1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 22 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 462       Contents: Re: .CLD questions.  Re: .CLD questions. 2 Re: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233. Re: Cheapest way to repair/replace tape drives$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full DuplexE DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acceptable) docs ONLINE? I Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acceptable) docs ONLINE? I Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acceptable) docs ONLINE? ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap ' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap  Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re:  HP-CompaP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP RE: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaq" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly& Re: installation using VMSINSTAL fails& Re: installation using VMSINSTAL fails& Re: installation using VMSINSTAL fails& Re: installation using VMSINSTAL fails& Re: installation using VMSINSTAL fails2 Re: Installing new RF36 Hard disk in VAX 4000 105A* Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? LN17ps Ethernet  Re: LN17ps Ethernet  Re: Network World Article  Re: Network World Article  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP " Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download" Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download" Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download" Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download" Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download RE: Oracle (and OT: Hong Kong)% RE: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1 ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE  Products incl in NAS package. ! Re: Products incl in NAS package. ! Re: Products incl in NAS package. P re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acc" Reading VAX VMS backup tapes on PC rename c rtl bug Re: Roadshow update  RE: Roadshow update 3 Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD 7 Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD   Re: Size of logical name table ?  Re: Size of logical name table ?  Re: Size of logical name table ?  Re: Size of logical name table ? Re: tcpware smtp# Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 # Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 # Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 # Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 # Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 $ Re: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion $ Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?$ Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95? RE: XFC v2 ECO, negative report  Re: XFC v2 ECO, negative report   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 07:48:15 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) Subject: Re: .CLD questions.= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0208220648.4ed8f7de@posting.google.com>   x "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My-Full-Name@intel-com.spam-ban> wrote in message news:<3D63F9C2.1837EE26@intel-com.spam-ban>... > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > 8 > > Have a CLD question.... and no, this isn't homework. > > E > > I want to create a .CLD so the program has the follwing behavior.  > > G > > /FILE=filespec    { filespec other than default. Always an option } I > > /HTML             { switch to format output in html format. Only good  > > /LIST } 8 > > /CREATE           { switch to create new data file }5 > > /OUTPUT=filespec  { filespec to send output to. } L > > /LIST[=username]  { to output a user, if only one is specified. Or all }6 > >                   { if no username is specified. } > > # > > /MODIFY=username/field=newvalue  > > L > >                   { command to modify a given user's data. "username" isK > >                   { required. At least one /field=newvalue is required.  > > } F >                 { "field" is a field in the data file, "newvalue" is > > } 5 > >                   { the new value to set it at. }  > > 8 > > /MODIFY, /LIST, and /CREATE are mutually exlclusive.) > > /CREATE prohibits /HTML, and /OUTPUT.  > > 2 > > Here's the .CLD file I've come up with so far. > >  > > DEFINE VERB DBACCESSF > >         IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS" >  > Comment-out the IMAGE line...  >  > >  > >         NOPARAMETERSC > >         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) E > >         QUALIFIER OUTPUT, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE) * > >         QUALIFIER CREATE, NONNEGATABLE( > >         QUALIFIER HTML, NONNEGATABLE? > >         QUALIFIER MODIFY, NONNEGATABLE,SYNTAX=MODIFY_SYNTAX C > >         QUALIFIER LIST, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) / > >         DISALLOW ANY2(CREATE, MODIFY, LIST) & > >         DISALLOW CREATE AND OUTPUT$ > >         DISALLOW CREATE AND HTML > >  > > DEFINE SYNTAX MODIFY_SYNTAX C > >         QUALIFIER FILE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$FILE)  > >         QUALIFIER MODIFY, 4 > > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) > >         QUALIFIER USERNAME, 4 > > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) > >         QUALIFIER PASSWORD, 4 > > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) > >         QUALIFIER EMAIL,4 > > NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING)L > >         QUALIFIER PRIV, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,LIST,TYPE=PRIV_VALS)I > >         QUALIFIER EXPIRE, NONNEGATABLE,VALUE(REQUIRED,TYPE=$DATETIME)  > >  > > DEFINE TYPE PRIV_VALS $ > >         KEYWORD ADMIN, NEGATABLE# > >         KEYWORD BASE, NEGATABLE % > >         KEYWORD CREATE, NEGATABLE & > >         KEYWORD DISABLE, NEGATABLE > > ' > > The datafile is structured as such:  > > % > > username:       char[some-length] % > > password:       char[some-length] % > > email:          char[some-length]  > > privileges:     bitmap > > expire date:    datetime > >  > > How does it look?  > > ( > > When I wish to create an obj module: > > % > > $ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLD  > >  > > I get the message: > > K > > %CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating an  > > object file  > B >     VAXMAN answered this, but missed the point that you actually= > _don't_ need a MODULE statement.  You do need to REMOVE, or = > comment-out, the IMAGE statement.  That's what's giving the # > conflict with SET COMMAND/OBJECT.  > A >     If you omit a MODULE statement, the name of the module will @ > be the name of the .CLD file, e.g., DBACCESS.  That may or may7 > not be desirable.  It's common to use something like,  >  >     MODULE DBACCESS_CLD  >     VERB DBACCESS 	 >     ...  > ? > Then if you insert this in an object library, the Module name @ > will be DBACCESS_CLD (and will coexist with a subroutine named > DBACCESS, for example).  >  > F > > I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don't > > understand. / > > It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH:  > > 
 > > Quote: > >  > > ROUTINE routine-name > > G > >      Symbol that specifies a routine the command calls to create an 
 > > object, > > module from the command definition file. > > I > >      The routine-name provides the name of a routine that is executed  > > when > > CLI$DISPATCH is called.  > > A > >      If you do not specify a routine, no default is provided.  > >  > > Unquote: > > J > > What routine? A function within my program? I just don't get this one. > D >     As others have said, the CDU facility is structured to _allow_D > calling CLI$DISPATCH, e.g., id your different syntaxes are handledG > by different routines.  If you're like me, and you're going to handle C > all the command input in one routine, you don't need CLI$DISPATCH B > nor any Routine clauses.  Now I used to have some nice examples,@ > but they're all on a TK87 at home...  Let me cook an _inexact_= > example (in Fortran, OK? No wise cracks!).  Something like,  >  >     PROGRAM DBACCESS	 >     ...  >     EXTERNAL LIB$GET_INPUTF >     EXTERNAL DBACCESS_CLD    ! Automatically loads the compiled .CLD1 >                              ! from the library  >     CHARACTER*256 CMD  > 3 >     Call Lib$Get_Foreign(CMD, 'DBACCESS> ', LCMD) @ >     Call Cli$Dcl_Parse('DBACCESS '//CMD(1:lCMD), DBACCESS_CLD,D >    >                   Lib$Get_Input, Lib$Get_Input, 'DBACCESS> ') >     Call DBA_PARSE	 >     ...  > N > Of course, I haven't done any checking of return status from Lib$Get_Foreign > L > or Cli$Dcl_Parse, and I haven't checked whether the user actually supplied0 > and input into CMD, but this is just a sketch. > G >     Note that you need to _prepend_ the verb string, DBACCESS, to the H > beginning of the string you send to Cli$Dcl_Parse.  Once Cli$Dcl_ParseG > is done, you call the routine you've written to retrieve command line H > parameters and qualifiers, I called it DBA_PARSE here, and within that: > routine you make calls to Cli$Present and Cli$Get_Value. > E >     When written as above, the image operates "as expected" whether G > invoked by a verb in DCLTABLES (with a .CLD that _includes_ the IMAGE L > clause), or via a foreign command ($DBA*ACCESS=="$dev:[dir]DBACCESS.EXE"),H > or by $ MCR dev:[dir]DBACCESS, or via DCL$PATH:.  That makes gives theF > system manager who will be installing this utility flexibility as to? > how s/he wants to deploy it.  (It's also useful for testing.)  >   E A good example, Ken.  This is EXACTLY what I am talking about...  The F flexibility, as you mention, beats the other solutions in my opinion. C Why make SET COMMAND mandatory?  Link the ensuing CLD object to the D image, and let the end user decide on the various deployment options specified above.  A (I wasn't aware that the MODULE clause was optional, but it makes ? sense considering other defaulting behaviors elsewhere in VMS.)   E >     Caveat emptor: it's been more than a couple of years since I've F >                    done any CLD/CLI programming, so there may errors( >                    in certain details.  C No, this is exactly how I've done it mirades of programs.  ('cept I E still do nearly all my programming in MACRO-32... Can't get away from C it.  It's too easy...)  You may have meant EXTERNAL LIB$GET_FOREIGN E instead of EXTERNAL LIB$GET_INPUT since you called LIB$GET_FOREIGN in B your example, but I don't sight-read FORTRAN as well as some other@ langs.  (The prompting routine in LIB$GET_FOREIGN of course usesB LIB$GET_INPUT, so maybe that's why you have EXTERNAL LIB$GET_INPUTD instead of EXTERNAL LIB$GET_FOREIGN?)  Otherwise, your example is my6 recommended approach to CLD usage in a case like this.   Chris  -----  Chris Olive  colive(at)technologEase(dot)com    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 07:57:37 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) Subject: Re: .CLD questions.= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0208220657.4269b1e6@posting.google.com>   q colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) wrote in message news:<b10654c6.0208211450.324c9417@posting.google.com>... e > lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote in message news:<ak02ig$i8d$1@newslocal.mitre.org>...  > > Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes in article <3D632EB4.4320B097@pressenter.com> dated Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:09:57 -0500: > > >DEFINE VERB DBACCESS G > > >        IMAGE "USER01:[MGR.LBARTELS.PROGRAMMING.DATABASE]DBACCESS"  >   & > > >$ SET COMMAND/OBJECT DBACCESS.CLD > > >  > > >I get the message:  > > > L > > >%CDU-E-ROUTREQ, Line 2: A ROUTINE clause is required when generating an > > >object file > > > G > > >I don't understand that. I've been reading the manual, and I don't  > > >understand.0 > > >It talks about a routine with CLI$DISPATCH: > > K > > There are 2 ways to use CLI, and you're using elements of both of them.  > F > These are 2 *popular* ways to use CLI...  There is another I use allH > the time, that I prefer, and which the original poster may prefer.  ItB > closely parallels the VAXman explanation (which is always eitherE > textbook perfect or, if not, isn't in ANY "textbook"!)...  Read on.  > N > > 1.  Creating a command at the DCL level, you use "SET COMMAND" without theH > > /OBJECT qualifier.  Then inside your program (specified in the IMAGEO > > clause), you can use CLI$PRESENT, CLI$GET_VALUE, etc. to read the parameter  > > values.  > > G > > 2.  Creating a command to use inside your application, you use "SET N > > COMMAND/OBJECT" and link the .OBJ file in with the program.  Then when youO > > call CLI$DISPATCH, it "calls" your CLI which in turn calls whatever ROUTINE  > > you specify. > G > 3. [To original poster]: Use the MODULE clause as VAXman said.  Leave F > the IMAGE clause out; you are going to link the ensuing image objectH > with the CLI object created from SET COMMAND/OBJECT, so you don't need? > the IMAGE clause.  Inside your CLD, set your MODULE clause as D > 'DBACCESS'. Inside your program assign an external variable to theD > name of your CLD module.  When you run the program, you either getF > your DCL foreign command line (via LIB$GET_FOREIGN) or other commandF > line (via LIB$GET_INPUT as VAXman said), and append it to the stringH > 'DBACCESS '.  (I think the space is necessary, but I can't remember --H > I always have it.)  Then call CLI$DCL_PARSE using an external variableA > in your image that refers to the module name you chose, and the > > appended DCL string.  After that you don't even need to callE > CLI$DISPATCH if you don't want to.  I never do.  All your other CLI H > calls work (CLI$PRESENT, CLI$GET_VALUE, etc) as if the command were inF > the command tables.  You must set your image up as a foreign commandH > in order to use this method.  (DBACCESS :== $ddcu:[directory]DBACCESS) >   D As I read Ken Fairfield's example, I realized my previous post was aD bit off the mark.  The approach above, left as is, would likely have< had link problems (I'm thinking) with two identifiers calledE 'DBACCESS' (one from the image and on from the CLD object.)  If I had D looked at an example I had done before I posted, I would have caughtA this.  The statement above "set your MODULE clause as 'DBACCESS'" F should have read: "set your MODULE clause as 'DBACCESS_CLD'" (or leave? it blank as Ken said.)  The rest of this follows along as Ken's # example in FORTRAN in another post.   B > This is my preferred method for using CLI/CLD because it doesn'tF > require someone (esp. on utilities I post for public consumption) toB > install a command into the command tables (either system-wide orD > process specific.)  This method, IMO, is simpler than all the rest@ > (and much simpler than it sounds) and straight forward with no# > CLI$DISPATCHing necessary either.  > H > I use CLI$DISPATCH only if I am getting input via LIB$GET_INPUT from a. > "utility" command prompt.  (Ie. DBACCESS> ). > E > I can provide you with an example in your language of choice if you C > want...  (Please don't pick COBOL! 8(  And I don't have access to H > BASIC or BLISS.  I think I have most everything else available to me.)   Chris  -----  Chris Olive  colive(at)technologEase(dot)com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:43:18 +0200 , From: aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus); Subject: Re: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233 D Message-ID: <aus-2208021143180001@wvia20.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>  D It seems the hardware jumper information is incorrect. I was able to" switch to the OpenVMS boot consol.   --  B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:57:22 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>7 Subject: Re: Cheapest way to repair/replace tape drives ) Message-ID: <3D64A772.53AA2E95@127.0.0.1>    Iskandar Hussein wrote:  > l > tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<ea44f5a1.0208210709.58bf862d@posting.google.com>...= > > Four of our Alphas have external SCSI tape drives, TLZ06.  > > > > > I have been paying $325 to UNIDATA for a fixed rate repair > > or replace service.  > >u& > > Any suggestions for a cheaper way? > H > I got a good deal with Data Storage Distribution in West Covina,CA...IH > bought 4 unit of TLZ06-AA for 299 each...you can check the web site at* > http://www.datastoragedistribution.com/.  G I bought a TLZ06-DA at a car boot sale (garage sale) for around $3 (two  quid)!  = No guarantee, no warranty, but it works, for my hobby system.I  F In a rummage box I found a TK50 with Pathworks 4.1 the other week... IE left it there. However, the 12V switched mode PSU was a DOA. Some youc win...   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesp nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:48:41 +1000s* From: James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com>- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplexe9 Message-ID: <pan.2002.08.22.16.34.15.389206.24834@hp.com>c  ; On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:01:21 +1000, Robert Deininger wrote:pH > Look up the cards that are supported on the platform.  Check with yourI > favorite used equipement dealer, or watch ebay for a few weeks.  If youmJ > could get 4 or 5 used NICs, with non-DOA guarantee, for $100, would your > management let you buy?V  H I was able to get ten DE500 from an Australian outback computer shop whoH had stripped them from second-hand office PCs before sale to consumers. A They had no use for them.  I had to pay about one dollar US each.4  B The PCs (266MHz or so) went for about $USD 400 each, configured as1 complete systems.  Pricing is nuts out here.  ;-)q   --
