1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 06 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 190       Contents: Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures ? Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...  Re: CMS library repair Re: DCL command procedure  Re: DCL command procedure  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX . Re: KZPBA -> HSZ70 : "transport timeout" error Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 Re: OT Re: British Summer Time) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it  Rdb Technical Forums for 2002 P Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the CoP RE: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the CoP Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Co Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!! Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!P Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? ( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 16:34:48 GMT & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures% Message-ID: <a8n838$t2o@web.nmti.com>   M In article <a8ki0e$c5c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>, hack <hack@watson.ibm.com> wrote: L > When we (the group that developed the experimental OS that I'm still usingJ > 20 years later) developed our network protocols over Ethernet, we had NOJ > connection timeouts whatsoever.  (Time only entered into the exponentialM > backoff algorithm at the lowest level, below connections.)  This meant that M > we could start a remote-backup process on Friday night and see it completed N > on Monday morning even though the network was scheduled for maintenance overN > the weekend (involving cutting and rerouting cables).  Most other people had; > to worry about this (they were using TCP-based services).   < What does their using TCP-based services have to do with it?  J Or do you mean "they were using applications that either implemented theirJ own timeouts, or set TCP socket options to force timeouts, or were using a= network stack that forced timeouts for some perverse reason"?   J I have certainly had sessions maintained through hours-long interruptions,G and I was absolutely flabbergasted the first time I had a Windows-based I system CLOSE ALL MY NETWORK CONNECTIONS when I moved a network cable from ? the 10M hub under my desk to the nice new 100M port on my wall.   J There's some really broken network stacks and applications, but TCP itselfG should happily keep resending packets into the void as long as need be.    --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 18:24:10 GMT & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures% Message-ID: <a8nega$7lg@web.nmti.com>   H One thing that doesn't seem to be considered is how long downtime has toG last to have an effect. One person commented that a 10 hour downtime in E 10 years is better than 10 30 second downtimes per year over the same  period.   I That really depends on the system, and what that downtime involves. Let's I say it's a 911 system: if 10 times a year everyone needs to wait an extra F 30 seconds for a dialtone, or for their phone number to show up on theN operator's display, that's unlikely to have nearly as significant consequencesJ as a five minute downtime every other year, let alone the 10 hour downtimeJ described in this thread. And yet that 5 minute downtime is half the totalI downtime of the more evenly distributed failures. But if that outage cuts G callers off for 30 seconds that's long enough for humans to abandon the H call: in which case a smaller total number of outages, even if they last longer, may be better.  L In the case of the VAX clusters, a 2 minute outage while the cluster handlesK the loss of a member may make no difference at all, if the cluster is being I used for simulation or batched financial transactions, but it may lead to C catastrophic failure if it's monitoring a real-time control system.    --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 07:22:45 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) H Subject: Re: Carly's Tune, was: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-48cV4G1dSbhC@localhost>   A On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:38:31 UTC, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill   Gunshannon) wrote:   > |> Carly's Tune N > |> I met a girl who sang the blues and I asked her for some HP news, but sheN > |> just smiled and gently coughed. I went down to the gadget store where I'dI > |> bought oscilloscopes before, but the man there said they'd spun that O > |> business off. And in the boardroom the children screamed, directors cried, N > |> and Carly schemed, but not a word would they say -- about the old HP Way.Q > |> And the two men I admired most, their fabled legacy is toast, their business / > |> on a downhill coast, the day that HP died.  > |>  N > |> [Not the greatest composition that I've ever come across, but the message > |> is clear...]  > E > Mike Swaine is the first thing I read every month, usually before I = > even get the magazine back to my office from the mailroom!!   & Snap. Normally followed by Al Stevens.  F I've been reading DDJ for 20 years now and probably still have most of them.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:29:20 +0000 (UTC)5 From: dontspamlewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)  Subject: Re: CMS library repair . Message-ID: <a8nb9g$53f$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  ~ "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes in article <3CAE4F13.29039.540658@localhost> dated Sat, 6 Apr 2002 01:27:47 -0500:@ >When I do a CMS VERIFY/REPAIR on some CMS libraries, I get the  >following:  > ? >%CMS-E-ERRVER2, internal contiguous space verified with errors B >-CMS-E-MSSBLKSTR, 4 35 type blocks found on pass 1, and 1 blocks  >found on pass 24 >%CMS-E-ERRVERCON, control file verified with errors > 5 >However, the library still seems to "work" normally.  > F >These CMS libraries are accessed by different versions of CMS across D >my cluster.  Could there be some problems with that?  The versions  >are:  >  >   VAX VMS 7.3		CMS 4.1 >   Alpha VMS 7.3	CMS 4.0  >   VAX VMS 7.2		CMS 3.7-2 > F >Should I upgrade my 3.7-2 to 4.0 or 4.1?  Will that make my problems 	 >go away?   K Running different versions of software on a shared database is (in general) K a bad practice.  You should upgrade the 3.X to 4.1 right away.  I think the K only difference between 4.0 and 4.1 is improved performance (4.0 introduced ? some bad perf problems) -- you might as well upgrade that too.    L Which CMS version are you using for VERIFY/REPAIR?  If it's 3.X then yes theI upgrade might "fix" the library.  If it's 4.X then you probably corrupted K the library with 3.X and upgrading won't fix it but it will prevent similar  corruptions in the future.  H I've been running CMS V4.1 on 7.2-1 and 7.3 for 18 months now (dozens of7 users, hundreds of libraries) and it's been rock-solid.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org  PGP key available.          > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:54:28 +0200 (CEST) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>" Subject: Re: DCL command procedureJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0204061439440.18062-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  " On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Kenneth wrote:  0 >+Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure?  >  Sometime. To be precise - it is a must *after* command, where runs user mode image. <  That mean - the command line after SHOW USER, SET SECURITY," DELETE,...etc. must start with "$"9  After "CLI only" commands (like SHOW TRANSLATION, symbol 7 setting [$symbol=expression], DEFINE etc - it is "only"  highly recommended :)    >+ It's working even I don't9 >+give the $ sign on each command line in the procedures.     Not always works.
  Sequence: $ SHOW USER 	 SHOW TIME   -  will generate error.
  Sequence: $ SHOW TRANSLATION SYS$OUTPUT 	 SHOW TIME   - will work  ) >+ Then what is the use of this "$" sign?    ..beginning of command line.  
