1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 25 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 227       Contents:< ===Medical Breakthrough...Aging can be reversed=== 632111000< ===Medical Breakthrough...Aging can be reversed=== 632111000! Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network  ACE propagation problems ADA on Hobbyist CD? (VAXVMS072)  Re: adapter for 4000 ? RE: adapter for 4000 ? Re: adapter for 4000 ?> Re: allow users to read a "log" file as it is being written to Re: Alpha 3000/5009 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family  Re: Best DIGITAL product ever? Re: Best DIGITAL product ever? Re: Best DIGITAL product ever? Re: Best DIGITAL product ever? Re: Cache Performance   Re: DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem Re: DSSI Interconnect 
 EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE (TECO!)- Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! 0 Re: Inquirer even says Alpha in Itanium in 2005!3 Re: IONA Application Server / OpenVMS Press Release : LA210 + KB (was Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse)1 Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated ? Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer) ? Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer) ? Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer) ? Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)  Re: Netscape and Mozilla RE: Netscape and Mozilla Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)  Openvm 7.3 and DECevent  Re: Openvm 7.3 and DECevent  Re: Openvm 7.3 and DECevent  OT: AOL 
 Re: PC Worker 
 Re: PC Worker 
 Re: PC Worker 
 Re: PC Worker 
 RE: PC Worker  Re: Reading a file in java> Re: somewhat off-topic: is there a DSL router with a console?!  Re: Suggestion: SET DEVICE/RESET6 Survey result: to migrate or not to migrate, and where Re: tape problems #2 Re: TCPWare Vs MultiNet O Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) O Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) O Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) O Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) P Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) P Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) " VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& RE: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe Re: VAX/Alpha CI Re: VAXCLUSTER license RE: VAXCLUSTER license RE: VAXCLUSTER license RE: VAXCLUSTER license Re: VAXCLUSTER license' Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org ) Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse ) RE: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse   Re: where can I find older DECC?  RE: where can I find older DECC?' Re: X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:24:08 -0700  From: andrew632111@messpro.comE Subject: ===Medical Breakthrough...Aging can be reversed=== 632111000 8 Message-ID: <200204250525.g3P5PJp19376@mail.vrfield.com>  @ All HGH (Human Growth Hormone) products are not the same.  There0 are three different types of products. Yet, all / three are advertised as if they where the same.     The three types are: 1) Homeopathic HGH 2) Pre-cursor HGH 1 3) Real or synthetic HGH (delivered by injection   or, by an oral spray method).     Do you know differences?   & Call us and we'll explain them to you.   % Our toll free number is 888-621-7300.    / For more information on HGH read on............    M *****************************************************************************   HAVE YOU HEARD OF   HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE (HGH)???    @      Released by your own pituitary gland, HGH starts declining @ in your 20s, even more in your 30s and 40s, eventually resulting. in the shrinkage of major organs -- plus, all " other symptoms related to old age.      " IN THOUSANDS OF CLINICAL STUDIES, / HGH HAS BEEN SHOWN TO ACCOMPLISH THE FOLLOWING:    ( * Reduce Body Fat and Build Lean Muscle     WITHOUT EXERCISE!    * Enhance Sexual Performance    * Remove Wrinkles and Cellulite    6 * Lower Blood Pressure and Improve Cholesterol Profile   " * Improve Sleep, Vision and Memory    * Restore Hair Color and Growth     * Strengthen the Immune System   $ * Increase Energy and Cardiac Output   ; * Turn back your body's Biological Time Clock 10 - 20 years     * Live Longer AND Stronger   $ All natural and organic plant based    * FEEL 10 YEARS YOUNGER WITH ORAL SPRAY HGH.
 GUARANTEED   =     We are the manufacturer and we sell directly to Doctors,  9 Chiropractors, and consumers world wide the highest grade   HGH Oral Spray available.     >      With internet marketing, we are able to save advertising ) cost and pass those savings along to you.  But you must act now.      ) To receive more information call  us now.    $             TOLL FREE 1-888-621-7300   5 We must speak to you in person to qualify your usage.    I      All of your questions will be addressed and answered in a friendly,  < no pressure manner.  Our main purpose is to provide you with2  information so you can make an educated decision.         For more information call                1-888-621-7300   #  If you are on line write down our  & phone number and call us when you can.   8 Soon, you and your loved ones will be very glad you did.    Read what people are saying:   ! "The effects of 6 months of GH on & lean body mass and fat were equivalent$ in magnitude to the changes incurred during 10-20 years of aging."  Dr. Daniel Rudman, MD,  New England Journal of Medicine.   * "Within four months, my body fat decreased(  form 30% down to 21%! I noticed my skin%  is more supple and my overall mental !  outlook improved significantly."   D.W., New Jersey    + "We have been on the spray for just 3 weeks ) now, and besides the tremendous energy we + both feel, my husbands allergies and spells ' of depression have lifted. I am healing ) extremely fast after an accident and have  lost 7 lbs. without trying!" C.B., Flagstaff. AZ     Thanks for reading our letter,
 The HGH Staff  USA Division   " PS:  The HGH Staff guarantees the ! highest quality and lowest price.    /  We manufacture and ship directly to your door.   Offer expires 19 April 2002 Call us now 1-888-621-7300   ; ***********************************************************    # =======   End of message ========      -        To Qualify for a Free HGH Consultation    (             call the HGH Staff -- Today.   ; *********************************************************** -    The following statement is provided to be  ) in compliance with commercial email laws.    (    If you do not wish to receive further mailings, please click reply  $  and type remvoe in the subject box. Then click send.   *    This message is in full compliance with( U.S. Federal requirements for commercial/ email under bill S.1618 Title lll, Section 301, , Paragraph (a)(2)(C) passed by the 105th U.S.# Congress and is not considered SPAM % since it includes a remove mechanism. ; *********************************************************** 1 This message is not intended for residents in the ' states of CA, NC, NV, RI, TN, VA & WA.  0 Screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability.    ; *********************************************************** ;  Call us now 1-888-621-7300 for your free HGH consultation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:24:07 -0700  From: andrew632111@messpro.comE Subject: ===Medical Breakthrough...Aging can be reversed=== 632111000 8 Message-ID: <200204250525.g3P5PIp19373@mail.vrfield.com>  @ All HGH (Human Growth Hormone) products are not the same.  There0 are three different types of products. Yet, all / three are advertised as if they where the same.     The three types are: 1) Homeopathic HGH 2) Pre-cursor HGH 1 3) Real or synthetic HGH (delivered by injection   or, by an oral spray method).     Do you know differences?   & Call us and we'll explain them to you.   % Our toll free number is 888-621-7300.    / For more information on HGH read on............    M *****************************************************************************   HAVE YOU HEARD OF   HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE (HGH)???    @      Released by your own pituitary gland, HGH starts declining @ in your 20s, even more in your 30s and 40s, eventually resulting. in the shrinkage of major organs -- plus, all " other symptoms related to old age.      " IN THOUSANDS OF CLINICAL STUDIES, / HGH HAS BEEN SHOWN TO ACCOMPLISH THE FOLLOWING:    ( * Reduce Body Fat and Build Lean Muscle     WITHOUT EXERCISE!    * Enhance Sexual Performance    * Remove Wrinkles and Cellulite    6 * Lower Blood Pressure and Improve Cholesterol Profile   " * Improve Sleep, Vision and Memory    * Restore Hair Color and Growth     * Strengthen the Immune System   $ * Increase Energy and Cardiac Output   ; * Turn back your body's Biological Time Clock 10 - 20 years     * Live Longer AND Stronger   $ All natural and organic plant based    * FEEL 10 YEARS YOUNGER WITH ORAL SPRAY HGH.
 GUARANTEED   =     We are the manufacturer and we sell directly to Doctors,  9 Chiropractors, and consumers world wide the highest grade   HGH Oral Spray available.     >      With internet marketing, we are able to save advertising ) cost and pass those savings along to you.  But you must act now.      ) To receive more information call  us now.    $             TOLL FREE 1-888-621-7300   5 We must speak to you in person to qualify your usage.    I      All of your questions will be addressed and answered in a friendly,  < no pressure manner.  Our main purpose is to provide you with2  information so you can make an educated decision.         For more information call                1-888-621-7300   #  If you are on line write down our  & phone number and call us when you can.   8 Soon, you and your loved ones will be very glad you did.    Read what people are saying:   ! "The effects of 6 months of GH on & lean body mass and fat were equivalent$ in magnitude to the changes incurred during 10-20 years of aging."  Dr. Daniel Rudman, MD,  New England Journal of Medicine.   * "Within four months, my body fat decreased(  form 30% down to 21%! I noticed my skin%  is more supple and my overall mental !  outlook improved significantly."   D.W., New Jersey    + "We have been on the spray for just 3 weeks ) now, and besides the tremendous energy we + both feel, my husbands allergies and spells ' of depression have lifted. I am healing ) extremely fast after an accident and have  lost 7 lbs. without trying!" C.B., Flagstaff. AZ     Thanks for reading our letter,
 The HGH Staff  USA Division   " PS:  The HGH Staff guarantees the ! highest quality and lowest price.    /  We manufacture and ship directly to your door.   Offer expires 19 April 2002 Call us now 1-888-621-7300   ; ***********************************************************    # =======   End of message ========      -        To Qualify for a Free HGH Consultation    (             call the HGH Staff -- Today.   ; *********************************************************** -    The following statement is provided to be  ) in compliance with commercial email laws.    (    If you do not wish to receive further mailings, please click reply  $  and type remvoe in the subject box. Then click send.   *    This message is in full compliance with( U.S. Federal requirements for commercial/ email under bill S.1618 Title lll, Section 301, , Paragraph (a)(2)(C) passed by the 105th U.S.# Congress and is not considered SPAM % since it includes a remove mechanism. ; *********************************************************** 1 This message is not intended for residents in the ' states of CA, NC, NV, RI, TN, VA & WA.  0 Screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability.    ; *********************************************************** ;  Call us now 1-888-621-7300 for your free HGH consultation.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:42:55 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> * Subject: Re: Accessing CD-ROM over network' Message-ID: <3CC76FFD.8A313A9E@fsi.net>    issinoho wrote:  > F > This seems like such a nice trick, I'm surprised it hasn't made it's > way into the FAQ.   F Well, technically, it has. My CD-ROM page is linked in the on-line FAQE as are some others. The reverse procedure (VMS disk container file to " alternate platform) is described.   E Extrapolating the procedure for taking the disk image from non-VMS to 3 VMS is generally left as an exercise to the reader.    b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CC4C5DF.5E4DE813@fsi.net>... > > issinoho wrote:  > > >  > > > For all concerned, > > > L > > > Keith's procedure outlined below worked like a charm and allowed me toE > > > create a "virtual CD" on my VAX using an image file. Procedure:  > > > ! > > > 1. Put VAX CD in Linux box. 6 > > > 2. Take image, dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/tmp/disk.img( > > > 3. Binary FTP this file to the VAX( > > > 4. Install LD from the Freeware CD3 > > > 5. Attach file, LD CONNECT/LOG disk.img LDA1: ( > > > 6. Mount disk, MOUNT LDA1: <label> > > > 
 > > > Lovely.  > > K > > Quite literally, this is the reverse of the process of preparing an ODS E > > disk image on VMS using LD or VD, FTP-ing that to another machine L > > (Linux, *BSD, WhineBloze, ...), then burning a CD-R from it on that box. > > 3 > > Very logical, and - I'm sure - very successful!      --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:01:46 GMT 4 From: "Peter A. Stoll" <archae86_unspam@comcast.net>! Subject: ACE propagation problems B Message-ID: <ukKx8.187173$K5.15803392@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  I I've been struggling with the OpenVMS ACL file protection in a particular  need.   I My desire is to allow four specific users to create and change files in a . subdirectory, and to allow all others to read.  F So long as just one of the four users touchs any one file, my existing scheme works fine.  I But when a second one of my "allowed four" changes a file or copies a new J version of a file that a first one previously touched, the first one's ACEG often disappears from the latest revision.  This denies that first user + their ability to update or delete the file.   L Here is (with the names altered) is my actual test case, setting the ACL for a test directory:   ( $ Set security [parent_dir]acltest.dir -	  /acl = ( L (IDENTIFIER=[userid1],options=default+protected,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DE LETE+CONTROL), -D   (IDENTIFIER=[userid1],ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DELETE+CONTROL), -  L (IDENTIFIER=[userid2],options=default+protected,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DE LETE+CONTROL), -D   (IDENTIFIER=[userid2],ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DELETE+CONTROL), -  L (IDENTIFIER=[userid3],options=default+protected,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DE LETE+CONTROL), -D   (IDENTIFIER=[userid3],ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DELETE+CONTROL), -  L (IDENTIFIER=[userid4],options=default+protected,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DE LETE+CONTROL), -D   (IDENTIFIER=[userid4],ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DELETE+CONTROL), -/   (DEFAULT_PROTECTION,S:RWED,O:RWED,G:RE,W:RE))     F Newly created files appear with all four of the "allowed four" user IDI ACE's.  The actual creating user's ACE contains a NOPROPAGATE option, and0< appears at the top of the ACL as displayed by SHOW SECURITY.  L When another of my "allowed" four edits the first user's file with EDIT/EDT,F in multiple (but not exhaustive) trial cases, things work as you wouldK expect.  All four user's ACE's still appear, with the most recent changer's I ACE appearing on top, and adding the NOPROPAGATE option.  (before I addedFJ the "protected" term to the options list, even this transaction caused the' "previous modifier's" ACE to disappear.p  J But other forms of updating (the real forms of interest in my application): commonly cause the "prevous modifier's" ACE to dissappear.  K The workaround I found today was to require to updating code to issue a SETtL SECURITY/DEFAULT on the updated file immediately after the update.  But thisI has obvious timing vulnerabilities, and seems to me to prove that I'm not  doing this correctly.E  J I should be most grateful for any help.  The examples I find in the postedL OpenVMS Guide to System Security seem to imply to me that the approach shownJ above should work, though they don't expressly talk much about the case of9 two different authorized accounts altering the same file.S   Peter A. Stoll. I don't speak for Intel, nor does Intel for me   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:31:34 GMTe7 From: tauberg@nauticom.no_spam_please.net (Jim Tauberg) ( Subject: ADA on Hobbyist CD? (VAXVMS072)0 Message-ID: <3cc78649.7211248@news.nauticom.net>   Hi, 9 	The Application Licenses include ADA, but i don't see ityE anywher on the Hobbyist CD (Vol:  VAXVMS072).  Does anyone know wherel
 to get it?   Thanks,z Jim Te   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:30:59 -0400C, From: David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> Subject: Re: adapter for 4000 ? , Message-ID: <3CC76A63.4C6FD433@email.uc.edu>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > M > I seem to recall that this topic (or one quite similar) is mentioned in thenN > OpenVMS FAQ, and a DEC part number that will make this conversion is listed. >  > WWWebb  F Your right this is what I read in the faqs... This sounds like exactly what I need...  F ""The Digital part number 29-32540-01 converts the output from the RGB cablee? (3 BNC, synch-on-green) that comes with the VAXstation 3100 andn
 VAXstation) 4000 series to a female SVGA D connector.   ? This will allow PC Multisync monitors with the needed frequency C specifications to be used with the VAXstations.  It may work with ar> VAXstation 2000 series, but I have not tried that combination.?                                           [John E. Malmberg] ""     H Can I order this part from Compaq? I can't seem to locate a distributor.   Thanks m     dm     >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETH' > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:11 PM D > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET! > Subject: RE: adapter for 4000 ?n > M > Mitsubishi used to have a device called 'FA-1' that they shipped with their/M > monitors (say 5-6 years ago). It was a small 2"x3"x3"  silver colored thingAJ > that had 5 BNC connectors on one side and a DB-15 connector on the other > side.n > M > I used one for a short while on a 4000/60 for synch-on-green for use with a ) > monochrome video adapter in the VS4000.  > L > You might try the local electronics surplus stores to see if they have any > kicking around.  > ; > "David Michaels" <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote in message-( > news:3CC40933.D8B6EB4A@email.uc.edu... > > Hi > >eJ > > Is there an adapter that will allow VAXstation 4000 computers to use a > > SVGA 15 pin monitor. > >n > >e > >d > >3
 > > Thanks > > David Michaels > > michaedi@email.uc.edul   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:07:30 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>. Subject: RE: adapter for 4000 ?a9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEEHENAA.tom@kednos.com>m  : Last time.  Go buy a cable at your local whatever that hasD 5 BNC (3 fro RGB and 2 for BW) at one end and MALE SVGA at the other  ; You will also need 3 BNC connectors  total outlay about $18   < Of course you can buy the Compaq part, but you will pay more< and you will need an adapter to Male at the SVGA end (HDB15)   >   -----Original Message-----7 >   From: David Michaels [mailto:michaedi@email.uc.edu]O+ >   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:31 PMi >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn# >   Subject: Re: adapter for 4000 ?3 >a >4 >   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  >   >s@ >   > I seem to recall that this topic (or one quite similar) is >   mentioned in the< >   > OpenVMS FAQ, and a DEC part number that will make this >   conversion is listed.e >   >d >   > WWWebb >eJ >   Your right this is what I read in the faqs... This sounds like exactly >   what I need... >lJ >   ""The Digital part number 29-32540-01 converts the output from the RGB	 >   cableVC >   (3 BNC, synch-on-green) that comes with the VAXstation 3100 andh >   VAXstation- >   4000 series to a female SVGA D connector.  > C >   This will allow PC Multisync monitors with the needed frequencyiG >   specifications to be used with the VAXstations.  It may work with aLB >   VAXstation 2000 series, but I have not tried that combination.C >                                             [John E. Malmberg] ""d >n >eL >   Can I order this part from Compaq? I can't seem to locate a distributor. >e
 >   Thanks >  >a >   dm >s >  >   >s  >   > -----Original Message-----5 >   > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe+ >   > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:11 PM H >   > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET% >   > Subject: RE: adapter for 4000 ?e >   >w> >   > Mitsubishi used to have a device called 'FA-1' that they >   shipped with theirC >   > monitors (say 5-6 years ago). It was a small 2"x3"x3"  silvero >   colored thingrA >   > that had 5 BNC connectors on one side and a DB-15 connector  >   on the other >   > side.  >   >aB >   > I used one for a short while on a 4000/60 for synch-on-green >   for use with a- >   > monochrome video adapter in the VS4000.c >   > B >   > You might try the local electronics surplus stores to see if >   they have anyn >   > kicking around.a >   >g? >   > "David Michaels" <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote in message , >   > news:3CC40933.D8B6EB4A@email.uc.edu...