 James Cameronw   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:20:40 +0000 (UTC)s  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplexv* Message-ID: <ak23c8$pq1$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  + James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com> wrote: = : On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:01:21 +1000, Robert Deininger wrote:mI :> Look up the cards that are supported on the platform.  Check with yournJ :> favorite used equipement dealer, or watch ebay for a few weeks.  If youK :> could get 4 or 5 used NICs, with non-DOA guarantee, for $100, would yourn :> management let you buy?  J : I was able to get ten DE500 from an Australian outback computer shop whoJ : had stripped them from second-hand office PCs before sale to consumers. C : They had no use for them.  I had to pay about one dollar US each.S  D : The PCs (266MHz or so) went for about $USD 400 each, configured as3 : complete systems.  Pricing is nuts out here.  ;-)   - *sigh* I had to buy half a dozen from the US.i YMMV :)t   D. --  % " I don't get mad.... I get stabby. "r - William "Fat Tony" Williams.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:12:59 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>p- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex 8 Message-ID: <2gh9mu05jvjrj6i08t9dhnfsq0mek2psnj@4ax.com>  @ On 21 Aug 2002 18:29:22 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:9   >EC >  DE500 series or DE600 series are required for Fast Ethernet, and-A >  specific members of the DE500 series NICs are supported on the- >  AlphaServer 2100A series.  F I would add make sure that firmware is at latest revisions and VMS andE any relevant VMS patches are installed. We had no end of trouble with F duplex negotiation on our ES40s which were only worked around reliablyD by locking to 100Mb/s half-duplex. However I had another go recentlyF and we now seem to reliably work with "set ewa0_mode auto".  I believe3 firmware and VMS patches both addressed this issue.t   >lB >  Per the hardware configuration support search engine (availableC >  at the AlphaServer website; http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/),tD >  the DE101 is not supported on this platform; members of the DE400D >  series are the oldest supported Ethernet NICs.  (I'd be surprisedB >  to hear that these DE101 NICs were ever officially supported on@ >  this platform, as these NICs even very were old back when the1 >  AlphaServer 2100A series was itself released.)f >d >wO > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------rO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    rO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comM   -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:31:41 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full DuplexR+ Message-ID: <ak2p3t$ld4$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>A  ` In article <2gh9mu05jvjrj6i08t9dhnfsq0mek2psnj@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:A >On 21 Aug 2002 18:29:22 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff, >Hoffman) wrote: >  >>D >>  DE500 series or DE600 series are required for Fast Ethernet, andB >>  specific members of the DE500 series NICs are supported on the >>  AlphaServer 2100A series.O >YG >I would add make sure that firmware is at latest revisions and VMS andTF >any relevant VMS patches are installed. We had no end of trouble withG >duplex negotiation on our ES40s which were only worked around reliablyCE >by locking to 100Mb/s half-duplex. However I had another go recentlyLG >and we now seem to reliably work with "set ewa0_mode auto".  I believeE4 >firmware and VMS patches both addressed this issue. >SL Ethernet cards and auto-negotiation are a constant problem. The usual adviseJ is to have everything set to a fixed value eg  100Mb/s full-duplex and not  to have any devices set to auto.L However on some TRu64 V5.1a ES45s we recently purchased the only way to get D them to run at 100Mb Full duplex was to set them to that speed with G set ewao_mode fastfd  but to have the switch port set to autonegotiate.$N It appears the ES45 cards always did a autonegotiate on boot whatever you set  them to.   >>C >>  Per the hardware configuration support search engine (available D >>  at the AlphaServer website; http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/),E >>  the DE101 is not supported on this platform; members of the DE400dE >>  series are the oldest supported Ethernet NICs.  (I'd be surprised C >>  to hear that these DE101 NICs were ever officially supported onoA >>  this platform, as these NICs even very were old back when the 2 >>  AlphaServer 2100A series was itself released.) >>  H     Is this actually an Alphaserver 2100A or the older Alphaserver 2100.G     My documentation for early Alpha 2100s mentions the following EISA u     ethernet card option :-c  M     DE422-SA    (Digital systems and options catalogue April 1994 supplement)-     %     and a PCI ethernet card option :-n  N     DE435-AA    (Digital systems and options catalogue April 1994 supplement)      5     These were some of the very earliest Alpha 2100s.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >>P >> ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >>      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >> --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >>   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >  >--n >Aland   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 2002 13:43:12 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)sN Subject: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acceptable) docs ONLINE?, Message-ID: <ak2ppg$19e0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>  C Discovered that in their infinite wisdom, nobody bothered to securehC DOCUMENTATION for DECC here.  While we've got the v6.2-008 compileryJ on OpenVMS v7.2-1h1, and v5.9-011 on Tru64 v4f(?), the only documentation F I can find still has the "d|i|g|i|t|a|l" logo prominently appearing on  the cover and is dated May 1994.  C I'm trying to write a program for OpenVMS which, hopefully, will beiC compilation-only portable to Tru64, and as such would prefer to useeK the (relatively new?) function putenv() instead of a call to LIB$SET_SYMBOL J in the code.  But the best I can find for CURRENT documentation on this is doing a    	$ help cc run-time putenv  
 which yields:      	CCo   	  Run-time_functions    	    putenv?  & 	       Set an environmental variable.   	       Syntax:E  ! 	             #include <stdlib.h>T  . 	             int putenv (const char *string);  L That's all well & good, and looking at the man page for the same function onG Tru64 I see that the syntax of the "string" is "name=value" which makes> perfect sense.  I But in Tru64, doing such an action effects the environment of the PARENT, E so that when the program that called the putenv() function exits, theRI environment variable specified does indeed exist and have that value, anduI can be used by subsequent aspects of the shell, or by subsequently callede	 programs.a  L In OpenVMS, no such symbol and/or logical appears to exist after the programL exits.  I can't find any further documentation to describe how to insure theJ symbol and/or logical (subsequently retrievable in DCL and/or a subsequent5 program's call to getenv()) will be available to use.n  G The likelyhood of the powers-that-be here can get said desired, CURRENTtK (rather than 8-year-old) documentation available to me on a timely basis iswL pretty slim.  Any idea where I might find such current documentation in HTMLB or PDF or ascii text anywhere on the web?  Yes, I've already triedK www.compaq.com but they don't seem to have much more than marketting blurbsC for C and C++ there.  i  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560e2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's closeeC | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't closei: | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]s3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> eJ <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAIL  	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:01:21 -0500G7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>BR Subject: Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acceptable) docs ONLINE?G Message-ID: <craigberry-5B416C.09012122082002@news.directvinternet.com>E  , In article <ak2ppg$19e0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>,?  jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) wrote:o  A >  Any idea where I might find such current documentation in HTMLiD > or PDF or ascii text anywhere on the web?  Yes, I've already triedM > www.compaq.com but they don't seem to have much more than marketting blurbsi > for C and C++ there.  = <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/index_alpha.html>2  B The electronic docs would also be on the media that came with the H compiler and on the OpenVMS documentation CD-ROM that comes with the OS F distribution.  Note that 6.5 is current so docs to 6.2 may be hard to  come by.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 2002 15:52:29 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)mR Subject: Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acceptable) docs ONLINE?, Message-ID: <ak31bt$1cso@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>   In article <craigberry-5B416C.09012122082002@news.directvinternet.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> writes:R- ~In article <ak2ppg$19e0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, @ ~ jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) wrote: ~nB ~>  Any idea where I might find such current documentation in HTMLE ~> or PDF or ascii text anywhere on the web?  Yes, I've already triedyN ~> www.compaq.com but they don't seem to have much more than marketting blurbs ~> for C and C++ there.I ~e> ~<http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/index_alpha.html>  B 	Indeed, the docs on the media are what I meant would be difficultA 	to get up and running.  The folks here responsible for that part"B 	of system support are not too "supportive" if you catch my drift.      <off-subject, kind-of>tJ         Followed this URL (thanks) and found it to be very disappointinglyN         anti-Netscape v4.79.  Worked great in IE and in Netscape v6.2, but gotG         nothing displayed for the individual document links in NS 4.79.lK         Since we've got lots of heavily <LAYER></LAYER> depended HTML here,eH         I tend to stick with the browser that supports that code.  WhileF         there are some rudimentary documents available to guide one inI         building work-with-either-NSv4-IEv4+ dynamic websites, there haveeK         yet to appear to be ones that also document the equivalent how-to'srK         for W3C/NS6.x, so it's a pain to get to the cited URL and then have          to change browsers...e    </off-subject, kind-of>  N         Anyhow, not only do I not find in these documents, but I also not findG         in some hardcopy docs (dated 1998 and refer to DECC v6.0 that aLL         coworker dusted off for me) anything more to suggest what SHOULD andL         SHOULD NOT be expected to work when using putenv().  Or setenv() forI         that matter [found THAT one once I perused that hardcopy docset].   J         While getenv() for OpenVMS seems to clearly be able to access bothN         DCL-presented SYMBOLS (LOCAL and GLOBAL) and LOGICAL NAMES in the sameM         way that getenv() for Unix accesses Shell-based ENVIRONMENT VARIABLESkK         and make their values accessible to a running program, and putenv()aJ         for Unix [Tru64] clearly is able to allow a running program to putN         a variable out for later use in the same shell script that invoked theK         program, I can't seem to find any of the environment variables thatoM         my OpenVMS-based putenv() calls are creating after the program exits.   J         Even these docs sited by Craig here fail to address this question.M         IS IT EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK?  Or should I rewrite that chunk of code,          to have:           	#ifdef VMSo9         	 ...	//	Use LIB$SET_SYMBOL to create the desiredu         		//		GLOBAL symbol(s)         	#else?         	 ...	//	Use putenv() to create the desired environmentx         		//		variablese         	#endifs  I         instead of my current desired and implemented, but failing, code:n  <         	 ... 	//	Use putenv() to create the desired OpenVMS-         		//		GLOBAL symbol(s) or the desiredt,         		//		Tru64 environment variables...    C ~The electronic docs would also be on the media that came with the nI ~compiler and on the OpenVMS documentation CD-ROM that comes with the OS sG ~distribution.  Note that 6.5 is current so docs to 6.2 may be hard to i	 ~come by.n  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's close C | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't closev: | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]r3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> hJ <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAILs 	/ \   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:05:40 +0000 (UTC)o From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap+ Message-ID: <ak2gi3$inr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>n  o In article <ieT89.119518$2p2.5387332@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:s >i; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messageo' >news:3D63FE39.4E2801CD@videotron.ca...i >> Bill Todd wrote:.3 >> > > Cruft could be worked out of an existing OS.n >> >L >> > Not if you wanted to remain backward-compatible.  That's the differenceL >> > between Keith's comment about 'compatible with the core VMS values' and >an  >> > evolution of VMS itself.m >>G >> Does VMS really contain such significant "cruft" because it is old ?h >wJ >Yes.  A lot of it results from considering 1 MB to be a typical amount ofE >memory and a few hundred MB to be a typical amount of disk.  More, IpH >suspect, results from considering a few VUPs to be a typical processor. >aN I doubt that gradually removing those limitations would, if done in a sensibleM manner, have much impact on backwards compatibility. Have Unix systems (which6M are much older than VMS and have had to also maintain backwards compatibilityiM - sometimes in really nasty ways such as the shadow password fix ) not had totL overcome similar early design decisions. When systems are as old as VMS (or J UNIX) it is inevitable that the decisions taken early on determined by theM available hardware at that time will now be inappropriate. That doesn't mean iG that the whole OS needs to be thrown out rather than making incrementalC changes.M The news that the DCL buffer sizes will be increased in a near future version J of VMS is a case in point. So long is it handled in a reasonable manner it< should not cause any major backwards compatibility problems.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >>L >> I seem to recall that much of the so called "cruft" is really a strategicL >> decision not to embark on fancy tricks that enhance speed because they do >not >> garantee data integrity.  >nI >You recall incorrectly.  The combination of significant additional speedc6 >with uncompromised integrity is eminently achievable. >  >....r > H >> On the other hand, VMS's old cruft does include many nice tricks that	 >other OSsG >> don't have which do make it posisble to have high performance stuff.  >(global, >> sections, installed images for instance). >nM >So what?  No one was suggesting deliberately crippling the new system in theoL >few areas where other systems may not offer equivalent facilities to VMS's. >r >- billS >  >h >C   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:21:33 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap+ Message-ID: <ak2hft$inr$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <rdeininger-2108022140270001@1cust211.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:6 >In article <3D63FE39.4E2801CD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >m >>Bill Todd wrote:2 >>> > Cruft could be worked out of an existing OS. >>> K >>> Not if you wanted to remain backward-compatible.  That's the difference0N >>> between Keith's comment about 'compatible with the core VMS values' and an >>> evolution of VMS itself. >>F >>Does VMS really contain such significant "cruft" because it is old ? >>K >>I seem to recall that much of the so called "cruft" is really a strategic O >>decision not to embark on fancy tricks that enhance speed because they do notnP >>garantee data integrity. VMS is VMS because it has the quality, data integrityO >>and is trustable, not because it is fast. The fact that it ran on the world'saP >>fastest chip did compensate to some extent its performance weaknesses, so whenL >>it moves to IA64, its performance may look bad versus HP's other products. >pL >An illustration of the sort of performance problems that "cruft" can cause: >fC >It is a goal of VMS to allow programs built on earlier versions toe9 >continue working on later versions, without recompiling.c >lH >There are a number of places in VMS where user-written code shares dataD >structures with the OS.  These structures are typically defined via >compile-time symbols. >-K >The old structures were designed to be compact; some date back to the dayseH >of the 256 kB VAX 11/785.  Items that would be quadwords (or larger) ifG >defined today were defined as bytes or words 25 years ago.  This often(I >results in items in the structures being misaligned on an alpha system.  ' >There can be a big performance impact.  >eD >In some cases, new structures can be implemented while the old onesD >continue in  exist for old programs.  Some structures have internalI >versioning, so the OS can adapt to various versions automagically.  ThenjK >just recompiling with the latest symbols definitions brings a user programGJ >up to date.  In other cases, the user's source code would have to change,K >setting a new bit or switch or whatever.  Either way, the OS likely has tomH >deal with interactions between both the old and the new simultaneously,< >since not every user image will be rebuilt on the same day. >eB Surely a lot of this was taken care of when people moved to Alpha.? All their code had to be either recompiled or run through VEST.w  6 Alpha code was not designed to run on old VAX systems.M Although much of VMS is common between VAX and Alpha. Alpha is a 64bit systemr hence many structures changed.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    K >If you could force a complete rebuild of all VMS code, you could "fix" alltA >the old data structures.  But that isn't possible within the VMSn >philosphy.n >eE >Having said all that, I think there are MANY places where VMS can bea4 >improved a lot while still retaining compatibility.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:13:51 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrappera8 Message-ID: <u579muoq23udvshh62i0aom3c2a12bh97g@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:40:45 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"v <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >iG >Hardly lends credence to one's "credentials" (notice the similarity ofo5 >the words? Think they may share a common heritage?).t  , Latin - Credo, Credere (verb) : I/To Believe     -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:50:31 GMTp1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> % Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperi. Message-ID: <H_599.195148$UU1.35931@sccrnsc03>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D646586.E3F2C170@videotron.ca... > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:K > > but fails to reflect it. One possible extension of that might be had HPeK > > said, "Likewise, no operating system is more critical HP's relationship H > > with its enterprise customers than VMS. Thus, no operating system is4 > > more critical to the future of HP than OpenVMS." >0! > Why not something as simple as:a >eL > <carly> We *now* recognise the superior technical strengths of VMS as well asL > the importance VMS plays at our customer sites and think that VMS gives HP aeA > key technological differentiator that will move HP ahead of its- competitors.J > We therefore intend to grow the VMS marketplace which has been neglected in> > the past. VMS is good for our customers, VMS is good for HP.
