1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 31 Aug 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 480       Contents:	 Re: am/pm ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) ? Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?) < Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix< Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix< Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix0 Re: Booting the hobbyist OpenVMS from InfoServer& Did you "get a glimpse of the future"?E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) E Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly) . Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4. Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4. RE: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4. Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4 Re: Help installing Pine Re: Help installing Pine$ Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works5 Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu application  Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX  Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements 9 Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements  Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing  Re: Old games for VAX system.  Physical disks Re: Physical disksA Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum? A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?  TCPIP services: SLIP question - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance - RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance   Re: The steps to setup a printer VMS for i86  Re: VMS for i86 ! Re: W2K backup to Pathworks share = Re: White Paper on DT clustering - VMS as the "Gold Standard"   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 10:36:23 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: am/pm= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0208310936.4aaabef5@posting.google.com>   U "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:<agTb9.1673$Y3.257847@news.xtra.co.nz>... 6 > Just a quick question: Why is high noon called 12pm?    " Because it is! See my other post:   2 <343f30ae.0208291144.63e9646c@posting.google.com> D Subject: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)    6 > After all, that stands for "12 hours past meridium".0 > One would expect it to mean midnight in fact:)    F First of all, it's post meridiem, not past meridium. And it translates3 to "being after noon" according to www.webster.com.     2 > Or, how come 11:59:59am + 1 second = 12:00:00pm?> > After all, that thing just said said it's 11:59:59 hours etc3 > before the meridium. One second later it says the , > meridium is 12 hours past ... Go figure:-)    C Thank you for supporting my case against interpreting ante meridiem E and post meridiem too literally. Even the Merriam Webster definitions F are too ambiguous. Any time is after the last noon and before the nextA noon. So just saying before or after noon doesn't really tell you 	 anything.   A Words evolve, and Merriam Webster is behind the times on this one A (am/pm). We all know what cache means when it comes to computers. C Thus, the word cache has evolved to have a new, additional meaning.  The same goes for am and pm.  D Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing about whether am/pm is better orE worse than the 24-hour system. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. D I'm just saying that it's silly to insist that noon and midnight areC neither pm nor am. If you want to make a digital clock that has two E special extra LED's for noon and midnight and try to sell some, be my D guest! If you want to write an OS that displays noon or midnight, asF appropriate, for files whose time/stamps are 12:00:00.00, be my guest!B If you want to make a clock whose hour hand makes exactly one fullF revolution every 24 hours and try to sell some, be my guest! I have noF objection. (Note, I won't buy any of them!) I just find it odd that so9 many people object to the de facto, sensible, convenient, @ mathematically-based, logical, new convention for am/pm, therebyC insisting that am and pm are the only words in the English language  that are not allowed to evolve.      Disclaimer: JMO  Alan E. Feldman  spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 08:46:33 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)) Message-ID: <hACJPIT6GkVb@elias.decus.ch>   > In article <343f30ae.0208291144.63e9646c@posting.google.com>, 0 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:   > , > And thanks for helping me kill the thread. >    Thank goodness for that. :-)  7 The 24 hour clock renders such discussions unnecessary.    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 08:59:39 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)) Message-ID: <yYIqmKfrQWW8@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <3D6E90F5.D3EF7C16@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > About AM/PM... > > > Just skip am/pm all together and use 00:00:00  --  23::59.59" > as in most parts of the world... > F I have never been able to understand the phobia the US appears to have@ about the 24 hour clock. It is even seen in sit-coms where folks. go ballistic about the use of "military time".  : And from http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/gadgets/5944.shtml   '"Sun Sep 9 21:46:40 EST 2001"  G If you are used to looking at that date format, then you are probably a O sysadmin, or unix user. Taking this into account, we have attempted to find the K perfect watch, just for you, that displays the time using 24-hour movement. C Thus, we offer this unique and practical watch, with 24-hour dial.'    Eh?  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:32:15 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)J Message-ID: <rdeininger-3108020932150001@1cust90.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  F In article <yYIqmKfrQWW8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul
 Sture) wrote:    G >I have never been able to understand the phobia the US appears to have A >about the 24 hour clock. It is even seen in sit-coms where folks / >go ballistic about the use of "military time".   H If you are having trouble understanding the US, perhaps you are watchingI too many American sitcoms, or taking them too seriously.  They are hardly  representative.   F I've never been to England.  If I go, should I expect everything to be% like it is in "Are You Being Served?"    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 18:44:31 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) H Subject: Re: am/pm  (was Re: Is the HP/Compaq merger really going well?)) Message-ID: <6fp+oAKJw7F5@elias.decus.ch>    In article <rdeininger-3108020932150001@1cust90.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: H > In article <yYIqmKfrQWW8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul > Sture) wrote:  >   H >>I have never been able to understand the phobia the US appears to haveB >>about the 24 hour clock. It is even seen in sit-coms where folks0 >>go ballistic about the use of "military time". > J > If you are having trouble understanding the US, perhaps you are watchingK > too many American sitcoms, or taking them too seriously.  They are hardly  > representative.  >   I Not many US sitcoms here In Switzerland. Frazier was good in English, but 3 doesn't come across well in French (for me anyway).    H > I've never been to England.  If I go, should I expect everything to be' > like it is in "Are You Being Served?"   = No. Point taken, although you do get to see some stereotypes. H If you ever do visit the UK, please don't think London is representative of the entire country.  C There is some beautiful countryside in the UK, with friendly folks.   = Here is a taster, and the Scots, Irish and Welsh are free to  ! join in with their contributions.    http://www.yorksview.co.uk __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:14:28 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>E Subject: Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix 6 Message-ID: <akqbve$1l4n67$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  G Since VMS docs got sold with Sun station hardware on it this example of G marketing is hardly worth mentioning. Furthermore MS staff has problems K enough figuring out what runs and what not on their own incompatible set of E operating systems that they are excused of having any knowledge about  systems that live outside MS.   A "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht ) news:xrSb9.3204$Q%.105896@newsfep2-gui... C > It is in IT week dated 26/8 (and in some others as well I think). ' > It is two half pages spread over two. I > The head line is '1o [degree] of separation between your Windows server & > aficionados and your Unix devotees'.K > It goes on to say how biztalk solves all ills and then shows a case study  ofL > Dollar rent a car. However the server shown in the picture has VMS printed > below it.  > / > Anyone brought this to Microsoft's attention?  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:35:45 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> E Subject: Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix = Message-ID: <BK2c9.72124$_91.15113@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message 0 news:akqbve$1l4n67$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...I > Since VMS docs got sold with Sun station hardware on it this example of ' > marketing is hardly worth mentioning.   H That was a mistake made by Houston markerting wizards a year ago. It has since been rectified.   "  Furthermore MS staff has problemsJ > enough figuring out what runs and what not on their own incompatible set ofG > operating systems that they are excused of having any knowledge about  > systems that live outside MS.    Fair enough!   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 18:25:39 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) E Subject: Re: Anyone else noticed the Microsoft ad that calls VMS Unix ) Message-ID: <KWOkIB1stYX0@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <akqbve$1l4n67$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: I > Since VMS docs got sold with Sun station hardware on it this example of I > marketing is hardly worth mentioning. Furthermore MS staff has problems M > enough figuring out what runs and what not on their own incompatible set of G > operating systems that they are excused of having any knowledge about  > systems that live outside MS.  > D So you are saying that MS are a bunch of narrow minded incompetents?  ? Ooh - do a google on "dll hell", written by their own folks :-)  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 2002 05:46:47 GMT* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>9 Subject: Re: Booting the hobbyist OpenVMS from InfoServer ( Message-ID: <akpl87$m9t$0@216.39.146.95>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3D6FBB98.1CFFE55@videotron.ca...  > Ian King wrote: I > > the installation guide, and get to the 'Bootfile' prompt on the 3100;  thenH > > the machine starts to give me a RETRY error, over and over.  Using a network I > > sniffer, I can see the MOP packets going out with the proper bootfile  nameJ > > (ISL_SVAX_073); I can also see the InfoServer (150) advertising itself via J > > LAT.  The InfoServer's MOP counters show activity, including 'File not > > found' errors. >  > E > Looking at the VMS VAX Hobbysist CD, in the [SYS0.SYSEXE] directory  > (standalone backup), I see:  > C > ISL_LVAX_072.SYS and ISL_SVAX_072.SYS, as well as STANDALONE.EXE, C > STANDACONF.EXE, SYSBOOT.EXE SYSINIT.EXE VAXVMSSYS.PAR and VMB.EXE  > K > So the "073" might be what is the problem, unless there is a new hobbyist  CD > out with VMS 7.3  H May I have a "duh", please?  Thanks for helping me see the obvious - I'dJ been staring at both the OpenVMS install instructions (for 7.3, of course)+ and the InfoServer for too long....  -- Ian    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:56:01 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> / Subject: Did you "get a glimpse of the future"? ' Message-ID: <3D707692.8BB67BFC@Free.fr>   N I got via mail an ad from NHP. A leaflet with a coin, a few words from VP RichO Marcello on VMS and a nice picture of a Bausch & Lomb device on the first page.   $ What is it? A old Swiss wrist watch?# Mine is #1392. Did I win something? 4 If I turn the red knob, will I release Flood Dam #2?   :-)    D.0 (good to be back from a 5 days F77/VMS teach :-(   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:35:21 GMT  From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)0 Message-ID: <Ju4c9.139$hf3.1535@typhoon.bart.nl>  K I was sorry to read that text. Mr Shannon within 2 minutes you modified, by I your own words and typing skill, yourourself from an independent, skilled K writer about VMS into something that I've difficulties with describing in a  foreign language. L Your credibility is lost to me, not for your skills but the kind of repsonse
 you wrote.+ I don't mind missing you in this newsgroup.   
