1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 08 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 194       Contents: Re: Alphaserver 1000a Problem  Re: An alpha Re: Anonymous ftp  RE: Anonymous ftp  RE: Anonymous ftp  RE: Anonymous ftp  RE: Anonymous ftp  Re: Anonymous ftp  RE: Anonymous ftp  Re: Anonymous ftp  RE: Anonymous ftp 0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe  Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...  Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...  Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...  Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ... Re: Blade architectures  RE: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: CMS library repair Re: Daylight savings Re: Daylight savings Re: DCL command procedure  Re: Digital 7-year plan...7 Digital TCP/IP for OpenVms and Basic Socket Programming ; Re: Digital TCP/IP for OpenVms and Basic Socket Programming ; Re: Digital TCP/IP for OpenVms and Basic Socket Programming  DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?  Re: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?  Re: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?  Re: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide? & Re: Generating MMS files with Decset ?1 How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? 5 Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP? F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX ; Re: Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For Alpha ; RE: Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For Alpha  Re: Is AMD doing an Intel?/ London OpenVMS Tech Update 11th/12th April BOF? 3 Re: London OpenVMS Tech Update 11th/12th April BOF?  Motif startup problem. Re: Motif startup problem.. RE: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes running( OpenVMS Performance tuning on a Wildfire, Re: OpenVMS Performance tuning on a Wildfire, RE: OpenVMS Performance tuning on a Wildfire Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3 Re: OT Re: British Summer Time) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it  RE: Scsi cluster Re: SCSI Raid options for DS10  RE: Security audit tools for VMS  Re: Security audit tools for VMS  Re: Security audit tools for VMS  Re: Security audit tools for VMS  Re: Security audit tools for VMS Re: Solid State disk drives  Re: Solid State disk drives 0 Re: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms! TNA devices in a cluster Re: TNA devices in a cluster Re: TNA devices in a cluster vendo vax 4000 VMS doesn't suck  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans  Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration PlansB Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?P Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu# Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate? 4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)4 Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:22:27 GMT , From: "Patrick Coulier" <patrick@delight.be>& Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000a Problem6 Message-ID: <Dbes8.21$kA2.19303@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>  H I had to post this messages several times until it appeared magically in this group.   . Looks like a Windows-try-again-until solution.   Patrick   > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> schreef in bericht! news:3CAE5B50.61F8CE0D@fsi.net...  > Patrick Coulier wrote: > >  > > Good news, > >  > > We found the problem ... > > I > > Some thin piece of metal from between the PCI-slotopenings came loose  and % > > made contact to the nearest chip.  > > K > > This was causing the intermittent hang during system startup (srom V1.0  cc
 > > hang). > > J > > Sometimes the systems started up but the internal SCSI ISP10x0 was not
 > > detected.  > > . > > Removing the piece of metal did the trick. > > @ > > Happy to have converted another good alphaserver to OpenVMS, > >  > > Patrick  > J > Am I having DejaGoogle, or did you post that same info. a while back and? > it somehow disappeared? ...and perhaps magically re-appeared?  >  > Gad, do I need a vacation... >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:42:37 +0200$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> Subject: Re: An alpha 3 Message-ID: <77hs8.1989$fL6.44650@news.cpqcorp.net>   - "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message / news:1020405030847.1634A-100000@Ives.egh.com...   G > A little terminology first:  There is no such thing as "root" on VMS.  > You mean "SYSTEM". > J > 2nd, you can't crack it, and neither can Satan.  (Well, maybe you could,9 > by brute force, but it would take hundreds of years...)   9 If and only if your brute force attack is smart enough to  - know the lgi parameters 1 - wait for a sufficient long time between 2 tries   K If you try very quickly a lot of passwords, you will disable that username, 
 nothing more.   C Have a look at the doc "7.5.6.3 System Parameters Controlling Login   Attempts" in the Security Manual   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 07:25:11 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp2 Message-ID: <3CB17E17.BF277F22@firstdbasource.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  > B > So you mean to tell me that Mozilla running on VMS7.3 also can't > handle it?  G I don't know... I don't use Motif on OpenVMS.  Netscape was at one time  called Mozilla was it not?  # Personally, I use the command line.    >  > > -----Original Message-----< > > From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]( > > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:51 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > > Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp > >  > >  > > Tom Linden wrote:  > > > I > > > Frank, I am sure that you are right, but it is a quixotic struggle. G > > > Unix and Windows ARE the internet world, and ftp on VMS should be D > > > no different than on any other platform, else it is deficient.
 > > It sounds J > > > like you want to take the mountain to Mohammed, and that ain't gonna
 > > > happen.  > > > H > > > But back to my original point, if ftp to a VMS system works with aI > > > command line interface (which obviously understands unix syntax) it 7 > > > ought to also with a browser.  What is different?  > >  > > H > > They don't use the same interface on the PC side. ftp != ftp != ftp.I > > The DOS version coded for the difference in directory structures, the G > > IE version does not, as it has to try an "icon-ize" the contents of A > > the directory.  To do that, It must completely understand the J > > file/directory structures and display them on the fly and is obviously > > not working. > > F > > If you want this to work use Netscape.  The problem is IE not VMS.! > > Netscape and Lynx works fine.  > >  > > -- > > Regards, > > ; > > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 ; > > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  > > Sr. Consultant > > 704-947-1089 (Office)  > > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)  > >    --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:20:57 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp3 Message-ID: <pY35oCqQuqOh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGEELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: E > Frank, I am sure that you are right, but it is a quixotic struggle. C > Unix and Windows ARE the internet world, and ftp on VMS should be K > no different than on any other platform, else it is deficient.  It sounds F > like you want to take the mountain to Mohammed, and that ain't gonna	 > happen.   D The FTP server provided with TCP/IP services version 5.1 is standardC compliant.  It responds to the LIST command with a list of files in F a system-specific format which is not supposed to be machine readable.  H The FTP client built into IE is apparently faulty.  It attempts to parse9 this system-specific directory listing and gets it wrong.   H Still, your point is well taken.  It's not like you're going to convinceF Microsoft to fix its browser to work properly with somebody else's FTP server software.  B What you need to do is turn on Unix emulation mode in your VMS FTPE server.  You should consider replacing the Compaq-provided FTP server > with Hunter Goatley's MadGoat FTP server.  I don't know if theD Compaq server can be persuaded to go into Unix emulation mode.  I do0 know that MadGoat FTP can be persuaded to do so.  @ Process Software's Multinet product automatically goes into Unix@ emulation mode upon receipt of certain commands.  Among those is5 the "CWD /" that IE likes to use at session start-up.   D > But back to my original point, if ftp to a VMS system works with aE > command line interface (which obviously understands unix syntax) it 3 > ought to also with a browser.  What is different?   D Browsers try to be pretty.  They want to display everything as if it@ were a DOS/Windows directory listing complete with date and sizeC information.  The only reasonable way to get that information is to G parse it out of the output of a LIST command.  And the output of a LIST @ command is not specified by the FTP standard.  However, a lot ofC servers use the Unix format for that output.  And so the easy thing B for a browser to do is to assume that the FTP server will use thatA format.  The right thing for a browser to do is to do some sanity D checking and fall back on a short form directory listing if all elseA fails.  But Microsoft is not well know for doing the right thing.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:35:34 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGOELAA.tom@kednos.com>    > -----Original Message-----B > From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]& > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 8:21 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp >  > A > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGEELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom  " > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:G > > Frank, I am sure that you are right, but it is a quixotic struggle. E > > Unix and Windows ARE the internet world, and ftp on VMS should be D > > no different than on any other platform, else it is deficient.   > It sounds H > > like you want to take the mountain to Mohammed, and that ain't gonna > > happen.  > F > The FTP server provided with TCP/IP services version 5.1 is standardE > compliant.  It responds to the LIST command with a list of files in H > a system-specific format which is not supposed to be machine readable. > J > The FTP client built into IE is apparently faulty.  It attempts to parse; > this system-specific directory listing and gets it wrong.  > J > Still, your point is well taken.  It's not like you're going to convinceH > Microsoft to fix its browser to work properly with somebody else's FTP > server software. > D > What you need to do is turn on Unix emulation mode in your VMS FTPG > server.  You should consider replacing the Compaq-provided FTP server @ > with Hunter Goatley's MadGoat FTP server.  I don't know if theF > Compaq server can be persuaded to go into Unix emulation mode.  I do2 > know that MadGoat FTP can be persuaded to do so.  J Interestingly, I (as a test) tried IE6 and Opera6.1 on W2k and Mozilla 9.9B on VMS7.3 and the only one that worked at ftp.process.com was IE6.  D I was under the impression that tcpip5.1 was a port from Tru64.  NowF if you use any browser and go to ftp://thor.kednos.com (Tru64 4.0d) itH works fine, but ftp://freja.kednos.com (VMS7.3)  it fails.  Was somebodyH asleep do the port?  I regard this as a serious deficiency in the modernI world.  Perhaps there is a way to configure the ftp server that I missed.    > B > Process Software's Multinet product automatically goes into UnixB > emulation mode upon receipt of certain commands.  Among those is7 > the "CWD /" that IE likes to use at session start-up.  > F > > But back to my original point, if ftp to a VMS system works with aG > > command line interface (which obviously understands unix syntax) it 5 > > ought to also with a browser.  What is different?  > F > Browsers try to be pretty.  They want to display everything as if itB > were a DOS/Windows directory listing complete with date and sizeE > information.  The only reasonable way to get that information is to I > parse it out of the output of a LIST command.  And the output of a LIST B > command is not specified by the FTP standard.  However, a lot ofE > servers use the Unix format for that output.  And so the easy thing D > for a browser to do is to assume that the FTP server will use thatC > format.  The right thing for a browser to do is to do some sanity F > checking and fall back on a short form directory listing if all elseC > fails.  But Microsoft is not well know for doing the right thing.   K Well it is obvious to me, from your comments, that if an ftp server doesn't H produce unix style output it is effectively broken, and that is going to5 impact, certainly use, if not sales of VMS platforms.    >  > 	John Briggs >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 10:44:28 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp3 Message-ID: <pNbWhA4vzUja@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGOELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: L > Interestingly, I (as a test) tried IE6 and Opera6.1 on W2k and Mozilla 9.9D > on VMS7.3 and the only one that worked at ftp.process.com was IE6.  D Note that Process Software supports two distinct TCP stacks for VMS.A They support TCPWare which they wrote.  And they support Multinet 8 which they acquired from Cisco who acquired it from TGV.  @ I wrote that the Multinet FTP server automatically switches into6 Unix emulation mode upon receipt of a "CWD /" command.  0 But ftp.process.com runs the TCPWare FTP server.  F > I was under the impression that tcpip5.1 was a port from Tru64.  NowH > if you use any browser and go to ftp://thor.kednos.com (Tru64 4.0d) itJ > works fine, but ftp://freja.kednos.com (VMS7.3)  it fails.  Was somebodyJ > asleep do the port?  I regard this as a serious deficiency in the modernK > world.  Perhaps there is a way to configure the ftp server that I missed.   < A popular implementation technique on Unix ftp servers is toI perform a LIST command by forking ls -l.  If you do the simplest possible = translation, you'll end up LIB$SPAWNing a DIR /FULL.  And the @ resulting directory listing will look nothing like a Unix format directory listing.  @ The fact that the FTP server was ported from a Unix code base isF not very relevant to the format of the directory listing produced by aC LIST command.  After all, the underlying file systems and directory  structures are different.   M > Well it is obvious to me, from your comments, that if an ftp server doesn't J > produce unix style output it is effectively broken, and that is going to7 > impact, certainly use, if not sales of VMS platforms.   B If you insist on using a VMS FTP server with a brain-dead browser,< pay the $0.00, install MadGoat FTP on the VMS side and solve the problem.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:02:46 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>: Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHDELAA.tom@kednos.com><   > -----Original Message-----B > From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]& > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 8:44 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComW > Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp >d >p@ > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGOELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom" > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:B > > Interestingly, I (as a test) tried IE6 and Opera6.1 on W2k and