 > </carly> >-F > When you see great potential on a product, there is no need to put a timelineL > to it by making public commitments to support it for X years etc etc. This is, > why you don't see commitments for Windows,  8 Hmmm... how long ago was support for Windoze 95 dropped?  ? And how long until support for the Windoze 98 virus is dropped?r  I But you are right, I don't see IBM making any commitments to OS/390. They  don't have to!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:41:08 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re:  HP-CompalB Message-ID: <Uk299.128273$2p2.5826639@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3D644075.8F39152@videotron.ca...I > Keith Parris wrote:oF > > failover VMS cluster users are accustomed to with HBVS.  Even withG > > StorageWorks DRM, the minimum time they advise folks to plan for toe( > > complete the failover is 15 minutes. >xC > How come it wouldn't be automatic ? What would take 15 minutes to( accomplish ?  I While it would be possible to build an active/active local/remote storagenH product that a distributed VMS cluster could address like a pair of HBVSH disks, such a product would be usable only by VMS.  So (especially givenI that VMS already provides such facilities via HBVS) it's more likely thatnI StorageWorks built a general-purpose product that consists of a master ataK one end that everyone talks to and a slave at the other that will keep yourb3 data available should the master suffer a disaster.s  I That means that 1) the disaster must be verified to have occurred (rather H than, e.g., the connecting link just got dug up by a backhoe) and 2) theH remote site must be brought up as a running system (it wasn't part of anF already-running cluster).  That, after all, is what 'fail-over' is, asI distinct from the continuing operation that simple redundancy can provided> when integrated into the running cluster.  Now, if you have anF already-running system at the far end that can immediately acquire theK slaved storage array as instructed by an on-going heartbeat mechanism (overbG redundant network links) that can unambiguously identify the conditions+J under which fail-over should occur, fail-over times should be reducible toF something like a second - but both of those features are not under the control of the storage vendor.   >eK > Also, are there storage array products that provide volume shadowing that:. > really works across buildings and are safe ?  E Of course there are.  But I suspect the only ones that integrate such J support into a VMS cluster in a way comparable to HBVS are some of the HSxH products (at least my impression is that they can replicate autonomouslyA between themselves and make both ends accessible to a cluster fornF load-balancing use or local-access optimizations):  other products canJ certainly 'really work' in terms of keeping one's data safe, but typically' involve a fail-over as described above."  H (That may except some IBM products, since both Parallel Sysplex and IIRCJ more recently GPFS on AIX work in some ways rather like VMS clusters do inB this area - the latter I think may even include similar HBVS-styleG facilities, though possibly only in a manner that 'serves' the disks to ? other cluster members rather than allows peer-to-peer sharing.)b   >oD > I am curous as to why VMS can have such a robust host based volume	 shadowingmK > while dedicated storage arrays wouldn't be able to provide the same levela of > service/trust ?5  I They can easily provide the same level of trust.  In combination with thenH kind of fail-over enhancements I described above (which, as I mentioned,H must be implemented in the supporting systems rather than in the storageH device itself - but of course that's true of the VMS facilities as well)+ they can provide the same level of service.c  G All that said, some of my knowledge of specific products is sketchy andML corrections are welcome:  I just tried to answer your questions in somethingH more than a completely general sense, and may have made detail errors in$ product descriptions in the process.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 09:30:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)aY Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaqr3 Message-ID: <NDXI4$G$viWi@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  n In article <VXW89.123974$SS.5457580@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0208211559.290b6a01@posting.google.com...    >>I >> Improvements in cluster interconnect performance (like Memory Channel,wH >> Galaxy Shared Memory Cluster Interconnect, and Gigabit Ethernet) haveH >> helped DLM performance greatly as well.  Technologies like InfiniBandH >> could help in the future.  And VMS Engineering keeps cranking out newI >> DLM features like the speedier lock remastering in 7.2-2 and above andhH >> the dedicated-CPU lock manager option for reduced spinlock contentionK >> in SMP systems (see http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/gordon.ppt).d > M > There are aspects of the CF approach which are likely to remain faster thandF > the DLM approach will ever be (at least when executing on comparableD > hardware) - though whether they constitute any kind of significant& > differentiator is subject to debate. >   B 	There has to be issues with the CF and Geoplexes.  A quick search9 	in Google reveals little.  But since the CF has to be ond? 	one end or other (yes, you can have more than one but wouldn'tb> 	that be a big bandwidth intra-site issue?) how do the systems 	at the "remote" end perform?r  D 	I'm curious and would really like to know if remote Geoplex members) 	could possibly be faster and if so, how?<  C 	I'm sending this to Lynn, perhaps we will get a reply with someones) 	that was/is involved with these systems.n   				Robo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:42:16 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaq ) Message-ID: <3D64A3E8.5C3DD09C@127.0.0.1>r   JF Mezei wrote:d >  > Keith Parris wrote:eF > > failover VMS cluster users are accustomed to with HBVS.  Even withG > > StorageWorks DRM, the minimum time they advise folks to plan for to ( > > complete the failover is 15 minutes. > P > How come it wouldn't be automatic ? What would take 15 minutes to accomplish ? > K > Also, are there storage array products that provide volume shadowing thatn. > really works across buildings and are safe ? > N > I am curous as to why VMS can have such a robust host based volume shadowingN > while dedicated storage arrays wouldn't be able to provide the same level of > service/trust ?t  G What you have to bear in mind is that if the operating system is takingtG control of failover, then you have to take the operating system's point  of view:   Has the interconnect[s] failed?v Has the system failed?1 Did I fail (pause) and the other systems move on?h0 Is my view of a failure actually confined to me?  E You could get a situation where one site 'thinks' it is the remainingxD member, when what has happened is the client links into the databaseC have been continued from the *other* site. The difference between a D system and a storage controller is the VMS system has the concept of quorum.o  H With the best will in the world, a human decision is sometimes needed toF set the truth, and why in some cases a two node cluster with two votes> and a means of manually forcing quorum is actually a desirableF situation. I would rather the operating system take the decision as toD what data is good, rather than some storage controller. If you had aF quorum disk as part of a disk subsystem, you would not want two quorum8 disks presented to two partitioned members of a cluster.  C What is 15 minutes compared against restoring complete datasets and(D rolling to the correct point in time? You may think one simple phoneG call could set the record straight in 30 seconds, but is the reason your@ can't get through because your phone line is down, or theirs, or something else?@ -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot comb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:19:48 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaq/T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660952@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,/  G >>> I am curious as to why VMS can have such a robust host based volume-H shadowing while dedicated storage arrays wouldn't be able to provide the  same level of service/trust ?<<<  G Perhaps I am from the old school, but from a philosophical perspective,kH the host server should always be the one responsible for data integrity.    D That is not to say the controller can not be involved (write historyE logging, HW RAID in conjunction with HBVS etc), but there are just to.G many cache related things going on in the host to ensure the controllert: actually does the right things all the time on its own.=20  H Of course, in a shared everything cluster, it gets even more complicatedF as there are cache/DLM issues going on which NT/W2K and many *NIX's of% the world do not need to worry about.i  F Fwiw, for those bigger sites where HW costs are typically miniscule inE comparison to downtime costs, I am a big fan of using HW RAID devices B with host based shadowing across storage controller pairs. In thisF manner, a failed drive is rebuilt with the new drive at the local diskF controller level without impacting host adapters, FC switches, systems= and in the case of multi-site clusters - the multi-site link.(   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20b Sent: August 21, 2002 9:38 PMl To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComiF Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replicationH (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)C     Keith Parris wrote:cG > failover VMS cluster users are accustomed to with HBVS.  Even with=20tH > StorageWorks DRM, the minimum time they advise folks to plan for to=20& > complete the failover is 15 minutes.  A How come it wouldn't be automatic ? What would take 15 minutes toe accomplish ?  D Also, are there storage array products that provide volume shadowing1 that really works across buildings and are safe ?e  B I am curous as to why VMS can have such a robust host based volumeH shadowing while dedicated storage arrays wouldn't be able to provide the same level of service/trust ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:08:26 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyp8 Message-ID: <bb69mucm6sru7gghc3nq2bus60skf3opbq@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:03:46 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:y  ) >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:m6 >> It always amuses me when people make the mistake of5 >> talking about dot.com as a past and failed entity.e >hL >Andrew, would you admit that most of the growth during the dot com era cameI >from companies which had no hope for survival and existed solely becausem> >people were stupid enough to pour oodles of money into them ? >.M >And another aspect of this were the telecoms who also got oodles of money to L >deploy tons of fibre and routers etc etc, thinking that demand for bandwithL >would never cease to grow exponentially. (and this is what caused companiesO >such as Cisco, Nortel and JDS Uniphase to have their stock grow to unrealisticeL >orbital levels, and Nortel making the big mistake of buying up all sorts of >.COMs in the process).t  F According to an article in The Economist a few weeks ago, this can allF be traced to WorldCom lies. Since the Internet began it has doubled inC traffic approximately every 12-18 months. WorldCom produced figurescE showing their traffic doubling every 8 months or something like that.VB No other major carrier had figures like this but assumed they just; weren't doing as well as WorldCom and invested accordingly.l  B It later transpired that WorldCom had just made the figures up butE this tends to get lost thanks to the greater attention given to theiru financial improprieties.  0 The article "The Power of WorldCom's Puff" is atV http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=S%27%29H%24%2FQQ%27%20%210%21%2C%0AE from the print issue dated July 20th. You will need a subscription toc view it.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:16:38 +0100eU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>s+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlya0 Message-ID: <ak2kn6$lge$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,a > I > Hey - we are definitely making progress as you now acknowledge there ise > a place for clustering.  >     5 Is you memory so damaged that you have forgotten thatb; I have always acknowledged this ? This kind of applicationsr6 server clustering is exactly the example I used over 2; years ago to illustrate why you don't need OpenVMS clustersi to get high uptime.a  / Have a trawl through Deja, we have had numerouss3 conversations and I have had numerous conversationsn with the jlsue on this subject.     H > Fwiw, I really like your recommendation for less then 24 CPU based SMP9 > systems clustered together for J2EE based environments.m >     + Why how difficult is it to grasp that in ane4 environment where you do have horizontal scalability its worth making use of it.   0 I would really hate to see your idea of a N tier/ web services based infrastructure if you havn'te grasped this yet.     D > However, application clustering has a very small play and numerous( > limitations for large implementations. > ) > But - I will take progress where I can.y >     ' Ye gods are you really this challenged.t  2 I have always advocated using horizontally scaling1 apps server clusters there are references to thiso2 in our discussions if you can call them that going back at least 3 years !!  . I would suggest sitting quietly in a dark room+ for a couple of weeks you have clearly been  out in the sun a bit to much.a  2 If anything the progress is in the other direction- you were the person who poo-pooed the idea ofm$ using apps servers if your remember.  * As always its a wonder to see what you are# prepared to post, keep it up :):):)7   Regards  Andrew Harrison2   Regards5 Andrew Harrisona     > :-)d > 	 > Regardsi >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantn > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicess > Voice: 613-592-4660a > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com] a > Sent: August 21, 2002 8:18 AMr > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg- > Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly  >  >  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > 	 >>Andrew,e >> >> >>G >>>>>You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java offeringr >>>>>i >>>>>pH >>the possibility that apps don't need to be OS specific any more, take ; >>it one stage further and deploy them in an apps server.<<e >>H >>And what if a Customer has a number of J2EE and non-J2EE applications F >>running on the server/partition besides BEA? How will BEA supported G >>application clustering help them? [as is often the case when you are V >>looking at IT Consolidation?]V >> >> >  > 8 > It won't but isn't this a bit of a straw man. You made8 > the claim that I wouldn't consider any kind of cluster  > as being a valid architecture. > 7 > I have demonstrated conclusively that your suggestion 7 > is incorrect and is just the result of a memory lapseH3 > on your part, why not leave it at that you appear ! > to be in over your head anyway.a > 	 > Regardso > Andrew Harrisonc >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:46:09 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>s+ Subject: RE: HP-Compaq Merger Went SmoothlyoT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D94E1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew, Andrew ..m  - <<< Ye gods are you really this challenged.<<-  A Course, I always know when one party is frustrated with the otherm0 parties responses - they start getting personal.  G Ah well .. Business as usual ..sorry, don't have time to participate ino- the old "you said, I said.." stuff right now.4  ' However, do feel free to continue on ..e   :-)m   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant4 Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20o Sent: August 22, 2002 8:17 AMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly          Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,r >=20I > Hey - we are definitely making progress as you now acknowledge there=20c > is a place for clustering. >=20    5 Is you memory so damaged that you have forgotten thatfB I have always acknowledged this ? This kind of applications serverG clustering is exactly the example I used over 2 years ago to illustrate 7 why you don't need OpenVMS clusters to get high uptime.a  / Have a trawl through Deja, we have had numerous 3 conversations and I have had numerous conversations  with the jlsue on this subject..    H > Fwiw, I really like your recommendation for less then 24 CPU based SMP  9 > systems clustered together for J2EE based environments.l >=20    + Why how difficult is it to grasp that in an-4 environment where you do have horizontal scalability its worth making use of it.v  0 I would really hate to see your idea of a N tier/ web services based infrastructure if you havn'ta grasped this yet.d    G > However, application clustering has a very small play and numerous=20a( > limitations for large implementations. >=20) > But - I will take progress where I can.+ >=20    ' Ye gods are you really this challenged.e  2 I have always advocated using horizontally scaling1 apps server clusters there are references to this 2 in our discussions if you can call them that going back at least 3 years !!  . I would suggest sitting quietly in a dark room+ for a couple of weeks you have clearly been  out in the sun a bit to much.e  2 If anything the progress is in the other direction- you were the person who poo-pooed the idea ofr$ using apps servers if your remember.  * As always its a wonder to see what you are# prepared to post, keep it up :):):)t   Regards  Andrew Harrisoni   Regardso Andrew Harrisonz     > :-)t >=20	 > Regards  >=20 > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantn > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicesb > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=206 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com] > Sent: August 21, 2002 8:18 AMs > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms- > Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyh >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20 >=20	 >>Andrew,  >> >> >>G >>>>>You are the person who keeps sending out posts about Java offeringr >>>>>u >>>>>eG >>the possibility that apps don't need to be OS specific any more, takel; >>it one stage further and deploy them in an apps server.<<  >>G >>And what if a Customer has a number of J2EE and non-J2EE applicationstH >>running on the server/partition besides BEA? How will BEA supported=20I >>application clustering help them? [as is often the case when you are=20c >>looking at IT Consolidation?]i >> >> >=20 >=208 > It won't but isn't this a bit of a straw man. You made8 > the claim that I wouldn't consider any kind of cluster  > as being a valid architecture. >=207 > I have demonstrated conclusively that your suggestion 7 > is incorrect and is just the result of a memory lapse-3 > on your part, why not leave it at that you appear-! > to be in over your head anyway.r >=20	 > Regardsu > Andrew Harrisoni >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:20:57 +0100WU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>n+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly>0 Message-ID: <ak2s0a$ntt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  8 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >  >> >>B >>Well apart from our CY2002/Q1 and Q2 numbers no we show no signs >>of revenue growth. >>? >>Remind me how long has the joint Compaq and HP entity been inL; >>existantance. Come on Freddy boy havn't you FUDDED enough  >> >> > K > Hmmm.  Please point me to the quarterly reports I've seem to have missed, I > other than the meager EPS of 0.01 from last quarter?  The last quartersdL > are -.06, -.04, -.02 and then +.01.  The current advice to the street is aG > EPS of -.01 for the current quarter, and "perhaps" a +.02 in the next K > quarter (which may be wishful thinking, but it is also Suns traditionally ! > strongest quarter of the year).n >     7 Freddy you seem to missunderstand what a fundamental isi and how they are related.t  6 Profit is one, revenue is one, expenses is one, market
 share is one.i  7 Sun's revenues, expenses and market share are all goings7 in the right direction. And this will result in the 1ste1 fundamental going in the right direction as well.t  5 HP is making profits and expenses are going down, bute3 revenues and market share are declining. This has ad  number of possible implications.   1. l* You will continue to make profits but only& provided you continue to cut expenses.   2. s" Profitability will be compromised.  / Many of the markets you are in have barriers too5 entry and maintenance costs which are fixed decliningu4 sales will increase marginal costs in these markets.  2 Your concentration on profitability, excluding any4 other fundamental is understandable the others don't
