1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 03 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 668       Contents:. Re: Advanced Server PWRK$LMSRV process crashes, Re: Alternatives to "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3" ?, Re: Alternatives to "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3" ?, Re: Alternatives to "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3" ? Broken SYS$SEARCH? Re: Broken SYS$SEARCH? Re: Carly on Newsnight  Re: ConsoleWorks applet problem.  Re: ConsoleWorks applet problem.  Re: ConsoleWorks applet problem.3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper  Re: DCL and quotation marks!L Re: Does anybody know how to convert D_FLOAT's to G_FLOAT's mathematically ?P Re: Does anybody know how to convert D_FLOAT's to G_FLOAT's mathematically ? mat Re: Endianity of Itanium Re: Endianity of Itanium RE: Endianity of Itanium Re: Endianity of Itanium Re: Endianity of Itanium Re: Endianity of Itanium Re: Endianity of Itanium Re: Get owner info from UAF < Re: How does VMS behave with 128 serial ports on Digiboards?< Re: How does VMS behave with 128 serial ports on Digiboards?- Re: I give up, need Solaris for VMS jobs now. - Re: I give up, need Solaris for VMS jobs now. 3 Re: Information Needed -Cross Compiler Availability 3 Re: Information Needed -Cross Compiler Availability " Re: lock manager and blocking asts" Re: lock manager and blocking asts" Re: lock manager and blocking asts" Re: lock manager and blocking asts" Re: lock manager and blocking asts Re: Manipulating the call stack  More moves out of north america  MVII Diag Maint TK50: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003 Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping RE: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping Re: Pathworks and IPC$ PLUG: txt2pdf 6.2 % Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance @ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)# Problem with monitor files playback ' Re: Problem with monitor files playback " Re: Province code change in Canada" RE: Province code change in Canada& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ? Re: Recursive Deletion/ Re: Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC Alpha / RE: Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC Alpha 
 Re: SMTP Help 
 Re: SMTP Help 
 Re: SMTP Help  Re: SRM for multiboot ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project ' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project  Re: TIFF processing on VMS?   Re: Timezone-change observations Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7  Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7 " Re: Wanted: Second hand Alpha DS10" Re: Wanted: Second hand Alpha DS10  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:13:50 GMT % From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com> 7 Subject: Re: Advanced Server PWRK$LMSRV process crashes 0 Message-ID: <2e1H9.6$yM.343186@news.cpqcorp.net>   Hi, . You should get V7.3 ECO 2 from your Compaq CSC hth,  , Compaq Advanced Server V7.3-ECO2 for OpenVMS  
 Release Notes   / 6.3.4 Advanced Server Crashes in Routine gcfree    Problem:  6 The server might crash in routine gcfree of module GC.  6 In some cases, the PWRK$LMSRV process might crash with  7 an access violation. In this case, error messages and a   7 traceback similar to the following would be seen in the    PWRK$LMSRV log file:  ; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual   : address=0000000004449FFC, PC=0000000000200790, PS=0000001B  / %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows   ( image module routine . . . rel PC abs PC  6 PWRK$LMSRV GC gcfree 0000000000000320 0000000000200790  ? PWRK$LMSRV TRANS transcleanup 000000000000020C 000000000013D46C   ; PWRK$LMSRV TRANS smbtrans 0000000000001014 000000000013E274   < PWRK$LMSRV SMBWORK smbwork 00000000000015FC 000000000011F50C   .   8 In other cases, the server might crash in routine gcfree  4 with a GC sanity check failure. Error messages and a  7 traceback similar to the following would be seen in the    PWRK$LMSRV log file:  ? Problems Corrected in Advanced Server V7.3-ECO2 for OpenVMS 6-5   J 12-FEB-2002 18:47:30.52 2021899E:037FAE08 GC sanity check failure   < ---- ********************  G 12-FEB-2002 18:47:30.52 2021899E:037FAE08 PANIC: aborting from module A   " T:[AS.UTIL.SRC]GC.C;1 at line 339!   %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort  / %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows   ( image module routine . . . rel PC abs PC  6 PWRK$LMSRV GC gcfree 0000000000000430 00000000002008A0  @ PWRK$LMSRV TRANS2 transcleanup 00000000000001A0 0000000000140390  = PWRK$LMSRV TRANS2 smbtrans2 0000000000000764 0000000000140954   	 Solution:   8 These problems are resolved in Advanced Server V7.3-ECO2   for OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:50:20 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>5 Subject: Re: Alternatives to "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3" ? 0 Message-ID: <3DEBE31F.CCD37D67@blueyonder.co.uk>   Bob Koehler wrote: > e > In article <3DE8A787.3B2CD548@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: A > > Yes, VEST'ing or using some free Windows VAX emulator was two  > > of my other options... > > > > > Well, I think things are much clearer now and I'll talk to> > > my client to find a solution. `The main goal is to get rid > > of the VAX 4000... > C >    Which will probably outlive either a Sun or Emulator solution. # >    Most VAX 400 are hard to kill.   L But expensive to maintain, and if you've got RF35 drives, you really want toP dump those for some SCSI option (Storeageworks shelf, plus HSD05 type controller$ if you don;t have a free SCSI port).   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 23:13:30 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 5 Subject: Re: Alternatives to "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3" ? * Message-ID: <asgpeq$slo$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <3DE74387.90E52A69@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: . :A client is running "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3"...) :What are the alternatives in this case ? ) :They have a number of Alpha VMS systems.  ..2 :Or is there a native Alpha version of this tool ?  H   DSPP (a program formerly known as the CSA program, in Compaq corporateE   terminology) members have access to PAK generation capabilities for G   OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha -- these tools are available in OpenVMS J   VAX and OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 and later, and a port to Itanium is expected.E   The PAKGEN PAK generation capabilities are available as part of the @   membership in the DSPP (CSA) program.  http://www.hp.com/dspp/    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 05:40:27 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Alternatives to "DEC LMF PAK GEN V1.3" ? 3 Message-ID: <X+f3VHYkhTAk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3DEC5C41.C93908F0@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: ; > Yes, absolutly, running whatever is the latest-n-greatest 1 > version of this tool is of course my option #1.  > > > But, if my client insist in running this older variant, well  A Tell them there is _zero_ chance of getting vendor support on the  older version.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 06:41:20 -0800 ) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Broken SYS$SEARCH? = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0212030641.6827f11f@posting.google.com>    OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1...  = The following works on 7.3 and 7.3-1. Uncomment the line that > is commented out and it no longer works on 7.3-1 (simply keeps  returning the 1st file found)...   #include <fab> #include <nam> #include <rmsdef>  #include <starlet> #include <stdio> #include <string>    #define DEFAULT_NAME "*.*;"  #define MAXPATH 255  #define STRING "%"   main() {  ,     char buff[MAXPATH], searchname[MAXPATH];       struct FAB fblock;     struct NAM nblock;       fblock = cc$rms_fab;     fblock.fab$b_acmodes = 0; $     fblock.fab$l_dna = DEFAULT_NAME;,     fblock.fab$b_dns = strlen(DEFAULT_NAME);     fblock.fab$l_fna = STRING;&     fblock.fab$b_fns = strlen(STRING);     fblock.fab$l_fop = 0;      fblock.fab$w_ifi = 0;      fblock.fab$l_nam = &nblock;        nblock = cc$rms_nam;"     nblock.nam$l_esa = searchname;*     nblock.nam$b_ess = sizeof(searchname);     nblock.nam$l_fnb = 0;      nblock.nam$b_nop = 0;      nblock.nam$l_rlf = 0;      nblock.nam$l_rsa = buff;     nblock.nam$b_rss = MAXPATH;      nblock.nam$b_rsl = 0;   -     printf("parse=%x\n", sys$parse(&fblock));   0     while (sys$search(&fblock) == RMS$_NORMAL) {  2         printf("%s %d\n", buff, nblock.nam$b_rsl); //        nblock.nam$b_rsl = 0;   	         }      }    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:02:28 -0500 , From: Mark Jilson <jilly@clarityconnect.com> Subject: Re: Broken SYS$SEARCH? 6 Message-ID: <7z4H9.4964$5P3.245221@newsfeed.slurp.net>  K The documentation doesn't make it clear but NAM$B_RSL should not be zero'd  J within your $SEARCH loop.  There was a change in the 7.3-1 XQP where this F field ended up being used which leads to your experience.  This 7.3-1 L behaviour is correct but it may get changed to the prior behaviour.  Bottom : line fix is to not modify NAM$B_RSL within a $SEARCH loop.   Patrick Young wrote:   > OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1... > ? > The following works on 7.3 and 7.3-1. Uncomment the line that @ > is commented out and it no longer works on 7.3-1 (simply keeps" > returning the 1st file found)... >  > #include <fab> > #include <nam> > #include <rmsdef>  > #include <starlet> > #include <stdio> > #include <string>  >  > #define DEFAULT_NAME "*.*;"  > #define MAXPATH 255  > #define STRING "%" > 
 > main() { > . >     char buff[MAXPATH], searchname[MAXPATH]; >  >     struct FAB fblock; >     struct NAM nblock; >  >     fblock = cc$rms_fab; >     fblock.fab$b_acmodes = 0; & >     fblock.fab$l_dna = DEFAULT_NAME;. >     fblock.fab$b_dns = strlen(DEFAULT_NAME);  >     fblock.fab$l_fna = STRING;( >     fblock.fab$b_fns = strlen(STRING); >     fblock.fab$l_fop = 0;  >     fblock.fab$w_ifi = 0; ! >     fblock.fab$l_nam = &nblock;  >  >     nblock = cc$rms_nam;$ >     nblock.nam$l_esa = searchname;, >     nblock.nam$b_ess = sizeof(searchname); >     nblock.nam$l_fnb = 0;  >     nblock.nam$b_nop = 0;  >     nblock.nam$l_rlf = 0;  >     nblock.nam$l_rsa = buff;! >     nblock.nam$b_rss = MAXPATH;  >     nblock.nam$b_rsl = 0;  > / >     printf("parse=%x\n", sys$parse(&fblock));  > 2 >     while (sys$search(&fblock) == RMS$_NORMAL) { > 4 >         printf("%s %d\n", buff, nblock.nam$b_rsl);! > //        nblock.nam$b_rsl = 0;  >  >         }  >     }    --  C Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY H       - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett Bodine fanH       - Mark.Jilson@hp.com                            - since 1975 or soH       - http://www.jilly.baka.com           - http://www.brettbodine.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:16:54 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: Carly on Newsnight 8 Message-ID: <s49ouu8cecmj59uctdamophbfqb7ug8il6@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:05:46 -0500, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >"John N." wrote:  >>  M >> The biggest incentive in merging two large companies like Compaq and HP is N >> almost always focused primarily on cost savings through economies of scale,@ >> eliminating redundancies and reducing competitive pressures.  > N >I think that in the case of HP, it was clearly a case of reducing competitiveF >pressures. EG: remove the weak Compaq from the market and capture theT >customers they have left. Getting Tandem was just a "vanity" item that looks great. > K >I don't believe for a minute that anyone really believes those promises of M >"cost savings thorugh economies of scale". Once all the downsizing, layoffs, J >product elimination, sales channels streamlining are all done, the new HP( >won't be as big as the old HP + Compaq.  D I guess I must be missing someting.  I thought that's what economiesF of scale meant.  I.e., both companies' businesses can be served by oneA or 1.5 times the line-of-business (product lines, management, et.  al.).    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:03:30 +0100< From: "julien courtemanche" <julien.courtemanche@wanadoo.fr>) Subject: Re: ConsoleWorks applet problem. 3 Message-ID: <asghrh$1fk$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>    two way   H 1) is it the same PC ? the last version of consolework need the last JRE (1.4 I hope)" 2) try to open the java log window  / good news... with my DSL/VPN, it works fine :-)     = "Alan B." <alanb@cloud9.net> a crit dans le message de news: 2 88599d89.0212021157.4a90ffed@posting.google.com...D > When I am on the office LAN to the ConsoleWorks PC, it works fine.G > When I am at home with DSL/VPN access, it works up to a point. When I G > click on the terminal icon to bring up a console screes, it just sits C > there and I get no console applet. I've tried both Netscape (same F > version as at the office) and IE and both  have the same result. Any( > ideas why the java applet won't start? > 
 >  Thanks, >  >  Alan    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 06:29:41 -0800 $ From: bitflippper@hotmail.com (Mike)) Subject: Re: ConsoleWorks applet problem. = Message-ID: <17d005fe.0212030629.13d0200e@posting.google.com>   B If you have problems with ConsoleWorks that you cannot resolve via: normal means, you can always get help by dropping Email toB support@tditx.com and state your problem. We answer all Email in aE timely manner. We will work to help resolve any issues that you might  have with ConsoleWorks.   w "julien courtemanche" <julien.courtemanche@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<asghrh$1fk$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>... 	 > two way  > J > 1) is it the same PC ? the last version of consolework need the last JRE > (1.4 I hope)$ > 2) try to open the java log window > 1 > good news... with my DSL/VPN, it works fine :-)  >  > ? > "Alan B." <alanb@cloud9.net> a crit dans le message de news: 4 > 88599d89.0212021157.4a90ffed@posting.google.com...F > > When I am on the office LAN to the ConsoleWorks PC, it works fine.I > > When I am at home with DSL/VPN access, it works up to a point. When I I > > click on the terminal icon to bring up a console screes, it just sits E > > there and I get no console applet. I've tried both Netscape (same H > > version as at the office) and IE and both  have the same result. Any* > > ideas why the java applet won't start? > >  > >  Thanks, > > 	 > >  Alan    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 09:19:26 -0800 $ From: j_crowe@tditx.com (John Crowe)) Subject: Re: ConsoleWorks applet problem. = Message-ID: <81195969.0212030919.70ab3bbb@posting.google.com>   e alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) wrote in message news:<88599d89.0212021157.4a90ffed@posting.google.com>... D > When I am on the office LAN to the ConsoleWorks PC, it works fine.G > When I am at home with DSL/VPN access, it works up to a point. When I G > click on the terminal icon to bring up a console screes, it just sits C > there and I get no console applet. I've tried both Netscape (same F > version as at the office) and IE and both  have the same result. Any( > ideas why the java applet won't start? > 
 >  Thanks, >  >  Alan    Hello Alan;   D I'm one of the Support Engineers for TECSys Development, the authors6 of ConsoleWorks, and thought I might lend a hand here.  