  ALWAYS !!  3  Most VMS users are not aware of the fact, that the ; "$" sign is expected in ANY command - even if interactive !   9  And the "$" prompt is only accidentally ;) the same than  the begginnig character.    Check: * $ SET PROMPT	! To be safe have the default' $ SHOW TIME	! That is the criplled form < $ $SHOW TIME	! and *that* is the proper, full DCL command !!A $ $ SHOW USER	!...that also, including allowed space separator(s)   8  You may think differrently: the preceding "$" is ALWAYS4 expected, only in some cases you can skip it and the command will still work.7  In interactive mode the case still fits :) and you can  nearly always skip it.    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:39:23 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> " Subject: Re: DCL command procedure' Message-ID: <3CAF32CC.FD6CDCDC@Free.fr>   . I have even seen DEC programmers writing this:   $if i .eq. 1 then $goto OK   D.  " "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote: > $ > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Kenneth wrote: > 2 > >+Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure? > @ >  Sometime. To be precise - it is a must *after* command, where > runs user mode image. > >  That mean - the command line after SHOW USER, SET SECURITY,$ > DELETE,...etc. must start with "$"; >  After "CLI only" commands (like SHOW TRANSLATION, symbol 9 > setting [$symbol=expression], DEFINE etc - it is "only"  > highly recommended :)  >  > >+ It's working even I don't; > >+give the $ sign on each command line in the procedures.  >  >  Not always works. >  Sequence:
 > $ SHOW USER  > SHOW TIME  >  -  will generate error. >  Sequence: > $ SHOW TRANSLATION SYS$OUTPUT  > SHOW TIME  >  - will work > + > >+ Then what is the use of this "$" sign?  >  > ..beginning of command line. >  >  ALWAYS !! > 5 >  Most VMS users are not aware of the fact, that the = > "$" sign is expected in ANY command - even if interactive !  > ; >  And the "$" prompt is only accidentally ;) the same than  > the begginnig character. > 	 >  Check: / > $ SET PROMPT    ! To be safe have the default - > $ SHOW TIME     ! That is the criplled form A > $ $SHOW TIME    ! and *that* is the proper, full DCL command !! E > $ $ SHOW USER   !...that also, including allowed space separator(s)  > : >  You may think differrently: the preceding "$" is ALWAYS6 > expected, only in some cases you can skip it and the > command will still work.9 >  In interactive mode the case still fits :) and you can  > nearly always skip it. >  >  Regards - Gotfryd >  > --G > ===================================================================== H > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") -' >                 THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME 0 > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plG > =====================================================================    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 11:11:36 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8mtfu$ila$2@bob.news.rcn.net>   / In article <uas724lblps80f@corp.supernews.com>, 3    "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote:  > K ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:a8k45j$7dl$6@bob.news.rcn.net... E >> Those are two very good people to ask about JMF and TW.  It's good % >> to hear that they're still around.  > J >    Just don't get Dawn started on the stupidity of some induviduals. You	 >may need G >    a doctor to help you put your ribs together from laughing so hard.  > G >    One of her best crackups was was around 1991 when she called John   CovertJ >    (FYI:I'm not implying John is either stupid or an inDUHvidual. It was >just a pureK >    Dawn moment) on her cellphone to ask him to pass the salt. John was at  >the/ >    other end of the VMS table in the ZK cafe.  >  >    Ring, Ring.... 8 >    Covert: Hi There. (if you know John, this is funny)1 >    Dawn: John.. Would you please pass the salt?  > = >    The look on John's face was great.. "Ya had to be there"  >  >    Ah, memories....   > My first exposure to Dawn was the time she stood up at a DECUS; (Atanta) and gave a monologue about DUMPER.  JMF and I were 7 rolling in the aisle.  I wish somebody had recorded it. : It was a very good day when she began working for TOPS-10.  < Oops.  I hope that wasn't supposed to be a secret.  JQH also< worked for a group that dealt with TOPS-10.  My!  I may know what I'm talking about...    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 11:20:34 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8mu0o$ila$4@bob.news.rcn.net>    In article  E <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204050830400.30075-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>, /    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote: , >On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:G >> Good grief!  Mark.  I wasn't in any way a god.  I only greased their @ >> axles before they were due to squeak.  Why do you think I got >> the den mother label? > 8 >Sorry, Barb, you can't escape the designator of "god".   < I sure can if I aren't one.  I worked with the gods.  I know how to ID one.   > ... A lot more people K >hacked CUSPs than hacked monitor code, and everybody who hacked CUSPs knew  >about BAH.   - That's only because I've got a mouth on me.      /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 11:18:27 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX+ Message-ID: <a8mtsq$ila$3@bob.news.rcn.net>   5 In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-lWybcVJEsL2J@localhost>, 1    djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) wrote: : >On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:53:55 UTC, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > 2 >> In article <U4Kq8.286$o3.4403@typhoon.bart.nl>,) >>    "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote: 	 >> >Fred,  >> >H >> >one question: how many 10/20's did DEC/Digital sell and how many VMS >> >systems?7 >> >That should put things in perspective, wouldn't it.  >>  G >> Nope.  Because a customer had to buy five VAX/VMS systems to replace C >> the computing resources of a -20.  It was _how much work_ a user @ >> could get done.  VMS was not a clean new OS.  It's philosophyC >> was deeply rooted in the RSX thinking.  Timesharing was anathema  >> to the philosophy.  > F >Where does one draw the line between 'timesharing' and 'multi-user'?   ? Apparently this is a grey area.  Like religion, nobody seems toA= agree.  I've never been able to write a clear answer.  I justh know one when I meet one :-).u  ? My idea of timesharing is that I'm able to "feel" the system is.< all mine, even though a SYSTAT says that there are lots more= logged in feeling the same way.  I never got that "feel" with < any RSX system..even if I had it stand-alone.  IAS came the 8 closest to that "feel".  I had that one stand-alone too.  C >The -M in RSX11-M, after all. On the other hand, I always used to t& >think of the VAX as RSX in hardware.   > Of course.  When trade-offs had to be decided which way do you think it would go?  # > ..ie. lots of the stuff that was  C >done in s/w in RSX now done in h/w on VAX. Context switch support   >comes to mind.  >t >I never used a 10 or 20.r  < How sad ;-).  A TOPS-10 SMP system just screamed, especially with a third CPU.e   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:46:56 -0500 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>a  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX' Message-ID: <3CAF42A0.54782CCE@gce.com>E  L John's cellphone has its uses though. One meeting I was in with him, we wereS in a restaurant where the waiters were very anxious to bring wine or other alcohol, M but no water or food. After half an hour or so of waiting, John called up theiG restaurant's main number and complained to management. Waiters appearedu4 almost immediately with water and, soon after, food.     Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 0 > Dawn got her Doctorate last year (psychology). > > > And yes, John deserves *every* crack about his phone fetish. > < > "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote in message+ > news:uas724lblps80f@corp.supernews.com...a > > N > > <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:a8k45j$7dl$6@bob.news.rcn.net...H > > > Those are two very good people to ask about JMF and TW.  