 Hans Vlems   PS' don't bother to reply, I won't read it.   > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> schreef in bericht( news:2Tvb9.225169$me6.30213@sccrnsc01... > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > > news:beXa9.130290$Aw4.5478762@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > @ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message: > > news:nUUa9.38653$_91.1034@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...J > > > Well, seems to me that HPQ pretty much made its numbers, and it sure as > > hellJ > > > doesn't look as bad as Sun (which might be a bargain at four bucks). > > I > > I guess if one considers a $2 billion loss for the quarter to be good  > news,  > > anyway.  > > K > > To avoid a great deal of additional (and unnecessary) typing, I'll just @ > > quote a note that I sent to Mike Magee tonight about various
 contributions G > > Terry has recently made to The Inquirer that sheds light on Terry's . > > objectivity about this, and other, topics: > >  > >  > > Dear Mike, > > I > > Since I read The Inquirer for content rather than vendor PR, articles  suchK > > as August 27th's on the supposed Superdome 'records' are disappointing. K > > While Terry may get paid or otherwise derive compensation for producing  > such7 > > trash, I hope you don't get paid for publishing it.  > > B > > First of all, the TPC-C 'record' is of course rather carefully engineered: J > > the top of the non-clustered TPC-C result column remains occupied by aL > > 128-processor Fujitsu PRIMEPOWER machine running (gasp!) SPARCs - but itH > > happens to be running a SymfoWARE database rather than Oracle, hence fails ' > > to meet Terry's arbitrary criteria.  > > J > > Now, one could bluster about having to use twice as many processors toI > > achieve only a modest performance edge, except that this is precisely  the I > > same strategy that Superdome (with 64 processors) used to squeak past  the K > > IBM Regatta (with 32 processors) very close on its heels in third place  onC > > the list.  And while Terry was careful to call out the marginal L > > per-processor performance edge that Superdome enjoys over SunFire in hisH > > TPC-H comparisons, he was conspicuously silent about this nearly 2:1C > > per-processor performance edge that the IBM Regatta enjoys overt	 Superdomeq > in
 > > TPC-C. > >lK > > He also neglected to mention how the SunFire compares with Superdome onm a D > > TPC-H cost/performance basis (the SunFire is slightly superior -
 > surprise!),/D > > though he was careful to point out the marginal cost/performance	 advantage , > > Superdome has over the Regatta in TPC-C. > >fJ > > Terry's resemblance to a Carly&Curly sock-puppet is hardly confined to the E > > above article.  On the same day, after a title and single leadingg > paragraph L > > gratuitously deriding Sun and anyone else who might dare to question theH > > wisdom of the cHumPaq merger, he then quotes HP's Q3 financial press	 > releaseaB > > VERBATIM (with an occasional word and, four times, a brief andJ > > largely-uninformative sentence of his own thrown in, and elsewhere theI > > occasional press release sentence or paragraph left unquoted) FOR THEsK > > REMAINING 14 PARAGRAPHS OF HIS 'ARTICLE'.  If this is what you consider2L > > journalism, I'm afraid your future in the field may be limited - and theH > > inclusion of a copyright symbol following such blatant plagiarism is > > out-right farce. > >rF > > The press release that Terry quoted without attribution appears atF > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2002/q3.htm.L > > Interesting aspects that he neglected to point out include the fact that > HPJ > > lost over $2 billion in the quarter but chose to characterize somewhat > moreK > > than that amount as an unaudited pro-forma adjustment to make it appear  > thatJ > > they would have made money had it not been for the costs of the merger andlJ > > restructuring (though they seem happy to include as revenue and profit anylL > > benefits of the merger and restructuring, such as they may be), and that > thenJ > > only profitable segments for the quarter (at least if one ignores that $2+iA > > billion in additional expenses that HP would like us to) weredJ > > Imaging/Printing ($813 million) and Services ($275 million), while theG > > Personal Systems Group lost $198 million and the Enterprise Systemsp Group  > > lost $422 million. > > H > > Not one to miss an opportunity to tout his patron, Terry included an overthC > > (and wholly irrelevant) plug for HP's (supposed) 'cryptographic-
 expertise'D > > at the end of his "Paranoia or Pragmatism?" article just one day earlier.J > > Since he has done this sort of thing for years in his own 'newsletter'G > > (another rather dubious example of the art of journalism) one can'tTK > > characterize it as new behavior on his part, but at least in my limitedn2 > > experience it is somewhat new to The Inquirer. > > G > > Oh, dear.  After all the above my suspicions were aroused about thesJ > > Superdome article as well, and - lo and behold! - it too seems to have > beenH > > lifted (only slightly less verbatim than the financial article) from this > HPI > > press release:  http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/26aug02b.htm.  AtC > > least he had the decency to leave the copyright symbol off that 
 'article'. > >0G > > So, Mike:  When I first pointed out, in far less detail and without  havingF > > yet noticed the blatant plagiarism, the close relationship between Terry'sgH > > Inquirer articles and HP PR, you effectively replied "Well, you know > Terry,L > > but I'll copy him on this."  That may have been a marginally appropriateL > > (though I'd still say rather blinkered) response given the brevity of myH > > initial comment, but I suggest that it's far from adequate given the! > > additional information above.n > > K > > So I hope that you'll publish this rebuttal to help even things up, andm be > a 4 > > bit more careful what you publish in the future. > >m >iH > You will be pleased to note that Mister Magee did in fact publish this wellL > thought out and articulate rebuttal to the ravings of a patriotic AmericanI > who has served his country, fought in a war, is an NRA life member, andn will5 > long remember September 11. And Veteran's Day, too.t >c4 > Thanks for adding a bit of humour to Magee's site. >iI > As for "blatant plagiarism," be advised that my son will be admitted tos the G > bar in November. I can't help but notice that most trade press organs0L > leverage press releases, so I guess they're guilty of the same mortal sin, > eh?l >eH > Hint: I would strongly urge a prudent individual to carefully read theL > statutes and findings on libel and slander. But in this case, just keep it0 > up. And ratchet it up a few more notches, too. >hH > Thank you, and have an absolutely ginger-peachy day today, and an even > better one tomorrow! >o >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:27:03 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> N Subject: Re: From the Peanut Gallery: (was Re: HP-Compaq Merger Went Smoothly)= Message-ID: <bf5c9.66913$kp.721815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>R  * "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message* news:Ju4c9.139$hf3.1535@typhoon.bart.nl...J > I was sorry to read that text. Mr Shannon within 2 minutes you modified, byK > your own words and typing skill, yourourself from an independent, skilledtK > writer about VMS into something that I've difficulties with describing inu ad > foreign language.y  I Understood. My Dutch is absolutelty atrocious. But you seem to be able to 0 express yourself quite well in American English. lhE > Your credibility is lost to me, not for your skills but the kind ofa repsonse > you wrote.- > I don't mind missing you in this newsgroup.c ><  I Likewise. I have a pair of hip boots, but the BS has gotten too deep evenmK for those. The technical value of this group has diminished dramatically in0J the past year, which is sad. The group is now laden with trolls.. I refuseG to put up with claims of plagariasm and worse from folks who are not HP 2 customers and have no vested interest in VMS, etc.  2 Fortunately there are alternative sources of news.   Have a good one!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:04:04 GMTu1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial>a7 Subject: Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4a0 Message-ID: <3D6EA318.32B939FA@yahoo.commercial>   Francisco Ortega wrote:p > L >    I have a question. This alpha seems to have an scsi-2 drive (2 or 4gb),H > and simms memory 72 pinns. I just want to be sure so I can upgrade theN > disks. What scsi drives can this alpha run and what type of cables it's needL > it (how many pins). and how much the max memory that i can put with simms,K > been that it has 8 slots. If I take the 64 out, and put all new syms, how1N > much can I put (max)? . And what is the biggest hard drive that I can put. I" > think I could put up two inside. >  > Thanks >  > Franciscoa  ? The onboard SCSI chain in the AlphaStation 255 is 50-pin SCSI-2 E (10Mbyte/s). I have an AS255 with two internal 4GB drives I bought onu< eBay. They are Seagate ST34501N (noisy bugger) and ST34371N.F Technically, you should be able to install any size drive, but I thinkB the largest 50-pin drive is 9GB regardless of manufacturer. 4GB isH common on eBay and other sites. You also need to consider heat. The spotC under the CDROM does not get much circulation and 7200RPM or faster-D drives get hot. Just to be safe, I installed all my harddrives in anH external enclosure connected through the external 50-pin connector (part of same chain).g  F For memory, you can officially get up to 1GB memory (8x128MB). I thinkC someone on the NetBSD/Alpha mailing list said they were able to runoH 256MB SIMMs. The memory is 72-pin TRUE PARITY SIMMs and you need to haveF at least four of them. The original spec called for 70ns 72-pin 33-bitD SIMMs. My AS255 has four 32MB 60ns 36-bit SIMMs which I ordered fromF http://www.memory4less.com . There are still many suppliers out there,F and prices fluctuate (still in production?). Check Pricewatch and make SURE they are TRUE parity.  E Now here's the kicker. WindowsNT, Tru64/DUNIX, *BSD, and Linux shouldaB all do fine with generic hardware like my configuration (currentlyH running NetBSD/Alpha). I do not know whether or not OpenVMS would acceptE the generic drives and 36-bit memory. Even if you were able to find ahH drive which was the exact same model as the DEC branded ones, I am underH the impression DEC branded drives have firmware modifications for OVMS.    I could be wrong.p  A The AS255 SRM (ARC too??) will only boot from the onboard SCSI or C specific SCSI controllers. If you needed more/faster/larger/cheaper @ drives without going through the trouble of finding original DECF hardware, you could leave a small SCSI drive on the onboard chain as aH boot device, then add an additional IDE/SCSI controller supported by theE OS. I have done this with a generic ATA66 controller and 20GB SeagateRG drive under NetBSD/Alpha. I do not know if OVMS or Tru64/DUNIX would go  for such an arrangement.  