 You wrote:B When I am on the office LAN to the ConsoleWorks PC, it works fine.E When I am at home with DSL/VPN access, it works up to a point. When I E click on the terminal icon to bring up a console screes, it just sits A there and I get no console applet. I've tried both Netscape (same D version as at the office) and IE and both  have the same result. Any& ideas why the java applet won't start?    , First - What version of CW are you running? C 2nd - Which JRE do you have installed? (Java Runtime Envrionment).  E Depending on which version of ConsoleWorks you're running, the latest ) and greatest JRE may NOT be appropriate.. B 3rd - Can you enable the Java Console from your Control Panel, andE then attempt to connect to a ConsoleWorks console?    I'd like to get 1 a copy of the Java Console Output from you to see  what's going on.   John Crowe     TECSys Development, LP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:53:42 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <hlvouu4cfg0lr9027bloetfhlve3k8ucev@4ax.com>  , On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:28:48 -0500, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Atlant Schmidt wrote:1 >> Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past; ( >> it'll all be biometrics soon anyway.  >  > K >Assuming VMS survives this long, how will it impact SYSUAF.DAT ? Would the H >engineers modify the format of SYSUAF to allow for oneway encryption ofL >biometric data as well a a password ? Or would they prefer to add a layeredG >product with sufficient privs to bypass the SYSUAF password mechanism?   : An MS Windows based system will handle it via the external authentication mechanism...  -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 10:43:47 -0000 - From: "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper6 Message-ID: <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>  5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway. 8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  H On Mon, 02 Dec 2002, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:  / >Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past; 3 >it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints, 4 >iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths,1 >I don't know which will win, but it will be some  >sort of biometrics.  K Despite there being problems, I now have quite a few users here who deposit ; a public key on the system and use that with SSH to log in.   H Their private key then becomes the "prize" that would give you access toI all systems they use the keypair for - if you also get the passphrase for & it (Rubber hose cryptography anyone?).  0 One user brought up an issue with this though...  J On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,H this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do this on VMS?     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 12:17:27 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <RxCYxR1lje4Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3DE5E679.2030800@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:= > This has been untrue for years for Solaris I cannot comment  > on other UNIX's.  I This has been untrue on most UNIX for about a decade and a half.  If and  E only if the admin turns it on.  Has Solaris eliminated the ability of  the admin to turn it off?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:33:40 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper/ Message-ID: <3DEBB592.D6A461C0@vl.videotron.ca>    Shane Smith wrote:H > The only way I know of to start users caring about the guessability ofI > their passwords is to inconvenience them if they don't pick a good one. I > When they get their account, make it clear that any guessable passwords J > will be arbitrarily changed, and they'll have to come to you to find out > what it changed to.   K Or simply add words to the dictionary that are common to your enterprise or E locality. When I've have users on the phone who had problems changing M passwords, I would reply/enable my terminal (or step next door to the OPA0 to D see the messages) and tell them that the password they used was in aK dictionary or that it was in the history file. I would explain to them that I proper password management is extremely important because this system was J accessible worldwide. And would give them tips on how to choose a password$ that is robust yet easy to remember.  K Educating users is far more effective than playing detective in my opinion.   H Since I was dealing with users from different institutions, it was quiteJ interesting to see the different corporate cultures. (all were involved inL corporate security, you'd think that they would know about security). One UKM bank stood out with users fully aware of what the corporate passowrd policies L were and when they explained how they worked at their banks, I changed theirN account to match their policy and also changed the passowrd expiry date to putN their account "in sync" with  their accounts at their banks so that they wouldK all expired at the same time: they would then change all their passwords at ! the same time once every 90 days.   J Other users from other banks just weren't aware of the password policy andK just changed it whenever they were forced to and didn't understand the need # for a password dictionary etc etc.    L Note that the password dictionary isn't quite up to snuff in my opinion. OneM user kept trying dirty words in english. She was italian in origin, so I told M her (after seing the opcom messages and knowing her) to think of that word in M italian. She laughed, tried it and it worked. I didn't know what word she was < thinking about, but figured it had something to do with sex.    F Lets face it, there are systems where password security isn't all thatN important. And there are others where it is extremely important. Explaining toK the users the importance of the password goes a long way towards gettin the , users to take the passowrd policy seriously.  N There were operators who had to run a nightly SWIFT job. They had no idea whatI those transactions were and didn't take the system seriously. I spent one I evening with them, chatting, getting to know them and observingt how they L worked (learning more about IBM and tandem operations at the same time so itN wasn't a selfless act on my part). And when the time came to do the SWIFT job,H I showed them the actual transactions that they were about to send. TheyK couldn't believe the numbers of zeros on those numbers. (these transactiosn L were generated on an IBM mainframe and then picked up via the SNA gateway by the swift app on VMS).  N The next day, the operations manager phoned me and asked me what I had done toN his operators since they came to him and told him how important the VAXes wereL and were sending out transactions in the millions of dollars, instead of the: silly $40 transactions the IBM was processing for ATMs :-)  G They took the initiative to properly secure the passwords that had been J written down nect to the VT consoles because they realised that they had aK responsability and didn't want to screw up now that they knew how important  that machine was.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 19:53:46 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <asgdoa$qop3a$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   . In article <3DEBABD6.29C78BE0@mindspring.com>,5 	Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > Charlie Hammond wrote: > 0 > Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;4 > it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints,5 > iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths, 2 > I don't know which will win, but it will be some > sort of biometrics.   ? If you have been folowing any of this since 9-11 you would know ? how unlikely that really is.  None of them have worked reliably ? and some of them were easily defeated by high school kids using B materials found around the house (An example was lifting a finger-@ print from a drinking glass and "installing" it on a fake finger@ made with JELLO.)  Voice systems have very high failure rates asA many factors  (a cold, excitement, etc.) can significantly change ? it.  And how many people are going to be willing to stick their B eye up against something they don't understand??  My stupid little1 "laser" pointer says don't shine it in your eyes.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:10:55 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <j7PG9.61$gQ4.1950758@news.cpqcorp.net>   6 In article <asgdoa$qop3a$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: .. >> Charlie Hammond wrote:  >>  1 >> Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past; 5 >> it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints, 6 >> iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths,3 >> I don't know which will win, but it will be some  >> sort of biometrics. ..   Nope.    Incorrect attribution.9 I did NOT write this, nor did I express an opinion on it.    --  I       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:21:22 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper. Message-ID: <3DEBC0C2.5117AC2C@mindspring.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  0 > In article <3DEBABD6.29C78BE0@mindspring.com>,> >         Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: > 2 > > Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;6 > > it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints,7 > > iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths, 4 > > I don't know which will win, but it will be some > > sort of biometrics.  > A > If you have been folowing any of this since 9-11 you would know A > how unlikely that really is.  None of them have worked reliably A > and some of them were easily defeated by high school kids using D > materials found around the house (An example was lifting a finger-B > print from a drinking glass and "installing" it on a fake fingerB > made with JELLO.)  Voice systems have very high failure rates asC > many factors  (a cold, excitement, etc.) can significantly change A > it.  And how many people are going to be willing to stick their D > eye up against something they don't understand??  My stupid little3 > "laser" pointer says don't shine it in your eyes.   3 So you say, but I know that you and I can recognize * the people we know under a wide variety of, lighting, audio quality, etc., and computers) are rapidly growing in power, so the odds , are that *somebody* will develop "biometrics, that works" real soon now, probably mimicing0 one of the recognition schemes that we routinely use.  - Notice, BTW, that I said "iris scans" and not - "retinal scans". Iris scans can be done quite , easily at typical human-to-monitor distances/ and systems that require that you possess live, 0 reactive irises aren't susceptible to the simple0 passive fake-outs seen in movies like "Charlie's Angels".  ' Sidenote: Ray Kurzweil's "The Cognitive ) Computer" makes a fascinating read on the + impact of exponentially-increasing computer " power and what it may bring about.   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 20:58:06 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <asghgu$r33oi$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   . In article <3DEBC0C2.5117AC2C@mindspring.com>,5 	Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: 1 > and systems that require that you possess live, 2 > reactive irises aren't susceptible to the simple2 > passive fake-outs seen in movies like "Charlie's
 > Angels".  : Sorry, I rely on more reputable sources for information on biometrics.  :-)     > ) > Sidenote: Ray Kurzweil's "The Cognitive + > Computer" makes a fascinating read on the - > impact of exponentially-increasing computer $ > power and what it may bring about. >   9 Heard all that before.  I'm still waiting for my personal 7 gyrocopter to eliminate fighting the traffic on crowded 6 expressways and the drive-it-self car so I can enjoy a9 good book while my car handles the task of navigating and 7 the computer controlled house with robotic man servants 6 or even speech recognition that actually works in some5 reliable manner so I can dictate my papers instead of 6 typing them.  And waiting and waiting and waiting.....  : [Hint:  all of the above items were either predicted or in: some cases even advertised as existing.  Some of them were& announced as "imminent" 40 years ago.]   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:46:40 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper/ Message-ID: <3DEBE242.C697C86@blueyonder.co.uk>    Atlant Schmidt wrote:  >  > Charlie Hammond wrote: > 4 > > In article <01C299E3.73877BC0@sulfer.icius.com>,* > > Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: > >  > > ''' H > > >The worst one I know is where the system administrator mandates andF > > >enforces ridiculously complex and hard to remember passwords. ...H > > >... [users are ]forbidden to write [passwords] down, but they can't7 > > remember them so they have to. I could grab as many K > > >username/password combos as I liked just by wandering around the desks  > > >in the morning. ... > > ( > > Writing down passwords is one thing.4 > > Letting them lie around openly is quite another.B > > And then there is failure to enforce a security policy that is! > > obviously not being followed.  > 0 > Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;4 > it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints,5 > iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths, 2 > I don't know which will win, but it will be some > sort of biometrics.  >   = Hmmm, I've seen a few movies where fingers, eyeballs whateverTB were actually removed from the individual or the threat of removal@ was used to defeat biometric scans. I for one would prefer it if> lowlife did not have the option of maiming me for the contents of my current account.  ; > And if it isn't biometrics soon, then as a bridge it will?9 > be a knowledge+token sort of security as as exemplified 8 > by the RSA Security SecureID gadget. This is practical1 > today and is being used by more and more folks.t > A > http://www.rsasecurity.com/products/securid/hardware_token.htmlr >  > Atlant   -- r tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk c  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:24:03 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>o< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BC0@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  $ Re: different security strategies ..  H Like so many other things, since security costs escalate with increasingD levels, it depends on what your requirements are and/or what you are protecting.c  F There are three main levels normally used today - often referred to as factors.  + In increasing level of complexity and cost:w  $ 1. What you know - username/password" 2. What you have - cards, keys etc= 3. What you are - biometrics - fingerprints, Iris checks etc.i  H Many of the issues outlined in this thread would be resolved by adopting8 level 2 + level 1 i.e.. secure card access combined withB username/password. By adopting more than one level, this is called multi-factor security.=20s  D Note - The secure cards today do not require readers on terminals or0 laptops - only that you physically have them.=20  
 Reference:? http://www.rsasecurity.com/products/securid/hardware_token.htmln  " Does it address all the issues?=20  G No, but the costs are much less than going to level 3. Some sites don'tyD care about the extra cost and going to level 3 makes sense for them.   Is level 2 without issues?=20t  G No.  What happens if a user forgets their card at home? Well, imho, itsnF no different if you forget your card access for physical access to allD locations in the building - you either go home and get your card, orG some temporary card with appropriate controls is signed out to you. Howa4 many people go to work without your wallet or purse?  D If the card is stolen, that person must also crack your username andG password. A quick call to the help desk and that card will be no longerl% valid - no matter what they punch in.   D As to the future, I suspect we will continue to see user/pass as theF main scheme, but if there is a big mainstream increase in any of these@ levels, it will be with "what you have" level 2 technologies.=20  H While it may be "cool" or look "neat", most things we protect at work orF at home today do not warrant the extra costs of level 3 "what you are"
 technologies.r   Regardsg  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)(     -----Original Message-----> From: Tim Llewellyn [mailto:tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk]=20 Sent: December 2, 2002 5:47 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper         Atlant Schmidt wrote:s >=20 > Charlie Hammond wrote: >=204 > > In article <01C299E3.73877BC0@sulfer.icius.com>,* > > Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: > >? > > '''sH > > >The worst one I know is where the system administrator mandates and  I > > >enforces ridiculously complex and hard to remember passwords. ...=20eH > > >... [users are ]forbidden to write [passwords] down, but they can't7 > > remember them so they have to. I could grab as manymH > > >username/password combos as I liked just by wandering around the=20 > > >desks in the morning. ... > >c( > > Writing down passwords is one thing.4 > > Letting them lie around openly is quite another.E > > And then there is failure to enforce a security policy that is=20-! > > obviously not being followed.- >=200 > Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;4 > it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints,5 > iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths,92 > I don't know which will win, but it will be some > sort of biometrics.  >=20  B Hmmm, I've seen a few movies where fingers, eyeballs whatever wereF actually removed from the individual or the threat of removal was usedG to defeat biometric scans. I for one would prefer it if lowlife did not,E have the option of maiming me for the contents of my current account.s  ; > And if it isn't biometrics soon, then as a bridge it willi9 > be a knowledge+token sort of security as as exemplified-8 > by the RSA Security SecureID gadget. This is practical1 > today and is being used by more and more folks.0 >=20A > http://www.rsasecurity.com/products/securid/hardware_token.htmlr >=20 > Atlant   --=20C! tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk=200  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 23:07:17 GMT0# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)o< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper* Message-ID: <asgp35$slo$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <as54i3$4jt$1@home.gailly.net>, jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net (Jean-loup Gailly) writes:nF :My patch is designed for the builtin OpenVMS password algorithms, not@ :for external modules. HP (Hoff Hoffman) indeed recommends using7 :algorithms other than their own, in this thread and in*3 :http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/wiz_4612.htmlI  C   I recall making no such recommendation -- I had intended to offerSC   alternative algorithms as an option, but not as a recommendation.    	...  I :By using John, a system administrator can effectively eliminate all weak M :passwords. I'm surprised that many VMS fans cannot understand the usefulness4F :of such a tool. (I wrote the John VMS patch for a security audit of a :large company.)  H   Your phrasing had implied other uses as the primary goal for the tool.  G   Please spend your time writing a filter for use on OpenVMS, and not a H   PC-based password cracking tool.   While I expect that John the RipperE   is a good tool, cracking tools are and have been available for some.D   years now and are certainly useful to authorized security managersF   for verifying passwords.  They also run afoul of breakin evasion andF   of other default techniques, assuming the site has good security forD   its critical system data files and (as Larry Killgallen mentioned)   its system data archives.i  E   Password filters and schemes are rather less commonly available and.C   -- as was quite correctly pointed out in one of the various emailuC   discussions that have started resulting from this thread -- thesetD   filters and algorithms are rather more difficult to implement in aF   correct and consistent and secure fashion.  Poor implementations canG   and do serve to the detriment of system security; to weaken security. F   Stronger implementations of these can serve to reduce the likelyhood2   that the users can choose bad or weak passwords.  I   When password filters are better, John The Ripper and other tools have rI   rather larger and more complex targets -- well, assuming the authorized.H   or nefarious user does not have a copy of the password database, as is   the case here.  F   I do have one or two sneaky ideas for rendering the approach used byE   John The Ripper somewhat more, um, unreliable.  But I digress.  :-)s  H   But all that written, password-based schemes are weak, and are getting	   weaker.m  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:16:55 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <h1aouusp65j59rcmblr5mdcn5m0r101nu3@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:33:24 -0500, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Shane Smith wrote:  >> (C >> True. However, access to that file would also be restricted in a-H >> properly locked down system, so it's still of limited use to hackers.G >> They'd have to get in and get privs to get the file, and the program 2 >> would be fairly pointless once you'd done that. >sH >But if you have a system manager as an accomplice, he hand send you theI >sysuaf.dat, you crack the boss's password and can then have "fun" on ther8 >system, undetected and without any intrusion attempts.  >sN >This is why it is very important to have full trust in anyone with privileges >in your system.  F If you have the system manager as an accomplice, there are much easier/ ways to accomplish this than password cracking.0  < This issue is still not a high-risk issue with VMS security.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 05:31:24 -06001- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen).< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <FWx5BAjssjxr@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  ` In article <hlvouu4cfg0lr9027bloetfhlve3k8ucev@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:. > On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:28:48 -0500, JF Mezei* > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >  >>Atlant Schmidt wrote:n2 >>> Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;) >>> it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. c >> >>L >>Assuming VMS survives this long, how will it impact SYSUAF.DAT ? Would theI >>engineers modify the format of SYSUAF to allow for oneway encryption ofLM >>biometric data as well a a password ? Or would they prefer to add a layered;H >>product with sufficient privs to bypass the SYSUAF password mechanism? > < > An MS Windows based system will handle it via the external > authentication mechanism...b  A External Authentication providers are expected to store their ownmA metadata.  The Windows ACME provided with the VMS Advanced Serverf@ does that by relying (among other things) on a Microsoft system,B but when VMS releases the ability to write your own AuthenticationB Provider (ACME), each ACME author can choose any method they want.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:02:49 +0100 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>0< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper+ Message-ID: <3DECAB79.2B314F82@mediasec.de>$  5 > So you say, but I know that you and I can recognize', > the people we know under a wide variety of. > lighting, audio quality, etc., and computers+ > are rapidly growing in power, so the oddse. > are that *somebody* will develop "biometrics. > that works" real soon now, probably mimicing2 > one of the recognition schemes that we routinely > use.  G It wouldn't even nowadays be a question of computer power - for about anI decade now it a question of "how-to" or "know-how". As a co-developer andhI -inventor of the approach that still is, AFAIK, the best face recognitioneG algorithm I can tell you we have a long way to go - and even your "gold<H standard", your own recognition ability, is more fallible than you know.  ) > Sidenote: Ray Kurzweil's "The Cognitive"+ > Computer" makes a fascinating read on theI- > impact of exponentially-increasing computerP$ > power and what it may bring about.  ! Kurzweil's a modern-age crackpot.n   Even his name is a giveaway.   	Jan   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:43:09 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper+ Message-ID: <asi8st$d4c$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   c In article <SjPeY4ZUOBwU@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:kZ >In article <as7ll2$q9e$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:N >> Increasing the characterset from which VMS passwords can be chosen probablyK >> wouldn't really increase VMS security when these mechanisms are properlyr >> deployed. > J >   No, but it does help to keep VMS in shops where the security "experts"G >   are convonced they must have rules requiring characters VMS doens'tm" >   currently allow or care about. >=L Which is pretty much what I said in the next few paragraphs of that posting.  
