1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 16 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 210       Contents:6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.6 Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required.- ACCVIO error invoking mail on VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 ; Alpha EV7 Processor: A High Performance Tradition Continues ? Re: Alpha EV7 Processor: A High Performance Tradition Continues  Alpha tuning didn't  Re: Alpha tuning didn't  Re: Alpha tuning didn't & Re: ANN: HGFTP V3.0-1 is now available0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe Another VXT2000+ help needed  Re: Another VXT2000+ help needed( Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development? Re: Blade architectures + C++ dev. prior VMS O/S ver. bin. generation / Re: C++ dev. prior VMS O/S ver. bin. generation / Re: C++ dev. prior VMS O/S ver. bin. generation  Re: CMS library repair Re: CMS library repair+ Concurrent Version Systems  (CVS) under VMS / Re: Concurrent Version Systems  (CVS) under VMS / Re: Concurrent Version Systems  (CVS) under VMS  Re: Disk Monitoring  Re: Disk Monitoring  Re: Disk Monitoring - EV7's show up in Vegas, and are talk of town! 0 Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com4 Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com4 Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com4 Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com4 Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com+ Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS + Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS + Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS + Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS   Re: Fearless VMS Prognostication Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?. Re: From comp.sys.dec - deserves exposure here RE: full file backup to disk RE: full file backup to disk Re: full file backup to disk FW: cluster  Re: FW: cluster  Re: FW: cluster F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux HSG controller and new disks  RE: HSG controller and new disks- Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!  Re: IA64 is not the VAX  Re: Initial Sequence NumbersE It isn't just Alpha/OpenVMS users complaining about lack of marketing  Re: Itanium Oddities Re: Itanium Oddities Re: Itanium Oddities Re: Itanium Oddities Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles java Runtime.exec  Re: java Runtime.exec > Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)* Marvel at the next NYC LUG meeting May 3rd. Re: Marvel at the next NYC LUG meeting May 3rd Mux Server 300 Re: Mux Server 300 New Product Announcement' Re: OS400 in similar non-marketing bind ' Re: OS400 in similar non-marketing bind ' Re: OS400 in similar non-marketing bind ( Re: OT Best Practises in the IT Industry! PCSI container for bootable disk?  Re: Pinout on Mouse/KB cable0 Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger! RE: Printserver 32 Error Code > Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks Re: Rotted Link in OpenVMS FAQ Shell Accounts Page Update RE: Shell Accounts Page Update+ Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release + Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release + Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release + Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release 0 Re: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms!0 Re: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms!" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?. Re: VMS "unhackable" example just for Andy .... Re: VMS "unhackable" example just for Andy ...4 Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233? Win2000 or OpenVMS Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS	 X session 
 Re: X session   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 04:11 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. - Message-ID: <16APR200204113877@gerg.tamu.edu>   ; norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk (nortools) writes... F }Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and then@ }remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces,F }leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is withoutA }having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate, G }f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure works F }but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved }in less lines than this.  }N  - You can just subtract them out of the string.   C The full date-time string has two hyphens, 1 space, 3 colons, and a ) decimal point. That works out to be this:   < $ compacted = time - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - ":" - "."   Test:    $ time = f$time()  $ sh symb time"   TIME = "16-APR-2002 04:07:28.17"< $ compacted = time - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - ":" - "." $ sh symb compacted !   COMPACTED = "16APR200204072817"   < What happens when some of them are missing and you try this?   $ time = "16-APR-2002 04:09"< $ compacted = time - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - ":" - "." $ sh symb compacted    COMPACTED = "16APR20020409"   ? Nothing bad happens - subtracting off a string that isn't there  doesn't do anything.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:42:22 GMT ' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> ? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. " Message-ID: <3cbbf1fb@zfree.co.nz>    This will keep it from breaking:    K $ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$edit(f$time(),"TRIM")) - "-" - "-"       , young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:e >In article <27d25fc7.0204140812.397340d8@posting.google.com>, norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk  (nortools) writes: >> Hi,H >> Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and thenB >> remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces,H >> leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is withoutC >> having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate, I >> f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure works H >> but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved >> in less lines than this. 	 >> Thanks  > = >$ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$time()) - "-" - "-"  >$ show symbol dashless*# >  DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY = "14APR2002"  >  >			Rob  >        http://www.zfree.co.nz    .   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:57:45 +0200 2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>? Subject: Re: A simple way to manipulate the date/time required. G Message-ID: <3cbc11a6$0$25550$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   8 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3cbbf1fb@zfree.co.nz... > " > This will keep it from breaking: >  > I > $ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$edit(f$time(),"TRIM")) - "-" -  "-"  >  >  > . > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:@ > >In article <27d25fc7.0204140812.397340d8@posting.google.com>,& norma.toolsie@bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk > (nortools) writes: > >> Hi,J > >> Does anyone know a "simple" way to extract the date and time and thenD > >> remove all the superfluous hyphens, colons, full-stops, spaces,J > >> leaving just the numbers and letters, e.g: 14APR1711. This is withoutE > >> having to resort to lots of symbol creations and using f$locate, K > >> f$extract to manipulate the created symbols. My latest procedure works J > >> but runs to about 14 lines. I am sure the same result can be achieved > >> in less lines than this.  > >> Thanks  > > ? > >$ dashless_ddmmmyyyy = f$element(0," ",f$time()) - "-" - "-"  > >$ show symbol dashless*% > >  DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY = "14APR2002"  > >  > > Rob  > >  >  >  >  > http://www.zfree.co.nz >  >  .  @ I guess you should call it DASHLESS_DDMMMYYYY_OR_MAYBE_DMMMYYY !   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:35:15 -0400 & From: "Kumar, Alok" <akumar@refco.com>6 Subject: ACCVIO error invoking mail on VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4? Message-ID: <70C82880C8B70441958D71083774B47F046587@snptexchg4>   K WE have a cluster of 2 VAX 4705 running VMS 5.5-2H4. Problem started 4 days J ago when I rebooted the machines. Now when I try to invoke mail utility on# DCL prompt, I get following error :   ; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=01, virtual  address=00352EF0, PC =00043E9B, PSL=03C00005   2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.  4         Signal arguments              Stack contents  1         Number = 00000005                000DF5A4 1         Name   = 0000000C                00000000 6                       00000001                201C00006                       00352EF0                7FDD57746                       00043E9B                7FDD57386                       03C00005                000440F6<                                                     00000010;                                                    0014AA88 ;                                                    7FDD5630 ;                                                    00000002            Register dump   B         R0 = 00000000  R1 = 7FDD485C  R2 = 00000003  R3 = 00352EF0B         R4 = 000DF50C  R5 = 00000000  R6 = 0000A252  R7 = 000DF560B         R8 = 000DF4FC  R9 = 000DF4F0  R10= 000002D8  R11= 0000A2A0B         AP = 7FDD4864  FP = 7FDD4824  SP = 7FDD48A0  PC = 00043E9B         PSL= 03C00005   J I replaced the installed images, also tried to use mail executables( mail,I mail_server, mailshr, mailshrp) from backup, nothing made a difference. I I even rebooted thinking that it all started after reboot, but that too did 	 not help.  Please help. Thanks in advance.  
 Alok Kumar   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:44:15 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>D Subject: Alpha EV7 Processor: A High Performance Tradition Continues? Message-ID: <3gTu8.56591$pe6.20283934@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>   ; Alpha EV7 Processor: A High Performance Tradition Continues   " Reed Electronics Group, In-StatMDR$ Kevin Krewell, Senior Analyst/Editor Microprocessor Report   9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/04/16/3570613    -- Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPTC.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:31:09 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> H Subject: Re: Alpha EV7 Processor: A High Performance Tradition Continues: Message-ID: <lYTu8.6806$YB5.1103244@news20.bellglobal.com>   And this link:? http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s=1005&a=22477,00.asp F which describes 64-bit technology makes me feel a little nervous aboutK Itanium technology (which means EV7 and EV79 might be with us for some time  to come)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   3 "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message 9 news:3gTu8.56591$pe6.20283934@typhoon.southeast.rr.com... = > Alpha EV7 Processor: A High Performance Tradition Continues  > $ > Reed Electronics Group, In-StatMDR& > Kevin Krewell, Senior Analyst/Editor > Microprocessor Report  > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/04/16/3570613  >  > -- > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.Tru64.org > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://www.LinuxHPTC.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:01:04 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Alpha tuning didn't$ Message-ID: <3cbc5937$1@news.si.com>  L I have a lone Alpha 1000 (4/233, 320 Mb memory) in a cluster with ten ortherI VAXes.  The Alpha has been acting as a mail router and running some other H freeware tools, no interactive work by anyone but me (only a single userE license).  It had been operational for about a year when I decided to J AUTOGEN it.  Man, am I sorry I did.  It jacked up the NPAGEDYN and PAGEDYNH significantlyand adjusted a number of other parameters.  After a reboot, performance is utterly dismal.  L I'm not familiar enough with Alphas to evaluate what parameters to drop back (other than all of them).   K I don't expect anyone to really solve my problem, since you don't know this L system, but I just wanted to complain about AUTOGEN a little.  ~whine whine~ --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:12:11 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>   Subject: Re: Alpha tuning didn't' Message-ID: <3CBC5B6B.A69E83DE@aaa.com>   ( Check the SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT.) Does it say *why* it changed the params ?   = Perhaps better check that it realy *was* AUTOGEN that failed. < It's easy to override anything AUTOGEN deas with a few lines in MODPARAMS.DAT.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Brian Tillman wrote:$ >>>>  about problems with AUTOGEN...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:12:30 +0000 2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>  Subject: Re: Alpha tuning didn't4 Message-ID: <20020416171230.A22043@eisenschmidt.org>   --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   L This little rant sounds very much like the kind you get from old time Oracl=
 e developers.   L "Why do we have to use the Cost based analyzer? Why can't we just use the r= ule based analyzer?"  L Because the rule based analyzer requires one to know and understand all the=L  rules. Generally, people these days aren't willing (lazy) to memorize the =L rules, and any third party products can't really be programmed to methodica=L lly tune against those rules. Well, I'm sure they could, but the developers=:  aren't willing (lazy) to develop software that does that.  L In fact, the cost based analyzer is usually smart enough to find a more eff=L icient query plan that you could. I suspect the same is true of memory mana= gement in OpenVMS.  L As someone who hasn't learned the rules of OpenVMS tuning, nor the pleasure=L  of working with someone who could teach me the ropes, I'm quite fond of au= togen.  L Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Brian Tillman (tillman_brian@notnoone.notno= how.com) Wrote: L > I have a lone Alpha 1000 (4/233, 320 Mb memory) in a cluster with ten ort= her K > VAXes.  The Alpha has been acting as a mail router and running some other J > freeware tools, no interactive work by anyone but me (only a single userG > license).  It had been operational for about a year when I decided tohL > AUTOGEN it.  Man, am I sorry I did.  It jacked up the NPAGEDYN and PAGEDYNJ > significantlyand adjusted a number of other parameters.  After a reboot,  > performance is utterly dismal. >=20L > I'm not familiar enough with Alphas to evaluate what parameters to drop b= ack  > (other than all of them).i >=20L > I don't expect anyone to really solve my problem, since you don't know th= isL > system, but I just wanted to complain about AUTOGEN a little.  ~whine whi= ne~r > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comlC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >=20   --=201/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>d6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2   --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm' Content-Type: application/pgp-signature  Content-Disposition: inlineY   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) * Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE8vFt+H5fmozfjvvIRAgBAAKDXNW3q3tmwIhkwGHuZB9lPqC1ZygCgg/UM 5u0y/L216qZVBL4qF1XRyPA= =IAB1D -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----7   --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm--   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 09:28:48 -0700- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)o/ Subject: Re: ANN: HGFTP V3.0-1 is now availablet= Message-ID: <3ff5fed3.0204160828.6b96dfad@posting.google.com>n  Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<5Vuf9Cw8angq@elias.decus.ch>...c > In article <3cb5a0b3.165824863@news.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes: L > > On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:27:17 +0200, Paul Sture <p_sture@decus.ch> wrote: > >  > >>Hunter Goatley wrote:  > >>> " > >>A really good pitch for HGFTP. > >> > > Thanks.0 > >  > + >    You are welcome. I went and got it :-)0 >  Great!  6 >    Netscape from my VMS system now sees my anonymous >    FTP directory perfectly.  > 6 >    Moreover, I can report quite dramatic performance7 >    improvements over TCP/IP FTP. A simple test of the 7 >    two showed that when pulling a ~100MB file from my  >    Linux system took:  >  >     TCP/IP FTP 3:090 >     HGFTP      0:49d > < Even better.  I did a lot of work in recent versions to make? it dumb-browser compatible and as fast as I could get it.  Nice + to know it's working well for you that way.4   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/7 goathunter@goatley.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:33:46 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybea& Message-ID: <3CBBE1EA.3050104@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  : > Aw, and I thought you said you *weren't* a market-droid. > M > Come on, admit it.  You're in sales right?  Never really have done anythingjE > technical.  Right?  You getting a lot of business from these posts?g >  >     6 How intriguing, rather than answer the points you have6 instead used the classic sales tactic of attempting to change the subject.o  " How about answering the question ?  6 Why do you claim that Alpha and GS boxes have industry6 leading server performance when none of your benchmark results show this.  6 And before you jump in and try to suggest that this is5 a marketing/sales type question remember that its thep5 platform designed by your engineers at the end of thep1 day that day that delivers the benchmark numbers.h  4 Unless I am very much mistaken the GS320/160 and the9 Alpha processors were designed by engineers not marketingp5 people, the benchmarks you have run on the boxes were.& run by engineers not marketing people.   Regardse Andrew Harrisons     > 4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message > <3CB7026E.80500@sun.com>...) >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>H >>>On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:43:59 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >>><andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>>8 >>>1 >>>2 >>>3G >>>>Note that the Sun's in the top500 list are mostly larger systems as I >>>>are the HP's. Where are the GS boxes ? They aren't there because theyw* >>>>are too big, to expensive and to slow. >>>> >>>> >>>>F >>>See now.  There is NO WAY you would have any information to explainE >>>why these systems aren't in this list.  You take one little fact -/B >>>that they aren't there - and you use it to fabricate this whole1 >>>*opinion* that you then post as if it is fact.n >>>l >>>b >> >>So what is your explanation. >>? >>They are expensive, slow, big and hot was this the reason fore, >>their absence or is it some other reason ? >> >> >>H >>>>And this is a characteristic which is also evident in the commercialE >>>>server space. The GS series are to big, to expensive and to slow.nD >>>>Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, even Rob hasD >>>>stopped trying to defend GS performance prefering to try to hype >>>>futures. >>>> >>>> >>>>C >>>Well Andrew, you must believe that if you repeat something ofteneI >>>enough people will just believe you.  Once again, though, I'm going touH >>>request to see this evidence as proof for your assertions above.  Not# >>>sure how you'll do that, though.m >>>c >>>  >>  >>Where would you like to start. >>9 >>TPC-H, slow and expensive remember TPC-H measures pricer9 >>as well as performance and for example the the best SMP.8 >>system in the 300 GB category where you have published8 >>GS320 results is the IBM NUMA-Q its 50% faster and 2/3 >>the cost per transaction.a >>9 >>You havn't done the bigger TPC-H numbers (why) but justi6 >>as a data point the F15000 does 3.8 x the throughput >>at 1/3 the price.- >>: >>TPC-C, Slow expensive again remember TPC-C also measures7 >>both, Fujitsu 2 x the performance at 2/3 the cost. HPp >>1.7 x faster 1/2 the price.3 >>; >>SAP SD 2 tier slower than Sun and IBM on a per CPU basis.P7 >>SAP don't measure cost but given the fact that the GSp9 >>isn't price competitive for the other results this doest >>not bode well for you. >>= >>Oracle applications standard benchmark, GS320 is 25% slowerd; >>than a 24 CPU Sun F6800 and is also slower than an 24 CPUU >>IBM P680.- >>= >>These are the commercial type benchmarks you have published0/ >>for the boxes, no SPECJBB for example either.. >>6 >>Size, the GS320 covers a larger floor area  than the5 >>F15000 for example but delivers 1/3 the throughput.  >>0 >>Heat the GS320 pushes out 70% of the heat of a/ >>fully loaded F15000 but the F15000 is 3 x theo0 >>capacity. Compare the GS320 with a F6800 which- >>is equivalent, the F6800 pushes out 1/2 the  >>heat.s >>+ >>So big, slow, hot all of these claims arez+ >>covered. Unless you are looking for a bign/ >>space heater there is little to recommend ther >>box. >>8 >>So I would suggest that unless you can find publically; >>available benchmark results that are counter to this thaty >>you put up or shut up. >>9 >>You claim that I am banging on about this without proofl; >>when in fact it is you who are trying to defend my claimsi8 >>(backed up by benchmark results and your product data)0 >>without having anything to defend your stance. >>2 >>As I said earlier it is a scam for you to try to1 >>claim that GS boxes are performance leaders fori/ >>commercial apps if you don't have anything tou. >>back you claims up. If there were no results2 >>then you could of course wriggle out of this but2 >>all the available benchmark results published by4 >>your benchmark teams prove my point and not yours. >> >> >>D >>>I can tell you that I've seen hundreds of $millions of dollars inF >>>sales of GS-series systems over the last few months.  And get this:H >>>I'm not in sales!!!  So surely what I do read/hear about is only part >>>of the total. >>>sH >>>So, I'm really curious what inforamtion you use to decide that it "is0 >>>also evident in the commercial server space." >>>q >>>. >>A >>Your benchmark results and your product data as I said earlier.i >> >> >>4 >>>Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq0 >>>(get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail) >>>A >>> 	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:21:02 +0100-T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybem$ Message-ID: <3CBBECFE.70806@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message > <3CB61B37.2060509@sun.com>...- >  >>BS >>A >>When you have a server that can do 10 GB/s through a filesystemi? >>then come back an play with the big boys. Sun has benchmarkede@ >>that rate on a F15000 what have you done this on a GS. Fact is/ >>that however you measure it the GS boxes are:  >>9 >>Hot, big, expensive and slow get used to it the scam iso; >>getting boring. Avoid worthless platitudes like optimisedt7 >>for large aggregate I/O unless you can prove it whichn/ >>you can't. Sorry Freddy boy but you are sunk.n >> >> > N > Andy, pull your head our of your -where-the-SUN-don't-shine.  Upset that youG > suck on a list that you keep talking about, let's change the subject.dM > "Oooh, I've benchmarked my SUN to do 7 million useless things a day - prove  > what you can do".s > L > Get a life.  There are many, many happy GS users.  And they have one thing > you'll never have - VMS.     Really all of them !  E I thought from the numbers you guys give to IDC that ~25% of them runT OpenVMS and the rest use Tru64.o   Guess you numbers were wrong.    Regardso Andrew Harrisona     >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:19:27 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybee, Message-ID: <a9hmpm$370d$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  ( Yeah, he "implemented" clusters for Sun.   Bill Todd wrote in message ... > A >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message ' >news:a9f1o9$280r$1@lead.zk3.dec.com... ; >> Aw, and I thought you said you *weren't* a market-droid.i >>E >> Come on, admit it.  You're in sales right?  Never really have donel	 >anything F >> technical.  Right?  You getting a lot of business from these posts? >tG >Andrew has already replied to that at least once by citing work he has  done.iH >And while some of his statements do tend to shed doubt on his technicalI >competence, they do so no more than a lot of your recent statements shedv >doubt on your own.A >iC >Sun probably doesn't get too much business as a result of Andrew'snJ >participation here (which would be less offensive if he stuck more to theI >real grains of truth many of his observations contain):  they likely getu far H >more business as a result of Compaq's actions than as a result of *any* >activity in c.o.v.R >i >- bill  >  >r >g   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 14:27:48 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) % Subject: Another VXT2000+ help needed:, Message-ID: <a9hcd4$2n9q$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  @ Having tried all of my old DEC monitors without success,  I haveA come to the conclusion that the "+" on my VXT2000 is significant.rC I am assuming it means higher resolution and an appropriatly higher:B scan rate.  Assuming I am right and the scan rate is actually 76hzA rather than 60 or 72, is it possible someone here has a couple ofa@ 3w3 to SVGA cables sitting around that they no longer have a use for??    bill   -- GJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:40:54 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>!) Subject: Re: Another VXT2000+ help neededi/ Message-ID: <3CBC4606.7060407@xs4all.nospam.nl>c   Bill Gunshannon wrote:B > Having tried all of my old DEC monitors without success,  I haveC > come to the conclusion that the "+" on my VXT2000 is significant.tE > I am assuming it means higher resolution and an appropriatly highereD > scan rate.  Assuming I am right and the scan rate is actually 76hzC > rather than 60 or 72, is it possible someone here has a couple ofmB > 3w3 to SVGA cables sitting around that they no longer have a use > for??e  D I have used VXT2000+ systems with VRT19-AH monitors, both the older H version with 'only' 3 BNC connectors (actually 2 times 3) AND the newer 3 version with the (2 times) 5 BNC's (Sony GDM 3029).d  I Since the older VRT19 were limited to 1280x1024 resolution I assume that l) that is what the VXT2000+ expects to run.a   HTH.  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 07:00:51 -0700) From: google@mccready.com (Gary McCready)i1 Subject: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?0= Message-ID: <6e64ea70.0204160600.1b13d2bd@posting.google.com>e  A At my company, we're considering using CHARON-VAX for development-F work; has anyone done development work with it, using either Alpha VMSC or Window's as the "host" O/S? Any limitations or difficulties withAE it? Any recommendations for configuring systems outside of what is in0@ the requirements for the software? How well do network protocolsA (TCP/IP-UCX, Decnet-plus(decnet and OSI) and LAT) typically work?c  F And on a related note, the Encompass Local User Group in New York CityE is looking for a speaker for a (perferably) early evening talk and/or1E demo on CHARON-VAX. Although we (probably) can't pay travel expenses, B we might be able to pay for the speaker's cheap dinner! We're justE looking for a short (about 1 hour or less) talk and demo if possible, @ just showing off the product's features, along with any tips andC tricks that come from using it. Please email to NYMLUG@McCready.comaA with your contact info and availability, and I'll get back to you F about scheduling a talk. Our meetings are usually near Penn Station if that is a help.    Thanks,= --Gary McCreadys   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:48:13 -0400"* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?p. Message-ID: <3CBC016D.19683.79D1318@localhost>  C > At my company, we're considering using CHARON-VAX for development"H > work; has anyone done development work with it, using either Alpha VMSE > or Window's as the "host" O/S? Any limitations or difficulties withr > it?s  C I'm using the Windows version for VAX software development.  I now  F only fire up a VAX when I need to write a TK-50 tape.  :-)  I want to D get the Alpha VMS version working, so I won't need a Windows system  running.  E I've discovered no limitations -- the emulated VAX is a member of my sB mixed Alpha/VAX cluster, and everything appears completely normal.    C > Any recommendations for configuring systems outside of what is in.B > the requirements for the software? How well do network protocolsC > (TCP/IP-UCX, Decnet-plus(decnet and OSI) and LAT) typically work?l  B TCP/IP (UCX), DECnet Phase IV and Plus, LAT, cluster traffic, and ) IEEE 802.3 messaging all works perfectly.   C You'll need to make sure you have a separate network interface for tC use by the VAX, in addition to the one used by Windows/Alpha VMS.     B And, "the faster, the better".  Works at about 4000-90 speed on a F single processor, 1000 MHz laptop with 512 MB of RAM.  Dual processor 
 really flies.   D Allow me a shameless plug:  I'm a CHARON-VAX reseller, and would be 9 glad to help you get your development environment set up.     
