1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 18 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 214       Contents:7 Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release) 7 Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release) 7 Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release) 7 Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release)  Re: Alpha tuning didn't  Re: Alpha tuning didn't  Re: Alpha tuning didn't  Re: Alpha tuning didn't 2 ANN: Tachyon multithreaded raytracer ported to VMS0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe$ Any UK-based SYSTEL users out there?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?, Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development? Buffered IO performance  RE: Coding suggestion please... : RE: DCPS Setup PrintServer 17/600 on new@ AlphsServer DS10  Re: DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem  Re: DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem5 DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq) 9 Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq) 9 Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq) 9 Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq) 9 Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq) 9 Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq) A Emacs and other Unix applications on VMS, was: Re: VMS versus IBM + RE: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS + Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS  Re: Found it.. Nevermind. ;-)   Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?  Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?- Re: getting SIMH 2.9-6/VAX + VMS configured ? 2 Re: HP To Build (Linux/IA64) Supercomputer For DoEF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux- Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! I Re: It isn't just Alpha/OpenVMS users complaining about lack of marketing  Re: Itanium Oddities Re: Itanium Oddities Re: Itanium OdditiesA Just another big bug in windoze ... don't touch that back button! > Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles), linking with pthread library for C++ program5 Major Virus Alert!  Better get on VMS now or bye bye! 9 Re: Major Virus Alert!  Better get on VMS now or bye bye! # Re: Many thanks to Island Computers # Re: Many thanks to Island Computers * Memory Sale - DS20/DS20e/ES40 1 & 2GB Kits' Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq ' Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq ' Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq ' Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq + Re: More proof EV8 will live in itanium ...  OpenVMS BOOT CONTEST Re: OpenVMS BOOT CONTEST Re: OpenVMS BOOT CONTEST OpenVMX ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it ) Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it > Presentations from OpenVMS Technical Update Days now  availabl Re: Problem with Compaq C 6.4 , Re: Redirect SYS$OUTPUT for detached process* Re: Require info on DWDM for VMSclusteringP Re: Semi-automatic clutch. (was Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Ita System Disk as Quorum Disk Re: System Disk as Quorum Disk" Re: Throughput and additional CPUs, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ? Re: Two IP printing problems Re: UIC's and such.  Re: UIC's and such.  Re: UIC's and such.  Re: UIC's and such.  Re: VAX/Alpha CI Re: VAX/Alpha CI VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)  Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)  Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)  Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)  Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)  Re: VMS versus IBM Re: VMS versus IBM Re: VMS versus IBM Re: VMS versus IBM  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:22:54 GMT / From: mrr@acer.reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) @ Subject: Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release)3 Message-ID: <2Dtv8.7$nB5.413@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>   1 In article <a9kpa0$hv4$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, 3 Saku Setala <setala@phys-staff7.kolumbus.fi> wrote: I >Didn't try that yet, but earlier on I was running TS10 on a MicroVax II.  >  >That was *slow* > M >Now, if SIMH compiles on VMS, I do have bunch of slow VAXen to test how many  >times you can nest SIMH..   Now for a challenge :   = How many different emulators can you stack inside each other?      >  >--Saku  > , >In article <a9kn5a0vg4@enews1.newsguy.com>,2 >Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:N >>I just had an evil thought, has anyone tried running SIMH on an emulated VAX/ >>yet :^)  Preferably emulating another VAX :^)  >>  	 .. morten    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:42:34 GMT ' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> @ Subject: Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release)" Message-ID: <3cbeb11d@zfree.co.nz>   Kevin,  B that's exactly what I did but still get compiler and linker erors.$ Will report them later this evening.   Hans      Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote: >Hans Vlems wrote: >> Bob,  >>  C >> let me start with admitting that I'm not much of a C programmer. B >> I tried to make simh V2.9 work on a VAX 7.2 system (with DEC-C) >> and got a compiler error: >>   >> $ @build_vms  >>  . >> Runtime Debugger Won't Be Included At Link. >> Compiling On A VAX Machine. >>  4 >> Compling The SYS$DISK:[.LIB]SIMH-VAX.OLB Library. >> Using Compile Command: < >> CC/PREFIX=ALL/NOOPTIMIZE/NODEBUG/NEST=PRIMARY/NAME=(AS_IS$ >> ,SHORTENED)/INCLUDE=(SYS$DISK:[]) > @ >Try losing the ', shortened' option. It looks like your version >of DEC-C doesn't like it. > @ >(I don't know what it is supposed to do, but it obviously isn't >being allowed by DCL) >  >>   >>         SYS$DISK:[]SCP_TTY.C D >> %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling >>  \SHORTENED\ H >> %LIBRAR-W-OPENIN, error opening DISK$DISK:[SIMH]SCP_TTY.OBJ; as input >> -RMS-E-FNF, file not found J >> %DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$DISK:[SIMH]SCP_TTY.OBJ;* >> -RMS-E-FNF, file not found   >>         SYS$DISK:[]SIM_SOCK.C > 0 >Additional errors probably caused by failed CC. >  >        http://www.zfree.co.nz    .   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:47:57 -0400 * From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com>@ Subject: Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release)8 Message-ID: <ihjtbu4t2298tk8ffe43uic6hap3otif1a@4ax.com>  E 1. I don't believe the VAX (or PDP-10) simulators will build on DEC-C E VAX, because it doesn't support 64b integers.  It does build on DEC-C < Alpha, and there's a build_vms.com file in the distribution.  F 2. For Windows, you need to include wsock32.dll as part of the library load specification.    /Bob  E On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:13:22 GMT, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:    >Bob,  > A >let me start with admitting that I'm not much of a C programmer. @ >I tried to make simh V2.9 work on a VAX 7.2 system (with DEC-C) >and got a compiler error: > 
 >$ @build_vms  > , >Runtime Debugger Won't Be Included At Link. >Compiling On A VAX Machine. > 2 >Compling The SYS$DISK:[.LIB]SIMH-VAX.OLB Library. >Using Compile Command: : >CC/PREFIX=ALL/NOOPTIMIZE/NODEBUG/NEST=PRIMARY/NAME=(AS_IS" >,SHORTENED)/INCLUDE=(SYS$DISK:[]) >  >        SYS$DISK:[]SCP_TTY.C B >%DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
 > \SHORTENED\ F >%LIBRAR-W-OPENIN, error opening DISK$DISK:[SIMH]SCP_TTY.OBJ; as input >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found H >%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$DISK:[SIMH]SCP_TTY.OBJ;* >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found  >        SYS$DISK:[]SIM_SOCK.CB >%DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
 > \SHORTENED\ G >%LIBRAR-W-OPENIN, error opening DISK$DISK:[SIMH]SIM_SOCK.OBJ; as input  >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found I >%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$DISK:[SIMH]SIM_SOCK.OBJ;*  >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found  >        SYS$DISK:[]SIM_TMXR.CB >%DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
 > \SHORTENED\  > I >Next I tried to build it with C++ on W98. There I got this linker error:  > 4 >--------------------Configuration: simh v29 - Win32 >Debug-------------------- >Linking... C >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _listen@8 B >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _bind@12B >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _htonl@4B >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _htons@4D >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _socket@12G >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _WSAStartup@8 B >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _ntohl@4L >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _WSAGetLastError@0D >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _accept@12B >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _recv@16B >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _send@16G >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _WSACleanup@0 H >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _closesocket@4I >sim_sock.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _ioctlsocket@12 B >Debug/simh v29.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 14 unresolved externals >Error executing link.exe. > ) >simh v29.exe - 15 error(s), 0 warning(s)  > L >What I want to do is build the PDP-11 simulator. Now I did not modify any C" >file. Just the build_vms.com fileL >because DCL does not like the extra <CR> character. The compiler is not too# >fond of it either but assumes it's 
 >white space.  > I >The question is, can you point me to a configuration/installation guide?  >  >Hans Vlems  >  >PS ( >Any chance of getting a B7700 emulator? > 6 >Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> wrote in message3 >news:ki2rbuk0v10h9r2j9qcnlc5gvo1pnt5jbi@4ax.com... G >> Found the bug that was causing integer overflow in SDL installation. I >> In EDIV, if divisor and dividend had different signs, and the quotient . >> was 0, the test for overflow was incorrect. >>; >> Both this and the CASEL fix are released as 2.9-6 today.  >>E >> There is still a bug in handling compressed libraries.  Unless the H >> system libraries are decompressed, installations fail.  This bug doesH >> not occur in Tim Stark's TS10, so a prize to the person who finds the, >> discrepancy between the two simulators ;) >> >> /Bob  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:14:43 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> @ Subject: Re: 2.9-6 (Re: SIMH 2.9-5 - first official VAX release)& Message-ID: <3CBEE2E3.9040308@srv.net>   David G. Conroy wrote:G > I vaguely remember something similar. To be specific, PDP-11/05 which K > passed all the diagnostics even though the SWAB instruction did something C > extraordinarily broken with the condition codes; sadly, it didn't   > make it disk bootstrap loader. >   : What I've been finding amazing, is how much of the various; OS's will run with broken instructions. You can change some 7 instructions in the simulator (which do get used) to do 4 something really odd, and the only indication of the= brokenness is an odd warning message that pops up much later, & or a single program that doesn't work.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:23:05 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>   Subject: Re: Alpha tuning didn't; Message-ID: <z8xv8.14416$YB5.2085344@news20.bellglobal.com>   K I'd always been of the opinion that DEC's seemingly liberal tuning policies G were chosen to stimulate hardware sales (like memory cards etc.). These A tuning policies didn't seem to change much when Compaq took over.   L Try adding these commands to the bottom of file "MODPARAMS.DAT" in directory "SYS$SYSTEM"...    maxprocesscnt = 48
 wsmax = 20000   L ...then re-execute "AUTOGEN.COM" in directory "SYS$UPDATE" being sure to useL both the "SAVPARAMS" and "CHECK_FEEDBACK" switches. Tuning is a black art soH be sure to check for warnings and errors in file "AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT" inI directory "SYS$SYSTEM" or you might not be able to reboot. Let the system J run for 24 hours then use command "$MCR SYSGEN" to view the current valuesL of "NPAGEDYN" and "PAGEDYN". Reduce these values by 25% then use them to add@ two more lines to the bottom of  file "MODPARAMS.DAT" like so...   npagedyn = ? pagedyn = ?   L ...then re-execute "AUTOGEN.COM" again. Note that dropping "PAGEDYN" too lowI can adversely affect system performance. (the tuning program usually sets L "PAGEDYN" to twice the value observed in the FEEDBACK file. Be sure to check. file "AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT" every time you tune.  
 Good luck.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/     F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3cbc5937$1@news.si.com...G > I have a lone Alpha 1000 (4/233, 320 Mb memory) in a cluster with ten  ortherK > VAXes.  The Alpha has been acting as a mail router and running some other J > freeware tools, no interactive work by anyone but me (only a single userG > license).  It had been operational for about a year when I decided to L > AUTOGEN it.  Man, am I sorry I did.  It jacked up the NPAGEDYN and PAGEDYNJ > significantlyand adjusted a number of other parameters.  After a reboot,  > performance is utterly dismal. > I > I'm not familiar enough with Alphas to evaluate what parameters to drop  back > (other than all of them).  > H > I don't expect anyone to really solve my problem, since you don't know thisG > system, but I just wanted to complain about AUTOGEN a little.  ~whine  whine~ > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent > > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:14:26 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: Alpha tuning didn't$ Message-ID: <3cbef988$3@news.si.com>  F >Perhaps something or someone got into MODPARAMS.DAT while you weren'tB >looking and autogen gladly accepted the new (and maybe incorrect) >parameters.  " MODPARAMS.DAT contains four lines:  = AGEN$INCLUDE_PARAMS SYS$COMMON_VAX:[SYSEXE]CLUSTER_PARAMS.DAT / AGEN$INCLUDE_PARAMS SYS$SYSTEM:ALPHA_PARAMS.DAT  SCSNODE="KENT" SCSSYSTEMID=1072  H CLUSTER_PATAMS.DAT contains the parameters that all the VAX nodes in ourF cluster, from VAXstation 3100s to VLCs to the 4000-600As use that I'veE fine-tuned over the years for good VAX performance.  ALPHA_PARAMS.DAT I contains a few parameters that the initial AUTOGEN created when the Alpha  was added.  Specifically:    ALLOCLASS=0  DISK_QUORUM="                " LOCKDIRWT=0  MIN_GH_RES_CODE=1024 MIN_GH_RSRVPGCNT=512 MIN_IMGREG_PAGES=2000  MSCP_LOAD=0  MSCP_SERVE_ALL=0 NISCS_CONV_BOOT=1  SHADOWING=0  VOTES=0   J The problem is that I'm not sure which of the CLUSTER_PARAM.DAT values mayJ be inappropriate to the Alpha, even though they're appropriate for the VAXG workstations.  I also suspect the Alpha's woefully deficient on memory.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:45:50 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: Alpha tuning didn't$ Message-ID: <3cbef988$5@news.si.com>  E >Also someone could previously have changed some parameters directly 	J >using SYSGEN and not put them in MODPARAMS.DAT, therefore by autogen'ing   >you'll have lost those changes.  I Nope.  As I said originally, I'm the only one using this particular node.i -- fA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comXA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventl< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:06:33 -0400A; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>n  Subject: Re: Alpha tuning didn't$ Message-ID: <3cbef988$7@news.si.com>  3 >The other thing I usually do after an Autogen is a & >$ diff /para sys$system:setparams.dat  K OK, Here's the result (modified slightly to line things up) of what changed H in SETPARAMS.DAT.  Nothing sticks out at me, other than to make me think8 that the Alpha just doesn't have enough physical memory.  & $ diff/par sys$system:setparams.dat ;1L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---R. File SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SETPARAMS.DA  |  File  SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SETPARAMS.DA; ------------------- 5 -------------------------------------o 5 -----------------s= set GBLSECTIONS 750                    |  set GBLSECTIONS 250-< set GBLPAGES 120016                    |  set GBLPAGES 59600; set GBLPAGFIL 1024                     |  set GBLPAGFIL 128 ? set MAXPROCESSCNT 188                  |  set MAXPROCESSCNT 365t< set PROCSECTCNT 64                     |  set PROCSECTCNT 329 set MINWSCNT 20                        |  set MINWSCNT 20n; set SYSMWCNT 5322                      |  set SYSMWCNT 6340l; set BALSETCNT 186                      |  set BALSETCNT 363 > set NPAGEDYN 2719744                   |  set NPAGEDYN 2277376? set NPAGEVIR 11141120                  |  set NPAGEVIR 11386880u= set PAGEDYN 2482176                    |  set PAGEDYN 3309568t; ------------------- 21 ------------------------------------I 21 ----------------k> set MPW_LOLIMIT 558                    |  set MPW_LOLIMIT 1089= set MPW_THRESH 1116                    |  set MPW_THRESH 2178r; ------------------- 29 ------------------------------------t 29 ---------------- 8 set WSDEC 0                            |  set WSDEC 4000; ------------------- 33 ------------------------------------V 33 ----------------D< set MVTIMEOUT 64000                    |  set MVTIMEOUT 3600( set MAXBUF 8400                        |( set DEFMBXBUFQUO 8192                  |( set DEFMBXMXMSG 8400                   |9 set FREELIM 206                        |  set FREELIM 383r; set FREEGOAL 744                       |  set FREEGOAL 1452 9 set GROWLIM 206                        |  set GROWLIM 383 ; set BORROWLIM 206                      |  set BORROWLIM 383l< set LOCKIDTBL 3022                     |  set LOCKIDTBL 1792; set SCSBUFFCNT 512                     |  set SCSBUFFCNT 50r: set SCSCONNCNT 301                     |  set SCSCONNCNT 5; ------------------- 50 ------------------------------------r 47 ----------------U9 set PASTDGBUF 16                       |  set PASTDGBUF 4e= set LNMSHASHTBL 4096                   |  set LNMSHASHTBL 512 ( set TTY_ALTYPAHD 2064                  |< set RMS_DFMBFSDK 2                     |  set RMS_DFMBFSDK 0< set RMS_DFMBFSMT 2                     |  set RMS_DFMBFSMT 0< set RMS_DFMBFSUR 2                     |  set RMS_DFMBFSUR 0; ------------------- 61 ------------------------------------S 57 ----------------l( set RMS_EXTEND_SIZE 10                 |( set PQL_DASTLM 200                     |( set PQL_MASTLM 150                     |( set PQL_DBIOLM 200                     |( set PQL_MBIOLM 100                     |( set PQL_MBYTLM 100000                  |( set PQL_DDIOLM 200                     |( set PQL_MDIOLM 100                     |( set PQL_MFILLM 100                     |( set PQL_MPGFLQUOTA 32768               |( set PQL_MPRCLM 10                      |; ------------------- 79 ------------------------------------- 64 -----------------( set PQL_MENQLM 2000                    |> set ACP_MAPCACHE 183                   |  set ACP_MAPCACHE 181> set ACP_HDRCACHE 732                   |  set ACP_HDRCACHE 726> set ACP_DIRCACHE 732                   |  set ACP_DIRCACHE 726@ set ACP_DINDXCACHE 183                 |  set ACP_DINDXCACHE 181> set ACP_QUOCACHE 188                   |  set ACP_QUOCACHE 365< set ACP_SYSACC 8                       |  set ACP_SYSACC 121> set EXPECTED_VOTES 3                   |  set EXPECTED_VOTES 15 set VOTES 0                            |  set VOTES 1 > set RECNXINTERVAL 180                  |  set RECNXINTERVAL 20F set DISK_QUORUM "                "     |  set DISK_QUORUM "$10$DUA220"9 set LOCKDIRWT 0                        |  set LOCKDIRWT 0 ( set NISCS_CONV_BOOT 1                  |; ------------------- 100 -----------------------------------M 83 ---------------- ( set WINDOW_SYSTEM 1                    |? set SHADOW_MAX_COPY 0                  |  set SHADOW_MAX_COPY 1e> set GH_EXEC_DATA 96                    |  set GH_EXEC_DATA 128= set GH_RES_CODE 1536                   |  set GH_RES_CODE 512 ( set GH_RSRVPGCNT 512                   |( set IMGREG_PAGES 2000                  |( set CHANNELCNT 400                     |: set CTLPAGES 204                       |  set CTLPAGES 100; ------------------- 118 -----------------------------------  97 ----------------h( set XQPCTL2 1                          |L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---g --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com>= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventm< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:38:40 GMT-. From: ">>> ^P" <plj@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>; Subject: ANN: Tachyon multithreaded raytracer ported to VMSC8 Message-ID: <3CBEDA6E.C208AD9@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>    Hello fellow VMS'ers and others,  / The Tachyon parallel/multiprocessor raytracer (RE http://jedi.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/raytracer/ ) has been partly ported to-E VMS, it does not yet handle unix directories and gives an overflow onSG VMS very seldom or special occasions, I may look into these later, whenS# I get the time and interrest again.r It's available here:> http://byron.ext.telia.se/anonymous/VMS/TDF/TACHYON_0_93_4.ZIP  E VMS specific feature is using sys$getsyiw to get the number of activem CPU's and using that' to create the number of worker threads.   E An Alpha VMS  7.2-1 executable is included, otherwise you'll need a C4 compiler and at least>D VMS 7.1 to have a "mature" pthreads-library, it's been tested on VMS? 7.2-1 using an eight cpu 8400 5/625 and 7.3 two cpu 8400 5/300.d  	 >>> ^P.Ljl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:25:03 +0100sT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybei& Message-ID: <3CBEBB1F.1040102@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  * > Yeah, he "implemented" clusters for Sun. >     5 If implimented means wrote a cluster product then yesc6 I suspect you however mean installed in which case not# guilty except for testing purposes.i   Regards  Andrew Harrisonm      > Bill Todd wrote in message ... > B >>"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message( >>news:a9f1o9$280r$1@lead.zk3.dec.com... >>; >>>Aw, and I thought you said you *weren't* a market-droid.E >>>nE >>>Come on, admit it.  You're in sales right?  Never really have doneR >>>O
 >>anything >>F >>>technical.  Right?  You getting a lot of business from these posts? >>>EH >>Andrew has already replied to that at least once by citing work he has >> > done.  > I >>And while some of his statements do tend to shed doubt on his technicaldJ >>competence, they do so no more than a lot of your recent statements shed >>doubt on your own. >>D >>Sun probably doesn't get too much business as a result of Andrew'sK >>participation here (which would be less offensive if he stuck more to the J >>real grains of truth many of his observations contain):  they likely get >> > farl > I >>more business as a result of Compaq's actions than as a result of *any*9 >>activity in c.o.v. >> >>- bill >> >> >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:26:09 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com- Subject: Any UK-based SYSTEL users out there?b: Message-ID: <OFD279D2E2.1220C309-ON00256B9F.00441A39@btyp>  G We are having a problem since CYRANO went boobs-up a while ago, and thebJ organisation we were dealing with [GRESHAM] for support has been unable to/ supply us with SYSTEL licences since this time.   J Is any other UK user having the same problem? What are you doing about it?   Thanks   Steve S2      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has6G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,m$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedxK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.   
