1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 07 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 191       Contents:# Alphaserver Vs Ultimate Workstation 7 Re: C++ Programming problem - was Re: Memory Corruption  Re: CMS library repair digital MicroVAX 3100-96 Box Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX 7 Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For Alpha  Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 Re: perf problem) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it  SCSI Raid options for DS10 Re: SCSI Raid options for DS10, Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms!% Re: VMS on 533au Ultimate Workstation # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # RE: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? # Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? ( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 04:01:46 +0000 (UTC)0 From: "Robert Santos" <icemanr@zoominternet.net>, Subject: Alphaserver Vs Ultimate WorkstationH Message-ID: <ac22d9c234f56e6a9187574097d05240.42059@mygate.mailgate.org>  D I Have in my posession alot of Ultimate workstations iv been sellingC off.But I dont understand how and why these machines are different. H The part numbers on every part in both machine are identical.Except whenH they boot up the firmware either is ultimate workstation or alphaserver.  A From what im told the ultimate workstation will not run Tru64 but  Alphaserver will.   @ Can the ultimate workstation firmware be changed to alphaserver?       --  8 Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 21:04:59 -0800  From: wingwong@witty.com (wing) @ Subject: Re: C++ Programming problem - was Re: Memory Corruption= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0204062104.7489d8e3@posting.google.com>   I > Now if the program behaves when you step through it with the debugger,  E > but run in a nodebug mode does not, then look for an uninitialized  < > variable.  Neither C++ or C initializes variables to zero.    M Is this also good to assign pointer to NULL in declaration? how to initialize  struct?   @ And, I have found a way to make the program behave the same with9 debug/nooptimze and nodebug/optimeze without knowing why.    The problem original problem is D in debug mode, a call to a third party C call (OMNET) returns number of items< in nodebug mode, a call to the OMNET C call returns 0 items.? And the parameters passed into the third party call is the same  showing by printf.  ; The way I do is to use open instead of file open in a class = which is initailized before calling the third Party C called.    In fstream version declare    fstream *ofFile_;  init*   const char* fileName = filename.c_str();A   ofFile_ = new fstream(fileName, ios::out | ios::in | ios::app); 
 destructor   if ( ofFile_ != NULL ) {     ofFile_->close();      ofFile_ == NULL;   }  writing 2   std::string writeStr( (char*)rawBuffer_.begin(), (int)rawBuffer_.size() );    *ofFile_ << writeStr.c_str();    In open version, declare    int handle_; initC   handle_=::open(filename.c_str(), O_CREAT | O_APPEND | O_WRONLY,    644, "shr=get, put"); 
 destructor   if (handle_!=-1) {     ::close(handle_);      handle_=-1;    }  writing :   ::write(handle_, rawBuffer_.begin(), rawBuffer_.size());  E I don't understand why and the problem may not be solved yet.  I will C still work on it.  Is there any tools to dump the memory space when ? the C++ programs are running? or is my way of using fstream not  correct.  F Beside, I have use the %u to log some unsigned short word  by log4cpp,1 but I don't think it is the cause of the problem?   ? I could mail the program to you for a look if you are interesd.    Wing   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:54:33 -0500* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: CMS library repair , Message-ID: <3CAF1A39.1384.5E2A1B@localhost>  M > Running different versions of software on a shared database is (in general)  > a bad practice.   C I hadn't really thought about it as a shared database.  But you're  
 100% correct.   N > Which CMS version are you using for VERIFY/REPAIR?  If it's 3.X then yes theK > upgrade might "fix" the library.  If it's 4.X then you probably corrupted M > the library with 3.X and upgrading won't fix it but it will prevent similar  > corruptions in the future.  ? I run the repair with V4.1, which is where I first noticed the  = problem.  If I do the repair twice, the problems go away and   everything appears normal.  B Are you saying that I should repair the libraries with 3.X first, A then upgrade to 4.1?  Or just jump ahead to 4.1 and hope for the  E best?  And what sort of symptoms would I expect with a corrupted CMS   library?    