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147s= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:54:13 +0200d) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> 5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?a/ Message-ID: <3CBC3B15.3090305@xs4all.nospam.nl>a   Gary McCready wrote:C > At my company, we're considering using CHARON-VAX for developmentaH > work; has anyone done development work with it, using either Alpha VMSE > or Window's as the "host" O/S? Any limitations or difficulties withnG > it? Any recommendations for configuring systems outside of what is ineB > the requirements for the software? How well do network protocolsC > (TCP/IP-UCX, Decnet-plus(decnet and OSI) and LAT) typically work?   G I am not using CHARON-VAX for development, but I know of one draw back oG of the product. When running (on Windows, I don't know about the Alpha  I VMS version), it consumes all available CPU cycles. On a desktop this is  E probably not much of an issue, but on a laptop it is. My laptop soon RG gets too hot to use it on my lap and the battery doen't last very long..  G I already mentioned this problem to SRI and they said that they hadn't  7 heard of this before, but it seemed worth looking into.u  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:09:23 GMT-- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley).5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?g/ Message-ID: <3cbc3e18.5617717@news.process.com>H  O On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:48:13 -0400, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:   C >TCP/IP (UCX), DECnet Phase IV and Plus, LAT, cluster traffic, and r* >IEEE 802.3 messaging all works perfectly. >c9 MultiNet and TCPware also work perfectly with CHARON-VAX.   D >You'll need to make sure you have a separate network interface for D >use by the VAX, in addition to the one used by Windows/Alpha VMS.   >aE This isn't technically true; you can actually do it all with one cardoA if you assign two IP addresses, one to the Windows box and one to1K CHARON-vAX.  Things will work better with two cards, but strictly speaking,t it's not necessary.    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/Y8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:37:17 -0400m* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development? . Message-ID: <3CBC1AFD.28899.800EC9D@localhost>  * On 16 Apr 2002, at 16:54, Bart Zorn wrote:9 > When running (on Windows, I don't know about the Alpha oM > VMS version), it consumes all available CPU cycles.  [...]  My laptop soon oI > gets too hot to use it on my lap and the battery doen't last very long.y > I > I already mentioned this problem to SRI and they said that they hadn't -9 > heard of this before, but it seemed worth looking into.0  ? This is a known issue for all versions (not a problem, just an _E "issue").  CHARON-VAX emulates the processor, and doesn't know about iF the operating system that it's running.  So, there's no way to figure E out when the CPU is in an idle loop, because that differs in each OS   and each version..  F * Maybe a special patch for a specific VMS version could be developed D that would put the emulator in a slow-speed state when reaching the @ idle loop.  I'll copy SRI on this -- that would be a Good Thing.  D Patch or no, when was the last time you saw a battery powered VAX?  F Laptop life might be short, but it *does* work on batteries.  Or in a  car or airplane.  F Useful hint:  I set the priority of the process to "Low" so I can get = other things done at the same time.  This is not a supported  4 configuration, but seems to run VMS 7.3 just fine...  
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.p  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671t1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147d= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:11:29 +0200n( From: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures" Message-ID: <hebh9a.p74.ln@miriam>   Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:  C > a "no-dup" page/swap allocation ... would only have page slots onyE > disk for pages that weren't resident in real storage. if there were>F > sufficient real storage to always contain all virtual pages ... then2 > there need not ever be any disk space allocated.  F Actually, the turn-over between "dup" and "no-dup" can be implemented C without having to care where the turn-over actually is useful. You nE just have to treat both memory and swap as storages for data. If the u@ data lives in two locations: fine, you can drop one - which one / depends on where you are tight, memory or swap.   F Recently, someone removed the out-of-memory killer, and now kills the C app which caused the request that can't be served. That shows that o; Linux developers still don't understand what it is for. An  F out-of-memory condition does not have a "local" cause like requesting A one more page. It has a global cause, which is typically a large l= memory hog or too many memory hogs started. All applications vE consuming memory collectively cause the out-of-memory situation, and yE you have to kill the worst offender - which is rarely the one asking e for yet another page.o  D When I was a student, another student had a clustered program which E consumed both lots of memory and CPU time. To make the machine I sat sD on usable, I wrote a simple memory allocation hog (it allocated all C available memory, and HP-UX doesn't allow overcommitment) and then vE waited until the cluster program asked for yet another page - it was pD doomed to die. Afterwards, I just ^Ced my hog. Other people started  to use my program, too.   ? The other student recognised the pattern, and added a test for nF available memory. When there was nothing available, he put the app to  sleep for some longer time.    -- h Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"e http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:04:07 -0300t+ From: Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>u4 Subject: C++ dev. prior VMS O/S ver. bin. generationO Message-ID: <D7299B063E382716.4CA6B355147B5737.548F07930B9FDABF@lp.airnews.net>t  F My employer is a software developer that has developed and distributes; a VMS-based software package.  Our installed base presentlyn! spans VMS/Alpha V6.2 thru V7.2-2.>  5 Our present development environment is a heterogenouss6 VMS cluster under V7.1-2. We hope to upgrade to V7.2-20 once we can find a route away from Pathworks V5.  > In the past, we have been able to generate executable binaries@ that would run on the O/S version range of our installed base by; saving a copy of the oldest supported O/S runtime librariesi- and linking to it on our development platforme* as a separately referenced group of files.  @ This paradigm is now void with the new compile time O/S version-F dependant artifacts associated with C++.  This new "feature" precludes@ using the above technique to produce prior-compatible executable	 binaries.c  % The new choices that occur to us are:a  . - Maintaining an old-version VMS system as our7   compile and link engine for our application software. <   There will be enough of a version spread compared to other>   nodes that clustering won't be an option, further increasing#   the inconvenience of this option.   8 - Updating many turnkey VMS systems and layered products8   in our field installed-base, a most daunting prospect.;   Currently our turnkey customer base primarily receives any;   O/S upgrade buy purchasing a new server, which includes ao?   pre-loaded copy of the "latest" VMS O/S and layered products.t  7 Can anyone suggest a more elegant solution to the aboveo< problem, or relate how you solved this relatively new issue?   Thanks   (also emailed to HH)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:00:11 -0400n2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>8 Subject: Re: C++ dev. prior VMS O/S ver. bin. generation* Message-ID: <3CBC043B.58B6DED2@oracle.com>  . I'm not sure what problems you are seeing with, C++, but it would seem that if you save your. existing contents of SYS$LIBRARY and C*INCLUDE+ directories and use then when compiling andi1 linking, you'll be ok.  This is, after a fashion,d. what Rdb engineering does as well.  We run our2 development clusters at VMS V7.3 (where practicle)- but compile and link with the libraries from 0 older versions.n   "Rodman S. Regier" wrote:c > H > My employer is a software developer that has developed and distributes= > a VMS-based software package.  Our installed base presentlyo# > spans VMS/Alpha V6.2 thru V7.2-2.r > 7 > Our present development environment is a heterogenous08 > VMS cluster under V7.1-2. We hope to upgrade to V7.2-22 > once we can find a route away from Pathworks V5. > @ > In the past, we have been able to generate executable binariesB > that would run on the O/S version range of our installed base by= > saving a copy of the oldest supported O/S runtime librariesn/ > and linking to it on our development platformi, > as a separately referenced group of files. > B > This paradigm is now void with the new compile time O/S version-H > dependant artifacts associated with C++.  This new "feature" precludesB > using the above technique to produce prior-compatible executable > binaries.  > ' > The new choices that occur to us are:d > 0 > - Maintaining an old-version VMS system as our9 >   compile and link engine for our application software. > >   There will be enough of a version spread compared to other@ >   nodes that clustering won't be an option, further increasing% >   the inconvenience of this option.t > : > - Updating many turnkey VMS systems and layered products: >   in our field installed-base, a most daunting prospect.= >   Currently our turnkey customer base primarily receives an-= >   O/S upgrade buy purchasing a new server, which includes aiA >   pre-loaded copy of the "latest" VMS O/S and layered products.f > 9 > Can anyone suggest a more elegant solution to the above.> > problem, or relate how you solved this relatively new issue? >  > Thanks >  > (also emailed to HH)   -- "> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 09:02:15 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)Y8 Subject: Re: C++ dev. prior VMS O/S ver. bin. generation3 Message-ID: <FDM+AsUpWGmi@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  } In article <D7299B063E382716.4CA6B355147B5737.548F07930B9FDABF@lp.airnews.net>, Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com> writes:s  @ > In the past, we have been able to generate executable binariesB > that would run on the O/S version range of our installed base by= > saving a copy of the oldest supported O/S runtime librariesa/ > and linking to it on our development platformw, > as a separately referenced group of files. > B > This paradigm is now void with the new compile time O/S version-H > dependant artifacts associated with C++.  This new "feature" precludesB > using the above technique to produce prior-compatible executable > binaries.-  B Accepting your word regarding the C++ problems, I would ask if you% have considered the GNU G++ compiler.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:15:11 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: CMS library repair . Message-ID: <3CBB973F.23203.5FE4F62@localhost>  , On 16 Apr 2002, at 2:17, Hoff Hoffman wrote:7 >   That looks to be a (relatively benign?) corruption.iG >   I'd get in contact with the support center, and see about acquiringb& >   some tools to rebuild the library.  ; Actually, I've upgraded all my systems to V4.1, done a CMS ?> VERIFY/REPAIR twice, and all my problems have gone away.  The # libraries work as expected (whew!).c    
 --Stan Quayle|! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.d  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671s1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com@   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:49:27 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  Subject: Re: CMS library repairt5 Message-ID: <01KGN62H0Z8I000LAG@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>e   Stan Quayle wrote:  - >On 16 Apr 2002, at 2:17, Hoff Hoffman wrote: 8 >>   That looks to be a (relatively benign?) corruption.H >>   I'd get in contact with the support center, and see about acquiring' >>   some tools to rebuild the library.o >b< >Actually, I've upgraded all my systems to V4.1, done a CMS ? >VERIFY/REPAIR twice, and all my problems have gone away.  The X$ >libraries work as expected (whew!).  J IIRC, a "recent" upgrade of CMS did mention in the release notes that two K verifications were necessary.  This was way after the point that, I think, hG Hoff made when CMS went from a CMS000.DIR to a CMS001.DIR.  (When that iF happened, I foolishly deleted the CMS000.DIRs.  It appeared that some K combination of LSE and SCA still required them, whether this applies now I dD know not -- no Dutch courage (brandy, brandy), having been severely N reprimanded by my then boss for having disrupted the work habits of our team).  K For whoever made the comment(s) -- Hoff or Stan -- about running different nO versions on the same library.  My experience on a heterogenous cluster with an ?L old VAX version (sometime last century :-) and an up-to-date Alpha version, M that I only do simple fetches on the VAX version for viewing; this may apply oL to older versions on the Alpha platform.  I once replaced modules on my VAX I and the regular re-run on Alpha required a /verify/repair to fix the CMS r" library and the reference library.  L Also, what Hoff intimated, many years ago when I thought I had a problem, I L was given a .COM file from local support.  It has the title "How to restore I and/or rebuild a corrupted CMS library".  It was written back in 1992 by nO Caroline Butterworth and last modified in 1995 by Marci Potter.  In the event, sM I never had to use it, and it is probably way out of kilter with the current h version of CMS.o   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:15:09 +0200l2 From: "karl maynard" <karl##no_spam##@lineone.net>4 Subject: Concurrent Version Systems  (CVS) under VMS= Message-ID: <3cbc31f2$0$11926$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>y   Hi,a  K I am looking at using the CVS client that is available from cvshome.org andDE on the OpenVMS Freeware CD. Has anyone used this under VMS, if so anyi
 comments ?   TIA  Karl.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:31:07 -0700p, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: Concurrent Version Systems  (CVS) under VMS4 Message-ID: <a9hn4s$3b5j0$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>   Use it everyday, works great.t   Jim    The version I use says:t  
 $ cvs -ver  . Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.11 (client)  ; Copyright (c) 1989-2000 Brian Berliner, david d `zoo' zuhn,l4                         Jeff Polk, and other authors   etc...    = "karl maynard" <karl##no_spam##@lineone.net> wrote in messagef7 news:3cbc31f2$0$11926$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk...s > Hi,e >fI > I am looking at using the CVS client that is available from cvshome.org  andaG > on the OpenVMS Freeware CD. Has anyone used this under VMS, if so anyc > comments ? >n > TIAE > Karl.s >i >a   ------------------------------   Date: 16 APR 2002 17:29:15 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>a8 Subject: Re: Concurrent Version Systems  (CVS) under VMS2 Message-ID: <16APR02.17291514@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  J In a previous article, "karl maynard" <karl##no_spam##@lineone.net> wrote: > Hi,l >  iM > I am looking at using the CVS client that is available from cvshome.org andlG > on the OpenVMS Freeware CD. Has anyone used this under VMS, if so anyl > comments ?  C I have used the VMS CVS port to talk to a server on a hp-ux system. E Basically all I did was to checkout the code and do a few updates.  Ik? haven't tried to check any changes back in.  I don't recall anytA particular problems - it sure beat the heck out of the .com's I'd15 written to try to keep my sources up to date via ftp.a  E IIRC, I used the pserver method to connect.  Ssh obviously won't workeF unless you have an scp implementation.  (I didn't have one when I usedB CVS before but do now - Multinet v4.4 - so I may try that on a new project I'm working on.)  E You may or may not have problems with file name case.  I was using ano( ODS-2 disk and all lower-case filenames.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVhH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:06:46 -0700g  From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Disk Monitoring8 Message-ID: <qffobu0c9ibgqf8o6bcemo2fs2lhvs74f1@4ax.com>   Thanks Hoff!    3 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:t  \ >In article <pkemau865sahie27e9jfdbm50a5ugolo9b@4ax.com>, Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> writes: >tD >  When posting, please remember to provide the OpenVMS platform and >  operating system release. >nG >: I was asked to create a disk i/o monitoring and I was REALLY wanting F >:to avoid doing a monitor disk to an output file and read it in.  Are* >:there lexicals that can return disk io?  >rB >  DCL lexicals usually don't gather this sort of information, its' >  usually only available to programs. . >7, >:I'm specifically looking for queue length. >4? >  The supported approach involves the OpenVMS command, and itsI >  recording capabilities. >u# >    MONITOR DISK/ITEM=QUEUE_LENGTH  >.C >  If you need something else, then you can get the same data as ispF >  displayed by MONITOR using the (undocumented) exe$getspi interface. >  >wO > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- O >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    oO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.coms   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 10:05:30 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)w Subject: Re: Disk Monitoring< Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204160905.4ca4c1b@posting.google.com>  ` Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<pkemau865sahie27e9jfdbm50a5ugolo9b@4ax.com>...G >  I was asked to create a disk i/o monitoring and I was REALLY wantinggF > to avoid doing a monitor disk to an output file and read it in.  AreF > there lexicals that can return disk io? I'm specifically looking for > queue length.  Thanks!  B Consider the ECP Data Collector and Analyzer, which come free withM VMS.  See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html C for starters.  There's even an API included with the Data Collectorr for direct access to the data.  C Beyond that, there are 3rd-party performance products like Fortel'srE (http:www.fortel.com) Viewpoint (formerly Datametrics'), and ComputersF Associates' (http://www.cai.com/) Unicenter Performance Management for? OpenVMS (formerly CA's Advise/IT, formerly Digital's Polycentera< Performance Solution, formerly DECps, formerly VPA and SPM).. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 12:18:57 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Disk Monitoring3 Message-ID: <1a8P6wmH+WCk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <6ec1251e.0204160905.4ca4c1b@posting.google.com>, KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  N > Computer Associates' (http://www.cai.com/) Unicenter Performance Management E > for OpenVMS (formerly CA's Advise/IT, formerly Digital's Polycenterr> > Performance Solution, formerly DECps, formerly VPA and SPM).   	Now *THAT* is impressive!   				Rob1   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 10:14:21 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: EV7's show up in Vegas, and are talk of town!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204160914.192f106d@posting.google.com>n  % Compaq Alpha Marvels tip up in Vegas i   Appearing soon D% By Eva Glass, 16/04/2002 15:15:21 BST   D YANKEE UFOlogists generally equate the desolate state of Nevada withD Groom Lake, Area 51, and exterrestrial conveyances of all shapes and sizes.E But there's more to Nevada than flying saucers, little green men, and   the tacky excesses of Las Vegas.  @ Sighted at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas just moments ago was anE excess of computational horsepower: a duo of EV7-Inside Compaq Marvel- enterprise servers.u  6 Up and running and prominently displayed to throngs ofC performance-hungry Compaq Storage customers were a 2P Marvel systemo? and an 8P configuration. Both were running Tru64 UNIX at speedspD estimated to be roughly consistent with that of "a bat out of hell."  B And we hear tell that Marvels have also been spotted away from ourE home town  and this time at the ENSA conference in Lisbon last week.u  E The Alpha Marvels are gradually being allowed out of the bottle then.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 07:07:00 -0700' From: sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) 9 Subject: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com-= Message-ID: <f897700f.0204160607.5484dd19@posting.google.com>   D I am trying to write some code that I can put in my sylogin.com file6 to query the users rights/identifiers and if a certainE right/identifier exists, run a com proc for that identifier.  I foundtE some information on comp.os.vms that will allow me to see the process A rights and store it in a symbol.  Now what I need to do with thatnF information is search that comma separated list and if a certain valueC exists, envset_all in this example, I want to run a script based one that.u  F Here is what I have so far.  The only thing that actually works though? is the part that gets the rights/identifiers and stores it in ae symbol.t  ( $ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS")% $ if 'RIGHTS' .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" theneB $  write sys$output "You are not authorized to be on this system." $ endif- $ exit  ( $ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS") $ sho sym rightsj   RIGHTS = "JOSESK,INTERACTIVE,REMOTE,NET$MANAGE,ORA_DBA,ORA_PROD1_DBA,REG_ADMIN,ORA_PROD2_DBA,ENVSET_ALL"  / When I run it interactively this is what I get:@	 $ @RIGHTSn= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellinga	  \JOSESK\t, You are not authorized to be on this system.@ %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data
 inconsistency   
 Any thoughts?h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:46:21 +0100w* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>= Subject: Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.coms+ Message-ID: <a9hdff$mii@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>o  4 "Shawn Joseph" <sdk_joseph@msn.com> wrote in message7 news:f897700f.0204160607.5484dd19@posting.google.com...l  ' > $ if 'RIGHTS' .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" thend   Two problems with this line:  : firstly, single quotes does expansion of the command line.H The quotes aren't part of the value of RIGHTS so after they are expanded you end up with:  7 JOSESK,INTERACTIVE,REMOTE,NET$MANAGE .NES. "ENVSET_ALL"   / which the interpreter then can't make sense of.o  # $ if RIGHTS .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" then   H will work fine, since in this context a symbol works fine as a variable.  G However, for block IFs in DCL you need to put the initial THEN on a newnE line. At the moment you have "IF condition THEN null statement", likeg if "(expr) ; " in C.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:40:24 +0200o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e= Subject: Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.comu' Message-ID: <3CBC37D8.9BE3E4B4@aaa.com>    A few notes...   Change t  % $ if 'RIGHTS' .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" thenu   into  8 $ if f$locate("ENVSET_ALL",RIGHTS) .eq. flength(RIGHTS) $ thenC $   write sys$output "You are not authorized to be on this system!"-  endife   Jan-Erik Sderholm     Shawn Joseph wrote:l >  > * > $ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS")' > $ if 'RIGHTS' .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" theniD > $  write sys$output "You are not authorized to be on this system."	 > $ endifa > $ exit >h   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 14:47:21 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>n= Subject: Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.comt5 Message-ID: <20020416144721.3808.qmail@gacracker.org>   8 On 16 Apr 2002, sdk_joseph@msn.com (Shawn Joseph) wrote:E >I am trying to write some code that I can put in my sylogin.com filee7 >to query the users rights/identifiers and if a certainvF >right/identifier exists, run a com proc for that identifier.  I foundF >some information on comp.os.vms that will allow me to see the processB >rights and store it in a symbol.  Now what I need to do with thatG >information is search that comma separated list and if a certain valuetD >exists, envset_all in this example, I want to run a script based on >that. > G >Here is what I have so far.  The only thing that actually works thoughi@ >is the part that gets the rights/identifiers and stores it in a >symbol. >n) >$ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS")l& >$ if 'RIGHTS' .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" thenC >$  write sys$output "You are not authorized to be on this system."d >$ endif >$ exiti >d) >$ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS")  >$ sho sym rightsh >  RIGHTS =uK >"JOSESK,INTERACTIVE,REMOTE,NET$MANAGE,ORA_DBA,ORA_PROD1_DBA,REG_ADMIN,ORA_r >PROD2_DBA,ENVSET_ALL" >a0 >When I run it interactively this is what I get:
 >$ @RIGHTS> >%DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling
