1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 17 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 451       Contents:3 Re: BLISS -   was: Reading FP, SP, and PC registers 3 Re: BLISS -   was: Reading FP, SP, and PC registers 3 Re: BLISS -   was: Reading FP, SP, and PC registers  Re: Booting off users  Re: Booting off users  Re: Booting off users < Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion; Re: Ensuring Portability of code to other operating systems ; Re: Ensuring Portability of code to other operating systems ; Re: Ensuring Portability of code to other operating systems  Re: file manager Re: file manager Re: file manager' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap  Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Going 7.2-1 -> 7.3-1# High quality of HP Software support ' Re: High quality of HP Software support ' Re: High quality of HP Software support ' Re: High quality of HP Software support * How can I format a SCSI RZ28M on VAX 4000?@ Re: I need to get a copy of Microsoft VM for xp any suggestions?5 ISDN router with two simultaneous dial-up connections 9 Re: ISDN router with two simultaneous dial-up connections 3 Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win95 3 Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win95 3 Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win95 $ Re: keypad emulation in xterm window$ Re: keypad emulation in xterm window@ Re: Licenses (was Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha]...))@ Re: Licenses (was Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha]...)) Re: looking for a DELQA  MntVerifyTimeout ? RE: MntVerifyTimeout ? Re: MntVerifyTimeout ?& Re: OpenVMS Comes to Itanium - Houston& Re: OpenVMS Comes to Itanium - Houston& Re: OpenVMS Comes to Itanium - Houston OpenVMS tar  Re: OpenVMS tar ? Re: Oracle 9i rel 2 restricted to EV56 or later chips - why ??? ? Re: Oracle 9i rel 2 restricted to EV56 or later chips - why ??? ? Re: Oracle 9i rel 2 restricted to EV56 or later chips - why ??? * Procedure to enlarge system name required.. Re: Procedure to enlarge system name required.. Re: Reading a backup set from a ISO-9660 disk?B Re: Recompile applications when migrating from OpenVMS 7.1 to 7.3?D Re: REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION - DECCXX 6.5 UNREACHABLE CODE WARNINGS tcpware smtp  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?$ Re: V7.3-1 and TIMA for FC Minimerge$ Re: V7.3-1 and TIMA for FC Minimerge$ Re: V7.3-1 and TIMA for FC Minimerge Re: VMS in M$ ad Re: VMS in M$ ad Re: VMS in M$ ad Re: VMS in M$ ad Re: VS3100 questions Re: VS3100 questions Re: VWS question$ Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95? Re: [OT] (really?) For Terry S.  Re: [OT] (really?) For Terry S.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:29:25 GMT 0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)< Subject: Re: BLISS -   was: Reading FP, SP, and PC registers9 Message-ID: <3d5d4542.2430133437@proxy.news.easynews.com>   B On 16 Aug 2002 07:57:04 -0700, cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) wrote:  E >TBK$SHOW_TRACEBACK. BLISS. Can't find it and never written a line of D >the stuff in my life. Poked around and have the C caller and actionE >routine working at this point. Guess I've been around long enough to E >muddle through the BLISS based on past C knowledge. I'm seeing stuff F >that makes it look like the default passing mechanism is by referenceD >but then there's this "dot stuff" all over the place which that has! >this "pass by value" feel to it.   A There are a fewkey concepts that a C programmer must keep in mind  in order to understand BLISS:   = Concept #1: BLISS is an expression language.  It doesn't have B statements, per se.  Things such as if/then/else, loops, begin/endD blocks, etc., are all expressions that have a well-defined value andB can be used as components of other expressions.  The semicolon (;)> is an expression separator and means "discard the value of the9 preceding expression and start a new one".  The C syntax:   !     (predicate) ? value1 : value2   B syntax works along these lines and is semantically the same as the BLISS if expression:  (     if predicate then value1 else value2  B Concept #2: BLISS does not have data types, per se, or put anotherD way, it has only one data type:  the BLISS value, which for BLISS-32E is a 32-bit value and for BLISS-64 is a 64-bit value.  Type semantics A are conferred by the operators one uses on expressions.  They are B not a property of the identifiers or expressions themselves, as inB most programming languages.  BLISS is the ultimate in weakly-typed
 languages.  E Concept #3: In C, identifiers have two values, a lvalue (the value if E the identifier appears on the left-hand side of an assignment) and an E rvalue (the value if the identifier appears on the right-hand side of C an assighment).  In BLISS, an identifier has only one value that is D used wherever the identifier appears, and that value is bound to the7 identifier when it is declared.  Thus, the declaration:        own foo;  F declares foo to be an identifier whose visibility is restricted to the? scope in which it appears (versus global, meaning it is visible A in other modules).  The declaration also allocates a BLISS-value- A sized piece of static memory.  The value of identifier foo is the @ address of this piece of memory.  This declaration is equivalent to the C declaration:        static int foo;   C except in the BLISS case there isn't any integer-ness implied.  The @ data type depends entirely on how foo is used.  The declaration:       literal bar = 3;  E declares bar to be an identifier whose visiblity is restricted to the B scope in which it appears, and whose value is 3.  This declaration. doesn't allocate any memory.  The declaration:       local xyz: initial(bar);  B allocates a BLISS-value-sized unit of automatic storage (either on> the stack or in a register, at the compiler's option) that is D initialized to the value of identifier bar (3, assuming the previousD declarations).  Identifier xyz's value is the address of the storage unit.   . Now suppose we have the assignment expression:  	     b = a   F where b and a are arbitrary expressions.  The semantics are, "evaluate> expressions a and b, then put the value of expression a in the? location given by the value of expression b".  Hence, given the # above declarations, the expression:   
     foo = bar   E results in the value of bar (the numeric value 3) being stored at the A location given by foo's value (in this case a piece of staticlly- = allocated memory).  The dot operator (.) is like the asterisk @ operator (*) in C in that it means "fetch a BLISS value from theC location indicated by the expression to the right of the operator".  Thus:        foo = .xyz  B will also store the numeric value 3 at the location given by foo's; value.  '.xyz' means "fetch a BLISS value from the location + indicated by xyz's value".  The expression:   
    foo = .bar   @ would result in an access violation because it will result in an> attempt to fetch from location 3.  To fetch or store into only< part of a BLISS value, one uses the angle-brackets notation:      .expr0<expr1, expr2, expr3>  @ means "fetch the portion of the BLISS value at expr0 starting atF the bit position given by expr1, extending for expr2 bits.  If the lowC bit of expr3 is 0, zero-extend the result to a full BLISS value; if A the low bit of expr3 is 1, sign-extend the result to a full BLISS @ value."  On the left side of an assignment expression, the angleD bracket notation stores into only the indicated bit positions of the assignment target.  8 Note that because of these semantics, BLISS doesn't need@ an explicit "take the lvalue" operator (the C & operator).  This sequence of expressions:       xyz = foo;     .xyz = bar;   C also ends up depositing numeric value 3 in the statically-allocated B memory associated with foo.  The first assignment puts foo's valueA in location xyz.  Remember that foo's value is the ADDRESS of the > memory, not the contents.  The second assignment fetches xyz'sD value (i.e., the address of the memory associated with foo) and uses@ it as the location in which to store bar's value (i.e., 3).  The> nearest C equivalent would be (assuming xyz is declared int*):       xyz = &foo;      *xyz = bar;   ? The final thing is routine argument passing.  In a routine call A expression, all arguments are passed by value, which makes sense, @ since the only data type you have is the BLISS value.  Note that? for vectors and blocks (the moral equivalents of C's arrays and A structs), this in effect means what C calls passing by reference, ? because the value of the identifier associated with a vector or @ block declaration is the address of the data item.  The value of> a formal parameter in a routine declaration is the location of@ the passed actual parameter (it gets more complex than that when? the REF keyword is in use, but I'm not going into that).  Thus:   +     routine assign(a, b, c) = .c = .a + .b;   ? means "fetch the values from the locations of formal parameters A a and b, add them, fetch the value from the location of formal c, F and store the sum at that value."  The value of the routine expressionD itself is the value of the assignment expression, which is the valueD of its right-hand side (the sum of the values fetched from a and b). We could call this routine:        assign(.xyz, 1, foo)  A using the previous declarations.  This will result in storing the ) value 4 in the memory represented by foo.   ? I hope this all makes understanding BLISS a bit less confusing.   
