1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 29 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 476       Contents: RE: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article3 RE: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ? 3 Re: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ? 3 RE: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ? P Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP Software suP Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP SoftwarP Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP SoftwarP Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP Softwar banner displayed Re: banner displayed Re: banner displayed Re: banner displayed Re: banner displayed Re: banner displayed Re: Calling Nic Clews ...  Re: Calling Nic Clews ...  Re: Calling Nic Clews ... > Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3> Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3> Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3> Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3> RE: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3> Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3C Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree? G Re: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree? G Re: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree? ( Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File help( Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File help( Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File help( Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File help  Re: How to configure DECNet-plus  Re: How to configure DECNet-plus  RE: How to use jar under OpenVMS  HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works. Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?. Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?. Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly HPETS Discount Deadlines. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. RE: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?. Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?1 just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application  Re: Low-level format SCSI disk Re: MATCHC Instruction Re: Old games for VAX system.  Re: Old games for VAX system.  Re: re white boxen Re: re white boxen Re: re white boxen" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster RE: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Simple cluster Re: Telnet Port  Re: Telnet Port - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance 1 Re: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance 1 RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance 1 RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance 1 Re: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance 5 Re: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance ' Re: Various tidbits about HP financials # Re: VMS 7.3-1 Doc set... plain jane & watchdog V2.1 and Console Manager V2.2 Where are fonts on VMS systems? # Re: Where are fonts on VMS systems? ' Re: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK ' Re: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK $ Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:17:41 +0100 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: RE: "inview" Article M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E8ED@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>    <snip>G :> Still figuring out what the hell to do with the coin. Is it for use  J :> with one of the coin-operated "market research" firms? If so, how many : :> wonderful things will they say for one piece of silver? :>  J :I am stumped myself. It's definitely too light to use in a parking meter,I snack machine, or similar. I might :mount it on the side of my monitor at  work.   F It works a treat to stop a wobbly VT with a missing rubber foot.......   Andrew R   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:07:44 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: "inview" Article ; Message-ID: <01KLVB5UGNPE9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   L > > Ok, here it is. I have authorization from the top to issue this check .. > >  > >   /  > > \/ > 8 > Maybe I should have asked for a Czech instead. Blonde.  I Reminds me of one of my candidates for the all-time greatest pun.  After  F discussing an upcoming tennis match in Australia between Pat Cash and G Ivan Lendl, the sportscaster---summing things up as sportscasters do in E what is usually just an attempt at wit as the last sentence of their  H report---wondered who would win with the great phrase "Will it be Cash,  or a Czech?"   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 07:46:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 3 Message-ID: <jrWM2ix$wx0i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <tSab9.15687$GK2.10375@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > 8 > Maybe I should have asked for a Czech instead. Blonde. >   )    He might not have been to your liking.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:56:13 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: "inview" Article I Message-ID: <1Kpb9.127612$8aG1.5989@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:jrWM2ix$wx0i@eisner.encompasserve.org... J > In article <tSab9.15687$GK2.10375@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > > : > > Maybe I should have asked for a Czech instead. Blonde. > >  > + >    He might not have been to your liking.     
 Probably not.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:11:44 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> < Subject: RE: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ?K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA50@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   B But if you butcher regular modular jacks that way, they have this ; annoying tendency to "come-aloose" [to use a Southern U.S.   technocolloquialism]    E One solution suggested was to use cynoacrylate glue, with appropriate A care taken to not cover the metal pins, to affix them into their   respective jacks.    :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----% From: "dins" [mailto:$USER@127.0.0.1] ( Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:10 PM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" < Subject: RE: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ?    J In article <3d6cfbc5.8839069@news1.uncensored-news.com>, Herb Asher wrote: > G > Thanks I did not realise they were that widely available. I'm used to   > people fighting over them. :O) >  > Thanks again,  >  > E In a pinch regular modular phone jacks with the tabs broken off work. + http://www.connectworld.net/connectors.html E http://molt.zdv.uni-mainz.de/doc_link/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixasync/asycom  gd/figures/asyco47.jpg3 might also be useful.  Won't lock in but will work.    cheers,    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:05:54 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org< Subject: Re: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ?) Message-ID: <02082911055424@antinode.org>   % From: "dins" [mailto:$USER@127.0.0.1] G > In a pinch regular modular phone jacks with the tabs broken off work.   E    If one is not entirely inept, it's possible to attack the tab on a H non-MMJ with a cutting tool (such as an Approximate-O knife) and leave aG slender (and thus somewhat fragile) reduced tab which latches much more  effectively than none.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:35:50 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> < Subject: RE: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ?K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA54@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   @ Most outlandish excuse for using/buying a Dremel tool that I've  seen so far...   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----2 From: "sms@antinode.org" [mailto:sms@antinode.org]( Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:05 PM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" < Subject: RE: anyone have a source for MMJ cables in the UK ?    % From: "dins" [mailto:$USER@127.0.0.1] G > In a pinch regular modular phone jacks with the tabs broken off work.   E    If one is not entirely inept, it's possible to attack the tab on a H non-MMJ with a cutting tool (such as an Approximate-O knife) and leave aG slender (and thus somewhat fragile) reduced tab which latches much more  effectively than none.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 06:43:32 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP Software su @ Message-ID: <20020829134332.17641.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>  3 After our migration from the Alphaserver 4100 (EV5) / to a ES-40 (EV6) we applied about three patches / for Oracle RDB and three patches for Cobol 2.7.   / What mess... the Cobol programs were generating   bad results in some calcules....  3 The Oracle RDB was giving us bad selects results...  and some bugchecks too.   0 Ok, it is all correct now, but I am afraid about& the OpenVMS Itanium portability now...  3 May be HP/Oracle shoul create an OpenVMS Task Force . to port all the software. Everybody know about0 the bad quality of developers nowadays. So it is3 becoming much more rare to find a good profesional,  with OSes background.      Regards    FC  1 --- Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: 0 > bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > 1 > > In article <87d6s8b0fd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, 3 > > 	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  > 2 > > > "Ah, hell, I thought I fixed that!" Well, it > turns out he had, 4 > > > then there was an unfix added the next day. It > was specific to an! > > > 11/44 with 128MB of memory.  >   , > > Wow.  Sure wish I could put that into my > 11/44's......   :-)  > 3 > :( Thats what comes about grumbling about 16MB of  > memory on a single3 > BI board, instead of 16K in a DD like god and Ken 
 > intended...  >  > --  0 > Paul Repacholi                               1 > Crescent Rd., . > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           > Kalamunda.3 >                                              West  > Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.2 > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has > been, always will be.      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes  http://finance.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:04:08 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) Y Subject: Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP Softwar = Message-ID: <YBrb9.371503$q53.12224977@twister.austin.rr.com>   / Fabio Cardoso (fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br) wrote:  : 5 : May be HP/Oracle shoul create an OpenVMS Task Force 0 : to port all the software. Everybody know about2 : the bad quality of developers nowadays. So it is5 : becoming much more rare to find a good profesional,  : with OSes background.  :  : . Such a task force better be ready to travel...  3    http://www.siliconindia.com/tech/tech_pgtwo.asp? "    newsno=16261&newscat=Technology-    Oracle opens technology park in Bangalore       	    [snip]   H   "Oracles India Development Centres develop every product of the OracleD    products family from the database, tools, application servers and>    e-business applications. This involves development, productB    management, maintenance, quality engineering, documentation and    release."      3    http://www.siliconindia.com/tech/tech_pgtwo.asp? "    newsno=16253&newscat=Technology2    Oracle gungho about Indian intellectual capital  F   "...Oracle's focus on India and China is for two different reasons. I    Its Indian operations would provide products and services for a global G    market. The centers in China are mainly for localization of products     and marketing within China.  	    [snip]   I    "Forty percent of research and development across the world is done by C    Asians and a vast majority of them are Indians. There is a clear C    relation between quality software and Asians," Williams said..."     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:30:06 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP Softwar @ Message-ID: <20020829163006.59755.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>   The return of the PDP   O http://www.sanyo.com/business/presentation/downloads/plasma_displays/PDP-32.jpg    Regards    FC     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes  http://finance.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:46:29 -0400 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>Y Subject: Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was (Re: High quality of HP Softwar ) Message-ID: <3D6E5DF5.9070504@oracle.com>   1 how many of these patches were not available from 2 compaq or hp when you started your upgrade (ie, if, you had installed the latest software in the1 first place, would you have had the problems that 1 you experienced)?  finding bugs in 'old' software 4 isn't exactly an exiting event.  that's why software. vendors make patches, no?  to provide fixes to problems that have been found.  1 no software is perfect (in my experience anyhow). / but Oracle and, (by examination and experience) 5 HP/COMPAQ/DEC work very hard to find and fix problems  as 'effectively' as possible.    Fabio Cardoso wrote:  5 > After our migration from the Alphaserver 4100 (EV5) 1 > to a ES-40 (EV6) we applied about three patches 1 > for Oracle RDB and three patches for Cobol 2.7.  > 1 > What mess... the Cobol programs were generatingA" > bad results in some calcules.... > 5 > The Oracle RDB was giving us bad selects results...e > and some bugchecks too.v > 2 > Ok, it is all correct now, but I am afraid about( > the OpenVMS Itanium portability now... > 5 > May be HP/Oracle shoul create an OpenVMS Task Forceb0 > to port all the software. Everybody know about2 > the bad quality of developers nowadays. So it is5 > becoming much more rare to find a good profesional,h > with OSes background.e >  > 	 > RegardsM >  > FC e3 > --- Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:a > 0 >>bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >>0 >>>In article <87d6s8b0fd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,2 >>>	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >>>r0 >>>>"Ah, hell, I thought I fixed that!" Well, it >>>> >>turns out he had,  >>2 >>>>then there was an unfix added the next day. It >>>> >>was specific to an >> >>>>11/44 with 128MB of memory.  >>>> >> e >>+ >>>Wow.  Sure wish I could put that into myl >>>t >>11/44's......   :-)l >>3 >>:( Thats what comes about grumbling about 16MB ofo >>memory on a single3 >>BI board, instead of 16K in a DD like god and Kenp
 >>intended...  >> >>-- l0 >>Paul Repacholi                               1 >>Crescent Rd.,t. >>+61 (08) 9257-1001                           >>Kalamunda.3 >>                                             West  >>Australia 60760 >>Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.2 >>EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has >>been, always will be.i >> >  >  > =====e > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazill > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes  > http://finance.yahoo.com >      --  > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:45:39 +0900t& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> Subject: banner displayedi+ Message-ID: <akksfb$3gs$1@news1.kornet.net>r  J I would like to be able to display a security banner upon a user login.  IK created a file called "sec_banner" and would like to put it into systemwidem login soF everytime a user login, it will display 'sec_banner" file, wait for 20J seconds or until a user hit a key.   But I don't know how/where to put it.5 By the way, I am running VMS 7.1.2 on ES-40 computer.p Any helps would be appreciated.    Thanks   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:06:12 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>H Subject: Re: banner displayedl; Message-ID: <01KLVD17H8CO9QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  J > I would like to be able to display a security banner upon a user login. D > I created a file called "sec_banner" and would like to put it intoJ > systemwide login so everytime a user login, it will display 'sec_banner"I > file, wait for 20 seconds or until a user hit a key.   But I don't knowgB > how/where to put it. By the way, I am running VMS 7.1.2 on ES-40, > computer. Any helps would be appreciated.   D SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM seems to be the place for this.  Of course, H depending on when you actually want the message to appear, SYS$ANNOUNCE H and SYS$WELCOME might suffice---but you wanted the timeout and "hit any G key to continue".  Presumably, only during interactive logins, but you aE should have branching code to cover different types of logins anyway.a  C So, at the appropriate place in SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM, have this:a  H $  TYPE DEVICE:[DIRECTORY]SEC_BANNER.TXT ! replace with real location!!!@ $  READ/ERROR=OK/TIME_OUT=20/PROMPT="hit any key to continue " -    SYS$COMMAND USER_INPUTl $OK:   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:22:04 GMTc- From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr>e Subject: Re: banner displayedd1 Message-ID: <wtnb9.15$ub.199791@news.cpqcorp.net>S  1 "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> wrote in messager% news:akksfb$3gs$1@news1.kornet.net...iL > I would like to be able to display a security banner upon a user login.  IB > created a file called "sec_banner" and would like to put it into
 systemwide
 > login soH > everytime a user login, it will display 'sec_banner" file, wait for 20L > seconds or until a user hit a key.   But I don't know how/where to put it.7 > By the way, I am running VMS 7.1.2 on ES-40 computer.e! > Any helps would be appreciated.  >m > Thanks   Helloa  8 Check the use  of the logical sys$welcome, in the doc at (url may wrap)L http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6017/6017pro_013.html#index_x_872   Regardsh   Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:18:18 GMT" From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGh Subject: Re: banner displayedi0 Message-ID: <00A132B4.B6351E88@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <01KLVD17H8CO9QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iK >> I would like to be able to display a security banner upon a user login. iE >> I created a file called "sec_banner" and would like to put it into K >> systemwide login so everytime a user login, it will display 'sec_banner"@J >> file, wait for 20 seconds or until a user hit a key.   But I don't knowC >> how/where to put it. By the way, I am running VMS 7.1.2 on ES-40 - >> computer. Any helps would be appreciated.   >cE >SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM seems to be the place for this.  Of course, cI >depending on when you actually want the message to appear, SYS$ANNOUNCE rI >and SYS$WELCOME might suffice---but you wanted the timeout and "hit any eH >key to continue".  Presumably, only during interactive logins, but you F >should have branching code to cover different types of logins anyway. >cD >So, at the appropriate place in SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM, have this: > I >$  TYPE DEVICE:[DIRECTORY]SEC_BANNER.TXT ! replace with real location!!!gA >$  READ/ERROR=OK/TIME_OUT=20/PROMPT="hit any key to continue " -  >   SYS$COMMAND USER_INPUT >$OK:e  E Be certain to test for interactive logins and output this banner only5F for interactive logins.  I've encountered this sort of message and de-D lay at many sites and, if improperly implemented, it can reek havok  with other types of logins.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" :   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:31:46 +0100 (MET).9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r Subject: Re: banner displayed0; Message-ID: <01KLVE5OSX729QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  G > Be certain to test for interactive logins and output this banner only H > for interactive logins.  I've encountered this sort of message and de-F > lay at many sites and, if improperly implemented, it can reek havok  > with other types of logins.-   Right, which is why I wrote:  6 > Presumably, only during interactive logins, but you G > should have branching code to cover different types of logins anyway.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:52:15 +0000 (UTC)g- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)s Subject: Re: banner displayedo. Message-ID: <akl1tf$gm0$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes in article <01KLVD17H8CO9QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> dated Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:06:12 +0100 (MET):A >$  READ/ERROR=OK/TIME_OUT=20/PROMPT="hit any key to continue " -s >   SYS$COMMAND USER_INPUT  D Use of the phrase "any key" here is wishful thinking.  "Hit Enter to$ continue" would be less frustrating.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:43:56 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: Calling Nic Clews ...) Message-ID: <3D6DECDC.25C04005@127.0.0.1>t   Ford Prefect wrote:o > K > Is that Nic Clews of MCCLEWS, Systime running RSTS/E Vsomething.somethingdF > at B.I.H.E (around 1984), formerly proud owner of the loudest in-car > alarm (installed? > in a cavernous white Ford Cortina estate) that strategic arms-  > limitations treatises allowed? >  > ???0  * http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cortina.html  F MCLEWS was when I started in the Maths and Computing department, I gotC sectioned (quite rightly!) into CITS (crap information to students)pA department transferred from the electricals and became a CITSNIC. E EE12104 (CITSMARK) replaced me when I left for the next job, and he's  still there. So is BASIL.   