 >   > > Hi >   > >1; >   > > Is there an adapter that will allow VAXstation 4000  >   computers to use a >   > > SVGA 15 pin monitor. >   > >  >   > >  >   > >r >   > >s >   > > Thanks >   > > David Michaels >   > > michaedi@email.uc.eduu >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:09:58 -0400l, From: David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> Subject: Re: adapter for 4000 ?f, Message-ID: <3CC78196.FA434565@email.uc.edu>   Tom Linden wrote:i > < > Last time.  Go buy a cable at your local whatever that hasF > 5 BNC (3 fro RGB and 2 for BW) at one end and MALE SVGA at the other > = > You will also need 3 BNC connectors  total outlay about $18*  9 I've seen these cables around but they seem to cost more.=: $18 dollars sounds good, where can I get a cable for $18?   H Actually all I really want, is to be able to run xdmcp, but xdm seems to0 fail to start when I'm connected to the console.   > > > Of course you can buy the Compaq part, but you will pay more> > and you will need an adapter to Male at the SVGA end (HDB15)   Thanks dm   >   > >   -----Original Message-----9 > >   From: David Michaels [mailto:michaedi@email.uc.edu]i- > >   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:31 PMr > >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm% > >   Subject: Re: adapter for 4000 ?n > >  > >a > >   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:h > >   >.B > >   > I seem to recall that this topic (or one quite similar) is > >   mentioned in the> > >   > OpenVMS FAQ, and a DEC part number that will make this > >   conversion is listed.s > >   >  > >   > WWWebb > > L > >   Your right this is what I read in the faqs... This sounds like exactly > >   what I need... > >*L > >   ""The Digital part number 29-32540-01 converts the output from the RGB > >   cableoE > >   (3 BNC, synch-on-green) that comes with the VAXstation 3100 ande > >   VAXstation/ > >   4000 series to a female SVGA D connector.j > >=E > >   This will allow PC Multisync monitors with the needed frequencyDI > >   specifications to be used with the VAXstations.  It may work with amD > >   VAXstation 2000 series, but I have not tried that combination.E > >                                             [John E. Malmberg] ""  > >  > > N > >   Can I order this part from Compaq? I can't seem to locate a distributor. > >e > >   Thanks > >r > >a > >   dm > >t > >  > >   >y" > >   > -----Original Message-----7 > >   > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET - > >   > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:11 PM J > >   > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET' > >   > Subject: RE: adapter for 4000 ?E > >   > @ > >   > Mitsubishi used to have a device called 'FA-1' that they > >   shipped with theirE > >   > monitors (say 5-6 years ago). It was a small 2"x3"x3"  silveri > >   colored thingoC > >   > that had 5 BNC connectors on one side and a DB-15 connector  > >   on the other
 > >   > side.S > >   >AD > >   > I used one for a short while on a 4000/60 for synch-on-green > >   for use with a/ > >   > monochrome video adapter in the VS4000.n > >   > D > >   > You might try the local electronics surplus stores to see if > >   they have any  > >   > kicking around.o > >   >oA > >   > "David Michaels" <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote in messagen. > >   > news:3CC40933.D8B6EB4A@email.uc.edu... > >   > > Hi	 > >   > >b= > >   > > Is there an adapter that will allow VAXstation 4000N > >   computers to use a > >   > > SVGA 15 pin monitor.	 > >   > >R	 > >   > >I	 > >   > >A	 > >   > >R > >   > > Thanks > >   > > David Michaels > >   > > michaedi@email.uc.eduh > >a   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 14:33:07 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) G Subject: Re: allow users to read a "log" file as it is being written tou3 Message-ID: <jCr+XSRh28g1@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  w In article <01KGYAUDRK7K8Y6W8D@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: @ > I would like to open a file from DCL, periodically write some A > information to it, and have this information visible (e.g. via  J > TYPE/TAIL/CONTINUOUS) to other users.  OPEN/WRITE/SHARE=READ seems like H > the obvious solution.  However, the data are not visible: DIR/SIZ=ALL K > shows a used size of 0 and an allocated size which increases as data are nI > added.  Only after a too long time does the used size increase above 0 n > and data become visible. > F > Do I need some sort of method of "flushing the buffer" so that, for B > example, the output of each WRITE command shows up more or less  > immediately on disk?     $ help set outputt   SETr  
   OUTPUT_RATEf  H        Sets the rate at which output is written to a batch job log file.  C        For use only within command procedures that are submitted ase        batch or detached jobs.  $ Press RETURN to continue ... example     SETd  
   OUTPUT_RATEo       Exampleb            $ SET OUTPUT_RATE=:0:30           .f           .l           .l  B            This command, when executed within a batch job, changesF            the default output rate from once a minute to once every 30            seconds.T   				Robf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:03:27 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Alpha 3000/5002K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2404022103280001@1cust182.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   J In article <ucdbq3oiai7tb7@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:    L >Thanks for the info.  I have one question about the SROM issue though.  TheD >SROM is a 27C512 chip.  The part number is 23-309E7-00.  If I had aL >23-333E7-00 from another Alpha (presumably another 27C512), and access to a4 >burner, is possible to copy the one into the other?  G I assume so.  Isn't that what ROM burners do?  I guess Compaq made themg0 that way, and still has a drawer full somewhere.  J There's likely a copyright involved.  Just now the Compaq lawyers might be7 too busy with one or two other small matters to notice.o   > Then upgrade (if) >needed) to the firmware revision to 7.0?*  L Dunno.  I've never upgraded a 3000-400 with the new SROM.  Only the old one.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 12:32:30 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204241132.3d1a71b5@posting.google.com>o  r LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message news:<gqzx8.8088$d17.330533@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...< > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3125309.htm! >    Mercury News | 04/23/2002 | 3: >    AMD to announce Microsoft support for new chip family >  >    By Therese PolettiI >    Mercury Newsn >     C >   "Advanced Micro Devices, Intel's main rival in the PC processorgG >    business, is expected to announce today that it has gained crucial B >    support from Microsoft for AMD's next-generation chip family, >    code-named Hammer.r >    a  H and thus Microsoft has locked itself onto the x86 platform and thereforeC will not be a factor in any future high end computing platforms ...tF Intel may be forced to produce an AMD X86 clone, but it will bring outF EV8 Itanium eventually and that means VMS will be alone in the driversE seat to dominate the 64 bit high end, only to compete w/linux/hp unix F which means VMS wins hands down!  VMS life beyond 2012 is now ensured!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:10:58 GMTg* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family> Message-ID: <CbFx8.1969$fg.232606@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget7 news:d7791aa1.0204241132.3d1a71b5@posting.google.com... > > LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message5 news:<gqzx8.8088$d17.330533@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...a> > > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3125309.htm" > >    Mercury News | 04/23/2002 |< > >    AMD to announce Microsoft support for new chip family > >i > >    By Therese Polettie > >    Mercury Newse > >oE > >   "Advanced Micro Devices, Intel's main rival in the PC processor2I > >    business, is expected to announce today that it has gained crucialcD > >    support from Microsoft for AMD's next-generation chip family, > >    code-named Hammer.  > >e >eJ > and thus Microsoft has locked itself onto the x86 platform and thereforeE > will not be a factor in any future high end computing platforms ...iH > Intel may be forced to produce an AMD X86 clone, but it will bring outH > EV8 Itanium eventually and that means VMS will be alone in the driversG > seat to dominate the 64 bit high end, only to compete w/linux/hp unixeH > which means VMS wins hands down!  VMS life beyond 2012 is now ensured!  J Bob, you really are an imbicile.  Try for once to understand the following (or shut up until you do):  K 1.  Hammer is a *very* respectable platform.  An 8-chip/16-processor HammersI configuration (after a process shrink and when they go to dual cores on atL chip, as they plan to) will almost certainly beat the daylights out of *any*L 32- or even 64-processor server you can buy today:  only POWER4 and EV7 haveI a clear path toward being able to compete with it, and even they may wellcL require more processors to achieve the same performance (because it looks asD if a single Hammer processor may - especially a few years from now -8 out-perform a single POWER4 or EV7 in the same process).  J 2.  Microsoft has not announced that they will drop support for Itanic, soJ in the unlikely event that high-end Itanic systems ever exist Windows will	 be there.E  K 3.  Intel may well produce a direct competitor to Hammer (the one point youL managed to get right).  K 4.  There is *NO* *NO* *NO* evidence of any kind to suggest that Intel will L *EVER* produce anything like EV8.  They may own the *right* to, and it mightL even be the best processor they'll ever have a chance to produce, but unlessK a) the McKinley/Madison/Montecito Itanics really do tank completely and  b)hI Yamhill (their reported Hammer clone) can't fill the gap and  c) graftinguB the non-core EV7/POWER4 on-chip glue for MP and memory access ontoF (presumably) Chivano doesn't make Itanic viable (and I suspect that itL actually will - just not industry-leading, which EV8 would likely have been)? there won't be anything like an EV8 core (even executing ItanicuF instructions, let alone Alpha instructions) coming out of Santa Clara. Period.y   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 19:26:05 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204241826.197af658@posting.google.com>m  p "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<CbFx8.1969$fg.232606@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo9 > news:d7791aa1.0204241132.3d1a71b5@posting.google.com...o@ > > LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message8 >  news:<gqzx8.8088$d17.330533@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...@ > > > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3125309.htm$ > > >    Mercury News | 04/23/2002 |> > > >    AMD to announce Microsoft support for new chip family > > >m > > >    By Therese Polettio > > >    Mercury News  > > >-G > > >   "Advanced Micro Devices, Intel's main rival in the PC processoreK > > >    business, is expected to announce today that it has gained crucial7F > > >    support from Microsoft for AMD's next-generation chip family, > > >    code-named Hammer.e > > >2 > > L > > and thus Microsoft has locked itself onto the x86 platform and thereforeG > > will not be a factor in any future high end computing platforms ...IJ > > Intel may be forced to produce an AMD X86 clone, but it will bring outJ > > EV8 Itanium eventually and that means VMS will be alone in the driversI > > seat to dominate the 64 bit high end, only to compete w/linux/hp unixeJ > > which means VMS wins hands down!  VMS life beyond 2012 is now ensured! > M > 1.  Hammer is a *very* respectable platform.  An 8-chip/16-processor HammergK > configuration (after a process shrink and when they go to dual cores on afN > chip, as they plan to) will almost certainly beat the daylights out of *any*N > 32- or even 64-processor server you can buy today:  only POWER4 and EV7 haveK > a clear path toward being able to compete with it, and even they may well N > require more processors to achieve the same performance (because it looks asF > if a single Hammer processor may - especially a few years from now -: > out-perform a single POWER4 or EV7 in the same process). > L > 2.  Microsoft has not announced that they will drop support for Itanic, soL > in the unlikely event that high-end Itanic systems ever exist Windows will > be there.0 > M > 3.  Intel may well produce a direct competitor to Hammer (the one point youh > managed to get right). > M > 4.  There is *NO* *NO* *NO* evidence of any kind to suggest that Intel willtN > *EVER* produce anything like EV8.  They may own the *right* to, and it mightN > even be the best processor they'll ever have a chance to produce, but unlessM > a) the McKinley/Madison/Montecito Itanics really do tank completely and  b) K > Yamhill (their reported Hammer clone) can't fill the gap and  c) graftingiD > the non-core EV7/POWER4 on-chip glue for MP and memory access ontoH > (presumably) Chivano doesn't make Itanic viable (and I suspect that itN > actually will - just not industry-leading, which EV8 would likely have been)A > there won't be anything like an EV8 core (even executing Itanic-H > instructions, let alone Alpha instructions) coming out of Santa Clara.	 > Period.< >  > - bill  F you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, thenG Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks ase7 you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:40:54 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FamilyC Message-ID: <aVKx8.170816$GS6.16187008@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>m  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget7 news:d7791aa1.0204241826.197af658@posting.google.com...b7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message : news:<CbFx8.1969$fg.232606@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee; > > news:d7791aa1.0204241132.3d1a71b5@posting.google.com...sB > > > LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message: > >  news:<gqzx8.8088$d17.330533@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...B > > > > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3125309.htm& > > > >    Mercury News | 04/23/2002 |@ > > > >    AMD to announce Microsoft support for new chip family > > > >h > > > >    By Therese Polettie > > > >    Mercury Newse > > > > I > > > >   "Advanced Micro Devices, Intel's main rival in the PC processor E > > > >    business, is expected to announce today that it has gained  crucialiH > > > >    support from Microsoft for AMD's next-generation chip family, > > > >    code-named Hammer.h > > > >b > > >dD > > > and thus Microsoft has locked itself onto the x86 platform and	 thereforeuI > > > will not be a factor in any future high end computing platforms ...eL > > > Intel may be forced to produce an AMD X86 clone, but it will bring outL > > > EV8 Itanium eventually and that means VMS will be alone in the driversK > > > seat to dominate the 64 bit high end, only to compete w/linux/hp unixwL > > > which means VMS wins hands down!  VMS life beyond 2012 is now ensured! > >tH > > 1.  Hammer is a *very* respectable platform.  An 8-chip/16-processor HammerK > > configuration (after a process shrink and when they go to dual cores ono a J > > chip, as they plan to) will almost certainly beat the daylights out of *any*0K > > 32- or even 64-processor server you can buy today:  only POWER4 and EV7  haveH > > a clear path toward being able to compete with it, and even they may wellG > > require more processors to achieve the same performance (because ita looks asH > > if a single Hammer processor may - especially a few years from now -< > > out-perform a single POWER4 or EV7 in the same process). > >lK > > 2.  Microsoft has not announced that they will drop support for Itanic,. soI > > in the unlikely event that high-end Itanic systems ever exist Windowss will
 > > be there.a > >.K > > 3.  Intel may well produce a direct competitor to Hammer (the one point  youl > > managed to get right). > >eJ > > 4.  There is *NO* *NO* *NO* evidence of any kind to suggest that Intel willJ > > *EVER* produce anything like EV8.  They may own the *right* to, and it mightaI > > even be the best processor they'll ever have a chance to produce, butt unlessK > > a) the McKinley/Madison/Montecito Itanics really do tank completely ande b)D > > Yamhill (their reported Hammer clone) can't fill the gap and  c) graftingF > > the non-core EV7/POWER4 on-chip glue for MP and memory access ontoJ > > (presumably) Chivano doesn't make Itanic viable (and I suspect that itJ > > actually will - just not industry-leading, which EV8 would likely have been)nC > > there won't be anything like an EV8 core (even executing Itanic J > > instructions, let alone Alpha instructions) coming out of Santa Clara. > > Period.m > >c
 > > - bill >eH > you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, thenI > Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks ase9 > you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative!o  H Bob, just stop trying to use whatever brain you may have to support yourE inane preconceptions, and concentrate on understanding what you read.   G Intel can in all probability create a Hammer clone that will adequately J compete with Hammer:  they've certainly been able to do so with IA32.  TheL only question is whether neither it nor Hammer will be adequate for the highH end:  if they are, end of discussion (they don't need Itanic *or* Alpha,E because they'll have their own Hammer clone); if for some reason theyhG aren't, then they only need something that will be able to compete withcI whatever else is out there - which seems to mean POWER4 and SPARC at thissK point (SPARC III being a lot more respectable than earlier SPARCs, at least 	 for now).   G When Intel has had the time to attach MP and memory on-chip glue to thesJ McKinley/Madison/Montecito core, that product (assume for now it's ChivanoI in 2005) will likely be able to compete with the POWER and SPARC products-L available in the same time frame.  Now, if their market muscle is sufficientG to keep Itanic afloat in the interim, despite its mediocrity, then when;J Chivano comes along and puts them on closer-to-equal footing they'll be in$ OK shape - again, no need for Alpha.  F So, as I already explained once above, the only conditions under which4 something Alpha-like has any chance of appearing are  I 1.  McKinley/Madison/Montecito tank so completely that it looks like even A the Chivano on-chip glue won't make the platform acceptable *and*A  I 2.  Yamhill can't fill the resulting gap adequately (and 'adequately' may L not require that it reach the extreme high end anyway:  niche markets aren't% Intel's bread and butter, volume is).c  I There just isn't any likely scenario where Intel would need Alpha (though D there was a *very* believable scenario where Compaq could have takenJ advantage of Alpha to compete in the mid-range and up).  And there is *no*I believable scenario in which, even in the unlikely event that Intel *did*oJ decide it needed to create something Alpha-like, they could get it out the door before 2006.R  J Now, whether you understand the above or not, please do us all a favor andD shut up about EV8:  this is a subject you clearly do not, and to all> appearances will not, have anything sensible to contribute to.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:12:33 -04002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>1B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family, Message-ID: <3CC7903E.BD91D257@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote: H > you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, thenI > Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks as/9 > you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative!v  N EV8 is dead. They stopped working on it almost a year ago when Compaq murderedM the chip. Every month that passes after Alpha's burrial without any EV8 work,eE will delay any EV8 hardware should Intel ever decide to dump IA64 andoL resurrect Alpha. Intel would have to become very desperate for it to abandonN IA64 and then have nothing for a couple of years until it could spit out brand new Alphas.s    K Granted,  Intel didn't have any competition from Alpha because Alpha wasn'trN marketed, but its 8086 has never really been the fastest chip in the world and# yet is has been the market leader. o  C When Palmer officially blessed Intel's theft of Alpha ideas for its D 8086-Pentium, did it make the 8086 suddently become an Alpha ?  NO.   I Capellas simply gave Intel permission to inspire itself again from Alpha.dI Whether that inspiration will benefit the 8086 or IA64, one can't say foraL sure. But just as the first batch of Alpha ideas didn't change the 8086 intoK an Alpha, this second batch of inspiration won't change either the 8086 norn IA64 into an Alpha.e  I EV8 was an implementation of ALPHA. It is rather worthless for other chip0 architectures. n    N Unless the Digital engineers were sold as slaves to Intel, there is no tellingK how many will stay with Intel. (or how long they will stay).   Should InteltM decide to revive Alpha, it would take a long time to rebuild the team and get7  EV8 up and running as a project.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:59:59 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e' Subject: Re: Best DIGITAL product ever?uH Message-ID: <39Ex8.56905$VLV.50595@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   COLT 45. .  .r Capellas On Line