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 15:33:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: BLISS -   was: Reading FP, SP, and PC registers3 Message-ID: <j2gFAUWWqZV2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <3d5d4542.2430133437@proxy.news.easynews.com>, prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) writes:  ? > Concept #1: BLISS is an expression language.  It doesn't have D > statements, per se.  Things such as if/then/else, loops, begin/endF > blocks, etc., are all expressions that have a well-defined value andD > can be used as components of other expressions.  The semicolon (;)@ > is an expression separator and means "discard the value of the, > preceding expression and start a new one".  9 Think of it as equivalent to ALTMODE (Escape) in TECO :-)   D > Concept #2: BLISS does not have data types, per se, or put anotherF > way, it has only one data type:  the BLISS value, which for BLISS-32G > is a 32-bit value and for BLISS-64 is a 64-bit value.  Type semantics C > are conferred by the operators one uses on expressions.  They are D > not a property of the identifiers or expressions themselves, as inD > most programming languages.  BLISS is the ultimate in weakly-typed > languages.  L And if you want better protection, use Field features (SDL/LANGUAGE=BLISSF).   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2002 02:59:15 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: BLISS -   was: Reading FP, SP, and PC registers- Message-ID: <87y9b6635o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   $ cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes:  B > I don't suppose there's a "BLISS for Dummies" or "Teach Yourself$ > BLISS in 5 Days" book out there...  E Only "BLISS for the Terminally Stupid". Written by Brian Kernigan and . some Richie guy :) Called See or some thing...  C Go to Hunters collection and grab the BLISS primer. And get the VAX B bliss kit to get the manuals. They seems to have vanished over the last few years.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:44:10 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Booting off usersA Message-ID: <_Jb79.30798$2p2.1457928@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   4 "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> wrote in message% news:ajiu510udf@enews3.newsguy.com...  > Hello all! > L > Quick question...any way to boot users off at a certain time with OpenVMS?  L Most VMS systems boot off disk.  Some boot off the network.  I'm not exactly: sure what kind of adapter you'll need to boot off users...   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:08:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Booting off users, Message-ID: <3D5D5BA2.644D662F@videotron.ca>  N > > Quick question...any way to boot users off at a certain time with OpenVMS?  M You can do this in DCL. A loop that uses the lexical F$GETJPI to scan through L the process list, gets info about each process (process ID and process type)8 and then STOP/ID for each process that is "interactive".  M Note that some users might be allowed to remain logged in since some accesses N might be deemed "network", but in such cases, you wouldn't be able to know the> difference between such a user and a bona fide server process.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 02:06:34 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Booting off users' Message-ID: <3D5DB4A6.7D345675@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > 6 > "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> wrote in message' > news:ajiu510udf@enews3.newsguy.com...  > > Hello all! > > N > > Quick question...any way to boot users off at a certain time with OpenVMS? > N > Most VMS systems boot off disk.  Some boot off the network.  I'm not exactly< > sure what kind of adapter you'll need to boot off users...  * I guess any that can swing a MOP, huh? :-)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:50:26 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>E Subject: Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion , Message-ID: <3D5D2D52.4020103@tsoft-inc.com>   Patrick Young wrote:  a > "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message news:<3D5B81A2.18537.6244B8@localhost>...  > F >>When I discuss the Windows version, I make it clear that you should H >>NEVER, EVER, run anything else on the box -- make it a 100% dedicated 3 >>server.  The Alpha OpenVMS version is rock solid.  >> > E > How about killing the Window(tm) version? It would be for the best.  > K > The thinking of the borgbots(tm) who run this in a commercial environment M > (only because they have to) will be - "hey lookit - this is real unreliable I > software that runs under this emulator - lets study it and do it under  J > Window(tm), it'll run a lot better there". Vision of "consultants", yearN > long project, and a solution everyone will hate until the next "consultants"	 > arrive.  > < > *NOT HAPPY JAN* (Aus. saying - go look this up on google). > H > I can't help thinking you are taking sales away from current Alpha and > Future Itanic products.  >    That's one perspective.   O But how about the original subject of this thread?  The move to Alpha VMS from  J VAX VMS, and some software for which there is no sources?  I've suggested P running a small VAX and use networking to make the data available, and that's a S solution.  However, running the VAX emulator on an Alpha is another valid solution.   P If someone is determined to run windoz, then believe me (because I've seen it), Q they will find some way to reach their goal.  I've seen very good apps shut down  P because they run on VMS, and the users on their third or fourth replacement for M the app, and not very happy.  But the windoz/Unix bigots are very happy with uO their move, and if a user causes too much fuss, I've seen them also shut down,   as in fired.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:39:27 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>sD Subject: Re: Ensuring Portability of code to other operating systems, Message-ID: <3D5D54EC.E9AC7117@videotron.ca>   Pete wrote:eL > One thing I've thought of is not calling system service routines directly,H > but instead calling inline functions which in turn call system service> > routines. Does that sound like a good idea? Any other ideas?  L However, this doesn't help much when the underlying data or functionality isL different. For instance, will your program store date/time as unix longwordsM and your  inline functions always convert those back to VMS's quadword formatp for manipulation ?  N While VMS is gaining much Unix compatibility with new and improved RTLs and weH are told support for "fork",  the goal is to make it easier to port unix software TO  VMS.   G But if one considers VMS to be a superset of Unix,  should one restrictr5 himself to using only the lowest common denominator ?a  N There are many concepts in VMS that make for more productive programming, moreL elegant and robust programs. Are you really willing to sacrifice those TODAYH just so that at some later time, you might save some time when porting ?  J As a simple example. If you use the C RTL "fopen" instead of SYS$OPEN, youK might know when the fopen fails, but you won't know why. With SYS$OPEN, them status code is very explicit.   I Are you going to prevent yourself from using ASTs which make for far moretN elegant and often more efficient programs just because at some later time, you  may have to move to another OS ?  L My approach is a bit different.  Make a very OS specific core, (for instanceJ the server code that establishes a network object (or binds a service to aJ port) and is AST driven), and tag to it the much more portable application? specific stuff (such as parsing the contents of a transaction).i  K This way, when porting to an inferior OS, I can rethink the core to work iniP the concepts supported by that OS and still keep the application specific stuff.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:44:27 GMTa0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)D Subject: Re: Ensuring Portability of code to other operating systems9 Message-ID: <3d5d5473.2434021998@proxy.news.easynews.com>   F On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:27:27 +0100, "Pete" <no.address@all.com> wrote:  K >What steps should people take to ensure their C++ code is portable in caseX/ >you move from VMS to another operating system?  >aK >One thing I've thought of is not calling system service routines directly,bG >but instead calling inline functions which in turn call system service = >routines. Does that sound like a good idea? Any other ideas?   A It's not really any different from ensuring that your C++ code isSB portable to/from any other operating system.  Some basic concepts:  C 1) Avoid use of the C primitive data types, especially long.  TheseeF can tie your code to a particular machine word size.  Instead of using@ char, int, long, etc. directly, define macros for the types yourB application uses.  For example, if you use the macro INT64 to meanD "signed 64-bit integer", then if you port from a platform where longC is a 64-bit integer to one where 64-bit integer is "long long", youaA only have to change one bit of code--the macro definition--versus = changing every place in your code where you declared a 64-bitk integer.  C 2) Wherever possible, use standard library functions to get the job B done.  Do your sequential file I/O using fopen/fget/fclose, or the9 C++ standard template library, versus using RMS directly.i  F 3) Where there isn't a direct standard library function to do the job,B or where you need to go to the lower-level routines for efficiencyF reasons, don't call OS-dependent services and APIs directly.  Instead,D write a function to perform the abstract semantics that are desired,F and use the OS-dependent calls in the implementation of that function.@ For example, don't do RMS indexed file read-by-key directly, but? instead write a function read_by_key() and put the RMS calls in @ there.  This minimizes the amount of code you'll have to rewrite to port to another platform.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.w   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 15:26:15 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eD Subject: Re: Ensuring Portability of code to other operating systems3 Message-ID: <+EcXtdplOFRb@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  l In article <3d5d5473.2434021998@proxy.news.easynews.com>, prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) writes:  E > 1) Avoid use of the C primitive data types, especially long.  ThesetH > can tie your code to a particular machine word size.  Instead of usingB > char, int, long, etc. directly, define macros for the types yourD > application uses.  For example, if you use the macro INT64 to meanF > "signed 64-bit integer", then if you port from a platform where longE > is a 64-bit integer to one where 64-bit integer is "long long", you C > only have to change one bit of code--the macro definition--versusm? > changing every place in your code where you declared a 64-bitw
 > integer.  ? Better yet, declare your own datatype, specifying that it be 64  (or however many) bits.e  H Of course the last time I heard, that will require you switch to Ada :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Aug 2002 22:04:49 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>h Subject: Re: file managers* Message-ID: <ajjsu1$m6e$1@news1.Radix.Net>  ) Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:r > Jiri Hudak wrote:m >> .H >> Exist free file manager for OpenVMS72? (midnight commander or other).
 >> Thank you.t  H > I don't know midnight commander, but perhaps look for SWING or CSWING,8 > gives a tree like display of files. Also look for DFU.  L also a couple of versions of flist - I've one (though if he's looking for an> mc-clone, cswing probably is the closest to his expectations).  # 	http://invisible-island.net/flist/m" 	ftp://invisible-island.net/flist/   -- i= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2002 01:18:07 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: file manageri, Message-ID: <ajk88f028hl@enews4.newsguy.com>    Jiri Hudak <hudak@osu.cz> wrote:G > Exist free file manager for OpenVMS72? (midnight commander or other).t > Thank you. > Jiri  $ I'm rather partial to DX Version 2.5@ http://nucwww.chem.sunysb.edu/htbin/software_list.cgi?package=dx  J Unfortunatly it's not Y2k compliant, as dates such as 2001 show up as 101.   		Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 02:03:01 GMTg1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l Subject: Re: file managerh' Message-ID: <3D5DB3D1.4AAA21C1@fsi.net>    Nic Clews wrote: >  > Jiri Hudak wrote:L > >aI > > Exist free file manager for OpenVMS72? (midnight commander or other).a > > Thank you. > H > I don't know midnight commander, but perhaps look for SWING or CSWING,& > gives a tree like display of files.   B ...but, be careful: CSwing (and maybe Swing, too) has some one-key8 commands that are *VERY* dangerous and cannot be undone.   -- e David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:29:39 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap. Message-ID: <nwb79.125045$UU1.21610@sccrnsc03>   > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message) > news:eh679.42899$983.58105@rwcrnsc53...  >  > [snip] >aH > > But let's assume the day comes that HP-UX and the ongoing COE effort yielde > a L > > UNIX that offers complete feature and function parity with VMS. Your VMSG > > apps run in the environment. End users don't notice any difference.t Ditto,I > > more or less, for managers. This hypothetical day comes to pass rightd > aroundF > > the ~2006 timeframe of the post-Marvel, post-Superdome big-ass IPF server.TE > > If these assumptions come to pass, does it really matter what theo > underlying
 > > OS is? > >  >eK > No, it wouldn't matter what the underlying OS is.  But it would be easiere to+ > reach this nirvana if you start with VMS.s >    You have a valid point there!o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:43:13 GMTy1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>=0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap, Message-ID: <l6g79.59942$me6.7795@sccrnsc01>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ; news:sGb79.28634$Fw3.1513349@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...e >r< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:3WBhrZ7tedje@eisner.encompasserve.org...rD > > In article <eh679.42899$983.58105@rwcrnsc53>, "Terry C. Shannon"" > <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: > >oJ > > > But let's assume the day comes that HP-UX and the ongoing COE effort	 > yield atJ > > > UNIX that offers complete feature and function parity with VMS. Your VMS " > > > apps run in the environment. > > 6 > > Including my device drivers and kernel mode code ? > > D > > A neat trick, but I agree with the poster who said starting from > > VMS would be easier. >v@ > Especially since if/when VMS runs on Itanic it will be running > little-endian, unlike PH-UX. >rJ > ("Did you also want *data* with that migration, Sir?  And the ability to< > cluster with your existing systems as well?  Oh, dear...") >d > - bill  . Another good answer to my "what if?" scenario.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:16:46 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap' Message-ID: <3D5DA8F7.94025A0D@fsi.net>l   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:- > & > [Delusional hallucinations snipped.] >-N > If these assumptions come to pass, does it really matter what the underlying > OS is? > ( > Not a troll, just an idea to consider,  B Hey, Terry? Where can I get a dime bag of whatever you're smokin'?  E When ODS, RMS, DCL, VMScluster (including the DLM) and the entire VMS:C runtime library are ported to another non-VMS descendent o.s., I'll H dance naked on stage at the (then current successor to) DECUS symposium.   There. You have it on record.h  * ...and remember: you heard it here, first!   -- m David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 22:31:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)v0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap3 Message-ID: <TAn8dvWPL++Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  [ In article <3D5DA8F7.94025A0D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e >> s' >> [Delusional hallucinations snipped.]  >>O >> If these assumptions come to pass, does it really matter what the underlying 	 >> OS is?e >> e) >> Not a troll, just an idea to consider,  > D > Hey, Terry? Where can I get a dime bag of whatever you're smokin'? > G > When ODS, RMS, DCL, VMScluster (including the DLM) and the entire VMSiE > runtime library are ported to another non-VMS descendent o.s., I'llnJ > dance naked on stage at the (then current successor to) DECUS symposium.  