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 02:47:41 GMT . From: "Popeye Jones" <popeyejones@hotmail.com>% Subject: digital MicroVAX 3100-96 Box ; Message-ID: <hrOr8.24150$2j3.1921995@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>   
 Hello all,  K I recently acquired a pallet of computer equipment from a company going out / of business.  One of the items I received is a:    digital MicroVAX 3100-96 Box w/ 128MB RAM no SCSI devices  no Power Supply Unit  E Anyone have a rough estimate of its value, before being submitted for  auction?  	 Thank you   K PS. I believe an internal SCSI Exabyte HH CTS DAT Drive was originally part B of this system, no other computers I received had SCSI capability.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 21:57:24 GMT ( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX2 Message-ID: <a8nr04$2qct$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  5 In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-lWybcVJEsL2J@localhost>, . Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote:F >Where does one draw the line between 'timesharing' and 'multi-user'? C >The -M in RSX11-M, after all. On the other hand, I always used to  E >think of the VAX as RSX in hardware. ie. lots of the stuff that was  C >done in s/w in RSX now done in h/w on VAX. Context switch support   >comes to mind.   C And yet an '11 could handle twice the users of an "equivalent" VAX.    --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:31:16 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX@ Message-ID: <orMr8.26397$%i.3011467@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in message , news:a8nr04$2qct$1@citadel.in.taronga.com...7 > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-lWybcVJEsL2J@localhost>, 0 > Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote:G > >Where does one draw the line between 'timesharing' and 'multi-user'? D > >The -M in RSX11-M, after all. On the other hand, I always used toF > >think of the VAX as RSX in hardware. ie. lots of the stuff that wasD > >done in s/w in RSX now done in h/w on VAX. Context switch support > >comes to mind.  > E > And yet an '11 could handle twice the users of an "equivalent" VAX.   K Much as I loved the 11 and felt that it provided a superior platform to VAX H for many tasks well into the '90s, I can't let such a sweeping statement pass unquestioned.  I First, it's a hardware-to-hardware comparison, which really requires that J other variables (principally, the software) be held constant.  Perhaps youL could compare RSX with VAXeln and get closer than what I assume you're doingA (comparing against VMS), but even then you're comparing a mature, ' finely-honed OS with a far younger one.   K And comparing any 11 system to VMS is comparing apples to oranges.  Virtual I memory allows the system to make use of all its resources to provide good D responsiveness under light load while avoiding the need to deal withJ something like TKB to make the system run efficiently under heavy, diverseK loads with complex applications - but in the process you pay the price that J neither is in all ways as efficient as a well-designed overlay environmentG where what gets loaded (and when) is under the control of the developer % rather than a generic paging manager.   G So how things compare depends on what you're doing.  Perhaps you really K could run twice as many users on the 11 in many cases, but I suspect not if L they were linking applications, since TKB had to work considerably harder atG this than the VMS linker does.  And even if you could run twice as many J applications on Alpha today if you scrapped virtual memory and returned to: something like TKB, I suspect few would take you up on it.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:59:28 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAXA Message-ID: <UfJr8.37237$To6.9831368@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>   ; "Charlie Root" <root@acer.reistad.priv.no> wrote in message / news:_rqr8.51$Vv5.2594@nreader1.kpnqwest.net... H > At my college the DEC2065 tended to get slow at round 150 users, whereD > around 100 would be active at any one time. It only got terminallyH > bad at two occations; both under severe stress from a lot of different > work.  > L I was one of the systems programmers for a well-known corporation which usedG a 2040 in their accounting office.  Far from hundreds of users, we were J lucky to sustain more than 8 COBOL developers simultaneously (plus myself,K though I usually stuck to assembly language).  On the other hand, overnight J batch would outrun the 370/138 sitting next to the 2040.  For that matter,L the 2040 wuld still outdo the 370 during the day as well.  