1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 12 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 202       Contents:3 (OT) Sung to the tune of the Brady Bunch theme song  Re: a new server Re: a new server Accessing CD-ROM over network ! Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network ! Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network ! Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network ! Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network   Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement  Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement  Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement  Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement  Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement2 Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.6 Release1 for OpenVMS2 Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.6 Release1 for OpenVMS2 Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.6 Release1 for OpenVMS0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe Re: Apache on OpenVMS ) ASCII to Postscript Convertor for VAX/VMS - Re: ASCII to Postscript Convertor for VAX/VMS - Re: ASCII to Postscript Convertor for VAX/VMS ) Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written ) Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written ) Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: CLD problem (flight) Re: CLD problem (flight) Re: CLD problem (flight) Re: CLD problem (flight)! Re: confusing >>> Show Dev Output ? RE: connecting UPS to VAX serial port (disabling logins on TXA) 0 Re: determine display server number for SSH X11?0 Re: determine display server number for SSH X11? DRAS and no Service-Type?  Re: EWA-bootdriver messages  Re: Fibre Channel , Re: Give us your Apache 1.3/2.0 requirementsP Give us your Apache 1.3/2.0 requirements  [Was: RE: Talk about quick response, r Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings  Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings  Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings * Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: IA64 is not the VAX 2 is that and error message and what does this mean?6 Re: is that and error message and what does this mean? Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: LANCP ERROR MESSAGE  LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au  Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au 0 Memo:  Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written1 Memo:  Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems. P Re: online atricle about sample X11 server architecture and DECwindows architectP Re: online atricle about sample X11 server architecture and DECwindows architect7 Re: Please Disregard / Mail Server Troubleshooting Test 0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it 2 re: Problems writing blank tape in TZ86 tape drive PS Device Control Library # Re: Reboot after adding quorum disk , Re: Redirect SYS$OUTPUT for detached process, Re: Redirect SYS$OUTPUT for detached processP Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the CoP Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Co> Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks> Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks< Re: Samba V2.0.6 Failed to UID error Network map drive error# RE: Start Windows program from VMS? 6 Sun marketing worse than VMS marketing!  Sells lemons!, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?. Re: VMS "unhackable" example just for Andy ...5 Re: VMS boottime - how to calculate # of days running 0 what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?4 Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?4 Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?4 Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?4 RE: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?4 Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?4 Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?( Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:18:28 -0700 , From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>< Subject: (OT) Sung to the tune of the Brady Bunch theme song3 Message-ID: <a96qb8$qn6r$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>    Here's a story Of a lovely lady  0 Who had found her new dream job was much too big  + Her company had no profits and no direction    Just a printer gig     Here's a story   Of a firm from Houston  3 That was getting their asses kicked by Sun and Dell   2 The DEC deal gave them nothing but extra headcount   The stock price went to hell    , Till the one day this lady met these fellows  5 And they knew that it was much more than just a hunch   ; That two bureaucracies and their bankers would get together   + That's the way we all became the "HP BUNCH"      The HP BUNCH   Dell ate our lunch  % That's the way we became the HP BUNCH    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:31:23 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: a new server , Message-ID: <3CB67F3B.3090107@volkswagen.de>   Hamid Bourchi wrote: > Hello, > L > After experincing some serius performance problems during last 2 weeks, we< > are considering to buy a new Alphaserver. Our options are:A > 1 - a second hand Alpha 1200. 2 processor 400 MHZ and 1 GB mem. ? > 2 - a new Alphaserver DS20E 1 processor 833 MHZ and 1 GB mem.  > 9 > Right now we are running with following configurations:  > hardware: ) > Alpha 1000A 233 Mhz processor, 512 mem.  > 
 > sofware:
 > OpenVMS 7.2  > Oracle 8.1.7 as database' > Oracle designer, forms and reports 6.  > F > In the end of 2002 our system has to be acceable for about 50 users.N > Has anyone experince with those servers? Considering the high price of these$ > machines we appricate any respons. >  > 
 > Regards, > Hamid Bourchi  >  >  >   G Also consider the fact, that a new DS20E is covered by warranty whereas + the AS1200 may be not, depends on the deal.    --    - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl RohwedderB iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 H   E-Mail: rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de        | iT-IngTeam(at)t-online.de/           karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de  DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 06:20:41 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: a new server 3 Message-ID: <QigXl3Kl$wlR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <3CB67F3B.3090107@volkswagen.de>, Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> writes:   G >> In the end of 2002 our system has to be acceable for about 50 users.   ? When I read the original post I was (obviously) in a hurry, and > read the above as saying it has to be accessible for 50 years.  @ I thought it was a bit of a stretch, but less so that from other vendors :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:08:02 +0100 $ From: "issinoho" <iain@issinoho.com>& Subject: Accessing CD-ROM over network5 Message-ID: <1018616900.20485.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net>   * Anyone got any bright ideas on this one...  G I've recently acquired an old VAX 4000-200 which I've got running quite K sweetly on our network, however I want to upgrade VMS and have no access to D a CD-ROM. The VAX has an external SCSI connector but I don't have anH external SCSI CD-ROM and wouldn't know which model to get which would be compatible. Any ideas?  K Alternatively, how can I access a CD-ROM served from either UNIX or Windows D across the LAN? I'm running 5.5A and have UCX 2.0b and Pathworks 4.1E running. I'd like to copy a CD-ROM across the LAN to a local disk and  install VMS from there.   	 Any help?   	 issinoho.  UK.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:46:33 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> * Subject: Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network; Message-ID: <01KGHCBQO0E09EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > I've recently acquired an old VAX 4000-200 which I've got running quite J > sweetly on our network, however I want to upgrade VMS and have no accessI > to a CD-ROM. The VAX has an external SCSI connector but I don't have an J > external SCSI CD-ROM and wouldn't know which model to get which would be > compatible. Any ideas?    F You could connect the machine containing the CD to the VAX via a SCSI H cable between the external connections.  As long as the cable length is E OK and there are no ID conflicts, you should be able to mount the CD  G from the VAX.  (I have never installed VMS from CD on VAX, but have on  F ALPHA---also via this method.  For VAX, I copied the savesets from CD F (mounted on ALPHA) to VAX (mounted by the method described above) and  installed from disk.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:20:29 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> * Subject: Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network0 Message-ID: <3CB6ED2D.9612306@BlueBubble.UK.Com>   issinoho wrote:   , > Anyone got any bright ideas on this one... > I > I've recently acquired an old VAX 4000-200 which I've got running quite M > sweetly on our network, however I want to upgrade VMS and have no access to F > a CD-ROM. The VAX has an external SCSI connector but I don't have anJ > external SCSI CD-ROM and wouldn't know which model to get which would be > compatible. Any ideas?   Where are you geographically ?  J Wouldn't be the first time I've loaned a CD drive to fellow VMS people :-)  5 I'm near Saffron Walden, 10 miles south of Cambridge.   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:33:08 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> * Subject: Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network/ Message-ID: <3CB6FE34.8080900@xs4all.nospam.nl>    issinoho wrote: , > Anyone got any bright ideas on this one... > I > I've recently acquired an old VAX 4000-200 which I've got running quite M > sweetly on our network, however I want to upgrade VMS and have no access to F > a CD-ROM. The VAX has an external SCSI connector but I don't have anJ > external SCSI CD-ROM and wouldn't know which model to get which would be > compatible. Any ideas? > M > Alternatively, how can I access a CD-ROM served from either UNIX or Windows F > across the LAN? I'm running 5.5A and have UCX 2.0b and Pathworks 4.1G > running. I'd like to copy a CD-ROM across the LAN to a local disk and  > install VMS from there.  >  > Any help?   ) Well, I'm afraid this isn't much help :-(   I The 50 p centronics connector of a VAX 4000-200 is a SCSI connector, but  E unless you have a tapedrive in the box, there is most likely no SCSI  I controller. The setup was, that you have a Qbus SCSI controller which is  I externally connected to the connector you have, which in turn internally   connects to the tape drive.   H Without another VMS system with a CD player, it is difficult to make an G image copy of an OpenVMS CD, without thorough knowledge of the 'other'  H operating system. With VMS you can make an /IMAGE BACKUP of the CD to a I saveset, then copy the saveset to the VAX using either Pathworks or UCX,  G restore the file attributes of the save set and finally restore /IMAGE  G to the target disk. You may need the FILE tool from the freeware CD to  H restore the attributes, because 5.5 doesn't have the SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE 
 command, yet.   C If you have another VAX running, then you could consider forming a  H cluster by booting your VAX over the network. This would be the easiest  way by far.   
 Good luck!  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:59:31 +0000 (UTC) 0 From: sssslewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)* Subject: Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network. Message-ID: <a977a3$2gk$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "issinoho" <iain@issinoho.com> writes in article <1018616900.20485.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> dated Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:08:02 +0100: + >Anyone got any bright ideas on this one...  > H >I've recently acquired an old VAX 4000-200 which I've got running quiteL >sweetly on our network, however I want to upgrade VMS and have no access toE >a CD-ROM. The VAX has an external SCSI connector but I don't have an I >external SCSI CD-ROM and wouldn't know which model to get which would be  >compatible. Any ideas?  > L >Alternatively, how can I access a CD-ROM served from either UNIX or WindowsE >across the LAN? I'm running 5.5A and have UCX 2.0b and Pathworks 4.1 F >running. I'd like to copy a CD-ROM across the LAN to a local disk and >install VMS from there.  K Before I had CDRECORD on VMS, I used VDDRIVER (now called LDDRIVER I think) I to make a virtual disk which had an image file associated with it.  After J populating and dismounting the virtual disk, I could ftp the image file to Unix and burn a Files-11 CD.  I I think you could do the reverse for your upgrade.  Use a Unix utility to J grab the "image" of the CD, ftp that 640 Meg file to the VAX, and mount it with VDDRIVER.    C You might have to use COPY/CONTIG if your transfer method creates a 9 non-contiguous file.  Too bad there's no COPY/FTP/CONTIG.   I If you're upgrading the OS, you will need to use BACKUP/IMAGE to move the I files to a bootable disk because you can't boot from a virtual disk.  And J possibly WRITEBOOT.EXE (that's what it's called on OpenVMS/Alpha, not sure# about VAX) to write the boot block.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:39:50 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>) Subject: Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement 5 Message-ID: <1020412032627.1633A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   % On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Bill Todd wrote:    > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CB6548D.336BE08B@videotron.ca... >  > ...  > M > > Now, if the DS10 were upgraded to support EV7, it would be able to use up N > > those EV7 chips that are not certified for the highest speed but work fine > at > > the lower speeds.  > K > What makes you think they wouldn't be worth much more installed in server , > systems that don't need the highest speed? > J > A well-controlled process doesn't produce much speed (bin) variation.  II > happened to see prices for AthlonXPs recently:  the 1700+ is the lowest J > grade they bother selling, indicating that there aren't enough dice thatK > function at all but not at that frequency (whatever it really is, but the H > 'quantispeed grade *differences* are linear at 1.5x the real frequencyN > differences, so we can use the q-numbers without loss of generality here) toM > be worth selling; the 1800+ costs well under 10% more; price goes up around F > 20% for each of the next two grades (1900+ and 2000+), and the 2100+N > top-of-the-line model costs IIRC a bit over twice what the 1700+ costs (even$ > though it's less than 25% faster). >  > > M > > The problem with having some Alphas use EV6x and some use EV7x means that  > thatL > > you have to have two lines, and the "rejects" from both lines don't have > much use.  > L > As noted above, there aren't enough rejects to bother with if your processM > is good.  For very large chips like the EV7 it's sometimes possible to makeeL > use of chips that have actual defects (e.g., a cache segment doesn't work)H > if you have a mechanism for working around such defects such that theyC > aren't fatal, but that's an entirely different issue from that ofe > speed-grade rejections.e >  > >lM > > Now, in the post june 25 context, this is probably moot because all EV68sV > haveL > > probably already been fabbed, and the DS line of machines probably has aF > > finite lifetime already set due to the fixed supply of chips left. > K > Only if Compaq wants it that way:  if they want IBM to fab more, I'm surei > IBM will accommodate them. >  > >tM > > However, what puzzles me is at the time EV7 was designed, did they make a H > > conscious management decision that Alpha was to be relegated to only
 > wildfireM > > class machines with no plans to upgrade the DS10/20 stuff (hence allowingeN > > engineers to put stuff in EV7 that was of no use to DS10 class machines) ? > J > DS20s and ES45s are hardly 'wildfire-class' machines, but definitely can > benefit from EV7.  >  > >hI > > Could the Alpha engineers have designed EV7 to be usable in DS10/DS20b > classhL > > machines while keeping all the goodies for the wildfire class machines ? > N > EV7 of course *could* be used in a DS10 class machine, but what would be theK > market for it if EV6-based DS10s were available too at a noticeably lowerm > price? > K > It sounds as if EV7 *does* have a two-processor configuration planned, soeM > that presumably covers DS20 and in doing so eliminates any need to have SMPeI > EV6 boards.  This gives you an inexpensive entry-level Alpha (DS10 withsL > EV6) - less expensive than it would have been using EV7 - plus the rest ofJ > the line starting with a dual-processor EV7-based DS20.  While there's aI > noticeable gap between those two, it's not clear that, especially given N > Alpha's market, it's a significant one:  I'd be happy that the DS10 is being) > continued at all (assuming that it is).  >  > - bill  C Anything to stop them from doing a single-processor DS20, simply byeA de-populating it?  Field-upgradeable to to a dual-processor for asE few K $ by just popping in a 2nd CPU?  Gives the customer a somethingsD faster than the DS10, with better I/O bandwidth and an upgrade path, at an intermediate price.A  C The only reasons I could see for not doing this are 1) economic: it C wouldn't be enough cheaper than the dual-processor DS20 to be worthhB the trouble, or 2) technical: the interprocessor glue logic on theC CPU doesn't work unless it has something to talk to.  (If this were > the case, they could probably build a dummy CPU load module to? provide the right impedences and signal reflections to keep the < real CPU happy, but this would blow away any price benefit.)   -- 0 John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:48:57 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcementcK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1204020848580001@1cust168.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>r  5 In article <3CB6548D.336BE08B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeia% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   J >Granted, Alpha being dead, it may not be worth even considering upgradingM >DS10. But I very much *dislike* the argument that upgrading the DS10 to haved >EV7 would be a major job.  G If you think it is an easy job, do it yourself.  I expect you'll change 
 your mind.  M >Intel's cronies don't seem to have any problems spewing out new PCs wheneveroD >Intel comes out with a brand new revolutionary version of the 8086. > O >From what it was explained to me, when they build a wafer with lots of cpus on N >it, once they cut them, they test each CPU to see how fast it can go. So fromO >one wafer, they may produce a few CPUs that are certified for 1ghz, a few moree% >for 800mhz and the rest are no good.l >aJ >Now, if the DS10 were upgraded to support EV7, it would be able to use upN >those EV7 chips that are not certified for the highest speed but work fine at >the lower speeds.  D EV6 and EV7 have completely different pin-outs, different packaging,A different power and cooling requirements, etc.  At a minimum, theSJ motherboard would have to be completely redesigned, prototyped, qualified,D and stress tested.  Signal integrity is TOTALLY non-trivial in theseF systems.  "Small" changes can, and do, have unsuspected impacts on the behavior of the system.   O >The problem with having some Alphas use EV6x and some use EV7x means that thattI >you have to have two lines, and the "rejects" from both lines don't havet	 much use.I >tO >Now, in the post june 25 context, this is probably moot because all EV68s have?I >probably already been fabbed, and the DS line of machines probably has aIC >finite lifetime already set due to the fixed supply of chips left.A  I You seem to have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.  You-4 should have put a big smilely after your whole post.  J >However, what puzzles me is at the time EV7 was designed, did they make aN >conscious management decision that Alpha was to be relegated to only wildfireJ >class machines with no plans to upgrade the DS10/20 stuff (hence allowingK >engineers to put stuff in EV7 that was of no use to DS10 class machines) ?  >pL >Could the Alpha engineers have designed EV7 to be usable in DS10/DS20 classI >machines while keeping all the goodies for the wildfire class machines ?h  A There _is_ DS20-class machine in the picture that accompanies theeC announcement.  The only place where EV7 is an awkward fit is in theh 1-processor space.  G Still, EV7 chips are likely to remain significantly more expensive thanuE EV6 chips.  On that basis, I would extend the low-end family into thehJ future with EV6-based systems for as long as I could.  If I was making theE decisions.  Which I'm not.  But I've always wanted more low-end alpha0 systems anyway.h   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 08:37:28 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)d) Subject: Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcement 3 Message-ID: <wDoMvdTs3zCC@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  l In article <35ut8.2912$043.486329@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >    > I > It sounds as if EV7 *does* have a two-processor configuration planned,   >    	Magee points that out here:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/05040207.htms  7 Slide 50, for example, is a 64-way SMP Marvel.... oooh!   K It's worth grabbing it from this page, just in case it's not supposed to be,- lingering around in the university archives. 2   ---s  ! 	2p OR 8p building block modules.s  < 	This goes back to what Clair Grant mentioned Oct. 1998 that1 	"everyone will be doing building block servers."e  C 	One would believe a 2p server will go in a much smaller rack as iteC 	only goes up to 8p in that config (see slide 50).  Makes sense if 2$ 	they expect to sell it entry level.  2 	Slides 38-40 appear to be shots of large systems.   				RobR   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 08:41:42 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)5) Subject: Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcementw3 Message-ID: <saVAu+2ND4k5@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  , 	And as Robert D. points out, there is this:  9 http://www.compaq.com/hps/announce/alphaserver_image.html-  9 	In that picture is a little box.  Must be a 2 processor e 	EV7.o   				Roby  a In article <wDoMvdTs3zCC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:an > In article <35ut8.2912$043.486329@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> n >  >>  J >> It sounds as if EV7 *does* have a two-processor configuration planned,  >> s >  > 	Magee points that out here: > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/05040207.htmb > 9 > Slide 50, for example, is a 64-way SMP Marvel.... oooh!s > M > It's worth grabbing it from this page, just in case it's not supposed to be1/ > lingering around in the university archives. n >  > ---o > # > 	2p OR 8p building block modules.k > > > 	This goes back to what Clair Grant mentioned Oct. 1998 that3 > 	"everyone will be doing building block servers."c > E > 	One would believe a 2p server will go in a much smaller rack as ittE > 	only goes up to 8p in that config (see slide 50).  Makes sense if h& > 	they expect to sell it entry level. > 4 > 	Slides 38-40 appear to be shots of large systems. > 	 > 				Robe >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:03:48 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d) Subject: Re: Alphaserver EV7 announcementhE Message-ID: <8PBt8.1549$OI1.767@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s   Are you sure about that?   ;-)    @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message& news:a94vdf$evvq$1@lead.zk3.dec.com... >0  > Bill Todd wrote in message ... > >  > >gI > >That said, I have no idea how much it would cost to shrink EV6 (thoughn thekL > >fact that the core is almost identical to EV7's might allow it to ride onF > >the coattails of the EV7 shrink), and hence whether that would make sense. > >o > 1 > Remember that EV7 uis built around a EV68 core.  >a >- >. >e >X   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:12:53 +0200M6 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= ; Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.6 Release1 for OpenVMSt+ Message-ID: <3CB67AE5.42D5CED7@laposte.net>e   Rob,  L SWISH-E, another popular indexing system, run on VAX, you can download it at http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ and you can found a demo atV( http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/search.html     Regards,  
