1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 21 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 460       Contents: .CLD questions.  Re: .CLD questions.  Re: .CLD questions.  Re: .CLD questions.  Re: .CLD questions. . ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/2332 RE: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233# Re: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedure) < Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion< Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion< Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion* Cheapest way to repair/replace tape drivesM DCL du jour: TL891 labels  (was: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS) P Re: DCL du jour: TL891 labels  (was: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex0 FA Digital Books and Manuals - ENDS TONIGHT 8/21' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap  Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper+ Re: Hoff, what is the status of your book ? - Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c? - Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c? - Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c? " Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly http server relay/redirection . Installing new RF36 Hard disk in VAX 4000 105A@ Re: Licenses (was Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha]...)) Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  OpenVms / Vax -- free download" Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download! oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1 % Re: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1 / Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS / Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS / Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS / Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS / Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE C Re: Proposal for DECUS US (was: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ? Proposal for DECUS US (was: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap  Roadshow update  Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Size of logical name table ?  Re: Size of logical name table ?  Re: Size of logical name table ?  Re: Size of logical name table ? Re: tcpware smtp Re: tcpware smtp  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?  RE: total VMS newbie - pointers?  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?  Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?  VAX/Alpha Basic example programs$ Re: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs$ RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs$ RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs$ RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs$ RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs Re: VMS in M$ ad Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion * Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.* Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.$ Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:09:57 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> Subject: .CLD questions.. Message-ID: <3D632EB4.4320B097@pressenter.com>  4 Have a CLD question.... and no, this isn't homework.  A I want to create a .CLD so the program has the follwing behavior.   C /FILE=filespec    { filespec other than default. Always an option } E /HTML             { switch to format output in html format. Only good  /LIST } 4 /CREATE           { switch to create new data file }1 /OUTPUT=filespec  { filespec to send output to. } H /LIST[=username]  { to output a user, if only one is specified. Or all }2                   { if no username is specified. }   /MODIFY=username/field=newvalue   H                   { command to modify a given user's data. "username" isG                   { required. At least one /field=newvalue is required.  } G                   { "field" is a field in the data file, "newvalue" is   } 1                   { the new value to set it at. }   4 /MODIFY, /LIST, and /CREATE are mutually exlclusive.% /CREATE prohibits /HTML, and /OUTPUT.       . Here's the .CLD file I've come up with so far.       DEFINE VERB DBACCESSB         IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS"         NOPARAMETERS?         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) A         QUALIFIER OUTPUT, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) &         QUALIFIER CREATE, NONNEGATABLE$         QUALIFIER HTML, NONNEGATABLE;         QUALIFIER MODIFY, NONNEGATABLE,SYNTAX=MODIFY_SYNTAX ?         QUALIFIER LIST, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) +         DISALLOW ANY2(CREATE, MODIFY, LIST) "         DISALLOW CREATE AND OUTPUT          DISALLOW CREATE AND HTML   DEFINE SYNTAX MODIFY_SYNTAX ?         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE)          QUALIFIER MODIFY, 0 NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)         QUALIFIER USERNAME, 0 NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)         QUALIFIER PASSWORD, 0 NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)         QUALIFIER EMAIL,0 NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)H         QUALIFIER PRIV, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,LIST,TYPE=PRIV_VALS)E         QUALIFIER EXPIRE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$DATETIME)    DEFINE TYPE PRIV_VALS           KEYWORD ADMIN, NEGATABLE         KEYWORD BASE, NEGATABLE !         KEYWORD CREATE, NEGATABLE "         KEYWORD DISABLE, NEGATABLE      # The datafile is structured as such:   ! username:       char[some-length] ! password:       char[some-length] ! email:          char[some-length]  privileges:     bitmap expire date:    datetime     How does it look?   $ When I wish to create an obj module:  ! $ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLD      I get the message:  G %CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating an  object file   B I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don't understand. + It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH:    Quote:   ROUTINE routine-name  C      Symbol that specifies a routine the command calls to create an  object( module from the command definition file.  E      The routine-name provides the name of a routine that is executed  when CLI$DISPATCH is called.   =      If you do not specify a routine, no default is provided.    Unquote:  F What routine? A function within my program? I just don't get this one.  H I knew nothing about this stuff this morning... I think I've done pretty good6 to get this far.... This was my first "crack at it..."     Thanks for any input,    Lyndon     --  G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:38:34 +0100 4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: .CLD questions.B Message-ID: <1029933516.16050.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  K If you want to create your own dcl  command, handled by the image dbaccess, J use "set com/table=sys$share:dcltables/out=newdcltables" or whatever (help) set command), and a .cld like you've got.   E If dbaccess has its own internal command interface (like cms, sysman, F sysgen, ftp etc) then you need to specify routines to handle differentJ commands, and use cli$dispatch (see help cli_routine) to dispatch to them.8 You then include the cld object when you link the image.   I think you want the former.   Chris   ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message ( news:3D632EB4.4320B097@pressenter.com...6 > Have a CLD question.... and no, this isn't homework. > C > I want to create a .CLD so the program has the follwing behavior.  > E > /FILE=filespec    { filespec other than default. Always an option } G > /HTML             { switch to format output in html format. Only good 	 > /LIST } 6 > /CREATE           { switch to create new data file }3 > /OUTPUT=filespec  { filespec to send output to. } J > /LIST[=username]  { to output a user, if only one is specified. Or all }4 >                   { if no username is specified. } > ! > /MODIFY=username/field=newvalue  > J >                   { command to modify a given user's data. "username" isI >                   { required. At least one /field=newvalue is required.  > } H >                   { "field" is a field in the data file, "newvalue" is > } 3 >                   { the new value to set it at. }  > 6 > /MODIFY, /LIST, and /CREATE are mutually exlclusive.' > /CREATE prohibits /HTML, and /OUTPUT.  >  >  > 0 > Here's the .CLD file I've come up with so far. >  >  >  > DEFINE VERB DBACCESSD >         IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS" >         NOPARAMETERSA >         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) C >         QUALIFIER OUTPUT, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) ( >         QUALIFIER CREATE, NONNEGATABLE& >         QUALIFIER HTML, NONNEGATABLE= >         QUALIFIER MODIFY, NONNEGATABLE,SYNTAX=MODIFY_SYNTAX A >         QUALIFIER LIST, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) - >         DISALLOW ANY2(CREATE, MODIFY, LIST) $ >         DISALLOW CREATE AND OUTPUT" >         DISALLOW CREATE AND HTML >  > DEFINE SYNTAX MODIFY_SYNTAX A >         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE)  >         QUALIFIER MODIFY, 2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) >         QUALIFIER USERNAME, 2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) >         QUALIFIER PASSWORD, 2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) >         QUALIFIER EMAIL,2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)J >         QUALIFIER PRIV, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,LIST,TYPE=PRIV_VALS)G >         QUALIFIER EXPIRE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$DATETIME)  >  > DEFINE TYPE PRIV_VALS " >         KEYWORD ADMIN, NEGATABLE! >         KEYWORD BASE, NEGATABLE # >         KEYWORD CREATE, NEGATABLE $ >         KEYWORD DISABLE, NEGATABLE >  >  > % > The datafile is structured as such:  > # > username:       char[some-length] # > password:       char[some-length] # > email:          char[some-length]  > privileges:     bitmap > expire date:    datetime >  >  > How does it look?  > & > When I wish to create an obj module: > # > $ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLD  >  >  > I get the message: > I > %CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating an 
 > object file  > D > I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don't
 > understand. - > It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH:  >  > Quote: >  > ROUTINE routine-name > E >      Symbol that specifies a routine the command calls to create an  > object* > module from the command definition file. > G >      The routine-name provides the name of a routine that is executed  > when > CLI$DISPATCH is called.  > ? >      If you do not specify a routine, no default is provided.  > 
 > Unquote: > H > What routine? A function within my program? I just don't get this one. > J > I knew nothing about this stuff this morning... I think I've done pretty > good8 > to get this far.... This was my first "crack at it..." >  >  > Thanks for any input,  >  > Lyndon >  >  > --I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.  >  > J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:54:40 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)  Subject: Re: .CLD questions.. Message-ID: <ak02ig$i8d$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes in article <3D632EB4.4320B097@pressenter.com> dated Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:09:57 -0500: >DEFINE VERB DBACCESS C >        IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS"   " >$ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLD >  >I get the message:  > H >%CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating an >object file > C >I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don't  >understand., >It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH:  G There are 2 ways to use CLI, and you're using elements of both of them.   J 1.  Creating a command at the DCL level, you use "SET COMMAND" without theD /OBJECT qualifier.  Then inside your program (specified in the IMAGEK clause), you can use CLI$PRESENT, CLI$GET_VALUE, etc. to read the parameter  values.   C 2.  Creating a command to use inside your application, you use "SET J COMMAND/OBJECT" and link the .OBJ file in with the program.  Then when youK call CLI$DISPATCH, it "calls" your CLI which in turn calls whatever ROUTINE  you specify.  L Your DBACCESS.CLD is designed for method 1, right?  So forget about creating2 an object file from the CLI -- you don't need one.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 02 05:54:36 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com  Subject: Re: .CLD questions.( Message-ID: <+YsYhdyjjBdD@cpva.saic.com>  . In article <3D632EB4.4320B097@pressenter.com>,1  Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes: 6 > Have a CLD question.... and no, this isn't homework. > C > I want to create a .CLD so the program has the follwing behavior.  > E > /FILE=filespec    { filespec other than default. Always an option } G > /HTML             { switch to format output in html format. Only good 	 > /LIST } 6 > /CREATE           { switch to create new data file }3 > /OUTPUT=filespec  { filespec to send output to. } J > /LIST[=username]  { to output a user, if only one is specified. Or all }4 >                   { if no username is specified. } > ! > /MODIFY=username/field=newvalue  > J >                   { command to modify a given user's data. "username" isI >                   { required. At least one /field=newvalue is required.  > } I >                   { "field" is a field in the data file, "newvalue" is   > } 3 >                   { the new value to set it at. }  > 6 > /MODIFY, /LIST, and /CREATE are mutually exlclusive.' > /CREATE prohibits /HTML, and /OUTPUT.  >  >  > 0 > Here's the .CLD file I've come up with so far. >  >  >  > DEFINE VERB DBACCESSD >         IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS" >         NOPARAMETERSA >         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) C >         QUALIFIER OUTPUT, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) ( >         QUALIFIER CREATE, NONNEGATABLE& >         QUALIFIER HTML, NONNEGATABLE= >         QUALIFIER MODIFY, NONNEGATABLE,SYNTAX=MODIFY_SYNTAX A >         QUALIFIER LIST, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) - >         DISALLOW ANY2(CREATE, MODIFY, LIST) $ >         DISALLOW CREATE AND OUTPUT" >         DISALLOW CREATE AND HTML >  > DEFINE SYNTAX MODIFY_SYNTAX A >         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE)  >         QUALIFIER MODIFY, 2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) >         QUALIFIER USERNAME, 2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) >         QUALIFIER PASSWORD, 2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) >         QUALIFIER EMAIL,2 > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)J >         QUALIFIER PRIV, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,LIST,TYPE=PRIV_VALS)G >         QUALIFIER EXPIRE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$DATETIME)  >  > DEFINE TYPE PRIV_VALS " >         KEYWORD ADMIN, NEGATABLE! >         KEYWORD BASE, NEGATABLE # >         KEYWORD CREATE, NEGATABLEr$ >         KEYWORD DISABLE, NEGATABLE >  >  > % > The datafile is structured as such:  > # > username:       char[some-length]X# > password:       char[some-length]o# > email:          char[some-length]V > privileges:     bitmap > expire date:    datetime >  >  > How does it look?  > & > When I wish to create an obj module: > # > $ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLDa >  >  > I get the message: > I > %CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating anp
 > object filee > D > I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don't
 > understand.t- > It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH:o >  > Quote: >  > ROUTINE routine-name > E >      Symbol that specifies a routine the command calls to create an  > object* > module from the command definition file. > G >      The routine-name provides the name of a routine that is executeds > when > CLI$DISPATCH is called.r > ? >      If you do not specify a routine, no default is provided.  > 
 > Unquote: > H > What routine? A function within my program? I just don't get this one. > J > I knew nothing about this stuff this morning... I think I've done pretty > good8 > to get this far.... This was my first "crack at it..." >  >  > Thanks for any input,E >  > Lyndon >  >  > -- hI > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.e >  > J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.  % Does your program call CLI$DCL_PARSE?   I If your goal is to create a new DCL verb (DBACCESS) then you should leave F off the /OBJECT qualifier when you use SET COMMAND. The result will beF the insertion of your new command structure into your process' copy ofG the DCLTABLES. This would seem to be the case since your .CLD specifiescI an associated IMAGE. In this instance DCL does the parsing of the commandnG line prior to activating your image. Your program would likely use onlyc' calls to CLI$PRESENT and CLI$GET_VALUE.o  J If the .CLD file does not specify an associated image then the expectationF would be that you are creating an OBJect file that will be LINKed withG your application's .OBJ. In this instance your program does the commanduI parsing by calling CLI$DCL_PARSE (to have DCL parse the command) and thenrJ calls CLI$DISPATCH to execute some associated routine (defined within your9 program). CLI$PRESENT and CLI$GET_VALUE may also be used.    -- i - Jimu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:46:30 GMTp From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGe Subject: Re: .CLD questions.0 Message-ID: <00A12C77.B54875F5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <3D632EB4.4320B097@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:?5 >Have a CLD question.... and no, this isn't homework.e >pB >I want to create a .CLD so the program has the follwing behavior. >tD >/FILE=filespec    { filespec other than default. Always an option }F >/HTML             { switch to format output in html format. Only good >/LIST }5 >/CREATE           { switch to create new data file }a2 >/OUTPUT=filespec  { filespec to send output to. }I >/LIST[=username]  { to output a user, if only one is specified. Or all }r3 >                  { if no username is specified. }s >o  >/MODIFY=username/field=newvalue >hI >                  { command to modify a given user's data. "username" is H >                  { required. At least one /field=newvalue is required. >}H >                  { "field" is a field in the data file, "newvalue" is  >}2 >                  { the new value to set it at. } >-5 >/MODIFY, /LIST, and /CREATE are mutually exlclusive.-& >/CREATE prohibits /HTML, and /OUTPUT. >5 >0 > / >Here's the .CLD file I've come up with so far.  >j >: >L >DEFINE VERB DBACCESSDC >        IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS"o >        NOPARAMETERS @ >        QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE)B >        QUALIFIER OUTPUT, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE)' >        QUALIFIER CREATE, NONNEGATABLEm% >        QUALIFIER HTML, NONNEGATABLEL< >        QUALIFIER MODIFY, NONNEGATABLE,SYNTAX=MODIFY_SYNTAX@ >        QUALIFIER LIST, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING), >        DISALLOW ANY2(CREATE, MODIFY, LIST)# >        DISALLOW CREATE AND OUTPUTn! >        DISALLOW CREATE AND HTMLF >s >DEFINE SYNTAX MODIFY_SYNTAX@ >        QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) >        QUALIFIER MODIFY,1 >NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)  >        QUALIFIER USERNAME,1 >NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)  >        QUALIFIER PASSWORD,1 >NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)r >        QUALIFIER EMAIL,E1 >NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)eI >        QUALIFIER PRIV, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,LIST,TYPE=PRIV_VALS)MF >        QUALIFIER EXPIRE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$DATETIME) >E >DEFINE TYPE PRIV_VALS! >        KEYWORD ADMIN, NEGATABLEE  >        KEYWORD BASE, NEGATABLE" >        KEYWORD CREATE, NEGATABLE# >        KEYWORD DISABLE, NEGATABLEN >T >E > $ >The datafile is structured as such: > " >username:       char[some-length]" >password:       char[some-length]" >email:          char[some-length] >privileges:     bitmapA >expire date:    datetimeI >  >  >How does it look? >N% >When I wish to create an obj module:T > " >$ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLD >  >L >I get the message:B >VH >%CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating an >object file >UC >I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don'tE >understand., >It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH: >B >Quote:R >I >ROUTINE routine-name) > D >     Symbol that specifies a routine the command calls to create an >object ) >module from the command definition file.E >IF >     The routine-name provides the name of a routine that is executed >when$ >CLI$DISPATCH is called. >V> >     If you do not specify a routine, no default is provided. >A	 >Unquote:  > G >What routine? A function within my program? I just don't get this one.  >aI >I knew nothing about this stuff this morning... I think I've done prettyd >good 7 >to get this far.... This was my first "crack at it..."r >l >s >Thanks for any input, >  >Lyndone  F The /OBJECT version of the SET COMMAND is intended to create an objectF definition of your .CLD file so that it can be linked into an image.  E You need to specify the "Module" clause which will provide the object D a "handle" whereby you can reference it.  You need "Routine" clausesD to tell the CLI$DISPATCH which internal routine will handle the verbC and or alternate syntaxes.  You need to pass the name of your tablemD to CLI$DCL_PARSE along with a command line or a routine (such as theE LIB$GET_INPUT routine) to obtain a command line in your program.  Thee@ CLI$DCL_PARSE must be performed prior to invoking CLI$DISPATCH.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMy            u5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:03:32 +0200w, From: aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus)7 Subject: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233mD Message-ID: <aus-2108021203320001@wvia20.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>  G My new-to-me Alphastation 400 4/233 came without any manuals. I've beenoF told that the Alpha is set to boot WinNT which can be jumpered to boot OpenVMS.  8 Please point me to the jumper configuration for OpenVMS?   -- .B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:54:39 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>s; Subject: RE: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233oK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA0E@rlghncst964.usps.gov>a  4 It's been a while since I messed with one of these, 4 so I'm doing this strictly from memory and I may be  completely mistaken:  2 I *think* that these machines are half-flash; that3 they can either run the ARC console (for NT) or the * SRM console (for VMS or OSF) but not both.  3 If the machine is set to boot NT, there will be an s7 option in the setup menu that will say something about C switching to the VMS console.n  5 Also, when you get to the SRM console, you might needm6 to type the command <set os_type ""> (if it was set to* boot NT, this would have been set to "nt".   Hope this helps,   WWWebb       -----Original Message-----5 From: "Hans M. Aus" [mailto:aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de]h( Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:03 AM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 7 Subject: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233     G My new-to-me Alphastation 400 4/233 came without any manuals. I've been.F told that the Alpha is set to boot WinNT which can be jumpered to boot OpenVMS.  8 Please point me to the jumper configuration for OpenVMS?   --B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:12:12 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedure)8 Message-ID: <f5b7muggsttdk8j3h7pjonhdhq2o5l9qf0@4ax.com>  3 On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:54:01 -0400, "Brian Tillman"i, <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  @ >>I am stuck with a bl**dy Outlook account which they believe isH >>god-given.  At least I am connecting from a VMS box via Mozilla.  It'sJ >>like leaving the champagne drinking crowd and having to imbibe sulphuric >>acid.I > M >My complete sympathy.  In a couple of short months, I'll be in the positioinBL >in which you've found yourself: having to use Outlook.  Moreover, our Email: >will be outsourced to HP!  No more internal mail routers. > L >If anyone can tell me how to get Exchange to deliver mail to me VMS accountD >and still appear to be from the person who actually sent it, I'd be
 >grateful.  B If you setup IMAP on Exchage it will be readable by Mozilla's IMAPE client. Other alternative is to setup Exchange to do local SMTP relay  to the VMS box.E -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 15:03:46 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>E Subject: Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversionE- Message-ID: <87ofbw1ynh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>F  , "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:  + > On 19 Aug 2002 at 14:18, Nic Clews wrote:T  ? > > Hum. Err I need to be delicate saying this, because we've a E > > special evaluation of this product going ahead at the moment, but F > > the power supply in the "system who's maker shall remain nameless,7 > > but could be relatively easy to guess" has failed !    C > That's why I recommend "server class" PC's.  Dual power supplies,hD > hardware RAID, etc.  If the client buys an unbrand clone, it could > be a problem...  His problem.   ) But you can't buy Prioris's anymore... :(e   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.T@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:33:06 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>E Subject: Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversion ) Message-ID: <3D635042.E56A30F3@127.0.0.1>a   Bill Gunshannon wrote: >   K > > If you turn off the power, Win2K won't leak memory.  It's actually veryo! > > stable in that configuration.t >  > I stand corrected. > : > I have tested and verified that this is in fact correct. > I > Now, if I could just convince people here.........                  :-)   < How stable is it if you don't install it in the first place?  C I would have thought a 10 foot high pile of shrink wrapped softwarer would be quite unstable... :->   -- n? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesb nclews at csc dot comf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:10:13 +0200-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> E Subject: Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha] OpenVMS conversionR' Message-ID: <3D6358F5.A5A8AD3D@aaa.com>8  ( No problem, just add a couple of threads to the pile...  * And the shrink would make a fine isolation( between the different OS "layers", not ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm   Nic Clews wrote: >  > > > How stable is it if you don't install it in the first place? > E > I would have thought a 10 foot high pile of shrink wrapped softwareE  > would be quite unstable... :-> >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese > nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 08:09:13 -0700% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)r3 Subject: Cheapest way to repair/replace tape drivesc= Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0208210709.58bf862d@posting.google.com>J  9 Four of our Alphas have external SCSI tape drives, TLZ06.A  : I have been paying $325 to UNIDATA for a fixed rate repair or replace service.a  " Any suggestions for a cheaper way?   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 06:24:40 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)yV Subject: DCL du jour: TL891 labels  (was: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS)= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0208210524.7124bede@posting.google.com>o  B Sorry if this appears again: I had sent this "DCL du jour" earlier- in the week but never saw it actually appear..  B This might be of use, sorry if lines are wrapped (my employer doesB not have a news feed, so I don't have one to/from my VMS boxen, so I have to use Google).  5 It does 3 of 9 barcode - easy to modify for whatever.j   $! DLTLABELo $! --------c $<P $ read/prompt="File containing label,description pairs, blank for prompting: " -     sys$command label_file $  $ if label_file .nes. "" $ then  $   input_source = "label_input"8 $   open/read/error=bad_file 'input_source' 'label_file' $ else  $   input_source = "sys$command"O $   write sys$output "Enter label,description pairs, terminate with blank line"o $ endifS $  $ label_count = 0  $ 
 $read_labels:e $wI $ read/end_of_file=end_read/prompt="label,description: " 'input_source' -[     label_data $ if label_data .nes. "" $ then! $   label_count = label_count + 1 ) $   label_data_'label_count' = label_dataM0 $   if label_count .lt. 33 then goto read_labels $ endifo $n
 $end_read: $i2 $ if label_file .nes. "" then close 'input_source'! $ if label_count .eq. 0 then exitv $e $ i = 0r $ barcode3of9_set = "" $ barcode3of9_table = -eF     " nwwnnnwnn$nwnwnwnnn%nnnwnwnwn*nwnnwnwnn+nwnnnwnwn-nwnnnnwnw" + -F     ".wwnnnnwnn/nwnwnnnwn0nnnwwnwnn1wnnwnnnnw2nnwwnnnnw3wnwwnnnnn" + -F     "4nnnwwnnnw5wnnwwnnnn6nnwwwnnnn7nnnwnnwnw8wnnwnnwnn9nnwwnnwnn" + -F     "AwnnnnwnnwBnnwnnwnnwCwnwnnwnnnDnnnnwwnnwEwnnnwwnnnFnnwnwwnnn" + -F     "GnnnnnwwnwHwnnnnwwnnInnwnnwwnnJnnnnwwwnnKwnnnnnnwwLnnwnnnnww" + -F     "MwnwnnnnwnNnnnnwnnwwOwnnnwnnwnPnnwnwnnwnQnnnnnnwwwRwnnnnnwwn" + -F     "SnnwnnnwwnTnnnnwnwwnUwwnnnnnnwVnwwnnnnnwWwwwnnnnnnXnwnnwnnnw" + -     "YwwnnwnnnnZnwwnwnnnn" $  $make_barcode_array: $N3 $ barcode_char = f$extract(i, 1, barcode3of9_table) 2 $ barcode3of9_set = barcode3of9_set + barcode_charE $ barcode3of9_'f$cvui(0, 8, barcode_char)' = "''f$extract(i + 1, 9, -G     barcode3of9_table)'" $R $ i = i + 10D $ if i .lt. f$length(barcode3of9_table) then goto make_barcode_array $N" $ open/write output_ps dltlabel.ps $A" $ define/user sys$output output_ps $ type sys$input
 %!PS-Adobe %%Title: DLTLABELL %%BoundingBox: 0 0 820 576
 %%EndCommentsE %%EndPrologD 20 810 translate 0.25 0.25 scaleA /Times-Bold findfont 50 scalefont setfont $D
 $ xorigin = 0 
 $ yorigin = 0A $O
 $do_label: $T: $ label = "*" + f$edit(f$extract(0, 6, f$element(0, ",", -/     label_data_'label_count')), "UPCASE") + "*"TM $ description = f$extract(0, 24, f$element(1, ",", label_data_'label_count'))V0 $ if description .eqs. "," then description = "" $ label_count = label_count - 1  $  $ i = 0P
 $ tag = "" $ xbarpos = 85 + xorigin $ ybarpos = -75 - yoriginR $A	 $do_char:L $  $ char = f$extract(i, 1, label)LJ $ if f$locate(char, barcode3of9_set) .eq. f$length(barcode3of9_set) then -     char = " ", $ barcode = barcode3of9_'f$cvui(0, 8, char)'! $ tag = tag + f$fao("!3AS", char)  $m $ b = -1 $ j = 0s $- $do_bar: $r' $ if f$extract(j, 1, barcode) .eqs. "n"a $ then $   barsize = 4s $ else $   barsize = 10 $ endife $ N $ if b then write output_ps "newpath ", barsize, " setlinewidth ", xbarpos + -H     barsize / 2, " ", ybarpos, " moveto ", xbarpos + barsize / 2, " ", -,     ybarpos - 92, " lineto stroke closepath" $s
 $ b = .not. b  $ xbarpos = xbarpos + barsized $ j = j + 1s $ if j .lt. 9 then goto do_bar $w $ xbarpos = xbarpos + 4  $ i = i + 1 - $ if i .lt. f$length(label) then goto do_chare $iO $ write output_ps 110 + xorigin, " ", -65 - yorigin, " moveto (", tag, ") show" C $ write output_ps 20 + xorigin, " ", -210 - yorigin, " moveto (", -r     description, ") show" G $ write output_ps "newpath 8 setlinewidth ", xorigin, " ", - yorigin, -iP     " moveto ", 635 + xorigin, " ", - yorigin, " lineto ", 635 + xorigin, " ", -     -75 - yorigin, " lineto "tJ $ write output_ps xorigin, " ", -75 - yorigin, " lineto ", xorigin, " ", -L     - yorigin, " lineto ", xorigin, " ", -167 - yorigin, " moveto ", 635 + -,     xorigin, " ", -167 - yorigin, " lineto "L $ write output_ps 635 + xorigin, " ", -240 - yorigin, " lineto ", xorigin, -D     " ", -240 - yorigin, " lineto ", xorigin, " ", -167 - yorigin, -     " lineto stroke closepath" $y $ xorigin = xorigin + 700  $t $ if xorigin .gt. 1400 $ then $   xorigin = 0L $   yorigin = yorigin + 270o $ endif  $ * $ if label_count .gt. 0 then goto do_label $  $ write output_ps "showpage" $ write output_ps "%%EOF"t $l $ close output_ps  $ exit $ 
 $bad_file: $r: $ write sys$error "Unable to open input file ", label_file $ exit $c $!++ $! $! FACILITY: $! $!      DLTLABEL $! $! ASBTRACT: $!L $!      Produce barcode labels for DLT tapes used in the TL891 mini library.H $!      Each line of input (either by a file, or sys$command if the fileE $!      specification is blank) is the text that forms the barcode (6pG $!      characters maximum - is trimmed and converted to upper case), aeK $!      comma, and a short description up to 24 characters to be printed atnL $!      the bottom of the label. Characters in the label that do not conformH $!      to the code 39 barcode set are converted to spaces. A blank lineL $!      terminates input inquiry. Postscript output is generated in the fileJ $!      DLTLABEL.PS suitable for printing on the Postscript laser printer.J $!      The user can then cut the labels (cutting off as much of the blackI $!      edges as possible) from the page printed and insert them into thet' $!      slot provided on the DLT media.t $!J $!      This procedure is available for free distribution. It is therefore* $!      always worth what you paid for it. $! $! ENVIRONMENT:  $! $!      User command procedure.e $!
 $! AUTHOR: $!C $!      R.P. Young                                      19-AUG-2002f $! $! MODIFICATIONS:T $! $!--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:14:10 +0200s- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>tY Subject: Re: DCL du jour: TL891 labels  (was: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMSs' Message-ID: <3D63CA62.B26FAD07@Free.fr>l   Patrick Young wrote: > D > Sorry if this appears again: I had sent this "DCL du jour" earlier/ > in the week but never saw it actually appear.a > D > This might be of use, sorry if lines are wrapped (my employer doesD > not have a news feed, so I don't have one to/from my VMS boxen, so > I have to use Google). > 7 > It does 3 of 9 barcode - easy to modify for whatever./ > 
 > $! DLTLABEL 
 > $! --------r  
 DTL label ???    :-)m   D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:46:14 +0000 (UTC)R  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full DuplexF* Message-ID: <ajvcvm$jg2$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  2 Glen Martin <glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:G : I have a couple of old AlphaServer 2100a systems running OpenVMS v6.2IF : which appear to have DE101 NICs (at least that is what is stamped onA : the outside of the cards). CLUE CONFIG lists them only as TulipTF : adapters. I've been trying to set them to Full-Duplex mode, both viaF : LANCP and via the EWA0_MODE environment variable within SRM, but theF : cards aren't going to full (the switch to which they connect are setF : to Full Duplex). Am I fighting an uphill battle? Do these cards evenF : support Full Duplex? Thus far, I've been unable to find this info at : Compaq's website....   I was curious, so I checked:   These are an 8-bit ISA card./ I don't think you'll do 10baseT FDX with them..A  - Why are you subjecting your 2100s to them? :PT   D. --  % " I don't get mad.... I get stabby. "( - William "Fat Tony" Williams.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 10:16:41 -07001 From: glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Glen Martin)N- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex < Message-ID: <6e2f14f4.0208210916.96257db@posting.google.com>  R mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote in message news:<ajvcvm$jg2$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>... > I was curious, so I checked: >  > These are an 8-bit ISA card.1 > I don't think you'll do 10baseT FDX with them..r > / > Why are you subjecting your 2100s to them? :P   B NICs that came with the boxen. Would love to some DE500 cards intoD them, but it is hard to convince management to spend money upgrading@ these systems, especially since they will likely be taken out of service next year...   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2002 16:06:34 GMT! From: swmoretp@aol.com (SWMORETP)C9 Subject: FA Digital Books and Manuals - ENDS TONIGHT 8/21b9 Message-ID: <20020821120634.13148.00002544@mb-fg.aol.com>   G We have these DEC books and manuals for sale on eBay. They end tonight,- Wednesday 8/21. K You can do a search by the item number you are interested in or by seller:  N swmoretp@aol.com  to see the full list. The end time is US west coast time. WeM ship anywhere and ship multiple wins together by cheaper Book Rate/Media MailI to save on shipping.3 VAX-11 780 Architecture Handbook, 1977-78 Digital  g 2046407756  Aug-21 20:12:20i- VAX/VMS Internals & Data Structures Digital  k 2046408480  Aug-21 20:14:49e- Local Area Networks Solutions Guide Digital  n 2046408841  Aug-21 20:16:52e$ Programming in VAX-11 C by Digital   2046409292  Aug-21 20:19:02 + DECchip 21064 Microprocessor Book Digital  c 2046409747  Aug-21 20:21:17 / Digital Technical Journal, Vol 4, No 4 by DEC  " 2046410263  Aug-21 20:24:08 / Digital Technical Journal, Vol 5, No 2 by DEC  h 2046410734  Aug-21 20:26:13a/ Digital Technical Journal, Vol 8, No 4 by DEC  o 2046411144  Aug-21 20:28:06o/ Digital Technical Journal, Vol 9, No 3 by DEC  U 2046412602  Aug-21 20:34:41dC Excellent PDP, VAX History/Info Book, Computer Engineering by DEC  o 2045653004  Aug-21 20:40:47-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 03:11:08 -0400o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap, Message-ID: <3D633D0C.6060802@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagen( > news:3D62F171.2010802@tsoft-inc.com... > A >>>"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in messagey >>>tI >>>>I've come to the conclusion that it would take a new OS platform, one J >>>>designed for modern technology but compatible with the core VMS valuesJ >>>>of careful design effort up-front, engineering excellence, intoleranceF >>>>of any hint of things like data corruption or security weaknesses,A >>>>extreme reliability, excellent documentation, seamless upwardW9 >>>>compatibility, and so forth, to actually replace VMS.c >>>>* >>How would such a system differ from VMS? >> > L > a)  It would jettison 25 years' worth of cruft.  Not only has the state ofN > the art advanced considerably during those 25 years, but the approaches thatI > were optimal 25 years ago are often not the approaches that are optimalcM > today (or for tomorrow).  Both the file system and RMS are prime candidates F > for a complete re-work (I'm sure there are other equally significantB > examples, but those are the two I'm best qualified to evaluate).    Q Cruft could be worked out of an existing OS.  I will agree on approaches, due to sN memory availability, as well as other issues.  While the functionality of RMS O would still be quite useful, I'm not in any position to defend  internals.  If -3 there is new technology that can be applied, great.u    J > b) In the process, it would streamline the system considerably:  a greatK > many tweaks that were necessary back in the days of very tight memory and F > disk space are completely irrelevant today (but still clutter up the > interfaces).    J It would be much easier to replace such, as required, rather than have to K replace everything at once.  If you're willing to follow a solid design, a WQ modular design, and maybe have to sacrifice backward compatibility to get rid of a' cruft, it still could be done with VMS.m    ' > c) It would be owned by someone else.R     Jury is still out on that one.  ) >>Why couldn't VMS be the starting point?f >> > N > Because of its current owner.  HP may not yet have been completely ruined byL > its management, but as long as that management remains in place there's noF > hope for VMS (nor much hope for HP as a whole) - and there's also noI > indication that HP would offer up VMS to some other party to work with.     L Maybe, I'm not optimistic anymore, but there are some dedicated people doingP what they can. It's what they will be allowed to do that will define the future.  J >>I can see that VMS isn't 'popular' right now, and things that get 'hype' >>	 > usually  > J >>get followed regardless of worth.  Is it your idea that only a 'new' OS,J >>proceeded by plenty of fanfair, could gain widespread acceptance.  I can >> > seet > F >>that, (Microsoft and windoz proved it), but I do have a problem withF >>re-inventing the wheel, no matter how much it's happening in 'modern >>
 > computing'.- > J > Unfortunately, the VMS wheel, while sturdy, is no longer anywhere nearlyJ > round (at least according to current definitions of what 'round' means).N > And other wheels may be rounder but aren't as sturdy.  It's not so much thatN > anything needs reinventing as that the existing state of the art needs to beG > applied across an entire system - and VMS, Unix, and Windows all fall H > sufficiently short of this goal that starting from scratch may well beF > easier than trying to modify one of them to fit (and also avoids the5 > political issues of strict backward compatibility).     O Backward compatibility isn't necessary, as long as people are not left hanging RK in the breeze.  VMS could split, it actually already has, the VAX stuff is HQ pretty static.  A version to support current users who have to have the backward  Q compatibility, and a new version that gets extensively re-designed and re-worked.   M Concepts are fine, but I'd like to se a definitive list of what's wrong with 0K VMS.  I'm not sure what current definitions of 'round' are.  Is there some   details for this?h     > A >>One positive thing that would be possible is avoiding 'C'.  :-)  >> > I > Gee.  I guess PDP-11 systems were complete crap, then, being written inaK > assembler and all.  So, for that matter, is much of VMS (being written in. > C).3    Q Wrong guess there.  I've always liked MACRO, 10, 11, and 32.  You have to use it tN a bunch to remain decent at it, but it does allow for flexibility.  It's also J expensive with respect to programming time, and that's what people aren't L willing to put up with anymore.  But I just don't like C, and I'm not alone.    J > I'd be a lot more concerned with who was writing the code (and how theirH > management organized their priorities) than in what language they were > using.    