Those programmersI willing to switch enjoyed the TOPS vs. VM environment, though all came to K nought as the company made a non-technical decision to be an IBM only shop. L A year later the 2040 was sold to someplace in California.  And I eventuallyJ wound up at another company on a 11/34, followed by an 11/780.  Out of allH those systems, the one I most liked to work on was...my own IMSAI with aJ Z-80 running CP/M (a well-known RT-11 near clone).  It supported a maximumH of one user (sometimes none when smoke came out the back), as far as i'm* concerned the ideal developer environment.  L I have to agree with Fred about 10/20 nostalgia.  They were good machines inE their day but time and selective memory have served to gloss over the I shortcomings.  I can't imagine why anyone would prefer a 10 or 20 over an L Alpha, or even a VAX (though anyone who ever used a MVax I could make a good case for a 2020).      Jack Peacock   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2002 02:17:54 GMT ( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX0 Message-ID: <a8oa8i$c6$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  @ In article <orMr8.26397$%i.3011467@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: F >> And yet an '11 could handle twice the users of an "equivalent" VAX.  L >Much as I loved the 11 and felt that it provided a superior platform to VAXI >for many tasks well into the '90s, I can't let such a sweeping statement  >pass unquestioned.   F The closest thing to a hardware-to-harware comparison I'd seen to thatH point. No VMS or young-versus-old operating systems. Almost all software
 identical:  F PDP-11/70 and VAX 11/780, both running comparable versions of BSD UNIXJ (2.7, IIRC, and 4.1C). The 11/70 had 2M RAM, the 780 had more than that (IJ don't know exactly how much). During the week before finals, quarter afterM quarter, with both systems doing edits and compiles, using the same compiler, I and both using a "smart" terminal driver that did command line processing K in the front end hardware (the Berkeley Bussiplexer) the 11/70 managed over / 70 users, the 11/780 croaked between 30 and 35.    --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 04:55:53 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX@ Message-ID: <tjQr8.34764$w7.3041810@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in message * news:a8oa8i$c6$1@citadel.in.taronga.com...B > In article <orMr8.26397$%i.3011467@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: H > >> And yet an '11 could handle twice the users of an "equivalent" VAX. > J > >Much as I loved the 11 and felt that it provided a superior platform to VAX K > >for many tasks well into the '90s, I can't let such a sweeping statement  > >pass unquestioned.  > H > The closest thing to a hardware-to-harware comparison I'd seen to thatJ > point. No VMS or young-versus-old operating systems. Almost all software > identical: > H > PDP-11/70 and VAX 11/780, both running comparable versions of BSD UNIXL > (2.7, IIRC, and 4.1C). The 11/70 had 2M RAM, the 780 had more than that (IL > don't know exactly how much). During the week before finals, quarter afterE > quarter, with both systems doing edits and compiles, using the same 	 compiler, K > and both using a "smart" terminal driver that did command line processing H > in the front end hardware (the Berkeley Bussiplexer) the 11/70 managed over1 > 70 users, the 11/780 croaked between 30 and 35.   K Wow.  That kind of surprises me, but it does sound like a fair comparison - I assuming the VAX software was using the same memory management techniques L (e.g., overlays) rather than virtual memory.  Certainly a hell of a lot moreJ impact than the difference between 16 and 32 bit pointer-size overhead can account for.   - bill   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 04:04:15 +0000 (UTC)0 From: "Robert Santos" <icemanr@zoominternet.net>@ Subject: Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For AlphaH Message-ID: <2bce2694b6b9cdd51979cacf2afcc75a.42059@mygate.mailgate.org>  E I was told Microsoft was going to release a alpha ver of windows 2000 F but decided not too but they had a version of win 2000 Beta 3 floating@ around whenb they were.Does any one know where i can get a copy.     --  8 Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:54:06 -0600, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 3 Message-ID: <a8oc2e$abv$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>   I DECwrite has a new version; we got it on the most recent SPL distribution = (March?) specifically for VMS V7.3.  Sorry, no idea on Notes.   = Paul Sture wrote in message <3CAEC814.3722DCED@bluewin.ch>...  >Mark D. Jilson wrote: >> >> Notes also used it. >>