 Jean-Franoisl     Rob Buxton a crit : > 	 > Martin,e > D > For those of us playing with some of the VAX based Web Servers any% > chance of a VAX variant of ht//Dig?  >  > Rob. >-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:42:10 -0400n; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>O; Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.6 Release1 for OpenVMSo$ Message-ID: <3cb700c0$1@news.si.com>  = >ht://Dig for OpenVMS works under OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 or later.   : And it won't work on OpenVMS VAX V7.2 or later because...? -- tA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comRA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comx= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevento< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:13:47 +0200r2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender); Subject: Re: Announcing ht://Dig 3.1.6 Release1 for OpenVMS ; Message-ID: <3cb715cb.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>c  : Brian Tillman (tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com) wrote:@ > > ht://Dig for OpenVMS works under OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 or later. >t< > And it won't work on OpenVMS VAX V7.2 or later because...?  D I can really think of no reason, other than perhaps that the VAX C++B compiler is a bit behind the Alpha version. It's just that I can'tC create (and test) a VAX kit - if anyone has the equipment and wantsw to give it a try, go ahead.e   cu,    Martin -- pD                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de E  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/k8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:33:31 +0100uT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe & Message-ID: <3CB6B7FB.6000108@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:36:59 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:a >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>H >>>On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:49:45 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >>><andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>>  > D >>>As ever, YOU missed my point.  I never stated that top500.org wasF >>>compiled by Sun.  What I was trying to understand is why you chooseI >>>which benchmark organizations to spout on about.  You offer no clue astD >>>to why that's better than spec.org stats (which, similarly, isn'tF >>>compiled by Compaq or any other vendor).  However, you consistentlyH >>>berate the spec benchmarks that, for some reason, put Compaq ahead of >>>Sun.  >>>s >>>y >>C >>I think you missed the point, to my knowledge there isn't anotherrC >>organistation that measures the capacity of HPC systems installeda >>worldwide. >>H >>If you don't like top500.org then there isn't to my knowledge anything >>else.: >> > ? > Wow, you really are dense.  I didn't question HPC results.  IiD > questioned how you embrace only the benchmarks that you feel showsG > your company in the proper light.  You eschew SPEC - though IIRC, you H > used to bring it up very regularly in here - which doesn't show Sun in9 > such good measure.  Yet somehow Linpack is okay by you.o >     0 Have you not realised that when you accuse me of/ being something or another you have in the past . and in this case described with great accuracy your onw problem.k  , The top500 list is the only one currently in, existance, the fact that it uses Linpack may+ not be to my or your liking but it is to myW0 knowledge that only list of HPC system installed
 worldwide.  1 No one has attempted to do this using SPEC of any  other benchmark.    4 And do you know how the top500 list is constructed??  6 Aparently not or you would have shut up some time ago.  6 Vendors, Sun, IBM, Compaq, SGI etc get their customers4 to put their names forward. Vendors are also allowed9 to submit internal systems in their benchmark centers andr% test labs, you Compaq have done this.o  7 So as I said earlier I am not a huge fan of Linpack butb: your own HPC team seem happy enough with the measure being9 used to bother submitting their own systems to the ownersC: of the list. They have also bothered to run Linpack on the1 systems to get the results required to rank them.r  0 Please please think a bit harder before posting.   <snip>3 I have removed the rest of your posting to save you  further embarassment.n     RegardsW   Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:40:41 -0700b& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybeo, Message-ID: <3CB6F1E9.9060009@gregcagle.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:     > 2 > Have you not realised that when you accuse me of1 > being something or another you have in the past10 > and in this case described with great accuracy > your onw problem.     1 You know, my five year old behaves this same way.n    0 BTW, Andrew, you forgot to mention who is number  - two on the top500 list, after IBM. Hint: it'st not Sun.    i   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:51:10 +0100oT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe $ Message-ID: <3CB7026E.80500@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:43:59 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:c >  >  > E >>Note that the Sun's in the top500 list are mostly larger systems ascG >>are the HP's. Where are the GS boxes ? They aren't there because theye( >>are too big, to expensive and to slow. >> >> > E > See now.  There is NO WAY you would have any information to explainhD > why these systems aren't in this list.  You take one little fact -A > that they aren't there - and you use it to fabricate this whole00 > *opinion* that you then post as if it is fact. >      So what is your explanation.  = They are expensive, slow, big and hot was this the reason forh* their absence or is it some other reason ?    F >>And this is a characteristic which is also evident in the commercialC >>server space. The GS series are to big, to expensive and to slow.nB >>Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, even Rob hasB >>stopped trying to defend GS performance prefering to try to hype
 >>futures. >> >> > B > Well Andrew, you must believe that if you repeat something oftenH > enough people will just believe you.  Once again, though, I'm going toG > request to see this evidence as proof for your assertions above.  Nots" > sure how you'll do that, though. >      Where would you like to start.  7 TPC-H, slow and expensive remember TPC-H measures price 7 as well as performance and for example the the best SMPf6 system in the 300 GB category where you have published6 GS320 results is the IBM NUMA-Q its 50% faster and 2/3 the cost per transaction.   7 You havn't done the bigger TPC-H numbers (why) but justu4 as a data point the F15000 does 3.8 x the throughput at 1/3 the price.   8 TPC-C, Slow expensive again remember TPC-C also measures5 both, Fujitsu 2 x the performance at 2/3 the cost. HP  1.7 x faster 1/2 the price.w  9 SAP SD 2 tier slower than Sun and IBM on a per CPU basis. 5 SAP don't measure cost but given the fact that the GSy7 isn't price competitive for the other results this does  not bode well for you.  ; Oracle applications standard benchmark, GS320 is 25% slowerS9 than a 24 CPU Sun F6800 and is also slower than an 24 CPUi	 IBM P680.w  ; These are the commercial type benchmarks you have publishedn- for the boxes, no SPECJBB for example either.   4 Size, the GS320 covers a larger floor area  than the3 F15000 for example but delivers 1/3 the throughput.V  . Heat the GS320 pushes out 70% of the heat of a- fully loaded F15000 but the F15000 is 3 x thei. capacity. Compare the GS320 with a F6800 which+ is equivalent, the F6800 pushes out 1/2 thev heat.a  ) So big, slow, hot all of these claims are ) covered. Unless you are looking for a bigf- space heater there is little to recommend the- box.  6 So I would suggest that unless you can find publically9 available benchmark results that are counter to this that  you put up or shut up.  7 You claim that I am banging on about this without proofs9 when in fact it is you who are trying to defend my claims 6 (backed up by benchmark results and your product data). without having anything to defend your stance.  0 As I said earlier it is a scam for you to try to/ claim that GS boxes are performance leaders forS- commercial apps if you don't have anything tot, back you claims up. If there were no results0 then you could of course wriggle out of this but0 all the available benchmark results published by2 your benchmark teams prove my point and not yours.    C > I can tell you that I've seen hundreds of $millions of dollars insE > sales of GS-series systems over the last few months.  And get this:uG > I'm not in sales!!!  So surely what I do read/hear about is only parte > of the total.  > G > So, I'm really curious what inforamtion you use to decide that it "iso/ > also evident in the commercial server space."- >     ? Your benchmark results and your product data as I said earlier.0    3 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqe/ > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n >    Regards  Andrew Harrison2   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:52:56 GMT6+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>n Subject: Re: Apache on OpenVMS9 Message-ID: <YEBt8.15$cp5.298139@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>g  K Apache on OpenVMS (as bundled in Compaq Secure Web Server) does not support1 FastCGI.  J CSWS supports standard CGI is provided for compatibility with existing CGIB scripts along with mod_perl (persistent Perl interpreter), mod_phpE (persistent PHP interpreter), and mod_jk (servlet connector to Tomcatw servlet/JSP container).n  
 Rick Barry) Compaq Secure Web Server Development Team  OpenVMS Systems Software Group Compaq Computer Corporationc
 Nashua, NH  2 "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:3cb4402e$1@news.post.ch...e > Hello, >h7 > which version of the Web Server will support FastCGI?h >e > best regards >a > Jakobf >e# > Mail ReplyTo: erber@tiscalinet.cht >u >b > --K > What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion C > and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyr >  >- >s >i   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 08:15:18 -07006 From: mgattaura@collins-stewart.com (Mandeep Gattaura)2 Subject: ASCII to Postscript Convertor for VAX/VMS= Message-ID: <781290e2.0204120715.25d9d4df@posting.google.com>.  F Does anyone out there know of a command line utility that will convertA a plain ascii file to postscript format, that will allow the font C size, orientation, etc to be selected. I have tried the CONVERT/DOC"F command but the font size is to big, I can manually edit the font size7 manually but I need to be able to automate the process.h  F I have tried a couple of freeware convertors, but that have not reallyE done the job. I have tried to add the postscript commands myself, buteF cannot get the output into landscape format correctly. The page prints2 landscape - but most of the data is missing.......     %!PS-Adobe-3.0 %%BeginSetup /inch       { 72 mul } def% /Courier findfont 8 scalefont setfonts /topmargin  { 1.5 inch } def /leftmargin { 1.5 inch } def) /leading    { 1 6 div inch .980 mul } defuE /newline    { /ypos ypos leading sub def leftmargin ypos moveto } def7F /newpage    { /ypos topmargin leading sub def leftmargin ypos moveto } defs
 %%EndSetup newpage  () show newline/4 (    CLIENT NO.  DEPOT NO.   SEDOL NO.) show newline4 (    ----------  ---------   ---------) show newline () show newlinee0 (76378       40081       0213154  ) show newline () show newline 0 (76947       40081       0213154  ) show newline () show newlinec () show newlineo () showpagef      2 Please, can anyone point me in the write direction   TIAe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:40:19 GMTl- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley).6 Subject: Re: ASCII to Postscript Convertor for VAX/VMS1 Message-ID: <3cb6ff63.255601315@news.process.com>-  O On 12 Apr 2002 08:15:18 -0700, mgattaura@collins-stewart.com (Mandeep Gattaura)g wrote:  G >Does anyone out there know of a command line utility that will convertc) >a plain ascii file to postscript format,0   Have you tried a2ps?   a2ps.zip3     Description: ASCII text to PostScript converter      Version: V4.0, 22-MAY-1998     Author: Variouso     Architecture: VAX,AXP      Size: 172 blocks     Language: Ct     URL:
     Released:0   http://www.process.com/openvms/l  4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/a2ps.zip9 http://ftp.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/a2ps.zip,   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/g8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:44:48 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e6 Subject: Re: ASCII to Postscript Convertor for VAX/VMS, Message-ID: <3CB70EFD.99DAB08F@videotron.ca>   Mandeep Gattaura wrote:	E > size, orientation, etc to be selected. I have tried the CONVERT/DOC5H > command but the font size is to big, I can manually edit the font size9 > manually but I need to be able to automate the process.a  1 look at SYS$EXAMPLES:example_write_ps.cda$optionss  N Not sure about the font though, but I think that if you print landscape it may do something about it.  G > done the job. I have tried to add the postscript commands myself, butsH > cannot get the output into landscape format correctly. The page prints4 > landscape - but most of the data is missing.......  ; to print landscape: (assuming letter size paper of 612 792)    -90 rotate -792 0 translate*   inside of your postscript code.a  M After the rotation, the origin happens to be at the lower right corner of theuQ page. The translate moves it "left" by 792 to bring it back to lower left corner.h  I After the translate, you page is no longer 612 792, but rather 792 * 612.e  N I am not sure how DCPS works to convert text to postscript, but you might wantM to trace the output sent to a printer to see how it does it. I recall that anoL older product had a nice ansi interpreter in the prologue that read the textK data after it to process it.  (i.e. the conversion was done in the printer,l not on the CPU).  K There are a fair number of such interpreters around though, and it woudl be M quite easy for you to modify it to print with the right font/orientation, andeI then just feed it ascii text. The interpreter can then do the page breaksM automatically etc etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:07:21 +10008= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu> 2 Subject: Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written" Message-ID: <rit59a.p2e.ln@really>  ) "Gijs" <Gijs@nospam.com> wrote in message.- news:r0%s8.79635$oI.6433580@zwoll1.home.nl... B > When was it, what does it do for you and whe can it be obtained?  K I wrote a few of 'em a few years ago when I managing a VAX cluster that waslH also the contingency cluster for failing the production systems over to.K The procedures took a snapshot of the HSJnn configurations, about 60 of 'em L IIRC, and created command procedures to restore that config. A procedure wasL also created to restore all disks (around 7tb)  from backup distributed overI 5 DLT stackers and create shadow sets etc.. These files were in the firstDH save set on every backup every night. Each cluster had a means to boot aL minimal system to get the process started. Once it got started all we had toI do was to kick back for a day and a half, reboot the cluster and call the K users to tell 'em to have at it. ( and hope and pray that the other cluster E didn't come back online with the same IP and DECnet addresses...:-) )h  I This one, however..... It takes either a Phase V decnet node name, decnet-L address or any DECnet assigned MAC address and gives you the DECnet address.H This was actually VERY usefull at one stage when I was involved in a BIGF network re-org. I only hang onto it for novelty value now though...:-)     Ooroo 	 Mark F...    $       ov = f$verify()  $       if p3 .nes. ""% $       then verify = f$verify("yes") $ $       else verify = f$verify("no")
 $       endifa" $       ws = "write sys$output   "L $       if (f$locate("00-04", p1) .eq. f$length(p1)) .and. (f$locate("0004", p1) .eq. f$len(p1))i $       then; $               pipe mc ncl sho node 'p1' all attr | sear -"8                 sys$input "aa-00-04",network/mat=and | -4                 (read sys$input z ; define/job z &z)J $               b = f$elem(3,":",f$trn("z")) - "-" - "-" - "-" - "-" - "-"6 $               ws "b = ", b, "      z = ", f$trn("z") $               deass/job z2 $       else4 $               b = p1 - "-" - "-" - "-" - "-" - "-"
 $       endifh3 $       ws  f$fao("!/DECnet address is !UL.!UL!/",-O                 (f$fao("!UL",--                 f$integer(%x'f$fao("!2(AS)",-r4                 f$extr(2,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)),-D                 f$extr(0,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)))))-(f$fao("!UL",--                 f$integer(%x'f$fao("!2(AS)",- 4                 f$extr(2,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)),-E                 f$extr(0,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)))))-((f$fao("!UL",- -                 f$integer(%x'f$fao("!2(AS)",-r4                 f$extr(2,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)),-J                 f$extr(0,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)))))/1024)*1024)))/1024,-                 f$fao("!UL",-t-                 f$integer(%x'f$fao("!2(AS)",--4                 f$extr(2,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)),-9                 f$extr(0,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)))))-((-h                 f$fao("!UL",-R-                 f$integer(%x'f$fao("!2(AS)",- 4                 f$extr(2,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)),-B                 f$extr(0,2,f$extr(f$len(b)-4,4,b)))))/1024)*1024))" $       exitt 1 + 0 * f$verify(ov)   >h > Just curious >o > G. >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 05:14:41 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)2 Subject: Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0204120414.509d2cd2@posting.google.com>w  Y "Gijs" <Gijs@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<pSjt8.86095$oI.6759529@zwoll1.home.nl>...kJ > But the remark stands and Paul and his mentioned book should be on every  > ones shelf who is into VMS/Dcl  D Why should Paul be on everyone's shelf? And how would you accomplish/ that? I guess you'd have to mass clone him. :-)h   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:30:59 -0400t From: William_Bochnik@acml.com2 Subject: Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written> Message-ID: <OFAA34ED64.F06AFF70-ON85256B99.004F3D23@acml.com>  A hmm, in the 10 years that I did the VMS gig as sysadmin, a coupleP stand out in my mind> 1 - a combination DCL/Allin1 script for compiling Allin1 code,< and reloading the memory version of the code across a 3 node cluster A 2 - automated upload/download DCL/Kermit/Allin1 to allow users to < transfer Wordperfect/Lotus 123 docs bet. their pc and Allin19 3 - systartup_v5.com/systartup_vms.com optimizations with A syncronizations and error output - got the boot process down froma  something like 25 min to about 6@ 4 - took code that once used decnet's copy/submit and rewrote as3 ftp/rsh when decnet was going away from our networke   I'm sure there are more...      [                                                                                            o[                       Gijs                                                                 u[                       <Gijs@nospam.com                To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com           ,[                       >                               cc:                                   [                                                Subject: Best DCL programm you've ever      o[                       04/10/2002 01:56         written                                     i[                       PM                                                                   .[                       Please respond                                                       h[                       to Gijs                                                              f[                       <Gijs@nospam.com                                                     -[                       >                                                                    r[                                                                                            E[                                                                                            r      @ When was it, what does it do for you and whe can it be obtained?   Just curious   G.            