1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 23 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 224       Contents: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV ! Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network  Alpha 3000/500 Re: Alpha 3000/500 Re: Alpha 3000/500 Re: Alpha 3000/500 Re: Alpha 3000/500 Alpha debugger (VMS 7.2-1) Re: Alpha debugger (VMS 7.2-1)N Announcing NetBeans 3.3.1 Integrated Development Environment for OpenVMS Alpha0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe+ Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards + Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards + Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards + Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards  Re: Blade architectures  Re: BUSINESS PROPOSAL  Re: Cache Performance  Re: Cache Performance  Re: Cache Performance  Re: Cache Performance P Can't install an extern SCSI h.d. IBM DPSS-318350N on OpenVMS 7.1, Alpha 200 4/1 Re: cluster  Re: creat function hanging- Re: getting SIMH 2.9-6/VAX + VMS configured ? - Re: getting SIMH 2.9-6/VAX + VMS configured ? 	 handoff.c 
 Re: handoff.c 5 Re: How to get latest version of Netscape for OpenVMS ) Re: How to prevent smtp relay w/Multinet? - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Keyboard and KVM Re: Keyboard and KVM RE: Keyboard and KVM Re: LAT ports problem  Re: LAT ports problem  Re: LAT ports problem > Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)1 Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated 9 Re: Major Virus Alert!  Better get on VMS now or bye bye! ; markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer) ? Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)  Re: Memory Corruption  Netscape and Mozilla Re: Netscape and Mozilla RE: Netscape and Mozilla Re: Netscape and Mozilla Re: Netscape and Mozilla RE: Netscape and Mozilla Re: Netscape and Mozilla RE: Netscape and Mozilla Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)  Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)  Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;) + Re: Optical Jukebox operation under OpenVMS - Re: password history list: back to the future 
 Re: PC Worker  Reading a file in java Re: Reading a file in java Re: Reading a file in java Re: Reading a file in java Re: Reading a file in java Re: Reading a file in java# SMTP mail error %UCX-E-SMTP_BADADDR  Suggestion: SET DEVICE/RESET tape problems #2O Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 , Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?, Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ? Re: VAX/Alpha CI Re: VAX/Alpha CI VAXCRTL and DECCRTLs on VAX  VI editor for OpenVMS? VI editor for OpenVMS? Re: VI editor for OpenVMS? Re: VI editor for OpenVMS? Re: VI editor for OpenVMS? RE: VI editor for OpenVMS? Re: VI editor for OpenVMS? Re: VI editor for OpenVMS? VMS 7.3-1 SDK?' Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org ( Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life( Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life( Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life( Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life) Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse , What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?0 Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?0 Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?0 Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?0 Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ? [java] running detached  Re: [java] running detached  Re: [java] running detached  Re: [java] running detached   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 05:29:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV3 Message-ID: <zpr+t2ZT6dPi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <3CC4DEF5.7020508@wasd.vsm.com.au>, Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > 8< snip 8<L >>>Nothing especially related to it being AST delivery, merely to allow the L >>>image running an otherwise vanilla account the ability to write and read ; >>>(in a controlled manner) in directories it does not own.  >>   >>  K >> Read and Write are not affected by SYSPRV.  Open and Create are affected K >> by SYSPRV.  Perform all your Open and Create operations in the mainline.  > F > Understood (the implication was open/create for read/write) but the N > application performs these on a non-determinate request basis, which drives  > the ASTs.   @ Do all the privilege-sensitive work at mainline level, and avoid3 DECthreads on all VAX and older Alpha VMS versions.   A > I didn't mean to be coy about it, this is the WASD Web server.    A If you are worried about client manipulation affecting operation, # a more thorough review is required.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:24:34 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> * Subject: Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network; Message-ID: <01KGWKKE3OOI8ZF8CR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KGHCBQO0E09EDY19@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... M > > > I've recently acquired an old VAX 4000-200 which I've got running quite N > > > sweetly on our network, however I want to upgrade VMS and have no accessM > > > to a CD-ROM. The VAX has an external SCSI connector but I don't have an N > > > external SCSI CD-ROM and wouldn't know which model to get which would be > > > compatible. Any ideas? > > I > > You could connect the machine containing the CD to the VAX via a SCSI K > > cable between the external connections.  As long as the cable length is H > > OK and there are no ID conflicts, you should be able to mount the CDJ > > from the VAX.  (I have never installed VMS from CD on VAX, but have onI > > ALPHA---also via this method.  For VAX, I copied the savesets from CD I > > (mounted on ALPHA) to VAX (mounted by the method described above) and  > > installed from disk.)  > M > Sounds feasible. How would I reference the remote drive? Would it recognise  > the drive when booting??  ? Just connect the external SCSI on the VAX to that of a machine  H containing the CD-ROM drive.  Power up the other machine but don't boot G it or whatever.  Power up the VAX.  SHOW DEVICE should show the CD-ROM  I drive on the other machine as DKAxxx or whatever.  Make sure the SCSI ID  : of the CD-ROM drive and the disk in the VAX are different.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 01:17:58 -0700# From: pg_bennett@hotmail.com (Paul)  Subject: Alpha 3000/500 = Message-ID: <227a9c11.0204230017.52e3d8f9@posting.google.com>   	 Hi there,   @ I am in the considering acquiring an Alpha 3000/500 (free).  CanF anyone point me toward the specifictions for this model ?  I have had C quick look around, but because of the the age of this machine there ! appears to be little information.   D I need the Alpha to run a legacy application that has been "tweaked"E and needs VMS 7.3 in order to run.  Will the above machine be capable E of this ?  I know nothing about the VMS/Alpha platform at the moment, # so any advice would be appreciated.    Thanks in advance      Paul   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 05:36:08 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Alpha 3000/500 3 Message-ID: <OfS5cIcpF9ZB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <227a9c11.0204230017.52e3d8f9@posting.google.com>, pg_bennett@hotmail.com (Paul) writes:  > Hi there,  > B > I am in the considering acquiring an Alpha 3000/500 (free).  CanH > anyone point me toward the specifictions for this model ?  I have had E > quick look around, but because of the the age of this machine there # > appears to be little information.  > F > I need the Alpha to run a legacy application that has been "tweaked"G > and needs VMS 7.3 in order to run.  Will the above machine be capable G > of this ?  I know nothing about the VMS/Alpha platform at the moment, % > so any advice would be appreciated.   : I am running V7.3 on its little brother, the DEC 3000/400.= You will need more than the minimum 32 MB of memory that came 9 with those machines when they were released.  It is quite 8 adequate, though not so fast as something newer and more
 expensive.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:48:10 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Alpha 3000/500 ) Message-ID: <3CC53BEA.264A68D4@127.0.0.1>    Paul wrote:  > B > I am in the considering acquiring an Alpha 3000/500 (free).  CanG > anyone point me toward the specifictions for this model ?  I have had E > quick look around, but because of the the age of this machine there # > appears to be little information.  > F > I need the Alpha to run a legacy application that has been "tweaked"G > and needs VMS 7.3 in order to run.  Will the above machine be capable G > of this ?  I know nothing about the VMS/Alpha platform at the moment, % > so any advice would be appreciated.   H http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/soc_archives/SOC_Archives.html  7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/supportchart.html   E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.html   ; Also go to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ and seek the FAQ.    This is the technical aspect.   E The legal aspect is something else. Acquiring the box free is not the ! same as getting the licence free.   H E.g. Acquire hardware, pay for transfer of licence (if it is useful) payH for upgrade to current version of VMS. Alternatively you may need to payG for a full licence if it cannot be transferred or was another operating  system.   H This will cost considerably more than the $200 that Microsoft would takeG from you, on the other hand you are investing in the Rolls Royce rather  than a golf cart.   H You should also consider enlisting the help of some experienced to grantH you the best from the environment if you are not skilled in this area, aG number of candidates are reading this list. This is another area not to  be skimped on cost.   > You used the word 'legacy', I think you'll find the dictionary@ definition quite accurate for the platform, I'm really glad that* Microsoft will never be described as such.   I trust this helps.  --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:34:51 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Alpha 3000/500 K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2304020734510001@1cust145.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   = In article <227a9c11.0204230017.52e3d8f9@posting.google.com>, $ pg_bennett@hotmail.com (Paul) wrote:  
 >Hi there, > A >I am in the considering acquiring an Alpha 3000/500 (free).  Can G >anyone point me toward the specifictions for this model ?  I have had  D >quick look around, but because of the the age of this machine there" >appears to be little information.  I You need to be very specific about the name of the machines.  IIRC, there I was an Alphastation 3000 series, and a DEC 3000 series.  There are not at  all similar.  J If it is a DEC 3000-500 system, you might be interested in this summary of the family:   D   http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.html  F The DEC 3000-500 is big and heavy in proportion to it's capabilities. H Expensive to ship.  But it will hold a lot of disks and takes up to 1 GB
 of memory.  J It will run VMS 7.3 just fine.  Many machines would run VMS faster/better,J but they would likely cost more.  (Hint:  you shouldn't pay much for a DEC
 3000-500.)  E >I need the Alpha to run a legacy application that has been "tweaked" F >and needs VMS 7.3 in order to run.  Will the above machine be capableF >of this ?  I know nothing about the VMS/Alpha platform at the moment,$ >so any advice would be appreciated.  E Go to www.openvms.compaq.com.  Read the OpenVMS FAQ.  Look at the VMS , documentation set that is available on-line.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:22:59 -0400   From: "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com> Subject: Re: Alpha 3000/500 / Message-ID: <ucarkrraghg8a1@corp.supernews.com>   H Like a previous responder, I too am running it's little brother, the DECL 3000/400.  I'm only running VMS 6.2 though.  Some things that I learned are:  G 1) VMS 7.2 is the last version that is specifically supported for a DEC F 3000/400.  Later versions of VMS may run, but they're not specifically> tested/supported.  This may be different for the DEC 3000/500.  K 2) For a DEC 3000/400 to run VMS 7.2, a firmware upgrade is needed.  I have G SROM V1.0, which apparently has a bug which prohibits certain firmaware K upgrades.  I would need to purchase new SROM (part #23-333E7-00) to upgrade : my firmware.   This may be different for the DEC 3000/500.  I 3) A VMS license, as well as licenses for their layered products are free J for hobbyists.  If you need a commercial license, you'll need to pay.  You? probably know this already.  I'm just stating the obvious.  See E http://www.encompassus.org/membership/ for details on joining and the  hobbyist license program.   K 4) I got several DEC 3000/400s, all running OSF-1.  Some with PMAGB-B video H adaptors, others with PMAG-Ds and PMAG-Fs.  The PMAGB-B worked just fineJ with VMS.  The others did not.  I never figured out why.  It would be nice to use a PMAG-F though!   I 5) I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but VMS is the best OS there  has ever been.  L Look for a message thread titled "DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem" in this newsH group started by "Dave" (me) for some details on the video card problem.( Good luck.  I hope you enjoy your Alpha.  K If any info above is oncorrect, I appologize.  Any corrections or additions ! are greatly appreciated.  Thanks.    -- Dave "stirkus ersu venete"     0 "Paul" <pg_bennett@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:227a9c11.0204230017.52e3d8f9@posting.google.com...  : Hi there,  : B : I am in the considering acquiring an Alpha 3000/500 (free).  CanG : anyone point me toward the specifictions for this model ?  I have had E : quick look around, but because of the the age of this machine there # : appears to be little information.  : F : I need the Alpha to run a legacy application that has been "tweaked"G : and needs VMS 7.3 in order to run.  Will the above machine be capable G : of this ?  I know nothing about the VMS/Alpha platform at the moment, % : so any advice would be appreciated.  :  : Thanks in advance  :  :  : Paul   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:55:15 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> # Subject: Alpha debugger (VMS 7.2-1) < Message-ID: <TQcx8.53757$nc.8583594@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  I I am investigating some very vague complaints.  I just received an e-mail H from a programmer where a group of them generally say that the Alpha VMSK 7.2-1 debugger is much less useful than the VAX VMS 7.1 Debugger.  They say K it "hangs, aborts and is generally not very good".   I am attempting to get I specific problem complaints, as well as examples where I can either check L accounting records, or better yet, a live example of a hung debug session so I can check quotas.   I However, in the mean time, I thought I would ask if there are any general L comments on the usability of the VMS 7.2-1 Debugger.  Does it have problems?I Are there updates?  Are there any ususal culprits (eg, pgfilquota, Enqlm,  etc)?    TIA,    J.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:15:39 +0000 (UTC) 1 From: sssslewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) ' Subject: Re: Alpha debugger (VMS 7.2-1) . Message-ID: <aa3tqr$32m$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes in article <TQcx8.53757$nc.8583594@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com> dated Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:55:15 GMT: J >However, in the mean time, I thought I would ask if there are any generalM >comments on the usability of the VMS 7.2-1 Debugger.  Does it have problems? J >Are there updates?  Are there any ususal culprits (eg, pgfilquota, Enqlm, >etc)?   Very useable but not perfect.e  J I made the transition from VAX to Alpha at the same time as the transition? from dumb terminals to X-windows, so some of this might be morer- DECwindows-related than architecture-related.n  K I used to have problems with apps which were run by "SPAWN/NOWAIT RUN/DEBUGeF .."; the debugger wouldn't come up until I hit [CR] a few times in theE terminal window.  I guess I would call that a "hang".  Now that I use I RUN/DETACH, the hanging problem is gone but it's harder in general to set : up.  The debugger requires a CLI, so I have to "RUN/DETACHL SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=X.COM" where X.COM contains a "SET DISPLAY" and a "RUN/DEBUG" command.    H The DECwindows debugger does not exit automatically on image rundown (orL even if you select the "exit?" function, but it does pop up an exit dialog.   K The alpha compiler optimizers generate machine code that is quite a trip toaC step through.  For most debugging tasks it's better to compile with  /NOOPTIMIZE.    + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:49:32 GMT 2 From: "Meg Garrison" <meg.garrison@xxcompaqxx.com>W Subject: Announcing NetBeans 3.3.1 Integrated Development Environment for OpenVMS AlphaA9 Message-ID: <wggx8.28$1Z4.708727@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>b  F Compaq is pleased to make available NetBeans Version 3.3.1 for OpenVMSJ Alpha. This is the third version of NetBeans on the OpenVMS platform - andJ the latest NetBeans version currently available (on any platform). You can& download your copy free of charge now!  < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/  I NetBeans is a cornerstone of OpenVMS Engineering's long-range strategy to I deliver the best Java tools available to the OpenVMS developer community.aL NetBeans is widely considered the leading open-source integrated development5 environment (IDE) for Java and JavaBeans development.e  F As part of its commitment, OpenVMS Engineering is also introducing newI plug-in modules for NetBeans especially designed to maximize the value ofeG NetBeans to the OpenVMS developer community. Not available on any otheraC platform, these modules support EDT keypad functionality, C and C++ E compiling and editing, and CMS version control (soon to be released).  Details available from:.  H http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/modules.html  J With Version 3.3.1, significant improvements have been made to NetBeans inJ the area of overall performance (especially with respect to startup time),I the GUI form editor and version control system, as well as resolving many 