 >And oh dear:  >  >$ notes; >%SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image  >$ > G >So far, that's Notes and DECwrite which no longer work after upgrading  >to V7.3 >  >  >__  >Paul Sture  >Switzerland   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:58:39 +0000 (UTC)% From: "pos" <prosullivan@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: perf problem / Message-ID: <a8nuiv$ri2$1@paris.btinternet.com>   L I think the guys at PerfCap (who write and support the VMS collector used in1 PAWZ) would have an issue with that statement. :)   /  Might be valuid for 'other collectors' though.   5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3C4BE683.1BAE600D@127.0.0.1...  > >  Event theI > performance tools you pay for take what monitor does, and interprets it 
 > for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:53:43 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it, Message-ID: <3CAFB4B7.9020204@tsoft-inc.com>   GreyCloud wrote:    I > OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow  K > claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this  	 > true???t >  > M Well, this isn't another SAP, but last evening one of my customers, who is anCN ISV, and has run an MS-DOS based EDI communication and translation product forH the last 10 years asked me about developing a VMS based product for him.    Q Seems that the product vendor was bought by another company, and that company by  Q yet another.  Now they don't want to support the product, and various people are hC dropping support for X-25, so the product will soon become useless.n  N My customer basically dominates his vertical market segment, with a VMS based N product.  He really hates it when a vendor abandons him.  His logic is to own D the replacement product, thus not being subject to such 'surprises'.  Q Yes, there is VMS development.  Can't say how much.  There's also a large number eO of people who feel that 'everyone' is moving to windoz, and they have to also.  K I see both sides.  Another past customer is looking for windoz software to -P replace a working VMS application, mainly because they feel the world is moving 
 to windoz.  D Just hope my customer doesn't have to buy VMS to insure it's future  availability.  :-)   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:56:38 -0500o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it, Message-ID: <3CAFB566.7010100@tsoft-inc.com>   GreyCloud wrote:    I > OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellow rK > claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this l	 > true???i   I gotta add one more question.    L Does this 'college fellow' know what every single person and company in the  world is doing?l  P Seems to reinforce something I've heard.  Those that can, do.  Those that can't  teach.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:19:13 -0500i( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it( Message-ID: <3CAFBAB1.305@tsoft-inc.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea? > news:Ieur8.134395$VJ1.11389758@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...t > G >>>And you think that somehow whining and causing FUD in this newsgroupt >>>  > will >  >>do >>4 >>>it?  Who do you want to manage the company?  You? >>>iH >>As others have stated, a trained monkey would be an improvement, and I5 >>suspect I could do at least a bit better than that.  >> >> > % > I'll take the trained monkey first.a  > You promise to be a bit less nasty, and see how long it lasts.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 03:53:36 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it' Message-ID: <3CAFC539.DDC1C9EA@fsi.net>r   David Froble wrote:  >  > GreyCloud wrote: > J > > OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellowL > > claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this > > true???  > >L > > O > Well, this isn't another SAP, but last evening one of my customers, who is an.P > ISV, and has run an MS-DOS based EDI communication and translation product forJ > the last 10 years asked me about developing a VMS based product for him. > R > Seems that the product vendor was bought by another company, and that company byR > yet another.  Now they don't want to support the product, and various people areE > dropping support for X-25, so the product will soon become useless.d > O > My customer basically dominates his vertical market segment, with a VMS based O > product.  He really hates it when a vendor abandons him.  His logic is to owniF > the replacement product, thus not being subject to such 'surprises'. > R > Yes, there is VMS development.  Can't say how much.  There's also a large numberP > of people who feel that 'everyone' is moving to windoz, and they have to also.L > I see both sides.  