 David Webb VMMS and Unix team leader  CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:35:15 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)/< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper+ Message-ID: <asibuj$e8a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>0  ` In article <hjuouuc9dp5el7e92jhij552qgcutm9ej9@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:B >On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:07:14 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >(David Webb) wrote: >5u >>In article <3DEB6E87.4BB917C1@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes: L >>>> Oh, by the way, the enterprise directory is included as part of OpenVMS >>>> with no additional cost.i >>> I >>>And Microsoft has apparently decided to re-write, from scratch, Active J >>>Directory (its take on LDAP) because their current design has unfixable >>>security holes... >>>e >>>	Jan  >> >>References please. >pG >Call Microsoft and ask for a briefing on Active Directory security andt% >their plans to re-implement for .NETe >fG >If they act dumb try adding "I've heard that you no longer claim a W2KsA >domain is an effective security boundary. Can you explain this?"p >u >>David Webb >>VMS and Unix team leader >>CCSS >>Middlesex University >b >--b >Alanh   Alan,+  K Sorry I thought Jan was referring to something different than the fact thatsN PHYSICAL access to any domain controller in a forest can be used to compromise7 an entire organisation which you reported in september.t  I Reporting that to management has resulted in our AD implementation being 0I simplified down to just a single domain since having multiple domains (orc? forests) doesn't add any real security and is easier to manage.eN Microsoft just says that we should severely restrict Physical access to domain controllers.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:14:24 -0500o2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper. Message-ID: <3DECBC40.CFDC9FA1@mindspring.com>   "Jan C. Vorbrggen" wrote:   >N+ > > Sidenote: Ray Kurzweil's "The Cognitivel- > > Computer" makes a fascinating read on thes/ > > impact of exponentially-increasing computere& > > power and what it may bring about. > # > Kurzweil's a modern-age crackpot.b  + There are apparently a fair number of blind + people and musicians who disagree with you.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:20:11 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper. Message-ID: <3DECBD9B.543CD20B@mindspring.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Atlant Schmidt wrote:m >m2 > > Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;6 > > it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints,7 > > iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths,n4 > > I don't know which will win, but it will be some > > sort of biometrics.l > >o >e? > Hmmm, I've seen a few movies where fingers, eyeballs whateverrD > were actually removed from the individual or the threat of removalB > was used to defeat biometric scans. I for one would prefer it if@ > lowlife did not have the option of maiming me for the contents > of my current account.  - That was my point about the "Charlie's Angel"s/ joke (which someone apparently took seriously).s1 The Angel had fake-irises (in the form of contact 2 lenses), but this wouldn't fool a real recognition/ system as the fake irises would be unresponsiveo to changes in light level.  - Similarly, modern fingerprint recognition can ( be combined with other methods to decide+ whether the finger is alive or dead. It can ( also challenge you to present a specific digit out of your ten (or so).  , I guess I have a lot more faith in the speed. of technological progress than most of you do.0 But then again, you're still trying to get minor- improvements made to DCL (like longer strings:* and longer prompts, so I can see where you might be jaded. :-)9   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:26:05 +0000<% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <mfhpuu8i0529r6659h0115kjne6ug8kp9e@4ax.com>  A On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:35:15 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  (David Webb) wrote:r   >iJ >Reporting that to management has resulted in our AD implementation being J >simplified down to just a single domain since having multiple domains (or@ >forests) doesn't add any real security and is easier to manage.O >Microsoft just says that we should severely restrict Physical access to domainn
 >controllers.   ? Which can be difficult if you have domain controllers in highly:F unstable countries - as we do!. Armed guards protect the compound 24x7D but it will probably get a  forest all if its own when we move to ADC live. Although we are now looking at delaying roll out for the .NET  re-architecturing.  F With .NET supposedly a (.NET) domain in a (.NET) forest can again be a security boundary.   >h >David Webb. >VMS and Unix team leaderp >CCSS' >Middlesex University  >v >i   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 09:25:08 -0600E- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <nxSs2qWAllo+@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  c In article <3DECBD9B.543CD20B@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:e  . > I guess I have a lot more faith in the speed0 > of technological progress than most of you do.  C The issue is not technological progress, but the speed of adoption. D For the past 20 years there has been no need for reusable passwords, yet they still predominate.d   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 16:31:31 GMTu, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <asim93$ro856$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>i  3 In article <G5Ybbagovfd1@eisner.encompasserve.org>,y0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b > In article <ash46h$qvvue$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  F >> Where was that??  There has not been passenger service on any trackD >> in NEPA since before I was born (which is a lot longer ago than I >> wish it was!!)  > > > What about the Laurel Line, or doesn't an Interurban count ? >  > You are a real youngster :-)  J I'm 52 and grew up falling asleep to the rhythm of the rails as the tracksH were less than 50' from my house.  The only passenger service I ever sawH locally was when we hopped a boxcar for a quick ride to the other end ofJ town.  Unless you count things like The Stourbridge Lion which still haulsK passengers to Honesdale for a day of shopping in the quaint shops and back.-G Or Pocono Norhteast who fielded 2 Rapid Transit type cars and never gotsM far enough along to actually carry a passenger before the cpompany folded up.   'G The nearest serious passenger service was Harrisburg and even that diedsG long ago (although I hear they want to revive it not only there, but upeF here as well.  But at this stage of the game it will do more harm than good.)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 16:38:12 GMTt( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <asimlk$ro856$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>o  6 In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,0 	"Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes: > 2 > One user brought up an issue with this though... > L > On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,J > this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do > this on VMS?  E How about having the system generate a maximum length random passwordeE and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'llw bet the result is the same.e   bill   -- SJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:10:09 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper0 Message-ID: <01C29AB4.4D792150@sulfer.icius.com>  D The trains aren't all gone. Until I moved home last week, I was justD within hearing distance of the local railway line. It mostly carriedG cargo, but there were passenger trains. Don't know if any were intendedaE for commuters though. The nearest station was 3 miles down the track.h  F There was at least one ******* driver who insisted on hitting the hornE on the way through town in the middle of the night. I'd have loved to " have a percussive word with him...   Shaneb   -----Original Message-----8 From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]( Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:32 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper    3 In article <G5Ybbagovfd1@eisner.encompasserve.org>,r0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:N > In article <ash46h$qvvue$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:e >>  F >> Where was that??  There has not been passenger service on any trackD >> in NEPA since before I was born (which is a lot longer ago than I >> wish it was!!)t > > > What about the Laurel Line, or doesn't an Interurban count ? >  > You are a real youngster :-)  C I'm 52 and grew up falling asleep to the rhythm of the rails as thel tracksH were less than 50' from my house.  The only passenger service I ever sawH locally was when we hopped a boxcar for a quick ride to the other end ofD town.  Unless you count things like The Stourbridge Lion which still haulsiE passengers to Honesdale for a day of shopping in the quaint shops ande back.iG Or Pocono Norhteast who fielded 2 Rapid Transit type cars and never goteB far enough along to actually carry a passenger before the cpompany
 folded up.  iG The nearest serious passenger service was Harrisburg and even that dieddG long ago (although I hear they want to revive it not only there, but updF here as well.  But at this stage of the game it will do more harm than good.)   bill   -- .C Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threes wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:13:19 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper0 Message-ID: <01C29AB4.A6E15050@sulfer.icius.com>  B What's wrong with disuser-ing the account? Isn't that functionally equivalent?    Shaneo   -----Original Message-----0 From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu]( Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:38 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper    6 In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,0 	"Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes: > 2 > One user brought up an issue with this though... > L > On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,J > this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do > this on VMS?  E How about having the system generate a maximum length random password E and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'lld bet the result is the same.    bill   -- mC Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threes wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:40:38 -0500a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper- Message-ID: <3DECFAA5.DFF477@vl.videotron.ca>    "Main, Kerry" wrote:F > Note - The secure cards today do not require readers on terminals or/ > laptops - only that you physically have them.o  , Or be on the phone with someone who has one.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:42:07 -0500g0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper/ Message-ID: <3DECFAFF.D15E786B@vl.videotron.ca>s   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:eL > On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,J > this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do > this on VMS?  & MC AUTHORIZE MOD username/FLAG=DISUSER   MC AUTHORIZE HELP MOD  " Will give you a whole lot of stuff   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:02:56 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> % Subject: Re: DCL and quotation marks!i$ Message-ID: <3dece3d6$1@news.si.com>  F >What I am trying to do is to create a DCL procedure using another DCLF >procedure. What I would like to be the final file would be like this: >a >$ testsym = "test"o0 >$ write sys$output "This is just a ''testsym'." >$ exitn   Ditch the apostrophes:   $ open/write dcl dcl.com" $ write dcl "$ testsym = ""test"""D $ write dcl "$ write sys$output ""This is just a "", testsym, "".""" $ write dcl "$ exit" $ close dclr $ type dcl.com $ testsym = "test"2 $ write sys$output "This is just a ", testsym, "." $ exit $ @dcl This is just a test. --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comnA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comJ= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 21:45:25 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")U Subject: Re: Does anybody know how to convert D_FLOAT's to G_FLOAT's mathematically ?m6 Message-ID: <00A17D91.87DEA715@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <f936a854.0212020456.1b61ada0@posting.google.com>, robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey) writes:D >I know there is the MTH$ function MTH$CVT_D_G, but we are trying to' >convert to numbers in Microsoft Excel.r >yF >It's a long story but we have an application that writes values to anG >Oracle Rdb database as D_FLOAT values.  The application that reads the1A >values out then converts them to G_FLOAT's for display purposes.j >:D >We want to ODBC connect to the database and extract the values intoD >Microsoft Excel, but of course we are extracting the D_FLOAT values >which are useless.@ >dG >Can anybody assist with how to convert these numbers mathematically ??eG > I imagine there must be a formula that can be applied (which probably  >involves bit shifting ).F >e' >Any help would be greatly appreciated.g  K I know it's not what you were asking for, but can't you just have your  DBA M go into the database and define either a separate view or a computed_by field1D (virtual field) which includes your D_float numbers cast to text (myJ preference) and then let Excel deal with converting it back to computable  numbers?  H (The same idea should work for conversion to other formats, but text has0 the advantage that you can see what's going on.)   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================a0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025aO ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:08:25 -0500,0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Does anybody know how to convert D_FLOAT's to G_FLOAT's mathematically ? mato/ Message-ID: <3DEBAFA8.4DC87B93@vl.videotron.ca>a   Rob Kersey wrote: H > Can anybody assist with how to convert these numbers mathematically ??H >  I imagine there must be a formula that can be applied (which probably > involves bit shifting ).   It is currently down, but:7 http://www.algonquinc.on.ca/~pincka/dat2343/lect042.htme  K Has definitions on the IEEE floating point numbers. I used it to convert 64vJ bit IEEE floats down to 32 bit floats (on a psion PDA) to feed my GPS some almanach data.  F It may have the definitions of the VAX floating point numbers as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:50:01 -0500G0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itanium / Message-ID: <3DEBE399.27F33100@vl.videotron.ca>a   Bob Koehler wrote:K >    Itanium's instructions must be stored little-endian, but it can access I >    data in little-endian or big-endian.  IIRC this can be switched on at3 >    per-process basis while the system is running.i  H Does a chip "access" the data in whatever endianness but once inside theF registers for math or comparisons, the data is in a fixed endianness ?  L And how could a process have the privilege to change endianness of the CPU ?J When a process calls a system routine, wouldn't the system routine be veryF unhappy to be fed arguments in an aorder that doesn't match what it is expecting ?t   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:38:39 +0000 (UTC)0 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotcom>! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itaniumc/ Message-ID: <asi8ke$q0c$1@helle.btinternet.com>e  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:9svVtYlu$HNj@eisner.encompasserve.org...i: > In article <3DE93245.4B5CE655@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei) <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:t > > John McLean wrote:L > >> At a recent OpenVMS Techical Seminar I heard that Itanium is any-endianL > >> for data but little endian for instructions.  You will be able to set a9 > >> flag bit in your PCB to say which way the data goes.h > >o > >oL > > Interesting, so the compilers and linkers that run on HP-UX will have to doJ > > neat tricks to genereate little-endian code. Does this mean that HP-UXK > > compilers will have to be significantly different that HP might not seee fit to' > > use the Intel compilers for HP-UX ?  >hI >    I would think that Intel compilers would support both modes.  NobodytF >    has said anything about endianness as an issue in the HP-UX port. >3  C Bob, you may wish to check this assumption with a reputable source.:  F In an excellent "Porting OpenVMS to Itanium(R): OS and Apps" session IC attended last week  in Scotland, this was stated as not the case. AmE digression led to a brief discussion of endianness, and the following  dialogue occured (paraphrased):r  ! Q: Do HP-UX use Intel's toolsets?sL A: No, the toolsets are from HP-UX (answered by a gentleman from "pre-merger HP") Q: Why? / A: Intel's have the wrong endianness for HP-UX.s1 And then we returned to scheduled VMS discussion.i  I This may be a shame really. Itanium users need the very best toolset theytJ can get, in order to maximise chances of getting correct and optimal code;I the compiler's in charge, the silicon is just a "replay engine" (new term H from last week). Splitting the toolset's user base two ways depending onK endianness makes everything need extra extra extra care. The alternative ofeK converging on a single toolset at this stage was presumably unacceptable tot- some group somewhere (this wasn't discussed).d  ' Corrections and clarifications welcome.    regardsf john   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:38:44 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i! Subject: RE: Endianity of Itanium 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELCGCAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----g8 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]( >Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 2:50 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: Endianity of Itanium >- >  >Bob Koehler wrote:dL >>    Itanium's instructions must be stored little-endian, but it can accessJ >>    data in little-endian or big-endian.  IIRC this can be switched on a4 >>    per-process basis while the system is running. >:I >Does a chip "access" the data in whatever endianness but once inside theAG >registers for math or comparisons, the data is in a fixed endianness ?f  	 Yes, big.y   >tC >And how could a process have the privilege to change endianness ofw
 >the CPU ?K >When a process calls a system routine, wouldn't the system routine be verytG >unhappy to be fed arguments in an aorder that doesn't match what it isr >expecting ? >. >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.w; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).cB >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >s ---i& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:31:24 -0500e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itaniums. Message-ID: <3DECC03C.DDEF3E80@mindspring.com>   JF Mezei wrote:u   > Bob Koehler wrote:M > >    Itanium's instructions must be stored little-endian, but it can accesssK > >    data in little-endian or big-endian.  IIRC this can be switched on an5 > >    per-process basis while the system is running.t >sJ > Does a chip "access" the data in whatever endianness but once inside theH > registers for math or comparisons, the data is in a fixed endianness ?  4 Endianess in the sense we're discussing only affects8 how the memory addresses the smaller units (e.g., bytes)9 that can be aggregated to form bigger units (e.g., ints).k  3 (Someone earlier mentioned that endianess flips the,7 bit order. This is wrong, It may flip the bit numbering 2 order, but it certainly doesn't exchange the most-6 significant-bit with the least-significant-bit, either3 in big aggregates [like ints] or the smallest unitsr [like bytes].  )  , So once the data has been read into a larger2 internal aggregate within the chip (e.g., a 64-bit$ register), the endianess disappears.    N > And how could a process have the privilege to change endianness of the CPU ?L > When a process calls a system routine, wouldn't the system routine be veryG > unhappy to be fed arguments in an order that doesn't match what it is 
