1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 457       Contents: Re: ALL-IN-1 Shared Folders P BLISS history now published in Software - Practices and Experience -   was: RE:  Re: Booting off users  Re: Booting off users < Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion) Re:  DECCXX 6.5 Unreachable code warnings J Re: DECmigrate (was: Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win95_)- Determining what .h file a function is in...? 1 Re: Determining what .h file a function is in...? 1 Re: Determining what .h file a function is in...? 1 Re: Determining what .h file a function is in...? & Re: device full: wrong error messages? Re: Dumb TCPIP question  RE: Dumb TCPIP question ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap  Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper RE: Fortune Magazine wrapper From Today's Network World... ! Re: From Today's Network World... ! Re: From Today's Network World... ! Re: From Today's Network World... ' Re: High quality of HP Software support - Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c? ) How to "forward declare" a function in c? - Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c? " Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly2 Re: Java plugin performance for interactive applet: just recevied a presentation from the Itanium VMS roadshow Network World Article  Re: Network World Article  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing  Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing  RE: NewHp & VMS Licensing & Re: NFS Server configuration questions Re: OpenVMS tar % Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ( Re: TS10/VAX Updates - DELQA now worked.# Re: VAXstation 3100 not starting up & VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk. Re: VS3100 questions5 Re: [very OT] Fund transfer spam: where is the issue?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:50:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> $ Subject: Re: ALL-IN-1 Shared Folders, Message-ID: <3D612FD1.615A5A35@videotron.ca>  
 Jon wrote: > D > Is there a way to get a list of all the Shared Folders in Allin1??    L Do you mean shared drawers ? Sharing is done at the drawer level ( partition -> drawer ->folder -> document)   ? Not sure what your needs are, but you can inspire youself from:   K OA$DO:FC_DWR_PRINT_FULL.SCP    (which is called from a list/merge context).   I You could then do a loop FOR PARTITION DO  which would iterate though all C drawers in the current partition (from the ALLIN1 MANAGER account).   L The print_full script finds out whether a drawer is shared or not, if sharedM whether it is advanced shared of regular shared, and then lists the users who A have access to this drawer (and what type of access was granted).   N Interestingly, to get the list of sharers, ALLIN1  uses the ACL dataset to getJ the list of users who are in the acl of the DOC0.DIR file (*a* file in theN drawer) and then lists those, but it provides a very neat way to list/test for access to a file.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:28:48 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: BLISS history now published in Software - Practices and Experience -   was: RE:  % Message-ID: <3D616F46.1040108@hp.com>   
 Joe wrote: .  > H > I don't suppose there's a "BLISS for Dummies" or "Teach Yourself BLISS > in 5 Days" book out there... >  > Joe   F Not actually a BLISS primer, but Ron Brender's "The BLISS programming H langauge: a history" has finally been published in "SOFTWARE - PRACTICE # AND EXPERIENCE" (2002; 32:955-981).    --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:20:42 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: Booting off users$ Message-ID: <3d614556$1@news.si.com>  K >Quick question...any way to boot users off at a certain time with OpenVMS?   , I prefer to boot off the system disk <grin>. --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2002 17:24:14 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)  Subject: Re: Booting off users3 Message-ID: <t6VJapLTxMSp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <ajiu510udf@enews3.newsguy.com>, "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> writes:  > Hello all! > L > Quick question...any way to boot users off at a certain time with OpenVMS?I >  I have login restrictions set, but if they logon before hand they stay G > on.  Also, is there any way to log the output of a command?  Well...I = > shouldn't say command since most of the commands I can do a K > /output=filename.  The findlocks program is what I am trying to capture.   > Thanks people! >  > James   > For booting people off I use the freeware Watcher package.  It? can be configured to log people off during certain times of the @ day (night) based on a bunch of criteria (held rights is the one3 I use to distinguish kickable versus non-kickable).   $ For capturing output have you tried   " $ define/user sys$output afile.tmp  > before issuing the command?  It will capture the output of the@ next command to afile.tmp and then revert sys$output back to the? screen for the next command (in most cases).  Of course, with a A fairly recent version of VMS (since you didn't mention version, I ? can't guess if your version would work) you could also PIPE the : command to a SEARCH of sys$input for a specific string(s).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:03:19 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)E Subject: Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1908022203190001@1cust150.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   N In article <ajqlvb$1cqirq$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu wrote:    F >I don't know how to break this to you, but if your talking Win2K hereF >it isn't stable when it has nothing running on it.  I have a lab fullF >of them. After the students left back in June, they were just sittingD >there all by themselves.  Inside of 30 days every one of them had aF >message on the screen informing someone that they had run dangerouslyE >low of Virtual Memory.  Within the next 15 days, they all ran out of F >virtual memory and locked up.  A memory leak that big hardly fits the  >definition of a stable machine.  G If you turn off the power, Win2K won't leak memory.  It's actually very  stable in that configuration.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:02:26 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 2 Subject: Re:  DECCXX 6.5 Unreachable code warnings* Message-ID: <3D619D61.7040506@qsl.network>   Stewart Van Kirk wrote: : > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message* >   news:<3D5D2B58.3040902@qsl.network>... >  >><snip>G >>sizeof() is evaluated at compile time.  Therefore the code path that   >>follows will never change. > C > OK, I accept that because I'm using the pragma to define specific - > instances of the template, e.g. T=char [1].  >   E > Would you have an insight as to why the compiler does not issue the G > same warnings in the other two cases, BAD and UGLY?  The UGLY case is B > especially perplexing because the code is modified in a separateF > control flow path; as such, I would not expect any difference in the > compiler output.  I I really do not know why the CXX compiler is not issuing diagnostics for   the BAD and UGLY variants.  B One thing to do with each variant is to compile with machine code H generated in the listings, and compare the machine code.  This may help 9 show why the compiler is not giving the same diagnostics.   A The inline modifier may have something to do with it, or may not.    No offense intended but:A The long all caps title on your post may have caused some people  I browsing this newsgroup/mailing list to miss that this was a C++ posting.   E What shows up on many newsreaders is "REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION" and  F almost all posts with all capital letters in the subject are spam, so H they are generally ignored or discarded by spam filters.  That specific G title is currently very similar to one used for the Nigerian 419 scams.   G Some C/CXX developers scan this newsgroup from time to time, so I have  9 retitled this note to see if it will get their attention.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only   : ------------- Original Post ------------------------------    C The DECCXX 6.5-004 compiler on OpenVMS 7.3 is confusing me with its B warning messages about unreachable code.  I do not know whether to take them seriously or not.   ? The following code illustrates that compiled one way, I get two @ unreachable code warnings and if I slightly modify the code [notF changing the operational meaning] in three (probably more) other ways,F I do not get the warnings.  In fact, two of the three "other ways" areC functionally-isomorphic to the code that produces the warnings.  Is F there a substantive problem here, or is the compiler just a little too smart?   The compiler output:B ------------------------------------------------------------------  + $cxx mango.cxx/define=Bad      ! no problem & $cxx mango.cxx/define=Ugly     ! ditto" $cxx mango.cxx/define=Good     ! "% $cxx mango.cxx                 ! oops             x = 0; 	 ........^ ; %CXX-W-CODCAUUNR, statement either is unreachable or causes  unreachable             code 3 at line number 53 in file DKA100:[FRUIT]MANGO.CXX;1             x = 1; 	 ........^ ; %CXX-W-CODCAUUNR, statement either is unreachable or causes  unreachable             code 3 at line number 55 in file DKA100:[FRUIT]MANGO.CXX;1   B ------------------------------------------------------------------	 The code: B ------------------------------------------------------------------ #include <iostream.h>    template <class T> class Mango  {  public:     Mango(char *nt_str);   
 #ifdef BAD>    inline static istream& input_str(istream& is, Mango<T>& s); #else 7    static istream& input_str(istream& is, Mango<T>& s);  #endif  9    friend istream& operator>>(istream& is, Mango<T>& s) {       return input_str(is, s);     }  
 protected:    T value_; };   template <class T>+ Mango<T>::Mango(char *str) { *this = str; }    template <class T>7 istream&  Mango<T>::input_str(istream& is, Mango<T>& s)  { 
    int x = 0;     if (!is.eof()) {       if (is.peek() == '"') {
        int i;         char tmpchar = is.get();  #ifdef UGLY         for (i=0;3 	   i < sizeof(T) && (tmpchar = is.get()) != EOF && 2                  '\n' != tmpchar && '"' != tmpchar
 	   ; i++) 	s.value_[i] = tmpchar;  #else &        for (i=0 ; i<sizeof(T) ; i++) { 	tmpchar = is.get();) 	if (tmpchar == EOF || tmpchar == '\n' ||  	    tmpchar == '"') break;  	s.value_[i] = tmpchar;         } #endif      }      else {  #ifdef GOOD #        x = sizeof (T) <= 1 ? 0 : 1;  #else         if (sizeof(T) <= 1) 	x = 0;         else  	x = 1;  #endif      }    }
    return is;  }   ( #pragma define_template Mango<char[ 1 ]>( #pragma define_template Mango<char[ 2 ]>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:22:52 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)S Subject: Re: DECmigrate (was: Re: JetDirect Printing through Pathworks from Win95_) 3 Message-ID: <0de89.13965$y71.353096@news.chello.at>   _ In article <ajr2q5$kso$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  > J >  The subject line has been changed, and all follow-ups -- since this hasF >  diverged from a PATHWORKS question -- have been set to comp.os.vms. > J >  Please download the text-format version of the OpenVMS Frequently AskedJ >  Questions (FAQ), and please search the FAQ for the string "DECmigrate".G >  Follow the URL that is listed in the FAQ for the DECmigrate package. J >  Then please read the referenced webpage.  You will find an introductionJ >  to DECmigrate and information on the status of DECmigrate -- and pleaseJ >  note that the product support status has been changed slightly from itsK >  long-standing historical status -- and you will also find the DECmigrate  >  kit available for download.   The FAQ states  E                    The DECmigrate image translation tool, a tool that I                    translates OpenVMS VAX images for use on OpenVMS Alpha #                    is available at:   M                    o  http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/index.html   8                    This tool is not currently supported.  G I a;sp didn't expect that someone reanimates DECmigrate. So, you see me H really surprised (I remember to have seen some VMS roadmaps, but I don'tE remember to have seen VEST in them. I should check wether my brain is D really as rotten as I feel now). But, you're right (of course), if IJ follow above link, I end up on the page I already found (and posted here).  G >  We expect to have a DECmigrate tool available as part of the OpenVMS G >  port to the IA-64 architecture, though I do not know how many of the G >  other obvious platform porting permutations possible have received a  >  formal committment. > A >  As has been usual, the prefered porting path is a source port.   I Many thanks, Hoff. to you and your team (and Warren and his team either).    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:27:56 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>6 Subject: Determining what .h file a function is in...?. Message-ID: <3D6154CC.608B137A@pressenter.com>  H I've been looking at some of the sys$examples:*.c files, and was looking at the database examples.   C I tried to compile them, but notice some of the sys$ functions were  declaredimplicitely..   ) But this leads me to a bigger question...   F Given a predefined function... How does a person go about figuring outE which include file to.... well.... include.. so that that function is  "available."       Thanks in advance,   Lyndon     --  G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:59:11 -0500 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> : Subject: Re: Determining what .h file a function is in...?G Message-ID: <craigberry-71E4F4.20591019082002@news.directvinternet.com>   . In article <3D6154CC.608B137A@pressenter.com>,0  Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:  H > Given a predefined function... How does a person go about figuring outG > which include file to.... well.... include.. so that that function is  > "available."   $ help cc run-time somefunc     OR   7 $ search sys$common:[decc$lib.reference...]*.h somefunc     OR   F Read the entry for the function in the RTL reference manual available G on the C product home page, the OpenVMS documentation site, the CD-ROM  F documentation media that shipped with the OS and your compiler or the & hard copy of same orderable from HPAQ.     OR 0  - Look at any standard guide to the C language.L   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:42:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s: Subject: Re: Determining what .h file a function is in...?, Message-ID: <3D61AC7E.CC01E7BE@videotron.ca>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:gE > I tried to compile them, but notice some of the sys$ functions wereW > declaredimplicitely...  H > Given a predefined function... How does a person go about figuring outG > which include file to.... well.... include.. so that that function is  > "available."  F HELP CC RUN function_name  will reveal which include files are needed.  / As far as the SYS and LIB, you need to include a  	 starlet.hp and lib$routines.h  M on VAX, those last 2 include fail to define the uppercase routine names, so I G created my own "my_starlet.h" and "my_lib$routines.h" which defines theo* uppercase finstions to the lowercase ones.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:30:45 GMT.- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>m: Subject: Re: Determining what .h file a function is in...?* Message-ID: <3D61A500.7020702@qsl.network>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:wJ > I've been looking at some of the sys$examples:*.c files, and was looking > at the database examples.  > E > I tried to compile them, but notice some of the sys$ functions wereo > declared implicitely..  I The older headers did not provide full prototypes for the sys$ functions  I and the current headers files optionally provide more generic prototypes.o  G The the new behavior is based on the preprocessor symbol __NEW_STARLET.y  3 #ifndef __NEW_STARLET /* two leading underscores */g #define __NEW_STARLET 1a #endif  F By using custom protoypes for the system and other library functions, C you can improve the compiler's error checking, and also assist the lI optimizer in generating more efficient code.  But a custom prototype for m) one program may not be right for another.s  + > But this leads me to a bigger question...  > H > Given a predefined function... How does a person go about figuring outG > which include file to.... well.... include.. so that that function isM > "available."  C For standard C library functions that information is in the manual.P  I However I am lazy, and since the standard install of the C complier puts gD plain text copies of the header files in a reference directory.  EX:  ' $SEARCH SYS$COMMON:[DECC*...]*.h printfa  F Since most of the common stuff is in st*.h,un*.h, you can use that to  isolate your search.  B Most OpenVMS constants are in of the form "ZZZ"$ are in "zzz"def.h   -Johna wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:48:52 -0400e- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>>/ Subject: Re: device full: wrong error messages?t' Message-ID: <3D614BA5.72BE4A1@ohio.edu>    Tom Simpson wrote: > N > $       say "******************* CONVERTING MASTER FILE *******************"@ > ******************* CONVERTING MASTER FILE ******************* > $       show timeD >   28-JUL-2002 03:54:40N > $       convert/nosort/stat/fdl=fdl:master.fdl master$dat cvt_dir:master.dat > CONVERT Statistics& > Number of Files Processed:         1J > Total Records Processed:     7535413    Buffered I/O Count:         2895J > Total Exception Records:           0    Direct I/O Count:        1542752J > Total Valid Records:         7535413    Page Faults:               22496J > Elapsed Time:          0 01:35:02.64    CPU Time:          0 00:17:28.562 > $       file_name = f$trnlnm("master$dat") + ";"0 > $       delete DATA5:MASTER.DAT;/noconfirm/logI > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DSA5:[API.DATA]MASTER.DAT;1 deleted (10319922 blocks) 0 > $       copy/log cvt_dir:master.dat master$dat    P Perhaps more space is allocated to the file than is used.  