1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 26 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 230       Contents:' A guaranteed check, & downline for FREE # Re: ADA on Hobbyist CD? (VAXVMS072) 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family  Re: AST question Re: AST question bugcheck...arrgh) Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2 ) Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2 ) RE: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2 ) Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2  Re: Cache Performance P Call for papers for the SSGRR 2002s Conference in L`Aquila near Rome, Italy (Jul* Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache)* Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache)* Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache)* Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache) Re: Cluster Interconnects . comparison chart: pros and cons of WWW servers" DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug& Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug& Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug& Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug& Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug6 DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows Re: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: download VMS RE: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE Re: Format Drives  RE: Format Drives  RE: Format Drives - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!  Re: IBM and aviation Re: IBM and aviation0 Re: Inquirer even says Alpha in Itanium in 2005! Interesting Job post from Intel / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles> Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)? Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)  Re: Netscape and Mozilla
 Re: PC Worker 
 RE: PC Worker 
 Re: PC Worker ' process dies with the message RMS-F-BUG P Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F Re: Security question....  Re: Security question.... P Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no  merger!)E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 E Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64 & Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company' Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org  VMS, Bind and Active Directory" Re: VMS, Bind and Active Directory Re: web hosting  Re: web hosting ' Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?  Re: What have I got here& Re: WIN2000 printing to LPS17 problems  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:33:26 -0600 * From: "Patti Kulseth" <cpp@ndsupernet.com>0 Subject: A guaranteed check, & downline for FREE" Message-ID: <5074688@MVB.SAIC.COM>  , Get a GUARANTEED Check & Downline for FREE! J You are receiving this because we believe you to be a successful internet 7 entrepreneur and We would like to do business with You.   9 20 Year- Debt Free Company is offering GUARANTEED Checks!   O Hello, this is LaVern & Patti North Dakota, USA. We was skeptical 2 months ago        K when we got a similar email from a friend of mine, but we tried it anyway.     IT WORKED!    4 Fill out the short survey and They build a downline ( for you and you get a GUARANTEED CHECK! I CLICK HERE: <<<<http://www.netmailsolutions.com/internetmarketing101/>>>> J CLICK HERE: <<<<http://www.netmailsolutions.com/internetmarketing101/>>>>  (private invitation only)     M A successful friend of mine called to inform me that a group called Internet        Y Marketing101 had just launched an exclusive recruiting software that would revolutionize        N networking as we now know it. He asked me to simply go to the site answer the       S four questions and told me that it would cost me zero to do it AND they guaranteed        Q me a check. I am glad I trusted him because I would normally ignore a pitch like        P that cause its sounded to good to be true. I appeased him and answered the four       $ questions at the bottom of the site.  N I am grateful I did! I now have over 120 folks in my powerline in less than a       N week and growing like crazy. They were recruited and placed there by this new       Q software and the team. It blew my mind and I've already made money without doing        Q anything. Putting my info and taking the tour was all it took, see for yourself.        P Your PowerLine will grow like MAD! You can bet I will learn even more about the       R Internet Marketing 101. This incredible software has only been in use for 8 weeks!  H This is by far the best system I have seen in 12 years in this business!4 Now even those who have never made money before ARE!  Q Now that I've done my part by alerting you to this awesome opportunity, the rest         is up to you. L You owe it to yourself to go answer the four questions and see what happens 4 REGARDLESS OF WHAT PROGRAM YOU'RE PRESENTLY WORKING.  Q NOTE: The first in gets the most spill in a Powerline. Powerline means one under        Q the other down one line. So if 100 people join from this email and you are first        P you will have 99 people in your powerline, if your the 50th you will have 49,if       0 your the 90th you will have 10. So on and so on!  M So needless to say go fast, take the tour,fill out the survey, get your free        Q spot in the powerline and let this system go to work for you like it is has been         doing for all of us!  7 FOLKS THIS SYSTEM WORKS LIKE A CHARM AND COSTS NOTHING  @ SO PUT IT TO THE TEST! TRY IT AND YOU WILL BE AMAZED! I SURE AM!   Regards, LaVern & Patti   North Dakota, USA 4 Fill out the short survey and They build a downline ( for you and you get a GUARANTEED CHECK! I CLICK HERE: <<<<http://www.netmailsolutions.com/internetmarketing101/>>>> J CLICK HERE: <<<<http://www.netmailsolutions.com/internetmarketing101/>>>>  (private invitation only)      Internet Marketing 101               Removal 4 IF you are not interested in making money from home 2 with no selling and getting a GUARANTEED downline Z and a Guaranteed check, reply to removeplease@excite.com <mailto:removeplease@excite.com> # <<mailto:removeplease@excite.com>>  % <<<mailto:removeplease@excite.com>>>  ' <<<<mailto:removeplease@excite.com>>>>  - with "remove please" as your subject. Thanks   Patti Kulseth         O <<<http://www.cditelecom.com/427101>>> <---Inexpensive Flat rate long Distance     that   WORKS!  E <<<http://www.usakid.investrio.biz>>> <----WALL STREET GOES BALlISTIC      --------------------       --------------------         --------------------  C E-Mail sent using the Free Trial Version of WorldMerge, the fastest > and easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. For more6 information visit http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg   71254    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Apr 02 19:44:37 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) , Subject: Re: ADA on Hobbyist CD? (VAXVMS072)) Message-ID: <WanE57PlZTqe@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <CwMOQsVCngpj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: l > In article <3cc78649.7211248@news.nauticom.net>, tauberg@nauticom.no_spam_please.net (Jim Tauberg) writes: >> Hi,< >> 	The Application Licenses include ADA, but i don't see itH >> anywher on the Hobbyist CD (Vol:  VAXVMS072).  Does anyone know where
 >> to get it?  > E > Consolidated Distribution kits are often found for auction on eBay.  --   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:42:49 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.ukB Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family+ Message-ID: <aabav9$1q7$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <3CC86433.E4D8E12B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Peter Watkinson wrote:  > O >In a sense, HP would have been better off NOT buying Compaq (but somehow still B >convincing Compaq to ditch Alpha and put all its eggs in the IA64L >wastebasket), because this way, IA64 would be seen as more of a success andM >having some market leadership instead of just some HP proprietary chip which * >it will become once HP gobbles up Compaq.  J Except that precious few of Compaq's Alpha and HP's RA-RISC customers willO probably want to move from their current systems to IA64 once senior management 6 understands it is not going to be "Industry Standard".I If Compaq/HP try to force the issue by dropping Alpha and PA-RISC totally G before IA64 performance has substantially increased then they will just & force those customers to go elsewhere.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:30:58 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family$ Message-ID: <3CC95692.20808@sun.com>   Ed Wilts wrote:   @ > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message5 > news:gqzx8.8088$d17.330533@typhoon.austin.rr.com...  > ? >>   http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3125309.htm   >>   Mercury News | 04/23/2002 |: >>   AMD to announce Microsoft support for new chip family >> > I > And how is this relevant to VMS?  This is an obvious post for a Windows C > related newsgroup, and an obvious violation of the guidelines for I > comp.os.vms.  Not to mention an obvious copyright violation posting the @ > entire article to a newsgroup, very likely without permission. >  >     .../Ed >     = Compaqs decision to move OpenVMS from Alpha to IA64 was based = on the belief that IA64 would be the defacto 64 bit processor 6 hence the Industry Standard Platform BS being spouted.  < It would be the basis of a platform that allowed them to run Win64, Tru64 and OpenVMS.   8 Compaq also believed that IA64 performance would be good: enough for them to be able to persuade Alpha OpenVMS/Tru64( customers to move to IA64 OpenVMS/Tru64.  : Hammer and x86-64 is the wild card in the pack. Microsofts7 adoption of Hammer increases the likely hood that there 9 will be 2 commodity Intelish 64 bit architectures not the  one envisioned by Intel.  < Hammer will execute 32 bit x86 apps with performance that is> competitive or superior to the fastest current IA32 processors> if as people suspect Hammers 64 bit performance is good enough< to compete with IA64, Power and SPARC then this coupled with: MS's support may be the death knell for IA64. Without MS's8 support which Intel must of hoped for and lobbied MS for8 Hammer would have been a great 32 bit platform but would# have suffered in the 64 bit market.   9 If this happens then Compaq will have gone to the expense 9 and time of porting OpenVMS to the wrong 64bit processor, 9 IA64 and x86-64 are not compatible. Compaq will also have 8 developed a generation of high end servers based on IA64 which will also have no future.   7 Since this is at the heart of any discussions about the 7 future of OpenVMS it is a highly relevent subject to be  discussing in this group.      Regards    Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 07:34:22 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: AST question 3 Message-ID: <zLioN6bKcvkS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3CC867AA.65312D36@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > David Froble wrote: Q >> AST routines are not jobs, they are to signal an event, such as the completion 6 >> of async work.  Don't do your work in AST routines. > O > You might as well just use event flags then if you do not want to do any work  > inside of an AST.   G You're probably better served using I/O status blocks than event flags. @ Share one event flag among all your asynchronous events and give@ each event its own I/O status block.  Among other benefits, thisB gives you the ability to handle more than 32 possible asynchronous events.   E If you want to wait for an event, you wait on the event flag and then E poll the relevant status blocks to see if it's an event that you care < about.  If it's not one that you care about, you wait again.( Code carefully to avoid race conditions.  B ASTs can be useful in such a scheme.  For instance, if you want toA use $SETIMR, there is no I/O status block.  So you make one.  You @ set up a completion AST which treats the AST parameter as an I/OG status block and fills in the first word with SS$_NORMAL when it fires.   E If you wanted to save yourself some work sequentially polling the I/O B status blocks in main line code, you might consider having the ASTD routine queue up some information on a priority-ordered notification queue.  B Of course, I/O status blocks and notification data structures needF to be marked with PRAGMA(volatile) or your language equivalent to keep5 the compiler from making inappropriate optimizations.     ? Another kind of work that you can do in an AST is when you want @ to daisy-chain some sort of asynchronous I/O process.  Maybe you? want to read from some I/O device into a ring buffer in memory. A Every time one I/O completes you queue up another one.  (At least @ until the buffer fills).  No sense bothering main-line code withB the work of requeuing the next I/O in the normal case.  Just do it in the AST.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:42:27 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: AST question , Message-ID: <3CC97563.6000601@tsoft-inc.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:   ^ > In article <3CC867AA.65312D36@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >  >>David Froble wrote:  >>Q >>>AST routines are not jobs, they are to signal an event, such as the completion 6 >>>of async work.  Don't do your work in AST routines. >>> O >>You might as well just use event flags then if you do not want to do any work  >>inside of an AST.     3 Yes, that's another possibility, but less specific.   P I probably came across a bit too strongly on the subject of minimizing the work  done in an AST routine.   O My major concern when using ASTs is the possibility of blocking the delivery of O additional ASTs queued at the same level. I try to insure that anything done in M the AST routine does not involve any type of waiting, such as for a sync I/O.    > A > Another kind of work that you can do in an AST is when you want B > to daisy-chain some sort of asynchronous I/O process.  Maybe youA > want to read from some I/O device into a ring buffer in memory. C > Every time one I/O completes you queue up another one.  (At least B > until the buffer fills).  No sense bothering main-line code withD > the work of requeuing the next I/O in the normal case.  Just do it
 > in the AST.  >  > 	John Briggs >   Q Good example.  I'd definitely do the work in an AST routine if required data was  * available, which can be done several ways.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:40:49 +0100 - From: "Neal Hatchman" <johnny5_2@hotmail.com>  Subject: bugcheck...arrgh 3 Message-ID: <1019828488.978413@ernani.logica.co.uk>   , We are encountering satellite boot problems.  J Our system is setup as two clusters, each with a quorum of 2 machines. OneG cluster + satellites boots fine, the other we are encountering problems H with. The core cluster servers boot fine. Disks, especially system disksI appear to be mounted succesfully. The MSCP System parameters are setup to 9 reflect that MSCP should be loaded and serving all disks.   D Upon attempts to MOP boot the satellites, we encounter a bugcheck on 'Connecting to MSCP server'.  K Any suggestions on a way to diagnose the problem would be much appreciated.O  
 Neal Hatchman2   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:41:57 +0000 (UTC)F9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>u2 Subject: Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2- Message-ID: <aabatl$r7p$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>l   system@sendspamhere.org wrote:z : In article <P1Ai4$2rbH1s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: :>Versions:o :>	Alpha running VMS 7.2 :>	DEC C 6.0 :>	MMK from the Freeware V4 CD  + (Maybe I used some patches found elsewhere)2  J : You won't get far with DEC C 6.0.  Emacs relies on the C preprocessor toL : generate many of its build files.  Changes in the C preprocessor will makeL : this impossible to build.  Later versions of the C compiler V6.4 have some  1 I have compiled it on a VAX with DEC C 5.6, even.W  H Had to modify the generated build files (.mms and some more), but it was> not a task that was neither that difficult nor time-consuming.  
