>>v >>>4 >>$ >>What exactly does Freddy boy do ?? >>: >>Post Alphacide its a bit difficult to work out though it/ >>isn't apparently anything remotely technical.  >> >> >> > $ > Well, SunWipe(tm)...  let's see... > J > I just finished writing and checking in the X11 drivers for USB mice andN > keyboards for the Marvel release (Marvel will have no legacy ISA bus or junkI > IO)... while I was at it I added "multi-seat" support to allow multiple L > keyboards and mice and graphics devices to be used by independent users onM > the same system.  I also threw in a hack to allow the thumbwheel to be usede > on the USB mouse ;-) > N > I manage the VMS graphics group, which is working on the ATI Radeon 7500 for- > the Marvel release along with other things.a > N > In my spare time, I'm also the project/technical lead for booting Itanium...I > so apparently I can't get into the contest to predict when Itanium willmI > boot... but you can send me your suggestions of when it *should* boot -n+ > written in the margins of $1000 bills ;-)l >     > So why with this obviously impecible engineering background do- you insist on posting tosh to a public forum.h  D Just to remind you I will include a FPF (Freddy Public F***K*P) with each response.  A FPF 1.	Sun will not be able to affort the costs of building SPARCi3 processors. (Sun has never build SPARC processors).t   Regardst Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:30:57 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>uO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxn3 Message-ID: <VkFq8.1805$fL6.36964@news.cpqcorp.net>n  > Andrew Harrison wrote in message <3CAB08FE.8060607@sun.com>...  ? >So why with this obviously impecible engineering background doe. >you insist on posting tosh to a public forum. >o  G So, why with an obvious lack of technical engineering background to yous- insist on claiming you aren't a market droid?i  E >Just to remind you I will include a FPF (Freddy Public F***K*P) witha >each response.t >o  G So SunWipe(tm), what exactly is causing you to lose your cool so badly.fI Your normal bleating tone has become a shrilll whine lately, and now suchr> un-British language.  Tsk, tsk.  Or have you mistaken this for rec.sports.golf ?i  B >FPF 1. Sun will not be able to affort the costs of building SPARC4 >processors. (Sun has never build SPARC processors). >   J So pick a nit.  You don't actually "build" 'em, and that's a problem.  YouK have to pay others to "build" them.  Which means it takes more time than itwI should, you don't have control of the process, and you are probably usingA3 yesterdays process, and/or paying through the nose.u  < Nice architcecture: Something Pathetic And Really Crappy ;-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:12:56 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> O Subject: RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxRT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E14@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew -  E >>> If you want rude just contemplate what your customers think aboutiH you. Your memory is short if you have forgotten Alphacide Compaction andD all the other things that have been done to shaft your customers.<<<  F And do you think Sun's decision to kill Solaris on all 32bit and 64bit< Intel servers was received with great joy by your Customers?  ) If so, then here's some feedback for you-c  2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/23598.html, "User fury as Sun puts x86 Solaris to sleep"  E "You've killed the dream, Sun. New admins *DON'T* have a way to learni* about Sun on the cheap," wrote one user. "  C And of course, we certainly do not want to drag out the old "how to0F treat Customers with ECC cache problems" stories from the past either.  5 Another example of the "pot calling the kettle black"e   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant1 Compaq Canada Corp.m Professional Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Harrisont6 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com]=20 Sent: April 3, 2002 8:43 AMu To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaG Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helpingo ofLinuxd         jlsue wrote:  J > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:57:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=205 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:e >=20 >=20 >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>H >>>Hey Sun wipe.  You doing this on billable time?  Why not go and write   >>>a real cluster product. >>>  >>>  >=208 >>Now thats what I would call a quality, adult response.8 >>Do you want me to start calling you Freddy Baby, seems >>like it.:):):) >> >=20I > Okay, another note for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002.  Strangely=20 ( > enough, both are from the same author. >=20E > Andy boy, you're such a hypocrite.  And just fyi, since I use an=20?I > off-line newsreader, I have all messages in this group posted in the=20yF > last few months.  Interestingly enough, the FIRST person in these=20I > discussions to start name-calling and personal attacks was YOU!!! Up=206H > until that time, while there were disagreements, most people recognize  @ > that much of the discussions are a matter of personal opinion.      7 Who do you work for again ?? Ohh I forgot from the highm9 moral tone you have just tried to assume I thought it was # some other company and not ChomPaq.-  F If you want rude just contemplate what your customers think about you.G Your memory is short if you have forgotten Alphacide Compaction and all'= the other things that have been done to shaft your customers.e  H And there is no wiggling out of this, you are responsible along with the0 rest of the Choir to a greater or lesser degree.  H Who amongst the Choir trumpeted the 25 year life span commitment made byG Digital for Alpha when the whole project was hemoraging money at a rate:- the vastly accelerated the demise of Digital.j  7 Who was it who flamed the people who questioned this ??t  G Who amongst the Choir repeated half facts and Marketing BS fed to them.bG Great examples of this are statements like Sybase and Oracle are reallytE interested in OpenVMS because of Galaxies and GAlaxies will take over.F the world. The first part of the statement was false neither Oracle orG Sybase had expressed any interest in Galaxies and subsequent actions bygH both parties only reinforce this. The second was a prediction that never7 materialised, in fact Galaxies have sunk without trace./  H Who amongst the Choir predicted that WildFire would sweep all before it.  D Who amongst the Choir complained that suggesting that WildFire would> need to use a cluster in a box to perform was false and FUD ??  G Who amongst the Choir whispered that despite public lack of interest in5D OpenVMS by board members that the whole program was alive and well ?  G Who amongst the Choir proclaimed Alpha for ever Itanic never and backed89 these up with roadmaps and other marketing "collateral" ?   H It is a sad fact that the Choristers most involved in this excercise areE now the ones who have embraced the new religion of "Industry StandardmH Computing" in the shortest time. They are also the ones most involved in- humming the new tune to the masses out there.I  G You were part of all of this which if looked at in hindsight looks likeyA one decade long shafting of the OpenVMS and Tru64 customer bases..  C So don't assume a high moral tone here, it only makes you look morew ridiculous than normal.$   Regards; Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:52:43 GMT0* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxpB Message-ID: <vrGq8.101335$VJ1.8346856@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  J Both of you should find something better to do:  you've stopped making any sense.  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:VkFq8.1805$fL6.36964@news.cpqcorp.net...  >e@ > Andrew Harrison wrote in message <3CAB08FE.8060607@sun.com>...   ...1  D > >FPF 1. Sun will not be able to affort the costs of building SPARC6 > >processors. (Sun has never build SPARC processors). > >e >n > So pick a nit.  H The *real* nit is that you (Fred) did not in fact accuse Sun of buildingL SPARCs, just of not being able to afford the costs of building them (builder
 unspecified).0  <   You don't actually "build" 'em, and that's a problem.  YouJ > have to pay others to "build" them.  Which means it takes more time than itK > should, you don't have control of the process, and you are probably using 5 > yesterdays process, and/or paying through the nose.. > > > Nice architcecture: Something Pathetic And Really Crappy ;-)  D So far, that appelation would seem better reserved for Itanic, whichG currently achieves SPARC-level performance at far higher cost and power.I usage.  And in any event such a statement from a Compaq source seems more>J like sour grapes until such time as Compaq proves able to field a platformI that successfully competes with Sun's.  Alpha certainly didn't, no matter L how much better it was (and whether it is in fact any better in systems likeJ Wildfire is subject to some debate, though the ES platforms clearly are) -K and the blame for that ineffectiveness in competing can be laid squarely at + the feet of the people you (Fred) work for.n   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:41:02 -0800l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxo= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204031041.15d8b095@posting.google.com>e  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<3D87M2J4Gmf7@eisner.encompasserve.org>...^ > In article <3CAA0264.E4AFB39A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Bob Ceculski wrote:-L > >> OpenVMS is not now, nor has it ever been, vulnerable to any sort or anyM > >> type of IP exploit.  Why?  Because OpenVMS will completely ignore any IPC7 > >> packet it sees unless you add an IP product to it.n > > Q > > What was that big worm that targetted VMS called again ? (back in the 1980s).v > >  > 3 > 	WANK.  But that was Decnet.  Bob is still right.b > 0 > http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/9.34.html#subj5 > $ > 	What was the recommended cleanup? > A > R. Kevin Oberman from Lawrence Livermore National Labs reports:oG >      "This is a mean bug to kill and could have done a lot of damage.eI >      Since it notifies (by mail) someone of each successful penetration-I >      and leaves a trapdoor (the FIELD account), just killing the bug iswC >      not adequate.  You must go in an make sure all accounts haveHG >      passwords and that the passwords are not the same as the accountg
 >      name.". >  > ? > 	Make sure your accounts have passwords and the passwords are B > 	not the account name.  Sigh... those were the bad old days, eh? > 	 > 				Robw  F we don't even leave any default accounts in sysuaf to get a chance at,D that is if you can bust thru all our ip security and then gain worldF priviliges to get ot sysuaf ... I doubt it!  Heck, the defcon9 hackers; couldn't even get in with a username and password supplied!a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 18:01:55 GMTo( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: IA64 is not the VAX2 Message-ID: <a8fg2j$1c8s$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  3 In article <7bGq8.1813$fL6.36956@news.cpqcorp.net>,u4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:E >But let me assume that there was an intent to illuminate or teach usuJ >something... To address the stupidity in the base note - if killing AlphaM >leads to the same results that killing the DECsystem-20 did -- then lets all L >cheer.  Technical rants and lost souls aside - the VAX/VMS era was the most5 >successful time in the history of Digital Equipment.i  L There are a number of differences between IA64 and the VAX. Technical issues aside:  B 	Digital was 100% behind VAX/VMS: "all the wood behind one arrow",A 	and VMS was a new clean OS design with a single core vision... I A 	don't happen to care much for VMS but I do have to give it that._  C 	CHomPaq has 2 UNIX variants it's trying to merge, a 64 bit NT thatn@ 	it abandoned a few years back and now needs to resuscitate, andC 	three legacy operating systems (and they just killed one of them).H  C 	Plus they have IA32 and x86-64 competing with IA64, and no controloC 	over that. And then there's active Linux work on all four hardwarewB 	platforms (ia32, x86-64, IA64, and Alpha). And it sometimes seemsD 	most of the innovative people left are messing around with iPaq and 	Itsy.   -- t@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 04:11:41 -0500) From: "Info-VAX" <Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com.>-9 Subject: Info-VAX , Your first targeted e-mailing is FREEn" Message-ID: <5062047@MVB.SAIC.COM>  
 =3Chtml=3E  
 =3Chead=3E= =3Ctitle=3ETarget E-mailing & Creative Services=3C=2Ftitle=3EtR =3Cmeta name=3D=22title=22 content=3D=22Target E-mailing & Creative Services=22=3E=3Cmeta name=3D=22description=22 content=3D=22Our custom marketing databases=2C state-of-the-art merge=2Fpurge data hygiene products=2C marketing automation and customer-centric solutions help companies market more effectively to their prospects and customers=2E=22=3E =3Cmeta name=3D=22keywords=22 content=3D=22data warehouse=2C direct email=2C direct mail marketing=2C direct marketing=2C email marketing=2C list of email addresses=2C target marketing=22=3E^ =3Cmeta http-equiv=3D=22Content-Type=22 content=3D=22text=2Fhtml=3B charset=3Diso-8859-1=22=3E =3Cstyle=3Es =3C!-- td=2Ebodytext=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B color=3Ablack=3B } td=2Enavtext=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B color=3Ablack=3B }e a=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B color=3A#000000=3B text-decoration=3A underline=3B hover=3B }w =2Enav=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B color=3A#000000=3B text-decoration=3A none=3B hover=3B }r font=2Ebodytext=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B color=3Ablack=3B } font=2Enavtext=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B color=3A#000000=3B text-decoration=3A none} a=3Ahover=09{  font-family=3A Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=3B font-size=3A 10px=3B font-style=3A normal=3B font-weight=3A normal=3B color=3A #993366=3B } --=3E  =3C=2Fstyle=3E
 =3C=2Fhead=3Ec =3Cbody bgcolor=3D=22#FFFFFF=22 leftmargin=3D=220=22 topmargin=3D=220=22 marginwidth=3D=220=22 marginheight=3D=220=22 text=3D=22#000000=22 link=3D=22#000000=22 vlink=3D=22#000000=22 alink=3D=22#000000=22=3E =3Ctable width=3D=22810=22 border=3D=220=22 cellspacing=3D=220=22 cellpadding=3D=220=22 height=3D=22874=22 bgcolor=3D=22#CCCC99=22=3E.I   =3Ctr bgcolor=3D=22#cccc99=22 align=3D=22left=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E e1     =3Ctd height=3D=2251=22=3E&nbsp=3B=3C=2Ftd=3Ec     =3Ctd height=3D=2251=22=3E m       =3Ctable width=3D=22827=22 border=3D=220=22 cellspacing=3D=220=22 cellpadding=3D=220=22 height=3D=2228=22 bgcolor=3D=22#CCCC66=22=3E         =3Ctr=3E  K           =3Ctd align=3D=22left=22 valign=3D=22top=22 width=3D=22329=22=3E e+             =3Cdiv align=3D=22center=22=3E n               =3Chr=3E               =3Cfont face=3D=22Geneva=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C san-serif=22=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22 face=3D=22Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22 size=3D=224=22=3E=3Cb=3ETarget                 Emailing &amp=3B Creative Services=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22 size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 color=3D=22#993399=22=3E=3Cbr=3E (               =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E               =3Chr=3E               =3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22 size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 color=3D=22#993399=22=3E               =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 size=3D=221=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22 color=3D=22#660099=22=3EHome 7               of 'EMail-IT' True Stealth System=3Cbr=3E                =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#660099=22 size=3D=223=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22 size=3D=224=22=3EPh=3A r               407-539-0615=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E =3C=2Fdiv=3E           =3C=2Ftd=3Eei          =3Ctd align=3D=22center=22 width=3D=22498=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E =3Cfont size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#660099=22=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 color=3D=22#0000FF=22 size=3D=223=22=3E=3Ca href=3D=22mailto=3Aremoval=5Flist4864=40email=2Eit=3Fsubject=3DPleaseRemoveAddress-3578786=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=224=22=3ECLICK               HERE TO BE REMOVED=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fa=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E=3Cbr=3Et             =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3E=3Cbr=3Eu%             FAST! FAST! FAST!=3Cbr=3E:             Use your CABLE or DSL connection for unbelievable SPEEDS!=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3E=3Cbr=3E             =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#000000=22 face=3D=22Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3E&quot=3BFinally=2E=2E=2EFreedom n]             to e-mail safely and never lose your ISP again!