C I *still* haven't written up the little stories of moving computingt/ equipment about, but there's a little taster atf& http://www.bolton.org.uk/comphist.html  G The siren in question was removed before the car went to its next proudhE owner (and probably scrapped) and before attempting fitting it to theiE successor, I tested it, and it let forth a squeak and a puff of smoke5H from the horn. It is bizarre now to think of the anti theft alarm systemA on it, when the vehicle itself was probably enough as a deterrent-F against theft. Not a comment about Cortinas in general, just the one I drove.  B Despite all this, I made a career in VMS systems. I still have car1 adventures even when attending (now) HP events as9E http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cpcharges.gif shows (hence the sig). Wee' now return you to normal programming...    -- s? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:36:21 GMTa' From: Ford Prefect <spam@microsoft.com>c" Subject: Re: Calling Nic Clews ..., Message-ID: <3D6D2629.6030703@microsoft.com>  & --------------0406070304070107010904059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedi Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Nic Clews wrote:   >Ford Prefect wrote: >  x >tK >>Is that Nic Clews of MCCLEWS, Systime running RSTS/E Vsomething.something F >>at B.I.H.E (around 1984), formerly proud owner of the loudest in-car >>alarm (installed? >>in a cavernous white Ford Cortina estate) that strategic arms(  >>limitations treatises allowed? >> >>???h >>     >> > + >http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cortina.htmlS >tG >MCLEWS was when I started in the Maths and Computing department, I gotaD >sectioned (quite rightly!) into CITS (crap information to students)B >department transferred from the electricals and became a CITSNIC.F >EE12104 (CITSMARK) replaced me when I left for the next job, and he's >still there. So is BASIL. >  g >u5 Yaaayy! It's the man 'imself.  Holy nostalgia batman!7  D >I *still* haven't written up the little stories of moving computing0 >equipment about, but there's a little taster at' >http://www.bolton.org.uk/comphist.htmlr >p  F Ach, Pete the non-beleiver. Actually I remember Pete writing a rather  neat MACRO programH to ... ahem ... back-up a user's keystrokes to file (or screen!) so one  could be sure that thyC users were not mere chimpanzees trying to write Shakespeare in the u" traditional (statistical) fashion.  F And Bob, laddie who foolishly gave me ALTPRI and then saw his systems  groundeth into theI holy digital dust as my badly written code sat in endless loops slurping n up all the CPU time D available in the known universe! One learneth a hard lesson and one  learneth not to trust thy + holy machines to an erstwhile brat like me!i  H >The siren in question was removed before the car went to its next proudF >owner (and probably scrapped) and before attempting fitting it to theF >successor, I tested it, and it let forth a squeak and a puff of smokeI >from the horn. It is bizarre now to think of the anti theft alarm system B >on it, when the vehicle itself was probably enough as a deterrentG >against theft. Not a comment about Cortinas in general, just the one I  >drove.y >    >gH I remember it. A fine vehicle, when you revved it a bit and dropped the   clutch at the lights. EspeciallyC in the rain. <scrrrrrrrrr> <squeak> <jump> <vroooooom> <crunch ---  	 possibly>   C >Despite all this, I made a career in VMS systems. I still have car 2 >adventures even when attending (now) HP events asF >http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cpcharges.gif shows (hence the sig). We( >now return you to normal programming... >= >  = >=F Normal Programming? I hope thou dost not meanest the microsloth virus  and it's "legitimate"pH ... um ... penetration into otherwise servicable desktop machines! Nuff  'o that.  I If you passest this bridge by me... answer ... um ... me these questions   three:  ? (i) who wast that blonde blue-eyed siren of Maths & Computing ?2  @ (ii) who wast thine master of Maths & Computing of that period ?  A (iii) what was the name of thine PDP11 (RSTS/E) system that thee R administreth with the utmosteth of care?   H (iv) What was the name of that rather spiffy club in the centre of town  that wasB the hip place to be --- just down the road from the p1nk panth3r ?  L (iv) Send thy bleedin' PGP key & email address (to: ryo@newyork.com and I'llH sendeth thee mine bleedin' PGP key & picture that we mayest converse on  these,E the holiest of matters involving falling-down water and very affable d young ladies.)   (v) Thankest thou muchly!c   ;)      & --------------040607030407010701090405) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciin Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">r <html> <head>   <title></title>a </head>o <body> Nic Clews wrote:<br>> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3D6DECDC.25C04005@127.0.0.1">"   <pre wrap="">Ford Prefect wrote:   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">Z     <pre wrap="">Is that Nic Clews of MCCLEWS, Systime running RSTS/E Vsomething.somethingD at B.I.H.E (around 1984), formerly proud owner of the loudest in-car alarm (installed= in a cavernous white Ford Cortina estate) that strategic arms  limitations treatises allowed?   ???e
     </pre>   </blockquote>e   <pre wrap=""><!----> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cortina.html">http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cortina.html</a>m  F MCLEWS was when I started in the Maths and Computing department, I gotC sectioned (quite rightly!) into CITS (crap information to students)dA department transferred from the electricals and became a CITSNIC. E EE12104 (CITSMARK) replaced me when I left for the next job, and he'sm still there. So is BASIL.-   </pre>
 </blockquote>2: Yaaayy! It's the man 'imself. &nbsp;Holy nostalgia batman!> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3D6DECDC.25C04005@127.0.0.1">   <pre wrap="">RC I *still* haven't written up the little stories of moving computingi/ equipment about, but there's a little taster atD <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bolton.org.uk/comphist.html">http://www.bolton.org.uk/comphist.html</a></pre>=
 </blockquote>  <br>J Ach, Pete the non-beleiver. Actually I remember Pete writing a rather neat MACRO program<br> M to ... ahem ... back-up a user's keystrokes to file (or screen!) so one could_ be sure that thy<br>N users were not mere chimpanzees trying to write Shakespeare in the traditional (statistical) fashion.<br> <br>O And Bob, laddie who foolishly gave me ALTPRI and then saw his systems groundeth  into the<br>H holy digital dust as my badly written code sat in endless loops slurping up all the CPU time<br>.L available in the known universe! One learneth a hard lesson and one learneth not to trust thy<br>+ holy machines to an erstwhile brat like me! > <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3D6DECDC.25C04005@127.0.0.1">   <pre wrap="">oG The siren in question was removed before the car went to its next proudgE owner (and probably scrapped) and before attempting fitting it to theeE successor, I tested it, and it let forth a squeak and a puff of smokexH from the horn. It is bizarre now to think of the anti theft alarm systemA on it, when the vehicle itself was probably enough as a deterrent'F against theft. Not a comment about Cortinas in general, just the one I drove.   </pre>
 </blockquote>EN I remember it. A fine vehicle, when you revved it a bit and dropped the clutch at the lights. Especially<br>.N in the rain. &lt;scrrrrrrrrr&gt; &lt;squeak&gt; &lt;jump&gt; &lt;vroooooom&gt; &lt;crunch --- possibly&gt;s> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3D6DECDC.25C04005@127.0.0.1">   <pre wrap=""> B Despite all this, I made a career in VMS systems. I still have car1 adventures even when attending (now) HP events ass <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cpcharges.gif">http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cpcharges.gif</a> shows (hence the sig). Wei' now return you to normal programming...      </pre>
 </blockquote>-I Normal Programming? I hope thou dost not meanest the microsloth virus andu it's "legitimate"<br>eJ ... um ... penetration into otherwise servicable desktop machines! Nuff 'o	 that.<br>p <br>H If you passest this bridge by me... answer ... um ... me these questions
 three:<br> <br>G (i) who wast that blonde blue-eyed siren of Maths &amp; Computing ?<br>  <br>H (ii) who wast thine master of Maths &amp; Computing of that period ?<br> <br>Q (iii) what was the name of thine PDP11 (RSTS/E) system that thee administreth<br>a with the utmosteth of care?<br>B <br>L (iv) What was the name of that rather spiffy club in the centre of town that was<br>.F the hip place to be --- just down the road from the p1nk panth3r ?<br> <br> (iv) Send thy bleedin' PGP key &amp; email address (to: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ryo@newyork.com">ryo@newyork.com</a> andC I'll<br>H sendeth thee mine bleedin' PGP key &amp; picture that we mayest converse
 on these,<br>nJ the holiest of matters involving falling-down water and very affable young ladies.)<br> <br> (v) Thankest thou muchly!<br>  <br> ;)<br> <br> <br> </body>n </html>.  ( --------------040607030407010701090405--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:18:30 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: Calling Nic Clews ...) Message-ID: <3D6E4956.4C573C49@127.0.0.1>r   Ford Prefect wrote:5 > 7 > Yaaayy! It's the man 'imself.  Holy nostalgia batman!1  E MC251nn is working on an upper floor of this building, and an MC252nniE across the way. It's a small world. Denis, Neil the Teapot, Terry thet hacker, Bongoland...  G > Ach, Pete the non-beleiver. Actually I remember Pete writing a rathera > neat MACRO programE > to ... ahem ... back-up a user's keystrokes to file (or screen!) sos > one could be sure that thyD > users were not mere chimpanzees trying to write Shakespeare in the$ > traditional (statistical) fashion.  C Pete's on your side of the pond. Early versions of his program were-! called CRASH for obvious reasons.e  hG > And Bob, laddie who foolishly gave me ALTPRI and then saw his systemsv > groundeth into theA > holy digital dust as my badly written code sat in endless loopsy > slurping up all the CPU timeE > available in the known universe! One learneth a hard lesson and one  > learneth not to trust thys- > holy machines to an erstwhile brat like me!t   PIE.EXE ... remember that one?  E > I remember it. A fine vehicle, when you revved it a bit and droppeda& > the clutch at the lights. EspeciallyD > in the rain. <scrrrrrrrrr> <squeak> <jump> <vroooooom> <crunch --- > possibly>e   Second gear was knackered.  $ > > We+ > > now return you to normal programming...O > >rG > Normal Programming? I hope thou dost not meanest the microsloth virusU > and it's "legitimate"hD > ... um ... penetration into otherwise servicable desktop machines! > Nuff 'o that.l   VMS through and through...  y@ > If you passest this bridge by me... answer ... um ... me these > questions three: > A > (i) who wast that blonde blue-eyed siren of Maths & Computing ?P   Paula.  EB > (ii) who wast thine master of Maths & Computing of that period ?  6 The fellow with the glasses or his rotund predecessor?  MB > (iii) what was the name of thine PDP11 (RSTS/E) system that thee > administreth > with the utmosteth of care?l  F POLLY. Prior to my network redesign, it was called ELECT (with VAX and. PDP the other two unimaginatively named nodes)  eD > (iv) What was the name of that rather spiffy club in the centre of > town that wasoD > the hip place to be --- just down the road from the p1nk panth3r ?  ? Ritzy. However, without adequate lubrication with an odourless,oG colourless volatile liquid known for its intoxicating effect on certainbB carbon based lifeforms, the perception could alter from the truth,# particularly on Wednesday evenings.   tE > (iv) Send thy bleedin' PGP key & email address (to: ryo@newyork.come
 > and I'llF > sendeth thee mine bleedin' PGP key & picture that we mayest converse > on these,tF > the holiest of matters involving falling-down water and very affable > young ladies.)  , And at this point it goes to personal email.  C If anyone else identifies with any of this, I think you should haveSD enough to get in touch. I know this is OT, however when I got a callD asking if I knew the answers to the questions, there are bound to be other wondering the same.e   > (v) Thankest thou muchly!o >  > ;)   -- i? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesu nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:51:15 -0700 " From: Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>G Subject: Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3h, Message-ID: <3D6DB653.48AB3722@telocity.com>   or earlier?  Why the limit?g   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  S > In article <3D6D7E72.42FE33C8@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:eH > > I haven't been tracking Vesting for a while.  Can one still take VAX4 > > executables and vest them to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3? >s; > Certainly if the images are from VAX VMS V5.5 or earlier.o   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 04:30:15 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)oG Subject: Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3N3 Message-ID: <ExTg0ftUqB9D@eisner.encompasserve.org>B  Q In article <3D6DB653.48AB3722@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:  > or earlier?  Why the limit?Y >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > T >> In article <3D6D7E72.42FE33C8@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:I >> > I haven't been tracking Vesting for a while.  Can one still take VAXn5 >> > executables and vest them to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3?o >>< >> Certainly if the images are from VAX VMS V5.5 or earlier.   Well, not earlier than V4.0.  @ The Translated Image Environment was originally built to emulate@ VAX RTLs available at that time.  There would have to be updates? to handle new features.  Perhaps there have been some, but thatv is the limit of my knowledge.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:47:43 +0100r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>tG Subject: Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3I8 Message-ID: <b4rrmuk8ggfbcjchk91kh80k0offi2lip9@4ax.com>  @ On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:51:15 -0700, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> wrote:   >or earlier?  Why the limit?  A You can VEST later images. For instance I just, as an experiment,oE vested a DIRECTORY.EXE from a VAX 7.1 system on an Alpha 7.2-1 and itw? worked. Well I got a complaint about  "BEFORE" not found in CLD1+ command tables but that isn't a VEST issue.e  ? I think the 5.5 restriction is because the run time support for C translated images on Alpha was built with VAX 5.5 libraries but notd' much has changed on the VAX since then.K   >Larry Kilgallen wrote:s >-T >> In article <3D6D7E72.42FE33C8@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:I >> > I haven't been tracking Vesting for a while.  Can one still take VAXf5 >> > executables and vest them to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3?n >>< >> Certainly if the images are from VAX VMS V5.5 or earlier.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 06:50:13 -0400e2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>G Subject: Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3j) Message-ID: <3D6DFC65.2090809@oracle.com>   E In fact the OpenVMS V7.3-1 distribution (on the OpenSource tools CD?) + includes an updated vest/migration utility.e  
 Koloth wrote:   F > I haven't been tracking Vesting for a while.  Can one still take VAX2 > executables and vest them to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3? >  > Thanks >  > Cass Witkowski >  >      -- e> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:22:56 -0400g' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>(G Subject: RE: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3lT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660985@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  + As Norm mentioned, check out the following:i5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/omsva/p  B "The OpenVMS Migration Services Program is pleased to announce the< OpenVMS Migration Software for VAX to Alpha (OMSVA) product.  F Formerly named DECmigrate, this updated product supports the migration5 of OpenVMS VAX applications to OpenVMS Alpha systems.s =20tG The VAX Environment Software Translator (VEST) is an OMSVA utility thatzH translates executable and shareable OpenVMS VAX images into functionallyG equivalent images that run on OpenVMS Alpha systems. A translated imageaH is an OpenVMS Alpha image containing both VAX code translated into Alpha0 code, as well as the original OpenVMS VAX image.  > OMSVA has been updated to include new features, bug fixes, andE documentation updates. OMSVA V1.2 is an updated release that includes  the following new features:=20  D - Native Alpha images of OMSVA utilities, which have the performanceC advantage over the translated images of DECmigrate V1.1A utilities.uF - Image reference renaming during translation. The user is now able toF control the names of the referenced translated shareable images and toG keep multiple versions of a translated image and the corresponding .IIFr file on the same system.G - New translated shareable images of the runtime libraries from OpenVMS E VAX V7.3. These images are installed with OMSVA V1.2 and coexist withE$ the old translated shareable images.  C The software and documentation is available via the Web and will beaA distributed with the OpenVMS V7.3-1 CD kit only. A formal OpenVMSmC Product Authorization Key (PAK) is not needed to install or run thetC OMSVA product software; however, customers are required to registertB accepting a freeware licensing agreement. Click here to access theF agreement, complete a registration form, and download the software and documentation.   Supportd  C OMSVA is being made available to users on an "as is" basis, without G support. However, users can report OMSVA problems to Software ResourceseG International by mail. Software  Resources International will follow uphG on an optional basis and at its sole discretion without any obligation.t@ Please use the Software Problem Report (SPR) available from SRI.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----< From: norm lastovica [mailto:norman.lastovica@oracle.com]=20 Sent: August 29, 2002 6:50 AM, To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CommG Subject: Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3     E In fact the OpenVMS V7.3-1 distribution (on the OpenSource tools CD?)m+ includes an updated vest/migration utility.n  
 Koloth wrote:   I > I haven't been tracking Vesting for a while.  Can one still take VAX=20 2 > executables and vest them to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3? >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Cass Witkowski >=20 >=20     --=20d> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:45:19 GMTr. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)G Subject: Re: Can one still vest Vax executables onto Alpha OpenVMS V7.3n5 Message-ID: <jPnb9.108670$y71.3159006@news.chello.at>   Q In article <3D6D7E72.42FE33C8@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:iE >I haven't been tracking Vesting for a while.  Can one still take VAXr1 >executables and vest them to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3?   B Depends on the original VAX image, but basically the answer is YES  ; Go to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/omsva/sK download the latest version (and docs) of OMSVA/VEST/DECmigrate and try it.w   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER.% Network and OpenVMS system specialisto E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 08:10:05 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)L Subject: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree?= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0208290710.43e1ea58@posting.google.com>t  F OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 with TCPIP V5.1 eco 4.  Already checked the FAQ and( historical appearances of this question.  A We've got a fair number of users on this system who are moving toeD using FTP (the Powerterm graphical client) to move files between VMSB and their peecees in place of Pathworks to the previous VAX system@ (upgrade license costs...); it is adequate since most users only  transfer files 1-2 times a week.  F The Q's TCPIP apparently doesn't have a way to restrict the CD commandC so that the user is confined to their login directory tree, meaning D they can attempt to move anywhere in the filesystem (and in fact twoA users have to do just that to move files to special import/exporttD directories).  The remaining users need access to their home tree soE the anonymous aliases wouldn't work (there are too many users for the C 10 alias limit anyway).  The TCPIP V5.3 docs seem to be the same asr@ the V5.1 in this area, and the release notes don't show anything! useful so no joy with an upgrade.,  E Multinet is not an option, nor TCPware.  One past post indicated thato= Hunter Goatleys's FTP product had a method of doing this; I'ma1 downloading that next to see.  Any other options?c   Rich Jordani   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:09:39 -0400"- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>=P Subject: Re: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree?, Message-ID: <3D6E554A.48DC910E@videotron.ca>   Rich Jordan wrote:H > The Q's TCPIP apparently doesn't have a way to restrict the CD commandE > so that the user is confined to their login directory tree, meaningC5 > they can attempt to move anywhere in the filesystemr   Same as the SET DEF command.  L What you can do is structure their login directory to have a rooted logical.  
