1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 465       Contents:# Re: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedure) ) Re: backup & restore across VMS versions? % Re: Funny tape device identification. ' RE: High quality of HP Software support ' Re: High quality of HP Software support . Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP  Re: New missive from HP 7 Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD  silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" RE: silliest thing heard this week" RE: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" RE: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week Sounds like INS needs VMS ... D Re: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?D Re: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?D RE: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?$ Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?" Re: XFC patch for VMS 7.3 is up...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:36:48 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> , Subject: Re: attn: Paddy (re: DCL procedure)$ Message-ID: <3d668f0e$1@news.si.com>  C >If you setup IMAP on Exchage it will be readable by Mozilla's IMAP F >client. Other alternative is to setup Exchange to do local SMTP relay >to the VMS box.  I Just one problem with both of these suggestions.  As I said, the Email is K being _outsourced_.  I won't have any control over the Exchange server.  HP  will be running it.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:38:40 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> 2 Subject: Re: backup & restore across VMS versions?$ Message-ID: <3d668f7d$1@news.si.com>  D >How well does BACKUP handle restores to a newer version of OpenVMS?  K Very well.  I've restored backup savesets to OpenVMS V7.2 that were created ! on VAX/VMS V4.3 (and vice versa).  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:53:36 -0400 % From: "Chuck Viau" <viau@process.com> . Subject: Re: Funny tape device identification.+ Message-ID: <ak6445$7ih$1@news.process.com>   I The first thing I would check would be to make sure that all nodes in the ' cluster are at the latest firmware REV,  followed by driver ECO's  -cv 6 "Roger Haxby" <r_rem_a_haxby@iee.org> wrote in message8 news:cyt99.580$BV5.75787@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...F > We have a multi-node cluster using HSD controllers.  There is a tape deviceL > on one controller.  After a power outage on one cluster member, though notE > the HSDs, the tape ($3$MUA300:) was identified as $3$MKA300: on the  machine K > that had gone down.  The other machines saw both $3$MUA300 and $3$MKA300, L > although only $3$MUA300 worked.  (This was via $show dev m). Resetting theH > HSD did not help, nor powering it and the tape device down and up, norK > logging onto the HSD and removing and replacing the tape device (followed G > by a HSD reset), nor $mc sysgen autoconfig all.  One machine is still K > seeing MKA300: (and of course its the machine that normally uses the tape 
 > drive!). > K > I am reluctant to take down and reboot the machine without a good reason.  > 5 > Has anyone any explanation about what has happened? ) > How can a device identification change? J > Is there any way to remove the changed device and get recognition of the > correct device?  > G > Machines are VAXs, CI clustered.  HSDs are not in the cluster but are 4 > DSSI connected. Running VMS 6.1.  Tape is a TZ877. > --0 > R Haxby. To reply remove rem_a and all dashes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:16:31 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: High quality of HP Software supportT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266095E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  I I have my own small, but I think rather impressive story that I like to = 2 bring out when these types of discussions come up.  D About 2-3 years ago (Compaq days) I was having a hard time getting =I through to a particular group of people at a Customer Support Center (I = E seem to remember it was Atlanta). I was getting a bit hot under the = ' collar as I kept getting voice mails ..   I Finally, I got a hold of someone and I was about to unload on this poor = H individual about voice mails and not being able to get ahold of a real =J voice to talk to, when this individual stated "Well, you have to forgive =G the poor response times as we are in the middle of a hurricane here .."   I That floored me - here this person is still in the support center doing = E whatever he could to keep things running when the entire center was = E likely (I'm not sure what the real process is for things like this) = 0 previously told to go home before the storm hit.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Syltrem [mailto:syltremzulu@videotron.ca]=20 Sent: August 23, 2002 1:48 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support    H "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> a =E9crit dans le message de =' news: 3D5D780B.CA95AE7F@videotron.ca... F > It is pretty sad situation when what used to be taken as standard=20	 > support  isG > now seen as excellent support because standards were so significantly  lowered B > by the expectations set by Microsoft's "reboot and/or reinstal".  . It's not just Microsoft, it's a general trend.  I You have the same kind of problems everywhere, even in retail stores or = H cleaners or any other place where they should try to give satisfaction =3 to the customer, about the product or service sold.   & Very good service is very hard to find  G It's starting to change a bit, but it's not easy being a customer. If = J you want something real hard, too many times you have to fight and argue =
 to get it.   2 recent examples (this week): a) BAD serviceH Reknown audio store. I was looking for a VCR, the requirement was that =F it be the current replacement model for the one I already have (i.e. =H compatibility to read the markings on the tape for skipping ads, etc). =G The guy found it quick on his computer. They were out of stock. It is = F REGULAR stock though. He said he could order it for me but I need to =F leave a deposit. Not refundable. Why, if it is stuff they will order =I anyway? I told the guy I can't leave a deposit for an article for which = G I don't see more than its model number on his computer screen ( I was = D very polite with him!). I went to another store and they had it in =# stock. The other guy lost the sale.    b) GOOD service F I was looking for wheels (iron wheels for winter - why now? they are =J easier to find in the summer!) for my truck. They don't make it standard =G as the car does not come with anything else than mag wheels, from the = J dealer. I called my "preferred" tire shop. The guy looked at his listing =J and said there were no wheels that fit on his current listing. It was an =H hardcopy from his supplier - one he receives every month. Asked him to =I call the supplier and see if they had some in stock now. He did, called = I me back within minutes and guess what, I'm going to pick up my 4 wheels = H tomorrow. Another clerk could have said "call again when I receive the =
 new list".  E Those are not big things, they only demonstrate that not eveyone is = % cooperative in helping their clients.   F The people at DEC support (both software and hardware) almost always =J are. And on top of that, most of the time they know what they're talking =% about. Many know it very well indeed.    --   Syltrem A http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en = D fran=E7ais) To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  H "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> a =E9crit dans le message de =' news: 3D5D780B.CA95AE7F@videotron.ca...  > Syltrem wrote: > > # > > I agree 100% with what you say. J > > DEC/Compaq/HP support is excellent. They never tell you to deinstall =  F > > and reinstall because that's not the way it works on OpenVMS. They