It's good( > > > to hear that they're still around. > >-M > >     Just don't get Dawn started on the stupidity of some induviduals. Your > > may needJ > >     a doctor to help you put your ribs together from laughing so hard. > >@I > >     One of her best crackups was was around 1991 when she called Johnt > CovertM > >     (FYI:I'm not implying John is either stupid or an inDUHvidual. It wasi > > just a pureaN > >     Dawn moment) on her cellphone to ask him to pass the salt. John was at > > the 2 > >     other end of the VMS table in the ZK cafe. > >a > >     Ring, Ring....; > >     Covert: Hi There. (if you know John, this is funny)d4 > >     Dawn: John.. Would you please pass the salt? > >o@ > >     The look on John's face was great.. "Ya had to be there" > >  > >     Ah, memories.... > >  > > mike > >i > >d > >u   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Apr 2002 17:44:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: KZPBA -> HSZ70 : "transport timeout" erroro- Message-ID: <87vgb5p3f2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  / Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:   F > I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding exactly what is causing= > the problems described below.  I'd very much appreciate anyn > assistance on this.u   ...   B > Quite often, at times of heavy I/O activity, the 2 nodes hostingC > certain shadow sets, will log hundreds of errors against the PKI0vF > controller (see below). It's always PKI (never PKA to PKH, or PKJ to@ > PKL, there are 12 controllers on each), and both nodes log theC > errors on their respective PKI device).  If it were a single SCSI ? > controller playing up, I'm sure I wouldn't see the same thing  > happening on all *4* nodes.   @ 9th controller, It is not in with the DEFPAs by any chance? What is the Hose/Bus layout?   E > What I'm trying to comprehend is the exact meaning (and ultimately,?F > of course, the cause and resolution) of the error message.  Here areC > two samples (nodes George and Ringo are site A, John and Paul ares
 > site B):  ( And the one at the 3rd site is Tomas? ;)  8 > Error Type               x060B  0x0B, Controller Error9 >                                 0x06, Transport Timeoutu  > SCSI ID                    x01  4 Is that an error on the SCSI bus, or on the PCI bus?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:04:04 +0200 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3l* Message-ID: <3CAEC814.3722DCED@bluewin.ch>   Mark D. Jilson wrote:e >  > Notes also used it.s >  And oh dear:   $ notes : %SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image $b  F So far, that's Notes and DECwrite which no longer work after upgrading to V7.3c     __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:54:13 +0200t( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>' Subject: Re: OT Re: British Summer Time * Message-ID: <3CAEC5C5.3B4B5F04@bluewin.ch>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Chris Sharman wrote: > >'@ > > "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message- > > news:uaqnfvt9022s73@news.supernews.com... 6 > > > British Summertime - Isn't that an Oxymoron ???? > >a@ > > Over 80F here in the office, though not as hot as yesterday. > > Sunny outside, too.0' > > It might even last to the weekend !. > ; > Yes Chris, make the most of it, this _is_ our summer. :-)M >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot coml   LOL  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 22:45:23 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>a2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itO Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204052238510.1148-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>   $ On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Bill Todd wrote:K > Of course you do.  You likely thought Alpha had a future as well.  And ofsN > course many like you were sure that the VMS 'renaissance' was only the start > of an accelerating upswing.> >dN > As prophets in this area, you rank well below a coin-flip in accuracy (whileE > other less-biased observers have done far better).  But given VMS'saI > sheltered/imprisoned status within Compaq, perhaps you have the kind of.I > co-dependency on Compaq that kidnap victims are reputed to develop withr > their captors.  = Geese Louise, does this ever sound like 20 years ago in LCG!!l  D So it seems that the VMS world forgot the past, and is now doomed to
 repeat it.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 07:22:42 GMTj- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)92 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-1S57rkRY52Yw@localhost>5  5 On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 02:10:33 UTC, "David J. Dachtera"   <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Dave Weatherall wrote: > > J > > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:17:09 UTC, Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>
 > > wrote: > >  > > > N > > > What stands out to me was the fact the fact that DEC's PC did not come aJ > > > floppy disk format program. You had to Buy DEC's pre-formated disks.2 > > > The weird floppy too I bet cost lots of $$$. > > I > > Really? my Rainbow did - for both CP/M and, eventually, domessdos. Dob > > you mean the VaxMate?n > G > Hhmmm... I seem to recall having that same problem with a MicroVAX-II  > that supported floppies. >   E Now that I can relate to. I remember using my Rainbow to format/init  D some RX50 compatibles for use at work. ISTR that I needed to test a F call from DCL to EXCHANGE to an RT-11 volume. The floppy was the only  thing I could use.  d -- e Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 07:22:43 GMTb- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-ZGw3b0HZyLlJ@localhost>r  @ On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:41:41 UTC, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob  Koehler) wrote:n  g > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-SzmxzI9qWHkx@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:nJ > > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:17:09 UTC, Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>
 > > wrote: > >  > >> tM > >> What stands out to me was the fact the fact that DEC's PC did not come a I > >> floppy disk format program. You had to Buy DEC's pre-formated disks.-1 > >> The weird floppy too I bet cost lots of $$$.( > > J > > Really? my Rainbow did - for both CP/M and, eventually, domessdos. Do  > > you mean the VaxMate?g > H >    The problem was on the Pro series.  No utility to format the disks.J >    Some Pro series FAQs have quite a discussion about what you might use) >    to format them under Windows, maybe.m  B I see what what you mean now. I remember my surprise when I fisrt C learned this. I fancied a PRO 'cos I thought i might be able to do  > some RSX style development on them. Never came to pass though.  C There was a program, RX50INIT by Robert Morse, that allowed  an 80 rF track single sided (i.e. RX50 compatible) floppy to be initialised forF DoMs-DOS. Never saw a IBM-PC-DOS-program to format one, though. I just( kept/keep a Rainbow100A for that job :-)  o Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Apr 2002 19:45:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it- Message-ID: <87r8ltoxtu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   E > The problem was on the Pro series.  No utility to format the disks.iC > Some Pro series FAQs have quite a discussion about what you might * > use to format them under Windows, maybe.  F And the controller could not format the disks anyway. At least the ProD floppy controller was not as thick and stupid as the MFM controller!   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:12:10 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>S2 Subject: RE: Predictions - just for the hell of itT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E39@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  C >>> OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college.F fellow claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS. Is this true???>>e   Nope.=20  G Let me guess, this fellow likely can not believe the whole world is notdH doing MS (or UNIX) since that is all he/she has been exposed to in their8 very limited exposure to the world of computing ..right?  B And of course, this person has never heard of Java either - right?   :-)o  > Here is a few misc pointers to drop back in that persons lap -F http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html (Fault tolerant)4 http://www.onexchange.com/press112601.asp (Java/BEA)1 http://www.usdesign.com/press/ASACAUSD.htm (Java)y7 http://www.dataglider.com/solutions/openvms.html (Java)+C http://www.lutris.com/company/pressReleases/Press020204.html (Java)a9 http://www.cio.com/archive/020102/dep.html (CIO Magazine) : http://www.imsurenetwork.com/Solutions_B2BFlex.html (Java)@ http://www.irconnect.com/noc/pages/news_releases.mhtml?d=3D21764
