1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 30 Apr 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 238       Contents: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV  6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought # RE: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought # Re: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought # Re: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought # Re: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought 
 Re: AIM HACK? 
 Re: AIM HACK? 
 Re: AIM HACK? 
 Re: AIM HACK? % Annoying behavior on Telnet (UCX 4.1) ) Re: Annoying behavior on Telnet (UCX 4.1) ) Re: Annoying behavior on Telnet (UCX 4.1) + Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards 2 Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?6 Re: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?6 Re: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?* Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache)* Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache) Civil Engineering site2 Re: COPY/RCP fails to remote node (UCX4.2 VMS 7.1)4 Re: creat function hanging -- Code snippet provided! Create AF_LAT socket?  Re: Create AF_LAT socket? H Re: dBASE IV package/license for VMS VAX, product status?  Transferable?+ Re: DCL labels out of scope after ON ERROR? + Re: DCL labels out of scope after ON ERROR?  DCPS Help Required..........  Re: DCPS Help Required..........: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows Re: Digital 7-year plan... Re: Digital 7-year plan... Re: download VMS Re: download VMS  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE Re: Gold key( GUI VMS application on Linux workstation Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.2  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Link dirs to Anonymous ftp Re: Link dirs to Anonymous ftp RE: Link dirs to Anonymous ftp Re: Network Delay? OSU vs. CSWS Re: OSU vs. CSWS Re: OSU vs. CSWS Re: OSU vs. CSWS Ranking violaton in MDMS V4.0 ! RE: Ranking violaton in MDMS V4.0   Re: Reduce interupt time on CPU05 Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 RE: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? , Re: removing extra carriage return/line feed, Re: removing extra carriage return/line feed, Re: removing extra carriage return/line feed! Running CSWS 1.2 on Alpha VMS 7.2  Test for DRM RE: Test for DRM Re: Test for DRM RE: Test for DRM Re: Test for DRM Re: Test for DRM* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product RE: VMS SCAN product RE: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product RE: VMS SCAN product VMS SCAN product RE: VMS SCAN product2 ZIP strangeness (search list as part of file spec)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:29:01 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>  Subject: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV/ Message-ID: <3CCE32A5.8C4034F4@wasd.vsm.com.au>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: 
 8< snip 8<H >   I'm also trying to get you away from the chainsaw that is SYSPRV; toG >   encourage you to use simple hand-tools entirely appropriate for the 6 >   task at hand, tools such as subsystem identifiers.  H I understand this.  I am not ignoring you.  I know it's getting late.  IE plan to look at the issues involved in a protected subsystem schema.  A This will probably be a major shift in the way certain things are H undertaken however and so may not be something that could be implemented	 tomorrow.   F In the meantime this clarified understanding of the role of privilegesG during asynchronous system service processing will allow the code to be D made a little cleaner by eliminating a clunky alternate, synchronousH code path around the requirement to sometimes switch SYSPRV on (as in my examples earlier).  " Thanks again for your input, Mark.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 08:57:48 -0700' From: jbecker@ui.urban.org (Jim Becker) ( Subject: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought= Message-ID: <c113b52c.0204300757.2656ddb6@posting.google.com>   C I'm looking for sage advice, useful warnings, etc. on the following 
 situation.  A Currently, I have an "AlphaServer 4100 5/533 4MB" running OpenVMS E V6.2-1H3. I'm about to buy an AlphaServer ES45, which will be running  7.3.  F I'd like to cluster them for one primary reason: disk sharing. The twoE nodes will be largely independent of each other -- separate purposes, E separate software, separate storage, separate users -- but there will B be some need for tossing files back and forth. For the application> that needs to do this, life will be FAR easier if crossing theD boundary from one box to the other is transparent, hence clustering.  " However, here's the basic problem:4 - A 6.2/7.3 mix doesn't even have migration support., - The minimum OS version for an ES45 is 7.3.C - The 4100 is locked into 6.2-1H3 because of the one application it F will carry after I migrate everything else to the ES45. The app vendor, won't budge; we fought that battle and lost.  A So either a) I run an unsupported mixed two-node cluster, or b) I C break a critical, problem-child application, thereby requiring some A sort of highly unwelcome Rube Goldberg solution to get around the 	 breakage.   D I prefer the first approach (lesser of two evils), so I'm hoping forF your sage advice on how to minimize difficulties of a mixed cluster of 7.3 and 6.2-1H3.  
 Jim Becker   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:02:51 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: RE: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEOJENAA.tom@kednos.com>   8 I have been running 6.2 and 7.3 clustered for some time. No problem.    >-----Original Message----- / >From: Jim Becker [mailto:jbecker@ui.urban.org] & >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:58 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) >Subject: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought  >  > D >I'm looking for sage advice, useful warnings, etc. on the following >situation.  > B >Currently, I have an "AlphaServer 4100 5/533 4MB" running OpenVMSF >V6.2-1H3. I'm about to buy an AlphaServer ES45, which will be running >7.3.  > G >I'd like to cluster them for one primary reason: disk sharing. The two F >nodes will be largely independent of each other -- separate purposes,F >separate software, separate storage, separate users -- but there willC >be some need for tossing files back and forth. For the application ? >that needs to do this, life will be FAR easier if crossing the E >boundary from one box to the other is transparent, hence clustering.  > # >However, here's the basic problem: 5 >- A 6.2/7.3 mix doesn't even have migration support. - >- The minimum OS version for an ES45 is 7.3. D >- The 4100 is locked into 6.2-1H3 because of the one application itG >will carry after I migrate everything else to the ES45. The app vendor - >won't budge; we fought that battle and lost.  > B >So either a) I run an unsupported mixed two-node cluster, or b) ID >break a critical, problem-child application, thereby requiring someB >sort of highly unwelcome Rube Goldberg solution to get around the
 >breakage. > E >I prefer the first approach (lesser of two evils), so I'm hoping for G >your sage advice on how to minimize difficulties of a mixed cluster of  >7.3 and 6.2-1H3.  >  >Jim Becker  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:32:12 -0400 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> , Subject: Re: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought2 Message-ID: <3CCEC70C.B9B4BAFE@clarityconnect.com>  D Assuming that the file sharing is really that the ES45 needs to readC some files on the 4100 then have you checked out DECdfs for OpenVMS : Version 2.3 http://www.compaq.com/info/SP2878/SP2878PF.PDF  F You will be in completely unknown territory if you choose to go to theH unsupported route of having these 2 systems clustered and I believe thatA they are unsupported for a very good reason but we don't document  how/why things are unsupported.    Jim Becker wrote:  > E > I'm looking for sage advice, useful warnings, etc. on the following  > situation. > C > Currently, I have an "AlphaServer 4100 5/533 4MB" running OpenVMS G > V6.2-1H3. I'm about to buy an AlphaServer ES45, which will be running  > 7.3. > H > I'd like to cluster them for one primary reason: disk sharing. The twoG > nodes will be largely independent of each other -- separate purposes, G > separate software, separate storage, separate users -- but there will D > be some need for tossing files back and forth. For the application@ > that needs to do this, life will be FAR easier if crossing theF > boundary from one box to the other is transparent, hence clustering. > $ > However, here's the basic problem:6 > - A 6.2/7.3 mix doesn't even have migration support.. > - The minimum OS version for an ES45 is 7.3.E > - The 4100 is locked into 6.2-1H3 because of the one application it H > will carry after I migrate everything else to the ES45. The app vendor. > won't budge; we fought that battle and lost. > C > So either a) I run an unsupported mixed two-node cluster, or b) I E > break a critical, problem-child application, thereby requiring some C > sort of highly unwelcome Rube Goldberg solution to get around the  > breakage.  > F > I prefer the first approach (lesser of two evils), so I'm hoping forH > your sage advice on how to minimize difficulties of a mixed cluster of > 7.3 and 6.2-1H3. >  > Jim Becker   --  C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:38:48 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> , Subject: Re: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought8 Message-ID: <aamhe9$8fv$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  1 I will second what Bart recommends.  Cheaper too.    Dave...   6 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message) news:3CCEC5EA.6020804@xs4all.nospam.nl...  > Tom Linden wrote: < > > I have been running 6.2 and 7.3 clustered for some time. > > No problem.  > >  > >  > >>-----Original Message-----2 > >>From: Jim Becker [mailto:jbecker@ui.urban.org]) > >>Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:58 AM  > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > >>Subject: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought > >> > >>G > >>I'm looking for sage advice, useful warnings, etc. on the following  > >>situation. > >>E > >>Currently, I have an "AlphaServer 4100 5/533 4MB" running OpenVMS I > >>V6.2-1H3. I'm about to buy an AlphaServer ES45, which will be running  > >>7.3. > >>J > >>I'd like to cluster them for one primary reason: disk sharing. The twoI > >>nodes will be largely independent of each other -- separate purposes, I > >>separate software, separate storage, separate users -- but there will F > >>be some need for tossing files back and forth. For the applicationB > >>that needs to do this, life will be FAR easier if crossing theH > >>boundary from one box to the other is transparent, hence clustering. > >>& > >>However, here's the basic problem:8 > >>- A 6.2/7.3 mix doesn't even have migration support.0 > >>- The minimum OS version for an ES45 is 7.3.G > >>- The 4100 is locked into 6.2-1H3 because of the one application it J > >>will carry after I migrate everything else to the ES45. The app vendor0 > >>won't budge; we fought that battle and lost. > >>E > >>So either a) I run an unsupported mixed two-node cluster, or b) I G > >>break a critical, problem-child application, thereby requiring some E > >>sort of highly unwelcome Rube Goldberg solution to get around the 
 > >>breakage.  > >>H > >>I prefer the first approach (lesser of two evils), so I'm hoping forJ > >>your sage advice on how to minimize difficulties of a mixed cluster of > >>7.3 and 6.2-1H3. > >> > >>Jim Becker > F > OK, maybe no problem. But you have to ask your self if this setup isC > worth the price of a cluster license. If both systems are running F > DECnet, that might be a good enough solution for file sharing, which, > doesn't even require a reboot of the 4100.I > You can use logical names and proxy accounts to make file access almost ! > as transparant as in a cluster.  > 9 > An other option might be DFS, Distributed File Service.  >  > Bart Zorn  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:27:22 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> , Subject: Re: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought/ Message-ID: <3CCEC5EA.6020804@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Tom Linden wrote: : > I have been running 6.2 and 7.3 clustered for some time.
 > No problem.  >  >  >>-----Original Message-----0 >>From: Jim Becker [mailto:jbecker@ui.urban.org]' >>Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:58 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * >>Subject: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought >> >>E >>I'm looking for sage advice, useful warnings, etc. on the following  >>situation. >>C >>Currently, I have an "AlphaServer 4100 5/533 4MB" running OpenVMS G >>V6.2-1H3. I'm about to buy an AlphaServer ES45, which will be running  >>7.3. >>H >>I'd like to cluster them for one primary reason: disk sharing. The twoG >>nodes will be largely independent of each other -- separate purposes, G >>separate software, separate storage, separate users -- but there will D >>be some need for tossing files back and forth. For the application@ >>that needs to do this, life will be FAR easier if crossing theF >>boundary from one box to the other is transparent, hence clustering. >>$ >>However, here's the basic problem:6 >>- A 6.2/7.3 mix doesn't even have migration support.. >>- The minimum OS version for an ES45 is 7.3.E >>- The 4100 is locked into 6.2-1H3 because of the one application it H >>will carry after I migrate everything else to the ES45. The app vendor. >>won't budge; we fought that battle and lost. >>C >>So either a) I run an unsupported mixed two-node cluster, or b) I E >>break a critical, problem-child application, thereby requiring some C >>sort of highly unwelcome Rube Goldberg solution to get around the  >>breakage.  >>F >>I prefer the first approach (lesser of two evils), so I'm hoping forH >>your sage advice on how to minimize difficulties of a mixed cluster of >>7.3 and 6.2-1H3. >> >>Jim Becker  E OK, maybe no problem. But you have to ask your self if this setup is  B worth the price of a cluster license. If both systems are running E DECnet, that might be a good enough solution for file sharing, which  * doesn't even require a reboot of the 4100.H You can use logical names and proxy accounts to make file access almost  as transparant as in a cluster.   7 An other option might be DFS, Distributed File Service.   	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 08:39:22 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: AIM HACK?5 Message-ID: <20020430083922.2401.qmail@gacracker.org>   D On 29 Apr 2002, baltimoreplayboy@yahoo.com (BaltimorePlayboy) wrote:C >Can someone teach/tell me how to push someone off of AIM using the > >buffer underrun thing I've been hearing about? It seems quiteB >effective for online A-holes, but I dont know how to do it. (Even >happened to me once) Thanks!   ' Try http://www.faqs.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt   H It might not answer your question, but it'll certainly tell you what you are doing wrong.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:16:00 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  Subject: Re: AIM HACK?5 Message-ID: <01KH6OYUSNOY00070C@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   E >On 29 Apr 2002, baltimoreplayboy@yahoo.com (BaltimorePlayboy) wrote: D >>Can someone teach/tell me how to push someone off of AIM using the? >>buffer underrun thing I've been hearing about? It seems quite C >>effective for online A-holes, but I dont know how to do it. (Even  >>happened to me once) Thanks! > ( >Try http://www.faqs.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt > I >It might not answer your question, but it'll certainly tell you what you2 >are doing wrong.s  * A candidate for one of your accounts, Doc?   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:01:16 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>e Subject: Re: AIM HACK?5 Message-ID: <20020430090116.2982.qmail@gacracker.org>K  ; On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: F >>On 29 Apr 2002, baltimoreplayboy@yahoo.com (BaltimorePlayboy) wrote:E >>>Can someone teach/tell me how to push someone off of AIM using thet@ >>>buffer underrun thing I've been hearing about? It seems quiteD >>>effective for online A-holes, but I dont know how to do it. (Even  >>>happened to me once) Thanks!  >>) >>Try http://www.faqs.org/rfc/rfc1855.txtu >>J >>It might not answer your question, but it'll certainly tell you what you >>are doing wrong. r > + >A candidate for one of your accounts, Doc?r  K I hope not. Anyway, his mail would go straight in the bit bucket because hefK is using a yahoo email address. Would probably be a bit of a laugh watching   him try to hack anything though.  E If you ever read through alt.2600 or alt.hacker you see these sort ofrC stupid requests all the time (the most popular being "how do I hackoD hotmail?"). The group regulars use such posters for target practice.? Sometimes it's worth reading these threads just for the flames.o  K Directing people to the netiquette RFC is a gentle way of saying you're off.% topic and I think you haven't a clue.r     Doc. -- r6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netS   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:50:32 +0010a% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aue Subject: Re: AIM HACK?5 Message-ID: <01KH6Q6O9YGI00070U@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   , >>A candidate for one of your accounts, Doc? > L >I hope not. Anyway, his mail would go straight in the bit bucket because heL >is using a yahoo email address. Would probably be a bit of a laugh watching! >him try to hack anything though.u   [With snips]  O Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking -- the entertainment you'd get, Doc.   