1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 29 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 235       Contents:& Re: (GCC) GNU C/C++ compiler for Alpha9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family  Re: Best DIGITAL product ever?/ Cable pin-out for AlphaServer 300 to DS200 reqd 3 Re: Cable pin-out for AlphaServer 300 to DS200 reqd : Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows Re: download VMS help installing OpenVMS 7.2  Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.2 D help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake.H Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake.H Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake.H Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake.H Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake.- RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! # Re: Interesting Job post from Intel  Re: Itanium troubles  Re: MAIL on VMS and attachments. Re: Network Delay? Re: Openvm 7.3 and DECevent  Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS P Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For   New ChipP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For   New ChipP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F> Re: somewhat off-topic: is there a DSL router with a console?!> Re: somewhat off-topic: is there a DSL router with a console?!( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company' Re: Web based/encrypted printing (O.T.) ' Re: What does "affordable" mean to you? ' Re: What does "affordable" mean to you? ' Re: What does "affordable" mean to you? 
 Re: X session   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:09:01 GMT 4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: (GCC) GNU C/C++ compiler for Alpha ? Message-ID: <hi%y8.62030$o66.188110@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   L GCC and other great tools can be found in the "GNV - GNU's Not VMS" package,  at  http://gnv.sourceforge.net/.  J You may also be interested in the related product for porting UNIX apps toF OpenVMS.  It is called the OpenVMS Porting Library, and is located at:  ? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/porting.html      Matt.    --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporation  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------     = "Fabio Becherini" <fabio.becherini@ufrgs.br> wrote in message 7 news:70cf0643.0204231151.4b869e64@posting.google.com...  > Hi folks,  > . > We have OpenVMS V7.2 running in some Alphas,7 > and now we are looking for a (GCC) GNU C/C++ compiler  > for these machines.  > & > Does anyone have a solution for it ? >  > Best regards !   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:17:28 -0400 ( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family/ Message-ID: <ucot7vdpuflrdb@corp.supernews.com>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0204250428.5cf61159@posting.google.com... J > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<aVKx8.170816 > G > why would Intel want to play second fiddle to AMD or Power or anybody D > when they have the chip that would put them number one?  I predictF > Intel will drop the Epic boat anchor and eventually, if not already,E > use the Alpha engineers to continue to develop EV8, and then market B > it ... why be number two, or just compete when you can smoke theF > competition?  If they do not, then they are as dum as DEC and Q are!7 > And no x86 processor will ever dominate the high end!    Bob,  C     Stop bogarting what you are smoking and pass it around. I could K     stand a little disallusionment right now. (school finishing up, no job,  a      kid on the way..)   C     After EV7, Alpha is done. I expect to see Hammer systems taking F     a LARGE share of the 64-bit market real fast, if AMD doesn't screwF     the pooch. Hammer + Hypertransport + easy of porting + applicationK     compatibility is going to put a serious dent in IA-64 marketing. I hope 2     Compaq got some iron-clad agreements in place.     mikeI                                                         I used to work in 
 the VMS group F                                                         and API (alpha processor inc)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:03:43 -0500 , From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: Best DIGITAL product ever? 2 Message-ID: <aaignv$6ls$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>  I That's a new one one me... IBM made M1 Carbines, but I'm pretty sure they L didn't make 1911s (though maybe they contracted parts for them).  Singer andL Remington Rand also made 1911s at various times; Rock-Ola and Inland made M1J Carbines also.  I passed up on a nice Rock-Ola M1 once... ended up with an7 IBM carbine (which is the best IBM product ever, IMO :)    Rich Jordan   % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...  > / >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message C >news:39Ex8.56905$VLV.50595@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... 
 >> COLT 45 >> . >> . >> Capellas  >> On  >> Line 
 >> Terminator  >> >> For the good of the company.  > E >Ironically or otherwise, IBM made Colt .45s (actually Model 1911 .45 9 >automatic pistols) for the US Govt. during World War II.  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:46:36 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) 8 Subject: Cable pin-out for AlphaServer 300 to DS200 reqd2 Message-ID: <3ccc5e13.3341759215@news.wcc.govt.nz>  	 Hi Chaps,   C On the scrounge for the cable pin-outs for a connector from COM1 (9 / pin ) on an AlphaServer 300 to a DECServer 200    F Trying to change the console from a Graphics to a serial so I can rack; mount it and just access the console via a Terminal Server.   D Already converted other Alphas,  just the 9-pin connector that isn't* playing the game on this particular Alpha.  B Done the >>>set console serial & >>> init but still nothing on the serial console.   E Alas, I can only find the Users Guide here and it doesn't provide any 2 cable info for the Serial Connection to a console.   As always Mucho TIA.   Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:08:50 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> < Subject: Re: Cable pin-out for AlphaServer 300 to DS200 reqd2 Message-ID: <3CCCAB32.EC6412C0@firstdbasource.com>   Rob Buxton wrote:  >  > Hi Chaps,  > E > On the scrounge for the cable pin-outs for a connector from COM1 (9 0 > pin ) on an AlphaServer 300 to a DECServer 200 > H > Trying to change the console from a Graphics to a serial so I can rack= > mount it and just access the console via a Terminal Server.  > F > Already converted other Alphas,  just the 9-pin connector that isn't, > playing the game on this particular Alpha. > D > Done the >>>set console serial & >>> init but still nothing on the > serial console.  > G > Alas, I can only find the Users Guide here and it doesn't provide any 4 > cable info for the Serial Connection to a console. >  > As always Mucho TIA. >  > Rob.  $ http://mate.kjsl.com/vmsfaq/misc.htm   --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:25:47 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> C Subject: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows , Message-ID: <fVYy8.19138$ao1.8483@rwcrnsc54>  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:htlPMM+msmoy@elias.decus.ch... K > In article <IEnbX4I5irvC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) writes: D > > DECUServe discussion from Richard Copeland quoted some notice ofG > > a survey, and for once I liked what I saw, both for privacy and for  > > question design: > > L > >          <<< EISNER::DRA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHAPTERCRACKERBARREL.NOTE;1 >>>9 > >                            -< ChapterCrackerBarrel >-  > > L ============================================================================ ==: > > Note 203.3             New stuff on Encompass web site 3 of 3L > > EISNER::KILGALLEN "Larry Kilgallen, LJK Software"  18 lines  26-APR-2002 07:14 5 > >                                 -< Well Done ! >-  > L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ; > >> Please take the Encompass survey regarding the pending # > >> Hewlett-Packard/Compaq merger: 0 > >> http://www.encompassus.org/surveyintro.html > >  > > They are getting better: > >  > F > Indeed. It even worked well from Netscape 3.03 on VMS, with Java and > Javascript disabled. > I > >>>> Please note that instead of using cookies, your ip address will be  loggedD > >>>> upon taking the survey. This is done for your convenience and privacy. > > F > > Furthermore, I tried the survey and did not find any questions for' > > which there was no suitable choice.  > > B > > I was particularly impressed by the questions that offered the > > choice:  > > 6 > > I am not a current or prospective Windows customer > ) > I _really_ enjoyed ticking that one :-)   K Well, the chance to participate isn't over yet. We have about 600 responses F so far, and we're looking for more. If you haven't participated in theJ survey yet, now might be a real good time to mosey on over to the Web site and make your voice be heard!    cheers,    terry s    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:44:15 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: download VMS < Message-ID: <3s2z8.73878$CH.11658@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message % news:aah6jg$126$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... H > A non-random-access , non-ODS device like for instance a TK50 or other tapeI > device which were the standard way to Install VMS before the widespread  use 
 > of CDs ????   K True, but what was on that tape was essentially an image backup. Standalone K Backup was booted from a tape or diskettes and run to restore the distro to  the target disk.  	 Mark Levy  SMA    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:39:09 GMT # From: "Joe Schmoe" <joe@schmoe.com> $ Subject: help installing OpenVMS 7.23 Message-ID: <hlXy8.12959$r5.4603081@news1.epix.net>   C Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a = VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:   / PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)     $ I enter the date and time like this:   28-004-2002 14:36     7 When i hit return after that, I get this error message:    invalid date/time     K I've spent the last two hours trying just about every way to enter the date & to no avail.  Can someone please help?  
 Thank you,   Bradley D. Walter    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:08:06 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) ( Subject: Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.29 Message-ID: <qMXy8.9832$Q42.378761@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   " Joe Schmoe (joe@schmoe.com) wrote:E : Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a ? : VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:  : 1 : PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)  :  : & : I enter the date and time like this: :  : 28-004-2002 14:36  :  : 9 : When i hit return after that, I get this error message:  :  : invalid date/time  :  : M : I've spent the last two hours trying just about every way to enter the date ( : to no avail.  Can someone please help? : 4 VMS uses a three-letter abbrevation for month; e.g.:    28-APR-2002 14:36    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:47:28 GMT , From: "Bradley D. Walter" <bwalter@epix.net>M Subject: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake. 3 Message-ID: <4tXy8.12960$r5.4603317@news1.epix.net>   C Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a = VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:   / PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)     $ I enter the date and time like this:   28-004-2002 14:36     7 When i hit return after that, I get this error message:    invalid date/time     K I've spent the last two hours trying just about every way to enter the date & to no avail.  Can someone please help?  
 Thank you,   Bradley D. Walter    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Apr 2002 20:57:28 +0200a From: holitska_a@removehomo-togetvalide-mailhomo-ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs) Q Subject: Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake. ! Message-ID: <ij7kE3+q7jh0@ludens>   b In article <4tXy8.12960$r5.4603317@news1.epix.net>, "Bradley D. Walter" <bwalter@epix.net> writes:E > Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a ? > VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:  > 1 > PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)  > & > I enter the date and time like this: >  > 28-004-2002 14:36    Try 28-APR-2002.  ' In VMS MMM refers to JAN, FEB, MAR etc.  MM to 01, 02, 03 etc.    >  >  > Thank you,  ' You'r welcome, God be with You:  <Holi>    >  > Bradley D. Walter  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:59:37 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> Q Subject: Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake. / Message-ID: <3CCC4699.2000005@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Bradley D. Walter wrote:E > Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a ? > VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:  > 1 > PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)  >  > & > I enter the date and time like this: >  > 28-004-2002 14:36  >  > 9 > When i hit return after that, I get this error message:  >  > invalid date/time  >  > M > I've spent the last two hours trying just about every way to enter the date ( > to no avail.  Can someone please help?    ! OpenVMS expects 28-apr-2002 14:36    HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:07:39 GMT , From: "Bradley D. Walter" <bwalter@epix.net>Q Subject: Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake. 3 Message-ID: <%LXy8.12961$r5.4604510@news1.epix.net>   
