1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 27 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 232       Contents:& Re: (GCC) GNU C/C++ compiler for Alpha 4/27/2002 12:45:26 PM  Re: Alpha 3000/5002 Re: comparison chart: pros and cons of WWW servers: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows Re: download VMS Re: download VMS Re: I in SMISERVER?  Re: IBM and aviation Re: IBM and aviation. Out of Office AutoReply: 4/27/2002 12:45:26 PM Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS  Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS P Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F Re: simple DCL question " Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem VMS Surplus stuff (BULK) Re: VMS Surplus stuff (BULK) Re: web hosting   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:21:57 +0200 * From: DWParsons@T-Online.de (Dave Parsons)/ Subject: Re: (GCC) GNU C/C++ compiler for Alpha P Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-v0m52e1JgjQh@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  P On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:38:13 UTC, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:   > Hunter Goatley wrote:  > > > > > A mirror of the ProGIS port can be found on ftp.tmk.com inA > > [.VMS-FREEWARE.GCC-FOR-ALPHA].  It's not perfect, but it was, 4 > > AFAIK, the only GCC ever done for OpenVMS Alpha. > K > If GNAT on OpenVMS Alpha uses GCC, what GCC do they use and where can it   > be downloaded from?  >   H The GNAT 3.1* versions use gcc 2.8(.0/.1) and the only executable I have found is the ProGIS port. H I read in c.o.v some time ago that 2.8.1 is available in the GNAT publicB builds from cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat/openvms but I have not checked it.2 This is probably pub/gnat/private/old/openvms now.  H GCC 3.1 and later source code from ftp://gcc.gnu.org/pub includes GNAT 5H and also build instructions/makefiles for VMS alpha and VAX using native cc in the first stage.  @ I haven't tried to build it yet, too busy with the OS/2 version.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:45:26 -0400 ) From: "Info-VAX" <Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com.>  Subject: 4/27/2002 12:45:26 PM" Message-ID: <5075308@MVB.SAIC.COM>  
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 =3C=2Fhtml=3El   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Apr 2002 01:16:47 -0700# From: pg_bennett@hotmail.com (Paul)a Subject: Re: Alpha 3000/500=< Message-ID: <227a9c11.0204270016.4abed80@posting.google.com>  - Thank you for all your advice and assistance.vB I am sure it will be a steep learning curve, but i'm sure when I'm0 stuck somebody will be able to offer a solution.   Thanks     Paul   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Apr 2002 07:56:44 -00005 From: "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org>a; Subject: Re: comparison chart: pros and cons of WWW serversC6 Message-ID: <20020427075644.14296.qmail@gacracker.org>  5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.i8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  9 On 26 Apr 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:EE >Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message=8 >news:<01KH12X67B068Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...H >> Does anyone have (or can anyone point me to) a GENERAL comparison of A >> various HTTP servers for VMS (OSU, CSWS, WASD, Purveyor,...)? = >o >here's purveyor!  > 4 >http://www.sss.co.nz/software/purveyor/purveyor.htm   that wasn't what was asked for!b  G .. Phillip wanted a comparison ... not an advert for your favourite web% server.a    ? I think the best bet is probably Alan's book when it comes out.      Doc. -- t6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net2   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Apr 2002 08:46:56 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)=C Subject: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows=3 Message-ID: <sOEId8gTz5Wn@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  f In article <3CC9AEA7.4916823A@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:3 >> 2= >> "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message 0 >> news:IEnbX4I5irvC@eisner.encompasserve.org...E >> > DECUServe discussion from Richard Copeland quoted some notice ofaH >> > a survey, and for once I liked what I saw, both for privacy and for >> > question design:2 >> =O >> Well, we tried! ;-} Many lessons learned from the Advocacy Tool, etc. Not to N >> mention the www.openvms.org surveys. We did away with evil cookies and went- >> to IP addresses to minimize double-voting.t > H > Oh good, then I can vote, reconnect my DSL (PPPoE) which gets me a new > IP address and vote again :)  I Me2. And I should be allowed to vote "early and often" any way, since I'm  from Chicago :-)  C         We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the F         principles of a democratic society, accountable government andG         international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner=)         consistent with the Constitution. 4                                                     1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy34 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:47:38 GMTF1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>TC Subject: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows , Message-ID: <_uBy8.14755$ao1.7995@rwcrnsc54>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CCA0942.79A49B45@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:uJ > > Another good point. Any suggestions on how we could implement a surveyC > > without dealing with cookies, IP addresses, or email addresses?o >B4 > Combination of postal code and day/month of birth.   