A A blatant effort to get us all to lobby HP against those ports...D   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:33:28 -0000L- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)n% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappere5 Message-ID: <926C86F1Bwarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>g  6 susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in  <ajivhu$af9$1@web1.cup.hp.com>:    >Dear News Group,f >yF >I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I am? >happy when ever I see it in print (with the exception of large I >consulting companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths F >to force trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS inG >print here so we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make peoplea+ >upset and I apologize if that is the case.l >o >Warm Regards, >Sue >e  J I'm quite pleased to see HP dropping some $$ on marketing AlphaServer and K OpenVMS, regardless of whether it says *exactly* what one individual wants a to hear or not.  Cheers!   ws   -- .   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)e The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:03:10 -0400b( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper , Message-ID: <3D5D304E.1090000@tsoft-inc.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote:   > Dear News Group, > M > I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I am happyw > when ever I see it in printi     And so do most of us.   (  (with the exception of large consultingH > companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths to force > trends that they predict).      D A pox on them and their descendents for a thousand generations.  :-)  . I put things I find about VMS in print here soF > we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make people upset and I  > apologize if that is the case.    M Well, your apologizies can be short and swift.  There are a few, I'm betting -P that it won't take all the fingers of one hand to count them, maybe just 2, who O will refuse to see anything but the worst in anything about VMS.  Heck, Andrew fK isn't so bad, and he's the enemy.  Maybe a thought for those few to ponder.   N Note that there are a whole bunch more that can be critical, but mostly fair, G and wish that you, Rich, and the whole gang wasn't operating at such a  P disadvantage.  If you were playing tennis, you'd have a 10 foot hole from which O you had to serve.  We do appriciate all the efforts, but we still haven't seen tA anyone higher up than Rich actually do anything positive for VMS.t   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:41:19 GMTw5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper03 Message-ID: <3Pa79.34$cy2.1193028@news.cpqcorp.net>c  A David Froble wrote in message <3D5D304E.1090000@tsoft-inc.com>...s  H >Note that there are a whole bunch more that can be critical, but mostly fair,uG >and wish that you, Rich, and the whole gang wasn't operating at such ahJ >disadvantage.  If you were playing tennis, you'd have a 10 foot hole from which J >you had to serve.  We do appriciate all the efforts, but we still haven't seenB >anyone higher up than Rich actually do anything positive for VMS. >l >   K Perhaps insignificant to many, but everyone in BCS is being asked to take aoH short set of basic training modules over the internal net to learn about what our group does.  I The introduction is a 45 minute video of the head of BCS (the group whichrK includes the enterprise Itanium and PA-RISC hardware platforms, HP-UX, VMS,eE NSK, and Alpha).  OpenVMS is mentioned in it along with NSK - with nonG apologies, and in a very positive way (in fact, he mentions that he hasNL gotten more mail from OpenVMS customers than *any* other customer group, andK they have convinced him just how loyal and important they are).  One of the L self paced modules that people are asked to take along with the PA-RISC, andK HP-UX sections - is OpenVMS.  In fact, a good history and overview of Alphai is also included.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:12:48 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperi- Message-ID: <zgb79.46305$983.56691@rwcrnsc53>    -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher, SKHPCl$ Director at Large, Encompass US Inc.6 Director of Technical Marketing, Science Medicus, Inc. terryshannon@attbi.com www.openvms.orgu www.sciencemedicus.com@ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:ajivhu$af9$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear News Group, >'G > I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I am- happy-E > when ever I see it in print (with the exception of large consulting.H > companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths to force > trends that they predict).  A Might you be referring to coin-operated consulting companies? ;-}t  /  I put things I find about VMS in print here sorF > we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make people upset and I  > apologize if that is the case.  G Can't please all the people all the time and you sure as hell bend overhL backwards to do the right thing. The sooner HPQ wakes up and makes you a VP,K the better. As for the whiners, just advise 'em to get a life. They seem to  be lacking one!k   Best,   
 Charlie Matco    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:17:50 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperp? Message-ID: <ilb79.142319$sA3.226060@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>s  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageo& news:3D5D304E.1090000@tsoft-inc.com...   <snip> > Heck, AndrewE > isn't so bad, and he's the enemy.  Maybe a thought for those few tot ponder..  J Never underestimate the enemy. Andrew may work for a rival, and many of us< might not like the rival, but Andrew is anything but stupid.   >.I > Note that there are a whole bunch more that can be critical, but mostly  fair,aH > and wish that you, Rich, and the whole gang wasn't operating at such aK > disadvantage.  If you were playing tennis, you'd have a 10 foot hole fromr which K > you had to serve.  We do appriciate all the efforts, but we still haven'tu seenC > anyone higher up than Rich actually do anything positive for VMS.   I Well, there's the Carly visit to ZK03, which means she at least now knowstJ what VMS is. Once she realizes that OpenVMS is spelled VM$, she may show a shift in attitude...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:14:39 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper > Message-ID: <jib79.168745$uj.238584@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message/ news:926C86F1Bwarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30...r8 > susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in! > <ajivhu$af9$1@web1.cup.hp.com>:s >e > >Dear News Group,4 > >9H > >I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I amA > >happy when ever I see it in print (with the exception of largenK > >consulting companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruthstH > >to force trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS inI > >print here so we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make peoplea- > >upset and I apologize if that is the case.l > >  > >Warm Regards, > >Sue > >  >sK > I'm quite pleased to see HP dropping some $$ on marketing AlphaServer andrL > OpenVMS, regardless of whether it says *exactly* what one individual wants > to hear or not.  Cheers!  K No way can one produce something that everyone wants to hear. I like WarrenaK Zevon, the Stones, and Pink Floyd. Other people like Frank Sinatra and M&M, 	 et al....    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:04:56 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperi, Message-ID: <3D5D5AE3.796C158D@videotron.ca>  M If everyone just said "kudos" without any constructive criticism and feedbackrN on how their perceived the wording of such messages, then HP would continue to stick its foot in the mouth.  H It is by telling Sue how we perceive the messages that Sue can then make( sugggestions based on customer feedback.  F I don't see how saying that the use of certain words should be avoided/ would/should be construed as being so negative.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:34:40 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappersB Message-ID: <4Bb79.176587$6Z1.8064248@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:ajivhu$af9$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear News Group, >aG > I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I aml happyoE > when ever I see it in print (with the exception of large consultinglH > companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths to forceL > trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS in print here soF > we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make people upset and I  > apologize if that is the case.  C There's no need to apologize.  Letting people know that *something*oJ beneficial is being done for VMS, even if it's not earth-shattering, is noL crime:  some will feel encouraged, some will be properly critical, some will be both at the same time.i  F There are a few who will mindlessly trumpet any positive news as VMS'sJ Second Coming, and a few others who will dismiss it as utterly irrelevant.I Neither viewpoint is particularly intelligent, though even they sometimesi) inadvertently let drop a pearl of wisdom.o   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:50:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappery, Message-ID: <3D5D5773.F57DCA95@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:L > trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS in print here soF > we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make people upset and I  > apologize if that is the case.  I Sue, you need not apologize. I can't speak for others, but your statement@H didn't make me upset. I just commented on the fact that the use of wordsL "commitment" by HP should be avoided because it reminds customers of June 25- 2001 and reminds them not to trust Compaq/HP.m  I If HP is truly sincere about Alpha, it just needs to market it instead of N trying to continue to justify the June 25 decision. And if HP is truly sincere5 about Alpha, why does it not release EV7 right away ?p  K The best HP can do is to avoid reminding customers of what happened on JuneiR 25. And this means avoiding expressions such as "commitment" and "plan of record".   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:16:41 GMTm# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperZI Message-ID: <ZYd79.28767$8aG1.22128@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:3Pa79.34$cy2.1193028@news.cpqcorp.net...7 >( >nK > The introduction is a 45 minute video of the head of BCS (the group whichVH > includes the enterprise Itanium and PA-RISC hardware platforms, HP-UX, VMS,G > NSK, and Alpha).  OpenVMS is mentioned in it along with NSK - with no.I > apologies, and in a very positive way (in fact, he mentions that he has3J > gotten more mail from OpenVMS customers than *any* other customer group, andaI > they have convinced him just how loyal and important they are).  One of  theHJ > self paced modules that people are asked to take along with the PA-RISC, andrG > HP-UX sections - is OpenVMS.  In fact, a good history and overview ofp Alphal > is also included.N >    This is good news.  ; It would be even better if two things happened out of this:,  F 1) Everyone who goes through the training says, "Why aren't we sellingI OpenVMS to every customer we can think of?...after all it's more reliable/I that just about anything, it has unique qualities that make it stand headoB and shoulders above unix, it costs the same as unix (Tru64 capitalK cost-wise),  and we can sell it at a price that generates more profit to usr0 at a lower cost to the customer than Billyware."  L 2) Everyone who goes through the training says, "We should be developing EV8 and beyond, not Itanic."   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:09:59 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappers' Message-ID: <3D5DA75E.C65A76EA@fsi.net>h   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i >  > -- > Terry C. Shannon! > Consultant and Publisher, SKHPC,& > Director at Large, Encompass US Inc.8 > Director of Technical Marketing, Science Medicus, Inc. > terryshannon@attbi.com > www.openvms.orgo > www.sciencemedicus.com> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D5C4FFB.F763047B@fsi.net...  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:w > > > B > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > > > news:3D5BFE5A.C2649F66@fsi.net...a > > > > Sue Skonetski wrote:	 > > > > >-M > > > > > Just letting you know that there is a limited mailing taking place.< > It
 > > > is aN > > > > > Fortune magazine with an hp wrapper.  There is allot of verbiage but > I6
 > > > willF > > > > > write in the good stuff.  I am not sure of the distribution.
 > > > > > sue1 > > > > > [snip] > > > >s > > > > Sue, > > > >K$ > > > > Thanx much for posting this. > > > >aN > > > > I can't respond to it today - I'm in too much of a nasty mood, and I'd> > > > > end up saying things I'd regret for a long, long time. > > > >iL > > > > Suffice it to say: they (marketing) haven't heard a word we've said, > > > > IMO. > > > J > > > Sounds like the right things are being said... at least to those who > read > > > Fortune. > >n8 > > Really? Where does it say that HP/Q will continue toF > > develop/produce/support Alpha machines until such time (if any) asJ > > commercially viable, ready-for-prime-time Enterprise-class IPF systems > > begin shipping in quantity?n > E > Shucks, that seems to be implicit by now. Haven't heard much to the H > contrary, at least at user group meetings and customer briefings, etc.  F However, neither do they confirm it (I'm loath to say "commit" to it -? it's synonymous with the "kiss of death" when HP/Q "commits" to,G anything, that means sure and certain death, end-of-life, etc. ... calln it what you will.F  H It takes a big, big person to admit a mistake. Guess they're just not up to it.   > >hI > > > On the bright side, better Fortune than Hustler or the Weekly Worlda > > > News. ;-}o > >,H > > You don't think any members of our target market ever spend any timeF > > with, as they called it in the first "Airplane!" movie,  "Whacking% > > Material"? ...the scandal sheets?, > > ) > > Does the competition advertise there?r >ML > I will not admit to possessing one or more copies of the Weekly World NewsM > (although I'd love to bag this HP nonsense and start writing wild-ass talesYK > for the folks in Lantana, FL) but If I have such copies, I will check. As J > for Hustler, the only ad I ever remember from that scumbag Flynt was the* > scratch-n-sniff thingie back in the 70s.  @ So, how 'bout a scratch-n-sniff thingie that smells like freshlyG manufactured CD-ROMs? (They usually smell of epoxy or whatever they usej to hold the layers together.)    -- S David J. DachteraT dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:35:16 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappere' Message-ID: <3D5DAD4E.EBD019F2@fsi.net>t   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear News Group, > M > I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I am happyLE > when ever I see it in print (with the exception of large consulting H > companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths to forceL > trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS in print here soF > we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make people upset and I  > apologize if that is the case.  6 No apologies necessary, but I understand your concern.  E Please understand: in my case, I rant about not what was said, ratherrF about what was left unsaid that could have done so much to bolster the cause.  D Three cheers for *ANY*thing positive that actually sees the light of day!  H Yet, I cannot help but mourn that such an anemic effort is made, when soE much positive abundance whithers to dust in the blazing sun, is swepte, away in Mariah's wake*, and is lost forever.  4 (Someone call the padded wagon to come get me, huh?)   -- f David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   *Reference:,   "They Call The Wind Mariah"   ! Lyric, as well as I can remember:n   A-way out here they have namer for wind and rain and fire.c The rain is Tess.i The fire's Jo, and   they call the wind Mariah.  E From the Lerner and Loewe musical, "Paint Your Wagon". Legend has it,iD American pop star Mariah Carey is named for the wind from the lyric. Find the complete lyric atQ http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/tamborine/175/thesongs/TheyCallTheWind.htm#Songf lyrics  C (The URL will likely wrap. The tag at the end has embedded spaces.)0   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:43:55 GMTu1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper ' Message-ID: <3D5DAF54.D4E21FB4@fsi.net>    John Vottero wrote:o > B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message& > news:ajivhu$af9$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > > Dear News Group, > >tI > > I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I amI > happyuG > > when ever I see it in print (with the exception of large consultingkJ > > companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths to forceN > > trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS in print here soH > > we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make people upset and I" > > apologize if that is the case. > >h > H > Sue, thanks for all your postings in cov.  Don't get discouraged, some. > people will complain no matter what HP does.  
