1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 06 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 189       Contents: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS Re: Alphaserver 1000a Problem  Bill Gates "big" mistake ...  Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ... Re: Blade architectures 3 C++ Programming problem - was Re: Memory Corruption - Re: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ?? ? Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...  CMS library repair; Re: Could increasing kernel stack size improve performance?  DCL command procedure  Re: DCL command procedure  Re: DCL command procedure  Re: DCL command procedure 1 FA: Digital Systems & Options Catalog, April 1998 + RE: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board + Re: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board + Re: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  RE: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX D Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest) Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS Re: Memory Corruption  Re: Memory Corruption  Re: Memory Corruption  Re: Memory Corruption  Re: Old LPS17 booting ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it P Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the CompaqP Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Co> Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks> Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!# Re: vms hobbyist licenseing problem  Re: Wanted: the VMS pedigreeB Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?B Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?P Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:29:02 -0500 > From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheon@NOSPAMcompaq.com># Subject: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <3CADFAFE.68F53D6C@NOSPAMcompaq.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  k > In article <3C9F49DD.29AB7480@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:  > > Bob Koehler wrote:n > >> In article <3C9B50A5.F49DD68D@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: > >> > Good news.  > >> > > >> > For those that use Ada. > >>K > >>    Nope.  A lot of users are heavily tied to DEC Ada (83?).  Moving to ) > >>    GNAT is going to be a major cost.  > > 	 > > Hmmm.  > > 6 > > Would they not have to migrate from Ada83 to Ada95" > > at some point in time anyway ? > B > No.  Ada95 introduces dynamic dispatching and other capabilities@ > that may be forbidden to those writing certain safety-critical? > applications.  I understand there is a SPARK subset for Ada95 @ > as well, but for someone to want to move to Ada95 there should > be a reason. > A > This is not just a matter of personal desire -- it is perfectly C > reasonable for someone to use DEC Ada for some projects and Ada95  > for other projects.   4 Sorry - I didn't see the beginning of this stream...  f GNAT Pro on OpenVMS Alpha has many Compaq Ada features added to it (pragmas, etc).  Compaq and ACT arei interested if there are major areas where GNAT and Compaq Ada aren't compatible - other than command line  interfaces to the product.  i Also, GNAT has an "83" command line option.  It may not have full support, but it should help limit 83/95  issues.    GNAT  	   COMPILE        /83            /NO83 (D)          /83   E        Although GNAT is primarily an Ada 95 compiler, it accepts this M        qualifier to specify that an Ada 83 mode program is being compiled. If M        you specify this qualifier, GNAT rejects Ada 95 extensions and applies         Ada 83 semantics.       ...   $ (From HELP GNAT COMPILE /83 on VMS).   Charlie 
 Compaq Ada   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:09:30 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000a Problem' Message-ID: <3CAE5B50.61F8CE0D@fsi.net>    Patrick Coulier wrote: >  > Good news, >  > We found the problem ... > K > Some thin piece of metal from between the PCI-slotopenings came loose and # > made contact to the nearest chip.  > L > This was causing the intermittent hang during system startup (srom V1.0 cc > hang). > H > Sometimes the systems started up but the internal SCSI ISP10x0 was not > detected.  > , > Removing the piece of metal did the trick. > > > Happy to have converted another good alphaserver to OpenVMS, > 	 > Patrick   H Am I having DejaGoogle, or did you post that same info. a while back and= it somehow disappeared? ...and perhaps magically re-appeared?    Gad, do I need a vacation...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 13:05:29 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Bill Gates "big" mistake ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051305.6cc5c6b4@posting.google.com>   7 now that we have proved that vms in "unhackable", it is 4 a shame Bill Gates didn't put windoze on top off vms6 instead of dos or trying to to steal mica vms code for7 nt ... instead of paying all that money now to send his 2 people to security boot camp, and being stuck w/an1 unsecure product, he could have had an unhackable 5 base (vms) w/windoze front end which would have ruled 7 both the home/small business and the high end world ... 4 windoze on vms/alpha would have no competition!  Now4 he has a piece of convuluted garbage that will never4 run efficently, securely, or in great numbers in the2 high end ... this will ultimately prevent him from4 dominating the computer world ... it's still not too( late Bill to buy vms/alpha and dominate!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:56:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ... , Message-ID: <3CAE39A4.E486DF63@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > 9 > now that we have proved that vms in "unhackable", it is 6 > a shame Bill Gates didn't put windoze on top off vms  I His applications are flawed to begin with, they have all sorts of options K enabled by default which should never have been. The size of the problem is  far greater than the OS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:22:48 GMT + From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures* Message-ID: <wk8z81x5dr.fsf@earthlink.net>  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:J > About three years ago I had some enjoyable conversations with one of theH > HA/CMP DLM implementors.  Though they wrote their code in 1993, he wasE > unaware of significant advances in the DLM (such as dynamic mastery K > migration based on load and speed-ups in lock database rebuilding after a M > failure), even though the I&DS volume describing them had been published in  > 1991.  > L > It would be nice to know more details about their internal implementation,) > but Clam never allowed them to publish.   F My wife and I ran small skunkworks responsible for HA/CMP.  I had doneE initial prototype in the late '80s (in part based on discussions with F various DBMS vendors). CLaM was under contract to do a lot of software: development (it wasn't CLaM's choice about publishing &/orA ownership). Both my wife and I left summer of '92 to go on and do  other stuff.  C The DBMS vendors that used/supported the HA/CMP DLM had description C and it was fairly straight-forward stuff. I believe that these same A DBMS vendors had been making the same suggestions for a number of  years to the original makers.   B One could conjecture once any faster implementation was available," that it would prompt similar work.   random refs:* http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 SSAZ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn2 Assurance, e-commece, and some x9.59 .... fyi- http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT? j http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#3 Power failure during write (was: Re: Disk drive behavior (again))C http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#4 Block oriented I/O over IP C http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#44 cp/67 (coss-post warning)   E part of the semantics & requirements were based on these DBMS vendors A having implementations already running on vax cluster and ease of C porting that cluster implementation to an ha/cmp platform. however, E that shouldn't be taken as the actual implementation was straight vax B and/or that we hadn't worked on other cluster-type implementations= prior to HA/CMP (including my wife having done a stint in POK . responsible for loosely-coupled architecture).   random refs:9 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#16 Dual-ported disks? 4 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#30 Drive letters5 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#35a Drive letters 7 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#37 What is MVS/ESA? ; http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#57 Reliability and SMPs @ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71 High Availabilty on S/390A http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#77 Are mainframes relevant ?? D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#92 MVS vs HASP vs JES (was 2821)q http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use L http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#128 Examples of non-relational databases@ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#13 Computer of the centuryD http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#78 Mainframe operating systems? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#22 Is a VAX a mainframe? - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#29 OT? - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT? - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#37 OT? < http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#73 7090 vs. 7094 etc.= http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#69 Wheeler and Wheeler D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#70 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#71 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?C http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#2 Block oriented I/O over IP 5 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#21 Theo Alkema ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#44 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#46 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid ^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#49 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?J http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#76 Other oddball IBM System 360's ?v http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#52 misc loosely-coupled, sysplex, cluster, supercomputer, & electronic commerceE http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#23 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0 D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#37 Poor Man's clustering ideaE http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#54 Computer Naming Conventions G http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#25 Crazy idea: has it been done?    --  E Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com, http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:50:29 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> < Subject: C++ Programming problem - was Re: Memory Corruption* Message-ID: <3CAE722F.3060900@qsl.network>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  > wing wrote:  >> 8  >> I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem.  >> E  >> I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebug C  >> version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, E  >> I am thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction?   I With out a more detailed description of the difference in behavior, then   your guess is as good as any.   :  >> I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3.  H Generally if your program behaves differently when it is optimized then H when it is not optimized, it is an indication of some sort of logic bug * that did not get detected by the compiler.  0 In rare cases it could be a bug in the compiler.  D  > Before you go that far, based on postings I've seen here, I'd tryC  > compiling with no debug and no optimization. That should produce 1  > working code, but try it and see what you get.   F It would help greatly to know what the expected behavior is, and what  behavior has been observed.   C  >> Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeory   >> corruption in a program.  G In general, comparing the observed behavior with the expected behavior.   G Now if the program behaves when you step through it with the debugger,  C but run in a nodebug mode does not, then look for an uninitialized  : variable.  Neither C++ or C initializes variables to zero.  H The debugger tends to clear the stack where these variables get stored,  thus hiding the bug.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 14:40:35 -0800 1 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 6 Subject: Re: Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ??= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204051440.5338ee80@posting.google.com>   L Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3CAD9A69.4070401@home.nl>.../ > This cache mechanism can only accomodate 100  G > files. If you access more than 100 files at the same time, the other  H > files will not be cached. That may explain the rather low hit rate of  > only 55%.   B This is incorrect.  100 is the limit on the number of File ControlF Blocks (FCBs) cached after files are closed (to speed things up in theB event they are soon re-opened)-- it's not a limit on the number ofE OPEN files cached.  SHOW MEMORY/CACHE shows this closed-file FCB list  size under "Files Retained".  E While it was a good idea to raise VCC_MAXSIZE (I think the default is C almost always too small), I think you probably have more space than F needed in your cache now.  You could use the "Kbytes Used" figure (nowA that you've run for a few days) times 2 (to convert Kbytes to the @ units of blocks used for VCC_MAXSIZE) to guide you toward a more! reasonable value for VCC_MAXSIZE.   9 Many factors can cause a low hit rate in VIOC, including: F o  Accesses may be more random, rather than re-reading the same blocks again 3 o  I/O sizes may be above VIOC's limit of 35 blocks D o  Some activities, such as Backup, may produce lots of reads but no hits  C If the files you need cached are RMS files, you could also consider  using RMS Global Buffers. . ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 19:38:31 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) H Subject: Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...+ Message-ID: <a8kufn$3c6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   3 In article <ZmmkAcPHe6Uv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, E  clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: n |> In article <E71r8.1890$fL6.37626@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:P |> > Perhaps there are people who don't like her management style, why does thisN |> > translate over into HP and their product set?  I can understand MPE usersQ |> > not being happy.  But I also am led to believe (by public comments) that the G |> > user base had dwindled to the point that it couldn't be sustained.o |> > 0 |> sI |> There seems to be a general dislike of Carly showing up in places that L |> have nothing to do with DEC/CPQ/HP. For example, the following appears in3 |> the April issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal, page 112:e |> o |> Carly's TuneeL |> I met a girl who sang the blues and I asked her for some HP news, but sheL |> just smiled and gently coughed. I went down to the gadget store where I'dG |> bought oscilloscopes before, but the man there said they'd spun thatmM |> business off. And in the boardroom the children screamed, directors cried,iL |> and Carly schemed, but not a word would they say -- about the old HP Way.O |> And the two men I admired most, their fabled legacy is toast, their business - |> on a downhill coast, the day that HP died.u |> sL |> [Not the greatest composition that I've ever come across, but the message |> is clear...]h  C Mike Swaine is the first thing I read every month, usually before I ; even get the magazine back to my office from the mailroom!!o   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 01:27:47 -0500* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: CMS library repair - Message-ID: <3CAE4F13.29039.540658@localhost>d  ? When I do a CMS VERIFY/REPAIR on some CMS libraries, I get the h
 following:  > %CMS-E-ERRVER2, internal contiguous space verified with errorsA -CMS-E-MSSBLKSTR, 4 35 type blocks found on pass 1, and 1 blocks e found on pass 2u3 %CMS-E-ERRVERCON, control file verified with errorse  4 However, the library still seems to "work" normally.  E These CMS libraries are accessed by different versions of CMS across sC my cluster.  Could there be some problems with that?  The versions e are:      VAX VMS 7.3		CMS 4.1s    Alpha VMS 7.3	CMS 4.0    VAX VMS 7.2		CMS 3.7-2a  E Should I upgrade my 3.7-2 to 4.0 or 4.1?  Will that make my problems   go away?    
