1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 23 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 463       Contents:2 Re: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233% backup & restore across VMS versions? ) Re: backup & restore across VMS versions? ) Re: backup & restore across VMS versions? $ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex$ Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex* DECwindows/Printing from the TS10 emulator' Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap  Re: Fortune Magazine wrapperP Re: forwarding email from system to system (was: RE: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedP Re: forwarding email from system to system (was: RE: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re:  HP-CompaP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqP RE: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaq" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly Re: HPETS2002 questions  Re: HPETS2002 questions . Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: Oracle (and OT: Hong Kong)) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE ) Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE " Problem with JDK1.3 on OpenVMS 7.3& Re: Problem with JDK1.3 on OpenVMS 7.3! Re: Products incl in NAS package. ! Re: Products incl in NAS package. @ Re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, butP re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe accP Re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe accP Re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acc& Re: Reading VAX VMS backup tapes on PC7 Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD 7 Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD  set file/data_check (REPOST)  RE: set file/data_check (REPOST)  Re: set file/data_check (REPOST) Re: tcpware smtp# Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 @ V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter? Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion  Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion * Wanted: vax/vms cobol programming position Re: XFC v2 ECO, negative report   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 14:27:06 -0700+ From: seanobanion@attbi.com (Sean O'Banion) ; Subject: Re: ??== Open VMS jumper in Alphastation 400 4/233 = Message-ID: <f883d5a4.0208221327.136b6af3@posting.google.com>   x aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) wrote in message news:<aus-2208021143180001@wvia20.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>...F > It seems the hardware jumper information is incorrect. I was able to$ > switch to the OpenVMS boot consol.   You might try:  . http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/archive/400/    , Have a look at the Documentation from there.     Sean   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:18:24 -0400 + From: "Robert Schaefer" <rschaefe@gcfn.org> . Subject: backup & restore across VMS versions?7 Message-ID: <ak426h$dhe$1@ronco.freenet.columbus.oh.us>   K How well does BACKUP handle restores to a newer version of OpenVMS?  I have L a few machines (VAX 6000-320, VAXstations 3100-40 and 4000-90) all running aK flavor of 5.5.  I'd like upgrade to the latest version, as it seems to be A H Good Thing to be current, but I don't want to just blow away the currentK configs.  As these are hobbyist machines, that is an option, but I'd rather J keep the bits around.  I hope to one day understand enought to go back and5 appreciate how it worked in a production environment.    Bob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:02:59 GMT " From: bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger)2 Subject: Re: backup & restore across VMS versions?A Message-ID: <nJg99.139906$SS.6151073@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   - "Robert Schaefer" <rschaefe@gcfn.org> writes: L >How well does BACKUP handle restores to a newer version of OpenVMS?  I haveM >a few machines (VAX 6000-320, VAXstations 3100-40 and 4000-90) all running a L >flavor of 5.5.  I'd like upgrade to the latest version, as it seems to be AI >Good Thing to be current, but I don't want to just blow away the current L >configs.  As these are hobbyist machines, that is an option, but I'd ratherK >keep the bits around.  I hope to one day understand enought to go back and 6 >appreciate how it worked in a production environment.  J The price of extra disks for the vaxstations has come down enough that youI can purchase, for example, some extra RZ25's and make physical backups of H your 5.5 disks.  After that you can play happily, falling back etc.  YouH never know if you'll run into a license issue or some other frustration % when you make a leap like 5.5 to 7.x.   L Probably better to use disks than to invest in TK drives.  I've gone throughH about three TK drives trying to read old tapes and recover lost goodies.   Later    Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:25:53 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: backup & restore across VMS versions?, Message-ID: <3D65AB40.293AE9CA@videotron.ca>   Robert Schaefer wrote: > M > How well does BACKUP handle restores to a newer version of OpenVMS?  I have N > a few machines (VAX 6000-320, VAXstations 3100-40 and 4000-90) all running a > flavor of 5.5.    L Be very careful as you transit through VMS 6.0 (or was it 6.1 ?). Its backupM is flawed and needs a patch, otherwise, it will fail.  After having installed H that version, you need to install a patch available on the net for it to function properly.    ) Otherwise, it works fine across versions.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 15:15:55 -07001 From: glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Glen Martin) - Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex = Message-ID: <6e2f14f4.0208221415.11467356@posting.google.com>   J >     Is this actually an Alphaserver 2100A or the older Alphaserver 2100.I >     My documentation for early Alpha 2100s mentions the following EISA   >     ethernet card option :-  > O >     DE422-SA    (Digital systems and options catalogue April 1994 supplement)  >     ' >     and a PCI ethernet card option :-  > P >     DE435-AA    (Digital systems and options catalogue April 1994 supplement)  >     7 >     These were some of the very earliest Alpha 2100s.  >   C My bad. Not "A" models. They are actually an AlphaServer 2100 4/275 B (rackmount) and an AlphaServer 2100 4/200 (pedestal). Not sure whyF they shipped with DE101 cards, as they were purchased before I started
 working here.   4 Not trying to get to 100Mb/s, just 10/Full Duplex...  E Assuming that I can get my hands on a couple of DE500-XA cards (which B is iffy), does anyone know if there is a patch that allows them to@ function under VMS 6.2? (Last time I checked, they required 7.x)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:34:31 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: DE101 - can it go to Full Duplex , Message-ID: <3D65AD47.3090801@tsoft-inc.com>  K For VMS you will want DE500-BA devices.  At least that's my understanding.  P Check the FAQ, I think this is addressed there.  I'm sure it's in the archives, + as I remember such discussions in the past.   O There became rather available on E-Bay.  Of course, that was after I purchased  ( my stash, and cheaper.  Such is my life.  O I'd have to look, and you can do it as easily, but I think that VMS V6.2 might  
 be supported.    Dave     Glen Martin wrote:  J >>    Is this actually an Alphaserver 2100A or the older Alphaserver 2100.I >>    My documentation for early Alpha 2100s mentions the following EISA   >>    ethernet card option :-  >>O >>    DE422-SA    (Digital systems and options catalogue April 1994 supplement)  >>    ' >>    and a PCI ethernet card option :-  >>P >>    DE435-AA    (Digital systems and options catalogue April 1994 supplement)  >>    7 >>    These were some of the very earliest Alpha 2100s.  >> >> > E > My bad. Not "A" models. They are actually an AlphaServer 2100 4/275 D > (rackmount) and an AlphaServer 2100 4/200 (pedestal). Not sure whyH > they shipped with DE101 cards, as they were purchased before I started > working here.  > 6 > Not trying to get to 100Mb/s, just 10/Full Duplex... > G > Assuming that I can get my hands on a couple of DE500-XA cards (which D > is iffy), does anyone know if there is a patch that allows them toB > function under VMS 6.2? (Last time I checked, they required 7.x) >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:29:34 -0500 (CDT) 2 From: Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@ClearSource.net>3 Subject: DECwindows/Printing from the TS10 emulator I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0208220016290.10420-100000@Linux.monceaux.com>   H Well, I got DECwindows running on Tim Stark's TS10 vax emulator with theE display going to my Linux box.  What a rush.  Actually, my first time H seeing DECwindows.  I saw a few posts saying it was possible to copy theH DECwindows fonts from VMS to Linux.  The posts I've found simply said toI copy the font files to a directory on the Linux box and add the directory J to it's font path.  I've tried this but I am getting some 'font not found'J errors.  I copyed the font files to Linux via FTP.  They ended up being inF all uppercase and having a ;1 tacked on the end of the file name.  I'mG guessing that may have confused Linux.  I've tried a few things such as D removing the ;1, converting the file names to lower case, etc.  Does* anyone have any details on this procedure?  C Also, I've been told by some that some Linux printing systems don't G cooperate with printing from VMS.  Before I beat my head against a wall I too much trying to set up my "VAX" to print to Linux does anyone know one H way or another of CUPS, the Common Unix Printing System, plays well with@ VMS?  I think I have both sides configured correctly but I get aH %SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected error when I try toI print anything.  I haven't been able to find in any logs on the Linux box J any indication that a connection was even attempted.  If CUPS doesn't workI well with Linux can someone recommend a printing subsystem for Linux that  does work with VMS?        Thanks,      Kevin    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:34:16 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine and a post-VMS rap, Message-ID: <3D652098.1000200@tsoft-inc.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:     M > An illustration of the sort of performance problems that "cruft" can cause:  > D > It is a goal of VMS to allow programs built on earlier versions to: > continue working on later versions, without recompiling. > I > There are a number of places in VMS where user-written code shares data E > structures with the OS.  These structures are typically defined via  > compile-time symbols.  > L > The old structures were designed to be compact; some date back to the daysI > of the 256 kB VAX 11/785.  Items that would be quadwords (or larger) if H > defined today were defined as bytes or words 25 years ago.  This oftenJ > results in items in the structures being misaligned on an alpha system. ( > There can be a big performance impact. > E > In some cases, new structures can be implemented while the old ones E > continue in  exist for old programs.  Some structures have internal J > versioning, so the OS can adapt to various versions automagically.  ThenL > just recompiling with the latest symbols definitions brings a user programK > up to date.  In other cases, the user's source code would have to change, L > setting a new bit or switch or whatever.  Either way, the OS likely has toI > deal with interactions between both the old and the new simultaneously, = > since not every user image will be rebuilt on the same day.  > L > If you could force a complete rebuild of all VMS code, you could "fix" allB > the old data structures.  But that isn't possible within the VMS > philosphy. > F > Having said all that, I think there are MANY places where VMS can be5 > improved a lot while still retaining compatibility.  >   % Very informative.  Not very relavent.   M If a totally new OS were developed, and that was the subject/suggestion, how  D much backward compatibility would there be?  Zero, zip, nada, zilch!  Q So fine, there may be a VMS with such backward compatibility, hey, there already  L is, VAX/VMS.  That in no way stops the development, using VMS as a starting O point, of a new OS with all the cruft and such updated.  It might run some old  O executable images.  No guarantees.  It may not even run stuff after re-compile  Q and re-link.  Some people, and I'm guilty, didn't always use symbol definitions.  