Thanks, JF!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:56:50 -040022 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: download VMSsK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2704021256510001@1cust239.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   5 In article <3CCA0D7B.26CA97CD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezein% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:2   >Robert Deininger wrote:A >> produce.  Have you looked at prices for VMS media kits lately?t >PC >I wish I could. Care to tell me where I can find prices for the CD N >distribution of layered products in canadian dollars and where I can actuallyJ >place an order without having to fight 10 hours for the right to buy it ?  E You call Compaq and ask for prices.  The last time I did it, I calledTH 1-800-digital, but that number might finally have gone away. It helps (aG lot) if you know the order number, because as you point out, the personiE answering the phone probably hasn't heard of VMS.  I dunno what extrad3 hoops must be jumped though to get Canadian prices.t  G >Last time I called Compaq, I had to fight to obtain a LIST price for a $ >"digital" software product for VMS.  N Me too.  It's been a couple of years, but the service was absolutely horrible.  H >The CDs may be inexpensive to produce, but Compaq/HP do not have a costE >effective infrastructure to sell and distribute those to the smaller  >customers.s  G I disagree.  The morons on the order phone are pretty cheap.  I suspectCF they are payed based on how many calls they handle, not how many happyE customers they leave in their wake.  The way the beans are counted at C Compaq, I bet the ordering system looks very cheap.  The beans thatlB represent lost sales and unhappy customers are simply not counted.  I Once the order gets into the system, the processing seems to be quick andBF efficient.  The turnaround time from submission to manufacturing untilI first ship seems to be a couple of weeks or so.  For software, Compaq can=C print, staple, burn, package, shrinkwrap, and ship about as well as E anyone.  Given the high prices they still charge, they must be makingf. buckets of money on VMS software distribution.  I I don't have any insight into how HP does software distibution.  About 10 H years ago, I bought an out-of-print manual for an HP calculator.  It wasJ fast, easy, and pretty cheap.  I doubt much of that infrastructure remains at the "modern" HP.2  =B >And their wintel distribution (retain stores etc) don't carry VMSK >products. The internet would enable Compaq/HP to cost effectively sell and  >distribute software.D  I Retail distribution is expensive -- shelf space in a store costs $$$.  It2; wouldn't make sense for a low-volume product line like VMS.F  G VMS products could be sold more effectively via web.  I don't think VMSrF marketing/management folks consider that an important priority.  IMHO,G they are only used to thinking in terms of big customers.  Many of them H would be surprised to learn of widespread demand from smallish potential
 VMS folks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:31:00 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: download VMS K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2704021331010001@1cust162.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>t  P In article <3CCA135E.A269E1B3@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: >>  G >> Those are real advantages.  The disadvantage is the time is takes toEM >> engineer and test the new installation mechanism(s).  What new features do2B >> you want to give up, so VMS engineering can devote time to this >> installation project? > F >Myself, I want FTP access to an image file of the latest current baseI >install CD, and then the kits for layered products.  These files have to=I >exist on servers somewhere; what's the cost in making them available fori" >download, besides some bandwidth?  F What do you mean by "image" file?  AFAIK, the current VMS installationG mechanism depends on a kit on an ODS-2 (or maybe ODS-5) disk-structured2G device.  Nothing else.  The kit may be on a disk or a CD, or served via=H network from a disk or a CD.  None of the current protocols are routable or based on tcpip.  B When I joined this thread, I think it was about VMS installation. H Distribution is easier.  Kits can clearly be made available via network,G but they won't be useable until they are placed on an ODS device in the 6 vicinity of the system where they are to be installed.  O >> VMS engineers don't grow on trees, you know.  Neither do they work for free.  > G >Don't much need an engineer to do what I've asked above; need an admind0 >geek to copy some files around once in a while.  E Which files?  The number of kits and components in VMS land is fairlygH large.  An untrained "admin geek" would undoubtedly mixed them up fairlyI often.  Even the experienced folks who have been doing it for years botch I the kits once in a while.  Putting the right files in the right kits with2J the right release notes and instructions is a high-skill activity.  IF theE kitting is well designed and executed (and I don't think VMS is quite I there yet), then distribution and installation should be straightforward.   H Any distribution method that is based on current installation methods isH probably technically easy.  