1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 15 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 207       Contents:6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures < Clean Water Tech - New Technologies                TSAKMSFBN cluster  Re: cluster  Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! 0 Info-VAX , Your first targeted e-mailing is FREE RE: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles! Re: Java with the WASD webserver. " Re: learning how to use a computer> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)$ OT Best Practises in the IT Industry( Re: OT Best Practises in the IT Industry( Re: OT Best Practises in the IT IndustryP Out of Office AutoReply: Shape shifting reptilians are about to a	chieve complet0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger! Re: Rotted Link in OpenVMS FAQP Shape shifting reptilians are about to achieve complete control over this planet! Re: VMS 7.2-1 to 7.2.2- Follow Up   Wondering about a new home loan?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:45:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. , Message-ID: <3CB9CE5D.EADA1969@videotron.ca>   nortools wrote:  >  > Hi, G > Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and then A > remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces, 8 > leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711.    a = f$time()   "14-APR-2002 14:33:17.94"   ( b= a - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - "." "14APR200214331794"     N the minus operator removes the first occurance of the character in the string.' eg: "14-APR-2002"  - "-" = "14APR-2002"   / if you want just the date and on one line only: ( b - f$extract(0,11,f$time()) - "-" - "-"   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 13:48:18 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. 3 Message-ID: <zTQsDRNUEpDg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <27d25fc7.0204140812.397340d8@posting.google.com>, norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk (nortools) writes:  > Hi, G > Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and then A > remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces, G > leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is without B > having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate,H > f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure worksG > but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved  > in less lines than this. > Thanks  < $ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$time()) - "-" - "-" $ show symbol dashless* "   DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY = "14APR2002"   			Rob   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 15:53:40 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. 3 Message-ID: <LwSIH9alj$Xg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <zTQsDRNUEpDg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: y > In article <27d25fc7.0204140812.397340d8@posting.google.com>, norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk (nortools) writes:  >> Hi,H >> Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and thenB >> remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces,H >> leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is withoutC >> having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate, I >> f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure works H >> but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved >> in less lines than this. 	 >> Thanks  > > > $ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$time()) - "-" - "-" > $ show symbol dashless* $ >   DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY = "14APR2002" >  > 			Rob  < 	That was bad.  It breaks on the first of the month when the: 	first character is a space.  What you probably want to di/ 	is something like this and peel the parts out:    $ time = f$time()  $ day = f$cvtime(time,,"day")  $ mon = f$cvtime(time,,"month")  $ year = f$cvtime(time,,"year")  $ hour = f$cvtime(time,,"hour")   $ min = f$cvtime(time,,"minute")% $ ddmmmhhmin = day + mon + hour + min   8 	That and the fact you probably aren't after the year...   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 14:20:49 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. = Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204141320.105e50e4@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CB9CE5D.EADA1969@videotron.ca>... * > b= a - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - "."  E Or, to meet Rob's objection about not working during the first 9 days , of the month, when there is a leading space:1   b = a - " " - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - "." A This works because if the subtract operator cannot find the given 6 substring, it ignores the operation without any error.. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:29:22 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. & Message-ID: <3CB9F4B2.5030907@home.nl>   Yep   < $mytime = F$time() - "-" - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - "."   Regards,   Dirk   nortools wrote:    >Hi,F >Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and then@ >remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces,F >leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is withoutA >having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate, G >f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure works F >but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved >in less lines than this.  >Thanks  >N >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:19:00 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. , Message-ID: <3CBA0054.7060607@tsoft-inc.com>  	 Nice Rob.    Rob Young wrote:  y > In article <27d25fc7.0204140812.397340d8@posting.google.com>, norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk (nortools) writes:  >  >>Hi, G >>Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and then A >>remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces, G >>leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is without B >>having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate,H >>f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure worksG >>but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved  >>in less lines than this. >>Thanks >> > > > $ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$time()) - "-" - "-" > $ show symbol dashless* $ >   DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY = "14APR2002" >  > 			Rob >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:17:48 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. , Message-ID: <3CBA000C.2010204@tsoft-inc.com>  Q Yep, almost 14 lines.  