 THANK YOU!!!!    Bradley D. Walter 6 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message) news:3CCC4699.2000005@xs4all.nospam.nl...  > Bradley D. Walter wrote:G > > Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a A > > VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:  > > 3 > > PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)  > >  > > ( > > I enter the date and time like this: > >  > > 28-004-2002 14:36  > >  > > ; > > When i hit return after that, I get this error message:  > >  > > invalid date/time  > >  > > J > > I've spent the last two hours trying just about every way to enter the date* > > to no avail.  Can someone please help? >  > # > OpenVMS expects 28-apr-2002 14:36  >  > HTH, >  > Bart Zorn  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:00:38 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Q Subject: Re: help installing OpenVms 7.2 -- Repost due to replay address mistake. 8 Message-ID: <00A0D234.C6AAB018@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <4tXy8.12960$r5.4603317@news1.epix.net>, "Bradley D. Walter" <bwalter@epix.net> writes:D >Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on a> >VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this: > 0 >PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM) >  > % >I enter the date and time like this:  >  >28-004-2002 14:36   Use    28-APR-2002     L (The three letter abbreviation for month is pretty much the default for VMS;L in Datatrieve, that's so much the case that if you want to specify a numericD month you use NN.  JAN,FEB,MAR,APR,MAY,JUN,JUL,AUG,SEP,OCT,NOV,DEC.)   Hope this help!S   -- Alano      O ===============================================================================V0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056iM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210.O ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:43:17 -0400p+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>a6 Subject: RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EBB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  E >>> RAC is not a way to improve overall performance *in general*, buteC only after an SMP (or perhaps slightly NUMA) single-Oracle-instancep+ solution has started to run out of gas: <<<o  F I stated in my original note that RAC is not for every application. ItF is no different than SMP is not for every application. Both require an= understanding of the applications and the underlying hardwaree configurations.u  > >>> Furthermore, while Oracle has significantly simplified theA configuration process, for RAC it (unlike the single-instance SMPeA approach) still requires characterization of the differences (CPUoF performance, memory capacity, etc.) between the component nodes of theH cluster (unless you want the system to treat your DS10 as a more or lessG equal partner to your ES or GS box), plus arbitrary amounts of tweakinga; depending on the degree of tuning one wishes to perform.<<<-  F Well, cluster 101 typically recommends against putting systems of vast> compute differences into cluster configs where they both shareH read-write access to the same data. Very large SMP config's also requireF a great deal of tuning - especially when dealing with many Gb's of VLM memory.f  G I'm not saying using Oracle RAC is not less work than a single instance.D - just that the amount of additional work is minimal for experienced	 DBA's.=20p  E >>> while RAC makes it *possible* to share data between nodes, you'retE still better off performance-wise if you arrange to minimize the needt1 for this (as usual, access localization wins).<<<-  F With recent versions of 9i RAC / 8i OPS, every system has direct localC access to the same data on the same drives. It no longer depends on-F accessing other systems to get data it requires as it once used to.=20  % Again, it depends on the application.s   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn Compaq Canada Corp.i Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660i Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20 Sent: April 28, 2002 12:59 PM- To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-5 Subject: Re: I was right! Alpha will live in Itanium!       6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EB8@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .  Bill,b  H >>> I rather doubt that Oracle positions RAC as a way to improve overallF performance in general, because  1) it isn't and  2) it's considerablyD more complex to configure and tune than a single Oracle instance.<<<  H I suspect you are not that familiar with Oracle database technologies orB you would not be making this statement. However, here is an Oracle, whitepaper on 9i RAC for you to brush up on.  H "Oracle9i Real Application Clusters - Cache Fusion Delivers Scalability"A http://otn.oracle.com/products/oracle9i/pdf/appclusters_cache.pdfp   ***?  G Thanks, but not only do I already have (and have read) that white papereG but I've also designed and implemented a very similar distributed cache C myself, so I am somewhat more familiar with the technology than youl
 'suspect'.  B I meant (as usual) exactly what I said above.  RAC is not a way toC improve overall performance *in general*, but only after an SMP (or  perhaps slightlyH NUMA) single-Oracle-instance solution has started to run out of gas:  as@ long as the SMP solution has not started to encounter locking orG bandwidth contention problems, it is a significantly more efficient waypE to handle the database.  IOW, RAC enhances not performance per se (if G you can get along well without it, you'll perform better using the same  resources) but scalability.   H Furthermore, while Oracle has significantly simplified the configurationC process, for RAC it (unlike the single-instance SMP approach) still E requires characterization of the differences (CPU performance, memoryrF capacity, etc.) between the component nodes of the cluster (unless youE want the system to treat your DS10 as a more or less equal partner tokG your ES or GS box), plus arbitrary amounts of tweaking depending on thegG degree of tuning one wishes to perform.  Because (again, unlike the SMPaG approach) tuning (if you take it at all seriously) can be as complex as D with a partitioned database:  while RAC makes it *possible* to shareC data between nodes, you're still better off performance-wise if younD arrange to minimize the need for this (as usual, access localizationG wins).  Indeed, at least as of a couple of years ago Oracle was working B on configurations that allowed you to scale through three stages -< single-instance SMP, through clusters of SMP nodes using theE data-shipping/data-sharing model, to partitioned configurations using G function-shipping between separate clusters of SMP nodes:  they weren't3F doing this for the fun of it, they were doing it because one size (RAC3 in this case) definitely doesn't fit all uses well.c   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:06:25 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!C Message-ID: <5DYy8.218564$GS6.20507463@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EBB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. ..   ...h  E >>> while RAC makes it *possible* to share data between nodes, you'relE still better off performance-wise if you arrange to minimize the needu1 for this (as usual, access localization wins).<<<r  F With recent versions of 9i RAC / 8i OPS, every system has direct localC access to the same data on the same drives. It no longer depends on C accessing other systems to get data it requires as it once used to.b   ***o  > You misunderstood the statement:  it refers to cache locality.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Apr 2002 15:38:00 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)O, Subject: Re: Interesting Job post from Intel= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204281438.3cfae53b@posting.google.com>t  k Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<3CC98830.A09E5F48@firstdbasource.com>...e> > http://appzone.intel.com/jobs/uRequisition.asp?Posting=28590, > Basically, let's move everyone to Itanium.  @ That posting says "Oversee system deployment and the performance8 tuning of database applications on Pentium and Itanium; architectures".  Doesn't sound like what you're describing.a. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:26:14 GMTx1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>w Subject: Re: Itanium troublesl' Message-ID: <3CCCB229.1AA576E6@fsi.net>7   Peter da Silva wrote:- > ) > In article <3CCA2060.38880C49@fsi.net>,:2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:I > > Even so, you still need to ask yourself: Would FreeBSD be where it isd= > > today had it not made certain concessions to "usability"?r > E > Why do you phrase that in terms that imply improving usability is a. > "concession"?c   Because:   Sander Vesik wrote:v > C > In comp.arch Tarjei T. Jensen <tarjei.jensen@kvaerner.com> wrote:  > >s > > "Ketil MaldeJ > >> I mean, why do you expect people to think "product" -- that is, solveK > >> problems for end users who are unwilling to solve them for themselves,S- > >> when there's no motivation for doing so?O > >>M > > If I think product, I solve the problem before it occurs. That saves me a=P > > lot of time since I don't have to explain my mistakes over and over again toO > > people. And I save a lot of time for those people as well since they do notLL > > have to spend a lot of time trying to solve a problem which should never > > have been. > ><K > > Reading books on usability should be a requirement for all programmers.- > >- > G > Having a clue about how FreeBSD and similar projects happen should behC > compulsory, so nobody would ever say something as stupid as that.o   That should answer it, I think.    -- y David J. Dachtera: dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/P   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 06:14:11 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)) Subject: Re: MAIL on VMS and attachments.e; Message-ID: <3cccc893.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   . Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) wrote:? > "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes: 7 > > Does VMS mail have the ability to send attachments?  > > C > > I distinctly remember sending a "binary" with VMS one time manyh' > > years ago or did I just imagine it?e >vA > MAIL/FOREIGN is only documented in the X.25/X.29 documentation,h- > [...]  But it works wherever VMSmail works.h >eB > Of course this is not the same format as the "attachment" formatD > used by SMTP, so you should have a VMS system at both ends.  [...]  A In MultiNet and TCPware, if you MAIL/FOREIGN/TYPE=1, you will getvD a standard MIME encoded mail, which can be received by any compliant client.w   cu,.   Martin -- >F                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deiF  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:57:19 GMTu4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Network Delay?i? Message-ID: <j7%y8.62019$o66.187957@news-server.bigpond.net.au>-  / You have not given much information to go on...M  J Your write() call returns an error?  What is the error?  Is that the cause- of the delays you are seeing at the receiver.x  J If you suspect unusual network delays then start using ping and tracerouteJ to observe your times.  Are you seeing any packet loss? Try: "$ netstat -pF tcp".  To see the counters of the LAN driver use "$ mcr lancp show dev ewa0/count".  ' When was the last time you ran autogen?f   Matt.    --= -------------------------------------------------------------l OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporationn Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------     , "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message7 news:873e96d6.0204252045.1f4b6d85@posting.google.com...  > Hi,i >OB > I have a server which dispatchs data thro' network to 200 socketE > connections.  The receivers have message delay and the buffer IO of.A > the sender machine is just less than 300.  However, there is nop7 > remarkable delay when the number of connection is 90.R >TD > Moreover, with 200 connections, there are errors in writing to theD > socket with the following C call.  The socket option is set to non > blocking. / > int write ( int d, void *buffer, int nbytes);  > E > I suspect that there is delay in the network which makes the sockett+ > buffer overflow. Am I in the right track?h >?E > Furthermore, I have found the command 'mc lancp sh config' to check09 > the network interface, but how is the data interpreted?i >n > $ mc lancp sh config >o > LAN Configuration:: > Device Parent Medium/User Version Speed Size LAN Address@ > ------ ------ ----------- ------- ----- ---- -----------------@ > EWA0           CSMA/CD    Unknown  100  1500 00-00-F8-1A-D5-46 >e) > Thanks in advance for any ideas/inputs,g >D > Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:38:48 GMTl) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)n$ Subject: Re: Openvm 7.3 and DECevent2 Message-ID: <3ccca371.3359516569@news.wcc.govt.nz>  D On 25 Apr 2002 07:08:38 -0700, ghairst@mcvh-vcu.edu (G. W. Hairston) wrote:  q >ghairst@mcvh-vcu.edu (G. W. Hairston) wrote in message news:<1ef525c1.0204241101.50cea19c@posting.google.com>... F >> Please give me insight on installing Decevent under openvms 7.3. We( >> are new at using openvms.  Thank you. >l >  >4/25/02P >Is it necessary to increase the JTquota and PGLLQUO if it was currently running >under v7.2-1? >E Don't think so, at least I do not recall changing either of these. We:2 have DECEvent in a Cluster with a common UAF file.( Why do you think it needs to be changed?   >u= >Has any ever installed Compaq Availibity Manager on desktop.B >lC Yes. Currently running 2.0.1, the analyser is on an NT Desktop, the.B agents on all my VMS boxes. A mix of VAXes and Alphas on 7.2 & 7.3' (VAXes) and 7-2.1, 7.2.2 & 7.3 (Alphas)     >Thank you for your cooperation.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Apr 2002 21:11:03 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>J( Subject: Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS5 Message-ID: <20020428211103.4439.qmail@gacracker.org>Y  C On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:- >Doc.Cypher wrote:G > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:  > >>$ > >> For newer releases of Compaq C: > >> > >> /warn=enable=(level4) > >> > >> And I prefer: > >>$ > >> /warn=enable=(level4,questcode) > >  > >: > > Thanks!n > >eF > > Should the /standard and /prefix lines remain or should it just be > > the /warn? g >oC >I generally let the /standard default to /standard=RELAXED_ANSI89.Y, >Stricter compliance should not hurt though. >iI >The /prefix=all is required by a lot of code.  It is used for resolving  E >routines in the Compaq C RTL that are not specified by the compiler e >standards.w   Thanks John,  % I've changed that line in the page to   >     /standard=ansi89/prefix=all/warn=enable=(level4,questcode)  F I'd welcome any comments on the rest of the page, I am sure that David1 Mathog did not intend it to be a static document.D  0 https://vmsbox.cjb.net/VMS/UNIX_TO_VMS_NOTES.TXT     Doc. -- 76 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netl   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Apr 2002 14:53:30 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For   New Chip = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204281353.59158521@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CCC2628.C2CDC51E@fsi.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CCB6613.4809B716@fsi.net>... > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > > >  > > > > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020427065618.10491.qmail@gacracker.org>... C > > > > > On 26 Apr 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: 	 > > > > >- > > > > > <snip>	 > > > > >  > > > > > >disclaimer:T > > > > > >The opinions expressed by myself on this board do not necessarily reflectR > > > > > >those of other self appointed vms experts on this board.  I am the onlyR > > > > > >poster on this board who is totally clueless ... all other posters knowP > > > > > >all the future holds for vms, and should not be confused with myself.	 > > > > >wR > > > > > Look, it's not a board. It is a NEWSGROUP, or for some people, a mailing2 > > > > > list. Please get your terminology right.	 > > > > > S > > > > > As to your comments about "other self appointed vms experts", well I find2T > > > > > what they post far more plausible. Stating that Alpha will live in ItaniumU > > > > > suggests that Itanium will either change to using the Alpha instruction setsU > > > > > or the EPIC core will be replaced with the RISC core from Alpha. Neither of Q > > > > > these seems likely to happen. What does seem likely is that some of the=N > > > > > non-specific features from the Alpha processor will be grafted on toN > > > > > Itanium. This will not make the damn thing an Alpha processor. Okay?	 > > > > >i > > > > > Doc. > > > > N > > > > well I say you are wrong ... I say for Intel to stay competitive, theyM > > > > will have to drop the epic boat anchor ... are you saying there is no-P > > > > chance at all of this happening?  And the last time I checked, the firstN > > > > ammendment was still in force ... or has communism already got to thisO > > > > board?  Should I refer to you as heir doc and Bill Todd as heir genius?  > > >a > > > Um, Bob? > > > + > > > Do you know anyone who speaks German?  > > > M > > > I don't speak it myself, but the little I know includes this: "heir" is H > > > an Angloid extraction, generally meaning one who stands to inheritM > > > (whatever). The word you probably want is "herr", roughly equivalent torJ > > > "mister", "sir", or perhaps "brother", depending upon the supporting > > > context... > > >mJ > > > ...to the best of my extremely limited knowledge. Perhaps one of theN > > > German posters can offer a better explanantion, if they are so inclined. > >  > > I'm part german ...  > > > I'm all Polish, but I know extremely little of the language.   you're not a "ski" like me ...   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Apr 2002 14:55:35 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For   New Chipi= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204281355.316a1552@posting.google.com>r  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CCC2628.C2CDC51E@fsi.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CCB6613.4809B716@fsi.net>... > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:a > > > >e > > > > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020427065618.10491.qmail@gacracker.org>...sC > > > > > On 26 Apr 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:f	 > > > > >e > > > > > <snip>	 > > > > >h > > > > > >disclaimer:T > > > > > >The opinions expressed by myself on this board do not necessarily reflectR > > > > > >those of other self appointed vms experts on this board.  I am the onlyR > > > > > >poster on this board who is totally clueless ... all other posters knowP > > > > > >all the future holds for vms, and should not be confused with myself.	 > > > > > R > > > > > Look, it's not a board. It is a NEWSGROUP, or for some people, a mailing2 > > > > > list. Please get your terminology right.	 > > > > >mS > > > > > As to your comments about "other self appointed vms experts", well I findiT > > > > > what they post far more plausible. Stating that Alpha will live in ItaniumU > > > > > suggests that Itanium will either change to using the Alpha instruction setaU > > > > > or the EPIC core will be replaced with the RISC core from Alpha. Neither ofRQ > > > > > these seems likely to happen. What does seem likely is that some of the)N > > > > > non-specific features from the Alpha processor will be grafted on toN > > > > > Itanium. This will not make the damn thing an Alpha processor. Okay?	 > > > > >o > > > > > Doc. > > > >aN > > > > well I say you are wrong ... I say for Intel to stay competitive, theyM > > > > will have to drop the epic boat anchor ... are you saying there is notP > > > > chance at all of this happening?  And the last time I checked, the firstN > > > > ammendment was still in force ... or has communism already got to thisO > > > > board?  Should I refer to you as heir doc and Bill Todd as heir genius?e > > >r > > > Um, Bob? > > >h+ > > > Do you know anyone who speaks German?s > > >aM > > > I don't speak it myself, but the little I know includes this: "heir" iseH > > > an Angloid extraction, generally meaning one who stands to inheritM > > > (whatever). The word you probably want is "herr", roughly equivalent tohJ > > > "mister", "sir", or perhaps "brother", depending upon the supporting > > > context... > > >iJ > > > ...to the best of my extremely limited knowledge. Perhaps one of theN > > > German posters can offer a better explanantion, if they are so inclined. > >  > > I'm part german ...  > > > I'm all Polish, but I know extremely little of the language.  < I know something that can help you ... try listening to some Bobby Vinton records ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:18:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eY Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FG, Message-ID: <3CCC591F.5125165D@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:oJ > point and why it failed in the early 80's ... they had estimated becauseI > of that risc would always outperform epic on a compiler basis, and moreiG > importantly felt parallel (EV8) was the way to go ... eventually theydK > will come to the same conclusions and have to throw that boat anchor off!   H Ok, lets say IA64 has a certain instruction set. Would it be possible toM transform IA64 into a RISC chip where the parralelism is done by the chip andtG just tweak the compilers to stop trying to force explicit parralelism ?S  G I.E. is IA64's INSTRUCTION SET highly dependant on EPIC, or would it beuL possible to create a RISC chip with the same instruction set (with perhaps aJ few "EPIC" instructions becoming NO-OP, and a few new ones added) and thusI would maintain some binary compatibility with older applications compiled- during IA64's EPIC years ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:29:54 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iY Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Fi' Message-ID: <3CCCB305.7470187A@fsi.net>n   Bob Ceculski wrote:A > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CCC2628.C2CDC51E@fsi.net>... > > Bob Ceculski wrote:w > > >ef > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CCB6613.4809B716@fsi.net>... > > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:r	 > > > > >c > > > > > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020427065618.10491.qmail@gacracker.org>...cE > > > > > > On 26 Apr 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:* > > > > > >u > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >r > > > > > > >disclaimer:V > > > > > > >The opinions expressed by myself on this board do not necessarily reflectT > > > > > > >those of other self appointed vms experts on this board.  I am the onlyT > > > > > > >poster on this board who is totally clueless ... all other posters knowR > > > > > > >all the future holds for vms, and should not be confused with myself. > > > > > >/T > > > > > > Look, it's not a board. It is a NEWSGROUP, or for some people, a mailing4 > > > > > > list. Please get your terminology right. > > > > > >tU > > > > > > As to your comments about "other self appointed vms experts", well I find"V > > > > > > what they post far more plausible. Stating that Alpha will live in ItaniumW > > > > > > suggests that Itanium will either change to using the Alpha instruction set W > > > > > > or the EPIC core will be replaced with the RISC core from Alpha. Neither ofwS > > > > > > these seems likely to happen. What does seem likely is that some of theaP > > > > > > non-specific features from the Alpha processor will be grafted on toP > > > > > > Itanium. This will not make the damn thing an Alpha processor. Okay? > > > > > >  > > > > > > Doc.	 > > > > >tP > > > > > well I say you are wrong ... I say for Intel to stay competitive, theyO > > > > > will have to drop the epic boat anchor ... are you saying there is noVR > > > > > chance at all of this happening?  And the last time I checked, the firstP > > > > > ammendment was still in force ... or has communism already got to thisQ > > > > > board?  Should I refer to you as heir doc and Bill Todd as heir genius?o > > > >v > > > > Um, Bob? > > > >m- > > > > Do you know anyone who speaks German?p > > > > O > > > > I don't speak it myself, but the little I know includes this: "heir" is'J > > > > an Angloid extraction, generally meaning one who stands to inheritO > > > > (whatever). The word you probably want is "herr", roughly equivalent tooL > > > > "mister", "sir", or perhaps "brother", depending upon the supporting > > > > context... > > > >yL > > > > ...to the best of my extremely limited knowledge. Perhaps one of theP > > > > German posters can offer a better explanantion, if they are so inclined. > > >s > > > I'm part german ...h > > @ > > I'm all Polish, but I know extremely little of the language. > > > I know something that can help you ... try listening to some > Bobby Vinton records ...  0 As "The Captain" said to Mrs. Muir, "Oh, blast!"   -- a David J. Dachtera2 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:05:13 -0400K( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>G Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: is there a DSL router with a console?!a/ Message-ID: <ucosgrg91lptf0@corp.supernews.com>   F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KGY7QIKCKA8Y6W8D@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...nJ > For my hobbyist setup, I have a LAN behind an ISDN router.  I have fixedC > IP addresses.  I am thinking of adding DSL because flat rates areeG > available.  I don't know of anyone who offers fixed IP addresses withbE > DSL.  DHCP is not an option because, again, making the names of the,G > machines known to the world is an extra service which is probably noty0 > available with a standard cheap flat-rate DSL.  C     I have my DSL thru Speakeasy.net. They allow and encourage homet,     servers and you get a static IP address.     mike   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:28:32 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> G Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: is there a DSL router with a console?! ' Message-ID: <3CCCB2B3.74A20823@fsi.net>c   Mike Foley wrote:R > [snip]E >     I have my DSL thru Speakeasy.net. They allow and encourage homeu. >     servers and you get a static IP address.  B Is this perhaps something you can make a buck off of? Supplemental income, at least?t   -- y David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Apr 2002 15:27:55 -07001 From: KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companyg= Message-ID: <6ec1251e.0204281427.5e926b9d@posting.google.com>-  ^ "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<l2cy8.134017$G72.81535@sccrnsc01>...J > (VMS represents about $2B annually to Compaq according to Terry Shannon)  B As I recall, the quote Terry was referring to at the time actuallyE stated there were $2B in VMS _services_ revenues alone, not total VMS 	 revenues.s. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:19:03 GMT01 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>h1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companyh+ Message-ID: <bc1z8.26646$vX.3776@rwcrnsc53>   > "Keith Parris" <KeithParris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:6ec1251e.0204281427.5e926b9d@posting.google.com...e5 > "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> wrote in messagen* news:<l2cy8.134017$G72.81535@sccrnsc01>...L > > (VMS represents about $2B annually to Compaq according to Terry Shannon) >nD > As I recall, the quote Terry was referring to at the time actuallyG > stated there were $2B in VMS _services_ revenues alone, not total VMSo > revenues.P0 > ----------------------------------------------0 > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org  K That might have been the case then. Right now, if I was to guesstimate, I'd6J go with $2B aggregate VMS revenues per year. And I would be of the opinion  that said estimate would be low.  G Still, better than believing the $3.8B figure. And still a lot of moneyc IMHO!O   Best,    terry st   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:49:43 -07008' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i0 Subject: Re: Web based/encrypted printing (O.T.)+ Message-ID: <3CCC5257.4DC340C4@caltech.edu>1   Michael Austin wrote:l > C > do you have a list of these printers or terminal servers that cans? > interface into standard printers that support these features?/  1 That's the thing - I don't know of _ANY_ printersQ5 that support this sort of thing. I recall a reference'2 (but not a manufacturer's name) to an external box0 that can do something along these lines (but not1 exactly the same) for HP printers  It wouldn't beh1 particularly difficult to build something similarb= using Linux and place it between the printer and the network. 7 But the whole point of my post was that this capabilityb4 could be incorporated into the printer itself and so8 eliminate the need for one extra box per secure printer.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:18:51 GMTd) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) 0 Subject: Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?2 Message-ID: <3ccc9d51.3357949265@news.wcc.govt.nz>  5 On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:09:47 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"e <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  F >I didn't find the message this evening, but this afternoon I saw (viaD >Google) a post which suggested that "affordable" = "cheap, shitty". >pG >Should this be the topic of another on-line survey? I'd really like tosF >know if I'm the only one who equates "affordable" to "good stuff at aH >reasonable price" (read, for the "average consumer": "not more than one >paycheck"). >_ >Whaddaya think?  A I think it depends on whether you're asking the technical folk ord accountants.E VMS Clusters still offer low TCO, but that doesn't seem to count whene the initial outlay is higher.eE I'm continually baffled by how accounting practises seem to make what F looks like a higher cost option to be cheaper because of short term vs long term costs.  E The "off the shelf is cheaper" mantra that has played endlessly still E holds sway. I'd love to see how the figures actually stack up as I'veND seen a few "off the shelf" packages that have both failed to deliver1 and been incredibly expensive over the long haul.   E I don't really know where "affordable" fits in in most organisations. @ It only becomes significant when competing products have similar features,  performance etc.    >u >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/s >-) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:o  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:03:47 -0400.1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>e0 Subject: Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?2 Message-ID: <3CCCAA03.C7D82409@firstdbasource.com>   Rob Buxton wrote:  > 7 > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:09:47 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"r  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > H > >I didn't find the message this evening, but this afternoon I saw (viaF > >Google) a post which suggested that "affordable" = "cheap, shitty". > > I > >Should this be the topic of another on-line survey? I'd really like tonH > >know if I'm the only one who equates "affordable" to "good stuff at aJ > >reasonable price" (read, for the "average consumer": "not more than one > >paycheck"). > >  > >Whaddaya think? > C > I think it depends on whether you're asking the technical folk orm > accountants.G > VMS Clusters still offer low TCO, but that doesn't seem to count whenl > the initial outlay is higher.aG > I'm continually baffled by how accounting practises seem to make what H > looks like a higher cost option to be cheaper because of short term vs > long term costs. > G > The "off the shelf is cheaper" mantra that has played endlessly stilluG > holds sway. I'd love to see how the figures actually stack up as I'veeF > seen a few "off the shelf" packages that have both failed to deliver3 > and been incredibly expensive over the long haul.m > G > I don't really know where "affordable" fits in in most organisations.pB > It only becomes significant when competing products have similar > features,  performance etc.s >  > >? > >--  > >David J. Dachtera > >dba DJE Systems > >http://www.djesys.com/I > >f+ > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:i" > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  D When companies continually use accounting practices that satisfy theG morons on wall street, this is what you get.  Idiots that can no longeriG calculate TCO.  I do not know how many times over the past 6 years as aI3 consultant I have heard cnversations to the effect:sH  "I saved my company $1M by NOT buying xyz that would improve throughput	 by 20%"   %   - how much downtime did you have.. t"   "Oh, only about 15hours or so. "H   - So let's do a bit of math.  The cost per hour for your manufacturingE site to be down is $300K/hr and because you did not invest wisely, it 0 actually cost you $4.5M because you saved $1M???+  "Wweelll, now that you put it that way..."   	 SHEESH!!! G No wonder businesses are in the shape they are in...  