 look good.  / And if you think that this is just someone from  Sun's view then look at.  < http://redherring.com/investor/2002/08/contrarian081902.html  ; Similar sentiments have been expressed in Business Week andt other financial publications.e      L > Falling back to quoting quarter-to-quarter growth is an old ploy, resortedN > to by everyone when they are in trouble.  Big crash, and then anything (evenJ > losing money) is a quarter-to-quarter growth and you can point even to aH > loss as growth.  Which is pretty much where you are.  You've gone fromJ > losing -.06 to making +.01, and are projected to slip back to losing .01H > before perhaps returning to growth.  Ignore the fact that it is anemic# > growth, and slim profits at best.  >     < So how do you spin a quarter on quarter decline in revenue ?  = Is it something that you are just going to reverse taking youf# back to pre start of fall levels ??h  : Sometimes your lack of analytical skills particularly when) it comes to self analysis are remarkable.   8 And you wonder why I reverted to calling you Freddy boy,7 could it be because of the quality of your argument ande6 the expected age group likely to be able to match it ?      I >>In the discussions we have had, you have lurched from benchmarks to CPUmD >>performance to systems architecture without betraying any apparent> >>understanding of the subjects you post on now you have addedC >>financial analysis to the list of things that you apparently knowaE >>nothing about as well, is this a clever front or has some maliciousi! >>co-worker stolen your account ?e >> >> > I > Hmmm.  And now, having nothing to back up your FUD or your claims, letsyN > change the subject and return your other creative writing assignments.  Like > musical benchmarks.n >     4 No I am simple stating the facts, its regretable for5 you since you apparently had a reputation for qualitye4 posting in this newsgroup prior to your forrays into7 areas that clearly arn't in your CV that you are unabler to recognise this.       > 6 >>If your comments reflect the culture of both defunct7 >>companies then it goes a long way to explain why they 7 >>are defunct, lets hope for HP's sake that this aspectu9 >>of the Digital/Compaq way does not become the prevelantc
 >>HP culture.R >> >> > H > This is, of course, always your last resort.  Start calling names, andN > making personal attacks.  It distracts attention from the hollowness of your > arguments. >     9 Humm, lets see have I ever called you a Compaq/HP wipe orm6 publically called one of my customers an idiot on this* newsgroup when you/they disagreed with me.  7 No but then you have havn't you generally at some pointp4 a long time after you had lost the argument you were having.e  6 I started calling you Freddy boy because of your child7 like posting and your propensity to resort to personnalg4 abuse when on the losing side of an argument. Little/ in the subsequent months has led me to think ofi: re-naming you and only a marked improvement in the quality3 of your posts plus the demonstation of some minimum 2 level of analytical skills would lead me change my view.      Regardsc Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 02:24:14 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t/ Subject: Re: installation using VMSINSTAL failsi, Message-ID: <3D648385.6A89E1E1@videotron.ca>   aniruddha patwardhan wrote: F > %PVP04-S-ARCHITECTURE, Incompatible system type. This package can be > installed onC > -PVP04-S-ARCHITECTURE, AXP(Alpha) OpenVMS operating systems only.p  I > The product is build for VAX systems only and I am installing it on VAXi; > system. Any suggestions what couls be the reason of this?e  M If you are certain that the product was in fact built for VAX, then you couldaK use BACKUP to extract the files in the .A saveset to a directory, then edit M the KITINSTAL.COM file to see where it checks for the architecture and change L the code to fix the check. Then you use BACKUP to rebuilt the A saveset fromL all the files in the directory (with the fixed KITINSTAL.COM) and re-instal.  L If you are not 100% certain that the product is for VAX, perhaps you need toM check the source of the kit to ensure that you downloaded the VAX version, ortM perhaps there are two versions on tape, one for VAX and one for ALPHA and theo ALPHA version comes first ?u   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 06:01:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r/ Subject: Re: installation using VMSINSTAL failsr3 Message-ID: <K2tpOfeo1sA4@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  m In article <um8v7m9ka9bn64@corp.supernews.com>, "aniruddha patwardhan" <aniruddha_patwardhan@bmc.com> writes:e > Hi,o > M > I am installing a product on a vax system using VMSINSTAL. But installationa > fails giving following error > 8 >         Beginning installation of PVP04 V51.0 at 01:43 > 8 > %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set A ...F > %PVP04-S-ARCHITECTURE, Incompatible system type. This package can be > installed onC > -PVP04-S-ARCHITECTURE, AXP(Alpha) OpenVMS operating systems only.mC > %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of PVP04 V51.0 has failed.a >  > + >         VMSINSTAL procedure done at 01:44e >  > I > The product is build for VAX systems only and I am installing it on VAXn; > system. Any suggestions what couls be the reason of this?m  7 It is a defect on the part of the maker of the product.h  7 You can debug their kit for them, or get them to do it.   C Since debugging a VMSINSTAL kit is so straightforward (if tedious),,0 asking us to guess is not an efficient approach.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:49:59 +0200s- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> / Subject: Re: installation using VMSINSTAL fails ' Message-ID: <3D64CFE6.5B11E28B@Free.fr>o   Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  ../..cE > Since debugging a VMSINSTAL kit is so straightforward (if tedious),e2 > asking us to guess is not an efficient approach.  , Larry, should JF teach you on KITINSTAL.COM?  L Debugging a VMSINSTAL kit *is* straightforward o those of us who master DCL,
 aren't we?   :-))   D.  O PS: For the readers here who do not know, VMSINSTAL mainly starts by extractingoC the KITINSTAL.COM DCL procedure from saveset .A, then executes it. i  L To know about a VMSINSTAL installation, just extract this procedure from theO saveset and look at it ($ back mysaveset.a/save/select=kitinstal.com */log thenlM do a ^Y to abort the backup search - when the file has been created - in casefK the saveset is a BIG file). If you are interested in KITINSTAL development,lO there used to be a guide somewhere in the VMS doc, which was first for internal-) use only, then was released to the Field.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:12:46 +0200i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e/ Subject: Re: installation using VMSINSTAL failst' Message-ID: <3D64D53E.8FE403E7@aaa.com>n   Didier Morandi wrote:e > 1 > If you are interested in KITINSTAL development,eQ > there used to be a guide somewhere in the VMS doc, which was first for internalr+ > use only, then was released to the Field.   * On : "http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/".  " Look under "Archived documents"...   Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:36:17 GMTt8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)/ Subject: Re: installation using VMSINSTAL failss0 Message-ID: <5V499.8$0K.272526@news.cpqcorp.net>  m In article <um8v7m9ka9bn64@corp.supernews.com>, "aniruddha patwardhan" <aniruddha_patwardhan@bmc.com> writes:  >Hi, >oL >I am installing a product on a vax system using VMSINSTAL. But installation >fails giving following errorg >e7 >        Beginning installation of PVP04 V51.0 at 01:43i > 7 >%VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set A ... E >%PVP04-S-ARCHITECTURE, Incompatible system type. This package can be 
 >installed on B >-PVP04-S-ARCHITECTURE, AXP(Alpha) OpenVMS operating systems only.B >%VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of PVP04 V51.0 has failed. >  >a* >        VMSINSTAL procedure done at 01:44 >  >sH >The product is build for VAX systems only and I am installing it on VAX: >system. Any suggestions what couls be the reason of this?    J Either you are wrong about this kit being intended for OpenVMS VAX systems1 or kit builder has put incorrect code in the kit.n  3 Contact the kit builder or supplier for assistance.p   -- hG     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USAyH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:19:51 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>; Subject: Re: Installing new RF36 Hard disk in VAX 4000 105AM) Message-ID: <3D64ACB7.CECA516C@127.0.0.1>-   Iskandar Hussein wrote:o >  > Dear friends,  > G > My VAX 4000 105A is having a disk space problem.  I need to add a new2E > unit of hard disk in my system.  Currently the system is running onr. > VMS VAX 6.2 and on 4 1.6 GB DSSI Hard Drive. > A > The project I am engaging currently requires me to add one moree7 > additional hard drive in the expansion cabinet, B40X.p > F > Anybody in the group have experience installing this unit would mind> > sharing the installing method?  I would appreciate the help.  E I'd just make a note here that performing a self install could affect D your maintenance contract, so I'd check that out first, and possibly, engage you maintenance folks to do the work.  C In either case you'll have to work out a free DSSI node number, and>A either have a plug available, or set the unit number (see later).   D If you're going to do it yourself, after shutting down and switchingE off,  with appropriate antistatic precautions, put the drive into thegF free bay, gently but firmly, fasten up the mounting screws and connect= the front place. THis should all be fairly obvious how to do.e  C If you're using a node plug, which must be unique, put that in, and D power the system back up, but make sure it halts at the chevrons >>>  E a SHOW DSSI will show if the drive appears without conflicts. It willeD also give its node name which you may wish to change, its allocationG class ALLCLASS which should match the ALLOCLASS on the system if you'll # be MSCP serving to cluster members.r  D Without going into great detail of how to force unit numbers withoutD node plugs, or how to make the drive see the node plug rather than aB forced number, also how to set host to the drive so you can change# parameters from the console, go to ,  " http://askq.compaq.com/askopenvms/  A Searching for "dssi rf disk vax install" will give you the 2 or 3aH articles that will help you through the rest of the process on the firstF and couple of pages following, the titles should be obvious. Come backH here if you have other specific issues for questions not answered there.   -- s? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:38:24 +01000% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r3 Subject: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?r8 Message-ID: <k6j9mu8bcuusi2rivl0uvct2hghs3mv85v@4ax.com>  < http://redherring.com/investor/2002/08/contrarian081902.html        The Contrarian Carly is running on fumes C It seemed only a matter of time before the fenders and wheels wouldeD start popping off the bolted-together merger jalopy known as the new@ and improved Hewlett-Packard. But who could've imagined it would happen so fast?s By Christopher Byron   August 19, 2002   ; Just a month after the merger of HP and Compaq Computer wasyF consummated, the combined company began stepping back from the numbers? upon which it justified the deal in the first place. Revenue ishE declining when it had been expected to rise, cost savings are provingl? elusive, and earnings forecasts may be scaled back (NYSE: HPQ).u     C Investors don't like that sort of thing, but anyone sticking aroundrE better get used to it. This is just the opening phase in a long slidel@ ahead, as reality overtakes the hype with which Carleton "Carly"> Fiorina of HP and her counterpart at Compaq, Michael Capellas,9 promoted the creation of a "new kind of industry leader."s  F Far from creating a new kind of company, what the deal has really doneC is to shift Compaq's increasingly desperate fight to survive in the B slow-growth, low-margin, commodity PC and laptop business onto the= backs of HP's shareholders. Prior to the merger, such devicesoE accounted for barely 20 percent of HP's revenue. Now they account forpD a full 31 percent. For that reason alone, much of the future for theB combined company will boil down to trying to cut costs faster than revenue declines.n  E Mergers of this sort are typically justified with the business schoolrA concept of "synergy"--the theory that companies from separate butSF complementary fields can develop new products and markets that neitherD company could have developed alone. But when HP and Compaq announcedC their merger last September, they used the word synergy to describevE what actually amounted to plain old everyday cost cutting, which theySF artfully redefined as "cost synergy" to make it sound less threateningC and more growth oriented. The companies said the combined operation>C would achieve $2 billion in its first full fiscal year of business.r  B At a June meeting with Wall Street analysts in Boston, the companyE produced data showing that it is sticking by those forecasted numbers C and is actually ahead of schedule. But investors have hardly seemed-C impressed and have been pulling out of the stock. So far, they havew? sliced $5 billion-plus off the combined market value of the twosD companies when compared to the price at which they valued those same3 assets as separate businesses less than a year ago.a  E But let's step back a moment for a refresher on the background of theuD two companies--and the heavy baggage they brought to the merger. HP,D as you doubtless know, is the grandfather of all Silicon Valley--theA original "genius in a garage" business. But success can come at aaD cost. HP inevitably evolved from a fast-growing startup into a largeE and mature business, with departments, divisions, committees, and all F the other organizational elements that slow decision making and stifle creativity.p  > The company's current chairman and CEO, Ms. Fiorina, took over@ management of HP in July 1999, following her spectacularly rapidA rise--though rather underwhelming legacy--at Lucent Technologies.tF Granted, Ms. Fiorina inherited a bad situation, but all she managed toF do was let things deteriorate. By May 2001, I'd seen enough, and wroteB a highly critical column in the New York Observer on Ms. Fiorina'sD performance in HP's corner office, concluding, "So here it is Carly,D mano a mano: Pack it in babe, you stink." The editors of Red Herring( agreed and also called on her to resign.  D Her failures were self-evident. Though Ms. Fiorina had arrived at HPA bubbling with excitement about reviving the company's glory days,,E there was no follow-through. She instead flew around the country withnF a bodyguard in her company-leased Gulfstream IV jet, giving happy-talk@ speeches about HP being a "people first" company with "community values."  D Along the way, Ms. Fiorina found time for a corporate reorganizationB that amounted to nothing more than shifting around some divisionalE underlings. And in a show of managerial innovation at its finest, thesF sales force was placed on an incentive-based pay scheme to get them toD work harder. Glory days indeed. By summer 2001, top-line revenue hadB flatlined from when she took the helm, and operating earnings, net( income, and cash flow had all collapsed.  F Instead of developing new technologies, HP had become a captive of itsC own past. Consider its increasing reliance on the printer business, ? which by summer 2001, accounted for more than 40 percent of itse@ revenue and essentially all its operating profit. Unfortunately,D printers had long since become a low-margin commodity business besetF by industrywide price cutting. By last summer, many computer companiesE were actually offering free printers as an incentive to get people ton buy their desktops and laptops.t  A Ms. Fiorina chose to deal with all this in a bizarre fashion: shel arranged to merge with Compaq.  F Yet Compaq was even more troubled than HP. Compaq, too, had begun lifeF as a fast-growing high-tech startup at the dawn of an era--in Compaq'sB case, the birth of the PC in the early '80s. True to form, though,= Compaq's revenue growth inevitably slowed, and as more nimbleoD competitors like Dell Computer emerged, an increasingly severe price) war took a toll on the company's margins.r  > The last few years have not been kind to Compaq. Since its own@ extraordinarily misguided merger with Digital Equipment in 1998,@ operating cash flow and earnings have slumped, and the stock hasF fallen, from a high of $51 per share at the start of 1999 to less than= $9 per share when the merger with Hewlett-Packard was finallys announced last September.k  C Moreover, the weakness in top-line revenue that both companies werelD experiencing prior to the merger has since gotten worse. At the timeF the merger was announced, both managements totaled their previous fourA quarters of revenue and described the resulting entity as an "$87s@ billion global technology leader." But they're now forecasting aB decline of as much as 16 percent in revenue this year, to maybe no more than $72.8 billion.  > Only a portion of that decline is a result of overall economic? conditions. Consider the PC segment: HP is now forecasting a 17eC percent revenue slide this year, followed by growth of 2 percent or F less in 2003. Compare that to a recent forecast by the investment firmB Credit Suisse First Boston of no growth in the global PC market in@ 2002, followed by a pickup of 11 percent in 2003. Sounds like an execution problem to me.  @ The pressure on the top-line presages continued harsh cutting ofD operating expenses--in particular, payroll. The two companies shed aD total of 15,000-plus employees in the year leading up to the merger,B and plans are under way to cut 15,000 more in the year ahead, with- two-thirds of the firings coming by November.   D More will certainly be needed. Last September, HP predicted that itsC so-called cost synergy savings would make the merger "substantially D accretive to earnings" in the first full year of combined operation.C At the time, Wall Street analysts were expecting the two companies,v@ separately, to earn a total of $4.7 billion in 2002. But MerrillF Lynch, for one, hardly sounds so optimistic and is now estimating thatE the combined company may earn less than $2.6 billion in 2002 and justt $4 billion in 2003.t  D The balance sheet raises more questions than it answers. At the June> analyst meeting, the company showed a slide with "gross cash &@ investments" totaling $13.1 billion as of March 31, or more thanD double the amount of the previous October. There's just one problem:B neither HP nor Compaq had any such "gross cash & investments" lineF item on any balance sheet prior to the merger. It appears to be simply? a hybrid category that cherry-picks certain assets out of an HP-E balance sheet item called "long term investments and other assets" toi show a big improvement in cash.   E In reality, the combined company had at most $10.7 billion in cash asAE of March 31, which works out to about $3.50 per share. That's exactlyED the amount of cash per share that HP's own shareholders had prior toA the merger. While the company did add $1.7 billion in cash in thep: April quarter, there aren't any other measurable per-share+ improvements in the combined balance sheet.   F Add it all up, and it's hardly surprising that investors now value the@ stock of the surviving entity at 20 times 2002 earnings, whereasF separately, investors had been valuing Compaq at 32 times earnings andC HP at 27 times earnings. Indeed, no sooner was the merger announcedo@ than the Street marked down the shares to a multiple of 23 timesF earnings. As of mid-June, the stock sat more than 20 percent below itsD premerger price. With the company's fundamentals deteriorating, it's1 hard to see that price improving much, if at all.o  F For investors, the lesson in all this seems clear enough. When mergersC are trumpeted to revive growth and somehow bring back the "good old C days," it's usually time to sell--there's probably no place for the C stock to go but down. In the case of the "new and improved" HP, thecD only real question is, Which is going to fall faster, its revenue or" its costs? Bottom line: stay away.  E Christopher Byron is a syndicated radio commentator and writer livinghE in Connecticut. He is also the author of 'Martha Inc.: The Incredible D Story of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia.' Mr. Byron does not investF in equity securities in any form. He holds only U.S. government bonds, notes, and CDs.T   Write to Christopher Byron.     s   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:33:31 GMTn5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?t1 Message-ID: <fv799.18$UO.375858@news.cpqcorp.net>    Alan Greig wrote in message ...4 > F >Christopher Byron is a syndicated radio commentator and writer livingF >in Connecticut. He is also the author of 'Martha Inc.: The IncredibleE >Story of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia.' Mr. Byron does not invest G >in equity securities in any form. He holds only U.S. government bonds,I >notes, and CDs. >g  J This was the most telling part of this guys "I hate the merger" redux.  He? doesn't believe in stocks at all, and likes Martha.  Go figure.