 -Roar Thronsi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:02:35 GMTy From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG 2 Subject: Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.20 Message-ID: <00A0D078.C7A41BE8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <aabatl$r7p$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>, Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:n >system@sendspamhere.org wrote: { >: In article <P1Ai4$2rbH1s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:D >:>Versions: >:>	Alpha running VMS 7.2D
 >:>	DEC C 6.0m >:>	MMK from the Freeware V4 CDh >i, >(Maybe I used some patches found elsewhere) >lK >: You won't get far with DEC C 6.0.  Emacs relies on the C preprocessor toeM >: generate many of its build files.  Changes in the C preprocessor will makeuM >: this impossible to build.  Later versions of the C compiler V6.4 have somee >p2 >I have compiled it on a VAX with DEC C 5.6, even. > I >Had to modify the generated build files (.mms and some more), but it was ? >not a task that was neither that difficult nor time-consuming.a >m >-Roar Throns    L With C 5.6 I believe it was still fairly simple.  C 5.7 or  C 6.0 are needed to really muck it up.E  I If the build were simply based on .MMS files instead of the brain-damageduI CONFIGURE.IN and assorted other .IN menace, emacs would be far easier to   build and debug build problems.M   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMy             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes6   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:57:43 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e2 Subject: RE: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.29 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEHPENAA.tom@kednos.com>m  8 Did you ever get a working copy of 21.1?  Maybe it would; fare better with 7.3-1.  I saw a note the other day (Fred?)y$ that it had additional unix support.   >   -----Original Message-----1 >   From: Roar Throns [mailto:roart@nvg.ntnu.no]i( >   Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:42 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-6 >   Subject: Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2 >0 > " >   system@sendspamhere.org wrote:9 >   : In article <P1Ai4$2rbH1s@eisner.encompasserve.org>,eH >   clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >   :>Versions:e >   :>	Alpha running VMS 7.2 >   :>	DEC C 6.0" >   :>	MMK from the Freeware V4 CD >o/ >   (Maybe I used some patches found elsewhere)b >r> >   : You won't get far with DEC C 6.0.  Emacs relies on the C >   preprocessor too9 >   : generate many of its build files.  Changes in the C  >   preprocessor will makeA >   : this impossible to build.  Later versions of the C compilere >   V6.4 have some >b5 >   I have compiled it on a VAX with DEC C 5.6, even.K > L >   Had to modify the generated build files (.mms and some more), but it wasB >   not a task that was neither that difficult nor time-consuming. >  >   -Roar Thronso >n   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:00:07 +0000 (UTC)e9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>e2 Subject: Re: Building Emacs 19.28 on Alpha VMS 7.2- Message-ID: <aabq1n$7kn$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>m  " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:: : Did you ever get a working copy of 21.1?  Maybe it would= : fare better with 7.3-1.  I saw a note the other day (Fred?)   ? 7.3-1 is not out yet, and I might not upgrade if it breaks RDB.eA And 7.3-1 will just have a bit more support (but each bit helps).u  & : that it had additional unix support.  ! I have patched it to be 21.2 now.vK (But I am still lacking response from the Emacs people about reintegration)   ' It works, but is picky about it's path.   ( I can use it for editing and some stuff.M But hitting tab while standing in a directory does not work, and neither doestC the builtin network support. (I might fix one of these things next) G Since I am on a daily only using a little subset of emacs, I get to seer a lot of new features.  1 Gnus crashes emacs (21) still, as it did with 19. 2 Gnus crashes also happens with Unix, I have heard.  
 -Roar Thronsn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:29:16 -0500f& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: Cache Performance8 Message-ID: <sfvicu8aefd5cssjk1nthq34qhv1fj6iar@4ax.com>  > Be aware that some caching products make it difficult - if notE impossible - to properly analyze the performance of your system.  And B even worse, make it almost impossible to model capacity for future growth.    This comes from experience.p  C One problem was  where the "cache" product "lied" to the system andpE adjusted (or, didn't adjust, it's kinda cloudy now) the real I/O rateoF to disks in order to make their product look better.  Now, if you wantF to make a mathematical model, you need to know the real number of I/OsF that hit the disk, not some conjured up number that includes I/Os that were satisfied by the cache.  D Another problem was that you couldn't set a fixed cache size, only aC maximum.  What happened is that the cache product would detect whenaE the free memory was getting close to 2x FREEGOAL and would reduce theb- size of the cache.  This causes two problems:E  ? 	1.  You can't rely on the cache being the desired size to helpt 		 I/O performance< 	2.  You can't rely on OpenVMS' memory management and tuning! 		techniques to help other areas.n  F In the case of the systems I was called in to work with, they had overD 6000 processes doing 4-GL type work - i.e., very memory hungry.  TheB problem was that they didn't give these processes enough memory toD prevent hard pagefaults for active processes (which were in the manyE thousands of hard faults per second).  Now, at any one time there waseD only about 12-16 active processes, so outswapping inactive processesE would have freed enough memory that could be allocated by  the activepF processes and prevent them from doing hard faults.  This would improve  performance for active processes  A However, in order to outswap, free memory must reach 2x FREEGOAL,-1 which the cache product prevented from happening.n   Bummer.T    A On 24 Apr 2002 15:31:47 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)n wrote:  n >"Bill Clark" <bclark@lrgh.org> wrote in message news:<A7Cx8.77882$ro5.6686945@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... >> greetings >>  < >>  you are correct, the problem was not 'RAXCo' per se. but< >>  as you point out, on a production system i didn't really: >>  have the luxury of making too fine a distinction - and: >>  since VMS and the third party stuff are 'given', RAXCo >>  had to go.> >>  and yes i agree - the performance increase was noticeable, >>  and sorely missed !t >>  = >>  i was not trying to impugn Perfect Cacher in my messages;A: >>  i simply didn't mean to go into too much detail either4 >>  way since that was not the goal of the exercise. >>  ; >>  i was able to work with a veryfine VMS type from RAXCo, 9 >>  one 'Jim Hibbetts' by name, who did in fact state the-; >>  problem you mentioned : the AST evidence pointed to theC> >>  probability that the application software could not handle, >>  the speed of the I/O's. what a world.... >>    >>  thanks for your responses... >> a >> a >> bclark@lrgh.org2 >> "Bill Clark" <bclark@lrgh.org> wrote in message? >> news:0VUw8.151859$K5.12832746@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...a >> > greetingsD >> >     have been troubled by cache performance, and have tried two >>  third-party E >> >     replacements. 1 - RAXCO Cacher was very fast but caused somee >> > applicationseN >> >     to 'cease',  2 - IOXpress was not appreciably faster than the OPENVms >> > nativei >> >     product.o >> >N >> >     any general opinions or suggestions on improving cache performance onN >> >     an Alpha 4100 server, OpenvVMS 7.1-2, 2.5 G memory, running 'routine'K >> >     data-processing applications (nothing fancy, no orbital mechanics,/ >> > graphics, etc). >> > >> >     thanksn >> > >> > bclark@lrgh.org >> > >r8 >nothing like perfectcache!  you will really miss it ...  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/CompaqM- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:40:09 +02000% From: ssgrr2002s@rti7020.etf.bg.ac.yuaY Subject: Call for papers for the SSGRR 2002s Conference in L`Aquila near Rome, Italy (Julp2 Message-ID: <200204261740.TAA05196@avala.yubc.net>  
 Dear Info,  F I have been appointed to serve as the General Chair of the Summer 20029 edition of the SSGRR series of international conferences,c7 and I would like to extend a special invitation to you.v  & The SSGRR-2002S (Summer) conference onG "Infrastructure for e-Business, e-Education, e-Science, and e-Medicine">C takes place in SSGRR (Scuola Superiore G. Reiss Romoli), the delux  I congress and educational center of the Telecom Italia Group of companies.   2 This is in L'Aquila near Rome, Italy, from July 29F (Monday) at 5pm (start of the Grand Opening) till August 4 (Sunday) at? 10am (departure of busses to the Rome airport Fiumicino and thet railway station Tiburtina).I  C Most of the past participants beleive that this was one of the mostcG interesting, most useful, and definitely THE most hospitable conferenced they ever attended.a  8 The SSGRR-2002S will be open by Jerome Friedman from MIT@ (laureate of the NOBEL PRIZE) and Travor Gruen-Kennedy of Citrix2 (listed by some sources, together with Bill Gates,0 as one of the world's TOP-25 contributors to the development of the Internet).i  / For details, see the WWW site of the conferences' (www.ssgrr.it/en/ssgrr2002s/index.htm).oF Among other things, this WWW site also includes the full-blown version< of the invitation letter-contract, with all relevant details, (www.ssgrr.it/en/ssgrr2002s/invitation.htm).  @ The soft deadline for you to decide if you are coming is May 25,E 2002 (in the worst case you should respond before May 31st). By that e: date the place for you is unconditionally reserved. After G that date, you will be accepted to the conference only if the existing w 240 places are not filled.  ? Before May 25, 2002, please send only the following: (a) TITLE,iF (b) AUTHORS, (c) AFFILIATION, (d) ABSTRACT, and (e) STATEMENT THAT YOUF WILL COME 100% (answers like "maybe" will be treated as NO answer from- you). The full paper is due on June 10, 2002.a  D The early registration price for the 6-day stay at SSGRR is EURO1200@ (if you represent an institution) or EURO1440 (if you come as anG individual). Coming without a paper costs you extra EURO600 or EURO720,gC respectively. Deadline for the early registration is June 30, 2002.-  F If you come with an accompanying person, the early registration extra F cost is EURO300, for 6 days of bed and breakfast, in an external hotelF (please note that the best external hotels are 4-star, and not nearly D as comfortable as the accomodation in the SSGRR complex). The SSGRR E complex includes only single-bed rooms, and therefore available only  1 to those who come without an accompanying person.e  G If you have any questions, please check the WWW site of the conference  E and especially the part entitled FAQ(Frequently Asked Questions). If nF you still have questions or there is something that we can do for you,% please write to Organizing Committee e. at ssgrr2002s@rti7020.etf.bg.ac.yu (preferred)B or if absolutely neccessary, to myself directly (vm@etf.bg.ac.yu).   Sincerely yours,   Professor V. M. Milutinovic,  General Chair of the SSGRR-2002S (galeb.etf.bg.ac.yu/~vm/)   E P.S. No matter if you will attend the SSGRR-2002S conference or not,  C please let us know if you like to be invited to the Winter edition e< of the year 2003 (SSGRR-2003W) to be held in the same place ; from January 6, 2003 at 5pm till January 12, 2003 at 10am. c Shall we reinvite you?  > Of course, if you wish not to receive again information about > the SSGRR conferences, please let us know, and we will remove  your name from our list.   IMPORTANT DETAILS:  , 1. We invite participants from three groups:? 	A: Researchers from the list of the most referenced scientistsn* 	B: VIPs of succesfull high-tech companies, 	C: Young talent (according to the criteria %          of the Organizing Committee)cE We try to maximaze the synergistic interraction among these 3 groups.e  B 2. Your presentation is 25 minutes, plus 5 minutes for discussion  and the change of speakers.o  H 3. The author of the LAST paper in the session is the session chairman, - so he/she is motivated to respect the timing.o7 The slots of the non-show-up papers are to be used for oA extra discussions. Moving of presentation slots is NOT permitted.u  D 4. Timing of the session is given on the WWW site of the conference.  A 5. More information on the SSGRR center is given on the WWW site h of the conference.  ' 6. Transportation related information,  @ on July 29 from Tiburtina station in Rome to SSGRR in L'Aquila, A and on August 4 from L'Aquila to Tiburtina station and Fiumicino oC airport is given in the conference WWW site (pay attention to FAQ).2  ? 7. Details of the food schedule, social program, and all other  B relevant details are also given on the WWW site of the conference.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:42:31 +0200 % From: "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch> 3 Subject: Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache) % Message-ID: <3cc904e8$1@news.post.ch>T  D "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag. news:<3CC8348C.11148340@firstdbasource.com>... > F > What does your httpd.conf file look like with regards to CGI. Do you" > have this defined as executable? > something like:o > / > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/apache$root/cgi-bin/"o >s$ > <Directory "/apache$root/cgi-bin"> >     AllowOverride None >     Options None >     Order allow,deny >     Allow from all > </Directory> > H > Make sure Apache$WWW has at least execute ACL on all directories above
 > cgi-bin. >M9 > What is the error that is returned on the failing page?u >r > --
 > Regards, > 9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comc > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)I > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)u >d   Hi Michael,A  " Thanks for the reply, my config is  : ScriptAlias /testweb/cgi-bin/ "/web_root/testweb/cgi-bin/"  ' <Directory "/web_root/testweb/cgi-bin">e5     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks ExecCGIe     AllowOverride all0     Order allow,deny     Allow from all </Directory>    J APACHE$WWW is the owner of the web_root directory (and hence all subdirs),* and of course it is the owner of the file.  : $  dir /owner/prot WEB_ROOT:[TESTWEB.CGI-BIN]DEBUG_CGI.EXE  $ Directory WEB_ROOT:[TESTWEB.CGI-BIN]  E DEBUG_CGI.EXE;1      [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]            (RWED,RWED,RE,)e   Total of 1 file.    G I get a page cannot be displayed error message. (I don't know the exact B message in English as I am accessing the pages through a German IE installation).    G finally, I think something is basically wrong with my CSWS installationh- because I cannot access the test cgi scripts,g  D eg. restarting the server using the original httpd.conf, I still get    8 [Fri Apr 26 08:57:15 2002] [error] (1)not owner: exec of, /apache$root/cgi-bin/test-cgi-vms.com failed       in the error_log. :(  
 Any ideas?   regards,   Andrew   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:53:14 GMTa+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> 3 Subject: Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache) 9 Message-ID: <eZcy8.21$Fu6.293930@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>)  L Try turning on access failure audits to determine on which object the access fails:  ( $ set audit/alarm/enable=access=fail=all $ reply/enable  = Then access the script. Do any alarms show up on your screen?s  
 Rick Barry( Compaq Secure Web Server Deveopment Team OpenVMS Systems Software Group Compaq Computer Corporationt
 Nashua, NH  0 "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch> wrote in message news:3cc904e8$1@news.post.ch...WF > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag0 > news:<3CC8348C.11148340@firstdbasource.com>... > >mH > > What does your httpd.conf file look like with regards to CGI. Do you$ > > have this defined as executable? > > something like:R > >u1 > > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/apache$root/cgi-bin/"e > >-& > > <Directory "/apache$root/cgi-bin"> > >     AllowOverride None > >     Options None > >     Order allow,deny > >     Allow from all > > </Directory> > >dJ > > Make sure Apache$WWW has at least execute ACL on all directories above > > cgi-bin. > >e; > > What is the error that is returned on the failing page?n > >: > > -- > > Regards, > >:; > > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 ; > > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comw > > Sr. Consultant > > 704-947-1089 (Office)s > > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)  > >u > 
