1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 30 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 478       Contents: Re: "inview" Article" 1 minute increment version of CRON	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm 	 Re: am/pm ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) 0 Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was0 Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was Re: banner displayed Re: banner displayed, Booting the hobbyist OpenVMS from InfoServer Cluster Upgrade and XFC  Re: File open (URGENT!) E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) $ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works. Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?" Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly( RE: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification( RE: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification( Re: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX  Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX  Re: Low-level format SCSI diskP Michigan Vax/VMS Applications Position Wanted, Contract Preferred, Referral Fee 5 netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements  Re: Old games for VAX system.  PLI compiler and PAK RE: PLI compiler and PAK% Re: PRODUCT (PCSI) and TCPIP services ! RE: Products incl in NAS package. 9 Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) 9 RE: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...) " Re: silliest thing heard this week" RE: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week" Re: silliest thing heard this week Re: Simple cluster Re: Support for MPE (OT)- Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance % Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changes % Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changes % Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changes % Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changes $ RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programs VMS performance software Re: VMS performance software W2K backup to Pathworks share # Re: Where are fonts on VMS systems?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:49:01 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: "inview" Article 0 Message-ID: <3D6F927A.DD088514@blueyonder.co.uk>   John Smith wrote:     > "For Security and Stability  > Return to the Gold Standard* >    ( Gold, why not platinum? Or is that NSK?      --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:49:14 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk+ Subject: 1 minute increment version of CRON + Message-ID: <ako7ma$q3j$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   M At the start of August Rob Young posted that he would be sending a version of H CRON which was modified to run with a 1 minute interval to Hunter to put up on his freeware site.  < I've just looked at Hunter's freeware site and can't see it.   Has it been put up anywhere ?      Thanks  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:36:40 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: am/pm; Message-ID: <01KLX10ZVZ129QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   1 > We're 'Muricans, and don't care what you think! 0 > You're *ALL* wrong and we're right! And if you1 > don't believe me, just ask our pResident! He'll  > tell you!*  & And threaten you with nukuler weapons!   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 11:13:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: am/pm3 Message-ID: <l6YiMXweqTxL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KLX10ZVZ129QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: 2 >> We're 'Muricans, and don't care what you think!1 >> You're *ALL* wrong and we're right! And if you 2 >> don't believe me, just ask our pResident! He'll
 >> tell you!*  > ( > And threaten you with nukuler weapons!  A And the problem I saw on this past Sunday's news programs is that 4 many senators also think the US has nukular weapons.  @ I think the reason Sadam Hussain offered to allow inspections by? US lawmakers is that he is confident they would be satisfied to ; have him swear on the Koran that he has no nukular weapons.   , (Please don't let her ask about the laptop.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:58:09 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: am/pm, Message-ID: <3D6FB22E.DAEE59B1@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote: 3 > > We're 'Muricans, and don't care what you think! 2 > > You're *ALL* wrong and we're right! And if you3 > > don't believe me, just ask our pResident! He'll  > > tell you!* > ( > And threaten you with nukuler weapons!  L NO! It is nukular !!!!!  (It comes from the verb "To Nuke").   Nukular bombsF tend to produce effects very similar to nuclear fission bombs, but theN americans won't reveal their secrets for the "Nukular" bombs, probably because of some copyright thing :-) :-)   J Of course, americans might save lots of money if they adopted the industryJ standard nuclear bombs instead of building their proprietary nukular bombsM that aren't very different from what many others around the world sell on the  open/black markets :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:39:29 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?). Message-ID: <3D6F83A1.CEAA5AC3@mindspring.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:    > About AM/PM... > > > Just skip am/pm all together and use 00:00:00  --  23::59.59" > as in most parts of the world...  . Didn't you read that other flame, err, posting+ going on? Something to do about guns, etc.?   / We're 'Muricans, and don't care what you think! . You're *ALL* wrong and we're right! And if you/ don't believe me, just ask our pResident! He'll 
 tell you!*   Atlant    0 * Assuming he's not on a bender or in a pretzel-   induced coma.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:11:35 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 9 Subject: Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was ; Message-ID: <01KLWRR1URA09QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > For right now, however, many companies *are* relying on blind faith that, < commericial off the shelf (COTS) software   B Pronounced the same as "kotz!", the German imperative for "vomit!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:54:35 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) 9 Subject: Re: Bad quality of OVMS software engineering was = Message-ID: <fWJb9.375364$q53.12383993@twister.austin.rr.com>   : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:L : > For right now, however, many companies *are* relying on blind faith that. : < commericial off the shelf (COTS) software  : D : Pronounced the same as "kotz!", the German imperative for "vomit!"  G Which is the reaction of most people when they learn of the U.S. Navy's   "Smart Ship" COTS program; e.g.:  E     http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/08/08/carrier.windows.idg/      CNN.com - Technology -  K     Futuristic Windows version to control aircraft carrier - August 8, 2000   D     "...The CVN-77 win is a key triumph for Microsoft in the defenseJ     industry, because it sets the stage for the company's participation inJ     the Navy's long-term, three-phase future carrier design program. "ThisF     is not just the one ship. It will decide the architectures for theH     next three ships," Roach said. Microsoft's agreement also includes aI     back-fit program for seven other carriers, bringing the total to 10."     :    "Sleep well, your nation is being guarded by Microsoft"     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:16:07 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: banner displayed ; Message-ID: <01KLWRUGZBZM9OCZIZ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   8 > Sort of reminds me of the RSTS days where to login the8 > user first needed to type in "hello", but the computer: > prompt was "Please say hello".  Saying "hello" would get6 > you nowhere as the PDP 11/70 didn't understand voice > commands.   I Reminds me of the great scene in Star Trek IV (which has many good comic  B scenes; it's the one where they return to the 20th century, Spock H estimates the year from the amount of pollution in the atmosphere, Kirk F passes him off as a former student leader "who took a little too much C LDS") where Scotty addresses a PC "Computer! Computer!".  Some guy  H points him to the mouse with a "how stupid can this guy be" look on his E face, upon which Scotty picks up the mouse, looks as cool as he can,  : holds it like a microphone and says "Computer! Computer!".   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:36:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: banner displayed , Message-ID: <3D6FAD11.427A25A2@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote: D > LDS") where Scotty addresses a PC "Computer! Computer!".  Some guyI > points him to the mouse with a "how stupid can this guy be" look on his F > face, upon which Scotty picks up the mouse, looks as cool as he can,< > holds it like a microphone and says "Computer! Computer!".  J yeah, but within seconds, he masters the keyboard "how quaint !", and withG just a slow Mac Plus, he manages to draw 3d graphics of the formula for - transparent aluminium in less than a minute.    M If you gave a windows weenie access to an old MAC Plus, do you think he could % do the same in less than 30 seconds ?    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 2002 17:04:35 GMT* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>5 Subject: Booting the hobbyist OpenVMS from InfoServer ( Message-ID: <ako8j3$4r2$0@216.39.146.95>  I I have the hobbyist CD for VAX OpenVMS, and I'm trying to install it on a I VAXstation 3100 I found on eBay that appears to have nothing (or at least I nothing useful) on its internal drive.  I'm following the instructions in J the installation guide, and get to the 'Bootfile' prompt on the 3100; thenL the machine starts to give me a RETRY error, over and over.  Using a networkJ sniffer, I can see the MOP packets going out with the proper bootfile nameJ (ISL_SVAX_073); I can also see the InfoServer (150) advertising itself viaF LAT.  The InfoServer's MOP counters show activity, including 'File notL found' errors.  However, SHOW PARTITIONS shows the [ISL_SVAX_073] partition.L Yes, server is on and MOP is enabled.  I haven't been able to figure out how0 to tell if the partition is good or bad, though.  I Does this sound familiar?  Does anyone have any suggestions as to why the D process isn't going further?  Thanks in advance for any help you can
 provide - Ian    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 06:38:40 -0700( From: rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton)  Subject: Cluster Upgrade and XFC= Message-ID: <dba64bc2.0208300538.42f1d533@posting.google.com>   D I have a seven node cluster, each node running OpenVMS/Alpha V7.3 onD its own system disk.  As per the recommendation, VCC_FLAGS have been set to 1 to disable XFC.  A I now want to start updating this cluster to V7.3-1.  The Release B Notes (Section 4.22.8) indicate that all V7.3 nodes in the clusterC should have the XFC V2.00 Remedial Kit installed before introducing D the V7.3-1 systems.  Furthermore, in Section 4.1, it states that theC remedial kit corrects errors in the cache locking protocol of VIOC, D and allows older version of the cache to operate safely with the new XFC.  C I am not to thrilled about having to update all six nodes with this C remedial kit just to turn around and update the nodes again.  So my E question is this:  If I introduce the V7.3-1 systems into the cluster D with XFC disabled, can I get by without applying the remedial kit toE the V7.3 systems?  Then when all are at V7.3-1, I will reboot each as ) time and workload permits, turing on XFC.    Robbie   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 07:17:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: File open (URGENT!)3 Message-ID: <cZf0IrlMPOtr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <3D6E96DE.EE0DB55E@lmco.nospam.com>, JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.nospam.com> writes:F > Be aware that in VMS, there is a Fortran carriage control format forG > file output that is different from other file formats.  It places '0' B > and '1' for line and page feeds respectively.  Depending on whatI > programs you have written, this could cause trouble in reading what you  > believe to be ASCII data.  >   @    This is not peculiar to VMS, it's standard Fortran.  Each OS,D    however, has it's own way of tracking or failing to track what to$    do with Fortran carriage control.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 2002 12:02:11 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)- Message-ID: <aknms3$ple@web.eng.baileynm.com>   . In article <2Tvb9.225169$me6.30213@sccrnsc01>,0 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:M > You will be pleased to note that Mister Magee did in fact publish this well L > thought out and articulate rebuttal to the ravings of a patriotic AmericanN > who has served his country, fought in a war, is an NRA life member, and will5 > long remember September 11. And Veteran's Day, too.   I While this kind of innuendo works well on TV, it's singularly ineffective K in print. Possibly people who still know how to read have an attention span K longer than a commercial break and are aware when a response like this is a  complete non-sequiter.  - And then you follow it up with legal threats.   + McCarthy would have been proud of you, son.    --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 08:00:34 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)- Message-ID: <OkQ+oQts4jxc@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   - In article <3D6EEF1D.4020209@tsoft-inc.com>,  -    David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > K > Things are going downhill rapidly.  Now we have an NRA argument in c.o.v.  > Q > I do have to ask this question of those that think it's guns that kill and not  M > people.  When a drunk driver kills someone, do we blame the driver, or ban   > automobiles? > ?     Neither, we blame the person that served him the drinks :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:05:03 GMT ' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> - Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works 0 Message-ID: <hhrmka.jeg.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   Bill Todd wrote:   > 4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com... >>, >>  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161 >># >> HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workse > = > For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctioned L > Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacleC > to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this is J > significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offK > even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actuallyo@ > go somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that aL > generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have	 > needed.  >  > Or not.  But one can hope. >  > - bill  I Or, maybe it's just a Microsoft ploy in cahoots with HP and Dell to show D2 the DOJ that MS isn't really a monopoly after all?           Stu    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:18:46 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workss+ Message-ID: <3D6F1C56.5000507@mail.tele.dk>    Bill Todd wrote:  I >                   If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offsN > even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actually go= > somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that aoL > generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have	 > needed.m    9 As I understand it, then Corel made HP a offer they couldq9 not refuse. They simply set their price significant belowd8 Microsoft and due to the fierce competion in the low end$ PC market, then HP could not say no.   But still good news !w   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:22:45 +0200H@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksh+ Message-ID: <3D6F1D45.7020809@mail.tele.dk>   1 > By Egan Orion: Wednesday 28 August 2002, 10:21 t    E > WordPerfect was once arguably the best professional word processinghF > application for the PC in the mid-80's and even later, but they fellE > behind in the face of Microsoft's hyper-competitive tactics in mosth > business markets --s    ; WP 5.1 for DOS (and VMS !!!!) was a great product. Fast and ; powerfull. And all support people loved the "display codes"": functionality - no matter how bad the writer fucked up the, document, then you could always clean it up.  ; But WP was not destroyed by Microsoft marketing and suspecte# business practices. That is a myth.s  " WP was destroyed by the fact that:    - Windows became a success <    - all the first versions of WP on Windows sucked (5.2 was#      horrible and 6.0 was also bad)n   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:56:36 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works 8 Message-ID: <00A13359.517387B2@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  n In article <3D6F1D45.7020809@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes:2 >> By Egan Orion: Wednesday 28 August 2002, 10:21  >w >yF >> WordPerfect was once arguably the best professional word processingG >> application for the PC in the mid-80's and even later, but they fell F >> behind in the face of Microsoft's hyper-competitive tactics in most >> business markets -- >  >t< >WP 5.1 for DOS (and VMS !!!!) was a great product. Fast and< >powerfull. And all support people loved the "display codes"; >functionality - no matter how bad the writer fucked up the2- >document, then you could always clean it up.x >.< >But WP was not destroyed by Microsoft marketing and suspect$ >business practices. That is a myth. >e# >WP was destroyed by the fact that:t >   - Windows became a success= >   - all the first versions of WP on Windows sucked (5.2 wasH$ >     horrible and 6.0 was also bad)  M And in addition: Novell bought it, during the period when they were trying touM combat Microsoft by buying competitive products (like DR-DOS), alienating thedM developers, letting the products languish for years without new releases, and:M then selling them cheap to other companies.  (Observe that they even did this N to  Unix (tm), buying Unix System Labs and eventually disposing of the carcassD to, if memory serves, SCO, who eventually made a deal with ex-Novell people at Caldera.)    -- Alanu   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 02 12:52:45 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) - Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works2) Message-ID: <C6tpPO2dsitt@elias.decus.ch>.  p In article <zXmb9.287637$2p2.11549128@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > 4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com... >>, >>  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161 >># >> HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works  > = > For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctionedoL > Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacleC > to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this istJ > significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offN > even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actually go= > somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that asL > generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have	 > needed.a >  > Or not.  But one can hope. >   @ I have a copy of Wordperfect Office which came bundled with a PC; a couple of years ago. Without getting into specifics, bothg= Wordperfect and Quattro Pro feel more solid and easier to use  than their Office equivalents.  > I was therefore disappointed (approx 2 years ago) to find that. Corel had withdrawn their Linux version of it.  = Maybe shifting the Windows version in the volumes that HP andh; Dell can provide might persuade them to resurrect the Linuxe< version. That could provide a powerful combination for those- wishing to escape the new MS licensing model.r   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:46:15 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)d- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksh< Message-ID: <rOJb9.140950$eK6.4229565@twister.austin.rr.com>  A Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= (arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk) wrote:-3 : > By Egan Orion: Wednesday 28 August 2002, 10:21 t :  : G : > WordPerfect was once arguably the best professional word processingPH : > application for the PC in the mid-80's and even later, but they fellG : > behind in the face of Microsoft's hyper-competitive tactics in mosti : > business markets --u : = : WP 5.1 for DOS (and VMS !!!!) was a great product. Fast andi= : powerfull. And all support people loved the "display codes"n< : functionality - no matter how bad the writer fucked up the. : document, then you could always clean it up. : = : But WP was not destroyed by Microsoft marketing and suspect % : business practices. That is a myth.' : $ : WP was destroyed by the fact that: :    - Windows became a success-> :    - all the first versions of WP on Windows sucked (5.2 was% :      horrible and 6.0 was also bad)h : E WP 5.1 for DOS is still being used by many medical transcriptionists. @ Just lurk in the sci.med.transcription newsgroup, or look at its+ archived posts at http://groups.google.com/r  @ The MTs using WP 5.1 report problems trying to run WP 5.1 under  Windows NT/2K/XP.t  F One of the MTs posted a link to a Word add-on that offers WP's reveal  codes functionality:  5    http://www.levitjames.com/crosseyes/crosseyes3.htmS    CrossEyes    <    http://www.levitjames.com/crosseyes/what_is_crosseyes.htm    What is CrossEyes?J  C   "CrossEyes is a general purpose add-in for all recent versions ofHF    Microsoft Word, (97, 2000 and XP), that helps a typist of any skillD    level understand and use Word more efficiently.  CrossEyes is theH    first, and only, product that lets a typist see a complete visual mapE    of everything in a Word document.  CrossEyes will save the averagelI    typist a great deal of time every day, reduce calls to your help desk,w,    and teach a typist how Word really works.  	    [snip]   /    Is CrossEyes like a "Reveal Codes" for Word?v  I    WordPerfect's "reveal codes" feature shows everything in a WordPerfectnC    document, in-line with the text.  When typists transitioned from C    WordPerfect to Word, the most common complaint was the lack of alA    similar feature in Word.  As every trainer knows, no amount ofn@    training can adequately compensate for the lack of a feature.  H    Typists who request a feature similar to "reveal codes" for Word, areI    not suffering from a severe case of nostalgia.  They are reflecting on F    the recurring problems they have with understanding and using Word,?    and what they know from experience to be a good solution..."a      2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailT   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:49:10 -0400:( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workst* Message-ID: <3D6F77D6.50407@tsoft-inc.com>   Stuart Fuller wrote:   > Bill Todd wrote: >  > 4 >>"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 >>news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com... >>, >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161 >>>r# >>>HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksm >>>o= >>For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctionedcL >>Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacleC >>to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this istJ >>significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offK >>even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actuallyi@ >>go somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that aL >>generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have	 >>needed.- >> >>Or not.  But one can hope. >> >>- bill >> > K > Or, maybe it's just a Microsoft ploy in cahoots with HP and Dell to show  4 > the DOJ that MS isn't really a monopoly after all? > 
 >         Stu  >     Q I'm skeptical.  While windoz gives them the monopoly, it's rather likely that MS o0 office is where they capitolize on the monopoly.  Q Actually, thinking on it further, I'm not sure that windoz is even the monopoly. tQ   From where I see things, it's more likely that it's MS office that is the real mR monopoly.  And revenue producer.  Any cracks there, and MS should be rather upset.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:40:27 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workse8 Message-ID: <pn0vmu4r27o1i372j5adq65vaek5at4iv3@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:46:15 GMT, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerryh Leslie) wrote:     >BA >The MTs using WP 5.1 report problems trying to run WP 5.1 under r >Windows NT/2K/XP.  B It may be worth noting here that XP has an additional "properties"A compatibility check box. You can mark an executable as "run as ifgE Windows 95" or various other options. I have use this to successfullyh= run at least one app under XP which otherwise wouldn't start.t  @ This may have been the first thing they tried of course but I'll mention it here anyway.U   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:32:34 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workse+ Message-ID: <3D6FAC31.9709F45@videotron.ca>'   Paul Sture wrote:r@ > I was therefore disappointed (approx 2 years ago) to find that0 > Corel had withdrawn their Linux version of it.  G Corel, the littel company that started by offering a drawing package on.N Windows because at that time, all the serious stuff was still on MAC only grew a lot by buying Wordperfect.  M It also saw an opportunity with the .COM and managed to raise its share price-M by simply announcing support for Java and LINUX. That gave instant orgasms tonK the wall street casino analysts. But when that went away and folks realiseddK there was little revenue, it went down big time with rumours of Corel goingeP bankrupt. That is probably when lots of non-revenus producing stuff was dropped.  > So it is refreshing to see that Corel would again be going up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:40:15 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>F- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksn, Message-ID: <3D6FADFD.C7CD27A9@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote:tE >    document, in-line with the text.  When typists transitioned from E >    WordPerfect to Word, the most common complaint was the lack of a  >    similar feature in Word.   N I have known secretaries who went from Micom (reveal codes was available) to aM Sony (no reveal code) to WPLSPLUS (reveal code) to Wordperfect/Windows and tos Word. (no reveal code).   