 > \JOSESK\- >You are not authorized to be on this system.rA >%DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or dataf >inconsistency >  >Any thoughts?   Try this...y     $! $ say := write sys$outputo $!@ $! Place commas either side of rights list to ensure we test for $! a perfect match.  $!4 $ rights = "," + f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS") + "," $ say rights $!C $! What are we checking for? Again use commas to get perfect match.r $! $ checkfor = ",ENVSET_ALL,"t $!+ $! Look for the required right in the list., $!$ $ posn  = f$locate(checkfor, rights) $!8 $! Get the length of the rights list to do a comparison. $! $ r_len = f$length(rights) $!2 $! If no match posn will be the end of the string. $! $ if posn .EQ. r_len $ then: $       say "You are not authorized to access this system" $ endifR   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:31:53 -0400i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com= Subject: Re: Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.comn4 Message-ID: <C2256B9D.005F4C1F.00@jklh22.valmet.com>  8 $If  f$locate("ENVSET_ALL",RIGHTS) .EQ. f$length(RIGHTS) $ thenB $  write sys$output "You are not authorized to be on this system." $ logout $ endif    [see help lexical]          , sdk_joseph@msn.com on 04/16/2002 10:07:00 AM  $ Please respond to sdk_joseph@msn.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:p: Subject:  Evaluating/Processing Identifiers in sylogin.com      D I am trying to write some code that I can put in my sylogin.com file6 to query the users rights/identifiers and if a certainE right/identifier exists, run a com proc for that identifier.  I foundsE some information on comp.os.vms that will allow me to see the process-A rights and store it in a symbol.  Now what I need to do with thatrF information is search that comma separated list and if a certain valueC exists, envset_all in this example, I want to run a script based on  that.,  F Here is what I have so far.  The only thing that actually works though? is the part that gets the rights/identifiers and stores it in au symbol.n  ( $ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS")% $ if 'RIGHTS' .NES. "ENVSET_ALL" thensB $  write sys$output "You are not authorized to be on this system." $ endifa $ exit  ( $ rights = f$getjpi("","PROCESS_RIGHTS") $ sho sym rights
   RIGHTS =_ "JOSESK,INTERACTIVE,REMOTE,NET$MANAGE,ORA_DBA,ORA_PROD1_DBA,REG_ADMIN,ORA_PROD2_DBA,ENVSET_ALL"4    / When I run it interactively this is what I get:H	 $ @RIGHTSr= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling 	  \JOSESK\-, You are not authorized to be on this system.@ %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data
 inconsistencyr  
 Any thoughts?D   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:15:57 GMT $ From: "Upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com>4 Subject: Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS9 Message-ID: <xkPu8.46$Ei.1436805@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>a   Hi,a   Runningi sys$system:decw$startlogin9 displays the login shell only if the transport is DECnet.m  K But  login shell is not displayed if the transport is TCPIP.Can anyone helpy7 in why the exe does not work if the transport is TCPIP?    Regards,	 Upadhyaya    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:12:04 +0200T) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>h4 Subject: Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <3CBBDCD4.4020601@xs4all.nospam.nl>e   Upadhyaya wrote: > Hi,a > 	 > Running  > sys$system:decw$startlogin; > displays the login shell only if the transport is DECnet.o > M > But  login shell is not displayed if the transport is TCPIP.Can anyone help 9 > in why the exe does not work if the transport is TCPIP?h   I have the following:    $ show display        Device:    WSA6:  [super]      Node:      192.168.0.11      Transport: TCPIPo      Server:    0?      Screen:    0s   $ mcr decw$startlogina  , and I get the CDE login screen on my laptop.  I This is OpenVMS V7.3 and TCP/IP Services V5.1 on a DEC 3000-400 with 128 r? MB memory. My PC is running Windows2000 Pro and eXcursion V7.2.   	 Bart Zorna   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:14:38 GMT $ From: "Upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com>4 Subject: Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <ilWu8.10$5v.390248@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  J Running decw$startlogin after loging onto the VMS system allows you to get@ the login shell. But you will not get the login shell if you addK 'sys$system:decw$startlogin' in eXcursion control panel -> applications andsF try to run using TCPIP. But if the transport is DECnet, login shell is
 displayed.   Regards,	 Upadhyaya-   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 09:54:08 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)n4 Subject: Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <8k8cjN4FLxGy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <ilWu8.10$5v.390248@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, "Upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com> writes:SL > Running decw$startlogin after loging onto the VMS system allows you to getB > the login shell. But you will not get the login shell if you addM > 'sys$system:decw$startlogin' in eXcursion control panel -> applications anduH > try to run using TCPIP. But if the transport is DECnet, login shell is > displayed.  ? Check to see that you have TCPIP enabled as a transport.  On my  V7.3 system I issue...  & $ sho log decw$server_trans*/tab=decw*   (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)   (DECW$SERVER0_TABLE)  %   "DECW$SERVER_TRANSPORTS" = "DECNET"          = "LOCAL"o  < Which means if I wanted to use TCPIP as a transport on this C machine I'd have to edit SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM,e: change the entry for the transport and restart the server.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:27:02 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n) Subject: Re: Fearless VMS Prognostication-, Message-ID: <a9hn7s$3hnt$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  - david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message ...r? >In article <a9ere3$flfv$2@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge"S% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:f >oC >Unfortunately although your last paragraph might describe the IA32n architecture6 >it definitely doesn't describe the IA64 architecture.J >There is no evidence that Intel plans to make the IA64 a low cost chip orK >that it's market share in 64bit computing will be any greater than Alphas.VE >Jumping from a small but perfectly serviceable boat onto the Titanic C >(and sinking the boat you came in) just as it becomes apparent thek2 >Titanic's heading for an iceberg seems foolhardy. >p  ? "Low-cost" is relative.  It will be low cost relative to Alpha.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:15:49 +0300o) From: "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com>n% Subject: Free Encyption tool for VMS?I* Message-ID: <a9gmjo$stf@news.or.intel.com>   All,J I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems.* Any one knows such simple encryption tool?   Thanks,w  
 Iris Green  	 VMS groupd   Email : Iris.green@intel.com   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 08:09:13 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?-6 Message-ID: <20020416080913.27897.qmail@gacracker.org>  ? On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com> wrote:g >All,gK >I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems.a+ >Any one knows such simple encryption tool?t   How about PGP?  % http://www.pl.pgpi.org/platforms/vms/>  F This is, admittedly, an old version but files encrypted with it can be5 decrypted with newer PGP versions on other platforms.e  I David Mathog has also done a port of GPG, this can be downloaded from theL following URL:  E http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/openvms/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zipr     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:04:26 +0010p% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au ) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?M5 Message-ID: <01KGN6L28JKI000LAU@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>t   Iris,,  K >I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems.c+ >Any one knows such simple encryption tool?-    N The ZIP suite of programs has a ZIPCLOAK which enables encryption.  In US you N should have no problem with accessing the encryption algorithm to link with.  M In fact, I think that nowhere should any of us has problems as it is written  N in Europe and available from ZIP sites there.  [I heard a few years back that ? this funniness might disappear from US, has this happened yet?]   L The other simple tool that I have come across is ENCRYPT available from the . old DECUS library.  Is this yet re-accessible?   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:14:24 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS? ) Message-ID: <3CBBF980.23DD3D68@127.0.0.1>o   Iris Green wrote:e  L > I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems., > Any one knows such simple encryption tool?  " Depends what you mean by 'simple'.  D You need to consider what level of security you need, this should beE your most important consideration, and if the security level selected H will keep your data secret to you. If whatever method you've used can be+ broken, you've wasted your time and effort.F  E The other question, is do you want to pay? What is the cost of losingm
 your secrets?t  : You could spend $5k and lose $10m if the secrets were lost4 You could spend $10k and your secrets could be safe.  E But this is not the whole story, the procedures you employ will be as.E critical as the tool handling the secrets. It's no use using the best E locks and keys in the business if the janitor could pick them up fromA
 your desk.  H Now I've hopefully alerted you to a few considerations, for VMS you haveG PGP, frozen at 2.6, but used properly should address most if not all oft your considerations.  F Use a search engine (I used Google) to search on PGP, VMS and DOWNLOADE and you'll have some pointers to finding and being able to build yourrE own copy of the freeware version. It also comes with a couple of textD. manuals, that I thoroughly recommend you read.  E You could spend $0 and your secrets could be safe, but you'll need to	' invest in the procedures and education.    Hope this helps. -- 1( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:24:19 +020029 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS? ' Message-ID: <3CBBFBD3.65CA0B38@aaa.com>i  8 I don't know how secure it is, but my out-of-the-box ZIP9 tool have a "-e" option that will add a "password" to thes9 ZIP file. The password have to be entered when UNZIP'ing.s  & Maybe this is what Paddy ment below...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > D > The ZIP suite of programs has a ZIPCLOAK which enables encryption.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:45:54 GMTd- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)a) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?o1 Message-ID: <3cbbff80.244356476@news.process.com>U  M On 16 Apr 2002 08:09:13 -0000, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>l wrote:  J >David Mathog has also done a port of GPG, this can be downloaded from the >following URL:t >EF >http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/openvms/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zip >n< You can also find David's programs on ftp.process.com under  [.VMS-FREEWARE.MATHOG].0  < ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/mathog/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zipA http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/mathog/gnupg1_0_4_vms.zip    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/m8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 08:44:01 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?o3 Message-ID: <VYbHqbv3XoiE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3CBBF980.23DD3D68@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  J > Now I've hopefully alerted you to a few considerations, for VMS you haveI > PGP, frozen at 2.6, but used properly should address most if not all off > your considerations.  ; I thought that implementation did not allow commercial use.I   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 14:22:27 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>g) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?s5 Message-ID: <20020416142227.3168.qmail@gacracker.org>D  > On 16 Apr 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:4 >In article <3CBBF980.23DD3D68@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews! ><sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:c >aK >> Now I've hopefully alerted you to a few considerations, for VMS you have.J >> PGP, frozen at 2.6, but used properly should address most if not all of >> your considerations.  >-< >I thought that implementation did not allow commercial use.  D I don't have a copy of the 2.6.3 User's Guide to check that, but the0 copyright comment in the source is as follows...    F    PGP is available for free to the public under certain restrictions.A    See the PGP User's Guide (included in the release package) forg@    important information about licensing, patent restrictions onC    certain algorithms, trademarks, copyrights, and export controls.c    F FWIW, I think Larry is correct. However I very much doubt if anyone is@ still selling a version for commercial use on VMS. Shame really.  K I've got Phil Zimmermann's phone number somewhere if you want to ask him if 5 he's still able to license you the 2.6.3 version. :-)i     Doc. -- t6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netn   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 14:24:31 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>2) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?-5 Message-ID: <20020416142431.3211.qmail@gacracker.org>n  ; On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:. >Iris, >aL >>I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems., >>Any one knows such simple encryption tool? >q >O >The ZIP suite of programs has a ZIPCLOAK which enables encryption.  In US you sO >should have no problem with accessing the encryption algorithm to link with.   N >In fact, I think that nowhere should any of us has problems as it is written O >in Europe and available from ZIP sites there.  [I heard a few years back that a@ >this funniness might disappear from US, has this happened yet?]  E The ITAR restrictions have been dropped now. Strong crypto can now be[ exported from the USA.     Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:24:14 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?eE Message-ID: <ymXu8.2221$iw1.246@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  
 www.gnupg.orgs  * You'll have to build and test it yourself.      4 "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com> wrote in message$ news:a9gmjo$stf@news.or.intel.com... > All,L > I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems., > Any one knows such simple encryption tool? >a	 > Thanks,  >. > Iris Green >t > VMS groupw >s > Email : Iris.green@intel.com >e >g >/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:40:51 GMTO2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?r8 Message-ID: <nuYu8.16$MA.660647@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <a9gmjo$stf@news.or.intel.com>, "Iris Green" <iris.green@intel.com> writes:  K :I am looking an encryption tool for files transferred between our systems._+ :Any one knows such simple encryption tool?s  =   Beware, there is no such thing as a simple encryption tool.k  E   That said, the OpenVMS FAQ has pointers to PGP, SSL, SSH and such,  A   and there is the Compaq Encryption product for OpenVMS (DES).   C   As was mentioned elsewhere, a GnuPG (GPG) port is also available. H   OpenSSL is (will be) a supported part of the upcoming V7.3-1 release, 5   and work on a supported version of SSH is underway.h  E   This topic arises fairly regularly, so the newsgroup archives will  F   also have various pointers -- check the Google or INFO-VAX archives.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:30:32 -0400-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o7 Subject: Re: From comp.sys.dec - deserves exposure herei, Message-ID: <a9hneh$33dg$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  H Modular has been shut down.  My wife saw him a few months ago, and he is doing fine.h    > Didier Morandi wrote in message <3CB667D2.3CD35CC5@Free.fr>... >:-) >yG >btw, how is Ken? Last time I tried to access his company web site, then server >did not answer anymore. >a >D.s >d >Bill Todd wrote:c >>F >> 4/1/2002  11:15:01 AM  MAYNARD, Mass,   Apr 1, 2002 (APP Online viaK >> JALTEX) -- The fight against the computer industry's biggest merger took G >> a totally unexpected twist today... Ken Olsen, founder of the formerrL >> Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, Ma. stated that he is buying both: >> Compaq and Hewlett-Packard Co. for $40 billion dollars. >../..   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:22:49 +0200o7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>a% Subject: RE: full file backup to diskaO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6E43@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>e   This would be better :)o  c $ backup /ign=inter dka:[*...] /exclude=dka0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK dka0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK /saveg  5 Otherwise you endup backupping the backupfile itself.L  t( > Use /SAVE_SET on the destination file: >  e> > $ BACK/IGN=INTER DKA0:[*...] DKA0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK/SAVE >  > Mike Scott wrote:  > > ? > > I don't have a tape device, and wish to make a full (file) B > backup to disk._8 > > I only have the one disk in my system.  I tried the  > following command:< > > $ BACKUP/IGNORE=INTER/IGNORE=LABEL DKA0:[000000...]*.*;* > > DKA0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK6 > > and got a ton of errors about FILE ALREADY EXISTS.2 > > Am I missing some bit of syntax?  -with thanks > > ? > > p.s. my motivation is to have a complete system archive so - > I can restore 3 > > individual files back to a known state (day-0).c >  > -- j@ > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:37:06 -0400$6 From: "Norman Lastovica" <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: RE: full file backup to disko2 Message-ID: <000101c1e53b$09648ba0$020101c0@NJLPC>  ; I believe that [*...] excludes [0000000] in backup context:   > Mingo TNA4:> mcr sysman io conn mda0/noada/driver=sys$mddriver$ Mingo TNA4:> init/size=500 mda0 test Mingo TNA4:> mou/sys mda0 test3 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST mounted on _$1$MDA0: (MINGO)e% Mingo TNA4:> cre/dir mda0:[lastovica]a$ Mingo TNA4:> cre mda0:[lastovica]x.x  Exit H Mingo TNA4:> backup/log/ignore=inter mda0:[*...] mda0:[000000]foo.bar/sa2 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied MDA0:[000000]000000.DIR;15 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied MDA0:[000000]LASTOVICA.DIR;1e. %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied MDA0:[LASTOVICA]X.X;1
 Mingo TNA4:> P   > -----Original Message-----> > From: Dijk, Jeroen van [mailto:Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com]' > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:23 AM - > To: 'norm lastovica'; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come' > Subject: RE: full file backup to disk  >  >  > This would be better :)n > ! > $ backup /ign=inter dka:[*...] DF > /exclude=dka0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK dka0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK /save > 7 > Otherwise you endup backupping the backupfile itself.- >   * > > Use /SAVE_SET on the destination file: > >  a@ > > $ BACK/IGN=INTER DKA0:[*...] DKA0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK/SAVE > >  > > Mike Scott wrote:8 > > > A > > > I don't have a tape device, and wish to make a full (file) i > > backup to disk.m: > > > I only have the one disk in my system.  I tried the  > > following command:> > > > $ BACKUP/IGNORE=INTER/IGNORE=LABEL DKA0:[000000...]*.*;*  > > > DKA0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK8 > > > and got a ton of errors about FILE ALREADY EXISTS.4 > > > Am I missing some bit of syntax?  -with thanks > > > A > > > p.s. my motivation is to have a complete system archive so r > > I can restoreu5 > > > individual files back to a known state (day-0).s > >  > > -- 4B > > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685 > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:41:58 -0400t2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: Re: full file backup to disko* Message-ID: <3CBC0E05.54B72C43@oracle.com>   "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote:s >  > This would be better :)n > e > $ backup /ign=inter dka:[*...] /exclude=dka0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK dka0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK /saves > 7 > Otherwise you endup backupping the backupfile itself.s  3 	actually, backup doesn't work like that.  there isc8 a difference between [*...] and [000000...].  I stand by my suggestion.  For example:  > Mingo TNA4:> mcr sysman io conn mda0/noada/driver=sys$mddriver$ Mingo TNA4:> init/size=500 mda0 test Mingo TNA4:> mou/sys mda0 test3 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST mounted on _$1$MDA0: (MINGO)s% Mingo TNA4:> cre/dir mda0:[lastovica]-$ Mingo TNA4:> cre mda0:[lastovica]x.x  Exit H Mingo TNA4:> backup/log/ignore=inter mda0:[*...] mda0:[000000]foo.bar/sa2 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied MDA0:[000000]000000.DIR;15 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied MDA0:[000000]LASTOVICA.DIR;12. %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied MDA0:[LASTOVICA]X.X;1
 Mingo TNA4:> a   > * > > Use /SAVE_SET on the destination file: > >o@ > > $ BACK/IGN=INTER DKA0:[*...] DKA0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK/SAVE > >h > > Mike Scott wrote:r > > >u@ > > > I don't have a tape device, and wish to make a full (file) > > backup to disk.I9 > > > I only have the one disk in my system.  I tried them > > following command:> > > > $ BACKUP/IGNORE=INTER/IGNORE=LABEL DKA0:[000000...]*.*;*  > > > DKA0:[000000]ALL_FILES.BCK8 > > > and got a ton of errors about FILE ALREADY EXISTS.4 > > > Am I missing some bit of syntax?  -with thanks > > > @ > > > p.s. my motivation is to have a complete system archive so > > I can restorea5 > > > individual files back to a known state (day-0).p > >2 > > --B > > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685 > >t   -- l> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:47:23 +1200 & From: A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> Subject: FW: clusterG Message-ID: <BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FFCBCB18@exchsvr.FSC.COM.FJ>-   Hans;-     Here you go;   Show /cluster on sysgen    Node A  G Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     UnitV Dynami^sL VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0          2 Coded-valuG EXPECTED_VOTES                  3          1         1        127 VotestG VOTES                           2          1         0        127 Votes I RECNXINTERVAL                  20         20         1      32767 Secondsr DvG DISK_QUORUM     "                "    "    "    "    "     "ZZZZ" AsciiaG QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0        127 VoteshI QDSKINTERVAL                   10         10         1      32767 Seconds L ALLOCLASS                       1          0         0        255 Pure-numbeL LOCKDIRWT                       0          0         0        255 Pure-numbeI CLUSTER_CREDITS                10         10        10        128 Credits I NISCS_CONV_BOOT                 0          0         0          1 BooleanrI NISCS_LOAD_PEA0                 1          0         0          1 BooleanVI NISCS_PORT_SERV                 0          0         0          3 BitmaskIL MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0      16384 Coded-valuL TMSCP_LOAD                      0          0         0          3 Coded-valuL MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          0         0          2 Coded-valuL TMSCP_SERVE_ALL                 0          0         0          3 Coded-valuL MSCP_BUFFER                   128        128        16         -1 Coded-valuL MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2        128 Coded-valuI MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         0 2147483647 Secondsh D L TAPE_ALLOCLASS                  0          0         0        255 Pure-numbeG NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ              1498       1498      1080       8192 Bytes G NISCS_LAN_OVRHD                18         18         0        256 Bytes>I CWCREPRC_ENABLE                 1          1         0          1 Bitmask8 D7         Node B  G Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unite Dynami^ L VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0          2 Coded-valuG EXPECTED_VOTES                  3          1         1        127 VoteshG VOTES                           1          1         0        127 Votesl" <CR><LF>Parameters in use: CurrentG Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unito Dynami^nL VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0          2 Coded-valuG EXPECTED_VOTES                  3          1         1        127 VotessG VOTES                           1          1         0        127 VoteshI RECNXINTERVAL                  20         20         1      32767 Secondsa DhG DISK_QUORUM     "DKA100          "    "    "    "    "     "ZZZZ" AsciiiG QDSKVOTES                       0          1         0        127 Votes I QDSKINTERVAL                   10         10         1      32767 SecondsfL ALLOCLASS                       2          0         0        255 Pure-numbeL LOCKDIRWT                       0          0         0        255 Pure-numbeI CLUSTER_CREDITS                10         10        10        128 CreditsuI NISCS_CONV_BOOT                 0          0         0          1 Boolean I NISCS_LOAD_PEA0                 1          0         0          1 BooleanuI NISCS_PORT_SERV                 0          0         0          3 BitmaskeL MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0      16384 Coded-valuL TMSCP_LOAD                      0          0         0          3 Coded-valuL MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          0         0          2 Coded-valuL TMSCP_SERVE_ALL                 0          0         0          3 Coded-valuL MSCP_BUFFER                   128        128        16         -1 Coded-valuL MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2        128 Coded-valuI MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         0 2147483647 Seconds. D L TAPE_ALLOCLASS                  0          0         0        255 Pure-numbeG NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ              1498       1498      1080       8192 Bytes-G NISCS_LAN_OVRHD                18         18         0        256 BytesuI CWCREPRC_ENABLE                 1          1         0          1 BitmaskS D        -----Original Message------ From:	Hans Vlems [mailto:hvlems@zfree.co.nz] 0$ Sent:	Monday, April 15, 2002 9:40 PM To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv Subject:	Re: cluster    3 It would be nice to have a little more information.i1 Post the output (on both nodes) from the command:f $ mc sysgen sho /cluster Hans' A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote:o >tK >I have two node (A & B)  forming a cluster and  both connected on shadowedrJ >environment.  On node A I have $1$dka0, on node B its $2$dka0.  these twoF >disks are shadowed. When I boot each node, it couldn't recognised the member7 >of the shadow set.  Its says no such device available.wH >On Node A... this error message appeared "$2$dka0 failed as a member of the. >shadow set"= >On Node B ... "$1$dka0 failed as a member of the shadow set"r > J >When I do a show cluster on each node....it shows only the  current node. >V@ >Can someone advise how to configure these two nodes properly.   >c >Asena >0 >D >6       http://www.zfree.co.nz    .   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:34:03 GMTr' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>t Subject: Re: FW: cluster$ Message-ID: <3cbbf007$1@zfree.co.nz>  < It seems you're running an NI-only cluster and you're trying= to keep one node running if the other one fails by defining a6 quorum disk, right?0L Another poster already mentioned this, in an NI cluster with shadowed systemI disks across the network, the first node that boots cannot find the otherc; shadowset member. Unless the two systems get booted at the KB same time, because they will try and find other cluster members toN register cluster membership. The second node that boots should find the remote0 shadow member, unless the cluster is not formed.O A cluster authorization name and number is required to become a cluster member.d  L About the quorum disk: the cluster configuration manual states that a quorumA disk must be locally attached to the node on which it is defined.eJ HSC/HSJ/HSZ disks count as local disks when directly connected via the CI,J DSSI or SCSI bus. The quorum disk is assigned votes for that purpose. YourH configuration shows a quorum disk on node B and the votes are registered