 For instance;a  K instead of $DISK2:[users.bill_clinton] you would have USRDIR:[bill_clinton]e  L This means that their FTP client won't make it "obvious" to the user that heL can navigate up past the USRDIR:. If they know the other device names on theR system, yeah, they can CD to it, but for most, they would only see their own tree.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:05:47 +0000 (UTC)r- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)aP Subject: Re: Current ways to restrict FTP access to user's login directory tree?. Message-ID: <aklk9b$hms$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes in article <cc5619f2.0208290710.43e1ea58@posting.google.com> dated 29 Aug 2002 08:10:05 -0700:G >The Q's TCPIP apparently doesn't have a way to restrict the CD commandmD >so that the user is confined to their login directory tree, meaningE >they can attempt to move anywhere in the filesystem (and in fact two B >users have to do just that to move files to special import/exportE >directories).  The remaining users need access to their home tree so0F >the anonymous aliases wouldn't work (there are too many users for theD >10 alias limit anyway).  The TCPIP V5.3 docs seem to be the same asA >the V5.1 in this area, and the release notes don't show anythingh" >useful so no joy with an upgrade.  J This really isn't a FTP/TCPIP issue; it's one of general file protection. I You don't really want users to have one set of files they can access whenNH they are logged in interactively vs. a more restricted set when they areK connected to the FTP server, do you?  They could circumvent that by loggingrI in interactively and copying files between their home directory and thoserJ other places they aren't supposed to mess with, and then ftp them (or vice versa).b  K To set all (regular) files on the volume "USER" so that only the owner (and 7 no other normal users) can access them, the command is:   C     $ SET FILE DISK$USER:[*...]*.*;* /PROT=(OWNER:RWED,GROUP,WORLD)"  B For more complex needs I refer you to the _OpenVMS Guide to System Security_ manual.o  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orge> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:49:25 +0200o' From: Bitnissen <bitnissen@hotmail.com> 1 Subject: Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File helps8 Message-ID: <3rgrmuc9hhb96qpr5eef1c477bppddvgri@4ax.com>   Hi Fransicoe  D Take a look in sys$examples: there is a lot of files you can use for further developmentd  7 EVE$ADVANCED.TPU;1                      EVE$BUILD.TPU;1 6 EVE$CONSTANTS.TPU;1                     EVE$CORE.TPU;16 EVE$DECWINDOWS.TPU;1                    EVE$EDIT.TPU;18 EVE$EDT.TPU;1                           EVE$EXTEND.TPU;16 EVE$EXTRAS.TPU;1                        EVE$FILE.TPU;16 EVE$FORMAT.TPU;1                        EVE$HELP.TPU;17 EVE$INTERNATIONALIZATION.TPU;1          EVE$MENUS.TPU;1h9 EVE$MOUSE.TPU;1                         EVE$OPTIONS.TPU;1a6 EVE$PARSER.TPU;1                        EVE$SHOW.TPU;1; EVE$SYNONYMS.TPU;1                      EVE$TERMINALS.TPU;1d9 EVE$WILDCARD.TPU;1                      EVE$WINDOWS.TPU;1 
 EVE$WPS.TPU;1e   Best regards  
 Jimmi Aakjaeri    6 On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:16:22 -0400, "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> wrote:   >Hi,L >         I use to have a configuration file that would allow me to do basicM >task with the pf keys. It would kind of emulate the edt editor . (edit /edt)1J >commands. Does any one have a configuration file that has good shortcuts. >Thankse >.
 >Francisco >  >6 >5   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:29:11 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)1 Subject: Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File help 5 Message-ID: <bAnb9.108572$y71.3160492@news.chello.at>i  p In article <BKcb9.35238$Hd4.7623558@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> writes:L >         I use to have a configuration file that would allow me to do basicM >task with the pf keys. It would kind of emulate the edt editor . (edit /edt)mJ >commands. Does any one have a configuration file that has good shortcuts.  9 Define 'good' ;-)	Most important is DEFINE EVE$KEYPAD EDTs  < and I posted my EVE$INIT some weeks ago. Maybe it helps you:  P TPU IF GET_INFO (SCREEN, "MOTIF") THEN SET (MOUSE,ON) ELSE SET (MOUSE,OFF) ENDIF DEF KEY=CONTROL-B SET WIDTH 132l DEF KEY=CONTROL-N SET WIDTH 80 DEF KEY=F8 QUITu DEF KEY=GOLD-E EXIT  DEF KEY=GOLD-Q QUITn6 DEF KEY=GOLD-X TPU WRITE_FILE (SELECT_RANGE,"TMP.TMP")! DEF KEY=GOLD-LEFT  "SHIFT LEFT 8"e" DEF KEY=GOLD-RIGHT "SHIFT RIGHT 8" SET CURSOR BOUND SET NOEXIT ATTRIBUTE CHECK SET SCROLL MARGIN 7 7e
 SET NOWRAP   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERh% Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 06:08:34 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)1 Subject: Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File helpn= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0208290508.24a40bd7@posting.google.com>   u "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> wrote in message news:<BKcb9.35238$Hd4.7623558@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>...h > Hi, M >          I use to have a configuration file that would allow me to do basic N > task with the pf keys. It would kind of emulate the edt editor . (edit /edt)K > commands. Does any one have a configuration file that has good shortcuts.m > Thanks >  > Franciscoy    ; Well, why go for kind of when you can have the real McCoy!     $ DEFINE EVE$KEYPAD EDTr  D and that will cause EVE to implement its emulation of the EDT keypadC from wherever you call it (EVE). So if you do $ EVE file, that willyC give the EDT keypad. If you set up EVE as your default MAIL editor,u( that, too, will give you the EDT keypad.  5 Please be more specific when describing your request.o   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmank   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 07:38:49 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)1 Subject: Re: EDIT - TPU . Configuration File help = Message-ID: <b10654c6.0208290638.3c940f7c@posting.google.com>n  u "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> wrote in message news:<BKcb9.35238$Hd4.7623558@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>...v > Hi,fM >          I use to have a configuration file that would allow me to do basiceN > task with the pf keys. It would kind of emulate the edt editor . (edit /edt)K > commands. Does any one have a configuration file that has good shortcuts.  > Thanks >  > Franciscoa  E You might also want to check out the ATG_EDT package.  I've not triedeF it, but it claims to be an EDT-like editor for EVE which is written inF TPU.  ATG_EDT was written by Nick de Smith(*), a old-time VMS "biggie"F (for years), so I can't imagine that it's not a good package in so farE as it's intention (I'm not big on EDT any longer.)  It may or may nota? answer your desire for "good shortcuts," but if you are lookingBE basically for good EDT emulation, I can't imagine that Nick's packager$ fails very short of that, if at all.  . You can find ATG_EDT at Hunter Goatley's site:7 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/atg_eve.zipa   Chrisl -----V Chris Olivet colive(at)technologEase(dot)comp   ---?A (*) Nick, last I knew and emailed with him had gone the way of NT  (quite a while back AAMOF)...-   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 02:20:30 -0700( From: ermak@cbr.ryazan.su (Yuri Ermakov)) Subject: Re: How to configure DECNet-plus.< Message-ID: <e6836292.0208290120.37091f0@posting.google.com>  w "Yong Liu" <fdu9774@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<1Ibb9.121665$8aG1.91786@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...r > Hi,l > 0 > To configure TCP/IP, you take following steps:" > (1) Make the hardware connected.: > (2) Run @tcpip$config (Set you local node in the nework). > (3) tcpip set host (set the local host file)$ > (4) ping a neighbor (verification) > I > My question is: What are the similar steps for configuring DECNet-plus?l > M > I installed DECNet-plus. run decnet-config. The problem is even a show host . > local file takes forever. What's wrong here? > < > Any pointers? Detailed direction will be most appreciated.   @net$configure advancedm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:19:56 GMTu. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)) Subject: Re: How to configure DECNet-plusv5 Message-ID: <wrnb9.108512$y71.3151734@news.chello.at>D  \ In article <3D6D7F69.ADF189B8@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Yong Liu wrote:N >> I installed DECNet-plus. run decnet-config. The problem is even a show host/ >> local file takes forever. What's wrong here?Y >> f= >> Any pointers? Detailed direction will be most appreciated.g >a >PRODUCT REMOVE DECNET-PLUSt' >@VMSINSTAL the real DECNET  (decnet 4)s >@NETCONFIGs >eM >If you do not need the functionality of decnet-plus, the real decnet (decnetd= >4) is much smaller and much simpler to configure and manage.h  M Nope. I used both in the last 19 years. And DECnet-Plus is definitely better.lH DECnet Phase 5 was crap with DECnet-VAX Extensions (V5.4) but that was a decade ago.t   -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistl E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:11:26 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>o) Subject: RE: How to use jar under OpenVMSlT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660986@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,f  B <<< Good until you realise that SPEC don't have a 2 or 4 processor category.>>>* <<<Up to your old tricks again how sad.>>>  
 Reference:4 http://www.spec.org/osg/jbb2000/results/jbb2000.html  C As one can see from this web site, all of these jbb2000 results arenH posted with the actual number of cpu's for each test, so one can clearly, see that there are different cpu categories.   But you knew that, didn't you?  H You may also now be aware of the new ES45 1.25Ghz jbb2000 numbers posted there as well.  Alpha ES45 1.25Ghz 4 cpu - 56191  Alpha ES45 1.25Ghz 2 cpu - 29158  H I am assuming the Sun 6800 is a roughly equivalent mid range server, butG feel free to correct me if I am in error here. Note that this number is/ 8 cpu's.  ) Sun-Fire 6800 US III 750Mhz 8 cpu - 43353i     Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesm Voice: 613-592-4660, Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20z Sent: August 19, 2002 6:47 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt) Subject: Re: How to use jar under OpenVMSo    G I did like the wonderfull spin in the SPECjbb results for the ES45. TheiA ES45 apparently has the best performance in the 2 and 4 processori category for SPECjbb.   H Good until you realise that SPEC don't have a 2 or 4 processor category.F Reminds me of those best TPC-C performance in the 2 processor category. claims that Digital used to make for the 4100.  $ Up to your old tricks again how sad.   Regardst Andrew   Main, Kerry wrote:   > Yong,a >=20I > The latest versions of Java and the release notes for OpenVMS can be=20n > downloaded for free from:=200 > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html >=20	 > Regardse >=20 > Kerry Main > Senior Consultante > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicese > Voice: 613-592-4660i > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message-----, > From: Yong Liu [mailto:fdu9774@rogers.com] > Sent: August 8, 2002 9:56 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi' > Subject: How to use jar under OpenVMS- >=20 >=20 > Hi,r >=20H > I have an alpha server running openVMS7.3. My understanding is that=20J > Java comes with OS. Normally, you can use jar -cvf  files_to_be_jared=20H > to compress you classes for distribution. But I have tried this and it  H > does not work. By now you know that I am a newbie. Can you tell me how   > to make this work? >=20 > Thanks >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:55:24 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a) Subject: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksl8 Message-ID: <mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com>     )  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161S  ! HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works e  7 And who can blame them? Corel wins with big PC builderse  / By Egan Orion: Wednesday 28 August 2002, 10:21 i    B IT JUST HIT the PC industry radar that first Dell and then HP haveF chosen to bundle Corel's WordPerfect Office Suite instead of Microsoft3 Works. The story broke in the Financial Times here.AC Between them, HP and Dell account for about 30% of the worldwide PCxA OEM market as tracked by IDC for Q2/2002 and reported by News.Comd here.t  E These are huge wins for Corel (a Canadian company) and they raise theiE bar for PC OEMs to bung in a full office productivity suite with PCs.lD IBM, Fujitsu-Siemens, NEC, Gateway, Micron, Acer, et al will have toD take notice and adjust their applications software bundling tactics.  C WordPerfect was once arguably the best professional word processing D application for the PC in the mid-80's and even later, but they fellC behind in the face of Microsoft's hyper-competitive tactics in mostoE business markets -- except in legal circles where WordPerfect remainsnB a significant player. Many US Courts still require WordPerfect forB soft copies (though some use PDF too, now) and lots of law officesD still use it routinely -- many legal secretaries and attorneys still= swear by WordPerfect for its keyboarding speed and formattingi
 transparency.,  A One imagines that Corel offered HP and Dell a great deal on theiroF fully feathered office productivity suite -- at a low price comparable? to the tariff for the Microsoft Works bundle of crippled officeEA applications. If so, it's no wonder the big boys switched, and ite might be a trend.     R         -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:45:51 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft WorkseC Message-ID: <zXmb9.287637$2p2.11549128@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>g  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com... >y+ >  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161o >h" > HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works  ; For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctionedPJ Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacleA to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this issH significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offL even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actually go; somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that aeJ generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have needed.a   Or not.  But one can hope.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:57:57 GMTi$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works 8 Message-ID: <00A132A1.1B431F62@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  p In article <zXmb9.287637$2p2.11549128@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >u3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagei3 >news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com...e >>, >>  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161 >># >> HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksi > < >For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctionedK >Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacleeB >to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this isI >significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offCM >even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actually gor< >somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that aK >generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have. >needed.  E Especially since most elements of Corel Office actually run on Linux.    >n >Or not.  But one can hope.: >e   Indeed.n   -- Alanu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:57:30 +0100k% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> - Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workso8 Message-ID: <7a6smug8qhnav8b5pngh9s72run6nbnpj7@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:57:57 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:    F >Especially since most elements of Corel Office actually run on Linux.  ( And some of them on VMS for that matter:p http://www3.corel.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=Corel/PressRelease/Details&id=CC1ZYU9TI9C  F "Support for Linux fits well with Corel's mission statement - to focusA technology leadership to offer customers value, compatibility andTE choice. Corel presently offers its award-winning Corel WordPerfect on B numerous operating systems including Linux, UNIX, Macintosh, DOS,* Open VMS and various Windows platforms".   6 Although a third party handles the VMS port for Corel.  E Hmm, maybe HP could be persuaded to bundle WordPerfect with VMS. Bothr= the VT interface and X-Windows versions are available for VMSu     >> >>Or not.  But one can hope. >> >  >Indeed. >i >-- Alan   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:35:27 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGe- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workss0 Message-ID: <00A132C7.DF1B779E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >  n* > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161 >h" >HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works  > 8 >And who can blame them? Corel wins with big PC builders  : Perhaps it's because they've come to the realisation that " Micro$oft Works is an oxymoron! :)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:20:56 -0400T- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksm+ Message-ID: <3D6E3BD6.42D2DBA@videotron.ca>    Alan Greig wrote:eC > One imagines that Corel offered HP and Dell a great deal on their-H > fully feathered office productivity suite -- at a low price comparableA > to the tariff for the Microsoft Works bundle of crippled officeo > applications.h  K Did Microsoft want to turn Works into a registered software that you can to G constantly re-register when you upgrade your hardware ? If so, it mightuK explain why the consumers would have told they would prefer a prooduct that  does have such sillyness.   M If Microsoft's new licensing unravels, it may be very bad news for Microsoft.U   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:16:07 -0600U6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft WorksN0 Message-ID: <eVqb9.77$TY2.37691@news.uswest.net>  K Actually, Microsoft should have dumped Microsoft Works years ago.  MS-Works L is brain-dead, incompatible with almost everything, including MS-Office, lowL end office application suite.  Now if HP and Dell had dumped MS-Office, that would have been news.e  