 Good luck!   -- i Ed Wensell III  ; E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:08:41 GMTf1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial>o7 Subject: Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4 0 Message-ID: <3D6EA42D.A276B1F4@yahoo.commercial>   Francisco Ortega wrote:y >cL >    I have a question. This alpha seems to have an scsi-2 drive (2 or 4gb),H > and simms memory 72 pinns. I just want to be sure so I can upgrade theN > disks. What scsi drives can this alpha run and what type of cables it's needL > it (how many pins). and how much the max memory that i can put with simms,K > been that it has 8 slots. If I take the 64 out, and put all new syms, howaN > much can I put (max)? . And what is the biggest hard drive that I can put. I" > think I could put up two inside. >o > Thanks >i > Franciscot   PPS - This might come in handy:-F http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/a255series.html   -- h Ed Wensell III  ; E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 07:10:54 -0700a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i7 Subject: RE: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4n9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEGBFKAA.tom@kednos.com>n   >-----Original Message----- 9 >From: Ed Wensell III [mailto:ewensell3@yahoo.commercial]s( >Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:04 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4 >f >r >Francisco Ortega wrote: >>A >>    I have a question. This alpha seems to have an scsi-2 driver >(2 or 4gb),I >> and simms memory 72 pinns. I just want to be sure so I can upgrade the!> >> disks. What scsi drives can this alpha run and what type of >cables it's need@A >> it (how many pins). and how much the max memory that i can putM >with simms,L >> been that it has 8 slots. If I take the 64 out, and put all new syms, howB >> much can I put (max)? . And what is the biggest hard drive that
 >I can put. I # >> think I could put up two inside.i >>	 >> Thanksi >> >> Francisco > @ >The onboard SCSI chain in the AlphaStation 255 is 50-pin SCSI-2F >(10Mbyte/s). I have an AS255 with two internal 4GB drives I bought on= >eBay. They are Seagate ST34501N (noisy bugger) and ST34371N.vG >Technically, you should be able to install any size drive, but I thinkeC >the largest 50-pin drive is 9GB regardless of manufacturer. 4GB isoI >common on eBay and other sites. You also need to consider heat. The spotwD >under the CDROM does not get much circulation and 7200RPM or fasterE >drives get hot. Just to be safe, I installed all my harddrives in aniI >external enclosure connected through the external 50-pin connector (part1 >of same chain).  1 You can also use the wide 68 pin with an adapter.e   >6G >For memory, you can officially get up to 1GB memory (8x128MB). I thinkgD >someone on the NetBSD/Alpha mailing list said they were able to runI >256MB SIMMs. The memory is 72-pin TRUE PARITY SIMMs and you need to have G >at least four of them. The original spec called for 70ns 72-pin 33-bit E >SIMMs. My AS255 has four 32MB 60ns 36-bit SIMMs which I ordered fromnG >http://www.memory4less.com . There are still many suppliers out there,cG >and prices fluctuate (still in production?). Check Pricewatch and makeb >SURE they are TRUE parity.E >iF >Now here's the kicker. WindowsNT, Tru64/DUNIX, *BSD, and Linux shouldC >all do fine with generic hardware like my configuration (currently.I >running NetBSD/Alpha). I do not know whether or not OpenVMS would accepttF >the generic drives and 36-bit memory. Even if you were able to find aI >drive which was the exact same model as the DEC branded ones, I am underdH >the impression DEC branded drives have firmware modifications for OVMS. >  >I could be wrong. >tB >The AS255 SRM (ARC too??) will only boot from the onboard SCSI orD >specific SCSI controllers. If you needed more/faster/larger/cheaperA >drives without going through the trouble of finding original DECDG >hardware, you could leave a small SCSI drive on the onboard chain as atI >boot device, then add an additional IDE/SCSI controller supported by theoF >OS. I have done this with a generic ATA66 controller and 20GB SeagateH >drive under NetBSD/Alpha. I do not know if OVMS or Tru64/DUNIX would go >for such an arrangement.# >  >Good luck!  >o >--b >Ed Wensell IIIa >F< >E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop. >3 >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.m; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).-@ >Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 >. ---n& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:59:13 -0400e, From: "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc>7 Subject: Re: Hardware Question . Alphastation 255 266/4.@ Message-ID: <LC5c9.10005$FJ1.601955@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>  I Thanks a lot for the info. Someone at the digital team (hp/compaq) toldmenB that I could go with a 36 GB If I put a new scsi board. Now, In myE expirience, even Digital didn't support non support drives, it alwayseK worked. About booting from the external it may be possible but I'm not sureCK and I don't think I can use EIDE with OPENVMS. The memory tip is great, wow1K 1GB , that's like heaven for me, WOW. What kind of enclosures are you usinguK ? where did you bougth them? I think it will much better to have the drivesSI outside. IT's defenitly worth it.  What kind of scsi board could I add toi this. Thanks a lot .    > "Ed Wensell III" <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> wrote in message* news:3D6EA318.32B939FA@yahoo.commercial... > Francisco Ortega wrote:  > >tH > >    I have a question. This alpha seems to have an scsi-2 drive (2 or 4gb),rJ > > and simms memory 72 pinns. I just want to be sure so I can upgrade theK > > disks. What scsi drives can this alpha run and what type of cables it'si needG > > it (how many pins). and how much the max memory that i can put with  simms,I > > been that it has 8 slots. If I take the 64 out, and put all new syms,  how I > > much can I put (max)? . And what is the biggest hard drive that I canr put. I$ > > think I could put up two inside. > > 
 > > Thanks > >f
 > > Francisco  >cA > The onboard SCSI chain in the AlphaStation 255 is 50-pin SCSI-2eG > (10Mbyte/s). I have an AS255 with two internal 4GB drives I bought ono> > eBay. They are Seagate ST34501N (noisy bugger) and ST34371N.H > Technically, you should be able to install any size drive, but I thinkD > the largest 50-pin drive is 9GB regardless of manufacturer. 4GB isJ > common on eBay and other sites. You also need to consider heat. The spotE > under the CDROM does not get much circulation and 7200RPM or fasteraF > drives get hot. Just to be safe, I installed all my harddrives in anJ > external enclosure connected through the external 50-pin connector (part > of same chain).i > H > For memory, you can officially get up to 1GB memory (8x128MB). I thinkE > someone on the NetBSD/Alpha mailing list said they were able to runoJ > 256MB SIMMs. The memory is 72-pin TRUE PARITY SIMMs and you need to haveH > at least four of them. The original spec called for 70ns 72-pin 33-bitF > SIMMs. My AS255 has four 32MB 60ns 36-bit SIMMs which I ordered fromH > http://www.memory4less.com . There are still many suppliers out there,H > and prices fluctuate (still in production?). Check Pricewatch and make > SURE they are TRUE parity. >eG > Now here's the kicker. WindowsNT, Tru64/DUNIX, *BSD, and Linux shouldrD > all do fine with generic hardware like my configuration (currentlyJ > running NetBSD/Alpha). I do not know whether or not OpenVMS would acceptG > the generic drives and 36-bit memory. Even if you were able to find aeJ > drive which was the exact same model as the DEC branded ones, I am underI > the impression DEC branded drives have firmware modifications for OVMS.  >e > I could be wrong.a >lC > The AS255 SRM (ARC too??) will only boot from the onboard SCSI or E > specific SCSI controllers. If you needed more/faster/larger/cheaper B > drives without going through the trouble of finding original DECH > hardware, you could leave a small SCSI drive on the onboard chain as aJ > boot device, then add an additional IDE/SCSI controller supported by theG > OS. I have done this with a generic ATA66 controller and 20GB SeagateqI > drive under NetBSD/Alpha. I do not know if OVMS or Tru64/DUNIX would go/ > for such an arrangement. >. > Good luck! >  > -- > Ed Wensell III >o= > E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:18:34 +0200m" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>! Subject: Re: Help installing Pine 6 Message-ID: <akqc73$1kgkh0$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  H Why don't you read the vmsbuild.com file? If that procedure compiles andJ links something then the target directory must be known, at least the name of the .EXE file.)