 > Mozilla 9.9hF > > on VMS7.3 and the only one that worked at ftp.process.com was IE6. >nF > Note that Process Software supports two distinct TCP stacks for VMS.C > They support TCPWare which they wrote.  And they support MultinetT: > which they acquired from Cisco who acquired it from TGV. >rB > I wrote that the Multinet FTP server automatically switches into8 > Unix emulation mode upon receipt of a "CWD /" command. > 2 > But ftp.process.com runs the TCPWare FTP server. > H > > I was under the impression that tcpip5.1 was a port from Tru64.  NowJ > > if you use any browser and go to ftp://thor.kednos.com (Tru64 4.0d) itL > > works fine, but ftp://freja.kednos.com (VMS7.3)  it fails.  Was somebodyL > > asleep do the port?  I regard this as a serious deficiency in the modernC > > world.  Perhaps there is a way to configure the ftp server thatc > I missed.s >l> > A popular implementation technique on Unix ftp servers is toK > perform a LIST command by forking ls -l.  If you do the simplest possiblee? > translation, you'll end up LIB$SPAWNing a DIR /FULL.  And the B > resulting directory listing will look nothing like a Unix format > directory listing.  H But that is precisely my point,  they didn't produce the "correct" ouput for this application.y   > B > The fact that the FTP server was ported from a Unix code base isH > not very relevant to the format of the directory listing produced by aE > LIST command.  After all, the underlying file systems and directory  > structures are different.o  3 This also true for OS390, but that didn't stop IBM.    >f@ > > Well it is obvious to me, from your comments, that if an ftp > server doesn'tL > > produce unix style output it is effectively broken, and that is going to9 > > impact, certainly use, if not sales of VMS platforms.f > D > If you insist on using a VMS FTP server with a brain-dead browser,> > pay the $0.00, install MadGoat FTP on the VMS side and solve > the problem.  J Madgoat ftp server works with IE on W2k and Netscape on Tru64 4.0d but not Mozilla on VMS or Opera on W2k.A  J I will most likely do that.  As far as the browser is concerned, it is notJ what I use, but what my customers use.  Which browser do you regard as notJ brain dead?  My personal preference is Opera which i run on W2K, but I can tellK you that IE6 is light years ahead of Mozilla 9.9 which is not usuable in myN view.L   >m > 	John Briggs >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:31:35 -0400h1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>n Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp2 Message-ID: <3CB1C5E7.AB70E3B4@clarityconnect.com>  F The TCPIP Services FTP server is compliant with the applicable RFCs inG how it produces it's file list.  It is the FTP clients that cannot deal A w/ a non-Unix style file list that are non-compliant.  Compaq hastB discussed this MANY MANY times with Microsoft and other FTP clientD vendors but they refuse to bring their code into compliance with theH applicable RFCs.  If you run across an FTP client that cannot handle theF file list from a TCPIP V5.1 + latest ECOs FTP server then elevate this@ issue to the vendor of the FTP client and point them to RFC 959.   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:f > a > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGOELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: N > > Interestingly, I (as a test) tried IE6 and Opera6.1 on W2k and Mozilla 9.9F > > on VMS7.3 and the only one that worked at ftp.process.com was IE6. > F > Note that Process Software supports two distinct TCP stacks for VMS.C > They support TCPWare which they wrote.  And they support Multinetp: > which they acquired from Cisco who acquired it from TGV. > B > I wrote that the Multinet FTP server automatically switches into8 > Unix emulation mode upon receipt of a "CWD /" command. > 2 > But ftp.process.com runs the TCPWare FTP server. > H > > I was under the impression that tcpip5.1 was a port from Tru64.  NowJ > > if you use any browser and go to ftp://thor.kednos.com (Tru64 4.0d) itL > > works fine, but ftp://freja.kednos.com (VMS7.3)  it fails.  Was somebodyL > > asleep do the port?  I regard this as a serious deficiency in the modernM > > world.  Perhaps there is a way to configure the ftp server that I missed.p > > > A popular implementation technique on Unix ftp servers is toK > perform a LIST command by forking ls -l.  If you do the simplest possibleo? > translation, you'll end up LIB$SPAWNing a DIR /FULL.  And theiB > resulting directory listing will look nothing like a Unix format > directory listing. > B > The fact that the FTP server was ported from a Unix code base isH > not very relevant to the format of the directory listing produced by aE > LIST command.  After all, the underlying file systems and directory  > structures are different.o > O > > Well it is obvious to me, from your comments, that if an ftp server doesn'ttL > > produce unix style output it is effectively broken, and that is going to9 > > impact, certainly use, if not sales of VMS platforms.a > D > If you insist on using a VMS FTP server with a brain-dead browser,> > pay the $0.00, install MadGoat FTP on the VMS side and solve > the problem. >  >         John Briggs.   -- iC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYv0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:41:37 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEHGELAA.tom@kednos.com>s  B Let's get real!  Me escalating this with Microsoft or anybody elseE for that matter is only a waste of my time.  If Compaq can't convincen0 Microsoft to conform to the RFCs I surely can't.  G I think it is Compaq that isn't paying attention, Microsoft isn't goingtI to change, so you will have to, or accept the fact that VMS can't be usedtB as an ftp server.  I am trying to accomodate my customers, I think Compaq should do the same.   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Mark D. Jilson [mailto:jilly@clarityconnect.com]& > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 9:32 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr > Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp >u >tH > The TCPIP Services FTP server is compliant with the applicable RFCs inI > how it produces it's file list.  It is the FTP clients that cannot deal C > w/ a non-Unix style file list that are non-compliant.  Compaq hasjD > discussed this MANY MANY times with Microsoft and other FTP clientF > vendors but they refuse to bring their code into compliance with theJ > applicable RFCs.  If you run across an FTP client that cannot handle theH > file list from a TCPIP V5.1 + latest ECOs FTP server then elevate thisB > issue to the vendor of the FTP client and point them to RFC 959. >n! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > > B > > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGOELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom" > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:@ > > > Interestingly, I (as a test) tried IE6 and Opera6.1 on W2k > and Mozilla 9.9tH > > > on VMS7.3 and the only one that worked at ftp.process.com was IE6. > >lH > > Note that Process Software supports two distinct TCP stacks for VMS.E > > They support TCPWare which they wrote.  And they support Multinet < > > which they acquired from Cisco who acquired it from TGV. > > D > > I wrote that the Multinet FTP server automatically switches into: > > Unix emulation mode upon receipt of a "CWD /" command. > >04 > > But ftp.process.com runs the TCPWare FTP server. > > J > > > I was under the impression that tcpip5.1 was a port from Tru64.  NowL > > > if you use any browser and go to ftp://thor.kednos.com (Tru64 4.0d) it@ > > > works fine, but ftp://freja.kednos.com (VMS7.3)  it fails. > Was somebodyC > > > asleep do the port?  I regard this as a serious deficiency inl > the modern@ > > > world.  Perhaps there is a way to configure the ftp server > that I missed. > > @ > > A popular implementation technique on Unix ftp servers is to; > > perform a LIST command by forking ls -l.  If you do thei > simplest possible A > > translation, you'll end up LIB$SPAWNing a DIR /FULL.  And theaD > > resulting directory listing will look nothing like a Unix format > > directory listing. > > D > > The fact that the FTP server was ported from a Unix code base isJ > > not very relevant to the format of the directory listing produced by aG > > LIST command.  After all, the underlying file systems and directory  > > structures are different.g > >yB > > > Well it is obvious to me, from your comments, that if an ftp > server doesn'tB > > > produce unix style output it is effectively broken, and that
 > is going toi; > > > impact, certainly use, if not sales of VMS platforms.p > >PF > > If you insist on using a VMS FTP server with a brain-dead browser,@ > > pay the $0.00, install MadGoat FTP on the VMS side and solve > > the problem. > >p > >         John Briggst >t > --E > Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 2 > 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan0 > 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so. > 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               - >v   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:02:14 +0200p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp' Message-ID: <3CB1CD16.45E86CE3@aaa.com>   9 Isn't there a logical to get the FTP server to return thei* file list in a more unix friendly format ?  ; Or that might have been for the MXFTP server, I'm not sure.oF And if so, the MXFTP server is free (I think) and can be used together9 with the rest of SQL/Services (with FTP disabled), AFAIK.o   Jan-Erik Sderholm.l   PS.e8 And reagring the subject, this isn't a question only for *anonymous* ftp, is it ? DS.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:33:46 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o Subject: RE: Anonymous ftp9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEHIELAA.tom@kednos.com>r  A I don't mean to offend but you seem to be living in a subjunctivei@ world.  You call it it cavalierly " a few browsers" .  Those fewB browsers probably account for more than 80% of the total.  So whatA you are implying is that you only are interested in competing foreB the remaining 20% or whatever the number is.  Standards don't workC where a monoply is present.  THAT becomes the standard, whether youu> like it or not.  The RFC is in this case, alas, is irrelevant.  F Whether Compaq complies with various standards is a subordinated issueD to whether it works and which  market opportunities does it address.   (Now for the plug)  E Imagine, if you will, how IBM might react in a similar situation, anduF that is why HPaQ will never effectively compete with IBM.  They listen) to their customers and eract accordingly.9   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Mark D. Jilson [mailto:jilly@clarityconnect.com]' > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 10:23 AMh > To: Tom Linden > Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp >  > J > What is the point in having RFCs then if a company can be so big that itH > can ignore them, implement things the way they want and force everyone > to change to follow them?e >eI > Compaq TCPIP Services for OpenVMS V5.1 is compliant with the applicable-G > standards but you want Compaq to implement a change that takes it outiH > compliance just for the sake of a few browsers that think the world isG > controlled by Microsoft?  There are more FTP servers that IE et al doh > not work with besides ours.  >a > Tom Linden wrote:  > >gF > > Let's get real!  Me escalating this with Microsoft or anybody elseI > > for that matter is only a waste of my time.  If Compaq can't convince54 > > Microsoft to conform to the RFCs I surely can't. > > K > > I think it is Compaq that isn't paying attention, Microsoft isn't goingm? > > to change, so you will have to, or accept the fact that VMSe > can't be usedeF > > as an ftp server.  I am trying to accomodate my customers, I think > > Compaq should do the same. > >g  > > > -----Original Message-----< > > > From: Mark D. Jilson [mailto:jilly@clarityconnect.com]* > > > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 9:32 AM > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como  > > > Subject: Re: Anonymous ftp > > >t > > >ML > > > The TCPIP Services FTP server is compliant with the applicable RFCs inA > > > how it produces it's file list.  It is the FTP clients thatm
 > cannot dealeG > > > w/ a non-Unix style file list that are non-compliant.  Compaq has H > > > discussed this MANY MANY times with Microsoft and other FTP clientJ > > > vendors but they refuse to bring their code into compliance with theC > > > applicable RFCs.  If you run across an FTP client that cannote > handle theL > > > file list from a TCPIP V5.1 + latest ECOs FTP server then elevate thisF > > > issue to the vendor of the FTP client and point them to RFC 959. > > >1% > > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:t > > > >oF > > > > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEGOELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom& > > > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:D > > > > > Interestingly, I (as a test) tried IE6 and Opera6.1 on W2k > > > and Mozilla 9.9 L > > > > > on VMS7.3 and the only one that worked at ftp.process.com was IE6. > > > >iL > > > > Note that Process Software supports two distinct TCP stacks for VMS.I > > > > They support TCPWare which they wrote.  And they support Multinet @ > > > > which they acquired from Cisco who acquired it from TGV. > > > >iH > > > > I wrote that the Multinet FTP server automatically switches into> > > > > Unix emulation mode upon receipt of a "CWD /" command. > > > >e8 > > > > But ftp.process.com runs the TCPWare FTP server. > > > > B > > > > > I was under the impression that tcpip5.1 was a port from
 > Tru64.  Nowy@ > > > > > if you use any browser and go to ftp://thor.kednos.com > (Tru64 4.0d) it D > > > > > works fine, but ftp://freja.kednos.com (VMS7.3)  it fails. > > > Was somebodyG > > > > > asleep do the port?  I regard this as a serious deficiency ing > > > the modernD > > > > > world.  Perhaps there is a way to configure the ftp server > > > that I missed. > > > > D > > > > A popular implementation technique on Unix ftp servers is to? > > > > perform a LIST command by forking ls -l.  If you do the  > > > simplest possibleiE > > > > translation, you'll end up LIB$SPAWNing a DIR /FULL.  And the H > > > > resulting directory listing will look nothing like a Unix format > > > > directory listing. > > > >eH > > > > The fact that the FTP server was ported from a Unix code base is@ > > > > not very relevant to the format of the directory listing > produced by aiK > > > > LIST command.  After all, the underlying file systems and directoryi! > > > > structures are different.s > > > > F > > > > > Well it is obvious to me, from your comments, that if an ftp > > > server doesn'tF > > > > > produce unix style output it is effectively broken, and that > > > is going tov? > > > > > impact, certainly use, if not sales of VMS platforms.  > > > >iJ > > > > If you insist on using a VMS FTP server with a brain-dead browser,D > > > > pay the $0.00, install MadGoat FTP on the VMS side and solve > > > > the problem. > > > >s > > > >         John Briggsr > > >s > > > --I > > > Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY C > > >       - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett  > Bodine fanC > > >       - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com                        - since- > 1975 or so7 > > >       - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -i > > >f >s > --E > Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 2 > 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan0 > 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so. > 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               - >6   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:49:45 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybes& Message-ID: <3CB1CA29.3030800@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  5 > On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 15:22:21 +0100, Andrew Harrisond5 > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote:d >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> > D >>>Ah, okay.  Now I see.  This is a top500 based on the running of a >>>benchmark (LINPACK).. >>>  >>>V >> >>? >>>I take it that this is a more favorable benchmark than SPEC?e >>>  >>>s >>? >>Well in this case yes its what they chose to use as a measureT> >>BTW what did you think you were refering to when you refered >>to SPEC, int, fp, jbb, web.i >> >> >> > F > Well, the particular SPEC isn't important to me.  I'm just trying toE > understand how you choose which benchmarks you consider to be validt > for comparisons. >     @ As ever you missed the point. The top500.org list isn't compiled> by Sun or any other vendor. top500 have chosen to use Linpack.  ( http://www.top500.org/lists/linpack.html      : You may not like Linpack as a measure if you don't take it; up with them. Until then the list remains one of the bettere- compilation of supercomputer sites worldwide.r   Regardst Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:19:15 +0000 (UTC)9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>.) Subject: Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...l- Message-ID: <a8rjq3$n97$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   ) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:l9 : now that we have proved that vms in "unhackable", it is    What proof?l3 Even some from VMS engineering say things contrary.    Have a good look at   5 http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.htmli  = : it's still not too late Bill to buy vms/alpha and dominate!y  / And have the full chance to let VMS degenerate?   " Bad security habits die very hard.   __
 -Roar Thronse   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 05:47:16 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...n= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204080447.78cf3a09@posting.google.com>   [ Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:<a8rjq3$n97$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>...s+ > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: ; > : now that we have proved that vms in "unhackable", it ise > 
 > What proof?r5 > Even some from VMS engineering say things contrary.e >  > Have a good look att > 7 > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.htmlh >  > __ > -Roar Thronsi  E we are talking about hacking and buffer overflows, not login securitywG concerns ... your link above is irrelevant to the topic ... vms remainsi< the only "unhackable" os ... unless you can prove otherwise!   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:18:46 -0500h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...r3 Message-ID: <jSTjA$GBrwNW@eisner.encompasserve.org>j  h In article <d7791aa1.0204051305.6cc5c6b4@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:9 > now that we have proved that vms in "unhackable", it ist6 > a shame Bill Gates didn't put windoze on top off vms8 > instead of dos or trying to to steal mica vms code for > nt  F    Then we'd have MS Word running on top of VMS, and MS Outlook.  BothB    full of and susceptible to application specific security holes.  C    Even VMS can prevent you from writing a bad app and inviting thee    devil in.  