 understandB > > their product, ask the right questions and lead you to a quick resolution.  > F > It is pretty sad situation when what used to be taken as standard=20	 > support  isG > now seen as excellent support because standards were so significantly  lowered B > by the expectations set by Microsoft's "reboot and/or reinstal".   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:38:16 -0700 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support- Message-ID: <3D66AB48.514B507F@NelsonUSA.com>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: > ? > I have my own small, but I think rather impressive story that > > I like to bring out when these types of discussions come up.   One of mine, circa 1983:  = I called the Colorado support center one night (about 8:00 PM A Pacific time) about a problem with the AME (VAX/RSX) "product" on > VMS v4.x.   The support guy called me back a few minutes later< and took the details.   It was obvious that he would have to< look at the source listings to help find a work-around.   He: apologized that it would take him a little while to do so,= because he had been paged while driving home, and was calling 8 me from a payphone outside a 7-11 market.   In the rain.  = He called me back an hour later from work (he had driven back = in!) and told me that after reviewing the source code, he had 8 determined that there was a bug.   He said that he would report it to engineering.   ; An hour later, I got a call from the engineer!   The guy at > the CSC had managed to reach him at home (remember, it was now< about 10:00 PM Pacific time, 1:00 AM Eastern).   He was able; to give me a short (but dangerous) patch that would keep me ; going until he could send me a proper fix, which he did the  following day.  : Those two guys went *way* beyond the terms of the contract; just because it was "the right thing to do", as one of them  said later.   < Not all my calls to the CSC were handled like this, but when> you give an "interesting" problem to a motivated (and curious) DECie, they are fantastic.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:19:49 -0400 1 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccusker@charter.net> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? / Message-ID: <umcv6b2a0en8c6@corp.supernews.com>   # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:ak32l7$q24$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > > This was the most telling part of this guys "I hate the merger" redux. HeC > > doesn't believe in stocks at all, and likes Martha.  Go figure.  > >  > @ > No he just maintains his independance by not holding any stock > 4 > A pretty honest stance from a financial writer and  I A "financial" writer who puts his "independence" above his financial well L being?  Andrew is saying that this guy believes in stocks (Andrew says it byJ way of contradicting Fred), but doesn't hold them in order to maintain his5 independence???  And, he is a financial writer?  Huh?    > hardly+ > something that anyone needs to go figure.  >   I Now I'm not sure which one "go figure" applies to more: Andrew's words or  Mr. Byron's words.  % Then Andrew says in a follow on post:   E >> Interesting thing about opinions - we all have them - and yours is  usually 	 >> wrong.  >> > ( >Produce some examples in the last year.  = I guess I would point to the statements above as a starter...   
 Brad McCusker    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:14:25 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? ? Message-ID: <BIw99.226442$sA3.347223@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:fv799.18$UO.375858@news.cpqcorp.net...  > ! > Alan Greig wrote in message ...  > > H > >Christopher Byron is a syndicated radio commentator and writer livingH > >in Connecticut. He is also the author of 'Martha Inc.: The IncredibleG > >Story of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia.' Mr. Byron does not invest I > >in equity securities in any form. He holds only U.S. government bonds,  > >notes, and CDs. > >  > L > This was the most telling part of this guys "I hate the merger" redux.  HeA > doesn't believe in stocks at all, and likes Martha.  Go figure.  >   K Well, you can always read what that clueless bozo from the Read Herring has J to say. On May 7 he was telling Carly to take a hike. New issue, new rant,+ but the same old sh*t from a worthless rag.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 13:47:15 -0700% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? ( Message-ID: <ak670j096s@drn.newsguy.com>  N In article <BIw99.226442$sA3.347223@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry says... >  >  > L >Well, you can always read what that clueless bozo from the Read Herring hasK >to say. On May 7 he was telling Carly to take a hike. New issue, new rant, , >but the same old sh*t from a worthless rag. >    How about J.P. Morgan?  A http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/23/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm   =                 Shares of Dow component Hewlett-Packard (HPQ: ?                 down $0.60 to $14.70, Research, Estimates) fell C                 after J.P. Morgan said near-term challenges for the ?                 computer hardware maker could weigh on results. A                 The firm also said that tough industry conditions A                 could pose a risk to the company's July estimates >                 and that the company could issue disappointing4                 guidance about its October quarter.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:48:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D667573.5EF640B4@videotron.ca>  % winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote: C > >Remember that wintel-centric companies do not have the corporate P > >culture/attitudes of "customer". They just assemble other people's components- > >into boxes and bulk ship to the "channel".  > 2 > *Koff-koff* Gateway *koff-koff* Dell *koff-koff*  L Neither Dell nor Gateway have "intimate" relations with their customers onceJ the sale has been done. Enterprise systems vendors do, through maintenanceM contracts as well as sales force visits to the customer to pitch new products  etc etc.  N Of Course, bobby GQ palmer destroyed the sales force portion, prohibiting mostM customers from dealing directly with Digital, a move which cost Digital a lot 8 of money and which had to be reverves in many countries.    I As far as HP is concerned, I agree with you that prior to Carly, HP was a M serious company. But since Carly, I really am not sure what HP is. Carly sold H off the "real" HP (now called Agilent) and focused so much on the wintelL market that I really am not sure what is left. Her killing of MPE is anotherN thing that needs to be remembered, since, with the Alpha murder, are decisionsK that outline a lot the mentality of the company with regards to enterprise.m  J The other thing which is confusing is that during the pregnancy, Carly andI Curly had the "Windows will eviscerate" speaches and protrayed the mergedeJ entity's future as a very wintel centric company. But come the vote, Carly: seems to have been far less public about her Wintel plans.  L Was there a true, long term, change in philosophy, or is this just a ploy toL get profits from the legacy "enterprise" stuff until the wintel stuffis backL up on its feet ? Did some of the major shareholders who had intended to voteM NO but who negotiated deals which resulted in their voting YES put conditionstJ that Carly needs to drop the Wintel push ? If so, how long will this last?  H It would seem to me that if there really was a change in mentality whichM occured at about the same time as the vote, it was too quick and too quiet toiM be truly genuine, so I am quite suspicious about it. Perhaps it will turn out L to be a good long term decision, but perhaps it is just some temporary stuffK and Carly/Curly will return to their old wintel selves as soon as possible.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:42:55 GMTv# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>F  Subject: Re: New missive from HPI Message-ID: <Pmv99.71582$8aG1.34544@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>-  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D667573.5EF640B4@videotron.ca...' > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:eE > > >Remember that wintel-centric companies do not have the corporate G > > >culture/attitudes of "customer". They just assemble other people'st