 other issues.0  D Written in 100 percent pure Java, NetBeans is a modular IDE that wasC open-sourced by Sun Microsystems. Its popularity is a result of itsaL versatility, extensible architecture, and relative ease of use. Key features are:.   * Support for the Java, C/C++, XML, and HTMLJ   * Support for JSP, XML, RMI, CORBA, JINI, JDBC, and servlet technologies/   * Support for Ant, CVS, and CMS (coming soon)iE   * Pluggable support for compilers, debuggers and execution servicesn3   * GUI form designer and other visual design toolsl4   * Wizards for code generation and management tools%   * Syntax-highlighting source editorm   Regards,    The Compaq OpenVMS NetBeans Team  L Java and all Java-based marks are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun3 Microsystems, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:23:10 +0100UT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybej& Message-ID: <3CC5603E.2040508@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:33:46 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:. >  >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>; >>>Aw, and I thought you said you *weren't* a market-droid.  >>>aN >>>Come on, admit it.  You're in sales right?  Never really have done anythingF >>>technical.  Right?  You getting a lot of business from these posts? >>>e >>>  >>>  >>8 >>How intriguing, rather than answer the points you have8 >>instead used the classic sales tactic of attempting to >>change the subject.n >>$ >>How about answering the question ? >>8 >>Why do you claim that Alpha and GS boxes have industry8 >>leading server performance when none of your benchmark >>results show this. >> >> >  > G > OMFG... I almost laughed out loud hearing/reading this post from you.u > H > You are on a real roll with these pot-and-kettle postings this year... > and it's only April!!! >     6 It is only April, you have had a week to trawl through5 deja/google to produce the examples of where you have & "wacked" me in a technical discussion.  5 I would say that 2 weeks should be long enough so youc7 have until the end of April after which I would suggest : that you give up on this line of argument it isn't getting
 you anywhere.    Regards and waiting expectantlyh Andrew HarrisonB   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:06:02 +0100k, From: Paul Williams <flo@uk.thalesgroup.com>4 Subject: Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards2 Message-ID: <3CC515EA.C1C8FEC7@uk.thalesgroup.com>   JF Mezei wrote:v > F > I have noticed that more and more web sites now serve their contentsC > with a charset "windows-1252" instead of the expected iso latin 1  > one  iso-8859-1. > @ > I suspect both are quite similar, but this is a real pain thatB > microsoft can't use standard character sets. Heck, I even got anC > email from someone using outlook express on a mac and it was sent?$ > with a charset of windows-1252 :-(  7 Windows-1252 is in the IANA register of character sets:w  . http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets  B I'm not sure how you can characterise use of this set as "breaking standards".    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:41:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards, Message-ID: <3CC51E4E.481716C2@videotron.ca>   Paul Williams wrote:0 > http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets > D > I'm not sure how you can characterise use of this set as "breaking
 > standards".t  M Because the *expected* character set for the internet is iso-latin-1 for both N HTML and emails. Yes, the standard does allow for proprietary character sets.   H But folks like netscape etc will convert a platform's character set intoM iso-latin-1. Why can't windows do the same ? (woprse offender is outlook on aAL mac which converts from the mac character set into the microsoft proprietary one).   N Since the windows one is very close to ISO-latin-1 , why not use the latin-1 ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:49:48 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 4 Subject: Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards/ Message-ID: <ucb0l1qcuvfm1e@news.supernews.com>,  J What's the point of using character sets if everyone's supposed to use the	 same set?   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CC51E4E.481716C2@videotron.ca... > Paul Williams wrote:2 > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets > >lF > > I'm not sure how you can characterise use of this set as "breaking > > standards".  > J > Because the *expected* character set for the internet is iso-latin-1 for bothI > HTML and emails. Yes, the standard does allow for proprietary characters sets.  >SJ > But folks like netscape etc will convert a platform's character set intoJ > iso-latin-1. Why can't windows do the same ? (woprse offender is outlook on aB > mac which converts from the mac character set into the microsoft proprietaryi > one).a >tF > Since the windows one is very close to ISO-latin-1 , why not use the	 latin-1 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:47:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n4 Subject: Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards, Message-ID: <3CC59E1A.EDE8FCE9@videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote:h > L > What's the point of using character sets if everyone's supposed to use the > same set?m  L What is the point of using english as standard language for thsi newsgroup ?  G has it ever occured to you that it is MUCH SIMPLER to have all softwarerJ exchange data in a very small number of character sets as opposed to everyP piece of software having to be aware of all possible character sets that exist ?  K If 2 windows boxes want to talk to each othert, I have no problem with them0L using whatever they want. But when they talk to the internet, shouldn't they use a standard characters set ?a   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 23 Apr 02 08:07:34 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.com   Subject: Re: Blade architectures+ Message-ID: <aa3gpd$a7j$2@bob.news.rcn.net>r  + In article <aa18d0$f64$1@news.btv.ibm.com>,A$    hack@watson.ibm.com (hack) wrote:C >In article <thvv-84CD94.17574819042002@news.comcast.giganews.com>,o, >Tom Van Vleck  <thvv@multicians.org> wrote: >n6 >>The idea was that reading a bunch of records in with= >>one I/O and no lost latencies is attractive.  For N recordss7 >>you save N-1 latencies and N-1 pagefault round trips.o< >>But they discovered that the cost is that you have to free8 >>up and dedicate main memory space for all N records to3 >>be read into, and this increases memory pressure,t8 >>causing additional competition for main memory (showed< >>up as more paging for us) by a factor just about equal to " >>all the savings from swapping.   >.D >This observation does indeed kill the idea of generic read-ahead inE >a memory-constrained system (which late-70's Multics certainly was).yD >In the case of an executable file and a file system capable of good >sequential allocation,l  0 Which are not disks that have spinning platters.  3 > .. there is a difference however:  those N memorytD >pages will be required anyway -- a substantial fraction thereof, atF >least, in most cases.  (In those days programs didn't contain as much) >dead space as in today's monster blobs.)i< That's why there's buffered mode I/O.  The OS can fill/empty= buffers while the user program goes merrily on its way.  Thise; is one of those magics where synchronous things can be donen asynchronously by the OS.t   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:03:03 +0100m- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>- Subject: Re: BUSINESS PROPOSAL1 Message-ID: <3CC54D77.F1079512@BlueBubble.UK.Com>r   Matthew Ogburu wrote:e   > Attn., >cf > First, I must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction. This is by virtue of its naturea > as being utterly confidential and "top secret".  We are top officials of the Federal Government:g > Contract Review Panel who are interested in importation of goods into our country with funds that areth > presently trapped in Nigeria. In order to commence this business, we solicit your assistance to enable7 > us transfer into your account the said-trapped funds.    Dear Dr. Matthew,p  P I read with great interest your proposal.  I agree this must remain in strictestI confidence, utterly confidential and "top secret".  I am however a littleCJ concerned that this may have been leaked into the public (I'm not sure howJ many people are on the Info-VAX mailing list ... I'm sure it can't be more? than 2 or 3, myself included, so I'm not too bothered by that).s  F I've tried to phone you on the telephone numbers you gave me, but theyG don't appear to work.  I'd appreciate it very much if you could give me  a call on 4-1-9 4-1-9 4-1-9.  E Looking forward very much to participating in this quite clearly very0 worthwhile cause.l   Yours,   Buddy Weiserman.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:01:54 +0200b From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Cache Performance& Message-ID: <3CC4F8D2.4050906@home.nl>  G You're absolutely right. The 6400 pages value is far to small for most n systems.  Rule of thumb that works for me: do a SHO MEM /CACHE /FULL.C If you have no cache memory free, then your cache size is to small.    Regards,   Dirk   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote::   >OK.< >VCC_MAXSIZE = 6400 (the default) -> 3.2 Mb cache. Not much.: >You had 2.5 G mem, so I'd start with VCC_MAXSIZE = 100000= >for a 50 Mb cache. Then, one have to check the read hit rateS# >to see if thats the "right" value.V >7< >I'm positiv that the other products used *much* more memory7 >than 3.2 Mb, so you can't realy compare them that way.  >  >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >o >d >T >Bill Clark wrote: >r' >>greetings  (thanks for the response).0 >> >> yes, VIOC is the tool.g >> VCC_MAXSIZE = 6400.3 >> default settings on the dual HSZ-50 controllers.t0 >> measurements are primarily hit-rate, but also8 >> have 'benchmarked' several tasks for elapsed runtime. >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:32:19 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>i Subject: Re: Cache Performance' Message-ID: <3CC4FFF3.822EE7F1@aaa.com>y  2 Right, on my system I changed the default value of1 VCC_MAXSIZE of  6400 to 512000 aprox 20 days ago.i0 (3.2 Mb cache -> 256 Mb cache). It was obviously8 to much. I now get the following stats (21 days uptime):   Virtual I/O Cache C  Total Size (Kbytes)       256000  Read IO Count           47797344 C  Free Kbytes               248688  Read Hit Count          23236863uC  Kbytes in Use               7312  Read Hit Rate                48%tC  Write IO Bypassing Cache   79628  Write IO Count           5757670fC  Files Retained                99  Read IO Bypassing Cache  7884673s  * Note the rellatively low "Kbytes in Use" !A A better value for VCC_MAXSIZE could be something like 7312*2 or,h let's say, 15-20000.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.        Dirk Munk wrote: > H > You're absolutely right. The 6400 pages value is far to small for most
 > systems." > Rule of thumb that works for me: > do a SHO MEM /CACHE /FULL.E > If you have no cache memory free, then your cache size is to small.h > 
 > Regards, >  > Dirk >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:32:30 GMTi$ From: "Bill Clark" <bclark@lrgh.org> Subject: Re: Cache PerformanceC Message-ID: <Ondx8.142813$3L2.12897823@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>    thanks to all.A good suggestions; i will bump the MAXSIZE up considerably for the  next boot and see what happens.o
 again thanks.a    3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messagel! news:3CC471C8.918C9E5E@aaa.com...v > OK.l= > VCC_MAXSIZE = 6400 (the default) -> 3.2 Mb cache. Not much. ; > You had 2.5 G mem, so I'd start with VCC_MAXSIZE = 1000005> > for a 50 Mb cache. Then, one have to check the read hit rate$ > to see if thats the "right" value. >5= > I'm positiv that the other products used *much* more memorys8 > than 3.2 Mb, so you can't realy compare them that way. >a > Jan-Erik Sderholm.u >f >e >e > Bill Clark wrote:A > >V) > > greetings  (thanks for the response).  > >A > >  yes, VIOC is the tool.  > >  VCC_MAXSIZE = 6400.5 > >  default settings on the dual HSZ-50 controllers.p2 > >  measurements are primarily hit-rate, but also: > >  have 'benchmarked' several tasks for elapsed runtime. > >x >l   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 09:25:03 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)r Subject: Re: Cache Performance= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204230825.191a0a0c@posting.google.com>r  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3CC4FFF3.822EE7F1@aaa.com>... 4 > Right, on my system I changed the default value of3 > VCC_MAXSIZE of  6400 to 512000 aprox 20 days ago.u2 > (3.2 Mb cache -> 256 Mb cache). It was obviously > to much. S  * I found it was a fun thing to play with...   Virtual I/O Cache.@   Total Size (Mb)         87.89   Read IO Count          4156570@   Free (Mb)               17.01   Read Hit Count         2743444@   In Use (Mb)             70.87   Read Hit Rate              66%  @ set up on our main box some time ago (was rebooted two days ago,B so not a good example), however set much greater on my workstationC where I play with, CONVERT, SEARCH, and otherwise stuff around with C 100 to 200MB+ text files (student downloads). At this time I've gotiC an AS600 (256MB) instead of my PWS600AU (768MB) so am not currentlyrG set up to enjoy that advantage (a large setting helped with the 768MB).m  6 I have corrupted data using XFC - on a test box - used? ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR from 7.2-1 - actually during an offline upgradetC of the production system. XFC came in enabled on this configuration @ which is as documented "This is the default for Alpha systems.".B The data corruption was interesting to behold - the system did not= even boot properly (the whole excercise was in the ?*WTF*? isaF happening dept.) the appropriate comment is currently in MODPARAMS.DAT( warning against even touching VCC_FLAGS.  H OTOH, I'm using XFC on my home Alpha, however, as a stand alone node and there are no problems thus far.t   $ show mem/cachc@               System Memory Resources on 24-APR-2002 02:00:15.65  B Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 23-APR-2002 21:50:10.14)N     Allocated (Mbytes)           25.65    Maximum size (Mbytes)         128.00N     Free (Mbytes)                 0.17    Minimum size (Mbytes)           0.23N     In use (Mbytes)              25.47    Percentage Read I/Os             95%N     Read hit rate                  59%    Write hit rate                    0%   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 10:25:07 -0700) From: emuntean@newlog.com (Eugen Muntean)1Y Subject: Can't install an extern SCSI h.d. IBM DPSS-318350N on OpenVMS 7.1, Alpha 200 4/1h= Message-ID: <304099f8.0204230925.512ebddd@posting.google.com>.  F I have an Alpha 200 4/166Mhz with 2 hdd (dka0 - OpenVMS 6.2 and dka100C - OpenVMS 7.1). I tried to connect an external SCSI drive having anfF IBM DPSS-318350N disk (17 GO), for initialing and mounting to the VMS.  B Before the boot of the OS, I can see the disk, like dka300, unsing "show" command.e  B After I boot OpenVMS (6.2 or 7.1) the "show device" command gives:  F Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans MntiF  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count Cntl. VGER$DKA0:              Online               0F VGER$DKA100:            Mounted              0  SYSTEM          628587	   331   1o. VGER$DKA300:            Offline              1. VGER$DVA0:              Online               0 ...v   The initialize command failed.  C Note, that the SCSI disk was connected to a W2k machine, via a SCSInF card, using the same external drive, and it worked well. It has a 1 GO, NTFS, a 0,5 GO FAT and 15,5 free partitions.   Could anyone help me?   