 > Hi Michael,  >t$ > Thanks for the reply, my config is >o< > ScriptAlias /testweb/cgi-bin/ "/web_root/testweb/cgi-bin/" >e) > <Directory "/web_root/testweb/cgi-bin"> 7 >     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks ExecCGIs >     AllowOverride allt >     Order allow,deny >     Allow from all > </Directory> >n >iL > APACHE$WWW is the owner of the web_root directory (and hence all subdirs),, > and of course it is the owner of the file. >p< > $  dir /owner/prot WEB_ROOT:[TESTWEB.CGI-BIN]DEBUG_CGI.EXE > & > Directory WEB_ROOT:[TESTWEB.CGI-BIN] >tG > DEBUG_CGI.EXE;1      [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]            (RWED,RWED,RE,)b >s > Total of 1 file. >M >PI > I get a page cannot be displayed error message. (I don't know the exact D > message in English as I am accessing the pages through a German IE > installation). >  >iI > finally, I think something is basically wrong with my CSWS installation-/ > because I cannot access the test cgi scripts,  >0F > eg. restarting the server using the original httpd.conf, I still get >  >A: > [Fri Apr 26 08:57:15 2002] [error] (1)not owner: exec of. > /apache$root/cgi-bin/test-cgi-vms.com failed >2 >? >a > in the error_log. :( >i > Any ideas? >a
 > regards, >  > Andrew >  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:30:58 +0200m% From: "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch>o3 Subject: Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache) % Message-ID: <3cc964a3$1@news.post.ch>:   Hi Rick,  , Thanks, this helps me get a little futher :)   I getr  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-APR-2002 16:26:12.81  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on GDC1275 Security alarm (SECURITY) on GDC127, system id: 51599s1 Auditable event:          Detached process logout61 Event time:               26-APR-2002 16:26:12.81y" PID:                      26E0050E& Process name:             APACHE$00003$ Username:                 APACHE$WWW/ Process owner:            [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]dK Image name:               GDC127$DRB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE   8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-APR-2002 16:26:13.39  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on GDC1275 Security alarm (SECURITY) on GDC127, system id: 51599a0 Auditable event:          Detached process login1 Event time:               26-APR-2002 16:26:13.38t" PID:                      26E00626& Process name:             APACHE$00000$ Username:                 APACHE$WWW/ Process owner:            [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW] K Image name:               GDC127$DRB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEs    L and the loginout.exe is owned by SYSTEM, however the APACHE$WWW show be able	 to run itv    C $  dir/owner/prot GDC127$DRB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE   / Directory GDC127$DRB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]t  G LOGINOUT.EXE;1       [SYSTEM]                         (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)a   Total of 1 file.  A the question is why does APACHE$WWW want to be the owner and more 0 importantly, what is the safe way to solve this?   regards,   Andrew    < "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag3 news:eZcy8.21$Fu6.293930@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...mG > Try turning on access failure audits to determine on which object thed access > fails: >u* > $ set audit/alarm/enable=access=fail=all > $ reply/enable >i? > Then access the script. Do any alarms show up on your screen?  >r > Rick Barry* > Compaq Secure Web Server Deveopment Team  > OpenVMS Systems Software Group > Compaq Computer Corporation  > Nashua, NH >h2 > "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch> wrote in message! > news:3cc904e8$1@news.post.ch...mH > > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag2 > > news:<3CC8348C.11148340@firstdbasource.com>... > > >aJ > > > What does your httpd.conf file look like with regards to CGI. Do you& > > > have this defined as executable? > > > something like:e > > >i3 > > > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/apache$root/cgi-bin/"w > > > ( > > > <Directory "/apache$root/cgi-bin"> > > >     AllowOverride None > > >     Options None > > >     Order allow,deny > > >     Allow from all > > > </Directory> > > >dL > > > Make sure Apache$WWW has at least execute ACL on all directories above > > > cgi-bin. > > > = > > > What is the error that is returned on the failing page?m > > >r > > > -- > > > Regards, > > >h= > > > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163u= > > > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.come > > > Sr. Consultant > > > 704-947-1089 (Office)  > > > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)  > > >R > >L > > Hi Michael,  > > & > > Thanks for the reply, my config is > >E> > > ScriptAlias /testweb/cgi-bin/ "/web_root/testweb/cgi-bin/" > > + > > <Directory "/web_root/testweb/cgi-bin">e9 > >     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks ExecCGIh > >     AllowOverride allf > >     Order allow,deny > >     Allow from all > > </Directory> > >d > >4D > > APACHE$WWW is the owner of the web_root directory (and hence all	 subdirs), . > > and of course it is the owner of the file. > >u> > > $  dir /owner/prot WEB_ROOT:[TESTWEB.CGI-BIN]DEBUG_CGI.EXE > >a( > > Directory WEB_ROOT:[TESTWEB.CGI-BIN] > >aI > > DEBUG_CGI.EXE;1      [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]            (RWED,RWED,RE,)o > >a > > Total of 1 file. > >  > > K > > I get a page cannot be displayed error message. (I don't know the exacttF > > message in English as I am accessing the pages through a German IE > > installation). > >m > >uK > > finally, I think something is basically wrong with my CSWS installation 1 > > because I cannot access the test cgi scripts,s > >hH > > eg. restarting the server using the original httpd.conf, I still get > >a > >w< > > [Fri Apr 26 08:57:15 2002] [error] (1)not owner: exec of0 > > /apache$root/cgi-bin/test-cgi-vms.com failed > >n > >A > >p > > in the error_log. :( > >t > > Any ideas? > >t > > regards, > > 
 > > Andrew > >r > >m >n >o   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 11:11:55 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache) 3 Message-ID: <UEpaT+B8D9+V@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  M In article <3cc964a3$1@news.post.ch>, "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch> writes:h  : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-APR-2002 16:26:12.81  %%%%%%%%%%%* > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on GDC1277 > Security alarm (SECURITY) on GDC127, system id: 51599 3 > Auditable event:          Detached process logoutt  : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-APR-2002 16:26:13.39  %%%%%%%%%%%* > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on GDC1277 > Security alarm (SECURITY) on GDC127, system id: 51599h2 > Auditable event:          Detached process login  G Those are login and logout alarms.  They are not access failure audits.5  N > and the loginout.exe is owned by SYSTEM, however the APACHE$WWW show be able > to run ity  C > the question is why does APACHE$WWW want to be the owner and morea2 > importantly, what is the safe way to solve this?  ? Not only is that not safe, but those alarms do not indicate anyt8 problem having to do with the ownershop of LOGINOUT.EXE.  > > "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag5 > news:eZcy8.21$Fu6.293930@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...0H >> Try turning on access failure audits to determine on which object the > access	 >> fails:  >>+ >> $ set audit/alarm/enable=access=fail=allh >> $ reply/enable> >>@ >> Then access the script. Do any alarms show up on your screen?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:42:26 -0500n& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>" Subject: Re: Cluster Interconnects8 Message-ID: <hq0jcuo3q0v5f7mqbpg8ftm3qsbo2va0b0@4ax.com>   You mean like?   	SDA>  SHOW LANf      D On 24 Apr 2002 03:52:34 -0700, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) wrote:   >Guys, >,D >Is there any way to tell which type of interconnects are being usedE >within a cluster by interrogating VMS? I'm thinking SHO DEV, SYSGEN,S >etc.0 > 
 >Many Thanks,S
 >Issinoho.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqx- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)-   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:51:49 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e7 Subject: comparison chart: pros and cons of WWW serversc; Message-ID: <01KH12X67B068Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  E Does anyone have (or can anyone point me to) a GENERAL comparison of r= various HTTP servers for VMS (OSU, CSWS, WASD, Purveyor,...)?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:58:09 +0200o- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a+ Subject: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug ' Message-ID: <3CC924B2.9A7C18CA@Free.fr>e  - Your best drawing of a Bug, in one line only?l   I start:   _'!`_d     D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:44:21 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug , Message-ID: <3CC92F83.4D7231E2@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:c > / > Your best drawing of a Bug, in one line only?    _microsoft_n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:56:23 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGa/ Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bugn0 Message-ID: <00A0D077.EA3BF7C1@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3CC92F83.4D7231E2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Didier Morandi wrote: >> n0 >> Your best drawing of a Bug, in one line only? >e >_microsoft_   You beat me to the punchline.g   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM(            bJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:25:09 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>s/ Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bugn& Message-ID: <3CC93916.81DE9ED@Free.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:0 >  > Didier Morandi wrote:  > >i1 > > Your best drawing of a Bug, in one line only?  > 
 > _microsoft_    MORT DE RIRE !.....e   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:03:05 -0400a  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com/ Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Buga4 Message-ID: <C2256BA7.0046B182.00@jklh22.valmet.com>  > --0__=8tc0PNmzeuuclYhgYe2Sc7e8nVBtnKeyjbShbgx6WVb4BNSJ8psDBYFe* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlines                0 Didier.Morandi@free.fr on 04/26/2002 07:25:09 AM  ( Please respond to Didier.Morandi@free.fr   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comi/ cc:    (bcc: Norm Raphael/WOR/Automation/METSO)s0 Subject:  Re: DCL minute of the day: paint a Bug      > --0__=8tc0PNmzeuuclYhgYe2Sc7e8nVBtnKeyjbShbgx6WVb4BNSJ8psDBYFe, Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inlinec+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable        > JF Mezei wrote:R > >S > > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > >.3 > > > Your best drawing of a Bug, in one line only?n > >  > > _microsoft_t >  > MORT DE RIRE !.....i >t  , Moi, aussi, main je ne parle pas fran=E7ais!   > D. >t       =   @ --0__=8tc0PNmzeuuclYhgYe2Sc7e8nVBtnKeyjbShbgx6WVb4BNSJ8psDBYFe--   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 07:19:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)f? Subject: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windowso3 Message-ID: <IEnbX4I5irvC@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  @ DECUServe discussion from Richard Copeland quoted some notice ofC a survey, and for once I liked what I saw, both for privacy and forC question design:  H          <<< EISNER::DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHAPTERCRACKERBARREL.NOTE;1 >>>5                            -< ChapterCrackerBarrel >-uN ==============================================================================N Note 203.3             New stuff on Encompass web site                  3 of 3N EISNER::KILGALLEN "Larry Kilgallen, LJK Software"  18 lines  26-APR-2002 07:141                                 -< Well Done ! >-rN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------  8 > Please take the Encompass survey regarding the pending  > Hewlett-Packard/Compaq merger:. > http://www.encompassus.org/surveyintro.html    They are getting better:  M >>> Please note that instead of using cookies, your ip address will be loggedaJ >>> upon taking the survey. This is done for your convenience and privacy.  B Furthermore, I tried the survey and did not find any questions for# which there was no suitable choice.   > I was particularly impressed by the questions that offered the choice:f 	e3 	I am not a current or prospective Windows customere   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:14:05 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>eC Subject: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windowsi; Message-ID: <Ngdy8.57808$CH.9207@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>1  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:IEnbX4I5irvC@eisner.encompasserve.org... B > DECUServe discussion from Richard Copeland quoted some notice ofE > a survey, and for once I liked what I saw, both for privacy and forc > question design:  L Well, we tried! ;-} Many lessons learned from the Advocacy Tool, etc. Not toK mention the www.openvms.org surveys. We did away with evil cookies and wentd* to IP addresses to minimize double-voting.  , If you haven't taken the survey yet, it's at+ http://www.encompassus.org/surveyintro.html    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:36:02 +0000 (UTC)f From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: download VMSe+ Message-ID: <aabaii$1q7$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>l  c In article <Ajx7BvFZsEAu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: k >In article <3cc82bbb.16519531@news.cable.ntl.com>, peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) writes:O >rI >> I was wondering if it would be a good idea for Compaq (HP?) to let youEH >> download VMS through the internet. Particularly the Hobbyist version.H >> With Linux and BSD it so easy to download and install via FTP so longE >> as you have a fast connection. I don't think it would be neccesaryEI >> with windows as a 5min drive to the local PC world can pick up a copy.a; >> Could be a good idea to bring VMS into the 21st century.a > G >Please explain how to boot from the distribution medium for standalonet >backup.  I That would be one of the incentives for actually buying a CD distributioniH at least once. Generally older versions of the OS CD can be used to bootH the system for standalone backup - you don't have to have the CD for the% OS version you are currently running.)I Although of course more adventurous souls could always write their own CDt, after downloading the software from the net.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS MIddlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:31:28 GMTI5 From: peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)8 Subject: Re: download VMSc1 Message-ID: <3cc9360d.8413453@news.cable.ntl.com>s  5 On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 02:56:16 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Peter Watkinson wrote:a >>   >> Hi, >> oI >> I was wondering if it would be a good idea for Compaq (HP?) to let yourH >> download VMS through the internet. Particularly the Hobbyist version. >tH >Well, technically, there is no "Hobbyist version". VMS is VMS. The onlyF >determining factor is in the terms of the license and how you get it. >cH >> With Linux and BSD it so easy to download and install via FTP so longE >> as you have a fast connection. I don't think it would be neccesaryoI >> with windows as a 5min drive to the local PC world can pick up a copy. ; >> Could be a good idea to bring VMS into the 21st century.r >o> >I know some try to make a good argument against such an idea. >iG >At this stage, with VMS foundering, I believe it would be a good idea,rC >especially as part of massive turn-around effort to revive VMS andrG >restore it to the popularity and profitability it once enjoyed - whichd0 >is very unlikely to ever happen in my lifetime. >  >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >s) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:u  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/      - I've now found the compaq users group website    http://www.compaqusers.org/h  + which I found from the old UK Decus websitel   http://www.decus.org.uk   E And this seems like a significant improvement over the old site which E was a bit sparse. And you can register as a member online and then gor to the VMS hobbyist site ate  ! http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/r  A and register for the hobbyist version. So it doesn't seem as longh) winded and - mystical - as it used to be.h  B However i'm sure that making VMS available for download would be a@ good thing. Especially appealing to the Linux/ BSD crowd who areF always looking for new technologies especially if they are easy to get9 hold of (and particularly if they are not related to M$).d  C Is there anyone in Compaq/ Compaqusers that we could get in contacta- with regarding downloadable VMS - Sue, Terry, ) Kerry,http://www.compaqworkinggroup.org/?k8  I should think that if the merger goes ahead during theF reorganisation People might be a little to busy. But once that is over% and done with it might be considered.,  C With Linux to install by ftp you have to first download a couple of:D boot floppies install these and then you are setup to install the OSE at least using Alphabios I'm not sure about SRM. I guess with SRM you ? still have to boot the kernel image from a floppy disk and then2 install over ftp.r  E BTW I've got this alpha sitting here and it hasn't got a cdrom drive.nF I can pull one out of an old PC I've got but i'm not sure whether it'sF compatible with VMS. Seems like you need at least SCSI and then it canF be quite paricular. That's what made me think of internet install. Can VMS boot off IDE cdroms?   