B But then we've got several c.o.v. threads with their entertaining  personalities :;)-   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:17:35 +0100aC From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net> . Subject: Annoying behavior on Telnet (UCX 4.1)8 Message-ID: <d52tcu4heh19eq06kvq0h4ct76j82a9nmm@4ax.com>  > oVMS 7.11H1(alpha) / UCX 4.1 - I know it's old but getting the7 customer system down to upgrade is a rolling nightmare!p  C The customer system has an application which allows access based ontE the host name of the connecting machine - i.e. the host name in $SHOW 7 TERMINAL (specifically the Fortran code is shown below)e    DVI_ITEMLIST(1).LEN         = 64/ DVI_ITEMLIST(1).ITMCODE     = DVI$_TT_ACCPORNAMa/ DVI_ITEMLIST(1).BUFFADDRESS = %LOC(SERVER_PORT)D) DVI_ITEMLIST(1).RETADDRESS  = %LOC(SPLEN)c> STATUS = SYS$GETDVIW(,,DEVICE_NAME(:NAMELEN),DVI_ITEMLIST,,,,)    F The users are connecting via TCP/IP, which has two BIND servers to use, as reference. All records has a 24 hour TTL.  A Recently when moving certain machines about the network, changing B their IP addresses, the DNS records were updated but the ACCPORNAMD (and $SHOW HOST)  picked up the new IP address but didn't resolve itC to the updated A record. This was still occurring after 96 hours (4h times the TTL on the records).  = However if you log in from the terminal and do $UCX SHOW HOSTo< <ip-address>, the correct name appears. Ditto $UCX SHOW HOST8 <terminal-host-name> shows the correct (new) IP address.  F Is there a cache of name server lookups? Is there a control value that< I can't find documented? Or is there a known funny with 4.1?   Any help gratefully received.t   Jamie P Stallwoode   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:21:38 +0100uC From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net> 2 Subject: Re: Annoying behavior on Telnet (UCX 4.1)8 Message-ID: <4v2tcuoekabi3tok973kerlqv6t4bkkfci@4ax.com>  F On a follow up to this, does anyone have FORTRAN examples of using the@ TCP/IP 'item_list_3' to return SOCKADDR_IN data from a $QIO on aC channel with IO$_SENSEMODE? Mine keeps going wrong with SS$_FAIL at6 the moment.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:05:24 +0100 C From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net>l2 Subject: Re: Annoying behavior on Telnet (UCX 4.1)8 Message-ID: <k39tcukgmrclt2gb7ckielp5vnnt20phgp@4ax.com>  = On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:17:37 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Petero LANGSTOEGER) wrote:i   >In article <793tcu4kgclc12sfj6i9sap7lbccmhaj9d@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net> writes:r@ >>oVMS 7.11H1(alpha) / UCX 4.1 - I know it's old but getting the9 >>customer system down to upgrade is a rolling nightmare!r >>H >>The users are connecting via TCP/IP, which has two BIND servers to use. >>as reference. All records has a 24 hour TTL. >>C >>Recently when moving certain machines about the network, changinglD >>their IP addresses, the DNS records were updated but the ACCPORNAMF >>(and $SHOW HOST)  picked up the new IP address but didn't resolve itE >>to the updated A record. This was still occurring after 96 hours (4   >>times the TTL on the records). >oP >Did you also update the PTR RR in the reverse zone "ccc.bbb.aaa.in-addr.arpa" ?P >It would be not the first time, that a network manager didn't update correctly. >-C >Use UCX SHOW HOST/LOCAL to check the local UCX database (UCX$HOST)LJ >and UCX SHOW HOST/NOLOCAL or NSLOOKUP to check the (remote) BIND database >your system is using.  F There aren't any PTR records, and I did check with /LOCAL as well - no
 answer given..   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:39:43 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i4 Subject: Re: Another Microsoft breaking of standards3 Message-ID: <Pt0kNXEHaopp@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  a In article <ucrvpj4ccump07@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: 0 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:K > : has it ever occured to you that it is MUCH SIMPLER to have all software N > : exchange data in a very small number of character sets as opposed to everyT > : piece of software having to be aware of all possible character sets that exist ? > 3 > Sure, that's why the world only uses 6-bit ASCII.   I That's the bleeding-edge folks.  The rest of us are on 5-level Baudot :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:13:13 -07004 From: wcoltters@yahoo.com (Wilson Guerrero-Coltters); Subject: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?d= Message-ID: <ff6f1d30.0204300813.3d48ed76@posting.google.com>   
 Hi everybody,3  E Well, we have an alpha DS10, OpenVMS 7.2-1 I want to backup my system $ disk using the following combination= LD devices+ BACKUP+FTP to PC+burn to CDs using Nero, whatevert? You may ask why bother, well we don't have a tape drive on thist machine, don't ask :-)? The process is very straightforward, and I successfully tested. ? My problem is that at present my system disk occupies 3 CDs andu# I would like to reduce it to 2 CDs. B During the backups I notice that on the system disk there are many files like these:i  ? [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE;1                       389    7-DEC-2000 01:46> [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE_OLD;2                   389  29-DEC-1999 04:06M> [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE_OLD;1                   387  28-MAY-1999 23:23o  8 May I assume that those .EXE_OLD are created by patches?" Can I delete securely those files?   Thanks in advance,   Wilson.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:17:40 +0100o( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>? Subject: Re: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?c( Message-ID: <3CCEC3A4.10409@bigfoot.com>   Wilson Guerrero-Coltters wrote:    >Hi everybody, >aF >Well, we have an alpha DS10, OpenVMS 7.2-1 I want to backup my system% >disk using the following combinationo> >LD devices+ BACKUP+FTP to PC+burn to CDs using Nero, whatever@ >You may ask why bother, well we don't have a tape drive on this >machine, don't ask :-)n@ >The process is very straightforward, and I successfully tested.@ >My problem is that at present my system disk occupies 3 CDs and$ >I would like to reduce it to 2 CDs.C >During the backups I notice that on the system disk there are manyp >files like these: >w@ >[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE;1                       389   >7-DEC-2000 01:46f? >[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE_OLD;2                   389 , >29-DEC-1999 04:06? >[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE_OLD;1                   387 n >28-MAY-1999 23:23 >n9 >May I assume that those .EXE_OLD are created by patches? # >Can I delete securely those files?r >  >Thanks in advance,r >n >Wilson. >iH I doubt that they're created by patches, more likely they're created by D the person doing the installations as a safety copy. You can almost F certainly get rid of them (espescially if you've got a backup of them  somewhere just in case).   -- w, Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:41:31 -0400o1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>a? Subject: Re: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?s2 Message-ID: <3CCEC93B.86033D54@clarityconnect.com>  G Yes those were created by patch kits, see PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY to crossrD reference the times to figure out what kit was installed.  Since youF have had no issues with the new image, yes you may delete the .EXE_OLD files.  
 Martyn wrote:9 > ! > Wilson Guerrero-Coltters wrote:  >  > >Hi everybody, > >-H > >Well, we have an alpha DS10, OpenVMS 7.2-1 I want to backup my system' > >disk using the following combination @ > >LD devices+ BACKUP+FTP to PC+burn to CDs using Nero, whateverB > >You may ask why bother, well we don't have a tape drive on this > >machine, don't ask :-)aB > >The process is very straightforward, and I successfully tested.B > >My problem is that at present my system disk occupies 3 CDs and& > >I would like to reduce it to 2 CDs.E > >During the backups I notice that on the system disk there are manyg > >files like these: > >r@ > >[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE;1                       389 > >7-DEC-2000 01:46o@ > >[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE_OLD;2                   389 > >29-DEC-1999 04:06@ > >[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSMAN.EXE_OLD;1                   387 > >28-MAY-1999 23:23 > >r; > >May I assume that those .EXE_OLD are created by patches? % > >Can I delete securely those files?h > >e > >Thanks in advance,u > > 
 > >Wilson. > > I > I doubt that they're created by patches, more likely they're created by E > the person doing the installations as a safety copy. You can almostsG > certainly get rid of them (espescially if you've got a backup of themw > somewhere just in case). >  > --. > Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   -- tC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:47:04 +0200 % From: "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch>t3 Subject: Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache)e% Message-ID: <3cce5a08$1@news.post.ch>e  
 Hi Warren,  6 Thanks for the info,, but I'm still stuck I am afraid,  7 The operator message seems ok (well it says successful)     8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  30-APR-2002 10:27:53.05  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on GDC1275 Security alarm (SECURITY) on GDC127, system id: 51599e' Auditable event:          Object access 1 Event time:               30-APR-2002 10:27:53.04s" PID:                      26E00B02& Process name:             APACHE$00003$ Username:                 APACHE$WWW/ Process owner:            [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]s Image name:e< GDC127$DRA1:[000000.APACHE.][000000]APACHE_HTTPD.EXE_ALPHA;1 Object class name:        FILEI File name:                _GDC127$DRA1:[APACHE.CGI-BIN]TEST-CGI-VMS.COM;1i$ File ID:                  (2169,4,0) Access requested:         READ" Sequence key:             00B559D7H Status:                   %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion    G However it says it is requesting a READ, should this not be an execute?   ( _but_ the Apache log file disagrees :( .   ...t8 [Tue Apr 30 10:27:53 2002] [error] (1)not owner: exec of- /apache$root/cgi-bin/test-cgi-vms.com; failed0    G APACHE$WWW is the owner of all files under APACHE$ROOT (i.e. the entire.) directory tree), including the login.com, 0 Sorry to be thick but what do you mean by 'MFD'?    G There are no errors reported in the server logs in apache$root:[000000]    regards,   Andrew      A "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragn3 news:6piy8.38$UC6.608366@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...w9 > I usually put an ACL on the file I want to get info on: C > (ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+DELETE+CONTROL+SUCCESS+FAILURE)h > (use edit/acl to put it on). > then $reply/enable=security  >s, > You get a lot less messages flying around. >eF > Also check the login.com file ownerships and/or directory ownerships >sH > Since it looks like it logged in then out quickly (about 1 second). it mighte' > not have gotten to the cgi directory.tD > check the log file in apache$root:[000000] also make sure that the	 directoryiL > tree for your cgi root is accessable all the way back up to the MFD of the > disk.o >e >h > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS Marketing, > Compaq Computer Corporation          Work: warren.sander@remove.compaq.comy0 > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.como5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 7 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfr. >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >n >h >  > >aB > > > "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag9 > > > news:eZcy8.21$Fu6.293930@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...cL > > >> Try turning on access failure audits to determine on which object the > > > access
 > > >> fails:  > > >>/ > > >> $ set audit/alarm/enable=access=fail=allu > > >> $ reply/enabley > > >>D > > >> Then access the script. Do any alarms show up on your screen? >, >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:30:36 GMTe+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>s3 Subject: Re: CGI access problem using CSWS (Apache)o9 Message-ID: <0xAz8.18$Wx1.546847@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   L This error is produced after Apache has attempted to fork the subprocess forI the CGI script. It's also after the file ownership check. The "not owner" H part of the error message is translated from the errno value that's been> returned by the forking code. This will take a little digging.  I I'd suggest logging a call to the CSC to start formal problem resolution.t  
 Rick Barry( Compaq Secure Web Server Deveopment Team OpenVMS Systems Software Group Compaq Computer Corporationp
 Nashua, NH  0 "Andrew Clark" <clarka@post.ch> wrote in message news:3cce5a08$1@news.post.ch...r > Hi Warren, >'8 > Thanks for the info,, but I'm still stuck I am afraid, >-9 > The operator message seems ok (well it says successful)  >h >a: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  30-APR-2002 10:27:53.05  %%%%%%%%%%%* > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on GDC1277 > Security alarm (SECURITY) on GDC127, system id: 51599r) > Auditable event:          Object accessC3 > Event time:               30-APR-2002 10:27:53.04.$ > PID:                      26E00B02( > Process name:             APACHE$00003& > Username:                 APACHE$WWW1 > Process owner:            [AP_HTTPD,APACHE$WWW]n
 > Image name:r> > GDC127$DRA1:[000000.APACHE.][000000]APACHE_HTTPD.EXE_ALPHA;1  > Object class name:        FILEK > File name:                _GDC127$DRA1:[APACHE.CGI-BIN]TEST-CGI-VMS.COM;1 & > File ID:                  (2169,4,0)  > Access requested:         READ$ > Sequence key:             00B559D7J > Status:                   %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion >- >-I > However it says it is requesting a READ, should this not be an execute?- >r* > _but_ the Apache log file disagrees :( . >e > ...D: > [Tue Apr 30 10:27:53 2002] [error] (1)not owner: exec of/ > /apache$root/cgi-bin/test-cgi-vms.com; failed  >n > I > APACHE$WWW is the owner of all files under APACHE$ROOT (i.e. the entireo+ > directory tree), including the login.com,I2 > Sorry to be thick but what do you mean by 'MFD'? >g >oI > There are no errors reported in the server logs in apache$root:[000000]  >i
 > regards, >p > Andrew >n >  >nC > "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragn5 > news:6piy8.38$UC6.608366@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...h; > > I usually put an ACL on the file I want to get info on:rE > > (ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+DELETE+CONTROL+SUCCESS+FAILURE)h  > > (use edit/acl to put it on). > > then $reply/enable=securityb > >b. > > You get a lot less messages flying around. > >gH > > Also check the login.com file ownerships and/or directory ownerships > >oJ > > Since it looks like it logged in then out quickly (about 1 second). it > might ) > > not have gotten to the cgi directory.gF > > check the log file in apache$root:[000000] also make sure that the > directoryeJ > > tree for your cgi root is accessable all the way back up to the MFD of then	 > > disk.o > >e > >  > > --F > > ------------------------------------------------------------------: > > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS Marketing. > > Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:! > warren.sander@remove.compaq.com32 > > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: > sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com 7 > > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875t9 > >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfh0 > >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/F > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >c > >  > >t > > >aD > > > > "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag; > > > > news:eZcy8.21$Fu6.293930@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...wJ > > > >> Try turning on access failure audits to determine on which object thee > > > > access > > > >> fails:- > > > >>1 > > > >> $ set audit/alarm/enable=access=fail=all  > > > >> $ reply/enablew > > > >>F > > > >> Then access the script. Do any alarms show up on your screen? > >e > >- >  >2   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 13:55:57 -0400. From: "Kevin Panagrossi" <quiz2@civilquiz.net> Subject: Civil Engineering siteg; Message-ID: <OSCARwDwOxFmfnXAnk70000a183@oscar.Haestad.com>a  F I really enjoy taking this quiz every month and I'm sure you will too.  < I'm always challenged, but I have gotten a 100% a few times.   You can even win cool prizes..   Play at:0 http://www.haestad.com/e/m.asp?d=28&m=020429CQtb  	 Good LuckM   KP       info-vax@mvb.saic.com not interested in Civil Engineering email? Reply to this message and change the subject to " stop ". 11250b-415264   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:13:44 +0100 - From: "Simon Brown" <simonb@colourcare.co.uk> ; Subject: Re: COPY/RCP fails to remote node (UCX4.2 VMS 7.1)g& Message-ID: <3cce5a11@news.star.co.uk>   Matt,dC We will upgrade, just do not have time for that before integration.sD Thanks for info on 5.1, knowing no syntax changes etc helps on that.  K COPY/FTP is no good as we cannot specify user/password in command files for  security issues.K Anonymous FTP is not the answer as to many different directories collectingO data and again security.  2 I thought COPY/RCP also kept the file attributes ?  K We have support through a third party on Openvms so I cannot chase with CSCnJ or use there online facilities. The third party is "looking" at it but not getting anywhere.e1 Support is something I will re-address next year.   C So, back to original query, any ideas on getting COPY/RCP to work ?a   Thxp   Simonn      = Matt Muggeridge <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> wrote in message 9 news:KKmz8.65879$o66.202038@news-server.bigpond.net.au... J > In the long term, I urge you to use the V5.1 ECO latest release.  