    No thanks.    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:34:13 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: Bill Gates "big" mistake ...t+ Message-ID: <a8s9p5$sjc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>.  h In article <d7791aa1.0204080447.78cf3a09@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:\ >Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:<a8rjq3$n97$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>..., >> Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:< >> : now that we have proved that vms in "unhackable", it is >>   >> What proof?6 >> Even some from VMS engineering say things contrary. >> f >> Have a good look at >> t8 >> http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.html >> aN Exactly what are we supposed to see from this apart from the fact that VMS 6.1H was certified as a C2 system and SEVMS 6.1 was certified as a B1 system.  L Note 1. This classification just means that the OS involved provides certainI builtin security mechanisms such as auditing and discretionary or (for B1iK claasification) mandatory access control. Most commercial OS's which gainedeO such certification went for C2 security. B1 or above were usually restricted toeO OSs or versions of OSs which were destined for Government or Military use wheres@ mandatory access control (Secret, Top secret etc) were required.H The fact that an OS had these builtin mechanisms says nothing about how K secure that OS is from buffer overflows or other coding problems in the OS.tN (After all NT got a C2 certification). It also doesn't mean that an OS shippedN with all these facilities available or turned on. Most Unix systems even todayM require additional software to be loaded and configured to conform to what is ! required for C2 level compliance.       O Note 2. You may have noticed that the evaluated systems are rather old systems.rN Looking at the dates for various OSs it appears the last system completed it's evaluation in 1998. 5 This is because this rating system is no longer used.iK However systems are often referred to as C2 or B1 compliant if they provideoK the required features since the criteria for the replacement classification : system (the common criteria) appear to be much less clear.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University M  .     >> __a >> -Roar Throns >oF >we are talking about hacking and buffer overflows, not login securityH >concerns ... your link above is irrelevant to the topic ... vms remains= >the only "unhackable" os ... unless you can prove otherwise!L   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 15:25:11 GMTa  From: hack@watson.ibm.com (hack)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures+ Message-ID: <a8scon$s08$1@news.btv.ibm.com>n  M In article <a8n838$t2o@web.nmti.com>, Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:sN >In article <a8ki0e$c5c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>, hack <hack@watson.ibm.com> wrote:M >> When we (the group that developed the experimental OS that I'm still usingoK >> 20 years later) developed our network protocols over Ethernet, we had NOeK >> connection timeouts whatsoever.  (Time only entered into the exponential N >> backoff algorithm at the lowest level, below connections.)  This meant thatN >> we could start a remote-backup process on Friday night and see it completedO >> on Monday morning even though the network was scheduled for maintenance overtO >> the weekend (involving cutting and rerouting cables).  Most other people hadi< >> to worry about this (they were using TCP-based services). > = >What does their using TCP-based services have to do with it?i >tK >Or do you mean "they were using applications that either implemented theireK >own timeouts, or set TCP socket options to force timeouts, or were using a > >network stack that forced timeouts for some perverse reason"? >nK >I have certainly had sessions maintained through hours-long interruptions,NH >and I was absolutely flabbergasted the first time I had a Windows-basedJ >system CLOSE ALL MY NETWORK CONNECTIONS when I moved a network cable from@ >the 10M hub under my desk to the nice new 100M port on my wall. > K >There's some really broken network stacks and applications, but TCP itselfkH >should happily keep resending packets into the void as long as need be.  H The *protocol* (TCP) includes bounded time-outs on the order of 45s, andI these are necessary because of the short (16-bit) sequence numbers.  This J is to protect against confusing a new stream whose sequence number happensB to match the next expected sequence number of an abandoned stream.  I I always attributed the observed fact that many applications die when theoI physical connection is broken to this.  It may well be possible to take a I TCP connection though a sequence of states that permits unbounded periods J of idleness, but my impression was that stopping transmission at arbitraryH points in time for arbitrary amounts of time was disruptive to TCP-basedC applications (above and beyond extra time required for completion).   L You may be right though that many applications simply don't use the protocol in a robust manner.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:36:23 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>U  Subject: RE: Blade architectures9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEHBELAA.tom@kednos.com>U  1 Try moving an ethernet cable in a running cluster    > -----Original Message-----) > From: hack [mailto:hack@watson.ibm.com]n& > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 8:25 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: Re: Blade architectures >r >y6 > In article <a8n838$t2o@web.nmti.com>, Peter da Silva > <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:3 > >In article <a8ki0e$c5c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>, hack  > <hack@watson.ibm.com> wrote:C > >> When we (the group that developed the experimental OS that I'mr
 > still usingnC > >> 20 years later) developed our network protocols over Ethernet,e > we had NO A > >> connection timeouts whatsoever.  (Time only entered into the 
 > exponentialm? > >> backoff algorithm at the lowest level, below connections.)o > This meant that C > >> we could start a remote-backup process on Friday night and seet > it completed@ > >> on Monday morning even though the network was scheduled for > maintenance over@ > >> the weekend (involving cutting and rerouting cables).  Most > other people had> > >> to worry about this (they were using TCP-based services). > > ? > >What does their using TCP-based services have to do with it?n > >r; > >Or do you mean "they were using applications that eitherX > implemented theiru@ > >own timeouts, or set TCP socket options to force timeouts, or > were using a@ > >network stack that forced timeouts for some perverse reason"? > >r> > >I have certainly had sessions maintained through hours-long > interruptions,J > >and I was absolutely flabbergasted the first time I had a Windows-basedL > >system CLOSE ALL MY NETWORK CONNECTIONS when I moved a network cable fromB > >the 10M hub under my desk to the nice new 100M port on my wall. > > B > >There's some really broken network stacks and applications, but > TCP itselfJ > >should happily keep resending packets into the void as long as need be. > J > The *protocol* (TCP) includes bounded time-outs on the order of 45s, andK > these are necessary because of the short (16-bit) sequence numbers.  ThistL > is to protect against confusing a new stream whose sequence number happensD > to match the next expected sequence number of an abandoned stream. >.K > I always attributed the observed fact that many applications die when theoK > physical connection is broken to this.  It may well be possible to take arK > TCP connection though a sequence of states that permits unbounded periodsnL > of idleness, but my impression was that stopping transmission at arbitraryJ > points in time for arbitrary amounts of time was disruptive to TCP-basedE > applications (above and beyond extra time required for completion).d > A > You may be right though that many applications simply don't uses > the protocol > in a robust manner.v >    ------------------------------   Date: 08 Apr 2002 15:43:44 GMT+ From: mailer-daemon@bof.de (Patrick Schaaf)r  Subject: Re: Blade architectures5 Message-ID: <3cb1bab0$0$347$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>i  " hack@watson.ibm.com (hack) writes:  L >>There's some really broken network stacks and applications, but TCP itselfI >>should happily keep resending packets into the void as long as need be.r  I >The *protocol* (TCP) includes bounded time-outs on the order of 45s, and D >these are necessary because of the short (16-bit) sequence numbers.  % Huh? TCP sequence numbers are 32 bit.    >ThishK >is to protect against confusing a new stream whose sequence number happensfC >to match the next expected sequence number of an abandoned stream.p  E This, and the corresponding timers, does not apply to ESTABLISHED TCP D connections. There is no "idle timer" for an ESTABLISHED connection,+ in the absence of (optional) TCP keepalive.m  J >I always attributed the observed fact that many applications die when the' >physical connection is broken to this.n   Then you were mistaken.c  " >It may well be possible to take aJ >TCP connection though a sequence of states that permits unbounded periodsK >of idleness, but my impression was that stopping transmission at arbitraryhI >points in time for arbitrary amounts of time was disruptive to TCP-basedcD >applications (above and beyond extra time required for completion).  E No, not at all. I regularly have TCP connections without transmissiontC surviving days, and that's how things supposed to behave. Nowadays,iB a complication arises from firewalls and other stateful inspectionD boxes on your path: they often do TCP connection tracking, and beingD a "man in the middle", they cannot distinguish idle connections fromE connections where both sides crashed. As a consequence, these "men in1@ the middle" have timeouts on ESTABLISHED idle connections. As an? example, the common Linux 2.4 iptables conntracking has a 5 dayiG timeout in the ESTABLISEHD state. A Checkpoint FW-1 I have the pleasureiB to work with, appears to have the timeouts in the two-hours range,4 if I interpret my dying idle ssh sessions correctly.   best regards	   Patricko   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:43:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y  Subject: Re: Blade architectures, Message-ID: <3CB1C8B1.2334F0DE@videotron.ca>   Tom Linden wrote:  > 3 > Try moving an ethernet cable in a running clusterc  C If the cable can't move, the cluster won't be able to run very far..   :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:25:01 +0000 (UTC)5 From: dontspamlewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)r Subject: Re: CMS library repaira. Message-ID: <a8sg8s$f0l$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  } "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes in article <3CAF1A39.1384.5E2A1B@localhost> dated Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:54:33 -0500: O >> Which CMS version are you using for VERIFY/REPAIR?  If it's 3.X then yes thelL >> upgrade might "fix" the library.  If it's 4.X then you probably corruptedN >> the library with 3.X and upgrading won't fix it but it will prevent similar >> corruptions in the future.b >o@ >I run the repair with V4.1, which is where I first noticed the > >problem.  If I do the repair twice, the problems go away and  >everything appears normal.t  4 That's daylight at the end of the proverbial tunnel.  C >Are you saying that I should repair the libraries with 3.X first,  B >then upgrade to 4.1?  Or just jump ahead to 4.1 and hope for the F >best?  And what sort of symptoms would I expect with a corrupted CMS 	 >library?e  ; I would avoid doing anything at all using the old versions.e  
 My advice:  K * Upgrade the other nodes to 4.1 immediately (IIRC no reboot is needed, you G just have to run CMS$STARTUP.COM by hand if you upgrade a shared systemr disk).C * Make a backup of your CMS libraries if you don't already have oneaB * Make 2 more verify/repair passes after the upgrades are complete  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:38:09 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: Daylight savings 3 Message-ID: <lXhs8.1994$fL6.45385@news.cpqcorp.net>   : In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFKELAA.tom@kednos.com>, % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  ..A >                                           ... I discovered thats@ >one of my systems didn't have daylight svaings set, 6.2 on AXP.  @ OpenVMS systems prior to V7.3 do not have a mechanism to change B between standard and daylight time.  DTSS can do this if installed on these systems   A >And, UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM is not on the system, so I copied a file2 >into SYS$MANAGER and...  K UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM was not part of V6.2; it is a later addition to OpenVMS.uI There is no reason to expect that UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM, or for that matter,C= any procedure, copied from another version will work on V6.2.5  D To change to/from daylight/standard time on OpenVMS V6.2 execute theL command procedure UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM.  Look up the TDF (Time DifferentialG Factor) for your timezone (daylight or standard time) first.  I believe D this is found in the system manager's manual, or in the installation guide.  (Not sure which/both)e  K After accepting the TDF, UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM will ask if you wan to enteru; a time adjustment.  Enter + or - 1:00 hour, as appropriate.   F If you are *SURE* that you do not AND WILL NOT care about TDF, you can just do a SET TIME.y   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:43:31 -0400k* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Daylight savingsn) Message-ID: <3CB1BAA3.6070401@compaq.com>o   Charlie Hammond wrote:B > OpenVMS systems prior to V7.3 do not have a mechanism to change D > between standard and daylight time.  DTSS can do this if installed > on these systems   Hmmm?.  H My V7.2-1 system (I don't have DTSS installed) changed automatically on  Sunday.  How am I special?   John Reagann   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:15:19 GMTt8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)" Subject: Re: DCL command procedure3 Message-ID: <XBhs8.1992$fL6.45199@news.cpqcorp.net>a  + In article <a8lmkd$nth2@rain.i-cable.com>, u- "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> writes:   0 >Is the $ sign a must in the command procedure? B >It's working even I don't give the $ sign on each command line...  , The $ sign is required syntax by definition.  F Most, or at least much, of the time DCL will work if you leave it off, but NOT ALL OF THE TIME!  C My recommendation is that you regard DCL command lines which do NOTt- start with a $ as being broken, and fix them.n   -- tK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAeH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 14:25:50 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)d# Subject: Re: Digital 7-year plan...w+ Message-ID: <a8s99e$r9a$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>t  J In article <rdeininger-0404021933560001@1cust53.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,5  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: ? |> In article <a8ih310pag@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Frank Sapienza"K |> <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote:  |>   |> kM |> >Ok, it's been a month and nobody has called me back.  Worse yet, since my9O |> >call to 1-800-Oracle1 I attended the RDB Technical Forum in NYC a couple ofwM |> >weeks ago.  They asked everyone to fill out the usual questionnaire aboutiM |> >whether it was useful, blah, blah, blah.  At the bottom of the form was aeM |> >question about whether you would like to be contacted by Oracle or CompaqaN |> >sales.  I said yes to being contacted by Oracle.  Still no phone call.  (IP |> >will admit that the folks at that event told me to e-mail them directly if IM |> >had continued problems getting sales information, but I haven't done that8; |> >yet.  It's no longer on the front-burner, so to speak.)k |> jH |> So you have email contact info for people who OFFERED to help you cutM |> through corporate red tape, and you aren't using it.  It sounds to me like@G |> the folks you met all but told you to expect crappy service from the M |> "normal" oracle channel, and they pretty much volunteered to go beyond thebD |> call of duty.  But YOU need to initiate the contact, to give themJ |> plausible deniability when/if they get caught doing someone else's job.  D I think the point is that the customer shouldn't have to do this.  IF still live by the old philosophy that demands service to the customer.D I am also known for not giving second chances.  If I get bad serviceE in a store, restaurant or from a vendor, I don't give second chances.hE No one has a lock on any market.  That means it is up to the businesslB to separate me from my wallet and I am not going work real hard toB give them my money. (and I spend my employers money like it was my own!!)   |> u3 |> Obviously, you should use those email addresses.r  # Obviously, he should not have to!!!n   bill   -- wJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:37:01 +02004 From: "Jaume \(Mantis\)" <jaume@mantis-software.com>@ Subject: Digital TCP/IP for OpenVms and Basic Socket Programming, Message-ID: <a8rkp8$56m$1@diana.bcn.ttd.net>  . We have a aplication developer with Dec-Basic.  A This aplication running in Alpha 1200 and using ports type LATCP.y   We need use ports TCP/IP..  . Single I have found information in language C.C  ( DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS System Services and C Socket 
 Programming )t  B Somebody can say to me where is information in language DEC-BASIC?   Thank's.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 08:32:55 -0700r) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)mD Subject: Re: Digital TCP/IP for OpenVms and Basic Socket Programming= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204080732.4ef0d3fc@posting.google.com>>  h "Jaume \(Mantis\)" <jaume@mantis-software.com> wrote in message news:<a8rkp8$56m$1@diana.bcn.ttd.net>...0 > We have a aplication developer with Dec-Basic. > C > This aplication running in Alpha 1200 and using ports type LATCP.  >  > We need use ports TCP/IP.. > 0 > Single I have found information in language C.E >  ( DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS System Services and C Socket@ > Programming )n > D > Somebody can say to me where is information in language DEC-BASIC? >    Sounds like fun!  A Using "ports TCP/IP" is traditionally a UNIX affair and hence theW> programming interface is C related.... however you are in luckA with TCP/IP services as there is a QIO interface that may be used ( with any supported programming language.   You even get the include file: i   H dir sys$library:*tcpip*.basa   Directory VMS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]o   TCPIP$INETDEF.BAS;1e   Total of 1 file.  9 Yup, VMS BASIC is pretty cool. I'd write you some examplem: code, however it is too late at night right now - and I've& never tried it - I usually do it in C.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:05:38 GMT>! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>nD Subject: Re: Digital TCP/IP for OpenVms and Basic Socket Programming> Message-ID: <Xns91EA84F973133acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  C "Jaume \(Mantis\)" <jaume@mantis-software.com> enlightened us with t$ news:a8rkp8$56m$1@diana.bcn.ttd.net:  0 > We have a aplication developer with Dec-Basic. > C > This aplication running in Alpha 1200 and using ports type LATCP.  >  > We need use ports TCP/IP.. > 0 > Single I have found information in language C.? >  ( DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS System Services and C e Socket > Programming )t > > > Somebody can say to me where is information in language DEC- BASIC?  ? Among other things, Neil Rieck has several examples that might k