cheers,Y     Peter Watkinsond peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:29:15 GMT:( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: download VMS / Message-ID: <vKby8.144475$CH1.114893@sccrnsc02>W  J One of the things that's propelled the popularity of Linux is not that youJ can download it from the net, but that it's basically free and you can use@ it for any purpose, personal or commercial. While a downloadableK installation kit might make VMS more popular among the hobbyists (debatable J since you still need a "special" computer to run it - you can't just use aH discarded PC) I seriously doubt that it will make it more popular in theH commercial sector, which is where the profits (and the incentive) are...  	 Mark LevyT SMAP  B "Peter Watkinson" <peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message+ news:3cc9360d.8413453@news.cable.ntl.com...i7 > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 02:56:16 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"o  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >7 > >Peter Watkinson wrote:E > >> > >> Hi, > >>K > >> I was wondering if it would be a good idea for Compaq (HP?) to let youMJ > >> download VMS through the internet. Particularly the Hobbyist version. > >iJ > >Well, technically, there is no "Hobbyist version". VMS is VMS. The onlyH > >determining factor is in the terms of the license and how you get it. > >zJ > >> With Linux and BSD it so easy to download and install via FTP so longG > >> as you have a fast connection. I don't think it would be neccesaryhK > >> with windows as a 5min drive to the local PC world can pick up a copy.l= > >> Could be a good idea to bring VMS into the 21st century.  > >u@ > >I know some try to make a good argument against such an idea. > >mI > >At this stage, with VMS foundering, I believe it would be a good idea, E > >especially as part of massive turn-around effort to revive VMS and I > >restore it to the popularity and profitability it once enjoyed - whichr2 > >is very unlikely to ever happen in my lifetime. > >4 > >--d > >David J. Dachtera > >dba DJE Systems > >http://www.djesys.com/i > >t+ > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:i" > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >e >  > / > I've now found the compaq users group website- >/ > http://www.compaqusers.org/a >h- > which I found from the old UK Decus website  >  > http://www.decus.org.uk  >rG > And this seems like a significant improvement over the old site which G > was a bit sparse. And you can register as a member online and then go  > to the VMS hobbyist site ath >i# > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/a >nC > and register for the hobbyist version. So it doesn't seem as longt+ > winded and - mystical - as it used to be.  > D > However i'm sure that making VMS available for download would be aB > good thing. Especially appealing to the Linux/ BSD crowd who areH > always looking for new technologies especially if they are easy to get; > hold of (and particularly if they are not related to M$).s >bE > Is there anyone in Compaq/ Compaqusers that we could get in contact / > with regarding downloadable VMS - Sue, Terry,h+ > Kerry,http://www.compaqworkinggroup.org/?l: >  I should think that if the merger goes ahead during theH > reorganisation People might be a little to busy. But once that is over' > and done with it might be considered.w > E > With Linux to install by ftp you have to first download a couple ofBF > boot floppies install these and then you are setup to install the OSG > at least using Alphabios I'm not sure about SRM. I guess with SRM youaA > still have to boot the kernel image from a floppy disk and thenl > install over ftp.I >nG > BTW I've got this alpha sitting here and it hasn't got a cdrom drive.rH > I can pull one out of an old PC I've got but i'm not sure whether it'sH > compatible with VMS. Seems like you need at least SCSI and then it canH > be quite paricular. That's what made me think of internet install. Can > VMS boot off IDE cdroms? >l	 > cheers,  >w >  > Peter Watkinson: > peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:21:53 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: download VMS / Message-ID: <BDby8.144435$CH1.115334@sccrnsc02>-  J What makes you think that it would be a "simple" upgrade? An entire TCP/IPK stack with associated network interface drivers would have to be shoehorned L into the ROM. I'm willing to bet that there isn't room on a lot of the older$ VAXen for even a trimmed-down stack.  J Let me understand this. The most likely target customer for a downloadableD installation package is the hobbyist. You're expecting HPaq to spendI not-insignificant money to upgrade the firmware in systems that have beenpK long discontinued for customers who bought their machine used or rescued it K from a dumpster, and who won't be paying *anything* for software, hardware,C( or support? Where is the profit in that?    	 Mark Levyh SMAo  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CC872B6.E35DE09F@videotron.ca... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:J > > Please explain how to boot from the distribution medium for standalone > > backup.H >WJ > Humm, perhaps a simple ROM upgrade would allow all older vaxes to send a BOOTP?I > request to a specific address that would be at HP ? So you'd be bootinge( > standalone backup over the internet... >.& > then, youd'd issue a command such asD > BACKUP/IMAGE ftp://ftp.service.hp.com/vms/vaxvms073.b/save dka200: >q >pK > Seriously though, while you have a good point for initila loading of VMS,t onceL > you have it on a machine, getting the upgrade kits from the internet would inI > fact be very good. I think that HP could view this as a quality controle issue-H > with all the hobbysist geeks finding little errors here and there thus2 > resulting in a more robust VMS operating system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:36:19 GMT.5 From: peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)  Subject: Re: download VMSs2 Message-ID: <3cc9499c.13420359@news.cable.ntl.com>  D On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:29:15 GMT, "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> wrote:  K >One of the things that's propelled the popularity of Linux is not that youhK >can download it from the net, but that it's basically free and you can usetA >it for any purpose, personal or commercial. While a downloadable-L >installation kit might make VMS more popular among the hobbyists (debatableK >since you still need a "special" computer to run it - you can't just use aoI >discarded PC) I seriously doubt that it will make it more popular in thecI >commercial sector, which is where the profits (and the incentive) are...f > 
 >Mark Levy >SMA >f    A aha but linux is not free. Especially if you buy it from redhat. -    C >"Peter Watkinson" <peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com> wrote in messager, >news:3cc9360d.8413453@news.cable.ntl.com...8 >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 02:56:16 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"! >> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:n >> >> >Peter Watkinson wrote: >> >>d	 >> >> Hi,  >> >>-L >> >> I was wondering if it would be a good idea for Compaq (HP?) to let youK >> >> download VMS through the internet. Particularly the Hobbyist version.  >> >K >> >Well, technically, there is no "Hobbyist version". VMS is VMS. The only I >> >determining factor is in the terms of the license and how you get it.- >> >K >> >> With Linux and BSD it so easy to download and install via FTP so longaH >> >> as you have a fast connection. I don't think it would be neccesaryL >> >> with windows as a 5min drive to the local PC world can pick up a copy.> >> >> Could be a good idea to bring VMS into the 21st century. >> >A >> >I know some try to make a good argument against such an idea.e >> >J >> >At this stage, with VMS foundering, I believe it would be a good idea,F >> >especially as part of massive turn-around effort to revive VMS andJ >> >restore it to the popularity and profitability it once enjoyed - which3 >> >is very unlikely to ever happen in my lifetime.- >> > >> >-- >> >David J. Dachtera- >> >dba DJE Systemse >> >http://www.djesys.com/ >> >, >> >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# >> >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y >> >> >>0 >> I've now found the compaq users group website >> >> http://www.compaqusers.org/ >>. >> which I found from the old UK Decus website >> >> http://www.decus.org.uk >>H >> And this seems like a significant improvement over the old site whichH >> was a bit sparse. And you can register as a member online and then go >> to the VMS hobbyist site at >>$ >> http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ >>D >> and register for the hobbyist version. So it doesn't seem as long, >> winded and - mystical - as it used to be. >>E >> However i'm sure that making VMS available for download would be a.C >> good thing. Especially appealing to the Linux/ BSD crowd who are.I >> always looking for new technologies especially if they are easy to getn< >> hold of (and particularly if they are not related to M$). >>F >> Is there anyone in Compaq/ Compaqusers that we could get in contact0 >> with regarding downloadable VMS - Sue, Terry,, >> Kerry,http://www.compaqworkinggroup.org/?; >>  I should think that if the merger goes ahead during theMI >> reorganisation People might be a little to busy. But once that is overn( >> and done with it might be considered. >>F >> With Linux to install by ftp you have to first download a couple ofG >> boot floppies install these and then you are setup to install the OSeH >> at least using Alphabios I'm not sure about SRM. I guess with SRM youB >> still have to boot the kernel image from a floppy disk and then >> install over ftp. >>H >> BTW I've got this alpha sitting here and it hasn't got a cdrom drive.I >> I can pull one out of an old PC I've got but i'm not sure whether it'syI >> compatible with VMS. Seems like you need at least SCSI and then it cangI >> be quite paricular. That's what made me think of internet install. Can> >> VMS boot off IDE cdroms?  >>
 >> cheers, >> >> >> Peter Watkinson  >> peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com >= >=   Peter Watkinson= peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:59:46 GMTr( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: download VMS . Message-ID: <6bcy8.134093$G72.81616@sccrnsc01>  B "Peter Watkinson" <peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message, news:3cc9499c.13420359@news.cable.ntl.com...B > aha but linux is not free. Especially if you buy it from redhat.  G Redhat (and others) take a free distribution and package it for sale to H those who want a more commercialized version. Redhat's packaged Linux isK also _considerably_ cheaper than VMS, to the point where the cost is nearlyr irrelevant. My point stands...  	 Mark Levye SMAs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:26:02 -0400b5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o Subject: Re: download VMSW, Message-ID: <aabodq$8pc4$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  F Well, it *is* possible John, but what is needed is to make it the normK (without jumping through any special hoops), and to put it into a structuresI that makes it visible and easy to do.  For instance, you can download the1K multi-media layered product from the openvms.compaq.com website (search foriJ mmov).  But that would not have happened if we had not gone out of our way to arrange it.      = John Reagan wrote in message <3CC8872B.4030207@compaq.com>...c  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >lL >> Many of the people in this newsgroup including myself have argued for theL >> layered products to be made available for download from the web for ages.L >> Unfortunately, with a few welcome exceptions such as the C++ kits, Compaq has  >> always resisted.a >sD >Yeah that bothers me also.  I've asked many times about letting youB >download the Pascal kit from the Pascal web page.  But it is likeD >talking in a sound-proof room, I ask but hear nothing.  Many of theG >compiler teams have placed kits online for ftp-download in response tooH >bug reports, etc. but I do find it odd that we don't/can't get past theF >bureaucracy to do it publically.  I think the C++ kits are "under theK >radar" and if they find out (whoever 'they' are), the kits will disappear.  >--w >John Reagan( >Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:05:12 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n Subject: RE: download VMS 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEIBENAA.tom@kednos.com>   E Not sure we are comparing equals here.  I for one am not particularly F interested in the multi-media stuff, but access to various versions ofF compilers and OSs would be useful.  Also I'm not sure what you mean byD arranging.  Does that mean having a series of management meetings so= somebody can copy the savesets to an anonymous ftp directory?l  F I'll treat you to a round at spyglass if you can populate the download
 sites. :-)   >   -----Original Message-----> >   From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]( >   Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 7:26 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC >   Subject: Re: download VMS- >- >-J >   Well, it *is* possible John, but what is needed is to make it the normC >   (without jumping through any special hoops), and to put it intoe >   a structure0@ >   that makes it visible and easy to do.  For instance, you can >   download theC >   multi-media layered product from the openvms.compaq.com website  >   (search for>C >   mmov).  But that would not have happened if we had not gone outo >   of our way >   to arrange it. >t >a >cA >   John Reagan wrote in message <3CC8872B.4030207@compaq.com>...H$ >   >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >   >rA >   >> Many of the people in this newsgroup including myself havec >   argued for theB >   >> layered products to be made available for download from the >   web for ages.nC >   >> Unfortunately, with a few welcome exceptions such as the C++v >   kits, Compaq >   has  >   >> always resisted.d >   >oH >   >Yeah that bothers me also.  I've asked many times about letting youF >   >download the Pascal kit from the Pascal web page.  But it is likeH >   >talking in a sound-proof room, I ask but hear nothing.  Many of theK >   >compiler teams have placed kits online for ftp-download in response torL >   >bug reports, etc. but I do find it odd that we don't/can't get past theJ >   >bureaucracy to do it publically.  I think the C++ kits are "under the? >   >radar" and if they find out (whoever 'they' are), the kitsw >   will disappear./ >   >--' >   >John Reagan, >   >Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader >   >o >h >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 09:10:03 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)r Subject: Re: download VMSh< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204260810.d668014@posting.google.com>  6 For crying out loud - go BUY IT! it costs less than a . M$ O/S distro. The kit is a lot more sexy too.  = Layered product kit or source listings, well that costs a biti- more - go get your work to buy it for you :-)a   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 01:43:57 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l Subject: Re: EDT or EVEn3 Message-ID: <NqP6AQu9wNF7@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  \ In article <3CC8EC01.DB472760@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:@ > has anyone ever converted from EDT to TPU/EVE as main editor ? > 2 > Was the conversion painful ? What prompted it ?  > E > I was born on EVE/TPU. When I took my first VMS course, the teacher M > recommended that we start with TPU instead of EDT because TPU was newer ands > the shape of things to come.   > P > It was not really difficult to move from previous editors I had used on DOS orH > on IBM mainframes to TPU. But I do not look forwards to moving to UnixO > editors. And I have never really liked the text editors on the mac or windowsi0 > because they just don't cut it as well as TPU. > J > However' I am curious about folks who were brought up on EDT. Seems thatR > conversions to TPU are rare and that those stick to EDT. (same applies to TECO).    ; 	I suppose it has a lot to do with what you "grew up" with.wD 	Shoot, people live in North Dakota and that is a pretty featureless> 	state in many places and I am sure many love their home state 	of North Dakota.-  A 	Likewise, people do Unix.  The first time I encountered vi after.C 	spending years on EVE/TPU, I couldn't believe how horrible it was.vA 	As I lamented before, I spent a while trying to get folks to do eB 	EMACS (me included of course) but surrounded by "power vi" users,B 	no one was interested, I grew bored and gave up.  Fortunately, we> 	could NFS mount our build environment back to VMS and I could: 	use EVE to do editing (except when doiong Unix support of	 	course).   ; 	But yeah... when you think about why Unix sucks, vi has tou@ 	be at the top of the list... that and that pesky rm -r command, 	HA!   				Robm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:01:42 +0200k% From: "IdrEASY" <idreasy@bigfoot.com>r Subject: Re: EDT or EVE * Message-ID: <aaatvo$6d0g$1@as201.hinet.hr>  " Try ATG, it is EVE and EDT in one.- "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messagey* news:bmDx8.303$W3.10890@typhoon.bart.nl...C > If you are new to VMS, start with EVE because it is based on TPU.bI > TPU allows you to write your own routines for it, so it may behave moren! > in line with what you're doing.eE > Once you're used to KED, err, EDIT and have learned all the strange  numerich/ > keypad functions then there's no way back :-)t >l >n@ > Sandeep Yelwatkar <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message+ > news:uce00t53bua477@corp.supernews.com...a > > HiJ > >     I am new to the OpenVMS system. Just wondering which is the better; > > editor EVE or EDT. Would like to know your suggesstion.  > >C