   So what?  J In such a project, you would retain what's good in VMS, and move on.  You & wouldn't have to re-invent EVERYTHING!  Q So, what would you do with the 'old' VMS?  You'd implement new hardware support,  Q as required.  I doubt that that would be significantly different from what would  Q be required in the 'new' VMS.  The design of such and requirements sure would be   similar, if not the code.   P So, for those who cannot re-compile, or even with sources have some things that M are not compatable, and who don't need new features (plenty of these), there  M would be 'old' VMS with new hardware support.  For the future there would be  N 'new' VMS, with some new design aimed at supporting much of what people might P want.  With cooperating partners, it could even be able to run Visual Basic and H such.  I seriously doubt that billy boy will be at all cooperative with Q something that would probably lock NT/2000/XP out of the data center permanently.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:46:57 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: Fortune Magazine wrapper , Message-ID: <3D652391.9040806@tsoft-inc.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Paul Repacholi wrote:  >  >>[snip]F >>My mail just had a notice for tommorows webcast on T64 and HPUX turn7 >>up from DECUS. The *VERY FIRST* line of the overview:  >>D >>"No operating system is more critical to enterprise customers thanG >>VMS, with its ability to deliver robust, mission-critical solutions."  >> > J > The second half of that is missing. HP acknowledges the customers' need,I > but fails to reflect it. One possible extension of that might be had HP I > said, "Likewise, no operating system is more critical HP's relationship F > with its enterprise customers than VMS. Thus, no operating system is2 > more critical to the future of HP than OpenVMS." > G > Without actually using the words, "commitment" and/or "raodmap", this J > would state, albeit ambiguously, an implication of commitment that wouldF > be difficult for all but the most skeptical to ignore. (Granted, the4 > Gatesian coningent might look at it cross-eyed...) > E > Hmmm... Wonder if I could get a job as a junior "word-smith" in the + > OpenVMS marketing org. Sue? Any thoughts?  >  >     	 I object!   L I think that you're getting way too negative.  Not saying that there wasn't  cause, but consider.  O Would anybody (besides Compaq) ever make such a comment, and follow it up with  N something like "but regardless, we choose to ignore this fact and this market L segment and these customers and will attempt to force feed them an inferior O product which they don't want and will reject and move on to our competition"? sK I think not.  If the quote truly came from HP, and is acceptable to people  P higher up the chain than Rich Marcello, then I think that something significant % is being said, and sufficiently said.o    N Just supposing, because as stated above, there has been cause to doubt in the P past, that some people in HP, long term HP people, are slowly realizing "Oh my, L this product which we've been fighting for years, and has consistantly been P beating on us, is now ours!"  Just suppose that it may take a while for this to > occur to some, and a bit longer for them to decide what to do.  P These thoughts aside, while some of the pessimism is declining, and I'm willing P to watch objectively, I still have no optimism.  That will take time and seeing Q a whole bunch more progress.  As someone pointed out, there are still the people r' that gave us things like June 25, 2001.-   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 13:03:17 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)Y Subject: Re: forwarding email from system to system (was: RE: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procede= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0208221203.3ee09276@posting.google.com>s  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KLIYNNV78U970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...G > > If anyone can tell me how to get Exchange to deliver mail to me VMSeL > > account and still appear to be from the person who actually sent it, I'd > > be grateful. s >  > Ditto for Lotus Notes.  :-)H  A Another solution could be to log into your Exchange mail via POP3v@ (port 110), and forward a COPY of your Exchange mail to your VMSC account.  This works reasonably well.  The POP3 agent that does themD forwarding doesn't even have to run from the VMS box, but it could. . Some programming would be required to do this.  E I have something like this I wrote for home which does more than just D forwarding (does pager alerts and auto file extracts as well).  RunsC about 750 lines of Perl and works marvelously.  Can run against any @ mailbox on any POP3 server and is rules based (based on the SMTPB headers).  Completely configurable.  I get forwarded email all day< that way.  (Can also function as a poorman's list-server...)  C Anyway, the above is another solution that I know works.  I *think*rE Exchange leaves POP3 open by default after installation, but could beeB turned off by the Exchange Administrator.  It's relatively easy toD determine if it's on by telneting to port 110 on the Exchange serverB in question.  Some MSX admins don't even realize it's on, which isA nice because it affords one the luxury of using an alternate POP3pD based client rather than being "forced" to use Outlook as a client. E The "log into POP3 port and forward my email to my VMS box" is a step E removed from using a POP3 client against an MSX mailbox, but entirelyOC possible if you are comfortable working with a raw port and doing aS  bit of programming or scripting.  D I would assume something along those same lines would work for LotusC Notes, but I know zero about Lotus Notes.  I know Exchange is often2 available via POP3 however.(*)  F I *guess* all this is related to VMS since the target platform in VMS!D 8-)  Hoff's points are well taken however, but he HAD to say what he said.  I didn't.  8-)    Chrisn -----b Chris OliveM colive(at)technologEase(dot)com-  C (*) Often your POP3 "username" for MSX is the same as your ExchangehB username, but it doesn't have to be.  Another MSX attribute can beA assigned as your POP3 username, so that can possibly get tricky. /F Again, often the LDAP port is open on Exchange (port 389) [I know thatC is by default], and if you are handy running LDAP queries, and your0F MSX admin hasn't turned off LDAP or binding to it anonymously, you can4 find your POP3 address THAT way if all else fails...   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 13:15:34 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)Y Subject: Re: forwarding email from system to system (was: RE: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedv= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0208221215.109be983@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KLIYNNV78U970ARJ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...G > > If anyone can tell me how to get Exchange to deliver mail to me VMSyL > > account and still appear to be from the person who actually sent it, I'd > > be grateful.   >  > Ditto for Lotus Notes.  :-)   C PS. I use Google so I can't see my last post on forwarding email byeD logging into Exchange via POP3.  Just wanted to say this method DOESE WORK as if the email came from the original receipient BTW... (if yourD write it that way, since it's like a piece of cake to spoof an email	 address.)v  D If anyone is interested in the code I've written to do this, and youF have access to a Linux/Unix box, I could post my code to SourceForge. E I don't think it's VMS-specific enough to post to a VMS freeware sitet< (like Hunter's).  Completely configurable.  I ran this "POP3C Attendant" behind a corporate firewall with 100% success doing whathA the original poster asked, but on a Linux box, not VMS, though it  could still FORWARD to VMS...a   Chriso -----o Chris Olive  colive(at)technologEase(dot)comt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:36:35 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re:  HP-Compar@ Message-ID: <THd99.22512$Aw4.939596@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6555FD.D806C846@videotron.ca... > Nic Clews wrote:G > > have been continued from the *other* site. The difference between akH > > system and a storage controller is the VMS system has the concept of > > quorum.: >5J > is there a logical reason why a storage controller couldn't have its onwJ > implementation of quorum to determine which site continues to operate in the - > event one site loses touch with the other ?K  I I suspect that the reason is that you are confusing clustering mechanisms(J with disaster-recovery mechanisms.  With the latter, only the primary siteI is active, and the secondary just accumulates changes so that it can taketC over if the primary site fails.  Thus quorum is not at issue:  evenrG fail-over requires system involvement and thus cannot be handled at thenL storage level, nor could the logistics of coordinating access to the data byH systems at both ends (a DLM at the storage level wouldn't be sufficient,K because the locking semantics primarily involve the file-access or database-L level).  The design document mentioned below does discuss bi-directional DRMC configurations, but I think only in the same way that active/activedJ fail-over clusters operate - i.e., each works on something different while" acting as a back-up for the other.  K Search the HP Web site for 'DRM' and you'll find more than I wanted to readAJ about DRM.  An early section of the DRM Design Guide separates the conceptF of high availability (which it attributes to clusters, but ignores theL option of clustering at disaster-tolerant distances) from disaster toleranceK (which it attributes to DRM - thus implying that fail-over using DRM is notr
 non-stop).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 13:48:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaqa3 Message-ID: <6O4WoWV20f7w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <NDXI4$G$viWi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:e  ; > 	in Google reveals little.  But since the CF has to be on-A > 	one end or other (yes, you can have more than one but wouldn'teH > 	that be a big bandwidth >>> intra-site <<< issue?) how do the systems   	Meant inter-site@   				Robo   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 14:37:59 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)sY Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaq = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0208221337.70053ecd@posting.google.com>t  F There's a great whitepaper from Illuminata entitled "Disaster TolerantR Unix" at http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pdf  ? Despite the title, it presents a lot of VMS cluster theory.  Its1 includes info about IBM and Sun products as well.y. ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 03:03:19 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaq1- Message-ID: <878z2yemx4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:d  < > There will be some performance penalty in any asynchronous? > replication schemes which preserve write ordering, of course.w  D Can you avoid a lot of the penalty, and can you preserve the effectsD of write ordering by not allowing other access from the beginning of6 the recovery till when all the data has been mirrored?   IE  L IOs -- bad stuff -- IOs that are collected in the cache of the controller --L recover HW -- cache is *TOTALLY* flushed ( for all units in set )-- proceed.  N So although there is no order preserving *in* the flush phase, there is across
 the flush.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.N@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:21:40 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqiB Message-ID: <oef99.130279$m91.5870528@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:878z2yemx4.fsf@prep.synonet.com...u5 > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  > > > > There will be some performance penalty in any asynchronousA > > replication schemes which preserve write ordering, of course.i >nF > Can you avoid a lot of the penalty, and can you preserve the effectsF > of write ordering by not allowing other access from the beginning of8 > the recovery till when all the data has been mirrored?  H Write-ordering is an issue during normal operation, not during recovery.L The problem is ensuring that the order of writes (or at least acquisition ofD dirty data) on the replica is the same (or at least is appropriatelyJ partially-ordered) w.r.t. the order of writes on the primary, so that whenH the primary fails the secondary has a crash-consistent copy to work withK rather than a grab-bag of whatever writes happened to complete the transfersJ (which would not provide a recoverable environment in any case where writeH order was important:  that's not a problem for file systems like vanillaK UFS, since it doesn't order its local writes anyway, but would be death forbF ODS-2 or a log-protected file system, where ordered writes to disk are critical for recoverability).0   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:28:54 GMTp* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqiB Message-ID: <alf99.137783$2p2.6269036@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:NDXI4$G$viWi@eisner.encompasserve.org...iI > In article <VXW89.123974$SS.5457580@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill & Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > B > > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message; > > news:cf15391e.0208211559.290b6a01@posting.google.com...2 >e > >>K > >> Improvements in cluster interconnect performance (like Memory Channel,lJ > >> Galaxy Shared Memory Cluster Interconnect, and Gigabit Ethernet) haveJ > >> helped DLM performance greatly as well.  Technologies like InfiniBandJ > >> could help in the future.  And VMS Engineering keeps cranking out newK > >> DLM features like the speedier lock remastering in 7.2-2 and above andhJ > >> the dedicated-CPU lock manager option for reduced spinlock contention > >> in SMP systems (see4 http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/gordon.ppt). > >rJ > > There are aspects of the CF approach which are likely to remain faster thanH > > the DLM approach will ever be (at least when executing on comparableF > > hardware) - though whether they constitute any kind of significant( > > differentiator is subject to debate. > >l >a3 > There has to be issues with the CF and Geoplexes.S  E I think they may be exactly the issues that were discussed about GDPS K replication (which would also apply to StorageWorks DRM replication).  But, E once again, that's a suspicion without any detailed foundation in thev details of the products.  G If that's true, then it's irrelevant to the statement you responded to:,L it's just another reference to the fact that normal Sysplex-style 'clusters'H (where such considerations don't apply) are considerably more limited in, geographical distribution than VMS clusters.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:22:05 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eY Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-Compaqi, Message-ID: <3D6555FD.D806C846@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:E > have been continued from the *other* site. The difference between a F > system and a storage controller is the VMS system has the concept of	 > quorum.   H is there a logical reason why a storage controller couldn't have its onwL implementation of quorum to determine which site continues to operate in the+ event one site loses touch with the other ?   L It would seem to me that storage arrays should be superior to VMS since theyN are dedicated to providing disk services, but the way they are described, theyD are (still) significantly inferior what what VMS has had since 1991.  H > set the truth, and why in some cases a two node cluster with two votes@ > and a means of manually forcing quorum is actually a desirable > situation.  