If youK > lock down with UCX V4.2, then you may be locking the 8 sites into support 	 > issues.g >gL > > Also do not have time or resource at the moment to go about upgrading toL > > TCPIP 5.1 and undergoing the learning curve for new syntax and modifying > all.K > > my com jobs, programs with submits and spawns of copy and submit tasks.s >-J > Provided you use documented features, then the upgrade from V4.2 to V5.1K > should be seamless.  No need to change command syntax or modify com jobs.7E > There's a learning curve in as much as V5.1 offers new and excitingrK > features, but you don't need to undertake that until you are ready to useI > the new features.t >g> > > Using DECNET phase 4 so I believe cannot do DECNET over IP >> > That's correct.o >c  > >(Different syntax and changesK > > the file format to stream) but so much code with the traditional DECNETt > COPY? > > that would make an already huge job a little more bearable.a >eG > This is why I suggested FTP.  You can use exactly the same syntax for H > COPY/FTP as you do for DECnet COPY.  Also for VMS<->VMS transfers, the file* > attributes are maintained automagically. >i. > > I really need to isolate this problem now. >aK > Then you will need to raise the issue with the CSC as they have the meansn toE > track historical problems.  I'm not sure where V4.2 is with regardse support  > contracts... >  > Matt.  >  > --? > -------------------------------------------------------------h > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Compaq Computer Corporation  > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA ? > -------------------------------------------------------------0 >r >0; > "Simon Brown" <simonjm.brown@virgin.net> wrote in messagen> > news:qkjz8.22510$%k.3882759@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...	 > > Matt,N > >pH > > Ideal world etc I would, But I have a couple of weeks to get 8 sites	 > runningeJ > > on TCPIP to connect our network to new owners network, which is ALL IP ando" > > through there strict firewall.> > > Using DECNET phase 4 so I believe cannot do DECNET over IPL > > Also do not have time or resource at the moment to go about upgrading toL > > TCPIP 5.1 and undergoing the learning curve for new syntax and modifying > all K > > my com jobs, programs with submits and spawns of copy and submit tasks.e > >s. > > I really need to isolate this problem now.F > > The RCP command in itself works to a fashion (Different syntax and changesrK > > the file format to stream) but so much code with the traditional DECNET  > COPY? > > that would make an already huge job a little more bearable.. > >e= > > P.S. This from Home PC so not name probably not matching.S > >10 > > Thx for any info you may be able to provide. > >c	 > > Simon  > >v > > C > > "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> wrote in messageo= > > news:0Bhz8.65301$o66.199676@news-server.bigpond.net.au...aI > > > I don't know why you are seeing this, but would much rather see youy > > runninghH > > > on a more current version of TCP/IP.  Upgrading to at least V5.1 + > latestD > > > ECO, (V5.3 is about to hit the streets too - there was no V5.2	 release).e > > >iA > > > To offer some alternatives, you might try FTP or DECnet/IP:  > > >-A > > > o copy/ftp login.com host22"username password"::login10.com J > > > o Configure DECnet over IP and use same functionality you had in the > past.  > > >8 > > > Matt.2 > > >a > > > --C > > > -------------------------------------------------------------h  > > > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering  > > > Enterprise Computing Group! > > > Compaq Computer Corporation2 > > > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAnC > > > -------------------------------------------------------------L > > >  > > >e> > > > "Simon Brown" <simonb@colourcare.co.uk> wrote in message( > > > news:3ccd5370$1@news.star.co.uk...I > > > > Attempting to use COPY/RCP command to copy file to remote network  > > > > using UCX4.2 > > > > command like;e > > > >C< > > > > copy /rcp login.com host22::users:[brown]login10.com > > > >,# > > > > fails on local node with >>h= > > > > INTERnet ACP AUXS failure  Status = %LOGIN-F-NOTVALIDa > > > > 4 > > > > On remote node I get an OPCOM message saying, > > > > Message from user INTERnet on HOST22K > > > > INTERnet ACP REXEC Accept Request from Host: 10.10.1.1        Port:k > > > > 1738 > > > >s > > > > UCX>@ > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  29-APR-2002 13:38:44.32  %%%%%%%%%%%0 > > > > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on HOST22J > > > > Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on HOST22, > > > > system id: 1524 7 > > > > Auditable event:          Network login failures9 > > > > Event time:               29-APR-2002 13:38:44.31l* > > > > PID:                      0000FAE61 > > > > Process name:             UCX$REXE_BG2590e& > > > > Username:                 ..* > > > > Process owner:            [SYSTEM] > > > > Image name:u9 > > > > HOST22$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE'G > > > > Status:                   %LOGIN-F-NOTVALID, user authorizationR > > > > failure  > > > >;) > > > > Notice the User name is garbage ?eL > > > > Also if I specify the username with /USER=BROWN I get the exact same > > > > response.R > > > >dL > > > > I wanted to use this approach to move from DECNET to TCPIP as I haveK > > > > 100s jobs to change which are already COPY type commands and also IHG > > > > believe it keeps the VMS file attributes whereas RCP changes tod > > > > STREAM.e > > > >s > > > > Any Ideas anyone ? > > > >d > > > >  > > >D > > >. > >a > >w >e >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 07:33:46 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)= Subject: Re: creat function hanging -- Code snippet provided!o= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0204300633.556f9f4f@posting.google.com>t  F IT didn't work, I never did try the DIR/FULL now that I think about itF and i'm sitting down here away from my desk and trying it. However, myD problem still remains. I tried your code snippet word for word and IB still get hangs in the system when trying to create these specific files.   It's getting quite annoying :)  = I sure do wish Compaq had included the source for the RuntimeO> libraries as well because it would be useful to see beyond the( assembler code inside the creat routine.  F Anyway, thank you for your kind help. If you have any more suggestions I would be happy to try them.   Y John Forkosh <john@invalid.com> wrote in message news:<aa9i4c$5s0$1@reader1.panix.com>...y/ > Jeffrey Cameron <bubbapig@hotmail.com> wrote:h > : Actually you can ...B > : it works fine for the 5000+ other files I have run through it.= > Are you sure?  Do a dir/full on the files creat-ed that ways< > and see if the mrs is what you'd expected, or if it's some > "pseudo-random" number. @ >      For it to work like you want, the creat() call would haveB > to be interpretative/interpreted at runtime, which I'm doubting.9 > Otherwise, the string "mrs=length*4+4" just gets passed @ > to creat(), which can't have any idea how to handle your local< > variable `length', even if creat() is willing to parse and# > evaluate expressions in its args.-7 >      But, I've never actually tried what you did, so,m; > like I said originally, just guessing.  I'm also guessingrE > that your dir/full's won't look right vis-a-vis mrs, and apparentlyiC > once in a while the weird arg blows the program out of the water.  > 6 > : I'll give it a try though, it sure can't hurt! :-)) > Please follow up with outcome.  Thanks.0 > * > : John Forkosh <john@invalid.com> wrote:3 > : > Jeffrey Cameron <bubbapig@hotmail.com> wrote: = > : > : I would like to thank you all for your advice so far.e >   9 > : > : The syntax I am passing to the creat function is   >  0M > : > : filedesc = creat(temp, 0777, "alq=36", "mrs=length*4+4", "ctx=xplct",W > : > : "rfm=var");  > : > ? > : > I'm guessing you can't do arithmetic in "mrs=length*4+4".] > : > Try this instead:A > : >  > : > char mrs_string[99];. > : > sprintf(mrs_string,"mrs=%d",length*4+4);Q > : > filedesc = creat(temp, 0777, "alq=36", mrs_string, "ctx=xplct", "rfm=var");t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:40:18 +01008 From: "Fredrik Blomstedt" <fredrik.blomstedt@bnearit.se> Subject: Create AF_LAT socket?( Message-ID: <3cce5872$1@news.wineasy.se>   Hi!b  * How to create a LAT socket and address it?  6 For creating the socket, should it be something like :$ lats = socket(PF_LAT,STREAM,AF_LAT); or?i  2 Were can I get some information about this? How to5 address a LAT-socket with connect, bind, read, write?g  8 I need information about the most common socket commands> like : socket, setsockopt, bind,  connect, read and send - for LAT usage...  	 Please...a   Thanks!r   Greetings Fredrik.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:24:36 +040004 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>" Subject: Re: Create AF_LAT socket?0 Message-ID: <3CCE7EF4.8019854A@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi ! 	under OpenVMS ?K 	Have a look to " Guide to I/O User's Reference","5.4.4 LAT Port Driver QIO  Interface".a   Fredrik Blomstedt wrote: >  > Hi!e > , > How to create a LAT socket and address it? > 8 > For creating the socket, should it be something like :& > lats = socket(PF_LAT,STREAM,AF_LAT); > or?  > 4 > Were can I get some information about this? How to7 > address a LAT-socket with connect, bind, read, write?r > : > I need information about the most common socket commands@ > like : socket, setsockopt, bind,  connect, read and send - for > LAT usage... >  > Please...  > 	 > Thanks!  >  > Greetings Fredrik.   -- e Cheers,oF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222uE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:06:19 +0200-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>rQ Subject: Re: dBASE IV package/license for VMS VAX, product status?  Transferable?c' Message-ID: <3CCE345B.69E7E4BD@aaa.com>r  8 Sounds as a "Collectors Item". I'd put the license paper$ behind glass in a frame on the wall.  8 Hm, I wounder if there might be some hobbyist version...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.>   Rich Jordan wrote: > ? > We have a complete dBASE IV V1.1 for VAX/VMS package that was-8 > purchased through some kind of promotion back in 1991.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Apr 2002 06:19:04 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 4 Subject: Re: DCL labels out of scope after ON ERROR?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dnZvojwbOUM1@localhost>h  , On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:36:10 UTC, "Syltrem" ' <syltremspammenot@videotron.com> wrote:r  F > >Also, DEC BASIC will yell at you at compile time if you try that in	 > >BASIC.d > No it won't! > 8 > It will only complain if you GOTO INSIDE an IF...ENDIFL > And it makes sens that it does. Same way as it is complaining GOTOing into > WHILE, UNTIL, FOR... > L > GOTOing out of a n IF block (or any other block) is not a problem with the* > exception of GOSUB which is NOT a block. >   F GOTO'ing _back_ to before the IF, definitely was a problem. Whether itF is still, I don't know, because after that expererience, I always jumpF forward beyond the ENDIF before going back to the beginning of a loop.F I always assumed that, beacuse of the way it processed the file,  the - DCL parser never saw the IF/ENDIF terminated.   = The other day I came across the following line in one of the iB procedures that I was developing when I came encountered the GOTO  behaviour :   D 	x = 0		! this does nothing more restore sanity to DCL - why I dunno   -- W Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:55:29 +0010.% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au14 Subject: Re: DCL labels out of scope after ON ERROR?5 Message-ID: <01KH6O9EBDHE0006ZU@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>;   Dave Weatherall wrote:- >On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:36:10 UTC, "Syltrem" E( ><syltremspammenot@videotron.com> wrote: >tG >> >Also, DEC BASIC will yell at you at compile time if you try that in-
 >> >BASIC. >> No it won't!  >> s9 >> It will only complain if you GOTO INSIDE an IF...ENDIFhM >> And it makes sens that it does. Same way as it is complaining GOTOing intoo >> WHILE, UNTIL, FOR...  >> aM >> GOTOing out of a n IF block (or any other block) is not a problem with thef+ >> exception of GOSUB which is NOT a block.o >> i >tG >GOTO'ing _back_ to before the IF, definitely was a problem. Whether it G >is still, I don't know, because after that expererience, I always jump 8                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^<                                             you stutter? :-)  G >forward beyond the ENDIF before going back to the beginning of a loop. G >I always assumed that, beacuse of the way it processed the file,  the C. >DCL parser never saw the IF/ENDIF terminated.  K In my experience of a few languages, none of them disbar you from escaping  L *from* a structure.  Into is more difficult, and way back then there was an M acceptable syntax in FORTRAN which permitted this.  Before IF constructs but l into DO loops.  K Compiled languages, e.g. Fortran (mine of choice/employment) will find the iN problem at compile time. DCL will obviously only find a problem at run time.  M When the problem is diagnosed in the compiler/interpreter, the diagnostic it pH gives you might be a bit obscure, since it may not know what caused the O problem in the first place.  Concatenation of such problems can often create a  ! severe head-scratching situation.o  H On the old DECUS site there were a couple of useful programs: one which J analysed IF ... THEN ... [ELSE] ... ENDIF constructs in .COM files, and a N second which simulated debug of DCL codes, written by Laurent Quivogne, which M my personal copy I have enhanced.  The former might be on Hoff's Freeware CD.o  > >The other day I came across the following line in one of the C >procedures that I was developing when I came encountered the GOTO r >behaviour : >o@ >	x = 0		! this does nothing more restore sanity to DCL - why I  >dunno >c  K In DCL, Fortran, C and PL/I codes I have inherited, I have often seen such  J comments.  I don't believe they have any merit excepting for very obscure N buried code.  I assume that you are quoting DCL, so my conjecture is that way I down in a large convoluted procedure symbol X is used irreverently.  The  N solution was not to find what X did (or more probably not do), but to obscure  the procedure even more.  H Apologies to the original authors of that code, there could have been a @ significance, but obscured in the mists of time and then hidden.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 02:25:45 -07006 From: mgattaura@collins-stewart.com (Mandeep Gattaura)% Subject: DCPS Help Required..........m= Message-ID: <781290e2.0204300125.6b01a4b5@posting.google.com>m   All,  A I am trying to set up DCPS, so that I can use postscript forms toa> present data for our users (we are currentl using the OCE FOLED system). I have created the postscript forms, and inserted the formsC into a text library. And ensured that the library is in the printeroC library logical list. I have define forms, and added the postscript>C form in the setup qualifier. But when I do a PRINT/FORM=xyz, with atA dummy postscript file a DCPS error page is printed with the erroreB %DCPS-F-SETUPNOTFOUND. Can anyone tell me where I am going wrong ?  E I have listed all of the relevant DCL commands, that show the setup Ie am using.........e     >>sho que print_q/ful   D Printer queue PRINT_Q, idle, on NODE_1::"ip_rawtcp/PRINT_Q", mounted! form CONTRACT_TXT (stock=DEFAULT) ?   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))o: /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[1,4]F   /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)   >>sho log dcps_lib  0    "DCPS_LIB" = "DCPS$DEVCTL" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)         = "ANSI_LIB/DATA=ANSI"         = "PS_LIB/DATA=POST"   >>DIR SYS$LIBRARY:PS_LIB.TLB   Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]  = PS_LIB.TLB;1             727/729      29-APR-2002 14:17:18.411    Total of 1 file, 727/729 blocks.      * >>LIBRARY/LIST/TEXT SYS$LIBRARY:PS_LIB.TLB= Directory of TEXT library SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]PS_LIB.TLB;1 on  29-APR-2002 16:47:31D Creation date:  29-APR-2002 14:17:18      Creator:  VAX-11 Librarian V04-00? Revision date:  29-APR-2002 14:33:10      Library format:   3.0i> Number of modules:      2                 Max. key length:  39F Other entries:          0                 Preallocated index blocks:     11F Recoverable deleted blocks:      0        Total index blocks used:        1F Max. Number history records:      20      Library history records:        2   CONTRACT_PS  CONTRACT_TXT   >>SHO QUE/FORM/FUL CONTRACT_*h9 Form name                            Number   Description 9 ---------                            ------   -----------iA CONTRACT_PS (stock=DEFAULT)             101   Test Form of CS Ltdu
 Contract NoteeE     /LENGTH=66 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /SETUP=(CONTRACT_PS) /STOCK=DEFAULT  /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=132  A CONTRACT_TXT (stock=DEFAULT)            102   Test Form of CS Ltdn