 --Stan Quayles! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671e1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:46:26 -0500e' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> D Subject: Re: Could increasing kernel stack size improve performance?' Message-ID: <3CAE5372.691340BC@gce.com>a  G What happens if stack gets low (that is, in general, less than 1/8 page E or so left if I recall rightly) is that a FORK is executed. This doesn? not stall I/O but does allow kernel stack to clear. Have a look- at iosubnonpag for details.-    	 JG wrote:  > B > Recently I logged a call to software support about an INVEXCEPTNF > bugcheck in IO_ROUTINES on a system running DEC AMDS.  Anyway, in anE > email response I saw an internal article that talked about problems:H > that occur on systems when the free space on the kernel stack got low,7 > usually due to a large number of active network I/Os.r > H > The interesting thing was the article said that the workaround to thisG > (already implemented) was to stall I/Os when the the kernel stack got>D > low.  My bugcheck was apparently because this workaround made some? > assumptions that were not true in the case of the RM: driver.b > B > My real question is if this is true then would I see performanceD > improvements on systems running a webserver just by increasing theG > size of the kernel stack?  We have AlphaServer 1000s that seem to hityH > a bottleneck serving cached graphics when there is plenty of free CPU.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:30:28 +0800+ From: "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com>a Subject: DCL command procedure* Message-ID: <a8lmkd$nth2@rain.i-cable.com>  H Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure? It's working even I don'tL give the $ sign on each command line in the procedures. Then what is the use of this "$" sign?n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:00:51 GMTq1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h" Subject: Re: DCL command procedure' Message-ID: <3CAE6752.27C27156@fsi.net>c   Kenneth wrote: > J > Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure? It's working even I don'tN > give the $ sign on each command line in the procedures. Then what is the use > of this "$" sign?   B The "$" is required, believe it or else. Certain "features" remain/ unchanged to prevent "breaking" older software.   G If you start seeing messages complaining that "image data" was ignored,e! better start fixing your proc.'s.n   For example:   CREATE MY_FILE.TXT   This is the content of my file.L   TYPE MY_FILE.TXT  H ...may not produce the results you might expect. The following will work
 correctly:   $ CREATE MY_FILE.TXT   This is the content of my file.u   $ TYPE MY_FILE.TXT  D ..., although a "$ EOD" line really should precede the TYPE command.   -- t David J. Dachtera, dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 21:07:51 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: DCL command procedure3 Message-ID: <9QPN7dG3bjC5@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  X In article <a8lmkd$nth2@rain.i-cable.com>, "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> writes:J > Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure? It's working even I don'tN > give the $ sign on each command line in the procedures. Then what is the use > of this "$" sign?r  D The dollar sign distinguishes input that is to go to DCL versus that@ intended for the application.  In some cases it is not detected,/ but that has been tightening up over the years.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 22:31:12 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>j" Subject: Re: DCL command procedure' Message-ID: <3CAE8820.2010803@mmaz.com>@   Kenneth wrote:  I >Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure? It's working even I don'tGM >give the $ sign on each command line in the procedures. Then what is the usec >of this "$" sign? >iH If I recall correctly, I believe the primary reason it works is that it B presumes a DECK input stream, a fall back to punched card input...   Barry    >e >m >w   -- e  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:19:23 -05002 From: "Homer J Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com>: Subject: FA: Digital Systems & Options Catalog, April 1998B Message-ID: <mxur8.49781$0T6.13175632@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>  = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2015166626    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:24:43 -0600/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>D4 Subject: RE: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to BoardT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C248@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  L HP has announced 150 of the top executives in the new company.  The info can be found at:4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/03apr02b.htm  , I didn't see Compaq names that I recognized.  	 Ed Stuarth+ Information Technology & Telecommunications 
 Austin Energy > **Apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:56:38 -0800, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>4 Subject: Re: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board4 Message-ID: <a8l31u$si5r0$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  ( I looked a bit harder and found a coupleI Peter Mercury, Compaq "VP and General Manager Compaq Multivendor CustomertG Services" Now reports to Ann Livermore for "customer support"  (This is  good)   F Gary Campbell, current compaq VP of enterprise server strategy will be6 reporting to Shane Robison, CTO (currently Compaq CTO)  L Wish I knew who this guy Scott Stallard that is listed for Business Critical Systems, Anyone?   Jima            : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C248@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..J > HP has announced 150 of the top executives in the new company.  The info cane > be found at:6 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/03apr02b.htm >o. > I didn't see Compaq names that I recognized. >a > Ed Stuartt- > Information Technology & Telecommunicationsf > Austin Energyr@ > **Apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:59:02 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a4 Subject: Re: HP Won't Renominate W. Hewlett to Board3 Message-ID: <wIrr8.1971$fL6.39703@news.cpqcorp.net>A  K His Bio says he started as an engineer, came up through the ranks, and owns9( the "server" business - including HP-UX.    7 "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in messageP. news:a8l31u$si5r0$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de...* > I looked a bit harder and found a coupleK > Peter Mercury, Compaq "VP and General Manager Compaq Multivendor Customer.I > Services" Now reports to Ann Livermore for "customer support"  (This isw > good)  >tH > Gary Campbell, current compaq VP of enterprise server strategy will be8 > reporting to Shane Robison, CTO (currently Compaq CTO) >pE > Wish I knew who this guy Scott Stallard that is listed for Businessi Critical > Systems, Anyone? >  > Jim' >o >d >  >e >l >e< > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message > L news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C248@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > ..L > > HP has announced 150 of the top executives in the new company.  The info > canl > > be found at:8 > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/03apr02b.htm > >r0 > > I didn't see Compaq names that I recognized. > >E
 > > Ed Stuartw/ > > Information Technology & Telecommunications  > > Austin Energy.B > > **Apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.** >l >/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:03:42 GMTm% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>pO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxo8 Message-ID: <cg0sau00ltooue6gddvq198kuaufnmfj52@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:59:39 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyl3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:g   >. >/
 >jlsue wrote:# >M6 >> On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:42:54 +0100, Andrew Harrison6 >> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote: >> l >> 0 >>>t >>>jlsue wrote:/ >>>g >>>.I >>>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:57:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 >>>><andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:  >>>>   >>>w: >>>Who do you work for again ?? Ohh I forgot from the high< >>>moral tone you have just tried to assume I thought it was& >>>some other company and not ChomPaq. >>> > >>>If you want rude just contemplate what your customers thinkB >>>about you. Your memory is short if you have forgotten Alphacide= >>>Compaction and all the other things that have been done to  >>>shaft your customers. >>>wB >>>And there is no wiggling out of this, you are responsible along< >>>with the rest of the Choir to a greater or lesser degree. >>>pC >>>Who amongst the Choir trumpeted the 25 year life span commitmentbB >>>made by Digital for Alpha when the whole project was hemoraging@ >>>money at a rate the vastly accelerated the demise of Digital. >>>r >>>[major snippage...] >>>n >> 1F >> Whew!  Andrew you're really on a roll.  I've never seen so many non >> sequitors in one note.r >> d >  >p1 >Really care to illustrate this with examples ???n >o4 >Ohh I thought not that would expose you to ridicule$ >allong with your fellow Choristers. >n  ? Examples of what, exactly?  Can you pose a coherent question or ) request so that I can actually answer it?   B Your entire rant is chock full of non sequitors, so it serves as a fine example in itself.o  B Now, if you want examples that prove my previous points about yourC hypocrisy in that you began the name calling in this thread... just D let me know and I'll exract the entire thing and send it to ya.  I'mD not about to re-post it here:  It's entirely too long and the drivel% was bad enough the first time around.a  C On the other hand, you're such a google expert, look it up yourselfa; (that's what you always tell the rest of us to do, anyway).i  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqi- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:15:55 GMTf% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>nO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxt8 Message-ID: <ep0sau0nop3fsji79v2mj3820a60vdat4r@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:07:26 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyI3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:d   >p >i
 >jlsue wrote:o > 6 >> On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:46:35 +0100, Andrew Harrison6 >> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote: >> i   >>>a >>>a >> eI >> Yawn.  Can't find anything to denigrate in your adversaries so ya justf >> make things up, eh? >> o >p >nC >Again don't accuse me of making things up remember your backgrounde@ >remember that as a fully payed up member of the Choir (you were= >actually on a salary) you have been personnaly or indirectlynD >responsible for the disinformation and general BS that has been the? >hallmark of the whole AlphaGate, WiltFireGate, CompactionGate,cB >GalaxyGate, ClusterGate and all the other lesser scams going back; >to the Alpha performance scam Phase V DECNET and the 9000.- >-: >As I said 10 years of shafting is a pretty amazing record> >in a way its a backhanded tribute to OpenVMS that people have! >been prepared to put up with it.e >g  < Yeah, Andrew, I accuse you of making things up.  Find me theB references that prove your accusations in the paragraph above, and5 others concerning my background, or shut the hell up.   F Remember, if you want to discredit someone, it is up to you to provideD the evidence.  This vague "remember your background" just doesn't do it.  n  C I DO remember my background and it is, by and large, my challengingCD you on technical FUD & BS about VMS & VMSclusters that you spout offB in here.  My technical experience with VMS and VMSclusters againstF your FUD will win every time.  And you have yet to address any of yourF analysis problems that I have raised on these subjects - which usually= consists of finding ONE (or a smallish group < 10) person wholD complains in very vague terms about some issue, and you harp on thatE as if it's the rule rather than the exception.  I have challenged you E time and again to provide more evidence than this small, self-skewingV data set, but you never have.   C And then your typical method of operation is to go completely quietlC after a technical challenge, and then come back some time later andhD start re-stating the same FUD you never proved the previous time(s),D yet you still CLAIM victory in the previous discussions.  And that's@ when you don't complete distract from the original discussion byA throwing in some other non sequitor to try to draw the discussion  along some other line of FUD.-  E Again, if you want me to extract all of these and e-mail them to you,-D I am more than happy to... though your mail server will get somewhat1 bogged-down - I hope it's not a Slowlaris server.:  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqn- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:50:57 -0500/ From: "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX/ Message-ID: <uas724lblps80f@corp.supernews.com><  J <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:a8k45j$7dl$6@bob.news.rcn.net...D > Those are two very good people to ask about JMF and TW.  It's good$ > to hear that they're still around.  I     Just don't get Dawn started on the stupidity of some induviduals. Youc may needF     a doctor to help you put your ribs together from laughing so hard.  L     One of her best crackups was was around 1991 when she called John CovertI     (FYI:I'm not implying John is either stupid or an inDUHvidual. It wash just a purepJ     Dawn moment) on her cellphone to ask him to pass the salt. John was at theT.     other end of the VMS table in the ZK cafe.       Ring, Ring....7     Covert: Hi There. (if you know John, this is funny)o0     Dawn: John.. Would you please pass the salt?  <     The look on John's face was great.. "Ya had to be there"       Ah, memories....   mike   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Apr 2002 09:57:28 -0800 From: Greg Finn <finn@isi.edu>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX( Message-ID: <6wadsiyqnr.fsf@cnn.isi.edu>  - Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:h  ' > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Hans Vlems wrote:aH > > one question: how many 10/20's did DEC/Digital sell and how many VMS > > systems?7 > > That should put things in perspective, wouldn't it.r >  > A better measure is: > A > How many 10/20s were on the Internet, and how many VMS systems?  > ; > VMS did not replace the 10/20 on the Internet.  UNIX did.c >  > -- Mark --  I From the perspective of a very large ARPANET site, the handwriting was onaI the wall.  Mainframes were on the way out as research workhorses by 1980.-  G PARC had captured most of the architectural action.  