 help here:  A http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_vax_vms.html#my_demos   C I ran across them a few weeks/months ago in search of the same typeh	 of thing.e   Hope this helps.   -Andy- --     ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 07:35:11 -0700m/ From: ratkinson@tbs-ltd.co.uk (Robert Atkinson)   Subject: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?= Message-ID: <ee8fff65.0204080635.46df9c7c@posting.google.com>n  D Does anyone know where I can find a VMS DISKQUOTA For Dummies guide?  # I'd like a list of do's and dont's.o  D The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of putting a QUOTA.SYS file onF each of my drives, mainly to stop ANAL/DISK errors from appearing, butD I wan't to know if it will have any adverse effects on the system or performance.     Thanks, Robert.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:42:17 GMTn' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>c$ Subject: Re: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?$ Message-ID: <3cb1ba56$1@zfree.co.nz>  D Do not worry about analyze/disk since it is an informational message? only. DCL provides control over the severity level, with the ON.# statement and the $SEVERITY symbol.eD Diskquota are checked when files are opened and closed. These checksC take resources. The utility sets quota and an optional overdraft so2E you can configure the quotas in such a way that they hardly interferer- with user activities. Then again, why bother?o  0 ratkinson@tbs-ltd.co.uk (Robert Atkinson) wrote:E >Does anyone know where I can find a VMS DISKQUOTA For Dummies guide?m >r$ >I'd like a list of do's and dont's. >pE >The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of putting a QUOTA.SYS file ondG >each of my drives, mainly to stop ANAL/DISK errors from appearing, buttE >I wan't to know if it will have any adverse effects on the system or 
 >performance.g >t >a >Thanks, Robert.       http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:52:47 +0100n( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>$ Subject: Re: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?* Message-ID: <3CB1BCCF.1050001@bigfoot.com>   Robert Atkinson wrote:  E >Does anyone know where I can find a VMS DISKQUOTA For Dummies guide?h >w$ >I'd like a list of do's and dont's. >WE >The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of putting a QUOTA.SYS file onOG >each of my drives, mainly to stop ANAL/DISK errors from appearing, buthE >I wan't to know if it will have any adverse effects on the system or 
 >performance.  >n >o >Thanks, Robert. >tE If I remember rightly (it's been a long time since I used quotas) go o) into  SYSMAN and do a help from in there.p  F If the messages from ANAL/DISK worry you that much you can create the H quota.sys (CREATE) file and then disable quotas (DISABLE) on the drive. F I wouldn't enable quotas unless you really have to 'cos they can be a C REAL pain to administer, however I have previously run development iH systems with quotas where everyone had a quota equal to the size of the F disk, that way you get quick info on who's  using what but don't have C the grief of managing the quotas. I expect there's an I/O overhead fF incurred when quota's are enabled but as the  quota file is cached it I shouldn't be too damaging unless there's a lot of file creation/deletion eJ going on. Don't enable them on the systen disk, it's not worth the effort.   Put's on old geezer's hat:-t  H I once managed a system where we were so short of disk space that every E night I ran a batch job which reduced the developers  quotas to  10%  G below what they were actually using therefore no-one could do any work pG untill they had sat down and cleaned up all the cr@p from the previous  F day! The job also put a graph into the sys$welcome  file which showed E who was using up all the disk space, that was in the days when disks nD were expensive and you had to have muscles to change a disk pack ;-)       -- -, Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:32:30 +0200:9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n$ Subject: Re: DISKQUOTA Basics Guide?' Message-ID: <3CB1C61E.9A14AE6A@aaa.com>   6 If you'd only want diskquota to see what each user are3 using, but you don't want the overhead of diskquotas2 management during peak-hours, you could create the* diskquota file and then disable diskquota.  ' Then, at non-peak-time (night ?), run :    $ mc diskquota use <your-disk>T enable rebuildr
 show [*,*] disablei exit $ exit  3 This will give you a up-to-date list of disk usage.e3 The rebuild uses the index file, and is quite fast.e   Jan-Erik Sderholm.m   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:28:33 -0500E- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o/ Subject: Re: Generating MMS files with Decset ?o3 Message-ID: <$uDOGygnLD5S@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  h In article <3caeff94$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>, yyyc186@illegaltospam.mindspring.com writes:/ > In <3CA0D002.20301@skynet.be>, on 03/26/2002  G >    at 08:46 PM, Christophe Evrard <christophe.evrard@skynet.be> said:s > L > MMS used to have something internally that could be used to generate these/ > files, but I haven't tried it in a long time.i  H    I have.  MMS/GENERATE to set up a build for a tool I downloaded.  The0    delivered build.com file was way out of date.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 11:37:54 +0200ha From: holitska_a@removehomo-togetvalide-mailhomo-ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)n: Subject: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?! Message-ID: <NydeZgTaIqMT@ludens>i   Hi!t  )   I have a question on Compaq TCP/IP SMTP (   configuration: how can I set a default   outgoing mail gateway?  %   I've searched the FAQ, the "Ask theH&   Wizard" and looked at TCPIP>'s help,    but the only thing I found was  -     TCPIP> SET CONF SMTP /GATE=ALTERNATE=hosta  (   but this is only used, when a delivery   failure occurs.r  &   I'm sure somebody here knows, how to   set this correctly.   &   (AlphaServer 2100, VMS7.3, TCPIP5.1)  $ God be with You all, thanks:  <Holi>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 13:31:54 +0200f9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?' Message-ID: <3CB17FAA.213A2B7F@aaa.com>e  4 Well, if your box *can* deliver the mail directly to6 the target host, why should it then use a smtp-gateway anyway ?  7 The smtp gateway is used if the mail can't be delivered06 directly. No problem. Just set it, and let smtp decide how to deliver your mails.  ; And don't think there have to be a "delivery failure", smtp 8 is smart enugh to not try to sent to a unreachable host.   Regards8 Jan-Erik Sdrholm. a   "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:  >  > Hi!C > + >   I have a question on Compaq TCP/IP SMTPt* >   configuration: how can I set a default >   outgoing mail gateway? > ' >   I've searched the FAQ, the "Ask thet( >   Wizard" and looked at TCPIP>'s help," >   but the only thing I found was > / >     TCPIP> SET CONF SMTP /GATE=ALTERNATE=hosth > * >   but this is only used, when a delivery >   failure occurs.t > ( >   I'm sure somebody here knows, how to >   set this correctly.h > ( >   (AlphaServer 2100, VMS7.3, TCPIP5.1) > & > God be with You all, thanks:  <Holi>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:27:54 -0400h1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>l> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?2 Message-ID: <3CB18CCA.1B49C676@firstdbasource.com>   "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:  >  > Hi!d > + >   I have a question on Compaq TCP/IP SMTP * >   configuration: how can I set a default >   outgoing mail gateway? >   H Do you need an alternate gateway?  The SMTP server will connect directlyH with the system to which the mail is being delivered as defined by an MXH record somewhere. If you cannot send mail directly (must go through your; corporate mail) then you must set up the alternate gateway.e  ; At one time, I used my ISP gateway from my home system likeq  / set config smtp /gate=alternate=xyz.<myisp>.coma  F A more detailed description on what you are trying to accomplish would be helpful.D      ' >   I've searched the FAQ, the "Ask the"( >   Wizard" and looked at TCPIP>'s help," >   but the only thing I found was > / >     TCPIP> SET CONF SMTP /GATE=ALTERNATE=hostd > * >   but this is only used, when a delivery >   failure occurs.n > ( >   I'm sure somebody here knows, how to >   set this correctly.S > ( >   (AlphaServer 2100, VMS7.3, TCPIP5.1) > & > God be with You all, thanks:  <Holi>   -- s Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163s7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comh Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)E 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:15:14 +0200* From: "Zoldric Caff" <zoldric@hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?/ Message-ID: <1018271715.452998@ftp.adept.co.za>   > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3CB18CCA.1B49C676@firstdbasource.com...! > "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:t > >  > > Hi!h > > - > >   I have a question on Compaq TCP/IP SMTPw, > >   configuration: how can I set a default > >   outgoing mail gateway? > >o >aJ > Do you need an alternate gateway?  The SMTP server will connect directlyJ > with the system to which the mail is being delivered as defined by an MXJ > record somewhere. If you cannot send mail directly (must go through your= > corporate mail) then you must set up the alternate gateway.a >m= > At one time, I used my ISP gateway from my home system like- >-1 > set config smtp /gate=alternate=xyz.<myisp>.comr > H > A more detailed description on what you are trying to accomplish would
 > be helpful.A >0 >0 >o) > >   I've searched the FAQ, the "Ask then* > >   Wizard" and looked at TCPIP>'s help,$ > >   but the only thing I found was > >y1 > >     TCPIP> SET CONF SMTP /GATE=ALTERNATE=hoste > >s, > >   but this is only used, when a delivery > >   failure occurs.g > >t* > >   I'm sure somebody here knows, how to > >   set this correctly.- > >-* > >   (AlphaServer 2100, VMS7.3, TCPIP5.1) > > ( > > God be with You all, thanks:  <Holi> >( > --
 > Regards, >j9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163.9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comc > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)a > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)h >    This might help.  6 Define the following logical TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS  4 Eg. Define /system /exec tcpip$smtp_altgate_always 1   Then type >> tcpip stop mail   >> tcpip start mailt  5 Definition of what TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS does....E  D Instructs the symbiont to send all mail that is destined for another  B system (nonlocal mail) to the alternate gateway. Zone check is not
 performed.  & This works on VMS7.3 TCPIP 5.1a eco 3.   Cheers   Conrad   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:42:59 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?' Message-ID: <3CB19E63.9F051339@aaa.com>f  4 Is this a performance option ? Or is there any other reason to set this logical ?5 I'v a system that sends about 5-10.000 mails/day, and18 always using the alt-gw, so this might be interesting...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.D   Zoldric Caff wrote:I >  >  > This might help. > 8 > Define the following logical TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS > 6 > Eg. Define /system /exec tcpip$smtp_altgate_always 1 >  > Then type >> tcpip stop mail >  > >> tcpip start mail  > 7 > Definition of what TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS does....e > F > Instructs the symbiont to send all mail that is destined for another > D > system (nonlocal mail) to the alternate gateway. Zone check is not > performed. > ( > This works on VMS7.3 TCPIP 5.1a eco 3. >  > Cheers >  > Conrad   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:04:11 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> > Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?2 Message-ID: <3CB1A35B.C7C086B9@firstdbasource.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:n > 6 > Is this a performance option ? Or is there any other > reason to set this logical ?7 > I'v a system that sends about 5-10.000 mails/day, and': > always using the alt-gw, so this might be interesting...    E I will have to do some testing WRT to the /options=RELAY which if thel@ system is exposed to the internet can be used for spam-relays.     Michael Austin.t   >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.v >  > Zoldric Caff wrote:i > >w > >f > > This might help. > >o: > > Define the following logical TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS > >t8 > > Eg. Define /system /exec tcpip$smtp_altgate_always 1 > >a  > > Then type >> tcpip stop mail > >  > > >> tcpip start mailn > >n9 > > Definition of what TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS does....a > >oH > > Instructs the symbiont to send all mail that is destined for another > >iF > > system (nonlocal mail) to the alternate gateway. Zone check is not > > performed. > > * > > This works on VMS7.3 TCPIP 5.1a eco 3. > >e
 > > Cheers > > 
 > > Conrad   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:48:13 +0200h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> > Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?' Message-ID: <3CB1ADAD.A27B04F4@aaa.com>h  8 What has the /RELAY option to do with the alt-gateway ??  	 Jan-Erik.    Michael Austin wrote:lG > I will have to do some testing WRT to the /options=RELAY which if the0@ > system is exposed to the internet can be used for spam-relays. >  > Michael Austin.I >o   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 08:07:40 -0700n) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)l> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204080707.6e77e69d@posting.google.com>g   holitska_a@?remove??homo-??to?get?valid?e-mail?homo-ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andr?) wrote in message news:<NydeZgTaIqMT@ludens>...c > Hi!t > + >   I have a question on Compaq TCP/IP SMTP * >   configuration: how can I set a default >   outgoing mail gateway? >   8 It might be best to explain what you want to do exactly.   3 things come to mind:  ; (1) You want a specific host to parse and change the return7H     address (ie: xyz@somehost.spamcorp.com becomes X.Z@spamcorp.com) andC     handle incoming mail, ie: mail sent to X.Z@spamcorp.com goes to K     xyz@somehost.spamcorp.com. This will require playing with MX nameserver      entries.  C (2) You want your TCPIP services box to look like a POP client, ie:i2     all outgoing mail goes to another SMTP server.  E (3) You have a firewall and that computer is the only one that allowsa#     SMTP to/from the outside world.e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 18:15:56 +0200 a From: holitska_a@removehomo-togetvalide-mailhomo-ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)l> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?! Message-ID: <fHRcgJ+3wCn8@ludens>    Hi!a  6   Thanx, $ DEF/SYS/EXEC TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS TRUE   worked just fine :]y  ;   Btw., what I really needed: at our univesity one specificI<   host handles all outgoing mail (due to mail-realy problems:   with some not-so-well configured nodes), so I can't send;   mail directly to hosts outside of our domain (connectionsl,   to outer-ip:25 are cutted in the routers).  7 Thanx again everyone, God be with You all, bye:  <Holi>@  