* Check for logical names  ( sho log *PINE*)9 "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> schreef in bericht < news:v7Qb9.108090$%v4.5604301@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com... > Hi, J >      I'm trying to install pine but with no luck. I download it from theJ > freeware site at montagar.com and then I transfer the file into my alphaK > 255. I'm currently running OpenVms 7.2. After uncompressing it, I realizes ItH > need it C (CC) so I installed it on the alpha. Well, the thing is that aftereI > reading the aaareadme.txt I have not been able to figure it out. I havesJ > create it a production folder but everytime that I run vmsbuild from theI > root of the folder or from [.pine] or [.pico], it does not generate anytI > *pine*.exe files, furthermore, in the PINE folder, I don't even see anys exe,I > file . I see that compiles fine but I can't find them. I look in all myi DKA0E > . Can someone please tell me an easy way to install PINE. Thank youu >h >  >  >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:18:03 -0400 , From: "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc>! Subject: Re: Help installing Pine @ Message-ID: <pU5c9.10080$FJ1.607249@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>  J Well, I did that, I realize that is not compiling well, some gets compiledK but at the end , I'm getting this compiling errors. Can you or someone elsee help. thanks  ) VMSBUILD-I-LIBRARY, Creating PICO library < %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module OS_VMS file DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCP( O.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]OS_VMS.OBJ;1: %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module PICO file DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.r$ PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]PICO.OBJ;19 %VMSBUILD-I-LINK, Linking stand-alone PICO editor utilityo$ %LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warnings         in module PICO filei4 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]PICO. OLB;1u$ %LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warnings         in module OS_VMS fileo2 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.PICO]PIC O.OLB;1i3 %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$UNLINK multiply defineduA         in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1nL %VMSBUILD-I-CCLIENT, Building C-client library with DEC C and NO TCP support $NL CC/PREFIX=(ALL,EXCEPT=(SOCKET,CONNECT,BIND,LISTEN,SOCKET_READ,SOCKET_WRITE,S OCL KET_CLOSE,SELECT,ACCEPT,BCMP,BCOPY,BZERO,GETHOSTBYNAME,GETHOSTBYADDR,GETPEER NAMEL ,GETDTABLESIZE,HTONS,HTONL,NTOHS,NTOHL,SEND,SENDTO,RECV,RECVFROM))/STANDARD= VAXCL /DEFINE=(_DECC_V4_SOURCE,_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED,VMSIO)/WARNING=DISABLE=TOOFE WACT UALS/NOOPTIMIZE OS_VMS  C     u_char          sin6_len;           /* length of this struct */n ....^i< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 376 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.h TLB;2.  6     u_char          sin6_family;        /* AF_INET6 */ ....^,< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 377 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.< TLB;2a  A     u_short rhdr_offset;         /* data offset in IPv6 packet */o ....^r< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 458 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.h TLB;2@  8     u_char  rhdr_proto;          /* The protocol type */ ....^h< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 459 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.h TLB;2   H     u_char  rhdr_authOK;         /* TRUE if the pkt was authenticated */ ....^i< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.0 at line number 460 in module IN6 of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.  TLB;2r  $     typedef u_char * __u_char_ptr32; ...................^ %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".2 at line number 57 in module RESOLV of text library SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEe F.TLB;2   G         u_long  options;                /* option flags - see below. */h	 ........^,< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.3 at line number 105 in module RESOLV of text libraryl SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  @         u_short id;                     /* current message id */	 ........^n< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.3 at line number 110 in module RESOLV of text libraryl SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  I         u_long  pfcode;                 /* RES_PRF_ flags - see below. */2	 ........^o< %CC-E-MISSINGTYPE, Missing type specifier or type qualifier.3 at line number 113 in module RESOLV of text libraryr SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  H __u_char_ptr32  p_cdnname (const u_char *, const u_char *, int, FILE *); ................^  %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".3 at line number 289 in module RESOLV of text libraryi SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  ) __char_ptr32    p_option (u_long option);e ..........................^tK %CC-E-BADPARSEPARAM, In this parameter list, "u_long" must either be a typel or m ust be followed by a ",".s3 at line number 294 in module RESOLV of text libraryl SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  $ u_int           res_randomid (void); ................^t %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".3 at line number 302 in module RESOLV of text libraryy SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  G ns_updrec *     res_mkupdrec (int, const char *, u_int, u_int, u_long);r2 .................................................^2 %CC-E-PARMTYPLIST, Ill-formed parameter type list.3 at line number 319 in module RESOLV of text libraryv SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  ;          {strncpy(buffer, s, size-1); buffer[size-1]='\0';}t
 .........^ %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";". at line number 210 in file5 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.IMAP.ANSI.Ci -CLIENT]TCP_VMS.C;2t          elsen .......^! %CC-E-BADSTMT, Invalid statement.M at line number 211 in file5 DKA0:[DATA.FRANCISCO.PINE.PINE-3-91-BETA8.IMAP.ANSI.Ce -CLIENT]TCP_VMS.C;2c  & __char_ptr32    p_secstodate (u_long); ................^0L %CC-W-FUNCIDLIS, In the declaration of "p_secstodate", a function declarator hasmI  an identifier list but is not part of a function definition.  Extraneousk parame ter names are ignored.3 at line number 295 in module RESOLV of text library  SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLD EF.TLB;2  	 THANK YOUh  - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messagey0 news:akqc73$1kgkh0$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...J > Why don't you read the vmsbuild.com file? If that procedure compiles andL > links something then the target directory must be known, at least the name > of the .EXE file. , > Check for logical names  ( sho log *PINE*); > "Francisco Ortega" <fortega@iblues.cc> schreef in bericht > > news:v7Qb9.108090$%v4.5604301@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com... > > Hi,oL > >      I'm trying to install pine but with no luck. I download it from theL > > freeware site at montagar.com and then I transfer the file into my alphaE > > 255. I'm currently running OpenVms 7.2. After uncompressing it, I/ realizer > I J > > need it C (CC) so I installed it on the alpha. Well, the thing is that > aftertK > > reading the aaareadme.txt I have not been able to figure it out. I have L > > create it a production folder but everytime that I run vmsbuild from theK > > root of the folder or from [.pine] or [.pico], it does not generate any-K > > *pine*.exe files, furthermore, in the PINE folder, I don't even see any@ > exeoK > > file . I see that compiles fine but I can't find them. I look in all my- > DKA0G > > . Can someone please tell me an easy way to install PINE. Thank youh > >  > >i > >h > >p >s   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 09:49:26 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t- Subject: Re: HP and Dell dump Microsoft Worksn) Message-ID: <HBzznqYh7sBA@elias.decus.ch>o  Z In article <hhrmka.jeg.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>, Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> writes: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>  5 >> "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messageh5 >> news:mqrrmuk2bl6oau6l3crak8d3fulkangs9p@4ax.com...  >>>l- >>>  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5161i >>> $ >>> HP and Dell dump Microsoft Works >> w> >> For those who suspect that the lack of Microsoft-sanctionedM >> Office-compatible software on Linux is perhaps the main remaining obstacle D >> to widespread use of it as an alternate desktop platform, this isK >> significant news.  If Microsoft's new licensing policies have turned offsL >> even HP and Dell to this extent, the rumblings of discontent may actuallyA >> go somewhere - as this may be exactly the kind of proof that a M >> generally-acceptable alternative *does* exist that those on the fence have 