 > expecting ?t  , Well, if you flipped endianess by means of a, system call (or evan a mode bit), the system( could reasonable remember or check which+ byte-order you're currently using and couldi. do the right thing with regard to interpreting your arguments.e  / I forget which system does this, but there's atu2 least one system out there that allows per-process1 endianess (AIX? Z/OS? OS/400? Pretty sure it's anr2 IBM OS). I assume they do exactly what I proposed.3 Check the "IBM Journal of Research and Development"c% and I'm sure you'll find a reference.T   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:26:11 +0000i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itanium 8 Message-ID: <lvhpuusijdnl8o76nk36t8ea2jia53vif3@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:38:39 +0000 (UTC), "John Wallace" " <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotcom> wrote:    G >In an excellent "Porting OpenVMS to Itanium(R): OS and Apps" session I D >attended last week  in Scotland, this was stated as not the case. A  C What session in Scotland?? Did I miss something? Where and when wast: it. I don't recall receiving any communication about this.  " Or was it a private company thing?  F >digression led to a brief discussion of endianness, and the following  >dialogue occured (paraphrased): >g" >Q: Do HP-UX use Intel's toolsets?M >A: No, the toolsets are from HP-UX (answered by a gentleman from "pre-merger  >HP")i >Q: Why?0 >A: Intel's have the wrong endianness for HP-UX.2 >And then we returned to scheduled VMS discussion. >oJ >This may be a shame really. Itanium users need the very best toolset theyK >can get, in order to maximise chances of getting correct and optimal code;fJ >the compiler's in charge, the silicon is just a "replay engine" (new termI >from last week). Splitting the toolset's user base two ways depending on.L >endianness makes everything need extra extra extra care. The alternative ofL >converging on a single toolset at this stage was presumably unacceptable to. >some group somewhere (this wasn't discussed). > ( >Corrections and clarifications welcome. >  >regards >johnG >V   -- Alan   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:16:23 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>s! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itanium-1 Message-ID: <asilcm$s9g$1@knossos.btinternet.com>s  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:lvhpuusijdnl8o76nk36t8ea2jia53vif3@4ax.com...9 > On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:38:39 +0000 (UTC), "John Wallace"e$ > <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotcom> wrote: >  >oI > >In an excellent "Porting OpenVMS to Itanium(R): OS and Apps" session ItF > >attended last week  in Scotland, this was stated as not the case. A >cE > What session in Scotland?? Did I miss something? Where and when wasa< > it. I don't recall receiving any communication about this. >o$ > Or was it a private company thing? >y <big snip re endian stuff>G It was a couple of hours out of a rather good 3-day "Knowledge Transfer I Event" intended for Compaq/HP "channel partner" presales folks all aroundrE EMEA. Where: a rather nice hotel (Cameron House) on the banks of LochoJ Lomond. All it was missing was half-decent weather. Details are on the webI at http://www.compaq.com/emea/presalessupport/KTE_Home.html but I believeJF owing to recent changes in organisation inside The New HP there are noJ immediate plans for another one. I heard about it through the grapevine...J I've been off the Compaq/HP radar for a little while and I needed to catch	 up a bit.o  D Btw, I got my (munged) email address wrong in my last post. AlthoughL yahoo.com and yahoo.co.uk work identically for *me* to access my mail, *you*K must send to me @yahoo.co.uk, not yahoo.com. I *think* it's right now. ManyiK apologies. (I should probably go back to Mozilla where I had all this stuffi rightish once).    regardst john   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 09:31:37 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itanium 3 Message-ID: <QvwZ+JNItXAe@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  i In article <asilcm$s9g$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk> writes:e4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:lvhpuusijdnl8o76nk36t8ea2jia53vif3@4ax.com...: >> On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:38:39 +0000 (UTC), "John Wallace"% >> <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotcom> wrote:i >> >>J >> >In an excellent "Porting OpenVMS to Itanium(R): OS and Apps" session IG >> >attended last week  in Scotland, this was stated as not the case. Ar >>F >> What session in Scotland?? Did I miss something? Where and when was= >> it. I don't recall receiving any communication about this.w >>% >> Or was it a private company thing?- >> > <big snip re endian stuff>I > It was a couple of hours out of a rather good 3-day "Knowledge TransferOK > Event" intended for Compaq/HP "channel partner" presales folks all aroundnG > EMEA. Where: a rather nice hotel (Cameron House) on the banks of LochO5 > Lomond. All it was missing was half-decent weather.-  G SEE !  The weather would not be a problem if EV8 had not been cancelledeE and Digital had not sold their Polycenter products to CA and they had C followed through with Jupiter so we had 4 extra bits per longword !   B (The resemblance of the above to remarks by any current posters to% comp.os.vms is entirely intentional.)e   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 23:38:21 GMTi# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)y$ Subject: Re: Get owner info from UAF* Message-ID: <asgqtd$slo$5@web1.cup.hp.com>  a In article <819f1cc4.0211210955.c6a6de3@posting.google.com>, daveparboo@hotmail.com (DXP) writes:iC :I need to extract the "Owner" details from SYSUAF - now before yousF :start pounding away at your keyboard, thinking "this should be in FAQ% :by now", let me add the following...n  C   Checked the Google newsgroup archives?  They're far more detailedt+   than the FAQ, going back many years.  :-)e  C   There's a GETUAI utility around explicitly intended to be called aA   from and used from within DCL procedures, and there are variouse2   DCL-based tools for extracting data from SYSUAF.  B   The GETUAI tool was available from the DECUS library, and likelyB   from other FTP servers around the 'net.  Here is an extract from4   some text retrieved via a Google newsgroup search:  K GETUAI          Does what you would expect the lexical F$GETUAI to do if ithE                 existed.  Provides an easy DCL-level interface to the '                 $GETUAI system service.j#                 Availability:   S14:  A   Personally, I'd stay far, far, far away from parsing the record B   format of the entries within SYSUAF.  I would strongly encourageE   you to avoid coding SYSUAF knowledge into your DCL or into most anytD   other component.  (I'd go so far as to adapt to the SYSUAF indexedB   key structure upon connection, entirely dynamically, for the oneC   thing that I am aware of that is not yet available via sys$getuaiYD   -- and that is wildcard username access.  Once I had the name, I'd7   use sys$getuai for all other operations and details.)x    
   By dynamic:o  0     create and initialize FAB, RAB, XAMSUM, etc.  	     $openo  B     use NOK to allow creation and initialization of correct number     of XABKEY structures       $display  9     Search the XABKEY structures for the appropriate key.i  D   Using this approach, you don't need to know particular details of    the indexed file keys.  G   If somebody should happen to update GETUAI, I can include the update 5A   onto future OpenVMS Freeware distributions, too.  Hint, hint...k  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:46:58 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>E Subject: Re: How does VMS behave with 128 serial ports on Digiboards?o/ Message-ID: <3DEBB8AF.A7D43E62@vl.videotron.ca>o  
 BobCov wrote:a > F > I would like to know if it is possible to get a delay of a second orE > two on a 64 port PCI digiboard under VMS if many of the other ports  > are sending at the same time.y  H Look at the specs of the serial boards. They should have a total maximum agregate throughput.  < For instance, on a microvaxII the 8 port DHQ-11s (page 1-1):  L "It has a total module throughouput of 60,000 characters per second, using 8L bit characters, with all channels operating at 38.4 kbaud for both character reception and transmission."  N Note that with 8 data bits and one stop bit,  38.4kbaud yields about 4266 cps.N In full duplex with reception and sending at the same time, it gives 8533 cps. On 8 ports: 68266 cps. a    J If there is a performance problem, have you looked at DMA settings ?  (NotE sure of TTY_DMASIZE is used on Alpha for the type of board you have).m  K Do the ports send a constant stream of data ? Does the data get sent to oner# process or 64 different processes ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:14:08 +01002 From: "Michael Hubel" <michael.hubel@de.bosch.com>E Subject: Re: How does VMS behave with 128 serial ports on Digiboards?r4 Message-ID: <asie7h$jku$1@ns2.fe.internet.bosch.com>  K I use 32 Ports 2 x 16-port concentrator boxes with Digiboard AccelePort Xem L Host Card PCI. Some ports use the Speed 115.2 Kbps. All the ports sending at  the same time and it works fine.J The Operating system is OpenVMS/Alpha V7.2-1 and V7.3-1 and driver version 1.2.3.  G When I remember right the spec, if you use more than 32 ports (48 or 64pF ports) you cannot use the full speed of  115.2 Kbps on all ports, only. 64kbps. For details you must look in the spec.   about Digiboard drivers for VMSa: http://support.digi.com/support/drivers/vms/index.html#XEM   michael.hubel at bosch de comk    . "BobCov" <qsportclub@aol.com> wrote in message7 news:47b5e52a.0212020801.6514109e@posting.google.com...=F > I would like to know if it is possible to get a delay of a second orE > two on a 64 port PCI digiboard under VMS if many of the other portst > are sending at the same time.p >nG > The service that experiences the delay runs at 4800 baud. Many of the G > other ports on the same board are at 19,200.  There are two boards in>  > the Alpha and 128 total ports. >.D > When there is nothing going on, the 4800 baud line works fine. ButD > when there is a lot of other activity at certain times of the day,F > there is a delay in getting data contributed from this port. I don'tF > know if the delay is in how the Alpha gathers the data or if it is aD > delay caused by the software on the Alpha slowing down under load. >aC > Any thoughts on whether there could be a delay related to how VMSeH > handles digiboards?  Would it make a difference if I put the 4800 baud > port on an 8 port digiboard? >t > -Bob > b o b c o v at a o l com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:46:51 GMTl4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: I give up, need Solaris for VMS jobs now.0 Message-ID: <3DEBC62F.200A90AA@blueyonder.co.uk>   Howard S Shubs wrote:t >   uF > Y'know, I've been working on getting out of VMS for some time.  So IA > went for training last March.  Got me some Tru64 system manager- > training!  So useful...  >   S Yup, I have 5 years Tru64 experience (from day one of alpha), but none since 1997.  B Can't even get a sqeak of interest from agents toting Tru64 roles.  K For the last 3 years or so, it seems training without commercial experience   to back it up is not worth much.  H > The more I think about it, the more I come to the belief that quittingH > VMS is like quitting smoking: the only way is cold-turkey, 'cause it's
 > SO nice.  G Agents look at my CV (with Unix and NT experience as well as VMS) and I K am immediately tarred with the VMS brush. Maybe they don;t want someone who-1 keeps saying "If only this was a VMS system" :-).    regardsa    h6 > Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   -- M tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:49:10 GMTp4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: I give up, need Solaris for VMS jobs now.0 Message-ID: <3DEBC6B9.8B25C795@blueyonder.co.uk>   Daryl Jones wrote:    > 	 > Atlant,  > C > Good point! However, after seeing 2.6 millions dollars spent on a E > Solaris solution when there was a VMS solution in place and VMS was @ > faster. I wonder. Solaris will have their hay-day and pass on. > 
 > Daryl Jonesa   Daryl,  A You are assuming that the people respnsible for such debacles arew, prepared to admitt that they made a mistake.   regardse   -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk e  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:43:27 GMTc4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Information Needed -Cross Compiler Availability0 Message-ID: <3DEBE182.E23580FA@blueyonder.co.uk>   Bob Koehler wrote: > d > In article <a52b9f26.0211290027.2745938f@posting.google.com>, nipun_java@yahoo.com (nipun) writes:# > > Any input would be appreciated.  > >h > > Domain : Embedded Systemso > >m > > The problem statement :L > >eE > > Software Development Environment on VAX-VMS has to be ported to ajI > > suitable target development environment.The target processor is Intel  > > 80186 Processor. > A >    OpenVMS Alpha would be the best "suitable target developmentaK >    environment".  You might have to VEST the compilers and similar tools.@ > F >    Second best "suitable target development environment" would be to >    remain with VAX-VMS.   V ... using a VAX emulator on Intel processors if keeping your VAX hardware is an issue.   -- t tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk n  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 05:38:53 -0600h- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c< Subject: Re: Information Needed -Cross Compiler Availability3 Message-ID: <B6wgT$MxngWj@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  b In article <a52b9f26.0212022148.2020cacb@posting.google.com>, nipun_java@yahoo.com (nipun) writes:  F > Also the client is keen on porting the existing software developmentE > environment (which is currently on  Vax-vms5.5-2 platform and codedeD > mostly in Pascal with a bit of Ada) to A Unix variant( Sun SolarisG > preferred, again the operating system has to be reasoned out here) as- > I said before. > @ > The "new" development environment language is to be Ada or any> > other(with adequate reasoning in favor of One or the other).  F > 1) PLm compiler availability : If we are using Plm compiler then theH > effort of porting would be relatively less.But it seems its very toughB > to find a PL/M compiler for 80186. In that Case we would have toD > choose C ( or any other suitable) as target embedded language(Note= > that this could be different from the language of the "new"t > development environment).e  D If you are already using Ada in your development environment, by allC means check out GreenHills cross-compilers to use Ada for producingcE your target code.  Typically the embedded machine is where it is muchi! more critical to have correction.i  H > 2) In absence of Plm compiler 2 approaches could be followed if use of- > C as target embedded language is suggested:r > F > a) Either the source code generation tools would be made to output CG > code instead of PL/M code and then a suitable cross compiler is used.TD > This would increase porting effort but may lead to optimized code.  C An Ada (or Pascal, or even Fortran) program is much more capable of A being highly optimized because it provides more detailed semantic  information than a C program.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 06:52:12 GMTr+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>o+ Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking asts < Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0212022239570.8968-100000@jaipur>  ( On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Joshua Lehrer wrote:E > I have discovered two issues with the lock manager that I need helpoB > with.  Below is a mainprog which acquires an exclusive lock, andG > registers an ast to be delivered when the process is blocking anothercA > process from getting the same lock.  It then goes in to a loop,e2 > hibernating, and re-hibernating whenever awoken.  + But the main program doesn't drop the lock?r  B > My first question is, why is the AST only delivered to the firstG > process once?  The documentation says "When the lock prevents anotheroF > lock from being granted, the blocking routine is delivered as an ASTC > to the process."  It says nothing about this only hapenning once.y  J Because the second time, the first process isn't keeping the third processI from getting the lock...  the second process is. (assuming the process is D still alive).  The third process won't get the lock until the secondF process gets the lock first.  So, technically, the first process isn't0 keeping the third process from getting the lock.  F The intent of the blocking AST is that when the first process gets theJ blocking AST, it will complete whatever it is doing with the lock and dropG the lock.  But that doesn't appear to be happening here.  So it doesn'tiB surprise me that the AST is called only once.  You've already beenI notified you're blocking access to the lock.  You need to get told again?m  A Maybe there's another way to do what you're trying to accomplish.m  B > My second question is, why does the first process ever wake fromC > hibernation?  When the ast is delivered, it should only wake fromlF > hibernation if I call sys$wake.  Even if I leave the body of the astG > empty, it still wakes up from hibernation.  Shouldn't this go back ins) > to hibernation, unless I call sys$wake?-  H Spurious wakeups are possible.  Something I notice here is that printf()J is called in the AST routine.  I don't know what the rules are in C++, butI in C, calling C RTL routines in an AST can be dangerous and unpredictablenG unless you make the appropriate call to decc$set_reentrancy().  The RTLc! might be causing wakeups as well.    -Ryant   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:45:00 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking astst0 Message-ID: <00A17E28.5B40AB23@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <31c49f0d.0212021850.45a7dee9@posting.google.com>, usenet_cpp@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) writes:nD >I have discovered two issues with the lock manager that I need helpA >with.  Below is a mainprog which acquires an exclusive lock, and F >registers an ast to be delivered when the process is blocking another@ >process from getting the same lock.  It then goes in to a loop,1 >hibernating, and re-hibernating whenever awoken.e > D >Process #1 runs this mainprog, acquiring the lock, then hibernates: >( >Getting exclusive locke >Got exclusive lockt >going in to hibernation >s >e% >A second process then does the same:e >f >Getting exclusive locka >t >n0 >And the AST is delievered to the first process: >t >blocking ast called >awake >going in to hibernation >  > & >A *third* process then does the same: >f >Getting exclusive lockh >f >e3 >But the AST in the first process is not delivered.u > A >My first question is, why is the AST only delivered to the firstaF >process once?  The documentation says "When the lock prevents anotherE >lock from being granted, the blocking routine is delivered as an ASTdB >to the process."  It says nothing about this only hapenning once.  G Because it is.  It's how the system service behaves.  When the blockinghG AST is delivered the process holding the lock would typically reliquish H it's hold so that the requesting process can obtain the lock.  Then, theF original process, if it still wants control of the lock, should queue G for the lock again (with a blocking AST requested if so desired).  When H the other process dequeues the lock, this process will again acquire it.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            r5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:39:21 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> + Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking astsC/ Message-ID: <uupk19ni8ebrbd@news.supernews.com>e  > "Joshua Lehrer" <usenet_cpp@lehrerfamily.com> wrote in message7 news:31c49f0d.0212021850.45a7dee9@posting.google.com...aE > I have discovered two issues with the lock manager that I need help[B > with.  Below is a mainprog which acquires an exclusive lock, andG > registers an ast to be delivered when the process is blocking anotherJA > process from getting the same lock.  It then goes in to a loop,s2 > hibernating, and re-hibernating whenever awoken. >:E > Process #1 runs this mainprog, acquiring the lock, then hibernates:x >s > Getting exclusive lock > Got exclusive lock > going in to hibernationg >h >e& > A second process then does the same: >o > Getting exclusive lock >  > 1 > And the AST is delievered to the first process:a >m > blocking ast calledt > awakeo > going in to hibernationy >e >m' > A *third* process then does the same:  >  > Getting exclusive lock >  > 4 > But the AST in the first process is not delivered. > B > My first question is, why is the AST only delivered to the firstG > process once?  The documentation says "When the lock prevents another F > lock from being granted, the blocking routine is delivered as an ASTC > to the process."  It says nothing about this only hapenning once.r >cB > My second question is, why does the first process ever wake fromC > hibernation?  When the ast is delivered, it should only wake from F > hibernation if I call sys$wake.  Even if I leave the body of the astG > empty, it still wakes up from hibernation.  Shouldn't this go back int) > to hibernation, unless I call sys$wake?- >-  K That's just the way it works, you're only notified once.  If you want to bemH notified again, convert the lock from EX to EX. However, if process 2 is: still waiting for the lock, you'll get the AST right away.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 09:32:52 -0800d1 From: usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer)e+ Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking asts < Message-ID: <477e0934.0212030932.de084d0@posting.google.com>  v usenet_cpp@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) wrote in message news:<31c49f0d.0212021850.45a7dee9@posting.google.com>...B > My second question is, why does the first process ever wake fromC > hibernation?  When the ast is delivered, it should only wake from3F > hibernation if I call sys$wake.  Even if I leave the body of the astG > empty, it still wakes up from hibernation.  Shouldn't this go back ini) > to hibernation, unless I call sys$wake?e >     B I should also point out that removing the printf from the AST, andF making the AST completely empty, still causes the process to wake from hibernation.  Why?  
