1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 28 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 473       Contents: Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article+ DECwindows configuration for TCP/IP access. * Re: Digital Terminal Concentrator PC4XB-DB" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly link warnings... Re: MATCHC Instruction Old games for VAX system.  Re: Reverse LAT " Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster8 Re: Size of I/O count fields in SHOW PROC and SHOW SYS ?! Re: Sounds like INS needs VMS ... - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance # Various tidbits about HP financials ' Re: Various tidbits about HP financials # where to get an MMJ cable in the UK ' Re: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK 9 White Paper on DT clustering - VMS as the "Gold Standard" " Re: XFC patch for VMS 7.3 is up...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:32:33 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: "inview" Article F Message-ID: <BSUa9.4351$GK2.1938@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0208261456.74aa7b7e@posting.google.com...  > E > This journal has been published for some time, and it came from the F > HP-classic side of the organization, and so was of course originallyC > targetted at pre-merger HP customers, who ran HP-UX, Windows, and  > Linux. > F > I exchanged e-mail with the editor, asking whether the publication'sE > scope was to be expanded post-merger to cover the pre-merger Compaq H > products, and found out that change was already well underway -- as ofH > the next issue (October) the journal will begin to have Compaq-classicF > content.  In a quick look at the draft of that edition, I spotted anE > article on AlphaServers and the EV7 chip that mentions both OpenVMS D > and Tru64, an article on some StorageWorks product or another, and, > another article that talked about NonStop. > G > A high-quality printed journal like this has lead-times of at least 2 A > 1/2 to 3 months between authors writing articles and the glossy D > printed magazine hitting the streets, so such changes do take some? > time.  It's only been about 3 1/2 months since the merger was F > finalized, so it's obvious they have moved fairly quickly to embrace* > the inclusion of Compaq-classic content.      I What irks me about this is that with all the confidence in the world that E Carly showed leading up to the shareholder vote and her confidence in G overcoming the Delaware Chancery Court challenge by Walter Hewlett, why K didn't HP simply go ahead in this article and deal with the VMS port in it? D If it turned out that the merger died, everyone receiving the glossyF magazine in mid-late August 2002 would have known that the article wasK prepared when the merger glow was rising rhapsodically in the hearts of all 
 HP employees.   F CPQ had announced that VMS was to be ported to Itanic, efforts in thatJ direction had already begun prior to the finalization of the merger. CarlyK had indicated the the 'commitment plan' would be followed. So why, he asked K pointedly, would the Itanic Marketing Manager not go on-record about VMS on J Itanic in a publication that would be released long after the CEO was sureH her deal would get done - and well into the timeframe that HP would haveF known that VMS customers would have serious questions about VMS at HP?I Instead we wind up with an article that makes any 'commitment' by HP look  suspect.  J Here it is, late August 2002 and we are having stuff from HP land on CIO /H CTO desks and everyone else on down the line and all they see is the big  blank spot when it comes to VMS.  L Come on HP, wake up - chant this 100 times each morning before you read yourH e-mail, "Perception is reality." Then make your decisions about what you write.  H To say that HP ought to have known better is a gross understatement, butI then again with MC and crew treating VMS like some country bumpkin that's I best left ignored, it's not hard to see where HP corporately got its cues  from.   H So now we are left with the need for HP to make amends for Mr. Carlson'sA omission from the current issue's article. Seems like a marvelous H opportunity for Carly to requisition an entire page of the next issue toG state her unwavering commitment to OpenVMS - word's like "It's the best H operating system we own or sell", would be nice, its further developmentI (without time limits), and extensive marketing to new customers.....After I all it is ideal for all existing customers (and they run the gamut of all K known business, military, education, government, healthcare, and scientific K uses on the planet) so what's wrong with marketing OpenVMS to all the other K customers in those fields that currently don't use OpenVMS, and that's just J in addition to all the e-commerce initiatives HP allededly has planned for VMS.  I Sounds like a major and serious marketing campaign for OpenVMS that Carly L will be announcing in the next issue of InView. If she doesn't, then one has to wonder......    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 02 07:42:24 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: "inview" Article ) Message-ID: <$jLh0cv8lVlP@elias.decus.ch>   l In article <BSUa9.4351$GK2.1938@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > L > Here it is, late August 2002 and we are having stuff from HP land on CIO /J > CTO desks and everyone else on down the line and all they see is the big" > blank spot when it comes to VMS. >   E Not entirely a blank spot. Yesterday I received an HP flyer which was @ specifically for VMS and Tru64 Alphaservers. A picture of a coinH operated binocular machine, and a silver coin like token, with the theme of "Vision".  D I a reference I just posted to a white paper on the Tru64 site which refers to VMS as below.   > (Thanks to my local VMS ambassador for pointing this one out).  D White paper comparing clustering techniques in light of DT (Disaster Tolerance).   K > http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pdf    @ "Before comparing the available Unix DT options, let's examine a? highly successful non-Unix model: the Disaster Tolerant OpenVMS ; Cluster. Still considered the "gold standard" in commercial > clustering, it's not unusual for OpenVMS Cluster uptimes to be measured in years."    > "While still years away from the OpenVMS "gold standard," UnixC clustering has been coming of age in recent years. All of the major F Unix implementations have a failover capability, some have developed aF Cluster File System (CFS), and two of them-Tru64 UNIX and Solaris-have4 made clustering an integral part of the OS kernel. "   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:41:33 -0000  From: sword7@speakeasy.org4 Subject: DECwindows configuration for TCP/IP access./ Message-ID: <umohjdslh6qb5c@corp.supernews.com>    Hello folks:  F I am working on my TS10/VAX emulator.  I am figuring out how to set upG DECwindows server for TCP/IP interface so that I can login into system  C from outside by using X-Windows on Linux machine.  Does anyone have A any information about instructions?  Yes, I noticed that someone  , sucessfully set up DECwindows on it earlier.