13 to be exact, but possibly a few could be eliminated if  N you wanted to combine some actions.  Might have been able to use less symbols M also.  I also end up with 2 result symbols, which would allow 1 less line if   only one result was desired.   $ Z = F$TIME() $ D = F$EXTRACT(0,2,Z)? $ if F$EXTRACT(0,1,D) .EQS. " " then D = "0" + F$EXTRACT(1,1,D)  $ D = F$EDIT(D,"TRIM") $ M = F$EXTRACT(3,3,Z) $ Y = F$EXTRACT(9,2,Z) $ H = F$EXTRACT(12,2,Z)  $ N = F$EXTRACT(15,2,Z) < $ X = F$LOCATE( M , "JANFEBMARAPRMAYJUNJULAUGSEPOCTNOVDEC" ) $ M = (X+3) / 3 $ $ if M .LT. 10 then M = "0" + "''M'"" $ DA_TE = "''Y'" + "''M'" + "''D'" $ TI_ME = "''H'" + "''N'"   2 Ok, for the exercize, it can be shrunk to 4 lines.   $ Z = F$TIME() $ D = F$EXTRACT(0,2,Z)? $ if F$EXTRACT(0,1,D) .EQS. " " then D = "0" + F$EXTRACT(1,1,D) > $ write sys$output "''F$EXTRACT(7,4,Z)'''F$EXTRACT(3,3,Z)'''D'Q ''F$EXTRACT(12,2,Z)'''F$EXTRACT(15,2,Z)'''F$EXTRACT(18,2,Z)'''F$EXTRACT(21,2,Z)'"    nortools wrote:    > Hi, G > Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and then A > remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces, G > leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is without B > having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate,H > f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure worksG > but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved  > in less lines than this. > Thanks > N  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:51:50 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. ' Message-ID: <3CBA42DC.2433D088@fsi.net>    Rob Young wrote: > c > In article <zTQsDRNUEpDg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: { > > In article <27d25fc7.0204140812.397340d8@posting.google.com>, norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk (nortools) writes:  > >> Hi,J > >> Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and thenD > >> remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces,J > >> leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is withoutE > >> having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate, K > >> f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure works J > >> but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved > >> in less lines than this.  > >> Thanks  > > @ > > $ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$time()) - "-" - "-" > > $ show symbol dashless* & > >   DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY = "14APR2002" > >  > >                       Rob  > E >         That was bad.  It breaks on the first of the month when the & >         first character is a space.   ' $ A = F$CVTIME( , "ABSOLUTE", "DATE" )    H ...solves that problem. It is returned without the leading space in days 1 through 9, AFAIK.   % $ B = F$EDIT( A, "TRIM" ) - "-" - "-"   H ...takes care of any leading/trailing space and de-dashes the string, no matter how you got it.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 10:21:31 -0800* From: Floyd Davidson <floyd@ptialaska.net>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures' Message-ID: <87it6u2las.fld@barrow.com>   8 ssthapa@classes.cs.uchicago.edu (Suchandra Thapa) wrote:/ >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >> Eric Smith wrote:J >>> In the Linux world there seem to be people who insist that it's reallyK >>> important to have a swap that's at least 3x the size of physical.  That L >>> might be OK as a rule of thumb for newbies who don't have a grasp of theK >>> memory usage on their system, but a fair number of people seem to think F >>> that this is a general dogma, and have made pronouncements of dire) >>> consequences for those who ignore it.  >>   >>  Q >> When a significant proportion of users of an OS install it on "spare" hardware M >> (eg: old stuff), then you will find that a significant porportion of users X >> will need swap and paging files because their system isn't setup with gigs of memory. >  > H >    Actually, linux itself is pretty bad about handling virtual memory.K >The 2.4 kernels needed the swap space to be at least twice the size of the L >physical memory due to the way the VM works.  Swap space isn't reclaimed soL >pages can be duplicated in memory and swap.  So having swap space the same N >size as your physical memory doesn't do anything if you are swapping heavily.  ? That was true for a very short time, but is not true of current  2.4 kernels.   --  ; Floyd L. Davidson         <http://www.ptialaska.net/~floyd> ; Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                 floyd@barrow.com    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 13:04:42 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures0 Message-ID: <qhy9fqrqqt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>   "Eric Smith"  wrote H > In the Linux world there seem to be people who insist that it's reallyI > important to have a swap that's at least 3x the size of physical.  That J > might be OK as a rule of thumb for newbies who don't have a grasp of theI > memory usage on their system, but a fair number of people seem to think D > that this is a general dogma, and have made pronouncements of direF > consequences for those who ignore it.  Like most dogma, they have no  > rational justification for it.  7 "Tarjei T. Jensen" <tarjei.jensen@kvaerner.com> writes: 5 > There was a time when this rule made perfect sense.   > Only as a rule of thumb for newbies.  It *NEVER* made sense asA a general rule, because it doesn't take into account the usage of G the system, nor the amount of physical memory.  You might need no swap, G or only a little, or a heck of a lot.  "3x" is completely arbitrary and 9 bears no necessary relation to what you'll actually need.   F Virtual memory requirements are determined by system usage, not by the physical memory size.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 13:07:03 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures0 Message-ID: <qhu1qerqmw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>   Eric Smith wrote: H > In the Linux world there seem to be people who insist that it's reallyI > important to have a swap that's at least 3x the size of physical.  That J > might be OK as a rule of thumb for newbies who don't have a grasp of theI > memory usage on their system, but a fair number of people seem to think D > that this is a general dogma, and have made pronouncements of dire' > consequences for those who ignore it.   