 Terminator   For the good of the company.    > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3CC0863F.F4550AC7@firstdbasource.com... > "Bart Z. Lederman" wrote:' > >v4 > > In article <3CBAD98A.7CB5570C@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik2 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > >2H > > >Someone sad that DTR-11 was the most overlayed image to ever run onE > > >the PDP/RSX. I used it on a 11/84 to produce a number of reports78 > > >from mostly sequentional files. Realy nice product. > >.< > > There were others that would be good candidates for this= > > category: the Task Builder would probably be in the lead,l7 > > and some of the error log formatting utilities were  > > pretty complex as well.n > >e> > > I seem to recall a presentation at a DECUS symposium where= > > the PDP-11 people said that building the Task Builder wasI@ > > itself one of the best stress tests of the operating system. > >n > > --, > >  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only > > < > >  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission< > >  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing > >  list of any kind. > >e9 > >  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 9 > >  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.l >,G > And we must not forget Rdb.  Probably the most stable, SQL compliant, G > scalable, reliable database engine ever built and it still rocks event, > though it lives on in the Oracle world.!!! >w > --
 > Regards, >09 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comd > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)n > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)N >C   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:03:51 GMT>1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e' Subject: Re: Best DIGITAL product ever?@; Message-ID: <HcEx8.43511$%s3.18066148@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:39Ex8.56905$VLV.50595@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...	 > COLT 45l > .2 > .h
 > Capellas > On > Line > Terminator >  > For the good of the company.  D Ironically or otherwise, IBM made Colt .45s (actually Model 1911 .458 automatic pistols) for the US Govt. during World War II.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:53:15 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Best DIGITAL product ever?nH Message-ID: <fPFx8.58880$VLV.53018@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L I wonder if they made the 'hammers' on the same line as punch card machines.   Speaking of IBM during WWII,; http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1500%26a=25086,00.asp   J And as the political spectrum in the US continues its rightward drift, canK anybody really believe that a national identity card, or microchip implants : in people's necks (same as dogs and cats) are good things?      < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 news:HcEx8.43511$%s3.18066148@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...h >u0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:39Ex8.56905$VLV.50595@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > COLT 45n > > .h > > .  > > Capellas > > On > > Line > > Terminator > >l  > > For the good of the company. > F > Ironically or otherwise, IBM made Colt .45s (actually Model 1911 .45: > automatic pistols) for the US Govt. during World War II. >i >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:45:58 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e' Subject: Re: Best DIGITAL product ever?w' Message-ID: <3CC770B6.FE093C56@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:r > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:39Ex8.56905$VLV.50595@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > COLT 45  > > .e > > .E > > Capellas > > On > > Line > > Terminator > >   > > For the good of the company. > F > Ironically or otherwise, IBM made Colt .45s (actually Model 1911 .45: > automatic pistols) for the US Govt. during World War II.  ) Well, they meant "business", didn't they?b   -- e David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 15:31:47 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Cache Performance= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204241431.12066e41@posting.google.com>t  m "Bill Clark" <bclark@lrgh.org> wrote in message news:<A7Cx8.77882$ro5.6686945@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...i > greetingse > ; >  you are correct, the problem was not 'RAXCo' per se. buto; >  as you point out, on a production system i didn't really-9 >  have the luxury of making too fine a distinction - and 9 >  since VMS and the third party stuff are 'given', RAXCoT
 >  had to go.o= >  and yes i agree - the performance increase was noticeable,8 >  and sorely missed ! > < >  i was not trying to impugn Perfect Cacher in my messages;9 >  i simply didn't mean to go into too much detail either 3 >  way since that was not the goal of the exercise.g > : >  i was able to work with a veryfine VMS type from RAXCo,8 >  one 'Jim Hibbetts' by name, who did in fact state the: >  problem you mentioned : the AST evidence pointed to the= >  probability that the application software could not handle3+ >  the speed of the I/O's. what a world....  >  >  thanks for your responses...p >  > an > bclark@lrgh.org 1 > "Bill Clark" <bclark@lrgh.org> wrote in messageN> > news:0VUw8.151859$K5.12832746@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
 > > greetingscC > >     have been troubled by cache performance, and have tried twog >  third-partyD > >     replacements. 1 - RAXCO Cacher was very fast but caused some > > applicationsM > >     to 'cease',  2 - IOXpress was not appreciably faster than the OPENVms8
 > > native > >     product. > >nM > >     any general opinions or suggestions on improving cache performance oneM > >     an Alpha 4100 server, OpenvVMS 7.1-2, 2.5 G memory, running 'routine'nJ > >     data-processing applications (nothing fancy, no orbital mechanics, > > graphics, etc).  > >t > >     thanks > >u > > bclark@lrgh.org  > >i  7 nothing like perfectcache!  you will really miss it ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:06:05 -0400g2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: DEC 3000/400 VMS 6.2 problem K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2404022106050001@1cust182.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   > In article <aa6pja$6p6g$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:    K >While I loved the DEC3000 (since it was the first Alpha WS, and I played asL >small role in getting the graphics working on it) - I've just gotten rid of7 >(well, given it to Robert, who is a DEC3000 nut) mine.W  I And who stopped by my cube seeking a DEC 3000 just this afternoon?  Hmm. t I can _almost_ remember.... :-)   G One advantage of this family is that folks are always willing to donate  spare parts.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:27:06 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: DSSI Interconnect9 Message-ID: <_NCx8.21$jx5.568374@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>a  d In article <d0141774.0204240239.57e4be43@posting.google.com>, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes:  D :My question is: does this scenario provide for direct access to all3 :disks in both storage units by both Alpha systems?l  F   Yes, assuming a functional DSSI bus and functional DSSI controllers.  B   DSSI functions both as a cluster communications bus -- except inB   the specific case of KFQSA controllers -- and a cluster storage C   bus.  The former means host-to-host communications are possible,  D   and the latter indicates multi-host host-to-storage is possible.    D   The KFQSA Q-bus to DSSI is limited to storage access.  Most (all?)C   other DSSI controllers provide communications and storage access..  E   Contrast DSSI with SCSI: SCSI is not a cluster communications bus, o   but is a storage bus.t    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:34:27 +053015 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>  Subject: EDT or EVEc/ Message-ID: <uce00t53bua477@corp.supernews.com>3   HiF     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better7 editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.@   Thanks Sandeep.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:05:43 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: EDT or EVE 0 Message-ID: <bmDx8.303$W3.10890@typhoon.bart.nl>  A If you are new to VMS, start with EVE because it is based on TPU.tG TPU allows you to write your own routines for it, so it may behave more  in line with what you're doing.uK Once you're used to KED, err, EDIT and have learned all the strange numerict- keypad functions then there's no way back :-)t    > Sandeep Yelwatkar <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message) news:uce00t53bua477@corp.supernews.com...  > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.f >u > Thanks	 > Sandeep  >t >i >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:21:59 -0400o1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: EDT or EVEd2 Message-ID: <3CC705D6.C3A7FCED@firstdbasource.com>   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: >  > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.i >  > Thanks	 > Sandeepa  4 I use eve with the edt key pad.  This is what I use:  > $define eve$init sys$login:eve$init.eve !put this in login.com5 $create sys$login:eve$init.eve    !execute only once.h set key edtu set right margin 132 $e   cool things:B multiple windows (I have had as many as 10 files open... great for' working with a lot of seperate modules.,6 execute dcl without exiting (great for testing code...4 the learn command ... learn this it is really great. other neat features. -- e Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coms Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)o 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:24:26 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: EDT or EVEo, Message-ID: <3CC71472.94FFD106@videotron.ca>   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: >  > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.g  I There are questions that are just not asked around here. You will spark aa) religious debate of biblical proportions.K   I use EVE/TPU.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:21:52 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>f Subject: Re: EDT or EVE7' Message-ID: <3CC713E0.BA19C6BF@Free.fr>c  O If you are new to VMS, start with EDT because it is based on evidence, easinesst# (sp?) and obviousliness (re-sp? :-)rL EVE/TPU allows you to write nothing unless you have time to waste instead of. doing editing, that EDT is precisely aimed at.G Once you're used to EDT and have learned all the genious numeric keypade@ functions then there's no way to do better, faster and easier...   :-)    Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: >  > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion., >  > Thanks	 > Sandeepw   D. -- iH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS Expertise   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:01:15 -0400(- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y Subject: Re: EDT or EVE , Message-ID: <3CC71D11.F9382F0C@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > Q > If you are new to VMS, start with EDT because it is based on evidence, easinessW% > (sp?) and obviousliness (re-sp? :-)I  P Sacrilege ! How dare you suggest EDT is better than EVE ???? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   EDT is good for:  N Editing very large files (it only keeps in memory the part of the file you are< looking at, whereas EVE/TPU wants to read the whole file in)  H EDT is also superiior to EVE when trying to do global changes of the TAB: character. EVE is extremely slow for that for some reason.  J EDT is also easier to insert special control characters. EVE/TPU can do itL with <CTRL-V>, but EDT does allow you to type in its numeric value, allowing any character to be entered. o  Y With TPU, you have to press DO to get to COMMAND prompt, and TPU COPY_TEXT(ASCII(value));s  F However, TPU does offer much greater power for fancy editing than EDT.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:11:39 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i Subject: Re: EDT or EVEu, Message-ID: <3CC71F80.3D4EC70D@videotron.ca>  L How come Larry Kilgallen hasn't chimed in yet with his missionary mission to- convert users to TECO ??? ;-) :-) :-) :-) :-)k   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 15:22:13 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: EDT or EVEp= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204241422.69c5e6bb@posting.google.com>i  l "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message news:<uce00t53bua477@corp.supernews.com>... > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.u >  > Thanks	 > Sandeepu  E they both have their strenghts ... edt is great for program edits but D has a 255 record limitation, anything beyond that gets truncated ...A I like to combine the best of the two by using edt as the default.? editor inside of eve ... that way you can take advantage of thepB features of both while overcoming the 255 record limit edt has ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:19:17 +0200p From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: EDT or EVE & Message-ID: <3CC72F65.6030601@home.nl>   Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.  >  > Thanks	 > Sandeep  >  >  >   * Both editors have their own strong points.  E EDT will keep the original file type specifications (with sequential dI files), eve will always write a variable record file. If you have a file gF with fixed record lengths, EDT will write the same file type. In fact K you can't save the file if the edited records don't have the proper length.   D EDT gives a better view on non-printable characters in a file, that B makes it easier to edit files with those characters. It will show H something like <XOT> and <ESC> for such non-printable characters, where : EVE will only have a general non-printable character sign.  G EDT will only have a window on the file instead of buffering the whole t file like with EVE.e  G EVE is much more configurable, in fact there is whole manual about how  : to do that. LSE, EDIT/ACL and so on, are all based on EVE.  9 EVE can handle longer lines, EDT stops at 255 characters.   H There are much more differences, but these are a few that really matter    in my opinion.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 20:09:42 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: EDT or EVEh= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0204241909.727868e5@posting.google.com>a  L Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3CC72F65.6030601@home.nl>... > Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote: > > HiJ > >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better; > > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.- [snip], > Both editors have their own strong points. > G > EDT will keep the original file type specifications (with sequential dK > files), eve will always write a variable record file. If you have a file mH > with fixed record lengths, EDT will write the same file type. In fact M > you can't save the file if the edited records don't have the proper length.9 > F > EDT gives a better view on non-printable characters in a file, that D > makes it easier to edit files with those characters. It will show J > something like <XOT> and <ESC> for such non-printable characters, where < > EVE will only have a general non-printable character sign.    B Well, for some non-printable characters EVE will give you two veryD tiny letters along a diagonal, like LF for linefeed, CR for carriageA return, etc.; but it will give just a backwards question mark foreD control-A, control-B, etc. EDT will show ^A, ^B, etc., for the same.C The EVE non-printable display characters take up only one charactersF cell each which keeps columns lined up; the EDT equivalents take up 2,@ 3, or 4 character cells each as needed, but EDT treats each as a single character, as it should.t    I > EDT will only have a window on the file instead of buffering the whole   > file like with EVE.e    D EDT won't fill up your pagefile and thereby hang the system when youB edit a very large file. EVE will. And EVE will take a long time toD load a large file before you can begin editing. EDT will load only aF small part of the file initially and you can begin editing right away.  C You can have multiple buffers in EDT but you can only work with andeF display one at a time. But you can switch among them and cut and paste among them.o  C Writing the paste buffer to a file is a breeze in EDT: Control/Z toN1 the asterisk prompt, then WRITE file.typ =PASTE!.,  F EDT offers an interesting command line language. One thing I esp. like, is its ALL command. At the *-prompt, you can   *TYPE ALL 'STRING'  < and it displays all occurrences of 'STRING'. You can also do   *DEL ALL 'STRING's  C which deletes all lines that contain 'STRING'. You can also combine.' ALL with COPY and maybe other commands.n  @ You can also use EDT's "nokeypad commands" to re-define old keysE and/or define new keys. You can also define keys in EDT by acting outiD the action, but it doesn't show you the actual action like EVE does.  F You can also search for strings containing end-of-line characters withC EDT by pressing pf1; pf3; type the string, if any; Return; type theD< rest of the string, if any; pf3. And that works with replace: operations also. I don't know if you can do that with EVE.    I > EVE is much more configurable, in fact there is whole manual about how c< > to do that. LSE, EDIT/ACL and so on, are all based on EVE.  u  C Yes, you can waste lots of time configuring EVE. And EDIT/ACL is antE interesting combination of EVE and EDT, it displays like EVE, but the  keys work like EDT (IIRC)!    ; > EVE can handle longer lines, EDT stops at 255 characters.r    D Here, EDT can do SET NOTRUNCATE which wraps long lines on the screenD with the extra lines prepended by a diamond character. EVE cannot doD that. I once would have found that really useful for some files with, records longer than 255 characters. Oh well.   [one quoted sentence snipped]o  A EDT only gives you 22 lines (IIRC) of the file on the screen at a D time. EVE can fill the screen with as many lines as is takes to fill the screen from top to bottom.  1 EVE has the very cool BOX cut and paste feature. :  E EVE offers overstrike mode and insert mode. EDT has only insert mode.R  = I find cursor motion slightly spastic in EVE. Not so in EDT. i  F In EVE repeated "find next" commands don't put the found string on theE same part of the screen with each successive press of the key -- veryeB annoying; with EDT the successive found strings appear on the same@ line (once scrolling is needed to keep the cursor in its allowedC region, anyway). But EVE highlights the found string; EDT does not.1  A EVE has wildcard search capabilities. Very cool if you need it. Ie