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.t  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,DD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 08:03:22 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?f3 Message-ID: <CPf4bNw+Wwpv@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  Z In article <3CBD3DFF.1951.C71ACAC@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:- > On 17 Apr 2002, at 7:47, Bob Koehler wrote:  > I >>    I've tried patching the idle loop to a halt.  It never seems to getdH >>    executed.  I thought when all else was said and done the idle loop >>    still was in use.a > = > But your patch means that CHARON-VAX is emulating the HALT n. > instruction.  It doesn't halt the emulation.  A    I miss my 11/780.  When I executed a HALT instruction, it did.tE    Very handy for debugging paths device drivers were not supposed tod	    reach.b  E    Then I had to port a driver from an 11/785 to a 4000 Model 500 and-F    found out what the HALT instuction did at the system level dependedH    on the console setting.  No fun seeing the system reboot when you had    planned on examining memory.@  9    So what should an emulator do when it emulates a HALT?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:49:08 -0400s* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?;/ Message-ID: <3CBE9694.14467.11B3B1BD@localhost>e  + On 18 Apr 2002, at 8:03, Bob Koehler wrote:w  ; >    So what should an emulator do when it emulates a HALT?o  B It should do exactly what the real processor would do.  In CHARON-F VAX, support is provided for VAX 3500/3600, MicroVAX II, and MicroVAX  II+.  E I'd be really surprised if XDELTA couldn't be used to debug a device d driver.r    
 --Stan Quayle-! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.p  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671t1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147n= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comE   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 09:22:39 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)p5 Subject: Re: Anyone using CHARON-VAX for development?r= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204180822.6bc8f599@posting.google.com>S  ` "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message news:<3CBC56A2.17102.8E9E88B@localhost>...G > Up until VMS 5.0, the idle loop was a real process.  It was possible ME > to replace that process with something else.  If SRI added a "back cC > door" to CHARON-VAX, a replacement idle process might be able to r  > throttle back CPU utilization. > F > Starting with VMS 5.0, the idle loop is a real loop.  SRI or Compaq F > might be able to supply a patch to the scheduler to back off on the A > CPU.  The patch would have to be on a version-by-version basis.m  C Why couldn't the emulator detect the special case of an instruction. branching to its own address?a. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 02:19:10 -0700 From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)i  Subject: Buffered IO performance= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0204180119.2340015c@posting.google.com>r   Hi,   C I am on performance tuning of a server which listen to a socket fornF client connection.  The server poll messages by a third party function6 call to get messages to send to the connected clients.  ? I am facing a performance drop when number of client connection A increase as the buffered IO increase.  I use 'mon sys' command tooB checked, I suspect that the server is buffered IO bounded (>8000).   The main logic,o& 1. poll messages by the 3rd party call1 2. send the polled messages to client thro socketaD 3. standard C select call with timeout 1ms for new client connection or conection drop.  F I suspect the high rate of buffred io is caused by the 1ms time out onC client sockets (could be > 90).  I minimize the timeout time to 1msoC because i want the server call the 3rd party call asap (this is the 
 requirement).c  E Is there any system para. that I could setup such that I could reduceO< the buffered IO without changing architecture of the server?   Thanks in advance,   Wing   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2002 10:00 CDTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ( Subject: RE: Coding suggestion please...- Message-ID: <18APR200210005404@gerg.tamu.edu>a  ' "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes...s4 }Just curious, when did descriptors first enter VMS?   In the beginning.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:17:15 -0400. From: kippleyj@netscape.netAC Subject: RE: DCPS Setup PrintServer 17/600 on new@ AlphsServer DS10s5 Message-ID: <7463601D.74A3D77A.009F4080@netscape.net>r  H Paul, Defining and setting Printserver 17 nodes on the Alpha worked likeH a charm!, Also modified the DCPS$startup.com (the 2.0 version) on Alpha.  J So I'm able to print across network from the Alpha to the 17's as desired,> so Thank You very much for steering me in the right direction!  H As you stated this all works as long as the printserver 17's get loaded D with the lps_printserver17.sys and the DECnet database on the systemG they are loaded on has extended info beyond the node and Decnet addresspD info required on any connecting nodes.  So I will look into getting D that printserver software (LPS) for the Alpha, so the 17's could getG loaded there in the future.  So for time being it's nice that the MV is0G needed :) of course our Alphas are great, and I look forward to workingE6 with VMS on Itanium a ways up the road!  VMS Rocks!     . John Kippley   Manager I.T.  American Medibase        B __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/   W Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:19:12 -0400   From: "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com>) Subject: Re: DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem-/ Message-ID: <ubu00p72unrk24@corp.supernews.com>   C Thanks.  The crash file was empty though.  I was not able to changepK WINDOW_SYSTEM though.  In fact, until I swapped out the video adaptor, none L of my autogen parameter changes would stick.  I'm sure there's a good reasonK for it, but I'm new to sys admin.  I've been a VMS user (at work) for aboutn4 12 years, but this is my first own (for home) Alpha.  G I suspect I'll have a bunch of questions for the news group for quite at while.  
 Thanks again.X   -- David Yasko C "The day after tomorrow is the third day of the rest of your life."     > "Keith A. Lewis" <sssslewis@spyder.mitre.org> wrote in message( news:a9kerc$g2c$1@newslocal.mitre.org.... : "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com> writes in articleJ <ubratufdma72f1@corp.supernews.com> dated Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:07:00 -0400:F : >I'm hoping someone can help me.  I just got a DEC 3000/400 that was runningAI : >OSF1.  I installed VMS 6.2, and just about everything works fine.  Theg oneuH : >problem I'm trying to solve now is that everytime I log out (from anyJ : >account), or try to shutdown the machine, it reboots.  It doesn't do anG : >orderly shutdown.  It just kicks over to the boot-up hardware tests.k :hH : Do you have a dumpfile set up?  The default is sys$system:sysdump.dmp. Try: : ANAL/CRASH on it.- :-K : You might want to try setting the WINDOW_SYSTEM parameter to 0 and see ifi! : you can do an orderly shutdown.  : - : --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org-@ : The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:19:17 -0400e  From: "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com>) Subject: Re: DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem4/ Message-ID: <ubu00prhrfa626@corp.supernews.com>A  J Thanks.  Apparently, I did have open3d installed, but I had to replace theF video adaptor anyway.  After that, I was able to do a proper shutdown.  
 Thanks again.    -- David YaskoYC "The day after tomorrow is the third day of the rest of your life."     @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message& news:a9kj26$50ne$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...K : The PMAG-DA is the PXG 3D adapter.  You need to install Open3D (I have noY9 : idea what the last version that V6.2 was supported on).- :-I : A PMAGB-BA is a HX (aka the SFB) which should work well out-of-the-box.e :P :O :I : Dave wrote in message ...e	 : >Hello,I : >9F : >I'm hoping someone can help me.  I just got a DEC 3000/400 that was running-I : >OSF1.  I installed VMS 6.2, and just about everything works fine.  TheE one H : >problem I'm trying to solve now is that everytime I log out (from anyJ : >account), or try to shutdown the machine, it reboots.  It doesn't do anG : >orderly shutdown.  It just kicks over to the boot-up hardware tests.  : >|G : >I don't know what other information is needed, but here's what know: % : >    133 MHz, 128MB, PMAG-DA video. I : >    CPU devstat = OK KN15-BA -V5.1-S749-I196-sV1.0-DECchip 21064  P3.0e : >EK : >It almost appears that whenever the window manager restarts, it does theO< : >whole reboot thing.  Hitting CTL-F2 even causes a reboot. : >BK : >Does anyone know what might be causing this?  My next test is to replace  : the : : >video card with a PMAGB-B to see if it's video related. : >| : >Thanks in advance.- : >- : >--- : >David YaskoF : >"The day after tomorrow is the third day of the rest of your life." : >  : >  : >| :e :A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:06:40 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>2> Subject: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq)' Message-ID: <3CBE7080.FB35B92E@aaa.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > & > Does Touch still have DEC document ?   They sure does !  H I myself bought an "hobbyist licens" of DECdoc at 199 USD aug last year.   Check : www.ttinet.com.      Jan-Erik Sderholm   PS. , Also check there "links" page, with links as. "The Original CHATTY CATHY COLLECTORS CLUB"... :-)Q DS.O   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:23:54 GMTe, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>B Subject: Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq)8 Message-ID: <uovv8.2$0p1.140334@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  I I still use it as much as I can. I've wasted days keeping up with the new-1 stuff, but still nothing comes near DEC document.E  L It's interesting that TTI positioned it as an system for producing HTML that< also - if you really want it - can handle hard-copy as well.   bD3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3CBE7080.FB35B92E@aaa.com...C > JF Mezei wrote:  > >|( > > Does Touch still have DEC document ? >8 > They sure does ! >eJ > I myself bought an "hobbyist licens" of DECdoc at 199 USD aug last year. >1 > Check : www.ttinet.com.  >  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm >S > PS. . > Also check there "links" page, with links as0 > "The Original CHATTY CATHY COLLECTORS CLUB"... > :-)T > DS.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:54:02 +0010e% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au B Subject: Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq)5 Message-ID: <01KGPYSV8TOY000NBV@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>3  J >I still use it as much as I can. I've wasted days keeping up with the new2 >stuff, but still nothing comes near DEC document.  	 Tex/LaTexA   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:22:48 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> B Subject: Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq)& Message-ID: <3CBE9E77.1E2E8BC@aaa.com>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > L > >I still use it as much as I can. I've wasted days keeping up with the new4 > >stuff, but still nothing comes near DEC document. >  > Tex/LaTex- >  > Regards, Paddy  5 Which is the formatting "engine" in DECdoc anyway :-)    Regardsn Jan-Erik Sderholm.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:01:45 GMT>, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>B Subject: Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq)9 Message-ID: <dlAv8.14$7y1.376944@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   E Precisely. If you're using DECdocument you're using TeX anyway, and I:7 wouldn't expect to use TeX directly and keep my sanity.>  J And  isn't LaTeX just another front-end to TeX? (I don't know - it's aboutE 15 years since I used it - but I still have vague memories of warningoL messages about 'badness 10000'). If it is, I much prefer DECdocument for useC in a context where a small number of designs need to be maintained.t   bh3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message   news:3CBE9E77.1E2E8BC@aaa.com...( > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > >iJ > > >I still use it as much as I can. I've wasted days keeping up with the newu6 > > >stuff, but still nothing comes near DEC document. > > 
 > > Tex/LaTexg > >e > > Regards, Paddy >'7 > Which is the formatting "engine" in DECdoc anyway :-)  > 	 > RegardsS > Jan-Erik Sderholm.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:21:15 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> B Subject: Re: DECdoc (Was: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq)' Message-ID: <3CBED65B.E3AB60A3@aaa.com>   = Yes, LaTeX is a add-on/frontend/preprocessor/whatever to TeX.U  9 And you are writing VMS-related docs, you get the VMS-docu) look-n-feel for free when running DECdoc.c  	 Jan-Erik.    Bob Knowles wrote: > G > Precisely. If you're using DECdocument you're using TeX anyway, and Ir9 > wouldn't expect to use TeX directly and keep my sanity.o > L > And  isn't LaTeX just another front-end to TeX? (I don't know - it's aboutG > 15 years since I used it - but I still have vague memories of warning N > messages about 'badness 10000'). If it is, I much prefer DECdocument for useE > in a context where a small number of designs need to be maintained.I >  > by5 > "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messagen" > news:3CBE9E77.1E2E8BC@aaa.com...* > > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > > >tL > > > >I still use it as much as I can. I've wasted days keeping up with the > news8 > > > >stuff, but still nothing comes near DEC document. > > >  > > > Tex/LaTexn > > >  > > > Regards, Paddy > >e9 > > Which is the formatting "engine" in DECdoc anyway :-)o > >o > > Regards  > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 07:49:02 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)J Subject: Emacs and other Unix applications on VMS, was: Re: VMS versus IBM3 Message-ID: <Te0BkHtIol32@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3CBE9006.23E2A56D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > F > However, the upshot of the work, is that effectively there will be aE > UNIX shell, both BASH and KORN were mentioned, and a lot of work isyG > going on right now to implement things in VMS that make the whole job I > easier, e.g. the rooted file system mapping to the way VMS works, a fewiF > quirks of the UNIX file system and making ODS5 deliver what the UNIXH > needs, but all this without breaking any of the VMS. A number of other@ > things that UNIX users take for granted, including FORK should/ > hopefully, eventually, make its way into VMS.  >  v  B What I am curious about is when will the level of compatibility beF sufficient for me to take the latest GNU Emacs kit (or another popularE Unix application, but Emacs is the one I'm mainly interested in), andn build it as is on VMS ?r  H > My personal gut feeling however is that linux isn't being picked up inD > the enterprise way expected, the only place I see it making actualI > inroads is replacing MS desktops c/w Staroffice. There's a police forced= > in the UK doing just that (but I forget the reference now).h >  a  J I wonder if that will change when the students of today get into positions) of purchasing power in future employers ?o   Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:10:07 -0400d. From: "Crowley, George M." <gmcrowley@tva.gov>4 Subject: RE: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMSK Message-ID: <217D812D39F9D411884700508BCFE560FF2C81@tvawbnxch1.wbn.tva.gov>   B How does one bounce the DECW$SERVER after making the change to the DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP?   George   -----Original Message-----) From: Upadhyaya [mailto:ups@hotvoice.com]n' Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:23 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh4 Subject: Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS    ( > $ sho log decw$server_trans*/tab=decw** The output on my system is same as your's.  J > Which means if I wanted to use TCPIP as a transport on this  machine I'd7 have to edit SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM,sC DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM file is not in my VMS system. We useda following commandaG define/tab=DECW$SERVER0_TABLE/exec/tran=terminal DECW$SERVER_TRANSPORTSp decnet,local,tcpip  8 Now the output of $ sho log decw$server_trans*/tab=decw* shows DECnet, Local and TCPIP.  < > change the entry for the transport and restart the server.4 Should I restart eXcursion or VMS DECWindows Server?  5 I restarted eXcursion, but could not get login shell.    Regards,	 Upadhyaya-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:20:28 -0400F; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>V4 Subject: Re: Excursion PCs as X-Terminals on OpenVMS$ Message-ID: <3cbef988$1@news.si.com>  < >DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM file is not in my VMS system.  G But I'll bet SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE is.  You'rewG supposed to copy that to .COM and modify it to suit your local machine.X --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.combA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com,= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 08:19:26 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r& Subject: Re: Found it.. Nevermind. ;-)3 Message-ID: <e4X8YMO+zRIG@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  ] In article <a9kh5i$40bkp$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> writes: # > A undocumented command... SET UICs >  > EXTREMLY Undocumented...  2    Also extreemly privileged and fairly dangerous.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 06:18:40 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>e) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?t6 Message-ID: <20020418061840.12359.qmail@gacracker.org>  , On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, sms@antinode.org wrote:   <snip>  F >   Now that the export restrictions have been relaxed, if there's anyF >great interest, I could package up complete kits instead of providingF >only the changed files.  I haven't looked closely at this stuff since0 >1999, but what could change in so short a time?  E If you've got a version there that supports 2048 bit keys I'd be very-5 interested in getting hold of it as a full build kit.      Doc. -- w6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:52:57 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org) Subject: Re: Free Encyption tool for VMS?s) Message-ID: <02041803525706@antinode.org>   = From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>nG > If you've got a version there that supports 2048 bit keys I'd be very,7 > interested in getting hold of it as a full build kit..  =    I believe that 2.6.anything_I_have peaks at 1024-bit keys.s  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)cC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)tG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:20:53 +0000 (UTC)r* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)6 Subject: Re: getting SIMH 2.9-6/VAX + VMS configured ?2 Message-ID: <a9mko5$nqr$1@wilson.uits.indiana.edu>  > In article <Xns91F3AA64B80F7acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>,$ 	Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes: > < > This is great but I'm probably missing something here %-). > E > I was able to compile it on Mac OS X (V10.1.3 w/Apple's cc version  < > gcc-932.1) and sort of figured out how to set up a minimalC >  configuration file (to cut down on typing when playing with it):. >  > LOAD -r KA655.BINe
 > SET CPU 64M  > SET DZ LINES=8 > ATTACH -a DZ 12000 > SET RQ0 RD54 > ATTACH RQ0 vaxsys.dske > ? > and I attempted to use the disk image I had from playing witha@ > picoVAX ( vaxsys.dsk above) though I'm not sure if that SHOULD= > really work %-) since that says it's emulating a KA630 (or m+ > something like that). But it didn't boot.Y >  > Details/questions below....  >  > A show config gets me: >  > sim> show conf > VAX simulator configurationt >  > CPU, 65536KB > TLB, 2 units
 >   TLB0, 8KWC
 >   TLB1, 8KW  > ROM, 128KB
 > NVR, 1KB > SYSD, 2 units 	 >   SYSD0 	 >   SYSD1d > QBA  > TTIp > TTOr > CSI  > CSO, not attachede > CLKI. > PTR, address=20001F68-20001F6F, not attached. > PTP, address=20001F68-20001F6F, not attached. > LPT, address=20001F4C-20001F4F, not attached( > RQ, address=20001468-2000146B, 4 units> >   RQ0, 159334KB, attached to vaxsys.dsk, write enabled, RD544 >   RQ1, 159334KB, not attached, write enabled, RD544 >   RQ2, 159334KB, not attached, write enabled, RD541 >   RQ3, 409KB, not attached, write enabled, RX50_( > RL, address=20001900-20001909, 4 units6 >   RL0, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize6 >   RL1, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize6 >   RL2, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize6 >   RL3, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize< > TS, address=20001550-20001553, not attached, write enabled> > DZ, address=20000040-20000047, lines=8, attached to 12000, 0 > connections  > ; > And if I try to actually boot from my system image I get:  >  > sim> b cpu >  >  > KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7n > ! > Performing normal system tests.hB > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed.