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: G > When a significant proportion of users of an OS install it on "spare" A > hardware (eg: old stuff), then you will find that a significant C > porportion of users will need swap and paging files because their ) > system isn't setup with gigs of memory.   C That's not an acceptable excuse for installers that REFUSE to allow B the user to not set up a swap, or that make it really difficult to	 avoid it.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 14:30:51 -0800* From: Floyd Davidson <floyd@ptialaska.net>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures' Message-ID: <87ofgl29r8.fld@barrow.com>   4 Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> wrote: >"Eric Smith"  wroteI >> In the Linux world there seem to be people who insist that it's really J >> important to have a swap that's at least 3x the size of physical.  ThatK >> might be OK as a rule of thumb for newbies who don't have a grasp of the J >> memory usage on their system, but a fair number of people seem to thinkE >> that this is a general dogma, and have made pronouncements of dire G >> consequences for those who ignore it.  Like most dogma, they have no ! >> rational justification for it.  > 8 >"Tarjei T. Jensen" <tarjei.jensen@kvaerner.com> writes:6 >> There was a time when this rule made perfect sense. > ? >Only as a rule of thumb for newbies.  It *NEVER* made sense as B >a general rule, because it doesn't take into account the usage of  C Actually it did make sense... just never for Linux.  But it did for * BSD Unix and for SysV back about R2 or R3.  H >the system, nor the amount of physical memory.  You might need no swap,H >or only a little, or a heck of a lot.  "3x" is completely arbitrary and: >bears no necessary relation to what you'll actually need. >iG >Virtual memory requirements are determined by system usage, not by the  >physical memory size.   -- d; Floyd L. Davidson         <http://www.ptialaska.net/~floyd>i; Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                 floyd@barrow.comq   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:20:15 +0200e* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures/ Message-ID: <3CBA0EAF.5060002@brussels.sgi.com>e   Peter da Silva wrote:e  I > There's a lot of systems that have a tmpfs like that. I'm not sure whateM > advantage it has over a regular UFS partition mounted "async" and recreatedl; > on boot, so long as you have a good unified VM subsystem.N >   C You can select which files get pinned in memory. Of course, you cannG also do that by mmapping() said files in a process that refuses to die, @ but somehow many people don't use that trick (even though I do).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:23:01 +0200r* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures/ Message-ID: <3CBA0F55.6030500@brussels.sgi.com>    Peter da Silva wrote:t  ? >> I have rarely found kernel memory dumps particularly useful.     ! Well, I have, and just as rarely.e  ? I'm not saying you need them often -- but *when* you need them,r< you'd better have them at hand - I don't climb rocks withoutB a safety rope either, even though the intent is never to rely upon it ;).  ? And no, the information I got out of there wasn't in the kernelt printf() buffers.7   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 20:34:26 -0700* From: Dowe Keller <dowe@krikkit.127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures. Message-ID: <m3hemd1vp9.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1>  5 Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes:t  E > That's not an acceptable excuse for installers that REFUSE to allow D > the user to not set up a swap, or that make it really difficult to > avoid it.t  B For every development group, there will be *at least* one fasistic moron.  C Surely, this has to be a law atributed to someone (It's too obvious  not to be).    -- P4 dowe@sierratel.com			<http://www.sierratel.com/dowe>H In less than a century, computers will be making substantial progress on, ... the overriding problem of war and peace. 		-- James Slagle"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:25:23 -1600 - From: "Department43" <xcm258@interlap.com.ar>-E Subject: Clean Water Tech - New Technologies                TSAKMSFBN_< Message-ID: <00004a2f33c3$00000aa1$0000419b@mail.arabia.com>   CLEAN WATER TECHNOLOGIES, INC.   Symbol: CWTI Exchange: OTCBBn Recent Price: .50g 52 Week Range: .31-1.897 Shares Outstanding: 5.7 millionl  E Clean Water Technologies (CWTI) is an exciting environmental company  E selling at an attractively low price. CWTI recently received initial eH revenues from their patented (U.S. patent #6,042,731) process to safely H remove arsenic from drinking water. They also plan to apply for listing I on the new Bulletin Board Exchange, which is expected to start next year.c  N Late Friday, a CWTI press release announced that they signed a non-disclosure P agreement with an environmental company developing a number of new technologies.  L A quick look at the three year chart (see below) shows that the stock price M has rallied from the current level at .50 up to $2.00 and higher on numerous -L occasions. It has been building a base in this area for the last 6 months.  - To review chart,please click the below link. ae http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=cwti&sid=0&o_symb=cwti&freq=2&time=10t  K In addition to their arsenic business, Clean Water acquired Zorax, Inc. in uO September 2000. The company has an exclusive license to manufacture and market mL the cryptosporidium and giardia extraction process developed with the Johns N Hopkins University. The company made an initial royalty payment to the school  last month.h  K As of the end of the quarter, only 1.6 million shares were in the floating  I supply, so a small amount of buying could move the price up dramatically.   P Now that we are back in a bull market for small capitalization stocks, consider L CWTI as a development stage company about to emerge as a pure play on the  oil of the 21st century: Water.h  \ To subscribe to future communications click here: mailto:klast20@uol.com.co?subject=Sub-CWTI^ To unsubscribe from future communication click here: mailto:sungold99@uol.com.co?subject=Unsub  : **********************************************************  R DISCLAIMER: The above profile is not a solicitation to buy or sell securities and R this does not purport to be a complete analysis of the company mentioned. Nothing Q in this Newsletter should be construed as investment advice. Purchase of this or vY any security may be considered speculative, and may result in the loss of any investment aQ made. A shareholder of Clean Water Technologies, Inc. paid a fee of ten thousand  F dollars to Network Media Services for the circulation of this report. a To read additional aspects of disclaimer click here: http://ert124nb.tripod.com.ar/DISCLAIMER.htm4   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:40:03 +1200.