 >> needed. >> . >> Or not.  But one can hope.e >> t	 >> - bills > K > Or, maybe it's just a Microsoft ploy in cahoots with HP and Dell to show T4 > the DOJ that MS isn't really a monopoly after all? >    An excellent point. From0 http://news.com.com/2100-1001-246486.html?tag=rn  > we see that in October 2000 M$ invested $135 million in Corel.  G "One motive for the investment could lay in keeping Corel alive so that D Microsoft can claim it faces compeition during its ongoing antitrustK litigation, speculated Rob Enderle, an analyst with Giga Information Group.t  M In 1997, Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple. At the time, Microsoft wasaJ facing preliminary investigations into its business practices. Like Corel,C Apple was Microsoft's competitor, but a stuggling one, at the time.   J "They didn't want Apple to go away as a major competitor and they probablyN don't want Corel to go away right away, especially when things are on appeal,"O Enderle said. The deal may also give Microsoft access to in-house technology ate( Corel, including some Linux technology."  H Now, wasn't it just yesterday I mentioned that approximately 2 years agoG I found I could no longer get the WordPerfect suite for Linux any more?d   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:16:10 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)> Subject: Re: just released OMI v2.2 - the DCL Menu applicationJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-3108020916100001@1cust90.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  D In article <20020829144629.5d576847.oscar@oveas.com>, Oscar van Eijk <oscar@oveas.com> wrote:   >Hi All, >hI >It's been a while since this group heard from me, but I finally released2G a new version of OMI, the menu interpreter that makes building menus as  easy as using them!s  J >OMI is well documented with a 98 pages document in A4 format or 108 pages in letter format.S > - >Have a look at http://freeware.oveas.com/omik  >Suggestions are always welcome!  K Thanks for posting the URL.  I will try OMI when I have a few spare cycles.r  E I had some trouble with the web page.  My preferred browser sometimesdJ disklikes frames; maybe that was the cause.  But I always feed troublesome pages to an html validator:a    http://validator.w3.org/d  I Your page is unusually good in that the validator attempts to validate itc4 instead of giving up.  Still it reports some errors.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:51:06 -0400c2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)" Subject: Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXXJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-3108020951060001@1cust90.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  3 In article <3D7010FE.6CCC564D@lmco.nospam.com>, JMKa+ <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.nospam.com> wrote:     B >The .../cplus_index.html page comes up, but the sites of interest@ >referenced on that page don't come up -- they're blank.  One inF >particular that looked very promising -- the .../ugv.html was blank. D >I'm being real, I'm reloading the page, and they are not coming up.   The URL C   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/cplus/alpha_doc/ugv.htmlnJ brings up a normal VMS-style HTML documentation page, similar to the styleH that was used for the VMS doc set a version or two ago.  The document is titled   "Compaq C++G  " Using Compaq C++ for OpenVMS Alpha   Order Number: AA-RPM8B-TE"  C Can your browser handle the HTML files in the regular VMS doc set? -G Perhaps a scrozzled copy of the C++ doc is cached somewhere between you< and the original source.  ' I fed the page to the validator at URL:     http://validator.w3.org/0I which found many errors, even after I manually set what appears to be themJ right doc type.  This is not unusual for the VMS web pages.  Nevertheless,) my browser has no trouble with the pages.i  F >This kind of trouble is what I have consistently experienced over the5 >past few months with regards to CXX documentation.  I >n* >As before, I'm hoping for an improvement.  . Maybe this page will help (if it isn't blank):F     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/cplus/cplus_feedback.html     -- Robert    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 12:35:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a" Subject: Re: Lint tool for HPQ CXX3 Message-ID: <iS0o5jK68HsK@eisner.encompasserve.org>l   In article <rdeininger-3108020951060001@1cust90.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:p  0 > Maybe this page will help (if it isn't blank):H >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/cplus/cplus_feedback.html   It is blank for me.e  E If it were not, I would complain about the inferiority of the VMS C++yG documentation (and help files) compared to that for VMS C.  I find thatnD I have to go to a machine with VMS C installed to get an answer from; HELP for using VMS C++.  The documentation is the same way.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:45:02 +0200h- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>CB Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements' Message-ID: <3D7073FF.26BF7F9A@Free.fr>e   Phillip Helbig wrote:h > E > I'm thinking of finally jumping from Netscape 3.03 Gold to the mostoF > modern version of a graphical web browser for VMS which is, however,, > also more or less usable/stable/practical. > ? > What do folks recommend? The latest official HP product, some & > open-source mozilla things, or what?  X Get the latest version from Mozilla.org until the latest version of CSWB/HP is released.  L > What are MINIMUM system requirements (CPU speed, memory---I'm sure I have 6 > enough disk space)? Will any old graphic card be OK?  ! No particular requirements found.r Use the INSTALL feature.  G > I normally use LYNX and need a graphical browser for those rare cases @ > where a site is worth viewing which doesn't work well in LYNX.C > What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?3   No idea.   D. --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19283 *** NEW *** On-site OpenVMS/Fortran/Cobol training .2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 10:41:53 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)hB Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements) Message-ID: <3xAuSuHd4wZD@elias.decus.ch>v  w In article <01KLWZJ4X4K49QUS7H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iF > I'm thinking of finally jumping from Netscape 3.03 Gold to the most F > modern version of a graphical web browser for VMS which is, however,, > also more or less usable/stable/practical. > A > What do folks recommend?  The latest official HP product, some  @ > open-source mozilla thingy, or what?  What are MINIMUM system I > requirements (CPU speed, memory---I'm sure I have enough disk space)?   " > Will any old graphic card be OK? >e  > Mozilla is fine at work. But then we run it on a couple of 4GBH 4100s, with the images installed, rather than on our 128MB workstations. :-)    H > I normally use LYNX and need a graphical browser for those rare cases @ > where a site is worth viewing which doesn't work well in LYNX. > C > What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?i >  I disable both.H __
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:10:09 +0200s From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements4 Message-ID: <kp1c9.26330$C26.2488368@zwoll1.home.nl>   Phillip Helbig wrote:*F > I'm thinking of finally jumping from Netscape 3.03 Gold to the most F > modern version of a graphical web browser for VMS which is, however,, > also more or less usable/stable/practical. > A > What do folks recommend?  The latest official HP product, some s@ > open-source mozilla thingy, or what?  What are MINIMUM system I > requirements (CPU speed, memory---I'm sure I have enough disk space)?   " > Will any old graphic card be OK? > H > I normally use LYNX and need a graphical browser for those rare cases @ > where a site is worth viewing which doesn't work well in LYNX. > C > What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?  > P Mozilla for VMS and CSWB are both made by Compaq. The latest version of Mozilla M (1.1B) is quite stable, but not entirely bug free. However most (if not all) lP bugs are not VMS specific ! It has some nice features not present in CSWB (yet).  O If you install Java, and run the Java Setup (it will set some logicals) before 0Q you start Mozilla, you can use Java as well. You can also use the XPDF viewer to     view pdf files.e  P Mozilla loves memory, much of it comes from DECwindows. The maximum working set 7 for DECwindows is normally directly derived from WSmax.   J Since it is a 'normal' DECwindows application, it will run if your system P supports DECwindows. Of course the more memory you have, the faster the cpu is, ) the faster the graphics are .............0   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:31:53 +0200D@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements+ Message-ID: <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>S   Paul Sture wrote:s  C >>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?A > I disable both.u  6 Then there are quite a few things on the web that will not work properly !A  8 And is it necesarry ? (I do not remember that many holes, in the applet sandbox since Java 2 came out)   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 18:57:04 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)tB Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements) Message-ID: <9YkkJsA4djHd@elias.decus.ch>C  n In article <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: > Paul Sture wrote:O > D >>>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context? >> I disable both. > 8 > Then there are quite a few things on the web that will > not work properly !  > : > And is it necesarry ? (I do not remember that many holes. > in the applet sandbox since Java 2 came out) >   > Well, at work they filter what they consider nasty bits about % Javascript, so some sites don't work.6  / I have had rogue sites trying to "do something"N? with my systems - for example whacking up new X-windows screens3@ or just simply using a lot of cpu. Java may be fine, but I don't; trust Javascript. I simply don't want someone else choosingn# what my system is going to do next.N __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 12:31:40 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements3 Message-ID: <0$9hvMHYq2q1@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  n In article <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: > Paul Sture wrote:E > D >>>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context? >> I disable both. > 8 > Then there are quite a few things on the web that will > not work properly !T  C Such as most web-borne malware.   Java and JavaScript give too much., control over my computer to unknown persons.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 17:31:35 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements5 Message-ID: <20020831173135.2661.qmail@nym.alias.net>1  8 On 31 Aug 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:K >In article <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=e$ ><arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: >> Paul Sture wrote: >> tE >>>>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?Y >>> I disable both.$ >>  9 >> Then there are quite a few things on the web that willP >> not work properly ! >> .; >> And is it necesarry ? (I do not remember that many holesu/ >> in the applet sandbox since Java 2 came out)t >> i >r? >Well, at work they filter what they consider nasty bits about d& >Javascript, so some sites don't work. > 0 >I have had rogue sites trying to "do something"@ >with my systems - for example whacking up new X-windows screensA >or just simply using a lot of cpu. Java may be fine, but I don'to< >trust Javascript. I simply don't want someone else choosing$ >what my system is going to do next.  . For those who don't believe Paul, try visitingJ http://www.pheer.de/exploits.html (Windows users: First save all your workK and be prepared to reboot). This link is sometimes given to the idiots that.8 turn up in alt.hacker and ask how to break into Hotmail.     Doc. -- t6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:48:53 +0200e@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements+ Message-ID: <3D710185.2030200@mail.tele.dk>t   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  p > In article <3D70D359.6060201@mail.tele.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> writes: >>Paul Sture wrote: E >>>>What do I need to know about Java and Javascript in this context?e >>>> >>>I disable both. >>>E8 >>Then there are quite a few things on the web that will >>not work properly !_ > E > Such as most web-borne malware.   Java and JavaScript give too mucho. > control over my computer to unknown persons.    6 Is this fact today - or is it just leftover reputation from 6 years ago ?  8 Most browser security holes I read about today has to do3 with ActiveX - and that should not be a problem forH Mozilla/CSWB on VMS !"   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:56:49 +0200.@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>B Subject: Re: netscape/modzilla/HP/open-source: system requirements+ Message-ID: <3D710361.9010709@mail.tele.dk>    Doc.Cypher wrote:e  0 > For those who don't believe Paul, try visitingL > http://www.pheer.de/exploits.html (Windows users: First save all your workM > and be prepared to reboot). This link is sometimes given to the idiots thatk: > turn up in alt.hacker and ask how to break into Hotmail.  3 1) At least with NetScape you can just use the taskm     manager to kill NetScape.   6 2) It can be severely annoying with JavaScript opening4     windows, but there are not really done any harm.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:21:46 GMT * From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing= Message-ID: <KU%b9.29678$WJ3.5613618@news1.news.adelphia.net>i  / It will likely come out of Europe, possibly UK.t   --  
 Sincerely,	 Mark Budad    B "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote in messageI news:2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C7237@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl...aI I'm living in the netherlands and I'm wondering if order a PAK if it will-	 come from- the USA or Canada.   -----Original Message------ From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]c$ Sent: maandag 19 augustus 2002 15:34 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB" Subject: Re: NewHp & VMS Licensing    8 It would be sufficient to install a "PAK-printer", not ?- And having someone putting it in an envelope.>  A So, the person ordering the PAK at his/her terminal/PC could just2< as well be sitting in the US, but the PAK gets counted as an9 "export" from the EU just becouse it was *printed* there.M   Well, well :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.s     Larry Kilgallen wrote: >- >cE > Seriously, it might have to do with tariffs and some European UnioniK > regulation about exporting things from Europe rather than just importing.tI > The nice thing about a PAK factory is minimal investment is required inr > heavy equipment.   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 2002 13:20:15 GMT) From: rankin@pactechdata.com (Pat Rankin)e& Subject: Re: Old games for VAX system./ Message-ID: <31AUG200206201533@pactechdata.com>e  , In article <akjive0s16@enews2.newsguy.com>,\7  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes...sM > I've been trying lately to get some games up and running on my Alpha, [...]' >eI > Here is what I'm running on my system (I'm looking for others that will. > work over a serial terminal).  [...]e >  NetHack 3.3.1 - Nativev  C      NetHack 3.4.0 was released last spring.  Its VMS port is stillyD actively supported; building it from source code is required though.B The known bugs page at www.nethack.org has a long list of bugs all? categorized as "fixed", so a 3.4.1 release is bound to come outi sooner or later.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@pactechdata.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:01:01 +0530i5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>  Subject: Physical disksl/ Message-ID: <un0ro7b1sd58fa@corp.supernews.com>b   Hi All,a   I have a simple question.y  H Is it possible to mount a device physically on two disks . Or we need to mount it as shadow sets.  G I am new to the concept of creating shadow sets, so an elaborate answer' would be much appreciated.   Thanks Sandeepe   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:09:58 -0400u0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Physical disks / Message-ID: <un15jmqsa1pa68@corp.supernews.com>d   Sandeep,  L Not sure what you mean when you say "mount a device physically".  If you areL referring to a physical disk drive then you mount that drive on a system, orH multiple systems (in a cluster) using the MOUNT command.  If you want toJ have two disks that have exactly the same data on it then you could shadowG them using the Mount command with the /SHADOW qualifier.  It would lookI something like this:  <  $ MOUNT DSAn /SHADOW=($1$DGA100,$1$DGA200)/CLUSTER/NOASSIST  J The trick in shadowing is to make sure that you copy the data in the right
 direction.  H By the way, if you are referring to being able to create different mount> points on one physical drive then that's not available in VMS.   Alan  @ "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message) news:un0ro7b1sd58fa@corp.supernews.com...b	 > Hi All,t >c > I have a simple question.b >oJ > Is it possible to mount a device physically on two disks . Or we need to > mount it as shadow sets. >aI > I am new to the concept of creating shadow sets, so an elaborate answero > would be much appreciated. >- > Thanks	 > Sandeepa >3 >u   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 31 Aug 02 11:00:32 GMTe From: jmfbahciv@aol.comlJ Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?, Message-ID: <akqbpr$gsc$12@bob.news.rcn.net>  @ In article <_cYb9.49707$On.2451541@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,.    "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: >t8 >"Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message8 >news:X_Wb9.57802$Xa.3094329@twister.southeast.rr.com... >o >....- >hH >> Try to do or say something positive and you become a lackey, is that  what >> you think JF? >hI >I can't answer for JF, but it's not what I think.  However, I *do* thinknD >that such efforts can be severely misguided if not *very* carefully
 >directed. >s- >> Do you hate HP more than you love OpenVMS?  >eI >The problem is that this is exactly the trade-off that Compaq created.    AndeG >I suspect it did so knowingly.  "Hey, the only VMS customers left are e thoseMJ >who either can't leave VMS or won't leave VMS.  So what if we kick 'em inD >the nuts:  what are they going to do about it?  Hell, they'll be soK >uncomfortable with the idea that their vendor is so sleazy that they might C >have to look elsewhere that they'll stitch their eyes shut before u	 admittingt? >it.  And the few that might admit it will just leave quietly."t <snip>  @ "It's deja vu all over again."  I was known as the den mother of? the TOPS-10 monitor group.  It just sounds like the legacy that 1 created Digital out of DEC goes on and on and on.a   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:33:43 GMTR1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>1J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?= Message-ID: <HI2c9.65403$kp.722053@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>n  A "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net> wrote in messages news:3d703638$1@nubby2.... >r> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message* > news:ujTb9.236506$me6.32409@sccrnsc01...