 Conrad wrote:n >  > This might help. > 8 > Define the following logical TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS > 6 > Eg. Define /system /exec tcpip$smtp_altgate_always 1 >  > Then type >> tcpip stop mail >  > >> tcpip start maile > 7 > Definition of what TCPIP$SMTP_ALTGATE_ALWAYS does....d > F > Instructs the symbiont to send all mail that is destined for another > D > system (nonlocal mail) to the alternate gateway. Zone check is not > performed. > ( > This works on VMS7.3 TCPIP 5.1a eco 3. >  > Cheers >  > Conrad >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:22:16 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> > Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?' Message-ID: <3CB1C3B8.415FA539@aaa.com>a  : Fairly normal setup anyware you need some security/control" over your smtp traffic, I'd say...   Jan-Erik Sderholm   "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:- >  > Hi!- > = >   Btw., what I really needed: at our univesity one specific.% >   host handles all outgoing mail...Q   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 19:23:36 +0200.a From: holitska_a@removehomo-togetvalide-mailhomo-ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)l> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?! Message-ID: <Lpa02s5VpQPX@ludens>a  c In article <3CB1C3B8.415FA539@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:n< > Fairly normal setup anyware you need some security/control$ > over your smtp traffic, I'd say... >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm  	   Agreed.   5   Especialy good if your entire domain is going to beR6   listed in a commonly used Relay Database, unless you/   disable mail relaying in the entire domain :]   -   Here we see the simpliest working solution.s  5   (The problem was, that we don't have enough people, 7   to set up every single unix/linux correctly, and manyl   'roots' just don't care :[ )  ! God be with You all, bye:  <Holi>e   > ! > "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:o >>   >> Hi! >>  > >>   Btw., what I really needed: at our univesity one specific& >>   host handles all outgoing mail...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:02:29 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>l> Subject: Re: How to set outgoing mail gateway in Compaq TCPIP?2 Message-ID: <3CB1DB35.392240C4@firstdbasource.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:A > : > What has the /RELAY option to do with the alt-gateway ??   My scenario/config:s   ISP - DSL - Router - VMSboxe               +----- PCr  H I have a POP client on the PC.   VMS does it's own SMTP oubound with theB alt-gw set to point to my ISP.  In order for it to work, I have anC "A-Record" DNS entry and an MX_record DNS entry using a dynamic DNS0G provider that points back to my system so that when I do use the alt-gw 4 it does not bounce because it thinks I am a spammer.  D The problem is that without /OPTION=RELAY the pop client cannot sendG email out bound.  I have tried various combinations of Good/Bad-ClientsAF in the config file, accept/reject hosts and networks, (if it is not in@ the accept it will not be sent any way... messages get bounced.)  F All of this to 1) make SMTP useable and 2) not become an open relay.  H So for now, SMTP has NORELAY and my POP client goes to my ISP, (using myH email address domain name which actually points back to an IP address in their net block.)d     >  > Jan-Erik.E >  > Michael Austin wrote:eI > > I will have to do some testing WRT to the /options=RELAY which if themB > > system is exposed to the internet can be used for spam-relays. > >  > > Michael Austin.q > >e   --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163h7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comx Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)d 704-236-4377 (Mobile)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:23:55 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxs& Message-ID: <3CB1B60B.5020900@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:07:26 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:d >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>6 >>>On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:46:35 +0100, Andrew Harrison6 >>><andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote: >>>o >>>  >  >>>>I >>>Yawn.  Can't find anything to denigrate in your adversaries so ya juste >>>make things up, eh? >>>t >>>n >>D >>Again don't accuse me of making things up remember your backgroundA >>remember that as a fully payed up member of the Choir (you were2> >>actually on a salary) you have been personnaly or indirectlyE >>responsible for the disinformation and general BS that has been the4@ >>hallmark of the whole AlphaGate, WiltFireGate, CompactionGate,C >>GalaxyGate, ClusterGate and all the other lesser scams going backe< >>to the Alpha performance scam Phase V DECNET and the 9000. >>; >>As I said 10 years of shafting is a pretty amazing record ? >>in a way its a backhanded tribute to OpenVMS that people have," >>been prepared to put up with it. >> >> > > > Yeah, Andrew, I accuse you of making things up.  Find me theD > references that prove your accusations in the paragraph above, and7 > others concerning my background, or shut the hell up.o > H > Remember, if you want to discredit someone, it is up to you to provideF > the evidence.  This vague "remember your background" just doesn't do > it.  c > E > I DO remember my background and it is, by and large, my challengingiF > you on technical FUD & BS about VMS & VMSclusters that you spout offD > in here.  My technical experience with VMS and VMSclusters againstH > your FUD will win every time.  And you have yet to address any of yourH > analysis problems that I have raised on these subjects - which usually? > consists of finding ONE (or a smallish group < 10) person whovF > complains in very vague terms about some issue, and you harp on thatG > as if it's the rule rather than the exception.  I have challenged youtG > time and again to provide more evidence than this small, self-skewing: > data set, but you never have.  >       8 Check deja, you will find that you didn't win any of the6 arguments you claim to have done. In fact you ended up8 getting corrected by Bill a couple of times and the rest9 of the time you appear to think that the person who posts   the last ad-hominem attack wins.  8 As I said earlier on your posting style is very like the lamented Christof keep it up.,     Regardse Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:17:05 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxk$ Message-ID: <3CB1B471.20503@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:59:39 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyA5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:  >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>6 >>>On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:42:54 +0100, Andrew Harrison6 >>><andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote: >>>t >>>o >>>l >>>>jlsue wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>J >>>>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:57:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy8 >>>>><andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>>>>b >>>>>. > ; >>>>Who do you work for again ?? Ohh I forgot from the higho= >>>>moral tone you have just tried to assume I thought it wasT' >>>>some other company and not ChomPaq.f >>>>? >>>>If you want rude just contemplate what your customers thinksC >>>>about you. Your memory is short if you have forgotten Alphacidei> >>>>Compaction and all the other things that have been done to >>>>shaft your customers.n >>>>C >>>>And there is no wiggling out of this, you are responsible alonge= >>>>with the rest of the Choir to a greater or lesser degree.r >>>>D >>>>Who amongst the Choir trumpeted the 25 year life span commitmentC >>>>made by Digital for Alpha when the whole project was hemoraging A >>>>money at a rate the vastly accelerated the demise of Digital.w >>>> >>>>[major snippage...]n >>>> >>>>F >>>Whew!  Andrew you're really on a roll.  I've never seen so many non >>>sequitors in one note.i >>>  >>>  >>2 >>Really care to illustrate this with examples ??? >>5 >>Ohh I thought not that would expose you to ridicule % >>allong with your fellow Choristers.T >> >> > A > Examples of what, exactly?  Can you pose a coherent question org+ > request so that I can actually answer it?e >     ; Ok it was a coeherant question and one that all the readers 6 of this newsgroup understood perfectly just as you did+ but let me reprase it for you specifically.   3 Did you consistently and systematically missled thei< inhabitants of this newsgroup about the status and future of the Alpha processor ?e  ? Did you consistently and systematically missled the inhabitantsa6 of this newsgroup about the market position of Alpha ?  ? Did you consistently and systematically missled the inhabitants ; of this newsgroup about the performance of Alpha systems inc1 particular I refer to the GS320 performance hype.o  9 Did you consistently and systematically flame posters who, expressed a counter view ?  @ Do you now have any missgivings having discovered belatedly that5 the people you flamed were right and you were wrong ?  		    D > Your entire rant is chock full of non sequitors, so it serves as a > fine example in itself.  > D > Now, if you want examples that prove my previous points about yourE > hypocrisy in that you began the name calling in this thread... justiF > let me know and I'll exract the entire thing and send it to ya.  I'mF > not about to re-post it here:  It's entirely too long and the drivel' > was bad enough the first time around.c >     = As I said earlier it ill behoves anyone from Compaq to accuse ? anyone of hypocracy. If you had an ounce of concience you wouldh+ realise this and quit while you are behind.a  > Just to illustrate this I have just met with the CIO of one of? your customers, he is consolidating all his existing datacentersA applications that currently run on Alpha (OpenVMS and Tru64) onton/ either IBM or Sun, he hasn't decided which yet.o   Reasons.  = Nothing wrong with the platform but as a long term Alpha user,; he has decided to move from Alpha to something else becauseo8 the Alphacide left him with a bad taste in his mouth and= looking exposed (he chose Alpha origionally) and the takeover = of Compaq by HP was the final nail in the coffin. He will nots< be buying any more Alpha servers or Compaq x86 boxes either.  < It was activities like the ones indulged in by you and other; members of the choir that put him in the possition he is in 9 now ironically he remarked that he didn't realise that 25m years could slip by so quickly.e  9 People like you who would like to pretend that no one wasP9 missled either deliberately or though lack of scrutiny of 8 the information they were psssing on, a bit more humilty< on your part might make some of your soon to be ex customers re-consider.     Regards    Andrew Harrison4   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:42:03 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>SO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxo, Message-ID: <3CB1C856.25D4D33B@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:5 > Did you consistently and systematically missled then> > inhabitants of this newsgroup about the status and future of > the Alpha processor ?f   Andrew, Andrew, Andrew....  N Compaq seems to be very good at brainwashing its employees. If an employee hasM been convinced by his management that Alpha had a strong long term commitmentaC with EV7 and EV8 already in the works, than said employee would not O consciously be misleading customers when stating that Alpha had a solid future.?  L Where the real lies occured is when Compaq's upper management would tell theN lower ranks that Alpha was secure and was there to stay when they knew that it was going away.k  K This is why I have to take all the assurances from the Huff's and Fred,s oftN this newsgroup with a grain of salt because while they may have been given allJ the right indications that VMS was safe, I do not trust the folks who gave them those indications.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:06:24 +0100bT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxT& Message-ID: <3CB1CE10.8080409@sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:-  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> >> >> Paul Sture wrote: >> >>> Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>>c >>>> We did? >>>> >>>gI >>> Nah, didn't miss it a bit. I do recall certain people noting that he cJ >>> wasn't around to bash when they felt in a bad mood about something :-) >>>t >> >>? >> Or put another way I wasn't here to challenge some of the BS . >> that some people like to pass off as facts. >>I > In terms of challenging BS, I don't see that you have contributed much W > more than unwanted noise.h >  > K > Where are your facts? Evidence? URLs will often do. Inquiring minds wish   > to know... >      Sigh   Do I have to mention.   6 My stance on Alphas chances of survival, proved right.$ My stance on Alphas market position:/       ISV enthusiasm for OpenVMS, proved right.x0       ISV enthusiasm for Galaxies, proved right.'       Impact of Galaxies, proved right.s" My stance on WildFire performance:8       My claim that it would require OPS in a box to get:       half decent performance, proved right by Compaqs own2       benchmark results and the number of returns.  6 There are numerous other examples as you know well and8 in each of these cases members of the choir claimed that7 I was the person providing the BS, we all know that the  opposite was the case.  6 One memorable example was a choir member claiming that7 Compaq would not need to use OPS in a box to get decent ? OLTP performance from WildFire, the claimant being unaware thatt= Compaqs own TPC results used exactly this trick. I was calledk9 a FUDSTER which I now take as a compliment. In this groupi: anything that a choir member calls FUD almost always turns out to be the truth.     Regards    Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 05:59:27 -04000+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>t  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX1 Message-ID: <3CB131BF.39D7C910@trailing-edge.com>-   Eric Smith wrote:7 > H > Trying to use special-purpose hardware to compete with general purposeJ > CPUs is like trying to run in front of a steamroller.  You might be ableF > to do it for a short while, but you're going to get tired before the> > steamroller does.  This is why LISP machines were ultimately > unsuccessful.   G But to most embedded-type folks a LISP machine is not a special-purposem( machine, it's a general-purpose machine.  B When I think "special-purpose hardware", I think of something moreC along the lines of a ECL backprojector for a CAT scanner or a radara? processing DSP.  These have been around since at least the lateo? 70's with cycle times as short as 1ns, and only in the past few > years have general-purpose CPU's become effective at the jobs.  9 These are rather interesting tasks, BTW, in that they are36 hard-real-time computationally-intensive applications.   Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:21:36 +0100-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <mtc3buonga19ohqv774djn8acp6ll2f64t@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 14:45:22 +0200, Jan C. Vorbrggenm! <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:n  - >> And a TOPS-10 SMP system could handle 500.I >MM >Our dual KL-10 definitely couldn't - it started to break at around thirty or  >so.  D I'd suggest you had an unusual workload  or else insufficient memoryE or perhaps disk i/o bottleneck. Or perhaps somebody turned your cacheeE off? Don't laugh. I really did know of a site which ran for some timeo# with the cache disabled by mistake!.  ? TOPS-10 and (especially) TOPS-20 really did benefit from plentyrF memory. If you had less than 1 Megaword (nearly 5MB) under TOPS-20 theF system tended to struggle early under memory constraints. TOPS-10, the- minimum I'd put, at about 512K (36 bit words)l  E >> The difference in users serviced is due to the philosophies of the_A >> OS.  VMS was not a timesharing OS.  Eventually, it learned butt >> it took a very long time. >yI >Come on, that's just nonsense. It was as time-sharing capable as TOPS-10eK >very early on. The batch and print system initially left some things to be M >desired, and DSC was crap, but the base system was quite useable from day 1. ? >Certainly more useable than some Unix variants a decade later.c  D Until you copied files from the TOPS-20 system to VMS and discovered& it truncated everything to 8(?) chars.   >	Jan    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:25:51 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <led3buo93pg3bf4djqadj458vc1t2vuf4g@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 12:45:32 +0200, Jan C. Vorbrggen-! <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:   B >> Most of the  tens or twenties sold had a user population in theH >> thousands or tens of thousands. Most (2020 excepted) could handle 100B >> or more interactive users even in 1980. According to a 1982 NDAB >> presentation the Jupiter next generation DEC-20 was expected toB >> support up to 1000 users and was, in many ways according to theC >> presentation, a 72 bit machine .A typical VAX/VMS system of 1980 G >> supported a much smaller user population and had trouble handling 20r	 >> users.a >iI >That's not my recollection. In about 1981, we had a dual-processor KL-10iJ >and a 780. Very soon, almost everybody in the 150-odd user population wasF >on the VAX. Part of the reason was that the KL-10 was supporting one L >particular application (measuring and analysing bubble and streamer chamberL >images) that severely taxed it. But the 780 certainly had no trouble at all >supporting more than 20 users.   @ The one place the VAX 11/780 came close to KL-10 performance wasF floating point. If this app was almost entirely floating point I could? see a problem. Most of our research users wrote or used integern routines for speed.r   >	Jan    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:28:56 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <jmd3buga1fogb7qvl2otd3ogucgr9gnq4k@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 14:46:33 +0200, Jan C. Vorbrggen ! <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:a  G >> Nope.  Because a customer had to buy five VAX/VMS systems to replacetC >> the computing resources of a -20.  It was _how much work_ a userD@ >> could get done.  VMS was not a clean new OS.  It's philosophyC >> was deeply rooted in the RSX thinking.  Timesharing was anathemad >> to the philosophy.i >h0 >You clearly are living in a different universe.  A Hey, I was tasked to perform benchmarks. My recollection is that,tB floating point excepted, a fully equipped KL-10 did require around? five 780s to replace it. Or perhaps one 86xx a few years later.    >	Janb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:39:42 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <7ce3bucs80vdd4ms1nncvd9sopjukuaemc@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:56:26 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:    H >You want me to carry a cross here?  I already said I was wrong, and I'mK >sorry.  This conversation wasn't between a vendor and a customer, however,u  " I'm happy with your clarification.  M >one of the guys in the conversation has decided that it is, and trumped me -UK >so it changes the nature of what I would *ever* again say to him - becauseoI >as a customer - (if you had read the other various notes you might know)-H >I'll pretty much walk over coals to keep him happy - at least for those >things I *can* control. >e >o >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:50:47 +0100R% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <7te3buc2bqns7evs5ofvcgjm7foq16kbva@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:03:44 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   > M >I am at fault for not simply ignoring a troll message designed to do exactlyr >this type of flame.  Bad me.n  A You think I'm trolling. I think that making sufficicient noise isi1 what's kept VMS from being cancelled once before.j  F I have information that I trust that a summary of 'relevant' issues inC comp.os.vms *is* provided from time to time to Capellas etc. Forgetp what they claim in public.   >wJ >I'm not a big fan of SW patents, I think the patent and copyright systemsE >need to be dragged out of the 18th century.  But companies find themlK >required and useful, and I have 2 US patents issued so far.  But I find itsK >hard to brag when I know someone who just had > 30 issue in the space of ae