 on node A.H What you can do (supported) is to define a quorum disk and votes on nodeI B. The end result is almost the same as assigning two votes for the node. H In a two node NI cluster the quorum disk votes are not used, not countedH as long as there is quorum derived from system votes. If B loses contactH with A it will start to use the quorum disk, regain quorum and continue.I It would do the same if it had two votes in the first place. If node B ishH lost the A will be stuck in a cluster state transition because it quorum	 is lost. -  4 Note 1: a shadow set member cannot be a quorum disk.6 Note 2: there may be only one quorum disk in a cluster  L The absolutely unsupported way to keep one node going if the other one failsL is by assigning each node 1 vote, its own (local) quorum disk and the quorumJ disk gets one vote as well. Expected votes on both nodes must be set to 2.H If both nodes are up, the cluster keeps running because there is quorum.I If one node fails, the other "finds" its own quorum disk, adds that vote,n/ regains quorum and continues business as usual.sL This obviously violates several rules in the cluster manual, but worked fineI for me on a two node cluster with microVAX 3100-88's running V5.5-2H4. ItfL is not a supported configuration so don't do it in a production environment.1 It worked for 14 months without corrupting disks.T  ' A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote:n >Hans; >n >w
 >Here you go;f >  >Show /cluster on sysgen >  >Node Ae >mH >Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit >Dynami^M >VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0          2 Coded-valu1H >EXPECTED_VOTES                  3          1         1        127 VotesH >VOTES                           2          1         0        127 VotesJ >RECNXINTERVAL                  20         20         1      32767 Seconds >DH >DISK_QUORUM     "                "    "    "    "    "     "ZZZZ" AsciiH >QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0        127 VotesJ >QDSKINTERVAL                   10         10         1      32767 SecondsM >ALLOCLASS                       1          0         0        255 Pure-numbe M >LOCKDIRWT                       0          0         0        255 Pure-numbeaJ >CLUSTER_CREDITS                10         10        10        128 CreditsJ >NISCS_CONV_BOOT                 0          0         0          1 BooleanJ >NISCS_LOAD_PEA0                 1          0         0          1 BooleanJ >NISCS_PORT_SERV                 0          0         0          3 BitmaskM >MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0      16384 Coded-valupM >TMSCP_LOAD                      0          0         0          3 Coded-valu M >MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          0         0          2 Coded-valu M >TMSCP_SERVE_ALL                 0          0         0          3 Coded-valumM >MSCP_BUFFER                   128        128        16         -1 Coded-valubM >MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2        128 Coded-valu J >MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         0 2147483647 Seconds >DM >TAPE_ALLOCLASS                  0          0         0        255 Pure-numbeOH >NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ              1498       1498      1080       8192 BytesH >NISCS_LAN_OVRHD                18         18         0        256 BytesJ >CWCREPRC_ENABLE                 1          1         0          1 Bitmask >D >- >- >- >- >Node B- >-H >Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit >Dynami^M >VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0          2 Coded-valuFH >EXPECTED_VOTES                  3          1         1        127 VotesH >VOTES                           1          1         0        127 Votes# ><CR><LF>Parameters in use: Current H >Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit >Dynami^M >VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0          2 Coded-valu H >EXPECTED_VOTES                  3          1         1        127 VotesH >VOTES                           1          1         0        127 VotesJ >RECNXINTERVAL                  20         20         1      32767 Seconds >DH >DISK_QUORUM     "DKA100          "    "    "    "    "     "ZZZZ" AsciiH >QDSKVOTES                       0          1         0        127 VotesJ >QDSKINTERVAL                   10         10         1      32767 SecondsM >ALLOCLASS                       2          0         0        255 Pure-numbe,M >LOCKDIRWT                       0          0         0        255 Pure-numbesJ >CLUSTER_CREDITS                10         10        10        128 CreditsJ >NISCS_CONV_BOOT                 0          0         0          1 BooleanJ >NISCS_LOAD_PEA0                 1          0         0          1 BooleanJ >NISCS_PORT_SERV                 0          0         0          3 BitmaskM >MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0      16384 Coded-valuNM >TMSCP_LOAD                      0          0         0          3 Coded-valu M >MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          0         0          2 Coded-valutM >TMSCP_SERVE_ALL                 0          0         0          3 Coded-valu M >MSCP_BUFFER                   128        128        16         -1 Coded-valu0M >MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2        128 Coded-valu J >MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         0 2147483647 Seconds >DM >TAPE_ALLOCLASS                  0          0         0        255 Pure-numbelH >NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ              1498       1498      1080       8192 BytesH >NISCS_LAN_OVRHD                18         18         0        256 BytesJ >CWCREPRC_ENABLE                 1          1         0          1 Bitmask >D >o >a >a >-----Original Message-----i. >From:	Hans Vlems [mailto:hvlems@zfree.co.nz] % >Sent:	Monday, April 15, 2002 9:40 PMt >To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject:	Re: clusteri >  >44 >It would be nice to have a little more information.2 >Post the output (on both nodes) from the command: >$ mc sysgen sho /clusterM >Hans ( >A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote: >>L >>I have two node (A & B)  forming a cluster and  both connected on shadowedK >>environment.  On node A I have $1$dka0, on node B its $2$dka0.  these twoUG >>disks are shadowed. When I boot each node, it couldn't recognised theA >member]8 >>of the shadow set.  Its says no such device available.I >>On Node A... this error message appeared "$2$dka0 failed as a member ofn >the
 >>shadow set"a> >>On Node B ... "$1$dka0 failed as a member of the shadow set" >>K >>When I do a show cluster on each node....it shows only the  current node.o >>A >>Can someone advise how to configure these two nodes properly.  k >> >>Asena  >> >> >> >0 >0 >L >http://www.zfree.co.nzA >F > .B       http://www.zfree.co.nz    .   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 06:46:12 -0700 From: vadya@ibjus.com (Vinit)A Subject: Re: FW: cluster= Message-ID: <95014e43.0204160546.4529fd36@posting.google.com>    Hi A,   E You need to run the procredure on both the nodes and reboot them. ItspE a good idea to add a Quorum disk as it will ensure cluster is up even F if one node is down. Any disk which is locally reachable from both the? nodes can be a candidate. Also i still do not know what kind of E hardware r u using? Which clustering topology do u have. these thingsf: will help you make a desition on what you really wanna do. Cheers Vinite  u A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote in message news:<BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FFCBCB07@exchsvr.FSC.COM.FJ>...o > Vidya, > @ > Do I have to execute cluster_config on both nodes?  ie executeK > cluster_config on Node A and add node B  likewise on Node B to add node Am
 > Am I right?m >  > Sorry, I'm newbie to vms >  > thanks >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From:	vadya@ibjus.com [mailto:vadya@ibjus.com] w' > Sent:	Tuesday, April 16, 2002 3:47 AM  > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > Subject:	Re: cluster > 3 > A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote in message E > news:<BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FFCBCB01@exchsvr.FSC.COM.FJ>...cN > > I have two node (A & B)  forming a cluster and  both connected on shadowedM > > environment.  On node A I have $1$dka0, on node B its $2$dka0.  these twonI > > disks are shadowed. When I boot each node, it couldn't recognised theg	 >  memberu: > > of the shadow set.  Its says no such device available.K > > On Node A... this error message appeared "$2$dka0 failed as a member ofo >  the > > shadow set"N@ > > On Node B ... "$1$dka0 failed as a member of the shadow set" > > M > > When I do a show cluster on each node....it shows only the  current node.0 > > C > > Can someone advise how to configure these two nodes properly.    > > 	 > > Asena  >  > Hello, > H > If "show cluster" shows only one system, you do not have a VMS cluster > configured on the nodes. > You will have to run  7 > "@sys$manager:CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM" to set up clusters.aG > You will ned to know What kind of cluster interconnect are you using.s > cheers > Vinitm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:07:18 +01000T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux & Message-ID: <3CBBF7D6.5090609@sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  b > In article <j70ebuoven1manm8fh9uvt1a7tbk2ebegm@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> writes: >   E > 	This is because he is a master of mis-direction and hasn't changedoD > 	much since early 1994 in Usenet.  He isn't alone.  There are manyC > 	in this forum that take few chances and talk in generalities andrF > 	*rarely* are clearly wrong.  Popcorn Posters.  Mostly content free. >      Sigh  0 Every 3 months its my duty to do this sorry Rob./ If you didn't keep forgetting your past posting / history and repeating your mistakes I would not  need to resort to this..  0 You have been personnaly responsible for some of- the most blatant "Popcorn posts" sent to this 
 newsgroup.  
 Lets recap  . eBay, you Fuded Sun without having a clue what/ you were talking about and finally admitted the 0 case citing "cut and paste" errors on your part.  6 WildFire, you pre-announced WildFire by some 18 months5 and then kept suggesting that it was just arround theZ corner. It wasn't.  9 WildFire again. Based on apparently impecable informatione9 you claimed that WildFire would sweep all the competition : asside, specifically you claimed that it would do >200,000) TPC-C TPM when announced. This was false.I  ? Galaxies. You claimed that Galaxies were going to revolutionisem; the way people ran systems, targetting server consolidation 9 etc. You attempted to back what turned out to be baseless : speculation with the claim that Galaxies were so cool that7 Sybase and Oracle were really interested in them. ThereO7 was no shred of evidence for this at the time and as it 9 turned out Sybase were about to drop OpenVMS and Galaxies + havn't had remotely the impact you claimed.   1 Spiralog. After reading one too many Compaq white-1 papers you claimed that it was going to sweep all 4 other systems away, extravagent speculation included1 huge boosts in TPC-C performance just by stickinga1 Spiralog on the box. This was as we all know also  baseless speculation.-  2 I can go on and on up to and including the present5 day when you were I think the first non-Compaq poster 5 on this newsgroup to rush boost IA-64 having been theA1 most fervent anti IA-64 FUDSTER the prevous week.0  3 All popcorn postings. Incedentally many people will94 forgive you for your "cut and paste" errors when you1 were FUDDING Sun over eBay but the other stuff is5& much closer to home and more damaging.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:31:09 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> % Subject: HSG controller and new disks ? Message-ID: <hQUu8.212066$K52.33145442@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>   K I have a couple of pairs of HSG80 controllers that have just had a bunch of  new disks added.E Most of these disks are 18GB, but two of them are 72 GB.  What is thea9 easiest way to determine which disks are the 72 GB disks?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:03:25 -0400 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>) Subject: RE: HSG controller and new disks M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3809@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   7 Ah... besides looking at the label on each disk? <grin>h  9 I think a RUN CONFIG followed by SHOW DISK and then SHOW "0 on each individual disk to see what model it is.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway  Albany, NY  12204  USA  518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com   ) I post personal opinion only, and all the * disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).C+ One should also take note of the Electronic ) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, which + imposes civil and criminal liability on any ( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   -----Original Message-----( From: John N. [mailto:JNixon@cfl.rr.com]% Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 8:31 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % Subject: HSG controller and new disks     K I have a couple of pairs of HSG80 controllers that have just had a bunch of  new disks added.E Most of these disks are 18GB, but two of them are 72 GB.  What is the 9 easiest way to determine which disks are the 72 GB disks?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:58:36 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!& Message-ID: <3CBBE7BC.6080404@sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CBB15E6.3F7B6799@videotron.ca... > * >>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>8 >>>I have repeatedly given examples of how the GS series= >>>are not competitive based on Compaqs own public, published9# >>>benchmark results for the boxes.u >>>: >>I >>Andrew, did Sun ever fix the problem with its memory going bezerk undereE >>certain circumstances (aka: all those ebay problems for instance) ?a >> > G > Yes, IIRC they did - by disabling the cache in the affected series ofnK > products, and by recently issuing a new series without the cache problem.  >     = Sort of the ecache fix didn't involve disabling it instead we 9 have introduced a new module which has a mirrored ecache.   A Turning the L2 cache off on a Ultra II would have had dissaterouse effects on performance.$   Regards  Andrew Harrisonh     >  If so, is > ; >>it still fair to say that Sun has very bad memory today ?  >> > K > It would be if they were criticizing others for the same type of problem,n& > but AFAICT that's not the case here. >  > E >>In the same vein, has Digital fixed some of the initial performance. >>
 > problems >  >>in the wildfires ? >> > J > Not to my knowledge:  I haven't seen any indication that Wildfire memory) > access latencies have improved, anyway.f > 9 >  If so, is it still fair to say that they don't performu > I >>properly today ? And when you consider the upcoming EV7 based wildfiresr6 >>(marvel), will the new wildfires really perform ???? >> > E > They won't be Wildfires, but Marvels.  And while they well may bloweK > everyone's socks off, they aren't yet available nor do they have any realg9 > bearing on the comments being made about the GS series.n >  > K >>It is very easy to use older statistics to show a competitor is weak. Buth >> > it > J >>will come back to hurt you because when the customer checks and gets theI >>updated statistics from the other vendor, he will see through to tactic  >> > and: > ) >>that gives you negative brownie points.  >> > J > You appear to be confusing currently-available products with future onesN > (Rob has this problem as well).  While I suspect Marvel will indeed turn outJ > to be everything that Wildfire was not, using Wildfire statistics is notJ > 'using older statatistics' yet:  they're the most up-to-date information > available. >  > J >>You can hammer Digital/Compaq/HP all you want about VMS's costs and lack >> > of > H >>marketing and lack of visible future. That is plenty to steer clear ofJ >>Digital/Compaq/HP/whatever. But on a performance basis, are you ready to >> > state  > L >>that a bunch of separate Sun boxes, connected by wathever, will outperform >> > a. > + >>wildfire with same number of processors ?  >> > I > Why do you want to compare a bunch of Sun boxes with a single Wildfire?bJ > IIRC Sun sells single boxes with more than twice the processors a single > Wildfire can contain.a > J > A single Sun E10K box (with its cache turned off) may well not match theI > performance of a Wildfire with the same number of processors (though ittM > might if the cache could be used, and some lesser Sun boxes that don't havevM > the same cache problem might too).  My impression is that a single Sun E15KuL > box may well outperform a Wildfire with the same number of processors, but0 > it would be interesting to see actual numbers. >  > - bill >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:55:37 +0100eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!& Message-ID: <3CBBE709.2090709@sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:s  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 7 >>I have repeatedly given examples of how the GS seriesg< >>are not competitive based on Compaqs own public, published" >>benchmark results for the boxes. >> >  > I > Andrew, did Sun ever fix the problem with its memory going bezerk under O > certain circumstances (aka: all those ebay problems for instance) ? If so, is ; > it still fair to say that Sun has very bad memory today ?t >     < You have read far to many of Robs attempts at FUD so its not, suprising you may have the wrong impression.  B eBays problems or at least the very long 22 hour outage attributedB by Rob to Sun was not caused by memory problems of any kind it wasA caused by a unapplied patch to a 3rd party product. Had the patch 2 been in place the problem would not have happened.  @ Sun did have an ecache problem with Ultra II based systems. ThisE does not apply to the current Ultra III or Ultra III+ based machines.   @ I say did because Sun has supplied a replacement Ultra II moduleA which rectifies the ecache issue on Ultra II based systems. Among 9 other things Sun has changed its ecache supplier as well.E    N > In the same vein, has Digital fixed some of the initial performance problemsK > in the wildfires ? If so, is it still fair to say that they don't perform I > properly today ? And when you consider the upcoming EV7 based wildfires 6 > (marvel), will the new wildfires really perform ???? >     H No, the issues with the GS160/320 have not been rectified you would needE a new interconnect to do this. If you want evidence of this then look1H no further than Compaqs current TPC-C number for the GS320 with 1001 MhzH CPU's this uses OPS in a box to reduce the effect of having a relativelyH long remote memory latency. If the problem had been rectified then there5 would have been no need to use this tuning technique.   H Marvel is a new system and Compaq will one assume have learnt from their WildFire mistakes.    N > It is very easy to use older statistics to show a competitor is weak. But itJ > will come back to hurt you because when the customer checks and gets theM > updated statistics from the other vendor, he will see through to tactic and ) > that gives you negative brownie points.  >     F Currently marvel isn't in production, GS320s and GS160s are the top of% the range and they have not improved.     M > You can hammer Digital/Compaq/HP all you want about VMS's costs and lack of H > marketing and lack of visible future. That is plenty to steer clear ofP > Digital/Compaq/HP/whatever. But on a performance basis, are you ready to stateN > that a bunch of separate Sun boxes, connected by wathever, will outperform a+ > wildfire with same number of processors ?  >     I Yes I know this is counter intuitive but thats what you have to conclude  E   if you compare the all large commercial type benchmark results that E Compaq have published for the GS160/320 with Suns comparable results.   @ I know this also may be counter intuitive based on the stuff youA people get fed on this newsgroup but this isn't new it dates back ? to the GS140/8400 which was only competive early in its product 
 lifecycle.  > I am only talking about large servers here although it is also= worth noting that Digital when marketing the Alpha running NTN= were forced to invent the best performance for a 2 CPU server1= category not telling their customers that 4 CPU intel servers = were 2 x as fast as the Alpha running the same benchmark. The : Intel vendors had simply not bothered to run the benchmark with 2 CPU boxes.    Regards  Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 05:47:00 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204160447.6b065e1a@posting.google.com>C  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<JA5t8.90154$l7.7051063@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...C > "Bob (The Mouth) Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0204101555.413e3a5a@posting.google.com... < > > from the inquirer ... notice the server inflection point/ > > Alpha step in write up ... I told you J.F.!  > K > You've told people a bunch of things.  Again and again.  But that doesn't  > give them any more weight. > K > And babbling on again today:  first, the Inquirer article (which at leastkN > some people will read) that quotes Terry's article (which otherwise would beL > read by far fewer people) critiquing (and if you read it carefully not allN > that negatively) a Gartner report (the only thing that a whole lot of people1 > will read and many will believe), and now this.h > > > 'Inflection point' my ass.  They've been listening to Carly. >  > - bill  @ how come everyone I know whos last name begins w/Todd is so rude? and obnoxious?  My aunt was a Todd and had the same problem ...n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:30:28 +0100dT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!& Message-ID: <3CBC4394.3060302@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:d  t > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<JA5t8.90154$l7.7051063@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... > C >>"Bob (The Mouth) Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee9 >>news:d7791aa1.0204101555.413e3a5a@posting.google.com...: >>; >>>from the inquirer ... notice the server inflection point . >>>Alpha step in write up ... I told you J.F.! >>> K >>You've told people a bunch of things.  Again and again.  But that doesn'ts >>give them any more weight. >>K >>And babbling on again today:  first, the Inquirer article (which at leasttN >>some people will read) that quotes Terry's article (which otherwise would beL >>read by far fewer people) critiquing (and if you read it carefully not allN >>that negatively) a Gartner report (the only thing that a whole lot of people1 >>will read and many will believe), and now this.o >>> >>'Inflection point' my ass.  They've been listening to Carly. >> >>- bill >> > B > how come everyone I know whos last name begins w/Todd is so rudeA > and obnoxious?  My aunt was a Todd and had the same problem ...i    3 I think you are ignoring a much more obvious reasono; you are the common denominator not the Todd surname. :):):)l   RegardsN   Andrew Harrisonm      ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:09:02 +0100iT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 is not the VAX& Message-ID: <3CBBF83E.5020206@sun.com>   Don Chiasson wrote:g  . >>Christopher C. Stacy wrote re LISP machines: >> > [snip....] > 4 >>>(By the way, there were five completely different; >>>architectures, implemented in a variety of processes forw< >>>dozens of different machines over the years, by the way.) >>>a >>>h > [snip...]  > I > I find this amazing. How could a company put the resources into so manyeJ > architectures.  The method of implementation is a detail and will changeH > with the technology, but IBM is still using, with extensions, the sameJ > 360 architecture from about 38 years ago. Similarly, your 2.4GHz PentiumF > 4 starts up as an 8086 (or something of that ilk). DEC had the PDP-6: > (and follow ons) for about 20 years. Symbolics must have> > spent - wasted - a huge amount of energy in chasing multiple > architectures. >     $ They didn't have 5 at the same time.  5 They started off using gate arrays and then developedl the Ivory processor.   RegardsL Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 13:02:48 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-% Subject: Re: Initial Sequence Numbersu, Message-ID: <a9h7do$2ko8$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <e922ba8b.0204151914.382e126e@posting.google.com>,.,  codygould@yahoo.com.au (Cody Gould) writes: |> Care All, |> a< |> Is there any predictability to, or documentation of, how < |> OpenVMS calculates the ISN for TCP/IP packets?  Back when< |> this was a problem for other OS, was OpenVMS historically |> vulnerable?   Is this what your looking for??i  