What do you get from:   $ TYPE fdl:master.fdlo $ DIR/FULL cvt_dir:master.datp    E > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening DSA5:[API.DATA]MASTER.DAT; as output = > -RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocation)pE > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, DISK$DATA8:[CONVERTWORK3]MASTER.DAT;1 not copied" > $ CONVERT_ERROR: > 5 > "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote in messages4 > news:pmbtku822kd7prmuv78ag243lcsd6sth0d@4ax.com...   [snip]   -- eB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:29:21 -0400$; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: Dumb TCPIP question$ Message-ID: <3d61475e$1@news.si.com>  J >I spent some time over the weekend and this morning looking for somewhere to% >download TCP/IP serives version 5.1.   D In general, you will not find OpenVMS layered products available forH download anywhere.  Buy a copy of the CD from HP.  You might also find aG CONDIST on eBay (although it's technically illegal to sell them, IIRC).- --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comuA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventt< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:27:37 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e  Subject: RE: Dumb TCPIP question9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEEGFJAA.tom@kednos.com>   . Maybe this should go into HP's suggestion box.   >-----Original Message-----aA >From: Brian Tillman [mailto:tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com]n' >Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 12:29 PMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Re: Dumb TCPIP questionu >  >lK >>I spent some time over the weekend and this morning looking for somewherer >toa& >>download TCP/IP serives version 5.1. >iE >In general, you will not find OpenVMS layered products available foreI >download anywhere.  Buy a copy of the CD from HP.  You might also find a H >CONDIST on eBay (although it's technically illegal to sell them, IIRC). >--uB >Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comB >Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com> >3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent= >Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"i9 >       This opinion doesn't represent that of my company, >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >3 ---1& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:54:18 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap+ Message-ID: <3D6130C7.63CEB79@videotron.ca>e   "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > Just in case, some folks were not aware of the web site for HP ETS2002:w+ > http://www.hpets2002.com/portal/index.jsp    Talk about an obscure name.m  N Since Compaq is gone, and HP has its own user group, wouldn't it make sense toC return everything back to normal and call a spade a spade : DECUS ?I  N Members aren't interested in wintel crap, they want stuff about VMS and Tru64.M Tru64 is replacing the PDP11 as the "dead product people still use a lot". AslK a result, it would be perfectly logical for the usergroup formerly known as3I DECUS to return to its roots since all that is left for it to support arer equipment that was "Digital".n   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2002 17:10:51 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)f0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap3 Message-ID: <jP70QHYhesiF@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <3D6130C7.63CEB79@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:e > "Main, Kerry" wrote:J >> Just in case, some folks were not aware of the web site for HP ETS2002:, >> http://www.hpets2002.com/portal/index.jsp >  > Talk about an obscure name.d > P > Since Compaq is gone, and HP has its own user group, wouldn't it make sense toE > return everything back to normal and call a spade a spade : DECUS ?t > P > Members aren't interested in wintel crap, they want stuff about VMS and Tru64.O > Tru64 is replacing the PDP11 as the "dead product people still use a lot". AseM > a result, it would be perfectly logical for the usergroup formerly known asaK > DECUS to return to its roots since all that is left for it to support aret > equipment that was "Digital".h  ? Maybe we should just change the DECUS acroynm to Dead Equipmentr< Continues Usual Success and smile knowingly when people ask.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2002 22:46:15 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap* Message-ID: <ajrsfn$sa7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  a In article <jP70QHYhesiF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:C :> "Main, Kerry" wrote:eK :>> Just in case, some folks were not aware of the web site for HP ETS2002:g- :>> http://www.hpets2002.com/portal/index.jspo :> e :> Talk about an obscure name.  H   Both http://www.cets2002.com/ and http://www.hpets2002.com/ work fine,=   and both will get you to the abovementioned (and ugly) URL.g    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:16:15 +1000 * From: James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap9 Message-ID: <pan.2002.08.20.13.16.07.884790.24834@hp.com>-  3 On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:54:18 +1000, JF Mezei wrote:cG > Since Compaq is gone, and HP has its own user group, wouldn't it make F > sense to return everything back to normal and call a spade a spade :	 > DECUS ?    Hear, hear.=  A I'm a DECUS member in Australia.  Was so before I joined Digital.rA I'd like to keep the name!  As far as I know, we are still DECUS.    --
 James CameronX   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:21:51 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappernE Message-ID: <3Ha89.24221$sa1.38@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>-  2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660927@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. John,a  E >>> Without positive word-of-mouth references from existing customersdG about HP's commitment to VMS, all the good technical references are fore2 naught - "Great OS, shame about HP wasting it."<<<  F As a fyi, and keeping in mind that it's only a start, but I'm not sureH if you and others have seen the following recent testimonials for HP and OpenVMS, but just in case-  < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/+ (Commerzbank and disaster tolerance - 9/11)MH http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/ (India Railways fault tolerant solution)F http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/ (New ZealandB Steel runs process control systems on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems)= http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/southeastern/pF (Southeastern Freight - "Robinson is a firm believer in the HP OpenVMSH cluster technology and appreciates the high availability and flexibilityG the system provides: "Since the beginning, we have led this industry ini applying technology.")     Kerry,  F Yes, I've seen these. And they are good. But they are only seen if one@ trolls the Compaq web site. How many CEO's CTO's, CFO's do that?  L Take the words and sentiments from those testimonials you cited above and doJ a full page add in the Wall Street Journal with an 1/6 of the page devotedK to each story - headline it in really big type with 'Mission Critical - your. bet. Disaster tolerant - got that nailed too'.  L Or to play on the McDonalds tagline, put the Commerzbank and Indian Railways, stuff on the same page and headline it with:  '                         Billions Servedt  -              Whether it's transporting peoplec,                       or trading securities,,                      for bottom line results'               OpenVMS get the job done.   1          Reliability. Security. Interoperability.                              OpenVMS"                            From HP   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:37:54 -0500h& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperr8 Message-ID: <g6i2mucnb9k55l3k4m871r92jmdud1faa8@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:14:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:o     >tL >No way can one produce something that everyone wants to hear. I like WarrenL >Zevon, the Stones, and Pink Floyd. Other people like Frank Sinatra and M&M,
 >et al.... >   ? Terry, the M&M one above had me spitting soda pop on my screen.  Stop it.   (FYI:  Eminem)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:24:21 -0400/' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> % Subject: RE: Fortune Magazine wrapper.T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266093B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,(  * <<< How many CEO's CTO's, CFO's do that?>>  B None - that's why I and others extract them and send them to theseC folks. They are also printed as part of Customer proposals, demo's,u
 shows ect.  G Also, the PDF files allow Customers and ISV partners who are looking to D justify OpenVMS enhancements and/or new application opportunities to4 show what other Customers have been able to achieve.  H Re: Marketing in WSJ .. Hey, nice ad suggestion - you have my vote. Only line I would change is: A         "Reliability. Security. Interoperability. All on Industryg Standard Software."t  # Are you looking at a second career?r   :-)a   Regardsn    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  Sent: August 19, 2002 2:22 PM5 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperD      2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660927@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .: John,e  E >>> Without positive word-of-mouth references from existing customers,G about HP's commitment to VMS, all the good technical references are foru2 naught - "Great OS, shame about HP wasting it."<<<  F As a fyi, and keeping in mind that it's only a start, but I'm not sureH if you and others have seen the following recent testimonials for HP and OpenVMS, but just in case-  < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/+ (Commerzbank and disaster tolerance - 9/11) H http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/ (India Railways fault tolerant solution)F http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/ (New ZealandB Steel runs process control systems on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems)= http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/southeastern/ F (Southeastern Freight - "Robinson is a firm believer in the HP OpenVMSH cluster technology and appreciates the high availability and flexibilityG the system provides: "Since the beginning, we have led this industry in  applying technology.")     Kerry,  F Yes, I've seen these. And they are good. But they are only seen if one@ trolls the Compaq web site. How many CEO's CTO's, CFO's do that?  E Take the words and sentiments from those testimonials you cited abovetD and do a full page add in the Wall Street Journal with an 1/6 of the@ page devoted to each story - headline it in really big type withF 'Mission Critical - you bet. Disaster tolerant - got that nailed too'.  C Or to play on the McDonalds tagline, put the Commerzbank and Indiann5 Railways stuff on the same page and headline it with:.  '                         Billions Serveda  -              Whether it's transporting peoplee,                       or trading securities,,                      for bottom line results'               OpenVMS get the job done.   1          Reliability. Security. Interoperability.n                             OpenVMS"                            From HP   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:06:31 -0500o$ From: "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com>& Subject: From Today's Network World...7 Message-ID: <000e01c247bb$ea3762f0$342810ac@petris.com>h   Extract:  9   Users hope this merging of teams works out, especially a6   as it relates to moving OpenVMS to Itanium platform.  7   "OpenVMS has amazing clustering, is highly reliable, e6   very secure and has the Apache Web server and every ;   compiler users could ever want," says John Eisenschmidt, o9   a systems analyst for the American Association for the n:   Advancement of Science in Washington. "If the migration B   of OpenVMS to Itanium is done correctly it will work out well."   C Complete article: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/0819infra.html,g# "HP-Compaq chip away at to-do list"/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:59:13 GMTs1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> * Subject: Re: From Today's Network World...) Message-ID: <5Le89.2288$aA.593@sccrnsc02>-  / "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com> wrote in message-1 news:000e01c247bb$ea3762f0$342810ac@petris.com...S
 > Extract: >n: >   Users hope this merging of teams works out, especially8 >   as it relates to moving OpenVMS to Itanium platform. >f8 >   "OpenVMS has amazing clustering, is highly reliable,7 >   very secure and has the Apache Web server and every1< >   compiler users could ever want," says John Eisenschmidt,: >   a systems analyst for the American Association for the; >   Advancement of Science in Washington. "If the migrationAC >   of OpenVMS to Itanium is done correctly it will work out well."   K But it will never happen, Art. Just ask all the "experts" in this group who + are still whining about the death of Alpha.   ' See ya in a less-contentious newsgroup!    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:36:18 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> * Subject: Re: From Today's Network World...' Message-ID: <3D61BE2A.FDF66274@fsi.net>r   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:c > 1 > "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com> wrote in messageD3 > news:000e01c247bb$ea3762f0$342810ac@petris.com...s > > Extract: > >r< > >   Users hope this merging of teams works out, especially: > >   as it relates to moving OpenVMS to Itanium platform. > >n: > >   "OpenVMS has amazing clustering, is highly reliable,9 > >   very secure and has the Apache Web server and everyd> > >   compiler users could ever want," says John Eisenschmidt,< > >   a systems analyst for the American Association for the= > >   Advancement of Science in Washington. "If the migration E > >   of OpenVMS to Itanium is done correctly it will work out well."  > I > But it will never happen, Art. Just ask all the "experts" in this groupd  E ...not to mention industry mavens who remain hard pressed to say justeD what is the hold-up on the final emergence of a commercially viable,; ready-for-prime-time, mass-produced Itanic and/or IA64 CPU.    > whoe- > are still whining about the death of Alpha.m  C Yeah, rather like those still whining about slavery in the U.S. anduA demanding restitution, those still whining about Nazi Germany and E demanding restitution, those still whining about the death marches onyF Bataan, the attrocites in Laos or Serbia, the incursion into Kuwait byG Iraq, the 11-Sep-2002 attack on the World Trade Center, the collapse ofaB Enron and Worldcomm, the drop of the Dow from 10,300 to the middle 8,000's, ... need I go on?   -- ? David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 04:22:25 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: From Today's Network World...A Message-ID: <5uj89.87861$2p2.4088650@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message# news:5Le89.2288$aA.593@sccrnsc02...e   ...'  ) > See ya in a less-contentious newsgroup!   K If that means you're leaving (well, I can hope), good riddance.  All you've K done here, in your rag (the issues I've seen, anyway), in The Inquirer, andiK in Ken Farmer's Web sites since 6/26/01 is regurgitate cHumPaq spin:  I canPK see why cHumPaq might consider paying you to do so but can't see why anyone > would pay to read it, given that it's so clearly self-serving.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:04:08 GMT % From: riplips@yahoo.com (Mark Fisher)n0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support2 Message-ID: <3d612416.263507473@enews.newsguy.com>  E So, does anybody ever consider support quality and cost when choosinglD an architecture for a project/application? My opinion is, NEVER. The= business has dumbed down so much that it's "aceptable" to runi critical apps on garbage.-  @ I just love the TV comercial for DeVry with the smartly dressed ? "network analyst" who says when the server goes down I boot it .D back up or "build another one". If our server(s) ever went down and F I had to "build another one", I would also have to "find another job".  F On 16 Aug 2002 13:44:30 -0600, frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie) wrote:  I >	What a week it's been.  Reminded me again why I love working on VMS so oM >much, and why I hate working on Windows products so much.  I've been tasked pO >with installing an application on a client's site that involves modifications mP >to our VMS app, installing two Windows apps, and making them all communicate.  M >More specifically, they have to communicate via NFS, and one of the Windows i >apps is an NFS client. H >	For the life of me I cannot get the NFS client to work.  I spent some Q >time on the phone with Compaq/Hp software support because I didn't have the UCX oM >NFS configured properly.  It's been quite a few years since I've dealt with mK >software support, and I'm glad to see that there's been NO degredation of lR >quality.  At one point, I was teamed-up-on by three techs, but it was all in a   P >good way and we figured out the problem.  Even though my primary tech got some J >help, none of them came across as incompetent.  They were all cheery and 9 >knowledgeable, and never treated me like I was an idiot.-G >	I've also spent some time on the phone with the tech support for the SN >NFS client application.  Sheesh.  Treated me like an idiot, doesn't know why Q >his product doesn't work, got sarcastic with a coworker who tried to help him.  oK >His best advise was (of course) deinstall and reinstall.  Didn't work, of aM >course, and now he's not answering my calls.  I logged a new call.  The new eO >lady says she needs to build a Win98 box like I'm running to test on and will c >then call me back.cF >	Night and day quality levels here.  We've all run into this kind of J >stuff with Windows application vendors, of course.  So I want to mention P >this incident in public, not to complain about them, but to praise Compaq/HP.  O >High quality is visible, but when it's juxtaposed with poor quality in a very vM >short span of time, it's VERY visible.  Thank you very much, please keep up a >the excellent work! >m >Sharon:; >(Back to beating my head bloody against the Windoze Wall.)g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:05:32 GMTt- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>e6 Subject: Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c?* Message-ID: <3D619F1F.3080500@qsl.network>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:o! > Quick C programming question...  > I > How do you "forward declare" a function? For legibility sake, it may bebI > better to order functions in different order than what their dependancyl > demands... >  > So how do I do that?  F Simply put the function definitions at the top of the module, that is ) what the standard header files are doing.:  F A forward function declaration looks just like the declaration of the < function, but has a ";" instead of the body of the function.   -JohnC wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:30:32 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>2 Subject: How to "forward declare" a function in c?- Message-ID: <3D615568.582A72B@pressenter.com>.   Quick C programming question...l    G How do you "forward declare" a function? For legibility sake, it may bee better@ to order functions in different order than what their dependancy