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:06:21 GMTa5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>B7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? 1 Message-ID: <hS899.20$6U.520301@news.cpqcorp.net>r  6 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >p >c >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:a >y" >> Alan Greig wrote in message ... >>H >>>Christopher Byron is a syndicated radio commentator and writer livingH >>>in Connecticut. He is also the author of 'Martha Inc.: The IncredibleG >>>Story of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia.' Mr. Byron does not investtI >>>in equity securities in any form. He holds only U.S. government bonds,t >>>notes, and CDs. >>>a >>>  >>I >> This was the most telling part of this guys "I hate the merger" redux.^ HeB >> doesn't believe in stocks at all, and likes Martha.  Go figure. >> >a >e? >No he just maintains his independance by not holding any stockl >h: >A pretty honest stance from a financial writer and hardly* >something that anyone needs to go figure. > 5 >Its nice to see that as usual you are ready with thee >wrong explanation.: >4  H Which is a lot of hooey.  He could hold mutual funds, if he had an issueK about not talking about a specific stock.  Someone who is "in the business"aL but who won't trust his own money invested what he talks about is suspect toK me.  Anyone fully invested in bonds, notes and CD's - and who isn't near orrK at retirement *is* a fool.  No matter how he hand waves.  If you don't walk/D the walk, stop trying to talk the talk.  Frankly there is absolutelyF *nothing* wrong with holding investments in things you research, write0 about, or recommend  - provided full disclosure.  J Interesting thing about opinions - we all have them - and yours is usually wrong.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:14:31 +0100cU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>,7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?S0 Message-ID: <ak32l7$q24$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  ! > Alan Greig wrote in message ...1 > G >>Christopher Byron is a syndicated radio commentator and writer living-G >>in Connecticut. He is also the author of 'Martha Inc.: The IncredibleoF >>Story of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia.' Mr. Byron does not investH >>in equity securities in any form. He holds only U.S. government bonds, >>notes, and CDs.L >> >> > L > This was the most telling part of this guys "I hate the merger" redux.  HeA > doesn't believe in stocks at all, and likes Martha.  Go figure.  >     > No he just maintains his independance by not holding any stock  9 A pretty honest stance from a financial writer and hardlye) something that anyone needs to go figure.e  4 Its nice to see that as usual you are ready with the wrong explanation.   Regards Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:02:10 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.nete Subject: LN17ps Ethernet5 Message-ID: <mh599.4017$6U3.176@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>a  = I have an LN17ps with a bad Ethernet card (it doesn't show upr= as an installed option on the config sheet).  I've had a hard = time finding a replacement.  Does anyone know of a place thatd; still has any in stock, or does anyone have one from a dead0  LN17/LN17ps they'd like to sell?  = Otherwise, what is my best option to get this printer back ont; the network for use with DCPS?  I'm thinking an external HPS< JetDirect, but I don't want to get one if it won't work with the LN17ps.d  
 Thank you. -- i Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.netb= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:01:29 -0400a2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: LN17ps Ethernet. Message-ID: <3D650AD9.9EDBD612@mindspring.com>   dittman@dittman.net wrote:  ? > I have an LN17ps with a bad Ethernet card (it doesn't show up ? > as an installed option on the config sheet).  I've had a hardg? > time finding a replacement.  Does anyone know of a place thatn= > still has any in stock, or does anyone have one from a deadi" > LN17/LN17ps they'd like to sell?   Make me an offer!   + When my wife was laid-off from DigiPaq, shee, arranged to buy some of her office equipment+ including an LN17-PS. Unfortnately, betweene, the time she left work and the time we could2 conclude the sale of the equipment and pick it up,* some b*****d stole the PostScript ROM SIMM, and RAM DIMMs out of the printer. So what we. ended up with was a rather-expensive HP Laser-- Jet compatible printer with an Ethernet port.i  - (And buying a replacement LN17X-PS PostScriptS3 option is impractical; even when you can find them,r" they're way too expensive to buy.)  0 So I could sell you my bits or you could sell me2 your bits; that way, at least one of us would have0 a working printer! Aside from the missing parts,- the LN17 works find and has a still-new toner 
 cartridge.   Atlant (in Nashua, NH, USA)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:43:06 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o" Subject: Re: Network World ArticleI Message-ID: <KT599.66442$8aG1.15982@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>m  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:ak2ntd$ctq$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Bill, . > Its good news cant we just leave it at that? >s > sueo > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message2= > news:aHj89.89359$Fw3.4123026@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...cI > > Unfortunately, it's nowhere nearly the 'pearl' it would have been hadr thevE > > statement come from the highest level in HPQ.  I remember Terry'sr > predictionL > > here early last May that with the consummation of the merger the famous,L > > private 'Carly letter' of corporate support (won't use the 'c' word) for > VMSeI > > that a couple of people claimed to have received would become public:e didi, > > anything remotely like that ever happen? > >n   Sue,  G No offense but I think Bill was saying that while the news was good, ityH would have been much better if we had the good news from #1 or #2 at HP.K What we VMS customers seem to get are positive feedback from Rich Marcello,hJ but we also know how he's had the legs cut out from underneath him by moreA senior people in management (note the use of the word senior, noto 'smarter').   K To second Bill's question....what ever happened to the public disclosure of $ the alleged 'secret' letter? Anyone?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:11:07 -0400H5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>m" Subject: Re: Network World Article* Message-ID: <ak2ntd$ctq$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Bill, , Its good news cant we just leave it at that?   sueo  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagel; news:aHj89.89359$Fw3.4123026@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...t > @ > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message9 > news:857e9e41.0208191436.74151c1f@posting.google.com...o > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Skonetski, Susan) > > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 5:16 PMo > > To: Skonetski, SusanI > > Subject: OpenVMS Pearl - this is a great pearl - Network World Fusionj > > article  > K > Unfortunately, it's nowhere nearly the 'pearl' it would have been had thetC > statement come from the highest level in HPQ.  I remember Terry'st
 predictionJ > here early last May that with the consummation of the merger the famous,J > private 'Carly letter' of corporate support (won't use the 'c' word) for VMStL > that a couple of people claimed to have received would become public:  did* > anything remotely like that ever happen? >n > - bill >  > >t > >hI > >  Folks you are going to love this.  This is an excerpt from HP-Compaqi# > > chip away at to-do list article  > >J< > >   Users hope this merging of teams works out, especially: > >   as it relates to moving OpenVMS to Itanium platform. > >b: > >   "OpenVMS has amazing clustering, is highly reliable,9 > >   very secure and has the Apache Web server and everys> > >   compiler users could ever want," says John Eisenschmidt,< > >   a systems analyst for the American Association for the= > >   Advancement of Science in Washington. "If the migrationeE > >   of OpenVMS to Itanium is done correctly it will work out well."r > >hG > > Complete article: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/0819infra.html,o' > > "HP-Compaq chip away at to-do list"i > >  > >f@ > > Many thanks to Kerry Main OpenVMS Ambassador for forwarding. > >s > > Warm Regards,o > >  >  >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:45:00 GMTu! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>s  Subject: Re: New missive from HP> Message-ID: <Xns927258B5D63A6acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  8 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> enlightened us with: news:uLZ89.126032$SS.5576925@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com:    > 0 > "Andy" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in message: > news:Xns9271EAAEFC8ABacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232...B >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> enlightened us with" >> news:3D6447F8.3A3837B2@fsi.net: >  > ...d > > >> >> Bill Gates doesn't agree. he wants everyone to know that> >> >> everything is running on Windows.  And he is winning the >> >> war.   >>A >> Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see this as a war. It's evolution.g> >> Right now Bill Gates is like all those gigantic prehistoric? >> mamals just before the last ice age. He's been lucky and theiB >> competition hasn't been as tough. But that isn't the same thing >> as winning. s > B > I think you may seriously misunderstand the way evolution works,  / No. I have a fairly clear idea of how it works.H  > > and how (in whatever sense it may) that applies to operating > systems. .  ; That might be true. I don't think it actually DOES apply toeA operating systems. It was just meant as an analogy & not meant to  be the definitive explanation. a  ? While from your point of view VMS is the dinosaur that has beens8 out-evolved by those pesky little mammals like Windows I don't agree (surprise!). e  A Microsoft has continually TRIED to force the evolution of Windowsr= into something to replace more robust operating systems (VMS, ? Unix, whatever) and has yet to succeed in any way EXCEPT in thew> battle for mindshare in the public. Just because dinosaurs are? popular doesn't mean they continue (or even should) to walk thet earth. u  B You can only go so far with the Microsoft approach to OS evolution8 and I believe that in the long run it WILL be a failure.> But fortunately, unlike some, I don't get paid for making suchA pronouncements and am not liable for them. In fact, I don't thinkeB I would know what an Armani suit looks like if I tripped over it.   : What I DO see is that people seem to be looking for simple; explanations for the current state of affairs in operating H; systems. Too simple. There appear to be at least 10 factorst; that EACH has its' own acolytes saying "This is the reason"t   [Hmmm... 10...?]   We have, in no special order:q  A [1] - Blame THEM - It is the fault of Digital||Compaq||HP for not #     	properly treating this assett.s  ? [2] - If they hadn't killed the Alpha (or VAX or the PDP-10)...h:     	(They being someone in #1) we would ALL be using VMS   : [3] - Blame Microsoft for all the problems of the OS world     	p> [4] - Must have been SUN's fault for making Digital irrelevant#     	in the markets Digital starteda  9 [5] - Low Mindshare amoung college students leads to doomr<     	because the executives of tomorrow think Windows is IT.>     	(Or whatever they used in College - this must explain the9      	current 'replace everything that doesn't have a web #      	interface' mode of operation)n  ; [6] - No affordable VMS systems for the masses = decreasingo     	mindshare/market sharee  ;       It's the cost stupid ! (The - "Give VMS away for freeB5     	and it will suddenly take over the world" crowd)p  B [7] - It's the technology - Windows/Unix/Linux/whatever does a    : 	better job so we won't succeed until we become JUST like 
     	them.    [8] - It's all in the marketingw  @ [9] - Selling PC's is killing us! Kill the PC & Invest the money     	in VMS.  < [10]- It's all because of the ranting and raving over in    5 	comp.os.vms. If everyone stops complaining VMS will       	suddenly be born-again.  , Did I miss any ? Or stretched some too far ?   -Andy- --  % I had a point when I started. Honest!e   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:23:52 +0000 (UTC)i From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk  Subject: Re: New missive from HP+ Message-ID: <ak2vm8$n8t$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   b In article <Xns927258B5D63A6acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>, Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:9 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> enlightened us withe; >news:uLZ89.126032$SS.5576925@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com: d >k >>  1 >> "Andy" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in messageh; >> news:Xns9271EAAEFC8ABacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232...tC >>> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> enlightened us with # >>> news:3D6447F8.3A3837B2@fsi.net:M >> l >y; >What I DO see is that people seem to be looking for simplen< >explanations for the current state of affairs in operating < >systems. Too simple. There appear to be at least 10 factors< >that EACH has its' own acolytes saying "This is the reason" >, >[Hmmm... 10...?]  >l  (  [0] - There aren't enough applications.%        It's the applications stupid !   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >We have, in no special order: >uB >[1] - Blame THEM - It is the fault of Digital||Compaq||HP for not$ >    	properly treating this assett. > @ >[2] - If they hadn't killed the Alpha (or VAX or the PDP-10)...; >    	(They being someone in #1) we would ALL be using VMS t >t; >[3] - Blame Microsoft for all the problems of the OS worldn >    	? >[4] - Must have been SUN's fault for making Digital irrelevants$ >    	in the markets Digital started >c: >[5] - Low Mindshare amoung college students leads to doom= >    	because the executives of tomorrow think Windows is IT.i? >    	(Or whatever they used in College - this must explain theb: >     	current 'replace everything that doesn't have a web$ >     	interface' mode of operation) >n< >[6] - No affordable VMS systems for the masses = decreasing >    	mindshare/market share >s< >      It's the cost stupid ! (The - "Give VMS away for free6 >    	and it will suddenly take over the world" crowd) >tC >[7] - It's the technology - Windows/Unix/Linux/whatever does a    t; >	better job so we won't succeed until we become JUST like e >    	them.e >   >[8] - It's all in the marketing >oA >[9] - Selling PC's is killing us! Kill the PC & Invest the moneyp
 >    	in VMS.  >a= >[10]- It's all because of the ranting and raving over in    h6 >	comp.os.vms. If everyone stops complaining VMS will  >    	suddenly be born-again.a >"- >Did I miss any ? Or stretched some too far ?  >c >-Andy-  >-- & >I had a point when I started. Honest!   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 06:06:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e+ Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free downloada3 Message-ID: <nTJkahS7hRsj@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  L In article <ak2e6q$hvr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  N > The problem is that the CD based installation is not very download friendly.Q > You would have to download all the CD contents (directory structure, files etc)rP > either to a dedicated extra harddisk or possibly to a virtual container which M > could then be used to write a CD. Doing this by FTP would be pretty nasty. :. > Might be easier if it was served out by NFS.A > You would then need to make this dedicated disk or CD bootable.w > O > (Note. You almost certainly couldn't do the download to a PC and then create i > the CD there.) >  > O > This was much much easier in the old VAX days when the upgrade just consistedt@ > of a number of savesets and didn't itself need to be bootable.  D But the real installation, the way DEC intended, is _MUCH_ easier onC Alpha.  They had design goals and met them well.  The fact that therC result does not meet a non-goal, is immaterial.  Or perhaps it is a A side benefit in discouraging people from bypassing their business2 model.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:25:30 +0000 (UTC)h From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk+ Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free downloadc+ Message-ID: <ak2e6q$hvr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  q In article <20020821171522.57287.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:r >FREE DOWNLOAD FOR WHAT ???? >e% >OpenVMS / VAX doesnt run in PCs !!!!i >.K Thats not the problem. Enough people can get second-hand Alphas, Vaxes frome ebay, Island etc.i  L The problem is that the CD based installation is not very download friendly.O You would have to download all the CD contents (directory structure, files etc)oN either to a dedicated extra harddisk or possibly to a virtual container which K could then be used to write a CD. Doing this by FTP would be pretty nasty. n, Might be easier if it was served out by NFS.? You would then need to make this dedicated disk or CD bootable.y  M (Note. You almost certainly couldn't do the download to a PC and then create y the CD there.)    M This was much much easier in the old VAX days when the upgrade just consistedf> of a number of savesets and didn't itself need to be bootable.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University        6 >In 2 weeks I will receive as giff - I hope - an Alpha1 >2100 and a VAX 4000. I dont know what I will do '5 >with the  VAX. I want just the external disks (SBB) e >to my one disk Alpha 1000.l >  >Regards >p >FC  >o >l2 >--- David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> wrote: >> Hi,5 >> Is it legal to post a copy of the Operating Systemb >> CD for OpenVms Vax on >> a public server???  >> e7 >> The software could still be licensed the same way it  >> is now (regarding