 joshua lehreru factset research systems   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 10:29:34 -0800e From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM)p+ Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking asts < Message-ID: <9d337b47.0212031029.ea1ce5b@posting.google.com>  B > My first question is, why is the AST only delivered to the firstG > process once?  The documentation says "When the lock prevents anotherrF > lock from being granted, the blocking routine is delivered as an ASTC > to the process."  It says nothing about this only hapenning once.m  E AFAIK, for any system call that queues an AST, the AST is queued only C once.  Once it is delivered, one needs to re-queue it.  This may benE done from within the AST itself, to easily reach the recurring effecto you appear to be looking for.e   > B > My second question is, why does the first process ever wake fromC > hibernation?  When the ast is delivered, it should only wake frombF > hibernation if I call sys$wake.  Even if I leave the body of the astG > empty, it still wakes up from hibernation.  Shouldn't this go back ing) > to hibernation, unless I call sys$wake?e >   ; Out of the System Services Reference manual, for SYS$HIBER:a  F --> An AST can interrupt the wait state caused by $HIBER if the accessB mode at which the AST is to execute is equal to or more privilegedD than the access mode from which the hibernate request was issued and4 the process is enabled for ASTs at that access mode.       -- OHM   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 21:59:34 GMTu" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG( Subject: Re: Manipulating the call stack0 Message-ID: <00A17DAC.AA029018@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <99c3a525.0212021348.3c98b870@posting.google.com>, aaron.d.mullens@lmco.com (Aaron) writes:1 >I am trying to initialize the stack on an Alpha.1 >v- >1) I walk the stack and find the initial FP.r8 >2) I set the current FP to the value of the initial FP. >c> >I cannot figure out how to change the current FP to the value; >contained in the initial FP.  I have been playing with thed   	LDQ	R29,<initial FP>w   would seem to work.A    F >PUT_INVO_REGISTERS function but I have not been able to make it work. >=B >First I need to know if this is the way to initialize a stack and7 >second I need a hint of how I would go about doing it.6  K I doubt that you will find much success using the LIB$<invocation_context> kK routines.  If you really need to diddle about with the Alpha stack, Macro64=K is the way to do it.  You'd really better be intimate with the OpenVMS cal-1@ ling standard if you're going to be playing around on the stack. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             -5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:49:18 -0500l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: More moves out of north america/ Message-ID: <3DEBC747.BD79DBB7@vl.videotron.ca>p   ##,   U.S. Approves IBM-Hitachi Hard Drive Deal !  Reuters - Mon Dec 2,10:12 AM ET aF  The U.S. Federal Trade Commission has approved International BusinessJ Machines Corp.'s (IBM.N) $2.05 billion sale of most of its hard-disk drive= assets to Japan's Hitachi Ltd, the companies said on Monday.   ##  L I am of the opinion that the fate of commodity computing will follow that ofC television sets and stereos: move offshore for cheap manufacturing.t  M I am really not sure that HP can compete against asia on wintel junk, as well 1 a low cost printers and cameras in the long term.i  H My question mark goes to Dell. Would their business  model allow them toK compete head to head against Sony ? Sony already has an extensive worldwide K distribution network for all its gear from walkmans to expensive TV sets aseL well as professional video equipment. Adding computers to that network would* be a natural thing. Dell can't match that.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 16:27:05 GMTw3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: MVII Diag Maint TK50s0 Message-ID: <asim0p$pq3$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  M my TZ30 crashed with a TK50 in it. I got the drive replaced but I had to opennM the drive in order to save my cartridge. Now I have several hundred meters of$K uncoiled tape. Bevor I start to save this mess: is there anybody willing totG borrow me the MicroVAXII Diagnostic Maintenance TK50 so that I can makee- a copy? Digital's part number is AQ-GM5AH-DN.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmannr  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 08:13:56 -0800 5 From: oliver.becker@alba-software.com (Oliver becker)aC Subject: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003n= Message-ID: <e8a0f3ac.0212030813.4e37d796@posting.google.com>o  A Alba Software have some new exciting OpenVMS contract development E positions starting Q1 2003, predominantly based in continental Europe ) - Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich.t  ? We are interested in contractors with the the following skills;n  # Analyst Programmers/Developers witho   OpenVMSa SQLe C /C++ DCL  Oracle Rdb - optionale  B As these are contract positions we can only submit candidates with current EU work permits.  % For more information, please contact;f  
 Oliver Beckerh
 Alba Softwaret oliver.becker@alba-software.comh (UK) +44 (0)20 7643 2211   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 08:33:41 -0800m5 From: oliver.becker@alba-software.com (Oliver becker)hC Subject: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003r= Message-ID: <e8a0f3ac.0212030833.36821826@posting.google.com>   A Alba Software have some new exciting OpenVMS contract development.E positions starting Q1 2003, predominantly based in continental Europep) - Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich.w  ? We are interested in contractors with the the following skills;l  # Analyst Programmers/Developers with-   OpenVMS- SQL- C /C++ DCL, Oracle Rdb - optional8  B As these are contract positions we can only submit candidates with current EU work permits.  % For more information, please contact;   
 Oliver BeckerM
 Alba SoftwareF oliver.becker@alba-software.comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 10:06:36 +0100AE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>r# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippings+ Message-ID: <3DEC741C.962209F3@mediasec.de>e  B >         You can't get much further to the left than Ted Kennedy   B ROTFL. You really need to take a long trip to Europe to reset yourB political ccordinate system, Rob. Even the US does has some people _much_ farther left than him.m  5 Here, we'd probably put him just right of the center.g   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 18:36:07 GMTt9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>t# Subject: RE: OT: Hamburger Flippingt? Message-ID: <1b13a79e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>e  / In message <01C295AF.D40CA890@sulfer.icius.com>i/           Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:t  G > Ah, but I'm of the opinion that /every/ politician is a pillock. It'saG > got nothing to do with which side they lean to or what opinions their B > advisors say they should express today. I'm an equal opportunity > disparager. ;-)2  H "What do you do if nobody who wants to rule can possibly be allowed to?"   HHGTTG   >  > Shane0 >  > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] - > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:38 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como% > Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingi >  >  > Shane Smith wrote:J > > a non-citizen, shouldn't. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Bush isK > > Democrat or Republican, or which party's leans to which side; I neithergG > > keep track nor care. It's none of my business, it's not my country.n > J > Now Now mr Smith, everyone knows that everyone outside of the USA has anJ > opinion of Bush Jr. So, if you are "from outside the USA", then you have > thesJ > "from outside the USA" opinion of Bush-Jr. If you are american, then you > haveF > a variety of opinions on the guy in the white house (and/or ranch in
 > crawford5 > texas). Either way, you have an opinon of the guy. e > B > I think it would be very hard NOT to have an opinion of Bush Jr.   -- b
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:50:56 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingo2 Message-ID: <PCSdnYsEm-EhSHagXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:sNlHRbJFmlBy@eisner.encompasserve.org... ? > In article <3DEB60A3.6DA163C3@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt % <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:d > > Marty Kuhrt wrote: > >cF > >> Having looked at the thread and Atlant's take on it, I read it asE > >> Atlant admitting that the poor quality of the education that thegE > >> schools are providing in US _are_ a problem created by the Left.  > >t > > I admit no such thing. > >y7 > > It isn't the left that's defunding public education/4 > > as rapidly as possible in favor of private (read > > "religious") education.. > >c >h; > Actually.... the correct term and one that is just lovelyu > to use is "choice."   I Hmmm.  You folks seem to approve of choice when you can twist the term to L suit your objectives, but far less so when it does not (e.g., 'pro choice').  I In the case of public education, the problems with your 'choice' approacheJ are  1) that the 'choice' is highly dependent upon what private facilitiesG just happen to be within reach of people dissatisfied with their publiceC schools (i.e., it promotes inequality of educational opportunity byeF geographical location, unlike a solution which *fixes* the problems inK public schools),  2) that in cases where there *are* alternatives to choosesB those alternatives often promote a religious agenda that it is notK appropriate for the State to fund (and furthermore may place parents in the I awkward position of having to choose between a public school they feel iseL sub-standard and an alternative that preaches rubbish that they and/or theirJ children may find offensive),  3) that in many cases the vouchers providedL do not cover the entire cost of alternative education, thus subsidizing onlyJ those parents who can afford to cough up the difference (i.e., a decidedlyJ regressive subsidy),  4) that diverting public funds away from (admittedlyH sometimes problematic) public schools helps perpetuate their problems byI ensuring that they will not have sufficient resources to improve, and  5)nH that providing a State-sponsored escape for parents who are dissatisfiedK with the state of their local public schools removes motivation for them tosB step up to the plate and demand that they be improved (effectively@ relegating the remaining students to the trash-heap of society).  I Public education in the U.S. is the result of the belief that an educated:B public is critical to the successful function of a democracy.  TheK alternative to such public education is private education (i.e., abandoningsK that belief and leaving education to those who can afford it), not the kindUJ of goulash conservatives promote as 'choice' but which in fact leaves veryI little choice at all for a very large portion of those who need help (andnJ subsidizes many who would otherwise - very appropriately - have to pay theL freight themselves if they wished to indulge their religious fetishes and/or upper-class fantasies).u  .   There is an excellent overview of WashingtonA > D.C.'s chances of getting choice (following in the footsteps ofu< > successful programs in Cleveland and Milwaukee) in today's? > Wall Street.. you must be a subscriber and being a subscriber 
 > isn't free:r >eL > http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1038779399344240073,00.html?mod=opinion >s( > Since the Supreme Court paved the way,  J Laying that asphalt right over the fundamental principals of supporting anG educated populace and separating Church and State that have stood us in . rather good stead for well over two centuries.    and Washington D.C.'sB > schools are failing left and right, (one detail from the articleD > shows that D.C.'s math testing shows juniors in highschool failingB > below national testing standards to the tune of 72%) and ClintonC > was the obstacle last time this was up (he vetoed Washington D.C.a > school choice bill)   H And rightly so:  the solution is to fix the schools, not to abandon them% (and the students remaining in them).   $  .. You see there is a great deal of< > hypocrisy here.  Chelsea went to one of the finest private+ > schools in D.C. as do Senator's children.E  H Bullshit.  You don't by choice leave your children in a burning buildingL just because you don't have the water to extinguish the blaze right now, butE that doesn't mean that you're not working to fix the problem as well.t     It is certain Bush willjC > sign it to give D.C students a fair chance at a better education.+ >02 > Here is a link to a D.C. school choice overview: >w6 > http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020731-48349993.htm   Doesn't work for me.   >iI > We see a pattern early on.  Choice is acceptable in failing situations,   2 Not for me, it isn't, for the reasons noted above.  B > but we wouldn't dare make that across the board nationwide.  Not > for now... but some day.   Nope.a  ,   After all, success does make things easier- > to push or foist on us poor dumb Amerikans.   E Unfortunately, the failure of public schools to teach the elements ofcK critical analysis has apparently dumbed down the majority of the populationlL sufficiently that they can no longer reason competently about this and otherF such matters:  give them an ill-advised and half-baked 'solution' thatI appears to meet some of their immediate concerns, and they'll vote for it F without bothering to understand the drawbacks even if someone tries to
 present them.   L There are a lot of reasons for this failure, but far from all of them can beC laid at the the liberals' door.  Local control of public schools byeK Neanderthals both insistent on meddling with what's taught and reluctant to:I provide the salaries that would attract teachers motivated to work aroundaK such shit and still educate the children plays a major part:  wresting awayoG that control would allow mediocre teachers (and of course by definitionwL that's the median quality level) to work unmolested with effective materialsB even if salaries remained low, as well as avoid the worst cases ofI under-funding due to local miserliness (or actual penury).  Standards foraK teachers would also help weed out the most incompetent and/or motivate them J to improve:  there's some justification for criticizing the liberal recordH in this area, but I suspect that a well-constructed mechanism would meetK with the approval of the majority of teachers even if their unions remainedeF skeptical.  And some fault likely can be traced back to some decidedlyK fuzzy-headed concepts of education back in the '60s:  a lot of well-meaninglI and forward-thinking people lost sight of the fact that while a brilliantLL teacher can indeed foster remarkable growth and learning in children withoutJ much structure, most real-world teachers can't (at least not without closeH supervision) - and I'll give conservatives full credit for understandingK this a lot better than liberals did back then (though those 'conservatives'mL were in many ways very different from those who call themselves such today).   >e > >u/ > > I lay the blame for the decline in Americant3 > > academic performance squarely where it belongs:a3 > > The rise of anti-intelectualism and the fall ofr1 > > parental rsponsibility. "American" is rapidlye0 > > becoming equivalent to "Ignoranus, and proud > > of it!"o  
 Well said.   > >i >l > Nonsense.   