 > > Check outo > >sH > > www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather from > > non-customer trolls. > >o >tH > Well, although we have to put up with blather from trolls, whiners and/ > non-customers, it doesn't cost $395/year! :-)  >h  I No, it does not!  Do check out the site(s) in question. Ken Famer chargesd NOTHING!   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 17:02:39 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>J Subject: Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?6 Message-ID: <20020831170239.30296.qmail@nym.alias.net>  G On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:p  A Re: Sick of the trolls, whiners, and non-customers in this forum?   P I think that is a rather unfair assessment of most of the people posting herein.G I also looked in comp.sys.dec, and believe the crosspost was completely J unneccessary, as that newsgroup does not seem to contain the criticism you appear to be referring to.  L It really comes as no surprise to me that some people have the attitudes youL seem to be referring to. After all, when was the last time the owners of VMS' didn't treat it like an unwanted child?T  
 >Check out > J >www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather from >non-customer trolls.w  O That someone other than HP owns these domains is just, IMHO, another indicationc, that they don't care as much as they should.  4 Let's look at a few other domains they should own...  3 $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.networksolutions.com openvms.comc   <snip>   Registrant:T0 System Management Associates, Inc. (OPENVMS-DOM)   (Specifically Mark Levy.)*    - $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.alldomains.com openvms.net-   <snip>   Registrant:-(         Compaq Computer Corp (DOM-89185)3         20555 State Highway 249 Houston TX 77070 USt  N Okay, so they own this, and it ain't been updated to HP. However, when you tryJ to go to http://www.openvms.net you get nothing - except for the followingB console errors indicating somebody can't set up a DNS correctly...  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:43.50  %%%%%%%%%%%  Message from user SYSTEM on MUNGO named: Lame server on 'www.openvms.net' (in 'openvms.NET'?): [207.46.138.12].53s 'DNS5.CP.MSFT.net'  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:43.71  %%%%%%%%%%%  Message from user SYSTEM on MUNGO named: Lame server on 'www.openvms.net' (in 'openvms.NET'?): [207.46.138.11].53  'DNS4.CP.MSFT.net'  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  31-AUG-2002 16:43:47.09  %%%%%%%%%%%  Message from user SYSTEM on MUNG? named: ns_forw: query(WWW.OPENVMS.NET) All possible A RR's lameB  ? Lets move on to the name most people in here tend to use - VMS.a  & $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.opensrs.net vms.com Registrant:h  Desktop News Corporation   / $ WHOIS/HOST=whois.networksolutions.com vms.net'   <snip>   Registrant:  WIN SYSTEM (VMS4-DOM)w    1-33-6, KOMABAa    MEGURO-KU, TOKYO 153     JPi  L Honestly, if HP can't be bothered to own the domains for these, and at leastL point them to the appropriate point in their corporate site, it just doesn't
 look good.  L Take as an example the FAQ, Hoff should be able to point people to something/ like http://vms.com/FAQ and it should be there.      Doc. -- o6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neto   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 04:59:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c& Subject: TCPIP services: SLIP question, Message-ID: <3D70854F.DBCD2F03@videotron.ca>  L I have a local subnet of 10.0.0.* , mask 255.255.255.240 (eg: from 0 to 15).  / default routing/gateway is a router at 10.0.0.1s0 node "BIKE" is  10.0.0.10 and has the DNS server node "VELO" is  10.0.0.11w  4 my PSION PDA was set to 10.1.0.20  (its own subnet) D and similarly set interface SL1 on VELO to TXC0:   (Slip interface).   I SET PROT IP/FORWARD.  J I have followed instructions in the manuals but it fails. TCPTRACE on nodeK VELO reveals that a dns requests originating from the PSION does make it to L the dns server, and the responses from the DNS server (on bike) make it backD to VELO, displayed by TCPTRACE, but they don't make it to the PSION.  L Both BIKE and VELO have a TCPIP SET ROUTE 10.1.0.20/gateway=VELO (10.0.0.11)   I have basic questions:s  J Must the PSION be on a different subnet in order for VELO to route traffic+ between the ethernet and SLIP interfaces ? a  K Should the SL1 (slip) interface have the same IP address as that defined on  the PSION ?r  M Would the TCPIP software on VELO be able to forward/route packets betwene the.K ethernet and the slip line no matter what sort of routing is active (basic,09 gated, routed ?) Or shoudl a specific routing be needed ?.  I If, from BIKE I try to ping the PSION,  I get instant responses (probably 2 issued by velo) even if the PSION is disconnected.    G By the way, in TCPIP, HELP SET PROT  says that you should be able to doc 	SET PROT UDP/FORWARDo   However that command fails.f   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 08:37:50 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)s6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance) Message-ID: <F3eIwkplKbqS@elias.decus.ch>1  c In article <X7IB3dFbn2Tj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:pg > In article <akl6p3$1k2uct$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:1 >> .J >> While I am not knocking the disaster tolerance of OpenVMS, there was/isJ >> a much cheaper solution to the disaster tolerance problem as related toE >> 9/11.  It's simple.  Put your critical datacenters in very obscurefK >> locations and don't advertise where they are.  With communications beingaM >> what it is today, what exactly was the advantage of putting the datacenterc >> in the WTC building??   > > >    Availability of large numbers of talented support people. >   @ And conversely, a higher cost of living, so higher salaries etc.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandl   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 10:07:41 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a6 Subject: Re: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance) Message-ID: <vZbecDEGGqZS@elias.decus.ch>l  Y In article <aknk54$1c0s@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:r > c > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:3D6F443A.31EF287E@videotron.ca...r > F >> From a web perspective, I wonder if there would be any data privacyO >> implications. If you deal with a company on a real contry, that company must.K >> abide by that country's data privacy regulations. But if the web site isaN >> located on such an island, it might present interesting "very relaxed" dataP >> security rules allowing all sorts of interesting transations to take place to >> sell data to others.J > M > Perversely, if Sealand were a real country it would be possibly illegal for-H > personal data on EU citizens to be processed there. You're not allowed@ > to ship the data out of jurisdiction to sidestep privacy laws. >H  A I suggest you raise that question with your Member of Parliament:q  ; http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/story/0,7369,727095,00.htmla  1 "Indian firm used in bid to clear vetting backlogt   David Pallister- Tuesday June 4, 2002 The Guardian  K The Home Office has employed a data processing firm in Madras, India, in anaO emergency attempt to clear the backlog of 30,000 applications to the new agencyhK set up to vet the background of people working with children and vulnerable. adults."  tJ > Life's tough for small nations that don't have any bilateral agreements:( > anyone remember 'Passport to Pimlico"? > 4 An excellent film. Far too long since I last saw it. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2002 09:48:13 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>6 Subject: RE: The "Gold" Standard in Disaster Tolerance6 Message-ID: <20020831094813.13053.qmail@nym.alias.net>  J On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote:  F Whilst I don't want to get too drawn into this, your response probablyK didn't make it back to the poster you were responding to. That is because IsG suspect they read it in comp.unix.solaris. Unfortunately, as you accesstI comp.os.vms via the Info-VAX gateway, crossposts are dropped. If the uspsi; will let you, it is much better getting the group via nntp.h   > Cypherpunk@nyc.rr.com wrote: > ? >>If "Rochelle Park systems are primary as well as backup" thenm< >>they were not an example of "Disaster Tolerance" for 9/11. >jI >It appears that Mr.Freund of Illuminata disagrees with you in the paper   >referenced in this thread.k > 