 Of course.     > J >>In what environment would such an OS exist?  Intel?  Other?  Both?  All? >> > J > Portability across different hardware platforms is not only a virtue butM > relatively inexpensive (both in development and at run time), if planned upoB > front.  And there's no lack of experience in how to go about it.    N But that requires an implementation language, or languages, that is available > everywhere.  Too bad the best candidate for that is such shit.     > H >>It sure could be fun for some OS developers if they can get someone to >> > fund > 7 >>their fun.  I'm having a hard time seeing such occur.  >> >  > Me too, unfortunately. >  > - bill >  >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2002 12:52:56 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap6 Message-ID: <ak02f8$1eidsb$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  , In article <3D628A8F.ACC8B4A4@videotron.ca>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N >                     So DECUS could be revived with a true mandate to support > the ex-Digital products.    L Would that include the PDP-11 and it's still active (and very current) OSes?   > G > Returning to "DECUS" on a worldwide basis would be a very good thing.e   I agree.   bill   -- 0J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:01:31 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> 0 Subject: RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rapK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA0F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>s  6 It would save me the expense of buying new shirts for  the first couple of years.   :^)l   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----5 From: "Bill Gunshannon" [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]l( Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 8:52 AM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 0 Subject: RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap    , In article <3D628A8F.ACC8B4A4@videotron.ca>,4      JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:F >                     So DECUS could be revived with a true mandate to support_ > the ex-Digital products.  L Would that include the PDP-11 and it's still active (and very current) OSes?   > G > Returning to "DECUS" on a worldwide basis would be a very good thing.t   I agree.   bill   --J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:32:52 -0500n/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>w0 Subject: RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rapT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C7F8@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  K Well, Terry is a sitting member of the Encompass board.  Terry what are thenK obstacles to making this happen?  I thought that there might have been someT( difficulty with who owns the name DECUS?   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**c     > -----Original Message-----B > From: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC [mailto:wwebb1@email.usps.gov]* > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 8:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap >  >  > 8 > It would save me the expense of buying new shirts for  > the first couple of years. >  > :^)u >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----7 > From: "Bill Gunshannon" [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]%* > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 8:52 AM > To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 2 > Subject: RE: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap >  > . > In article <3D628A8F.ACC8B4A4@videotron.ca>,6 >      JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:H > >                     So DECUS could be revived with a true mandate to	 > supportl > > the ex-Digital products. > @ > Would that include the PDP-11 and it's still active (and very  > current) OSes? >  > > > > > Returning to "DECUS" on a worldwide basis would be a very 
 > good thing.  > 
 > I agree. >  > bill >  > --@ > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.   > Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 14:29:42 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappera- Message-ID: <87sn182089.fsf@prep.synonet.com>b  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:p  C > David Froble wrote in message <3D5D304E.1090000@tsoft-inc.com>...   fC > >Note that there are a whole bunch more that can be critical, but B > >mostly fair, and wish that you, Rich, and the whole gang wasn'tA > >operating at such a disadvantage.  If you were playing tennis, @ > >you'd have a 10 foot hole from which you had to serve.  We doF > >appriciate all the efforts, but we still haven't seen anyone higher6 > >up than Rich actually do anything positive for VMS.  F > Perhaps insignificant to many, but everyone in BCS is being asked toE > take a short set of basic training modules over the internal net tot" > learn about what our group does.  lE > The introduction is a 45 minute video of the head of BCS (the group,< > which includes the enterprise Itanium and PA-RISC hardwareE > platforms, HP-UX, VMS, NSK, and Alpha).  OpenVMS is mentioned in itiD > along with NSK - with no apologies, and in a very positive way (in= > fact, he mentions that he has gotten more mail from OpenVMS D > customers than *any* other customer group, and they have convincedD > him just how loyal and important they are).  One of the self pacedC > modules that people are asked to take along with the PA-RISC, andxD > HP-UX sections - is OpenVMS.  In fact, a good history and overview > of Alpha is also included.  D My mail just had a notice for tommorows webcast on T64 and HPUX turn5 up from DECUS. The *VERY FIRST* line of the overview:m  B "No operating system is more critical to enterprise customers thanE VMS, with its ability to deliver robust, mission-critical solutions."s  D Perhaps there is some hope after all... Just hope I havn't jinxed it all by mentioning it :(    -- ,< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:08:28 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappereG Message-ID: <w9N89.5954$bu81.2064@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D6306E7.B4497DE1@fsi.net...s > John Smith wrote:l > >w4 > > Copyright 2002, John Smith. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > D > If "John Smith" is not your real name, your claim to copyright may > unenforceable.    H Well, there's an OT comment. Open a phone book some time and turn to theI pages that start with the letters 'smith'. You may find that there are atr) least several of us in nearly every city.:  L HP is creatively bankrupt when it comes to VMS advertising ( there's more toG it than just that as we all know ), and all I want to do if preserve my D ability to relieve them of some cash when they need to use the idea.  9 Now that's taken care of, what did you think of the 'ad'?m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:19:35 +0200n From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>4 Subject: Re: Hoff, what is the status of your book ?6 Message-ID: <cdG89.159386$uV1.12452178@zwoll1.home.nl>   Neil Rieck wrote: - > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message 0 > news:uyg49.91835$uV1.6582943@zwoll1.home.nl... >  >>[...snip...] >>L >>Yes, I was refering to that book. From people with more intimate knowledge >  > of > G >>the VMS engineering group, I already heard that you have to cope withc > 	 > amazingr > I >>loads of work. That makes it all the more understandable that you don't  > 
 > have any > + >>units of spare time left to write a book.e >>1 >>Perhaps we need a cluster of cloned hoffs ? :-)e >>F >>But anyway I will not withdraw my order of the book, and I will keep > 
 > hoping thatC > + >>one day my copy will fall on the doormat.i >> > J > This is something I might be interested in as well. What is the proposed( > title so that others may pre-order it? >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,p > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/o >  >  >  >   
 The title is:u   OpenVMS System Management Guideb Publisher: Digital Press ISBN: 1555582435  J You can find it at Amazon.com, seems it will be published in January 2003.  M This can mean that OpenVMS 7.4 will be a bit delayed, since Hoff can't write -( books and software at the same time :-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:52:32 -0400u& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c?, Message-ID: <3d638d11_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D628C3B.FF52BC18@videotron.ca... |b |IK | CC/prototype creates a .CH file which has an automatic declaration of allo thejI | functions in that file (along with some crud that needs to be removed).   J     Could you expand upon "crud"?  If there's something bad...we'd like to     know about it. | F | The declarations do not contain the variable names though, so from aG | documentation point of view, it is less "complete" than when you justG9 | copy/paste the function header to a section at the top.   =     If you use /PROTO=IDENTIFIERS, the output prototypes will3D     include the parameter names.  Also note that by default,  /PROTOB     does not create function prototype declarations for the static@     functions in a module.  One must add /PROTO=STATIC_FUNCTIONS     to get those created.t  (                                 Ed Vogel5                                 Compaq C Engineering.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:52:32 -0400t& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c?. Message-ID: <3d638f37$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D628C3B.FF52BC18@videotron.ca... |g |lK | CC/prototype creates a .CH file which has an automatic declaration of allc the6I | functions in that file (along with some crud that needs to be removed).   J     Could you expand upon "crud"?  If there's something bad...we'd like to     know about it. |:F | The declarations do not contain the variable names though, so from aG | documentation point of view, it is less "complete" than when you just69 | copy/paste the function header to a section at the top.   =     If you use /PROTO=IDENTIFIERS, the output prototypes will-D     include the parameter names.  Also note that by default,  /PROTOB     does not create function prototype declarations for the static@     functions in a module.  One must add /PROTO=STATIC_FUNCTIONS     to get those created.   (                                 Ed Vogel5                                 Compaq C Engineering.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:52:32 -0400t& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: How to "forward declare" a function in c?. Message-ID: <3d63976f$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D628C3B.FF52BC18@videotron.ca... |t |gK | CC/prototype creates a .CH file which has an automatic declaration of alll thedI | functions in that file (along with some crud that needs to be removed).y  J     Could you expand upon "crud"?  If there's something bad...we'd like to     know about it. |yF | The declarations do not contain the variable names though, so from aG | documentation point of view, it is less "complete" than when you just29 | copy/paste the function header to a section at the top.   =     If you use /PROTO=IDENTIFIERS, the output prototypes willeD     include the parameter names.  Also note that by default,  /PROTOB     does not create function prototype declarations for the static@     functions in a module.  One must add /PROTO=STATIC_FUNCTIONS     to get those created.   (                                 Ed Vogel5                                 Compaq C Engineering.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:36:03 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlya0 Message-ID: <ajvmvl$m0i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,e > $ > And in response to your yeahbut .. >  > H >>>How did a Java benchmark intrude into a discussion about the relative >>>rA > performance of SPARC CPU's and others and their effects on DBMSl > licensing costs ???????? <<< > J > The response was in reply to your generic statement that was not related > to db licensing -lI > "Persistent claims of huge CPU performance gaps between SPARC and other ( > CPU's have made by you and the choir." >  > H >>>>If you want an example of what is a more realistic test of java/apps >>>>I > server performance then look at ecperf which is a J2EE apps server/DBMS G > server performance test using the horizontal scaling delivered by the  > apps servers.<<< > B > Oh my goodness, I thought for a moment you were going to say the? > "clustering" word that you seem to dislike so much .. I guesst3 > "horizontal scaling" is an easier word to say eh?I >     6 No actually is an applications server cluster, we have4 talked about them in that past as you should be able given enough time recall.>     > :-)  > J > So, you admit there is a place for clustering. Wow. And since many, manyG > of our Customers are looking at adopting J2EE / Java Apps, I guess wecJ > can say clustering is the way to go for these Customers - and right from > a Sun Consultant.i >     6 So you have entirely forgotten the cluster discussions7 we have had in the past where I have pointed out that a : combination of application server clusters using something; like BEA, iPlanet etc and OPS provide very highly resiliant  systems.  8 Kerry how about trying to appear to be smart rather that: the opposite. Your memory has always been somewhat suspect: particularly when it is being asked to recall one or other7 of your numerous mistakes perhaps another trawl throughs6 deja would be good for your soul and bad for your ego.    I > Course, the Application Level Clustering (term used by vendors like BEAiI > etc) concept you are outlining is application specific, so if one had ayE > number of different applications on a server, then each applicationzC > would require their own application clustering strategy as well. t >     = No, if your applications are all being deployed inside a J2EEk@ apps server then you use the same mechanism for all of them this? being provided by the apps server you have chosen, iPlanet, BEA = etc. You need to worry about your persistent state (DBMS) anda; hence the use of OPS, RAC or simple Oracle HA and failover.l  8 One of the banks I advise has a "cluster" of Sun F6800's8 on which they deploy Java apps running in a BEA Weblogic< apps server. The combination of the BEA weblogic apps server5 the Solaris OS and the HW provide a service which anyi& of their Java apps can be deployed in.  9 You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java 6 offering the possibility that apps don't need to be OS7 specific any more, take it one stage further and deployt them in an apps server.h     Regardsp Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:57:52 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>t+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyg0 Message-ID: <ajvo8h$mc4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  8 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>9 >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ...o >>>  >>>o? >>>>I am not a stock analyst but given the fundamentals of bothl: >>>>busineses I know which one I would bet on for the next >>>>6-12 months. >>>> >>>> >>>>I >>>Your confusing fundamentals with your personal opinion of the company,h >>>  > it's > I >>>products, and it's direction.  From a pure stock play perspective, Sunn >>>  > hasu > L >>>shown little evidence that it will make it's slight profit prediction forE >>>the fiscal year ending in 2003.  Nor has the tech market shown any- >>>-
 > evidence > L >>>of a turn around in general.  I would expect most tech stocks to flounder> >>>until something starts driving a new growth spurt in sales. >>>I >>>7 >>B >>Fundamentals are revenue growth and market share growth. We haveB >>them you don't. Not cutting R&D and other longer term investment? >>does have a short term impact but most experts agree that thex@ >>companies that can do this and grow revenue and share during a= >>downturn are the ones that come out of it in the best shape" >>when the recovery starts.e >> >> > N > I'll help you out.  Try quicken.com, plug in SUNW and click on Fundamentals. > M > Reading your SEC filings, it also appears that while wanting to hold R&D at M > 10% of net revenue, you also plan on reducing your headcount 9%.  Not good. M > Are you too fat in management?  Too many salesmen?  Too many support staff?eJ > Too many engineers?  Where is the 9% comming from?  You are also closing
 > facilities.  > H > You show zero proof that there is any revenue growth going on at Sun -N > again, click on fundamentals in quicken.com and look at "Growth Trends".   IJ > guess "hoping" to not lose money in a quarter versus losing money is theM > right direction though - but I don't think you can project a trend based one
 > wishing. >     @ Well apart from our CY2002/Q1 and Q2 numbers no we show no signs of revenue growth.  = Remind me how long has the joint Compaq and HP entity been in.9 existantance. Come on Freddy boy havn't you FUDDED enough     < > Some selected quotes from your own SEC quarterly report... > N > "Over 90% of our products net revenue in the third quarter as well as in theJ > first nine months of both fiscal 2002 and 2001 was generated by ComputerL > Systems and Network Storage. Computer Systems and Network Storage consistsK > primarily of servers, storage and desktop computers. Substantially all ofc > theeN > decrease in products net revenue during the third quarter and the first nineH > months of fiscal 2002, when compared with the corresponding periods of