L The lack of "reveal codes" was the biggest complaint in both occasions whereM they lost the ability. And after the Sony, when they regained it with WPSPLUS % (gold V), they really appreciated it.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:45:19 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>R- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Workst, Message-ID: <3D6FAF2C.B5AB1F4E@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote:sR > Actually, thinking on it further, I'm not sure that windoz is even the monopoly.R >   From where I see things, it's more likely that it's MS office that is the realT > monopoly.  And revenue producer.  Any cracks there, and MS should be rather upset.  H Consider that every PC sold comes with a copy of Windows which generatesK revenu to Microsoft, even of the buyer of the PC alreayd had Windows on hisa previous slower PC.r  N Consider that MS Office is not bundled into many PC packages (MS Works is moreL commonly bundled). So if someone splurged and bought MS Office, he is likely? to "transfer" it to his new PC instead of buying a new version.r  N I think that this is the whole point of Microsoft's new licencing strategy. ItH realised that as soon as people stop upgrading, Microsoft will be out of business for applications.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:13:43 +0200e@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>7 Subject: Re: HP earnings - how did the VMS business do?o+ Message-ID: <3D6F1B27.8000801@mail.tele.dk>o   John Nebel wrote:N  I > Does anyone know how the VMS part of HPs business is doing financially?o  ' They never publicise VMS specific info.l  # I think a good guess would be that:n6    - both VMS and Tru64 sales dropped after the merger(      announcement due to the uncertainty/    - VMS sales raised back to the "usual" leveli.      (which is still too low !) when it become"      clear that VMS would continue2    - Tru64 sales are still down, because customers3      are already now considering migrating to HP-UXe      or an alternative   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:53:21 -0500 , From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>+ Subject: Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothlyu+ Message-ID: <ako4dm$8q5$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>v  F Steve McGowan, Sun's chief financial officer said during a mid-quarterJ conference call with analysts Thursday, "We've not seen any improvement inE the current IT spending environment. In fact, some would say it might ; actually be worsening."  See Dark Clouds Gather Over Sun at<3 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,494864,00.asp.d  J Despite what some Sun cheerleaders might be saying or typing, or what thisK quarter's earnings or this week's stock price are, the company is dependentsG on IT spending, which is no longer in drunken sailor mode, and Linux isrI changing the rules of the game.  What we'll see in a few years depends oneJ business, marketing, and engineering plans in the current environment, andJ how well they are executed, not what Sun was in the dot com lunacy or whatE the former HP and acquisitions were or should have been.  This thread F examining current and last year's numbers makes about as much sense asJ examining at the last few weeks of American football scores for Super Bowl bets.r  I More appropriate discussion would be how to maintain SPARC's and Solaris' A technical and marketshare advantages in the face of the strongestcL competition they have ever known, and how HP can take best advantange of theK strengths of its various divisions and acquisitions.  Even more appropriateeB for this newsgroup would be how to position VMS where reliability,F stability, and security needs can create niche markets in an otherwise Windows and UNIX world.c  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"r> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:ajvo8h$mc4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >l: > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... > >e > >> > >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >> > >>; > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ...8 > >>>0 > >>>mA > >>>>I am not a stock analyst but given the fundamentals of bothc< > >>>>busineses I know which one I would bet on for the next > >>>>6-12 months. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>K > >>>Your confusing fundamentals with your personal opinion of the company,s > >>>n > > it's > > K > >>>products, and it's direction.  From a pure stock play perspective, Suni > >>>e > > hast > >nJ > >>>shown little evidence that it will make it's slight profit prediction for G > >>>the fiscal year ending in 2003.  Nor has the tech market shown anyo > >>>e > > evidence > >eE > >>>of a turn around in general.  I would expect most tech stocks tot flounder@ > >>>until something starts driving a new growth spurt in sales. > >>>l > >>>n > >>D > >>Fundamentals are revenue growth and market share growth. We haveD > >>them you don't. Not cutting R&D and other longer term investmentA > >>does have a short term impact but most experts agree that the-B > >>companies that can do this and grow revenue and share during a? > >>downturn are the ones that come out of it in the best shapee > >>when the recovery starts.h > >> > >> > >oB > > I'll help you out.  Try quicken.com, plug in SUNW and click on
 Fundamentals.r > >'L > > Reading your SEC filings, it also appears that while wanting to hold R&D atI > > 10% of net revenue, you also plan on reducing your headcount 9%.  Noto good.eH > > Are you too fat in management?  Too many salesmen?  Too many support staff?L > > Too many engineers?  Where is the 9% comming from?  You are also closing > > facilities.n > > J > > You show zero proof that there is any revenue growth going on at Sun -L > > again, click on fundamentals in quicken.com and look at "Growth Trends". InL > > guess "hoping" to not lose money in a quarter versus losing money is theL > > right direction though - but I don't think you can project a trend based on > > wishing. > >  >j >:B > Well apart from our CY2002/Q1 and Q2 numbers no we show no signs > of revenue growth. >D? > Remind me how long has the joint Compaq and HP entity been in-; > existantance. Come on Freddy boy havn't you FUDDED enoughn >i > > > > Some selected quotes from your own SEC quarterly report... > >uL > > "Over 90% of our products net revenue in the third quarter as well as in the'L > > first nine months of both fiscal 2002 and 2001 was generated by ComputerE > > Systems and Network Storage. Computer Systems and Network Storage  consistsJ > > primarily of servers, storage and desktop computers. Substantially all of > > thepK > > decrease in products net revenue during the third quarter and the firstc nineJ > > months of fiscal 2002, when compared with the corresponding periods of > > fiscal 2001d >s >tE > Freddy you have a terrible terrible comprehension problem. Sun's iscD > acheiving quarter on quarter revenue growth. We had however a veryF > steep decline and we have not yet got to a point where revenues have  > recovered to pre crash levels. >,F > How difficult is this for you to understand ?? Crash, big fall, slow > recovery get it ?? >kI > In the discussions we have had, you have lurched from benchmarks to CPUeD > performance to systems architecture without betraying any apparent> > understanding of the subjects you post on now you have addedC > financial analysis to the list of things that you apparently knowrE > nothing about as well, is this a clever front or has some maliciousd! > co-worker stolen your account ?- >- >- >- > > H > >>>The longer the industry slump continues, the higher the probability thatH > >>>only the strong (balance sheets) will survive.  Sun's current stock priceuH > >>>and market capitalization may make it a target for a takeover - who > >>>l > > knows -t > >eG > >>>maybe Fujitsu will buy you - or some enterprising Defense industrys > >>>  > > companyb > >6 > >>>might :-) > >>>. > >>> C > >>I doub't it Sun's stock is low because of the economic downturnd@ > >>very few companies have either the cash or the guts during a@ > >>downturn to stump up the kind of money needed for a purchase< > >>of this type in these market conditions. Nice FUDDY spin > >>though.t > >> > >> > >mI > > *I'm* not the first - or the last - that has suggested that this is a J > > possibility.  In fact you are wrong about it not being a good time forI > > aquisitions.  This is exactly the time where these things can happen.  > >  > >a; > >>As an alternative how about spinning out the profitablec6 > >>printing business in HP and ditching the rest in a; > >>garage sale now that just might give your stock holderst > >>a nice return. > >> > >> > >t > > Nice try at FUD yourself.  > >e= > > From your SEC filings - your employer takes us seriously:t > >O >c >q4 > Well of course we do you are in our markets. Sadly6 > the whole tone of your arguments now and in the past1 > suggests that you don't take Sun seriously. Sadn5 > for you not for us. You have worked for 2 companiesr6 > Digital and Compaq both of who suffered at the hands9 > of their competitors Sun and IBM as HP is now suffering # > at the hands of Sun IBM and Dell.a >S6 > If your comments reflect the culture of both defunct7 > companies then it goes a long way to explain why they.7 > are defunct, lets hope for HP's sake that this aspectd9 > of the Digital/Compaq way does not become the prevelant@
 > HP culture.r >o > 	 > RegardsO >5 > Andrew Harrisonr >v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:47:47 -04001' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>a1 Subject: RE: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D954A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Jerry,  ( >>> Note: that link gets a 404 error.<<<   Try:, http://diicoe.disa.mil/coe/kpc/KPCP_VPL.html   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----; From: Jerry Leslie [mailto:LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM]=20n Sent: August 30, 2002 12:38 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 Subject: FYI: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification    9    http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/19710-1.htmlo'    IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification.  H   "IBM Corp.'s current proprietary version of the Unix operating system,A    AIX 5L, has received certification for the Defense Information 1    Infrastructure's Common Operating Environment.g  F    AIX 5L is the first platform to be certified under Version 4 of DIID    COE's Kernel Platform Compliance Program, said Greg Lefelar, Unix2    server sales manager for the IBM federal group.  	    [snip].  D    To get the certification, AIX 5L Version 5.1 was tested on an IBMG    7044-170 workstation, which Lefelar said is part of the same product C    family as the p690. A list of validated platforms in the DII COEH2    Kernel Platform Compliance Program is online at)    diicoe.disa.mil/coe/kpc/KPCP_VPL.htm."n  ! Note: that link gets a 404 error.e  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:58:48 -0400e; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>s1 Subject: RE: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certificationsK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEA5A@rlghncst964.usps.gov>t  7 I once heard someone describe his experiences with the e# administration of an AIX system as i  , "belonging to the 'patch of the week' club."   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----. From: "Main; Kerry" [mailto:Kerry.Main@hp.com]% Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:47 AMy To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" 1 Subject: RE: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certificationr     Jerry,  ( >>> Note: that link gets a 404 error.<<<   Try:, http://diicoe.disa.mil/coe/kpc/KPCP_VPL.html   Regardsr  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: Jerry Leslie [mailto:LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM] Sent: August 30, 2002 12:38 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com02 Subject: FYI: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certification    9    http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/19710-1.htmlD'    IBM's AIX wins DII COE certificationr  H   "IBM Corp.'s current proprietary version of the Unix operating system,A    AIX 5L, has received certification for the Defense Information 1    Infrastructure's Common Operating Environment.>  F    AIX 5L is the first platform to be certified under Version 4 of DIID    COE's Kernel Platform Compliance Program, said Greg Lefelar, Unix2    server sales manager for the IBM federal group.  	    [snip]   D    To get the certification, AIX 5L Version 5.1 was tested on an IBMG    7044-170 workstation, which Lefelar said is part of the same producttC    family as the p690. A list of validated platforms in the DII COEe2    Kernel Platform Compliance Program is online at)    diicoe.disa.mil/coe/kpc/KPCP_VPL.htm."   ! Note: that link gets a 404 error.>  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:09:30 +0200e@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>1 Subject: Re: IBM's AIX wins DII COE certificationo) Message-ID: <3D6F6E8A.10601@mail.tele.dk>n  " Webb, William W Raleigh, NC wrote:  9 > I once heard someone describe his experiences with the m% > administration of an AIX system as h > . > "belonging to the 'patch of the week' club."  " That is a general Unix phenonomen.  , Most people I know prefer AIX over Solaris !