 >>>>b dua0 > (BOOT/R5:0 DUA0) >  >  >  >   2..y > -DUA0n
 >   1..0.. >  > ? > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk D > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SYSDUMP.DMP on System Disk successfully mapped < > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk> > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SAVEDUMP parameter not set to protect the > PAGEFILE.SYS eA >    OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V7.2     Major version id = 1 Minore >    version id = 0  > > > PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)  17-APR-2002= > %SYSINIT-E, error mounting system device, status = 000008C4n > # > And that's as far as it goes.... j > A > so my assumption (correct/incorrect) (Since the same disk images< > works with picoVAX on my PC)  is that it doesn't like that > installed version of VMS.  > C > So..... the next step... how do I take my VAX VMS 7.2 CD (not thetC > Hobbyest version but that shouldn't matter here) and read it with > > SIMH so I can install that ? Or do I have to create an image > of that CD ? And with what ?  5 well, you can point the emulator to the cdrom device:o  
 set rq1 rrd40l attach rq1 /dev/cdrome  ; and then boot the emulator and boot from dua1 (the real cd)y  1 or, you can use dd to extract the data to a file:-  " dd if=/dev/cdrom of=vaxvms072.img    and then  
 set rq1 rrd40r attach rq1 vaxvms072.img   > ? > And how do I create a disk image to install ONTO. The picoVAXrA > DOS/Windows based disk image creator ? Or is there another way d? > using Mac OSX ? Or is my littel iBook just never destined to r> > run a real operating system (even if just in emulation...) ? >   A simh will create the file as needed.  running these commands will  do it:   set rq0 ra82 attach rq0 my_ra82.img  G ra82 is a 622MB disk.  When you boot the emulator, use dua1 as the boot F device and the real cd (or cd image) will be accessed and you can then' do a restore onto the virtual disk dua06          9 > There are directions for getting NetBSD running on simhs > at:o > 5 > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/vax/emulator-howto.htmlg; >  but I couldn't find anything as helpful for VMS. Just a  " > "boot from the installation cd." > 
 > Thanks :-).      Good luck!     Brians     >  > -Andy-   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 08:05:55 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r; Subject: Re: HP To Build (Linux/IA64) Supercomputer For DoEo3 Message-ID: <eWwuI4uaqaQE@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  U In article <3CBD8F04.1030205@gregcagle.com>, Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes:n > Bob Ceculski wrote:2[ >> leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message news:<a9jbtb$l42$1@joe.rice.edu>.... >>  8 >>>http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020416S0003O >>>   InformationWeek > Linux > HP To Build Supercomputer For Energy Departmento >  > <snip> > A >> is this the same itanium that everyone here keeps badmouthing?  >   F    Yeah, but if it doesn't work out they're planning to substitute EV7F    instead.  Thats a secret, Mr. Hewlett isn't supposed to know.   8-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:53:14 +0100AT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxg& Message-ID: <3CBE7B6A.5040606@sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <3CBD802F.7020607@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:l >  >> >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >> >> > 4 >>>sure have ... everyone is trying to copy them ... >>>  >>>c >>0 >>I don't know of anyone trying to copy Galaxies >>name a vendor. >> >> >  > 	Copy Galaxy features? >  > 	Sun Microsystems. > ; > 	Dynamic Partitions.  High speed partition communication.o< > 	In both cases, poor knock-offs.  But when using Unix, you7 > 	do the best you can with what you have to work with.a >      Robc  < For Dynamic System Domains to have copied Galaxies Sun would7 have had to be in possession of a working time machine.a  < Dynamic system domains predate Galaxies by some considerable< margin even if you include your pre-announcments of Galaxies in the timeframe.c  9 Another well researched reply from the pen of Rob Young !i :):):)   RegardsB Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:56:38 +0100?T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux & Message-ID: <3CBE7C36.5050905@sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Rob Young wrote: >  >>        Copy Galaxy features? B >>        Dynamic Partitions.  High speed partition communication.C >>        In both cases, poor knock-offs.  But when using Unix, youC> >>        do the best you can with what you have to work with. >> >  > M > Was Digital/Compaq truly the first with Dynamic partitions ? What about IBM J > mainframes ? They've had the ability to partition since the early 1990s.    F No Digital/Compaq are in fact one of the last to do Dynamic Partitions+ hence the stupidity of Bob and Robs points.a   IBM=  
 LPAR using VM6 LPAR using MVS
 LPAR on AS400c   SunD   Dynamic System Domains     Regards.   Andrew Harrisong   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 09:28:23 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxD3 Message-ID: <SzT$EauRKEqC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <3CBE7B6A.5040606@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:a >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <3CBD802F.7020607@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes: >> 8 >>>y >>>Bob Ceculski wrote: >>>n >>>  >> c5 >>>>sure have ... everyone is trying to copy them ...w >>>> >>>> >>>n1 >>>I don't know of anyone trying to copy Galaxies  >>>name a vendor.j >>>n >>>  >> - >> 	Copy Galaxy features?  >> a >> 	Sun Microsystems.u >> t< >> 	Dynamic Partitions.  High speed partition communication.= >> 	In both cases, poor knock-offs.  But when using Unix, you 8 >> 	do the best you can with what you have to work with. >> n >  >  > Robn > > > For Dynamic System Domains to have copied Galaxies Sun would9 > have had to be in possession of a working time machine.  > > > Dynamic system domains predate Galaxies by some considerable> > margin even if you include your pre-announcments of Galaxies > in the timeframe.e > ; > Another well researched reply from the pen of Rob Young !  > :):):) >    	True.  ( 	Make that "Dynamic Domains done right."- 	Sun's version was and is inferior to Galaxy.h   			Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:28:58 +0100cT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!& Message-ID: <3CBEBC0A.9000709@sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:M   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CBBE7BC.6080404@sun.com>... >  >>Bill Todd wrote: >> >>= >>>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messagel) >>>news:3CBB15E6.3F7B6799@videotron.ca...T >>>s >>>t, >>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>> >>>>: >>>>>I have repeatedly given examples of how the GS series? >>>>>are not competitive based on Compaqs own public, publishedD% >>>>>benchmark results for the boxes.e >>>>>l >>>>> K >>>>Andrew, did Sun ever fix the problem with its memory going bezerk under.G >>>>certain circumstances (aka: all those ebay problems for instance) ?r >>>> >>>>H >>>Yes, IIRC they did - by disabling the cache in the affected series ofL >>>products, and by recently issuing a new series without the cache problem. >>>C >>>m >>? >>Sort of the ecache fix didn't involve disabling it instead we ; >>have introduced a new module which has a mirrored ecache.o >>C >>Turning the L2 cache off on a Ultra II would have had dissaterous- >>effects on performance.: >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrisoni >> >> > F > I don't think it would have mattered Andrew ... performance was poor > to begin with ...  >     H If you can come up with examples of where large Alpha server performanceH is better for commercial type workloads (Alpha Servers main market) thenB please do so. By Commercial type workloads I mean OLTP, DSS, Apps B Servers etc. By large I mean 8 CPU's or above. GS80/GS160/GS320 or% go back to GS140/8400 if you have to.m   If not put up or shut up.h   Regards  Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:10:36 GMTh( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>R Subject: Re: It isn't just Alpha/OpenVMS users complaining about lack of marketing: Message-ID: <gBzv8.9569$CH.2404@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:4qPlGZOHbU9E@eisner.encompasserve.org...eJ > In article <yJdv8.75$8Xd.71@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:i  J >    Which reminds all of the contract IBM won by bidding VMS on an Alpha.& >    Compaq had bid Tru64 on an Alpha.  # I'd like to hear more about this...u   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:42:19 +0000 (UTC)o From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Itanium Odditieso+ Message-ID: <a9m7ub$s60$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  c In article <9APgLx55qcWF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:oM >In article <a9hhk1$cam$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:, >> l% >> What seems odder is the statement   >>   >> "H >> Stranger still, Itanium has no integer  multiply function at all. AnyR >> multiplication, whether it's integer or floating-point, has to happen in the FPO >> MAC unit. Unfortunately, that means transferring a pair of integers from the2O >> general-purpose registers to the floating-point registers, then transferringhH >> the result back again. Fortunately, IA-64 includes a few instructions> >> specifically for this eventuality. What were they thinking? >> o >> " >m* >   So what?  Alpha has no integer divide. >o  L Dividing one integer by another and outputting an integer result is a fairly0 uncommon operation which by definition is lossy.  N Multiplying one integer by another and producing an integer output is a fairly/ common operation which is expected to be exact.S  J Placing a 64 bit integer into a floating point format in a 64 bit floatingM register will lose accuracy since the floating-point format consists of fixed_# length mantissa and exponent parts.T  L (Note. From the above quoted statement it is not 100% clear what is meant byJ transferring a pair of integers from the general-purpose registers to the O floating-point registers. Hence it could be that these floating-point registerseN are actually loaded with the normal integer representation and the FP-MAC unitM has been specially designed to actually perform normal integer multiplicationF	 on these.i )T      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:24:29 GMTC0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: Itanium OdditiesG8 Message-ID: <3cbef39d.509549613@proxy.news.easynews.com>  B On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:42:19 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  K >Placing a 64 bit integer into a floating point format in a 64 bit floating N >register will lose accuracy since the floating-point format consists of fixed$ >length mantissa and exponent parts.  D Itanium FP registers are 80 bits, not 64 bits.  They have 64 bits ofD mantissa and therefore will not lose accuracy doing a 64-bit integer	 multiply.a
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:44:01 GMT)* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Itanium Odditiesi) Message-ID: <3CBEF6AE.6010609@compaq.com>i   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:   L > Placing a 64 bit integer into a floating point format in a 64 bit floatingO > register will lose accuracy since the floating-point format consists of fixede% > length mantissa and exponent parts.. >   B The floating registers on Itanium are larger than 64-bits.  Their ! mantissas alone are 64-bits wide.   I You essentially pound the 64-bit integers into the mantissas of floating dD point numbers (there are instructions designed for that - they also A preset the exponent to the right value).  Then you use the "xma" pG instruction will is a fixed-point floating multiply (I'm talking about dG using floating multiply to implement integer multiply).  You then grab t$ the mantissa back out of the result.         --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadero   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 06:09:19 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)J Subject: Just another big bug in windoze ... don't touch that back button!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204180509.520b40de@posting.google.com>   = from www.worldnetdaily.com ... your daily windoze bug report!f  " Another Big MS Browser Hole Found  By Michelle Delio       . 11:41 a.m. April 17, 2002 PDT F Internet Explorer users who click their browser's back button open the4 Windows operating system to a malicious hack attack.  C When users hit the back button on Explorer's toolbar, the browser'skB security settings for the "Internet" zone can be bypassed, and theA browser will automatically execute malicious code embedded into a( site's URL.8   C The problem is caused by what can politely be described as a design D flaw in Explorer. When a Web page fails to load, Explorer displays aD standard error message. This message is set to operate in the "LocalE Computer Zone" security setting, which by default allows scripting to: run automatically.  D Any code inserted in the original URL is handled as if it comes fromB the same security zone as the last URL viewed. So a URL containingF malicious JavaScript that might be blocked by default if a user visits@ the site directly, will be automatically triggered when the user presses the back button.  A Many users hit the back button when a Web page fails to load in a  timely manner.  E The exploit was discovered by Andreas Sandblad, a Swedish engineeringc@ student. Sandblad said he notified Microsoft of the problem lastF November. He provided additional information to Microsoft on March 25.  E "Originally, I was only able to produce the same result when the user E pressed the refresh button," Sandblad said in an e-mail. "I contactedaF Microsoft about it in November and they confirmed the problem. On Feb.? 28, I received mail from them saying that they didn't think thed# problem was serious enough to fix."   D "Later, I e-mailed Microsoft with additional information, describingD how it was possible to trigger the same flaw with the back button. AE couple of days later I received a mail explaining that they might fixYE the problem in a future service pack. I told them that I was planning A to go public with the vulnerability but that I could wait if theyeE could convince me that they were going to fix the issue in reasonableo" time. They didn't respond at all."  A A Microsoft spokesman said the Microsoft Security Response CenteraF thoroughly investigated Sandblad's report "and determined that because= the proposed exploit scenario is dependent upon specific user C interaction as a prerequisite, it does not meet our definition of a4 security vulnerability."  B "The proposed exploit scenario requires the attacker to compel theE users to click on the back button while visiting a malicious website.uD This scenario does not constitute a viable threat to users following. standard best practices," the spokesman added.  B Some users were surprised to find out that Microsoft believes that@ using the back button is not a standard, best security practice.  D "Why the hell did they put a back button into the browser toolbar if= they didn't want me to use it?" Martin Montez, a stockbroker,.D wondered. "I'm one of the few people in the world who actually readsF the manuals and there's no warning anywhere that using the back button could compromise your system."  D Microsoft's spokesman said that the company "remains vigilant in ourC commitment to keeping users information safe and will be addressingO# this issue in an upcoming release."s  : Sandblad said he didn't discover the exploit by accident.   E "I have been researching issues regarding the JavaScript protocol foroE a long time and I found that using the history list together with theMF back button was a nice way of exploiting it. Often you find flaws thatC are hard to take advantage of. Mostly, too much user interaction isn needed. This one is easy."  F Sandblad tested the exploit with Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows 2000C and XP systems. Further tests by Wired News showed that the exploitVE also works with various combinations of Internet Explorer 6.0 and 5.5 5 on computers running Windows 2000, NT 5.0, XP and 98.M  D The exploit does not work on Macs with current versions of Explorer,A or in Mozilla or Opera browsers. Some tested versions of Netscapee( returned a JavaScript error and crashed.  B Some antiviral programs, such as McAfee and F-Secure, were able to@ block the exploit, and also displayed a "Trojan" or "Code Event" alert.  A A Slashdot reader posted a test that allows users to see if their $ system is vulnerable to the exploit.  F Sandblad posted details of the exploit on the BugTraq security mailing list on Wednesday.  ? In his post, Sandblad suggested the usual fix for browser woes;iE disable active scripting. He also noted that users could choose nevert to use the back button.i  C Programmer Mikal Zabor also suggested that Windows users, those who?E "must run Explorer," should consider installing the Windows operatingl) system anywhere but their main (C) drive.a  B "Many exploits assume things about your system. They assume you'reC running Microsoft products, and they assume your system is on the CnC drive with the default install. If you move the system off the main = drive, or set up partitions, you make it harder for maliciouso	 hackers."p  D Sandblad also said he is still waiting for Microsoft to fix the last) vulnerability he reported to the company.b  F "The patch they released in the bulletin MS02-015 'Cookie-based Script: Execution' only fixed part of the problem," Sandblad said.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 07:59:21 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)4G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)o3 Message-ID: <rAGRfs4o+bpA@eisner.encompasserve.org>G  d In article <a9k7at$48t9$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > F > Of course, these days there really isn't much of a need for a manualB > transmission.  I only have one because a sports car *should* ;-)  G    And I'm going to look for one to teach my kids on.  Maybe I can push F    my technique to 60K this time.  I do not plan to drive it around inA    rush hour traffic.  I think I'll look toward hybrids for that.e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 09:41:13 -0700 From: hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy)-5 Subject: linking with pthread library for C++ programr= Message-ID: <2c0966c2.0204180841.5db8dd37@posting.google.com>s   Hi:o  =   I am trying to link a c++ program with Pthread library. Andt: everything was going wee until i notice that i need to useF cxx/name=(short,as_is) options in my program in order to make some JNI call. (that's another topic)  B   Anyway, to make the long story short.  Here is a simple program.     Test.cpp     #include <stdio.h> #include <pthread.h>    int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {>   	pthread_mutex_t mutex;t  " 	pthread_mutex_init(&mutex, NULL);   	pthread_mutex_lock(&mutex);   	for (int i = 0; i++; i < 100) 	{ 	  printf("looping");. 	}   	pthread_mutex_unlock(&mutex);   	pthread_mutex_destroy(&mutex);.  