 components/ > > >into boxes and bulk ship to the "channel".  > >o4 > > *Koff-koff* Gateway *koff-koff* Dell *koff-koff* >sI > Neither Dell nor Gateway have "intimate" relations with their customerst onceL > the sale has been done. Enterprise systems vendors do, through maintenanceF > contracts as well as sales force visits to the customer to pitch new products
 > etc etc. >.K > Of Course, bobby GQ palmer destroyed the sales force portion, prohibitinga mostK > customers from dealing directly with Digital, a move which cost Digital ae lotn: > of money and which had to be reverves in many countries. >  >,K > As far as HP is concerned, I agree with you that prior to Carly, HP was aoJ > serious company. But since Carly, I really am not sure what HP is. Carly soldJ > off the "real" HP (now called Agilent) and focused so much on the wintelF > market that I really am not sure what is left. Her killing of MPE is anothertF > thing that needs to be remembered, since, with the Alpha murder, are	 decisions A > that outline a lot the mentality of the company with regards to  enterprise.  >lL > The other thing which is confusing is that during the pregnancy, Carly andK > Curly had the "Windows will eviscerate" speaches and protrayed the mergedTL > entity's future as a very wintel centric company. But come the vote, Carly< > seems to have been far less public about her Wintel plans. >"K > Was there a true, long term, change in philosophy, or is this just a ploy- toI > get profits from the legacy "enterprise" stuff until the wintel stuffist backI > up on its feet ? Did some of the major shareholders who had intended tol voteD > NO but who negotiated deals which resulted in their voting YES put
 conditionsL > that Carly needs to drop the Wintel push ? If so, how long will this last? >tJ > It would seem to me that if there really was a change in mentality whichL > occured at about the same time as the vote, it was too quick and too quiet toK > be truly genuine, so I am quite suspicious about it. Perhaps it will turnT outhH > to be a good long term decision, but perhaps it is just some temporary stuff C > and Carly/Curly will return to their old wintel selves as soon aso	 possible.n    J Or maybe she just wishes that she had access to Sherman and Peabody's 'WayL Back Machine' and could undo the merger, give how the economy has tanked and' not recovered at the rate she expected.A  F Effecting cost savings by reducing duplication is one matter, but whenL revenue isn't walking in the front door you have to think very carefully howH you cope with that. Cutting the PC business back further might mean thatI they may never challenge Dell again. Cutting back the enterprise businessgG back may mean that they forever lose critical customers to Sun and IBM.aL Walter was probably right...stick to printers where they were leaders of the pack...everyone needs them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:14:45 -0400-; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: New missive from HP$ Message-ID: <3d6697f3$1@news.si.com>  / >Leading a pole and fagot lead recovery I hope.A  K Paul, this doesn't translate very well into US English.  I wish I knew whatb you meant here.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comsA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comh= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventa< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:08:55 -0700t& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>  Subject: Re: New missive from HP, Message-ID: <3D669657.4000305@gregcagle.com>   JF Mezei wrote:l  K > As far as HP is concerned, I agree with you that prior to Carly, HP was amO > serious company. But since Carly, I really am not sure what HP is. Carly soldtJ > off the "real" HP (now called Agilent) and focused so much on the wintelN > market that I really am not sure what is left. Her killing of MPE is anotherP > thing that needs to be remembered, since, with the Alpha murder, are decisionsM > that outline a lot the mentality of the company with regards to enterprise.S  " Once again, Carly didn't kill MPE.   -- 9
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 00:53:18 GMT=$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU  Subject: Re: New missive from HP8 Message-ID: <00A12E56.6D4A1D64@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3D667573.5EF640B4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:& >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:D >> >Remember that wintel-centric companies do not have the corporateQ >> >culture/attitudes of "customer". They just assemble other people's componentsc. >> >into boxes and bulk ship to the "channel". >>  3 >> *Koff-koff* Gateway *koff-koff* Dell *koff-koff*o >aM >Neither Dell nor Gateway have "intimate" relations with their customers onceoK >the sale has been done. Enterprise systems vendors do, through maintenanceeN >contracts as well as sales force visits to the customer to pitch new products	 >etc etc.a  L Dell seems to be intimately-entwined with the people here at SLAC.  I'm not K impressed with Dell's engineering, but they do sell RAID arrays and storage K servers on which there are warranty records and service contracts.  I don'tiI know whether Dell ever visits SLAC in person, but - through webpages witheH prepriced special-to-SLAC configurations, etc - they seem to keep enoughN contact to get a _lot_ of business from us, and they usually warn us when someO configuration we've got a lot of is about to stop being manufactured, so we cano get more if we want.   > O >Of Course, bobby GQ palmer destroyed the sales force portion, prohibiting mosttN >customers from dealing directly with Digital, a move which cost Digital a lot9 >of money and which had to be reverves in many countries.p  O Actually, various moves in the history of DEC/Digital had results that were badyN for the long term future of the company even though they weren't intended thatN way.  I may misremember the timing on the whole thing, but I think the licenseF restrictions on the BI-bus weren't Palmer's fault - and were driven byN short-sighted greed, not by a desire to downsize the company; flip-flopping onI relations with "the channel" through the eighties and nineties wasn't allnF Palmer, either.  (And flipflopping was even worse than sticking with aO channel-unfriendly policy straight through, since it made more virulent enemies.N to suck resellers in and then screw 'em than it would have to never pretend toM be their friends.)  