 Contract NoteYF     /LENGTH=66 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /SETUP=(CONTRACT_TXT) /STOCK=DEFAULT /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=132  - >>PRINT/QUEUE=PRINT_Q/FORM=CONTRACT_PS 123.PSi. >>PRINT/QUEUE=PRINT_Q/FORM=CONTRACT_TXT 123.PS     Thanks Mandeep    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:28:40 GMT'0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>) Subject: Re: DCPS Help Required..........-; Message-ID: <300420021123375697%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>   E In article <781290e2.0204300125.6b01a4b5@posting.google.com>, Mandeepu/ Gattaura <mgattaura@collins-stewart.com> wrote:-  A > I have define forms, and added the postscript form in the setup D > qualifier. But when I do a PRINT/FORM=xyz, with a dummy postscriptI > file a DCPS error page is printed with the error %DCPS-F-SETUPNOTFOUND.   , At first glance, your setup appears correct.  G Is the library PS_LIB.TLB available to the system on which the queue iswF running?  Are any other error messages displayed?  (Do a REPLY /ENABLE; to see if any OPCOM messages appear.)  Do you still get theeE SETUPNOTFOUND message with PRINT /SETUP instead of PRINT /FORM?  Havep> you restarted the queue since defining DCPS_LIB?  (If you haveF DCPS$MAX_STREAMS defined to be more than 1, you will have to make sureF the new queue gets put into a new symbiont process; it might be easier/ to stop all your DCPS queues and restart them.)l   Paul   -- s  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Compaq Computer Corporationt   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 10:14:07 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) C Subject: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows 3 Message-ID: <I55$kJ5ckpOF@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  o In article <0rnz8.56401$%s3.22511873@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:8 > @ > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message. > news:3CC9AEA7.4916823A@firstdbasource.com... >> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >> >? >> > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in messagee2 >> > news:IEnbX4I5irvC@eisner.encompasserve.org...G >> > > DECUServe discussion from Richard Copeland quoted some notice ofsJ >> > > a survey, and for once I liked what I saw, both for privacy and for >> > > question design:i >> >J >> > Well, we tried! ;-} Many lessons learned from the Advocacy Tool, etc. > Not toK >> > mention the www.openvms.org surveys. We did away with evil cookies and- > went/ >> > to IP addresses to minimize double-voting.E >>I >> Oh good, then I can vote, reconnect my DSL (PPPoE) which gets me a new2 >> IP address and vote again :)  > M > But of course you can! In fact, you can disconnect, reconnect, and vote all H > the live-long day. Gee, I might be tempted to do the same thing, but I* > unfortunately have to work for a living. > F > There's a Better Answer: requiring the use of a DECUS Membership ID.  A And there are various methods by which one could stuff the ballotoA box with that as well.  In the end, one might better just realizelA that such surveys are at best an indication of how the people whoFC voted happened to vote, and might not even represent how they feel.a   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 08:58:28 -0700+ From: saad_alexan@hotmail.com (Saad Alexan) # Subject: Re: Digital 7-year plan... = Message-ID: <15858230.0204300758.684c4c20@posting.google.com>3  c norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote in message news:<3CCDD268.76B8860@oracle.com>... # > and before anyone feels compelled $ > to point it out again (!), the url# > is, of course, www.oracle.com/rdba > and I fall on my sword.  >   @ Sorry, I could not find the statement in the page until you haveD pointed out that it still exist. I think I need new pair of glasses!   My Appology. Saad Alexan     > norm lastovica wrote:  > >  > > Saad Alexan wrote: > > >uK > > > I think you are correct. Oracle is no longer interested in marketting E > > > or supporting RDB. Under the RDB page there use to be a MissionrG > > > Statement from Oracle singing the virtues of RDB and how good and J > > > reliable the product is for mission critical applications. Oracle noG > > > longer publish this statement for good reason, they are no longer  > > > interested!  > > 3 > >         this is, of course, nonsense.  the samem5 > > Oracle Rdb Statement of Direction is still on the  > > oracle rdb web site. > >  > >         www.oracle.com.rdb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:19:46 -0400 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com># Subject: Re: Digital 7-year plan...p* Message-ID: <3CCEC422.78990133@oracle.com>  H Rather than making silly claims like "Oracle is no longer interested..."J perhaps next time you can not find a web page, you could ask "does anyone 7 know where the Oracle Rdb Statement of Direction went".o   Saad Alexan wrote: > e > norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote in message news:<3CCDD268.76B8860@oracle.com>... % > > and before anyone feels compelledc& > > to point it out again (!), the url% > > is, of course, www.oracle.com/rdbh > > and I fall on my sword.c > >  > B > Sorry, I could not find the statement in the page until you haveF > pointed out that it still exist. I think I need new pair of glasses! >  > My Appology.
 > Saad Alexane >  > > norm lastovica wrote:t > > >h > > > Saad Alexan wrote: > > > >cM > > > > I think you are correct. Oracle is no longer interested in markettingoG > > > > or supporting RDB. Under the RDB page there use to be a MissionfI > > > > Statement from Oracle singing the virtues of RDB and how good and L > > > > reliable the product is for mission critical applications. Oracle noI > > > > longer publish this statement for good reason, they are no longer  > > > > interested!e > > >l5 > > >         this is, of course, nonsense.  the samet7 > > > Oracle Rdb Statement of Direction is still on then > > > oracle rdb web site. > > >e  > > >         www.oracle.com.rdb   -- n> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:53:58 +0000 (UTC)l1 From: sssslewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)y Subject: Re: download VMSg. Message-ID: <aam7lm$kl6$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  | "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> writes in article <6bcy8.134093$G72.81616@sccrnsc01> dated Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:59:46 GMT:C >"Peter Watkinson" <peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message - >news:3cc9499c.13420359@news.cable.ntl.com...mC >> aha but linux is not free. Especially if you buy it from redhat.  > H >Redhat (and others) take a free distribution and package it for sale toI >those who want a more commercialized version. Redhat's packaged Linux istL >also _considerably_ cheaper than VMS, to the point where the cost is nearly >irrelevant. My point stands...n  L The difference between Redhat Linux and VMS for hobbyists is that it's legalK for a Redhat user to make the CD image available for download.  People hereiD could easily make a VMS CD available, but it would infringe Compaq's
 copyright.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:00:27 +0000 (UTC)>* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Subject: Re: download VMSt2 Message-ID: <aamijb$3g0$1@wilson.uits.indiana.edu>  . In article <aam7lm$kl6$1@newslocal.mitre.org>,4 	sssslewis@lumina.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:~ > "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> writes in article <6bcy8.134093$G72.81616@sccrnsc01> dated Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:59:46 GMT:D >>"Peter Watkinson" <peter.watkinson1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message. >>news:3cc9499c.13420359@news.cable.ntl.com...D >>> aha but linux is not free. Especially if you buy it from redhat. >>I >>Redhat (and others) take a free distribution and package it for sale tosJ >>those who want a more commercialized version. Redhat's packaged Linux isM >>also _considerably_ cheaper than VMS, to the point where the cost is nearlyf  >>irrelevant. My point stands... > N > The difference between Redhat Linux and VMS for hobbyists is that it's legalM > for a Redhat user to make the CD image available for download.  People here;F > could easily make a VMS CD available, but it would infringe Compaq's > copyright.    G Hmm.  Its been my impression that you can install VMS on any number of sM machines from a single CD and that's ok, since the media and the license are  M sold separately.  In fact, when I first got a hold of the hobbyist licenses, rK the advice for upgrading was 'find someone who's got the CD and borrow it'..N This is very similar to the Linux situation where the media is copyrighted butF anyone can copy it.  The licenses for using the software, however, are substantially different.  O If Compaq didn't want to mess with putting VMS (and ConDist) images up on their-N FTP site, they could always change the license for the _media_ to allow others1 to make it available via download, copies, etc.      Briani   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:55:09 -04009- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>m) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEi5 Message-ID: <aam7om$c3jnv$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>b  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CCDF409.7FE15E62@fsi.net...d >...G > I have rather an extensive EDTINI.EDT file. I cannot justify making aoG > career out of converting it to TPU. Would have been nice had DEC come0> > out with an EDT -> TPU translator for your EDTINI.EDT files.  K Why don't you post some of your main keys and see if any of us have already-E created the TPU code to do what you want? (Note: I'm not promising torH convert your keys, but I'll take a look at what I have already.) I stillH have 105 DEFINE KEY statements in my own .EDT file, and regularly switchC from my own EDT, line mode EDT (never know when I'll have to edit a H SYSTARTUP_VMS on a DECWriter console again), my own TPU and default TPU.  F > Then again, scripting TPU/EVE in batch (like you can with EDT) would  > remain rather a challenge, no? >...  8 No problem, just make sure you use /NODISPLAY like this;@    $ EDIT/TPU/NODISPLAY/SECTION=PRW$UTL:TRIM_LINES/NOCOMMAND 'P1   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.p   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 10:56:00 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Gold keyr= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0204300955.63f809cd@posting.google.com>   s hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<6Niz8.51$r11.854111@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>...-i > In article <ucraltqve6to7b@corp.supernews.com>, "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> writes:  > ; > :I am a novice to VMs system and learning the EDT editor.  > C >   Please use TPU or other editor, EDT was retired some years ago.  [snip] pC >   With TPU and newer editors, you can get help from the keyboard.rB >   (Again, EDT really isn't the best editor for a new user -- andD >   this is not intended to start an editor war, as I do prefer and C >   do use the EDT-style keyboard layout daily.  EDT is simply not tC >   as advanced as other more recent editors -- TPU and EVE and LSEF( >   all have keypad help, for instance.)    C In EDT you can press PF2 and get help on all the keypad keys. Isn't C that "keypad help"? EDT also provides online help by typing HELP atd2 the * prompt. Is that not "help from the keyoard"?     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmann" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:20:31 +0530 5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> 1 Subject: GUI VMS application on Linux workstationa/ Message-ID: <ucstao932v6df3@corp.supernews.com>e   Hi,iK     I run applications from VMS server on NT workstation (helped by EXCEED,e Xsession or else...),n9 but I don't know how to do this on a Linux workstation :(I Please help me !!!   Sandeepb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:52:43 -0400 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>o( Subject: Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.2( Message-ID: <3CCEAFB6.72AD81EA@ohio.edu>  F Just in case no one else has already responded (my newsfeed has highly variable delays):i   an example of   
 	dd-mmm-yyyy ,   is 30-APR-2002   				RDPo       Joe Schmoe wrote:  > E > Total OpenVMS newbie here.... installing it for the first time on ae? > VAXstation 4000 VLC.  Upon booting from the cdrom i get this:i > 1 > PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)u > & > I enter the date and time like this: >  > 28-004-2002 14:36. > 9 > When i hit return after that, I get this error message:d >  > invalid date/timet > M > I've spent the last two hours trying just about every way to enter the date ( > to no avail.  Can someone please help? >  > Thank you, >  > Bradley D. Waltero   --  B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Apr 2002 08:42:10 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troublesa0 Message-ID: <aalld2$db9$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  ' In article <3CCDEFD7.9BE3DDD8@fsi.net>, 0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >Peter da Silva wrote:	 >> [snip]eM >> I'm sorry, but I must be missing something. Would you mind explaining your H >> reasoning a little more explicitly... reading that post a second time- >> doesn't do anything to clarify your point.0 >2' >O.k. Let's look at that one more time:w >. >Sander Vesik wrote: >> jD >> In comp.arch Tarjei T. Jensen <tarjei.jensen@kvaerner.com> wrote: >> > >> > [snip]gL >> > Reading books on usability should be a requirement for all programmers. >> tH >> Having a clue about how FreeBSD and similar projects happen should beD >> compulsory, so nobody would ever say something as stupid as that. >xI >Now, I may be wrong, but I took that to mean that Sander apparently sees D >neither the necessity nor importance of usability as having as muchF >weight as the other issues involved in the development of open-source
 >software. >r >Does this help you out?  F Not quite.  It has NOTHING to do with open source as such, but a greatF deal to do with the community that developed BSD, and I am pretty sure than Sander knows that.   E Usability used to be a major objective, but lost out in academia whenaB the massive retargeting of funds from computer support to computerE science occurred in the 1970s.  In the 1980s, the trendiness of 'PCs'EB and similar meant that (a) vendors discovered that they could sellC their junk without addressing usability and (b) the people with thebB attitude that using a computer is the user's problem started to be: the people running the show.  And this has never reversed.  C Berkeley computer science, as seen in BSD etc., has NEVER taken any C interest in usability by anyone except hackers.  Witness the almost7B total lack of specifications - EVEN more than for A,T&T code - theB users is expected to read the source to use the utility.  And theyC are not exceptional.  The modern BSDs are better than the old ones,- but are still pretty bad.i     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679l   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 17:40:58 +01002 From: peter@premise.demon.co.uk (Peter G. Hancock) Subject: Re: Itanium troublesA0 Message-ID: <oqk7qpcf6t.fsf@premise.demon.co.uk>  9 >>>>> Nick Maclaren wrote (on Tue, 30 Apr 2002 at 09:42):o  I     > Berkeley computer science, as seen in BSD etc., has NEVER taken anysI     > interest in usability by anyone except hackers.  Witness the almostLH     > total lack of specifications - EVEN more than for A,T&T code - the@     > users is expected to read the source to use the utility.    E A very good point.  "Use the source, Luke.", ie. get out your crystalPC ball, voodoo dolls etc. and mind-read what is intentional here, and= what is contingent._  
 Peter HancockN   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:35:12 -0700-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: Link dirs to Anonymous ftpd9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOHENAA.tom@kednos.com>R  < How does one link some other directory and make it avaialble- to anonymous ftp without compromising access?0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:23:13 GMTt From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGd' Subject: Re: Link dirs to Anonymous ftpm0 Message-ID: <00A0D3CA.3B5012E0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOHENAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:P= >How does one link some other directory and make it avaialbles. >to anonymous ftp without compromising access?    What TCP/IP stack and version???  K If, however, the directories in question reside on the same device with the K present anonymous directory, you might try $ SET FILE/ENTER.  Consider whatEJ you have in the directory paths above as a CDUP might walk the remove user! back up the wrong directory path.R  L The best bet would be to copy files to directories you create off of the ex- isting anonymous default.e     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             n5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:41:28 -0700m# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l' Subject: RE: Link dirs to Anonymous ftpe9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEONENAA.tom@kednos.com>@  8 Sorry, I should know better,  tcpip5.1 under 7.3 running; hgftp, and the directory is on a different physical device.n  / This is where a unix style link would be handy.i   >-----Original Message-----m? >From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG] & >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:23 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: Link dirs to Anonymous ftp >C >s? >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOHENAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tomd! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:>> >>How does one link some other directory and make it avaialble/ >>to anonymous ftp without compromising access?l >w! >What TCP/IP stack and version???r >tL >If, however, the directories in question reside on the same device with theL >present anonymous directory, you might try $ SET FILE/ENTER.  Consider whatK >you have in the directory paths above as a CDUP might walk the remove user " >back up the wrong directory path. >aB >The best bet would be to copy files to directories you create off >of the ex-d >isting anonymous default. >. >e >--i3 >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001n >VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMv >.5 >  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  >U >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)..A >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002  >b ---n& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:44:30 GMTt4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Network Delay? ? Message-ID: <2bqz8.66386$o66.203826@news-server.bigpond.net.au>e  K When the socket send buffer is full, a nonblocking write() (or send()) willoF return EWOULDBLOCK.  