 	return 0; }U  C The program basically do nothing but print out "looping" 100 times. C It locks and unlocks the mutex, but it's irrelevant since i have nou: threa running.  anyway, here is the result when i compile.    E $ cxx/prefix=all /float=ieee /ieee=denorm /names=(short,as_is) test.ce $ cxxlink test,case/opt-& %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 4 undefined symbols:F %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         int pthread_mutex_destroy(__pthread_mutex_t *) C C %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         int pthread_mutex_init(__pthread_mutex_t *,e const __pthr ead_mutexattr_t *) CE %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         int pthread_mutex_lock(__pthread_mutex_t *) CiE %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         int pthread_mutex_unlock(__pthread_mutex_t *)  Co& %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol int) pthread_mutex_lock(__pthread_mutex_t *) C   referencedt)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000040>         in module TEST fileH3 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SCHEN.CORBRA.OPENVMS.TEST]TEST.OBJ;2 & %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol int) pthread_mutex_init(__pthread_mutex_t *, ci* onst __pthread_mutexattr_t *) C referenced)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000050y         in module TEST file 3 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SCHEN.CORBRA.OPENVMS.TEST]TEST.OBJ;2t& %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol int) pthread_mutex_destroy(__pthread_mutex_t *  ) C referenced)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000070n         in module TEST file63 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SCHEN.CORBRA.OPENVMS.TEST]TEST.OBJ;2y& %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol int) pthread_mutex_unlock(__pthread_mutex_t *) 
  C referenced0)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000080v         in module TEST fileR3 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SCHEN.CORBRA.OPENVMS.TEST]TEST.OBJ;2 	 $ *.cpp;*iF %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  ( $ type case.opt                         ( sys$common:[syslib]PTHREAD$RTL.EXE/share   I have also try to have   / sys$common:[syslib]CMA$OPEN_LIB_SHR.EXE/share  3  ? in the case.opt instead.  but i received the same problems when_ linking.   Here is my system info  , $ cxx/ver                                   , Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1, $ cxxlink/ver                               , Compaq C++ CXXLINK V6.3-020                     " Can anyone give me a hand on this? Thank you very much.     Sammya   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 05:44:17 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Major Virus Alert!  Better get on VMS now or bye bye!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204180444.7e0cafd3@posting.google.com>   @ this is from www.nwfusion.com ... looks like viruses are getting? ready to explode every unix/linux/windoze box around, and therey? will not be an easy way to stop them ... unless you are on vms!g    7 New threats force intrusion-detection vendors to rearm.n By Ellen Messmer Network World, 04/15/02c  D Intrusion-detection systems work just fine when it comes to spottingE and clamping down on attacks that have been seen before, but securitytC experts warn that a new breed of stealthy network-attack techniques1- could run roughshod over today's IDS devices.o  B Experts are increasingly concerned about newer threats such as theC so-called polymorphic buffer overflow, in which a person alters theBC attack's shell code or encrypts it to slip by an IDS. Some analystsU@ contend that signature-based detection systems are doomed unless% vendors adapt to changing conditions.m  A "The IDS vendors will have to graft on anomaly and behavior-basedv? detection or they will die," says Ed Skoudis, vice president ofo2 ethical hacking at consultancy Predictive Systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:24:44 +1000e= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>cB Subject: Re: Major Virus Alert!  Better get on VMS now or bye bye!" Message-ID: <vehm9a.24m.ln@really>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei7 news:d7791aa1.0204180444.7e0cafd3@posting.google.com...rB > this is from www.nwfusion.com ... looks like viruses are gettingA > ready to explode every unix/linux/windoze box around, and thereeA > will not be an easy way to stop them ... unless you are on vms!f >d  G Who the hell are you, Bob ? Are you some sort of magician ? You must behI getting close to it to be able to infer what you wrote, above,  from whatd you included, below.   Ooroot	 Mark F...m >e9 > New threats force intrusion-detection vendors to rearm.' > By Ellen Messmer > Network World, 04/15/02r >cF > Intrusion-detection systems work just fine when it comes to spottingG > and clamping down on attacks that have been seen before, but security E > experts warn that a new breed of stealthy network-attack techniques / > could run roughshod over today's IDS devices.t >BD > Experts are increasingly concerned about newer threats such as theE > so-called polymorphic buffer overflow, in which a person alters thewE > attack's shell code or encrypts it to slip by an IDS. Some analysts1B > contend that signature-based detection systems are doomed unless' > vendors adapt to changing conditions.i >gC > "The IDS vendors will have to graft on anomaly and behavior-basedpA > detection or they will die," says Ed Skoudis, vice president ofn4 > ethical hacking at consultancy Predictive Systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:21:51 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: Many thanks to Island Computers8 Message-ID: <ce7tbu0tmhblpmrvj4q9s9t75a17htad7l@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:37:33 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU. ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:  H >Dave Turner at Island sent me a new motherboard and disk controller perL >warranty even though the warranty had expired. I just had to supply a FedExH >account number to get the parts the next day.  Now I'm back on the air.  C I've often thought it a pity that Rich Marcello couldn't have hireduE Dave Turner as head of Alphaserver marketing. I believe he even sells># a number of systems back to Compaq!e   >lO >This is customer service above and beyond contractual obligation, and I reallyo) >appreciate it.  I really recommend them.U >r >-- Alan >t >aP >===============================================================================1 > Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUeN > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056N > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210P >===============================================================================   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 05:35:57 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: Many thanks to Island Computers= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204180435.390c093f@posting.google.com>t   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0C9BF.051E5BB1@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... > VMSers --n > 9 > This is an unsolicited testimonial to Island Computers.  > N > A little over a year ago, I bought one of the PC164-LX based systems for useL > at home.  (It's been the testbed system for the webserver book, since the J > DOE frowns on its systems being used for non-governmental purposes.)  ItK > arrived with VMS pre-installed; I just had to plug in the EDU license ande > I was in business. > P > It ran flawlessly until last Tuesday, when it suddenly died.  The twelve-monthO > warranty had expired two weeks before.  I urgently needed the system to work.4 > I > Dave Turner at Island sent me a new motherboard and disk controller permM > warranty even though the warranty had expired. I just had to supply a FedEx I > account number to get the parts the next day.  Now I'm back on the air.i > P > This is customer service above and beyond contractual obligation, and I really* > appreciate it.  I really recommend them. > 	 > -- Alanf >  > Q > ===============================================================================.2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eO >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-02100Q > ===============================================================================   > same here ... 12 months warranty on all alphas ... great boxes   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:00:20 -0400a# From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com>e3 Subject: Memory Sale - DS20/DS20e/ES40 1 & 2GB Kits / Message-ID: <ubtgchp7q1qb93@news.supernews.com>    In stock in quantity    B  Island  IC-MS340-EA DS20/DS20e 1GB Memory Kit  (4 x 256MB)   $499  Kingston's Price $758L (http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator/PartsInfo.asp?ktcpartno=KTV-MS	 340/1024)e  0 IC-MS610-DA ES40 1GB Memory Kit (4 x 256MB) $499 Kingston's Price $758gL (http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator/PartsInfo.asp?ktcpartno=KTV-MS	 610/1024)   8 Island IC-MS610-EA ES40 2GB Memory Kit (4 x 512MB)  $995 Kingston's Price $1658L (http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator/PartsInfo.asp?ktcpartno=KTV-MS	 610/2048)a    H Lifetime warranty from Island Computers (advanced replacement by 12:00PM@ Next day domestic and within 24 Hours from our stockroom in  EU)  D Payment: Visa/Mastercard/Cheque or Island Account credit terms apply     -- David B Turner	 Sales Dpt5 Island Computers US Corporationr 2700 Gregory Streetc	 Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404e Tel: 912 447 6622i Fax: 912 201 0096o sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htmo   We sell Alpha's !h* All emails are checked for Virus and Worms   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:36:26 GMTu, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>0 Subject: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq8 Message-ID: <eAvv8.3$4p1.144455@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3CBE1816.53AF3E0@videotron.ca...s .d .g . I > Where it will get interesting is whether HP decides to dump DECdocumenta andr8 > force the VMS folks to port the documentation to Word.  I No chance. It would fritter away hundreds of thousands of dollars (we areuI talking about hundreds of books, say one writer-week per book - that's anoB average) on porting to a barely functional, arbitrary, and totallyL inappropriate 'system'. Any manager who proposed this sort of waste would be+ right-sized before you can say 'euphemism'.t   br   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:23:21 +0010n% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aui0 Subject: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq5 Message-ID: <01KGPZT7X2FM000NRC@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Bob Knowles wrote,  ; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messager& >news:3CBE1816.53AF3E0@videotron.ca... >. >. >.J >> Where it will get interesting is whether HP decides to dump DECdocument >and9 >> force the VMS folks to port the documentation to Word.u >tJ >No chance. It would fritter away hundreds of thousands of dollars (we areJ >talking about hundreds of books, say one writer-week per book - that's anC >average) on porting to a barely functional, arbitrary, and totallycM >inappropriate 'system'. Any manager who proposed this sort of waste would beo, >right-sized before you can say 'euphemism'.  O My last bland comment to your previous mail gave my opinion on word processing s	 programs.   N When you say "No chance" above, wasn't it DECDocument that was intended to be B killed by Digital until they found it was the source of all their O documentation?  Their documentation format has changed very much, so what hope pC still for DECDocument?  They're happy to kill whatsoever they want e0 product-wise.  Well, kill or put on maintenance.  K Is everyone supposed to now use Word?  Its presentation seems to change as uN regurlarly as the day of the week that Bill has his periods.  A colleague who O maintains PC versions of our manuals can no longer reproduce our documentation iO since a corporate upgrade of Windows -- the "experts" cannot help her either.  eJ On VMS I maintain on-line program documentation in .HLP and a "glossy" in  LaTex.  I What is the "industry standard"?  Word?  Which changes as aforementioned.a   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:05:02 GMTw# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o0 Subject: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaqD Message-ID: <2wzv8.726$Gpn.511@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3CBE1816.53AF3E0@videotron.ca...rK > > For sure we will hear all about the thousands of layoffs. And probably,t asG > > is typical in mass layoff situations, the wrong people will be madec
 > > redundants > I > I think that assuming VMS survives, the VMS and Tandem folks are prettyr safe$ > since there is no overlap with HP. >o  I If you believe that normal-course business decisions are irrational, thenhK wait until you see what goes on in a merger situation. Having lived throughrH 4 large mergers (on the surviving side each time), I can assure you thatK nothing is necessarily rational in a merger situation. The wrong people are0J often either fired or discouraged enough by the decision-making process orI the roadmap ahead of them that they say to themselves, 'Life is too shortn) for this kind of shit' and they too walk.N  F Sometimes it's the older experienced, the ones with the 'institutionalH memory' that are forced out because they 'cost too much'; sometimes it'sJ these same gray-beards, who have their mortgages paid-off and enough moneyI in the bank to be able to say to the new product manager, 'You're f*cking F this up', and then get themselves turfed out because they aren't 'teamJ players'. Sometimes there's absolutely no logic whatsoever in who winds upL being fired and who stays. Sometimes they bring managers who are clearly outL of their depth in a particular area into a new area of responsibility simply+ because, 'We have to find a place for Joe'.   L I once saw a case where an individual who had crossed swords with an EVP, onI matter of what amounted to a legitimate and honest difference of opinion,"L got fired even though every one of his superiors up the line went to bat forL him, ...even the President of the company wanted to reverse the decision butI he said, 'I can't go against my partner on this even though I'd like to.' J It didn't matter that it cost the company about 15x this person's salary +L bonus in the resulting lawsuit, legal costs, and lost business opportunities resulting from his firing.  I People walk the halls wondering when the knife will be plunged into theiraI back, wondering if their 'package' will be good enough to last them untiliL they find their next job. Productivity is definitely not up. And most of theI time the advice, 'Keep your head down and work' isn't good enough becausepI the decision that you are the next to go is usually one or two levels up,s@ made by people who don't know you, your work, your insight, yourI contributions, and has already been made in advance. And even if they didgK know about you, it doesn't matter when they decide to close down your wholee- division or product line. You're out of work.m  H Rest assured that if the Delaware court affirms the merger vote, Carly &E Curly will be wading through the ranks and file with scimitars wavingiG ruthlessly in an attempt to cut costs as they say that could during thetL merger debate. It will all happen VERY quickly. Their jobs depend on it...so do their bonuses.8   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:26:18 GMTw( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>0 Subject: Re: Merger Vote Results,  R.I.P. DECpaq+ Message-ID: <3CBF01FA.53767E5E@pacbell.net>+   John Smith wrote:d > D > http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1019076152284521120.djm,00.html > 8 > H-P Says Margin of Victory Was About 45 Million SharesM > But Dissident Director Walter Hewlett Says He Won't Give Up Legal Challengeo+ > A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP  > L > Hewlett-Packard Co. said the preliminary tally of the vote on the proposedJ > acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp. shows that H-P shareowners voted inJ > favor of the merger by a margin of about 45 million shares, or about 3%.M > Reacting to the announcement, dissident H-P director Walter Hewlett said hee5 > will press on with his legal challenge to the deal.i > F > The company said votes "For" the merger totaled 837.9 million. VotesA > "Against" the merger totaled 792.6 million. The company said anhN > "insignificant number" of votes cast remain unresolved. H-P said shareownersL > not affiliated with the Hewlett and Packard families and their foundations5 > voted for the merger by a margin of roughly 2-to-1.t > C > The tally was prepared by the independent inspectors of election.n > J > In prepared remarks, H-P Chairman and Chief Executive Carly Fiorina saidL > that the company is "gratified" by the results and added: "We are eager toK > put this difficult period behind us and look forward to doing business ase > the new H-P."r > N > Earlier this week, H-P revealed it has been subpoenaed by the Manhattan U.S.L > Attorney's office and informally contacted by the SEC regarding the CompaqK > deal. Also, Deutsche Asset Management, in its first public comments abouttL > its involvement, said it made an "independent judgment" on the contentious > deal.$ > K > How Deutsche Asset Management voted its 25 million H-P shares is of greatRL > interest because H-P's proposed purchase of Compaq has been embroiled in aI > nasty proxy fight with Mr. Hewlett, son of an H-P co-founder. After thefL > March 19 H-P shareholder vote on the matter, H-P claimed it had won enoughH > votes, based on a preliminary count, to approve the deal. Mr. Hewlett,% > however, refused to concede defeat.f > G > In late March, Mr. Hewlett filed a lawsuit seeking to invalidate somefK > shareholder votes in H-P's purchase of Compaq. In particular, Mr. HewlettWL > alleged that H-P improperly used corporate assets to coerce Deutsche AssetN > Management into switching about 17 million of its H-P shares in favor of theK > Compaq acquisition. H-P has denied it did anything improper. A trial overn# > the lawsuit is set for next week.d > N If this statement is true, it won't mattter about Hewlett's lawsuit. SwitchingN 17 million shares to NO will still be 11 million short of stopping the merger.    Bye-bye DEC...bye-bye Compaq...?   <snip> -- X   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco?   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 07:57:02 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n4 Subject: Re: More proof EV8 will live in itanium ...3 Message-ID: <OEpkJrxcB+5n@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  \ In article <3CBDBE55.8C47DEAC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Dave Gudewicz wrote: >> oN >> I think some of Alpha (todays or perhaps what would have been) will live in >> future versions of the IPF. > N > If GM hires designers from Ferrari, does this mean that GM trucks will startM > to look like Ferraris ? So, they may get a trim here and there to make themw1 > look less ugly, but they won't become Ferraris.c  D    When Ford bought Jaguar people were not hoping Fords would become@    more like Jags, they were hoping that Jags would pick up someC    Ford-like reliability.  Of course, Ford has had some problems ofnE    thier own in reliability.  Jags did pick up some common componentsc?    from Ford, but Fords and Jags still are very much different.p  ?    Both VW and GM hired outside designers and produced somewhatsA    different products.  VW got the Karhman-Gia (sp?), and GM got      the Kammback Vega.a  E    I don't think the IPF instruction set will change to look anythings?    like the Alpha instruction set, not do I expect to see otheryB    commonality in the architecture that software can see, like the>    addition of the missing page protection modes.  I do expect1    the chip design will have common "components".r   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 02:17:25 -0700% From: mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman)n Subject: OpenVMS BOOT CONTESTe= Message-ID: <1d08b916.0204180117.52cba852@posting.google.com>i  7 Would anyone like to give some guideance on the matter?   = http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.htmle   Regardst   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:55:03 -0500u( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS BOOT CONTESTb2 Message-ID: <a9mj7n$rud$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>  E On 18 Apr 2002 02:17:25 -0700, mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman) wrote:s  8 >Would anyone like to give some guideance on the matter? > > >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.html >w  E Well, seeing as I want to win....  How about you enter something likee 18-aug-2103 14:32....  :-)   >Regards >a >Mark    Dave Harrold  N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204sI                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634sG Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999a 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:57:41 +0000e2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS BOOT CONTESTt4 Message-ID: <20020418135741.B20726@eisenschmidt.org>   --tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabler  L I emailed Sue about this. I have no chance of winning because the year is h=
 ard coded.  ! I was voting for 17-NOV-1858  =20t  F Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Mark Bowman (mb301@hotmail.com) Wrote:9 > Would anyone like to give some guideance on the matter?p >=20? > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.htmle >=20	 > Regards' >=20 > Mark   --=20'/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>l6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2   --tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye' Content-Type: application/pgp-signaturen Content-Disposition: inline=   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----= Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)n* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE8vtDVH5fmozfjvvIRAtPIAKCA/fvIdMNEtNPd23AC+t9USNuKWwCg47KF 8wEkhaww5BEAlCdNXG2oiyM= =rJ4h  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----3   --tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:24:06 +0100=( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: OpenVMX) Message-ID: <3CBEACD6.6E7B0B2D@127.0.0.1>@   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:) > ? > They are, see :  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/index.html.  