 (security)D http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001080602.html (related to
 previous url) H http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2819065,00.h tml (ZDNet editorial)aG http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/dfocanada/ (Government) B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/hydroquebec (Power Company)E http://www.compaq.com/storage/casestudies/dutchlottery.html (Lottery)S  G And to further improve their education that the world is not flat, hereE1 are some additional testimonials and whitepapers:r0 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/< http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/index.html   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantI Compaq Canada Corp.e Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660w Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: GreyCloud [mailto:mist@cumulus.com]=20 Sent: April 5, 2002 11:45 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComO2 Subject: RE: Predictions - just for the hell of it     Main, Kerry wrote:   > JF - >=20A >>>> Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?<<<= >=20 > Java on the server ... >=20J > Hey, heres another NEW financial market win for OpenVMS .. Good thing=200 > they don't read the doom-n-gloom stuff here... >=20I > http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html - February 21,=20 D > 2002 "Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, New Contracts at=20 > Minneapolis Grain Exchange"a >=20 > :-)o >=20
 > Regards, >=20 > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantk > Compaq Canada Corp.s > Professional Servicesh > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] > Sent: April 5, 2002 10:52 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com94 > Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it >=20 >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:H >> "As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,  E >> onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing=20l	 >> system  >=20D >> and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's=20
 >> OpenVMS >=20 >> AlphaServer systems." >=20; > Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?. >=20  I OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow=20 H claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this   true???d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:13:59 +0100a' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it2 Message-ID: <060420021413594023%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  9 In article <uasuqco4ot4378@corp.supernews.com>, GreyCloud  <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:a  I > OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow 2K > claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this e	 > true???a  G A college fellow eh? So all he needs is a single counter example right?0   Well *we* are.  = Customer relationship management system for users of the next>= generation of mobile devices, vehicle tracking and navigation 2 assistance with hybrid on-board off-board design.   B Any piece of trendy throwaway junk at the client end. VMS servers.  F Why VMS? By far the lowest TCO. Utter bomb-proof reliability. Fabulous@ low cost, low-key developer program (CSA). Efficient no-nonsense development tools. RMS. @ The risk of having to butcher your code in the shifting sands ofG Windows and snake-oil middleware is far greater than for unadorned VMS s  F Which all the whiners here already know full well is true. Who gives aE flying f*** what pea-brained 'analysts' say? We use the best tool forp the job. We know what it is.E And if it *does* go pear-shaped, who cares? It is easy to port to andlG from VMS to/from whatever. We might as well use the good stuff while ith lasts.G Why should VMS users be panic-ed into jumping ship? It is simply silly.9  G We are only little; we not getting rich all that fast. But hell, we aret having fun.lC In between we do a bit of contracting to fund the development work.>  @ Laying into Fred K is massively counter-productive. He's the oneD writing our alpha insurance. He and his cohorts need to know that usG VMS application developers are behind them 100%; that we appreciate the G genius and love that has been sunk into VMS this last 20 years; that ituC more than just commerce that makes it fun to come to work each day.y   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 11:27:04 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it+ Message-ID: <a8mucv$ila$5@bob.news.rcn.net>g   In article  D <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204052238510.1148-100000@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>,/    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:)% >On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Bill Todd wrote:mJ >> Of course you do.  You likely thought Alpha had a future as well.  And  ofJ >> course many like you were sure that the VMS 'renaissance' was only the  startS >> of an accelerating upswing. >>I >> As prophets in this area, you rank well below a coin-flip in accuracy . (whileF >> other less-biased observers have done far better).  But given VMS'sJ >> sheltered/imprisoned status within Compaq, perhaps you have the kind ofJ >> co-dependency on Compaq that kidnap victims are reputed to develop with >> their captors.w > > >Geese Louise, does this ever sound like 20 years ago in LCG!! >dE >So it seems that the VMS world forgot the past, and is now doomed tom >repeat it.d >s  = It's a part of DEC folklore.  Compaq kept the management thatu shoots balls instead of feet.-   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 22:55:12 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <EQEr8.1976$fL6.40893@news.cpqcorp.net>t  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CAE5BDB.D8A085A2@videotron.ca... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:/ > > Eh?  What "freeze"?  Some random net rumor?o >nL > I suggest you speak to Mr Marcello about a certain decision they seriouslyF > considered 2 years ago, june timeframe if I remember correctly. They decidedyG > otherwise and gave VMS its small renaissance marketing budget to turn  things around. >e  F No.  I believe you have misinterpereted things.  The company certainlyK evaluated all options, including putting OpenVMS into maintenance mode.  ItlD was never a "plan".  In the end, what was proposed was to "focus" onK vertical segments where we had strength, as a way to return VMS to growth - K as opposed to trying to be all things to all people.  And it worked, and is  still working.  I > > Wow.  What basis of facts do you have?  We're talking about the plans@ for G > > V8.0 and what "should" be in a major release.  We're working on COE  > > certification. >m	 > etc etcn >oL > In all fairness, the Alpha engineers also had plenty of plans for the chip andnK > there was a team working on the next generation EV8 already. But that was  > killed unceremoniously.e  I In fairness, we always have plans for new systems and new chips.  EV8 was J far enough on the horizon that not a lot of O/S work had been done for it.L But it's major impacts (like 64kb pages) certainly had some amount of study.A Just as we now are planning for the next 3-4 generations of IA64.u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 22:57:24 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>:2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <ISEr8.1977$fL6.40914@news.cpqcorp.net>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageb= news:Ieur8.134395$VJ1.11389758@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...r >e > >sH > > And you think that somehow whining and causing FUD in this newsgroup will > do5 > > it?  Who do you want to manage the company?  You?s >gH > As others have stated, a trained monkey would be an improvement, and I5 > suspect I could do at least a bit better than that.K >o  # I'll take the trained monkey first.r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:44:15 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it/ Message-ID: <uaucg56mubhc70@corp.supernews.com>o   Elliott Roper wrote:  ; > In article <uasuqco4ot4378@corp.supernews.com>, GreyCloud  > <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:n > I >> OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow)K >> claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is thisi