F ______________________________________________________________________;  The information contained in this transmission may containr@ privileged and confidential information and is intended only forA the use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intendede= recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 3 this message to the intended recipient, any review,s@ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication? is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient,0A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy9# all copies of the original message.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:26:20 -0600>> From: "Russell P. Holsclaw" <rholsclaw@nospam.xxx.fatline.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures1 Message-ID: <f2Dt8.417$rB5.31691@news.uswest.net>   E > You're confusing paging with paged VM with paging to disk.  Even inAF > the limit where the price of memory is 0, we'll still want to have aG > distinction between a process's logical space and physical addresses;dG > we'll want to be able to start every program at address 0 rather thanfE > having ugly relocatable-code kluges, we'll want controllable sharedeE > memory between processes, we'll want to be able to protect our codemH > from being overwritten by accident...  you're going to have to presentE > a better model for all this than paging before paging will go away.i  ' Then I didn't express myself very well.w  B I believe what you're really saying here is that although swappingB short-lived data between RAM and disk may die out, dynamic address9 translation will continue, because of its other benefits.t  J I agree. No argument there. The term "virtual memory" itself, however, wasK clearly coined with reference to the advantage that it enjoyed in the earlyuF '70s, of making a computer appear to have more memory than it actuallyJ had -- "virtual memory" vs. "real memory". The term will stay around for aJ long time, because it was coined in another era, and linguistic habits areH hard to break. But what you're really talking about are addressing modesI that promote isolation among processes and eliminate the need for address(H relocation after program loading. These are a by-product of the "virtualD memory" concept that will survive as you say, because of their other advantages.u  F I never meant to imply that magnetic media (or some form of persistentL storage) were not needed. They will always be with us for obvious reasons. IJ was just suggesting that we would see the disappearance of the use of suchJ media for data that doesn't require long-term persistence. Someday the bigJ "swap file" full of non-persistent data will be seen as an anachronism. ItK only exists today because once it was prohibitively expensive to have a loty; of RAM, and much cheaper to have the same capacity in disk.h   -- Russ   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2002 16:06:32 GMT  From: hack@watson.ibm.com (hack)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures+ Message-ID: <a970m8$no6$1@news.btv.ibm.com>   - In article <a94vsb$77m@web.eng.baileynm.com>,i' Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:0 >sN >The process of abandoning a connection involves an exchange of messages.  ...  H That deals with "willful abandonment".  What if A crashes, in which caseI after reboot it may not remember that it had an active connection with B?i  J Surely the protocol does not require that all active connections be loggedH to persistent storage, so they can be closed properly after reboot?  AndH even if this is a (perhaps implied) requirement, how many systems do so?   Michel.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:11:15 GMTs+ From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>l  Subject: Re: Blade architectures) Message-ID: <u3cy06dwl.fsf@earthlink.net>h  - Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:r >oA > the technique has been used for transient snap-shots as well as A > mechanism implementing process migration (between processes note > sharing memory). r  E CP/67-based & VM/370-based service bureaus starting (at least) in theiD early '70s used the technique to implement process migration betweenE different processors in the same data center/cluster (that had sharedyF disks) as well between waltham and san francisco data centers (aka theE pages were transferred as a file from one page system in waltham to a ? page system in san francisco). Initially this technique was for F scheduled maintenance scenario in 7x24 oepration with online customers world-wide.d   random refs:/ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#14 Galaxiesr0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#10 IBM S/360D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#64 distributed locking patentsN http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#9 Checkpointing (was spice on clusters)k http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#49 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions a http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#15 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...]dI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#89 database (or b-tree) page sizes 9 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#20 VM-CMS emulatori< http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#52 Compaq kills AlphaI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#51 Author seeks help - net in 1981H1 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#55 TSS/360a^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#36 windows XP and HAL: The CP/M way still works in 2002   -- CH Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:00:30 GMT + From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>n  Subject: Re: Blade architectures) Message-ID: <u7knc6eei.fsf@earthlink.net>-  @ "Russell P. Holsclaw" <rholsclaw@nospam.xxx.fatline.com> writes:H > I never meant to imply that magnetic media (or some form of persistentN > storage) were not needed. They will always be with us for obvious reasons. IL > was just suggesting that we would see the disappearance of the use of suchL > media for data that doesn't require long-term persistence. Someday the bigL > "swap file" full of non-persistent data will be seen as an anachronism. ItM > only exists today because once it was prohibitively expensive to have a loto= > of RAM, and much cheaper to have the same capacity in disk.f  D note that various persistent storage virtual memory mapping has beenD done also (aka mmap) which includes both executable as well as data.  ? the technique has been used for transient snap-shots as well ast? mechanism implementing process migration (between processes not  sharing memory). l  B A form of the transient snap-shots is effectively what is going onF today when a machine boots up and loads and initializes a large number@ of applications ... frequently, in aggregate requiring more real= memory than available ... but never executing simultaneously.e  9 there is a trade-off between utilizing traditional pagingeE infrastructure for this fast pre-initializing operation ... vis-a-vis-? rewriting applications to be "fast-start". Of course, having to3> single-page-fault such a fast-start application can offset theA benefits from using the page mapping system ... so something more A efficient than single (small, 4k) page fault operation is needed.n     -- eH Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:21:00 -0400:; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>3! Subject: Re: CLD problem (flight)-$ Message-ID: <3cb709d9$1@news.si.com>  % >What version of VMS are you running?u  5 OpenVMS VAX V7.2, but what difference does that make?l   >$ set comm flight.cld >$ flight /comp=worldlC >%DCL-I-IGNQUAL, qualifiers appearing before this item were ignoredc >\WORLD\ >_World Description Filename:e  A OK, OK, so I get that, too.  I made the claim because I looked inc FLIGHT.CLD, saw    DEFINE VERB FLIGHT    IMAGE FLT$SIMULATOR=    QUALIFIER COMPILE, VALUE(REQUIRED, TYPE=FLT$COMPILE_TYPES)t  = and thought that seems to match your suggestion.  There is noc       qualifier COMPILEe  J as you claim there to be.  So, in my mind, the version of the CLD you wereD examining did not appear to correspond to the one in the FLIGHT kit. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com-A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventC< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:51:22 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>t! Subject: Re: CLD problem (flight)e3 Message-ID: <zgEt8.15702$je5.151368@nnrp1.uunet.ca>$  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3cb709d9$1@news.si.com... >...L > as you claim there to be.  So, in my mind, the version of the CLD you wereF > examining did not appear to correspond to the one in the FLIGHT kit. >...  J Ah, I see, I was working on the .CLD that the VERB command produced rather+ than the .CLD that was included in the kit.z  L Based on some private e-mail I gather that the bug has been in the .CLD fromK the beggining, but few people used the particular command that JF was usingo so it was never fixed.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:24:16 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c! Subject: Re: CLD problem (flight)i, Message-ID: <3CB7183A.866048A1@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:L > as you claim there to be.  So, in my mind, the version of the CLD you wereF > examining did not appear to correspond to the one in the FLIGHT kit.  L The version of the CLD I posted was generated by VERB. Perhaps this explains the discrepancy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:47:08 -0400a; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r! Subject: Re: CLD problem (flight)m$ Message-ID: <3cb71e09$1@news.si.com>   >At line three change; >    qualifier COMPILE >tou- >    qualifier COMPILE, syntax=flt$do_compilea >>/ >At line 24 (or there abouts) add in the lines;e! >    define syntax flt$do_compilem >        qualifier COMPILE0 >        value (required,type=FLT$COMPILE_TYPES) > % >SET COMMAND FLIGHT and try it again.   G I really don't see how the /COMPILE qualifier is any different than thegB /EDIT qualifier.  Yet, /EDIT=WORLD doesn't produce the error while /COMPILE=WORLD does.  L Could you post more of a context for your modified CLD?  I can't get this to work.o --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:20:01 +0200 / From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>a* Subject: Re: confusing >>> Show Dev Output/ Message-ID: <a971er$763$02$1@news.t-online.com>    Hi!o  H You can try letting the system powered on for about 5 minutes in the >>> prompt.DE I have the same Problem on my AlphaServer 400 4/233 (Termination etc.a OK).H I just power the Alpha on, go for a cup of coffee, and then every device
 showed up.  , Let me know whether this solved the Problem. Greetings - Freddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:34:42 +0200$5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de> H Subject: RE: connecting UPS to VAX serial port (disabling logins on TXA). Message-ID: <E16vxS6-0003TF-00@mailer.gwdg.de>  0 Marcin Szczecinski <marcin@LODZ.TPSA.PL> writes:G > I have "intelligent" UPS connected to serial port (CXY08) of VAX (VMSnF > 5.5.2H4) so by issuing SET HOST /DTE TXAn i can connect to UPS, send" > command and read status message. >[...]L > I have tried to disable interactive logins on this serial line by SET TERM > /NOTYPE (VMS faq MGMT40.).F > After this, messages from UPS are ignored (great!) but i am not ableK > to get correct answers for my status querries - all i can see is garbage.sJ > It seems that terminal port without TYPEAHEAD buffer enabled is dropping8 > many incoming characters during SET HOST /DTE session. >[...]   You disable logins by$  * 	$ SET TERMINAL/PERMANENT/NOTYPEAHEAD txa0  1 In order to *use* the terminal (temporarily), you    	$ ALLOCATE txa01 	$ SET TERMINAL/TYPEAHEAD txa0	! *not* /PERMANENT$ 	... access terminal ... 	$ DEALLOCATE txa0  F As long as the terminal is ALLOCATEd, login attempts are not possible.  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de4M GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!$M http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:45:38 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>)9 Subject: Re: determine display server number for SSH X11? $ Message-ID: <3cb7018f$1@news.si.com>  A >   How can I determine the X11 server number for a SSH forwardedh >   connection?   4 Let Exceed send it on the command line with @a or @d -- 2A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comdA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comD= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent<< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 11:54:05 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n9 Subject: Re: determine display server number for SSH X11?s3 Message-ID: <kKHAJlyA4D8A@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3cb7018f$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:B >>   How can I determine the X11 server number for a SSH forwarded >>   connection? > 6 > Let Exceed send it on the command line with @a or @d  C    I'm neither a Windows nor an Exceed expert.  Where do I gfet the,    details.t   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2002 16:24:01 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)h" Subject: DRAS and no Service-Type?0 Message-ID: <a971n1$4g3$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  K here we run DRAS 2.3a from Digital together with a DNAS and a DECserver700.uJ Now I would like to create a user in DRAS without a "Service_Type". I have7 done that in the past but cannot remember how. I tried: @   MODIFY USER name/SERVICE             ! Results in "NAS Prompt"H                   /NOSERVICE           ! accepted command with no effect6                   /SERVICE=NO...       ! error message Thus, any ideas?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann                    H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:16:40 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) $ Subject: Re: EWA-bootdriver messages0 Message-ID: <a961ko$jem$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  a In article <a95sft$jm5u$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>, "Rainer Giese" <giese@volkswerft.de> writes: ' >> Is the system's firmware up to date?  > J >Now it is, and the number of messages have reduced to the half. But still >more than necessary. H >And : how to find someone, who runs through the company to all DPWs ? I >guess I'll be that.  N What about a firmware-upgrade via BOOTP or MOP? And there was a thread in thisK newsgroup describing how to set console variables either via a C-command oro= via the undocumented command SET CONSOLE/ENVIRONMENT command.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann_  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:49:11 GMTe% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>l Subject: Re: Fibre Channel8 Message-ID: <6d7ebuspb9u6guvhe90n0ls6vkdhu0ik97@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:45:27 GMT, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:o     >j? >Compatability between Fibre Channel devices is just as bad as wE >compatability between SCSI devices.  As the specifications get more o< >standardized interoperability will get probably get better. >l  9 Hahahahahahahahahahahah .... Erm... tee hee hee... <gasp>i	 <chuckle>n  4 Sorry, he just said "standard" in reference to SCSI. ;-)y  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:40:37 +0200m9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h5 Subject: Re: Give us your Apache 1.3/2.0 requirementsn' Message-ID: <3CB6E3D5.CF0A35C3@aaa.com>d  * What about a native Rdb SQL/Services API ?, So you don't have to go through OCI/SQL*net.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Rick Barry wrote:d > L > To help us deliver the most useful features, we need your feedback. I hopeM > you can spare a few seconds to prioritize the following list of items alonge > with any others you may have.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:35:44 GMTo+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>uY Subject: Give us your Apache 1.3/2.0 requirements  [Was: RE: Talk about quick response, r,9 Message-ID: <QoBt8.12$Qo5.277656@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>s  % Apache 2.0 is certainly in the plans.l  F The Apache Software Foundation announced it's first "production grade"I release (Apache 2.0.35) late last week. While it's stable enough for somehH production environments, it's being shaken out just like any other first? release. The Apache 1.3.* base is extremely mature and a lot ofoH infrastructure (third-party modules) has grown around it that users will  expect to work under Apache 2.0.  L We're still adding infrastructure to the Apache 1.3.* based CSWS product andL will be for some time. We get requests for new modules and extensions to oldL ones on a regular basis, so we need to prioritize development on mature baseA requirements against requirements for bleeding-edge capabilities.l  J To help us deliver the most useful features, we need your feedback. I hopeK you can spare a few seconds to prioritize the following list of items along  with any others you may have..    Apache 1.3.*  (latest baselevel) Apache 2.0.* PHP  4.1.* (latest baselevel)b PHP ODBC database extension9- PHP OCI (Oracle Interface) database extensiona PHP mysql database extension PHP extenions - please specify Perl 5.6.* (latest baselevel)o  Perl extensions - please specify Python Tomcat 3.3.* (latest baselevel)e  Tomcat 4.0.*  (latest baselevel)+ webDAV (distributed authoring & versioning)t IPv6 support  ) Feel free to post here or send me e-mail.l  
 Rick Barry) Compaq Secure Web Server Development Team  OpenVMS Systems Software Group Compaq Computer Corporationi
 Nashua, NH  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message % news:a91kdn$p0a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...-G > In article <a91i8g$un2bc$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling"l <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:BE > >I got this message while I was typing up my recent query/complaint&	 regardinge > >open source tools on VMS. > > C > >Jim, yes, unfortunately we are about a year out of date with thee	 Xalan-C++l > >XSLT component. > >nI > >The good news is that we have engineers assigned to XML, SOAP, and WebdK > >Services. The bad news is that right now we are porting the SOAP toolkitoJ > >from Apache. Updating the C++ and Java Xerces and Xalan components will beJ > >next followed by UDDI. I suspect the availability for Xalan-C++ is late Mayt > >or early June.  > >  >eG > Are the Engineers working on Apache 2.0 (released earlier this Month)  whichf) > now supports threads ? And Tomcat 4.0 ?  >c > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >i   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:46:03 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)3& Subject: Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings3 Message-ID: <9jp7O2ntlk9$@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  K In article <a953j3$odc$1@tomm.stsci.edu>, clark@sander.stsci.edu () writes:o > 5 > Can GNU gcc generate source code listings like thatt > of VMS CC /list/show=include?p >   E    GNU may mean "gnu's not UNIX", but it is heavily influenced toward     brain deadness.  E    The only UNIX I've seen which had a compiler with listings is AIX. F    IBM didn't miss that one.  Even DEC shipped compilers on UNIX which	    don't.l  @    Sometimes you can get what you need from an intermediate fileC    (preprocessed, but not compiled) or an assembly file output fromlD    the compiler (compiled to instruciton mnemonics instead of binaryD    opcodes).  Most UNIX C compilers have these options, I think I've    used them on GNU, too..   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:11:35 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) & Subject: Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0204120611.6f440b63@posting.google.com>r  U system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A0C521.FD39655B@SendSpamHere.ORG>...ee > In article <fKYKMPbPCaRD@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: N > >In article <a953j3$odc$1@tomm.stsci.edu>, clark@sander.stsci.edu () writes: > >> i8 > >> Can GNU gcc generate source code listings like that" > >> of VMS CC /list/show=include? > >y > >...  E > It's always easier to make up some lame excuse for not implementingmF > a feature in a lame product than it is to actually code the feature.  E With the speed and memory available today, I have worked places wherekA we turn on DEBUG, TRACEBACK, and disable OPTIMIZATION for code inaB production (speed and size is no longer a consideration).  When anD error occurs we get the traceback dump and correclate it directly to1 the .LIS file.  Makes resolving some bugs easier.e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 11:08:37 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings3 Message-ID: <FjTEN36z4Q7v@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  m In article <9059bf6b.0204120611.6f440b63@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:aW > system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A0C521.FD39655B@SendSpamHere.ORG>...lf >> In article <fKYKMPbPCaRD@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:O >> >In article <a953j3$odc$1@tomm.stsci.edu>, clark@sander.stsci.edu () writes:  >> >> 9 >> >> Can GNU gcc generate source code listings like thats# >> >> of VMS CC /list/show=include?d >> > >> >... F >> It's always easier to make up some lame excuse for not implementingG >> a feature in a lame product than it is to actually code the feature.0 > G > With the speed and memory available today, I have worked places where:C > we turn on DEBUG, TRACEBACK, and disable OPTIMIZATION for code in D > production (speed and size is no longer a consideration).  When anF > error occurs we get the traceback dump and correclate it directly to3 > the .LIS file.  Makes resolving some bugs easier.m  C But GCC does not produce VMS object code.  It produces Macro sourceIC code.  On Alpha that means optimizations made by the Macro compileraB would not be visible to GCC, so traceback dump analysis would have0 to be based on the listings from Macro, not GCC.  @ Perhaps that is why GCC folks are so convinced that listings are2 the wave of the past -- their design can't do it !   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2002 11:43:10 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>-3 Subject: Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.r* Message-ID: <a96h8e$8t4$1@news1.Radix.Net>  4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:B > You implement the extension, and submit it to x.org and xfree86.  D for the former (a waste of time), for the latter, I'm able to commit! my changes, so it's a moot point.-  M > The DRCS stuff would then work if the extension is present, and not work ifWM > it isn't.  The user can either build the extension for his current XServer,DM > or pick it up in the next release.  The alternative is to manage the "font"tL > and "text" drawing yourself on the client side.  