 rarely do.  D I use EDT most of the time, and I use EVE only when I need something it can do that EDT can't.   D Try both. Then use the one you prefer unless you need a feature that the other has.   Long live EDT!!!   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman0 afeldman at gfigroup dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:05:07 +02004- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>" Subject: Re: EDT or EVEi' Message-ID: <3CC78073.908D88CC@Free.fr>i  P Also, EDT does not allow records more than 255 char to be read, that EVE allows,S and EVE allows multiple buffers windows, EDT can display only one buffer at a time.l   D.   JF Mezei wrote:  >  ../..fH > However, TPU does offer much greater power for fancy editing than EDT.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:55:53 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)w Subject: Re: EDT or EVEe9 Message-ID: <d7Lx8.9635$d17.421331@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   4 Sandeep Yelwatkar (Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com) wrote: : HiH :     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 : editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.s :  : Thanks	 : Sandeepm : A What operating systems/editors are you already comfortable with ?lA If *nix, then there are versions of 'vi' available for VMS. Using B a familiar editor in a strange operating system will let you focus on that operating system."  F I use Charles Sandmann's EDT-like ED editor on VMS, *nix, and Windows C (DOS box) because I've been primarily a VMS person since the 1980s.d For more info on ED, see:h     http://clio.rice.edu/r  D ED is free, and comes with the source. It includes an ftp client for? editing files across a TCP/IP network, as well as a newsreader.r    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailo   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 22:51:50 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EDT or EVEc3 Message-ID: <WwARV3Q593aa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0204241909.727868e5@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:N > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3CC72F65.6030601@home.nl>... >> Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote:r >> > HieK >> >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better2< >> > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion. > [snip]- >> Both editors have their own strong points.n >> @H >> EDT will keep the original file type specifications (with sequential L >> files), eve will always write a variable record file. If you have a file I >> with fixed record lengths, EDT will write the same file type. In fact 0N >> you can't save the file if the edited records don't have the proper length. >>  G >> EDT gives a better view on non-printable characters in a file, that iE >> makes it easier to edit files with those characters. It will show -K >> something like <XOT> and <ESC> for such non-printable characters, where l= >> EVE will only have a general non-printable character sign.t >  > D > Well, for some non-printable characters EVE will give you two veryF > tiny letters along a diagonal, like LF for linefeed, CR for carriageC > return, etc.; but it will give just a backwards question mark foreF > control-A, control-B, etc. EDT will show ^A, ^B, etc., for the same.E > The EVE non-printable display characters take up only one character.H > cell each which keeps columns lined up; the EDT equivalents take up 2,B > 3, or 4 character cells each as needed, but EDT treats each as a! > single character, as it should.  >  > J >> EDT will only have a window on the file instead of buffering the whole  >> file like with EVE. >  > F > EDT won't fill up your pagefile and thereby hang the system when youD > edit a very large file. EVE will. And EVE will take a long time toF > load a large file before you can begin editing. EDT will load only aH > small part of the file initially and you can begin editing right away. > E > You can have multiple buffers in EDT but you can only work with and H > display one at a time. But you can switch among them and cut and paste
 > among them.- > E > Writing the paste buffer to a file is a breeze in EDT: Control/Z to#3 > the asterisk prompt, then WRITE file.typ =PASTE!.  > H > EDT offers an interesting command line language. One thing I esp. like. > is its ALL command. At the *-prompt, you can >  > *TYPE ALL 'STRING' > > > and it displays all occurrences of 'STRING'. You can also do >  > *DEL ALL 'STRING'r > E > which deletes all lines that contain 'STRING'. You can also combinee) > ALL with COPY and maybe other commands.e > B > You can also use EDT's "nokeypad commands" to re-define old keysG > and/or define new keys. You can also define keys in EDT by acting out F > the action, but it doesn't show you the actual action like EVE does. > H > You can also search for strings containing end-of-line characters withE > EDT by pressing pf1; pf3; type the string, if any; Return; type the > > rest of the string, if any; pf3. And that works with replace< > operations also. I don't know if you can do that with EVE. >  > J >> EVE is much more configurable, in fact there is whole manual about how = >> to do that. LSE, EDIT/ACL and so on, are all based on EVE.  >  t > E > Yes, you can waste lots of time configuring EVE. And EDIT/ACL is aneG > interesting combination of EVE and EDT, it displays like EVE, but the2 > keys work like EDT (IIRC)! >  > < >> EVE can handle longer lines, EDT stops at 255 characters. >  > F > Here, EDT can do SET NOTRUNCATE which wraps long lines on the screenF > with the extra lines prepended by a diamond character. EVE cannot doF > that. I once would have found that really useful for some files with. > records longer than 255 characters. Oh well. >  > [one quoted sentence snipped]n > C > EDT only gives you 22 lines (IIRC) of the file on the screen at aiF > time. EVE can fill the screen with as many lines as is takes to fill  > the screen from top to bottom. > 3 > EVE has the very cool BOX cut and paste feature.   > G > EVE offers overstrike mode and insert mode. EDT has only insert mode.f > ? > I find cursor motion slightly spastic in EVE. Not so in EDT. a > H > In EVE repeated "find next" commands don't put the found string on theG > same part of the screen with each successive press of the key -- verycD > annoying; with EDT the successive found strings appear on the sameB > line (once scrolling is needed to keep the cursor in its allowedE > region, anyway). But EVE highlights the found string; EDT does not.E > C > EVE has wildcard search capabilities. Very cool if you need it. It > rarely do. > F > I use EDT most of the time, and I use EVE only when I need something > it can do that EDT can't.u > F > Try both. Then use the one you prefer unless you need a feature that > the other has. >  > Long live EDT!!! >   > 	Well.. we need Ken Fairfield to help level the playing field, 	but I'll give it a shot.e  : 	With EVE, it is a simple matter of getting to the command
 	line and:   	Command: set keypad edt     	best of both worlds.E  A 	I have so many customizations picked up over the years, I forget  	a nice percentage.c  ; 	The greatest strength of EVE is learn sequence - control-ko? 	from that you can create macros on the fly that stifle most of < 	the competition (except EMACS of course), that really isn't 	an extension.  @ 	An extension that I use quite often is to "select" a region and@ 	write that region to a file to use that as a start or a portion5 	of another file (yes sometimes this is just as easy:t  2 	Command:  do search file.dat/win=30 target_string  = 	and cut and paste from the DCL buffer)  but in the case justd 	described:-    	Command:  write select temp.com  ? 	Another extension in use quite often is "Gold-=".  Gold equalsEA 	splits the window "Gold-up or down arrow" goes into the oppositetD 	window.  "Gold-1" reverts back to a single window.  "Gold->" shiftsC 	to the right 8 columns, Gold-t changes all tabs to spaces and back-@ 	in the day when doing C programming used to use Gold-{ to matchD 	{.  I understand LSE has a number of cool features that are similar2 	to the Gold-{ for each language.  Hadn't used it.  H 	I recommend EVE as you can customize using TPU* to suit your tastes andB 	locate many extensions via groups.google.com searching vmsnet.tpu6 	and/or comp.os.vms OR contacting the orignal authors.   				Rob?    O * TPU = Text Processing Utility [Language] is in itself a neat little language.nK Very Pascal like.  Procedures, variables, no pointers.  A refreshing littlea	 language.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 16:22:32 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w Subject: Re: EDT or EVE (TECO!) 3 Message-ID: <538etb7C7mzw@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  g In article <uce00t53bua477@corp.supernews.com>, "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> writes:e > HiH >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better9 > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.    TECO.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:01:59 -0700a& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!, Message-ID: <3CC70F37.4050309@gregcagle.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:L% > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"h? > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message " > news:3CC6B616.8060107@sun.com... >  > <snip> > @ >>Incedentally Sun has better throughput and per CPU performanceC >>on the three other large commercial benchmarks you have published@? >>for the GS, SAP, Oracle Apps and TPC-H. Perhaps thats why youc  >>only want to talk about TPC-C. >  > J > Andrew, when you make statements such as the one above, would you pleaseL > provide links to supporting information. I'm sure there are a lot of us in8 > this newsgroup who would be interested in the numbers.  ( Yes - let's have some real data, Andrew.   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:45:20 -0400i; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer even says Alpha in Itanium in 2005!n$ Message-ID: <3cc70be1$1@news.si.com>  3 >Don't get too excited.  As this author points out:2 >:( >http://www.theinquirer.net/23040209.htm  I Someone ought to teach Richard Getz English.  "...hear in the States..."?e "...the matter there is mute."?  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventi< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:48:07 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e< Subject: Re: IONA Application Server / OpenVMS Press Release' Message-ID: <3CC77136.8CEF20BE@fsi.net>c   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > "Main, Kerry" wrote:F > > JavaOnesm Conference 2002 - San Francisco, CA. - March 27, 2002 --D > > IONA, the leading e-Business Platform provider for Web ServicesG > > Integration (NASDAQ: IONA), today announced the availability of theeH > > Orbix E2A Application Server Platform on Compaq's OpenVMS operatingH > > system. IONA's Orbix E2A Application Server Platform offers Compaq'sD > > OpenVMS customers a J2EE-compliant and Web services-architectedH > > platform for application and e- Business infrastructure development. > * > Now we just need a hobbyist version !!!!  @ ...or an affordable version for the less pecunious "enterprise".   -- 2 David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems( http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:55:36 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> C Subject: LA210 + KB (was Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse)r' Message-ID: <3CC772F8.E7BD7205@fsi.net>o  G I used to look longingly at what should have been a KB jack on the back H of the LA210's. I always thought they should have been the follow-ons to the LA100's and LA34's.w   *SIGH*   -- b David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:58:21 GMTt. From: "M. J. Jerabek" <multivac@jitterati.org>: Subject: Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated@ Message-ID: <1pJx8.1088$RL.518170828@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>   Hunter,c  ? I use the same Outlook Express to read email through the IUPOP3r@ POP3 service. I have read the same mail sent to two different MXF servers, one with 5.2 and the other (at home) running 4.2. I have alsoE checked the mail in VMS mail and it get's truncated before it is readr by POP3 from VMS mail.  A Hey! Maybe I can get a discount on MX 5.2 for home because I havenD a license at work. A MX hobbiest license, just like the VMS program.	 Yeah! 8-}n  G I will check the source we built from and let you know if the patch you 1 included is in there. Thanks again for your help.    Mike Jerabek multivac@jitterati.org  : "Hunter Goatley" <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote in message* news:3cc6cfc3.11218080@news.process.com...L > On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:29:39 GMT, "M. J. Jerabek" <multivac@jitterati.org> > wrote: >i
 > >Hunter, > >mK > >A friend of mine re-built V4.2 with all of the "source" patches includedm inF > >that directory. We did it to get the anti-relay code, and as a side issue,L > >update to a newer version of netlib. We still get truncated test lines inL > >the body of email, so the fix you mentioned is not in the source patches.L > >Any chance you still have the "rediscovered" source patch? If not, thanks > >for trying. > >pD > It should be there.  You can verify it by looking for this code in > [MX.LOCAL]DELIVER.B32: >mL >             WHILE $GET (RAB=RAB2) DO                    !Now copy the rest ofK >                 BEGIN                                   !... the message. ; >                 RAB [RAB$W_RSZ] = MIN (.RAB2 [RAB$W_RSZ],C MAIL_HDR$C_MAX_SIZE);m >sF > MAIL_HDR$C_MAX_SIZE should be defined earlier in that file as 65535. >/C > That *should* be the only place MX Local would truncate messages.h MessagesI > sent via VMS Mail with longer lines may still get truncated by VMS MailaD > itself.  But incoming messages delivered to VMS Mail should not be	 truncated  > by MX with the code above. >tJ > (And are you sure that MX is truncating them and not whatever is looking > at the messages?)k >  > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/i: > goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/> > New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:28:18 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> H Subject: Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer), Message-ID: <3CC6F941.5F99A930@videotron.ca>   Jan Ingvoldstad wrote:E > This is not a problem in MS Word, either.  MS Word has styles, veryc5 > similar in function to the styles of e.g. PageMakerf  K The problem is that many people start large documents without planning suchoH styles and end up with a monster, unmanageable document that looks ok on< screen, but when you try to make a change, it is a disaster.  L Having helped translators deal with such documents, they are an extremly bigL pain. They get some poorly structure document in english, and when they wantG to replace text in tables, paragraphs etc, they find out that it messesEK everything up (hint: don't use the space bar to align text, which many do).u  J Interestingly, I had to argue with the translators whom I was helping dealI with a huge last minute document that taking the time to set styles wouldaL greatly help their cause. Initially, they did not see the value of my takingI the time to set standard styles they could then apply to paragraphs. TheydI didn't know how by having all paragraphs if the same style, you could fit M greater text (in french) by simply changing the spaces between paragraps by aE	 tiny bit.   K markup language forces you to use styles, so the mistake of  building largee( documents without styles doesn't happen.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:30:32 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0H Subject: Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer), Message-ID: <3CC6F9C7.81B15BDC@videotron.ca>  I Oh, and another thing: they didn't know about the ability of pagemaker toaN build table of contents automatically. I set it up for them with all the rightL styles, and creating a "title" style that would automatically be included in the table of contents.  F Had to argue much over this, but in the morning, when a change came inK requiring a new page to be added, they realised the value of this since theuJ table fo contents with automated page numbers was generated automatically,L saving them much time. (the folks in toronto handling the english had had to" renumber the whole TOC mannually).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:00:27 +0200s& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>H Subject: Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)$ Message-ID: <3CC7552B.41C6@c-lab.de>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jan Ingvoldstad wrote:G > > This is not a problem in MS Word, either.  MS Word has styles, very 7 > > similar in function to the styles of e.g. PageMakerx >   E But you are not required to use them, and... how long did it take for13 you to actually find out how to use them correctly?i  M > The problem is that many people start large documents without planning such J > styles and end up with a monster, unmanageable document that looks ok on> > screen, but when you try to make a change, it is a disaster. >   @ Yes, because .. see above. "Hell, it's so much point'n click andA WYSIWYG, they don't even have a tutorial, not to mention a manual  anymore..."p  F Case in point some years ago in European project: One partner insistedG in using Word (Word 6.0, I think). We were somewhat used to Framemaker,5E and absolutely afraid of having to mess around with "da 'Doze". There H was a longer argument, which we lost of course (developers as we are, weE always have to pamper the end users...), among others by him claimingO> that he will provide the necessary .dot files in order to have consistent style template.  H Needless to say that this never happened. Even more needless to say thatE the first multi-partner documents ended up with 4-5 sets of differentsF document styles, in french, finnish, german and english. Sometimes theE fonts were different from paragraph to paragraph, and the size of the F enumeration numbers and bullets were even changing in the enumerations proper.   E OTOH, it is accepted that using LaTeX or *roff with Memorandum MacrosrH without reading at least some introductory text, if not even the LamportF book or a newer guide, is nonsense. Still, ask people that shove theirE Word in your mouth about a course, a tutorial or even a manual. Blanka stare...  N > Having helped translators deal with such documents, they are an extremly bigN > pain. They get some poorly structure document in english, and when they wantI > to replace text in tables, paragraphs etc, they find out that it messestM > everything up (hint: don't use the space bar to align text, which many do).- >   D See above: If you don't know how to, you take the hammer method. AndE those who have messed around with format templates or styles in Word,cE are probably suprised that Word rather suggest to change the template F according to the selected text than vice versa. This tells everything.    TheyfK > didn't know how by having all paragraphs if the same style, you could fitgO > greater text (in french) by simply changing the spaces between paragraps by an > tiny bit.k > F Sometimes I wonder what 'professional' really means. They are supposedG to use editors and write prosa for a living, rather than us, right? Howg4 comes that we have to teach them to use THEIR tools?  M > markup language forces you to use styles, so the mistake of  building largem* > documents without styles doesn't happen.  D Exactly. At some point I really would like to force everybody to useH LaTeX 2e in the next European project. If it were not for the problem ofC adding pictures/diagrams in (La)TeX, perhaps I might get a majoritys	 sometime.d   -- e* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:34:03 +0200o& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>H Subject: Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)$ Message-ID: <3CC75D0B.167E@c-lab.de>   Alan E. Feldman wrote: > ~ > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KGX0SST4AW8Y6CT5@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...  H > > > Also, most PC users probably couldn't handle something like LaTeX. > >f > > No comment.  > >rG > > On the other hand, it's something all secretaries should be able to K > > handle.  LaTeX guru Patrick Daly boasts that EVERYONE at his Max Planck 5 > > Institute, including the secretaries, uses LaTeX.  >  > Fascinating. >   G In '88 or '89, one of the researchers at the univ. chair where I workedeG on my diploma worked for some time at Bellcore, and told the same thingwA about secretaries, only with troff and -mm (Bellcore's memorandumt; macros). Nice to hear that still something similar is used.C     --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:24:27 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla & Message-ID: <3CC7147B.4070401@home.nl>   Tom Linden wrote:s >  >>  -----Original Message-----= >>  From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam] ) >>  Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:18 PMr >>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% >>  Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla  >> >>B >>  In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPHEMAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ >>  Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:F >>  :Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXP >>  :iH >>  :Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far fromJ >>  :it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not useable.  Upon1 >>  :launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  >>I >>    Netscape 3.03 is so ancient, it nicely avoids many of the obnoxiouseG >>    new problems, um, features of the newer web browsers.  That said,sJ >>    there are a number of holes in the Javascript, and the HTML standard >>    is ancient.n >>& >>  :Mozilla not even worth reviewing. >>G >>    Mozilla works nicely if you have sufficient memory and processor.nG >>    (Given that it is largely based on Java, this is not a surprise.)oG >>    If you don't have circa 256 MB (or more) and an EV56 (or better),sE >>    then Mozilla and CWSB are unfortunately rather poor choices for E >>    daily use -- Mozilla and CWSB (and Java) are significantly more A >>    resource-intensive than were previous generations of tools.  >>> >>  :I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port >>  there browser. >>L >>    Empirical evidence indicates the Opera folks do not answer their mail.? >>    (I also don't have buckets of money to throw into this orr >>  other portingi >>    projects, however.)u >  > L > I know we have discussed this before, but I think that IE6 is an excellentJ > browser, and Opera is even better.  Now Opera has been ported to systemsJ > that have far less presence than VMS, like BeOS, Mac, OS/2, QNX, Symbian8 > Linux, Solaris and of course Windows.  So why not VMS? > I > On another note, I think the ubiquitous use of explorer in Windows is aoD > big forward leap,  not going to totally replace DCL or Bash, but aK > marvelous tool.  I am sure you and your colleagues have looked into this,h > butII > probably dismissed cause all you had to use was Mozilla.  Can't be thatdJ > difficult or costly to write one from scratch if you can't buy one, likeJ > Opera.  My point is that a browser is more than a desktop nicety for theH > internet explorer (no pun intended)  it is an interface to a computing > environment,K > and as heretical as it may sound to this group, in my view, Microsoft haslK > definitely done something right, and I think the have set a new standard,e > like > it or not. >  >  >  >  > 4 >>   ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>! >>  -----------------------------r7 >>        For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --- >  > www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal% > opinion --------------------------- N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >   0 I think we can come to the following conclusion:  F If your alpha is not to ancient, if you have a fairly decent graphics D adapter, if you have at least 256 MB memory, if you have tuned your H system and DecWindows a bit, THEN Mozilla is a very usable browser (and I the only modern browser there is on VMS). A few more helper applications e would be nice though.S  H You like IE6 and Opera more, and that's ok. I personnaly dislike any M$ F stuff, if only for the brand name. Ever since a DIR command on MS-Dos I gave me the free space on the disk, and not the size of the directory, I hH could not believe that a company like that could produce anything good. 9 I have not been disappointed in that view over the years.t  G And the good things they do have were mostly stolen, bought, or copied.e  H Opera has a good reputation. It has been recommended to test web pages. D   If it works well with Opera, it will work with other browsers too.  H But I am really interested in what you are missing in Mozilla, and what I you do find in IE6 and Opera. Perhaps you can give us few examples, that eC would make things a bit more clear for us. So if it is not to much n trouble, tell us !!    Regards,   Dirk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:32:37 -0700o# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s! Subject: RE: Netscape and Mozillaw9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEEDENAA.tom@kednos.com>c   >   -----Original Message-----) >   From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]e+ >   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:24 PMe >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % >   Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla  >i >a >   Tom Linden wrote:0 >   >s" >   >>  -----Original Message-----A >   >>  From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam] - >   >>  Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:18 PM ! >   >>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-) >   >>  Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozilla0 >   >> >   >>F >   >>  In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEPHEMAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom( >   >>  Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J >   >>  :Installed Netscape 3.03 on 7.1-2 AXP and Mozilla 0.9.9 on 7.3 AXP	 >   >>  ::L >   >>  :Two thumbs down for each.  Not ready for prime time and so far from? >   >>  :it, that it probable isn't salvageable.  Certainly not  >   useable.  Upon5 >   >>  :launching Netscape it gets Javacript errors!  >   >>C >   >>    Netscape 3.03 is so ancient, it nicely avoids many of they
 >   obnoxiousbK >   >>    new problems, um, features of the newer web browsers.  That said,2@ >   >>    there are a number of holes in the Javascript, and the >   HTML standarde >   >>    is ancient.o >   >>* >   >>  :Mozilla not even worth reviewing. >   >>K >   >>    Mozilla works nicely if you have sufficient memory and processor. K >   >>    (Given that it is largely based on Java, this is not a surprise.)lK >   >>    If you don't have circa 256 MB (or more) and an EV56 (or better),-I >   >>    then Mozilla and CWSB are unfortunately rather poor choices foraI >   >>    daily use -- Mozilla and CWSB (and Java) are significantly morerE >   >>    resource-intensive than were previous generations of tools.d >   >>B >   >>  :I would certainly like to see Compaq entice Opera to port >   >>  there browser. >   >>= >   >>    Empirical evidence indicates the Opera folks do notS >   answer their mail.C >   >>    (I also don't have buckets of money to throw into this orr >   >>  other porting: >   >>    projects, however.)o >   >- >   >-C >   > I know we have discussed this before, but I think that IE6 isM >   an excellentC >   > browser, and Opera is even better.  Now Opera has been ported) >   to systemsA >   > that have far less presence than VMS, like BeOS, Mac, OS/2,t >   QNX, Symbian< >   > Linux, Solaris and of course Windows.  So why not VMS? >   > @ >   > On another note, I think the ubiquitous use of explorer in >   Windows is aH >   > big forward leap,  not going to totally replace DCL or Bash, but a= >   > marvelous tool.  I am sure you and your colleagues have  >   looked into this,d	 >   > butM> >   > probably dismissed cause all you had to use was Mozilla. >   Can't be that @ >   > difficult or costly to write one from scratch if you can't >   buy one, likew? >   > Opera.  My point is that a browser is more than a desktope >   nicety for theL >   > internet explorer (no pun intended)  it is an interface to a computing >   > environment,A >   > and as heretical as it may sound to this group, in my view,T >   Microsoft hasmA >   > definitely done something right, and I think the have set a  >   new standard,.
 >   > like >   > it or not. >   >c >   >  >   >t >   >e >   >W8 >   >>   ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>% >   >>  -----------------------------b; >   >>        For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  >   >f >   > www.openvms.compaq.com0 >   >  --------------------------- pure personal) >   > opinion ---------------------------s5 >   >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringv >   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >   >  >.4 >   I think we can come to the following conclusion: >2I >   If your alpha is not to ancient, if you have a fairly decent graphics G >   adapter, if you have at least 256 MB memory, if you have tuned yourRK >   system and DecWindows a bit, THEN Mozilla is a very usable browser (andC? >   the only modern browser there is on VMS). A few more helper  >   applications >   would be nice though.d  I OK, but you don't have to do any of that when you are running on W2K. Thel7 machine I installed on was a stock PWS 433au with 512MBs   >dK >   You like IE6 and Opera more, and that's ok. I personnaly dislike any M$ I >   stuff, if only for the brand name. Ever since a DIR command on MS-Dosi? >   gave me the free space on the disk, and not the size of they >   directory, IK >   could not believe that a company like that could produce anything good.m= >   I have not been disappointed in that view over the years.m   No argument there-   >-K >   And the good things they do have were mostly stolen, bought, or copied.e >.K >   Opera has a good reputation. It has been recommended to test web pages. H >     If it works well with Opera, it will work with other browsers too. >lK >   But I am really interested in what you are missing in Mozilla, and what,= >   you do find in IE6 and Opera. Perhaps you can give us few  >   examples, thatF >   would make things a bit more clear for us. So if it is not to much >   trouble, tell us !!a  I I would love to spend the time to do a comparison but I am sure there are, peopleI better at it than I.  To me its just a tool, and if I have a better one Ia	 will use.bD it.  I think the whole layout is ugly, its too busy, I would go more
 hierarchical.rK Installing plugins is a bit more of a challenge.  In some ways, its like ani editor.n9 I use emacs and dislike vi others would say the opposite. F I will try to give more constructive comments as the occassion arises.   >  >   Regards, >m >   Dirk >t >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:59:41 -0400,- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>i$ Subject: Re: Newbie meets OpenVMS ;)( Message-ID: <3CC70096.8E561F35@ohio.edu>  B Hoff did not make explicit one consequence of not being able to doE DECnet access:  SYSMAN will not be able to do some of the things that H would otherwise be possible (unless it has changed since the last time I
 tried that). a   				RDPe     Hoff Hoffman wrote:t > x > In article <20020423061109.32471.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > J > :Sure, for a business it might well be. What I recommend with clients isM > :that they double password the SYSTEM account and create other accounts fori5 > :those who require access with elevated privileges.l > G >   Double password usernames should only be configured when there must J >   be two users present for system access -- the extra password mechanismN >   itself otherwise provides no extra security beyond that a single password.K >   The intent of the double password is for situations when TWO users must I >   be present to log in.  Double password usernames also do restrict theoK >   permissible access, such as the (deliberate) prohibition against remote L >   DECnet access to these usernames.  (Why?  Because such an access control9 >   string would expose both passwords to a single user.)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   --  B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 12:02:01 -0700+ From: ghairst@mcvh-vcu.edu (G. W. Hairston)   Subject: Openvm 7.3 and DECevent= Message-ID: <1ef525c1.0204241101.50cea19c@posting.google.com>r  C Please give me insight on installing Decevent under openvms 7.3. We % are new at using openvms.  Thank you.i   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2002 19:42 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) $ Subject: Re: Openvm 7.3 and DECevent- Message-ID: <24APR200219424424@gerg.tamu.edu>a  / ghairst@mcvh-vcu.edu (G. W. Hairston) writes...yD }Please give me insight on installing Decevent under openvms 7.3. We& }are new at using openvms.  Thank you.   What insight do you need?e  F You install it as the installation instructions indicate. Then you putG the command to start it in ones of your system startup files (which is,nD actually, part of what the instructions indicate as per the previousA sentance). Then, that first time, you run the startup manually tou" get it running. Then you are done.  D Well, except for being irritated at it for being a bit less usefull,H and somewhat slower, than the old ANA/ERROR was (if you ever used that).  = Perhaps you ought to ask an actual question, if you have one.a   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:41:10 -0400u2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: Openvm 7.3 and DECeventK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2404022141100001@1cust182.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   F In article <24APR200219424424@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:   0 >ghairst@mcvh-vcu.edu (G. W. Hairston) writes...E >}Please give me insight on installing Decevent under openvms 7.3. Wey' >}are new at using openvms.  Thank you.  >e  E >Well, except for being irritated at it for being a bit less usefull,pI >and somewhat slower, than the old ANA/ERROR was (if you ever used that).l  8 But it's faster and less irritating than Compaq Analyze.   :-)n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:06:16 GMT 5 From: peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)b Subject: OT: AOL2 Message-ID: <3cc71e2f.18845453@news.cable.ntl.com>  D http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1949000/1949651.stm   he hel     Peter Watkinson, peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.come   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 22:38:45 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: PC Worker- Message-ID: <87it6hkvpm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>I  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > Dean Woodward wrote:    > > <cough><snort>B > > Do you know how hard it is to get hot cocoa out of a keyboard?  F Does not matter, what you need is how to get _cold_ cocoa out of it :)  s= > Did I ever tell you the story of the faulty LK411 keyboard?+  = My effort: ::bump:: and look at a sightly up-side down can ofn* Coke that was doing glug, glug... Oh dear.  > 'Hello Digital, LK250 is dead. 'cause it has had a can of coke poured through it.'o  $ 'We don't cover that sort of thing!'  , 'Why, you say office environment don't you?'  4 15 min later, failed circus arrived with a new LK ;)  = That was the days, LK, DEPCA and DECnet-DOS licence for about  the price of the DEPCA.K   -- A< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.f@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:53:01 -0400n From: William_Bochnik@acml.com Subject: Re: PC Worker> Message-ID: <OF1120A2F0.1DD9CB2F-ON85256BA5.0067B04D@acml.com>  < my personal fav. was the keyboard with pineapple juice in it      [                                                                                             [                       Paul Repacholi                                                       n[                       <prep@prep.synon                To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com           E[                       et.com>                         cc:                                  M[                                                Subject: Re: PC Worker                      >[                       04/24/2002 10:38                                                     f[                       AM                                                                   b[                       Please respond                                                       N[                       to Paul                                                              p[                       Repacholi                                                             [                       <prep@prep.synon                                                      [                       et.com>                                                              0[                                                                                             [                                                                                            d      * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > Dean Woodward wrote:   > > <cough><snort>8 > > Do you know how hard it is to get hot cocoa out of a	 keyboard?   @ Does not matter, what you need is how to get _cold_ cocoa out of it :)f  = > Did I ever tell you the story of the faulty LK411 keyboard?   = My effort: ::bump:: and look at a sightly up-side down can of * Coke that was doing glug, glug... Oh dear.  > 'Hello Digital, LK250 is dead. 'cause it has had a can of coke poured through it.'n  $ 'We don't cover that sort of thing!'  , 'Why, you say office environment don't you?'  4 15 min later, failed circus arrived with a new LK ;)  = That was the days, LK, DEPCA and DECnet-DOS licence for aboutb the price of the DEPCA.i   --< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.= EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, alwaysi will be.          F ______________________________________________________________________;  The information contained in this transmission may contain @ privileged and confidential information and is intended only forA the use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intendedI= recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for deliveringa3 this message to the intended recipient, any review, @ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication? is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy,# all copies of the original message.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:28:52 -0400,1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: PC Worker2 Message-ID: <3CC70774.9D957F5E@firstdbasource.com>   William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:- > > > my personal fav. was the keyboard with pineapple juice in it >  >  <snip>  F I used to be the guy that showed up with the new keyboard. I have seenB coffee, coke, ink, staples/paper clips (these 2 cause some bizarreF behavior) water (from leaky roof), Ketchup.. to name just a few... oh, those were the days....   D I fixed the Ketchup (some kid used a squirt bottle to fill it up) byH washing it out with hot water and letting it dry for a couple of days... it still worked... i -- E Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163r7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comn Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)m 704-236-4377 (Mobile)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:52:22 -0400I( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: PC Worker, Message-ID: <3CC6FEE6.2080806@tsoft-inc.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:h  , > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >  >  >>Dean Woodward wrote: >> >  s >  >>><cough><snort>gA >>>Do you know how hard it is to get hot cocoa out of a keyboard?  >>>d > H > Does not matter, what you need is how to get _cold_ cocoa out of it :) >  p > = >>Did I ever tell you the story of the faulty LK411 keyboard?e >> > ? > My effort: ::bump:: and look at a sightly up-side down can ofd, > Coke that was doing glug, glug... Oh dear. > @ > 'Hello Digital, LK250 is dead. 'cause it has had a can of coke > poured through it.'s > & > 'We don't cover that sort of thing!' > . > 'Why, you say office environment don't you?' > 6 > 15 min later, failed circus arrived with a new LK ;)    H I remember that post from a few years ago.  There were additional posts O concerning cleaning the various models of keyboard.  Universal solution is hot  O water, sometimes with some soap.  The keyboards supplied with the VT500 series uO of terminals are the easiest to clean.  