1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 05 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 188       Contents: Re: Alphaserver 1000a Problem  Re: An alpha Re: An alpha Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: British Summer Time  Re: British Summer Time ) Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ?? - Re: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ?? - Re: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ?? ; Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... ? Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... ? Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...  Re: Digital 7-year plan... EISA configuration tool F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: Is AMD doing an Intel? Re: Is AMD doing an Intel?$ Re: Java exec env value not working?$ Re: Java exec env value not working?* KZPBA -> HSZ70 : "transport timeout" error Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS Memory Corruption  Re: Memory Corruption  Old LPS17 booting  RE: Old LPS17 booting  Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 OT Re: British Summer Time Re: OT Re: British Summer Time PLUG: jpg2pdf 2.4 ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it > Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! RE: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Server Side Includes Re: Technical Forums: useless URL, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... Re: Wanted: the VMS pedigreeB Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?P Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class CluP Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:05:31 GMT , From: "Patrick Coulier" <patrick@delight.be>& Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000a Problem6 Message-ID: <vNdr8.11$6c3.10617@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>  
 Good news,   We found the problem ...  I Some thin piece of metal from between the PCI-slotopenings came loose and ! made contact to the nearest chip.   J This was causing the intermittent hang during system startup (srom V1.0 cc hang).    F Sometimes the systems started up but the internal SCSI ISP10x0 was not	 detected.   * Removing the piece of metal did the trick.  < Happy to have converted another good alphaserver to OpenVMS,   Patrick   + Patrick COULIER [mailto:Patrick@delight.be]   * Systemengineer Delight Information Systems   Archimedesstraat 7 bus 6  
 8400 Oostende    Tel: 32(0)59/554.547   Fax: 32(0)59/806.888      9 "Patrick Coulier" <patrick@delight.be> schreef in bericht 0 news:Jm2m8.291$GX2.1709@nreader1.kpnqwest.net... > Hello there, > L > When trying to UPGRADE an old inherited Alphaserver 1000A 5/400 from NT to a J > recent version of VMS, I get following message on the small LCD-display: >  > srom V1.0 cc >   > And the systems seems to hang. > ? > Any explanations or ideas about what is going on/wrong here ? . > Any roadmaps available to do this operation. >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Patrick Coulier % > System Engineer Delight I.S Belgium  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 03:20:20 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: An alpha 5 Message-ID: <1020405030847.1634A-100000@Ives.egh.com>    On 4 Apr 2002, Ed Page wrote:   E > I am aquiring a DEC 3000/500 alpha.  The problem is I dont have the G > root password.  So I need to know how to crack the root password.  If F > no one knows, then Ill go use Satan.  This is legitamate.  Who would4 > want to maliciously crack an old system like that?F > The reason I am asking is because of the poor alternative OS supportB > (netBSD apearing the best, if anyone will tell me how to setup aD > serial connection and install NetBSD that way, ill be happy) and I) > lack OS CD for VMS so I cant reinstall.  >  > Thanks for the help   E A little terminology first:  There is no such thing as "root" on VMS.  You mean "SYSTEM".  H 2nd, you can't crack it, and neither can Satan.  (Well, maybe you could,7 by brute force, but it would take hundreds of years...)   E However, if you really have legitimate access to the system, then you A probably couldn't care less what the current password is; all you E really want to do is change it to something you know.  This is easily D done.  See the FAQ, which also answers many other questions you will
 soon have.  9   The OpenVMS FAQ is archived in the following locations:   "     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/.     ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/comp.os.vms/,     comp.answers and news.answers newsgroups   (quoted from the FAQ.)  < Lastly, if this system is for personal use, you are probably> eligible for the VMS Hobbyist program, which includes licenses: (for practically everything) and cheap CD-ROM's of VMS andA selected layered products.  See http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/    Oh, and welcome to (Open)VMS!    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:36:02 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: An alpha 8 Message-ID: <00A0BFC2.53B4503E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <fdecc81.0204042030.72dd902f@posting.google.com>, nerdbert@yahoo.com (Ed Page) writes: D >I am aquiring a DEC 3000/500 alpha.  The problem is I dont have theF >root password.  So I need to know how to crack the root password.  IfE >no one knows, then Ill go use Satan.  This is legitamate.  Who would 3 >want to maliciously crack an old system like that?     E >The reason I am asking is because of the poor alternative OS support A >(netBSD apearing the best, if anyone will tell me how to setup a C >serial connection and install NetBSD that way, ill be happy) and I ( >lack OS CD for VMS so I cant reinstall. >  >Thanks for the help  L Assuming that VMS is in fact installed, you want to find the OpenVMS FAQ andI look under the item called something like "I forgot the system password."   L (The built-in hint there is that on VMS, it's the SYSTEM password, not root.  K If you're really impatient, go to Google groups and search comp.os.vms for  I "system password", and you'll find one of the fairly frequent posts that    answers this question in detail.   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:51:05 +0200 3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures- Message-ID: <3CAD4959.69B81FEC@hda.hydro.com>    Douglas Siebert wrote:D > This points out an interesting issue about the "x 9s availability"F > claims.  For some applications, being up constantly with no downtimeH > for 10 years then having a single 10 hour downtime would be preferableE > to having ten 30 second downtime events per year for 10 years, even H > though the total downtime is much greater for the first scenario (4 9sE > versus 5 9s)  One obviously strives to keep both the number and the G > duration of downtime events to a minimum, but given finite resources, A > different applications would choose between number and duration  > differently.  > That's a very interesting point, particularly when the time ofA individual events starts to get close to the sw timeout values in   various network protocol stacks.  E I.e. when Novell implemented connection caching in their clients, you E could (by enabling the highest levels, which also carried the highest H overheads) survive an hour-long network or server outage, without losing any pending operations:   G When the network and/or server became available again, the client would H transparently reopen all open file handles, re-aquire all current locks,F if needed resubmit any writes that the server hadn't had time to flush etc.  E Even at the default lower levels this removed (for many applications) 8 short network outages from the availability calculation.   Terje   E PS. My current big headache related to (PC server) availability is in E regard to disaster recovery: When we promise two nines during working A hours _on a monthly basis_ (my emphasis), it means that we have a 7 maximum of about two hours to restore any given server.   E I.e. even if total server failure is quite rare, when it does happen, G i.e. due to a storage subsystem failure that takes down all or multiple ; disks in a RAID setup, we have just two hours to work with:   G Standard operating procedure is to first try to reboot the server, then F to try to move the disk array to a standby server, and then finally toA start a full restore operation on a replacement array.  Restoring ) 300-500 GB in one hour is _not_ easy. :-(    --    - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 06:33:29 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures1 Message-ID: <3CAD4539.6DE0464B@trailing-edge.com>    Toon Moene wrote:  >  > Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > F > > one of the places that we looked at when we were doing ha/cmp thatI > > needed five nines was 1-800 lookup service (aka the mapping between a D > > 1-800 number and a real numbers). That was total of five minutesI > > outage per year ... regardless of reason, planned, unplanned, etc.  A B > > non-clustered fault-tolerant system w/o hot-pluggable software? > > ... could fail the five-nines system with a single software  > > maintenance event. > H > The 15th of January, 1990 outage that destroyed a large part of Bell'sH > ability to serve 1-800 numbers lasted O(10) hours.  That would destroyI > any five-nines claim for O(10**6) hours, or about 3.6 * 10**9 s / 3.2 * % > 10**7 (s/y) years ~ over a century.   > It should be noted that the 15-Jan-1990 outage was a result ofE modifying software in an attempt to make the network more efficiently = handle hardware failures.  The network, however, had grown so & complex that testing was not feasible.  < For me, the lesson was that adding more hardware/software to> improve automated handling of failures doesn't help you if the) resulting system grows much more complex.    Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 16:05:34 GMT   From: hack@watson.ibm.com (hack)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures+ Message-ID: <a8ki0e$c5c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>   - In article <3CAD4959.69B81FEC@hda.hydro.com>, 5 Terje Mathisen  <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> wrote: K >[Doug Siebert compared many short interruptions with one big interruption] ? >That's a very interesting point, particularly when the time of B >individual events starts to get close to the sw timeout values in! >various network protocol stacks.  > F >I.e. when Novell implemented connection caching in their clients, youF >could (by enabling the highest levels, which also carried the highestI >overheads) survive an hour-long network or server outage, without losing  >any pending operations: > H >When the network and/or server became available again, the client wouldI >transparently reopen all open file handles, re-aquire all current locks, G >if needed resubmit any writes that the server hadn't had time to flush  >etc.  > F >Even at the default lower levels this removed (for many applications)9 >short network outages from the availability calculation.  >  >Terje  J When we (the group that developed the experimental OS that I'm still usingH 20 years later) developed our network protocols over Ethernet, we had NOH connection timeouts whatsoever.  (Time only entered into the exponentialK backoff algorithm at the lowest level, below connections.)  This meant that K we could start a remote-backup process on Friday night and see it completed L on Monday morning even though the network was scheduled for maintenance overL the weekend (involving cutting and rerouting cables).  Most other people hadL to worry about this (they were using TCP-based services).  Of course, from aM user's point of view one needs to ability to abort a transaction that appears H to take too long:  one enquires about network errors, finds out that theJ physical network is down, and then has the *choice* of cancelling the job.  L This approach is particularly useful when doing kernel debugging on a systemH on which communication protocols are running:  one may stay disabled forL network interrupts for minutes at a time.  In our case this had no effect onO the protocols at all from a logical point of view (only on their performance).     Michel.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 08:52:31 -0800 1 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)   Subject: Re: Blade architectures< Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204050852.74168de@posting.google.com>  ] Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote in message news:<wkelhvxr5s.fsf@earthlink.net>... H > another issue when we were working on the distributed lock manager forH > HA/CMP ... was various of the DBMS vendors that also had products thatH > ran in VMS cluster environment had complaints about the length of timeG > things were suspended when a failure occured and lock consistency had B > to be rebuilt in a VMS environment. One major requirement of theG > HA/CMP DLM (by various DBMS vendors) was to have a significant faster 6 > recovery time (than vms) when a cluster node failed.  . I'd be interested in the results you achieved.  D This is an area of VMS clusters that is little understood.  (I did aF DECUS presentation called 'Understanding VAXcluster State Transitions'F which may be found at http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/)  With the8 default values for SYSGEN parameters left unchanged, the? failure-detection time (typically 8-9 seconds with a LAN as the D cluster interconnect) and the time the cluster waits for a temporaryC failure to be resolved before giving up (20 seconds by default, but F commonly raised to 120 seconds in Local-Area VMS Clusters (LAVCs)) canD be fairly lengthy.  (Even worse, using a quorum disk in the old daysA when the default quorum disk validation interval was longer could A cause delays of up to 40 seconds to re-validate the quorum disk's C votes when a node left and quorum was temporarily lost.)  