 > fiscal 2001-    C Freddy you have a terrible terrible comprehension problem. Sun's isSB acheiving quarter on quarter revenue growth. We had however a veryD steep decline and we have not yet got to a point where revenues have recovered to pre crash levels.  D How difficult is this for you to understand ?? Crash, big fall, slow recovery get it ??  H In the discussions we have had, you have lurched from benchmarks to CPU B performance to systems architecture without betraying any apparent< understanding of the subjects you post on now you have addedA financial analysis to the list of things that you apparently know.C nothing about as well, is this a clever front or has some maliciousS co-worker stolen your account ?M       > K >>>The longer the industry slump continues, the higher the probability thatiL >>>only the strong (balance sheets) will survive.  Sun's current stock priceF >>>and market capitalization may make it a target for a takeover - who >>>%	 > knows -e > E >>>maybe Fujitsu will buy you - or some enterprising Defense industry: >>>F	 > companyz >  >>>might :-) >>>  >>> A >>I doub't it Sun's stock is low because of the economic downturnj> >>very few companies have either the cash or the guts during a> >>downturn to stump up the kind of money needed for a purchase: >>of this type in these market conditions. Nice FUDDY spin	 >>though.s >> >> > G > *I'm* not the first - or the last - that has suggested that this is alH > possibility.  In fact you are wrong about it not being a good time forG > aquisitions.  This is exactly the time where these things can happen.  >  > 9 >>As an alternative how about spinning out the profitableo4 >>printing business in HP and ditching the rest in a9 >>garage sale now that just might give your stock holders. >>a nice return. >> >> >  > Nice try at FUD yourself.0 > ; > From your SEC filings - your employer takes us seriously:u >     2 Well of course we do you are in our markets. Sadly4 the whole tone of your arguments now and in the past/ suggests that you don't take Sun seriously. Sadw3 for you not for us. You have worked for 2 companies 4 Digital and Compaq both of who suffered at the hands7 of their competitors Sun and IBM as HP is now sufferingc! at the hands of Sun IBM and Dell.e  4 If your comments reflect the culture of both defunct5 companies then it goes a long way to explain why theyo5 are defunct, lets hope for HP's sake that this aspectt7 of the Digital/Compaq way does not become the prevelantd HP culture.s     Regards.   Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:24:38 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyf0 Message-ID: <ajvpqo$mts$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Greg Cagle wrote:n   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > H >> Reading your SEC filings, it also appears that while wanting to hold 	 >> R&D atoI >> 10% of net revenue, you also plan on reducing your headcount 9%.  Not   >> good.H >> Are you too fat in management?  Too many salesmen?  Too many support 	 >> staff?iK >> Too many engineers?  Where is the 9% comming from?  You are also closing  >> facilities. >  > I > My friends over at the Starcat plant in Beaverton say they are the only F > group within Sun that is making money - and yet they are getting cut > back 10% as well. Hmmm.  >       : The bulk of Suns redundancies were absorbed by field sales> admin, marketing etc. The aim was not to impact R&D functions.   Regardsr Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:44:46 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly 0 Message-ID: <ajvr0g$nan$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:    L > Let's see, you are trying to say that the fact that Cisco and Sun were theH > leading indicators in the dot.bomb somehow makes them "trend setters".G > Interesting financial analysis.  Meaningless, but interesting in some-A > historical way when we write the history of the dot.bomb years.o >     3 It always amuses me when people make the mistake of-2 talking about dot.com as a past and failed entity.  8 This generally betrays the writers lack of understanding of what dot.com is.s  : Yes a lot of pure dot.com companies failed, ones that only; mostly existed as an internet entity BOO for example in the"; UK. But the dot.com revolution was not confined to internety: startups and in practice more business in infrasture terms: was done providing household name companies with their own< dot.com facilites either to provide them with an alternative< route to market or to provide them with a more efficient way! of delivering computing services.(  6 Many now use portals to allow people to work from home* on the move and through 3rd party systems.   Try http://sun.net  5 You will get a login prompt, if you could get throughc6 and you won't be able to you would get access to Sun's5 internal mail, calendaring etc etc something we would07 have had to do via modem pools and pre-installed clientw software in the past.u  5 Most of the big car manufacturers used to equip theiro6 dealers with PC's and software to allow them to access6 things like their parts ordering systems etc. This was8 expensive for them to maintain and support in the field.9 Now they use web portals and simply require their dealers 8 to have a browser, the same applies to travel agents and! a whole host of other businesses.   : Many of the banks and insurance companies used the dot.com: growth to establish different routes to market. Prudential; with Egg and Halifax Bank of Scotland with Esure, COOP withs> Smile are examples of this in the UK. These dot.com enties are# in fact backed by mortar companies.p  9 This is where the majority of the "dot.com" spending wentd6 and while this is effected like everything else in the, market downturn it has not failed or bombed.   Regardse Andrew Harrisoni        K > So how exactly does that relate to my comment?  Was there someplace I waswH > comparing Sun to HP?  HP has twice the market capitalization as Sun, I- > expect that HP can move the market as well.s >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:43:25 -0400.' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>e+ Subject: RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlykT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266094D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,0  F >>> You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java offeringH the possibility that apps don't need to be OS specific any more, take it6 one stage further and deploy them in an apps server.<<  E And what if a Customer has a number of J2EE and non-J2EE applicationsoC running on the server/partition besides BEA? How will BEA supportedhD application clustering help them? [as is often the case when you are looking at IT Consolidation?]d  C How will BEA supported application clustering handle system relatediF features that one typically associates with system related clustering?   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20o Sent: August 21, 2002 5:36 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly          Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,  >=20$ > And in response to your yeahbut .. >=20 >=20H >>>How did a Java benchmark intrude into a discussion about the relative >>> D > performance of SPARC CPU's and others and their effects on DBMS=20 > licensing costs ???????? <<< >=20E > The response was in reply to your generic statement that was not=20<I > related to db licensing - "Persistent claims of huge CPU performance=20oE > gaps between SPARC and other CPU's have made by you and the choir."m >=20 >=20H >>>>If you want an example of what is a more realistic test of java/apps >>>>@ > server performance then look at ecperf which is a J2EE apps=20E > server/DBMS server performance test using the horizontal scaling=20d# > delivered by the apps servers.<<<g >=20E > Oh my goodness, I thought for a moment you were going to say the=20yB > "clustering" word that you seem to dislike so much .. I guess=203 > "horizontal scaling" is an easier word to say eh?t >=20    6 No actually is an applications server cluster, we have4 talked about them in that past as you should be able given enough time recall.t     > :-)c >=20H > So, you admit there is a place for clustering. Wow. And since many,=20F > many of our Customers are looking at adopting J2EE / Java Apps, I=20H > guess we can say clustering is the way to go for these Customers - and   > right from a Sun Consultant. >=20    6 So you have entirely forgotten the cluster discussionsF we have had in the past where I have pointed out that a combination ofE application server clusters using something like BEA, iPlanet etc ande* OPS provide very highly resiliant systems.  8 Kerry how about trying to appear to be smart rather thatG the opposite. Your memory has always been somewhat suspect particularlytG when it is being asked to recall one or other of your numerous mistakes'F perhaps another trawl through deja would be good for your soul and bad
 for your ego.i    H > Course, the Application Level Clustering (term used by vendors like=20 > BEAmG > etc) concept you are outlining is application specific, so if one had  atE > number of different applications on a server, then each applicationlE > would require their own application clustering strategy as well.=20O >=20    B No, if your applications are all being deployed inside a J2EE appsA server then you use the same mechanism for all of them this beingtG provided by the apps server you have chosen, iPlanet, BEA etc. You need E to worry about your persistent state (DBMS) and hence the use of OPS,-% RAC or simple Oracle HA and failover.   8 One of the banks I advise has a "cluster" of Sun F6800's8 on which they deploy Java apps running in a BEA WeblogicH apps server. The combination of the BEA weblogic apps server the SolarisC OS and the HW provide a service which any of their Java apps can beh deployed in.  F You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java offering theH possibility that apps don't need to be OS specific any more, take it one0 stage further and deploy them in an apps server.     Regardsl Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:18:07 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>c+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly 0 Message-ID: <ak00fh$p1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,c >  > F >>>>You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java offering >>>>J > the possibility that apps don't need to be OS specific any more, take it8 > one stage further and deploy them in an apps server.<< > G > And what if a Customer has a number of J2EE and non-J2EE applications E > running on the server/partition besides BEA? How will BEA supportedeF > application clustering help them? [as is often the case when you are > looking at IT Consolidation?]  >     6 It won't but isn't this a bit of a straw man. You made6 the claim that I wouldn't consider any kind of cluster as being a valid architecture.  5 I have demonstrated conclusively that your suggestion 5 is incorrect and is just the result of a memory lapse 1 on your part, why not leave it at that you appears to be in over your head anyway.r   Regardsi Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:26:54 -0400e> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>+ Subject: RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3B91@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>w   > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyh6 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]* > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:45 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg- > Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyt >  >  >  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > > > > Let's see, you are trying to say that the fact that Cisco  > and Sun were the: > > leading indicators in the dot.bomb somehow makes them  > "trend setters".6 > > Interesting financial analysis.  Meaningless, but  > interesting in someyC > > historical way when we write the history of the dot.bomb years.  > >  >  > 5 > It always amuses me when people make the mistake ofo4 > talking about dot.com as a past and failed entity. > : > This generally betrays the writers lack of understanding > of what dot.com is.r > < > Yes a lot of pure dot.com companies failed, ones that only= > mostly existed as an internet entity BOO for example in the = > UK. But the dot.com revolution was not confined to internet < > startups and in practice more business in infrasture terms< > was done providing household name companies with their own> > dot.com facilites either to provide them with an alternative> > route to market or to provide them with a more efficient way# > of delivering computing services.- > 8 > Many now use portals to allow people to work from home, > on the move and through 3rd party systems. >  > Try http://sun.net >   8 Sounds like an invitation/permission granted from a Sun 0 employee  to hack.  <grin>  Hmmm... this is the ; Internet, and this post is probably seen worldwide.   Hope r< the black hats don't decide to hack and do denial of service	 or worse.a  7 > You will get a login prompt, if you could get through 8 > and you won't be able to you would get access to Sun's7 > internal mail, calendaring etc etc something we would 9 > have had to do via modem pools and pre-installed clients > software in the past.r > 7 > Most of the big car manufacturers used to equip theiru8 > dealers with PC's and software to allow them to access8 > things like their parts ordering systems etc. This was: > expensive for them to maintain and support in the field.; > Now they use web portals and simply require their dealers>: > to have a browser, the same applies to travel agents and# > a whole host of other businesses.  > < > Many of the banks and insurance companies used the dot.com< > growth to establish different routes to market. Prudential= > with Egg and Halifax Bank of Scotland with Esure, COOP with @ > Smile are examples of this in the UK. These dot.com enties are% > in fact backed by mortar companies.t > ; > This is where the majority of the "dot.com" spending wentt8 > and while this is effected like everything else in the. > market downturn it has not failed or bombed. > 	 > Regardse > Andrew Harrison  >  >  >  > > > > So how exactly does that relate to my comment?  Was there  > someplace I waso2 > > comparing Sun to HP?  HP has twice the market  > capitalization as Sun, I/ > > expect that HP can move the market as well.  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:45:05 -0400c' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>r+ Subject: RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlygT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266094E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,u  G Hey - we are definitely making progress as you now acknowledge there isi a place for clustering.=20  F Fwiw, I really like your recommendation for less then 24 CPU based SMP7 systems clustered together for J2EE based environments.s  B However, application clustering has a very small play and numerous& limitations for large implementations.  ' But - I will take progress where I can.    :-)l   Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20r Sent: August 21, 2002 8:18 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyr         Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,  >=20 >=20F >>>>You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java offering >>>>J > the possibility that apps don't need to be OS specific any more, take=20; > it one stage further and deploy them in an apps server.<<e >=20J > And what if a Customer has a number of J2EE and non-J2EE applications=20H > running on the server/partition besides BEA? How will BEA supported=20I > application clustering help them? [as is often the case when you are=20  > looking at IT Consolidation?]t >=20    6 It won't but isn't this a bit of a straw man. You made6 the claim that I wouldn't consider any kind of cluster as being a valid architecture.  5 I have demonstrated conclusively that your suggestionn5 is incorrect and is just the result of a memory lapsei1 on your part, why not leave it at that you appear  to be in over your head anyway.c   Regardsh Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:03:46 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly , Message-ID: <3D63C7EF.37BAF5C2@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:5 > It always amuses me when people make the mistake oft4 > talking about dot.com as a past and failed entity.  K Andrew, would you admit that most of the growth during the dot com era cametH from companies which had no hope for survival and existed solely because= people were stupid enough to pour oodles of money into them ?   L And another aspect of this were the telecoms who also got oodles of money toK deploy tons of fibre and routers etc etc, thinking that demand for bandwithnK would never cease to grow exponentially. (and this is what caused companies N such as Cisco, Nortel and JDS Uniphase to have their stock grow to unrealisticK orbital levels, and Nortel making the big mistake of buying up all sorts ofo .COMs in the process).  G In the case of Nortel, remember that it was very much a voice equipmentoK company just before the .COM boom, and it was through acquisitions (such as L bay networks) that all of a sudden, Nortel was able to sell equipment neededL by the .COMs. Problem is that they went overboard in their purchases and areM not paying dearly for it. JDS Uniphase was a little little-known company who,rK for some reason, became the darling of Wall Street and all of a sudden, its M name became just as well known as Microsoft, also with its stock rocketing toiI orbit even though most investors only knew that JDS was involved in fibereL optics, something that was associated with the success of .COMs at the time.    J Now, if you talk about the serious , established, companies who decided toH provide web services to customers, suppliers and employees, then you areL correct, there was spending there. But how big was that spending compared to@ the "irrational exhuberance" spending from the "true" dot coms ?    M I have to admit that for a company that was so associated with .COM spending, M SUN (and Cisco) seems to have faired much better than its peers at Nortel and M Lucent. SUN didn't go on buying/spending binges, so I guess that now that they1 bubble has burst, SUN hasn't fallen from as high.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:00:36 +0100r4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>& Subject: http server relay/redirectionB Message-ID: <1029942037.15587.0.nnrp-13.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  I We've a website where we take order details via a post form, then want tohK send the customer off to a secure third party Pay Page (another post form).cD Do we have to store the order details, send the pay form down to theJ customer & submit it (via javascript or user action), then let his browserA download the next form, or is there some way to short-circuit the_ intermediate page ?   L Ie, we get the post from the order form, then return a post query which goesJ direct to the pay page, without the intermediate "Please go to checkout" ?   Thanks,  Christ   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 01:41:55 -0700, From: iskandar@measat.com (Iskandar Hussein)7 Subject: Installing new RF36 Hard disk in VAX 4000 105Am< Message-ID: <28a7709.0208210041.31d2bfa0@posting.google.com>   Dear friends,   E My VAX 4000 105A is having a disk space problem.  I need to add a newoC unit of hard disk in my system.  Currently the system is running onl, VMS VAX 6.2 and on 4 1.6 GB DSSI Hard Drive.  ? The project I am engaging currently requires me to add one moree5 additional hard drive in the expansion cabinet, B40X.K  D Anybody in the group have experience installing this unit would mind< sharing the installing method?  I would appreciate the help.     Regards    Iskandar Hussein Senior Engineer, Computere Satellite Operationh Measat Control Center, Langkawim   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 08:19:23 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)sI Subject: Re: Licenses (was Re: Charon-VAX (was: [VAX] VMS to [Alpha]...))m= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0208210719.544ea5ae@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<l4vpHAWl2O0K@eisner.encompasserve.org>...g > In article <af0dc2ea.0208201358.570feb4a@posting.google.com>, whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) writes:  > F > > Thank you for your concern, but this Alpha was purchased sometime G > > in the late 1980's or early 1990's and it does not have UCX or NSA s > ! > Certainly not in the 1980's :-)t  D Umm, probably not. They probably bought it sometime after Alpha was C introduced. Hmm. Next time I'm there I'll check to see if it has a e7 negative serial, though, and let you know if it does;-)o  ? After one reaches a certain age the years do run together. You aB might find it interesting to know that this little Alpha replaced ? a PDP-11/34 --- which they (the accounting dept) got as a hand-s@ me-down from production --- so they completely skipped the VAX. @ Their payroll calcs went from over a 1/2 hr to complete to less > than 10 seconds. We found that the on-screen progress displays< were slowing it down so we took those out and the P/R calcs > finished almost as soon as the sound of the enter key's click 