If customers convince the product management- folks who make the decisions, it will happen.   ? Changing the kitting and installation mechanisms is technicallyeE non-trivial.  It WILL introduce a large number of configuration bugs,bF which will have to be hunted down and squashed.  An expensive job thatH will only get done if there is an expectation that it will significantly enhance revenue.     >The one thing furtherF >that would be nice is if VMSINSTAL could be pointed at an URL when itF >asks where your installation kit is, whereupon it could download that> >someplace handy and then proceed normally.  But that's a nit.  H VMSINSTAL is more or less dead.  PCSI should have completely replaced itD years ago.  I doubt even VMS engineering wants to enhance VMSINSTAL.  7 >> Have you looked at prices for VMS media kits lately?v >iA >I honestly have no clue (not in my day-to-day job function), but3G >multiply that price by the # of VMS customers that recieve a quarterly ( >CONDIST (I have no idea what that # is)  H I consider the list price beyond the comfort level of a small company orC department.  Hobbyists are right out.  In my experience, many sites I upgrade as seldom as they can get away with solely because of the cost ofl the media kits.   H There are exceptions.  VMS "dash" release CDs are cheap.  It might be an	 accident.   ! >and you're probably talking some  >money.t   Ayup.   B >> Since a goodly number of VMS customers would NOT accept network >nF >Hmm- I don't know how many zeros there are in 'goodly', but I'll takeE >your word for it.  OTOH, I'd bet an equally 'goodly' number of sitesi: >might be willing to take electronic distribution of kits.  H Suppose the kits were downloadable, but just as expensive as the currentI CD-based kits.  That would keep the bean counters at Compaq happy.  Would G it make the customers happy?  I doubt it.  There is an expectation that=F downloadable kits should be "cheap", so the bean counters would likelyJ fear the loss of revenue.  (I'm not talking about license costs.  That's a separate batch of beans.)   J Of course, lowering the prices would attract more customers. Planning suchH a strategy requires ADVANCED bean-counting, and IMHO that has never been Compaq's strength.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:48:18 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG= Subject: Re: I in SMISERVER?0 Message-ID: <00A0D150.B67C1881@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <fZqy8.8156$8p3.688063@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org> writes:e  >What is the I in SMISERVER for?  
 integrator  # _S_system _M_anagement _I_ntegrator=   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM=             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesD   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:26:42 GMT9" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: IBM and aviatione0 Message-ID: <SVvy8.376$W3.12735@typhoon.bart.nl>  K My guess is that large installations are bought with specific functionalityf in mind,' like plant control, administration etc.=J The next decision is make or buy the software; these days that's buy, more often than not. @ The 3rd party software vendors dictate their choice of platform.K Customers do not care too much for the hardware and o/s. The reason is that  theseaH decisions are no longer taken exclusively by IT staff, other departments carry equal orG more weight. If the bookkeepers think SAP is the best, then VMS is out.e  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CC9ACFA.AA25A326@videotron.ca... > David Froble wrote:gD > > There appear to be some people today worrying about that job and retirement thatdJ > > did Digital/Compaq/s job for them and marketed Alpha to their company. Digital J > > and Compaq did not 'take good care of these customers'.  One important part of3F > > taking good care of customers is keeping the commitments you make. > I > But will these decisions come back to haunt Compaq/HP  if/when they bido forD > serious stuff against IBM ?S >eK > Does HP really have what it takes to take on truly serious applications ?  > K > Considering that the HP/Compaq sales force is conditioned to sell Wintel,l has I > the sale of serious systems such as Tandem switched from being hardwares vendor- > driven to being application vendor driven ?2 >EG > (eg: it is the application vendor that makes the pitch and includes a  hardwareE > solution in the pitch, as opposed to Compaq/HP making the pitch anda	 includingF' > a 3rd party software in the solution)2   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:52:45 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>= Subject: Re: IBM and aviation G Message-ID: <N2yy8.29533$Il1.3050@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  G You are partially correct in saying that the application often dictates=E which hardware and O/s get the win. But you have to look further than 2 that....at the developers of the applications too.  H As an example (and I don't know if this is true for SAP but I know it isD true for other apps), say the SAP developers want to use one or moreD toolsets during their own development process and those tools aren'tI available on VMS.  Guess what...they don't target VMS as a development or=K deployment environment, so VMS never has the app to have the opportunity too sell hardware with.c  J The simplest & lowest cost way for anyone to kill VMS is to pay some tokenC amounts of money to tool vendors NOT to provide VMS-based toolsets.e  K Without the tools, the app vendors won't build, and internal unix & Windows H bigots will point out to management that they "...can't possibly get anyH productive work done without those tools, so let's skip VMS altogether."  I And the other argument is that why use an o/s where there may be only one I provider of a particular type of app, which can put a customer at risk if L that vendor goes bust, whereas unix and Windows typically have several, uptoL dozens, of similar apps available to choose from. Of course they never speakJ to quality of those apps when they say that...but realistically, there areI many fine apps available on unix (shame about the underlying o/s though).n      - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message=* news:SVvy8.376$W3.12735@typhoon.bart.nl...? > My guess is that large installations are bought with specific=