 From NMAP:  . On an Alpha running 7.3 and Compaq's IP stack:  <    TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=random positive increments      Difficulty=358 (Medium)  " On a VAX running 7.1 and Multinet:  .    TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=truly random$      Difficulty=9999999 (Good luck!)   bill   -- .J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:42:30 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> N Subject: It isn't just Alpha/OpenVMS users complaining about lack of marketingE Message-ID: <W_Uu8.1024$iw1.816@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  % IBM midrange users face new IT issuese Jaikumar Vijayan Computerworld (US)  G More than 3,000 users of IBM Corp.'s venerable iSeries midrange systemssG formerly known as the AS/400 will gather in Nashville this week for thea biannual Common trade show.   L Key areas of interest are likely to be server consolidation, Web-enabling ofK existing applications, support for Unix on iSeries servers and the upcominga8 release of a new version of the OS/400 operating system.  F "Judging from the number of sessions on [logical partitioning], serverF consolidation is clearly one of the main interest areas," said CharlieE Massoglia, president of Common, the Chicago-based user group of IBM'sdH midrange systems. "The immediate payback in terms of savings on cost and6 management" is driving much of that interest, he said.  B IBM's perceived lack of marketing of the iSeries, which has been aJ long-standing complaint among some users, is sure to be high on the agendaL as well, said Al Barsa, president of Barsa Consulting Group LLC, a Purchase,# N.Y.-based iSeries consulting firm.w  K "For iSeries users, there are just two types of computers in the world: the L iSeries and inferior computers," Barsa said. "Most people are upset that IBM/ isn't doing enough to tell the world about it."o  I At the same time, user satisfaction with IBM's iSeries technology remainsyI high, he said. "They are bringing in all of the competitive features that H other platforms are introducing and, in many cases, are actually leading& [more popular] platforms," Barsa said.  F This is especially true of the support for logical partitions that IBME introduced on the iSeries about two years ago, Massoglia said. As thepI technology has matured, it has helped users cut costs by hosting multiple & workloads on a single server, he said.  H The iSeries support for multiple operating environments including Linux,D Windows and soon AIX Unix in a single partition is also boosting itsL popularity within IBM's installed base and with first-time buyers, Massoglia said.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:53:44 GMTA* From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com> Subject: Re: Itanium Odditiest* Message-ID: <3CBC111A.F47A677E@Compaq.com>  @   He's talking about floating-point addition. It looks like the : designers think that most floating-point applications need> multiply-add sequences more often than isolated addition, and  optimized for that case. 2     Neil Rieck wrote:5 >  > Folks, > G > I just stumbled on this great source of 64-bit technical information:nA > http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s=1005&a=22477,00.asp G > One thing that stood was the fact that Itanium (a.k.a. IA-64; Merced; L > McKinley) has no ADD instruction. According to the above link, in order toK > add, you must use a MAC (Multiply and Accumulate) instruction that adds aeK > value after multiplying by one. Maybe one of the people currently portingn< > OpenVMS (or Tru64) to IA-64 would like to comment on this. >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,c > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:13:40 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Itanium Odditiesa) Message-ID: <3CBC1574.26B50A6E@127.0.0.1>s   Neil Rieck wrote:-G > I just stumbled on this great source of 64-bit technical information:HA > http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s=1005&a=22477,00.aspoG > One thing that stood was the fact that Itanium (a.k.a. IA-64; Merced;3L > McKinley) has no ADD instruction. According to the above link, in order toK > add, you must use a MAC (Multiply and Accumulate) instruction that adds a K > value after multiplying by one. Maybe one of the people currently portinga< > OpenVMS (or Tru64) to IA-64 would like to comment on this.  G I have a few interesting observations from last weeks' London Technical>= Update where a few home truths about the Alpha were revealed.b  E I suspect I was not the only one in the audience amazed to learn thatn@ some very basic commonly used instructions need a fair amount ofG firmware jiggery pokery to execute, yet on an Itanium is implemented asi a single instruction!o  E Any suggestion that the Alpha processor was somehow optimized for thedD VMS operating system is a total and utter complete myth. I asked theE obvious question, but in the swings and roundabouts world there is notF great advantage of one chip over another as far as VMS and performance
 is concerned.    -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:45:34 +0100'% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s Subject: Re: Itanium Odditiese8 Message-ID: <4gdobu47rni9lok2r61l56ahknbung8ht9@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:13:40 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  H >I have a few interesting observations from last weeks' London Technical> >Update where a few home truths about the Alpha were revealed.  F Unfortunately some nasty virus prevented me from attending. How Compaq/ managed to arrange this is, as yet, unknown :-)    > F >I suspect I was not the only one in the audience amazed to learn thatA >some very basic commonly used instructions need a fair amount ofyH >firmware jiggery pokery to execute, yet on an Itanium is implemented as >a single instruction!  F Shock horror. You mean Compaq have been selling us a pig in a poke allF these years. I want my money back. Thank goodness Itanium is coming to the rescue!t   >sF >Any suggestion that the Alpha processor was somehow optimized for theE >VMS operating system is a total and utter complete myth. I asked thecF >obvious question, but in the swings and roundabouts world there is noG >great advantage of one chip over another as far as VMS and performancev >is concerned.  C Hmm,  I'd have thought the fact that Alphas are considerably fasteriB than current Itaniums would effect VMS performance, Silly me. I'veB never had any doubt VMS engineering can make VMS run on my toasterA given sufficient RAM. That's never been my problem. My problem iseE simply that Compaq assured me in writing there was "no question aboutnD Compaq's commitment to Alpha" just three weeks before announcing theE phase out after EV7. Exactly the same way they assured me about Alpha A NT. Then the same way they assured me about Tru64 being ported to F Itanium. And now exactly the same way I am assured about the future of@ VMS on Itanium.  Nothing, absolutely nothing. Repeat nothing canF really assure me now other than future actions of Compaq/HP. It really is that simple.   F Wish 'd been there though. isn't there a brewery piss-up^h^h^h^h^h^h^h trip coming up soon?   -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:56:49 +0000 (UTC)e From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Itanium OdditiesE+ Message-ID: <a9hhk1$cam$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>t  W In article <3CBC111A.F47A677E@Compaq.com>, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com> writes: A >  He's talking about floating-point addition. It looks like the  ; >designers think that most floating-point applications need ? >multiply-add sequences more often than isolated addition, and : >optimized for that case.  >i  " What seems odder is the statement    "0E Stranger still, Itanium has no integer  multiply function at all. AnyrO multiplication, whether it's integer or floating-point, has to happen in the FPpL MAC unit. Unfortunately, that means transferring a pair of integers from theL general-purpose registers to the floating-point registers, then transferringE the result back again. Fortunately, IA-64 includes a few instructionso; specifically for this eventuality. What were they thinking?    "b  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >  >Neil Rieck wrote: >>  	 >> Folks,e >> gH >> I just stumbled on this great source of 64-bit technical information:B >> http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s=1005&a=22477,00.aspH >> One thing that stood was the fact that Itanium (a.k.a. IA-64; Merced;M >> McKinley) has no ADD instruction. According to the above link, in order toeL >> add, you must use a MAC (Multiply and Accumulate) instruction that adds aL >> value after multiplying by one. Maybe one of the people currently porting= >> OpenVMS (or Tru64) to IA-64 would like to comment on this.  >>  
 >> Neil Riecks  >> Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >> Ontario, Canada.i$ >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 05:33 CDTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles - Message-ID: <16APR200205335810@gerg.tamu.edu>m  $ hack@watson.ibm.com (hack) writes..., }In article <a9eri8$qjg4@news.kvaerner.com>,5 }Tarjei T. Jensen <tarjei.jensen@kvaerner.com> wrote:t }>"hack" wroteF }>>> ...  I.o.w., the "Print Screen" key should work!  That too shouldJ }>> be provided independently of the application -- and might be augmentedG }>> by a "print view" function, also below the application itself, in aeN }>> window manager perhaps.  Again, in principle unrelated to Unix vs Windows. }>L }>This is confusing. Windows, OS/2 and the Macintosh have for all intents an+ }>purposes what you describe. Unix has not.r } M }Really?  I'd love to find out.  Nothing happens when I hit "Print Screen" ontK }my NT 4 system.  I agree that I haven't found this function in AIX either.c } N }In the mid-80s, when I was working on our experimental OS on the 37T (a S/370M }with a bit-mapped display, mouse etc.) I did provide the function to captureaK }a snapshot of the screen to an image file, which could then be printed (ory }redisplayed, for that matter).a }  }Michel.  @ That is, more or less, what the Print Screen key does under NT4.  E It puts a bitmap of the diplay into the paste buffer. You can fire up/E an image editor, like Paint (which comes with NT), and select "Paste" B on the "Edit" menu. This gives you a copy of the screen you can do, whatever you want with, like maybe print it.  J If you use Alt + Print Screen it puts a bitmap of just the currenly active window into the paste buffer.a  H This is not difficult. It does exactly what you want it to do. It's evenI mentioned in the help in a couple of places (probably the easiest to findy. is to look up PRINT SCREEN in the help index).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:58:04 GMTh/ From: "Timothy A. Seufert" <tas@mindspring.com>e Subject: Re: Itanium troublesu6 Message-ID: <tas-F69871.04580416042002@news.attbi.com>  @ In article <3cb984f1$0$3934$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,!  jfc@mit.edu (John F Carr) wrote:U  8 > In article <tas-81F60C.00074714042002@news.attbi.com>,0 > Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:C > >In article <NKus8.66823$w7.5656854@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,r/ > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > >wI > >> Not sure what you're saying above.  Though both may be very slightly-O > >> little-endian-preferring internally, Alpha and Itanic (and for that matterwE > >> POWER4 and I think SPARC and maybe MIPS) will run either-endian.. > >eK > >Read the relevant sections of the PowerPC architecture manuals sometime 0J > >and come back and tell me that PPC really runs either-endian.  :)  (It C > >will shock and horrify you if you have even an ounce of sanity.)4 > ? > The only difference I remember is that you get more alignments? > interrupts when dealing with little-endian data in big-endian @ > mode.  Was there something funny about kernel mode on a little > endian system?  I Yes, because PPC LE mode is not really little endian.  Multibyte data is ,H still stored in memory in big-endian order.  However, operand addresses D are "munged" such that software which attempts to unpack and repack G multibyte data using smaller accesses gets the results it would expect a! were the CPU a true LE processor.t  G If you're curious and don't have the manuals handy and hadn't heard of  G this before, the munging process is as follows (PPC labels address and  G data bus bits with bit 0 being most significant, so 31 is the LSB in a e 32-bit address):  / For 1-byte data, invert address bits 29, 30, 31 + For 2-byte data, invert address bits 29, 301& For 4-byte data, invert address bit 29  For 8-byte data, invert nothing.  I Work through storing a 4-byte value and reading it back a byte at a time   and you'll see how it works.  G There are complications for misaligned accesses, of course.  And extra dD ugliness introduced with the G4, which had to retrofit 16-byte data I accesses for AltiVec onto the 8-byte munging scheme.  (As I recall, they .E just punted and store the two 8-byte halves of an AltiVec word in BE g4 order, or perhaps in real LE order, I forget which.)  @ This is all fine for user mode code, but has rather interesting I consequences for device drivers.  Not only are accesses to memory-mapped aF registers "interesting", DMA is positively diabolical.  The only sane H way to deal with LE PPC is to design a bridge which knows how to unwind I the crazy things the processor does so that devices and the CPU can talk e with some degree of normalcy.u  H Albert Cahalan once had me convinced that all that was necessary was to E swap the eight byte lanes on the system bus before they even hit the  F bridge, but I'm no longer certain that there aren't corner cases with G misaligned accesses that break that approach, especially after Skipper e Smith's posting:  ) <slrnabi5k5.1912.skipper@web1.calweb.com>d  H (Besides, if it was that simple, the PPC LE mode should have included a H MUX in the processor's bus interface to select between straight-through  and byte lane swapping.)    ' > Solaris ran little-endian on the PPC.a  C Either it was designed for PPC motherboards which had the relevant lD hardware support, or there was some significant ugliness exposed to  device driver authors.  E (Kind of odd that they'd choose LE -- isn't Solaris on SPARC BE?  Is . SPARC even bi-endian?)   --     Tims   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 10:30:23 -0400# From: Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net>e Subject: Re: Itanium troubles ( Message-ID: <86k7r7d8cg.fsf@mihalis.net>  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  I > Good point.  "Redundant" data paths are not redundant if they are close G > together.  That's well known, but not easy (or cheap) to accomplish. nH > Especially in lower Manhattan, there proved to be choke points where a< > large fraction of the data cables were too close together.  > some parts of brooklyn-based ODCs relied on these choke points too.   > L > However Brooklyn and Jersey City are popular backup sites, and they appearL > to have independent (from Manhattan) communications paths, at least if you > look hard enough..  B oh yes, and I'm sure those people with this responsibility are now looking a lot harder :)n   -- r Chris Morgan  &    "Not so bad offer to discuss about"  ( 		- Best recent email spam subject line    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 07:57:37 -07000 From: skipper@no-spam.calweb.com (Skipper Smith) Subject: Re: Itanium troublese5 Message-ID: <slrnaboev2.2bfh.skipper@web1.calweb.com>d  . Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:  I Thanks for following up on this.  I had deleted this entire message chainS* by accident and forgot about it until now.  A >In article <3cb984f1$0$3934$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>, " > jfc@mit.edu (John F Carr) wrote: >m9 >> In article <tas-81F60C.00074714042002@news.attbi.com>, 1 >> Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:nD >> >In article <NKus8.66823$w7.5656854@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,0 >> > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: >> >J >> >> Not sure what you're saying above.  Though both may be very slightlyP >> >> little-endian-preferring internally, Alpha and Itanic (and for that matterF >> >> POWER4 and I think SPARC and maybe MIPS) will run either-endian. >> >L >> >Read the relevant sections of the PowerPC architecture manuals sometime K >> >and come back and tell me that PPC really runs either-endian.  :)  (It <D >> >will shock and horrify you if you have even an ounce of sanity.) >> o@ >> The only difference I remember is that you get more alignment@ >> interrupts when dealing with little-endian data in big-endianA >> mode.  Was there something funny about kernel mode on a littlef >> endian system?b >iJ >Yes, because PPC LE mode is not really little endian.  Multibyte data is I >still stored in memory in big-endian order.  However, operand addresses sE >are "munged" such that software which attempts to unpack and repack iH >multibyte data using smaller accesses gets the results it would expect " >were the CPU a true LE processor.  I That is right.  And the first time I ever encountered the term "munge" on > a processor- a word that doesn't seem like it should go with aB predictable, polite cpu :-). Kind of like that old cartoon about aJ physicist writing up a HUGE proof and somewhere in the middle it says "and then a miracle occurs..."t  H >If you're curious and don't have the manuals handy and hadn't heard of H >this before, the munging process is as follows (PPC labels address and H >data bus bits with bit 0 being most significant, so 31 is the LSB in a  >32-bit address):n >r0 >For 1-byte data, invert address bits 29, 30, 31, >For 2-byte data, invert address bits 29, 30' >For 4-byte data, invert address bit 29 ! >For 8-byte data, invert nothing.B >aJ >Work through storing a 4-byte value and reading it back a byte at a time  >and you'll see how it works.e >sH >There are complications for misaligned accesses, of course.  And extra E >ugliness introduced with the G4, which had to retrofit 16-byte data mJ >accesses for AltiVec onto the 8-byte munging scheme.  (As I recall, they F >just punted and store the two 8-byte halves of an AltiVec word in BE 5 >order, or perhaps in real LE order, I forget which.)u >wA >This is all fine for user mode code, but has rather interesting sJ >consequences for device drivers.  Not only are accesses to memory-mapped G >registers "interesting", DMA is positively diabolical.  The only sane dI >way to deal with LE PPC is to design a bridge which knows how to unwind gJ >the crazy things the processor does so that devices and the CPU can talk  >with some degree of normalcy. >-I >Albert Cahalan once had me convinced that all that was necessary was to sF >swap the eight byte lanes on the system bus before they even hit the G >bridge, but I'm no longer certain that there aren't corner cases with  H >misaligned accesses that break that approach, especially after Skipper  >Smith's posting:s  G Fortunately, the guys who worked on this originally are a lot better at2J playing 3-D chess then the average bear.  No, just swapping the eight byteI lanes most certainly does NOT work (especially when you take into accountcF there are devices that have 4 byte lanes and the potential for 16 byteE lanes, with the ability to switch between 8 and 4, for example).  And F misalignment WILL find the corner cases.  But for performance reasons,? taking exceptions for most of the alignment problems was deemedt
 unacceptable.   * ><slrnabi5k5.1912.skipper@web1.calweb.com> >nI >(Besides, if it was that simple, the PPC LE mode should have included a  I >MUX in the processor's bus interface to select between straight-through . >and byte lane swapping.)-  G If it could have been done BEFORE the cache (at the load/store unit andwH the instruction fetcher), it WOULD have worked.  But in 1992, that wouldI have added a clock to each of those fetch paths for the mux, and that wasi deemed unacceptable.   >c( >> Solaris ran little-endian on the PPC. >hD >Either it was designed for PPC motherboards which had the relevant E >hardware support, or there was some significant ugliness exposed to i >device driver authors.t  G I don't recall Solaris running in LE mode.  Since it never shipped, theaG point is somewhat moot.  It was written for PReP, which had the support F necessary, though (at that time, LE mode on the 603 and 604 punted forJ misaligned accesses, though, which made for pretty horrible performance onI NT code  whenever any legacy pre-NT code executed).  I don't think it was  ever ported to CHRP.  F >(Kind of odd that they'd choose LE -- isn't Solaris on SPARC BE?  Is  >SPARC even bi-endian?)u  ( Argh, you got me there.  I can't recall.   -- rB Skipper Smith                         Helpful Knowledge ConsultingB Worldwide         Microprocessor       Architecture       TrainingB PowerPC, ColdFire, 68K, CPU32                Hardware and Software  B /* Remove no-spam. from the reply address to send mail directly */   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 02:32:46 -07000 From: richardmoore64@hotmail.com (Richard Moore) Subject: java Runtime.exec= Message-ID: <fb356e3e.0204160132.47447629@posting.google.com>-   Hello,  F I'm having some problems using Runtime.exec on VMS. My program returns7 the following error when I try to launch a DCL script :l  7 java.io.IOException: Child creation error: error 100052:    Any ideas what this error means?  ( My program contains the following code :  " Runtime rt = Runtime.getRuntime();D Process proc = rt.exec("@DSA402:[000000.daver.dev.java]SCRIPT.COM");   Any help would be appreciated.   Richard.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:36:53 +0100w% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o Subject: Re: java Runtime.exec8 Message-ID: <fl6obucd27e38lkp8dt5vm6j7thbmr1u72@4ax.com>  B On 16 Apr 2002 02:32:46 -0700, richardmoore64@hotmail.com (Richard
 Moore) wrote:l   >Hello,  >sG >I'm having some problems using Runtime.exec on VMS. My program returnsa8 >the following error when I try to launch a DCL script : >g8 >java.io.IOException: Child creation error: error 100052 >t! >Any ideas what this error means?m  $ Its not just a VMS error code is it?
 In which casel
 $ exit 100052l+ %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax errort    ) >My program contains the following code :o >g# >Runtime rt = Runtime.getRuntime();eE >Process proc = rt.exec("@DSA402:[000000.daver.dev.java]SCRIPT.COM");g >t >Any help would be appreciated.b >f	 >Richard.n   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 06:23:55 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)tG Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)i5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-e8dTf5G0xWHv@localhost>e  F On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:15:03 UTC, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  G > > Anyway, we'll have to drive less in the future to save the earth...T > M > Agreed, unless clean fusion energy generation plus a way to transport it ineL > a vehicle appear.  I was an enthusiastic rallyist (all over North America)J > in the '60s and '70s, but would have significant reservations about such > activity today.p >  > - bill  F And there was I sitting wondering if anyone had ever tried to complete) a rally without clutch and starter motor.    I tried and failed....   -- - Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 06:23:56 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)-G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)p5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-CkT70JdJ3EKN@localhost>   E On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:05:30 UTC, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) g wrote:  . > In article <3CB9CAFD.54E1DA60@videotron.ca>,1 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:t > >Nick Maclaren wrote:r   Snip  D > In theory.  In practice, you are faced with something every bit asI > inscrutable and no help system!  A good test of whether a GUI interfaceeE > is badly designed is how much paper you need to use it - needing tonC > read a book on it is very bad, but so is having to copy text ontoe& > paper to type it into another field.  