 >Strongly. >eD >Your definition makes sense in an environment that doesn't *really*. >cluster, but for VMS it's just plain silly.   >e >from zee paper: >e3 >"But first, we must precisely define what Disasteri  >Tolerance is-and what it isn't. >b >Degrees of Survival >e2 >There are many terms used to describe the concept7 >of keeping a business operating despite the occurrence , >of a catastrophic event. The ones used most( >often, and sometimes misleadingly, are: >s >Business Continuity, A >the broad term that encompasses all of the plans, resources, andcA >actions used to ensure the continued operation of a business in h? >the event of a site-wide outage, whether planned or unplanned.- >- >Disaster Recovery, E >the ability, plan, or techniques used to return IT to an acceptable aC >level of operation after a site-wide outage. This may include the HE >use of servers, software, storage, networking, and staff duplicated tD >at a remote site. Though also a broad term, Disaster Recovery is a G >subset of Business Continuity. Disaster Tolerance is a subset of both.a >a >Disaster Tolerance,K >a specialized form of High Availability and Disaster Recovery. The abilitynJ >of an organization's IT facilities to rapidly continue after a site-wide L >outage by automatically transferring IT operations to duplicated resources I >at a remote site. A Disaster Tolerant system must be able to detect the tD >failure of a primary system, notify the humans in charge, and (when >authorized)G >proceed with a failover to redundant systems and sites without further: >manual intervention.  g >eH >DT systems should be able to make that change on their own, though many
 >companiesF >prefer to have a human make the final decision to declare a site-wide >outage. >e > . .n >kG >Before comparing the available Unix DT options, let's examine a highly1 >successful L >non-Unix model: the Disaster Tolerant OpenVMS Cluster. Still considered theG >"gold standard" in commercial clustering, it's not unusual for OpenVMSg >Cluster uptimes r >to be measured in years.a >mC >Using a built-in distributed lock manager and cluster file system, E >OpenVMS provides a "shared everything" cluster system. Applications lG >running on as many as 96 cooperating servers can write simultaneously  C >to the same files on shared disk volumes. Disk volumes are either  F >directly attached to all nodes or, alternatively, "served" by one or F >more systems to the rest of the cluster. Should one or more of these C >servers go down, the data remains safe and sound; the applicationsiB >can keep on running, or be launched onto, the remaining servers." >a >WWWebbr     Doc. -- m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:47:27 +0200a" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>) Subject: Re: The steps to setup a printers6 Message-ID: <akqdtk$1l6dpe$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  2 "Yong Liu" <fdu9774@rogers.com> schreef in berichtB news:VhSb9.41345$GK2.20128@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > Hi,s > I > I appreciate everyone's response about decnet-plus. Very helpful. Those H > logical steps make things easier. But HP/Compaq's documentation people never. > do it that way.3 >-2 > Can you summarize the steps to set up a printer. >. > Thanks  L Basically for an ASCII printer attached on a local (parallel or serial) port the steps are: 1 - start the queue managerh- 2 - initiate and start a queue for the devicee  J 1 The command $ show/queue/manager will tell you if the queue manager runsG or not. The queue manager handles device queues, like printers and card ; readers as well as batch queues for off line job execution.aG If the queue manager is not started, then $ start/queue/manager will do K that. However if it has never been started then the queue database files doyB not exist either and the command becomes $ start/queue/manager/newI The latter command is pretty well documented in HELP. Note that there arehL several options that allow specific optimizations and if the node is part of+ a cluster it even becomes more complicated.e  J 2 A printer queue is necessary to make the actual device work. The printerK is attached to a parallel port (e.g. LPA0:) or a terminal port, (like TXA2:eG or TTA1:) other possibilities are network printers (LAT or TELNET). ThecH queue manager is now running so the command $ show queue will get you anL overview of all queues (batch and device queues remember) on that system. If; the desired queue does not exist then it must be created: $t init/queue/on=LPA0: SYS$PRINTlI Where LPA0: is the device and SYS$PRINT the name of the queue. Add /STARTdJ immediately behind the /queue qualifier and the queue will be started withG this command as well. A separate $ start SYS$PRINT will also start thatt queue, provided it exists.  J When the VMS system is booted the STARTUP routine will automatically startL the queue manager, provided it had been initialized and started before. SaveL the original DCL command that you used for starting the Qmanager, especially= if you have modified the default values of the queue manager.lG Queues are not started automatically. The commands ENABLE AUTOSTART andsK DISABLE AUTOSTART can help with that. If the queue is created with the flag B /autostart_on then the ENABLE command will start all those queues.  E That's about it. It is definitely not complete. Queue management is a-K science in itself. But this should get something going provided that you're:@ not trying to do something complicated like postscript printing.  @ Good luck and RTVH (read the VMS Help alot better than man man),   Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Aug 2002 23:57:04 -0700, From: depaula@praxitek.com (Carlos de Paula) Subject: VMS for i86= Message-ID: <672067e5.0208302257.6865da60@posting.google.com>o  = Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for IntelyC plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy ofs it?o  
 Thank you,   Praxi    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:48:39 +0200d- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>D Subject: Re: VMS for i86' Message-ID: <3D7074D8.A241E79D@Free.fr>t  
 Two ideas:  # http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html . http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm   D.   Carlos de Paula wrote: > ? > Does anybody know if there is a VMS (small version) for Intel E > plataforms. I would like to play with it. Where can I get a copy oft > it?b   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:33 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>l* Subject: Re: W2K backup to Pathworks share* Message-ID: <akqmtu$6u5$1@news1.xs4all.nl>   Rainer Giese wrote: 3 > Not quite the right place, but I got no answer in 7 > vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks, so retrying here :  > N > I'm trying to use the Windows 2000 backup program (version 5.0 from Veritas)K > to save local files to a share. It does not work with pathworks shares as-N > destination. Error message is : "drive is invalid, or no access" (but access1 > is okay). Shares from WNT servers are accepted.w > H > Vice-versa: Saving files from a pathworks share to a local disk works. > Pathworks is version 7.2A  >  > What may happen ?a >  > Rainer Giese  E Try Advanced Server V7.3, hat seems to work. I say 'seems' because I "H have had some random problems with restores. Most of the time it works,  though!.  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 02 08:49:02 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)oF Subject: Re: White Paper on DT clustering - VMS as the "Gold Standard") Message-ID: <UDgwXS+IbX+O@elias.decus.ch>'  d In article <Vkvb9.42$Au.584828@news.cpqcorp.net>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> writes:E > or http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/illuminata.pdf: >    Thanks for that.   > 8 > "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message% > news:cGCAVv6CmpRo@elias.decus.ch...t: >> White Paper from Illuminata on DT Clustering in various= >> Unix flavours (emphasis on OpenVMS as the "Gold Standard")@ >>K >> White paper comparing clustering techniques in the light of DT (Disasterf >> Tolerance). >> >> >K > http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pdfe >> >> I found this a good read. >> __o
 >> Paul Sturel >> Switzerland >  >  -- s __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.480 ************************t some people have the attitudes youL seem to be referring to. After all, when was the last time the owners of VMS' didn't treat it like an unwanted child?T  
 >Check out > J >www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. More news, minimal BS, no blather from >non-c