Another past customer is looking for windoz software toQ > replace a working VMS application, mainly because they feel the world is movingn > to windoz. > E > Just hope my customer doesn't have to buy VMS to insure it's future  > availability.  :-)  H If they're already in the software business, perhaps them owning an o.s.E would be compatible with their business plan. Perhaps that could be ae# good thing for VMS. Y'never know...    --   David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:38:48 -0600, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com># Subject: SCSI Raid options for DS10r2 Message-ID: <a8oem6$rql$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  I It looks like we may finally be getting over the sales shutdown caused byoD compaq's alphacide last year; at least we're finally seeing signs ofF interest again.  One possible needs to keep the price down in the DS10J range, but is looking for RAID capability for fault tolerance.  It'll be aJ single node with either mirrorsets or raid-5 (or striped mirrors if we can; squeeze the price).  And it will _not_ be fiber; SCSI only.   L It appears that the dearth of moderately priced SCSI support for RAID fasterG than SCSI-2 (the KZPAC) or Ultra (KZPBA to external RA3000) with VMS is9J still in effect.  There are Ultra2 (KZPCA) and Ultra3 (KZPEA?) controllersL for independent disks, but none of the faster internal RAID controllers haveI received VMS support, as far as I can tell, and moderate priced externalsVJ (RA3000/HSZ22) are still limited to UltraWide and require the high-voltage differential adapter.e  F Is there by any chance any new hardware support coming out in the nearK future, either to allow the faster internal raid controllers (KZPCC), or totG provide > Ultrawide connectivity to external controllers under OpenVMS?-L This one issue is turning into a problem more and more frequently.  Any info appreciated.   Rich Jordan:   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 04:24:04 GMTo- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>@' Subject: Re: SCSI Raid options for DS10t* Message-ID: <3CAFCB86.3040102@qsl.network>   Rich Jordan wrote:B  > It looks like we may finally be getting over the sales shutdownA  > caused by compaq's alphacide last year; at least we're finallyeB  > seeing signs of interest again.  One possible needs to keep theG  > price down in the DS10 range, but is looking for RAID capability fordE  > fault tolerance.  It'll be a single node with either mirrorsets or C  > raid-5 (or striped mirrors if we can squeeze the price).  And ite"  > will _not_ be fiber; SCSI only.  >C  > It appears that the dearth of moderately priced SCSI support for-B  > RAID faster than SCSI-2 (the KZPAC) or Ultra (KZPBA to externalE  > RA3000) with VMS is still in effect.  There are Ultra2 (KZPCA) and E  > Ultra3 (KZPEA?) controllers for independent disks, but none of the"E  > faster internal RAID controllers have received VMS support, as faraB  > as I can tell, and moderate priced externals (RA3000/HSZ22) areG  > still limited to UltraWide and require the high-voltage differentialr  > adapter.e  >D  > Is there by any chance any new hardware support coming out in theD  > near future, either to allow the faster internal raid controllers>  > (KZPCC), or to provide > Ultrawide connectivity to externalF  > controllers under OpenVMS? This one issue is turning into a problem3  > more and more frequently.  Any info appreciated.v  C There are many storage solutions in that area being worked on.  At r? present time most of the ones that I am aware of have not been lC officially announced, so can not be discussed with out getting the d. product manager involved and a non-disclosure.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2002 13:22:06 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204061322.2b99c1f7@posting.google.com>r  0 remember m.c. hammer and "YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS"?1 why not hire him to do a vms commercial?  Insteade- of his line above, he could sing and dance toi   "YOU CAN'T HACK THIS"!  2 that would be an awesome commercial!  how about it) Sue, or anyone else in Q or HP marketing?e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:49:21 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>n. Subject: Re: VMS on 533au Ultimate Workstation/ Message-ID: <uav9bumjrvqree@news.supernews.com>o  & I always wondered where that came from  I My Dad, who appointed me head of his company for tax reasons, always saids that to me too.l   I also had an Uncle Bob?!?!!?!?  