The severity of the job increases with   age of the keyboard design.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:19:06 -0400s* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: PC Worker- Message-ID: <0033000061422658000002L082*@MHS>>  7 =0AI've 'eard stow-ries 'bout LK201s, I think they wuz,t  2 which, after an occurrence of "The Pepsi Syndrome"  ? (a phrase wot became popular when the film "The China Syndrome"   was released),    were run through a dishwasher--n  7     I can only guess that they were top rack only :) :)>>     I dare not ponder whether the drying heat option was used.  ; and then allowed to thoroughly dry out before redeployment.r  = Said LK201s purportedly then functioned perfectly afterwards.a   WWWEbb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 3:27 PMrB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: PC Worker     William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:t >e> > my personal fav. was the keyboard with pineapple juice in it >i >  <snip>  F I used to be the guy that showed up with the new keyboard. I have seenB coffee, coke, ink, staples/paper clips (these 2 cause some bizarreF behavior) water (from leaky roof), Ketchup.. to name just a few... oh, those were the days....e  D I fixed the Ketchup (some kid used a squirt bottle to fill it up) byH washing it out with hot water and letting it dry for a couple of days..= .o it still worked... -- Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163r7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coms Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)=   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:37:41 GMTt( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net># Subject: Re: Reading a file in javau+ Message-ID: <3CC74214.13CB14FF@pacbell.net>    Ken Kalish wrote:  > G > On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:36:06 GMT, kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish) wrote:s > 9 > >On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:44 -0400, "Pierre-Luc Morin"S* > ><Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> wrote: > >oP > >>I am reading a file that contains an array of byte from an OpenVMS. It seemsP > >>that when i rewrite it back to the hard disk the two first bytes are missingP > >>and two other are added at the very end.  Are they checksums? how can i make6 > >>sure that the file is rewrite correctly to the hd? > >> > >>Thanks,i > >> > >>Pierre-Luc > >> > > . > >This will read and write bytes, Pierre-Luc. > >l > >import java.io.*; > >  > >public class ByteFile { > > / > >    public static void main(String[] args) {t > >        try {0 > >            File file = new File("in.bytes"); > >d- > >            int size = (int)file.length();n0 > >            byte[] contents = new byte[size]; > >h? > >            FileInputStream fis = new FileInputStream(file); " > >            fis.read(contents); > > I > >            FileOutputStream fos2 = new FileOutputStream("out.bytes");t$ > >            fos2.write(contents); > >-" > >        } catch (Exception e) {% > >            System.out.println(e);  > >        } > >    } > >a > >} > N > but on second look, even through reading bytes, Java can't access the lengthN > prefix that others have pointed out (in this thread), nor what appears to be: > the trailing word 0xFFFF and any necessary 0x00 padding. > M > So, there probably is no way to exactly copy a file with java-only methods, P > since java can't read or write byte for byte. That's surprisng, but I guess in > retrospect, it fits. >   H I copy files byte for byte all the time using the (DataInputStream in) &N (DataOutputStream out) classes with in.readChar() & out.writeChars(String st).; Of course the input files were also created by my Java app.e      K > Also, Manny pointed out that the right-to-left order of the DUMP command,WM > which I asked about in this thread, is due to the little-endianness of VMS.o > -- > 
 > Regards, >  > Ken Kalish >  > there is no Java cartel    -- f   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:40:10 GMTt1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)hG Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: is there a DSL router with a console?!t9 Message-ID: <uUKx8.9488$d17.418274@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   2 Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) wrote: : Phillip Helbig wrote:p : > L : > For my hobbyist setup, I have a LAN behind an ISDN router.  I have fixedE : > IP addresses.  I am thinking of adding DSL because flat rates areuI : > available.  I don't know of anyone who offers fixed IP addresses with G : > DSL.  DHCP is not an option because, again, making the names of the I : > machines known to the world is an extra service which is probably noth2 : > available with a standard cheap flat-rate DSL. : > D : > The ISDN connection times out after 2 minutes.  If I initiate anK : > outgoing connection, I pay for it as part of the normal phone bill.  If K : > the ISP creates a connection to me, he charges me at the standard phonelK : > rate.  (My telephone bill is such that I don't have to pay for outgoingaK : > calls on Sundays and holidays, so I initiate an outgoing connection andi- : > keep it alive from midnight to midnight.)e : > L : > It seems that, at least for now, I will have to keep the ISDN router forG : > incoming stuff.  For outgoing stuff, however, it might be worth theiL : > trouble to go through a DSL router, since I wouldn't have to pay for it.G : > (I think that this will save a lot of costs, but there WILL be someeL : > additional cost since under the new scheme all incoming connections willH : > be initiated by the ISP---in the past, if an outgoing connection was* : > already there, no new one was needed). : > L : > I suppose it is no problem to have two routers in the same LAN---one theK : > present ISDN router and one a new DSL router.  I assume that by setting E : > the DSL router as the default gateway (and, perhaps, changing thesH : > ALTERNATE GATEWAY in SMTP as well as the bind resolver---so that allK : > external machines I need to access are available via DSL (at the momenteL : > they are at the ISP and I'm not sure if he will allow just anyone to use? : > them)), outgoing stuff will not use the ISDN router at all.  : > J : > So far, so good, unless I've missed something, which hopefully someone : > here could point out.w : > I : > It would be nice to be able to connect to my LAN from the outside viasK : > DSL as well---without a fixed IP address.  I could initiate connectionslK : > periodically automatically to where I want to connect from, see what IP(K : > address (that of the DSL router) they come from, and then TELNET to thetK : > router.  However, I want to get from the router to machines on the LAN.- : > D : > I've heard of routers which have a "TELNET console": once one isC : > connected to it (via telnet, dial-up, whatever), one can TELNETsG : > elsewhere from it (sort of like the console on a terminal server orpD : > whatever).  Are there DSL routers which have this functionality? :  : G : If you want to do it right, get an external ethernet modem and a SOHO H : router (I use the Linksys BEFSR41.  I have SMTP server and News ServerF : (downloads from my ISP) that works well.. .they don't "allow" ftp orG : http servers so I have those ports blocked at the router and open the4 : ones I need. : D : I also have a PERL script called ddclient (from ZONEEDIT.COM) thatF : updates my dynamic IP address (every 5 minutes) -- but it runs on myI : Linux box.  I have not ported it to run as a detached process on my VMSWG : box yet. I have extracted the usable parts and get "@getip.pl" to get-J : the current. My VMS box has a static non-routable 192.168.. IP address. 3 : DNS points to local domain and uses DNS from ISP.2 : G : 2 VMS boxes (Alpha 2100's - one is currently powered off due to heat)t( : 2 Linux PC's - (133 and 166Mhz Pent 1) : 2 Windoze (98 and ME)s : 1 Laptop (WNT4.0)  : an additional 8-port hub : G That's similar to my cable modem router setup. The router is a Linksys n; BEFSR41 router/4-port switch that does NAT on the LAN side.y  4  o The VMS box has a static IP address: 192.168.1.96  o One Windows 98 PC uses DHCP:  o Another Windows 98 has a fixed IP address: 192.168.1.90:    It's running the Mocha LPD package used by the VMS box.  I It appears that my ISP assigns a static IP address to their cable modem, nG so I registered the VMS box at www.dyndns.org with a static IP address.   J I had to define a subsititute domain in UCX to make the VMS system capable of sending & receiving email.     H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailg   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:00:02 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g) Subject: Re: Suggestion: SET DEVICE/RESETa' Message-ID: <3CC77402.E91255B5@fsi.net>.   mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote: > ) > In article <3CC62402.401EA7E7@fsi.net>, 5 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > JF Mezei wrote:t > >>R > >> Got caught with a TK70 tape that broke  where there is a hole in the magneticR > >> tape about 2 feet from the leader. Of course, the TK70 drive became confused. > >>O > >> I powered it off, removed the cassette and remaining tape inside the unit,eS > >> reset the tape "catcher" and powered the unit back on. It can succesfully load2N > >> and unlaod tapes. However, VMS still complains about "medium is offline". > >>R > >> I let it rest overnight, hoping it would timeout, but alas no. So I am having* > >> to reboot my master node to fix this. > >>R > >> Shouldn't there be some sort of SET DEV/RESET that would send a signal to theR > >> driver/hardware to reset itself ? (perhaps followed by a SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE > >> ALL to reload the device).r > > I > > I recently discovered - these drives and their younger cousins (TZ88, H > > etc.) do this to the HSJs, as well. Ya gotta delete them and add 'em7 > > back before youy can use 'em again after a failure.e > >t > > :-(e > >d > > -- > > David J. Dachterao > > dba DJE Systemsd > > http://www.djesys.com/ > >n, > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o > H > It's been a while so I forget all the details, but, in the instance ofF > a tape drive hung off an HSJ you can frequently recover use of it byH > issueing a SET SECURITY command targeting the device. Try changing theH > the protection mask to something else and back again. A side effect ofH > this is that a bit in some status mask gets cleared. I don't recall if@ > the bit is within one of the UCB fields or the ORB. Anyway, myE > recollection is that the bit represented "damaged" hardware. Sorry,PE > I can't remember all the details (it's been a while); don't know if % > this would help with JF's TK drive.   F My problem was that the HSJ reported the device as "misconfigured - noG device at PTL" or something. VMS simply reported it as off-line. So, no.2 matter what you did, the HSJ still saw it as AWOL.   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:16:37 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>I? Subject: Survey result: to migrate or not to migrate, and where ' Message-ID: <3CC712A4.62FAAAE0@Free.fr>   M I did a phone survey among 100 decidors in France last week, who have/had VAXC and/or Alphas/VMS.   There were three questions:   ! 1. do you still have a VMS system  2. if not, where did you go?, 3. if you do, what are your migration plans?   results:   Chirac: 19%  ooops... sorry :-)   results:  0 60% have already moved to HP/UX or SUN or RS6000+ 30% are currently migrating to HP/UX or SUN O 10% still have VMS and do not know what to do. Most of them want to "keep" VMS.p   Fyi.   D. --  H   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418I >>> ClosedVMS and False64 UNIX migrations to ? pre-analysis on demand <<< E      See you on the 12th/15th of May at ITUG/DECUS in Lyon, booth #13    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:04:32 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i Subject: Re: tape problems #2 ' Message-ID: <3CC7750D.4DAF17F4@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CC625B7.8C722A73@fsi.net>... > > Hank Vander Waal wrote:f > > >u9 > > > I have a 4mm dat tape drive on VMS 7.1 ALPHA systemiM > > > when I try to restore from the tape backup gets an error just before itoR > > > starts the desired saveset  The first save set works just fine.   I can DUMPP > > > the tape and can see the 2nd saveset is there and the contents of it.   IsL > > > there ANY program or procedure that will let me get past the error and3 > > > either restore or copy down the 2nd saveset??c > > >eC > > > I have tried the tape on other drives and get the same error.n > >,K > > If you can get past the read error with DUMP, leave the tape positioned J > > on the EOF labels just PRIOR to the saveset you want, assuming they'reK > > not part of the "bad spot". Then, BACKUP should locate the saveset justw% > > fine and you can do your restore._ > >_I > > My DR site does not recommend 4mm tapes for mission critical backups.nJ > > They are fragile and easily stretched, they say. My experience matches > > their comments.y > F > Another thing you can try is to MOUNT the tape without /FOREIGN, andE > COPY the save set to a disk, and then restore therefrom. You can doaH > this iff the block size of the save set is less than or equal to 32256G > bytes, as save sets on disks cannot exist with larger block sizes. (IoE > use VMS6.1 and 6.2 -- so any developments past that on this issue Ip > may be unaware of.)   H Trouble there is that DISMOUNT/MOUNT will rewind the tape. Errors duringB COPY crossing the bad spot will leave the tape in an unpredictable? position, and SET MAGTAPE only works when the device is MOUNTed7B /FOREIGN. A subsequent COPY may not work if the tape is in a goofy1 position (don't have the gear to test that here).p   -- e David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2002 19:06 CDTh' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e  Subject: Re: TCPWare Vs MultiNet- Message-ID: <24APR200219061084@gerg.tamu.edu>p  Q In article <3CC69517.366D@vcn.bc.ca>, Thomas Dzubin <dzubint@vcn.bc.ca> writes...i }issinoho wrote:I }> I've been plowing through Process Software's site trying to decide (a)iG }> why do they produce 2 high-end IP stacks which look to be doing much0; }> the same thing, and (b) which one should I purchase/use.- } D }In 1997, Process software (makers of TCPware), bought Multinet from% }Cisco who bought it from TGV in 1996:I }I'm glad they're separate products since I've been a Multinet user sincewB }the early 1990s, but yeah...good question...I'm not sure why they }haven't merged them together. }  }Thomass  D They are, very slowly, merging them together. They are starting with: various things that run in separate processes. If you do a $ SEARCH MULTINET:*.COM TCPWARE < you'll find that some of them check to see if it is MultinetB or TCPware that you are running (it's two of them in V4.3A, it may be more in 4.4).  C TCPware now uses the SMTP server that was originally from Mutlinet.dE They also apparently share the SSH stuff as of 18-Jul-2000 (according " to the comment in START_SSH.COM).    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:19:06 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>X Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!)B Message-ID: <uGCx8.181850$K5.15301014@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagei< news:fIBx8.180867$K5.15254333@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...   ...   H > OTOH, David never actually used the VMS file system directly, but onlyJ > through the RMS record-management layer on top of it.  The raw code-pathJ > execution differences he saw when running from a RAM disk (which is what you0. > may be referring to above) were due to this.  K Whoops - ISTR that the C run-time library (assuming that this is what David I was performing his measurements with) may in fact emulate rather than uselK RMS, and underneath that emulation use the file system directly.  If so, myyK statement above was incorrect:  while the path-length to a RAM disk in suchiE use is noticeably longer than that to the Unix system cache, it's note because of RMS.1  D The VIOC should provide a somewhat shorter path length, but may haveK limitations (ISTR some 35-sector max cache size being mentioned) that would L prevent the caching efficiencies that the Unix cache (or RMS global buffers)J can attain.  And while XFC should improve this situation as well, it's notJ quite there yet.  However, I also STR that the C run-time library emulatesG RMS sufficiently faithfully that it can use the buffer-size informationyK settable externally via DCL:  if David did not bump up that size, he wasn'teF doing everything he could to minimize *average* operation path length.   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:50:00 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>X Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!)F Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0204241331500.8995-100000@athena.csdco.com>   Bill,n  H A year or more ago we corresponded (via COV) on this topic and I've read David's analysis too.=  J To look at what you say below from the application perspective, one reallyC has to compare something like Unix/Oracle with VMS/RMS.  In systemsn? running here with 100s of millions of records RMS indexed filesh< (VMS/GS140/HSG80) beat Oracle (Tru64/GS140/HSZ80) handily.    D RMS is a lot easier to optimize than Oracle and it is very much more  forgiving about extending files.  H The Unix raw I/O speed may (or may not in some cases) be higher, but theA application speeds, especially with HS controllers are similar.  b  E I have seen Oracle automatically restart after a system crash and wasrH thankful.  With RMS that is expected and I can't remember when it didn't happen.e  