 demands...   So how do I do that?     Thanks, in advance,    Lyndon	            -- ,G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of mye	 employer.e    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:49:35 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>66 Subject: Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c?, Message-ID: <3D61AE3A.96A2DB0E@videotron.ca>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:g+ > How do you "forward declare" a function?      9 int cook_cake(short temperature, unsigned long minutes) ;    main() {i int status;h printf("Mixing ingredients\n");u printf("Cooking cake\n");f status = cook_cake(200, 45);= printf("Cake is finished, take it out of overn and enjoy\n");  }   7 int cook_cake(short temperature, unsigned long minutes)L {y( printf("Waiting for oven to warm up\n");, printf("Oven warmed up, starting baking\n");& printf("Time elapsed, cake cooked\n");
 return(1); }r        M Note that when you forward declare the function, you need the semicolon aftere the declaration. You can forward declare as:.   int cook_cake();# int cook_cake(int,  unsigned long);g9 int cook_cake(short temperature, unsigned long minutes) ;n  = The first one will disable argument checking by the compiler.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:22:20 +0100aU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>i+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlye0 Message-ID: <ajr9hq$84b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,  > @ > Back from holidays I guess ? Hadn't seen you here in awhile .. > ; > <<< Really, they are swapping HP-UX and MVS for Solaris>>  > J > Well, given MVS (now called OS/390 I believe) environments are typicallyH > extremely heavy batch environments and given MVS  has extremely strongI > clustered batch solutions that can be balanced over multiple servers at0C > multiple sites (multi-site Parallel Sysplex is similar to OpenVMSvE > multi-site clusters), I would love to hear how this aspect is to beu) > addressed in this new Solaris solution.  >     C Why would this be an issue. The biggest F15K's are by most measures*@ 3-4x faster than the latest IBM Z series mainframe. The machinesA we are replacing are by no means new and so we don't need to haved= a cluster of F15's to replace the batch processing capabilitys of the Z series.  A In practice we have found that we need less capacity on the F15's 4 than we origionally expected for the big batch runs.  ; As always you underestimate what a large SMP machine can do " because you don't do any yourself.   Regards  Andrew Harrison6     > :-)  > 	 > Regards0 >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant: > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660S > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy.7 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com] e  > Sent: August 19, 2002 10:15 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.- > Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlyP >  >  >  >  > Derigible wrote: >  > & >>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" A >><andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message D, >>news:ajqqut$3bk$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >> >> >>0 >>>The overhang of surplus equipment from failed3 >>>dot coms is behind us and Sun has had some majorl2 >>>wins in its target growth markets, one of which0 >>>I was on the winning bid team for. HP and IBM >>>being the two who lost out. >>>  >>> 3 >>Um, no, I'd say it was the customer who lost out.  >> >> >> >  > 5 > Really, they are swapping HP-UX and MVS for Solarisa3 > seems a very good choice to me and they are happy-
 > as well. > 	 > Regards, > Andrew Harrison2 >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:55:01 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlym2 Message-ID: <9ab89.29$o86.950407@news.cpqcorp.net>  6 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >  >e0 >Which is of course why Sun's stock is currently2 >at 4-5 dollars rather than 20. We had 15 years of1 >profit and revenue growth followed by 2 quarterst  >of revenue declines and losses. >a  J Well...  I did say there was a tenuous connection.  When an investor looksL at the bottom line at SUNW (pick a source) and see's N/A* as it's P/E ratio,L and then looks at the fundamentals - it doesn't matter what you did 15 yearsJ ago.  They see a 3yr decline of ~11% and a 5yr decline of ~5%.  Unless youE can turn around your bottom line - the stock is not going to rebound.   J Anyone reading here doesn't have to take my word for things, or IDC's wordD for rubbish slices and dices of market share.  They can read the SECJ filings, or simply pull up a web browser and head to a business page.  TheE fundamentals for SUNW are grim.  Last 12 months earnings loss of .08,aG estimated earnings for this quarter loss of .01.  The only thing with auL "subjective" component - is that the stock is down ~40% for the last quarterI which may not be "directly" a result of losing money.  On the other hand,iH HPQ made +.84 for the last 12 months, and estimates +.16 for the currentJ quarter, and also pays a dividend.  It's stock looking at Bloomberg today,K appears to be down about 11% - with the S&P down ~14.5% and the Nasdaq downuH 18.8%.  So it looks like investors are not punishing HP nearly as bad asB Sun.  And they are punishing Sun worse than the market in general.  G Just go to bloomberg.com and get a quote on SUNW and HPQ with a 3 monthML scale - and note, 6 month and 1 year scales don't help - you need to go backG 5 years to show Sun succeeding - the graph shows real well the .COM andi
 telco bubble.e     > > >The revenue declines you have seen so far are probably mostly< >customer sentiment not the fact that they can no longer buy2 >the product range that they used to buy from you. >a; >Wait for that before announcing that the merger has been a/ >sucess. >s  I This is simply random guessing - "I think you are doing badly because youo> walk funny, your mother dresses you bad, and calls you Sally".  I I can "guess" that Sun is going into a stock decline and has taken a huge A hit on it's revenue and profits because Linux is eating into your J traditional technical UNIX market, the UNIX market future is in doubt withI pressures from both Linux and Windows, the future of Sparc is making your K customers skittish - since it's unlikely that you will fix your performanceuK problems soon, your margins have noplace to go but down, the customers thatrI drove your growth in recent years are part of the bubble that burst, etc, I etc, etc. - causing you to "restructure" - i.e. fire employees to contain  costs.  K The genesis of this note was that someone said that HP's stock decline is atG result of it's merger activity, and that Sun's stock was moving higher. K BOTH statements are misleading or false.  I *will* agree with you that IMHO7K it is *too early* to determine how well the merger has worked.  The successuK or failure of the merger is probably not a major factor in the price of theeF stock since the merger.  Nor has Sun stock performed well in that same
 timeframe.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:06:51 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlys, Message-ID: <3D6141C2.1A422180@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > Market analyst are we?  Frankly, HP is positioned well to take advantage of E > the current market and the strengths of the new company to create ai4 > fomidable competitor when the market turns around.  N I disagree. With HP's enterprise products  ALL on dead end platforms, awaitingM IA64, HP will remain stagnant for a number of years in terms of acquiring newcA customers. It will be only good for supplying existing customers.0  E Remember that it isn't just a merger, but also a massive architecturewN transition. HP-UX is a big nebulous thing since nobody knows what it will lookN like once/if they intergrate the different-endian Tru64 bits.  VMS is stagnantN because engineers are busy restructuring the code to make it easy to port to a platform nobody wants.  N If you were an HP-UX customer, how would you feel about the upcoming migrationN to IA64 followed by a nebulous major change in the OS to add bits from Tru64 ?L (licencisng/business practices will be most interesting, will existing HP-UXK customers have to pay more when Tru64 bits are shuved onto their systems ?)-   > Our restructuing isuH > around streamlining two companies into a single company, as opposed toJ > simply trying to stop the bleeding - remember even IBM is laying off 15k. > people even without a merger to blame it on.  L Any growth and job created during the .COM era should be considered null andJ void by now. Companies must return to their realistic sizes.  Perhaps IBM,P having more stamina, was able to sustain those excess employees a little longer.  I The danger with HP's merger process is that it will be so concentrated onvK executing the merger that it may forget to adjust its workforce to changingtL demand and by the time the merger is done, it may have a very rude awakening: and find it must continue to downsize for quite some time.  M > The point of my reply, is that people want to blame the HP stock decline on = > the merger.  I'm pointing out that it isn't necessarily so.u  K While it is true that other companies have been hit hard, one has to weight-I the consequences of Carly's folly, a 9 month pregnancy giving a family ofJN products that are all dead end, waiting for IA64. Had she focused on HP and HPN alone, perhaps she could have concentrated on the business instead of fightingK propaganda wars. Oh, lets not forget, prior to the merger announcement, her0N leadership was being questioned because she didn't seem to know how to run HP.  K The merger is simply taking the attention off Carly's leadership and givingaD her perhaps one year to prove herself. After that, all bets are off.  D Remember that Carly cannot claim overwhelming support for her folly.  G > And HP isn't doing that bad, cetainly no worse than Sun (and arguablyl > better). m  N HP is being given a breather due to merger. Sort of like the  honeymoon periodL politicians get just after they are elected. But the time comes when lack of) good numbers will become fatal for Carly.s  I To me, the fact that HP is starting to say the word "Alpha" more and morehB means that they have realised how much damage Stallard's memos andI Carly/Curly's speeches caused and they are now scrambling to save revenustK because they realise that they can't hold their breath until IA64 becomes aa commercial reality.k    H To me, "damage control" applies more to the apparent switch in VMS/ALPHAM attitude than a bona fide change in philosophy that would give VMS/Alpha goodw, standing in corporate HP marketing/strategy.  K And "damage control" implies that things are not all that well at the shop.2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:09:00 GMTm* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlyiA Message-ID: <wfc89.79057$Fw3.3731014@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:9ab89.29$o86.950407@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...   $ > the future of Sparc is making yourA > customers skittish - since it's unlikely that you will fix your  performance5 > problems soon8  K Both you and Andrew are sounding fairly reasonable and differing largely onmF points that are subject to analytical debate more than factual debate.H However, I will suggest that the above statement about SPARC performance$ falls more into the latter category.  D SPARC *already* largely fixed its 'performance problems' with USIII:I SPECint2K base/peak scores of 537/610 are only 13.5%/10.2% below those ofqH the Alphas (at 621/679) it competed with at introduction (and may still:L are the 1.25 GHz EV68Cs shipping yet?).  Furthermore, it gets a minor shrinkH (and IIRC a move to copper) plus dual cores on the chip next year, whichA should both improve its per-core performance and make its per-die:K performance more than adequately competitive in server-style loads (and itse8 per-Watt performance already makes Itanic2 look greedy).  I Sun's only major low-end cost/performance competition is the same as it'snH been all along:  IA32, augmented soon by Hammer (both of which of courseL compete with the other 64-bit entrants at least as effectively).  With AlphaK and PA-RISC at least somewhat off the table, Sun now only need compete withoG POWER4 and Itanic2 (well, I guess MIPS should at least be mentioned) attI higher levels - and so far Sun has appeared more than capable of offeringr* attractive cost/performance in that arena.  L In sum, Sun does not appear to be at any sustained cost/performance, or evenJ absolute performance (in multi-thread server loads), disadvantage comparedK with anything except IA32 and Hammer (too bad Alpha doesn't make that list,oF for non-technical reasons).  Other differences (SPARC's large existingK market, Intel's own market presence in IA32 that *may* translate to successlL with IA64) seem more likely to determine their relative growth over the next 3 years or so.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:32:54 GMTp5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly 2 Message-ID: <GJb89.31$2a6.980017@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D6141C2.1A422180@videotron.ca>...o >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: K >> Market analyst are we?  Frankly, HP is positioned well to take advantagen ofF >> the current market and the strengths of the new company to create a5 >> fomidable competitor when the market turns around.l >eF >I disagree. With HP's enterprise products  ALL on dead end platforms, awaitingJ >IA64, HP will remain stagnant for a number of years in terms of acquiring newtB >customers. It will be only good for supplying existing customers. >t  L Somehow you exclude HP-UX from the enterprise?  While it's true that the VMSG customers will transition to IA64 over time, that doesn't mean we won'tuL aquire new customers - we continue to do so today on Alpha.  Tru64 customersL can move to HP-US today in many cases, and Tru64 features will move to HP-UX  to make it easier in the future.  F >Remember that it isn't just a merger, but also a massive architectureJ >transition. HP-UX is a big nebulous thing since nobody knows what it will lookF >like once/if they intergrate the different-endian Tru64 bits.  VMS is stagnantJ >because engineers are busy restructuring the code to make it easy to port to a >platform nobody wants.a >y  ! That is just pure uninformed FUD.e  L First, HP-UX will remain HP-UX, *and* as with all O/S's - it will evolve andF will gain Tru64 features - VMS isn't the same VMS it was in V3.0.  TheF ability to run bi-endian codes doesn't invalidate the O/S for existingL users, but would simply provide an innovative way to run existing Tru64 codeL without investing in modification simply for endian-ness - nor will all code *care* what the endian-ness is.f  L As for VMS, all work has not stopped for Itanium.  I would say that in fact,I delivering Marvel is our highest priority.  IPF probably follows close onaL it's heels - which is normal - support for new hardware platforms and deviceL options has ALWAYS been our highest priority.  However, we are continuing toD work on UNIX compatability, extended/new file system work, a raft ofJ performance related work - BTW people should try out V7.3-1 to see some of/ the performance work starting to come together.e  J While *you* may have a chip on your shoulder to say Itanium is a "platformK nobody wants" - I've spoken to many customers who don't share that opinion.6I So try not to generalize your personal view to use words like "nobody" ory "everybody".  E >If you were an HP-UX customer, how would you feel about the upcomingt	 migrationfG >to IA64 followed by a nebulous major change in the OS to add bits from? Tru64 ?nG >(licencisng/business practices will be most interesting, will existingn HP-UX.L >customers have to pay more when Tru64 bits are shuved onto their systems ?) >u  K I wouldn't be concerned at all.  You have a seamless migration of code from.L one to another, hardware platforms that are build for both PA-RISC and IA64,L HP helped design the chip to replace PA-RISC, and you'll get ever increasingD performance from IA64.  Again you are throwing out pure FUD that theI addition of Tru64 features would have any effect on licensing or cost for 3 HP-UX - are you privvy to something nobody else is?t   >> Our restructuing isI >> around streamlining two companies into a single company, as opposed totK >> simply trying to stop the bleeding - remember even IBM is laying off 15ke/ >> people even without a merger to blame it on., >sI >Any growth and job created during the .COM era should be considered null" andwK >void by now. Companies must return to their realistic sizes.  Perhaps IBM,nI >having more stamina, was able to sustain those excess employees a little  longer.o >   J Agreed.  If you look at Sun over the last 5 years, you can clearly see the* .COM bubble, and it's crash back to earth.  J >The danger with HP's merger process is that it will be so concentrated onL >executing the merger that it may forget to adjust its workforce to changingC >demand and by the time the merger is done, it may have a very rudes	 awakeningd; >and find it must continue to downsize for quite some time.o >q  I Again - pure FUD.  Sun is downsizing.  IBM is downsizing.  Downsizing hasaG become a way of life - much as I believe that it is wrongheaded.  HP is K building a new business, not just simply merging two companies together.  A J few years down the road we will be able to look back with real data to see@ if 1+1 = 3 or 1+1 = 1.5  -- but right now it's pure speculation.  K >> The point of my reply, is that people want to blame the HP stock declinee on> >> the merger.  I'm pointing out that it isn't necessarily so. >sL >While it is true that other companies have been hit hard, one has to weightJ >the consequences of Carly's folly, a 9 month pregnancy giving a family ofL >products that are all dead end, waiting for IA64. Had she focused on HP and HPF >alone, perhaps she could have concentrated on the business instead of fightingL >propaganda wars. Oh, lets not forget, prior to the merger announcement, herK >leadership was being questioned because she didn't seem to know how to runl HP.a >i  K You *very* specifically compared Sun to HP.  If you run the charts for, saywK the last 6 months, or a year - Sun is even farther down than HP in the lastaK 3 months.  Did the merger take a toll?  I think most people will admit that I it did - but the real test will be to see if 2 years down the road it wasI