 Thank you.  G > > I guess the slides from the London and Vienna events will be online F > > sometime, watch out for the one titled "VMS COE & UNIX Portability > > Initiatives"   This is the one:5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/unixportability.htmuD NOTE THE LINK IN THE MAIN SITE ABOVE IS WRONG! (Too used to spelling UNIX without an i).    OpenVMX anyone? :-)t (Thanks to my boss for that) --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comg   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:22:54 GMTt/ From: mrr@acer.reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad)s2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it3 Message-ID: <2Dtv8.5$nB5.413@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>e  G In article <a9jkpn$eua$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:e+ >In article <3CBCCD86.539EDBB9@nyc.rr.com>,n0 >   Patrick Sweeney <psweeney@nyc.rr.com> wrote: ><snip>  > 0 >>Digital failed to realize that improvement in % >>personal computers would cause themN; >>to compete with "minicomputers" that would seal its doom.e ><snip>n >o> >This wasn't it at all.  Those of us on the -10 had no problem? >using local computers to access mainframes and we were waiting=@ >for the day when we could have a PDP-10 on our desktop at home.= >We just never thought that the technology would get small ase >fast as it did.    > In late 1983, as the news about the Jupiter demise was gettingB abundantly clear; we had some bets about when our personal systemsF would have the equivalent power of a PDP10 (specifically, #2419). ThisE particular PDP20 ran TOPS20, i think it had version 5 at that time, ,-3 three RP06'es, two RP07's, and 2 megawords of core.2  D There was a pretty wide consensus that it would take around 10 yearsB for the hardware part. There was disaggreement about the software;F some claimedit would take another 5 to get the software roughly right,= and that after another 5 it would be available as a wearable.7  H In 1993 (10 years) we were just about to move up from 80486'es (32 bit, = approx. 40x a PDP10 in cpu speed), typical installations had  C 8 to 16 megabytes of memory, 2G disks were appearing, 1G was prettyu) normal. I.e. the prediction went through.0  F Linux and BSD were still extremely rare, and PC software was a glaring0 problem.  This prediction also was true, IMNSHO.  E In 1998 (15 years) the Linux and BSD revolutions were both well underaA way, and their power began to reach the levels of Tops20. (Bash, yC proper paging, networks, X, etc.) I'd say this one went in as well.V  D In preparation for 2003 I plan to put together a Palm running Tops20F under an emulator, with a reconstruction of the environment of #2419, D as a little reminder of some predictions that was pretty well on the mark.o   -- mrr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:02:37 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it@ Message-ID: <hcuv8.98279$%8.8101170@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageR: news:32tv8.24472$PV.2951124@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >r7 > "Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in message . > news:a9lgi9$303r$1@citadel.in.taronga.com...   ...   D > > What was killer was *abundant* *cheap* 32-bit systems with ample	 software.  >rH > In 1981?  Could you name them?  While there may have been cheap 32-bitI > systems that early (though even that seems just a tad earlier than theyu wereH > generally available), claiming that their software competed in any way with > DEC's seems a real stretch.,  K Note that I'm not claiming that *no* micro 32-bit systems were available intI 1981, just questioning whether cheap but significant ones were.  I fondly-E recall an expedition in the middle of one night in 1980, IIRC, to seeaL Apollo's OS page over its network the first day they got that feature up and running.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:04:23 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it& Message-ID: <3CBE7E07.4000201@sun.com>   Peter da Silva wrote:l  . > In article <3CBE1428.1716DA70@jetnet.ab.ca>,/ > Ben Franchuk  <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:  >  >>Peter da Silva wrote:a >>C >>>It doesn't matter which killer micro was the winner, we all kneweB >>>that the mini was going to be the loser.  If it hadn't been theC >>>386 it would have been the 68020, or if not the 68020 the Z80000bD >>>or the NS32032. But if it took you until the 80386 came out to beD >>>worried about the killer micros, you weren't worrying nearly soon
 >>>enough. >>>s > 9 >>Still busy here building the KILLER 12/24 bit CPU here.oA >>Who knows it may even reach PDP-8 speeds. In hindsight DEC alsohF >>seems to have had no middle ground for software as well as hardware. >>D >>From what little I have seen the concept of "Personal Software" as > G >>well as hardware was a hard thing to grasp.DOS may be the most crappyu> >>OS built but in the beginning it was cheap and easy to port. >> > F > DOS wasn't quite as crappy as CP/M-80, surprisingly, but CP/M-86 wasG > pretty good, and CP/M was *much* easier to port. It's too bad DigitalaI > Research hadn't been quicker to respond when Bill Gates told IBM to seeeF > if DR could do the OS for the PC. Boy he must have been happy to seeJ > them show up again after he realised the opportunity he'd let slip away. >     E Sadly this isn't quite what happened. IBM approached Digital Research @ who send them to Bill. Bill didn't have anything to sell IBM butA a small Intel systems manufacturer that BG knew of called SeattlegB Microsystems had something called QDOS, (Quick and Dirty OperatingA System). Bill quick as a flash said Microsoft are your men to the1= IBM team, did a deal with SMS, changed the headers on QDOS tou MSDOS and the rest is history.  A That and IBM forgetting to include their rights to the IP for thee* OS being provided to them in the contract.   Regardsa Andrew Harrisonv    h   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 18 Apr 02 07:50:20 GMTi From: jmfbahciv@aol.come2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it+ Message-ID: <a9m9rj$svl$2@bob.news.rcn.net>n   In article tE <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204171138050.29233-100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>, /    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:i- >On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:o( >> Those of us on the -10 had no problemA >> using local computers to access mainframes and we were waitingeB >> for the day when we could have a PDP-10 on our desktop at home. >iK >So, Barb, now that it is quite feasible, when are you going to do it?  :-)   @ <grin>  I don't have to.  There are a number of 'guys' doing theD work.  And there are other guys doing my 1984 proposal which doesn't< force all users to learn a new operating system just because; the architecture has changed.  If I was really going to runh; a biz that built a desktop PDP-10, I'd get Mike to do it.  r > F >> PCs in everybody's home was a huge main frame business opportunity. >> Hint:  Compuserve.m >mG >Which, of course, used PDP-10s with their own TOPS-10 variant for manyr >years.o  @ The imporant point here is that we shipped everything one needed= to modify it all.  We never figured out how to "support" such = things but we certainly did not make things so difficult thatg9 the hardware customer couldn't do his own thing.  This ist? what is rankling my craw.  How in the hell is the computing biz,@ going to train the newbies such that great strides can be leaped3 if the biz doesn't furnish the toys to play with?  i  : Unix is an answer.  But I would prefer to have examples of< other approaches to computing out in the world for people to; play with.  Every OS has its strengths and every OS has itse; weaknesses.  These were due to the philosophy of the OS andh2 what flavor of computing it was trying to provide.  : I am appalled at the ignorance of timesharing knowledge.  ; Good grief, even though I'm the only one using this system,u: I should be able to have it print and chew gum at the same' time without giving me the blue finger.e     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2002 12:03:33 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it1 Message-ID: <a9mcml$oao$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>l  @ In article <32tv8.24472$PV.2951124@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: I >I can assure you that by 1983 - 4 the 'industry-standard' PC package wasdK >IBM-compatible:  we were running up against that hard trying to sell Pros.a  K I'm not talking about 1983, though. I'm not even talking about this or that I technical detail. I'm talking about a trend that SHOULD have been obvious-G to DEC a couple of years before that. What I mean by "the S-100 bus wasbJ the industry standard" is that it's not a matter of "the industry standardL that makes X a winner" but "the success of X makes it an industry standard".  M >> What was killer was *abundant* *cheap* 32-bit systems with ample software.W   >In 1981?  Could you name them?i  M They didn't exist in 1981. But what *did* exist in 1981 was enough to make itSM obvious that they *would* exist within a few years. We'd already been throughaH the same process many times by then, and DEC had been part of one of the previous waves.   ' >While there may have been cheap 32-bit M >systems that early (though even that seems just a tad earlier than they wereeL >generally available), claiming that their software competed in any way with >DEC's seems a real stretch.  K I didn't claim that their software competed with DEC's then. I claimed that L what existed then was enough to be ringing warning bells at DEC, and that ifJ they'd responded when the 80386 showed up it still may have been too late.   >> That wasn't the race.  3 >Exactly.  Which is why the 386 was the real worry.h  K By the late '80s, yes. But it wasn't released until October 1985. It didn'tnL really have much impact on mass-market systems for a year or two after that:N people were still mostly buying 286-based systems until the 386SX came out and% you could build a 386 for 286 prices.u  ; But that's *years* after they should have started worrying.i  I Again, by NCC '82 it was obvious what was going to happen, even if it was 2 too early to tell what product it was going to be.  * The 80386 was the bullet that finally hit.  ) But the 68000 was the first warning shot.n   -- ,@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)t   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2002 12:15:43 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it1 Message-ID: <a9mddf$ouq$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>o  & In article <3CBE7E07.4000201@sun.com>,V Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >Peter da Silva wrote:G >> DOS wasn't quite as crappy as CP/M-80, surprisingly, but CP/M-86 wastH >> pretty good, and CP/M was *much* easier to port. It's too bad DigitalJ >> Research hadn't been quicker to respond when Bill Gates told IBM to seeG >> if DR could do the OS for the PC. Boy he must have been happy to see K >> them show up again after he realised the opportunity he'd let slip away.n  F >Sadly this isn't quite what happened. IBM approached Digital Research >who send them to Bill.,  ? It's amazing the number of different stories that have grown upaC about this incident. The most entertaining one is that Gary Kildally= was out flying his private plane when IBM came to call... butl@ apparently that line was something his wife used as an excuse to? stall the people from IBM... it didn't happen. Here's what did:o  7 http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa033099.htm:rG | The History of the  MS-DOS Operating Systems Microsoft - Tim Patersona | - Gary Kildall |  | By Mary Bellis | E | "I don't think it's that significant." - Tandy president John Roache- | on IBM's entry into the microcomputer fielda | A | On August 12, 1981, IBM introduced its new revolution in a box,oD | the "Personal Computer" complete with a brand new operating systemE | from Microsoft and a 16-bit computer operating system called MS-DOSt | 1.0. | > | 	Operating System: /n./ [techspeak] (Often abbreviated `OS')> | 	The foundation software of a machine, of course; that which= | 	schedules tasks, allocates storage, and presents a defaultJ= | 	interface to the user between applications. The facilitiesoA | 	an operating system provides and its general design philosophyd; | 	exert an extremely strong influence on programming style = | 	and on the technical cultures that grow up around its host % | 	machines. - The Jargon Dictionary*s |  | D | In 1980, IBM first approached Bill Gates and Microsoft, to discussD | the state of home computers and Microsoft products. Gates gave IBMB | a few ideas on what would make a great home computer, among them@ | to have Basic written into the ROM chip. Microsoft had alreadyB | produced several versions of Basic for different computer systemB | beginning with the Altair, so Gates was more than happy to write | a version for IBM. | > | As for an operating system (OS) for the new computers, sinceC | Microsoft had never written an operating system before, Gates hadbC | suggested that IBM investigate an OS called CP/M (Control ProgramgC | for Microcomputers), written by Gary Kildall of Digital Research.nH | Kindall had his Ph.D. in computers and had written the most successfulD | operating system of the time, selling over 600,000 copies of CP/M,' | his OS set the standard at that time.e | A | IBM tried to contact Kildall for a meeting, executives met with B | Mrs. Kildall who refused to sign a non-disclosure agreement. IBM@ | soon returned to Bill Gates and gave Microsoft the contract to@ | write the new operating system, one that would eventually wipe# | Kildall's CP/M out of common use.. | D | The "Microsoft Disk Operating System" or MS-DOS was based on QDOS,C | the "Quick and Dirty Operating System" written by Tim Paterson of.A | Seattle Computer Products, for their prototype Intel 8086 based  | computer.  | C | QDOS was based on Gary Kildall's CP/M, Paterson had bought a CP/MeB | manual and used it as the basis to write his operating system inA | six weeks, QDOS was different enough from CP/M to be consideredt | legal. | B | Microsoft bought the rights to QDOS for $50,000, keeping the IBM/ | deal a secret from Seattle Computer Products.- | D | Gates then talked IBM into letting Microsoft retain the rights, toD | market MS DOS separate from the IBM PC project, Gates proceeded to. | make a fortune from the licensing of MS-DOS. | @ | In 1981, Tim Paterson quit Seattle Computer Products and found | employment at Microsoft. | 1 | "Life begins with a disk drive." - Tim Patersone |  -- u@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:22:58 +0100=T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it& Message-ID: <3CBEBAA2.4040802@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message > <3CBD857C.70704@sun.com>.... >  >> >>: >>Ironic since Freddy boy is the person who seems to think= >>that ad-hominem attacks are some form of technical debatingt >>point. >>I >>"Keep prattling on SunWipe(tm).  You appear to not be able to find your." >>arse with both hands and a map." >>$ >>This being Freddys latest attempt. >> >> >  > Yup.  SunWipe(tm). >  > B >>I have not to my knowledge called Freddy a Moron or a CompaqWipe' >>or any other form of infantile abuse.- >> >> > M > You started down this road with the Freddy-boy, cruft.  At first it annoyed2M > me (as was intended) and then I decided to just enjoy it - since apparentlyrM > it must be getting under your skin - if after all this time you had decidedi > to start name calling. >     < No Freddy I didn't check the postings, before the Freddy boy> posts you had been free with the use of insults. The fact that7 you seem to have chosen to escalate them to a new level/9 should not be a cause of amusement to you but a source ofL shame.  9 Selective memory is a wonderfull thing particulary if youo work for Compaq.      A >>I have however questioned his ability to respond to the threadsCA >>which he seems to think deserve his input but which he is quite-C >>clearly not competent in. I have no doubt of his technical prowesi@ >>in the areas covered in his CV, he has worked at Compaq a long0 >>time and they would have found him out by now. >> >> > I > Come on.  Your aren't competent to comment on anything about VMS.  Your>K > responses are formulaic market-droid my-member-is-bigger-than-your-memberpL > tomes, and when pinned down on almost any subject, you change the subject, > or start some other attack.e >     A I am far more competent to comment on OpenVMS than you are on the B majority of subjects you seem to have chosen to comment on in this? forum over the last couple of months.  I was actually taught on C VMS at Uni and subsequently used VMS. Have you used Solaris, Linux,kC have you been an Oracle DBA, have you ever run any big applicationsa? benchmarks and had to tune the environment ? No but it does not < stop you putting forward your opinion in all of these areas.  : When did you last meet a big customer, sit down with their9 service delivery team etc I don't mean surfing a stand at0* a trade show BT ? Not recently apparently.  : You have never used Solaris, Linux but seem quite happy to9 expound on their relative merits, for that matter you area8 also happy to expound on Solaris vs OpenVMS without ever$ having used one of the environments.  < You seem to think that this is OK because you are posting toA and OpenVMS newsgroup. Sadly your opinions are no more worthwhile9> here than they would be on a non OpenVMS newsgroup. You appear: to think that its the medium and not the message thats the deciding factor.  ? I on the other hand have used VMS, developed SW for UNIX, SunOS > and Solaris, I have been a post sales support engineer, I have@ been a benchmarking engineer and I am currently responsible fromC a technical architecture, delivery and support standpoint for Sun'sr" largest retail customer in the UK.  A In reality I a much better qualified to comment on the areas thatp= you have chosen to adopt as your apparent areas of competenceV= than you are. This may be an OpenVMS forum but when you startn? BSing about the relative performance of Alpha vs Sun or Solarism: vs Linux you are in my area of comptence and not yours and	 it shows.y  = So be an adult stick to what you know and keep the ad-hominem  attacks down to a dull roar.    I > As to prognostication.  Hey, we're all about equal in telling fortunes.-N > We'll see how things shake out, and who was right and who was wrong.  If youK > listen to all the forecasts here, you wil note that EV7/Marvel will nevertK > ship, VMS will be cancelled as soon as HP takes over, IA64 will fail, andeJ > Alpha was the most profitable thing on the planet (and always would have* > been) - except of course for the PDP-10. >     @ Interesting attempt at a straw man, I have never suggested that < EV7/Marvel will never ship and I havn't suggested that IA-64* will fail. With Intels money its unlikely.  ; Incedentally you were in the choir singing the Alpha is thei; best thing since sliced bread and IA-64 won't deliver, youre1 conversion on the road to Damascus is well known.t     > ? >>However the areas that Freddy now seems to spend his time andw= >>effort responding to are not on his CV and although this isxC >>an OpenVMS newsgroup any thread which for example speculates thatO> >>Linux will sweep Solaris away not only deserves my input butF >>is also an area in which I am qualified to comment. I use and manageH >>a Linux box I have installed is a number of times and and I am posting: >>this response from a Solaris server which I also manage. >> > L > You want to tell us why Slowaris is better than Linux, but it rings hollowG > as your arguments are the same ones that were used to tell people whyhL > Slowaris was better than name-your-existing-OS-including-VMS 10 years ago.N > You don't like that button pushed.  You want to tell us why anyone would useJ > Sparc - old, slow, and with little prospects of *ever* even meeting IA64M > performance.  Good luck.  Your arguments are that you can ship really cheap K > ones (although not as cheap as IA32) that are even slower, and even oldereH > technology.  