 Try again.  E If HP came out and said they were going to do a 180-degree turn-aboutcG and go great guns on VMS, started advertising it in the mainstream, got F the price down to where it needs to be to compete, got the ISVs (back)H on board, finished the IA/32 port, got Alpha back on track, finished theB IPF port (if/when IPF and/or its succesor(s) (if any) ever becomes commerically viable) ...  F Man, if that happened, there'd be so much "honey" dripping off of thisG newsgroup, your keyboard would be ruined and your teeth would rot right & out of your head literally over night.  B As it is, however, they continue to make flame-bait of themselves.C Around here, we the pedantic jump on each other for the pettiest ofr  things. Why would we spare HP/Q?   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:55:35 GMTv1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappere' Message-ID: <3D5DB211.A77DCDF1@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > < > "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 > news:926C86F1Bwarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30...n: > > susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in# > > <ajivhu$af9$1@web1.cup.hp.com>:A > >  > > >Dear News Group,U > > >eJ > > >I just want to say something.  Maybe I just love VMS to much and I amC > > >happy when ever I see it in print (with the exception of largeNM > > >consulting companies who disregard any facts given them and use untruths J > > >to force trends that they predict).  I put things I find about VMS inK > > >print here so we can all share it.  I sure do not do it to make peopled/ > > >upset and I apologize if that is the case.i > > >n > > >Warm Regards, > > >Sue > > >d > > M > > I'm quite pleased to see HP dropping some $$ on marketing AlphaServer andTN > > OpenVMS, regardless of whether it says *exactly* what one individual wants > > to hear or not.  Cheers! > M > No way can one produce something that everyone wants to hear. I like WarreneM > Zevon, the Stones, and Pink Floyd. Other people like Frank Sinatra and M&M,c > et al....r  D No way I could let that one get by. Some samples from my album (yes, vinyl!) collection:i  
 Sousa Marchesr Abba Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brassc Blind Faith  Judy Collins John Denver  Enya George Harrisoni Hearty
 Johnny HortonV
 Billy Joel( Bert Kaempfert (future - in acquisition) Carole Kingh Mamas and Papasr Paul Mauriot Paul McCartney Men At Workn The Moody Bluesm Hugo Montenegro  Boy George and The Culture Clubi
 Pink Floyd	 Tommy Roef Santana  Ten Years Afters  - ...and others. Sufficiently eclectic for you?o  8 ..and yes, I have 45s, too! Only about a dozen 78s, tho.   -- i David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:20:59 +0200,9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>l! Subject: Re: Going 7.2-1 -> 7.3-1k' Message-ID: <3D5D428B.8A2B7268@aaa.com>-  3 OK, now just so I'v understod everything correctly. 7 This file ("VMS$REMEDIAL_OLD_FILES.TXT") is a file that 6 exsists on the system *before* the upgrade !? Or is it, some file that is inlcluded in the new kit ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.a   "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:  > G > No reinstalling the RENAME kit will not fix this.  I do not know of a G > new RENAME kit either.  Please log this to your local CSC.  I suspectd< > the workaround will be to edit VMS$REMEDIAL_OLD_FILES.TXT. >l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 13:44:30 -0600- From: frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie)u, Subject: High quality of HP Software support3 Message-ID: <K4JOfKYMWafR@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  H 	What a week it's been.  Reminded me again why I love working on VMS so L much, and why I hate working on Windows products so much.  I've been tasked N with installing an application on a client's site that involves modifications O to our VMS app, installing two Windows apps, and making them all communicate.  aL More specifically, they have to communicate via NFS, and one of the Windows  apps is an NFS client.G 	For the life of me I cannot get the NFS client to work.  I spent some  P time on the phone with Compaq/Hp software support because I didn't have the UCX L NFS configured properly.  It's been quite a few years since I've dealt with J software support, and I'm glad to see that there's been NO degredation of Q quality.  At one point, I was teamed-up-on by three techs, but it was all in a   .O good way and we figured out the problem.  Even though my primary tech got some sI help, none of them came across as incompetent.  They were all cheery and m8 knowledgeable, and never treated me like I was an idiot.F 	I've also spent some time on the phone with the tech support for the M NFS client application.  Sheesh.  Treated me like an idiot, doesn't know why nP his product doesn't work, got sarcastic with a coworker who tried to help him.  J His best advise was (of course) deinstall and reinstall.  Didn't work, of L course, and now he's not answering my calls.  I logged a new call.  The new N lady says she needs to build a Win98 box like I'm running to test on and will  then call me back.E 	Night and day quality levels here.  We've all run into this kind of gI stuff with Windows application vendors, of course.  So I want to mention lO this incident in public, not to complain about them, but to praise Compaq/HP.  -N High quality is visible, but when it's juxtaposed with poor quality in a very L short span of time, it's VERY visible.  Thank you very much, please keep up  the excellent work!r   Sharon: (Back to beating my head bloody against the Windoze Wall.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:15:28 -0400e+ From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.com> 0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support4 Message-ID: <gVd79.8653$H67.47275@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   I agree 100% with what you say. H DEC/Compaq/HP support is excellent. They never tell you to deinstall andI reinstall because that's not the way it works on OpenVMS. They understandeJ their product, ask the right questions and lead you to a quick resolution.  7 Thanks to all the OpenVMS support people at the new HP!9   --   Syltrem4I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)m8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  J "Sharon Guthrie" <frey@encompasserve.org> a crit dans le message de news:( K4JOfKYMWafR@eisner.encompasserve.org...H > What a week it's been.  Reminded me again why I love working on VMS soF > much, and why I hate working on Windows products so much.  I've been taskedA > with installing an application on a client's site that involvesn
 modifications B > to our VMS app, installing two Windows apps, and making them all communicate.E > More specifically, they have to communicate via NFS, and one of the  Windowsl > apps is an NFS client.G > For the life of me I cannot get the NFS client to work.  I spent some,I > time on the phone with Compaq/Hp software support because I didn't haveh the UCX H > NFS configured properly.  It's been quite a few years since I've dealt withK > software support, and I'm glad to see that there's been NO degredation ofpK > quality.  At one point, I was teamed-up-on by three techs, but it was alla in aK > good way and we figured out the problem.  Even though my primary tech got  someJ > help, none of them came across as incompetent.  They were all cheery and: > knowledgeable, and never treated me like I was an idiot.F > I've also spent some time on the phone with the tech support for theJ > NFS client application.  Sheesh.  Treated me like an idiot, doesn't know why K > his product doesn't work, got sarcastic with a coworker who tried to helpu him.K > His best advise was (of course) deinstall and reinstall.  Didn't work, ofuI > course, and now he's not answering my calls.  I logged a new call.  TheP newlJ > lady says she needs to build a Win98 box like I'm running to test on and will > then call me back.E > Night and day quality levels here.  We've all run into this kind ofoJ > stuff with Windows application vendors, of course.  So I want to mentionD > this incident in public, not to complain about them, but to praise
 Compaq/HP.J > High quality is visible, but when it's juxtaposed with poor quality in a veryJ > short span of time, it's VERY visible.  Thank you very much, please keep up > the excellent work!e >r > Sharon< > (Back to beating my head bloody against the Windoze Wall.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:09:28 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support, Message-ID: <3D5D780B.CA95AE7F@videotron.ca>   Syltrem wrote: > ! > I agree 100% with what you say.fJ > DEC/Compaq/HP support is excellent. They never tell you to deinstall andK > reinstall because that's not the way it works on OpenVMS. They understandnL > their product, ask the right questions and lead you to a quick resolution.  L It is pretty sad situation when what used to be taken as standard support isM now seen as excellent support because standards were so significantly loweredd@ by the expectations set by Microsoft's "reboot and/or reinstal".   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:48:50 GMTi From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com>r0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support= Message-ID: <mjf79.198027$s8.3818997@twister.tampabay.rr.com>g  H I agree with this post.   The competence level is still a B/B+ (which isK pretty good). The sense of urgency to solve a problem has improved from a Cl, to a B+/A- since the "new HP" arrived, IMHO.   Mike  : "Sharon Guthrie" <frey@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:K4JOfKYMWafR@eisner.encompasserve.org...lH > What a week it's been.  Reminded me again why I love working on VMS soF > much, and why I hate working on Windows products so much.  I've been taskedA > with installing an application on a client's site that involves 
 modifications B > to our VMS app, installing two Windows apps, and making them all communicate.E > More specifically, they have to communicate via NFS, and one of the  Windows  > apps is an NFS client.G > For the life of me I cannot get the NFS client to work.  I spent somenI > time on the phone with Compaq/Hp software support because I didn't have. the UCXtH > NFS configured properly.  It's been quite a few years since I've dealt withK > software support, and I'm glad to see that there's been NO degredation ofmK > quality.  At one point, I was teamed-up-on by three techs, but it was allC in aK > good way and we figured out the problem.  Even though my primary tech got  someJ > help, none of them came across as incompetent.  They were all cheery and: > knowledgeable, and never treated me like I was an idiot.F > I've also spent some time on the phone with the tech support for theJ > NFS client application.  Sheesh.  Treated me like an idiot, doesn't know why K > his product doesn't work, got sarcastic with a coworker who tried to help  him.K > His best advise was (of course) deinstall and reinstall.  Didn't work, ofsI > course, and now he's not answering my calls.  I logged a new call.  The  newnJ > lady says she needs to build a Win98 box like I'm running to test on and will > then call me back.E > Night and day quality levels here.  We've all run into this kind of J > stuff with Windows application vendors, of course.  So I want to mentionD > this incident in public, not to complain about them, but to praise
 Compaq/HP.J > High quality is visible, but when it's juxtaposed with poor quality in a veryJ > short span of time, it's VERY visible.  Thank you very much, please keep up > the excellent work!p >g > Sharon< > (Back to beating my head bloody against the Windoze Wall.) >r   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 22:34:54 -0700+ From: nelson.deabreu@comsat.com.ve (Nelson)y3 Subject: How can I format a SCSI RZ28M on VAX 4000?s= Message-ID: <a6c2a2f4.0208162134.7eb8528b@posting.google.com>t  I I need to format a SCSI HD RZ28M, but I dont khow what is the procedure.     I have the 5.5 H4 Version    Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2002 02:54:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>I Subject: Re: I need to get a copy of Microsoft VM for xp any suggestions?b- Message-ID: <873cte7hxa.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   0 peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  b > In article <m1oplucfeo01equpf8gialtg1cllr304la@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:X > >On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:33:55 -0700, "Jason Winters" <jwinter@u.washington.edu> wrote:  @ > >>I need to get a copy of Microsoft VM for xp any suggestions?   > >See a doctor?  k > Dr. Watson ?  4 He said Windows, so it will need to be Dr Whatsup...   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:47:44 +0100 (MET)g9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-> Subject: ISDN router with two simultaneous dial-up connections; Message-ID: <01KLDPEJVU9Q970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>M  D For my hobbyist system, I have an ISDN router used for dial-out and I dial-in (via an ISP who provides me with fixed IP addresses) access from yF and to VMS machines on my LAN.  The ISDN connection has two lines and D three numbers (though I can have up to 10 numbers if I want them).  H I did have an ISDN telephone plugged into one of the connections in the A IDSN box and the router into another one, but now have an analog aI telephone plugged into the router.  In both cases, one number caused the  C phone to ring, one was for incoming internet traffic and the third .I wasn't used.  As far as I know, there is nothing which allocates certain  F telephone numbers to certain "ports" (there might be something in the B router configuration, though), though the telephone does not ring , if the internet-connection number is dialed.  H (I'm working on a DSL connection, but want to stick with ISDN for a few  more weeks.)  H When accessing my machines from somewhere else, I have also been able toH dial into the router (from a PC) and then telnet to machines on the LAN.C (Since in this case I have the full ISDN bandwidth to myself, it isrI sometimes more efficient than going over the internet.)  I used the same   number the ISP uses to dial me.   H Question: Even though "ISDN has two lines", am I right in assuming that I I can't have such a dial-up connection from elsewhere and via the ISP at  C the same time---on the same number?  Could I have two on different g numbers?  F What should happen if I dial the internet-access number from a normal G telephone---when there is a live internet connection and when there is b not?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:10:17 +0200.- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>-B Subject: Re: ISDN router with two simultaneous dial-up connections& Message-ID: <3D5D5C27.70A9E1F@Free.fr>  O In France and Switzerland, when you have a three numbers ISDN box, you are able4N to call from outside the three numbers. The two first equipments which pick up6 the line will prevent the third one to be operational.  M So, let's say you have phone #1 on 555-123451 (regular phone) and phone #2 onIK 555-123452 (often your fax, but here you have your router) and your numericwN connection on 555-123453, you will be able to receive calls on line #2 and #3,L giving incoming access to your router via an analog line and your LAN on the