 functionality=
 > in mind,) > like plant control, administration etc. L > The next decision is make or buy the software; these days that's buy, more > often than not.fB > The 3rd party software vendors dictate their choice of platform.H > Customers do not care too much for the hardware and o/s. The reason is that > theseiJ > decisions are no longer taken exclusively by IT staff, other departments > carry equal orI > more weight. If the bookkeepers think SAP is the best, then VMS is out.  > : > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CC9ACFA.AA25A326@videotron.ca... > > David Froble wrote:rF > > > There appear to be some people today worrying about that job and > retirement that L > > > did Digital/Compaq/s job for them and marketed Alpha to their company.	 > Digital3L > > > and Compaq did not 'take good care of these customers'.  One important	 > part ofrH > > > taking good care of customers is keeping the commitments you make. > >3K > > But will these decisions come back to haunt Compaq/HP  if/when they bidn > foro > > serious stuff against IBM ?v > >mK > > Does HP really have what it takes to take on truly serious applicationsy ?l > >aE > > Considering that the HP/Compaq sales force is conditioned to sell- Wintel,  > has7K > > the sale of serious systems such as Tandem switched from being hardwareg > vendor/ > > driven to being application vendor driven ?v > > I > > (eg: it is the application vendor that makes the pitch and includes ae
 > hardwareG > > solution in the pitch, as opposed to Compaq/HP making the pitch ande > including-) > > a 3rd party software in the solution)- >- >-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:16:23 +0930l: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>7 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: 4/27/2002 12:45:26 PM P Message-ID: <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F808545204B8D419@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>   Hi,   > I am currently on leave and will not be back until 29th April.   Cheers,  Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:20:45 +0200d2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)( Subject: Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS; Message-ID: <3cca352d.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  . Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) wrote:! > ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) writes:nJ > > In the position of a Compaq partnership guy, I would certainly try and+ > > get Rational to port Purify to OpenVMS.2 > > G > > SCA does part of the job, but doesn't help at all with C++ code, as B > > Compaq C++ doesn't produce .ANA files, and probably the objectG > > oriented paradigm needs some more specific tool than SCA or a major9 > > rework of it.d >oA > That sounds to me like a deficiency of the C++ compiler and itsT? > relation to SCA.  I have had good luck using the DECset toolsp% > with Ada, Bliss, Pascal, Scan, etc.E  G I have successfully used PCA with Compaq C++ in my porting of ht://Dig.a Haven't looked at SCA, though.   cu,>   Martin -- fF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deeF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Apr 2002 07:52:30 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>t( Subject: Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <20020427075230.14238.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On 26 Apr 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:> >In article <9d337b47.0204261152.29bac516@posting.google.com>,  >ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) writes:   <snip>  F >> The need of Purify on VMS also is proped up by the current trend ofF >> porting more and more UNIX software to VMS, as opposed to start new >> VMS specific developments.t > H >> tight delays, just to suppress easier a few bugs.  In the real world,? >> we inherit more code written in evil languages than we have 7G >> opportunities to write from scratch in the dialect of our choice, so:% >> remarks like this are irrelevant. a >mD >If it is that buggy coming in from Unix, that says something to me.  C That prompted me to look for the comments in David Mathog's portingB guide...    &  5.  A zillion warnings on compilationH    Bad news Bucky, most software is crap and you're looking at it.  The D    OpenVMS compilers are much pickier by default than those on otherK    platforms and show you where the problems are.  Your best bet in general-I    is to fix the warnings you see, and make the compiler air out all the  ?    code's dirty laundry.  Get your code to compile cleanly witha  M0      /standard=ansi89/prefix=all/warn=enable=all  .I    and you'll save yourself a lot of trouble later on.  It will also makeJ    your code more portable.d     Full document can be found atnI https://vmsbox.cjb.net/VMS/UNIX_TO_VMS_NOTES.TXT If it needs any updates,y let me know.