FWIW, this is the same as an SS$_SUSPENDED status! return from a $QIO IO$_WRITEVBLK.o  J A well behaved application will backoff, not sending more data until spaceK in the socket send buffer is available again.  If this were UNIX, you mightAI use signals to indicate when buffer space is available again.  E.g. SIGIO J may indicate that the remote side has ACKed the data and the data has beenK removed from the send queue.  On OpenVMS you need to use the AST mechanism.   J E.g. you could use the WRTATTN AST to be notified when the socket is readyI for writing again.  You need to be careful that you don't have a select()oJ active on a socket at the same time as an oustanding AST.  Something like:  ?     status = sys$qio(EFN$C_ENF, chan, IO$_SETMODE|IO$M_WRTATTN,mC                              &iosb, flowon_ast, param,0,0,0,0,0,0);r  9 When your "flowon_ast" fires, you can transmit more data.-  F > Where could i get this example code, my main reference is the Compaq( > Socket API and System Services Manual.  I Take a look in TCPIP$EXAMPLES on a system running TCP/IP V5.1.  Though it.' doesn't use nonblocking IO from memory.i   Matt.e   --= -------------------------------------------------------------b OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporationw Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAr= -------------------------------------------------------------i    , "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message7 news:873e96d6.0204291931.3d0597ea@posting.google.com...uB > > Is this intentional?  Since you don't know what to do with the EWOULDBLOCKyF > > error, it sounds as though you want blocking IO, in which case the% > > EWOULDBLOCK error will not occur.t > >xE > My intention is to use non-blocking socket.  Thus, the sender couldeG > returns instantly from the ::write call.  If there is error, I expect F > that the message written will be lost, instead of sender delay (thisF > is the requirement) if there is error writting socket.  However, now  > the sender process gets delay. >r> > Is nonblocking socket will behave as blocking socket in some? > circumstances, for example too many connection? socket buffer  > overflow?o >r" > What is the cause of this error? >, > > 8 > > Did you take a look at the ECHO server example code? > >sF > Where could i get this example code, my main reference is the Compaq( > Socket API and System Services Manual. >sA > The following is the code, I use to create non blocking socket.o > // Creating a socket2 > if ((fd_=::socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0))<0) { >     return false;, > }p >0# > // Set the socket to non-blockinge > int arg=1;. > if (::ioctl(fd_, FIONBIO, (char *)&arg)<0) { >     close(); >     return false;o > }i >.# > // Set the socket to SO_REUSEADDR. > int optval=1;t9 > if ( setsockopt(fd_, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &optval,0 > sizeof(optval)) < 0 ) {a >     close(); >     return false;o > }o >i	 > Thanks,  >w > Wing   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:47:05 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e Subject: OSU vs. CSWSg; Message-ID: <01KH6B18OA108Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o   Hi all,     ? I didn't receive any responses of the sort I needed to my querynH regarding web-server comparisons.  Note that I am concerned on comparingJ FEATURES, EASE OF CONFIGURATION and COMPATIBILITY WITH OSU.  Also, does=20A the fact that CSWS is a unix port rear its ugly head in practice?i  K We have been using an older version of OSU with no problems.  I also run=20hI the OSU server on my hobbyist system so have some experience with it. =20 G Now that Compaq officially supports a web server, we are considering=20 C moving to it, since we need to upgrade to be able to support new=20a features in any case.u  J Is there any documentation of the FEATURES of OSU on the web?  There is=20K some useful stuff out there, how to configure it etc, but not much about=20 G its FEATURES.  (One can get some idea from the release notes, but of=20a9 course that is chronological, not organised by category.)   = Even if I have the OSU features documented, a side-by-side=20dE comparison---or simply a list of things to keep in mind---would be=20  useful for comparison purposes.p  G I realise that the OSU mailing list MIGHT be a better place for such=20iI queries.  I am subscribed to it at home but not at work.  I just tried=20z) subscribing as per the instructions at=20l  <    http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/www/doc/mailing_list.html  
 but get=20   ----; From: MX mailing list and file server <Postmaster@KJSL.COM>i* Subject: Mailing list or file server error& To: HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com  / Note: this message was generated automatically.a  F The following error(s) occurred during local delivery of your message.   Error in MXserver request:;     unknown list: subscribe VMS-WEB-daemon "Phillip Helbig"o ----   What am I doing wrong?     --=20aH Phillip Helbig              Email ... helbphi@sysdev.Deutsche-Boerse.comJ Deutsche B=F6rse Systems AG   Email ... Phillip.Helbig@Deutsche-Boerse.co= mgH Xetra/Eurex Operations      Tel. ...................... +49 69 2101 4921H 60485 Frankfurt am Main     Fax ....................... +49 69 2101 3411  H My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer and, no, I don't=20 have any stock tips for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:10:51 -0400l1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>a Subject: Re: OSU vs. CSWSe2 Message-ID: <3CCE89CB.D2E38ADA@firstdbasource.com>   Phillip Helbig wrote:0 >    > Error in MXserver request:= >     unknown list: subscribe VMS-WEB-daemon "Phillip Helbig"i   try 0  subscribe VMS-WEB-daemon your.email@address.com     > ---- >  > What am I doing wrong? >  > --J > Phillip Helbig              Email ... helbphi@sysdev.Deutsche-Boerse.comJ > Deutsche Brse Systems AG   Email ... Phillip.Helbig@Deutsche-Boerse.comJ > Xetra/Eurex Operations      Tel. ...................... +49 69 2101 4921J > 60485 Frankfurt am Main     Fax ....................... +49 69 2101 3411 > G > My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer and, no, I don'to > have any stock tips for you.     -- t Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163I7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.come Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office), 704-236-4377 (Mobile)n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:10:30 GMT,L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: OSU vs. CSWS 8 Message-ID: <00A0D38D.D007CF38@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  J In article <01KH6B18OA108Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig, <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:   >Hi all, >m >w@ >I didn't receive any responses of the sort I needed to my queryI >regarding web-server comparisons.  Note that I am concerned on comparing-K >FEATURES, EASE OF CONFIGURATION and COMPATIBILITY WITH OSU.  Also, does=20IB >the fact that CSWS is a unix port rear its ugly head in practice?  , (Okay, I'm not talking about Purveyor here.)  J CSWS and WASD are roughly tied for number of features; OSU is well behind.0 (That doesn't mean OSU is worse or less useful.)  O There is currently no VMS-based GUI configurator for CSWS; there's one for WASDaL and one for OSU.  The OSU GUI configurator doesn't let you do various thingsM you might want to do in a complicated configuration, but is a very good quicka' start to getting up and running at all.i  K If you're not afraid of using an editor on a text file, none of the serverss& are impossibly difficult to configure.  M CSWS can run OSU scripts in a module produced by the author of the OSU serversM distributed as part of the CSWS package.  WASD can run OSU scripts in a very  L good imitation of the OSU server environment.  If you want to run OSU SSIs -E .HTMLX files - you can run the script-based OSU preprocessor in WASD.s  L >We have been using an older version of OSU with no problems.  I also run=20J >the OSU server on my hobbyist system so have some experience with it. =20H >Now that Compaq officially supports a web server, we are considering=20D >moving to it, since we need to upgrade to be able to support new=20 >features in any case. >cK >Is there any documentation of the FEATURES of OSU on the web?  There is=20aL >some useful stuff out there, how to configure it etc, but not much about=20H >its FEATURES.  (One can get some idea from the release notes, but of=20: >course that is chronological, not organised by category.)  H If I'd been able to find a complete organized and up-to-date list of OSUH features on the web, it would have made my job as an OSU webmaster a lotL easier, and it would have made getting the webserver book done a lot easier.   >u> >Even if I have the OSU features documented, a side-by-side=20F >comparison---or simply a list of things to keep in mind---would be=20  >useful for comparison purposes.  N I really think it would be better to figure out what you need - now and in theM near future - and then look to see whether OSU, which you're already familiarLO with, will do it.  If not, then start looking at the other products.  If you'rei> doing a head-to-head comparison, include WASD as well as CSWS.    N Are you running on a multiprocessor system?  Are you running on multiple nodesN in a cluster?  Are you running on a Galaxy system?  Each server exploits thoseO environments in different ways.  (CSWS derives the most advantage from Galactic= shared memory, for example.) = >=H >I realise that the OSU mailing list MIGHT be a better place for such=20J >queries.  I am subscribed to it at home but not at work.  I just tried=20* >subscribing as per the instructions at=20 > = >   http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/www/doc/mailing_list.html- >  >but get=202 >  >----0< >From: MX mailing list and file server <Postmaster@KJSL.COM>+ >Subject: Mailing list or file server errore' >To: HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.comF >90 >Note: this message was generated automatically. >fG >The following error(s) occurred during local delivery of your message.u >b >Error in MXserver request:u< >    unknown list: subscribe VMS-WEB-daemon "Phillip Helbig" >----i >t >What am I doing wrong?>    1 The list no longer runs on MX; it uses MAILMAN.      Some relevant headers:  6 Listmgmt: Send HELP to vms-web-daemon-request@kjsl.com+ List-Post: <mailto:vms-web-daemon@KJSL.COM> H List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.kjsl.com/mailman/listinfo/vms-web-daemon>,=  <mailto:vms-web-daemon-request@KJSL.COM?subject=unsubscribe>w  > (I reckon you can subscribe at the same URL you subscribe to.)   -- Aland  O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:02:22 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: OSU vs. CSWSe= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0204300802.5da89730@posting.google.com>n  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KH6B18OA108Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...	 > Hi all,n > A > I didn't receive any responses of the sort I needed to my querybJ > regarding web-server comparisons.  Note that I am concerned on comparingJ > FEATURES, EASE OF CONFIGURATION and COMPATIBILITY WITH OSU.  Also, does C > the fact that CSWS is a unix port rear its ugly head in practice?E >   F I posted this on your other topic ... you want an easy to use gui thatG all can use, take a test drive of rsm ... another strength of purveyor. F it allows someone w/limited knowledge (i.e. operators) to make changesF easily to a web site w/o getting lost in .conf jungle ... anything youB need to do (except creating error pages) can be done from here ...E error pages can be referenced by a simple edit of the config file ...e click here for a test spin ...  % http://vms.process.com/~rsm/main.html:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:31:21 +02007. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si>& Subject: Ranking violaton in MDMS V4.0/ Message-ID: <mluz8.775$WO2.28780@news.siol.net>o   Hi,>  E I`m getting lots of this messages in MDMS log file. It`s very annoingeL because all MDMS VOLUME operations are held until I restart the MDMS server.  L Usualy I get this type of message when I try to initialize a new volume (andI volume already has diferrent  label and ownership on it. Reusing DLTs fore different purpuses).   Environment:   OpenVMS 7.2-1 and 7.3 6 TLZ885 and TL892 tape libraries (on different systems)	 MRU 1.5-1o
 MDMS 4.0(446)  ABS 4.0r      E 26-Apr-2002 09:06:24 %MDMS-I-SVRSTARTSTRING, Server V4.0(446) started       D 19-Apr-2002 16:49:01 ranking violation for new ET_LIST_HEADER rank 5)                      ET_MAGAZINE rank: 22:  ? 19-Apr-2002 16:49:01 ranking violation for new ET_VOLUME rank 6E)                      ET_MAGAZINE rank: 22o  A 19-Apr-2002 16:49:01 %MDMS-E-SVRUNEXP, unexpected error in SERVERm/ WRK$ROOT:[SRC]MDMS_SVR_REQUEST.CXX;1 line 14943-  D 19-Apr-2002 16:49:15 ranking violation for new ET_LIST_HEADER rank 5)                      ET_MAGAZINE rank: 22m   best, Gorazd   --4 ----------------------------------------------------
 Gorazd KikeljN OpenVMS system support Aster d.o.o. e-mail: gorazd.kikelj@aster.si www:  www.aster.si   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:16:21 -0400c> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>* Subject: RE: Ranking violaton in MDMS V4.0M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3871@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>s  G I believe 4.0A is available, and it fixes quite a few things.  I would rG test version 4.0A out if you can.  I believe you can get it from Compaqo" by logging a service support call.  G I have only been using 4.0A for a night now, but it is working well so e far.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadways Albany, NY  12204  USA- 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com   ) I post personal opinion only, and all the<* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).I+ One should also take note of the Electronici) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whiche+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anys( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   -----Original Message-----3 From: Gorazd Kikelj [mailto:gorazd.kikelj@aster.si]T% Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:31 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: Ranking violaton in MDMS V4.0     Hi,.  E I`m getting lots of this messages in MDMS log file. It`s very annoingeL because all MDMS VOLUME operations are held until I restart the MDMS server.  L Usualy I get this type of message when I try to initialize a new volume (andI volume already has diferrent  label and ownership on it. Reusing DLTs foro different purpuses).   Environment:   OpenVMS 7.2-1 and 7.3t6 TLZ885 and TL892 tape libraries (on different systems)	 MRU 1.5-1e
 MDMS 4.0(446)c ABS 4.0w      E 26-Apr-2002 09:06:24 %MDMS-I-SVRSTARTSTRING, Server V4.0(446) started       D 19-Apr-2002 16:49:01 ranking violation for new ET_LIST_HEADER rank 5)                      ET_MAGAZINE rank: 220  ? 19-Apr-2002 16:49:01 ranking violation for new ET_VOLUME rank 6 )                      ET_MAGAZINE rank: 22n  A 19-Apr-2002 16:49:01 %MDMS-E-SVRUNEXP, unexpected error in SERVERh/ WRK$ROOT:[SRC]MDMS_SVR_REQUEST.CXX;1 line 14943u  D 19-Apr-2002 16:49:15 ranking violation for new ET_LIST_HEADER rank 5)                      ET_MAGAZINE rank: 22i   best, Gorazd   --4 ----------------------------------------------------