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:37:20 +0200g% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> " Subject: Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX. Message-ID: <akn7bh$hq1$1@info.service.rug.nl>  = "JMK" <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.nospam.com> wrote in message =R) news:3D6E6B7E.5803413F@lmco.nospam.com...MF > I'm tasked with porting a successful GCC program to DEC VMS CXX.  OnI > CXX, it compiles and runs with no warnings or errors, although output =e is > not as expected. >=20F > Forensic analysis of the output indicates failure to convert stringsC > into file names and other data identifiers necessary for internalX > workings of the program. =20 >=20G > Are there any tools which I could pass the source through which could E > indicate possible problems?  As before, this passes compilation and % > linking with no warnings or errors.   + We use FlexeLint from Gimpel www.gimpel.comcC It runs on any platform as long as there is a C compiler available.4= It has uncovered and prevented a lot of bugs in our software.p               F.Z.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 07:39:11 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)f" Subject: Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0208300639.45ca5cea@posting.google.com>o  e JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3D6E8867.36772949@lmco.nospam.com>...t > Larry, > Thanks for the response. > J > I'll check with warnings that may have been disabled by others elsewhere7 > (we are a larger organization) -- thanks for the tip.h > C > I'm using the debugger and finding that strtok has some differente3 > responses cxx vs gnu, and they are less friendly.  > 6 > But aren't there any format/syntax checkers for CXX? >  > Jeff  > I would recommend reading the help utility about the available? compilation flags.  You might find something you like.  OpenVMS@  compilers are very configurable.  @ It sounds like you might not be overly fluent with VMS.  I wouldC recommend reviewing some of the C, C++, and programming guides that ( are available on www.openvms.compaq.com.  D Sometimes a straight port is not always the best idea.  For example,D some UNIX programs create, delete, and recreate processes to performD tasks.  The overhead for this on UNIX platforms is low.  On OpenVMS,F you see serious performance issues if the program does this with heavy load.a  B Also, there are a lot of nice OpenVMS system services that you can6 leverage to make your application quicker and dynamic.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 02:54:00 -0700! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro)e' Subject: Re: Low-level format SCSI disk = Message-ID: <d5440555.0208300154.67f66e07@posting.google.com>e  " soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) wrote:A > the sake of curiosity. It runs since this morning, like 5 hoursyF > already, I will let it for another while to see what happens. Do youB > think dd will notice when the disk is over? I certainly hope so,G > otherwise I will stop it anyway tomorrow. Comparison: Adaptec utilitynH > took about 30 minutes to format it on a slower PC. It could be that ddH > now converts all he reads from /dev/null (no idea what size has a nullF > record :) ) in memory to 520, then back to 512 for writing it to the0 > device. That would explain the sluggishness...  E OK, it finished over night, no errors, it reported the last entry not > completed, so there was no big surprise when I tested the unit@ afterwards and noticed the block size _still_ 512. So dd did not actually format the drive.   Sorint   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 08:10:20 -0700+ From: wendzinski@yahoo.com (tom wendzinski)-Y Subject: Michigan Vax/VMS Applications Position Wanted, Contract Preferred, Referral Fee a< Message-ID: <6360c2a9.0208300710.ed210ee@posting.google.com>  D I'm looking for a new contract in Southeastern Michigan.  I can workB on site or remotely.  Eighteen years experience, incorporated, canA work with any of the traditional languages and database systems. s> Referral fee offered, e-mail for details, wendzinski@yahoo.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:57:01 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> > Subject: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements; Message-ID: <01KLWZJ4X4K49QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  D I'm thinking of finally jumping from Netscape 3.03 Gold to the most D modern version of a graphical web browser for VMS which is, however,* also more or less usable/stable/practical.  ? What do folks recommend?  The latest official HP product, some o> open-source mozilla thingy, or what?  What are MINIMUM system G requirements (CPU speed, memory---I'm sure I have enough disk space)?  e  Will any old graphic card be OK?  F I normally use LYNX and need a graphical browser for those rare cases > where a site is worth viewing which doesn't work well in LYNX.  A What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?6   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:51:21 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements+ Message-ID: <3D6FB099.2070303@mail.tele.dk>r   Phillip Helbig wrote:e  F > I'm thinking of finally jumping from Netscape 3.03 Gold to the most F > modern version of a graphical web browser for VMS which is, however,, > also more or less usable/stable/practical. > A > What do folks recommend?  The latest official HP product, some m& > open-source mozilla thingy, or what?    $ CSWB is Mozilla with a Compaq badge.   (will next version be HSWB ??)  7 CSWB is behind Mozilla version-wise for obvious reasonsu# (Compaq needs to test things etc.).s  6 I have not used them enough to really say whether CSWB7 is actually that much more robust, but someone else mayn be able to compare that aspect.a  7 Note that the two can easily coexist on the same systemi5 and since they do not take that much disk-space, thenb# why not download and install both ?t  H >                                               What are MINIMUM system I > requirements (CPU speed, memory---I'm sure I have enough disk space)?  4" > Will any old graphic card be OK?    ; If the graphics card support Motif, then you should be able@ to run CSWB/Mozilla.  G There are likely CPU and memory requirements at www.openvms.compaq.com, E but as a guess I would say 300 MHz Alpha and 128 MB RAM (with not too E many server apps running) as a minimum. And that will *not* be fast !n    KC > What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?s  < It will work (or it will not work - if it is MSIE specific).   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:40:25 GMT>0 From: Paul Winalski <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com>& Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system.8 Message-ID: <f21vmugefr0pkl75usgsl6um14kp7fe559@4ax.com>  ? On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 03:49:46 -0000, sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:   E >On OpenVMS v7.2, I successfully unpacked and compiled Adventure game F >by using DEC FORTRAN compiler.  That was just warning about variablesI >not used, etc.  I was able run Adventure (551-point system) without any u
 >problems. >t. >Do you remember that old games in 1980s, etc?  D Remember it??  I ported Adventure (original point system) to VAX/VMSD back in 1978, while working at one of the 11-780 hardware field test sites.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:05:42 +0200-" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: PLI compiler and PAKa6 Message-ID: <ako8lf$1kgh1s$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  I A couple of weeks ago a URL was posted for a free PLI compiler. I did notoI find time to install the product until today and found that it requires a  license key (a PAK).  F Is the PAK available or is KITINSTAL.COM in need of a little tweaking?  
 Hans Vlems   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:58:41 -0700n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: RE: PLI compiler and PAKe9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEPFKAA.tom@kednos.com>i  I It is only free if you have a hobbyist license.  Otherwise, you will need = to get a license from us, in which case send me private mail.u   Tomo   >-----Original Message----- ( >From: Hans Vlems [mailto:hvlems@iae.nl]' >Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:06 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: PLI compiler and PAK >t >dJ >A couple of weeks ago a URL was posted for a free PLI compiler. I did notJ >find time to install the product until today and found that it requires a >license key (a PAK).  > G >Is the PAK available or is KITINSTAL.COM in need of a little tweaking?e >g >Hans Vlems  >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).t@ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >i ---2& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:19:08 GMTt- From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr>c. Subject: Re: PRODUCT (PCSI) and TCPIP services/ Message-ID: <M%Eb9.3$IZ.92251@news.cpqcorp.net>0  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D6EE5A4.859BCF0B@videotron.ca...A > Ok, trying to install the latest patches for TCPIP services....  >  > PRODUCT SHOW  reveals I have:e >r0 > DEC VAXVMS TCPIP V5.0-9   (Full LP, Installed) > # > But when I try to PRODUCT INSTALLr5 > DEC VAXVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113  I get the following:k > L > %PCSI-E-APPLYTOERR, product DEC VAXVMS TCPIP, to which maintenance product DECa3 > VAXVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.0-111 applies, was not found.a >t  >E > The horrible HTML  README does mention that it expects TCPIP V5.0A.a
 However, IK > find no way to patch from 5.0-9 to 5.0A from the ftp.service.digital.com.h Is > such an upgrade possible ? >  ftp site.I To go from Tcpip 5.0 to Tcpip 5.0A (and then put Eco3), you need on Alphay the CD labelled ALPHA7218 it has a directory tcpip_alpha050A, and in <.kit> a file  dec-axpvms-tcpip-v0500-10-1.pcsiK As you have a Vax and not an Alpha, I guess there must be something similare on the Vax 7.2 CD.   Regardst   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:50:49 +0100>- From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk> * Subject: RE: Products incl in NAS package.A Message-ID: <C3521D5A224C344284C3666E831BF6801D9DFD@london_exch2>r  F I think you are wrong about VMScluster being in NAS-200.  NAS has beenL through various versions & some products have been added in and taken out asE versions change.  But I don't think NAS-200 ever included VMScluster.e NAS-300 DOES include it though.h  7 According to the latest SPD I have, NAS-200 contains...n  $ DECwindows[TM] Motif[R] for OpenVMS  DECprint[TM] Supervisor (DCPS)( PrintServer[TM] Software for OpenVMS    % DECnet[TM] for OpenVMS End System    g& DECnet-Plus[TM] for OpenVMS End System# DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS # DIGITAL PATHWORKS[TM] for OpenVMS  i  5 (This is the Alpha list but I think VAX is the same).   + (And, DCPS, from v2.0 is included with VMS)r   -----Original Message-----/ From: Alan Frisbie [mailto:Abuse@NelsonUSA.com]o Sent: 23 August 2002 18:26 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml* Subject: Re: Products incl in NAS package.     "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:n  : >     Look at SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL_LMFGROUPS.COM (at least< > on an Alpha).  This is essentially a "table" that, for any@ > given "group" license, like your NAS200, which covers a number< > of products, gives the "equivalent" list of single-product > license names.  : Thanks for pointing out this file.   I never realized that: VMSCLUSTER was a component of NAS200, so I never tried it. Time to go RTF(cluster)M.l   Alan  A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be OF legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. ? All electronic communications with the Company may be monitoredBA in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act,e, Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000. = If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contact l the sender of the e-mail. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this C email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact MC Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMTo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:46:46 -0500o$ From: "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com>B Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)7 Message-ID: <004f01c25044$d43a1650$342810ac@petris.com>e   Hey, Terry:   5 You forgot to provide a link to the new VAX products:e  / http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/navigation/flash.htmo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:48:21 -0700n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>fB Subject: RE: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEEOFKAA.tom@kednos.com>e  D I think HP should get an injunction, this could cause some confusion in the marketplace.s   >-----Original Message----- * >From: Art Beane [mailto:beane@petris.com]& >Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:47 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC >Subject: Re: Secret New Products (was: Is the HP/Compaq merger...)s >l >  >Hey, Terry: >a6 >You forgot to provide a link to the new VAX products: >e0 >http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/navigation/flash.htm >m >w >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).,@ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >e ---m& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002o   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 07:18:13 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this week-3 Message-ID: <4wHkrA8fZPV9@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  n In article <b096a4ee.0208291728.663c5f8e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > G > If your management doesn't see much of a future for your VMS systems,i= > then that's why they don't want to spend any money on them.e  ;    And "if you don't have it, then that's why you need it".i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:50:28 -0400@5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>l+ Subject: RE: silliest thing heard this weektO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B843@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>i   -----Original Message-----7 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] D Sent: August 29, 2002 11:39 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeka     Carl Perkins wrote:h > > > In article <3D6D7691.168EB72C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" ; > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... }Carl Perkins wrote: }>r: > }> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... > }> }John Lewocz wrote: > }> }> [snip]K > }> }> Oh, and speaking of "college days", I swear DCL was written by some[	 undergrad K > }> }> on spring break  -- in the 1940's.   Why is there no builtin way to7 distinguish,I > }> }> between an empty directory and one that doesn't exist?   Oh sure,l