 > > Thanks > > Sandeepi > >S > >  > >1 >c >u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:50:34 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: EDT or EVEp8 Message-ID: <00A0D04D.3824112E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3CC8EC01.DB472760@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  ? >has anyone ever converted from EDT to TPU/EVE as main editor ?d  K Sure.  (I started on RSX-11 and VMS at the same time; 1985.  I'd been usingVK a line-mode editor on ModComp (which I actually reimplemented in Fortran souL I could add more features; I particularly enjoyed doing the macro processor)" for about five years before that.)   >t >Was the conversion painful ?   - No, not really.  SET KEYPAD EDT helped a lot.v     >What prompted it ?   L DECterms with displays longer than 24 lines.  EDT couldn't do anything with  'em, EVE could.y     -- Alan     O ===============================================================================.0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056dM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210wO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 02:37:08 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)e Subject: Re: EDT or EVE = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204260137.6c6898c0@posting.google.com>w  s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0204251536.76b07dfe@posting.google.com>... m > Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<3CC827BD.6181EC1E@firstdbasource.com>...l > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:t > > > P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) wrote in message news:<55f85d77.0204250058.1e93f258@posting.google.com>... > > > >sJ > > > > I never did work out why EDT does not have LEARN where as KED did.8 >                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^2 >                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^  H Sheesh, you have to be really careful how you word things in this NG :-)  > EDT does *not* *have* LEARN - EDT has DEFINE KEY (aka CTRL-K).   Command: LEARN      ^ Unrecognized command  F DEFINE KEY in EDT (even though much more along the lines of LEARN thanH DEFINE KEY is in EVE) gives you less WYSIWYG functionality and thereforeD differs enough for it not to be called LEARN. Yes, it does achieve a
 similar goal.r  E I defined LEARN as how it functions in KED (the PDP-11 Keypad EDitor)gC which I have used under the RT-11 operating system. LEARN also fitsaB this description under EVE (CONTROL-R replaces GOLD-S and EVE lets? you define multiple different learn sequences and nest them). IoE express surprise that at least the KED LEARN functionality is missingr	 from EDT.   C I'm not here to argue which editor is better - (although the recordaC size issue can be a show stopper for EDT - especially when you havetE users creating files using PC products over Advanced Server shares) -eE as I use both and would be very upset if EDT was removed. My originalh9 posting suggested the new user learn *both* (or TECO :-).,  ; > > > Why doesn't EDT's Ctrl/K count as a LEARN equivalent?r  H Because you can't see on the screen the results on the text to be editedD as you make up your macro sequence. Using LEARN, you are essentiallyD *testing* and *editing* your macro sequence as you are composing it.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 03:08:53 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)l Subject: Re: EDT or EVEd= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0204260208.6b9ffd77@posting.google.com>   k Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<3CC815EF.DB0DD10E@firstdbasource.com>...  > # > one last comment on EVE features:/ > < > command: what line         !tells you what line you are onH > command: set cursor bound  !make the cursor behave the same as in EDT.  E I must say that I like to simply press enter without giving a commandyG to get the line number in EDT - better than "No command given." in EVE.iI However, knowing the last line number is useful in the "what line" outputu of EVE.a  ( So many "trade-offs" between the two :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:27:47 -0400e1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>c Subject: Re: EDT or EVEs2 Message-ID: <3CC939B3.5DEFDC48@firstdbasource.com>   JF Mezei wrote:2 > @ > has anyone ever converted from EDT to TPU/EVE as main editor ? > 1 > Was the conversion painful ? What prompted it ?t > E > I was born on EVE/TPU. When I took my first VMS course, the teacheroM > recommended that we start with TPU instead of EDT because TPU was newer and  > the shape of things to come. > P > It was not really difficult to move from previous editors I had used on DOS orH > on IBM mainframes to TPU. But I do not look forwards to moving to UnixO > editors. And I have never really liked the text editors on the mac or windowso0 > because they just don't cut it as well as TPU. > J > However' I am curious about folks who were brought up on EDT. Seems thatR > conversions to TPU are rare and that those stick to EDT. (same applies to TECO).  F I used EDT for YEARS, then one day I saw some things I liked better inF EVE/TPU. But as we stated when dealing with certain file types, one isH better than the other. MY main editor has been EVE - with EDT keypad and the occasionaly use of EDT.a -- ? Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163h7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:56:48 +0200h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o Subject: Re: EDT or EVE ' Message-ID: <3CC94080.3E799916@aaa.com>    A side note about EDT vs. TPU.  > When implementing a BATCH proc that used the MIME.EXE utility,6 I had to set my MAIL profile to use EDT instead of the6 default TPU. Leaving it with the deafult gave an error: when the proc run. The (brain-dead b.t.w) MIME utiliy uses; the some parts of the MAIL profile. Today I a freeware MIMEt< tool instead that works much better in BATCH (MPACK/MUNPACK)  < Aside from that, most of the time I use EDT, not because EDT; is "better", but because I'm used to EDT from my RSX times.>0 Sometimes I use TPU (such as when reclen > 256).  @ It's like asking "do you prefer coffe or th ?" Well, it depends on the time of day.../   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:29:34 -0400t5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: EDT or EVE , Message-ID: <aaboke$8ohm$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   >>C >>>"Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in messagea+ news:<uce00t53bua477@corp.supernews.com>...a >> >>>oL >>>You will want to add TPU SET(MOUSE,OFF) to your F$TRNLNM("EVE$INIT") fileH >>>before you even look at using it, otherwise you will be driven %$^@!#K >>>*INSANE* by not being able to cut and paste using the mouse - who's idean >>>was this anyway?o >>>dE >>>I never did work out why EDT does not have LEARN where as KED did.w >>  = I'll take half the blame, and give half the blame to Barry T.   A I invented and implemented the mechanism to allow direct terminaldL application interaction with the mouse, and the TPU folks decided to use it.H I think there may have been more extensive things they wanted to do, butJ never did.  In the end, the choice of default by the TPU folks ended up... unfortunate.   _Fredg   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:40:26 +0300d* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il> Subject: Re: EDT or EVE * Message-ID: <3CC974EA.3090608@tzora.co.il>   > H >>KED was the predecessor of EDT on RT-11 and RSX. RSTS/E never had KED " >>but did have EDT V1.0 and later. >>D RSTS not only _had_ KED, (running under the RT-11 emulator) but IIRC  ? there was a bug that allowed an unpriviledged (i.e. not [1,*]) s  C user using KED to read ACCT.SYS with all the plaintext passwords...      Mike -- C  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.>? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*=E Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337-C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%".E ---------------------------------------------------------------------c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:50:52 +0300r* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il> Subject: Re: EDT or EVE.* Message-ID: <3CC9775C.1000605@tzora.co.il>  H After having a few dozen keys and macros defined on EDT, (inluding some G fairly exotic stuff like right-to-left text entry and 7 to 8 character eC set conversions) all it took was a few hours - OK then, a day - to eF re-program a EDT$INI file to a TPU$INI file. After debugging saved it B all in a TPU$SECTION, and my fingers did'nt have to learn any new H automatic stuff. I've carried more-or-less the same TPU$SECTION file to E every job for the past more-years-than-I-care-to-recall. (IIRC about ., 1600 block file, but I'm not at work now...)  L The primary motive to move to TPU was the ease of "LEARN" compared to CTRL/K   Mike   JF Mezei wrote:r  @ > has anyone ever converted from EDT to TPU/EVE as main editor ? > 2 > Was the conversion painful ? What prompted it ?  > E > I was born on EVE/TPU. When I took my first VMS course, the teacheriM > recommended that we start with TPU instead of EDT because TPU was newer ands > the shape of things to come. > > P > It was not really difficult to move from previous editors I had used on DOS orH > on IBM mainframes to TPU. But I do not look forwards to moving to UnixO > editors. And I have never really liked the text editors on the mac or windowsp0 > because they just don't cut it as well as TPU. > J > However' I am curious about folks who were brought up on EDT. Seems thatR > conversions to TPU are rare and that those stick to EDT. (same applies to TECO). >      -- r  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.e? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*tE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337lC    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"aE ---------------------------------------------------------------------m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:05:20 -0600o0 From: "teaspoon" <tyson_bloom@NOSPAMhotmail.com> Subject: Re: Format Drives/ Message-ID: <ucir59tn9ld621@corp.supernews.com>b  G Is there a way to get it to go back to the Max boot instead of the Min?I  % >Among the many ways is the following  >s
 >$ MCR SYSGENn >USE CURRENT >SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"  >WRITE CURRENT >EXITa
 .>$ REBOOT   teaspoon wrote:c >y > How do you boot minimumo >  > Thanks
 > Teaspoon >p4 > "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message% > news:3CC5AFD3.4DE761FF@rdrop.com...m > > teaspoon wrote:. > > >.I > > > I am about to give away a Microvax 3400 and have to wipe out all ofo the ? > > > data.  Using VMS 5.2 I think.  How would I go about this?J > >b > > $ HELP INIT /ERASE > >i! > > > Remove NOSPAM to send emailr > >a1 > > Too much work.  Ask here, get an answer here.t   --C Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY - - jilly@clarityconnect.com - Brett Bodine fanr+ - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com - since 1975 or soc+ - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:26:49 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>< Subject: RE: Format Drives9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEICENAA.tom@kednos.com>M  3        SYSGEN>  SET/STARTUP SYS$SYSTEM:XSTARTUP.COMv  F            This command assigns SYS$SYSTEM:XSTARTUP.COM as the current6            site-independent startup command procedure.  2 $p1 = f$edit(f$getsyi("STARTUP_P1"),"TRIM,UPCASE")  $if p1 .eqs. "" then p1 = "FULL"   >   -----Original Message-----9 >   From: teaspoon [mailto:tyson_bloom@NOSPAMhotmail.com]g( >   Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:05 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi >   Subject: Re: Format Drives >    >   K >   Is there a way to get it to go back to the Max boot instead of the Min?  >   ) >   >Among the many ways is the followings >   >b >   >$ MCR SYSGEN  >   >USE CURRENT >   >SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"c >   >WRITE CURRENT	 >   >EXITi >   ..>$ REBOOTr >    >   teaspoon wrote:n >   >e >   > How do you boot minimum, >   >t >   > Thanks >   > Teaspoon >   > 8 >   > "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message) >   > news:3CC5AFD3.4DE761FF@rdrop.com...- >   > > teaspoon wrote:2	 >   > > >3C >   > > > I am about to give away a Microvax 3400 and have to wipe l >   out all of >   thefC >   > > > data.  Using VMS 5.2 I think.  How would I go about this?  >   > >! >   > > $ HELP INIT /ERASE >   > >.% >   > > > Remove NOSPAM to send emaile >   > >c5 >   > > Too much work.  Ask here, get an answer here.- >    >   --G >   Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYA1 >   - jilly@clarityconnect.com - Brett Bodine fan./ >   - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com - since 1975 or sog/ >   - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -  >    >      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:35:41 -0400i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Format Drives- Message-ID: <0033000061686855000002L052*@MHS>d   =0ASet STARTUP_P1 back to ""   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETi% Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:32 AMsB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: Format Drives    H Is there a way to get it to go back to the Max boot instead of the Min?=    % >Among the many ways is the following  >e
 >$ MCR SYSGENt >USE CURRENT >SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"i >WRITE CURRENT >EXITo	 >$ REBOOTa   teaspoon wrote:  >o > How do you boot minimumo >  > Thanks
 > Teaspoon >T4 > "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message% > news:3CC5AFD3.4DE761FF@rdrop.com...O > > teaspoon wrote:  > > >oH > > > I am about to give away a Microvax 3400 and have to wipe out all = of thet? > > > data.  Using VMS 5.2 I think.  How would I go about this?y > >  > > $ HELP INIT /ERASE > >a! > > > Remove NOSPAM to send email. > > 1 > > Too much work.  Ask here, get an answer here.    --C Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY,- - jilly@clarityconnect.com - Brett Bodine fanE+ - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com - since 1975 or soy, - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:49:22 +0100nT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!& Message-ID: <3CC930B2.4030606@sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:a  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > C >>Sun F6800 24 x 750 Mhz CPU's ~25% faster than a 32 CPU GS320 with0 >>731 Mhz CPU's. >> > N > OK, now for the really difficult question, which, if you can aswer it, would4 > give much more credibility to the above statement: > O > Andrew, in your opinion, are there some areas/applications where in the above > > configs, the widlfire alpha will outperform the Sun config ? >     @ Floating point apps running in some sort of parallel environmentC would be a candidate. Of course if the app is embarasingly paralleleC then the GS boxes would not be the right choice anyway you would beoE better off with ES45's, which is what the majority of Alpha HPC sitesY
 are using.    M > If you can do a self-critique of Sparc to show where it may be weak against < > GS, it would add much more credibility to your statements. >     + Alphas FP performance has always been good.r   Regardsn Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:56:26 -0500-& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!8 Message-ID: <q3uicukpcksmik6h54psm80t9ktiudpsde@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:28:44 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyD3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:o   >c >w