Even  my 16yr oldn= son knows more about economics than these so-called "experts"   > (not a great example, but it is late and I have had enough for tonight....) --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163.7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:39:16 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>S0 Subject: Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?' Message-ID: <3CCCB535.EA887B9C@fsi.net>D   Michael Austin wrote:. >  > Rob Buxton wrote:m > >e9 > > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:09:47 GMT, "David J. Dachtera" " > > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > >oJ > > >I didn't find the message this evening, but this afternoon I saw (viaH > > >Google) a post which suggested that "affordable" = "cheap, shitty". > > >dK > > >Should this be the topic of another on-line survey? I'd really like to.J > > >know if I'm the only one who equates "affordable" to "good stuff at aL > > >reasonable price" (read, for the "average consumer": "not more than one > > >paycheck"). > > >s > > >Whaddaya think? > >cE > > I think it depends on whether you're asking the technical folk oro > > accountants.I > > VMS Clusters still offer low TCO, but that doesn't seem to count when ! > > the initial outlay is higher.tI > > I'm continually baffled by how accounting practises seem to make what J > > looks like a higher cost option to be cheaper because of short term vs > > long term costs. > >lI > > The "off the shelf is cheaper" mantra that has played endlessly still I > > holds sway. I'd love to see how the figures actually stack up as I've H > > seen a few "off the shelf" packages that have both failed to deliver5 > > and been incredibly expensive over the long haul.  > > I > > I don't really know where "affordable" fits in in most organisations. D > > It only becomes significant when competing products have similar > > features,  performance etc.e > >h > > >  > > >--- > > >David J. Dachtera > > >dba DJE Systems > > >http://www.djesys.com/  > > >.- > > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:c$ > > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > F > When companies continually use accounting practices that satisfy theI > morons on wall street, this is what you get.  Idiots that can no longeruI > calculate TCO.  I do not know how many times over the past 6 years as at5 > consultant I have heard cnversations to the effect:lJ >  "I saved my company $1M by NOT buying xyz that would improve throughput	 > by 20%"o& >   - how much downtime did you have..$ >   "Oh, only about 15hours or so. "J >   - So let's do a bit of math.  The cost per hour for your manufacturingG > site to be down is $300K/hr and because you did not invest wisely, itd2 > actually cost you $4.5M because you saved $1M???- >  "Wweelll, now that you put it that way..."a >  > SHEESH!!!gI > No wonder businesses are in the shape they are in...  Even  my 16yr oldu? > son knows more about economics than these so-called "experts"t > @ > (not a great example, but it is late and I have had enough for > tonight....)  G I've frequently said - and it's rarely been understood: "How much money  can you AFFORD to save?"  F If cost to acquire is the obstacle, why to "they" keep harping on TCO?  B Face it: in such cases, cost to acquire is the obstacle. TCO means6 "precisely dick!" (as the man said in "Men In Black").   -- 0 David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems@ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:54:54 GMTo. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: X session3 Message-ID: <isYy8.41491$QJ3.474930@news.chello.at>a  Z In article <3CC24BC9.8090607@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: >James Wiley wrote:oB > > Can anyone tell me how to start an X session on a Open/VMS 7.1  B It's "OpenVMS VAX V7.1" or "OpenVMS Alpha V7.1" not "Open/VMS" ;-)   > > system?4  C Usually (eg. for customizations) @DECW$SESSIONCOM (without .COM !!)t  J DECW$SESSIONCOM points normally to SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTSM.COM which doesJ besides some setup tasks (sylogin, workingset,...) invoke DECW$SESSION.EXE  @ >            I am trying to use Starnet's X-Win32 to set up an XH > > session, and I don't know what command to send the VMS system to get > > the X server going.a >cE >IIRC: after you use the SET DISPLAY command, then the image would bes >SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$SESSION.EXE  C I don't know what Starnet's X-Win32 supports/knows as host systems,aI but even without host support, it will work (but you have to do more ;-).   J The recent versions of eXcursion do support VMS/DCL as OS/CLI and thereforG know exactly how to set a display and you thus only need to specify thefJ imagename - or a dollar sign and a DCL command (means "$@DECW$SESSIONCOM")  K Previous versions of eXcursion did not set the display itself and thereforemF required a little work. Eg. there has been a SYS$SYSTEM:PCX$SERVER.COMD (provided by what ? maybe DECnet/DOS or PCSA or who knows) which didH the work on the host. But IIRC it did it for the DECnet transport and soI may or may not support the TCPIP transport (I beleive, it did support TCP* in the latest versions)   I It was called with parameters like version#, server#, screen#, transport,x nodename or similar.  D So, if X-Win32 doesn't support DCL, you need to specify the commandsD to setup the display and invoke the image all by yourself. You couldC use the PIPE command of newer versions of VMS (like yours) or use a C copy of above mentioned PCX$SERVER.COM. X11 servers for Win usuallyiD do support more than one method to connect to the host, but REXEC isC mostly the minimum (other methods are RSH, TELNET and DECnet-Task).t  $ So, via DCL PIPE, you could specify:  @ PIPE SET DIS/CR/TR=TCPIP/NO=a.b.c.d/SE=x/SC=y ; @DECW$SESSIONCOM  * or, via PCX$SERVER.COM, you could specify:  ? @SYS$SYSTEM:PCX$SERVER.COM 4 0 0 TCP a.b.c.d "@DECW$SESSIONCOM"   D > > Also, years ago, when we first got our VMS system, we used a DEC9 > > product called eXcursion, but it doesn't work anymorei  E Which version ? On what M$ application launcher (DOS, WFW, W9x,...) ?tD What is the error message ? Please be more specific the next time...  H >                                                          - what is the0 > > follow on product for that, or is there one? >  >eXcursion.a > / >It is sold as part of the Pathworks32 product.   G eXcursion is still alive, but is now integrated/included (just like the E PowerTerm 525 Terminal Emulator product) in the PATHWORKS-32 product.r  + 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks32/n  F Since M$ integrated a TCPIP capability in their OS imitating products,J the usefulness of the PATHWORKS client (DECnet for M$ and also LAT for M$)A decreased dramatically and so DEC decided to include the formerly B standalone product eXcursion into the PATHWORKS Client (previouslyK DECnet-DOS) and named it then PATHWORKS-32 (as it was no longer 16bit then)i( just to keep the PATHWORKS Client alive.  H btw: Last time I checked, PATHWORKS-32 was cheaper (but not better ! eg.J I had 10% performance advantage with NCD PCXware over eXcursion for normalL work or 600% performance advantage for downloading fonts by twice the price)L then a pure X11 server of the competion and/or a pure good terminal emulator of the competition. YMMV  I PATHWORKS-32 V7.2 is current and officially supports also NT5 (= Win2000) K and the euro-sign. It does also run on XP, but only in W2K compabilty mode.e  O PATHWORKS-32 V7.3 already entered field test & will soon officially support XP.i   HIHo   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialistb E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.235 ************************