 Best regards,n
 Eugen Munteano
 Gresham Parisl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:44:43 -0400e1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>u Subject: Re: cluster2 Message-ID: <3CC5654B.EF555777@clarityconnect.com>  ? I suspect that they were actually thinking about MSCP_SERVE_ALLu   Phillip Helbig wrote:, > I > > Next you have some control over what kind of disks you want to share,eL > > system disk or not etc (try MC SYSGEN HELP SYS_PARA MSCP_LOAD) if you'reL > > on V7.3 or later. Before that you could turn serving disks (tapes) on or > > off with (T)MSCP_SERVE_ALL.  > H > The output of MC SYSGEN HELP SYS_PARA MSCP_LOAD is the same on 7.3 and/ > 7.2-1H1.  Has any functionality changed here?t   -- eC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYe0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 10:45:43 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)# Subject: Re: creat function hanging-= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0204230945.33c87870@posting.google.com>A  B I do not have internet access from my main terminal. I will post a snippet of code ASAP.i  1 Thanks so far for your advice. It will be useful.r    y wat_een_onzin@hotmail.com (Hein van den Heuvel) wrote in message news:<8257bef1.0204222039.a6d574f@posting.google.com>... s > bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron) wrote in message news:<b22333b7.0204220950.3b923913@posting.google.com>...  > I > > To perform the I/O on the files I have to use the creat() function tosB > > open the file descriptors with the appropriate RMS parameters. > 
 > An example?n > G > > program hangs (and enters an infinite loop by all inidications fromnI > > the show process command) and will not go beyond the execution of the G > > creat() function. I know this because I have placed cout statementseC > > before and after it and only the ones immediately before it areo > % > And what does $show proc/cont show?tC > - CPU clinking away? Follow with MONI MODE... Exec (RMS)? Kernel?a& > - IO Count incrementing like crazy? $ > - Wait state? WHich one? LEF, HIB? > A > A classical reason for seemingly never ending create statements D > ai a _very_ large preallocation (ALQ=xxx) in an open mode forcing F > where the high-water-marking can not be relied on forcing the systemF > (xqp) to pre-write zeroes for security reasons (anti-data-scaveging) > 6 > You may have to use ANAL/SYSTEM to get more details:& > $spawn/nowait/proc="TEST" "run test"% > $analy/system ... set proc test ...o/ >   show proc/chan ---> verify bsy channel/disk11 >   show proc/rms=fab ---> verify bsy fab/channel ( >   show proc/lock ---> waiting for one?$ >   show lock...  who is holding it? >  > Good luck, >     Hein.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 07:06:02 GMT' From: huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.aup6 Subject: Re: getting SIMH 2.9-6/VAX + VMS configured ?O Message-ID: <8C833DF24FF427DF.335DB6CE99854D4B.F483FE1024EC2292@lp.airnews.net>w  ( huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au wrote:V > I'm running SIMH 2.9-6/VAX on my Alpha PWS500a running Linux. I'm running RedHat 7.10 > with a custom built kernel version 2.4.13-ac8.    S > I guess the questions is, Has anyone got 7.3 to boot? I will pick up a 7.2CD from-H > work tomorrow to test this out. I would have thought 7.3 should work, 1 > after all, it's supported according to the SPD!b  K OK, the issue was the version of gcc I was using (3.0.2). After recompilingiF it using the Compaq C compiler for Linux/Alpha I can successfully bootI from the 7.3 CD into stand alone backup. As I type this I'm attempting to"% boot off root 1 to do a full install.s  H It worries me that DUA1 (my CD rom) has gone into mount verification and( not come back yet. I'll give it a while.   I'll give an update later.   --  ? Huw Davies          | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.aun=                     | "If God had wanted soccer played in the ;                     | air, the sky would be painted green" p   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 13:28:09 GMT' From: huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au-6 Subject: Re: getting SIMH 2.9-6/VAX + VMS configured ?O Message-ID: <E78793F4D89ECB9D.D04FDA7BDE0B4E3E.F09F12A9B483A121@lp.airnews.net>t  ( huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au wrote: >fM > OK, the issue was the version of gcc I was using (3.0.2). After recompilingeH > it using the Compaq C compiler for Linux/Alpha I can successfully bootK > from the 7.3 CD into stand alone backup. As I type this I'm attempting tom' > boot off root 1 to do a full install.e  J > It worries me that DUA1 (my CD rom) has gone into mount verification and* > not come back yet. I'll give it a while.  L Booting from the CD into standalone backup and then restoring the .B savesetN onto the new system disk, and then doing a normal install has got me a working system.   O Once I understand simh better, maybe I can try to establish what the differenceiI is between the code generated by gcc and ccc that causes simh to fail on aI Linux/alpha when compiled with gcc. (I indicated that I had problems withiL 3.0.2 but had the same the same the same problems with 2.something as well).   -- e? Huw Davies          | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.aup=                     | "If God had wanted soccer played in theo;                     | air, the sky would be painted green"     ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 14:19:41 GMT From: vanja@vmsbox.cjb.net Subject: handoff.cD Message-ID: <3cc56d7d$0$10245$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>   Hi!g  ; I have found out that Mr. Aaron Leonard posted this messagee
 back in 1996:u  Y http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&selm=01I9FF7ZR2J2QO5Z7K%40TGV.COMc  < However, the FTP site he talks about is gone, and I couldn't: find handoff.c anywhere on the web, or by using ftpsearch.  ) Does anyone know where I could find this?n   Thanks.i   Vanja    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:46:59 GMTh From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGe Subject: Re: handoff.c0 Message-ID: <00A0CE3C.A1F83BA5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <3cc56d7d$0$10245$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>, vanja@vmsbox.cjb.net writes:n >Hi! > < >I have found out that Mr. Aaron Leonard posted this message >back in 1996: >:Z >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&selm=01I9FF7ZR2J2QO5Z7K%40TGV.COM >u= >However, the FTP site he talks about is gone, and I couldn'tf; >find handoff.c anywhere on the web, or by using ftpsearch.v > * >Does anyone know where I could find this? >1 >Thanks. >u >Vanja >  >u  H Try posting your question to vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet.  The folksI lurking there may have a copy of this code or know of a URL where you canm
 obtain it.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             oJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:13:49 +0200e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>> Subject: Re: How to get latest version of Netscape for OpenVMS& Message-ID: <3CC4FB9D.2080305@home.nl>  / You don't mention if you're using Vax or Alpha.sH If it is Alpha, you can find 2 links on Compaq's OpenVMS pages, one for H the Compaq Secure Web Browser (based on Mozilla 0.9.6), and one for the J Mozilla V 1.0 release candidate. (Netscape V6 is a Mozilla 0.9.x version).> If it is Vax, you're stuck to Netscape V 3.03 gold I'm afraid.   Regards,   Dirk  e   Tom Linden wrote:e  5 >On 7.1-2 I have a brain dead browser called NetscapeS; >(not obvious how to determine which version, and basically-> >unimportant anyway)  I thought I would try to install a later? >version, but NOOOOH the Compaq site is worthless and Netscape :; >keeps putting me to some for retardates because my version. >is so old.a >e0 >Anybody have a good URL to accomplish the task? >i   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 02 08:00:36 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comt2 Subject: Re: How to prevent smtp relay w/Multinet?( Message-ID: <fcAQzxgE1oUW@cpva.saic.com>  , In article <aa28ve$gte$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>,.  "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> writes:- > Lawrence Bleau <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote:od >> In article <U8DEKq1bopn8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:` >>>In article <a9q7bm$9qr$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes: >>>> iR >>>> Also, I just did a DIR MULTINET:SMTP*.* and there is no such rejection file. * >>>> If I just create it, will it be used? >>>i >>>	What version?  >  >> V4.0  > G > I think that is too old a version to include a rejection file.  Don'thJ > remember exactly when that feature was added, but think it was in 4.1 or > 4.2 of Multinet. >   M Supported as of 4.0 rev C per the posting found at the following wrapped URL:r  4 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=SMTP_SERVER_REJECTC &start=50&hl=en&selm=6mdvt3%24315%241%40mailhost2.dtc.co.jp&rnum=59y    
 > Joe Heimannc >  > heimann@ecs.umass.edus   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:02:12 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!& Message-ID: <3CC53F34.2000402@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > Ahhh Andrew, Andrew .. > 8 > Looking to be a tad on the crusty side these days eh ? >  > :-)a >  >  >>>>Its free.<<< >>>> > J > Great. Btw - is there an external link to where Customers with a historyG > of these ecc errors, can go to better understand how they can replace_ > all their CPU modules?   >     : No all customers need to do is contact their service reps.     > E >>>>Will you be charging for Marvel or giving it to the customers whor >>>>I > found that the WildFires didn't meet the performance hype you generated  > ??<<<. > J > Lets see now .. Known Engineering HW issue (Sun ecc errors) acknowledgedD > by Sun that it is a problem (to the point of making Customers signG > non-disclosures if they want it fixed) vs a whole new system (Marvel)-D > with an entire new architecture and the only one complaining aboutD > current GS Series performance is a direct competitor with ZERO TPCG > results on the top 10 that it did itself (see note below on Fijitsu).  >     > Try harder Kerry, you claim that Alpha servers provide leadingA performance but none, nadda, zero, zilch of your public benchmark F results show this in fact they show the reverse, Alpha servers deliver? trailing performance not leading on commercial type benchmarks.   @ Sun hasn't done a TPC-C number recently and no I am not going toC be drawn into speculating what if any results we will be publishingR> thats an excercise that you lot do to your shame. Remember the WildFire TPC-C TPM claims.  C However on the benchmarks we have published SAP, TPC-H, Oracle Apps D etc we easily exceed the best numbers published by you for WildFiresB using the same benchmarks. I have detailed the performance gaps in1 previous emails with numbers. Not "Quantum Leap".r  C In addition on TPC-C other vendors have published TPC-C numbers and:A HP and Fujitsu easily exceed the WildFire numbers (without OPS inlC a box) while an IBM P680 (their mid range) is 5% slower while usingO 24 rather than 32 CPU's.  D So this claim of leading performance is and was incorrect, there hasG never been any evidence to support it. So any customer buying a machine2H on the basis of its claimed performance or scalability would be entitledG to claim that you had sold them a pup, in that circumstance giving themsH a free Marvel box would seem like a fair exchange for the dissapointment that they have had to endure.e  B Customer my GS320/160 is slower than the GS140 it relpaced and you told me it would be faster.s  E Compaq that would be the version of Tru64 you are running the one youh/ have isn't tuned for NUMA, you need to upgrade.    Customer OK.  H Customer my GS320/160 is still slower than the GS140 it replaced and you told me it would be faster.s  F Compaq that would be the version of Oracle you are running the one youD have isn't tuned for NUMA, you need to upgrade to 8.1.7 because that has been tuned for NUMA.   Customer OK.  H Customer my GS320/160 is still slower than the GS140 it replaced and you told me it would be faster.i  F Compaq that would be because the GS320/160 is a NUMA machine, in order3 to solve this problem you need to run OPS in a box.    Customer give me my GS140 back.h    + > Sorry, I don't see any resemblance there.  > J > By the way - if the performance is as bad as you say it is on GS Series,H > then where are the screaming Customers in the press like the ecc cache9 > stories generated (and I can post those if you'd like)?  >     A Post away, I can name 3 high profile customers in the UK+EIRE who@- have had the conversation I detailed earlier.h  C The point however is that Sun has admitted that they have a problemuA with Ecache and fixed it for free. Compaq keeps claiming that the A GS boxes are top performers and they arn't, they never have been.   > Compaq keep claiming that Alpha is synonymous with Performance= and Scalability while public benchmarks show the opposite for4: performance and there is no supporting data either way for scalability.  B Sun has data to back up our performance claims and has scalabilityD data as well and thats before you include people like Aberdeen Group1 who have done their own Scalability tests on Sun.d  B I for example can tell you exactly how scalable a 72 CPU F15000 isC when compared with a single CPU machine using a number of differentr< DBMS queries you cannot for Alpha's or you won't publish the data.h    J > As far as your request for performance numbers go, while not at the top,G > even though it is soon to be replaced with new servers (recent Marvel D > announcement) the GS320 is certainly holding its own on the top 10J > standalone TPC numbers (number 3 and 9) where Sun owned HW/SW is .. Oops > - not even on the top 10.m    H No it isn't holding its own. HP, Fujitsu have faster and cheaper systemsG by a wide margin and IBM's mid range is 5% slower and much cheaper. SunnF hasn't published a number. If holding your own is 4th (you lose the 5%5 gain for using OPS) then your aspirations arn't high.o  A How about a new campaign. Compaq we are 4th fastest (at least itso truthfull).P  H And don't just concentrate in TPC-C or against Sun, your claims are thatD you provide the fastest most scalable systems they say nothing aboutG what measure (fortunately for you) or which vendor you are refering to.   @ There are other commercial benchmarks, Oracle Apps, SAP, TPC-H, < PeopleSoft, SPECJBB etc some of which you have done and your. performance frankly sucks and some you havn't.       >  > Ahhh.. Just like old times ..- > 	 > :-) :-)r >     9 What you mean Kerry messes up in public then yes its justu like old times.a   Regardsn Andrew HarrisonS   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:05:15 -04005+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>h6 Subject: RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EB4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Sigh ..   E Andrew - I don't have time for this "mine is bigger than yours" right, now ..  H >>> So this claim of leading performance is and was incorrect, there hasG never been any evidence to support it. So any customer buying a machineeH on the basis of its claimed performance or scalability would be entitledG to claim that you had sold them a pup, in that circumstance giving themDH a free Marvel box would seem like a fair exchange for the dissapointment  that they have had to endure.<<<  & Wow, talk about creative writing ..=20   :-)   E The GS Series servers is providing very acceptable performance and ishG currently number 3 and 9 on the top 10 TPC numbers. As far as the other H benchmarks are concerned, stay tuned with respect to upcoming Marvel EV7 based server numbers.O   :-)    RegardsT  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesu Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancym6 [mailto:andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com]=20 Sent: April 23, 2002 7:02 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 Subject: Re: I was right! Alpha will live in Itanium!,         Main, Kerry wrote:   > Ahhh Andrew, Andrew .. >=208 > Looking to be a tad on the crusty side these days eh ? >=20 > :-)P >=20 >=20 >>>>Its free.<<< >>>> >=20E > Great. Btw - is there an external link to where Customers with a=20iJ > history of these ecc errors, can go to better understand how they can=20  > replace all their CPU modules? >=20    : No all customers need to do is contact their service reps.     >=20E >>>>Will you be charging for Marvel or giving it to the customers who  >>>>B > found that the WildFires didn't meet the performance hype you=20 > generated ??<<<m >=20@ > Lets see now .. Known Engineering HW issue (Sun ecc errors)=20E > acknowledged by Sun that it is a problem (to the point of making=20RI > Customers sign non-disclosures if they want it fixed) vs a whole new=20nE > system (Marvel) with an entire new architecture and the only one=20IH > complaining about current GS Series performance is a direct competitor  H > with ZERO TPC results on the top 10 that it did itself (see note below   > on Fijitsu). >=20    > Try harder Kerry, you claim that Alpha servers provide leadingA performance but none, nadda, zero, zilch of your public benchmark9F results show this in fact they show the reverse, Alpha servers deliver? trailing performance not leading on commercial type benchmarks.   C Sun hasn't done a TPC-C number recently and no I am not going to beaF drawn into speculating what if any results we will be publishing thatsG an excercise that you lot do to your shame. Remember the WildFire TPC-Cr TPM claims.n  G However on the benchmarks we have published SAP, TPC-H, Oracle Apps etciF we easily exceed the best numbers published by you for WildFires usingE the same benchmarks. I have detailed the performance gaps in previousc( emails with numbers. Not "Quantum Leap".  F In addition on TPC-C other vendors have published TPC-C numbers and HPE and Fujitsu easily exceed the WildFire numbers (without OPS in a box) F while an IBM P680 (their mid range) is 5% slower while using 24 rather than 32 CPU's.  D So this claim of leading performance is and was incorrect, there hasG never been any evidence to support it. So any customer buying a machineoH on the basis of its claimed performance or scalability would be entitledG to claim that you had sold them a pup, in that circumstance giving them1H a free Marvel box would seem like a fair exchange for the dissapointment that they have had to endure.l  G Customer my GS320/160 is slower than the GS140 it relpaced and you told- me it would be faster.  E Compaq that would be the version of Tru64 you are running the one youj/ have isn't tuned for NUMA, you need to upgrade.?   Customer OK.  H Customer my GS320/160 is still slower than the GS140 it replaced and you told me it would be faster.r  F Compaq that would be the version of Oracle you are running the one youH have isn't tuned for NUMA, you need to upgrade to 8.1.7 because that has been tuned for NUMA.   Customer OK.  H Customer my GS320/160 is still slower than the GS140 it replaced and you told me it would be faster.3  F Compaq that would be because the GS320/160 is a NUMA machine, in order3 to solve this problem you need to run OPS in a box.    Customer give me my GS140 back.m    + > Sorry, I don't see any resemblance there.  >=20E > By the way - if the performance is as bad as you say it is on GS=20tI > Series, then where are the screaming Customers in the press like the=20DC > ecc cache stories generated (and I can post those if you'd like)?i >=20    F Post away, I can name 3 high profile customers in the UK+EIRE who have( had the conversation I detailed earlier.  H The point however is that Sun has admitted that they have a problem withE Ecache and fixed it for free. Compaq keeps claiming that the GS boxes-8 are top performers and they arn't, they never have been.  B Compaq keep claiming that Alpha is synonymous with Performance andE Scalability while public benchmarks show the opposite for performanceA; and there is no supporting data either way for scalability.t  G Sun has data to back up our performance claims and has scalability dataeH as well and thats before you include people like Aberdeen Group who have( done their own Scalability tests on Sun.  G I for example can tell you exactly how scalable a 72 CPU F15000 is whenuC compared with a single CPU machine using a number of different DBMSo= queries you cannot for Alpha's or you won't publish the data..    H > As far as your request for performance numbers go, while not at the=20H > top, even though it is soon to be replaced with new servers (recent=20 > MarvelD > announcement) the GS320 is certainly holding its own on the top 10E > standalone TPC numbers (number 3 and 9) where Sun owned HW/SW is ..a Oops > - not even on the top 10.l    H No it isn't holding its own. HP, Fujitsu have faster and cheaper systemsG by a wide margin and IBM's mid range is 5% slower and much cheaper. SuneF hasn't published a number. If holding your own is 4th (you lose the 5%5 gain for using OPS) then your aspirations arn't high.h  A How about a new campaign. Compaq we are 4th fastest (at least its- truthfull).-  H And don't just concentrate in TPC-C or against Sun, your claims are thatD you provide the fastest most scalable systems they say nothing aboutG what measure (fortunately for you) or which vendor you are refering to.o  B There are other commercial benchmarks, Oracle Apps, SAP, TPC-H,=20H PeopleSoft, SPECJBB etc some of which you have done and your performance" frankly sucks and some you havn't.       >=20 > Ahhh.. Just like old times ..w >=20	 > :-) :-)t >=20    9 What you mean Kerry messes up in public then yes its just  like old times.-   Regards- Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:46:19 +0100RT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!$ Message-ID: <3CC581CB.70608@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Sigh ..d > G > Andrew - I don't have time for this "mine is bigger than yours" right= > now .. >  > H >>>>So this claim of leading performance is and was incorrect, there has >>>>I > never been any evidence to support it. So any customer buying a machinefJ > on the basis of its claimed performance or scalability would be entitledI > to claim that you had sold them a pup, in that circumstance giving themtJ > a free Marvel box would seem like a fair exchange for the dissapointment" > that they have had to endure.<<< > & > Wow, talk about creative writing ..      Talk about creative reading.  A You claim leading Performance for the GS boxes, even on the basisa@ of the one benchmark you have singled out TPC-C this claim isn't