 >jlsue wrote:a >nH >> On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:13:56 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >> <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>   >> e> >>>If you seriously think that resorting to ad-hominem attacks; >>>when you have lost the argument is "wacking" me then youn: >>>have been doing a bit to much overtime and need to rest" >>>in a dark quiet room for a bit. >>>o >>  + >> Oh Ho!  Even more pot and kettle awards.W1 >> You're racking them in pretty quick this year.  >n > 1 >If you have something usefull to say then say itu >otherwise don't bother. >=   Hey, my point to you EXACTLY!=  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:44:52 GMTy' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>X Subject: Re: IBM and aviationw$ Message-ID: <3cc8f761$1@zfree.co.nz>  J IBM is a loyal company, to its customer base and towards its own products.J Example: IBM supports several o/s-es on the s/390 platform. One of them isJ VSE; it's old and IBM rather would just sell MVS, err, OS/390. A couple ofN years ago a customer at a user session asked how long IBM was going to supportK the OS. The VP for VSE engineering answered without hesitation "well beyond< your retirement age".cJ This happened nearly at the same time when Bob Palmer was sending his very confused messages about VMS. .I I'm sure that IBM makes money on VSE, but I doubt VSE even comes close to8, VMS in terms of turnover, let alone revenue.  H Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM: the company takes good care of its/ customers. It's a lesson long forgotten at DEC.^. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:, >This is meant to put things in perspective. > I >While Digital was (not really) bragging about Alpha's super performance,  IBMEF >still kept its monopoly on high end mainframe systems such as airlineJ >reservation systems. IBM has been able to grow its 1960s 360 architecture toE >keep up with the Sparcs and Alphas of today. Not bad, one might say.  >uM >And now, guess who is making news again ? IBM. IBM has developped agreementseM >with a few airports (notably Schiphol) for eye-retina identification systemseM >for airport security. They have developped self-service kiosks for passengerrH >check-in, and just announced a deal with Air Canada to provide wirelessK >wearable computers used by airline employee to check-in passengers who areLN >waiting in line. (I think a couple of US airlines already have such systems). > I >I find it interesting that IBM doesn't need to brag about its technologye andaL >still wins the really big/important contracts even though it has a "legacy"I >image, while all the vendors such as Compaq that claim to be the world'so* >best/fastest doesn't get those contracts. >*J >I think that one big difference is that IBM is able to deliver a solution thatL >includes not just the hardware, not just the OS, not just support, but alsoN >the applications. (for instance, those airline check-in kiosks that interface >to the airline's mainframes). > J >I don't think that Compaq (and likely HP also) are even anywhere near IBM withF >this. Digital, at one point in time was near because it had a serious6 >applications and database portfolio. But not anymore. >nK >Is HP any different from Dell or IBM when it comes to buying shrinkwrappedeL >systems with Oracle applications, or SAP, or payroll ? Can HP actually sellM >you the whole solution, or do you still buy the system from HP, the database  >from Oracle and SAP from SAP ?e >eH >Remember that 180 day "commitment" from Capellas where he said he would focusrM >on applicatiosn and support in order to attempt to catch up to IBM ? PerhapsmH >he had the right idea. However, in hindsight, I have absolutely no idea why heK >did that, except perhaps only to keep is job and support the sagging stock-, >until he and Carly announced their wedding. >2D >Seems to me that Carly wants to focus only on industry standard andH >shrinkwrapped solutions. Does anyone know if HP might start to actually >develop integrated solutions ?        http://www.zfree.co.nz    .   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:01:16 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: IBM and aviationc, Message-ID: <3CC96BBC.7070203@tsoft-inc.com>   Hans Vlems wrote:P  L > IBM is a loyal company, to its customer base and towards its own products.L > Example: IBM supports several o/s-es on the s/390 platform. One of them isL > VSE; it's old and IBM rather would just sell MVS, err, OS/390. A couple ofP > years ago a customer at a user session asked how long IBM was going to supportM > the OS. The VP for VSE engineering answered without hesitation "well beyondt > your retirement age". L > This happened nearly at the same time when Bob Palmer was sending his very > confused messages about VMS. oK > I'm sure that IBM makes money on VSE, but I doubt VSE even comes close toa. > VMS in terms of turnover, let alone revenue.    O Wonder how it compares to MPE?  One major difference, IBM hasn't cancelled VSE.f    J > Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM: the company takes good care of its1 > customers. It's a lesson long forgotten at DEC.u  P This perception is very old.  It's still very valid.  Companies are people, and O people will usually look out for themselves before the company.  If buying IBM =P insures your job and retirement, guess what decision the person (vs company) is  going to make.  Q There appear to be some people today worrying about that job and retirement that  P did Digital/Compaq/s job for them and marketed Alpha to their company.  Digital O and Compaq did not 'take good care of these customers'.  One important part of (B taking good care of customers is keeping the commitments you make.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:12:14 +0100(% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer even says Alpha in Itanium in 2005!c8 Message-ID: <ne2icucrelu8bv8vtgit2am8fsbfelq197@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:52:51 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:     > I >That techies like Cutler would prefer an approach like Hammer's does not-I >surprise me, but that the corporation as a whole would be swayed by suchiH >considerations does.  Of course, there have been persistent rumors that  @ The XBOX could be the key here. I suspect that, even if only forF marketing reasons initially, MS would love to have a 64-bit XBOX.. NowD this would have to run existing 32 bit XBOX code fast or it would beC pointless. Quite clearly an IA64 wouldn't cut it even if they couldgA keep the cost down. Hammer would fit the bill as presumably woulda Yamhill.    J >Unless Intel has secretly been continuing the EV8 effort right along, tooL >much time almost certainly *has* passed.  It's been 10 months now since EV8  E There as been occasional speculation by the IT press that some of thepC Alpha engineers Intel acquired have not found themselves doing whatt@ they expected. The speculation I have seen is that some might beD working on Yamhill related stuff. It would be amusing indeed if they3 are actually working on EV8 but somehow I doubt it.f       -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:02:40 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>t( Subject: Interesting Job post from Intel2 Message-ID: <3CC98830.A09E5F48@firstdbasource.com>  < http://appzone.intel.com/jobs/uRequisition.asp?Posting=28590* Basically, let's move everyone to Itanium.   -- S Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com1 Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)Y 704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 12:50:37 -00005 From: "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org>h8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!6 Message-ID: <20020426125037.15706.qmail@gacracker.org>  5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway. 8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  6 On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote:* >Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:E >: I told you J.F. and Bill "the genius" Todd that Alpha will show up I >: not to far down the road ... no doubt Itanium 3 will be the beginningsr >: of Alpha EV8! R  K Just where in your latest quoted article does it make any mention of Alpha?w  G BTW, since you have a surplus of punctuation marks why don't you donate 7 them to another newsgroup where people have a shortage?      >Bob, kindly get over yourself.uB >If you want to poke fun at these two gentlemen, do it via e-mail.  D I for one certainly would not want to encourage that sort of action.     Doc. -- r6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neto   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:44:55 +0100 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!& Message-ID: <3CC967E7.2080101@sun.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:W  7 > NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.k: > No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.: > -------------------------------------------------------- > 8 > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote: > + >>Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: F >>: I told you J.F. and Bill "the genius" Todd that Alpha will show upJ >>: not to far down the road ... no doubt Itanium 3 will be the beginnings >>: of Alpha EV8!  >> > M > Just where in your latest quoted article does it make any mention of Alpha?e > I > BTW, since you have a surplus of punctuation marks why don't you donates9 > them to another newsgroup where people have a shortage?o >  >  >   >>Bob, kindly get over yourself.C >>If you want to poke fun at these two gentlemen, do it via e-mail.- >> > F > I for one certainly would not want to encourage that sort of action. >       : It seems unfair to single JF and bill out for this kind of7 SPAM attack, nearly everyone else that has responded to ; Bobs posts on the Alpha IA64 subject seems to disagree withj him as well.  4 The best place for Bob may well be Hyde Park Corner.   Regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 08:32:07 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204260732.13bfc5c7@posting.google.com>   R mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote in message news:<aaaj4f$eht$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>...+ > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:EF > : I told you J.F. and Bill "the genius" Todd that Alpha will show upJ > : not to far down the road ... no doubt Itanium 3 will be the beginnings > : of Alpha EV8!  >   > Bob, kindly get over yourself.C > If you want to poke fun at these two gentlemen, do it via e-mail.  >  > D.  0 if you can't take it, then don't dish it out ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:20:54 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!+ Message-ID: <qfey8.18247$vX.3264@rwcrnsc53>   # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"g= <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in messaget  news:3CC967E7.2080101@sun.com...   >-< > It seems unfair to single JF and bill out for this kind of9 > SPAM attack, nearly everyone else that has responded to0= > Bobs posts on the Alpha IA64 subject seems to disagree withc > him as well. >s6 > The best place for Bob may well be Hyde Park Corner. >M  J ;-} although I'm not sure that many of our non-UK denizens will divine the meaning of that assertion.  L CPQ and INTC have been pretty quiet on the specifics of their joint venture.G If I were to guess, I'd suggest that INTC might be able to leverage thehK on-chip switching technology from Alpha EV7. I wouldn't expect this to showtJ up in the Madison timeframe, though... Madison very likely was a done deal@ (from a design standpoint) before the "Alphacide" was announced.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Apr 2002 07:39:04 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troublesb0 Message-ID: <aab06o$sgh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  - In article <aaahot$co8@web.eng.baileynm.com>, ' Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:e( >In article <aa1pfr$199$1@gw.retro.com>,6 >George William Herbert <gherbert@gw.retro.com> wrote:* >> Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:5 >> >Sander Vesik  <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote: K >> >> AFAIK, nobody is making a productised "FreeBSD desktop" - so no, this38 >> >> just doesn't happen (yes, it is imho unfortunate). >a# >> >Don't you think MacOS X counts?d >gC >> Without getting into a flamewar... I know one of the OS X people D >> pretty well, and several others less well, and the fact that OS XD >> isn't really FreeBSD but really a FreeBSD userland wrapped around@ >> what used to be NeXT's Mach has been a major problem area for$ >> porting and compatability issues. >aF >Fair enough, but on any photo where both BSD-derived UNIX systems andA >NT are in the same picture, you need a micrometer to measure the K >distance between FreeBSD, BSDI, Lites, Darwin, or MacOS, or even NeXTSTeP,. >Tru64, or SunOS 4.r > G >Heck, most people would need to adjust their glasses to tell Linux andP! >Unixware from FreeBSD or Darwin.i  C Agreed, but with the niggle that you mean the current MacOS and nottA the original series (and the same for NeXTSTeP, I believe, though;% the change was very early with that).j  D And, of course, from the viewpoint of MVS or the capability systems,@ only the sharp-sighted can distinguish Windows NT from those :-)     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679r   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Apr 2002 11:59:14 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles0- Message-ID: <aabfei$k80@web.eng.baileynm.com>a  0 In article <aab06o$sgh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,) Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote: / > In article <aaahot$co8@web.eng.baileynm.com>,u) > Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote: I > >Heck, most people would need to adjust their glasses to tell Linux and # > >Unixware from FreeBSD or Darwin.n  E > Agreed, but with the niggle that you mean the current MacOS and notbC > the original series (and the same for NeXTSTeP, I believe, thoughr' > the change was very early with that).r  J We did get to this fork of the thread when I said "Don't you think MacOS X	 counts?".I  F > And, of course, from the viewpoint of MVS or the capability systems,B > only the sharp-sighted can distinguish Windows NT from those :-)  H One generally doesn't have clueless "experts" walking in and telling you7 to replace your UNIX-based mailserver with MVS, though.f   -- q+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."uL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Apr 2002 11:55:38 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)G Subject: Re: learning how to use a computer (was: Re: Itanium troubles)o- Message-ID: <aabf7q$k04@web.eng.baileynm.com>u  , In article <3CC8DB80.CC138560@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: N > For instance, you may not want automatic hyphenation in a text style, but inP > isolated cases, will want to manually hypehate a very long word to more evenlyM > fill the previous line in a narrow column. Reflowing the text may require a-) > review of its presentation on the page.:  H It would probably be best to avoid the combination of narrow columns andH manual hyphenation in a style guide, unless one has a significant budget/ allocated to proofreading and final production.+  P > Similarly, if you have a quote in large letters in a box on the page, you must: > ensure that the extracted text appears on the same page.  M Any markup tool that can handle footnotes even halfway well should be able totF handle this case, for most purposes. There are cases where this is notI acceptable, and the author is handling both content and presentation, butc= about the only ones I can think of are art books and ad copy.n  I > Granted, the above applies more to magazines than to technical manuals.e  J And I suspect that in most such cases the author of a piece is not the oneL handling the final layout and presentation. In most cases the author doesn'tB even get to see the final layout until they get their review copy.  N Certainly, the only time I ever have has been in amateur press, simply because" they HAD no production department.   -- e+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."DL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:03:01 -0700   From: "Jim Mehl" <mehl@ihot.com>H Subject: Re: markup vs wysiwyg (was: Re: learning how to use a computer)$ Message-ID: <3cc95db8@news.ihot.com>  G > markup derivative happens to be that one of the guys that added it toeA > script in the very early '70s had a last name that started witheD > M. script had been developed in the mid-60s and was something of aE > "dot" command derivative (like runoff). G, M, & L then came up withcF > this other structure and added it to script as an alternative to theH > dot command stuff. Generalized Markup Language ...  came about becauseD > of their initials G, M, & L. GML evolved into ISO standard as SGMLD > (standard) in the late '70s (and then later things like HTML, XML,G > etc) . Script, GML, SGML at the Cambrigdge Science Center, 4th floor,E > 545 tech sq.  