 I've seen thedK > }> }> postings that say "if you want to check if [bozo.the.clown] exists,t do aL > }> }> f$search([bozo.the]clown.dir).   But what if you don't know the path ahead of
 > }> }> time?i > }> }A > }> }$ PATH = F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DEVICE", "SYNTAX_ONLY" ) + - 7 > }> }F$PARSE( filespec,,, "DIRECTORY", "SYNTAX_ONLY" ),* > }> }$ IF F$PARSE( PATH ) .EQS. "" THEN -9 > }> }$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "% Path does not exist - ", PATH: > }> }David J. DachteraO > }>G > }> This is good in theory, but it misses one case. If there is a file H > }> called FOO.DIR that is not a directory file, the F$PARSE testing asF > }> above will fail by indicating that there is a [.FOO] subdirectory9 > }> even though there isn't (at least up to VMS V7.2-1).o > } F > }One could argue that the example you cite constitutes a file systemG > }corruption, and that the lexicals and the underlying system servicesw1 > }were not intended to diagnose the file system.r > }C > }--s > }David J. Dachtera > $ > One could, but one would be wrong.   Not really.s  # > It is just a file called FOO.DIR.60 > There isn't actually anything wrong with this.  L Well, yes there is. To borrow from your technique, here's another example or two:  
 Example 1:  I It's well known that executable images in Stream_LF format are valid. So,y let's try something:  ( DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ copy nla0: mytest.exe@ %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DKA0:[DDACHTERA]MYTEST.EXE;1 (0 records)J DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ set file/attr=(rfm=stmlf) mytest.exe DJAS01::DDACHTERA$( append sys$input mytest.exe David  Exit ! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ run mytest.exepH %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image MYTEST.EXE -CLI-E-IMGNAME, imageF file DKA0:[DDACHTERA]MYTEST.EXE;1 -IMGACT-F-NOTNATIVE, image is not an OpenVMS Alpha imagee  C Hhmmm... Guess that extension doesn't mean what its says, does it?  6 ------------------------------------------------------  E that's right - it doesnt.  Assuming file type based on extension is alI windows "thing" that is not a good idea.  VMS has a CONVENTION as to whatcH extensions should map to what file types, but it's just a CONVENTION forH convenience - some programs will assume if you let them, and some thingsH like the directory lookup aspects of the command interpreter want to seeG dir;1, but the actual file type is stored in metadata where it belongs.f  I If I rename a .psd on my peecee to .txt , it doesnt convert the file, nowi does it :-)e    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andrJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theH original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acceptK orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not beoL responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrainL from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed thatH we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that toJ satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail: correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:04:23 GMTt& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekl& Message-ID: <3D6F6BAE.40D10D13@hp.com>   John Lewocz wrote: > G > this is where I saw posts saying "find out if [foo.bar.baz] exists bytG > doing a f$search([foo.bar]baz.dir)".   Yeah, that's quick and eleganto > and general.  F I'm not sure where your "15-year VMS veteran" learned DCL, but again: : the correct syntax to check whether a directory exists is 0   dir_exists = f$parse("[foo.bar.baz]") .nes. ""  L This syntax has already been posted a couple of times in this thread. It is A quick, elegant, and general. You've either missed or ignored it. e  F > Why can't DEC(or COMPAQ, or HP) add a lexical like f$dir_exists() toC > the language? ... And it's not blasphemy to suggest improvements.r  G Because it doesn't need one. See above. We've added improvements to DCL:K in recent years such as case preservation, pipes, and (coming soon) longer /F command lines. We're always looking for ways to improve the operating F system. (When we run out of ideas for new features, many of us here in. VMS Engineering are going to be out of a job!)  K > The original unix shell, the Bourne shell, really sucked for interactive  J > work. Since then we have the Korn shell, and Bourne Again shells, which 3 > are both pretty spiffy once you learn the ropes. m  A I use bash on VMS on a regular basis simply for the command-line  E completion feature. Others have posted that they use perl, or python, F or sed on VMS when they're the appropriate tools for the job. At leastG in this forum, I don't see the close-minded attitude that you're trying / to argue exists among OpenVMS users in general.s   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 08:49:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeka3 Message-ID: <eoFjGcizNiFl@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  [ In article <3D6EF070.77BDC52D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:p  % > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir [.mytest]*.*?G > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA0:[DDACHTERA.MYTEST]*.*;* as input 1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedw2 > -SYSTEM-W-BADIRECTORY, bad directory file format > J > Note, however, that the facility reporting the error at the intermediate5 > level is RMS, not ODS as I personally would expect.a  F Even Oracle DBMS (and Rdb), which do not use RMS to access their data,E rely on RMS for directory operations.  Direct QIO access to directory.D information is possible, but it is a lot of work to keep up with theB changes (e.g., ODS-5) compared to relying on RMS for most of that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:46:55 -0400r2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weeko. Message-ID: <3D6F855F.C790DB27@mindspring.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  H > Maybe VMS(, UN*X, Linux, etc.) needs a disk data storage equivalent toI > the "seven layer model", huh? ...so there would be clearer distinctionsoF > between the operations of the ODS (filesystem) and RMS (file system,D > with a space between the words) layers, and which layer does what.  0 It's not by accident that the MacOS has *ALWAYS*0 kept some file metadata that is mostly-invisible- to the casual observer. Because of this, file * extensions on the Macintosh are never more+ than a hint used to resolve what to do with-" files imported from other systems.  2 RMS was a step in this direction, but it didn't go. far enough as it didn't encompass this idea of. "creator" (identifying the preferred consumer)3 or "filetype" (identifying the set of all potential  consumers).e   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:33:38 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s+ Subject: Re: silliest thing heard this weekv8 Message-ID: <m70vmu84g9hq822p5ns7do0hab7itot2i8@4ax.com>  B On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:04:23 GMT, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> wrote:   >  >aH >Because it doesn't need one. See above. We've added improvements to DCLL >in recent years such as case preservation, pipes, and (coming soon) longer G >command lines. We're always looking for ways to improve the operating rG >system. (When we run out of ideas for new features, many of us here in   E Command and filename completion! If the freeware DCLComplete could dowE a reasonable job on VAX then why not a supported port for Alpha. Heckp@ even an unsupported Alpha port of DCLComplete. Yeh, I know I was spoiled by TOPS-20.t   > B >I use bash on VMS on a regular basis simply for the command-line F >completion feature. Others have posted that they use perl, or python,   There's an answer to that one!     -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:52:30 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Simple cluster + Message-ID: <aknf8u$ia6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>n   In article <rdeininger-2808022200500001@1cust174.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:< >In article <3D6D74C5.54B62C7B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" ><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:T >C >iK >>> > > As others have responded, this won't work.  With 2 systems having 1 K >>> > > vote each, quorum is 2 ((n+1)/2).  If one system crashes, the other  >>> > > hangs. >>> >i >>> > 2+1=3 / >>> > 3/2=1 (integer math, remainder truncated)n >>> >i# >>> > Therefore, quorum = 1, right?b >>> # >>> QUORUM = (EXPECTED_VOTES + 2)/2o >>> O >>> (2+2)/2 = 2 so the quorum is 2. If it were one the cluster could partition.M >> >>Try again: >>! >>QUORUM = (EXPECTED_VOTES + 1)/2S >>                           ^ >>2+1=3T >>3/2=1A >v >No! >mI >The manual has several paragraphs in a table, but the relevant line saysp? >"QUORUM = (EXPECTED_VOTES + 2)/2        |        Rounded down"h >r
 >Which gives:a >Expected_votes       Quorum >--------------------------- >1                     1 >2                     2 >3                     2 >4                     3 >5                     3 > etc. >r. >A non-mathematical way to think about quorum:K >   If the quorum and votes are configured correctly, then any possible way0H >   of dividing up a cluster will yield at most ONE group of nodes stillN >   connected together which have enough votes to reach quorum.  You can neverJ >   end up with two (or more) sub-clusters which see enough votes to reach >   quorum.9 > J >With two nodes, 1 vote each, it wouldn't work to have quorum equal 1.  IfK >we cut  communication between the nodes, each sub-cluster would still have H >1 vote.  We CAN'T allow 1 vote to make quorum, because that would allowI >both sub-clusters to continue operating, each thinking it was the "real"PI >cluster.  So quorum MUST be two in this case, for safety.  Which is justP/ >what the documented formula tells us, as well.I  B I believe there used to be a previous definition of the Algorithm   5 QUORUM = (EXPECTED_VOTES + 1)/2      rounded up !!!!!T   Which of course also gives   Expected_votes       QuorumV ---------------------------d 1                     1e 2                     2n 3                     2. 4                     3n 5                     3   etc.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:00:28 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>! Subject: Re: Support for MPE (OT) ? Message-ID: <20020830130028.7305.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>o  . May be OpenVMS users should join MPE users and( create the www.openvms-mpe.org portal !    Regards-   FC -2 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:4 > OK, I know it isn't directly related to VMS, but I$ > found it of interest nevertheless./ > (PS. at this time HP is trading below $14.00)F > 0 > Bradmark Reaffirms Its Support of the HP e3000 > Community;6 > Maintenance Savings Plan Secures Support and Savings > On Futurec > Upgrade Costs  >  >   8/29/02 9:00am s > 3 > HOUSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 29, 2002--Bradmarkc > Technologies Inc., anc4 > established provider of data management solutions, > today announced an. > Maintenance Savings Plan aimed at easing the# > concerns of those loyal customers[1 > who will be migrating from the HP 3000 to otherS > platforms. > 1 > Since Hewlett Packard's decision to discontinue/  > support for the HP e3000, many6 > users have developed their migration strategies, but > in most cases these plans 6 > will take some time to complete. In the meantime, HP > e3000 users are lookingm1 > for continuity and stability with their current  > software providers.o > 4 > Bradmark's Maintenance Savings Plan allows current > customers to receive4 > preferential rates for software maintenance for up > to 24 months, giving themt4 > time to carefully consider their choices and fully > implement the migration,/ > knowing that their maintenance rates will not ! > increase and that Bradmark will % > continue to provide 24 x 7 support.. > 5 > "We are committed to providing the highest level ofh > support for our customerst3 > by continuing to back the HP 3000 community  <etct