& From: A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> Subject: clusterG Message-ID: <BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FFCBCB01@exchsvr.FSC.COM.FJ>e  J I have two node (A & B)  forming a cluster and  both connected on shadowedI environment.  On node A I have $1$dka0, on node B its $2$dka0.  these twowL disks are shadowed. When I boot each node, it couldn't recognised the member6 of the shadow set.  Its says no such device available.K On Node A... this error message appeared "$2$dka0 failed as a member of theg shadow set"-< On Node B ... "$1$dka0 failed as a member of the shadow set"  I When I do a show cluster on each node....it shows only the  current node.   ? Can someone advise how to configure these two nodes properly.      Asenam   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:02:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: cluster, Message-ID: <3CBA6CFA.D72F4CD9@videotron.ca>   A Bonaveidogo wrote:L > I have two node (A & B)  forming a cluster and  both connected on shadowedK > environment.  On node A I have $1$dka0, on node B its $2$dka0.  these two$N > disks are shadowed. When I boot each node, it couldn't recognised the member8 > of the shadow set.  Its says no such device available.M > On Node A... this error message appeared "$2$dka0 failed as a member of the-
 > shadow set"-> > On Node B ... "$1$dka0 failed as a member of the shadow set"   did this function before ?  K The information above means that B's drives are not available to A and vice. versa. s  H There are many ways to share drives. The simplest is MSCP. Essentially aL process on each machine which makes its own drives available to other nodes.9 In sysgen, SHOW/CLUSTER will reveals the MSCP parameters:e) 	MSCP_LOAD 			(start the MSCP software ?) B 	MSCP_SERVE_ALL		(if MSCP started, what types of disks to serve ?)  C (HELP SYS MSCP_SERVE_ALL in sysgen will give you more information).u  @ There are other ways to share drives, such as a shared SCSI bus.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:49:08 -0700s- From: "Douglas B Rupp" <rupp@nospam_gnat.com>a& Subject: Re: GNU cc vs VMS CC listings- Message-ID: <3cb9e086.0@topcat.tabbygnat.com>d  L GEM is not used in Gnu C (or GNAT), although Gnu C 3.1  (and GNAT 5) for VMSG uses some of the same compiler support routines (from LIBOTS) as Compaq-
 compilers.   --Douglas Rupp Ada Core Technologies, Inc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:02:46 GMTm% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>s6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!8 Message-ID: <vj9kbuohrkjst709oddeb8iua75fdkn1ua@4ax.com>  , On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:21:24 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:b  
 >jlsue wrote:sG >> What a laugh.  Andy-boy giving advice.  Like anyone in here respectso@ >> this doofus and his elevated-opinion-of-himself-ramblings (as% >> perfectly evidenced in this post).= >"M >Like anyone here respects those who feel compelled to insult Andrew anythingXK >they can. We are smart enough to filter out the fluff from Andrew and takeAI >some of the tidbits that sometimes make sense. There is no real need for.D >Digital employees to make a point of insulting Andrew all the time. >   A Hey, if he's going to stick his head out, it's gonna get whacked.eD If he wants to have discussions that retain respect and dignity then# he'll have to start doing the same.D  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/CompaqT- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)5   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:42:49 -0400i) From: "Info-VAX" <Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com.>t9 Subject: Info-VAX , Your first targeted e-mailing is FREEo" Message-ID: <5068280@MVB.SAIC.COM>  
 =3Chtml=3E  
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 =3C=2Fhtml=3ED   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:21:51 -04004+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>F Subject: RE: Itanium troubles3T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1E6B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Paul,g  @ Re: Disaster backup sites overflowing with other Customers ..=20  @ You are correct and there is some additional items to consider -  H 1. Disaster tolerant "rental" sites typically cost in the range of $200kC USD per year (every year) - just to have the equipment and space onsD standby. Now, if implemented, the daily rates are often in excess ofE $10K USD per day. Think about what the final costs would be to go out3B and build / find a new site - optimistically 3 months. Now add theH complexity associated with many other Customers also looking for similar spare datacenter space.3  B 2. Based on issues discovered in point 1.), some Customers are nowB questioning whether 2 sites is enough i.e. perhaps 3 site clustersC (active-active-passive?) are the right approach for the future? BigeB issue is that if the primary site goes away permanently, then thatF business must run  everything on a single site and that is a huge risk to their business.=20E  H Question for future discussion - does the disaster recovery site you are5 renting from have a backup site? Some do, some don't.F  B 3. While obviously not for everyone, keep in mind that the cost ofF multi-site solutions for those that are looking at them typically haveH downtimes that mean even a few hours would pay for all the multi-site HWH and software. That does not even consider that Vendors credibility as anF online financial provider. Picture becomes even more critical when one@ considers the ever extending times for online financial trading.  A 4. While bandwidth and latency are always going to be issues withiD multi-site clusters, keep in mind that for large centers, Cisco (andF others in that space) already offer 10Gb WAN solutions today with 40Gb demonstrated.