B Right, Lynn. GML came from Charles Goldfarb, Ed Mosher and Raymond@ Lorie. Hence the GML. Of course Raymond went on to do some great" things with relational data bases. Jim Mehl   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:15:34 +0100 (MET)B9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ! Subject: Re: Netscape and Mozillat; Message-ID: <01KH0VD3T0HE8ZE7FO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>f  ? > In this particular case, it sounds more like a poorly writtenl > piece of software. > C > If you need to let it use >200MB of RAM to work well, my questionp@ > is what the heck is is actually doing with all that memory? DoB > you know how much that is? It is a LOT. You can probably fit theE > entire managers section (and maybe the general section, too) of thelG > full VMS documentation set using plain uncompressed ASCII, along withlE > the diagrams at screen resolution, into 200MB. (And I think many ofs" > us know just how big that is...)  G Think of it this way.  All of VMS(!) is a few hundred MB.  Compare the  5 functionality of all of VMS to that of a web browser!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:36:58 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r Subject: Re: PC Worker, Message-ID: <aabp2d$8p5s$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  I The "Pepsi Syndrome" was a spoof on SNL during Jimmy Carter's presidency. J Where a cup of Pepsi is dumped on a KB of a nuclear reactor control...  ofE course, Jimmy was a nuclear engineer, and the spoof was pretty funny.r      B WILLIAM WEBB wrote in message <0033000061422658000002L082*@MHS>...  4 I've 'eard stow-ries 'bout LK201s, I think they wuz,  2 which, after an occurrence of "The Pepsi Syndrome"  ? (a phrase wot became popular when the film "The China Syndrome"a was released),   were run through a dishwasher--a  7     I can only guess that they were top rack only :) :)m>     I dare not ponder whether the drying heat option was used.  ; and then allowed to thoroughly dry out before redeployment.o  = Said LK201s purportedly then functioned perfectly afterwards.h   WWWEbb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs' Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 3:27 PMiB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: PC Worker     William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:- > > > my personal fav. was the keyboard with pineapple juice in it >@ >f <snip>  F I used to be the guy that showed up with the new keyboard. I have seenB coffee, coke, ink, staples/paper clips (these 2 cause some bizarreF behavior) water (from leaky roof), Ketchup.. to name just a few... oh, those were the days....t  D I fixed the Ketchup (some kid used a squirt bottle to fill it up) byH washing it out with hot water and letting it dry for a couple of days... it still worked... -- Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163i7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comp Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)P 704-236-4377 (Mobile)=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:21:08 -0400E* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: PC Worker- Message-ID: <0033000061684732000002L022*@MHS>t  3 =0AI'll stand corrected as soon as I quit laughing.f   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETm% Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:12 AMCB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: PC Worker    H The "Pepsi Syndrome" was a spoof on SNL during Jimmy Carter's presidenc= y.H Where a cup of Pepsi is dumped on a KB of a nuclear reactor control... =  ofoE course, Jimmy was a nuclear engineer, and the spoof was pretty funny.t      B WILLIAM WEBB wrote in message <0033000061422658000002L082*@MHS>...  4 I've 'eard stow-ries 'bout LK201s, I think they wuz,  2 which, after an occurrence of "The Pepsi Syndrome"  ? (a phrase wot became popular when the film "The China Syndrome"u was released),   were run through a dishwasher--r  7     I can only guess that they were top rack only :) :)i>     I dare not ponder whether the drying heat option was used.  ; and then allowed to thoroughly dry out before redeployment.>  = Said LK201s purportedly then functioned perfectly afterwards.c   WWWEbb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs' Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 3:27 PMrB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: PC Worker     William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:X >u> > my personal fav. was the keyboard with pineapple juice in it >s >  <snip>  F I used to be the guy that showed up with the new keyboard. I have seenB coffee, coke, ink, staples/paper clips (these 2 cause some bizarreF behavior) water (from leaky roof), Ketchup.. to name just a few... oh, those were the days....u  D I fixed the Ketchup (some kid used a squirt bottle to fill it up) byH washing it out with hot water and letting it dry for a couple of days..= .' it still worked... -- Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163o7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)T 704-236-4377 (Mobile)=3D=i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:43:29 GMTn From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGw Subject: Re: PC Worker0 Message-ID: <00A0D0A0.053EEE78@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <aabp2d$8p5s$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:J >The "Pepsi Syndrome" was a spoof on SNL during Jimmy Carter's presidency.K >Where a cup of Pepsi is dumped on a KB of a nuclear reactor control...  ofiF >course, Jimmy was a nuclear engineer, and the spoof was pretty funny.    J ... and here I thought that the humor was that Jimmy Carter was president.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM3             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 04:49:35 -0700- From: mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) 0 Subject: process dies with the message RMS-F-BUG= Message-ID: <adb15ffe.0204260349.1bb7d9dd@posting.google.com>-   Hi,-  H  I had two processes running on my system. One process will read messageD  form a queue( for suppose say R_QUEUE) and passes a subset of thoseG  messages to the second process through a different queue(say W_QUEUE).r@  Second process will receive those messages and write them to an  indexed file in proper format.   N  Now the problem is secong process is dying after some time with the following  error.t  8  %RMS-F-BUG,fatal RMS condition (000000),process deleted:  -RMS-F-BUG,fatal RMS condition (7FF62600),process deleted  M  when in look into the error log it's giving an error in RESETK function when >  performed purge on the file into which second process writes.  H  can anyone help to get the exact cause of this problem? If possible can,  any one recommend some fix to this problem?    Thanks in advance,.
  Mahesh Jetti-   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 13:02:24 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>hY Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F 6 Message-ID: <20020426130224.16043.qmail@gacracker.org>  H On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   <snip>  F You're not the only one getting tired of some of Bob's more ridiculousJ statements. I'm getting tired of "Alpha will live ...". Those damn elipsis  are starting to really annoy me.  B Then there's this "Purveyor is wonderful" thing. Hello? Isn't it a/ discontinued product? Who is going to buy that?b     Doc. -- l6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 08:43:28 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Fu= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204260743.71e46a76@posting.google.com>n  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KGZKRZZ3DI8Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>... > K > > why do that when they already have the Alpha engineers in tact, the EV8lK > > blueprints in hand ... that is a waste of more time and money!  And didBH > > anyone ever wonder why there is a beta 3 release of windows 2000 for > > Alpha? - > K > Even though it has been stated many times by many people who should know lH > that ALPHA will not live on in Itanium in any meaningful sense of the K > word, neither according to current plans nor to any yet-to-be-made plans vF > (i.e. such plans will not be made), you still continue to post such : > fantasies.  why not put your money where your mouth is?  > D > For example, why not publicly state that if VMS systems running onH > Itanium do not have "ALPHA inside" in any meaningful sense of the termI > by, say, 2010, you will buy me such a system of my choice at that time.nH > And if one of my current ALPHA images runs on a VMS system running on H > Itanium without binary translation, then I will buy you the system of  > your choice? > I > For anyone from outside the group following this thread, your comments  E > make it seem like this group is totally clueless.  I now know what 3   disclaimer:aI The opinions expressed by myself on this board do not necessarily reflectoG those of other self appointed vms experts on this board.  I am the only G poster on this board who is totally clueless ... all other posters knoweE all the future holds for vms, and should not be confused with myself.e  > now you will not be held suspect for being deemed clueless ...   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:16:36 +0000 (UTC)n From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: Re: Security question....+ Message-ID: <aabcuk$2ob$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>s  f In article <3CC878B0.57A99F09@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: >Vic Mendham wrote:y >>  ? >> We're having a discussion at work about log file security...eG >> Can a user (system or root) manipulate a logfile without anyone everd! >> knowing about it. If so how???nG >> I don't think so cause the revised date on the file would be changedGE >> and it should indicate the user who last accessed the file. If thebH >> file is open, you can't edit it or copy it as this is a file access ( >> sharing ) violation.o >>  G >> Anyone have any thoughts on the matter. Our security guy is freakingt	 >> out...G >gH >First, if you can't trust a person with system or system privs like theF >system admin, dba and network admin, then you might as well power offE >the box and go home because that is the only security you will have.n >tG >Anyone with sufficient privs can get around everything except the fileoE >sharing violation. (I supposse you could come up with something that.I >could.. but) if the file has acls to prevent all but a select few accesseG >to those log files they can't even do that.  You can lock a VMS systemuF >down so tight that normal users can't even get to the files let alone >try and change them.r >--   K I read this as a hacker having gained root access and trying to cover theiri tracks.s  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    	 >Regards,s >c8 >Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #2611638 >First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com >Sr. Consultants >704-947-1089 (Office) >704-236-4377 (Mobile) >F   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:11:26 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: Re: Security question....+ Message-ID: <aabcku$2ob$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>)  i In article <8b51ed8.0204251254.1d2efcd9@posting.google.com>, vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) writes:g= >We're having a discussion at work about log file security...nE >Can a user (system or root) manipulate a logfile without anyone everr >knowing about it. If so how??? E >I don't think so cause the revised date on the file would be changedrC >and it should indicate the user who last accessed the file. If the F >file is open, you can't edit it or copy it as this is a file access ( >sharing ) violation.@ >.E >Anyone have any thoughts on the matter. Our security guy is freaking  >out...a  G If a hacker has system or root access then they can do almost anything..M If the logfile is local to the hacked system then yes they can manipulate it.nJ Logging programs can be stopped and restarted. Timestamps can be altered. J Programs, such as ls or dir,  which display timestamps can be replaced etcM According to how much work the hacker (or rootkit writer) went to in order to K conceal their access there will probably be a few clues left on the system aM showing that something has happened. But if that is just say a spurious line eL in the middle of the logfile or something similar then it will probably not  be noticed.o    N This is why most Unix security manuals suggest that syslog is used to redirect log files to other systems.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:14:44 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no  merger!) 8 Message-ID: <51vicugmhn3rvaabbq1ao26trto3h2a98q@4ax.com>  , On Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:46:29 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:u   >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:I >> Apart from the infamous Mr Harrison, everybody here seems to be of the8J >> opinion that VMS is one of the finest operating systems ever developed, > O >In all fairness to "Andy boy", I have rarely seen unjustified criticism of VMS O >itself at the technical level. He has rightly criticised its marketing and the J >uncertainty which reigns about its (lack of) future.  And he has recentlyM >criticised Wildfire performance claims. But I don't recall intensive battleso+ >against VMS at the technical level by him.u >hN >It is pretty hard for him to criticise VMS's clustering for instance since it1 >is still ahead of everyone else (including Sun).i  E Well, there are a few of these.  One of the most notable involved hisuC claims of VMSclusters and their usability.  He tried to use  a veryoD small, hand-picked dataset to try to prove that the generality about VMSclusters was false.  F Pointing out the error of this kind analysis, even including extensive? *successful* experience in the area of highly-available cluster ; configurations never produced a positive response from him.a  F And his "tecnical" claims about the horrible performance of "wildfire"? has also never been born out by anything more than a handful ofa carefully-selected data points.n  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:14:34 +0100iT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64& Message-ID: <3CC952BA.7000101@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:    > the augur wrote in message ... >  >  > nothing of interest- >  > B >>And stop using the lame "person posts without a real name" crap,G >>nobody cares to get personal with the likes of you, just present youru* >>facts and get on with your life--sheesh! >> >> > H > Let's try and guess which poster has decided that he needs to hide his > identity.h >     F Again you seem to be more concerned about the way the message is being delivered and not the content.  D So what if he/she is not prepared to provide their identity. It does= not alter tha fact that the points they raise are valid ones.   B What would you prefer anonymous posted facts or pure fiction being" posted by identified individuals ?   RegardsM Andrew Harrisond   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:44:33 -0400h5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> N Subject: Re: The Digital 7-year plan - from 1997 to 2004 - from Alpha to IA-64, Message-ID: <aabpgf$8peh$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  I Actually given the specifics of the complaints the individual makes, only I their real name would provide proper context to even respond.  Especially K since they seem to have specific complaints about the composition, age, andd4 competence of the individual engineers on the floor.  I If they are venting their spleen out of ignorance, that is one thing.  If L they are a disgruntled ex-employee, that is another - since much of what was# said could be taken as sour grapes.B  G Until this person wants to let us know who he/she is - I'm not about to @ engage in a debate with them, or even address individual points.      2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message <3CC952BA.7000101@sun.com>...) >  >l >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:n >t! >> the augur wrote in message ...o >> >> >> nothing of interest >> >>C >>>And stop using the lame "person posts without a real name" crap, H >>>nobody cares to get personal with the likes of you, just present your+ >>>facts and get on with your life--sheesh!  >>>w >>>o >>I >> Let's try and guess which poster has decided that he needs to hide his0 >> identity. >> >s >eG >Again you seem to be more concerned about the way the message is beingb >delivered and not the content.h >PE >So what if he/she is not prepared to provide their identity. It doesh> >not alter tha fact that the points they raise are valid ones. >.C >What would you prefer anonymous posted facts or pure fiction beingf# >posted by identified individuals ?e >g >Regards >Andrew Harrison >M   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:29:57 GMTa3 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>s/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wiped3 Message-ID: <3CC90202.C2E5844B@mcmail.maricopa.edu>e  F Oops. Forgot to actually answer the question... Mainly because this is% where it gets a little hazy for me...p  A   I *believe* that there is a flag in the header of the file thatlF indicates that the file should be erased upon deletion. IIRC this flagH can actually be set on the file upon creation, or at any time during its life.t  G So doing a delete/erase on a file that is open should cause the file toaG be erased when all remaining processes (or contexts) formally close the  file._  H If the system crashes before all the processes close the file and you doD an analyze/repair the main effect is to create a directory entry forH files with allocation but no directory entry at the directory pointed toE by the header. If you do a delete on the resultant file in the [LOST]hH directory, the close routine should detect the 'erase on delete' bit and do the erasure.s  H I have a fairly vague memory of how the volume-wide erase setting works,E but I would assume that it is just ORed into the file erase on delete E bit as part of the block deallocation process. If so, then the answerr would be "yes"./  B But if I'm totally wrong on this I look forward to finding out the 'real' answer. :)    --Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:09:38 GMTI3 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>o/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipeS3 Message-ID: <3CC8FD40.DEB30721@mcmail.maricopa.edu>i   JF Mezei wrote:-   > Joe wrote:H > > Is that necessarily true? sys$common:[sysexe]delete.exe isn't a veryF > > big file. Assuming the necessary privileges and that it's entirelyJ > > memory resident when it goes to delete itself (safe bets) why wouldn't > > it?  > K > YOu can't delete an opened file. The file may disapear from the directoryoH > entry, but the data remains with a "marked for delete". When you do an= > ANA/DISK/REPAIR, only then will the files be truly deleted)i >e. > here is a question to the file system gurus: >'@ > if you do a delete/erase to a file that is opened, when you doG > ana/disk/repair, will the file then be truly deleted and its contentshN > overwritten ? (eg: is there a "marked for delete" and a "marked for erase on > delete" flag ? n the file ?) >wN > Also, if one does ana/disk/repair, and you have SET VOLUME/ERASE_ON_DELETE ,O > does the ana/disk/repair do total erasure of data when it finds a file markedL > for delete ?  M O.k., here goes. The following is from memory from mumble years ago... Anyone < who has a better grip on this please feel free to correct...  /   The process of deletion of a file is as such:a  L    1) The file is opened and the "open counter" for the file is incremented.  $    2) The file is marked as deleted.  I    3) The file entry is removed from the directory pointed to in the files header.t  L    4) The file is closed and the "open counter" for the file is decremented.  J As part of step 4 (file closure), the closing routine checks to see if theN delete bit is set, and if the "open counter" for the file is going from one toI zero. If so, then the file blocks are returned to the free blocks for thet4 device, and the file header is marked as not in use.  O This allows for process A to open a file, process B to delete it. When A closesx7 the file it is actually deleted, not when B deletes it.t  M IF the system crashes before B closes the file it goes into the "lost" state,iF where there is no directory entry but the file header 'has' the blocksO allocated. It it this situation that ANALYZE/REPAIR is intended to address, not.& if a file is deleted while it is open.  H Note that if there is no other process (or the same process with anotherO context) holding the file open, then the behavior is as expected. The file goese away..  J Thus you can get some 'strange' results, for example, an executing commandH procedure or program deleting the .com or .exe and continuing to operate	 normally.    Comments? :)   --Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:50:25 GMTf( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company . Message-ID: <l2cy8.134017$G72.81535@sccrnsc01>  J Right. Let's all start a company and give our product away for free. We'llH all pool our pennies and buy VMS from Compaq for several billion dollarsL (VMS represents about $2B annually to Compaq according to Terry Shannon) andK give it away! And our programmers will all work for free! Advertisers won'tm. charge us a thing! What wonderful guys we are!  I This business will be around for less time than the clock period on a VAXE0 11/730, and in the end, VMS will really be dead.  A Much as I am a VMS bigot, count me out. I need a job that pays...s  	 Mark Levye SMAe    < "Rick Nickles" <chinachowchow@mailcity.com> wrote in message7 news:ac4e3b24.0204251916.66dc5172@posting.google.com...t > Imagine the headlines !rG > Imagine what it would be like, if we who are the ones who really love-F > VMS and want to see it prosper gathered together somehow and startedF > our own company and bought this from Compaq or what ever the company- > of the moment may currently be at the time.i >.E > Then nobody is going to be telling us how we shouldn't be marketingeB > our product, and we can do everything we can to build up VMS and* > really give Windows serious competition. >-D > Make VMS cheap or free, Port it everywhere, Do anything to attractG > developers, advertise like crazy NOW or die.  You know VMS can be THEaH > internet platform of the next several decades, but someone has to have > a vision!6 >.L ____________________________________________________________________________ >c > Rick   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:11:43 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companye; Message-ID: <01KH0V2H3V428ZE7FO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  G > Imagine what it would be like, if we who are the ones who really love F > VMS and want to see it prosper gathered together somehow and startedF > our own company and bought this from Compaq or what ever the company- > of the moment may currently be at the time.6  F Minimum money required to buy VMS (assuming its owner would sell it),  rough guess: $ 1 billion.a  E I think that, at most, you could get about 1000 people interested in 72 this.  No problem if they are all millionaires....  F $1000 is probably the most any normal Joe would put up.  So you would A need a million of them, more than the famous 411,000 VMS systems aC worldwide.  (By coincidence, I think this is about the same as the l) number of catholic priests in the world.)e  E > Then nobody is going to be telling us how we shouldn't be marketingrB > our product, and we can do everything we can to build up VMS and* > really give Windows serious competition.  H If you are really serious about this, buy some commercial licenses from C Compaq, set up a company to make things easy for the customer, and oF include a license-transfer fee as part of the customer's fee for your E service.  If what you have in mind would really work, you could make   money this way.x   > Make VMS cheap or free,   A And then what happens to all the money the folks invested in the iA company?  Why spend a billion to buy something then give it away?e  H > You know VMS can be THE internet platform of the next several decades,$ > but someone has to have a vision!   H What I do agree on is that a vision for VMS is needed.  I see it as the F ideal platform for the small web-based business, for some of the same C reasons it is the ideal platform for the traditional VMS customers.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:49:56 -0400f5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h0 Subject: Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org, Message-ID: <aabpqk$8ifs$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  L Frankly, with a site name of "windows-sucks" it's not likely that Compaq (orF many companies, except perhaps Sun) would directly contribute to it...% interested users on the other hand...-    A David Froble wrote in message <3CC6FD17.1040007@tsoft-inc.com>...m >Doc.Cypher wrote: >.J >> On 24 Apr 2002, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>	 >> wrote:  >>A >>>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:t >>>r >>>>"Doc.Cypher" wrote:  >>>>: >>>>>This was one of those things I never expected, but... >>>>>gK >>>>>I've been approached for an account from one of the people running theuE >>>>>windows sucks website. In addition to wanting an account they're 
 interested5 >>>>>in having something about VMS to go on the site.u >>>>>c& >>>>I'm amazed no-one has bitten this. >>>>" >>>Me too, guess Sue must be busy. >>>  >>K >> I've had a mail from one of the VMS Ambassadors pointing out that Sue ise onI >> holiday this week, he's also passed on the first post in the thread torG >> Someone In Marketing. I'll wait and see if they can provide anythings >> suitable. >d >tJ >Oh no!  The kiss of death!  Wait on help in promoting VMS from Marketing, ands >you'll wait forever.w > E >Some people tried to help in the past, and when MEF got involved, ite appearedA >the involvement was solely to squash any outside 'interference'!g >aK >Possibly some information we put together might be used for your purposes.e BeJ >nice to see it did some good somewhere, since Compaq didn't have much use fortL >it.  I'll look at it and advise you on what I find.  Might be a day or two. >m >Dave  >  >eL >> In the meantime, borrowing bits from the FAQ, I've made a start which canD >> be seen at https://vmsbox.cjb.net/vms.html and I'd appreciate any comments >> on this.  >> >> >> Doc.  >> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:35:02 +0100d. From: "Robb Edge" <Robb.Edge "@" Savant.co.uk>' Subject: VMS, Bind and Active Directory-* Message-ID: <ib9y8.5$Q32.595@psinet-eu-nl>  0 If this is the wrong group, then many apologies.  H Any one set up an M$ AD domain, using Bind 8.2 or 9.x running on VMS7.3?   Thanks in advancen   Robb
 '97 Firestorm5   ------------------------------   Date: 26 APR 2002 14:18:29 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)+ Subject: Re: VMS, Bind and Active Directoryr6 Message-ID: <26APR02.14182948@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  F In a previous article, "Robb Edge" <Robb.Edge "@" Savant.co.uk> wrote:  2 ->If this is the wrong group, then many apologies. -> wJ ->Any one set up an M$ AD domain, using Bind 8.2 or 9.x running on VMS7.3?  B Bind 8.1.2 supports the minimum requirements for AD (SRV records). TCPIP V5.1 supplies Bind 8.1.2.r  E We've been using TCPIP V5.1 as the DNS for an AD domain (using staticcH SRV records) for a while now. While I'm not involved in the operation ofA the AD, I've not heard any DNS complains from the person that is.b   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisoni2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:26:49 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)  Subject: Re: web hosting7 Message-ID: <91FC7F89Fwarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>   + annonymous@pacbell.net (Don Sykes) wrote ine! <3CC8869A.F8AFA1DC@pacbell.net>: i   >lH >I use FastTrack on a AlphaStation 250 4/266 and it works fine for about >1000 hits/day.g > 
 >> Thanks, >> Chris Sharman   A TRS-80 could handle that <g>.    ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)- The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:39:43 -0700r+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>3 Subject: Re: web hosting% Message-ID: <3CC982CF.40307@mmaz.com>-  & --------------0506020901050402060805059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=floweda Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits     Warren Spencer wrote:i  , >annonymous@pacbell.net (Don Sykes) wrote in" ><3CC8869A.F8AFA1DC@pacbell.net>:  >sI >>I use FastTrack on a AlphaStation 250 4/266 and it works fine for aboutt >>1000 hits/day. >>
 >>>Thanks, >>>Chris Sharman >>>t >   >A TRS-80 could handle that <g>. >b) I was thinking more of a Commodore 64 :-)t   Barryi    & --------------050602090105040206080505) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciia Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith   <html> <head> </head>m <body> <br> Warren Spencer wrote:<br>cM <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:91FC7F89Fwarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100">r  <pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:annonymous@pacbell.net">annonymous@pacbell.net</a> (Don Sykes) wrote in<br><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:3CC8869A.F8AFA1DC@pacbell.net">&lt;3CC8869A.F8AFA1DC@pacbell.net&gt;</a>: <br><br></pre>i   <blockquote type="cite">x     <pre wrap="">I use FastTrack on a AlphaStation 250 4/266 and it works fine for about<br>1000 hits/day.<br><br></pre>     <blockquote type="cite">5       <pre wrap="">Thanks,<br>Chris Sharman<br></pre>r       </blockquote>t       </blockquote>fM       <pre wrap=""><!----><br>A TRS-80 could handle that &lt;g&gt;.<br></pre>n       </blockquote>r- I was thinking more of a Commodore 64 :-)<br>-
       <br>	 Barry<br>-
       <br>
       </body>2
       </html>i  ( --------------050602090105040206080505--   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:38:05 GMTa( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>0 Subject: Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?/ Message-ID: <NSby8.144536$CH1.115396@sccrnsc02>s   Hiya, David!  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CC8C76A.651029CA@fsi.net...,G > I didn't find the message this evening, but this afternoon I saw (viauE > Google) a post which suggested that "affordable" = "cheap, shitty".n >uH > Should this be the topic of another on-line survey? I'd really like toG > know if I'm the only one who equates "affordable" to "good stuff at agI > reasonable price" (read, for the "average consumer": "not more than oneo
 > paycheck").t >. > Whaddaya think?   G Depends on your paycheck! It also depends on what you intend to use theeL product for. I assume you're referring to VMS here. Affordability really hasL little to do with it, as VMS was never intended to be a mass-market product,G Windows was (and it shows). How much of the things you really like (andrJ businesses need) would you be willing to give up to make VMS "affordable."I Would you be willing to accept Windows level of reliability and security?yJ Those very things that make VMS much more desireable than Windows or LinuxG are also the very assets that allow VMS to command higher prices in the  marketplace.  	 Mark Levyc SMAi   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 08:33:37 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)p! Subject: Re: What have I got heret= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204260733.7a4a20f3@posting.google.com>   ] "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote in message news:<3cc84570$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>...uN > It was to my great surprise today that an Alpha machine came into my hands -K > gratis.  I'm hoping someone here can help me understand just what is I'vemK > got.  There were no documents with the machine, but I did manage to glean N > from the source that it is a circa-1996 Digital Alpha Server 1000 4/266 with > Windows NT installed.e  D You should have no problem running VMS on this machine.  (I have theC slightly-slower 4/233 model at home with VMS.)  It's a decent olderuA server, with an integrated StorageWorks shelf.  One drawback as aeA server is that there are only 3 PCI slots, so those can get a bit : precious (there are 7 EISA slots, though -- this model wasB manufactured before it was certain whether or not PCI would reallyB take off in the marketplace.  The later 1000A model reversed theseE proportions with 7 PCI and 3 EISA slots).  The other drawback is that @ because this is a server, not a workstation, the integrated SVGA< adapter on the motherboard was inexpensive but fairly low inD performance, making DECterms scroll slowly, so if you plan to use itF as a workstation, you'll probably want to disable the on-board adapter; (done with a jumper) and use another graphics card instead.5  F On the Compaq website, the Supported Options List for the 1000A may beS found at http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/as1000ev4/as1000ev4_options.htmlh8 -- that identifies your choices for additional hardware.  D Since it's been running NT, you'll need to switch the console to SRMC mode rather than the ARC console it's probably got enabled.  Buriedi@ one or two screens deep in the ARC console menus is an option toC switch to the SRM console for Unix or VMS.  Take that option, powerf3 off/on, and you should get a ">>>" prompt from SRM.e. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:20:04 GMTh0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: WIN2000 printing to LPS17 problemse; Message-ID: <260420021215059982%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>b  5 In article <3CC6C9F8.D3EB835B@clemson.edu>, Joe Swifto <jswift@clemson.edu> wrote:e  F > Has anyone else encountered problems with the LPS17 print drivers inG > Windows 2000?  When printing from applications like Acrobat and PowereH > Point we get multiple copies of the document even though only one copyF > shows on the print screen.   Does anyone know of a solution to this?  C Despite the lack of a thunderous crowd of people responding to youroF question, I *know* others have seen your problem.  The Compaq CSSC [1]F has been in touch with me about this problem, but no one has been able to identify why it happens.t  H You are not alone, unless that was *you* who called the CSSC to call me.   Paul  @ [1] formerly the CSC (Customer Support Center), now the Customer" Solutions and Support Center.  ;-)   -- s  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Compaq Computer Corporationd   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.230 ************************