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:29:45 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 3 Subject: Re: Digital Terminal Concentrator PC4XB-DB ' Message-ID: <3D6C3AC9.24A75936@fsi.net>    Stuart Johnson wrote:  > 6 > << First posted to comp.sys.dec, no responses yet >> > M > Does anyone know what a (Digital) Terminal Concentrator, model PC4XB-DB is, H > or have a pointer to information on the net about the device? It looksJ > somewhat like a terminal server, but is smaller (8"x7"x1.5"), has 8-RJ45N > ports (not MMJ!), a connector marked "optional POWER", and another connectorK > marked "HOST". The "HOST" connector is similar to a PS/2 mouse connector, J > but doesn't have the keying slot that a mouse connector does. It is also > labeled "29-28309-01-B01". > J > The only writing on the box that seems useful is "Use only with adaptersI > noted in the instructional manual". This makes it sound like a terminal + > server that is used with a network card??  > G > I received this with some other equipment from a friend and am bugged M > because I've never heard of such a device before, and wonder if it is worth ? > fooling with. My friend didn't know anything about it either.   D I have one of those here. I may even have the driver for it, but theG caveat is that it only works with SCO-UNIX/IA32, and there is a counter + part card that goes in the ISA cage, AFAIK.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:34:27 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly < Message-ID: <nUUa9.38653$_91.1034@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  L Well, seems to me that HPQ pretty much made its numbers, and it sure as hellD doesn't look as bad as Sun (which might be a bargain at four bucks).  G But it's fun to watch the whiners at Read Herring, et al, make complete  asses of themselves.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:21:39 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly I Message-ID: <TsWa9.22425$6m61.16155@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message < news:ehQa9.230711$m91.9508765@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > K > E.g., just about half of Compaq's revenue came from PCs (as distinct from I > Intel servers).  But on average it made zero (or less, after taking its I > share of general corporate overhead into account) profit on PCs for the  pastJ > several years.  So while its on-going PC revenue helped damp its overallF > revenue swings, that contributed nothing (or worse) to its financial health.   L Any introductory Corporate Finance textbook will argue that if you aren't atL least equaling the hurdle rate for return on capital, often specified as theJ amount of return you can earn on a risk-free investment such as T-bills orE other high-grade short maturity bonds, then you should not be in that 	 business.   L Last I recall, Carly has an MBA. She should have learned this during the 1st week of first year.   L There can be arguments made that sometimes one simply HAS to be in a certainH line of business in order to reap economies of scale, and it may be thatL without the PC business HP's cost of memory chips, CD-drives, or Torx screwsK might be otherwise higher and would unfavorably impact the reported profits  of the server business.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:34:03 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly ' Message-ID: <3D6C3BCA.6A2AC9A1@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > > news:ehQa9.230711$m91.9508765@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > M > > E.g., just about half of Compaq's revenue came from PCs (as distinct from K > > Intel servers).  But on average it made zero (or less, after taking its K > > share of general corporate overhead into account) profit on PCs for the  > pastL > > several years.  So while its on-going PC revenue helped damp its overallH > > revenue swings, that contributed nothing (or worse) to its financial	 > health.  > N > Any introductory Corporate Finance textbook will argue that if you aren't atN > least equaling the hurdle rate for return on capital, often specified as theL > amount of return you can earn on a risk-free investment such as T-bills orG > other high-grade short maturity bonds, then you should not be in that  > business.  > N > Last I recall, Carly has an MBA. She should have learned this during the 1st > week of first year.   @ At what point in the MBA course did they mention "loss leaders"?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:14:15 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly B Message-ID: <beXa9.130290$Aw4.5478762@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message6 news:nUUa9.38653$_91.1034@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...I > Well, seems to me that HPQ pretty much made its numbers, and it sure as  hellF > doesn't look as bad as Sun (which might be a bargain at four bucks).  K I guess if one considers a $2 billion loss for the quarter to be good news,  anyway.   G To avoid a great deal of additional (and unnecessary) typing, I'll just J quote a note that I sent to Mike Magee tonight about various contributionsC Terry has recently made to The Inquirer that sheds light on Terry's * objectivity about this, and other, topics:    
 Dear Mike,  J Since I read The Inquirer for content rather than vendor PR, articles suchG as August 27th's on the supposed Superdome 'records' are disappointing. L While Terry may get paid or otherwise derive compensation for producing such3 trash, I hope you don't get paid for publishing it.   J First of all, the TPC-C 'record' is of course rather carefully engineered:F the top of the non-clustered TPC-C result column remains occupied by aH 128-processor Fujitsu PRIMEPOWER machine running (gasp!) SPARCs - but itJ happens to be running a SymfoWARE database rather than Oracle, hence fails# to meet Terry's arbitrary criteria.   F Now, one could bluster about having to use twice as many processors toI achieve only a modest performance edge, except that this is precisely the I same strategy that Superdome (with 64 processors) used to squeak past the J IBM Regatta (with 32 processors) very close on its heels in third place on? the list.  And while Terry was careful to call out the marginal H per-processor performance edge that Superdome enjoys over SunFire in hisD TPC-H comparisons, he was conspicuously silent about this nearly 2:1L per-processor performance edge that the IBM Regatta enjoys over Superdome in TPC-C.  I He also neglected to mention how the SunFire compares with Superdome on a L TPC-H cost/performance basis (the SunFire is slightly superior - surprise!),J though he was careful to point out the marginal cost/performance advantage( Superdome has over the Regatta in TPC-C.  J Terry's resemblance to a Carly&Curly sock-puppet is hardly confined to theK above article.  On the same day, after a title and single leading paragraph H gratuitously deriding Sun and anyone else who might dare to question theL wisdom of the cHumPaq merger, he then quotes HP's Q3 financial press release> VERBATIM (with an occasional word and, four times, a brief andF largely-uninformative sentence of his own thrown in, and elsewhere theE occasional press release sentence or paragraph left unquoted) FOR THE G REMAINING 14 PARAGRAPHS OF HIS 'ARTICLE'.  If this is what you consider H journalism, I'm afraid your future in the field may be limited - and theD inclusion of a copyright symbol following such blatant plagiarism is out-right farce.  B The press release that Terry quoted without attribution appears atB http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2002/q3.htm.K Interesting aspects that he neglected to point out include the fact that HPsK lost over $2 billion in the quarter but chose to characterize somewhat moreoL than that amount as an unaudited pro-forma adjustment to make it appear thatJ they would have made money had it not been for the costs of the merger andJ restructuring (though they seem happy to include as revenue and profit anyL benefits of the merger and restructuring, such as they may be), and that theJ only profitable segments for the quarter (at least if one ignores that $2+= billion in additional expenses that HP would like us to) were F Imaging/Printing ($813 million) and Services ($275 million), while theI Personal Systems Group lost $198 million and the Enterprise Systems Groupu lost $422 million.  