DT'n  3 Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in messagec$ news:3CAD5277.48BC9B1F@bluewin.ch... > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >  > > Didier Morandi wrote:o > > > F > > > Find a Firmware update CD, boot from it, apply the patch and Bob should be your > > > uncle :-)) > >T@ > > Is that a French expression that doesn't translate well into) > > English/American, or what did I miss?0 > >57 > For the record, Bob was indeed someone's uncle. From:u >c+ > http://www.word-detective.com/back-f.html8 >2J > "Bob's your uncle" is a way of saying "you're all set" or "you've got itD > made." It's a catch phrase dating back to 1887, when British PrimeD > Minister Robert Cecil (a.k.a. Lord Salisbury) decided to appoint aG > certain Arthur Balfour to the prestigious and sensitive post of ChiefoI > Secretary for Ireland. Not lost on the British public was the fact thatfF > Lord Salisbury just happened to be better known to Arthur Balfour asE > "Uncle Bob." In the resulting furor over what was seen as an act of I > blatant nepotism, "Bob's your uncle" became a popular sarcastic commentp? > applied to any situation where the outcome was preordained bybH > favoritism. As the scandal faded in public memory, the phrase lost its2 > edge and became just a synonym for "no problem." >0 >l > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:15:48 -08001 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@minspring.nospaam.com>n, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?2 Message-ID: <a8nl23$ag9$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>  8 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CAEA430.D1B60649@Free.fr.../C > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrate.D > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering Group J > when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > Alpha systems. > J > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > noone in Europe. >rB > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did) > compile/link them on their new systems.v >a	 > Thanks.h >y > D.  @ I used VEST on a reasonably large BASIC software product.  BASIC> was the last of the major 3GL compilers to be ported to Alpha.B We had customers buying Alphas, so, due to the lack of a compiler,? we had to ship VESTed images.  Our software largely worked, but.= not 100%.  As soon as a native version of our software becamee9 avaiable we stopped supporting the VESTed version, due tod occasional wierd problems.  @ One restriction with VEST that a lot of people ignored or forgot9 was that translating images with VEST that were linked on < any version of the OS later than 5.5-2 was not supported and" could possibly not work correctly.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 16:45:31 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>m, Subject: RE: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E3A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: DECmigrate ..7  ; In addition to the info in the FAQ, you can also reference:t7 http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/index.htmls   Regardsg  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantm Compaq Canada Corp.h Professional Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660m Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----9 From: Randy Park [mailto:rjpark@minspring.nospaam.com]=20  Sent: April 6, 2002 3:16 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?    8 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CAEA430.D1B60649@Free.fr...-F > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigrate=20G > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is a=20 F > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering=20I > Group when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to=20. > be run on Alpha systems. >9J > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know=20 > of noone in Europe.y >aE > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did=20 ) > compile/link them on their new systems.  >u	 > Thanks.f >  > D.  H I used VEST on a reasonably large BASIC software product.  BASIC was theG last of the major 3GL compilers to be ported to Alpha. We had customersrG buying Alphas, so, due to the lack of a compiler, we had to ship VESTedrH images.  Our software largely worked, but not 100%.  As soon as a nativeH version of our software became avaiable we stopped supporting the VESTed* version, due to occasional wierd problems.  D One restriction with VEST that a lot of people ignored or forgot wasH that translating images with VEST that were linked on any version of theA OS later than 5.5-2 was not supported and could possibly not workr