 numeric line.    D.  K (I had the same config in both countries for ages until I switched to ADSL)s   Phillip Helbig wrote:f > E > For my hobbyist system, I have an ISDN router used for dial-out andDJ > dial-in (via an ISP who provides me with fixed IP addresses) access fromG > and to VMS machines on my LAN.  The ISDN connection has two lines andeD > three numbers (though I can have up to 10 numbers if I want them).I > I did have an ISDN telephone plugged into one of the connections in theeB > IDSN box and the router into another one, but now have an analogJ > telephone plugged into the router.  In both cases, one number caused theD > phone to ring, one was for incoming internet traffic and the thirdJ > wasn't used.  As far as I know, there is nothing which allocates certainG > telephone numbers to certain "ports" (there might be something in theiC > router configuration, though), though the telephone does not ringl. > if the internet-connection number is dialed. > I > (I'm working on a DSL connection, but want to stick with ISDN for a fewD > more weeks.) > J > When accessing my machines from somewhere else, I have also been able toJ > dial into the router (from a PC) and then telnet to machines on the LAN.E > (Since in this case I have the full ISDN bandwidth to myself, it ismJ > sometimes more efficient than going over the internet.)  I used the same! > number the ISP uses to dial me.o > I > Question: Even though "ISDN has two lines", am I right in assuming that J > I can't have such a dial-up connection from elsewhere and via the ISP atD > the same time---on the same number?  Could I have two on different
 > numbers? > G > What should happen if I dial the internet-access number from a normallH > telephone---when there is a live internet connection and when there is > not?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:13:10 GMTm. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)< Subject: Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win955 Message-ID: <WNe79.189891$cU1.5962162@news.chello.at>p  d In article <d0141774.0208160936.408bdae4@posting.google.com>, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes:G >Problem occured in a *VERY* important production environment. DowntimeSE >cannot be tolerated and version upgrades of core packages are not ann% >option without a *VERY* good reason.   $ How about the coming IPF migration ?/ You have to get as current as possible on Alphae- before the next migration wave gets over you.p+ In my eyes, this *is* a *VERY* good reason..   Start ASAP.c* Frozen systems are dead systems very soon.   -- m Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:00:21 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n< Subject: Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win95' Message-ID: <3D5DA51E.E4D3F6FE@fsi.net>   D Apologies up front for the tone of this. Guess I'm just "on the rag"
 this week.   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > f > In article <d0141774.0208160936.408bdae4@posting.google.com>, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes:I > >Problem occured in a *VERY* important production environment. Downtime-G > >cannot be tolerated and version upgrades of core packages are not an=' > >option without a *VERY* good reason.l > & > How about the coming IPF migration ?1 > You have to get as current as possible on Alphas/ > before the next migration wave gets over you. - > In my eyes, this *is* a *VERY* good reason.   E ...and that does exactly what to break down the barriers to upgrades?   D Does it magically move a VAX/VMS V5.3-1 application to OpenVMS-Alpha8 V7.3-1 with no source code and no problems with VESTing?  E Does it magically make a recalcitrant vendor (of the app. or OpenVMS,y) your choice) co-operative and beneficent?d  @ Does it magically make downtime an option to allow the upgrades?   I said:-   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > H > Folks are "stuck" at various versions of VMS and layered products for  > a reason.a  ) What part of that is in anyway ambiguous?e  
 > Start ASAP.a, > Frozen systems are dead systems very soon.  D A couple of summers ago, I had to go to one of Mark's sites that was= still using MicroVAX 2000s with touch screens in a productionaG environment. (notice: no clue as to identity, industry or anything elsetC that compromises their position, security or intellectual property!e$ Didn't think I could do it, did ya?)  @ I don't see them moving to OpenVMS Alpha or IPF anytime soon. If> anything, they'd probably go Linux or *BSD (my guess - totally unfounded).n  & Things don't "die" until you let them.  C Go ahead, guys - keep motivating me and others here to give up VMS, E maybe even computing in general. It'd be the biggest favor you can dot for any of us.   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 22:28:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e< Subject: Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win953 Message-ID: <P1pkC3Q+o3Ox@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  f In article <WNe79.189891$cU1.5962162@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:f > In article <d0141774.0208160936.408bdae4@posting.google.com>, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes:H >>Problem occured in a *VERY* important production environment. DowntimeF >>cannot be tolerated and version upgrades of core packages are not an& >>option without a *VERY* good reason. > & > How about the coming IPF migration ?1 > You have to get as current as possible on Alphaf/ > before the next migration wave gets over you.u  H Let me know when the migration wave is going to overcome my MicroVAX II.D It is in "production", doing as well as ever.  There is no reason to upgrade it.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:03:05 +0000 (UTC) % From: John Forkosh <john@invalid.com>n- Subject: Re: keypad emulation in xterm windowo, Message-ID: <ajjpa9$jlm$1@reader2.panix.com>  : Brian Tillman <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:+ : >I'm telnetting to a VS from a linux box. + : >When I telnet directly from a shell, theo, : >keypad emulation works real well -- I can) : >edit using edt with very few problems.y. : >     But if I startx, open an xterm window,. : >and telnet from there, the keypad emulation : >fails completely.  M : Why not open a DECterm window on your linux screen?  You seem to be runninga0 : an X server.  So, use rsh or rexec to execute: :n2 : $ set display/create/transport=tcpip/node=yourip : $ create/terminal/detach  < Okay, this sounds like fun and I'll definitely play with it.< 99.95% of my vms experience is with terminals, so I'm pretty9 clueless about what your dcl is saying above.  But I kind < of get an inkling, and can hopefully get it to do something.4 (Hmmm...I think I turned off a sysgen switch to boot8 graphically, or something.  I don't have my hands on the> machine to check it right now.  Guess I'll turn that back on.)  & : At any rate, my .Xdefaults contains: <<snipped .Xdefaults info>>t  < Thanks, Brian.  This will certainly provide all the baseline8 functionality I actually need to get work done.  But the7 DECterm window will definitely be cuter if I can get ite working. -- h> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Aug 2002 22:21:45 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>- Subject: Re: keypad emulation in xterm window , Message-ID: <ajjttp22q8v@enews1.newsguy.com>  & John Forkosh <john@invalid.com> wrote:* > I'm telnetting to a VS from a linux box.* > When I telnet directly from a shell, the+ > keypad emulation works real well -- I cane( > edit using edt with very few problems.- >      But if I startx, open an xterm window,a- > and telnet from there, the keypad emulatione( > fails completely.  I guess I need some/ > appropriate KP_xxx definitions in .Xdefaults, , > but I don't know which ones.  Anybody have) > a list of them I can cut-and-paste intoa) > my .Xdefaults?  (Or is there maybe some  > other problem?)  Thanks.  6 Try the following shell script to start up your xterm:( ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/vms/vt100.shE Someone posted it here a few years ago, and it works like a charm forWC accessing OpenVMS, RT-11, RSTS/E, RSX-11M/M+, TOPS-10, and TOPS-20  I systems!  The only downside is, you don't have all the function keys, butt4 the important thing is the keybad works as expected!   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:31:30 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>I Subject: Re: Licenses (was Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha]...))o4 Message-ID: <1020816181810.415M-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Brian Tillman wrote:r  G > >Well, I've found prices, but here's a little example of why everyone-I > >in the world isn't/hasn't jumped on the VMS bandwagon. I have a clientMG > >with a small Alpha (DEC 2000/300) who has kept his hardware/softwaretE > >agreement current. He wants to add 2 interactive users, 3 Advancedr- > >Server users, and TCP/IP TELNET & FTP now.  > ...snip...1 > >  QL-0M2AE-AA  TCP/IP Client license. $1750.00a > K > Chances are, this last license is unnecessary, since TCP/IP licenses havenG > been bundled with most Alphas for some time now.  He should check hisl > shipping memo.  @ The DEC 2000/300 is old enough that it might not include TCP/IP.> However, our DEC 3000 Model 300, delivered at the beginning of@ November, 1993, did come with an NAS-250 license, which included UCX (TCPIP).  > The OP should also check SHOW LICENSE and LICENSE LIST/FULL to: see if there are any loaded or disabled UCX or NET-APP-SUP> licenses.  (They might have been added and then disabled since? they weren't being used, but still might be present and valid.)h  A Later systems have EIS (Enterprise Integration Services) bundles, @ but I think they were a bunch of separate PAKs for each product,; rather than a bundled PAK like NAS.  I think TCPIP Services<? (new name for UCX) still uses UCX PAKs, but maybe it uses TCPIPr now instead?  : Also, the two-user license seems expensive, but compare it- to two Windows XP Pro workstation licenses...r   --   John Santosc Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:44:26 GMTV1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>mI Subject: Re: Licenses (was Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha]...))a' Message-ID: <3D5DA166.E7843318@fsi.net>S   DL Phillips wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D5B018D.FDD998AC@fsi.net>... > > "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > > >C2 > > > On 14 Aug 2002 at 10:19, Alan Frisbie wrote:H > > > > The same for me!   If I do not see a price posted, I assume thatK > > > > the seller is like a used car dealer, adjusting the price upward to-J > > > > what he thinks he can get away with at the moment.   I will not do+ > > > > business with those kind of people.o > > > >p > > > > Do you hear that, HP?n > > >n > > > It's not HP, it's SRI. > >wK > > Doesn't matter - have you TRIED getting a price for OpenVMS or anythingt- > > OpenVMS related off their website lately?  > >  > > Good luck! > F > Well, I've found prices, but here's a little example of why everyoneH > in the world isn't/hasn't jumped on the VMS bandwagon. I have a clientF > with a small Alpha (DEC 2000/300) who has kept his hardware/softwareD > agreement current. He wants to add 2 interactive users, 3 AdvancedH > Server users, and TCP/IP TELNET & FTP now. Here are the US prices from > CPQ's web site for that: > 0 >   QL-MT3AA-3C  2 user VMS license      $674.00< >   QM-5SUAA-1B  Adv.Server lice.