 >> true??? > I > A college fellow eh? So all he needs is a single counter example right?  >  > Well *we* are. > ? > Customer relationship management system for users of the nextr? > generation of mobile devices, vehicle tracking and navigatione3 > assistance with hybrid on-board off-board design.l > D > Any piece of trendy throwaway junk at the client end. VMS servers. > H > Why VMS? By far the lowest TCO. Utter bomb-proof reliability. FabulousB > low cost, low-key developer program (CSA). Efficient no-nonsense > development tools. RMS.cB > The risk of having to butcher your code in the shifting sands ofH > Windows and snake-oil middleware is far greater than for unadorned VMS > H > Which all the whiners here already know full well is true. Who gives aG > flying f*** what pea-brained 'analysts' say? We use the best tool fore > the job. We know what it is.G > And if it *does* go pear-shaped, who cares? It is easy to port to andoI > from VMS to/from whatever. We might as well use the good stuff while it. > lasts.I > Why should VMS users be panic-ed into jumping ship? It is simply silly.0 > I > We are only little; we not getting rich all that fast. But hell, we areR
 > having fun.sE > In between we do a bit of contracting to fund the development work.  > B > Laying into Fred K is massively counter-productive. He's the oneF > writing our alpha insurance. He and his cohorts need to know that usI > VMS application developers are behind them 100%; that we appreciate the I > genius and love that has been sunk into VMS this last 20 years; that ituE > more than just commerce that makes it fun to come to work each day., >   L I agree with you.  I've still got my 4000.  I use this linux box at home to K post to newsgroups that has to do with linux.  I can't stand windows after lI being on a vax.  The fellow in question is learning linux at college and 8H one can suppose he got the implication that on one develops for VMS any  more.  A stubborn one at that.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 17:39:56 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it@ Message-ID: <MpGr8.14852$r7.1336102@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:ISEr8.1977$fL6.40914@news.cpqcorp.net...l >e7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageb? > news:Ieur8.134395$VJ1.11389758@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...r > >d > > > J > > > And you think that somehow whining and causing FUD in this newsgroup > will > > do7 > > > it?  Who do you want to manage the company?  You?o > > J > > As others have stated, a trained monkey would be an improvement, and I7 > > suspect I could do at least a bit better than that.  > >M > % > I'll take the trained monkey first.   L Have you forgotten your own words so quickly?  You don't have any say in the	 matter...-   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:50:32 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it/ Message-ID: <uaucs1m0auiof5@corp.supernews.com>0   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > GreyCloud wrote: >> f >> Main, Kerry wrote:e >> h	 >> > JF -: >> >D >> >>>> Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ?<<< >> > >> > Java on the server ...  >> >J >> > Hey, heres another NEW financial market win for OpenVMS .. Good thing3 >> > they don't read the doom-n-gloom stuff here...e >> >I >> > http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html - February 21,e	 >> > 2002iK >> > "Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, New Contracts at Minneapolisx >> > Grain Exchange" >> > >> > :-) >> >
 >> > Regards,o >> > >> > Kerry Main  >> > Senior Consultant >> > Compaq Canada Corp. >> > Professional Services >> > Voice: 613-592-4660 >> > Fax  :  819-772-7036o! >> > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.como >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message-----19 >> > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] ! >> > Sent: April 5, 2002 10:52 AM- >> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >> > Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of ite >> > >> > >> > "Main, Kerry" wrote:jK >> >> "As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,rL >> >> onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing system >> >L >> >> and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's OpenVMS >> > >> >> AlphaServer systems."  >> >> >> > Is that JAVA on the client and real stuff on the server ? >> > >> tI >> OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow'K >> claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is thisr
 >> true??? > I > Well, probably not far off base. Maybe no new databases or 3gl programsyI > or such, but maybe many of the more portable forms - java, perl, etc. -t> > can be used with few or no changes on VMS, UN*X, NT/W2K, ... >   A But a VMSer can still purchase these existing products for a vax?sI I'm presumming that these products have reached maturity and need not be  ? hyped up to make more profit like M$ does, but still available.   H I'm just verifying what I can to keep my pro-VMS argument proper in the  other newsgroup.  E > Seems to me, FWIW, the only new development being done in any great I > measure is for Windows and/or Linux, and most of that is really nothingtH > "new", just new ways to use the same old APIs for multimedia and such. >   H I'm interested in the "old APIs" part.  But I figure that you are right L when you get down to the nitty gritty.  For some reason the marketers at M$ L have redefined the meaning of subroutine to mean API and give the API a new . name and making it their own "new innovation".  J So can I presume then that there is really nothing new under the sun (not * Sun) when considering APIs since 1990's ??  @ > Strictly my opinion, though, and probably not very accurate... >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:36:59 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>& Subject: Rdb Technical Forums for 2002* Message-ID: <3CAF323B.385CD340@oracle.com>  : Rdb Product Management and Engineering has been pleased to; offer a series of Rdb Technical Forums in various locationsl9 around the world for 2002. These Forums are offered at no 4 charge and present a series of sessions conducted by; acknowledged technical specialists from Rdb Engineering ande; the Rdb community at large. The Rdb Technical Forums should 8 be considered a requirement for anyone wishing to remain: completely up-to-date with all the latest enhancements and optimizations in Oracle Rdb.  1 Registration is now open for forums in Nashua, NH.6 Zurich, Reading, Copenhagen, Sydney and San Francisco.  2         Nashua, NH, USA                  4-5  June2         Zurich, Switzerland             17-18 June2         Reading, United Kingdom         20-21 June2         Copenhagen, Denmark             27-28 June4         Sydney, Australia               19-20 August6         San Francisco, CA, USA           9-10 November  1 Vist the Oracle Rdb site on the world-wide-web ats2 http://www.oracle.com/rdb for more information and to sign up for the forums.