L It depends on the type of system. If downtime is acceptable, then yes, humanM decisions are sometimes better, but sometimes, mission requirements really dor; require "instant" failover that is automatic and foolproof.a  F There have been many discussions over time in this forum about variousX scenarios where quorum works quite well to prevent data corruption/cluster partitioning.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:21:30 -0400y' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>cY Subject: RE: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replication (was Re: HP-CompaqNT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660955@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,d  E >>> It would seem to me that storage arrays should be superior to VMSf8 since they are dedicated to providing disk services, <<<  ; Hey - sounds like you are looking for a Storage Sales job..e   :-)   F The reality is that one needs to remember that a storage controller isH just a system with its own OS, its own "sysgen" type parameters, its ownH monitoring tools and its own resource mgmt concerns. Storage controllers  can do some things very well.=20  D However, the storage controller has no knowledge of what the host isH doing or in the case of a VMS cluster, what all of its hosts with direct access are doing.,  G Based on this, I view the role of a storage controller is to assist theoB host with the management of data. Due to the host integrity issuesD associated with new cache and DLM / cluster designs, I would suggestG that the storage controller will never (ok, never say never), reach theaG point where the storage controller will be in charge of data integrity.m   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant" Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20? Sent: August 22, 2002 5:22 PMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComcF Subject: Re: Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex and replicationH (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)e     Nic Clews wrote:H > have been continued from the *other* site. The difference between a=20I > system and a storage controller is the VMS system has the concept of=20r	 > quorum.   H is there a logical reason why a storage controller couldn't have its onwH implementation of quorum to determine which site continues to operate in/ the event one site loses touch with the other ?   G It would seem to me that storage arrays should be superior to VMS since C they are dedicated to providing disk services, but the way they areuH described, they are (still) significantly inferior what what VMS has had since 1991.t  H > set the truth, and why in some cases a two node cluster with two votes  C > and a means of manually forcing quorum is actually a desirable=20v > situation.  F It depends on the type of system. If downtime is acceptable, then yes,< human decisions are sometimes better, but sometimes, missionG requirements really do require "instant" failover that is automatic andm
 foolproof.  F There have been many discussions over time in this forum about various7 scenarios where quorum works quite well to prevent datac  corruption/cluster partitioning.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:16:18 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly 1 Message-ID: <ST999.23$yX.608293@news.cpqcorp.net>S  6 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >d  J I started to reply to your increasingly silly statements in kind, when the/ newsreader keeled over.  So while I was away...    Lets see.  Revenue...h  >                  FY2000                                 FY2001 FY2002J   Q1       Q2       Q3      Q4       Q1       Q2       Q3      Q4       Q1 Q2       Q3      Q4uK 3,122  3,553  4,004  5,017  5,045  5,115  4,095  3,995  2,861  3,108  3,107M 3,420d  G Starting in Q3 of FY01, Sun's revenues declined from a high of $5.1b to(G $2.9b - not quite in half.  Since then, Sun has clawed it's way back upaK "almost" to the revenues they had in Q2 of FY00 - two and a half years ago.d  A You have seen quarter-over-quarter growth to reach revenues stillA? *considerably* lower than those you enjoyed *all* of last year.e  L Two and a half years ago, you were earning 21 cents a share, at your revenueK peak you were down to 12 cents, you had 4 consectutive quarters of loss, ann< anemic 1 cent profit, and a likely 1 cent loss this quarter.  J Your P/E for the quarter is something like 37 (N/A for the year).  You areH trading $1 a share over book.  Having lost over 40% of your stockholders@ value in the last 3 months, and something like 70% for the year.  J Even your IDC claims are attempts to spin quarter-to-quarter recovery into
 "real" gains.t  G I'd suggest you stop spinning, and stop throwing stones from your glasst house.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:38:36 -0400sK From: "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net>w  Subject: Re: HPETS2002 questions/ Message-ID: <umb81ntgs984fd@corp.supernews.com>-  6 OVMS and Alpha sessions to date (www.hpets2002.com)...   Technical Breakout Sessions...  3 1035 Advanced Server and PATHWORKS Technical UpdatetG 1032 An Introduction to the Use of BMC's PATROL for OpenVMS Performancee	 AssuranceaC 1710 An Overview - How to Replace Your VAX with CHARON VAX Softwaren	 Emulation92 1369 Case Studies in Oracle Tuning: a WAITing game: 1038 Compaq Secure Web Server (based on Apache) on OpenVMSJ 1147 Configuring the ES45 and GS1280 (Marvel) and their I/O Subsystems for Performance and Availability2 1108 Data Security Using Secure Socket Layer (SSL)' 1053 Disaster-Tolerant OpenVMS ClustersmB 1292 I/O Performance Using PCI-X on the New Family of AlphaServersH 1482 Implementing High Performance NFS Cluster File System Solutions for Large ClustersA 1332 Intel Itanium 2 Processor Technology for the Enterprise - An  Architectural OverviewL 1385 Lessons Learned from Optimizing Numerical Weather Models on AlphaServer SC Platforms" 1040 Marvel/USB Support in OpenVMS' 1083 OpenVMS and Linux Interoperabilitye 1062 OpenVMS Backup Strategy2 1015 OpenVMS Cluster Software Technical Directions 1080 OpenVMS Engineering Panel 1074 OpenVMS Hints and Kinks- 1017 OpenVMS Storage/SAN Technical Directions 2 1173 OpenVMS Technical Update and Product Roadmaps( 1036 OpenVMS UNIX Portability Initiative 1094 OpenVMS: How It All Began# 1085 Porting Open Source to OpenVMS F 1039 Porting OpenVMS Applications to the Itanium (TM) Processor FamilyH 1078 Porting the OpenVMS Operating System to the Intel Itanium Processor Family9 1014 Powering Your Business with HP AlphaServer Solutions 7 1201 Real-life Case Study of Multi-site OpenVMS Clustery" 1022 Securing OpenVMS Step by StepE 1392 Show Me the Money! -- Methods for Quantifying ROI for Server and  Storage Consolidation ProjectsH 1081 System and Performance Management with Availability Manager/DECamds* 1047 TCP/IP V5.3 Technical Update & Beyond: 1299 The Next Generation AlphaServer (Marvel) ArchitectureH 1095 The OpenVMS Calling Standard for the Itanium Processor Family (IPF)B 1224 The Third Porting: Applying Past Lessons to the Alpha/Itanium
 Transition) 1492 Tips for Setting Up SANs for OpenVMS@F 1493 Troubleshooting Your AlphaServer from the SRM/SCM/RMC Console and  Maintaining the Console Firmware: 1045 Tuning and Troubleshooting TCP/IP Services on OpenVMS! 1052 Volume Shadowing Performancee   Pre-Conference Seminars...  ? 1573 How to Replace Your VAX with Charon VAX Software Emulation L 1398 Open Up Your OpenVMS Data and Applications - Old and New - to the World of Web Services 2 1054 OpenVMS Cluster Internals and Data Structures< 1024 OpenVMS System Management Techniques, Tools, and TricksE 1400 OpenVMS V7.3 Performance Management - Getting the Most from Yours OpenVMS System2 1055 Using OpenVMS Clusters for Disaster Tolerance. 1365 Deploying hp Secure Web Server on OpenVMS   Hands-on Workshops...   . 1365 Deploying hp Secure Web Server on OpenVMSF 1686 Finding and Resolving VMS Performance Problems Using VMS-supplied Performance Tools J 1683 Introduction to System Dump Analyzer (SDA) by Viewing OpenVMS Process	 InternalsaI 1077 Using V7.3-1 Utilities (SCACP & AM) to Manage & Troubleshoot Clusterd Communications   General Sessions...   / 1583 General Session: Business Critical SystemsbH 1591 Symposium Wrap-up: HP is committed to Itanium and Industry Standard Servers,   BoF's...   1228 Events and Threads      --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.cci  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------o  7 "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com> wrote in message 7 news:8debc3ff.0208221206.4ff89428@posting.google.com...c
 > Hello -- > C > 1) What are the approximate daily hours of the conference?  I seetH > there are opening keynotes, and even a keynote that starts at 05:00pm.D >  In particular, I'm interested on how late on Friday this runs.  IH > can't seem to get a schedule without registering, but I don't have the% > right magic paperwork for this yet.  >AC > 2) Is the session catalog 'complete', or are sessions still being  > added? >GG > 3) Any trouble in booking hotels (yet)?  It may be worth noting thereaG > are hotels in downtown St. Louis that aren't on the 'official' HP-ETSDH > list that are cheaper -- The Drury Inn at the Covention center is one, > and is within several blocks.s >tD > 4) Who categorizes the sessions?  For example, session 1710 in theE > 'Default' Track deals with 'How to Replace your VAX with CHARON VAXa> > Software Emulation'.  Shouldn't this be in the 'OVMS' track? >o > 5) Any 'magic' sessions? >-C > 6) Who's chartering the tour (with free samples of course) of theh > local brewerys/pubs/etc.?c >R	 > Thanks.i >l
 > Ken Randella   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:17:29 -04008K From: "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net>i  Subject: Re: HPETS2002 questions/ Message-ID: <umbdr4rvbspqa0@corp.supernews.com>u  E The system won't allow hotel registration without registering for theo conference first.y  K FYI - HP is concerned enough about this most HP employees cannot make their-I Hotel arrangements until September 3.  This is to allow the customers and ( partners first shot at the close hotels.  G We made a business decision to allocate money to the conference contentuC (read things like equipment for hands-on sessions) over things like(G amusement parks.  As one can imagine in this climate the budget is veryt> tight this year.  The good news is that content was protected.   --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.ccc  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------   4 "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> wrote in message5 news:Xns9272EB4693F8Bkenrbnsnrbnsncom@207.172.3.55...oG > "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net>?; > wrote in news:umb6ick395v74@corp.supernews.com (in part):a >  > >e > > 3) Hotels are going fast.a > G > I'm almost certain that I will be signing up to go (85 to 90%). Is ithI > possible to sign up for a hotel without registering at the same time. I. can-( > always cancel the hotel if I can't go. >  >1C > Is there going to be an evening at an amusement park this year? Ia
 understand8 > that there is a Six Flags park not far from St. Louis. >, > Thanks > Ken Robinson > DECUS (Encompass)# 147078r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:40:07 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>17 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?j, Message-ID: <3D655A35.F8F20CE0@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:( > > > http://redherring.com/investor/2002/08/contrarian081902.html  L For as much as I may agree with the author's conclusions, the article itselfH isn't very convincing and his lack of mention of enterprise divisions atK Compaq and HP (only mentioning printers making profits) is a big "turn off"nK when reading the article because it becomes apparent that the author didn'tr+ look at the whole of the two organisations.y  N Few if any mergers ever bring forth all the promises made by the proponents. IL don't think that anyone really believed Carly when she made all her glorious
 promises.   J The bizarre thing about this merger is that I have yet to hear about plamtN closures and production rationalisation. When Compaq bought Digital, it didn'tJ take long at all before it was announced that DEC's PC production plant inL Kanata would be shutdown/sold. I think that it was announced even before theE canadian subsidirary of Digital was formally absorbed by the canadianr subsidiary of Compaq.e  I So far, the only closure I have hear about was the alpha systems plant ineJ scottland, and that is simply because Alan Grieg mentioned it a few times.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:31:29 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?iA Message-ID: <lve99.138480$SS.6047304@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>-  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D655A35.F8F20CE0@videotron.ca... > Alan Greig wrote:a > >i@ > > http://redherring.com/investor/2002/08/contrarian081902.html >-G > For as much as I may agree with the author's conclusions, the article  itselfJ > isn't very convincing and his lack of mention of enterprise divisions atH > Compaq and HP (only mentioning printers making profits) is a big "turn off"F > when reading the article because it becomes apparent that the author didn't- > look at the whole of the two organisations.s  J Perhaps he just looked at recent figures.  For example, in the last CompaqL financial report (2002Q1), its Enterprise Computing division (Alpha systems,K NSK, Intel servers, and storage) as a whole contributed only $18 million to B the bottom line - minus whatever general operating expenses should# reasonably have been charged to it.e  I 2001Q4 wasn't all that much better:  $56 million in operating income fromeI Enterprise Computing (again, minus whatever should be charged for generalrK operating expenses).  In both cases, this was *after* the accounting changedF that made things look considerably better than the previous accountingF practices would have.  And in 2001Q3, Enterprise Computing took a $104E million *loss* (plus whatever should be charged for general operatingh