And while I will tell youN > that it will work reasonably well, because I did something similar for UISX,! > it's a lot of complex new code.d  G I'm aware of that (as I said, it's been on my list a while).  Ideas areD more plentiful than time.u  $ > Thomas Dickey wrote in message ...6 >>Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >>J >>> I would suggest a better solution would be to implement a downloadable > fontE >>> extension.  This would allow you to download a font to the serverv > on-the-fly >>H >>but then you have to modify the X server (a lot more work for users to >>build/install).  >> >>--? >>Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>- >>http://dickey.his.com  >>ftp://dickey.his.com       -- i= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>g http://dickey.his.com1 ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:19:14 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>rO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxa6 Message-ID: <20020412071914.31070.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:n   <snip>  < >No you do it, you claim to have the high ground technically9 >come up with an example of where you have doen this from # >deja of to put it bluntly shut up.i  J Just when was the last time you did any research into past Usenet posting?E The archive is no longer called deja, it is owned by google and is atMJ http://groups.google.com. As far as my memory serves me, I've *never* seenI you cite a usenet posting other than in the most vague of terms, not onceaI do I recall you posting a URL to deja or google which backs up the claimst	 you make.i     Doc. -- R6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:20:28 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxp& Message-ID: <3CB6B4EC.5070605@sun.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:-  8 > On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:: >  > <snip> > = >>No you do it, you claim to have the high ground technicallym: >>come up with an example of where you have doen this from$ >>deja of to put it bluntly shut up. >> > L > Just when was the last time you did any research into past Usenet posting?G > The archive is no longer called deja, it is owned by google and is atuL > http://groups.google.com. As far as my memory serves me, I've *never* seenK > you cite a usenet posting other than in the most vague of terms, not onceGK > do I recall you posting a URL to deja or google which backs up the claimso > you make.o >     9 It was called dejanews, google bought it and www.deja.com." redirects you to groups.google.com  9 Since the origional service was operated as dejanews mostd people still know it as that.(  2 Seems a rather ludicrous point to be making but if/ it keeps you active and fit then don't hesitate & to post this kind of correction again.   Regardst Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 13:01:19 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>gO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxs5 Message-ID: <20020412130119.6875.qmail@gacracker.org>   6 On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:T >Doc.Cypher wrote: >E9 >> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 >> <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >> o	 >> <snip>N >> .> >>>No you do it, you claim to have the high ground technically; >>>come up with an example of where you have doen this froma% >>>deja of to put it bluntly shut up.5 >>>o >> @M >> Just when was the last time you did any research into past Usenet posting?:H >> The archive is no longer called deja, it is owned by google and is atM >> http://groups.google.com. As far as my memory serves me, I've *never* seenpL >> you cite a usenet posting other than in the most vague of terms, not onceL >> do I recall you posting a URL to deja or google which backs up the claims >> you make. >> s >o > : >It was called dejanews, google bought it and www.deja.com# >redirects you to groups.google.come   That's pretty much what I said.   : >Since the origional service was operated as dejanews most >people still know it as that.  I Funny that the only place on usenet I see references to it as deja are by : you and a shrinking number of people you debate with here.  3 >Seems a rather ludicrous point to be making but ifi0 >it keeps you active and fit then don't hesitate' >to post this kind of correction again.2  I The correction wasn't the important part, the question was. Of course, asjJ per usual, you didn't answer the question. I've now done a little researchK into the google archive and it would appear that you have *never* backed upaK an argument with a cite from deja (as it was) or google (as it now is). So,rJ perhaps you'll refrain from telling others to do what you don't seem to beJ able, or willing, to do yourself. If you debate without giving references, why shouldn't others?      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:29:28 +0100.T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxe" Message-ID: <3CB6E138.508@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  
 > Andrew - >  > E >>>>If you want rude just contemplate what your customers think about  >>>>J > you. Your memory is short if you have forgotten Alphacide Compaction andF > all the other things that have been done to shaft your customers.<<< > H > And do you think Sun's decision to kill Solaris on all 32bit and 64bit> > Intel servers was received with great joy by your Customers? >      No  8 However your customers and Sun's will all understand the3 difference between EOLing a product that is free toa9 download and EOLing a product which you charged customers 9 billions of dollars for and for which you were projecting I glowing things and a long term future the day before the EOL announcment.e  4 Solaris x86 is in the first category Alpha is in the5 second, if you cannot work out the difference betweenp6 the two events then I am sorry for you. Your customers) are also sorry but for different reasons.n   regardsd   Andrew Harrison9   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:49:41 GMTe% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux.8 Message-ID: <j70ebuoven1manm8fh9uvt1a7tbk2ebegm@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:35:07 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:    >  > 
 >jlsue wrote:s >eH >> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:49:24 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >> <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:   >>> > >>>Even in this group there have been people asking how to get@ >>>their GS160/320's to go faster than the GS140's they replaced< >>>without having to use OPS. You only need to trawl through >>>deja. >>>  >>  H >> Typical Andrew tactic.  First claim that something "would require OPSD >> in a box to get half decent performance" and then only find *ONE*G >> example that you think fulfills your fantasy.  But if it's as bad as.6 >> you claim, you should be able to find so many more. >> - >- >-4 >You seem as usual not to be able to read let allone< >comprehend. I said  I am working on 1 and I know personally6 >of 2 others now just to help you out 1 + 2 = 3 not 1. >.F >if three = one in the universe you inhabite then I can now understand? >why you have been having so much difficulty in this newsgroup.d  D Oh, Right.  Can you even read your own posts?  My comment was to theA attributed paragraph from you just above it where you referenced.    You said, AND THIS IS A QUOTE:  ? 	>>>Even in this group there have been people asking how to get 8 	>>>their GS160/320's to go faster than the GS140's they
 	>>> replacedg= 	>>>without having to use OPS. You only need to trawl through 	 	>>>deja.t  D Now, that was only ONE reference to ONE posting "in this group".  IfF you recall, I DID trawl through deja/google - there was only one.  And@ it wasn't until later in your little note that you mentioned any others.  But in any case:a  3 	1.  How many do you think it takes to legally callo 	      it a big problem?  9 	2.   Why do you consistently refuse to answer any directd8 	      question, but rather take off on some nit-picking. 	      other direction than the topic at hand?   >d >o >i >Just a hint >w >1 + 2  = 3t >1 + 2 != 1  >h   Just a hint:   	READ YOUR OWN FREAKING POSTS!  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqr- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)j   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 11:04:12 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)7O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxp3 Message-ID: <5yNG1RnHIKV7@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ` In article <j70ebuoven1manm8fh9uvt1a7tbk2ebegm@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> writes:G > On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:35:07 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:n >    	Re: Andrew-   > F > Now, that was only ONE reference to ONE posting "in this group".  IfH > you recall, I DID trawl through deja/google - there was only one.  AndB > it wasn't until later in your little note that you mentioned any > others.  But in any case:o > 5 > 	1.  How many do you think it takes to legally callm > 	      it a big problem? >   8 	Ummm... when there is a large $$$ impact.  Probably not: 	a big problem for the Q.  Now maybe we want to chat a bit7 	about Zinc Whiskers and flakey cache.  That surely hadw: 	a big dollar impact (Verisign, Bell South, etc... see oldB 	Forbes for a good reference.  Online version has had Verisign andC 	other problems eluded.   I have the hard copy at home.  One of thed 	few Forbes I ever purchased).   	Online version:  7 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_2.html o  A 	Keep in mind, you have to become a member to read it (membershipl
 	is free).  ; > 	2.   Why do you consistently refuse to answer any directe: > 	      question, but rather take off on some nit-picking0 > 	      other direction than the topic at hand?  C 	This is because he is a master of mis-direction and hasn't changedpB 	much since early 1994 in Usenet.  He isn't alone.  There are manyA 	in this forum that take few chances and talk in generalities andcD 	*rarely* are clearly wrong.  Popcorn Posters.  Mostly content free.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:21:25 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>mO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxL, Message-ID: <3CB70983.C69463DD@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:: > However your customers and Sun's will all understand the5 > difference between EOLing a product that is free to+; > download and EOLing a product which you charged customersw > billions of dollars   N Andrew, the international space station alpha uses Solaris on 8086 laptops forN the station management functions that require a connection to the critical MDME computers. The windows laptops do not even have the card and softwaretR necessary to connect to that military 1553 network that runs the critical systems.  L I am curious as to what Sun thinks about support for the international space	 station ?R   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:46:09 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX& Message-ID: <3CB6BAF1.1010302@sun.com>  B So the results show that the in the 5 years between 85 and 90 what? ever performance advantage the Symbolics boxes had over generalN? purpose systems had vanished because of the ram up in the speedd@ of the general purpose machines and probably improvements in the list environments on them.   Regardsa Andrew Harrisonn   Al Kossow wrote:  J > In article <3CB6118F.4090401@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:i >  >  >>Christopher C. Stacy wrote:r >> >>A >>>>>>>>On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:08:01 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK- >>>>>>>>  > Consultancy ("Andrew") writes: > 5 >>> Andrew> I am not sure I entirely agree with you.   >>>jD >>>I was unable to decipher your newsgroup attributions above; some @ >>>of the words that looked like they were attributed to me were= >>>written by someone else.  I didn't quite follow what pointc >>>you were disagreeing with.s >>>.H >>> Andrew> The early symbolics machines were faster than the Sun, HP orB >>> Andrew> Apollo workstations running Lisp, but this performanceC >>> Andrew> advantage was very short lived as general purpose CPU'sMI >>> Andrew> increased in speed and by the time the first SPARC, HP-PA andoB >>> Andrew> MIPS based workstations came out they were faster Lisp) >>> Andrew> platforms than the Symbolics.  >>>tD >>>Do you have some benchmarks we could see that back up your claim? >>>n >>>G: >>Hell no it was a very long time ago and people generally: >>used to just say the Symbolics were faster than a Sun/HP
 >>IBM etc. >> >> > 5 > There are lots of them in the Google Usenet archivef >  > 	 > -------n > ( > Subject: Lisp comparison -- benchmarks  > Message-ID: <507@klipper.UUCP># > Date: Mon, 28-Oct-85 07:47:35 ESTe > Article-I.D.: klipper.507:" > Posted: Mon Oct 28 07:47:35 1985+ > Date-Received: Fri, 1-Nov-85 00:33:26 ESTg4 > Reply-To: biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux)) > Organization: VU Informatica, AmsterdamO > Lines: 63t > Keywords: fibonacciH >  > F > Among the many reactions I received upon my request for Lisp machineE > comparisons, there was a nice list of testresults by Ralph P. SobekaF > ( mcvax!inria!lasso!ralph ). Because many people might be interested2 > in those results, I post them for him to net.ai.F > He ran some tests on a variety of LISP workstations while he was at 2 > IJCAI-85, in Los Angeles.  Here are the results; >  > Fibonacci comparisons(1): Q > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------aG > Lisp System/Computer            Interpreted     Compiled        NotesaQ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E > Xerox 1132 (Dorado)              10.9 sec.      0.145 sec.      (2)r7 > Symbolics 3640                   10.5           0.158r6 > Lisp/VM (IBM 4381)               12.8           0.45E >    "         "                                  0.15            (3)s7 > Interlisp 370 (IBM 3083)          1.502         0.189tE > Xerox 1185/1186                  42.03          0.375           (2)y7 > Xerox 1108 (Dandelion)           41.451         0.405oI > Hewlett Packard 68020 (Common L) 18.3           < 1.            (4),(5) 6 > LMI/Zetalisp-Plus                92.78          0.53E > Macintosh/Experlisp               --            0.53            (6)hE > Sun-2 (Franz lisp)               28.51            -             (4)a6 > Sun-2 (Lucid Common Lisp)        28.00          0.58E > Texas Instruments Explorer       1 min.         < 1.            (4)o6 > Micro-Vax 2 (Vax Lisp) VMS      181.53          2.54 >  > 
 > -------- > 9 > Subject: Gabriel benchmarks, DN10000 and other machinesc6 > Keywords: Gabriel HP DN10000 TI Symbolics benchmarks > Date: 6 Mar 90 14:52:59 GMTp >  > ( >                         LISP BENCHMARK > G > Gabriel benchmarks, from SYS:EXAMPLES; on the Symbolics lisp machine.eA > All times in seconds of "clock" time, on single-user standalonexG > systems (in the case of the DN10000) or systems in which all externaltD > connections were closed and in which there was no network traffic G > involving the test machine.  All tests run with freshly booted worldstD > (in the case of the Symbolicses, these worlds were full-gc'ed and I > optimized) with only the Gabriels and a small amount of lispm-init codezG > loaded.  Ephemeral GC was *on*, Dynamic GC was *off* on all machines.  > E > Fuller descriptions of the systems are given below.  For reference:o > HP = HP DN10000, > TI = TI Explorer model II>$ > 36xx = various Symbolics machines. > H > The HP was benchmarked with (OPT) and without (NOPT) type declarations/ > and production-mode compiler optimizations.  - > K > If anyone has an explanation for why the 3650 was so slow relative to the<* > 3675 and even 3645, I'd like to hear it. > P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        NAME         HP(OPT)    HP(NOPT)    TI       3645      3675      3650 > P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        BOYER         3.442     5.006     3.483     9.309     9.311    10.423P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >       BROWSE         5.507     8.016     5.233    11.824    11.874    13.622P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >      DESTRUCT        0.373     0.654     0.517     1.372     1.367     1.522P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >    TRAVERSE-INIT     1.274     3.398      2.3      5.640     5.627     6.985P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >      TRAVERSE        7.636    21.585    18.083    32.813    32.807    37.754P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >         TAK          0.067     0.132     0.117     0.586     0.436     0.470P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        STAK          0.426     0.607     0.917     2.487     2.408     2.452P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        CTAK          0.317     0.504     0.450     5.105     5.069     5.745P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        TAKL          0.468     1.073     1.850     5.790     5.002     5.433P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        TAKR          0.092     0.164     0.117     0.574     0.491     0.523P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >        DERIV         1.003     1.058     1.400     3.462     3.470     3.670P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >       DDERIV         1.146     1.229     1.483     3.436     3.482     3.558P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >       DIV2-I         0.365     0.652     0.550     1.571     1.586     1.746P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >       DIV2-R         0.460     0.780     0.900     2.576     2.594     2.763P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >         FFT          0.353    12.426     3.767     3.515     3.520     2.560P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >       PUZZLE         1.718     9.315     3.150    12.025    12.020    15.455P >  _____________________________________________________________________________O >       TRIANG        19.999    106.162   44.367    118.199   118.843   140.498tP >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >      FRPOLY10R       0.106     0.194     0.117     0.380     0.381     0.447P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >     FRPOLY10R2       0.359     0.462     0.317     1.936     1.769     2.312P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >     FRPOLY10R3       0.166     0.268     0.233     0.422     0.369     0.443P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >      FRPOLY15R       0.702     1.372     0.90      2.530     2.535     3.002P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >     FRPOLY15R2       3.394     4.133     2.783     1.394     1.397    16.791P >  _____________________________________________________________________________N >     FRPOLY15R3       1.194     1.964     1.75      2.857     2.859     2.973P >  _____________________________________________________________________________ > O >        TOTAL        50.567    181.154   94.784    229.803   229.217   281.147o > P >  _____________________________________________________________________________ >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2002 14:43:17 -0700 From: Greg Finn <finn@isi.edu>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX( Message-ID: <6wbscpykqy.fsf@cnn.isi.edu>  2 cstacy@theworld.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:  B > >>>>> On 10 Apr 2002 23:10:26 -0700, Eric Smith ("Eric") writes:   [snip]  M >  Eric> It was intended to support a lot of things.  Lisp was one but didn'toS >  Eric> get particularly more attention from the designers than Fortran and Algol.f > ? > So say you, but Alan Kotok who designed the PDP-6 and PDP-10 u$ > with Gordon Bell says differently: > F >    "Indeed, that's me (without the R.). I was chief architect of theF >    PDP-10, many, many years ago. The architecture dated back to 1963A >    and the PDP-6, which I worked on with Gordon Bell. And, yes,h= >    facilitating a good LISP implementation was an important: >    consideration."  G He said "an", not "the".  My understanding is that there were differing L outside research groups that had influence.  Timesharing as opposed to batch@ was another example.  But this is becoming a religious argument.  D Machines designed to optimize execution of one particular high-levelI language at the detriment of others have, as a rule, failed commercially.l4 The jack of all trades has won virtually every hand.  J Yes, you can design a Lisp machine or Pascal machine, then write a FortranH compiler in Lisp or Pascal.  For that matter, you can write one in TECO.@ However, the difficulty of writing an OS and supporting suite ofB applications is so great that portability across differing machine architectures is vital.l  D Nothing necessarily prevents one from building a Lisp/Pascal/Ada ...K microprocessor.  But for it to be commercially successful, it would have toeE (1) compete cycle for cycle with other general-purpose micros and (2)  support OS/app portability.e  I This is all old hat anyway.  Most machines do little but web surf.  Today-I one should be building HTML micros.  One could then use Internet Exploderc for kernel debugging.    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2002 11:17:48 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX2 Message-ID: <a96fos$1gn6$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  ( In article <ud6x5a7dw.fsf@theworld.com>,1 Christopher C. Stacy <cstacy@theworld.com> wrote:1G >So I have some Lisp benchmarks (for square roots of numbers with 1000 nE >to 10,000 digits) in front of me showing the Symbolics machine beingu/ >at least twice as fast as the SPARCStation 1+.e  < But how did it stand up against real high performance RISCs?  J The Sparc has always been the trailing-edge RISC processor (at least until: Itanic came along :->). Where was MIPS on your benchmarks?   -- i@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:04:16 -0400- From: cstacy@grant.org (Christopher C. Stacy).  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX% Message-ID: <uhemhko7z.fsf@grant.org>o  ? >>>>> On 11 Apr 2002 14:43:17 -0700, Greg Finn ("Greg") writes: K  Greg> Machines designed to optimize execution of one particular high-levelfP  Greg> language at the detriment of others have, as a rule, failed commercially.;  Greg> The jack of all trades has won virtually every hand.   F The PDP-10 was tuned to provide good Lisp performance, but you seem toG be saying that it was also equally well tuned for other things as well.   H So please explain to me in what way, technically speaking, the SymbolicsH architecture was designed to optimize one particular high level languageF to the detriment of others.  What was the fatal flaw that prevented it8 from performing well when executing the other languages?? Then explain to me how that is what caused the company to fail.   ? I didn't start this argument, and I am willing to be convinced,yD but not by a bunch of people repeating the same unfounded assertions@ over and over again and then telling me that I'm being religous.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:42:50 -0400- From: cstacy@grant.org (Christopher C. Stacy)2  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX% Message-ID: <u3cy1kmfp.fsf@grant.org>i  ^ >>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:46:09 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ("Andrew") writes:  K  Andrew> So the results show that the in the 5 years between 85 and 90 whatoH  Andrew> ever performance advantage the Symbolics boxes had over generalH  Andrew> purpose systems had vanished because of the ram up in the speedI  Andrew> of the general purpose machines and probably improvements in thej#  Andrew> list environments on them.:  C According to the dates on those messages you're citing, a SymbolicscF machine from 1985 was first compared to conventional machines in 1985,D and won, and subsequently the same old 1985 machine was compared to E modern conventional machines of 1990, but Symbolics had already moveda9 on to a different architecture several years before that.t@ (Not sure that those benchmarks were accurately reproduced here,= though - they were clipped from multiple places and times...)   ; I'm not disagreeing that, eventually, conventional machines < outperformed the Symbolics machines in at least some, if not= all areas.  (By the way, there were five completely different 8 architectures, implemented in a variety of processes for9 dozens of different machines over the years, by the way.)a  A But nobody seems to have provided data here which shows that, andeD that's only supposed to be supporting the three-claim argument that:B the Lisp Machine was too slow doing things other than Lisp, it was: outperformed as soon as the first SPARC machine came out, 7 and that this lack of speed is what killed the company.n None of which is true.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:54:23 -0400- From: cstacy@grant.org (Christopher C. Stacy)c  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX% Message-ID: <uu1qhj7c0.fsf@grant.org>l  C >>>>> On 12 Apr 2002 11:17:48 GMT, Peter da Silva ("Peter") writes: D  Peter> But how did it stand up against real high performance RISCs?  > That question presupposes that the Lisp Machine was not a high= performance RISC.  There were five different architectures at0: Symbolics (implemented in a variety of different processes> and lots of different machines).   The only one that was never/ marketed was the high-performance RISC machine.r  @ None of that explains the compound argument being put forth that? the machines were not general-purpose, that they were only ableE9 to hold their speed advantage for Lisp for a short while,r/ and that this is what caused Symbolics to fail. # (None of which is true, of course.)    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2002 15:05:32 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX2 Message-ID: <a96t3s$1nia$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  % In article <uu1qhj7c0.fsf@grant.org>,l. Christopher C. Stacy <cstacy@grant.org> wrote:D >>>>>> On 12 Apr 2002 11:17:48 GMT, Peter da Silva ("Peter") writes:E > Peter> But how did it stand up against real high performance RISCs?,  ? >That question presupposes that the Lisp Machine was not a highc >performance RISC.  H No, it presupposes that the Sparc wasn't. But insert a judicious "other", or two in there if it makes you feel better.   -- t@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:56:51 -0600e+ From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>i  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX, Message-ID: <3CB711D3.D7161D23@jetnet.ab.ca>   "Christopher C. Stacy" wrote:_ > E > >>>>> On 12 Apr 2002 11:17:48 GMT, Peter da Silva ("Peter") writes:yF >  Peter> But how did it stand up against real high performance RISCs? > @ > That question presupposes that the Lisp Machine was not a high? > performance RISC.  There were five different architectures ata< > Symbolics (implemented in a variety of different processes@ > and lots of different machines).   The only one that was never1 > marketed was the high-performance RISC machine.  > B > None of that explains the compound argument being put forth thatA > the machines were not general-purpose, that they were only ablew; > to hold their speed advantage for Lisp for a short while,d1 > and that this is what caused Symbolics to fail.'% > (None of which is true, of course.)b  G That is one problem RISC machines look to be faster with BIG caches and C Inline code than other architectures. I expect (but never have usediG LISP) that like Forth you have a lot of jumping around of both CODE and H DATA so your CPU speed it limited by your REAL memory speed where a RISC machine by your cache speed.E http://pliant.cx/  Pliant looks to be a nice new languge for you list  lovers.h --  % Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *-+ www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.htmlc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:04:26 -0400S9 From: "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA>7; Subject: is that and error message and what does this mean?l2 Message-ID: <1018613057.549107@news.drenet.dnd.ca>  ( java$filename_controls is now set to: -1   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 08:05:12 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o? Subject: Re: is that and error message and what does this mean?a3 Message-ID: <6qoApYc0XFIT@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  n In article <1018613057.549107@news.drenet.dnd.ca>, "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> writes:* > java$filename_controls is now set to: -1  >    No, it is not an error message and it means you should readB    the release notes that shipped with the Java kit because you're=    missing some fairly usefull infomation.  These are in htmle5    but sometimes the file name does not end in .html.-  <    You can also find these release notes in the Java for VMS    web pages on Compaq's site.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:02:32 +0100 & From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles5* Message-ID: <3CB69498.BDDFF5C6@kgcc.co.uk>   Toon Moene wrote:    > Jerry Leslie wrote:I >3' > > OpenMail even supports calendaring.o >1I > Is that the feature that enables random secretaries in the organisation(C > eat away your useful working hours by planning meetings for you ?C >o% > No, thanks - I'm running a sane OS., >  > --I > Toon Moene - mailto:toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl - phoneto: +31 346 214290 8 > Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG  Maartensdijk, The NetherlandsI > Maintainer, GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.htmldG > Join GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)   , You can decide who gets to book your time...& But I agree I want to control my time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:12:14 +0100o& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles * Message-ID: <3CB696DE.E6C011FE@kgcc.co.uk>   phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu wrote:K  8 > In comp.os.vms Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote: >  >pE > > Have you ever tried educating end users? particularly management.d >nG > Yes.  Surpricingly many of this population can learn things. You havea > to speak to them though. >n  & This is back to the can/will question.  @ Most users want computers to work the way they want to use them.D They don't want to have to learn to work the way that is convienientD for the computer. Thats the difference between a good tool and a badG tool. One helps you to do your job and the other you have to help to do  it's.s   >   0 ---------------8<-------------------------------   >FQ > >> Ever heard of horror stories when someone needs to pull an importent messageS > >> from backup tapes :-) > >> >bN > > A guy I used to work for when given his first laptop connected it upto theN > > corperate email system, sucked down (and deleted) his whole email account.T > > Just after it finished there was a horrible graunching noise, and the disk driveC > > died. The IT deptartment wanted $20,000 to restore his account!_ >_D > Sounds like Exchange costs. On my un*x system it could be done for > half that amount :-) >_  B This wasn't an exchange system, it was a long time before Exchange@ was ever dreamt of (some people have some pretty bad dreams). ItC was just that the backup stratagy was designed to quickly restore a_B whole mail server, in case one died. It wasn't designed to recoverB individual messages. The only way they could do that was to find aB spare system, do a complete recovery onto it, and then extract the users files from there.   3 The $20K charge was just a polite way of saying NO!_   >_ > >>
 > >> > Cheers_ > >>
 > >> > Ken > >> > >> --_ > >> Peter Hkanson P > >>         IPSec  Sverige      (At the Riverside of Gothenburg, home of Volvo)O > >>            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out. 2 > >>            Remove "icke-reklam" and it works. >4
 > > Cheers >_ > > Ken_ >_ > -- > Peter HkansonM >         IPSec  Sverige      (At the Riverside of Gothenburg, home of Volvo) L >            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out./ >            Remove "icke-reklam" and it works.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:32:21 -0700_% From: J Ahlstrom <jahlstro@cisco.com>_ Subject: Re: Itanium troubles ) Message-ID: <3CB6EFF5.585E228F@cisco.com>4  & --------------B0A573ECD837B735D899A8B2* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Alexis Cousein wrote:    > David Froble wrote:7 > O > > So, you're implying that the majority of today's computer users are stupid?_ >_G > The majority of *humans* are relatively speaking idiots outside their4Q > field of competence - I don't see why computers would somehow be the lone field_1 > where God has blessed us all with intelligence.  >0 >   B Isn't this a tautology or an extensive definition of "competence"?  G > The majority of *humans* are relatively speaking idiots outside their1 >   field of competence  >3  % Perhaps changing "field" to "fields"?_     JKA_   -- The belief that_    there is only one truth and&    that oneself is in possession of it( seems to me the deepest root of all evil! that is in the world. -- Max Born_    & --------------B0A573ECD837B735D899A8B2) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit3  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Alexis Cousein wrote: ) <blockquote TYPE=CITE>David Froble wrote:5H <p>> So, you're implying that the majority of today's computer users are stupid?_H <p>The majority of *humans* are relatively speaking idiots outside theirH <br>field of competence - I don't see why computers would somehow be the
 lone field3 <br>where God has blessed us all with intelligence.  <p>&nbsp;</blockquote>B Isn't this a tautology or an extensive definition of "competence"? <blockquote TYPE=CITE>J <pre>The majority of *humans* are relatively speaking idiots outside their  &nbsp; field of competence</pre>
 </blockquote>_  , <p><br>Perhaps changing "field" to "fields"?
 <br>&nbsp; <p>JKA <p>--0 <br>The belief that3, <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; there is only one truth and4 <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; that oneself is in possession of it, <br>seems to me the deepest root of all evil% <br>that is in the world. -- Max Born  <br>&nbsp;</html>_  ( --------------B0A573ECD837B735D899A8B2--   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:02:02 -0700% From: mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman)   Subject: Re: LANCP ERROR MESSAGE< Message-ID: <1d08b916.0204120602.ac594ec@posting.google.com>  j mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman) wrote in message news:<1d08b916.0204040639.2774d24f@posting.google.com>... > OpenVMS V6.2-1H3 > % > LANCP> TRIG NODE WR2998/DEVICE=EWA04( > %LANCP-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value@ > -LANCP-I-OTHERAPP, Another application may be using the device >  > Who is the other application?  > 	 > Regards0 >  > Mark >  > LANCP> show device ewa01$ > Device Listing, volatile database: >  >    Device_ >    ------_	 >    EWA0_ >  > LANCP> show device ewa0/mop- > $ > Device Listing, volatile database:A >               --- MOP Downline Load Service Characteristics ---nD >    Device     State   Access Mode      Clients           Data SizeD >    ------     -----   -----------      -------           ---------E >    EWA0      Enabled  NoExclusive  KnownClientsOnly       246 bytesd   --------------- F This problem was seen a few years ago.  A patch was created to resolveD this and several other problems.  Release notes and a pointer to the) image can be found at the following site:D  O http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v6.21h3/alplan05_062.htmlt  A Other problems that came to light while trying to use lancp whichg might be of help to others.k  = http://www.compaq.com/support/askkcs/14_0_257072_2514708.html ? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/72final/6017/6017pro_093.htmlmM http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/communications/CTI_SRC991210004161.html    Regardsw   Mark   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:54:40 +0000 (UTC)t0 From: sssslewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au. Message-ID: <a96ov0$1nh$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  B I'm looking to add storage to my 500au.  I found a page at Compaq E http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB00W3PF.PDF that lists M both LVD (low-voltage differential) and non-LVD options for internal drives. o@ This confuses me because I have read that you can't mix the two.  H The 2 drives in it now come up as RZ2CC-KA, 4.3 GB.  Are those LVD?  TheI PKA0 device thinks it's a Qlogic ISP1020 but the newer Qlogic devices areeD probably backward-compatible to that driver so it could be somethingJ newer/better.  I looked at some of the loose internal cables, and they are 68-pin connectors.  F I want to know if I can add an internal LVD SCSI disk without adding a controller card.  L Second question -- How about an ultra-ATA (IDE) disk?  It seems to work fine for the CD-ROM.b   I'm running OpenVMS 7.3.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgd> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:06:30 GMT6' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)6" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au/ Message-ID: <3cb6e940.5321293@news.charter.net>.   Keith,  P I'm reasonably certain that the QLogic controller is not capable of handling LVDE SCSI devices.  68-pin SCSI drives can also be plain "old" wide Ultra2cI single-ended, which should be the type of drive currently in your system.o  I You can still get pretty fast and high-capacity single-ended wide drives.s  
 ... Ben Myersg  M On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:54:40 +0000 (UTC), sssslewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A.o
 Lewis) wrote:   C >I'm looking to add storage to my 500au.  I found a page at Compaq ?F >http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB00W3PF.PDF that listsN >both LVD (low-voltage differential) and non-LVD options for internal drives. A >This confuses me because I have read that you can't mix the two.y > I >The 2 drives in it now come up as RZ2CC-KA, 4.3 GB.  Are those LVD?  The J >PKA0 device thinks it's a Qlogic ISP1020 but the newer Qlogic devices areE >probably backward-compatible to that driver so it could be somethingeK >newer/better.  I looked at some of the loose internal cables, and they are  >68-pin connectors.l >aG >I want to know if I can add an internal LVD SCSI disk without adding ad >controller card.b >yM >Second question -- How about an ultra-ATA (IDE) disk?  It seems to work finee >for the CD-ROM. >l >I'm running OpenVMS 7.3.n >l, >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:10:24 +0200n From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au& Message-ID: <3CB6EAD0.8050501@home.nl>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:r  C >I'm looking to add storage to my 500au.  I found a page at Compaq eF >http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB00W3PF.PDF that listsN >both LVD (low-voltage differential) and non-LVD options for internal drives. A >This confuses me because I have read that you can't mix the two.a >2H You can mix the two, but if you do they will all be used as non-LVD. In > case you have a LVD controller, you will loose the LVD access.   >o >lF >The 2 drives in it now come up as RZ2CC-KA, 4.3 GB.  Are those LVD?   >y
 Very unlikely    >TheJ >PKA0 device thinks it's a Qlogic ISP1020 but the newer Qlogic devices areE >probably backward-compatible to that driver so it could be somethingsK >newer/better.  I looked at some of the loose internal cables, and they areh >68-pin connectors.i >m" It will be a ISP1040, (UW, no LVD)   >o >hG >I want to know if I can add an internal LVD SCSI disk without adding ap >controller card.l >c  F Yes you can, but it will be used as a normal UW drive. And take care, / VMS doesn't like every SCSI disk it encounters.    >y >lM >Second question -- How about an ultra-ATA (IDE) disk?  It seems to work finet >for the CD-ROM. >oF If I remember correctly, this is not supported. But I'm not 100% sure.   >o >u >I'm running OpenVMS 7.3.  > , >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:47:31 -0500hC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>r" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500auH Message-ID: <craig.berry-DEA99B.09473112042002@news.directvinternet.com>  . In article <a96ov0$1nh$1@newslocal.mitre.org>,2  sssslewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote:  + > I'm looking to add storage to my 500au.  o  J > The 2 drives in it now come up as RZ2CC-KA, 4.3 GB.  Are those LVD?  TheK > PKA0 device thinks it's a Qlogic ISP1020 but the newer Qlogic devices are-F > probably backward-compatible to that driver so it could be something > newer/better.  y  F If it says it's an ISP1020 that's probably what it is.  I don't think B the different Qlogic chipsets necessarily use the same driver.  Do  ' $ search sys$system:sys$config.dat scsii  C to get an idea of what some of the different supported devices are.L  H > I want to know if I can add an internal LVD SCSI disk without adding a > controller card.  F That might work but not, as someone else pointed out, in LVD mode.  I E don't know if there is an LVD controller supported on the 500au; the f; KZPEA might be too new (and in any case is very expensive).a   > I'm running OpenVMS 7.3.  C There is a FIBRE_SCSI ECO which probably increases your chances of l getting newer gizmos to work.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:48:50 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>-" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au' Message-ID: <3CB6F3D2.78795703@aaa.com>i  / There is no real reason to use diff-SCSI if you 7 don't need to use a SCSI bus up to 25 meters. Otherwiseq6 it's a waste. I tought that it was mainly the external; HSZ40/50/70/80 controllers that used diff-SCSI. Never heardS0 of any StorageWorks disk that had that built in.  ? Now if LVD isn't something different than "normal" diff-SCSI...u   Jan-Erik Sderholm.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:08:27 +0200r From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au& Message-ID: <3CB6F86B.5050504@home.nl>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:   0 >There is no real reason to use diff-SCSI if you8 >don't need to use a SCSI bus up to 25 meters. Otherwise7 >it's a waste. I tought that it was mainly the externale< >HSZ40/50/70/80 controllers that used diff-SCSI. Never heard1 >of any StorageWorks disk that had that built in.X >e@ >Now if LVD isn't something different than "normal" diff-SCSI... >w  I It is different. You are refering to High Voltage Differential, and your tI remarks are correct for that kind of connections. However there are High ?I Voltage Differential SCSI disks around too... You can not mix these kind e( of disks with other types of SCSI disks.  H LVD was invented for performance reasons. It is available in 80 MB/sec, D 160 MB/sec, and even 320 MB/sec. Normal (UW) SCSI can only reach 40 F MB/sec. Connecting a LVD disk with a UW device on the same electrical & SCSI bus will set the whole bus to UW.  H There are SCSI controllers with two SCSI busses, one UW bus and one LVD I bus. Both busses are connected by means of a SCSI bridge. This will have hF the effect of creating one logical SCSI bus with a maximum of 16 SCSI C addresses (incl. the controller). The SCSI adresses on both busses hF should be unique For example you can not use SCSI address 2 on the UW C bus as well as one the LVD bus. It can only be used on one of them.d   >o >C >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >U   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:26:03 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comP" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au8 Message-ID: <r42ebugt8hsfqffv39i7ornsgeu6vpbg6o@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:54:40 +0000 (UTC), sssslewis@mazda.mitre.org- (Keith A. Lewis) wrote:a  C >I'm looking to add storage to my 500au.  I found a page at Compaq L >...G >I want to know if I can add an internal LVD SCSI disk without adding a  >controller card.   E We did this recently, (drives fr IslandCo) and it worked fine for us.e  ' $  write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME")  Digital Personal WorkStation 5  & $ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION") V7.3      F $ PI SH DEV/FULL loggingdisk | SEARCH/WIN=(0,1) SYS$PIPE "Device Type"= Disk XX$DKA100:, device type HITACHI DK32DJ-18MW, is online, 8D mounted, file-orented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.e $    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:38:11 -0400s; From: Robert DiRosario <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>h" Subject: Re: LVD SCSI on PWS 500au- Message-ID: <3CB70D73.ADF83EEE@gsfc.nasa.gov>    "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:s  C > I'm looking to add storage to my 500au.  I found a page at CompaqtG > http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB00W3PF.PDF that lists N > both LVD (low-voltage differential) and non-LVD options for internal drives.B > This confuses me because I have read that you can't mix the two. >gJ > The 2 drives in it now come up as RZ2CC-KA, 4.3 GB.  Are those LVD?  TheK > PKA0 device thinks it's a Qlogic ISP1020 but the newer Qlogic devices aretF > probably backward-compatible to that driver so it could be somethingL > newer/better.  I looked at some of the loose internal cables, and they are > 68-pin connectors. > H > I want to know if I can add an internal LVD SCSI disk without adding a > controller card. >4N > Second question -- How about an ultra-ATA (IDE) disk?  