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Apr 2002 06:56:18 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>IY Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F 6 Message-ID: <20020427065618.10491.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 26 Apr 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:I   <snip>   >disclaimer:J >The opinions expressed by myself on this board do not necessarily reflectH >those of other self appointed vms experts on this board.  I am the onlyH >poster on this board who is totally clueless ... all other posters knowF >all the future holds for vms, and should not be confused with myself.  H Look, it's not a board. It is a NEWSGROUP, or for some people, a mailing( list. Please get your terminology right.  I As to your comments about "other self appointed vms experts", well I findpJ what they post far more plausible. Stating that Alpha will live in ItaniumK suggests that Itanium will either change to using the Alpha instruction setrK or the EPIC core will be replaced with the RISC core from Alpha. Neither ofhG these seems likely to happen. What does seem likely is that some of thesD non-specific features from the Alpha processor will be grafted on toD Itanium. This will not make the damn thing an Alpha processor. Okay?     Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netc   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:28:44 +0200e) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>i  Subject: Re: simple DCL question/ Message-ID: <3CCA613C.6080606@xs4all.nospam.nl>n   Michael Austin wrote:a > RLFitch wrote: > 1 >>Need to insert "special" character into string.r >>like:m; >>$ msg = "some text " + <special char> + " some more text"n >>K >>I'm sure that this is simple, probably a lexical, but I'm not finding the/B >>reference. I would want to convert ASCII(number) to a character. >>	 >>Thanks,e
 >>Randy Fitchl >  > = > $ msg = "some text " + "''f$string(1)'" + " some more text"e >  ort
 > $cnt = 1+ > $ msg = "some text ''cnt' some more text"t >   F May I suggest that you reread the question and test the solution that D you propose? Even the most simple questions require correct answers!  ? See the response from Barry Treahy, Jr, for the correct answer.d    	 Bart Zornf   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:40:07 +0200e) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>d+ Subject: Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problemu/ Message-ID: <3CCA63E7.1050108@xs4all.nospam.nl>-   David wrote:C > Is there a simple way [0] I can setup the security on a directory@= > so that files created in the directory are owned by whoevere6 > created them rather than whoever owns the directory. > < > I want to do this mainly so the files don't get added onto* > to the the directory owner's disk quota. >  > Cheers >  > Davidv  D Well, the solution may be simpler than you think! Revoke the SYSPRV H privilege from your users and grant them write access to the directory,  either by protection or ACL.  F Only users with SYSPRV privilege can create files with an other owner G than their own! In this case the default is the situation you describe.s   HTH,  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:32:06 -0400s1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>k! Subject: VMS Surplus stuff (BULK)./ Message-ID: <ucldh695aeqp4d@news.supernews.com>=  , We have surplus quantities of the following:  1 MSP01-HC 64MB Memory for Alpha PWS 168Pin ECC $32n2 MSP01-HD 128MB Memory for Alpha PWS 168Pin ECC $99) DE500-BA 10/100 Ethernet PCI New Bulk $45a= Low Profile SCSI 4GB Ultra Wide Disk SCA +68pin converter $59a- Standard Used Keyboards 101 Key for Alpha $10h/ DS-RZ1CB-VW 4GB Ultra Wide SCSI Disk Drives $99n2 DS-RZ1DB-VW 9.1GB Ultra WIde SCSI Disk Drives $175   We have loads of the above   Prices are firmn     -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Streetd Savannah GA 31404o Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332e International: 001 912 447 6622   Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net  www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:55:11 -0400e' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> % Subject: Re: VMS Surplus stuff (BULK)i< Message-ID: <howard-FDCDD8.10551127042002@enews.newsguy.com>  / In article <ucldh695aeqp4d@news.supernews.com>,t3  "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:    > We have loads of the above  $ "Loads" is the right word, fer shur.   -- n Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"' Aren't there any networked SJFs around?e   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2002 21:47:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: web hosting- Message-ID: <871yd2lgga.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  A > depends what you want to do ... Apache is good, WASD don't know   / WASD stands for Wide Area Survailance Division.   D of Defence Research Establishment, Salsbury. (or what ever they call it this week!) n  . Draw your own conclustions about its security.   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.232 ************************unction), but3G >multiply that price by the # of VMS customers that recieve a quarterly ( >CONDIST (I have no idea what that # is)  H I consider the list price beyond the comfort level of a small company orC department.  Hobbyists are right out.  In my experience, many sites I upgrade as seldom as they can get away with solely because of the cost ofl the media kits.   H There are exceptions.  VMS "