Yup, Sun is at the top today - but it's on a tailwind andM > fumes, and there is a long way to fall - just ask those who worked for DEC. M > You have no high-end hardware strategy to keep up with anything or anyone -lL > even the much maligned IA64 - let alone EV7, and your SW strategy seems toM > be to try and create "standards" based on Slowaris -- but even there, Linuxt) > is becomming the new emerging standard.t >     @ How do you know that my arguments are incorrect you know nothing= about Solaris or Linux you can't even accurately spell one of > them. All you are doing is voicing your opinion without having) any facts to back these opinions up with.d  @ I am taking your claim to have used a Solaris box scavenged from! a srap heap with a pinch of salt.a   Regards    Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:45:15 GMTB From: robert@bonomi.invalid 2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it< Message-ID: <fSBv8.16589$A%3.146665@ord-read.news.verio.net>  1 In article <a9mcml$oao$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,e) Peter da Silva <peter@taronga.com> wrote:.A >In article <32tv8.24472$PV.2951124@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,m* >Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:J >>I can assure you that by 1983 - 4 the 'industry-standard' PC package wasL >>IBM-compatible:  we were running up against that hard trying to sell Pros. > L >I'm not talking about 1983, though. I'm not even talking about this or thatJ >technical detail. I'm talking about a trend that SHOULD have been obviousH >to DEC a couple of years before that. What I mean by "the S-100 bus wasK >the industry standard" is that it's not a matter of "the industry standardiM >that makes X a winner" but "the success of X makes it an industry standard".  >2N >>> What was killer was *abundant* *cheap* 32-bit systems with ample software. >l  >>In 1981?  Could you name them? >eN >They didn't exist in 1981. But what *did* exist in 1981 was enough to make itN >obvious that they *would* exist within a few years. We'd already been throughI >the same process many times by then, and DEC had been part of one of theo >previous waves.  H The first of the true 32-bit super-micros hit the market in  Feb of '83.L from "Charles River Data Systems", Boston.  The 'little' one was about $20k,K and a near performance-match to a Vax 780.  The big one, fully tricked out, J could run head-to-head with a 780 *with* a FPS array-processor attachment.M Peak floating-point performance at 320 MFLOPS.  All For less than $300k, and TQ in the space of a 2-drawer file cabinet, depending on how much disk you needed.  eK Insult to injury, it comfortably supported 50+ simultaneous, active, users.s  N O/S was a Unix 7th Ed.  look-/work-alike.  With _true_ real-time capabilities.N (It looked like UNIX, and was 100% call-compatible -- but the lower levels of M the O/S were entirely developed in-house at CRDS.  Fully pre-emptable, 'hard'rL real-time capable.) The entire AT&T Unix utilities set was available, along M with a commercial database package, and full TCP/IP networking -- well, *IF* o0 you had the (hideously expensive) Ethernet card.  K Available languages included an optimizing C compiler, a quality Fortran 77 M compiler (Lahey, I think, its been a -long- time :) and an impressively good v COBOL for a small machine.  3 Over the years, they sold more than 10,000 systems.n  ( >>While there may have been cheap 32-bitN >>systems that early (though even that seems just a tad earlier than they wereM >>generally available), claiming that their software competed in any way with  >>DEC's seems a real stretch.  >aL >I didn't claim that their software competed with DEC's then. I claimed thatM >what existed then was enough to be ringing warning bells at DEC, and that if.K >they'd responded when the 80386 showed up it still may have been too late.s >m >>> That wasn't the race.r >s4 >>Exactly.  Which is why the 386 was the real worry. >nL >By the late '80s, yes. But it wasn't released until October 1985. It didn'tM >really have much impact on mass-market systems for a year or two after that: O >people were still mostly buying 286-based systems until the 386SX came out andt& >you could build a 386 for 286 prices. > < >But that's *years* after they should have started worrying. >uJ >Again, by NCC '82 it was obvious what was going to happen, even if it was3 >too early to tell what product it was going to be.s > + >The 80386 was the bullet that finally hit.t >c* >But the 68000 was the first warning shot.  ' and the WE 16032 (and follow-up 32032),d   and the Zilog Z8000, w    and at least a couple of others.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:27:40 -0700y+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>y2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of itP Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0204180821470.27194-100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>  , On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:* > >> Those of us on the -10 had no problemC > >> using local computers to access mainframes and we were waiting D > >> for the day when we could have a PDP-10 on our desktop at home.M > >So, Barb, now that it is quite feasible, when are you going to do it?  :-)aB > <grin>  I don't have to.  There are a number of 'guys' doing theF > work.  And there are other guys doing my 1984 proposal which doesn't> > force all users to learn a new operating system just because= > the architecture has changed.  If I was really going to runc; > a biz that built a desktop PDP-10, I'd get Mike to do it.e  C No, I meant: Now that it is quite feasible to have a PDP-10 on yourdE desktop at home (I built mine for $750), when are you going to do it?e4 We are waiting to see BAH's ultimate TOPS-10 system.  G My desktop PDP-10 uses: Athlon 1700+ CPU, Gibraltar microcode operating I system (secure CD-ROM based version of Debian Linux), klh10 microcode.  IiI built the hardware myself out of off-the shelf PC hardware for $750.  ThevJ result runs TOPS-20 15 times faster than a KL.  A complete TOPS-20 releaseE 7 monitor build from sources (including all the DECnet crud) takes 12s minutes.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc2F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2002 17:02:27 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)2 Subject: Re: Predictions - just for the hell of it2 Message-ID: <a9mu73$18at$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  < In article <fSBv8.16589$A%3.146665@ord-read.news.verio.net>,  <robert@bonomi.invalid> wrote:tI >The first of the true 32-bit super-micros hit the market in  Feb of '83. + >from "Charles River Data Systems", Boston.e  H Onyx, Zilog, and Plexus were all shipping Z8000-based systems by the endH of 1981. I don't know why the Z8000 seemed to recede into the backgroundK when the 68000 showed up, but by NCC 1982 everyone was talking up the 68000aJ and ignoring the Z8000. Most of the vendors with 32-bit systems were using" the 68000 and Plexus had switched.   -- a@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)g   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:20:15 GMTp2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>G Subject: Presentations from OpenVMS Technical Update Days now  availabls8 Message-ID: <3Syv8.7$iu1.207897@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  , http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/index.html   Just for clarification.t  J Vienna, Austria was April 8 & 9 Wilfired Bergmann was the local Ambassador host  K London, England  was April 11 & 12 Dave Foddy and Ray Turner were the localp Ambassadors hosting this event  L Also Sunil Kumaran was the speaker in the UK instead of Mick Keyes. This was@ a mistake on the agenda that I made when reviewing the web site.  I Many thanks to everyone that attended and presented, it was great to meets many of you.  
 Warm Regards,g   Suep   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:45:47 +0200l% From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> & Subject: Re: Problem with Compaq C 6.4% Message-ID: <3cbe87bb$1@news.post.ch>r  ( Here ist more information to my problem:  / 1) Programm, which tries to load the shareable:-   #include <dlfcn.h>2 #define LOAD_LIBRARY(name) dlopen(name, RTLD_LAZY). #define FIND_ENTRY(lib, name) dlsym(lib, name) #include <stdio.h> #include <errno.h>   typedef int  (*RPC_TO_OG) ();     D static void *                   handle                          = 0;  ) static char * service = "SETUP_SECURITY";c  < static RPC_TO_OG                setupSecurity           = 0;  
 int main () {A  =    if((handle = (void *)LOAD_LIBRARY("LIBOG_SHR")) == NULL) {.$       printf("\ncannot load lib\n");    }  I    if((setupSecurity = (RPC_TO_OG)FIND_ENTRY(handle, service)) == NULL) {e0       printf("\ncannot find symbol %d/n",errno);    };c   }    2) logical pointing to image:r   GDC006>sh log libog_shryE    "LIBOG_SHR" = "KOBE_TMC_ONLINE_GATEWAY:[RUNTIME_AXP]LIBOG_SHR.EXE"d (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) E    "LIBOG_SHR" = "KOBE_TMC_ONLINE_GATEWAY:[RUNTIME_AXP]LIBOG_SHR.EXE"  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)     3) Symbol exported?i& GDC006>define sys$output anal.txt/userD GDC006>anal/image KOBE_TMC_ONLINE_GATEWAY:[RUNTIME_AXP]LIBOG_SHR.EXE GDC006>sea anal.txt setupn(                 symbol: "SETUP_SECURITY"     4) run load programc   GDC006>run TESTLOAD.EXEt   cannot find symbol 0/n       Why???  ( ________________________________________   --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninioniA and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyl    6 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3cbd8cb2$1@news.post.ch...d > Hello, >aF > is there a known bug in the area of linking and loading of shareable images > compiled withs >e > GDC006>cc/versionO- > Compaq C V6.4-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1H1e >  > ?a > F > We have problems when trying to link to C-functions, exported from a0 > shareable image, compiled with this C-Compiler >  > best regards >  > Jakobl >i > --K > What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opniniontC > and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my company  >  >n >8 >T   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 08:57:56 -0700 From: hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy)s5 Subject: Re: Redirect SYS$OUTPUT for detached processt< Message-ID: <2c0966c2.0204180757.425b74d@posting.google.com>   John:a  D    Thanks for the help...Everything works beautifully now. Just want6 to express my appreciation and say THANK YOU !!!!! ^_^       Sammyp   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 07:55:35 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris):3 Subject: Re: Require info on DWDM for VMSclustering3= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204180655.7833229d@posting.google.com>H  U Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> wrote in message news:<3CBDD8E6.39838520@cha.ab.ca>...>I > We plan on clustering four ES45's (VMS 7.3) across two sites using only G > DWDM.  Have any other readers tried this yet, and if so, what sort ofl > experience was it?  C Dense Wave Division Multiplexing is a technique of sending multiplepE frequencies ("colors") of light down a single fiber, allowing as manypD as 100 or so separate channels of data to pass instead of just one. A This is made possible by new broadband light amplifiers which can F boost the signal of multiple colors of light at once.  A splice in theD fiber that is doped with erbium and pumped with energy using a laserE amplifies light across a broad spectrum, while allowing the signal tohD remain in the optical realm (not having to first convert the opticalF data back to electical signals to amplify it, and thus also not havingD to have a separate amplifier for each of those many channels).  Neat stuff.  C Lucent seems to be the biggest player, Nortel appears to be another = big one, and even Cisco sells equipment for this.  So gettingrE equipment should be no problem.  Search their websites for DWDM info.i  F DWDM equipment tends to support many channels of either OC-48 (2.48832F gigabits, roughly 2.5 Gbits) or even OC-192 (9.95328 gigabits, roughlyD 10 Gbits) capacity.  So you could run links like Gigabit Ethernet or@ 1-Gbit or 2-Gbit Fibre Channel over a DWDM link with headroom toF spare, or even 10-gigabit Ethernet if you had that and were willing to< pay the price for the newer 10 Gbit DWDM channel technology.  E With respect to multi-site or disaster-tolerant clusters, use of DWDMnD implies that you have access to dark fiber between the sites.  GivenE that you have dark fiber available, you could, of course, simply linkaC the sites with Gigabit Ethernet or FDDI over that dark fiber and benE done with it.  Where DWDM comes in is that it would allow you to, foro> example, have a channel of Gigabit Ethernet for SCS traffic in? addition to a channel of Fibre Channel for disk traffic, plus aaF separate channel of Gigabit Ethernet for IP traffic, all over the sameC fiber pair.  To protect against host adapter failures or GbE switch @ failures, or to provide even more bandwidth for things like full> shadow copies or heavy network traffic, one could run multiple$ channels of a given type of traffic.  E Gigabit Ethernet or FC over DWDM would look just like a local link toe? the cluster software and FC hardware, except for the additionalnA latency due to speed of light over the link distance, of course. nD Conversion to DWDM itself doesn't really add latency, because you'reE just taking light of one color and converting it to a different coloreE (there are even passive DWDM boxes available that have no power inputtE at all).  If you had a long distance between the sites, you could use F CNT boxes to convert FC to IP or ATM traffic and then send that over aD channel; the CNT boxes return FC flow-control credits at each end ofB the long-distance link, which can help throughput.  (Ken Bates hasE done some DECUS presentations on that topic over the past few years.)s  > Given that you will likely need only a few channels, a similar@ technique, Coarse Wave Division Multiplexing (CWDM), may be moreC cost-effective for your needs.  This technology supports perhaps 16eF channels instead of 80 to 100.  You could always upgrade to DWDM later if you needed more channels.  D Be aware that the dark fiber pair remains a single point of failure,F subject to things like "backhoe fade".  Since dark fiber is apparently@ available in your area, you could consider procuring two sets of? fiber, routed via diverse routes, to help protect against this.h  : Out of curiousity, what distance separates your two sites?. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:49:58 -0400a# From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com> Y Subject: Re: Semi-automatic clutch. (was Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itas/ Message-ID: <ubtfp97d0b8ne3@news.supernews.com>h  : And what about that DAF 33 back in the 70's and early 80's  ! Variamatic or something like thatt  K It had a conicular transmission (actually a perpetual gear shifting system)'   Good concept - lousy car    < Part of Volvo I think now - or is it Mitsubishi, or whatever   DT  - <Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com> wrote in messageo4 news:OFF4C71168.347ACAC8-ON00256B9E.005DD2BC@btyp... >  > TipTronic I believe. >t	 > Steve S  >  >m >  >c >tG > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) on 04/17/2002 03:03:42 PM  >s" > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:mH > From:      bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), 17 April 2002, 3:03 >            p.m.> >s@ > Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles) >a >tC > In article <P1Gu8.38195$%l3.3809728@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,s/ >  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:t > |>H > |> That reminds me that I think I recall some kind of clutchless shift > option- > |> from Porsche appearing recently as well.o >a? > Recently??  Porsche has had a clutchless shift semi-automatic B > transmission for more than 30 years. (I don't remember the name,G > but I do still have the shop manuals at home if anyone really cares.)h >t > bill >s > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >h >y >n >r >yH > ______________________________________________________________________ >e >  > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beI > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasrI > been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,l& > distribute or use this transmission. >gJ > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isI > not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedaD > this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >- > Thank you. >hF > Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.= > Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.9 >3K > Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,gF > RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041. >4 >P   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:34:36 +0100t* From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com># Subject: System Disk as Quorum Diskw% Message-ID: <3cbe8e4f$1@194.70.94.92>u   Hi,s   Enviroment : Alpha ES40 (nodename ALPHA)t# Alpha 4100  5/600 (nodename ALPHA2)e  
 OpenVMS 7.2-1   F I've been away from VMS (oops sorry OpenVMS) for a few years, back nowL though.  Started working for a e-tailor recently, had a look at their 2 nodeD system which they thought was clustered - well, the sysman parameterJ VAXCLUSTER is set to 2. - But then EXPECTED_VOTES is set to 1 and there isI no Quorum Disk.  My cunning plan was to add a quorum disk (the ALPHA ES40i% system disk) by doing the following :n   On ALPHA (ES40)a   SET PROC/PRIV=ALLi   @SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG.COMe   Select OPTION 3o  K Select OPTION 7 - Answer the questions regarding Quorum Disk name ($1$DGA1)d
 and votes (1)       	 MC SYSMAN    SYSMAN > SET ENV/NODE=ALPHA    SYSMAN> PARAM USE CURRENTe  #  SYSMAN> PARAM SET EXPECTED_VOTES 32    SYSMAN> PARAM WRITE CURRENT  
  SYSMAN> EXIT       . @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN (selecting REBOOT option)       Once ALPHA is back up.       On ALPHA2 (4100)   SET PROC/PRIV=ALL    @SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM    Select OPTION 3   K Select OPTION 7 - Answer the questions regarding Quorum Disk name ($1$DGA1)t
 and votes (1)l      	 MC SYSMAN3   SYSMAN > SET ENV/NODE=ALPHA2   SYSMAN> PARAM USE CURRENTg  " SYSMAN> PARAM SET EXPECTED_VOTES 3   SYSMAN> PARAM WRITE CURRENTp   SYSMAN> EXIT      . @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN (selecting REBOOT option)      H However, I was speaking to someone last week and they have said that youH CANNOT and SHOULD NOT use the system disk as a quorum disk, but I cannot' find any documentation to support this.e      " Anyone any advice regarding this ?      I (sorry for asking what is probably quite an elementary question, but as IpE mentioned earlier, it's been a few years since my last flirtaton withs2 OpenVMS and I guess this is the best place to ask)       Thanks in advancec       Craig CookeF   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:17:33 GMTp0 From: rickm@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rick Millhollin)' Subject: Re: System Disk as Quorum Disks2 Message-ID: <3cbef0f9.1369079822@news.uoregon.edu>  1 On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:34:36 +0100, "Craig Cooke"  <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> wrote:e   <snip>I >However, I was speaking to someone last week and they have said that youeI >CANNOT and SHOULD NOT use the system disk as a quorum disk, but I cannot ( >find any documentation to support this. <snip>  ? I use my system disk as a quorum disk with no problems.  It's ae* hardware miror set on an HSG80 controller.  1 Rick Millhollin, Director of Computing Facilitiesr@ University of Oregon Computing Center, Eugene, Oregon 97403-12120 Phone: (541)346-1730  FAX: (541)346-6438 or 4397C E-mail: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (remove anti-spam digits)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:42:40 +0100sT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>+ Subject: Re: Throughput and additional CPUsa& Message-ID: <3CBEBF40.2030204@sun.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t   > With drivers for VMS ?+ > That you can buy/install out-of-the-box ? $ > OK then, I just didn't found them.