 had faded.    DLP   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:23:40 -0400n- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>t  Subject: Re: New missive from HP6 Message-ID: <ak0ba3$1ehg1v$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D62F249.1C9D07AC@videotron.ca... >...J > If your customers have rants against you, what should you do ? Tell yourK > customers to shut up, go away, or do you listen to your customer and heedtA > their suggestions and change the way you present your product ?f >...  J But how many of the "main ranters" in this group are VMS customers? BeforeK the group gets into a fight over the term "customer" (again) then how aboutn9 we say, "How many earn their living by working with VMS?"    -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.e   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2002 16:37:34 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: New missive from HP6 Message-ID: <ak0fke$1e3n90$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  6 In article <ak0ba3$1ehg1v$1@id-141708.news.dfncis.de>,0 	"Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D62F249.1C9D07AC@videotron.ca... >>...XK >> If your customers have rants against you, what should you do ? Tell youreL >> customers to shut up, go away, or do you listen to your customer and heedB >> their suggestions and change the way you present your product ? >>...e > L > But how many of the "main ranters" in this group are VMS customers? BeforeM > the group gets into a fight over the term "customer" (again) then how aboutt; > we say, "How many earn their living by working with VMS?"t  @ Shouldn't you include in that how many WERE earning their living< working with VMS before their bosses booted VMS out the door> because of the actions, or lack there of, by it's owners??  Is? this time to bring up the lack of any interest int he educationE market again??   bill   -- pJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   z   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:24:57 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t  Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D63CCE5.A0FA9631@videotron.ca>   Peter Weaver wrote: L > But how many of the "main ranters" in this group are VMS customers? BeforeM > the group gets into a fight over the term "customer" (again) then how aboutn; > we say, "How many earn their living by working with VMS?"a  L If you remove Andrew, I would say that the vast majority of us here have VMSI as a major part of their job/life.  Some of us have even invested our own M personal money in VMS infrastructure while other get to play on VMS which wasv payed for by their employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2002 17:57:13 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: New missive from HP6 Message-ID: <ak0k9o$1eq4gq$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  > In article <Xns927189B3B7F34acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>,$ 	Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:< > bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) enlightened us with1 > news:ak0fke$1e3n90$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de: i > C >> Shouldn't you include in that how many WERE earning their livingt? >> working with VMS before their bosses booted VMS out the doorwA >> because of the actions, or lack there of, by it's owners??  IsuB >> this time to bring up the lack of any interest int he education >> market again??m > > > VMS is still in the educational market. Higher Ed (where theB > company I work for focuses its' efforts) really isn't that largeE > of a market (A couple thousand schools in the US?) for the kinds of B > applications that run on VMS. You just don't hear much about it.? > In a niche market (like education) VMS probably has as much a > > presence as it does in other niche markets. For a company to= > survive in that niche it can't be purely VMS based anymore.v  C I think you missed the point or maybe you didn't follow it the lasttH time around.  I wasn't talking about the administrative tasks of runningD a school.  I was talking about the programs that put VMS back in theC classroom so students know there is a (reliable? secure?) option to-C Windows and yes, even Unix, when they graduate and go out to becomeoG the decision makers or at least, the brains behind the decision makers.c   > > > Of course, that's purely on the business side. Most users ofC > business applications on VMS in Education have no idea what theiro= > applications are running on. And there's no reason why theyg
 > should.   C Bill Gates doesn't agree. he wants everyone to know that everything 2 is running on Windows.  And he is winning the war.   > D > The mind-share issue (VMS exposure for students).... I would argue> > that exposing students to VMS at this point is not going to B > increase its' market share in the "real world" It's too late...   G There are may of us, some of us in the trenches next to those students,i who don't agree.   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:01:22 -0400r, From: David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu>' Subject: OpenVms / Vax -- free downloadm, Message-ID: <3D63B952.466F2705@email.uc.edu>   Hi,.H Is it legal to post a copy of the Operating System CD for OpenVms Vax on a public server???  F The software could still be licensed the same way it is now (regarding
 hobbyist).    H A free download would increase intrest in OpenVMS tremendously... A freeH download would bring stabillity and logevity to the operating system and	 hardware.j  G The hobbist program is great, but it seems like they are allways out of  stock...  F The best thing for the future of OpenVMS/VAX would be for the OS to be freely downloadable... n  H Eventually I think it will happen, it just depends on how dead the thing4 gets first.. OpenVMS/Vax doesn't make HP any money..    H It's not like I'm going to run OpenVMS on my Ultra 30 and cheat them outH of a hardware sale. I obviously bought a copy of the operating system if# I've got a Vax (they came together)p     David Michaels   michaedi@email.uc.edub dmichaels@acm.orgl   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:15:22 -0700 (PDT)p. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>+ Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download @ Message-ID: <20020821171522.57287.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>   FREE DOWNLOAD FOR WHAT ????u  $ OpenVMS / VAX doesnt run in PCs !!!!  5 In 2 weeks I will receive as giff - I hope - an Alphao0 2100 and a VAX 4000. I dont know what I will do 4 with the  VAX. I want just the external disks (SBB)  to my one disk Alpha 1000.   Regardsn   FC c    1 --- David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote:k > Hi,o4 > Is it legal to post a copy of the Operating System > CD for OpenVms Vax on  > a public server??? > 6 > The software could still be licensed the same way it > is now (regarding  > hobbyist). >  > 3 > A free download would increase intrest in OpenVMSc > tremendously... A free5 > download would bring stabillity and logevity to thet > operating system and > hardware.o > 6 > The hobbist program is great, but it seems like they > are allways out of
 > stock... > 4 > The best thing for the future of OpenVMS/VAX would > be for the OS to bei > freely downloadable... t > 4 > Eventually I think it will happen, it just depends > on how dead the thing'6 > gets first.. OpenVMS/Vax doesn't make HP any money.. >  > 4 > It's not like I'm going to run OpenVMS on my Ultra > 30 and cheat them outi6 > of a hardware sale. I obviously bought a copy of the > operating system ifo% > I've got a Vax (they came together)a >  >  > David Michaels >  > michaedi@email.uc.edu  > dmichaels@acm.org      =====c ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazila fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?& HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:22:47 -0400t* From: "Kaledas, Ronald" <RKaledas@dmc.org>* Subject: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1L Message-ID: <B39B28A01B62D311B1360090277B3A58070F7827@tro-nt-exchg2.dmc.org>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24915.D7932200  Content-Type: text/plain;- 	charset="iso-8859-1"   ? I'm having a strange problem that I hope someone can help with.M  K In our test cluster, we were running vms E7.3-1 (field test) with tcpip 5.30 and oracle FD 7.3.3.6 (and also oracle 8.1.7.3).  Yesterday, I upgraded vms to the production version ofiJ  V7.3-1.  Nothing else changed.  When the cluster came back up, everything workedK  fine...except SVRMGRL and SQLPLUS.  When you telnet into the node, or comee in viaK  reflection X, invoking svrmgrl produces the following two lines (after thee normal header):   1 MGR-11401: input error, unable to read input lineu+ MGR-01508: unable to close the current filel  H Invoking sqlplus, without a username/password, is supposed to prompt and wait for theL  username.  It comes up with the username prompt, and then immediately exits back to dcl J  without waiting.  Invoking sqlplus with a username/password gets into the program, but thenrK  the sql> prompt then keeps appearing and scrolling up the screen as if youM were holdingH  down the RETURN key!  So, it seems to me these programs are acting like sys$input is not#  defined, or something like that.  e  H Here's the kicker...everything works fine if you SET HOST into the node. SVRMGRL and   SQLPLUS both work as expected.    Argh!s  E Everything else seems to work fine, any other program I run, just not  oracle.  I've tried L logging in with /nocom, in case there was some interaction there, I've tried defining sysF $input, I've done this in oracle 7.3 and 8i, and I also booted off the backup copy of theL  system disk, to see if the problem was in oracle, but it worked fine there!  E It seems to be some interaction with TELNET and oracle, but the tcpipc version DID NOT J change!  I also reinstalled tcpip 5.3 and the mup for 5.3, but that didn't change anything.H Oh, and I didn't have the mup in place right away, so this happened both with and without	  the mup.o  K I've logged a call, but Colorado support is also not sure what else to look- at.-    Does anyone here have any ideas?   Thanks,m RonM  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24915.D7932200c Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"D  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">H <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">0 <TITLE>oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1</TITLE> </HEAD>m <BODY>  V <P><FONT SIZE=2>I'm having a strange problem that I hope someone can help with.</FONT> </P>  n <P><FONT SIZE=2>In our test cluster, we were running vms E7.3-1 (field test) with tcpip 5.3 and oracle </FONT>w <BR><FONT SIZE=2>7.3.3.6 (and also oracle 8.1.7.3).&nbsp; Yesterday, I upgraded vms to the production version of</FONT>ix <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;V7.3-1.&nbsp; Nothing else changed.&nbsp; When the cluster came back up, everything worked</FONT>t <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;fine...except SVRMGRL and SQLPLUS.&nbsp; When you telnet into the node, or come in via</FONT>x <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;reflection X, invoking svrmgrl produces the following two lines (after the normal header):</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=2>MGR-11401: input error, unable to read input line</FONT>C <BR><FONT SIZE=2>MGR-01508: unable to close the current file</FONT>a </P>  l <P><FONT SIZE=2>Invoking sqlplus, without a username/password, is supposed to prompt and wait for the</FONT>z <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;username.&nbsp; It comes up with the username prompt, and then immediately exits back to dcl</FONT>~ <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;without waiting.&nbsp; Invoking sqlplus with a username/password gets into the program, but then</FONT>x <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;the sql&gt; prompt then keeps appearing and scrolling up the screen as if you were holding</FONT>{ <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;down the RETURN key!&nbsp; So, it seems to me these programs are acting like sys$input is not</FONT>mE <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;defined, or something like that.&nbsp; </FONT>s </P>  q <P><FONT SIZE=2>Here's the kicker...everything works fine if you SET HOST into the node.&nbsp; SVRMGRL and</FONT>d< <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;SQLPLUS both work as expected.</FONT> </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=2>Argh!</FONT> </P>  v <P><FONT SIZE=2>Everything else seems to work fine, any other program I run, just not oracle.&nbsp; I've tried </FONT>q <BR><FONT SIZE=2>logging in with /nocom, in case there was some interaction there, I've tried defining sys</FONT>nq <BR><FONT SIZE=2>$input, I've done this in oracle 7.3 and 8i, and I also booted off the backup copy of the</FONT> i <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;system disk, to see if the problem was in oracle, but it worked fine there!</FONT>c </P>  m <P><FONT SIZE=2>It seems to be some interaction with TELNET and oracle, but the tcpip version DID NOT </FONT>tx <BR><FONT SIZE=2>change!&nbsp; I also reinstalled tcpip 5.3 and the mup for 5.3, but that didn't change anything.</FONT>q <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Oh, and I didn't have the mup in place right away, so this happened both with and without</FONT>e& <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;the mup.</FONT> </P>  f <P><FONT SIZE=2>I've logged a call, but Colorado support is also not sure what else to look at.</FONT> </P>  7 <P><FONT SIZE=2>Does anyone here have any ideas?</FONT>  </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Ron</FONT>o </P>   </BODY>s </HTML>V) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24915.D7932200--.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:21:34 GMTs, From: "Mike Zarudzki" <mike.zarudzki@hp.com>. Subject: Re: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-12 Message-ID: <2eO89.17$cO7.407691@news.cpqcorp.net>  L oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1Have you tried RSH into it? Build a command. procedure that adds the set watch file command( and see what results, if any get logged.  0 I assume your not seeing anything OPCOM related?  J I assume this is not just one account, but accounts with various levels of privs?  L Anything wierd on the telnet service itself? File defined? Log opts defined?   HTHh -Mike Z. "All opinions my own..."    5 "Kaledas, Ronald" <RKaledas@dmc.org> wrote in messageDF news:B39B28A01B62D311B1360090277B3A58070F7827@tro-nt-exchg2.dmc.org...? I'm having a strange problem that I hope someone can help with.rK In our test cluster, we were running vms E7.3-1 (field test) with tcpip 5.3o
 and oracleD 7.3.3.6 (and also oracle 8.1.7.3).  Yesterday, I upgraded vms to the production version ofsJ  V7.3-1.  Nothing else changed.  When the cluster came back up, everything workedK  fine...except SVRMGRL and SQLPLUS.  When you telnet into the node, or come  in viaK  reflection X, invoking svrmgrl produces the following two lines (after thel normal header): 1 MGR-11401: input error, unable to read input lineo+ MGR-01508: unable to close the current fileiH Invoking sqlplus, without a username/password, is supposed to prompt and wait for theL  username.  It comes up with the username prompt, and then immediately exits back to dclwJ  without waiting.  Invoking sqlplus with a username/password gets into the program, but thenaK  the sql> prompt then keeps appearing and scrolling up the screen as if youo were holdingH  down the RETURN key!  So, it seems to me these programs are acting like sys$input is not!  defined, or something like that. H Here's the kicker...everything works fine if you SET HOST into the node. SVRMGRL and   SQLPLUS both work as expected.e Argh!rE Everything else seems to work fine, any other program I run, just notg oracle.  I've triedfL logging in with /nocom, in case there was some interaction there, I've tried defining sysF $input, I've done this in oracle 7.3 and 8i, and I also booted off the backup copy of theL  system disk, to see if the problem was in oracle, but it worked fine there!E It seems to be some interaction with TELNET and oracle, but the tcpipc version DID NOT J change!  I also reinstalled tcpip 5.3 and the mup for 5.3, but that didn't change anything.H Oh, and I didn't have the mup in place right away, so this happened both with and without	  the mup.wK I've logged a call, but Colorado support is also not sure what else to lookp at.s  Does anyone here have any ideas? Thanks,u Ront   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:27:49 +0100-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>8 Subject: Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3D634F05.D8413A48@127.0.0.1>k   Toine Dirven wrote:w  F > I want to print barcodes on our laserprinters via our Alpha servers.I > I want to develop an application on OpenVMS that creates the postscripto > file.o, > I will print this file to an laserprinter./ > Has anyone examples or experience with this ?h2 > Where can I find postscript fonts for barcodes ? > Please help me.   E At the last place we certainly used barcode printing on a humble LA75gG for making swipe cards for a time and attendance system, and big labels F for pallets for stock tracking on a third party thermal printer. It isB simply a matter of selecting the right protocol for your barcoding5 printer, and the VMS print services will do the rest.r  G Obviously you'll need something to generate the barcode, but when I wasi8 doing the testing, I wrote a DCL to do it! (What else?!)   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:02:19 +0200p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 8 Subject: Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3D63571B.5A32BFA3@aaa.com>o  3 Many years ago, we used a MicroVAX 3100/90 to printl3 forms (Some with labels) for our picking-store. The-9 forms was designed using "JetForm Design" on a PC and theM9 compiled form was moved to the VMS system. The data filesi9 (created by a IBM mainframe batch system) was then merged 9 with the forms by "JetForm Merge for OpenVMS" and printedi< on a number of Laserjet 4's. Worked realy smooth. No changes; to the mainframe app, the datafiles was processed on VMS toe" match the JetForm datafile format.  9 Today, I'm not sure that JetForm Merge is still supportedt: on VMS. Realy sad, it was a nice and easy to use solution.: No problem with the barcodes, JetForm had support for most popular types.     Jan-Erik Sderholm.h   > Toine Dirven wrote:c > H > > I want to print barcodes on our laserprinters via our Alpha servers.K > > I want to develop an application on OpenVMS that creates the postscriptj	 > > file.w. > > I will print this file to an laserprinter.1 > > Has anyone examples or experience with this ?B4 > > Where can I find postscript fonts for barcodes ? > > Please help me.: >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:02:19 -0400e- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>l8 Subject: Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <ak0a23$1e5uae$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messageo! news:3D63571B.5A32BFA3@aaa.com...i5 > Many years ago, we used a MicroVAX 3100/90 to printn5 > forms (Some with labels) for our picking-store. Theo; > forms was designed using "JetForm Design" on a PC and thes; > compiled form was moved to the VMS system. The data filesl; > (created by a IBM mainframe batch system) was then mergedo; > with the forms by "JetForm Merge for OpenVMS" and printeda> > on a number of Laserjet 4's. Worked realy smooth. No changes= > to the mainframe app, the datafiles was processed on VMS tou$ > match the JetForm datafile format.  K In a previous life I did the same thing, only we modified the mainframe app ( a bit to make the JetForm report easier.  ; > Today, I'm not sure that JetForm Merge is still supportedt< > on VMS. Realy sad, it was a nice and easy to use solution.< > No problem with the barcodes, JetForm had support for most > popular types.  G Not long ago I suggested someone else use JetForm on VMS. They did some H research and told me that you could not buy a new JetForm on VMS licenseF anymore, but the product was still supported and available to existing> customers. It is very sad to see such a great product go away.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to..   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:33:59 -0400e6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>8 Subject: Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS4 Message-ID: <3D63C0F7.3080908@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   Toine Dirven wrote: 	  > Hello,n  >G  > I want to print barcodes on our laserprinters via our Alpha servers.-?  > I want to develop an application on OpenVMS that creates the   > postscript file.   