 correctly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 01:46:28 +0200p- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> , Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <3CAF88D4.948274B8@Free.fr>d  9 or http://www.sfgate.com/getoutside/1996/dec/migrate.htmln   :-)a   D.   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Re: DECmigrate ..e > = > In addition to the info in the FAQ, you can also reference: 9 > http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/index.htmlc   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 03:49:33 GMT,1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?' Message-ID: <3CAFC444.4632712B@fsi.net>F   Didier Morandi wrote:c > C > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigratecD > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering GroupeJ > when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > Alpha systems. > J > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > noone in Europe. > B > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did) > compile/link them on their new systems.d  C I was able to VEST the VRZ and VSZ programs (X/Y/ZMODEM support fortE Reflection from WRQ). The resulting programs seem to work at least as 4 well as their ALPHALK2 program, within their limits.  @ I'm also aware of a suburban company that still does their localG application development in DIBOL then VESTs the images and runs them oni< Alpha (Alpha DIBOL being a non-existant entity before it was$ transitioned to Synergy DBL, AFAIK).   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 03:34:45 GMTD1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...l' Message-ID: <3CAFC0AF.F51D62F9@fsi.net>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CAE5F2D.B9C115FF@fsi.net...g > > >sL > > > What was the part of the metaphor that dealt with being a tramp (and aL > > > morally bankrupt one at that)?  I'm almost up to speed now.  Bear with > me, I-5 > > > couldn't follow the plot of Eraser Head either.a > >rH > > *IF* the HP stockholders approve the merger, and *IF* she decides toH > > give VMS the axe, then as - who the hell was it? I gotta go back andJ > > look. Hold on a sec. ... Oh yeah - JF Mezei said, she would be _actingK > > like_ a "tramp (and a morally bankrupt one at that)", at which point it ( > > changes from a metaphor to a simile. > >S7 > > I still have a problem with this equation, however:, > >h > > "acting like" = "is" > >uH > > For some reason (in my experience, at least), 80% or more of a givenI > > audience will interpret "acting like" as "is" instead of accepting it J > > unedited. That is, they make it a direct assignment of quality instead? > > of leaving it a comparison of apparently similar qualities.g > >oJ > > Possessing a measured IQ of only 80, I'm unable to understand why that< > > happens, why people do that. Could someone enlighten me? > >c > I > Come on.  What you are really doing is defending the indefensible.  TheeK > entire comment was an offensive slur - regardless of how you try to parsei > it.   E In so far as you didn't address my direct question, I'll just go with  the shift in the flow here...i  E It WAS angry outburst, but every word was undeniably true. No need tou@ defend the truth. You can't call being pro-life sexist - the twoG concepts are incompatible. You can't call being pro-life indefensible - E the two concepts are incompatible. I don't promote anger, but it is avC natural response to a sense of outrage. So, I see no need to defendaA that, either. Violence - including elective abortion - I consider.
 indefensible.R  F > I'm as guilty at times as anyone in going just a little too far, butG > usually I will admit that I was wrong and speaking in the heat of the 	 > moment.O   Speaking metaphorically...  H Well, I have a *REAL* problem with people who "jump off a tall buidling"B the decide "halfway down" that they "don't want to die". At such aB point, you can make all the "choices" you want; in the end, you'reG powerless to change the result of a prior action: in the end, something H bad is going to happen: either the individual is going to have "grow up"@ very quickly and accept responsibility for one's actions, or theD individual is going to have to live for the rest of her life knowingF that she destroyed the innocent, defenseless life growing within her.   D Actions have consequences, and there's no number of "moral vagaries"7 that are going to change that inescapable fact of life.y  H So yeah, the mention of VMS's death at the hands of someone whose valuesG I consider to be hopelessly screwed up *DID* push one of my buttons. If>H anyone doesn't like it, too bleedin' bad - no one is going to change me,= and I'm not going to change until I see a good enough reason.   H As one of my mentors said, "if you don't stand for something you'll fallC for anything". IMHO, many people stand for value that don't support-H them, with the result that they "fall for" every "feel-good", temptationA that comes along, and the consequences be damned. That philosophy  usually backfires, of course.9   -- n David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.191 ************************