 Gorazd Kikelj: OpenVMS system support Aster d.o.o. e-mail: gorazd.kikelj@aster.si www:  www.aster.si   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 00:32:49 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)@) Subject: Re: Reduce interupt time on CPU0c3 Message-ID: <29WbKfpQvQVV@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  i In article <977914c8.0204291841.64bd9144@posting.google.com>, anickerj@comcast.net (Jeff Anicker) writes:I   > F > Thanks much for all your suggestions.  We do currently use fast pathG > but with the memory channel turned on I don't think that helps us tooXE > much.  We may go to vms 7.3 to allow for scsi fastpath as the nodesa@ > are all directly connected to a scsi hub connected to hsz70's. >   = 	I'm not sure what you would be fast pathing.  The CI storagey' 	hopefully isn't your big performer(s)..   > E > I am also spending my weekends for the forseeable future convertingrD > databases, many of which have not been converted since 1997!  I amA > reading the guides to file applications for tuning suggestions.g >    Jeff,   > 	If you rummage around, you should find PERFECTFILE and a niceB 	DCL script called OPTIMIZE_INDEX.COM to go with it.  1997?  MaybeE 	August 1998?  And because it has been so long, your DBs are severelyo= 	fragmented.  That is the crux of your performance problems.  E 	Interestingly enough, I just came off a Sunday downtime (first in 6  G 	months) and defragged a database.  It went from peak IO of 400 IO/sec f@ 	to 1800 IO/sec (sequential pre-fetching off 6 platters, but theF 	point there is the db was so internally fragmented we weren't gettingG 	what it was capable of).  Fair warning, you defragment things and you -H 	just improved your IO subsystem.  Guess what?  Yep... that primary CPU C 	really starts wailing and moaning.  In other words, do this beforet; 	you go to 7.3 and you are going to grind that CPU to bits.     B 	Also, two ES45's with 4 CPUs each probably would be better.  That; 	memory channel hub would exchange the lock traffic and you E 	would have two powerful primary CPUs to saturate.  10 Gigs of memoryTD 	most likely doesn't gain you much as the working sets are "largish"< 	but not outlandish and VIOC can only go to 1 Gig... but nowD 	I am being picky.   Where I wouldn't be picky is if that 8400 takesB 	a big time hit.  You could be down for a day or two.   Having oneB 	big box to run a company on is a >> very << bad thing.  (And yes,? 	the CPU processing that is left would essentially put everyonef- 	in downtime mode, been there ... done that).t    B 	Also, since 80-90% of your processing is taking place on that oneA 	box - with a large cache , I wonder how much global buffers are nB 	helping (getting sideways here... but the point is a hot block isE 	in memory).  But I would agree getting to 7.3 would be best as fast eE 	path is supported for SCSI at 7.3 and that alone would help offload   	your primary CPU.  E 	Tell Ted I said hi and if you want, I'll drop by for a "one off" (1)(   				RobO    H (1)  Look-see and recommendation.  That ESA10000 + SW800 would be prime N      candidates for replacement and I bet I could make a strong case.  Shoot, <      that and a couple of loaded ES45s to replace that 8400.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:58:04 -0700# From: tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) > Subject: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?= Message-ID: <793af3df.0204300858.7baf1b61@posting.google.com>s  C I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entire 3 contents from being backuped.  Something like this:   & !Backup to force record of backup date+ $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP  $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.*F% !Proceed with real incremental backupA8 $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAH  B This directory will never be renamed.  It is a large direcory withI some file creates and deletes happening in it every day, but only a smalla8 portion of the files in it are changed on a daily basis.  F Is there any problem with this?  I am not sure of all the reasons thatC VMS was revised in the first place to backup all the contents of a  3 directory when the directory's modify date changed.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:10:16 -0400c> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>B Subject: RE: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3877@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>e  J Perhaps $ SET FILE /NOBACKUP on the files you do not want the contents of, to be backed up.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadwayr Albany, NY  12204e USAi 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.comz  ) I post personal opinion only, and all the * disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).m+ One should also take note of the Electronicl) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, which-+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anyd( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   -----Original Message-----2 From: tadamsmar@aol.com [mailto:tadamsmar@aol.com]& Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:58 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi> Subject: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?    C I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entiree3 contents from being backuped.  Something like this:.  & !Backup to force record of backup date+ $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP4 $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.*o% !Proceed with real incremental backup 8 $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAH  B This directory will never be renamed.  It is a large direcory withI some file creates and deletes happening in it every day, but only a smallU8 portion of the files in it are changed on a daily basis.  F Is there any problem with this?  I am not sure of all the reasons thatC VMS was revised in the first place to backup all the contents of a b3 directory when the directory's modify date changed.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:23:09 +0200m) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?/ Message-ID: <3CCED2FD.4040503@xs4all.nospam.nl>.   Tom Adams wrote:E > I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entire 5 > contents from being backuped.  Something like this:  > ( > !Backup to force record of backup date- > $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP  > $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.* ' > !Proceed with real incremental backupB: > $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAH > D > This directory will never be renamed.  It is a large direcory withK > some file creates and deletes happening in it every day, but only a small.: > portion of the files in it are changed on a daily basis. > H > Is there any problem with this?  I am not sure of all the reasons thatE > VMS was revised in the first place to backup all the contents of a  5 > directory when the directory's modify date changed.   G There are several possibilities to have BACKUP ignore certain files or y directories. You could:r   - Use SET FILE/NOBACKUP  - Use DFU SET FILE/BACKUP_DATE - Use BACKUP/EXCLUDE  9 The third one seems the one to use in your case, I think.c  G The reason that BACKUP includes directories without an apparant reason t$ has to do with Incremental Restores.   HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 02:14:18 -0700, From: hughest@esm-semi.co.uk (Tracey Hughes)5 Subject: Re: removing extra carriage return/line feede= Message-ID: <d0058b0e.0204300114.347b82a0@posting.google.com>l  8 Thanks for the replies so far. To answer your questions:  E The files are created on the Alpha and ftp'd to the PC. It is there InD use Wordpad to read the file and CTRL-END puts the cursor at the end of the file.   DIR/FULL on the file:d  > GLAPR02.CSV;1                 File ID:  (8591,205,0)          : Size:           44/45         Owner:    [ITS,TECH_SUPPORT]" Created:   26-APR-2002 14:32:41.00& Revised:   26-APR-2002 14:33:40.00 (4)" Expires:   30-APR-2002 09:53:23.55" Backup:    26-APR-2002 22:25:01.98 Effective: <None specified>a Recording: <None specified>s File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online eE File attributes:    Allocation: 45, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0e$                     Version limit: 3C Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32767 byteso4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: NoneA File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:REs Access Cntrl List:  None  ? I have tried the convert/fdl procedure as suggested by Mark andn> although a DIR/FULL shows it has changed it still has the same problem.  > NEWGL.CSV;1                   File ID:  (19549,1351,0)        : Size:           44/45         Owner:    [ITS,TECH_SUPPORT]" Created:   30-APR-2002 09:53:13.39& Revised:   30-APR-2002 09:53:13.60 (1)" Expires:   30-APR-2002 09:53:23.60 Backup:    <No backup recorded>E Effective: <None specified>s Recording: <None specified>0 File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online wE File attributes:    Allocation: 45, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 $                     Version limit: 3= Record format:      Stream, maximum 0 bytes, longest 80 bytesU4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None7 File protection:    System:, Owner:, Group:, World:RWEDs Access Cntrl List:  None    F I have to send this file via email to uploaded into another system andF currently use Wordpad to remove this line. Once I have deleted back toC the end of the last line and resaved the file it uploads fine but Ig? would obviously like to automate this procedure from the Alpha.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:07:51 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>j5 Subject: Re: removing extra carriage return/line feed0, Message-ID: <3CCE6CF4.96600FD6@videotron.ca>   Tracey Hughes wrote:: > The files are created on the Alpha and ftp'd to the PC.   H > I have to send this file via email to uploaded into another system andH > currently use Wordpad to remove this line. Once I have deleted back toE > the end of the last line and resaved the file it uploads fine but IaA > would obviously like to automate this procedure from the Alpha.   J do you use FTP or email to send the file ?  If you use FTP, have you tried; binary and text transfers to see if it makes a difference ?M  N And can you describe how the file is sent via email from VMS ? Perhaps this is$ where the file gets its extra line ?  M Do you have a rough idea of how many records there are in the file ? Lets say- it has 100. ? For the file produced by the VMS application, do the following:  DUMP/RECORD=(start:90)  L And then check to see if DUMP thinks that there is a blank record at the endK of whether the last record contains data. If DUMP thinks that the file doesSK contain a blank line at the end, then you would know the problem isn't with P the file transfers but with the application that creates the file to begin with.  K Also, in the DUMP, try to see what the last characters of the file are. Are=' they just a LF or a CR/LF combination ?-  N The DIR/FULL you provided indicates the file as STREAMLF, so it doesn't reallyK have much in terms of VMS attributes. You might be able to do a binary file2 transfer on it..   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:17:20 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>m5 Subject: Re: removing extra carriage return/line feedo' Message-ID: <3CCE6120.67AAAD69@aaa.com>d  1 Probably easier to change the source of the file. 7 Or, if that's not possible, write some code (DCL if theT3 file is short, some 3GL if it's large) to strip outi any "empty" line from the file.i   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 11:53:48 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)* Subject: Running CSWS 1.2 on Alpha VMS 7.23 Message-ID: <9lFRb$IHKYcg@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  F The installation guide for the latest version of Apache (IE: CSWS 1.2)E states that at least VMS 7.2-1 is required. Can it be made to work one* VMS 7.2 (the version on the hobbyist CD) ?   Thanks for any information,    Simon.  G PS: In order to head off what is currently a standard response to theseuK types of postings, I would like to declare in advance that I have precisely>K _zero_ interest in running Purveyor, nor do I have any interest in debatingwG the merits of that webserver versus the rest of the VMS webservers. :-)e   -- vB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.y   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 02:52:46 -0700( From: insoo.kim@compaq.com (Kim, In Soo) Subject: Test for DRMi= Message-ID: <2435e043.0204300152.519748aa@posting.google.com>L  
 Hi. everyone.p  - Have you ever any experience for openvms DRM.D   Today I'd tested for DRM. ' But i am not satisfied with the result.N6 At first I tried for only local(source) site I/O test.) The average I/O complete time was 6m 30s.aN The second I also tried for DRM(source & target) I/O test in synchronous mode. The result was average 10m.r) Therefore delayed time rate is about 50%.n= In case of tru64 unix,I heard the performance is down 20-25%.o Now i'd like to know...R5 1. Generally the delayed time rate is correct or not.4" 2. If not,let me know check point.   ......TEST Environment ...... ) H/W : AlphaServer ES40(1EA) & MA8000(2EA) % O/S : OpenVMS V7.2-1h1 & Latest patch- D/B : Oracle RDB V7.0.3d ACS : V8.5Pn Connection for DRM : FC to FC.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:52:30 -0400-+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Test for DRMCT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D8F29@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  	 Mr. Kim -    Re: DRM testing ..  E As a suggestion, there is a whitepaper on multi-site clusters that isl
 available at: > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/fc_hbvs_dtc_wp.pdfF http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/index.html OpenVMS SAN web site  C Also, VMS V7.3 has some additional performance enhancements (V7.3-1o; currently in beta has more) that are related to clustering.    Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660. Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message----- From: Kim, In Soo=20 Sent: April 30, 2002 5:53 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Test for DRMh    
 Hi. everyone.   - Have you ever any experience for openvms DRM.    Today I'd tested for DRM.n' But i am not satisfied with the result.i6 At first I tried for only local(source) site I/O test.) The average I/O complete time was 6m 30s.-H The second I also tried for DRM(source & target) I/O test in synchronousF mode. The result was average 10m. Therefore delayed time rate is aboutF 50%. In case of tru64 unix,I heard the performance is down 20-25%. NowD i'd like to know... 1. Generally the delayed time rate is correct or' not. 2. If not,let me know check point.s   .....TEST Environment ......) H/W : AlphaServer ES40(1EA) & MA8000(2EA) % O/S : OpenVMS V7.2-1h1 & Latest patch  D/B : Oracle RDB V7.0.3D ACS : V8.5Pf Connection for DRM : FC to FC:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:55:10 +0200y9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>2 Subject: Re: Test for DRMR' Message-ID: <3CCE69FE.569285EE@aaa.com>    What is DRM ?? Jan-Erik Sderholm.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:06:02 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>w Subject: RE: Test for DRM T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EC7@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   >> What is DRM ??<<$  F Data Replication Manager - a HW data replication feature in Compaq's =G StorageWorks products. It is designed for active-passive clusters ie. =IE fail-over clusters. The drives participating in a DRM config at the =-@ remote site are not available to the servers at the remote site.  E Most VMS multi-site clusters that I am aware of do not use DRM, but =-J rather HBVS (host based volume shadowing). One strong reason to use HBVS =J is that it provides the capability to use active-active clusters to load =E balance incoming read-write connections to the same data across all =0 servers at all sites.g   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantk Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660c Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Jan-Erik S=F6derholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]=20 Sent: April 30, 2002 5:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come Subject: Re: Test for DRMd     What is DRM ?? Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.w   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 06:28:36 -0700$ From: bfarmer@wcfa.com (Bill Farmer) Subject: Re: Test for DRMa= Message-ID: <43840735.0204300528.322e5cce@posting.google.com>n  m insoo.kim@compaq.com (Kim, In Soo) wrote in message news:<2435e043.0204300152.519748aa@posting.google.com>...  > Hi. everyone.r > / > Have you ever any experience for openvms DRM.r >  > Today I'd tested for DRM.g) > But i am not satisfied with the result.d8 > At first I tried for only local(source) site I/O test.+ > The average I/O complete time was 6m 30s.eP > The second I also tried for DRM(source & target) I/O test in synchronous mode. > The result was average 10m.t+ > Therefore delayed time rate is about 50%. ? > In case of tru64 unix,I heard the performance is down 20-25%.  > Now i'd like to know...s7 > 1. Generally the delayed time rate is correct or not.c$ > 2. If not,let me know check point. >  > ......TEST Environment ......y+ > H/W : AlphaServer ES40(1EA) & MA8000(2EA)r' > O/S : OpenVMS V7.2-1h1 & Latest patcha > D/B : Oracle RDB V7.0.3h
 > ACS : V8.5Pu > Connection for DRM : FC to FCr  C At a high level, these numbers do not seem out of line, assuming of D course that they were mostly writes.  Twice as many writes, Twice as long.n   Regards,   Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 09:05:26 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a Subject: Re: Test for DRMa3 Message-ID: <Y6Gqo3+obosr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <43840735.0204300528.322e5cce@posting.google.com>, bfarmer@wcfa.com (Bill Farmer) writes:o > insoo.kim@compaq.com (Kim, In Soo) wrote in message news:<2435e043.0204300152.519748aa@posting.google.com>...n >> Hi. everyone. >> s0 >> Have you ever any experience for openvms DRM. >> . >> Today I'd tested for DRM.* >> But i am not satisfied with the result.9 >> At first I tried for only local(source) site I/O test. , >> The average I/O complete time was 6m 30s.Q >> The second I also tried for DRM(source & target) I/O test in synchronous mode.  >> The result was average 10m., >> Therefore delayed time rate is about 50%.@ >> In case of tru64 unix,I heard the performance is down 20-25%. >> Now i'd like to know...8 >> 1. Generally the delayed time rate is correct or not.% >> 2. If not,let me know check point.0 >> d  >> ......TEST Environment ......, >> H/W : AlphaServer ES40(1EA) & MA8000(2EA)( >> O/S : OpenVMS V7.2-1h1 & Latest patch >> D/B : Oracle RDB V7.0.3 >> ACS : V8.5P  >> Connection for DRM : FC to FC > E > At a high level, these numbers do not seem out of line, assuming ofcF > course that they were mostly writes.  Twice as many writes, Twice as > long.8 >   4 	What is he talking about?  I am confused.  Is this:  ) The average I/O complete time was 6m 30s.o   	6 minutes, 30 seconds?   N The second I also tried for DRM(source & target) I/O test in synchronous mode. The result was average 10m.    	10 minutes?   				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:41:56 GMTA1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)n3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant : Message-ID: <U0rz8.11117$My4.600726@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  . Chris Bardell (tessier-ashpool@usa.net) wrote:; : Cheers for the responses guys, interesting points raised.  :  Just found this tidbit for you:t  : The 9.1% of U.S. IT industry has vanished in the last year  C    InformationWeek > IT Careers > Vanishing Act > February 15, 2002-8    http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020215S0049  F    New statistics suggest the overall IT workforce has shrunk. So just.    where have the former workers gone-and why?  /    By Eric Chabrow and Diane Rezendes Khirallah@  H   "Now you see 'em, now you don't. About 270,000 workers--9.1% of the ITI    workforce--vanished in the past year, and no one's sure where they all F    went, or why. The chief suspects appear to be layoff-spurred careerF    changes, post-Sept. 11 angst, and disillusionment following the dot    bomb.  	    [snip]o  G    Former IT people are turning up everywhere: Ex-network designer John D    O'Brien, 28, remodels homes around St. Louis with his dad. AndrewF    Stephens, 32, was an IT consultant and now teaches math at a middleI    school in Alexandria, Va. One-time IT project leader Julie Malina, 32,nF    does administrative work for a San Francisco insurer. Ex-programmer2    Krishna Sadasivam, 29, has become a cartoonist.  F    There's a potentially troubling pattern in those examples, and it'sD    supported by the bureau's data--the majority of ex-IT workers are    under 40 years old..."      Good luck, Chris.k  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:06:40 +0010P% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auB3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existantH5 Message-ID: <01KH6ONAOLUA000703@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>e  ; >The 9.1% of U.S. IT industry has vanished in the last yearv > D >   InformationWeek > IT Careers > Vanishing Act > February 15, 20029 >   http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020215S0049e > G >   New statistics suggest the overall IT workforce has shrunk. So juste/ >   where have the former workers gone-and why?m >f0 >   By Eric Chabrow and Diane Rezendes Khirallah  M Perhaps they're employed writing articles like this -- it takes two of them??.  L Aren't all of our jobs shrinking?  Aren't most of us employed in situations L where two of us are expected to do the work of eight from a few years ago?  K And that's when as several people have bemoaned (not derogatory) here that n' they are stretched to pay the mortgage.   K Don't PhD's come these days for stating the obvious, or what is obvious to MJ people trying to stay in the workforce?  These "guys" must be in line for  Harvard scholarships.A   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:31:07 GMTe1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)p3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existantf: Message-ID: <vvtz8.17309$9F5.652210@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:= : >The 9.1% of U.S. IT industry has vanished in the last year  : >pF : >   InformationWeek > IT Careers > Vanishing Act > February 15, 2002; : >   http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020215S0049n : >eI : >   New statistics suggest the overall IT workforce has shrunk. So justs1 : >   where have the former workers gone-and why?  : >h2 : >   By Eric Chabrow and Diane Rezendes Khirallah : I : Perhaps they're employed writing articles like this -- it takes two of a : them?? : N : Aren't all of our jobs shrinking?  Aren't most of us employed in situations N : where two of us are expected to do the work of eight from a few years ago?  M : And that's when as several people have bemoaned (not derogatory) here that 2) : they are stretched to pay the mortgage.h : M : Don't PhD's come these days for stating the obvious, or what is obvious to tL : people trying to stay in the workforce?  These "guys" must be in line for  : Harvard scholarships.  : A The trend here is to off-shore outsource as many IT-enabled jobs  @ as quickly as possible, much like the policy of your government:  =    http://old.smh.com.au/news/0112/04/national/national1.html:8    Blueprint for bosses: dump workers and head for Delhi  E   "Australian companies should consider moving operations to India to:9    exploit lower wages, says a Federal Government report.n  D    For operations ranging from call centres to software development,D    the report says there would be substantial cost savings in India.  C    It is the clearest Government endorsement yet of a strategy thatgC    Australian-based companies are increasingly adopting to maximiselE    returns in a globalised economy. The Department of Foreign Affairs E    and Trade's economic analytical unit produced the report - India: o    new economy, old economy..."l      H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 08:37:39 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)-3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant(3 Message-ID: <fwt4dmBcvlvW@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ] In article <01KH6ONAOLUA000703@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes::< >>The 9.1% of U.S. IT industry has vanished in the last year >>E >>   InformationWeek > IT Careers > Vanishing Act > February 15, 2002e: >>   http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020215S0049 >>H >>   New statistics suggest the overall IT workforce has shrunk. So just0 >>   where have the former workers gone-and why? >>1 >>   By Eric Chabrow and Diane Rezendes Khirallah  > O > Perhaps they're employed writing articles like this -- it takes two of them??t > N > Aren't all of our jobs shrinking?  Aren't most of us employed in situations N > where two of us are expected to do the work of eight from a few years ago?  M > And that's when as several people have bemoaned (not derogatory) here that -) > they are stretched to pay the mortgage.7 >   B 	Yes.  In some ways of course this is very bad as people are dying? 	from the stress.  From running a business it is probably good.6  C 	Perhaps the following is a jaded perception (and came quickly , son? 	obviously not a ton of thought) but consider it is most likelya 	better to:o  3 			1)  Have fewer more talented employees than moreo 				less talented employees.  6 			2)  Pay them above industry rates and they won't go
 				anywhere.a  A 	I've seen too many cases where there were a goodly number of notmF 	so talented employees.  Yes, they work and show up every day but whenB 	it comes time to get out of a "tight spot" they don't and flee toD 	the hills.  It isn't often that happens of course, but when it does 	it impacts business - badly.    > M > Don't PhD's come these days for stating the obvious, or what is obvious to aL > people trying to stay in the workforce?  These "guys" must be in line for  > Harvard scholarships.g >   C 	Probably.  The idea of course is to take a downturn in an economy,rE 	purge the folks that just hang out and draw a paycheck (we have seena? 	them and know who they are) leaving the talent to work harder, D 	increasing productivity.   Add doses of automation and viola!  LookB 	at the growth in the U.S. economy and productivity in the last 15G 	years!  Isn't it marvelous!  Not always .. if you are being wracked by @ 	mandatory overtime (I know those people) and you don't want it.   				Robe   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:17:45 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant ; Message-ID: <01KH6IOFHQMG8Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  E > 	Perhaps the following is a jaded perception (and came quickly , sooA > 	obviously not a ton of thought) but consider it is most likelya
 > 	better to:o > 5 > 			1)  Have fewer more talented employees than moreD > 				less talented employees. > 8 > 			2)  Pay them above industry rates and they won't go > 				anywhere.S  E There was a Dilbert cartoon where an employee criticises the boss by 8E saying "aren't your objectives to attract the BEST employees but pay eB them INDUSTRY-STANDARD salaries contradictory?" to which the boss 8 replies "that's how we like them---smart but clueless!".   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:53:06 GMTS1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) 3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existanta: Message-ID: <mdyz8.11626$My4.630729@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  , Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote:8 : In article <01KH6ONAOLUA000703@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ) : paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:P : > O : > Aren't all of our jobs shrinking?  Aren't most of us employed in situationshP : > where two of us are expected to do the work of eight from a few years ago?  O : > And that's when as several people have bemoaned (not derogatory) here that -+ : > they are stretched to pay the mortgage.0 : >  : D : 	Yes.  In some ways of course this is very bad as people are dyingA : 	from the stress.  From running a business it is probably good.  : I Employees dying from stress isn't a problem, since businesses have a way  1 to profit from the death of low-level employees: e  .   The secret "dead peasant" insurance policies  > Here's one of the "Houston Chronicle" stories on the practice:  6    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/front/1380381H    HoustonChronicle.com - 'Dead peasant' policies benefit top executives  G   "When workers at Portland General die, there's a little more money too7    spend on the top executives of the Enron subsidiary.   E    The utility has bought life insurance policies on the lives of itsTG    rank-and-file employees where the company is the beneficiary when anpI    employee dies. That money goes for special compensation and retirementn1    benefits for its top executives and directors.-  C    That's a galling realization for workers, many of whom bet their E    retirement on Enron stock, which cratered last year as the HoustonC(    energy giant slid into bankruptcy..."  1 Here's another that tells how the practice works:t  6    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/front/1389781H    HoustonChronicle.com - Secret life insurance policies draw more wrath  C   "...Companies typically buy the insurance policies in secret, andrC    employees have no way of knowing that their lives are insured tonD    benefit their employer. And, many times, an employee who leaves a:    company continues to be insured by the former employer.  B    Employers buy the policies to receive tax advantages, includingG    tax-free death benefits and tax-free investment income accumulation.-  B    Rep. Gene Green, D-Houston, has also asked the House Energy andG    Commerce Committee to conduct hearings into the corporate-owned lifeoH    insurance policies. Green introduced legislation last week that would@    require companies to notify their employees if they purchased'    corporate-owned insurance policies.".    E : 	Perhaps the following is a jaded perception (and came quickly , soRA : 	obviously not a ton of thought) but consider it is most likelye
 : 	better to:f : 5 : 			1)  Have fewer more talented employees than moreI : 				less talented employees. : 8 : 			2)  Pay them above industry rates and they won't go : 				anywhere.r  F No longer necessary. In fact industry rates have dropped for the first, time in 10 years (URL wrapped to two lines):  )    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl= E    story&ncid=581&e=2&cid=581&u=/nm/20020429/tc_nm/tech_salaries_dc_1--    High-Tech Pay Drops First Time in a Decade   G   "PALO ALTO, Calif. (Reuters) - Never mind that information technologycH    workers are making a lot less from stock options; their base salariesE    and bonuses are also falling sharply, a new survey released Monday-
    showed.  B    Information Technology managers should see an average 8 percentB    decline in total compensation this year, while rank and file ITH    workers should expect their pay to fall by 11 percent, according to aB    study by high-technology trade publication Information Week..."   : C : 	I've seen too many cases where there were a goodly number of notrH : 	so talented employees.  Yes, they work and show up every day but whenD : 	it comes time to get out of a "tight spot" they don't and flee toF : 	the hills.  It isn't often that happens of course, but when it does : 	it impacts business - badly.u :  : > L : > Don't PhD's come these days for stating the obvious, or what is obvious H : > to people trying to stay in the workforce?  These "guys" must be in " : > line for Harvard scholarships. : >  : E : 	Probably.  The idea of course is to take a downturn in an economy, G : 	purge the folks that just hang out and draw a paycheck (we have seen6A : 	them and know who they are) leaving the talent to work harder,m : 	increasing productivity.     E A lot of very good people have been laid off during this UNrecession.   G :   Add doses of automation and viola!  Look at the growth in the U.S. -I :   economy and productivity in the last 15 years!  Isn't it marvelous!  rJ :   Not always .. if you are being wracked by 	mandatory overtime (I know ( :   those people) and you don't want it. : 	 : 				Robo    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 10:36:05 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant 3 Message-ID: <xFGo8dKhQ$SX@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  n In article <mdyz8.11626$My4.630729@typhoon.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes:. > Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote: > G > : 	Perhaps the following is a jaded perception (and came quickly , sowC > : 	obviously not a ton of thought) but consider it is most likelyI > : 	better to:  > : 7 > : 			1)  Have fewer more talented employees than moreh  > : 				less talented employees. > : : > : 			2)  Pay them above industry rates and they won't go > : 				anywhere.  > H > No longer necessary. In fact industry rates have dropped for the first. > time in 10 years (URL wrapped to two lines): > + >    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl= G >    story&ncid=581&e=2&cid=581&u=/nm/20020429/tc_nm/tech_salaries_dc_1A/ >    High-Tech Pay Drops First Time in a Decadev > I >   "PALO ALTO, Calif. (Reuters) - Never mind that information technologyrJ >    workers are making a lot less from stock options; their base salariesG >    and bonuses are also falling sharply, a new survey released Monday( >    showed. >   = 	Yep.  But that does not mean "2)" above isn't true.  What it>@ 	does mean is that the DELTA isn't as large.  Likewise, starting@ 	salaries aren't increasing.  From a business standpoint this is$ 	a good place to be.  Dis-inflation.  D >    Information Technology managers should see an average 8 percentD >    decline in total compensation this year, while rank and file ITJ >    workers should expect their pay to fall by 11 percent, according to aD >    study by high-technology trade publication Information Week..."  @ 	I wonder how that is measured.  I read that to mean no one getsD 	a pay raise this year.  Inflation is 3%, you lose your 5% pay raiseE 	therefore an 8 percent decline.  Of course, factor in a sliding over:, 	of health care costs and maybe you get 11%.  ; 	But seriously... are we surrounded by folks and none of us>? 	are getting a pay raise this year?  Some of these surveys havee 	got to be cuckoo.   > : E > : 	I've seen too many cases where there were a goodly number of notwJ > : 	so talented employees.  Yes, they work and show up every day but whenF > : 	it comes time to get out of a "tight spot" they don't and flee toH > : 	the hills.  It isn't often that happens of course, but when it does! > : 	it impacts business - badly.h > :  > : > N > : > Don't PhD's come these days for stating the obvious, or what is obvious J > : > to people trying to stay in the workforce?  These "guys" must be in $ > : > line for Harvard scholarships. > : >  > : G > : 	Probably.  The idea of course is to take a downturn in an economy, I > : 	purge the folks that just hang out and draw a paycheck (we have seensC > : 	them and know who they are) leaving the talent to work harder,u  > : 	increasing productivity.    > G > A lot of very good people have been laid off during this UNrecession.  >     	Yep.  Likewise, hiring freezes.   				Robw   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:20:47 GMTT1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)o3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existantD: Message-ID: <zvzz8.13190$Q42.671898@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  , Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote:= : In article <mdyz8.11626$My4.630729@typhoon.austin.rr.com>,  5 : LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes:l0 : > Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote: : > I : > : 	Perhaps the following is a jaded perception (and came quickly , soTE : > : 	obviously not a ton of thought) but consider it is most likelyn : > : 	better to:s : > : 9 : > : 			1)  Have fewer more talented employees than morec" : > : 				less talented employees. : > : < : > : 			2)  Pay them above industry rates and they won't go : > : 				anywhere.  : > J : > No longer necessary. In fact industry rates have dropped for the first0 : > time in 10 years (URL wrapped to two lines): : > - : >    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=tI : >    story&ncid=581&e=2&cid=581&u=/nm/20020429/tc_nm/tech_salaries_dc_1 1 : >    High-Tech Pay Drops First Time in a Decade  : > K : >   "PALO ALTO, Calif. (Reuters) - Never mind that information technologyeL : >    workers are making a lot less from stock options; their base salariesI : >    and bonuses are also falling sharply, a new survey released Mondayn : >    showed. : >  : ? : 	Yep.  But that does not mean "2)" above isn't true.  What it0B : 	does mean is that the DELTA isn't as large.  Likewise, startingB : 	salaries aren't increasing.  From a business standpoint this is& : 	a good place to be.  Dis-inflation. : F : >    Information Technology managers should see an average 8 percentF : >    decline in total compensation this year, while rank and file ITL : >    workers should expect their pay to fall by 11 percent, according to aF : >    study by high-technology trade publication Information Week..." : B : 	I wonder how that is measured.  I read that to mean no one getsF : 	a pay raise this year.  Inflation is 3%, you lose your 5% pay raiseG : 	therefore an 8 percent decline.  Of course, factor in a sliding overm. : 	of health care costs and maybe you get 11%. : = : 	But seriously... are we surrounded by folks and none of ustA : 	are getting a pay raise this year?  Some of these surveys havet : 	got to be cuckoo.  D No, the job market and the economy is what's cuckoo, which helps to  explain Monster's traffic:  F    http://boston.internet.com/news/article/0,1928,2001_1025191,00.html2    News:  Monster Reports Traffic at All-Time High  @ Companies not making their numbers have hiring freezes, layoffs," furloughs (UNpaid days off); e.g.:  3    http://investor.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/a    0-9900-1028-9791191-0.html :    UPDATE 1-Aspen Technology reports net loss, to cut jobs  H   "...AspenTech said it plans to institute a mandatory furlough program D    and hiring freeze, temporarily cut managers' salaries, and reduceG    discretionary spending to cut fourth-quarter expenses to between $83     million to $85 million.  