 > Sorry... > Jan-Erik Sderholm.0 >     = Sorry I had erroneously assumed that Compaq had done a driverd< for the PCI Crypto card that they produce. I noted that whenB it was announced that it didn't have one but I assumed incorrectly that Compaq had done one.n  E Incedentally you cannot build a proper PKI solution without somethingoE like a FIPS 140-2 validated HSM which many of the Crypto acceleratorsw
 double as.     Regards  Andrew Harrisonh     > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > D >>The Compaw folks who designed that card, in discussions at the RSAD >>Conference a year ago, indicated there would be no problem running >>it on an Alpha.  >>/ >>Likewise the other three vendors I mentioned.  >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:35:44 +0100b' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>e5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ? 2 Message-ID: <180420021035449710%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  5 In article <3CBE1307.AE46B2B5@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeiy% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s   > Elliott Roper wrote:K > > Last time I brought this up, Hoff convinced me that it was too tiresomey > > to change it back. > K > But with VMS changing owner, won't they have to go though the sources and N > change copyrights etc ? If so, then changing it back to VMS could be done at > the same time.  D That's a fair point. But you are still stuck with convincing all the6 lamers they don't have to upgrade to VMS from OpenVMS.  E I now like the idea of letting the 'Open' become more and more silent.G with time. We could start with fine print disclaimers that explain that C OpenVMS and VMS are the same thing and slowly fade the 'open' away.s  E It honestly does not matter any more. VMS is selling mostly to people G who can have a bit of a laugh at the sillier bits of marketing, and who0> would appreciate no further money being wasted on changing the
 packaging.  F After all, we would not want to see "My DCL" or "Visual RMS" would we?  F Can you imagine a paper clip leaping out at you halfway through typing
 a teco macro?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:02:42 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?i) Message-ID: <3CBE99C2.4C554680@127.0.0.1>8   Elliott Roper wrote:  I > Last time I brought this up, Hoff convinced me that it was too tiresomeND > to change it back. By now the silent 'open' has achieved a certainG > anachronistic charm. It is a gentle reminder that VMS survived Robertd' > Palmer. How's *that* for unbreakable?U  H I'm sure guys of their talent could write a TECO macro to do the job forG them :-), but whatever it is called it is not going away because VMS is + also outliving companies as well as people!1   -- 0( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 08:17:34 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?n3 Message-ID: <V8v9CHDJRK6S@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  \ In article <180420021035449710%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> writes:  H > After all, we would not want to see "My DCL" or "Visual RMS" would we?  G    As long as it stays "DCL".  It didn'e become "CCL" and I hope not tosD    see "HPCL".  The latter would get confuse with PCL all too often.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:04:53 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>g5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?,8 Message-ID: <r0htbukp489cj87g61tev510uut5u7u1eq@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:35:44 +0100, Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>$ wrote:     >rG >After all, we would not want to see "My DCL" or "Visual RMS" would we?t  3 Perhaps not but DCL.COM has a certain ring to it :)O   or perhaps @VMS.COM(     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:34:25 -0700c+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>)5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ? ' Message-ID: <3CBEE781.9050307@mmaz.com>v   Sue Skonetski wrote:  - >I just wanted to post a small reply to this.  > M >>From personal experience I have learned that most customers view VMS as VMS"# >on VAX and OpenVMS as VMS on Alphat >a! >It has nothing to do with logic.u >y >sue >O8 So does this mean the VMS on IPF will be called Windows?   Barryt   -- y  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028:   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 09:14:42 -0700/ From: yelmalio@sartar.fsnet.co.uk (Dave Barlow)E% Subject: Re: Two IP printing problemsx< Message-ID: <8380e4f.0204180814.258c56f8@posting.google.com>  r yelmalio@sartar.fsnet.co.uk (Dave Barlow) wrote in message news:<8380e4f.0204170716.45103ac@posting.google.com>...  G > If I set up the DCPS queues to use rawtcp the jobs go into a startingn > state and never recover.    A For anyone who is interested I may have found the answer this. ItsE appears to be a bug in the DCPS symbionts handling of IP. If you looknA at the network trace below where 200.8 is a Marknet print box and  200.62 is the VAXc  eP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  bD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 353 at 18-APR-2002 16:19:58.47  tE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 48 = ^x0030 -5    IP Identifier  = ^xC64B,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  i@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 128 = ^x80,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xA230)    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.62 s(    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.8   8    TCP Source Port = 1091,  TCP Destination Port = 9100 6    TCP Sequence Number      = 1699584001 = ^x654D9801 -    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 0 = ^x00000000 j4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=0,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=1,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 4096 = ^x1000 8    TCP Checksum = ^x7DB8,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   A    TCP Option = 2 MAXSEG Option Length = 4, Segment Size = 1456 =^ ^x05B0  D    TCP Option = 3 SCALE_WINDOW Option Length = 3, Scale factor = 0 = ^x01  7    3EC80a0a   30A20680   00004BC6   30000045    0000   : E..0.K.....0...>7    00000000   01984D65   8C234304 | 08C80a0a    0010   6 .....C#.eM......7  | 01000303   B0050402   0000B87D   00100270    0020     p...}...........  6  8  2  hP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  lD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 354 at 18-APR-2002 16:19:58.48  oE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 48 = ^x0030 i5    IP Identifier  = ^xA1EB,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  h@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 254 = ^xFE,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x0890(    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.8 )    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.62    8    TCP Source Port = 9100,  TCP Destination Port = 1091 5    TCP Sequence Number      = 996046902 = ^x3B5E7836 o6    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 1699584002 = ^x654D9802 4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=1,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 2912 = ^x0B60 8    TCP Checksum = ^xCDAF,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   A    TCP Option = 2 MAXSEG Option Length = 4, Segment Size = 1460 =N ^x05B4      TCP Option = 1 NODELAY   7    08C80a0a   900806FE   0040EBA1   30000045    0000   i E..0..@.........7    02984D65   36785E3B   43048C23 | 3EC80a0a    0010   e ...>#..C;^x6eM..7  | 00030301   B4050402   0000AFCD   600B1270    0020     p..`............     n  -   P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  ED    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 355 at 18-APR-2002 16:19:58.48   E    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028  5    IP Identifier  = ^xC64C,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  c@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 128 = ^x80,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xA237)    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.62 o(    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.8   8    TCP Source Port = 1091,  TCP Destination Port = 9100 6    TCP Sequence Number      = 1699584002 = ^x654D9802 5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 996046903 = ^x3B5E7837 h4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 4096 = ^x1000 8    TCP Checksum = ^xF4D3,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    3EC80a0a   37A20680   00004CC6   28000045    0000   r E..(.L.....7...>7    37785E3B   02984D65   8C234304 | 08C80a0a    0010   r .....C#.eM..;^x7@                        | 0000D3F4   00101050    0020    P.......     a     eP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  FD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 360 at 18-APR-2002 16:19:58.67  rF    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 397 = ^x018D 5    IP Identifier  = ^xC650,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  e@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 128 = ^x80,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xA0CE)    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.62  (    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.8   8    TCP Source Port = 1091,  TCP Destination Port = 9100 6    TCP Sequence Number      = 1699584002 = ^x654D9802 5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 996046903 = ^x3B5E7837 e4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 4096 = ^x1000 8    TCP Checksum = ^xA293,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    3EC80a0a   CEA00680   000050C6   8D010045    0000   c E....P.........>7    37785E3B   02984D65   8C234304 | 08C80a0a    0010   a .....C#.eM..;^x77    53502125   0A0D2125 | 000093A2   00101850    0020     P.......%!..%!PSA    69727970   6F432025   0A0D6562   6F64412D    0030    -Adobe..%a CopyriD    39393120   2D203638   393120A9   20746867    0040    ght . 1986 - 199oE    7145206C   61746967   69442079   62202C39    0050    9, by Digitalg Eq?    7461726F   70726F43   20746E65   6D706975    0060    uipmenti CorporatE    614D202C   6472616E   79614D20   2C6E6F69    0070    ion, Maynard,c MaB    74686769   72206C6C   4120250A   0D2E7373    0080    ss...% All right0F    5020250A   0D2E6465   76726573   65722073    0090    s reserved...% Po7    20435350   2E455059   542D5245   544E4952    00A0   s RINTER-TYPE.PSCg7    2525285B   65766173   0A0D0A0D   332E3156    00B0   o V1.3....save[(%%9    203A7375   74617453   6E727574   6552205B    00C0    [e
 ReturnStatus:d;    74636964   73757461   74732922   20333432    00D0    243  ")statusdictB    2079706F   63203220   74637564   6F72702F    00E0    /product 2 copy7    0A0D706F   707B7D74   65677B6E   776F6E6B    00F0   e known{get}{pop..7    66697D29   444E554F   46544F4E   28706F70    0100   i pop(NOTFOUND)}if>    75645D29   6E5C2525   5D202228   65736C65    0110    else("	 ]%%\n)]dus;    20687467   6E656C7B   68637865   20302070    0120    p 0@ exch{length B    6E697274   73206C6C   61726F66   7D646461    0130    add}forall strin2>    337B6863   78650A0D   30206863   78652067    0140    g exch	 0..exch{3a=    61767265   746E6974   75702079   706F6320    0150     copy.