Even AMD bit-sliceyH architecture could deliver more cycles in a workstation to the user thanA could a mainframe shared among many users, let alone provide goodnI bitmap/mouse support ... and microprocessors were obviously coming along.n  G The thing that really galled, was that those with a decent grasp of thedK hardware/software advances knew which direction to take DEC.  But corporatevE apparently wasn't interested in providing a 20 workstation, if indeeda any good workstation then.  H It was very sad to see the calcification of a once leading-edge company.G The R&D community had great fondness for Tops-20/TENEX.  Two years were E spent thrashing around, wasting time and money looking for a suitableuI workstation.  Several companies produced workstation products in the very K early 80's.  Stanford (SUN), CMU (Perq), Apple (Lisa), BBN (Jericho), XeroxQK (Star), Apollo ... I forget some of the others.  Developing expertise on annK entirely new machine architectures wastes immense time and energy.  Much ofhK the ARPANET community was effectively forced to leave DEC behind ... and we0 didn't like that.   L SUN/Unix won because it was general purpose platform, open source (BSD-basedK and easily licensed initially) and a multi-lingual system.  ARPA had to payhL to make UNIX a sufficient base.  DEC had become a legacy system for the ARPAK research community and it was doomed ... notwithstanding the superb work on/ Alpha and ARM years later.  B All these years later and we still don't have GTJFN, COMND and ... Lots was lost.   --- ggf    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:30:02 GMTn. From: root@acer.reistad.priv.no (Charlie Root)  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX5 Message-ID: <_rqr8.51$Vv5.2594@nreader1.kpnqwest.net>m  5 In article <3CAC5FD9.85B18FE4@bartek.dontspamme.net>,a4 Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote: >Alan Greig wrote: >>  B >> Most of the  tens or twenties sold had a user population in theH >> thousands or tens of thousands. Most (2020 excepted) could handle 100+ >> or more interactive users even in 1980.   >e >I take exception to that :)      Another datapoint from memory :   F At my college the DEC2065 tended to get slow at round 150 users, whereB around 100 would be active at any one time. It only got terminallyF bad at two occations; both under severe stress from a lot of different work.o  @ At my first job we observed VAX780's not be able to run a simpleC videotext application for more than around 20 users without massive8? overloading. It was swapping and taskswitching itself to death.m@ It was not until the 8600 that there was a real platform for VMS! that could take any major loads. c  B The same application flew on both Prime 750's and Nord 100's; bothA with slower cpus and less memory. I never got a chance to test it-D on a '20. (although, now with emulators I may get a chance. I still  have the source code). d   This was around 1985.   	 -- mortenL   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:28:47 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>n  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAXP Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204051507510.17127-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>   On 5 Apr 2002, Greg Finn wrote: I > The thing that really galled, was that those with a decent grasp of theeM > hardware/software advances knew which direction to take DEC.  But corporateaG > apparently wasn't interested in providing a 20 workstation, if indeedx > any good workstation then.  H Yup.  The 2020 was ridiculously slow, but it proved that it was possibleE to build a non-mainframe PDP-10.  Foonly proved that it could be done J cheaply.  There were the lost opportunities... notably Dolphin on the high end and Minnow on the low end.  G But DEC corporate policy was first to prevent product lines competitingJC with each other.  Later it was changed so that VAX was permitted too? compete with other product lines, but not the other way around.-  J > It was very sad to see the calcification of a once leading-edge company.I > The R&D community had great fondness for Tops-20/TENEX.  Two years werebG > spent thrashing around, wasting time and money looking for a suitablem > workstation.  " I remember that time quite well...  N > SUN/Unix won because it was general purpose platform, open source (BSD-basedM > and easily licensed initially) and a multi-lingual system.  ARPA had to pay ! > to make UNIX a sufficient base.n  H It also had become clear that there really wasn't much of a choice.  FewJ people really liked UNIX; there were a few bigots but the majority went to' UNIX because there was no other choice.-  J DECWRL built a fairly pleasant UNIX, and there was an opportunity when SUNI jumped on the SVR4 bandwagon, but then Digital decided to go off on their0 own with OSF/1.   D > All these years later and we still don't have GTJFN, COMND and ... > Lots was lost.  G On the other hand, there is Lingling, which I believe to be the fastesthE TOPS-20 system ever at 15x KL speed (about the equivalent of a 45 MHziH Intel) and put together for a cost of about $750.  I imagine that with aH more suitable hardware base (the microcode incurs a 33x performance hit,F which is actually pretty good -- 100x is considered more typical of an0 emulator), we could have a real kick-ass system.  @ Anyway, having GTJFN, COMND, etc. back again is quite enjoyable.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrceF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:48:25 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e  Subject: RE: IA64 is not the VAX9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEEFELAA.tom@kednos.com>   I Unless I am mistaken, you meant Nord 10. It had sixteen sets of identicaliG registers, so that a context switch usually meant going from one set to4H another.  There was a Nord 500 which was an attached high speed floatingB point unit.  I had 650's and 750's and they were surprisingly fast
 consdering1 that it was generally an accumulator architecturea   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Charlie Root [mailto:root@acer.reistad.priv.no]u& > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 3:30 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh" > Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX >- >  >e7 > In article <3CAC5FD9.85B18FE4@bartek.dontspamme.net>,<6 > Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote: > >Alan Greig wrote: > >>D > >> Most of the  tens or twenties sold had a user population in theJ > >> thousands or tens of thousands. Most (2020 excepted) could handle 100, > >> or more interactive users even in 1980. > >v > >I take exception to that :) >s > ! > Another datapoint from memory :c >aH > At my college the DEC2065 tended to get slow at round 150 users, whereD > around 100 would be active at any one time. It only got terminallyH > bad at two occations; both under severe stress from a lot of different > work.E ><B > At my first job we observed VAX780's not be able to run a simpleE > videotext application for more than around 20 users without massivenA > overloading. It was swapping and taskswitching itself to death.eB > It was not until the 8600 that there was a real platform for VMS" > that could take any major loads. >hD > The same application flew on both Prime 750's and Nord 100's; bothC > with slower cpus and less memory. I never got a chance to test iteE > on a '20. (although, now with emulators I may get a chance. I stillr > have the source code). >  > This was around 1985.k >n > -- morteno >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:00:31 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX, Message-ID: <3CAE3A9E.FD841709@videotron.ca>   "Michael A. Foley" wrote:UL >     Dawn moment) on her cellphone to ask him to pass the salt. John was at0 > the other end of the VMS table in the ZK cafe.  M Yes. I met Mr Covert once about that time. His use of cellphone was, shall wep say "interesting" ????  I We were at a meeting. The maitre d came to get our orders. One person was L late. Mr Covert managed to call the airline, get info on how late her flightK was, then got through to the minibus company, found out the phone number ofhL the actual minivan carrying her, got in touch with the driver who passed theK call to the person, and then Mr Covert asked something akin to "do you wantrN Chicken or the Fish?", and then told the maitre d what she wanted and when she
 would arrive.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:41:03 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX3 Message-ID: <Frrr8.1969$fL6.39884@news.cpqcorp.net>m  . Dawn got her Doctorate last year (psychology).  < And yes, John deserves *every* crack about his phone fetish.    : "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote in message) news:uas724lblps80f@corp.supernews.com...- >-L > <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:a8k45j$7dl$6@bob.news.rcn.net...F > > Those are two very good people to ask about JMF and TW.  It's good& > > to hear that they're still around. >uK >     Just don't get Dawn started on the stupidity of some induviduals. YouH
 > may needH >     a doctor to help you put your ribs together from laughing so hard. >/G >     One of her best crackups was was around 1991 when she called Johns CovertK >     (FYI:I'm not implying John is either stupid or an inDUHvidual. It wase
 > just a pure L >     Dawn moment) on her cellphone to ask him to pass the salt. John was at > the>0 >     other end of the VMS table in the ZK cafe. >  >     Ring, Ring....9 >     Covert: Hi There. (if you know John, this is funny)l2 >     Dawn: John.. Would you please pass the salt? >>> >     The look on John's face was great.. "Ya had to be there" >t >     Ah, memories.... >o > mike >  >a >t   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 05:17:47 GMTa- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)o  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-lWybcVJEsL2J@localhost>r  9 On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:53:55 UTC, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:o  1 > In article <U4Kq8.286$o3.4403@typhoon.bart.nl>,p( >    "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote: > >Fred, > >lG > >one question: how many 10/20's did DEC/Digital sell and how many VMSv > >systems?a6 > >That should put things in perspective, wouldn't it. > F > Nope.  Because a customer had to buy five VAX/VMS systems to replaceB > the computing resources of a -20.  It was _how much work_ a user? > could get done.  VMS was not a clean new OS.  It's philosophyoB > was deeply rooted in the RSX thinking.  Timesharing was anathema > to the philosophy.  E Where does one draw the line between 'timesharing' and 'multi-user'? uB The -M in RSX11-M, after all. On the other hand, I always used to D think of the VAX as RSX in hardware. ie. lots of the stuff that was B done in s/w in RSX now done in h/w on VAX. Context switch support  comes to mind. l   I never used a 10 or 20.   -- e Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 06:10:12 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAXC Message-ID: <8jwr8.252926$2q2.22120893@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>u  : "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message/ news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-lWybcVJEsL2J@localhost...D; > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:53:55 UTC, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >-3 > > In article <U4Kq8.286$o3.4403@typhoon.bart.nl>,2* > >    "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:
 > > >Fred, > > >RI > > >one question: how many 10/20's did DEC/Digital sell and how many VMSs
 > > >systems?08 > > >That should put things in perspective, wouldn't it. > >0H > > Nope.  Because a customer had to buy five VAX/VMS systems to replaceD > > the computing resources of a -20.  It was _how much work_ a userA > > could get done.  VMS was not a clean new OS.  It's philosophysD > > was deeply rooted in the RSX thinking.  Timesharing was anathema > > to the philosophy. >aF > Where does one draw the line between 'timesharing' and 'multi-user'? > The -M in RSX11-M, after all.g  H While I lay no claim to the definitive definition here, my impression isL that part of the difference involves behavior under load.  I remember not soL fondly the way RSX-11M systems (back around V2 - V3?  1976ish, anyway) wouldG clutch up and die under excessive user load ('pool' - I think primary -GJ exhaustion being one memorable problem which occasionally could be unwoundL by judicious task removal but as often could not), whereas I'd expect a realI time-sharing system just to get slower and slower but keep chugging away.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:46:56 -0500c> From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheon@NOSPAMcompaq.com>M Subject: Re: Language support on Itanium VMS (was: Announcing a boot contest),0 Message-ID: <3CADFF30.D419C34C@NOSPAMcompaq.com>  B >2. ACT standardizes their distribution even to customers as beingA >   only via Internet.  Unless Compaq makes a change to that, them? >   GNAT compiler will be unavailable to those of us who do notn$ >   take software over the Interne.t  L I haven't heard customers complain about this limitation.  I'd hope that ACTN would consider alternative distribution methods if enough customers consideredL this a problem.  More and more, Compaq is delivering over the internet also, especially ECO patch kits.  8 >4. I have seen no clear statement that the ACT product,: >   even if available, would work with the VMS debugger on >   Itanium.  O This is quite likely to happen (GNAT using VMS Debug on Itanium).  We've gotten H feed back that customers want to use VMS Debug.  Note that feedback from? customers is listened to, especially in new contracts with ACT.e  : >5. Considering the _severe_ limitations of the Compaq Ada; >   compiler with regard to VEST (e.g., not even supportingu  K I very much doubt that Compaq Ada images will be translatable for Intanium.sC Certainly not without some unplanned for work in current Compaq Adah code generation.  I Please note that Compaq and ACT are interested in feedback on areas where-D GNAT Pro can be more compatible with Ada.  The OpenVMS Alpha port ofK GNAT included specific areas we thought were important.   Other areas couldoE possibly be addressed (although I doubt GNAT's command line interfacey will get changed  :-)...   Charlier