 Mike Ober.  1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message02 news:00A132A1.1B431F62@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...K > In article <zXmb9.287637$2p2.11549128@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billb& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >f5 > >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message 5 > >news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com...t > >>. > >>  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161 > >>% > >> HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works2 > >9> > >For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctionedD > >Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacleD > >to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this isK > >significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned off L > >even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actually go> > >somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that aH > >generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have
 > >needed. >-G > Especially since most elements of Corel Office actually run on Linux.m >e > >g > >Or not.  But one can hope.F > >I > 	 > Indeed.O >"	 > -- Alan(   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:49:23 GMTE1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) - Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works== Message-ID: <7orb9.371403$q53.12224609@twister.austin.rr.com>F  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: : Alan Greig wrote:DE : > One imagines that Corel offered HP and Dell a great deal on theiriJ : > fully feathered office productivity suite -- at a low price comparableC : > to the tariff for the Microsoft Works bundle of crippled officen : > applications.a : M : Did Microsoft want to turn Works into a registered software that you can to0I : constantly re-register when you upgrade your hardware ? If so, it might I : explain why the consumers would have told they would prefer a prooduct .  : that does have such sillyness. : E : If Microsoft's new licensing unravels, it may be very bad news for t : Microsoft.  E Microsoft is meeting Moore's Law, the cost of Microsoft Works is moreu than the low-end PCs...   L    http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/28/technology/techinvestor/hellweg/index.htmL    Tech Investor: Microsoft's newest challenger: Moore's Law - Aug. 28, 2002  C   "Entire PCs can be had for less than the cost of Microsoft Officea$    software -- and a market is born.      August 28, 2002: 4:48 PM EDTV4    By Eric Hellweg, CNN/Money Contributing Columnist  G    SAN FRANCISCO (CNN/Money) - In these recessionary times, holding theT7    line on costs is foremost in most executives' minds.   E    Thankfully, in the technology world -- unlike, say, real estate --dE    Moore's Law and its corollaries keep innovation chugging along and-C    prices continually on the decline, thereby lowering costs for usoE    consumers. Case in point: You can buy a low-end computer today forr=    $400, when five years ago it would run you at least $2000.t  	    [snip]m  G    One of the favorite pastimes of any technology watcher is to imagine5C    scenarios in which Microsoft could be toppled -- if for no otherI@    reason than because it seems so damn invincible. These recentI    developments hardly signal the end is near for Redmond. But as history/C    has proven, it's a bad idea to put yourself on the other side ofdF    Moore's Law, a place Microsoft finds itself now that PC prices haveI    finally fallen below the cost of its software. Too many companies havel(    fought the law, and the law has won."  G Perhaps the neighborhood clone shop will start including Corel's suite y on their systems:m      http://www.golightspeed.com/i"    Computers by Lightspeed Systems  ?   "Each day between Noon and 1PM - We toss money into the air! r    (no kidding)"   Now that's advertising !! :-)l  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaili   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 05:47:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0208290447.7bf32c08@posting.google.com>N  v susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in message news:<857e9e41.0208281733.44b61aef@posting.google.com>... > John, JF and Andrew, > D > As you all are probably aware the regular HP people that visit anyH > newsgroup can not give out revenue number, never could, probably neverD > will and I doubt that many companies allow their employees to talk > about revenue numbers. > 0 > That said, I am sure glad you are on our side. > % > Andrew how did Sun do this quarter?t >  > Sue  >   < Sun's stock price is tanking just like their servers are ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:27:15 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>.7 Subject: Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?o0 Message-ID: <aklegk$nqj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote:   > John, JF and Andrew, > D > As you all are probably aware the regular HP people that visit anyH > newsgroup can not give out revenue number, never could, probably neverD > will and I doubt that many companies allow their employees to talk > about revenue numbers. > 0 > That said, I am sure glad you are on our side. > % > Andrew how did Sun do this quarter?n >     ( Ok well pretty good in the circumstances 1 cent a share..   Revenue up, market share up.  ) Incedentally why would you stop employees') talking about what is in your SEC filing.i  ' I can understand a control on employeesa& talking about numbers that havn't been# published. But why the concern overE published numbers.   Regardse Andrew Harrisont     > Sue- > c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D6D05DF.E9D5EFC3@videotron.ca>...  >  >>John Nebel wrote:y >>J >>>Does anyone know how the VMS part of HPs business is doing financially? >>> N >>If there was no know to know under Compaq, do you really think that HP would >>reveal that information ?m >>L >>Note that HP's press release talked only about wintel as well a HP's "own": >>products and did not mention Digital or Tandem products. >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:16:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a7 Subject: Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?7+ Message-ID: <3D6E56EB.619E11F@videotron.ca>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:+ > Incedentally why would you stop employeesy+ > talking about what is in your SEC filing.>  J Andrew, under Compaq, and I suspect HP, the numbers for the alpha businessJ were never revealed and were always bunched in with other products such asJ wintel servers in order not to reveal how big a blunder the killing of VMS@ (almost done once) and killing of Alpha (done already) would be.  G Remember that Compaq and HP never talk about VMS and they don't want todK publicly admit that this product is very profitable because they would then-4 look stupid for not trying to grow and advertise it.  M The lack of corporate acknowledgement of VMS's contributions to the corporate M success is perhaps the biggest inducer of lack of confidence in HP's handling  of VMS.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:24:48 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>,+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyc8 Message-ID: <2bmrmugilsllj58qvcc8gogv6dc6t9nq6o@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:44:02 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:u   >John Smith wrote:I >> If they make so much money on printers and consumables that it doesn't K >> matter, then the smart thing to do is exit the PC business entirely. The5= >> capital free'd up by doing so would boost shareholder ROE.  >eA >Remember the "Windows will eviscerate" strategy from Compaq/HP ?   E Certainly from Compaq. Whether HP will follow this line is unclear. A E recent report on CNN says that HP announced last week that they would.F ship Corel Office (WordPerfect, Quattro etc) with all consumer PCs and- that (CNN said) this was a snub to Microsoft.i  I http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/28/technology/techinvestor/hellweg/index.htme  > "Microsoft's insistence on its pricing model and ever-stricterE licensing plans is opening the door for companies such as Corel, withrE its Word Perfect suite (remember that?). HP (HPQ: up $0.06 to $14.27, B Research, Estimates) sure remembers it, and announced earlier this? week that it would ship Corel with its entire Pavillion line of.D consumer PCs. Last week, Dell (DELL: down $0.43 to $26.72, Research,; Estimates) announced it would be offering Corel WordPerfect=? Productivity Pack (the Corel equivalent of Microsoft Office) on B selected models of its Dimension desktop and Inspiron notebooks".      -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 14:17:30 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly J Message-ID: <_1qb9.127618$8aG1.65080@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:2bmrmugilsllj58qvcc8gogv6dc6t9nq6o@4ax.com.... > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:44:02 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:> >  > >John Smith wrote:K > >> If they make so much money on printers and consumables that it doesn't I > >> matter, then the smart thing to do is exit the PC business entirely.  Thet? > >> capital free'd up by doing so would boost shareholder ROE.D > >nC > >Remember the "Windows will eviscerate" strategy from Compaq/HP ?t > G > Certainly from Compaq. Whether HP will follow this line is unclear. AeG > recent report on CNN says that HP announced last week that they wouldtH > ship Corel Office (WordPerfect, Quattro etc) with all consumer PCs and/ > that (CNN said) this was a snub to Microsoft.t    < I'd call it a quantitative leap in quality more than a snub.  I WordPerfect was the market leader in the DOS / Unix world for commecially J sold wordprocessing products, and a reasonable seller under VMS too (stillI have my VT2xx keyboard template somewhere). Then came their first WindowsnJ version (WP5.0 or 5.1 for Windows, if memory serves), and it was horrible.4 That's when Microsoft Word began to become dominant.  I Subsequent releases of WordPerfect improved matters greatly but there waseC one other change along the way that hurt WordPerfect vs. Microsoft.tI WordPerfect's policy of unlimited free tech support was changed to a paidtJ model while Microsoft kept their policy of unlimited free tech support forL Word (that didn't change until 1997-98 timeframe). This was during the greatK growth phase of PC's in the business and personal markets, with millions ofeL new users getting started with word processing for the first time, trying toG master the new-to-them topics of kerning, leading, em-dash and en-dash,oK columns and tables, mail merge, and the like. And many consumers voted with-K their wallets, choosing Word vs. WordPerfect, in order to get free support.MK I can't recall for certain at this time, but WordPerfect may have even been . marginally more expensive to purchase as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:04:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyq, Message-ID: <3D6E542E.797B940E@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote: K > WordPerfect's policy of unlimited free tech support was changed to a paidlL > model while Microsoft kept their policy of unlimited free tech support for4 > Word (that didn't change until 1997-98 timeframe).    J Out of curiosity, was Microsoft's "free" support worth anyting in terms ofH quality and response time ? Or was such support deamed worthless by most: corporations who opted for paid support by a third party ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:56:01 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly K Message-ID: <Retb9.128078$8aG1.118544@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6E542E.797B940E@videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote:.H > > WordPerfect's policy of unlimited free tech support was changed to a paidJ > > model while Microsoft kept their policy of unlimited free tech support forq6 > > Word (that didn't change until 1997-98 timeframe). >/ >wL > Out of curiosity, was Microsoft's "free" support worth anyting in terms ofJ > quality and response time ? Or was such support deamed worthless by most< > corporations who opted for paid support by a third party ?    H Microsoft's free support for Word was always pretty good, timely, and ifJ they didn't have the answer right away they would call back. At least that was my experience.  L In my opinion WordPerfect tech support was always a notch or two better thanG Microsoft for the level of comfort they gave you in working things out.*K Example: WordPerfect would help you by writing a short macro for you if younI needed one and giving you guidance on how to extend it, whereas MicrosofteJ would not write one nor tell you how to extend one easily. The WordperfectJ on-line support (pre-web days) provided via a forum on Compuserve was much6 better than comparable on-line support from Microsoft.  K To this day, I still feel more comfortable using WordPerfect vs. Word, evenTE though I have now used Word longer than WordPerfect, and I seldom useeL WordPerfect any more. I find WordPerfect to be more intuitive and far easierF to fix things when they screw up. However, I think that Corel needs toH improve their on-line knowledgebase/support - at this stage I think that< Microsoft's on-line support resources for Word are superior.    > For an inexpensive copy of WordPerfect for Windows, check out:9 http://saveateaglestore.site.yahoo.net/corworofsuit2.htmlo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:21:46 -0400nK From: "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net>V! Subject: HPETS Discount Deadlines / Message-ID: <ums4f192um6t8a@corp.supernews.com>.  H FYI - There are discounts in effect for those who attended last year and thoserL signing up for a seminar.  In most of the past years the deadline dates wereE extend.  Please don't count on that this year - the deadline won't be 	 extended.S   --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.cck  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------<   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:04:03 GMTe3 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>l7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?w3 Message-ID: <3D6DF1C0.A3294F97@mcmail.maricopa.edu>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:  c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D6BD170.D8CB9535@videotron.ca>...t > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > >TW > > > Remember: NOON IS 12:00 PM AND MIDNIGHT IS 12:00 AM!!! AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT!!!- > >-' > > Noon is 12.00 and midnight is 00:00u > >2@ > > Stop using ways of showing time which can lead to confusion. >j= > Would you prefer 12:00 PM IS NOON AND 12:00 AM IS MIDNIGHT?D >2 > Or perhaps a table >l > 12 midnight  12:00 am  0000s > 12 noon      12:00 pm  1200  >rG > I'm trying to stop the pointless bickering in this thread. Thanks foro > helping. :-) > H > And remember, CLAIMING NOON AND MIDNIGHT ARE EACH NEITHER AM NOR PM IS > RIDICULOUS! THANK YOU. >a > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanw  >   Hey, guys, chill. You're both wrong. Isn't that much better?  $   Actually, a better table would be:     23:59 == 11:59 pma   00:00 == 12:00 ame   00:01 == 12:01 am   4 <lotsa lines left out here. Use your imagination...>     11:59 == 11:59 amv   12:00 == 12:00 m   12:01 == 12:01 pm-  ? <more lines left out here... but back to the top with 23:59...>m  _   Why 12:00 m? Well, am is the latin for "ante merides" and pm is the latin for "post merides". a Merides is the point in the sky where the sun is the highest in the sky. In other words, noon. Sota saying noon, 12:00 pm is to say noon, 12:00 post merides, or noon, 12:00 afternoon. Doesn't scan.c4 Doesn't have a good beat, and you can't dance to it.  d   Of course, I realize that I'm working against a very large base of ignorance here (not meaning thec current company, but in general) when I bring this up, and usually get shouted down, or just looked2d at like I'm from another planet. Sort of like holding to the fact that the 21st century didn't startc until January 1, 2001, instead of January 1, 2000. But sometimes I find it irresistable to kibbitz.t