 putinterva@    726F667D   64646120   6874676E   656C206C    0160    l length add}fortE    6C662074   6E697270   20706F70   206C6C61    0170    all pop printe flE          0A   0D65726F   74736572   20687375    0180    ush restore..e  t  ?  o  hP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  (D    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 361 at 18-APR-2002 16:19:58.67  eE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028  5    IP Identifier  = ^xA1EC,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),   @          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 254 = ^xFE,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x0897(    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.8 )    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.62 _  8    TCP Source Port = 9100,  TCP Destination Port = 1091 5    TCP Sequence Number      = 996046903 = ^x3B5E7837 a6    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 1699584359 = ^x654D9967 4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), C                                            Window = 16384 = ^x4000 i8    TCP Checksum = ^xC36E,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    08C80a0a   970806FE   0040ECA1   28000045    0000     E..(..@.........7    67994D65   37785E3B   43048C23 | 3EC80a0a    0010     ...>#..C;^x7eM.gF        0000   00000000 | 00006EC3   00401050    0020    P.@..n........  .  h     lP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  lE    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 3905 at 18-APR-2002 16:21:13.39m  dE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 41 = ^x0029  5    IP Identifier  = ^xCA18,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  P@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 128 = ^x80,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x9E6A)    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.62 9(    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.8   8    TCP Source Port = 1091,  TCP Destination Port = 9100 6    TCP Sequence Number      = 1699584358 = ^x654D9966 5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 996046902 = ^x3B5E7836 i4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 4096 = ^x1000 8    TCP Checksum = ^xFE6E,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    3EC80a0a   6A9E0680   000018CA   29000045    0000   t E..).......j...>7    36785E3B   66994D65   8C234304 | 08C80a0a    0010   n .....C#.eM.f;^x6A                     F5 | 00006EFE   00101050    0020    P....n...e  O  O  o   P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  eE    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 3906 at 18-APR-2002 16:21:13.39A  SE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028 I5    IP Identifier  = ^xA1F5,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  N@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 254 = ^xFE,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x088E(    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.8 )    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.62 G  8    TCP Source Port = 9100,  TCP Destination Port = 1091 5    TCP Sequence Number      = 996046903 = ^x3B5E7837 A6    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 1699584359 = ^x654D9967 4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), C                                            Window = 16384 = ^x4000 d8    TCP Checksum = ^xC36E,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    08C80a0a   8E0806FE   0040F5A1   28000045    0000   a E..(..@.........7    67994D65   37785E3B   43048C23 | 3EC80a0a    0010   r ...>#..C;^x7eM.gF        0000   00000000 | 00006EC3   00401050    0020    P.@..n........  '  e  a  wP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  sE    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 4758 at 18-APR-2002 16:21:28.81-  -E    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028 g5    IP Identifier  = ^xA1F7,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  u@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 254 = ^xFE,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x088C(    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.8 )    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.62 e  8    TCP Source Port = 9100,  TCP Destination Port = 1091 5    TCP Sequence Number      = 996046903 = ^x3B5E7837 i6    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 1699584359 = ^x654D9967 4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=1), C                                            Window = 16384 = ^x4000 n8    TCP Checksum = ^xC36D,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    08C80a0a   8C0806FE   0040F7A1   28000045    0000   a E..(..@.........7    67994D65   37785E3B   43048C23 | 3EC80a0a    0010   - ...>#..C;^x7eM.gF        0000   00000000 | 00006DC3   00401150    0020    P.@..m........     s  a   P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  CE    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 4759 at 18-APR-2002 16:21:28.81e   E    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028  5    IP Identifier  = ^xCB2D,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  a@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 128 = ^x80,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x9D56)    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.62 o(    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.8   8    TCP Source Port = 1091,  TCP Destination Port = 9100 6    TCP Sequence Number      = 1699584359 = ^x654D9967 5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 996046904 = ^x3B5E7838 .4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 4096 = ^x1000 8    TCP Checksum = ^xF36D,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    3EC80a0a   569D0680   00002DCB   28000045    0000   i E..(.-.....V...>7    38785E3B   67994D65   8C234304 | 08C80a0a    0010   - .....C#.eM.g;^x8@                        | 00006DF3   00101050    0020    P....m..     j  :  :P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  rE    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 4812 at 18-APR-2002 16:21:29.14m  iE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028  5    IP Identifier  = ^xCB44,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  r@          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 128 = ^x80,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x9D3F)    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.62 t(    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.8   8    TCP Source Port = 1091,  TCP Destination Port = 9100 6    TCP Sequence Number      = 1699584359 = ^x654D9967 5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 996046904 = ^x3B5E7838 s4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=1), B                                            Window = 4096 = ^x1000 8    TCP Checksum = ^xF36C,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    3EC80a0a   3F9D0680   000044CB   28000045    0000   a E..(.D.....?...>7    38785E3B   67994D65   8C234304 | 08C80a0a    0010   e .....C#.eM.g;^x8@                        | 00006CF3   00101150    0020    P....l..  a  t  e  MP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  aE    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 4814 at 18-APR-2002 16:21:29.15   aE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x0028 .5    IP Identifier  = ^xA1F8,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),   @          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000@    IP TTL = 254 = ^xFE,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^x088B(    IP Source Address      = 10.10.200.8 )    IP Destination Address = 10.10.200.62 n  8    TCP Source Port = 9100,  TCP Destination Port = 1091 5    TCP Sequence Number      = 996046904 = ^x3B5E7838 e6    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 1699584360 = ^x654D9968 4        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), C                                            Window = 16384 = ^x4000 p8    TCP Checksum = ^xC36C,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   7    08C80a0a   8B0806FE   0040F8A1   28000045    0000   a E..(..@.........7    68994D65   38785E3B   43048C23 | 3EC80a0a    0010   r ...>#..C;^x8eM.hF        0000   00000000 | 00006CC3   00401050    0020    P.@..l........  e  ? And specifically packet 3905, the TCP Acknowledgement number is.D decremented from the previous one used in the previous 2 packets. InC essence, DCPS acknowedges the SYN/ACK packet from the Marknet. This ? causes the Marknet to close the connection. Interestingly, thise, results in DCPS giving the following errors,  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  18-APR-2002 16:21:28.89  %%%%%%%%%%%  Message from user SYSTEM on VAX1? Queue POSTSCRIPT2: %DCPS-F-CONTERMINATED, Connection abnormallyl
 terminated   VAX1>>  6 %DCPS-F-REQMODNOTFOUND, Required device control module LPS$$INITPSDEVICE not fou0 nd< -DCPS-I-JOB_ID, for job LOGIN (queue 201$ANSI, entry 905) on POSTSCRIPT2l  E Looking through the release notes the last message is listed as being F caused by an invalid parameter passed to a DEClaser 5100 with internal/ NIC. This is a DEClaser 2100 with external NIC.a  F As we don't have a support contract with Compaq I am offering this for info or dissection.:   Dave Barlowy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:50:51 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: UIC's and such.) Message-ID: <3CBECF3B.F50514FD@127.0.0.1>h   Hoff Hoffman wrote:V > @ >   You could do that through some freeware kernel-mode hacks orB >   through the long-since unsupported SET UIC command, or throughB >   some coding and the user impersonation mechanisms (the persona@ >   system services) but again, changing UIC values is generally7 >   not recommended and can (will?) get you in trouble.-  H Oh, I wrote some kernel mode code to do that for non privileged users inH one of my early macro programming experiences. We couldn't use the groupE and logical name switching mechanisms and ACL's due to limitations ofsF all the applications in question, so I used a combination of carefullyH written installed privileged code coupled with granted identifiers and a# menu system to hide the entire lot.    -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:05:50 +1000o= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>  Subject: Re: UIC's and such." Message-ID: <hcnm9a.f9o.ln@really>  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message 3 news:wckv8.32$Kb1.757887@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...0  	 [deletia]7 >t@ >   You could do that through some freeware kernel-mode hacks orB >   through the long-since unsupported SET UIC command, or throughB >   some coding and the user impersonation mechanisms (the persona@ >   system services) but again, changing UIC values is generally7 >   not recommended and can (will?) get you in trouble.I  I ...:-) People with any familiarity with a package called Starfire_II willnF remember with startling clarity the "issues" that arose when behaviourK changed from "Spawn -> set uic -> do stuff -> logout -> back to parent " to,I "Spawn -> set uic -> do stuff -> logout -> process hang". It caused us tooJ pull the plug on a VMS upgrade around the country starting that night. TheG inevitable call to support got placed and the answer was basically 'RTFxH release notes which tell you not to use set uic'. Call closed...:-) (HowE testing allowed it to get that far is a whole other saga of Crime and.) Punishment proportions. Don't go there. )2  / Most severely bitten on the arse, I'd say...:-)0   Ooroo 	 Mark F...0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:56:44 -0400-; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>- Subject: Re: UIC's and such." Message-ID: <3cbef989@news.si.com>  A >Currently, my UIC is 1,4 and i need it to be 400,0 for a moment.   @ No, you don't.  That's what rights identifiers and ACLs are for. -- )A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com0A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comh= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventI< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:39:14 +01002( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: UIC's and such.) Message-ID: <3CBEF6B2.2A1B0F75@127.0.0.1>n   "Mark(unMASK)Forsyth" wrote:  K > ...:-) People with any familiarity with a package called Starfire_II willoH > remember with startling clarity the "issues" that arose when behaviourM > changed from "Spawn -> set uic -> do stuff -> logout -> back to parent " to K > "Spawn -> set uic -> do stuff -> logout -> process hang". It caused us to|L > pull the plug on a VMS upgrade around the country starting that night. TheI > inevitable call to support got placed and the answer was basically 'RTF-J > release notes which tell you not to use set uic'. Call closed...:-) (HowG > testing allowed it to get that far is a whole other saga of Crime andh+ > Punishment proportions. Don't go there. )   H Not specifically but my practice was not to spawn, an I went back to theD original UIC after the "jaunt into another UIC space" was completed.    Interesting tale though, thanks. -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2002 05:56:17 -07005 From: kjohnson@reboot-it.com (Kurt Johnson-Reboot-IT)  Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha CI = Message-ID: <8f3be202.0204180456.3f7f2a73@posting.google.com>,  q jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) wrote in message news:<9059bf6b.0204170611.ae4ed60@posting.google.com>...t< > I have recently acquired a decommission star coupler and aB > storageworks rack with dual HSJ40s.  This was used for a VAX6000
 > cluster. > C > I was thinking of using it for my home hobbyist alpha cluster.  I0@ > would like to get a couple of PCI or EISA CI cards.  Compaq isF > offering refurbished ones for around $1500.  That is a little out of0 > my price range.  Anybody have any suggestions? > H > Also, all cables were cut to the coupler, so I will need to get the CI< > cables and rewire the power input cable.  Any suggestions? >  > TIA  >  > JMOD  C I just thought I would offer up some information for you. There are A two different CI adapters you can use in this configuration. BotheC require a minimum VMS V6.2-1H3. The first is the CIPCA-AA this is a.D PCI based CI adapter and requires 1 EISA and 1 PCI slot and also oneD CI cable (BNCIA-xx)per adapter. The second is the CIPCA-BA this is aC PCI based CI adapter and requires 2 PCI slots and also one CI cableSF (BNCIA-xx)per adapter. The CIPCA-AA sells for about $900, The CIPCA-BAA sells for about $3700. The cables pricing varies depending on the0A length you require. They come in lengths of 10, 20 and 45 meters..  	 Have fun!>   Kurt Johnson	 Reboot-IT8   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:18:25 GMT|& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha CIF) Message-ID: <3CBED699.7ADC4A89@attbi.com>o   Robert Deininger wrote:  > L > In article <3CBE103A.40B8CB51@attbi.com>, Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> > wrote: >  > >Jason O'Donnell wrote:b > >>? > >> I have recently acquired a decommission star coupler and a E > >> storageworks rack with dual HSJ40s.  This was used for a VAX60000
 > >> cluster.d > >>F > >> I was thinking of using it for my home hobbyist alpha cluster.  IC > >> would like to get a couple of PCI or EISA CI cards.  Compaq isvI > >> offering refurbished ones for around $1500.  That is a little out ofR3 > >> my price range.  Anybody have any suggestions?1 > >>K > >> Also, all cables were cut to the coupler, so I will need to get the CI0? > >> cables and rewire the power input cable.  Any suggestions?3 > >> > >> TIA > >>	 > >> JMODt > >2A > >There never was a EISA-CI adapter.  PCI-CI is your best bet ify > >your home Alpha has a PCI.7 > C > Isn't there a CI adapter that fits in 1 PCI slot and 1 EISA slot?5 >  > (checks manual...) > H > Yes, this variety of CIPCA is mentioned in the "Guidelines for OpenVMSL > Cluster Configurations" manual.  Supported in various older alpha systems. > H > You can put 26 of them in an alphaserver 8400.  That would make a nice > hobbyist set-up.  ? Yes, but that hybrid is -- logically -- a PCI board.  The chips{A that did not fit onto the PCI board overflowed onto a EISA board, D but the EISA board did not use any EISA signals.  The EISA slot only, supplied power to that portion of the logic. --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:36:28 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>-$ Subject: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)' Message-ID: <3CBE939B.D85648FE@Free.fr>   4 Today, the www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 URL says 404.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:19:48 +03000' From: "Gabriel Sterk" <gabi@aipm.co.il>(( Subject: Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)2 Message-ID: <000001c1e6c2$92218a00$2c46bf10@manai>   Try:  . http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html	   Regards,
 Gabriel Sterke   -----Original Message-----4 From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@Free.fr]' Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:36 AM= To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb$ Subject: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)    4 Today, the www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 URL says 404.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:27:13 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>3( Subject: Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)' Message-ID: <3CBE9F81.1F143B32@aaa.com>   B The http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 page has a broken link to :  & <LINK REL="STYLESHEET" TYPE="text/css"( HREF="http://www.compaq.com/compaq.css">  + Note that the main VMS page has a link to :-  C <LINK rel="stylesheet" href="/includes/global.css" type="text/css">-   which obviously works...  4 So if something has gone (to HP), it's the CSS file.  9 Probably some updates going on, that was made half-ready.x   RegardsI Jan-Erik Sderholm.8   Didier Morandi wrote:  > 6 > Today, the www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 URL says 404. >  > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:34:27 +0200x9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t( Subject: Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)' Message-ID: <3CBEA133.E5E08D97@aaa.com>=   It still misses the " "http://www.compaq.com/compaq.css" file...P   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Gabriel Sterk wrote: >  > Try: > / > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html  > 
 > Regards, > Gabriel SterkW   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:03:48 GMT^0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>( Subject: Re: VMS doc pages gone (to HP?)9 Message-ID: <E7Cv8.26$oA1.483389@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>.  B It's fixed.. coding error (someone didn't read the documentation).    : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CBE939B.D85648FE@Free.fr...-6 > Today, the www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 URL says 404. >A > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:21:10 +0100=( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS versus IBM ) Message-ID: <3CBE9006.23E2A56D@127.0.0.1>l   JF Mezei wrote:= > ...0M > But if Digital still existed and still had VMS as flagship product that hadIN > Unix compatibility, it could focus on a single operating system and focus onP > getting all the right applications ported to it. It could market VMS as "linuxN > compatible" instead of marketing Linux against VMS on the same boxes. And it- > could market VMS from desktop to mainframe.= > P > And in a way, VMS's closest peer would be Solaris. Another proprietary OS that > has "unix compatibility".  > M > Once VMS gains all that unix compatibility it would be a great contender to0O > stand on its own and compete head to head against HP, IBM and Sun and get SAP  > and other to port to VMS.   A JF, these are good points and some things are happening, The Techa& Updates did spill some future beans...  A OK so we've all heard about DIICOE, but that is for the military.lB However most of the work learnt there is going into providing UNIXF portability initiatives into VMS, and as you've correctly identified a4 peer in Solaris, this is (one of?) the main targets.  A I believe this is only starting to kick off about now, so you areIG looking at delivery in a year or two or so, no specific timescales wereIH mentioned, but even if they were, they would not be a commitment to that
 timescale.  D However, the upshot of the work, is that effectively there will be aC UNIX shell, both BASH and KORN were mentioned, and a lot of work is E going on right now to implement things in VMS that make the whole jobIG easier, e.g. the rooted file system mapping to the way VMS works, a few0D quirks of the UNIX file system and making ODS5 deliver what the UNIXF needs, but all this without breaking any of the VMS. A number of other> things that UNIX users take for granted, including FORK should- hopefully, eventually, make its way into VMS.0  1P > I think that one of the big drawbacks of VMS is that its owner must spread itsK > efforts amongst its many operating systems. If it has SAP on Tru64/HP-UX,X/ > there is no real incentive to get SAP on VMS.  > N > But if VMS were to stand on its own, there would be the incentive to get allJ > those apps on-board, at which point, VMS would become a very interestingO > solution since it would not only be a very robust, secure and well documentedxL > OS, but it would also be a platform with all the applications people want.  G Agreed, but you still have the hurdle to either convince the SAP peoplee> they should invest in the VMS X.Y version to produce their VMSA compatible SAP implementation, or release the source code so that8 someone else could do it.=  SP > In the long term, will IBM be able to compete with all those operating systemsN > it must maintain ?  Will HP be able to really figure out a way to let Linux,/ > HP-UX, Tandem (possibly VMS) and NT coexist ?   G IBM has a philosophy that says we sell you the kit and the support, but F the premise is you run what you want on the kit, and will support whatE you want to run on their kit. Part of their gamble I believe is based-B around those with the so-called legacy applications who can re-useA existing hardware and dip their toe in the 'open' water of linux.,  F My personal gut feeling however is that linux isn't being picked up inB the enterprise way expected, the only place I see it making actualG inroads is replacing MS desktops c/w Staroffice. There's a police forceo; in the UK doing just that (but I forget the reference now).s   K > I think that the Sun and Dell models of focusing on a single platform and 4 > excelling in it is perhaps going to be the winner.  H I'm not so certain that the single vendor approach is the way businessesH want to move forward. Do you know of any examples of companies that haveB over 90% of one vendors' systems? Does this single sourcing reduceG interoperability? The golden noose around a companies neck? "You bought0  it, now you have to pay for it".  H In summary I agree with your sentiments, but I believe what is happening@ over introducing UNIX portability into VMS is a very good thing.  C I guess the slides from the London and Vienna events will be online-B sometime, watch out for the one titled "VMS COE & UNIX Portability Initiatives"  D In the wider scheme of things, I'd say I see a plan coming together.B VMS, with everything it can do now and in the future coming to theH Itanium platform, which means that some UNIX portability should be there in those production releases.=  , So who's UNIX do you want to run on ITANIUM? linux, HP-UX, VMS-UNIX?s  0 Does this give the Tru64 people somewhere to go?? Will this be HP's offering for the little endian users of UNIX?oE Can you imagine how someone would react if you told them "Yes VMS can 
 run UNIX."  F My crystal ball is starting to fog, but the most important thing I see& is the opportunity is being put there.   --- ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:32:39 +020009 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>. Subject: Re: VMS versus IBM ' Message-ID: <3CBEA0C7.28CC9908@aaa.com>C  = They are, see :  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/index.html    Jan-Erik Sderholm   Nic Clews wrote: >  > E > I guess the slides from the London and Vienna events will be online D > sometime, watch out for the one titled "VMS COE & UNIX Portability > Initiatives" >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:40:51 +0200t2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> Subject: Re: VMS versus IBM2G Message-ID: <3cbebebf$0$27098$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>T  9 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragn! news:3CBEA0C7.28CC9908@aaa.com...F? > They are, see :  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/index.html  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm >O > Nic Clews wrote: > >y > > G > > I guess the slides from the London and Vienna events will be online F > > sometime, watch out for the one titled "VMS COE & UNIX Portability > > Initiatives" > >T   Check:  L http://www.compaq.at/events/templates/Event_ShowSubPage.asp?number=127&text= 3    (Ccheck out - URL may wrap!)   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:43:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h Subject: Re: VMS versus IBMU, Message-ID: <3CBF05AE.72E7EED2@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:I > Agreed, but you still have the hurdle to either convince the SAP peopled@ > they should invest in the VMS X.Y version to produce their VMSC > compatible SAP implementation, or release the source code so thatt > someone else could do it.e  L That is the  problem of a company such as Compaq or HP whose core product isN Wintel. If SAP only wants to do one port, they will port it to Compaq's "core"; product and Compaq's other products will not be considered.i  H This is why in the past, VMS was the target of many ports because it wasN Digital's core product and it was the one with all the software. The minute itN becomes a secondary product, the software migrates to the core product. And asU this begins, so do the customers and when customers migrate, so do more applicationsm  I > IBM has a philosophy that says we sell you the kit and the support, butaH > the premise is you run what you want on the kit, and will support whatG > you want to run on their kit. Part of their gamble I believe is basednD > around those with the so-called legacy applications who can re-useC > existing hardware and dip their toe in the 'open' water of linux.0  L The problem is that IBM has too many kits to sell. Will each platform retainN the critical mass necessary to continue to attract new software ? Adding LinuxK which will go from desktop to datacenter will affect all of IBM's products,iI except perhaps the bank applications that are so rooted in MVS manframes.a  J > I'm not so certain that the single vendor approach is the way businessesJ > want to move forward. Do you know of any examples of companies that have# > over 90% of one vendors' systems?r  L Sure. Plenty of companies are "compaq only". Remember that in the early 1990N until the end of the Y2K craze, Compaq was king for wintel in the office, from desktop to server.  E The big question is whether customers will want to deal with a singleaI supplier, or whether they will want to deal with multiple suppliers, each M being the best in what it does. So Dell for Wintel, Sun for Unix, and VMS forhI serious stuff, instead of buying  HP wintel, HP-UX, HP-linux etc, none of  which would be "best in breed".    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.214 ************************