It seems to work fine > for the CD-ROM.c >7 > I'm running OpenVMS 7.3. >n- > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgc@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.  N I know some of the Seagate LVD drives will also work as SE drives.  The drivesK will select LVD or SE mode, or you can use a jumper.  So you can add LVD/SEI drives to a SE SCSI system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:05:57 +0100c From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com9 Subject: Memo:  Re: Best DCL programm you've ever writtentE Message-ID: <OF2EA460D7.42CF6985-ON80256B99.005817E3@systems.uk.hsbc>   J I wrote a networky one that accesses a DEMSA, gets it's current config and1 converts that to a file that creates the permaentuK file on the system it downloads from. It has 2 uses - the primary one beingoF the problem I was solving at the time - no good permaent files (deadlyJ situation) and 2: with this it becomes more convenient to make your changeG on the live box, ensure it works and then refresh the permanent file. I-G know these devices are long since out of support but there appear to bet2 still many out there. Anyone interested just mail.   Paul        ' ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **d  D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, please_B  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.e  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure oraA  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,l>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofr?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.s   D  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office _=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly eA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so u3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.   D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:34:13 +0100h From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com: Subject: Memo:  Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.E Message-ID: <OF93FC1581.FBADFF16-ON80256B99.0044D1C3@systems.uk.hsbc>t  H Actually it is a macro program that dumps a very long escape sequence toE the terminal of choice and it makes each character appear upside downt5 (UPSID.MAR) I have a copy if anyone is interested....    Paul        ' ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **t  D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, pleaseeB  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.n  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or A  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,i>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofm?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.x  rD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office p=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly  A  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so  3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.   D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:50:16 GMT $ From: "Upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com>Y Subject: Re: online atricle about sample X11 server architecture and DECwindows architecth9 Message-ID: <IuCt8.17$Pq5.359494@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   9 But this article is not there.Only abstract is available.a   Regards,	 Upadhyayao   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:01:14 -0400r1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>JY Subject: Re: online atricle about sample X11 server architecture and DECwindows architectn2 Message-ID: <3CB6DA9A.E219F3CE@firstdbasource.com>  ? http://www.math.utah.edu:8080/ftp/pub/tex/bib/toc/dectechj.htmlx   Upadhyaya wrote: > 4 > Does anyone have pointer to the following article? > < > Digital Technical Journal of Digital Equipment Corporation" > Volume 2, Number 3, Summer, 1990A >                  S. A. McGregor   An overview of the DECwindows2L >                                   architecture . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 9--151! >              S. Angebranndt and.L >                    T. D. Newman   The sample X11 server architecture . . . > 16--23! >             L. P. Treggiari and L >                   M. D. Collins   Development of the XUI toolkit . . . . . > 24--33J >                 S. R. Greenwood   The DECwindows user interface language > 34--43! >                 T. M. Spine andDI >                    J. L. VanNoy   The evolution of the X user interface L >                                   style  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 44--51! >                  R. J. Rost andt! >             J. D. Friedberg and > >                 P. L. Nishimoto   PEX: a network-transparentL >                                   three-dimensional graphics system  . . . > 52--63E >                      C. A. Kent   XDPS: a Display PostScript System L >                                   extension for DECwindows . . . . . . . . > 64--73! >                  M. R. Ryan andlJ >                 J. H. VanGilder   The development of DECwindows VMS mail > 74--83! >              D. Mirchandani andaB >                       P. Biswas   Ethernet performance of remoteL >                                   DECwindows applications  . . . . . . . . > 84--94 > 
 > Regards,   -- i Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163m7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)4   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:47:23 -0700  From: konomose@hotmail.com (Tim)@ Subject: Re: Please Disregard / Mail Server Troubleshooting Test= Message-ID: <82eb2170.0204120947.79889a77@posting.google.com>a  _ "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<3CB51DD5.4050003@qsl.network>...-G > Please only use the test newsgroups for this type of troubleshooting.t >  > Followups set to vmsnet.test >  > -Johnn > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion ONly  >  > Hassan wrote:nF > > Assisting a client troubleshooting viewing posts from outside thisP > > particular mail server. This test is to confirm connectivity to outside news > > servers.   Hi John,  F Although it was your personal opinion, I believe you are 100% correct.E On second thought, there are better ways to do this without includingd? the rest of this group. My main concern was working quickly for ; resolution, but sometimes etiquette is forgotten under such  circumstances.D In case you are wondering, I also used the news account of one of my* coworkers above, hence the different name.   My apologies to all.  E On a finer note, I have been recently introduced to VMS and am a fan.R. Browsing this group has been quite enjoyable.    Cheers   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:26:42 GMTr1 From: "David J. Wilson" <moc.sregor@nosliwjdivad> 9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!iF Message-ID: <C6vt8.7080$nA1.3270@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee7 news:d7791aa1.0204111030.47704316@posting.google.com...26 > it's just I got so excited reading Carlys letter ...       Which letter was that?   DaveW.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:58:48 GMTq# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!nF Message-ID: <sKBt8.2938$8T1.2879@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J Is it one of those letters where it says "By reading this letter you agreeI to keep its contents confidential", or something like that?  Kind of like D the 'negative-billing' option cable co's. like to do when adding new	 channels.   L If you didn't sign a NDA explicitly protecting the contents of that 'letter'L prior to reading it, you/your company aren't under any obligation to keep it
 confidential.S    B I'm not a lawyer, so take my thought on this with a grain of salt.    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CB62EE6.5F79C998@videotron.ca... > Bob Ceculski wrote:s > > 6 > > sorry about the previous post, it should have read7 > > VMS lives, not alpha ... it's just I got so excited- > > reading Carlys letter ...  >2F > Well, today, I got a letter from Winkler. It is under NDA so I can't revealL > any details, but in it, it is clear that VMS doesn't last past the initial 3 years. >dK > From my point of view, your letter has has much credibility as the lettero It > just described above.. > L > Until it is made public, it is worthless. For the same reason you wouldn't notrL > believe the letter I described above unless I produced it, I won't believe the , > letter you mentioned until you produce it. >sI > VMS retained its loyalists because they were fed at strategic intervalsa withI > promises that set high expectation that VMS could return to prominance.  But I > they never materialized. What June 25 did was to prevent loyalists from L > believing any such rumours/expectations until ther are extremely concrete. >cE > Yeah, I would be very pleased if that virtual letter were to becomen reality.9 > But until it does, I'd rather assume it is just a hoax.0 > 8 > (and no, I didn't actually get a letter from Winkler).   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:00:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!i= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204120900.485aa1cf@posting.google.com>a  q "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<sKBt8.2938$8T1.2879@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...'L > Is it one of those letters where it says "By reading this letter you agreeK > to keep its contents confidential", or something like that?  Kind of likefF > the 'negative-billing' option cable co's. like to do when adding new > channels.3 > N > If you didn't sign a NDA explicitly protecting the contents of that 'letter'N > prior to reading it, you/your company aren't under any obligation to keep it > confidential.e >  > D > I'm not a lawyer, so take my thought on this with a grain of salt. >   H I gave my word to the vms high up that I wouldn't divuldge its contents,+ and unlike a lot of people, I keep my word!A   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:34:46 -0400b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger! , Message-ID: <3CB71AB5.D1CBE2D6@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:tJ > I gave my word to the vms high up that I wouldn't divuldge its contents,- > and unlike a lot of people, I keep my word!d  N Did you really ? You did reveal the fact that you had received it, and you did imply some of its contents.d  J As soon as more than one person would have received such a letter, I would< have been "safe" to leak it to Mike Magee or any other form.  M Secondly, if Carly is "legally" prevented from discussing the Compaq productshH until the merger is complete, what was a Compaq employee doing with said' letter and releasing it to a customer ?    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:12:38 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>82 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it6 Message-ID: <20020412071238.30597.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:    <snip>  ? >Lengthy analysis of Freddy boys past postings suggests that ifi> >any technical competence is displayed at all it may be in the; >area of X11 or USB drivers for OpenVMS, possibly a new USBi: >keyboard mapping for X11 on OpenVMS being the most likely: >candidate for Freddys technical prowess. A new use for F17 >being a likely area possibly as a on off power switch.    What "lengthy analysis"?  G Every damn time you're challenged to back up the nonsense you post, you I can't be bothered to look up google to provide links to documents backingyB up your claims. Why should anyone believe any different about your$ knowledge of Fred's posting history?  F As a recent example, see Message-ID: <3CB6118F.4090401@sun.com>, and I quote...  H In article <3CB6118F.4090401@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:f >Christopher C. Stacy wrote:D >> Do you have some benchmarks we could see that back up your claim? >> n >t9 >Hell no it was a very long time ago and people generallyi9 >used to just say the Symbolics were faster than a Sun/HPt	 >IBM etc.e  H This was promptly followed by someone else who could be bothered lookingK actually quoting benchmarks. Face it, you're just lazy, or haven't masteredr* the finer points of using a search engine.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netV   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:59:38 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it& Message-ID: <3CB6F65A.4060707@sun.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:r  8 > On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:l >  > <snip> > @ >>Lengthy analysis of Freddy boys past postings suggests that if? >>any technical competence is displayed at all it may be in theu< >>area of X11 or USB drivers for OpenVMS, possibly a new USB; >>keyboard mapping for X11 on OpenVMS being the most likelyr; >>candidate for Freddys technical prowess. A new use for F1g8 >>being a likely area possibly as a on off power switch. >> >  > What "lengthy analysis"?    = None I was joking you don't need lengthy analysis to work oute6 what kind of competence Freddy is likely to display or not as the case may be.e     > I > Every damn time you're challenged to back up the nonsense you post, youRK > can't be bothered to look up google to provide links to documents backing"D > up your claims. Why should anyone believe any different about your& > knowledge of Fred's posting history? > H > As a recent example, see Message-ID: <3CB6118F.4090401@sun.com>, and I
 > quote... > J > In article <3CB6118F.4090401@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:n >  >>Christopher C. Stacy wrote:D >>D >>>Do you have some benchmarks we could see that back up your claim? >>>a >>> : >>Hell no it was a very long time ago and people generally: >>used to just say the Symbolics were faster than a Sun/HP
 >>IBM etc. >> > J > This was promptly followed by someone else who could be bothered lookingM > actually quoting benchmarks. Face it, you're just lazy, or haven't masteredp, > the finer points of using a search engine. >     5 Except as you will realise if you read the thread youe9 will also have noted that the benchmark results retrievedo via Google proved my point.e  8 Since when did using a search engine become a substitute for using your brain ???   regards  Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:25:45 +0200 5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de>i; Subject: re: Problems writing blank tape in TZ86 tape driven. Message-ID: <E16vxJR-0000xF-00@mailer.gwdg.de>   <mamueller@dplanet.ch> wrote: J > I am trying to initialize a blank tape (totally blank / factory new DLT3E > cartrige) using the INITIALIZE command, but I always keep getting a  > "PARITY ERROR" error message.j >[...]   In my experience,I  0 	$ INITIALIZE/OVERRIDE=(OWNER,ACCESS,EXPIRATION)  N avoids *reading* a tape prior to overwriting, thus does away with read errors.  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.deAM GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!tM http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:04:22 GMTe' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> " Subject: PS Device Control Library) Message-ID: <3CB71396.CDFB6C24@UIowa.EDU>h  H I am trying to modify an existing DEVCTL library for PS printers (HP and Lexmark,K all kinds of models) so a form can be used to select a specific paper inputu tray.p  L I do not want to use DCPS as this is too difficult to implement in the localM environment due to the specific vendor application.  They use mostly straight* VMS*O print queues where the queue name has a default form that is the exact printingrN method and command line variations like "/form=.../parameter=..." etc. are not possible at all.  P I was given a DEVCTL with modules that intended to be able to select Trays 2, 3, orO 4 from an HP 4000TN (with two extra trays).  However they don't seem to work ats all.P I can not find any PS documentation on how to do this, and I don't want to learnO PS simply for this task. :)  This has to be a FAQ (even though it is not in theoM OpenVMS FAQ!).  I want to be able to generate the setup sequence for the form  andoP then send a PS file without loosing any setup configs to the printer in between.  O Just as a starting point, below is what I was given as a PS snippet to use as a  DEVCTLP module to select the "top" tray from a HP4000TN with one additional regular tray andnA one large capacity tray.  In "HP Space" for this example printer:h   	Tray 1 is the manual feed trayo5 	Tray 2 is the first normal sized, default tray (top)a. 	Tray 3 is an extra normal sized tray (middle)) 	Tray 4 is a large capacity tray (bottom)*  P Since there is a large capacity tray present, the printer will always draw paperL from it first, which is what I want to over-ride.  I want to put the special stockm7 in Tray 2 and put plain stock in 3 & 4 for general use.m  / Here is the PS module to select the "top" tray:4   /top {s 	0" 	statusdict begin setpapertray end 	20 785 moveto }def top   /old_showpage /showpage load def	 /showpaged { 
 	old_showpagea 	top }def  M This module follows one that is a PJL to switch to PS mode and preceeds a big  moduleC of lots of local definitions, etc. and then the file comes through.*  P Should it work at all?  Can the PS commands be sent to the printer in advance of thelK PS file, especially if the PS file was written by an application that makesa decent "stand-alone" PS?  u  " Thanks for any help you can offer!
 Rick Dyson   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:04:51 +0100a$ From: "issinoho" <iain@issinoho.com>, Subject: Re: Reboot after adding quorum disk4 Message-ID: <1018609506.7097.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net>   Thanks, Keith.    > "Keith Parris" <KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:6ec1251e.0204111427.1a2a34dc@posting.google.com...t1 > issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) wrote in message 9 news:<d0141774.0204110537.675893c5@posting.google.com>...tB > > do I HAVE to reboot the cluster after doing the CLUSTER_CONFIGI > > tasks and updating modparams and AUTOGENning, or will the quorum diskn > > TAKE immediately.  > E > Unfortunately, you'll need to reboot each node eventually.  DespiteeE > your having done AUTOGENs, VMS on the running systems knows nothing  > yet of the quorum disk.h >SH > You don't have to reboot the nodes all at once, but over time, all (orH > at least all the non-satellite) nodes will need to be rebooted for theH > new value of the DISK_QUORUM parameter to take effect (satellite nodes> > -- or any node, for that matter, which had a blank value forH > DISK_QUORUM when it booted -- are allowed to use other nodes as quorum > disk watchers).  > G > When the first system reboots, its CLUSTER_SERVER process will createyE > the QUORUM.DAT file and the node will become a quorum disk watcher.1H > Be aware that as long as only that one system has rebooted, if it goesH > down for some reason the quorum disk's votes will go away with it.  SoF > you may wish to reboot a couple of nodes at the start so you'll have > two quorum disk watchers./ >/F > Interestingly, in a TruCluster, from what I've read, the quorum diskE > could take effect immediately, and be removed immediately some timeuG > later if desired.  (But it can only have 0 or 1 vote, not the variety 1 > of values one can give QDSKVOTES in VMS today.) 0 > ----------------------------------------------0 > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:37:13 -0700 From: hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy) 5 Subject: Re: Redirect SYS$OUTPUT for detached process = Message-ID: <2c0966c2.0204120637.5be57503@posting.google.com>.   Hi:4  3<   I follow the suggestion and made some changes to the code.  c.   open(newSysOutput.log) // i use C RTL open()      // use c RTL write()8   write timestamp and the image name (or script name) to   newSysOutput.log      open(newSysError.err).8   write timestamp and the image name (or script name) to   newSysError.err      // use C RTL close()   close(newSysOutput.log)L   close(newSysError.log)  6   sys$crembx() // make an input mailbox for sys$creprc  6   sys$getdviw(translate the name of the mailbox......)  !   sys$creprc(image = loginout.exea              input = mailbox               output = report.log              error = report.log."              run as detached.....)  )   // all qiow use IO$_WRITEVBLK|IO$M_NOW  J   sys$qiow(write "open/append sys$output newSysOutput.log" to the mailbox)H   sys$qiow(write "open/append sys$error newSysError.err" to the mailbox)     =   sys$qiow(write "write sys$output "stdout" " to the mailbox).<   sys$qiow(write "write sys$error "stderr" " to the mailbox)  e2   sys$qiow(write "close sys$error" to the mailbox)3   sys$qiow(write "close sys$output" to the mailbox)o)   sys$qiow(write "logout" to the mailbox)   &   The result is not i expected either.     I have 3 files at the end.  ?   report.log -> just the regular login info and accouting stuffP  3   newSysOutput.log;1 -> only the time stamp is heres  3   newSysError.err;1 -> only the time stamp is here.m  <   Getting really confused here now. Any help is appreciated.     SammyD   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:17:54 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org5 Subject: Re: Redirect SYS$OUTPUT for detached processt3 Message-ID: <znGGrbN05vES@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <2c0966c2.0204120637.5be57503@posting.google.com>, hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy) writes:r ... % [write timestamp to newsysoutput.log]i [create process]  + >   // all qiow use IO$_WRITEVBLK|IO$M_NOW     Why are you using IO$M_NOW?e  L >   sys$qiow(write "open/append sys$output newSysOutput.log" to the mailbox)J >   sys$qiow(write "open/append sys$error newSysError.err" to the mailbox) >    e? >   sys$qiow(write "write sys$output "stdout" " to the mailbox)m> >   sys$qiow(write "write sys$error "stderr" " to the mailbox)   ...e   >   I have 3 files at the end. > A >   report.log -> just the regular login info and accouting stuffn > 5 >   newSysOutput.log;1 -> only the time stamp is herer > 5 >   newSysError.err;1 -> only the time stamp is here.-  A Oh yeah.  That problem.  The issue is that the $ OPEN SYS$OUTPUT JC is a NOOP.  The DCL OPEN command silently fails if the logical namei6 specified is already open as a process permanent file.  I I gave you bad advice when I recommended that you merely OPEN SYS$OUTPUT..8 You'd have to close it first.  Which is difficult to do.  E Hmmm.  How do we get DCL to open SYS$OUTPUT, appending to an existingr- file.  Let's play some games interactively...    First try...   $ DEFINE SYS$OUTPUT "^ & *" - %DCL-E-OPENOUT, error opening ^ & * as outputo+ -RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax errori $ SHOW LOG SYS$OUTPUTr7    "SYS$OUTPUT" = "_ALPHA$VTA1215:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)c  , Ok.  So you can't close SYS$OUTPUT that way.  