(each)  $149.00 (x3 = $447)0 >   QL-0M2AE-AA  TCP/IP Client license. $1750.00  > Did you happen to save any o fthr URL's along the way? FindingG *ANY*thing on the Q's website was always a minor miracle. It would have % been nice to document the difficulty.e   -- V David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:18:07 GMT3( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>  Subject: Re: looking for a DELQA: Message-ID: <Pfj79.95880$Yd.4388721@twister.austin.rr.com>  G I seem to remember still having one floating around work.  I would have K emailed you but it's not obvious (to me anyway) which part, if any, of thatn4 email is legit.  I'll check Monday and let you know.  < (I'm not again spam-stoppers, just one's I can't figure out)   -- c" Jay E. Morris morrisj@epsilon3.com- Epsilon 3 Productions - Web sites and hosting8   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:43:08 -0700)# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>1 Subject: MntVerifyTimeout ?m9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBNFJAA.tom@kednos.com>u  @ After rebooting a cluster member its drives as seen by the other? cluster members upon doing a SHO DEV D is MntVerifyTimeout, andsD of course accessing them results in "volume is not software enabled"E The node I rebooted was a VAX with 7.1, the others are various alphas     What is the best way to fix this ---9& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002C   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:31:39 -0700-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>, Subject: RE: MntVerifyTimeout ?g9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKECBFJAA.tom@kednos.com>-  F Never mind, I had forgotten about the /CLUSTER qualifier.  Seems like C there should be a way to make this automatic when rebooting a node.s   >-----Original Message----- ) >From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com] & >Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:43 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: MntVerifyTimeout ? >e >oA >After rebooting a cluster member its drives as seen by the otherb@ >cluster members upon doing a SHO DEV D is MntVerifyTimeout, andE >of course accessing them results in "volume is not software enabled"eF >The node I rebooted was a VAX with 7.1, the others are various alphas >e! >What is the best way to fix thiso >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).g@ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >r >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.i; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).r@ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >  ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:20:42 GMTb- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>c Subject: Re: MntVerifyTimeout ?.* Message-ID: <3D5D9225.7040506@qsl.network>   Tom Linden wrote:nH > Never mind, I had forgotten about the /CLUSTER qualifier.  Seems like E > there should be a way to make this automatic when rebooting a node.   0 How about putting the commands in SYSHUTDWN.COM?   >>B >>After rebooting a cluster member its drives as seen by the otherA >>cluster members upon doing a SHO DEV D is MntVerifyTimeout, andoF >>of course accessing them results in "volume is not software enabled"G >>The node I rebooted was a VAX with 7.1, the others are various alphasn >>" >>What is the best way to fix this  B In the SYSHUTDWN.COM file for the node that is being shutdown put > something like the following, assuming the node name is VAXNOD   $mcr sysman/environment=clustercG $do if f$edit(f$getsyi("NODENAME"),"UPCASE,TRIM") .nes. "VAXNOD" THEN -p    dismount vaxnode$disk1:G $do if f$edit(f$getsyi("NODENAME"),"UPCASE,TRIM") .nes. "VAXNOD" THEN -3    dismount vaxnode$disk2:  B I use SYSMAN instead of /cluster so that the dismount will not be F aborted if the node being shutdown has a page file or other installed G image that prevents a local dismount at the time that SYSHUTDWN is run.a   -Johna wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:57:47 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Comes to Itanium - Houston , Message-ID: <3D5D5937.ED9C171A@videotron.ca>   Art Beane wrote:E > yesterday was pretty impressive. The presenters definitely gave theaH > impression that HP wants new OpenVMS customers and that OpenVMS is THE- > secure, high availability solution from HP.u  E The Tandem customers might be given the very same impression at theiraI presentations, the HP-UX folks might be given the very same impression atnI their presentations, and the Wintel folks might be told that Windows willnJ eventually be THE secure, high availability solution from HP and that theyS should start building Windows bases systems now and get those improvements "later".s  J HP is stuck with enterprise systems from 3 companies (Digital, Tandem, HP)K that used to compete. There is a significant amount of overlap.  HP alreadyoJ killed Tru64 due to overlap. How HP deals with the overlap between VMS andK Tandem is unknown now and in the long term. How HP deals with "Windows willoJ eviscerate" is also unknown. For all we know, Carly intends to replace the$ Tandems at NASDAQ with wintel boxes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:41:55 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>I/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Comes to Itanium - Houston , Message-ID: <75g79.59931$me6.7903@sccrnsc01>   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher, SKHPCh$ Director at Large, Encompass US Inc.6 Director of Technical Marketing, Science Medicus, Inc. terryshannon@attbi.com www.openvms.org  www.sciencemedicus.com: "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D5D5937.ED9C171A@videotron.ca... > Art Beane wrote:G > > yesterday was pretty impressive. The presenters definitely gave theaJ > > impression that HP wants new OpenVMS customers and that OpenVMS is THE/ > > secure, high availability solution from HP.. >2G > The Tandem customers might be given the very same impression at theirgK > presentations, the HP-UX folks might be given the very same impression atRK > their presentations, and the Wintel folks might be told that Windows williL > eventually be THE secure, high availability solution from HP and that theyL > should start building Windows bases systems now and get those improvements "later". >eL > HP is stuck with enterprise systems from 3 companies (Digital, Tandem, HP)E > that used to compete. There is a significant amount of overlap.  HPs already-L > killed Tru64 due to overlap. How HP deals with the overlap between VMS andH > Tandem is unknown now and in the long term. How HP deals with "Windows willL > eviscerate" is also unknown. For all we know, Carly intends to replace the& > Tandems at NASDAQ with wintel boxes.  H Not bloody likely, JF! Actually, the ITUG crew is working pretty closelyJ with the Cupertino crowd on the IPF migration. That's all I can really say on that topic, though...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:53:02 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Comes to Itanium - HoustonhA Message-ID: <O7h79.26526$m91.1643616@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message& news:75g79.59931$me6.7903@sccrnsc01...   ...   < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D5D5937.ED9C171A@videotron.ca...   ...l  1 > > For all we know, Carly intends to replace the ( > > Tandems at NASDAQ with wintel boxes. >n > Not bloody likely, JF!  B Really?  I'd say that any management brain-trust both sufficientlyL incompetent and sufficiently corrupt to ignore their unequivocal commitmentsH to their customers and trade in a thoroughbred like Alpha for a nag likeL Itanic is without question capable of such an act.  So whether they'll do itI is in no way a techical question subject to rational analysis, but simplydD one of what they may perceive to be convenient at any point in time.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:33:22 GMTn% From: "Yong Liu" <fdu9774@rogers.com>r Subject: OpenVMS tarG Message-ID: <Cce79.28775$8aG1.493@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>'   Hi,   B Is there an UNIX tar equivalent in OpenVMS? Or something like zip?  H A related issue, how can you delete a directory tree (with files and sub directories inside) ?r   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:38:07 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o Subject: Re: OpenVMS tar' Message-ID: <3D5D70BF.5F4B58E9@aaa.com>l  5 Check "http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html".0 and look for VMSTAR, DELTREE, ZIP and UNZIP. And4 the most obviouse "equivalent" to tar (but better of4 course) is BACKUP, se HELP BACKUP on any VMS system.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.c   Yong Liu wrote:t >  > Hi,/ > D > Is there an UNIX tar equivalent in OpenVMS? Or something like zip? > J > A related issue, how can you delete a directory tree (with files and sub > directories inside) ?e >  > Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:36:02 -0400W; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> H Subject: Re: Oracle 9i rel 2 restricted to EV56 or later chips - why ???$ Message-ID: <3d5d623d$1@news.si.com>  > >Oracle is de-committing support because of performance on the >pre-EV56 chips.  E Dammit!  If I want to run a program on older hardware, as long as thetI program doesn't require features that don't exist on that older system, I I should be able to.  Only _I_ can decide if my business needs the speed orIH not.  I shouldn't have software vendors telling me that I can't run more slowly if I want to. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comv= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent-< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 15:50:00 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oH Subject: Re: Oracle 9i rel 2 restricted to EV56 or later chips - why ???3 Message-ID: <530Ouhr6x$M9@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  b In article <3d5d623d$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:? >>Oracle is de-committing support because of performance on then >>pre-EV56 chips.l > G > Dammit!  If I want to run a program on older hardware, as long as theuK > program doesn't require features that don't exist on that older system, I/K > should be able to.  Only _I_ can decide if my business needs the speed orsJ > not.  I shouldn't have software vendors telling me that I can't run more > slowly if I want to.   	Yeah, I hear you.  E 	But they don't care in some senses.  Maybe a segment of users spendscF 	tons of money and moves away from a vendor.  Most customers may move C 	off a platform but they stay with the vendor (because again, many  D 	don't have that kind of money) and the vendor gets services in the F 	move so they are doubley happy.  That and selling you a whole new setE 	of licenses to go with the platform migration to have another reasoniC 	for the vendor to *want* you to migrate off platforms.  They make l' 	money in several different directions.o  -                                Platform Churnh  B 	It is ugly for the end user but a beautiful thing for the vendor.   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2002 03:20:51 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>H Subject: Re: Oracle 9i rel 2 restricted to EV56 or later chips - why ???- Message-ID: <87lm76625o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>u  1 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:   @ > The restriction is Alpha based not VMS based.  This is cut and" > pasted from an email I received.  x? > Oracle is de-committing support because of performance on thel; > pre-EV56 chips.  Pre-EV56 chips did not have byte or wordtF > instructions in hardware, they were emulated (by reading 32 bits andE > shifting or masking to get 8 or 16 bits) in firmware.  EV56 was the?D > first generation of Alpha to put in hardware these needed byte and > word instructions.  E And unless you are doing byte/word access to a PCI bus, the byte/wordo? instructions are *SLOWER* that full word loads and mask/shifts.e  nF > This restriction imposed by Oracle affects not only OpenVMS but also@ > Tru64.  This is not an OpenVMS issue but an Alpha issue.  This3 > affects Alpha chips that run slower than 400 MHz.   	B > The new versions of Oracle will be optimized to run on the newer> > versions of the Alpha processor.  For additional information> > (including support information) please see the following URL> > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/monthQs.html.   -- ,< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.'@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 18:19:00 -0700, From: johnellicottington@lycos.co.uk (Johno)3 Subject: Procedure to enlarge system name required. = Message-ID: <6141fd50.0208161719.1a33a910@posting.google.com>o   Hi  D Could someone show me how write a dcl routine that will read the vms@ system name and then output it to the screen enlarged, say 6 x 6D characters in size. What I would also like is if the system name is,A say, VMSSYS then the first enlarged letter is made up of V's, the  second of M's and so on.    Thanks in advance for any advice   Johnof   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:32:43 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>w7 Subject: Re: Procedure to enlarge system name required.h, Message-ID: <3D5DC3D2.3466FBAD@videotron.ca>   Johno wrote: >  > Hi > F > Could someone show me how write a dcl routine that will read the vmsB > system name and then output it to the screen enlarged, say 6 x 6F > characters in size. What I would also like is if the system name is,C > say, VMSSYS then the first enlarged letter is made up of V's, theX > second of M's and so on.   $myname = "VMSSYS" $ESCAPE[0,8] = 27 $ $write sys$output escape,"#3",myname$ $write sys$output escape,"#4",myname  B ESCAPE #3 writes the top half of a double width double height lineE ESCAPE #4 writes the bottom half of double width, double height line.M  8 ESCAPE #5 will write a double width, single height line.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2002 03:13:28 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Reading a backup set from a ISO-9660 disk? - Message-ID: <87ptwi62hz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - "Steinar Botten" <sbo@satcom.nera.no> writes:p  B > Is it possible to make BACKUP read a backup set directly from anC > ISO-9660 CD, or won't this work because of the special attributesw > that BACKUP expects?  D The special sauce backup wants is FIXED records of the correct size.; IE, as special as two short planks, and slightly thicker :)R  D > In other words, must backup sets be placed on a ODS2 formatted CD?   It certainly SHOULD work.e   -- f< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:29:38 -0700o0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>K Subject: Re: Recompile applications when migrating from OpenVMS 7.1 to 7.3?1, Message-ID: <3D5CFE42.288A9788@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Craig A. Berry wrote:  > . > In article <3D5BDEE7.613E337A@Mvb.Saic.Com>,4 >  Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote: > . > > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > : > > > If you wanted to recompile with /ARCHITECTURE=EV6 orQ > > > /ARCHITECTURE=HOST you might get more performance out of it, at the expenseMH > > > of having an image you couldn't count on taking back to your 4100. > H > > Why do people keep saying this?  An image built on any Alpha runningJ > > OpenVMS will run on any other alpha running the same or higher versionG > > of OpenVMS, even if built with architecture-specific optimizations.i > J > Unless the image is a device driver?  I'm asking because there have beenD > a number of reports of people unable to get an Oxygen VX1 or KZPEAE > working in an EV5 system, i.e., completely non-functional (over and G > above being unsupported) and the explanation has always been that the   > drivers are optimized for EV6.  E One normally doesn't consider drivers when talking about instructionsTB being trapped and emulated but I take your point.  Next time, I'll specify process-space images.A  E Besides, wasn't it an issue with the devices themselves that required < the EV6 support, not just some decision to optimize drivers?  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:02:07 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>aM Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION - DECCXX 6.5 UNREACHABLE CODE WARNINGSc* Message-ID: <3D5D2B58.3040902@qsl.network>   Stewart Van Kirk wrote:oE > The DECCXX 6.5-004 compiler on OpenVMS 7.3 is confusing me with its0D > warning messages about unreachable code.  I do not know whether to > take them seriously or not.o   Take them seriously.  A > The following code illustrates that compiled one way, I get twooB > unreachable code warnings and if I slightly modify the code [notH > changing the operational meaning] in three (probably more) other ways,H > I do not get the warnings.  In fact, two of the three "other ways" areE > functionally-isomorphic to the code that produces the warnings.  IsAH > there a substantive problem here, or is the compiler just a little too > smart?   <snip>
 > #ifdef GOOD $ >       x = sizeof (T) <= 1 ? 0 : 1;   > #else  >       if (sizeof(T) <= 1)o	 > 	x = 0;c >       else	 > 	x = 1;o  E sizeof() is evaluated at compile time.  Therefore the code path that t follows will never change.  H So the compiler knows that it does not need to generate code for one of G the conditions, hence the informational messages that some of the code g is not needed.  D In the #ifdef GOOD case, no diagnostic is generated because it is a  single expression.  B If you use #if preprocessor directives for compile time evaluated H expressions, then the compiler knows that you are doing this on purpose  and not accidentally.c   -JohnV wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlym   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 07:47:42 +1000e@ From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> Subject: tcpware smtpb< Message-ID: <3d5d7300$0$32489$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   Hi  : Is there a configuration switch that I can turn on to stop1 tcpwares smtp from keeping a copy of sent e-mailsb in a spool directory?i  6 Or do I need to write something to clean it up myself?       antony   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:38:00 -0400 6 From: Dan Barowy <dbarowy@n-o-s-p-a-m__acad.umass.edu>) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?S: Message-ID: <3D5D5498.2030306@n-o-s-p-a-m__acad.umass.edu>   John Forkosh wrote:s [...]f > = > Note: the above just scratches the surface of what you needs; > to learn and to do.  VMS is indeed nice, and indeed worth : > the effort, but make no mistake that you'd better really" > want to spend the necesary time.  H Thanks!  This is a good start!  I make sure to bug you folks again when E I have more questions (preferable IMHO to banging head on wall/desk).    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:48:41 -0500 2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?s/ Message-ID: <ulr0aaf3o8jf83@corp.supernews.com>t   Dan,  K Welcome to the world of Vaxen and OpenVMS! I hope you have a blast learningi# about your new computer and its OS. K The first thing for you to read is the OpenVMS FAQ; HP (or HPAQ as a lot of J folks refer to the new company) has a FAQ that is simply invaluable; it isE at: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#UTIL1 It is-G available in several formats and can be downloaded to your computer for K reference. It covers a MULTITUDE of topics, many of which you are likely towK run in to while learning about OpenVMS. It is not a hardware reference, buttG neither is this newsgroup :). See comp.os.dec for hardware information.   H You can sometimes find the monitor cable on eBay. It is a "3W3 to 3-BNC"K (description, not part number) cable and will sell for $15-$30. That is the G good news; the bad news is that most PC monitors will NOT work with thefI Vaxstation. I use a Viewsonic 17, an older model high-end monitor. It haseK the BNC connectors as well as the PC-style connector and will sync with thecE VaxStation (and Alphas too). It is a good bit less expensive to use aiI terminal with the computer, unless you already have a compatible monitor.eJ You can frequently find terminals on eBay in the $20-$40 range. If you buyK one, be sure it is sold WITH the keyboard - what some sellers think you canwI do with a terminal (with no keyboard) escapes me, but they are frequently F sold that way. I guess they sell the keyboard separately, to make more money.  I To connect to the Internet or other computers, I suggest a AUI to 10BaseTtJ transceiver. I purchased some on eBay for $5-$10 each. These plug onto theK large Ethernet connector on the 4000-60 and provide you with a RJ45 twisted K pair connection, which can be used with any commonly available hub, switch,tK router, etc. I'm not giving an endorsement here, but you can see an example@H of what I am talking about at Buy.com. They have the Startech LL10BT for $14.10, seetL http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10297233&hdwt=31302&loc=101 if you are interested.a  L I suggest you locate one of the compatible (external, with a compatible SCSIG cable) CDRoms  from the FAQ, a VT420 terminal w/keyboard, and a MMJ-MMJ / cable to connect the VaxStation to the monitor.t  K Definitely join the user's group (it is free), and get the 2 (yes, TWO - itnG is not obvious on the web site) license types you will need - Operating L system AND Layered Products. Layered products are what DEC (then Compaq, now/ HP) called application programs. Montgar is at:mI http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ They have links to a lot of other sitesaK that may be of interest, as well as the Hobbyist program material. You willoH have to  wait until September to get the new OpenVMS hobbyist CDRom fromL them; they are sold out of the VMS kits right now; perhaps someone will loan% you one if you are ready before then.    Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT nete  C "Dan Barowy" <dbarowy@n-o-s-p-a-m__acad.umass.edu> wrote in messagey2 news:3D5D1036.60802@n-o-s-p-a-m__acad.umass.edu...H > Hi, a VAXstation 4000/60 just landed in my hands, and I'd like to playH > with it, but I know virtually nothing about VMS.  I am a bit of a *NIXI > weenie (not trying to start a flame war), but I'm intrigued by OpenVMS.s+ >   Problem is I don't know where to start.  >oH > With the 4000/60 came an odd monitor cable (D style mini BNC to 3BNC),E > and I have yet to get my hands on an adaptor or BNC monitor.  Is it7D > possible to access this machine in via serial/terminal connection? >@D > When powered on, everything seems to spin up and it sounds OK, but > beyond that I have no idea..., >rE > I also do not have a keyboard or mouse.  Seems like I'm able to getn( > those on eBay, though, if I need them. >yF > Anyway, if any of you have any helpful pointers/links/suggestions, IC > would be much appreciative.  Oh... also, I think I qualify for ansH > academic license of OpenVMS, but it doesn't appear as if my UniversityE > (UMass Amherst) is enrolled in this program.  I'm assuming there is G > already some kind of software on this machine, but I may be mistaken.  >wD > Which reminds me... there is only BNC ethernet on this machine; noF > floppy, CD, or any other kind of removable media peripheral on here.I > Assuming that I *do* need an OS, how would I go about getting it on theDF > machine?  On *NIX, you can usually do a net install, but you have to > start with a floppy at least.  >O9 > Sorry, many questions!  Thanks for tolerating a newbie!y >d > Dan  >e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2002 03:07:36 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?i- Message-ID: <87u1lu62rr.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  8 Dan Barowy <dbarowy@n-o-s-p-a-m__acad.umass.edu> writes:  9 ( Put exactly where in Mass you are for posts like this.)n  C > Hi, a VAXstation 4000/60 just landed in my hands, and I'd like tovF > play with it, but I know virtually nothing about VMS.  I am a bit ofD > a *NIX weenie (not trying to start a flame war), but I'm intrigued5 > by OpenVMS. Problem is I don't know where to start.t  gA > With the 4000/60 came an odd monitor cable (D style mini BNC torE > 3BNC), and I have yet to get my hands on an adaptor or BNC monitor.-> > Is it possible to access this machine in via serial/terminal
 > connection?n  A Yes. In the lower right corner, you will see a door with a switch C labeled S3. Flick that, and plug your terminal to the printer port.5E Getting a monitor LK401 and fat-rat should not be too hard. Not as iff Mass is a Vax free zone :)  .D > When powered on, everything seems to spin up and it sounds OK, but > beyond that I have no idea...t  sE > I also do not have a keyboard or mouse.  Seems like I'm able to get_( > those on eBay, though, if I need them.  IF > Anyway, if any of you have any helpful pointers/links/suggestions, IC > would be much appreciative.  Oh... also, I think I qualify for ant= > academic license of OpenVMS, but it doesn't appear as if my > > University (UMass Amherst) is enrolled in this program.  I'mF > assuming there is already some kind of software on this machine, but > I may be mistaken.  E You can joint DECUS and get a Hobbiest licence, and also get Multinet-/ and a few others. Prod and nag your uni anyway!6   D > Which reminds me... there is only BNC ethernet on this machine; no@ > floppy, CD, or any other kind of removable media peripheral onE > here. Assuming that I *do* need an OS, how would I go about gettingcD > it on the machine?  On *NIX, you can usually do a net install, but+ > you have to start with a floppy at least.r  A You need a CD to install. The `right' CD for some value of right. E 512byte sectors and no evil habits. (lots are) See the SCSI connector  on the back?  9 > Sorry, many questions!  Thanks for tolerating a newbie!n   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:14:38 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>- Subject: Re: V7.3-1 and TIMA for FC Minimerger8 Message-ID: <aojqlu42ka7loptguiii9r2hqup0nvag02@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:33:21 GMT, brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Robf Brooks) wrote:    H >I never tire of discussing anything VMS-related, especially HSG80-basedF >mini-merge.  It makes for great dinner table discussion with my wife,E >who while quite intelligent in her own right, wouldn't know an HSG80o >from a star coupler . . . :-) >   ' Just tell her to look for a power cord.   ) Not speaking for anyone, certainly not HPc- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2002 02:47:15 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: V7.3-1 and TIMA for FC MinimergeS- Message-ID: <877kiq7ia4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  1 brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:e  E > Norm is correct; qualifying and supporting Fibre Channel mini-mergeaA > on V7.2-2 is not something we have the resources to do.  Sorry.y  a= > I never tire of discussing anything VMS-related, especially E > HSG80-based mini-merge.  