 Don't we all?t   --Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:35:25 GMT2* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? ? Message-ID: <NNmb9.16408$On.785648@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>d  @ "Carl Nelson" <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu> wrote in message- news:3D6DF1C0.A3294F97@mcmail.maricopa.edu...a   ...e   >   Why 12:00 m?  I Silly question, obvious answer.  The more interesting question is why youwI think calling midnight '12 a.m.' makes any more sense than calling it '12aL p.m.', since that gets back to the root of the entire discussion (which thenH becomes rather similar to the discussion between those who like to start8 their loops at 0 and those who like to start them at 1).  J Calling midnight 00:00 neatly avoids the issue.  And while people who likeK to start their loops at 1 rather than 0 might suggest that is simply raisesRC another (why not 24:00?), they'd have to change the way minutes are2K presented to make that consistent (e.g., 01:00 becomes 24:60, 02:00 becomest 01:60, ...).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 07:51:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? 3 Message-ID: <oH+zOclRqOUn@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  n In article <343f30ae.0208281118.774e09d7@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > H > And remember, CLAIMING NOON AND MIDNIGHT ARE EACH NEITHER AM NOR PM IS > RIDICULOUS! THANK YOU.  D    In that case I will assert the claim, especially since it's true.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:03:32 -0400f; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> 7 Subject: RE: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?eK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA4F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>t   Bob is correct.  t  B AM = Ante Meridian, which starts at 12:01 AM and ends at 11:59 AM A PM = Post Meridian, which starts at 12:01 PM and ends at 11:59 PMr  D A more pressing question is whether the phrase anal-retentive should/ be hyphenated or written as two separate words.O   :^)o   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----6 From: "Bob Koehler" [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]' Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:51 AMo To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 7 Subject: RE: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?o    = In article <343f30ae.0208281118.774e09d7@posting.google.com>,h0 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >oH > And remember, CLAIMING NOON AND MIDNIGHT ARE EACH NEITHER AM NOR PM IS > RIDICULOUS! THANK YOU.  D    In that case I will assert the claim, especially since it's true.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:17:45 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? , Message-ID: <3D6E3B18.986A4A94@videotron.ca>   Carl Nelson wrote:a >   Why 12:00 m? Well, am is the latin for "ante merides" and pm is the latin for "post merides".d` > Merides is the point in the sky where the sun is the highest in the sky. In other words, noon.  J No ! No ! No !  Most locations on Earth do not have the sun at its highestI point at noon, especially when you consider daylight savings and standard N times.  Therefore, if you are at a location where the sun is highest at 13:00,L then 12:00 (noon) would be am. But if you are at a location where the sun isV at its highest at 11:00, then 12:00 (noon) would be pm , according to your definition.  N You'd need a computer and a GPS to figure out exactly whether noon today whereI you are would be am or pm. And it would wreak havock when trying to setupCG meetings. And I sincerely doubt that Microsoft Outlook would be able togJ properly schedule teleconferences if one participant will have the call atL 12:00am while the other participant will have the same call at the same time set to 12:00pm.c  E Might as welll all live on GMT, or better yet, on VMS quadword time. eO "Lets set the meeting at 01C73608 39A7B1F0"  There would be no confusion there.r   :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:00:55 +0100sU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>.7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well? 0 Message-ID: <aklcv8$nej$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:-  A > In article <umqsd38hdsqf0a@corp.supernews.com>, "Brad McCusker"m( > <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote: >  >  >>... But, for a financialL >>writer to believe in stocks and not hold any whatsoever, yes, I think thatL >>is strange, and, that was my point.  And I think (this is my opinion) thatN >>in fact Mr. Byron does NOT believe in stocks, and he in fact thinks they areI >>not good investments.  I disagree with what I believe to be Mr. Byron's H >>beliefs, and therefore, I read his opinions with an elevated degree of >>suspicion. >> > L > Most credible financial writers understand the value of owning some equityJ > securities.  After all, even financial writers have to make a living and > plan for retirement. > K > To avoid the appearance of conflict of interest, a financial writer couldhK > forego owning equities completely.  And perhaps make up the difference innH > earnings by taking cash bribes under the table in exchange for writing > nice stories.  >   :-)  :-) > J > Actually, I agree with you.  Not owning any equities at all, ever, seemsI > odd.  A bit sanctimonious.  Makes me think the fellow is some kind of ae1 > crank.  Definitely lowers his credibility IMHO.  >      Really.   @ Lets see how far has the NYSE or NASDAQ fallen in the last year.  : Mr Byron seems rather smarter than most not holding stocks instead holding US govt bonds.  8 If anything in the current market it makes him look like a rather astute operator.l  4 He after all doesn't say the he has never held stock4 just that currently he doesn't. Lets say he unloaded( his entire portfolio prior to the crash.   RegardsH Andrew Harrisond   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:10:05 +0100nU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> 7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?e0 Message-ID: <akldgd$njj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Brad McCusker wrote:  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" @ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:akiv9u$t2s$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >>. >>So why isn't it true in this case if that is" >>what you are trying to suggest ? >> >>L > Oh Andrew, c'mon, you're a smart individual, I think.  Did I say it wasn't2 > true in this case?  Go on back and look.  Did I? > I > What I said was it twists and diverts the point, I never said it wasn'ts > true.t > I > Obviously, in your rush to disagree with anything Fred says, you reallyd3 > didn't take time to think.  Let me recap for you:- > N > Fred expressed an opinion that Mr. Byron didn't believe in stocks.  This wasL > presumably based on the statement in Mr. Byron's bio that Mr. Byron didn't > invest in equity securities. >     . I think you missunderstand what Freddy boy was
 trying to do.v  . He was attacking the messenger not the message this is his only strategy.  - Note he made no attempt to refute the articlee. but instead attacked the writer of the article0 and not on the basis of his experience, previous- articles background or anything like that bute+ on a very tenuous argument that he couldn't * be that good a financial writer because he doesn't currently hold stock.u  ) Freddys inability to refute the points in ' the article are par for the course, hisp( attempts to attack the messenger are the same.     L > You, in your haste to disagree with Fred, stated "No he just maintains hisL > independence by not holding any stock". By saying "no" to Fred's statementM > that he didn't believe in stocks, I assumed that meant, in your opinion, heeC > did believe in stocks, but choose not to invest in them to remaineK > independent.  And, you didn't seem to think there was anything wrong, or,r > even curious about that. >     4 No I didn't in fact I congratulated him, not holding0 stock at this point in time, and his bio doesn't2 say he has never held stock is a pretty safe place6 to be. It does as well have the advantage of providing independance as well.   5 It obviously hasn't occured to you that dumping stockn  3 prior to the crash and putting your cash into bonds-2 could be a perfectly good explanation for his bio.  3 If it is then it makes him a much smarter financialu* pundit than most and much smarter than me.   Regards  Andrew Harrison1   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Aug 2002 17:20:34 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7 Subject: Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?g6 Message-ID: <akll51$1k5o0m$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  K In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA4F@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,p> 	"Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes: >  > Bob is correct.    > D > AM = Ante Meridian, which starts at 12:01 AM and ends at 11:59 AM C > PM = Post Meridian, which starts at 12:01 PM and ends at 11:59 PMa >   @ Except during DST when the Meridian crossing is off by an hour!!   :-)l   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 14:46:29 +0200t& From: Oscar van Eijk <oscar@oveas.com>: Subject: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application5 Message-ID: <20020829144629.5d576847.oscar@oveas.com>)   Hi All,    It's been a while since this group heard from me, but I finally released a new version of OMI, the menu interpreter that makes building menus as easy as using them!  \ It's an application completely written in DCL. Here's a list of the most important features:  + * Looks and feels like any VMS application,'* * No binary code, everything is plain DCL,2 * Built in calculator with floating point support,& * Built in menu file syntax validator,- * Support for unattended backgound processes,f6 * Menus can be protected with several security levels,7 * Different levels of a menu can have different owners,e * Password protection,: * Menu files can have encrypted items using multiple keys, * Support for on-the-fly menus, 8 * Priviliged users can modify menus without leaving OMI, * Full access to DCL commands,A * Configuration of the layout and the behaviour is user specific,nC * Several OMI commands for use in menu files and on the OMI prompt,,? * Use of DCL in OMI modules is very easy using the OMI ToolBox,o: * ToolBox can be very easily extended with your own tools,) * Menu specific help can easily be added.F  [ OMI is well documented with a 98 pages document in A4 format or 108 pages in letter format.D  , Have a look at http://freeware.oveas.com/omi Suggestions are always welcome!o   Regards, Oscarc   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 06:46:42 -0700! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro)t' Subject: Re: Low-level format SCSI disk9< Message-ID: <d5440555.0208290546.6d26889@posting.google.com>  1 emmanuel.choquet@hp.com (Emmanuel Choquet) wrote:n  > sariet-9-#  scu -f /dev/rrz18c
 > scu> format B That didn't work, format answered 'rrz18a is not a block device' -" which is actually true - and quit.  B Diference: at the time I tried with rrz18a not rrz18c. What is the difference, if any?o   > erase the partition table :g > # disklabel -z /dev/rrz18c > erase the disk3 > # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rrz18c bs=512 (or more)@@ *slaps forehead* how come I didn't think about dd :)) although IE thought it does not affect the actual format of the destination, justt specifies the data chunks.  C So I got a disk (I have a stack of 12, which I already formatted toeE 512 with Adaptec) and tried to format it with dd back to 520 just for.? the sake of curiosity. It runs since this morning, like 5 hourshD already, I will let it for another while to see what happens. Do you@ think dd will notice when the disk is over? I certainly hope so,E otherwise I will stop it anyway tomorrow. Comparison: Adaptec utilitysF took about 30 minutes to format it on a slower PC. It could be that ddF now converts all he reads from /dev/null (no idea what size has a nullD record :) ) in memory to 520, then back to 512 for writing it to the. device. That would explain the sluggishness...  
 Thank you, Sorinm   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 08:23:33 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) Subject: Re: MATCHC Instruction = Message-ID: <b10654c6.0208290723.65eb935c@posting.google.com>W  l SteveRay@Starband.net (Steve Ray) wrote in message news:<6a1dbcff.0208280550.577c240a@posting.google.com>...F > Thanks for the response. The string is indeed longer than what wouldH > fit into a word. It will now have to become a subroutine call that can > accomodate the size issue.  @ It wouldn't be terribly hard to view your object "string" in 65k@ blocks and iterate those blocks of your "string" over the MATCHCC instruction <x> number of times for a string of <x> blocks, esp. if @ your match string fits within one block.  You could do it with a< custom .MACRO more than likely, and just replace your MATCHCB instruction instances with your custom .MACRO (call it BLKMTCHC orA something like that.)  R0 holds the address at the end of the 65k,B block (or any block size you choose up to 65k). If you don't get a> match on MATCHC, increment your starting object pointer (usingF register displacement for example) by R0 on no match, and iterate over= MATCHC again until you get a match or run out of blocks (or adD sub-block as in the case of the last block short of an even block.) B Could conceivably be done with a custom .MACRO I think... (If yourE match string can be larger than 65k, then this would perhaps be a bitp of a different story.)  C Obviously, you basically have to consider R0-R3 volatile within the-	 .MACRO...-   Chris- -----a Chris Oliveu colive(at)technologEase(dot)comN   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:23:37 +1000g* From: James Cameron <james.cameron@hp.com>& Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system.9 Message-ID: <pan.2002.08.29.15.23.22.700061.14133@hp.com>o  1 On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:49:46 +1000, sword7 wrote:rG > On my TS10/VAX emulator, I successfully downloaded them from my Linux2 > machine into VAX system.  F While I have tried the simh simulator, and successfully booted OpenVMSG V7.2 on my Pentium III 500MHz Debian GNU/Linux machine, it runs at 1.86f/ VUPS compared to 6.0 VUPS on my VLC.  Not fast.N  G How does the TS10 compare, and where are the installation instructions?0  G I had to derive my own instructions for simh using NetBSD references ini Google:c   - build simh from source  6 - grab my VMS072 distribution CD into a temporary file   % dd < /dev/cdrom > /tmp/vms072RA (i think i did this because i used another system to read the CD)    - execute simh  	 % BIN/vax  simh> load -r VAX/ka655.bin  simh> set  rq0 ra92u simh> at rq0 /tmp/test.dsk simh> set rq1 cdrom9 simh> at rq1 /tmp/vms072 simh> boot cpu   >>> SHOW DEVICEn
 >>> BOOT DUA1e( $ backup /image dua1:vms072.b/save dua0:  * SIGHUP [had no idea how to stop simulator]  
 >>> BOOT DUA0e   --
 James Cameront   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:11:32 -0400r! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> & Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system.' Message-ID: <3D6E1D84.A5EF39DF@vcu.edu>t  H Anyone has Conquest? We had it. It was a multiplayer Startrek with heavy overtones of Risk.   jimo   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > % > Chris G. <ccc_crg@yahoo.com> wrote: @ > > They link to this obj file - does anyone know if it has been > > recompiled for AXP?i< > > I wouldn't mind running them on my Alpha VMS 7.3 system. > K > I've been trying lately to get some games up and running on my Alpha, I'm'M > finding that most games that are available on the net were compiled so longiN > ago that they can't be Vested, and in most cases if the source is available, > they won't easily compile. > 7 > Adventure and Dungeon are both on the Freeware V4 CD.- > N > Here is what I'm running on my system (I'm looking for others that will work > over a serial terminal). >  >   Advent 4.0A   - Native >   Dungeon 3.2B  - Native >   Empire 4.0    - Native >   NetHack 3.3.1 - Native >   Moria 4.5     - Vested: >   Rogue 3.0     - Vested (doesn't seem to display right) >   King          - Native4 >   Spacwr        - Native (very old Star Trek game)K >   Spacemine     - Native (Ported from an old book of Basic Games I've hadm/ >                           for about 20 Years) 4 >   Angband 2.8.0 - Native (but requires DECwindows) >  >                         Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:00:31 +0100l* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: re white boxene+ Message-ID: <akkrb2$kbc@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>l  6 "Thomas Harris" <tharris@stewart.com> wrote in message9 news:slrnamr8e2.90b.$USER@dinsdale.piranhabrothers.foo...   F > %APB-F-BADSYSROOT System root (SYSA) does not exist, check bootflags  M > So obviously I need to set some other bootflags or tinker with nvram a bit.e > Any ideas.  I Is your system really installed on SYSA, or is having A in your bootflagsI# instead of 0 just a Tru64 hangover?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:14:42 GMT<) From: THomas Harris <tharris@stewart.com>. Subject: Re: re white boxen(? Message-ID: <slrnams0hi.q5g.$USER@dinsdale.piranhabrothers.foo>I  A In article <akkrb2$kbc@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, Richard Brodie wrote:I > 8 > "Thomas Harris" <tharris@stewart.com> wrote in message; > news:slrnamr8e2.90b.$USER@dinsdale.piranhabrothers.foo...2 > G >> %APB-F-BADSYSROOT System root (SYSA) does not exist, check bootflags  > N >> So obviously I need to set some other bootflags or tinker with nvram a bit.