 justified.  @ The GS320 is third behind Fujitsu and HP and only 5% faster thanA a 24 CPU IBM P680 despite having to use OPS in a box. The Fujitsuc2 the HP and the IBM are all cheaper than the GS320.  C So third or 4th depending on your perspective. Leading means in theu% lead, in front, first not 3rd or 4th.a     >  > :-)2 > G > The GS Series servers is providing very acceptable performance and issI > currently number 3 and 9 on the top 10 TPC numbers. As far as the othereJ > benchmarks are concerned, stay tuned with respect to upcoming Marvel EV7 > based server numbers..    C We stayed tuned for WildFire performance numbers and eventually thenB audience got bored of wating and changed channels. Lets wait untilB the boxes are shipping and you have actual published numbers shall3 we. We all know what a mess you got into last time.        regardss Andrew Harrison     ? PS Smileys don't help they just make you look gormless when youo have nothing to smile about.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:41:47 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>s6 Subject: RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EB6@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  F >>> The GS320 is third behind Fujitsu and HP and only 5% faster than a6 24 CPU IBM P680 despite having to use OPS in a box.<<<  D Yeah, yeah .. I know, vendors should not use parallel based softwareA like OPS (even though the cost is included in the benchmark) on ao+ partitioned system because real men do SMP.>   :-),  B So go tell it to the TPC Council and convince them. Or go convince= Oracle to stop positioning 9i RAC as a way to improve overallvF performance. Don't continue to harp on this "SMP is the only way to do TPC" stuff here.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantu Compaq Canada Corp.n Professional Services. Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyE6 [mailto:andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com]=20 Sent: April 23, 2002 11:46 AMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc5 Subject: Re: I was right! Alpha will live in Itanium!          Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Sigh ..n >=20J > Andrew - I don't have time for this "mine is bigger than yours" right=20 > now .. >=20 >=20H >>>>So this claim of leading performance is and was incorrect, there has >>>>D > never been any evidence to support it. So any customer buying a=20I > machine on the basis of its claimed performance or scalability would=20 ? > be entitled to claim that you had sold them a pup, in that=20iF > circumstance giving them a free Marvel box would seem like a fair=20B > exchange for the dissapointment that they have had to endure.<<< >=20% > Wow, talk about creative writing ..      Talk about creative reading.  A You claim leading Performance for the GS boxes, even on the basisl@ of the one benchmark you have singled out TPC-C this claim isn't
 justified.  @ The GS320 is third behind Fujitsu and HP and only 5% faster thanA a 24 CPU IBM P680 despite having to use OPS in a box. The Fujitsun2 the HP and the IBM are all cheaper than the GS320.  C So third or 4th depending on your perspective. Leading means in theo% lead, in front, first not 3rd or 4th.e     >=20 > :-)a >=20G > The GS Series servers is providing very acceptable performance and iseC > currently number 3 and 9 on the top 10 TPC numbers. As far as theA otherrF > benchmarks are concerned, stay tuned with respect to upcoming Marvel EV7  > based server numbers.t    C We stayed tuned for WildFire performance numbers and eventually themB audience got bored of wating and changed channels. Lets wait untilB the boxes are shipping and you have actual published numbers shall3 we. We all know what a mess you got into last time.h       regardse Andrew Harrisont    ? PS Smileys don't help they just make you look gormless when yout have nothing to smile about.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:46:22 +0100 4 From: Mark Horsburgh <M.K.Horsburgh@damtp.cam.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles D Message-ID: <slrnaca0pu.pe2.M.K.Horsburgh@krull.dialup.ntlworld.com>  R On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:41:59 GMT, David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > Sander Vesik wrote:w >> t@ >> In comp.arch David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >> > Sander Vesik wrote: >> >>P >> >> K >> >> Having a clue about how FreeBSD and similar projects happen should beeG >> >> compulsory, so nobody would ever say something as stupid as that.b >> >G >> > Nice attitude - if you want to stay #2 or lower behind Bill Gates.  >> > >> dP >> Why does every project have to have the aspirations of conquering everybodies/ >> machine, having no 1 marketshare or similar?  > 6 > It doesn't, but you can't ignore the market, either. > G > If you don't want anyone to use your software, then go ahead and skipoH > usability. Let BG have his monopoly, and the rest of us will just trot1 > along behind, obedient sheep to the shepherd...  > = > However, if you want your own piece of the pie, guess what?d  D Well, FreeBSD has it's own piece of that pie. It's used all over theG place where cheap, reliable servers are needed. The assumption that BSD E hackers somehow want to overturn the Windows monopoly is false - manyOE (most?) simply want reliable software that _they_ can use. Why shouldaE they care if other people are so stupid that they continually pay thee Windows tax?   Mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:27:44 GMT M From: Wolfgang Rupprecht <wolfgang+gnus20020423T100901@dailyplanet.wsrcc.com>e Subject: Re: Itanium troublese/ Message-ID: <x7wuuytje7.fsf@capsicum.wsrcc.com>,  6 Mark Horsburgh <M.K.Horsburgh@damtp.cam.ac.uk> writes:F > Well, FreeBSD has it's own piece of that pie. It's used all over theI > place where cheap, reliable servers are needed. The assumption that BSD G > hackers somehow want to overturn the Windows monopoly is false - many G > (most?) simply want reliable software that _they_ can use. Why should G > they care if other people are so stupid that they continually pay the  > Windows tax?  A This is the thing that a lot of ms-advocates don't understand.  IuC couldn't care less what MS does or how large a market share it has.oC Why would I care?  I'm not about to use it.  It just doesn't affectf me.c  D I'm quite happy running an OS that needs rebooting only to install aA new kernel and userland.  It also acts as a router, firewall, NATrE gateway and NFS file server for the other machines on the net.  It is  also my desktop machine.  	 -wolfgangl -- 2?        Wolfgang Rupprecht <wolfgang+gnus@dailyplanet.wsrcc.com>u$ 		    http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/O Coming soon: GPS mapping tools for Open Systems. http://www.gnomad-mapping.com/f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:22:04 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t Subject: Keyboard and KVMh9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPIEMAA.tom@kednos.com>a  > I have two W2K boxes and two PWS's on a Linksys KVM switch and9 the keyboard I am using is an LK97W.  Now it almost works @ with the Alphas, but the arrow keys aren't functioning properly.  : one system is 7.1-2 and the other is 7.3.  On 7.3 the down9 right arrow keys are tied to 2, and 6 respectively  as on ; the numeric keypad and the other two don't function at all.o; On 7.1-2 they all function but they are tied to the numberse# as on the numeric keypad (2,6,8,4).u  = If I plug the keyboard in directly to either system the arrow ? keys function as desired for command line editing.  If I telnet ) from W2K using putty, it works correctly.   : How do I correctly set up the keys for this configuration?   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:54:14 +0000 (UTC)e1 From: sssslewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)y Subject: Re: Keyboard and KVMJ. Message-ID: <aa4035$36q$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPIEMAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:22:04 -0700:; >How do I correctly set up the keys for this configuration?K  5 To change your keyboard configuration for DECwindows,   = @SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW.UTILS]DECW$DEFINE_UTILS.COMB  D Then use XEV (hey, isn't she a character on Lexx?) to get all of the! important non-working keycodes.  s  M Use the XMODMAP "keycode" function to set those codes to meaningful keysyms.  E For example, this is what I did to get an AIX box to be EVE-friendly:    ! map pause to do  keycode 134 = Menu ! map - to PF4 keycode 98 = KP_F1 ! nuke the num lock featureo
 clear mod5 keycode 103 = KP_F2u keycode 108 = KP_F3c keycode 113 = KP_F4e ! map backspace to delete  keycode 23 = Deleteh  keysym Delete = Delete BackSpace ! map delete to remove keycode 84 = apLineDelI !keycode 85 = KP_Separator  ! I can't even find this one on my IBM -- KALr ! map home to find keycode 88 = Findd ! map end to selectn keycode 89 = Select  ! Insert keycode 83 = Insertd# ! Help doesn't work for some reason  ! map f11 to helpe keycode 132 = Help ! map the right control key  keycode 72 = Control_R add control = Control_Ri  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org1> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:15:50 -0700e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Keyboard and KVMo9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEAFENAA.tom@kednos.com>v   >   -----Original Message-----< >   From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:sssslewis@lumina.mitre.org]) >   Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:54 AM0 >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr! >   Subject: Re: Keyboard and KVMi >    >   4 >   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article D >   <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPIEMAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 23 Apr  >   2002 06:22:04 -0700:? >   >How do I correctly set up the keys for this configuration?e >   9 >   To change your keyboard configuration for DECwindows,t >   A >   @SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW.UTILS]DECW$DEFINE_UTILS.COMp >   H >   Then use XEV (hey, isn't she a character on Lexx?) to get all of the% >   important non-working keycodes.  c  I I tried this, but the keys (up-arrow left-arrow) don't generate an event,rJ and the other two keys are the same as KP2 and KP6, but on the other alpha# the two 'dead' keys generate code. r   >   = >   Use the XMODMAP "keycode" function to set those codes to c >   meaningful keysyms. I >   For example, this is what I did to get an AIX box to be EVE-friendly:  >    >   ! map pause to dor >   keycode 134 = Menu >   ! map - to PF4 >   keycode 98 = KP_F1 >   ! nuke the num lock featureh >   clear mod5 >   keycode 103 = KP_F2t >   keycode 108 = KP_F3  >   keycode 113 = KP_F4l >   ! map backspace to deletel >   keycode 23 = Delete $ >   keysym Delete = Delete BackSpace >   ! map delete to remove >   keycode 84 = apLineDelC >   !keycode 85 = KP_Separator  ! I can't even find this one on my c >   IBM -- KAL >   ! map home to find >   keycode 88 = Find- >   ! map end to selecte >   keycode 89 = Selectv >   ! Insert >   keycode 83 = Inserti' >   ! Help doesn't work for some reasons >   ! map f11 to helps >   keycode 132 = Help >   ! map the right control keyn >   keycode 72 = Control_R >   add control = Control_Re >   / >   --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgeB >   The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >      ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 06:00:39 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)t Subject: Re: LAT ports problem5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-BWe3BUZpDM7w@localhost>c  D On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:16:52 UTC, bistri@hotmail.com (bistri) wrote:   > Hellof > G > Recently I started administering an OpenVMS 6.2 on Digital Alpha box uE > and now I have big problem with LAT service which someone installed D > before I came to this position. Of course, I have no documentation > on this issue. > @ > Well, let's get to the point. I have running LAT service whichE > seems to work fine and defined port LTA21: which gives me headache.nC > On that port is connected matrix printer (which is definitly OK),uA > and I can print if I'm logged as SYSTEM user, but, I need this i7 > printer for USER1 which is actuall owner of the port.q >  >  > prompt> copy some.txt lta21: > ? > If I try this command as a SYSTEM I get nice printout, but ifaB > I try it as a USER1 this is what I get (nothing on the printer): >  >  >  > prompt> copy some.txt lta21:< > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error openinig LTA21:[SYSMGR].; as output; > -RMS-E-DNR, device not ready, not mounted, or unavailablee
 > prompt>  >  > ? > That is the problem. Settings of this port are shown below asm > result of show command., >  >  > ! > prompt> show device/full lta21:yJ > Terminal LTA21:, device type unknown, is online, record-oriented device, >     carriage control.a > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed               1340 Q >     Owner process          "appli_1"    Owner UIC                       [USER1] Q >     Owner process ID        0000031A    Dev Prot         S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W:RWPL Q >     Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 132e >  > Thanks for any help. > Bistri  3 What does the the LAT manager tell you? i.e. (IIRC)e   MCR LATCP SHO PORT LTA21  C if LAT$LINK appears in one of the fields I think it confiirms what lF David and Barry said about another user/node having the port attached.8 One way around that is to delete and re-create the port.  D One difficulty with simple access to LAT (e.g. COPY commands) ports D from multiple nodes is that the LAT$LINK can be established between F Node A and the port. In that instance Node B can  not access the port F because it can not establish a link. At least that is how it seems to  me.a  : I needed to make my programs that use LAT ports, properly F LAT$LINK-aware to overcome this difficulty. Note : this is experience  on VMS up to versions 6.2. h   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:17:03 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>o Subject: Re: LAT ports problem' Message-ID: <3CC4FC5F.7010808@mmaz.com>W   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:o  * >Why use COPY to "print" to that printer ? >HK If you print special forms, queues can be a hindrance because they spool=20nD the line-up samples rather than directing them immediately to the=20C printer...  If could be that he is simply using a copy as a 'test.'u   Barryi   --=20   B Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO=20  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028t   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 02 07:47:58 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com  Subject: Re: LAT ports problem( Message-ID: <1u+kMvDhkAFe@cpva.saic.com>  ( In article <3CC47FE9.2080104@mmaz.com>, -  "Barry Treahy, Jr."<Treahy@mmaz.com> writes:t > bistri wrote:o >  >>Hellon >>G >>Recently I started administering an OpenVMS 6.2 on Digital Alpha box JE >>and now I have big problem with LAT service which someone installed D >>before I came to this position. Of course, I have no documentation >>on this issue. >>@ >>Well, let's get to the point. I have running LAT service whichE >>seems to work fine and defined port LTA21: which gives me headache.sC >>On that port is connected matrix printer (which is definitly OK),nA >>and I can print if I'm logged as SYSTEM user, but, I need this  7 >>printer for USER1 which is actuall owner of the port.n >> >> >>prompt> copy some.txt lta21: >>? >>If I try this command as a SYSTEM I get nice printout, but ifcB >>I try it as a USER1 this is what I get (nothing on the printer): >> >> >> >>prompt> copy some.txt lta21:< >>%COPY-E-OPENOUT, error openinig LTA21:[SYSMGR].; as output; >>-RMS-E-DNR, device not ready, not mounted, or unavailablei
 >>prompt>  >> >>? >>That is the problem. Settings of this port are shown below ast >>result of show command.n >> >> >>! >>prompt> show device/full lta21:gJ >>Terminal LTA21:, device type unknown, is online, record-oriented device, >>    carriage control.  >>Q >>    Error count                    0    Operations completed               1340 Q >>    Owner process          "appli_1"    Owner UIC                       [USER1] Q >>    Owner process ID        0000031A    Dev Prot         S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W:RWPLrQ >>    Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 132  >>I > Someone else, in this case PID 31A, owns the device and the reason you eH > can copy with priv's is exactly that, your priv's are granting shared G > access to a device that isn't designed to be 'shared' concurrently...s >   I bistri might want to consider /SPOOLing the LTA device and associating itmE with a print queue to provide the type of shared access it appears hea- expects/needs. See HELP SET DEVICE/SPOOLED...g   - Jiml   > Barryt >  >>Thanks for any help. >>Bistri >> >> >  > -- h > B > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO  > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028e >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:56:55 GMT-' From: alexc@world.std.com (Alex Colvin) G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)r( Message-ID: <Gv15qv.3yHzA@world.std.com>  M >can be used to provide multiple views of the content. That doesn't mean that L >you should force everyone to deal with presentation and content at the same! >time the way WYSIAYG systems do.   F It's is essential that this message be viewed in Arial on a peachpuff  background.i   -- (
 	mac the naf    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:29:39 GMT . From: "M. J. Jerabek" <multivac@jitterati.org>: Subject: Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncatedB Message-ID: <D38x8.5920$JP5.2683068518@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>   Hunter,h  K A friend of mine re-built V4.2 with all of the "source" patches included inaJ that directory. We did it to get the anti-relay code, and as a side issue,I update to a newer version of netlib. We still get truncated test lines in-I the body of email, so the fix you mentioned is not in the source patches.nI Any chance you still have the "rediscovered" source patch? If not, thankso for trying.X   Mike Jerabek multivac@jitterati.org  : "Hunter Goatley" <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote in message* news:3cc3c663.33806711@news.process.com...L > On Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:09:38 GMT, "M. J. Jerabek" <multivac@jitterati.org> > wrote: >fE > >I believe the fix in this source patch is concerned with the emailn subjecte > >lines beingJ > >longer that 255 characters. The fix we all want is for having the email text