F    It expects fiscal fourth-quarter revenue to be about $86 million toE    $88 million, lower than the average revenue outlook of analysts asn&    calculated by research firm Multex.  G    With attention to longer term profitability, AspenTech said it would I    cut 1,950 jobs worldwide by realigning its business around two primarytF    lines of business, engineering software and operations software and?    reducing fiscal first-quarter 2003 expenses to about $81..."u  C The "1,950 jobs" should read "195 jobs", since the company only has  1800 employees world-wide.    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailg   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:25:28 +0100:1 From: "Lock Horsburgh" <lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk>r Subject: VMS SCAN productp. Message-ID: <aalnvg$7s7$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  J Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to parseE input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, andr& language translations from Basic to C.  ( We understand this product is long dead.  J Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendationsG for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?      Lock.e Lock.o     ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:21:28 GMT # From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>- Subject: Re: VMS SCAN product3- Message-ID: <3CCE8C41.5E70FE3E@earthlink.net>b  = My favorite is PCCTS (Perdue Compiler Construction Tool Set).e1 I didn't check this link but it might still work: & http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~hankd/PCCTS   Hope this helps.   -- Aaron Sliwinski   Lock Horsburgh wrote:% > L > Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to parseG > input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, andw( > language translations from Basic to C. > * > We understand this product is long dead. > L > Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendationsI > for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?w >  > Lock.e > Lock.i >  > ---e( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:41:46 -0400)* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: VMS SCAN producto- Message-ID: <0033000062066148000002L082*@MHS>e  + =0AIsn't this on one of the freeware disks?e   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETy% Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:12 AM)B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: VMS SCAN productn    H Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to pa= rseeE input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, ande& language translations from Basic to C.  ( We understand this product is long dead.  H Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendati= ons H for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?=       Lock.e Lock.d     --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:49:34 -0700u# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t Subject: RE: VMS SCAN producty9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEOCENAA.tom@kednos.com>t  @ It still runs on VAX and the sources, VAXSCAN are on FREEWARE40.C We talked about porting it to Alpha, since we could use essentiallyp@ the same interface to GEM that PL/I uses, but there seemed to beC little interest in it when we solicited opinions.  Awk or Bison are 
 possibilites.    >-----Original Message------7 >From: Lock Horsburgh [mailto:lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk]:& >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:25 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: VMS SCAN product >O >VK >Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to parse-F >input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, and' >language translations from Basic to C.  >u) >We understand this product is long dead.t > K >Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendationstH >for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC? >  >  >Lock. >Lock. >  >r >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.c; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02 >i >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:18:41 -0400s% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN product0- Message-ID: <3CCE99B1.559F0948@mail2.vcu.edu>r  H hhmm..  Perl? plus, the unix folks have all sorts of tools already built= to do that sort of stuff, but the details i'm still learning.y  G also, just because it's dead doesn't mean you can't find a long-lost cdg and load it anyhow....  G we're still using it as a mms make file generator, using a thing calledi7 MMSGEN we got from the space telescope people long ago.    Lock Horsburgh wrote:  > L > Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to parseG > input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, anda( > language translations from Basic to C. > * > We understand this product is long dead. > L > Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendationsI > for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?o >  > Lock.t > Lock.o >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:53:25 +0100o1 From: "Lock Horsburgh" <lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk>  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN producty. Message-ID: <aam7lt$j9m$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEOCENAA.tom@kednos.com...iB > It still runs on VAX and the sources, VAXSCAN are on FREEWARE40.E > We talked about porting it to Alpha, since we could use essentiallybB > the same interface to GEM that PL/I uses, but there seemed to beE > little interest in it when we solicited opinions.  Awk or Bison arer > possibilites.r >r > >-----Original Message----- 9 > >From: Lock Horsburgh [mailto:lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk]a( > >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:25 AM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >Subject: VMS SCAN product > >i > >oG > >Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used toi parseuH > >input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, and) > >language translations from Basic to C.n > >t+ > >We understand this product is long dead.h > >v= > >Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any. recommendationsbJ > >for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC? > >a > >x > >Lock. > >Lock. > >c > >a > >---) > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.s= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).iB > >Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02 > >e > >i  ) Thank you for that piece of good news ...a   Lock.o     ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02a   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 08:24:30 -0700) From: GARY.MORIN@EMERGIS.COM (Gary Morin)  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN product = Message-ID: <338eb8f7.0204300724.3d1ce16b@posting.google.com>   g "Lock Horsburgh" <lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<aalnvg$7s7$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...iL > Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to parseG > input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, andd( > language translations from Basic to C. > * > We understand this product is long dead. > L > Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendationsI > for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?n >  >  > Lock.d  F The SCAN programing language has been put on the VMS Freeware CD so itB is available to anybody for just the cost of the CD (or download).  4 SCAN was very cool in its day and still usefull now.  	   -- Garyr   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2002 10:19:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN product 3 Message-ID: <bxaH2I5s0fA0@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  b In article <aalnvg$7s7$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Lock Horsburgh" <lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk> writes:L > Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to parseG > input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, and ( > language translations from Basic to C. > * > We understand this product is long dead.  B VAX Scan is not at all dead.  It is available on the VMS Freeware.> It is no longer supported, but the source is there and you can1 make changes yourself.  I have made at least one.   L > Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any recommendationsI > for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?d  A If you wanted to have Scan on Alpha, use the Google search engine B to find posts in this newsgroup in the past three months asking if) there was any market for a port to Alpha.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:40:11 -0700a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>p Subject: RE: VMS SCAN product 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOIENAA.tom@kednos.com>o  : Curious about the virus scan product I note in your email,> what can you tell us about it?  Does it only certify outgoing?   >-----Original Message-----07 >From: Lock Horsburgh [mailto:lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk]R& >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:53 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: VMS SCAN product >a >c/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message,4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEOCENAA.tom@kednos.com...C >> It still runs on VAX and the sources, VAXSCAN are on FREEWARE40.fF >> We talked about porting it to Alpha, since we could use essentiallyC >> the same interface to GEM that PL/I uses, but there seemed to be F >> little interest in it when we solicited opinions.  Awk or Bison are >> possibilites. >> >> >-----Original Message-----: >> >From: Lock Horsburgh [mailto:lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk]) >> >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:25 AM  >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt >> >Subject: VMS SCAN producte >> > >> >H >> >Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used to >parseI >> >input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, andr* >> >language translations from Basic to C. >> >, >> >We understand this product is long dead. >> >> >> >Does anyone remember the package, and does anyone have any >recommendationsK >> >for other tools to do this kind of thing, whether on VMS or UNIX or PC?e >> > >> >	 >> >Lock.a	 >> >Lock.m >> > >> > >> >---t* >> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >> >Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02l >> > >> > >I* >Thank you for that piece of good news ... >e >Lock. >e >  >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.h; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/02 >d >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:18:13 -0600h* From: "Lorin Ricker" <Lorin@LockTrack.com> Subject: VMS SCAN producto> Message-ID: <FEEKJDACEFDDGEDALHPFMEHOCDAA.Lorin@LockTrack.com>  I I clearly recall being promised, years ago, that "all compilers and tools K would be ported from VAX to Alpha."  Somehow, SCAN didn't count as a memberpK of "all tools".  	I've still got a SCAN-based shareable image in production K on Alpha/VMS which was VESTed... pity is that I can't update it with recentsA "good ideas" (no, no live VAX around to cross-develop on...).  InnG particular, we used the language to support database field validations, @ doing things like proper name capitalization and mailing addressH regularization: e.g., turning data entered as "123 northwest elm street" into "123 NW Elm St.", etc.   K SCAN's programmer paradigm was much more SNOBOL-like than anything, using acK "string of beads" text-processing model, but a vast improvement on SNOBOL's K own punch-card oriented syntax.  Much of the language was declarative, with @ triggers (patterns, very general purpose and powerful) doing theG string/pattern detection and macros invoked to do transform/processing.d  L I recall attending a few DECUS sessions on SCAN, back in the "good old days"E (mid '80s); SCAN sessions were always quite small, and I recall beingeF somewhat disappointed by the contents: not particularly imaginative orK creative, given the language's domain and potential.  I also recall that mycF own programming efforts in SCAN were unlike writing more "traditional"L programs; like my college courses in ODEs (ordinary differential equations),K I'd have to "stare at the problem until a solution occurred to me" --- muchEA more thought and design, rather than "just coding loops, data andgK processing."  Remember, the string-processing "loop" was already built intoeH SCAN; you'd just hang grammar, triggers and macros on it, then feed it aG stream of characters (a string, a file, etc.), to achieve your intendedHK result/transform.  Perhaps this is one reason why it didn't become a reallye< popular or pervasive tool among a wider programmer audience?  I Truly a unique, valuable and powerful tool in DEC's arsenal.  The productsL achieved functional stability by about v1.2 or 1.3... then it seemed to dropI off the radar.  Apparently, "they" even lost the "formula" for a completeyF build! -- I got the impression from someone that the reason there's noJ free-ware port to Alpha is because the "source kit" is somehow incomplete.' Anyone else have a better take on this?c  L Yes, you can do string/text processing in other languages like awk and perl,J but they don't have SCAN's "flavor" at all.  I mourned its loss, and wouldK heartily welcome its resurrection.  Heck, I'd even help, if I had somethingi	 to offer.    Lorin    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:23:05 -0700r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s Subject: RE: VMS SCAN product 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOPENAA.tom@kednos.com>l  J As Larry pointed out in an earlier post, this subject came up a few monthsL ago.  Since SCAN and PL/I originally both passed through VCG, and given thatJ the PL/I port to Alpha uses essentially a VCG to GEM translation, we couldL hook up SCAN as well.  We asked the question a while who would be interestedF if we ported and commercialized it, but the response was pretty meager   >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Lorin Ricker [mailto:Lorin@LockTrack.com]' >Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:18 AMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: VMS SCAN product >s >oJ >I clearly recall being promised, years ago, that "all compilers and toolsL >would be ported from VAX to Alpha."  Somehow, SCAN didn't count as a member> >of "all tools".  	I've still got a SCAN-based shareable image >in productionL >on Alpha/VMS which was VESTed... pity is that I can't update it with recentB >"good ideas" (no, no live VAX around to cross-develop on...).  InH >particular, we used the language to support database field validations,A >doing things like proper name capitalization and mailing address8I >regularization: e.g., turning data entered as "123 northwest elm street"s >into "123 NW Elm St.", etc. > L >SCAN's programmer paradigm was much more SNOBOL-like than anything, using aL >"string of beads" text-processing model, but a vast improvement on SNOBOL'sL >own punch-card oriented syntax.  Much of the language was declarative, withA >triggers (patterns, very general purpose and powerful) doing theiH >string/pattern detection and macros invoked to do transform/processing. >rC >I recall attending a few DECUS sessions on SCAN, back in the "goody
 >old days"F >(mid '80s); SCAN sessions were always quite small, and I recall beingG >somewhat disappointed by the contents: not particularly imaginative oriL >creative, given the language's domain and potential.  I also recall that myG >own programming efforts in SCAN were unlike writing more "traditional"aA >programs; like my college courses in ODEs (ordinary differentialc >equations),L >I'd have to "stare at the problem until a solution occurred to me" --- muchB >more thought and design, rather than "just coding loops, data andL >processing."  Remember, the string-processing "loop" was already built intoI >SCAN; you'd just hang grammar, triggers and macros on it, then feed it auH >stream of characters (a string, a file, etc.), to achieve your intendedL >result/transform.  Perhaps this is one reason why it didn't become a really= >popular or pervasive tool among a wider programmer audience?o >dJ >Truly a unique, valuable and powerful tool in DEC's arsenal.  The product> >achieved functional stability by about v1.2 or 1.3... then it >seemed to drop J >off the radar.  Apparently, "they" even lost the "formula" for a completeG >build! -- I got the impression from someone that the reason there's noVK >free-ware port to Alpha is because the "source kit" is somehow incomplete.-( >Anyone else have a better take on this? >mC >Yes, you can do string/text processing in other languages like awks
 >and perl,K >but they don't have SCAN's "flavor" at all.  I mourned its loss, and wouldrL >heartily welcome its resurrection.  Heck, I'd even help, if I had something
 >to offer. >. >Lorin >P >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002r >  ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:22:08 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o; Subject: ZIP strangeness (search list as part of file spec) ; Message-ID: <01KH6GOF76UE8Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    ZIP zip-file name zip-file list1   Used it for years.  I Assume that the zip-file name (name of the file zip creates) is given as 0I LOGICAL:ZIP.FILE, where LOGICAL is a search list.  (The list of files to dF be zipped in my test case was also in (the same) search list; in this E case as expected it picks up files from the directories in the order rF defined by the search list).  ZIP.FILE ends up in the SECOND, not the ; FIRST, directory specified by the search list.  This seems .I counter-intuitive (i.e. different than what happens normally with search a lists).r   Why?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.238 ************************