 >year for HW.E >T >d >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:56:01 +0100>% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <efe3buof4haeoij2c30tut42843nr5enam@4ax.com>  @ On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 01:03:00 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU. ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:    N >Indeed.  Actually, if I remember the sequence of events - and maybe I don't -O >Fred called Mark - who is pretty darned vocal about never being a VMS customermK >ever in his life, and who would pretty clearly like VMS to die so that VMSgN >customers can be as unhappy about that as he is about the cancellation of theH >36-bit line - a  moron and Alan Grieg, who agreed with Mark and _is_ a J >customer (despite having been repeatedly screwed by DEC) decided that theO >insult applied to him (since it applied to anyone who shared Mark's opinions).   C Actually I was the one who referred to the Bell memo as a "suicide"pF note. I think I used the quotes in the original. Meant to if I didn't.  O >Fred's apology for confusing the person with the content comes across somewhatnL >ironically given that Alan signed on for the insult because of the content. >:M >Crossposting between alt.sys.pdp10 and comp.os.vms generally produces a goodu >deal more heat than light.e >  >-- Alan >h > P >===============================================================================1 > Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU N > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056N > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210P >===============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:50:33 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX8 Message-ID: <49i3buc473o1hgkhnv75hqrl462h04p2pc@4ax.com>  1 On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:59:28 -0800, "Jack Peacock"1 <peacock@simconv.com> wrote:  < >"Charlie Root" <root@acer.reistad.priv.no> wrote in message0 >news:_rqr8.51$Vv5.2594@nreader1.kpnqwest.net...I >> At my college the DEC2065 tended to get slow at round 150 users, wherevE >> around 100 would be active at any one time. It only got terminally I >> bad at two occations; both under severe stress from a lot of differentt >> work. >>M >I was one of the systems programmers for a well-known corporation which usedoH >a 2040 in their accounting office.  Far from hundreds of users, we wereK >lucky to sustain more than 8 COBOL developers simultaneously (plus myself,P  ? A 2040 was bottom-of-range KL-10. Very limited processor cache,r@ probably old style core memory. Likely 256K words memory.  KL-10@ serial 2172, which I used to look after, began as a 2040 and wasD upgraded in stages to a 2060 with some of the 2065 mods. Memory went@ from 256K words to 2MW. Initially it supported about 30-50 usersA reasonably. By the end the same KL processor was handling 100-150h  L >though I usually stuck to assembly language).  On the other hand, overnightK >batch would outrun the 370/138 sitting next to the 2040.  For that matter,lM >the 2040 wuld still outdo the 370 during the day as well.  Those programmersWJ >willing to switch enjoyed the TOPS vs. VM environment, though all came toL >nought as the company made a non-technical decision to be an IBM only shop.M >A year later the 2040 was sold to someplace in California.  And I eventuallywK >wound up at another company on a 11/34, followed by an 11/780.  Out of alloI >those systems, the one I most liked to work on was...my own IMSAI with aeK >Z-80 running CP/M (a well-known RT-11 near clone).  It supported a maximumiI >of one user (sometimes none when smoke came out the back), as far as i'm + >concerned the ideal developer environment.d >sM >I have to agree with Fred about 10/20 nostalgia.  They were good machines intF >their day but time and selective memory have served to gloss over theJ >shortcomings.  I can't imagine why anyone would prefer a 10 or 20 over anM >Alpha, or even a VAX (though anyone who ever used a MVax I could make a goodt >case for a 2020). >    Jack PeacockA >a >s   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 06:30:56 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Re: Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For Alpha= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204080530.2b57c338@posting.google.com>e   "Robert Santos" <icemanr@zoominternet.net> wrote in message news:<2bce2694b6b9cdd51979cacf2afcc75a.42059@mygate.mailgate.org>...G > I was told Microsoft was going to release a alpha ver of windows 2000oH > but decided not too but they had a version of win 2000 Beta 3 floatingB > around whenb they were.Does any one know where i can get a copy.  % if you find one, let me know also ...'   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:48:37 -0400> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>D Subject: RE: Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For AlphaM Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C37C2@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   B One might look at http://www.alphant.com for some info on Win 2000" RC1, and a possible way to get it.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadwayd Albany, NY  12204s USA  518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.coml  ) I post personal opinion only, and all thef* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).r+ One should also take note of the Electronic ) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whicho+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anyq( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]& > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 9:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeF > Subject: Re: Im looking for Beta 3 Version of windows 2000 For Alpha >  > > > "Robert Santos" <icemanr@zoominternet.net> wrote in message F > news:<2bce2694b6b9cdd51979cacf2afcc75a.42059@mygate.mailgate.org>...= > > I was told Microsoft was going to release a alpha ver of i > windows 2000@ > > but decided not too but they had a version of win 2000 Beta  > 3 floatingD > > around whenb they were.Does any one know where i can get a copy. > ' > if you find one, let me know also ...  >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 08:59:38 -0500s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e# Subject: Re: Is AMD doing an Intel? 3 Message-ID: <EUBkCDL3LOpa@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  k In article <iThr8.1930$fL6.39119@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:s > N > Ultimately, any register used has to be saved on Alpha.  This may or may notM > be true on IA64, depending on the final design.  You can't really limit thelI > C complier, you just have to rely on the fact that it will save/restoreoL > registers.  But few drivers are in C, and only one that I know of entirely > in C.l  >    In traditional Intel architectures the calling standard hasF    specified that the calling routine saves any registers it needs and"    restores them after the return.  B    On both VAX and Alpha the architectures specify that the calledF    routine saves any registers is may modify and restore them prior to
    return.  F    Although the VAX actually provides the register save and restore inG    the CALLx/RET instructions, both are valid techniques and both couldl.    be used on VAX, Alpha, or Intel processors.  H    Which is to be used on iVMS?  Sticking with the VAX and Alpha aproachA    might make porting easier, but may cause headaches other ways.e  E    I've seen other decisions which would make the Intel approach seemrF    more consistent (but I can't remember which were public, so I won't    name them).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:21:56 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>8 Subject: London OpenVMS Tech Update 11th/12th April BOF?) Message-ID: <3CB16F44.F432A7EA@127.0.0.1>>  C Anyone here attending this event interested in a BOF of comp.os.vmsg readers?  - How about Thursday at 6.00pm in the bar area?e  2 I understand there are still some places available  ! http://www.compaq-conference.com/r  6 The location is a bit vague of the Marriot, but go to D http://www.multimap.co.uk/ and put NW3 3ST as the postcode and looks* like Swiss Cottage underground is nearest. --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comG   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:47:45 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>t< Subject: Re: London OpenVMS Tech Update 11th/12th April BOF?1 Message-ID: <3CB17551.CAA3C405@BlueBubble.UK.Com>e   Nic Clews wrote:  E > Anyone here attending this event interested in a BOF of comp.os.vmsn
 > readers?  D Afraid I won't be able to attend (even though I'd registered).  WhenE the contracting market is as poor as it presently is, the prospect ofx< selling my body on Thursday and Friday is too good to miss !  C Would have been nice to meet up with all the other comp.os.vms'ans.   	 Roy Omondg Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:47:54 GMTh' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>r Subject: Motif startup problem.r$ Message-ID: <3cb1bba6$1@zfree.co.nz>  L Hardware: white box Alpha 3000, 256 MB memory and an S3 Trio/32/Trio64 video adapter.1 Software: AXP/VMS 7.3, Motif and DECnet phase IV.a  F As soon as Motif is started the the display turns black and that's it.I The windows server (SYS$MANAGER:DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG) looks like this:g  2  8-APR-2002 13:45:26.4 Hello, this is the X serverE This is the DECwindows X11 display server for OpenVMS AXP V7.1-010317u% 		compiled on Mar 17 2001 at 09:10:09w Main address = 000386A0 * Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_Xie,+ extension name: Xie, entry address 002E6780n0 Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_DEC_XTRAP,1 extension name: DEC-XTRAP, entry address 003B8548'6 Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_Multi_Buffering,7 extension name: Multi-Buffering, entry address 003FA0A0e2 DECW$TRANSPORT_COMMON image base address: 7C7300002 DECW$TRANSPORT_DECNET image base address: 0043E000: %DECW-I-ATTACHED, transport DECNET attached to its network1 DECW$TRANSPORT_LOCAL image base address: 0059E000C1 DECWINDOWS DigitalEquipmentCorp. AXP, Release 7.1h5 Shareable Image DDX GQ, InitOutput loaded at 005E1160-  ( s3vmsScreenInit: Init S3 screen number 0$ vgaMapScreen: Call vmsInitDeviceData! vgaMapScreen: Opening device GQA01! vgaMapScreen: Controller Number 0i vgaMapScreen: DVI info - :     Width = 1024, Height = 768,     Video PFN = 41C0000, Video Pagelets 2048%     CSR PFN 42C0000, CSR pagelets 128      Planes 8G   Swizzle Shift 5, Swizzle Length 3, Swizzle Short Mask 8, Long Mask 18o$ VGAVMS_MapScreen: CSRs are at 800000K VGAVMS_MapScreen: VRAM C00000:2C00000, PFN ^x41C0000, pages 65536, onscreenu C00000  cputype = 5 (2 = EV4, 5 = EV5)e/ s3vmsScreenInit: - Set the Default Visual Classe& s3vmsScreenInit: - Call cfbInitVisuals+ s3vmsScreenInit: - mask 0x80 bits-per-rgb 8s' s3vmsScreenInit: - Visuals Information:c   - Root depth        = 8    - Number of depths  = 2P   - Number of visuals = 6m   - Default Visual    = 209 s3vmsScreenInit: Actual memory size reported is: 0x100000m8 s3vmsScreenInit: Set screen geometry to match user setup8 s3vmsScreenInit: Display Mode Index 7, Refresh Rate 72Hz9 s3vmsScreenInit: Screen X 1024, Screen Y 768, density 100i$ s3vmsScreenInit: - Call miScreenInit0 s3vmsScreenInit: Create screen private structureE s3vmsScreenInit: Mapping Enhanced Registers (font buffer VGA address)e@ s3vmsScreenInit: 2097152 bytes of enhanced register space mapped$                  mapped at 0x2C00000$                  PFN is at 0x4280A009 s3vmsScreenInit: No DENSE space, using SPARSE memory onlyr9 s3vmsScreenInit: Chip type S3 Trio64, Rev: 0x54, PNP == 1 ' s3vmsScreenInit: M Parameter value is 2t) s3vmsScreenInit: N Parameter value is 255n& s3vmsScreenInit: FIFO checking ENABLED; s3vmsScreenInit: Memory Layout (from start of FB in bytes): (  - memory total               0x00100000.  - number of offscreen lines  0x000000BF (191)(  - offscreen starts at        0x000C0000(  - offscreen ends at          0x000EFC00(  - fonts cache starts at      0x000EFC00(  - fonts cache ends at        0x000FFC00(  - cursor bits are at         0x000FFC00- s3vmsScreenInit: - Init the common VGA screene2 VGAVMS_InitScreenCommon: Init the Screen structure5 s3vmsScreenInit: Installing S3-specific optimizations # s3vmsScreenInit: Using EV5 routiness s3vmsScreenInit: Init hardware CR55 = 0 CR56 = 0	 SR18 = 40 
 DAC Mask = FFe> s3HWInit: linear addr window = 1 (0=64kb, 1=1mb, 2=2mb, 3=4mb  s3HWInit: Set MMIO mode 1 Initial M Parameter = 6, Setting M Parameter to 224 Initial N Parameter = 15, Setting N Parameter to 255  End of init, turn screen back on@ s3vmsScreenInit: Cursor Setup: shape and color is done by server0 s3vmsScreenInit: Cursor is being moved by server* s3vmsScreenInit: Call cfbCreateDefColormap) s3vmsScreenInit: - Init the backing storeg7 VGAVMS_SetupConsole: Console remove value (seconds) 300d* VGAVMS_SetupConsole: Issue AUTO_OPDOWN QIO9 VGAVMS_SetupConsole: Setup the console suspend routine... , s3vmsScreenInit: Exit from init with successI DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_CURSOR32] removed from font path, fontse unavailable.I DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_CURSOR16] removed from font path, fonts	 unavailable.T DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_100DPI] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.S DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_75DPI] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.lT DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_COMMON] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.T DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_SPEEDO] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.S DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_TYPE1] removed from font path, fonts unavailable._0  8-APR-2002 13:45:36.4 Calling the dispatcher...H  8-APR-2002 13:45:36.8 CDE$USER_DEFAULTS:[CONFIG.XFONTS.C.75DPI] removed" from font path, fonts unavailable.I  8-APR-2002 13:45:36.9 CDE$USER_DEFAULTS:[CONFIG.XFONTS.C.100DPI] removeds" from font path, fonts unavailable.L  8-APR-2002 13:45:36.9 CDE$USER_DEFAULTS:[CONFIG.XFONTS.C] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.   P.S. I have no control over the url         http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:20:39 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t# Subject: Re: Motif startup problem.m3 Message-ID: <bxjs8.2001$fL6.47256@news.cpqcorp.net>:  B The log looks fine.  Are you sure you aren't in screen saver mode?    7 Hans Vlems wrote in message <3cb1bba6$1@zfree.co.nz>...  >nG >Hardware: white box Alpha 3000, 256 MB memory and an S3 Trio/32/Trio64o videow	 >adapter.'2 >Software: AXP/VMS 7.3, Motif and DECnet phase IV. > G >As soon as Motif is started the the display turns black and that's it.sJ >The windows server (SYS$MANAGER:DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG) looks like this: >-3 > 8-APR-2002 13:45:26.4 Hello, this is the X servernF >This is the DECwindows X11 display server for OpenVMS AXP V7.1-010317% > compiled on Mar 17 2001 at 09:10:09o >Main address = 000386A0+ >Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_Xie,4, >extension name: Xie, entry address 002E67801 >Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_DEC_XTRAP,72 >extension name: DEC-XTRAP, entry address 003B85487 >Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_Multi_Buffering,g8 >extension name: Multi-Buffering, entry address 003FA0A03 >DECW$TRANSPORT_COMMON image base address: 7C730000r3 >DECW$TRANSPORT_DECNET image base address: 0043E000l; >%DECW-I-ATTACHED, transport DECNET attached to its network 2 >DECW$TRANSPORT_LOCAL image base address: 0059E0002 >DECWINDOWS DigitalEquipmentCorp. AXP, Release 7.16 >Shareable Image DDX GQ, InitOutput loaded at 005E1160 >p) >s3vmsScreenInit: Init S3 screen number 0i% >vgaMapScreen: Call vmsInitDeviceDatan" >vgaMapScreen: Opening device GQA0" >vgaMapScreen: Controller Number 0 >vgaMapScreen: DVI info -p >    Width = 1024, Height = 768s- >    Video PFN = 41C0000, Video Pagelets 2048u& >    CSR PFN 42C0000, CSR pagelets 128
 >    Planes 8tH >  Swizzle Shift 5, Swizzle Length 3, Swizzle Short Mask 8, Long Mask 18% >VGAVMS_MapScreen: CSRs are at 800000 L >VGAVMS_MapScreen: VRAM C00000:2C00000, PFN ^x41C0000, pages 65536, onscreen >C00000n  > cputype = 5 (2 = EV4, 5 = EV5)0 >s3vmsScreenInit: - Set the Default Visual Class' >s3vmsScreenInit: - Call cfbInitVisualsT, >s3vmsScreenInit: - mask 0x80 bits-per-rgb 8( >s3vmsScreenInit: - Visuals Information: >  - Root depth        = 8 >  - Number of depths  = 2 >  - Number of visuals = 6 >  - Default Visual    = 20r: >s3vmsScreenInit: Actual memory size reported is: 0x1000009 >s3vmsScreenInit: Set screen geometry to match user setup 9 >s3vmsScreenInit: Display Mode Index 7, Refresh Rate 72Hze: >s3vmsScreenInit: Screen X 1024, Screen Y 768, density 100% >s3vmsScreenInit: - Call miScreenInitn1 >s3vmsScreenInit: Create screen private structure F >s3vmsScreenInit: Mapping Enhanced Registers (font buffer VGA address)A >s3vmsScreenInit: 2097152 bytes of enhanced register space mapped % >                 mapped at 0x2C00000q% >                 PFN is at 0x4280A00d: >s3vmsScreenInit: No DENSE space, using SPARSE memory only: >s3vmsScreenInit: Chip type S3 Trio64, Rev: 0x54, PNP == 1( >s3vmsScreenInit: M Parameter value is 2* >s3vmsScreenInit: N Parameter value is 255' >s3vmsScreenInit: FIFO checking ENABLEDo< >s3vmsScreenInit: Memory Layout (from start of FB in bytes):) > - memory total               0x00100000=/ > - number of offscreen lines  0x000000BF (191)-) > - offscreen starts at        0x000C0000m) > - offscreen ends at          0x000EFC00R) > - fonts cache starts at      0x000EFC00o) > - fonts cache ends at        0x000FFC00D) > - cursor bits are at         0x000FFC00=. >s3vmsScreenInit: - Init the common VGA screen3 >VGAVMS_InitScreenCommon: Init the Screen structure,6 >s3vmsScreenInit: Installing S3-specific optimizations$ >s3vmsScreenInit: Using EV5 routines >s3vmsScreenInit: Init hardwareo	 >CR55 = 0r	 >CR56 = 0@
 >SR18 = 40 >DAC Mask = FF> >s3HWInit: linear addr window = 1 (0=64kb, 1=1mb, 2=2mb, 3=4mb >s3HWInit: Set MMIO mode2 >Initial M Parameter = 6, Setting M Parameter to 25 >Initial N Parameter = 15, Setting N Parameter to 255t! >End of init, turn screen back onuA >s3vmsScreenInit: Cursor Setup: shape and color is done by server.1 >s3vmsScreenInit: Cursor is being moved by serverb+ >s3vmsScreenInit: Call cfbCreateDefColormapn* >s3vmsScreenInit: - Init the backing store8 >VGAVMS_SetupConsole: Console remove value (seconds) 300+ >VGAVMS_SetupConsole: Issue AUTO_OPDOWN QIOd: >VGAVMS_SetupConsole: Setup the console suspend routine...- >s3vmsScreenInit: Exit from init with success0J >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_CURSOR32] removed from font path, fonts
 >unavailable.yJ >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_CURSOR16] removed from font path, fonts
 >unavailable.0H >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_100DPI] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.G >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_75DPI] removed from font path, fontst unavailable.H >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_COMMON] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.H >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_SPEEDO] removed from font path, fonts unavailable.G >DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_TYPE1] removed from font path, fontsw unavailable.1 > 8-APR-2002 13:45:36.4 Calling the dispatcher... I > 8-APR-2002 13:45:36.8 CDE$USER_DEFAULTS:[CONFIG.XFONTS.C.75DPI] removedi# >from font path, fonts unavailable. J > 8-APR-2002 13:45:36.9 CDE$USER_DEFAULTS:[CONFIG.XFONTS.C.100DPI] removed# >from font path, fonts unavailable. H > 8-APR-2002 13:45:36.9 CDE$USER_DEFAULTS:[CONFIG.XFONTS.C] removed from font >path, fonts unavailable.S >w >P.S.  >I have no control over the urlR >1 >a >l >) >http://www.zfree.co.nzi >o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:53:21 +02007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> 7 Subject: RE: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes running O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6E21@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>t   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: David Waine [mailto:davidwaine@myopal.net]" > Sent: dinsdag 2 april 2002 21:04 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come5 > Subject: Newbie trying to get 2 Alpha boxes runnings >  > = > As an Easter Holiday project I'm trying to get 2 old Alpha   > Stations working..: > I have a load of rather disjointed questions to ask, if  > someone could fill4 > in some of the answers, that would be very useful. >  > AS255-233 (With VMS on dka0)@ > -  I've managed to get SRM updated to the latest version (V7)  > using the7 > process summarised below..= > -  Although SRM is set to load VMS from a cold start, I've w > managed to stop ? > this action with a simple ^C.  (If I let it boot, it does so g > with a few0 > error messages, but nothing that seems fatal).? > -  Usernames and passwords have long gone.  Is there any way -