These two ? constituted the major delays after a node unexpectedly left the F cluster, not the actual lock database rebuild work in conjunction withF the cluster state transition, which typically took only a small number of seconds.   F With care, the SYSGEN parameters controlling the failure-detection and= failure-resolution timer values (TIMVCFAIL and RECNXINTERVAL, E respectively) can be lowered to provide worst-case times as little as  1 second each if necessary.   B Also, over the past 15 years or so, improvements to VMS algorithmsC have signficantly reduced the time required to actually rebuild the A lock database after a node leaves, and also reduced the number ofu! cases in which this must be done.:  C The duration of the period during which locking was blocked for the F lock database rebuild (during the last state transition which requiredA one) can be examined with SDA.  Here's an example (taken about 10T years ago on a VAX):   $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM0 SDA> define toff = @(@clu$gl_club + club$l_toff). SDA> define ton = @(@clu$gl_club + club$l_ton) SDA> evaluate ton-toff1 Hex = 0000026B   Decimal = 619  PDT$Q_COMQH+00003l  C The units are 10-millisecond clock ticks.  In this example, lockings was blocked for 6.19 seconds.a. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:28:20 GMTx* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures@ Message-ID: <81mr8.14601$w7.1070555@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Keith Parris" <KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message6 news:6ec1251e.0204050852.74168de@posting.google.com...8 > Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote in message& news:<wkelhvxr5s.fsf@earthlink.net>...J > > another issue when we were working on the distributed lock manager forJ > > HA/CMP ... was various of the DBMS vendors that also had products thatJ > > ran in VMS cluster environment had complaints about the length of timeI > > things were suspended when a failure occured and lock consistency had D > > to be rebuilt in a VMS environment. One major requirement of theI > > HA/CMP DLM (by various DBMS vendors) was to have a significant fastero8 > > recovery time (than vms) when a cluster node failed. >n0 > I'd be interested in the results you achieved.  I They achieved the goal of being significantly faster than the VMS systemslK they were comparing them with, but it turned out that those VMS systems mayf not have been the most current.n  H About three years ago I had some enjoyable conversations with one of theF HA/CMP DLM implementors.  Though they wrote their code in 1993, he wasC unaware of significant advances in the DLM (such as dynamic masteryeI migration based on load and speed-ups in lock database rebuilding after aNK failure), even though the I&DS volume describing them had been published in  1991.   J It would be nice to know more details about their internal implementation,' but Clam never allowed them to publish.-   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 03:20:32 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>   Subject: Re: British Summer Time/ Message-ID: <uaqnfvt9022s73@news.supernews.com>h  0 British Summertime - Isn't that an Oxymoron ????     DT     -- Island Computers US Corp.n 2700 Gregory Street. Savannah GA 31404n Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332l International: 001 912 447 6622-  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.nete www.hpaq.net  = Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in message < news:1017823930.25390.0.nnrp-12.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...; > OpenVMS Alpha 7.3, TCPIP (ucx) 5.1 eco 3, iupop3, mx 5.0.eF > I dialled in to set Summer Time on Monday night (I thought it did it% > automatically, but apparently not).  >rI > Now everything (VMS, PCs) shows the right time, but email's arriving on( PCsV$ > timestamped an hour in the future. > : > Here's all the logicals I can see ($ sh log *tim*,*tz*).+ > Anyone know what I've done wrong please ?. > 	 > Thanks,v > Chris Sharmane >o" >   "IUPOP3_CLIENT_TIMEOUT" = "10"8 >   "PWRK$PCFS_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:35.63"7 >   "PWRK$PCI_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:35.63"t= >   "PWRK$STREAMSOS_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:36.50")- >   "SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME" = "ffff2726a756d909"lA >   "SYS$LOCALTIME" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]GB-EIRE."w( >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING" = "0"% >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "0"r >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME" = "GMT" : >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.4.0/02"3 >   "SYS$TZDIR" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.USER]"m/ >         = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]" ! >   "TCPIP$BIND_TIMEOUT" = "...."  >  >  >d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 06:58:00 -0700c% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>.  Subject: Re: British Summer TimeB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020405065610.00b06e80@raptor.psccos.com>  E All I know is that in the summer of 1972, we got transferred (via the F USAF) from the deserts of New Mexico to England near Cambridge.  WhileF all the Brits spent the summer bemoaning the heat and sweating, I wore# a coat the whole summer...<grin>...o    . At 01:20 AM 4/5/2002, Island (hpaq.net) wrote:1 >British Summertime - Isn't that an Oxymoron ????  >o >u >DT  >t >  >--i >Island Computers US Corp. >2700 Gregory Street >Savannah GA 31404 >Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332  >International: 001 912 447 6622! >Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096o >dbturner@hpaq.net
 >www.hpaq.netn >l> >Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in message= >news:1017823930.25390.0.nnrp-12.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...i= > > OpenVMS Alpha 7.3, TCPIP (ucx) 5.1 eco 3, iupop3, mx 5.0.eH > > I dialled in to set Summer Time on Monday night (I thought it did it' > > automatically, but apparently not).u > >kK > > Now everything (VMS, PCs) shows the right time, but email's arriving ont >PCs& > > timestamped an hour in the future. > >h< > > Here's all the logicals I can see ($ sh log *tim*,*tz*).- > > Anyone know what I've done wrong please ?  > >  > > Thanks,  > > Chris Sharmanm > >t$ > >   "IUPOP3_CLIENT_TIMEOUT" = "10": > >   "PWRK$PCFS_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:35.63"9 > >   "PWRK$PCI_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:35.63"u? > >   "PWRK$STREAMSOS_STARTUP_TIME" = "23-FEB-2002 17:57:36.50"r/ > >   "SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME" = "ffff2726a756d909" C > >   "SYS$LOCALTIME" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]GB-EIRE."b* > >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING" = "0"' > >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "0"'! > >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME" = "GMT"u< > >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.4.0/02"5 > >   "SYS$TZDIR" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.USER]" 1 > >         = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]"-# > >   "TCPIP$BIND_TIMEOUT" = "...."  > >0 > >0 > >    ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+cI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |oI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |tI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:13:15 +0200r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>p2 Subject: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ??' Message-ID: <3CAD86CB.5544848B@aaa.com>a   Hi.a9 A few days ago I raised the VCC_MAXSIZE sysgen param fromM2 the default 6400 to 512000 to make a 256 Mb cache.  : Now, I'v seen that the "Kbytes in Use" never reach anyware: near the "Total Size" value. After four days in production it looks like this :   Virtual I/O CachetF     Total Size (Kbytes)         256000    Read IO Count                7410675eF     Free Kbytes                 247568    Read Hit Count               4096797d2     Kbytes in Use                 8432    Read Hit Rate                    55% G     Write IO Bypassing Cache     10310    Write IO Count               = 901914G     Files Retained                  98    Read IO Bypassing Cache      U 958505  > During this four days I'v seen "Kbytes in Use" values of up to" aprox 40 Mb (40000 in the output).  1 Does this all mean that my chache is "to large" ?=   Jan-Erik Sderholm.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:36:57 +0200- From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>6 Subject: Re: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ??& Message-ID: <3CAD9A69.4070401@home.nl>  F Yes, that could well be. This cache mechanism can only accomodate 100 E files. If you access more than 100 files at the same time, the other aF files will not be cached. That may explain the rather low hit rate of 	 only 55%.e  F I know it is possible to set up more caches, for instance 1 cache per I disk. This was standard in earlier versions of VMS, but now the standard  G is 1 cache I don't know if the 100 file limit is a limit per cache, or  D for all caches. If the first is true, you might be able to get more * files in cache and thus a higher hit rate.  I The new cache mechanism does not have the 100 file limit, but if I'm not u, mistaken Compaq still advises not to use it.  r   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:a   >Hi.: >A few days ago I raised the VCC_MAXSIZE sysgen param from3 >the default 6400 to 512000 to make a 256 Mb cache.. > ; >Now, I'v seen that the "Kbytes in Use" never reach anywaren; >near the "Total Size" value. After four days in productiona >it looks like this :r >d >Virtual I/O CacheG >    Total Size (Kbytes)         256000    Read IO Count                 >7410675G >    Free Kbytes                 247568    Read Hit Count              n >40967973 >    Kbytes in Use                 8432    Read Hit  >Rate                    55%H >    Write IO Bypassing Cache     10310    Write IO Count                >901914tH >    Files Retained                  98    Read IO Bypassing Cache       >958505a >l? >During this four days I'v seen "Kbytes in Use" values of up tor# >aprox 40 Mb (40000 in the output).i >t2 >Does this all mean that my chache is "to large" ? >  >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >_   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:25:53 +0200t9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 6 Subject: Re: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ??' Message-ID: <3CADC201.A8960284@aaa.com>    Dirk Munk wrote: > G > Yes, that could well be. This cache mechanism can only accomodate 100p > files.   What a stipid limit !!A If there at least could have been some sysgen param to adjust it.,  7 Well, well, I think I'll put the VCC_MAXSIZE down a bite sometime during the weekend...   Regards and thanks !	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 06:13:47 -0600nB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)D Subject: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...3 Message-ID: <ZmmkAcPHe6Uv@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  k In article <E71r8.1890$fL6.37626@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:tM > Perhaps there are people who don't like her management style, why does this K > translate over into HP and their product set?  I can understand MPE users N > not being happy.  But I also am led to believe (by public comments) that theD > user base had dwindled to the point that it couldn't be sustained. >   F There seems to be a general dislike of Carly showing up in places thatI have nothing to do with DEC/CPQ/HP. For example, the following appears in 0 the April issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal, page 112:   Carly's TuneI I met a girl who sang the blues and I asked her for some HP news, but shedI just smiled and gently coughed. I went down to the gadget store where I'd D bought oscilloscopes before, but the man there said they'd spun thatJ business off. And in the boardroom the children screamed, directors cried,I and Carly schemed, but not a word would they say -- about the old HP Way.oL And the two men I admired most, their fabled legacy is toast, their business* on a downhill coast, the day that HP died.  I [Not the greatest composition that I've ever come across, but the messageu is clear...]   Simon.   -- mB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:45:29 -0500, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>H Subject: Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...+ Message-ID: <a8k6a70ld6@enews1.newsguy.com>w  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote inw5 message news:ZmmkAcPHe6Uv@eisner.encompasserve.org...e > Carly's TuneK > I met a girl who sang the blues and I asked her for some HP news, but shemK > just smiled and gently coughed. I went down to the gadget store where I'dsF > bought oscilloscopes before, but the man there said they'd spun thatL > business off. And in the boardroom the children screamed, directors cried,K > and Carly schemed, but not a word would they say -- about the old HP Way.sE > And the two men I admired most, their fabled legacy is toast, theiri business, > on a downhill coast, the day that HP died. >eK > [Not the greatest composition that I've ever come across, but the messagea > is clear...] >s  K Not the greatest composition?!  You're obviously not familiar with American J pop/folk music.  The author is borrowing from Don McLean's "American Pie",F released in the early '70's.  http://www.don-mclean.com/i/pieintro.asp   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 12:25:27 -0600aB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)H Subject: Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...3 Message-ID: <RETmhgMiGsaQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <a8k6a70ld6@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes: > M > Not the greatest composition?!  