 > etc etc> >  > 1 >   This program also includes special pricing on   > Bradmark's DBGeneral and other4 > products for the HP 3000, such as SUPERDEX(R) <etc
 > etc etc> > 2 >   "HP 3000 users know what it means to have high > availability systems," saidi5 > Tashenberg. "As they migrate to other platforms andi > databases, Bradmark will6 > also be there with tools to help them maintain those > high standards." > 3 >   DBGeneral(R) and NORAD(TM) are available direct  > from Bradmark Technologies4 > or through its  worldwide network of distributors. > $ >   About Bradmark Technologies Inc. > 2 >   Bradmark Technologies Inc. provides management > tools for Hewlett-Packard: > IMAGE databasesM >   <etc etc etc>- >  -/ >  CONTACT: Bradmark Technologies Inc., Houston0     =====A ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilg fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotess http://finance.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:01:51 +0100"% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance8 Message-ID: <hacumu82koep67c6htsf9308c7qvn3kpqj@4ax.com>  2 On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:22:34 +0200, "Philip Lewis"" <FerrariTR512m@hotmail.com> wrote:   >Gentlemen,M >a> >I giver the "Power Barge" http://www.bwsc.dk/power.asp?ppl=15   How about this:2   http://www.havenco.com/.  ? HavenCo has been providing services since May 2000 and is fullymD operational, offering the world's most secure managed servers in the> world's only true free market environment, the Principality ofE Sealand. Our testing period is now over, and we can offer services toCA all businesses which comply with our Acceptable Use Policy. Setupn> takes approximately 3-5 days, and dedicated servers in managedE colocation, with ample bandwidth, are competitively priced with othery! secure centers around the world. s  B We are currently undergoing a major web redesign, and hope to haveF updated webpages with photographs, detailed technical information, andA real-time performance and uptime measurements available shortly. e  ? As the security of sensitive data over public networks grows intC importance, businesses, governments and organizations worldwide aremC realizing the need for a suitable facility from which to host theirtB eCommerce, financial transaction, B2B and email servers as well asD sensitive data backups. A large part of a server's physical securityB is dependent upon the political system of the country in which theE server is located. We will be providing the business structure in thel$ world's first free-market location.   B The Principality of Sealand is a former World War II anti-aircraftD military fortress in the North Sea. Only authorized persons directlyD involved in the HavenCo project are permitted to land on the island.A The Sealand Government is ideal for web business, as there are noj/ direct reporting or registration requirements. l     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:09:06 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance, Message-ID: <3D6F443A.31EF287E@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote: D > The Principality of Sealand is a former World War II anti-aircraftF > military fortress in the North Sea. Only authorized persons directlyF > involved in the HavenCo project are permitted to land on the island.C > The Sealand Government is ideal for web business, as there are no 0 > direct reporting or registration requirements.  C From a web perspective, I wonder if there would be any data privacynL implications. If you deal with a company on a real contry, that company mustH abide by that country's data privacy regulations. But if the web site isK located on such an island, it might present interesting "very relaxed" data M security rules allowing all sorts of interesting transations to take place to  sell data to others.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:01:32 GMTI$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance8 Message-ID: <00A1335A.020841B2@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3D6F443A.31EF287E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Alan Greig wrote:E >> The Principality of Sealand is a former World War II anti-aircraft G >> military fortress in the North Sea. Only authorized persons directlydG >> involved in the HavenCo project are permitted to land on the island. D >> The Sealand Government is ideal for web business, as there are no1 >> direct reporting or registration requirements.r >yD >From a web perspective, I wonder if there would be any data privacyM >implications. If you deal with a company on a real contry, that company must I >abide by that country's data privacy regulations. But if the web site isAL >located on such an island, it might present interesting "very relaxed" dataN >security rules allowing all sorts of interesting transations to take place to >sell data to others.:  K Yes, I'm sure the data privacy regulations of (insert your favorite corrupt-K dictatorship here) help you to sleep warm at night. Sealand is motivated toiL treat its customers well because they have nothing else to sell but treatingO their customers well - they can't grow crops, they can't charge property taxes,- they have no minerals.   -- AlanA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:16:18 +0100o* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance, Message-ID: <aknk54$1c0s@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  a "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:3D6F443A.31EF287E@videotron.ca...r  E > From a web perspective, I wonder if there would be any data privacyhN > implications. If you deal with a company on a real contry, that company mustJ > abide by that country's data privacy regulations. But if the web site isM > located on such an island, it might present interesting "very relaxed" data O > security rules allowing all sorts of interesting transations to take place to, > sell data to others.  K Perversely, if Sealand were a real country it would be possibly illegal forwF personal data on EU citizens to be processed there. You're not allowed> to ship the data out of jurisdiction to sidestep privacy laws.  H Life's tough for small nations that don't have any bilateral agreements:& anyone remember 'Passport to Pimlico"?   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 2002 11:44:22 GMT From: bit-bucket@maney.org6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance- Message-ID: <aknlqm$gfi$1@newsread.stdio.com>m  B In comp.unix.solaris Bill Gunshannon <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:   [...]c  I : While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/iseI : a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related todD : 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureJ : locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingL : what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacenter : in the WTC building??   F : And, considering 9/11, why would anyone put something that critical 1 : anywhere it might be a target in the future??  a  D To me, being the paranoid nut that I am, this never made sense. OnceC we got to the place where highspeed communications (voice and data) B are readily available damn near everywhere in the country, why didA we keep packing it all into tight little areas that are atrociousnC locations on so many levels (environmental impact, cost of living,  4 standard of living, physical security, etc.. etc..)?  F : Let's take a look at alternatives. How many terrorists do you think A : could find Forty-Fort, PA on a map, much less on the ground??  e  9 Or, more importantly for the 9/11 argument, from the air.s  A What about Lexington, KY? Local airport with commercial passengernB jet service, multiple high internet links, two universities, largeC supply of technical talent (well, at least in certain areas), larger@ supply of unused office space, about an hour drive to two large . metro areas (Cincinnati and Louisville).......  ; Thousands and thousands of places like this in the country.e  D : All it takes to have real security and reliability is a change of ? : mindset.  And that's a lot harder to develop than technology.b  F And, unfortunately, it is something that doesn't seem to be developing at all in this country.y   fpsm -- dG | Fredrich P. Maney              my_last_name AT my_last_name DOT org | G |   Do NOT send me HTML formatted E-mail or copies of netnews posts!  |eG |  Address in header is a spamtrap. Use one in signature for replies. |-G |       Please review http://www.maney.org/uce/ before emailing.      |K   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 2002 11:45:39 GMT From: bit-bucket@maney.org6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance- Message-ID: <aknlt3$gfi$2@newsread.stdio.com>r  < In comp.unix.solaris Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> wrote: : Bill Gunshannon wrote: :> TJ :> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isJ :> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related toE :> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureR0 :> locations and don't advertise where they are.  M : With the money you save on rent from moving out of the big city, maybe you oI : could *afford* two sites! You're right; it fixes the problem as relatedsK : to 9/11, but if you're running a truly critical service, you're probably pJ : still awake nights worrying about earthquakes, flash floods, tornadoes, N : hurricanes, chemical spills, fires, and the new college intern accidentally  : hitting the Big Red Button.i  F That's what two sites are for. It is pretty unlikely that both of themG are going to be struck by a natural disaster or idiot at the same time.a   fpsm -- oG | Fredrich P. Maney              my_last_name AT my_last_name DOT org |cG |   Do NOT send me HTML formatted E-mail or copies of netnews posts!  |dG |  Address in header is a spamtrap. Use one in signature for replies. |aG |       Please review http://www.maney.org/uce/ before emailing.      |s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:21:19 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance8 Message-ID: <1jjumuclnaj0kgo4rb5lff8cu3kmr4rflt@4ax.com>  , On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:09:06 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:f   >Alan Greig wrote:E >> The Principality of Sealand is a former World War II anti-aircraftoG >> military fortress in the North Sea. Only authorized persons directlyeG >> involved in the HavenCo project are permitted to land on the island.sD >> The Sealand Government is ideal for web business, as there are no1 >> direct reporting or registration requirements.g >0D >From a web perspective, I wonder if there would be any data privacyM >implications. If you deal with a company on a real contry, that company musteI >abide by that country's data privacy regulations. But if the web site isaL >located on such an island, it might present interesting "very relaxed" dataN >security rules allowing all sorts of interesting transations to take place to >sell data to others.h  E Yes, and I'd have other questions about it as well. Not least that itsF wouldn't surprise me if it is a front for, oh someone or other. An  exB military artificial island supposedly now claimed by an ex British Army Officer...   C You'd have to know the history of offshore pirate radio stations insE Europe (Radio Nord See International (Radio North Sea) in particular) D and alleged Soviet funding to understand why this might be not quiteD what it seems. Of course these allegations have been made before and firmly denied by all concerned.8  A The UK government is currently selling off another three of these@6 offshore fortresses which are definitely UK territory.  E In any case it would absolutely astonish me if this "island" remained,F "independent" if the UK government really wanted it out of the way. ItF is only a few miles offshore and maybe thirty miles from London or so, inside UK territorial waters.n -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:35:37 GMT>& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance& Message-ID: <3D6F64F1.1121FD7B@hp.com>  $ "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote:; > Any of those old Minuteman missile silos still available?g& > Talk about a Disaster-Tolerant site!  * You can buy anything on ebay these days...  = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1761906773    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:08:15 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)p6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance; Message-ID: <37Kb9.169897$Yd.7424522@twister.austin.rr.com>   ) Richard Brodie (R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk) wrote:  : J : Perversely, if Sealand were a real country it would be possibly illegal L : for personal data on EU citizens to be processed there. You're not allowed@ : to ship the data out of jurisdiction to sidestep privacy laws. : J : Life's tough for small nations that don't have any bilateral agreements:( : anyone remember 'Passport to Pimlico"? : I Apparently India has bilateral agreements, since credit-card and medical 1@ information is routinely sent to India's back-office operations:  ,    http://news.com.com/2100-1040-277506.html>    India becoming world's back office -  Tech News -  CNET.com    1   "...India's latest export: IT-enabled services.o  H    These include telemarketing, helpdesk support, medical transcription,@    back-office accounting, payroll management, maintaining legalH    databases, insurance claim and credit-card processing, animation, andI    higher-end engineering design--all of which can be delivered by phone,d     computer and the Internet..."  