 > >portion3 > >having lines of text longer than 255 characters.d > > H > No, the bit about subject lines was always there.  The other fix is in thereaK > too (unless I've forgotten the details).  The binary patch was released a G > while after V4.2, but the sources were lost.  When I put together thedH > anti-spam kit, I stuck in the newly-rediscovered source files.  If theD > source doesn't have it, the binary does (under [.MX.MX042.PATCH]). >f > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/U: > goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/> > New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 05:44:30 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: Re: Major Virus Alert!  Better get on VMS now or bye bye!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204230444.4f7fb808@posting.google.com>n  b William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote in message news:<3CC4DAC9.B60EB8F@mailbag.com>...H > Yawn. Is this all you have to do? Write things that make VMS folk look > as stupid as M$ers?a >  > _Please_ get a life. >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:n > >  > 	 > William   E thanks to VMS I have a life!  I don't spend all my hours patching andeB having to go in every night at 3 in the morning because a disk gotH wiped out ... since you are yawning, you must have had a rough night ... another virus shut you down?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 14:46:10 +0200: From: jthorn@galileo.thp.univie.ac.at (Jonathan Thornburg)D Subject: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)9 Message-ID: <3cc557a4$0$14458$3b214f66@news.univie.ac.at>2  B In an article whose nested quoting has overflowed my mental stack,
 someone wroteo | [[...]] WYSIWYG is provenaE | to be a good idea, and one of the reasons is that it DOES allow the:F | user to control both layout and material together.  I loathe editors6 | that rejustify after I have 'signed off' a document.  - In article <aa1dkk$9ls@web.eng.baileynm.com>,>' Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote: K >So what happens if someone corrects something in the document that changesaG >the length of a line? Or if the document has to be distributed via thek, >web, or to someone who's visually impaired?  9 Or if it has to be reformatted for a different paper sizen (eg A4 vs US letter)?r   --  ) -- Jonathan Thornburg <jthorn@aei.mpg.de>eJ    Max-Planck-Institut fuer Gravitationsphysik (Albert-Einstein-Institut),D    Golm, Germany             http://www.aei.mpg.de/~jthorn/home.htmlD    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and theB     powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral."J                                       -- quote by Freire / poster by Oxfam   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 18:53:41 +02006 From: Jan Ingvoldstad <jani+news-comp@nntp.ifi.uio.no>H Subject: Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)0 Message-ID: <oasy9fecq5m.fsf@tyrfing.ifi.uio.no>  > On 23 Apr 2002 14:46:10 +0200, jthorn@galileo.thp.univie.ac.at (Jonathan Thornburg) said:  / > In article <aa1dkk$9ls@web.eng.baileynm.com>,w) > Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:rM >> So what happens if someone corrects something in the document that changeseI >> the length of a line? Or if the document has to be distributed via ther. >> web, or to someone who's visually impaired?  ; > Or if it has to be reformatted for a different paper size  > (eg A4 vs US letter)?e  = But that problem is just very boring compared to the _really_o? interesting problems you get with layout on the world wide web.w  A There are some truly great challenges for the document preparatorn there.  A But separation of "content" (such as it is) from the layout isn't & trivial, either, if you need a layout.  C When dealing with hypertext and context sensitive menus, layout cant8 suddenly decided the content (or, rather, meta-content).  B Similarly to your paper problem, what happens with your references; ("see the figure above") when your document has a differentoE presentation (aspect ratio, resolution, color depth, gamma, ...) thans& it had when you originally created it?  B Fine, I try to separate my content from the layout, but it doesn't> quite work.  I also have to separate the meta-content from theE content, and both from the layout, yet re-integrate them at the point@ of presentation.  E At this point, it would also be interesting to compare with differentnA computer architecture design philosophies, as Nick points out (intD Message-ID: <aa0f6b$hc2$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>).  The world simplyD isn't as flat as the "basic" CISC or RISC philosophies would like it6 to be, and we're continuously trying to adopt to that.   -- rA In the beginning was the Bit, and the Bit was Zero.  Then SomeonepE said, Let there be One, and there was One.  And Someone blessed them,nD and Someone said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenishC the Word and subdue it: and have dominion over every thing that is.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:40:46 +0200u= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>h Subject: Re: Memory Corruption) Message-ID: <3CC5564E.511F7CCD@gtech.com>u   jlsue wrote:E > Here's another thing to try.  When compiling optimized, turn on allyE > checks.  For Fortran, this was /check=all iirc.  At the very least,i > put in /checks=bounds. > F > What you will then get is an accvio if/when your code tries to stuff > too much into a variable.:  @ In very rare cases /CHECK=BOUND is not possible, because it will* effect expected behaviour of the program !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:08:37 -0700O# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>c Subject: Netscape and Mozillaf9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPHEMAA.tom@kednos.com>   A Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXPx  C Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromaE it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon D launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  Mozilla not even worth
 reviewing.  H I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port there browser.> It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:32:22 GMTe* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillan) Message-ID: <3CC5613F.8050405@compaq.com>3   Tom Linden wrote:eC > Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXP  > E > Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromiG > it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon F > launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  Mozilla not even worth > reviewing. > J > I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port there browser.@ > It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS. >  >  >   G Tom, you've complained about Mozilla before, but you haven't shown any wF real information about what is wrong.  As I've said before, I've used G Mozilla (from 0.7 something all the way to 0.9.9) on my V7.2-1 machine  I without any real problems (there was a problem with "save as" with 0.9.8 GD that caused me some grief).  I'm using Mozilla's news reader now to  write this note.   -- l John Reagank' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadero   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:48:49 -0700:# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>N! Subject: RE: Netscape and MozillaV9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEPJEMAA.tom@kednos.com>   F John,  sorry for sounding negative, but if you are accustomed to usingH a more sophisticated browser, Like IE6 or Opera6 it can  be frustrating.  K Its kind of like having to code in C when you are accustomed to PL/I (plug)r$ or using ed when emacs is avaialble.  C I think if you use either of the two browsers I mentioned, you willxL understand my frustration with Netscape and Mozilla.  The first time I triedJ to rum Mozilla I hit ^C, because I thought it was hung.  Next time I tried itL I waited longer and I relaized it really takes that long to load!  Of courseH most people will leave it on the desktop, so they may not see it but the firstlH time.  It also takes noticeably longer to load pages.  (BTW, I note that comp.os.vmst' is not in the bookmarks for newsgroups)          -----Original Message-----1 From: John Reagan [mailto:john.reagan@compaq.com] % Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:32 AM- To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillae     Tom Linden wrote:sC > Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXPs > E > Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far from=G > it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon F > launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  Mozilla not even worth > reviewing. >.J > I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port there browser.@ > It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS. >s >o >m  F Tom, you've complained about Mozilla before, but you haven't shown anyE real information about what is wrong.  As I've said before, I've used F Mozilla (from 0.7 something all the way to 0.9.9) on my V7.2-1 machineH without any real problems (there was a problem with "save as" with 0.9.8C that caused me some grief).  I'm using Mozilla's news reader now to  write this note.   -- John Reagane' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadere   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:40:55 +0000 (UTC) 2 From: ssssslewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillaf. Message-ID: <aa3va7$35f$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPHEMAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:08:37 -0700:B >Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXP >tD >Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromF >it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon/ >launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  l  E Haha, you are correct!  http://home.netscape.com contains script thatsL Netscape 3 can't process.  Javascript has changed significantly since then. L You should disable it in Netscape 3 (options->network preferences, click the? Languages tab, uncheck Javascript, then options->save options).   L It works fine as an HTML browser.  I sometimes use it when my PC is tied up,L or when I want to download something onto an alpha.  If I want to view thoseH newfangled java/javascript pages I use Netscape 4.x on a Solaris server, displayed to my Alphastation.   J For decent multimedia you need a PC or Mac anyway.  No single OS is suited for everything.e  I >I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port there browser.f? >It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS.l  1 And I would like a PL/I hobbyist license.  *grin*   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orge> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:58:24 +0200I From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillac& Message-ID: <3CC584A0.9040203@home.nl>   Tom Linden wrote:i  G >John,  sorry for sounding negative, but if you are accustomed to usingrI >a more sophisticated browser, Like IE6 or Opera6 it can  be frustrating.c >yL >Its kind of like having to code in C when you are accustomed to PL/I (plug)% >or using ed when emacs is avaialble.  >aD >I think if you use either of the two browsers I mentioned, you willM >understand my frustration with Netscape and Mozilla.  The first time I triedzK >to rum Mozilla I hit ^C, because I thought it was hung.  Next time I triedi >it?C >I waited longer and I relaized it really takes that long to load! h >s) Did you use @syscommon:[mozilla]install ?iH Did you review the settings of your system account, and the settings of  DecWindows ?A Increasing the page quota limits of DecWindows really helps a lott  G I'm running Mozilla 1.0 at the moment on my PWS500, and I'm happy with 4I it. It is quite good. But I'm also using Netscape 6 on my PC. I only use  K IE5 in case I have one of those pages that will only run with M$ products. s   > Of coursegI >most people will leave it on the desktop, so they may not see it but the> >firstI >time.  It also takes noticeably longer to load pages.  (BTW, I note that  >comp.os.vms( >is not in the bookmarks for newsgroups) >g >l >p >b >-----Original Message-----o2 >From: John Reagan [mailto:john.reagan@compaq.com]& >Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:32 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla >o >e >Tom Linden wrote: >LC >>Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXPg >>E >>Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromfG >>it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon F >>launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  Mozilla not even worth >>reviewing. >>J >>I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port there browser.@ >>It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS. >> >> >> > G >Tom, you've complained about Mozilla before, but you haven't shown any F >real information about what is wrong.  As I've said before, I've usedG >Mozilla (from 0.7 something all the way to 0.9.9) on my V7.2-1 machinetI >without any real problems (there was a problem with "save as" with 0.9.8mD >that caused me some grief).  I'm using Mozilla's news reader now to >write this note.r >t >--v >John Reagan( >Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:06:35 -0700c# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: RE: Netscape and Mozilla 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEACENAA.tom@kednos.com>,  < Yes, I followed the instructions carefully, checking all the= system paramters as recommended.  try Opera on your PC if youi> want to see how good it can be.  (No connection to Opera, just a satisfied customer)    -----Original Message-----% From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]'% Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:58 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillae         Tom Linden wrote:a  G >John,  sorry for sounding negative, but if you are accustomed to usingeI >a more sophisticated browser, Like IE6 or Opera6 it can  be frustrating.r >yL >Its kind of like having to code in C when you are accustomed to PL/I (plug)% >or using ed when emacs is avaialble.- >lD >I think if you use either of the two browsers I mentioned, you willG >understand my frustration with Netscape and Mozilla.  The first time IM triedmK >to rum Mozilla I hit ^C, because I thought it was hung.  Next time I triedu >itwB >I waited longer and I relaized it really takes that long to load! > ) Did you use @syscommon:[mozilla]install ?hG Did you review the settings of your system account, and the settings oft DecWindows ?A Increasing the page quota limits of DecWindows really helps a lots  F I'm running Mozilla 1.0 at the moment on my PWS500, and I'm happy withH it. It is quite good. But I'm also using Netscape 6 on my PC. I only useJ IE5 in case I have one of those pages that will only run with M$ products.   > Of course:I >most people will leave it on the desktop, so they may not see it but the. >firstI >time.  It also takes noticeably longer to load pages.  (BTW, I note that2 >comp.os.vms( >is not in the bookmarks for newsgroups) >o >  >d >i >-----Original Message----- 2 >From: John Reagan [mailto:john.reagan@compaq.com]& >Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:32 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla >r >p >Tom Linden wrote: >uC >>Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXPi >>E >>Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromrG >>it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon.F >>launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  Mozilla not even worth >>reviewing. >>J >>I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port there browser.@ >>It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS. >> >> >> >oG >Tom, you've complained about Mozilla before, but you haven't shown any F >real information about what is wrong.  As I've said before, I've usedG >Mozilla (from 0.7 something all the way to 0.9.9) on my V7.2-1 machinesI >without any real problems (there was a problem with "save as" with 0.9.8eD >that caused me some grief).  I'm using Mozilla's news reader now to >write this note.u >  >--. >John Reagan( >Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader >[   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:45:29 GMTt* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillac) Message-ID: <3CC58E81.8090007@compaq.com>h   Tom Linden wrote:mH > John,  sorry for sounding negative, but if you are accustomed to usingJ > a more sophisticated browser, Like IE6 or Opera6 it can  be frustrating. >   * I use IE6 on my Windows XP machine at home+ I use IE5.1 on my Macintosh machine at homee1 I use Mozilla 0.9.9 on my OpenVMS machine at work>  B Except for the excellent download manager included in IE5.1 on my D Macintosh, all of the browsers seem equivalent in functionality and  performance.       -- e John Reaganf' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:18:49 -0700h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: RE: Netscape and Mozillag9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEAGENAA.tom@kednos.com>a   >   -----Original Message-----= >   From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:ssssslewis@lumina.mitre.org]2) >   Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:41 AMp >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr% >   Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla: >a >n3 >   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article5C >   <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPHEMAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 23 Aprh >   2002 06:08:37 -0700:F >   >Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXP >   >eH >   >Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromJ >   >it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon1 >   >launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!e >bI >   Haha, you are correct!  http://home.netscape.com contains script thatiC >   Netscape 3 can't process.  Javascript has changed significantlyt >   since then.f9 >   You should disable it in Netscape 3 (options->networko >   preferences, click theC >   Languages tab, uncheck Javascript, then options->save options).  >vA >   It works fine as an HTML browser.  I sometimes use it when my  >   PC is tied up,B >   or when I want to download something onto an alpha.  If I want >   to view thosetL >   newfangled java/javascript pages I use Netscape 4.x on a Solaris server,! >   displayed to my Alphastation.o >lA >   For decent multimedia you need a PC or Mac anyway.  No single  >   OS is suited >   for everything.  >i> >   >I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port >   there browser.C >   >It is avaialable on a lot of different platforms, but not VMS.c >R5 >   And I would like a PL/I hobbyist license.  *grin*m  B Do you have a VMS hobbyist license?  You can download the kit from ftp://freja.kednos.com >@/ >   --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgiB >   The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >a   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 06:11:09 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>O$ Subject: Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)6 Message-ID: <20020423061109.32471.qmail@gacracker.org>  < On 22 Apr 2002, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:B >In article <20020422194819.13265.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher5 ><Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:t >t >> oA >> As to Rob's comment, going to an account other than SYSTEM for N >> administration of the system is security through obscurity. I don't believeN >> in that. It also encourages attacks against random user accounts which I do >> not approve of. >> t > + >	Eh?  Help me with the logic in the above.d >eC >	Everyone that is familiar with VMS knows it has an account callede> >	SYSTEM.  If that account is inaccessable other than batch or >	detach, that is a good thing.o  G Sure, for a business it might well be. What I recommend with clients istJ that they double password the SYSTEM account and create other accounts for2 those who require access with elevated privileges.  A >	Besides, if they are hacking at your SYSTEM account, what is toeI >	prevent someone from hacking at multiple random accounts, etc. etc..???o  A I ask them not to. :-) I make it quite clear that nobody else hasrF privileges and have to rely on this making it appear not worthwhile toD actually attempt to hack other user accounts. If someone is actuallyA interested in hacking VMS then password guessing isn't much of and achievement.  B >	Also, security through obscurity is a very good thing.  As a for< >	instance, my password is pretty obscure.  If it was public; >	knowledge (not very obscure) , that would be a bad thing.a  G Cute example. Of course passwords should be obscure, but in the overall I process security through obscurity is a bad idea. It might give you a bit-H of an edge in some circumstances, but you're supposed to assume that any$ adversary knows your little secrets.  + >	Having an account that is privved called:3 >5 >			MALNONWA >h? >	and an associated nonesensical password and accessed via SSH,i? >	leaves no holes or *POTENTIAL* holes (guessing of both is noth >	feasable, I would contend).t  J It certainly may be for your threat model, but it doesn't work for mine. IG have to assume that hackers who may try to brute-force the password arecG already on the system. They can see logins which originate on the locali9 network and thus deduce which accounts may be privileged.