&quot=3B =3C=2Ffont=3E =3C=2Ftd=3E)         =3C=2Ftr=3Es       =3C=2Ftable=3E"       =3Cdiv align=3D=22left=22=3E         =3Ctable width=3D=2231%=22 border=3D=220=22 bgcolor=3D=22#FFFFCC=22 height=3D=220%=22 cellpadding=3D=2210=22 align=3D=22center=22=3E           =3Ctr=3E bM             =3Ctd width=3D=2224%=22 align=3D=22left=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E                 =3Ctable width=3D=22100%=22 border=3D=220=22 cellspacing=3D=223=22 cellpadding=3D=225=22 height=3D=220%=22 align=3D=22center=22=3E                 =3Ctr=3E n                   =3Ctd bgcolor=3D=22#000000=22 nowrap valign=3D=22top=22 align=3D=22center=22 height=3D=224=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E&nbsp=3B=3Cfont color=3D=22#FFFFFF=22=3E=3Cb=3ETargeted R                     Opt-In Mailings=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ftd=3E                 =3C=2Ftr=3E:                 =3Ctr=3E n@                   =3Ctd valign=3D=22top=22 width=3D=2224%=22=3E 4                     =3Cdiv align=3D=22justify=22=3E b                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3ETailored for your Z                         individual needs=2E Highly targeted E-mail &quot=3BOpt-In&quot=3B <                         and Postal Mail campaigns=2E=3Cbr=3E                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3E=3Cbr=3E_                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3EIncluded in every campaign at no u=                         extra cost=3A =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3El                       =3Cp align=3D=22left=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3E=3Cb=3EDesign aO                         of your broadcast message including Graphics=2C=3Cbr=3En*                         =3C=2Fb=3E=3Cbr=3E                         =3Cb=3EConversion to HTML and Hosting=2E=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3E=3Cbr=3E                          =3Cbr=3E\                         =3Cb=3EOpt-In List Generation=2FManagement=3A =3C=2Fb=3EWe can help R                         you generate your own opt-in lists or manage your current V                         lists for a fraction of what you would pay a broker=2E=3Cbr=3Ef                         =3Cb=3E 100% List &quot=3BOWNERSHIP&quot=3B !=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E                       =3Cp align=3D=22center=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3EWeb tT                         Site Design=3A Let us design your private marketing site=2E /                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Ee                       =3Cp align=3D=22center=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3ENews R                         Letter Promotions=3A Promote your company through monthly >                         newsletters=2E =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E                       =3Cp align=3D=22center=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=221=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3ERECEIVE h[                         THE GREATEST RETURN ON YOUR MARKETING DOLLAR=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E y                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 face=3D=22Georgia=2C Times New Roman=2C Times=2C serif=22=3ETargeted P2                         Messages Delivered=3Cbr=3EP                         Base Price=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cbr=3E                          =3Cbr=3E<                         500=2C000 Messages $1=2C750 =3Cbr=3E<                         1 Million Messages $3=2C399 =3Cbr=3E<                         2 Million Messages $4=2C499 =3Cbr=3E<                         3 Million Messages $7=2C799 =3Cbr=3E=                         5 Million Messages $12=2C299 =3Cbr=3EeM                         10 Million Messages $16=2C899 =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Efh                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#660099=22=3E&quot=3BCompanies Q                         who outsource their e-mail marketing operations actually tS                         have a better conversion rate =286%=29 than companies that T[                         do not =281=2E4%=29=2E&quot=3B =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E                        =3Cp=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 size=3D=221=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cb=3EMore h                         info=3A 407-539-0615=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E =3C=2Fp=3E                      =3C=2Fdiv=3E                   =3C=2Ftd=3Eb                 =3C=2Ftr=3EU               =3C=2Ftable=3E             =3C=2Ftd=3EbM             =3Ctd width=3D=2224%=22 align=3D=22left=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E l               =3Ctable width=3D=2236%=22 border=3D=220=22 cellspacing=3D=223=22 cellpadding=3D=225=22 align=3D=22center=22 height=3D=22454=22=3E                 =3Ctr=3E a                   =3Ctd bgcolor=3D=22#CCCC66=22 nowrap valign=3D=22top=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Verdana=2C Arial=2C Helvetica=2C sans-serif=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#FFFFFF=22=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3EFresh R                     Email Addresses=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ftd=3E                 =3C=2Ftr=3Er                 =3Ctr=3E df                   =3Ctd valign=3D=22top=22 align=3D=22left=22 width=3D=2224%=22 height=3D=22378=22=3E 4                     =3Cdiv align=3D=22justify=22=3E ]                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3EThe key to a good return on your email HS                         campaign is NEW addresses=2E Our automated servers harvest 8U                         new addresses around the clock=2E We offer lists as a direct eR                         purchase or as a monthly service=2E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3EY                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E250=2C000 e-mails $100=2E00=3Cbr=3Ew;                         500=2C000 e-mails $125=2E00=3Cbr=3E.?                         1=2C000=2C000 e-mails $200=2E00=3Cbr=3Ei?                         5=2C000=2C000 e-mails $400=2E00=3Cbr=3E                          =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 size=3D=221=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cbr=3Ec                         =3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22 size=3D=223=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E=3Cb=3E407-539-0615=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E ec                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=223=22=3E =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Eo                       =3Cp align=3D=22left=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3EMonthly 1                         Service 150=2E00*=3Cbr=3E ,                         Includes=3A =3Cbr=3E=                         4=2C000=2C000 e-mails=2Fmonth=3Cbr=3EaE                         'E-Mail-IT' Cloaking Software Updates=3Cbr=3Et*                         FTP Access=3Cbr=3EE                         URL Cloaking Software =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Em                      =3C=2Fdiv=3E4                     =3Cdiv align=3D=22justify=22=3E                        =3Cp align=3D=22center=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E*Three -P                         months required=2C lists and software download from our <                         FTP server=2E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E                      =3C=2Fdiv=3E                   =3C=2Ftd=3E.                 =3C=2Ftr=3Eo               =3C=2Ftable=3E             =3C=2Ftd=3EtO             =3Ctd width=3D=2224%=22 align=3D=22center=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E 2               =3Ctable width=3D=2226%=22 border=3D=220=22 cellspacing=3D=223=22 cellpadding=3D=225=22 height=3D=22417=22 align=3D=22center=22=3E                 =3Ctr=3E r                   =3Ctd bgcolor=3D=22#660099=22 nowrap height=3D=2219=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#FFFFFF=22=3EEmail-IT G                     CSC Proxy Service=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ftd=3Es                 =3C=2Ftr=3Et                 =3Ctr=3E th                   =3Ctd valign=3D=22top=22 width=3D=2224%=22 align=3D=22center=22 height=3D=22386=22=3E 4                     =3Cdiv align=3D=22justify=22=3E i                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cb=3ESend your e-mails tY                         directly through our servers=2E =3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Etb                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3EOur in house =3Cb=3E'Email-IT' True Stealth Y                         System=3C=2Fb=3E is based on Unix know-how sending technology=2C aM                         providing real anonymous instant delivery=2E =3Cbr=3Ee                          =3Cbr=3EO                         Forget problems with ISP 's your IP address will never iQ                         be shown in our e-mail headers=2E =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Et_                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3EYou send directly into OUR servers which w]                         then send your mail out to the world=2C FAST!=3C=2Ffont=3E =3C=2Fp=3E@d                       =3Cp align=3D=22center=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3EFAST! FAST! FAST!=3Cbr=3EY                         Use your CABLE or DSL connection for mind blowing SPEEDS!=3Cbr=3Eg/                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Eag                       =3Cp align=3D=22center=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E'Email-IT' Pricing is based  R                         on number of e-mails you can send monthly=2E You only pay ?                         for what you send successfully!=3Cbr=3Eh                          =3Cbr=3E0                         Priced from $400=3Cbr=3E                        =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 size=3D=221=22=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont size=3D=223=22=3EInfo=3A=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22 size=3D=223=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E=3Cb=3E407-539-0615=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E t<                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E                      =3C=2Fdiv=3E                   =3C=2Ftd=3Ep                 =3C=2Ftr=3Eo               =3C=2Ftable=3E             =3C=2Ftd=3ElO             =3Ctd width=3D=2224%=22 align=3D=22center=22 valign=3D=22top=22=3E e{               =3Ctable width=3D=2289%=22 border=3D=220=22 cellspacing=3D=223=22 cellpadding=3D=225=22 height=3D=22365=22=3E                  =3Ctr=3E ?                   =3Ctd bgcolor=3D=22#993399=22 nowrap valign=3D=22top=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E&nbsp=3B=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#FFFFFF=22=3E=3Cb=3ESafe V                     Bulk Email Software=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ftd=3E                 =3C=2Ftr=3E3                 =3Ctr=3E tS                   =3Ctd valign=3D=22top=22 width=3D=2224%=22 height=3D=22390=22=3E 24                     =3Cdiv align=3D=22justify=22=3E b                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3EDon't worry about U                         losing your ISP again=2E Our NEW software system goes beyond iQ                         open relays and desktop servers=2E This is NEW and it is EA                         the ONLY software of it's kind=2E=3Cbr=3Ec/                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3Eih                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3E'EMail-IT' Home &amp=3B 6                         Office Kit Includes=3A=3Cbr=3E^                         =3Cfont color=3D=22#333333=22=3E=3Cb=3EStealth System Software=3Cbr=3E+                         Bulk Mailer=3Cbr=3Ey,                         List Manager=3Cbr=3E/                         Email Extractor=3Cbr=3Ei                         =3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#333333=22=3EDaisy /                         Chain Connector=3Cbr=3E37                         WWW URL Cloaking Device=3Cbr=3Er                         1 User License and Key=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3Cb=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#333333=22=3E=3Cbr=3Eo5                         2 Instructional Cd's =3Cbr=3Eie                         1 =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3E'EMail-IT' =                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#333333=22=3EOwners=3C=2Ffont=3E o                         =3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#333333=22=3EManual=3Cbr=3E=p                         1 Full hour walk through =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#333333=22=3Eof                          your installation and set up!=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22 color=3D=22#333333=22=3E=3Cbr=3E0j                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fb=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cbr=3E1                         Also includes=3A =3Cbr=3E =                         Complete How To Files &amp=3B=3Cbr=3E2A                         Telephone Support*=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E2o                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22=3EPrice=3A $475=3Cbr=3Eej                         =3C=2Ffont=3E Fedex=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22=3E shipping included!=3Cbr=3E                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22 size=3D=221=22=3E=3Cbr=3E                        =3Cfont color=3D=22#993399=22 size=3D=223=22=3E=3Cfont face=3D=22Tahoma=2C Verdana=2C Georgia=2C Arial=22=3E=3Cb=3E407-539-0615=3C=2Fb=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22 size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cbr=3Ex                         =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E=3Cfont class=3D=22textblack10=22=3E =3C=2Ffont=3E=3Cbr=3Ei                         =3Cb=3EO=3C=2Fb=3Erder now and we will start you off with 100=2C000=3C=2Ffont=3E  8                         fresh email addresses=2E=3Cbr=3E                        =3C=2Fp=3E`                       =3Cp=3E=3Cfont size=3D=222=22=3E*Telephone Support Free for first 30 days 6                         only=2E=3C=2Ffont=3E=3C=2Fp=3E                      =3C=2Fdiv=3E                   =3C=2Ftd=3E2                 =3C=2Ftr=3E2               =3C=2Ftable=3E             =3C=2Ftd=3E            =3C=2Ftr=3E0         =3C=2Ftable=3E       =3C=2Fdiv=3E     =3C=2Ftd=3Ee
   =3C=2Ftr=3E  =3C=2Ftable=3E =3Cbr=3E
 =3C=2Fbody=3E2  
 =3C=2Fhtml=3ED   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 08:48:50 -0600=- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)3M Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)F3 Message-ID: <pTAcWd7uT3Ev@eisner.encompasserve.org>=   In article <rdeininger-0304020754090001@1cust113.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:K > In article <WCNoAGXoV5Nw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netC > (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > G >>In article <%Mwq8.12194$ml2.968128@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, , > "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org> writes:B >>>> "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message2 >>>> news:oSIo8.1639$fL6.31660@news.cpqcorp.net... >>>>> Dear Newsgroup,= >>>>>3K >>>>> We now have a booting contest up on the web.  Give it your best shot.=/ >>>>> http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/u >>> E >>> How about encouraging 3rd party VMS vendors to continue the themeoG >>> by having their own contests all of which can be easiy located from  >>> the VMSboot contest page?G >>C >>Likely some third parties are more equal when it comes to getting2 >>early copies of Itanium VMS. > I > That wouldn't stop them from having contests, however. In fact, it only08 > adds to the challenge of guessing the right date.  :-) > G > If a vendor writes software in Ada, only a compile and link should be H > necessary.  So I'd guess that such a vendor would ship product one day3 > after receipt of GNAT for Itanium on VMS.  Right?=  A 1. The GNAT compilation model is quite different from Compaq Ada,#@    meaning any build procedures that work on VAX and Alpha would*    have to be entirely different for GNAT.  A 2. ACT standardizes their distribution even to customers as being @    only via Internet.  Unless Compaq makes a change to that, the>    GNAT compiler will be unavailable to those of us who do not#    take software over the Interne.tE  = 3. For a single developer to use their software with support,=;    ACT charges 24 times what the Compaq CSA program chargesi    for all products.  7 4. I have seen no clear statement that the ACT product, 9    even if available, would work with the VMS debugger on     Itanium.i  9 5. Considering the _severe_ limitations of the Compaq Ada :    compiler with regard to VEST (e.g., not even supporting:    the /TIE qualifier for calling non-Ada shareable images;    that are VESTed, it would seem that Ada support would be :    quite tricky for the new Binary Translator.  Yet at the9    September DECUS conference in Anaheim, questions aboutl;    the new Binary Translator in regard to Ada received only :    cursory handwaving.  I got a close look at what it took;    the VEST creators to pound their creation into somethingc9    that could be used even some of the time, so I get thet7    overall impression that the difficulty of the BinaryR7    Translator promised for Itanium VMS has been grossly     underestimated.  = 6. Even the output of VEST never worked with the VMS Debugger <    on Alpha.  I have seen no clear statement that the output=    of the new Binary Translator will support the VMS Debugger2;    on Itanium.  That was a major problem with VEST -- blind=;    translations that happened to work were OK, but if theres:    was any problem ISVs had absolutely no way to debug the    problem.b  < All in all, those who want to use existing VMS products that< are written in Ada would be wise to keep buying Alphas while< they are still available.  Even better would be to buy VAXes; from eBay, since the Alpha VMS debugger still cannot handle3: Ada variant records properly, the way the VAX VMS debugger does.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:38:55 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nM Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)%, Message-ID: <3CAB220C.C54C90EF@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:> > All in all, those who want to use existing VMS products that> > are written in Ada would be wise to keep buying Alphas while > they are still available.   K Is it correct to state that ADA is in widespread use with the military ? Or / has the military switched to another language ?   M *IF* Ada is key to the military, and if the military relies heavily on VMS, IeQ find it interesting that Digital/Compaq/HP would not port Ada to that IA64 thing.=  L Since Compaq has visited its most important customers since June 25, I wouldK think that the military's needs with regards to the port to IA64 would have3 been a high priority.c  H Is it possible that the military intends to stay on alpha-VMS as long asL possible, so there would be no immediate need to port the stuff the military needs ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:39:43 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> M Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)33 Message-ID: <7tFq8.1808$fL6.36969@news.cpqcorp.net>   C I would say that there are some parts of the military, and specific=J applications that are in Ada.  But it never really became "universal", andK with the changes to COTS and such, you probably see as much or more C, C++, A Java, and even lots of old Fortran being used in defense systems.   8 Besides, there *will* be a Ada compiler for VMS on IA64.      = JF Mezei wrote in message <3CAB220C.C54C90EF@videotron.ca>...  >Larry Kilgallen wrote:C? >> All in all, those who want to use existing VMS products thatp? >> are written in Ada would be wise to keep buying Alphas whilei >> they are still available. > L >Is it correct to state that ADA is in widespread use with the military ? Or0 >has the military switched to another language ? >BL >*IF* Ada is key to the military, and if the military relies heavily on VMS, IrK >find it interesting that Digital/Compaq/HP would not port Ada to that IA64  thing. >=G >Since Compaq has visited its most important customers since June 25, I3 would3L >think that the military's needs with regards to the port to IA64 would have >been a high priority. > I >Is it possible that the military intends to stay on alpha-VMS as long as=D >possible, so there would be no immediate need to port the stuff the military >needs ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:12:42 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>lM Subject: RE: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)39 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOJEKAA.tom@kednos.com>o   And PL/I   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:40 AM= > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrF > Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot
 > contest) >= >oE > I would say that there are some parts of the military, and specificEL > applications that are in Ada.  But it never really became "universal", and@ > with the changes to COTS and such, you probably see as much or > more C, C++,C > Java, and even lots of old Fortran being used in defense systems.g > : > Besides, there *will* be a Ada compiler for VMS on IA64. >  >r >e? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3CAB220C.C54C90EF@videotron.ca>...  > >Larry Kilgallen wrote:2A > >> All in all, those who want to use existing VMS products that A > >> are written in Ada would be wise to keep buying Alphas while  > >> they are still available. > >=@ > >Is it correct to state that ADA is in widespread use with the > military ? Or02 > >has the military switched to another language ? > > > > >*IF* Ada is key to the military, and if the military relies > heavily on VMS,  > I C > >find it interesting that Digital/Compaq/HP would not port Ada too > that IA64T > thing. > >aI > >Since Compaq has visited its most important customers since June 25, IC > would C > >think that the military's needs with regards to the port to IA649 > would have > >been a high priority. > >aK > >Is it possible that the military intends to stay on alpha-VMS as long as3F > >possible, so there would be no immediate need to port the stuff the
 > military
 > >needs ? >F >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:41:11 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>M Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)3) Message-ID: <3CAB30A7.BB0349F9@127.0.0.1>b   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:E > I would say that there are some parts of the military, and specificML > applications that are in Ada.  But it never really became "universal", andM > with the changes to COTS and such, you probably see as much or more C, C++,mC > Java, and even lots of old Fortran being used in defense systems.3  G Possibly true, but a huge amount of development and testing takes placen9 on one platform, for eventual delivery to another target.A  : > Besides, there *will* be a Ada compiler for VMS on IA64.  8 But how compatible will it be with the DEC Ada compiler?  = I'll respond to something in the post you replied to as well:= (Attribution may be wrong)  ? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3CAB220C.C54C90EF@videotron.ca>...l > >Larry Kilgallen wrote:3  K > >Is it possible that the military intends to stay on alpha-VMS as long as=F > >possible, so there would be no immediate need to port the stuff the
 > military
 > >needs ?  H Military hardware (particularly aircraft) tends to have a long lifespan,H and as such also needs to be able to be re engineered. The qualificationC process is anti-change. So yes they stay on old versions for a longaD time, but when faced with a lot of re-engineering work, the platformH itself also becomes questioned, and VMS can lose potential custom. As JFF (I think) pointed out, the military don't appear to be one of Compaq's key segments, ce la vie.  1 I wish I could say more, but the OSA prevents me.3  F Personally I believe it is a mistake not to have DEC Ada, or perhaps a "/DEC" qualifier in GNAT.C -- c( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:05:10 -0500F- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>3M Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest) , Message-ID: <3CAB363F.2AE4CC91@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:J > itself also becomes questioned, and VMS can lose potential custom. As JFH > (I think) pointed out, the military don't appear to be one of Compaq's > key segments, ce la vie.  N I thought that Compaq viewed the military as one of the few VMS niche markets.N This is what puzzles me, since one would think that Compaq would take steps toK preserve its last few remaining niche marklets (or is the military the last  one ?).n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:59:20 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>=M Subject: RE: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)s9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEOLEKAA.tom@kednos.com>r  D Well, while Clinton was still President, the Office of the presidentG had VMS systems with apps written in PL/I.  Don't know if that is stillc	 the case.d   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]) > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:05 AMu > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F > Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot
 > contest) >  >  > Nic Clews wrote:L > > itself also becomes questioned, and VMS can lose potential custom. As JFJ > > (I think) pointed out, the military don't appear to be one of Compaq's > > key segments, ce la vie. >3A > I thought that Compaq viewed the military as one of the few VMS= > niche markets.B > This is what puzzles me, since one would think that Compaq would > take steps to=; > preserve its last few remaining niche marklets (or is then > military the last 	 > one ?).  >3   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:35:56 -08003( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)M Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest)g= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204031035.2b7ed608@posting.google.com>r  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CAB220C.C54C90EF@videotron.ca>...t > Larry Kilgallen wrote:@ > > All in all, those who want to use existing VMS products that@ > > are written in Ada would be wise to keep buying Alphas while > > they are still available.  > M > Is it correct to state that ADA is in widespread use with the military ? Or=1 > has the military switched to another language ?r > O > *IF* Ada is key to the military, and if the military relies heavily on VMS, I=S > find it interesting that Digital/Compaq/HP would not port Ada to that IA64 thing.  > N > Since Compaq has visited its most important customers since June 25, I wouldM > think that the military's needs with regards to the port to IA64 would havew > been a high priority.  > J > Is it possible that the military intends to stay on alpha-VMS as long asN > possible, so there would be no immediate need to port the stuff the military	 > needs ?   G looking at EV7 numbers, they will be able to for a long time, at least =G 5-7 years, and why should they port from the best chip out there?  they ( are not stupid, at least most aren't! ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:14:16 +0100e4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS8 Message-ID: <6bnlauc7o2vdsrbchr8hndupd5ji8r3543@4ax.com>  4 On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:44:05 -0000, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote:C  I >: My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored in M >: "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to countRJ >: the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of the> >: winner numbers and values has gone down since they started. >3* >Not in a database, in a transaction file. > C >In fact, all N systems' tapes must agree on the ticket details for B >it to be validated.  Your system would allow a privileged user to# >hack a winning ticket into memory.   ; My "system" was merely intended to be an add-on to the core2F database/transaction file to produce (very much faster) a count of theI winners, that's all.  I have half a suspicion that the lottery organisersnG may not actually think this is a good thing, but presume anyone sitting=H clutching a jackpot winning ticket would much prefer to know by the timeH they had mentally checked all 6 numbers that they had scooped the lot...     	John3   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:02:47 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI) Message-ID: <3CAAC537.20915903@127.0.0.1>r   Keith Parris wrote:   F > (Interestingly, on DSSI, another technology often deprecated because@ > of its low bandwidth (4 MB/sec) and considered old and slow, ID > recently measured lock latency at about 330 microseconds, which isD > actually better than CI.)  Latency on LANs was between 230 and 285 > microseconds.  1  F Now there is an interesting thing. I've always felt DSSI keeps gettingF overlooked for no good reason, OK, so it's not the hottest and latest,A but it's respectable, and you can get PCI DSSI for Alphas and the ; reasonably popular 4xxx series of VAX have DSSI 'embedded'.=  H This is particularly important as we're considering upgrade to V7.3 on aD cluster with a CIQBA, and MTI don't [apparently] support this device> above 7.2. Looks like we'll have to move the storage to a DSSIG connection, as well as use it as the inter system cluster interconnect.t
 (c/w LAN).  D I really would have liked to have seen Verell's "CI speeds compared"< with DSSI included. I had a chat with him before he gave the1 presentation last year but didn't give much away!3  G For completeness Keith, do you have the lock latency on 10 MB/s LAN vs.o* DSSI on VAX? [Any other relevant figures?]   -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comE   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:39:41 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>d" Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI+ Message-ID: <3CAB142D.C55D03EC@mediasec.de>=  I > MC even comes close to the speed of Galaxy Shared Memory Interconnect, t; > where I measured about 100 microseconds for lock latency.0  G 'scuse me - 100 000 cycles latency for exchanging a simple lock request: over shared memory!?   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:06:29 +0200m) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>0" Subject: Re: Memory Channel vs. CI- Message-ID: <3CAB44A5.40400@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Nic Clews wrote: > Keith Parris wrote:5 >  > F >>(Interestingly, on DSSI, another technology often deprecated because@ >>of its low bandwidth (4 MB/sec) and considered old and slow, ID >>recently measured lock latency at about 330 microseconds, which isD >>actually better than CI.)  Latency on LANs was between 230 and 285 >>microseconds.  n >  > H > Now there is an interesting thing. I've always felt DSSI keeps gettingH > overlooked for no good reason, OK, so it's not the hottest and latest,C > but it's respectable, and you can get PCI DSSI for Alphas and the = > reasonably popular 4xxx series of VAX have DSSI 'embedded'.s  E Remember that newer Alpha's (I know the ES40 doesn't), don't support  A DSSI disks from the console. Therefore, you can't boot from DSSI t connected disks.   > J > This is particularly important as we're considering upgrade to V7.3 on aF > cluster with a CIQBA, and MTI don't [apparently] support this device@ > above 7.2. Looks like we'll have to move the storage to a DSSII > connection, as well as use it as the inter system cluster interconnect.o > (c/w LAN). > F > I really would have liked to have seen Verell's "CI speeds compared"> > with DSSI included. I had a chat with him before he gave the3 > presentation last year but didn't give much away!h > I > For completeness Keith, do you have the lock latency on 10 MB/s LAN vs.n, > DSSI on VAX? [Any other relevant figures?] >   	 Bart Zornp   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:51:17 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>I Subject: New OpenVMS Training for System Managers: Awareness Announcement 3 Message-ID: <B8Iq8.1821$fL6.36955@news.cpqcorp.net>r  > Dear Newsgroup, I just received this and wanted to pass it on.  
 Warm Regards,t   Suee  L ____________________________________________________________________________< ____________________________________________________________  L This announcement represents a significant marketing opportunity for HPS andK our training partners to generate business in the OpenVMS installed base ofoK customers. The formal announcement of the new training availability will beS made in late May or early June.e  K This announcement is to provide you early notice of a significant change inlJ Compaq's OpenVMS System Manager training courseware. The new courseware is& expected to be available in June 2002.  E Based on our many years of training experience and in response to ouroL customers changing needs, HPS Training redesigned the OpenVMS System ManagerF training curriculum. In June, HPS Training will be introducing the newJ System Manager curriculum comprised of four new courses. These new coursesJ are designed to meet the needs of today's system managers and will replaceJ six of the current OpenVMS system management courses. The new courses willE be available through Compaq's Authorized Training Partners and Compaq ' Training Centers through out the world.a  , The curriculum consists of four new courses:  - OpenVMS Fundamentals (redesigned and updated)   B OpenVMS System Manager I: Essentials for Established Systems (New)  L OpenVMS System Manager II: Installation, Configuration & Customization (New)  & Managing Complex OpenVMS Systems (New)  J Each course is designed to give the students the best possible combinationL of classroom lecture and practical laboratory exercises they need to get the# most from their OpenVMS investment.:  K New worldwide course numbers will be assigned to the new courses very soon.    Obsolete Coursewareo  K The courses listed below are obsolete and should be removed from your plansgK and deliveries. The old course materials, student guides and so forth, willwE no longer be available after June 30. The courses being replaced are:s  $  OpenVMS V7.3 Fundamentals (CS930A)  9  OpenVMS System and Network Node Management I (EY-T446E)A  :  OpenVMS System and Network Node Management II (EY-T448E)  3  Managing and Configuring Open VMS Cluster Systemsw  >  OpenVMS System Troubleshooting for System Managers (EY-T445)  <  Managing OpenVMS Galaxy V7.3 on GS-Series Systems (CS893A)  J For more information, contact Steve Ladew, Worldwide HPS Training Liaison.   Steve Ladew   * Regional Liaison: HPS Training Development   Compaq Computer Corporations   Office: 01-603-884-5926i   Office FAX: 01-603-884-5002    Home: 01-603-424-0747   ! Our latest HPS Training Catalogs!e  % http://alphatraining.inet.cpqcorp.netF   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:10:40 +0100r- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>t7 Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes running 1 Message-ID: <3CAAC710.1D0708E4@BlueBubble.UK.Com>t   David Waine wrote:  N > As an Easter Holiday project I'm trying to get 2 old Alpha Stations working.L > I have a load of rather disjointed questions to ask, if someone could fill4 > in some of the answers, that would be very useful.   [...snip...]  M David, where are you geographically located ?  I'd guess somewhere in the UK. O If you're reasonably close to where I live (near Saffron Walden, 10 miles southoA of Cambridge), then let me know;  I can give you some assistance.d  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:25:25 +0100+ From: "David Waine" <davidwaine@myopal.net> 7 Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes runningB3 Message-ID: <56Gq8.14$Y2.45@news-1.opaltelecom.net>r   Dear ng,  L Thanks to those who responded through the ng and e-mail.  The long and short? of it is that I've got the VMS box working and should have readp  5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmlh  K before posting as this answered all of my questions (including sources of aiJ selection of on-line and hard-copy tutorials).  As a result of reading theI above, I've realised that this could be a big project...  (learning VMS If mean).  % Anyway thanks for the welcoming help.-   ---- David Waine,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:43:48 +0100RB From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...s& Message-ID: <3CAAF904.4030500@sun.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:K  A > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:r >  > F >>C'mon Andrew, how many CERT advisories has Solaris had over the last >>ten years? >> >  : > ? >>Last count I heard was over 400, and you can manage to cite 3s- >>problems with VMS. Where's the competition?l >> > B > HPUS is running several 'Security Notice's a week. Won't that be > wonderfull...  > 4 > BTW Andrew, do you have a working e-mail address?? >  >      Sure   firstname.surname@sun.come   Regardse Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:05:23 +0100MB From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...o" Message-ID: <3CAAFE13.507@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:57:56 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:d >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>G >>>What a bunch of crap.  