 expenses).  H I think your perception of where Compaq's profits (such as they may haveJ been) come from is over a year out of date, since it seems to have been atG least that long since Enterprise Computing contributed significantly totH them.  The combination of the Alphacide and the merger apparently took aG major toll, because up until mid-2001 Enterprise Computing seemed to belL weathering the slowdown considerably better than most other divisions withinI Compaq:  true, profits were only $74 million in 2001Q2, but revenues felleG off a cliff in 2001Q3, had a brief come-back in 2001Q4 (when there werebI reports of a couple of large, non-repeatable sales), and then returned to H rock-bottom in 2002Q1.  The only profitable Compaq division since 2001Q1I worth mentioning has been Global Services, but since most of that revenuelF derives from earlier Enterprise system sales one can expect that to be+ drying up too, just with a year or two lag.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:14:43 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?oJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2208022214430001@1cust47.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  5 In article <3D655A35.F8F20CE0@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:     J >So far, the only closure I have hear about was the alpha systems plant inK >scottland, and that is simply because Alan Grieg mentioned it a few times.y  I Much of the alpha systems manufacturing that was being done in Ayr is noweI being done in Erskine.  Some alpha component-level manufacturing is still = done in Ayr by the company that bought the place from Compaq.i  H I understand some people were laid off in the shuffle, but AFAIK, mainlyG the PC business was hit.  I haven't heard of a slowdown in alpha systemi production.y   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 02:45:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: New missive from HP- Message-ID: <87d6saenq6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:-  E > BTW, haven't heard too much about good old MC these days. What's he B > up to?  Hanging out with Dick Cheney in an undisclosed location?  D Leading a pole and fagot lead recovery I hope. If HP want to improveD their image and customer perception, feeding MC to a door would be a realy good start.t   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:59:20 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r  Subject: Re: New missive from HP' Message-ID: <3D657FD4.301A7FDC@fsi.net>h   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:K > > Seems to me, the odds would favor taking some heat just in an effort tooA > > reduce the sniping. Ask yourself the question: how many iratee > > ex-customers can I afford? > P > But if easy solutions to make those irate customers happy again  are presented5 > to you, why wouldn't you accept those suggestions ?e  C *I* would accept them in a heartbeat, if I were in such a position. / Those who are do not share my feeling, however.r  N > If you insist on continuing the irritating comments or VMS-ignoring that youP > are told irritates your customers, doesn't that mean that you enjoy irritating > your customers ?  H If true, than all perspective has been lost. The goal of a company is toD sell product for a profit. Perspective has been lost by anyone whoseG goal is to irratate rather than help customers by selling them productsl$ they need at prices they can afford.  B I quote Zig Ziglar: You can get everything ... you want! Just help( enough other people get what they want!"   -- e David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:13:13 GMTc* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: New missive from HPB Message-ID: <t6f99.130203$m91.5865165@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  . "Andy" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in message8 news:Xns927258B5D63A6acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232...: > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> enlightened us with; > news:uLZ89.126032$SS.5576925@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com:  >h > >v2 > > "Andy" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in message< > > news:Xns9271EAAEFC8ABacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232...D > >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> enlightened us with$ > >> news:3D6447F8.3A3837B2@fsi.net: > >  > > ...n > >a@ > >> >> Bill Gates doesn't agree. he wants everyone to know that@ > >> >> everything is running on Windows.  And he is winning the > >> >> war. > >>C > >> Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see this as a war. It's evolution.p@ > >> Right now Bill Gates is like all those gigantic prehistoricA > >> mamals just before the last ice age. He's been lucky and thedD > >> competition hasn't been as tough. But that isn't the same thing > >> as winning. > >cD > > I think you may seriously misunderstand the way evolution works, >d1 > No. I have a fairly clear idea of how it works.t >m@ > > and how (in whatever sense it may) that applies to operating > > systems. >e= > That might be true. I don't think it actually DOES apply to C > operating systems. It was just meant as an analogy & not meant to   > be the definitive explanation. > A > While from your point of view VMS is the dinosaur that has been9: > out-evolved by those pesky little mammals like Windows I > don't agree (surprise!). >hC > Microsoft has continually TRIED to force the evolution of Windowsw? > into something to replace more robust operating systems (VMS,FA > Unix, whatever) and has yet to succeed in any way EXCEPT in thet@ > battle for mindshare in the public. Just because dinosaurs areA > popular doesn't mean they continue (or even should) to walk the  > earth.  C It still appears that you don't understand how evolution works.  InoI particular, you appear to confuse a corporation's (Microsoft's) size withe& its product's (Windows') adaptability.  @ While over the past 25 years VMS has contracted from the world'sL widest-ranging OS ('desktop to data center' wasn't just a catch-phrase) to aH product found only in a few niches, Windows (over 20 of those years) hasL expanded from MS-DOS's feeble attempts to be user-approachable to dominatingI the entire computing landscape *except for* some niches (and continues tosG nibble away at them as well).  Even ignoring the desktop, Intel servers:F account for 40% of *all* server revenue (and something like 85% of allH server units, but that measure doesn't take size properly into account):0 just what do you think most of them are running?  J If you don't consider making Microsoft the largest software corporation inH the world and dominating the computing landscape 'success', exactly whatJ other criteria do you consider more important?  Quality?  Hah!  If qualityI doesn't sell, it doesn't qualify.  Windows is already 'good enough' for asH great many uses, and continues - slowly - to increase the uses for whichG that is true:  it may never cover *all* of them, but what remains won'tlJ sustain a half-dozen or more major top-end niche systems, more like 1 or 2B (and those will be ones that have owners willing to fight for that privilege).2  I And Microsoft *is* still vigorously trying to morph Windows into a systemeI capable of expanding into those niches it doesn't already occupy, whereassH cHumPaq is doing absolutely zilch to expand VMS use.  Now please tell meF once again why you expect VMS to succeed, despite the complete lack ofA interest from its owner, and Windows to fail, despite its alreadyO= overwhelming acceptance and vigorous attempts to increase it.B   > D > You can only go so far with the Microsoft approach to OS evolution: > and I believe that in the long run it WILL be a failure.@ > But fortunately, unlike some, I don't get paid for making suchC > pronouncements and am not liable for them. In fact, I don't think C > I would know what an Armani suit looks like if I tripped over it.  >9< > What I DO see is that people seem to be looking for simple< > explanations for the current state of affairs in operating= > systems. Too simple. There appear to be at least 10 factorsl= > that EACH has its' own acolytes saying "This is the reason"p >M > [Hmmm... 10...?] >n > We have, in no special order:  >tC > [1] - Blame THEM - It is the fault of Digital||Compaq||HP for nots$ >     properly treating this assett.   No question about that.v   >iA > [2] - If they hadn't killed the Alpha (or VAX or the PDP-10)...2: >     (They being someone in #1) we would ALL be using VMS  J Nah - killing Alpha was just another symptom of your previous point.  TheyJ would have had to do a hell of a lot more than just not kill Alpha to have1 made the VMS market into what it could have been.b  G However, Alpha *could* have succeeded even if VMS did not.  The reversehF could I suppose be true as well, but it would require that VMS's ownerK demonstrate far more interest in making VMS succeed than it demonstrated in57 making Alpha succeed, and that is not happening at all.t   > < > [3] - Blame Microsoft for all the problems of the OS world  H Nope.  Save for certain dubious business practices, I admire Microsoft'sL ability to have succeeded with a mediocre product.  If competent competitionK had existed that would not have happened, but since that competition didn'tt: exist at least we're left with *something* people can use.   >o@ > [4] - Must have been SUN's fault for making Digital irrelevant$ >     in the markets Digital started  * Nope:  DEC's fault for letting them do it.   >e; > [5] - Low Mindshare amoung college students leads to doomu= >     because the executives of tomorrow think Windows is IT. ? >     (Or whatever they used in College - this must explain theT: >      current 'replace everything that doesn't have a web$ >      interface' mode of operation)  ) Just another example of your first point.    >t= > [6] - No affordable VMS systems for the masses = decreasing2 >     mindshare/market share > = >       It's the cost stupid ! (The - "Give VMS away for free-6 >     and it will suddenly take over the world" crowd)  L Nope.  Give VMS away for free, and it would mostly benefit only those peopleE who already use it:  the rest of the world just isn't interested (forpI reasons ranging from ignorance to considering it 'strange' to distrust oftL its owner), and until something has been done to generate that interest cost is not a primary issue.t   >u@ > [7] - It's the technology - Windows/Unix/Linux/whatever does a: > better job so we won't succeed until we become JUST like >     them.e  K VMS is a bit antiquated in a few respects, but otherwise it's more the lacktI of popular interfaces (perhaps 'personalities' is a more descriptive terms4 for the problem) than any technological inferiority.   >D! > [8] - It's all in the marketingu  L Nope.  Marketing is necessary but not sufficient:  VMS as it stands today is* not for everyone, or even for most people.   >sB > [9] - Selling PC's is killing us! Kill the PC & Invest the money
 >     in VMS.   I Nope.  It's *focusing* so single-mindedly on PCs that killed Compaq.  IBM)J figured out how to sell them without taking its eyes off the prize; Compaq should have as well.   >a: > [10]- It's all because of the ranting and raving over in5 > comp.os.vms. If everyone stops complaining VMS will0 >     suddenly be born-again.m  = Of course.  And the Tooth Fairy will preside at its delivery.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:58:50 GMT ! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>s  Subject: Re: New missive from HP> Message-ID: <Xns9272D51FC8BECacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  8 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> enlightened us with; news:t6f99.130203$m91.5865165@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com: e    rB > It still appears that you don't understand how evolution works.   6 Hmmm.... I'm going to have to think of a better way to4 explain what I mean by it then.... (but not tonight)  6 > In particular, you appear to confuse a corporation's@ > (Microsoft's) size with its product's (Windows') adaptability.  7 So.... I won't go back to the quality vs. mindshare vs.e? "karma is going to catch up on Bill Gates/Microsoft eventually"-B since you're not buying it :-). (I'm not in the Gates/Microsoft is4 evil camp myself so it's a hard sell for me anyway)   E  4 >  Windows is already 'good enough' for a great many@ > uses, and continues - slowly - to increase the uses for which  > that is true:   6 Maybe I don't want to accept the "good enough" axiom ?  > > Now please tell me once again why you expect VMS to succeed,  ? Hmmmm.... I didn't say anything about "expecting" it to happen.-> (And if you think I did one of us didn't communicate the point very well.)   : I believe that it CAN succeed but all of the single mindedB issues/problems that seem to be perpetualy rehashed in comp.os.vmsA are not, by themselves, the single problem to solve to get there.-    >> We have, in no special order:  < This was a list of the things I've seen groups advocating in< comp.os.vms as the downfall of Digital/DEC/Compaq & soon HP.@ I wasn't saying I personally believe ANY of them or some or even< which ones. But I apprecaite your feedback on each one. And * killing off the validity of a few of them     > >> [6] - No affordable VMS systems for the masses = decreasing >>     mindshare/market share  >>> >>       It's the cost stupid ! (The - "Give VMS away for free7 >>     and it will suddenly take over the world" crowd)i > A > Nope.  Give VMS away for free, and it would mostly benefit onlyo> > those people who already use it:  the rest of the world just9 > isn't interested (for reasons ranging from ignorance to ? > considering it 'strange' to distrust of its owner), and until A > something has been done to generate that interest cost is not ao > primary issue. a  ; Good point. But I don't think other suggetsed approaches toiB generate interest will work either (stick them in front of collegeB students ? That won't work unless there is something compelling to keep them there.)     ; >> [10]- It's all because of the ranting and raving over inc6 >> comp.os.vms. If everyone stops complaining VMS will >>     suddenly be born-again. > ? > Of course.  And the Tooth Fairy will preside at its delivery.i  1 I was kind of hoping to see a pig fly myself :-).-   Thanks.    -Andy- -- u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:47:26 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e  Subject: Re: New missive from HP' Message-ID: <3D65992B.AE915377@fsi.net>e   Andy wrote:m > D > since you're not buying it :-). (I'm not in the Gates/Microsoft is5 > evil camp myself so it's a hard sell for me anyway)/  H ...and y'know what? I wouldn't be either if M$ were more willing to play nice and get along.s  6 > >  Windows is already 'good enough' for a great manyA > > uses, and continues - slowly - to increase the uses for which  > > that is true:  > 8 > Maybe I don't want to accept the "good enough" axiom ?  @ Same here. It's amazing what people will tolerate in the name of "productivity".o  F I can't help wondering how productive we'd all be if we stopped tryingF to be more productive and just got down to business instead of playing$ with point-and-click toys all day...   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:03:35 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: New missive from HPA Message-ID: <XJg99.139917$SS.6151204@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D65992B.AE915377@fsi.net...c
 > Andy wrote:i   ...l  8 > > >  Windows is already 'good enough' for a great manyC > > > uses, and continues - slowly - to increase the uses for which  > > > that is true:  > >p: > > Maybe I don't want to accept the "good enough" axiom ? >n > Same here.  H Indeed.  But that doesn't matter, as long as the vast majority of peopleL don't agree with you/us on that point.  And it's really not just a matter ofI educating them:  it's a matter of where one's priorities lie, and their'su@ are quite likely already pretty much where they want them to be.  E Now, give them a *better* Windows rather than something significantlyuL different, and you might be able to get their attention.  Same with a betterF Unix.  And with real backing from its owner, both are things VMS (or aH derivative) could provide without compromising its internal reliability.  D Unfortunately, VMS's owner has very clearly indicated its increasing< commitment (and likely a real one, not just the word) to the8 'industry-standard' camp.  So I'm not holding my breath.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:23:11 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>2  Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D65AA9F.7EB4BED7@videotron.ca>   Andy wrote:m= > Good point. But I don't think other suggetsed approaches to2D > generate interest will work either (stick them in front of collegeD > students ? That won't work unless there is something compelling to > keep them there.)l    L actually, VMS has plenty of stuff academics would want to gain experience onH TODAY so that they have valuable skills to either help unix catch up, orL market to employers. Clustering, dlm,  host based volume shadowing, disaster tolerance capabilities etc,v  N I had suggested to Compaq's VMS big whigs that they get local office to supplyF VMS ambassadors (or equivalent) to local universities to provide guestL lectures on topics where VMS has a clear advantage over anything else, henceL the VMS lecturer would be giving the students (and teachers) knowledge thetyF would not gain on their own university's unix or windows systems. BothN students and professors would then see value in having VMS systems in-house soI that they could play with clustering and all the other fancy stuff VMS isd capable of.   H This would have generated much mindshare and willingness to look at VMS.N Currently, VMS is not looked at because it is seen as an old system that isn'tN state of the art, so academics are not interested in setting up VMS systems in their university for students.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:40:08 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: New missive from HPJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2208022240080001@1cust47.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  I In article <LRX89.12656$bu81.10263@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,-$ "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    G >It's not just kissing off the income today, it's saying goodbye to the:C >on-going 'annuity' income from support contracts, system upgrades,MF >word-of-mouth referrals, and purchases made at the next company these >individuals go to work at.t  I Maybe I wasn't clear.  It's individual _people_ who have to deal with thewE rudeness.  After a successful encounter, the _company_ would make thenF extra money.  I just think people should keep that in mind before theyI "rant and rave".  Even if the company deserves the most extreme, rude andaA hateful diatribes we have seen in c.o.v, it's just nuts to expectmJ individual employees or executives to willingly interact with such people.  F We've seen many reports of Compaq/HP managers and executives answeringE customer complaints and concerns, when they were contacted in a civil J manner.  Many of them do listen.  Why do you think senior VMS people NEVERI post here?  Perhaps they just don't feel like putting up with the hissinga