H If you have total control of the application, then you have many options to choose from.s  D  > I will print this file to an laserprinter. Has anyone examples or  > experience with this ?r  L Yes, it has been a while, but I have a bit of experience in doing just that.  3  > Where can I find postscript fonts for barcodes ?i  G I am sure that they can be purchased from third parties.  However IIRC nG there is an example in one of the Adobe PostScript books that document  I how to write your own.  The Adobe books are available at many bookstores.t  H It did not take the programmer that did the fonts that I used very long  to create them.t  I It may even be possible to find suitable fonts on the Internet, but then  ' of course you will need to verify them.     > Please help me.  G Some of this depends on what printer model that you have, and how much vJ flexibility you have in your program, and how much that you need to print.  D Assuming that your printer is a generic PostScript printer, you can F either have your application download the font to the printer, or you > can put the font in a text library, and use a printer form to A automatically download the font to the printer as a setup module.l  H If you use the text library, then all your application needs to know is  the font name to use.0  I For some applications that only know about a fixed set of fonts, you can VF use the PostScript language in the font definition to substitute your 9 barcode font for a different font that you are not using.n  G Fixed graphics overlays and other special effects can also be stored inoF a printer text library and this simplifies the application as it only $ needs to invoke the overlay by name.  A Newer advanced printers do not need text libraries to store this i; information as you can load it on the printer's hard drive.e  I I do not have the sources of what I did before available to me, nor do I lC have the PostScript books, so the following is is in generic terms.   B I used printer device specific text libraries to hide differences I between printer models.  Input and output tray selection are some of the b@ things that are printer model specific.  No naming or numbering = convention can be relied on between different printer models.   @ Information on using text libraries can be found in the OpenVMS G documentation and in the "Ask the Wizard" web page.  Both can be found l0 from links off of http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  C The default space (dictionary?) to store fonts and other macros is eF usually too small, so you must create one to hold your fonts or other  definitions.  I Some graphics when changed to be PostScript Macros are too large for the fI printer to handle as a single macro, but can be manually broken up to be   smaller drawings.   H If you are downloading graphics to the printer, vector format is better B than bitmap, but make sure that you have removed all non-printing H information from the graphic.  The printer will take the time to render ; invisible lines and dots, and that time can be significant.Y  G Instead of sending the constant or frequently used parts of the output  D to the printer with each page, send them down to the printer at the E beginning of the print job as a macro, and then invoke the macros on tH each page of use.  This can have a big effect on the printing time.  It < also has a big effect on the size of the spooled print file.  F And when selecting a printer, be aware that some printers with a high E page per minute rate do not have a duty cycle that permits long runs. H Exceeding a printers duty cycle will sharply drive up maintenance costs.  F At a former site I found that some printers claimed they could handle D the needed printing rate, but the required number of sheets per day / exceeded the monthy duty cycle for the printer.g  I If you are printing in the thousand of sheets per day category, you will eE need industrial rated printers, and the paper quality and weight are aF very significant for the quality of output.  So are the environmental % conditions that the printers require.o  G Remember not to put high speed laser printers on uninterruptable power bH supplies unless you have done careful load calculations.  If several of H the printers enter the fusing cycle at the same time, it can overload a  power segment.   -Johnt malmberg@dskwld.zko.compaq.hpm Personal Opinion Onlyy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:22:29 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s8 Subject: Re: Printing barcodes via postscript on OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3D63CC51.868BE589@videotron.ca>   Peter Weaver wrote: I > Not long ago I suggested someone else use JetForm on VMS. They did somekJ > research and told me that you could not buy a new JetForm on VMS licenseH > anymore, but the product was still supported and available to existing@ > customers. It is very sad to see such a great product go away.  E Having done quite a bit of postscript, I find that one can generate aiB postscript "form" that is extremely easy to handle from a program.  L You'd have a postscript prologue which contains the definitions of the form,O and then the program would generate very simple "postscript" code for each pagee   eg:n   myheader_englishV (john doe) (123 elm street) (anytown, anystate) (anyzip) (800-555-1212) myform_english2 (Thank you for doing business with ACME) mymessage
 finishpage    C And when you have a french customer, you just call myheader_french,w" myform_french with the same data).  N Heck, one might even be able to write an XML parser in postscript and take XML? data "raw" from an application and then generate forms from it._   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 04:26:24 -0700% From: bart.zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)M2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE= Message-ID: <9a924482.0208210326.68d4067a@posting.google.com>"  v "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> wrote in message news:<5ek89.13701$7V6.43217@news-server.bigpond.net.au>... > Yep, > N > By the time your PIPE command is expanded by DCL it is too long.  A constantE > source of aggravation is the limitation DCL places on line lengths.E > $ > Here is some possible workarounds: > M >     o Replace the symbol P1 with a short logical name, so it doesn't expandu > inside the PIPE.N >     o The substatement "RECORD_COUNT == ..." should be entered on a separate > line.nK >     o The substatement "DEASSIGN/JOB ..." should be entered on a separate2 > line.n >  > Matt.R > --? > -------------------------------------------------------------F > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Hewlett-Packard Companyl > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAa? > -------------------------------------------------------------b >  > ; > "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@attbi.com.fubar> wrote in messagel) > news:c_e89.82122$983.91911@rwcrnsc53...OL > > I followed the thread that described how to count records using the PIPE > > facilityK > > and thought that the pipe command would make a good subroutine or smalla >  DCL > > sub-program. > > K > > I put a few extra lines of code together with the original DCL found ini >  the
 > > NG and itaN > > appeared to work fine until I ran across a file name that seemed to "break > > it". > >h4 > > Here is the routine (with some test code added): > >r > > $!? > > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inquire/nopunct p1 "Enter Filename: "t > > $ CALL COUNT  'p1' > > $ show symbol $statusu > > $ show symbol record_count
 > > $ EXIT" > > $!---------------------------- > > $COUNT:  SUBROUTINET > > $!$ > > $! Usage:  CALL count <filename> > > $! > > $! Description. > > $!   Returns: RECORD_COUNT (global symbol)- > > $!   Returns $status=2 if file not found.  > > $! > > $! > > $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO CEXIT > > $! > > $ PIPE   := "" > > $ SEARCH := "" > > $ WS := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT > > $! > > $ test = f$search(p1)N > > $ If test .eqs. ""
 > > $ Then > > $     ws ""tC > > $     ws "****************************************************">6 > > $     ws " %SUBCOUNT-E-FNF, FILE NOT FOUND: ''p1'"C > > $     ws "****************************************************"E > > $     ws ""i > > $     GOTO nfexite > > $ EndIfl > > $!3 > > $ RECORD_COUNT == 0  ! init global return value>( > > $ ws " Counting Records in ''p1'..."6 > > $ PIPE ( SEARCH 'p1' "" /noout/stat/match=nand | -5 > >            SEARCH SYS$PIPE "records searched" | -.H > >            ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$ &$TMP$ ) -, > >        ) ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,"E > > ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; DEASSIGN/JOB $TMP$I > > $! > > $ WS ""F= > > $ WS "%SUBCOUNT-I-CNT,''F$Fao(" Records counted in ''p1':s > > !AS",RECORD_COUNT)'" > > $! > > $CEXIT:F > > $ EXIT $status > > $! > > $NFEXIT:# > > $ EXIT 2 ! no file found for P1  > > $   ENDSUBROUTINE<      [ Snip ... ]I  E Another suggestion might be to move to last part of your PIPE, out of9C the PIPE. As soon as you have defined the JOB logical name, you can F terminate the PIPE because you have what you need. Further parsing can! be done in subsequent statements.7   HTH, s  	 Bart Zorn9   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:46:03 GMT " From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE& Message-ID: <3D63A60A.2B72AF26@hp.com>   Just as an FYI,o  L The next version of OpenVMS (code name Opal) will extend the DCL buffer fromK 255bytes to 4KB and the expansion buffer to 8KB. This will make the probleme reported here go away.  	 Guy Pelege OpenVMS DCL Engineeringl   Tom Simpson wrote:  J > I followed the thread that described how to count records using the PIPE
 > facilityM > and thought that the pipe command would make a good subroutine or small DCLo > sub-program. > M > I put a few extra lines of code together with the original DCL found in the  > NG and itcL > appeared to work fine until I ran across a file name that seemed to "break > it". >i2 > Here is the routine (with some test code added): >e > $!= > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inquire/nopunct p1 "Enter Filename: "S > $ CALL COUNT  'p1' > $ show symbol $statusv > $ show symbol record_count > $ EXIT  > $!---------------------------- > $COUNT:  SUBROUTINE  > $!" > $! Usage:  CALL count <filename> > $! > $! Description, > $!   Returns: RECORD_COUNT (global symbol)+ > $!   Returns $status=2 if file not found.d > $! > $! > $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO CEXIT > $! > $ PIPE   := "" > $ SEARCH := "" > $ WS := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT > $! > $ test = f$search(p1)v > $ If test .eqs. "" > $ Then
 > $     ws ""oA > $     ws "****************************************************" 4 > $     ws " %SUBCOUNT-E-FNF, FILE NOT FOUND: ''p1'"A > $     ws "****************************************************"e
 > $     ws ""n > $     GOTO nfexitt	 > $ EndIfh > $!1 > $ RECORD_COUNT == 0  ! init global return valueT& > $ ws " Counting Records in ''p1'..."4 > $ PIPE ( SEARCH 'p1' "" /noout/stat/match=nand | -3 >            SEARCH SYS$PIPE "records searched" | -gF >            ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$ &$TMP$ ) -* >        ) ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,"C > ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; DEASSIGN/JOB $TMP$e > $!	 > $ WS ""t; > $ WS "%SUBCOUNT-I-CNT,''F$Fao(" Records counted in ''p1':  > !AS",RECORD_COUNT)'" > $!	 > $CEXIT:n > $ EXIT $status > $!
 > $NFEXIT:! > $ EXIT 2 ! no file found for P1n > $   ENDSUBROUTINEe >c' > Here is the output from a failed run:n > ) > $ @sub_count DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS 4 >  Counting Records in DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS...6 > %DCL-W-TKNOVF, command element is too long - shortenJ >  \( SEARCH DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS "" /noout/stat/match=nand | SEARCH	 > SYS$PIPhG > E "records searched" | ( READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$0 > &$TMP$ ) )" >  ; RECORD_COUNT == F$element(2,"0 > ",f$edit(F$trnlnm("$TMP$"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")) ; > DEASSIGN/JOB $Ts >-= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  > address=000000000003( > 8248, PC=0000000000110001, PS=7FFAC130= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtualt > address=000000000000( > 000C, PC=0000000000010020, PS=00000000 >.M > If I rename the file DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.SUCCESS  to DLRIN:CB_COL_DLRIN.DAT,p# > the procedure runs without error.  > $ > Anybody know what's going on here? >aN > FYI - OpenVMS 7.2-1 Alpha, ES40, all "1" rated patches except for latest RMS
 > patch...   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:54:44 +0100 (MET)I9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE; Message-ID: <01KLKEXSYEN6970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  I > The next version of OpenVMS (code name Opal) will extend the DCL bufferhJ > from 255bytes to 4KB and the expansion buffer to 8KB. This will make the! > problem reported here go away.    C What numerical version does Opal correspond to and when will it be p
 available?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:35:59 -0400c1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>12 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE2 Message-ID: <3D63B35F.D91A5CE1@clarityconnect.com>  E The numerical number has not been assigned.  Schedules are subject toaE change so posting any dates would not be to anyone's benefit.  Thingsi0 are not laid in stone yet, only set in jello ;*)   Phillip Helbig wrote:s > K > > The next version of OpenVMS (code name Opal) will extend the DCL buffer L > > from 255bytes to 4KB and the expansion buffer to 8KB. This will make the" > > problem reported here go away. > D > What numerical version does Opal correspond to and when will it be > available?   -- aC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYF0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:34:41 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE; Message-ID: <01KLKGCPC3Q0970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  G > The numerical number has not been assigned.  Schedules are subject to-G > change so posting any dates would not be to anyone's benefit.  ThingsW2 > are not laid in stone yet, only set in jello ;*)  @ Sure, the usual uncertainties.  But what about a ROUGH ESTIMATE?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:07:06 -0400e1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>y2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE2 Message-ID: <3D63BAAA.315463B7@clarityconnect.com>  2 Rough estimate, sometime before December 31, 2003.   Phillip Helbig wrote:a > I > > The numerical number has not been assigned.  Schedules are subject to I > > change so posting any dates would not be to anyone's benefit.  Thingsn4 > > are not laid in stone yet, only set in jello ;*) > B > Sure, the usual uncertainties.  But what about a ROUGH ESTIMATE?   -- SC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYd0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 11:05:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE3 Message-ID: <6JDj7w+e5Cuc@eisner.encompasserve.org>F  w In article <01KLKGCPC3Q0970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:uH >> The numerical number has not been assigned.  Schedules are subject toH >> change so posting any dates would not be to anyone's benefit.  Things3 >> are not laid in stone yet, only set in jello ;*), > B > Sure, the usual uncertainties.  But what about a ROUGH ESTIMATE?  A My outside rough estimate is that the number will be greater than  7.3-1 and less than 9.0 :-)J   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2002 16:45:12 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)L Subject: Re: Proposal for DECUS US (was: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap6 Message-ID: <ak0g2o$1e3n90$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  4 Will they revive the old memberships automatically?? Member# 368513 Card still in my wallet!!  :-)   bill   -- yJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 11:12:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)sH Subject: Proposal for DECUS US (was: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap3 Message-ID: <QBhJyHc6RrcB@eisner.encompasserve.org>y   In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C7F8@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:M > Well, Terry is a sitting member of the Encompass board.  Terry what are thenM > obstacles to making this happen?  I thought that there might have been some * > difficulty with who owns the name DECUS?    / >> In article <3D628A8F.ACC8B4A4@videotron.ca>,i7 >>      JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:sI >> >                     So DECUS could be revived with a true mandate toh
 >> support >> > the ex-Digital products.h >> nA >> Would that include the PDP-11 and it's still active (and very   >> current) OSes?a >> o >> >? >> > Returning to "DECUS" on a worldwide basis would be a very x >> good thing.  ; Certainly that name is still used in the rest of the world.   G And if the "CETS" symposium can be jointly run by "Encompass" and "CSA"VD and "Compaq", certainly the "HPETS" conference can be jointly run by= "DECUS" and "<HP successor to CSA>" and "<HP-UX user group>".    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:56:54 -0400 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>i Subject: Roadshow update* Message-ID: <ak0gos$j68$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Dear Newsgroup,e  J The following is from the HP manager responsible for the Itanium roadshow.I This is in response to some of your questions and statments regarding theeA roadshow.  As soon as we have additional information we will posti   SuenL I'm assuming this is the newsgroup you mentioned to me in an earlier e-mail.J During some of my surfing in the newsgroup, I've found some things which I9 thought needed clarification, and I've listed them below.   L - First, the road show is being put on my the HP Americas U.S. Public SectorK Sales group. So I can't speak to what may or may not go on in the UK or any ( other part of the world for that matter.  L - Because the Public Sector group is doing the road show, this would explainG why commercial customers did not hear about it via a printed and mailedm invitation.u  K - Again because it's a Public Sector thing, the cities selected are not thec= usual, rather they are beneficial to the Public Sector group.   K - The tag line "with OpenVMS there is not question" is only the half of thewI marketing tag. The first half is "to re-boot or not to re-boot". When putbK together, I think they convey what OpenVMS is all about. They are not meantn to convey anything separately.  I - A second phase is planned with city and date selection almost complete.m   Thanks,g  