 John Nebel  % On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Bill Todd wrote:    > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"r? > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message " > news:3CC6C1AD.9030007@sun.com... > >  > >i > > Bill Todd wrote: >  > ...  > 7 > > > While a general perception that VMS's file system.L > > > performs relatively poorly might be understandable, the problem is not > withL > > > its capabilities but with its default settings (which are long overdue > fortK > > > update:  they're aimed at optimizing performance in systems with maint > memoryJ > > > on the order of a megabyte rather than a gigabyte).  It is eminentlyM > > > possible for a user to obtain competitive performance from the VMS filelL > > > system, but it requires a good deal more intimate acquaintance than is- > > > required by, say, typical Unix systems.h > > >f > >aL > > I am sure that altering the default settings helps, but if David MathogsK > > benchmark results for OpenVMS and other OS's were correct and if I read I > > them correctly changing the default settings improved performance butrG > > not by enough to make OpenVMS filesystem I/O comparable with modernt > > UNIX's.  > H > OTOH, David never actually used the VMS file system directly, but onlyJ > through the RMS record-management layer on top of it.  The raw code-pathN > execution differences he saw when running from a RAM disk (which is what you. > may be referring to above) were due to this. > L > VMS and Unix aren't really directly comparable in this respect:  VMS has aI > file system (which is accessible to applications, though most access itnD > through RMS) but that performs sector-level access to files, and aI > record-management layer (RMS) on top of that which *can* perform simplepI > Unix-style stream access (or even sector-level access) but is primarilyuK > aimed at performing sequential, random, and multi-keyed indexed access togL > record-structured files.  The RMS layer does make the code path for simpleN > access noticeably longer than it otherwise could be, while direct use of theD > file system likely makes it shorter than in Unix (but requires theH > application to do its own blocking/deblocking of data from the sectors > accessed). >  > >oH > > Its also worth pointing out that David did not use any of the fasterJ > > UNIX filesystem options. He did not run UFS+ on Solaris in direct modeH > > or use VxFS or QFS all of which could have dramatically improved theE > > performance when compared with default UFS+ performance. Most bigeG > > DBMS servers use either VxFS or UFS+ with Direct I/O (standard parteI > > of UFS). These both bypass the UFS buffer cache for filesystem writessA > > in order to improve performance and reduce memory contention.h > F > Nor did he use the direct file system access mechanisms (or even theM > equivalent RMS mechanisms) that do exactly the same thing - and, unlike thei6 > recent Unix facilities, have been there since Day 1. >  > > I > > The OpenVMS filesystem also does not seem to support a mechanism like E > > read clustering which can improve read performance without making  > > changes to apps. > N > Without knowing exactly what you mean by 'read clustering', I will note thatJ > VMS  1) supports facilities that make files contiguous, or optionally asE > contiguous as possible, on disk (and even finer 'placement control'sN > mechanisms, but they aren't relevant to this particular point),  2) supportsE > (via specifiable buffer sizes) variable access granularity to fileseJ > (contiguous or not), such that each disk request brings in a specifiableF > amount of data (and this can be controlled on a per-file basis by anB > application or by setting values outside the application - i.e.,M > transparently), and  3) supports asynchronous multi-buffering for both read I > and write access (I'm not certain whether this option can be controlleduH > outside the application, but it is easy to do inside the application). > L > VMS's file system faults really are only in ease of use, not in breadth ofK > facilities or capabilities.  It requires some knowledge (but is in no waysN > impossible) to get a VMS system to access files with the default performanceN > (and, one might add, the default fragility) that a Unix system has.  In partI > this is because of antiquated default settings that *probably* could betG > changed with only beneficial effects (the 'probably' part is why theynL > weren't changed long ago, but some mechanism allowing them to be differentL > for at least *new* applications is long overdue).  In part this is becauseI > of more basic design differences that make use of a common system cache N > (especially in a cluster environment) more difficult - though, as with otherF > differences, the benefits of centralized caching can be obtained viaG > mechanisms such as RMS's global buffers (which IIRC can be configured K > transparently to an application) and additional progress was made severalpL > years ago when the 'virtual I/O cache' (VIOC) was implemented (the new XFCM > further improves the situation, but still has some kinks left to work out).  >  > - bill >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 14:21:48 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)WX Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!)3 Message-ID: <A84G4eW3lI6G@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  } In article <3CC6C1AD.9030007@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:t   > J > I am sure that altering the default settings helps, but if David MathogsI > benchmark results for OpenVMS and other OS's were correct and if I readeG > them correctly changing the default settings improved performance buttE > not by enough to make OpenVMS filesystem I/O comparable with modernd	 > UNIX's.6 > F > Its also worth pointing out that David did not use any of the fasterH > UNIX filesystem options. He did not run UFS+ on Solaris in direct modeF > or use VxFS or QFS all of which could have dramatically improved theC > performance when compared with default UFS+ performance. Most bigsE > DBMS servers use either VxFS or UFS+ with Direct I/O (standard partkG > of UFS). These both bypass the UFS buffer cache for filesystem writesl? > in order to improve performance and reduce memory contention.o > G > The OpenVMS filesystem also does not seem to support a mechanism like-C > read clustering which can improve read performance without makinga > changes to apps. >   B 	Support "read clustering?"  No... and a good point as sequential C 	pre-fetch at the controller still means you have to go out to the aD 	controller.  However, XFC (eXtended File Cache) futures (2.x) show B 	sequential pre-fetch in the cache which will gain parity there.  ( 	Likewise, RDBMSes will pre-fetch today.   >  > I > I think I covered this in the rest of my posting. Compaq has squandered J > most of the leads it had in areas like clustering. Even more gastly theyJ > actually gave OpenVMS clustering IP to Microsoft which fortunately being > MS they squandered.c >   ? 	Why?  Like many , MS suffers from NIH* syndrome.  And actuallyn@ 	occurs within the same company across OS platforms, (surprise!)  @ 	But not just NIH syndrome, but two very different paradigms but; 	changing as we speak as the latest is MS is going the NUMAo 	route:f  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-890698.htmle  M The Redmond, Wash.-based software giant set the state for Hammer support lastUO week when it said Windows would support servers based around Non-Uniform Memoryv Architecture, or NUMA. i  ) 	So they get their own version of RADs**.    				Robt   *   Not Invented Herem **  Resource Affinity Domain   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:41:29 GMTD* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>X Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!)A Message-ID: <ZLEx8.79620$ro5.6815529@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,  / "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> wrote in messagen@ news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0204241331500.8995-100000@athena.csdco.com... >T > Bill,  >gJ > A year or more ago we corresponded (via COV) on this topic and I've read > David's analysis too.f > L > To look at what you say below from the application perspective, one reallyE > has to compare something like Unix/Oracle with VMS/RMS.  In systemsoA > running here with 100s of millions of records RMS indexed files < > (VMS/GS140/HSG80) beat Oracle (Tru64/GS140/HSZ80) handily. >iF > RMS is a lot easier to optimize than Oracle and it is very much more" > forgiving about extending files.  L Well, yes, but that's not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison - andF while I believe that a great many applications that use Oracle *could*G benefit from using something like RMS instead, that's less an option ina9 applications that wish to be portable to other platforms.   I While comparing standard C-like access between Unix and VMS does give themK former (having been designed around it) an undeniable advantage, VMS shouldeI still welcome the comparison because it *could* still be very competitive I even while offering significantly greater opportunity for access in otherAL styles as well.  The fact that it is often not competitive (coupled with theK popularity of C) is an indictment of its development strategy and support -rI but, as I pointed out, largely in the areas of antiquated defaults rather " than in actual lack of capability.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:13:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>"Y Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) -, Message-ID: <3CC703C8.A0054AE7@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:G > The OpenVMS filesystem also does not seem to support a mechanism likelC > read clustering which can improve read performance without making  > changes to apps.  N But with software volume shadowing, VMS will do automatic balancing of read IOJ load across all members of the shadowset. And this is transparent to apps.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:41:35 -0700D' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>tY Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) A+ Message-ID: <3CC7268F.49F458D9@caltech.edu>    Bill Todd wrote: > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"e? > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in messager" > news:3CC6C1AD.9030007@sun.com... > >d > >s > > Bill Todd wrote: >  > ...  > L > > I am sure that altering the default settings helps, but if David MathogsK > > benchmark results for OpenVMS and other OS's were correct and if I read I > > them correctly changing the default settings improved performance but G > > not by enough to make OpenVMS filesystem I/O comparable with modernn > > UNIX's.f  P Or comparable to WNT.  Or to anything with a high performance cached file system whichlN "stores" very quickly without any significant tuning by the user.  (Or course,N it takes some work to make sure the data actually hits the disk, but for a lot of whateM we do it isn't important that the data ever hit the disk.  Example, download,u
 build, andN install a piece of software.  In this case only the final binaries and support filessK actually need to make it out of cache - the rest is deleted after the buildd completes.)s  / The results and test code are still on line at:c  D   ftp://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/benchmarks/mybenchmark.zip   G for anybody who cares to review it or mess around with it on some othere	 platform.s  P I really don't want to rehash this can of worms again but suffice it to say that the J "disk performance" observed when running the typical sorts of user level C programsN we utilize are substantially (1-2 orders of magnitude) better on Unix/WNT than theyP are on VMS.  VMS (as of 7.2 anyway) also had incredibly slow pipe throughput and it felleM completely to pieces on a multilevel pipe.  The combination added up to a dogi slowK workstation for typical molecular biology work, even running on a DS10 withp Ultra2D SCSI disks.  A nearly identical machine running Linux blew the doorsO off the VMS machine on a typical workload (which tended to become IO limited on  the VMSR	 machine.)V  H In the end there was no way to justify running VMS for this application.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2002 17:40:53 GMT  From: tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca+ Subject: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe , Message-ID: <aa6qn5$3bq$1@is-news.gov.ab.ca>  J We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method of K wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points   would be appreciated?    Regardsa Tadd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:28:33 -0400.1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>r/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipey2 Message-ID: <3CC6F951.EB30B4EF@firstdbasource.com>  ! tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca wrote:t > K > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method of L > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points > would be appreciated?m > 	 > Regards4 > Tadd     boot standalone backup v INIT/ERASE all disks repeat for system disk.s you now have a clean system.   -- f Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163a7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)b 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:49:58 -0400r* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>/ Subject: RE: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wiped- Message-ID: <0033000061408158000002L082*@MHS>e  " =0AIn ascending order of security:   1) INIT/ERASE;7 2) Low-level format from console depending on HW model;i! 3) Strong, strong magnetic field;o$ 4) Crush drive via mechanical means;> 5) Disassemble drive, sand platter surfaces, dissolve in acid;  A    (don't laugh, I've worked with somebody who had to do #5 whilet     in the military)   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe' Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:35 PMcB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET+ Subject: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipen    H We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method = ofH wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting poi= nts  would be appreciated?    Regardss Tadd=p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:23:05 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipeu, Message-ID: <3CC70615.9DAE553F@videotron.ca>  ! tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca wrote:  > K > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method ofuL > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points > would be appreciated?v  L First step is to create a few large files over and over again that will fill the hard drive.o  & Then DELETE/erase dev:[000000...]*.*;* Then INIT/ERASE > Then ANA/MEDIA/EXERCISE  (look at help for all the qualifiers)  L Then, go to console mode and issue the TEST comands to get the SCSI drive to) do its own low level format of the drive.P  M The above commands will write sufficient random data over the drive to rendero the old data unrecoverable.O  J (Creating those empty large files initially ensures that DELETE/ERASE willR also zap blocks that may have been occupied by files that were previously deleted.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:11:18 GMTo8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipel9 Message-ID: <qrDx8.22$xz5.672829@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   O In article <aa6qn5$3bq$1@is-news.gov.ab.ca>, tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca writes:cK >We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method of aL >wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points  >would be appreciated?  ' How "secure" do you require this to be?e  G INIT/ERASE was previously suggested, but, given motive and money it mayw? be possible to retrieve at least some data after an INIT/ERASE.o  ? Low level reformatting or bulk degausing will make this harder.A  A Beyond that, there is physical destruction -- up to and including A melting the drives, which is about the most secure method I know.e   -- rK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAtH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:13:51 -0600I# From: Tadd Cameron <Tadd@iname.com>u/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipeS) Message-ID: <3CC703EF.3BCCBD64@iname.com>d  @ Can't be that easy.  Is the data comfortably permanently erased?   Thanks for the responsef Tadd   Michael Austin wrote:r  # > tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca wrote:D > >MM > > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method ofrN > > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points > > would be appreciated?  > >M > > RegardsI > > Tadd >  > boot standalone backup > INIT/ERASE all disks > repeat for system disk.e > you now have a clean system. >g > --
 > Regards, >g9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163i9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comt > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)  > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:48:13 -0400s1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>s/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipec2 Message-ID: <3CC70BFD.95B0E228@firstdbasource.com>   Tadd Cameron wrote:  > B > Can't be that easy.  Is the data comfortably permanently erased? >  > Thanks for the responser > Tadd >  > Michael Austin wrote:l > % > > tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca wrote:g > > >oO > > > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method ofnP > > > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points > > > would be appreciated?n > > >x
 > > > Regardst
 > > > Tadd > >  > > boot standalone backup > > INIT/ERASE all disks > > repeat for system disk.   > > you now have a clean system. > >v > > -- > > Regards, > >a; > > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163a; > > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  > > Sr. Consultant > > 704-947-1089 (Office)  > > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)U    E DELETE/ERASE write a random pattern to all blocks associated with thei file.OD INIT/ERASE writes a random bit pattern to the entire disk.. how muchH more secure do you need it to be?  Once the bit pattern has been writtenC it is virtually impossible to tell what the bits were before it wasm written.   -- n Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163n7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 13:19:42 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipeu3 Message-ID: <mZCpYq4lYEZa@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  O In article <aa6qn5$3bq$1@is-news.gov.ab.ca>, tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca writes: L > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method of M > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points f > would be appreciated?s  F INITIALIZE/ERASE is good enough for most purposes other than defendingF against some national intelligence agency.  If the latter is a problemC with which you must deal, you should be talking to your accreditingt? agency rather than to us furriners from south of the border :-)r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:24:16 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipep9 Message-ID: <QvEx8.29$BA5.710748@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>i  O In article <aa6qn5$3bq$1@is-news.gov.ab.ca>, tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca writes:nK :We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method of  L :wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points  :would be appreciated?  G   There is no single answer for secure disk erasure, as the acceptable uH   technique(s) depend directly on the value of the actual data involved.  $   For the typical commercial case...     Data disks: issue INIT/ERASE.d  K   As for the system disk: Boot the current OpenVMS VAX CD-ROM distribution bH   kit bootable environment system root, exit to the DCL prompt, and then   INIT/ERASE the system disk.u  I   If you do not have a bootable environment nor current distribution, youbG   can build a standalone BACKUP root on one of the local disk spindles,RI   and BACKUP/IMAGE/INIT restore some random saveset onto the system disk.p     --  E   There may well be a console command in this box, various of the VAXaF   series had TEST commands that COULD activate a SCSI_Util mechanism, 7   and there is usually a disk erasure tool within this.   @   When present, the erase tool usually looks like this sequence:  -     >>> test/util scsi  ! or >>> T SCSI ERASEo=     ... list of tools, including hd_dsk_erase or some such...w7     SCSI_Util> [erase tool tool-number from above list]s     SCSI_ID> [SCSI id]     SCSI_LUN> 0e     Ok?  OKa    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:28:17 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipee, Message-ID: <3CC71559.7C1B3795@videotron.ca>   Michael Austin wrote:oJ > more secure do you need it to be?  Once the bit pattern has been writtenE > it is virtually impossible to tell what the bits were before it wasa
 > written.  L "virtually" is the keyword here. There are experts who are _supposedly_ ableL to extrapolate data that was written over once. Hence my suggestion to use aM few different methods to ensure that enough data was written sufficient timese0 that the original data is no longer recoverable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:36:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipee, Message-ID: <3CC71753.813C5509@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:nK >   If you do not have a bootable environment nor current distribution, you I >   can build a standalone BACKUP root on one of the local disk spindles,wK >   and BACKUP/IMAGE/INIT restore some random saveset onto the system disk.s  L I once had the opportunity to do a DELETE dev:[000000...]*.*;* on the system  disk of a system booted minimum.  I I was surprised at the extent of its ability to zap the drive. Of course, H after that, I was left with no shutdown nor opcrash.exe  to turn off theI system, and I had to resort to the all mighty ON-OFF switch on the actual)