J Not one to miss an opportunity to tout his patron, Terry included an overtJ (and wholly irrelevant) plug for HP's (supposed) 'cryptographic expertise'I at the end of his "Paranoia or Pragmatism?" article just one day earlier.bF Since he has done this sort of thing for years in his own 'newsletter'C (another rather dubious example of the art of journalism) one can'taG characterize it as new behavior on his part, but at least in my limited-. experience it is somewhat new to The Inquirer.  C Oh, dear.  After all the above my suspicions were aroused about the<K Superdome article as well, and - lo and behold! - it too seems to have been.L lifted (only slightly less verbatim than the financial article) from this HPI press release:  http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/26aug02b.htm.  AtoJ least he had the decency to leave the copyright symbol off that 'article'.  J So, Mike:  When I first pointed out, in far less detail and without havingJ yet noticed the blatant plagiarism, the close relationship between Terry'sK Inquirer articles and HP PR, you effectively replied "Well, you know Terry,iH but I'll copy him on this."  That may have been a marginally appropriateH (though I'd still say rather blinkered) response given the brevity of myD initial comment, but I suggest that it's far from adequate given the additional information above.i  L So I hope that you'll publish this rebuttal to help even things up, and be a0 bit more careful what you publish in the future.   Thanks,r   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:56:55 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly/, Message-ID: <3D6C49FB.B4450BFA@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:rN > There can be arguments made that sometimes one simply HAS to be in a certainJ > line of business in order to reap economies of scale, and it may be thatN > without the PC business HP's cost of memory chips, CD-drives, or Torx screwsM > might be otherwise higher and would unfavorably impact the reported profitse > of the server business.l  D That was the hope when Compaq took over Digital. But the cheap AlphaN workstations didn't materialise even though it became possible for these to be( built with "volume purchased" materials.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:59:44 +0530h; From: "aniruddha patwardhan" <aniruddha_patwardhan@bmc.com>h Subject: link warnings...d/ Message-ID: <umontjs7pccgbc@corp.supernews.com>   ; Hi I am getting following warnning while linking C program.S  $ %LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warningsC         in module XYZ file OAK$DKA200:[SYS0.SYSUPD.PWD045]XYZ.OBJ;1r  ) (name of module and name of file changed)   K can anyone elobarate more on why I am getting this warning and how should In
 remove it?   TIA-	 Aniruddhat   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:47:50 GMTE# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: MATCHC InstructionH- Message-ID: <3D6C39E5.46A67116@earthlink.net>v   Going to the macro help with:H  # $ help macro vax instruction matchct  E Shows that the source length to be a word, hence limited to 2^16-1 insC length.  I may be wrong but most, if not all string lengths for VAXvB instructions are 16-bit. That's a big string but you might mean an even bigger one!   Hope this helps,   -- Aaron Sliwinski   Steve Ray wrote: > A > The MATCHC instuction on a VAX has failed when the string to be F > searched is very large. I can find no documentation that specifies aH > maximum value for the string to be searched. Have others found this to > be a problem?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:49:46 -0000o From: sword7@speakeasy.org" Subject: Old games for VAX system./ Message-ID: <umoi2q9lavf190@corp.supernews.com>n   Hello folks:  B I found old games like Adventure, etc. in UBVMS archives ftp site F and downloaded them into my Linux machine (Red Hat Linux 7.3).  On my H TS10/VAX emulator, I successfully downloaded them from my Linux machine E into VAX system.  That was very fast downloads - Ethernet-like speed.,  D On OpenVMS v7.2, I successfully unpacked and compiled Adventure gameE by using DEC FORTRAN compiler.  That was just warning about variablessH not used, etc.  I was able run Adventure (551-point system) without any 	 problems.o  - Do you remember that old games in 1980s, etc?t   -- Tim Stark   -- e, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:24:47 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>" Subject: Re: Reverse LAT' Message-ID: <3D6C399F.925AC5BD@fsi.net>a   Hans Vlems wrote:2 > N > Could you tell me what software version you're running on it (screen dump of# > the SHOW SERVER would do nicely)?dJ > It would be very useful if I could persuade my DS100 to run reverse LAT.  D What happens when you create an LTA on VMS pointing to a port on the' server and try to copy something to it?Y  ? It's been a long time since I had a DS100, but I did use it fordF reverse-LAT. I just don't remember how to set a port for remote access' in DS100's subset of the DECserver CLI.e   -- i David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2002 18:04:50 -0700, From: jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekl= Message-ID: <89cc5656.0208271704.63f68e78@posting.google.com>v  U system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A1315C.FE064D03@SendSpamHere.ORG>...Tn > In article <89cc5656.0208270727.7bd7936b@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes: > >VP > >Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some undergradR > >on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to distinguishR > >between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seen theK > >postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aeP > >f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead of > >time? > K > ... and in unix you can determine if a directory is empty or if it existsr% > without knowing the path?  C'mon...o   if [ -d $EMPTY_DIR ]; then     echo "EMPTY_DIR exists"@ fi  C You'll notice that EMPTY_DIR is an environment variable whose exactr+ content I don't need to know ahead of time.s  / In DCL you get an "" if it exists but is empty.t1 In DCL you get an "" if it does NOT exist at all.x  D In unix I don't have to transform something like [foo.bar.baz] into . [foo.bar]baz.dir just to make the distinction.   Got it?i    Q > >The VMS folks are constantly harping that their beloved system is so superior.aM > >Maybe it is on a certain level.   You can design an airliner with superior-N > >engines and control systems and a cockpit layout that produces more fatigueQ > >and confusion.    So now planes crash due to pilot error instead of mechanicaln< > >failure.   But that's ok.   The plane is stilll superior. >  > unix troll alert!   E Poor reader alert.   This wasn't about the virtues of unix, but aboutu