 all worth it.i  L >The merger is simply taking the attention off Carly's leadership and givingE >her perhaps one year to prove herself. After that, all bets are off.o >l  K We can all take the cynical viewpoint.  Why not give it a pass for the nextt year to see?  E >Remember that Carly cannot claim overwhelming support for her folly.S >t  K Or overwhelming opposition.  The merger succeeded despite the interest of auG *single* group of investors who controlled a large block of stock - andeI who's agenda was not necessarily that of the rest of the investors.  TakenD them out of the equation - and the merger was passed overwhelmingly.  H >> And HP isn't doing that bad, cetainly no worse than Sun (and arguably >> better).i >nH >HP is being given a breather due to merger. Sort of like the  honeymoon periodJ >politicians get just after they are elected. But the time comes when lack of* >good numbers will become fatal for Carly. >   K So why not stop your idle speculation and FUD, and give it time so that your can make informed observations?-  J >To me, the fact that HP is starting to say the word "Alpha" more and moreC >means that they have realised how much damage Stallard's memos andqJ >Carly/Curly's speeches caused and they are now scrambling to save revenusL >because they realise that they can't hold their breath until IA64 becomes a >commercial reality. >s  G I think not.  When you are rolling out products - like the ES45, or the ? Marvel - you by definition will be talking a lot more about it.l   >.I >To me, "damage control" applies more to the apparent switch in VMS/ALPHArI >attitude than a bona fide change in philosophy that would give VMS/Alpha/ good- >standing in corporate HP marketing/strategy.s > L >And "damage control" implies that things are not all that well at the shop.  E I have no idea what you are talking about.  Decode the riddle please.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:28:11 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>b+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlyaH Message-ID: <fFb89.24244$sa1.18108@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6141C2.1A422180@videotron.ca... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > > Market analyst are we?  Frankly, HP is positioned well to take advantage ofG > > the current market and the strengths of the new company to create ao6 > > fomidable competitor when the market turns around. >tG > I disagree. With HP's enterprise products  ALL on dead end platforms,d awaitingK > IA64, HP will remain stagnant for a number of years in terms of acquiringh new C > customers. It will be only good for supplying existing customers.a >nG > Remember that it isn't just a merger, but also a massive architecturetK > transition. HP-UX is a big nebulous thing since nobody knows what it willW lookG > like once/if they intergrate the different-endian Tru64 bits.  VMS isp stagnantK > because engineers are busy restructuring the code to make it easy to port. to a > platform nobody wants. >TF > If you were an HP-UX customer, how would you feel about the upcoming	 migrationoH > to IA64 followed by a nebulous major change in the OS to add bits from Tru64 ?oH > (licencisng/business practices will be most interesting, will existing HP-UX.J > customers have to pay more when Tru64 bits are shuved onto their systems ?) >  > > Our restructuing isrJ > > around streamlining two companies into a single company, as opposed toL > > simply trying to stop the bleeding - remember even IBM is laying off 15k0 > > people even without a merger to blame it on. >NJ > Any growth and job created during the .COM era should be considered null and L > void by now. Companies must return to their realistic sizes.  Perhaps IBM,J > having more stamina, was able to sustain those excess employees a little longer.e > K > The danger with HP's merger process is that it will be so concentrated onoD > executing the merger that it may forget to adjust its workforce to changingD > demand and by the time the merger is done, it may have a very rude	 awakeninga< > and find it must continue to downsize for quite some time. > L > > The point of my reply, is that people want to blame the HP stock decline on? > > the merger.  I'm pointing out that it isn't necessarily so.i >hF > While it is true that other companies have been hit hard, one has to weightK > the consequences of Carly's folly, a 9 month pregnancy giving a family ofSI > products that are all dead end, waiting for IA64. Had she focused on HP- and HPG > alone, perhaps she could have concentrated on the business instead of@ fightingI > propaganda wars. Oh, lets not forget, prior to the merger announcement,A her0L > leadership was being questioned because she didn't seem to know how to run HP.p >tF > The merger is simply taking the attention off Carly's leadership and givingF > her perhaps one year to prove herself. After that, all bets are off. >nF > Remember that Carly cannot claim overwhelming support for her folly. > I > > And HP isn't doing that bad, cetainly no worse than Sun (and arguablyc > > better). >tI > HP is being given a breather due to merger. Sort of like the  honeymoont periodK > politicians get just after they are elected. But the time comes when lackb of+ > good numbers will become fatal for Carly.  >kK > To me, the fact that HP is starting to say the word "Alpha" more and moreaD > means that they have realised how much damage Stallard's memos andK > Carly/Curly's speeches caused and they are now scrambling to save revenusuK > because they realise that they can't hold their breath until IA64 becomesr aa > commercial reality.t >r >TJ > To me, "damage control" applies more to the apparent switch in VMS/ALPHAJ > attitude than a bona fide change in philosophy that would give VMS/Alpha good. > standing in corporate HP marketing/strategy. >nG > And "damage control" implies that things are not all that well at thes shop.     5 I know lots of people will jump all over me for this:e  ' A press release or two I'd like to see:r  	 Palo Altoc August 19, 2002   B HP announces resignation of Michael Capellas for personal reasons.  < HP announces full-scale development of Alpha EV8 and beyond.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:58:40 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyt, Message-ID: <3D614DE4.816D8318@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote: ) > A press release or two I'd like to see: D > HP announces resignation of Michael Capellas for personal reasons.> > HP announces full-scale development of Alpha EV8 and beyond.    L I would rather see: "After closer inspection of Compaq's books and operatingC philosophies, the board of directors of HP has decided to terminate G employmenmt to Capellas and Winkler for having squandered Compaq's mostvN profitable product lines in favour of unprofitable product lines. But I know I won't see this.   L Next best thing would simply not even bother announcing Capellas's departureI (precedent: when Kenneth Lay was ever so quietly thrown out of the Compaq03 board), and simply announce a new president for HP.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:25:31 GMTf* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlybA Message-ID: <%uc89.81042$2p2.3674279@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:GJb89.31$2a6.980017@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...    > TherH > ability to run bi-endian codes doesn't invalidate the O/S for existingI > users, but would simply provide an innovative way to run existing Tru64w codeI > without investing in modification simply for endian-ness - nor will allr code! > *care* what the endian-ness is.   I Whoa!  Sure, Itanic can run either-endian, and probably even mixed-endianuL processes in a single system.  But are you suggesting that *HP-UX* will bothK be modified to support mixed-endian processes in a single system *and* haveoK FX!32-style facilities that would allow 'existing Tru64 [i.e., Alpha] code'u to run unchanged on it?e  I I suspect that would make Tru64 users a lot more comfortable, but have myeL doubts that either HP-UX enhancement (let alone both of them) has a ghost of@ a chance of appearing - if only because having mixed-endian UnixG applications running on the same system would create a rather confusingjI execution environment for the existing HP-UX customer base (leaving aside0C the significant technical challenges of implementing the features).r  J So if you weren't just throwing out the suggestion without much thought, I; hope you'll expand on why you think it may actually happen.k   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2002 15:40:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlys3 Message-ID: <PImzUyBjCvm9@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  n In article <wfc89.79057$Fw3.3731014@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > K > Sun's only major low-end cost/performance competition is the same as it's J > been all along:  IA32, augmented soon by Hammer (both of which of courseN > compete with the other 64-bit entrants at least as effectively).  With AlphaM > and PA-RISC at least somewhat off the table, Sun now only need compete withRI > POWER4 and Itanic2 (well, I guess MIPS should at least be mentioned) attK > higher levels - and so far Sun has appeared more than capable of offeringa, > attractive cost/performance in that arena. >   @ 	Depends on how and what you measure.  For instance, if for some> 	reason you are inclined to purchase equivalent performing SunA 	versus IBM box to run Oracle, you are going to spend a whole lotf> 	more money on Sun kit (and will you be able to get there with= 	a single U15K?).  If however, you decide a "32 CPU box" fitsf? 	the bill, you will get a much more powerful IBM solution.  As ( 	a for instance:  C http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=102081501a  > 	32 CPUs does over 400K tpmC.  Sun will let you guess at theirF 	numbers as they have decided tpmC is no longer important (they can't  	compete basically).  ; 	Now before Andrew calls me an IBM apologist , keep in mindaB 	Marvel will deliver very good tpmC numbers (similar to Regatta no 	doubt).  @ 	I'm not quite sure what Sun excels at today compared to IBM, ifA 	there is something, I haven't found it (and/or they probably uset< 	twice as many CPUs to get there and if third-party softwareA 	charges per-CPU - i.e. Oracle - they are quite unattractive withi? 	that tagging along).  How could Sun get "better?"  Ship a more:> 	powerful CPU.  They really are quite underpowered compared to! 	Itanium 2, Power4 and EV7 vapor.e  N > In sum, Sun does not appear to be at any sustained cost/performance, or evenL > absolute performance (in multi-thread server loads), disadvantage comparedM > with anything except IA32 and Hammer (too bad Alpha doesn't make that list,  > for non-technical reasons).t  9 	Sun is at a considerable disadvantage versus IBM on manyo8 	per-CPU sensitive metrics (again, Oracle for instance).   				Robs  M "The real point against pacifism is that is is not a cause at all, but only afO  weakening of all causes.  It does not announce any aim; it only announces thatdN  it will never use certain means in pursuing any aim.  It does not define its K  goal; it only defines a stopping place, beyond which nobody must go in ther  search for any goal."#                 -- C.K. Chesterton     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:10:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>H+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlym+ Message-ID: <3D615E9E.B455727@videotron.ca>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:1 > Somehow you exclude HP-UX from the enterprise?    Q HP-UX is also on a dead end architecture called PA-Risc with a migration to IA64.t  N > aquire new customers - we continue to do so today on Alpha.  Tru64 customersN > can move to HP-US today in many cases, and Tru64 features will move to HP-UX" > to make it easier in the future.  N When you force a customer to move, he will also look at other options. IBM andH SUN will be waiting with very open arms. "If you love somebody, set themU free", except just after you have just screwed them with the broken Alpha commitment.   L I do not know what the status is with the Qubec government, but in februaryN 2001, they announced a massive Tru64-Alpha contract to eventually replace mostF of their IT "mainframe" instrastructure.  The poor chap who championedL Digital's cause inside the government to force Compaq to sell those machinesM must have died of combination of heart attack and severe heartburn on June 25 N 2001. If I had been in his shoes, I would have switched allegiance back to IBMK minutes after the June 25 announcements and told the Compaq reps to get theoL hell out of the building and wait for our lawyers to cancel the contract and" SUE Compaq for breach of contract.  K At the time the Qubec govt signed that contract for a long term deploymentsK and supply of Alpha machines, Compaq (as a corporation) knew full well thattM Alpha was to be cancelled in a matter of months and would have been quite far M in its negotiations with Intel. That is utterly dishonest. This is why when ioI see "commitment" and "plan of record", I am disgusted because Compaq is a? company to be distrusted.   N Perhaps Compaq/HP employees underestimate the anger that was generated on JuneK 25. As far as I am concerned, the word "loyalty" no longer exists, even fortJ VMS. If you want to compete, you must sell your own wares, not expect "VMSN loyalists" to do your job for you. And that means also justifying past actions such as June 25. r  N I see Alpha based products as Milk that is just one day before its expiry dateL on the shelves of a supermarket. There are a few for whom the expiry date isH not a concern, and for the rest, they won't touch it unless the price is marked down considerably.r  N > First, HP-UX will remain HP-UX, *and* as with all O/S's - it will evolve and > will gain Tru64 features  ) Look at it from customer's point of view.   J 1- Migrate from PA-Risk to IA64.  For serious shops, this is serious work.M Just because you can recompile a program doesn't make the transition a simplewM matter. There are serious human recourses as well as hardware costs involved.sH (and that assumes all licences are transfered free and a "co-habitation"] period is given for all licenses while the new system is being run in parralel/tested/setup).d  G 2- Deal with the uncertain upgrades of HP-UX once it starts to get veryiM serious bits added/changed. Again, a question of certification and testing totI ensure your apps are not impacted. What about those HP-UX sites currentlym using HP's limited clustering ?   L And lets not talk about Tru64 customers. Are you saying that their migration  to HP-UX will be a non brainer ?  N > As for VMS, all work has not stopped for Itanium.  I would say that in fact,, > delivering Marvel is our highest priority.  I Is it correct to state that EV7 and EV8 were projects that had been begun  under Digital ?o  L > While *you* may have a chip on your shoulder to say Itanium is a "platformM > nobody wants" - I've spoken to many customers who don't share that opinion.e  J Are you saying that some customers like the fact that they will have to goL through the trouble and expense of migrating to new hardware and software toJ please Carly and Curly ? Are those people under the brainwahsed inpressionI that IA64 systems will suddently become as affordable as wintel PCs are ?c  N If you tell them that IA64 will be just as expensive as Alphas, and have theirG performance at best slightly below Alpha, do those customers still looke# forwards to the forced transition ?a  K And if Alpha had continued, how much faster would all those improvements to N VMS have arrived since none of theengineers would be spending time porting theM OS ? Meanwhile, IBM and SUN can continue work on their OS and move ahead muchsK more than VMS can. (Yes, IBM does have the MVS transition to Power 4 on the-1 horizon, and that will hinder MVS's advancements)h      M > I wouldn't be concerned at all.  