-   <snip>  J I don't see how your example was really relevant to this, I understand the reasons for doing it though.  K Please remember, this is a system where I'm giving out free accounts to all3H and sundry. I make it quite clear on my web site that the system is fairI game for hacking attacks. However, I'm hoping to find people who, if theylH have such an interest, are looking for an exploit that can be applied toK any system, not just brute-force guessing the password and getting a single  system.q     Doc. -- o6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net2   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 06:17:51 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>0$ Subject: Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)6 Message-ID: <20020423061751.32761.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On 22 Apr 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:J >In article <3CC45FBB.9E2CC7A3@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> >writes: >> "Doc.Cypher" wrote: >>> J >>> (BTW, the system password is over 15 characters long so it ain't going1 >>> to be got with some silly dictionary attack) p >> h, >> Anyone got a PAK key generator handy? ;-) >> eI >>> This should of course be a wake-up call for anyone who doesn't have alL >>> strong password policy in place. I'd like to see the next release of VMSJ >>> specifying a minimum password length of 8 characters, and I would urge2 >>> anyone running a system to put that in place.  >>  E >> The problem with overbearing password policies is that users can'trG >> remember the password they were forced to choose, so they write them   >> down, defeating the purpose.  >O1 >That depends on what your purpose happens to be.  >a? >I gather that Doc Cypher's purpose is not to defend individualn? >accounts from people who might have access to the workspace ofMA >that individual.  In that context, having passwords so long that / >people write them down seems quite acceptable.o  D Yup, people should remember the system is not a business one. It's aG Hobbyist system where I give out free accounts. All users except myselfgH access across the internet. The only users that I can see could be underJ threat from having their password written down are university students whoH access from a terminal room. In that sort of environment you're probablyB more at risk from things like trojans installed by other students.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:14:10 +0000 (UTC)n From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk$ Subject: Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)+ Message-ID: <aa3j6i$dvj$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>p  v In article <20020423061751.32761.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:? >On 22 Apr 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:aK >>In article <3CC45FBB.9E2CC7A3@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 	 >>writes:f >>> "Doc.Cypher" wrote:b >>>> tE >Yup, people should remember the system is not a business one. It's aeH >Hobbyist system where I give out free accounts. All users except myselfI >access across the internet. The only users that I can see could be undervK >threat from having their password written down are university students whouI >access from a terminal room. In that sort of environment you're probablyaC >more at risk from things like trojans installed by other students.f >   K Firstly students aren't generally very hot on keeping their accounts securelJ anyway. They'll share their passwords with their friends, forget to logoff etcI  J We tell our members of staff never to use machines in the student terminalJ rooms. To much chance of keyboard loggers, network sniffers or just havingM their password details recorded in known local files on the NT, Win98 systemsr which can be accessed later.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:11:50 +0100J- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>24 Subject: Re: Optical Jukebox operation under OpenVMS1 Message-ID: <3CC54F86.EE3005E2@BlueBubble.UK.Com>n   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:m   > Andrew Rycroft wrote:, > [...snip...] >sF > Inspect the drive belts, and make sure that they are not starting toD > disintigrate from age.  Pieces of the drive belts can get into the- > optical drive hardware causing read errors.p  I Yep, that's my experience as well.  The "teeth" on the drive belts eithere  I wear away or become separated from the belt.  The belt can still work forc  F quite a while after that starts to happen, so by the time you start to getsI errors showing up, the belt is usually totally screwed.  You (Andrew) ares  E probably far too far away for this to make sense but I *might* have ai coupleG of RW536 jukeboxes (4-drive, 144-slots, 288-sides) available at not too 
 much a price.l  . > The drives and media may need to be cleaned. > 9 > I recommend keeping secondary backups of optical media.C  A At today's prices, the secondary backups might just as well be ont magnetic@ disks ;-)  That's what replaced the above-mentioned RW536 boxes.  	 Roy Omondn Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:51:38 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u6 Subject: Re: password history list: back to the future; Message-ID: <01KGWPR4FWDE8ZF8CR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>8  H > Maybe the password is in the system dictionary, and the first time youD > created the account you set the "let the user use passwords in the@ > history list" flag ?  IIRC, this dictionary is in plain text.   F I'm sure that in this respect and others the same flags were set with = regard to the account.  (I also doubt the password is in the o dictionary.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:28:44 +0100z( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: PC Worker) Message-ID: <3CC5456C.D41B8E7C@127.0.0.1>    Dean Woodward wrote: >  > <cough><snort>@ > Do you know how hard it is to get hot cocoa out of a keyboard?  ; Did I ever tell you the story of the faulty LK411 keyboard?   # RING... "My keyboard doesn't work."r  F Went down, diagnosed, swapped, "Spilled coffee in it?" "Nope" says the caller.l  G Dismantled in office, traces of brown liquid not totally unlike coffee.d  G Returned to caller with the evidence. "Thought you said you'd NOT spilto coffee in this keyboard?"    "I didn't. It's tea.". --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:44 -0400l9 From: "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA>e Subject: Reading a file in javal2 Message-ID: <1019567790.506179@news.drenet.dnd.ca>  L I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seemsL that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingL and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i make2 sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd?   Thanks,t  
 Pierre-Luc   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:27:55 +0000 (UTC) 2 From: ssssslewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)# Subject: Re: Reading a file in java . Message-ID: <aa3r1b$2tb$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> writes in article <1019567790.506179@news.drenet.dnd.ca> dated Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:44 -0400:oM >I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seems M >that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingyM >and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i make"3 >sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd?   ? I guess (and hope) you're talking about text files, not binary.e  K Most of the older VMS tools (such as editors) write text files in "variable-J length" format, which means the first 2 bytes of the record are the lengthG of the line, the rest are the ASCII contents of the line.  The line canO: contain any characters you like but its length is limited.  E Unix-type applications (such as Java) write text files in "stream_LF" J format, where the end of a line is the first LF character (ASCII 10).  TheE line can be any length, but it cannot contain a LF except at the end.m  A The "DIR/FULL" command will tell you which type of file you have.8  M Each type of application should, in theory, read both formats transparently.  J To prove that your Java output file is correct, use a Java program to read it.t  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgE> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 10:22:53 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s# Subject: Re: Reading a file in javan3 Message-ID: <f10+s5Mafxa$@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  n In article <1019567790.506179@news.drenet.dnd.ca>, "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> writes:N > I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seemsN > that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingN > and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i make4 > sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd?  C To those of us who know nothing about Java, this sound suspiciouslyiA like you are using some non-record access and some record access.E@ The two do not mix.  DIRECTORY/FULL will show whether you have a8 record-oriented file or not.  Try the DUMP command also.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:36:06 GMTo" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)# Subject: Re: Reading a file in java / Message-ID: <3cc57df3.12111929@News.CIS.DFN.DE>   6 On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:44 -0400, "Pierre-Luc Morin"' <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> wrote:p  M >I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seemslM >that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingMM >and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i maket3 >sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd?l >e >Thanks, >n >Pierre-Luce >U  + This will read and write bytes, Pierre-Luc.r   import java.io.*;n   public class ByteFile {>         ,     public static void main(String[] args) {
         try {.-             File file = new File("in.bytes");f             *             int size = (int)file.length();-             byte[] contents = new byte[size];n  <             FileInputStream fis = new FileInputStream(file);             fis.read(contents);m             F             FileOutputStream fos2 = new FileOutputStream("out.bytes");!             fos2.write(contents);.                      } catch (Exception e) {o"             System.out.println(e);	         }      }.          }n     --     Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartel-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:42:03 GMTa" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)# Subject: Re: Reading a file in javaD/ Message-ID: <3cc67fe5.12610393@News.CIS.DFN.DE>o  M On 23 Apr 2002 10:22:53 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:   o >In article <1019567790.506179@news.drenet.dnd.ca>, "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> writes:aO >> I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seemspO >> that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingEO >> and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i make 5 >> sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd?A >MD >To those of us who know nothing about Java, this sound suspiciouslyB >like you are using some non-record access and some record access.A >The two do not mix.  DIRECTORY/FULL will show whether you have aC9 >record-oriented file or not.  Try the DUMP command also.   B Larry, why do you suppose that dump/hex writes from right to left?     -- a   Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartel.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:31:25 GMTo" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)# Subject: Re: Reading a file in javae/ Message-ID: <3cc89a4e.19372301@News.CIS.DFN.DE>0  6 On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:44 -0400, "Pierre-Luc Morin"' <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> wrote:b  M >I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seemsaM >that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingtM >and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i makec3 >sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd?s >J >Thanks, >  >Pierre-Lucf >n  3  Here's a complete test. It works on 7.3 just fine.t   --   Regards,  
 Ken Kalish     import java.io.*;    public class ByteFile2 {         ,     public static void main(String[] args) {
         try {T+             File f1 = new File("in.bytes"); *             // write three ascending bytes=             FileOutputStream fos1 = new FileOutputStream(f1);              fos1.write(1);             fos1.write(2);             fos1.write(3);             fos1.close();l             (             int size = (int)f1.length();.             byte[] contents1 = new byte[size];  '             // read the file into arraye;             FileInputStream fis1 = new FileInputStream(f1);a!             fis1.read(contents1);t                          // write a new filea,             File f2 = new File("out.bytes");=             FileOutputStream fos2 = new FileOutputStream(f2);/"             fos2.write(contents1);             fos2.close();r             (             // read it back in to verify;             FileInputStream fis2 = new FileInputStream(f2);a$             size = (int)f2.length();%             System.out.println(size);-.             byte[] contents2 = new byte[size];!             fis2.read(contents2);.8             for (int i = 0; i < contents2.length; i++) {;                 System.out.print("<" + contents2[i] + ">");.
             }r                      } catch (Exception e) {d"             System.out.println(e);	         }      }s          }n -- a   Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartelf   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:50:35 GMTt/ From: "Carmine Castiglia" <ccast@optonline.net>u, Subject: SMTP mail error %UCX-E-SMTP_BADADDRC Message-ID: <L9hx8.13890$Oo4.4199647262@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>f   System is OpenVMS V7.1-1H2  L Without getting into a lot of detail, I had a program (compiled DIBOL) crashL recently when a user attempted to send an SMTP mail without specifying a topG level domain in the address.  After lots of testing I have narrowed thea? issue down to something that can be tested at the command line.t   Specifically, this works:e  (   $ mail foo.bar smtp%"test@abcdefg.com"   $,  > And so does this (well, at least it doesn't cause a crash...):  #   $ mail foo.bar smtp%"test@abcdef"t   $:   But, this doesn't:  $   $ mail foo.bar smtp%"test@abcdefg"H   %UCX-E-SMTP_BADADDR, Recipient address is illegal. Unparsed string: ::*   %UCX-E-SMTP_ABORT, SMTP session aborted.   $l  K It seems that the missing top level domain can be handled without causing amI SMTP_BADADDR error only if the domain name (abcdef... in the examples) is L six characters or fewer.  If the (admittedly incomplete) domain name exceeds@ six characters in length, the error occurs.  Can anyone offer an! explanation?  A clean workaround?b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:55:38 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a% Subject: Suggestion: SET DEVICE/RESETt, Message-ID: <3CC5A019.16CB04D5@videotron.ca>  M Got caught with a TK70 tape that broke  where there is a hole in the magneticcM tape about 2 feet from the leader. Of course, the TK70 drive became confused.T  J I powered it off, removed the cassette and remaining tape inside the unit,N reset the tape "catcher" and powered the unit back on. It can succesfully loadI and unlaod tapes. However, VMS still complains about "medium is offline".t  M I let it rest overnight, hoping it would timeout, but alas no. So I am havingd% to reboot my master node to fix this.   M Shouldn't there be some sort of SET DEV/RESET that would send a signal to thedM driver/hardware to reset itself ? (perhaps followed by a SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE' ALL to reload the device).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:50:34 -0400 0 From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> Subject: tape problems #2e; Message-ID: <000901c1eaef$5f2925a0$9396a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>n  3 I have a 4mm dat tape drive on VMS 7.1 ALPHA systemnG when I try to restore from the tape backup gets an error just before itrL starts the desired saveset  The first save set works just fine.   I can DUMPJ the tape and can see the 2nd saveset is there and the contents of it.   IsF there ANY program or procedure that will let me get past the error and- either restore or copy down the 2nd saveset??w  = I have tried the tape on other drives and get the same error.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:55:09 +0100:T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>X Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!)& Message-ID: <3CC567BD.5000806@sun.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:t  ; > On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:e > N >>'Fucked-over' just happens to be the right phrase to describe the situation,J >>and one which everyone cannot fail to understand - unlike 'strategicallyL >>re-emphasize', 'cornerstone of our strategy going forward', 'the processor  >>family for the next 25 years'. >> > M > Okay, in your opinion it is the right phrase, but it limits your readershiprI > because many will simply switch off when they see the profanity. Not to L > mention that there used to be someone subscribed via the mailing list with" > a naughty words filter in place. > K > My feelings about VMS marketing and some of the 'strategic' decisions areeD > not that dissimilar from your own, but I believe that profanity isJ > counter-productive. Had I been in a bad mood when I read the message youM > would have ended up in my killfile for 30 days. I am sure you don't want toiG > have that effect on your readers. I try to avoid swearing myself, butsI > driving in Brussels makes the air in my car turn an unpleasant shade off
 > blue :). > H > Apart from the infamous Mr Harrison, everybody here seems to be of theI > opinion that VMS is one of the finest operating systems ever developed,sM > that isn't an easily arrived-at conclusion from much of the posting herein.uJ > I wish it was, because I refer people here who've only been using the OSL > for a few days. I certainly don't want to sweep the issues many of us haveK > with Digital/Compaq management under the carpet, their behaviour has beenjF > inexcusable, and in some respects continues to be so. That should beK > pointed out at every opportunity, but it should be remembered that it hasU > little impact doing so here. >     F Another person who needs to do a bit more trawling through deja/google  A Perhaps you should have taken the advice you so kindly offered mewC because if you had bothered to trawl through the newsgroup archivesp? you would find that I have nothing against OpenVMS technically.b  @ Sure it has its deficiencies, filesystem performance (two failed> attempts to fix this), security through obscurity, origionallyB no integrated IP stack etc. But show me an OS that is perfect none are.  ? What I object to is actually the attitude which is sumarised byi< "OpenVMS is the finest OS ever developed". An OS is a lot of: things and OpenVMS does some of them very well, clustering= for example, some of them well and some of them very badly IPy5 support origionally for example, filesystem perf etc.g  ? OpenVMS has not in recent years been a performance platform, ifh? it had been then Compaq would have used it to deliver benchmarkoA numbers on Alpha, instead they do all their benchmarking on Tru64r@ which delivers modest mid range performance for commercial apps.  @ IBM who in OS400 have a product that in many respects occupies aA similar position in their product range as OpenVMS have been veryp= happy to benchmark OS400 and AIX on their POWER based systemsK  > And whatever you think about OpenVMS it is inextricably linked< with Compaq, this is the millstone arround OpenVMS's neck as* well as being a millstone arround Compaqs.  = This is because Compaq don't know what to do with OpenVMS and = have squandered most of the technology leads OpenVMS had overh< other OS's. For example OpenVMS clustering was well ahead of9 UNIX clustering it now isn't. On the flip side for Compaq : OpenVMS consumes resources that Compaq culturally were not7 used to have to expend, R&D and intellectual. Having anu7 agenda set for you by MS and Intel down to the level ofo6 being told exactly what sized systems to build and how< to build them did not foster the culture required to develop9 things. Sadly if various articles published about Carly'sf7 reign at HP are correct she has gone a long way towardse> dismantling HP's engineering led culture which might have been1 OpenVMS's saviour when/if the merger takes place.   < And an OS is only as good as the platform it runs on and the; Apps that run on it. In both respects OpenVMS has been very 
