1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 466       Contents:P Another conversion to MS Windows horror story - SC Dept. of Motor Vehicles VehicP Another conversion to Windows horror story - SC Department of Motor Vehicles Veh' RE: High quality of HP Software support ' RE: High quality of HP Software support ' Re: High quality of HP Software support ' RE: High quality of HP Software support  Re: LN17ps Ethernet " Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download  Re: set file/data_check (REPOST)  Re: set file/data_check (REPOST)" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week  Re: Size of logical name table ? Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour? # Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2 # Re: VMS 7.3-1 Doc set... plain jane & VMS clustering years ahead of unix ... Web page updated" Re: XFC patch for VMS 7.3 is up...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:28:58 -0400  From: Ray <r_tim@bellsouth.net> Y Subject: Another conversion to MS Windows horror story - SC Dept. of Motor Vehicles Vehic - Message-ID: <3D67B44A.C68FF96A@bellsouth.net>   F South Carolina just converted their Department of Motor Vehicles to MSG Windows.  The result has been lines so long that the governor has given F a 30 day extension on getting anything done there.  The Highway patrolH has been blocked from doing Name look-ups since it brings the system to H a halt.  It crashes so frequently that most often law enforcement can't : get any information at all, putting their lives in danger.  < Don't know what they used before, but they had VT terminals.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:23:15 -0400  From: Ray <lists@aik.tec.sc.us> Y Subject: Another conversion to Windows horror story - SC Department of Motor Vehicles Veh - Message-ID: <3D67B2F3.6AC1669E@bellsouth.net>   F South Carolina just converted their Department of Motor Vehicles to MSG Windows.  The result has been lines so long that the governor has given F a 30 day extension on getting anything done there.  The Highway patrolH has been blocked from doing Name look-ups since it brings the system to H a halt.  It crashes so frequently that most often law enforcement can't : get any information at all, putting their lives in danger.  < Don't know what they used before, but they had VT terminals.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 07:19:41 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: High quality of HP Software supportT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D94FB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Alan,   E I have always thought this topic of "so what does good service in the C support area really mean?" might be a great topic for a book .. Not 5 necessarily just VMS, but service support in general.   F Any takers ... Great number of stories could likely be collected right here on comp.os.vms ..   :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Alan Frisbie [mailto:Abuse@NelsonUSA.com]=20 Sent: August 23, 2002 5:38 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support     "Main, Kerry" wrote: >=20I > I have my own small, but I think rather impressive story that I like=20 7 > to bring out when these types of discussions come up.    One of mine, circa 1983:  E I called the Colorado support center one night (about 8:00 PM Pacific 9 time) about a problem with the AME (VAX/RSX) "product" on > VMS v4.x.   The support guy called me back a few minutes later< and took the details.   It was obvious that he would have to< look at the source listings to help find a work-around.   HeE apologized that it would take him a little while to do so, because he 2 had been paged while driving home, and was calling8 me from a payphone outside a 7-11 market.   In the rain.  = He called me back an hour later from work (he had driven back = in!) and told me that after reviewing the source code, he had 8 determined that there was a bug.   He said that he would report it to engineering.   ; An hour later, I got a call from the engineer!   The guy at > the CSC had managed to reach him at home (remember, it was now< about 10:00 PM Pacific time, 1:00 AM Eastern).   He was ableG to give me a short (but dangerous) patch that would keep me going until > he could send me a proper fix, which he did the following day.  : Those two guys went *way* beyond the terms of the contractG just because it was "the right thing to do", as one of them said later.   H Not all my calls to the CSC were handled like this, but when you give anB "interesting" problem to a motivated (and curious) DECie, they are
 fantastic.   Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:19:53 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG 0 Subject: RE: High quality of HP Software support0 Message-ID: <00A12ECF.7C5EB477@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D94FB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >Alan, > F >I have always thought this topic of "so what does good service in theD >support area really mean?" might be a great topic for a book .. Not6 >necessarily just VMS, but service support in general. > G >Any takers ... Great number of stories could likely be collected right  >here on comp.os.vms ..   G I don't have many stories of great support but I have plenty of stories ; about poor support.  Should I start with the cable company?    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:21:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software supportI Message-ID: <SDM99.32815$bu81.32076@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D94FB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Alan,   E I have always thought this topic of "so what does good service in the C support area really mean?" might be a great topic for a book .. Not 5 necessarily just VMS, but service support in general.   F Any takers ... Great number of stories could likely be collected right here on comp.os.vms ..  