You're obviously not familiar with AmericanoL > pop/folk music.  The author is borrowing from Don McLean's "American Pie",H > released in the early '70's.  http://www.don-mclean.com/i/pieintro.asp >   J You are correct; this is something that I have little knowledge about. :-)   Thanks for the URL.c   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:57:26 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>o# Subject: Re: Digital 7-year plan...e' Message-ID: <3CADF396.85563207@Free.fr>-  H It was around february 2001. I used to VMS consult at SWISS PTT in Bern.   D.   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > H > >>> I would add to Franck's post that, last year, the search engine of1 > the Oracle WEB site gave no match for Rdb...<<<r > J > Well, I can't speak for last year, but I just went to www.oracle.com and0 > entered Rdb and I received all sorts of hits.*   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:15:16 GMT ' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>l  Subject: EISA configuration tool$ Message-ID: <3cad9551$1@zfree.co.nz>  F I'm installing VMS on a Digital Server 3000. The system was fitted witE a tokenring interface for which VMS has no support. So I installed a tA 3C507 ethernet card. The 507 does not show up so the question is:s  . Do I need the EISA bus to make the 3C507 work?# If so, where can I get the utility?f         http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:36:54 +0100tT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxe& Message-ID: <3CADB686.8030104@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  @ > Andrew Harrison wrote in message <3CAB08FE.8060607@sun.com>... >  > @ >>So why with this obviously impecible engineering background do/ >>you insist on posting tosh to a public forum.e >> >> > I > So, why with an obvious lack of technical engineering background to youo/ > insist on claiming you aren't a market droid?a >  > F >>Just to remind you I will include a FPF (Freddy Public F***K*P) with >>each response. >> >> > I > So SunWipe(tm), what exactly is causing you to lose your cool so badly.tK > Your normal bleating tone has become a shrilll whine lately, and now sucht@ > un-British language.  Tsk, tsk.  Or have you mistaken this for > rec.sports.golf ?c >  > C >>FPF 1. Sun will not be able to affort the costs of building SPARCa5 >>processors. (Sun has never build SPARC processors).X >> >> > L > So pick a nit.  You don't actually "build" 'em, and that's a problem.  YouM > have to pay others to "build" them.  Which means it takes more time than itMK > should, you don't have control of the process, and you are probably using 5 > yesterdays process, and/or paying through the nose.e >       F Umm do you understand the difference between running and developing a G FAB and using capacity in a FAB that is being used for other processors G from a balance book standpoint ? Obviously not. Texas and other vendors B build SPARC CPU's in their FAB's which also build other processorsA for other vendors and for their own products.Sun is a FABless CPUfA vendor.Since you don't appear to understand the economics of this F hence your off the mark comments lets move to another area of apparent: missunderstanding on your part. The origional Alpha model.  E FPF 2. Freddy doesn't understand the Alpha model, appearing to think  0 that the Alpha development costs were the issue.  E The orgional Digital model was Alpha developed and funded by Digital BE being built in a FAB developed and funded by Digital. While the costseC of developing Alpha were large they were not out of wack with otheriE vendors. The thing that ultimately ended in the demise of Digital was1A the costs of building running and then refreshing the Alpha FABS.l  A This was because the origional business model on which Alpha was .C conceived was based on absurdly over optimistic volume projections.n  D At the time many people including myself questioned the intelligenceA of this approach. But at the time Digital saw themselves as a enduD to end supplied and being a engineering company they wanted to buildA their own CPU's. This was not necessary at the time and only made > business sense if Alpha volumes met the origional projections.  = At the time I was flamed by members of the Choir for pointing : this out claims of FUD of course followed. Of course as we< now know (except apparently Freddy Boy) the Choir were wrong@ the FAB's bled Digital dry not the cost of developing each AlphaA processor. One reason for example why Digital didn't market AlphaeA was because they couldn't afford to, they were spending all theirc money funding the FAB.  @ The sale the FAB to Intel was to only option that Digital had to> ensure their independant survival it also ironically made them buyable by Compaq.  C There is nothing to indicate that Compaq could not have afforded to ? fund development of Alpha processors as a FABless CPU vendor inb= the same model as Sun had developed sucessfully while Digitalu@ floundered. In fact Compaqs development costs cannot be compared< with Sun because Compaq unlike Sun would prefer to offer x86@ products at the low end rather than Alpha. This means that thereB is no requirement for low cost low power Alpha development becauseA Compaq can always build AMD or Intel based systems in this space.   ? At the mid to high end server space the processors Alpha had toG> compete with are IA64, Power 4 and Ultra III. Its worth noting= that Intel may be huge but at the moment they are subsidising0@ IA64 which is hemoraging money with IA32 sales while also having> to continue to invest in FAB's which could and would have been leveraged by Alpha.e  > I say nothing to indicate because no one beleives the economic: justification produced by Compaq to justify the Alphacide,< corporate lack of testicles is a much more accurate analysis8 of the real reasons. If the estimates of EV7 performance: published by the Choir are even 80% accurate than the nail7 is also in the coffin for the not being able to competet performance wise with IA64.t  ; If you want to pin the blame ultimately for the whole sorryo8 debacle and subsequent shafting of customers you need to: go back to the origional business case for doing Alpha and: doing the Alpha FAB. The first was marginal the second was8 absurdly optimistic. Digitals woes and subsequent demise  can be traced to this one event.     FPF 3 to follow :):)     RegardsE Andrew HarrisonR   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:22:59 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>SO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxT3 Message-ID: <ipjr8.1945$fL6.39153@news.cpqcorp.net>$  F Wassa matter Andy, no sales calls scheduled recently?  You are gettingJ increasingly windy, whiny, and shrill.  How's that Sparc IV comming along?1 Think it'll beat the IA64 you think so little of?i    2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message <3CADB686.8030104@sun.com>...l >  >w >Regards >Andrew Harrison >  >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:59:39 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxp& Message-ID: <3CADC9EB.7010002@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  5 > On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:42:54 +0100, Andrew Harrison 5 > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote:l >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>H >>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:57:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >>><andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>>p >>>k >>>t >>>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>Q >>>>>Hey Sun wipe.  You doing this on billable time?  Why not go and write a real3 >>>>>cluster product.e >>>>>  >>>>>m >>>>> : >>>>Now thats what I would call a quality, adult response.: >>>>Do you want me to start calling you Freddy Baby, seems >>>>like it.:):):) >>>> >>>>G >>>Okay, another note for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002.  Strangelys) >>>enough, both are from the same author., >>>.C >>>Andy boy, you're such a hypocrite.  And just fyi, since I use an G >>>off-line newsreader, I have all messages in this group posted in theRD >>>last few months.  Interestingly enough, the FIRST person in theseD >>>discussions to start name-calling and personal attacks was YOU!!!B >>>Up until that time, while there were disagreements, most peopleB >>>recognize that much of the discussions are a matter of personal >>>opinion.R >>>  >> >>9 >>Who do you work for again ?? Ohh I forgot from the highF; >>moral tone you have just tried to assume I thought it wasS% >>some other company and not ChomPaq.1 >>= >>If you want rude just contemplate what your customers think A >>about you. Your memory is short if you have forgotten AlphacideB< >>Compaction and all the other things that have been done to >>shaft your customers.- >>A >>And there is no wiggling out of this, you are responsible along ; >>with the rest of the Choir to a greater or lesser degree.e >>B >>Who amongst the Choir trumpeted the 25 year life span commitmentA >>made by Digital for Alpha when the whole project was hemoragingp? >>money at a rate the vastly accelerated the demise of Digital.  >> >>[major snippage...]- >> > E > Whew!  Andrew you're really on a roll.  I've never seen so many non- > sequitors in one note. >     0 Really care to illustrate this with examples ???  3 Ohh I thought not that would expose you to ridicule # allong with your fellow Choristers.8     regardsa   Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:07:26 +0100tT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxk& Message-ID: <3CADCBBE.6050308@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  5 > On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:46:35 +0100, Andrew Harrison 5 > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote:t >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >> > C >>>Andy boy, you are such a joke.  My history is of providing true, I >>>accurate technical information about VMS and VMSclusters... except for9F >>>the few, unfortunately necessary side-trips to deal with this tripe >>>from you. >>>i >>>i >>5 >>Sorry matey but you and I know that this isn't true 8 >>nor it it even funny. Remind yourself who you work for5 >>before you post again it will save you looking like- >>a T**D in public.- >> >> > H > Yawn.  Can't find anything to denigrate in your adversaries so ya just > make things up, eh?e >     B Again don't accuse me of making things up remember your background? remember that as a fully payed up member of the Choir (you werei< actually on a salary) you have been personnaly or indirectlyC responsible for the disinformation and general BS that has been the > hallmark of the whole AlphaGate, WiltFireGate, CompactionGate,A GalaxyGate, ClusterGate and all the other lesser scams going backv: to the Alpha performance scam Phase V DECNET and the 9000.  9 As I said 10 years of shafting is a pretty amazing record = in a way its a backhanded tribute to OpenVMS that people havei  been prepared to put up with it.     Regards  Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:10:30 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>w  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <3CAD7816.468D10CC@mediasec.de>0  E > It was also a task based system.  There weren't any sharable hisegse > AFAIK.  < I'm pretty sure they were in at least 2.0, possibly earlier.   	Jan   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:33:48 GMT) From: jmfbahciv@aol.comO  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k3ca$7dl$1@bob.news.rcn.net>a  C In article <e60r8.226429$2q2.20131295@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, .    "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: > K ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:a8hvue$bsn$9@bob.news.rcn.net...16 >> In article <Bl_q8.1867$fL6.37612@news.cpqcorp.net>,< >>    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >e >....e >nJ >> >He knows how to contact me if he has a technical problem he wants help >> on... >>F >> He's not going to trust your technical expertise.  You've exhibitedA >> none in this thread.  Actually, you've exhibited the opposite. ) >> OS experts can read between the lines.a >c: >Not apparently in this case.  Fred's technical expertise  >is just fine - it'sB >in the wider world that his analytical ability falls a bit short.  = Sorry.  I may have used bad terminology.  A great part of theh? expertise in my area was based on being able to think about thee> customer _before_ generating bits.  I knew a lot of people whoB could generate a lot of bits but, if they didn't provide computingB service that the customers could use, they were essentially randomD bits.  Operating system development is not all programming.  There'sA a lot more involved.  That's what I was talking about.  ListeningaA to the customer was crucial to this biz.  Now, this does not meaneD that the customer was correct in what he was saying.  A lot of timesE he wasn't because he was presenting a solution rather than describingeC a problem.  A good part of being an expert OS developer is figuring C out the problem using what the customer said and then extrapolatingoD it to a general solution.  Solving one customer's problem was rarely a solution for all customers.      /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.r   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:39:31 GMTe From: jmfbahciv@aol.comP  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k3n1$7dl$2@bob.news.rcn.net>r  3 In article <Ak8r8.1915$fL6.38117@news.cpqcorp.net>,h9    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:i > ; >"Don Chiasson" <don_chiasson@notmail.com> wrote in message A >news:bg5r8.9706$0r1.9666@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...h >>C >> "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messager0 >> news:vs3r8.1903$fL6.37828@news.cpqcorp.net... >> [snip...]