 No, truth.  7   Blame it on the likes of Ted Kennedy and his ilk thata8 > support a monopoly that is unmotivated and entrenched.  H There's some truth in that as well, as I suggested above.  While there'sL something about pandering to teachers that doesn't bother me *quite* as muchL as pandering to business interests, both activities hurt the public that ourI politicians are supposed to be serving and they deserve criticism for it..     Fortunately,H > wiser folks are saying enough and handing out vouchers to kids trapped > in failing schools.s  J Those aren't 'wiser' folks, they're folks who have a different agenda that% doesn't care about those left behind.-   >  Good for them.(  7 But bad for many others, and for the system as a whole.    >-9 > > No, sorry, I don't admit that the failure of American ' > > education is the fault of the left.l >dE > Ummm... then why would Ted Kennedy be pushing legislation to stiflei* > school choice (see Wall Street article)?  K Because there's excellent reason to:  the fact that some of his stances maye2 be questionable in no way means that they all are.     Can you get any further left > than Ted Kennedy?r  L Typical right-wing asshole approach:  if you don't have a credible argument,F demonize the opposition - the American public's too dumb to notice the difference.    >DD > http://www.schoolreport.com/schoolreport/articles/oppose_10_00.htm  J Now, from your comment above I would have expected an article in which TedK Kennedy actually played some significant role, or at least one in which his8J comments were some of the more extreme.  In fact, however, the comment youH quote below (the only substantive mention of him in a moderately lengthyL article) was one of the most moderate and defensible (and I acknowledge that9 some of the purported quotes from others seemed less so).f   >eD > "Columnist Molly Ivins described voucher supporters as "fruitcakes
 unlimited,L > flat-earthers, creationists..." North Carolina Gov. Jim Hunt said vouchers are-D > like "leeches." Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA) said "Republicans in CongressJ > should stop acting like plantation masters and start treating the people ofJ > D.C. with the respect they deserve," when school choice was proposed for the2I > District. He has it backward. Plantation masters decide for others, hisC view ofSI > government's role. Those who respect people favor them making their own 
 > decisions."n >  > [snip] > K > Sen. Patrick Daniel Moynihan (D-NY) He favored school choice "long beforeI itE > was either conservative or liberal," and, "if it prevails only as ayC > conservative cause, it will have been a great failure of Americans > liberalism..." >t >oA > How bout that?  Seems the conservatives have "school choice" asdD > a cause and subsequently it is *another* great failure of American
 > liberalism.b  K You should note that the word 'voucher' does not appear in the above quote,oK making it unclear whether Moynihan was supporting the approach you favor or J simply choice *within* the public system to allow better public schools toJ blossom while inferior ones withered (something I have no problem with, as1 it has none of the drawbacks I noted previously).t  I In a great many cases where liberals have supported vouchers, it has beenlH because their own local constituency had a major problem and the voucherL approach appeared to offer a quick fix regardless of its problems in a widerL sense.  While local politicians who find themselves in such binds and can beE excused for such actions (just as people with the means to send their F children to private schools can be excused for doing so), it in no wayJ implies that those actions constitute a proper solution rather than a very4 temporary band-aid to be used only in extreme cases.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:26:32 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG# Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping20 Message-ID: <00A17DB0.6E21DB06@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <PCSdnYsEm-EhSHagXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:0
 >{...snip...}eI >And rightly so:  the solution is to fix the schools, not to abandon themg& >(and the students remaining in them).  E Yes!  And the first step is to acknowledge that there *are* problems.iF Of course, stating such makes one a right-winger.  I'm vocal about theF state of education on my state because I *am* concerned and interestedF in my children and their education.  Unfortunately, I do not believe aF huge sum of money directed at education will fix it.  More and more isF spent each year and the results are lackluster in comparison.  Unions,F selfish and servile attitudes, tenure and other warts on the educationE system need to be admonished.  Schools need to refocus back to/on ther
 schooling!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:57:44 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flippingr2 Message-ID: <bLucncdUUo_tbnagXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A17DB0.6E21DB06@SendSpamHere.ORG...@ > In article <PCSdnYsEm-EhSHagXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >{...snip...} K > >And rightly so:  the solution is to fix the schools, not to abandon themn( > >(and the students remaining in them). > G > Yes!  And the first step is to acknowledge that there *are* problems. 3 > Of course, stating such makes one a right-winger.   I I'm not sure I can recall the last time someone called me a right-winger.oL I'd be inclined to take offense, except that you're obviously just confused:F there are plenty of liberals more than ready to acknowledge that majorE problems exist (in fact I'd challenge you to find one who thinks most-F inner-city schools are just hunky-dory) and eager to work to fix them.     I'm vocal about theoH > state of education on my state because I *am* concerned and interestedH > in my children and their education.  Unfortunately, I do not believe a6 > huge sum of money directed at education will fix it.  B Nor do I:  while there are plenty of cases in which teacher pay isJ questionably adequate to obtain anything like the quality we'd like, thereJ should be solutions that could help the existing teacher base function far5 more effectively with minimal additional expenditure.h  E As I said, that's not likely to occur with local Neanderthals runningaL things.  Nor do I necessarily think an organization like the NEA is the bestK repository for our trust in this matter:  I'd like to see it given the kindbJ of emphasis that is currently being misdirected toward 'homeland security'J (since the future of a large percentage of our children seems likely to be= much more important than any terrorist activity that existingA@ law-enforcement organizations couldn't handle if *they* were runD competently), with the same kind of high-level, competent think-tank organized to study it.  F I don't know how our education costs compare with other countries:  ifI they're a great deal higher (relative to our general standard of living),tH then we may be able to learn from them.  And while decent education willA never be really cheap, it will always be an excellent investment.t     More and more is? > spent each year and the results are lackluster in comparison.n  D While I'd like to see actual figures to back up that claim, the realI question is how effectively that money is being spent.  For example, it's)H really easy to pour money down temporary holes forever rather than spendI just a bit more and patch them to end the problems once and for all - andoE the propensity for small-town governments to do this kind of thing is B legendary (though larger communities aren't at all immune either).  	   Unions,hH > selfish and servile attitudes, tenure and other warts on the education > system need to be admonished.s  G Methinks you might have meant 'abolished'.  If so, that's illegal in atgK least the first case (the rights of workers to organize are well-protected,AK and rightly so).  I have no argument against abolishing tenure, however, ascH long as a reliable process exists to ensure that people aren't dismissedI without good cause.  Selfishness is a bit more difficult to eliminate, so)L the usual remedy is to structure the system such that it does not hold undueA influence.  I'm not sure what you meant in reference to servilitycD (especially as lack of servility is what often gets good teachers in	 trouble).h  (   Schools need to refocus back to/on the > schooling!  G Actually, I think most teachers still try to do that, though not always = effectively.  The administration, however, is another matter.t   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:14:14 -07001 From: "Deane Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net>e Subject: Re: Pathworks and IPC$M0 Message-ID: <uHOdnQouo4NFenGgXTWcpg@comcast.com>   Hello I We are using Pathworks to share folders on the VMS side. The user changediE the password for the domain which is still NT 4.0. After changing thewB password the windows 98 system was reboot (for what I donot know).2 When the 98 system tried to connect to some of the8 shared folders the first error was unkown user/password.6 We clicked on cancel to get by that message and decide3 to go into network neighbor and double click on onen4 of the VMS nodes running 6.0. Thats when the message7 you must supply a password for this connection pops up.T3 Nothing was changed on the VMS side. The only thingcI that was changed was the password for the PDC. Every node that is running,I 6.0 now refuses connections. Even tired going to the dos prompt and usingo net use \\nounix\opsfilesnE Still no luck.The 5.0 systems used the same password/users etc and not problem. Hope this clearsi up the problem a little.@ "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message) news:uuo38te65o2f06@corp.supernews.com...  >c> > "Deane Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> wrote in message, > news:5RqdnTz5RJRmOXagXTWcpA@comcast.com... > > Systems:. > > VMS 7.3 and Pathworks Advanced Server 6.0D+ > > VMS 7.3 and  Pathworks Lan Manager 5.0Ep* > > NT 4..0/Windows 2000 Pro/Windows 98SR2 > > Problem:1 > > Changed the password for users on the NT/2000o- > > systems and now Pathworks comes back withd7 > > the "You must supply a password for this connectiong > > \\NOUNIX\IPC$. >oB > You've really been too vague in your description of the problem. >rI > What, exactly, were you doing that resulted in the error message above?c1 > What client were you using (all of the above?)? L > What do you mean by changed the password?  Are these domain passwords?  IsK > every machine in the same domain?  What is the domain configuration, what  is' > the role of the servers listed above.  >eD > What is different now, as compared to before?  Were you using sameH > username/password pairs across the various servers and now you aren't? >t6 > > Connecting to a 5.0E system everything works okay. >nG > 5.0E is very, very old,  not even Y2K ready, but, I guess you haven't K > noticed that ;^).  If you can get your hands on the binaries, there is no 7 > additional licensing charge to upgrade to V5.0F-ECO2.0 >e5 > > We tried every password and even used some of theGI > > "hacks" , but nothing works. Would it be easy to downgrade the 6.0 toB then > > 5.0. >>J > There was a rollback capability built into V6, but, it escapes me at theF > moment how to use it.  Better check the install guide (its online at > openvms.comapq.com)  >t
 > Regards, >w > Brad McCuskerm > OpenVMS Engineeringa > Nashua NH, USA >  >r
 > > Thanks > >o > >e > >e > >n >e >o   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:48:00 +0000 (UTC). From: "Sanface Software" <sanface@sanface.com> Subject: PLUG: txt2pdf 6.2H Message-ID: <e4c15f6632a43ec4ad553e57d9bdb893.93245@mygate.mailgate.org>  / We would like to announce txt2pdf 6.2 version. o# http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.htmlsE txt2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful PERL5 scriptAH that converts text files to PDF format files, so you can use it in every8 operating systems supported by PERL5, including OpenVMS.; It's simple to design background like invoices, orders etc.e) Here nice examples made using txt2pdf PROu- http://www.sanface.com/pdf/Purchase_Order.pdfy& http://www.sanface.com/pdf/invoice.pdf$ http://www.sanface.com/pdf/hfmus.pdf) http://www.sanface.com/pdf/heraldbill.pdfd   What's new in this version   Chinese font support.    Test txt2pdf 6.2!t6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html     -- t8 Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:36:05 +0100 (MET)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>. Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance6 Message-ID: <200212030836.JAA12365@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  E thanks for all the informations and hints. Matt's information to tuneuC the system (sysconfig -r) could not be realized, because we do havenH only one Alpha with TCPIP 5.1. All other are UCX4.2 ECO1. But increasing. the buffersize did work. Here are the results:  % AMP9$ mcr bsrv_u1:[win.tmp]ttcp -r -s-C =09ttcp-r: buflen=3D8192, nbuf=3D2048, align=3D16384/0, port=3D5001"' =09ttcp-r: sockbufsize=3D4096,  # tcp #a" =09ttcp-r: accept from 172.20.42.8G =09ttcp-r: 16777216 bytes in 3.704 real seconds =3D 4423.489 KB/sec +++rF =09ttcp-r: 8402 I/O calls, msec/call =3D 0.451, calls/sec =3D 2268.442* =09ttcp-r: 0.630user 0.000sys 0:03real 17%* AMP8$ mcr bsrv_u1:[win.tmp]ttcp -t -s amp9C =09ttcp-t: buflen=3D8192, nbuf=3D2048, align=3D16384/0, port=3D5001 / =09ttcp-t: sockbufsize=3D4096,  # tcp -> amp9 #  =09ttcp-t: connectG =09ttcp-t: 16777216 bytes in 3.704 real seconds =3D 4423.487 KB/sec +++iE =09ttcp-t: 2048 I/O calls, msec/call =3D 1.852, calls/sec =3D 552.936h* =09ttcp-t: 0.410user 0.000sys 0:03real 11% =09x9 AMP9$ mcr bsrv_u1:[win.tmp]ttcp -l 65535 -b 1048576 -r -snD =09ttcp-r: buflen=3D65535, nbuf=3D2048, align=3D16384/0, port=3D5001, =09ttcp-r:=0Dsockbufsize=3D1048576,  # tcp #" =09ttcp-r: accept from 172.20.42.8I =09ttcp-r: 134215680 bytes in 3.505 real seconds =3D 37395.875 KB/sec +++eF =09ttcp-r: 3628 I/O calls, msec/call =3D 0.989, calls/sec =3D 1035.113* =09ttcp-r: 2.500user 0.000sys 0:03real 71%> AMP8$ mcr bsrv_u1:[win.tmp]ttcp -l 65535 -b 1048576 -t -s amp9D =09ttcp-t: buflen=3D65535, nbuf=3D2048, align=3D16384/0, port=3D50014 =09ttcp-t:=0Dsockbufsize=3D1048576,  # tcp -> amp9 # =09ttcp-t: connectI =09ttcp-t: 134215680 bytes in 3.503 real seconds =3D 37419.641 KB/sec +++ E =09ttcp-t: 2048 I/O calls, msec/call =3D 1.751, calls/sec =3D 584.691i* =09ttcp-t: 2.330user 0.000sys 0:03real 66%  H As you could see, the waste performance of 4.4MB/s will increrase to theL poor performance of 37.4MB/s. This value is near by the DTSEND value (32MB)= . I The CPU will be used about 20% at maximum. All system resources are largeyF enaugh to fit the request without bottleneck. The next test: switch to5 switch performance I will test later, if I have time.f  # TIA and best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:40:25 GMT-9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>mI Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)n? Message-ID: <4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>g  < In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>+           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:e   > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...@ > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com>/ > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:t > >  > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<9c688a9b4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>... > > > > Hi,r > > > > M > > > > OK, I'll try to remember as much as possible - I worked with an SW300 Q > > > > (RaidArray 450) which uses the same controllers, but with a different bus- > > > > configuration. > > > 6 > > > Lot of thanks, that you investige in my Problem. > > >  > > > > ; > > > > I don't have access to the hardware or manuals now.e > > > >  > > > 3 > > > I have access to the manuals, (Service Guide)l > > >  > >  > > < huge snip> > >  > > > > L > > > > Sorry I can't point to a definite cause. I suspect your system has aP > > > > different configuration to the one I used, for example, removable cache. > > > >  > > > > Good luck, > > > >  > > > > Alan > > > J > > > i can send you a picture of the server showing how it is configured. > > > my question is:. > > > Q > > > suppose the batteries are damaged or flat, does this prevent the controller  > > > to initialise correctly ?  > > >  n > > > thanks for the answers.s > > N > > Since the system behaves the same with terminal disconnected (that bit wasP > > snipped), I suspect the batteries. I don't know whether a faulty battery can? > > prevent the controller from booting, but it seems possible.a > > H > > If not that, then it would seem that you have the same fault on bothL > > controllers, which seems somewhat unlikely. (Unless, as I have suggestedO > > before) a faulty terminal has been connected to each controller in turn andt > > damaged it.) > >  > N > the terminal i connected to is a VT500 with 3 Serial ports, 2 are connected < > (1 to the alpha server, the other to the HSZ serial port.)O > the first time i connected the terminal, only the server console gave output.@3 > How can a faulty terminal damage the controller ?s  L RS232 is pretty tolerant of faults - each pin should be able to tolerate +/-G 35 volts wrt signal ground, without damage. However RS423, used on morewF recent equipment, has lower voltages, normally +/- 5v. I just wonderedK whether a faulty terminal might be sending an excessive voltage on one pin, L breaking through the input protection, and damaging a chip on the controllerK board. It is unlikely, but there aren't many things that would stop both ofQ your controllers from booting.   > P > > (You also asked about the output during boot - I can't remember the details,L > > but it was plain text, similar to that output by terminal servers duringM > > boot. It sounds as though your controllers are failing a self test befored/ > > the point where they start to output text.)k > >  >  > that is right. > N > > Oh, another thought. The PCMCIA memory cards contain the operating system.P > > The highest version for HSZ50 wqs V5.7. (I hope I remembered this right. I'mJ > > fairly sure we ran 5.4 for a long time, then 5.7.) Have you got higher2 > > versions? If so, you could get a boot failure. > >  > M > the hsof version is 5.1, i don't know if changing the PCMCIA card, changes - > this behaviour.e  D This is the version in the PCMCIA card, and should be fine for those controllersr   >  > so the issues are: > 6 > i will change the connection cable, and try another.G > if it persists, then it can be either the battery or the PCMCIA card.  > are there another thoughts ?  < I don't think it's PCMCIA - they are an appropriate version.   > seeing the Service manual:> > the LED fault code it get, tells me to reset the controller.. > other LED codes tells, to change the module.  H It's trying to tell you both modules are faults. I hope not, and I can't  really see why both should fail.  D > what i want to know is if the complete controller card is damaged.0 > i hope no, because i have no service contract.  J You didn't say where the equipment came from - a really long shot would beE mains voltage differences, i.e. 110 / 230 volt. However a lot of thisyG equipment is auto-sensing. I don't know about the shelf power supplies.a   Getting desperate now...   Alan   -- e
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:39:50 +01007 From: "Wojciech Czaplinski" <mgr_sianko@poczta.onet.pl>i, Subject: Problem with monitor files playback' Message-ID: <asij3a$14e$1@news2.tpi.pl>$  