 and spitting.c  K >Digital, Compaq, and now you are implying HP will willingly not attempt touJ >get to the bottom of a customer complaint and concern no matter how it is >expressed?   A Good Grief!  You've turned around what I wrote completely!  I waswH specifically addressing different ways of expressing complaints, and youH turned it into "no matter how it is expressed"!?!?!  Since we frequentlyI see reports here about complaints that HP _has_ addressed, your statement: astounds me.  D I don't expect a company to satisfy every customer problem they hearI about; that would be impossible.  And since real live people have to dealaI with the problems, I expect the rudest and most hysterical complainers toe be answered last, if at all.  D >Let's get real here - customers wouldn't be, as you claim, hissing,G >spitting, insulting, or hysterical, unless DEC/CPQ/HPQ gave them amplen >reason to be that way..  F I expect only a handful of customers express themselves like screamingH banshees.  And those same folks are probably surprised when nobody at HP wants to talk to them any more.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:32:23 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g  Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D65ACC6.50B408E2@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:iH > We've seen many reports of Compaq/HP managers and executives answeringG > customer complaints and concerns, when they were contacted in a civil 	 > manner.n  K Ahh, yes, the grunts at the lower levels try very hard to be responsive and , make VMS succeed, DESPITE higher managenent.  J The problem has been, for quite some time, higher management going againstK what the VMS grunts need/want to be done, and only when the complaining getyK loud enough to irritate higher management does higher manager do some token H action to quiet the complaints. The problem seems to go away, however itI doesn't and within a month or two, the corporation and its higher manageriQ returns to their true selves which as policies that are not positive towards VMS.f  E The complaining here only reflects the actions of upper management ofpK Digital/Compaq/HP/whatever, they are not targetted at the VMS grunts at theXF lower levels who do their darndest to reduce the damages done by upper8 management without putting their own jobs into jeoperdy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:15:10 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: New missive from HPB Message-ID: <2Nh99.133212$m91.5997918@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageeD news:rdeininger-2208022240080001@1cust47.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...   ...d  9 > Even if the company deserves the most extreme, rude andrC > hateful diatribes we have seen in c.o.v, it's just nuts to expecteL > individual employees or executives to willingly interact with such people.  J For lower-level employees just informally visiting c.o.v., that's probablyI true.  For executives, it's not only part of their job but - when they'refK the ones responsible for the actions that justifiably cause the ranting and:& raving - a richly-deserved obligation.  B But we already know that the people in charge feel little sense ofH obligation to anyone:  not to the customers to whom they've made solemn,F unequivocal, repeated, public 'commitments', not to the employees whomE they've encouraged to give 110%, not to the stockholders to whom theylC legally have fiduciary responsibilities.  So characterizing them as 8 incompetents and lying bastards is hardly inappropriate.   >eH > We've seen many reports of Compaq/HP managers and executives answeringG > customer complaints and concerns, when they were contacted in a civilhL > manner.  Many of them do listen.  Why do you think senior VMS people NEVER > post here?  F One hopes because they usually have better things to do, since there'sJ usually not much they can do here except answer technical questions:  theyJ have little real knowledge of where the company is going strategically (asJ evidenced by being blind-sided as much as the rest of us were on 6/25/01),K and are decidedly limited in what they can say about the more limited plansc they *do* know about.   L Of course, some misguidedly still take it upon themselves to take up arms inH defense of their employer.  It's really too bad that their loyalty is soI undeserved, but after a few decades working on VMS it's likely hard to bet objective about such things.  ?   Perhaps they just don't feel like putting up with the hissing  > and spitting.   > Which is unfortunate, but hardly a reason to mute it when it's6 unquestionably the justified and appropriate reaction.   >sJ > >Digital, Compaq, and now you are implying HP will willingly not attempt toL > >get to the bottom of a customer complaint and concern no matter how it is
 > >expressed?  > C > Good Grief!  You've turned around what I wrote completely!  I was J > specifically addressing different ways of expressing complaints, and youJ > turned it into "no matter how it is expressed"!?!?!  Since we frequentlyK > see reports here about complaints that HP _has_ addressed, your statementt > astounds me.  L I suspect that may be because you misunderstood it:  I think John meant thatK HP *should* (indeed, should feel obligated to) attempt to get to the bottomb7 of a customer complaint *no matter how* it's expressed.    > F > I don't expect a company to satisfy every customer problem they hearK > about; that would be impossible.  And since real live people have to dealoK > with the problems, I expect the rudest and most hysterical complainers to  > be answered last, if at all.  G I agree that this would be what to expect of those incompetent at theiraA jobs, since such people put convenience ahead of their vocationaloI obligations.  Competent, dedicated people attempt to handle the importantp7 issues first, regardless of how convenient they may be.w   >lF > >Let's get real here - customers wouldn't be, as you claim, hissing,I > >spitting, insulting, or hysterical, unless DEC/CPQ/HPQ gave them ample  > >reason to be that way.t >gH > I expect only a handful of customers express themselves like screamingJ > banshees.  And those same folks are probably surprised when nobody at HP! > wants to talk to them any more.   K Why should they be?  Nobody with any real authority has *ever* particularlyaL wanted to talk with them in any substantive manner, no matter how civil theyK were (and most started out entirely civilly).  That's why they're so pissedn off now.  I You seem to want to look at the current situation in a vacuum, and try towF evaluate its immediate symptoms without any allowance for its origins.F That's either naive or disingenuous.  There's no doubt whatsoever thatH cHumPaq made this bed entirely on its own and now has no valid reason toK complain about lying in it:  they do still have some opportunity to make ittI up differently, but until such time as that occurs they fully deserve allo' the criticism anyone may care to offer.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:24:42 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D65B905.6F8A278B@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:D > But we already know that the people in charge feel little sense ofJ > obligation to anyone:  not to the customers to whom they've made solemn,/ > unequivocal, repeated, public 'commitments', f  @ Remember that wintel-centric companies do not have the corporateM culture/attitudes of "customer". They just assemble other people's componentsm* into boxes and bulk ship to the "channel".    M When Compaq purchased Digital, it was confirmed to me that Compaq was baffledmM by Digital's customer databases because Compaq had no clue on such systems. I1M have to wonder if HP is similarly "wintel" centric with little priority givenoJ to customer relationship because the top management thinks only about bulk shipments of wintel boxes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:54:19 GMTa( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>' Subject: Re: Oracle (and OT: Hong Kong):+ Message-ID: <3D652607.CF150E98@pacbell.net>F  $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote: <snip> > 8 > PS- I'm going to visit Hong Kong next Chinese New Year9 >     and want to learn a few spoken phrases (where's the 1 >     closest loo?) and perhaps read a few signs.u > ; >     Web research is not clear- it indicates that althougha9 >     Cantonese was the preferred dialect, but that since 8 >     the handover, the PRC govt has strongly pushed for; >     Mandarin.  (And I know that lots of English is spokent >     there....) > : >     Any advice?   (I took three years of Russian in high7 >     school so I'm not afraid of non-Roman alphabets.)' > P I was there for 3+ weeks on a DEC contract 6 years ago (before the takeover) andP knew no Cantonese or Mandarin, but had no problems with English. The only phraseM I learned from a friend was "excuse me" which sounds like "me-going". All the G cab drivers know enough English to get me to where I needed. The subway P announcements were all repeated in English. Although I haven't been there since,P I doubt much has changed. Hong Kong is the economic engine for all China and theK Communists have probably been changed more by Hong Kong, than the other wayl around.sM In any case I found it a great experience. It's a fascinating city. Have fun!s   -- o   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)e
 San Franciscoa   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:07:55 -0400a( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE, Message-ID: <3D65287B.6030901@tsoft-inc.com>  M Backporting is, in many cases, the height of stupidity.  There's no way that aI sufficient resources would be used to insure 100% that it wouldn't cause s1 something that has been solid for years to break.>   Dave     Larry Kilgallen wrote:  M > In article <3D647068.614FE748@hp.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes:o > @ >>To support the change in the DCL image, we had to increase the) >>supervisor stack as well as modify RMS.  >>. >>So the answer is absolutely no back porting. >> > ? > Thank you very much.  The last thing third parties need is totB > have trouble reports for their software on some copies of V5.5-2 > but not others.  >  >  >>"David J. Dachtera" wrote: >> >> >>>Guy Peleg wrote:u >>>e! >>>>Without any commitment !!!!!!  >>>> >>>>Rough estimate is V7.3-2 >>>>0 >>>Back ported to ... ? (V5.5-2? Pretty-please?) >>>t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:02:27 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e2 Subject: Re: Problem with DCL procedure using PIPE' Message-ID: <3D658091.F8BDEFEF@fsi.net>    David Froble wrote:e > 9 > Backporting is, in many cases, the height of stupidity.e  C In other cases, it can be the "golden spike" that saves another VMS  system from the scrap heap.7   -- : David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:35:12 GMTf% From: "Yong Liu" <fdu9774@rogers.com> + Subject: Problem with JDK1.3 on OpenVMS 7.3 H Message-ID: <4rf99.20429$bu81.7649@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Hi,W  I I got a problem when I was trying to run Java on my Alpha server. This isl what happened: (1) @java$1.3_setup + (2) define class$path 'My java lib path',[]t (3) javac Test.javae out of memery. exite  $ What's happening? How do you fix it?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:28:50 GMTu+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> / Subject: Re: Problem with JDK1.3 on OpenVMS 7.3t+ Message-ID: <3D65A0B9.E4A40ED1@ins-msi.com>    Yong Liu wrote:i >  > Hi,r > K > I got a problem when I was trying to run Java on my Alpha server. This ise > what happened: > (1) @java$1.3_setup - > (2) define class$path 'My java lib path',[]2 > (3) javac Test.javai > out of memery. exitl > & > What's happening? How do you fix it?  & Buy and install more memory?  8-)  8-)  C Without knowing your system/account parameters, you most likely arepC running out of page file quota. You (if you have privilege) or yournF system manager can modify your account to increase this quota by using SYS$SYSTEM:AUTHORIZE:    UAF> help modify /pgflquotae   MODIFY     /PGFLQUOTA           /PGFLQUOTA=value  C      Specifies the paging file limit. This is the maximum number of.A      pages that the person's process can use in the system pagingoB      file. By default, the value is 32768 pages on VAX systems and%      50000 pagelets on Alpha systems.'  D      If decompressing libraries, make sure to set PGFLQUOTA to twice      the size of the library.     
 Jeff Campbell  n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:30:38 GMTu! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nzo* Subject: Re: Products incl in NAS package.& Message-ID: <3d65819e.2075633342@news>  , On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:10:08 +0200, Jan-Erik1 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:l   >Thanks John ! >r >(It's an Alpha Server 1200.)i > D >And I'v actualy found the SPD on "http://www.compaq.com/info/SPD/". >t; >It's a bit confusing, some products (well, just PATHWORKS)-7 >are, in some way, included in the "package", but needs3  >separate licenses to by used !?2 >Why "include" PW in the NAS package at all then ? >   3 Not all aspects of Pathworks require extra lcenses.yD If you just wanted to use Pathworks for External Authentication then' you don't need any additional licenses.(  E However, if you're going to start mapping PC Users to VMS Drives then  you'll need the licenses.   8 >And the SPD don't mention "Adv Serv", only "PATHWORKS". >d: >And there is no guarantee that any later versions of each8 >product then those menthioned in the SPD will work with >the NAS licens at all.n >d >Jan-Erik Sderholm.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:12:52 -0700m> From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My-Full-Name@intel-com.spam-ban>* Subject: Re: Products incl in NAS package.2 Message-ID: <3D65A834.DAF9BB6E@intel-com.spam-ban>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t  4 > I'v a system with a NET-APP-SUP-200 licens loaded. >e: > What is the easiest way today (apart from looking in the= > non-existent original docs) to find out what products couldo > be run under this licens ?  8     Look at SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL_LMFGROUPS.COM (at least: on an Alpha).  This is essentially a "table" that, for any> given "group" license, like your NAS200, which covers a number: of products, gives the "equivalent" list of single-product< license names.  I'd cut'n'paste the list for NAS200, but the9 are four lines that are all wider than 80 characters (let 7 alone 72) and the wrapping makes them mostly illegible.-7 (It doesn't help that there are 10 language varients ofg DW-MOTIF... :-)        -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield8! D1C Automation VMS System Supporte kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:50:52 -0400c( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>I Subject: Re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, butf, Message-ID: <3D65B11C.9030600@tsoft-inc.com>   John.Malmberg wrote:  * > j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 wrote: > 7 >> In article <3D651A20.6010409@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>,i; >> "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> writes:a, >> ~j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 wrote: >> ~ >A >> ~ > While we've got the v6.2-008 compiler on OpenVMS v7.2-1h1,h# >> ~ > and v5.9-011 on Tru64 v4f(?)p >> ~C >> ~Any C RTL ECOs installed could also be very significant in this 