You pay for it with other OSs just as much as F >>>with VMS.  Just because it's a "hidden" cost doesn't mean it doesn'	 >>>exist.n >>>i >>>s >>< >>Solaris is free on SPARC machines so the IP stack costs 0.; >>Do you give commercial licences for OpenVMS away for freet  >>last time I looked you didn't. >>     > B > Andrew, NOTHING is free.  The cost of SPARC machines - includingA > software - must be recovered somewhere, somehow.  It may all beeE > considered in overhead costs, but no profit-oriented business givesr" > anything away for absolute free. >     @ I had a bit of a chuckle over this. You after all worked for the> company (Digital) that lost money on every AlphaServer sold if> you included the cost of the FAB. We used to tell customers toA buy as many Alpha boxes as they could since it was only hasteningB Digitals demise.  > But in answer to your question its all relative. Sun sells the= Netra X1 for 999 dollars, it includes a commercial Solaris OSa< Server licence. What does OpenVMS cost for a commercial user? with an IP stack. Looking at  DS10 configured with Linux (Free) = and with OpenVMS (not free) you end up with a differential ofe? over 1000 dollars. Or put it another way you can get a completen> server with OS licenses from Sun for less than the cost of the; OS licenses for OpenVMS. Bargain and guess what many peopleM* who contribute to this group think so too.   Regards    Andrew Harrison'   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:22:31 -0800u( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...y= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204031022.1672ab41@posting.google.com>d  l Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CAAFE13.507@sun.com>... > jlsue wrote: > I > > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:57:56 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 > > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:e > >  > > D > > Andrew, NOTHING is free.  The cost of SPARC machines - includingC > > software - must be recovered somewhere, somehow.  It may all beoG > > considered in overhead costs, but no profit-oriented business gives $ > > anything away for absolute free. > >   B > I had a bit of a chuckle over this. You after all worked for the@ > company (Digital) that lost money on every AlphaServer sold if@ > you included the cost of the FAB. We used to tell customers toC > buy as many Alpha boxes as they could since it was only hastening  > Digitals demise. > @ > But in answer to your question its all relative. Sun sells the? > Netra X1 for 999 dollars, it includes a commercial Solaris OSu> > Server licence. What does OpenVMS cost for a commercial userA > with an IP stack. Looking at  DS10 configured with Linux (Free)t? > and with OpenVMS (not free) you end up with a differential ofAA > over 1000 dollars. Or put it another way you can get a completeo@ > server with OS licenses from Sun for less than the cost of the= > OS licenses for OpenVMS. Bargain and guess what many people , > who contribute to this group think so too. > 
 > Regards  >  > Andrew Harrisonl  B but you are not listening, "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" ... vms overA slowaris is a no brainer, and you then have the only "unhackable":B os in the world as declared by defcon9 and soon to be defcon10 ...@ have you warmed up a box and bought a ticket to Vegas to compete8 or are you scared to put your money where your mouth is?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:31:32 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comY Subject: Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest         for Openz4 Message-ID: <C2256B90.005FCB99.00@jklh22.valmet.com>   go tor http://support.microsoft.com highlight the window below Search (KB)u and type a W, for example( Wheel Mouse will appear./ Hit the down-arrow and you will scroll the W's.a" Hit I and it will jump to the I's.E Click the pulldown and you will see the list from the letter you hit.o        / Kilgallen@spamcop.net on 04/03/2002 09:52:13 AM   ' Please respond to Kilgallen@spamcop.nete   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com= cc:iM Subject:  Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest ford       OpenVMS on Intel)s      O In article <C2256B90.0049A5B3.00@jklh22.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com  writes:-  O > Usually, you can type one letter in the list window and jump into the choiceswP > (and MA is the first Postal Code starting with M, although not the first stateM > alphabetically, if the list is ordered by full state name - then you need ac > couple > of down-arrows).  A That has never been my experience.  Can you give an example URL ?c   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 12:31:54 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nY Subject: Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest         for Open 3 Message-ID: <mp9hYX5cJOaN@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  W In article <C2256B90.005FCB99.00@jklh22.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:  >  >  > go toa > http://support.microsoft.com > highlight the window below
 > Search (KB)t  C Below that (and above "Support Menu" I see a text link "Search Now"q@ and a white arrow pointing right with a green square background.   > and type a W, for exampled > Wheel Mouse will appear.  A No, a W appears in place of the URL up at the top of the Netscapea Communicator window.  1 > Hit the down-arrow and you will scroll the W's.e$ > Hit I and it will jump to the I's.G > Click the pulldown and you will see the list from the letter you hit.a  A Perhaps you have me confused with someone who enables JavaScript.r6 I though you had been around this newsgroup longer :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:51:25 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comY Subject: Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest         for Open64 Message-ID: <C2256B90.00671D04.00@jklh22.valmet.com>  C What do I know of JavaScript and Netscape (and IE for that matter);w I do my work on VMS.  ;-)a        / Kilgallen@spamcop.net on 04/03/2002 01:31:54 PM   ' Please respond to Kilgallen@spamcop.neto   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comn cc::I Subject:  Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest:       for OpenVMS on Intel)s      O In article <C2256B90.005FCB99.00@jklh22.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com  writes:  >y >m > go tom > http://support.microsoft.com > highlight the window below
 > Search (KB)   C Below that (and above "Support Menu" I see a text link "Search Now""@ and a white arrow pointing right with a green square background.   > and type a W, for examplee > Wheel Mouse will appear.  A No, a W appears in place of the URL up at the top of the Netscapeg Communicator window.  1 > Hit the down-arrow and you will scroll the W's.i$ > Hit I and it will jump to the I's.G > Click the pulldown and you will see the list from the letter you hit.   A Perhaps you have me confused with someone who enables JavaScript.-6 I though you had been around this newsgroup longer :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:29:38 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comY Subject: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest for         OpenVMS  4 Message-ID: <C2256B90.0049A5B3.00@jklh22.valmet.com>   Larry,M Usually, you can type one letter in the list window and jump into the choicessN (and MA is the first Postal Code starting with M, although not the first stateK alphabetically, if the list is ordered by full state name - then you need af couple of down-arrows). -Normd        / Kilgallen@spamcop.net on 04/03/2002 07:04:38 AMs  ' Please respond to Kilgallen@spamcop.netC   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coms cc:y< Subject:  Re: Announcing a boot contest for OpenVMS on Intel      ; In article <3CAAE16E.3C9D42B5@BlueBubble.UK.Com>, Roy Omondl% <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:r > Patrick Young wrote: > L >> Many thanks - this looks interesting! I have one gripe BTW, and it is one& >> I have with *many* US web sites.... >>< >> State: <drop down menu with US/Canada states listed only>N >> Country <drop down menu with US/Canada as well as _other_ countries listed> >> >> State *not* being optional. >>K >> Well, I guess I live in Sydney which is located in California which is akJ >> state of Australia. Who am I to argue - people who design web templates >> know best :-) >e > One of my pet peeves too.e  A From the US, my pet web-form-state peeve is the requirement to go F down a long popup list of states to choose the two-letter abbreviation for the state in which I live.  B I am actually so intellectually advanced that I can _remember_ theD two letter abbreviation fo the state where I have lived for the past 40 years :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 08:52:13 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)iY Subject: Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest for         Open 3 Message-ID: <EvV6ZwC8SYC0@eisner.encompasserve.org>Z  W In article <C2256B90.0049A5B3.00@jklh22.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:a  O > Usually, you can type one letter in the list window and jump into the choicesyP > (and MA is the first Postal Code starting with M, although not the first stateM > alphabetically, if the list is ordered by full state name - then you need au > couple > of down-arrows).  A That has never been my experience.  Can you give an example URL ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:50:48 GMTa! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>oY Subject: Re: OT: Choosing from Lists (was: Re: Announcing a boot contest for         Openn> Message-ID: <Xns91E5827651402acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  ; Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) enlightened us withe, news:EvV6ZwC8SYC0@eisner.encompasserve.org:   6 > In article <C2256B90.0049A5B3.00@jklh22.valmet.com>,% > norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:   > ? >> Usually, you can type one letter in the list window and jump.B >> into the choices (and MA is the first Postal Code starting withA >> M, although not the first state alphabetically, if the list ist6 >> ordered by full state name - then you need a couple >> of down-arrows).n > A > That has never been my experience.  Can you give an example URLl > ?   < Browser dependant ? FYI: Internet Explorer 5.1+ does it....    -Andy-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:03:45 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)F Subject: Re: Possible (mis)behavior of sys$manager:utc_time_setup.com?3 Message-ID: <BJFq8.1812$fL6.37008@news.cpqcorp.net>A  / I am researching the situation described below.n  C Bradford -- if you don't hear from me within about 2 weeks, please rC contact me and remind me.  If you need something sooner, please useq you formal support mechanism.   N I do not think this will cause any problems other than possible none-operationN of automatice daylight time switching.  (I assume you do NOT have applciations using these logical names.)_  d In article <NYnq8.18$M3.47@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: >Hello All,r >r >I used sys$manager:utc$time_setup.com to set up time zone & tdf information for this coming weekend on my Alpha 7.3 box.  AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to "1".  This is what the information looked like before I rebooted my box:  >i7 >RABBIT::SYSTEM  $ @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM SHOWi >g >AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to "1".s@ >OpenVMS will automatically change to/from Daylight Saving Time.- >(in timezones that use Daylight Saving Time)o >u= >    LOCAL TIME ZONE          = EASTERN / US -- STANDARD TIMEt7 >    LOCAL SYSTEM TIME        =  2-APR-2002 14:20:32.47l% >                               (EST)r% >    TIME DIFFERENTIAL FACTOR = -5:00e= >    TIME ZONE RULE           = EST5EDT4,M4.1.0/02,M10.4.0/02  >t. >After I rebooted the box, this is what I see: >e3 >RABBIT::SY18889 $ @sys$manager:utc$time_setup show  >a >AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to "1".z@ >OpenVMS will automatically change to/from Daylight Saving Time.- >(in timezones that use Daylight Saving Time) 2 >The logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not defined2 >The logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME is not defined= >The logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING is not definedt >,= >    LOCAL TIME ZONE          = EASTERN / US -- STANDARD TIMES7 >    LOCAL SYSTEM TIME        =  2-APR-2002 14:32:47.59d" >                               ()% >    TIME DIFFERENTIAL FACTOR = -5:00r >    TIME ZONE RULE           =t >  >Please note that the "TIME ZONE RULE" is blank, and that there is no (EST) indicator ater the "LOCAL SYSTEM TIME".  Note also the warnings about logical namesnot being set.s >t >How do I preserve this information across system reboots?  Is this expected behavior?  The FAQ contains hints, but nothing definite regaring the logicals.  >  >Thanks, >Bradford J. Hamilton ' >MAPSbradhamilton@MAPSattbi.com		(home)p' >sy18889MAPS@rabbit.MAPSfmr.com		(work)I >Y< >"All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's" >"Lose the MAPS" >g   -- nK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAsH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 08:54:21 GMTp From: jmfbahciv@aol.como2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it+ Message-ID: <a8eo9p$qmq$1@bob.news.rcn.net>    In article SE <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204021331250.22397-100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>,-/    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:2! >On 2 Apr 2002, Alan Greig wrote:RF >> Helpfully Gordon Bell has made available DEC's suicide note on his 
 Microsoft web 
 >> site atJ >> http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/VAX%20Strategy%20c1979.pdf >H( >Funniest comment in the whole document: >S7 >"VMS and TOPS 20 have roughly the same functionality."e >o2 >VMS never did match the functionality of TOPS-20.  A Bell never understood the importance of software.  He spent a lote: of time getting rid of the upper level management who did.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:47:10 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <6AFq8.1810$fL6.36945@news.cpqcorp.net>a   zczc  G Arrrrrgh!!!n   Whoever (Alan) the h*ll keeps writing these d*mned troll- messages...$    ! PLEASE STOP IT!  PLEASE STOP NOW!n    K Do we HAVE to keep getting into these idiotic rehashing of hurt feelings oftH TOPS-20 users from 20 years ago?  Now we'll have 300 replies complaining% about the lack of command completion.s  K The original message in this topic was STUPID enough.  What exactly was theu need to spam alt.sys.pdp10?i  6 STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP   nnnn    ! Mark Crispin wrote in message ...r! >On 2 Apr 2002, Alan Greig wrote: E >> Helpfully Gordon Bell has made available DEC's suicide note on his-
 Microsoft web-
 >> site atJ >> http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/VAX%20Strategy%20c1979.pdf >r( >Funniest comment in the whole document: > 7 >"VMS and TOPS 20 have roughly the same functionality.". >02 >VMS never did match the functionality of TOPS-20. >< >-- Mark --p >e  >http://staff.washington.edu/mrcG >Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.h >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:10:13 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itA Message-ID: <FPFq8.15291$TG6.2176636@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:6AFq8.1810$fL6.36945@news.cpqcorp.net...d > zczc >HI > Arrrrrgh!!!n   Whoever (Alan) the h*ll keeps writing these d*mned troll2
 > messages...  >r >H# > PLEASE STOP IT!  PLEASE STOP NOW!e >i >uJ > Do we HAVE to keep getting into these idiotic rehashing of hurt feelings of" > TOPS-20 users from 20 years ago?  G Not if people want to keep their eyes tightly shut while similar things L happen again, I suppose.  You seem doggedly determined to let history repeatK itself by ignoring both past precedent and present evidence, but others mayu be more willing to learn.b  (   Now we'll have 300 replies complaining' > about the lack of command completion.a > I > The original message in this topic was STUPID enough.  What exactly wasl then > need to spam alt.sys.pdp10?   @ SPAM is in the eyes of the beholder.  If you're not a devotee ofL alt.sys.pdp10, it's not clear you have any basis for complaint about someone/ who is such a participant having included them.i   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:28:45 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <7bGq8.1813$fL6.36956@news.cpqcorp.net>t  H Come on.  The original mail was blatent BS ("DEC's suicide note" - get a; life and stop re-writing history) designed purely to create ) yet-another-one-of-these-useless-threads.t  F Not a single one of these inane dissertations that were spammed acrossH groups that included alt.sys.pdp10 had any other objective than to wasteK peoples time, and continue some 20 year old argument that isn't really evenVG interesting anymore, no matter how many peoples feelings were hurt thatu! there pet architecture was tubed.l  D But let me assume that there was an intent to illuminate or teach usI something... To address the stupidity in the base note - if killing AlphatL leads to the same results that killing the DECsystem-20 did -- then lets allK cheer.  Technical rants and lost souls aside - the VAX/VMS era was the most 4 successful time in the history of Digital Equipment.    & Now to add this thread to my killfile.       Bill Todd wrote in message ... >rA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messagee. >news:6AFq8.1810$fL6.36945@news.cpqcorp.net... >> zczc  >>J >> Arrrrrgh!!!n   Whoever (Alan) the h*ll keeps writing these d*mned troll >> messages... >> >>$ >> PLEASE STOP IT!  PLEASE STOP NOW! >> >>K >> Do we HAVE to keep getting into these idiotic rehashing of hurt feelingse >ofs# >> TOPS-20 users from 20 years ago?t >yH >Not if people want to keep their eyes tightly shut while similar thingsF >happen again, I suppose.  You seem doggedly determined to let history repeatL >itself by ignoring both past precedent and present evidence, but others may >be more willing to learn. > ) >  Now we'll have 300 replies complaining ( >> about the lack of command completion. >>J >> The original message in this topic was STUPID enough.  What exactly was >the >> need to spam alt.sys.pdp10? >vA >SPAM is in the eyes of the beholder.  If you're not a devotee ofiE >alt.sys.pdp10, it's not clear you have any basis for complaint abouta someone 0 >who is such a participant having included them. >n >- billt >  >  >h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:27:33 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>t2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itP Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204030907110.15990-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>  ) I wonder why Fred Kleinsorge is so upset.   A Perhaps it's because he has to dust off his resume, what with his"C impending job loss once HP abolishes the last pathethic remnants of E Digital.  He's now discovering that nobody wants to hire anyone a VMSf