It makes for great dinner table discussioneF > with my wife, who while quite intelligent in her own right, wouldn't- > know an HSG80 from a star coupler . . . :-)   B Wel,, how about sparing your wife, and giving us the details of it/ all. :) And how it differs from HSCs, Js, Ds...o  7 Why does the damm thing need so much code added to VMS?e   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:59:38 -0700 " From: Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>- Subject: Re: V7.3-1 and TIMA for FC Minimerge , Message-ID: <3D5DD83A.918F624D@telocity.com>  0 What year anniversary do you give Fibre Channel?       Larry Kilgallen wrote:  a > In article <CchPmYrCwwkF@cuebid.zko.dec.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:6 >gK > > I never tire of discussing anything VMS-related, especially HSG80-basedPI > > mini-merge.  It makes for great dinner table discussion with my wife,9 >3  > Oh Rob, you romantic devil :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:08:44 -0400t( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: VMS in M$ ade, Message-ID: <3D5D319C.4010007@tsoft-inc.com>   John Vottero wrote:S    J > It's running in every trade rag I get.  You do read the trade rags don't	 > you? :)n    P No, I don't read the trade rags.  Could someone be a bit more specific?  What's  being said about VMS?0   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:42:50 -0400a+ From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.com>C Subject: Re: VMS in M$ ad 4 Message-ID: <VNa79.8635$H67.46895@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   I'd like to see that too!w   thankx   --   SyltremnI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)i8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  L "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> a crit dans le message de news:" mB679.43135$983.57998@rwcrnsc53... >C >[7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messages% > news:3D5CE0E9.2AAD3552@127.0.0.1...# > > John Santos wrote: > > >lC > > > Sorry to be so vague about this, but a friend of mine spottedeC > > > this the other day, and I forgot all about it until just now.s > > F > > I've mentioned this in the newsgroup before, it is the 1 degree of > > separation ad. > >p> > > It was run in Computing and Computer Weekly recently. [UK] > >mK > > If anyone is desperately interested, I'll email the jpegs I've scanned,r > > drop me a note.n > >o > > --C > > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > > nclews at csc dot com  >s8 > Yeah, please send the jpegs to me at my usual address. >t	 > Thanks!p >a	 > terry sk >w >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:19:34 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>w Subject: Re: VMS in M$ adl/ Message-ID: <ulqk27jukbpncb@news.supernews.com>L  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3D5D319C.4010007@tsoft-inc.com... > John Vottero wrote:  >K >mL > > It's running in every trade rag I get.  You do read the trade rags don't > > you? :)l >o > I > No, I don't read the trade rags.  Could someone be a bit more specific?, What's > being said about VMS?- >-  J Actually, nothing is being said about VMS.  VMS and ACMS are in a diagram. The key text of the ad is:  I "Dollar Rent A Car used BizTalk Server 2002 to create a new XML-based EDI K interface in weeks rather than months, and the solution is turn reduced the K development time required for connecting to each new business partner by 75@F percent.  The BizTalk Server implementation also helped the company to: significantly reduce transaction costs with its partners."  # The diagram is something like this:t  + Partner<-->SOAP/Windows 2000<-->ACMS<-->VMSM   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 16:03:48 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)m Subject: Re: VMS in M$ adi= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0208161503.5d028bdd@posting.google.com>   B The customer quoted in this Microsoft add is Dollar Rent a car and1 there is a diagram that uses VMS like a backbone.i  A I thought I had posted this about a month or so ago.  If I am not F mistaken this should be the following.  This was an internal message I, had sent out, but the information is public.    B As a follow-on to last weeks OpenVMS Pearl which referred to a VMSE mention in Information Week (June 3, 2002 issue) in regards to Dollarr# Rent-a-Car's computing environment.T  C There was a pull out advertising section with a small diagram of  apE lap top connected to a SOAP Processor at Dollar using Window 2000 andv* then connected to a VMS server using ACMS.  > Solution:  Windows 2000 Server, Microsoft Internet InformationE Services 5.o, SQL Server 2000, BizTalk Server 200, Visual Studio.NET,M! Microsoft Mobile Internet Toolkitw   Then a paragraph  ? How Dollar Rent A Car used .NET connected software to drive newR@ business partnerships.  Dollar Rent A Car is a world-leading carF rental agency, with a fleet of 75,000 cars and more than 250 locations? across 26 countries.  They saw that integrating their VMS-basedtF reservation system directly with partners would drive sales and reduceD the cost of transactions.  Using .NET connected software and BizTalk> Server, they were able to develop an XML-based trading partnerE integration solution in weeks rather than months - a 75% reduction inr: development time.  The same solution also helped Dollar toC significantly reduce transaction costs with its partners.  To get au6 resource and evaluation kit for this case study, go to> www.microsoft.come/business/casestudies/bec/dollarrentacar.asp            f "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<CdV69.31856$983.46763@rwcrnsc53>.../ > "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messagee0 > news:1020815172348.415A-100000@Ives.egh.com...A > > Sorry to be so vague about this, but a friend of mine spottedgA > > this the other day, and I forgot all about it until just now.e > >sB > > I don't have the magazine at work, so I'm going from memory... > >i2 > > I think everyone will be amused (or disgusted) > >.= > > There's a 2-page ad for M$ in 2nd most recent PC Magazinel= > > (August, I think.)  Each page has a picture of a bunch of : > > people standing in front of a bunch of computers.  The= > > people are obviously at odds with each other (edging away-< > > from the other picture and looking askance at the people > > in the other picture.) > >.< > > There's a big headline about reconciling the differences; > > between your windows weenies and your unix weenies (notc > > their terminology.)I > >t: > > Down amidst the text portion of the ad, there is a box: > > with a line diagram of how the systems are supposed to9 > > talk to each other.  The "Unix" box in the diagram is- > > labeled "VMS".  ;-)  > L > Dump the MS and the Unix and go with VMS? Seems to be a pretty darned good > reconciliation to me!l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2002 12:14:51 -0700/ From: chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers)  Subject: Re: VS3100 questionsh= Message-ID: <754a27c1.0208161114.4c88cc00@posting.google.com>   i issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) wrote in message news:<d0141774.0208151028.37aff211@posting.google.com>...h >  > $ sho lic/charge, > VMS/LMF Charge Information for node xxxxxx2 > This is a VAXserver 3100, hardware model type 60 > 6 > Wait a minute... VAXserver??? What's that all about? > What is this thing?-  F If you boot a VAXstation 3100 without a keyboard, VMS identifies it as a VAXserver 3100.>      cB > SHOW CONFIG doesn't exist at the console and SHOW DEV just lists	 > drives.sH > Surely there must be a SHOW DEV/FULL xxx on VMS that will tell me what > kind of board it is? >  > BTW, the CPU is KA42-A V1.3   = For this model machine, enter "T 50" at the console.  This iss& essentially the same as "SHOW CONFIG".   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:47:14 -0400a; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r Subject: Re: VS3100 questionsd" Message-ID: <3d5d64dc@news.si.com>   >$ sho lic/chargeo+ >VMS/LMF Charge Information for node xxxxxxu1 >This is a VAXserver 3100, hardware model type 60a >a5 >Wait a minute... VAXserver??? What's that all about?o >What is this thing?  G It would appear to be a VAXstation whose console is a VT-style terminal G attached to the serial port.  This makes it a VAXserver and changes the5J license requirements.  Plug a keyboard into the keyboard port to make it a VAXstation again.a --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comc= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:19:58 GMTl5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: VWS question 3 Message-ID: <2va79.32$mz2.1220639@news.cpqcorp.net>t  & Sorry I couldn't give you better news.  K Andrew Balaam wrote in message <20020815.20271000.2715694214@imagnu.geo>...,< Not the answer I really wanted to here (read), such is life!   Thanks for the reply.e  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  F On 15/08/02, 17:38:54, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>! wrote regarding Re: VWS question:t      > Andrew Balaam wrote in message+ <20020815.6312800.3627404053@imagnu.geo>...  > Hi, J > Does anyone know whether there are VWS drivers for the SPX graphics card > on a VAX?w   >     Nope./  > > I have some software that runs under VWS, and at the moment,D > the fastest VAXstation I can get with GPX is the 3100/76. I have aJ > VAXstation 4000/90 and would really like to run this software on that. IF > have tried the VWS->DECwindows migration package, but it is not very > reliable, nor very 'snappy'!  D >     Worked pretty well on a Alpha 10 years ago when I tried it ;-)  F > I know that there was no official support for VWS/SPX, but I thoughtG > there were unofficial / unsupported drivers knocking about somewhere.m  I >     Nope.  Never were.  Never will be.  The GPX was the last thing evert/ > worked on officially or unofficially for VSW.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:08:11 -0700 " From: Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>- Subject: Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95? , Message-ID: <3D5DDA3B.8423DDBE@telocity.com>  S Actually that was one of the strengths of OpenVMS is that you could write come code R in Fortran and some in C and then link them together into one executable.  Use the best of both worlds.  S I worked at a place where the programmers were always saying they wanted to use C++lU because it would looked good on their resumes.  Not that it was the best tool for the(R job but that they could get jobs elsewhere.  Pointed hair bossed have to come from
 somewhere.   Cass   Steve Lionel wrote:4  4 > On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:41:45 +0200, Didier Morandi! > <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:n >oS > >Reading the F95 doc (better late than never) I learn that today we have pointers/: > >management and even pointers initialization within F95. > >s$ > >So, why is C having such success?B > >To be able to execute embedded macro code? Who does this today? > >S > >Your advice?e > G > Why is a hammer better than a screwdriver?  It isn't.  Each is a toolo9 > that is good at some things, but not so good at others.e >cF > Fortran is very widely used, and it is still the preeminent languageC > for high-performance technical computing.  We are seeing many newhC > scientific and engineering applications being written in Fortran.  >eG > C and C++ are also widely used in this field, and recent improvementseG > in the C language have brought to it some of the benefits Fortran has  > had for years. >rD > In comp.lang.fortran, the C vs. Fortran war flares up on an almostE > weekly basis.  I see no point in this - use whichever language bestuG > suits the task at hand - your familiarity with one or the other plays G > a big role in this decision.  I certainly don't recommend translatingaG > a working application from Fortran to C (or from C to Fortran) - that8  > seems a waste of effort to me. >yF > Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com >6 > Steve Lionel > Software Products Division > Intel Corporation. > Nashua, NH >:< > Intel Fortran for Windows and Compaq Visual Fortran forum:8 >   http://intel.forums.liveworld.com/forum.jsp?forum=76  > Intel Fortran for Linux forum:9 >   http://intel.forums.liveworld.com/forum.jsp?forum=121N   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:57:26 +0200S" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: [OT] (really?) For Terry S.6 Message-ID: <ajjhuo$1b1ps4$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   <WG>< "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> schreef in bericht! news:3D5D27A9.A2D5B20A@Free.fr...a > It's Franglais:c >n > Un ptit beurre, des  touyous > Happy   birth   day  to youa >i > :-)a >e > D. >c > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:l > >h> > > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message% > > news:3D5C9843.CC473911@Free.fr... # > > > Un ptit beurre, des touyous !e# > > > Un ptit beurre, des touyous !n& > > > Un ptit beurre, des touyou ous !# > > > Un ptit beurre, des touyous !o > > >m > > >S	 > > > D.' > >eK > > Sorry, my command of Francais really sucks. I can't get much beyond theo > > "butter" in the message!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:11:47 +0200a- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>t( Subject: Re: [OT] (really?) For Terry S.' Message-ID: <3D5D5C81.DE472315@Free.fr>r   Hans Vlems wrote:t >  > <WG>   Uberzetzung bitte ?r   D.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.451 ************************