 Very true.  eM > >The GUI does it in a more aestetically pleasing manner than character cellcL > >menu system. GUI and character cell menus save some time because you justL > >tab/point to the field and type in the value instead of havin to type the > >field name and value. > D > Evidence is that this doesn't save time.  Switching modes of input@ > takes longer than typing 5-10 extra characters.  Automatically9 > copied large chunks of text (e.g. URLs) does save time.   F Doesn't this rather depend on the task at hand? Editing an image with A a CLI will not be as easy as doing it with a WYSIWYG GUI editor. uD Creating a piece of music (audio and/or midi) is not a command line  job.  Q > >But does the user interface actually simplify the job ? No. It is the softwared% > >behind it that simplifies the job.i > 9 > Agreed.  When it does, which is not all that common :-(i  F Ties in to my comment above. In the end it comes down to the best tool for the job.  0 <snip>  P > >Now, you can have some fancy Windows GUI that helps you create VMS usernames.P > >But is that much different in functionality from the ALL-IN-1 way of creating > >a username ?e > E > Yes.  It prevents you taking an accurate record.  So that, when you>D > report a bug, the support people can always say that you must haveE > made a mistake.  This saves developers time because they don't havea > to fix most bugs.a  E The problem here is that even in CLI mode if the o/p has scrolled up lF the screen, your evidence is gone. If you can get it back on your big > scrollable region workstation, you can write it down or maybe E 'print-screen' it. People rarely work in 'SET HOST 0 /LOG=' mode, so hF if a bug occurs you've got to recreate it to report it. That is where D the point/click problem arises - being sure you repeat the sequence  exactly.  	 Anecdote.h  E A colleague has a piece of s/w written with Borland Delphi. It has a hF 'file/open' dialogue that uses the explorer like window.  Lack of careC with point/click led me to accidentally 'delete' another collagues hF sub-directory/folder. Being the considerate type I thought I'd better C fix it. It transpires that the control being used allowed drag and  F drop and I had accidentally done that to my colleagues folder. I found+ it and dragged it back where it should be. m   Moral.  F This paricular part of the user i/f would be less convenient to use ifE the file to be opened was entered in interactive (CLI) mode. I would uF have had to write it down (or have it in another explorer window) thenF enter it in the relevant field. The GUI function used allowed too much4 and was/ is not really the correct tool for the job.   -- c Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 07:48:23 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles) 0 Message-ID: <a9gl07$m28$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  = In article <tWKu8.197$XV5.39813@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,o) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:s >tK >Because when *I* was looking into this was 20 years ago, and I'm not aboutaK >to redo the search that you've clearly never done in the first place.  ThegL >fact remains that research in this area *does* exist, and all you've got toE >offer in return is some unspecified 'measurements' you claim to havesM >performed on what appear to be decidedly atypical user populations (at leastnM >for current computer users; they might have been more typical back then, but M >that's not particularly relevant now that the PC has penetrated the masses).e  C Did you do the measurements yourself?  Are you prepared to say whatc8 they were?  Who did them?  Where to find the references?  > Or, be honest, and admit that my evidence is weak but yours is
 non-existent.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:57:26 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)h@ Message-ID: <GPQu8.60296$K5.5502220@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messagea* news:a9gl07$m28$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...   ..  @ > Or, be honest, and admit that my evidence is weak but yours is > non-existent.s  I No, Nick:  you're just full of shit, as usual.  And sticking to it to thef end (which for me is now).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 08:16:39 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles) 0 Message-ID: <a9gml7$nd4$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  5 In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-CkT70JdJ3EKN@localhost>, . Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote: > N >> >The GUI does it in a more aestetically pleasing manner than character cellM >> >menu system. GUI and character cell menus save some time because you justlM >> >tab/point to the field and type in the value instead of havin to type theg >> >field name and value.  >> dE >> Evidence is that this doesn't save time.  Switching modes of inputtA >> takes longer than typing 5-10 extra characters.  Automaticallyc: >> copied large chunks of text (e.g. URLs) does save time. >iG >Doesn't this rather depend on the task at hand? Editing an image with bB >a CLI will not be as easy as doing it with a WYSIWYG GUI editor. E >Creating a piece of music (audio and/or midi) is not a command line u >job.e  @ Oh, critically.  There is a LOT of evidence that WYSIWYG editors@ are faster for most people - there are some who can produce text< without seeing it, but many more who can't.  And there is no? substitute for a GUI when pictures or graphs are involved.  Buts> often the best GUI is line-mode input and graphical output, as; most people cannot draught down to visual discrimination.  t  A But I was referring to the specific claim.  One test that I triedtC was how long it took to do 'type fred/bill/bert' (type = Unix cat). @ Now, most ordinary computer users will take 4-20 seconds to type. that, though some people are faster or slower.  D An Apple-like GUI needs 4 lookups - the initial root and each index.@ My tests indicates that, on an infinitely fast machine and where> each directory displayed in toto, the GUI was a bit faster, ifA anything.  Something I found (that was known to psychologists, as3@ I discovered later) was that any noticeable glitch in a computer? response caused a disproportionate one in the user's reactions.i  @ The real killer, however, was scrolling.  If the directories did= not display, then the extra three scrolling actions took longe< enough that the GUI was considerably slower.  This seemed to@ apply even if the files were in fact on the initial display, but, the user was not certain that they would be.  A As I have said, my sample was small, but it was convincing enoughiB to make me certain that the GUI dogma of universal improvement for/ such operations was propaganda and not science.   @ Interestingly enough, my evidence was that the users' preference? was often for the GUI, even if they knew that it was slower.  I 3 notice that effect in myself, but can't explain it.r  R >> >But does the user interface actually simplify the job ? No. It is the software& >> >behind it that simplifies the job. >> -: >> Agreed.  When it does, which is not all that common :-( >eG >Ties in to my comment above. In the end it comes down to the best tools
 >for the job.o  B Quite so.  But the other aspect of my comment is the one about theD key is good design - there are circumstances where the difference inB such techniques is important, but generally it comes down to which  system has been better designed.  Q >> >Now, you can have some fancy Windows GUI that helps you create VMS usernames.iQ >> >But is that much different in functionality from the ALL-IN-1 way of creatingr >> >a username ? >> nF >> Yes.  It prevents you taking an accurate record.  So that, when youE >> report a bug, the support people can always say that you must have'F >> made a mistake.  This saves developers time because they don't have >> to fix most bugs. >pF >The problem here is that even in CLI mode if the o/p has scrolled up G >the screen, your evidence is gone. If you can get it back on your big o? >scrollable region workstation, you can write it down or maybe nF >'print-screen' it. People rarely work in 'SET HOST 0 /LOG=' mode, so G >if a bug occurs you've got to recreate it to report it. That is where  E >the point/click problem arises - being sure you repeat the sequence n	 >exactly.t  D Yes, that is so.  It is why my normal mode of working is xterms withE an increased scroll buffer and TERM=dumb (which prevents ex and otherPB damn-fool programs from trashing the scrollback).  And most of theA use of the scrollback is either to cut-and-paste or to answer the   question "What did I REALLY do?"  ? It saddens me that designing architectures for ergonomics is so ? badly neglected in favour of following dogma.  Yes, GUIs have aL: lot of advantages, but they need to be used properly to beB effective.  And proven, simple techniques like reliable scrollback( are inconvenient, and so get deprecated.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:07:06 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles) 8 Message-ID: <5upnbu02d0gjtr4nkqa16a9lgci35g23hs@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:15:03 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:     >8H >True, but that's not something vehicle design can help much with, whileL >avoiding the distraction of having to learn completely new, somewhat subtleL >(how many people do you know who can shift a manual transmission without itJ >being obvious to a passenger who has their eyes closed?), and now largely  F If I drive for fuel economy I can get changes at least as smooth as anB automatic. But normally I don't. Similarly when driving a nice bigC Buick automatic a couple of weeks ago it would change smoothly if I F was relatively gentle with it. Slam the foot to the floor and it would@ get the message and you certainly would feel a jolt as it run up through the gears in "D".v  A I think they should provide a 'placebo' clutch just to prevent meg4 inappropriately hitting the brake with my left foot.    " >useless physical coordination is. >t >>F >> Anyway, we'll have to drive less in the future to save the earth... >mL >Agreed, unless clean fusion energy generation plus a way to transport it inK >a vehicle appear.  I was an enthusiastic rallyist (all over North America)nI >in the '60s and '70s, but would have significant reservations about sucht >activity today. >  >- billp >  >S   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:14:42 +0200r( From: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)k" Message-ID: <248h9a.d24.ln@miriam>   Maynard Handley wrote:  > Having to type into a terminal >    frq -xw gslD > to get the amount of gasoline left in your tank is NOT obvious and3 > will not be remembered without considerable pain.e  C Cars didn't have a fuel meter for quite some time, and to check if sC there's enough oil in your motor, you still use the old way: put a .B clean metal stick into the tank, and check how much oil there is. < It's not obvious, but at least it's a descent visualization.  ? It won't take long and the control panel of your car is just a  ; LCDisplay of a sort-of PC/PDA. You then will have a lot of  D possibilities to check the fuel state, and if the PC/PDA is running ? Embeddix or QNX or something like that, you'll for sure have a  D command to check the status (-x means "extended form", -w "which"). C You probably also have a display part with some XML that tells the w; visualization tool where and how to display the fuel state:s  " <control><title>Fuel State</title>M          <update t="10" unit="seconds" format="relation">frq -rw gsl</update>v           <scale><warn>10%</warn>9                 <fade><level>0%</level><color>red</color>e=                       <level>25%</level><color>orange</color>d=                       <level>50%</level><color>yellow</color>l<                       <level>75%</level><color>green</color>C                       <level>100%</level><color>cyan</color></fade> F                 <opening><direction>right</direction><angle>60</angle>                 </opening>%                 <stripes>20</stripes>p          </scale> )          <geometry>100x100-0-0</geometry> 
 </control>   -- i Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"  http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:33:55 +0100c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)i8 Message-ID: <2u5obuggct35vah60kd3uek962kuumvst0@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:48:50 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:  $ >And what the h--l is "yds"  :-) :-): >I thought it was a loooong time ago "all" switched to the3 >metric system... The French Revolution, wasn't it.:  A If the French do it then you can't expect us to do it was well :)a  E But seriously we seem to have got stuck half way down metrication. WerC buy fuel in litres but measure distance and speed in miles/mile perpE hour. Carpets are usually sold by width in yards and length in metres D (I am not joking but it might be the other way round). Milk comes inE pints and/or half-litres. Weather forecasts give the temp in C unless8B its hot when they translate it to Farenheit - or "old money" as we usually say.  B The US seems to have got stuck as well but probably a few furlongsD behind even the UK. But then the UK would probably never have got as7 far along as it has without the rest of Europe pushing.c  F I seem to recall a German friend having no problem with a pound weight some time ago.  "Ein pfund"?    
 >Jan-Erik. >  >Alan Greig wrote: >> 0F >> Still at least in the US they helpfully put very large signs saying- >> "Wrong Way" 100yds down from the junction.u >>   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:36:48 -0400g( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)r, Message-ID: <3CBC3700.4080209@tsoft-inc.com>   Alan Greig wrote:   F > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:48:50 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> > wrote: >  > % >>And what the h--l is "yds"  :-) :-) ; >>I thought it was a loooong time ago "all" switched to thec4 >>metric system... The French Revolution, wasn't it. >> > C > If the French do it then you can't expect us to do it was well :)r > G > But seriously we seem to have got stuck half way down metrication. WenE > buy fuel in litres but measure distance and speed in miles/mile peruG > hour. Carpets are usually sold by width in yards and length in metres F > (I am not joking but it might be the other way round). Milk comes inG > pints and/or half-litres. Weather forecasts give the temp in C unlesslD > its hot when they translate it to Farenheit - or "old money" as we > usually say. > D > The US seems to have got stuck as well but probably a few furlongsF > behind even the UK. But then the UK would probably never have got as9 > far along as it has without the rest of Europe pushing.A    J Not sure what you're basing that on.  My life is 'metric free'.  Even the P aircraft stuff I do is metric free.  Bolts are still measured in inches, length 3 and diameter.  Distance, weights, temperature, etc.r  I We never got started in any significant way on the 'metric mistake'.  :-)     H > I seem to recall a German friend having no problem with a pound weight > some time ago.  "Ein pfund"? >  >  >  >>Jan-Erik.d >> >>Alan Greig wrote:, >>F >>>Still at least in the US they helpfully put very large signs saying- >>>"Wrong Way" 100yds down from the junction.e >>>e >>>l >  > -- > Alan >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:21:59 GMTt2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>3 Subject: Marvel at the next NYC LUG meeting May 3rde7 Message-ID: <HHUu8.7$Jm.157806@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>a  8 NY Metro Encompass Local User Group Meeting Announcement    2 What:  "Marvel": The New Compaq AlphaServer Series  % When: Friday, May 3, 2002, 12:20-3pm,e  H Where:  Compaq, 8thFloor, 2 Penn Plaza, New York City.  (2 Penn Plaza is4 directly above Penn Station, 7th Avenue at 32nd st.)    H At this meeting, we will have a Compaq engineer talk on the latest AlphaG processor family, in addition to an update on the Compaq/HP merger, and?J updates on upcoming LUG activities. Again, we are grateful to be hosted by, Compaq, who will provide light refreshments.  = 12:30 - 1:00pm - Check-in and old-fashioned DECUS networking.o  I 1:00 p.m - Welcome and LUG information  Gary McCready, SIAC/Amex ServicesiH Gary will discuss recent Encompass news and announcements, and plans for" future meetings and LUGactivities.    I 1:10 p.m.- Compaq Introductions and Announcements Our Host, Lynne Hummel,u( High Performance SalesSpecialist, Compaq  J 1:20pm - 2:30pm - The New Compaq AlphaServer Series Mark O. Miller, CompaqG Engineering Program Manager The next generation of AlphaServers will besL based onthe Alpha EV7 processor that extends the current EV6 product family.H EV7 is a single-chip CPU incorporating cache, memory controller, and theJ inter-processor switch fabric. The New AlphaServer Series will implement a@ scalable and expandable architecture, from low-cost, 2-processorI configurations to high-performance 64-way systems. This talk will give anl overview of the series.g  J And after the meeting is over feel free to stay for more networking and to- discuss what we should have at future events.a  H Limited seating available. Register via email to Barbara.Hunt@compaq.com    L You will be met by a Compaq employee at the security desk at the entrance toK the building. Should you arrive late, please call the Compaq reception deskiJ at 212-856-2000 for an escort.For further information on the group you may= contact Gary McCready at NYMLUG@McCready.com or 212-383-4487.i    E Apologies are in order if you have received multiple versions of this/D message. Feel free to forward this message to others who may have anK interest inattending - you do not have to be an Encompass member to attend. I If you did not receive an "original" version of this message, please joinu9 our mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/r     >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:57:55 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>m7 Subject: Re: Marvel at the next NYC LUG meeting May 3rdnD Message-ID: <ndVu8.222$0S1.122@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Sue,  K Any chance event like these could be accompanied by a streaming audio/videonK broadcast along with any Powerpoint persentations, for those of us who have ( an interest but cannot attend in person?  H It should be pretty easy to manage for events that originate from Compaq: offices where there's lots of network bandwidth available.  J Having this presentation available with a streaming audio/video option mayL even give those of us who are still sticking our necks on the chopping blockL in promoting Alpha and OpenVMS the opportunity to drag an executive or threeL to at least a portion of the presentation. This would be a damn sight betterL than not having them attend in any way, shape, or form, if they had to spend a day travelling to/from NYC.   E If you went the whole route, you'd even have a call-in operator (800),J queueing questions from remote attendees, or a dedicated e-mail address toL send questions to that would be checked 'real-time' and responded to as partG of the conference. I've participated in many conferences like these and  found them quite effective.:          = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message 1 news:HHUu8.7$Jm.157806@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...r: > NY Metro Encompass Local User Group Meeting Announcement >e >t4 > What:  "Marvel": The New Compaq AlphaServer Series >5' > When: Friday, May 3, 2002, 12:20-3pm,n >nJ > Where:  Compaq, 8thFloor, 2 Penn Plaza, New York City.  (2 Penn Plaza is6 > directly above Penn Station, 7th Avenue at 32nd st.) >s >aJ > At this meeting, we will have a Compaq engineer talk on the latest AlphaI > processor family, in addition to an update on the Compaq/HP merger, and L > updates on upcoming LUG activities. Again, we are grateful to be hosted by. > Compaq, who will provide light refreshments. > ? > 12:30 - 1:00pm - Check-in and old-fashioned DECUS networking.a >lK > 1:00 p.m - Welcome and LUG information  Gary McCready, SIAC/Amex ServicesoJ > Gary will discuss recent Encompass news and announcements, and plans for$ > future meetings and LUGactivities. >a >rK > 1:10 p.m.- Compaq Introductions and Announcements Our Host, Lynne Hummel, * > High Performance SalesSpecialist, Compaq >eL > 1:20pm - 2:30pm - The New Compaq AlphaServer Series Mark O. Miller, CompaqI > Engineering Program Manager The next generation of AlphaServers will be F > based onthe Alpha EV7 processor that extends the current EV6 product family.pJ > EV7 is a single-chip CPU incorporating cache, memory controller, and theL > inter-processor switch fabric. The New AlphaServer Series will implement aB > scalable and expandable architecture, from low-cost, 2-processorK > configurations to high-performance 64-way systems. This talk will give anT > overview of the series.h >WL > And after the meeting is over feel free to stay for more networking and to/ > discuss what we should have at future events.A >tJ > Limited seating available. Register via email to Barbara.Hunt@compaq.com >f > K > You will be met by a Compaq employee at the security desk at the entranced toH > the building. Should you arrive late, please call the Compaq reception deskL > at 212-856-2000 for an escort.For further information on the group you may? > contact Gary McCready at NYMLUG@McCready.com or 212-383-4487.- >s >nG > Apologies are in order if you have received multiple versions of thiskF > message. Feel free to forward this message to others who may have anE > interest inattending - you do not have to be an Encompass member tol attend.oK > If you did not receive an "original" version of this message, please joinn; > our mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/c >l >l > >i >  >p >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:15:05 +1200e& From: A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> Subject: Mux Server 300iG Message-ID: <BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FFCBCB1D@exchsvr.FSC.COM.FJ>   D Does anyone know the file on VMS that loads settings for muxservers?     asenao   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:06:35 +0200 . From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si> Subject: Re: Mux Server 300e. Message-ID: <6ORu8.264$WO2.9355@news.siol.net>  3 "A Bonaveidogo" <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote in messageeA news:BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FFCBCB1D@exchsvr.FSC.COM.FJ...n > F > Does anyone know the file on VMS that loads settings for muxservers? >a >f > asenay  D MS1601ENG.SYS is binary load file that was nedded for muxserver 300.  D As I recall configuration is saved in NVRAM on the muxserver itself.   best, Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:16:37 -0400t= From: "Sales and Marketing Department" <sales@sevenlands.com> ! Subject: New Product AnnouncementeI Message-ID: <YURYDEVFjxe0ymQ1WE900000702@yurydev.intranet.sevenlands.com>e  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4                Streamline your Company=92s Workflow! =20s1                  Seven Lands Software presents...G =20a(                         SLS MULTIPLICITY  =20F    Workflow Collaboration, Data Collection, Job Management Software=20 =20  =20aH =B7  Extremely simple to Install and Setup:  Average company requires=20-     less than 2 days to be up and running.=20a  E =B7  Streamline Employee Training:  Our Interface Screens are very=20rA     user-friendly and minimize employee-training requirements.=20l  G =B7  Customize your Job Tickets/Work Orders:  You customize your own=20yF     job tickets/work orders as well as data collection/presentation=20
     forms.=20i  C =B7  Non-intrusive Software Package:  Will fit into your current=20 H     workflow processes or can be used to modify/improve your existing=202     workflow to create additional efficiencies.=20  D =B7  Complete Data Collection:  Can be captured to the =93granular = level=94=20sF     your organization requires with full job/organizational costing=20     capabilities.=20  J =B7  Full Accounting Interface:  Track billable (and non-billable) work=20E     as it occurs and automatically feed your invoicing system with=20e     accurate data.=20s  I =B7  Comprehensive Job Tracking/Status:  Know exactly where any job is=20r-     in your company on a real-time basis. =20f  I =B7  Total Job History:  Know and keep complete histories of all jobs.=20u  J =B7  Customize Workflow Calendars:  Customize the =93Working Calendar=94 =  I     for each department, work area or work center within your company.=20eD     Our scheduling tools automatically understand these different=208     calendars in calculating schedules and due dates.=20  F =B7  Business Logic:  Take advantage of pre-established, simple-to-useA     =93if/then=94 business logic capabilities in setting up job =l routings.=20  G =B7  You Control Workflow:  Remotely control work Q=92s according to=20n?     scheduling and routing information on a real-time basis.=20a  = =B7  You Manage Workflow:  Know when projects are late and=20@>     automatically calculate turnaround times and due dates.=20  G =B7  Eliminate Time Cards:  Replace the inefficiencies and inaccuraciesnB     of time cards by feeding processing times directing to your=20     accounting system.=20l  H =B7  Automate and Control Job Routings:  Pre-establish both automatic=20I     and manual workflow routings by job type based on your company=92s=20tG     business logic while maintaining the ability to easily customize=20rB     the routing of a specific job (or project) through a simple=20      graphical user interface.=20  H =B7  Non-restrictive Workflow Deployment:  Unique technology makes it=20G     possible to assign work to a distributed workforce regardless of=20v.     location and still retain full control.=20  B =B7  Enhance Efficiencies and Customer Service:  Transfer these=20C     efficiencies to other departments, remote offices and even your'B     Customers.  All you need is any type of network connection,=20     including the Internet! =20e =20nB We are committed to providing the best, most cost effective and=20F flexible Workflow Collaboration, Data Collection and Job Management=20F Solution possible.  Our system integration technology enables us to=20F link this powerful Management Information System to existing Legacy=20F Systems, Accounting or Materials Management Applications as well as=20E any other applications you may currently have in place and rely on=20k to run your daily business.=20 =20 G Our workflow and system integration technologies have been providing=20gF efficiencies and cost savings to our clients for over 5 years.  The=20C unique nature and flexibility of the technology enables it to be=20 D applicable to any type of business where managing workflow can be=209 critical to the company=92s success and profitability.=20l =20e Some of the Benefits:, =20cH =B7  Shorten your invoice approval processes and invoicing turnaround=20