=20   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant= Compaq Canada Corp.i Professional ServicesT Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----6 From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]=20 Sent: April 14, 2002 3:00 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles     % Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net> writes:2  1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:t  I > > This is where a solution such as PMDF or ALL-IN1/office-server can=20zJ > > realy make a difference because they can run on a disaster-tolerant=20J > > cluster with all emails preserved in case of a disaster. Heck, with=20F > > ALL-IN-1, they can use character cell terminals to access their=20; > > emails until their PCs are operational on the new site.t  I > Oh come on, the WTC disaster was unprecedented. Those towers were so=20sJ > large companies thought off-site was a different floor, the basement,=20F > or the other tower. One large company I know only had backups for=20H > their WTC office somewhere other than the disaster zone due to one guy  $ > who thought he was being paranoid.  I > Even if part of this disaster-tolerant cluster had been offsite, the=20C= > chances are high the connectivity would have been lost too.   F They had their chance to learn from the WTC bombing. Several companiesA found them selves up the creek because the recovery site thay had3F contracted was overflowing with *other* WTC occupants. If that was notF enough of a wake up call for them, then I doubt anything ever will be.   --=20 < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.eE                                              West Australia 6076 Raw, G Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the ( future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 20:12:39 -0400# From: Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net>3 Subject: Re: Itanium troublesG/ Message-ID: <87elhhn7k8.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>W  , Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> writes:  I > That's exactly why I have reverted to writing documents in LaTeX rathertF > than the "office suite du jour"; at Sun, we've gone from using Frame6 > almsot exclusively to Applixware and not Staroffice.  F I think Latex is a very good format also. I use something like it when< producing documents which might have a reasonably long life.  B When producing short-lived things you can't beat plain ascii text,0 especially for the built-in entertainment e.g. :   o  bulleted points o  like this o  sometimes lead to questions o  about how I "do that"     ChrisR -- YH Chris Morgan <cm at mihalis.net>                  http://www.mihalis.net        Temp sig. - Enquire within   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 20:19:12 -0400# From: Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net>b Subject: Re: Itanium troublesa/ Message-ID: <87bscln79b.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>b  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  H > > Even if part of this disaster-tolerant cluster had been offsite, the? > > chances are high the connectivity would have been lost too.i > H > They had their chance to learn from the WTC bombing. Several companiesC > found them selves up the creek because the recovery site thay had9D > contracted was overflowing with *other* WTC occupants. If that wasH > not enough of a wake up call for them, then I doubt anything ever will > be.n  E When I moved to NYC from London, I did realise what disaster recovery E meant more than many people I met here - it means what to do when the C whole primary is just _gone_ e.g. the Baltic Exchange and Docklands @ bombings. That used to be unimaginable here for a lot of people,' that's why it was such a shock to them.  --  H Chris Morgan <cm at mihalis.net>                  http://www.mihalis.net        Temp sig. - Enquire within   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 20:24:43 -0400# From: Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net>F Subject: Re: Itanium troubles3/ Message-ID: <878z7pn704.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>   4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > > In article <87pu13n5rf.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>, Chris Morgan > <cm@mihalis.net> wrote:2 >  > G > >Even if part of this disaster-tolerant cluster had been offsite, the6> > >chances are high the connectivity would have been lost too. > K > If the site is lost, it doesn't matter if the connectivity to the site is D > lost as well.  The remaining site(s) in the cluster can continue.   @ No, sorry, you misunderstand my point. As I posted in a separateD posting, some "offsite data centers" lost (most) connectivity to theC world in general due to the WTC and Verizon damage as well as theirrB master sites. Fairly obviously some types of computer service need) connectivity to be considered in service.    > J > There _were_ disaster-tolerant VMS clusters in the WTC on September 11. H > The other site(s) kept working, there was no downtime, and no data wasG > lost.  (Well, there would have been a cluster-transition delay, which 9 > defaults to 30 seconds.) The theory worked in practice.   C Well, there were other sites which didn't suffer any pysical damage D whatsoever that were (mostly) down at site and at ODC, so we're just talking about different cases. s -- nH Chris Morgan <cm at mihalis.net>                  http://www.mihalis.net        Temp sig. - Enquire within   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:48:42 +0930=/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>-* Subject: Re: Java with the WASD webserver., Message-ID: <3CBA0042.90803@wasd.vsm.com.au>   Doc.Cypher wrote: K > I've got a user who is interested in using Java with the webserver I haveVM > here. That's WASD v7.1. I'll do an update to the v7.2.2 version sometime in=I > the next week, but the user reports that similar problems to those here2) > exist with Mark's demo server and Java.= > D > If anyone has any experience of getting Java running with the WASDE > webserver I'd appreciate some information on how they got it going.2 >  >  > Doc.  J I hadn't given the [JAVA]JAVA.COM wrapper much attention in quite a while L even though there'd been a couple of Compaq OpenVMS Java releases.  The old G version worked with a tweak for the newer Java directory locations and  L structures but I recently put together (rather quickly I might add, so it's I probably less than optimal) a procedure that should also work for future gL releases that follow the same naming schema, etc.  It just happens to be in I the (until now) unannounced 7.2.2 update release.  Anyone else how would  5 like it before/without the the update can get it fromn  '    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/java/    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Apr 2002 19:12:21 GMT From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu+ Subject: Re: learning how to use a computerr) Message-ID: <a9ckal$qcc$2@nyheter.crt.se>   8 In comp.os.vms Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  - > <phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu> wrote in message % > news:a9c8cs$f3j$6@nyheter.crt.se...    > ...3  C >> You still have to educate every user to avoid the most dangerous I >> thing's -like "do not spam", "do not klick on every link you see", "do * >> not run every program you are pffered". >>= >> Why should education to get the most of e-mail be wrong ??=  J > There's nothing wrong with educating people to get the best use out of aH > well-designed tool.  What's wrong is thinking that there's no point inL > designing the tool well because users can always be taught to adapt to its