 Second try...r   $ CLOSE SYS$OUTPUT $ SHOW LOG SYS$OUTPUTt7    "SYS$OUTPUT" = "_ALPHA$VTA1215:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)   C Nope.  You might be able to close it that way, but it automatically 	 re-opens.    Third try...   $ CREATE your-file.dat
 time-stamp ^Z $ OPEN Q your-file.dat $ DEFINE SYS$OUTPUT Qy $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "some text" $ DEASSIGN SYS$OUTPUTf	 $ CLOSE Q  $ TYPE your-file.dat
 time-stamp	 some texth $w   *BINGO -- we have a winner*e  J    sys$qiow(write "open/append newsysout newSysOutput.log" to the mailbox)?    sys$qiow(write "define sys$output newsysout" to the mailbox)    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:53:18 +0100-T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>Y Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Co & Message-ID: <3CB6E6CE.6000001@sun.com>   Tom Linden wrote:   G > Curious what that leverage might be, AFAIK Deutsche bank is primarily.L > Siemens and IBM.  Even so,  I doubt that the by-laws preclude shareholders! > from voting their best interestd >      I assume you mean suppliers.  5 Deutsche is Sun and IBM in the investment bank with ao9 smattering of OpenVMS and HP-UX systems that were aquirede8 when Deutsche aquired Bankers Trust wheich was an HP and Digital/Compaq shop.     Regardsn Andrew Harrison      >  >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]( >>Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 6:44 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrH >>Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit$ >>challenging the Compaq acquisition >> >>  >>Walter Hewlett Lays Out Theory! >>On Deutsche Asset's Vote Switcha >> >>By DONNA FUSCALDO  >>DOW JONES NEWSWIRES-% >>Updated April 5, 2002 5:47 p.m. EST7 >> >>I >>Dissident Hewlett-Packard Co. board member Walter Hewlett said DeutschemH >>Asset Management's last-minute decision to vote some of its 25 millionF >>shares in favor of the proposed acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.= >>"apparently swung the vote" from defeating the combination.i >>C >>In court documents filed with the Delaware Chancery Court Friday,  >>which willG >>hear Mr. Hewlett's arguments aimed at derailing the merger of H-P andtC >>Compaq, Hewlett alleges that the Deutsche Bank AG unit's vote wass >>"based notG >>on the merits of the proposed merger but on extraneous considerations J >>(future business dealing with H-P) personal to Deutsche and unrelated to& >>Deutsche's status as a stockholder." >>J >>According to the documents, which were filed in response to H-P's motionC >>asking the judge to dismiss the suit, Mr. Hewlett said it's "moree >>than fairpC >>to infer" that Deutsche changed a portion of its vote at the last1 >>minute notF >>because of the merits of the deal suddenly changed, but "because H-PF >>exercised the only leverage it had over Deutsche -- the H-P business >>relationship." >>K >>Last Thursday, Mr. Hewlett, son of one of the late co-founders, who led a I >>protracted proxy battle to stop the merger of H-P and Compaq from goingiB >>through, launched a lawsuit alleging that H-P improperly secured
 >>shareholder K >>votes to approve its merger with Compaq. Mr. Hewlett contends H-P coerced B >>Deutsche Asset Management into switching a large block of shares
 >>in favor of.$ >>the deal, among other allegations. >>I >>H-P filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit Monday. The Chancellor of thetI >>Delaware Chancery Court, Judge William B. Chandler III, has scheduled ae4 >>hearing on the motion for Sunday at 9:30 a.m. EDT. >>L >>H-P claimed early victory in its battle to win shareholder support for the> >>merger with Compaq. But Mr. Hewlett has said the vote is too >>close to call.A >>An official tally of the votes by proxy counters IVS Associatesn >>is currentlyB >>underway, and a certified result isn't expected for a few weeks. >>< >>Officials at H-P weren't immediately available to comment. >>D >>http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB101803983486900480,00.html?mod= >> > home_whats
 > _news_us >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:26:59 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: Regarding Hewlett- Packard's request to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Co?, Message-ID: <3CB70AD1.556350E5@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:7 > Deutsche is Sun and IBM in the investment bank with ak; > smattering of OpenVMS and HP-UX systems that were aquired : > when Deutsche aquired Bankers Trust wheich was an HP and > Digital/Compaq shop.  H There wasn't nearly as much VMS left at BT in the 1996 timeframe, and itJ certaintly was seen as a dying OS by some execs in that bank at that time.* (along with Citicorp, ABM Amro, HSBC etc).  M However, Bankers Trust was a big Compaq shop. for the Y2K frienzy, they spent?4 mega money changing their whole PC and server fleet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:33:19 +0100tT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>G Subject: Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attackss& Message-ID: <3CB6E21F.6000505@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:-  g > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<a8umup$21gl$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>...  > 1 >>In article <ub3vqudbki6g6c@corp.supernews.com>,-* >> "RLC" <rlc@magicalsoftware.com> writes: >>|>D >>|> The nice thing about VMS for buffer overflow attacks is that ifB >>|> the web application (say HTTP server) is not given privilegesF >>|> and file system privs are set correctly, it doesn't really matter@ >>|> that you can execute code.  Access woudl be limited so that/ >>|> nothing significant could be done anyway. i >>E >>Which of course is true of a Unix system or any other OS as well.  >E >>The general lack of security in most Unix systems is due to mindsetoC >>(an old one that sadly is no longer acceptable for social reasonsiE >>rather than technical reasons) and not real technical shortcomings.e >> >>bill >> > J > any other os?  you better head on over to say ... comp.os.linux.securityJ > and take a gander, or better yet windoze ... they have millions of postsE > reading "Help, I have been hacked" appearing hourly ... vms remainsiJ > "unhackable" for the reasons stated ... buffer overflows from ip are notL > common because of vms design ... unix/linux/windoze are insecure, and that > is putting it kindly!o >     < Good tactic Bob, if in doubt try to get people to think that) all UNIX's are insecure because Linux is.t  : Lets extend this one step further, OpenVMS is an OS, Win327 is an OS, Win32 is insecure therefor so is OpenVMS theye are both OS's so it must be.  > Of course this is ridiculous but no more so than your attempts   Regardso Andrew Harrison>   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 09:57:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204120857.7c14dad4@posting.google.com>>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CB6E21F.6000505@sun.com>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:e > i > > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<a8umup$21gl$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>...e > > 3 > >>In article <ub3vqudbki6g6c@corp.supernews.com>,o, > >> "RLC" <rlc@magicalsoftware.com> writes: > >>|>F > >>|> The nice thing about VMS for buffer overflow attacks is that ifD > >>|> the web application (say HTTP server) is not given privilegesH > >>|> and file system privs are set correctly, it doesn't really matterB > >>|> that you can execute code.  Access woudl be limited so that1 > >>|> nothing significant could be done anyway.   > >>G > >>Which of course is true of a Unix system or any other OS as well.  aG > >>The general lack of security in most Unix systems is due to mindsetuE > >>(an old one that sadly is no longer acceptable for social reasons G > >>rather than technical reasons) and not real technical shortcomings.  > >> > >>bill > >> > > L > > any other os?  you better head on over to say ... comp.os.linux.securityL > > and take a gander, or better yet windoze ... they have millions of postsG > > reading "Help, I have been hacked" appearing hourly ... vms remains.L > > "unhackable" for the reasons stated ... buffer overflows from ip are notN > > common because of vms design ... unix/linux/windoze are insecure, and that > > is putting it kindly!c > >  >  > > > Good tactic Bob, if in doubt try to get people to think that+ > all UNIX's are insecure because Linux is.y > < > Lets extend this one step further, OpenVMS is an OS, Win329 > is an OS, Win32 is insecure therefor so is OpenVMS they  > are both OS's so it must be. > @ > Of course this is ridiculous but no more so than your attempts > 	 > Regardsp > Andrew Harrison   A just go check out the cert advisories Andy ... they both look thel' same for unix and linux ... "terrible"!d   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:36:26 -07005 From: paul.richardson@ssi-world.com (Paul Richardson)eE Subject: Re: Samba V2.0.6 Failed to UID error Network map drive errorT= Message-ID: <f826a002.0204120636.15b04152@posting.google.com>   _ "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<3CB6782C.7040302@qsl.network>...o > Paul Richardson wrote: > > Help me! > > J > > I trust you good souls may be able to help. I seem to have come so far > > and feel thateD > > I'm so close to getting Samba for VMS v2.0.6 working but for the > > following error that > > is reported in the SMB.LOG.  > > C > > [2002/04/11 17:18:07, 0, pid=4680, effective(0, 0), real(0, 0)]t0 > > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SEC.C;2:(52)C > >   Failed to set uid privileges to (-1,8388736) now set to (0,0)eC > > [2002/04/11 17:18:07, 0, pid=4680, effective(0, 0), real(0, 0)]f2 > > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(2456) > >   PANIC: failed to set uid7 > > ***************************************************h >  > $x = 8388736
 > $show sym xt4 > $write sys$output f$identifier(x,"NUMBER_TO_NAME") > J > For some reason, SMBD is attempting set the user to uic [200,200], that < > is the DEFAULT account on OpenVMS and is usually disabled. > E > I would recommend checking to make sure that there is a one to one pE > relationship between the UICs and the usernames in your SYSUAF and dE > RIGHTS Identifiers, and that the USERNAMES and diretories have the n > expected UICs on them. > I > > I have used SMBPASSWD from the system account to create both the usertG > > account I want to use and also to join the NT Domain for the domaindK > > security flag in smb.conf. I have also checked there is a correspondingi > >  VAX account.n > J > The domain support in SAMBA 2.0.6 is kind of primitive.  I did not have ) > a domain controller to test it against.- > H > I would recommend first reading the SAMBA-VMS FAQ in the distribution,H > and then try the tests in DIAGNOSIS.TXT.  If that file is missing fromG > the distribution, then it can be found on the documentation link fromP. > your closest mirror of http://www.samba.org/ > H > See if you can get it working as a standalone server before trying to  > join a domain. > J > You can also ask on the SAMBA-VMS(at)SAMBA.ORG mailing list, where your I > post may stand out more, to see if anyone else has succeeded in gettinga$ > SAMBA on OpenVMS to join a domain. > E > The SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS with few exceptions is bug and feature ,$ > compatible with the UNIX platform. > H > So you can also post on comp.protocols.smb and the SAMBA(AT)SAMBA.ORG I > mailing lists to see if there are any special tricks to getting domain n > membership to work.v >  > -John( > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlyl  C *************************** NEW Entry *****************************t   Thanks John,  M I have progressed a little thanks but (always a but!) I still have problems.    P The previous error was due to the account pr sharing the default UIC [200,200], R this was inpart due the account being coloned from the default account without theT relevenat flags to change its UIC. There was also no rights identifier in the rightsS database for the default account or the newly created guest account, both have now t been added.k  T I can map a network drive to the alpha public from NT but for instance when I try toM copy a 832k file from NT to VAX it fails with a network error. Smaller files CS seem to be created without the error being produced. The following are the excerpts  from the smb.log respectively.  P [2002/04/12 14:42:12, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(608)-"   unix_clean_name [/Ints0015d.doc]P [2002/04/12 14:42:12, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(608)r!   unix_clean_name [Ints0015d.doc]:P [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] / CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]OPEN.C;1:(1002)l9   calling open_file with flags=0x1 flags2=0x600 mode=0766 P [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 2, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] . CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]OPEN.C;1:(595)<   pr opened file Ints0015d.doc read=No write=Yes (numopen=2)P [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LOCKING]LOCKING_SLOW_VMS.C;1:(1165)P   set_share_mode: Created share file /samba_root/var/locks/SHARE.3815544.2965974  with mode 0x11 pid=1328P [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)r   Transaction 19 of length 52nP [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448)h$   switch message SMBwrite (pid 4904)P [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)i%   Skipping become_user - already user P [2002/04/12 14:42:13, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)$   dos_ChDir to Samba_PubliciP [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] 0 CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]REPLY.C;1:(2559)   write fnum=8513 num=0 wrote=0tP [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)n   Transaction 20 of length 120P [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448)r%   switch message SMBtrans2 (pid 4904)eP [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)o%   Skipping become_user - already usersP [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)    dos_ChDir to Samba_Public P [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]TRANS2.C;2:(1640) G   call_trans2setfilepathinfo(8) Ints0015d.doc info_level=257 totdata=40$P [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)r    Transaction 21 of length 61440P [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448)h$   switch message SMBwrite (pid 4904)P [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)s%   Skipping become_user - already useruP [2002/04/12 14:42:17, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)m   dos_ChDir to Samba_PublicSP [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] 0 CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]REPLY.C;1:(2559)'   write fnum=8513 num=61388 wrote=61388oP [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)B   Transaction 22 of length 104P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448)O$   switch message SMBwrite (pid 4904)P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)Q%   Skipping become_user - already user P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)    dos_ChDir to Samba_PublicqP [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] 0 CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]REPLY.C;1:(2559)!   write fnum=8513 num=52 wrote=52-P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)i    Transaction 23 of length 61440P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448)e$   switch message SMBwrite (pid 4904)P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)m%   Skipping become_user - already user P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)t   dos_ChDir to Samba_Public P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] 0 CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]REPLY.C;1:(2559)'   write fnum=8513 num=61388 wrote=61388.P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)    Transaction 24 of length 104P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448) $   switch message SMBwrite (pid 4904)P [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)e%   Skipping become_user - already usereP [2002/04/12 14:42:18, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)f   dos_ChDir to Samba_Public P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] 0 CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.SMBD]REPLY.C;1:(2559)!   write fnum=8513 num=52 wrote=52 P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(615)s    Transaction 25 of length 61440P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]PROCESS.C;2:(448)n$   switch message SMBwrite (pid 4904)P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 4, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;2:(181)n%   Skipping become_user - already user P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 3, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] - CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]DOSCALLS.C;1:(336)e   dos_ChDir to Samba_Public>P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 0, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]FAULT.C;1:(40)oA   =============================================================== P [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 0, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]FAULT.C;1:(41)d/   INTERNAL ERROR: Signal 10 in pid 4904 (2.0.6)s3   Please read the file BUGS.txt in the distributionhP [2002/04/12 14:42:19, 0, pid=4904, effective(7929977, 121), real(7929977, 121)] ) CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]FAULT.C;1:(43)CA   ===============================================================e    L ****************************************************************************  ? the above is what is reported from the first (largest) NT copy.p  M I have also set security = user and removed Domain authentication as per yourl suggestion.s   again many thank in advance.   paul  L ****************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:59:44 +0200p( From: "Bruin, J.M. de" <Bruin@WT.TNO.NL>, Subject: RE: Start Windows program from VMS?C Message-ID: <86BE4031AD3CD611AC170008C7F37BC2472AA6@wt15.wt.tno.nl>p   Rob,  P I did something similar on a NT box and I do not see why that should not work on
 a W2K box.C I must say that the way I have solved this could be done 'cause theD$ implementation is not time-critical.  P What I did, was defining a scheduled task on the NT box running every 2 minutes.M The only thing the task does is looking for .bat and .cmd files and run those J files (the .cmd files are in fact .bat files with another type in order toJ sychronize things in the scheduled job, first the .bat files then the .cmdC files) I just use a for %n in (*.bat) do %n loop to establish this. L Of each processed .bat or .cmd files, the full specification is written to aP delfiles.bat file that is run after processing the files, this way securing thatN only those files that have actually run, are deleted. The next instance of theL scheduled job will 'pick up' any 'leftovers' and/or new files and do the job again.  L The job looks on a Samba drive! This can either be mapped continously or you6 make use of "net use x: \node\share 'user' < pwdfile".K Make sure you have the right user with the right privileges running the the  scheduled task.n  I Preparing the .bat and .cmd files on the VMS end of it, gives you all therP freedom to define the tasks to be performed on the NT box. You only have to makeP sure that the appropiate programs (in your case 'prog') are in right place, with the right privileges etc.i  M You can use the start /wait option on NT to wait for the completion of a taska9 before starting of the next job (i.e. .bat or .cmd file).t  O I have this options to trick things on several occasions. The scheduled job has N that many privileges that, if you know how it works, you can use it do severalG tasks for you you normally would not be allowed to. This is, of course, N depending on the rights and privliges of the taks owner, but in my case it wasP enough to let me have the job copy files I normally would not have access to, toO a location of my choice. For that I needed access to the area the .bat and .cmdt3 files are normally written to, but that I did have.H  P I know there are some pitfalls and looppholes sitll in there, but for now it the principal works for us.o  
 I use it for:a5 - converting text to PDF (using Ghostscript under NT)i3 - merging and printing data and document using Wordo: - updating Excel sheet using data from the VMS environmentN - updating several datafiles on NT that contains data from the VMS environment - etc.  O Depending on the load of the scheduled task, you can alter the running intervale of the task.   Hope this helps,   Mark     -----Original Message-----: From: Robert A.M. van Lopik [mailto:lopik@mail.telepac.pt]# Sent: donderdag 11 april 2002 16:48  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( Subject: Start Windows program from VMS?    D I would appreciate your suggestions as to how to solve the following problem:  D I have a (binary) Windows program (say 'prog') that takes as input aF filename, processes it and produces an outpult file. Calling sequence: >prog infile outfile -switches  > I need to use this program within a VMS command procedure like $@doprog P1 P2 P3n  E Somehow I have to transfer P1 (the infile) to Windows(2000), initiatenJ execution of 'prog', and get the resulting file back in P2. And I also may; want to transmit the switches in P3 to the Windows program.   J Before I dive too deep into this, I was wondering what the combined wisdom( of the VMS community would come up with.   Thanks in advancet7 rob van lopik (DouroVision Consultoria Informtica Lda)    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:05:38 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Sun marketing worse than VMS marketing!  Sells lemons!a< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204120905.f6cb509@posting.google.com>  B this is from the enquirer ... well Andy, looks like your marketing@ department has the guts to tell the truth about Sun products ...* don't ever talk about vms marketing again!   Sun products lemons    Think again Scott ' By the INQwell, 12/04/2002 09:42:03 BST     B PERHAPS THE MARKETING and advertising people at Sun should think aB little before they design sites like this one, which has just been	 revamped:  Sun's Store.  D Does Scott's firm really wish to suggest that the products Sun sells1 there are so closely associated with... lemons? n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 05:57:30 GMT 1 From: "David J. Wilson" <moc.sregor@nosliwjdivad> 5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?eH Message-ID: <eHut8.48643$cN1.33941@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CB63A72.BFFB813B@videotron.ca...H > Since the engineers are going to be going through all of VMS's modules duringE > the porting effort, wouldn't it be a great time for them to finallyr replace L > all "openvms" back to "vms"  and do away with that "open" stupidity nobody > wants anyways ?m  %     Isn't the "open" silent...?   ;-)h   DaveW.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:16:47 -0400s' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>t5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?o< Message-ID: <howard-60689F.02164612042002@enews.newsguy.com>  , In article <3CB63A72.BFFB813B@videotron.ca>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e  O > Since the engineers are going to be going through all of VMS's modules duringMM > the porting effort, wouldn't it be a great time for them to finally replaceSL > all "openvms" back to "vms"  and do away with that "open" stupidity nobody > wants anyways ?T   Sounds good to me...   -- : Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"' Aren't there any networked SJFs around?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:09:46 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>*5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?s2 Message-ID: <3CB6CE8A.DA97E698@firstdbasource.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote:o > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CB63A72.BFFB813B@videotron.ca...J > > Since the engineers are going to be going through all of VMS's modules > duringG > > the porting effort, wouldn't it be a great time for them to finallyU	 > replace N > > all "openvms" back to "vms"  and do away with that "open" stupidity nobody > > wants anyways ?  > B > Wait a minute!  For some unknown reason I like it the way it is. > F > BTW, can I send you a cash incentive to never mention this again? :) >   G you can send me a cash incentive and I promise I won't mention it...  I ; will even set up a paypal link to make it easy for you.  :)k     > KF >  > -- >  > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.Tru64.org > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://www.LinuxHPTC.com   -- - Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163X7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comn Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)i 704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 07:49:46 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?S3 Message-ID: <xbEMBK5xmumE@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  | In article <eHut8.48643$cN1.33941@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "David J. Wilson" <moc.sregor@nosliwjdivad> writes: >  > ' >     Isn't the "open" silent...?   ;-)p  D    Yes, but my customer still wants to know what the difference is. A    When I'm trying to get mork work it wouldn't be a good idea tor    just point her to the FAQ.t    o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:02:09 -0400n From: William_Bochnik@acml.com5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?t> Message-ID: <OF69D089B4.FACE1784-ON85256B99.004D0898@acml.com>  ; yes, and Digial is pronounced  "DEC" (at least in my world)e :-)h    [                                                                                            r[                       "David J.                                                            t[                       Wilson"                         To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com           n[                       <moc.sregor@nosl                cc:                                   [                       iwjdivad>                Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS     a[                                                back to VMS ?                               r[                       04/12/2002 01:57                                                      [                       AM                                                                    [                       Please respond                                                       2[                       to "David J.                                                         0[                       Wilson"                                                              _[                       <moc.sregor@nosl                                                      [                       iwjdivad>                                                            A[                                                                                            =[                                                                                            T        : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CB63A72.BFFB813B@videotron.ca...@ > Since the engineers are going to be going through all of VMS's modules3 during= > the porting effort, wouldn't it be a great time for them to[ finallyR replaceR; > all "openvms" back to "vms"  and do away with that "open"  stupidity nobody > wants anyways ?9  %     Isn't the "open" silent...?   ;-)[   DaveW.                F ______________________________________________________________________;  The information contained in this transmission may containM@ privileged and confidential information and is intended only forA the use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intended7= recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for deliveringL3 this message to the intended recipient, any review,1@ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication? is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient,nA please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroye# all copies of the original message.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:57:45 -04001- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>e5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?O3 Message-ID: <iuDt8.15683$je5.151131@nnrp1.uunet.ca>n  < "David J. Wilson" <moc.sregor@nosliwjdivad> wrote in messageB news:eHut8.48643$cN1.33941@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >...' >     Isn't the "open" silent...?   ;-)s >...  J When I call a vendor for a support question, if the person I am talking toI says the "Open" part out loud then I usually demand to speak with someone  who can speak VMS with me. :)4   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:39:03 +0100)T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>7 Subject: Re: VMS "unhackable" example just for Andy ...)& Message-ID: <3CB6E377.7030005@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote::  C > this is off process softwares site ... you see Andy, us vms userspC > remain unhackable even w/cert advisories ... that's what we triedBA > to tell you in other posts that most ip problems such as bufferu8 > overflows don't affect vms ... they just error out ... >  > * > SNMP Inquiry - Cert Advisory CA-2002-03 R > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >  > Question:9 > F > Are either MultiNet or TCPware affected by CERT Advisory CA-2002-03C > in Many Implementations of the Simple Network Management Protocol " > (SNMP), dated February 12, 2002? > 	 > Answer:  > H > These SNMP vulnerabilities do NOT pose security risks for MultiNet andH > TCPware. MultiNet V4.4A is not vulnerable to these SNMP issues at all.F > MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware have minor problems with access violationsC > (resulting in the SNMP process dying), but pose no security risk.fE > Patches for MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware V5.5-3 are available from the]G > TCPware ECO Database and the MultiNet ECO database. Use the following: > kit names: >  > MultiNet V4.3A: SNMP-020_A0439  > TCPware V5.5-3: SNMPD_V553P011 >     B Get it into your skull, people expect to get the IP stack with the? OS no one expects to have to buy an additional product to get a_ secure bug free IP stack.]  ; So what was the response for the IP services for OpenVMS ??1  : I am not interested in MultiNet or TCPware but what Compaq themselves supply for OpenVMS.  > or are you really saying that on top of OpenVMS licences which9 are not cheap people should also be spending 1500 dollars7 on getting a working IP stack.   Regards] Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2002 08:05:23 -0700% From: mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman)9> Subject: Re: VMS boottime - how to calculate # of days running< Message-ID: <1d08b916.0204120705.19f916c@posting.google.com>   Compaq ref:7   http://askq.compaq.com/askopenvms/askpage.asp?ask=How+to+compute+differences+between+two+dates&qsource=0&origin=80&site_name=cmpq8  " Or you can try this DCL procedure.   $! *** start here ***M! $ first_date=f$getsyi("boottime"). $ second_date=f$time() $! $ON_OUR_WAY: $!1 $!      Convert string to dd-mmm-yyyy hh:mm:ss.cce $!. $ date_one = F$CVTIME (first_date, "ABSOLUTE") $ hold_date = date_one/ $ date_two = F$CVTIME (second_date, "ABSOLUTE")4 $!F $!      Convert dates to form for comparison (yyyy-mmm-dd hh:mm:ss.cc) $!3 $ comp_date_one = F$CVTIME (date_one, "COMPARISON")s3 $ comp_date_two = F$CVTIME (date_two, "COMPARISON")d $!9 $!      Get the larger date in DATE_TWO and COMP_DATE_TWO[ $!: $ IF (comp_date_one .LES. comp_date_two) THEN GOTO NO_SWAP $ TEMP = date_one1 $ date_one = date_two, $ date_two = TEMP  $ hold_date = date_one $!F $!      Convert dates to form for comparison (yyyy-mmm-dd hh:mm:ss.cc) $!3 $ comp_date_one = F$CVTIME (date_one, "COMPARISON")73 $ comp_date_two = F$CVTIME (date_two, "COMPARISON")R $!  $!      fall through to continue $!	 $NO_SWAP:o $!E $!      check to see if second date is more than 10,000 days from the2 $!      first date:T* $ largest = date_one + "+9999-23:59:59.99"' $ test = f$cvtime(largest,"COMPARISON") 8 $ if (test .GTS. comp_date_two) THEN GOTO GET_ON_WITH_IT $!D $!      the second date is greater than 10,000 days greater than the. $!      first date - put out an error message: $! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT -B "  The second date is more than 10,000 days greater than the first date" % $ test = F$CVTIME(LARGEST,"ABSOLUTE")  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT -2 "  10,000 days greater than ",date_one," is ",test $ GOTO ENDING_JOBA $! $! $GET_ON_WITH_IT: $       flow = 0 $!' $!      Calculate answer to nearest day, $! $ L = 10000i $ form = "!AS- 0:0:0.0"2 $ GOTO ZERO_IN $R1: $!1 $!      set DAYS to the number of days difference= $!