 the doubleF standards of VMS weenies who make claims that are total nonsense.   At least C the Windows weenies have a point when they claim that theirs is the E most ubiquitous system.   Unix weenies have a point when they trumpeteE their development tools (I've never heard them claim that their OS is  the best as @ far as security and reliability).  Mac weenies have a point thatD grandma can use their system on the very first try.  VMS weenies, onC the other hand, often are like Mike Tyson claiming he's the world'sn; best figure skater because he can knock everyone senseless.a   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2002 20:45 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)i+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeky- Message-ID: <27AUG200220451223@gerg.tamu.edu>n  0 jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes...V }system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A1315C.FE064D03@SendSpamHere.ORG>...o }> In article <89cc5656.0208270727.7bd7936b@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes:l }> >Q }> >Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some undergrad S }> >on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to distinguishIS }> >between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seen theaL }> >postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aQ }> >f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead of-	 }> >time?  }>  L }> ... and in unix you can determine if a directory is empty or if it exists& }> without knowing the path?  C'mon... }  }if [ -d $EMPTY_DIR ]; then6 }    echo "EMPTY_DIR exists" }fie } D }You'll notice that EMPTY_DIR is an environment variable whose exact, }content I don't need to know ahead of time. } 0 }In DCL you get an "" if it exists but is empty.2 }In DCL you get an "" if it does NOT exist at all. } E }In unix I don't have to transform something like [foo.bar.baz] into  / }[foo.bar]baz.dir just to make the distinction.y }  }Got it?   $ Dir/NoOut 'empty_dir'  $ If $STATUS .EQ. %X1001c04a $ Then( $   Write Sys$Output "no such directory" $ Else* $   Write Sys$Output "''empty_dir' exists" $ EndIfe  F You can suppress the error message that the DIRECTORY command gives if8 you really want to, the $STATUS value will still be set.   Got it?t  ? In most cases, and this is true with most OSes with non-trivialt? security, the best way to find out if something will work is tot> try it and find out. If it works, it works. If it doesn't workC you will get a useful and informative error message (well, you willn@ if you are using VMS) and also have the information available toB you programatically as well so that the program can then correctly> handle the error. You might consider what happens in your Unix> example if the directory exists but is protected such that youB have no access to it. You may, or may not (I don't know), find outB that it exists but you still won't be able to, for example, create
 a file in it.s   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2002 20:58:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week 3 Message-ID: <4ba4ZwnGS6ez@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  l In article <89cc5656.0208271704.63f68e78@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes:W > system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A1315C.FE064D03@SendSpamHere.ORG>...   L >> ... and in unix you can determine if a directory is empty or if it exists& >> without knowing the path?  C'mon... >  > if [ -d $EMPTY_DIR ]; then >     echo "EMPTY_DIR exists"n > fi > E > You'll notice that EMPTY_DIR is an environment variable whose exacte- > content I don't need to know ahead of time.n > 1 > In DCL you get an "" if it exists but is empty. 3 > In DCL you get an "" if it does NOT exist at all.e  D No, perhaps _you_ do, but _I_ don't.  The f$parse() lexical functionD will accept the specification of any file that is or might be in the/ target directory (including the null filespec).n  @ And VMS has logical names and DCL symbols with the capability ofA the "environment variables" you think are so clever.  Perhaps younB were confused because those two mechanisms in VMS have a different+ name than the name used in Unix (or Linux).r  F > In unix I don't have to transform something like [foo.bar.baz] into 0 > [foo.bar]baz.dir just to make the distinction.  D Nor did my example in VMS.  I don't know how to program whichever ofD the various Unix command language environments you are using, but at least:   	1. I know what I do not know.   	2. I read the posts of others.s  	 > Got it?n   	Yes.  And you ?  6 > X-NEWS: eisner.encompasserve.org comp.os.vms: 242361 > Path: news.binc.net!kilgallena/ > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)/ > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms-Q > Subject: VMS as seen by a Unix (or Linux) fan (was: silliest thing heard this we" > Date: 27 Aug 2002 11:27:46 -0600 > Organization: LJK Software > Lines: 5915 > Message-ID: <yzffDbQeXo9s@eisner.encompasserve.org>yg > References: <+I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org> <89cc5656.0208270727.7bd7936b@posting.google.com>e- > NNTP-Posting-Host: eisner.encompasserve.orgmX > X-Trace: grandcanyon.binc.net 1030464630 1909 192.135.80.34 (27 Aug 2002 16:10:30 GMT)! > X-Complaints-To: abuse@binc.neto: > NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:10:30 +0000 (UTC)( > Xref: news.binc.net comp.os.vms:242361 > n > In article <89cc5656.0208270727.7bd7936b@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes: > M > > There's plenty of VMS boys like this as well.  I'm currently on a projecteP > > involving VMS, but the team is composed of two unix boys (myself and anotherO > > guy), three VMS boys, and one mainframe guy.   The VMS boys have shown somes > > incredible clueless-ness:p > > L > >     "Unix sucks because if you pull the plug on it, the machine comes up( > >      with a screwed up file system." > >   R > >     Apparently, about a decade ago he pulled the plug on a box and experiencedR > >     just such a problem.   So now he's convinced that this perceived advantageR > >     of VMS over unix exists not just at the moment, but forever after (this is > E > Since VMS avoided that problem from its inception 20 years ago, andrC > Unix is older than VMS, Unix will suffer from its past reputationeF > of instability, just as VMS will suffer from its reputation for past& > sins.  That is the way of the world. > P > >     another characteristic of the VMS boys I've met: they all think that all4 > >     other OS's are just standing still).  LittleN > >     does he realize that on a linux system, for example, if you choose theQ > >     journaled filesystem as an option when you install, the box comes up justa > >     fine after a power out.  > J > But we were talking about Unix.  Linux is not Unix.  Unix is a trademarkH > requiring a particular set of test be passed, and Linux has not passedG > those test.  Neither has VMS, but IBM's MVS _has_ passed those tests.lG > I believe MVS could legally be marketed as "Unix" today, but it would % > not be what IBM wants for branding.a > N > >     The project I'm currently on, unfortunately, involves learning what toS > >     do, and how to do it, by looking at the very poor and kludgy implementationdT > >     of our predecessors.   For some time now we've been stuck with doing massiveP > >     search-and-replaces on countless files.   For us unix boys, this entailsO > >     using perl, python, and kickass editors like VIM.   We've both offered tR > >     our scripts/techniques to the rest of the team.   But no.   "We're VMS andQ > >     we're superior".   It turns out that their global replace techniques were O > >     limited to replacing strings without looking at context.   VMS boy was aM > >     rather stunned when he realized that in perl you can specify regular pO > >     expressions like /\bthe\b/ so you can globally change "the" to whateverrM > >     without affecting words like "theater".   Now, maybe there's a nativeqG > >     VMS way of dealing with such problems, but I'm not aware of it.c > J > Does perl ship with all Unix implementations, or do you have to add it ?