 > to get over H > this problem so that I can log in given that I can break into the boot
 > process?  S Yes, it's possible and you can find the how-to in the openVMS FAQ under the subject 4 "I have forgotten the systempassword what can I do?"; http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#MGMT5a  @ > -  The other box I'm trying to resurrect is a AS200, it has a  > very good user> > guide on the Compaq web site.  I can't find one for the 255  > and thereforedH > I'm reduced to using the information on the sticky label on top of the? > CD-ROM to try and figure out now the motherboard is set.  Is o > there a user > guide for the 255?   No, it's too old.   > > - The objective is to get VMS running again in some form so  > that I can teach; > myself the operating system (summer holiday project, all e > being well).  CouldaH > anyone recommend a book that might form a good self-teaching guide?  I< > realise that this may not be a great career enhancer, but  > there we go...: > - I've seen several web sites promoting forms of free /  > nearly free / open> > VMS.  Do any of these work?  What I mean is, given that I'd  > like to learn0= > VMS basics, are they stable / complete / correct enough to e > make it worthg > trying them?  ^ The freeVMS project has very little to do with real VMS. It's only looks like VMS and runs on  ix86 platforms.e  ] OpenVMS is the only true VMS as OSF/1 is the only true UNIX ;) Open and free is not the same.a  ? > - I've seen one web site promoting the idea of Compaq making a > VMS availableyG > FOC for non-commercial users.  Does anyone know if this got anywhere?   D It is or was a project of DECUS. It's called hobby program OpenVMS. M You need to a member of DECUS or a compaq user group, to get the license and n  the hobbiest installations CD's.    > > - I know it sounds boring, but I'd actually be happy to buy 
 > the OS fromd@ > Compaq (subject to status, you realise).  Does anyone know if  > this is stilli > possible?  If so, how?  o It's possible, just pickup the phone and call compaq. And ask for the PAK's and installation media for OpenVMS.fP For product activation keys you need to tell what kind of alpha you need it for.    a" > AS 200 4/100 (with Unix on dka0)> > -  This box is running Digital Unix, which I understand was  > called OSF/1 and' > later became Tru64.  Is that correct?e  : It's correct it changed with a certain version from name.   7 > -  I can make this box boot using BOOT -FL 0,A0 DKA0.i= > -  User names and passwords long gone, but can I find some   > way of booting? > the OS and getting root permissions to set up an account and n > go from there?  J Yes, boot to single user mode and you can change the the password of root.O If you have root access you have controle backup over the rest of the accounts.V  ; > -  Without the -fl 0,A0 switch when BOOTing, the process s > hangs.  Are theres> > any other switches that work?  I guess I'm looking for some  > way to get the1 > OS up without the need for username/password...l  H You can change the bootparam at the >>> boot level just do a help there.T Or a "show boot*" the early alpha have a limited instruction set on the SRM console,J so be prepared to make some learning hours on that the SRM console level.   ; > - I have an old version of SRM (V4.37) and would like to a > update to V7 which> > I understand was the last version issued.  I've been to the  > Compaq web site,5 > downloaded the .exe file and also a utility called r > "mkdisk.exe".  After< > running the utility, I've attempted to run using BOOT -FL N > 0,A0 DVA0 (with the FDD loaded with the disk produced by the utility).  The K > box seems to reset and hang.  Any ideas why this is?  Strangely the same sW > process works  fine for the 255 box. (I wonder if the same binary should work on bothr > boxes)...   - No, different binary for different hardware. o  > > -  When first powered up, the little battery that keeps the  > NV-RAM alive was@ > flat resulting in (what seemed like) spurious boot time error  > messages.  ItB? > would see prudent to back up the SRM environment settings so d > that once I gete? > them sorted, to paper and/or disk.  Is this possible without l > using a pen ando > paper?  = > - Ditto on buying the latest version of Unix that works on a > this box frome8 > Compaq.  Would they sell it to me?  Could I afford it?  P Couldn't afford it I think, the prices are very high and I havent' heared about " the a hobbiest program for True64.    c > Linux and BSD....f= > - If I can't get any where with Digital Unix and/or VMS on d > the above boxes,> > I was going to move to BSD or failing that Linux.  Although  > I'm aware of theH > "official" sites for these OS's, are there any practical guides to theC > process (and pitfalls) that I might experience while moving over?S= > Basically, I'd like to learn the installed OS's, so I only H > want to do this G > if all else fails.  I could do with doing a bit of "staggering on the0> > shoulders of giants" before lurching off in a new direction.@ > - I know Redhat very well.  Does anyone know if this works OK  > on either thee
 > 200 or 255?c  ` Redhat is a very good choice, I don't know if the 200 or the 255 are supported by linux or BSD.      > Further madness...= > -  The 255 has SRM loaded.  The 200 seems to have both ARM e > and SRM loaded.A7 > Does anyone know why these two boot/debug tools were E > separate?  Was it ag: > technical thing or was ARM an add on to tap into the NT  > market place?  Justk > interested, that's all...b   ARM is for the NT wizzkids.O  9 > -  I've also got a Vaxstation 4000 model 60.  It is my D > intention to move on= > to this once the above are working (or not!).  Does anyone p > know of any good& > information sources on this old box? >   ^ Yes, but that is another story. Please try to ask that in an other message for this newsgroup.  C > Thanks very much for reading my questions, any help would be muchR > appreciated. >  You are welcome._ If have forgotten something please ask it again or be free to response with the correct answer.0   Jeroen   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:40:03 +0200* From: "Zoldric Caff" <zoldric@hotmail.com>1 Subject: OpenVMS Performance tuning on a Wildfirem/ Message-ID: <1018262404.154363@ftp.adept.co.za>i   Hi  K I am doing some performance tuning on a GS160 Wildfire running OpenVMS 7.3.p  . Does anyone have any performance documentation/ that focus of the Wildfire's NUMA architecture.    Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:56:19 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Performance tuning on a Wildfirer) Message-ID: <3CB18563.EC8BD569@127.0.0.1>t   Zoldric Caff wrote::M > I am doing some performance tuning on a GS160 Wildfire running OpenVMS 7.3.r > 0 > Does anyone have any performance documentation1 > that focus of the Wildfire's NUMA architecture.d   Go to   & http://www.compaq.co.uk/campaigns/vms/  B and grab "Performance Management" by Steve Lieman, and NUMA by Ian	 Percival.u  E While this is not documentation, these powerpoints discuss issues you,G probably want to address. You also probably want to read up about RAD'sP+ (Resource Affinity Domains) in the doc set.  -- i( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:30:19 -0400> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>5 Subject: RE: OpenVMS Performance tuning on a WildfirecM Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C37C1@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>o  	 There is  L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/openvms-on-gs-config-and-p erf/index.html? which may contain same and/or similar to what Nic Clews posted.    :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway0 Albany, NY  12204a USAF 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.comb  ) I post personal opinion only, and all thed* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).c+ One should also take note of the Electronics) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whiche+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anyS( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]A& > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:56 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come7 > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Performance tuning on a WildfireS >  >  > Zoldric Caff wrote:S; > > I am doing some performance tuning on a GS160 Wildfire O > running OpenVMS 7.3. > > 2 > > Does anyone have any performance documentation3 > > that focus of the Wildfire's NUMA architecture.f >  > Go tot > ( > http://www.compaq.co.uk/campaigns/vms/ > D > and grab "Performance Management" by Steve Lieman, and NUMA by Ian > Percival.E > G > While this is not documentation, these powerpoints discuss issues you.> > probably want to address. You also probably want to read up 
 > about RAD'sY- > (Resource Affinity Domains) in the doc set.f > -- a* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot com2 >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:03:03 -0500n- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.3O3 Message-ID: <+uOUdFMMy1v9@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  L In article <a8p1g7$emu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > J > Not used much anymore, but I've never had seen problem with Notes using  > VMS 7.3 on Alpha.   C    Except for all us brave fools who actually still use Eisner (aka0&    Encompasserve, formerly DECUServe).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:17:19 +01002% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ' Subject: Re: OT Re: British Summer Timei8 Message-ID: <8qj3bu41jmrqh4lg0iubfvc7qeno16h2oa@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:34:47 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Chris Sharman wrote:e >> a? >> "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message , >> news:uaqnfvt9022s73@news.supernews.com...5 >> > British Summertime - Isn't that an Oxymoron ????N >> D? >> Over 80F here in the office, though not as hot as yesterday.2 >> Sunny outside, too.& >> It might even last to the weekend ! >a: >Yes Chris, make the most of it, this _is_ our summer. :-)  F Hey, you forgot the week in August as well :) Whatever happened to the? late 80s/early 90s of droughts, hose-pipe bans, melting tarmac,tF plagues of lady-birds. The temp at Wimbledon Centre Court even reached 105F in the shade one year.A  / Can't it just stop raining for one more summer?g   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:22:15 -0400/ From: "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>R2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it/ Message-ID: <ub3gtpnplc9q68@corp.supernews.com>w  *     Get this man on a case study, stat! :)  L                                                                         mike    4 "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message, news:060420021413594023%elliott@yrl.co.uk...; > In article <uasuqco4ot4378@corp.supernews.com>, GreyCloudv > <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:r > J > > OT here, but in another newsgroup concerning OpenVMS, a college fellowL > > claimed that no one is developing any new products for OpenVMS.  Is this > > true???  >iI > A college fellow eh? So all he needs is a single counter example right?_ >S > Well *we* are. >0? > Customer relationship management system for users of the nexts? > generation of mobile devices, vehicle tracking and navigationv3 > assistance with hybrid on-board off-board design.c >nD > Any piece of trendy throwaway junk at the client end. VMS servers. >8H > Why VMS? By far the lowest TCO. Utter bomb-proof reliability. FabulousB > low cost, low-key developer program (CSA). Efficient no-nonsense > development tools. RMS.nB > The risk of having to butcher your code in the shifting sands ofH > Windows and snake-oil middleware is far greater than for unadorned VMS >7H > Which all the whiners here already know full well is true. Who gives aG > flying f*** what pea-brained 'analysts' say? We use the best tool fors > the job. We know what it is.G > And if it *does* go pear-shaped, who cares? It is easy to port to andcI > from VMS to/from whatever. We might as well use the good stuff while it  > lasts.I > Why should VMS users be panic-ed into jumping ship? It is simply silly.D >EI > We are only little; we not getting rich all that fast. But hell, we arev
 > having fun.1E > In between we do a bit of contracting to fund the development work.e >aB > Laying into Fred K is massively counter-productive. He's the oneF > writing our alpha insurance. He and his cohorts need to know that usI > VMS application developers are behind them 100%; that we appreciate thefI > genius and love that has been sunk into VMS this last 20 years; that itFE > more than just commerce that makes it fun to come to work each day.a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:27:43 -0400/ From: "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>n2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it/ Message-ID: <ub3h849rem4fef@corp.supernews.com>s  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messaget" news:3CAFBAB1.305@tsoft-inc.com... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >s9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagebA > > news:Ieur8.134395$VJ1.11389758@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...a > > I > >>>And you think that somehow whining and causing FUD in this newsgroup  > >>>r > > will > >s > >>do > >>6 > >>>it?  Who do you want to manage the company?  You? > >>>nJ > >>As others have stated, a trained monkey would be an improvement, and I7 > >>suspect I could do at least a bit better than that.A > >> > >> > > ' > > I'll take the trained monkey first.M >e@ > You promise to be a bit less nasty, and see how long it lasts. >oH     Try to have a bit of a sense of humour. It'll help you live longer..  <     Fred, just make sure you mount the scratch monkey first.  H                                                                     mike   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:11:49 +02007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>  Subject: RE: Scsi clusterCO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6E1F@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>O  > > I have a standalone DS10, and I have an AS2100a attached to  > an HSZ50.  BothS> > of them have VMS 7.2-1  I want to cluster them together.  I  > have all theH > cables I need to connect the DS10 to the HSZ.  If I connect them first> > (prior to "clustering" them), can I access the HSZ disks so  > that I can do an; > image copy from the DS10 internal disk to one of the HSZ , > disks?  Will there< > be any hazard from connecting the DS10 to the HSZ that is  > being used by theo@ > 2100?  The 2100 is an actively used machine.  The DS10 is not  > currently.< > being used for anything.  It was being used for our Alpha  > Migration testing.  # Two thing you have to look out for.tB 1) SCSI id's of both the scsi adaptors, they need to be different.C 2) It would be less complicated if the host id's would be the same.iI If the HSZ disks are know as dkc disks, try to use the dkc adaptor on the 
 ds10 host.  K As long as you are not in a cluster don't mount a disks on the two hosts at- the same time.K Or be prepared to be very carefull and do an "analyze /disk" after that and  accept some loss of data.   G As said by someone else maybe it would be wise to turn the ds10 and the ) as2100 first in a clustermembers and thent. doing the migration/backup of the systemdisk.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 07:49:01 -0700n& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)' Subject: Re: SCSI Raid options for DS103< Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0204080649.5c2da5a@posting.google.com>   John,tE      clustering via backplane RAID controllers is not an issue for usg> and ours; getting faster backplane RAID support under VMS (theF hardware for Alphas is THERE and has been for a long time under TRU64)B and/or faster external RAID controller access without being forcedD into higher priced fiber... thats the issue.  I'm glad for the hintsE that something is underway; unfortunately that was also the case lasttD July when all our sales died, and unless something's coming out RSN,3 its too late for these current potential customers.g   Rich Jordanm  _ "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<3CB09EBC.3080702@qsl.network>...o > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >  iG > > While it was not on Rich's list of requirements, for some of us theIG > > ability to do SCSI clustering is important in such adapters.   HigheG > > reliability requirements are not necessarily associated with largere# > > configurations, and vice versa.o > C > I do not know what specific non-raid adapters are in development.b > J > For the backplane raid adapters, accessing the raid disks from multiple E > hosts concurently is not on any of the roadmaps that I am aware of.  >  > -Johno > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only-   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 04:31:20 -0600a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e) Subject: RE: Security audit tools for VMS 3 Message-ID: <Jw9t1LcYSzS6@eisner.encompasserve.org>a   In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CED5A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:( >>>> I am partial to LJK/Security :-)<<< >  > Hey !  > & > Now, how did I forget those folks ?? >  > :-)x  A Because I am so quiet and lacking in opinions, and if you believer that, then, well...r  
 ...S.1618 :-)e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 07:24:00 -0700a) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)l) Subject: Re: Security audit tools for VMSe= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204080624.389cabfb@posting.google.com>r  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<mmxSJu6I2403@eisner.encompasserve.org>...X > In article <a8q8fn$38h@news.or.intel.com>, "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com> writes: > J > > I am looking for a security tool, that will audit periodically our VMS
 > > clusters;i$ > > Do you have any recommandations? > " > I am partial to LJK/Security :-) > * > Follow the trail from http://www.ljk.com  ? And why exactly is this site running a, Uh hum, non VMS OS ????    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 07:35:31 -0700a) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)w) Subject: Re: Security audit tools for VMS = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204080635.1ec7056d@posting.google.com>n  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<mmxSJu6I2403@eisner.encompasserve.org>...X > In article <a8q8fn$38h@news.or.intel.com>, "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com> writes: > J > > I am looking for a security tool, that will audit periodically our VMS