 >> Any ideas.8 > K > Is your system really installed on SYSA, or is having A in your bootflags % > instead of 0 just a Tru64 hangover?: >  > D I installed to dka0.  I know my way around VMS in a basic manner butC don't have all device identifiers down yet.  Have a DCL/VMS tome on A the way as someone at work lost our documentation.  But I'm a tad ( bit short of possesing an "orange wall."  . Will give changing that a try when I get home.   thanks,u Tom2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:43:45 +0100a* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: re white boxen7+ Message-ID: <akl4t4$j5i@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>M  6 "THomas Harris" <tharris@stewart.com> wrote in message9 news:slrnams0hi.q5g.$USER@dinsdale.piranhabrothers.foo...S  M > > Is your system really installed on SYSA, or is having A in your bootflagsu' > > instead of 0 just a Tru64 hangover?a > >hF > I installed to dka0.  I know my way around VMS in a basic manner but- > don't have all device identifiers down yet.a  C OK. To clarify a bit: on OpenVMS/Alpha, the bootstrap takes two hexNE parameters in addition to the boot device. The first is a system root C and the second a flag bitmask. The normal default will be 0,0 whichhH boots from the directory [SYS0]. Since the kernel isn't in a single fileD specifying a boot directory rather than a boot image is usually more useful.   G It's quite possible that the boot flag is set to A since that means (on.D Tru64) do a full (non single-user) boot. On VMS it means look in the@ directory [SYSA] for the boot files. b -fl 0,0 should boot SYS0.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Aug 2002 01:17 CDTb' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekx- Message-ID: <29AUG200201172643@gerg.tamu.edu>e  ] In article <3D6D7691.168EB72C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...M }Carl Perkins wrote: }> b8 }> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... }> }John Lewocz wrote: }> }> [snip]S }> }> Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some undergrad U }> }> on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to distinguisheU }> }> between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seen the-N }> }> postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aS }> }> f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead of  }> }> time?  }> }? }> }$ PATH = F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DEVICE", "SYNTAX_ONLY" ) + -.5 }> }F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DIRECTORY", "SYNTAX_ONLY" )3( }> }$ IF F$PARSE( PATH ) .EQS. "" THEN -7 }> }$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Path does not exist - ", PATH> }> }David J. Dachteral }> rE }> This is good in theory, but it misses one case. If there is a filetF }> called FOO.DIR that is not a directory file, the F$PARSE testing asD }> above will fail by indicating that there is a [.FOO] subdirectory7 }> even though there isn't (at least up to VMS V7.2-1).h } D }One could argue that the example you cite constitutes a file systemE }corruption, and that the lexicals and the underlying system servicesl/ }were not intended to diagnose the file system.g }  }--  }David J. Dachtera  D One could, but one would be wrong. It is just a file called FOO.DIR.G There isn't actually anything wrong with this. In fact, the file systemnG "knows" that it isn't a directory file. If you do a DIR/FULL on it, youe find something like this:a  D File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limit  C Whereas an actual directory file will give you something like this:   D File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0H                     No default version limit, Contiguous, Directory file  E Note that "Directory file" is a file attribute that the non-directoryBG file does not have. Why, exactly, it is trying to use it as a directorySD file when it "knows" that it isn't one is a question I can't answer.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 06:57:30 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0208290557.4e8111aa@posting.google.com>-  \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<29AUG200201172643@gerg.tamu.edu>..._ > In article <3D6D7691.168EB72C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...e > }Carl Perkins wrote: > }> -: > }> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... > }> }John Lewocz wrote: > }> }> [snip]U > }> }> Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some undergrad.W > }> }> on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to distinguishsW > }> }> between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure, I've seen theaP > }> }> postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists, do aU > }> }> f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead ofo
 > }> }> time?g > }> }A > }> }$ PATH = F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DEVICE", "SYNTAX_ONLY" ) + - 7 > }> }F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DIRECTORY", "SYNTAX_ONLY" )M* > }> }$ IF F$PARSE( PATH ) .EQS. "" THEN -9 > }> }$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Path does not exist - ", PATHa > }> }David J. Dachterae > }> qG > }> This is good in theory, but it misses one case. If there is a file H > }> called FOO.DIR that is not a directory file, the F$PARSE testing asF > }> above will fail by indicating that there is a [.FOO] subdirectory9 > }> even though there isn't (at least up to VMS V7.2-1).e > } F > }One could argue that the example you cite constitutes a file systemG > }corruption, and that the lexicals and the underlying system servicesi1 > }were not intended to diagnose the file system.u > }  > }--  > }David J. Dachtera > F > One could, but one would be wrong. It is just a file called FOO.DIR.I > There isn't actually anything wrong with this. In fact, the file system I > "knows" that it isn't a directory file. If you do a DIR/FULL on it, you  > find something like this:e > F > File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0& >                     No version limit > E > Whereas an actual directory file will give you something like this:m > F > File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0J >                     No default version limit, Contiguous, Directory file > G > Note that "Directory file" is a file attribute that the non-directoryaI > file does not have. Why, exactly, it is trying to use it as a directory F > file when it "knows" that it isn't one is a question I can't answer. > 
 > --- Carl    A The file system assumes that anything of the form name.DIR;1 is a F directory file. Everything else is considered a non-directory file. IfE the name.DIR;1 file doesn't have the directory attribute set for some E reason, then it is considered a corrupted directory file. Apparently,mC F$PARSE doesn't check if it's corrupted or not. That's good becauseeF the corruption could be caused by other reasons, and you would want to? know that there is such a directory when you ask. IOW, by usingrB F$PARSE you are asking "Is there such a directory?", not "Is there7 such a directory that has not been corrupted somehow?".A   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanM spamsink2001 at yahoo.comM   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 09:48:28 -0700, From: jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz)+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week = Message-ID: <89cc5656.0208290848.607f6d3a@posting.google.com>h  \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<27AUG200220451223@gerg.tamu.edu>...2 > jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes...X > }system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A1315C.FE064D03@SendSpamHere.ORG>...q > }> In article <89cc5656.0208270727.7bd7936b@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes:  >>>>snip >>exists( > }> without knowing the path?  C'mon... > }  > }if [ -d $EMPTY_DIR ]; theng > }    echo "EMPTY_DIR exists" > }fis > } F > }You'll notice that EMPTY_DIR is an environment variable whose exact. > }content I don't need to know ahead of time. > } 2 > }In DCL you get an "" if it exists but is empty.4 > }In DCL you get an "" if it does NOT exist at all. > } G > }In unix I don't have to transform something like [foo.bar.baz] into n1 > }[foo.bar]baz.dir just to make the distinction.a > } 
 > }Got it? >  > $ Dir/NoOut 'empty_dir's > $ If $STATUS .EQ. %X1001c04a > $ Then* > $   Write Sys$Output "no such directory" > $ Else, > $   Write Sys$Output "''empty_dir' exists"	 > $ EndIfs > H > You can suppress the error message that the DIRECTORY command gives if: > you really want to, the $STATUS value will still be set. > 	 > Got it?   B No need to be snippy to me because I wasn't addressing this toward you.F I was addressing someone who was in essence asking me why I would test the,F value of a variable without knowing ahead of time what that value was.  If B I know the value of something ahead of time, then it must not be a	 variable.l   Here's what I was trying to do:t  @ The other unix boy and myself on our team were trying to get our developmentaD effort off on the right foot by trying to implement a source control	 and builddA procedure.   We of course campaigned for management to get us CMS6? (which I'd used before), but they balked at the cost.  (We werew< stunned too, since we're used to tools with roughly the sameC functionality -- minus gui -- for free).  THe Vms boys in the group)5 not only did not help, but some rather looked down onaB the entire concept of source control (apparently only people using
 inferior OS'stE need such a thing, and besides, it's just so cumbersome).   Also, thetE claim was made that they knew ahead of time how much it cost and thatlE management would shoot it down.   However, when we tried to write DCLr scripts to implement some C primitive source control us two unix weenies were on our own.   Theh VMS wizardstE weren't interested in helping.   So I guess it was never really about  the $$$.  F Anyway, I took the stab at writing the scripts, and my intent was that ae: user would set a logical like SC$LIBRARY to something like? [user.test.safe].   Then, hopefully, have created it as well.  l However, if @ the user forgot either one, or both these steps (or fat-fingered@ something), then the script would try to fix things as gently as possible.   The last thingF we needed was to have people complaining "see, told you source control was cumbersome!".w  D Regarding "official" source repositories: we could ensure that theseE exist ahead of time.   We just wanted people on board and to see that5! this takes seconds of their time.h  ! So we ended up with the following    $   DEFINE/NOLOG SYS$OUTPUT NL:- $   DEFINE/NOLOG SYS$ERROR NL: $2& $   CREATE/DIR 'f$trnlnm("SC$LIBRARY") $a= $   IF f$locate("CREATE-I-EXISTS", f$message($STATUS)) .EQ. 1- $   THEN* $       DEFINE/NOLOG SYS$OUTPUT 'MY_OUTPUT( $       DEFINE/NOLOG SYS$ERROR 'MY_ERRORF $       WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Library directory: ", f$trnlnm("SC$LIBRARY") $   ELSE* $       DEFINE/NOLOG SYS$OUTPUT 'MY_OUTPUT( $       DEFINE/NOLOG SYS$ERROR 'MY_ERROR@ $       WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Directory ", f$trnlnm("SC$LIBRARY"), " couldn't be created" $       EXIT	 $   ENDIF  $w  C It works.  But it took a ridiculously long amount of time.  Is thissE the best way?   I don't know.   Even after we did this I asked our 15  yr VMS veteranD if there was a better way and he screwed around for about 10 minutesC with this problem before he came up with something equally ugly anduB almost as long.   And we don't even know if that would have workedF because we didn't test it.   Even judging from the responses that I'veD received every VMS guru has their own circuitous way of doing thingsF and they're all different.   Someone responded that I should have readD posts.  I was looking in this group before I began this endeavor andE this is where I saw posts saying "find out if [foo.bar.baz] exists byoE doing a f$search([foo.bar]baz.dir)".   Yeah, that's quick and eleganti and general.  D Why can't DEC(or COMPAQ, or HP) add a lexical like f$dir_exists() toF the language?   Furthermore, why is seem ok with VMSers?   It's almostF like a religion: "We run around with one shoe because Brian the Chosen one did and C saw that it was good.  It is heresy to put the other shoe on".   If-? you look around, almost every other language undergoes periodico@ improvement.   The original unix shell, the Bourne shell, reallyD sucked for interactive work.  Since then we have the Korn shell, and# Bourne Again shells, which are bothoB pretty spiffy once you learn the ropes.  And they include periodicF improvements. The original VI was great.   But even vi lovers realizedD there were improvements to be made.  Unlike the attitude I see here,C there was no "Improve what God himself gave us?"   Now we have VIM,P for VI Improved.> And it's not blasphemy to suggest improvements.   And many are implemented.  D VMSers all grieve when some VMS system gets replaced with pcs.   ButC they never see their arrogance as a factor in its demise.   If somesE third-shift operator whacks the wrong files because he's in the wrong F directory because his prompt is a meaningless 'MFGSYS> ' then everyone? but DCL gets the blame.   How much coding do you think would beeD involved having a prompt that tells you where you are without havingF to resort to 'cd.com' or 32 character limits, or other such duct-tape?                           > A > In most cases, and this is true with most OSes with non-trivialTA > security, the best way to find out if something will work is toa@ > try it and find out. If it works, it works. If it doesn't workE > you will get a useful and informative error message (well, you will5B > if you are using VMS) and also have the information available toD > you programatically as well so that the program can then correctly@ > handle the error. You might consider what happens in your Unix@ > example if the directory exists but is protected such that youD > have no access to it. You may, or may not (I don't know), find outD > that it exists but you still won't be able to, for example, create > a file in it.  > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 12:32:12 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekl3 Message-ID: <QePvnFo7IPX6@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  l In article <89cc5656.0208290848.607f6d3a@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes:   > ! > Here's what I was trying to do:  > B > The other unix boy and myself on our team were trying to get our
 > developmentaF > effort off on the right foot by trying to implement a source control > and build C > procedure.   We of course campaigned for management to get us CMSoA > (which I'd used before), but they balked at the cost.  (We wereb> > stunned too, since we're used to tools with roughly the sameE > functionality -- minus gui -- for free).  THe Vms boys in the group 7 > not only did not help, but some rather looked down on-D > the entire concept of source control (apparently only people using > inferior OS's.G > need such a thing, and besides, it's just so cumbersome).   Also, thelG > claim was made that they knew ahead of time how much it cost and thatsG > management would shoot it down.   However, when we tried to write DCLO > scripts to implement some E > primitive source control us two unix weenies were on our own.   Thel
 > VMS wizardsiG > weren't interested in helping.   So I guess it was never really about,
 > the $$$. >   9 	Well.. an answer would be to use Visual Source Safe.  It-= 	has various Unix clients (not sure about servers) but no VMS > 	clients.  The answer to that conundrum is to NFS mount a Unix? 	partition on VMS, do  your pulls from Unix and run your customa< 	DCL script on VMS to do the build.  It worked very well forA 	me and VSS is moderately priced if I remember (quick check shows ; 	$549.. not sure how many clients or servers, you can clicka 	around at the web site).P    http://msdn.microsoft.com/ssafe/   	Unix clients are 3rd party:   http://www.mainsoft.com/  / http://www.mainsoft.com/products/vss_price.htmli  $ 	$625 per seat for the Unix product.  A 	If you don't want to spend money, you could probably find a gooda, 	Linux version control, over a hundred here:  = http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=52o  6 	and NFS mount back to VMS.  Someday , recompile Linux. 	products for VMS and go!  Maybe... hopefully!   				Rob.  B Men with walkie-talkies                 I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights wavin'             You know it makes me wonder-G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstreamc> The clock reads daylight savings        Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 12:44:44 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeko3 Message-ID: <S4hLp4VjAO5q@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  l In article <89cc5656.0208290848.607f6d3a@posting.google.com>, jlewocz@poczta.wprost.pl (John Lewocz) writes:  E > functionality -- minus gui -- for free).  THe Vms boys in the groupp7 > not only did not help, but some rather looked down ontD > the entire concept of source control (apparently only people using > inferior OS'sa; > need such a thing, and besides, it's just so cumbersome)..  ? 	I wanted to comment on this seperately so as to not to detractrD 	from those other comments.  In a very real sense they have a point.  D 	Typically, what I do is never purge when I am working on something.@ 	I may have several dozen versions (file versions) and yes it is> 	rather cumbersome to do various diffs to find where somethingF 	came from or what I was thinking.  Hence, a Visual (web or otherwise)> 	product is a good thing.  (Yes, GUIs do have *some* redeeming 	value).  D 	After finished, a nice purge down through the tree keeping a modest$ 	amount of versions always suffices.  F 	There are upside advantages to Source control.  They only keep diffs,E 	they are a database and typically allow much more powerful searches/:B 	comparisons.   But VMS is superior to other platforms because of 4 	built in versions... i.e. built-in version control.   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:36:19 +0100p% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>? Subject: Re: Simple cluster>8 Message-ID: <hlmrmu8a9ul2b9n282m2o83rtotpqhk7ch@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:25:12 -0400, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote:h   >Ed Wilts wrote:H >> In *all* cases, make sure you don't lose network connectivity between= >> the cluster hosts. LAVCs do not like losing the network...3 >>P >No kidding!  I went from a 3-node DSSI-based VAXcluster (which never went down)L >to a 2-node SCSI-based Alpha cluster.  I frequently lose the entire clusterB >courtesy of remote network problems over which I have no control. > Q >What is the cheapest way I can fix this problem?  I think a 2nd Ethernet adapter P >in my ES40's with a crossover TP cable between the two machines might suffice.   E Yes, I think that;'s quite common.. Also you might investigate havingmE an additional switch purely for the cluster. Make sure it's reliable!l  M >Note that Alpha DSSI adapters do not support SCS, and I don't have the bucks * >right now to add Memory Channel adapters. >  > - JB   -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:00:51 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: Simple cluster ; Message-ID: <01KLVAUD2DIA9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l   > > > 2+1=30/ > > > 3/2=1 (integer math, remainder truncated)  > > >a# > > > Therefore, quorum = 1, right?i > > # > > QUORUM = (EXPECTED_VOTES + 2)/2a > > O > > (2+2)/2 = 2 so the quorum is 2. If it were one the cluster could partition.t >  > Try again: > ! > QUORUM = (EXPECTED_VOTES + 1)/2" >                            ^ > 2+1=3r > 3/2=1d  H Sorry Dave, quorum is 2 for a 3-machine cluster.  See section 2.3 of theE manual OPENVMS CLUSTER SYSTEMS, which explains the (correct) formula lH above.  Even without the math, you can see that it must be 2.  The wholeD purpose of quorum is to keep the cluster from partitioning.  This isC done by requiring an absolute majority of the votes to be present. n4 (EXPECTED_VOTES + 2)/2, rounded down, is the same asG ((EXPECTED_VOTES)/2, rounded down, + 1), which might be a better way toD