@ >> > You know, I don't often call customers "morons", so I don'tC >> > think it's a habit.  I regret having made it a personal insulte@ >> > with that off-hand, ill-advised comment.  He isn't a moron,' >> > we just disagree with perspective, , >> > history, and where his note would lead. >> > >> [snip...]? >> Beeeeeep! Wrong answer. You *never* call customers "morons."-J >> They may not agree with you, but if that is the case, try understandingB >> their situation and calmly explaining yours. Even in a pub withC >> workmates late at night, don't do it. Casual words are sometimesn >> repeated. >> >nH >You want me to carry a cross here?  I already said I was wrong, and I'mK >sorry.  This conversation wasn't between a vendor and a customer, however,iL >one of the guys in the conversation has decided that it is, and trumped me  -nK >so it changes the nature of what I would *ever* again say to him - becauseoI >as a customer - (if you had read the other various notes you might know) H >I'll pretty much walk over coals to keep him happy - at least for those >things I *can* control.  C If you're in the computing biz, you treat everybody as if s/he werehB going to be a potential customer...including the guy in the office7 next to you.  The way to fight is never get personal.  o   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.s   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:43:07 GMTf From: jmfbahciv@aol.como  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k3tp$7dl$3@bob.news.rcn.net>s  3 In article <qGOg5KM$UOQb@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i/    young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:eG >In article <P_0r8.1887$fL6.37519@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" r% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:r) >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message ... 6 >>>In article <Bl_q8.1867$fL6.37612@news.cpqcorp.net>, >>>oA >>>Look.  The only reason I'm talking about this stuff is so that"? >>>people doing current development, maintenance and usage willn> >>>learn based on my experience.  Do you think this is fucking= >>>pleasant for me?  Go find something out about people whose  >>>initials are JMF and TW.. >>>p >> wK >> I assume that you are JMF (jmf bah civ - whatever that decodes to).  TW   =a >l? >	JMF "bah" - bah humbug?  bah seems to be a placeholder... his-< >	tagline often says "subtract 104 for email" , i.e. - "civ"  @ It was a formal habit of developers to put their initials in theB SUBTTL line of any modules they modified.  JMF and TW are probablyA in every TOPS-10 monitor module that shipped in the 6-series and y= 7-series monitors.  I believe that /BAH only occurs in CUSPs.s- I don't remember writing any monitor patches.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:43:50 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k3v4$7dl$4@bob.news.rcn.net>s  K In article <RUBBISHegf-BF41AC.14062704042002@ultranet-reader.news.rcn.net>, 1    Ed Fortmiller <RUBBISHegf@ultranet.com> wrote:p <snip>  , >http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/images/TWJMF.jpg >z( >JMF is on the left and TW on the right. >-
 'ey, Ed.  :-)@   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.v   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:44:56 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k416$7dl$5@bob.news.rcn.net>   3 In article <uB1r8.1896$fL6.37767@news.cpqcorp.net>,w9    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:z > # >Ed Fortmiller wrote in message ...e >>> >0K >>> > I assume that you are JMF (jmf bah civ - whatever that decodes to).  o TW >= >>>hA >>> JMF "bah" - bah humbug?  bah seems to be a placeholder... his:> >>> tagline often says "subtract 104 for email" , i.e. - "civ" >>>. >>> Robr >>- >>http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/images/TWJMF.jpgm >>) >>JMF is on the left and TW on the right.> >> >wI >That doesn't really help me much, other than to say they like 10/20's - t ando$ >that neither one is Tiger Woods ;-)  ; JMF also did Alpha code.  You might look in those listings.d; I don't know what the habits of VMS were w.r.t. attributes.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.e   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:47:18 GMT) From: jmfbahciv@aol.com   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k45j$7dl$6@bob.news.rcn.net>l  3 In article <Ng2r8.1898$fL6.37836@news.cpqcorp.net>, 9    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  <snip>  I >Interesting list.  I know Dawn Banks, and John Hallyburton - both ex-VMSrF >developers and both recently worked with my wife (John is now back inD >VMS)... plus I know the names of a few others, and/or have had some0 >professional interactions with a couple others. >   B Those are two very good people to ask about JMF and TW.  It's good$ to hear that they're still around.     /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:52:52 GMTp From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k4g2$7dl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>n  - In article <YEWAYfeCuutq@cuebid.zko.dec.com>, 3    brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote:eF >In article <a8hvue$bsn$9@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:6 >> In article <Bl_q8.1867$fL6.37612@news.cpqcorp.net>,L >>>So I lack style points in debating.  I can't fix that.  But I can fix it  inE >>>the future by really-truly trying to ignore the poison debate, by   turningFG >>>off the sound - even if that means potentially missing something of A "real"
 >>>substance.w >>>hJ >>>He knows how to contact me if he has a technical problem he wants help  >> on... >> uF >> He's not going to trust your technical expertise.  You've exhibitedA >> none in this thread.  Actually, you've exhibited the opposite.r >TD >Fred doesn't need anyone to defend him, but before anyone questionsH >his technical ability, it might be useful to know how many patents you  own. >oA >We're engineers; we have little-to-no say in how the corporationn >markets/promotes/sells VMS.    B Sigh!  I _know_.  Why do you think I'm talking about backups plansB A-Z?  I've been through it before you.  I can see where the biz is@ going based on the idiocies coming out of the mouths of CEOs and their immediate underlings.w  4 > ...We innovate when given the chance (e.g Galaxy),K >and wish we had more folks to take on some projects that always fall belowt- >the line (larger DCL buffer size, etc...).  i! >It may surprise the audience,buto4 >we're as passionate about VMS as the customer base;  @ You wouldn't have passionate customers if you weren't passionate about the product.     > many of the new engineersrF >in the last couple of years have been former customers and posters to
 >comp.os.vms., >eJ >We read the complaints that are posted here by the hour; in a 200-someoddK >group, I'm sure that you could find folks here that agree with much of the I >complaining.  We want to see VMS succeed; our heads are not in the sand,iC >but you give us way too much credit if you think we can alter the h	 company'ss< >perception of VMS.  If VMS is profitable, we'll be around.   @ TOPS-10 was profitable; it just didn't go on the books that way.  ! > .. It's (probably) that simple.n >c> It should be that simple.  You're working for a bunch that has PC-itis, AFAICT.   /BAH   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 10:03:39 GMTa From: jmfbahciv@aol.comp  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8k549$7dl$9@bob.news.rcn.net>    In article  E <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204041239110.18315-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>,U/    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:e+ >On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:4K >> I assume that you are JMF (jmf bah civ - whatever that decodes to).  TW i =sF >> Tiger Woods?  But I'm not quite sure what it is I'm supposed to be  looking L >> for.  I don't want to make anything unpleasant for you.   I have no idea  whot >> you are.  >hI >The appalling ignorance of youth.  And arrogant (judging by his habit ofe+ >calling customers "morons") youth at that.m >eH >I suggest that he takes the time to find out who JMF, TW, and BAH were.H >He might learn something about his employer's history before he get hisJ >pink slip, and in turn learn some life lessons that have eluded him up to >now.q >tJ >Hint: JMF, TW, and BAH were not TOPS-20 developers.  At least that wasn'tI >their primary responsibility, nor why they were remembered, nor why theyw- >were respected as gods (yes, BAH, you too!).e  D Good grief!  Mark.  I wasn't in any way a god.  I only greased their= axles before they were due to squeak.  Why do you think I got- the den mother label?2   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.o   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 10:12:14 GMTS From: jmfbahciv@aol.comf  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX, Message-ID: <a8k5kc$7dl$10@bob.news.rcn.net>  3 In article <P_0r8.1887$fL6.37519@news.cpqcorp.net>, 9    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: ' >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message ... 5 >>In article <Bl_q8.1867$fL6.37612@news.cpqcorp.net>,s >>@ >>Look.  The only reason I'm talking about this stuff is so that> >>people doing current development, maintenance and usage will= >>learn based on my experience.  Do you think this is fuckingo< >>pleasant for me?  Go find something out about people whose >>initials are JMF and TW. >> >LJ >I assume that you are JMF (jmf bah civ - whatever that decodes to).  TW =K >Tiger Woods?  But I'm not quite sure what it is I'm supposed to be lookingHJ >for.  I don't want to make anything unpleasant for you.   I have no idea  whol	 >you are.   @ They were _the_ TOPS-10 system experts.  TW (Tony Wachs) usually@ did the device and controller drivers plus the file system.  JMF= was the CPU and memory management expert.  They were the only>> two people who stayed around throughout all of the developmentA years of TOPS-10.  TW and JMF did DEC's first SMP implementation.>> When they went to a DECUS, the customers liked to talk to them< because they knew everything about the hard/software system,5 including the operating systems they did not develop.      <snip>  J >>>BTW - I don't know many "developers" who read these conferences... theyK >>>waste too much time.  But I'm certainly glad I'm not someplace where it   isJ >>>acceptable to be beaten ;-)  Of course, I'm not quite sure who emoticon >>is.o >>C >>Beating was the least painful punishment ;-).  If you got JMF and 0 >>TW pissed off, they could really screw you up. >> > H >Really?  I really am not into physical punishment these days.  I don't  knowI >who JMF is (hmm,  This implies it's not you) or TW is (unless it's Tiger>H >Woods - who I don't want pissed at me) - and I don't want either of you> >pissed at me.  Let me know what I can do to apologize to you.    I was kidding in a serious way.  >wA >>If you were a den mother and they wanted to play, you might notY4 >>never be able to login on you stand alone machine.  K >My daughter isn't in the Girl Scouts.  And when my standalone machine getsoK >hacked, I'll be the first one to tell the FBI that I have no idea who JMF, @ >TW or BAH are.  I'm not looking to somehow get you pissed off.   D You're not pissing me off; you're getting me frustrated.  Ask JQH or? Dawn who there people were.  They could spend hours telling you  stories.   > .. If you  thinklE >that somehow HP, Compaq, Mike or Carly are doing something to repeathG >history - please let them know.  Because I didn't cancel the DEC20, oruJ >Alpha, or cuase or propose the Compaq merger with DEC or with HP.  I just/ >write code, and try to keep the wolves at bay.d  @ And I'm trying to teach you how to be effective at keeping those wolves at bay.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:35:06 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX3 Message-ID: <9Qhr8.1929$fL6.39083@news.cpqcorp.net>@  & jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message ...D >In article <e60r8.226429$2q2.20131295@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,/ >   "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:r >>L >><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:a8hvue$bsn$9@bob.news.rcn.net...7 >>> In article <Bl_q8.1867$fL6.37612@news.cpqcorp.net>,c= >>>    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:e >> >>.... >>K >>> >He knows how to contact me if he has a technical problem he wants helpw	 >>> on...i >>>tG >>> He's not going to trust your technical expertise.  You've exhibitedyB >>> none in this thread.  Actually, you've exhibited the opposite.* >>> OS experts can read between the lines. >>: >>Not apparently in this case.  Fred's technical expertise >>is just fine - it'scC >>in the wider world that his analytical ability falls a bit short.s >f> >Sorry.  I may have used bad terminology.  A great part of the@ >expertise in my area was based on being able to think about the? >customer _before_ generating bits.  I knew a lot of people whohC >could generate a lot of bits but, if they didn't provide computing C >service that the customers could use, they were essentially randomsE >bits.  Operating system development is not all programming.  There's B >a lot more involved.  That's what I was talking about.  ListeningB >to the customer was crucial to this biz.  Now, this does not meanE >that the customer was correct in what he was saying.  A lot of times F >he wasn't because he was presenting a solution rather than describingD >a problem.  A good part of being an expert OS developer is figuringD >out the problem using what the customer said and then extrapolatingE >it to a general solution.  