 > > clusters;m$ > > Do you have any recommandations? > " > I am partial to LJK/Security :-) > * > Follow the trail from http://www.ljk.com  3 Sorry - can my previous response - www.ljk, www.jlkt   Sorry!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:16:39 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: Security audit tools for VMSa, Message-ID: <3CB1C264.BF9D74A5@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:* > >>>> I am partial to LJK/Security :-)<<<   <honest and blunt mode on>  L Your insistance on disabling javascript, cookies etc etc gives me a somewhat mixed impression.   L I would much prefer to see a security expert tell me how I can safely enableN all the goodies, rather than one who tells me I have to disable all that stuff' because of fear of bad stuff happening.a  K I.E. find a way to make things work safely as opposed to finding excuses toi turn things off.  M Granted, if I ran Windows crap, I would have reason to fear internet exploder N and outlook, but I use the web/news on a MAC and do serious email and ftp fromK a vax. That gives me the flexibility to have all the goodies enabled on thet: MAC while keeping my vaxes as secure as I want them to be.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 11:28:50 -0500h- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a) Subject: Re: Security audit tools for VMS 3 Message-ID: <a7uOD$TsbG8G@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  i In article <55f85d77.0204080624.389cabfb@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:tj > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<mmxSJu6I2403@eisner.encompasserve.org>...Y >> In article <a8q8fn$38h@news.or.intel.com>, "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com> writes:t >>  K >> > I am looking for a security tool, that will audit periodically our VMSf >> > clusters;% >> > Do you have any recommandations?g >> y# >> I am partial to LJK/Security :-)n >>  + >> Follow the trail from http://www.ljk.comD > A > And why exactly is this site running a, Uh hum, non VMS OS ????t  @ As you noted in your correction, the web site is running on VMS.  A That took a bit of effort, as the first hosting vendor got boughtlA by another company that decided that they did not want to host ontC VMS anymore.  The subsequent hosting vendor was running a differentgE web server on VMS, and that is not transparent from the HTML author's. perspective.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:10:46 +02000 From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: Solid State disk drives& Message-ID: <3CB13466.5060803@home.nl>  G I don't know what you need it for, but have you considered using a RAM hH disk in the system memory, and shadowing that with a normal disk (or LD  disk) ?lE AFAIK it is supported, and it will most likely be even faster than a n solid-state disk.    John Smith wrote:s  I >Does anyone here have a recommendation for SSD's that work with OpenVMS?  >o8 >platypus.net has them for Tru64, but no OpenVMS driver. >m >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:15:33 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: Solid State disk drives) Message-ID: <3CB15FB4.88A33799@127.0.0.1>r   John Smith wrote:s > J > Does anyone here have a recommendation for SSD's that work with OpenVMS? > 9 > platypus.net has them for Tru64, but no OpenVMS driver.n  = I hacked about with an SSD, admittedly under DSSI but for thewE _application_ I was comparing with a standard disk, there was no real0H different in the processing times but significantly, there was no big IOH que values in the first place, and I'd mounted the 'ordinary' drive withE parameters geared towards access speed (caching and cache sizes etc.)i  G Perhaps the story would have been different if I were dealing with veryiG fragmented files and  significantly more powerful CPU and IO buses (was- using a 4705A c/w DSSI).  G I'd be tempted to prove to yourself that your application is waiting on.F data from the drive before just thinking it'll make everything faster.   YMMV.6 -- B( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 06:21:04 +0000 (UTC)  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid9 Subject: Re: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms! * Message-ID: <a8rcsg$v0l$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  ) Bob Ceculski <BOB@instantwhip.com> wrote:ao : bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0204061322.2b99c1f7@posting.google.com>...y3 :> remember m.c. hammer and "YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS"?b4 :> why not hire him to do a vms commercial?  Instead0 :> of his line above, he could sing and dance to :> e :> "YOU CAN'T HACK THIS"!- :> -5 :> that would be an awesome commercial!  how about it4, :> Sue, or anyone else in Q or HP marketing?  8 : he and his dance team would be wearing OpenVMS tshirts8 : and you could film it at defcon10, and use some of the4 : defcon10 people in the clip trying to hack vms but9 : failing ... if you want help directing the whole thing,n4 : I would be happy to oblige for free ... I have the) : whole thing laid out, and it's awesome!   , Initially, I thought you were a bored troll.J Now, I think that either you've got a very sick and acute sense or humour,# or you yourself are in fact a joke.x   MC Hammer? Hello!t  ? The guy declares bankruptcy then goes off to become a preacher. J I'm sure there's grist for Bill Todd's metaphor mill in there, but I don'tA that that's really the image that you -want- associated with VMS.s     D. -- o% " I don't get mad.... I get stabby. "  - William "Fat Tony" Williams.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:48:18 -0500* From: "Tom Flory" <tflory@epicsystems.com>! Subject: TNA devices in a clusterpJ Message-ID: <0252DA9D658BBD46880B050E509B3CC50460E7E8@mercury.epicsys.com>  E Can the id of terminal devices denoted  TNAxxxx: be duplicated at any E time in a cluster?  Are they unique in a cluster or only on a system?   	 Thanks...i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 13:35:20 -0400c1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>r% Subject: Re: TNA devices in a cluster/2 Message-ID: <3CB1D4D8.6AB07E58@clarityconnect.com>  F They are unique on a single system only.  If you had a 96 node cluster> you could have a TNA455: on all 96 nodes without any problems.   Tom Flory wrote: > G > Can the id of terminal devices denoted  TNAxxxx: be duplicated at anyuG > time in a cluster?  Are they unique in a cluster or only on a system?C >  > Thanks...    -- sC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:39:36 +0200x. From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@ito.nl>% Subject: Re: TNA devices in a cluster # Message-ID: <3CB1D5D8.30603@ito.nl>c   Tom Flory wrote:G > Can the id of terminal devices denoted  TNAxxxx: be duplicated at anyCG > time in a cluster?  Are they unique in a cluster or only on a system?7  ' They are only unique within the system.n   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 02:08:01 -07001! From: tiziana@satnet.it (tiziana)0 Subject: vendo vax 4000w= Message-ID: <642ffd32.0204080108.1906f2a0@posting.google.com>>   modello vax 4000-300 unita BA 4404 accessori circa 20 videoterminali hab stampanti cavi   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:59:06 -0700, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: VMS doesn't sucky4 Message-ID: <a8slp1$v5pt6$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  	 See here:    http://srom.zgp.org/   jimf   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 07:59:37 -0700a( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Planse= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204080659.4ba83207@posting.google.com>n  Q david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<a8cd8j$1f1$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...rB > >Why not just migrate to Oracle 9I on VMS? Do you really want toH > >migrate to an operating system (Tru64) that is definitely going away?I > >Last I checked VMS was scheduled to live on but Tru64 was to vanish inlG > >favour of HP-UX - with vague promises of feature transplants. I'd be D > >inclined to look at moving to anything *but* Tru64 given Compaq'sI > >recent behaviour. Different if you already run Tru64 in production but0 > >start a migration now?. > >.F > >Seriously what is the driver to move away from VMS? Don't you trustD > >Compaq's promises (I wouldn't blame you) or is something critical > >missing?S > >o > P > In our case the fact that Tru64 won't be ported to IA64 doesn't really matter.Q > (Personally I'd have been much happier if Compaq had continued supporting Alphae- > since I doubt IA64 has much future anyway).t >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >   C Itanium has a future because Intel needs a 64 bit platform and they-C wouldn't have picked up alpha rights and engineers if they were not C serious about getting into high end computing ... and vms will porttD to it because vms is the most reliable, most secure, "unhackable" os
 out there!   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:35:39 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plansi* Message-ID: <a8sdcb$eu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>  h In article <d7791aa1.0204080659.4ba83207@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:R >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<a8cd8j$1f1$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...Q >> In our case the fact that Tru64 won't be ported to IA64 doesn't really matter.eR >> (Personally I'd have been much happier if Compaq had continued supporting Alpha. >> since I doubt IA64 has much future anyway). >>  
 >> David Webbl >> VMS and Unix team leader  >> CCSSf >> Middlesex University  >> g >nD >Itanium has a future because Intel needs a 64 bit platform and theyD >wouldn't have picked up alpha rights and engineers if they were notD >serious about getting into high end computing ... and vms will portE >to it because vms is the most reliable, most secure, "unhackable" osp >out there!   I That's why Intel has a backup plan - a 64bit extension to IA32 similar to 
 AMD's hammer.c  O IA64 doesn't look to have much of a future in high end computing. It hasn't got-N the performance or the applications. The only chip it has the power to competeI against is SPARC but SUN has been able to sell their underperforming chipD" because they had the applications.  M VMS may well be ported to IA64. Whether anyone will buy a VMS IA64 box beforesF the end of the decade - when IA64 might have eventually become better J performing than alpha EV7 because of the flow of time - is another matter.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:30:01 -0400>- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n) Subject: Re: VMS To Tru64 Migration Plans,, Message-ID: <3CB1C586.6A05FD1D@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote: E > Itanium has a future because Intel needs a 64 bit platform and theyhE > wouldn't have picked up alpha rights and engineers if they were not 3 > serious about getting into high end computing ...a  I Or simply eliminate a chp design that was far superior to its own becauseuM Intel knew it would never be able to match Alpha. There are two ways to go up Q in a competition. Be better than your competitors, or eliminate your competitors.2  Z Intel chose to eliminate Alpha because IA64's core design is just too full of compromises.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:11:38 +0100b% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>nK Subject: Re: What OS Was www.openvms.digital.com Running On n 22-Sep-1998 ?e8 Message-ID: <unj3bu0jq15qjb0ihhe8u1vj6oo5btdcm7@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 22:23:48 GMT, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerrym Leslie) wrote:     >u= >Sounds like the comment about NT V8.0 was an inside job. ;-)   1 It was put there by the official page maintainer.f   >HI >--Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own) : >  Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:10:09 +0100yT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>Y Subject: Re: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clu & Message-ID: <3CB1CEF1.8080008@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:   r > Andrew Harrison <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CAB2311.4010508@sun.com>... >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >> >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CA9D9AD.1070104@sun.com>...  >>>sG >>>>A GS320 is not equivalent to a Sun F15000, HP SuperDome or IBM P6901L >>>>it just does not compare, CPU capacity, I/O bandwidth, memory, benchmarkK >>>>results. For example a  Sun F6800 has better apps performance than the nL >>>>GS320 as does an IBM P680. By virtually any measure you chose to use theC >>>>GS320 is a mid range system by anyone elses standards (with the L >>>>exception of SPECint and SPECfp) which no one uses to measure commercial >>>>performance).  >>>> >>>>D >>>you mean running one alpha chip againset 128 sparc garbage chips? >>>  >>> @ >>No much worse I mean running 24 SPARC chips against 32 Alpha's >>guess which were faster ???h >>* >>Or 24 Power processors against 32 Alphas >>guess which were faster ???i >>; >>Your definition of garbage appears to be a smaller number 7 >>of CPU's of one type outperforming a larger number of,7 >>CPU's of another type. By this definition Alpha's fit " >>the garbage category nicely :):) >>	 >>Regardso >> >>Andrew Harrisonw >> > A > what Alpha, the EV4?  You been hitting the sauce lately Andrew?     ? Since when were the 1001 Mhz and 731 Mhz processors part of the  EV4 generation ?   Send is not your friend !i     Regardsr   Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 8 APR 2002 16:39:49 GMT + From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>o, Subject: Re: Who has (ever) used DECmigrate?1 Message-ID: <8APR02.16394901@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>t  E In a previous article, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:oC > I'm interested to get field feedback from users of the DECmigratelD > utility, aka VEST, which, for those who do not know about it, is aI > binary image translator produced by the DEC Migration Engineering GroupaJ > when the Alpha came to life, to allow VAX executable images to be run on > Alpha systems. >  oJ > After 20 years of VMS support, as I said in another post here, I know of > noone in Europe. >  eB > I personally think that the users did find their sources and did) > compile/link them on their new systems.d  E I VESTed a number of utilities and shareable images to jump-start our H migration from VAX to alpha.  Those have all been natively built by now.H However, I did VEST a 3rd party product because the vendor was no longerA producing a VMS version of the code - let alone an alpha version.   E And, I did VEST a couple of programs for one of our uses who had lostc his source code.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVrH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:36:11 +0000 (UTC)9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> = Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up) - Message-ID: <a8roab$q1f$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  F : Cloning the address space is the "easy" part, even if it may be moreL : overhead than a typical UNIX, a harder part is how to mimic the global I/ON : model of UNIX.  On VMS, the structures are mostly all process based, and notG : in a shared system space.  So the parent has an open file, and an I/O2F : channel associated with it.  Even once you go through the process ofL : "cloning" it, it doesn't become shared between the parent and the child inM : the same way UNIX would.  So.  Do we create a UNIX-like I/O mechanism for CuF : programs?  Do we try to solve the problem for programs that also useB : non-UNIX shared libraries?  It's not an "easy" problem to solve.  ) In other words, incompatibility problems?-  ) How about looking at how IBM has done it?   N IBMs z/OS has probably the same compatibility problems? (I do not really know)" (z/OS, previously OS/390, I think) But it has Unix support.+ (See http://www.lairdstahl.com/3027.htm and 7 http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/unix/) # There are some OS design figures ond; http://www-ti.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/os390/tabcont.htmeK It seems the Unix part is in it's own subsystem or something, but it is notc easy getting that kind of info.,   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:11:53 -0500s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)t3 Message-ID: <1iJti4SwTQoU@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  _ In article <a8kuvj$3c6$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:d  I > Two questions if people here don't mind this being continued by someonel+ > who doesn't know but would like to learn.n > I > Does this NOWRT/NOEXE stuff have anything to do with the difficulty VMS 3 > seems to have implimenting the UNIX fork() call??m  G I doubt it.  UNIX also has page protection which implements things likes nowrt.    > > Would NOEXE apply to memory space allocated using malloc()??  H Since NOEXE is only a hint to the linker and the linker doens't see that! space, probably not a real issue.r   > bill >  > -- nL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:14:15 -0500S- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up) 3 Message-ID: <uf72t0ChrhY8@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  S In article <3CAE4403.9E2917C1@earthlink.net>, ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> writes:n  I > Putting code in a buffer and calling it is fun but does anyone have anyt > practical use for it?   G    Yes.  Some systems generate code on the fly.  Others use it for morea    despicable purposes.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:24:33 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up)3' Message-ID: <3CB1C441.3D8605CD@aaa.com>w   Anyone heard of Rdb ?h* It creates machine code on-the-fly anytime5 someone executes an SQL statement (at least a dynamic(9 SQL statement). Rdb must be able to allocate some memory,i5 write the generated machine code and then execute it.n   Jan-Erik Sderholm   Bob Koehler wrote: > U > In article <3CAE4403.9E2917C1@earthlink.net>, ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> writes:  > K > > Putting code in a buffer and calling it is fun but does anyone have any  > > practical use for it?  > I >    Yes.  Some systems generate code on the fly.  Others use it for moreg >    despicable purposes.7   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2002 09:39:46 -0700n( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 3 ... (follow-up) = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204080839.7cb14583@posting.google.com>w  e Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<3CAD2A34.7000308@wasd.vsm.com.au>...e > Thanks for that Aaron.' > Very clear demonstration of the pointl7 > (in a sea of what is often ranting personal opinion).s+ > Can't help thinking of that old aphorism,h, > "Unix doesn't stop you doing stupid things3 > because that would stop you doing clever things".tF > In this case it doesn't stop others doing "clever" things either ;^) >   4 so what good is that if you can get hacked to death?  Security is number one "always"!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.194 ************************