 Compaq Ada   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:31:07 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e! Subject: Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS:' Message-ID: <3CAE605D.616C27A4@fsi.net>s   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3CAD0A91.CF37E1EF@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:w > > Neil Rieck wrote:s > >>Q > >> MACRO-32 (for VAX) didn't require a license. MACRO-64 (for Alpha) required at) > >> license for a while but is now free.v > >>C > >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#macro64m > >hG > > Actually, Macro64 still requires a license. However, the license is  > > freely available.  > > > Macro64 requires a license _PAK_, which is freely available. > D > _Any_ software requires a _license_, unless you wrote it yourself.D > That includes Freeware.  A license might even be verbal, but it is > required.g  H It's well known that I'm a moron; so, it should come as no surprise thatF when I think "license", I usually think of the document itself and itsG representation via the LMF (i.e., the "key" that "unlocks the software"-B - boy, we're just full of metaphors around here, which itself is a* metaphor, no?), and not the legal concept.  4 (Yessir, we're just slopping over with metaphors...)   -- a David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 21:03:38 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e! Subject: Re: Macro-64 and Vax VMS 3 Message-ID: <H03q5n+l+HDR@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  [ In article <3CAE605D.616C27A4@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o  H > when I think "license", I usually think of the document itself and itsI > representation via the LMF (i.e., the "key" that "unlocks the software"o  E In most cases, an LMF license PAK does not fully express the terms ofdF the license.  For instance a normal VMS license is only good for up toE a certain version of the operating system, but that is not encoded in.D the PAK.  You can buy an extension to that license (right to use new* version), but no additional PAK is issued.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 11:53:40 -0800k( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Memory Corruption= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051153.7584e2cf@posting.google.com>   d wingwong@witty.com (wing) wrote in message news:<873e96d6.0204050552.40eee8a4@posting.google.com>... > Hi,T > 6 > I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem. > C > I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebugcF > version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, I am> > thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction? > A > Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeorym > corruption in a program. > 8 > I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3. > 	 > Thanks,c >  > Wing  = that's because your using C ... it allows you to easily screwe< up alot of stuff, including memory registers!  try Dibol ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:51:31 -0500* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com> Subject: Re: Memory Corruption3 Message-ID: <3cae0e49$0$3102$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>n   > >e8 > > I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem. > > E > > I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebug-H > > version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, I am@ > > thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction? > >6C > > Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeoryt > > corruption in a program. > >@: > > I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3. > >e > > Thanks,  > >  > > Wing > ? > that's because your using C ... it allows you to easily screw > > up alot of stuff, including memory registers!  try Dibol ...    %   Mmmm Open up tons of career optionse   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 19:09:01 -0800a( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Memory Corruption= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051909.265883e0@posting.google.com>e  e "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3cae0e49$0$3102$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>...  > > > : > > > I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem. > > >xG > > > I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebug.J > > > version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, I amB > > > thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction? > > >.E > > > Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeoryh > > > corruption in a program. > > >e< > > > I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3. > > > 
 > > > Thanks,n > > >t
 > > > Wing > >uA > > that's because your using C ... it allows you to easily screw-@ > > up alot of stuff, including memory registers!  try Dibol ... >  > ' >   Mmmm Open up tons of career optionsR   more than you think!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:23:05 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h Subject: Re: Memory Corruption' Message-ID: <3CAE6C83.8FB37018@fsi.net>d   wing wrote:d >  > Hi,  > 6 > I am new to C++ in VMS and I have a strange problem. > C > I am writing a program, in which, if I compile it in with nodebugrF > version, its behaviour is not the same as in debug mode.  Thus, I am> > thinking of memory corruption. Is I am in a right direction?  A Before you go that far, based on postings I've seen here, I'd tryeH compiling with no debug and no optimization. That should produce working& code, but try it and see what you get.  A > Is there any guideline/tool to find out if there is any memeory  > corruption in a program.  8 Beyond just common sense checking your code, I doubt it.  8 > I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3.   -- g David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:26:01 -0500.0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Old LPS17 booting; Message-ID: <050420021526013133%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>e  D In article <58ba0101.0204050653.33bd9d09@posting.google.com>, Andrew0 Rycroft <andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com> wrote:  B > I have an old LPS17 printer, which I understnad used to boot offE > OpenVMS. Is there anyway to get it to boot off a Windows platform ?i  C Windows NT as shipped from Microsoft has all the bits necessary fordH PrintServer booting, although you might have to install it from the CD. A You can pick up the separate PrintServer Software for Windows at:F  H <http://www.compaq.com/products/printers/software/prt_swdrv_printserver. html>   : In article <0033000059029632000002L022*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:  G > This is strictly from memory but I think that LPS17s only have an AUIhC > (DB15-style Ethernet) interface and they only booted from VMS viac > the MOP protocol.a  C The type of network connector has nothing to do with booting.  Yes, F PrintServer printers boot from OpenVMS via MOP but also boot from Unix and Windows via BOOTP/TFTP..  F > THE FOLLOWING IS HYPOTHETICAL AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE DO IT, OR > DONE IT MYSELF---p > H > You ****might**** be able to find the I/O board from a LaserJet of theI > proper flavor 3Si? 4Si? and if it will fit there might be a possibilityI  > that you could get it to work.  C No part from a LaserJet printer is needed or would help to boot theo PrintServer.   Paul   -- e  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringt   Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:15:39 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itC Message-ID: <vJmr8.245701$2q2.21482851@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>O  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:rYhr8.1931$fL6.39039@news.cpqcorp.net...   > Bill Todd wrote in message ...   ...c  G > >People like Fred who exhort customers to run out and buy as many VMSt	 > systemsmK > >as they can afford in the hope that this will give the platform a betteriG > >chance for a future are seriously confused about how commerce works:t it'sJ > >the *vendor* who needs to give *customers* the assurance of a product'sL > >future, not the reverse.  So when the vendor's top management clearly has > noB > >interest in the product, nor any interest in accepting customer suggestions L > >for how to improve its revenue and profit, asking customers to hang on inH > >the hope they won't be hung out to dry is - well, the most charitableB > >characterization one can put on it is the one I did ("seriously confused"), H > >but after sufficient repetitions in the face of clear explanations it > reallyJ > >does begin to look much more like being self-serving ("I'd like to hang > ontoK > >this job a while longer:  won't you put your company's money on the line  to > >increase my chances?"). > >h > I > Hey, I've given you *my* assurance, but that isn't good enough for you.sK > Fair enough.  However, your position is lets try and start a death-spiraltF > because your pissed off (although you have no stake in the outcome).  I Wrong again, Fred.  My position is that since VMS's owner has proven time-J and time again that it's not going to listen to anything else, threateningF it with major loss of revenue and profit is the *only* option left forK securing VMS's future (and if you don't take that option, then either you'daC better be willing to live committed to a platform with a manifestly 9 *insecure* future or find another platform to commit to).m  K Your advice that customers should instead close their eyes tightly and keeptG repeating "I *DO* believe in fairies!" is at least consistent with yourrE protestation elsewhere today that you're just an engineer and have nofK influence on corporate decisions:  accepting corporate mismanagement rather L than taking a stand against it is what brought DECpac (and its customers) to where they are today.e   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:55:19 GMTc* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it@ Message-ID: <Hinr8.15703$w7.1146187@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea= news:vJmr8.245701$2q2.21482851@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.... >8B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message/ > news:rYhr8.1931$fL6.39039@news.cpqcorp.net...h" > > Bill Todd wrote in message ... >" > ...f >yI > > >People like Fred who exhort customers to run out and buy as many VMS- > > systemsvF > > >as they can afford in the hope that this will give the platform a betterI > > >chance for a future are seriously confused about how commerce works:t > it'sL > > >the *vendor* who needs to give *customers* the assurance of a product'sJ > > >future, not the reverse.  So when the vendor's top management clearly hasr > > noD > > >interest in the product, nor any interest in accepting customer
 > suggestionsJK > > >for how to improve its revenue and profit, asking customers to hang ond inJ > > >the hope they won't be hung out to dry is - well, the most charitableD > > >characterization one can put on it is the one I did ("seriously
 > confused"), J > > >but after sufficient repetitions in the face of clear explanations it
 > > reallyL > > >does begin to look much more like being self-serving ("I'd like to hang > > ontoH > > >this job a while longer:  won't you put your company's money on the line > to > > >increase my chances?"). > > >  > > K > > Hey, I've given you *my* assurance, but that isn't good enough for you.R@ > > Fair enough.  However, your position is lets try and start a death-spiralH > > because your pissed off (although you have no stake in the outcome). ><K > Wrong again, Fred.  My position is that since VMS's owner has proven time:L > and time again that it's not going to listen to anything else, threateningH > it with major loss of revenue and profit is the *only* option left forG > securing VMS's future (and if you don't take that option, then either  you'daE > better be willing to live committed to a platform with a manifestly ; > *insecure* future or find another platform to commit to).h > H > Your advice that customers should instead close their eyes tightly and keepI > repeating "I *DO* believe in fairies!" is at least consistent with yoursG > protestation elsewhere today that you're just an engineer and have no F > influence on corporate decisions:  accepting corporate mismanagement ratherK > than taking a stand against it is what brought DECpac (and its customers)  to > where they are today.   I And for those who might be inclined to accept Fred's 'assurance' of VMS's0 future, consider the following:d  G It was only three years ago that a VMS code freeze was planned for next8I year.  That decision got changed (perhaps not coincidentally at about the K same time the solemn long-term commitments to Alpha were reaffirmed...) andl4 VMS enjoyed its small (but promising) 'renaissance'.  H Since then, the renaissance has fizzled (as I suggested it would fifteenK months ago in the 'letter to Curly' post Rob cited) and VMS has returned toqI about the same state it was in when the freeze was planned.  A lot of theeG same upper management is still in charge, and will move to HP retaining H similar responsibilities.  Any belief that the 'commitments' (tepid onesF compared with those made to Alpha) are any more binding than the Alpha& promises seems rather hard to justify.  K So I repeat:  the *only* way to *ensure* a more promising future for VMS isaK to get rid of that management and its mentality.  Period.  Anything else isnL just aimed at possibly delaying VMS's demise, and presenting it otherwise isI an attempt to keep it alive for as long as *you* care about by suggesting L that following your strategy will keep it alive for as long as *others* care+ about (a morally dubious position at best).9   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:41:43 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it+ Message-ID: <3CAE0C01.FB137DB@videotron.ca>I   Bill Todd wrote:K > Wrong again, Fred.  My position is that since VMS's owner has proven time L > and time again that it's not going to listen to anything else, threateningH > it with major loss of revenue and profit is the *only* option left for > securing VMS's futuren   Why bother ?L Compaq/HP are clearly not interested in growing VMS. Otherwise they'd marketH it and instruct their sales force to at least give VMS options when they respond to RFPs.  I Compaq/HP have bet a certain attrition rates with nil marketing, and havenS figured out exactly how much marketing is needed to stop negative growth if needed.'  M But even if VMS were to grow, they would still find a way to justify whateverdF they want. Fact that they stopped the renaissance is a good example ofM Compaq/HP not wanting VMS to succeed despite all the efforts of the grunts ati the lower levels..  K It is up to Compaq/HP to define what they want to do with VMS. If they wantaL customers to stay with VMS, grow their VMS installations and if they want toM attract new customers, they will send clear, loud and long lasting statementssJ to that effect. If they just want to control attrition, they will send outN "don't worry" letters whenever people like you or me stirr things up too much.  M Remember the "don't worry, Compaq is about to embark on a big change to focusoM on enterprise systems" promise which turned out to be ads for wintel boxes ina a VW minibus near a beach ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:52:02 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <YBrr8.1970$fL6.39887@news.cpqcorp.net>c  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageo: news:Hinr8.15703$w7.1146187@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >fI > It was only three years ago that a VMS code freeze was planned for next-K > year.  That decision got changed (perhaps not coincidentally at about theaI > same time the solemn long-term commitments to Alpha were reaffirmed...)  