 More like:7 Vol. 1 - Great Service and Support Stories (not fables)   F Vol. 2 - Vol. 893 - Not So Great Service and Support Stories (also not fables)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:44:55 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: High quality of HP Software supportT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9500@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,   G Mmmmm.. Perhaps a book like what Tom Peters wrote a few years ago .. "A  Passion for Excellence".  B Rather than focus on good and bad examples of Quality (as he did),= perhaps this would focus on good and bad examples of support.    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  Sent: August 24, 2002 10:22 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: High quality of HP Software support      2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D94FB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .  Alan,   E I have always thought this topic of "so what does good service in the C support area really mean?" might be a great topic for a book .. Not 5 necessarily just VMS, but service support in general.   F Any takers ... Great number of stories could likely be collected right here on comp.os.vms ..  
 More like:7 Vol. 1 - Great Service and Support Stories (not fables)   F Vol. 2 - Vol. 893 - Not So Great Service and Support Stories (also not fables)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:28:22 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>  Subject: Re: LN17ps Ethernet& Message-ID: <3D67980E.70501@uiowa.edu>   dittman@dittman.net wrote:  ? > I have an LN17ps with a bad Ethernet card (it doesn't show up ? > as an installed option on the config sheet).  I've had a hard ? > time finding a replacement.  Does anyone know of a place that = > still has any in stock, or does anyone have one from a dead " > LN17/LN17ps they'd like to sell? > ? > Otherwise, what is my best option to get this printer back on = > the network for use with DCPS?  I'm thinking an external HP > > JetDirect, but I don't want to get one if it won't work with
 > the LN17ps.  >  > Thank you. >   C we have several LN17ps printers attached to JetDirect print servers  with no problems.    rick --  J Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/ J | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst   --   INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020 E                  (Consulting to the Physics and Astronomy Department)    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2002 11:03:30 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>+ Subject: Re: OpenVms / Vax -- free download 6 Message-ID: <20020824110330.16497.qmail@nym.alias.net>  4 On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:   <snip>  @ >CD distribution was the software distribution model of the 90s.H >Unfortunately for DEC/COMPAQ/HP the move is definitely towards internetM >distribution of software including the OS.  They need to wakeup to this fact O >and start putting all their layered products on the net and thinking about how M >to redesign the OS installation procedure. The latter would IMHO be greatly  - >facilitated by going back to using savesets.   D There are a lot of other issues to be addressed before this would beJ possible. Security and integrity of what users download for starters, justE look at the recent trojanising of an SSH version for unix. IIRC, this K included redoing the PGP signature files so you couldn't tell until someone I pointed you to the announcement. I'll bet there are still systems running 
 this version.   G Then there is licencing. The license someone has may technically permit E them to install and run a newer version of a layered product, but the C attached terms may prohibit this without payment of an upgrade fee.   ( I'm sure there are other issues as well.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2002 20:05:49 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: set file/data_check (REPOST) - Message-ID: <87u1lkbgwy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:   D > The last time I found the read and write-check features useful wasD > when I was copying files between a VAX 11/730 and a 11/780, with aB > PDP-11/70 in between (and probably a non-ethernet communicationsC > channel; I wasn't an admin then so I don't have all the technical ? > details).  Once we got both VAXen on the ethernet, the errors  > vanished.   B Even at this distance of time and space I can smell the overloaded8 BA-11! Couple of DMRs or DEUNAs in the one box did we...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2002 20:03:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: set file/data_check (REPOST) - Message-ID: <87y9awbh17.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   0 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  E > My question is: does anyone turn on this checking? I did some tests E > and found a small performance hit. (One has to be careful to ensure B > caching is not affecting the test! Repeat the COPY command a fewF > times.) I get about a 15% increase in elapsed time for a 14175 block; > file with write checking enabled compared to no checking.    F > And for what circumstances is it appropriate? I would guess for life; > support and manned space flight, but are they any others?   D I would turn it* on for any toad (MFM) or IDE disk. But then, I have% been bitten by write errors on one :(   B Like wise, those who don't use the CRC checks that backup has are,A IMO, insane... If the data is not work looking after, why are you D bothering to turn the stupid machine on? (OK, I run the 2100 to keepF warm, what is your excuse :) ) There may be cases where you can say "IC don't care about this file because..." but to start from a position C that all is junk till proven otherwise is asking for a free trip to  Redmond.  : * In fact, not at the file level, but for the entire disk.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:55:45 +1200  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week 3 Message-ID: <O3G99.1471$Fc4.298529@news.xtra.co.nz>   2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660960@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Bill,     F >Hey, perhaps we need to have a few of these programmers today spend aH >week in front of one of these older PDP8/11 servers and see if they can6 >actually deliver a working program in that timeframe.  = Wow,  do you imply that you can get some programmers to spend < a week in front of one of these newer Wx/HP/CPQ servers (all> of the programmers at once btw?) "and see if they can actually- deliver a working program in that timeframe"?    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Aug 2002 07:44:16 GMT* From: Rick Kelly <rmk@roothog.rmkhome.com>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week 3 Message-ID: <3d673950$0$185$75868355@news.frii.net>   & Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:K > Heck, back in 1984 or so, we were running several times that number on an L > 11/782 in the CSC at DEC...wasn't always smooth, but they did run.  That's- > what the major call tracking system ran on.   . > At 12:59 PM 8/23/2002, Sharon Guthrie wrote:  N >>The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run 100I >>users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow  
 >>machine.  I With careful tuning a PDP-11/70 running BSD could support 100 logins from @ students reading mail, netnews, and compiling homework problems.  L Getting a little more OT, a Sun Sparcstation 2 from 1992 running SunOS 4.1.2J can easily handle 100 users doing mail and news. (that's a 40mhz processor with 64 megs of memory)   G And I was once the admin of a Microvax 2 running VMS 4.x that often had , 80 users logged in. Slow? Yes. Worked? yes.   * Microsoft Windows? Good for playing games. --  , rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:14:25 +0000 . From: Graham Burley <100625.30@compuserve.com>) Subject: Re: Size of logical name table ? . Message-ID: <3D67B0E1.643CF8DE@compuserve.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  [snip] > ? > Yes, DCL OPEN, READ, CLOSE isn't the fastest way to process a F > configuration file.  But what are the alternatives?  Write a programF > to read it in?  And then where do you put the results?  In a logicalA > name table?  Good idea.  But why not precreate the logical name A > table and save yourself some time.  Indeed, that's the poster's  > bright idea. >  [snip]  F I'm suprised nobody suggested making the configuration file an indexedE file and using READ/KEY rather than a looping scan. This does requireiF changes to the way the configuration file is maintained, but it avoidsD the logical name table creation and update complications and worries' about the size of the configraton data.i     Graham   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:03:35 +0200s) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>o$ Subject: Strange F$TRNLNM behaviour?* Message-ID: <ak7eko$npr$2@news1.xs4all.nl>  ; (I tried to post this through Google, but it didn't appear)e  < [ OpenVMS Alpha V7.3, I don't think any ECO's are relevant ]  " Did anyone ever try the following?  ) $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF",,,"EXECUTIVE")e  " TEMP will contain "", in spite of:   $ SHOW LOGICAL/FULL SYSUAFD     "SYSUAF" [exec] = "<whereever>SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)  C (No, it makes no difference if you have SYSUAF in LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)    Also,l   $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF")c  : gives the expected value in TEMP, "<whereever>SYSUAF.DAT".    E The reason seems to be that the default value for the second argumentaA to F$TRNLNM is LNM$DCL_LOGICAL. LNM$DCL_LOGICAL is, by default, a F SUPERVISOR mode logical name which translates to LNM$FILE_DEV. BecauseB F$TRNLNM is instructed to ignore any equivalences in an outer modeC than EXECUTIVE, it does not use the equivalence of LNM$FILE_LOGICAL F and therefore it has no table to look for SYSUAF. It does not issue an6 error message, nor does it return a different $STATUS.   If I do:  F $ DEFINE/EXEC/TABLE=LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY LNM$DCL_LOGICAL LNM$FILE_DEV) $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF",,,"EXECUTIVE")1   I get the expected result.   OK, so far, so good.  ? The funny thing is, that LNM$FILE_DEV is also a SUPERVISOR modeM logical name. But:  7 $ TEMP = F$TRNLNM("SYSUAF","LNM$FILE_DEV",,"EXECUTIVE")o  $ DOES give the translation of SYSUAF!  $ This does not seem consistent to me.   Am I missing something?h   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:05:19 +0000 (UTC)n% From: John Forkosh <john@invalid.com> , Subject: Re: telnet from *NIX to OpenVMS 7.2, Message-ID: <ak7p9f$6rn$1@reader1.panix.com>  ! John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:u* : On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, John Forkosh wrote:) : > Franklin <joshua@www.iocc.com> wrote:nF : > : OK. there's an OpenVMS 7.2 machine set up running a library cardN : > : catalog for a couple of universities. The interface is all telnet-based.F : > : It appears to work well from Windows (HyperTerm, cmd.exe telnet,N : > : TeraTerm, etc.) with the exception of sending a form-feed to the default : > : printer.   : > :rM : > : However, I'm having a problem with a telnet from linux hosts, I believeoN : > : because the interface sends a ^O control character. Has anyone run into M : > : this kind of problem before? I'm not the admin of the machine, but if I L : > : could get some clear steps I could forward them to appropriate person.L : > : Alternatively, if anyone knows of workarounds on the linux end I could" : > : put together an FAQ for it.  : > D : > Robert Deininger was on the right track.  I had the same kind ofD : > problem a while back, and someone on this ng explained it to me.@ : >      There's a bug in the current tcp/ip implementation thatA : > thrashes the machine if you telnet to it with a terminal type  : > it doesn't recognize.y  > : No, not in the "current tcp/ip implementation".  The bug wasE : in an older version (V5.1?) and was fixed years ago by a patch kit.  :u? : Either upgrade to the current version (V5.3) or make sure the + : latest ECO for your version is installed.r  < Thanks for clarification.  I had installed whatever's in the@ [kits] directory of the (now sold-out) montagar hobbyist vax cd,? which I think is 5.1 as you suggested.  I guess the new cd will ) have a newer version without the problem.s  D : >      Try an  echo $TERM  from your Linux box and you'll probablyB : > see  linux  which is unknown to vms.  Before telnetting to theD : > vms box,  just issue  TERM=vt100  (make sure vt100 is lowercase,E : > upper won't work for some reason I don't know), or issue whatever : : > is appropriate if your shell isn't bash.  Then telnet. : > Works like a charm!!!o   : -- m
 : John Santosb : Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. : 781-861-0670 ext 539 -- .> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:10:27 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 Doc set... plain janeJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2408020910270001@1cust82.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  J In article <4C519CCC638BD411A4270000F8CD1D8240CC47@NTSV2>, "McCarthy Kevin  P." <McCarthyKP@BWSC.ORG> wrote:  @ >Although many people on the news group complained about the SunD >workstation on the cover of the 7.3 doc set at least there was some >color and content.  > G >I just got the 7.3-1 doc set and it is the plainest  thing I have evernF >seen; did they lay off everyone who could make a cover.  Our in-house- >stuff is several orders of magnitude better.i  G The docs arrived at work this week, and I agree, they are quite plain. eI But everyone I talked to is glad the Compaq name is gone from the covers.   ND >Maybe they just wanted to get the HP name on the docs??? If so theyH >should have changed the "Compaq Computer Corporation  Houston Texas" on >the first page.  % I asked, and this is what I was told:p  H Nothing was done about the logos and branding until after the merger was	 complete.c  I After the merger, much of the doc set was frozen, or nearly frozen.  (The(B expected release date was earlier than the actual release date, asH always.)  There was (barely) time to change the covers of the books, butI no time to do a fancy design or fiddle with the inside cover pages or theg actual text of the books.p  0 The next set of books is expected to be fancier.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2002 05:14:27 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: VMS clustering years ahead of unix ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0208240414.7375a52f@posting.google.com>   G of course, everyone here already knows that ... nice 9/11 reference ...     I http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pdfa   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:26:49 GMT 3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>a Subject: Web page updatedl5 Message-ID: <3D68161A.E064B2B6@DigitalSynergyInc.com>p  H I have put a VMS version of FastCGI on our website for download. I would be grateful if you would  add a link to it from your page.       www.DigitalSynergyInc.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:30:11 -0400F2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: XFC patch for VMS 7.3 is up... J Message-ID: <rdeininger-2408020930110001@1cust82.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <995e39b6.0208231143.5d1c6e4a@posting.google.com>,u# ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) wrote:s  o >> $ sho mem/cachaC >>               System Memory Resources on 14-AUG-2002 19:42:29.16l >> &E >> Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 23-JUL-2002 16:18:12.05)iO >>   Allocated (GBytes)            1.00    Maximum size (GBytes)           1.00nO >>   Free (GBytes)                 0.23    Minimum size (GBytes)           0.00jP >>   In use (GBytes)               0.76    Percentage Read I/Os              91%P >>   Read hit rate                   80%   Write hit rate                     0%O >>   Read I/O count            18136029    Write I/O count              1590790eO >>   Read hit count            14655314    Write hit count                    0oO >>   Reads bypassing cache        33383    Writes bypassing cache        447697.O >>   Files cached open              746    Files cached closed             4876.O >>   Vols in Full XFC mode            0    Vols in VIOC Compatible mode     2952O >>   Vols in No Caching mode          5    Vols in Perm. No Caching mode      0- >-F >Yup, Hoff is running exactly ZERO volumes in full XFC mode and 295 inF >a compatible mode.  How about posting the results with 295 volumes in >full XFC mode?9    Someone mentioned this before...  I There is no such thing as "Full XFC mode".  IIRC, the 7.3-1 release noteswE mention this, but the item didn't make it into the ECO release notes.   M Think of the "Vols in Full XFC mode" item as "Reserved to Digital/Compaq/HP".    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.466 ************************