 > foibles.  M > IIRC this discussion began on the topic of using hard-link-style mechanisms=N > to avoid major space waste with bulk mailing of large email attachments.  ItI > was suggested, I believe incorrectly, that there was no reason to do so L > because users should just be educated not to keep such attachments around,M > or to provide pointers to central locations rather than attach large items.E  G > The first suggestion is tantamount to saying that no software has anyrM > impetus to operate efficiently because users can be educated to work aroundtI > any problems - which may be Microsoft's attitude but is not one I agree N > with.  The second suggestion  1) forces users outside their mail environmentK > to view such referenced objects,  2) decouples the referenced object from L > the associated message (e.g., the object can disappear, which would not beN > the case with the hard-link approach),  3) requires that a suitable locationK > be found in which to place the referenced object, and  4) tends to exposeoJ > the referenced object to unrestricted view by a wider audience than thatL > targeted by the message (e.g., by Web 'bots) - all of which impede ease ofH > use (after all, if such indirect references *were* easier to use, then& > people would already be using them).  K I agree to your points here ( discussion started elsewhere and subject was r different )   D I do not think however that mailing a link to a web/ftp server would= "force someone outside their normal environment" . In fact i  B would recommend that this is the normal actions inside a corporate? "intranet" ( where you would expect stuff like exchange) , and s> i also think it's "good practices" to make space available forC documents that should be available for a larger ( but closed group) B of inside readers. In fact, this would be the actual storage placeE for importent documents, available when all recipients have thrown it2) away "since it must be stored somewhere".o  C As regards for security needs, yes, sometimes this procedures would3F be wrong. Good education and awareness of whats appropiate is shureley needed.=       > - bill         -- o Peter Hkanson          K         IPSec  Sverige      (At the Riverside of Gothenburg, home of Volvo) J            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out.& 	   Remove "icke-reklam" and it works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:31:25 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>dG Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)2, Message-ID: <3CB9CAFD.54E1DA60@videotron.ca>   Nick Maclaren wrote:@ > But one hallmark of good engineering design is that it makes a@ > complex system as easy, safe and efficient to use as possible.= > Unnecessary difficulty of use is a sure sign of bad design.   L A GUI system is not much different than a character cell menu system such asL ALL-I-1: it removes the need to remember the commands and what arguments are+ needed and shows you what your options are.i  J The GUI does it in a more aestetically pleasing manner than character cellI menu system. GUI and character cell menus save some time because you just=I tab/point to the field and type in the value instead of havin to type theN field name and value.   N But does the user interface actually simplify the job ? No. It is the software" behind it that simplifies the job.  K I can create a user name on VMS in a few seconds with ALL-IN-1. Type in the3G username, the user's name, and profile and optionally his phone number,=N address etc, and press return. Voila. Username created, user directory createdG and set to the right ownership etc etc. Or I can create a username with2L authorize specifying all the parameters one wants for that account, manually/ create the directory and set its onwership etc.3  M Now, you can have some fancy Windows GUI that helps you create VMS usernames. M But is that much different in functionality from the ALL-IN-1 way of creatingz a username ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:15:28 GMTr  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)K+ Message-ID: <3CB9FF79.C0F01138@prodigy.net>=   Bill Todd wrote: >  <snip>J > And just as with the computer, *major* advances were made in simplifyingM > automobile operation over the years (and not just the early years, as we'retG > still in with computers):  automatic transmissions, automatic chokes,oL > self-regulating fuel systems (ever balanced a pair of SU carburetors?) andL > ignition systems (remember 'points'?), automated convertible tops, poweredN > starters, horns, and windshield wipers, ...  Computers will make it possibleJ > to simplify automobile operation even more, possibly even to automate itK > fully - but doing this with the hazardous real-time system and incrediblynN > complex environment that is the realm of the automobile will require a greatE > deal more care and effort than simplifying the interface of desktop=& > computers as we currently know them. > I > When computers have been in common use for as many human generations as J > automobiles have now, expect their use to be similarly in-grained in theK > social psyche - in part because the complexity of operating them has been22 > reduced, and standardized, as much as practical. >  > - bill    K FWIW, the owner's manual for my new Saturn is MUCH thicker than was the one I for my 1960 Comet, and I don't think much of that is because it is better=$ written.  Cars are MORE complex now.  J It's a little like tax simplification which, I am told, added thousands of: pages to the Tax Code.  The simplification is euphemistic.