 >>  ~area. >>B >> No idea what may have been installed.  Finding that out, unlessB >> there's some procedure that I can invoke to list them, is about >  >  > Try: > F > $DIRECTORY SYS$HELP:*.RELEASE* !for a list of all release notes thatB > have been installed on your system.  Note that it is possible toD > install the release notes with out actually installing the rest of
 > the kit.    Q And, conversely, the kit could be installed, and the release notes deleted.  (Us i7 real oldtimers were really jealous of disk space.)  :-)m     <snip>    K >> ~I would recommend creating a separate module named dcl_putenv that doestI >> ~the LIB$SET_SYMBOL instead, and takes the same arguments as putenv().r    I Ha!  Now we get to the tricky stuff.  If you write a routine, which uses  P LIB$SET_SYMBOL, and call it PUTENV, and link it in prior to the C RTL, then you J don't need any code changes.  Got to make sure the linker adds the proper L linkage so things don't get confused.  Definitely shady, and something that ; would cause some to reach for a rope when they see it.  :-)t    G >> ~Then for the OpenVMS build of the modules that call putenv() add a gI >> ~/DEFINE=("putenv=dcl_putenv") to the CC line.  Then the OpenVMS builds >> ~will have a extra module.E     <snip>     > It is documented on OpenVMS: > G > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p041.html#index_x_1218g > 6 >     "The putenv function uses the malloc function to >      enlarge the environment.t > 2 >      A potential error is to call putenv with an4 >      automatic variable as the argument, then exit5 >     the calling function while string is still partf >     of the environment." > B > So putenv just stashes a pointer to the string passed in program > locally allocated memory.  > A > It probably might be desirable to have putenv()/setenv() update ; > the local symbol table, I can pass that suggestion along.s    ) Whoa!  What idiot came up with this idea?s  M "Let's see, Unix has PUTENV(), so we got to have it, so we'll just emulate a o local variable."    e Once again I know why I dislike C.  But this goes far beyond most of the garbage normally found in C.e     Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 2002 18:18:39 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)yY Subject: re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acce, Message-ID: <ak39tv$19i2@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>  m In article <3D651A20.6010409@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>, "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> writes:i) ~j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 wrote:t ~ > > ~ > While we've got the v6.2-008 compiler on OpenVMS v7.2-1h1,  ~ > and v5.9-011 on Tru64 v4f(?) ~eF ~Any C RTL ECOs installed could also be very significant in this area.  @ 	No idea what may have been installed.  Finding that out, unless@ 	there's some procedure that I can invoke to list them, is about@ 	as likely as my being able to get the current online/local docs9 	from the release media, cited in my earlier response ;-Pe ~gJ ~> In article <craigberry-5B416C.09012122082002@news.directvinternet.com>,= ~>  "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> writes:n@ ~> <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/index_alpha.html> ~>    Q ~>         Anyhow, not only do I not find in these documents, but I also not find J ~>         in some hardcopy docs (dated 1998 and refer to DECC v6.0 that aO ~>         coworker dusted off for me) anything more to suggest what SHOULD andrO ~>         SHOULD NOT be expected to work when using putenv().  Or setenv() forcL ~>         that matter [found THAT one once I perused that hardcopy docset]. ~tJ ~On OpenVMS, after a spawn, vfork(), system() or other event that creates  ~a childI ~process, the parent process will not see any changes in the environment h
 ~variables ~made by a child process.h  A 	I know that -- unless one TELLS the LIB$SPAWN routine to include.C 	the symbol table -- but since putenv() on Tru64 is BEING USED HERElC 	to affect the parent environment of the program that calls it, I'mrC 	assuming the intended affect of putenv() is to affect the outside/tA 	parent environment, which would be create a LOCAL symbol for VMS B 	by default, and that would work, or a GLOBAL (which would also be& 	known to a subsequent child process). ~dG ~Also a child process will not see changes in the enviroment variables a7 ~made by the parent after the child processes creation.h  A 	And of course since I'm not involved in spawning out from withina? 	the program, said passing of environment variables/symbols to i@ 	children/subprocesses will be handled, if need be, by DCL after 	my program runs.c  E ~Be sure to read the release notes for the compiler and for any ECOs   ~installed.e  < 	Ah, but those are again on that elusive media the "support"3 	person for OS's here is "unsupportive" with... ;-Pi  M ~>         While getenv() for OpenVMS seems to clearly be able to access bothlQ ~>         DCL-presented SYMBOLS (LOCAL and GLOBAL) and LOGICAL NAMES in the samedP ~>         way that getenv() for Unix accesses Shell-based ENVIRONMENT VARIABLESN ~>         and make their values accessible to a running program, and putenv()M ~>         for Unix [Tru64] clearly is able to allow a running program to putrQ ~>         a variable out for later use in the same shell script that invoked themN ~>         program, I can't seem to find any of the environment variables thatP ~>         my OpenVMS-based putenv() calls are creating after the program exits. ~tM ~It appears that the environment array that setenv() and putenv() modifies ist% ~local to the application in OpenVMS.b ~eK ~I do not know why it does not update the DCL symbol table, but it might beoK ~that it is ambigous as to which symbol or logical table should be updated.   C 	Could be.  Such ambiguity could be resolved by one sentence in thea@ 	documentation, however.  I would think that LOCAL symbols wouldC 	coincide with the Unix implementations' impact, and so is the morem2 	likely choice the RTL engineers should have made.  I ~After all, getenv() does not tell you where it got the symbol from so ifeK ~putenv() updated the global symbols, and there was already a local symbol, ! ~the update would not be visible.i  @ 	Right.  Because for the programmer trying to implement the sameE 	code in OpenVMS (where it's relevant OUTSIDE the program in the CLI)sE 	and Unix (where it's relevant but far less choice exists OUTSIDE thet- 	program in the shell), it should not matter.P  B ~And updates to local symbols do not survive the exit from command ~procedures.  B 	But they DO survive exit from EXE's invoked by those DCL streams,8 	for use in subsequent job steps in the same DCL stream.   ~ M ~>         Even these docs sited by Craig here fail to address this question.eP ~>         IS IT EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK?  Or should I rewrite that chunk of code, ~>         to have:( ~ D ~You could put #ifdef __VMS conditionals in your code as you stated. ~oH ~I would recommend creating a separate module named dcl_putenv that doesF ~the LIB$SET_SYMBOL instead, and takes the same arguments as putenv(). ~nD ~Then for the OpenVMS build of the modules that call putenv() add a F ~/DEFINE=("putenv=dcl_putenv") to the CC line.  Then the OpenVMS build ~will have a extra module. ~ G ~I can not find putenv() in "The Open Group" Single UNIX specification, H ~but it is documented in the current Compaq C Run-time Library manual in ~the URL you previously quoted.   ? 	Yeah, but you've probably noted that it says nothing about how C 	one could then retrieve such an environment variable after puttingND 	it.  And presumably one would use putenv() to affect an environment> 	shared by other programs, not as an alternative to a variableA 	shared by other routines in the same program.  So where the heck  	does putenv() stash it?  B 	Before giving up and going the OpenVMS/Tru64 specific routes withA 	#ifdef/#else/#endif, I'm going to try to see if setenv() has anyeC 	better impact. It certainly doesn't have any better DOCUMENTATION.b  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's closeyC | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close:: | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]s3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> aJ <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAILc 	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:56:49 -0000n2 From: seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel)Y Subject: Re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe acc ; Message-ID: <slrnambcjo.cu9.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>w  2 On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:00:22 -0400, John.Malmberg ' <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> wrote:t [snip] >> ~D >> ~On OpenVMS, after a spawn, vfork(), system() or other event thatH >> ~creates a child process, the parent process will not see any changes9 >> ~in the environment variables made by a child process.e >> lG This is also the norm on most UNIX systems.  Tru64 may be the exceptionhF I also saw that comment in the man page, but I have not actually tried it on Tru64.   [snip] >It is documented on OpenVMS:a >hF >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p041.html#index_x_1218 >a6 >     "The putenv function uses the malloc function to >      enlarge the environment.e >a2 >      A potential error is to call putenv with an4 >      automatic variable as the argument, then exit5 >     the calling function while string is still part  >     of the environment." >DA >So putenv just stashes a pointer to the string passed in program, >locally allocated memory. >e" This is also true on UNIX systems.  @ >It probably might be desirable to have putenv()/setenv() update: >the local symbol table, I can pass that suggestion along. >g> >A search of the comp.lang.c frequently asked questions turned	 >up this:e >p >16.6: t@ >How can a process change an environment variable in its caller? >e >A: > >In general, it cannot.  Different operating systems implement= >	name/value functionality similar to the UNIX environment in < >	different ways.  Whether the "environment" can be usefully: >	altered by a running program, and if so, how, is system- >	dependent. >>< >	Under UNIX, a process can modify its own environment (someA >	systems provide setenv() and/or putenv() functions to do this),7@ >	and the modified environment is usually passed on to any child: >	processes, but it is _not_ propagated back to the parent
 >	process. > > >As I understand UNIX, the shell executes a program as a child= >process and waits for it to end, unless the "&" character is8' >used to make it run in the background.  >  This is correct.  > >This FAQ entry indicates that a value set with putenv() under< >UNIX also may not be visible to the shell after the program >exits.e >73 Also correct, with the possible exception of Tru64./  B >But I do not have direct experience with doing this type of thing >under UNIX. >/D >> Before giving up and going the OpenVMS/Tru64 specific routes withC >> #ifdef/#else/#endif, I'm going to try to see if setenv() has anywE >> better impact. It certainly doesn't have any better DOCUMENTATION.l >.H This may be necessary, if indeed, Tru64 is different than OpenVMS, since2 other UNIX systems operate as you see for OpenVMS.  @ >I would expect that setenv() and putenv() to use the same local >memory and behave the same. >mG putenv() is the preferred function.  IIRC, setenv sets the entire list -J of environment variables, the environment, whereas, putenv sets individual  variables within an environment.  @ >The documentation for putenv() in the Compaq C Run time library7 >contains the same information as in the "Official UNIXo> >Specification" maintained by the Open Group, and a little bit! >more for site specific behavior.v >.6 >You can read the official specification your self at: > = >http://www.opengroup.org/  Allows online browsing after freee >registration. >x >?: >So it appears that the OpenVMS implementation putenv() is: >compliant with the official standard, even if it does not >do what you want it to do.o >iF As you probably noticed, the specifications are not very clear in thisE area, but, as I mentioned before, most UNIX systems do not modify theiG parent environment, they only allow the process's local environment and % the child environment to be affected.s   HTH  Rich  C >I can certainly understand that if putenv() works the way that youm? >would like to under UNIX, that under OpenVMS the same behaviors; >would be desired.  Again, I can pass the suggestion along.  >o >-John" >malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp >Personal Opinion Only >      -- bD --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 220D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:00:22 -0400D6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>Y Subject: Re: putenv()/setenv() was - Re: DECC (specifically v6.2-008, but older maybe accg2 Message-ID: <3D6542D6.50007@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>  ( j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 wrote:6 > In article <3D651A20.6010409@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>,: > "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> writes:+ > ~j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 wrote:o > ~ >e@ > ~ > While we've got the v6.2-008 compiler on OpenVMS v7.2-1h1," > ~ > and v5.9-011 on Tru64 v4f(?) > ~ B > ~Any C RTL ECOs installed could also be very significant in this	 >  ~area.  > A > No idea what may have been installed.  Finding that out, unlessiA > there's some procedure that I can invoke to list them, is aboutE   Try:  D $DIRECTORY SYS$HELP:*.RELEASE* !for a list of all release notes that@ have been installed on your system.  Note that it is possible toB install the release notes with out actually installing the rest of the kit.   > ~iC > ~On OpenVMS, after a spawn, vfork(), system() or other event thattG > ~creates a child process, the parent process will not see any changesa8 > ~in the environment variables made by a child process. > B > I know that -- unless one TELLS the LIB$SPAWN routine to include > the symbol table  A No, what I mean is after the child is born, the enviroment tablesaA are forever separate.  On UNIX there may be some sharing.  If youc7 have not been able to tell, I am not a UNIX programmer.o  B This type of sharing needs to use the LNM$JOB table, which is only  readable to getenv() on OpenVMS.  3 > -- but since putenv() on Tru64 is BEING USED HEREr@ > to affect the parent environment of the program that calls it,? > I'm assuming the intended affect of putenv() is to affect the C > outside/ parent environment, which would be create a LOCAL symbol8C > for VMS by default, and that would work, or a GLOBAL (which would / > also be known to a subsequent child process).   A Both local and global DCL symbols existing at birth are copied tou the child process.  H > ~>  While getenv() for OpenVMS seems to clearly be able to access bothL > ~>  DCL-presented SYMBOLS (LOCAL and GLOBAL) and LOGICAL NAMES in the sameK > ~>  way that getenv() for Unix accesses Shell-based ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES I > ~>  and make their values accessible to a running program, and putenv()iH > ~>  for Unix [Tru64] clearly is able to allow a running program to putL > ~>  a variable out for later use in the same shell script that invoked theI > ~>  program, I can't seem to find any of the environment variables thataK > ~>  my OpenVMS-based putenv() calls are creating after the program exits.  > ~eC > ~It appears that the environment array that setenv() and putenv() 3 > ~modifies is local to the application in OpenVMS.i > ~ I > ~>  -Even these docs sited by Craig here fail to address this question. L > ~>   IS IT EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK?  Or should I rewrite that chunk of code, > ~>   to have:. > ~ F > ~You could put #ifdef __VMS conditionals in your code as you stated. > ~(J > ~I would recommend creating a separate module named dcl_putenv that doesH > ~the LIB$SET_SYMBOL instead, and takes the same arguments as putenv(). > ~tF > ~Then for the OpenVMS build of the modules that call putenv() add a H > ~/DEFINE=("putenv=dcl_putenv") to the CC line.  Then the OpenVMS build > ~will have a extra module. > ~lI > ~I can not find putenv() in "The Open Group" Single UNIX specification,dJ > ~but it is documented in the current Compaq C Run-time Library manual in! > ~the URL you previously quoted.d  D Correction, I made a transposition error.  putenv() is documented in= "The Open Group" Single UNIX specification.  setenv() is not.   , setenv() appears to be easier to use though.  @ > Yeah, but you've probably noted that it says nothing about howD > one could then retrieve such an environment variable after puttingE > it.  And presumably one would use putenv() to affect an environment1? > shared by other programs, not as an alternative to a variable B > shared by other routines in the same program.  So where the heck > does putenv() stash it?a   It is documented on OpenVMS:  E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p041.html#index_x_1218   5      "The putenv function uses the malloc function toi       enlarge the environment.  1       A potential error is to call putenv with an 3       automatic variable as the argument, then exit 4      the calling function while string is still part      of the environment."o  @ So putenv just stashes a pointer to the string passed in program locally allocated memory.t  ? It probably might be desirable to have putenv()/setenv() update 9 the local symbol table, I can pass that suggestion along.o  = A search of the comp.lang.c frequently asked questions turned2 up this:   16.6: ? How can a process change an environment variable in its caller?y   A: c= In general, it cannot.  Different operating systems implement < 	name/value functionality similar to the UNIX environment in; 	different ways.  Whether the "environment" can be usefully"9 	altered by a running program, and if so, how, is system-j 	dependent.s  ; 	Under UNIX, a process can modify its own environment (some0@ 	systems provide setenv() and/or putenv() functions to do this),? 	and the modified environment is usually passed on to any child 9 	processes, but it is _not_ propagated back to the parentn	 	process.   = As I understand UNIX, the shell executes a program as a childs< process and waits for it to end, unless the "&" character is& used to make it run in the background.  = This FAQ entry indicates that a value set with putenv() under1; UNIX also may not be visible to the shell after the programe exits.  A But I do not have direct experience with doing this type of thing. under UNIX.l  C > Before giving up and going the OpenVMS/Tru64 specific routes with B > #ifdef/#else/#endif, I'm going to try to see if setenv() has anyD > better impact. It certainly doesn't have any better DOCUMENTATION.  ? I would expect that setenv() and putenv() to use the same local  memory and behave the same.o  ? The documentation for putenv() in the Compaq C Run time libraryr6 contains the same information as in the "Official UNIX= Specification" maintained by the Open Group, and a little bitt  more for site specific behavior.  5 You can read the official specification your self at:r  < http://www.opengroup.org/  Allows online browsing after free
 registration.T    9 So it appears that the OpenVMS implementation putenv() ist9 compliant with the official standard, even if it does note do what you want it to do.  B I can certainly understand that if putenv() works the way that you> would like to under UNIX, that under OpenVMS the same behavior: would be desired.  Again, I can pass the suggestion along.   -Johna! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hpn Personal Opinion Onlyp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:56:28 +0200v- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> / Subject: Re: Reading VAX VMS backup tapes on PCn& Message-ID: <3D6533DC.E14B0D1@Free.fr>  . http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm   dutchman2000 wrote:d > L > Can anyone tell me how to read VAX VMS backup tapes using a PC running DOSE > or Windows?  I have an M4 9914 tape drive connected to a SCSI card.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:19:19 GMTr From: danco@ns2.pebble.org@ Subject: Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD1 Message-ID: <slrnamatqn.31b.danco@ns2.pebble.org>   @ In article <3D64C002.6070508@microsoft.com>, Ford Prefect wrote:  ! > I used VMS V8.0 years ago, ....)  < Ford, please tell me how to build a time machine like yours!< I'd like to be able to travel to the future and back myself.< Please hurry as a big California lotto jackpot is comming up on Saturday.  < What you need is someone with OpenVMS (V7.3 or so) to create9 this boot disk image for you.  Better yet, get an OpenVMS + hobbyist license and "do it yourself."  :-)    - Dan    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:50:34 GMTt' From: Ford Prefect <spam@microsoft.com>a@ Subject: Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD* Message-ID: <3D65B106.40803@microsoft.com>   danco@ns2.pebble.org wrote:lB > In article <3D64C002.6070508@microsoft.com>, Ford Prefect wrote: >  > ! >>I used VMS V8.0 years ago, ....d >  > > > Ford, please tell me how to build a time machine like yours!> > I'd like to be able to travel to the future and back myself.> > Please hurry as a big California lotto jackpot is comming up > on Saturday. > > > What you need is someone with OpenVMS (V7.3 or so) to create; > this boot disk image for you.  Better yet, get an OpenVMSe- > hobbyist license and "do it yourself."  :-)o >  > - Dan   = Yes of course. You need the planet Zanussi which is fifth outo< from the trinary star system in the fourth galactic arm just= left of the globular cluster "whiskey". They have a nice linee> in quantum dovetail machines - the model I used was an upsilon1 deltastream inverter (model 9 if you can get it).t   ;)  C Ok, ok. So, how *does* one get a hobbyist licence? One would dearlytD love to "do it oneself" but one hopes that the spirit of cameraderie> out there in VMSLand might induce someone to give out a URL if& possible, or something of the kind....   :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:38:54 +0100u4 From: John Cowell <jpcowell@getrid.blueyonder.co.uk>% Subject: set file/data_check (REPOST)t8 Message-ID: <stiamuc4nnon03djj4iupg0ekfiqlrjbpo@4ax.com>   Folks,  N I'd be interested in your thoughts on using a 'no read check after a write' on& files for updates, copies etc., e.g.:-  # SET FILE/DATA_CHECK=NOWRITE xyz.datl   ---  R'gdst John. p.s. This is a retry as no reponses last time!   Help says:-e SETV   FILE     /DATA_CHECKt)        /DATA_CHECK[=([NO]READ,[NO]WRITE)]   E        Specifies whether a read data check (rereading each record), aeG        write data check (reading each record after it is written), or atH        combination of the two is performed on the file during transfers.3        By default, a write data check is performed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:16:49 -0400v; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> ) Subject: RE: set file/data_check (REPOST)eK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA22@rlghncst964.usps.gov>g  , I've never used it, nor have I seen it used,0 so it would be absurd for me to give you advice.  0 I suspect that most here are similarly situated.   Sorry,   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----= From: "John Cowell" [mailto:jpcowell@getrid.blueyonder.co.uk]g' Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 4:38 PM	 To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" % Subject: set file/data_check (REPOST)e     Folks,  K I'd be interested in your thoughts on using a 'no read check after a write'  on& files for updates, copies etc., e.g.:-  # SET FILE/DATA_CHECK=NOWRITE xyz.dats   ---h R'gdsm John. p.s. This is a retry as no reponses last time!   Help says:-k SET    FILE     /DATA_CHECKs)        /DATA_CHECK[=([NO]READ,[NO]WRITE)]t  E        Specifies whether a read data check (rereading each record), adG        write data check (reading each record after it is written), or alH        combination of the two is performed on the file during transfers.3        By default, a write data check is performed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:12:25 +1000 * From: James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com>) Subject: Re: set file/data_check (REPOST)-9 Message-ID: <pan.2002.08.23.12.12.18.545403.24834@hp.com>   6 On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:38:54 +1000, John Cowell wrote:F > I'd be interested in your thoughts on using a 'no read check after a2 > write' on files for updates, copies etc., e.g.:-% > SET FILE/DATA_CHECK=NOWRITE xyz.dat   I That command turns off "Verify write operations" in the file header.  UseiH DIRECTORY /FULL to see the result.  Most of the time, files already haveG this flag turned off.  Turning it off again should achieve little.  Youa$ should perform tests to verify this.   > SETa >   FILE >     /DATA_CHECKi+ >        /DATA_CHECK[=([NO]READ,[NO]WRITE)]m > G >        Specifies whether a read data check (rereading each record), a I >        write data check (reading each record after it is written), or a J >        combination of the two is performed on the file during transfers.5 >        By default, a write data check is performed.   F That is, the default if you perform a SET FILE /DATA_CHECK without anyH values against the qualifier, is as if you had typed /DATA_CHECK=(WRITE)   --
 James Cameronn   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 18:57:11 -07003 From: antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au (Antony Wardle)g Subject: Re: tcpware smtpm< Message-ID: <fe52053.0208221757.5f640498@posting.google.com>   Ok  6 this is what I get and it doesn't look like any errors6 plus this mail message is left in the spool directory.   cheers   antony       Fri Aug 23 11:01:25 2002P Processing queue file _DSA0:[SYS0.TCPWARE.SPOOL]SMTP-VMSMAIL.00A12E1C-E2E9CF68;1 MAIL FROM:<taysong> , RCPT TO:<61414370452@strbt1.vodafone.com.au>" ARRIVAL_TIME: 23-AUG-2002 11:01:25>   going to alias lookup on: 61414370452@strbt1.vodafone.com.au0 After alias expansion and duplicate elimination:6 RCPT TO:<61414370452@strbt1.vodafone.com.au> (PENDING). Doing MR lookup on INI|strbt1.vodafone.com.au. Locating gateway.v. Attempting net send to strbt1.vodafone.com.au.' SMTP: FORWARDER not appended to MX list $ SMTP: trying: strbt1.vodafone.com.au4 SMTP: attempting connection to [10.24.3.18], port 25P R: 220 strbt1.vodafone.com.au TCP/IP V4.2 ECO 4, OpenVMS V7.1 AXP ready at Frida y, 2002-08-23 11:01:25.55 +1100s S: Helo ntn2.vodafone.com.auF R: 250 strbt1.vodafone.com.au Helo [192.168.1.32], pleased to meet you+ S: MAIL FROM:<taysong@ntn2.vodafone.com.au> 2 R: 250 <taysong@ntn2.vodafone.com.au>... Sender OK/ S: RCPT TO:<61414370452@strbt1.vodafone.com.au>e= R: 250 <<61414370452@strbt1.vodafone.com.au>>... Recipient OK/ S: DATAI/ R: 354 Start mail input; end with <CRLF>.<CRLF>p S: .	 R: 250 OKr S: QUIT/	 R: 250 OK 6 RCPT TO:<61414370452@strbt1.vodafone.com.au> (NOERROR)" Mail processing completed normally NTN2$y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:09:36 -0400n  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>, Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.25 Message-ID: <1020822180718.5213C-100000@Ives.egh.com>o  ( On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, John Forkosh wrote:  ' > Franklin <joshua@www.iocc.com> wrote: P > : OK. there's an OpenVMS 7.2 machine set up running a library card catalog for@ > : a couple of universities. The interface is all telnet-based.O > : It appears to work relatively well from Windows (HyperTerm, cmd.exe telnet,mL > : TeraTerm, etc.) with the exception of sending a form-feed to the default
 > : printer. t > :fK > : However, I'm having a problem with a telnet from linux hosts, I believe L > : because the interface sends a ^O control character. Has anyone run into K > : this kind of problem before? I'm not the admin of the machine, but if IrN > : could get some clear steps I could forward them to the appropriate person.O > : Alternatively, if anyone knows of some workarounds on the linux end I couldy  > : put together an FAQ for it.  > B > Robert Deininger was on the right track.  I had the same kind ofB > problem a while back, and someone on this ng explained it to me.> >      There's a bug in the current tcp/ip implementation that? > thrashes the machine if you telnet to it with a terminal typen > it doesn't recognize.t  < No, not in the "current tcp/ip implementation".  The bug wasC in an older version (V5.1?) and was fixed years ago by a patch kit.c  = Either upgrade to the current version (V5.3) or make sure thed) latest ECO for your version is installed.   B >      Try an  echo $TERM  from your Linux box and you'll probably@ > see  linux  which is unknown to vms.  Before telnetting to theB > vms box,  just issue  TERM=vt100  (make sure vt100 is lowercase,C > upper won't work for some reason I don't know), or issue whatevert8 > is appropriate if your shell isn't bash.  Then telnet. > Works like a charm!!!  > -- -@ > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   --   John Santosg Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Aug 02 04:40:10 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)zI Subject: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?D) Message-ID: <Nfeqdd0ak7jh@elias.decus.ch>J  O I tried my first upgrade from V7.3 (no XFC) to v7.3-1 today. Not from CD but an L early copy we have been given. I don't know if this is the exact thing which will arrive on CD.  F This was on a 2 node cluster - 1 system acting as a server, with BA3506 attached, the second acting as a non-voting satellite.  I I upgraded the server node without problems (although remembering to do aeO mount/over=shadow on the recently broken shadowed system disk before commencingEH the upgrade - something which according to my notes caught me out on the 7.2-1H1 to 7.3 upgrade).  J However, on booting the satellite over the network, it could not mount the1 system disk, giving error %x728334 and a bugcheckf   That error is:   ----=  DEVSHAMEM,  device is already mounted as a shadow set member   $   Facility:     MOUNT, Mount Utility  I   Explanation:  The device you attempted to mount as a nonshadowed device K                 is already mounted elsewhere in the cluster as a shadow sett                 member.   N   User Action:  Mount the device as a member of a shadow set. You can use DSA:J                 to specify a generic virtual unit if you do not know which1                 virtual unit contains the device.    ----  F Solution: switch shadowing off on the server and reboot, then boot theG satellite to let it do its first startup (and implied autogen) with thes UPGRADE parameter.  L During this I doubly and trebly scoured the installation and upgrade manual,N but nowhere found any suggestion that system disk shadowing should be disabled during the upgrade process.   < One more item: In the post upgrade task list, one should runL @sys$startup:cdsa$initialze (CDSA = Common Data Security Architecture), onceN and only once. The manual does not mention whether this should be run once per cluster or once per node.C  I It appears from my one-off shot that it needs running on each node of thex6 cluster (and it takes quite a few minutes, I may add).  E Oh, in the context of the shadowing problem, I should mention that myoO MODPARAMS.DAT files have an AGEN$INCLUDE pointing to a file which addresses alleF non-node specific parameters, including the shadowing ones. The actual= MODPARAMS.DAT files have only node addressing and votes info.a   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland(   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 02:27:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion- Message-ID: <87lm6yeok9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  + "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com> writes:s  7 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote inwF > news:rdeininger-2108022238480001@1cust211.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net:   _D > > In a all-at-once port to alpha, you'll be changing the hardware,D > > the OS, and the compiler(s).  It won't work at first, and you'll+ > > have to worry about everything at once.t  E > > Updating the software on VAX might really be a bad idea, but it'sa& > > not obvious to me at first glance.  _E > I agree with you both on principle, really I do.  Changing multiplemF > stuff at once goes against normal engineering ideals.  But it is not@ > at all clear that it is worth buying several VAX's (especially@ > 8600's, complete with star coupler drive clusters), installingB > airconditioning and utility lines, having the purchased machinesF > shipped here and installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3* > will save us *that* much money and time.  F No, no. Best would be a couple of 4000-108s with DSSI and HSDs. Unless: you have some sort of evil HW hung off Unibus or the like.  B I have a pair of 4000s (a 4000-400 and a 4000-705A) that cost me a/ Sun 17" monitor. And I was given the monitor...t  E Then add a couple of Alphas. You will have to pay a bit more for themh