Solving one customer's problem was rarelyr >a solution for all customers. >.  A Actually, as someone who didn't come straight out of college into:L engineering, you are preaching to the wrong cookie.  I started at DEC (afterK being a customer) as a SW specialist, dealing with customers every day, and9C wondering what alternate universe the O/S developers were living innI (figuring they MUST be smarter than I am, so I must be too slow to figure.J out why they were smoking dope when they designed things).  I got to watchL the high priesthoods - the TOPS people, the RSX people, the VMS people.  All6 of them smart, and arrogant.  NIH was invented at DEC.  I What you have stepped into is a morass of a handful of upset people - andeH some of them rightly so - who in their frustration start flames to vent.L Nobody reading this is in any position to address any of their concerns.  WeG can "try" to assure them, but they have no reason to believe us, and noiH trust or liking of Compaq or HP management.  The thread here, where I amH being lambasted for making a thoughtless comment - is a case in point ofD something that will (has) served to generate many, many replies, andL eventually will degenerate into Mark Crispen or someone like him calling VMSA stupid, and VMS people defending it.  The note was designed to beu/ inflamitory, as many of the recent threads are.g  K Frankly, I generally read this group to either offer answers to questions ItI have the answers to, or to forward questions when I dont.  But the last 6iG months in particular have become a losing battle to persuade (well thateH failed a long time ago) a small and vocal group about the future of VMS.  K I have two choices here, because I can't always just let something pass.  IoK can stop reading this group completely - and I don't want to do that.  Or IpI can selectively filter it so that I don't see something that I can't stope7 myself from responding to.  It's a weakness, a disease.a  J When I first started at DEC, I did a residency at a customer site.  Once aI month or so, the customer had the salesman in, and he just plain torturedtE the guy.  Called him names, made him go on rock fetches, and when thekK salesman left - he would laugh his ass off.  Seems that he knew that he was.K the one in control, that the salesman would take almost anything as long as H he kept buying.  I have a lot of admiration for the salesmans ability toJ just sit there and take it.  I know that *I* don't have what it would takeH to do the same.  Sometimes it's hard to remember to always act like thatD salesman - not like an acedemic (the people who act the worst on theJ internet for the most part), or like that customer - who knows that at anyH time he gets to win any "discussion".  That this is *not* some BOF where% open and honest discourse can be had.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 15:10:11 GMT.( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX1 Message-ID: <a8keoj$vrl$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>t  G In article <a8k4g2$7dl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:tA >TOPS-10 was profitable; it just didn't go on the books that way.   9 And if Bill's right, they pulled the same stunt on Alpha.    -- a@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:32:34 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAXP Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204050830400.30075-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>  + On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:zF > Good grief!  Mark.  I wasn't in any way a god.  I only greased their? > axles before they were due to squeak.  Why do you think I gott > the den mother label?o  I Sorry, Barb, you can't escape the designator of "god".  A lot more people-J hacked CUSPs than hacked monitor code, and everybody who hacked CUSPs knew
 about BAH.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc.F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:23:17 +0200LE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>c# Subject: Re: Is AMD doing an Intel?w+ Message-ID: <3CAD5EF5.9B02659E@mediasec.de>6  J > I think you get called with R3 and R4 loaded from the fork block, and R5 > pointing to the fork block.p  K ...which is just the same as VAX/VMS, IIRC. Are R0/R1 available for scratch E computations? How do you reign in the C compiler in its register use?i   	Jan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:38:27 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> # Subject: Re: Is AMD doing an Intel?h3 Message-ID: <iThr8.1930$fL6.39119@news.cpqcorp.net>-  E Jan C. Vorbrggen wrote in message <3CAD5EF5.9B02659E@mediasec.de>...aK >> I think you get called with R3 and R4 loaded from the fork block, and R5m >> pointing to the fork block. >rL >...which is just the same as VAX/VMS, IIRC. Are R0/R1 available for scratchF >computations? How do you reign in the C compiler in its register use? >e  L Ultimately, any register used has to be saved on Alpha.  This may or may notK be true on IA64, depending on the final design.  You can't really limit theMG C complier, you just have to rely on the fact that it will save/restoreDJ registers.  But few drivers are in C, and only one that I know of entirely in C.u   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:01:21 -0800. From: willirl@usa.net (Richard)w- Subject: Re: Java exec env value not working? = Message-ID: <9dbe34c3.0204050701.43641a2f@posting.google.com>   A I did call Compaq support on this and Rick's answer is one of the-B results.   Rick tells me that "Colin" is supposed to reply to this@ thread and explain what Digital - whoops Compaq Java engineering thinks of all this.a   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 09:58:37 -0800" From: willirl@usa.net (Richard)o- Subject: Re: Java exec env value not working? = Message-ID: <9dbe34c3.0204050958.24776206@posting.google.com>   E OK. I actually had to read stuff and look up stuff but here is what Is found.  B When execev creates the subprocess it uses lib$spawn.  By default,> lib$spawn creates the new process CLI with all the symbols and! logicals from the parent process.   F The Java Runtime exec(prog, env) is calling a Compaq routine (right?).?  That called routine (the one that calls execve) could take the B incoming env argument and make multiple calls to lib$set_logical. F This would then allow the program/com to work about like Unix and Win.  F I am suggesting that the Java team consider this as a possible change.   Richard-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:27:26 +0100c- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>$3 Subject: KZPBA -> HSZ70 : "transport timeout" error61 Message-ID: <3CADB44E.DCA23CF1@BlueBubble.UK.Com>l   Gentle people,  D I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding exactly what is causingF the problems described below.  I'd very much appreciate any assistance on this.   Thanks in advance,  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.      	 Scenario:n  : 3-site cluster (third site is used for a quorum node only)  A Site A:  2 x 8400 with *lots* of disks on HSZ70's, using multiple  KZPBA'sd  (i.e. rebadged Qlogic ISP-1040).  ? Site B: 2 x 8400 with exactly the same configuration as site A.-  + Multiple FDDI rings connecting all 3 sites.2  C Host-based volume shadowing with shadow members split between sitesV (lotss of shadow sets).  C VMS 7.2-1 with up-to-date patch kits (all Rating 1 kits installed). ' HSZ70's running latest version of HSOF.o    H Quite often, at times of heavy I/O activity, the 2 nodes hosting certain  D shadow sets, will log hundreds of errors against the PKI0 controllerD (see below). It's always PKI (never PKA to PKH, or PKJ to PKL, thereC are 12 controllers on each), and both nodes log the errors on their D respective PKI device).  If it were a single SCSI controller playingF up, I'm sure I wouldn't see the same thing happening on all *4* nodes.  F What I'm trying to comprehend is the exact meaning (and ultimately, ofE course, the cause and resolution) of the error message.  Here are twonF samples (nodes George and Ringo are site A, John and Paul are site B):     Sample from GEORGE:d  & Logging OS                  1. OpenVMS$ System Architecture         2. Alpha" OS version                  V7.2-1" Event sequence number       22867.0 Timestamp of occurrence     03-APR-2002 13:30:24- Time since reboot           17 Day(s) 9:37:57o" Host name                   GEORGE  2 System Model                AlphaServer 8400 5/625  = Entry Type                  98. Asynchronous Device Attentionh     ---- Device Profile ----' Unit                        GEORGE$PKI0w9 Product Name                ISP1020/1040 PCI-SCSI Adaptero   ----- SCSI Port -----c Long Word Count      x00000005 Error Log Revision         x016 Error Type               x060B  0x0B, Controller Error7                                 0x06, Transport Timeoutn SCSI ID                    x01   Command Length             x06 Command & Data                            x08                            x00                            xB0                            x34                            x01                            x00  2 SCSI Status                xFF  No Status Received   ----- Software Info -----c/ UCB$x_ERTCNT               1. Retries Remainings/ UCB$x_ERTMAX               0. Retries Allowablem IRP$Q_IOSB   x0000000000000000& UCB$x_STS            x00000010  Online/ IRP$L_PID            x00000000  Requestor "PID"O0 IRP$x_BOFF                   0. Byte Page Offset8 IRP$x_BCNT                   0. Transfer Size In Byte(s)0 UCB$x_ERRCNT                 2. Errors This Unit/ UCB$L_OPCNT                642. QIO's This Unit-* ORB$L_OWNER          x00010004  Owners UIC) UCB$L_DEVCHAR1       x0C440000  Availableu-                                 Error Loggingk0                                 Capable of Input1                                 Capable of Outputs       Sample from RINGO:  & Logging OS                  1. OpenVMS$ System Architecture         2. Alpha" OS version                  V7.2-1! Event sequence number       2982. 0 Timestamp of occurrence     03-APR-2002 13:30:36- Time since reboot           17 Day(s) 9:37:45 ! Host name                   RINGOi  2 System Model                AlphaServer 8400 5/625  = Entry Type                  98. Asynchronous Device Attentiong     ---- Device Profile ----& Unit                        RINGO$PKI09 Product Name                ISP1020/1040 PCI-SCSI Adapter,   ----- SCSI Port -----  Long Word Count      x00000006 Error Log Revision         x016 Error Type               x060B  0x0B, Controller Error7                                 0x06, Transport Timeoute SCSI ID                    x03   Command Length             x0A Command & Data                            x2A                            x00                            x00                            x40                            xF4                            x84                            x00  2 SCSI Status                xFF  No Status Received   ----- Software Info ------1 UCB$x_ERTCNT                 1. Retries Remaining21 UCB$x_ERTMAX                 0. Retries AllowableR IRP$Q_IOSB   x0000000000000000& UCB$x_STS            x00000010  Online/ IRP$L_PID            x00000000  Requestor "PID">0 IRP$x_BOFF                   0. Byte Page Offset8 IRP$x_BCNT                   0. Transfer Size In Byte(s)0 UCB$x_ERRCNT                 1. Errors This Unit/ UCB$L_OPCNT                649. QIO's This Unitt* ORB$L_OWNER          x00010004  Owners UIC) UCB$L_DEVCHAR1       x0C440000  Available -                                 Error Loggingh0                                 Capable of Input1                                 Capable of OutputT   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:46:08 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i! Subject: Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMSb3 Message-ID: <3nCzP5ZKLq69@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  [ In article <3CAD0A91.CF37E1EF@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:T > Neil Rieck wrote:y >>  O >> MACRO-32 (for VAX) didn't require a license. MACRO-64 (for Alpha) required ao' >> license for a while but is now free.> >>  A >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#macro64f > E > Actually, Macro64 still requires a license. However, the license ist > freely available.e  < Macro64 requires a license _PAK_, which is freely available.  B _Any_ software requires a _license_, unless you wrote it yourself.B That includes Freeware.  A license might even be verbal, but it is	 required.c   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 05:52:24 -0800' From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)> Subject: Memory Corruption= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0204050552.40eee8a4@posting.google.com>t   Hi,   4 I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem.  A I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebug D version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, I am< thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction?  ? Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeorya corruption in a program.  6 I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3.   Thanks,n   Wing   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 11:38:09 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Memory Corruption3 Message-ID: <XT6hOJqfNSEZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <873e96d6.0204050552.40eee8a4@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes:r > Hi,e > 6 > I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem. > C > I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebugtF > version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, I am> > thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction? > A > Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeoryi > corruption in a program.  