( > Certainly you can install perl on VMS. > Q > > Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some undergradnS > > on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to distinguish S > > between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seen the)L > > postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aQ > > f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead ofn	 > > time?( > E > I am not sure what you mean by "don't know the path ahead of time".p > " > 	IF F$PARSE(<filespec>) .NES. "" > + > will test for whether a directory exists.s >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:00:09 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekt' Message-ID: <3D6C33D5.D3145318@fsi.net>c   John Lewocz wrote: > [snip]O > Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some undergrad Q > on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to distinguishnQ > between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seen thelJ > postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aO > f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead ofr > time?n  ; $ PATH = F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DEVICE", "SYNTAX_ONLY" ) + -w1 F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DIRECTORY", "SYNTAX_ONLY" )e$ $ IF F$PARSE( PATH ) .EQS. "" THEN -3 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Path does not exist - ", PATH    ...or...  ( $ IF F$PARSE( filespec ) .EQS. "" THEN -3 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Path does not exist - ", PATHa  E ...will work just as well to identify non-existant directories. Emptyp' directories are also easily identified:p  ; $ PATH = F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DEVICE", "SYNTAX_ONLY" ) + -t1 F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DIRECTORY", "SYNTAX_ONLY" )n! $ IF	F$PARSE( filespec ) .EQS. "", $ THEN3 $	WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Path does not exist - ", PATHn $	EXIT a $ ENDIFe $ SRC_FSP := 'PATH'*.*;*! $ IF	F$SEARCH( SRC_FSP ) .EQS. ""n $ THEN2 $	WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Directory is empty - ", PATH $	EXIT $ ENDIFn  P > The VMS folks are constantly harping that their beloved system is so superior." > Maybe it is on a certain level.   G The right tool for the job is always a subjective judgement. Some folksDF can finagle(sp?) Phillips head screws with a suitablY sized flat-bladeH screw driver - not that you should, but that getS back to the difference1 between what can be done and what should be done.   + >  You can design an airliner with superiorcM > engines and control systems and a cockpit layout that produces more fatigue P > and confusion.    So now planes crash due to pilot error instead of mechanical; > failure.   But that's ok.   The plane is stilll superior.p  F Hhmmm... Sounds like you've been in the Air Force at some time in your1 life, or you've flown certain older Beechcraft...    -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems, http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2002 19:26:48 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeka= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0208271826.5448a043@posting.google.com>4   "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote in message news:<2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B80F@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>...K > Stupid question - if you dont know the path ahead of time, then how would J > you EVER check for a dir existence or wether or not it's empty?  I'm not > seeing your point.    E I think what he means is: How would you write code that would converth8 an argument containing an arbitrary dir-spec of the form( [bozo.the.clown] to the appropriate form  f$search("[bozo.the]clown.dir")?  ; Well, you could, but that's the hard way, and very much noto4 recommended. What you need here is F$PARSE! Example:  *     $ EXISTS = F$PARSE("[BOZO.THE.CLOWN]")  ? If EXISTS is true, then the directory exists. If it's false, itn doesn't!  * For the case of the "unknown directory":         $ EXISTS = F$PARSE(P1)  E where P1 is a symbol whose value is the "unknown directory". Piece o'. cake!t    ; > (fyi Perl is available for VMS and works pretty well too)- >  > -----Original Message-----C > From: jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl [mailto:jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl] s  > Sent: August 27, 2002 11:28 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml- > Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekt >  > : > frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie) wrote in message1 > news:<+I7ZYCEnda4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>...oJ > > You guys will find this amusing.  I'm dating a guy who programs on theK > > Windoze platform.  (I know, but he's a sweet guy anyway.)  We talk shopc
 >  alot.  L > > The other day he floored me by implying that my VMS systems couldn't run >  100 nJ > > users.  The last time he used VMS was back in college on some old slow >  machine.n > > A > > 	I can't wait to tie his butt up, plop him down in front of am >  terminale* > > and teach him what a REAL computer is. > > ( > > 	...  can't run 100 users... sheesh. > K > There's plenty of VMS boys like this as well.  I'm currently on a projectyN > involving VMS, but the team is composed of two unix boys (myself and anotherM > guy), three VMS boys, and one mainframe guy.   The VMS boys have shown some- > incredible clueless-ness:,    [...]2  :A >     "Unix tools have nothing to offer.   We've got everything."j     No one has everything. -    L >     The project I'm currently on, unfortunately, involves learning what toB >     do, and how to do it, by looking at the very poor and kludgy > implementationJ >     of our predecessors.   For some time now we've been stuck with doing	 > massive N >     search-and-replaces on countless files.   For us unix boys, this entailsM >     using perl, python, and kickass editors like VIM.   We've both offered tL >     our scripts/techniques to the rest of the team.   But no.   "We're VMS > andcJ >     we're superior".   It turns out that their global replace techniques > wereM >     limited to replacing strings without looking at context.   VMS boy was tK >     rather stunned when he realized that in perl you can specify regular AM >     expressions like /\bthe\b/ so you can globally change "the" to whateverRK >     without affecting words like "theater".   Now, maybe there's a native@K >     VMS way of dealing with such problems, but I'm not aware of it.   But5L >     neither are the highly experienced users I'm surrounded with.   So nowN >     a process that could have taken a month with a small chance of error has5 >     now taken many more months with far more chaos.n    @ OK, so if all computers ever had to do was to replace a bunch ofA "the"'s in context, then you are right. But there is much more to  computing than that!    E > Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by someb > undergrad]E > on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to'
 > distinguish M > between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seenm > theiJ > postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aL > f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead > of > time?r    