and66 > VMS enjoyed its small (but promising) 'renaissance'. >a  E Eh?  What "freeze"?  Some random net rumor?  There was never a freezeiJ planned on the floor.  What there was, was "landing zones" to lengthen theJ time that a customer could ride a functional release during the Y2K panic.  J > Since then, the renaissance has fizzled (as I suggested it would fifteenJ > months ago in the 'letter to Curly' post Rob cited) and VMS has returned toK > about the same state it was in when the freeze was planned.  A lot of the_I > same upper management is still in charge, and will move to HP retaining,J > similar responsibilities.  Any belief that the 'commitments' (tepid onesH > compared with those made to Alpha) are any more binding than the Alpha( > promises seems rather hard to justify. >n  I Wow.  What basis of facts do you have?  We're talking about the plans foraC V8.0 and what "should" be in a major release.  We're working on COE,G certification.  We have UNIX compatbility projects underway.  We have 4oJ releases (internal and then external) of IA64 planned to get us to a fullyI compatable/capable customer release.  What exact "state" have we returned.I to?  We think VMS has a future.  We are writing new functionality, adding/L new devices.  Planning the launch of Marvel.  Porting to IA64.  Everyone whoI I have talked to inside and outside of VMS in Compaq believes that VMS isa# very well positioned in the new HP.n  J > So I repeat:  the *only* way to *ensure* a more promising future for VMS isJ > to get rid of that management and its mentality.  Period.  Anything else isK > just aimed at possibly delaying VMS's demise, and presenting it otherwisey isK > an attempt to keep it alive for as long as *you* care about by suggestingyI > that following your strategy will keep it alive for as long as *others*o care- > about (a morally dubious position at best).g >s  L And you think that somehow whining and causing FUD in this newsgroup will do1 it?  Who do you want to manage the company?  You?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:08:27 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>c2 Subject: RE: Predictions - just for the hell of itT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E38@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF -  @ >>> Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?<<<   Java on the server ...=20S  E Hey, heres another NEW financial market win for OpenVMS .. Good thingf. they don't read the doom-n-gloom stuff here...  D http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html - February 21, 2002F "Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, New Contracts at Minneapolis Grain Exchange"f   :-)i   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional ServicesS Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20l Sent: April 5, 2002 10:52 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it     "Main, Kerry" wrote:J > "As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,=20H > onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing system  H > and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's OpenVMS   > AlphaServer systems."h  9 Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?c   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:10:33 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it' Message-ID: <3CAE5B8F.FF0AD280@fsi.net>    Dave Weatherall wrote: > H > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:17:09 UTC, Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> > wrote: >  > >lL > > What stands out to me was the fact the fact that DEC's PC did not come aH > > floppy disk format program. You had to Buy DEC's pre-formated disks.0 > > The weird floppy too I bet cost lots of $$$. > G > Really? my Rainbow did - for both CP/M and, eventually, domessdos. Doo > you mean the VaxMate?r  E Hhmmm... I seem to recall having that same problem with a MicroVAX-IIn that supported floppies.   --   David J. DachteraS dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 21:22:31 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it, Message-ID: <3CAE5BDB.D8A085A2@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:/ > Eh?  What "freeze"?  Some random net rumor?  r  J I suggest you speak to Mr Marcello about a certain decision they seriouslyL considered 2 years ago, june timeframe if I remember correctly. They decidedT otherwise and gave VMS its small renaissance marketing budget to turn things around.  K > Wow.  What basis of facts do you have?  We're talking about the plans for E > V8.0 and what "should" be in a major release.  We're working on COEm > certification.   etc etcr  N In all fairness, the Alpha engineers also had plenty of plans for the chip andI there was a team working on the next generation EV8 already. But that wasi killed unceremoniously.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:48:56 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itC Message-ID: <Ieur8.134395$VJ1.11389758@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:YBrr8.1970$fL6.39887@news.cpqcorp.net...  >s7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee< > news:Hinr8.15703$w7.1146187@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >nK > > It was only three years ago that a VMS code freeze was planned for nextaI > > year.  That decision got changed (perhaps not coincidentally at about/ thenK > > same time the solemn long-term commitments to Alpha were reaffirmed...)- > and-8 > > VMS enjoyed its small (but promising) 'renaissance'. > >  >mG > Eh?  What "freeze"?  Some random net rumor?  There was never a freezei > planned on the floor.1  I Whatever your mistaken impressions, a freeze was indeed planned back thendL (and then reconsidered), as stated by someone with the authority to fire notJ only you but several layers of management above you.  And your presumptionJ that Compaq couldn't possibly have had such plans without having consultedK with you first seems amusingly at odds with your previous statement that aseJ an engineer you have no influence on corporate decisions - but consistency isn't exactly your strong suit.w  L And (not that the above source was in any way less than completely credible)K Curly himself, a bit before formally having ascended to the throne, made anLJ off-hand reference to this at a sales meeting.  Guess you must have missed6 that one too:  perhaps it conflicted with a golf date.  5   What there was, was "landing zones" to lengthen the L > time that a customer could ride a functional release during the Y2K panic. >gL > > Since then, the renaissance has fizzled (as I suggested it would fifteenL > > months ago in the 'letter to Curly' post Rob cited) and VMS has returned > toI > > about the same state it was in when the freeze was planned.  A lot ofl thefK > > same upper management is still in charge, and will move to HP retaining L > > similar responsibilities.  Any belief that the 'commitments' (tepid onesJ > > compared with those made to Alpha) are any more binding than the Alpha* > > promises seems rather hard to justify. > >n >eK > Wow.  What basis of facts do you have?  We're talking about the plans foraE > V8.0 and what "should" be in a major release.  We're working on COEsI > certification.  We have UNIX compatbility projects underway.  We have 4mL > releases (internal and then external) of IA64 planned to get us to a fullyK > compatable/capable customer release.  What exact "state" have we returnedq > to?t  K Except for the port to Itanic (the absolute minimum that Compaq could do totF keep VMS perceived as viable at all rather than stranded on Alpha likeI Tru64, not to mention the question of whether Intel is underwriting it as E part of the Alpha deal), you've returned to at most the same level ofeH development (and obscurity in the Compaq marketing lexicon) that you hadH three years ago.  That level wasn't sufficient to protect you from beingK seriously considered for execution then, so there's little reason to expectgG it to protect you now should the wind blow even slightly the wrong way.t     We think VMS has a future.  I Of course you do.  You likely thought Alpha had a future as well.  And ofnL course many like you were sure that the VMS 'renaissance' was only the start of an accelerating upswing.   L As prophets in this area, you rank well below a coin-flip in accuracy (whileC other less-biased observers have done far better).  But given VMS'swG sheltered/imprisoned status within Compaq, perhaps you have the kind ofsG co-dependency on Compaq that kidnap victims are reputed to develop with  their captors.  *   We are writing new functionality, addingJ > new devices.  Planning the launch of Marvel.  Porting to IA64.  Everyone who K > I have talked to inside and outside of VMS in Compaq believes that VMS is % > very well positioned in the new HP.t > L > > So I repeat:  the *only* way to *ensure* a more promising future for VMS > isL > > to get rid of that management and its mentality.  Period.  Anything else > isC > > just aimed at possibly delaying VMS's demise, and presenting itt	 otherwisea > isB > > an attempt to keep it alive for as long as *you* care about by
 suggestingK > > that following your strategy will keep it alive for as long as *others*t > care/ > > about (a morally dubious position at best).i > >  >hK > And you think that somehow whining and causing FUD in this newsgroup willf do3 > it?  Who do you want to manage the company?  You?m  F As others have stated, a trained monkey would be an improvement, and I3 suspect I could do at least a bit better than that.    - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:41:47 -0000% From: "Mike Cukr" <cukr@massnet1.net> 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it7 Message-ID: <9Xur8.13316$Hr6.217460@news.webusenet.com>w  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CAE5BDB.D8A085A2@videotron.ca... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:/ > > Eh?  What "freeze"?  Some random net rumor?c >mL > I suggest you speak to Mr Marcello about a certain decision they seriouslyF > considered 2 years ago, june timeframe if I remember correctly. They decidedoG > otherwise and gave VMS its small renaissance marketing budget to turnr things around. >tI > > Wow.  What basis of facts do you have?  We're talking about the plansy foruG > > V8.0 and what "should" be in a major release.  We're working on COEv > > certification. >a	 > etc etco >tL > In all fairness, the Alpha engineers also had plenty of plans for the chip andrK > there was a team working on the next generation EV8 already. But that wasr > killed unceremoniously.h  J No point in beating up Fred, he probibly knows less than just about anyone elseJ on the planet about what may or may not happen to VAX/VMS.  As an employeeK he will be the last to know if management decides to pull the plug and then 	 only whensK a security type hands him a pice of paper and a bankers box to put his deskd contentsL into before being escorted from the building.  As for now, he can only spout the currentl
 company line.t  K If you really want to have an impact on the future of VAX/VMS buy a slug of 	 HP stock, D round up a bunch of like minded stockholders, and start a mail/phone campaign directedeL towards HPs' management/board of directors and then, by all means attend the next6 stockholders meeting and express your views there too.   --soapbox mode off Mike   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:44:38 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>2 Subject: RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it/ Message-ID: <uasuqco4ot4378@corp.supernews.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   > JF - > A >>>> Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?<<<l >  > Java on the server ... > G > Hey, heres another NEW financial market win for OpenVMS .. Good thingh0 > they don't read the doom-n-gloom stuff here... > F > http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html - February 21, > 2002H > "Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, New Contracts at Minneapolis > Grain Exchange"a >  > :-)n > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultants > Compaq Canada Corp.h > Professional Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660a > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] > Sent: April 5, 2002 10:52 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 > Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it >  >  > "Main, Kerry" wrote:H >> "As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,I >> onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing system. > I >> and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's OpenVMSo >  >> AlphaServer systems." > ; > Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?e >   G OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow sI claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this   true???e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 04:51:45 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it' Message-ID: <3CAE8155.792D136F@fsi.net>r   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > > JF - > >dC > >>>> Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?<<<n > >s > > Java on the server ... > >tI > > Hey, heres another NEW financial market win for OpenVMS .. Good thingo2 > > they don't read the doom-n-gloom stuff here... > >eH > > http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html - February 21, > > 2002J > > "Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, New Contracts at Minneapolis > > Grain Exchange"o > >m > > :-): > >P > > Regards, > >o > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant. > > Compaq Canada Corp.  > > Professional Servicesg > > Voice: 613-592-4660s > > Fax  :  819-772-7036  > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com > >t > >t > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]  > > Sent: April 5, 2002 10:52 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como6 > > Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it > >O > >i > > "Main, Kerry" wrote:J > >> "As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,K > >> onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing systemd > >nK > >> and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's OpenVMS  > >d > >> AlphaServer systems." > >w= > > Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?F > >h > H > OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellowJ > claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this	 > true???t  G Well, probably not far off base. Maybe no new databases or 3gl programsrG or such, but maybe many of the more portable forms - java, perl, etc. -r< can be used with few or no changes on VMS, UN*X, NT/W2K, ...  C Seems to me, FWIW, the only new development being done in any greathG measure is for Windows and/or Linux, and most of that is really nothingiF "new", just new ways to use the same old APIs for multimedia and such.  > Strictly my opinion, though, and probably not very accurate...   -- r David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/5   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 00:30:49 GMTP# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Compaq>F Message-ID: <Zkrr8.6326$cN1.6141@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Technology%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_tL opright_tech&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=ad_right1_technology&bt=ad_posA ition1_technology&middle=ad_frame2_technology&s=APK0wrxXaSGV3bGV0r     04/05 00:05n= Hewlett-Packard Judge Is Known for Balance in Corporate Cases  By Phil Milfordz    H Wilmington, Delaware, April 5 (Bloomberg) -- The fate of Hewlett-PackardK Co.'s $18.7 billion buyout of rival Compaq Computer Corp. lies in the handsuG of a judge who's known for his even-handed approach to disputes betweene$ shareholders and corporate officers.  F Chancellor William B. Chandler III is the senior judge on the Delaware= Chancery Court, which decides lawsuits involving thousands ofhF Delaware-incorporated companies, including half of the Fortune 500. OnH Sunday in Wilmington, he'll hear Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a+ lawsuit challenging the Compaq acquisition.   G ``He's highly respected. I think he strikes a very good balance betweenrK management prerogative and shareholder prerogative,'' said Charles Elson, ahL law professor at Stetson College in St. Petersburg, Florida, and director ofB the Center for Corporate Governance at the University of Delaware.  A Chandler has experience with high-profile disputes over corporatexL transactions, having decided cases involving WorldCom Inc. and Hilton HotelsJ Corp. A major focus of his 210-year-old court, which traces its history toJ England's High Court of Chancery, is deciding the fairness of acquisitions7 in which stockholders seek more money for their shares.e       'Respected' Courtf  H ``It's the best and most respected business court in the country,'' said Elson.  F Chandler and the court's four vice chancellors also rule on derivativeF complaints, where shareholders sue directors on behalf of the company,L alleging mismanagement. There are also more routine cases such as trusts and$ neighborhood property line disputes.  H In one recent highly publicized case, a chancery judge decided last yearK that Tyson Foods Inc. must complete a $4.7 billion buyout of beef processord, IBP Inc. after Tyson backed out of the deal.  K Elson describes Chandler as ``thoughtful, polite and intelligent'' and sayso' ``I believe he'll do a very fair job.''-  E ``He's an excellent judge, very hard-working,'' said corporate lawyermG Stephen Radin of Weil, Gotshal & Manges in New York, who shares Elson's  views of Chandler's abilities.  F ``I think he strikes an appropriate balance'' between the interests ofF management and shareholders, said Radin, who appears often in Chancery Court.       Rural Roots.  J Chandler, a husband and father of two who turns 51 this year, has tried toH stay close to his roots in rural Sussex County, where chickens outnumberK people by a wide margin. In 1997, he told an interviewer that he declined alJ federal judgeship because he didn't want to move his family to Wilmington, the state's largest city.i  K Chandler still lives in Dagsboro, Delaware, the tiny town where he grew up.6  I He hears many of his cases in the Sussex County Courthouse, often using asC videophone to communicate with out-of-town litigants appearing in ae Wilmington courtroom.   I Chandler, a Republican, earned a bachelor's degree from the University ofoJ Delaware as a philosophy and political science major and holds law degrees: from the University of South Carolina and Yale University.  L Admitted to the bar in 1976, he served as a law clerk for a federal judge inJ Wilmington and worked as a law professor at the University of Alabama fromG 1979 to 1981 teaching about the legislative process, commercial law and-H legal remedies. He then returned to Delaware to become legal counsel for" then-Governor Pierre S. DuPont IV.  G Chandler worked for the law firm of Morris, Nichols, Arsht & Tunnell inAL Georgetown, Delaware, from 1983 to 1985. He was appointed associate judge ofL Superior Court for Sussex County, became a vice chancellor of Chancery CourtC in 1989 and took the post of chancellor for a 12-year-term in 1997.p       Sunday Hearing  I On Sunday, Chandler is to hear Hewlett-Packard's arguments to dismiss thesG suit by Walter Hewlett, who leads a family group with 18 percent of thelE shares that opposes the Compaq purchase. Hewlett, a son of co-founderlL William Hewlett, claims the Palo Alto, California-based company bought votes: from Deutsche Bank to win the proxy fight over the buyout.  J While shareholders' votes haven't been officially tallied, Chief ExecutiveI Officer Carly Fiorina said March 19 that a ``slim'' majority approved the0! purchase of Houston-based Compaq.o  J Hewlett-Packard, which reported $45.2 billion in fiscal 2001 sales, is theK world's second-largest computer maker after International Business Machinesf Corp.        Other Casesm  D In other contested corporate cases, Chandler has been known to issue two-pronged decisions.  L In an opinion in late 2000, Chandler refused to block a $4 billion buyout ofH Intermedia Communications Inc. by phone-service provider WorldCom -- yetE warned that the combined companies could face more than $2 billion inn shareholder claims.a  J WorldCom bought Intermedia last July and settled the shareholder cases for more than $400 million.s  C In October 2000, Chandler ruled that Hilton Hotels' ``poison pill'' F anti-takeover defense was valid and threw out a shareholder's lawsuit.  K While an official tally in the Hewlett-Packard proxy contest is expected in0L the next few weeks, the legal fight over the Compaq purchase may take months to resolve.s  L ``I think the parties are lucky to have someone of his caliber reviewing the case,'' Elson said.l     ------------  K So while the case may take months to resolve, shouldn't Compaq be out therenF promoting the hell out of OpenVMS and Tru64? Failure to do so would beL dereliction of duty on the part of any corporate offers who failed to do so,' and grounds for dismissal 'with cause'.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:38:26 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the CotC Message-ID: <mksr8.251068$2q2.21842155@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>"  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ news:Zkrr8.6326$cN1.6141@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...   ...e  G > So while the case may take months to resolve, shouldn't Compaq be oute therehH > promoting the hell out of OpenVMS and Tru64? Failure to do so would beJ > dereliction of duty on the part of any corporate offers who failed to do so,i) > and grounds for dismissal 'with cause'.s  J Hell, if that's true they would have been dismissed years ago - had anyone cared.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 11:51:10 -0800w( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacksl= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051151.5d37d7ec@posting.google.com>t  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CAB646C.91F7DC3B@videotron.ca>...o% > Re: code that can branch to "data".i > O > Mr Parris has stated that on VMS, it is possible to protect memory from beingr@ > executed so that one couldn't branch to a buffer for instance. > J > Is 100% sure that all VMS compilers will generate code that enable thoseP > protections, notably a program's inability to modify its own code or inability) > to execute code residing on the stack ?   K > > If the hacker is able to determine the stack frame slot with the returniM > > address, why couldn't he also modify the stack allocation instruction andpA > > insert his trojan horse in code space and execute from there?  > J > It would be difficult to execute instructions to change memory in a codeJ > space using the described method. Should the cracker (ok, hacker if he'sK > doing it on his own machine just for fun) somehow gets code to execute onX; > the stack, executable sections are not usually writeable.e > M > Try it with a C program, get a pointer to the entry point of a function andcI > try to change that first byte.I haven't tried this but you might make arK > small array or whatever on the stack, put some code in it and try to callp > it. My bet is it won't work.   Just to illustrate my point:  "               1 #include <stdio.h>             874d8             875 void xyzzy(void) { printf("xyzzy!\n"); }             876a2             877 int main( int argc, char *argv[] )       1     878     {h)       1     879         unsigned char *x;s3       1     880         x = (unsigned char *)xyzzy;o-       1     881         ((void(*)(void))x)();r"       1     882         *x = 0x00;"       1     883         return(1);             884     }    when run produces:   $ r xf xyzzy!M %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=00000208,i PC=0000024F, PSL=03C00000M/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsaL module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PC  M X               main                              882      00000033  0000024FM $w  K Check the attributes of the $CODE section. It's NOWRT and the (empty) $DATAdJ section is NOEXE.  Static variables go in $DATA. I don't know offhand whatJ the stack area looks like but I suspect it's NOEXE too. This boils down toL what's been said earlier, normally code can't be written over and data can't be executed.  P Psect Name      Module Name       Base     End           Length            Align                 AttributesP ----------      -----------       ----     ---           ------            -----                 ----------O $DATA                           00000200 00000200 00000000 (          0.) LONG e4 2   PIC,USR,CON,REL,LCL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  RD,  WRT,NOVECQ                 X               00000200 00000200 00000000 (          0.) LONG  2o  O $CODE                           00000200 00000271 00000072 (        114.) QUAD a4 3   PIC,USR,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,  EXE,  RD,NOWRT,NOVECQ                 X               00000200 00000271 00000072 (        114.) QUAD  3W   -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 11:56:20 -0800l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks-= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051156.2b1f149e@posting.google.com>u  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CAB646C.91F7DC3B@videotron.ca>...6% > Re: code that can branch to "data".  > O > Mr Parris has stated that on VMS, it is possible to protect memory from beingr@ > executed so that one couldn't branch to a buffer for instance. > J > Is 100% sure that all VMS compilers will generate code that enable thoseP > protections, notably a program's inability to modify its own code or inability) > to execute code residing on the stack ?V  C and I have a perfect example of this ... from process softwares web  site,.D versions of tcpware/multinet on vms were either not affected or gave access, violations ... care to reply to this Andrew?    ( SNMP Inquiry - Cert Advisory CA-2002-03 P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  	 Question:   D Are either MultiNet or TCPware affected by CERT Advisory CA-2002-03A in Many Implementations of the Simple Network Management Protocole  (SNMP), dated February 12, 2002?   Answer:o  F These SNMP vulnerabilities do NOT pose security risks for MultiNet andF TCPware. MultiNet V4.4A is not vulnerable to these SNMP issues at all.D MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware have minor problems with access violationsA (resulting in the SNMP process dying), but pose no security risk.sC Patches for MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware V5.5-3 are available from thelE TCPware ECO Database and the MultiNet ECO database. Use the followingo
 kit names:   MultiNet V4.3A: SNMP-020_A043p TCPware V5.5-3: SNMPD_V553P011   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 19:28:07 GMTg1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!e+ Message-ID: <a8kts7$3c6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  / In article <uaqnsigg27uq65@news.supernews.com>,e4  "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:M |> The intention of Biggy was meant to apply to 1GB Supersizing but I believe B |> "supersize" is a registered trademark of Macdonalds Corporation |>  J |> We have been sued for using a trademark once already, so, of course, We" |> wouldn't dare to use one again.  ' I guess this just ins't your day!!  :-)n   |> GF |> To "biggy" is the same as to Supersize (tm) - without the trademark |> infringements.s |> _L |> Of course, I could go into the absolute pedant bashing mode, but I am tooJ |> worried about getting the apostrophies in the wrong place to do so now. |>   |> dC |> Anyway - I'll say it again - Biggy to 1GB for an additional $500   D I'm pretty sure you'll find the term "Bigee" is also trademarked by : one of the other burger barns (oops. that's a TM too.  :-)  5 Wish I could afford one of them.  Or even a cluster!!r  
 All the best.p   bill   -- 5J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:31:18 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>v% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! / Message-ID: <uas2a58uihkaf0@news.supernews.com>h  I We will soon be having to ask the major US Corporations for permission to  write anything that may be in the Dictionary.  I I saw a trademark sign after some common phrase the other day on t' telly0  . I think it was "it's a beautiful morning" (tm)  ! Anyone sensing the rediculous ???R   DT      6 Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageD news:7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178438C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com... > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu [mailto:carl@gerg.tamu.edu] >aA > > What's wrong with "upgrade"? Or, for that matter, "increase"?r > > > You might find "upgrade" to be a trademark of microshaft. ;) >m > Chrisr >. > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer_ > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >r > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");p > '  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:15:10 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> % Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! + Message-ID: <3CAE2FFE.8C6B5FAD@caltech.edu>6   "Island (hpaq.net)" wrote: > K > We will soon be having to ask the major US Corporations for permission toz > write anything  > that may be in the Dictionary. > K > I saw a trademark sign after some common phrase the other day on t' tellyh > 0 > I think it was "it's a beautiful morning" (tm) > # > Anyone sensing the rediculous ???l  > That's "truly ridiculous"(tm).  I kid you not (ok, that one is classified as DEAD now.)   9 For hours of fun visit www.uspto.gov and poke around withW the trademarks dictionary:  = http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=brwsidx&state=h9dkhv.4.1A  > The vast majority of these are only registered as a particular= way of writing the name.  Microsoft, on the other hand, seemsw? to have trademarked the term "windows" for every imaginable useS< having to do with an electronic device, thereby providing an% endless source of income for lawyers.r  F VMS is in there too, usually NOT having anything to do with computers.