 >> hobbyist).- >> - >> -4 >> A free download would increase intrest in OpenVMS >> tremendously... A freea6 >> download would bring stabillity and logevity to the >> operating system and  >> hardware. >>  7 >> The hobbist program is great, but it seems like they  >> are allways out of: >> stock...e >> o5 >> The best thing for the future of OpenVMS/VAX woulda >> be for the OS to be >> freely downloadable...  >> t5 >> Eventually I think it will happen, it just dependso >> on how dead the thing7 >> gets first.. OpenVMS/Vax doesn't make HP any money..t >> u >> s5 >> It's not like I'm going to run OpenVMS on my Ultrao >> 30 and cheat them out7 >> of a hardware sale. I obviously bought a copy of theh >> operating system if& >> I've got a Vax (they came together) >> a >>   >> David Michaels  >> h >> michaedi@email.uc.edu >> dmichaels@acm.org >y >o >===== >==========================i >Fbio dos Santos Cardoso  >OpenVMS System Managerd >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br  >==========================l >t3 >__________________________________________________- >Do You Yahoo!? ' >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobsm >http://www.hotjobs.comu   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:43:22 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk+ Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free downloade+ Message-ID: <ak2f8a$i7q$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>r  c In article <gmKyzOVbKpaK@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:o\ >In article <3D63B952.466F2705@email.uc.edu>, David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> writes: >oK >> Is it legal to post a copy of the Operating System CD for OpenVms Vax onx >> a public server???b >IG >Only if you have the permission the copyright owner (Hewlett Packard). C >Since the Hobbyist Program does not have such permission, it seemst/ >unlikely that you would be granted permission.-  J Has anyone has explicit permission from HP/COMPAQ to say that sharing the N layered product CDs is OK. We've had unofficial statements that this is OK butC I've never heard any official statement. Since the OS is also media E distribution the same as the layered products (and since both containnC similarly copyrighted material) it might be argued that if one suchgH distribution is Ok so is the other. Of course usage of these copyrightedG programs without obtaining a valid license would be a different matter.l  D Does the copyright apply to running the programs or does it apply toM combinations of bit patterns on a piece of media ? Indeed the representationseL of those bit patterns will vary according to the media it is impressed upon.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:45:54 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> + Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free downloadP; Message-ID: <01KLLOORCP9O970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m  G > Has anyone has explicit permission from HP/COMPAQ to say that sharinguJ > the layered product CDs is OK. We've had unofficial statements that thisI > is OK but I've never heard any official statement. Since the OS is alsolE > media distribution the same as the layered products (and since both-H > contain similarly copyrighted material) it might be argued that if oneC > such distribution is Ok so is the other. Of course usage of theseDC > copyrighted programs without obtaining a valid license would be aS > different matter.   H I'm pretty sure that it is OK to borrow the media---as long as you have D a license, of course.  I think that has been confirmed by Those Who D Should Know here in the past.  Think about it: companies which have G hundreds of VMS machines usually don't have hundreds of copies of each tH CD (updated every few months...).  That's probably why the cost is tied  to the license, not the media.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:47:32 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk+ Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free downloadp+ Message-ID: <ak2mh4$kjb$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   c In article <nTJkahS7hRsj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:mM >In article <ak2e6q$hvr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:a >gO >> The problem is that the CD based installation is not very download friendly.dR >> You would have to download all the CD contents (directory structure, files etc)Q >> either to a dedicated extra harddisk or possibly to a virtual container which hN >> could then be used to write a CD. Doing this by FTP would be pretty nasty. / >> Might be easier if it was served out by NFS.aB >> You would then need to make this dedicated disk or CD bootable. >> ?P >> (Note. You almost certainly couldn't do the download to a PC and then create  >> the CD there.)e >>   >> nP >> This was much much easier in the old VAX days when the upgrade just consistedA >> of a number of savesets and didn't itself need to be bootable.e > E >But the real installation, the way DEC intended, is _MUCH_ easier ongD >Alpha.  They had design goals and met them well.  The fact that theD >result does not meet a non-goal, is immaterial.  Or perhaps it is aB >side benefit in discouraging people from bypassing their business >model.s  M Personally I don't think the CD install is actually any easier. Different and N generally a lot quicker than from TK50s but not really easier. You still need I to read the release notes and upgrade manuals otherwise you can get into yM problems as recent discussions on dealing with a shadowed system disk showed.e  ? CD distribution was the software distribution model of the 90s.hG Unfortunately for DEC/COMPAQ/HP the move is definitely towards interneteL distribution of software including the OS.  They need to wakeup to this factN and start putting all their layered products on the net and thinking about howL to redesign the OS installation procedure. The latter would IMHO be greatly , facilitated by going back to using savesets.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:33:25 -0400n; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>u' Subject: RE: Oracle (and OT: Hong Kong)sK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA15@rlghncst964.usps.gov>e  $ Speaking of "telling Oracle", let's & "tell Oracle" that we want to see some VMS in the OTN.   * If you can get a 2-user "Lite" version for NT, Linux, etc, why not VMS?  - Don't forget to thank them for putting RDB inw the hobbyist program.e   WWWebb  7 PS- I'm going to visit Hong Kong next Chinese New Year H7     and want to learn a few spoken phrases (where's thet/     closest loo?) and perhaps read a few signs.d  9     Web research is not clear- it indicates that although-8     Cantonese was the preferred dialect, but that since 7     the handover, the PRC govt has strongly pushed for i9     Mandarin.  (And I know that lots of English is spoken2     there....)  8     Any advice?   (I took three years of Russian in high5     school so I'm not afraid of non-Roman alphabets.)m   TIA,   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----; From: "Robert Deininger" [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]7( Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 10:58 PM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" E Subject: RE: Recompile applications when migrating from OpenVMS 7.1 tt    K In article <ajlumq$d29$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:W    F >>Why do people keep saying this?  An image built on any Alpha runningH >>OpenVMS will run on any other alpha running the same or higher versionE >>of OpenVMS, even if built with architecture-specific optimizations.  >>C >>OpenVMS emulates any instructions it uses on any of its supportedsI >>platforms that don't natively have that instruction.  So, while you maydG >>impact performance, you will not build an image that you won't run on  >>some alphas. >> > K >Could someone tell Oracle this since as I mentioned in another thread theyg are H >desupporting Oracle running on EV5 and earlier alphas precisely because they) >have decided to use these optimisations.d  J Have YOU told Oracle yet?  The more people they hear from, the better.  IfH your complaint generates a response claiming "we can't do that", post itB here and folks will likely pass judgement on its technical merits.  I Even if they insist on optimizing for post-EV5, they could just recompile C to make another version optimized for older alphas, or with genericEI optimization.  I believe RDB generates some alpha code on the fly using a H version of the GEM code generator, but that should have the same options
 available.  G If Oracle has been writing source code that depends on picky details ofhG the generation-specific alpha architecture, they have some really nasty " work coming when they port to IPF.  < I doubt they are that silly.  This whole thing sounds like aF politcal/marketing decision, with no technical basis beyond some minor build/kitting details.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:44:10 -0400a* From: "Kaledas, Ronald" <RKaledas@dmc.org>. Subject: RE: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1L Message-ID: <B39B28A01B62D311B1360090277B3A58070F784B@tro-nt-exchg2.dmc.org>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24A03.858F8D10  Content-Type: text/plain;h 	charset="iso-8859-1"   E It does appear to be maxbuf - we are set to 64000, and I've talked tooL several sources who point me in that direction.  It appears that engineering, is close to releasing an rms patch for this.  ? I plan to test this when I get access to the environment later.    Thanks for your help!f Ronr     > -----Original Message-----> > From: ken.randell@fortel.com [mailto:ken.randell@fortel.com]* > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:48 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > Subject: Re: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1 >  > 5 > Check your value for MAXBUF and tell us what is ...  > B > I think I have found an issue with C (it's in RMS I bet, not theA > C-RTL) where if you do something simple (like getc() calls), itlB > appears to be broken if MAXBUF is set to a large (i.e., > 40000)& > value.  I think the default is 8192. > 
 > Ken Randell  > 8 > "Kaledas, Ronald" <RKaledas@dmc.org> wrote in message @ > news:<B39B28A01B62D311B1360090277B3A58070F7827@tro-nt-exchg2.d > mc.org>...C > > I'm having a strange problem that I hope someone can help with.a > > ; > > In our test cluster, we were running vms E7.3-1 (field O > test) with tcpip 5.3 > > and oracle  H > > 7.3.3.6 (and also oracle 8.1.7.3).  Yesterday, I upgraded vms to the > > production version of1@ > >  V7.3-1.  Nothing else changed.  When the cluster came back  > up, everything
 > > worked> > >  fine...except SVRMGRL and SQLPLUS.  When you telnet into  > the node, or come@
 > > in via? > >  reflection X, invoking svrmgrl produces the following two m > lines (after the > > normal header):: > > 5 > > MGR-11401: input error, unable to read input line>/ > > MGR-01508: unable to close the current files > > ? > > Invoking sqlplus, without a username/password, is supposed   > to prompt anda > > wait for the? > >  username.  It comes up with the username prompt, and then M > immediately exitsO > > back to dcll/ > >  without waiting.  Invoking sqlplus with a o! > username/password gets into thep > > program, but then ? > >  the sql> prompt then keeps appearing and scrolling up the s > screen as if you > > were holding= > >  down the RETURN key!  So, it seems to me these programs a > are acting like  > > sys$input is not' > >  defined, or something like that.  a > > > > > Here's the kicker...everything works fine if you SET HOST  > into the node. > > SVRMGRL andh# > >  SQLPLUS both work as expected.t > > 	 > > Argh!t > > < > > Everything else seems to work fine, any other program I  > run, just not0 > > oracle.  I've tried ? > > logging in with /nocom, in case there was some interaction o > there, I've triedm > > defining sys< > > $input, I've done this in oracle 7.3 and 8i, and I also  > booted off the > > backup copy of the> > >  system disk, to see if the problem was in oracle, but it  > worked fine there! > > @ > > It seems to be some interaction with TELNET and oracle, but  > the tcpipo > > version DID NOT ? > > change!  I also reinstalled tcpip 5.3 and the mup for 5.3, w > but that didn'te > > change anything.? > > Oh, and I didn't have the mup in place right away, so this   > happened botha > > with and without
 > >  the mup.s > > > > > I've logged a call, but Colorado support is also not sure  > what else to lookw > > at.[ > > $ > > Does anyone here have any ideas? > >  > > Thanks,  > > Ront > >  > > -- >   ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24A03.858F8D10	 Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableC  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =o charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2653.12">o4 <TITLE>RE: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms 7.3-1</TITLE> </HEAD>n <BODY>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It does appear to be maxbuf - we are set to 64000, =9 and I've talked to several sources who point me in that =VG direction.&nbsp; It appears that engineering is close to releasing an =e rms patch for this.</FONT></P>  @ <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I plan to test this when I get access to the = environment later.</FONT>s </P>  . <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for your help!</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ron</FONT>n </P> <BR>  8 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>: <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: ken.randell@fortel.com [<A =I HREF=3D"mailto:ken.randell@fortel.com">mailto:ken.randell@fortel.com</A>=  ]</FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:48 PM</FONT>d8 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>B <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: oracle/telnet-tcpip 5.3/vms = 7.3-1</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>d <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>oI <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Check your value for MAXBUF and tell us what is = 	 ..</FONT>e <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>nG <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I think I have found an issue with C (it's in =. RMS I bet, not the</FONT>tG <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; C-RTL) where if you do something simple (like =f getc() calls), it</FONT>D <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; appears to be broken if MAXBUF is set to a = large (i.e., &gt; 40000)</FONT>5= <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; value.&nbsp; I think the default is =O 8192.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>2* <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Ken Randell</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>15 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &quot;Kaledas, Ronald&quot; =.1 &lt;RKaledas@dmc.org&gt; wrote in message </FONT>e <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =sI news:&lt;B39B28A01B62D311B1360090277B3A58070F7827@tro-nt-exchg2.d</FONT>=,  , <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; mc.org&gt;...</FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; I'm having a strange problem that I hope =l someone can help with.</FONT>o$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; In our test cluster, we were running vms =e E7.3-1 (field </FONT> 3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; test) with tcpip 5.3</FONT> / <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; and oracle </FONT> G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; 7.3.3.6 (and also oracle 8.1.7.3).&nbsp; = ' Yesterday, I upgraded vms to the</FONT>h9 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; production version of</FONT>h? <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; V7.3-1.&nbsp; Nothing else = 1 changed.&nbsp; When the cluster came back </FONT>l- <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; up, everything</FONT>n* <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; worked</FONT>> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; fine...except SVRMGRL and =+ SQLPLUS.&nbsp; When you telnet into </FONT> 0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the node, or come</FONT>* <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; in via</FONT>C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; reflection X, invoking svrmgrl =e" produces the following two </FONT>/ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; lines (after the</FONT> 3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; normal header):</FONT>s$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>E <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; MGR-11401: input error, unable to read =  input line</FONT>eE <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; MGR-01508: unable to close the current =r file</FONT>y$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>: <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Invoking sqlplus, without a =& username/password, is supposed </FONT>, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; to prompt and</FONT>0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; wait for the</FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; username.&nbsp; It comes up with the =w! username prompt, and then </FONT> 0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; immediately exits</FONT>/ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; back to dcl</FONT>oD <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; without waiting.&nbsp; Invoking = sqlplus with a </FONT>> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; username/password gets into the</FONT>5 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; program, but then</FONT>dB <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the sql&gt; prompt then keeps =& appearing and scrolling up the </FONT>/ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; screen as if you</FONT>a0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; were holding</FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; down the RETURN key!&nbsp; So, it =" seems to me these programs </FONT>. <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; are acting like</FONT>4 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; sys$input is not</FONT>? <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; defined, or something like =a that.&nbsp; </FONT>k$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Here's the kicker...everything works fine = if you SET HOST </FONT>e- <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; into the node.</FONT>n/ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; SVRMGRL and</FONT>u9 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SQLPLUS both work as =  expected.</FONT>$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>) <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Argh!</FONT>b$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Everything else seems to work fine, any = other program I </FONT>o, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; run, just not</FONT>= <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; oracle.&nbsp; I've tried </FONT>CH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; logging in with /nocom, in case there was = some interaction </FONT>0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; there, I've tried</FONT>0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; defining sys</FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; $input, I've done this in oracle 7.3 and =e 8i, and I also </FONT>- <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; booted off the</FONT> 6 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; backup copy of the</FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; system disk, to see if the problem =o was in oracle, but it </FONT>n1 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; worked fine there!</FONT> $ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; It seems to be some interaction with =o TELNET and oracle, but </FONT>( <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the tcpip</FONT>4 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; version DID NOT </FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; change!&nbsp; I also reinstalled tcpip 5.3 =b and the mup for 5.3, </FONT>. <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; but that didn't</FONT>4 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; change anything.</FONT>E <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Oh, and I didn't have the mup in place =  right away, so this </FONT>a, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; happened both</FONT>4 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; with and without</FONT>2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the mup.</FONT>$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; I've logged a call, but Colorado support =g is also not sure </FONT>0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; what else to look</FONT>' <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; at.</FONT>s$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>D <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Does anyone here have any ideas?</FONT>$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>+ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Thanks,</FONT>c' <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Ron</FONT>i$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>& <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>i </P>   </BODY>( </HTML>v) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C24A03.858F8D10--e   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 05:59:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)02 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE3 Message-ID: <f+9xLY+Pl$8R@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  K In article <3D647068.614FE748@hp.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes:r@ > To support the change in the DCL image, we had to increase the) > supervisor stack as well as modify RMS.p > . > So the answer is absolutely no back porting.  = Thank you very much.  The last thing third parties need is tow@ have trouble reports for their software on some copies of V5.5-2 but not others.e   > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  >> Guy Peleg wrote:c >> >" >> > Without any commitment !!!!!! >> > >> > Rough estimate is V7.3-2b >>0 >> Back ported to ... ? (V5.5-2? Pretty-please?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:12:05 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>d& Subject: Products incl in NAS package.' Message-ID: <3D649CD5.83155CB4@aaa.com>h   Hi.a  2 I'v a system with a NET-APP-SUP-200 licens loaded.  8 What is the easiest way today (apart from looking in the; non-existent original docs) to find out what products couldd be run under this licens ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:10:08 +0200l9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o* Subject: Re: Products incl in NAS package.' Message-ID: <3D64D4A0.5454FDD5@aaa.com>e  
 Thanks John !t   (It's an Alpha Server 1200.)  C And I'v actualy found the SPD on "http://www.compaq.com/info/SPD/".i  : It's a bit confusing, some products (well, just PATHWORKS)6 are, in some way, included in the "package", but needs separate licenses to by used !?d1 Why "include" PW in the NAS package at all then ?s  7 And the SPD don't mention "Adv Serv", only "PATHWORKS".H  9 And there is no guarantee that any later versions of eacho7 product then those menthioned in the SPD will work witht the NAS licens at all.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:28:03 -0400.  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* Subject: Re: Products incl in NAS package.5 Message-ID: <1020822070810.1685B-100000@Ives.egh.com>d  G On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Jan-Erik =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?S=3DF6derholm?=3D wrote:2   > Hi.  >=204 > I'v a system with a NET-APP-SUP-200 licens loaded. >=20: > What is the easiest way today (apart from looking in the= > non-existent original docs) to find out what products could  > be run under this licens ? >=20 > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.   