 Mark Langfordt    BCS Business Development Manager   U.S. Public Sector Sales   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:40:06 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: Simple cluster ; Message-ID: <01KLK59JGDKY9LVCGS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>b  K > Thanks to all that have helped so far.  Gosh, I thought this was going torJ > be a simple question (see previous message below).  Discussions I've hadH > offline indicate that maybe I should state this "problem" differently. > B > I'd like to set up a cluster with the following characteristics: > F > 1. Continue operation if one CPU fails -- eg, memory, device driver,M > software, etc.  No one CPU is a preferred boot or file server if that makest > things easier.1 > 2. Continue operation if one system disk fails.yI > 3. A single system disk (therefore probably shadowed due to 2 above) tog > minimize management tasks. > K > The only thing folks agree on so far is I need three CPUs, one vote each.r  > So how do I hook in the disks?  G My suggestion: Have three machines.  Have TWO physical disks as system eH disks on each machine, as a shadow set.  Why not a shared system disk?  H With separate ones, you can do a rolling upgrade.  It's not really more E in terms of management tasks, since you can still set up each system -D disk (shadow set actually) AS IF it were shared, i.e. with multiple G roots etc.  Thus, in case you do DELETE SYS$SYSTEM:*.*;* on one shadow a@ set, you can just use (a copy of) the other one without changing anything.  :-) r  E For non-system disks, make them shadow sets with the physical drives y7 connected to different machines.  MSCP serve the disks.   D You can have two "main machines" and a third "quorum machine" which H doesn't need to have anything connected to it except its system disks.  E It can thus be a slow, cheap, old machine.  (It could even be a VAX.)   E Have all applications run as batch jobs in generic queues coded such dF that they restart at the proper place if the batch job gets restarted G and/or run cluster-capable applications (such as a web server) on both l nodes simultaneously.   C Use a cluster alias so that users don't have to know or care which y  system they actually connect to.  7 Note that you don't need DECnet for the cluster itself.M  K > As an aside, I find it curious that this system doesn't have a "standard"lI > solution.  I'd think this is a commonly requested option.  Am I way offvI > axis here?  Perhaps this configuration doesn't improve reliability.  Myo  > intuition may be way off here.  H Well, there is a huge range of possible configurations, a huge range of * requirements, and a huge range of budgets.  D Note that with my suggestion, you don't need any dual-ported disks, F since the shadow sets consist of MSCP-served disks.  However, this is G not the best solution, performance-wise, since I/O is over the network sE (which in this "cheap" configuration would also be carrying the LAVC  G stuff) and limited by its speed (10 MB/s in a "cheap" configuration)?  sD You did say "simple and cheap", though, right?  If performance is a F problem, start with this setup and upgrade to fancier disks as needed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:59:35 -0700"6 From: "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net> Subject: Re: Simple clustere Message-ID: <3d639d8b@nubby2.>  K If you are looking for cheap you could maybe get a used HSZ40 or HSZ50 RAID-K array controller. This would allow you to share all your disks and to use apJ quorum disk instead of a computer for the 3rd vote, giving you the kind of! availability you are looking for.-   Cheers, Howard  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KLK59JGDKY9LVCGS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... J > > Thanks to all that have helped so far.  Gosh, I thought this was going toL > > be a simple question (see previous message below).  Discussions I've hadJ > > offline indicate that maybe I should state this "problem" differently. > >hD > > I'd like to set up a cluster with the following characteristics: > > H > > 1. Continue operation if one CPU fails -- eg, memory, device driver,I > > software, etc.  No one CPU is a preferred boot or file server if that  makesp > > things easier.3 > > 2. Continue operation if one system disk fails. K > > 3. A single system disk (therefore probably shadowed due to 2 above) to  > > minimize management tasks. > > G > > The only thing folks agree on so far is I need three CPUs, one vote  each. " > > So how do I hook in the disks? >DH > My suggestion: Have three machines.  Have TWO physical disks as systemH > disks on each machine, as a shadow set.  Why not a shared system disk?I > With separate ones, you can do a rolling upgrade.  It's not really moreaF > in terms of management tasks, since you can still set up each systemE > disk (shadow set actually) AS IF it were shared, i.e. with multiple H > roots etc.  Thus, in case you do DELETE SYS$SYSTEM:*.*;* on one shadowB > set, you can just use (a copy of) the other one without changing > anything.  :-) > F > For non-system disks, make them shadow sets with the physical drives9 > connected to different machines.  MSCP serve the disks.  >'E > You can have two "main machines" and a third "quorum machine" which H > doesn't need to have anything connected to it except its system disks.G > It can thus be a slow, cheap, old machine.  (It could even be a VAX.)t >tF > Have all applications run as batch jobs in generic queues coded suchG > that they restart at the proper place if the batch job gets restarted H > and/or run cluster-capable applications (such as a web server) on both > nodes simultaneously.! > D > Use a cluster alias so that users don't have to know or care which" > system they actually connect to. > 9 > Note that you don't need DECnet for the cluster itself.e >eB > > As an aside, I find it curious that this system doesn't have a
 "standard"K > > solution.  I'd think this is a commonly requested option.  Am I way offtK > > axis here?  Perhaps this configuration doesn't improve reliability.  MyM" > > intuition may be way off here. > I > Well, there is a huge range of possible configurations, a huge range ofB, > requirements, and a huge range of budgets. >rE > Note that with my suggestion, you don't need any dual-ported disks,tG > since the shadow sets consist of MSCP-served disks.  However, this iseH > not the best solution, performance-wise, since I/O is over the networkF > (which in this "cheap" configuration would also be carrying the LAVCG > stuff) and limited by its speed (10 MB/s in a "cheap" configuration)?eE > You did say "simple and cheap", though, right?  If performance is arH > problem, start with this setup and upgrade to fancier disks as needed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:56:57 +0200e" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Simple cluster:6 Message-ID: <ak0d8g$1dp3pq$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  @ "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht7 news:cf15391e.0208201514.5a51b879@posting.google.com...-/ > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message!2 news:<aju2pt$1du8t5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>...I > > rule 1 for a quorum disk is that it must be directly connected to thei hostsnJ > > that have it defined as their quorum disk. Directly connected includes HSx J > > disks and RF disks. Rule 2 is that only one quorum disk may be present in a > > cluster.J > > The direct consequence of these rules is that your NI cluster can have onlyL > > one disk, attached to the node that you'd like to be up should the other > > node fail. >*H > It would be better to simply give a second vote to the node itself, in5 > this case, rather than having a quorum disk at all.r0 > ----------------------------------------------K That depends. The votes of a quorum disk are not used unless quorum is lost L without counting them. The means that expectedvotes may have a smaller valueK and allow both nodes to boot as the first node in the cluster. It sometimes$" simplifies the written procedures.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:58:24 +0200a" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Simple clusterC6 Message-ID: <ak0db6$1dr701$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  @ "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht7 news:cf15391e.0208201512.4752294e@posting.google.com...L/ > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message_2 news:<aju2pt$1du8t5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>...I > > rule 1 for a quorum disk is that it must be directly connected to thet hostsnJ > > that have it defined as their quorum disk. Directly connected includes HSx/ > > disks and RF disks.$ >)3 > ...plus SCSI disks in a multi-host configuration.n  I Even then they're directly connected to a controller that sits in a host. L The HSC's, HSJ's etc are separate and tend to confuse people when words like directly connected are used.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:36:48 +0100=( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Simple clusterm( Message-ID: <3D63C1A0.D4BBD48@127.0.0.1>   Hans Vlems wrote:T  J > > It would be better to simply give a second vote to the node itself, in7 > > this case, rather than having a quorum disk at all.d2 > > ----------------------------------------------M > That depends. The votes of a quorum disk are not used unless quorum is lost N > without counting them. The means that expectedvotes may have a smaller valueM > and allow both nodes to boot as the first node in the cluster. It sometimese$ > simplifies the written procedures.  G Not quite. I've waxed lyrical about dynamic quorum and static quorum ontC here before which has implications for reconfigurations and cluexitr4 selections. It is detailed in Vaxcluster Principles.  D Keith is right that in an NI only cluster, give the vote to the vote# serving system, this is documented.5  E Bill gave you a suggestion about giving one system two votes, and Rob:H about using IPC (if you read that far enough) about dynamically changing quorum "on the fly".  H What was alluded to was a SCSI cluster, and with the correct controllers? and attached devices you can have between 2 and 4 systems, with F controllers on separate IDs on later versions of VMS, and one of theseF disks can be a quorum disk, but do also check out documentation aroundH the Port Allocation Class. You also have the option of adding further NIF (network) interconnects. Guidelines for OpenVMS Cluster Configurations= is the place to look for your version of VMS for more ideas. a  B In summary, not really that simple, because a simple solution with9 existing kit won't fit your demanding requirements, but afF straight-forward solution should, but it's likely you've have to think? wider than two single vote nodes and a single NI interconnect. 2   -- 4? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot comP   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:04:02 +0200v9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e% Subject: Size of logical name table ? ' Message-ID: <3D636592.E45A4F23@aaa.com>e   Hi.o2 I have a batch oriented application where each job1 open and read ("scan") a configuration file. It'st3 a textfile with aprox 1350 lines and each line have-3 a "key"/"value" pair. The value is always a string. 1 The current size (combined key/value size) of thet( config file is 75 blocks or aprox 35 Kb.  2 Each batch job scans this file at least once, some, several times, using open/read/close in DCL.  7 Now, to make things run faster, I'm thinking of loadingh9 this configration data into a (app specific) logical nameb6 table. The "key" will be the name of each logical name8 and the "value" will be the content of the logical. I'll8 change the routine that updated the config file, so that7 the table also will be updated, and also make sure thato the table is "loaded" on boot.  : My batch routines will then just lookup a specific logical. instead of scanning a text file for the "key".  8 I'v been searching on what system or process resourse or2 quota limits the size of, or the number of entries3 in, a logical name table. I'v seen that you can usej5 the /QUOTA switch to limit the size, but if not used,-3 the docs says that the size is "unlimited", well...t  % Anyone seeing any problem with this ?b Or any other drawback ?g   Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 08:00:38 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?i3 Message-ID: <48L3SXYsjhfs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3D636592.E45A4F23@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:eC [snip description of taking 75 kbyte config file of key value pairs >  and encoding them in application-specific logical name table]' > Anyone seeing any problem with this ?( > Or any other drawback ?R  K No.  Looks sound.  There are a number of major applications that do exactly ; this kind of thing.  Tapesys/SLS is one that comes to mind.e  E The physical storage for logical name tables comes out of paged pool.l? 75 kilobytes is probably no more than a drop in the bucket.  No- serious worries there.  8 Should work fine and be a significant performance boost.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2002 10:01:55 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.312514.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)-) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?r. Message-ID: <RaWolVzBwFvL@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  T In article <48L3SXYsjhfs@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:e > In article <3D636592.E45A4F23@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:rE > [snip description of taking 75 kbyte config file of key value pairs @ >  and encoding them in application-specific logical name table]( >> Anyone seeing any problem with this ? >> Or any other drawback ? > M > No.  Looks sound.  There are a number of major applications that do exactlyl= > this kind of thing.  Tapesys/SLS is one that comes to mind.. > G > The physical storage for logical name tables comes out of paged pool.vA > 75 kilobytes is probably no more than a drop in the bucket.  Noc > serious worries there. > : > Should work fine and be a significant performance boost.  J And it's also trivial to code, both in DCL and from within a program.  TheG logical name services have a table name parameter, as does the f$trnlnm & DCL lexical wrapped around sys$trnlnm.  
 For instance,t  E $ mtype_default = f$trnlnm("default_media_type","lnm$tapesys_values")f     -- nO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxr: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)oO ===============================================================================.= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?e5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:41:04 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?w' Message-ID: <3D63B490.845BEAC8@aaa.com>   4 Yes, I saw no problem in actualy *using* the method,A just checking there is no problem with a large number of logicals  in the same table...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h   Wayne Sewell wrote:t > L > And it's also trivial to code, both in DCL and from within a program.  TheI > logical name services have a table name parameter, as does the f$trnlnmt( > DCL lexical wrapped around sys$trnlnm. >  > For instance,s > G > $ mtype_default = f$trnlnm("default_media_type","lnm$tapesys_values")a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:03:09 +1000t@ From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: tcpware smtpo< Message-ID: <3d636575$0$29909$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   5.4-3S  I I think I have a call logged with you guys, but its getting on for 5 dayso now.  G I guess your answer is coing be, this is no longer supported - upgrade. E Not really an option, unless I get some kind of assurance that my oldr( legacy application isn't going to break!  F I am intending on putting on the SMTP patch 543p080 in the next couple	 of weeks.d     cheers   antony        8 "Michael Corbett" <corbett@PROCESS.COM> wrote in message$ news:3D629A8A.4070901@PROCESS.COM... Antony Wardle wrote:   > Hi >o< > Is there a configuration switch that I can turn on to stop3 > tcpwares smtp from keeping a copy of sent e-mailsl > in a spool directory?  >u8 > Or do I need to write something to clean it up myself? >p >c >t > antony >o >w >   J It should not keep copies of sent files in the spool directory.  Something8 is wrong on your system.  What version of TCPware is it?   regardsi Mike     --K +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+sD Michael Corbett                           Email: Corbett@process.comB Process Software                          Phone: 800 722-7770 x369B 959 Concord St.                                  508 879-6994 x369= Framingham MA 01701-4682                  FAX:   508 879-0042    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:23:39 -0400y+ From: Michael Corbett <corbett@PROCESS.COM>n Subject: Re: tcpware smtpg( Message-ID: <3D63CC9B.40900@PROCESS.COM>   Antony Wardle wrote:   > 5.4-3l > K > I think I have a call logged with you guys, but its getting on for 5 daysh > now. > I > I guess your answer is coing be, this is no longer supported - upgrade.eG > Not really an option, unless I get some kind of assurance that my old * > legacy application isn't going to break!   > H > I am intending on putting on the SMTP patch 543p080 in the next couple > of weeks.  >  >     * Turn on debugging for the SMTP symbionts -  0 $ define/sys/exec tcpware_smtp_sybmiont_log true  A This will create a TCPWARE:TCPWARE_SMTP_LOG.<queue-name> for each > SMTP queue.  Then search the log file for the files names thatB are getting left in the spool directory and see they give any clue$ why the files are being left around.   regardsr Mike   -- rK +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+tD Michael Corbett                           Email: Corbett@process.comB Process Software                          Phone: 800 722-7770 x369B 959 Concord St.                                  508 879-6994 x369= Framingham MA 01701-4682                  FAX:   508 879-0042    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 03:15:57 -0400?( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?y, Message-ID: <3D633E2D.4010302@tsoft-inc.com>   David Michaels wrote:   ? >>connection also.  Now all you need is an mmj cable -- too badt8 >>those are rarer than chicken teeth.  Maybe someone can >>follow up with a source.   >> > 2 > My Boss has a bag of about 20 mmj connectors.... > J > He also has a pair of crimpers to go with them. The last time I tried toH > find the connectors on google I searched for "mmj crimpers" instead ofG > "mmj connectors"...and I seem to be getting pretty close... If anyone 5 > wants the name of the crimper manufacture email me.e >  >  > David Michaels > dmichaels@acm.org  >   J Any company supplying cables should have both cables as well as the wire, 4 connectors, and tools.  If you can't find them, try:  1 Cabco - 724-864-3400  (I think that's the number)D	 Black Box@/ South Hills, no, they were bought by black box.d I've seen others.S  " The people at Cabco are excellant.   Dave  7 PS - for a single cable, bug me.  I have all the stuff.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:31:46 -0400i; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>i) Subject: RE: total VMS newbie - pointers?tK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA0D@rlghncst964.usps.gov>n   Ha!     : I've got an AMP crimp tool with MMJ die installed thereon.
 Serious tool.    *AND* connectors, to boot.  4 I'll go have a look at the box and see who made 'em.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----5 From: "David Michaels" [mailto:michaedi@email.uc.edu] ( Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 1:22 AM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" ) Subject: RE: total VMS newbie - pointers?     ? > connection also.  Now all you need is an mmj cable -- too bad 8 > those are rarer than chicken teeth.  Maybe someone can > follow up with a source.  0 My Boss has a bag of about 20 mmj connectors....  H He also has a pair of crimpers to go with them. The last time I tried toF find the connectors on google I searched for "mmj crimpers" instead ofE "mmj connectors"...and I seem to be getting pretty close... If anyones3 wants the name of the crimper manufacture email me.      David Michaels dmichaels@acm.orga   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:34:27 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?t) Message-ID: <3D6396E3.6090C359@127.0.0.1>e  $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote: >  > Ha!  > < > I've got an AMP crimp tool with MMJ die installed thereon. > Serious tool.p >  > *AND* connectors, to boot. > 6 > I'll go have a look at the box and see who made 'em.   Surely it was AMP?  G Seriously, in the UK, CPC sell the flat 6 way cable, MMJs and crimpers.   