 developer.  D It's interesting how he labels a period in which customers abandonedG Digital en masse as "the most successful time in the history of Digital  Equipment."-  J Successful time?  I can't think of a more egregious failure.  Digital wentI from being the #2 computer company to extinction.  Digital totally missed D the personal computer revolution, and its feeble attempts to have PC' products were the joke of the industry.m  E Digital's terminal status was already obvious in 1988, a mere 5 years  after the 10/20 was canned.p  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcWF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:16:24 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itB Message-ID: <INGq8.101367$VJ1.8367111@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:7bGq8.1813$fL6.36956@news.cpqcorp.net...aJ > Come on.  The original mail was blatent BS ("DEC's suicide note" - get a= > life and stop re-writing history) designed purely to createP+ > yet-another-one-of-these-useless-threads.f  L I'm not sure what 'original mail' you're referring to:  the original post onE the topic in the subject line was mine, and said nothing about "DEC'sr" suicide note" or anything like it.   ...-  F > But let me assume that there was an intent to illuminate or teach usK > something... To address the stupidity in the base note - if killing Alpha(J > leads to the same results that killing the DECsystem-20 did -- then lets alliH > cheer.  Technical rants and lost souls aside - the VAX/VMS era was the most6 > successful time in the history of Digital Equipment.  L You're comparing apples and oranges.  The VAX/VMS era started in 1978, whileL the 36-bit line was declared dying in 1983 IIRC.  And as I was there for theJ period 1976 - 1987, I can assure you that DEC's decline *did* begin aroundL the latter date (reasonable arguments could place it a bit earlier or later,F but not much), even though DEC's financial decline lagged the internal, upper-level management rot by several years.   >t >l( > Now to add this thread to my killfile.  & Which will likely improve its quality.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:29:48 +0200u. From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de> Subject: RAM for MicroVAX 3300, Message-ID: <3CAB4A1C.12566839@pcde.inka.de>   Hi,m  7 Can RAM from a VAX 4000-200 be used in a MicroVAX 3300?s5 I could get the parts from a 4000/200, but I was told + that the DSSI module on the CPU was broken.e9 There would be no problem, if the 4000/200 still netboots : without DSSI, but if it's dead I would like to put the RAM
 in a 3300.   TIAn Dennis   -- 34 Canada is our most important neighbour to the north.   George W. Bush   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 09:14:30 -0800n1 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)lC Subject: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacksa= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204030914.7143730f@posting.google.com>o  D Some here have contended that because TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS isF based on Tru64 Unix code, it is thus subject to the same level of risk9 of buffer-overflow exploits as any Unix system out there.   ? After a bit of investigation, I've discovered that VMS on Alpha D appears to be immune to these common smash-the-stack buffer overflow attacks.  7 To understand why, first one must understand how commoniB buffer-overflow attacks work.  (A classic paper on such attacks isD "Smashing the Stack for Fun And Profit" written by a hacker who goes* by the name Aleph One.  You can read it atD http://www.cse.ogi.edu/DISC/projects/immunix/StackGuard/profit.html)  @ A buffer-overflow exploit is done by passing an argument that isC larger than the buffer size to code which fails to check its size. uC The data is all stored, resulting in overwriting some memory beyond9D the end of the buffer.  Hackers know that C compilers often allocate> data space for buffers on the stack, and part of the data area@ overwritten on the stack includes the return address in the callA frame.  The hacker writes a return address that points to his ownnC code, which is also included in the area overwritten on the stack. e? The function then returns to his code instead of to the callingoC routine.  His malicious code then takes some dastardly action, likeg; starting the Unix shell and executing an arbitrary command.1  D For a buffer-overflow exploit to succeed, then, the hacker must know? the address size of the the target architecture (for the returnkD address), the format of the stack frame used by the architecture and< the compiler (to know where to put that return address), theF instruction set of the target architecture (so he can create his smallF program), and enough about the innards of the operating system for his? program to be able to do something useful once it is executing.a  E Attacks most commonly target Windows, or Solaris or other common UnixnC variants, and because the attack must be so specific to a platform, F these wouldn't affect VMS, because it has a different instruction set,F stack frame format, and so forth.  While that dramatically reduces theC statistical probability of an attack succeeding on VMS in practice,dA that alone doesn't rule out the possibility of an attack tailorede specifically for VMS on Alpha.  F Here is where excellent and fortuitous engineering design comes to theD rescue.  The Alpha memory management architecture provides some bitsD in the Page Table Entries (PTEs) that control what type of access isE allowed to memory.  For example, a read-only page can be protected bycD having the Fault-On-Write bit set, and any attempt to write the pageE causes a fault and results in a memory access violation error.  Alpha F also has a Fault-On-Execute bit, designed to prevent an errant program= from jumping off into the weeds and trying to execute data as D instructions.  On Alpha/VMS, the user stack is mapped with PTEs thatE have the Fault-On-Execute bit set, so any attempt to branch into data A area on the stack results in an access violation, and the process1 dies.   ? So Alpha VMS is immune to common stack-smashing buffer-overflow  attacks.  D While any code that fails to check data lengths against buffer sizesD is arguably broken, and needs to be fixed, and Compaq has been doingE this to TCP/IP code as buffer-overflow bugs are identified, such bugsm@ are much less critical on Alpha VMS compared with less-protected implementations.. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 05:56:57 -0600h- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!l3 Message-ID: <PFFuAy7he3eU@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  c In article <uakq55msc44t57@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: 
 > In stock > % > DS10L New with 1 Yr Island Warranty  > 512MB Island Memory- > High Speed CDROM and Floppy2 > Dual 10/100 Ethernet
 > Dual IDE > Dual Serial Port > + > $1899 per system  (ship weight is 30Lb's)v > I > Or the same as above with 9GB SCSI Ultra 2 + Ctr and VMS Keyboard $2499c  C Things have gotten considerably better than when I used to complaindG about irrelevant PC-related hardware pitches here from Island Software. = What have things come to when the only basis for complaint iso
 grammar...  ) > Biggy the memory for an additional $500c   ...or lack thereof :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:45:31 +0800- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>o% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!M( Message-ID: <02040320453100.05497@bwian>  1 On Wed,  3 Apr 2002 19:56, Larry Kilgallen wrote:rF > In article <uakq55msc44t57@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)"  <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:  > > In stock > >A' > > DS10L New with 1 Yr Island Warrantya > > 512MB Island Memoryl > > High Speed CDROM and Floppyi > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > > Dual IDE > > Dual Serial Port > >T- > > $1899 per system  (ship weight is 30Lb's)o > >aK > > Or the same as above with 9GB SCSI Ultra 2 + Ctr and VMS Keyboard $2499v > E > Things have gotten considerably better than when I used to complainMI > about irrelevant PC-related hardware pitches here from Island Software. ? > What have things come to when the only basis for complaint is  > grammar... >L+ > > Biggy the memory for an additional $500  >  > ...or lack thereof :-)  2 Do you mean that should be "upsize the memory" :-) Would you like fries with that?T   Regards, Dave.  -- "I David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comtI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/LI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmlI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" LennonM   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 14:46:46 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) % Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!R+ Message-ID: <a8f4km$3q6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   3 In article <PFFuAy7he3eU@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i0  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:f |> In article <uakq55msc44t57@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:
 |> > In stockm |> > c( |> > DS10L New with 1 Yr Island Warranty |> > 512MB Island Memory  |> > High Speed CDROM and Floppy |> > Dual 10/100 Ethernetk
 |> > Dual IDE. |> > Dual Serial Portm |> > A. |> > $1899 per system  (ship weight is 30Lb's) |> > (L |> > Or the same as above with 9GB SCSI Ultra 2 + Ctr and VMS Keyboard $2499 |> eF |> Things have gotten considerably better than when I used to complainJ |> about irrelevant PC-related hardware pitches here from Island Software.@ |> What have things come to when the only basis for complaint is
 |> grammar...l |> e, |> > Biggy the memory for an additional $500  = Sounds like "market speal" to me, you know, like "supersize".u: At least they didn't ask if you want fries with that.  :-)   |> 9 |> ...or lack thereof :-)   < The grammer of business is unlike any language in the world.   bill   -- .J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   /   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:20:13 GMT ' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>m6 Subject: Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON$ Message-ID: <3caaad28$1@zfree.co.nz>   Didier,m  E it worked that way in TCPIP V5.0 and UCX V4.2 (both for the VAX) too.lC Agreed, the configueration script should issue a warning about this-
 behaviour.@ So probably the routing software reads the configuration details9 at process initiation and should therefore be restarted ?   @ And no clue why Bob should be my uncle, he should concentrate onB driving sober. There is a campaign that started in Belgium and wasD recently introduced in the Netherlands to stop drinking and driving.; The person appointed driver is called Bob in that campaign.g   Hans  . Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:L >I sadly discovered that TCPIP V5.1 (before, I do not know) does not accept, via P >the TCPIP$CONFIG menu, that a new default route be declared when it is running.C >There is no warning, no nothing, but the new route is not updated.  >PJ >I had to stop TCPIP, update the default route, then restart it to make it work.  >rJ >I think that a test should be added in the tcpip$config procedure to warn	 the user.  >cH >I know that I should use the "normal" SPR way to submit this to COMPAQ, but~K >after tenth of inquiries, I still do not know how to do it electronically.d >m* >I read the FAQ. MGMT28 should be updated. >m& >Bob is not my uncle, this morning :-(- >(btw, where does this expression come from?)k >p >D.  >-- I >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------iI >MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.html,I >Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670jI >19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 64186 >7I >Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseoI >On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken        http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:00:54 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON0 Message-ID: <3CAB18E8.BBE80B0E@blueyonder.co.uk>   Hans Vlems wrote:o > 	 > Didier,p > G > it worked that way in TCPIP V5.0 and UCX V4.2 (both for the VAX) too. E > Agreed, the configueration script should issue a warning about this  > behaviour.B > So probably the routing software reads the configuration details; > at process initiation and should therefore be restarted ?o > B > And no clue why Bob should be my uncle, he should concentrate onD > driving sober. There is a campaign that started in Belgium and wasF > recently introduced in the Netherlands to stop drinking and driving.= > The person appointed driver is called Bob in that campaign.t >   $ ??? I thought Bob was a builder :-).  > I sincerely hope most of you are mystified by this as it means' Bob The Builder hasn't escaped the UK !F      -- r tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk o  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:13:11 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> 6 Subject: Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON1 Message-ID: <3CAB1C07.3B1E4D8D@BlueBubble.UK.Com>o   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Hans Vlems wrote:e > >o > > Didier,a > >lI > > it worked that way in TCPIP V5.0 and UCX V4.2 (both for the VAX) too. G > > Agreed, the configueration script should issue a warning about thisn > > behaviour.D > > So probably the routing software reads the configuration details= > > at process initiation and should therefore be restarted ?i > >oD > > And no clue why Bob should be my uncle, he should concentrate onF > > driving sober. There is a campaign that started in Belgium and wasH > > recently introduced in the Netherlands to stop drinking and driving.? > > The person appointed driver is called Bob in that campaign.i > >q >m& > ??? I thought Bob was a builder :-). >f@ > I sincerely hope most of you are mystified by this as it means) > Bob The Builder hasn't escaped the UK !s  9 Yeah, but as to the original problem wrt Bob the Builder:    Can He Fix It ?!     :-)e  	 Roy Omondh Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:24:47 GMTO4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON0 Message-ID: <3CAB1E81.83535383@blueyonder.co.uk>   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote:B > > I sincerely hope most of you are mystified by this as it means+ > > Bob The Builder hasn't escaped the UK !p > ; > Yeah, but as to the original problem wrt Bob the Builder:i >  > Can He Fix It ?w >   ; No, but he can bodge it, going by the sorry state of thingsc in this country at present.a   :-)g    F Sorry if you see the post I just canceled with a spell checker induced spelling error.v   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk I  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:26:11 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: TCPIP: no new default route when IP is ON= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204031026.1be96255@posting.google.com>   \ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3CAA9E98.22CE2CC9@Free.fr>...Q > I sadly discovered that TCPIP V5.1 (before, I do not know) does not accept, via Q > the TCPIP$CONFIG menu, that a new default route be declared when it is running. D > There is no warning, no nothing, but the new route is not updated. > Q > I had to stop TCPIP, update the default route, then restart it to make it work.g > U > I think that a test should be added in the tcpip$config procedure to warn the user.f > M > I know that I should use the "normal" SPR way to submit this to COMPAQ, but L > after tenth of inquiries, I still do not know how to do it electronically. > + > I read the FAQ. MGMT28 should be updated.s > ' > Bob is not my uncle, this morning :-(m. > (btw, where does this expression come from?) >  > D.  F w/tcpware, you supply the both the default and failover gateway at theG same time, and if one goes down, the other automatically kicks in until/# the default comes back up again ...t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 08:53:28 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>mN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64+ Message-ID: <3CAB3388.D9917294@caltech.edu>7   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:oM > I have some 1998 numbers ratholed away someplace. IIRC NT went out on 15-25G= > percent of Alpha boxes, most of which were low-end systems.l > G > The decision to scuttle was influenced by the fact that AlphaNT salesgL > declined from ~15 percent of Alpha sales just prior to the CPQ acquisition( > to less than 2 percent 7 months later.  K The amazing part is that they sold any in the first place since AlphaNT hadiL no native desktop "productivity" applications and running the x86 ones under FX!86uG resulted in an expensive box staggering uncertainly along slower than aeP cheaper PC.  The sales they did make were probably for servers (file serving wasI mostly what NT was used for at that time).  But file serving is typicallyh