 Alpha or VAX?   @ According to the "OpenVMS Alpha Software Products Library Master@ Index" (AV-RN7DG-XE) - part of the June 2002 layered products CD6 packaging, near the end is a list of the NAS packages.  > NAS-200 includes Advanced Server (aka Pathworks), DECnet-Plus,; DCPS, DECwindows Motif, Pathworks (V6) and TCP/IP Services.   = It also notes that RMS Journaling, clusters, DECnet (IV), andnA volume shadowing are part of the NAS packages, but are on the O/St: CD's, not the LP CD's.  It isn't clear if all NAS packages" include all these products or not.  8 An old DECDirect catalog of the right vintage would also? say what's included.  The 1995 catalog has a table on page 268.   @ Or the experimental approach.  Install and load the NAS license, then see what works.     --=20r John Santos[ Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:06:40 -0400i6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>Y Subject: re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe accp4 Message-ID: <3D651A20.6010409@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>  ( j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 wrote:  >=  > While we've got the v6.2-008 compiler on OpenVMS v7.2-1h1,i  > and v5.9-011 on Tru64 v4f(?)t  E Any C RTL ECOs installed could also be very significant in this area.p  I > In article <craigberry-5B416C.09012122082002@news.directvinternet.com>, < >  "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> writes:? > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/index_alpha.html>c >   P >         Anyhow, not only do I not find in these documents, but I also not findI >         in some hardcopy docs (dated 1998 and refer to DECC v6.0 that aeN >         coworker dusted off for me) anything more to suggest what SHOULD andN >         SHOULD NOT be expected to work when using putenv().  Or setenv() forK >         that matter [found THAT one once I perused that hardcopy docset]..  I On OpenVMS, after a spawn, vfork(), system() or other event that creates   a child H process, the parent process will not see any changes in the environment 	 variablese made by a child process.  F Also a child process will not see changes in the enviroment variables 6 made by the parent after the child processes creation.  D Be sure to read the release notes for the compiler and for any ECOs 
 installed.   > L >         While getenv() for OpenVMS seems to clearly be able to access bothP >         DCL-presented SYMBOLS (LOCAL and GLOBAL) and LOGICAL NAMES in the sameO >         way that getenv() for Unix accesses Shell-based ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES-M >         and make their values accessible to a running program, and putenv()KL >         for Unix [Tru64] clearly is able to allow a running program to putP >         a variable out for later use in the same shell script that invoked theM >         program, I can't seem to find any of the environment variables that O >         my OpenVMS-based putenv() calls are creating after the program exits._  L It appears that the environment array that setenv() and putenv() modifies is$ local to the application in OpenVMS.  J I do not know why it does not update the DCL symbol table, but it might beJ that it is ambigous as to which symbol or logical table should be updated.  H After all, getenv() does not tell you where it got the symbol from so ifJ putenv() updated the global symbols, and there was already a local symbol,  the update would not be visible.  A And updates to local symbols do not survive the exit from commandV procedures.o  L >         Even these docs sited by Craig here fail to address this question.O >         IS IT EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK?  Or should I rewrite that chunk of code,( >         to have:  C You could put #ifdef __VMS conditionals in your code as you stated.i  G I would recommend creating a separate module named dcl_putenv that doesaE the LIB$SET_SYMBOL instead, and takes the same arguments as putenv().   C Then for the OpenVMS build of the modules that call putenv() add a 1E /DEFINE=("putenv=dcl_putenv") to the CC line.  Then the OpenVMS builds will have a extra module.s  F I can not find putenv() in "The Open Group" Single UNIX specification,G but it is documented in the current Compaq C Run-time Library manual ina the URL you previously quoted.     -Johna! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hpi Personal Opinion Onlyo   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:46:41 GMTo) From: "dutchman2000" <dutchman@atari.net>S+ Subject: Reading VAX VMS backup tapes on PC@9 Message-ID: <Rz899.52$qI5.46931@dca1-nnrp2.news.algx.net>t  J Can anyone tell me how to read VAX VMS backup tapes using a PC running DOSC or Windows?  I have an M4 9914 tape drive connected to a SCSI card.o   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 08:51:25 -0700- From: rdls22@jnatx.com (Stephen L. De Rudder)  Subject: rename c rtl bugm< Message-ID: <81c810ad.0208220751.7b7d580@posting.google.com>  C I found the following bug (feature) in the rename c rtl.  Here is a A small smipit of code that produces the bug.  Yes I realize that I 9 could fix the code but my preference is to get VMS fixed.p  E Notes: OpenVMS Alpha V7.2, DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2, ReadS
 code commentsm   Thanks for any help. SLDR (Stephen L. De Rudder) rdls22@jnatx.com   ====== Cut Here :-) =======  #include <stdio.h> #include <errno.h>   /*1   I assume the two files exists on an ODS-5 disk:R   a.b    a.b.c_new_  /   Dir will display file a.b.c_new as a^.b.c_new   &   Before running do SET PROC/PARS=EXTE */  
 int main() {,
   int ret;  
   /* Works */     ret = rename("./a.b","./a.c");     /* Does NOT work */i)   ret = rename("./a.b.c_new_","./a.b.c");i   ret = errno; /* ret=65535 */  
   /* Works */3%   ret = rename("a.b.c_new_","a.b.c");      return errno;t }    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:10:18 -0400n5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>h Subject: Re: Roadshow update* Message-ID: <ak2nru$ctl$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  + Public Sector = state and local governement.K as far as the UK question goes.  I have not heard anything about a roadshow / in Europe, if I do I will make sure to post it.t  
 Warm Regards,w suet  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:ak0gos$j68$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear Newsgroup,  > L > The following is from the HP manager responsible for the Itanium roadshow.K > This is in response to some of your questions and statments regarding theaC > roadshow.  As soon as we have additional information we will post! >T > SueLF > I'm assuming this is the newsgroup you mentioned to me in an earlier e-mail.-L > During some of my surfing in the newsgroup, I've found some things which I; > thought needed clarification, and I've listed them below.T >EG > - First, the road show is being put on my the HP Americas U.S. PublicO SectorI > Sales group. So I can't speak to what may or may not go on in the UK oro anyr* > other part of the world for that matter. >nF > - Because the Public Sector group is doing the road show, this would explain<I > why commercial customers did not hear about it via a printed and mailede
 > invitation.  >eI > - Again because it's a Public Sector thing, the cities selected are notN theE? > usual, rather they are beneficial to the Public Sector group.n >MI > - The tag line "with OpenVMS there is not question" is only the half ofA theRK > marketing tag. The first half is "to re-boot or not to re-boot". When putFG > together, I think they convey what OpenVMS is all about. They are notO meantB  > to convey anything separately. >bK > - A second phase is planned with city and date selection almost complete.3 >s	 > Thanks,F >> > Mark Langford3 >&" > BCS Business Development Manager >/ > U.S. Public Sector Sales >  >c >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:17:56 -0400&; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: Roadshow updateK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA1A@rlghncst964.usps.gov>i  : We had a lot of .edus and possibly a few .mils as well as 8 federal, state and local .govs at the one in Raleigh....   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----< From: "Sue Skonetski" [mailto:susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com]' Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:10 AMB To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"  Subject: RE: Roadshow update    + Public Sector = state and local governementeK as far as the UK question goes.  I have not heard anything about a roadshow>/ in Europe, if I do I will make sure to post it.B  
 Warm Regards,0 sue@  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:ak0gos$j68$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear Newsgroup,r >eL > The following is from the HP manager responsible for the Itanium roadshow.K > This is in response to some of your questions and statments regarding themC > roadshow.  As soon as we have additional information we will postp >3 > Sue F > I'm assuming this is the newsgroup you mentioned to me in an earlier e-mail.7L > During some of my surfing in the newsgroup, I've found some things which I; > thought needed clarification, and I've listed them below.O >hG > - First, the road show is being put on my the HP Americas U.S. Publice SectorI > Sales group. So I can't speak to what may or may not go on in the UK org anyT* > other part of the world for that matter. > F > - Because the Public Sector group is doing the road show, this would explaineI > why commercial customers did not hear about it via a printed and mailed>
 > invitation.E >2I > - Again because it's a Public Sector thing, the cities selected are noti then? > usual, rather they are beneficial to the Public Sector group.3 >&I > - The tag line "with OpenVMS there is not question" is only the half of/ thesK > marketing tag. The first half is "to re-boot or not to re-boot". When put1G > together, I think they convey what OpenVMS is all about. They are not& meant;  > to convey anything separately. >nK > - A second phase is planned with city and date selection almost complete.& > 	 > Thanks,n >q > Mark Langford= >s" > BCS Business Development Manager >B > U.S. Public Sector Sales >  >< >N   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:42:14 GMT&' From: Ford Prefect <spam@microsoft.com>p< Subject: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD, Message-ID: <3D64C002.6070508@microsoft.com>   Hi,3  F Like the subject line says. I would like to get a bootable image I can< play around with using simh under FreeBSD. After exhaustive E web-searching (well Google anyway which is spot-on 90% of the time) I3: can't find anywhere that offers such a thing for download.  G I used VMS V8.0 years ago, but I don't have the capacity for additionaltE hardware to love. Plus I'd love to see VMS (even emulated) running on  a 1.3GHz Int*l CPU.r  G Oddly, rsts/e is easy to find - it even works on my HP200LX palmtop ...b  & Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:48:14 GMTt- From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr>3@ Subject: Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD1 Message-ID: <yY599.16$wI.248954@news.cpqcorp.net>N  4 "Ford Prefect" <spam@microsoft.com> wrote in message& news:3D64C002.6070508@microsoft.com...  I > I used VMS V8.0 years ago, but I don't have the capacity for additionalG   HelloO   Congratulations !3' I juste use an old Vms 7.3 at the time. B I would be very pleased if you could share a copy of this Vms V8.0   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:48:41 +1000E* From: James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com>) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?>9 Message-ID: <pan.2002.08.22.16.42.53.167445.24834@hp.com>2  = On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:04:02 +1000, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:&> > Now, to make things run faster, I'm thinking of loading thisJ > configration data into a (app specific) logical name table. [...] Anyone8 > seeing any problem with this ? Or any other drawback ?  J Sounds like a lot of work for a return on investment that is comparable toH another method, which is to enforce buffering of the configuration file.? Can't you just enable global buffers on the configuration file?;  G I think it is even faster if you have the file open shared read most of>* the time.  Why not take some measurements?  I Caution: enabling global buffers can exhaust global page count and globalmI section count.  The performance enhancements can be extraordinary though. J I hit a general ledger end of month process with it once, and took the runF time of a batch job from two days to half an hour.  Back in the V5.5-2G days.  With virtual I/O caching nowadays, the enhancement can be lower.h   --
 James Cameron>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:14:58 +0200g9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?p' Message-ID: <3D648F72.1459CEA9@aaa.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote:N > = > There used to be some nit if you got over half a million orI# > so. How do you define `large'? ;)I   As in my original post :-)  G Currently aprox 1350 logicals, so there don't seems to be problem here.2? Probebly miced things up with the process/job logical tabels.../   Jan-Erik Sderholm >2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:48:39 +0200i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>N) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?F' Message-ID: <3D64EBB7.FD3C9E1F@aaa.com>F   To finish of this thread...   1 I'v done some test and the logical name table wayE is the way I'll do it.  > The current DCL proc takes 0.28 CPU sec to do a single lookup.  + I can do 50 F$TRNLNM() in 0.01 CPU sec. (!)A4 This is from the fully populated table where I'v put! the 1350 configuration variables.l  " Regards and thanks for the input !   Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 08:04:34 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ?a3 Message-ID: <XsoL99837IJu@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  f In article <pan.2002.08.22.16.42.53.167445.24834@hp.com>, James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com> writes:? > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:04:02 +1000, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:w? >> Now, to make things run faster, I'm thinking of loading thishK >> configration data into a (app specific) logical name table. [...] Anyone!9 >> seeing any problem with this ? Or any other drawback ?d > L > Sounds like a lot of work for a return on investment that is comparable toJ > another method, which is to enforce buffering of the configuration file.A > Can't you just enable global buffers on the configuration file?3   No.  That's not the way to go.  D We're talking about $ OPEN, $ READ (in a loop) and $ CLOSE.  TurningH on global buffers isn't going to buy you anything on the OPEN and CLOSE.G And if nobody else the file open, they aren't going to buy you anythingd> on the READ either.  In any case, they're not going to buy you, much that a hefty multiblock count wouldn't.  B And global buffers don't work on files opened for read only accessE unless you fiddle with turning on the MSE bit (if I remember right -- ? it's been a lot of years).  I had to prove this to a particular"@ application vendor one time.  Turned on read/write access to hisB "open for read-only" database files and showed him how performance improved by a factor of 10.l  = Yes, DCL OPEN, READ, CLOSE isn't the fastest way to process alD configuration file.  But what are the alternatives?  Write a programD to read it in?  And then where do you put the results?  In a logical? name table?  Good idea.  But why not precreate the logical namea? table and save yourself some time.  Indeed, that's the poster's  bright idea.  A Or you could read the config file in your application.  And cache:E the key/value pairs in process virtual memory.  And look them up with0B some kind of hash table.  But why re-invent the wheel.  Store them@ in a logical name table.  And save yourself some time, build the@ logical name table once at system boot time.  Indeed, that's the poster's bright idea.   I > I think it is even faster if you have the file open shared read most ofr, > the time.  Why not take some measurements?  A It's a sequential file.  Keeping it open for shared read buys youe less than nothing.  K > Caution: enabling global buffers can exhaust global page count and globalnK > section count.  The performance enhancements can be extraordinary though.eL > I hit a general ledger end of month process with it once, and took the runH > time of a batch job from two days to half an hour.  Back in the V5.5-2I > days.  With virtual I/O caching nowadays, the enhancement can be lower./  B No question, global buffers can be a big win.  But not for reading? sequential configuration files containing a moderate volume (75iE kilobytes if I remember right) of key value pairs.  Building a sharedb@ logical name table is hugely better for the application at hand.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:10:12 +1000 @ From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: tcpware smtp4< Message-ID: <3d64a009$0$26220$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   cool,c  