 www.cpc.co.uke   -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:25:43 GMTh. From: Michael Rice <MichaelARice@adelphia.net>) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?q+ Message-ID: <3D63BFEC.4020001@adelphia.net>p   JF Mezei wrote:b > re: finding MMJ connectors > K > Don't catalogues such as BLACK BOX or even INMAC still have those  ? TheyuE > carry all sorts of esoteric rare stuff such as those IBM token ringw4 > connectors, so MMJ wouldn't be so bizarre to them. > N > Another outfit to look at is perhaps DATAPRO (www.datapro.com if I rememeber > well).  8 Yes, Black Box has MMJ cables, connectors, and adapters.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:30:16 -0400x- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p) Subject: Re: total VMS newbie - pointers?e, Message-ID: <3D63C018.AC785684@videotron.ca>   re: finding MMJ connectors  I Don't catalogues such as BLACK BOX or even INMAC still have those  ? TheytC carry all sorts of esoteric rare stuff such as those IBM token ringc2 connectors, so MMJ wouldn't be so bizarre to them.  L Another outfit to look at is perhaps DATAPRO (www.datapro.com if I rememeber well).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:43:59 +0100 & From: David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com>) Subject: VAX/Alpha Basic example programsaS Message-ID: <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE418E@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>s   Greeting all,   I I find myself in the position of needing to write a routine in VAX-BASIC.2K Quite honestly, it's been sometime since I have done this and was wonderingSG if anyone knows of a good site with some example programs.  The OpenVMS J documentation site gives small code snippets but not what I'm looking for.  F I'm trying to include an .RRD file in the basic program as output fromG Oracle RMU/UNLOAD.  We have BASIC but nobody has ever used it, hence no.7 source code to look through.  We also do NOT have CDD. y   XDS_APACHE> typ cw.rrd3 DEFINE FIELD LAST_NAME DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 14.c4 DEFINE FIELD FIRST_NAME DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 10.. DEFINE FIELD DBKEY DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 8. DEFINE RECORD CANDIDATES_VW.    LAST_NAME .    FIRST_NAME .e END CANDIDATES_VW RECORD.    Thanks in advance, i 	David.    OpenVMS 7.1 (alpha)' DEC/COMPAQ/HP BASIC V1.3     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:38:04 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>n- Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs-6 Message-ID: <ak0c53$1ev8e6$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>  3 "David Gray" <GrayD@turpinltd.com> wrote in message L news:79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE418E@zakary.turpin-distribution.com.. .  >o > Greeting all,o >aK > I find myself in the position of needing to write a routine in VAX-BASIC.uC > Quite honestly, it's been sometime since I have done this and was8	 wondering I > if anyone knows of a good site with some example programs.  The OpenVMSDL > documentation site gives small code snippets but not what I'm looking for.  9 I don't know anything about RRD files, but try looking at4L SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.RDB*]*.BAS. Depending on what else8 you have on the box there may be other examples, try DIR SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000...]*.BAS.t   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:49:36 +0100d& From: David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com>- Subject: RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programsoS Message-ID: <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE4190@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>-  A Had a look, nothing of any help in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000...]*.BASnL Might be that whoever installed BASIC choose not to install example files orJ decided to get rid of them.  Like I said it's installed but has never been used.  d   Thanks anyway, t 	David       -----Original Message-----3 From: Peter Weaver [mailto:peter.weaver@stelco.ca] - Sent: 21 August 2002 16:38 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comq- Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs   3 "David Gray" <GrayD@turpinltd.com> wrote in messageaL news:79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE418E@zakary.turpin-distribution.com.. .l >e > Greeting all,  >iK > I find myself in the position of needing to write a routine in VAX-BASIC.iC > Quite honestly, it's been sometime since I have done this and wasr	 wonderingaI > if anyone knows of a good site with some example programs.  The OpenVMS L > documentation site gives small code snippets but not what I'm looking for.  9 I don't know anything about RRD files, but try looking atoL SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.RDB*]*.BAS. Depending on what else8 you have on the box there may be other examples, try DIR SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000...]*.BAS.I   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:14:40 GMTu! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>a- Subject: RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programso> Message-ID: <Xns92717C4294E49acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  4 David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com> enlightened us withC news:79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE4190@zakary.turpin-distributt	 ion.com: x  $ > Had a look, nothing of any help in@ > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000...]*.BAS Might be that whoever installedA > BASIC choose not to install example files or decided to get ridlA > of them.  Like I said it's installed but has never been used.  g  @ Hmmm.... does Compaq BASIC have many examples ? I have Basic 1.5C installed on my Alpha and I don't see much in the way of examples: -   $ set default sys$examples $ show default   SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES] #   =   SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]F"   =   SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES] $ dir [...]*.bas  & Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]  ( BACKDEF.BAS;1       BAPIDEF.BAS;1          Total of 2 files.d  + Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW]u  ? BASIC$HELLOMOTIF.BAS;4                  BASIC$MOTIFBURGER.BAS;4o( BASIC$MOTIFBURGER_DEFS.BAS;4               Total of 3 files.j  & Grand total of 2 directories, 5 files.  - Not exactly a plethora of official examples. ,  A personally, I would love to see some Compaq Secure Web Server CGIo? script examples in BASIC. (The included examples in C, Perl and  DCL don't help much) i     -Andy-  h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:31:05 +0100 & From: David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com>- Subject: RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programsaS Message-ID: <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE4193@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>f  L That's exactly what I have.  Have spent ages trolling around the web most of( the time stumbling on broken links.  :(    Thanks anyway.	 	David.  e   -----Original Message-----) From: Andy [mailto:acs@fcgnet.works.net]   Sent: 21 August 2002 17:15 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - Subject: RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programsl  4 David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com> enlightened us withC news:79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE4190@zakary.turpin-distribut-	 ion.com: -  $ > Had a look, nothing of any help in@ > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000...]*.BAS Might be that whoever installedA > BASIC choose not to install example files or decided to get rid A > of them.  Like I said it's installed but has never been used.  =  @ Hmmm.... does Compaq BASIC have many examples ? I have Basic 1.5C installed on my Alpha and I don't see much in the way of examples: o   $ set default sys$examples $ show default   SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]a#   =   SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]u"   =   SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES] $ dir [...]*.bas  & Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]  ( BACKDEF.BAS;1       BAPIDEF.BAS;1          Total of 2 files.n  + Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW]t  ? BASIC$HELLOMOTIF.BAS;4                  BASIC$MOTIFBURGER.BAS;4r( BASIC$MOTIFBURGER_DEFS.BAS;4               Total of 3 files.   & Grand total of 2 directories, 5 files.  - Not exactly a plethora of official examples.    A personally, I would love to see some Compaq Secure Web Server CGIc? script examples in BASIC. (The included examples in C, Perl anda DCL don't help much) n     -Andy-  X   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 11:50:31 -0600- From: frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie)k- Subject: RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programst3 Message-ID: <ouueNNpImN70@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  | In article <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE4193@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>, David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com> writes:N > That's exactly what I have.  Have spent ages trolling around the web most of* > the time stumbling on broken links.  :(  >  > Thanks anyway. > 	David.  h  I 	Perhaps we can help you here.  This group is currently suffering a lack o of technical discourse.  ;-)I 	I used to write pretty heavily in Vax-Basic, and might even remember it  O still.  I never used RDU, or whatever, but can probably help you with standard sM Basic syntax.  It didn't seem clear how you want to use that RDU snippet you eO posted in your original note.  Did you mean you want to "include" it literally  N in your Basic code to define a file structure?  Or you want to have the basic " program read that in and parse it?   Sharon   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:09:40 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS in M$ adh( Message-ID: <3D6374F4.17879DC@127.0.0.1>   Syltrem wrote: >  > I'd like to see that too!n  A I've failed to be able to get an email thorough to you even after=* eliminating the zulus on several attempts.   I have placed them here:  ' http://www.python.demon.co.uk/msad1.jpgW' http://www.python.demon.co.uk/msad2.jpgk   Explanatory text:i  7 I had to scan these in at 90 degrees to normal viewing.u  C I did this so they could be printed portrait and then rotated aftera printing and joining.:  4 Top edge of MSAD1 joins to bottom edge of MSAD2. The8 diagram in question appears in MSAD2 lower right in this
 orientation.    " The joined edges form  "1 degree".  " i.e. a 1 and a [COMPOSE] [0] [^].   H Note that I have not had permission to post or redistribute these scans,E I'll state here this is purely for review purposes, and I will removeo$ them within 28 days of this message. -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:59:35 GMTe) From: "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com>a& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion5 Message-ID: <Xns92715B7D43F1jknoxtrisoftcom@10.0.0.1>c  * nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () wrote in! news:H15zn9.L7r@news.boeing.com: p  H > as I said - a large undertaking; so I'm puzzled why the VAX VMS 7.3 asC > an intermediate step is not an option; is it operational scale ort+ > other software or production risk or ???;e  G I think part of it is "terminology."  In the lab we can do anything we pF want.  However, we would have to buy several old VAX-8600's, complete D with disk clusters and star couplers, in order to replicate the key F parts of the existing system.  The existing system can not be touched I until any replacement has been shown to be fully operational - that is a a! good year's effort all by itself.r  G So we *could* upgrade the VAX systems to 7.3, but it would take a year sH or more, much money, (would blow our schedule), and just doesn't appear H to make sense -- spending all that time and money to validate something ! that we have no real interest in.m  &     	    	    	    	    	    	    	jmk  F PS:  About now you are probably reading this and thinking "What's the H deal?  It shouldn't take more than an hour to boot everything under 7.3 D and see if it works."   I agree - but that's not how it's DONE!  <G>  / ----------------------------------------------- 
 James M. Knox / TriSoft                        ph  512-385-0316r/ 1109-A Shady Lane              fax 512-366-43318/ Austin, Tx 78721              jknox@trisoft.coma/ -----------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:51:21 +0100 (MET)99 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.t; Message-ID: <01KLK3XH76BM9LVCGS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  F > > > I think I just made a *manual* MOUNT of the second disk into theI > > > system shadow set, and after that, VMS has taken care of it at eachn
 > > > reboot.a > > 
 > > Right. > I > Why does VMS remount all members of a system shadow set "automatically" G > without any specific mount command during startup ? Sounds to me likee$ > something that is very dangerous,   H Note that the documentation points out dangers of having MOUNT commands C for additional shadow-set members of the system disk in the startupt	 sequence.o  . > especially after a failure where YOU want to( > decide which disk is to become master.  H In that case, you can always turn of shadowing and boot from a specific  physical disk, if you want.   A > Also, what happens when other system shadow set members are noteH > available at boot time and become available minutes later when anotherI > node reboots ? Does the shadow set automatically "regroup" its drives ? / > or does that require manual MOUNT commands ? -  D The whole purpose of shadowing (well, the main purpose) is to guard I against data loss due to disk failure.  Thus, I doubt that any danger is e# introduced by the automatic mounts..   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2002 08:15:42 -06002 From: cochrane@encompasserve.org (Arthur Cochrane)3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.a3 Message-ID: <snTcdufg01q$@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  H     Upgradeing a shadow set system disk has never been a problem for me.     This is from memory but:  L     On VAX you have to boot the system disk with shadowing disabled and do aG     minimum boot I thought to run the upgrade. When the system does theaG     autogen and reboots shadowing will be enabled BUT VMS will know thecJ     booted system disk has no other shadow set members since it was bootedI     minimum with shadowing disabled (clearing the shadow information from      the booted disk).   J     On Alpha to do the upgrade you have to boot the CD and select the diskI     to upgrade. Again when VMS boots the shadow information on the bootedaD     disk is cleared from the upgrade mounting so no addtional shadow     members are mounted.  J     After the upgrade is confirmed to be preforming OK then a manual mountF     to add the additional shadow set members is done. After the shadowG     copy is finished then on the next reboot VMS will mount all membersv     into the shadow set.  G     What am I missing?  Shadowing does not play a part in VMS upgrades.o       Arthur Cochrane'   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:46:04 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>i3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk. ' Message-ID: <3D63999C.7A7B821D@aaa.com>:  < So you mean, forget about the shadowing, just shutdown, boot= the 7.3-1 CD, perform the upgrade, and reboot the system fromi the new system disk ?o  ; Will the upgrade disable shadowing on the new system disk ?t= And also "save" a copy of my old system on the "other" disk ?w  @ Or will shadowing be preserved through the upgrade process ? AndB a shadowing copy be initiatet on first boot from disk of 7.3-1 and. then destrying my "saved" second system disk ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm   Arthur Cochrane wrote: > L >     On Alpha to do the upgrade you have to boot the CD and select the diskK >     to upgrade. Again when VMS boots the shadow information on the booted F >     disk is cleared from the upgrade mounting so no addtional shadow >     members are mounted. > L >     After the upgrade is confirmed to be preforming OK then a manual mountH >     to add the additional shadow set members is done. After the shadowI >     copy is finished then on the next reboot VMS will mount all membersa >     into the shadow set. > I >     What am I missing?  Shadowing does not play a part in VMS upgrades.a >  >     Arthur Cochrane    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:05:56 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.R; Message-ID: <01KLKD7PYIG6970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>0  > > So you mean, forget about the shadowing, just shutdown, boot? > the 7.3-1 CD, perform the upgrade, and reboot the system fromv > the new system disk ?  > = > Will the upgrade disable shadowing on the new system disk ?o? > And also "save" a copy of my old system on the "other" disk ?u > B > Or will shadowing be preserved through the upgrade process ? AndD > a shadowing copy be initiatet on first boot from disk of 7.3-1 and0 > then destrying my "saved" second system disk ?  F You cannot specify a shadow set as the target.  You have to specify a E physical disk.  I'm sure of this.  Whether or not you have to disablev' shadowing by hand is another question. s   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:30:40 +0000 (UTC)a- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)o3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk. . Message-ID: <ak086g$ijh$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes in article <3D63999C.7A7B821D@aaa.com> dated Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:46:04 +0200:= >So you mean, forget about the shadowing, just shutdown, bootp> >the 7.3-1 CD, perform the upgrade, and reboot the system from >the new system disk ?  F That's the drill.  You might have to use the "Execute DCL commands andL procedures" option to manually mount the disk (/OVER=SHADOW) first.  Be sureL that any "old" shadow members are dismounted from the cluster before bootingI the upgraded one.  That will mean shutting down any other nodes which arebH booted from the shadow set.  If you want a consistent audit trail on theJ system disk, you should actually shut those nodes down at the beginning of the upgrade.  I There are fancier ways of doing the upgrade -- you could effectively do a_I rolling upgrade by changing the volume name AND unit number of the shadowEA set, for example.  But it's a lot more work and easy to screw up.K  < >Will the upgrade disable shadowing on the new system disk ?  L If you have SHADOW_SYS_DISK and other related parameters set up correctly in6 MODPARAMS.DAT, they will be correct after the upgrade.  > >And also "save" a copy of my old system on the "other" disk ?  K If there's a command in the startup procedures that adds that physical disk:9 into the shadow set, you'll lose the "old" system disk.  8  A >Or will shadowing be preserved through the upgrade process ? AndwC >a shadowing copy be initiatet on first boot from disk of 7.3-1 andt/ >then destrying my "saved" second system disk ?o  L The bootable VMS CD has no idea where to find your other shadow members.  It4 will only write to the physical disk you tell it to.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgw> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:44:00 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.B2 Message-ID: <QGN89.15$Tx7.153743@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <3D615C36.9FF91760@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  >Hi all.* >Just to check that I'm "on track", is the >following scenario OK ? >o, >- AS1200 system with shadowed system disk :F >  DSA10:     Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       4934070   613   18 >  $1$DKB0:   ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA10:)8 >  $1$DKC0:   ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA10:) >17 >DKB0: is the BOOTDEV_DEF (or DEFBOOT_DEV or whatever).i4 >DKC0: is the "second" disk in the DSA10 shadow set. >I< >Goal : to upgrade one of the disk and still having a way of6 >backing out to the old version without going to tape.  B Please read and follow the instructions in the OpenVMS Upgrade and@ Installation Manual, including the instruction to make a backup.@ When followed correctly, these instructions work, and provide a I way of backing out.  This is what has been tested by OpenVMS Engineering.p  > Other ways of upgrading may work sometimes -- or they may not.> They may also leave you with subtle problems that you will not> recognize for some time -- at which point "backing out" may be a serious problem.  F The best way I know for "backing out to the old version without going $ to tape" is an image backup on disk.   --  G     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:46:49 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>D3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.v, Message-ID: <3D63C3F7.3D5AC26A@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:,E > The whole purpose of shadowing (well, the main purpose) is to guard-J > against data loss due to disk failure.  Thus, I doubt that any danger is% > introduced by the automatic mounts.r  G Yes, some of those dangers of mounts in systartup were outlined before.2J However, I would still be more comfortable if there was a way to control aP system drive shadowset either during sysboot or during early stages of the boot.  K I realise that the big advantage of having all drives auto-mounted into theCM shadowset at once is that it removes the need for copy/merge operations whichl4 would happen if drives were manually added later on.  N In my mind, I always first think of shadowed drives in different locations forN a disaster recovery scheme, not 2 drives side by side. I guess I would have toQ really work out exactly what the impact if this and how two systems would behave.Y  
 For instance:M  M you have two machines. Each is set to boot from their own drive which happens H to form a shadowset with each other. Machine 1 would boot first, not seeN machine 2's system drive and thus form a one member DSA10 shadowset. Machine 2J would boot second, would it immediatly see machine 1's drive (AND existingN DSA10) or would MSCP served devices appear much later in the boot process ? IfN it doesn't see the machine 1 ,s drives right away, it would form its own DSA10E shadowset with its own drive, and what happens later ? You'd have the & equivalent of a partitioned shadowset.  K I guess in such a case, would the only safe method be to always have one of-M the 2 machines boot from machine 1 (via ethernet) ? This way, it would ensure G that system drives are not partitioned into two independant shadowsets.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:15:29 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.s, Message-ID: <3D63CAAE.98FD20F5@videotron.ca>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:iN > The bootable VMS CD has no idea where to find your other shadow members.  It6 > will only write to the physical disk you tell it to.  N Not quite related to shadowing itself, but on alpha, when you boot from CD andL execute the upgrade from it, is it able to do an autogen of your real systemH disk ? Or is that accomplished as a second phase of an upgrade when yourL system is rebooted from its real system disk with a different /STARTUP which( executes the remainder of the upgrade ?   M In the later case, having the right settings in modparams and sysgen in termsS3 of shadowed sytstem drives would be very important.n   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:20:39 +0100 (MET)m9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 3 Subject: Re: VMS upgrade with shadowed system disk.Y; Message-ID: <01KLKJYQ8PFI970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>H  B > In my mind, I always first think of shadowed drives in differentG > locations for a disaster recovery scheme, not 2 drives side by side. T    Assuming MSCP-served disks here:  I For data drives, yes (and connected to different nodes, of course).  For  H system disks, better to have two disks (both members of the shadow set) H on each node.  Here, it's just to prevent data loss due to disk crash.  F If the node hosting the other disk fails, then you have no shadow set.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:31:05 -0400-+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>r- Subject: Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?u8 Message-ID: <5fj7muoepfnjt7ja39gmdfog3ognlntf1t@4ax.com>  @ On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:08:11 -0700, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> wrote:  T >Actually that was one of the strengths of OpenVMS is that you could write come codeS >in Fortran and some in C and then link them together into one executable.  Use the  >best of both worlds.   D You can do this on most platforms.  It happens to be somewhat easierE on OpenVMS than on some other platforms, due to a farsighted decisionc= to architect a common calling standard and a language-neutralcF environment, but the mixing of Fortran and C is very common just about everywhere.l      D Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com   Steve Lionel Software Products Division Intel CorporationD
 Nashua, NH  : Intel Fortran for Windows and Compaq Visual Fortran forum:6   http://intel.forums.liveworld.com/forum.jsp?forum=76 Intel Fortran for Linux forum:7   http://intel.forums.liveworld.com/forum.jsp?forum=121e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.460 ************************