You have a seamless migration of code fromyN > one to another, hardware platforms that are build for both PA-RISC and IA64,N > HP helped design the chip to replace PA-RISC, and you'll get ever increasing > performance from IA64. t  D For a hobbyist system, you are perfectly correct. But  for a seriousL commercial application, this is far from a simple deed. If you have multipleM applications from different vendors who interact between each other, you needcM to coordinate for all vendors to certify their app at a compatible version onTM the new target platform, and if that version doesn't match what you currently>M run, you need to certify yoursefl that the new version will run properly. AndeN that doesn't even take into consideration all the time/effort and money neededN to negotiate, puchase, setup and install the new replacement boxes and what toA do with the older ones once the new ones are put into production.y    . > Again you are throwing out pure FUD that theK > addition of Tru64 features would have any effect on licensing or cost for 5 > HP-UX - are you privvy to something nobody else is?m  I Can you provide 100% assurance that licencing costs for HP-UX will remainr/ unchanged with the addition of the Tru64 bits ?t    K > Again - pure FUD.  Sun is downsizing.  IBM is downsizing.  Downsizing has4I > become a way of life - much as I believe that it is wrongheaded.  HP isoJ > building a new business, not just simply merging two companies together.  G Sorry to rain on your parade, but if IBM is downsizing, HP will have totK downsize once it is done with the merger. Carly isn't talking about it yet,oM but I suspect soon she will have to. She had factored a pickup in the economye1 (demand for computing) which hasn't occured yet.    K If only Sun was hurting, you could blame Sun. But when both Sun and IBM are.Q hurting, then it would be fairly silly to state that HP is immune to that market.   L > few years down the road we will be able to look back with real data to seeB > if 1+1 = 3 or 1+1 = 1.5  -- but right now it's pure speculation.  L It is very clear that HP will cannabalise half of the combined PC operation.F So HP's growth will come only from the alpha and tandem business.  TheJ elimination of Compaq from the PC market will result in the demand for PCsD being split between all makers. So when HP cuts excess caacity in PC: manufacturing, Dell, IBM, Gateway , Sony etc will benefit.  M > We can all take the cynical viewpoint.  Why not give it a pass for the nextf > year to see?  M Next year, I might not car one bit about HP or VMS. If I got jobs offers fromeI IBM, SUN or HP, HP would be the last one I would want to accept right nownG because that is not an employer I can trust, and I know that I might betJ misinfoirming customers when I say things I have been told to say, knowingC that behind the scenes, HP is planning something totally different.i    M > Or overwhelming opposition.  The merger succeeded despite the interest of a I > *single* group of investors who controlled a large block of stock - andXF > who's agenda was not necessarily that of the rest of the investors.   J That is highly debatable. Seems that majority of HP employees were againstN Carly's folly. Seems also that majority of individual investors who voted wereJ against, and it was only because of last minute blackmail with a few banksK such as Deutche Bank that turned the tide sufficiently. Remember that thosesI institutional investors had stated that they were against the merger, butmL turned out voting in favour of it, (against their own shereholder interests)  in exhange for business from HP.  I > I think not.  When you are rolling out products - like the ES45, or theiA > Marvel - you by definition will be talking a lot more about it.r    N I don't see those as "rolling out", I see those more as finishing work startedL well before. I still see EV7 as a Digital product, not a Compaq or even less HP product.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:16:22 GMTb5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyw3 Message-ID: <W6e89.47$9h6.1100835@news.cpqcorp.net>e  % I apologize for wasting your time JF.s    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3D615E9E.B455727@videotron.ca...r > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:2 > > Somehow you exclude HP-UX from the enterprise? >sJ > HP-UX is also on a dead end architecture called PA-Risc with a migration to IA64. >eF > > aquire new customers - we continue to do so today on Alpha.  Tru64	 customersvJ > > can move to HP-US today in many cases, and Tru64 features will move to HP-UXo$ > > to make it easier in the future. >tL > When you force a customer to move, he will also look at other options. IBM andrJ > SUN will be waiting with very open arms. "If you love somebody, set themK > free", except just after you have just screwed them with the broken Alphat commitment.n > E > I do not know what the status is with the Qubec government, but in  februaryK > 2001, they announced a massive Tru64-Alpha contract to eventually replacer mostH > of their IT "mainframe" instrastructure.  The poor chap who championedE > Digital's cause inside the government to force Compaq to sell those  machinesL > must have died of combination of heart attack and severe heartburn on June 25L > 2001. If I had been in his shoes, I would have switched allegiance back to IBMaI > minutes after the June 25 announcements and told the Compaq reps to get  thehJ > hell out of the building and wait for our lawyers to cancel the contract andl$ > SUE Compaq for breach of contract. > B > At the time the Qubec govt signed that contract for a long term
 deploymentH > and supply of Alpha machines, Compaq (as a corporation) knew full well thatK > Alpha was to be cancelled in a matter of months and would have been quiten farnH > in its negotiations with Intel. That is utterly dishonest. This is why when iK > see "commitment" and "plan of record", I am disgusted because Compaq is at > company to be distrusted.A >cK > Perhaps Compaq/HP employees underestimate the anger that was generated ona JuneI > 25. As far as I am concerned, the word "loyalty" no longer exists, even- for-L > VMS. If you want to compete, you must sell your own wares, not expect "VMSH > loyalists" to do your job for you. And that means also justifying past actionss > such as June 25. >3K > I see Alpha based products as Milk that is just one day before its expirys dateK > on the shelves of a supermarket. There are a few for whom the expiry daten isJ > not a concern, and for the rest, they won't touch it unless the price is > marked down considerably.o >qL > > First, HP-UX will remain HP-UX, *and* as with all O/S's - it will evolve ande > > will gain Tru64 features > + > Look at it from customer's point of view.s > L > 1- Migrate from PA-Risk to IA64.  For serious shops, this is serious work.H > Just because you can recompile a program doesn't make the transition a simpleE > matter. There are serious human recourses as well as hardware costsw	 involved.eJ > (and that assumes all licences are transfered free and a "co-habitation"G > period is given for all licenses while the new system is being run in  parralel/tested/setup).. >>I > 2- Deal with the uncertain upgrades of HP-UX once it starts to get very2L > serious bits added/changed. Again, a question of certification and testing toK > ensure your apps are not impacted. What about those HP-UX sites currently ! > using HP's limited clustering ?i >cD > And lets not talk about Tru64 customers. Are you saying that their	 migrationn" > to HP-UX will be a non brainer ? > J > > As for VMS, all work has not stopped for Itanium.  I would say that in fact,o. > > delivering Marvel is our highest priority. >rK > Is it correct to state that EV7 and EV8 were projects that had been begunn > under Digital ?B >aD > > While *you* may have a chip on your shoulder to say Itanium is a	 "platformcF > > nobody wants" - I've spoken to many customers who don't share that opinion. >nL > Are you saying that some customers like the fact that they will have to goK > through the trouble and expense of migrating to new hardware and software- toL > please Carly and Curly ? Are those people under the brainwahsed inpressionK > that IA64 systems will suddently become as affordable as wintel PCs are ?e >oJ > If you tell them that IA64 will be just as expensive as Alphas, and have theireI > performance at best slightly below Alpha, do those customers still lookg% > forwards to the forced transition ?u >tJ > And if Alpha had continued, how much faster would all those improvements toL > VMS have arrived since none of theengineers would be spending time porting theeJ > OS ? Meanwhile, IBM and SUN can continue work on their OS and move ahead muchI > more than VMS can. (Yes, IBM does have the MVS transition to Power 4 onc thes3 > horizon, and that will hinder MVS's advancements)2 >r >u >gJ > > I wouldn't be concerned at all.  You have a seamless migration of code fromJ > > one to another, hardware platforms that are build for both PA-RISC and IA64,,E > > HP helped design the chip to replace PA-RISC, and you'll get evero
 increasing > > performance from IA64. >yF > For a hobbyist system, you are perfectly correct. But  for a seriousE > commercial application, this is far from a simple deed. If you have  multipleJ > applications from different vendors who interact between each other, you needL > to coordinate for all vendors to certify their app at a compatible version onE > the new target platform, and if that version doesn't match what youn	 currentlyaK > run, you need to certify yoursefl that the new version will run properly.  And I > that doesn't even take into consideration all the time/effort and moneyh neededH > to negotiate, puchase, setup and install the new replacement boxes and what to C > do with the older ones once the new ones are put into production.w >c >g0 > > Again you are throwing out pure FUD that theI > > addition of Tru64 features would have any effect on licensing or costs forh7 > > HP-UX - are you privvy to something nobody else is?  >mK > Can you provide 100% assurance that licencing costs for HP-UX will remainn1 > unchanged with the addition of the Tru64 bits ?m >r > I > > Again - pure FUD.  Sun is downsizing.  IBM is downsizing.  Downsizinge hasIK > > become a way of life - much as I believe that it is wrongheaded.  HP istL > > building a new business, not just simply merging two companies together. >eI > Sorry to rain on your parade, but if IBM is downsizing, HP will have touH > downsize once it is done with the merger. Carly isn't talking about it yet,G > but I suspect soon she will have to. She had factored a pickup in theo economyp2 > (demand for computing) which hasn't occured yet. > I > If only Sun was hurting, you could blame Sun. But when both Sun and IBM  arehK > hurting, then it would be fairly silly to state that HP is immune to thato market.h >aJ > > few years down the road we will be able to look back with real data to seeCD > > if 1+1 = 3 or 1+1 = 1.5  -- but right now it's pure speculation. >aC > It is very clear that HP will cannabalise half of the combined PCf
 operation.H > So HP's growth will come only from the alpha and tandem business.  TheL > elimination of Compaq from the PC market will result in the demand for PCsF > being split between all makers. So when HP cuts excess caacity in PC< > manufacturing, Dell, IBM, Gateway , Sony etc will benefit. > J > > We can all take the cynical viewpoint.  Why not give it a pass for the next > > year to see? >pJ > Next year, I might not car one bit about HP or VMS. If I got jobs offers fromK > IBM, SUN or HP, HP would be the last one I would want to accept right nowdI > because that is not an employer I can trust, and I know that I might becL > misinfoirming customers when I say things I have been told to say, knowingE > that behind the scenes, HP is planning something totally different.  >m > J > > Or overwhelming opposition.  The merger succeeded despite the interest of aK > > *single* group of investors who controlled a large block of stock - andaG > > who's agenda was not necessarily that of the rest of the investors.h > L > That is highly debatable. Seems that majority of HP employees were againstK > Carly's folly. Seems also that majority of individual investors who votedi wereL > against, and it was only because of last minute blackmail with a few banksG > such as Deutche Bank that turned the tide sufficiently. Remember thati thoseiK > institutional investors had stated that they were against the merger, butuC > turned out voting in favour of it, (against their own shereholderu
 interests)" > in exhange for business from HP. >aK > > I think not.  When you are rolling out products - like the ES45, or thenC > > Marvel - you by definition will be talking a lot more about it.  >  > H > I don't see those as "rolling out", I see those more as finishing work startedmI > well before. I still see EV7 as a Digital product, not a Compaq or evenp less
 > HP product.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:56:27 -0400n' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>u+ Subject: RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlytT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266093F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,s  H >>> At the time the Qu=E9bec govt signed that contract for a long term =* deployment and supply of Alpha machines>>>  J What the Govt signed was for a solution that ran SAP really well, had SI =E folks that knew what they were doing and allowed them to meet their =e< future requirements. Most of that RFP was not about techie =D feeds-n-speeds, but like most large RFP's it was mainly many other =; non-technical project, integration and capability concerns.r  J And that is what they will get (and likely lots more as well, but that's = another discussion),  H Do you really think those at the top that signed the contract know the =@ difference between an Alpha or a SPARC or a Power4 or what the =2 difference between HP-UX and Solaris and Tru64 is?  H >>> That is utterly dishonest. This is why when I see "commitment" and =D "plan of record", I am disgusted because Compaq is a company to be = distrusted. <<<o  H So what do you say to Customers that bought lots of IBM disk drives in =B the months leading up to the point where IBM sold its disk drive =D business to Hitachi? Those "at the very top" obviously knew it was =2 happening, but they let the drives be sold anyway.  E Are you wiling to say the same thing about IBM or is that situation =X somehow "different"?  # Reference: (one long url will wrap)iJ http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/breakingnews.asp?ArticleID=3D362= 392 IBM's Hard Drive Unit Lost $423 Million Last Year"  5 http://news.com.com/2100-1001-941051.html?tag=3Dcd_mh ! "IBM sells upstate N.Y. facility"r   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesu Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20  Sent: August 19, 2002 5:10 PMc To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlye     Fred Kleinsorge wrote:0 > Somehow you exclude HP-UX from the enterprise?  J HP-UX is also on a dead end architecture called PA-Risc with a migration = to IA64.  G > aquire new customers - we continue to do so today on Alpha.  Tru64=20eH > customers can move to HP-US today in many cases, and Tru64 features=205 > will move to HP-UX to make it easier in the future.y  H When you force a customer to move, he will also look at other options. =I IBM and SUN will be waiting with very open arms. "If you love somebody, =oG set them free", except just after you have just screwed them with the =h broken Alpha commitment.  G I do not know what the status is with the Qu=E9bec government, but in =nA february 2001, they announced a massive Tru64-Alpha contract to =nG eventually replace most of their IT "mainframe" instrastructure.  The =eI poor chap who championed Digital's cause inside the government to force =aF Compaq to sell those machines must have died of combination of heart =J attack and severe heartburn on June 25 2001. If I had been in his shoes, =H I would have switched allegiance back to IBM minutes after the June 25 =C announcements and told the Compaq reps to get the hell out of the = I building and wait for our lawyers to cancel the contract and SUE Compaq =l for breach of contract.   D At the time the Qu=E9bec govt signed that contract for a long term =I deployment and supply of Alpha machines, Compaq (as a corporation) knew =dJ full well that Alpha was to be cancelled in a matter of months and would =E have been quite far in its negotiations with Intel. That is utterly = H dishonest. This is why when i see "commitment" and "plan of record", I == am disgusted because Compaq is a company to be distrusted.=20   H Perhaps Compaq/HP employees underestimate the anger that was generated =D on June 25. As far as I am concerned, the word "loyalty" no longer =F exists, even for VMS. If you want to compete, you must sell your own =J wares, not expect "VMS loyalists" to do your job for you. And that means =0 also justifying past actions such as June 25.=20  D I see Alpha based products as Milk that is just one day before its =G expiry date on the shelves of a supermarket. There are a few for whom =FI the expiry date is not a concern, and for the rest, they won't touch it =y- unless the price is marked down considerably.a  F > First, HP-UX will remain HP-UX, *and* as with all O/S's - it will=20% > evolve and will gain Tru64 features   ) Look at it from customer's point of view.e  F 1- Migrate from PA-Risk to IA64.  For serious shops, this is serious =A work. Just because you can recompile a program doesn't make the =iJ transition a simple matter. There are serious human recourses as well as =H hardware costs involved. (and that assumes all licences are transfered =G free and a "co-habitation" period is given for all licenses while the =t2 new system is being run in parralel/tested/setup).  I 2- Deal with the uncertain upgrades of HP-UX once it starts to get very =iD serious bits added/changed. Again, a question of certification and =F testing to ensure your apps are not impacted. What about those HP-UX =/ sites currently using HP's limited clustering ?t  D And lets not talk about Tru64 customers. Are you saying that their =* migration to HP-UX will be a non brainer ?  J > As for VMS, all work has not stopped for Itanium.  I would say that in =  2 > fact, delivering Marvel is our highest priority.  E Is it correct to state that EV7 and EV8 were projects that had been =c begun under Digital ?V  E > While *you* may have a chip on your shoulder to say Itanium is a=20IF > "platform nobody wants" - I've spoken to many customers who don't=20 > share that opinion.I  I Are you saying that some customers like the fact that they will have to =,E go through the trouble and expense of migrating to new hardware and =eA software to please Carly and Curly ? Are those people under the =pC brainwahsed inpression that IA64 systems will suddently become as =a affordable as wintel PCs are ?  J If you tell them that IA64 will be just as expensive as Alphas, and have =J their performance at best slightly below Alpha, do those customers still =( look forwards to the forced transition ?  J And if Alpha had continued, how much faster would all those improvements =G to VMS have arrived since none of theengineers would be spending time =uG porting the OS ? Meanwhile, IBM and SUN can continue work on their OS = D and move ahead much more than VMS can. (Yes, IBM does have the MVS =B transition to Power 4 on the horizon, and that will hinder MVS's =