I think "destroying the sales force" - that is, trying toiN leave some money on the table for the VARs to pick up -- wasn't necessarily anK evil idea, although it was implemented very badly from everybody's point ofuL view, and left a lot of smaller accounts unable to figure out who they couldN buy from.  By the middle of the 90s there were a lot of people who felt they'dJ been screwed by Digital and never wanted to buy anything from them again, O regardless of technical merit.  The "trust" problem didnt' begin with Capellas.a   >s > J >As far as HP is concerned, I agree with you that prior to Carly, HP was aN >serious company. But since Carly, I really am not sure what HP is. Carly soldI >off the "real" HP (now called Agilent) and focused so much on the wintellM >market that I really am not sure what is left. Her killing of MPE is anothernO >thing that needs to be remembered, since, with the Alpha murder, are decisionsoL >that outline a lot the mentality of the company with regards to enterprise.  K Although there is a lot of sentiment (among Agilent employees, anyway) thatsM this is the "real HP", you should remember that they spun off, basically, theoK test equipment and scientific computing business.  The enterprise computingrK business, the printer business, and the PC business stayed in "the new HP."jF There is certainly a lot of unhappiness and uncertainty among "old HP"M employees of my acquaintance - who tend to be mid-level technical folks - andtN they're not fans of Carly's, but it isn't usually a Wintel focus they complainL about.  (They complain about losing the family feeling of the company, whichH used to avoid layoffs when business was slack by spreading the pain withO week-long unpaid vacations for _everybody_ or through other creative solutions;n Carly doesn't play that way.)s     >wK >The other thing which is confusing is that during the pregnancy, Carly andwJ >Curly had the "Windows will eviscerate" speaches and protrayed the mergedK >entity's future as a very wintel centric company. But come the vote, Carlya; >seems to have been far less public about her Wintel plans.b > M >Was there a true, long term, change in philosophy, or is this just a ploy towM >get profits from the legacy "enterprise" stuff until the wintel stuffis backeM >up on its feet ? Did some of the major shareholders who had intended to votenN >NO but who negotiated deals which resulted in their voting YES put conditionsK >that Carly needs to drop the Wintel push ? If so, how long will this last?a >oI >It would seem to me that if there really was a change in mentality whichaN >occured at about the same time as the vote, it was too quick and too quiet toN >be truly genuine, so I am quite suspicious about it. Perhaps it will turn outM >to be a good long term decision, but perhaps it is just some temporary stuff L >and Carly/Curly will return to their old wintel selves as soon as possible.  L These are good questions, and we really do have to wait and see.  I think we7 need to be careful not to assume the worst immediately.c   -- Alant   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Aug 2002 00:52:43 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>@ Subject: Re: Seeking bootable VMS image for simulator on FreeBSD, Message-ID: <ak6lcr02tsf@enews3.newsguy.com>  ( Ford Prefect <spam@microsoft.com> wrote:E > Ok, ok. So, how *does* one get a hobbyist licence? One would dearlygF > love to "do it oneself" but one hopes that the spirit of cameraderie@ > out there in VMSLand might induce someone to give out a URL if( > possible, or something of the kind....  C You should find pointers to everything that you need at my website:i+ http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.htmlh  E As others have pointed out the first thing you'll have to do get youroO Encompass (DECUS) membership so that you can get the Hobbyist License PAKs and rK order the Hobbyist CD.  Until you've done this, there is no reason to worry 3 about anything else, as you can't do anything else.    			Zane'   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 12:59:19 -0600- From: frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie)l' Subject: silliest thing heard this weekt3 Message-ID: <+I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H 	You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on the O Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop alot.  -M The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100  O users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine.o  G 	I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a terminal  & and teach him what a REAL computer is.  & 	...  can't run 100 users... sheesh.     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:27:13 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekc4 Message-ID: <N5v99.9173$H67.50409@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  < I can't figure how his weendoze systems could run 100 users.K I'm the only one on my machine and some applications get more cpu clocktimeeK than others and that bothers me (you want to bring a window back on top andt  it does not respond right away).  L And windows is single-user unless you use the fairly recent "terminal serverE edition" or windows 2000 with that same thing activated. And it wouldeL problay crawl with 100 users even on a fast cpu. We have Citrix here and its/ not particularly performant with 5 users on it.r  I Remember the laundry soap ad? I'll never let go ONE VMS box for 2 (or anyr number) of the other brand.n   --   SyltremRI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais).8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  J "Sharon Guthrie" <frey@encompasserve.org> a crit dans le message de news:( +I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org...H > You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on theI > Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop. alot.aJ > The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100 H > users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine. > G > I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a terminald( > and teach him what a REAL computer is. > % > ...  can't run 100 users... sheesh.n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 13:11:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week 3 Message-ID: <wuNnO3Oazy0t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <+I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>, frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie) writes:0J > 	You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on the Q > Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop alot.  SO > The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100 vQ > users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine.l  > Well VMS systems can _support_ 100 users, but perhaps he meantH _run_ users, the way Microsoft systems _run_ their users (aka: victims).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:31:57 -0600e% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>t+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeksB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020823123008.01b3da20@raptor.psccos.com>  I Heck, back in 1984 or so, we were running several times that number on an J 11/782 in the CSC at DEC...wasn't always smooth, but they did run.  That's+ what the major call tracking system ran on.m  , At 12:59 PM 8/23/2002, Sharon Guthrie wrote:J >         You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs  > on theI >Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop l >alot.M >The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100HH >users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow 	 >machine.a >rG >         I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a r