 network orK disk I/O limited so there was little or no performance advantage of AlphaNTt over regular NT.  E The fate of AlphaNT (and Digital too) was pretty much sealed from theME moment a certain Digital exec botched the negotiations with Microsoft3D and agreed to a deal where Digital paid for the NT port and receivedI no native applications in return.  But we can't lay all the blame on thateD exec since other people at Digital should have, but did not, correct@ his stupidity.  That episode has certain similarities to Curly'sA handing over  all of Compaq's remaining CPU technologies to IntelkD in exchange for an as yet undisclosed "consideration".  (Maybe IntelF promised him a great deal on CMGI stock?  Or was it a handful of magic beans?)G     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2002 01:12:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64- Message-ID: <87g02cso3r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:o  E > As to DII-COE - it's just a piece of paper, and would be subject to0F > some negotiation to make it go away. All they'd really have to do isE > say, 'We'll port the code for you at no charge". They'll have a big F > services organization that's partially sitting on its thumbs throughA > the current corporate spending slowdown to put to work. Problemt	 > solved.s  C I doubt it. Once DOD lets one vendor pull a stunt like that, it all F turns to ashes. What they do for one, they must allow another ot do as6 well. And we all now who will take maximium advantage.   -- b< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2002 01:15:49 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64- Message-ID: <87bsd0sny2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:t  C > The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do itiC > first is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMSfB > that are sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle3 > Corp. Sybase has killed their ASE product on VMS.a   > DB2 doesn't run on VMS.c  " Any more. It used to, as did CICS.  # > Informix doesn't. Ingres doesn't.e  - I thought there was a VMS version of Ingress.n   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:51:15 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>hN Subject: RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CED06@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Paul,a  4 >>> I thought there was a VMS version of Ingress. <<   From an earlier post from me:u  1 Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb)g< http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=3D915 CA IngresH http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -F potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain high! availability features of OpenVMS)lE http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htmi Mimer/OpenVMS GuideoC http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.html Cache on OpenVMSlC benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their plans to supporte OpenVMS on Itanium as well)c   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.n Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----6 From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]=20 Sent: April 3, 2002 12:16 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeH Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64o    % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:f  F > The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it=20H > first is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that  F > are sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp.=20- > Sybase has killed their ASE product on VMS.o   > DB2 doesn't run on VMS.n  " Any more. It used to, as did CICS.  # > Informix doesn't. Ingres doesn't.e  - I thought there was a VMS version of Ingress.    --=20n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. E                                              West Australia 6076 Raw,mG Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the|( future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:50:17 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>cN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-648 Message-ID: <d65mau8a5edh4otlsu1gh8iucu08luqogk@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 04:11:31 GMT, Tim Llewellyn ' <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:s    T >Maybe they did that because there just weren't the native applications on Alpha-NT, >not even MS Office.  A But an increasing number of heavy duty workstation type apps were E available and NT was a very suitable platform for us for that use. As9D I've posted before DEC encouraged vendors to drop Alpha VMS ports inE favour of Alpha/NT then killed Alpha/NT!! Some vendors (including EDStB with Unigraphics) then dropped all Alpha ports including the Tru646 one. What the f*ck did DEC/Compaq think would happen??  ? 14 years ago I managed a small VMS Unigraphics cluster. With my E current employer we have 40 Unigraphics seats just at this particularbC location. All currently HP funnily enough. That could all have been0A VMS had it not been for the same DEC stupidity that then infectedl" Compaq and will likely now kill HP   >nR >Oh dear, I contributed to this thread again. How many times have these arguements >been thrashed out here?  @ They'll never stop unless the underlying wrong-headed DEC/Compaq) reasoning which drives them is corrected.t     >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:42:26 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>IN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-648 Message-ID: <tv4mau0n3lq0nnjv5572fksls7famgo0sq@4ax.com>  4 On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:35:45 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >sF >The decision to scuttle was influenced by the fact that AlphaNT salesK >declined from ~15 percent of Alpha sales just prior to the CPQ acquisitioni' >to less than 2 percent 7 months later.w  < And no wonder. EDS informed us a couple of months before theC termination of Alpha/NT that they were dropping Unigraphics supporteF for Alpha/NT because Compaq were about to kill it. Compaq told us that@ was untrue then killed it a month or so later. I wonder how manyC others knew the truth and held off purchasing thus providing Compaq  with the excuse they needed.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:07:37 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>RN Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-648 Message-ID: <9d6mau0ji63aclkeffbhb5jl1idjpgnrea@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:55:57 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   >q >tG >I have a favor to ask - post the personal e-mail addresses of Capella,wI >Winckler, et al in this forum and we'll all flood their inboxes with our K >complaints. Why? Because there aren't enough good guys like you calling onm  & Michael.Capellas@compaq.spamremove.com4 Michael.Winkler@compaq.spamremove.com (might just be# mike.winkler@compaq.spamremove.com)a  D Surprisingly both read and sometimes even respond to personal email.@ I've had responses from both in the past. However it is probably9 Carly's address you need right now and I don't know that.t   dlE >theirs don't listen to them, give us the contact info and we'll telloK >Capellas to his face. If he doesn't like what his customers are saying, hee  B A number of us have tried this before. Indeed Kerry was actually aE Compaq member of the group. He just  ignored us and passed us on down  to Marcelloi  B >can fix it, or quit and give the job to somebody who will fix it. >i >k >a7 >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message M >news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net.y >..a >John, > H >>>> It's almost like trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS0 >when you say you want a reliable web server.<<< >< >Hey, that's easy. >u< >CSWS, OSU or WASD .. And perhaps even Purveyor (right Bob?) > E >CSWS offers Galaxy shared memory support and file system support for0H >saving state information, apache$specifc and apache$common cluster file >access etc. >rE >Put a rack of DS10's in place and change 1 file in apache$common andeF >they automatically all take advantage of this as it is the same file.D >For server specific files, put the file in apache$specific. Put twoH >racks in place for multi-site load balancing (one at each site) against> >a multi-site, load balanced active-active clustered database. >v >Surely you knew this - right? >s	 >Regards,  >t >Kerry Maing >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036o >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com  >e >P >-----Original Message-----f) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]  >Sent: April 1, 2002 3:35 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha tot >IA-64 >  > G >Maybe if you go crawling on hands and knees to CA will they sell you aeF >license for the latest version of Ingres on OpenVMS. It's almost likeI >trying to get somebody from Compaq to sell you VMS when you say you want  >a reliable web server.c >n >l >d >m >I7 >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in message I >news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.  >net.  >. >John, >-? >Your info on database support on OpenVMS is a tad out of date.i >M2 >Reference: (In addition to Oracle Server and Rdb); >http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?id=915 CA IngresiI >http://www.mimer.com/news/engnews_mar02_2.htm Mimer (see press release -,G >potential migration option for Sybase users that want to maintain highr" >availability features of OpenVMS)F >http://developer.mimer.se/documentation/Mimer_SQL_OpenVMS/MIM_VMS.htmG >Mimer/OpenVMS Guide http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.html D >Cache on OpenVMS benchmark (Intersystems also stated publicly their- >plans to support OpenVMS on Itanium as well)n >d	 >Regards,e >e >P >Kerry Maing >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036C >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com  >  >) >-----Original Message-----e) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]t >Sent: April 1, 2002 12:47 PMl >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to  >IA-64 >o >  > ; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message ' >news:3CA8939D.CDFE4ECA@videotron.ca...t >>@ >> It makes sense if one is out to consolidate product lines andA >> eliminate product overlaps. VMS overlaps both tandem and unix.c >>F >> It makes sense if one is told that it would be possible to retain aD >> good portion of the VMS customers by proceeding in a certain way. >>E >> Carly has made a lot of promises. The minute she realises that the. >integrationF >> isn't going smoothly, she will start to play musical chairs, layoff >additional-I >> staff and cut additional products to rationalise the company and focusy >o >> onB >its >> core incompetancies.P > H >The one other thing that will kill VMS if Compaq/HP doesn't do it firstE >is that now there is are only two commercially viable RDBMS that are I >sold to run on VMS, Rdb and Oracle, both sold by Oracle Corp. Sybase has B >killed their ASE product on VMS. DB2 doesn't run on VMS. InformixG >doesn't. Ingres doesn't. Not that every use of VMS is RDBMS dependent,e >but a huge number are.d >iE >So now a huge part of the VMS lifeboat is controlled by a 3rd party.oI >Without Alpha, Oracle doesn't post such great performance numbers. IA-64 A >etc...just makes Compaq/HP OpenVMS on IA-64 just another average I >performer that doesn't appreciably add to sales of Oracle products. Once H >Oracle figures out that there's no money to be made on VMS, they'll EOLH >the products and that'll be that for VMS. No new sales of db servers toG >new customers = no reason to continue to develop for VMS. No Oracle orU >Rdb = no VMS. >sE >You'd be smoking and inhaling if you thought that Sybase, IBM, or CA G >would create a VMS port if VMS ever went production on IA-64/McKinley.  >eG >Betcha Larry makes all concerned - Compaq, HP, and VMS customers, bendyC >over and spread 'em even more, to take advantage of the situation.  >s >- >  >A >8   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 09:17:35 -0800  From: surd615@excite.com (Surd)m  Subject: UCX Routing Table grows= Message-ID: <5fce3657.0204030917.2d4a8c95@posting.google.com>   A Why does the routing table in UCX contain entries that should be  A covered by the default route? This table expands to hundreds and nA hundreds of entries over days and eventually crashes the system.    / We are running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha ES40. g  Q This is an example of the routing table only 15 minutes after starting up TCPIP.     TCPIP> sh route    DYNAMIC    Type Destination Gateway -   DN 0.0.0.0 10.200.78.1 0 AN 10.200.78.0/24 10.200.78.25 t DN 10.200.78.0/24 10.200.78.26 c AN 12.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20  DN 24.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20  DN 63.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20  AN 65.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20  DN 66.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20  AN 67.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20  DH 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 . AN 139.76.0.0/16 10.200.78.20  DN 141.156.0.0/16 10.200.78.20 d AN 162.83.0.0/16 10.200.78.20  AN 168.191.0.0/16 10.200.78.20   DN 172.137.0.0/16 10.200.78.20 i! AN 192.197.166.0/24 10.200.78.20 h! DN 193.124.133.0/24 10.200.78.20 e  AN 194.135.30.0/24 10.200.78.20   DN 198.17.217.0/24 10.200.78.20  AN 200.31.7.0/24 10.200.78.20   DN 200.45.103.0/24 10.200.78.20  DN 207.30.12.0/24 10.200.78.20 w! AN 207.175.234.0/24 10.200.78.20    DN 209.94.220.0/24 10.200.78.20 ! AN 209.198.223.0/24 10.200.78.20 e! DN 209.236.202.0/24 10.200.78.20 t  AN 216.82.116.0/24 10.200.78.20 ! DN 216.199.151.0/24 10.200.78.20 l TCPIP> t   Thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:44:14 -0500c5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>t$ Subject: Re: UCX Routing Table grows2 Message-ID: <pkyrPOL1US3WIc75p55bGZS4eJ69@4ax.com>  = How do you have routing setup?  Please reply with the results-* from TCPIP SHOW ROUTE /PERM and TCPIP SHOW CONFIG START ROUTING.0   David R. Beattyh  > On 3 Apr 2002 09:17:35 -0800, surd615@excite.com (Surd) wrote:  B >Why does the routing table in UCX contain entries that should be B >covered by the default route? This table expands to hundreds and B >hundreds of entries over days and eventually crashes the system.  >A0 >We are running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha ES40.  > R >This is an example of the routing table only 15 minutes after starting up TCPIP.  >o >TCPIP> sh route p >s	 >DYNAMIC r >  >Type Destination Gateway  >s >DN 0.0.0.0 10.200.78.1   >AN 10.200.78.0/24 10.200.78.25   >DN 10.200.78.0/24 10.200.78.26  >AN 12.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20 e >DN 24.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20 n >DN 63.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20 r >AN 65.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20 i >DN 66.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20 l >AN 67.0.0.0/ 8 10.200.78.20   >DH 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1  >AN 139.76.0.0/16 10.200.78.20 r  >DN 141.156.0.0/16 10.200.78.20  >AN 162.83.0.0/16 10.200.78.20 i  >AN 168.191.0.0/16 10.200.78.20   >DN 172.137.0.0/16 10.200.78.20 " >AN 192.197.166.0/24 10.200.78.20 " >DN 193.124.133.0/24 10.200.78.20 ! >AN 194.135.30.0/24 10.200.78.20 y! >DN 198.17.217.0/24 10.200.78.20 r >AN 200.31.7.0/24 10.200.78.20 o! >DN 200.45.103.0/24 10.200.78.20 d  >DN 207.30.12.0/24 10.200.78.20 " >AN 207.175.234.0/24 10.200.78.20 ! >DN 209.94.220.0/24 10.200.78.20 '" >AN 209.198.223.0/24 10.200.78.20 " >DN 209.236.202.0/24 10.200.78.20 ! >AN 216.82.116.0/24 10.200.78.20 p" >DN 216.199.151.0/24 10.200.78.20  >TCPIP>  >C >Thanks.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 10:51:30 -0800e( From: BHALPERN@UMCAZ.EDU (BRITT HALPERN): Subject: VMS boottime - how to calculate # of days running= Message-ID: <dbcb2b6e.0204031051.6bd0aa1b@posting.google.com>a  A I am wondering if there is a quick way to determine the number ofaF days/time since VMS was last booted.  I know I can get the boottime byD using f$getsyi("boottime").  Not being a VMS guru, is there a way to@ subtract the current date/time from the boottime and display theC number of days VMS has been running.  This would eventually be in a ; daily report file.  If you can point me in the direction ofn* documentation, that would also be helpful.   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:49:08 -0500e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), Subject: Re: vms hobbyist licenseing problemK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0304020749080001@1cust113.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   = In article <b6bf97d5.0204022147.78a353fd@posting.google.com>,t. merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) wrote:   >Hi  > G >I seem to be having some problems getting my layered products licensed E >up. I recently download this years layeded prod DCL licese script as C >well as the vax-vms license ran them "lic load *" them "lic ena *" G >them but I still can't telnet to or set host to the server in questionP( >any ideas on what I am forgetting to do  O Are you sure the licenses actually loaded?  Maybe you made a typo or something.1  I The DCL command SHOW LICENSE shows which licenses are actually loaded andD available on a node.  E Is this a cluster?  In a cluster, you'll need to use a common licensesH database for all nodes, or you'll have to put some of the PAKs into eachE database.  Otherwise some of the counting doesn't work right, and youoH don't have enough units for every node -- for some types of licenses.  I, recommend a single, common license database.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:02:56 +0100nB From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansM& Message-ID: <3CAB27B0.4000901@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > Dirk,  > H > Yep, I agree that it would be nice to have the mid tier Oracle Apps onG > OpenVMS, but you can (and it is certified and supported by Oracle) tooJ > use NT/UNIX mid tier app servers with a multi-site, load balanced Oracle > OPS back end on OpenVMS. l >     ? This is technically true though other apps vendors do not allow-> platform mixing. However given a choice of a single vendor for= DBMS and apps or two most customers will go for the former if-	 possible.-  < Apart from anything else one platform reduces the TCO but it7 also gives the customer one throat to choke. I know youe9 would contend that Compaq can do this with NT and OpenVMSe6 but in practice if you introduce NT then you introduce< another party over which you have no control MS. I have also> detected little or no discernable connection between different; Compaq divisions in projects I have worked on, the PC folksm8 seem to be ploughing an entirely different furrow to the5 Tru64/OpenVMS folks. I would have to conclude from myM6 experiences that the one vendor for everything is best! realised on a marketing brochure.p  = We are seing this with Seibel 7 which runs on NT, Solaris andt? AIX with a DBMS on almost any platform you want to choose. MostnB big Seibel deployments I have seen are going with a single vendor.= In two big CRM projects I have worked on recently HP lost outoC partly because they had to offer a mixed environment, HP-UX and NT.o  = In one case and not very seriously the customer being adverseo? to NT suggested that HP bid with Sun or IBM, HP not suprisingly91 declined and went with a HP-UX NT based solution."    C > If one wanted an environment whereby the mid tier apps were fully F > protected and load balanced in a similar active-active manner as theF > back end database (mid tier with NT/UNIX is active-passive fail overF > only), you could also implement BEA / IONA middleware App Servers on2 > OpenVMS with Oracle / OpenVMS back end database. >     A You don't need to do this for a lot of apps, Seibel 7 for example : uses Resonate to acheive this, SAP has its own app cluster