 See above.     [...]      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman + afeldmanNONOspam gfigroupNONOspam NOcomSpamy   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:09:52 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeko' Message-ID: <3D6C361C.D1EABDD5@fsi.net>c   John Lewocz wrote: > [SNIP]G >     Confuse cockpits and engines?   I don't think I do.   But they'ren > bothD >     essential elements of the "flight system".   If you're missing > eitherF >     one, your "system" will crash and burn just the same.   Most VMS > boys# >     I've met just don't see that.i  F Then again, some of us "VMS Boys" view UN*X that way: an "engine" thatH is elegant in its own way married to a somewhat fragile airframe, with a/ a control system spawned in the bowels of hell.m  H I have long been of the opinion that UN*X + ASTs + QIO + ODS + RMS + DCLC would make a moderately usable o.s. that would be at least somewhat E source-code compatible, if perhaps only at the 3GL level (excluding CIF and its variants) and then only if you don't do a lot of system calls.H If it ran on IA32 it would still be better than the VMS-IA32 we have now (i.e., it does not exist).   -- S David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:14:02 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week ' Message-ID: <3D6C371A.709521C7@fsi.net>w   JF Mezei wrote:l >  > re: Unix vsersus VMS debate. > L > Would it be fair to state that while Unix may be more vserstile and packedJ > with more ticks, VMS is more robust, better quality, better documented ? > L > (I was going to say "works as advertised", but that would mean VMS doesn't( > work since they never advertise it :-)  0 I'd like to nominate that for Quote of the Year!   -- i David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:33:15 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekx, Message-ID: <3D6C3664.7848D4EB@videotron.ca>  - re: finding out if a directory exists or not..  0 IF F$parse("$disk4:[startrek]*.*",,,,) .EQS. ""  then e- 		write sys$output "Directory does not exist"  else- 	IF F$SEARCH("$disk4:[startrek]*.*") .eqs. ""n 	then ' 		write sys$output "Directory is empty"e 	else 9 		write sys$output "Directory contains at least one file"s 	endif endifl  L OK, so perhaps one can do the above in a shorter form, but it can be done in VMS. (at least 7.2 on VAX)  & HELP LEX F$PARSE and HELP LEX F$SEARCH   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:43:27 GMT$1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeka' Message-ID: <3D6C3DFB.64462657@fsi.net>E   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote in message news:<2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B80F@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>...M > > Stupid question - if you dont know the path ahead of time, then how wouldwL > > you EVER check for a dir existence or wether or not it's empty?  I'm not > > seeing your point. > G > I think what he means is: How would you write code that would convertg: > an argument containing an arbitrary dir-spec of the form* > [bozo.the.clown] to the appropriate form" > f$search("[bozo.the]clown.dir")? > = > Well, you could, but that's the hard way, and very much nott6 > recommended. What you need here is F$PARSE! Example: > , >     $ EXISTS = F$PARSE("[BOZO.THE.CLOWN]")   Careful there!  @ DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say """", f$parse( "[bozo.the.clown]" ), """" ""< DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say """", f$parse( "[.exe.alpha]" ), """" "DKA0:[DDACHTERA.EXE.ALPHA].;"? DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ if f$parse( "[.exe.alpha]" ) then say "Yes!"o DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ 9  A You'll have to test for whether or not F$PARSE() returns an empty. string:L  G DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ if f$parse( "[.exe.alpha]" ) .eqs. "" then say "No!"EI DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ if f$parse( "[.exe.alpha]" ) .nes. "" then say "Yes!" i Yes! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ x   -- > David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/Y   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:46:53 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: Simple clusterD' Message-ID: <3D6C30BA.D984A035@fsi.net>a   Ed Wilts wrote:  > ~ > "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in message news:<OF81D5D9BD.634A99EC-ON07256C1B.0061F8C2@rsc.raytheon.com>... > > Cluster experts: > > M > > All this talk about updating a system shadow volume got me thinking.  I'mtJ > > trying to imagine the simplest (and cheapest) redundant Alpha cluster. > > Will this work?h > >wO > > Two Alphas on Ethernet and each has a disk.  The two disks make up a systemrG > > shadow volume.  Each Alpha has a vote.  Is a quorum disk necessary?  > E > As others have responded, this won't work.  With 2 systems having 1 E > vote each, quorum is 2 ((n+1)/2).  If one system crashes, the otherd	 > hangs. n   2+1=3s) 3/2=1 (integer math, remainder truncated)w   Therefore, quorum = 1, right?   < > You'd be better off giving one system 2 votes and having a4 > 50/50 chance that you'd be up if a system crashes.   What did I miss?   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:13:03 -0600n$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Simple clusterc) Message-ID: <3D6C3FBF.D0D8BD08@cha.ab.ca>4  } I'm at home and can't consult the VMS documentation.  However, I seem to recall that to calculate quorum, you do not drop the ; remainder.  Rather you round up to the next higher integer.2   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Ed Wilts wrote:b > >e > > "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in message news:<OF81D5D9BD.634A99EC-ON07256C1B.0061F8C2@rsc.raytheon.com>... > > > Cluster experts: > > >gO > > > All this talk about updating a system shadow volume got me thinking.  I'myL > > > trying to imagine the simplest (and cheapest) redundant Alpha cluster. > > > Will this work?o > > >tQ > > > Two Alphas on Ethernet and each has a disk.  The two disks make up a system I > > > shadow volume.  Each Alpha has a vote.  Is a quorum disk necessary?  > >iG > > As others have responded, this won't work.  With 2 systems having 1 G > > vote each, quorum is 2 ((n+1)/2).  If one system crashes, the othera
 > > hangs. >d > 2+1=3 + > 3/2=1 (integer math, remainder truncated)  >b > Therefore, quorum = 1, right?  >s> > > You'd be better off giving one system 2 votes and having a6 > > 50/50 chance that you'd be up if a system crashes. >v > What did I miss? >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemse > http://www.djesys.com/ >f* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   -- Lee   ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authoritye? Email: lytmah@cha.ab.ca            Information Systems, RAH CSCl4 Phone:  (780) 477-4725, 477-4233   10240 Kingsway NW? Fax:      (780) 491-5119, 491-5619    Edmonton, AB, CAN  T5H3V9    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:20:07 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>rA Subject: Re: Size of I/O count fields in SHOW PROC and SHOW SYS ?U' Message-ID: <3D6C3883.C74FA16A@fsi.net>l   Tim Shoppa wrote:s > R > Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> wrote in message news:<3D6A0119.3AFCB1D4@hp.com>... > > Tim, > > J > > There is not much extra space in $SHOW SYSTEM, however $SHOW PROC/CONT > > has a lot of extra space > > in the Direct I/O field. > K > I don't think there's a need for more than one extra digit; on a VAX (and G > I believe on an Alpha too) the GETJPI service returns "only" a 32-bit @ > integer for the I/O count.  So all we need is one extra digit. > K > Really naive question: does anything bad happen (to the process or to thehJ > system) when the I/O count exceeds the capacity of 32 bits?  I'd hate toL > shut down the subway just to restart the application.  Maybe I'll not only? > escalate this to get an answer but also test this out myself.h  D Interesting question. I would expect it to just quietly overflow andH roll back around to zero like DCL does in the following, but that may be a brash assumption:t  ! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = %xffffffff ( DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$fao( "!UL", a )