 > terminal' >and teach him what a REAL computer is.n >i- >         ...  can't run 100 users... sheesh.l   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:35:31 -0400t; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>t+ Subject: RE: silliest thing heard this weekcK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA28@rlghncst964.usps.gov>t   Not.  ; Usernames and node identities redacted for obvious reasons.a   REDACTED$ SHOW USERS/PAGE   7  Username      Node     Interactive  Subprocess   Batchs7       OpenVMS User Processes at 23-AUG-2002 13:33:04.13e=     Total number of users = 2278,  number of processes = 2646-  7  Username      Node     Interactive  Subprocess   Batch !  **********   ABC121            1j!  ***********  ABC121            1g!  ************ ABC124            11!  ************ ABC121            1 !  *********    ABC124            1o!  **********   ABC124            17!  **********   ABC124            1o   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----6 From: "Sharon Guthrie" [mailto:frey@encompasserve.org]% Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:59 PMs To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" ' Subject: silliest thing heard this week     K      You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on the*G Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop  alot.uL The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100F users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine.  J      I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a terminal& and teach him what a REAL computer is.  (      ...  can't run 100 users... sheesh.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:43:30 -0400e5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>e+ Subject: RE: silliest thing heard this weekaO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B7FD@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   J And how long ago was that?  5 years?  10?  How many concurrent users could3 he run on a windoze machine back then?  10?  1? :-)H     -----Original Message-----= From: frey@encompasserve.org [mailto:frey@encompasserve.org] e Sent: August 23, 2002 2:59 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh' Subject: silliest thing heard this week     C 	You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs onr the G Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shopr alot.  nL The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100  F users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine.  = 	I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a 	 terminal m& and teach him what a REAL computer is.  & 	...  can't run 100 users... sheesh.      I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andgJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication isoJ strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theH original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acceptK orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not besL responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrainL from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed thatH we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that toJ satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail: correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:14:29 GMTi From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGt+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeka0 Message-ID: <00A12E37.DBEE8E3B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <+I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>, frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie) writes: I >	You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on the nP >Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop alot.  N >The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100 P >users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine. > H >	I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a terminal ' >and teach him what a REAL computer is.i >a' >	...  can't run 100 users... sheesh.  E  L ... and without need to reboot after ever Nth run of some application!  ShowM him that you can print to a printer without having to search the web for ump-yM teen mindless hours in search of a "printah dry-vuhr".  Demonstrate somethingrN totally foreign to him such as how you can perform an image backup of the sys-M tem disk and then, replace it with some other disk and restore to a bootable,oM completely functional system without reinstalling squat!  Here's a real kick-tM er!!!  Show him how you can change the IP address of the machine without need 
 for a reboot.l  $ Remember, real men don't do Windows!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:56:59 -0400p- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week 6 Message-ID: <ak60i2$1frub8$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>  : "Sharon Guthrie" <frey@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:+I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org...5 >...G > I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a terminal. >...  8 There are other newsgroups where you could discuss this. :)   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:55:06 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekeG Message-ID: <eyv99.25539$bu81.311@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>y  2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20020823123008.01b3da20@raptor.psccos.com...K > Heck, back in 1984 or so, we were running several times that number on antL > 11/782 in the CSC at DEC...wasn't always smooth, but they did run.  That's- > what the major call tracking system ran on.r  K back in 1982 I was running up to 30 simultaneous users on a 750 with 4mb ofLC memory, running a Fortran app. Most were coming in via an X.25 PAD. J Naturally it was a bit slow if everyone was banging on the keyboard at theH same time, but overall it wasn't too bad. We didn't start seeing similarH response times for single users on PC's until the IBM AT came out and we9 replaced the factory 6MHz clock crystal with an 8MHz one.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:09:19 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeki, Message-ID: <3D668858.8C4119A8@videotron.ca>  $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote:9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 23-AUG-2002 13:33:04.13y? >     Total number of users = 2278,  number of processes = 2646  > 9 >  Username      Node     Interactive  Subprocess   Batchs# >  **********   ABC121            1i# >  ***********  ABC121            1 # >  ************ ABC124            1f# >  ************ ABC121            1e# >  *********    ABC124            1w# >  **********   ABC124            1p# >  **********   ABC124            1   M Obviously a VMS bug here. I only count 7 interactive users, not the 2278 shown users says there are.r  ' :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:09:19 GMTc* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week A Message-ID: <PDw99.38552$Aw4.1717485@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:eyv99.25539$bu81.311@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > 4 > "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message> > news:5.1.0.14.2.20020823123008.01b3da20@raptor.psccos.com...J > > Heck, back in 1984 or so, we were running several times that number on anF > > 11/782 in the CSC at DEC...wasn't always smooth, but they did run. That's/ > > what the major call tracking system ran on.  >cJ > back in 1982 I was running up to 30 simultaneous users on a 750 with 4mb ofE > memory, running a Fortran app. Most were coming in via an X.25 PAD. L > Naturally it was a bit slow if everyone was banging on the keyboard at theJ > same time, but overall it wasn't too bad. We didn't start seeing similarJ > response times for single users on PC's until the IBM AT came out and we; > replaced the factory 6MHz clock crystal with an 8MHz one.t  J Gee, was the 750 that much of a pig?  When we were developing RMS-11 V1.0,G we did so on an 11/45 with 248 KB of memory and shared it with about 20 G other users (for a total of about 25).  Response time wasn't bad unless * several of them were doing COBOL compiles.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:59:25 -0400o' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>y+ Subject: RE: silliest thing heard this week T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660960@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,p  G >>> When we were developing RMS-11 V1.0, we did so on an 11/45 with 248p KB of memory<<  ? Ahhh - amazing where we used to be to where we have come today.t   [memory mode on]D I still remember working on one of Digitals first RISC systems (PDP8F only had 6 or 7 instructions) with 8-16K memory. I remember going to aE Customer site and being totally amazed at the new disk drive they hadeH added on which gave them 32K of disk storage - the DF32. The programmersB were commenting about how great it was to have this much capacity. [back to today]p  E Hey, perhaps we need to have a few of these programmers today spend a G week in front of one of these older PDP8/11 servers and see if they cana5 actually deliver a working program in that timeframe.    :-)t   Regardsi    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicess Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20 Sent: August 23, 2002 4:09 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week       . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:eyv99.25539$bu81.311@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  >i7 > "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message=20d> > news:5.1.0.14.2.20020823123008.01b3da20@raptor.psccos.com...J > > Heck, back in 1984 or so, we were running several times that number=20 > > on anF > > 11/782 in the CSC at DEC...wasn't always smooth, but they did run. That's/ > > what the major call tracking system ran on.l >MI > back in 1982 I was running up to 30 simultaneous users on a 750 with=20o > 4mbo ofH > memory, running a Fortran app. Most were coming in via an X.25 PAD.=20H > Naturally it was a bit slow if everyone was banging on the keyboard at  I > the same time, but overall it wasn't too bad. We didn't start seeing=20oJ > similar response times for single users on PC's until the IBM AT came=20F > out and we replaced the factory 6MHz clock crystal with an 8MHz one.  D Gee, was the 750 that much of a pig?  When we were developing RMS-11D V1.0, we did so on an 11/45 with 248 KB of memory and shared it withE about 20 other users (for a total of about 25).  Response time wasn'tn5 bad unless several of them were doing COBOL compiles.u   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:07:23 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>:+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeknI Message-ID: <fux99.25734$bu81.14256@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>d  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messages; news:PDw99.38552$Aw4.1717485@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...t >m >(L > Gee, was the 750 that much of a pig?  When we were developing RMS-11 V1.0,I > we did so on an 11/45 with 248 KB of memory and shared it with about 20 I > other users (for a total of about 25).  Response time wasn't bad unlessc, > several of them were doing COBOL compiles. >o  K Forgot to mention the 4-5 developers doing code development/compiles at the0K same time. And a bunch of DEC APL and later we added Cognos Powerhouse too.0J The APL really put a load on the system. Response time was much better forL our users in Europe before we came into the office at about 6am, and the Far: East after our North American users went home at about 6pm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:44:46 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week , Message-ID: <3D66ACCE.9080808@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:eyv99.25539$bu81.311@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...l > 4 >>"Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message> >>news:5.1.0.14.2.20020823123008.01b3da20@raptor.psccos.com... >>I >>>Heck, back in 1984 or so, we were running several times that number ono >>>r > an > E >>>11/782 in the CSC at DEC...wasn't always smooth, but they did run.m >>>n > That's > . >>>what the major call tracking system ran on. >>>rJ >>back in 1982 I was running up to 30 simultaneous users on a 750 with 4mb >> > of > E >>memory, running a Fortran app. Most were coming in via an X.25 PAD.lL >>Naturally it was a bit slow if everyone was banging on the keyboard at theJ >>same time, but overall it wasn't too bad. We didn't start seeing similarJ >>response times for single users on PC's until the IBM AT came out and we; >>replaced the factory 6MHz clock crystal with an 8MHz one.l >> > L > Gee, was the 750 that much of a pig?  When we were developing RMS-11 V1.0,I > we did so on an 11/45 with 248 KB of memory and shared it with about 200I > other users (for a total of about 25).  Response time wasn't bad unless3, > several of them were doing COBOL compiles. >  > - bill    " Yep, the 750 was pretty worthless.  Q That's not really fair, looking back from today.  But, VMS never supported users aM like the PDP-11's did.  Put 20 busy users on the 750 and few would be happy.  * Even me running at a higher priority.  :-)   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:16:56 -0700a( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeky- Message-ID: <3D66B458.826C5543@NelsonUSA.com>m   Sharon Guthrie wrote:   P >         You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on theO > Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop alot.vN > The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100Q > users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine.s  J Counting the terminals in the police cars, the LAPD 911 system was runningF 500 users on a PDP-11/70 under RSX-11M-Plus.   Today, they are runningI the same application (and a lot more) on a VMS (very early Alpha) system.t  G As an aside, my wife was the system manager at that time.   Our runningSP joke was that you don't want to manage a system where the users carry guns!  :-)  C Ask your boyfriend if he would like to be responsible for a Windows E system where any outage, even for just a few minutes, could result inm someone dying.  E My production VMS 7.2-1 system has been up for only 257 days, because H I had to reboot it as part of the upgrade.   I have one logging job thatI has been running all that time.   I am waiting to see what happens on theaG SHOW SYSTEM display when the number of I/O operations exceeds 999999999lJ and overflows into the Priority field.   That should happen sometime early