 advancements)       J > I wouldn't be concerned at all.  You have a seamless migration of code =  D > from one to another, hardware platforms that are build for both=20H > PA-RISC and IA64, HP helped design the chip to replace PA-RISC, and=203 > you'll get ever increasing performance from IA64.C  F For a hobbyist system, you are perfectly correct. But  for a serious =E commercial application, this is far from a simple deed. If you have =tH multiple applications from different vendors who interact between each =I other, you need to coordinate for all vendors to certify their app at a =tD compatible version on the new target platform, and if that version =I doesn't match what you currently run, you need to certify yoursefl that =oD the new version will run properly. And that doesn't even take into =B consideration all the time/effort and money needed to negotiate, =J puchase, setup and install the new replacement boxes and what to do with =9 the older ones once the new ones are put into production.u    . > Again you are throwing out pure FUD that theJ > addition of Tru64 features would have any effect on licensing or cost=209 > for HP-UX - are you privvy to something nobody else is?v  D Can you provide 100% assurance that licencing costs for HP-UX will =6 remain unchanged with the addition of the Tru64 bits ?    J > Again - pure FUD.  Sun is downsizing.  IBM is downsizing.  Downsizing=20J > has become a way of life - much as I believe that it is wrongheaded. =20I > HP is building a new business, not just simply merging two companies=20o > together.h  I Sorry to rain on your parade, but if IBM is downsizing, HP will have to =sH downsize once it is done with the merger. Carly isn't talking about it =H yet, but I suspect soon she will have to. She had factored a pickup in =? the economy (demand for computing) which hasn't occured yet.=20n  I If only Sun was hurting, you could blame Sun. But when both Sun and IBM =dJ are hurting, then it would be fairly silly to state that HP is immune to = that market.  J > few years down the road we will be able to look back with real data to =  ? > see if 1+1 =3D 3 or 1+1 =3D 1.5  -- but right now it's pure =w speculation.  C It is very clear that HP will cannabalise half of the combined PC =eD operation. So HP's growth will come only from the alpha and tandem =H business.  The elimination of Compaq from the PC market will result in =D the demand for PCs being split between all makers. So when HP cuts =H excess caacity in PC manufacturing, Dell, IBM, Gateway , Sony etc will = benefit.  J > We can all take the cynical viewpoint.  Why not give it a pass for the =   > next year to see?o  J Next year, I might not car one bit about HP or VMS. If I got jobs offers =F from IBM, SUN or HP, HP would be the last one I would want to accept =J right now because that is not an employer I can trust, and I know that I =H might be misinfoirming customers when I say things I have been told to =G say, knowing that behind the scenes, HP is planning something totally = 
 different.    J > Or overwhelming opposition.  The merger succeeded despite the interest =   > of aG > *single* group of investors who controlled a large block of stock - =s and H > who's agenda was not necessarily that of the rest of the investors.=20  D That is highly debatable. Seems that majority of HP employees were =I against Carly's folly. Seems also that majority of individual investors =hJ who voted were against, and it was only because of last minute blackmail =J with a few banks such as Deutche Bank that turned the tide sufficiently. =G Remember that those institutional investors had stated that they were =rE against the merger, but turned out voting in favour of it, (against =XA their own shereholder interests) in exhange for business from HP.a  H > I think not.  When you are rolling out products - like the ES45, or=20E > the Marvel - you by definition will be talking a lot more about it.t    H I don't see those as "rolling out", I see those more as finishing work =I started well before. I still see EV7 as a Digital product, not a Compaq =l or even less HP product.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:09:39 +0000 (UTC)r- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) ; Subject: Re: Java plugin performance for interactive appleta. Message-ID: <ajrtrj$dmi$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes in article <cc5619f2.0208140731.1e63981a@posting.google.com> dated 14 Aug 2002 08:31:46 -0700:B >So: is it possible the first client is doing 'something wrong' inC >requesting input that is causing the high CPU and BIO usage, since-G >Powerterm, providing much the same fuctionality, has neither problem? nE >Or is it an issue with the current plug-in not being ready for primenD >time?  Both the custom client and Powerterm Java work well under IEF >5.5 with Java, and under IE and Netscape 6.2 on a Mac, so at least itB >doesn't appear to be caused by writing to the MS-bastardized Java	 >changes.t  H I'm nowhere near enough of a Java expert to solve this, but since nobody4 else is saying anything I'll throw in some thoughts.  L Comparing PC-native and Mac-native versions of Java to X-windows versions isF not fair.  X-windows gives you the added flexibility of running on oneD machine and displaying on another, and with that comes a performanceK penalty.  Using that flexibility, you might narrow down the problem betweenlH the VMS client and the Decwindows server by booting Linux on one of yourI other boxes.  Try displaying VMS Java on Linux and Linux Java on VMS.  IfiL one of those makes the problem go away you have another clue.  I have YellowH Dog Linux loaded on my G-3, and I love it, but I think for your 9600 youH might have to use MkLinux.  I assume that OS X includes X-windows, but II haven't verified this.  There's a free X-windows package for MacOS calledtJ MI/X, but performance is awful even on simple things like Decterm windows.  L Also, are you using the "local" Decwindows transport?  In my experience it'sJ pretty wimpy.  We have solved console X-windows problems with "SET DISPLAYE /CREATE/TRANS=TCPIP hostname".  It comes disabled (on the console) byaG default.  Edit SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM if you haven'ta already.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orga> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:50:20 -0400e5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>oC Subject: just recevied a presentation from the Itanium VMS roadshowo* Message-ID: <ajrlmi$qq1$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  E It is an excellent partner presentation that was given at some of theeE roadshows.  The Partner is SCT (SCT is the world's leading technologyo( solutions provider to higher education).  < I am going to send to Ken Farmer for posting on openvms.org.  
 Warm Regards,i sue    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2002 15:36:39 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)M Subject: Network World Article= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0208191436.74151c1f@posting.google.com>n   -----Original Message----- From: 	Skonetski, Susan  S% Sent:	Monday, August 19, 2002 5:16 PMm To:	Skonetski, SusanE Subject:	OpenVMS Pearl - this is a great pearl - Network World Fusionu articleS    E  Folks you are going to love this.  This is an excerpt from HP-Compaql chip away at to-do list articlet  9   Users hope this merging of teams works out, especially l6   as it relates to moving OpenVMS to Itanium platform.  7   "OpenVMS has amazing clustering, is highly reliable,  6   very secure and has the Apache Web server and every ;   compiler users could ever want," says John Eisenschmidt, t9   a systems analyst for the American Association for the  :   Advancement of Science in Washington. "If the migration B   of OpenVMS to Itanium is done correctly it will work out well."   C Complete article: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/0819infra.html,c# "HP-Compaq chip away at to-do list"h    < Many thanks to Kerry Main OpenVMS Ambassador for forwarding.  
 Warm Regards,c   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 04:36:22 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Network World ArticleA Message-ID: <aHj89.89359$Fw3.4123026@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>m  > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:857e9e41.0208191436.74151c1f@posting.google.com...y > -----Original Message----- > From: Skonetski, Susan' > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 5:16 PM  > To: Skonetski, SusanG > Subject: OpenVMS Pearl - this is a great pearl - Network World Fusionn	 > articlen  I Unfortunately, it's nowhere nearly the 'pearl' it would have been had theeL statement come from the highest level in HPQ.  I remember Terry's predictionH here early last May that with the consummation of the merger the famous,L private 'Carly letter' of corporate support (won't use the 'c' word) for VMSJ that a couple of people claimed to have received would become public:  did( anything remotely like that ever happen?   - bill   >g > G >  Folks you are going to love this.  This is an excerpt from HP-Compaqu! > chip away at to-do list articlen > : >   Users hope this merging of teams works out, especially8 >   as it relates to moving OpenVMS to Itanium platform. >n8 >   "OpenVMS has amazing clustering, is highly reliable,7 >   very secure and has the Apache Web server and every < >   compiler users could ever want," says John Eisenschmidt,: >   a systems analyst for the American Association for the; >   Advancement of Science in Washington. "If the migration0C >   of OpenVMS to Itanium is done correctly it will work out well."q >rE > Complete article: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/0819infra.html,3% > "HP-Compaq chip away at to-do list"s >  > > > Many thanks to Kerry Main OpenVMS Ambassador for forwarding. >= > Warm Regards,s >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:50:31 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e  Subject: Re: New missive from HP) Message-ID: <XCe89.2226$aA.106@sccrnsc02>t  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D60516B.C6B795B5@videotron.ca...( > > > note from Rich Marcello that says:F > > > HP and Compaq have had an historic perspective and focus on what; > > > it takes to meet customers' most demanding enterprisel3 > > > requirements in the business-critical market.w >eJ > Since Compaq hasn't been around long enough in enterprise, shouldn't the abovet > have begun with:D > "HP, Digital and Tandem have had an historic perspective...." ????  F After the fact redacting does not accomplish a friggin' thing. Go withL Todd's rant instead: a public hanging of everyone involved in the Alphacide,E free Alphas and other "weparations" to all Windoze slaves, 98 percentw3 discounts on all HP products, and a trip to Tahiti.T  J Apart from the technical commentasry. this newsgroup truly has degenerated2 into a contingent of clueless, whining, crybabies.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:06:03 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>S  Subject: Re: New missive from HP. Message-ID: <fuh89.105244$me6.13237@sccrnsc01>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:fih89.43303$8aG1.26981@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...y > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message% > news:XCe89.2226$aA.106@sccrnsc02...u > >c> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3D60516B.C6B795B5@videotron.ca..., > > > > > note from Rich Marcello that says:J > > > > > HP and Compaq have had an historic perspective and focus on what? > > > > > it takes to meet customers' most demanding enterprisee7 > > > > > requirements in the business-critical market.s > > >dJ > > > Since Compaq hasn't been around long enough in enterprise, shouldn't thec	 > > abovew > > > have begun with:H > > > "HP, Digital and Tandem have had an historic perspective...." ???? > >TJ > > After the fact redacting does not accomplish a friggin' thing. Go withE > > Todd's rant instead: a public hanging of everyone involved in the= > Alphacide,I > > free Alphas and other "weparations" to all Windoze slaves, 98 percente7 > > discounts on all HP products, and a trip to Tahiti.  > >rB > > Apart from the technical commentasry. this newsgroup truly has degeneratedr6 > > into a contingent of clueless, whining, crybabies. >r >- > Terry, >tK > If Digital or Compaq or HP *LISTENED* to 0.01% of the ideas and criticism I > that have been expressed in this n.g., or indeed to the same sentiments I > expressed in off-line e-mail, telephone conversations, and face-to-face I > meetings with execs of the aforementioned companies, I think you of all J > people would agree that OpenVMS (and I dare say Alpha) would be in a farA > more advantageous position in the marketplace than it is today.  >lK > You and I may disagree with the tone of some of the messages, and we bothrH > are a little bit guilty of that same failing from time-to-time, but it doesJ > not change the fact that the points that are raised are often legitimate ande. > do require positive action from VMS's owner. >   J Positive action is indeed necessary, negative tone is contraproductive. InI fact, I have it on VERY reliable authority that a Level One (read MC) was"K ready to scuttle the whole damned VMS thing last fall after all the rantinge and raving.h  5 Obviously this did not happen, which is a Good Thing.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:53:15 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w  Subject: Re: New missive from HPI Message-ID: <fih89.43303$8aG1.26981@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>m  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message# news:XCe89.2226$aA.106@sccrnsc02...s >s< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D60516B.C6B795B5@videotron.ca...* > > > > note from Rich Marcello that says:H > > > > HP and Compaq have had an historic perspective and focus on what= > > > > it takes to meet customers' most demanding enterpriset5 > > > > requirements in the business-critical market.k > >tL > > Since Compaq hasn't been around long enough in enterprise, shouldn't the > above, > > have begun with:F > > "HP, Digital and Tandem have had an historic perspective...." ???? >nH > After the fact redacting does not accomplish a friggin' thing. Go withC > Todd's rant instead: a public hanging of everyone involved in thee
 Alphacide,G > free Alphas and other "weparations" to all Windoze slaves, 98 percente5 > discounts on all HP products, and a trip to Tahiti.u >rL > Apart from the technical commentasry. this newsgroup truly has degenerated4 > into a contingent of clueless, whining, crybabies.     Terry,  I If Digital or Compaq or HP *LISTENED* to 0.01% of the ideas and criticismsG that have been expressed in this n.g., or indeed to the same sentimentsuG expressed in off-line e-mail, telephone conversations, and face-to-facefG meetings with execs of the aforementioned companies, I think you of all H people would agree that OpenVMS (and I dare say Alpha) would be in a far? more advantageous position in the marketplace than it is today.i  I You and I may disagree with the tone of some of the messages, and we both2K are a little bit guilty of that same failing from time-to-time, but it does L not change the fact that the points that are raised are often legitimate and, do require positive action from VMS's owner.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:22:36 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e  Subject: Re: New missive from HP' Message-ID: <3D61BAF5.8516CC93@fsi.net>i   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > [snip]I > Positive action is indeed necessary, negative tone is contraproductive.b  D There's an old proverb that says, "unless you look up you will think! that you are the highest point." p  E Ignoring criticism is equivalent to "death rattle". It epitomizes thehC type of arrogance and ignorance that lead Enron, WorldComm, and thet3 others into their current calamitous circumstances.    > InK > fact, I have it on VERY reliable authority that a Level One (read MC) was M > ready to scuttle the whole damned VMS thing last fall after all the rantings
 > and raving.o  H Typical - sweep the problem under rug rather than solve it. I trust thatH gaining respect and recognition was not the intent. Such an action would) have quite the opposite effect, I'm sure.p  7 > Obviously this did not happen, which is a Good Thing.n  B There's a commercial playing on the radio in Chicago these days. AD mother is concerned because the family dog is gnawing on a dusty oldA fiddle that it found in the family's attic. While she bemoans thewC possibility of the dog "choking on one of the strings" (interestingdD musical pun, if you think about it), she ignores that fact that thisC dog's play toy was - up until that point - a priceless Stradivariusn5 violin. (...and no, I've no idea what the ad is for.)   $ There was a song out many years ago:   Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what   you got 'til it's gone.u They take Paradise and put up a parking lot.   H (There was another long rant here; but, I chose to delete it, discretion  being the better part of valor.)   -- r David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:35:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u  Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D61B913.E1D4B840@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: L > Positive action is indeed necessary, negative tone is contraproductive. InK > fact, I have it on VERY reliable authority that a Level One (read MC) wastM > ready to scuttle the whole damned VMS thing last fall after all the rantingd