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:44:23 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>wY Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the CoaF Message-ID: <bRDr8.9926$cN1.8949@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Walter Hewlett Lays Out Theory On Deutsche Asset's Vote Switch/   By DONNA FUSCALDO0 DOW JONES NEWSWIRESa# Updated April 5, 2002 5:47 p.m. ESTm    G Dissident Hewlett-Packard Co. board member Walter Hewlett said DeutschesF Asset Management's last-minute decision to vote some of its 25 millionD shares in favor of the proposed acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.; "apparently swung the vote" from defeating the combination.e  L In court documents filed with the Delaware Chancery Court Friday, which willE hear Mr. Hewlett's arguments aimed at derailing the merger of H-P andrL Compaq, Hewlett alleges that the Deutsche Bank AG unit's vote was "based notE on the merits of the proposed merger but on extraneous considerationsaH (future business dealing with H-P) personal to Deutsche and unrelated to$ Deutsche's status as a stockholder."  H According to the documents, which were filed in response to H-P's motionK asking the judge to dismiss the suit, Mr. Hewlett said it's "more than fair L to infer" that Deutsche changed a portion of its vote at the last minute notD because of the merits of the deal suddenly changed, but "because H-PD exercised the only leverage it had over Deutsche -- the H-P business relationship."  I Last Thursday, Mr. Hewlett, son of one of the late co-founders, who led ahG protracted proxy battle to stop the merger of H-P and Compaq from going L through, launched a lawsuit alleging that H-P improperly secured shareholderI votes to approve its merger with Compaq. Mr. Hewlett contends H-P coerced L Deutsche Asset Management into switching a large block of shares in favor of" the deal, among other allegations.  G H-P filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit Monday. The Chancellor of theoG Delaware Chancery Court, Judge William B. Chandler III, has scheduled an2 hearing on the motion for Sunday at 9:30 a.m. EDT.  J H-P claimed early victory in its battle to win shareholder support for theK merger with Compaq. But Mr. Hewlett has said the vote is too close to call.rL An official tally of the votes by proxy counters IVS Associates is currently@ underway, and a certified result isn't expected for a few weeks.  : Officials at H-P weren't immediately available to comment.  L http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB101803983486900480,00.html?mod=home_whats _news_us   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 07:39:54 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: RE: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Cor9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEEPELAA.tom@kednos.com>g  E Curious what that leverage might be, AFAIK Deutsche bank is primarily J Siemens and IBM.  Even so,  I doubt that the by-laws preclude shareholders from voting their best interest5   > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]( > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 6:44 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.H > Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit$ > challenging the Compaq acquisition >i >n  > Walter Hewlett Lays Out Theory! > On Deutsche Asset's Vote Switcht >  > By DONNA FUSCALDO  > DOW JONES NEWSWIRESS% > Updated April 5, 2002 5:47 p.m. ESTe >w >?I > Dissident Hewlett-Packard Co. board member Walter Hewlett said DeutscheuH > Asset Management's last-minute decision to vote some of its 25 millionF > shares in favor of the proposed acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.= > "apparently swung the vote" from defeating the combination.  >kC > In court documents filed with the Delaware Chancery Court Friday,t > which willG > hear Mr. Hewlett's arguments aimed at derailing the merger of H-P andeC > Compaq, Hewlett alleges that the Deutsche Bank AG unit's vote wase > "based notG > on the merits of the proposed merger but on extraneous considerationshJ > (future business dealing with H-P) personal to Deutsche and unrelated to& > Deutsche's status as a stockholder." >bJ > According to the documents, which were filed in response to H-P's motionC > asking the judge to dismiss the suit, Mr. Hewlett said it's "more  > than fairSC > to infer" that Deutsche changed a portion of its vote at the lastt > minute notF > because of the merits of the deal suddenly changed, but "because H-PF > exercised the only leverage it had over Deutsche -- the H-P business > relationship." >wK > Last Thursday, Mr. Hewlett, son of one of the late co-founders, who led aKI > protracted proxy battle to stop the merger of H-P and Compaq from going.B > through, launched a lawsuit alleging that H-P improperly secured
 > shareholdermK > votes to approve its merger with Compaq. Mr. Hewlett contends H-P coercedhB > Deutsche Asset Management into switching a large block of shares
 > in favor ofr$ > the deal, among other allegations. >-I > H-P filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit Monday. The Chancellor of thecI > Delaware Chancery Court, Judge William B. Chandler III, has scheduled a.4 > hearing on the motion for Sunday at 9:30 a.m. EDT. >5L > H-P claimed early victory in its battle to win shareholder support for the> > merger with Compaq. But Mr. Hewlett has said the vote is too > close to call.A > An official tally of the votes by proxy counters IVS Associatesy > is currentlyB > underway, and a certified result isn't expected for a few weeks. >t< > Officials at H-P weren't immediately available to comment. >wD > http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB101803983486900480,00.html?mod=
 home_whats _news_us   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:49:26 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Cos, Message-ID: <3CAF2715.36C1E21A@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:MF > because of the merits of the deal suddenly changed, but "because H-PF > exercised the only leverage it had over Deutsche -- the H-P business > relationship."=   N It it illegal for a company to promise "gifts" to shareholders who support the company's goals ?A  N If Deutche Bank did indeed accept bribes from HP to change its vote, shouldn'tJ it be Deutche Bank that is the target of a lawsuit by those whose money is8 invested in the HP shares administered by Deutche Bank ?    N For what its worth, a lot of Deutche Bank's operations in the USA are "BankersK Trust" and Bankers Trust had a "colourful" history with the authorities andsN shareholders. Bankers Trust also used to be a  big VMS site but somehow turnedJ against VMS and became a very good Compaq customer in the mid 1990s. So ifL they accepted bribes to change their votes, I would not at all be surprised.6 They will screw anyone if it is to their own interest.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:32:03 +0200S( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!w* Message-ID: <3CAEC093.33127796@bluewin.ch>   Island (hpaq.net) wrote: > K > We will soon be having to ask the major US Corporations for permission to  > write anything  > that may be in the Dictionary. > K > I saw a trademark sign after some common phrase the other day on t' tellyw > 0 > I think it was "it's a beautiful morning" (tm) > # > Anyone sensing the rediculous ???  > / "Quite so"(tm - me before anyone else grabs it)l  D And it appears that it has spread to the UK. From www.caterham.co.uk (bottom RHS)  ? "SEVEN and 7 are registered trade marks of Caterham Car Sales &, Coachworks Limited".  C A graphic for each would be fine, but no, it's there in plain text.t   Not much more to be said...  __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:49:37 +0200w9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>-% Subject: Re: Selling: DS10L's NEW !!!,' Message-ID: <3CAEEEE1.9196E0E7@aaa.com>l  ; Actualy, where I live (the city Norrkping in Sweden) thereo= is a company named "VMS". It's short for "Vg Maskin Service"@' or in english "Road Machinery Service".d   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i   David Mathog wrote:1 > H > VMS is in there too, usually NOT having anything to do with computers. > For instance:i >  >  Word Mark   VMS >  Goods and Services Q >   IC 037. US 100 103 106. G & S: Restorative maintenance services for all typesa > of roadways,J >                           bridges, roadside lighting and other facilitie > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 09:28:41 -080051 From: john@mccalpin.com (John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.):Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Cluo= Message-ID: <963a1d45.0204060928.5adc9024@posting.google.com>u  m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0204051121.6c3c40a7@posting.google.com>...M > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CADC4EE.7070407@sun.com>... > > Terry C. Shannon wrote:g > > M > > > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote ine. > > > message news:3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com... > > >  d) > > Sun F15K 76 CPU's 4100 users SAP 4.6C  > > - > > Compaq GS320 32 CPU's 2720 users SAP 4.0b  > > 6 > > Ohh looks like Alphas not doing too badly but then > >  > > Regards  > > Andrew Harrisont > ; > and just wait until EV7 hits ... have you looked at those ; > numbers yet?  your 80 million chip boxes were starting to  > catch up when POW!  EV7! > H > 	Marvel's performance potential isn't any great secret anymore... not > > 	that it is out on the Web for one and all alike to gaze at: > 7 > www.eecs.umich.edu/vlsi_seminar/f01/slides/bannon.pdfa > - > 	Check out slide 29, slide 30 and slide 31.  > A > 	At average latency of 157 ns and worst case latency of 175 ns,eD > 	for a "13" processor EV7 has better latency than most 4 processorB > 	boxes.  Bandwidth shows up in a frightening way.  Stream scales$ > 	linerally.  That is unheard of!    = It is certainly not "unheard of" --- it is exactly how *all* t> directory-based NUMA systems scale.  Such boxes go back to the< mid 1990's and include (just picking a few published entries= from the STREAM database) the Convex SPP-1600 (1996), the SGIe< Origin2000 (1996), the Compaq GS series (2000/2001), the SGIA Origin3000 (2000), the HP SuperDome (2001), and the SGI Origin300a> (2002).  Even some snooping machines, such as the Sun E10000, = scale almost linearly (compare 32p with 64p results from the e "standard" tables).h      ? > 	Again, not to be overlooked... linear scaling in bandwdith, v > 	unprecedented!  And yes....  = No it is certainly not unprecedented --- but the numbers are n impressively large....  O > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=C2AnvK.GB5%40news.udel.edu&output=gplaind > ( > 		"It's the memory bandwidth, stupid!" > 			-- John D. McCalpin  7 Interesting that you would choose a quote from 1993....-  A Although  I am still keenly interested in bandwidth, the world of C high performance computing has changed in the last nine years, and lB history has shown that having too much bandwidth can be almost as D detrimental for the economic success of a computer system as having  too little bandwidth....   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:30:55 +0200i- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>n( Subject: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <3CAEA430.D1B60649@Free.fr>g  A I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrate B utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aG binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering Group H when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on Alpha systems.  H After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of noone in Europe.  @ I personally think that the users did find their sources and did' compile/link them on their new systems..   Thanks.c   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 05:50:14 -0600o- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?3 Message-ID: <7v2U4kqob$Uv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3CAEA430.D1B60649@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:>C > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrategD > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering Group0J > when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > Alpha systems. > J > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > noone in Europe.  = I use TECO every day, and on Alpha that is created with VEST.-  B > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did) > compile/link them on their new systems.-  ; DEC had the sources, but the Macro-32 was too squirrelly to  just compile on Alpha.  	 =========   @ I have also used VEST on occasion myself, but I am not currently> running any VESTed programs of my own.  I would use it quickly@ if I had any SCAN programs I needed to run on Alpha, but instead I just run those on VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:53:41 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>,, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <3CAEE1C6.762720BE@Free.fr>e  A What you're saying is that VEST is useful for third party vendorsnE utilities that do not exist or that you didn't purchase for the Alphaa family, right?   Thanks for this input, Larry.M   Others?r   D.   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ? > I use TECO every day, and on Alpha that is created with VEST.c > D > > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did+ > > compile/link them on their new systems.N > = > DEC had the sources, but the Macro-32 was too squirrelly tod > just compile on Alpha. >  > =========  > B > I have also used VEST on occasion myself, but I am not currently@ > running any VESTed programs of my own.  I would use it quicklyB > if I had any SCAN programs I needed to run on Alpha, but instead > I just run those on VAX.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 13:51:48 GMTW) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)a, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <a8muhk$1um$2@joe.rice.edu>   . Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) wrote:C : I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrate D : utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI : binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering Group"J : when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on : Alpha systems. :uD IIRC, OpenVMS  Alpha used it for the MONITOR utility. I became awareB of this when a client had performed a VMS upgrade and said "No" to- the question about support for VESTed images.0  E We also used it on the last BLISS version of Kermit until we upgradedn Kermit.m    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:35:11 +0800- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> , Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?( Message-ID: <02040622351100.01016@bwian>  0 On Sat,  6 Apr 2002 15:30, Didier Morandi wrote:C > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigratedD > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering Group J > when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > Alpha systems. >nJ > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > noone in Europe. > B > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did) > compile/link them on their new systems.e >g	 > Thanks.  >  > D.  D Most of the Alpha images I provide with my freeware stuff (availableE from the address below :-) are VESTed images.  I have the source codedC but never seem to find the time to go through and cleanup the Macroi1 to be usable directly with the Macro-32 compiler.-   Regards, Dave.- --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comwI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/aI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmeI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennoni   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 09:45:25 -0500* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?- Message-ID: <3CAEC3B5.1811.21B9D04@localhost>t  0 > Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) wrote:E > : I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrate F > : utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aK > : binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering GroupaL > : when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > : Alpha systems.  E It's essential when porting to Alpha those things for which you have n no source code.t  D Also, programs written in SCAN must be VEST'd, since no support for B SCAN was ever provided for Alpha.  I have several SCAN programs...    