F Both American Express and MasterCard have their credit-card processing centers there.  ' No CEO can resist a payback of a month:   N    http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2865181,00.html0    ZDNet: Tech Update: Enterprise Applications /(    Global services jobs landing in India  G   "...Some business groups estimate a large multinational can typicallyfH    recoup within a month the cost of setting up 10,000-strong operations    in India.  I    And the threat of disorder, posed by tension with neighboring PakistanEI    and religious riots in the western state of Gujarat, does not outweigh-H    the savings gained by transferring big chunks of back office and call!    center operations to India..."n  I India's BPO organizations are credited for the abrupt halt of the nuclear0( saber-rattling between India & Pakistan:  9    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/opinion/11FRIE.html?r)    ex=1030184358&ei=1&en=4557d7e03e8af1aer    India, Pakistan and G.E.:      By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN  A   "...In the meantime, this cease-fire is brought to you by G.E. a*    and all its friends here in Bangalore."    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailh   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 10:43:35 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)/6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance3 Message-ID: <n3fb2iQYEGtj@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  J In article <aknlt3$gfi$2@newsread.stdio.com>, bit-bucket@maney.org writes:> > In comp.unix.solaris Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> wrote: > : Bill Gunshannon wrote: > :>  L > :> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isL > :> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related toG > :> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscure 2 > :> locations and don't advertise where they are. > O > : With the money you save on rent from moving out of the big city, maybe you  K > : could *afford* two sites! You're right; it fixes the problem as related M > : to 9/11, but if you're running a truly critical service, you're probably  L > : still awake nights worrying about earthquakes, flash floods, tornadoes, P > : hurricanes, chemical spills, fires, and the new college intern accidentally  > : hitting the Big Red Button.  > H > That's what two sites are for. It is pretty unlikely that both of themI > are going to be struck by a natural disaster or idiot at the same time.i >   > 	Well... depends.  If the two sites are a hundred yards apart,D 	there is a good possibility of being struck at the same time - when 	struck.  A 	There seems to be rules of thumbs in all this.  Not speaking fora? 	anyone but I do know that I would be more comfortable if sites ; 	were 10 miles apart.  I know folks that have DR sites less A 	than 3, 4 miles apart.  Much of this DR stuff is an exercise foro@ 	many people.  After all, it is statistically rare , but can you) 	take the chance?  Sounds like sales, eh?i   				Robg   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:16:04 -0400_  From: "Dan" <bill@microsoft.com>6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance< Message-ID: <n%Lb9.12537$D02.134475@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>  ' <bit-bucket@maney.org> wrote in message"' news:aknlqm$gfi$1@newsread.stdio.com... D > In comp.unix.solaris Bill Gunshannon <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote: >m > [...]c >sK > : While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/is"K > : a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related to F > : 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscureL > : locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingC > : what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting ther
 datacenter > : in the WTC building?? G > : And, considering 9/11, why would anyone put something that critical,1 > : anywhere it might be a target in the future??h >mF > To me, being the paranoid nut that I am, this never made sense. OnceE > we got to the place where highspeed communications (voice and data)rD > are readily available damn near everywhere in the country, why didC > we keep packing it all into tight little areas that are atrociouseD > locations on so many levels (environmental impact, cost of living,6 > standard of living, physical security, etc.. etc..)? <snip>  L One of the things about WTC and why it had such an impact on the entire cityK (computerwise) is it was the end of one of the biggest (if not the biggest)hL trunk lines connecting the island of Manhattan to New Jersey and the rest of
 the world.  I This summer there was a big huff over letting Long Island using powerline I connection to Connecticut when the summer got hot and everybody turned ono	 their AC.i  L The point is both are islands and required the digging of tunnels to connect: them.  New tunnels or bridges are 20 year projects easily.  J Personally, I don't see why they don't just put a dam on the north side ofL Manhattan and back fill the river the length of the island.  Sure seems likeD in the long run it would be cheaper then maintaining the bridges and tunnels.  G > : Let's take a look at alternatives. How many terrorists do you think-A > : could find Forty-Fort, PA on a map, much less on the ground??0 >9; > Or, more importantly for the 9/11 argument, from the air.u >cC > What about Lexington, KY? Local airport with commercial passenger3D > jet service, multiple high internet links, two universities, largeE > supply of technical talent (well, at least in certain areas), largetA > supply of unused office space, about an hour drive to two largea0 > metro areas (Cincinnati and Louisville)....... > = > Thousands and thousands of places like this in the country.n > I And out of country unfortunately.  I know of one company that moved their I development support to Mexico and entire help desk to India.  Lowered theh" payroll cost by 90% I would guess.   <snip> :   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 11:10:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance3 Message-ID: <WqPn87S$XrcD@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <n3fb2iQYEGtj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:rL > In article <aknlt3$gfi$2@newsread.stdio.com>, bit-bucket@maney.org writes:  I >> That's what two sites are for. It is pretty unlikely that both of themaJ >> are going to be struck by a natural disaster or idiot at the same time. >> w > @ > 	Well... depends.  If the two sites are a hundred yards apart,F > 	there is a good possibility of being struck at the same time - when
 > 	struck. > C > 	There seems to be rules of thumbs in all this.  Not speaking foraA > 	anyone but I do know that I would be more comfortable if sitesn= > 	were 10 miles apart.  I know folks that have DR sites lessr > 	than 3, 4 miles apart.e  : Distance is not the only factor.  "Local knowledge" helps.  D In California the two sites are typically located so they are not onC the same fault line.  In the midwest US the two sites are typicallyiB located so they are not on the same bearing from each other as the$ path that tornados typically follow.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 2002 17:53:19 GMT From: bit-bucket@maney.org6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance- Message-ID: <akobef$44a$4@newsread.stdio.com>p  @ In comp.unix.solaris Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@sun.com> wrote:* : Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> writes:   :>Bill Gunshannon wrote: :>> K :>> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/is.K :>> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related to6F :>> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscure1 :>> locations and don't advertise where they are.   M :>With the money you save on rent from moving out of the big city, maybe you tI :>could *afford* two sites! You're right; it fixes the problem as relatedcK :>to 9/11, but if you're running a truly critical service, you're probably aJ :>still awake nights worrying about earthquakes, flash floods, tornadoes, N :>hurricanes, chemical spills, fires, and the new college intern accidentally  :>hitting the Big Red Button.   @ : Wyoming, Idaho?  (Only need a bullet/stampede proof building?)  E Considering that there are far more shots fired in NYC every day than D in Idaho, I think worrying much about that is being overly paranoid.   fpsm -- EG | Fredrich P. Maney              my_last_name AT my_last_name DOT org |tG |   Do NOT send me HTML formatted E-mail or copies of netnews posts!  |oG |  Address in header is a spamtrap. Use one in signature for replies. |oG |       Please review http://www.maney.org/uce/ before emailing.      |2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:33:53 -0500t7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>m. Subject: Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changesG Message-ID: <craigberry-162531.10335330082002@news.directvinternet.com>t  B In article <NZBb9.170890$Aw4.7312173@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,,  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  J > One really can't help but wonder why the most active fora on these sites, > suddenly became so cloaked in obscurity:    G Today there is a new "General" forum" at openvms.org, so there are now  F 5 out of 6 fora linked from the home page instead 4 out of 5 as there D were yesterday.  The only forum not linked from the home page (both E yesterday and today) is one on the HP/Compaq merger which has had no IC activitity for a couple of months.  Your conspiracy theory is just  4 completely at odds with what's actually on the site.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:53:21 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>. Subject: Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changes@ Message-ID: <RxMb9.38703$On.1869707@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  B "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> wrote in messageA news:craigberry-162531.10335330082002@news.directvinternet.com...gD > In article <NZBb9.170890$Aw4.7312173@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,. >  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: >cL > > One really can't help but wonder why the most active fora on these sites, > > suddenly became so cloaked in obscurity: >l7 > Today there is a new "General" forum" at openvms.org,p  L What an amazing coincidence!  And to think that it was only yesterday that IA happened to notice the lack of one!  Surely there couldn't be anyy
 connection...t    so there are nowuG > 5 out of 6 fora linked from the home page instead 4 out of 5 as there E > were yesterday.  The only forum not linked from the home page (bothtF > yesterday and today) is one on the HP/Compaq merger which has had noD > activitity for a couple of months.  Your conspiracy theory is just6 > completely at odds with what's actually on the site.  D My, either you're a complete idiot or yourself under the sway of HP:  K 1.  The new general forum is not the original OpenVMS forum:  it's new, ande currently empty.  J 2.  Contrary to your assertion that the HP/Compaq merger forum is the onlyL one not linked from the home page, the original OpenVMS forum (with all thatH embarrassing criticism of VMS's owner) *still* isn't accessible from the6 home page (nor is the forum list on which it appears).  K 3.  The original OpenVMS forum, however, still enjoys activity (most recenta? post 8/27/02), so lack of activity doesn't explain its absence.m  H 4.  The original Tru64 forum remains similarly absent from the Tru64.org
 home page.  H Next time, at least *try* to make *something* in your response accurate.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:21:05 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>. Subject: Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changesC Message-ID: <RXMb9.294495$m91.11958914@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagem: news:RxMb9.38703$On.1869707@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...   ...t  F > My, either you're a complete idiot or yourself under the sway of HP:  + Shit.  I'm the idiot this time.  Mea culpa.k   > I > 1.  The new general forum is not the original OpenVMS forum:  it's new,a and  > currently empty.   That statement was correct.    >oL > 2.  Contrary to your assertion that the HP/Compaq merger forum is the onlyI > one not linked from the home page, the original OpenVMS forum (with alla thatJ > embarrassing criticism of VMS's owner) *still* isn't accessible from the8 > home page (nor is the forum list on which it appears).  H That one was not, however.  While the name of the forum was changed fromK 'OpenVMS' to 'technical' (may have been 'OpenVMS technical' yesterday), the J content appears to be that of the old 'OpenVMS' forum.  I can only supposeD that I did not scroll down sufficiently to see the old stuff before.   ...r  J > 4.  The original Tru64 forum remains similarly absent from the Tru64.org > home page.  L I'm not sure about that one:  while there is a 'Tru64 Admin' forum which mayH be the original 'Tru64' forum, I can't find some of the things I thoughtJ were in the latter.  But given my error above, I'll give it the benefit of