 badly served.h  < However you do the analysis the current WildFire boxes don't7 cut it performance wise for the applications that would2= naturally be the target market for OpenVMS. While reliabilityu< and security are obviously of interest to HPC customers they< are much more critical to people with large mission critical DBMS's.m  = And OpenVMS simply does not have the apps, Kerry talks a goodi< talk but the fact is that the type of application stack that< people are now building arround Portals/CRM/eCRM/B2B/B2C EAI8 etc is woefully under represented in the OpenVMS product
 portfolio.  < Compaq cannot even be bothered to support their own products8 on OpenVMS, I refer to Compaq's non support of their own6 Crypto card with OpenVMS, a key component in a B2C/B2B infrastructure.l  7 Sun takes a holistic view of Solaris, it is the OS, theg5 hardware and the apps that run on it without this ther' OS is as usefull as a chocolate teapot.   5 OpenVMS is a lesson to us what not to do, Compaq have 5 managed to construct the perfect chocolate teapot, no 3 one benefits from this particularly posters to this,/ group who seem to have more to loose or in somee cases have lost more.    Regardsi Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:13:17 +0100vT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64& Message-ID: <3CC541CD.4070600@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  H >>>>Noticing that this is an openvms advocacy group, I will refrain from >>>>H > mentioning the performance of the java vm's on vms as opposed to other > operating systems.<<<f > I > Oh you mean like the + or - 5% of Tru64 Java numbers that was shown viatC > internal testing with latest OpenVMS Java release? And Tru64 Javat' > numbers are definitely not to shabby.c >     A Yes they are, the main benchmark for Java apps servers is SPECJBB?2 where are the leading Tru64 and OpenVMS numbers ??  < When are you going to publish the Java numbers for OpenVMS ?  C And before you start the ridiculous best with 2 CPU's that normallylF happens at this point remember that the benchmark measures throughput.     > G >>>>How about security?  YOu mentioned security or highlighted some webw >>>>' > article on it--does VMS have ssh? <<<4 > G > Yep. SSH1 and SSH2 via freeware and commercial sources. So whats your. > point? >     B Humm, you don't have a FIPS 140-2 certified HSM or even apparentlyH support for basic crypto accelerators. Even MVS has crypto accelerators.  D This rules you out of being a high performance HTTPS SSL platform orE participating in a B2B environment that requires FIPS 140-2 (Identrus E for example) these are just 2 components in a B2B infrastructure thate you don't do on OpenVMS.  D Admit it you have next to no idea what a B2B architecture looks like do you.I    A > Rest of stuff is obviously not worth wasting time on as you are H > obviously one that is not going to be even the slightest bit pursuaded > no matter what is said.  >  > :-)r >     ? Well its unlikely that you will persuade him with what you haveb@ said so far because you havn't actually said anything, he on the otherhand has been specific.     Regardsp Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:18:11 -0400r+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> N Subject: RE: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EB3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew -  C >>> When are you going to publish the Java numbers for OpenVMS ?<<<o  + Right after Sun publishes some TPC numbers.a   :-)n  G As far as the rest of the stuff goes wrt to B2B environments, the "mine<? is bigger than yours" type arguments can go on for months ..=20-   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Compaq Canada Corp.n Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyr6 [mailto:andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com]=20 Sent: April 23, 2002 7:13 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64a         Main, Kerry wrote:  H >>>>Noticing that this is an openvms advocacy group, I will refrain from >>>>H > mentioning the performance of the java vm's on vms as opposed to other   > operating systems.<<<0 >=20H > Oh you mean like the + or - 5% of Tru64 Java numbers that was shown=20J > via internal testing with latest OpenVMS Java release? And Tru64 Java=20' > numbers are definitely not to shabby." >=20    G Yes they are, the main benchmark for Java apps servers is SPECJBB where , are the leading Tru64 and OpenVMS numbers ??  < When are you going to publish the Java numbers for OpenVMS ?  C And before you start the ridiculous best with 2 CPU's that normallymF happens at this point remember that the benchmark measures throughput.     >=20G >>>>How about security?  YOu mentioned security or highlighted some webr >>>>' > article on it--does VMS have ssh? <<<  >=20J > Yep. SSH1 and SSH2 via freeware and commercial sources. So whats your=20 > point? >=20    B Humm, you don't have a FIPS 140-2 certified HSM or even apparentlyH support for basic crypto accelerators. Even MVS has crypto accelerators.  D This rules you out of being a high performance HTTPS SSL platform orE participating in a B2B environment that requires FIPS 140-2 (IdentrusuE for example) these are just 2 components in a B2B infrastructure that  you don't do on OpenVMS.  G Admit it you have next to no idea what a B2B architecture looks like do  you.    D > Rest of stuff is obviously not worth wasting time on as you are=20H > obviously one that is not going to be even the slightest bit pursuaded   > no matter what is said.j >=20 > :-)i >=20    G Well its unlikely that you will persuade him with what you have said so0F far because you havn't actually said anything, he on the otherhand has been specific.     Regardsn Andrew Harrison>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:06:14 +0100dT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64& Message-ID: <3CC56A56.3010600@sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  
 > Andrew - >  > C >>>>When are you going to publish the Java numbers for OpenVMS ?<<<n >>>> > - > Right after Sun publishes some TPC numbers.     ; You were the one making claims for OpenVMS Java performance 9 I have made no claims about Sun's TPC-C performance. Onlyc6 you in this situation would or could have responded to8 a request for you to show us the actual numbers you have4 to justify the ~5% perf differences in Java perf for9 OpenVMS vs Tru64 that you are claiming with a request fora Sun to provide TPC-C numbers.M  ( Dumb does not even begin to describe it.  0 Keep smiling though gallows humour and all that.     >  > :-)w > I > As far as the rest of the stuff goes wrt to B2B environments, the "miner? > is bigger than yours" type arguments can go on for months .. o >     = Kerry, Kerry not having HSM support is nothing to do with thee9 size of anything it would be nice if it was. Its about if 8 you have a basic required set of funcionality yes or no.  : For OpenVMS the answer is no so you don't even register on the sizeometer.    Regards  Andrew Harrisonn    
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantt > Compaq Canada Corp.e > Professional Services. > Voice: 613-592-4660B > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com]  > Sent: April 23, 2002 7:13 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComwJ > Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to > IA-64o >  >  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > I >>>>>Noticing that this is an openvms advocacy group, I will refrain from  >>>>>r >>>>> H >>mentioning the performance of the java vm's on vms as opposed to other >> >  >>operating systems.<<<n >>F >>Oh you mean like the + or - 5% of Tru64 Java numbers that was shown H >>via internal testing with latest OpenVMS Java release? And Tru64 Java ' >>numbers are definitely not to shabby.n >> >> >  > I > Yes they are, the main benchmark for Java apps servers is SPECJBB wherey. > are the leading Tru64 and OpenVMS numbers ?? > > > When are you going to publish the Java numbers for OpenVMS ? > E > And before you start the ridiculous best with 2 CPU's that normally H > happens at this point remember that the benchmark measures throughput. >  >  > H >>>>>How about security?  YOu mentioned security or highlighted some web >>>>>r >>>>> ' >>article on it--does VMS have ssh? <<<  >>H >>Yep. SSH1 and SSH2 via freeware and commercial sources. So whats your  >>point? >> >> >  > D > Humm, you don't have a FIPS 140-2 certified HSM or even apparentlyJ > support for basic crypto accelerators. Even MVS has crypto accelerators. > F > This rules you out of being a high performance HTTPS SSL platform orG > participating in a B2B environment that requires FIPS 140-2 (Identrus G > for example) these are just 2 components in a B2B infrastructure thatc > you don't do on OpenVMS. > I > Admit it you have next to no idea what a B2B architecture looks like dor > you. >  >  > B >>Rest of stuff is obviously not worth wasting time on as you are H >>obviously one that is not going to be even the slightest bit pursuaded >> >  >>no matter what is said.  >> >>:-)  >> >> >  > I > Well its unlikely that you will persuade him with what you have said so H > far because you havn't actually said anything, he on the otherhand has > been specific. >  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisont >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:20:06 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <aa3ucs$34dm$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   the augur wrote in message ... >c   nothing of interesto  A >And stop using the lame "person posts without a real name" crap, F >nobody cares to get personal with the likes of you, just present your) >facts and get on with your life--sheesh!. >a  F Let's try and guess which poster has decided that he needs to hide his	 identity.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:48:57 +0100g' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>.5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?e2 Message-ID: <230420021048576000%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  C In article <01KGVJKZZ95E8ZF8CR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, PhillipI2 Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  J > > After all, we would not want to see "My DCL" or "Visual RMS" would we? > > J > > Can you imagine a paper clip leaping out at you halfway through typing > > a teco macro?' > J > Thanks for a good laugh!  I'm catching up here (I was at the 25th DECUS K > Mnchen (Yes, DECus, no compaqtion, PHUX or whatever here!) Symposium in oK > Bonn last week---interesting stuff!) so didn't bother reading the sender 0K > name, but when I got to the above two paragraphs, I was sure it was good :- > old Elliott run-my-lawnmower-on-TECO Roper!f  8 Bloody hell Phillip! How did you hack into my lawnmower?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:05:41 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ? H Message-ID: <F_cx8.45000$VLV.44854@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  4 "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message, news:180420021035449710%elliott@yrl.co.uk... > G > I now like the idea of letting the 'Open' become more and more silent I > with time. We could start with fine print disclaimers that explain that E > OpenVMS and VMS are the same thing and slowly fade the 'open' away.o >mG > It honestly does not matter any more. VMS is selling mostly to people:I > who can have a bit of a laugh at the sillier bits of marketing, and who0@ > would appreciate no further money being wasted on changing the > packaging. >.H > After all, we would not want to see "My DCL" or "Visual RMS" would we? >rH > Can you imagine a paper clip leaping out at you halfway through typing > a teco macro?l    : 'OpenVMS' really means, 'Open your mouth, now say "VMS" '.4 Sort of like the instructions the dentist gives you.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:57:15 +0100 (MET)i9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 5 Subject: Re: Time to finally rename VMS back to VMS ?e; Message-ID: <01KGWPXON7KI8ZF8CR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  J > > Thanks for a good laugh!  I'm catching up here (I was at the 25th DEC= US=20iJ > > M=FCnchen (Yes, DECus, no compaqtion, PHUX or whatever here!) Symposi= um in=20J > > Bonn last week---interesting stuff!) so didn't bother reading the sen= der=20J > > name, but when I got to the above two paragraphs, I was sure it was g= ood=20/ > > old Elliott run-my-lawnmower-on-TECO Roper!f >=20: > Bloody hell Phillip! How did you hack into my lawnmower?  A The undocumentd CMCBR (change mode to carburetor) privilege.  :-)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:33:36 GMTn& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha CIv) Message-ID: <3CC55590.2C74460C@attbi.com>e   Eric Smith wrote:a > * > Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> writes:G > > I think you are hosed.  IIRC, the CIPCA (both -AA and -BA versions)sH > > can only share a CI with other nodes that support 4K packets; that'sJ > > why HSC50s and older CI host adapters are disallowed.  {ISTR that someG > > HSC70s and/or some CIXCDs/CIBCAs had to be brought up to rev for 4KmH > > packets, but I won't swear to that.}  The CIPCA was never tried withD > > a CI20, and I'll give good odds that CI20s don't use 4K packets. > D > That still sounds like a software problem.  I doubt that the CIPCAI > hardware or firmware is incapable of dealing with smaller packets; it's E > probably just a matter of the VMS driver wanting to use 4K packets.n > L > Can the CI780 handle 4K packets?  If so, since the CI20 design is similar, > it probably can as well. > G > The CI20 doesn't normally use 4K packets.  To determine whether it isIH > capable of dealing with them, I'd have to study the CI20 print set and > the CI20 microcode sources.  > F > But given that there doesn't appear to be any way that I can get theD > source to the CIPCA driver, maybe I'll have to build my own PCI CIF > adapter using an FPGA.  Building RP06 and TU77 emulators is a higher > priority, though.r  E IIRC, the 4K packet limit was built into the CIPCA microarchitecture;iF I don't recall if it was mere on-board firmware, or buried more deeplyC in programmable sequencers.  Note that while the CIPCA uCode can belF reloaded from the host, this does lead to the restriction when bootingG through the CIPCA that both old and new uCode work well enough to boot.a  F I don't think the CI780 could support 4K packets; that's why the CIPCAE could not cohabitate with any CI780/CI750/CIBCI or HSC50 nodes.  And, 0 I'll bet that the CI20 had the same restriction. -- n Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 06:17:52 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)o Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha CIh< Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0204230517.75fa084@posting.google.com>  F > But given that there doesn't appear to be any way that I can get theD > source to the CIPCA driver, maybe I'll have to build my own PCI CIF > adapter using an FPGA.  Building RP06 and TU77 emulators is a higher > priority, though.    Eric,d  F Did you purchase them at a recurring auction or one-off?  How much didC you get them for?  Willing to sell one?  (or both now that it seemsu; they will be incompatible with your desired configuration)?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:02:00 -0400v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>k$ Subject: VAXCRTL and DECCRTLs on VAX, Message-ID: <3CC5310B.F508CDCE@videotron.ca>  H Looking at decwindows TPU, I have found that it still makes use of VAX-CC shareable images (run time and messages) as well as the DEC-C ones.o  N Is there really a reason for TPU to still use VAX-C  RTL ? I would have thoughM that by now (7.2), they would have recompiled/relinked the beast to use DEC-CmD only. (surely, they updated the code when porting to Alpha, right ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:52:49 -0000i From: sword7@speakeasy.org Subject: VI editor for OpenVMS?t/ Message-ID: <ucata1otvrfffc@corp.supernews.com>M   Hello folks:  D I am working on my TS10 emulator.  Now OpenVMS normally boots on it.E OpenVMS is running stable.  On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out how @ to search for a word through TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copyH of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I know that vi editor originally was designedB for Unix.  I was looking through ftp.process.com but have not find a vi editor for OpenVMS yet.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:57:27 +0100 (MET)_9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t Subject: VI editor for OpenVMS?4; Message-ID: <01KGWS24VP1Q8Y6CT5@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>>  H > On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out how to search for a word throughG > TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copy of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I know'I > that vi editor originally was designed for Unix.  I was looking throughiA > ftp.process.com but have not find a vi editor for OpenVMS yet. n  C I'm not aware of any vi for VMS.  The question is WHY?  If you are  F working on VMS, it is certainly worth the trouble to learn EDT and/or : EVE.  Certainly searching for a word is trivial in either.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:07:34 -0700s+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>d# Subject: Re: VI editor for OpenVMS?l' Message-ID: <3CC578B6.4020303@mmaz.com>h   Phillip Helbig wrote:u  H >>On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out how to search for a word throughG >>TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copy of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I knowSI >>that vi editor originally was designed for Unix.  I was looking through A >>ftp.process.com but have not find a vi editor for OpenVMS yet. a >> > D >I'm not aware of any vi for VMS.  The question is WHY?  If you are G >working on VMS, it is certainly worth the trouble to learn EDT and/or r; >EVE.  Certainly searching for a word is trivial in either.  >eH The same argument can be made as to why VMS folks (which I have been to F 22 years) don't use vi on Unix and find various edt emulators.  There H are editing techniques that vi does better than edt, I can't say of eve F because I never liked it from the beginning and therefore never spent G much time with it, but the fact is, if you are flipping back and forth  G between systems, having the same editor on both can be an aid, which I u) believe gets us back to my first point...a   Barrya   >n >h   -- e  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028r   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 17:09:57 +0200+ From: huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)h# Subject: Re: VI editor for OpenVMS?1+ Message-ID: <gRQy+qL0EGYI@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>.  L In article <ucata1otvrfffc@corp.supernews.com>, sword7@speakeasy.org writes: > Hello folks: > F > I am working on my TS10 emulator.  Now OpenVMS normally boots on it.G > OpenVMS is running stable.  On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out howyB > to search for a word through TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copyJ > of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I know that vi editor originally was designedD > for Unix.  I was looking through ftp.process.com but have not find > a vi editor for OpenVMS yet.   Look here: H*               http://www.polarfox.com/vim/   It's VI-iMproved for VMS.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:11:38 +0200:9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h# Subject: Re: VI editor for OpenVMS?t' Message-ID: <3CC579AA.A3FBACCE@aaa.com>s   Check :r  - http://www.faqs.org/faqs/editor-faq/vi/part1/p   Jan-Erik Sderholm.v    - > > Is there a copy of VI editor for OpenVMS?m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:09:06 -0700a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t# Subject: RE: VI editor for OpenVMS?u9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEPPEMAA.tom@kednos.com>   @ Emacs has (or at least used to) have a vi emulation mode, though? I never used it, vi was a full screen extension of ed which wase flawed from the outset.    -----Original Message-----2 From: Joseph Huber [mailto:huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de]% Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:10 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # Subject: Re: VI editor for OpenVMS?o    L In article <ucata1otvrfffc@corp.supernews.com>, sword7@speakeasy.org writes: > Hello folks: >aF > I am working on my TS10 emulator.  Now OpenVMS normally boots on it.G > OpenVMS is running stable.  On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out how4B > to search for a word through TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copyJ > of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I know that vi editor originally was designedD > for Unix.  I was looking through ftp.process.com but have not find > a vi editor for OpenVMS yet.  