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:02:22 GMT=) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)E- Subject: OT Best Practises in the IT Industryc2 Message-ID: <3cba0910.2140347667@news.wcc.govt.nz>  	 Hi Chaps,   E Not strictly VMS, but hey this is my favourite and most informed Newsa Group! OK, grovelling over.... ( I've been hit with a report that states:1 Minimum 30 day password expiry as "Best Practise"C  9 Well I've seen 30, 60, 120 and 180 depending on the site.E  ? Anyone know of any IT Standards Pages that have a list of "Best3 Practises" sA Tried Google but I'm probably looking for a General Policies Site ! rather than a this is our Policy.E  C I'm aware of reaons against shorter password expiry e.g. Users moredD likely to write it down and leave it in their desk drawer! So, again> I'm not really looking for the pros and cons, just a, probably mythical, Best Practises site.   Many thanks,   Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:33:53 +0100-4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>1 Subject: Re: OT Best Practises in the IT Industrym8 Message-ID: <174kbugiuh616jshp044hsg6tuego20jse@4ax.com>  L On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:02:22 GMT, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) wrote:  
 >Hi Chaps, >iF >Not strictly VMS, but hey this is my favourite and most informed News >Group!d >OK, grovelling over....) >I've been hit with a report that states:y2 >Minimum 30 day password expiry as "Best Practise" > : >Well I've seen 30, 60, 120 and 180 depending on the site. > @ >Anyone know of any IT Standards Pages that have a list of "Best >Practises" B >Tried Google but I'm probably looking for a General Policies Site" >rather than a this is our Policy. >aD >I'm aware of reaons against shorter password expiry e.g. Users moreE >likely to write it down and leave it in their desk drawer! So, againn? >I'm not really looking for the pros and cons, just a, probablys >mythical, Best Practises site.e  I Good luck in your search.  I definitely agree that being forced to changeuL passwords too often simply results in users writing them down, especially if0 they have accounts in multiple security domains.  K If you choose a secure password (for some value of secure), then why changeaF it unless you have definite evidence of someone brute-force guessing ?  J I use the initial letters of phrases that I doubt anyone would guess (they tend to be insulting :-))r     	John    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2002 19:12:07 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o1 Subject: Re: OT Best Practises in the IT Industrye3 Message-ID: <SOtJ2SDzxsBU@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  ^ In article <3cba0910.2140347667@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) writes: > Hi Chaps,b > G > Not strictly VMS, but hey this is my favourite and most informed News, > Group! > OK, grovelling over.... * > I've been hit with a report that states:3 > Minimum 30 day password expiry as "Best Practise"= > ; > Well I've seen 30, 60, 120 and 180 depending on the site.  > A > Anyone know of any IT Standards Pages that have a list of "Best0
 > Practises" yC > Tried Google but I'm probably looking for a General Policies Sitei# > rather than a this is our Policy.e > E > I'm aware of reaons against shorter password expiry e.g. Users moremF > likely to write it down and leave it in their desk drawer! So, again@ > I'm not really looking for the pros and cons, just a, probably  > mythical, Best Practises site. >   > 	90 days is what I have seen in several places.  Best practiceA 	is to get tokens and seems a lot of places are going that route. A 	After all, passwords alone are very vulnerable in a lot of ways.c  = 	Had a client... calls me up irate.  Seems *she* (not me) goto? 	her password scheme messed up on my platform.  Since it is thes> 	same thing everywhere, she wanted me to put it back (i.e. her@ 	email password, platform X password, platform Y password, etc.)B 	Problem was she had gone too long (or not long enough, don't knowD 	which, don't care) and my system was not letting her use SPRING2002* 	as her password telling her "try again."   @ 	So... of course I set it to what she wanted.  Dread the thoughtB 	of her complaining to her boss, the folks I work with (am I easy?> 	Not really... but we all know the dreaded ones exist in every 	organization) , etc.e  F 	I wonder what percentage of people that require 90 day expiration useC 	the season?  And if you lower it to 30 days... how may folks would " 	have APRIL2002 as their password?   				Robb   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:06:43 -0500 4 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com>Y Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Shape shifting reptilians are about to a	chieve completd? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE03C6DB9E@AMCLVX11>   L I will be out of the office returning on April 17th, 2002.  If this email isI of urgent nature, please contact Brian Livaich at (216) 525-7499 or KevinI Smith at (216) 525-7490.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:04:17 GMTu% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>I9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!n8 Message-ID: <in9kbuc8nvbnddijtm5gr6b1hrbvreds1d@4ax.com>  , On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:45:25 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:r   >Glenn Everhart wrote: >> hO >> I for one am happy to hear that there has been some confirmation HP does not  >> plan to abolish VMS.d >i >What confirmation ? >a/ >Rumours of a letter don't a confirmation make.m  D While this may be true, this is closer to the source than some folks) in here pontificating their own opinions.R  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:42:27 -04002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!w, Message-ID: <3CBA5A31.95F5C2A1@videotron.ca>   jlsue wrote:1 > >Rumours of a letter don't a confirmation make.t > F > While this may be true, this is closer to the source than some folks+ > in here pontificating their own opinions.a  J Considering the past, would you invest a million bucks on a platform whose2 owner does not want to publicly state its future ?  L The secret letter is only good enough to buy a bit of time. "it may be worthN postponing our platform decision because HP may have some good news." But thatK letter alone would not be enough for me to start to push and justify VMS toaL potential customers. Only a very public announcement will make HP's supposedJ commitment to VMS believeable and heard by potential customers. Otherwise,6 they will dismiss a VMS solution right from the start.  