 the doubt.   >eJ > Next time, at least *try* to make *something* in your response accurate.  K As I said before, mea culpa.  This is the first time I've ever been temptediD to cancel a post, but that wouldn't have been adequately apologetic.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:00:17 GMTt, From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>. Subject: Re: tru64.org and openvms.org changes> Message-ID: <BwNb9.37940$iX4.1435286@twister.southeast.rr.com>  E Oh, you weren't supposed to notice that.  I had dinner with Carly ands> Michael the other day and they asked me to remove it.  Sheesh!  L You're thinking too much Bill.  The changes are an effort on my part to drawE more traffic and participation in the forums.  I'm not trying to hideo	 anything.g  J The original OpenVMS forum was intended to be technical from the start, orK at least I assumed it would be used for technical discussion.  Over time itKF became a mix of technical and political issues.  Either way, it wasn'tJ getting enough traffic so I added the word "technical" in front to try andG draw more participation.  In addition, from a suggestion, I added a BugnF Report forum.  The old HP-Compaq forum, intended to be used for mergerI discussion never drew any traffic so I de-listed it from the forums menu,-E although I never deleted it, that's why you still see it when listing5J forums.  I added a General discussion forum this morning.  The old OpenVMS forum will remain as Technical.s  K As far as the press releases.  Since the merger I've been placed on severalnI lists.  Many more releases are coming from HP than ever came from Compaq.sF All I'm doing is posting any relative releases for each site.  GettingI material to post is a constaint struggle.  The press releases help keep a-L constaint flow instead of large gaps in the news.  Plus many people normally don't get to see them.  F As I write this I see you posted a few more comments.  I only have oneI question for you.  Have you taken your medicine today?  You know what ther' doctor said about your mood swings.  :)    --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.orgs      5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea= news:yGzb9.282498$m91.11451621@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...uI > Tru64.org and openvms.org are a good deal quieter than they used to be,mI > apparently largely because the forums have been redefined to avoid many,E > kinds of discussions (both technical - e.g., the relative merits ofa currentfK > and future hardware platforms - and non-technical - e.g., the behavior ofcI > the parent corporation) that had until recently spiced them up.  If thet restK > of the material at the sites had changed similarly that would at least be L > consistent.  However, Ken still trots out articles of all types that mightH > be of interest to his former readership, but now provides no forums in whicha > to discuss them. >eF > For example, he just posted the HP press release about new Superdome 'worldH > records' (thinly disguised as a Business Wire article, but with the HPK > disclaimer at its end) in tru64.org, which really begs responses pointingtL > out that the TPC-C result is not any kind of world record at all, at leastD > not at the tpc.org site, which still lists the Fujitsu SPARC-basedK > PRIMEPOWER entry at the top of the TPC-C non-clustered list, with the new I > Superdome entry firmly in second place.  True, the Fujitsu box uses 128nK > processors and the Superdome only 64, but then the IBM Regatta nipping at L > Superdome's heels in third place uses only 32, so that's hardly a relevantK > factor in Superdome's favor - though the article acts as if it were later J > when comparing Superdome's per-processor performance to SunFire's in theD > TPC-H area, even though the difference is far less dramatic there.K > Similarly, the article points out the marginal cost/performance advantagenD > Superdome enjoys over Regatta in TPC-C, but fails to point out the marginal3 > advantage SunFire enjoys over Superdome in TPC-H.m >tK > And in openvms.org he posted another thinly-veiled HP press release about L > its recent financial performance, which nearly completely glosses over theA > massive loss (over $2 billion) in the just-completed quarter by- emphasizing-H > 'pro forma' (and unaudited) results that simply keep sweeping expenses underuK > a rather arbitrary rug until the fudged numbers work out the way HP wouldfK > have liked them to.  The one reference to *actual* performance both failsi toH > identify the dollar amount of the loss and presents the per-share loss withK > the notation 'GAAP':  one might easily believe that *that* was the resultcK > that had only some kind of nominal, rather than substantive, significanceu ifF > one did not know that GAAP stands for 'generally accepted accountingE > practices' - i.e., the way results are *supposed* to be calculated.d >tJ > To Ken's credit, he also provides pointers to articles less favorable to HP.uI > But for sites that claim to be 'forums' for those interested in the two A > operating systems, they seem far more 'read-only' now than thatgJ > characterization used to suggest.  Since they don't even provide a means foruF > reader feedback (at least that I could find), I'm providing it here. >f > - bill >  >  >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:59:28 +0100a& From: David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com>- Subject: RE: VAX/Alpha Basic example programsbS Message-ID: <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BAE4236@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>    Hi,   I Thanks for your help and input.  I have given up on the idea of including G the formatted RRD file into BASIC.  As with most things with a bit moreh* investigation I found a better solution.    	 Regards, d 	David.    -----Original Message-----' From: sasadmin [mailto:jec@nospam.net] s Sent: 29 August 2002 02:31 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu- Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha Basic example programsl  ( David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com> writes:   > Greeting all,  > K > I find myself in the position of needing to write a routine in VAX-BASIC.3C > Quite honestly, it's been sometime since I have done this and was:	 wonderingoI > if anyone knows of a good site with some example programs.  The OpenVMSsL > documentation site gives small code snippets but not what I'm looking for. > H > I'm trying to include an .RRD file in the basic program as output fromI > Oracle RMU/UNLOAD.  We have BASIC but nobody has ever used it, hence noa9 > source code to look through.  We also do NOT have CDD. r >  > XDS_APACHE> typ cw.rrd5 > DEFINE FIELD LAST_NAME DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 14.P6 > DEFINE FIELD FIRST_NAME DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 10.0 > DEFINE FIELD DBKEY DATATYPE IS TEXT SIZE IS 8. > DEFINE RECORD CANDIDATES_VW. >    LAST_NAME . >    FIRST_NAME .e > END CANDIDATES_VW RECORD.  >  > Thanks in advance,  
 > 	David.  >  > OpenVMS 7.1 (alpha)y > DEC/COMPAQ/HP BASIC V1.3   >    David:  F I didn't see any responses to what seemed your question: How to use an RRD file in BASIC.  F You won't be able to include the RRD file into BASIC, as it's not in a? format that the language understands. The compiler does have aneD interface to the CDD which will translate CDD definitions into BASIC, syntax. Unfortunately, you don't have CDD...  E So, you will have to translate the RRD file by hand into BASIC RECORDhD definition and then %include it into your program. Fortunately, thisH should be a one-time translation, since the table structure isn't likely@ to change. If it does, consider defining a view to give you just the columns you need.f  A Also, if you have any facility with TPU, you could write a simplehB mapping function that takes RRD input and generates RECORD output.   --   Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:00:40 +0100s8 From: "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk>! Subject: VMS performance softwareaA Message-ID: <2EA918FE7CC6FB4BA0510D671ADB2AB40D7A29@elsoxfs02604>u  I Hi, I wonder if anyone could make any recommendations for VMS performance  monitoring/tuning softwareG I used to Polycentre Datacollector and Performance advisor and CapacityuI planner, but I don't think this exists or at least not supported on Alpha 	 platform. L What about Compaq Performance Analysis Web Zone (PAWZ)  has anyone used it ? Is it what I need?E If anyone could suggest a product they have used I would be extremelyi grateful   Regards    Paul Hansford  e VMS System Manager           ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>% Subject: Re: VMS performance softwareg@ Message-ID: <20020830171617.70008.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>   There is the ECP from Compaq.t1 We are using it in one specific server to collectu0 data and trying to convince our IT customers the needing of buying a GS server.     Regards    FC  6 --- "Hansford, Paul (ELS)" <P.Hansford@elsevier.co.uk> wrote:' > Hi, I wonder if anyone could make any % > recommendations for VMS performance  > monitoring/tuning software4 > I used to Polycentre Datacollector and Performance > advisor and Capacity4 > planner, but I don't think this exists or at least > not supported on Alpha > platform.r1 > What about Compaq Performance Analysis Web Zone  > (PAWZ)  has anyone used it ? > Is it what I need?4 > If anyone could suggest a product they have used I > would be extremely
 > grateful > 	 > Regards> >  > Paul Hansford    > VMS System Manager             =====e ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilp fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotesw http://finance.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:07:21 +0200 , From: "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net>& Subject: W2K backup to Pathworks share6 Message-ID: <akn22o$1j7b6d$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>  1 Not quite the right place, but I got no answer int5 vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks, so retrying here :o  L I'm trying to use the Windows 2000 backup program (version 5.0 from Veritas)I to save local files to a share. It does not work with pathworks shares asmL destination. Error message is : "drive is invalid, or no access" (but access/ is okay). Shares from WNT servers are accepted.   F Vice-versa: Saving files from a pathworks share to a local disk works. Pathworks is version 7.2A>   What may happen ?n   Rainer Giese   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Aug 2002 16:28:30 GMT) From: Harald Harders <h.harders@tu-bs.de> , Subject: Re: Where are fonts on VMS systems?< Message-ID: <slrnamv7al.qvf.h.harders@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>  9 On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:58:20 GMT, Bart Z. Lederman wrote:ej > In article <slrnamrkrn.ij6.h.harders@pc52.ifw.ing.tu-bs.de>, Harald Harders <h.harders@tu-bs.de> writes: >>F >>I am programming a patch for gnuplot which embeddes postscript fonts< >>(pfa, pfb) and TrueType fonts (ttf) into postscript plots.D >>This patch searches for the font files in a system dependent path.D >>Since I don't have a VMS system running I need your help to define >>the path for VMS.hE >>Thus, my question is: Where are font files (pfa, pfb, ttf) normallyrD >>stored in a VMS system? Are there any environmental variables that >>may help?t > ? > This may be quite a challenge to develop if you don't have ann< > OpenVMS system to debug on, but the place to start looking9 > is usually SYS$COMMON:[SYSFONT] and the sub-directoriesm > below it.o   [...]o  C Thank you very much. I have implemented some code. I hope it works.g5 Is somebody here, who could test the patched gnuplot?w   Harald     -- o9 Harald Harders                              Langer Kamp 8a@ Institut fr Werkstoffe                     D-38106 Braunschweig3 Technische Universitt Braunschweig         GermanyaK E-Mail: h.harders@tu-bs.de                  Tel: +49 (0)5 31 - 3 91 - 30 62rK WWW   : http://www.tu-bs.de/institute/ifw/  Fax: +49 (0)5 31 - 3 91 - 30 58a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.478 ************************nder why the most active fora on these sites, > suddenly became so cloaked in obscurity:    G Today there is a new "General" forum" at openvms.org, so there are now  F 5 out of 6 fora linked from the home page instead 4 out of 5 as there D were yesterday.  The only forum not linked from the home page (both E yesterday and today) is one on the HP/Compaq merger which has had no IC activitity for a couple of months.  Your c*    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *     +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    	+    
+    +    +    
+    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +     +    !+    "+    #+    $+    %+    &+    '+    (+    )+    *+    ++    ,+    -+    .+    /+    0+    1+    2+    3+    4+    5+    6+    7+    8+    9+    :+    ;+    <+    =+    >+    ?+    @+    A+    B+    C+    D+    E+    F+    G+    H+    I+    J+    K+    L+    M+    N+    O+    P+    Q+    R+    S+    T+    U+    V+    W+    X+    Y+    Z+    [+    \+    ]+    ^+    _+    `+    a+    b+    c+    d+    e+    f+    g+    h+    i+    j+    k+    l+    m+    n+    o+    p+    q+    r+    s+    t+    u+    v+    w+    x+    y+    z+    {+    |+    }+    ~+    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    