 --Stan Quaylee! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.j  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671h1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147n= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:56:15 -0500e2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?* Message-ID: <3CAF1A9E.5FB08227@oracle.com>  : Over the years, I've used it a number of times for various9 things.  In fact, in the last couple months, we've VESTedo= the VAX BLISS32 compiler so that it would run on Alpha.  Why?e7 Because the Alphas (GS140 @700mhz) that we have in our h> development cluster are much faster than the VAXen (7000-700).= So it turns out that compiling the VAX code on the Alpha witho8 a VESTed BLISS32 compiler made sense.  Then there is the9 SCAN code and lots and lots of utility programs where thea sources are long since lost.   Didier Morandi wrote:w > C > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrateaD > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering GrouptJ > when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > Alpha systems. > J > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > noone in Europe. > B > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did) > compile/link them on their new systems.: > 	 > Thanks.e >  > D.   -- u> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:35:34 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?, Message-ID: <3CAF23D5.8366811A@videotron.ca>  L > > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > > noone in Europe.  N Is it possible that shops which had a couple of programs that couldn't port to/ Alpha just decided to keep them on an old VAX ?    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:12:38 +0000 (UTC)5 From: dontspamlewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)D, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?. Message-ID: <a8naa5$52u$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  | Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes in article <3CAEA430.D1B60649@Free.fr> dated Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:30:55 +0200:B >I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrateC >utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is a H >binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering GroupI >when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run onr >Alpha systems.o  J I used it on MLSEARCH.  From what I remember, the image it produced workedG back then, although the performance was lousy.  Now (after numberous OSh$ upgrades) that executable is broken.  = %OTS-F-INTDATCOR, internal data corrupted in Run-Time Librarys  A >I personally think that the users did find their sources and dide( >compile/link them on their new systems.  2 Anything worth compiling has been by now, I think.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org  PGP key available.         s> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:29:59 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <3CAF3098.27E2C36E@Free.fr>p   Dunno.   D.   JF Mezei wrote:- > P > Is it possible that shops which had a couple of programs that couldn't port to1 > Alpha just decided to keep them on an old VAX ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:35:09 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>f, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <3CAF31CE.50D35EBF@Free.fr>    "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:l > L > I used it on MLSEARCH.  From what I remember, the image it produced workedI > back then, although the performance was lousy.  Now (after numberous OSe& > upgrades) that executable is broken. > ? > %OTS-F-INTDATCOR, internal data corrupted in Run-Time Librarya   (and everyone together with me).   oneo twoa three    READ THE FAQ !!! :-)n  3 UTIL4.  Why is DECmigrate not working with Fortran?   : OTS-F-INDATCOR internal data corrupted in Run-time Library  @ This error can arise with Fortran programs if you are running a < recent version of OpenVMS Alpha, and are using DECmigrate toA translate Fortran applications.  The DECmigrate Run-Time Library 0A attempts to support mixed translated-native I/O to the same unit oA by sharing the native Fortran RTL's internal data structures, ands> in OpenVMS 7.2 these structures changed and the translated RTL was not updated accordingly.  A You can copy DEC$FORRTL.EXE from OpenVMS 7.1, copying it to some uB spare directory, and then defining the logical name DEC$FORRTL to G point to it before running your translated application.  Or rebuilding "A the application to use the available native Fortran compiler.  OruD you can apply the current Fortran RTL kit, which has a fix for this.   See SOFT13.h2                                     [Steve Lionel]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:11:06 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...d3 Message-ID: <y3Fr8.1979$fL6.40819@news.cpqcorp.net>r  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CAE5F2D.B9C115FF@fsi.net...a > > J > > What was the part of the metaphor that dealt with being a tramp (and aJ > > morally bankrupt one at that)?  I'm almost up to speed now.  Bear with me, It3 > > couldn't follow the plot of Eraser Head either.  >aF > *IF* the HP stockholders approve the merger, and *IF* she decides toF > give VMS the axe, then as - who the hell was it? I gotta go back andH > look. Hold on a sec. ... Oh yeah - JF Mezei said, she would be _actingI > like_ a "tramp (and a morally bankrupt one at that)", at which point it & > changes from a metaphor to a simile. > 5 > I still have a problem with this equation, however:  >t > "acting like" = "is" >wF > For some reason (in my experience, at least), 80% or more of a givenG > audience will interpret "acting like" as "is" instead of accepting itaH > unedited. That is, they make it a direct assignment of quality instead= > of leaving it a comparison of apparently similar qualities., >oH > Possessing a measured IQ of only 80, I'm unable to understand why that: > happens, why people do that. Could someone enlighten me? >e  G Come on.  What you are really doing is defending the indefensible.  The1I entire comment was an offensive slur - regardless of how you try to parse I it.  I'm as guilty at times as anyone in going just a little too far, butcE usually I will admit that I was wrong and speaking in the heat of thes moment.y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:05:40 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)i3 Message-ID: <s_Er8.1978$fL6.40803@news.cpqcorp.net>r  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:Rw6jMCBN4Tx6@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > In article <a8kuvj$3c6$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu  (Bill Gunshannon) writes:e > K > > Does this NOWRT/NOEXE stuff have anything to do with the difficulty VMS-5 > > seems to have implimenting the UNIX fork() call??o >mA > That has more to do with process structure and reference countswD > internal to the operating system.  This relates to a clean rundown > etc.  D Cloning the address space is the "easy" part, even if it may be moreJ overhead than a typical UNIX, a harder part is how to mimic the global I/OL model of UNIX.  On VMS, the structures are mostly all process based, and notE in a shared system space.  So the parent has an open file, and an I/O D channel associated with it.  Even once you go through the process ofJ "cloning" it, it doesn't become shared between the parent and the child inK the same way UNIX would.  So.  Do we create a UNIX-like I/O mechanism for C D programs?  Do we try to solve the problem for programs that also use@ non-UNIX shared libraries?  It's not an "easy" problem to solve.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.190 ************************