 mechanism.    E > Obviously both approaches will depend on what you currently have in . > place and how much availability you require. >     @ In a typical N tier application deployment 70% of the processing; capacity is in the apps server tier and 30% at the DBMS. Sos7 OpenVMS will end up getting a small part of the pie, in ? addition you are also the most vunerable layer, the apps cannoti; run on OpenVMS but the DBMS that you are hoping to host can9 run on any platform.   Regards  Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:16:09 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansh& Message-ID: <3CAB2AC9.8060400@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  ? >>>>Strangely we consider whether the configuration is actuallyv >>>>A > supported more important than whether you can somehow cobble ite > together.<<< > J > The config's I stated in the previous thread are supported by Oracle ie.D > mid tier NT/UNIX app servers with VMS back end Oracle databases or- > BEA/IONA app servers with Oracle back ends.a >     > Its a nice idea sort of but like all OpenVMS ideas from Compaq4 it needs a bit more investment to actually take off.  9 For example, Compaq have published a number of Tru64 DBMS 8 Tru64 apps server benchmarks for the Oracle Applications9 standard benchmark, there are no OpenVMS DBMS, Some othert6 OS as the mid tier benchmark results. You lay yourself: open to questions about the relative abilities performance: wise of Tru64 vs OpenVMS as a DBMS platform without having! any collateral to back your case.i  : There is also a perception that Tru64 has had all the NUMA6 tuning work done for it not all of which has been done? to OpenVMS, now given the squatulant performance of GS160/320'sg> in general with a DBMS you face an uphill struggle to convince: customers to pile risk on risk by going with a OS that may be even worse than Tru64.@  3 On the BEA front you would also need to do the same  thing.  ; Sun for example does joint benchmarking with BEA and Oracleu in the apps server space.f   Regardsp Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 11:21:07 -0600i+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansm3 Message-ID: <hg0qmxcjKztg@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  k In article <3CAB2AC9.8060400@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> writes:n >  >    > < > There is also a perception that Tru64 has had all the NUMA8 > tuning work done for it not all of which has been done > to OpenVMS  ! 	Perception?  By who, you?  Okay.-  ? 	But you are talking out your hat once again and a quick Google  	lands many hits, for example:  2 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/wiz_6984.html  3   "Spinning is also sensitive to non-uniform memorykH   access (NUMA) memory organization, with processes local to the bitlockB   receiving substantially more preferential access to the bitlock.G   (The kernel-mode OpenVMS spinlock primitives were explicitly modifiedr:   to account for this particular characteristic of NUMA.)"   				Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:32:35 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>p) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansl8 Message-ID: <0t7maukqp5ckemkp7ursku29oicje1j8h6@4ax.com>  0 On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:43:23 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:   >eI >Course, many Customers are only now starting to ask themselves "how do ItA >make my App Servers more available from a multi-site perspectivewC >(keeping in mind that an overall solution is only as strong as theeI >weakest link. Big (read huge) holes in most current multi-tier solutionsa
 >I have seen.o >q? >Question - how are your current Oracle Financial or PeopleSoft E >Application Servers protected from a business continuity (datacenteriH >went up in flames last night, but everything else is fine) perspective?  D The answer doesn't matte a toss in relation to VMS when the databaseF vendors and the OS vendor have collaborated to make sure that criticalB parts of Oracle developer apps are no longer available for VMS.  A6 point I first raised with Rich Marcello two years ago.   >AE >>>> Even then you need to convince Oracle, Peoplesoft etc to certifyhA >that the applications will run on VMS and that they will supporto	 >them.<<<a >$G >Huge, huge difference in effort is required to cert a Java applicationDG >on a platform vs. port the native code to that other platform. Typicall. >example is week(s) vs many months of effort.   E Good, then drop the developer apps for Oracle on VMS *after* JAVA haso& fully replaced them. Not years before.  I >Again, I'm not saying mistakes have not been made. However, there is alle  F I'm fed up hearing of 'mistakes' when Compaq actions over the past fewF years seem to have bene calculalated deliberately to slowly wean folks off of VMS.V  D >sorts of change happening in the industry (Java based applications,E >multi-site cluster requirements exponential increases, huge focus onoG >security and ultra-high availability, very few Cust's have any fundingSF >for big bang, redo everything migrations) so one does need to keep anI >eye on all of these happenings if one is to make an intelligent decisionh >for the future. >n	 >Regards,l >s >Kerry MainI >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036  >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.coml >d >m >-----Original Message-----aB >From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk]  >Sent: April 2, 2002 12:06 PMc >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: RE: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans >  >a >In articleaI ><BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E05@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>c0 >, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes: >>David, >>C >>>>> The driver for Tru64 was it being an Oracle tier one port andlE >>Oracle's use of the Tru64 clustering software + applications being b >>available. <<< >>C >>And where did Tru64 cluster sw come from? Hint - a subset of VMS VG >>Clustering. Keep in mind that Oracle 9i RAC new feature is basically kI >>direct IO to a clustered file system - something OpenVMS has had for a r3 >>long time and from which Oracle OPS began on. :-)  >>I >>One also has to look at items like clustered batch systems, user files o >>etc .. >> >sB >True enough but it's been a while since VMS was a tier 1 port for >Oracle. > F >(Ironically on our academic alphas where I provide an Oracle databaseG >for teaching I upgraded to VMS 7.3 expecting that Oracle would put outeE >Oracle 9i on that first - instead I am stuck using Oracle 8i becauseIE >Oracle has still to certify Oracle 9i for VMS 7.3 although they havee >certified it for VMS 7.2-1. >) e >o >aF >>On the applications side, with the growing popularity of Java among G >>ISV's (SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle and list goes on..) and Universities, >I >>the platform choice becomes much less of an issue and one is more free >F >>to choose the OS based on issues like RASS issues and multi-site is " >>becoming a critical requirement. >> >nD >In this instance the driving force to unix is Oracle and peoplesoftF >applications. They have either already or are in the process of beingG >dropped on VMS by Oracle and Peoplesoft. Note: Here I am talking about H >the applications not the backend database (though in the case of SybaseF >which we also ran with our library application on VMS the dropping of$ >the database led to a move to Sun). > > >Java is great for the future - however to get reasonably goodH >performance that is probably the longer future. I've yet to here of anyA >near term plans for Oracle Financials for instance to be totallyeI >rewritten in Java. Even then you need to convince Oracle, Peoplesoft etc D >to certify that the applications will run on VMS and that they will >support them. >eH >Compaq sounded the death Knell for these type of systems when they told8 >the vendors that VMS was just for the database backend. >o >r >  pI >We are now committed to TRU64 for our peoplesoft system having purchased,I >the system. We are probably commited to TRU64 for our Financial system - D >though there has been some soul searching over the future of TRU64. >  >c >o >  >PS. > F >Unless things change radically in three or four years time when we do	 >need to wD >replace these systems I certainly will not be arguing for a move to >HPUX. >h >  >  >David Webbc >VMS and Unix team leader  >CCSSr >Middlesex Universitye >' >e > H >Disclaimer: The opinions represented above are personal opinions and do: >not represent the official views of Middlesex University.   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 09:36:04 -0800e1 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)gY Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise  Class Clt= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204030936.46cdf5aa@posting.google.com>s  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CAA5F4D.E15B2361@videotron.ca>...a@ > How many slow bloated IA64s will you need to match the Sparc ?  E Less than one, it appears.  It's funny, but SPARC was the _only_ RISCiC chip that Intel could brag about beating with Merced.  And McKinley0- looks to be significantly faster than Merced.1. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:43:13 +01002B From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com>Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu & Message-ID: <3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:7   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CA9D9AD.1070104@sun.com>... >  >>Sue Skonetski wrote: >> >>O >>>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/enterprise_tco/enterprise_9
 >>>tco.pdfH >>>Detailed comparison of the Total Cost of Ownership of four RISC-BasedM >>>Cluster Solutions Designed to Provide High Availability.  The four systems0? >>>are Compaq OpenVMS , HP9000, IBM RS/6000 and Sun Enterprise.e >>>,K >>>Please note that this was not done by Compaq, but by Tech Wise Research.h >>>t >>>Warm Regards, >>>i >>>Sue >>>sE >>A GS320 is not equivalent to a Sun F15000, HP SuperDome or IBM P690 J >>it just does not compare, CPU capacity, I/O bandwidth, memory, benchmarkI >>results. For example a  Sun F6800 has better apps performance than the  J >>GS320 as does an IBM P680. By virtually any measure you chose to use theA >>GS320 is a mid range system by anyone elses standards (with the J >>exception of SPECint and SPECfp) which no one uses to measure commercial >>performance).s >> > C > you mean running one alpha chip againset 128 sparc garbage chips?T >  >     > No much worse I mean running 24 SPARC chips against 32 Alpha's guess which were faster ???   ( Or 24 Power processors against 32 Alphas guess which were faster ???.  9 Your definition of garbage appears to be a smaller number05 of CPU's of one type outperforming a larger number of 5 CPU's of another type. By this definition Alpha's fit5  the garbage category nicely :):)     Regards0   Andrew Harrison0   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:26:18 GMT74 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class CluA- Message-ID: <K2Gq8.215143$q2.18995@sccrnsc01>3  G "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote in2( message news:3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com... >. >o > Bob Ceculski wrote:0 >0% > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy2= <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message2" news:<3CA9D9AD.1070104@sun.com>... > >8 > >>Sue Skonetski wrote: > >> > >> > L >>>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/enterprise_tco/enterpri se_C > >>>tco.pdfJ > >>>Detailed comparison of the Total Cost of Ownership of four RISC-BasedG > >>>Cluster Solutions Designed to Provide High Availability.  The foure systemssA > >>>are Compaq OpenVMS , HP9000, IBM RS/6000 and Sun Enterprise.c > >>> C > >>>Please note that this was not done by Compaq, but by Tech Wisea	 Research.c > >>>a > >>>Warm Regards, > >>>n > >>>Sue > >>> G > >>A GS320 is not equivalent to a Sun F15000, HP SuperDome or IBM P690 L > >>it just does not compare, CPU capacity, I/O bandwidth, memory, benchmarkJ > >>results. For example a  Sun F6800 has better apps performance than theL > >>GS320 as does an IBM P680. By virtually any measure you chose to use theC > >>GS320 is a mid range system by anyone elses standards (with the L > >>exception of SPECint and SPECfp) which no one uses to measure commercial > >>performance).b > >> > >sE > > you mean running one alpha chip againset 128 sparc garbage chips?s > >h > >u >t > @ > No much worse I mean running 24 SPARC chips against 32 Alpha's > guess which were faster ???m  H Which Alpha chip? EV68 1001MHz? And which Sparc chip? And what benchmark were the systems run against?I   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:49:49 GMTs' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>"1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...t$ Message-ID: <3caaec56$1@zfree.co.nz>  
 Ah, well put!   ) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:eO >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>n3 wrote in message news:<3CA9DBCE.9080603@sun.com>...e >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >>  - >> > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >> > a >m@ >defcon10 is coming soon matey ... why not take one of your junkA >slowaris boxes and put it up next to vms, give those poor stupids> >defcon hackers a username and password, turn on all services,' >and we will see matey, we will see ...m       http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 14:44:20 GMT21 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)p1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...T+ Message-ID: <a8f4g4$3q6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>B  $ In article <3caaec56$1@zfree.co.nz>,*  "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes: |>   |> Ah, well put! |> e, |> bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:R |> >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 |> wrote in message news:<3CA9DBCE.9080603@sun.com>... |> >> Bob Ceculski wrote:  |> >> 0 |> >> > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: |> >> >  |> >C |> >defcon10 is coming soon matey ... why not take one of your junkmD |> >slowaris boxes and put it up next to vms, give those poor stupidA |> >defcon hackers a username and password, turn on all services,o* |> >and we will see matey, we will see ... |> n |> t |> a |> http://www.zfree.co.nzp |> e  : Afraid I don't see what that URL has to do with the topic.   bill   -- wJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 08:07:11 -0800o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204030807.79983d23@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CAA4ED8.B903D794@videotron.ca>.... > Bob Ceculski wrote:tC > > sorry matey, but your paying thru your nose for your garbage ifoB > > you can call it an ip stack in lost down time and productivity? > > and spending 80% of your time patching your 64 chip garbageiA > > sparc boxes ... all I have to do is pay $1900 for TCPware and- > > "YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS"!  > M > At this juncture in time, I do not believe it healthy to be so defensive of I > VMS. Until we know what HP as in store for VMS, it is best to keep some c > "distance" from your loved on so that *IF* the news are bad, you won't be so terrified/depressed.l > N > VMS isn't your baby anymore. It is Carly's baby. And if Carly choose to have4 > an abortion, there is nothing you can do about it.  I carly can't do squat w/o getting her butt sued off ... there are too manynK defense and government contracts w/support and if they have any brains theyiJ are not going to migrate, even for free, from vms to garbage unix or linux$ or windoze which have "NO" security!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:44:09 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...h3 Message-ID: <xpGq8.1815$fL6.36984@news.cpqcorp.net>a  : Here's a deal JF (do you have a name or just initials?)...  H If Carly confirms the committment to the OpenVMS Itanium port - then youI quietlly go away, or just become a read-only member of the community.  If.L VMS gets "aborted" as you put it (put into maintenance, retired, outsourced,K or the IA64 port cancelled) - I promise to apologize, say that you and BillfH are Gods, and that Andy-Pandy is the smartest guy I never met - and will* never write in this conference ever again.      = JF Mezei wrote in message <3CAA4ED8.B903D794@videotron.ca>...e >Bob Ceculski wrote:B >> sorry matey, but your paying thru your nose for your garbage ifA >> you can call it an ip stack in lost down time and productivityu> >> and spending 80% of your time patching your 64 chip garbage@ >> sparc boxes ... all I have to do is pay $1900 for TCPware and >> "YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS"! >pL >At this juncture in time, I do not believe it healthy to be so defensive ofH >VMS. Until we know what HP as in store for VMS, it is best to keep someJ >"distance" from your loved on so that *IF* the news are bad, you won't be so terrified/depressed.  >BH >VMS isn't your baby anymore. It is Carly's baby. And if Carly choose to have3 >an abortion, there is nothing you can do about it.w   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:48:43 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...t3 Message-ID: <PtGq8.1816$fL6.37037@news.cpqcorp.net>y  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CAA7950.35775270@fsi.net>...t   >tE >It isn't Carly's "baby" until the results of the HP votes are known.d >aI >...and at 20+ years, I believe that would constitute O.S.-cide, not just-G >another spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp exercising hern4 >"right" to attack and destroy a defenseless unborn. >i  K What is with you?  Do you have some personal insight into Carly (and I onlycH call her Carly because I can never remember how to spell her last name)?J Where do you get off calling her (I don't see another subject you could beC talking about) a "spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp".h  I In fact, I don't really get the hostility against HP, let alone it's CEO.u3 What exactly have they done to warrent such hatred?l   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 11:24:39 -0600i+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...y3 Message-ID: <g8BkljRmG06O@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <PtGq8.1816$fL6.37037@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:s > C > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CAA7950.35775270@fsi.net>...i >  >>F >>It isn't Carly's "baby" until the results of the HP votes are known. >>J >>...and at 20+ years, I believe that would constitute O.S.-cide, not justH >>another spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp exercising her5 >>"right" to attack and destroy a defenseless unborn.e >> > M > What is with you?  Do you have some personal insight into Carly (and I onlynJ > call her Carly because I can never remember how to spell her last name)?L > Where do you get off calling her (I don't see another subject you could beE > talking about) a "spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp".l > K > In fact, I don't really get the hostility against HP, let alone it's CEO.i5 > What exactly have they done to warrent such hatred?f >   E 	Ummmmm... because she caused unemployment, drought and world hunger?e< 	Just a guess.  Think I saw that in the Weekly World News or 	some such.l  = 	But seriously, when you see such statements you need to filel3 	them in the dustbin right alongside other bashers.    				Robp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:46:39 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...t, Message-ID: <3CAB3FF4.20FDC812@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > < > Here's a deal JF (do you have a name or just initials?)...  J Jean-Franois. But I have learned that JF is much easier when dealing with& people whose only language is english.  J > If Carly confirms the committment to the OpenVMS Itanium port - then youH > quietlly go away, or just become a read-only member of the community.   J Confirming the port to Itanium does not mean confirming that VMS will be aG "core" product that will have a real place inside of HP and marketed toaI compete against other products.  Since the port is rumoured to be paid byrM Intel, continuing the port may be just keeping some promises made to existinglL customers. It does not mean that HP intends to actively market and grow VMS,K it does not mean that HP will market VMS to compete against Tandem Unix andrC Windows. Marketing VMS against MVS would be a waste of time becausehN Digital/Compaq/HP's lack of serious commitment (expecially after the murder of? Alpha) won't win the types of customers who are (still) on MVS..    J The port to IA64 is not a big issue as far as I am concerned. It is just aL distraction that will slow down VMS development, and force customers to lookM at their future platforms before spending the money to move to a new platformPJ and recertify all their operations etc etc. It will also be an event whichF will result in *less* VMS software being available since many "legacy" software won't be ported.,  M For that reason VMS on IA64 will be far less attractive to existing customersrL if just one of the products they have on Alpha won't make it to IA64 on VMS.  M How long did VAX continue to sell after it was last FABbed ? I think that VMS I *might* do better without the port to IA64 if it means that VMS customers I could count on a 10 year supply of Alpha machines (or as demand warrants)rL which would mean no disturbance of their current installations and continued VMS development.  K Also, a "dead end" VMS on Alpha  probably would have greater freedom to userK its own revenus as it wishes since it would be seen as irrelevant and not aaL serious threath, and such freedom might actually allow VMS to grow more thanL its currently state where marketing isn't allowed. Look at how freely CompaqM now talks about Alpha success since June 25. Since it is no longer a threath,e it can talk about it.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:01:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... , Message-ID: <3CAB4350.CF63CE07@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:B > What is with you?  Do you have some personal insight into Carly   D Even the media calls her "Carly". Her real name is Carleton Fiorina.  K > In fact, I don't really get the hostility against HP, let alone it's CEO.r5 > What exactly have they done to warrent such hatred?i  K Carly has made huge changes with HP which used to be seen as a high qualityyE company. She split off the "high quality part" into Agilent, and keptnM essentially only the PC and Printer stuff, with a sprinkling of unix and MPE.tI The fact that a majority of HP employees are against Carly and her CompaqvQ takeover plan does put credibility into Carly not having such widespread support.r  M Mr Kleinsorge, do you agree that Carly has conspicusouly omitted VMS from allpL her speeches/presentations that dealt with the merger when she had discussedF the future of Tandem, Tru64/HP-UX, and keeping the Compaq proliant and Compaq's channels ?r   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 11:26:26 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...b3 Message-ID: <8Lf3qQ9kEVBh@eisner.encompasserve.org>T  k In article <xpGq8.1815$fL6.36984@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:i< > Here's a deal JF (do you have a name or just initials?)... > J > If Carly confirms the committment to the OpenVMS Itanium port - then youK > quietlly go away, or just become a read-only member of the community.  IfcN > VMS gets "aborted" as you put it (put into maintenance, retired, outsourced,M > or the IA64 port cancelled) - I promise to apologize, say that you and BilleJ > are Gods, and that Andy-Pandy is the smartest guy I never met - and will, > never write in this conference ever again. >  >   E 	Oh please.. you are dreaming.  No way he takes you up on that.  You eG 	went and spoiled everything.  How can you keep a conspiracy theory on pH 	a roll when you go and drive a stake in the ground like that?   Sheesh.   				Rob6   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:28:09 GMTm* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...lB Message-ID: <JYGq8.208814$Gf.19493305@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:PtGq8.1816$fL6.37037@news.cpqcorp.net...K   ...   K > In fact, I don't really get the hostility against HP, let alone it's CEO.-5 > What exactly have they done to warrent such hatred?d  J From our viewpoint, the acquisition is unwelcome because it gets Curly offK what otherwise would be the increasingly uncomfortable hook of his completejJ non-performance in office:  in the absence of the acquisition brouhaha, itJ seems likely that an improvement in Compaq management might occur, whereasL given the public statements from C&C if the acquisition occurs there'll justJ be more of the same (until it has again proved incompetent - which extends' its duration by at least a year or so).o  J As for Carly herself, the best people to ask are those who know her best -H at HP.  And their answer seems very clear (though I'd welcome first-handK corrections to my second-hand impressions):  she runs right over anyone whoeD disagrees with her (by whatever means are available), over-promises,4 under-delivers, and finds others to blame (and cut).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2002 12:08:24 -0600t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)I1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... 3 Message-ID: <tfY1rufLLZJp@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  \ In article <3CAB3FF4.20FDC812@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> t= >> Here's a deal JF (do you have a name or just initials?)...t > L > Jean-Franois. But I have learned that JF is much easier when dealing with( > people whose only language is english. > K >> If Carly confirms the committment to the OpenVMS Itanium port - then you I >> quietlly go away, or just become a read-only member of the community. ? > L > Confirming the port to Itanium does not mean confirming that VMS will be a  9 	Come on JF... Fred wrote in response to what you penned:C   > L >At this juncture in time, I do not believe it healthy to be so defensive ofK >VMS. Until we know what HP as in store for VMS, it is best to keep some   rJ >"distance" from your loved on so that *IF* the news are bad, you won't be > so terrified/depressed.  >   8 	Take him up on it... will it or won't it?  You seem to ? 	believe it won't.  You cleverly then prattle on about "proper  G 	marketing" and "core product".  Nice try... not unlike our Sun friend.e   	Told you Fred...    				Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:01:52 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>U1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...o8 Message-ID: <ua6mauso95vper2b6t2akfi7gsusc8g362@4ax.com>  5 On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:28:43 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:    I >...and at 20+ years, I believe that would constitute O.S.-cide, not justoG >another spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp exercising herS4 >"right" to attack and destroy a defenseless unborn.  E 20+ years of 36bit code did not save TOPS-10/TOPS-20. TOPS-20 V7 fromeC circa 1989 could still run code written for the first PDP-6 MONITORbF (which later evolved into TOPS-10) written in 1965. As DEC didn't evenD try to provide a MACRO-10/20 compiler as they did with VAX => Alpha,A or even anything like full TOPS-20 compatibility to VMS,  decadesd/ worth of work was effectively destroyed.  Go toeF http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ and browse the archives to see just aF sample of DEC, DECUS and other third party software rescued for use in emulators. s  D The death of TOPS-10/TOPS-20 was O.S.-cide and, perhaps, Carly could; quote that as a historical reference when/if she kills VMS.c  D And yes people really did run executables from the 60s well into the? 90s. In particular the Greenblatt chess program (the first realiA program) was still popular with gamers right up to the day our 20mD finally died. The file dates of the executable and help files reallyE were in the 1960s as backup/dumper honoured the dates during save and- restore operations).  A The PDP-10 range, the system on which the Arpanet was effectively:C born,  IP as we know it began, where EMACS was first created, wherefD MUDs began. where EMPIRE began etc. etc. etc was just blown away. ToE this day VMS Mail is close to a subset of the TOPS-20 MM/MS programs.r% Don't count on history to save VMS.. 3 -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:30:07 -0500K- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... , Message-ID: <3CAB4A21.BD0E0A9E@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:@ >         Take him up on it... will it or won't it?  You seem toG >         believe it won't.  You cleverly then prattle on about "proper P >         marketing" and "core product".  Nice try... not unlike our Sun friend.    M As I have said, I do not equate the port to IA64 to VMS's survival/success. I.K equate it only to longer life. But I don't consider extending VMS's currentr comatosed state to be "life".m  K How can you be so confident that HP intends to market and grow VMS when youo0 have no idea what Carly intends to do with VMS ?  N There is no question that HP is bound to continue its obligations with regardsI to existing VMS customers, with DII-COE being a driving force for the fewrM customers who have paid/signed for such an agreement. You'll note that MPE iso( getting similar support for a few years.  M But this does not say anything about maximizing VMS' potential, expanding itsnD market, growing its installed base and working hard to put back someO confidence that VMS is to be taken seriously as a serious long term contender. e  L Carly chose not to talk about VMS. Carly therefore is to be held responsible* for the uncertainty about the fate of VMS.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:17:00 +0800" From: naturalhgh592919@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Your Health is Everything! Don't lose it! 59291914119% Message-ID: <B0001938422@NS.ch.co.kr>-   <html><body bgColor="#CCCCCC" topmargin=1 onMouseOver="window.status='http://www.naturalhgh.com'; return true" oncontextmenu="return false" ondragstart="return false" onselectstart="return false">S <p>Hello info-vax@mvb.saic.com,<br><br>Would you like to: <br><br>Feel younger?<br>.I Decrease body fat?<br>Feel stronger and more alive?<br>Reverse aging?<br>uQ Enhance physical and mental performance?<br>Strenthen your immune system?<br><br>sP We use to believe the "fountain of youth" was a myth. Clinical studies may tell  a new story!<br><br>u <font color="#ff0000"><b>Studies published in the <a href="http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/323/1/1">New eR England Journal of Medicine</a> and other journals show that Human Growth Hormone @ (HGH) may reverse human biological aging by: </b></font></p><br>H <table width="468" border="1"><tr><td width="237">Increasing energy</td>W <td width="215">Decreasing body fat</td></tr><tr><td width="237">Reducing wrinkles</td>e_ <td width="215">Improving immune function</td></tr><tr><td width="237">Thickening the skin</td>tl <td width="215">Endurance</td></tr><tr><td width="237">Restoring lost hair</td><td width="215">Vitality</td> </tr><tr><td width="237">Restoring hair color</td><td width="215">Bone Density</td></tr><tr><td width="237">Improving cholesterol profile</td> <td width="215">Normalizing blood pressure</td></tr><tr><td width="237">Increased strength </td><td width="215">Elevate mood-improve sleep</td>os </tr><tr><td width="237">Increasing sexual function</td><td width="215">Restoring muscle mass</td></tr></table><br>le <font color="#FF3333"><b><font color="#FF0000">HEAR WHAT THE EXPERTS ARE SAYING</font></b></font><br>r "The effects of six months of human growth hormone on lean body mass and adipose-tissue were equivalent in magnitude to the changes h incurred during 10-20 years of aging."<br><b>Daniel Rudman, M.D.</b> New England Journal of Medicine<br>p <br>"We really have something here which may be able to reverse some of the problems associated with aging."<br> <b>Dr. Anthony Karpos, M.D. </b><br><br><a href="http://naturalhgh.bxemail.com">Click here to learn more and get a FREE 30 days supply of HGH</a><br><br>a You are receiving this email as a subscriber<br>to the Opt-In America Mailing List.<br>To remove yourself from all related maillists,<br>vE just <a href="http://remove.bxemail.com">click here</a></body></html>A   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:32:48 -0600/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>,5 Subject: [Q] How to set up flag pages on HP printers?nT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C218@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  L Hello all; we're running a mixed version (6.2 --> 7.2-1) OpenVMS cluster andL using TCPware V5.3-2.  We've been asked to configure one of our printers (anH HPLJ 5 Si) to print a banner page before each job.  We have followed theC procedures for adding a flag page to the queue.  The results from a.K show/queue/full command are below.  We're using TCP/IP to reach the printer  and it has a Jet Direct card.5  # ES_VOLTS$ show queue/full tlc_40016'> Server queue TLC_40016, idle, on VOLTS::, mounted form DEFAULT)   <HPLJ5SI - room 400.16 -  TLC Building>t@   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FLAG,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] G   /PROCESSOR=TCPWARE_TSSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR n   /SEPARATE=(RESET=(HP_RESET))  G The problem that we're having is that the flag page is being printed inrH portrait format and the info would look much better if it was printed inL landscape format.  How can we configure the queue so the flag page prints inG landscape and the rest of the output is in whatever format the user hasd" requested via the /FORM qualifier?  	 Ed Stuartn+ Information Technology & Telecommunicationsw
 Austin EnergyrE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**0   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.184 ************************son 1 @~g    A~g    B~g    C~g    D~g    E~g    F~g    G~g    H~g    I~g    J~g    K~g    L~g    M~g    N~g    O~g    P~g    Q~g    R~g    S~g    T~g    U~g    V~g    W~g    X~g    Y~g    Z~g    [~g    \~g    ]~g    ^~g    _~g    `~g    a~g    b~g    c~g    d~g    e~g    f~g    g~g    h~g    i~g    j~g    k~g    l~g    m~g    n~g    o~g    p~g    q~g    r~g    s~g    t~g    u~g    v~g    w~g    x~g    y~g    z~g    {~g    |~g    }~g    ~~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g    ~g     g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    	g    
g    g    g    
g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g     g    !g    "g    #g    $g    %g    &g    'g    (g    )g    *g    +g    ,g    -g    .g    /g    0g    1g    2g    3g    4g    5g    6g    7g    8g    9g    :g    ;g    <g    =g    >g    ?g    @g    Ag    Bg    Cg    Dg    Eg    Fg    Gg    Hg    Ig    Jg    Kg    Lg    Mg    Ng    Og    Pg    Qg    Rg    Sg    Tg    Ug    Vg    Wg    Xg    Yg    Zg    [g    \g    ]g    ^g    _g    `g    ag    bg    cg    dg    eg    fg    gg    hg    ig    jg    kg    lg    mg    ng    og    pg    qg    rg    sg    tg    ug    vg    wg    xg    yg    zg    {g    |g    }g    ~g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    g    