 4294967295 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ show sym a .   A = -1   Hex = FFFFFFFF  Octal = 37777777777 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = a + 1( DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$fao( "!UL", a ) 0t DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ show sym ao-   A = 0   Hex = 00000000  Octal = 00000000000d   -- a David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:08:37 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>y* Subject: Re: Sounds like INS needs VMS ...I Message-ID: <FgWa9.22384$6m61.22143@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 news:bRNa9.35902$_91.785@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...  >  > K > Indeed they do. But like most US Gummint agencies, they use Windoze crap. L > Only the Dog-eating Heathen Chinee are smart enough to use Alpha and UNIX. >   E Wait until the gov't. has to deal with the 2038 problem for every appe- written in C that uses the standard <date.h>.n  I Some apps will be hitting the wall now, eg. things that compute forecasts4H out 30+ years. A huge number will have to be man-handled between now andI 2008 to deal with the effects of 30-year government bonds, and then a lot- more as time marches on.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2002 22:26:33 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance3 Message-ID: <An71TZFy4HpG@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  U In article <MtUa9.24549$1r.8500721@twister.nyc.rr.com>, Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com writes:p@ > In comp.unix.solaris Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:W >>   mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote in message news:<akd35c$84f$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>...d/ >>  > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:RO >>  > : for those who want 99.9 non-clustered, or a cluster that is years aheadTA >>  > : of everything else, please read, hint: it is not unix ...s >>  >   Q >>  > : http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pdf  >>  > R >>  > You're a joke in comp.os.vms Bob & now you're trolling in comp.unix.solaris? >>  > < >>  > Did Andrew Harrison call your mother fat or something? >>  > Get a life.  >>  >  >>  > D. >>   A@ >>   sorry, OpenVMS is no joke, just ask the two firms that were& >>   running it 9/11 and stayed up ... > ) > Excluding Cantor Fitzgerald, of course.t >   @ 	Nope.  One of the successes actually.  More than two firms too.  e http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=LkbH%24zf1ftlo%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain(    E 	How about never really went down , in some cases.  Cantor Fitzgeraldn> 	for instance.  Manhattan and local ops were a mess but Europe 	and Asia kept trading:a  D http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D701%2526a%253D17239,00.asp  ; "All the data and software was mirrored to Rochelle Park," r< [New Jersey - across the Hudson] said Noviello, adding that E the facility was established as a full-fledged data center, not just  F a recovery site, in February. Many Rochelle Park systems are primary, E as well as backup. [load balanced nodes across the cluster no doubt -.E I don't know that as a fact but that is the way it is genrally done]"/   ...f  M The north tower impact took out eSpeed's operations on the 103rd floor, which-I included some 250 Compaq Computer Corp. and Sun Microsystems Inc. servers0/ running Windows NT, Alpha/OpenVMS and Solaris. i   ---n  1 "When one corner [World Trade Center] went down, 59 we never stopped trading," Kiewel said. "The system kept a! functioning in Europe and Asia." e   ---2   				RobC  B Men with walkie-talkies                 I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights wavin'             You know it makes me wonderoG Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savings        Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil Youngi   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 05:01:40 GMTt From: Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.coml6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance7 Message-ID: <UOYa9.25020$1r.8698178@twister.nyc.rr.com>P  A In comp.unix.solaris Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote:I  >  Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com writes:C >  > In comp.unix.solaris Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:r >  >>   C >  >>   sorry, OpenVMS is no joke, just ask the two firms that were ) >  >>   running it 9/11 and stayed up ...  >  > f, >  > Excluding Cantor Fitzgerald, of course. >   D >   	Nope.  One of the successes actually.  More than two firms too.  % It was just meant to be a grim crack.   : Cantor had only one office in Manhattan, its headquarters.  i >   http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=LkbH%24zf1ftlo%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplainsI >   	How about never really went down , in some cases.  Cantor Fitzgerald B >   	for instance.  Manhattan and local ops were a mess but Europe >   	and Asia kept trading:s >   H >   http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D701%2526a%253D17239,00.asp >   ? >   "All the data and software was mirrored to Rochelle Park," h@ >   [New Jersey - across the Hudson] said Noviello, adding that I >   the facility was established as a full-fledged data center, not just tJ >   a recovery site, in February. Many Rochelle Park systems are primary, I >   as well as backup. [load balanced nodes across the cluster no doubt - I >   I don't know that as a fact but that is the way it is genrally done]"s  I OpenVMS, as the article indicated, was just one of many types of systems.n  J The article also points out eSpeed was completely moved into Rochelle ParkG by Feb 2001, and that having DS 3's was the enabler of everything else.e  = If "Rochelle Park systems are primary as well as backup" then': they were not an example of "Disaster Tolerance" for 9/11.   --   Missing VA girl Jennifer Short!h3 Picture of and info on Gary "Amber Alert!" Burnore:r8     http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/childmolester.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:17:50 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Various tidbits about HP financials, Message-ID: <3D6C4EE1.B049EE8E@videotron.ca>   From Dow Jones:uN PALO ALTO, Calif. -- Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ) posted a hefty net loss for itsI fiscal third quarter on massive charges related to its May acquisition oflT Compaq Computer Corp., while sales for the period fell shy of Wall Street forecasts.  N   For the quarter ended July 31, H-P late Tuesday reported a net loss of $2.03K billion, or 67 cents a share, compared with a year-earlier net loss of $116,L million, or four cents a share. The year-earlier results include the results3 of Compaq as if the merger had already taken place.y  F   Revenue fell 11% to $16.54 billion from $18.58 billion. Analysts hadL expected revenue of $16.7 billion. Imaging and printing-systems revenue roseI 9.7% to $ 4.73 billion, while personal-systems  revenue -- which includesoK computers -- slumped 19% to $4.77 billion, as consumer PC revenue fell 20%.   K   Enterprise-systems revenue, which includes servers, declined 22% to $3.75"N billion, and services revenue slipped 7% to $2.98 billion on weaker consulting and integration demand.b   <...