 next year.  J > I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of a terminal...   JPG!!   JPG!!   JPG!!     :-)    Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:03:43 GMTh1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)e+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week = Message-ID: <jbz99.335634$q53.10758620@twister.austin.rr.com>-  ) Alan Frisbie (Abuse@NelsonUSA.com) wrote:- : E : Ask your boyfriend if he would like to be responsible for a WindowsWG : system where any outage, even for just a few minutes, could result in  : someone dying. : 0    http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html    Navy carrier to run Win 2000a  I   "The Navy's next-generation aircraft carrier will use Microsoft WindowsS?    2000 to run its communications systems, aircraft and weaponss)    launchers, and other ship electronics.0    3H    The CVN 77, one of the Navy's nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, willI    run Microsoft Windows 2000 for a variety of communications and weaponsB    systems..."    *  D    http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/08/08/carrier.windows.idg/    CNN.com - Technology - J    Futuristic Windows version to control aircraft carrier - August 8, 2000  B   "...The CVN-77 win is a key triumph for Microsoft in the defenseI    industry, because it sets the stage for the company's participation inyI    the Navy's long-term, three-phase future carrier design program. "This E    is not just the one ship. It will decide the architectures for thedG    next three ships," Roach said. Microsoft's agreement also includes asH    back-fit program for seven other carriers, bringing the total to 10."    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailc   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:25:16 GMTe1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week-0 Message-ID: <3D5E9D61.264CCFA1@yahoo.commercial>   Sharon Guthrie wrote:l > P >         You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on theO > Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shop alot.nN > The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100Q > users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow machine.m  E FWIW, around 1994-1996 I used to play with a two node VAX/VMS cluster2G (8650 & 6540, aka Moose and Squrrl :). One node typically had 200 usersrE while the other did 400 easily. All running WordPerfect, E-mail, IRC,h and whatnot.  A But then GUI E-mail clients and a Windows-centric management came  along... Sigh...   --   Ed Wensell III  ; E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.r   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 19:50:52 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Sounds like INS needs VMS ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0208231850.120ccf4d@posting.google.com>0   INS inspector: Databaseh of terrorists often crashes A Foreign passengers at airports get a pass when computers go down n  P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: August 23, 2002n 1:00 a.m. Eastern      By Paul Sperry  2002 WorldNetDaily.com i    F WASHINGTON  The computer database immigration inspectors use to checkF for suspected terrorists and criminals at international airports oftenD crashes, yet inspectors continue to process passengers arriving fromE abroad, a veteran U.S. inspector at Los Angeles International Airportr told WorldNetDaily.o  < The Immigration and Naturalization Service shares a databaseF containing the lookout bulletins from several law-enforcement agencies@ with the U.S. Customs Service. The system  known as TECS, whichE stands for Treasury Enforcement Communications System  is considered 0 antiquated and unreliable by airport inspectors.  F "The computers freeze up and stop processing on a regular basis," saidB Terry Hamilton, an INS inspector and special operations officer at( LAX, the nation's third-busiest airport.  D "We have anywhere from 30 seconds to 1 minute to decide if a foreign9 national should enter the U.S.," he added in an exclusiven< WorldNetDaily interview. "When the computers freeze up, manyC inspectors will continue to process passengers without putting themw6 into the TECS system while the computer is rebooting."  F Those same inspectors will go back between flights and enter passenger' names into the lookout system, he says.   E "But if a TECS hit comes up, it's too late  the passenger is alreadyi: processed and gone," said Hamilton, a 14-year INS veteran.  B What's more, he says, the database is incomplete, missing names of@ many violent felons, which forces inspectors to access the FBI'sA National Crime Information Center database, which they share witht Customs.  E "The TECS lookout system is not tied into INTERPOL or NCIC," HamiltonhB said, "so we will often get out of the regular TECS system and getA into the NCIC system to verify if a criminal history exists on an ; individual" who looks suspicious or fits a certain profile.-  C "And 50 (percent) to 60 percent of the time, I will come up with anoC NCIC hit on the individual showing one or more felonies  where theeA person has served time in prison for crimes such as rape, murder,sE robbery," he added. "And yet these persons are continuing to walk thenD streets (of America) and take international flights with their names5 not being listed on the regular TECS lookout system."   F Hamilton's concerns about the technical failures of TECS echo those ofC other INS inspectors at Miami International Airport and Dallas-Fort" Worth International Airport.  ? In an interview with WorldNetDaily, INS spokesman Russ Bergeronu- confirmed "technical difficulties" with TECS.i  ; "Periodically, the system does go down," he said, "and it's@
 frustrating."s  F But Bergeron says the Treasury Department recently studied the data on@ system downtimes and found that most of the outages were tied to$ scheduled maintenance of the system.  E "There seldom are unscheduled outages," he said. "They found that the, system is generally reliable."  C He also points out that there are backup redundancies in place, and-= inspectors are advised to "reroute and go through the Justice , (Department's) mainframe" if TECS goes down.  E Hamilton says he and other inspectors use a backup system called PALSbB when TECS goes down for a long time. PALS is an INS system used to8 query foreign nationals applying for entry into the U.S.  E "The problem with this system is that it's updated every six months  = if that; and any person placed on a recent lookout, such as alE terrorist hit by the FBI or State Department, will probably not be onsB that system," Hamilton said. "And they'll be admitted to the U.S."   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Aug 02 20:01:33 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)wM Subject: Re: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?e) Message-ID: <cc0p9QpybFSy@elias.decus.ch>i  l In article <WOp99.7$Tp1.135280@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:W > In article <Nfeqdd0ak7jh@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:0Q >>I tried my first upgrade from V7.3 (no XFC) to v7.3-1 today. Not from CD but anlN >>early copy we have been given. I don't know if this is the exact thing which >>will arrive on CD. > ..L >>However, on booting the satellite over the network, it could not mount the3 >>system disk, giving error %x728334 and a bugcheck  >> >>That error is: >> >>----? >> DEVSHAMEM,  device is already mounted as a shadow set member  > .. > I > There has been recent discussion about upgrading shadowed system disks.*  M Talk about Murphy's Law! I got behind with reading comp.os.vms this week, and*" only read that stuff this morning.  H > The upgrade and installation manual provides instructions on how to doG > this.  I suspect that whoever gave you this "early copy" did not give-H > you the Upgrade and Installation manual.  [One questions whether they  > did you a favor or not.]  K Indeed. In this case, my intention was mainly to create a check list of thehG steps required, and throw the installation away afterwards. I find thismK approach useful, particularly where manual steps are required. I often find1G it's a good idea to create DCL procedures for the manual tasks to avoidoN mistakes on the "going live" upgrade. That also reduces the relative stress ofL working on the console with no cut and paste, only a line editor, in a noisy computer room etc.  O Another benefit is timing the steps to give a good estimate of the time it willt$ take to upgrade production machines.   > F > The similar instructions for the V7.3 manual should work for V7.3-1.B > I do not recall any material changes in this part of the manual. > E > If you follow the instructions, you should not have this problem.  y: > If you do, please report it through the formal channels. >    That I will do.m  E > Copies of OpenVMS obtained via other than HP's formal distribution  E > are always suspect.  They can be and sometimes are incorrect or, as D > is apparent in this case, incomplete.  When problems are found in D > these "ad hoc" distributioins there is no process to correct them. >   