 Hello All,J The problem looks like this: I monitored  Alpha GS160 box running VMS 7.3,G output was directed to the files. Now I need to playback those files onI; Alpha 1200 running the same OS version. After command like:t  ' $ monitor system/all  /input=FILE.DAT;3g   I get following error:  8 %MONITOR-E-PREMEOF, premature end-of-file on /INPUT file  . I'm stuck and I'll be thankful for any advise.   greetings - Wojtek  K P.S. On the monitored machine I was able to do monitor playback without any+) problems, so the files are not corrupted.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:56:55 +0000 ( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>0 Subject: Re: Problem with monitor files playback* Message-ID: <3DECD447.3040102@bigfoot.com>   Wojciech Czaplinski wrote:   >Hello All,-K >The problem looks like this: I monitored  Alpha GS160 box running VMS 7.3,-H >output was directed to the files. Now I need to playback those files on< >Alpha 1200 running the same OS version. After command like: > ( >$ monitor system/all  /input=FILE.DAT;3 >n >I get following error:2 >39 >%MONITOR-E-PREMEOF, premature end-of-file on /INPUT filem >e/ >I'm stuck and I'll be thankful for any advise.n >t >greetings - Wojtekm >nL >P.S. On the monitored machine I was able to do monitor playback without any* >problems, so the files are not corrupted. >  >l >    >lG It might be usefull to post the output from a $Dir/full of the file on C= both systems in case the file got trashed when you copied it.e     --  ( Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  , Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:09:03 -0500+2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: Province code change in Canadal. Message-ID: <3DECBAFF.B8454C8D@mindspring.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:  B > So how do Americans feel about having three official languages - > English, Spanish and French?   Oui!  < I've thought for quite some time that the New England states< would be far more at home in the Canadian confederation than< we are in the United States. (Well, excepting New Hampshire,, which wants to just be a world unto itself.)   Atlant   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:40:16 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>+ Subject: RE: Province code change in Canadat0 Message-ID: <01C29AB0.048630E0@sulfer.icius.com>  , I'm not sure they're ready to learn English.   Shanea   -----Original Message-----, From: Main, Kerry [mailto:Kerry.Main@hp.com]' Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 6:00 PM0 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-+ Subject: RE: Province code change in Canadar      . >>> You may have to battle the Aztlaners ..<<<  @ So how do Americans feel about having three official languages - English, Spanish and French?   [Sorry, way OT .. ]    :-) :-)e   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services_ Voice: 613-592-4660m Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)-       -----Original Message-----9 From: Jerry Leslie [mailto:LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM] e Sent: December 2, 2002 10:10 PMg To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1+ Subject: Re: Province code change in Canada.    & Main, Kerry (Kerry.Main@hp.com) wrote: :  : C : >>> And reasonably priced production houses, for importing TV and' Moviee : jobs from Hollywood.<< : > : That's part of the secret plan .. Export the actors and beer commercialshG : and then slowly bring the TV and movie jobs back to Canada... Part ofl : their 5 year mission ... : : : Next step is to make the US the next province of Canada. : E : Any idea of what the province code for that new province should be?- :  : :-)F :   E You may have to battle the Aztlaners for parts of it currently known  C as California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and southern Colorado...H  H    http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2002/05-06-2002/vo18no09_aztlan.htm;    The New American - Aztlan and Amalgamation - May 6, 2002t  1                          "Aztlan and Amalgamation 1                           by William Norman Griggy    nD    The Mexican government, radical Chicano separatists, and even the BushB    administration are all seeking to open the U.S.-Mexican border.    mG      Mexico is a friend of America. Mexico is our neighbor. And we wantnG      our neighbors to succeed. We want our neighbors to do well.... AndnH      that's why it's so important for us to tear down barriers and walls7      that might separate Mexico from the United States.       dH             -- President George W. Bush, address to the Hispanic ChamberH                    of Commerce, Albuquerque, New Mexico, August 15, 2001      -E    While American troops engage al-Qaeda terrorist cells in far-flung F    battlefields across Asia and our military leadership prepares for aC    Gulf War encore against Iraq, our "friend" and "neighbor" to thec SouthrD    is relentlessly invading our homeland. The Mexican government andH    radical "Chicano" groups in this country are pursuing the dream of LaF    Reconquista -- the "re-conquest" of the southwestern United States.     G    "More than a century after the U.S. invasion of Mexico that resulteddH    in the annexation of Texas, Mexicans are `reoccupying' the territory,F    but through less violent means and for different reasons," reportedG    Monica Mendel of TheNewsMexico.com news service on March 25th. "MostcD    of these immigrants live in border states like California, Texas,D    Arizona, and New Mexico, the same ones Mexico lost when PresidentB    Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna signed an agreement to end the U.S.F    invasion in 1848 by ceding 2.5 million square kilometers of Mexican#    territory to the United States."n    .;    The provocative term "reoccupation" was not coined by anoF    anti-immigration activist. Rather, it was used in an official studyG    published by the Mexican government's National Council on Population E    (Conapo). Mendel writes: "The `reoccupation' of this territory hasuF    been slow but steady, and the number of immigrants is growing everyC    year." Citing Conapo's findings, Mendel predicts that during thesG    six-year reign of incumbent Mexican President Vicente Fox, ending inoG    2006, "two million Mexicans will enter the United States at the rate &    of approximately 380,000 per year."    wF    By publishing the Conapo study, the Mexican government has formallyE    embraced the concept of "demographic warfare" -- re-conquering therH    southwestern United States through unchecked illegal immigration. ButE    it has long been an open secret that Mexico takes advantage of ouruG    porous southern border to export its "surplus poverty" and re-imposei!    control over our southwest..."y    )7    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/1754/mecha.htmi    History of M.E.Ch.A.c    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailn   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 23:42:28 -0800s7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)s/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?d= Message-ID: <8a646952.0212022342.702d563c@posting.google.com>i  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3DE742BD.C96E75CB@aaa.com>...t > Hi. / > Is there any reason to use MMS from Compaq/HPh > instead of the free MMK ?m/ > Is there anything MMS can do that MMK can't ?n >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.,  	 Jan-Erik,   A I can't speak for MMK. However, I have design, setup, and managedeE DCL-CMS-MMS environment for Development, testing, production support,lD and production. I found MMS with CMS to be very powerful tools. ThisF was for Navistar, Owen Corning, and Apple.  I believe the DECset tools will be around for some time.h   Daryl Jonesy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 20:39:32 +1100u1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> / Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?t, Message-ID: <3DEC7BD4.5060706@tg.nsw.gov.au>  4   Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message # news:<3DE742BD.C96E75CB@aaa.com>...i   >Hi.. >Is there any reason to use MMS from Compaq/HP >instead of the free MMK ?. >Is there anything MMS can do that MMK can't ? >a >Jan-Erik Sderholm.  G No offense to the author(s) -- I believe Matt Madison -- of MMK, but I tH would always prefer to use the unified DECset environment.  But then my , main job is a software developer/maintainer.  F On one of our production machines, we had only bought a single DECset G license, not believing that much use would be made.  However, we found oD that a couple of our engineers regularly used description files for C rebuilds.  Since they did not use any other component of DECset, I tH installed MMK for them and they were quite happy.  It worked adequately 	 for them.l  B However, in my development environment I would not install MMK in D preference.  I need to ensure the compatability/integration between  MMS/CMS/DTM/SCA/LSE.  ? In summary, I have not had reason to fault MMK to be used with dA description files from, say, the Freeware CD.  But for a serious uI development environment, I would not like to risk  MMK being "behind the e1 times" with respect to the other DECset products.m     Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************e  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid pA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the s= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with mC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesn> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:25:39 +0100l9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?i' Message-ID: <3DEC6A83.524F9A50@aaa.com>r  ' Yes, the tools in DECset are just fine.l  6 In this particular case, my client is *only* using the? MMS part of DECset. No CMS. (They are paying 6.000 USD/year for 5 support and lic upd on the full DECset toolset :-) ).s  ; Now, one can select to license and buy support for only thel9 MMS part, or select to use MMK instead. I think that I'llo6 tell my client to test there build scripts with MMK...  6 Nothing so far that says that MMK wouldn't work, apart. from the CMS support that we don't use anyway.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e     Daryl Jones wrote: > C > I can't speak for MMK. However, I have design, setup, and managed G > DCL-CMS-MMS environment for Development, testing, production support,oF > and production. I found MMS with CMS to be very powerful tools. ThisH > was for Navistar, Owen Corning, and Apple.  I believe the DECset tools > will be around for some time.t > 
 > Daryl Jonesw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 20:42:16 +1100 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>g/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?c, Message-ID: <3DEC7C78.7040106@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Daryl Jones wrote:W > Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3DE742BD.C96E75CB@aaa.com>...  >  >>Hi.l/ >>Is there any reason to use MMS from Compaq/HPe >>instead of the free MMK ?t/ >>Is there anything MMS can do that MMK can't ?e >> >>Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >  >  > Jan-Erik,e > C > I can't speak for MMK. However, I have design, setup, and managedeG > DCL-CMS-MMS environment for Development, testing, production support,eF > and production. I found MMS with CMS to be very powerful tools. ThisH > was for Navistar, Owen Corning, and Apple.  I believe the DECset tools > will be around for some time.a > 
 > Daryl Jones      Daryl,  F I certainly hope they will, since our org is supposed to be a quality D type place and our "methodology" of software development quality is  based totally on these tools.e   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************r  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseoB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid tA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the n= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with lC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usest> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************u   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:56:56 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>w/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?d; Message-ID: <01KPLAKR77DGA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  A > In summary, I have not had reason to fault MMK to be used with tC > description files from, say, the Freeware CD.  But for a serious  K > development environment, I would not like to risk  MMK being "behind the  3 > times" with respect to the other DECset products.   I While I agree with Paddy, to be fair of course one should point out that pG the primary motivation for MMK is to avoid buying a license, since MMS tH like all of DECset is a layered product, licensed separately.  While no C longer an issue for the hobbyist, and of course never an issue for i@ places where license costs are peanuts, I'm sure there are some I non-hobbyist places where the cost of an MMS license can't be justified, 2 thus MMK is an alternative.a  G I've used Matt Madison's NEWSRDR program for 10 years or so.  It seems lA to be quality software and Matt's always been helpful when I had n questions etc.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:52:30 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?y0 Message-ID: <00A17E29.6809A18A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <01KPLAKR77DGA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:sB >> In summary, I have not had reason to fault MMK to be used with D >> description files from, say, the Freeware CD.  But for a serious L >> development environment, I would not like to risk  MMK being "behind the 4 >> times" with respect to the other DECset products. >tJ >While I agree with Paddy, to be fair of course one should point out that H >the primary motivation for MMK is to avoid buying a license, since MMS I >like all of DECset is a layered product, licensed separately.  While no eD >longer an issue for the hobbyist, and of course never an issue for A >places where license costs are peanuts, I'm sure there are some lJ >non-hobbyist places where the cost of an MMS license can't be justified,  >thus MMK is an alternative.  K MMK has all of the features of MMS and then some.  So, it's more a questionl off MMS being behind the times.c    H >I've used Matt Madison's NEWSRDR program for 10 years or so.  It seems B >to be quality software and Matt's always been helpful when I had  >questions etc.    Same.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            m5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:12:53 +0100c9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?i' Message-ID: <3DECD805.C1478F61@aaa.com>t  5 I think i wrote that they are *only* using MMS out of 9 the DECset tool-set. Otherwise you're right, of course...i  	 Jan-Erik.s   Paddy O'Brien wrote: >  > H > No offense to the author(s) -- I believe Matt Madison -- of MMK, but I< > would always prefer to use the unified DECset environment.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 18:53:36 GMTo9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>e Subject: Re: Recursive Deletionn? Message-ID: <22ada89e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   ; In message <b096a4ee.0211281853.7a2c56d@posting.google.com>o9           spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:   ` > John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1021127203925.27197I-100000@Ives.egh.com>...* > > On 27 Nov 2002, Alan E. Feldman wrote: > >  > > > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KPDDC746WOA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...2 > > > > > $ delete [...]*.*;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*
 > > > > > > > > > > > to clear out the entire tree, including directories. > > > > B > > > > Is this behaviour "supported" or does it work "by chance"? > > >  > > > L > > > I believe it is supported, and it will work as long as the protections4 > > > allow the deletions. (On ODS-2 disks, anyway.) > > >  > > > Disclaimer: JMHO > > > Alan E. Feldmanh > > K > > Doesn't this work by repeating the delete until all files are gone fromcD > > all subdirectories, thus allowing the directories to be deleted? >  > Yes. > C > > If so, you need as many ",;*"'s tacked onto the end as you haveuI > > subdirectories below the directory you are trying to delete.  I thinktI > > even with ODS-2 on V7.2 and later, you can nest directories up to 255 P > > deep.  (Section 1.2.2 of V7.3 OpenVMS Guide to Extended File Specifications) > F > I work with VAXes running v6.1 and 6.2, so it works for that! I knewF > ODS-5 offers more directory levels than 8, but didn't know about theB > ODS-2 on V7.2 or later. So in those cases, it won't always work.  K ODS-2 has allowed 15 or 16 levels for a long time (VMS5?). The restrictions  were:   F Access below level 8 required a root logical name, followed by the 9th	 directoryh  H Backup only backed up the files with /IMAGE. (At some point, V6 I think,I this changed to the 7th and 8th levels, i.e. max depth changed from 16 too 15). y  G Selective restore from an image backup only restored one directory at ah* time (i.e. did not include subdirectories)  C It seemed to be there principally so Pathworks could provide deepere@ directories, and only if the server was specifically allowed to.  J My version of DELTREE was written to handle this - we were having problems# deleting user files when they left.h   Alan   -- t
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 18:56:08 GMTh9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>u8 Subject: Re: Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC Alpha? Message-ID: <79e8a89e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   < In message <8b58e65c.0211270019.1b4f4977@posting.google.com>6           serge.simon@internet.lu (Serge Simon) wrote:   > Hello, > I > We are currently looking for some experience in implementing the SetcimrI > interface (AspenTech) on a DEC Alpha platform AXP interfacing a Bailey a > Infi90 system.G > Although Setcim will run on that platform, we do not know if all the eJ > Setcim CIU libraries will run on that machine, we wonder if anybody has 2 > done similar setup on the Alpha platform before.J > The current application was setup in '95 and is running on a normal VAX.J > Intend is to use Setcim V4.8 on the Alpha machine. The system shall use & > the existing ICI01 serial interface. > D > Another possibility would be use of a product called "DECmigrate".F > DECmigrate translates OpenVMS VAX and ULTRIX RISC applications into @ > programs that run on Alpha. Regardless of the source language. > / > Maybe somebody has experience on that matter.a  K DecMigrate, also known as VEST (Vax Executable Symbolic Translator? approx)eI will translate VAX images created with VMS versions 5.0 to 5.4 inclusive,i7 unless it has changed since we did our Alpha migration.a   > ! > Thanx in advance for any reply:t	 > -Serge-    -- d
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:49:30 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>/8 Subject: RE: Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC AlphaT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D99A1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Adam,a  G >>> DECmigrate, also known as VEST (Vax Executable Symbolic Translator? F approx) will translate VAX images created with VMS versions 5.0 to 5.4E inclusive, unless it has changed since we did our Alpha migration.<<<s  , Yep, it has. New versions supported as well.  