 For instance:f    Word Mark   VMS  Goods and Services.O   IC 037. US 100 103 106. G & S: Restorative maintenance services for all types  of roadways,H                           bridges, roadside lighting and other facilitie     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 20:43 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!i, Message-ID: <5APR200220432209@gerg.tamu.edu>  5 "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes... J }We will soon be having to ask the major US Corporations for permission to }write anythingg }that may be in the Dictionary.s } J }I saw a trademark sign after some common phrase the other day on t' telly } / }I think it was "it's a beautiful morning" (tm)e } " }Anyone sensing the rediculous ??? }  }DTt  D Well, I am not a lawyer but... technically the trademarks only applyC to using the trademarked item within specific contexts. (And it canXB also apply only if the item has a specific appearance, such as theB font or other design elements - many "common word" trademarks fallC into this area, or at least they used to. A classic example is thatl@ in the mid 80's TSR Inc. appeard to have a trademark on the termF "Nazi", but it actually applied to the whole appearance of a cardboardB gamepiece, including an illustration of a Nazi, used in the IndianD Jones game that they produced - and it would only have been relevantB in the game industry.) That's why there is both a VAX computer andF a VAX vacuum cleaner - different areas where the product is not likely to be confused.'  > Realistically, any lawsuit to get you to stop usig "biggy", or? for that matter "supersize", should go in your favor as you area@ not applying them to food - unless perhaps the companies holdingB the trademark got it for more than just the normally relevant area? (I don't know how many areas there are, but there are a bunch).rA But it could still cost you a small fortune just to fight for theh' right to use some silly word or phrase.r   And it is rather rediculous.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 21:56:41 -0800l- From: merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) , Subject: Re: vms hobbyist licenseing problem= Message-ID: <b6bf97d5.0204052156.5b703ff7@posting.google.com>h  C That was it. I had run cluster config  , just recently to allow mope boots of 2 4000 vlc I have    r merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) wrote in message news:<b6bf97d5.0204022147.78a353fd@posting.google.com>... > Hi > H > I seem to be having some problems getting my layered products licensedF > up. I recently download this years layeded prod DCL licese script asD > well as the vax-vms license ran them "lic load *" them "lic ena *"H > them but I still can't telnet to or set host to the server in question) > any ideas on what I am forgetting to doc >  >  >  > info:  > = > License	Database	File:	SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]LMF$LICENSE.LDB;1' > Created	on:	19-MAR-2002l > Created	by	user:	SYSTEM  > Created	by	LMF	Version:	V1.2 > % > -----------------------------------p > DVNETEND	DEC > DVNETEND	DEC > DVNETEXT	DEC > DVNETEXT	DEC >  >  >  >  > Created	on:	19-MAR-2002  > Created	by	user:	SYSTEMi > Created	by	LMF	Version:	V1.2 > % > -----------------------------------a > Issuer:	DECUSo( > Authorization:	DECUS-USA-xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Product	Name:	DVNETEND > Producer:	DEC 
 > Units:	0 > Version:	0.0 > Release	Date:	1-SEP-2002" > PAK	Termination	Date:	1-SEP-2002 > Availability:	0  > Activity:	000000100.
 > Options: > Hardware	ID: >  > Revision	Level:	4  > Status:	Active > Command:	ENABLEa > Modified	by	user:	SYSTEM% > Modified	on:	2-APR-2002	01:11:21.47  >  >  >  > $	set	host	0 > < > Welcome	to	OpenVMS	(TM)	VAX	Operating	System,	Version	V7.2 >  > Username:	system > Password:r0 > No	license	is	active	for	this	software	product- > %REM-S-END,	control	returned	to	node	KANK::m > $n >  >  >  >  > 
 > and for tcpc > % > -----------------------------------v > Issuer:	DECUSa( > Authorization:	DECUS-USA-903826-312756 > Product	Name:	UCXg > Producer:	DECi
 > Units:	0 > Version:	0.0 > Release	Date:	1-SEP-2002" > PAK	Termination	Date:	1-SEP-2002 > Availability:	0e > Activity:	000000100t
 > Options: > Hardware	ID: >  > Revision	Level:	2  > Status:	Active > Command:	ENABLEb > Modified	by	user:	SYSTEM% > Modified	on:	2-APR-2002	01:11:31.53e >  >  >  > $	TELNET	192.168.0.123, > %TELNET-I-TRYING,	Trying	...	192.168.0.123< > %TELNET-I-SESSION,	Session	01,	host	192.168.0.123,	port	23* > -TELNET-I-ESCAPE,	Escape	character	is	^] > < > Welcome	to	OpenVMS	(TM)	VAX	Operating	System,	Version	V7.2 >  > Username:	system > Password: 0 > No	license	is	active	for	this	software	product/ > %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED,	Remote	connection	closed < > -TELNET-I-SESSION,	Session	01,	host	192.168.0.123,	port	23 > $a   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Apr 2002 05:21:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Wanted: the VMS pedigree - Message-ID: <87zo0hq1sa.fsf@prep.synonet.com>h  2 prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) writes:  F > design ideas from the Xerox Alto.  NT is a microkernel-based OS thatA > owes nothing to MS/DOS and is probably closer to VAXeln than toe
 > VAX/VMS.  D The NT kernel is 'spelling error for spelling error' compatable with@ MICA, the VMS 3.4 derived OS for Titan or Prism(?). VAXEln is anF enbeded system, originally with only Pascal, but later other compilers( as well. It is still on the Vax CONDIST.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 22:23:48 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)sK Subject: Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?o: Message-ID: <Utpr8.14129$wt5.329284@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  K Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:tN : In article <a8jfe3$jlq$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 	 : writes: ? : >What operating system was www.openvms.digital.com running onr? : >September 22, 1998, the day that the OpenVMS home page read:o : >dC : >  "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"  : >d- : >Was it OpenVMS, Digital Unix, or Windows ?t : $ : VMS (with the Purveyor webserver). :  : Why? : B In another forum, the issue of VMS being unhackable was mentioned,C and someone questioned the issue because of a .sig I sometimes use:-  D       "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"C           posted on www.openvms.digital.com on or about Sep 22,1998 1                            Quashed on Sep 23,1998D:            but saved on ftp://atlas.csd.net/pub/vms100.jpg  < Sounds like the comment about NT V8.0 was an inside job. ;-)  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 16:21:28 -0800s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)K Subject: Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?a= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051621.6db52b8f@posting.google.com>i   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0BFC2.87F2805A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...U > In article <a8jfe3$jlq$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:k? > >What operating system was www.openvms.digital.com running ont? > >September 22, 1998, the day that the OpenVMS home page read:: > >6C > >  "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"i > > - > >Was it OpenVMS, Digital Unix, or Windows ?b > $ > VMS (with the Purveyor webserver). >  > Why? > 
 > -- Alan  > Q > ===============================================================================o2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 O >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210tQ > ===============================================================================o  J you mean the best, easiest web server to configure and maintain, purveyor!   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 11:21:48 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Cluo= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204051121.6c3c40a7@posting.google.com>e   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CADC4EE.7070407@sun.com>... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:s > K > > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote ini, > > message news:3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com... > >   ' > Sun F15K 76 CPU's 4100 users SAP 4.6C  > + > Compaq GS320 32 CPU's 2720 users SAP 4.0b  > 4 > Ohh looks like Alphas not doing too badly but then > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisonn  9 and just wait until EV7 hits ... have you looked at those 9 numbers yet?  your 80 million chip boxes were starting to  catch up when POW!  EV7!  F 	Marvel's performance potential isn't any great secret anymore... not < 	that it is out on the Web for one and all alike to gaze at:  5 www.eecs.umich.edu/vlsi_seminar/f01/slides/bannon.pdf-  + 	Check out slide 29, slide 30 and slide 31.t  ? 	At average latency of 157 ns and worst case latency of 175 ns,AB 	for a "13" processor EV7 has better latency than most 4 processor@ 	boxes.  Bandwidth shows up in a frightening way.  Stream scales@ 	linerally.  That is unheard of!  Check out 32 processor results@ 	on slide 31.. 150000 GB/sec.  Compare and contrast Power4 (best 	out there) at 22000 GB/sec:  : 	http://www.cs.virginia.edu/stream/standard/Bandwidth.html  = 	Again, not to be overlooked... linear scaling in bandwdith, w 	unprecedented!  And yes....  M http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=C2AnvK.GB5%40news.udel.edu&output=gplain   & 		"It's the memory bandwidth, stupid!" 			-- John D. McCalpin  ? 	Average latency at 250 ns for 64 processors, worst case 391 ns-H 	for a single processor, 355 ns for 4 others, etc.  Compare and contrastB 	to 64 flat SMP boxes (at around 400 ns - best case - worst case - 	average ---- i.e. SMP!)  G 	But ah.... some applications are also very latency sensitive... so it 0 	is also a matter of latency!   < 	The box will be winning all head to head benchmarks and for2 	most RFPs... all bake-offs!  Get used to it . . .   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 19:43:24 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...-+ Message-ID: <a8kuos$3c6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>r  3 In article <8IosiJWJi8Vh@eisner.encompasserve.org>,l0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:_ |> In article <3CACD6F8.DB80E778@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:o |> > tQ |> > 1- HP hasn't gone thorugh the VAX-Alpha migration.  So it isn't a given that # |> > HP will know how to handle it.i |>  F |>    HP has gone through the "absorb Apollo" and the 68000 to HP-PARCK |>    transitions.  They dropped the old systems a lot faster than DEC did,e3 |>    and still quite a bit faster than Compaq has.e |> e  E I certainly hope your not hinting that VMS's fate is likely to be thei same as DomainIX.u   billB [Who actually had a 68K based Apollo at home but could only run it@ during the winter.  Anyone who ever worked with one knows why!!] -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:26:03 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ... ' Message-ID: <3CAE5F2D.B9C115FF@fsi.net>c   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CAD08EA.E72C383E@fsi.net...e > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > >sF > > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message1 > news:<NzZq8.1865$fL6.37332@news.cpqcorp.net>...lH > > > > Ah, sorry.  There was a metaphoric "her" - "the morally bankrupt	 > tramp".oL > > > > Nothing personal or sexist.  Yup.  No problem.  It wasn't responding > to theM > > > > sentence above it, and refering to "her" or to [abortion] in relation. > toD > > > > "Carly's baby".  Yup.  No problem.  I read too much into it. > > >  > > > Wait a minute. > > >uI > > > > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CABB877.A2CBF449@fsi.net>..." > > > > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: 
 > > > > >>L > > > > >> David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CAA7950.35775270@fsi.net>...