 $ days = t $!( $!      Calculate answer to nearest hour $! $ L = 24 $ form = "0- !AS:0:0.0"  $ GOTO ZERO_IN $! $R2: $!) $!      set HOURS to the hours difference  $! $ hours = ti $!# $!      Calculate to nearest minutea $! $ L = 60 $ form = "0- 0:!AS:0.0"h $ GOTO ZERO_IN $! $R3: $!0 $!      set MINUTES to the minutes of difference $!
 $ minutes = t. $!# $!      Calculate to nearest second= $! $ L = 60 $ form = "0- 0:0:!AS.0"= $ GOTO ZERO_IN $! $R4: $!0 $!      set SECONDS to the seconds of difference $!
 $ seconds = th $!2 $!      Calculate to nearest hundredths of seconds $!	 $ L = 100e $ form = "0- 0:0:0.!AS"  $ GOTO ZERO_IN $! $R5: $!= $!      set HUNDREDTHS to hundredths of seconds of difference  $! $ hundredths = t $!- $!      get the day of the week for each date* $!1 $       day_one = F$CVTIME (hold_date,,"WEEKDAY") 0 $       day_two = F$CVTIME (date_two,,"WEEKDAY") $! $!      Output the answer. $! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT " " $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT " "F $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "  The difference between ", day_one,", ",hold_dateF $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "                     and ", day_two,", ", date_two $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO ( -)  " Is !ZL day!%S, !2ZL:!2ZL:!2ZL.!2ZL", -e+   days, hours, minutes,seconds, hundredths)i $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO ( ->  " (!ZL day!%S, !2ZL hours !2ZL minutes !2ZL.!2ZL seconds)", -,   days, hours, minutes, seconds, hundredths) $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT " " $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT " " $! $! END OF EXECUTION STREAM $! $ENDING_JOB: $ EXIT $!D $!      zero in procedure, the variable L contains the largest deltaF $!      value allowed for this field.  This routine does a binary chopF $!      from minimum value to the maximum value for each time variable+ $!      to isolate the correct delta value.c $!	 $ZERO_IN:s $!5 $!      Set initial lowest value parameter to minus 1l $! $ S = -1 $!@ $!      compute temporary variable value that is halfway betweenA $!      the least value we know is greater than the value we wanta? $!                      (initially this is the maximum value L)uE $!      and the greatest value we know is less than the value we wante< $!                      (initially this is -1 - stored in S) $! $ new_t = (S + L) / 2  $!F $!       initial value new_t= (-1 + maximum value)/2 = half of maximum $! $!       Top of loop $! $TRY_VALUE:. $! $!       set t equal to new_th $! $ t = new_tr $!C $!       Get character string representation of T in T_STR variablee $! $ t_str = "''t'" $!D $!       if this is a single digit preface it with a 0 to make it at< $!       least a 2 digit number (this is for accuracy in the 'hundredthso> $!       of seconds' computation, i.e. 2 is not the same as 02	 followingl $!       a decimal point). $!2 $ if f$length(t_str) .eq. 1 then t_str="0''t_str'" $!A $!       Use the FORM specified in the main flow to put the valuer? $!       of T_STR into the appropriate field of the ADD_TO_DATEu@ $!       variable (FORM for days is "!AS- 0:0:0.0", for hours is $!       "0- !AS:0:0.0", etc.) $!. $ add_to_date = F$FAO (form, F$STRING (T_str)) $!A $!       Compute TEST_DATE to be the smaller date (DATE_ONE) plusw& $!       the ADD_TO_DATE created above $!/ $ added_date = "date_one + ""+''add_to_date'"""o2 $ test_date = F$CVTIME ('added_date, "COMPARISON") $!@ $ IF  (test_date .LES. comp_date_two) THEN GOTO TRY_LARGER_VALUE $!F $!      fall through with computed test_date less than the larger date $!              entered. $!? $!       if the test date is less than the second date, then wenD $!       need a smaller delta value - so we want to lower new_t (and t)F $!       to a value half way between its current value and the largest number> $!       that we know to be smaller (initially this is the -1)+ $!       which is stored in the variable S.S $! $ new_t = (T + S) / 2n $!F $!       if the new value is equal to the delta value of this loop, we aree $!       done with this loop.a $!& $ IF new_t .EQ. t THEN GOTO VALUE_DONE $!D $!      recompute the smallest value that we know is larger than our, $!      date (variable L) to be our T value: $! $ L = Td $! $!      go to loop again:M $! $ GOTO TRY_VALUE $! $TRY_LARGER_VALUE: $!C $!       if the computed date is less than the second date, then we D $!       need a greater delta value - so we want to raise new_t (and t)B $!       to a value half way between its current value and a least numberA $!       that we know to be larger (initially this is the maximumf deltaS2 $!       value) which is stored in the variable L. $! $ new_t = (T + L) / 2n $!F $!      if the new_t value equals the t value, we have found our delta
 $!      value: $!& $ IF new_t .EQ. t THEN GOTO VALUE_DONE $!A $!      reset the least number know to be larger than our desireda valueg $!      to the current T value:9 $! $ S = Tl $! $!      go to top of loop: $! $ GOTO TRY_VALUE $! $VALUE_DONE: $!E $!      we have the delta value for our current testing loop - add it'+ $!      on to our lower date for comparison  $!B $ date_one = F$CVTIME (date_one + "+''F$FAO (Form,F$STRING (T))'", "ABSOLUTE")  $! $ flow = flow + 1n $!* $!                     return to main flow $!
 $ GOTO R'Flowg $! *** end ***     example:	 $ @uptimen $ @a    8   The difference between Tuesday, 5-MAR-2002 19:24:13.008                      and Friday, 12-APR-2002 16:02:00.81  Is 37 days, 20:37:47.81-  (37 days, 20 hours 37 minutes 47.81 seconds)1   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:23:53 +0100 (MET)j9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-9 Subject: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?.; Message-ID: <01KGHDHKW0W49EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  C After 5 years of almost continuous service, the RZ28D-E which came  I inside my ALPHAstation 255/233 (along with an RZ26) crashed recently.  I tE don't have the actual part number available (I am assuming that more eF than one type of physical disk would show up as an RZ26D-E.)  I would F like to know what disks (physical part numbers etc) of 2 GB or more I  could replace it with.  G I have an RZ29 which would fit physically, but I'm worried it might be dI too hot.  (It is currently in an InfoServer1000 and has run continuously gF there for years with no problem.  There is no drive immediately above  and below it, though.)  G Since the warranty has expired, it doesn't matter if the configuration iI is officially supported, but it should inofficially be guaranteed not to t cause problems.  :-|   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:30:47 -0600s% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>t= Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?oB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020412082843.00b1b620@raptor.psccos.com>  G I'm currently running a 9GB RZ1DB-CS in an AS 200/233, using one of the-G SCSI-3 to SCSI-2 adaptors you can buy for about $10.  I've been runningu  it for 3 years now, now problem.  E I think the moral of the story is, just about anything that will workBC or convert to SCSI-2 will do just fine.  I wouldn't put more than 1J( in the box, just to avoid heat problems.  , At 09:23 AM 4/12/2002, Phillip Helbig wrote:C >After 5 years of almost continuous service, the RZ28D-E which camefI >inside my ALPHAstation 255/233 (along with an RZ26) crashed recently.  ImE >don't have the actual part number available (I am assuming that moredF >than one type of physical disk would show up as an RZ26D-E.)  I wouldF >like to know what disks (physical part numbers etc) of 2 GB or more I >could replace it with.h >cG >I have an RZ29 which would fit physically, but I'm worried it might benI >too hot.  (It is currently in an InfoServer1000 and has run continuouslykF >there for years with no problem.  There is no drive immediately above >and below it, though.)  >tG >Since the warranty has expired, it doesn't matter if the configurationhI >is officially supported, but it should inofficially be guaranteed not to. >cause problems.  :-|s   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+-I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |nI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |kI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |cI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |WI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:36:04 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>g= Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?-; Message-ID: <01KGHE0ZR3GS9EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  I > I'm currently running a 9GB RZ1DB-CS in an AS 200/233, using one of thekI > SCSI-3 to SCSI-2 adaptors you can buy for about $10.  I've been running ! > it for 3 years now, no problem.E  ) I would probably put a SCSI-2 disk in it.   G > I think the moral of the story is, just about anything that will work E > or convert to SCSI-2 will do just fine.  I wouldn't put more than 1 * > in the box, just to avoid heat problems.  I It's the heat I'm worried about.  I want to keep the diskette drive, the  ) CD-ROM drive and the RZ26 inside as well.   I The fan has two speeds and automatically spins faster if it gets hotter. wH Only when it was very hot did the fan ever spin at the high speed, so I G assume that with the old configuration there was a bit of room to move. F If I put in a hotter disk, not only does it need to be cool enough at H the point where the thermostat is so that at normal ambient temperature B the fan is on low, but locally (i.e. beneath the CD-ROM drive) it ! shouldn't become too hot, either.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:43:10 -0600a% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> = Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233? B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020412084224.0425dde0@raptor.psccos.com>  , At 09:36 AM 4/12/2002, Phillip Helbig wrote:K > > I'm currently running a 9GB RZ1DB-CS in an AS 200/233, using one of the K > > SCSI-3 to SCSI-2 adaptors you can buy for about $10.  I've been running # > > it for 3 years now, no problem.  > * >I would probably put a SCSI-2 disk in it. > I > > I think the moral of the story is, just about anything that will work G > > or convert to SCSI-2 will do just fine.  I wouldn't put more than 17, > > in the box, just to avoid heat problems. > I >It's the heat I'm worried about.  I want to keep the diskette drive, the * >CD-ROM drive and the RZ26 inside as well.  K If you're going to keep an RZ26 inside, then don't put anything larger than"I an RZ28 in it.  Too much heat otherwise.  But why keep an RZ26 if you can. put, say, a 9gb drive in?   I >The fan has two speeds and automatically spins faster if it gets hotter._H >Only when it was very hot did the fan ever spin at the high speed, so IH >assume that with the old configuration there was a bit of room to move.F >If I put in a hotter disk, not only does it need to be cool enough atH >the point where the thermostat is so that at normal ambient temperatureB >the fan is on low, but locally (i.e. beneath the CD-ROM drive) it" >shouldn't become too hot, either.   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+tI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |-I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |mI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |nI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |nI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+8   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:49:00 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> = Subject: RE: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEAIEMAA.tom@kednos.com>m  < But don't throw away the 26's, somebody with a 3100 might be< very grateful to receive one, since that is the biggest boot8 drive you can use, and they don't make that small drives anymore.   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Dan O'Reilly [mailto:dano@process.com]& > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 7:43 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms? > Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?: >  > . > At 09:36 AM 4/12/2002, Phillip Helbig wrote:C > > > I'm currently running a 9GB RZ1DB-CS in an AS 200/233, using   > one of theA > > > SCSI-3 to SCSI-2 adaptors you can buy for about $10.  I've w > been running% > > > it for 3 years now, no problem.o > >o, > >I would probably put a SCSI-2 disk in it. > > K > > > I think the moral of the story is, just about anything that will workyI > > > or convert to SCSI-2 will do just fine.  I wouldn't put more than 1-. > > > in the box, just to avoid heat problems. > >9K > >It's the heat I'm worried about.  I want to keep the diskette drive, the , > >CD-ROM drive and the RZ26 inside as well. > B > If you're going to keep an RZ26 inside, then don't put anything 
 > larger than K > an RZ28 in it.  Too much heat otherwise.  But why keep an RZ26 if you canM > put, say, a 9gb drive in?l > K > >The fan has two speeds and automatically spins faster if it gets hotter.iJ > >Only when it was very hot did the fan ever spin at the high speed, so IJ > >assume that with the old configuration there was a bit of room to move.H > >If I put in a hotter disk, not only does it need to be cool enough atJ > >the point where the thermostat is so that at normal ambient temperatureD > >the fan is on low, but locally (i.e. beneath the CD-ROM drive) it$ > >shouldn't become too hot, either. >  > ------K > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+aK > | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | K > | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |aK > | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |pK > | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |eK > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+0 >    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:55:31 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>2= Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?a; Message-ID: <01KGHEJJI7I09EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  H > If you're going to keep an RZ26 inside, then don't put anything larger0 > than an RZ28 in it.  Too much heat otherwise.    OK._  < > But why keep an RZ26 if you can put, say, a 9gb drive in?   I I have things like DISK$SYSTEM (SYS$SYSDEVICE), DISK$USER, DISK$SCRATCH, =G DISK$SOFT, DISK$DATA etc.  The main reason is that the backup policies FH are different for each of these areas.  (Also---though that will change G now that I am moving to volume sets---it makes things easier if a disk eF crashes.)  Also (this is just a hobbyist system at home, after all) I G don't have any backup media which can handle a 9GB disk (anyone have a  I DLT drive for me? :-) ).  Yes, things can be done in other ways and I've 1I fooled around with volume sets, rooted logicals as pseudo-disks etc but  !I much prefer the situation where I have a physical disk (or a shadow set)  G of the appropriate size for the given logical area (scratch, user data V etc).a   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:00:30 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s= Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?-; Message-ID: <01KGHEU9JCY69EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>(  > > But don't throw away the 26's, somebody with a 3100 might be  > very grateful to receive one,   H Hey, I have 5 3100s myself!  I would never throw out a working piece of C DEC hardware! (Unless, like the PDP 11 I once stuffed into my Polo,rG various Microvax IIs etc, I only took it as part of a bulk pick-up withRD the intent to pass it on to someone else; when people throw out old F hardware, they usually like to get rid of it all at once, and I don't H have the heart to let the old things go into the skip, even if they are  too slow, hot etc for me.)  G > since that is the biggest boot drive you can use, and they don't make! > that small drives anymore. e   True.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:08:22 GMT!% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> 1 Subject: Re: Why VMS is "unhackable" lesson 1 ...t8 Message-ID: <vq0ebuggmglvprbf1duc4s322tqaqmujeu@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:38:40 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy!3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:c   >  > 
 >jlsue wrote:m >"   >> !G >> Well, I guess you could call that a bug.  But what it highlighted tooF >> me was the fact that *anyone* could write their own ping to exploitC >> the same vulnerabilities.  The win32 ping just made it that muchR >> easier for people.  >> e >U >E= >Of course you could write your own ping on win32 for example=? >but why bother when you could say ping "horribly and illegally : >large packet size" without ping complaining or truncating
 >your packet.a >t  E Um... isn't that what I just said in the last sentence?  Did you even" read that far?  @ But calling that a bug in ping is like blaming the breweries and distilleries for drunk driving."  C Imho, the problem was in the TCP/IP stacks themselves - they shouldF7 have truncated or rejected packets that were too large.a  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq$- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)Z   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.202 ************************