 Reference:? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/omsva/omsva.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantd Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)c         -----Original Message-----C From: Alan Adams [mailto:alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk]=20d Sent: December 2, 2002 1:56 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma8 Subject: Re: Setcim -> ABB-Bailey interface on DEC Alpha    < In message <8b58e65c.0211270019.1b4f4977@posting.google.com>6           serge.simon@internet.lu (Serge Simon) wrote:   > Hello, >=20E > We are currently looking for some experience in implementing the=20nH > Setcim interface (AspenTech) on a DEC Alpha platform AXP interfacing a  H > Bailey Infi90 system. Although Setcim will run on that platform, we do  J > not know if all the Setcim CIU libraries will run on that machine, we=20H > wonder if anybody has done similar setup on the Alpha platform before.E > The current application was setup in '95 and is running on a normal  VAX.E > Intend is to use Setcim V4.8 on the Alpha machine. The system shallr use=20& > the existing ICI01 serial interface. >=20G > Another possibility would be use of a product called "DECmigrate".=20mH > DECmigrate translates OpenVMS VAX and ULTRIX RISC applications into=20@ > programs that run on Alpha. Regardless of the source language. >=20/ > Maybe somebody has experience on that matter.h  C DecMigrate, also known as VEST (Vax Executable Symbolic Translator? F approx) will translate VAX images created with VMS versions 5.0 to 5.4B inclusive, unless it has changed since we did our Alpha migration.   >=20! > Thanx in advance for any reply:i	 > -Serge-t   --=20 
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:32:34 -0500s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: SMTP Help/ Message-ID: <3DEBC35C.4A5FB474@vl.videotron.ca>e   Don Sykes wrote:R > Error in MX lookup for destination host 210.204.129.7217.220.13.35203.24.88.2624 > .140.20.47. IOSB status: 20    Have you tried g $TCPIP TCPIP> SHOW MX 0 and2 TCPIP>SHOW MX hp.com    + This might yield more detailed information.c   Also try   TCPIP> SHOW ROUTE     
 Then, try 	 $NSLOOKUP0
 > SET TYPE=MX 	 > IBM.COM   M I had a problem where NSlookup worked fine , but TCPIP SHOW MX failed becausetG the route database was incorrect and this is where local MX records are.N stored. SMTP product first checks the local store and if it fails there with a2 bad error, it doesn't continue to the bind server.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:08:22 GMT3( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: SMTP Help+ Message-ID: <3DEBDA4C.1250073F@pacbell.net>c  & Not sure what this is telling me, but:   TCPIP> SHOW MX_RECORD/GATEWAYo3 %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error processing route requestc( -TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found   TCPIP> show mx hp.como.                               BIND MX database   Server:          206.13.28.12e  + Gate address     Preference       Gate nameR  - 192.151.81.14    10               smtp.HP.COMk. 15.45.89.154     30               smtpx.HP.COM0 156.153.255.245  50               palsmtp.HP.COM0 156.153.255.205  50               atlsmtp.HP.COM  +                               BIND databaseh   Server:          206.13.28.12p  + Host address                      Host namen( 192.6.234.9                       HP.COM( 192.6.234.10                      HP.COM( 192.6.118.44                      HP.COM( 192.6.118.97                      HP.COM( 192.151.52.187                    HP.COM( 192.151.52.217                    HP.COM( 192.151.53.86                     HP.COM( 192.6.118.128                     HP.COM( 192.6.234.8                       HP.COM     JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Don Sykes wrote:T > > Error in MX lookup for destination host 210.204.129.7217.220.13.35203.24.88.2624 > > .140.20.47. IOSB status: 20o >  > Have you tried > $TCPIP > TCPIP> SHOW MX > and. > TCPIP>SHOW MX hp.com > - > This might yield more detailed information.M > 
 > Also try >  > TCPIP> SHOW ROUTEt >  > Then, try1 > $NSLOOKUP4 > > SET TYPE=MX0 > > IBM.COM" > O > I had a problem where NSlookup worked fine , but TCPIP SHOW MX failed becausecI > the route database was incorrect and this is where local MX records are-P > stored. SMTP product first checks the local store and if it fails there with a4 > bad error, it doesn't continue to the bind server.     --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)3
 San Francisco0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:21:23 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>7 Subject: Re: SMTP Help? Message-ID: <02b3bb9e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>t  * In message <3DEBADDF.CAEC7566@pacbell.net>3           Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote:r   >  > Any ideas on this ?3* > I'm running Alpha VMS 7.2, TCPIP Ver 5.1 > ; > Beginning on 11-Nov I started getting this error in every  > TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG file.1 > R > Error in MX lookup for destination host 210.204.129.7217.220.13.35203.24.88.2624 > .140.20.47. IOSB status: 203  M Not sure of the cause, but it looks to me like several addresses concatenatedp  
 210.204.129.7 
 217.220.13.35m 203.24.88.26 24.140.20.47  1 Do these look like valid values in a search list?-   > H > Status 20 is a bad parameter (no wonder with an IP address like that).O > Anyway Im still getting my email, but this appears with every email (in every  > log file).< > I tried restarting SMTP, but the messages come back again.( > Is there any point to trying a reboot? >  > Any help is much appreciated.n   --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/(   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:23:00 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: SRM for multiboot8 Message-ID: <sfjnuu43kd9ie4dua4g8n83h121pqi2voc@4ax.com>  O On Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:31:04 -0600, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  wrote:  I >I'm also curious as to what difference is made by the "ostype" variable.sI >I've never had to deal with it, though I may try it if I get the chance.o  N I have had one experience with the os_type variable. I acquired an AlphaServerL 2000 from within my company which had originally been purchased and used forM Digital UNIX. I used it with OpenVMS, with no problems, booting from internalc disks.  L Subsequently, I bought a CIPCA PCI-CI adapter, and connected it to my CI, soK that I could boot from and access disks connected to controllers on the CI.mP After first connecting it, I had no problems accessing the CI disks once VMS wasL booted, however I COULD NOT BOOT VMS FROM A CIPCA-ATTACHED DISK! The devicesK simply did not appear at the >>> SHOW CONFIG prompt. (Once VMS was running,uO booted from an internal disk, then showed up with SHOW DEVICE DUA as expected.)s  N The problem turned out to be the os_type variable. On my system, it was set to= UNIX. Here is a snippet from an email describing the problem:   O This problem has finally been resolved with the help of a CSC internal resource O in the UK who used to work for Compaq field engineering. I described my problemiN to him and he looked through the console output from INIT command, and noticedK an environment variable called os_type which was set to UNIX. (This CPU haspG originally been purchased to run Digital UNIX, and we later acquired itn internally for VMS.)  I After changing this variable from UNIX to VMS, the SHOW CONFIG output nowt@ includes the CIPCA-connected disks. Here is output from console:    P00>>>set os_type vms  P00>>>show config6                          Digital Equipment Corporation2                             AlphaServer 2000 4/200  iI  SRM Console V5.3-2             VMS PALcode V5.56-7, OSF PALcode V1.45-12e  I)  Component      Status          Module ID =  CPU 0             P            B2020-AA DECchip (tm) 21064-3 /  Memory 0          P            B2023-BA 128 MBu/  Memory 1          P            B2023-BA  64 MBi(  I/O                            B2111-AAA                                 dva0.0.0.1000.0         RX26/RX23   h2   Slot  Option                  Hose 0, Bus 0, PCIE     1   NCR 53C810              pka0.7.0.1.0            SCSI Bus ID 7o<                                 dka0.0.0.1.0            RZ28H                                 dka100.1.0.1.0          SEAGATE ST15150NH                                 dka200.2.0.1.0          SEAGATE ST15150NH                                 dka300.3.0.1.0          SEAGATE ST15150N@                                 dka400.4.0.1.0          RZ1BB-CSH                                 dka500.5.0.1.0          SEAGATE ST15150N=                                 dka600.6.0.1.0          RRD43vM     2   Intel 82375                                     Bridge to Bus 1, EISAhI     7   DECchip 21040-AA        ewa0.0.0.7.0            08-00-2B-E5-6A-6BhC     8   CIPCA                   pua.4.0.8.0             CI Bus ID 4u<                                 dua0.1.0.8.0            RA90<                                 dua1.1.0.8.0            RA90<                                 dua10.0.0.8.0           RA90<                                 dua10.1.0.8.0           RA90  M and so on. Before changing os_type to VMS, the SHOW CONFIG line for the CIPCA  showed up only as:  4    8    CIPCA                                          with no devices shown.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------aI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comgI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)aI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 01:54:35 -0800 ) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)h0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0212030154.e98796c@posting.google.com>  w "Jerome" <Jerome.Forissier@removethis.libertysurf.fr> wrote in message news:<newscache$s68y5h$4y7$1@news.tiscali.fr>...a >  > Take a look at:e/ > http://uptimes.wonko.com/stats.php?op=generaleM > ...I'm sure we can make the OpenVMS bar scale much further to the right :-)s  H Cool!. I just threw a 132 day old OpenVMS box at it (our main web serverB that gets all it's spare time used up running a certain Academic's research jobs).u  ' We appear to have hit 100 days average.t  5 I've got a 255 day old Tru64 box I'd like to add too.o  7 The Window(tm) effort speaks volumes for itself really.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:31:14 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project$ Message-ID: <3decea78$1@news.si.com>  I I'd like to encourage everyone to upgrade to V1.3 of the upclient, if youiF haven't done so already.  It adds load and idle time statistics to the uptime reports.k -- sA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comkA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comw= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventI< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:14:04 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: TIFF processing on VMS?/ Message-ID: <3DEBB0FB.A7A92C5C@vl.videotron.ca>i   Suggestion:b  K call up the manufacturer of the scanner and ask them what software could beeK used to handle the very large files their scanner is capable of outputting.   ) Have you tried photoshop on a macintosh ?a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:23:57 -0500+ From: "Chris Moore" <mc.moore@sympatico.ca>h) Subject: Re: Timezone-change observationsS9 Message-ID: <cV4H9.3850$mj2.639932@news20.bellglobal.com>a  K Simple......but pretty much presumes that nothing else in TCPWARE_CONFIGUREk: changes in the 6-month period.......wouldn't THAT be nice?    5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo7 news:d7791aa1.0210271934.10a3b4fc@posting.google.com...u9 peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in messaget1 news:<ErMu9.176047$N_6.2542849@news.chello.at>...aD > Because summertime ended today, I thought I share my observations. > ; > 1) Local Time (SHOW TIME) was correct on VAX and Alpha !!f) > I'm running VMS V7.3 and TCPware V5.6-2lH > but no longer DECdts (which made perfect timezone changes for years !) >r  B why are you doing it the hard way?  all you have to do is set up 2* tcpware_configure.com files, for me it was  7 tcpware_configure.com_edt and tcpware_configure.com_ests  @ a dcl command procedure can be written to run once in the spring< and once in the fall on the appropriate date and time at 2am; and swap in the correct tcpware configure com file and do au simple  
 $ @restart   isn't this simple?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:39:03 -0500e& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Unzip for VMS 4.78 Message-ID: <2hknuu4ui1hq8p4loc8bdqgag3dq1jsv1g@4ax.com>  D On 27 Nov 2002 23:51:55 -0800, jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer) wrote:  B >I need Unzip for VMS 4.7. I know this is a pretty old version butB >perhaps anybody can help me. I need the binary executable because >theres no compiler installed.  M The version of UNZIP for OpenVMS which you can download from Hunter Goatley's N file server at http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?UNZIP doesN include, in the [.VMS-BINARIES] directories, object files compiled on VAX withP VAX C. Whether or not they will work on V4.7 is an exercise you will have to try1 out, I don't have a V4.7 system available to try.s  N You may have to "take apart" LINK.COM and figure out what LINK command to use,; because V4.7 may not have the f$getsyi("HW_MODEL") lexical..I --------------------------------------------------------------------------I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com"I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)@I -------------------------------------------------------------------------b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:33:19 -0500K& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Unzip for VMS 4.78 Message-ID: <usmpuuc8ldllumd36uqk7kskhd33ji7f4j@4ax.com>  K On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:39:03 -0500, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:m  N >The version of UNZIP for OpenVMS which you can download from Hunter Goatley'sO >file server at http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?UNZIP does O >include, in the [.VMS-BINARIES] directories, object files compiled on VAX with Q >VAX C. Whether or not they will work on V4.7 is an exercise you will have to tryt2 >out, I don't have a V4.7 system available to try.  K I found a VMS V4.7 system on our network and talked the system manager into-N creating a temporary account for me. I copied (via DECnet) the following filesM from the ZIP file referenced above (you must be able to UNZIP these somewhere  else):  $      1068  04-17-00 13:12   link.com%     10940  02-21-02 09:17   unzip.hlpr%        21  02-21-02 09:19   unzip.optr.    137216  02-21-02 09:21   unzip.vax_vaxc_olb1     25600  02-21-02 09:21   unzipcli.vax_vaxc_olbe(        24  02-21-02 09:30   unzipsfx.opt1     77824  02-21-02 09:21   unzipsfx.vax_vaxc_olbo)     16582  02-21-02 09:17   unzip_cli.hlpo1     17920  02-21-02 09:21   unzsxcli.vax_vaxc_olbt'        30  05-06-96 14:02   vaxcrtl.opt   M and then modified the LINK.COM until I got it to work. The resulting LINK.COMc is:b  ( $!$ alpha = f$getsyi("HW_MODEL").ge.1024 $!$ if alpha $!$ then        type = "AXP" $!$     opt = ""B $!$ else        if f$search("SYS$SYSTEM:DECC$COMPILER.EXE").nes."" $!$     then type = "VAX_DECC" $!$          opt = ""  $!$     else type = "VAX_VAXC") $!$          opt = ",VAXCRTL.OPT/OPTIONS"r
 $!$     endife	 $!$ endifn $ alpha = 0d $ type = "VAX_VAXC"e $ opt = ",VAXCRTL.OPT/OPTIONS"1 $ write sys$output "Linking UNZIP.''type'_EXE..." M $ LINK/NOTRACE /EXE=UNZIP.'type'_EXE UNZIP.'type'_OLB/INCLUDE=UNZIP/LIBRARY,-""                 unzip.opt/OPT'opt'5 $ write sys$output "Linking UNZIP_CLI.''type'_EXE..."o= $ LINK/NOTRACE /EXE=UNZIP_CLI.'type'_EXE unzipcli.'type'_OLB-uJ                 /INCLUDE=(UNZIP,VMS_UNZIP_CMDLINE,VMS_UNZIP_CLD)/LIBRARY,-;                 UNZIP.'type'_OLB/LIBRARY,unzip.opt/OPT'opt'o4 $ write sys$output "Linking UNZIPSFX.''type'_EXE...") $ LINK/NOTRACE /EXE=UNZIPSFX.'type'_EXE - G         UNZIPSFX.'type'_OLB/INCLUDE=UNZIP/LIBRARY,unzipsfx.opt/OPT'opt'e8 $ write sys$output "Linking UNZIPSFX_CLI.''type'_EXE..."@ $ LINK/NOTRACE /EXE=UNZIPSFX_CLI.'type'_EXE unzsxcli.'type'_OLB-J                 /INCLUDE=(UNZIP,VMS_UNZIP_CMDLINE,VMS_UNZIP_CLD)/LIBRARY,-9         UNZIPSFX.'type'_OLB/LIBRARY,unzipsfx.opt/OPT'opt'  $ exit  : (V4.7 does not have the HW_MODEL value nor does it support IF...THEN...ELSE...ENDIF.)  ? Running the modified LINK.COM on my system generated no errors:u   $ @linkl Linking UNZIP.VAX_VAXC_EXE...f! Linking UNZIP_CLI.VAX_VAXC_EXE...a  Linking UNZIPSFX.VAX_VAXC_EXE...$ Linking UNZIPSFX_CLI.VAX_VAXC_EXE...  N and the resulting UNZIP_CLI (which is the one with VMS-style qualifiers that I prefer) seems to work:  1 $ unzip == "$xxxx:[xxxxxx]UNZIP_CLI.VAX_VAXC_EXE"  $ unzip /list unzip " Archive:  xxxx:[xxxxxx]UNZIP.ZIP;1    Length     Date   Time    Name   --------    ----   ----    ----$      1068  04-17-00 13:12   link.com%     10940  02-21-02 09:17   unzip.hlpo%        21  02-21-02 09:19   unzip.opt .    137216  02-21-02 09:21   unzip.vax_vaxc_olb1     25600  02-21-02 09:21   unzipcli.vax_vaxc_olbo(        24  02-21-02 09:30   unzipsfx.opt1     77824  02-21-02 09:21   unzipsfx.vax_vaxc_olbt)     16582  02-21-02 09:17   unzip_cli.hlph1     17920  02-21-02 09:21   unzsxcli.vax_vaxc_olbe'        30  05-06-96 14:02   vaxcrtl.opto#  --------                   -------n$    287225                   10 files   YMMV.-I -------------------------------------------------------------------------tI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comsI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)rI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2002 02:17:33 -0800t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> + Subject: Re: Wanted: Second hand Alpha DS10r) Message-ID: <asfbvt0127a@drn.newsguy.com>M  J In article <htsF9.23045$GR5.6771@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Mark says... >o/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messagei4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEGGGCAA.tom@kednos.com... >> http://www.islandco.com/r >gM >He said he was in the UK. Are you certain that Island has an export license?y  I Island supply to the UK with 48 hour delivery if you want. Even will come  complete with UK power cord.   >> >-----Original Message-----8 >> >From: Mike Knowles [mailto:mike@quotelinedirect.com]- >> >Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 9:16 AMS >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + >> >Subject: Wanted: Second hand Alpha DS10i >> > >> > >> >Hi >> >J >> >Can anybody point me in the right direction for finding second hand orA >> >refurbished Compaq Alpha kit? I am based in the UK. We want anD >> >redundant server for restoration and verification of DLT backups >> >
 >> >Thanks >> > >> >MK >> > >> >---o* >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).E >> >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002w >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.e= >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eD >> Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >> >a >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:28:46 GMTy4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>+ Subject: Re: Wanted: Second hand Alpha DS10t0 Message-ID: <3DEBDE11.2515D1B9@blueyonder.co.uk>   Alan Greig wrote:h > L > In article <htsF9.23045$GR5.6771@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Mark says... > > 1 > >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messageu6 > >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEGGGCAA.tom@kednos.com... > >> http://www.islandco.com/r > >sO > >He said he was in the UK. Are you certain that Island has an export license?* > K > Island supply to the UK with 48 hour delivery if you want. Even will comep > complete with UK power cord. >   nJ Seconded. An ex-colleague purchased a DS10L from Island a few months back.( Ordered  Friday. Delivered to UK Monday.   -- l tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk t  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.668 ************************