 I guess...   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.x@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:19:13 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion, Message-ID: <3D651D11.7050803@tsoft-inc.com>   James M. Knox wrote:  7 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote ineF > news:rdeininger-2108022238480001@1cust211.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net:  >  > F >>In a all-at-once port to alpha, you'll be changing the hardware, theF >>OS, and the compiler(s).  It won't work at first, and you'll have to! >>worry about everything at once.  >>G >>Updating the software on VAX might really be a bad idea, but it's noty  >>obvious to me at first glance. >> > E > I agree with you both on principle, really I do.  Changing multiplenI > stuff at once goes against normal engineering ideals.  But it is not atsE > all clear that it is worth buying several VAX's (especially 8600's,mH > complete with star coupler drive clusters), installing airconditioningC > and utility lines, having the purchased machines shipped here andnI > installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3 will save us *that*t > much money and time. r  H Why do you feel that the testing VAXs have to be 8600s?  To a very high ; percentage, 99.9999% or such, a VAX is a VAX is a VAX .....v  L You may have valid reasons, but I haven't seen them.  There are some rather E small and currently inexpensive VAXs that you could use to test your pK applications at VMS V5.3 I think you mentioned, and some other even better m? platforms that you could use for testing at VMS V6.2 and above.t  N You'll find out that since VMS V5.5-2, or maybe something close, that the VAX O code base hasn't gotten many of the new stuff put into Alpha.  This sucks, for  J VAX customers paying for software support.  This is great with respect to 0 problems.  VAX VMS is rather solid at this time.  Q I don't know what your storage requirements are, but if you're talking 8600s, it  Q can't be very much.  In the time you've talked about this, you could get a later  O model MicroVAX 3100, or VAXstation 4000, a few SCSI disks, and moved a copy of pN your application to this test system, running VMS 7.2, or if you insist V7.3,  and be testing.   N Is there any reason why such wouldn't work?  You're talking minimal financial K requirements.  If you can't spend a thousand or so to get some preliminary dK answers, then I doubt you can migrate to Alphas, that will cost a bit more.k  R Heck, you've already gotten much more than $1000 in free cousulting in c.o.v.  :-)  2 As they say in the shoe commercials, "just do it!"   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 02:29:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion- Message-ID: <87hehmeoh9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com> writes:r  C > and utility lines, having the purchased machines shipped here andSB > installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3 will save us > *that* much money and time.s  F In fact, there are 3 4000s on e-bay now from messages on the VMS list.  ! Sorry about the second post... :(c   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:16:36 GMTa' From: nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () & Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion( Message-ID: <H19Evo.4CI@news.boeing.com>  7 In article <Xns92725AACF3977jknoxtrisoftcom@10.0.0.1>, 0+ "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com> writes:c  E |>I agree with you both on principle, really I do.  Changing multipleeI |>stuff at once goes against normal engineering ideals.  But it is not at E |>all clear that it is worth buying several VAX's (especially 8600's, H |>complete with star coupler drive clusters), installing airconditioningC |>and utility lines, having the purchased machines shipped here andoI |>installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3 will save us *that*p |>much money and time. t    I not knowing the extent of what the software implements and the particularhM hardware which you reference that it might/?/does rely upon, we are shooting d6 in the dark; however ... yah we do it all the time ...  O I was speaking only to an application of VAX VMS software which needs porting  hO to Alpha VMS; in that respect running the current software on say a VAXstation iH 4000-96 under VMS 7.3 is (understating it) a "very good idea"; likewise I the move to a current compiler version and getting the code tightened up  K while still on VAX say on VMS 7.3 is a very good idea; each of these steps  @ and the others mentioned will smooth the way for an Alpha port; ) in the best best case the port is done!!!   F thus (all specific hardware issues aside) the recommendation to form aI mixed VAX and Alpha VMScluster under 7.3 or maybe 7.2 is very good place @H to do the software port; once we get to hardware dependency and missing H code and VAXmacro32 code and the VAX/Alpha kernel differences and a veryK important production system and duplicating the existing system for porting F and business cost and etc - well those are more mountains to navigate;    still software is endlessly fun; --bn (Bart Nickerson)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:49:08 -0500=' From: "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com>s& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion( Message-ID: <3d65609c@news.netnitco.net>  > Our company also had to migrate a bunch of DEC Standard RUNOFFE to Microsoft word.  The result of this effort was to create a productlG that does most of the work.   Anyway,  if that is in your future, check  out what we did.  
 Earl Lakia Senior Staff Engineerl
 IPACT Inc.   lakia@<no spam>IPACT.com
 www.ipact.comR    4 "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com> wrote in message0 news:Xns92697F4D14F81jknoxtrisoftcom@10.0.0.1...J > Okay, please be patient.  I'm stepping into a new arena here, with a lot > of *old* VMS experience. >uI > It looks like we will be converting a large amount of software from VAXiG > VMS (not OpenVMS) to AlphaServer OpenVMS.  Most of this, fortunately,r@ > includes the source code, but a bunch doesn't (just the binary > application).u >cI > The binary pretty much sticks us with DecMigrate and hope for the best.h >hG > The other (mostly Fortran 77 source, with some Macro) we can probablye@ > handle without too much trouble, although it is a LOT of code. >mJ > I have "Google" searched, as well as the Compaq website, and see mentionE > of "there are a lot of companies that do this" but no list of names E > (much less recommendations).  We may, for reasons to complicated todJ > explain, be able to let any of these companies do the work, but we wouldF > probably be very interested in paying them as consultants to help usJ > come up to speed quickly and help us with specific problems that may hit > us.- >-J > So...  Any suggestions as to who I should talk to?  And am I missing any( > important tools other than DecMigrate? >(2 > Suggestions, questions, warnings most welcome... >4 >@1 > -----------------------------------------------n > James M. Knox 1 > TriSoft                        ph  512-385-0316e1 > 1109-A Shady Lane              fax 512-366-4331p1 > Austin, Tx 78721              jknox@trisoft.com.1 > -----------------------------------------------i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:53:47 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>f& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversionH Message-ID: <vbc99.18143$bu81.4188@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 <nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com> wrote in message=" news:H19Evo.4CI@news.boeing.com... >e8 > In article <Xns92725AACF3977jknoxtrisoftcom@10.0.0.1>,- > "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com> writes:o >aG > |>I agree with you both on principle, really I do.  Changing multipleoK > |>stuff at once goes against normal engineering ideals.  But it is not atoG > |>all clear that it is worth buying several VAX's (especially 8600's,oJ > |>complete with star coupler drive clusters), installing airconditioningE > |>and utility lines, having the purchased machines shipped here and2K > |>installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3 will save us *that*g > |>much money and time. >  >sK > not knowing the extent of what the software implements and the particulartE > hardware which you reference that it might/?/does rely upon, we aree shooting8 > in the dark; however ... yah we do it all the time ... >2G > I was speaking only to an application of VAX VMS software which needs2 portingFE > to Alpha VMS; in that respect running the current software on say a>
 VAXstationI > 4000-96 under VMS 7.3 is (understating it) a "very good idea"; likewisedJ > the move to a current compiler version and getting the code tightened upL > while still on VAX say on VMS 7.3 is a very good idea; each of these stepsA > and the others mentioned will smooth the way for an Alpha port;a+ > in the best best case the port is done!!!  >lH > thus (all specific hardware issues aside) the recommendation to form aJ > mixed VAX and Alpha VMScluster under 7.3 or maybe 7.2 is very good placeI > to do the software port; once we get to hardware dependency and missing2J > code and VAXmacro32 code and the VAX/Alpha kernel differences and a veryE > important production system and duplicating the existing system fors portingvH > and business cost and etc - well those are more mountains to navigate;  L Given the business they appear to be in, my guess it's military and probably> would have to be validated on the end hw/sw rather rigorously.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:06:15 -0400R  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion5 Message-ID: <1020822180206.5213B-100000@Ives.egh.com>m  & On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, John Smith wrote:  3 > <nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com> wrote in message8$ > news:H19Evo.4CI@news.boeing.com... > > : > > In article <Xns92725AACF3977jknoxtrisoftcom@10.0.0.1>,/ > > "James M. Knox" <jknox@trisoft.com> writes:m > >eI > > |>I agree with you both on principle, really I do.  Changing multiplehM > > |>stuff at once goes against normal engineering ideals.  But it is not atiI > > |>all clear that it is worth buying several VAX's (especially 8600's,oL > > |>complete with star coupler drive clusters), installing airconditioningG > > |>and utility lines, having the purchased machines shipped here andhM > > |>installed, and then starting the the upgrade to 7.3 will save us *that*f > > |>much money and time. > >n > >hM > > not knowing the extent of what the software implements and the particulareG > > hardware which you reference that it might/?/does rely upon, we aren
 > shooting: > > in the dark; however ... yah we do it all the time ... > >DI > > I was speaking only to an application of VAX VMS software which needs 	 > portingoG > > to Alpha VMS; in that respect running the current software on say a  > VAXstationK > > 4000-96 under VMS 7.3 is (understating it) a "very good idea"; likewisenL > > the move to a current compiler version and getting the code tightened upN > > while still on VAX say on VMS 7.3 is a very good idea; each of these stepsC > > and the others mentioned will smooth the way for an Alpha port; - > > in the best best case the port is done!!!  > >TJ > > thus (all specific hardware issues aside) the recommendation to form aL > > mixed VAX and Alpha VMScluster under 7.3 or maybe 7.2 is very good placeK > > to do the software port; once we get to hardware dependency and missingdL > > code and VAXmacro32 code and the VAX/Alpha kernel differences and a veryG > > important production system and duplicating the existing system forj	 > portingrJ > > and business cost and etc - well those are more mountains to navigate; > N > Given the business they appear to be in, my guess it's military and probably@ > would have to be validated on the end hw/sw rather rigorously.  ? I think it's a given that they would have to validate the finalg? Alpha-based replacement system, but I don't see any reason thatfC they would have to validate an intermediate development/test system = that was not and never intended to be used in production.  If A validating that system was required, I don't see why you wouldn'tgC also have to validate the pencils and paper on which you write your  pseudo code.   -- d John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2002 17:28:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion3 Message-ID: <pp68s1QX3LQR@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  R In article <3d65609c@news.netnitco.net>, "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com> writes:@ > Our company also had to migrate a bunch of DEC Standard RUNOFFG > to Microsoft word.  The result of this effort was to create a productiI > that does most of the work.   Anyway,  if that is in your future, checkd > out what we did.  B Of course since he is going VMS-to-VMS, RUNOFF is still supported.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:05:12 GMT  From: schiffkey@cfl.rr.com3 Subject: Wanted: vax/vms cobol programming positionf5 Message-ID: <3d658a43.1894824@news-server.cfl.rr.com>n   contact schiffkey@cfl.rr.com  * Wanted: vax/vms cobol programming position   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:44:12 -0400e1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>t( Subject: Re: XFC v2 ECO, negative report2 Message-ID: <3D653F0C.1411E30D@clarityconnect.com>  C Please report this to your local CSC.  AUTOGEN has had a history ofa0 problems with figuring out S0 space consumption.   Jim Strehlow wrote:rE > (Note: AUTOGEN does not detect an error if you specify too large ofr* > a MIN_VCC_MAXSIZE value in MODPARAMS.DAT     -- wC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYa0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or sou 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.463 ************************files have an AGEN$INCLUDE pointing to a file which addresses alleF non-node specific parameters, including the shadowing ones. The actual= MODPARAMS.DAT files have only node addressing and votes info.a   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland(   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 02:27:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: VMS to OpenVMS conversion- Message-ID: <87lm6yeok9.fsf@prep.synonet.com