L I guess that the virtual letter may be good to help a shop postpone decision to port off of VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:29:15 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>o' Subject: Re: Rotted Link in OpenVMS FAQi+ Message-ID: <3CB9D88B.A5503837@caltech.edu>e   Didier Morandi wrote:i > > > http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/openvms/mmail.com >   B seqaxp is an alias for mendel.bio.caltech.edu - a Solaris machine.D When the VMS machine went away I moved the VMS software onto the FTPG server on the Unix box but that required the introduction of the "/pub".  part which wasn't needed on VMS.  G In any case FAQ maintainers need to check links fairly frequently sincei9 on average they only have a half life of something like 9u months (if that long).   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:20:02 +0100hS From: "The truth often seems unbelievable - like this one:" <info-vax@mvb.saic.com> Y Subject: Shape shifting reptilians are about to achieve complete control over this planetd8 Message-ID: <iss.cdd.3cb9d2d3.dec49.1@mx2.east.saic.com>   I know this may sound insane, especially to the minds of people who are conditioned to believe, that the official version of reality is the highest truth available.   But I have found some overwhelming documentation and research that supports the claim of this email in a book named "The Biggest Secret - the book that will change the world" by David Icke (540 pages).n  ^ You can read the book for free or print it out from this site:    freetheworld.freeservers.comT Or you can go to the website of the author for more information:  www.davidicke.com.  ] I am not affiliated with David Icke or his website in any way, and I will not mail you again.S  ! ---------------------------------0   You may consider this email as spam, and you are free to blame me, but please ask yourself first if you would't warn your fellow humans, if you were aware that massive manipulation, abuse, torture and killing of children, women and men is taking place every day performed by 'people' in the highest places of power? (Many of which in fact are of a reptilian bloodline and can shift their shape back and forth between a human form and their natural reptilian-human looking form - similar to the ability of chamele# ons to change their color at will.)      With kind regards from an independent truth seeker who just wishes to inform you what really is going on in the world - not just repeating the official version of reality.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:54:11 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)w* Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 to 7.2.2- Follow Up2 Message-ID: <3cba242f.2147290590@news.wcc.govt.nz>   Hi All,n  ? Here's a link to a follow up that identifies the issue Dirk hase raised.e< Important for anyone considering the 7.2-1 to 7.2-2 Upgrade.  ! http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/-   Rob.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:0:17 -08006 From: "Information" <Polk.Financial@mail.gppsp.com.my>) Subject: Wondering about a new home loan?c9 Message-ID: <200204141901.g3EJ1tf18304@mail.gppsp.com.my>p   <html> <head>! <title>Home Mortgage Pros</title>c </head>@   <body bgcolor=#C0C0C0>  J <table border="5" width="100%" cellspacing="1" height="160" bgcolor=WHITE>   <tr>"     <td width="100%" height="154">     L <p >It's in the news everyday lately...interest rates are climbing again.   f After going down to historic lows, in fact the lowest level seen in 40 years, they are coming back up. While rates are still below the 20 year average, they are <font color="#0000FF"><b>not expected to remain at that level much longer.  </b></font>at Most experts estimate that within the next 6 months rates will be back to the same levels they were at a year ago.  h This means that now is the best time to take advantage of current rates before this incredible window of/ opportunity closes and could be gone forever.  n Recent data shows the the US economy is recovering sooner than expected, <font color="#0000FF"><b>this means that rates will climb back to old levels quickly!!!!</b></font>c   Waiting could cost you thousands.  Act now and take advantage of the low rates while they last.  tc You can even get extra money to pay off your current debts, home improvements, or even vacations!  bp Simply <a href="http://www.polkfinancial.com">click here</a> and fill out our simple one page application to get started now! </p> <p ><font color="#006600">&quot;Not only is this a great time to refinance, we have the best technology to locate the most competitive home loans in the country!!!&quot;</font></p>g <p >This technology will help you <font color="#FF0000">save money</font> when shopping for a home loanhC and in turn helps keep our technology in high demand among mortgagetX professionals. It is a <font color="#FF0000"><b>WIN-WIN</b></font> for you and for us!!! </p>	 <p ><o:p>n<  Up to three of the best lenders in the country will contact; you and you can comparison-shop all of their loan programs,s </p> <p align="left"><o:p>bH  <font size="4" color="#000080">HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT:</font><o:p>   </p> <ul>   <li>P     <p align="left">Mortgage Loans for <font color="#000080"><b>every</b></font>     credit situation</li>i   <li>9     <p align="left">Pay off all of your current debt</li>i   <li>9     <p align="left">The absolute best interest rates</li>a   <li>?     <p align="left">Purchase a home with Zero down payment</li>l   <li>T     <p align="left">No Equity, 2nd Trust Deeds, up to 135% of your home's value</li>   <li>&     <p align="left">Stated income</li>   <li>2     <p align="left">Get money for any purpose</li>   <li>7     <p align="left"><font color="#FF0000"><b>Incredible3$     Customer Service</b></font></li> </ul>hu <p ><font color="#008000">Please fill out the form</font> at our web site:<b> <a href="http://www.polkfinancial.com"> _ <font size="4">Polk Financial</font></a> </b>and receive professional help as well as the above 
 benefits.</p>e	 <p ><o:p>.<  Help a family member or a friend with their home loan needsD by <font color="#000080"><b>forwarding this mail to them!</b></font> </p> <p>p </p> <hr>9 <p>We at Polk Financial have taken every effort to ensure  that those individualsP who receive this letter have requested this information. If you received this in error or would like to stop receiving information from us, please visit our <a href="http://www.polkfinancial.com/remove.html">Removal Page</a> to be removed</p>i </table> </html>    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.207 ************************