 some info.  $ I will do that first thing tomorrow.   cheers   antony  8 "Michael Corbett" <corbett@PROCESS.COM> wrote in message" news:3D63CC9B.40900@PROCESS.COM... Antony Wardle wrote:   > 5.4-3g >tK > I think I have a call logged with you guys, but its getting on for 5 days  > now. > I > I guess your answer is coing be, this is no longer supported - upgrade.eG > Not really an option, unless I get some kind of assurance that my old * > legacy application isn't going to break!   >:H > I am intending on putting on the SMTP patch 543p080 in the next couple > of weeks.h >  >     * Turn on debugging for the SMTP symbionts -  0 $ define/sys/exec tcpware_smtp_sybmiont_log true  A This will create a TCPWARE:TCPWARE_SMTP_LOG.<queue-name> for each > SMTP queue.  Then search the log file for the files names thatB are getting left in the spool directory and see they give any clue$ why the files are being left around.   regardsa Mike   --K +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+cD Michael Corbett                           Email: Corbett@process.comB Process Software                          Phone: 800 722-7770 x369B 959 Concord St.                                  508 879-6994 x369= Framingham MA 01701-4682                  FAX:   508 879-0042r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:01:41 +0200 2 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@notsoFree.fr>, Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2, Message-ID: <3D647E43.5F128D4F@notsoFree.fr>   Franklin wrote:e > H > Very good question. Perhaps I was unclear... the telnet session begins7 > normally, I get the VMS banner. Then the card catalognM > ("Information Gateway  --  V2.5-2 Copyright 2000, Data Research Associates, J > Inc.  All Rights Reserved.") starts up.  It is this card catalog programB > that is sending control characters such as ^O. I don't know why.  N If my memory is good, ^N and ^O are used in text files (or command procedures)M to turn on and off semi graphics rendition (x becomes |), enabled via <ESC>(0r and disabled via <ESC>(B.v   D. --  1   ===> Remove notso before replying via mail <===t   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:29:43 +0000 (UTC)b% From: John Forkosh <john@invalid.com>l, Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2, Message-ID: <ak2sgn$6a8$3@reader2.panix.com>  % Franklin <joshua@www.iocc.com> wrote:,N : OK. there's an OpenVMS 7.2 machine set up running a library card catalog for> : a couple of universities. The interface is all telnet-based.M : It appears to work relatively well from Windows (HyperTerm, cmd.exe telnet,hJ : TeraTerm, etc.) with the exception of sending a form-feed to the default : printer. o :(I : However, I'm having a problem with a telnet from linux hosts, I believeeJ : because the interface sends a ^O control character. Has anyone run into I : this kind of problem before? I'm not the admin of the machine, but if IaL : could get some clear steps I could forward them to the appropriate person.M : Alternatively, if anyone knows of some workarounds on the linux end I could  : put together an FAQ for it.   @ Robert Deininger was on the right track.  I had the same kind of@ problem a while back, and someone on this ng explained it to me.<      There's a bug in the current tcp/ip implementation that= thrashes the machine if you telnet to it with a terminal type- it doesn't recognize. @      Try an  echo $TERM  from your Linux box and you'll probably> see  linux  which is unknown to vms.  Before telnetting to the@ vms box,  just issue  TERM=vt100  (make sure vt100 is lowercase,A upper won't work for some reason I don't know), or issue whateverS6 is appropriate if your shell isn't bash.  Then telnet. Works like a charm!!!- -- -> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 10:12:00 -0400& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz), Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.21 Message-ID: <ak2rfg$345$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   , In article <slrnam85li.r48.joshua@iocc.com>,% Franklin <joshua@www.iocc.com> wrote: H : In article <ak0u5o$2ii$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: : ...O+ : > Why is it sending a Ctrl-O character?  h : H : Very good question. Perhaps I was unclear... the telnet session beginsM : normally, I get the VMS banner. Then the card catalog ("Information GatewaytF : -- V2.5-2 Copyright 2000, Data Research Associates, Inc.  All RightsI : Reserved.") starts up.  It is this card catalog program that is sendingRK : control characters such as ^O. I don't know why.  It is supposed to be an/J : ANSI interface, I think, though TERM settings of VT100, ANSI, etc. don't : seems to make any difference)5 : # : > To "shift out" from ASCII to an"G : > 8-bit character set such as the Right Half of ISO 8859-1 on a 7-bit-B : > connection?  Then you need a Unix telnet program that supports3 : > (a) character sets, and (b) Shift-In/Shift-Out:a : > 1 : >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html  : >  : > - Frankt : = : Thanks for the tip, but ckermit exhibits the same behavior.  :  You have to set it up:     set term byte 7i   set term locking-shift ons  I Also in case the library software is using a different character set thancF your terminal emulator, you need to tell Kermit what the two sets are:  (   set term char <remote-set> <local-set>  K Type "help set term" at the C-Kermit> prompt for details or see the manual.y   - Frankn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:27:33 -0000i$ From: joshua@www.iocc.com (Franklin), Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2, Message-ID: <slrnama0n5.rvl.joshua@iocc.com>  F In article <ak2rfg$345$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote:. > In article <slrnam85li.r48.joshua@iocc.com>,' > Franklin <joshua@www.iocc.com> wrote:eI >: In article <ak0u5o$2ii$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote:' >: ..., >: > Why is it sending a Ctrl-O character?   >:  I >: Very good question. Perhaps I was unclear... the telnet session begins N >: normally, I get the VMS banner. Then the card catalog ("Information GatewayG >: -- V2.5-2 Copyright 2000, Data Research Associates, Inc.  All RightsgJ >: Reserved.") starts up.  It is this card catalog program that is sendingL >: control characters such as ^O. I don't know why.  It is supposed to be anK >: ANSI interface, I think, though TERM settings of VT100, ANSI, etc. don'ta  >: seems to make any difference) >: o$ >: > To "shift out" from ASCII to anH >: > 8-bit character set such as the Right Half of ISO 8859-1 on a 7-bitC >: > connection?  Then you need a Unix telnet program that supportse4 >: > (a) character sets, and (b) Shift-In/Shift-Out: >: > s2 >: >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html >: > n >: > - Frank >: b> >: Thanks for the tip, but ckermit exhibits the same behavior. >: e > You have to set it up: >  >   set term byte 7l >   set term locking-shift oni > K > Also in case the library software is using a different character set thanFH > your terminal emulator, you need to tell Kermit what the two sets are: > * >   set term char <remote-set> <local-set> > M > Type "help set term" at the C-Kermit> prompt for details or see the manual.  > 	 > - Frank   D Sorry for taking up your time. It appears that the problem was with F incorrect ANSI handling in the specific terminal emulator program that, was being used. A different one worked fine.   -- r Joshua Daniel Franklin Network Administratort IOCC.COM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:15:36 -0000r$ From: joshua@www.iocc.com (Franklin), Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2, Message-ID: <slrnama00p.rvl.joshua@iocc.com>  J In article <Xns9271ED5F28AF4acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>, Andy wrote:4 > joshua@www.iocc.com (Franklin) enlightened us with' > news:slrnam85li.r48.joshua@iocc.com: d > B >> In article <ak0u5o$2ii$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz
 >> wrote: 0 >>> In article <slrnam7n06.i1q.joshua@iocc.com>,B >> Very good question. Perhaps I was unclear... the telnet session@ >> begins normally, I get the VMS banner. Then the card catalog B >> ("Information Gateway  --  V2.5-2 Copyright 2000, Data ResearchB >> Associates, Inc.  All Rights Reserved.") starts up.  It is thisB >> card catalog program that is sending control characters such asB >> ^O. I don't know why. It is supposed to be an ANSI interface, IB >> think, though TERM settings of VT100, ANSI, etc. don't seems to >> make any difference)  > C > (I didn't know they (DRA) were still doing VMS-based card catalogsB > software though from the looks of it ( http://www.dra.com ) theyD > appear to have merged with someone else and the DRA product is now > called DRA Classic.) >  > Have you tried DRA support ? h  C Precisly the problem. DRA *isn't* around anymore. This card catalog 7 should go with them, IMHO, but that's not my decision. h -- e Joshua Daniel Franklin Network Administratorc IOCC.COM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:07:28 -0400c) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> - Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha Basic example programst: Message-ID: <SJ299.6672$xL1.1205089@news20.bellglobal.com>  3 "David Gray" <GrayD@turpinltd.com> wrote in message:L news:79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE418E@zakary.turpin-distribution.com.. .M >m > Greeting all,  >FK > I find myself in the position of needing to write a routine in VAX-BASIC.eC > Quite honestly, it's been sometime since I have done this and was 	 wonderingsI > if anyone knows of a good site with some example programs.  The OpenVMScL > documentation site gives small code snippets but not what I'm looking for. >rH > I'm trying to include an .RRD file in the basic program as output fromI > Oracle RMU/UNLOAD.  We have BASIC but nobody has ever used it, hence non8 > source code to look through.  We also do NOT have CDD. >n > XDS_APACHE> typ cw.rrd5 > DEFINE FIELD LAST_NAME DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 14.a6 > DEFINE FIELD FIRST_NAME DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 10.0 > DEFINE FIELD DBKEY DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 8. > DEFINE RECORD CANDIDATES_VW. >    LAST_NAME . >    FIRST_NAME .  > END CANDIDATES_VW RECORD.- >  > Thanks in advance, > David. >t > OpenVMS 7.1 (alpha)p > DEC/COMPAQ/HP BASIC V1.3 >a  J I've got some example Compaq-BASIC programs (for VAX and/or Alpha) on lineL here but nothing for Oracle/RDB since our shop still uses RMS. Since I wrote$ them all, they're free for download.  8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_vax_vms.html  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,- Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:54:44 GMT ) From: "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com>.& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion6 Message-ID: <Xns92725AACF3977jknoxtrisoftcom@10.0.0.1>  5 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote insD news:rdeininger-2108022238480001@1cust211.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net:   F > In a all-at-once port to alpha, you'll be changing the hardware, theF > OS, and the compiler(s).  It won't work at first, and you'll have to! > worry about everything at once.u > G > Updating the software on VAX might really be a bad idea, but it's noth  > obvious to me at first glance.  C I agree with you both on principle, really I do.  Changing multipleiG stuff at once goes against normal engineering ideals.  But it is not atcC all clear that it is worth buying several VAX's (especially 8600's,aF complete with star coupler drive clusters), installing airconditioningA and utility lines, having the purchased machines shipped here and G installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3 will save us *that*a much money and time.        a/ ------------------------------------------------
 James M. Knox-/ TriSoft                        ph  512-385-03160/ 1109-A Shady Lane              fax 512-366-4331 / Austin, Tx 78721              jknox@trisoft.com / -----------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:31:42 -0400 + From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>l- Subject: Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?r8 Message-ID: <gct9mu4arb01osiea5s7m71jrf9cmuuae6@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:41:41 -0000, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote:S  E >What Fortran can do only now, and only on some platforms, C has been1 >able to do for a decade.r  F And what Fortran has been able to do for four decades, C can't do yet. :-)m   SteveF   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 07:54:47 -0700% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c- Subject: Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?h) Message-ID: <ak2tvn01kpn@drn.newsguy.com>   F In article <gct9mu4arb01osiea5s7m71jrf9cmuuae6@4ax.com>, Steve says... >m5 >On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:41:41 -0000, Michael Zarlengai  ><zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote: >hF >>What Fortran can do only now, and only on some platforms, C has been >>able to do for a decade. >:G >And what Fortran has been able to do for four decades, C can't do yet.m >:-)  L All too true. I get hundreds of pages of errors when I run my Fortran source code through the C compiler :-).   >Steve   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:52:06 -04000> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>( Subject: RE: XFC v2 ECO, negative reportM Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D032C3B9E@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>    > -----Original Message-----% > From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospamo( > [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]* > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 5:41 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc* > Subject: Re: XFC v2 ECO, negative report > 8 > In article <3d638f43$1@cpns1.saic.com>, "Scott Stark" " > <starkh@saic.com_nospam> writes:@ > :Any update?  Based upon the original post, does this seem to  > be SMP related?b? > :I've successfully installed on a two-node DS10 cluster (not l > SMP) and haven't& > :seen any of the problems as listed. > H >   The OpenVMS engineer most familiar with XFC is directly working withE >   the reporting customer site, and the engineer is actively pursing 5 >   details of the configuration and local operation.  > = >   There is presently an attempt underway to replicate this   > error here inaG >   OpenVMS Engineering, having built a configuration with the releventoH >   OpenVMS components and particularly having downloaded and configured8 >   the other locally-relevent privileged-mode software  > component that isy >   apparently relevent here.i > H >   To date, we have not managed to replicate the reported error here inH >   OpenVMS Engineering.  There is, however, a working theory as to what> >   might be occuring within this site-specific configuration. > @ >   This does NOT presently appear to be a generic problem with  > XFC.  Theg? >   OpenVMS V7.3-1 systems in the main engineering clusters as o > well as "my"@ >   local V7.3-1 systems are all still running with XFC enabled. > < >   As relevent details are known and particularly when the  > guilty (software)b  J Just a guess, but probably lack of quadword alignment when doing async I/OE in the "other locally-relevent privileged-mode software component".  e  @ >   component (XFC or otherwise) is confirmed, more information  > will follow. >  > 	--i > = >   This may provide yet more fodder for my upcoming OpenVMS   > Hints and Kinksn >   presentations, too. :-)  o >  > 3 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>   > ----------------------------- 6 >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.openvms.compaq.com    2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------aL    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 2002 15:23:22 GMT4 From: "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlowNoSpam@data911.com>( Subject: Re: XFC v2 ECO, negative report0 Message-ID: <ak2vla$f75@dispatch.concentric.net>  ) What was the original XFC problem posted?tG I can not currently find the original problem message in the newsgroup.   K I installed the XFC patch; but have stayed at VCC=1 until the dust settles.n Please advise. Thank you.p  C (Note: AUTOGEN does not detect an error if you specify too large of>( a MIN_VCC_MAXSIZE value in MODPARAMS.DAT< On a 256 Mb memory AlphaServer DS10 I accidentally specified MIN_VCC_MAXSIZE = 1024000t' for 500 Mb instead of 102400 for 50 Mb..; I did an @sys$update:autogen savparams setparams nofeedbacke? On shutdown, the system's reboot_check did not detect an error.o> On reboot, I got fatal VIOC errors that would eternally crash, reboot, crash, reboot etc.3 I could not override through a conversational boot.hA I simply restored my system disk from the suggested backup beforem) making the change and corrected my math.)p   Jim Strehlow, Data911.comw Alameda, CA, USA  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagec$ news:ak11de$npk$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > 7 > In article <3d638f43$1@cpns1.saic.com>, "Scott Stark"   <starkh@saic.com_nospam> writes:F > :Any update?  Based upon the original post, does this seem to be SMP related?G > :I've successfully installed on a two-node DS10 cluster (not SMP) and  haven't-& > :seen any of the problems as listed. >-H >   The OpenVMS engineer most familiar with XFC is directly working withE >   the reporting customer site, and the engineer is actively pursing:5 >   details of the configuration and local operation.  > J >   There is presently an attempt underway to replicate this error here inG >   OpenVMS Engineering, having built a configuration with the relevent2H >   OpenVMS components and particularly having downloaded and configuredI >   the other locally-relevent privileged-mode software component that ist >   apparently relevent here.  > H >   To date, we have not managed to replicate the reported error here inH >   OpenVMS Engineering.  There is, however, a working theory as to what> >   might be occuring within this site-specific configuration. >nI >   This does NOT presently appear to be a generic problem with XFC.  ThehK >   OpenVMS V7.3-1 systems in the main engineering clusters as well as "my"y@ >   local V7.3-1 systems are all still running with XFC enabled. >oB >   As relevent details are known and particularly when the guilty
 (software)L >   component (XFC or otherwise) is confirmed, more information will follow. >l > -- > L >   This may provide yet more fodder for my upcoming OpenVMS Hints and Kinks >   presentations, too. :-)v >d >m( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------.L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >w   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.462 ************************d to the default : printer. o :(I : However, I'm having a problem with a telnet from linux hosts, I believeeJ : because the interface sends a ^O control character. Has anyone run into I : this kind of problem before? I'm not the admin of the machine, but if IaL : could get some clear steps I could forward them to the appropriate person.M : Alternatively, if anyone knows of some workarounds on the linux end I could  : put together an FAQ for it.   @ Robert Deininger was on the right track.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ß    ğ    ş    Ɵ    ǟ    ȟ    ɟ    ʟ    ˟    ̟    ͟    Ο    ϟ    П    џ    ҟ    ӟ    ԟ    ՟    ֟    ן    ؟    ٟ    ڟ    ۟    ܟ    ݟ    ޟ    ߟ        ៦    ⟦    㟦    䟦    埦    柦    矦    蟦    韦    ꟦    럦    쟦    ퟦ            🦪    񟦪    򟦪    󟦪                                                    