B Typically those symptoms indicate a variable on the stack which isB not being specifically initialized to an acceptable value (zero is@ a commonly assumed value that is left out of an initialization).   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 06:53:54 -0800-6 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) Subject: Old LPS17 booting= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0204050653.33bd9d09@posting.google.com>V   Hi,s  @ I have an old LPS17 printer, which I understnad used to boot offC OpenVMS. Is there anyway to get it to boot off a Windows platform ?n   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:07:46 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Old LPS17 booting- Message-ID: <0033000059029632000002L022*@MHS>>  H =0AThis is strictly from memory but I think that LPS17s only have an AU= I>A (DB15-style Ethernet) interface and they only booted from VMS vias the MOP protocol.   D THE FOLLOWING IS HYPOTHETICAL AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE DO IT, OR DONE IT MYSELF---   F You ****might**** be able to find the I/O board from a LaserJet of theH proper flavor 3Si? 4Si? and if it will fit there might be a possibility=   that you could get it to work.   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETm$ Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:53 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: Old LPS17 booting     Hi,t  @ I have an old LPS17 printer, which I understnad used to boot offC OpenVMS. Is there anyway to get it to boot off a Windows platform ?    Thanks Andrew=e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:05:55 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 , Message-ID: <a8jstn$1m60@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  Z "Paul Sture" <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in message news:3CAD4D2A.37C51F80@bluewin.ch...   > > DECwrite uses it.c > >h1 > And refuses to run after an upgrade to VMS 7.3:  >p8 > %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image XDPS$DPSLIBSHR' > -CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not foundu6 > $1$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE;  K Fortunately, Compaq did the write thing and rebuilt it without DPS support.r DECwrite 3.1A is supposedly OK.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:39:42 -0500t1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 2 Message-ID: <3CADB72E.ADFE4859@clarityconnect.com>   Notes also used it.h   Carl Perkins wrote:i > b > In article <3CAC46FB.49041B9@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes... > }JF Mezei wrote: > }> > }> Robert Deininger wrote:P > }> > There haven't been big functionaly changes in VMS on the VAX side betweenO > }> > V7.1 and V7.3.  You aren't likely to stumbing into any problems with theo > }> > upgrade.  > }>S > }> 7.3 drops support for display postscript. So for workstations, you should stopa > }> at 7.2-2. > }rK > }Out of curiosity, what do you use display postscript for?  I ask becausey5 > }my workstation is at V7.3 and I haven't missed it., > }n > }Mark Berryman > L > As far as I can tell, the one and only thing that comes with VMS that usesH > it is the CDA Viewer which you can use to view postscript documents onB > screen. (I have used this maybe a dozen times in the last year.) > L > There might be something else (Bookreader? Does convert/document use it toL > produce the postscript output when converting to postscript?) but I am notG > certain of anything else, that either comes with VMS or is an add-on,sG > that actually uses it. Somebody else can probably come up with a few.  > 
 > --- Carl   --  C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYa0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:25:29 +01004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk># Subject: OT Re: British Summer TimeeB Message-ID: <1018002559.15769.0.nnrp-14.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  < "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message) news:uaqnfvt9022s73@news.supernews.com...e2 > British Summertime - Isn't that an Oxymoron ????  < Over 80F here in the office, though not as hot as yesterday. Sunny outside, too.u# It might even last to the weekend !h   Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:34:47 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: OT Re: British Summer Times) Message-ID: <3CAD8BD7.A5DA9173@127.0.0.1>t   Chris Sharman wrote: > > > "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message+ > news:uaqnfvt9022s73@news.supernews.com...p4 > > British Summertime - Isn't that an Oxymoron ???? > > > Over 80F here in the office, though not as hot as yesterday. > Sunny outside, too. % > It might even last to the weekend !n  9 Yes Chris, make the most of it, this _is_ our summer. :-)-   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 00:17:37 -0800@, From: sanface@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) Subject: PLUG: jpg2pdf 2.4= Message-ID: <18712ccd.0204050017.1d6eee4c@posting.google.com>d  / We would like to announce jpg2pdf 2.4 version. h# http://www.sanface.com/jpg2pdf.htmlaE jpg2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful PERL5 scriptWD that converts a collection of jpeg images to a PDF album, so you can? use it in every operating systems supported by PERL5, including-B OpenVMS. If you prefer we also distribute executables for Windows,% Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Mac OS X.IF Please note that the Windows version comes with an extra tool known as Visual jpgt2pdf.   What's new in this version  D New linear option or inside your configuration file: list. With thisA new option you can specify a list file with inside a list of yourk+ input textual files (one entry every line).l   Test jpg2pdf 2.4!,6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/jpg2pdf.html   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:09:24 -0000e= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>o2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it5 Message-ID: <20020405070924.3199.qmail@gacracker.org>-  A On Thu, 04 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:o >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: ><9 >> The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.t >> ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.B   <snip>  ? >Are you not tempting fate with that Sig just before PGP stuff?h  @ Dunno, care to explain a bit more why it would be tempting fate?  H BTW, apologies for the PGP sig. I used the wrong template for posting, I/ usually don't PGP-sign messages to comp.os.vms.i     Doc. -- J6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 10:00:36 GMT@ From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it+ Message-ID: <a8k4ui$7dl$8@bob.news.rcn.net>h  6 In article <20020404191645.14084.qmail@gacracker.org>,A    Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:R# >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----c >u, >On Thu, 04 Apr 02, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >s ><snip>  >?> >>You're losing your core customers.  When you lose university@ >>customers, you're not only losing today's revenue but the next< >>50 year's revenue because the kiddies are learning on your' >>competitor's soft/hardware platforms.r > I >To be honest, I've lost count of the number of times this point has been G >put across, that is, that without recent graduates with VMS experience0D >there will be nobody with a favourable attitude towards the OS in a) >decision-making position in 10-20 years.5  D We (TOPS-10) understood that point very well.  We, too, had to fightB a losing battle with a core management that did not understand anyC of it; their emphasis was on counting hardware sales.  We never didh? figure out how to beat it in their heads that hardware without -> software that works well is just a very expensive boat anchor.   >@G >As I run a shell service on VMS I get a fair cross-section of the moregI >computer-savvy public applying for accounts. More than half assume that h VMS K >is some obscure UN*X variant and think DCL is some proprietary UN*X shell.eI >That just shows what sort of market awareness we're dealing with. To say J >there is no problem is like refusing to accept you're in a desert becauseE >you've got your head buried in the sand. Compaq sure as hell haven't K >addressed this problem, and HP don't seem likely to when they haven't evenvK >mentioned VMS during all the merger hulabaloo. As a link to it was posted   I J >re-read the open letter to Curly, I find no fault with it and think Bill  isH >right, these were issues that should have been handled by the CEO. ThatG >they weren't speaks volumes to me about the senior management attitudeyH >towards VMS. Words from obviously pro-VMS people like Fred can't changeF >this, and I for one hope that whatever the outcome of the merger the  owners< >of VMS get a serious management shakeup in the near future. >iK >Anyway, all this negativity gets to people, myself included. To be honest,nH >I sometimes wonder why I even bother to continue reading the c.o.v. TheI >technical posts that are relevant to me are few and far between, and theAJ >political ruminations are predominantly negative. On days where there areF >over a hundred posts and I have 1/2 hour to read the group I start toI >wonder why I bother. I don't believe VMS is dead yet, but the nay-sayers C >are determined to portray it as such, and the yea-sayers have this K >infurating belief that there is no serious problem. Because of this I find1E >it difficult to see either side as credible. If someone can find the G >positive/negative switch for the newsgroup please toggle it to anotherd
 >position.< The political content will die down once everybody gets used> to the change.  You might try reading back issues of the pdp10= newsgroup chatter to figure out what to do about the current i
 situation.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.r   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:41:41 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <umhSIoWSUz2U@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  e In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-SzmxzI9qWHkx@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:oH > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:17:09 UTC, Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> > wrote: >  >>  K >> What stands out to me was the fact the fact that DEC's PC did not come a G >> floppy disk format program. You had to Buy DEC's pre-formated disks. / >> The weird floppy too I bet cost lots of $$$.l > H > Really? my Rainbow did - for both CP/M and, eventually, domessdos. Do  > you mean the VaxMate?h  F    The problem was on the Pro series.  No utility to format the disks.H    Some Pro series FAQs have quite a discussion about what you might use'    to format them under Windows, maybe.5   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:43:56 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <rYhr8.1931$fL6.39039@news.cpqcorp.net>    Bill Todd wrote in message ... > K >"Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message 1 >news:20020404191645.14084.qmail@gacracker.org...  >  >... >x >> If someone can find theI >> positive/negative switch for the newsgroup please toggle it to another  >> position. >r? >There's no mystery about where the switch is located:  it's at I >Michael.Capellas@Compaq.com.  Unfortunately, it hasn't worked for years,$ and I >there appears to be little likelihood of getting it replaced with a moree >effective one.$ >CE >People like Fred who exhort customers to run out and buy as many VMS  systems I >as they can afford in the hope that this will give the platform a betterWK >chance for a future are seriously confused about how commerce works:  it'suH >the *vendor* who needs to give *customers* the assurance of a product'sJ >future, not the reverse.  So when the vendor's top management clearly has noL >interest in the product, nor any interest in accepting customer suggestionsJ >for how to improve its revenue and profit, asking customers to hang on inF >the hope they won't be hung out to dry is - well, the most charitableL >characterization one can put on it is the one I did ("seriously confused"),F >but after sufficient repetitions in the face of clear explanations it reallyH >does begin to look much more like being self-serving ("I'd like to hang ontoL >this job a while longer:  won't you put your company's money on the line to >increase my chances?"). >I  G Hey, I've given you *my* assurance, but that isn't good enough for you.1I Fair enough.  However, your position is lets try and start a death-spiral D because your pissed off (although you have no stake in the outcome).  J Products are a success because people buy them.  If people are buying VMS,I it's a success, and there is nothing quite as nice as a success cycle and  positive re-enforcement.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:52:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it, Message-ID: <3CADC827.AE707C13@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:G > "As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,$H > onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing systemH > and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's OpenVMS > AlphaServer systems."f  9 Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:15:02 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>02 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <5akr8.1950$fL6.39055@news.cpqcorp.net>f  I Since this is the predictions thread, I'd like to predict that Andy (with-K his head where the SUN don't shine) will spontaniously combust while tryingeJ to bad mouth Linux, defend Sparc, spell VMS, and understand what a clusterL is ;-)  Most people won't notice it, becase a cache error will cause his SUNI server to keep reposting ROT13 versions of old posts - which will seem to  everyone to be normal chatter.