     times.=20.  ! =B7  Improve billing accuracy.=20l  H =B7  Minimize or eliminate duplication of effort that may be a result=206     of re-keying data between incompatible systems.=20  E =B7  Improve the ability of operators to access the data they need tooH     perform their task(s) most effectively =96 without requiring them=20/     to keep their own =93islands of data=94.=20l  C =B7  With easy access to complete and full job histories you can=20wH     optimize processes and take advantage of your staff=92s talent by=20C     sending work back to those who previously worked on the job.=20e  H =B7  Improve the value-added time spent on tasks by your operators by=20@     spending less time tracking, finding, hunting, or opening=20G     specific jobs/projects only to find out that pieces are missing.=20<  F =B7  Clients as a result of being able to automate their processes,=20D     routings and tasks have realized Savings of 15-20% or more in=20     specific departments.=20 =20i% For more information, please contact:   	 Bob Goetzp Chief Marketing Officers SEVEN LANDS SOFTWARE Phone:  502-261-1200  ext. 637 FAX:     502-261-1201m email:   BobG@sevenlands.com www.sevenlands.com  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------J Email and contact information was obtained from public sources, such as=20I Domain Name directories. If you would like to be excluded from our list =e -c  please click on the follow link:> http://www.sevenlands.com/unsMP.asp?em=3Dinfo-vax@mvb.saic.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:01:41 +0100:( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: OS400 in similar non-marketing bind) Message-ID: <3CBC12A5.93EB97A7@127.0.0.1>l   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Rob Young wrote: > P > > More than 3,000 users of IBM's venerable iSeries midrange systems - formerlyM > > known as the AS/400 - will gather in Nashville this week for the biannualp > > Common trade show. > P > There is a big difference between AS400 and VMS. In the case of VMS, it bringsG > Digital/Compaq/HP/whatever technologies and capabilities that are not-N > available on other platforms. It is also scalable from desktop to mainframe. > P > AS400 is a midrange that was designed to replace the system 34/36/38 which hadP > been designed to be different enough from MVS/370 so that if IBM was forced toR > divest of midrange, the buyer woudln't be inheriting any mainframe technologies.  H Good observations, and this is one case where VMS actually deserves it'sA "Open". The AS/400, or "i" series is handicapped unless the other:F technologies also have that blue striped IBM stamp on it. OpenVMS doesB interoperate with other vendors [hardware] much more successfully.   O > While they can complain about limited marketing and internal competition from Q > IBM's linux and AIX efforts, do you hear about fears that IBM might nix AS400 ?s  C Oh spit, this is where I say I've had some ND sessions that I can't B possibly comment on, but I do indeed wonder if the majority of IBMB customers know how fine a knife edge their continued commitment to, support [on certain chosen platforms] is on.   -- g( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 09:46:25 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s0 Subject: Re: OS400 in similar non-marketing bind3 Message-ID: <bzIFK8$$nOZ4@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <3CBBBA02.9791E452@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote: > O > While they can complain about limited marketing and internal competition fromeJ > IBM's linux and AIX efforts, do you hear about fears that IBM might nix 	 > AS400 ?   A 	Yes... and of course you would too if you were really interesteds; 	in anything other than "doom and gloom" for VMS... here isK" 	some "doom and gloom" for AS/400.  C 	I leave it as an exercise to find much more of the same in Google.g  # 	Here.... 30 seconds worth of work:t  / http://www.midrange.com/imho/guest/200004.shtmlt  O The AS400 is doomed. Not because it isn't a worthy platform, and not because ittH can't do Java Stored Procedures (I've been assured now that they will beN supported in or before release 5). No, it's doomed because the middle managersN on both sides have done an incredible job of sabotaging it. Sales, support andL existing clients are all to blame. It is doomed because existing clients areN too slow to adapt, and in the fast paced, high risk world of the Internet, theO lazy, inaccurate statements of IBM sales reps, and corporate politics cannot be- tolerated. ,  O Even if they get these problems solved, it will be too late for many customers,jJ including this one. That box is going back without a moment of regret. TheK AS400 engineers and key decision makers do have my respect, its too bad the O rest of you have no idea what they are trying to do for you. It reminds me of adO movie I once watched: The God's Must Be Crazy. The difference is, something farC> more remarkable than a Coke bottle is sitting in front of you.     	"Doomed I say doomed!"t  
 	"booo hooo!"  				A 	Hey JF, if you ever grow tired of VMS "gloom and doom", try some B 	AS/400 newsgroup(s).  I'm sure you will find like-minded company!   				Rob   N "To be sober means to have a calm, clear head, to judge things after the rule N of right, and not according to mob rule.  Don't be influenced by those who cry4 the loudest, or by those who beat the biggest drum."           		-- C.H. Spurgeon   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:46:54 -0400n( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: OS400 in similar non-marketing bind, Message-ID: <3CBC395E.6080100@tsoft-inc.com>   Nic Clews wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:a >  >>Rob Young wrote: >> >>O >>>More than 3,000 users of IBM's venerable iSeries midrange systems - formerlyaL >>>known as the AS/400 - will gather in Nashville this week for the biannual >>>Common trade show.i >>>oP >>There is a big difference between AS400 and VMS. In the case of VMS, it bringsG >>Digital/Compaq/HP/whatever technologies and capabilities that are not N >>available on other platforms. It is also scalable from desktop to mainframe. >>P >>AS400 is a midrange that was designed to replace the system 34/36/38 which hadP >>been designed to be different enough from MVS/370 so that if IBM was forced toR >>divest of midrange, the buyer woudln't be inheriting any mainframe technologies. >> > J > Good observations, and this is one case where VMS actually deserves it'sC > "Open". The AS/400, or "i" series is handicapped unless the otherdH > technologies also have that blue striped IBM stamp on it. OpenVMS doesD > interoperate with other vendors [hardware] much more successfully. >    > O >>While they can complain about limited marketing and internal competition from Q >>IBM's linux and AIX efforts, do you hear about fears that IBM might nix AS400 ?d >> > E > Oh spit, this is where I say I've had some ND sessions that I can'tiD > possibly comment on, but I do indeed wonder if the majority of IBMD > customers know how fine a knife edge their continued commitment to. > support [on certain chosen platforms] is on.    Q Well, there may be internal discussions, but when was the last time IBM actually aL pulled the rug out from under any users?  They just don't have that type of Q reputation, and isn't reputation a large part of the problem some customers have e with Compaq, and now HP?  L As for the 'happiness' of AS400 users, this isn't unique.  Back in the late O 1970s, users of RSTS/E on PDP-11s were sure that they had the best environment fM around.  Why was this?  Well, it was a rather rigid environment, with little gM flexibility, and some good choices were made in the design such that limited  H options were all rather useful.  That's because unlike some groups, the M developers listened to the users/customers, and provided what was requested. eJ The AS400 users probably have the same type of environment and developers.  P When a user actually sees the contrast between such a limited type system and a O really versatile system, most never look back.  Getting them to take that look a can be difficult.g   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 11:48:55 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e1 Subject: Re: OT Best Practises in the IT Industryp3 Message-ID: <2ozG1J7wLbIZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>q  ^ In article <3cbb7349.2233076774@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) writes:  * > Oooopps ... that should've read Maximum. > Other stuff was  > Minimum = 1 daye  > Password History = 5 passwords >   E    Yep.  "Best practive" alright.  Just tell the user who changed his0@    password and thinks it might have been sniffed that same day.  D    You have to reallize a lot of password history systems don't have8    a good idea of what to do when the history overflows.  G    And few security experts know what they're talkiong about, only whata    little they've seen.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:47:45 +0200t- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>t* Subject: PCSI container for bootable disk?' Message-ID: <3CBBC910.81DE50ED@Free.fr>   H Did someone try to successfully build a PCSI kit of a bootable VMS disk?   Thanks,y   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:41:23 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: Pinout on Mouse/KB cable 8 Message-ID: <nKWu8.11$5w.436295@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEPJELAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:r? :VAX's and some Alphas use a cable attached to the chassis with > :a D 15 Female connector, at the other end is a small box that@ :has a circular 7 pin connecotr fot the mouse and a 4pin Modular@ :style connector for the keyboard.  The designation of the cable :is 17-02640-01r  "   Also known as the BC13-M series.  # :Couldn't find the pinout, anybody?2  I   Um, ten minutes with a volt-ohm meter and you'd have it yourself... :-)l  D :This is the final piece of the puzzle to get the info needed to useA :a KVM switch for these systems.  You can't mix this with PC's as E :Fred has pointed out,  but I think it may be useful for more people e	 :than me.   E   The cable is (usually) less interesting than the controller and theeE   signaling involved -- in this case, the signaling means the widgetsaF   are somewhat less interesting for users of PS/2 or USB KVM switches.  G   Details of the older mouse and keyboard protocols are referenced via CD   a link in the OpenVMS FAQ -- there's a a manual out, with detailedD   descriptions.  AFAIK, there are a couple of postings on this topicD   in the archives -- the details in the manual involve more pages of3   typing than I'm really inclined to keypunch here.e    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:17:57 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>V9 Subject: Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!-D Message-ID: <VDUu8.951$iw1.316@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message:7 news:d7791aa1.0204151638.7f90af6b@posting.google.com...o >e& > but my letter is signed by Carly ...   Which Carly?G Carly who has no authority to make any representations about any Compaq 
 products yet? E Carly who will be bounced out of HP so fast if a Delaware court rulesn against HP?NB Carly who allegedly can't talk about such things due to SEC rules?4 Carly who has no credibility with just about anyone?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:20:47 -04001* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>& Subject: RE: Printserver 32 Error Code- Message-ID: <0033000060300658000002L082*@MHS>s   =0AThanks, Paul-  ; Once we knew where to start looking we found enlightenment.-  9 It turns out that the little hingelike part that rises to-0 lift the paper that's in the tray wasn't rising.  ; What's even more interesting, if we forced it to "fake" theG rise, the boot continues.   8 It appears that after that point the PrintServer doesn't6 check that particular condition so as long as we don't  use that upper tray all is well.  3 And we only use the LCIT anyway, so we're fine now.s   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:56 PMeB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& Subject: RE: Printserver 32 Error Code    
 In articleD <032D86684229CC4AB84588A0BE50FC4002FBBC@rlghncst625.usps.gov>, Webb,4 William W Raleigh, NC <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote:  1 > We have a venerable Printserver 32 no longer ona) > support and long bereft of documentage.0 > 4 > Someone in their infinite wisdom power cycled said7 > Printserver on Friday and now we're getting the errorr > message 0F10.0080. > 9 > If there's any significance to this beyond "I can't geto7 > a load from my host" (my guess) can anyone enlighten?t  E It's not a booting problem, but a hardware problem, probably with thea upper paper tray.o   Paul   --  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Compaq Computer Corporation=   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 12:53:13 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) G Subject: Re: Relative invulnerability of VMS to buffer-overflow attacksf, Message-ID: <a9h6rp$2ko8$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0204120857.7c14dad4@posting.google.com>,h+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:s |> m2 |> just go check out the cert advisories Andy ...   H Well, if that's your guide, then you should be running PRIMOS, RSX, RT11H or RSTS/E.  A search of CERT shows no listed vulnerbilities so these are, obviously the most secure OSes in existence,   bill   -- uJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:26:12 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: Rotted Link in OpenVMS FAQ 8 Message-ID: <EgYu8.15$yB.686128@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  g In article <91EEAE34Ewarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes:yK :I bumped into a rotted link in the OpenVMS FAQ, Mail9, and wanted to pass e
 :it along: :oL :MPACK/MUNPACK. To send a MIME mail, construct ... Examples of both methods > :are in: http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/mmail.com   I   You'll also want to let the FAQ maintainer know directly when you find rI   these -- see the information at the front of the FAQ for details on how H   to make notifications.  (Contrary to rumours, the FAQ maintainer does H   NOT read every posting.)  That said, I have already queued the seqaxp J   changes, based on earlier discussions. As was mentioned elsewhere, URLs I   tend to be exceedingly short-lived -- these links can rot very quickly.v    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 07:59:37 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>s# Subject: Shell Accounts Page Updates6 Message-ID: <20020416075937.27424.qmail@gacracker.org>  E I've updated my shell accounts page to try and cut down on the stupid G applications, and make it a little more clear what I hope to have userst doing with the system.  ) http://vmsbox.cjb.net/shell-accounts.html   K I'm still getting applications from people with hotmail accounts and peoplegJ who "wanna learn unix", can anybody see where I'm going wrong? Or, is thisI just indicative of a generation that can't be bothered to read/understandf what is in front of them?o     Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:22:29 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>' Subject: RE: Shell Accounts Page Updates- Message-ID: <0033000060301010000002L002*@MHS>b  3 =0AYou are discovering that "population density" isk1 a phrase that has a second, less obvious meaning.t   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt% Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 4:27 AMrB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET/ Cc: mail2news@freedom.gmsociety.org at INTERNETe# Subject: Shell Accounts Page Update     E I've updated my shell accounts page to try and cut down on the stupidiH applications, and make it a little more clear what I hope to have users=   doing with the system.  ) http://vmsbox.cjb.net/shell-accounts.html5  H I'm still getting applications from people with hotmail accounts and pe= opleH who "wanna learn unix", can anybody see where I'm going wrong? Or, is t= hisoH just indicative of a generation that can't be bothered to read/understa= nd what is in front of them?c     Doc. --6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.H ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb= net=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:32:40 GMTs, From: blarsen@nonews.net (Bjrn Hell Larsen)4 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release. Message-ID: <87g01w2lwr.fsf@limper.nonews.net>  , Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> writes:  E > SIMH V2.9-5 was posted last night to http://simh.trailing-edge.com. H > It includes the first official release of the VAX.  The simulator can: > 4 > 1) restore the starter system from the hobbyist CDD > 2) run a full system installation using the starter system and the
 > hobbyist CDi > 3) autogen# > 4) reboot to the autogen'd system 2 > 5) runs some simple commands, including shutdown  C Way cool. Can anybody give a pointer for obtaining the hobbyist CD?w     Bjrn  -- d* DoD#2537 / Senior MC - 1992 TDM850 (Knurr)   Live to Flame - Flame to Livei   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 01:53:37 -0700' From: spedraja@ono.com (Sergio Pedraja)s4 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release= Message-ID: <c2551c25.0204160053.5d3a2149@posting.google.com>o  E > SIMH V2.9-5 was posted last night to http://simh.trailing-edge.com.eH > It includes the first official release of the VAX.  The simulator can:  ! What can I say ? Absolute THANKS.n  	 Greetingsl   Sergio   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:20:12 -0000i From: sword7@speakeasy.org4 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release/ Message-ID: <ubo5nstah88885@corp.supernews.com>e  > In alt.sys.pdp10 Bjrn Hell Larsen <blarsen@nonews.net> wrote:E > Way cool. Can anybody give a pointer for obtaining the hobbyist CD?.  H http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist  You have register for DECUS membershipG first before you can get OpenVMS hobbyist CD.   I have DECUS membershipm* since I started to develop TS10 emulator.    -- Tim Stark   -- i, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:01:38 -0400 * From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com>4 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release8 Message-ID: <vebobuofco394gdphpq5g5pba6jpcdfu8q@4ax.com>  B There are clearly more bugs to find.  For example, installation of@ layered products using the default (compressed) system librariesD fails.  Decompressing STARLET.OLB allows DEC C to install correctly.  C The following bug was found post-release.  It does not appear to benF related to the compression problem but should be fixed anyway.  I wantD to accumulate a few more days of feedback before updating the source pool.   ( In vax_cpu.c, locate this code fragment:   case CASEL:a+ 	r = (op0 - op1) & LMASK;		/* sel - base */g/ >>>	CC_CMP_B (r, op2);		/* r:limit, set cc's */p4 	if (((uint32) r) > ((uint32) op2))	/* r > limit? */ 		JUMP (PC + ((op2 + 1) * 2));/ 	else {	temp = Read (PC + (r * 2), L_WORD, RA);. 		BRANCHW (temp);  } 	break;o  - The flagged line should be CC_CMP_L (r, op2);e   /Bob  . On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:51:03 -0400, Bob Supnik  <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> wrote:  D >SIMH V2.9-5 was posted last night to http://simh.trailing-edge.com.G >It includes the first official release of the VAX.  The simulator can:  > 3 >1) restore the starter system from the hobbyist CDfC >2) run a full system installation using the starter system and thet >hobbyist CD >3) autogen"" >4) reboot to the autogen'd system1 >5) runs some simple commands, including shutdown" >o7 >Tim Stark and Kevin Handy found two show-stopper bugs:o >iG >(Tim) Interrupts clear previous mode, rather than set previous mode toc >former current mode.gD >(Kevin) PROBEx uses only bits<1:0> of its argument, rather than the >entire argument.y >oC >Thanks, Kevin and Tim, for tracing these bugs to their root cause.  > F >I am sure there are other bugs, but this seems like a good first step >for wider use.  >0 >/Bob Supnik   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 06:24 CDT-' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)09 Subject: Re: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms!a- Message-ID: <16APR200206241423@gerg.tamu.edu>3  j In article <d7791aa1.0204151136.623cc60b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes...S }mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote in message news:<a8rcsg$v0l$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>...f, }> Bob Ceculski <BOB@instantwhip.com> wrote:r }> : bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0204061322.2b99c1f7@posting.google.com>...6 }> :> remember m.c. hammer and "YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS"?7 }> :> why not hire him to do a vms commercial?  Insteads3 }> :> of his line above, he could sing and dance tor }> :>  }> :> "YOU CAN'T HACK THIS"! }> :> 8 }> :> that would be an awesome commercial!  how about it/ }> :> Sue, or anyone else in Q or HP marketing?o }>  ; }> : he and his dance team would be wearing OpenVMS tshirts ; }> : and you could film it at defcon10, and use some of the 7 }> : defcon10 people in the clip trying to hack vms buta< }> : failing ... if you want help directing the whole thing,7 }> : I would be happy to oblige for free ... I have then, }> : whole thing laid out, and it's awesome! }> e }> MC Hammer? Hello! }>  B }> The guy declares bankruptcy then goes off to become a preacher.M }> I'm sure there's grist for Bill Todd's metaphor mill in there, but I don'tiD }> that that's really the image that you -want- associated with VMS. }> u }> D.  } G }wrong, that is exactly the image you want to draw the young linux/unixi0 }and windoze crowd who think vms is outdated ...  ? You are clearly not one of the "young people". The song you areuB talking about is from 1990. Twelve years ago. It is outdated. Many@ of those "young people" are too young to have much memory of it.A To them it would be "MC who? Oh right - that old guy with the bigaC pants I saw on MTV when I was a kid. I guess that matches VMS - old,= and gone." Not the best image to project in your advertising.v  E Perhaps you should try something that is, say, less than 5 years old.n< Either that or a real classic that still gets a lot of play.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 10:36:55 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)e9 Subject: Re: Sue, a great promotion for "unhackable" vms!e3 Message-ID: <$xncPBRAq1Rj@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <00A0C81F.69235DE2@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:eN > They'd do better working up something with a quirky band like _They Might Be< > Giants_, who'd probably be amused to write a VMS jingle.    < Perhaps we could replace the Anna Ngs in "Anna Ng" with VMS.   VMS and I are getting old, I but we still haven't walked  in the glow ! of each others majestic presence.c  ) Probably too eclectic for most, though...o   > (Actually, to reach)N > CEOs rather than young hackers, they should get Elton John to rewrite -  no,K > not Candle in the Wind again - but "I'm still standing", and make a videovP > showing huge disasters and VMS clusters staying up.  They could point out thatL > John himself was big in the 70s and is still big, like VMS.)  A lot of theL > people on corporate boards listened to him when they were younger and they > still vaguely think he's hip.e  B While were at it, have Elton reprise "Don't Let Sun Go Down On Me"  2 Don't let that Sun go down on me (don't buy a Sun)6 Should have researched myself, because it's VMS I need/ I have just a fragment of a dump that I can seeo6 I'm losing everything because that Sun went down on me   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:15:01 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUsf& Message-ID: <3CBBEB95.9010904@sun.com>   Anamika wrote:  1 > Well, maybe I did not make myself clear enough. G > By "doubling" the throughput, what was also meant, was that, the sameo0 > task would be done in half the amount of time.D > Which in my estimation, cannot be done by just adding another CPU,* > which will benefit only CPU bound tasks. >     < Assuming the web server is providing web pages to the client9 then each page served is broken down into wall clock time0 consumed by:   Network I/Oh CPU3 Disk I/O (reads)  3 My guess and it is only a guess is that if you werei3 to measure the wall clock totals for all three thatl2 Disk and Network would be more than CPU in elapsed1 time though it does depend on what you are doing.m  3 Serving up https for example consumes much more CPU : resource than http (unless you have a crypto accelerator).    9 So it is highly unlikely that your 2and CPU will half ther5 elapsed time. You will also need to improve the speedh4 of the disk subsystem that the web pages are on etc.  1 If it turns out that you are serving up https and 2 you are CPU limited then consider getting a crypto7 card rather than another CPU it may be a more effectives! way of improving your throughput.e   Regards  Andrew Harrison      > -A >  > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0C81D.F3ABBE66@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... > Y >>In article <Xns91F1AB2537EFEanamika@207.181.101.12>, Anamika <anamika@home.com> writes:  >>7 >>>Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@entQQQeract.com> wrote inc' >>>news:a9f548$45h$1@bob.news.rcn.net:   >>>nN >>>There are no bottlenecks as such and that is not the problem. The question N >>>is, if a transaction (like accessing a file mapped via a URL), consists of K >>>tasks that are I/O bound, N/W bound and CPU bound, then adding a second :I >>>CPU to the system in question will not double the throughput. All the iM >>>other parts need to be beefed up as well ie., the N/W part, I/O part etc.,. >>>Is that right ? >>>eI >>If there are no bottlenecks, then _nothing_ will double the throughput. O >>(The _potential_ throughput, sure, but the actual throughput?  By definition,pO >>if there are no bottlenecks, it's already processing everything as fast as itH. >>can, and adding resources is just wasteful.) >>L >>If the idea is that the load will increase in future, then there's still aL >>question of what percentage of utilization each resource is experiencing; Q >>if you're 10% network, 10% i/o, 75% CPU, you'll probably need more CPU to cover>? >>a doubled load; you probably won't need more network or disk.3 >>O >>Also, the particular application load may scale differently than you expect. fN >>How long does it take to translate a URL to a filename?  The server probablyP >>has the mapping rules cached in memory, rather than going out to disk all  theK >>time, so the translation process is all CPU.  If the distribution of URLstO >>doesn't change - I mean, if you have twice as many people who are asking for aR >>the same stuff, rather than doubling the number of _different_ URLs requested - H >>then you could get twice as many requests satisfied from the webserverN >>memory cache rather than requiring disk access at all.  They might be betterQ >>off resolving what seems to be a disk i/o problem by buying more RAM and making:I >>the webserver cache bigger - but not if the files being served are very4