 think of it. @  G If it were 1, suppose you lose connection.  Each member could think IT e& is the cluster.  Bad state of affairs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:29:27 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Simple clustert) Message-ID: <3D6E0597.B9DE31E7@127.0.0.1>r   Jonathan Boswell wrote:y >  > Ed Wilts wrote:yI > > In *all* cases, make sure you don't lose network connectivity betweenx> > > the cluster hosts. LAVCs do not like losing the network... > Q > No kidding!  I went from a 3-node DSSI-based VAXcluster (which never went down).M > to a 2-node SCSI-based Alpha cluster.  I frequently lose the entire cluster}C > courtesy of remote network problems over which I have no control.$ > R > What is the cheapest way I can fix this problem?  I think a 2nd Ethernet adapterP > in my ES40's with a crossover TP cable between the two machines might suffice.N > Note that Alpha DSSI adapters do not support SCS, and I don't have the bucks+ > right now to add Memory Channel adapters.   $ Additional network is your best bet.  A As Keith says, DSSI on Alpha does pass SCS (and MSCP) traffic butyG there's no support for booting over DSSI as all the Alpha DSSI adapterse) I've seen only "work" once VMS is booted.t  D DSSI will give better throughput than 10Mb Ethernet, so go for 100MbH cards if network is the option. Keep the crossed network cable away fromD the notwork! If you have spare DSSI cards, this will also provide an% alternate cluster communication path.I  < Memory Channel is falling into disuse. It does have specificE applications but if all you are interested in is some resiliency, theIE second network will more than suffice. Current recommendations need a:% hub as well as memory channel cards. f   -- n? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:46:57 +0200t: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: Simple clusters/ Message-ID: <akl1i9$d4c5@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>"   Nic Clews wrote: > Jonathan Boswell wrote:  >  >>Ed Wilts wrote:, >>H >>>In *all* cases, make sure you don't lose network connectivity between= >>>the cluster hosts. LAVCs do not like losing the network...  >>Q >>No kidding!  I went from a 3-node DSSI-based VAXcluster (which never went down)rM >>to a 2-node SCSI-based Alpha cluster.  I frequently lose the entire cluster C >>courtesy of remote network problems over which I have no control.e >>R >>What is the cheapest way I can fix this problem?  I think a 2nd Ethernet adapterP >>in my ES40's with a crossover TP cable between the two machines might suffice.N >>Note that Alpha DSSI adapters do not support SCS, and I don't have the bucks+ >>right now to add Memory Channel adapters.i >  > & > Additional network is your best bet. > C > As Keith says, DSSI on Alpha does pass SCS (and MSCP) traffic but I > there's no support for booting over DSSI as all the Alpha DSSI adaptersg+ > I've seen only "work" once VMS is booted.r >.    oM Somehow our Alphas managed for years to boot via DSSI and HDS05, HSD10 or MTI. Controllers.    F > DSSI will give better throughput than 10Mb Ethernet, so go for 100MbJ > cards if network is the option. Keep the crossed network cable away fromF > the notwork! If you have spare DSSI cards, this will also provide an' > alternate cluster communication path.  > > > Memory Channel is falling into disuse. It does have specificG > applications but if all you are interested in is some resiliency, thewG > second network will more than suffice. Current recommendations need a ' > hub as well as memory channel cards.   >      --    - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardsw   Karl Rohwedder               eC iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig bA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 H  E-Mail: rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de        | iT-IngTeam(at)t-online.de .          karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:46:30 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>y Subject: RE: Simple cluster"K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA4D@rlghncst964.usps.gov>m  @ I'd suggest you use DE-504s and use TWO sets of crossover cables between the nodes...   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----C From: "Karl Rohwedder" [mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de]i' Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:46 AM, To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"  Subject: RE: Simple clustera     Nic Clews wrote: > Jonathan Boswell wrote:  >a >>Ed Wilts wrote:m >>H >>>In *all* cases, make sure you don't lose network connectivity between= >>>the cluster hosts. LAVCs do not like losing the network...a >>K >>No kidding!  I went from a 3-node DSSI-based VAXcluster (which never wentd down)dE >>to a 2-node SCSI-based Alpha cluster.  I frequently lose the entired clusteroC >>courtesy of remote network problems over which I have no control.e >>J >>What is the cheapest way I can fix this problem?  I think a 2nd Ethernet adapteroG >>in my ES40's with a crossover TP cable between the two machines might  suffice.H >>Note that Alpha DSSI adapters do not support SCS, and I don't have the bucksc+ >>right now to add Memory Channel adapters.m >  >l& > Additional network is your best bet. >aC > As Keith says, DSSI on Alpha does pass SCS (and MSCP) traffic but I > there's no support for booting over DSSI as all the Alpha DSSI adaptersv+ > I've seen only "work" once VMS is booted.o >o    I Somehow our Alphas managed for years to boot via DSSI and HDS05, HSD10 orv MTIa Controllers.    F > DSSI will give better throughput than 10Mb Ethernet, so go for 100MbJ > cards if network is the option. Keep the crossed network cable away fromF > the notwork! If you have spare DSSI cards, this will also provide an' > alternate cluster communication path.s >t> > Memory Channel is falling into disuse. It does have specificG > applications but if all you are interested in is some resiliency, the G > second network will more than suffice. Current recommendations need ae& > hub as well as memory channel cards. >c     --  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardsn   Karl RohwedderB iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843EG  E-Mail: rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de        | iT-IngTeam(at)t-online.de .          karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 14:10:25 +0100R* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Simple cluster)+ Message-ID: <akl6f3$hrs@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>M  Y "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:3D6E0597.B9DE31E7@127.0.0.1...t  T > > What is the cheapest way I can fix this problem?  I think a 2nd Ethernet adapterR > > in my ES40's with a crossover TP cable between the two machines might suffice.P > > Note that Alpha DSSI adapters do not support SCS, and I don't have the bucks- > > right now to add Memory Channel adapters.t > & > Additional network is your best bet. >mF > DSSI will give better throughput than 10Mb Ethernet, so go for 100Mb! > cards if network is the option.d > > > Memory Channel is falling into disuse. It does have specificG > applications but if all you are interested in is some resiliency, thel( > second network will more than suffice.  N And if not, Gigabit Ethernet might be a more attractive option than MC anyway. Certainly one to bear in mind.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 09:24:52 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Simple cluster(3 Message-ID: <jd+76+9wYbBJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  T In article <3D6E0597.B9DE31E7@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > > > Memory Channel is falling into disuse. It does have specificG > applications but if all you are interested in is some resiliency, theoG > second network will more than suffice. Current recommendations need an' > hub as well as memory channel cards. s >   : 	Actually... disuse may be true.  However, I know of a newE 	site soon to get Memory Channel and a hub.  You can google regardingnB 	Memory Channel issues.  Apparently with ES45 the hub is required.  6 	Two node fibre option MC II has been flawless for me.  A 	Personally... I'd not do without it if I could.  With NotWorkinghB 	issues rearing their ugly head now and again (rarely, but "stuff"> 	happens you know) it is very painful to have the cluster down) 	because you lost the notwork connection.l   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:11:21 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: Simple clustern, Message-ID: <3D6E3998.F2E229BE@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:eJ > Sorry Dave, quorum is 2 for a 3-machine cluster.  See section 2.3 of the  H > If it were 1, suppose you lose connection.  Each member could think IT( > is the cluster.  Bad state of affairs.  L Quorum could be 1 for a 96 machine cluster. Your boot node would have 1 voteL and all others would have 0 votes. Lose the boot node and all other machinesI freeze, but you could lose any number of satellites without affecting the J remaining cluster. If a satellite looses a connection to the boot node, itN would freeze even if it has its own system disk since "its" cluster would have& 0 votes of the 1 needed to stay awake.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:01:10 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Simple clusterr) Message-ID: <3D6E3736.C13D9980@127.0.0.1>u   Richard Brodie wrote:  > [ > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:3D6E0597.B9DE31E7@127.0.0.1...r > ( > > Additional network is your best bet. > > H > > DSSI will give better throughput than 10Mb Ethernet, so go for 100Mb# > > cards if network is the option.g > >u@ > > Memory Channel is falling into disuse. It does have specificI > > applications but if all you are interested in is some resiliency, thep* > > second network will more than suffice. > P > And if not, Gigabit Ethernet might be a more attractive option than MC anyway.  > Certainly one to bear in mind.  G Well, I considered mentioning Gigabit, however Verell's presentation oftF CI speed compared seemed to suggest that overall 100 Mb was preferableF to Gb. He also said he was on a budget, but gigabit is cheaper than MCF and if volume of data transfer is the issue it should definitely be on! the shortlist. Good point though.c  E I expect* in his cluster the data transfer is occurring over SCSI, sonG the SCS traffic is probably locking traffic, where latency is (or could H be) the issue. Mind you, the guys main problem is that the network turns) into a net through which nothing passes. s  3 http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/Boaen_1.PPTa  ! *Guess is probably more accurate!  -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesO nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:47:25 +0200h% From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de>d Subject: Re: Telnet Port% Message-ID: <3d6dd18d$1@news.post.ch>   
 Hi Francisco,a   tryo  ! tcpip > set service telnet /port=-     Jakobo  = "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> schrieb im NewsbeitragT; news:g7db9.35296$Hd4.7632757@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...nI > Hi, It's possible in tcpip (openvms 7.2) to either add another port fortI > telnet or change the port?. The thing is that way, I could connect fromiJ > outside, using an internet address. I think. Thanks for all your help. IK > have been away from vms for a few years, but I'll get sharp fast and willsL > commit to help in this group, at least few times a week as soon as I get a > little sharper. THanks >i > Francisco$ >  >  >t >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:25:56 -0400 , From: "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> Subject: Re: Telnet PortA Message-ID: <4bpb9.45981$Hd4.7841604@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>u    It's possible to have two ports?  0 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> wrote in message news:3d6dd18d$1@news.post.ch...- > Hi Francisco,  >  > tryo >a# > tcpip > set service telnet /port=s >v >  > Jakob  >o? > "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> schrieb im Newsbeitrag = > news:g7db9.35296$Hd4.7632757@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...vK > > Hi, It's possible in tcpip (openvms 7.2) to either add another port for K > > telnet or change the port?. The thing is that way, I could connect from L > > outside, using an internet address. I think. Thanks for all your help. IH > > have been away from vms for a few years, but I'll get sharp fast and willL > > commit to help in this group, at least few times a week as soon as I get an > > little sharper. THanks > >t
 > > Francisco- > >  > >. > >  > >o >i >h   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Aug 2002 13:15:16 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance6 Message-ID: <akl6p3$1k2uct$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  = In article <Ws4b9.364974$q53.11990354@twister.austin.rr.com>, 4 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes: > Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com wrote: > L >: OpenVMS, as the article indicated, was just one of many types of systems. >: iA >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/tC >    hp Alphaserver technology helps Commerzbank tolerate disaster V >    on September 11 >   G While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/is G a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related tooB 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureH locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingJ what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacenterL in the WTC building??  And, considering 9/11, why would anyone put somethingI that critical anywhere it might be a target in the future??  Let's take a2C look at alternatives.  How many terrorists do you think could find :E Forty-Fort, PA on a map, much less on the ground??  And yet, there isoD highspeed INTERNET available and a more than adequate local airport.G Even a nice small airport for that corporate Cesna to fly you to PhillyuE to catch the corporate Lear. :-)  Not only that, building costs are aoK fraction of what they are in any major metro area.  And there are literally-G thousands of locations like this all over the country.  All it takes tolH have real security and reliability is a change of mindset.  And that's a& lot harder to develop than technology.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 08:40:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)d6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance3 Message-ID: <0z51$Bfaz$V9@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  e In article <akl6p3$1k2uct$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:h? > In article <Ws4b9.364974$q53.11990354@twister.austin.rr.com>,U6 > 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes: >> Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com wrote:i >> tM >>: OpenVMS, as the article indicated, was just one of many types of systems.X >>: B >>    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/D >>    hp Alphaserver technology helps Commerzbank tolerate disaster  >>    on September 11  >>   > I > While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/is-I > a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related tohD > 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscure/ > locations and don't advertise where they are.   B That works for terrorists, but most people who can afford disasterE tolerance also need something that works for hurricanes/tornados/etc._  @ So the disaster tolerance software features are still necessary,8 even though one potential disaster might be less likely.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:58:12 GMTh& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance& Message-ID: <3D6E26CD.FEB3460A@hp.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I > While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/is I > a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related toeD > 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscure/ > locations and don't advertise where they are.   K With the money you save on rent from moving out of the big city, maybe you nG could *afford* two sites! You're right; it fixes the problem as related I to 9/11, but if you're running a truly critical service, you're probably lH still awake nights worrying about earthquakes, flash floods, tornadoes, L hurricanes, chemical spills, fires, and the new college intern accidentally  hitting the Big Red Button.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:37:58 -0400i; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>k6 Subject: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster ToleranceK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   9 Any of those old Minuteman missile silos still available?i  $ Talk about a Disaster-Tolerant site!  / One of those would be just perfect for some of f0 those 100,000 U racks I've got in the warehouse.   :^)a   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----5 From: "Bill Gunshannon" [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu] ' Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:15 AM  To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 6 Subject: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance    = In article <Ws4b9.364974$q53.11990354@twister.austin.rr.com>,.8      LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes: > Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com wrote: >cL >: OpenVMS, as the article indicated, was just one of many types of systems. >:A >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/0B >    hp Alphaserver technology helps Commerzbank tolerate disaster >    on September 11 >   G While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isaG a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related to B 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureH locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingJ what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacenterL in the WTC building??  And, considering 9/11, why would anyone put somethingI that critical anywhere it might be a target in the future??  Let's take ahB look at alternatives.  How many terrorists do you think could findE Forty-Fort, PA on a map, much less on the ground??  And yet, there is D highspeed INTERNET available and a more than adequate local airport.G Even a nice small airport for that corporate Cesna to fly you to Philly E to catch the corporate Lear. :-)  Not only that, building costs are apK fraction of what they are in any major metro area.  And there are literallyeG thousands of locations like this all over the country.  All it takes toiH have real security and reliability is a change of mindset.  And that's a& lot harder to develop than technology.   