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:46:22 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>cG Subject: Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attackse3 Message-ID: <J_hr8.1932$fL6.39161@news.cpqcorp.net>a  D Paul Repacholi wrote in message <874riqri95.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...4 >KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: >tE >> Here is where excellent and fortuitous engineering design comes to,F >> the rescue.  The Alpha memory management architecture provides someB >> bits in the Page Table Entries (PTEs) that control what type ofE >> access is allowed to memory.  For example, a read-only page can beeE >> protected by having the Fault-On-Write bit set, and any attempt to ? >> write the page causes a fault and results in a memory accessuG >> violation error.  Alpha also has a Fault-On-Execute bit, designed to G >> prevent an errant program from jumping off into the weeds and tryingaD >> to execute data as instructions.  On Alpha/VMS, the user stack isB >> mapped with PTEs that have the Fault-On-Execute bit set, so anyE >> attempt to branch into data area on the stack results in an access0# >> violation, and the process dies.p >o >Not on the itanic...  >u >c  ; You know something about the IA64 VMS design that we don't?m   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 03:27:15 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> % Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! / Message-ID: <uaqnsigg27uq65@news.supernews.com>n  J The intention of Biggy was meant to apply to 1GB Supersizing but I believe? "supersize" is a registered trademark of Macdonalds Corporationo  G We have been sued for using a trademark once already, so, of course, We  wouldn't dare to use one again.o  C To "biggy" is the same as to Supersize (tm) - without the trademarko infringements.  I Of course, I could go into the absolute pedant bashing mode, but I am toooG worried about getting the apostrophies in the wrong place to do so now.-    @ Anyway - I'll say it again - Biggy to 1GB for an additional $500  . Regards to all that don't pcik this post apart   David T7   -- Island Computers US Corp.2 2700 Gregory Streett Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332  International: 001 912 447 6622t  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.nett www.hpaq.net      8 David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message" news:02040320453100.05497@bwian...3 > On Wed,  3 Apr 2002 19:56, Larry Kilgallen wrote:jG > > In article <uakq55msc44t57@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)">! > <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:  > > > In stock > > > ) > > > DS10L New with 1 Yr Island Warranty  > > > 512MB Island Memoryt! > > > High Speed CDROM and Floppy  > > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > > > Dual IDE > > > Dual Serial Port > > >O/ > > > $1899 per system  (ship weight is 30Lb's)f > > > G > > > Or the same as above with 9GB SCSI Ultra 2 + Ctr and VMS Keyboardf $2499e > >tG > > Things have gotten considerably better than when I used to complainOK > > about irrelevant PC-related hardware pitches here from Island Software. A > > What have things come to when the only basis for complaint isf > > grammar... > > - > > > Biggy the memory for an additional $500  > >a > > ...or lack thereof :-) >I4 > Do you mean that should be "upsize the memory" :-)! > Would you like fries with that?a >r
 > Regards, > Dave.w > --K > David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com K > Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/-K > DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmwK > "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennonc   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:30:47 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>S% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!o/ Message-ID: <uargpbadepuf0e@news.supernews.com>$  K I think "Biggy" is a trademark of Wendy's.  You better call your lawyer. :)t  < "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message) news:uaqnsigg27uq65@news.supernews.com...2L > The intention of Biggy was meant to apply to 1GB Supersizing but I believeA > "supersize" is a registered trademark of Macdonalds Corporationc >oI > We have been sued for using a trademark once already, so, of course, We6! > wouldn't dare to use one again.y > E > To "biggy" is the same as to Supersize (tm) - without the trademarkR > infringements. >:K > Of course, I could go into the absolute pedant bashing mode, but I am tootI > worried about getting the apostrophies in the wrong place to do so now.s >t >hB > Anyway - I'll say it again - Biggy to 1GB for an additional $500 >p0 > Regards to all that don't pcik this post apart >-	 > David T  >t > -- > Island Computers US Corp.l > 2700 Gregory Streets > Savannah GA 31404k > Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332n! > International: 001 912 447 6622m" > Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 > dbturner@hpaq.neta > www.hpaq.net >a >s > : > David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message$ > news:02040320453100.05497@bwian...5 > > On Wed,  3 Apr 2002 19:56, Larry Kilgallen wrote: I > > > In article <uakq55msc44t57@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)"d# > > <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:t > > > > In stock > > > >m+ > > > > DS10L New with 1 Yr Island Warranty  > > > > 512MB Island Memoryn# > > > > High Speed CDROM and Floppy  > > > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > > > > Dual IDE > > > > Dual Serial Port > > > >m1 > > > > $1899 per system  (ship weight is 30Lb's)- > > > >aI > > > > Or the same as above with 9GB SCSI Ultra 2 + Ctr and VMS Keyboard9 > $2499  > > >:I > > > Things have gotten considerably better than when I used to complainaC > > > about irrelevant PC-related hardware pitches here from Islandm	 Software..C > > > What have things come to when the only basis for complaint is. > > > grammar... > > >n/ > > > > Biggy the memory for an additional $500@ > > >o > > > ...or lack thereof :-) > >t6 > > Do you mean that should be "upsize the memory" :-)# > > Would you like fries with that?F > >  > > Regards,	 > > Dave.  > > --5 > > David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmert dbsneddon@bigpond.comi > > Sneddo's quick guide ...' http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/  > > DBS freeware at ...s3 http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmuF > > "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon >  >I   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 11:13 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) % Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!O, Message-ID: <5APR200211135516@gerg.tamu.edu>  5 "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes... K }The intention of Biggy was meant to apply to 1GB Supersizing but I believeh@ }"supersize" is a registered trademark of Macdonalds Corporation } H }We have been sued for using a trademark once already, so, of course, We  }wouldn't dare to use one again. } D }To "biggy" is the same as to Supersize (tm) - without the trademark }infringements.4 } J }Of course, I could go into the absolute pedant bashing mode, but I am tooH }worried about getting the apostrophies in the wrong place to do so now. }  } A }Anyway - I'll say it again - Biggy to 1GB for an additional $500  } / }Regards to all that don't pcik this post apartr }  }David T   Regardless of the last line...  F You might check to see if "Biggy" is a trademark of the Wendy's chain.H They use it as the size of their largest drink and fries, and it is used) by them much like McD's uses "supersize".j  = What's wrong with "upgrade"? Or, for that matter, "increase"?s   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:36:08 -0600+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>e% Subject: RE: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!pJ Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178438C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu [mailto:carl@gerg.tamu.edu]  ? > What's wrong with "upgrade"? Or, for that matter, "increase"?   < You might find "upgrade" to be a trademark of microshaft. ;)   Chris-    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerb Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  't  >   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:21:05 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")! Subject: Re: Server Side Includesi8 Message-ID: <00A0BFC0.3D556064@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ^ In article <3cad15f6.1291485798@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) writes:F >On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 02:58:38 GMT, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) >wrote:  >p	 >>Hi All,j >>D >>I've been playing around with Server Side Includes on both my CSWSB >>(on OpenVMS Alpha) and WASD (on OpenVMS VAX) Web Servers and I'm0 >>coming unstuck on a number of inconsistencies. >>B >>First off, there seems to be several SSI directives that are not2 >>available on the CSWS Server (e.g. <!--#flastmodG >>file="dsa1:[www]shtml_1.shtml" --> will work on WASD but not on CSWS.2    D What's nailing you here is that CSWS (and OSU) restrict the file in O SSI statements with file="filespec" to being relative to the current directory.eN You can't move up the tree and you can't move to a different root. Want to get: your own last modification date?  file="my-filename.shtml"  I WASD doesn't inflict that restriction on you; you can get to any file thet8 webserver can get to (has appropriate privilege, etc).    L You can use the virtual="/URLpath" to get to any mapped file, so you should H be able to do <!-- #flastmod virtual="/shtml_1.shtml" --> (assuming yourJ root is mapped to your /www/ directory).  This will work in WASD, OSU, and CSWS.o  J (If you do an #include virtual of a CGI script, Apache will execute it andI stick the results into your output document; the CGI script path can even J include URL-encoded parameters in a query string, which is kind of cool.  @ But be careful if you were actually trying to include the file.)  O (Interestingly, all file access in WASD goes through the cache processor, which J takes paths as well as filespecs, so - if I read the code right - the file. and virtual tags end up doing the same thing.)       >>H >>The WASD and CSWS share the same UIC so there are no ownership issues.A >>And I know SSI is working on CSWS because some directives work.p >>G >>I've also found that the exec cmd SSI seems to funnction differently.oF >>The Command file I'm calling from the .shtml page formats the outputE >>with various html codes e.g. <TR> etc. On the CSWS Server this thenIE >>displays as I would hope, alas on the WASD Server the <TR> etc. areh  >>displayed as part of the text.     >>H >>So, anyone know of any CSWS documentation that actually lists what SSI >>directives can be used?m  L I've been having good luck with _Professional Apache_ from Wrox Press.  It'sL Unix-oriented, not VMS-oriented, but the design goal for CSWS appears to be F to be as compatible as possible with Apache on Unix while still takingL advantage of VMS features "under the hood."  If you buy it for this purpose,- be aware that only about a third is relevant.c  H You could also just go to www.apache.org, select the HTTP server, selectK documentation, select 1.3, and look at the SSI tutorial and the mod_includeu documentation.   >>F >>Anyone know of why WASD presents the data back from an exec cmd call= >>unhtml'ed? or if there are ways of modifying the behaviour?p   >>F >>Before suggestions are made as regards replacing Apache with WASD onF >>the Alphas or similar, the main exercise I'm doing here is trying toB >>learn more about Web Servers. So far I've learn't quite a lot as# >>regards html and shtml standards!l >>  I Basically what's happened is that the CERN and NCSA servers invented waysgG to do a few things, and those few things ended up in OSU and WASD years H ago.  (NCSA eventually became Apache, although it's more like at the DNAI level than in actual inheritance of code.) Then all three servers evolved-J semi-independently, pretty much as their developers either felt a need for> features or found things they'd be interested in playing with.   >>As always, thanks in advance.i >> >>Rob.E >Just a follow up, found that adding the type="text/html" to the execjG >cmd directive allowed the WASD Server to correctly display the output.7C >Alas, now the CSWS Server gives an error occurred while processing>C >directive error message but does still present the data correctly.mG >I guess it still comes down to trying to determine what SSI directivess" >are common between WASD and CSWS.  E If the content-type of an included/exec-ed file isn't text/html, WASDnG wraps the output in <PRE> </PRE> and you don't get your formatting tags H interpreted.  If you really want to make a cross-platform compatible SSIA document, the trick is not to use that tag, but instead in WASD's  HTTPD$MAP.CONF to    , SET /path-to-exec'ed-file  CONTENT=text/html  K which will set the content-type of the file.  Then leave out the type= tag.m      H I've been sorting out which directives are common between those two and J OSU.  The killer is that even when the directives are the same, the syntaxI or the semantics are different.   WASD adds a lot of extra functionality :K through additional tags in similar directives, which makes Apache complain, - although it does its best to keep processing.e  4 >Might have to wait for Alans book to hit the shops!  N You don't have to wait for the book to hit the shops, but don't let getting an5 answer now stop you from buying one when it does. :-)s   -- Alant    O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================h   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:23:31 -0800n1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)t Subject: Re: Technical Forums = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0204050723.5e9727f3@posting.google.com>   Y "Tim Johnson" <talk-lists2@civilnews.com> wrote in message news:<5063206@MVB.SAIC.COM>..., > You are invited to join... ...t > SewerTalku  F I'd been concerned about the amount of bad language in this ng lately.1  Now we've gotten the attention of some 'bot. :-)l. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:13:25 GMTs' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>oC Subject: useless URL, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... " Message-ID: <3cada2ea@zfree.co.nz>   Bill,a  . neither do I but the ISP adds it to all email.   Hans  2 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:% >In article <3caaec56$1@zfree.co.nz>,b+ > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes:i >|>  >|> Ah, well put!c >|> - >|> bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:-S >|> >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>e7 >|> wrote in message news:<3CA9DBCE.9080603@sun.com>...  >|> >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >|> >> C1 >|> >> > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: 	 >|> >> > u >|> >lD >|> >defcon10 is coming soon matey ... why not take one of your junkE >|> >slowaris boxes and put it up next to vms, give those poor stupid B >|> >defcon hackers a username and password, turn on all services,+ >|> >and we will see matey, we will see ...t >|>  >|>  >|>  >|> http://www.zfree.co.nz >|>  >-; >Afraid I don't see what that URL has to do with the topic.e >l >bille >k >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolveseE >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   |tB >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>          http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:55:32 +0200c- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>c% Subject: Re: Wanted: the VMS pedigreee' Message-ID: <3CADF325.4525759E@Free.fr>o   You may also have a look at   6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf   D.   Dirk Munk wrote: > C > On the wall of the corridor of our office my Unix colleagues havemF > sticked the pedigree of today's Unix versions (Tru64, Solaris, HP UXC > etc.) It looks a bit like the drawing of a very big railway yard.p > I > Of course we can't stay behind, and I would like to add the pedigree ofAI > VMS. Can anyone supply me with dates, products etc. ? Of course I woulduJ > also like to know the names of products on the side-tracks, for instance4 > DOS-11 > MS-Dos,  MS-Dos + VMS > Win-NT etc. :-) . > > > I suppose it will be a bit shorter, but it would look nice . > 
 > Regards, >  > Dirk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:37:29 GMTaL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")K Subject: Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?t8 Message-ID: <00A0BFC2.87F2805A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  S In article <a8jfe3$jlq$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:s= >What operating system was www.openvms.digital.com running ono= >September 22, 1998, the day that the OpenVMS home page read:i >nA >  "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"n >.+ >Was it OpenVMS, Digital Unix, or Windows ?6  " VMS (with the Purveyor webserver).   Why?   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================s0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056wM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 06:14:40 -0800o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Club; Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204050614.56667c@posting.google.com>p  p Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:c >  > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CA9D9AD.1070104@sun.com>... >tG > >>A GS320 is not equivalent to a Sun F15000, HP SuperDome or IBM P690.L > >>it just does not compare, CPU capacity, I/O bandwidth, memory, benchmarkK > >>results. For example a  Sun F6800 has better apps performance than the KL > >>GS320 as does an IBM P680. By virtually any measure you chose to use theC > >>GS320 is a mid range system by anyone elses standards (with the L > >>exception of SPECint and SPECfp) which no one uses to measure commercial > >>performance).M > >> > > E > > you mean running one alpha chip againset 128 sparc garbage chips?  > >  > @ > No much worse I mean running 24 SPARC chips against 32 Alpha's > guess which were faster ???t > * > Or 24 Power processors against 32 Alphas > guess which were faster ???  > ; > Your definition of garbage appears to be a smaller numbera7 > of CPU's of one type outperforming a larger number oft7 > CPU's of another type. By this definition Alpha's fitf" > the garbage category nicely :):) > 	 > Regardsa >  > Andrew Harrisona  ? what Alpha, the EV4?  You been hitting the sauce lately Andrew?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:38:22 +0100aT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clue& Message-ID: <3CADC4EE.7070407@sun.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:   I > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote in * > message news:3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com... >  >> >>Bob Ceculski wrote:r >> >>$ >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy >>>S? > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in messagee$ > news:<3CA9D9AD.1070104@sun.com>... >  >>>>Sue Skonetski wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>M >>>>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/enterprise_tco/enterprig >>>> > se_s >  >>>>>tco.pdfJ >>>>>Detailed comparison of the Total Cost of Ownership of four RISC-BasedG >>>>>Cluster Solutions Designed to Provide High Availability.  The four  >>>>>v	 > systems  > A >>>>>are Compaq OpenVMS , HP9000, IBM RS/6000 and Sun Enterprise.  >>>>>oC >>>>>Please note that this was not done by Compaq, but by Tech Wiseu >>>>>r > Research.n >  >>>>>Warm Regards, >>>>>I >>>>>Sue >>>>>e >>>>>tG >>>>A GS320 is not equivalent to a Sun F15000, HP SuperDome or IBM P690pL >>>>it just does not compare, CPU capacity, I/O bandwidth, memory, benchmarkJ >>>>results. For example a  Sun F6800 has better apps performance than theL >>>>GS320 as does an IBM P680. By virtually any measure you chose to use theC >>>>GS320 is a mid range system by anyone elses standards (with the L >>>>exception of SPECint and SPECfp) which no one uses to measure commercial >>>>performance).w >>>> >>>>D >>>you mean running one alpha chip againset 128 sparc garbage chips? >>>e >>>0 >>>4 >>@ >>No much worse I mean running 24 SPARC chips against 32 Alpha's >>guess which were faster ???5 >> > J > Which Alpha chip? EV68 1001MHz? And which Sparc chip? And what benchmark > were the systems run against?  >     ( Where would you like to start. Lets see.   Oracle Apps Standard Benchmark.i  D A 6800 with 24 x 750 Mhz Ultra III CPU's has ~25% better Oracle AppsE Standard banchmark throughput than a 32 CPU GS320 with 731 Mhz CPU's. A An IBM P680 with 24 CPU's is 10% faster than the GS320. Of course B the 1 GHz Alpha CPU's are out in the GS but Power 4 is out an evenA given the L2/L3 cache issues it appears to be 50% faster than the F processor in the P680. Sun has also moved from 750 to 900 with about a 25% performance bump.h   TPC-C   5 P680 24 x 750 Mhz 220,000 TPC-C TPM (No OPS in a box).< GS320 32 x 1 GHz 230,000 TPC-C TPM (OPS in a box so multiply# result by .6 to get a real number).   9 Moral victory to IBM for a pretty worthless benchmark, no 5 OPS fewer CPU's and a result thats too close to call.   
 SAP R4 2 Tier-  % Sun F15K 76 CPU's 4100 users SAP 4.6Ce  ) Compaq GS320 32 CPU's 2720 users SAP 4.0bn  2 Ohh looks like Alphas not doing too badly but then/ SAP 4.6 uses 1.7 x the CPU resource of 4 so youu2 are actually comparing 6970 with 2720 so again the6 SPARC CPU's are actually delivering better throughput.5 per CPU and this is before you factor out the out the 7 scalability. Incedentally this is also true for the IBMa boxes as well.   TPC-H:  6 Compaq havn't bothered with a big box TPC-H number for0 the GS320 they have done the 300 GB test and not the 1 and 3 TB.s  ; But Compaq GS320 32 x 731 Mhz CPU's gets 4951 QphH (300 GB)z- Sun F6800 24 x 750 Mhz CPU's 4735 QphH (1 TB)d/ Sun F15000 72 x 900 Mhz CPU's 18802 QphH (1 TB)e  7 There are no other results of note for the GS320 excepte SPECint and SPECfp.t  6 I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to if this9 supports the claim that the GS320 is in the same class as 5 a F15K or if it in fact is equivalent to a Sun F6800.e  5 Incedentally if anyone thinks that this reflects somen; sudden deterioration in Compaqs high end server performance 9 relative to other vendors think again. This is the statust7 quo its been like this since the 8400 started becomminge5 uncompetitive which was about a year into its producti life.y     Regardsa Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:43:57 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... 3 Message-ID: <8IosiJWJi8Vh@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  \ In article <3CACD6F8.DB80E778@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > N > 1- HP hasn't gone thorugh the VAX-Alpha migration.  So it isn't a given that  > HP will know how to handle it.  C    HP has gone through the "absorb Apollo" and the 68000 to HP-PARCrH    transitions.  They dropped the old systems a lot faster than DEC did,0    and still quite a bit faster than Compaq has.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 06:37:11 -0800o. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...r= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0204050637.78346148@posting.google.com>a  p "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<Mu8r8.1917$fL6.38118@news.cpqcorp.net>...> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CAD08EA.E72C383E@fsi.net...c > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > >.F > > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message2 >  news:<NzZq8.1865$fL6.37332@news.cpqcorp.net>...H > > > > Ah, sorry.  There was a metaphoric "her" - "the morally bankrupt
 >  tramp".  > [lots of, uh, well, you don't want to read it again, omitted]   H > What was the part of the metaphor that dealt with being a tramp (and aN > morally bankrupt one at that)?  I'm almost up to speed now.  Bear with me, I1 > couldn't follow the plot of Eraser Head either.h    B Wasn't that the weirdest movie? Why all the moving-in shots of theF hissing radiator? Just plain strange I guess. I saw around 1982. Don't remember much about it.i    (BTW, it's one word: Eraserhead)     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanc" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:27:17 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...t3 Message-ID: <ktjr8.1946$fL6.39271@news.cpqcorp.net>p    Alan E. Feldman wrote in message4 <343f30ae.0204050637.78346148@posting.google.com>...A >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messageo/ news:<Mu8r8.1917$fL6.38118@news.cpqcorp.net>... ? >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messaget$ >> news:3CAD08EA.E72C383E@fsi.net... >> > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:  >> > >G >> > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messagef3 >>  news:<NzZq8.1865$fL6.37332@news.cpqcorp.net>...tI >> > > > Ah, sorry.  There was a metaphoric "her" - "the morally bankrupth >>  tramp".o >s> >[lots of, uh, well, you don't want to read it again, omitted] >dI >> What was the part of the metaphor that dealt with being a tramp (and a>I >> morally bankrupt one at that)?  I'm almost up to speed now.  Bear with  me, I 2 >> couldn't follow the plot of Eraser Head either. >k > C >Wasn't that the weirdest movie? Why all the moving-in shots of theeG >hissing radiator? Just plain strange I guess. I saw around 1982. Don'tu >remember much about it. >e! >(BTW, it's one word: Eraserhead)  >s  J Yeah, I tried twice.  Never made it though it.  But it explains why I alsoE hated twin peaks.  I went through a phase of watching bizzare offbeatWI movies - Liquid Sky, Eating Raul, and other strange junk.  Of course, I'd / rather watch Eraserhead again than Blue Velvet.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 11:07:13 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...g, Message-ID: <3CADCBB0.5B9F0794@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:E >    HP has gone through the "absorb Apollo" and the 68000 to HP-PARC J >    transitions.  They dropped the old systems a lot faster than DEC did,2 >    and still quite a bit faster than Compaq has.  M How much of that experience is left at HP ? I suspect that Carly may not evena; know that Apollo was a computer company, not a rocket ship.f   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 07:55:31 -0600g- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)e3 Message-ID: <782SP7j8ZCTQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3CAD26C4.49E4C155@earthlink.net>, ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> writes: $ >       1     882         *x = 0x00;   > when run produces: >  > $ r x  > xyzzy!O > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=00000208,  > PC=0000024F, PSL=03C00000h1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followseN > module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PC > O > X               main                              882      00000033  0000024Fw  E    OK, so you've shown that NOWRT on the $CODE$ section is enforced. gE    VMS has always enforced NOWRT on psects.  The hardware supports itv=    and the linker and image activator conspire to make it so.r  E    I keep seeing claims that NOEXE is also enforced.  I've never seendG    any support for this in either the VAX or Alpha architectures.  LINKr+    just uses NOEXE as an optimization hint.c  F    You have proof that NOEXE is enforced?  If so, I'll stop working on"    my demonstration that it isn't.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.188 ************************