 > and raving.   L Then he should have. If all HP is looking for is an excuse to do what it hasS wanted to do all along, then he should do it ASAP and not lie about its intentions.   N If he doesn't care about how customers view his and HP's actions and documents= and would rather give up those customers, then let him do so.f    N Mr Shannon, your statement only re-enforces the image that HP isn't interestedC in making VMS very succesful and sees it as a necessary evil due toh; thesubsidies it provides to less  profitable product lines.t  M Customers should be viewed as assets, not liabilities. VMS customers are madecN to feel like they are a liability. Something which HP must maintain, necessaryL evils, something which prevents HP from really doing what it really wants toM do. HP seems forced to keep those VMS customers because HP needs their money.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 04:23:29 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: New missive from HPA Message-ID: <5vj89.78317$m91.3901321@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message# news:XCe89.2226$aA.106@sccrnsc02...c   ...n  L > Apart from the technical commentasry. this newsgroup truly has degenerated4 > into a contingent of clueless, whining, crybabies.  " Or, in cases like yours, assholes.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 04:31:40 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: New missive from HPA Message-ID: <MCj89.78451$m91.3906991@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:fuh89.105244$me6.13237@sccrnsc01...   ...t  I > Positive action is indeed necessary, negative tone is contraproductive.   I 'Positive action' is what was tried for close to a decade before 6/25/01.tE The results were monumentally ineffective.  Negative tone is not onlysB entirely appropriate at this point, but also the only avenue left.    InaK > fact, I have it on VERY reliable authority that a Level One (read MC) wasrE > ready to scuttle the whole damned VMS thing last fall after all theD rantingd
 > and raving.d  D Which is not all that surprising:  he's clearly an idiot, and such a' reaction would be consistent with that.i  L Since the ranting and raving is not about to stop until such time as cHumPaqE makes some real, as well as visible, effort to clean up the mess they,H created over a year ago, your information will hardly reassure those who* would hope for better times ahead for VMS.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:59:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o" Subject: Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing, Message-ID: <3D61320B.2BF46D05@videotron.ca>  $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote: > 9 > I suspect that corporate taxation is the driving factorv= > behind the convoluted pathway as opposed to tariffs betweene > Point A and Point B.    L No. I suspect total lack of geographical knowledge. They probably designatedG Netherlands to be the official issuer of "international" PAKs (with thedL probable intent of covering europe/middle-east), but someone got too "by theH book" and saw that an order from Canada was considered international and routed it there.  K I see absolutely no reason whatsoever for tax/tarifs to be involved, unless M Compaq/HP are *REALLY* stupid. There are no tarifs between Canada and USA, so L routing something via Netherlands would add tarifs that would not be needed.N Lets not forget that the order was placed in Canada, and that one would assumeE that the invoice would be issued by HP in Canada in Canadian dollars.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:06:00 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>1" Subject: Re: NewHp & VMS LicensingI Message-ID: <csa89.41573$8aG1.24273@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>6  E It probably has something to do with transfer pricing and the need toa minimize corporate taxes.s  K Bet you that there is some other stuff that HP/Compaq has going between theiK Netherlands Antilles or Liechtenstein in order to book the maximum 'profit' I in a low/no-tax jurisdiction, or viewed another way...booking the highestt. cost-of-goods-sold in a high tax jurisdiction.    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6124D8.3A63883D@videotron.ca... > Neil Rieck wrote:oA > > However, inspection of the shipping documents and invoice was  interesting.H > > The certificate was produced by Compaq Computer International in theE > > Netherlands on Thursday, imported into Massachusessets (there areg customs.4 > > documents that say so), then exported to Canada. >y2 > Has Compaq/HP heard of the information age yet ? >eL > Digital was able to generate licences in Kanata (Ottawa). Was this ability
 > shut down ?p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:12:58 -0400u' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>f" Subject: RE: NewHp & VMS LicensingT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266093A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,v  2 Re: licensing in Canada - not much has changed.=20  D Imho, the chances of any invoice going to a Canadian Customer in any* non-Canadian currency is slim to none. =20  F As an additional fyi - language issues also dictate that some invoices+ in Canada must be in French in some area's.o  
 Reference:- http://www.compaq.com/products/software/info/i> http://www.compaq.com/products/software/info/swl_contacts.html   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=202 Sent: August 19, 2002 2:00 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com." Subject: Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing    $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote: >=20G > I suspect that corporate taxation is the driving factor behind the=20dG > convoluted pathway as opposed to tariffs between Point A and Point B.e    A No. I suspect total lack of geographical knowledge. They probablye
 designatedG Netherlands to be the official issuer of "international" PAKs (with thehH probable intent of covering europe/middle-east), but someone got too "by theiH book" and saw that an order from Canada was considered international and routed it there.  D I see absolutely no reason whatsoever for tax/tarifs to be involved, unlessE Compaq/HP are *REALLY* stupid. There are no tarifs between Canada ande USA, sobD routing something via Netherlands would add tarifs that would not be needed.oG Lets not forget that the order was placed in Canada, and that one wouldt assumeE that the invoice would be issued by HP in Canada in Canadian dollars.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:26:14 GMT : From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <John.Gemignani@youknow.where>/ Subject: Re: NFS Server configuration questions - Message-ID: <3D6135E7.2F9E9A68@youknow.where>n   Sharon Guthrie wrote:( > Q >         I've been fighting with NFS for a couple weeks now, and have managed to'M > grind myself down to having specific questions.  I did spend some time lastnQ > week on the phone with Software Support, but I don't want to drive them bananas L > by continually re-opening the log for each question I come up with.  Also,M > given that I'm sure these are RTFM questions and I don't have a copy of the Q > TCPIP/UCX manual and I'm getting the 404-file-not-found error when I try to nabg? > the online version.  First my specifics, then my question(s).n > 7 > Specifics:  VMS 7.2-1, TCPIP 5.0A - ECO 2, on a DS20Ey > P > Question:  I was browsing through the "Ask the Wizard" archives for All ThingsO > NFS, and found one very helpful entry.  At the bottom, the Wiz suggests a wayg > to configure the proxies:i > K > >  4: Map the NFS and nobody users, user fred, and map the PC-client userb# > >     to an OpenVMS user vmsuser:  > > / > >       add proxy ucx$nfs /uid=0/gid=1/host=*t4 > >       add proxy ucx$nobody /uid=-2/gid=-2/host=*/ > >       add proxy fred /uid=100/gid=15/host=*t= > >       add proxy vmsuser /uid=nnn /gid=nnn /host="pc.name"k > N >         I understand setting a proxy for nfs and nobody.  Why do you need toO > set one for "fred" AND some user "vmsuser"?  It seems that "vmsuser" is meant Q > to be a template/example, but he specifies it so I don't think he means it thate. > way.  I would think "fred" *IS* the vmsuser.    C 	The example here shows you that you define ucx$nfs and ucx$nobody.lH 	The example fred is just a regular user (nothing special, but the entryC 	for vmsuser is for a PC.  fred is a user who may be on one or more  hosts.F 	The PC user "vmsuser" usually comes in from one PC (PCs *usually* but 	not always) have one user.     P >         Also, I halfway understand the use of the gid/uid.  Is it correct thatG > when the pc user maps to the fileshare, typing a username/password toiM > authenticate with NFS, that his communication stream then uses that uid/gidaM > pair to access the data?  Are there any tips for assigning those other than J > keeping them unique?  For example, should they all be in the same group?    C 	When you authenticate yourself using a username and password using F 	PCNFS, you get a UID and GID back as a result.  NFS exchanges uid andD 	gid information, not username and password.  They do not need to beD 	in the same group unless you want them to be able to share files toE 	some degree -- similar rules that you would apply to your VMS users.e  N >         In my case, the pc users are not also VMS users.  It's also a closedO > system.  Would it still be terrible in terms of security to just make all thei" > pc users authenticate as Nobody?  E 	You want to create another identity and map that.  NOBODY has a verye specificH 	use in the server, in that it attaches that ownership to things that it cannotG 	otherwise identify to the client.  So, it is possible that while filesw ares@ 	reported as being owned by nobody, in reality they are owned by
 ~somebody~2 	but that ~somebody~ is not in the proxy database.  0 >  Do I REALLY need to have a proxy for each pc?  D 	No, that's what /host=* is for.  Each PC could obtain a uid and gid fromG 	PCNFS using the same username and password.  Define a proxy record fort 	that user with /host=*.  N >         Also, in some version of UCX there is apparently a command to changeE > the value of the cache timer:  sysconfig -r nfs tcp_idle_timeout=30bQ > Coworkers who've done this before tell me this works, but I haven't found it tocK > work on any of the versions of UCX I've been fighting with.  (5.0A, 5.1)    C 	The tcp timer is not available in V5.0 because tcp support for NFSv wasn'tF 	released until V5.1.  The idle timer is used to close TCP connectionsH 	that haven't sent NFS requests in that period of time.  This forces the: 	client to reconnect when it wants to make an NFS request.   > The N > cache timer is apparently set high and causes a problem for our application.  H 	Cache timer?  Which one?  Are you talking about the vfs vnode_age timer4 	which is set to 120 seconds to keep files accessed?  L > Is there any way to change it with another command if this one won't work?N >         Thanks for any help you can offer.  This has turned into the Project > From Hell.  :-)E  I 	In my experience I find that users who are not familiar with Unix often rF 	can't feel comfortable with NFS. The whole Unix authentication stuff, forJD 	example, compared to VMS is close but no cigar.  You really have to thinkwH 	it out -- it's not as simple to just add entries without thinking about> 	the values that you are using, as the numbers have particular significanceG 	on Unix systems.  In your case you have two non-Unix systems duking its outr4 	using NFS, each trying to accomodate NFS' Unixisms.   	I hope this helps.  >  > Sharon   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2002 19:40:53 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS tar* Message-ID: <ajrhk5$onn$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  o In article <Cce79.28775$8aG1.493@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Yong Liu" <fdu9774@rogers.com> writes:a  C :Is there an UNIX tar equivalent in OpenVMS? Or something like zip?'  @   Please acquire and please read the frequently asked questions!A   You will find the answer to this question in the FAQ -- and the >   answers to many other questions.  (Why is reading the FAQ an?   advantage to you?  Because you get your answer more quickly.)-  I :A related issue, how can you delete a directory tree (with files and subd :directories inside) ?  ?   DELETE, most commonly.  Repeatedly, or by specifying the pathoC   several times.  There are simple tools that provide this ability.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:15:20 GMT.. From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@attbi.com.fubar>. Subject: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE- Message-ID: <c_e89.82122$983.91911@rwcrnsc53>p  H I followed the thread that described how to count records using the PIPE facilityK and thought that the pipe command would make a good subroutine or small DCLs sub-program.  K I put a few extra lines of code together with the original DCL found in thee	 NG and it-J appeared to work fine until I ran across a file name that seemed to "break it".  0 Here is the routine (with some test code added):   $!; $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inquire/nopunct p1 "Enter Filename: "  $ CALL COUNT  'p1' $ show symbol $status  $ show symbol record_count $ EXIT $!---------------------------- $COUNT:  SUBROUTINE  $!  $! Usage:  CALL count <filename> $! $! Description* $!   Returns: RECORD_COUNT (global symbol)) $!   Returns $status=2 if file not found., $! $! $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO CEXIT $! $ PIPE   := "" $ SEARCH := "" $ WS := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT $! $ test = f$search(p1)  $ If test .eqs. "" $ Then $     ws ""i? $     ws "****************************************************"r2 $     ws " %SUBCOUNT-E-FNF, FILE NOT FOUND: ''p1'"? $     ws "****************************************************"o $     ws ""8 $     GOTO nfexit- $ EndIfi $!/ $ RECORD_COUNT == 0  ! init global return value $ $ ws " Counting Records in ''p1'..."2 $ PIPE ( SEARCH 'p1' "" /noout/stat/match=nand | -1            SEARCH SYS$PIPE "records searched" | -oD            ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$ &$TMP$ ) -(        ) ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,"A ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; DEASSIGN/JOB $TMP$m $! $ WS ""s9 $ WS "%SUBCOUNT-I-CNT,''F$Fao(" Records counted in ''p1':. !AS",RECORD_COUNT)'" $! $CEXIT:  $ EXIT $status $! $NFEXIT: $ EXIT 2 ! no file found for P1  $   ENDSUBROUTINES  % Here is the output from a failed run:a  ' $ @sub_count DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESSi2  Counting Records in DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS...4 %DCL-W-TKNOVF, command element is too long - shortenH  \( SEARCH DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS "" /noout/stat/match=nand | SEARCH SYS$PIPtE E "records searched" | ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$ 
 &$TMP$ ) )   ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,". ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; DEASSIGN/JOB $Tm  ; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000003& 8248, PC=0000000000110001, PS=7FFAC130; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000000& 000C, PC=0000000000010020, PS=00000000  K If I rename the file DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS  to DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.DAT,-! the procedure runs without error.o  " Anybody know what's going on here?  L FYI - OpenVMS 7.2-1 Alpha, ES40, all "1" rated patches except for latest RMS patch...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 05:13:37 GMTa0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE> Message-ID: <5ek89.13701$7V6.43217@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   Yep,  L By the time your PIPE command is expanded by DCL it is too long.  A constantC source of aggravation is the limitation DCL places on line lengths.t  " Here is some possible workarounds:  K     o Replace the symbol P1 with a short logical name, so it doesn't expando inside the PIPE.L     o The substatement "RECORD_COUNT == ..." should be entered on a separate line. I     o The substatement "DEASSIGN/JOB ..." should be entered on a separate' line.e   Matt.m --= -------------------------------------------------------------h OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAi= -------------------------------------------------------------b    9 "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@attbi.com.fubar> wrote in messaget' news:c_e89.82122$983.91911@rwcrnsc53...wJ > I followed the thread that described how to count records using the PIPE
 > facilityI > and thought that the pipe command would make a good subroutine or small0 DCL2 > sub-program. > I > I put a few extra lines of code together with the original DCL found inD thej > NG and it3L > appeared to work fine until I ran across a file name that seemed to "break > it". > 2 > Here is the routine (with some test code added): >n > $!= > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inquire/nopunct p1 "Enter Filename: "d > $ CALL COUNT  'p1' > $ show symbol $statusi > $ show symbol record_count > $ EXIT  > $!---------------------------- > $COUNT:  SUBROUTINE- > $!" > $! Usage:  CALL count <filename> > $! > $! Description, > $!   Returns: RECORD_COUNT (global symbol)+ > $!   Returns $status=2 if file not found.b > $! > $! > $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO CEXIT > $! > $ PIPE   := "" > $ SEARCH := "" > $ WS := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT > $! > $ test = f$search(p1)  > $ If test .eqs. "" > $ Then
 > $     ws ""vA > $     ws "****************************************************" 4 > $     ws " %SUBCOUNT-E-FNF, FILE NOT FOUND: ''p1'"A > $     ws "****************************************************"a
 > $     ws ""h > $     GOTO nfexite	 > $ EndIfe > $!1 > $ RECORD_COUNT == 0  ! init global return valuei& > $ ws " Counting Records in ''p1'..."4 > $ PIPE ( SEARCH 'p1' "" /noout/stat/match=nand | -3 >            SEARCH SYS$PIPE "records searched" | -tF >            ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$ &$TMP$ ) -* >        ) ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,"C > ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; DEASSIGN/JOB $TMP$  > $!	 > $ WS ""l; > $ WS "%SUBCOUNT-I-CNT,''F$Fao(" Records counted in ''p1':a > !AS",RECORD_COUNT)'" > $!	 > $CEXIT:e > $ EXIT $status > $!