 Look here:*               http://www.polarfox.com/vim/   It's VI-iMproved for VMS.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:49:18 GMTe* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com># Subject: Re: VI editor for OpenVMS?m) Message-ID: <3CC58F66.4030003@compaq.com>    sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:e > Hello folks: > F > I am working on my TS10 emulator.  Now OpenVMS normally boots on it.G > OpenVMS is running stable.  On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out hownB > to search for a word through TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copyJ > of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I know that vi editor originally was designedD > for Unix.  I was looking through ftp.process.com but have not find > a vi editor for OpenVMS yet. >  > Thank you! >  > -- Tim Stark >   H Besides "vim" (which somebody else pointed to at), there are also a TPU I package which does a pretty good job at making TPU look like VI.  It was yH good enough such that I couldn't get out of the editor and I had to log H into another terminal just to do STOP/ID.  Just like real VI on UNIX... I   I don't have a pointer right now, but I can dig it up if "vim" doesn't f
 do the trick.    -- t John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaders   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 10:41:52 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)u# Subject: Re: VI editor for OpenVMS?s= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0204230941.1db2c57e@posting.google.com>g  J > > On OpenVMS system, I was figuring out how to search for a word throughI > > TPU or EDT editor.  Is there a copy of VI editor for OpenVMS?  I knowsK > > that vi editor originally was designed for Unix.  I was looking throughoC > > ftp.process.com but have not find a vi editor for OpenVMS yet. h > E > I'm not aware of any vi for VMS.  The question is WHY?  If you are bH > working on VMS, it is certainly worth the trouble to learn EDT and/or < > EVE.  Certainly searching for a word is trivial in either.  D There is indeed a vi for OpenVMS.  I think it exists on the freewareD CD.  The regular expressions capability in vi is very strong.  So, IC understand the desire for someone coming from UNIX to want vi.  EDT B has its own nice features.  It is my impression that more powerfulE features are programmable in TPU/EVE, but I have not found the need.  C If you are going to be working on OpenVMS for a while, learning theT native tools is a good idea.   JMOD   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:10:28 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: VMS 7.3-1 SDK?f8 Message-ID: <r2gacu04kvj4odkmad6s99b3j2ek59eik9@4ax.com>  E Can anyone tell me if there will be a 7.3-1 wide release SDK for beta<2 testers as has been the case with recent releases?  D I've noticed a couple of postings from people who seem to be testing) 7.3-1 but haven't seen any announcements.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:09:53 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org) Message-ID: <3CC54F11.74852411@127.0.0.1>r   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:e > 7 > This was one of those things I never expected, but...  > H > I've been approached for an account from one of the people running theM > windows sucks website. In addition to wanting an account they're interestedw2 > in having something about VMS to go on the site.  " I'm amazed no-one has bitten this.  : I expressed an extremely brief personal opinion on VMS at   * http://www.python.demon.co.uk/digital.html  B I've often waxed lyrical here. Try searching this newsgroup for myB surname, and you may pick up the odd opinionated gem that could beH useful. Let me know if you intend to use anything, and I'll sanction it.> Be aware my email at work can be flaky, so resend when needed.  A [I'm not really good with time at the moment, just after the rainoC started pouring, a torrential monsoon hit across most aspects of myB+ existence and I've no idea when it'll stop]  -- >( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 06:00:37 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)>1 Subject: Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of lifew5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dXfvbKbYNwIL@localhost>a  F On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:42:13 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  wrote:  & > I don't include my email in my .sig. > I didn't receive this spam.-- > The addresses in my headers are valid ones.s > C > I was wondering if the list was being processed alphabetically...e > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland   ) Must be doing it in reverse order then...c  F Actually, I don't mind that much. If it were overwhelming my mailbox IF might feel more outraged but it's short, not HTML or MIME and, I have @ to say, it's good to see that someone out there considers VMS a F platform worth developing for. OTOH I'm not in a position to use, much# less buy, the product in question. c   -- a Cheers - Dave.  E Of course, it could be part of a last ditch attempt to keep Attunity  E in development and if that were the case and it failed, well another :3 nail applied to the VMS coffin. i.e. one app. less.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:18:10 +01008( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life ) Message-ID: <3CC542F2.67AB5B95@127.0.0.1>M   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > K > This morning I got spam mail for I think was some type of sex.  It was in H > German - so it's just a guess ;-)  I wonder if the spam bots are smartN > enough to spot what they think looks like a German surname, and send mail in > the appropriate language.o  H I get a lot of Spanish stuff relating to Argentina and Brazil on my work address.  G Home address is a different story. With 50 daily bits of spam spam spaml: spam spam spam, spam lovely spam, wonderful spam (SHUT UP)  D Sorry. with the increase I'm getting at home and only average 1 realC email a day, I'm going to have to close down my home email and findoF another account. I have to try to get my ISP to understand that I justE want email rejected and I have to change my web pages that contain my & current plain email how to contact me.  D Ideally what ever solution I have, ultimately I want to get valuable@ ones back to my VMS system one way or another. Maybe spamcop andG selective forwarding to a VMS account, where I can periodically back upaH the mail file for transfer to my system, but I also need to find someone@ friendly to allow that. Dunno how it'll work but I also lack the> personal time to set this up right now, but ideas listened to.  E [My systems are going to have to be dormant for a couple of months atd least].i  = I started on the 'net in 1994, and in 2002 I get spammed off.M   Sign of the times? -- d( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 13:54:33 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s1 Subject: Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life-, Message-ID: <aa3p2p$1bbk$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <aa1k4m$110c@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>,@  jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) writes:h |> In article <aa18u7$6vuli$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:O |> >But are you sure that they harvested your e-mail from here? I too post with O |> >my true e-mail address, I get a lot of spam from complete idiots, but I goteL |> >nothing from Attunity. If they had harvested from this newsgroup I wouldC |> >have received it. Did you ask them where they got your address?= |>  A |> What about attendance at a VMS-oriented conference or seminar?  |> iN |> Say, for example, they pulled it from a vendor at CETS2001?  Off a businessL |> card, perhaps?  I know that the address I received the "white paper" spam; |> at was an address that CETS2001 would probably have had.o  ? Never been to one.  The only connections between me and VMS arei> this group, Compaq's records, DECUS records, Encompass records> and The Hobbyist Program.  I would hope the last four could beA trusted to not sell my email address to outsiders and that leavesa only farming this group.  ? But, as I said, where the address came from doesn't matter.  AsR> far as I'm concerned, they will never get any business from meC and if in my professional capacity I am ever called upon to commentI on them, it will be negatively.I   bill   -- vJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2002 13:59:29 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)l1 Subject: Re: VMS Spammer, the lowest form of life , Message-ID: <aa3pc1$1bbk$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <aa1nql$26qk$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>,8  "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: |>  L |> This morning I got spam mail for I think was some type of sex.  It was inI |> German - so it's just a guess ;-)  I wonder if the spam bots are smartnO |> enough to spot what they think looks like a German surname, and send mail inC |> the appropriate language. |> o  K I doubt it.  Look at my name.  I receive SPAM in Chinese, Japanese, Korean,,H German, Finish, Russian, French, Spanish, Portugese.  And these are justG the languages I can recognize.  I have always been personally amazed attI this practice when considered with the fact that Americans are famous forn being mono-lingual.o   bill   -- IJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:27:18 +0200c% From: "IdrEASY" <IdrEASY@bigfoot.com>b2 Subject: Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse* Message-ID: <aa2ut2$ah70$1@as201.hinet.hr>  H Yes, I know. I thought that it maybe could work like mouse in Clipper or Norton Commander under DOS.n  0 "Ade" <adrian.birkett@ic24.net> wrote in message: news:z01x8.2748$Cp4.253301@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...F > Off the top of my head, probably NO. VT terminals are character cellH > terminals, not windows based. Look for a DecWindows terminal (VXT?) orG > something similar. I'm sure someone else can confirm or give a better  > explanation. >0 > Ade2 > D > === If the world is a stage and we are merely actore, I WANT A NEW > SCRIPTWRITER !!! === >s2 > "IdrEASY" <IdrEASY@bigfoot.com> wrote in message% > news:aa21qt$f4c$1@brown.net4u.hr...  > > Hi!e > > J > > Does it exist some "chemistry" for using PC mouse on VT terminals (I'd > like" > > to use it with SMG$ routines)? > >s > >- >R >?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:35:13 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p5 Subject: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?-, Message-ID: <3CC50EAD.5B20E8AA@videotron.ca>  L Since /UIC in the run command does not behave as the documentation leads oneK to believe, and never has when creating detached processes, why was it everwL put in there and why does the documentation lead one to believe that you canB actually create a detached process running under a different UIC ?  H VAX VMS 7.2 HELP RUN PROCESS  says that a detached process is created ifK /DETACHED *or* /UIC is specified. /UIC specifies that it gets created undergK the specified UIC. in the /DETACHED section, it specifies that the detachedhC process is created with the same username unless /UIC is specified.k  K Why isn't there create and unequivocal text that states that no matter what-L you specify, RUN /DETACHED and/or /UIC will always create a detached process running under your username ?l  8 And why was /UIC ever put ? what does it *actually* do ?  J And is there a reason why RUN/UIC could not have been designed to actuallyN start a process to run under the specified UIC, with that UIC's privileges and( quotas (with /AUTHORIZE, or course) ????    N Because of this, I am having to grant a username acesses and privileges that I3 do not want to grant because it doesn't need them. r  H In the past, I used SUBMIT/USER= to have the user start its own detachedL process, but this requires the user have batch access as well as the ability to run/detached.  M I fail to understand why RUN/UIC= was never actually implemented the way most  people would want it to run.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 07:58:30 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org9 Subject: Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?-3 Message-ID: <fCVdBmhQIjZl@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  \ In article <3CC50EAD.5B20E8AA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N > Since /UIC in the run command does not behave as the documentation leads oneM > to believe, and never has when creating detached processes, why was it eversN > put in there and why does the documentation lead one to believe that you canD > actually create a detached process running under a different UIC ?   It works as documented.   J > VAX VMS 7.2 HELP RUN PROCESS  says that a detached process is created ifM > /DETACHED *or* /UIC is specified. /UIC specifies that it gets created under M > the specified UIC. in the /DETACHED section, it specifies that the detached E > process is created with the same username unless /UIC is specified.2  ' That's not what the documentation says.u  ( It says same _UIC_, not same _username_.  E UIC and username are two different things.  UIC is a 32 bit longword.i7 Username is a 12 character (last I looked) text string.h  M > Why isn't there create and unequivocal text that states that no matter whattN > you specify, RUN /DETACHED and/or /UIC will always create a detached process > running under your username ?a  A Beats me.  But you're right.  The 12 character username and the 8 @ character account field are implicitly inherited by the detached> process.  Can't be specified explicitly.  Can't be overridden.  : > And why was /UIC ever put ? what does it *actually* do ?  3 It specifies the 32 bit UIC of the created process.g  L > And is there a reason why RUN/UIC could not have been designed to actuallyP > start a process to run under the specified UIC, with that UIC's privileges and* > quotas (with /AUTHORIZE, or course) ????  < Finally.  A description of the actual problem you're having.  D When you detach SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE with /AUTHORIZE (or with the@ PRC$M_NOUAF flag clear) the UIC of the detached image is largely? irrelevant because LOGINOUT.EXE uses the 12 character username,e? does a lookup in the UAF and logs the detached process in usingh@ the corresponding record in the UAF.  That includes changing the= UIC of the detached process to the UIC obtained from the UAF.2  ? The key used in this case for UAF lookup is username.  Not UIC.l  A If you're not running LOGINOUT.EXE or not running with /AUTHORIZE ' then /UIC works as expected, of course.   P > Because of this, I am having to grant a username acesses and privileges that I4 > do not want to grant because it doesn't need them. >-J > In the past, I used SUBMIT/USER= to have the user start its own detachedN > process, but this requires the user have batch access as well as the ability > to run/detached.  F Since SUBMIT/USER requires chicken privilege (change mode to Colonel),E you can have the user run a program that changes his user name beforecE doing the RUN /UIC.  I used to just cram the text into CTL$T_USERNAMEoC and JIB$T_USERNAME.  (CTL$T_USERNAME was the one that mattered if I2D remember right).  But that was 10 years ago and I think the relevantB stuff moved into an ORB.  You're probably best served by using the PERSONA services for this.  O > I fail to understand why RUN/UIC= was never actually implemented the way mosti > people would want it to run.  E It works fine.  It does what it is supposed to.  The real question isu@ why the $CREPRC system service doesn't have username and account- parameters and privilege checks on their use.d  > Since $CREPRC is older than the IMPERSONATE privilege, one can perhaps forgive the lapse.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 10:06:12 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?h3 Message-ID: <HCeCHU$Q6iD6@eisner.encompasserve.org>V  T In article <fCVdBmhQIjZl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:^ > In article <3CC50EAD.5B20E8AA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  P >> I fail to understand why RUN/UIC= was never actually implemented the way most >> people would want it to run.  > G > It works fine.  It does what it is supposed to.  The real question isaB > why the $CREPRC system service doesn't have username and account/ > parameters and privilege checks on their use.   D Then people will want quota, etc.  That is what LOGINOUT does in theF newly started process.  LOGINOUT does this by looking into RMS indexedE files (among other things).  You cannot do that from Kernel mode, ando% $CREPRC is callable from Kernel mode.t  G On the VMS V7.3 Documentation CDROM look at the Description section forXM $CREATE_USER_PROFILE at file:///VMSDOC073/v73/4527/4527pro_016.html#jun_131 .f  G The bulleted list show the mess that one gets into when a service needsaJ to work from kernel mode and (sometimes) read RMS Data.  It is much betterG that such shenanigans be restricted to $CREATE_USER_PROFILE and similarrF services that are only of interest to those who really care about thisA security stuff.  For $CREPRC, keeping things simple (and backward  compatible) is better.  @ > Since $CREPRC is older than the IMPERSONATE privilege, one can > perhaps forgive the lapse.  ? IMPERSONATE is just a better name for the old DETACH privilege.u   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 08:08:00 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)y9 Subject: Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?l= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204230707.5cd8c19e@posting.google.com>i  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CC50EAD.5B20E8AA@videotron.ca>...eN > Since /UIC in the run command does not behave as the documentation leads oneM > to believe, and never has when creating detached processes, why was it ever N > put in there and why does the documentation lead one to believe that you canD > actually create a detached process running under a different UIC ?  ? $ RUN/UIC works in the same way as $ SET UIC does. For example:D   (with privs)   $ show proc-  G 24-APR-2002 00:40:40.45   User: PATRICK          Process ID:   202015C9gP                           Node: TEACH            Process name: "APR 23 23:24:18"   Terminal:           FTA23:" User Identifier:    [SADM,PATRICK] ...S H ty sp.com  $ show procsC H run/uic=system/out='f$trnlnm("tt")/inp=sp.com sys$system:loginouti= %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 20201667a $! SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM $!------------------------ H-  G 24-APR-2002 00:41:12.35   User: PATRICK          Process ID:   20201667rA                           Node: TEACH            Process name: ""s  	 Terminal:4 User Identifier:    [SYSTEM] ...p H set uic system	 H sh proco  G 24-APR-2002 00:42:22.18   User: PATRICK          Process ID:   202015C9rP                           Node: TEACH            Process name: "APR 23 23:24:18"   Terminal:           FTA23: User Identifier:    [SYSTEM] ...n  D In particular you needed the DETACH privilege to be able to create aB process that impersonates another user. The required privilege was4 renamed to IMPERSONATE to better reflect it's usage.  D It is an interesting privilege since once you have it, you "own" theC whole "shooting match" - ie: can become system and do as you wish - I "all over Rose" - if the wrong user gets it. There are a number of otherswF that give the same effect if used correctly, - however this one really" stands out in "ease of use terms".  B If you don't want the PQL_D* type quotas you can use /AUTHORIZE to; gain the quotas of the UIC you are running your process as.d  M > the specified UIC. in the /DETACHED section, it specifies that the detached-E > process is created with the same username unless /UIC is specified.e  * UIC, Where did username ever come into it?  M > Why isn't there create and unequivocal text that states that no matter whataN > you specify, RUN /DETACHED and/or /UIC will always create a detached process > running under your username ?i > : > And why was /UIC ever put ? what does it *actually* do ?  : Make you "SYSTEM" if you have IMPERSONATE (or DETACH) :-).   L > And is there a reason why RUN/UIC could not have been designed to actuallyL > start a process to run under the specified UIC, with that UIC's privileges. > and quotas (with /AUTHORIZE, or course) ????  J Then you are wanting a batch job. I run all my Apache web servers as batch* jobs with the username APACHE for example.   N > Because of this, I am having to grant a username acesses and privileges that7 > I do not want to grant because it doesn't need them. f   What exactly you trying to do?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:51:25 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 9 Subject: Re: What does /UIC actually do in run/detached ?-, Message-ID: <3CC59F1C.B47D7522@videotron.ca>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:r > It works as documented.V* > It says same _UIC_, not same _username_.    L However, if I want a detached process to run using UAF quotas and privilegesJ of a specific username, how do I accomplish that from the SYSTEM account ?M (without submit/user or writing a program to impersonate desired user who mayw/ not have the privs to start a detached process)e  K What exactly is the point of having some process run with your username butn
 another UIC ?a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:15:56 GMT " From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)  Subject: [java] running detached/ Message-ID: <3cc7855b.14008742@News.CIS.DFN.DE>e  K If I run Java as a detached process, how do I capture Java's output (stdout  and stderr)?		  7 For instance, if I run this command file interactively:y   ===TOMCAT.COM====a  / $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131.com]JAVA$131_SETUP FASTm( $ java "-jar" "./lib/tomcat.jar" "start"   ==================  ( then I can see the output, but if I use:  M RUN/DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=TOMCAT$DET.COM /OUTPUT=TOMCAT.LOG - 	M     /PROCESS=TOMCATe  L then the error that Java reports goes unseen. How do I get the stdout/err to the terminal or to a logfile?b   Thanks.e     -- d   Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartelk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:24:00 -0400t1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>m$ Subject: Re: [java] running detached2 Message-ID: <3CC58AA0.326CBAB6@clarityconnect.com>  0 Try adding /ERROR=TOMCAT.LOG to the RUN command.   Ken Kalish wrote:u > M > If I run Java as a detached process, how do I capture Java's output (stdoutA > and stderr)? > 9 > For instance, if I run this command file interactively:c >  > ===TOMCAT.COM====o > 1 > $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131.com]JAVA$131_SETUP FASTu* > $ java "-jar" "./lib/tomcat.jar" "start" >  > ================== > * > then I can see the output, but if I use: > M > RUN/DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=TOMCAT$DET.COM /OUTPUT=TOMCAT.LOG -r >     /PROCESS=TOMCATe > N > then the error that Java reports goes unseen. How do I get the stdout/err to > the terminal or to a logfile?e > 	 > Thanks.  >  > -- > 
 > Regards, >  > Ken Kalish >  > there is no Java cartelr   -- fC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYe0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2002 12:17:49 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org$ Subject: Re: [java] running detached3 Message-ID: <19mSpRk0IAK8@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  f In article <3CC58AA0.326CBAB6@clarityconnect.com>, "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes:2 > Try adding /ERROR=TOMCAT.LOG to the RUN command.  A Won't work.  He's running SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT as the image in theuF detached process.  And LOGINOUT.EXE maps SYS$OUTPUT and SYS$ERROR both0 to the file identified in the /OUTPUT= qualifier  = The /ERROR= qualifier is essentially irrelevant in this case.   A If the log file isn't working, the first thing to do is to get ittG working.  Skip the java stuff and just put a $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Blah!" B into the detached com file.  Once you get that output to appear in; the log file, you can start asking why Java output does noto
 appear there.   N >> RUN/DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=TOMCAT$DET.COM /OUTPUT=TOMCAT.LOG - >>     /PROCESS=TOMCAT >> 3O >> then the error that Java reports goes unseen. How do I get the stdout/err toc  >> the terminal or to a logfile?  C I'd be looking at the possibility that in the absence of /AUTHORIZE<F and in the absence of fully qualified file names, the detached process: can't find TOMCAT$DET.COM.  It doesn't know where to look.  F And I'd be using $ ACCOUNTING to see if the exit code for the detached' process is consistent with this theory.r   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:21:39 -0400 (EDT)oL From: "MANNY NORMAN, SR. SYSTEMS PROGRAMMER" <NORMAN_MANNY@ONLINE.EMICH.EDU>$ Subject: Re: [java] running detached1 Message-ID: <01KGWKK45E9M939A7F@ONLINE.EMICH.EDU>    	This is the way I do it:   I 	Create a command file to run the java program.  Then create another one i) to run loginout detached.  Example below:u     -----------------u   The command file:   7 $ set default "the directory containing the java class".* $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$130.COM]JAVA$130_SETUP1 $ java "-Xmx2000000" "The name of the java class"y   --------------------   The command file to do run   $ run sys$system:loginout.exe --'      /input= "the command file above" -,      /detach -!      /process_name = "whatever" -A!      /output = "some file name" -0#      /error = "another file name" -s      .... other qualifiers   ------------------   	Good luck.t   	Manny.e    8                    -------------------------------------.                               Manuel J. Norman2                          Senior Systems Programmer<                 Academic and Technology Integration Services3                         Eastern Michigan Universityb5                       Phone: (734) 487-0020, Ext 2018h8                    e-mail: norman_manny@online.emich.edu8                    -------------------------------------  K   !! OpenVMS sets the standard for reliable, secure, available computing !!    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.224 ************************