 >>volatile.  t >>Q >>This kind of thing is extremely sensitive to the actual characteristics of your Q >>load, and making decisions based on logic without measurement is likely to be a0 >>waste of time and money. >>	 >>-- Alanw >>Q >>===============================================================================02 >> Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >> Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tO >> Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 Q >>===============================================================================p >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:18:38 +0200r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>R+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUso' Message-ID: <3CBBFA7E.3133E8B6@aaa.com>8  = Andrew, could you point me to someone selling a "crypto card"p= for the box the original postar had. I could be interested ins one of those !  > If you can't, why sudgesting to the original poster to get one	 at all ??h   Jan-Erik Sderholm.   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 3 > If it turns out that you are serving up https andl4 > you are CPU limited then consider getting a crypto9 > card rather than another CPU it may be a more effective.# > way of improving your throughput.  >|   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Apr 2002 06:00 CDTn' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)#+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUs-- Message-ID: <16APR200206002232@gerg.tamu.edu>:  ( winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes...# hemanir@yahoo.com (Anamika) writes:e } 1 }>Well, maybe I did not make myself clear enough.@G }>By "doubling" the throughput, what was also meant, was that, the same90 }>task would be done in half the amount of time.D }>Which in my estimation, cannot be done by just adding another CPU,* }>which will benefit only CPU bound tasks. } N }And it won't even benefit CPU-bound tasks very much, unless most of the clockL }time is consumed by sitting in COM state waiting for CPU.  As other postersN }have remarked, the way to speed up a CPU-bound task is with a faster CPU, not% }with a second CPU of the same speed.o } I }(Although the way you get really dramatic speed improvements on the same P }hardware is typically through application redesign, informed, again,  by having> }some idea of where the system is actually spending its time.) } O }So, yes, you're right, a second CPU isn't going to what they say it's going to-P }do - halve the transaction time.  But neither would just throwing on more disksN }and another network adapter.  In fact, if you have no bottlenecks now, addingG }more of the same kinds of resources isn't going to buy you _anything_.  }-- Alan    This is not necessarily correct.  F It is possible that it could halve the transaction time. It depends on what the transaction is.  @ Anamika's definition of doubling the throughput is not really an@ accurate one anyway. You can also double the throughput by beingB able to process two tasks at the same time. Each one may take justC as long as it did before, but if you can do two simultaneously thenrB you will have double the throughput (and the design of web serversC will usualy allow this either by using multiple threads or multiples processes).   F With the information that has been provided there is no way to know ifF the manager is correct or not. Well, except that a literal doubling isE probably not going to happen since SMP doesn't scale at 100%. If he's H lucky he'll get maybe an additional 95%. If he is very unlucky (or isn'tF nearly as smart as he thinks he is) he'll get less than 0% - the addedI overhead of SMP processing can decrease the performance to slightly below J what it used to be in some situations (although a web server isn't usually$ one of these situations, it can be).   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 07:59:21 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUsg3 Message-ID: <wpHHFd2wL$MO@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  W In article <Xns91F1AB2537EFEanamika@207.181.101.12>, Anamika <anamika@home.com> writes:a6 > Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@entQQQeract.com> wrote in& > news:a9f548$45h$1@bob.news.rcn.net:  > M > There are no bottlenecks as such and that is not the problem. The question iM > is, if a transaction (like accessing a file mapped via a URL), consists of  J > tasks that are I/O bound, N/W bound and CPU bound, then adding a second H > CPU to the system in question will not double the throughput. All the L > other parts need to be beefed up as well ie., the N/W part, I/O part etc., > Is that right ?    Not neccessarily.c  D If you have enough CPU horsepower to service 20 requests per second,B enough I/O bandwidth for 50 requests per second and enough networkF bandwidth for 100 requests per second then you can process 20 requests per second.-  B If you double CPU you can process 40 requests per second.  The I/O@ bandwidth and network bandwidth are irrelevant.  With respect to throughput anyway.   Two gotchas:  A 1.  If you increase your workload without increasing your I/O andc> network bandwidth then you will naturally increase the queuingA latency associated with those activities.  Your response time maya: suffer and there may also be some increased memory demand.  @ 2.  If you double your throughput capacity, you only double your= throughput if you have an adequate workload.  And workload isnC related to response time.  If your response time stinks bad enough,s) folks will stop visiting your web server.d   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 08:08:48 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUs-3 Message-ID: <bZlFdz6ao+MI@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  a In article <5130f039.0204151759.7b0c70d2@posting.google.com>, hemanir@yahoo.com (Anamika) writes:-1 > Well, maybe I did not make myself clear enough.mG > By "doubling" the throughput, what was also meant, was that, the samem0 > task would be done in half the amount of time.  ? That's called "halving response time".  And that is an entirely + different beast from "doubling throughput".-  F Doubling the number of processors could have any effect from improvingG response time by a factor of 10 or more to having no discernable effectu at all.8   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 08:59:24 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUsn3 Message-ID: <PZytkEOjNStT@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  c In article <3CBBFA7E.3133E8B6@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:l? > Andrew, could you point me to someone selling a "crypto card"t? > for the box the original postar had. I could be interested in- > one of those ! > @ > If you can't, why sudgesting to the original poster to get one > at all ??a >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >> n4 >> If it turns out that you are serving up https and5 >> you are CPU limited then consider getting a crypto3: >> card rather than another CPU it may be a more effective$ >> way of improving your throughput.  = I don't know what system is involved, but for any PCI machine>9 crypto cards are made by IBM, nCipher, Compaq and Rainbowa: Technologies (at least).  If the system does not have PCI,= crypto devices that hang on the SCSI bus are made by nCipher.C  8 Writing a driver for the nCipher product would be harder than for the others.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:22:21 +0100.T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUs & Message-ID: <3CBC41AD.9080208@sun.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:C  ? > Andrew, could you point me to someone selling a "crypto card"t? > for the box the original postar had. I could be interested in  > one of those ! > @ > If you can't, why sudgesting to the original poster to get one > at all ??  >     5 Compaq produce their own Crypto card for AlphaServers-   Regardsu Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:03:15 +0200r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>f+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUsr' Message-ID: <3CBC4B43.C3296CE6@aaa.com>f   OK.u1 Found one card (AXL300) for Intel servers runninge Windows or Linux.s6 So, this was no option for the original poster here...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.m  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > 7 > Compaq produce their own Crypto card for AlphaServerst > 	 > Regardss > Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:15:41 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ? 8 Message-ID: <xeXu8.12$4z.583804@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  f In article <howard-60689F.02164612042002@enews.newsguy.com>, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes:- :In article <3CB63A72.BFFB813B@videotron.ca>, 0 : JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: : P :> Since the engineers are going to be going through all of VMS's modules during :> the porting effort, 9  H   That would be an, um, incorrect assumption -- or was it a troll that IH   am now rising to?  Consider, if you will, that the target goal of the G   IA-64 porting effort is source code compatibility.  Given that we --  I   like our OpenVMS customers, the folks that keep us in beer and peanuts 4K   -- wish to avoid unnecessary changes to our source code, well, WHY WOULD AH   WE HAVE TO MODIFY ALL EXISTING MODULES?  A central goal of our design H   and our IA-64 porting efforts is to avoid the need to modify existing J   modules, after all -- if we had to modify all of the source code modulesI   as part of the port, we would have quite clearly failed in our efforts.n  : :> wouldn't it be a great time for them to finally replaceM :> all "openvms" back to "vms"  and do away with that "open" stupidity nobody  :> wants anyways ? :  :Sounds good to me...i  L   Like the previous statement, please think through the implications of JF'sJ   proposal.  Would anyone rather I and other engineers spend time on what H   amounts to a massive cut-and-paste project, or on the port and on new H   features and fixing bugs?   Or would you rather we change the product H   name?  We were roundly "roasted" the last time we changed the product    name, what is different now?  G   There has been a non-trivial effort involved in updating the requireduJ   copyright notices within various modules over the years -- with roughly C   60,000 modules coded in a variety of languages, this is itself a  H   non-trivial effort.  The copyright statement displayed in STARTUP.COM I   during bootstrap, for instance?  It's not really in the source code to  K   the STARTUP.COM module, it is generated and inserted by a version of the aI   DCLDIET tool as part of the processing of the STARTUP.COM source modulerI   into the STARTUP.COM that ships.  We had to update the DCLDIET tool to s+   update the STARTUP.COM copyright display.i  L   Assuming for the sake of argument that the product name chance does occur I   and given the experience of the last product name change and given morejK   of a willingness to again get roasted here in the newsgroups -- certainlyqK   more willingness than I can claim to have, I and other  folks would also TL   spend a non-trivial chunk of time explaining that "OpenVMS is VMS is VMS".L   Again and again and again.  And (bluntly) for what real benefit to Compaq A   and to our OpenVMS customers and to our communications efforts?S  L   Maybe we should implement a SYSGEN parameter, then you can set the productJ   name displayed by the operating system to whatever you want.  :-)  On a M   slightly more serious note, we do actually have customization capabilities  K   logically similar to this within the DECwindows login display, after all.o  K   But to paraphrase, we don't really care what you call it, so long as you i   buy it.  :-)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:29:48 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>b5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?p8 Message-ID: <dqgobuc7fb4p31gat8meth0momg4125dee@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:15:41 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff2 Hoffman) wrote:     M >  Maybe we should implement a SYSGEN parameter, then you can set the product>K >  name displayed by the operating system to whatever you want.  :-)  On a @  	 Solaris++n   There's a marketing trick :)    N >  slightly more serious note, we do actually have customization capabilities L >  logically similar to this within the DECwindows login display, after all. >cL >  But to paraphrase, we don't really care what you call it, so long as you  >  buy it.  :-)o > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------nO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    /O > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------iM >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comb   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 05:42:55 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: Re: VMS "unhackable" example just for Andy ...a= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204160442.26181ec1@posting.google.com>i   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CB6E377.7030005@sun.com>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:r > E > > this is off process softwares site ... you see Andy, us vms usersdE > > remain unhackable even w/cert advisories ... that's what we triedyC > > to tell you in other posts that most ip problems such as buffero: > > overflows don't affect vms ... they just error out ... > >  > > , > > SNMP Inquiry - Cert Advisory CA-2002-03 T > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 
 > > Question:t > > H > > Are either MultiNet or TCPware affected by CERT Advisory CA-2002-03E > > in Many Implementations of the Simple Network Management Protocol $ > > (SNMP), dated February 12, 2002? > >  > > Answer:r > > J > > These SNMP vulnerabilities do NOT pose security risks for MultiNet andJ > > TCPware. MultiNet V4.4A is not vulnerable to these SNMP issues at all.H > > MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware have minor problems with access violationsE > > (resulting in the SNMP process dying), but pose no security risk.IG > > Patches for MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware V5.5-3 are available from thedI > > TCPware ECO Database and the MultiNet ECO database. Use the following  > > kit names: > > ! > > MultiNet V4.3A: SNMP-020_A043k" > > TCPware V5.5-3: SNMPD_V553P011 > >  >  > D > Get it into your skull, people expect to get the IP stack with theA > OS no one expects to have to buy an additional product to get au > secure bug free IP stack.u > = > So what was the response for the IP services for OpenVMS ??, > < > I am not interested in MultiNet or TCPware but what Compaq  > themselves supply for OpenVMS. > @ > or are you really saying that on top of OpenVMS licences which; > are not cheap people should also be spending 1500 dollarst  > on getting a working IP stack. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   ? that is exactly what I am saying ... vms licenses are cheap in tA comparison to the spending 80% of your time patching bugs/virusest> and all the down time and having to run in at 3 in the morningA to rebuild your disk from a hack and buying all that costly virusi< softawre after the fact ... the cost of that far far exceeds@ a measly vms license cost + a $1500 ip stack by huge amounts ...> you never sacrifice security for cost, because in the long runC you are paying thru your nose when vms is saving you tons of money!n   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2002 11:59:18 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)>7 Subject: Re: VMS "unhackable" example just for Andy ...a3 Message-ID: <MD$SRm0DkoDf@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  h In article <d7791aa1.0204160442.26181ec1@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > A > that is exactly what I am saying ... vms licenses are cheap in =C > comparison to the spending 80% of your time patching bugs/virusesl@ > and all the down time and having to run in at 3 in the morningC > to rebuild your disk from a hack and buying all that costly virusR> > softawre after the fact ... the cost of that far far exceedsB > a measly vms license cost + a $1500 ip stack by huge amounts ...@ > you never sacrifice security for cost, because in the long runE > you are paying thru your nose when vms is saving you tons of money!n  @    Interesting, if anecdotal, observation on the TCO yesterday. =    Wandering through a government excess facility looking for %    an AUI cable with 90 degree elbow.d  D    Lots of old systems being excessed.  Mostly PCs, a bunch of Suns,D    and three VAXen.  One of them was an 11/780, the others were 8000
    series.  C    None of the Suns looked to be anywhere near that old.  No wonderu@    DEC and Compaq have trouble keeping hardware profits up.  The!    old systems just keep running.       a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:23:05 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: what disks can I put in an ALPHAstation 255/233?u8 Message-ID: <JdYu8.14$yB.686128@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  w In article <01KGHDHKW0W49EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: D :After 5 years of almost continuous service, the RZ28D-E which came F :inside my ALPHAstation 255/233 (along with an RZ26) crashed recently. ..H :I have an RZ29 which would fit physically, but I'm worried it might be 	 :too hot.i  E   RZ29B disks were shipped with the AlphaStation 255 series -- one ofdG   the systems I use regularly is an AlphaStation 255 4/300 series, and iG   the system disk for this box is an RZ29B (PBXRZ-NA 4GB 7200RPM) disk.oE   (There are minimum required drive firmware requirements for RZ29B.)UJ   For a larger and/or for a hotter disk, I'd definitely go to an external    SCSI enclosure.s    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:41:33 +0200g, From: "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> Subject: Win2000 or OpenVMS . Message-ID: <a9go13$d17$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>   Hello,  J We are running about 7 years on Alpha 1000A/Openvms . After introducing ofH our new Oracle software (Oracle 8.1.7 and Forms, Reports and Designer 6)J that we have developed for our research registration system, we faced some serius  performance problems.   G Initially we considered to buy a new Alpha server which is still a verywK strong option for us. Now we are thinking about a very different option andfI that is migrating to a WIN2000/DEL server. the total costs are lower thenlK Alpha/OpenVMS and Win2000 is easyer to work with (as a system manager). ButnH considering the importance of this descition we would like to hear other@ poeples story/experince. Has anyone out there any experince withI Oracle/Win2000 combination? How stabel is this combination comparing withy
 Alpha/Oracle?n   Regards,
 Hamid Bourchih   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:10:19 +0200c9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>d Subject: Re: Win2000 or OpenVMSg' Message-ID: <3CBBF88B.2F24F81E@aaa.com>e  : When compairing costs, I'd also take a look at some of the9 models between the 1000A and some new box, such as any ofe the Alpha Server 1200 models.T  @ You don't say what speed your 1000A have today, nor what new box you have thought of.  < And "performance" is not only a matter of Mhz, have you done= any investigation of what more memory or faster disk may do ?t   Jan-Erik Sderholm.a     Hamid Bourchi wrote: >  > Hello, > L > We are running about 7 years on Alpha 1000A/Openvms . After introducing ofJ > our new Oracle software (Oracle 8.1.7 and Forms, Reports and Designer 6)L > that we have developed for our research registration system, we faced some > serius  performance problems.n > I > Initially we considered to buy a new Alpha server which is still a veryiM > strong option for us. Now we are thinking about a very different option andfK > that is migrating to a WIN2000/DEL server. the total costs are lower thenOM > Alpha/OpenVMS and Win2000 is easyer to work with (as a system manager). ButuJ > considering the importance of this descition we would like to hear otherB > poeples story/experince. Has anyone out there any experince withK > Oracle/Win2000 combination? How stabel is this combination comparing with  > Alpha/Oracle?. > 
 > Regards, > Hamid Bourchii   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:27:23 -0400n) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Win2000 or OpenVMSt: Message-ID: <OUTu8.6805$YB5.1102570@news20.bellglobal.com>  L The Alpha-1000 is a joke compared to newer machines like the Alpha-DS20. The following URL:4 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/seti_tips.htmlK compares various machines running SETI clients (a CPU bound task) including K PCs running Windows, Alpha-1000, and Alpha-DS20. Obviously, Oracle is going J to require a system with both good CPU and I/O characteristics but a seven5 year old machine of any kind shouldn't be considered.d  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,c Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   7 "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> wrote in messageo( news:a9go13$d17$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl... > Hello, >gL > We are running about 7 years on Alpha 1000A/Openvms . After introducing ofJ > our new Oracle software (Oracle 8.1.7 and Forms, Reports and Designer 6)L > that we have developed for our research registration system, we faced some > serius  performance problems.f > I > Initially we considered to buy a new Alpha server which is still a verynI > strong option for us. Now we are thinking about a very different option  and K > that is migrating to a WIN2000/DEL server. the total costs are lower thenuI > Alpha/OpenVMS and Win2000 is easyer to work with (as a system manager).r ButmJ > considering the importance of this descition we would like to hear otherB > poeples story/experince. Has anyone out there any experince withK > Oracle/Win2000 combination? How stabel is this combination comparing witha > Alpha/Oracle?e >t
 > Regards, > Hamid Bourchi  >f >u >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:44:32 -0500a( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS>2 Message-ID: <a9hdcf$tdq$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>   Hi,a  J On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:41:33 +0200, "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> wrote:   >Hello,e >cK >We are running about 7 years on Alpha 1000A/Openvms . After introducing ofoI >our new Oracle software (Oracle 8.1.7 and Forms, Reports and Designer 6)aK >that we have developed for our research registration system, we faced somer >serius  performance problems. >b [snip] > 	 >Regards,C >Hamid Bourchi >r >rK Is this V8.1.7.0?  If so, massive performance problems are expected....  We-L had major issues when we upgraded to that version from 7.3.3.6.  We ended upN moving to 8.1.7.3 and finding several configuration problems to get back close to pre-upgrade performance.    Hope that helps,   Dave Harrold      N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204sI                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634fG Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999- 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 532150   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:26:59 +0200:, From: "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Win2000 or OpenVMSK. Message-ID: <a9hfp9$ke0$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>    Wat is your configuration David?+ Win2000/DEL and Froms, Reports, Designer 6?.  7 "David Harrold" <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> schreef in berichtc, news:a9hdcf$tdq$1@newsreader.mailgate.org... > Hi,a >fL > On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:41:33 +0200, "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> > wrote: >a	 > >Hello,  > >0J > >We are running about 7 years on Alpha 1000A/Openvms . After introducing ofK > >our new Oracle software (Oracle 8.1.7 and Forms, Reports and Designer 6)@H > >that we have developed for our research registration system, we faced some  > >serius  performance problems. > >e > [snip] > >  > >Regards,3 > >Hamid Bourchi > >c > > I > Is this V8.1.7.0?  If so, massive performance problems are expected....s WeK > had major issues when we upgraded to that version from 7.3.3.6.  We ended, upJ > moving to 8.1.7.3 and finding several configuration problems to get back closew > to pre-upgrade performance.i >  > Hope that helps, >  > Dave Harrold >n >f >t > L ............................................................................ ..E > David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold aty
 aurora.orgK > Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 K >                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634hI > Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  > 3031 W. Montana Street > Milwaukee, WI 53215,   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:01:51 -0500 ( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: Win2000 or OpenVMS 2 Message-ID: <a9hi1a$2ir$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>   Hi,s  J On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:26:59 +0200, "Hamid Bourchi" <hbourchi@hotmail.com> wrote:   Whoops, sorry...  ! >Wat is your configuration David?r, >Win2000/DEL and Froms, Reports, Designer 6? >uJ GS-140 , 12CPU, 8Gb memory VMS V7.3.  We don't use the Oracle tools, its aK purchased application.  Basically, we went from using roughly 60% of the 10 J CPU version of this machine, to 100% and the application ground to a halt.J When the users declared defeat and went to downtime procedures, we usuallyL took about 4 hours to process all of the pending transactions.  Very ugly.    ) With the 12-way, we're back to about 65%.a   Hope that helps,   Dave    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999s 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:59:24 -0500c( From: "James Wiley" <Wiley@Tarleton.edu> Subject: X session( Message-ID: <a9he8d$l0m$1@news.tamu.edu>  L Can anyone tell me how to start an X session on a Open/VMS 7.1 system?  I amH trying to use Starnet's X-Win32 to set up an X session, and I don't know> what command to send the VMS system to get the X server going.  H Also, years ago, when we first got our VMS system, we used a DEC productE called eXcursion, but it doesn't work anymore - what is the follow onb" product for that, or is there one?   Thanks   James L. Wiley Wiley@Tarleton.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:30:24 +0200m) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>m Subject: Re: X session/ Message-ID: <3CBC4390.6050305@xs4all.nospam.nl>    James Wiley wrote:N > Can anyone tell me how to start an X session on a Open/VMS 7.1 system?  I amJ > trying to use Starnet's X-Win32 to set up an X session, and I don't know@ > what command to send the VMS system to get the X server going.  D I assume that  Decwindows support has been installed on you OpenVMS G system. I also assume that you already have started X-Win32 on your PC.a Then do:  = $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=<your PC's address>-% $ RUN <whatever application you want>:  C You can run SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$STARTLOGIN to start a CDE session or a  H DECWindows Motif session, depending on whether your OpenVMS system is a E VAX or an Alpha, and, in the latter case, which environment you have aE configured as default. CDE is default on Alpha, unless you change it.e  J > Also, years ago, when we first got our VMS system, we used a DEC productG > called eXcursion, but it doesn't work anymore - what is the follow onr$ > product for that, or is there one?  D I am using eXcursion V7.2 on my Windows2000 Pro laptop. No problems.   HTH,  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.210 ************************ really care what you call it, so long as you  >  buy it.  :-)o > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------nO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    /O > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------iM >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec. n    n    n    n    n    n    n    n    n    	n    
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