 Sound advice.   9 > Always use formal distributions for production systems.    Agreed.t   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:54:18 GMT9, From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@hp.com>M Subject: Re: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?1& Message-ID: <3D667395.6B2A7FD3@hp.com>  M CDSA initialization needs to be done for each system disk in the cluster, notoH necessarily for each individual node.  The databases that it creates areK located in SYS$COMMON, and should be usable by any node sharing that systemg disk.   J Yes, it does take a while to run the initialization procedure.  That's oneK reason why we didn't make it happen automatically during the upgrade.  This O way, it can be done at your convenience.  We're working on some changes for the.3 next version that should make this go a bit faster.w  K You will need to rerun the CDSA initialization if you upgrade the operatingeK system, or if you install a CDSA upgrade or patch.  This will put knowledgee< about any new/changed CDSA functionality into the databases.  G More information about CDSA can be found in the new manual "Open SourcerL Security for OpenVMS Alpha, Volume 1: Common Data Security Architecture", asM well as the Intel CDSA Developer's Guide (CDSA$APP_DEV_GUIDE.PDF) that can bei found in SYS$HELP.   	Wayne Morrisont 	CDSA project leader   Paul Sture wrote:2 > ...  > > > One more item: In the post upgrade task list, one should runJ > @sys$startup:cdsa$initialze (CDSA = Common Data Security Architecture), H > once and only once. The manual does not mention whether this should be( > run once per cluster or once per node. > K > It appears from my one-off shot that it needs running on each node of the 8 > cluster (and it takes quite a few minutes, I may add). >  > ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:46:34 -0400u' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>iM Subject: RE: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover Letter?sT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266095F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Wayne,  C As a follow-on to your note, the open source security guide for VMSk2 V7.3-1 can also be found at: (long urls will wrap)  E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6660/6660PRO.HTM (Vol 1 or  pdf)  E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6661/6661PRO.HTM (Vol 2 orc pdf)   Regards     
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message----- From: Morrison, Wayne=20 Sent: August 23, 2002 1:54 PMw To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E Subject: Re: V7.3 to V7.3-1 upgrade problems. Something for the Cover: Letter?-    @ CDSA initialization needs to be done for each system disk in theF cluster, not necessarily for each individual node.  The databases thatF it creates are located in SYS$COMMON, and should be usable by any node sharing that system disk.1  F Yes, it does take a while to run the initialization procedure.  That's@ one reason why we didn't make it happen automatically during theF upgrade.  This way, it can be done at your convenience.  We're workingC on some changes for the next version that should make this go a bite faster.t  A You will need to rerun the CDSA initialization if you upgrade theoG operating system, or if you install a CDSA upgrade or patch.  This willE? put knowledge about any new/changed CDSA functionality into thep
 databases.  G More information about CDSA can be found in the new manual "Open Sourcew: Security for OpenVMS Alpha, Volume 1: Common Data Security: Architecture", as well as the Intel CDSA Developer's Guide7 (CDSA$APP_DEV_GUIDE.PDF) that can be found in SYS$HELP.    	Wayne Morrison  	CDSA project leader   Paul Sture wrote:s > ...  >=20A > One more item: In the post upgrade task list, one should run=20i? > @sys$startup:cdsa$initialze (CDSA =3D Common Data Security=20eH > Architecture), once and only once. The manual does not mention whether  7 > this should be run once per cluster or once per node.e >=20J > It appears from my one-off shot that it needs running on each node of=20< > the cluster (and it takes quite a few minutes, I may add). >=20 > ...>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:38:35 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> - Subject: Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?u$ Message-ID: <3d669d88$1@news.si.com>  E >What Fortran can do only now, and only on some platforms, C has been5 >able to do for a decade.a  @ What C can do now, VAX Fortran has been able to do for a decade. -- tA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comnA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent>< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2002 12:43:34 -0700" From: ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)+ Subject: Re: XFC patch for VMS 7.3 is up...c= Message-ID: <995e39b6.0208231143.5d1c6e4a@posting.google.com>   d hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<ajeq0j$oh0$5@web1.cup.hp.com>...W > In article <fTXCH$N21Tex@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: m > :In article <8debc3ff.0208130531.4945f18d@posting.google.com>, ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell) writes:F > :> <I > :> Who's going to be first to put it into production and report back to- > :> the rest of us? > :o: > :Visions of everyone waiting for everyone else here :-)  >  >  > $ sho mem/cachB >               System Memory Resources on 14-AUG-2002 19:42:29.16 > D > Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 23-JUL-2002 16:18:12.05)N >   Allocated (GBytes)            1.00    Maximum size (GBytes)           1.00N >   Free (GBytes)                 0.23    Minimum size (GBytes)           0.00O >   In use (GBytes)               0.76    Percentage Read I/Os              91%0O >   Read hit rate                   80%   Write hit rate                     0%oN >   Read I/O count            18136029    Write I/O count              1590790N >   Read hit count            14655314    Write hit count                    0N >   Reads bypassing cache        33383    Writes bypassing cache        447697N >   Files cached open              746    Files cached closed             4876N >   Vols in Full XFC mode            0    Vols in VIOC Compatible mode     295N >   Vols in No Caching mode          5    Vols in Perm. No Caching mode      0  E Yup, Hoff is running exactly ZERO volumes in full XFC mode and 295 ingE a compatible mode.  How about posting the results with 295 volumes inO full XFC mode?  N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  	    .../Edt   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.465 ************************