 > > > > >> > > > > >> >I > > > > >> >It isn't Carly's "baby" until the results of the HP votes aree > known. > > > > >> >K > > > > >> >...and at 20+ years, I believe that would constitute O.S.-cide,o
 > not justN > > > > >> >another spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp exercising > heri? > > > > >> >"right" to attack and destroy a defenseless unborn.p > > >aI > > > Let's see. In sentence 1 you explicitly say "Carly's baby". Then inwH > > > the very next sentence you say "... her ... a defenseless unborn".F > > > Therefore, "her" is a pronoun referring to Carly and unborn must- > > > therefore be referring to Carly's baby.h > > >eJ > > > > >> What is with you?  Do you have some personal insight into Carly > (and I
 > > > >  only L > > > > >> call her Carly because I can never remember how to spell her last > name)?L > > > > >> Where do you get off calling her (I don't see another subject you > couldn > > > >  becN > > > > >> talking about) a "spineless, unprincipled, morally bankrupt tramp".
 > > > > >>J > > > > >> In fact, I don't really get the hostility against HP, let alone > it's CEO.d> > > > > >> What exactly have they done to warrent such hatred?	 > > > > > J > > > > >I think you're reading a context into that which doesn't actually > exist.J > > > > >Read it again and you'll find that nowhere do I actually refer to > anyoneN > > > > >by name. The entire statement, like the statement to which if refers, > is$ > > > > >metaphoric, not accusatory. > > >nL > > > You refer to Carly and her baby in the previous sentence! So I believe' > > > Fred got it right the first time.F > >8K > > ...except that the whole thing is still a metaphor: "baby" = "product",mK > > "abortion" = "o.s.-cide". Substitue names and/or personal references asuD > > you like, the result is the same. No accusations, just metaphor. > >tL > > The derrogations are drawn from my own violent disgust over a topic thatK > > I won't go into here; however, they are still a metaphoric reference to(J > > the collegiate quality business logic that has stuffed both Compaq and5 > > HP down the crapper (YAM - Yet Another Metaphor).: > >  > > Got it now?i > >h > H > What was the part of the metaphor that dealt with being a tramp (and aN > morally bankrupt one at that)?  I'm almost up to speed now.  Bear with me, I1 > couldn't follow the plot of Eraser Head either.e  D *IF* the HP stockholders approve the merger, and *IF* she decides toD give VMS the axe, then as - who the hell was it? I gotta go back andF look. Hold on a sec. ... Oh yeah - JF Mezei said, she would be _actingG like_ a "tramp (and a morally bankrupt one at that)", at which point it $ changes from a metaphor to a simile.  3 I still have a problem with this equation, however:p   "acting like" = "is"  D For some reason (in my experience, at least), 80% or more of a givenE audience will interpret "acting like" as "is" instead of accepting itaF unedited. That is, they make it a direct assignment of quality instead; of leaving it a comparison of apparently similar qualities.   F Possessing a measured IQ of only 80, I'm unable to understand why that8 happens, why people do that. Could someone enlighten me?   -- N David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 19:46:59 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)f= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)-+ Message-ID: <a8kuvj$3c6$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>0  3 In article <782SP7j8ZCTQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:V |> In article <3CAD26C4.49E4C155@earthlink.net>, ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> writes:' |> >       1     882         *x = 0x00;m |> U |> > when run produces:s |> >  
 |> > $ r x |> > xyzzy!aR |> > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=00000208, |> > PC=0000024F, PSL=03C000004 |> > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsQ |> > module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PCy |> > aR |> > X               main                              882      00000033  0000024F |>  H |>    OK, so you've shown that NOWRT on the $CODE$ section is enforced. H |>    VMS has always enforced NOWRT on psects.  The hardware supports it@ |>    and the linker and image activator conspire to make it so. |> 'H |>    I keep seeing claims that NOEXE is also enforced.  I've never seenJ |>    any support for this in either the VAX or Alpha architectures.  LINK. |>    just uses NOEXE as an optimization hint. |> tI |>    You have proof that NOEXE is enforced?  If so, I'll stop working ont% |>    my demonstration that it isn't.p |> a  G Two questions if people here don't mind this being continued by someone ) who doesn't know but would like to learn.u  G Does this NOWRT/NOEXE stuff have anything to do with the difficulty VMS 1 seems to have implimenting the UNIX fork() call??f  < Would NOEXE apply to memory space allocated using malloc()??   bill   -- jJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 00:40:43 GMT0# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> = Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)e- Message-ID: <3CAE4403.9E2917C1@earthlink.net>.   Bob Koehler wrote: > U > In article <3CAD26C4.49E4C155@earthlink.net>, ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> writes: & > >       1     882         *x = 0x00; >  > > when run produces: > >d	 > > $ r x7
 > > xyzzy!Q > > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=00000208,r > > PC=0000024F, PSL=03C00000e3 > > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsrP > > module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PC > >tQ > > X               main                              882      00000033  0000024F  > F >    OK, so you've shown that NOWRT on the $CODE$ section is enforced.G >    VMS has always enforced NOWRT on psects.  The hardware supports ite? >    and the linker and image activator conspire to make it so.- > G >    I keep seeing claims that NOEXE is also enforced.  I've never seen I >    any support for this in either the VAX or Alpha architectures.  LINKe- >    just uses NOEXE as an optimization hint.  > H >    You have proof that NOEXE is enforced?  If so, I'll stop working on$ >    my demonstration that it isn't.  E I don't have proof that NOEXE is enforced and I'll go along with your-G claim that it isn't. I've played around with executing stuff in buffersiE in $DATA before and had no interference from NOEXE.  Here's a trivial  example:   showing xyzzy is 36 bytes long:d=            1227 int xyzzy(void) { int x=1;  x++; return(x); } 6                                           0020  XYZZY:J                                     0000  0020          .entry  XYZZY,^m<>E                               5E 08 C2    0022          subl2   #8,spnI                            F8 AD 01 D0    0025          movl    #1,-8(fp)-L                         5C 01 F8 AD C1    0029          addl3   -8(fp),#1,apI                            F8 AD 5C D0    002E          movl    ap,-8(fp)0M                         FC AD F8 AD D0    0032          movl    -8(fp),-4(fp)iH                                  03 11    0037          brb     noname.2B                                  50 D5    0039          tstl    r0;                                     01    003B          nop 9                                           003C  noname.2:2I                          50 FFFC CD D0    003C          movl    -4(fp),r0 ;                                     04    0041          rete;                                     04    0042          ret	;                                     01    0043          nope  G Here's the whole thing without /machine, x1 will be in $DATA because ofS static:i  "               1 #include <stdio.h>#             874 #include <string.h>             12260=            1227 int xyzzy(void) { int x=1;  x++; return(x); }             1228e2            1229 int main( int argc, char *argv[] )       1    1230     {n)       1    1231         unsigned char *x;e       1    1232         int y;4       1    1233         static unsigned char x1[64];3       1    1234         x = (unsigned char *)xyzzy;n0       1    1235         y = ((int(*)(void))x)();+       1    1236         printf("y=%d\n",y); (       1    1237         memcpy(x1,x,36);:       1    1238         printf("x1 address: %x\n",&x1[0]);'       1    1239         fflush(stdout); 5       1    1240         y = ((int(*)(void))&x1[0])(); +       1    1241         printf("y=%d\n",y);6"       1    1242         return(1);            1243     }             1244   P Psect Name      Module Name       Base     End           Length            Align                 AttributesP ----------      -----------       ----     ---           ------            -----                 ----------O $DATA                           00000200 0000023F 00000040 (         64.) QUAD W4 3   PIC,USR,CON,REL,LCL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  RD,  WRT,NOVECQ                 Y               00000200 0000023F 00000040 (         64.) QUAD  3n  O $CODE                           00000400 00000501 00000102 (        258.) QUAD f4 3   PIC,USR,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,  EXE,  RD,NOWRT,NOVECQ                 Y               00000400 00000501 00000102 (        258.) QUAD  3r   And run: $ r y1 y=2t x1 address: 200p y=2  $e  L No sweat, $DATA's NOEXE ignored. Here's the fun part, making x1 an automatic@ variable (and thus putting it on the stack) makes no difference:   $ r yw y=2h x1 address: 7feb993c y=2  $h  H Looks like bounds checking is important and not just for compliance withK the usual ideas of good practices. There are probably a lot of things wrong K with my approach to showing this but NOEXE is ignored in at least one case.tK Maybe more if anyone can shed some light on the attributes of stack memory.   G Putting code in a buffer and calling it is fun but does anyone have anyu practical use for it?l   -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Apr 2002 20:07:32 -0600d- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)-3 Message-ID: <Rw6jMCBN4Tx6@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  _ In article <a8kuvj$3c6$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:g  I > Does this NOWRT/NOEXE stuff have anything to do with the difficulty VMSe3 > seems to have implimenting the UNIX fork() call??o  ? That has more to do with process structure and reference counts@B internal to the operating system.  This relates to a clean rundown etc.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.189 ************************