>y  E As of July 31, the company had reduced its work force by nearly 4,740xL positions, and H-P said it is on track to hit its goal of 10,000 job cuts by) the time its fiscal year ends in October.h     From an HP press release:a  K - Reduced facilities square footage by 2% in third quarter and on track for  targeted 19% reduction by 2004.d   ENTERPRISE SYSTEMS g0 (note lack of mention of VMS, Tru64 and Tandem).5 (note switch from positive profit to negative profit)m    L   The enterprise systems segment includes a broad range of IT infrastructureM systems and  solutions for business, including UNIX(R), Linux and Windows(R)-SH based servers, multi-platform  storage and management software. CombinedJ company revenue in this segment declined 8% sequentially and 22% year overM year to $3.8 billion. This reflects continued weakness in global IT spending, ; aggressive competitive discounting and product transitions.n  L   Overall, business-critical servers revenue was down 31% over last year andJ down 13% sequentially. Industry-standard servers revenue was down 18% overM last year and down 4% sequentially. Revenue in storage was down 15% year over J year, less than half the decline of HP's  nearest competitor, and down 10%R sequentially. Revenue in software was down 21% year over year and 5% sequentially.  M   Highlights included continued strong Superdome adoption, up 9% sequentiallylK in unit shipments; the 17th quarter of Linux market-share leadership for HP G ProLiant servers; and announcement of  a strategic partnership with BEA K Systems for middleware solutions. Key customer wins included:  selection bywF Kookmin Bank in Korea of HP Superdome servers and storage to support aH consolidated Internet banking system; a joint $200 million contract withK Reuters, Intel and Red Hat to make Reuters Market Data Systems available on1N Linux; and with partner Lockheed Martin, a $70 million contract with Air ForceC Material Command for technical services and data storage solutions.d  L   Combined company operating margin was negative 11.2%, compared to negativeH 5.7% last quarter and positive 0.4% a year ago for the combined company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:26:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r0 Subject: Re: Various tidbits about HP financials, Message-ID: <3D6C5103.A0150E57@videotron.ca>  M Seems to me that based on those financials that HP,s revenus dropped far more M than had been anticipated. If I remember well, HP was predicting a 9% drop inRA enterprise systems. I think it was a 31% drop that was announced.v  N Yes, the economy isn't doing well and IT spending is low (confirmed by Intel'sI CEO as well). But I get the feeling that "the new HP" isn't going to be asJ combination of HP, Compaq, Digital and Tandem as was anticipated. Just howN much will HP grow from its acquisition of Compaq Digital and Tandem is the bigN question. I suspect that HP has simply acquired the leftovers from Digital and= Tande, with not much from Compaq contributing to HP's growth.2  M (Compaq's wintel may replace HP's wintel, but in the end, the new HP's wintel-$ may not be much bigger than before).  M Also interesting is the mention of 10,000 layoffs when in the past 15,000 washN the announced number. Does anyone have some explanation ? Has HP realised thatJ it wouldn't be able to rationalise its workforce as much as it had hoped ?   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2002 02:41:41 +0100( From: joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher), Subject: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK8 Message-ID: <3d6c29b9.9770459@news1.uncensored-news.com>  
 Hi people,  E Is there anywhere in the UK where I can get an MMJ cable made up to aoE required lengh. I have a 10ft cable and a very very long cable and noi: inbetween ones which is what I need (15ft would be ideal).  A I found a USA site and will order from there but just wondered if,! there is anythnig nearer to home.m   Thanks,  Joem      F ______________________________________________________________________R Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comK       <><><><><><><>   The Worlds Uncensored News Source   <><><><><><><><>"      ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:24:01 -0400.* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>0 Subject: Re: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK/ Message-ID: <3D6C0A11.14151.15CEBCF3@localhost>C  ) On 28 Aug 2002 at 2:41, Herb Asher wrote:tE > Is there anywhere in the UK where I can get an MMJ cable made [...]"C > I found a USA site and will order from there but just wondered ift# > there is anythnig nearer to home.e  E I can make you a cable if you pay for the shipping, plus a couple of o/ bucks (the ends are almost $1 each these days).   
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-3 16711 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147D= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com9   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 02 07:21:27 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)iB Subject: White Paper on DT clustering - VMS as the "Gold Standard") Message-ID: <cGCAVv6CmpRo@elias.decus.ch>l  7 White Paper from Illuminata on DT Clustering in various : Unix flavours (emphasis on OpenVMS as the "Gold Standard")  H White paper comparing clustering techniques in the light of DT (Disaster Tolerance).h   L > http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pdf    I found this a good read.t __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandg   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:42:19 GMTq1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o+ Subject: Re: XFC patch for VMS 7.3 is up...e' Message-ID: <3D6C2FAA.E53B36AF@fsi.net>    Ed Wilts wrote:  > f > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<akdvoc$pfq$7@web1.cup.hp.com>... > I > >   Please review the extended file naming documentation in the OpenVMS H > >   manual set.  There are cases where existing code can have specificI > >   assumptions that are broken by ODS-5.  (I've one local package that'B > >   is tied into ODS-2 syntax far more tightly than I'd prefer.) > H > I've still got one *VERY* useful utility hanging around - Joe Meadows'F > FIND utility - that barfs on ODS-5.  Anybody seen a newer version ofA > it?  I don't think that Joe has done any VMS work in eons.  The.= > version I've got was ported from VAX to AXP by N. R. Arnot,F > NRA@UK.AC.KCL.PH.IPG  D Does FIND do anything that DFU doesn't? I've never looked at FIND. IH thought that an ODS-5 version of DFU had come out, but not sure just now and didn't look yet.   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsk http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.473 ************************have responded, this won't work.  With 2 systems having 1 G > > vote each, quoru 㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    	㧪    
㧪    㧪    㧪    
㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪     㧪    !㧪    "㧪    #㧪    $㧪    %㧪    &㧪    '㧪    (㧪    )㧪    *㧪    +㧪    ,㧪    -㧪    .㧪    /㧪    0㧪    1㧪    2㧪    3㧪    4㧪    5㧪    6㧪    7㧪    8㧪    9㧪    :㧪    ;㧪    <㧪    =㧪    >㧪    ?㧪    @㧪    A㧪    B㧪    C㧪    D㧪    E㧪    F㧪    G㧪    H㧪    I㧪    J㧪    K㧪    L㧪    M㧪    N㧪    O㧪    P㧪    Q㧪    R㧪    S㧪    T㧪    U㧪    V㧪    W㧪    X㧪    Y㧪    Z㧪    [㧪    \㧪    ]㧪    ^㧪    _㧪    `㧪    a㧪    b㧪    c㧪    d㧪    e㧪    f㧪    g㧪    h㧪    i㧪    j㧪    k㧪    l㧪    m㧪    n㧪    o㧪    p㧪    q㧪    r㧪    s㧪    t㧪    u㧪    v㧪    w㧪    x㧪    y㧪    z㧪    {㧪    |㧪    }㧪    ~㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    㧪    