bill   --J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 10:02:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance3 Message-ID: <ddMWE1bRUOv5@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:e > ; > Any of those old Minuteman missile silos still available?e > & > Talk about a Disaster-Tolerant site!   Unless the disaster is Flood.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:28:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance, Message-ID: <3D6E3D9E.667F450D@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:I > While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isDI > a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related touD > 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscure/ > locations and don't advertise where they are.-  N That still doesn't prevent that obscure building from catching fire, or from aK local delivery truck from spilling its fuel just in front of that building,mJ building destroyed by flooding or hurricane, whole area evacuated due to aG train derailment releasing dangerous gases and the list goes on and on.c  N Terrorism is a small reason for disaster recovery, unless you are in palestineB where everyone expects every building to be destroyed once a year.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Aug 2002 15:17:17 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)o: Subject: Re: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance: Message-ID: <akldtt$i62$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  K In message <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,m>  "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:/ >One of those would be just perfect for some ofh1 >those 100,000 U racks I've got in the warehouse.d  ? A 100,000 U rack is over 50 miles tall, where do you buy those?p   >:^)    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:'L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:26:05 -0400o; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>e: Subject: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster ToleranceK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA52@rlghncst964.usps.gov>v  0 At the Big and Tall Computers' store, of course.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----: From: "David Jones" [mailto:JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu]( Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:17 AM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" : Subject: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance    K In message <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,5>  "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:/ >One of those would be just perfect for some ofn1 >those 100,000 U racks I've got in the warehouse.a  ? A 100,000 U rack is over 50 miles tall, where do you buy those?-   >:^)    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:eL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:32:15 GMTb1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)e6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance= Message-ID: <38rb9.371330$q53.12222637@twister.austin.rr.com>t  : Webb, William W Raleigh, NC (wwebb1@email.usps.gov) wrote: : ; : Any of those old Minuteman missile silos still available?d : & : Talk about a Disaster-Tolerant site! : 1 : One of those would be just perfect for some of  2 : those 100,000 U racks I've got in the warehouse. :  : :^)y : / Taking a cue from Jack Welch, former CEO of GE:n  &    http://www.progress.org/corpw30.htm9    The Export-Import Bank: Corporate Welfare At Its Worstn   G   "...In fact, while taking the Ex-Im Bank subsidies, GE was extremely  G    public about it's "globalization" plans to lay off American workers (H    and move jobs to Third World countries. Jack Welch, the longtime CEO H    of GE stated, "Ideally, you'd have every plant you own on a barge..."  G Perhaps it's time for barge- or ship-mounted datacenters that could be t+ moved to the cheapest labor market du jour.   L Or purchase inactive offshore drilling rigs and have them installed outside G the U.S. 12-mile limit, and just fly in workers from the cheapest labord) market du jour: India, Vietnam, Kenya....w  E Ford Motor Company has already moved IT-enabled jobs from the U.S. to # India, saving $ 30-60 million/year:i  /    http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/i.    software/appdev/story/0,10801,58739,00.html1    Ford opens IT hub in India to save millions | k'    Computerworld News & Feature Stories   A   "..Ford expects to save $30 million to $60 million per year..."   ? The Chairman of the Programmers' Guild claims the U.S. paid forl> the high-speed data links to India, so telecomm costs wouldn't be an issue for Ford.n    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:08:16 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance8 Message-ID: <r4esmu8j9nlpi34n8oshb3ikh8gp6utq37@4ax.com>  B On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:58:12 GMT, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> wrote:  M >hurricanes, chemical spills, fires, and the new college intern accidentally r >hitting the Big Red Button.  ! Ah, the Bill Clinton syndrome :-)    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:36:29 -0400 6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance4 Message-ID: <3D6E3F7D.1080508@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>  , [newsgroups other than comp.os.vms trimmed.] Joshua Cope wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I >>While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isNI >>a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related to1D >>9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscure/ >>locations and don't advertise where they are.e >   M > With the money you save on rent from moving out of the big city, maybe you  I > could *afford* two sites! You're right; it fixes the problem as related K > to 9/11, but if you're running a truly critical service, you're probably  J > still awake nights worrying about earthquakes, flash floods, tornadoes, N > hurricanes, chemical spills, fires, and the new college intern accidentally  > hitting the Big Red Button.   E Back-hoe operators that helpfully let you know that your independant  D redundant network suppliers decided they could share the same fiber  bundle for your T3 lines.l   -johnt! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hpe   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:09:01 -0400t; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>f: Subject: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster ToleranceK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA53@rlghncst964.usps.gov>n   Is your math off?h   1U = 1.75 inches.    100000 U * 1.75 = 175000 inchesi 175000 in / 12   = 14583.33 ft 14583. ft /5280  = 2.76 mi.   " I'd originaly typed 10,000U (which" would be 1458 feet-still too big),  but went with 100,000 to utilize hyperbole as a humorous device.u  % It seems that U.S. missile silos run r between 80 to 180 feet deep.  . That means that your racks could be as tall as/ 548U in the smaller silos and as tall as 1234U e in the larger ones.   2 Don't forget to allow space for airflow and power.   :^)i   WWWebb   And somebody's already done it.e  1 http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0500/050400j1.htmn  < To live up to guarantees of 99.9 percent data availability, : some ASPs have toughened their physical locations. Micron : recently opened a data center in a former missile silo in  Idaho. o   :^) :^) :^)a   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----" From: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC ( Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:26 AM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" : Subject: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance    0 At the Big and Tall Computers' store, of course.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----: From: "David Jones" [mailto:JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu]( Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 11:17 AM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"s: Subject: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance    K In message <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,r>  "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:/ >One of those would be just perfect for some ofi1 >those 100,000 U racks I've got in the warehouse.e  ? A 100,000 U rack is over 50 miles tall, where do you buy those?n   >:^)    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:33:11 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster ToleranceC Message-ID: <a1sb9.290314$2p2.11775725@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>c  > "David Jones" <JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message4 news:akldtt$i62$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > In message@ <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,@ >  "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:1 > >One of those would be just perfect for some ofa3 > >those 100,000 U racks I've got in the warehouse.o >qA > A 100,000 U rack is over 50 miles tall, where do you buy those?y  9 Probably the same place you buy your 50+ foot yardsticks.    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Aug 2002 16:37:52 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) > Subject: Re: RE: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance: Message-ID: <aklil0$j5h$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   >Is your math off?   yes, 50 miles is way wrong.t    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:44:40 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster ToleranceI Message-ID: <Ybsb9.127715$8aG1.1870@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a  F "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messageE news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA51@rlghncst964.usps.gov...  > ; > Any of those old Minuteman missile silos still available?y        #include <std.disclaimer.h> www.missilebases.com www.siloworld.com.  # (sites aren't responding right now)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:48:40 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e0 Subject: Re: Various tidbits about HP financials0 Message-ID: <aklc89$n40$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:6  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"l@ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message+ > news:akj0mh$7i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...e > 4 >>Well Freddy as a number of people have pointed out8 >>its quite convenient to have the merger as a catch all4 >>for re-structuring that would in any case have had1 >>to be done because of the collapse in revenues.s >>5 >>Sun has also had to re-structure because of fallingp3 >>demand, we don't have the convenience of a merger % >>to cover our restructuring charges.w >> >> > 	 > Andrew,p > F > Mergers NEVER go as smoothly as execs think. There are always hiddenK > surprises and additional costs in dealing with the mechanics of mergers -oN > having lived through four myself I have seen this happen over and over. To aN > large extent HP's management time is still taken up with merger issues - I'm? > not making excuses for them, but just stating a fact of life.d > K > Face it - business sucks for everyone in the computer industry right now.fJ > And dislocations and dropped-balls that do happen in a merger can affectL > short-term results. It remains to be seen whether this stays true over the > longer  term.o >     # No that isn't the point of my post.-  , HP's stock price has not fallen very heavily5 despite a huge Q2 loss because that loss is accordingo< to the numbers HP have posted mostly due to "re-structuring"( charges apparently caused by the merger.  9 You can argue that losing money in 2 of your 4 major BU'st: and having profits squeezed in a 3rd while seing declining6 revenues in 3 out of 4 and a worsening market share is bad.  B But HP have been able to show an operating profit prior to merger C "re-structuring" charges. Hence the markets not writing their stock  down.   ; A number of people have commented that the merger is reallyo@ terribly convenient. If in doubt and if its remotely justifiable+ dump the as much cost into the merger fund.,  < The merger costs have escalated since the initial filing how8 much of this is due to the merger and how much is it due9 to the fact that the merger is happening when business ish tight.  8 If the answer is that the numbers would be the same then8 fine, if the merger costs include provision for declines; in business due to market rather than merger then take thema3 out. Put them into the costs for the bottom line HP42 number and see if the company is still profitable.  5 It is only then that you will get a realistic view oni2 the relative position of HP and any other company.       Regardsu   Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:41:29 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>:, Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 Doc set... plain jane' Message-ID: <3D6E0869.6F7FE5B6@aaa.com>c  & Where is this ? US, Europe, Sweden :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm   David M Smith wrote: > ; > I received my Alpha V7.3-1 update kit today, 28-Aug-2002.U > 9 > "tech support" <tech_support@sp32.com> wrote in messaget+ > news:umpm93jeg6h7b9@corp.supernews.com... J > > When did everyone receive 7.3-1 software and doc? We didn't receive it > yet.I > > Just wondering how far behind we are in getting our shipment. Thanks.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:06:52 +0200 ( From: "Lex Beekman" <a.w.beekman@wxs.nl>/ Subject: watchdog V2.1 and Console Manager V2.2a* Message-ID: <akkdjn$qc0$1@reader12.wxs.nl>  G Could anybody tell me if there are any new scan-files (.port-files) fore> OpenVMS V7.1 ?. For the moment we are looking for .port -filesJ concerning new SYSTEM-% messages. At the site of Computer Associates there) is nothing new to tell, so maybe there isnK somebody around us who knows where to get those files, if there are any new? files ofcourse.    Thanks for helping me out !.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Aug 2002 07:54:55 GMT) From: Harald Harders <h.harders@tu-bs.de>h( Subject: Where are fonts on VMS systems?< Message-ID: <slrnamrkrn.ij6.h.harders@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>   Hello,  D I am programming a patch for gnuplot which embeddes postscript fonts: (pfa, pfb) and TrueType fonts (ttf) into postscript plots.B This patch searches for the font files in a system dependent path.B Since I don't have a VMS system running I need your help to define the path for VMS. C Thus, my question is: Where are font files (pfa, pfb, ttf) normallylB stored in a VMS system? Are there any environmental variables that	 may help?.   Thank you for any help,a Harald   --  9 Harald Harders                              Langer Kamp 8a@ Institut fr Werkstoffe                     D-38106 Braunschweig3 Technische Universitt Braunschweig         GermanyAK E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de                  Tel: +49 (0)5 31 - 3 91 - 30 62cK WWW   : http://www.tu-bs.de/institute/ifw/  Fax: +49 (0)5 31 - 3 91 - 30 58i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:58:20 GMT2F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman), Subject: Re: Where are fonts on VMS systems?0 Message-ID: <MTob9.21$C5.62526@news.cpqcorp.net>  h In article <slrnamrkrn.ij6.h.harders@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>, Harald Harders <h.harders@tu-bs.de> writes: > E >I am programming a patch for gnuplot which embeddes postscript fontst; >(pfa, pfb) and TrueType fonts (ttf) into postscript plots.nC >This patch searches for the font files in a system dependent path.rC >Since I don't have a VMS system running I need your help to definee >the path for VMS.D >Thus, my question is: Where are font files (pfa, pfb, ttf) normallyC >stored in a VMS system? Are there any environmental variables that 
 >may help?  = This may be quite a challenge to develop if you don't have ant: OpenVMS system to debug on, but the place to start looking7 is usually SYS$COMMON:[SYSFONT] and the sub-directories 	 below it.   > There is usually also a logical name SYS$PS_FONT_METRICS which- points to a directory containing *.AFM files.g  < This may well depend upon having DECwindows installed, which6 not everyone does.  Installing some of the optional or< third-party printing packages can also alter what font files are available on the system.  : There are some programs in the DECW$EXAMPLES directory and9 sub-directory that may be useful in obtaining information % on the fonts which are on the system.-   -- l(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 01:30:19 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho)0 Subject: Re: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK= Message-ID: <d0141774.0208290030.787f6ee2@posting.google.com>    Joe,  B BlackBox (http://www.blackbox.co.uk) sell them, I ordered one last month and it works perfectly.a  4 They do custom lengths for 6.50, part number EVAAD.    h joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher) wrote in message news:<3d6c29b9.9770459@news1.uncensored-news.com>... > Hi people, > G > Is there anywhere in the UK where I can get an MMJ cable made up to aBG > required lengh. I have a 10ft cable and a very very long cable and noB< > inbetween ones which is what I need (15ft would be ideal). > C > I found a USA site and will order from there but just wondered if.# > there is anythnig nearer to home.  > 	 > Thanks,I > Joe@ >  >  > H > ______________________________________________________________________T > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comM >       <><><><><><><>   The Worlds Uncensored News Source   <><><><><><><><>e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 14:32:46 +0100 ' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>r0 Subject: Re: where to get an MMJ cable in the UK2 Message-ID: <290820021432465422%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  C In article <3d6c29b9.9770459@news1.uncensored-news.com>, Herb Asher| <joechip31@hotmail.com> wrote:   > Hi people, > G > Is there anywhere in the UK where I can get an MMJ cable made up to a G > required lengh. I have a 10ft cable and a very very long cable and noa< > inbetween ones which is what I need (15ft would be ideal). > C > I found a USA site and will order from there but just wondered ifl# > there is anythnig nearer to home.. > 	 > Thanks,r > Joe.& Good grief. What a fuss for one cable.; Mail me direct with a street address and I'll post you one.m Elliotte   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Aug 2002 07:58:45 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m- Subject: Re: Why C is better than Fortran 95? 3 Message-ID: <fJLgjPxzIv2C@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <00A13228.67BD539A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:a > P > Well, you can work a similar trick with any Fortran implementation that passesO > by reference rather than by value, which is every one I've worked with.  (Sixw/ > different vendors, I think, counting school.)e  F    Sure, just about all vendors sell "VAX-Fortran compatable" now.  So9    they all support %loc and %val which is what you need.a  H > I'm not sure if Fortran II-IV standards specify the calling mechanism.    kF    I don't think Fortran standards require specific passing mechanismsF    in the manner C does, but they do specify behaviour consistent with$    pass by address for numeric data.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.476 ************************