 computer :-) s  J I suspect that there were a few files left on, but from a proprietary dataM perspective, that data would have been Digital proprietary data (the very low-K level basic VMS files needed to keep a minimally booted VMS system running,m= with the DELETE.EXE file which could haven't deleted itself).r  J I.E. the data left on the system drive was not the bank's, so it wasn't so much of an issue.    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2002 20:03 CDTn' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)-/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe - Message-ID: <24APR200220030142@gerg.tamu.edu>R  ' Tadd Cameron <Tadd@iname.com> writes...: }Michael Austin wrote:$ }> tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca wrote:N }> > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method ofO }> > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting pointsT }> > would be appreciated?	 }> > Tadd  }> }> boot standalone backupt }> INIT/ERASE all disksi }> repeat for system disk. }> you now have a clean system.t }>: }> Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 } A }Can't be that easy.  Is the data comfortably permanently erased?s }  }Thanks for the response }Taddi  A Depends on what you mean by both "comfortably" and "permanantly".i  + Can J. Random Person recreate the data? No.   A Can a standard "data recovery" company recreate the data? Maybe - - I'd guess they could get at least some of it.a  6 Can the NSA and it's relatives recreate the data? Yes.  ? If you want to do better, add in an ANA/MEDIA/ERASE=FULL and/orl do multiple erasures.   @ INIT/ERASE actually writes data to every block, except maybe the@ file index, bitmap, bad blocks and suchlike (it may do the write@ to the locations of the file index, bitmap, etc. before creatingA them - I don't know). It may actually write to each byte 3 times,c@ but I'm not sure (if you use ANA/MEDIA/EXERCISE=FULL it writes 3. times, all bits 0, all bits 1, and a pattern).  @ If you want to be sure, physically destroy the disks in the most* gruesomely complete manner you can manage.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:32:49 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe-& Message-ID: <3CC77BAF.91959BF@fsi.net>   Michael Austin wrote:  > # > tadd_cameron@aoc.gov.ab.ca wrote:  > >cM > > We are decommissioning our 4000-100 and are in need of a secure method ofrN > > wiping the SCSI drives prior to its removal.  Any Ideas or starting points > > would be appreciated?M > >e > > Regardso > > Tadd >  > boot standalone backup > INIT/ERASE all disks > repeat for system disk.n > you now have a clean system.  & %SYSTEM-E-INVOPT, option not available? -SYSTEM-I-BKPONLY, only BACKUP commands can be issued to SABKUPe  F However, as of OpenVMS-VAX V6.2 or so, you can boot from root 1 of the@ CD (minimal system) and select the option to issue DCL commands.  G Note, however, that since STARTUP.COM will not have run completely, youR? may need to MC SYSGEN AUTOCON ALL to configure all the devices.3   -- . David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2002 12:53:00 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>r Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha CIl0 Message-ID: <qh4ri0naar.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  5 Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes: D > The "smarts" of the CI20 are on the IPA, which plugs into the KL10< > Ebus and Cbus, modules M3001, M3002, and M3003.  These areE > definitely not the same as any modules used on the CI780, since thehD > latter is an SBI device.  SBI is not even similar to the KL10 Ebus > and Cbus.i  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:F > No, the 'smarts' of the CI780/750/20 are in the box on the other endG > of the cables. Enough AMD29xx to make Tom Edison smile :) The SBI/CMIa8 > or E/Cbus connection is made with different card sets.  G I don't have any CI780 or CI750, or prints thereof, so they may well beoH as you describe.  But I do have a CI20 and its print set (MP01903), so IB can be quite certain that the CI20's "box on the other end" has no substantial smarts.o  F The CI20 consists of the IPA (M3001, M3002, and M3003) modules pluggedG into the KL10 I/O backplane (in place of an RH20), and the separate boxo' containing the L0100 and L0109 modules.c  H The M3001 contains a microcoded controller built using AMD29xx bit sliceH components.  The L0100 and L0109 have nothing of the sort; they are justF the low-level link hardware.  The smarts of the CI20 are definitely in  the IPA, which is KL10-specific.  F The NIA20 uses the same IPA (M3001-M3003) running different microcode,A with a single L0072 module in the separate box.  The L0072 is the % low-level link hardware for Ethernet.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:32:27 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VAXCLUSTER licenseO9 Message-ID: <fLDx8.23$jA5.698395@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>n  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKECNENAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:u, :This apparently no longer comes from CSA.    ;   I have not heard of this change.  Do you have a citation?c  H   I know that there have been discussions around the clustering licensesH   and the two educational programs; the free educational license program7   (www.openvmsedu.com) and the CSLG licensing program.).   :Anybody know how to get one?   J   Obvious: Buy it, or steal it?  I cannot recommend the latter, of course.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:36:52 -0700l# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: VAXCLUSTER licensev9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEDLENAA.tom@kednos.com>a  : It has been that way for some time, I had a license expire; in January and got new paks from CSA, but it didn't include < VAXCLUSTER, and when I asked them they told that If I wasn'tA aware but Compaq no longer made VAXes!  Fortunately, I got a copy F from another CSA member who still had a valid pak.  I don't have VAX's: for pleasure, it's because I have to support our customers? who still use them (aside from the fact that we haven't totallyd) migrated everything to Alpha (e.g. SCAN).)  = In short, I think it is a stupid policy from which Compaq not,A only does not derive any value, but probably detracts.  Who makesD silly decisions like that?  = I mean if VMSCLUSTER is part of CSA paks, why not VAXCLUSTER?t     >   -----Original Message-----= >   From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam] , >   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:32 PM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2# >   Subject: Re: VAXCLUSTER licensee >, >;B >   In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKECNENAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ >   Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:. >   :This apparently no longer comes from CSA. >=? >     I have not heard of this change.  Do you have a citation?s >tL >     I know that there have been discussions around the clustering licensesL >     and the two educational programs; the free educational license program; >     (www.openvmsedu.com) and the CSLG licensing program.)s >r! >   :Anybody know how to get one?D >5C >     Obvious: Buy it, or steal it?  I cannot recommend the latter,d >   of course. >4 >-4 >    ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>! >   -----------------------------.7 >         For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  >   www.openvms.compaq.com6 >    --------------------------- pure personal opinion >   --------------------------- 3 >      Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS EngineeringA >   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:45:21 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: RE: VAXCLUSTER licensew9 Message-ID: <BPEx8.31$LB5.746616@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEDLENAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:S; :It has been that way for some time, I had a license expiret< :in January and got new paks from CSA, but it didn't include= :VAXCLUSTER, and when I asked them they told that If I wasn'tk' :aware but Compaq no longer made VAXes!c  A   CSA is the descendent of a program that targeted the migration .C   of various applications to Alpha, and VAX software licenses were g@   accordingly never particularly represented within the program.  M :Fortunately, I got a copy from another CSA member who still had a valid pak.e  =   I really don't want to hear this any more than I expect you >   would want to hear of folks swapping PL/I compilers and PL/I   licenses around.  > :In short, I think it is a stupid policy from which Compaq notB :only does not derive any value, but probably detracts.  Who makes :silly decisions like that?   >   The folks that want folks to buy OpenVMS Alpha systems, and B   particularly given that the last new OpenVMS VAX system shipped    some time ago.  > :I mean if VMSCLUSTER is part of CSA paks, why not VAXCLUSTER?     I'll pass the question along.a  B   Most folks that have purchased a system get the base license andA   a NAS (NET-APP-SUP) license -- various of the NAS licenses have.)   cluster or cluster-client capabilities.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:57:30 -0700f# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>S Subject: RE: VAXCLUSTER license 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEEBENAA.tom@kednos.com>   > I take your point, but it is not quite the same thing.  One of: customers just bought several million dollars worth of VMSB servers, an order that would have gone elsewhere (IBM) but for the= availability of PL/I.  I wish we could get as much for a PL/It> license as you get for the VAXCLUSTER license.  In the present@ case it was simply one CSA member sharing a CSA pak with anotherA CSA member, of course, now that member is in the same pickle that< I was in a few months ago.       >   -----Original Message-----= >   From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]>+ >   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:45 PM  >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp# >   Subject: RE: VAXCLUSTER licenset >r >oB >   In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEDLENAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ >   Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:? >   :It has been that way for some time, I had a license expired@ >   :in January and got new paks from CSA, but it didn't includeA >   :VAXCLUSTER, and when I asked them they told that If I wasn'te+ >   :aware but Compaq no longer made VAXes!  >kD >     CSA is the descendent of a program that targeted the migrationF >     of various applications to Alpha, and VAX software licenses wereD >     accordingly never particularly represented within the program. >.@ >   :Fortunately, I got a copy from another CSA member who still >   had a valid pak. >-A >     I really don't want to hear this any more than I expect youbB >     would want to hear of folks swapping PL/I compilers and PL/I >     licenses around. > B >   :In short, I think it is a stupid policy from which Compaq notF >   :only does not derive any value, but probably detracts.  Who makes >   :silly decisions like that?e >dA >     The folks that want folks to buy OpenVMS Alpha systems, andsE >     particularly given that the last new OpenVMS VAX system shipped0 >     some time ago. >-B >   :I mean if VMSCLUSTER is part of CSA paks, why not VAXCLUSTER? >0# >     I'll pass the question along.m >.F >     Most folks that have purchased a system get the base license andE >     a NAS (NET-APP-SUP) license -- various of the NAS licenses havea- >     cluster or cluster-client capabilities.. >. >c4 >    ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>! >   ----------------------------- 7 >         For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.openvms.compaq.com*  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:25:14 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: VAXCLUSTER license-' Message-ID: <3CC779E9.60A2C8D3@fsi.net>0   Tom Linden wrote:m > < > It has been that way for some time, I had a license expire= > in January and got new paks from CSA, but it didn't include8> > VAXCLUSTER, and when I asked them they told that If I wasn'tC > aware but Compaq no longer made VAXes!  Fortunately, I got a copynH > from another CSA member who still had a valid pak.  I don't have VAX's< > for pleasure, it's because I have to support our customersA > who still use them (aside from the fact that we haven't totally + > migrated everything to Alpha (e.g. SCAN).d > ? > In short, I think it is a stupid policy from which Compaq not C > only does not derive any value, but probably detracts.  Who makess > silly decisions like that? > ? > I mean if VMSCLUSTER is part of CSA paks, why not VAXCLUSTER?t   I would pose that question to:   mark.gorham .at. compaq.coms  richard.marcello .at. compaq.com  G Also, perhaps Kerry can pick up the ball internally and try to find outn WTF.   --   David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:44:39 -0400S( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org, Message-ID: <3CC6FD17.1040007@tsoft-inc.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:s  I > On 24 Apr 2002, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>. > wrote: > @ >>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote: >> >>>"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >>>s9 >>>>This was one of those things I never expected, but...  >>>>J >>>>I've been approached for an account from one of the people running theO >>>>windows sucks website. In addition to wanting an account they're interested-5 >>>>in having something about VMS to go on the site. - >>>>% >>>I'm amazed no-one has bitten this.a >>>p! >>Me too, guess Sue must be busy.z >> > M > I've had a mail from one of the VMS Ambassadors pointing out that Sue is on H > holiday this week, he's also passed on the first post in the thread toF > Someone In Marketing. I'll wait and see if they can provide anything > suitable.n    N Oh no!  The kiss of death!  Wait on help in promoting VMS from Marketing, and  you'll wait forever.  N Some people tried to help in the past, and when MEF got involved, it appeared @ the involvement was solely to squash any outside 'interference'!  O Possibly some information we put together might be used for your purposes.  Be rN nice to see it did some good somewhere, since Compaq didn't have much use for K it.  I'll look at it and advise you on what I find.  Might be a day or two.a   Dave    K > In the meantime, borrowing bits from the FAQ, I've made a start which canjL > be seen at https://vmsbox.cjb.net/vms.html and I'd appreciate any comments
 > on this. >  >  > Doc. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:00:00 -0400n% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>U2 Subject: Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse- Message-ID: <3CC700B0.45A943C9@mail2.vcu.edu>n  H Actually, we have vt340's with mice holes in them.  I think they're used with GKS apps...  G My homebrew GKS (Graphics Kernel System) fired up mouse crosshairs whenfE used with a Kermit pc running windows and therefore had a mouse.  the G VMS s/w detected the mouse, and the display automagically compensated.  7 I suppose the vt430 with a dec mouse would do the same.:  	 Jim Agnewp   IdrEASY wrote: > J > Yes, I know. I thought that it maybe could work like mouse in Clipper or > Norton Commander under DOS.d > 2 > "Ade" <adrian.birkett@ic24.net> wrote in message< > news:z01x8.2748$Cp4.253301@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...H > > Off the top of my head, probably NO. VT terminals are character cellJ > > terminals, not windows based. Look for a DecWindows terminal (VXT?) orI > > something similar. I'm sure someone else can confirm or give a bettera > > explanation. > >  > > AdeR > >XF > > === If the world is a stage and we are merely actore, I WANT A NEW > > SCRIPTWRITER !!! === > >i4 > > "IdrEASY" <IdrEASY@bigfoot.com> wrote in message' > > news:aa21qt$f4c$1@brown.net4u.hr... 	 > > > Hi!n > > > L > > > Does it exist some "chemistry" for using PC mouse on VT terminals (I'd > > like$ > > > to use it with SMG$ routines)? > > >> > > >b > >r > >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:36:04 -0500>/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> 2 Subject: RE: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouseL Message-ID: <14987C0DA438094D91DAA6CED58D060A6E7760@dalntexch2.unitedad.com>  H The VT330's Plus also had a mouse , To access it you used Regis commands> and/or escape commands , at least I think it has been awhile.   -----Original Message----- . From: 	Jim Agnew [mailto:agnew@mail2.vcu.edu] ( Sent:	Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:00 PM To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma2 Subject:	Re: VT520 and VT420 terminal and PC mouse  H Actually, we have vt340's with mice holes in them.  I think they're used with GKS apps...  G My homebrew GKS (Graphics Kernel System) fired up mouse crosshairs wheniE used with a Kermit pc running windows and therefore had a mouse.  thelG VMS s/w detected the mouse, and the display automagically compensated. k7 I suppose the vt430 with a dec mouse would do the same.'  	 Jim Agnewf   IdrEASY wrote: > J > Yes, I know. I thought that it maybe could work like mouse in Clipper or > Norton Commander under DOS.y > 2 > "Ade" <adrian.birkett@ic24.net> wrote in message< > news:z01x8.2748$Cp4.253301@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...H > > Off the top of my head, probably NO. VT terminals are character cellJ > > terminals, not windows based. Look for a DecWindows terminal (VXT?) orI > > something similar. I'm sure someone else can confirm or give a betterm > > explanation. > >e > > Ade  > >eF > > === If the world is a stage and we are merely actore, I WANT A NEW > > SCRIPTWRITER !!! === > >i4 > > "IdrEASY" <IdrEASY@bigfoot.com> wrote in message' > > news:aa21qt$f4c$1@brown.net4u.hr...o	 > > > Hi!  > > >oL > > > Does it exist some "chemistry" for using PC mouse on VT terminals (I'd > > like$ > > > to use it with SMG$ routines)? > > >n > > >l > >  > >E   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:57:55 -0400f; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>() Subject: Re: where can I find older DECC?s$ Message-ID: <3cc70ed5$1@news.si.com>  + >Looking for DECC for Alpha older than 6.0,y, >preferrably 5.6, not sure if there were any >releases between the two. >-1 >Is there a site from which it can be downloaded?w >e4 >Alternatively, if someone has the savesets, perhaps >they could ftp them to me ?  H Anyone doing so would be breaking the law.  Only Compaq has the right to* sell you permission to use their software. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.combA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:13:04 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l) Subject: RE: where can I find older DECC? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEDOENAA.tom@kednos.com>e  : Well, Brian, its a good thing you aren't a lawyer, because? you don't know what you are talking about.  Its the License Pakr? not the software that is the discriminator.  I didn't ask for aeB license, that I already have, what I needed was a specific version of C.i   >   -----Original Message-----D >   From: Brian Tillman [mailto:tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com], >   Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:58 PM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu- >   Subject: Re: where can I find older DECC?a >H >,/ >   >Looking for DECC for Alpha older than 6.0,L0 >   >preferrably 5.6, not sure if there were any >   >releases between the two. >   >e5 >   >Is there a site from which it can be downloaded?s >   >e8 >   >Alternatively, if someone has the savesets, perhaps  >   >they could ftp them to me ? >iL >   Anyone doing so would be breaking the law.  Only Compaq has the right to. >   sell you permission to use their software. >   --E >   Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com E >   Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com A >   3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventX@ >   Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"< >          This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >. >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:09:53 +0200f2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)0 Subject: Re: X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display; Message-ID: <3cc70301.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>w  : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:% > X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displaye' > %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204g >oH > What can cause this error?  The security settings allow windows to be B > open, the node where the display should be running is otherwise - > reachable and the display is set correctly.   D Try DECW$EXAMPLE:ICO.EXE to the same X server. It usually has better error messages than the above.   cu,-   Martin -- -D                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de E  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/s8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.227 ************************