 > $NFEXIT:! > $ EXIT 2 ! no file found for P1  > $   ENDSUBROUTINE- >-' > Here is the output from a failed run:  >0) > $ @sub_count DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESSo4 >  Counting Records in DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS...6 > %DCL-W-TKNOVF, command element is too long - shortenJ >  \( SEARCH DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS "" /noout/stat/match=nand | SEARCH	 > SYS$PIPeG > E "records searched" | ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$  > &$TMP$ ) )" >  ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,"0 > ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; > DEASSIGN/JOB $Ti >i= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtualv > address=000000000003( > 8248, PC=0000000000110001, PS=7FFAC130= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  > address=000000000000( > 000C, PC=0000000000010020, PS=00000000 >i5 > If I rename the file DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS  toi DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.DAT,t# > the procedure runs without error.e >n$ > Anybody know what's going on here? >oJ > FYI - OpenVMS 7.2-1 Alpha, ES40, all "1" rated patches except for latest RMS 
 > patch... >e >h >t >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:51:09 -0000- From: sword7@speakeasy.org1 Subject: Re: TS10/VAX Updates - DELQA now worked.</ Message-ID: <um3bktd16q9i8b@corp.supernews.com>i  3 Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@clearsource.net> wrote:.J > Someone mentioned that there is a bug in TCP/IP V5.0.  After finding theJ > workarround I can make telnet connections to my "VAX" with very reliableK > results.  I've had several sessions going with no problems.  The trick is C > to set the terminal type to something VMS knows.  For example, if 4 > telnetting from a Linux console from a bash shell:   > export TERM=vt102d  K > does wonders.  I hope to eventually get DECwindows running over TCP/IP totG > a Linux Xserver and set up a print queue to print to a Linux attachedoK > printer.  Anyone know if there are any howto's written on these subjects?tK > I think I've found all the info I need to set up DECwindows but I haven'te4 > started digging for info on printing to Linux yet.   Kevin,  E Thank you for information.  I will put that in my ReadMe doc file for ? next update release.  I tried that and it worked great!   I hadiF set 'export TERM=vt102' and successfully logged into my TS10 emulator.G When I entered telnet command, OpenVMS on TS10 instantly responsed with2G Username: prompt.  When I typed a 500-block file like TCPIP$CONFIG.COM,NG I can't read them because they are scrolling in transwarp mode (almost 3E warp 10) or slipstream mode. :-) It took only few seconds to display o/ entire a 500-block text file on telnet session.y  * Yes, I confirmed that a bug in TCPIP v5.0.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- ., Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:09:00 +0100-( From: Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com>, Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 not starting up8 Message-ID: <2323mu0i9qu5pa570mah0fhf16eqghiqi9@4ax.com>  F >I think I may be able to help you, but can anyone confirm that a cardG >labelled 54-19145-AU and 5019144-01 AIP2 5419145 4 MEG MEM is from thea& >MS44 series? (Or if not, what is it?) >e- >I've got a load here looking for good homes.s >t >Chris (London, UK)t >eB thanks for the kind offer, but alas no good unless MS44-AAs for my VaxStation3100 m76.h   greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:59:34 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> / Subject: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk. ' Message-ID: <3D615C36.9FF91760@aaa.com>h   Hi all.e) Just to check that I'm "on track", is thea following scenario OK ?e  + - AS1200 system with shadowed system disk : E   DSA10:     Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       4934070   613   1 7   $1$DKB0:   ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA10:)r7   $1$DKC0:   ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA10:)l  6 DKB0: is the BOOTDEV_DEF (or DEFBOOT_DEV or whatever).3 DKC0: is the "second" disk in the DSA10 shadow set.-  ; Goal : to upgrade one of the disk and still having a way ofn5 backing out to the old version without going to tape.N   My current plan :o  - 1. Dismount DKC0: from the DSA10: shadow set.n  2 2. Shutdown and reboot from the DKC0: system disk.6    This will give me a DSA10: with just DKC0:, right ?   3. Upgrade DKC0: to 7.3-1.  9 4. If all is OK with 7.3-1 => Re-mount DKB0: into DSA10:.s1    This with start a schadow copy DKC0: --> DKB0:I;    and end up with a finished, shadowed 7.3-1 system, not ?n  6 5. If problems with 7.3-1 => Shutdown and reboot using<    DKB0: (The "old" 7.2-1 system). This will create a DSA10:%    shadowset with just DKB0:, right ?g2    Now, will re-mounting DKC0: into DSA10: start aC    shadow copy B => C so I'll end up with a shadowed 7.2-1 system ? <    Or will the shadow logic deside that the "old" DKB0: disk>    is older then the new (7.3-1) DKC0: disk and start the copy    B <= C instead ?      Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:14:18 GMT ! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nzu3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk. & Message-ID: <3d6188c4.1815319040@news>  , On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:59:34 +0200, Jan-Erik1 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:    >Hi all.* >Just to check that I'm "on track", is the >following scenario OK ? >n, >- AS1200 system with shadowed system disk :F >  DSA10:     Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       4934070   613   18 >  $1$DKB0:   ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA10:)8 >  $1$DKC0:   ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA10:) >s7 >DKB0: is the BOOTDEV_DEF (or DEFBOOT_DEV or whatever).h4 >DKC0: is the "second" disk in the DSA10 shadow set. > < >Goal : to upgrade one of the disk and still having a way of6 >backing out to the old version without going to tape. >f >My current plan : > . >1. Dismount DKC0: from the DSA10: shadow set. > 3 >2. Shutdown and reboot from the DKC0: system disk.P7 >   This will give me a DSA10: with just DKC0:, right ?  >  >3. Upgrade DKC0: to 7.3-1.e >e: >4. If all is OK with 7.3-1 => Re-mount DKB0: into DSA10:.2 >   This with start a schadow copy DKC0: --> DKB0:< >   and end up with a finished, shadowed 7.3-1 system, not ? >t7 >5. If problems with 7.3-1 => Shutdown and reboot usingi= >   DKB0: (The "old" 7.2-1 system). This will create a DSA10: & >   shadowset with just DKB0:, right ?3 >   Now, will re-mounting DKC0: into DSA10: start asD >   shadow copy B => C so I'll end up with a shadowed 7.2-1 system ?= >   Or will the shadow logic deside that the "old" DKB0: diskd? >   is older then the new (7.3-1) DKC0: disk and start the copy  >   B <= C instead ? >h@ No, I'm pretty sure the Logic understands that the device you've! booted from is the latest member.m  B So, the plan is sound.  Just check there are no mount commands for DSA10 anywhere.t     >t
 >Best Regardss >Jan-Erik Sderholmm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:18:04 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.t+ Message-ID: <3D61A6D9.7A44FAD@videotron.ca>i  " rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:5 > >2. Shutdown and reboot from the DKC0: system disk.n9 > >   This will give me a DSA10: with just DKC0:, right ?t  	 Correct. d  F But if you wish to be paranoid, you could also disable the system diskJ shadowing in sysgen and set the default boot device to the particular hardI drive. Not sure about this particular upgrade, but consider some that didrJ multiple reboots, so having the more "vanilla" system drive would simplifyL things should problems occur during upgrade. Not sure such paranoia would be worth the extra time/trouble.   M In any event, commenting out any of the mount commands that add drives to the + system drive shadowset would be a big must.I  5 > >   Now, will re-mounting DKC0: into DSA10: start aiF > >   shadow copy B => C so I'll end up with a shadowed 7.2-1 system ?  M Should be. As you crete DSA10 with the 7.2 system, that new shadowset becomesNN more current than the contents of the 7.3 hard drive that was offline, so whenI the later is added to DSA10, it becomes a target of a copy, not a source.    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2002 19:17:48 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VS3100 questionss* Message-ID: <ajrg8s$onn$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  d In article <d0141774.0208151028.37aff211@posting.google.com>, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes:e :hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<ajds8h$gsb$2@web1.cup.hp.com>... + :VMS/LMF Charge Information for node xxxxxxo1 :This is a VAXserver 3100, hardware model type 60t :,5 :Wait a minute... VAXserver??? What's that all about?. :What is this thing?  C   You likely don't have a workstation keyboard connected, thereforei.   the system identifies itself as a VAXserver.  A :SHOW CONFIG doesn't exist at the console and SHOW DEV just listss :drives.  E   Ok, I went back and read the manual for this series VAXstation box.d   The command is:   
   >>> TEST 50l  G :Surely there must be a SHOW DEV/FULL xxx on VMS that will tell me what9 :kind of board it is?a     No, there is not.    :BTW, the CPU is KA42-A V1.3  D   Please see the list of KA-series CPU code numbers available in theC   FAQ.  Based on the KA42-A, you have a VAXstation 3100 model 30 ordD   a VAXstation 3100 model 40.  With the reported two rows of cooling@   side-slots, this box is definitely a VAXstation 3100 model 30.  F   If this is a hobbyist system, please install OpenVMS VAX V7.3.  Yes,E   I'd clobber everything on the target disk; I'd re-install.  OpenVMSe5   Hobbyist license details are referenced in the FAQ.y    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2002 16:36:23 -07000 From: chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk (Chris Doran)> Subject: Re: [very OT] Fund transfer spam: where is the issue?= Message-ID: <948f0720.0208191536.2a2d0925@posting.google.com>d  l "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com> wrote in message news:<ajpf6k$ovu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...: > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message# > news:3D5FC713.E6095DB1@Free.fr...1# > > Got this today. What is behind?d > >t > > [quote]s > > Subject: GBADAMOSI) > > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:42:43 -0700h7 > > From: "MR ABIODUN GBADAMOSI" <gbadamosi2@email.com>  > > CC:   easycad@free.fr  > > N > > I am Mr abiodun gbadamosi, Bank Manager of chartered Bank, Lagos, Nigeria. >  > [snip] > A > This is a minor variant of a annual letter that most businessese? > in the U.S. receive.  I've received it at my business address < > probably 10 times.  It's obviously a scam, but some people> > probably fall for it, because they keep on sending them out.A > It looks like now they are using e-mail rather than snail mail.e  E They're still using smail mail -- I get a few of these each year that(F way as well as bi higher-tech. The latest batch of letters came rubberD stamped "Warning suspect material" presumably applied by some postalF authority en route. At one point the scammers made their own stamps onD a colour photocopier, hence philatelists are very interested in this/ scam, as a Google search for "Nigerian Scam" onU* rec.collecting.stamps.discuss will reveal.   Chris*   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.457 ************************0  ! init global return va                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                